Adolf Hitler's Table Talk-1941-1944

222 INTERVIEW WITH

222 INTERVIEW WITH HINDENBURG different way than we imagined—and that, in fact, we weren't so far removed from one another. He promised me that, in any case, he would do what he could for me with Field- Marshal Hindenburg. "It won't be easy," he added, "for the 'old gentleman's' habits of thinking and feeling are in revolt against all you represent." I must recognise that Meissner was the first man who made me understand Hindenburg's exact situation. In whom could the Field-Marshal find support ? In any case, not among the German Nationalists, who were a lot of incompetents. He was not disposed to violate the constitution. So what could we do? It required a great effort from him to collaborate with certain Social-Democrats and certain representatives of the Centre. He also had an aversion for Hugenberg (who had one day described him as a "traitor" for having maintained Meissner in his job). Hindenburg invited me: "Herr Hitler, I wish to hear from your own mouth a summary of your ideas." It is almost impossible, across such a gap, to communicate to others one's own conception of the world. I tried to establish contact with the Field-Marshal by having recourse to comparisons of a military nature. Connection was fairly rapidly made with the soldier, but the difficulty began the instant there was a question of extending our dawning comprehension to politics. When I'd finished my summary, I felt that I'd moved Hindenburg and that he was yielding. At once he made this a pretext for reproaching me with an incident that had occurred in East Prussia: "But your young people have no right to behave as they do. Not long ago, at Tannenberg, they shouted out, so that I could hear: 'Wake up, wake up!' And yet I'm not asleep!" Certain charitable souls had given "the old gentleman" to suppose that the shout was meant for him personally, whereas in reality our supporters were shouting: "Wake up, Germany!" (Deutschland, erwache—a Nazi slogan). Shortly after this interview, Hindenburg informed me that he would consult me whenever there was a decision to take. But the influence of the enemies I numbered amongst those about me remained so strong that even in 1933 I couldn't see him except in the presence of Papen. One day, Papen

VON PAPEN—ANTONESCU 223 being absent, I appeared in the Field-Marshal's presence by myself. "Why is Herr von Papen always with you?" he asked. "But it's jo« I want to talk to!" When Papen came back, he must have regretted the trip that had called him away. "The old gentleman" regarded Papen as a sort of greyhound, but I think he was fond of him. Papen knew admirably how to handle him. We owe a debt of gratitude to Papen, by the way, for it was he who opened the first breach in the sacred constitution. It's obvious one couldn't expect more from him than that. Unless Antonescu gains the ear of the people, he's undone. The commander who has no troops behind him cannot maintain himself for long. It's thanks to the People's Party that Ataturk assured his rule. It's the same thing in Italy. If Antonescu were to disappear to-day, there would be a terrible struggle in the Army between the claimants to his succession. That wouldn't happen if there were an organisation that could impose his successor. In his place, I'd have made the Legion the basis of power, after first shooting Horia Sima. Without a solid political basis, it's not possible either to settle a question of succession or to guarantee the normal administration of the State. From this point of view, the Rumanians are in a state of inferiority in relation to the Hungarians. The Hungarian State has the advantages of a parliament. For us, such a thing would be intolerable; but theirs is one whose executive power is, in practice, independent. Papen's misfortune was that he had no support. We were not strong enough to shore him up. Anyway, I wouldn't have done it, for Papen was not our man. The sum total of the deficits of the Reich and the German States was reaching the yearly figure of five and a half thousand millions. On top of that, we had to pay five thousand millions to our enemies. "Marvellous result!" Papen said to me, after his return from Geneva, speaking of the hundred and fifty thousand millions that appeared on paper. "With that, on the 3Oth of January, we'll have eighty-three millions in the Reich's