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NWX-WOODROW WILSON CENTER (US) Moderator: Drew Sample ...

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NWX-WOODROW WILSON CENTER (US)Moderator: Drew Sample06-13-13/10:00 am CTConfirmation # 1330255Page 3North Korea was attempted to move away from the current isolation from theinternational community and (unintelligible) and these are the domesticeconomics differences.Drew Sample:Well so you mentioned China there my understanding is that these meetingswere very much about inter-Korean relations, this was Korea, it's a Korearelations.Does the U.S. play - can the U.S. play any role here, can China play any rolein these talks or helping to bring these two countries together?(Jong Dae Shin): I think both it's China is scared to, you know, take (unintelligible) from the(unintelligible) to Asia and Iraq, China (unintelligible)...((Crosstalk))(Jong Dae Shin): ...Xi, Jinping, Xi Jinping at the (unintelligible) China the main agenda will be,you know, at the U.S. China summit the main agenda was on the NorthKorean nuclear issue.The (unintelligible) to coordinate the (unintelligible) of the (unintelligible).You know there are two regions on the other end, you know, there are tworegion the U.S. (unintelligible) Korean posts will be set as a priority I think, Ithink that way.Drew Sample:The U.S. can do a lot I think to support President, you know, to support inter-Korean dialogue and especially President (Parks) new trust (politics) morethan just express our support.


NWX-WOODROW WILSON CENTER (US)Moderator: Drew Sample06-13-13/10:00 am CTConfirmation # 1330255Page 4I think it would also be good to begin exploring the possibility of negotiationsourselves of course in close cooperation with Seoul.(Jong Dae Shin): Basically I wonder with your plan initially was (unintelligible) talking fromthe beginning. A (unintelligible) as I mentioned and those (unintelligible) firstmeaningful talks in the six years just ahead of (unintelligible) U.S. and Chinaand it's - and North Korea offered to (unintelligible) to question of SouthKorea.Then the (unintelligible) in U.S. (unintelligible) President Obama and ChinesePresident Xi Jinping to praise the two sides of reaching through agreement notto tolerate a nuclear (unintelligible) North Korea.Well (unintelligible) to see (unintelligible) North Korea wanted to save(unintelligible) or was looking for a certain (unintelligible) anyway(unintelligible) if it should be a reliable negotiating (unintelligible) but once atthe summit was over (unintelligible) one video after and after.Drew Sample:Yes, yes that's true. So do you think that this new or more unified positionbetween the U.S. and China that they expressed at this summit on the NorthKorea nuclear issue does that make these sort of meetings more likely or lesslikely?Does that help to bring North Korea to the table or do they feel pressure thatthey need to react against that?(Jong Dae Shin): At the moment I'm not sure.Drew Sample:Yes, yes okay.


NWX-WOODROW WILSON CENTER (US)Moderator: Drew Sample06-13-13/10:00 am CTConfirmation # 1330255Page 5(James Person):I, you know, speculating on North Korea always problematic.(Jong Dae Shin): I know who is to say.Drew Sample:Yes, yes so (James) then you mentioned trust politics, the South Korean, thenew South Korean model of politics. Can you explain that a little bit?(James Person):I think Professor (Shin) will do better to do that. He and his colleague - wellhis colleague who is now Minister of Unification with one of the architectsand I know that they're very close and I'm certain that he - that just wassomething that you had a hand in so perhaps you would be...(Jong Dae Shin): Yes really frankly I think (unintelligible) not clearly established(unintelligible) government suggested (unintelligible) but we can see that(unintelligible) patients and time.I think (unintelligible) politic based on the piece for wisdom or (unintelligible)I think anyway (unintelligible) for the trust a building process on the(unintelligible) is practical and balanced (unintelligible).But the (unintelligible) at the moment might be considered as just a(unintelligible) process of (unintelligible) Korea to Korean - to Korea(unintelligible) plus the building process (unintelligible) I think.(James Person):Professor (Shin) mentioned, you know, the pragmatism of trust politics andprevious administrations during the sunshine policy for example. We're just soeager to engage the North that, you know, the North would just sendwhomever and South Korea would - there was no concern aboutrepresentation or have an equal party sitting, you know, at the tablenegotiating.


NWX-WOODROW WILSON CENTER (US)Moderator: Drew Sample06-13-13/10:00 am CTConfirmation # 1330255Page 6And so in many cases you would have these negotiators from North Koreawho would then have to go back and get their marching orders ready, anythingthat was, you know, they weren't authorized to make any real decisions at thattime.And, you know, as part of this pragmatism the part that the government wantto make sure that, you know, that - they want to actually normalize the processof negotiating with North Korea on normal - I mean on more officialstandards.So it's not just we are so eager to talk with you that we'll accept anyone thatyou send now it's look, we are going to - if we're holding inter-governmentaltalks we're going to hold inter-governmental talks properly.Meaning officials at the same level will be meeting. So initially, you know,South Koreans - South Korea proposed sending the Minister of Unification(unintelligible).He was a former scholar here at (unintelligible) and Professor at theUniversity of North Korean studies where Professor (Shin) teaches. The NorthKoreans then responded by the initial, you know, South Korea had hoped thatthe director of the united front department of the Korean workers party wouldbe sent a man called (Kin Yung Gung).They sent - they proposed sending his deputy instead. North Korea or SouthKorea then responded by saying okay well if you're sending a deputy thenwe're going to send a Vice Minister.(Jong Dae Shin): Right, of course.


NWX-WOODROW WILSON CENTER (US)Moderator: Drew Sample06-13-13/10:00 am CTConfirmation # 1330255Page 7(James Person):It may seem like a formality but this is, you know it's important to get things,you know, started on the right foot. The North Koreans then claimed that aVice Minister is to low that they're - in fact they alleged I think on Thursdaythat the South Korean government doesn't understand the North Koreansystem because the director of this department of united front department (KinYung Gung) is higher than a Minister, (unintelligible).So they claimed that the meetings then would have been unequal had he sat atthe negotiating table with South Korea's Minister of Unification and this wastheir pretext for pulling out of the talks but of course they're blaming Seoul forderailing the talks this time.One question that, you know, some people are raising now is, you know, whatdoes this - is this right to do should South Korea - Professor (Shin) maybe youcould make, you know, some comments on this.Is it right for South Korea to stick to the formalities like this, I mean is it soimportant given the fact that we have so much - so many things on the tablewe have the (Kae Song) industrial complex, you know, and a lot of moneybeing lost by the company that invested into this complex.You know, the fear of that the machinery, which has been sitting idle forweeks already is going to be damaged, it's rusting. The desire to resume toursto the Diamond Mountain Resort or the (Qi Gong) Mountain Resort and thenof course the resumption of family reunions.Given these three important issues on the table should Seoul really focus somuch on this formality of having equal representation at the table or I mean isit that important to renew or to create a, you know, a different standard for


NWX-WOODROW WILSON CENTER (US)Moderator: Drew Sample06-13-13/10:00 am CTConfirmation # 1330255Page 8inter-Korean discussion even if it means these important issues won't beresolved right away?(Jong Dae Shin): Yes, you mentioned the - we can criticize the Korean Administration(unintelligible) within North Korea in terms of the, you know, mentioned we Ithink we have to draw a more broader picture to facilitate (unintelligible) andreconciliation on their current peninsula on the part of the (unintelligible)petition compared to the North Korea.But personally I think Korean Administration (unintelligible) also we canunderstand why (unintelligible) balance the (unintelligible) based on thecriticizing previous tradition of the inter-Korean (unintelligible) I think.Drew Sample:Well (James) you mentioned sort of how that talk fell apart so quickly on whatcould seem to be sort of a lesser issue of what level of diplomat they'resending.Is this typical of these talks I mean I know that they've held these talks beforein the past. It's been six years now since the last one but do they - do thesetalks typically stop and start, start and stop like this?Are they planned and do they fall apart or is this sort of unique?(Jong Dae Shin): Basically I think...(James Person): I think there have been 21 (unintelligible) is it the number 21?(Jong Dae Shin): The 20 - the number 21, there was - had 21.Drew Sample:Twenty-one talks between North and South Korea in the past yes.


NWX-WOODROW WILSON CENTER (US)Moderator: Drew Sample06-13-13/10:00 am CTConfirmation # 1330255Page 9(Jong Dae Shin): Yes, yes and the Minister level.(James Person):The Minister level, they sort of intermittently they - not regularly they start upagain and then they stop and...(Jong Dae Shin): (Unintelligible) at Administration it really be a first talk not (unintelligible)the second.(James Person):Right, right so they're not - yes so it's, you know, a new start so we're pressingthe reset button this isn't the 22d inter-governmental talk, this is the first underthis new, you know, this new approach to a bit more pragmatic approach thantraditional.Drew Sample:Did this one seem different from those talks in the past? I mean you talkedabout the issues that were on the table, the (Kae Song) plant, the resort, I meanthese are pretty substantive issues.Is this the kind of - is this the material that they would discuss in these pasttalks? Were those past talks more about nuclear talks or is this set of talks, didit seem to be at some sort of break through?(Jong Dae Shin): Yes it's beyond the agenda to be able to discuss the in the (unintelligible) butKorean government including (unintelligible) kind of a continuant of policy inthe case of North Korea nuclear (unintelligible).Of course at the same time South Korean government (unintelligible) ofpolicy. Almost all Korean Administrations including (unintelligible)Administration tried to combine (unintelligible) policy not just a one sidepolicy but in the right of several Administrations (unintelligible) now


NWX-WOODROW WILSON CENTER (US)Moderator: Drew Sample06-13-13/10:00 am CTConfirmation # 1330255Page 10(unintelligible) Administration realizes that the - is basically beyond the inter-Korean level.The nuclear (unintelligible) we have to - you have to emphasize this(unintelligible) North Korea (unintelligible) but at the same time we tried tomake a reconciliation (unintelligible) North Korea (unintelligible)Administration (unintelligible) and try to at this point (unintelligible)...(James Person):And that reconciliation...(Jong Dae Shin): ...contrary to the (unintelligible) Administration (unintelligible) theAdministration conditioned this matter over a nuclear (unintelligible) NorthKorea.(James Person):...and, you know, as far as this process of reconciliation getting back toreestablishing the case on the (Kae Song) complex and perhaps reopening theresort, the Diamond Mountain Resort and getting back to the status quo and ispart of the thing and then building from there.But, you know, it's interesting the North Koreans it seems were expectingimproved relations. When I was in (Pen Yung) last year well I had anopportunity when I was in North Korea last summer I had an opportunity totravel to this Diamond Mountain Resort.And I spoke with - went into a shop in this complex and it was being operatedby a businessman from Hong Kong. And we asked what kind of business hehad and he said, well right now we have all Chinese tourists coming.But the North Koreans only gave me a contract until the end of, you know,2012 he said, you know, a short-term contract. And I asked him why and he


NWX-WOODROW WILSON CENTER (US)Moderator: Drew Sample06-13-13/10:00 am CTConfirmation # 1330255Page 11said well because they're expecting after the election in South Korea and afterthe Inauguration that relations are going to improve.Drew Sample:Interesting.(James Person):Fully expecting south Koreans to return to the resort and keep in mind this isthe resort where five years ago I think next week a tourist was killed. She wasshot while - very early in the morning she went out for a stroll along the beachand - but it was an area that was closed off I think it was and there were clearsigns - there were signs clearly stating do not cross in this area.But she strolled on the beach and was killed by North Korean military.Tourists didn't go after that so five years this with the exception of, you know,a handful of Chinese tourists and, you know, and others it's been pretty muchclosed down.And but the North Koreans were fully expecting that relations would improvewith South Korea after the Inauguration...Drew Sample:Right, right.(James Person):...of, you know, the President in South Korea of the new President. And thatthis duty free shop there would return to, you know, a South Korean company.Drew Sample:Yes interesting.((Crosstalk))


NWX-WOODROW WILSON CENTER (US)Moderator: Drew Sample06-13-13/10:00 am CTConfirmation # 1330255Page 12(James Person):So I mean it did - it revealed a lot about, you know, the thinking that, youknow, if they wouldn't give a contract a longer contract to this Chinesebusiness vendor, you know, it suggests that they were fully...Drew Sample:Yes of course, okay so then if there is this expectation at least from the Northand I gather a sort of a hope at least from the South that relations will improvedo we think that these meetings will be rescheduled?Do we think that this is not the end that this was really sort of amisunderstanding and that they'll sort this out they'll get meetings rescheduledand relations will at least get back to that status quo, (Kae Song) will reopen?(James Person):Well I think Professor (Shin) made a very good point where, you know, innoting that we really have to question the sincerity of the North Koreans whengoing into this were they just creating a way, you know, after the unfavorableoutcome perhaps of the Obama (unintelligible) meeting where both countriesaffirmed their support for a de-nuclearized Korean potential.That North Korea, you know, then tried to find a way to sort of back pedal andreevaluate things. So you have to wonder how sincere they were going intothis but I think all the same I think this is more a delay.I'm relatively optimistic that there will be inter-Korean dialogue soon, youknow, that these issues will be resolved.(Jong Dae Shin): Basically I would (unintelligible) but I think North Korea's proposal to theinter-Korean (unintelligible) basically comes from their external concentrationnot just compliant to the inter-Korean, inter-Korean relations.


NWX-WOODROW WILSON CENTER (US)Moderator: Drew Sample06-13-13/10:00 am CTConfirmation # 1330255Page 13As I mentioned North Korea proposed a (unintelligible) timing of the U.S.,China summit and Korea, China summit three and seeing U.S. and Chinacommitment on the nuclear (unintelligible) the North could have a -intentionally could I'm not sure to the (unintelligible).We can assume that, assume that but in a sense North Korea can see(unintelligible) I think why didn't North Korea call it off government togovernment meeting and to Korea.I assume that the South Korea did not want to hold annual ceremonies thisyear commemorating inter-Korean joint statement in 2000, June 15...(James Person):Fifteen, this Saturday would be the 13th anniversary...(Jong Dae Shin): ...right, right.(James Person):...the first inter-Korean summit.(Jong Dae Shin): ...I mean North Korea is one of the initial (unintelligible) for launching theSouth, North posts was to take the initiative into Korean relations by holdingjoint ceremonies so that (unintelligible) private organization in the South.But following the (unintelligible) meeting in North I mean between South andNorth, the North knew that the South Korean government did not allowinteractions with South Korean organizations.So it (unintelligible) allegiance there to be lost esteem for the meeting.(Unintelligible) of the North Korea demand as a ploy to (unintelligible) in theSouth because many North Korea city close attended gathering.


NWX-WOODROW WILSON CENTER (US)Moderator: Drew Sample06-13-13/10:00 am CTConfirmation # 1330255Page 14But (unintelligible) North Korea pull out from the meeting and came from theU.S. and China (unintelligible) commitment to the new (unintelligible) inNorth Korea in the summit meeting as I mentioned.Seeing U.S. and China commitment on this communication they decided tostop there. But (unintelligible) I think the inter-Korean relations really appearsto long time standing as I mentioned (James) on the other end, on the oppositeaspect of the things we can say that the stand off on the status of the two sidenegotiators, the negotiators are disappointed many South Korean includinginternational community to affect the (unintelligible) or the cancellation(unintelligible) stability on the peninsula.By now many other expert or the inter-Korean relations might listen to the(unintelligible) or crisis of diplomacy, why the South responded with the(unintelligible) but South Korea comment had said that the (unintelligible)always open but the two are (unintelligible) in finding ways to ironing out thedifferences on the status of their delegates.But (unintelligible) key players in this (unintelligible) conditions across theKorean peninsula not South Korea frankly. Anyway we could say that theinter-Korea relations will not become any worst at this point.Drew Sample:I suppose that's a reason to be optimistic.(Jong Dae Shin): Because inter, you know, because, you know, inter-Korean relations do not(unintelligible) justify the South and North and they are (unintelligible) andthere's somewhat different there.


NWX-WOODROW WILSON CENTER (US)Moderator: Drew Sample06-13-13/10:00 am CTConfirmation # 1330255Page 15(Unintelligible) include the petitions of the U.S. and China and see nuclear(unintelligible) particularly as agenda. So I think in the near future to Korea(unintelligible).And this month was scheduled to meet the (unintelligible) maybe at thesummit I think to a summit try to (unintelligible) engage in dialogue again.Drew Sample:Well I hope this, I hope that you're right I hope that those summit talksbetween South Korea and China do stimulate some more talks there andcontinue to move things forward.I think that wraps things up for me unless you have anything else that youwanted to add. Great well again this talk was on the record and anyone whowould use any quotes for stories please feel free to.We'll be having a Korea summit at the Wilson Center tomorrow, which pressare also welcome to come to and for now thank you very much for attending.Thank you to both of you and we'll talk soon.END

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