4th Derby (Derwent) Centenary Book

4th Derby (Derwent) 

Centenary

Page 2 of 156 

Contents 

1. Introduction 

2. Letter from The Chief Scout, Peter Duncan 

3. Forward by Ron Adamson 

4. “In Retrospect”- C.J. Bennett 

5. Homes of the Derwents 

6. The building of Derwent Hall 

7. Letter from Baden Powell 

8. Through the Years by ‘The Trek-Cart’ 

9. Songs and poems 

10. Memories and stories 

11. Excerpts from editions of ‘Derwent Green’ 

12. Pictures paint a thousand words! 

13. Camps 

14. The Centenary

Page 3 of 156 

Introduction 

The first One Hundred Years 

Hopefully we have managed to put together a varied mixture of history, photographs, stories and 

memories of former Members to portray the 4th DERBY (DERWENT) SCOUT GROUP over the past 

one hundred years. The book is only a summary of events, activities, and recollections, but BE 

PREPARED to reminisce. 

Our sincere thanks to all the former Members who forwarded pictures, stories and their memories 

for inclusion.

Page 4 of 156 

This photo is believed to be the presentation of the colours to Douglas Foxwell. 

D Foxwell (the founder of the group)(Centre) left for London in 1910 - this photo was taken Nov 

1910. 

The colours (at rear) were embroidered by mothers of the boys and presented in 1910. 

This book tells the life of the 4th Derby (Derwent) Scout Group from their first days in 1908 up to 

100 years later. A lot of things have happened over the years and hopefully with this book we can 

bring back some of the good times (and bad times) that you as former members of the group can 

recall and remember with fond memories. If you were not a former member of the group but were 

part of the scouting family hopefully this book will bring back memories of your time as a rover, 

scout, cub, beaver or leader. 

A lot of the pictures and information in this book are from the 4th Derby’s archives, but some of 

them are from former scouts and leaders that remember their times within the Derwent family. 

I would like to thank those former members for their valuable memories and pictures.

Letter from The Chief Scout 

Peter Duncan 

Page 5 of 156

Page 6 of 156 

Forward by Ron Adamson 

The 4th Derby (Derwent) Scout Group is among the oldest 

in the world. It has been continuously running since 1908, 

when Douglas Foxwell started the group. It has continued 

its magnificent record of scouting activities right up to 

present day. 

The group’s first headquarters were in rooms at All Saints 

church house on Full Street in Derby. They also had use of a 

strip of land that ran down to the river and this is where the 

(Derwent) part of the group’s name comes from. They had 

many FIQ’s over the 

years which even 

included the home 

of one of our most 

famous 

scoutmasters, Capt. 

C.J. Bennett. An 

extensive new housing scheme called for the demolition of 

Capt. Bennett’s house and for his large garden to become a 

housing estate. The assistant Scouter at the time was 

Reginald Treadgold, a house agent and civil engineer. He 

drew up some plans for a permanent HQ and in the 

meantime the group were able to buy a small triangular field 

at the top of the cinder path behind Normanton St. Giles 

church for £75. This was much less than its real value but it 

was part of the Austin estate. 

Mr Austin lived in the large house nearby. He owned the provision store in the Market Place and he 

was a churchwarden in St. Giles’s Church. Captain Bennett was the other churchwarden. After Mr 

Austin’s death, his widow allowed us to have the field at this very nominal sum. The HQ was built by 

the Scouts and their parents. It was started in 1930 and completed in 1936. 

In June 1910 a contingent of the Troop journeyed to London for King Edward’s Funeral and in the 

London newspapers appeared the following. 

“It was noted that Boy Scouts rendered most valuable and unselfish service. One Troop had come 

all the way from Derby with a view to seeing the procession. Finding themselves at an awkward 

corner where people were fainting, as an onlooker put it “wholesale”, they gave up all hope of 

seeing anything and devoted their whole attention to giving first aid.”

Page 7 of 156 

It was, in the late autumn of 1910 that Mrs Spendlove, 

mother of P.L.C. Spendlove, who in December obtained 

the Silver wolf (one of the highest awards a scout could 

get), the first awarded in the Troop, worked and 

presented the Troop’s colours, which were later 

dedicated in All Saint’ 

church. The picture opposite shows the troops colours 

being presented to SM Douglas Foxwell prior to his move 

to Canada. SM Foxwell donated a trophy to the District 

to be presented for scouting skills. The Foxwell trophy is 

still used today. 

The group has been on numerous camps 

and expedition’s, these include World 

Jamborees, trips to Europe, Rallies and 

numerous group camps and treks. The 

scout master for many years was Capt. CJ 

Bennett, CJ ended up living in part of the 

HQ in his final years after his house was 

demolished. His rooms were at the far end 

of the building and the walls were covered 

in pictures of the group and the group’s 

members. The members of the group were 

so proud of their group and of CJ as their 

Scout Master, even when they were away 

or had left the area they still remembered 

their old group. 

Some of them even sent telegrams on the 

group’s birthday. 

The hall was used by the Home Guard during the war for drill, and the Capt. Mannering of the day 

could be observed through an open door. They carried wooden rifles, as there was a shortage of

Page 8 of 156 

real Enfields. The corridor was converted into a small arms pistol range, with sandbags near the 

present activity room door. 

In 1951 we had what we can only 

think of as one of our greatest 

Akela’s. Ada Perkins came to us 

and stayed with us for almost 50 

years (although not always as 

Akela.) Ada’s Daughter, Angela 

was involved with the group and 

helped to run the Polaris explorer 

scouts. Ada is remembered at 

each meeting by the plaque that 

is displayed on the HQ wall. The 

picture to the right shows Ada 

and some of her many cubs in 

1964. During her time as Akela, 

Ada assisted in taking the group 

on three visits to Holland.

Page 9 of 156 

Where they made some great friends and struck up a friendship with a Dutch group which resulted 

in some Dutch scouts staying with Ada and her family for a short while. 

Over the years the group has 

won trophies galore, these include winning The Foxwell Trophy on at least 6 occasions. 

The Schumacher cup and numerous 

other trophies, too many to actually 

list here. The photo on the left 

shows the winners of the Foxwell 

trophy in 1961. The last time the 

group won the Foxwell was 

2004. 

The group has travelled all over the 

world and been to so many 

different events it would be 

impossible to detail every single 

one of them. They were at King 

Edwards’s funeral, Charles and Di’s 

wedding, No10 Downing Street. 

They have had dinner on the roof of Baden Powell House and have visited the Mayors Parlour. 

The group has had many ups and downs through the years but has never actually stopped 

running. In some form or other the group has battled on.

Page 10 of 156 

In Retrospect 

“In Retrospect” 

Written by C.J. Bennett for “The Derwent green” magazine Feb 1946. 

When Douglas Foxwell founded the 4th Derby in 1908 and obtained for headquarters the use of All 

Saints Church House in Full Street which had a piece of grounds running down to the river for 

outside activities (which accounts for the “Derwent” in its title), by no stretch of the imagination 

would it have occurred to him that 37 years later his Troop would be carrying on, still vigorous and 

still keeping to the old standards which marked the foundation upon which it was built up in its early 

days. 

He had no idea that in 1911 he would emigrate to Canada, and when in that year he persuaded me 

to keep the troop going until a successor could be found to take his place, I certainly never expected 

that I should be carrying on in 1946!! 

It was in the rifle range in Full St that contingents of Derby and District Scouts, in 1914, collected to 

sleep the night in order to march in the early hours to Little Eaton to relieve the night gang guarding 

the Waterworks. 

Troop birthday that year saw the formation of the Parents Council, a body which has been of 

estimable value throughout the years, and has never failed to lend a hand in helping forward the 

interests of the troop, and there is no doubt that without their help in providing funds, the 

achievement of our headquarters building would have been impossible.


In 1915 the Full St headquarters was found to be inadequate owing to increased numbers due to 

Scout war activities, and the use of the Paintworks in Burton Road was arranged. It was sometimes 

known as the “swimming baths” or “bathing pool” though the leakages in the roof were never 

enough to damp the ardour of the 130 members to which the troop had swelled. 

1919 saw another move and a three storied house in Northumberland Street seemed to provide an 

ideal H.Q. and was occupied until 1922, when a temporary accommodation was found at 

“Friarsfield”, Duffield Rd. 

In 1923 my own removal to Normanton Cottage, with the additional use of Normanton Old Sunday 

School, provided us with the means of carrying on, and old members will recollect some strenuous 

games of football on the ‘patch’. 

Through the years the troop has taken its part in many District activities and county events, and its 

members have been present at the International Rallies and World Wide Jamborees and have 

foregathered with boys of all nations, classes and colours. Two memorable events are the holiday in 

France in 1927 and the trek in Normandy from Cherbourg in 1934. Much can be written of Easter 

and Whitsun camps and of summer treks, and just a mention of them will bring back to old members 

memories of joyous scouting activities, and if the old trek carts could speak they would tell 

numerous stories of happenings and difficulties always overcome with a smile and a whistle. 

A red letter occasion took place in 1929 when the troop’s 21st birthday was celebrated by a dinner 

at the Assembly Rooms, Derby. Some 250 Rovers, Scouts, Cubs, Parents and guests took part. Our 

founder Douglas Foxwell, was present, as also were the Deputy Mayor and Mayoress, the County 

and District Commissioners and a number of friends and supporters of the Troop. 

Of all the Troop’s activities throughout the years, surely the building of its headquarters stands out 

as the greatest achievement to which it has attained, but the story of that would occupy more space 

than is at my disposal and all that can be added is that the Hall (the building of which commenced in 

1930) was declared open by the Mayor of Derby and was dedicated by the Provost of Derby on 

November 2nd 1935, and the addition of the patrol rooms and store room was completed for 

occupation in 1939. 

Through the war years activities have been carried on as far as possible on the old lines. Easter and 

Whitsun camps have been successfully held at Sandybrook Hall and Mackworth, but the annual trek 

had to be given up and scrub burning in the woods at Foston and farm work at Longford and in the 

Foston area have been the summer holiday activity. A new experience of a Christmas holiday activity 

in 1943 and 1944 took the form of tramping in the Peak District, with the Chapel-en-le-Frith Scout 

hut as headquarters. 

I have greatly exceeded the space given me, and realise the wealth of material that the happenings 

of the Troop would provide, if one of the older members would take on the job of writing its history. 

Perhaps, sometime, someone with a literary bent will be forthcoming. 

C.J. Bennett

Homes of the Derwents 

Page 12 of 156


Homes of the 4th Derby 

Many groups don’t actually move from their original home. The same cannot be said of the 4lh. The 

group started out on the banks of the River Derwent (hence the name (Derwent) in the middle of 

the group’s name), in a hall let to them by All Saints Church. 

All Saints Church House, Full St 1908-1915 

In 1915 the Full St headquarters was found to be inadequate owing to increased numbers due to 

Scout war activities, and the use of the Paintworks in Burton Road was arranged. It was sometimes 

known as the “swimming baths” or “bathing pool” though the leakages in the roof were never 

enough to damp the ardour of the 130 members to which the troop had swelled 

Paintworks, Burton Road 1915-1919 

1919 saw another move and a three storied house in Northumberland Street seemed to provide an 

ideal H.Q. 

3 storey house, Northumberland Street 1919-1922 

1922 saw another move only this time it was only a temporary one, to Friarsfield on Duffield Road. 

Friarsfield. Duffield Road 1922-1923 

Normanton cottage/Normanton old Sunday School 1923-1935 An extensive new housing scheme 

called for the demolition of Captain Bennett's house and for his large garden to become a housing 

estate. Also arising at this time was the desire to have a real scout headquarters. The assistant 

Scouter was Reginald Treadgold, a house agent and civil engineer. He drew up some plans and in the 

meantime we were able to buy a small triangular field at the top of the cinder path behind 

Normanton St. Giles church for £75. This was much less than its real value but it was part of the 

Austin estate. Mr Austin lived in the large house nearby. He owned the provision store in the Market 

Place and he was a churchwarden in St. Giles’s Church. Captain Bennett was the other 

churchwarden. After Mr Austin's death, his widow allowed us to have the field at this very nominal 

sum. I was interested in surveying and I had assisted Mr Treadgold on one or two of his land agent 

jobs, so I assisted again in making a proper plan of the field and working out where the buildings 

would be erected and a good route for the land drains which were thought to be necessary. The 

intention was to do as much of the work as possible ourselves. To gain some initial experience we 

set about a brick building, which was intended originally, I think, as a Rover Den. Meanwhile it was 

to be a store for tools and materials used in the main building. 

(This information taken from Harold Winfield memories, read more of them further on in the book.)

Own Headquarters. Coleridge Street 1935-present day 

Page 14 of 156

The Building of Derwent Hall 

Page 15 of 156


The Building of the new HQ 

Our HQ was originally was based on Full Street in Derby in the All Saints Church House. This was 

sited next to the River Derwent, hence the word (Derwent) added in brackets to our name. 

In the late 20s we were using Capt. Bennett's house and extensive gardens for our meetings. A new 

housing estate called for the demolition of his house. This gave us the idea to build our own HQ. 

Reginald Treadgold (The Asst Scouter) was a house agent and civil engineer. He drew up plans for 

our HQ whilst we bought some land from behind St Giles Church in Normanton. 

The photo's that you are about to see are all different stages in the construction of our HQ which is 

still in use today after 70 years. 

The test building. 

After completion the test budding was inspected by a select committee, and all expressed the 

opinion that work on the main building was to commence. The test building would become the 

new Rover den.


The Bricklaying Foundation Ceremony. 

Tire participants in the bricklaying foundation ceremony mixed mortar and each laid a course of 

bricks. 

Preparation of girder erection. 

Setting the concrete foundation on a lazy Saturday afternoon


The west end slowly growing walls 

Interior North roof and glass tiles 

Steel girders and roof completed 

East end under cover from the 

elements


East end showing a boarded portion, which will house the stage 

when funds allow 

The west end of the Building 

The south side of the Building showing the 

brickwork progressing 

The entrance 

Reinforcing the concrete on the roof


Work nearly completed 

Inside view of the east end of the hall 

Inside view of the west end of the hall 

Kitchen and Cub den added to hall 1936-37


Letter from Baden Powell 

On the completion of the new HQ Baden Powell sent the group a letter. The following is a copy of it.


Through the years by "The Trek-cart" 

This is an extract from a report by CJ Bennett circa.1947 

Through the years 

by "The Trek-cart" 

Thirty seven years old and still running. How time flies 

and how quickly the years seem to have passed since my 

birth in the spring of 1910. The 11th Derby (Barrow on 

Trent) Troop took up scouting in January 1908, but it was 

not until 1909 that the Troop was equipped with scout 

kit, and became a unit of Derby and District Scout 

Association. It developed into a cycle troop numbering, 

so far as I can recollect, some ten members, each 

provided with a cycle painted khaki colour. When the 

bicycles were obtained, it was decided to equip the troop 

with a cycle trek-cart, and so I came into being. 

My frame work was made of iron piping, fixed 

together with bolts and wing-nuts, my sides 

and end could be dismantled and made into a 

step ladder, a flag pole or a tent frame, and 

my floor could be used as a stretcher. My 

wheels were strong tricycle wheels, as used in 

tricycle delivery machines, and my shaft was 

constructed to be attached to the saddle pin 

of a bicycle. Actually the device was not too 

successful, as it was not easy to pull me uphill 

with a load of camp gear, and I was inclined to 

run away down a slope. I was housed at "The 

Cottage" where S.M C.J. Bennett of the 11th 

(Barrow) Troop resided. It was there that I 

learnt from the conversation of the Barrow 

scouts, something of the earlier dealings of 

the Derby and District scouts, especially 

knowledge respecting the 4th Derby 

(Derwents) and perhaps it may be of interest 

to many past and present members if I can put 

together some of the events which concern 

the long history of one of the oldest troops in 

the world.


It must have been in the summer of 1908 when a small number of boys, roused to enthusiasm by 

the publication of "Scouting for Boys" in April of that year, collected together, and formed the first 

troop in Derby in Crewton, without a scoutmaster. One Saturday they turned up at Barrow on some 

scouting adventure, and made the acquaintance of the S.M and the Scouts there, when they had tea 

at the " The Cottage These Crewton scouts broke up when more definitely organised Troops were 

formed in various parts of the town, and some of then joined up with the 4th Derby, when Douglas F 

Foxwell founded it in November 11th 1908 and it started its long career with its first headquarters in 

All Saints church house, in full street. 

Much of my knowledge of the 4th's doings was 

obtained through hearing its members yarning of 

past activities, and in conversation with the 

somewhat heavily made builders hand cart, which 

they used as a trek-cart, when I first came into 

close touch with the Troop; this was in 1912 

when I went to give a display of the various uses 

that I could be put to of which more here after. 

The information I obtained has become 

somewhat hazy after all of these years, and it is 

difficult to place the details of the early 

happenings in their correct order, but there is no 

doubt that the 4th was instrumental in gathering 

together at their H.Q. in Full Street a small 

number of interested gentleman among whom 

were Dr F.H. Bemrose and Mr R Lauder MacLaren 

(who presented the MacLaren cup to the District 

in July 1910) and S.M's of the newly formed 

Troops, to work out the necessary steps to be 

taken to organise the District, as suggested by 

London H.Q. then in Henrietta Street. It was to 

one of these meetings in the summer of 1909 

that Capt. Wade came from London to give what 

assistance he 

could to help in this organisation, and it was probably soon after his visit that the newly formed 

Troops were given their numbers. Those responsible for the preliminary arrangements called a 

meeting of all the Scoutmasters and the Derby and District Boy Scout Committee was formed in 

November 1909, with Mr R Lauder MacLaren as chairman, S.M. C.J. Bennett, Vice-Chairman and S.M. 

D.F. Foxwell Hon Secretary.


Taken from Derwent Green 1948. 

Author C.J. Bennett 

Through the years 

By the Trek cart 

It certainly gets more difficult to remember the many and varied events that must provide a true 

record of the troops early history and from the information derived from the conversation old 

members, who seldom mention dates, or from the troop’s first Trek cart up to 1913, when as will 

appear later it was superseded by a new one brought back from the Birmingham Rally, it is difficult 

to recall and more difficult to place in chronological order, all the happenings of those early years. I 

am reminded that mention should have been made that in organising the Troop S.M.Foxwell had the 

help of F.Meredith Lewes as A.S.M, who was also the Scout master of the Spondon House School 

Troop. 

On its first birthday in 1909 the Troop consisted of 50 members, a sufficient number to deal with in 

the limited space at its disposal, in All Saint’ church house. It would probably be soon after the 

formation of the Scout council in November 1909, that the 21 Troops of Derby & District were given 

their distinctive numbers and the Troop became the 4th, and added “Derwent” as our headquarters 

bordered on the river. 

A census of the District about this time records a total of 482. In March 1910 L.A.Travers received his 

warrant as A.S.M. In June 1910 a contingent of the Troop journeyed to London for King Edward’s 

Funeral and in the London newspapers appeared the following. “It was noted that Boy Scouts 

rendered most valuable and unselfish service. One Troop had come all the way from Derby with a 

view to seeing the procession. Finding themselves at an awkward corner where people were 

fainting, as an onlooker put it ‘‘wholesale”, they gave up all hope of seeing anything and devoted 

their whole attention to giving first aid.” 

Later in the month the first field day, now-a-days, I understand, termed a “widegame” found most of 

the scouts of the District taking part. A carefully worked out scheme had been circulated amongst 

the Troops and consisted of, in short, a Blue Force preventing a Red Force crossing the canal 

between Bolton Lane and Findern Bridge. A headquarters commissioner, Capt. Colbron Pearce, who 

was spending the weekend in the district, gave an excellent report on the game and congratulated 

both the attack and defence on the part they took carrying out the scheme. 

A gentleman quite unknown to the scouts, afterwards found to be a Major C.Hastings Medhurst, 

seemed very interested in the afternoon’s activities and after tea at Barrow joined in the march back 

to Derby, S.M.Foxwell getting into the conversation with him. His apparent keen interest in the 

Scout Movement led to his appointment as the first District Commissioner. 

During the summer months Bunkers hill, between Allestree and Duffield, and its approaches, 

provided the venue for many exiting Scouting games and continued to be until the Troop moved to 

new Headquarters in the Burton Road, in 1915. 

In October another wide game, taking the form of a “Dispatch run”, was successfully carried out in 

the neighbourhood of Duffield, where the District scouts collected at the conclusion of the game to 

march back to Derby. The District Commissioner, Major Medhurst, mounted on a more or less fiery 

steed, acted as umpire.


Taken from Derwent Green 1948. 

Author C.J. Bennett 

When the long column of troops got moving on the march he rode from the rear to take the lead. As 

he passed successive troops starting from the last, he did not seem too enthusiastic with the 

increasing strains of the “Galloping Major” which re-echoed over the countryside. 

Early in November, 30 members of the Troop went to 

Nottingham, on the occasion of the Chief Scouts’ visit to the 

scouts there. A thousand or more scouts had assembled, and the 

band played a right royal welcome. 

In his talk he expressed his pleasure at seeing nearly 100 scouts 

and scoutmasters from Derby who had come to great him. 

It was, I believe, in the late autumn of 1910 Mrs Spendlove, 

mother of P.L.C. Spendlove, who in December obtained the Silver 

wolf, the first awarded in the Troop, worked and presented the 

Troop’s colours, which were later dedicated in All Saint’ church. It 

must have been in the latter end of 1910 that S.M.Foxwell spoke 

of his contemplated departure to British Columbia and left Derby 

to make preparations for the move, coming, however, from 

London to take part in any special Troop activities and A.S.M F 

Meredith Lewes became acting S.M until a successor could be 

found to take over the Troop.


Through the years by The Trek-cart" 

Volume IV Part 1, February 1949. 

Late in 1911 A.S.M Gamer left Derby to live in London and early in 1912 E Stevens and G Kerry joined 

the troop as A.S.M's and Mr Lee as Instructor. In June 1912 the first big rally of Derbyshire Scouts 

was held at Chatsworth and 1,200 of all ranks marched past and afterwards were inspected by the 

then Duke of Devonshire who was in full uniform as Lord Lieutenant of the county. The 277 scouts 

from Derby were somewhat late arriving from Rowsley and a gap in the horseshoe formation 

arranged for the inspection awaited their arrival. The newspaper report of the day's proceedings 

expressed a doubt whether the delay was by accident or design, but whatever the reason, when 

they did march past the Duke, under Major Medhurst, then District Commissioner, led by our bugle 

band, and a cycle contingent, which had ridden from Derby, their marching and smart appearance 

obtained special commendation. 

It was my first experience at a scout function and after the inspection the 4 th were detailed to give a 

display showing the various uses my tubular framework could be used for, amongst which were 

making a flag pole - the framework of a tent - a 14' ladder - a bridge - and my body part towed 

behind a bicycle as a wheeled stretcher. The displays were somewhat marred by a heavy 

thunderstorm and had to be abandoned when a rush was made for shelter in the stables and 

outbuildings, the weather cleared up for tea and the march back to Rowsley for the Derby train. Col 

de Burgh, Deputy Chief Commissioner from London I.H.Q, who was present, gave a very favourable 

report on the efficiency and appearance of the scouts on parade. 

At the Temperance Hall, in July, The District Chaplain, Archdeacon Noakes, consecrated the Foxwell 

Trophy Challenge Colour, after which Major Medhurst, presented it to the 4th, the successful team, 

and Dr Bemrose, then President of the Association, presented the Silver Wolf award to second R 

Treadgold of the 4th, the McLaren Cup to scout R Hulland of the 21st Eggington Troop which with 

the 11 th Barrow on Trent Troop had our S.M. as Scoutmaster. 

In August the Troop went again to Chapel-en-le-Frith for its summer camp during which, in 

conjunction with a Nottingham Troop camping at Castleton, a message was relayed over the six 

miles to Castleton and a reply relayed back to Chapel-en-le-Frith. 

There is no record of the time taken. The troop also took part in the Chinley Association's field day. 

In April 1913 the first official inspection by the newly appointed District Commissioner Dr H H 

Bemrose, took place at the troop's HQ in Full Street and the occasion was marked by the leavetaking 

of A.S.M. J Hulland and Second R Hulland of the 21st Eggington Troop prior to their departure 

for Canada. Scout H Richards of the Eggington Troop was presented with the McLaren Cup. 

In May 1913, the announcement of the events which would be a part of the first International Rally 

to be held in Birmingham in July was published and the troop decided to enter a team in the bridge 

building competition. Mrs Mundy gave permission for Markeaton Park to be used for practises and 

the required number of 30' scaffold poles, boards for the roadways and a large quantity of ropes for 

guys and lashings were obtained and every effort was made to produce a team as nearly perfect as 

possible. Additional practise on the All Saints' rifle range in Full Street was carried out, for a team of 

four to enter the Schumacher Cup in the Marksmen competition. 

Through my years of service as the troop trek-cart there have been many episodes to call for the 

scout "smile and whistle" under difficulties when breakdowns have occurred but perhaps none were


quite so tragic as the first one at the Birmingham Rally. The troop, some 30 strong with kit and 

myself entrained for Birmingham on Tuesday July 1st. With so many kits and camp gear to be 

conveyed to the field, near Perry Hall Park (the rally ground) in which we obtained permission to 

camp, two journeys were necessary. I managed the first with some discomfort, and perhaps some 

warning notes from time to time, owing to the weight I had to carry and arrived safely at the 

campsite some two miles from the station. The second journey, loaded up with the remainder of the 

gear, was commenced with some misgivings and as it progressed I was quite unable to prevent 

myself from giving some indication that the weight I was called upon to bear was too great for my 

strength. However, I managed to keep going and safely reached the entrance to the camp field, but 

the rough nature of the road through the gateway overcome, I slowly sat down, my wheels having 

completely collapsed. 

I had looked forward to my appearance in the great arena where, after the rally, the scouts 

estimated at about 30,000, to greet H.R.H. Prince Arthur of Connaught, a programme of scout 

displays had been arranged. Members of the troop were to give one of a cycle patrol with its cycle 

trek-cart showing the various to which I could be put. Alas! endeavours to obtain new wheels were 

unsuccessful and our display had to be abandoned. 

At Bingley Hall where the competitions were held, our teams were well repaid for the work put in in 

practises, as we won both the Bridge building competition and the Schumacher Cup also a number 

of individual prizes and diplomas. So ended that first great rally which showed much of the value of 

the scout movement to the thousands who attended. The rally and exhibition though I, a broken 

down trek-cart, wondered whether it was my last appearance as a member of the 4th Derby Troop.


Through the years by "The Trek-cart" 

Volume IV Part 11, September 1949. 

Again I must return to a period before the Birmingham Rally in 1913, as memory has brought to 

mind events which should be recorded in the history of the troop. 

One of the outstanding successes in 1912 was the awarding of the Silver Wolf badge the highest 

badge to be gained in the scout movement, to P.L. R C Treadgold. 

In July 1912 and January 1913 the 4th were again successful in winning the Foxwell trophy 

competition. 

It was probably in 1913 when senior members experimented with wireless and put together a crystal 

set. There was much excitement when they heard their first message in morse from a station on the 

east coast. 

In March 1913 C H Neal, S Smith and H Soper became patrol leaders and in August C J Taylor was 

promoted to Troop Leader. 

In May of that year London Headquarters organised a 1d per scout scheme to provide a fund for a 

present to the Chief Scout on the occasion of his wedding, and it was at the Birmingham rally that 

the scouts saw the motor car which had been given to him. Returning to the happenings at the rally 

and my complete breakdown due to the overloading of camp gear, the winning of a trek-cart as 1st 

prize in the Bridge building competition was some consolation and it was of great value for transport 

on returning to Derby. The trek-cart was constructed in such a manner as to be easily taken to 

pieces, and was used on a number of occasions in giving a display of negotiating an obstacle when 

moving across country. The troop’s further successes in the various competitions at the rally are 

worthy of a mention:- 

 

 

 

 

 

1st prize in the Schumacher competition with a team consisting of P.L.'s Taylor and S Smith 

and scouts A Woods and A Watkins. 

1st prize in the Remington (senior) competition scout A Woods. 

2nd prize in the Parker (senior) competition P.L. S Smith 

The Greener competition (open to all comers) 6th S.M. C J Bennett, 7th P.L. S Smith 

In diplomas, P.L.'s Taylor and Neal were successful with a plasticine map of Barrow on Trent 

and a Model hut and P.L. Taylor for a Lace design. 

Shortly after the rally a letter from the Chief to the scoutmaster said that he had just been signing 

several marksmanship diplomas and congratulated the troop on their great shooting. 

Memory completely fails me, and I cannot call to mind how in my crippled condition I managed to 

return to Barrow, but eventually Mr James Eddie of Barrow Hall gave the Barrow Troop an axle and a 

pair of gig wheels, which were reduced in size by the Swarkestone wheelwright and I was again able 

to take part in scout activities. The repairs were unfortunately not completed in time to take part 

in the 1st trek that the 4th ever made in August and my knowledge of it was passed on to me when 

next I forgathered with the old builder’s handcart, which took my place with the rally prize cart. 

The trek commenced on Friday evening August 8th at 9 pm when the party left the HQ in Full Street 

going by the Kedleston Road and Cross o' Hands to Idridghay and there settling down in camp for a


somewhat short nights rest, in a field adjacent to the vicarage. The distance covered during the 

fortnight was between 120 and 130 miles through the Peak and the Country beyond, and among 

the places of interest visited were Haddon Hall, Tideswell church, The Devonshire Hospital at 

Buxton, Worthington's Silk mill at Lock, the copper works at Oakamore and the glass works at 

Tutbury. Whaley Bridge was the furthest point from Derby and from there by the Goyt valley the 

route led by Cat and Fiddle and Wild Boar Clough through a part of Cheshire and Staffordshire to 

Leek where the then vicar insisted on the tents being pitched on his lawn. This first trek was so much 

enjoyed and proved such a success, that there was a general feeling that such a holiday was 

preferable to a standing camp in future. 

In November E D Dingle, J Hatton and G Robinson became Patrol leaders. 

Written by C J Bennett


Through the years by "The Trek-Cart" 

Volume V Part1, February 1950 

The earlier months of 1914 were occupied in the usual troop activities at HQ and included increased 

success in receiving messages by wireless, practise on the rifle range and preparation for passing 

tests for proficiency badges. On Saturday afternoons, when weather permitted, wide games were 

organised, generally in the neighbourhood of Allestree and Bunkers Hill, Darley Abbey and Little 

Eaton. 

At Whitsun, a long weekend camp, in fine weather, in a field close to the railway, off the road from 

Stenson to Findern was greatly enjoyed, especially as a brook ran through the field close to the 

camping site and the adjacent wood, and the area towards Willington, provided opportunities for 

many scouting games. 

In June Patrol Leader CH Neal gained the Kings Scout badge. 

In July the Foxwell trophy was competed for and the 4th had to give way to the 2nd Derby (post 

office) Troop. Also in July a scouts exhibition and rally at Sheffield attracted 171 scouts and scouters 

from Derby. It was a somewhat long march from the station to the outskirts of the town, where the 

rally was held, but was amply repaid when the Chief Scout congratulated the Derby troops on their 

smart appearance, after his inspection. A short visit to the interesting exhibition of scout activities in 

the town hall and various rounds in the boxing competitions, was rather curtailed, to arrive at the 

station in time for the Derby train. Scout C Hunt of the 4th failed to arrive and the SM had to stay 

behind to collect him and catch the next train. 

Arrangements had been made with the county council to take a census of the traffic on roads at 

Thulston, Chellaston and Barrow. The members taking part camped at a farm on Thulston Field close 

to the London Road. The records had to be filled in for all traffic each day for a week, and must have 

started about the1st August. The outbreak of war on August 4th, caused an abnormal condition of 

the movement s of horses and all kinds of vehicles and a county council official who came to see 

what was happening, decided that the census be abandoned. The troop moved to Barrow for the 

remainder of the holiday and troop leader Taylor had to return to Derby, having been called up. 

Soon after war was declared the government recognised the Scout Movement as a public service 

non-military body, and the Derby scouts rendered valuable help to both military and police 

whenever their services were required. Throughout the country scouts were responsible in many 

districts for guarding railway bridges and reservoirs and Derby and District was organised to guard 

the Little Eaton Water Works and the Littleover reservoir. 

The day guard, consisting mostly of schoolboys, slept the night in the rifle range at the 4th HQ, 

marching off each morning to Little Eaton and Littleover in time to relieve the night guard composed 

of scouts at work in the day time. Later, the day guard of about 24 scouts proceeded to the water 

works the previous evening to their day on duty and, provided with blankets slept at a building put 

at their disposal, and later still the guards, rather less in number, camped above the top reservoir. It 

was PL Doug Dingle, with other senior members, who surrounded the reservoir with trip wire, 

connected with an electric bell, to warn the guard of the approach of any strangers. 

In due course the authorities took over and the scouts were released for messenger and 

hospital duties. When the wounded soldiers began to arrive at Derby station, the other members


of the troop were called upon to assist in rendering first aid, where bandages had been displaced in 

the long journey to Blighty and in helping to load the stretcher cases into the various vehicles 

collected at the station for the transport to the infirmary, and also to help the infirmary staff in 

making their patients as comfortable as possible. When the SM obtained his Commission in the 

Derbyshire Yeomanry and joined up, Mr A R Roberts, the father of scout Reg Roberts, who with PL C 

Spendlove, had in 1912 joined the Navy as boy artificers, volunteered to assist in running the troop 

and in November got Mr S M Barnes as ASM.


Through the years by "The Trek-Cart" 

Volume V Part 2, September 1950 

During the war years from the time when Mr A.R.Roberts was ASM in charge of the troop, there was 

no opportunity for me to hear of its activities and it was not until sometime after the peace was 

declared and the SM returned to Barrow-on-Trent and the troop, that I picked up from time to time 

the happenings that had taken place when I foregathered once again with the trek cart which had 

been won at the Birmingham Rally in 1913. Mr Roberts had offered to give one night a week to help 

the Patrol leaders to keep things going but soon found that it was unnecessary, with an increasing 

number of boys wanting to join, to attend other nights and it was not long before he found himself 

down at Full St every night of the week, often including Sundays, even after Mr Barrs had joined him 

as another ASM. 

One of the many activities of members of the Boy Scouts Association throughout the country was 

that of Coast Watching, in which PLRC Treadgold took part. The newspapers, in October 1914, wrote 

of the scouts as "Men of the second line", boys who had taken up the work of the coastguardsmen 

called up for service with the fleet and the words of the Chief Coastguard "I do not know what we 

should do without them" gives some idea of the way they carried out their duties. 

I am unable to determine the date the parents' council was first formed, but believe it was prior to 

1914. It was not until 1916 when the constitution of the council was decided upon. The help given by 

the parents, without a break through the years, has been of inestimable value in fostering and 

encouraging the troops activities, and much of its success has been due to being free from financial 

responsibilities which they took upon their shoulders, and nobly have they carried out and are still 

carrying out- their activities. 

By the spring of 1915 the first troop magazine was edited by ASM Barrs but, unfortunately, the copy 

is missing and some information of interest of troop doings may not be recalled. In July an exhibition 

of Scoutcraft was given was given in the grounds of Nunsfield House, Alvaston and the newspaper 

report gives the troop as numbering 100 strong. At this time quite a number of the PL's and older 

members of the troop had been called up on service, also the number of patrols had been increased 

to cope with the new members who joined up to the scout movement, as a means of being able to 

take part in the organised public service run by the scouts throughout the country. 

The patrols and patrol leaders in July1915 are of interest:- 

Ram W Chalvin Otter R Jolley 

Peewit W Vale Lion F Beesley 

Curlew W West Eagle C Jackson 

Swift E Dingle Panther G Lee 

Wolf H Hatton Elephant E James 

The troop band had on many occasions turned out to local troops and district parades and consisted 

of 16 Buglers, 8 Drummers and the Big Drummer and was rightly proud of its appearance and 

musical efficiency- if a Bugle Band merits the word musical! 

In the October version of the magazine a roll of honour shows that about 50 members of the troop 

had been called up for service and E Hardy, H Gray, T Mitchell and H Ottewell made the great


sacrifice. In the following magazines the troops activities in war service gives the names of 53 

members obtaining the war service badge. 

In July 1916 there was a display and Gala in Markeaton Park and the programme shows scout 

activities: 2 concert period, troop sports and finally a Tattoo. The occasion appears to have been a 

success. 

In this number SM Roberts writes of the increasing difficulties in the accommodation of the Full 

Street HQ, together with a demand from the All Saints' authorities for an increase in the rent. It was 

then it was decided to endeavour to find new premises large enough to accommodate the increasing 

number of the troop. The new premises were in the old paint works in Burton Road, but when the 

transfer was made is uncertain.

Songs and Poems 

Page 34 of 156


The Grand Howl 

This sounds like a lot of noise to some people who do not understand why this ceremony is part 

of cub scouting. The meaning behind this is:- 

1. To salute Akela 

2. It is the highest form of appreciation that the pack can pay to any visitor or friend. 

3. It is a solemn, renewal of the Cub promise. 

4. The unity of the circle symbolises the unity of the pack, made up by the willing co-operation 

of each Cub. 

The Cub Scout law 

A Cub Scout always does his best 

Thinks of others before himself 

And does a good turn every day! 

A Cub Scouts version in his own words. 

If you see someone drowning you save him before you save yourself! 

One cub's idea of his pack! 

The 4th Saxons are the best 

We always seem to beat the rest 

In the knockout competition we did well 

Third out of thirteen does seem swell 

On Tuesday we work hard and long 

To do things right instead of wrong 

Our badges are gained for the things we do 

So come on cubs be straight and true. 

Composed by Andrew Revill- White six Saxon Pack.


A Beavers Alphabet. 

A is for ADVENTURE days out in the sun 

B is for BEAVERS, of which I am one. 

C is for CUBS, which we will be one day. 

D is for DAM where we work and play. 

E is for EXERCISE, for young and old. 

F is for FUR which keeps out the cold. 

G is for GAMES, such as hunting for treasure. 

H is for HAZEL beavers nibble for pleasure. 

I is for INVESTITURE, when we first make our start. 

J is for JOY, when each one plays their part. 

K is for KITCHEN, where safety is the key. 

L is for LODGE, where we live snug and warm. 

M is for MOTHERS, who make such a fuss. 

N is for NAUGHTY- well, that can’t be us. 

0 is for OVERFLOW, over our dam. 

P is for PROMISE, which makes me what I am. 

Q is for QUICKLY, we always respond. 

R is for RIVER BANK, near to our pond. 

S is for STREAM running smoothly and clear. 

T is for TAIL, which we swim and steer with. 

U is for UNDER, the water we swim. 

V is for VIGOUR, in which we play. 

W is for WATER, our home and our friend. 

X is for EXAMPLE we show all the time. 

Y is for YELLING, for which we get told off. 

Z is for ZEST


(The Derwent Bugle band) 

The Derwent Troop Song. 

The following song was taken from one of the early troop magazines dated April 1917. The magazine 

itself was a hard back book. It was filled with cut outs from newspapers all about scouting, ramblings 

from the different patrols of the day, photographs, information about activities and also a message 

from the Scoutmaster. Each patrol was allowed the magazine for two weeks, in that time each scout 

was allowed to take it home to read for one night only. On the last day of their two week use the 

magazine had to be returned to the office to be passed on to the next patrol 

Play up Derwents 

We’re fitted out with scout kit, and were taught to play the game. 

Play up Derwents. Play up Derwents. 

We’ll take you on at anything, and beat you at the same. 


The spirit of our scouting game inspires each Derwent scout 

and when were given a job to do, we know our way about 

Ohl we’ve got no room for slackers, and they jolly soon clear out 

of the Derwents. Play up Derwents 

Chorus! 

Be it play or be it work. Play up Derwents 

We must never try to shirk. Play up Derwents 

For the honour of our name, 

we'll ne’er bring our troop to shame. 

Play the game. Play the game. 

Play up Derwents 

The honour of the troop is dear to every Derwent heart 


To keep that honour clean and bright, we each must do our part 


For when in later years we must decide ’twixt’ right and wrong, 

then remembering the dear old troop, each Derwent shall be strong. 

Play up Derwents. Play up Derwents 

As time rolls on and old age finds us drifting down the hill. 


When death be in the valley, we will meet him Derwents still 


And if he meets us here at home, or in some distant land, 

our spirits coming back again will hover near at hand. 

and the boys will hear us whisper, and the boys will understand. 


Taken from Derwent Green 1964 (Author unknown)


A Christmas tale 

A tale I can tell of the 4th troop of old 

who set out from camp one Christmas-so cold 

From Chapel to Bamford they travelled by train 

To look at the dams and walk back again 

There was Shuttleworth Alan, and intrepid C.J. 

With Jimmy and Barry and lanky Ron A. 

And one or two more, whose names I forget 

Who are part of my story which is not over yet. 

While walking by Howden with steady pace 

Across the road a rabbit did race 

Pursued very closely by hunting stoat 

Snapping and snarling at the poor creatures 

throat 

A passing car scared off the attack 

But the poor old bunny was flat on his back 

Grabbing him quickly the party, with glee 

Exchanged him quite soon for a pot of hot tea! 

Ladybower and Derwent we saw that day 

Church spire still standing from out of the clay 

And continuing our journey by Roman road 

Arrived very safely at Snake inn - so cold. 

Here we refreshed, as well as we need 

For over Kinder Scout CJ. would lead 

So by Ashop we travelled high into the hill 

With dragging of feet but strengthening will 

Length of shadow gave news of night 

But plodding we on with all our might 

Until way on top fog came without sound 

The path disappeared and dark fell around. 

Torches were spent and matches all gone 

All wished in their hearts to be safe at home 

Night was so cold, food now all eaten 

But after a rest we were not to be beaten. 

“Listen for water” the wise S.M. said, 

“For if we can find it- we’ll be home to bed” 

Soon trinkling water was traced by the sound 

and walking along it deep places were found 

Rock ledges appeared as quick as a wink 

C.J. disappeared right over the brink 

But lucky was he, for he broke not a bone 

and survived intact to lead us home. 

Walking in water we came in the cool 

to a waterman’s cottage by Hayfields pool 

and there late o’night a friend was found 

to taxi us home, wet through but sound 

and so my tale draws fast to its close 

With many an error of metre and prose 

Telling a story of danger and yet, 

One that this Derwent will never forget.


Woods to burn! 

Logs to bum. 

Logs to save the coal a turn, 

Here’s a word to make you wise 

When you here the woodman’s cries. 

Never heed his usual tale 

That he has good logs for sale, 

But read these lines and really learn 

the proper kind of log to bum. 

Oak logs will warm you well 

If they’re old and dry, 

Larch logs of pinewood smell 

But the sparks will fly. 

Beech logs for Christmas time, 

Yew logs heat well. 

“Scotch” logs it is a crime 

for anyone to sell. 

Birch logs will bum too fast, 

Chestnuts scarce at all. 

Hawthorn logs are good to last 

If cut in the fall. 

Holly logs will bum like wax 

You should bum them when green, 

Elm bums like smouldering flax 

No flame to be seen. 

Pear logs and apple logs 

They will scent your room, 

Cherry logs across the dogs 

Smell like flowers in bloom. 

But ash logs, smooth and grey, 

Bum them green or old; 

Buy up all that come your way 

They’re worth their weight in gold! 

Found in a tea house at Tissington on one of the monthly Rover hikes.


Taken from Derwent green Feb 48. 

Author Jay Kay 

OUR “CREWE” 

BY Jay Kay 

Now here is some more of my terrible rhyme, 

It’s about the fourth crew at this present time. 

Its numbers increase every year there’s no doubt 

So be warned, you young fellows, and don’t get left out. 

There’s Laurie, young Evans, our new mate, he’s fine 

He rides to the office each morning at nine. 

Next Ram, he’s our leader, a tough guy is he, 

He now holds a shore job, after years at the sea. 

Then Treddy, a dealer in all radio. 

If your wireless breaks down, then to him you must go. 

Now Joe he’s a baker of fame and renown. 

When his short-cuts are followed you cover much ground. 

If it’s thinking of buying a home that you be 

Then talk to Ken S, or else talk to Ken C. 

Now Jack is a driver, or so we suppose, 

He’s out in all weather, in his bus drivers clothes. 

Next come the school teachers, we have quite a few, 

There’s Ken, Jack and John, yes- and young Vernon too. 

When they’re all together then Rovers beware, 

They’ll all want to teach us, but not how to swear! 

If you should want dressing like any bigshot 

Then call and see Rowland, at clothes he’s red hot. 

Or, if income tax troubles should worry your head, 

Then chat with Dave G- you know-his hairs red. 

Now we’ve an electrician he’s quite a bright spark 

His name it is Peter, he’s game for a lark. 

And last, but not least, we’ve got young Ron A. 

Who remembers his scouting by night and by day. 

There’s many more names, of that I’ve no doubt 

But alas! And alack! my pen has run out. 

So I’ll bid you farewell at this final stage, 

And hope that you’ll join us when you’re Rover age.


Evergreen 1963 

This song was the opening song for the very successful Evergreen show staged in 1963. Over 

100 members of the group took part (cubs, scouts, rovers and parents). 

We are the 4th Derby 

We are a band of brothers, 

With pack troop and crew, and B-P Guild too. 

And scouters who knew how to lead, 

Scout with the 4th Derby, 

Always known as "The Derwents" 

Still going strong after fifty-five years 

And we'll go on for fifty-five more! 

Building a new tomorrow 

Helping the work of today 

Why not come and enjoy with us 

The magic of the scouting game? 

Yes we are Derwent scouts, 

Envy of all the others 

We are the boys with the scarf of green, 

We're the 4th Derby Boy Scouts. 

It makes reference to still be going for another fifty-five years, well we have made it to 45 of those 

years so let’s make sure we carry on for another 10 years and many many more after that.


A Story About Four People! 

Everybody, Somebody, Anybody and Nobody. 

There was an important job to do, and Everybody was asked to do it. 

Everybody was sure Somebody would do it, Anybody could have done it, but in 

the end Nobody did it. 

Everybody got angry over this because really it was Somebody’s 

job. Everybody thought Somebody would do it, but Nobody realised that Anybody 

wouldn’t do it. 

It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody, when actually Nobody had asked 

Anybody!! 

God Bless. Please all look to the future of the Group. Your Grandchildren 

and Great Grandchildren may need us. WHO KNOW’S 

ADA E PERKINS

Memories and Stories 

Page 43 of 156


The following is a copy of a journal kept by a 

former scout of the 4th 

Dated June 5 th 1948. 

‘Boy Scout’ 

at the 

Albert Hall, London. 

Sat June 5th 1948 

A log of the doings of C.J.Bennett, the senior member, or S.M. and Terry Freeman, the junior 

member, or J.M. who formed a small party of two, which went to London to see the great show of 

‘Boy Scout’, and also give the J.M. who had not been to the capital of our country before, an 

opportunity of visiting some of the sights which are to be found there. 

June 4th to June 7th 1948 

The outing to London commenced on Friday June 4th, in order to get as much time as possible for 

sight-seeing, and the first step of the journey to St Pancras, was to take the 2.10 train to 

Nottingham, changing there to a train leaving at 3 o’clock, which went by Melton Mowbray- Oakham 

-Kettering & Wellingborough. Making what 

seemed a somewhat prolonged route, which 

arrived at 6.15pm instead of the expected 

5.20pm. However tea was obtainable on the 

train and helped to pass the time. A short 

wait in the station for our turn for a taxi 

came to an end and we arrived at the 

Bonnington Hotel in Southampton Row, our 

headquarters for our stay in town at 

6.30pm. 

The evening seemed to require some form 

of Amusement and the show at the ‘Stoll’ 

Theatre ‘stars on ice’, not very far from the 

hotel appeared the most attractive, 

commencing at 7pm. Here was where our 

tea on the train was fortunate as a decision 

had to be made between food and theatre. The theatre was decided upon and the curtain went up 

as we gained our seats. 

A really marvellous exhibition of skating filled the 2Vi hour programme, really a variety show on ice 

consisting of concerted movements-acrobatics-cycling activities. Well worth the missing of a meal. 

Back at the hotel tea and cake somewhat appeased our hunger before we turned in for a nights rest. 

Breakfast at 8.30 on Saturday, provided fair time to make a start on the various activities of the first 

day in London.


Catching a bus to the Strand, and walking up various side streets we arrived at Moss Bros, in Covent 

Garden where the S.M. tried on a number of sports coats before deciding on the most suitable. From 

Moss ’s we walked to Trafalgar Square by St Martins in the field, and found the crowd off at pigeon 

residents, being further encourage to increase their weight by the number of people feeding them. 

The Nelson Monument too seemed to be a roosting place for those presumably fed up. The S.M. 

also pointed out the National Gallery overlooking the square on the north side. 

From Charring Cross station nearby we got a taxi to take us to Grosvenor Square, passing St James 

Palace with its sentry on duty en route, to see the Roosevelt monument, after which we picked up 

another taxi which enabled us to avoid the long walk to our next objective, Buckingham Palace. The 

taxi took us up by Hyde Park corner, through the big gateway into the green park. We got a passing 

glimpse at the fine ‘quad Riga’ (a chariot with four horses) over the gateway, sometimes called the 

Wellington Memorial. 

Arriving at Buckingham Palace we noted the Queen Victoria Memorial, the lower available standing 

places, filled with people who had climbed up to see into the parade ground in front of the palace, 

where the Coldstream guards were changing guard. We joined the assembled crowds along the 

railings. Finally the old guard marched off the parade ground headed by the band, at the somewhat 

peculiar slow march, the band playing ‘Men of Harlech’, until clear of the gateway and then they 

changed to the ‘quick march’ back to barracks. 

Walking down Buckingham Palace road, a halt was made at the Imperial Scout Headquarters where 

the mob of scouts in the scout shop made it quite hopeless to get near the counters so we 

abandoned any idea of shopping. D.S.M Tom Roome and G.S.M. Hall were among the crowd having 

come up from Derby for the afternoon Boy Scout Show. Leaving the shop our S.M. went to B.P ’s 

room to have a look at the many Scout souvenirs and decorations collected in all parts of the world, 

by the old chief during his long service to scouting. The S.M. took the opportunity to say a ‘how do 

you do’ to the newly appointed Chief Executive Commissioner A.W.Hurll and had a short chat with 

him and another old scouting friend Mr Morgan in the commissioner’s office. 

Leaving H.Q, a short walk to Victoria station yard, enabled us to get a bus up Victoria St to see, Big 

Ben- The Houses of Parliament- Westminster Bridge with the fine Boudicca Group over a gateway, 

and Westminster Abbey. From the bridge we watched a boat loading up for a trip down the river. 

Inside the abbey we especially noticed the Unknown Soldiers Grave and the B.P Memorial. 

From the Abbey passing along Whitehall , points of interest were, the Cenotaph the mounted 

guards, outside the gates of the horse guards- the United Services Museum building (out of the 

windows of the banquet hall , King Charles 1st is said to have stepped on to the scaffold to meet his 

death. 

Walking on up Whitehall and again coming to Trafalgar Square, something to eat had to be 

considered, and eventually Charring Cross Hotel seemed to be able to supply the need, and a good 

meal made us ready to face the afternoons activities. 

At Trafalgar Square our S.M. had his first experience of the long escalators down to the platform of 

the underground railway, even to grown-ups, something of a thrill. After fathoming how to obtain 

tickets from the automatic slot machine, the escalator took us down to the platform for the Bakers 

Street train and after another ride to the surface we got a bus to Madame Tussauds waxworks show. 

The wonderful display of historical figures and heroes of great days, groups representing the Royal


family- members of Parliament- Army, Navy and Airforce officers- Athletes- Jockeys- Footballers- 

Cricketers etc., etc, many so natural that it was difficult to realise that they were waxwork figures, 

was a not to be missed experience. The chamber of horrors was indeed a chamber of 

horrors. 

Again the underground with another escalator ride took us from Baker St to 

Charring Cross and finding sufficient time for a quick visit we got a taxi to the Tower of 

London. Passing along the river embankment, past the Traitors Gate, we found an 

entrance into the tower precincts, and decided that we had time to visit the White Tower 

where the many exhibits of weapons of war, instruments of torture and the very fine show 

of armour worn by foot soldiers, and by knights of old on model horses proved an impressive 

experience. Another long wait, eventually provided tea at the tower restaurant coming out of 

which we had the luck to see the Tower Bridge raised for a vessel to pass through. 

Another escalator ride took us to the train back to Charring Cross station, outside of which we soon 

found a taxi for ‘boy scout’ at the Albert hall, the principle object of our London visit. A large crowd 

of scouters and scouts were gradually collecting outside the doors, and many more were on the 

opposite side of the road, looking at the Albert memorial there. Entering the hall to locate our 

reserved seats we found it very nearly filled to capacity and there must have been an audience of 

well over 4000, to see the last performance of a week’s successful run. 

It is quite impossible to describe the ‘Boy Scout Show’ filled with so many varied episodes depicting 

the life of a scout from the time he joins the movement to the obtaining of his first class badge. The 

many and varied items, the necessary massing of boys in the arena-in one scene about 800, were 

carried out with marvellous precision and the programme from start to finish rightly drew from the 

great audience rounds and rounds of enthusiastic applause. 

Ralph Reader, the producer with commissioner A.W.Hurll- scout Michael Mauders, who took the 

part of Boy Scout, - the choir, and all those who took part, can look back on a show, the success of 

which resulted from the perfect team work without which such a fine achievement would have been 

impossible. 

We were fortunate that with the great crowd leaving after the show we were soon able to get hold 

of a taxi and arrived back at our hotel about 10.15 ready after a light meal to turn in satisfied with a 

day filled with many interesting incidents. Sunday breakfast about 8.45 gave ample time to find our 

way to St Paul’s Cathedral a bus took us to the Strand where we caught another bus for St Paul’s at 

the stop St Martins in the Fields. On our way we had a brief glance at the ‘Griffin’ monument which 

marks the site of Old Temple Bar one of the gates of the city, the monument stands in the middle of 

the street and is used from time to time on ceremonial occasions. 

Arriving at St Paul’s we found a seat under the great dome and took part in the service which had 

already commenced. A Holy Communion service was to follow so we were unable to wander round 

to look at the many memorials to great men of past history though on our way out we did happen to 

notice the memorial to General Gordon of Khartoum. 

Much of the walls on the north side of the building are boarded up, until repairs can be gradually 

completed and all signs of bomb damage obliterated.


After leaving the cathedral, a wander round the devastated area in its vicinity, bought vividly to our 

imagination, the terrors that came to those that were living there at the time of the Battle of Britain 

and the feeling that the divine protection surely prevented St Paul’s from becoming a ruin. 

Though the streets are now cleared, there is a vast area showing the results of the bombing this 

section of London suffered, and it will be many years before this devastated area can hide its 

wounds. 

On our wandering we came across a lengthy series of buildings which we found to be Smithfield 

Market, before catching a bus to Oxford Circus to walk from there back to our hotel. A wrong turning 

took us up Regent Street, and it was some little time before the S.M decided that his grasp of locality 

was at fault, as finding ourselves not far from Regents Park, we were some distance away from 

Southampton Row. However a taxi corrected the error, and we arrived at the Bonnington in fairly 

good time for the midday Sunday dinner, and a short rest before setting off for the Zoological 

gardens. A bus took us to Camden town where we changed to another which passed the zoo 

gates, where a longish queue was waiting for the gates to open at 2.30. the many attractions at the 

zoo are overwhelming, and far too many to attempt to set down, but we paid a visit to most of the 

buildings set apart for the animals (birds-reptiles-fish etc) in that great attraction which draws so 

many people to look at the collection of living creatures from all parts of the world. 

It perhaps is worthy of note that many peoples including ourselves, regretted that the Giant Panda 

refused to waken from his Sunday nap and high up in the roof of his cage declined to wake up, and 

condescend to come down, and show himself off. A wired round, and otherwise open area, was 

placard’ as ’Dangerous Poisonous Snakes amongst the rockwork and grass’, but failed to locate any. 

We would dearly have liked to try the effect of flinging a few stones to get them on the move, but of 

course that couldn’t be done. We did manage to see the sea-lions getting their supply of fish, thrown 

amongst them either into the water, or on to the rocks, arranged in the large enclosure where they 

have plenty of room to swim around and bask in the sun. They were wonderfully clever in catching 

the fish in the air, or if it fell in the water were quick to be first to dive after it. The biggest of them 

did quite a lot of diving off a high place on the rocks, and one would not I think put him first in a neat 

dive at the swimming baths as he made a fairly big splash. 

It came on to rain just after 5 o’clock when we were getting towards the entrance, after having been 

all around, and we decided to get back to the hotel and it was only after we had left the zoo that the 

J.M remembered that we had not come across the giraffes. We were lucky to get one of the few 

taxi’s that were outside the gates, and avoided joining the long queues waiting for buses. 

Back at the Bonnington tea in the lounge kept us going until supper about 7.30 after which back in 

the lounge, we got down on paper an addition to our log which bought our doings up to date. The 

J.M went off to bed at 9pm for a good night’s rest necessary after the two late nights at the ‘Stoll 

theatre’ and at ‘Boy Scout’ followed by the S.M later on. It was about 9 o’clock when we got down 

for breakfast, after which we had to decide the time of our leaving London for home. 

There was the possibility of breaking our journey at Luton in order to go by bus from there to 

‘Whipsnade’ to see the animals kept there, in their more natural surroundings, and all another 

experience to our weekend activities. On enquiries at the hotel there appeared to be some 

uncertainty about the


running of buses from Luton, and it seemed likely that if we did break the journey, our arrival at 

Derby might be about 8 o’clock. 

We left the Bonnington just after 10 o’clock and first missed catching the 10.15, the early train which 

might have made the Whipsnade visit possible, and learned the next train departed at 11.45. With 

an hour to spare we got a taxi to take us to Piccadilly Circus to look at the ‘Eros Statue’ now restored 

after a somewhat chequered career during the war. From the circus we walked to Trafalgar Square 

passing on our way a statue of Henry Irving, in the square we came across a statue to Lord Napier at 

the base of which we read that the cost was paid by public subscription the soldiers of that day 

giving the greatest amount of the fund. 

During our stay there the Bonnington Hotel proved to be a comfortable headquarters and on our 

first night seemed fairly filled up. On the Saturday morning a number of empty buses waiting outside 

the hotel, we found out, were taking a large party off to the ‘Derby’. For a moment we thought how 

splendid it would be to find our way there too for the ‘Big Race’ but with the enormous crowds going 

there, our getting back after the races might make us late for the ‘Boy Scout’ show, so the idea was 

abandoned the 11.45 with lunch on the train to pass the time of the long journey, with a change at 

‘Trent’, brought us into Derby and a last taxi, completed a short holiday, filled with memories of a 

large variety of incidents, which both the members of our small party of two, enjoyed to the full, 

when we arrived back in Normanton about 3 o’clock. 

Scouting back in those days was a lot different with a lot more trust and CJ ran a tight ship strictly to 

the manual ; ’Scouting for Boys’ of which I still have my 40th edition and my ‘Hackney Scout Song 

Book’, discipline was strong and 1 must admit made it easier when I entered the R.A.F. 

Terry Freeman.


Memories of Dennis A Hall 

Even at the age of 69 I still have fond memories of my time in the 4th Derby Derwent cub and scout 

troop. I still cannot look at the Union Flag without checking if it is the right way up!! 

It would be around 1947 when I first joined the ‘cubs' dressed in my brand new cub uniform with my 

green cap and yellow braiding. This newness didn’t last very long because of the games we played 

ending up with the 'British Bulldog'. The basic rules were for one cub to stand in the middle of the 

hall and then for the rest of the troop to rush from one end to the other without being caught. 

Anyone unlucky enough to be caught joined the 'catcher' in the middle. You can imagine that as the 

game progressed it got more and more difficult to reach the end of the hall with the majority of the 

troop diving on the poor devils who were still in the game - great fun. 

At the end of the evening we would receive a drink and something to eat, all prepared by our mums, 

the family spirit and involvement was very strong in those days. Alternatively we would call in at the 

Village Street chippie for six pennyworth of chips with loads of vinegar! 

I grew up in the cubs and scouts with people I still remember. Firstly there was Barry Hirst who was 

an extremely close friend and with whom I had some great experiences, especially at a cub camp in 

Ticknall when we lived for the whole week on Horlicks Tablets because we had convinced ourselves 

that we wouldn't like the food served at camp! We also made peashooters out of ‘dead man’s meat' 

using maple peas as ammunition. But perhaps the most vivid memory was of the tin bath filled with 

cold water, which we all had to use each morning. 

Captain Bennet would be the first one to strip off and climb into clean water. Each cub followed this, 

in turn, until everyone had had a bath! Unfortunately the scum in the bath increased with usage so 

you can imagine what it was like for the person who used it last!! 

I also remember being told off by my mum because I brought back the bar of Palmolive soap with 

the name still clearly visible indicating that it had hardly been used. It hadn’t. 

My other friends included Grahame Woodward, who, together with his wife Joan, became cub and 

scout leaders in Bude. Grahame and Joan remain our closest friends. There is also Vic Smith who we 

are still in contact with, Bob Ely, Brian 'Wagger' Wayne and Brian Ireland plus many others. Vic and I 

together with one other guy won the Mrs Drury Lowe swimming cup for the Troop. 

Captain Bennet was undoubtedly a dedicated leader, held in awe by everyone. To be honest it was 

an ordeal to be cross-examined by him when taking a test for one of many badges. Nevertheless, on 

reflection, we at least knew that the badge was deserved when awarded. I often wondered what 

stories the many treasures held in his ‘den’ could tell. 

The Scout Hut was the focal point of all activities with each pack having a dedicated den. I remember 

when we carried out some repairs that we stuffed the walls with very old copies of scouting 

publications. I wonder if they are still there? At the age of 9 I think I was secretly in love with our cub 

leader, June Goodall!! 

Bonfire night was always a great occasion with 4th Derby having the biggest and best bonfire for 

miles around. The whole evening was a fantastic affair, supported by everyone, with loads to eat


including baked potatoes and toffee. Common sense always prevailed on safety measures without 

the need for the Health and Safety Executive imposing dozens of stringent rules of engagement. 

Buckets of water seemed to be sufficient together with good scouting practice. We never once burnt 

the Scout Hut down!!!! In those days it was accepted that scouts would carry sheath knives without 

any possible risk of trouble - what has gone wrong with the youth of today? 

Finally, many congratulations to 4th Derby Derwent on achieving100 years. Thank you for assisting in 

my formative years of upbringing and giving me an excellent grounding in life.


Memories of Harold Winfield 

Some memories of the 4th Derby Scout Troop, extracted from 

the memoirs of Harold Winfield. Harold unfortunately passed 

away in 2008. Harold Winfield left a donation in his will that 

will help the group continue building the skills of children for 

many years to come. Harold joined the troop in 1926 and was 

still interested in hearing from them to his final days. 

There had been a time when the church, which we attended, 

had started a Church Lads Brigade. I joined but I could see 

little point in doing drill movements and I soon lost interest. 

There was a bugle band for the older boys but I was too young 

to have a chance of learning to blow a bugle or even to bang a 

drum. Because I had fallen out of the brigade my father was 

against me joining the scouts as some of my friends had done. However I persisted and I joined an 

old-established troop, which was run by a remarkable man, Captain C.J. Bennett. 

Captain Bennett had been an army man and he had served in the Boer War. He was a bachelor and 

he was caring for his invalid 90 year old mother at this time. We used his house and an extensive 

garden as our headquarters, with the weekly use of a school hall as required. Scouting, for Captain 

Bennett was not a matter of giving one evening a week. It was for seven days a week and his 

example as an upright Christian man pervaded all the activities. I cannot over-estimate the power for 

good he exercised over many boys and for many years. He was still an active group scoutmaster at 

the time of his death at 84 and he had taken boys to camp right into his eighties. 

My particular friend at this time the new HQ was being built was Fred Hoult. He was a trainee 

draughtsman at the Internal Combustion works in Sinfin Lane. He and I became the mainstays of the 

amateur labour recruited from the troop but some of the parents became interested in the project 

and lent their labour also. My father became involved and though he was without building 

experience - as indeed we all were- he stayed the course better than most and he put in many hours. 

His efforts were rewarded later by the presentation of the gold Scout Thanks Badge. This badge was 

a scout fleur-de-lys superimposed on a swastika. This was before the advent of the Nazis and their 

more sinister use of the swastika emblem. I have never learned whether the badge has been redesigned 

since the war, I imagine it must have been. (this was changed in 1937] 

We all gained bricklaying experience and my woodworking abilities were put to use with the setting 

up of the roof rafters, fitting in the window frames and hanging the door. While all this was going on 

the plans for the main building were being worked out and it was decided to have a steel framed 

building. The steel work was made up by a firm in Burton on Trent for the incredibly small sum of (I 

think) £120.00. Before delivery we had dug out foundation holes for the main stanchions and had set 

in the fixing bolts with provision for more exact positioning later. With hindsight the level set for 

these foundations was too low. It was only later that it was realised that the use of this level would 

entail so much digging out of heavy clay soil to establish the floor level. 

I am afraid that this heavy digging discouraged some of our labour force and we lost a number of our 

workers and parents. It is on a project of this king that Baden-Powell’s quality of "stickability" is 

either discovered or lost according to temperament. During all this time of activity concerning the


headquarters the normal work of an active scout group continued. There were camps, treks and 

District competitions and of course money for materials had to be raised. Captain Bennett had some 

experience of stage productions. He had been a welfare officer at Leys Malleable Castings Company 

and he continued to produce some of the shows put on by the works entertainment group. He had a 

gift for painting stage scenery. He could also put together words and music for the various shows 

and pantomimes we presented. He had one failing in this however. He would still be cobbling 

together words and tunes of new songs up to a couple of days before the first performance. He 

seemed to think that the boys could perform his material 

with little or no time for rehearsal. The boys often had quite 

heavy homework loads from school as well as their 

scouting. Incredibly the short rehearsal time seemed to 

work. There was an entertainment committee chaired by a 

parent, Frank Stapleford. They undertook to raise not less 

than £100 a year towards the cost of H.Q. materials. Some 

years they doubled this amount. 

I had joined the troop in 1926 and I had applied myself to 

the various tests and badges. The term 

"Badge Hog" was applied by lazier members to those of us 

who wanted to learn all we could. I progressed to ‘second 

class’ quite quickly and to ‘first class’ by the end of 1927. A 

suitable group of subject badges was sewn on to my shirt 

and I also had green all round cords and a King Scout badge 

for several public service badges. I had been a Patrol Second 

for some time but with the first class I could become more 

exalted still and I became patrol leader of the Peewits, 

sometimes - known to envious members of the Rams, Owls, Swifts and Curlews as "half-wits". Apart 

from badge hogging the troop always had camps at Easter and Whitsuntide and a trek in the Peak 

District in the summer. 

We had a horse and cart to take the heavy gear from one campsite to the next. The younger boys 

would take a cross country route, sustained by a sandwich lunch. Two of the older chaps would take 

the horse and cart road to the new site. They would try to have the tents erected and have a hot 

meal cooking by the time the walkers arrived. Erecting the heavy Stormhaven tents in bad weather 

was no joke and some of the moorland campsites were very deficient in dead wood, or wood of any 

kind, for the cooking fire. 

Of course Primus stoves did not figure in our equipment. I went on trek first in 1926. In 1927 we 

made a visit to France, spending part of the time just outside Paris and getting flooded out on our 

first night. At this site we were vastly entertained by yarns from Major Macfarlane, a Canadian, who 

had been on secret service duties in the Great War. His first-hand stories of some of his adventure 

were utterly absorbing. He was married to a French lady and he owned the site which we were 

using. After the French trip we also had a camp in Calke Park. Calke Abbey has now been taken over 

by the National Trust. The former owner Sir Vancey Harpur-Crewe was an eccentric. Even when his 

married daughter, Mrs. Mosley, and her husband came down to visit they had to leave the car at the 

lodge gates and her father would send down the horse and trap to bring them up to the Abbey. Sir 

Vancey had died in about 1924 and Mrs Mosley, who knew Captain Bennett's family, allowed us to 

camp, something which would never have been considered in her father’s time.


The park was full of deer and quite a lot of unusual birds as it had been a sanctuary for so long. The 

head keeper had to cull one of the stags and we had some venison liver to cook. I also, while acting 

as orderly, managed to reduce a Dixie full of prunes to lumps of glowing charcoal. A watch would 

have helped us to keep better check on the boiling times but none of us owned one. This was not 

the best way to become popular. I think it may have been in 1928 that I led the troop team in the 

contest for the Drury-Lowe flag, which we won. 

By now more and more time had to be given to building the new headquarters. Sadly, also, at about 

this time there was some dissension between the two scout leaders. This split affected the labour 

pool which we could call upon for the building work and there was a period in which the work was 

continued by only a very small group of us. Some of the older members who fell away at this stage 

and never assisted in the building work at all found, when the hall was opened, that they had some 

leisure time after all and that the hall would nicely house a badminton court. Those of us who 

had built the hall now turned our attention to building patrol rooms, a kitchen and a Scouter's room. 

Captain Bennett had by now lost his house and garden to the building contractors and after a time 

he actually lived in his quarters at the H.Q. This took place after the war. The H.Q. had been used by 

the Home Guard during the war and the thumping of rifles on the wood block floor, all of which had 

been laid by my father, did it very little good. It is fair to say that some compensation was paid and 

the floor was renewed by Granwood blocks, which were more capable of coping with rough 

treatment. I should say that the troop still occupies the buildings which we put up and it has been a 

great pleasure to return to Derby in some recent years to join in the birthday celebrations of what 

must be the oldest troop in the country. Started in 1908 and still flourishing. 

To go back several years in my account of building the H.Q., I recall some of the hazards we 

encountered. One Christmas holiday was given over to erecting the roof trusses. A very tall scaffold 

pole was equipped with pulley blocks at the top and it was guy-roped in four directions. The second 

pulley was used to haul up a bosun's chair so that lashings to the trusses could be checked. I had 

been hauled up about halfway and I had just withdrawn my hands from the lashings when the large 

cast iron pulley from the main chain block dropped down before my face. The retaining pin had 

sheared and the pulley had eased its way off the shaft. Had it fallen a few seconds before, my head 

and hands would have been targeted and I might not even have survived to write this account so 

many years afterwards. 

The trusses had to be linked by angle iron struts and the stanchions were levered into correct level 

and alignment against a tautly drawn piano wire. The foundation bolts could then be tightened and 

the holes were then concreted in. We became used to the gymnastic work of bolting in the struts 

and glazing purlins. I think Fred Hoult sometimes chanced unnecessary risks at this stage but he 

was lucky and we avoided accidents. 

There was a foundation brick laying day when Aldermen Salisbury and Bemrose joined one of our 

building squads- (we had two- led by Fred Hoult and myself). Two courses on the end wall were laid, 

though some straightening work was needed when the Aldermen had gone and before the cement 

hardened. From then on brick-laying on the outer walls went ahead. Spare-time work by amateur 

labour necessarily made for slow progress and there were many wiseacres on the cinder path with 

gloomy forecasts. "They'll never finish it" was the most usual cry. Progress was not helped by the 

amount of pilfering from the site. The local DIY types on the new housing estate made off with a lot 

of tools and materials as the field fence had already been wrecked by vandals.


Security was a little better when we had the fence renewed but of course we could not run to a 

night watchman. Even after the glass and asbestos panels were put on the roof, some of the local 

yobs thought it funny to heave brick ends and see how many panels they could break. Of course we 

were all amateurs but some of us were more amateur than others. I was in general charge during 

several seasons. Because I had some craft skills, I had a 'straight eye' and could usually see at a 

glance when a pillar was not upright. When I had to point this out to someone senior in years, 

perhaps a parent, I did not always succeed in being tactful, though I tried to be. I know that I 

caused some offence to two of our helpers, but of course the tilted pillar had to come down and be 

rebuilt properly and it seemed that I was often the chap to do it. 

My father had become a useful bricklayer but when we had to consider the floor it seemed sensible 

to put the wood block laying into the hands of one person. We sought some advice from an 

experienced friend and father undertook the laying of all the blocks. Quite a few burned finger-ends 

ensued, as the blocks had to be dipped in boiling bitumen mastic. I made up the side lockers and 

hung the doors. There was an opening ceremony in 1936. We had started operations in 1930. There 

was still more work to do on the ancillary rooms and we transferred our labour to this task for the 

next two years. Though we claimed to have built the H.Q. ourselves, we were able to enlist the 

skilled help of Fred Hopkins, who looked after the plumbing, and a Rover Scout from another troop 

handled the electric wiring for us. 

Some of the entertainments which the scout group put on grew out of the shows which we did for 

the local hospitals at Christmas time but they also served to generate funds for our building efforts. 

One theme which did well for us was based upon the Emperor Nero and his efforts to dispose of his 

enemies, particularly his mother-in-law Agrippina. A special bed was made from which the victims 

could be dropped to the caverns below. Of course there were topical songs and the inevitable 

"beaut/' chorus. 

There was also a pageant of St George with a fire-breathing dragon. Another display was done with 

Indian clubs on a darkened stage with the clubs drilled out to take torch batteries with mini bulbs on 

the ends of the clubs. We also had a circus knife-throwing act, which was so convincing that the 

parents of the 'victim' had to be let into the secret of the 'throwing' as they were worried about 

safety. 

Later, when I had been doing some singing engagements, some of them to oblige other artistes, I 

persuaded these friends to come and sing for me in return and again the profits from such ventures 

were spent on building materials. I remember getting a harpist friend to perform but we had to incur 

the cost of a van to transport the harp. 

The musical part of these concerts often ended with a one-act play. I remember Captain Bennett put 

on a convincing 'cockney' performance as a scruffy burglar in "The Burglar and the Girl". 

The great event in Scouting in 1929 was the World Jamboree in Arrowe Park, Birkenhead. It had 

been agreed that the Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire contingents would stage episodes from the 

life of Robin Hood. The particular adventure was to be when Robin tricked the Bishop of Hereford. 

Well beforehand a group of us had been formed to act as the Bishop's bodyguard. We were 

measured for our splendid costumes. We then went to the local Territorial Hall where the officer in 

charge had agreed to give us some riding tuition. I think we were there on about six occasions. In 

Birkenhead arrangements had been made to borrow horses from a local riding school.


The school let us down - there were no horses after all. Two of the Scouters toured the area and 

obtained motley collection of mounts. Some had been pulling baker’s carts and had never been 

saddled before. Apart from the motley mounts the 'tack' was also very variable in age, quality and 

fit. We had a rehearsal with these mounts and it was clear that these horses did not like their riders 

very much. I got a nasty gash on the inside of my thigh when the mount tried to buck me off. 

Norman Berry had helped me to saddle up but he forgot to draw up the girth buckle under the 

saddle flap. Each time the horse went up and down the buckle was gouging my leg. We were still in 

shorts for this rehearsal. In performance when we had the splendid costumes, the mounts were 

unused to such sights and they were more restive than ever. 

We had a flock of sheep and a real shepherd with his dogs (Mr. Priestley from Hathersage). The story 

was that the Bishop riding through the forest demanded tithes of the shepherds. The ‘shepherds’ 

flung off their smocks to reveal the Lincoln Green beneath. The guards dismounted and fought handto-hand 

but they were, of course, defeated. They had to run back to their horses, mount and gallop 

off, pursued by a flight of arrows. Time was lost because of the restive horses and the arrows, 

(fortunately not barbed), were falling among us instead of falling short as had been planned. Anyway 

we galloped off as the Bishop was taken prisoner. A deer was ‘shot’ and cooked over the campfire. 

The Bishop had his toes rapped to make him dance. He disgorged his money to the outlaws and he 

was then tied backwards on to his pony and sent on his way. 

The money was then given to some poor peasants who then appeared just at the right moment. We 

did the show twice and managed rather better at the second attempt. We made some good friends 

among the foreign contingents and there was a lot of laughter at some of the national foibles. Lord 

Baden-Powell came to look at the big model of the incredibly sized ram at the entrance to the 

Derbyshire camp. 

Some of my boyhood adventures cropped up at scout camps. At Easter we went to Sandybrook Hallthe 

home of Mr & Mrs Peveril Turnbull. Mr Turnbull had been a district scout commissioner but had 

had lately died when I went to Sandybrook first. 

His widow was then 78 and she was getting her chauffeur to teach her to drive. She lived to a great 

age and she was always kind to us. Another kind lady at this time was Mrs Oakover of Oakover Hall 

in Mapleton Village in the Dove Valley. On Easter Monday the Troop was invited to tea, an enormous 

meal served by the butler, cooks and housemaids. One year I counted the varieties of cake and made 

it 23. Sadly I think I only managed 22 of them. After the meal a football was produced and we played 

Ashbourne Football between two small bridges over the brook. Ashbourne Football is still played on 

Shrove Tuesdays when all the shopkeepers board up their windows and the game, which has no 

rules or any limit on the number of players, is played through the town. More time being spent in 

the river Henmore than anywhere else. 

Our Oakover football was of the same order and there were quite a few sodden shirts and 

shorts. How we managed to play after all those cakes is a miracle. Another Easter adventure from 

Sandybrook was to traverse Dovedale by night. We had a meal earlier than usual on the Good Friday 

evening and we were up again at 2 a.m. After a dollop of porridge, we set off for Thorpe Village, 

walked quietly through the Hotel grounds, skirted Thorpe Cloud Hill and we were into the dale- and 

very cold. As the sun came up it shone first on the left-hand cliff top like a bright wall but it was not 

until we reached Dove Holes caves that the valley opened up enough to let any sun in to warm us 

up. We continued up Milldale, Wolfscote and Beresford Dales to Hartington and a road walk down 

to Hulme End in the Manifold Valley. The light railway was still extant then. We followed the track


down to Wetton and Thor's Cave and made a cut across country back to the Dove. There was no 

bridge and we removed our shoes and waded across- the cold water up to our thighs. More crosscountry 

walking back to the Buxton Road by New Inns and then down the road to Sandybrook. We 

were there by soon after 12 o’clock. We had a meal and played football in the afternoon. 

We looked up our route on the one-inch map and it seemed to be about thirty-two miles. We must 

have been mad, but I remember the hike so well after all these years. Perhaps that is why we do 

such things - to add to the store of memories for old men like me. 

Scouting frequently indulges in games of a semi war-like nature. One kills off an opponent by 

grabbing the scarf tucked in his belt. We had one such game when we were at Calke Park. It was a 

very hot day and we were all wearing just our shorts and pumps. I came up with Mr. Treadgold who 

was on the 'enemy' side and I tried to grab his scarf. He thrust me away and I rolled into a bed of 

nettles with results that can be imagined. It was bad enough at the time but trying to sleep after 

lights out was even worse. Stan Coleman was with us and, as a trainee chemist, he had some salves 

with him. I was grateful for anything soothing. 

Occasionally we ran a weekend game based on the idea that the chaps who could be free on Friday 

night were rustlers. They had to pitch their small tents in a map defined area about five miles 

square. The tents were not to be more than 50 yards from a mapped road. Then the rest of the 

troop who could only get away on the Saturday became the sheriff’s posse. If the groups made 

contact we would then camp together and go to the village church on the Sunday Morning. I was in 

the Friday group for one of these games. The posse had even collected Captain Bennett's dog hoping 

to track us down. 

The dog was quite useless, but anyway the posse caught up with us in the open and we were then 

expected to lead them back to our camp. We led them into a field full of stooks of corn and when we 

reached the top of the field there were some grumbles that this was more than 50 yards from the 

lane. We had whispered to each other that we would lead our ‘captors' past our tents. With the 

farmer’s permission we had undone three of the corn stooks, put up our tents underneath and 

replaced the corn. We had led our ‘captors’ past these stooks without any of them suspecting where 

the camp might be. 

Our Whitsuntide camps were at Mackworth, where we had excellent relations with the farmer for 

many years. The Markeaton Brook ran through the fields and on Whit Monday morning the sheep 

washing took place. Planks were laid up to the brick bridge to deepen the water. Hurdle frames on 

the top enclosed the sheep. The farm men were in the water in old clothes up to chest deep. As each 

animal was pushed in it was seized by the legs and swilled around by the men before being released 

to the second pen. It was tiring work and after a while some beer or hot drinks were sent down the 

lane to refresh the workers. One odd thing I noticed. The men would not drink while they were still 

in the water. They always climbed out. I asked one of them one day why this was the standard 

practice. He looked at me in rather a pitying fashion as if I was silly to ask such a question. He 

explained that science had discovered that liquids always found their own level and that if they had 

drunk the beer while still in the water it would not have gone down into their stomachs at all but 

would stop at chest level. It was not just one man who believed this. They all did. Isn’t science 

wonderful! 

As if the exertions of sheep washing had not been enough, there was a longstanding tradition that 

the scouts would play a football match on the field behind the Munday Arms on bank holiday 

Monday evening. In earlier years this had been a rather a scrappy affair - the farm workers turning


out in their old boots and clothing and sometimes well lined with beer. In these encounters the 

nimble boys had run rings round the locals and piled up big scores. One could imagine that the 

Munday Arms taproom had seen a village meeting about this and more active and younger players 

had been recruited, some of them from more distant villages. Of course too there was now a 

valuable trophy to play for. In a previous year, while exploring the brook course, Mr. Treadgold had 

found a copper bowl, oval in shape, which may indeed have had a history. Quite a lot of work was 

done to knock out the dents and mount the cup on a suitable wooden base. Some engraving and 

plating was done also and the name of the valuable trophy was the KYBO Cup. After the plating it 

looked quite good, but why KYBO, some of the innocents wanted to know. Well, it is the motto of 

one of the patrols, was the usual answer. Persistent enquirers at last discovered that KYBO is an 

acronym for the very healthy motto- "Keep your bowels open". Some of the more genteel mothers 

were slightly shocked at this revelation but they should have been grateful for this stirring motto for 

good health. Bowels were not normally mentioned by polite people in the 1920s. 

One of our regular campsites was the Doctor's field in Castleton. This was near the centre of this 

small town and the residents came down to the ends of their gardens to look over the stone wall 

and listen to our campfire songs. One year we had been in the field for two days before we actually 

saw the Doctor. Quite casually, as he was leaving, he said, "by the way, what water are you using?" 

We said "from the usual spring where it spills into the brook". He said that perhaps we should not 

use this source, as there had been a few cases of paratyphoid in the village within some recent 

months. 

Rather too casual for our peace of mind. It was at Castleton that one group of five boys were fast 

asleep in one tent when all the other tent inhabitants were up. Someone suggested that, with care, 

the ropes and brailing loops could be lifted off and the tent removed. This stealthy operation 

actually succeeded and the amazed boys awoke some minutes after and they could not imagine 

what he become of the tent. 

One year we had lent one of our Stormhaven tents to another troop and we then found ourselves 

short for our own trek camp round the Peak. We were in a small field at Hayfield, not far from 

Glossop. Our horse had not been tied up and we had heard him stamping round. Whether he 

tripped over a guy rope we do not know, but the strain was enough to tear off the rotten top cone of 

the tent, which then slipped down the pole and smothered us in wet canvas. We took shelter in a 

barn. It was clear that the bell tent could not be mended or used again but someone thought that a 

few of the older chaps could sleep on a groundsheet up to the wheels of the cart and that the A 

shaped cover of the cart could be pegged further out on poles and make us a shelter open at the 

sides. 

This was quite successful until we got to Lea Green. There was heavy rain in the night and we 

noticed as we awoke that the canvas had sagged downwards and was holding quite a lot of water. 

John Read, a Rover scout with a rather squeaky voice had been first up and was standing at the edge 

of the ground sheet in his pyjamas. Fred Hopkins, next to me, became conscious of the suspended 

water just then and gave it a strong push from below. John Read got the full deluge and he danced 

around, vowing in his squeaky voice that Fred had done this on purpose. To be fair, I don't think Fred 

had noticed the standing figure at all but we heard the squeaky grumbles for a long time afterwards. 

After the trek ended we took back the remains of the bell tent to Mr. Banks, the hirer, and told him a 

few things about the quality of his hiring goods. We were none of us used to horses and sometimes 

a horse who had been grass-feeding all night decided that he did not want to be caught and


harnessed and became very skittish. A large squad was required to catch him and this delayed our 

starts. One year we could not get a horse at all but Mr. Allen, one of the parents, lent us a bull-nosed 

Morris car with a driver and ball hitch for the trek cart. The Morris was in no way equal to pulling the 

load up some of the sharp Peak gradients. We were in the lowest gear but we could not manage a 

hairpin bend on the steep hill near Langsett. 

Everything we had begun to run backwards towards a ditch. Fortunately I had expected trouble and I 

had armed myself with two rocks, which I managed to wedge under the wheels. We could see a local 

farmer in the field above, working with two splendid horses. When we explained the trouble they 

brought down the horses and they quite easily drew us up and out of trouble. It was beautiful to see 

the rippling equine muscles under the gleaming skin of the animals. I have had a soft spot for Shires 

and Percherons ever since. It was in 1935 that a few of us in the Rover Scouts heard of a cheap car. It 

was an old Morris Oxford 1928 and the owner wanted £8 for it. Two of my friends talked him down 

to £5.10 and five of us part-shared. I learned to drive on it but we did not own it for long. As one of 

our members was coming home on a dark night on a country road the lights failed, and he ran off 

the road into a telegraph pole. This distorted the frame beyond repair. So that was the end of the 

car we had called 'Marina'. The remnants went to a scrap dealer for, I think, £3.00.


Memories of Mick Taylor 

It must be nearly thirty years since I was last in contact with the 4th Derby, but as the group is now 

looking at its 100 year birthday, that number doesn't look as daunting as it might. I’ve not lived in 

Derby for over 30 years now, but members of my family still do and it was them who sent me the 

cutting from the Evening Telegraph's Bygones. 

They recognised a young cub, and scout, 

looking out from those wonderful 

photographs. I’m the one with thick black 

hair, now silver, youthful clean shaven 

features that have been covered with a 

beard for many years and I can't remember 

having knees like those! 

So it's time for reintroductions. I'm Mick 

Taylor. I'm sitting on the extreme right of 

the photograph celebrating winning the 

cub trophy. On my immediate left, 

standing is a lad called John Sallis if my 

ageing memory can be trusted? I am more 

sure of myself when I identify Peter 

Cholerton holding the trophy. Pete went on right through Scouts and Venture Scouts with me. 

Pete(?) Matthews is standing on the left of the team, (Pat and Sylvia were Assistant Cub Leaders) 

Seated on the left is one of the Wightman brothers, I think it was Richard, Graham was older. I'm 

afraid the final team mate has me beaten. The year was probably 1963 or 64, when Mrs Perkins was 

our Akela. 

Mrs Perkins is of course sitting in the 

centre of the group photo taken outside 

of Derwent Hall, but by that time I'd 

moved up to the Scouts and I think I'm 

sitting in the row behind her, but the 

photograph isn't that clear. Under the 

leadership of Jim Lingard and Ron 

Adamson, I progressed through the 

ranks of the Curlew and Peewit patrols, 

ending up as Patrol Leader of the Owls. 

By that time my hair was almost as wild 

as Alan Smith’s (Extreme Left 2nd Row) 

so that my beret never fitted. 

My third photographic appearance is in the ranks of the Evergreen cast. This was one of several 

shows that I appeared in and I can still remember many of the words and tunes. Memory does 

strange things; I can never remember where I’ve left my car keys, but I can still sing every word of 

the traditional campfire songs.


Although 4 I don't have the photographs, I have very clear pictures in my mind of countless 

occasions and events, places and people that made my time in the group important stages 

in my life. 

The Bygones feature carried one photo from one of the Ramborees at Chatsworth (probably 

the first one?). I have memories of other times as guests of the Duke; once teaching canoeing in the 

“private" pond on the estate and the other serving as "site engineers" i.e. emptying the chemical 

toilets. Camps were a major part of my scouting experience and there were memorable visits to 

Drum Hill, Mayfield, Foston, Horsley and Christmas at Chapel-en-Ie-Frith. The best camps were 

Easter of course in Calke Park. Plus, there were the trips further afield; a wonderful trip to Aviemore 

and the Cairngorms (with Keith Johnson as Leader), The Lake District, Snowdonia and the "Exit" 

camp on Anglesey. 

It was through scouts and particularly the Venture Unit that I found my love of the outdoors. There 

was rock-climbing at Black Rocks, canoeing on the Trent and sailing at Rudyard Lake. I can recall my 

first ascent and subsequent bog-hopping excursions across Kinder. I'm still expecting Poly-bag 

Tobogganing to make its appearance as a Winter Olympic sport. One of my last engagements with 

the Derwents was when I completed the Four Inns with the late Brian Boot. Memories are often 

tinged with sadness. 

I left Derby when I went off to University in Scotland, then Sheffield and finally settled in the East 

Riding of Yorkshire where I've enjoyed a successful career in teaching. Although I’ve not been part of 

the Scout Movement (what other group could have taken the place of the 4th Derwent?), I still 

regularly take groups of teenagers up into the North York Moors and Dales to show them that 

education doesn't stop in the classroom. That’s a principle I learned from those leaders that I had 

the privilege of working with. 

Mick Taylor 

Former "comrades"... 

Alan Smith Ian Royle Rob Carmen 

Rog Poole Rob Barker Phil Alderman 

Rob Swanwick Will Asher Pete Cholerton 

Dave Cholerton Dave Mears Kev Drakely


Memories of Paul Cooper 

Thank you for your invite to the celebrations, hope you received the photographs which I'll explain 

below. I will send a separate reply by post to confirm that I will attend the lunch and church service 

on the 16th with my brother, Anthony who is on one of the photographs. You certainly have stirred 

up some memories of countless hours spent at H.Q. and on all sorts of associated activities. I have 

happy memories of spending anything up to five nights a week at H.Q. during the late fifies and of 

camping at Calke at Easter, New Year at Chapel-en-le Frith in the scout hut, St George's Day parades, 

reading the scout law to the congregation at the Cathedral, Saturday night Grub nights, swimming 

galas, Drury Lowe competitions at Locko Park Spondon, Cross-country events at Markeaton and a 

host of other activities. Most of all though I remember the people - Captain Bennett, Ron Adamson 

,Mrs Perkins, Mr Holtham, Jim Lingard, Polly Perkins, Keith Johnson just to name the leaders. 

I joined the cubs in 1953 and quickly learnt to sit in a straight line with my legs crossed, an ability 

that seems to have long deserted me. I started in the middle, graduated to the back of the line as 

seconder and eventually made it to the front as sixer of the red six. For three years I was introduced 

to skills and games by Akela, (Mrs Perkins) and her helpers. I remember it as a happy time but it 

passed too quickly and I vividly remember how nervous I was when it was time to move up to the 

scouts. 

The transfer evening was an important occasion and it was quite daunting to join the ‘big boys’ and 

start at the bottom once again- some of the scouts were enormous. My fears were short-lived and I 

joined the Ram patrol under the leadership of Dave Neal with John Simmons, Keith Whiteman and 

Alan Smith some of the other members. I thought the patrol den was wonderful and spent many 

hours cleaning it, rearranging it and seeking new furniture and fitments. We spent four or five nights 

a week at headquarters- badge work, planning camps and walks, caring for equipment, soccer in the 

hall, training for cross-country championships and visiting Captain Bennett- ‘down the corridor’.


Winning cross country team at Markeaton, 1959 with Ray Timmins, John Keith, Lord Mayor I believe, 

John Simmonds, winner of the National title at Parliament Hill Fields, Anthony Cooper, Michael, 

myself, John and David Holtham (This photo also included in Ray Thompson’s memories) 

Visiting C.J. was an occasion to remember, we had great respect for him and were in awe of him yet 

failed to fully understand his situation. He taught us knots and first aid and camp craft, I recall 

listening very carefully and ensuring I had learnt all I should before the next visit. He was finding it 

difficult to walk and beginning to leave his room less frequently but it was a shock to learn of his 

death. I was permitted to wear scout uniform to school before attending his funeral. This was my 

first attendance at a funeral. We lined the path to St. Giles in silent tribute and felt this was the 

passing of a very important and famous man. 

I eventually became the Ram patrol leader and 

then Troop leader before joining the Rovers for 

one year prior to leaving Derby for college. In 

retrospect, fifty and more years later, it is only 

now that I realise how important these scouting 

activities were in my formative years and that 

many of the skills and abilities I learnt I have 

used all my life. Certain activities and events 

remain more firmly in the memory and I will 

make mention of them here. 

The most significant activities to me were those 

of camping and walking – midnight hikes to 

Dovedale, the wonders of Kinderscout at New 

Year when we stayed at the scout hut in Chapelen-le 

Frith but above all camping at Calke Park. I 

was part of the camp at Easter with Jim Lingard 

for five consecutive years in the late fifties and early sixties. Up early after a not always comfortable 

night in the Stormhaven, a cooked breakfast eaten and cleared away, kit laid out for inspection, 

sides of the tent rolled up and the groundsheet out with all the patrol’s kit in perfect order- all by 

10.00. 1 remember considerable amounts of snow one year, being quartermaster on one camp and 

one 

year, as troop leader, calling at 

the house, (before the National 

Trust arrived), to escort Henry to 

church. There isn’t a National 

Trust steward at the house who 

doesn’t know the story! 

In the eighties when showing 

friends the park and our old 

camping site I was amazed to see 

the Stormhavens there at Easter 

and even more amazed and 

delighted to meet up with Jim 

again. Did we leave the porridge on all night so it was ready for the morning? If so did we conform to


Health and Safety law? We had some amazing wide games in the evening and went to bed on a cup 

of soup- which is probably why we didn’t sleep well! 

We put the skills learnt at Calke to good use when competing for the Drury-Lowe camping trophy, 

which was held annually at Locko Park, Spondon. It was always a demanding weekend, arriving 

Friday evening and being inspected on our camping skills through until Sunday lunchtime. We were 

delighted in our fiftieth anniversary year to win both the Senior and Junior competitions, I was in the 

Junior team and my brother, Tony, in the Seniors. Our success was well heralded at the 50th 

Anniversary Birthday party held in the hall in Village St. It was a splendid tea followed by a troop 

meeting attended by a large number of former scouts invited to join in the celebrations. They were 

individually introduced and I couldn’t believe how old they all were- and still alive after all those 

years! 

The Drury-Lowe was not our only 

district success- we had a very good 

cross-country team. The annual 

championships were held at Markeaton 

Park. Team training took place for 

weeks before under the supervision of 

John Simmons, another Ram patrol 

leader. We were very successful and 

certainly won it one year though John 

helped considerably by easily coming 

first out of over two hundred runners. He later won the National Championships at Parliament Hill 

Fields and brought much publicity and acclaim to the troop. John later organised two splendid Youth 

Hostelling holidays for the patrol and we completed some pretty tough walks in Snowdonia and the 

following year walked in the Cairngorms. One memorable day we completed 25 miles! 

The Youth Hostel had almost given up on us when we arrived late at night after a thirteen hour walk 

in very harsh conditions. The same group from the patrol went to stay at Crowden Head in a bam to 

celebrate the New Year >ugh was six feet deep in snow and the bam has been burnt


down the previous year. Fortunately we reached a 

mountain hut owned by Barnsley Mountaineering 

Club and were welcomed to join their New Year 

Party and to stay the night. We didn’t need a bed as 

everyone stayed up all night celebrating, our 

parents never knew! Me (Paul Cooper), 33rd out of 

200+, Mike was first by miles. 

Thinking back I’m amazed at how much walking we 

actually did, I always walked to Cubs, a four mile 

round trip, in the dark on my own. St. George’s Day 

parade was almost a marathon. We marched, with 

the flag, from headquarters to Derby Cathedral and 

back calling for our 41% great rivals 20 Augustine’s 

on the way. I was roped in one year to read the 

Scout Law to the assembled mass congregation at 

the Cathedral and was delighted to be walking back 

after my first public speech. Unfortunately we were 

not dropped off at Calke Park by four by four but 

walked from H.Q. to Ticknall pulling all our equipment on the trusty trek cart. Tough times no 

wonder all the old scouts invited back to troop birthdays live so long! Great fun and enjoyment came 

from two other events that spring to mind. Ian Barge wrote a revue one year which was a great 

success. Does anyone else remember the sketch based on Macbeth? “Round and round the cauldron 

go, Greta, Veronica and Flo.? The other event was far more frequent and it was the Saturday Grub 

nights. Patrols took it in turns, once a month, to host a grub night when they provided food and 

organised activities for the other patrols. 

All profits went into patrol funds and two pounds seven and six was a small fortune. My only major 

disappointment was when I and Chris Rodgers attended Drum Hill for a selection weekend to join 

the Derbyshire contingent to travel to the World Jamboree in Marathon, Greece. We had to cook a 

casserole on a wood fire and my mother had put an Oxo cube in for me. I hadn’t used one before 

and when I opened it I thought it was off and threw it away! That’s why I didn’t go to Greece and 

Chris did, it still upsets me when I open a cube to this day! 

If anyone has managed to stay awake thus far I think it is time for me to stop rambling on.... being a 

member of the 4lh Derby was one of the most sensible things I did in my youth-the skills learnt are 

still with me and those that I’m too old to practise are firmly in my memory. My very best wishes to 

all former and current scouts. 

Paul Cooper, fifty five years later, 17/09/08


I believe this is of the 4 th Rovers, taken on 16/08/34 at somewhere 

beginning with B - the photo has my father Jack, 17 at the time, 

seated fifth from the left and his brother Jo seated 1 st on the left. 

Kinderscout I believe probably 59 or 60 with David P. Keith Johnson, 

Keith Whiteman, Ralph Timmins, Michael P., David Kirk and 

Paul Cooper clad in very dubious waterproofs.


Memories of Gordon Sheldon 

I joined the 4th Derby (Derwent) Wolf Cub pack in 1930, when I was nine. Akela at the time was Miss 

Hammond, a formidable lady, later succeeded by Elsie Glover, a milder soul. 

I went up to the troop when I was eleven. Headquarters was then at Normanton Cottage, where 

CJB’s man Gell held sway and kept us boys well in order. Soon after that work started on Derwent 

Hall. I learned to lay a mean brick. I think the Clerk of the works, as it were, was Mr Winfield, a 

builder and father of Harold Winfield, a rover much revered by us lesser lights. My father was among 

the many parents who helped with the building. 

I was in Owl patrol, led then by Jack Pass. David Clark was also in the patrol. There were four patrols 

in the troop- Owls, Swifts, Rams and Curlews. Later another was formed- Peewits- and I became 

Patrol Leader. 

CJ Bennett was a stem but kindly disciplinarian. He had fixed ideas about how the Troop and ‘his’ 

scouts should be run, Sometimes contrary to what the London HQ laid down. Once sworn in a Scout 

began to train for his Second Class Badge. Once he had attained it he could, according to HQ, work 

to gain proficiency badges in a multitude of skills ranging from archery to wood chopping. 

Meanwhile he could set out to attain his First Class Badge, which in conjunction with proficiency 

badges could lead to appointment as a King’s Scout. In the Derwents, however, CJB insisted that 

scouts should not embark on what was called scathingly ‘badge hunting’ until they had won the First 

Class Badge. His view was that there should be a natural progression from Second Class to First 

Class, then to proficiency badges and so on. 

1 st class badge 2 nd class badge 

He was a stickler for correct tum-out and was adamant that uniforms should be, well, uniform. Our 

shirts had to be the regulation scout shirt bought from the scout shop or the one other retailer in 

Derby that sold them. Shorts had to be made from a special and singular khaki corduroy material 

available from only one tailor in town. This stuff was stiffly dressed with some preservative which 

made it smell like an old neglected goat. Once collected from the tailor and carried home on the bus, 

wrapped in brown paper, the shorts had to be washed at least three times before they could be 

worn in decent society. A boy whose shorts were not so washed could be spotted by nose a quarter 

of a mile away. As time and the shorts wore they became whiter and whiter and had to be replaced. 

This didn’t matter too much because growing lads soon outgrew a pair of shorts anyway.


CJB wasn’t too keen on ad hoc camping, except for camps aimed at acquiring the camping badge. He 

preferred organised troop camps of which there were three each year. Two were standing camps of 

four to five days, at Easter and Whitsun; summer camp was a long trek lasting from two to three 

weeks, moving on from campsite to campsite each day. 

Easter camp was held in the loft, blacksmith’s shop and bothy of Sandybrook Hall, a large country 

house to the north of Ashbourne, on the Ashbourne-Buxton Road. The house was owned by a Mrs 

Turnbull, widow of Peveril Turnbull, who had died in 1926. We walked the sixteen miles or so from 

Derby to Ashbourne, hauling a two wheeled trek cart carrying our cooking gear, general equipment, 

stores and personal baggage. The trek cart was fitted with T-bar and drag ropes, the latter used for 

pulling uphill, or holding back when going downhill. The difference was irrelevant to me, because I 

was convinced that we were always going uphill, whether on the way there or on the way back. 

We slept in the loft, the blacksmith’s shop became our cookhouse and we used the stables for all 

sorts of adventurous games. The highlight of the Easter camp was the Good Friday midnight hike 

down Dovedale, one of the Peak District’s many beautiful dales. We set out from Sandybrook Hall at 

around nine o’clock and walked north to Alsop en le Dale where we paused at the New Inn hotel for 

cocoa and sandwiches. Shortly before midnight we clambered down into Dovedale and set out south 

along the narrow path alongside the river Dove, skirting the great scree’s where stones and rocks 

had tumbled down from great heights. Some years it was bright moonlight, others it was forbidding 

darkness. One year it snowed heavily, adding to the sense of excitement and adventure not 

according to my younger brother who, when he became old enough to take part viewed the whole 

enterprise with great misgiving and thought I was mad). We reached Thorpe village at the southern 

end of the Dale and hiked back to camp to arrive back for breakfast. 

Whitsun camp was held at Mackworth, then a small village about five miles north-west of Derby. 

This time the trek cart also carried our tents. We camped in a sloping meadow behind the pub. A 

stream at the bottom of the slope was our playground in which we could frolic, zoom from bank to 

bank on a flying fox we rigged up and generally got wet. 

The highlight of the Mackworth camp was the annual football match between the older scouts and 

rovers and the village team. The game was played for the KYBO cup, a trophy consisting of the 

battered lid of an old silver soup tureen nailed upside down on a wooden plinth with a plate on 

which the names of winners were engraved. Sometimes we won sometimes they did. The name of 

the cup is not a mysterious witch doctors chant from the African bush, nor a spy’s message from 

Kipling’s North West Frontier Province. It simply meant, in stark simplicity, Keep Your Bowels Open. 

For the summer trek we used a trek cart, built by the older scouts and parents on an old car chassis 

with rubber tyred wheels. A series of lockers ran around the outer edge, leaving a well in the middle 

for heavy gear. The lockers contained food, cooking equipment and so on. The cart was a bit like the 

old South African laager wagon. It had shafts and a retired pit pony was hired to pull it along. We 

stayed at a different site each night and walked some fourteen to fifteen miles a day. CJB and two 

scouts appointed daily orderlies travelled by road with the trek cart; the rest hiked across country. 

The idea was that the two parties would arrive at the night’s site at more or less the same time. It 

didn’t always happen. On one occasion the pony couldn’t make it up a steep hill, so CJ borrowed a 

Clydesdale from a nearby farm. It wasn’t charity the farmer insisted CJ and 

the two orderlies first help him with his haymaking, with the result that the trek cart party didn’t 

arrive at the night’s site until about midnight dubiously lit by a hurricane lamps, as we were settling


down to sleep, without our bedding, in an old chicken house. The summer trek took us northward up 

the east side of Derbyshire, through places like Bakewell, Stoney Middleton, Hathersage, Bamford, 

Castleton, across the High Peak to Glossop and then down the western edge of the county, into 

Staffordshire and home. 

Once, when I was twelve, camping arrangements went adrift and we had to do two stretches in one 

day, more than twenty-five miles. I have a shuddering memory of the last day of one Easter camp (I 

was fourteen) when we had had prunes and milk for breakfast. Ron (‘Beefy’ to us, but not in front of 

his mother, a large and defensive lady) Holland was an orderly. After breakfast he called out: “some 

prunes left over. Who wants them?” I liked prunes so I took them and ate them all. 

There were forty nine, I counted the stones. A little later we set out on the sixteen mile hike home 

and it wasn’t long before the prunes demonstrated their efficiency. I dropped back and called at first 

one cottage and then another. I think I got to know every privy almost all the way back to Derby, dry 

and flush, inside and out, until I was rescued by a car driver (and cars were a lot rarer in those days) 

who turned out to be Alf Pegg, my violin teacher. If nothing else, on that day I once again learnt the 

dire meaning of the phrase KYBO. 

In 1937 a contingent of the 4 went to the World Jamboree at Volgelenzang in Holland. I have an idea 

that CJB decided to take only King’s Scouts, which limited the party, but inevitably David Clark, Cyril 

Warden and I were included. It was an unforgettable experience. We sailed with all the other UK 

contingents from Harwich to the Hook of Holland in a ferry boat (paddle) chartered by the 

association. One inconsequential detail I remember is that it was in Holland that we were first 

introduced to Salami which came with the rations. We dubbed it snake meat.


5th World Jamboree – 

Vogelenzang, Holland, 1937 

This Jamboree is remembered more particularly as the last Jamboree B-P. was able to attend before 

his death in January 1941. Queen Wilhelmina opened the Jamboree and before her were assembled 

27,000 Scouts from 51 countries - including 8,000 from the British Commonwealth. B-P. was 81 

when he attended the Jamboree and in his message to Scouts of the world, he said: 

“... I am nearing the end of my life. Most of you are at the beginning, and I want your lives to be 

happy and successful. You can make them so by doing your best to carry out the Scout Law all your 

days, whatever your station and wherever you are ... Now goodbye. 

God bless you all! God bless you!” 

It was as though he knew he would not be able to attend another Jamboree and was giving his 

blessing to the Scouts of all nations.


Scouting during the war. 

What it was like to be a scout in the 4th Derby in 1940. 

I thought I would write about my early days in the 4th Derwents. There was very little to do in 1940, 

because the War had closed most of the activities for young people. It was considered to be too 

dangerous to be away from home in the Black-out and the imminent threat of air-raids. 

So how did the Scouts cope with this? Well the corridor windows were blacked out with brown 

paper frames on the inside and chicken wire shutters on the outside, a fire watching duty of senior 

P/L’s slept in the H.Q. on a weekly rota basis, but this soon fell through, because of worried parents, 

especially when air-raids were sounded, hence Capt. Bennett moved into the Scout Headquarters 

from Randolph Road. Older Scouts that lived in your area escorted the younger Scouts home. 

There were four patrols. The present Rams den being a workshop containing the bench and an 

assortment of Motley tools. The A/PL’s were Laurie Evans, Peter Hockam, John Wheatley and 

Vernon Sheldon, ably assisted by Ken Evans, Dusty Miller and Gordon Sheldon. The Scoutmaster was 

Len Stapleford, who always impressed me with his impeccable Scout uniform, and of course in the 

background was the elderly C.J. Bennett (CJ to the scouts). 

The programme was as follows, Monday Night test passing night, Friday troop night (uniform to be 

worn). The second and third Saturday of the month Games night, the last Saturday troop 

competition and the first Saturday was the monthly troop meeting. 

Investitures and badges were presented only at this meeting. The third Sunday we had to go to 

evensong with C.J. and sit in one pew together, in our best suits. After this at 8.00 we walked around 

Cabbage Row in the H.Q. for the Court of Honour. 

Some Saturdays we arrived at the H.Q. at 10 o’clock with some tuck, and armed with forks we went 

onto the top field to tend the crop of “Dig For Victory” potatoes. Then down to the kitchen and 

Beans or Poached Egg on Toast was prepared and we would sit around the wooden table as a family, 

with the table set as best as possible. 

We would don shorts, pullovers and pumps for the games night organised by the Duty P/L of the 

week — games such as British Bulldog, Hopping Johnny, Dog and a Bone, Tennis Ball Football, Crusts 

and Crumbs and O’Grady were some of my favourites. This was rounded off by a canteen with 

Australian Relief Cocoa served by the canteen patrol, thin and sludgy, it still went down well. 

The P/L’s stop appearing when they were called up for the forces so it was a thrill to see them on 

their first leave home transformed from Scout to Service Uniform. We eagerly listened to their tall 

stories about the war. The exploits of Sergeant Pilot George Van Sheick, a Battle of Britain fighter 

pilot, followed step by step, and we proud when he was awarded the D.F.C. for Gallantry, and later 

terribly sad when he was shot down. 

The hall was used by the Home Guard for drill, and the Capt. Mannering of the day could be 

observed through an open door. They carried wooden rifles, as there was a shortage of real Enfields. 

The corridor was converted into a small arms pistol range, with sandbags near the present activity


room door. There were no cars so everybody cycled or shank’s pony. The cycles were left in the 

corridor and they were always so dangerous to legs. 

These are some of my first impressions when you first join at a tender age from Miss Corbetts, Cub 

pack, you were looked after by your 18 year old P/L and two seconds. I was so proud to be a 

member of the Curlew patrol. There was an adult feeling that activities were manly, challenging and 

adventurous, and could not be found at the school or at the church. 

It was impulsive to want to be there in case you missed anything. To miss a camp was a punishment 

and parent’s holidays had to be away for camp dates. The comradeship and esprit-de-corps was 

electric and you just had to be in the 4th if you lived in the Normanton area. 

There was a song we used to sing called 

“Play up Derwents” 

And we surely did that!! 

J.A.Lingard 

Scout Leader.


Memories of Sean Seal 

I was in the beavers which is pictured in the telegraph. I’m front row third from the left and also the 

cubs. It was taken round about the mid-80s. I believe 85 / 86. 

My mum called Susan Seal (then Sue Plunkett) at the time started the beavers at the 4th Derby 

(Derwent) She tried to enrol me in the cubs but I was too young. Ada Perkins the cub leader at the 

time said that I could join the beavers but that they didn’t have anybody to run it. So my mum said 

she would run it with the help from Aida this is how beavers started at the 4 th Derby Derwent on 

Coleridge St. After then the locals flocked. Other people I remember from the photo off the top of 

my head are Gary McDonald, Nathanial Hardy, Owen and Adam Bumford, Mark Coxon. 

With my mum starting the beaver chapter and getting me enrolled leads me on the next story Below 

My everlasting memory is when we all went on a Beaver trip to Amsterdam and while crab fishing 

one day along the banks of a river one of the members of the group who I believe was Gary 

McDonald dropped his glasses in the river. Ever the wannabe hero I attempted to retrieve these for 

him but only managed to fall in, to the great amusement of the others. 

Best Regards 

Sean Seal


Memories of John Sallis 

I lived at the Cavendish across the road from Mrs Perkins - but she was always known as Akela - 1 

remember that Richard Wightman and I got all our badges and were about the tenth and eleventh in 

the town ever to do so and Akela was so proud of us both because I was a late swimmer and Richard 

left it to the last minute to learn semaphore. 

I have great memories of the 4th Derby - 1 really feel it made me a better person. 

I looked up to Phil and Don Hudson (you had to !!!!!!) and Ian royal and Peter Cholerton and his 

brother-there were so many, but we had great fun whilst learning things - if I had to sum up the 4th 

Derby Cubs and Scouts, they were very instrumental in my life and I remember it fondly - 1 will have 

a little bet - not many, if any, have "gone wrong" With hindsight it was the best time and thing that 

happened to me in my youth. 

We learnt things, we had fun we learnt discipline, we made friends. I would like to pay tribute to all 

those that I can remember but especially Mrs Perkins the Hudson brothers, Pat Matthews (and her 

partner-name has gone), Jim Lingard, Dave, Ian Royal - the names are endless but I thank you all


The White Peak event- 12th April 1975 

An experience never to be forgotten 

This unforgettable day began for us at the unearthly hour of 4.30 am., our chauffeured ambulance 

drew up outside the gates at approximately 5.30 am., the beautiful scenery and views on the 

journey to the starting point were not fully appreciated by all, due to the fact that most of us 

couldn't see past the matchsticks propping up our eyelids. 

The walk began. The day included exercises in walking together as a team, orienteering, overcoming 

difficult situations such as crossing a lake and filling in observance questionnaires. The most 

challenging of all the incidents to us, was abseiling down part of Froggatt Edge, having had no 

previous experience of this type of travelling. 

The highlight of the day came when our team was placed first in the mixed Venture Unit section and 

were also given the title of overall winners of the White Peak 1975, the first event of this kind. 

Unfortunately, on the return journey the scenery was again disregarded as we were all too 

preoccupied in celebrating our glorious victory of the day, which was for us, an experience never to 

be forgotten. 

Carol Keeling 

Maria Adamowicz 

Venture Unit


Four Inns Walk 

"Four Inns Walk? Sounds like as good a reason for a walk as any, eh Brian?" 

"Well actually, it’s a sort of short walkies over the moors". 

How many times do those innocuous words ring in one’s wind-battered ears as one trips over rocks, 

wades through streams and wallows in bogs* as one partakes of this walkies. 

Actually this Four-inns walk is a product of the same fertile imagination which produced the rack, 

and the similarities don't just end there, although that might be stretching the point too far. It is 

rumoured to comprise of ten sections between Holmbridge, near Huddersfield, and Buxton, a 

distance of 45-50 miles (or 70 depending on whether your compass reader loses his contact lenses). 

Each member of the Four Inns Team (one for each inn) carries 32 tons of irrelevant rubbish, the 

maximum allowable on British Roads; entry into the common market will increase the burden on 

each member to 40 tons. 

Team members tend to assemble on the Friday night prior to the walk, some time before closing 

time. The Derwent Service Team admirably managed both. Suitably fuelled our bold heroes settled 

down for a night’s sleep which progressively reduced to a half night, with the occasional arrival of 

clodhopping drunkards. Arising at 4.30am, a time one usually goes to bed on a Friday night, we 

stumbled into the local workhouse for a breakfast of gruel. 

Visions of a sprint start were soon dispelled by the size of the packs to be carried, but a start was 

made at six o'clock with teams departing up the road at two minute intervals. The Derwent Service 

Team was positioned appropriately at the rear, a position which they maintained with fearless 

resolution, and strode out to sounds of no fanfare, no cheering crowds and no Eddie Waring. The 

ensuing nineteen hours of muck, toil, curse and counter curse have no place in a family journal such 

as this, but it suffices to say we didn’t win. 

The enduring memory is of the victory bottle of Guinness and of having one's feet washed and 

powdered by a rather attractive young lady called Rosy of the Red Cross, whose smile would charm 

the blisters off even the most hardened hiker’s foot. 

And so dear reader, as you sit by your blazing winter gas miser, won't you remember what happened 

to your bold heroes who fell for soft words, and next time anyone suggests choosing a team for the 

Four Inns- PUT THE BOOT IN. 

R Carmen 

*this is a technical term used in certain instances to denote soft marshy ground- often with 

adjectival accompaniment. Viz. bogs


Memories of Richard Foster 

After leaving the 72nd I joined the Derwent Venture Unit back in the early 70s under the 

Stewardship of Messrs Boot and Asher, both sadly no longer with us. 

I have several good memories including Scrap Metal collecting to raise Funds for the Group. 

This only being achievable when Jimmy Lingard and Kim Laws had yet again produced a minor 

miracle to get the old "ambo" up and running .There is no doubt in my later years as a Police Officer 

it would have definitely been" worth a stop check" if I had seen it being driven anywhere other than 

a Stockcar Track. 

Also it was after Meetings I believe on a Wednesday Night? that Mr Dave Harper a good clean living 

Venture Scout as part of my social upbringing lead me astray and introduced me to an establishment 

called the Grange Hotel ! I must confess I have been grateful to him ever since.


Ode to Ada 

ADA PERKINS or ‘AKELA’ or ‘AUNTY ADA’ or ‘MRS P’ as she 

was variously known to us and hundreds more, who are 

scattered across the world and not able to be with us today, 

started Scouting in the fifties when her eldest son David 

joined the Cub Scouts at the 4th Derby (Derwent), and so did 

Ada and Harry becoming lay members, (as unwarranted 

people who did not wear uniform were known. Today they 

are called helpers). Of course it wasn’t long before Ada 

became an Assistant Cub Mistress and soon was asked to be 

Akela (Cub Mistress). She joined a strong team dominated by 

males but Ada soon held her own with them, which was 

difficult for a woman in those days, but 

being as strong minded and forceful as they were, she was 

eventually accepted as a full member of the team at the 4th. 

Later she took the role of Assistant District Commissioner 

(Cub Scouts) in Derby South District and along with Edna 

Hanson ran the district Cub section for 25 years. If you or 

anyone had the audacity to suggest or do something with 

the Cubs that they did not think was right, then beware, they 

were not known as the terrible twins for nothing. 

In the early sixties when I was a green Scoutmaster with the 73rd (Allestree) in Derby North District, 

our Akela asked me to go along with our Cubs to an Area Sports Day. Whilst I was there, after a 

particular race, I suddenly noticed a lady in Scout uniform obviously making a bee-line for me, with a 

face looking somewhat stern. She then tore into me about some of my Cubs obviously being over 

age, this was wrong and not a very good example, immoral and against all principles of Scouting. I 

unsuccessfully tried to protest my innocence, I was Scoutmaster and didn’t know what she was 

talking about, having made her point she turned on her heel and strode off. Our Akela turned up as I 

was recovering my composure and I asked her who on earth was that? Oh, THAT was Mrs Perkins 

from the 4th she said, I can see some of you smiling to yourselves, I wonder why? 

I didn’t really have much to do with Ada until I joined Derby South as Assistant District Commissioner 

(Scouts) in 1975 and Ada went out of her way to help me settle in and gave me a lot of good and 

useful advice, and continued to do so every now and then. 

Ada, with the help of Harry took over and reorganised the Scout Shop in 1970, when it was at Wilson 

Street and continued until just before she died. As all of you who attended and visited the 

Derbyshire Scouts International Camps at Chatsworth know, there was a Scout shop stand there 

with Ada in charge. Right up to the end she was in the Scout Shop in her wheel chair helping out and 

advising as usual and enthusing Scouting. Somehow the Scout shop won’t be quite the same without 

her. As if that wasn’t enough she was a very active Member 

Of the Area Competitions committee and always camped at the Drury Lowe competition week-end 

at Locko Park. She was an active member of the Area Arts Festival Committee and encouraged and


cajoled everyone she could to take part, and for many years was an active member of Derby South 

District Executive committee. 

Ada’s outstanding service to Scouting was recognised by the Scout Association with the award of the 

Medal of Merit, and later the Bar to the Medal, for further outstanding service and finally for 

specially distinguished service Ada was awarded the Silver Acorn. 

At the age of sixty-five all Warranted Leaders have to retire. The rule makers reckoned without Mrs 

P. retire from Scouting? You must be joking. Ada launched herself with her usual enthusiasm and 

drive into the job of Group Administrator at the 4th joined the District Scout Fellowship, later 

becoming its Secretary. She also became District Badge Secretary for cubs and she continued 

organising trips to the Pantomime for the District Cub Section. When the Beaver Scouts started, she 

took on the role of District Beaver Scout Advisor and helped many Beaver Colonies in the District to 

get started, and don’t forget she was still Manageress of the Scout Shop. What a retirement! 

Nine years ago when taken ill with cancer Ada was virtually written off by Doctors, obviously they 

hadn’t heard of our Ada’s courage, indomitable spirit, Yorkshire grit and love of Scouting which 

made her a formidable fighter. In spite of her pain and suffering I never heard her complain and she 

kept her sense of humour and was, as usual, taking charge right up to the end. 

Ada Perkins was a true Scout to the last, a 4th Derby (Derwent) Scout through and through and a 

loyal supporter of Derby South District, with her unselfish commitment to the ‘Youngsters’, she will 

be missed by a lot of people for her dedication, enthusiasm and energy. A great many people’s lives 

have been changed for the better as a result of her guidance and help over 45 years or so of 

Scouting. Some people we meet in our lives gradually fade from memory, I am sure for a great many, 

ADA never will. 

Rest in Peace 18th February 1997


Ram Patrol log book 

1976 

The Bulldog patrol, well one of them anyway, was up prompt at 7.50am and proceeded to light the 

fire, as this morning we were going to cook our own breakfast, apart from the cereals which don’t 

taste very nice fried. 

Swimming in Ashbourne 

July 1976 

I think everybody enjoyed the swim although somebody (heh heh!) started swimming under the 

younger members of the troop and pulled them underwater. This person nicknamed himself "Jaws" 

Canoeing at Clay Mills 

May 1976 

Everyone had a lot of fun, even Martin Gee, which is really saying something. After everyone had 

dried off, the soup was at the ready, and the primus was set up, and then, guess what, no-body had 

any matches! [be prepared! Scouts!)


A 1924 memory 

The following is an extract from the troop log dated, May 1924:- 

"My 1st class cooking test, mother, 

I've passed and can't complain; 

But there's something on my chest, mother 

And further down a pain. 

Yes, there's something on my chest, mother, 

But no one could suggest 

That it could be the damper I ate 

and can't digest 

A 2006 memory 

PATROL LEADERS COURSE (Reported by - Gareth Davis) 

We were all split into three groups (luckily we were all together). There were three tasks as well so 

each group would be doing a different task. 

We did fire lighting first. I can't remember the names of the equipment but Terry might. You had to 

get a piece of wood and you put this thing that looked like a pencil. You then raped a bow around 

the pencil think and moved it backwards and forwards. When you get charcoal you put it in some 

hay and blow until it set fire. 

The second task was string making. We had to collect some big nettles and you had to de-leaf them. 

And then rub them with gloves so they lose their string. They were then put to one side to dry for 

the next group. We were given dried nettle and started to wrap the together. 

The last task was shelter building, we were split in two among our group, one put the skeleton of the 

shelter the other collected as much bracken as they could carry to make the shelter waterproof and 

slightly warm. At the end we tested the shelters to see if they were waterproof, ours wasn't. 

I thought it was a great day and I learnt a lot. 

Some 1946 memories 

Taken from the troops logbook 

(on refreshments) “tonight’s cocoa, made and served by the Peewits, had a distinct flavour of 

paraffin ” (on the Buxton Rally) “. Tony Moore’s effort of a knife and fork cum plate rack cum mug 

tree caused quite a lot of comments while in its embryo stages, but the finished article proved stout 

enough to withstand the elements and gave a touch of originality to the camps gadgets ” 

Taken from Owl’s logbook


(on a wide game) “ Geoffrey Stuart led the defenders, or rather retreated ahead 

of them 

(on the Buxton Rally) “ Obviously three arrivals had been eagerly awaited for 

the moment Geoffrey Stuart, Jim Naden and Colin Brown arrived a wood progging party 

was organised 

Midnight struck with the clean fresh air blowing through the Owl’s tent at 

about 50 miles an hour 

Taken from the Rams logbook 

(on a games night)”.. we played British bulldog, doing very well, only having one boy’s arm 

dislocated 

some quiet games were played. Brown and Sturgess got hurt as 

usual 

(on a Christmas camp)” we then proceeded to the nearest tea house and gave the 

rabbit to the proprietors. We had tea for a very low charge 

Taken from the Curlews logbook 

(on a night patrol)” tonight we practised the Morse code, this being our only 

Weakness 

(on summer camp)” the typical attitude of the Rams after cooking a meal seems to 

Yes! We’ll Risk it!” be “dare we? No Yes No 

Taken from the Peewits logbook 

(on Nov 5th effort)” the crowd fizzled out about 10pm, leaving a dirty mess and a large fire 

(on troop birthday)” the cubs, led by Akela and Rann, meanwhile were making 

horrible noises which they fondly imagined to be singing 

Taken from the Swifts logbook 

(on troop meeting)” the Peewits served supper. This consisted of very lumpy cocoa” 

(on easter camp)” the midnight walk through Dovedale was uneventful, no one having the nerve to 

fall in the water


Excerpts from editions of ‘Derwent Green’


Rovering in captivity 

By C.C.Warden 

Derwent Green. Feb 1946. Vol 1part 1. 

As far as I was concerned, it all began one sunny afternoon in Siam, about the beginning of 

November 1944. We had been several miles up the Kwa-Noi River collecting firewood from the 

many native villages that clustered upon its banks. About 5pm, when we had finished our job, we 

were drifting lazily downstream towards camp and the talk turned to scouting. A group of us were 

squatting in the prow of the barge and I happened to mention that I was a scout and was interested 

in all things appertaining to scouting. As I said this an Artillery Officer, whom I had known casually 

for some time, looked at me with narrowed eyes, glanced nonchalantly over his shoulder to make 

sure the Japanese guard was not within earshot, and then leaned forward and said quietly, "Did you 

know that there is a Rover Crew functioning in this camp, Cyril?"- "Strictly on the Q.T., of course" 

Now as any kind of meeting or assembly was taboo-ed by our host under threat of the most dire 

penalties, anybody who had cause to hold meetings kept them very secret; and this was why I had 

not heard of the underground Rover Crew before. 

So the officer, Peter, and I went into a huddle and he invited me to the next meeting in a few 

nights time. At this time we were in a camp called Tamuang about 10 miles from Kanchanaburi, one 

of the main towns in Siam. 

After dark on the night concerned Peter collected me and led me by devious routes to a hut 

on the far side of the camp area. Here he ushered me into a small cubicle of bamboo, where about 

12 fellows were huddled together over a smoking oil lamp. I was introduced and made instantly at 

home. I was told that this was but one patrol of the crew, which numbered about 150. Now, before 

describing the activities, I would like to give some idea of the organisations previous history, and 

composition of the crew. 

It had been formed, unbeknown to me, about a year before, at a camp called Tarsao, many 

miles further up the Kwa Noi and well inside the death area. I had been in Tarsao at the time but 

because of the desperate need of secrecy I just hadn't heard that the crew was functioning, until the 

incident I've just mentioned. The Rover leader was Michael Service of Ayrshire. His profession was 

planting rubber in Malaya and being in the Federated Malay States Volunteer Force he had been 

captured along with the rest of us, when Singapore fell in February 1942. 

Service did a marvellous job in organising and conducting meetings, especially at a time when one 

slip or careless word might have meant disaster for all concerned and for him most of all. Our 

honorary Scout Master was Lieutenant Colonel Knights, M.C. of the Royal Norfolk Regiment. He took 

a keen interest in the crew, and honoured us with his presence at most of the meetings. Our Rover 

Mate was one "Barney" Hodgkiss of the Reconnaissance Corps, an able and indefatigable support to 

Service in all his works. 

Also there were several other "Foundation Members" whose names unfortunately have slipped me. 

Our highest recorded membership was about 150, although as parties were continually coming and 

going between camps, there were never as many as this in the camp at one time. As regards 

nationality, we were British, Dutch, Australian and American and never was there such a great 

getting together of different races in a spirit of mutual comradeship, as there was at our meetings. 

We were divided into patrols and at patrol gatherings every form of Scouting or Rovering activity 

was discussed. All this of course had to be done in the strictest secrecy.


Now I'll pick up the story from the point where I joined the crew. We continued with our regular 

meetings until New Year’s Eve or thereabouts 1945, when we had a grand Christmas-cum New 

Year’s party. This meant that instead of meeting separately by patrols, we risked it, and for one 

night, all came together in a body, a pretty fair risk to take a s the Japs were very nervous at the time 

and had issued fresh orders against assemblies. Anyway, our mood was defiant and we all thought 

"Blow the Japanese, we'll risk it". So we all gathered around an imitation campfire in a remote hut; 

Colonel Knights, Service and Hodgkiss presided and we ate, yarned and listened to accounts of the 

crew's activities. At the end of a very pleasant evening we closed with a prayer, and each nationality 

stood up and recited its national anthem. We daren't take the risk of singing them. 

For a lot of the time we were fortunate in having with us Commissioner Van Der Veer, Assistant 

Commissioner for the South Pacific, who was in the Dutch Army. This meant that he could legislate 

any investitures carried out in the crew. 

About Jan 22nd 1945 a bombshell burst amongst us. Until this date officers and men had 

been kept in the same camps but now the enemy for some reason known only to himself decided a 

great splitting up for us, as our crew was made up of both officers and men, with, of course, not 

discrimination whatsoever of rank. 

Nevertheless, those of us that were commissioned had to go, and the crew reshuffled itself a 

bit, and carried on as usual. Service, however, took with him a nominal roll with addresses of all who 

had been members. 

On arrival at Kanchanaburi, we managed to form a sizeable crew from ourselves and officers 

who had been sent in from the many camps in Siam. The Japanese guards here were extremely 

suspicious and we had to be even more circumspect than before. Still, we carried on despite them. I 

had long been worrying Service about my own investiture. I was a scout, true enough, but as yet had 

not been formally invested as a Rover. Now Michael was confident that, when the war was finished 

and we were free, he'd be able to register the crew at I.H.Q. and get the whole organisation 

recorded and legalised. So one night in May 1945 (the 22nd to be precise) I became a Rover Scout in 

a small room behind the Cook house. The ceremony was carried out exactly as it should have been 

and was one of the most impressive moments of my life. 

Another great gathering that we had was on St George's Day 1945, when we had another 

complete meeting of the crew in a small hut, normally used for the manufacture of crude paper. At 

this meeting each Rover gave a short account of the activities of his Troop or Crew before his 

capture. I might add that amongst our number we had one or two very tough lads. I remember one 

in particular who made a practise, at Tamuang, of crawling out at night through the barrier that 

surrounded the camp. On one occasion he lay prone in a shallow ditch while a Japanese sentry made 

investigations within a few yards of him. Even this did not deter him from his frequent foraging 

expeditions. Incidentally, this lad seemed bereft of nerves. 

We went on holding regular meetings until that great day in August when the Japanese 

Empire collapsed. Our final meeting took place just before we were moved to Bangkok, the first 

stage of our journey home. Everybody was deeply aware that many of us would never meet again, 

unless by the most amazing chance, but we all know that Mick would see that our Crew was 

registered, and we felt that whatever happened, we had at least managed to keep it going through


thick and thin. 

And so we parted. 

P.S. 20/12/45 

I've just heard from Mick. He sent a circular letter describing how everything is being 

registered at I.H.Q., and enclosed a registration form, asking for photographs, as he hopes to 

produce a souvenir booklet and roll of the crew, with a picture of each Rover. This circular letter has 

gone out to the ends of the earth. The crew has been dubbed the "Me Nam- Kwa Noi" Rover Crew, 

these being the two rivers we were on. 

I've seldom met a man more devoted to an ideal than is Michael Service to Rovering. 

Bravo! Mick. You've done well.


Kinder Walk 1968 

It was 5.30am on the cold wet morning of the 28th Sept 1968, when a bus, loaded 

with Derwent Venture Scouts and driven by Mr Hill left HQ on the start of the journey to 

Chapel-en-le-Frith for the Kinder walk. We were entering three teams of four, and each 

team had to carry the regulation kit :- Tent, pan, sleeping bag, bivy bag, mug, stove and first 

aid kit. 

As we travelled along, we all wondered if the hard training we had done, over the 

route the previous weeks would stand us in good stead for the 25 mile walk. We arrived at 

the1st Chapel HQ at about 7.30am and whilst our kits were being checked by the officials, 

Bob Carmen prepared breakfast (bacon and eggs). All too soon the teams started to move 

off. Our "C" team left at 8.15am followed by the rest of the teams at two minute intervals. 

The first part of the walk was by footpath over Chapel gate to the checkpoint at Edale. It 

was now that the hard grind really started with the climb to Grindsbrook. A further 

checkpoint at Grindsbrook and we were on our way again, following the river to the top of 

Kinder, due to the heavy rains a few days before, the going was very heavy and wet. This 

route took us straight across the top of Kinder to the Kinder downfall. Strong winds and 

sleet made travelling most uncomfortable. 

At Hayfield, the third checkpoint, one member of both "B" and "C" teams had to retire, but this still 

left our "A" team in the running and going strong. From Hayfield over Buxworth Moor to Buxworth 

and by now the mileage was really beginning to tell, but the last few miles were now in sight. The 

final climb to the checkpoint at Bag-House, and then the open road walk back to the starting point. 

After a wash and a hot meal, for which we were more than grateful, the winners were announced 

and the trophy (a thumb stick) was presented to the Derwent Venture "A" team who managed to 

win by the narrow margin of just one minute. Their actual time was 7 hours 40 minutes beating the 

previous record by 16 minutes. 

As always pretraining had paid dividends. The three teams entered were as follows. 

"A" "B" "C" 

I Royle (Leader) R Stenson (Leader) P Evans (Leader) 

G Kimpton R Poole H Yeomans 

D Dockeray R Coupe D Hollaway 

R Barker M Alderidge A Cumbledge 

Taken from Derwent Green Nov 1968


Taken from Derwent Green 1972 

A sad story 

This case concerns Lance, a six year old who spent most of his early years in 

Staffordshire with parents who apparently looked after his material needs and treated 

him well. Unfortunately, they deserted him earlier this year and he passed through an 

adoption agency to a young couple in Derby who kept him for a short time but found 

that they could not continue to do so. 

In June of this year, this case came to the attention of the Derwents, who after 

some deliberation decided that they would take on responsibility for him. Temporary 

accommodation was arranged with the parents of one of the scouts and in fact Lance 

accompanied the Troop and Unit on several outings over the past months. 

However, more permanent arrangements need to be made to provide a home for 

Lance particularly since winter is on its way and one way in which everyone can help is 

by continuing to collect newspapers and magazines, the proceeds of which will be 

directed towards a "home” and to provide the articles which are needed to keep him. 

(case ref: JBF 504 D) 

Read more on Lance's case further in the book.



The continuing story of Lance 

Last year, you may remember, we left Dick Barton, special agent, on a dangerous 

mission code number JBF 504D, (see "A Sad story”, Derwent Green 1972), against 

impossible odds in the depths of darkest Coleridge Street. He was consigned to follow 

the exploits of Lance, a white petrol guzzler. His mission took him from the barren 

wastes of wettest Ennerdale, to the stifling heat and treacherous waters of Swarkestone 

Bridge: rapid chases along miles of crowded motorways and spine jarring jolts along 

rock strewn pitted paths from remotest Rudyard Lake to Rhododendron’d Chatsworth 

Park, only to find that once again Lance had evaded Dick and had slipped in for a slurp 

at yet another petrol station. 

Despite many months of intensive research and careful observation Dick had not 

been able to penetrate the shroud of mystery surrounding Lance. Lance was known to 

haunt the precincts of Old Normanton, but once within the maze of the Austin Estate he 

was always able to go to ground and evade detection. Strange rumours were circulating 

that an underground organisation, known only as the "Derwents", a name which struck 

fear in the hearts of many, were harbouring Lance. Indeed, considerable suspicion was 

aroused when a huge edifice grew almost overnight at the buildings used by the 

"Derwents" as their headquarters. The structure barred, apparently from within. Even 

aerial surveys could not penetrate the translucent skylights of this forbidding shell. 

In his continuing efforts, never ending fight, to establish the truth about Lance, 

Dick cunningly posed as a petrol pump attendant and after weeks of fruitless 

endeavour, his diligence was rewarded. Lance, unsuspecting, one day rolled up beside 

the centinal pumps to indulge his passion. This was the opportunity that Dick had been 

waiting for, the chance to penetrate the darkness that surrounded Lance. Dick primed 

his can of Redex, hoping to get in a quick shot at Lance, and casually wandered across 

the forecourt. Nonchalantly approaching the waiting Lance, Dick saw the lustful desire 

registered on Lance's dial. Dick's mind was racing: should he immediately confront 

Lance, or should he gamble his luck and continue his anonymity in the hope of 

penetrating Lance's activities and those of the organisation that supported him. 

Suddenly, Dick’s suspicions were aroused, almost unperceptively Lance began to 

inch forward. Had Dick’s ingenious disguise failed? Was he again to be thwarted on the 

very bank of success? Or had some silly b***** forgotten to engage the handbrake? 

More of the continuing Adventures of Dick Harton, Special agent, and his arch 

enemy, Lance can be seen later in the book.


1974 

Saxon Pack holiday and camp 1974 

.... One thing we did find out was that most young cubs have a favourite toy at home to take to bed, 

and one Cub was very honest when asked why he could not get to sleep, remarked, he had left 

Teddy at home ( Fortunately we had one in our kit which had been taken by a person older that cub 

age!!!), in future Mums, favourite bed toys will be on the kit list!!! And I'm told the assistants list 

too.... 

....we hear on the 'grapevine' that for the first time in 67 years the Scouts have accomplished the 

previously impossible task of paying their subs on time 

1973 

Report on Kinder Walk 1973 

...the team this year did not suffer from and ill effects such as Dehydration, hyperthermia, 

dysentery(trots) or mixingmytoeses. Despite their total lack of training, hopelessly inadequate 

equipment and other seemingly insurmountable difficulties, their efforts compared favourably with 

those of other competitors the walk was cancelled! 

A bird's eye view of Lochgoilhead 

(all rights reserved, which means do not sue for slander but take a pinch of salt instead) 

Most of you would have heard about the Troop summer camp by now, but from a male 

viewpoint. Maybe our lady readers will be interested in perusing this view of our activities 

written by a member of the opposite sex. 

Accommodation. 

When one is used to four wall- papered walls, a gas fire, carpeting on the floor, pictures 

on the wall etc., a rectangular stark wooden hut comes as a bit of a shock. Nevertheless, this was 

to be my home for two weeks. By the time my 'meagre' luggage was unpacked, the place looked 

a little more homely. 

There was no such thing as a wardrobe in my hut, a line of cord strung between the 

rafters served this purpose. One did have the choice of three beds though, rather like the story 

of the three bears, baby bear (cot sized bed), mummy bear (medium sized bed), and daddy bear 

(a spacious double bed). Well, which one would you have chosen? 

Food 

Have you ever sat down and been served breakfast, lunch and dinner prepared by men? 

If not, it is an experience not to be missed. Your fingers will itch to get cracking on peeling the 

spuds; each to clean the tables before the meal is served, and will perform a St Vitus’ dance in 

order to present the food elegantly. 

The food was very good in general, but how do you explain a mania which existed that 

you would be poisoned if the food you ate was not on your very own plate and eaten with your 

very own knife, fork and spoon?


Entertainment and company 

In general, both improved after 22.30hrs (bed-time for Scouts), but I must confess that 

some day-time activities were entertaining. Like spending a worthwhile 25p to see a relative of 

Wellington capsized in his canoe! 

It was probably just as well that there were no night - clubs or discotheque at or near 

Lochgoilhead, because breakfast was at an unearthly hour of 08.15 hrs! One evening though, 

we all congregated in a dining hall (of all places) in order to have a camp ‘fire’. No fire was seen 

or heard of and I spent most of the evening looking for it! The singing was enthusiastic, even if it 

was mostly bass and tenor (there was one other female raised in a plaintive soprano). 

One thing must not be omitted; my thanks to a certain Scout who gave us a lullaby in the 

form of a selection of rugby songs in a very sleepy voice on the last night that we were in 

Scotland. 

Written by a member of the service team who shall remain anonymous!



jottings of a meandering converted conveyance 

(or the continuing story of Lance continued) 

Regular subscribers to this publication will no doubt recall the previous reports concerning 

the group's ambulance. In view of the generally low standard of these past efforts one is bound to 

question the judgement and ability of the editorial staff. 

However, since it would appear that there is still a shortage of material of a reasonably 

quality I feel it my duty to put pen to paper (or spark to plug) and offer the following account of my 

tribulations. 

The early years of my life were spent in the service of the Staffordshire Blood 

Wagon Department. Little did I realise as I waved goodbye to that nice warm friendly 

garage for the last time the degradation that lay before me. The first indignity that befell 

me at the hands of cut-throat Johnson and his crew was that I was gutted - 

disembowelled- stripped, call it what you like, my insides were cannibalised and I was 

given a seat transplant. It's no joke being messed about by a pair of rough greasy mitts 

like cut-throats. 

It soon became clear however, that my insides were to suffer further discomfort 

and disruption. I was in a permanent state of turmoil- one day stacked to the 

gunwhales with dixies and stormhavens; another rusty bike frames, washing machines 

and lavatory cisterns; jumble sale left-overs; waste paper; bricks - I’ve had the lot. The 

very thought of all those bricks they crammed in me sends palpitations through my rear 

suspension. 

Even when I was being used for my original purpose of transporting bodies, life 

wasn't a bed of roses. Those fag-stubbing, crisp crunching, beer swilling, raucous, core 

discarding, mud treading, round bottomed, interfering, song singing, insult flinging, over 

weight and over bearing louts did nothing at all for my constitution. No wonder I suffer 

from consumption! 

I think that I could put up with these abuses in my rear compartment if I was 

given more consistent treatment in my cab. I never know from one day to the next 

which pair of cold insensitive hands are going to grasp me by the steering wheel. One of 

them seems to think he is Jackie Stewart, another thinks he is Evil Kinevil, one ought to 

stick to dodgems and might I suggest a Churchill tank for the one who buried me up to 

my axles in mud. There's been a new fellow around me recently stamping all over my 

pedals and groping about trying to turn me on. And some of the places these people 

have taken me on dark nights! 

Although I have a place of my own, an occasional pint of oil, a kick on my tyres 

and a couple of gallons of three star is all the affection I get. Enjoy this literary gem - it 

may be my last! 

Lance 

Find out if this is the last of Lance- read on!


1975 

since the coming of unisex to the unit, the unit coffee cups have been washed twice in a 

month 

when the minister giving the sermon at the St Georges Day parade service asked the 

question "who didn’t have a wash before he came out", approximately half the Derwent cubs 

stepped forward, including the Scout Leaders son! 

At half past 12 we got there and then we all got off the bus and went hiking, ...in a field we saw a 

ram. Then Mark and I had to carry a bag for Akela then the handle snapped. When we got to the 

stream we were building a dam... about 10 minutes later Nigel Cash fell in head first and David 

Street went to help him. Then when we pulled him out Akela had to take all his clothes off. After 

1 hours’ time we all went hiking. While we hiking Nigel Cash lost his sock, and some of us had to 

go and find it. 

Lee Flower 

The hike to Riber Castle wasn't very far so we were able to spend a lot of time there. We walked 

round the zoo and saw Beavers(sic), Rats, Peacocks which opened their tails for us to take 

photographs of. We also saw a Fox with three legs. 

When we were told to go back a few of us went the wrong way and found a small black 

rabbit which was about 4 weeks old and we named him Tansley after the place we were staying 

at. Akela took him home and gave him brandy and milk. He grew very big then whilst Akela was 

ill Tansley got out of his cage and went for an adventure in Walbrook Road. Many people have 

seen Tansley jumping walls and running down Walbrook Road but no-one can catch him. We 

wonder where he is now and if he will come home again. 

D Matthews 

"A boy's thoughts of camp. 

...The things I liked best was playing in the bracken. Some of it was taller than me. We had to 

force our way through it because it hadn’t been trodden down we thought nobody had ever 

been there before. There was nothing but bracken all the way but it was great.” 

P Reville 

Snow is falling, falling to the ground, 

Down comes the frozen rain, 

It makes a white carpet, 

Underneath is the ice like a polished floor. 

Out comes the snow plough and grit, 

Then comes the sun and the snow melts, 

But there’s still ice, 

The children skid on the ice, 

And they also skid on the way to school. 

N. Dunn 

Saxon Pack



Report on the condition of Lance (case ref IBF 504D) 

(or the continuing story of Lance continued) 

By Doctor Angus Mac Coatup M.D., B.Ch., F.R.C.S., T.W.I.T. 

General Description: 

Age : 9(x 9 vehicle years = 81years) 

Weight: Heavy 

Build: Ok 

Height: Unchanged 

Sight: 240w / 12v 

Sex: Difficult 

The patient attended evening surgery complaining of listlessness, grumbling 

wot-nots, incontinence, consumption and depression. I decided that a complete 

examination was required and accordingly conducted the patient to the examination 

room to start stripping. 

My general investigations indicated the following conditions - cardiac failure; 

pneumonia; palpitations of the butterfly valve; sarcoma; diabetes petrolus; and falling 

arches. I concluded that further investigation was required and the patient was referred 

to Mr. Cut- Throat Johnson, an eminent authority on such matters. Cut- Throat decided 

that surgery would be necessary and accompanied by Mr. Slasher Aldridge a major 

transplant was undertaken. 

The operation lasted several weeks and the eyes of the medical world including 

those of Doctor Christian Farmyard, were centred on Cut - Throats greasy mitts. A 

carborectomy was the first task undertaken. This involved the severance of the existing 

arterial flow pipes and the removal of the offending organ. The replacement organ was 

painlessly extracted from Bristol Street Motors on payment of the usual fee and the 

operation was successfully completed. Further minor operations involved the removal 

of the vestigial electrical appendages and the removal of homeostatic control systems. 

Evidence showed surface deterioration of the predatory regions and the Harris 

pneumatic replacement technique was followed. 

Post operative investigation of the organs which had been removed showed the 

following results- oedematous thickening of the immediate carburomical region, with 

secondary infection of the nodes; sinking float chamber and gritty jets; calcification of 

the aquatic portal veins; severe deterioration of the Dunlop’s; classical vitamin 

deficiency associated with Shellitus and gasket endofumitus. 

It appears that the surgical treatment which was undertaken was successful and 

the annual Medical Operating Test (M.O.T) was completed satisfactorily. It is to be 

hoped that in the future preventative technique will ensure that the patient will enjoy a 

long and healthy existence. 

Will this be enough to keep Lance battling on - find out further on in the book.


Editorial from the Derwent Green 1993 

Hello Folks, 

Welcome to our 85th birthday celebration, only 10 years older than myself. There! 

I have given my age away. But as they say, you are only as old as you feel, and I 

sometimes only feel 21!! 

I was conned into becoming Akela nearly 40 years ago. I have enjoyed every 

minute of Scouting, and would not have my life any different. There is great fun and 

reward in seeing what your ex Cubs make of their lives, and feeling you maybe had a 

little to do with it. Doctors, Dentists, Lawyers, Politicians, TV Personalities, Newspaper 

Reporters, and many other jobs just as important emerge when tracking down old boys. 

One cub, when asked what he wanted to be said, “a murderer”. I have never seen his 

name in the paper so I wonder what he is doing? I was lucky I always had plenty of help 

from my leaders, we had great fun and we still keep in touch, although some have had to 

move away from Derby. 

I often sit and think and laugh, at some of the things said by Cubs: After the birth 

of my daughter, a cub with a shock of ginger curls arrived at my door, and said “please 

Akela will you swap your baby for my dog” (he had no sisters or brothers) 

On ringing a certain newspaper to advertise our 85th birthday, I was told by the 

reporter, that he was in my pack. He remembered one night when he sprayed the Cubs 

with water from his hand-grenades, and I confiscated them and never gave them back, 

(they do remember things!!) 

One day recently a young man visited the H.Q. “Hello Shaun” I said “what are 

you doing now”. He told me he was in the American Navy, and lived in Beverley Hills 

with his parents. If I tell you Shaun gave me many grey hairs, when we went on outings 

he was always running away, when we took the pack to the science museum in London, 

he was a nightmare. 

We have had great times with our 3 visits to Holland with many funny memories. 

Once a Dutch Scout had to dive into the canal to retrieve one of the Cubs pair of glasses, 

that was one incident. Our visits to Guernsey were very rewarding, but not without funny 

incidents to remember in future years. These visits were very exciting and educational, 

and I know that activities like these will happen again. Akela and his leaders are planning 

to explore these avenues, but cost is a big stumbling block with the present economic 

climate, but there will be very exciting things in the future for our present Cub pack. 

So come along boys and girls get stuck in and enjoy yourselves. It helps you 

along life’s way, and bring your friends to have a go. Parents also please help the present 

leaders, who give their time so willingly and voluntary for your sons and daughters, and 

at last we have found a Group Scout Leader. I hope he will bring in new ideas to help the 

scouters. 

I am dipping out of my stand in position as Administrator, and being called for the 

time being Secretary, (still dogs body), and will help when I can as instructor. 

Thanks leaders for your help and friendship, I did my best to keep things working, 

although in the latter years I have not been as active or mobile as I would have liked. I


hope Malcolm will be an asset to the group. 

Thanks to all the parents for their support, I am pleased to say you are not like the 

passage below. I hope there will always be someone around to help.

Pictures paint a thousand words ! 

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History through photographs 

The following photographs are a small collection of those taken over the years 

We believe this photograph was taken in November 1910. The scout in the centre is the founder of 

our group, Douglas Foxwell. Directly Behind Douglas Foxwell are the colours. These were 

embroidered by mothers of the scouts. 

Troop and patrol photo’s 1908-1933 

Some of the early photo’s that we have found of patrols and of the troop. 

Some of the group and patrol photographs are a mystery, we either know the year and 

not the patrol or we know the patrol but not the year. If you have any information that 

could help us then please let the author know.

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Outside HQ in 1968 

Cub section, date unknown

One of our assistant scout leaders in His past role as chief pan washer. 

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Bridge building then and now! 

In just a few decades the difference Health and Safety laws make is shown in the following two 

pictures. The first one was taken in 1971 at a group field day. You can see the height of the rope 

means that they had to have people at each end as well as holding the side poles to stop it tipping. 

Now look at the next one, taken at a Troop night in 2007. There is a massive difference in heights 

due to the amount of children that have been hurt by falling from the rope. Or is it just because 

nowadays you get wet sponges thrown at you?

Canoeing, Climbing, Cross-country 

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Vikings, Harry Potter, Rope Bridges, Firemen 

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Camps 

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Summer camp 1921 

July 29th- August 12th 

Scoutmaster 

Troop Leader 

CJ Bennett (Part time) 

RC Treadgold 

H Cott 

Patrol leaders W Legge 

R Williamson 

W Hopkins 

Seconds 

Scouts 

Colloff 

C Clarke 

H Powell 

C Jackson 

S Riggott 

WT Graham 

J Haviland 

G Holdgate 

J Hambridge 

E Hatton 

W Holland 

F Jerram 

T Ford 

L Mason 

A Riggott 

R Scholes 

The troop paraded at headquarters at seven o’clock on Friday evening, July 29, at about eight the 

first party, comprising Mr Bennett, P.L. Hopkins, Secs Colloff and Jackson, scouts Hambridge, 

Hatton, Haviland, Jerram, Graham and W Dingle together with “Tony” the pony; left for Brailsford 

where it had been arranged to have a rest and refreshment. The second stage party started half an 

hour later, being Mr Treadgold, Troop 

leader Cott, P.L. W Legge, Secs Clarke, 

Powell and Riggott, scouts Holland, Ford, 

Scholes, Mason, “Gus” Riggott and 

Holdgate. The Rose and Crown was 

reached about ten o’clock and the first 

party moved on again on the arrival of the 

remainder. 

A little rain fell and the night was very 

dark, so dark that the second party ran 

over a hat which had been dropped by 

the others, fortunately it was noticed and

Page 114 of 156 

P.L. Hopkins, who had been sent to find it was saved a journey! We had made arrangements for 

resting at Sandybrook Hall and landed there, 

very tired, about three on Saturday morning being very grateful for the milk and buns which Mrs 

Turnbull had kindly provided. 

After a late breakfast we left again at eleven and were soon afterwards passed by the lorry from 

Ley’s works which picked up Mr Bennett. The pony trek cart proved the slower travelling but we 

caught up with the others at Alsop-en-le-Dale where we stopped for lunch. Troop leader Cott’s 

party reached Beresford Dale about half past four, the remainder arriving half an hour later. Camp 

was made and a hot meal prepared, the tents being allotted as follows:- 

Nol. Troop Leader Cott, P.L. W Legge, i/c Sets Mason, Holland and Graham 

No2. P.L. R.Williamson, i/c Secs Colloff and Clarke and scout Scholes. 

No3. P.L. W.Hopkins i/c Sec Powell, scouts Ford, Hambridge and Hatton. 

No4. Mr Treadgold, Sec S Riggott i/c Sec Jackson, scouts Holdgate, Riggott, 

Haviland and Jerram and W Dingle. 

Later in the evening P.L. R Williamson joined us having come up on the train. Everyone went to sleep 

thoroughly tired out after the journey of twenty six miles and few new of the visit of Messer’s Fred 

Dingle and Bobby Lee until they investigated the mysterious heap in the grub tent on Sunday 

morning. 

Sunday July 31 st

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The troop attended Hartington parish church for the morning service and there were also present 

Mr Bennett’s boys from Ley’s and the Wakefield scouts. The lessons were read by Mr Bennett. 

In the evening the troop played and beat the Ley’s team at cricket. 

Bank holiday Monday August 1 st 

The programme which had been decided upon by the Court-of-Honour on Sunday evening was 

carried out, and the troop with the exception of three orderlies left camp at ten o’clock, lunch being 

carried. 

We passed the three cornered wood and thence via Archford Moor and Paddock house to the top of 

Ecton hill; where some ruined copper workings were visited and what appeared to be very deep 

shafts were seen. The draft coming up from the shafts was very strong but we did not see the 

openings at the bottom of the shafts when ascending the hillside. We worked down the hill towards 

Manifold valley and made for Wetton mill, intending to visit Thor’s cave, but in as much as a train 

came into Wetton mill station we decided to go on the light railway up the Manifold valley to Hulme 

end. The valley take sits name from the stream Manifold, (i.e. many folds) and the numerous bends 

in it certainly add to the prettiness of the scenery. 

Leaving Hulme end station we met Mr Bennett’s boys who suggested our visiting Sheen hill which 

they had just visited. We did as they suggested much to the disappointment of the few of our 

number who wished to rest. However we were amply repaid for the stiffish climb, from the top of 

Sheen we were able to see Lee’s camp but our own was hidden by trees. We could also see the 

greater part of the district we had travelled through earlier in the day, the Manifold with the stream

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shining in the sun being plainly seen through the gaps in the hills. It is said that on a clear day the 

Welsh Mountains can be seen from the top of the Sheen. 

We returned to camp by means of a footpath on the top of the hills which form the west bank of the 

river Dove, and after a meat tea commenced a football match with Ley’s which had to be abandoned 

owing to the ball requiring too frequent pumping up! 

Tuesday August 2nd 

Heavy rain fell in the early morning so the kits were inspected inside the tents. When it cleared a 

little we set off to climb to the top of Gratton hill (the hill which overlooked our camp) in order to 

find out what the object that looked like a man was. It turned out to be a thick post with a vane on it 

to act as a weather cock and while we were resting on the top of the hill we noticed a heavy cloud 

being blown towards us so we decided to descend the hill as quickly as we could. The storm came 

faster than we expected and we had to shelter in a stone cattle shed. Here we stayed some 

considerable time, but were entertained by the account of someone having “nightmare” the 

previous night and explaining “fetch it yourself!” In the afternoon we had to abandon the football 

match owing to the heavy ram. 

Wednesday August 3rd 

At 9.30 the troop carrying lunch set out to go right down Dovedale to Thorpe cloud. Although it was 

a dull day the dale was pretty and the occasional bursts of sunshine added to the effect. At one place 

the whole west bank of the dale had been burned black; probably some thoughtless smoker had 

dropped alight among the sun-scorched 

grass. The 35th Derby (St Alkmunds) 

Troop, under Mr Bulivant were camping 

at Doveholes and we stayed there a 

short while. Further down the dale we 

saw several large trout in the stream 

and although they apparently saw us 

they made no effort to dart away. 

Possibly they were used to spectators. 

When we reached the foot of Thorpe 

cloud it threatened to rain so we went 

to the Isaac Walton Hotel and got some 

tea to drink with our lunch. Leaving the 

Isaac Walton we took an unfrequented 

footpath over the “Nick of-Bonsor” to 

Steplehouse Farm. This entailed the most difficult climbing we experienced on our trek but the 

seniors accepting responsibility for one junior we all arrived safely. 

On the return to camp via Stanhope, Hope dale, Alstonfield and Archford Moor; we stopped for a 

drink at a poultry farm kept by a man who we thought was a German. The man seemed quite 

pleased to have an opportunity of entertaining British boy scouts and showed us his poultry and 

incubators etc. the visit was much appreciated by everyone, especially “Jacko” who was able to 

indicate all the “Farmyard stock”. When we arrived back in camp we were quite ready for the 

excellent stew that Charlie Clarke had stayed in to get ready. After an hours rest we went for a 

bathe and found a new bathing place below Beresford bridge where it was possible to take a header 

in. 

Thursday August 4th

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We had previously decided to have a slack day and rest, in the afternoon we played Ley’s team at 

football and lost 3-1. In the evening St Alkmunds troop visited our camp and later we had a good 

sing-song. 

Friday August 5th 

It rained heavily all day, although it was 

continually “getting lighter” but despite 

the fact that most of the tents leaked 

Harry Powell kept us amused. It had been 

decided that the inter-tent competition in 

respect of kit inspection and the carrying 

out of orderly duties; should finish today, 

and the scoutmaster is pleased to take 

this opportunity of recording the facts 

that a very satisfactory 

standard of tidiness was maintained 

throughout the camp and that the patrol 

leaders responsible for the serving of 

meals attained a standard of punctuality, 

which is vastly superior to that reached at any other scout camp within the knowledge of the 

scoutmaster, who now expresses his appreciation of the manner in which everything was carried 

out, and congratulates No2 tent on winning first place in the competition, No tent coming close as 

runners up. The members of the winning tent were: - patrol leader R Williamson, seconds Clarke and 

Culloff and scout Scholes. 

Saturday August 6th 

In spite of the unsettled weather it had been decided by the Court-of- Honour that if it was fine this 

Saturday morning, camp should be struck and the trek commenced. It was fine in the morning, and 

accordingly we struck camp and the first party left for Bessington hall about half past one. Heavy 

kits, (excluding the “sausage”) and the tents were taken back to Derby on Ley’s lorry and a few of 

our number who were unable to stay the second week also returned.

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The remainder of the party with the pony left 

about an hour later and commenced the first 

trek of seventeen miles. About four o’clock 

when we were nearing Sterndale it started to 

rain and we were soon caught in a heavy 

downpour and had to shelter under the lee of a 

stone wall, here Mr Bennett joined us having 

cycled on after seeing to the safe departure of 

the Ley’s boys. 

Nearing Buxton we spotted group sitting on a 

wall by the roadside, they were the first party 

who had also sheltered from the rain. At Buxton 

we had some tea at a Hotel and startled the 

other visitors by giving three cheers for the 

unknown donor of one pound towards our camp 

expenses. About eight we left for Bennetston 

and arrived there when it was quite dark and 

commenced to erect our first bivouac, only to 

find that all the tent pegs and mallets had been 

sent back to Derby with the tents! However we 

fixed it up and next day made the mallet which 

now adorns the Rover’s room. 

Sunday August 7lh 

We awoke to find it raining and it was showery all day. A dry spot could be found under the trek 

carts but many complained of the unsporting behaviour of the “bivi”. Mr Bennett showed us how to 

iron the brim of a hat using a hot stone in place of an iron, but unfortunately the rain stopped us 

attending church so we were unable to parade our ironed hats! In the evening Mr Bennett’s brother 

motored over from Chapel-en-le-Frith, and we all went for a quiet walk to get the stiffness and damp 

out of our legs. 

Monday August 8th 

We left for Castleton about ten and decided to go down the pass of the Winnats which considerably 

shortened our journey. The track was very steep and the going was 

difficult and when we came to the foot of the pass and rested, we felt more tired than if we had 

made a long climb uphill. The descent was so steep that the pony had to be taken out of the shafts 

and led down. The Castleton doctor allowed us to camp on his field and after an early tea we went 

to see the sights.

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At the Speedwell cavern the manager allowed 

us to go in at the reduced charge except for the 

“five big fellows” and we went down the steps 

and made the journey by boat ' along the tunnel 

under the hills until we came to the platform 

which overlooks the natural cavern into which 

the debris excavated when the shaft was made 

was emptied without any appreciable result. 

When the guide opened the sluice and allowed 

a full flow of water into what is called the 

“bottomless pit” the roar was deafening and we 

were not sorry when the valve was closed. 

The Peak cavern was also visited and also the 

“Russett well” which is fed from an underground source arising in the limestone hills. This well was 

the only available drinking water for the whole of 

Castleton and we took back to camp a supply for our own 

use. The long spell of dry weather had exhausted all the 

other springs and wells. We let “Tommy” loose in the field 

and he resisted various attempts to pet him, finally he 

yielded to the kindness and Mr Bennett’s stick. In as much 

as the troop would divide into two parties on the morrow, 

a farewell sing-song was held in Mr Bennett’s tent. 

Tuesday August 9th 

Stores were divided and we set out on our respective ways 

about half past ten, Mr Bennett’s party going northward 

(see separate log), and the remainder commenced the 

return to Derby, journeying via Hope, Bradwell, Hucklow 

and Foolow to Eyam; where the vicar gave us permission 

to camp in the field adjoining the churchyard. 

In the evening we visited the Riley graves, where the 

members of the Riley family who died of the plague were buried, and then went to the Cucklet 

church and dell where the villagers who were not plague stricken lived until the crisis was over. Later 

in the evening Eric Hatton managed to cut mare than he could eat and necessitating his return to 

Derby. Rain fell in the night and several of our number managed to get their blankets wet, due, no 

doubt to their inability to lie still!

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Wednesday August 10th 

Troop leader Cott, who was taking Eric Hatton to the Derbyshire Royal Infirmary missed the first 

train and caught the next, and we left Eyam for Edensor spoiling Mason’s borrowed kit bag en route! 

At Edensor we were privileged to occupy the stable and loft adjoining the vicarage, and after the 

return from Derby of troop leader Cott visited Chatsworth Park and the tower but were unable to go 

to the house itself. 

Thursday August 11th 

We trekked on to Winster where Mr Nixon the vicar let us sleep in his summer house, the ground 

being thoroughly wet through. Before we left Mr Nixon showed us through his model workshop, and 

also the engine and electric lighting set he had made himself. Truly Mr Nixon ought to be a 

scoutmaster! 

Friday August 12th 

Leaving Winster fairly early we trekked through the beautiful countryside via Gellia, stopping half 

way up the hill for Charlie Clarke and Jacko to eat their lunch. At Idridgehay everything was so wet 

we were glad to sleep in a stable adjoining the Inn, and the stillness of the night was only broken by 

someone knocking over the porridge Dixie and a stentorious cry of alarm. 

Saturday August 13th 

We made our final trek to Derby, stopping for lunch at Kedleston, headquarters were reached about 

half past four and we found Mrs Coppard waiting with a good cup of tea.

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France 

August 4th - August 17th 

1934 

Here is the itinerary for the troops visit to France in 1934. 

The visit was to be ten days trekking in Normandy. 

Estimated cost, which includes return third-class railway fare from Derby to Southampton and 

tourist class by cross-channel steamer to Cherbourg, and rations over the period:— 

Under 18 - £4 10 0 to £5 0 0 

Over 18 - £5 10 0 to £6 0 0 

Camp kit should be as light as possible, and must not in any case weigh more than 

301bs. Kit bags must be marked with name, troop and Derby, England, in marking or 

indelible ink. Haversacks should be taken for use on trek, and for the journey from 

Derby, should contain towel and soap, knife, fork, spoon, plate and mug. 

Kits must be at Normanton Cottage by 7pm on Friday, August 3, ready for transport 

to the L.M.S station. 

The party will meet at 10pm on Friday, August 3rd, and will proceed to the Midland 

Hotel, where arrangements have been made for the use of a room until the time of 

departure from Derby. 

Dress 

Although on account of expense any special outlay of new scout kit may not be 

necessary, members of the party must endeavour to be as uniform as possible, and be 

particular in small details. It is very desirable that the right shade of khaki stockings 

be worn by everyone, and special attention should be given to the appearance of scout 

hats. Scout staves should be taken, and scouts are reminded that under scout rules 

thumb-sticks are not part of their kit. 

Outward Journey 

Leave Derby 3.18am. Arrive St. Pancras 7.25 am. Cross London to Waterloo. 

Breakfast provided. Leave Waterloo by the boat train 9am for Southampton. 

Leave Southampton by the S.S. Europa for Cherbourg. 

Return Journey 

The steamship company are unable to state the time of arrival at Southampton on the 

return journey on Friday, August 17th. 

Itinerary of trek

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Itinerary of trek, kindly arranged by Mons. Maurice Luchaire, Sous Prefecture, Cherbourg, Chief 

President of the “Eclaireurs Unionistes de France” and the “Elaireurs de France” in Cherbourg.

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A menu from one of the Hotels that the Troop stayed in at Cherbourg. As you can also see it 

was signed by everybody that went on the Trek. As well as some of the French party. Looking at the 

date on the menu and the itinerary above this must have been from one of their last meals, as it is 

dated for 16th August.

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The picture below is the letter from the International commissioner giving the 4 th permission to go 

on a trek to France. This had to be given to the National HQ of the place that the group were 

travelling to. For endorsement.

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Foston Summer Camp 1953 

Curlews 

P Collier 

D Lamb 

Peewits 

G Wilkinson 

M Evans 

B Ward 

Rams 

D Cockayne 

L Ward

Taken from the Peewits log book 1952-1954 

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Page 127 of 156 

Newcastle 1981 

The Leaders 

Akela Perkins 

Chil 

The Cubs 

Martin Whittle 

Gary McDonald 

Luke Soaper 

Gary Scott 

Mark Laban 

Karl Jefferson 

Martin Lee 

A group camp, the Cubs activities included visits to Edinburgh Castle, Tynemouth for the beach, a sixa-side 

football match with some Cubs from Cramlington (we lost) and swimming in the outdoor pool 

(freezing cold). We also spent the week watching horse racing - Gosforth Park Scout Campsite was 

next to Newcastle Race Course.

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The Saga of the Cabbage 

Akela Perkins, wanted some cabbage for the evening meal. We 

asked at the local shop but the shopkeeper had none, however 

he had loads on his allotment and would get us some for later. 

We went off and enjoyed our day out. Calling back at the shop 

we were given (free) two big dustbin liners full of cabbage. The 

Cubs didn't like cabbage and Akela Perkins and Chil spent the 

rest of the week eating it! That's why cabbage does not feature 

on Scout menus to this day.

Dover 1982 

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Alkmaar Holland 1983 

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Poole 1985 

Page 131 of 156

Bussem Holland 1986 

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Guernsey 1987 

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Goes Holland 1988 

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Guernsey 1989 

Page 140 of 156

Return to Roughton 

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Page 142 of 156

Wool, Dorset 2001 

Page 143 of 156

Thriftwood Scout Camp Site 

Brentwood - Essex 

2nd- 9th August 2003 

Page 144 of 156

Tissington 2008 

Centenary Camp 

held in the grounds of Tissington Hall 

by kind permission 

of 

Sir Richard Fitzherbert 

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Page 146 of 156

The Centenary 

Page 147 of 156

Page 148 of 156 

The Centenary of the 4th Derby (Derwent) Scout Group 

The following selections of photographs were all taken from our birthday weekend where we 

celebrated our centenary. There are photos from the HQ where we had all our archives set up on 

display for visitors to come and look at. We also had leaders on hand giving little sessions to the kids 

that came and had a look round. 

There are photos of the guests arriving at the birthday meal. This was held at Derby University and 

many old members and new members were invited. We had a sit down meal and a singer was on 

hand to keep us all happy. Many of the old boys sat around swapping stories and memories, but 

most of all it was a chance for us all to celebrate our 100 years of scouting with the 4 th Derby. 

There was a guest book available at the meal which most guests signed. Between the 

photos are some of the great things that were put into the books. 

It was great to see all my old friends there, the ones that are left anyway. It was also nice to see the 

new recruits still wanting to learn.

Page 149 of 156 

Shirley, our Beaver leader, 

showing some new children 

about the fun things that are 

done in Beavers. 

Karen, Our Group Scout 

Leader trying to get people 

interested in the tombola. 

That included a signed Burton 

Albion football shirt.

Our former Group scout 

Leader, Akela, David Taylor. 

Sharing a story with Angela 

Barrett our Explorer scout 

Leader at the time. 

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Page 151 of 156 

The following day the groups 

HQ was open again for guests 

to continue looking through 

the archives. Many of the 

former members and also 

parents of new members got 

chance to look 

through the log books that cubs and 

scouts used to keep many years ago. 

A tradition that unfortunately we no 

longer keep! There were even 

members finding their own entries 

in the books. Some of the guests 

were looking for family members 

that were in the 

group all those years ago. It didn't 

matter how old you were everybody 

that was involved, is involved and 

even some that want to be involved 

were there. The main event for the 

Sunday was a march around the 

estate and up to our local church St 

Giles. We were led by the District 

band,

Page 152 of 156 

made up mainly of members and 

former members of the 20th St 

Augustine's Scout Group. All 

sections of the group were 

represented including the old boys. 

Here are more of our 

archives on display, with 

GSL Karen Hesketh talking 

to some guests. 

Guests start to arrive for the 

meal and the evening's 

entertainment.

Guests soon start to have 

photo's taken to remember 

the occasion 

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Page 154 of 156 

Food and great entertainment made the night a great success. It looks like all that attended enjoyed 

themselves and managed to meet up with some old friends and also find out what the group is up to 

now.

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The Trail 

There’s a path made clear by those who’ve followed 

The trail the old Chief laid, 

And years ahead there’ll be others to tread 

The path that you have made. 

For every Scout who is worth the name 

Has learned to play the Scouting game, 

And younger brothers will follow his lead, 

And learn through him to be Scouts indeed. 

For a Scout won’t fail to follow the trail, 

The old Chief laid. 

C.J. Bennett 

Christmas 1948

4th Derby (Derwent) Centenary Book

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