Keeping-Tabs-Fall-2023

KEEPING TABS
The Advocates’ Society
FALL 2023

CONTENTS
05
07
10
14
16
Chair Chat
Chris Kinnear Hunter (he/him), Torys LLP
Litigating and Parenting: Musings from a
young advocate and a new-ish mom
Lisa Delaney (she/her), Cox & Palmer
Back to the future? The in-person v.
remote work debate revisited
Karlson Leung (he/him), Ontario Ministry of the Attorney General –
Crown Law Office Civil, James Hardy (he/him), Thornton Grout Finnigan
LLP, Celina Stoan (she/her), Rogers Partners LLP
Lawyerly Media for Inspiration
Keeping Tabs Team
Interview with John McIntyre (he/him),
McIntyre Szabo PC
Compiled by Aly Háji (he/him), Lax O’Sullivan Lisus Gottlieb LLP
Editor: Eric Blay, Barrister & Solicitor | eric.c.blay@gmail.com
Deputy Editor: Julie Mouris, Conway Baxter Wilson LLP/s.r.l. | jmouris@conwaylitigation.ca
Keeping Tabs Editorial Team: Katrina Crocker, Henein Hutchison Robitaille LLP, Lisa Delaney (she/her), Cox & Palmer, Aly Háji (he/him), Lax O’Sullivan Lisus
Gottlieb LLP, Glynnis Hawe, Paliare Roland Rosenberg Rothstein LLP, Karlson Leung (he/him), Ministry of the Attorney General, Crown Law Office and Jean-Simon Schoenholz,
Norton Rose Fulbright
The Young Advocates’ Standing Committee (“YASC”) is a standing committee of The Advocates’ Society with a mandate to be a voice for young advocates (advocates
who are ten years of call or fewer) within the Society and within the profession. We do this through networking/mentoring events, by publishing articles by and
for young advocates, and by raising issues of concern to young advocates as we work with the Society’s Board of Directors. The opinions expressed by individual
authors are their own and do not necessarily reflect the policies of The Advocates’ Society.
2 3

WHAT’S COMING UP @ TAS
(Click on the program to learn more)
NOV 22
Arbitration Advocacy
(Alberta)
NOV 22
Changing the
Conversation
NOV 23
Class Actions Bench &
Bar Reception
CHAIR CHAT
(Calgary, AB, Live
Stream)
(Toronto, ON, Live
Stream)
(Toronto, ON)
NOV 23
Thunder Bay Social
(Thunder Bay, ON)
NOV 28
Symposium pour les
femmes en litige
(Montréal, QC)
NOV 28
The Art of
Examination-in-Chief
(Toronto, ON, Zoom)
Chair Chat
Chris Kinnear Hunter (he/him), Torys LLP
“Autumn carries more gold in its pocket than all the other seasons combined.”
– Jim Bishop
NOV 29
The Art of Examination-in-Chief
- Skills
Workshop
(Toronto, ON, Zoom)
DEC 01
View From the B.C.
Bench
(Vancouver, BC, Live
Online)
DEC 04
Fireside Chat with The
Hon. Justice Richard
Bernstein
(Toronto, ON, Live
Stream)
NOV 29
President’s Festive
Reception
(Toronto, ON)
NOV 30
How to Deliver
Bad News
(Via Zoom)
I love the fall. Always have. Crimson leaves,
pumpkin pie and, above all else, the return of
NHL hockey. Does it get any better?
The challenge, of course, is finding time to
enjoy these things. After scheduling all things
litigation for “the fall” throughout the summer,
September hits like a ton of bricks. By the time
one gets to October, we all seem to be running
on fumes with no end in sight.
I won’t pretend to have the answer to that
one. I can, however, offer some momentary respite
in the form of this, our fall edition of Keeping
Tabs, which features a thoughtful piece by
Lisa Delaney on the challenges new parents
face maintaining their practice along with some
tips to achieve a bit of balance; a fantastic interview
with John McIntyre on his advocacy for
the 2SLGBTQ+ community and his exciting new
health law boutique; and the latest in the never-ending
‘working from home vs in-person’ debate,
courtesy of Karlson Leung, James Hardy,
and Celina Stoan. Our team has also put together
a stellar lineup of media picks featuring their
favourite podcasts, Ted Talks and films that you
don’t want to miss.
As always, my sincere thanks goes out to the
Keeping Tabs editorial team for their work putting
this edition together. Our lead editor, Eric
Blay, would love to hear from you if you’d like to
contribute a piece to a future edition.
5

SECTION TITLE
THE BALANCED BREAK: INSIGHTS FROM A PARENT LITIGATOR
Litigating and Parenting:
Musings from a young
advocate and a new-ish mom
Lisa Delaney (she/her), Cox & Palmer
When I first started thinking about this piece,
I considered offering some ‘tips’ for litigation
practice post-children. But then I remembered
how, as a parent, the last thing we want, or
need, is more unsolicited advice. That is what
the internet and your in-laws are for! Instead,
I thought I would offer my musings about returning
to practice after parental leave, and the
things that I have found worked for me (or not)
as I adjust to litigating and parenting.
As a private practice litigator, the billable
hour is always looming. However, I am grateful
for how supportive my firm has been. The partners
and staff at my firm have gone out of their
way to ensure I have the resources that I need
and that I am not under water with work. I recognize
that not everyone is so lucky. But supportive
firms exist — I can testify as such.
Carving out time
Before I had my son, I was militant about monitoring
and responding to my e-mails no matter
what time they landed in my inbox. However,
since my parental leave, I made the decision
to turn off the notifications on my phone from
daycare pick-up until my son’s bedtime. It was
hard at first, but it has become my new normal.
We’re taught to be available all the time,
but in my experience, very few things require
an immediate response. Muting notifications
during those few hours allows me to
be fully present with my child and gives me
some time to transition from my workday.
Using technology
If we can be grateful for one thing that the
pandemic has brought us, it is flexible work ar-
6 7

angements. People are much more accepting
of virtual meetings and working from home
than they have ever been. Taking advantage
of these flexibilities has been a necessity
when we inevitably come down with another
daycare-related plague. Seriously — since my
return to work this May, our household has
had strep throat, pink eye, a cold, and the flu.
In addition to flexible work arrangements, I
have become an entirely electronic litigator. I
take advantage of electronic files, e-discovery
software, Zoom discovery examinations, and
a virtual task list. This allows me to work from
anywhere, anytime.
Delegating
As litigators, we struggle with relinquishing
control and in my experience, parents may be
the biggest culprits. We truly believe we can
be everything to everyone all of the time. This
fallacy not only drains us but makes us feel inadequate.
I am still struggling with relinquishing
control. That said, I have tried to rely more
on my junior colleagues by letting them run
with research or an appearance on my behalf.
Not only is this kind of delegation integral to
the private practice model, it is also a mental
health necessity. Let’s all take a page out of
the Frozen playbook and try letting go.
Not having it together
In addition to my toddler, I am pregnant with
my second child, so I am exhausted most of
the time. It often feels like I finish one job at
work and then go home for my other, unpaid
gig. While I am lucky to have a supportive firm
and an incredible partner, I do not have it together
all the time. I am also reconciling that
I am not the same litigator I was before I had
children. Not better, not worse — just different.
Truthfully, I am not sure I am the same
person. But I have learned that for me, being
my best is okay, and if it isn’t for others, that
is okay too.
8 9

eturn to the office that offers fewer distractions, more social connections and a sense of community,
and ease of collaboration and mentoring.
For this issue of Keeping Tabs, we juxtapose both sides of this debate, championed by two of
TAS’s very own young advocates.
Karlson Leung James Hardy Celina Stoan
VIRTUAL VS. REALITY: THE FUTURE OF WORK
Back to the future? The in-person v.
remote work debate revisited
Karlson Leung (he/him), Ontario Ministry of the Attorney General – Crown Law Office Civil
James Hardy (he/him), Thornton Grout Finnigan LLP
Celina Stoan (she/her), Rogers Partners LLP
Work From Home Optimizes Productivity and Quality of Life
Celina Stoan – Insurance Defence Litigator
When the pandemic hit in March 2020, most
firms sent their staff home to limit the spread
of the virus. Eventually, most of us have begun
to come back to the office. I have been fortunate
enough to be allowed some flexibility in
my “in-office” schedule. I say fortunate, because
I am on the pro “work-from-home” side
of this debate.
Some people have told me they find themselves
to be less productive when working from home. I,
on the other hand, find that I am more productive.
Like many lawyers, I am a social person, so when
I am in the office, I often find myself popping into
a colleague’s office to ask a question and suddenly
it’s half an hour later and we’re discussing the
best places to get Bahn Mi. On the flip side, when
working from home, I often find myself working
through lunch and well past any imaginary 5:00
p.m. end time when I’m wrapped up in something.
I also find that when I work from home, I’ll often
log in on a Sunday to manage emails and get a
head start on the week.
For me, working from home offers many advantages
which an office environment does not. I
don’t have to prepare my lunch in the morning or
purchase lunch out, I save half an hour a day by
not commuting to work which generally results in
an earlier start time and later end time, I am able
to use my daily breaks to walk my dog, and I’m also
able to work (most days) in comfortable clothes
like jogging pants and a sweatshirt. I also find that
working from home enables me to have more regular
contact with my family – not distractions, but
just a shoulder squeeze from my husband as he
passes behind me to go to the kitchen or a nuzzle
from my dog to show me his toy.
That being said, I have maintained that in my
practice, litigation events such as examinations,
mediations, and court appearances should be
done from the office to take advantage of ready
access to colleagues to collaborate with and discuss
thorny issues.
Introduction by Karlson Leung, Crown Counsel
With fall season back in full swing, this time of year brings many familiar perennial themes:
pumpkin spice everything, back to school, and back to work after a restful summer vacation.
Recent months have also seen many firms and employers either roll out new return-to-the-office
policies or remote work arrangements. For many in the legal profession, this fall also brings
back the debate between in-person and hybrid/work-from-home (WFH) arrangements.
Last year, the Young Advocates’ Standing Committee (YASC) heard from a diverse range of
perspectives and lived experiences on the benefits of different work environment arrangements
and what the delivery of legal services should look like in the future. During the 2021-2022 term,
YASC interviewed or surveyed more than 220 young advocates across Canada (those with 10
years of call or less). A link to the full Report can be found here.
With 2024 around the corner and members of the bar having experienced three years of pandemic-induced
remote work, many young advocates have celebrated the new possibilities that
remote work brings – more time with loved ones and pets, less commute time, more productivity,
and more accommodations for personal circumstances – while others have been eager to
10 11

Dedicated Office Space Enables
Social Connection and Allows
Separation of Work and Home Life
James Hardy – Commercial Litigator
I spent the first few years of my legal career
like most of us did before 2020: five days a
week in the office, with the occasional weekend
appearance. I’m glad for the benefits that
flexible working offers, but for me, working
in the office is the best way to connect with
colleagues, disconnect at home, and develop
as a professional.
Law is a tough but rewarding profession
and success depends upon building a strong
community of peers. That community is built
on the small chance interactions that happen
when you share a space. Your examination
finishes early, so you grab lunch with a colleague
and discuss your litigation strategy.
You overhear colleagues discussing a case
that you recently used in a factum, so you offer
to share notes. Or you see a colleague repeatedly
at their desk late at night and offer
to cover for them. It is much harder to build
a supportive community when all you have
to go on is the colour of a Microsoft Teams
status icon.
The rise of working from home also means
the rise of the home office. Young lawyers
place enormous pressure on themselves to
always be available, so when we work from
home, the separation of our personal and
professional lives gets blurred – and if expensive
property markets mean our home
office might be a kitchen table with a laptop
on it, there is always a reminder of the work
we still have to complete. There are mental
health benefits to leaving the work at work,
so that we can truly switch off when we get
home.
Hybrid arrangements offer many advantages,
but you will still find me most mornings
on my bike heading downtown.
*The views expressed in this article are the personal views of Mr. Leung and should not be taken as the views of either the
Attorney General of Ontario or the Government of Ontario.
12 13

Your injured client
needs more than
a settlement.
MEDIA PICKS
Lawyerly Media for Inspiration
Compiled by the Keeping Tabs Team
Robichaud’s “Of Counsel”
Podcast: Ewa Krajewska:
“Confidence in yourself and
the materials”
Guy Pratte’s “The Art of
Persuasion” Podcast:
Changing People’s Minds
with David Goldbloom
Paula Price’s “The Joyful Practice for
Women Lawyers” Podcast:
“What Perfectionism is Costing You”
Stand for the best guaranteed
return for your client.
STRUCTURE IT EVERY TIME. 1.800.265.8381 | www.mckellar.com
14
Friends Who Argue
“Parenting in Law”
Amy Cuddy’s Ted Talk on
“Your body language may
shape who you are”
Film: Just Mercy (2019)
15

Q. Could you tell me about your health law practice? How does health law intersect with
your advocacy in the 2SLGBTQ+ community?
A. My practice involves essentially any kind of dispute or litigation matter in the healthcare sphere.
It sounds super niche, but the reality is that I’m rarely doing the same thing every day. One day I’ll be
defending a healthcare practitioner on a medical malpractice matter or regulatory complaint, and the
next I’ll be dealing with a complex physician privilege issue or a mental health appeal.
There is a huge intersection between my practice and my advocacy, because the 2SLGBTQ+ community
has been (and continues to be) significantly marginalized, particularly when it comes to access
to healthcare and health outcomes. As an out gay lawyer, I’ve always felt it is important to use my privilege
to support my community. And I’m always looking for new ways to integrate it into my health law
practice; for example, I recently advocated against anti-trans speech by regulated health professionals
in the Peterson v. College of Psychologists of Ontario case 1 as well as representing trans and non-binary
people fighting for OHIP coverage of gender-affirming care.
1. Peterson v. College of Psychologists of Ontario, 2023 ONSC 4685 (Div Ct).
INTERVIEW
Interview with John McIntyre
(he/him), McIntyre Szabo PC
Compiled by Aly Háji (he/him), Lax O’Sullivan Lisus
Gottlieb LLP
John McIntyre founded McIntyre Health Law in 2022 and then co-founded McIntyre Szabo PC in 2023
with Jessica Szabo. Prior to establishing his own firm, John was a senior associate in the health law
group at a major Canadian law firm and obtained his Master of Public Health from Johns Hopkins University.
John routinely represents and advises clients in the health care sector. His practice focuses on
professional regulation and discipline (including defending clients in College complaints and discipline
matters), medical staff credentialing, mental health law (CCB/ORB), appellate advocacy, human rights
applications, civil litigation (including medical malpractice lawsuits), as well as general legal, clinical, operational,
policy and risk advice.
Q. Is your advocacy in the 2SLGBTQ+ community what led you to start your own firm?
A. Actually, it’s the other way around. Running my own firm has given me the freedom to build a practice
that is meaningful to me. There is no one looking over my shoulder telling me what I should bill,
which clients I can take on pro bono or what issues I can take a stance on. If I want to do it, I do it.
My partner, Jessica Szabo, and I have two core values to our firm: (1) contribute to the betterment of
the healthcare system; and (2) enjoy our careers. It’s that simple for us. And the 2SLGBTQ+ advocacy
work hits on both of those values in spades for me.
Q. I was inspired by your work on the Jordan Peterson judicial review at the Ontario Divisional
Court; it was remarkable to see a small, relatively new firm compete with some real
heavy hitters. How did you get involved?
A. I’m not going to lie, it was pretty surreal to look around the courtroom to see so many senior counsel
I’ve looked up to in my career. It was a turning point for me in the goals I set for myself and the firm,
because, at the time, it was beyond my wildest dreams to think I would be at that table so soon after
starting the firm. Now, I set no limits to how big or audacious those goals are. If it’s something I want to
do, I’m going to try.
When I heard about the case, I knew it was something I had to be involved in – it was at the perfect
intersection of my professional regulation practice and 2SLGBTQ+ rights. I did extensive background
research and workshopped my potential arguments, then started hitting the ground by reaching out to
2SLGBTQ+ advocacy organizations, and the whole thing snowballed from there.
16 17

Q. Do you have any advice for young advocates who want to go out on their own?
A. It’s not as scary as it looks. And trust me, I know the fear. Years ago, I would look at young advocates
who went out on their own with envy – I thought they walked on water. I never thought it could be me.
Frankly, I never wanted it to be me – I was one of those people who said I’d never start my own firm. But
it has by far been the best decision of my career and I can’t imagine ever going back.
If you’re thinking about it – reach out to me or talk to other lawyers doing it (shameless plug - through
the TAS mentorship portal). I have found the small firm bar to be tremendously open, kind and interested
in lifting others up for success.
Q. What advice would you give young advocates who want to be their authentic selves?
A. Don’t listen to the explicit and implicit pressures to suppress who you are. Law has traditionally
been a more conservative industry, but it is changing. You will be more successful in your career when
you bring your whole self to your work, because your confidence will shoot through the roof, and your
passion will be infectious.
For me, being my authentic self in my practice includes not hiding parts of my life just because others
may not accept it. For example, I’m an out gay polyamorous man in a long-term three-person relationship.
Some have said I should check that part of my life at the door. But, in my experience, you connect
most with your clients when you engage on a personal level and so I am open about both of my partners
to my clients and colleagues, which makes it easier to show up as my authentic self.
Q. Speaking of which, you’ve been very involved in TAS’s new mentorship portal. Why do
you think mentorship is important for young advocates, particularly those from diverse
and equity-seeking communities?
A. I think the portal is such an important program, whether you’re at a big or a small firm, because it exposes
you to mentors with different perspectives who don’t have a direct stake in your career. Funnily
enough, our landlord for our firm office space is Megan Keenberg (of Keenberg & Co), who I initially met
through an Advocates’ Society mentorship session and Megan has become instrumental as an ongoing
mentor to me.
Mentorship is essential for those from diverse and equity-seeking communities because there isn’t a
level playing field. But it is equally important, in my view, to have mentorship from those in diverse and
equity-seeking communities. Young advocates need to see themselves represented in senior parts of
the bar and to see there is not one mold of what makes a good litigator.
Q. What can more experienced lawyers do to support those young advocates as mentors?
A. If you are also part of a diverse and equity-seeking community, don’t assume your experiences
are the same. If you are not, do the work to build cultural competency so you can properly support
your mentee. Be there to truly listen and hear your mentee to tailor your guidance to them, rather
than just assuming what worked for you will work for them.
Also, mentoring is more than just giving advice and guidance. For mentees in your firm, give
them opportunities. Give them the chance to interact directly with clients. Give them challenging
projects that will help them grow even if they aren’t quite ready. Let them be first chair. Be their
champion behind closed doors in the firm. Your biggest success as a lawyer is not the cases you’ve
won, but the positive impact you make on the next generation of lawyers.
18 19

Toronto Big Mingle
Wednesday, August 9, 2023 | The Advocates’ Society, Toronto, ON
20 21

www.advocates.ca