qronika+336

CIAN MAGENTA YALLOW BLACK

294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com

yovelkvireuli gazeTi

gv. 4

RaribaSvili,

janyaraSvili,

TamazaSvili,

tripolski, _

gamodis orSabaTobiT

N4 4 (336) 22.03

03.20

.2021

21 fasi 2 lari

vin monawileobda vaxtang

goZiaSvilis biznesis

warTmevis saqmeSi?

giorgi botkoveli:

`dasavleTi

ivaniSvils

molaparakebebis

CaSlas ar

apatiebs~

gv. 30

nika CitaZe:

`dasavleTSi

TavianTi

gancxadebebiT

TiTqos

aqezebdnen

`qarTul

ocnebas~

gv. 28

irakli Rlonti:

`saakaSvilTan

opoziciam

Secdoma

bevrjer

dauSva!~

gv. 22

gogi wulaias saqmis

gauxmaurebeli

detalebi

nini cecxlaZe: `Tu es SegeZlo,

rom mcodnoda, ar gagyvebodi~

ra informacia moipova `qronika+~-ma

14 wlis nini cecxlaZis TviTmkvlelobaze?

gv. 2

vin aris asmaT dvaliSvili da ra

provokaciaze wamoago man politikosi?

gv. 10

valeri gelbaxiani:

gia xuxaSvili:

Salva naTelaSvili:

gv. 20

`biZinas fuls ra

gamoulevs da rogorc

Cans, lobistebSi didi

fuli ixarjeba!~

N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

gv. 6

`xalxma

opoziciis

mimarT ndoba

dakarga~

gv. 8

`wels biZina

ivaniSvili

politikurad

dasruldeba~

1


gogi wulaias saqmis

tv „pirvelis” eTerSi bera ivani-

eliso kilaZe

Svilisa da irakli RaribaSvilis Ca-

599 17 12 12

naweris gamoqveynebam „ocnebis” gundSi

sruli qaosi gamoiwvia. Canaw-

erebis gamotanaSi eWvmitanilia yvela, visac Sexeba hqonda

susTan, otosTan, mosmenebTan, partiis ofisTan da ivaniSvi-

lis „SuSis sasaxlesTan”.

marTalia, mmarTveli gundi oficialurad Canawerebis

damzadebas „nacionalur moZraobas” abralebs, magram, realu-

rad, moRalates gundis SigniT eZebs.

Canawerebis gamoqveynebis Semdeg

Seuqcevadi procesebi daiwyo:

partiis mTavarma ideologma,

laSa nacvliSvilma, jer „ocnebis”

ofisi datova, mere ki _

mis mierve dafuZnebuli „post

tv”. „qronika+”-

”-is wyaros informaciiT,

laSa nacvliSvili ara

mxolod Canawerebis, aramed finansebis

miTvisebaSic aris mxilebuli.

„damiWerT da iseTi

Canawerebi maqvs, sabolood afeTqdebiT!”

_ daemuqra is

„qarTul ocnebas”.

meore versiiT, eWvmitanilia

gaxarias frTac: erTi mxriv,

aleqsandre xojevaniSvili da

meore mxriv, kaxa sabanaZe.

berasa da irakli RaribaSvilis

Canawerebis gavrcelebas sazogadoebis

aRSfoTeba moyva.

erTmaneTis miyolebiT daigegma

ramdenime aqcia, maT Soris, „Seagine

beras”. gamonaklisi arc

gogi wulaia yofila, _ man satelevizio

eTerSi performansi

moawyo: „Seagine biZina ivaniSvilis

vaJs” da Tan sajarod daubara,

_ modi Cemamdeo.

hoda, mividnen! maSin, roca

gogi wulaia naqiraveb binaSi megobar

qalTan erTad imyofeboda,

mas eZina, patrulma gaaRviZa

da uTxra, rom igi eWvmitanilia

seqsualur ZaladobaSi da daakava,

paralelurad ki mis meuRles

daurekes, _ Tqveni qmari ucxo

qalTan erTad imyofeboda da

Zaladobis gamo dakavebuliao.

aRmoCnda, rom gogi wulaias

„megobari qali”,

sinamdvileSi,

staJiani agent-provokatori asmaT

dvaliSvilia, romelic sxvadasxva

dros msgavsi sqemiT ramdenime

analogiur situaciaSi

iyo gamoZiebis „oqros mowme”,

maT Soris, igive braldebiT

uCioda warsulSi nasamarTlev

vaxtang j.-s, _ seqsualurad Zaladobda

Cemzeo. gogi wulaias

dakavebis mere „qronika+”-s

daukavSirda quTaisis sakrebulis

yofili deputati, romelic

ambobs, rom asmaT dvaliSvili

gadabirebuli agentia, romelic

provokaciebiT aris cnobili.

igi fizikurad Seexo aRniSnul

pirs. gamoZieba mimdinareobda

quTaisis Ss sammarTvelos mexuTe

ganyofilebaSi, magram sabolood

dvaliSvili ar dasajes

da mas ganrideba gaukeTes. Cveni

wyaros informaciiT, mas Tavdeb-

Si daudga samxedro piri.

rogorc „qronika+”-

”-s saku-

Tari wyaro uyveba, dvaliSvils,

ZiriTadad, samxedro mimarTulebiT

amuSavebdnen. am faqts adasturebs

misi mdidari fotoarqivi,

_ sxvadasxva dros gadaRebuli

fotoebi genStabis yofil

ufros vladimer CaCibaiasTan,

kadetTa liceumis xelmZRvanelTan

da sxva samxedro oficrebTan.

igive wyaro gviyveba, rom

asmaT dvaliSvils axlo megobroba

akavSirebda dasavleTis

mimarTulebis sardal miSa sa-

`bodiSs gixdi, swori xar, ara,

me maqvs problema, mara amaze

xom ar aris saubari, biWo, aq

aris elementarul raRacaze

saubari, biWo. uyureb, rom ara

var agresiuli, ra. raRac

elementarulebs gTxov, mere

elementarulad damijeqi-Tqva,

SeCema. ara, `vsio~, ar minda, nu

ginda, `vsio~, araferi, bodiSi...~

vin aris asmaT

dvaliSvili da

ra provokaciaze

wamoago man

politikosi?

duniSvilTan. am megobrobis wyalobiT

mas wvdoma hqonda samxedro

nawilebTan da Tavisuflad

gadaadgildeboda samxedro

obieqtebze. igive wyaro ambobs,

rom dvaliSvilis moqmedi kuratori

aris susis ufrosis amJamindeli

moadgile levan axoba-

Ze. am Temas „qronika+” momdevno

nomrebSi vrclad daubrundeba.

rogorc sagamoZiebo masalebis

mixedviT gairkva, asmaT dvaliSvili,

gogi wulaias Zaladobis

dasturad, misive telefoniT

pirad saubars iwerda. sul misi

telefonidan amoRebulia oTxi

videofaili, romlis fragmentebic

satelevizio eTerSi mayurebelma

ukve naxa. „qronika+

gTavazobT oTxive videofailis

gaSifrul stenogramas, sadac

cxadad Cans, rom gogi wulaia

dadgmuli provokaciis msxverplia.

***

sagamoZiebo moqmedeba mimdinareobda

wynar, mSvid viTarebaSi,

yovelgvari iZulebis

gamoyenebis gareSe. sagamoZiebo

moqmedebis msvlelobis videogadaRebas

awarmoebs gamomZiebeli

beqa devnozaSvili. teqnikuri

saSualebis saxiT gamoyenebuli

aris iphone 7 firmis telefoni.

sagamoZiebo moqmedebebis farglebSi

daTvalierebul iqna asmaT

dvaliSvilis TanxmobiT, misi

kuTvnili XIAOMI REDMI firmis

mobiluri telefoni. telefonis

mexsierebis baraTSi nanaxi iqna

2021 wlis 17 martis 02:22 wT-dan

2021 wlis 17 martis 02:34 wT-mde

arsebuli 4 (oTxi) videofaili.

pirveli videofaili daTariRebulia

2021 wlis 17 martis 02:22

wT-iT. videofailis xangrZlivoba

aris 1 wuTi da 38 wami. misi

gaxsnisas Canawerze Cans sawol-

Si mwoliare giorgi (gogi) wulaia,

romelsac tanT acvia bretelebiani

maisuri da gadafarebuli

aqvs gadasafarebeli. 00:01

wamidan iwyeba qalis saubari,

sadac igi ambobs Semdeg frazas,

_ ra ver gaige? razedac 00:02

wamze giorgi wulaia pasuxobs:

„biWos”. 00:02 wamidan 00:07 wm-mde

aris siCume da kvlav igive kadri

Cans, ris Semdegac 00:07 wm-ze

giorgi wulaia ambobs: `prosta,

ra minda, ici”, razedac 00:09 wmze

qali pasuxobs: `ra ginda”,

razedac giorgi wulaia 00:10 wm-

2 N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.


gauxmaurebeli detalebi

dan 00:21 wm-mde ambobs: è dedamotynuli,

xo SeiZleba, erTxel

cxovrebaSi saerTod adamianma

rom erT kacs xasiaTi gausworoT”,

razedac 00:22 wm-dan

00:39 wm-mde qali ekiTxeba: `ra

unda gagisworoT”. giorgi wulaia

00:23 wm-dan 00:30 wm-mde pasuxobs:

`Tuki atyob, rom me Sen ar

SegWam da gTxov, modi ager”,

razedac 00:30 wm-ze qali pasuxobs:

àr minda, Zalaa”. 00:31 wmdan

00:39 wm-mde giorgi wulaia

abobs: ,,Zala rom iyos, Sen ki ara,

giorgi wulaia ambobs: `xo Sei-

Zleba, ase, a, vdeb ase Tavs gamige”,

razedac 00:11 wm-ze qali pasuxobs:

`mere”. 00:12 wm-dan 00:22

wm-mde giorgi wulaia agrZelebs

saubars: ,,modixar, mkocni, ager

(xels iSvers sakuTar tuCebze)

da Rame mSvidobisas meubnebi,

gamorTav sinaTles da iZineb da

viZineb, he, ra”, razedac 00:23 wmze

qali pasuxobs: àr gavakeTeb”.

00:25 wm-ze giorgi wulaia ambobs:

`ratom”, razedac qali pasuxobs:

,,imitom”. 00:27 wm-dan

giorgi wulaia pasuxobs: `rais

momt***vneli var, e dedamot***nuli”,

qali amvdroulad

ambobs: `ra vici, Zaan dameWidave

da Zaan mimaWire”, razedac giorgi

wulaia pasuxobs: ìs rom ar

gekbina, ra moxdeboda?”. razedac

qali pasuxobs: `me Tavs vicavdi,

rato gamxade iZulebuli, Tavi

damecva? rato damikoWe xelebi?”

giorgi wulaia ambobs: `sul

igini gadagikoWe, qamari gadagikoWe”,

razedac qali pasuxobs:

,,qamari ar iyo, mara xelebiT xom

,,ar minda araferi”, umeorebs

ramdenjerme. giorgi wulaia

03:18 wm-ze ambobs: `Sublze”,

razedac qali kvlav pasuxobs:

,,ar minda”. 03:22-dan 03:26-mde

qali ambobs: `saerTod ar minda,

momiaxlovde da Semexo”, giorgi

wulaia kvlav ambobs: `Sublze”,

razedac qali eubneba: àra”, ris

Semdegac giorgi wulaia eubneba:

,,maSin, Sen makoce” da qali kvlav

pasuxobs: àr minda amis gakeTeba,

Zalaa? ver gavige, daiZine,

midi”. 03:42 wm-dan giorgi

qali pasuxobs: ,,mere, me ra davaSave?”

razedac giorgi wulaia

pasuxobs: `Senc araferi”, ra

drosac kadri 04:28 wm-ze

mTavrdeba.

mesame videofiri daTariRebuli

aris 2021 wlis 17 martis

02:33 sT-iT. videofailis xangr-

Zlivoba aris 0 wT da 25 wami.

videofailis gaxsnisas, kvlav

Cans giorgi wulaia, romelic

wevs loginSi da acvia bretelebiani

maisuri da afaria gadasafarebeli.

00:01 wm-ze giorgi

me gikbendi”, razedac 00:40 wmdan

giorgi wulaia agrZelebs

saubars: ,,me rom Zala mindodes,

maSin me gamovxatavdi agresias,

agresia Sen gamoxate”, razedac

00:48 wm-ze qali pasuxobs: ,,me xom

gTxove, ar momekaro-Tqo”. 00:50

wm-dan 01:28 wm-mde giorgi wulaia

ambobs: ,,ara, „vsio”, me xom ar

geubnebi, rom me var marTali-

Tqo, bodiSs gixdi, swori xar,

ara, me maqvs problema, mara amze

xom ar aris saubari, biWo, aq

aris elementarul raRacaze

saubari. biWo, uyureb, rom ara

var agresiuli, ra, raRac elementarulebs

gTxov, mere elementarulad

damijeqi-Tqva, SeCema.

ara „vsio”, ar minda. nu ginda

„vsio”, araferi, bodiSi”, razedac

01:28 wm-ze qali pasuxobs:

`kai”. 01:29 wm-dan 01:35 wm-mde

giorgi wulaia ambobs: `bodiSi,

me bodiSi, xo ar vxatav Sens mimarT

agresias”, razedac 01:35 wmze

qali pasuxobs: àra”. da Canaweris

bolos giorgi wulaia eubneba:

àba, „vsio”.

meore videofiri daTariRebuli

aris 2021 wlis 17 martis

02:32 sT-iT. videofailis xangr-

Zlivoba aris 4 wuTi da 28 wami.

videofiris gaxsnisas kvlav Cans

giorgi wulaia, romelic wevs

loginSi, acvia bretelebiani maisuri

da afaria gadasafarebeli.

00:01 wm-ze ismis giorgi wulaias

naTqvami: `vici”, razedac 00:02

wm-dan 00:04 wT-mde ismis qalis

xma: `biWo, ra ginda, daiZine”.

paralelurad giorgi wulaia

agrZelebs saubars: ,,exla mismine”,

razedac qali pasuxobs:

`xo”. 00:04 wm-dan 00:10 wm-mde

00:32 wm-mde xelebs Slis giorgi

wulaia da ambobs: ,,he, maSin

Caaqre, mara, maSin erT survils

gTxov”, razedac 00:32 wm-ze qali

ekiTxeba: `ras?”, giorgi wulaia

pasuxobs: ,,xval damaxrCob orjer”.


,,ara”, razedac giorgi wulaia

ekiTxeba: ,,deviZino?” qali pasuxobs:

,,daiZine”. giorgi wulaia

ekiTxeba: ,,dilas gaviRviZeb?”

razedac qali pasuxobs: ,,gaiRvi-

Zeb”. 00:42 wm-dan 00:45 wm-mde

giorgi wulaia Slis xelebs da

ambobs: ,,mama mia”. 00:45 wm-dan

00:53 wm-mde qali da giorgi wulaia

ar saubroben, ris Semdegac


`ras merCodi, magis deda”,

razedac 00:55 wm-ze qali ekiTxeba:

,,rato dametake?” razedac

giorgi wulaia pasuxobs: ,,ara,

„prosta”, ras gizavdi, eh ras

vizavdi, exla vixvartalebdi,

vixvartalebdi, ras vizavdi, ise,

„prosta”, ras vizavdi”, razedac

qali ekiTxeba: `rato dametake?”

giorgi wulaia pasuxobs: `ras

vizavdi”, razedac qali 01:11-dan

01:13-mde eubneba: `racxas izavdi,

ar mindoda”, razedac giorgi

wulaia kvlav imeorebs: `ras

vizavdi, ras vizavdi amnair saswauls,

rom ar mogsvlia, ai, ras

vizavdi, gaficeb yvelafers”.

01:36 wm-ze qali pasuxobs: `yo-

CaR, yoCaR”. 01:47 wm-ze qali ambobs:

,,cudi biWi xar Sen”, razedac

giorgi wulaia pasuxobs:

,,SeiZleba”. 01:58 wm-ze giorgi

wulaia ambobs: `mara ras vSvebodi

amnairs, gaficeb”, razedac

qali pasuxobs: `momt***navdi,

maqsimum, da hei didi”, razedac

N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

gadamkoWe. ar mindoda xelebis

mosma, rasac akeTebdi is da mofereba,

xom giTxari?”. giorgi wulaia

pasuxobs: `me xom ar giCivivar

da prosta ra pontia magis

laparaki”, razedac qali 02:59

wm-ze pasuxobs: ,,daisvene, midi,

daiZine”. 03:02-dan 03:06 giorgi

wulaia eubneba qals: `moval da

Tu ar gaCerde”, razedac qali

pasuxobs: `Sen xo xar normaluri”,

giorgi wulaia eubneba: `mismine,

erT wuTas, erT sityvas geubnebi.

Sublze gakoceb”, razedac


wulaia ambobs: ,,xo ar gTxov rames.

seqss xom ar gTxov, arafers

ar gTxov, ara, prosta, modi da

Sublze makoce”, razedac qali

pasuxobs aras da iTxovs daisvenos.

giorgi wulaia pasuxobs:

,,me moval da Sublze gakoceb”,

razedac qali kvlav pasuxobs:

,,ara” da iTxovs daisvenos, razedac

giorgi wulaia pasuxobs: ,,e,

dedamotynuli, daZineba rom SemeZlos,

Seni azriT, ar daviZinebdi

da Sen dagiwyebdi amden laparaks?

mara ar SemiZlia, ver viZineb,

Svilebs vficavar”, razedac

levan axobaZe

wulaia ambobs: `xom ar geubnebi

arsad kocnas, ai Sublze makoce

da deviZineb”, razedac 00:06 wm-

dan 00:08 wm-mde qali pasuxobs:

àra-Tqo, rato mejinebi, ver

gavige?” razedac giorgi wulaia

00:09 wT-ze pasuxobs: `maSin, me

unda gakoco”, razedac qali pasuxobs:

,,ar minda-Tqo da ratom

mabrazeb, ver gavige?!” razedac

giorgi wulaia ekiTxeba: ,,rato

gabrazeb?” razedac qali pasuxobs:

,,ar minda, ra ver gaige?”

giorgi wulaia eubneba: ,,gelaparakebi,

gogo”. 00:24 wm-dan

00:25 wm-mde giorgi wulaia ambobs:

`kai, Caaqre, Caaqre”, sadac

video sruldeba.

meoTxe videofiri daTariRebulia

2021 wlis 17 martis 02:34

sT-iT. videofailis xangrZlivoba

aris 0 wT 21 wami. videofiris

gaxsnisas kadri ar Cans, mxolod

ismis saubari: giorgi wulaia

00:01 wm-dan qals eubneba: àxlo-

Si iweqi”, razedac qali pasuxobs:

àr minda, kaco, aqeT viqnebi,

ufro daculad vgrZnob Tavs”.


`daculad, auf da ex! eg

daculad ukve glaxaT Tqvi, Seg-

Wam?” razedac 00:16 wm-ze qali

pasuxobs: àr minda”, razedac

giorgi wulaia pasuxobs: `kai, xo,

daiZine, daiZine”,

”, sadac mTavrdeba

videofiri 00:21-e wamze.

oTxive videofiri gadaRebulia

mobiluri telefoniT da

misi Canaweri gakeTebulia DVD

diskze or calad. erTi dailuqa

#20 luqiT da daerTo sisxlis

samarTlis saqmes, xolo meore

dacvis mxareze gadacemis mizniT,

daluqvis gareSe daerTo saqmes.

3


RaribaSvili, janyaraSvili,

biznesmeni vaxtang goZiaSvili

eliso kilaZe

qveynidan mas Semdeg wavida, rac

599 17 12 12

jer biznesi waarTves, mere daemuqrnen

da mis mier gakeTebul sajaro

gancxadebebze prokuraturam gamoZieba mxolod formalu-

rad daiwyo, magram saqme am dromde Tarozea Semodebuli. is

amJamad amerikis SeerTebul StatebSi imyofeba da Sexvedrebs

marTavs sxvadasxva saerTaSoriso organizaciaSi: Human rights

Watch, Amnesty international, Freedom House.

vaxtang goZiaSvili „qronika+~-s

niu-iorkidan daukav-

Sirda da biznesis axevis saqme-

Si axali figurantebi dausax-

ela:

_ qveynidan wasuli xarT. ra

roli hqonda am saqmeSi dRevandel

premier-ministr irak-

li RaribaSvils da mis axlo

garemocvas?

_ Cven ukve gvqonda am sakiTxis

Sesaxeb detaluri saubari.

iqidan gamomdinare, rom

RaribaSvili aRar iyo arc erT

Tanamdebobaze da miT umetes,

premier-ministri aRar iyo, amitom

amdeni xnis ganmavlobaSi

amaze aqcenti ar gamikeTebia.

_ vaxtang, mkiTxvelisTvis

rom ufro gasagebi iyos,

mogviyeviT, ras exeba Tqveni

qeisi?

_ kompania „em-en jorjias”,

romelmac 2014 wels gaaforma

xelSekruleba „jorjia manganezTan”,

garemopovebasTan dakavSirebiT

hqonda eqskluzivi.

ufro sworad, es sqema Tavidan

bolomde Cven davalageT, anu

Cemi sqemiT da Cemi iniciativiT.

amis Semdeg Cemma nacnobma

parlamentis wevrma imdroindel

premier-ministrs informacia

miawoda. Cven maSin xelisuflebis

mxardaWera gvWirdeboda,

raTa marganecis ukanono

mopoveba aRekveTaT. maSindeli

premier-ministri gaxldaT

irakli RaribaSvili.

_ davakonkretoT, vin iyo

parlamentis deputati da ra

formiT hqonda irakli Rarib-

aSvilTan komunikacia?

_ deputatma irakli tripolskim,

romelTan erTadac visxediT

„redisonSi”, Cem Tvalwin

daureka da mesmoda, roca

irakli RaribaSvils esaubreboda.

maSin Cemda gasakvirad

moxda iseTi rame, ramac gagvaoca:

irakli RaribaSvilma gadagvamisamarTa

pirdapir janyaraSvilTan,

_ TurqeTSia ori

dRiT wasuli da rom Camova,

daelaparakeT janyaraSvilso.

_ davazusteb: janyaraSvili

maSin raime Tanamdebobaze

muSaobda Tu, ubralod, misi

colis naTesavi iyo?

_ ki da magitom gamikvirda,

radgan janyaraSvili maSin iyo

geninspeqciis xelmZRvaneli da

saerTod gamikvirda, ra kavSir-

Si iyo janyaraSvili am konkretul

saqmesTan da zogadad, biznesTan,

radgan is iyo Zalovani

struqturis warmomadgeneli.

Cven am SemTxvevaSi absoluturad

gulwrfelad gvindoda

premier-ministrisTvis

gveTxova, rom saxelmwifos

aRmoeCina CvenTvis mxardaWera

da ara, viRacis „kriSa” gveTxova.

Tumca iseTi mocemuloba

miviReT, rom premier-ministrma

pirdapir „kriSasTan” gadagvamisamarTa,

rac maSin CemTvis

Zalian gasakviri iyo. Semdeg

Camovida janyaraSvili, Cems

amerikel partniorebs pirdapir

daukavSirda da Zalian didi

ukmayofileba gamoTqva, Tu

ratom gaaformes CemTan xelSekruleba?!

maqedan daiwyo

Cemi problemebi.

_ ra statusiT ukavSirde-

boda, premieris saxeliT?

_ savaraudod, ki. konkretulad,

amaze detaluri saubari

ar mqonia amerikelebTan.

CemTan movidnen, Ramis saaTebi

iyo, saqarTvelodan mifrinavda.

gafrenis win mnaxa da

miTxra, rom mas pirdapir daureka

janyaraSvilma da Zalian

didi ukmayofileba gamoTqva,

rom CemTan gaaformes xelSekruleba.

_ da vin movida, SegiZliaT

davazustoT?

_ verlod lozinski, „jorjian

manganezis” maSindeli generaluri

direqtori... Semdeg

aRmoCnda, rom am kaxelebis

jgufma gamomigzavna pirovneba

(samwuxarod, mis saxels ver

davasaxeleb, Cemi ojaxis axlobelia),

damikavSirdnen da pirdapir

miTxres, _ ki, biZina

ivaniSvilTan avida Tamaz TamazaSvili

da man daarwmuna ivaniSvili,

rom Seni am biznesSi

yofna ar SeiZleba, radgan mixeil

saakaSvilis Zalian axlobeli

xaro da aqedan gamomdinare,

yvelas _ premier-ministrsa

da biZina ivaniSvilsac gulwrfelad

sjera, rom es maseao.

Tumca TviTon miTxres,

rom ician, am saqmesTan da am

biznesTan mixeil saakaSvili

arafer kavSirSi ar aris, magram,

aba, ra gegona, TamazaSvils

pirdapir cxvirwin aacale es

xelSekruleba da SegrCebodao?!

_ daaxloebiT ase miTxres.

_ ratom iyo dasaxelebuli

mixeil saakaSvili? warsulSi

icnobdiT, raime Sexeba gqon-

daT da amitom fiqrobdnen,

rom SesaZlebelia, am biznes-

Sic iyo mixeil saakaSvili?

_ ki, „nacmoZraobis” damfuZnebeli

viyavi, sakrebulos

wevri viyavi „nacmoZraobidan”

da axlo urTierToba mqonda

mixeil saakaSvilTan, Tumca arasdros,

aranairi kavSiri Cems

saqmianobas mixeil saakaSvilTan

ar hqonia. ra Tqma unda, arc

vin monawileobda

vaxtang goZiaSvilis

biznesis warTmevis

saqmeSi?

am biznesTan aranairi kavSiri

ar hqonia. maT miTxres, rom icodnen,

didi xani ar mqonia ur-

TierToba saakaSvilTan, Tumca

maT es awyobdaT da ase gaakeTes.

Semdegi raRac miTxres,

rom roca biZina ukve daarwmuna

TamazaSvilma amaSi, axla

garkveuli periodi dasWirdeba

Sens reabilitaciaso. mTxoves,

rom am amerikelebTan dagvilageo

da amis Semdeg miTxres,

rom raRac periodi dasWirdeba

reabilitacias da gagikeTebTo,

razedac Cemgan

Zalian mwvave reagireba miiRes

da me ar wavedi am raRacebze,

aseTi donis urTierTobebze.

_ vaxo, davazustoT, ras ni-

Snavda frazebi, _ TamazaSvils

cxvirwin aacale xelSekrule-

bao? anu TamazaSvils undoda,

WiaTuraSi hqonoda es biznesi?

_ diax, zustad ase iyo da

axlave gavSli Temas: imis mere,

rac me CamomaSores, am yvelafris

gamxmovanebeli iyo gaxaria.

biZina ivaniSvilis gadawyvetilebis

Semdeg movida gaxaria

da miTxra, rom am biznesidan

unda wavsuliyavi. iq Seiyvanes

kompania, romelsac xelmZRvanelobda

jani mixailovi,

romelic moskovSi moRvawe biznesmen

Tamaz somxiSvilis warmomadgeneli

iyo. es ukanaskneli

ivaniSvilTan daaxloebuli

piria. is warmoadgenda pirdapir

uCa mamacaSvils da maT

jgufs. meore kompania, romelic

maT Seiyvanes, Zmebi Cxenkelebi

arian, romelic, albaT, sazogadoebisTvis

cnobilia. amaTi

kompania Seiyvanes, aq pirdapir

iyo Cadebuli am kaxelebis

jgufis interesi, Sesabamisad,

maT hqondaT interesi, am

biznesSi Sesuliyvnen da Seiyvanes

kidec Tavisi kompania, Tumca

mere ramdenime Tvis Semdeg

gamovidnen da ukve aRar vici,

maT Soris ra moxda, radgan ar

var am saqmeSi kompetenturi.

_ rom davazustoT: mas Semdeg,

rac CamogaSores am biz-

ness, igi gaiyo orma frTam, _

erTi mxriv, uCa mamacaSvilma

da meore mxriv, RaribaSvilma

da misma gundma.

_ diax, iq mesame kompaniac

iyo, Tumca isini dRes iq aRar

arian da politikurad maTTan

kavSirSi ar aris. Tavidan sul

sami kompania Sevida, Tumca es

ori kompania iyo: erTi kompania

uCa mamacaSvilis interesebs

warmoadgenda da meore

iyo kaxelebis kompania, romelic

Zmebi Cxenkelebis saxiT iyo

warmodgenili.

_ Tumca garkveuli periodis

Semdeg mxolod erTi dar-

Ca, xom?

_ diax, axla aris erTi. visac

am TematikasTan hqonia Sexeba,

yvelam kargad icis, rom

dRes aris erTi kompania. ra

pretenziac hqondaT CemTan,

rom monopoliis aReba mindoda,

zustad ise funqcionirebs

dRes is kompania da mis saTaveSi

dgas yvelasTvis cnobili

„riJa” _ giorgi kapanaZe, romelic

mediamflobeli gaxda

da axal holdings akeTebs „rusTavi-

2-Tan”. savaraudod, am

biznesidan wamosuli fuliT

dafinansdeba es holdingi. SemiZlia,

Tamamad ganvacxado, mis

ukan pirdapir biZina ivaniSvili

dgas...

_ Tqven wasuli xarT qvey-

nidan da amerikis SeerTebul

StatebSi imyofebiT. ras

apirebT

samarTlebrivad,

rogor gegmavT, es brZola

gaSaloT da gadaitanoT ukve

sagareo frontze?

_ Cvens uaxloes gegmebSi

aris is, rom aq gvqonda molaparakeba

bevr uflebdamcvel

organizaciasTan, gvaqvs intensiuri

molaparakebebi da Sexvedrebi,

informacias vawvdiT,

Tu ra moxda CemTan dakavSirebiT,

rogor ukanonod da usamarTlod

gamomagdes da gamomaZeves

Cemive Seqmnili biznesidan,

aseve vapirebT saqarTvelos

megobar senatorebTan

Sexvedras. gvinda, maTac mivawodoT

sruli informacia imasTan

dakavSirebiT, Tu ra moxda

Cems kompaniasTan da zogadad

Cemi qeisis irgvliv, maqsimalurad

movaxdinoT informireba

Cveni partniori saxelmwifosi

da ra Tqma unda, araerTxel

miTqvams da gavimeoreb,

rom Cemi mizania, sabraldebo

skamze dasxdes yvela, vinc monawileobda

Cem winaaRmdeg am

ganxorcielebul terorSi. eseni

arian piradad biZina ivaniSvili,

dRevandeli premier-ministri

irakli RaribaSvili da

4 N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.


TamazaSvili, tripolski

aseve misi simamri. maT uSualod

miiRes, ratomRac, gadawyvetileba,

rom ar mqonoda ufleba,

vyofiliyavi aseTi kompaniis

mflobeli da gadawyvites,

am bizness CamoveSorebineT.

_ janyaraSvili sxva forma-

tiT xom ar gamoCenila Tqven

axlomaxlo, Tu roca biznesi

waiRes, misi interesi sab-

olood gaqra?

_ biznesi rom waiRes, imis

Semdeg aRar gamoCenilan.

_ mainc CagekiTxebiT: vin

iyo is piri, visi piriTac Se-

mogiTvalaT janyaraSvilma?

_ is absoluturad neitraluri

adamiania, aranairi kavSiri

ar aqvs politikasTan da

mere aranairi reagireba prokuraturas

ar mouxdenia, ase

vTqvaT, mxare ar arsebobs. 2015

wlis ivnisSi aRiZra saqme, amdeni

weli gavida da mxare ar

aris cnobili saqmeSi, rom ar

gvqondes wvdoma saqmis masalebTan.

ra Tqma unda, Cemi azriT,

es iyo maSindeli premier-ministris

winaaRmdeg ganxorcielebuli,

rom ivaniSvils Taroze

hqonoda Semodebuli saqme

mis winaaRmdeg da ara imitom,

rom raRac simarTles eZebdnen.

ar SeiZleba, amdeni weli

midiodes gamoZieba da ver

daedginaT elementaruli rame.

_ anu gamoZieba dasrulebu-

li ar aris, ubralod, daiwyo

miewvdina, Tundac ivaniSvil-

isTvis, Tu rogori ukanonoba

moxda misi saxeliT da misi

garemocvis mier?

_ bolos tripolskisTan

Cemi Sexvedra Sedga Cems saxl-

Tan mdebare kafeSi, igi movida

da ubralod momibodiSa, _ es

biZina ivaniSvilis gadawyvetilebaa

da ra vqna, me verafers

gavxdebio. mas Semdeg erTmaneTs

ar SevxvedrivarT. Canda,

rom imdenad didi iyo interesi

da imdenad mtkice gadawyvetileba

miiRes, rac imaSi Canda,

rom TviTon gaxaria movida

da gamixmovana eg gadawyvetileba.

praqtikulad, pirdapir

miTxra, rom es gadawyvetileba

muxliT waviRebT strasburgSi.

aseve vapirebT intensiurad vimuSaoT,

maqsimalurad SevewinaaRmdegod

am ukanonobas. ar

movisveneb manam, sanam simar-

Tles ar vipovi, radgan kidev

erTxel minda vTqva, rom rac

Cem winaaRmdeg ganxorcielda,

absoluturi usamarTloba iyo,

arafris CarCoSi rom ar jdeba:

arc saxelmwifoebriobis,

arc adamianobis, arc kacobis,

piriqiT, es aris arakacuri,

araadamianuri, arakanonieri

gadawyvetileba, romelic miiRes

mxolod imitom, rom ase

moundaT da valdebuli var,

Tundac Cveni momavali Taobebis

winaSe, rom vibrZolo da

anobaSi Careva da aseTi gadawyvetilebis

miReba CemTvis iyo

absoluturad miuRebeli. arc

erTi dokumenti da arc erTi

werili ar momsvlia, ris safuZvelze

da ratom? ubralod,

Tqves, Cvens xelSia axla Zalaufleba

da ar gvinda, Sen

iyoo! amiT morCa. daaxloebiT

aseTi tipis urTierToba iyo.

amitom me minda, bolomde miviyvano

es saqme, erTxel da samudamod

damTavrdes xelisuflebebis

aseTi uxeSi Carevebi

kerZo biznessa da kerZo saqmianobaSi.

me var iseT qveyanaSi,

sadac biznesi Zalian Zlieria

da aqeT karnaxobs xelisuflebas

wesebs. swored biznesia is,

amjerad Tavs Sevikaveb misi dasaxelebisgan.

Tumca roca amaze

damisves kiTxvebi sagamoZiebo

struqturaSi, maSin saubari

mqonda, magram ar minda, far-

To msjelobis sagnad vaqcio,

radgan mas aranairi interesi

ar gaaCnda. ubralod, mominaxes

ojaxis axlobeli da ase movidnen

Cemamde.

_ gamoZieba ra etapzea? vici,

erTxel xarT gamokiTxu-

li.

_ diax, prokuraturaSi erTxel

var gamokiTxuli Cemi sajaro

gamoCenis Semdeg da mas

da saqme Semoido sadRac pro-

kuroris romeliRac Taroze.

_ uamravi adamiani daikiTxa,

maT Soris, mec, mimatanines

masalebi, telefonidan amonawerebi,

aseve satelevizio siu-

Jetebi, romelic dailuqa Cem

Tvalwin, amoiRes da amis Semdeg

araferi, aranairi reagireba.

vimeoreb: dRemde mxarec ar

aris cnobili, rom maqsimalurad

daxuruli iyos es gamoZieba

da Cven ar gvqondes wvdoma

masalebze.

_ tripolskis xom ar gasCe-

nia survili, Careuliyo da xma

zeviT miiRes, Sen am sqemaSi ar

unda iyoo. Tavidan bolomde

mimaniSna gaxariam, rom es iyo

biZina ivaniSvilisa da premierministris

doneze, ase vTqvaT,

umaRlesi pirebis doneze. rac,

ra Tqma unda, tripolskis

saubarSic Canda.

_ gasagebia, radgan samive

instanciis sasamarTlo waageT

qveyanaSi, rac ase ar xdeba, Tu

politikuri neba ar arsebobs.

axla apirebT saerTaSoriso

sasamarTlos mimarToT?

_ amaze muSaoben iuristebi

da am saqmes diskriminaciis

saqme bolomde miviyvano, raTa

amis Semdeg verc erTma xelisuflebam

ver gabedos ase

ukanonod biznesSi xelebis fa-

Turi. bolos, isic minda giTxraT,

rom Semaxvedres jani mixailos,

somxiSvilis warmomadgenels.

man miTxra, ase vTqvaT,

xelisuflebis mesiji, _ Zalian

niWieri kaci xar da iqneb, gvemegobrao.

ubralod, am bizness

Caexseni da sxva TemebSi Sennairi

niWieri xalxi gvWirdebao.

amaze Zalian mtkice uari miiRes,

radgan kidev erTxel vambob:

aseTi formiT kerZo saqmi-

rac qmnis qveynisTvis materialur

dovlaTs da rac aZlierebs

qveynis ekonomikas. ubralod,

ar SeiZleba saxelmwifos

hqondes aseTi damokidebuleba

da bizness uyurebodes, rogorc

Tavisi jibis bizness, radgan

is xelisuflebaSia. aseTi

damokidebuleba aqvs dRes biZina

ivaniSvils, premier-ministr

RaribaSvilsa da misi ojaxis

wevrebs, saqarTveloSi yvelas,

rac Zalian samwuxaroa. mTelma

sazogadoebam erTad unda

ibrZolos amis winaaRmdeg, rom

es aRarasodes ganmeordes.

sicocxlisTvis SeuTavsebeli mdgomareobidan

_ srul gamojanmrTelebamde

giorgi lomjarias arasdros daaviwydeba dRe,

rodesac Zlieri tkivili da marcxena TvalSi mxedvelobis

dakargva igrZno. misTvis amis gaxseneba martivi

arc dRes aris imis miuxedavad, rom 59 wlis mamakaci

erT-erTi yvelaze iRbliani pacienti aRmoCn-

da.

`marcxena SigniTa saZile arteriis nawilobriv

Trombirebuli anevrizma _ es gaxldaT Cemi diagnozi.

eqimebma ganmimartes, rom sakmaod mZime mdgomareoba

mqonda, Tumca CemTvis arc erTi wamiT ar mouciaT

ufleba, sicocxlisTvis brZolis unari damekarga", _

ixsenebs 59 wlis pacienti.

samsaxuridan saxlSi dabrunebulma wamierad igrZno,

rogor kargavda mxedvelobas marcxena TvalSi. ojaxis

wevrebma ozurgeTis klinikaSi miiyvanes, saidanac pacienti

TbilisSi, kavkasiis medicinis centrSi saswrafod

gagzavnes.

"SeiZleba iTqvas, rom es diagnozi sicocxlisTvis

SeuTavsebel mdgomareobas ganekuTvneba, vinaidan

anevrizmiT gamowveul sisxlCaqcevas, rogorc wesi,

ufro mZime formebSi gameoreba axasiaTebs", _ ganmartavs

neiroqirurgi da medicinis doqtori, lado

wiqariSvili.

anevrizma mxedvelobis nervebs awveboda da mxedvelobis

daqveiTebas iwvevda, ris gamoc operacia kombinirebuli

meTodiT Catarda. aucilebeli gaxda midgoma

qala fuZeze da vizualizacia saZile arteriis

kiserze manipulaciis usafrTxoebis mizniT. operacia

warmatebiT Catarda. kargad Caiara postoperaciulma

periodmac.

pacienti 10 dReSi binaze gaewera da cxovrebis Cveul

ritms daubrunda.

N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

5


`xalxma opoziciis mimarT

opoziciasa da xelisuflebas

nene injgia

Soris SeTanxmeba ver Sedga. evr-

591 71 39 98

opuli sabWos prezident Sarl

miSelis warmomadgenel kristian

danielsonis mediaciiT gamarTuli Sexvedrebis seria konkre-

tuli Sedegis gareSe dasrulda.

19 marts danielsoni briuselSi

dabrunda.

10-saaTiani molaparakebebis

Semdeg danielsonma ganacxada,

rom sabolood pasuxismgebloba

politikuri krizisis mosagvareblad

qarTul politikur

aqtorebs ekisrebaT.

„garkveuli aspeqtiT ramdenime

mniSvnelovani progresi

ganxorcielda prezident miSelis

6-punqtiani gegmaSi, es misasalmebeli

da Seucvleli gzaa

krizisidan gamosasvlelad. rac

Seexeba sxva sakiTxebs, aq naklebi

progresi iyo. me xval briuselSi

davbrundebi da angariSs

warvadgen prezident miSelTan.

sabolood, pasuxismgebloba

politikuri krizisis mosagvareblad

qarTul politikur

aqtorebs eniWebaT, es mniSvnelovania

qveynis demokratiuli

konsolidaciisa da misi

evropuli miswrafebebisTvis”,

_ ganacxada danielsonma.

misive TqmiT, politikuri

krizisis dasruleba saqarTvelos

liderebisTvis niSnavda,

rom maT SeZlebodaT fokusireba,

koncentracia da yuradRebis

gamaxvileba koronavirusis

pandemiasa da mTel socialurekonomikur

Sedegebze. garda

amisa, rogorc danielsonma

aRniSna, krizisis dasruleba

niSnavda winsvlas evrokavSiris

dRis wesrigiT da saqarTvelos

usafrTxoebis interesebis

dacvas regionSi.

saqarTveloSi gamarTuli

molaparakebebis paralelurad

briuselSi premier-ministris

viziti mimdinareobda.

briuselSi, evrokavSiris sagareo

politikisa da usafrTxoebis

umaRlesi komisris Jozef

borelis pirdapir gzavnils,

rom saqarTveloSi Tavisufali

arCevnebi Catarda, opoziciis

mxridan myisierad kritika mohyva.

metic: opoziciurma speqtrma

Jozef boreli euTos daskvnis

araswor interpretacia-

Sic daadanaSaula.

xelisuflebis oponentebSi

gansxvavebuli pozicia hqonda

„girCs“, romelmac borelis

gancxadeba gzavnilad miiRo da

aRniSna, rom opozicias amiT

arCevnebis gayalbebasTan dakav-

SirebiT argumentebi amoewura.

raze mianiSnebs borelis gancxadeba?

iyo Tu ara briusel-

Si premieris viziti opoziciisTvis

verdiqti? ra samoqmedo

areali rCeba opoziciur

speqtrs?

aRniSnuli Temebis Sesaxeb

„qronika+~ politolog gia

xuxaSvils esaubra:

_ batono gia, evropuli sabWos

prezidentis piradi warmomadgenlis,

kristian daniel-

sonis, Zalisxmevis miuxedavad,

„qarTul ocnebasa” da opozicias

Soris SeTanxmeba ver Sedga.

19 marts danielsoni saqarTvelodan

gaemgzavra. gasagebia,

rom am Sedegs saxelmwifoebrivi

kuTxiT gamarjvebu-

li ver eyoleba, magram viwro

partiuli interesebis Tval-

sazrisiT mmarTvelma gundma

gaimarjva?

_ Tu Cven taqtikur gamarjvebas

vgulisxmobT, xelebis

gadagrexis principiT vin aris

win, bunebrivia, es xelisuflebaa.

mis xelT iyo nebismieri

SeTanxmebis legalizeba da man

amaze xeli ar moawera. Sesabamisad,

mas SeuZlia, rom formalurad

am brZolaSi gamarjveba

gamoacxados, radgan inarCunebs

xelisuflebas, aseve riggareSe

arCevnebi ar tardeba da,

TiTqos, formaluri gagebiT

win aris. Tumca Cven unda gvesmodes,

rom roca politikuri

krizisia da omi mZvinvarebs, es

omi bevri brZolisgan Sedgeba.

aqedan gamomdinare, taqtikuri

gamarjveba, saboloo jamSi,

SeiZleba omSi damarcxebad gaformdes.

Cveni xelisuflebis

erT-erTi mTavari problema es

aris, rom is yovelTvis gadagorebis

principiT arsebobs. maT

grZelvadiani gaTvlebi ar

aqvT, mxolod moklevadiani,

taqtikuri svlebiT cdiloben,

rom mudmivad iyon xelisuflebaSi.

rac Seexeba imas, rom xelisuflebam

isargebla garkveuli

calkeuli gamonaTqvamebiT

briuselSi da am talRaze

Seecada gamagrebas, esec Zalian

moklevadiani xedvaa, radgan

jer ar viciT, saboloo jamSi,

ra ganwyobebi Camoyalibdeba.

danielsoni Cava da angariSs

waradgens.

_ Tqven aRniSneT briusel-

Si gakeTebul gancxadebebze.

evrokavSiris sagareo politikisa

da usafrTxoebis umaRlesma

komisarma Jozef borel-

ma gaakeTa pirdapiri gzavnili,

rom saqarTveloSi Tavisufali

arCevnebi Catarda, riT Sei-

Zleba aixsnas misi es gancxade-

ba?

_ me sruliad ar gamovricxav,

rom borelis gamonaTqvamebi

briuselis Siga, mefis karis

TamaSebis nawili iyo. mogexsenebaT,

rom borels mihyavs

sagareo urTierTobebis mimarTuleba,

is CamoSorebuli iyo

saqarTvelos Temis gadawyvetisgan.

miT umetes, im fonze,

roca ruseTSi misi viziti se-

gia xuxaSvili:

àm tipis

xelisuflebam

kidev oTxi weli

rom marTos

qveyana, ubralod,

warmoudgenelia~

riozuli kritikis qarcecxlSi

gatarda da igi, garkveulwilad,

Casafrebuli iyo Sarl

miSelis mimarT. rbilad rom

vTqvaT, boreli, rogorc politikosi,

ar iyo dainteresebuli,

rom miSelis misia warmatebuli

yofiliyo. Sesabamisad, am molaparakebebis

CaSlaze iTamaSa.

aseT versias aqvs arsebobis

`mogexsenebaT, rom borels mihyavs sagareo

urTierTobebis mimarTuleba, is

CamoSorebuli iyo saqarTvelos Temis

gadawyvetisgan. miT umetes, im fonze, roca

ruseTSi misi viziti seriozuli kritikis

qarcecxlSi gatarda da igi, garkveulwilad,

Casafrebuli iyo Sarl miSelis mimarT.

rbilad rom vTqvaT, boreli, rogorc

politikosi, ar iyo dainteresebuli, rom

miSelis misia warmatebuli yofiliyo.

Sesabamisad, am molaparakebebis CaSlaze

iTamaSa. aseT versias aqvs arsebobis

safuZveli. xelisuflebas ar unda hqondes

imis iluzia, rom dasavleTTan yvelaferi

`moayomara~. es procesi ar dasrulebula da

SeiZleba, xelisuflebas Zalian arasasiamovno

siurprizebi elodebodes. Tumca es ar aris

xelisuflebis erTaderTi problema, mas aqvs

problemebi qveynis SigniT, ara mxolod

politikuri krizisis saxiT~

safuZveli. xelisuflebas ar

unda hqondes imis iluzia, rom

dasavleTTan yvelaferi „moayomara”.

es procesi ar dasrulebula

da SeiZleba, xelisuflebas

Zalian arasasiamovno siurprizebi

elodebodes. Tumca es

ar aris xelisuflebis erTaderTi

problema, mas aqvs problemebi

qveynis SigniT, ara mxolod

politikuri krizisis

saxiT. arc erTi mimarTulebiT

ar aqvs pozitiuri dRis wesrigi,

metic: sasicocxlod mniSvnelovani

vaqcinaciis procesi,

faqtobrivad, Caagdes Tavisi

briyvuli menejmentiT, eqimebic

ki ar icrebian. am dros es procesi

saxelmwifoebrivad Zalian

mniSvelovania. garda amisa, socialuri

da ekonomikuri problemebi

aqvT. es yvelaferi ki,

erT mSvenier dRes, zvaviviT

wamova. dRes opozicia romc

gaCerdes, es problemebi mainc

rCeba, igive „namaxvanma” SeiZleba

gadaiyolos es xelisufleba.

me ar mgonia, rom xelisuflebas

dRes gamarjvebis zeimis

fufuneba hqondes. romc

gaimarjvos, es yvela SemTxveva-

Si pirosis gamarjveba iqneba.

Tqven amiT daiwyeT da am TamaSSi

gamarjvebuli ar SeiZleba

arsebobdes. xelisuflebas damarcxebis

Sansi Zalian didi

aqvs, radgan ver vxedav gzas,

rogor unda gadawyviton esa

Tu is problema.

_ opozicias hqonda molodini,

rom briuselidan pirdapir

vadamdel arCevnebs daniSnavdnen,

_ es molodini Seu-

qmnes sakuTar eleqtoratsac.

mudmivad qmnian raRac tipis

molodinebs da bolos im-

edgacruebulebi rCebian. aix-

sneba Tu ara politikuri

logikiT maTi es qmedeba?

_ es aris Cveni politikuri

elitis mudmivi problema. me

saqarTvelos uaxles istorias

erT winadadebaSi ganvsazRvrav

xolme, es aris: tylapodan ty-

6 N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.


ndoba dakarga~

lapomde istoria. ar vici, amas

infantilizmi davarqva Tu araprofesionalizmi.

erTi mxare

uSvebs Secdomas, meore ki amas

iformebs sakuTar gamarjvebad.

sixaruliT iwyebs xtunvas da

TviTon xteba tylapoSi, es gaexardeba

im mxares, romelic

cota xnis win iyo igive mdgomareobaSi,

iwyebs xtunvas da axla

Tavad vardeba tylapoSi.

aseTi Secdoma, vfiqrob, amjeradac

dauSva opoziciam. mas imedi

hqonda, rom briuseli maT

mxareze iTamaSebda, xelebs

gadaugrexda xelisuflebas da,

faqtobrivad, maTi gasakeTebeli

saqme briuselSi sxvebis xeliT

gakeTdeboda. es, ra Tqma

unda, iyo iluzia. vfiqrob, opozicias

meti unda emuSava. gasagebia,

rom arCevnebis gayalbebis

Temas bolomde ver gamoiZiebdnen,

magram ufro aqtiurad

unda yofiliyvnen CarTuli

kontrargumentebis moZiebasa

da garkveuli sabraldebo

daskvnis winaswari formis misacemad.

maT amis nacvlad rwmenis

sakiTxad aqcies es yvelaferi.

rodesac borelma euTo/

odiris daskvna dado, opozicias

arc erTi kontrargumenti,

Tundac konkretuli qeisebis

saxiT, ar warmoudgenia.

opoziciis mxridan aseTi msubuqi,

zerele damokidebuleba da

imis imedi, rom maT sityvaze

daujerebdnen, Secdoma iyo. garda

amisa, Secdoma iyo is, rom

_ paralelur reJimSi briusels

ar daanaxes xalxis mxardaWera.

_ ar daanaxes Tu ver daanax-

es?

_ vfiqrob, rom daezaraT da

araferi gaakeTes amisTvis. gasagebia,

rom fonad am yvelafers

ar unda gahyoloda piketireba

da ZiZgilaoba, magram

mSvidobiani manifestaciiebiT

Tbilissa Tu briuselSi maT

unda daenaxvebinaT, rom es politikuri

elitis fexebis bakuni

da kaprizebi ki ar aris, aramed

es aris xalxis moTxovna,

ìgive xelisuflebas Tu vinmem xma misca,

misca sul sam adamians: biZina ivaniSvils,

giorgi gaxariasa da kaxi kalaZes. aqedan ori

axla politikaSi aRar aris, mesame ki

`qarTuli ocnebidan~ distancirebulia. Tqven

rogor ggoniaT, TviTon `qarTuli ocnebis~

amomrCevels kobaxiZisa da RaribaSvilis

qveyanaSi cxovreba unda?!~

romlis delegirebasac isini

sinamdvileSi axdenen. amis Cvenebis

nacvlad saerTod Sewyvites

yvelaferi da Tqves, rom

amis dro ar aris. briuselisTvis

sainteresoa is opozicia,

romelsac xalxSi aqvs mxardaWera

da amis demonstrirebas

axdens. Tu xalxi saxlebSi zis

da mxolod 10-20 kaci abakunebs

fexebs, es ar iTvleba mniSvnelovan

faqtorad. Sesabamisad,

sistemuri muSaoba iyo saWiro

da ara im iluziis Seqmna, rom

axla Caiketebian darbazSi da

TavianTi mWevrmetyvelebiT

fons gavlen. es iyo Secdoma.

_ am yvelafris gaTval-

iswinebiT, ra Sansebi rCeba ri-

ggareSe arCevnebis daniSvnis

kuTxiT?

_ vfiqrob, rom TiTqmis

100%-iani Sansia amis. riggareSe

arCevnebi imitom ki ar aris gardauvali,

rom opozicia moereva

xelisuflebas, aramed amis

obieqturi winapirobebia. xelisuflebas

Zalian bevri mimarTulebiT

aqvs problemebi,

opozicia saerTod rom gaiTi-

Sos am procesidan, es xelisufleba

4 wlis ganmavlobaSi ver

marTavs, radgan ar aqvs legitimacia.

vaqcinaciis araTu eqimebs,

aramed xalxsac aRar sjera.

igive xelisuflebas Tu vinmem

òpozicia mudmivad saubrobs imaze, rom

xelisufleba cudia, ki batono, magram Sen,

rom kargi xar, es Tu ar miTxari, CemTvis,

rogorc am qveynis moqalaqisTvis, ra azri

aqvs cvlilebas?~

xma misca, misca sul sam adamians:

biZina ivaniSvils, giorgi

gaxariasa da kaxi kalaZes. aqedan

ori axla politikaSi aRar

aris, mesame ki „qarTuli ocnebidan”

distancirebulia. Tqven

rogor ggoniaT, TviTon „qarTuli

ocnebis” amomrCevels kobaxiZisa

da RaribaSvilis qveyanaSi

cxovreba unda?! _ ar unda

da aqedan gamomdinare, am tipis

xelisuflebam rom oTxi weli

marTos qveyana, ubralod, warmoudgenelia,

ndoba maT mimarT

nulovania, gamowvevebi ki maqsimaluria,

maT Soris, socialuri,

ekonomikuri, pandemia da

bevri sxva konkretuli Temebi.

„namaxvanis” Tema ase martivad

ar dasruldeba, dRes iseTi vi-

Tarebaa, SesaZloa, swored am

Temam gadawyvitos xelisuflebis

bedi, msgavsi Temebi kidev

ramdeni iqneba, Cven es ar viciT.

faqtia, rom dRes xelisufleba

zis navSi, romelsac bevri

xvreli aqvs da mas mxolod

erTi instrumenti gaaCnia, rom

TiTebiT daiwyos dagmanva. rac

ar unda gmanos TiTebiT, navi

mainc CaiZireba. rogor unda

uzrunvelyos stabiluroba

aralegitimurma xelisuflebam,

es absoluturad gaugebaria.

_ gasagebia is nawili, rom

xelisufleba, romlis mTavari

Semadgenlebi kobaxiZe da

RaribaSvilia, oTxi weli ver

SeZlebs Zalauflebis Senar-

Cunebas. magram opozicia mx-

olod amis imedad ver iqneba.

dRevandel situaciaSi ra

samoqmedo areali rCebaT?

_ samwuxarod, Cven am nawil-

Si velosipeds ver movigonebT.

samoqmedo arealad opozicias

rCeba xelisuflebis misamar-

TiT mudmivi presingi, rac, samwuxarod,

cudia, es ryevebi am

rTul geopolitikur viTarebaSi,

saxifaToa, Tan mogexsenebaT,

ra samyaroSi vcxovrobT.

globaluri dapirispirebis

gradusi Zalian gazrdilia.

Cven erT-erT epicentrSi gviwevs

yofna. amitom ryevebi negatiuria.

opoziciam unda gaagr-

Zelos muSaoba briuselTan da

vaSingtonTan, rom realur fasamde

mivides saqme, ara mxolod

ritorikulad, aramed xelisuflebis

mxridan konkretuli

fasis gadaxdamde. amavdroulad,

qveynis SigniTac unda ecados,

rom maqsimaluri mxardaWera

moipovos. saboloo jamSi,

am qveynis beds, pirvel rigSi,

mosaxleoba wyvets. ase rom,

opoziciam yvela frontze unda

imuSaos, yvela instrumentiT,

ra Tqma unda, kanonisa da instituciis

farglebSi.

_ 2020 wlis saparlamento

arCevnebidan 5 Tve gavida da

faqtia, rom opoziciurma

speqtrma verc xalxis quCaSi

gamoyvana da verc dasavleTis

darwmuneba moaxerxa imaSi, rom

arCevnebi gayalbda. aqedan ga-

momdinare, ramdenad aqvs

opozicias amis resursi, rom

saTanadod gamoiyeneben yvela

instruments? garda amisa, kritikulad

da opoziciurad gan-

wyobili sazogadoebis nawili,

SeiZleba iTqvas, rom daiRala.

_ opoziciam unda moZebnos

Temebi. dRes arCevnebis gayalbebis

Tema ar aris dominanturi

adamianebis ganwyobaSi. pirvel

rigSi, opoziciam unda gaacnobieros,

ras surs xalxs, ra stkiva,

Sesabamisad, amis kapitalizacia

unda moaxdinos. mudmivad

is ki ar unda iZaxos, rac

am xalxs SeiZleba naklebad ainteresebs.

igive namaxvanis Tema

Zalian SemaSfoTebeli simptomia

maTTvis, me am Temis Sinaars-

Si ar Sevdivar, magram rodesac

imarTeba masStaburi aqciebi da

xalxs aqvs xelisuflebis mimarT

sakmaod aqtiuri protesti,

magram igive xalxs aqvs, agre-

Tve, undobloba opoziciis mimarT,

es problemaa. unda gadon

es gzebi xalxTan. opoziciam

unda gaacnobieros, rom xalxs

maT mimarT ndoba dakarguli

aqvs. opozicias nu hgonia, rom

xalxi, romelsac miaCnia, rom

xelisufleba cudia, avtomaturad

ifiqrebs, rom opozicia

kargia. dRes, samwuxarod, mTvari

moTamaSe CvenTan aris nihilizmi

da skepticizmi, es aris

ara mxolod xelisuflebis,

aramed mTeli politikuri klasis

problema. opoziciam Tu

seriozulad da kritikulad ar

gadaafasa Tavisi realuri statusi

da ver moaxerxa xalxis

mxardaWeris mopoveba, maSin vi-

Rac mesame mova. xelisufleba

wava, rac avtomaturad ar niSnavs,

rom es opozicia mova, vi-

Rac mesame isargeblebs amiT.

amitom opoziciam unda gaiazros,

fundamenturad ra xarvezebi

aqvs da ra unda Secvalos.

seriozuli reorganizacia da

gadafaseba sWirdebaT sakuTari

moqmedebebis, strategiisac da

ideisac. ra idea aqvs dRes opozicias?

_ isini mxolod negatiuri

dRis wesrigiT arian mudmivad

da amtkiceben, rom xelisufleba

cudia. is problemebi

da pretenziebi, rac xalxs

aqvs xelisuflebasTan _ amas

ver uwyvets mmarTveli gundi.

amas rom opozicia ukeTesad gadauwyvets,

xalxs ar eubnebian.

opozicia mudmivad saubrobs

imaze, rom xelisufleba cudia,

ki batono, magram Sen, rom

kargi xar, es Tu ar miTxari,

CemTvis, rogorc am qveynis moqalaqisTvis,

ra azri aqvs cvlilebas?

erTi ubedurebidan

meoreSi gadavide? Sen, rom

opozicia xar, unda damarwmuno,

rom Cems problemas am xelisuflebaze

ukeTesad gadawyvet.

7


`wels biZina ivaniSvili

molaparakebebis kraxiT das-

Sorena marsagiSvili

rulebis Semdeg opozicia axal

599 92 16 22

samoqmedo gegmaze gadavida. am

gegmis Tanaxmad, opozicionerebi

saqarTvelos qalaqebsa da soflebs moivlian da 15 maiss Tbi-

lisSi, parlamentis win grandiozul saprotesto aqcias gam-

arTaven. am gegmam opoziciis momxreebs imedebi gaucrua. bev-

ri maTgani fiqrobs, rom 15 maisamde sakmaod Soria da aqcia

ufro adre unda gamarTuliyo. am mosazrebas ar iziarebs lei-

boristuli partiis lideri Salva naTelaSvili. misi TqmiT,

15 maiss Semajamebeli aqcia iqneba, manamde ki opozicia mTeli

qveynis masStabiT gamarTavs sxvadasxva RonisZiebas da xelisuflebaze

zewolas Seecdeba. naTelaSvilis varaudiT, xelisu-

flebaze zewola dasavleTidanac wamova. is darwmunebulia,

rom es weli ivaniSvilis politikaSi yofnis bolo welia.

599 92 16 22

Salva naTelaSvili:

ratom datova molaparakebebi

leiboristuli partiis liderma?

ras sTavazobda xelisu-

fleba opozicias parlamentSi

Sesvlis sanacvlod? Tanaxma iyo

Tu ara „qarTuli ocneba” vad-

amdeli arCevnebis daniSvnaze?

ratom ar SeiZleba ivaniSvilT-

an procentebze vaWroba? _ am

Temebis Sesaxeb „qronika+~-s

Salva naTelaSvili esaubreba:

_ batono Salva, opoziciam

axali samoqmedo gegma warmoad-

gina da gvacnoba, rom 15 maiss

xelisuflebis sawinaaRmdego

grandiozuli aqcia gaimarTeba.

15 maisi cota dagvianebuli xom

ar aris?

_ dagvianebuli ar aris, 15

maiss damagvirgvinebeli aqcia

gaimarTeba TbilisSi. manamde

iqneba seriozuli saSinao da sagareo

zewola ivaniSvilis re-

Jimze. opozicia yvelafers gavakeTebT,

rom es saSineli reJimi,

romelic saqarTvelos anadgurebs,

Camoingres.

_ Seswevs opozicias reJimis

Camongrevis Zala? irakli

kobaxiZem ganacxada, rom opozicia

quCas ki ara, Salvas fanCa-

tursac veRar avsebso. Tqveni

partiis ofisis ezoSi gamarTuli

opoziciuri Sexvedrebi „oc-

nebas” dRemde ver mounelebia.

_ rogor ver SevavsebT, amasac

vnaxavT. magaT urCevniaT, saku-

Tar Tavebs mixedon, kriminaluri

saqmianoba politikiT rom

Caanacvles. maT qveyana mZevlad

aiyvanes. aseTi saSineli Zala arc

erTi qveynis saTaveSi arasdros

yofila. mTlad warmoudgenelia,

rom aseTi Zala xelisuflebaSi

mesame vadiT darCenaze pretenzias

acxadebdes. maT am qveyanas

saSineli ubedureba daatexes,

rac istorias ar axsovs.

_ albaT damoukideblobis

aRdgenis periods gulisxmobT,

manamde am qveyanas mravali ube-

dureba aqvs gadatanili.

_ marto am periods ar

vgulisxmob. aseTi ubedureba am

qveyanas arasdros dastexia Tavs.

„qarTuli ocneba” da ivaniSvili

aris am qveynis udidesi sasjeli.

iyo aseTi rostom xani, warmoSobiT

bagrationi, is aq

iranelebma daniSnes, magram Tavs

mefedac ki ar miiCnevda, iranis

vasali iyo Cveulebrivi. Sinaganad

im donis araqarTveli gaxldaT,

rom daibara, roca movkvdebi,

yumSi damasaflaveTo. yumi

iranis islamuri centria. aseTi

iyo rostom xani, magram saqarTveloSi

isic ki raRacebs aSenebda.

uamravi xidi da cixesimagre

aaSena. albaT, arc is unda iyos

SemTxveviTi, rom „qarTulma ocnebam”

rostom xanis sasaxleSi

daido bina. misgan gansxvavebiT,

ivaniSvilma mTlianad gaaubedura

qveyana. ise wavida politikidan,

rom araferi auSenebia.

piriqiT, yvelaferi daangria da

miiTvisa. saydrisis afeTqebasa

da xeebis moTxraze aRarafers

vambob. saqarTvelo dRes mTlianad

okupirebulia. cxinvalidan

da afxazeTidan putinma Semogvi-

Roba. ivaniSvilma SigniT daiwyo

teritoriebis okupacia. sadac

ki madania miwaSi, yvela teritoria

SemoRoba. daayena oficialuri

dacva da iq aravis uSveben.

es arc rostom xans gaukeTebia

da arc _ Temur lengs.

_ Temur lengi rvajer Se-

mogvesia. imedia, es merve vadiT

ar mova. ise, 2030 weli cudad

ki aqvs amoCemebuli.

_ Temur lengi rvajer ki Semogvesia,

magram SemoiWreboda

da mere ukan brundeboda. es kidev

mecxre welia, Tavze azis am

qveyanas da aubedurebs. ise gaTavxedda,

rom misi Svilis gamo

ukve bavSvebs usworeben angariSs.

mxolod imitom ateroreben

maT, rom beras Seagines. Cemma

moderatorebma miTxres, rom xelisuflebis

dafinansebuli 1200

mekobrea dablokili Cems gverdebze.

me magaT ar vepasuxebi. es

adamianebi 9 welia, ubinZuresad

iginebian Cemi misamarTiT. agineben

sxva opozicionerebsac.

Cveni dedebi dedebi ar arian da

beras dedaa marto deda?

_ isev 15 maiss dagegmil aq-

cias davubrundeT: gigi ugula-

vam Tqva, imdeni xalxi unda gam-

oviyvanoT quCaSi, ramdeni Tmac

irakli kobaxiZes Tavze aqvso.

amdeni xalxi saqarTveloSi mgo-

ni, ar cxovrobs. SeZlebT opozicia

xalxis gamoyvanas? mo-

saxleoba xelisuflebiT Zalian

ukmayofiloa, magram quCaSi ga-

mosvlas mainc erideba.

_ axla ar gamodian, magram

SeiZleba, raRac iseTi momenti

dadges, rom xalxi zvaviviT wamovides

da „en“ raodenobiT adamiani

dadges quCaSi. qarTveli

xalxis fsiqikis amocnoba cota

`vis ra jandabad

unda òcnebis~

SemoTavazebuli

komitetis

Tavmjdomareoba?!~

Zneli saqmea. winaswar ver ityvi,

ris gasaprotesteblad gamovalT

gareT. 2003 wlis saparlamento

arCevnebis win ramdenime

saerTaSoriso organizaciam Caatara

saqarTveloSi gamokiTxva.

win dagvides daskvnebi, rom SevardnaZem

arCevnebi romc gaayalbos,

xalxs quCaSi gamosvlis

survili ar aqvso. am gamokiTxvebis

Tanaxmad, quCaSi protestis

gamosaxatavad gamosvlas mxolod

13% uWerda mxars. bolos

xom dainaxeT, rac moxda. Zalian

bevri adamiani gamovida gareT.

_ zRva xalxi arc „vardebis

revoluciis“ dros gamosula.

_ arc cota iyo. es aqciebi

uwyvet reJimSi ar mimdinareobda.

liderebi saqarTvelos regionebSic

wavidnen da xalxi Camoiyvanes

TbilisSi. amdeni xania,

politikaSi var da kargad Seviswavle

Cveni xalxis fsiqika. qar-

Tvelebi, ZiriTadad maSin gamodian

quCaSi, roca xedaven, rom

xelisufleba Signidan iSleba.

_ axla am mxriv ra xdeba? iSl-

eba „qarTuli ocneba” Signidan?

_ ra Tqma unda. amaze meti

daSla rad gindaT, premieri

gaeqcaT. momavalSi kidev iqneba

sxva procesebi. Cemi azriT, saer-

TaSoriso zewola da sanqciebi

daamTavrebs am xelisuflebas.

_ mxolod saerTaSoriso zewola

Sedegs ver gamoiRebs. Sig-

niTac saWiroa aqciebi.

_ Sida protesti, ra Tqma

unda, saWiroa. gareT unda gamovides

is, vinc bolo 9 wlis ganmavlobaSi

biZina ivaniSvils aZlevda

xmas. am xalxma Tavisi protestiT

unda gamoasworos is,

rac wlebis ganmavlobaSi miqara.

vinc am reJims ebrZvis, isini isedac

gamovlen. mniSvnelovani im

xalxis gamosvlaa, vinc es saSineli

xelisufleba gvaCuqa. mxolod

ase gamoisyidian isini

Cadenil codvas. „ocnebis” mxardaWera

codva da danaSaulia.

_ „ocnebis” mxardamWerebi

aqciaze rogor gamovlen? isini

s(s)ipebSi, aipebsa da sxva sabiu-

jeto organizaciebSi hyavT

dasaqmebuli.

_ yvela ar aris dasaqmebuli.

„qarTul ocnebas” im xalxmac

misca xma, visac 30-30 lari dauriges.

zogierTi SeaSines, zogsac

socialuri daxmareba mouxsnes.

es adamianebi dasaqmebuli

ar arian. maT Tavmoyvareobis

`nika melias ganTavisuflebamde

molaparakebebis magidasTan jdomas aranairi

azri ar hqonda, amitomac davtove

molaparakebebi~

deficiti ar unda hqondeT. mgonia,

rom isini Seuracxyofilad

grZnoben Tavs. s(s)ipebsa da

aipebSi dasaqmebulebs rac Seexeba,

isini arian paraziti fenis

warmomadgenlebi da quCaSi arasdros

gamovlen. maT mxolod kabineti

da geja ainteresebT, saidanac

Wamen. es is xalxia, romelic

sul xelisuflebasTan iqneba.

maTTvis mniSvneloba ar aqvs,

vin mova qveynis saTaveSi. roca

opozicia gaxdeba mmarTveli

Zala, isini Cven mogvadgebian.

saWiroa, aseTi adamianebis

reestri gakeTdes. maT saxelmwifo

Tanamdebobis dakaveba unda

aekrZaloT. es xalxi modis SevardnaZis

ki ara, patiaSvilisa da

gumbariZis droidan. amaTma amoWames

da gaaRatakes es qveyana.

aseTi saSineleba saqarTvelos-

Tvis arc russ gaukeTebia, arc

monRols da arc Turqs.

gasul wels mcxeTa-mTianeTis

maJoritar deputatad airCies

mxaris yofili gubernatori

Salva kereseliZe, romlis mamac

komunistebis dros duSeTis

raikomis mdivani iyo. am kacma

daaWerina Jurnalisti nazi Samanauri,

romelic fsiqiatriul-

Si gamoamwyvdies da iq wamebiT

mokles. dRes xelisuflebaSi an

patiaSvilis droindeli xalxia,

an maTi STamomavlebi. memkvidreobiT

gadascemen Tavis Svilebs

Tanamdebobebs. TiTqos marTla

maTi iyos es qveyana. biurokratia

amaT xelSia. amis daxmarebiT

daepatronen miwebs, samarSruto

xazebs, savaWro punqtebs, venaxebs.

aseT xalxze dgas yvela xelisufleba.

isini nebismier sibinZures

kadruloben.

aviRoT mcxeTis municipalitetis

sofeli muxrani. am sofelSi

cxovroben tatiSvilebi. isini

modian patiaSvilis droidan.

mravali welia, rac ateroreben

mTel sofels. muxranSi ramis gakeTeba

Tu ginda, tatiSvilebTan

unda mixvide saqmis Casawyobad.

TiTqos tatiSvilebi ar iyo sakmarisi,

maT daemata zeikiZis ojaxic.

8 N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.


politikurad dasruldeba~

_ policiel zeikiZeze

saubrobT?

_ diax, afxazeTSi omis gaCaReba

magis kiserzea. uamravi biWi

miwaSi Caawvina, Tavad kidev „kalbasis“

damzadebas mihyo xeli.

Tan uxarisxo da falsificirebul

produqcias amzadebs. amis

paralelurad, leqsebs uwers

biZina ivaniSvils. aseTi zeikiZeebi

da tatiSvilebi TiTqmis yvela

sofels hyavs. msgavsi tipis

adamianebi unda aRiricxos. cimbirSi

ar gavasaxlebT, magram saxelmwifo

Tanamdebobebis dakaveba

unda aekrZaloT. amaT rom gavaneitralebT,

mere iqneba Cvens

qveyanaSi demokratia da samarTliani

arCevnebi. iqneba sityvis

Tavisufleba. gaixarebs inteligentic,

glexic da muSac.

yvelas erTad gagvexardeba mzis

amosvla. aseTi xalxi Tu ar avlagmeT,

ivaniSvils gauSveben da

uaress dauWeren mxars.

gasuli saukunis 50-ian wleb-

Si amerikaSi SemoiRes profesiebis

akrZalvis kanoni. visac marqsistul-komunisturi

ideologiis

mimarT hqonda simpaTiebi,

mas ar SeeZlo konkretuli

Tanamdebobebis dakaveba.

_ ra Tanamdebobebis dakave-

ba ekrZalebodaT?

_ ver imuSavebdnen skolaSi

pedagogad; ver waikiTxavdnen

leqciebs umaRles saswavleblebSi;

ver iqnebodnen samarTaldamcvelebi,

sistemis TanamSromlebi;

verc im Tanamdebobaze

dainiSnebodnen, sadac samxedro

informaciaze eqnebodaT wvdoma.

am kanonis amoqmedebiT amerikam

komunisturi safrTxe aicila. im

periodSi amerikaSi sakmaod Zlieri

iyo komunisturi partia.

sabWoTa kavSiri mTeli msoflios

masStabiT did fuls xarjavda,

rom komunisturi moZraoba

gaeZlierebina. am safrTxesTan

gamklaveba amerikam mxolod kanoniT

moaxerxa. Cvenc unda mivi-

RoT msgavsi kanoni. aseT adamianebs

Tu ar avlagmavT, ganvi-

Tarebas ver veRirsebiT.

_ Tqven ase fiqrobT, magram

danarCeni opoziciac ase

fiqrobs am xalxze? es is kategoriaa,

romelic nebismier xe-

lisuflebas Seeteneba.

_ rom ar Seetenon, magitomac

unda gakeTdes sia. yvela xelisuflebam

unda icodes, rom am sia-

Si moxvedrili kategoriis gakareba

ar SeiZleba. maT saxelmwifo

Tanamdebobebze muSaobis

ufleba ar unda mivceT, Torem

weron leqsebi, daamuSavon miwa,

Seqmnan arasamTavroboebi, magram

saxelmwifo Tanamdebobebs isini

da maTi STamomavloba ar unda

gavakaroT. sxvanairad araferi

gamogviva. saqarTvelo maT xel-

Si verasdros gaxdeba normaluri

saxelmwifo. es iciT, rogori

kategoriis xalxia? xval putini

tankebiT rom Semovides,

TbilisSi pirvelebi daxvdebian

yvavilebiT, pur-mariliTa da

Coxa-axaluxiT.

àmdeni xania, politikaSi var da kargad Seviswavle Cveni xalxis fsiqika.

qarTvelebi, ZiriTadad maSin gamodian quCaSi, roca xedaven, rom

xelisufleba Signidan iSleba~

_ marTla pirvelebi Seegebebian.

amaSi erTi wamiTac ar me-

pareba eWvi.

_ 1921 wels aq kirovi da orjonikiZe

rom Semovidnen wiTel

armiasTan erTad, pirveli nodar

dumbaZis mama Seegeba da Semou-

ZRva maT. nodar dumbaZe didi

mwerali iyo da xalxma misi mamis

ambavi amitom daiviwya? aravin axsenebda

amas. magram rogor moiqca

didi nodaris Svili, romelic

axla parlamentSia gamoWimuli?

man nika meliasTvis deputatis

imunitetis moxsnas misca xma.

_ arada, es adamiani 2019 wlis

ivnisSi yvelaze metad apro-

testebda TbilisSi gavrilovis

Camosvlas da socialur qselSi

mwvave raRacebs werda.

_ maSin deputati ar iyo. rogorc

ki deputati gaxda da kolegis

daWeris sakiTxi dadga dRis

wesrigSi, masSi umal gaiRviZa genma.

_ xelisuflebisa da opoziciis

molaparakebebzec visaubroT.

erTi dRiT adre, san-

am molaparakebebi CaiSleboda,

Tqven protestis niSnad wamox-

vediT iqidan.

_ axla ise ar gamovides, rom

me dambraldes molaparakebebis

procesis CaSla. es procesi xelisuflebam

da piradad biZina

ivaniSvilma CaSala.

_ molaparakebebis CaSlas ar-

avin gabralebT. piriqiT, mosa-

woni iyo Tqveni gadawyvetileba.

_ nika melias ganTavisufle-

àm sisuleleze daTanxmeba rogor

SeiZleboda? Turme, vadamdel arCevnebs

daniSnavdnen im SemTxvevaSi, Tu

TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebze 40%-ze naklebs

aiRebdnen. gamoitanda ivaniSvili putinis

gamogzavnil miliardebs, kidev erTxel

moisyidida amomrCevels da aiRebda 49%-s.

amiT samudamod darCeboda xelisuflebaSi.

am SeTavazebaze wasvla qveynis kazinoSi

gaTamaSebas niSnavda. iseT verag adamianTan,

rogoric biZina ivaniSvilia, kazinos

principebiT TamaSi rogor SeiZleba? es misi

mindoria da nebismier SemTxvevaSi mogigebs~

bamde molaparakebebis magidas-

Tan jdomas aranairi azri ar

hqonda, amitomac davtove molaparakebebi.

_ ukeTesi xom ar iqneboda, es

nabiji ufro adre rom gada-

gedgaT?

_ ver getyviT. yvelafers,

rogorc amboben, Tavisi dro

aqvs. me roca saWirod miviCnie,

maSin davtove molaparakebebi.

molaparakebaze mosul xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebs da maT

zurgs ukan myof, buCqebSi mjdar

ivaniSvils unda gaego, rom

Cveni neba aris uryevi. mindoda,

rom es Cvens ucxoel megobrebsac

gaegoT. yvelas unda gaego,

rom opozicia „qarTuli ocnebis”

SemoTavazebebsa da satyuarebs

ar wamoegeba. amis gakeTeba

nebismier Cems kolegas SeeZlo.

bevri maTgani amas Cemze ukeT gaakeTebda,

magram ise moxda, rom

am etapze me gadavdgi es nabiji.

_ xelisuflebis SeTavazebe-

bi axseneT. ra SeTavazebebzea

saubari? aleko elisaSvili da

„girCebi“ acxadeben, rom TiTq-

os „qarTuli ocneba“ mzad iyo,

daTanxmeboda vadamdeli arCe-

vnebis daniSvnas. marTla iyo

amaze raime SeTavazeba?

_ ras laparakobT? ra vadamdel

arCevnebze daTanxmeba?! es

aris wminda wylis tyuili! jer

kidev gasuli wlis noemberSi

gviTxres vadamdeli arCevnebis

daniSvnaze uari. maSin xom gaxsovT,

molaparakebebi amerikis

elCis CarTulobiT daiwyo.

_ maSin vadamdel arCevnebze

giTxres, rom „qarTuli ocneb-

isTvis“ es wiTeli xaziao.

_ gviTxres, vadamdeli arCevnebis

sakiTxi arcki ganixilebao.

amis Sesaxeb arCil TalakvaZem da

irakli kobaxiZem gangvicvxades

da am frazas didi xani imeorebdnen

TuTiyuSebiviT.

_ imaze xom iyo saubari, rom

Tu „qarTuli ocneba” TviTm-

marTvelobis arCevnebze 40%-ze

naklebs aiRebda, xelisufleba

daTanxmdeboda vadamdeli sapa-

rlamento arCevnebis Catarebas?

_ es iniciativa namdvilad ga-

JRerda, magram aRniSnuli winadadeba

imdenad araseriozuli

da absurduli iyo, rom yura-

dRebis Rirsadac ki ar miviCnie.

aseve moiqcnen sxva opozicionerebic.

_ ratom ar miviCnieT yura-

dRebis Rirsad?

_ imitom, rom es, rogorc

rusebi ityvian xolme, „riJa bazari“

iyo. am sisuleleze da-

Tanxmeba rogor SeiZleboda?

Turme, vadamdel arCevnebs dani-

Snavdnen im SemTxvevaSi, Tu Tvi-

TmmarTvelobis arCevnebze 40%-

ze naklebs aiRebdnen. gamoitanda

ivaniSvili putinis gamogzavnil

miliardebs, kidev erTxel

moisyidida amomrCevels da aiRebda

49%-s. amiT samudamod dar-

Ceboda xelisuflebaSi. am SeTavazebaze

wasvla qveynis kazino-

Si gaTamaSebas niSnavda. iseT verag

adamianTan, rogoric biZina

ivaniSvilia, kazinos principebiT

TamaSi rogor SeiZleba? es misi

mindoria da nebismier SemTxveva-

Si mogigebs.

_ mas Semdeg, rac molaparake-

bebi datoveT, JrnalistebTan

TqviT, rom xelisufleba parlamentSi

Sesvlis sanacvlod sakanonmdeblo

organoSi 5 komitetis

Tavmjdomaris posts gTava-

zobdaT. ratom egonaT, rom

amaze opozicia daTanxmdeboda?

_ mogexsenebaT, rom adamianebi

Tavisi uzneobis xarisxiT

zomaven yvelafers. amaT, etyoba,

hgoniaT rom Cven TanamdebobisTvis

varT politikaSi. vis ra

jandabad unda magaTi gadmogdebuli

komitetis Tavmjdomareoba?!

saparlamento komitetis

Tavmjdomare, jer kidev, 1992-

1995 wlebis mowvevis parlamentSi

viyavi da Zalian seriozuli

kanonebi maqvs miRebuli. iaraRis

tareba Cemi akrZalulia. am kanonis

misaRebad didi brZolebis

gadatana damWirda. Tengiz kitovanisgan

da jaba ioselianisgan

didi winaaRmdegoba Semxvda, magram

mainc gavitaneT kanoni da

amiT uamravi adamianis sicocxle

gadavarCineT. albaT, gemaxsovrebaT,

maSin quCaSi iaraRiT

uproblemod gadaadgildebodnen

Cveni moqalaqeebi. iaraRis

tareba iseTi ambavi iyo, rogorc

jinsis qurTukis tareba.

politikaSi myofi adamianebi,

bunebrivia, xelisuflebaSi mosvlas

cdiloben. SeiZleba,

sportsmens moedanze gasvla ar

undodes? ase gvinda Cvenc parlamentSi

Sesvla, esaa Cveni saasparezo

arena, magram gaaCnia parlaments.

am parlamentSi Sesvla

niSnavs, rom saqarTvelos momavali

movuspoT. es parlamenti gayalbebis

gziT airCies. Cven gayalbebul

arCevnebs ar vcnobT da

parlamentSi ar SevalT.

_ isev maisis aqcias davubrundeT:

Tqveni azriT, es aq-

cia rame Sedegs moitans?

_ am aqciam SeiZleba, „qarTuli

ocneba” ver CamoSalos, magram

raRac Sedegi iqneba. erT

rameSi darwmunebuli var, rom

ivaniSvili wels politikurad

dasruldeba.

N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

9

giga gelxviiZe

592 41 85 85

ramdenime Tvis win saqarTvelo

kvlav SeZra morigma tragikulma faqtma _ qobuleTis raionis

sofel qaquTSi 14 wlis gogona xeze CamomxrCvali ipoves. gamo-

Zieba aRiZra TviTmkvlelobamde miyvanis muxliT. dakavebulia

piri, romelmac gogona gaaupatiura, periodulad emuqreboda

da masze seqsualurad Zaladobda. daakaves babua, romelic

SviliSvils fizikurad uswordeboda. 14 wlis nini cecxlaZis

tragikulad gardacvalebis SemTxveva aqtualobas ar kargavs.

pasuxgaucemeli kiTxva, jer kidev, bevria. ojaxi, skola, me-

zoblebi, axloblebi _ es is jgufebia, romlebmac icodnen da

dumdnen, dumdnen manam, sanam fataluri Sedegi ar dadga.


nini cecxlaZe:

`Tu es SegeZlo,

rom mcodnoda,

ar gagyvebodi~

„qronika+~-ma aseve moipova

informacia imis Sesaxeb, rom

xe, romelzedac gardacvlili

CamomxrCvali ipoves, imdenad

xmeli iyo, sxeulis wonas ver

gauZlebda, rac, bunebrivia, saqmeSi

damatebiT kiTxvebs badebs.

Cven amis Sesaxebac davusviT

SekiTxva naia dalaqiSvils,

razedac man damcinavad gvipasuxa

da xis Sesamowmeblad

ojaxSi migvipatiJa:

_ ara, sayvarelo, SegiZlia,

mobrZande, xec adgilzea, Cvenc

adgilze varT da naxavT. gamo-

Zieba iyo mosuli da gadaamowma,

ramdenad SesaZlebeli iyo,

xes sxeulisTvis gaeZlo.

medea

kalandariSvili

„qronika+~ kidev erTxel

daubrunda saqmis detalebs

da Seecada gaerkvia Tu, ra

xdeboda da ratom dumda sa-

zogadoeba maSin, rodesac 14

wlis mozardze fsiqologiuri

da fizikuri terori xo-

rcieldeboda?

„vicodiT ambavi, vicodi,

rac sWirda ninis, magram ambobdnen,

es biWi maTi ojaxis

axlobelia da amitom gahyva

mas, viTom nini viRacis dabadebis

dReze unda waeyvana im RamiT”,

gviyveba wyaro da imasac

ar malavs, Tu ra stressa da

garemoSi uwevda cxovreba 14

wlis mozards, aseve im adamianebze,

romlebic masze Zaladobdnen.

wyaro aseve gviyveba,

rom nini sul dedaze saubrobda

da masTan wasvla undoda,

gansakuTrebiT ki mis cxovrebaSi

momxdari tragediis Semdeg,

romelzedac is „megobrobis

dRiurSi” gakeTebul saku-

Tar CanawerebSi saubrobs.

aseve gveubneba, rom ninis bevrjer

aqvs masTan naTqvami wlebis

winaTac, rom babua mTvrali

movida da mcemao.

„ninis ar uyvarda sakuTar

problemebze saubari, is pozitiuri

adamiani iyo, magram

zogjer gulis tkivils gamoxatavda”,

_ gveubneba wyaro.

wyarosTan saubrisas gamoikveTa

faqti, romelsac saqmes-

Tan dakavSirebuli mniSvnelovani

detalebi hqonda. „qronika+”-ma

faqtebi gardacvlili

gogonas garemocvasTan gadaamowma,

rac maT dagvidastures,

Tumca vinaidan ojaxis Zalian

eSiniaT, vinaobis gamxela ar

isurves.

„skolamde xma ar miitanes,

magram ninis garemocvaSi, ker-

Zod ojaxSi, iyvnen maswavleblebi,

romlebic qaquTis sajaro

skolaSi aswavlian”, _ gveubneba

wyaro.

daviwyeT gamorkveva, konkretulad

romel pedagogze iyo

naia

dalaqiSvili

saubari. gzam qaquTis skolis

direqtoris moadgile, medea

kalandariSvilamde migviyvana,

romelic skolaSi qarTul enasa

da literaturas aswavlis

da, amavdroulad, ojaxis axlobelia.

wyaros mier mopovebuli informaciis

gadasamowmeblad

davukavSirdiT medea kalandariSvils,

romelmac dagvidastura,

rom namdvilad imyofeba

ojaxTan axlo urTierTobaSi

da mkacrad gviTxra, vacadoT

ormocis Catareba:

_ ar grcxveniaT, xalxo?! ar

daiRaleT?! axla ar gvacdiT

mainc, rom ormoci CavataroT

am bavSvis?!

qaquTis skolis kidev erTi

pedagogi, romelic xelovnebas

aswavlis, naia dalaqiSvilia,

igi aseve ojaxis axlobelia,

konkretulad ki ninis erT-er-

Ti biZis meuRle. dalaqiSvili

imdenad axlo urTierTobaSi

iyo ninisTan da mis Zma suliko

cecxlaZesTan, es ukanaskneli

mas „gamzrdelsac” ki uwodebs.

eWvgareSea, rom ojaxTan ase

axlos myof pirs aucileblad

eqneboda informacia imis Sesaxeb,

Tu ra xdeboda 14 wlis

ninis cxovrebaSi. swored am

kiTxviT mivmarTeT mas:

_ ratom ar miitaneT ninis

problema skolamde? ras amCnevdiT

mas im ori Tvis manZilze,

sanam Tavs moiklavda?

ucnauri araferi iyo mis qcevebSi?

_ ar miviCnie saWirod, ojaxis

ambavi gametana sofelSi

salaparakod, skolaSi faqts

yvela gaigebda, rac aucileblad

imoqmedebda bavSvis fsiqikaze.

skola gansakuTrebuls

verafers gaakeTebda.

_ amCnevdiT Tu ara rame

ucnaurs ori Tvis manZilze ninis?

_ arafers ucnaurs ar vamCnevdi,

bavSvi iyo Cveulebrivad

Zalian karg xasiaTze.

ra informacia moipova

`qronika+~-ma

~-ma

14 wlis nini cecxlaZis

TviTmkvlelobaze?

wyaro imasac gviyveba, rom

naia dalaqiSvili yvelafers

akeTebda imisTvis, raTa gamo-

Zieba ar misuliyo konkretul

pirebTan, romlebsac SesaZloa,

saqmisTvis arsebuli mniSvnelovani

informacia hqonodaT.

„naia, cdilobda, rom gamo-

Zieba Cvenamde ar mosuliyo,

gveubneboda, Tu gamoZieba CveniT

dainteresdeboda, gvepasuxa,

rom man Tavi moikla da

meti araferi vicodiT. is aseve

gvafrTxileblda, rom Tu

aravin gvkiTxavda rames, CveniT

ar gveaqtiura”, _ gviyveba

wyaro.

„qronika+” naia dalaqiSvilTan

aRniSnulis gadamowmebasac

Seecada, Tumca man telefoni

gagviTiSa.

rogorc wesi, skolis moswavleebis

saeWvo qcevasa da

maTTan dakavSirebul problemebs

aqtiurad adevnebs Tvalyurs

direqcia. aRniSnulidan

gamomdinare, bunebrivia, davinteresdiT,

ra informacias

flobda qaquTis skolis direqtori

manana CxaiZe da gaatara

Tu ara man qmediTi RonisZiebebi?

aseve davinteresdiT,

hqonda Tu ara kontaqti socialur

muSakTan, romelic gogonasTan

muSaobda, Tumca man

arc erT Cvens zars ar upasuxa.

wyaro gviyveba, rom nini Tavis

klaselebsac aqtiurad uyveboda

mis problemebze, Tumca

maT gogona gariyes da, ubralod,

aRar ekontaqtebodnen. misive

informaciiT, babua, romelic

gogonaze fizikuri Zaladobis

braldebiT daakaves, ar

iyo erTaderTi, vinc ninis

scemda.

„nini bolo periodSi klaselebs

werda, magram isini am faqtis

Semdeg pasuxs ar scemdnen.

ninis Zalian rcxvenoda.

minda amovisunTqo da bolomde

giTxraT, rom marto babua

rom ibralebs, ar iyo egre, iq

iyvnen biZebi, romlebmac sastikad

iZalades ninize _ scemes.

ninis Zalian uyvarda sicocxle,

ver vijereb, rom Tavi

moikla. is miiyvanes am gadawyvetilebamde

_ sulierad gaanadgures”.

„qronika+~ agrZelebs saqmeze

muSaobas da damatebiTi detalebis

arsebobis SemTxvevaSi

viTarebas gagacnobT.

10

10 N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.


faruli Canawerebis skandaluri kuluaruli detalebi

„SuSis sasaxlis” karze is erT-

giorgi abaSiZe

erTi yvelaze Zlevamosili da

gavleniani adamiani iyo. yovel

SemTxvevaSi, sxvadasxva wyaros monacemiT, mis gareSe „pirvelTan”

verc Citi Sefrindeboda da verc WianWvela Sevidoda. aseTi

„Citebi” da „WianWvelebi” ki mmarTvel partiaSi, mogexsenebaT,

sakmarisze metni arian... misTvis „is”, anu biZina mzec iyo, mTvarec

da varskvlavebic. metic: sxvebsac arwmunebda, biZina yvel-

ganaa, yvelafers, yvelas xedavs da yvelaferi esmiso.

„mas ar sWirdeba gakerpeba

radgan is Tavad amsxvrevs kerpebs!

mas ar sWirdeba Cveni fuli,

radgan yvela qarTvelze ufro

mdidaria!

aranairi kedeli biZinasa da

xalxs Soris ar arsebobs, radgan

biZina xalxia!

mas ar sWirdeba gandideba,

radgan is ukve ganadida misma

saqmeebma!

ar gWirdebaT fizikuri biZina,

yvela, vinc adamianis samsaxurSi

dgas, policielisa da eqimis CaTvliT,

yvela biZinaa da amitom nu

nerviulobT. is gaxariac biZinaa

da is jandacvac”, _ ai, zustad am

sityvebiT moZRvravda „ocnebis”

mrevls arcTu didi xnis win, magram,

mogexsenebaT, amqveynad maradiuli

araferia. Sesabamisad,

misi „maradiulobac”, ufro sworad,

„SuSis sasaxlis” karze gavlenebic,

damTavrda, Tan, moaruli

xmiT, ise damTavrda, rom veRarasodes

„aRorZindeba”, radgan

kuluarebSi yvela ambobs, „batoni”

Zalian gabrazebuliao.

„qronika+”-s imasac uyvebian,

Tu visi piriT SeuTvala biZina

ivaniSvilma laSa nacvliSvils, _

marto televiziidan ki ar waxvide,

aramed ise „gaqri”, rom Seni

arseboba aRaravin da aRaraferma

gamaxsenoso.

„SemiZlia, danamdvilebiT

giTxraT, rom ivaniSvilsa da nacvliSvils

Soris e. w. Suamavali

irakli kobaxiZe iyo. aqamde nacvliSvils

oligarqTan mesame piriT

saubari ar sWirdeboda, magram

mas Semdeg, rac irakli RaribaSvili

premieri meored gaxda, yvelaferi

Seicvala.

zogadad, axali imaSi araferia,

rom RaribaSvilsa da nacvliSvils

imTaviTve cudi urTierToba

aqvT. albaT, isic gaxsovT, pirvelad

rom gaxda RaribaSvili

premieri, laSas partiuli gavlenebi

Sesustda da amitom maSin

iZulebuli gaxda, televizia daefuZnebina.

albaT, moaxerxa da

ivaniSvili daarwmuna, televizia

xalxis samarTavad yvelaze kargi

iaraRia _ propagandistuli manqanaa

da amaSi fulis daxarjvac

Rirso”, _ uyveba wyaro Cvens

gamocemas.

nebismieri mediasaSualeba, bunebrivia,

nebismieri politikuri

Zalis xelSi kargi iaraRia _ ase

iyo adre da asea axlac, magram 21-

e saukuneSi, kargad Tu CavuRrmavdebiT,

sazogadoebrivi azris

formireba socialuri qseliT

ukeTesad SeiZleba, vidre, magaliTad,

televiziiT, Tan Tu es

televizia romelime politikur,

miT umetes, mmarTvel ZalasTan

ilinkeba, mosaxleobas, minimum,

kiTxvis niSnebi uCndeba.

mokled, post tv-is SemTxveva-

Sic ase moxda da, miuxedavad imisa,

rom televizias finansuri nakadebis

nakleboba, rogorc amboben,

arasodes hqonia, qveyanaSi

iseTi foni ver Seqmna, ai, Tu „ocneba“

xelisuflebidan wava, „sisxlismsmeli”

„nacebi” dabrundebian

da is „avbediTi” 9 weli xelaxla

daiwyebao.

sxvaTa Soris, imaze, rom aRniSnul

mediasaSualebaSi fuli

uazrod da xSirad umiznodac ixarjeba,

politikur wreebSi bevrs

saubroben.

metic: ramdenime dRis win im

informaciacam gamoJona, rom

„post tv-Si” TiTqos finansTa

saministros sagamoZiebo samsaxuri

Sevida.

amis gageba aravis gahkvirvebia,

miT umetes, rom yvelaferi nacvliSvilis

televiziidan wasvlas

daemTxva, Tumca sabolood gairkva,

rom fnansuris Sesvla feikniusi

iyo.

„miuxedavad imisa, rom finans-

Ta saministros sagamoZiebo samsaxuris

mier, Jurnalistebis

kiTxvebis pasuxad, araerTgzis

ganimarta, rom sagamoZiebo samsaxuri

ar aris Sesuli telekompania

„post tv-Si” da ar axorcielebs

operatiul-samZebro RonisZiebebsa

da sagamoZiebo moqmedebebs,

calkeulma mediasaSualebebma

mainc gaavrceles mcdari informacia,

TiTqos sagamoZiebo samsaxuri

aRniSnul telekompaniaSi sagamoZiebo

moqmedebebs awarmoebs,

rac aris sicrue.

maRali sajaro interesis

gaTvaliswinebiT, kidev erTxel

ganvmartavT, rom arc erT mediasaSualebaSi

da arc telekompania

„post tv-Si” sagamoZiebo samsaxuri

ar aris Sesuli.

movuwodebT calkeul mediasa-

Sualebebs, Tavi Seikavon mcdari

informaciis gavrcelebisgan”, _

naTqvamia finansTa saministros

mier mimdinare wlis 13 marts

gavrcelebul gancxadebaSi.

ise, roca aRniSnuli informacia

gavrcelda, e. w. faruli Canawerebis

skandali ukve dawyebuli

iyo: albaT, gaxsovT, rom tv „pirvelma”,

kerZod, nodar melaZis

sagamoZiebo jgufma, 6 marts skandaluri

Canawerebi gamoaqveyna,

romlis mTavari figurantebic

moqmedi premier-ministri irakli

RaribaSvili, saxelmwifo dacvis

specialuri samsaxuris xelmZRvaneli

anzor CubiniZe da „qarTuli

ocnebis” damfuZeblisa da

yofili Tavmjdomaris, biZina

ivaniSvilis vaJi bera ivaniSvili

arian. es sameuli im mozardebisa

da axalgazrdebis dasja-daSinebis

meTodebs ganixilavs, romlebmac

socialur qselSi gabedes

da bera an gaakritikes, an uxamsi

komentari dauweres.

marTalia, anzor CubiniZem da

ivaniSvilis vaJma Canawerebis avTentikuroba

eWvqveS ar daayenes

da, pirdapir Tu iribad, mianiSnes,

aseTi dialogebi marTla gvqondao,

magram amas axla mniSvneloba

ar aqvs. mTavari isaa, rom

visi piriT da ra SeuTvala

ivaniSvilma laSa nacvliSvils?

ivaniSvili, rogorc amboben, „ocnebaSi”

im adamians eZebs, romelsac

am Canaweris JurnalistebisTvis

miwodeba SeeZlo.

sxvadasxva wyaros monacemiT,

Tavidanve am kuTxiT sami adamiani

iyo eWvmitanili: Tbilisis meri

kaxa kalaZe, sus-is ufrosis yofili

moadgile ioseb gogaSvili

da raoden daujerebelic unda

iyos, Tavad laSa nacvliSvili,

anu mmarTveli partiis mTavari

strategi da „piarSCiki”.

Tu gavyvebiT versias, rom Canawerebi

nacvliSvilma gamoitana,

maSin Cndeba legitimuri kiTxva, _

ra rjida, anu is toti ratom

moiWra, romelzedac ijda? axla,

Tu nacvliSili ivaniSvilis mxolod

marjvena ki ara, marcxena

xelic iyo, cxadia, amas „sazogadoebriv

sawyisebze” ar gaakeTebda.

e. i., Sesabamisi anazRaurebac

eqneboda, gavlenaze aRarafers

vambobT, magram yuradsaRebia

erTi detali:

kerZod, is, rom mas Semdeg, rac

premieriad irakli RaribaSvili

iniSneba, cnobili xdeba, rom nacvliSvilma

„ocnebis” mTavari strategis

posti datova. es aravis

gahkvirvebia, radgan werilis

dasawyisSive aRvniSneT, am ukanasknelsa

da RaribaSvils wlebia,

cudi urTierToba aqvTo.

saxlSi ki wavida, magram xom gaxsovT,

nacvliSvilma rom „dagvibara”,

biZina yvelgan aris, yvelasa

da yvelafers xedavso.

hoda, saxlSic dainaxa da...

ai, yvelaze mTavari swored amis

mere iwyeba, anu Sin ki wavida,

magram samTavrobo wreebidan gamoJonili

xmebis Tanaxmad, nacvliSvils

iq, zeviT SeuTvlia, Cem-

Tan oms ar girCevT, radgan iseTi

audioTeka maqvs, wina saubrebi

monagoni iqneba _ Tu rogorme

mediis xelSi moxvda, mesame msoflio

omi Tu ara, „ocnebis”

afeTqeba gardauvaliao.

ucnobia, „ocnebis” afeTqeba

`nacvliSvils iq, zeviT SeuTvlia, CemTan oms

ar girCevT, radgan iseTi audioTeka maqvs,

wina saubrebi monagoni iqneba - Tu rogorme

mediis xelSi moxvda, mesame msoflio omi Tu

ara, òcnebis~ afeTqeba gardauvaliao~

eqsstrategosma sad da visTan

daaanonsa, magram sando wyaroebi

piradi saubrebisas adastureben,

rom am „daanonsebis” gamo mmarTvel

elitaSi arcTu karg gunebaze

arian da yoveli axali dRis gaTenebas

SiSiT elian, _ emand, Jurnalistebma

rame ar gaavrcelon

da SarSi ar gavexvioTo. amasTan,

is xmac dadis, rom nacvliSvilis

personiT SesaZloa, Sesabamisi samsaxurebic

dainteresdnen.

zogadad, „ocnebaSi” msgavsi

Sida omebi axali ar gaxlavT, Tan

isedac xom viciT, rom cixe

Signidan tydeba. aba, Signidan rom

ar gatexiliyo, „SuSis sasaxlis”

arcTu humanuri „garTobebis”

Sesaxeb sazogadoeba xom ver gaigebda?

amitomac, axla „ocneba”,

ufro sworad, misi liderSifi, or

frontze ibrZvis _ jer erTi, CaSlili

molaparakebis miuxedavad,

dasavleTis, am SemTxvevaSi, aSS-is

risxvas rogorme unda gadaurCes

da meorec, Tu ucxoelebisgan

safrTxe ar Seeqmneba, asi yuri da

asi Tvali unda gamoibas, radgan

erT aramSvenier dRes cixe Signidan

SesaZloa, isev gatydes da

sazogadoeba kidev ufro Sokismomgvreli

ambebis mowme gaxdes,

vidre zemoxsenebuli faruli

Canaweri iyo.

N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

11

ra SemTxvevaSi Rebulobs

gadawyvetilebebs ivaniSvili? ra

safrTxe emuqreboda nika me-

lias? vin gasca „gavrilovis

Rames“ darbevis brZaneba? ras

iTxovs saakaSvilis biZa Temur

alasania opoziciisgan? ratom

sjobs boboxiZe baqraZes? _ am

Temebze petre mamraZe „qroni-

ka+~-s esaubreba:

_ molaparakebebis CaSlis Sem-

deg isev daiwyo saubari imaze,

rom qveyanaSi politikur pro-

cesebs kvlav biZina ivaniSvili

marTavs, romelic ianvarSi po-

litikidan kidev erTxel wavida.

Tqven ras fiqrobT, _ ivaniSvili

CarTulia qveynis marTvaSi?

_ ivaniSvili procesebSi ar

ereva. masze adrec ambobdnen, rom

qveyanas kuluarebidan marTavda,

rac araswori iyo. rodesac premieris

posti ekava, maSinac ki naklebad

ekareboda im saqmeebs, rac

mTavrobis meTaurs evaleboda.

ramdenime wlis win man Tqva, hki-

TxeT giorgi kvirikaSvils, roca

is premieri iyo, Tu damirekavs da

rame davaleba mimiciao. es alali

sityvebia. qveynis marTva da

epizoduri, wertilovani CarTvebi

sxvadasxva rame gaxlavT.

gamoJona informaciam da

logikasac emTxveva, rom ivaniSvili

Caeria imis gadawyvetaSi, Tu

vin gaxdeboda premieri giorgi

gxarias gadadgomis Semdeg. saqme-

Si Caxeduli adamianebi amboben da

mec veTanxmebi am mosazrebas, rom

gundi Tavisi iniciativiT irakli

RaribaSvils premierad ar daabrundebda.

aseTi wertilovani

Carevebi qmnis specifikur atmosferos

gundSi. gundis wevrebma

ician, rom raRacas Tu ityvian an

gaakeTeben, SesaZloa, ivaniSvili

ucbad Caerios. es saqarTvelos

politikur procesebze moqmedebs

rogorc dadebiTad, aseve

uaryofiTad.

_ Tqveni saubridan gamom-

dinare, ivaniSvili politikur

procesebs ar marTavs, magram

epizodurad erTveba da xelisuflebac

imas akeTebs, rac ivaniS-

vils unda.

_ Zalianac rom undodes, is

ver moaxerxebs qveynis marTvas.

vinc qveyanas marTavs, mas uwyvet

reJimSi unda awvdidnen informaciebs

qveyanaSi da mis gareT arsebul

viTarebaze. gadawyvetileba

rom miiRo, es informaciebic

unda gadaamowmo, radganac Sesa-

Zloa, yvelaze sando da erTgulma

adamianma SecdomiT mogitanos

ambavi. ivaniSvili ar marTavs.

rogorc giTxariT, is mxolod

wertilovan CarTvebs axorcielebs.

gundi mis azrs iTvaliswinebs.

_ molaparakebebis CaSla Tu

iyo ivaniSvilis epizoduri,

12


gavrilovis Rames darbevis

yofili deputati, petre mam-

Sorena marsagiSvili

raZe, ar fiqrobs, rom qveyanaSi

599 92 16 22

politikuri krizisia. mas arc

imis sjera, rom biZina ivaniSvili

saqarTvelos kuluarebidan marTavs. mamraZis TqmiT, is mx-

olod wertilovan CarTvebs axorcielebs, rac „qarTuli

ocnebisTvis” stresul garemos qmnis. maT ar ician, rodis Cae-

rTveba procesebSi ivaniSvili.

petre mamraZe:

`nika melia

SeiZleboda,

moeklaT~

wertilovani Carevis Sedegi?

opozicia amtkicebs, rom amis

ukan swored biZina ivaniSvili

dgas.

_ amas kategoriulad gamovricxav.

molaparakebebi CaSala

opoziciam, pirvel rigSi saakaSvilma

da biZamisma Temur alasaniam

gaakeTes es. ramdenime wlis

win gavrcelda saubris Canaweri,

sadac saakaSvili da biZamisi saubroben.

iq alasania qarTvel

xalxs Seuracxmyofeli sityvebiT

moixseniebs da mere dasZens: radikalizacia!

iqve amatebs: davi-

Rale cdiT!

Temur alasania ramdenime mizezis

gamo aris saintereso persona.

rusuli presa mas yovelTvis

moixseniebs, rogorc ÊÃÁ-s generals.

am organizaciisTvis warsuli

dro ar arsebobs. igor giorgaZe

dRemde acxadebs, rom

ÊÃÁ-s generalia. mas eubnebian, sabWoTa

kavSiri 30 wlis winaT, 1991

wels daiSalao. es jiutad ambobs,

_ mere ra, rom daiSala, me viyavi

da dRemde vrCebi sabWoTa kav-

Siris ÊÃÁ-s generlado. Temur

alasanias Tavisi uaxloesi garemocvisTvis

araerTxel aqvs naTqvami,

rom miSa Cem gareSe mniSvnelovan

gadawyvetilebebs arasdros

Rebulobso. cxonebulma

aleqsandre rondelma wlebis

winaT Tqva, _ rogorc Cans, qveyanaSi

axali Tanamdebobaa, prezidentis

biZa.

_ „nacionalebis“ mmarTvelo-

bis wlebSi araerTxel iTqva, rom

uSiSroebis sabWos sxdomebs pi-

radad Temur alasania atarebda.

_ is xSirad akeTebda amas.

rogorc amboben, is arwmunebda

miSas, Sesuliyo cxinvalSi. umtkicebda,

rusebs movelaparake da

yvelaferi kargad iqnebao. riT

damTavrda cxinvalSi Sesvla, viciT.

mkiTxvels misi da gubaz sanikiZis

saubarsac gavaxseneb. saakaSvilis

biZa sanikiZes eubneba,

araviTari Sesvla parlamentSi.

Zalaufleba unda aiRoT xelSi

da SeqmnaT erovnuli gadarCenis

komiteti. unda mimarToT msoflios,

rom Tqveni araferi gvWirdeba.

Cven movediT da yvelaferze

pasuxs Tavad vagebT. es bolo

Zalian saintereso gancxadebaa.

ucxoeTis daxmarebis gareSe saqarTvelo

saerTod ver iarsebebs.

Tqvenma mkiTxvelma SeiZleba

CaTvalos, rom es kaci „qarTuli

ocnebis” apologetia da maT uWers

mxarso. me „ocnebis” mxardam-

Weri ar var. es xelisufleba araerTxel

myavs umowyalod gakritikebuli.

axlac siamovnebiT gavakritikebdi

maT, qveyana saSinel

dReSi Caagdes, magram Cven sxva

Temaze vsaubrobT. „ocnebas” Zalianac

rom sdomoda, opoziciis

or moTxovnas ubralod ver daakmayofilebda.

verc vadamdel

arCevnebs daniSnavda da verc

politpatimrebs gamouSvebda.

amis gakeTeba SeuZlebeli iyo.

_ SeuZlebeli ratom iyo?

_ axlave mogaxsenebT, ratomac

iyo SeuZlebeli: opoziciis moTxovna

rom moismines, ucxoeli diplomatebi,

ubralod, gaogndnen.

diplomatebi yovelTvis frTxil

gancxadebebs akeTeben. am SemTxvevaSi

Zalian radikalurebi

iyvnen. maT opozicias mouwodes,

parlametSi unda SexvideTo. nika

gvaramiam Tavad dawera Tavis

feisbuqgverdze, rogor uTxra

amerikis elCis moadgilem giorgi

ruruaze, rom is ar aris

politpatimari, aramed bandis

lideri iyo. nika meliazec Znelia

imis Tqma, rom is politpatimaria.

me ar mixaria, is rom cixeSi

zis da arc xelisuflebas vamarTleb.

nika meliam daarRvia

kanoni, rodesac samajuri moixsna.

sasamarTlo mTlad damoukidebeli

rom yofiliyo, mainc mis

dakavebas gadawyvetda.

_ samajuri nika meliam gasu-

li wlis noemberSi, mitingze

moixsna da xalxSi gadaagdo. Tu

amiT kanoni daarRvia, maSinve

`Temur alasania ramdenime mizezis gamo aris

saintereso persona. rusuli presa mas

yovelTvis moixseniebs, rogorc ÊÃÁ-s

-s

generals. am organizaciisTvis warsuli dro

ar arsebobs. igor giorgaZe dRemde acxadebs,

rom ÊÃÁ-s -s generalia~

ratom ar daakaves igi?

_ marTali SeniSvnaa. is an Sar-

San noemberSi unda daekavebinaT,

anda 2019 wlis ivnisSi, „gavrilovis

Ramis“ Semdeg. maSin, ratom-

Rac, ar daakaves da swored aq

aris ZaRlis Tavi damarxuli. „gavrilovis

Ramec“ Zalian saintereso

iyo. im Rames mTeli Zalovnebi

elodnen wertilovan Carevas.

me marTviTi sistemebis specialisti

var da es CemTvis Zalian

aSkara da naTeli iyo. safrangeT-

Si „yviTeli Jiletebi“ xSirad awyoben

areulobebs. policiis prefeqti

adgilze Rebulobs gadawyvetilebebs,

rogor moiqces, mas

zevidan nebarTva ar sWirdeba.

aqvs wesdeba da romlis mixedvi-

Tac moqmedebs. CvenTan kidev ra

moxda, _ „gavrilovis Rames“, lamis,

saaT-naxevari gaunZrevlad

idga policia. aqciis monawileebi

policielebs urtyamdnen da

amcirebdnen. gaxarias, romelic

maSin Sinagan saqmeTa ministri

iyo, ise ar miuRia gadawyyvetileba

srolisa da gazis gaSvebisa,

rogorc me da Tqven ar gagvicia

es brZaneba.

_ es brZaneba mas rom ar

gaucia, amaze maSinve saubrobd-

nen. Tumca man brZanebis gacema,

ratomRac, sakuTar Tavze aiRo.

_ ratom aiRo es sakuTar Tavze,

ar vici. „gavrilovis Rames“

rezinis tyviebis srola da gazis

gamoyeneba manamde ar daiwyes,

sanam rusTavelze anzor CubiniZe

ar mivida. mas ar uTqvams, rom

biZina ivaniSvils velaparake da

man miTxra, aqcia daSaleTo. br-

Zaneba ase ar gaicema. iq anzor

CubiniZis gamoCenac ki sakmarisi

iyo. yvelam kargad icoda, Tu

visTan hqonda mas uSualo kontaqti.

man Tqva, kanonis mixedviT

unda vimoqmedoTo. es ukve mwvane

Suqi iyo, rom Zalovnebs moqmedeba

daewyoT. roca aseTi molodinia

viRacis wertilovani Carevis,

am dros sistemas yovelTvis

agviandeba reagireba.

_ CubiniZis ambavi davazustoT:

Tqveni saubridan gamom-

dinare, srolis brZaneba gasca

CubiniZem, romelsac, Tavis

mxriv, amis gakeTebis ufleba

biZina ivaniSvilma misca.

_ amas ver davasabuTeb. ubralod,

es magaliTad moviyvane. viRacebs

CemTvis uTqvamT, rom es mar-

Tlac ase iyo, rac mtkicebuleba

ar aris. faqti isaa, rom sanam

CubiniZe ar gamoCnda da viRacebs

ar daelaparaka, policias xeli

ar gaunZrevia. CubiniZe amaze

aucileblad daelaparakeboda

ivaniSvils, magram is ar etyoda,

rom midiT da daarbieTo. ivaniSvili

mas etyoda, ise imoqmedeT,

rogorc saWiroao. es ukve gasagebi

iqneboda xelisuflebisTvis,

rom ivaniSvils maTi moqmedeba ar

ewyineboda. Temas gadavuxvieT da

opoziciis moTxovnebs davubrundeT.

mmarTvel partias Tavidanve

gadaketili hqonda gza, rom es

ori moTxovna Seesrulebina.

opoziciaSi bevri milioneria,

ramdenime saerTod multimilioneri

gaxlavT. mamuka xazaraZes

da badri jafariZes vgulisxmob.

amdeni fuli raxan iSoves, sulelebi

ar arian. maT Tavidanve SesaniSnavad

icodnen, rom es ori mo-

Txovna principulad Seusrulebadia.

giorgi ruruas „qarTuli

ocneba” ver gamoiyvans. amis berketi

salome zurabiSvils aqvs. is

prezidentia da mas SeuZlia giorgi

ruruas Sewyaleba. nika melias

rac Seexeba, gegulebaT msoflioSi

adamiani, romelsac poli-

12 N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.


brZaneba CubiniZem gasca?

tpatimars eZaxdnen imis gamo, rom

11.000-evroiani girao ar gadaiaxada?

Cven viciT detalebi, rac

amas win uZRoda. ucxoelebisTvis

amis axsna cota Zneli iqneba.

kartografebis saqme aris „qarTuli

ocnebis” udidesi dana-

Sauli. iveri melaSvili da natalia

iliCova sul tyuilad daakaves.

ramdenime Tviani patimrobis

Semdeg isini giraoTi gaaTavisufles.

arc erT maTgans ar hqonda

giraos gadaxdis saSualeba.

viRacam gaxsna angariSi da Tqva,

Tanxa SevugrovoTo. qarTvelma

xalxma am or adamians wuTebSi

Seugrova giraosTvis saWiro

Tanxa. am Tanxis Segrovebis Sesaxeb

mogvianebiT gavige. dalxenili

cxovreba ar maqvs, magram maT angariSze

100 lars Cavricxavdi.

igive unda gaekeTebina Cems meu-

Rlesac. mTelma saqarTvelom

icoda, rom isini patiosani adamianebi

iyvnen da amitom Segrovda

maTTvis ase male girao.

_ arc nika melia yofila krim-

inali, cixeSi rom gauSves. masac

wuTebSi Seugrovebda xalxi gi-

raosTvis saWiro Tanxas, magram

melia kategoriul uars acxa-

debs, rom vinmem misi girao ga-

daixados.

_ nika melia araa kriminali,

amaze ar vkamaTob, magram vikiTxav,

_ ratom wavida nika melia

imaze, rom xelisuflebas is daepatimrebina?

ar vityvi, rom nikam

es miSa saakaSvilis davalebiT

gaakeTa, is sul sxva mizniT wavida

amaze. inga grigoliam Tqva,

opozicias pulsi aRar esinjeboda

da is nika meliam gaacocxlao.

mizani iyo, rom melia politpatimari

gamxdariyo da gaxda kidevac.

_ anu Tqvenc aRiarebT, rom

nika melia politpatimaria?

_ ara, me nikas politpatimrad

ar miviCnev. amis dajereba dasavleTs

ufro uWirs. maT ver warmoudgeniaT,

ratom hqvia adamians

politpatimari, roca mas SeuZlia

gadaixados girao da gareT gamovides.

_ TqviT, rom meliam Tavisi

daWeriT „nacionalebi“ gaacoxla.

nika melias daWera „nacionalebSi“

viRacebs Zalian gauxar-

daT.

_ es aSkaraa. melias dakaveba

„nacionalebSi“ cotas ar gaxarebia.

maT namdvilad hqondaT sixarulis

mizezi.

_ ratom gauxardaT misi

dakaveba, imitom rom viRacebi

CaaCoCa, maT Soris, merabiS-

vilic?

_ ara marto CaaCoCa. yvelasTvis

cnobili ambavia, rom nika melia

partiis Tavmjdomared air-

Cies saakaSvilis jinaze. es Zalian

didi ambavia. albaT, gemaxsovrebaT

ramdenime Tvis win gamoJonili

salome samadaSvilis saubari.

es profesori qali sul rusul

ucenzuro sityvebs xmarobs, romlebic

iwyeba asobgera x-ze. is

Zalian kargi ojaxiSvilia. es saubari

rom moismines, misi mSoblebi

saSinel mdgomareobaSi aRmoCndnen.

samadaSvilma Riad Tqva

`gavrilovis Rames~ rezinis tyviebis srola da gazis gamoyeneba manamde ar

daiwyes, sanam rusTavelze anzor CubiniZe ar mivida. mas ar uTqvams, rom

biZina ivaniSvils velaparake da man miTxra, aqcia daSaleTo. brZaneba ase

ar gaicema. iq anzor CubiniZis gamoCenac ki sakmarisi iyo. yvelam kargad

icoda, Tu visTan hqonda mas uSualo kontaqti. man Tqva, kanonis mixedviT

unda vimoqmedoTo. es ukve mwvane Suqi iyo, rom Zalovnebs moqmedeba

daewyoT. roca aseTi molodinia viRacis wertilovani Carevis, am dros

sistemas yovelTvis agviandeba reagireba~

is, rasac saakaSvilsa da sxvebze

fiqrobda. saubarSi qalbatoni

profesori roman gociriZesac

axsenebs. vimeoreb: nika melia air-

Cies saakaSvilis jinaze. aman partiaSi

seriozuli gadaadgilebebi

gamoiwvia.

me vicnob erT wesier adamians,

romelic „nacionalebis“ dros

Zalovan struqturebSi muSaobda.

„nacionaluri“ moZraobis Tavmjdomared

melia rom airCies,

miTxra, _ petre, sul imaze vwuxvar,

saakaSvilma am dReebSi nika

melia ar gaagorebinoso.

es Cveni saubari nikas daWeramde

cota xniT adre Sedga. is

kaci meubneboda, es miSas xelweraa,

gaagorebs melias, ahkidebs

amas „ocnebas”, rasac msoflio

donis skandali mohyvebao. es rom

miTxra, mec Zalian Sevwuxdi. sul

mag biWis dardi mqonda. gansakuTrebiT

maSin SevSfoTdi,

rodesac melias dakavebis operacia

daiwyo. vfiqrobdi, ra unda

raRacis afeTqebas da am axalgazrdis

likvidacias-meTqi.

sabednierod, es operacia ise

Catarda, rom saamisod xeli veravin

gaanZria, an viRacas nebisyofa

ar eyo, binZuri davaleba Seesrulebina.

mis garSemo erTguli

xalxic iyo da seriozuli provokacia

ver moxdeboda. dakavebis

dros xalxi „nacebis“ ofiss

axlosac ki ar miekara. verc

aqciebze gamoiyvanes mxardamWerebi.

amaTi aqciebis mTavari mteria

dronebi. Zalian cota xalxi

gamodis opoziciis mier organizebul

aqciebze. aqedan gamomdionare,

gekiTxebiT, _ sad aris

krizisi? arc politikuri krizisia

da arc arCevnebi gayalbebula.

amas dasavleTic aRiarebs,

`nika melia araa kriminali, amaze ar

vkamaTob, magram vikiTxav, - ratom wavida nika

melia imaze, rom xelisuflebas is

daepatimrebina? ar vityvi, rom nikam es miSa

saakaSvilis davalebiT gaakeTa, is sul sxva

mizniT wavida amaze. inga grigoliam Tqva,

opozicias pulsi aRar esinjeboda da is nika

meliam gaacocxlao. mizani iyo, rom melia

politpatimari gamxdariyo da gaxda kidevac~

jeims apaturaim Riad uTxra

opozicias, parlamentSi SediTo.

_ meTiu braizamac mouwoda

opozicias parlamentSi Sesv-

lisken.

_ braizaze axlobeli amerika-

Si am xalxs ar hyavda. braizam

„nacionalebi“ Zalian bevrjer

daindo. axla aRar daindo da

pirdapir uTxra, _ SediT parlamentSio!

isini mainc ar Sedian da

gaiZaxian, arCevnebi gayalbdao.

euTo/odiris daskvnaSi weria,

rom ar gayalbebula. parlamentSi

Sesvla sulac ar niSnavs gayalbebuli

arCevnebis legitimacias.

2008 wels mec videqi parlamentSi

Sesvla-arSesvlis winaSe, magram

Sevedi. 2008 wels saSinlad gayalbda

arCevnebi, magram sakanonmdeblo

organoSi Sesvla gadavwyvite.

ra, amiT gayalbebuli arCevnebis

legitimacia movaxdine? ra

Tqma unda, ara. me parlamenti

CemTvis gamoviyene.

_ ras niSnavs, TqvenTvis gam-

oiyeneT?

_ parlamentis tribuna xelisuflebis

mxilebisTvis gamoviyene.

im wlebis ganmavlobaSi parlamentis

tribunidan vamxeldi

„nacionalur moZraobas“. Cemi xma

mTel msoflioSi ismoda. imitom

ki ara, rom me rames warmovadgendi,

aramed imitom, rom saparlamento

tribunidan vakeTebdi amas.

saparalmento tribunidan vTqvi,

rom agvistros omi es iyo avantiura.

_ amis gamo dagesxaT akaki

boboxiZe Tavs?

_ ara, maSin ver gabeda Tavdasxma.

am sxdomas saakaSvili eswreboda

da maSin amas ver gaakeTebda.

_ is 2011 wlis 27 seqtembers

dagesxaT Tavs. soxumis dacemis

dRea da kargad damamaxsovrda es

TariRi.

_ 27 seqtemberi iyo. me parlamentSi

gavakeTe gancxadeba da

amerikeli senatorebis citata

moviSvelie, romlebic acxadebdnen,

rom saakaSvilma afxazeTi da

cxinvali langarze dadebuli miarTva

putins. am gancxadebas rom

vakeTebdi, maSin damartya boboxiZem.

_ ise, boroti xmebi amboben,

rom akaki boboxiZes Zalian unda

parlamentSi Sesvla.

_ sulac ar mikvirs. marto boboxiZes

ki ara, yvela opozicioners

unda iq Sesvla, magram veRar

Sedis.

_ Tu undaT, ratom veRar Sedian?

yvela imas eubneba, Sedi-

To.

_ imitom ver Sedian, rom Tavisive

gancxadebis gamo aRmoCndnen

CixSi. me ar mesmis, rogor unda

gaamarTlos opoziciam axla parlamentSi

Sesvla. Cven akaki boboxiZeze

vsaubrobdiT. masTan kargi

mogonebebi ar makavSirebs, magram

is pirovnulad mirCevnia

daviT baqraZes.

_ ratom girCevniaT boboxiZe

baqraZes?

_ ramdenime wlis win parlamentSi

akaki boboxiZe miubrunda

„qarTul ocnebas” da uTxra, _

Cven varT Semzaravebi, Cven varT

amazrzenebi, magram Tqven gvajobeT.

daviT baqraZisgan warmogidgeniaT,

rom Tqvas, Cven Semzaravebi

da amazrzenebi varTo? es warmoudgenelia.

_ verc me warmomidgenia,

daTo baqraZem aseTi gancxadeba

rogor unda gaakeTos.

_ kakos emociur doneze bevri

ramis Tqma SeuZlia da amiT ufro

maRla dgas, vidre daviT baqraZe

Tavisi TavSekavebulobiT, romelic

ucxoelebs agiJebs. isini

xSirad amboben, es rogori TavdaWerili

da ganaTlebuli politikosi

gyoliaTo. arada, daviT

baqraZes mxolod fuli ainteresebs.

gagaxsenebT saakaSvilisa da

vaSaZis saubars, romelic ramdenime

wlis winaT Sedga. es saubari

gasajarovda. saakaSvili ekiTxeba

vaSaZes, _ daTo baqraZe ras ambobso?

es pasuxobs, _ daTo ras

ityvis, gaiZaxis, fuli, fulio.

saakaSvili da masTan dakav-

Sirebuli nacistebi bolo wleb-

Si mxolod erTi ramiT axerxebdnen

yuradRebis mipyrobas. gaiZaxodnen,

rom saqarTveloSi mxolod

isini warmoadgenen prodasavlur

Zalas. amtkicebdnen, am

qveynis patriotebi varTo. sul

imas gveubnebodnen, rom saqarTvelos

adgili natosa da evrokav-

SirSiao. saqmiT ki sapirispiros

akeTebdnen. mTeli strategiuli

obieqtebi ruseTs gadasces.

bolo ramdenime Tvea, rac dasavleTi

maT parlamentSi Sesvlisken

mouwodebs. eubneba, qveynis

interesebi sakuTar interesebze

maRla daayeneTo. am mowodebebis

gamo „nacionalebma“ araerTxel

galanZRes dasavleTi. saakaSvilma

sul axlaxan Tqva, _ yvela idioti

da degeneratia dasavleTSi,

vinc me makritikebso. maTi dasavlurobis

rogor davijero, roca

maTTvis ÊÃÁ-s general Temur

alasanias mowodeba ufro Zvirfasia,

vidre evropisa da amerikis?

Temur alasania maT eubneba, arc

erTi adamiani parlamentSi, axlave

xelSi aiReT Zalauflebao. dasavleTi

ki opozicias parlamentSi

Sesvlisken mouwodebs.

N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

13

ratom aris CaSlili molaparakebebi

opoziciis gamarjve-

ba? ra triuki CaeSala biZina

ivaniSvils? ratom veRar iyi-

dis is opozicias? ratom aris

saWiro partiebis gamsxvileba?

ratom ar aayirava opoziciam

uSedego molaparakebebis magida?

_ amis Sesaxeb murman dumb-

aZe „qronika+”-s esaubreba:

_ maSin, roca mTeli saqar-

Tvelo da evropa umravlesobaopozicias

Soris molaparake-

bebis CaSlis gamo wuxda, Tqven

socialur qselSi dawereT, rom

yvelaferi midis Zalian magrad.

_ TqvenTan saubarSic igives

gavimeoreb, rom yvelaferi midis

Zalian magrad da molaparakebebi

dasrulda kargad. bi-

Zinas triuki, rogorme opozicia

SeeTria parlamentSi, Cavarda.

2021 wlis TviTmmarTvelobis

arCevnebze plebiscitis mibma,

2022-is gazafxulze arCevnebis

Catareba da amisTana sisuleleebi

Cavarda. damtkicda,

rom biZinas eSinia mxolod putinis.

aseve damtkicda, rom mixeil

saakaSvilis faqtori ganusazRvrelad

didia. am procesebma

dagvanaxa, rom saqarTvelo

evropisTvis mniSvnelovania.

gavigeT isic, rom amerikis imedi

isev unda gvqondes. yvelam

gaigo, rom reJimi molaparakebebiT

ar icvleba da rac mTavaria,

xalxs davumtkiceT, rom

opozicia ar iyideba.

_ es yvelaferi Zalian kar-

gi, magram ukeTesi ar iqneboda,

SeTanxmebisTvis migeRwiaT?

_ vfiqrob, rom uamisodac

yvelaferi Zalian magrad da

kargad midis. veranairi dokumenti

ver daideboda, romelic

mosaxleobaSi kiTxvis niSnebs ar

gaaCenda. Cven ar gvinda, im

xalxs gauCndes kiTxvis niSnebi,

romelmac 2020 wlis 31 oqtombers

ivaniSvili xelisuflebidan

gaaZeva. arasdros miTqvams, rom

arCevnebi gayalbda da arc axla

vityvi amas.

_ ras niSnavs, arCevnebi ar

gayalbda?

gayalbebuli

arCevnebis gamo ar ucxadebs

opozicia parlaments boikots?

_ me mainc ar vityvi, rom

arCevnebi gayalbda. vambob, rom

xelisufleba aris mitacebuli.

vTqvaT, biuletenebi ar CauyriaT,

fuli ar darigebula da arc

Zaladoba yofila. ceskos oficialuri

monacemebi ambobs,

saqarTvelos mosaxleobis 52%-

14


`molaparakebebiT ivaniSvilis

CaSlilma molaparakebebma yve-

Sorena marsagiSvili

la cud xasiaTze daayena. pozicia

599 92 16 22

da umravlesoba erTmaneTisken iS-

vers xels. opoziciis erT-erTi

lideri murman dumbaZe miiCnevs, rom CaSlili molaparakebe-

bidan gamarjvebuli gamovida opozicia. misive mtkicebiT, yvelaferi

Zalian magrad midis. opozicioneri ambobs, rom mola-

parakebebis gziT ivaniSvilis gaSveba SeuZlebelia. is gamosavals

saprotesto aqciebSi xedavs, romelic, misi TqmiT, mTe-

li qveynis masStabiT unda gaimarTos. murman dumbaZes imedi

aqvs, rom opozicia da xalxi Tavisas mainc gaitans. Catardeba

Tu ara riggareSe arCevnebi ar icis, magram darwmunebulia, rom

saqarTveloSi amieridan arCevnebis gayalbebas veravin gabedavs.

ma gadawyvita, rom biZina ivaniSvili

unda wavides xelisuflebidano.

xelisuflebaSi ki is

xalxi unda movides, vinc axla

Rameebs aTenebs karvebSi.

biZina ivaniSvils ar unda

imis aRiareba, rom mas amomrCevlis

52%-ma uari uTxra. amis

gamo nebismieri xelSekruleba,

romelic evropelebis mediaciiT

gaformdeboda, xalxis Tval-

Si ver iqneboda myari. evropamac

da saqarTvelos xelisuflebamac

unda aRiaros, rom opoziciam

52% miiRo. Cven, opozicias,

ufro meti xalxi gviWers mxars,

vidre _ „qarTul ocnebas”.

ise ar gavigoT, TiTqos 52%-

ma gadawyvita, rom „qarTuli

ocnebis” momxre 48% qveynidan

gavaZevoT. 52%-ma gadawyvita,

rom „qarTuli ocneba” aRar unda

iyos xelisuflebaSi. xalxs

ase ucbad ar uTqvams ivaniSvilisTvis

uari. es aris azvirTebuli

talRa, romelic am wlebis

manZilze nel-nela grovdeboda

da 2020 wlis 31 oqtombers Tavi

moiyara saarCevno ubnebze. es

arCevnebi Cven mogebuli gvaqvs.

_ iZaxeT, mogebuli gvaqvso,

qveyanas ki „qarTuli ocneba”

marTavs.

_ es imitom, rom xelisufleba

mitacebulia. saqarTvelos

moqalaqeebi mitacebul xelisuflebas

ar Seeguebian. es,

ubralzod, gamoricxulia, es

warmoudgenelia.

_ jerjerobiT „ocnebaa” xe-

lisuflebaSi, e. i. mitacebul

xelisuflebas saqarTvelos

moqalaqeebi eguebian.

_ damijereT, rom xalxi amas

ar Seegueba. xalxi maT aucileblad

gauSvebs. ver getyviT, es

rodis iqneba _ wels Tu momaval

wels, magram aucileblad moxdeba.

politikaSi 30 weliwadze

metia, rac var da bevri rame

gamegeba. amitomac vamtkiceb,

rom xalxi mitacebul xelisuflebas

ar Seegueba. politikuri

gamocdilebidan gamomdinare

var mSvidad da arsad meCqareba.

ivaniSvilze ki dro Zalian

cudad muSaobs.

_ ratom muSaobs ivaniSvilze

dro cudad?

_ rac ufro gvian mixvdeba

ivaniSvili, rom xelisuflebis

mitaceba ar SeiZleba, miT uaresi

iqneba misTvis. es mis politikur

dasasruls aaxloebs.

_ darwmunebuli xarT, rom

aaxloebs?

murman dumbaZe:

`nika melia Tu

ver gamoviyvaneT,

ugulavasa da

oqruaSvils

cixeSi

Seabruneben~

_ darwmunebuli var da es

rom asea, amaSi veravin gadamarwmunebs.

_ ivaniSvils aqvs Zalian bev-

ri fuli. Tqven wlebis winaT

mis uaxloes garemocvas war-

moadgendiT da iciT, rom mas am

fulis wyalobiT SeuZlia xalx-

is, maT Soris, politikosebis

mosyidva. gaqvT imis garantia,

rom vinmes ar moisyidis? zemoT

ki miTxariT, opozicia ar gaiy-

idao, magram bolomde ase iqne-

ba?

_ aqamde Tu ar gaiyida opozicia,

arc axla gaiyideba. mas

Semdeg, rac saqarTvelom damoukidebloba

moipova. quCaSi

darCenil opozicias aseTi seriozuli

Sedegi ar uCvenebia. pirdapir

geubnebiT, rom es aris

brwyinvale Sedegi da seriozuli

gamarjveba.

_ ras gulisxmobT brwyin-

vale SedegSi?

_ brwyinvale SedegSi vgulisxmob

imas, rom opozicia aris

erTiani da bariergadalaxuli

partiebi protestis niSnad ar

Sedian parlamentSi. es im dros

xdeba, rodesac ivaniSvili saqarTvelos

moqalaqeebsa da politikur

partiebs ganixilavs,

rogorc saqonels, romelic SegiZlia

iyido an gayido. mas

didi fuli aqvs, magram qarTuli

opozicia ar gaiyida. ivaniSvilma

ver SeZlo opoziciis parlamentSi

Setyueba.

_ ramdenime opozicioneri

Sevida parlamentSi.

_ elisaSvili da is meore

(levan ioseliani, _ S. m.) rom

SeZvrnen parlamentSi, es arafers

cvlis.

_ maT garda sxva opozicio-

nerebic Sevidnen parlamentSi.

„patriotTa aliansis“ wevrebze

vsaubrob.

_ arc maTi Sesvla niSnavs

`vaWrobis dawyeba imas ar niSnavs, rom es

`qarTuli ocnebis~ sasargeblod dasruldeba.

aleko elisaSvils Tu momiyvanT magaliTad,

getyviT, rom is axalbeda iyo da raRacnairi

uxeiro formuliT Seityues parlamentSi.

amiT man mxolod sakuTari Tavi daazarala.

mis partiasac ki bevri araferi dahklebia.

elisaSvilis partias ar ganvixilav partiad~

rames. imisTvis, rom iq moxvedriliyvnen,

partias saxeli gamoucvales.

ZiriTadi opozicia qu-

CaSia. amxela fulis patronma

ivaniSvilma maTi yidva ver moaxerxa.

da raki aqamde ver SeZlo,

awi maTi yidva ukve SeuZlebelia.

_ ratom ggoniaT, rom Seu-

Zlebelia?

_ imitom, rom opozicias

Zalian didi fasi daedo.

_ ivaniSvils SeuZlia Zalian

didi Tanxis gadaxda.

_ es saqmes ar uSvelis. opoziciis

fasi Zalian maRalia. amdens

ivaniSvili ver gadaixdis.

ar vici, rodis Catardeba arCevnebi

_ vadaze adre, Tu 2024

wels, magram opoziciam gaakeTa

is, rom arc erTi arCevnebi aRar

gayalbdeba. verc erTi saarCevno

administracia veRar gabedavs

arCevnebis gayalbebas. es aris

opoziciis mTavari miRweva.

_ ra gaZlevT imis Tqmis

safuZvels, rom arCevnebis gay-

albebas veRaravin gabedavs?

_ imitom veRar gabedavs, rom

saqarTveloSi Seiqmna precedenti,

rodesac politikuri Zalebi

ar aRiareben gayalbebas da

ar Sedian parlamentSi. opozicia,

rogorc arasdros, dRes iseTi

mtkicea da es saqarTvelos

momavlisTvis Zalian kargia.

_ darwmunebuli xarT, rom

opozicia mtkiced dgas? raRac

xmebi gamodis, rom viRacebi

xelisuflebasTan vaWroben.

politikuri partiebi parla-

mentSi ar Sedian. es aris

garkveviT naTqvami. viRacebT-

an vaWroba midis.

_ Cemi azriT, es seriozuli

problema araa da amis gamo

nerviuloba da gangaSis atexa ar

Rirs.

_ ratom ar aris problema?

_ vaWrobis dawyeba imas ar

niSnavs, rom es „qarTuli ocnebis”

sasargeblod dasruldeba.

aleko elisaSvils Tu momiyvanT

magaliTad, getyviT, rom is axalbeda

iyo da raRacnairi uxeiro

formuliT Seityues par-

14 N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.


gaSveba SeuZlebelia~

lamentSi. amiT man mxolod sakuTari

Tavi daazarala. mis partiasac

ki bevri araferi dahklebia.

elisaSvilis partias ar

ganvixilav partiad.

_ ratom ar ganixilavT? faq-

tia, rom saarCevno barieri

gadalaxes da 2 kaci gaiyvanes

parlamentSi.

_ 1%-iani partia partiad ar

iTvleba. samwuxaroa, magram es

realobaa. momavalSi opozicias

ufro meti simtkicis gamoCena

hmarTebs. es imas niSnavs, rom

patar-patara partiebs gaer-

Tianeba mouwevT. iseTi patara

saxelmwifo, rogoric saqarTveloa,

amden partias ver daitevs.

es Cemi axireba araa, amas politikuri

bazari gveubneba.

Cvens politikur arenaze 3-4

msxvili partia savsebiT sakmarisi

iqneba. partiebis gamsxvileba

xelovnurad da maTraxiT

warmoudgenlad mimaCnia, magram

saqmes ase sWirdeba. ramdenime

msxvili partia ufro

mimzidvels gagvxdis amomrCevlis

TvalSi. saeleqtorato bazari

amas pirdapir gvkarnaxobs.

magaliTad aviRoT „lelo“ da

„strategia aRmaSenebeli“. am or

partias Soris, faqtobrivad,

aranairi gasxvaveba ar aris. maTi

erT partiaSi gaerTianeba moqalaqeebs

ufro gamoiyvans arCevnebze.

ase mgonia, politikosebma

Cveni moqalaqeebi davRaleT

amdeni partiiT. me magaliTad,

Seqmnili maqvs partia „emsaxure

saqarTvelos”. es partia Zalian

Rirseul qalbaton medea vasaZesTan

erTad Sevqmeni. SeiZleba,

ar var Tbiliseli, magram mTeli

saqarTvelo micnobs, axmetidan

dawyebuli _ mestiiT damTavrebuli,

Tumca rogorc ki „nacionalebis“

siaSi Cavewere, ar

mivuTiTe Cemi partia, miviwere

upartio. raxan verTiandebiT,

Sinaarsobrivad gaverTiandeT

da moqalaqeebs aRar avurioT

partiebiT tvini. saqarTveloSi

3-4 partia savsebiT sakmarisi

iqneba. msxvil partiebs ufro

mtkice mxardamWerebi eyoleba.

es momavalSi unda gavakeToT.

axla sxva saqme gvaqvs. axla Cven

araviTar SemTxvevaSi ar unda

davixioT ukan.

_ ukan ardaxevaSi ras gulisxmobT?

ambobT, rom parla-

mentSi ar SexvalT da kidev

rame unda gaakeToT?

_ is unda gavakeToT rasac

zviad gamsaxurdia akeTebda merab

kostavasTan erTad gagania

komunistebis dros _ gamsaxurdiam

swored maSin daiwyo saprotesto

aqciebi. is aqciebs mxolod

TbilisSi, rusTavelze ar

marTavda. man saqarTvelos TiTqmis

yvela qalaqSi gamarTa wvril-wvrili

lokaluri aqciebi.

am aqciebma moitana uprecedento

ram da sabWoTa kavSirSi, komunistebis

zeobis dros, isini

aiZula, SeecvalaT saarCevno

kodeqsi da 1990 wels Caatara

pirveli mravalpartiuli da

`partiebis gamsxvileba xelovnurad da maTraxiT warmoudgenlad mimaCnia,

magram saqmes ase sWirdeba. ramdenime msxvili partia ufro mimzidvels

gagvxdis amomrCevlis TvalSi. saeleqtorato bazari amas pirdapir

gvkarnaxobs. magaliTad aviRoT `lelo~ da `strategia aRmaSenebeli~. am or

partias Soris, faqtobrivad, aranairi gasxvaveba ar aris. maTi erT

partiaSi gaerTianeba moqalaqeebs ufro gamoiyvans arCevnebze~

demokratiuli arCevnebi.

_ aseTi demokratiuli arC-

evnebi saqarTveloSi aRar

Catarebula.

_ iyo kidev erTi aseTive demokratiuli

arCevnebi. esec gamsaxurdias

saxels ukavSirdeba.

oRond es arCevnebi Catarda ma-

Sin, roca zviad gamsaxurdia

ukve xelisufali iyo. vgulisxmob

TviTmmarTvelobis

arCevnebs. maSindel xelisuflebas

arCevnebis gayalbeba ar ucdia.

yvelaferi ise iyo, rogorc

saqarTvelos mosaxleobam gadawyvita.

maSin me respublikur

partiaSi viyavi.

_ respublikelebi gamsaxurdiasTan

Tavidanve dapirispire-

buli iyaviT.

_ ase gamovida. 1991 wels gamsaxurdia

da misi „mrgvali magida”

mTel qveyanaSi dominirebda.

Cven baTumSi, xelvaCaursa da

mimdebare teritoriebze „mrgval

magidas” arCevnebi movugeT.

imitom ar mogvigia, rom Zalian

Zlierebi varT. movigeT imitom,

rom amomrCeveli aRmoCnda

Zlieri. Cveni gamarjveba gamsaxurdias

siZlieremac ganapiroba.

rodesac man arCevnebis Sedegebi

gaigo. Tqva, _ mere ra, Tu

romelime sakrebuloSi sxva partia

iqneba dominantio. Cven ama-

Sic unda mivbaZoT gamsaxurdias

da imaSic, rom saqarTvelos

masStabiT CavataroT patar-patara

aqciebi. modiT, es aqciebi

daviwyoT axmetidan.

_ raRac xSirad axsenebT

axmetas da ra xdeba?

_ axmetaSi myavs Zmakaci, is

aris opoziciis mxardamWeri. mas

Zalian unda, rom TbilisSi gamarTul

aqciebSi miiRos monawileoba,

magram ver Camodis, radgan

fuli ar aqvs. saqarTvelo-

Si Zalian bevri adamiania ufulod.

TbilisSi rom Camoxvide

aqciaze, Ramis gasaTevic xom ginda,

sadac daiZineb da elementarulad

Tavs moiwesrigeb?

unda gavacnobieroT, rom xalxi

ìvaniSvils, am putinis monasa da Snirs,

araqaTi unda gamovacaloT. es is kacia,

romelic ase momwonda 2012 wlis pirvel

oqtombramde da axla yvelaze metad mZuls~

ufulobis gamo ver modis TbilisSi

aqciebze. amitom Cven unda

viaroT regionebSi da adgilze

CavataroT aqciebi. saqarTveloSi

50-60 gamokveTili

opoziciuri lideria, isini unda

wavideT regionebSi. amiT

qveynis masStabiT Cveni cnobadobac

gaizrdeba.

_ es aqciebi xalxmravali ar

iqneba.

_ mere ra? gamsaxurdias mier

regionebSi gamarTuli aqciebic

ar iyo xalxmravali, magram man

am aqciebiT SeuZlebeli SeZlo

da komunistebs saarCevno kodeqsi

Seacvlevina. Cvenc unda

wavideT regionebSi. 200 lokacia

mainc unda SevqmnaT saqarTveloSi.

erT lokacias 50 policieli

meurve xom mainc dasWirdeba.

_ SeiZleba, metic gamoiy-

vanon.

_ es im SemTxvevaSi, Tu Cvens

darbevas gadawyveten. marto

wesrigis dacva Tu iqneba mizani,

50 policielic sakmarisia.

ivaniSvils, am putinis monasa da

Snirs, araqaTi unda gamovacaloT.

es is kacia, romelic ase momwonda

2012 wlis pirvel oqtombramde

da axla yvelaze metad

mZuls. ivaniSvili putinis Sniri

rom ar iyos, is cixidan gamouSvebda

nika melias, romelic

iq mxolod imitom zis, rom saqarTveloSi

gavrilovis Camosvla

gaaprotesta. melias dakavebiT

saqarTveloSi mteri Seagulianes.

ivaniSvili aris sazizRari.

man yvela is lideri daakava,

vinc gavrilovis Rames aqtiurobda.

jer irakli oqruaSvili

daiWira, mere gigi ugulava

miayola, axla nika melia gau-

Sva cixeSi. im orsac ar gamouSvebda,

magram maT dakavebas msoflioSi

Zalian didi rezonansi

mohyva da salome zurabiSvils

uTxres, Seewyalebina isini. nika

melia Tu ver gamoviyvaneT da

ivaniSvili gamagrda, iraklisa

da gigis cixceSi Seabruneben.

_ raRaze Seabruneben, xom

axexines gavrilovis gamo cixe?

_ es ivaniSvilisTvis sakmarisi

ar aris. kidev unda daisajon.

unda daisajon imisTvis, rom

gabedes da protesti gamoTqves.

ivaniSvili yvelaferze midis.

mas arafris eSinia, arc xelisuflebis

dakargvis, arc sanqciebs

da qonebis dayadaReba

aSinebs, mas mxolod putinis eSinia.

es SiSi mis tvinSia Camjdari

da verafers uxerxebs.

es SiSi rom ar hqondes, maSin

adgeboda da nika melias gamouSvebda.

ar dagvaviwydes, rom mTeli

dasavleTi iTxovs mis cixidan

gamoSvebas. ivaniSvili amas

ver akeTebs, radgan es ruseTis

imperiis winaaRmdeg wasvlas ni-

Snavs. amas is verasdros gabedavs.

is aris putinis mona da is

xelisuflebidan unda gavuSvaT.

_ gasaSvebi rom aris, amaze

yvela TanxmdebiT, magram rom

ver uSvebT?

_ ver vuSvebT. CaSlilma molaparakebebmac

daamtkica, rom

molaparakebebiT misi gaSveba

warmoudgenelia. reJimi molaparakebebiT

ar icvleba. aqamde

Tavs vikavebdi da axla ukve SemiZlia

Riad vTqva, rom am molaparakebebis

yovelTvis naklebad

mjeroda. aseve naklebad mjeroda

TalakvaZisa da axlad gamoCekili

politikosisa, irakli

kobaxiZe rom hqvia. samagierod,

mjera saqarTvelos moqalaqeebis.

_ saqarTvelos moqalaqeebis

ratom gjeraT?

_ amxela zewolis, terorisa

da mosyidvis cdunebis miuxedavad,

saqarTvelos moqalaqeebi

arCevnebze wavidnen da „qarTul

ocnebas” uari uTxres. es ar

aris patara saqme. amitom, isev

da isev, didi madloba maT!

yovelTvis vityvi, rom maTi imedi

maqvs.

_ molaparakebebis naklebad

mjerodao. fiqrobT, rom xelisuflebasTan

molaparakebe-

bi Secdoma iyo?

_ Secdoma ar iyo, esec unda

gvecada. Tundac imitom, rom

davrwmunebuliyaviT, ivaniSvili

molaparakebebis gziT ar wava.

saWiroa aqciebi.

_ molaparakebebis gamo

opoziciam ramdenjerme gadado

daanonsebuli aqciebi. arc es

aris Secdoma?

_ vfiqrob, es gzac unda gagvevlo

da molaparakebebi dagvewyo.

sxva Tu araferi, Suamavlebi

Cveni dasavleli partniorebi

iyvnen. maT iTxoves, dasxediT

molaparakebebzeo. maTi

xaTriT magidis ayiraveba ar

gamodioda. maT dRe da Rame iSromes

imisTvis, rom raRac Sedegi

migveRo. ivaniSvilisTvis

marTla rames rom niSnavdes es

qveyana, is nika melias giraos

piradad gadaixdida.

_ nika melia ar dasTanmxde-

boda amas.

_ vici, rom ar dasTanxmdeboda,

magram es CaiTvleboda ivaniSvilis

keTil nebad. is ityoda,

me ar msurs qveynis polarizeba

da amitom vixdi nika melias

giraoso. amis gakeTebac ki ver

gabeda. ivaniSvili putinis monaa

da ar SeiZleba, qveyanas mona

marTavdes.

15

vin ufro prorusulia _

gaxaria Tu RaribaSvili? ra

davaleba miiRo grigol vaSa-

Zem moskovidan? risgan ixsna

saqarTvelo keli degnanma? ra

problemebi SeeqmnebaT „oc-

nebasa” da saakaSvils baidenis

gamo? _ am Temebis Sesaxeb mir-

ian mirianaSvili „qronika+”-s

esaubreba:

_ sazogadoebis did nawils

sjeroda, rom dasavleTis

CarTulobiT gamarTuli molaparakebebi

umravlesobaopozicias

Soris Sedegs gam-

oiRebda. Tqven ra molodini

gqondaT?

_ aranair Sedegs ar velodi

da amisTvis sakmarisi argumentebic

mqonda. dasavleTidan da

ruseTidan wamosuli dakveTebi

erTmaneTisgan radikalurad

gansxvavdeba. Cvens politikur

speqtrs moskovi destabilizacias

ukveTs, dasavleTs ki unda,

rom saqarTveloSi simSvide

iyos. arCevnebis Semdeg „qronika+”-sTan

interviuSi vTqvi,

rom saqarTveloSi revolucia

mzaddeboda. es scenari amerikelebma

CaSales, rac ar yofila

spontanuri gadawyvetileba.

amerika amisTvis karga xniT

adre emzadeboda. da Zalian kargia,

rom isini amisTvis mzad

iyvnen. vaSingtoni rom ara, axla

saqarTveloSi qaosi iqneboda.

_ didi xniT adre ratom

emzadebodnen? winaswar said-

an icodnen, rom aq movlenebi

revoluciuri scenariT unda

ganviTarebuliyo? iqneb, opozicia

imarjvebda arCevneb-

Si? arsebobda ki saerTod es

revoluciuri scenari?

_ sakmaod seriozuli revoluciuri

scenari arsebobda.

da amis Sesaxeb vaSingtoni

arCevnebamde iyo informirebuli.

saparlamento arCevnebis

safarqveS rom farTomasStabiani

revolucia mzaddeboda,

amas xvdeboda yvela, visac

politteqnologiebis rame gaegeba.

mosalodneli revoluciis

Sesaxeb amerikelebs konkretuli

informaciebic hqondaT.

es sakmaod sajaro moxmarebis

produqti iyo. amerikelebma

Tavidanve gadawyvites, rom saqarTveloSi

revoluciuri scenaris

legitimacias ar Seuwyobdnen

xels. vaSingtonSi Zalian

kargad icodnen, ra Sedegebi

mohyveboda revolucias da

vin iyo misi avtori.

16


`saakaSvilma partia ivaniSvilis

„qarTul ocnebasa” da opozi-

Sorena marsagiSvili

cias Soris gamarTuli molapar-

599 92 16 22

akebebi rom uSedego iqneboda,

amaSi bevri iyo darwmunebuli.

erT-erTi maTgani, visac molaparakebebis ar sjeroda, mirian

mirianaSvili gaxldaT. „nacionaluri moZraobis” damfuZnebe-

li miiCnevs, rom amerikam saqarTveloSi revolucia CaSala

da amiT Cvens qveyanas areuloba aacila Tavidan. misive TqmiT,

opoziciis ukan kremlis aCrdili moCans. moskovis mimarT

gulgrili arc xelisuflebaa. mirianaSvili darwmunebulia,

rom saqarTvelos xelisuflebas baidenis lanZRvis gamo auci-

leblad mosTxovs vaSingtoni pasuxs.

sabednierod, saqarTveloSi

revolucia CaiSala, magram opozicia

parlamentSi veRar Sedis,

rom kanonSemoqmedebiTi

samuSaoebi ganaxorcielos. xazgasmiT

vambob, rom isini parlamentSi

ver Sedian.

_ ratom fiqrobT, rom ver

Sedian? iqneb, ar Sedian?

_ Sesvla undaT, magram ver

Sedian. imitom ver Sedian, rom

im xalxs, vinc am marionetebs

marTavda, Tvisobrivad sxva

gegmebi aqvs, vidre evropasa da

amerikas. maT surT, rom saqar-

Tvelo permanentulad destabilizaciis

reJimSi iyos. revolucia

imisTvis ar iyo navaraudevi,

rom miSa saakaSvili da

„nacmoZraoba” mosuliyvnen xelisuflebaSi.

revolucia unda

momxdariyo imitom, rom saqar-

TveloSi yofiliyo qaosi. ruseTs

ar awyobs Cvens qveyanaSi

simSvide da stabiluroba. Cven

axla imis Sedegebs vimkiT, rac

gasuli wlis noemberSi arCevnebis

Semdeg davTeseT.

dRes rom saqarTveloSi qaosi

ar aris, es amerikis elCis

damsaxurebaa. keli degnanma

yvelaferi gaakeTa, rom saqar-

TveloSi revoluciis legitimacia

ar daSvebuliyo. movlenebi

rusuli gegmis mixedviT

rom ganviTarebuliyo, axla saqarTvelo

srul qaosSi iqneboda.

_ Tqven TqviT, amerikelebma

icodnen, aq rom revolucia

igegmeboda da mis CasaSlelad

emzadebodneno. rusebma, romlebic,

Tqveni TqmiT, revol-

uciis ukan idgnen, ar icodnen,

rom vaSingtoni maTi gegmebis

CaSlas apirebda? an ar ivaraudes

mainc, rom TeTri saxli

maTi scenaris CaSlas Se-

ecdeboda?

_ ruseTis dazvreva kargad

muSaobs. moskovma mSvenivrad

icoda, rom vaSingtoni revoluciis

legitimacias ar

dauSvebda. amis miuxedavad, ar

gaCerdnen da rogorc ityvian

xolme, gazs fexi miaWires. amboben,

maT donald trampTan

hqondaT komunikacia da Ti-

Tqos iyo kidevac SeTanxmeba,

rom saqarTveloSi dRes imis

sapirispiro viTareba unda yofiliyo,

vidre dRes aris.

_ trampi saqarTveloSi rev-

oluciis momxre iyo?

_ ase xelaRebiT amis Tqma ar

SeiZleba. trampi prezidentad

rom aerCiaT, vaSingtons Sesa-

mirian

mirianaSvili:

`grigol vaSaZe

`nacmoZraobis~

Tavmjdomareobidan

ruseTis brZanebiT

gadadga~

Zloa, aq revoluciis legitimaciisTvis

daeWira mxari. rogorc

ukve aRvniSne, aris informacia,

rom rusebs am Temaze

trampis garemocvasTan raRac

komunikacia hqondaT. amerikam

prezidentad jo baideni air-

Cia. moskovis erT-erTi koziri

gaiWra da axla gvaqvs dRevandeli

mocemuloba.

es sakmaod Rrma procesia da

amaze ase martivad ver visaubrebT.

am ambavs erTi kargi Sedegic

mohyva: Cveni politikuri

partiebi cota azrze movidnen.

isini acnobiereben, rom msoflioSi

ZalTa balansi Seicvala

da ruseTi aRar aris is, rac

iyo adre. imasac kargad xvdebian,

rom saqarTvelos mimarT

aSS-is interesebi Zalian maRalia.

maT procesSi CarTes evropa.

Cvenma politikosebma Tavis

momavals gadaxedes, romelic

rusebis gamarjvebis pirobebSi

garantirebuli hqondaT.

_ konkretulad, ra hqondaT

garantirebuli?

_ komfortuli cxovreba da

fsevdopolitikuri saqmianoba.

am procesebSi CarTuli qarTveli

politikosebisTvis mTavari

axla parlamentSi Sesvla

ar gaxlavT. maT surT, rom warsulidan

momavalSi bileTi

miiRon. am bileTis gamomweri

ki mxolod amerikis saelCoa.

axla eseni yvelafers akeTeben

imisTvis, rom rusebis TvalSi

alibi Seiqmnan.

_ ra alibze saubrobT? vin

unda Seuqmnas maT es alibi?

_ didi survili aqvT, rom

alibis SeqmnaSi dasavleTi daexmaros.

sanam am procesebSi monawile

opozicia dasavleTidan

ar miiRebs ultimatums, isini

parlamentSi ruseTis SiSiT

ver Sevlen. ramdenadac CemTvis

aris cnobili, rigi opozicionerebi

dasavleTs kuluarulad

sTxoven, ruseTis dasanaxad

ultimatumi wamogviyeneT,

sxvanairad parlamentSi ver

`dRes rom saqarTveloSi qaosi ar aris, es

amerikis elCis damsaxurebaa. keli degnanma

yvelaferi gaakeTa, rom saqarTveloSi

revoluciis legitimacia ar daSvebuliyo.

movlenebi rusuli gegmis mixedviT rom

ganviTarebuliyo, axla saqarTvelo srul

qaosSi iqneboda~

SevdivarTo. dasavleTi ultimatumis

wayenebaze uars ambobs.

amiT, cota ar iyos, xelisuflebac

gakvirvebulia.

_ „qarTul ocnebas” raRa

akvirvebs?

_ dasavleTi aseTi doziT

aris CarTuli mxareebs Soris

molaparakebebSi, magram maTi

mxridan wamosul SeTavazebebs

ultimatumis saxe ar aqvs. isini

mxolod rekomendaciebs iZlevian.

dasavleTi ultimatumis

eniT saubarze erTi mizeziT

ambobs uars _ mas surs, rom

qarTvelma politikosebma antirusuli

nabiji sakuTari

nebiT gadadgan.

_ Tqven gindaT TqvaT, rom

opozicia ruseTis TamaSs TamaSobs

da xelisuflebas prodasavluri

kursi aqvs aRebu-

li?

_ amis Tqma ar minda. xelisuflebaSi

Zalian bevria iseTi,

romelsac ruseTTan aqvs pirdapiri

bma. am SemTxvevaSi opoziciaze

mxolod imitom vamaxvileb

yuradRebas, rom is aris

winaaRmdegobis mamoZravebeli.

aseTi mosazreba maqvs, rom

dasavleTs unda, opoziciam

sakuTari nebiT Seaqcios zurgi

ruseTs. Semdeg viRac-viRacebs

Tavad gausworon angari-

Si da amiT politikuri veli

gaaTavisuflon.

_ angariSis gasworebaSi ras

gulisxmobT?

_ politikuri velidan gayvanas.

_ es politikuri veli

risTvis an visTvis unda gan-

Tavisufldes?

_ imisTvis unda ganTavisufldes,

rom aq axali politikuri

procesebi daiwyos. sinamdvileSi,

aq sul sxva realoba

gvaqvs da ara is, romelsac

sazogadoeba uyurebs.

_ ra realobaze saubrobT?

_ rac dRes xdeba, es ar aris

„qarTuli ocnebisa” da opoziciis

dapirispireba. dRes saqarTveloSi

rusuli da amerikuli

politteqnologiebis brZolaa

gaCaRebuli. am brZolaSi

saqarTvelos interesebs icavs

amerikis elCi keli degnani.

16 N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.


tad, es ambebi amerikam kargad

icis. es yvelaferi julianis

dagegmili iyo, romelic nomer

pirvel mafiozad miiCneva. is

aris trampis advokati. miSas

ramdenime saidumlo Sexvedra

hqonda julianisTan. amis Semdeg

is poroSenkos gadauxta da

quCidan revoluciis mowyobas

upirebda. arada, poroSenko

iyo is kaci, vinc saqarTvelodan

gaqceuli miSa Seifara da

odesis gubernatorad daniSna.

Tqven ra ggoniaT, ukrainaSi

saakaSvili qvafenilze rom Camojda,

sakuTari iniciativiT

moiqca ase? mas sakmaod seriozul

ZalebTan hqonda komunikacia.

maTi mxardaWeris gareSe

is poroSenkos winaaRmdeg ar

wavidoda. mas sakmaod kargad

vicnob da amitom vambob amas.

is ambebi, rac man ramdenime

wlis winaT ukrainaSi daatriala,

Zalian cudad daxvdeba win.

es misTvis SeiZleba, didi pro-

daxmarebiT wamarTva~

yvela sxva saqarTvelos interesebis

mTavari damcvelis oponentia.

ubralod, formebi da

masStabebia sxvadasxva. am procesebze

saubrisas gverds verafriT

avuvliT gaxarias Temas

da mis gadadgomas premierobidan.

gaxarias mier politikuri

partiis Seqmna pirdapir

jdeboda rusul scenarSi.

bolo 30 wlis ganmavlobaSi saqarTvelos

xelisuflebaSi gaxarias

msgavsi prorusuli figura

ar yofila. gaxarias partiis

Seqmnis Temaze biZina ivaniSvilTan

seriozuli saubari

iyo da es gegmac CaiSala.

_ Cven gvaqvs informacia,

rom is aqtiurad muSaobs axa-

li partiis Seqmnaze.

_ SeiZleba muSaobs. mis mier

partiis Seqmnas eWvis TvaliT

vuyureb. axla saqarTveloSi

stabilurobis garantad RaribaSvili

CaiTvala. amerikelebma

is warudgines evropas. ramdenadac

vici, evropaSi misi personiT

ukmayofilo ar arian.

_ kmayofilebi riT arian?

_ dasavleTs aq surda, rom

teqnikuri premieri yofiliyo.

am funqcias, savaraudod, RaribaSvili

ganaxorcielebs. aris

aseTi gegma, rom „qarTuli

ocneba” gadakeTdes RaribaSvilis

partiad. rusebs surdaT,

rom „ocneba” gaxarias partiad

gadaqceuliyo.

_ iqneb, piriqiTaa da rusebs

undaT, rom „ocneba” RaribaSvilis

partia iyos? mis sa-

xels bevri rusuli skandali

ukavSirdeba. davijero, dasav-

leTma es ar icis?

_ dasavleTma SesaniSnavad

icis am skandalebis Sesaxeb, magram

axla saqmes ase sWirdeba.

saqarTveloSi balansis dacva

sxvanairad Zalian rTuli iqneba.

„nacionaluri moZraoba” da

masze Camokidebuli opozicia

aseT mZime dReSi rom aris, es

didwilad saakaSvilisa da misi

ukrainuli keisis bralia.

_ gindaT TqvaT, rom saakaS-

vili Rupavs „nacmoZraobas”?

_ saakaSvilma ukve daRupa

„nacionaluri moZraoba”. „nacionalurma

moZraobam”, Tavis

mxriv, gadaiyola masze Camokidebuli

patar-patara partiebi.

daimaxsovreT Cemi sityvebi:

uaxloes momavalSi saakaSvils

ukrainuli keisi Zalian seriozul

problemebs Seuqmnis. seriozuli

problemebi Seeqmneba

„qarTul ocnebasac” da es

problemebi amerikis saprezidento

arCevnebTan iqneba dakavSirebuli.

Cveni xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebi Riad uWerdnen

mxars tramps.

_ amis gamo dasjis maT vaS-

ingtoni? xalxi socialur

qselSi werda, tramps vuWerT

mxarso. vis dauWeren mxars, es

maTi uflebaa.

_ amis gamo maT aravin mosTxovs

pasuxs. socialur qseleb-

Si ras weren qarTveli Cinosnebi,

es amerikas ar ainteresebs.

maTTvis mTavari isaa, rom

am procesebSi aTeulobiT aTasi

qarTveli CaiTries, romlebic

amerikis moqalaqeebi arian.

isini aqtiurad monawileobdnen

baidenis lanZRva-ginebaSi.

es amerikis arCevnebSi uxe-

Si Carevaa. es maTi kanonmdeblobiT

sakmaod seriozuli dana-

Saulia. ramdenadac vici, „qar-

Tuli ocnebis” liderebi cdiloben,

amerikas xma miawvdinon

da daumtkicon, rom maT aranairi

kavSiri ar aqvT imasTan,

aTeulobiT aTasi amerikis eTnikurad

qarTveli moqalaqe

baidens rom aginebda. baidenis

gamo miSa saakaSvilsac mosTxoven

pasuxs.

_ saakaSvils ratom mosTx-

oven pasuxs?

_ saakaSvils baidenis winaa-

Rmdeg aranaklebi roli aqvs

naTamaSebi, oRond ukrainaSi.

poroSenko rom gadaagdes da

zelenski moiyvanes preziden-

N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

ìm asakSi aRar var, vinmes Tavi davaWerinoo. raki grigol vaSaZe amaze ar

dasTanxmda, gadadgoma mosTxoves da isic gadadga. partiam Tavmjdomared

nika melia airCia, romelmac am garigebis Sesaxeb araferi icoda. amaSi

darwmunebuli var~

`gaxarias mier politikuri partiis Seqmna

pirdapir jdeboda rusul scenarSi. bolo 30

wlis ganmavlobaSi saqarTvelos

xelisuflebaSi gaxarias msgavsi prorusuli

figura ar yofila. gaxarias partiis Seqmnis

Temaze biZina ivaniSvilTan seriozuli

saubari iyo da es gegmac CaiSala~

blema gaxdes. am qeisiT is qar-

Tul politikaSi aqtiurad ve-

Rar CaerTveba.

_ momavalSi ra iqneba, ar

viciT, magram aqamde is kargad

erTveboda saqarTveloSi mimdinare

politikur proceseb-

Si.

_ erTveboda da swored eg

aris „nacionaluri moZraobisa”

da masze Camokidebuli

patar-patara opoziciuri partiebis

udidesi problema.

_ problema ratom aris?

bevri „nacionalur moZraobas”

saakaSvilis gamo uWers mxars.

_ ufro bevri saakaSvilis

gamo gamodis am partiis winaaRmdeg.

es mSvenivrad icis miSam,

magram mainc ar Caexsna „nacionalur

moZraobas” da Tavis

ambiciebs gadaayola partia.

misgan sxvas arc velodi, is arasdros

gamoirCeoda keTilgonierebiT.

amerikelebma „ocnebaze”

rom moaxdines dRes fokusireba,

es Tavidan bolomde

miSas faqtoris damsaxurebaa.

_ ivaniSvilisa da saakaSvilis

TanamSromlobaze ra azris

xarT? isini wlebis man-

Zilze erTad iyvnen da rog-

orc amboben, maTi TanamSrom-

loba axlac grZeldeba.

_ ar gamovricxav. maT Tanam-

Sromlobasa da urTierTobebze

sakuTari azri maqvs. miSa saakaSvilma,

Tavis droze, partia

ivaniSvilis fuliT da daxmarebiT

wamarTva. es gadmocemiT ki

ar vici, man piradad miTxra.

_ aris aseTi mosazreba, rom

nika melias daWera maTi SeTanxmeba

iyo. nika melia „nacionaluri

moZraobis” Tavmj-

domared arc erTs awyobda da

arc _ meores. am versiaze

Tqven ras ityviT?

_ yvelaferi SesaZlebelia,

magram ara mgonia, maT Soris am

Temaze rame SeTanxmeba yofiliyo.

saakaSvili nika melias ar

miiCnevs im figurad, rom am

Temaze ivaniSvilTan ewarmoebina

molaparakebebi.

_ ratom ar miiCnevs? nika

melia partiis Tavmjdomared

partiis wevrebma airCies da am

arCevnebSi man saakaSvilis mx-

ardaWeril kandidat levan

varSalomiZes ajoba.

_ gasagebia, magram es ar aris

imis mizezi, rom am Temaze

biZina ivaniSvilTan garigebaze

wasuliyo. partiis Tavmjdomareobaze

vsaubrobT da aranakleb

sainteresoa „nacionaluri

moZraobis” yofil Tavmjdomare

grigol vaSaZis sakiTxi.

_ grigol vaSaZis Tema

marTla sainteresoa. adamiani

moulodnelad wavida partiis

Tavmjdomareobodan da erTi

sityvac ki ar dascdenia misi

memkvidris dakavebaze. arc

partiis ofisis darbevaze

amouRia xma.

_ Tqvens mkiTxvels mis gadadgomasTan

dakavSirebiT eqskluziuri

informacia minda mivawodio:

batoni grigol vaSaZe

partia „nacionaluri moZraobis”

Tavmjdomaris postidan

Tavad ar gadamdgara. es gadawyvetileba

mas sakuTari nebiT

ar miuRia.

_ aiZules?

_ mosTxoves, rom gadamdgariyo.

_ vin mosTxova?

_ ruseTma.

_ ratom?

_ situacias sWirdeboda ase.

moskovma grigol vaSaZes gadadgoma

mas Semdeg mosTxova,

rac aq revoluciuri scenari

Cavarda.

_ vaSaZes abralebdnen am

scenaris Cagdebas?

_ ara. revoluciuri scenaris

Cagdebis Semdeg kremlma gadawyvita,

vaSaZe ganze gaeyvana.

„nacionaluri moZraobis” Tavmjdomared

axal kadrs airCevdnen

da amiT es partia amerikis

yuradRebas miipyrobda. amis

Semdeg unda daekavebinaT lideri.

Tavidan es varianti grigol

vaSaZes SesTavazes, magram

is am SeTavazebas ar dasTanxmda.

arada, hqonda garantiebi,

rom cixidan male gamoiyvandnen.

_ ramden xanSi unda gamoey-

vanaT?

_ sadRac, erT TveSi.

_ ratom ar dasTanxmda?

_ Tqva, me im asakSi aRar var,

vinmes Tavi davaWerinoo. raki

grigol vaSaZe amaze ar das-

Tanxmda, gadadgoma mosTxoves

da isic gadadga. partiam Tavmjdomared

nika melia airCia,

romelmac am garigebis Sesaxeb

araferi icoda. amaSi darwmunebuli

var.

_ grigol vaSaZis dumilze

ras fiqrobT? erTi-ori sityviT

mainc daegmo melias da-

patimreba.

_ grigol vaSaZes amaze davaleba

ar hqonda miRebuli da

magitom ar gaakeTa aranairi

gancxadeba. partiis Tavmjdomareobasac

imitom daeTanxma,

rom es iyo misi politikuri

davaleba. es davaleba ruseTidan

modioda. is ise dasves am

postze, rom arc ki hkiTxes,

surda Tu ara mas partiis Tavmjdomareoba.

misgan tyuilad

elodebiT rame gancxadebas.

batoni grigoli mxolod maSin

alaparakdeba, roca ruseTi

daavalebs.

17

ufro konkretulad ki, „arqi

jgufis” sacxovrebel korpus-

Si, romlis misamarTia polikarpe

kakabaZis #2, tardeboda

ezos keTilmowyobis samuSaoebi,

maT Soris, kanalizaciis milebis

gayvana, ris gamoc, mezobeli

korpusis mcxovreblebma

iCivles. erT-erTma ki, „qronika+~-is

informaciiT, qeTevan

kapanaZem, 2020 wlis SemodgomiT,

sacxovrebeli binis ezoSi

prezidenti aRniSnuli samuSaoebis

SeCerebis mizniT, sacxovrebeli

korpusis ezoSi miiyvana.

„arqis” mcxovreblebis

TqmiT, prezidentis misvlis

Semdeg samuSaoebi Sewyda da ar

dasrulebula.

„qronika+~-ma moipova fotomasala,

romliTac dasturdeba,

rom prezidenti zurabiSvili

namdvilad imyofeboda sacxovrebeli

korpusis ezoSi.

korpusis mcxovreblebs pretenziebi

aqvT „arqi jgufis”

misamarTiTac.

salome mWedliZis TqmiT, mas

rom scodnoda, aseTi pirobebi

iqneboda, iq binas ar SeiZenda:

„me bina 2017 wels SeviZine,

sul sxva pirobebiT viyide.

patara bavSvi myavs da ase iyo

gaTvlili, rom keTilmowyobili

ezo iqneboda. 2019 wlis

oqtomberSi gadmovedi sacxovreblad.

Cemi pretenziaa, rom

milebidan Jonavs wyali da ar

akeTeben. SeiZleba, es korpusi

Tavze Camomengras. wylis gamo

iseTi sunia, rom fanjaras ver

vaReb saZinebelsa da misaRebSi.

metic: zafxulSi aivanze ver

vsxdebiT sunis gamo. aseve saSineli

antisanitariaa, virTxebi

darbian. elitaruli korpusi

viyide, radgan marTla megona,

rom saswaul korpusSi vicxovrebdi

da realurad saRore-

Si aRmovCndi. „arqis” sxva koprusebi

ar mainteresebs, me sadac

gadavixade Tanxa, is unda

Cambardes. kompaniis warmomadgenlebi

2020 wlis noembris

dasawyisSi movidnen da Segvpirdnen,

rom Tvis bolomde

daiwyebdnen samuSaoebs da erT

TveSi daasrulebdnen, Tumca

piroba pirobad darCa. aseve

manqana myavs da farexis SeZena

minda, Tumca azri ar aqvs, radgan

avtofarexiT mcxovreblebi

ver sargebloben. me rom mcodnoda,

aseTi pirobebi iqneboda,

am binas ar SeviZendi. rogorc

ki salome zurabiSvili gamoCndeba

adgilze, Sewydeba samuSaoebi.

prezidenti dadis saqmis

gasarCevad, gaiyvanon Tu ara

ezoSi kanalizacia. ufro konkretulad,

sxva korpusis mezoblebma

iCivles, rom ar gaeyvanaT

kanalizacia, maT moiyvanes

zurabiSvili 2020 wlis Semodgomaze,

ris Semdegac es samuSaoebi

gaCerda. viTxovT, rom

18


`prezidenti saqmis gasarCevad dadis~

nene injgia

ra 591 71 39 98 „prezidenti saqmis gasarCevad

dadis, gaiyvanon Tu ara ezoSi kanalizacia”,

_ acxadebs „qronika+~-sTan

„arqi jgufis” mcxovre-

bi salome mWedliZe.

droze moawesrigon”, _ ambobs

salome mWedliZe.

erT-erTi mcxovrebi, darejan

foCxua, ambobs, rom avtofarexiT

ver sargeblobs da kompaniisgan

iTxovs mieces saku-

Tari qonebiT sargeblobis ufleba:

„Tavdapirvelad aq iyo italiuri

ezo, sadac 7 mesakuTre

vcxovrobdiT. es adgili 2007

wels Seisyida samSeneblo kompaniam,

2008 wels daiwyes sam-

Seneblo samuSaoebi da Cven

qiras gvixdidnen. Tavdapirvelad

muSaobda „Tbilisi eqskluzivi”,

romelmac mSenebloba

sxva kompanias gadaabara, sabolood

ki „arqi jgufi” iyo meo-

Txe kompania, romelmac gaagr-

Zela mSenebloba. ukve 9 welia,

rac „arqi jgufia” investori.

2019 wels Cagvbarda binebi,

Tumca xarvezebiT. maT Soris

aris yvelaze mniSvnelovani is,

rom Cems SemTxvevaSi elementaruli

fanjara ar aris samzareulos

oTaxSi, romelsac gasaniaveblad

gamoviyenebT, am mizeziT

gazs ar mirTaven, radgan

gadmokideba ar aqvs kars evrostandartis

mixedviT, maTi gakeTebuli

kari ki pirdapir iReba.

rogorc kompaniaSi gveubnebian,

maSin, roca am binebs

aSenebdnen, evrogaReba ar iyo

gaTvaliswinebulio. maT vTxove,

rom TavianTi Secdoma gamoesworebinaT,

Tumca ar gai-

Tvaliswines. me piradad ar

maqvs amis saSualeba, rom es

gavakeTo, 300 dolari sWirdeba.

ver vsargeblob gaTbobiT

da, faqtobrivad, siciveSi miwevs

jdoma, roca aq movdivar.

garda amisa, ver viyenebT

avtofarexs, amoqolilia is

adgili, saidanac avtofarexSi

unda SevideT _ teritoriaze,

ra gziTac manqanebi unda Sevidnen

avtofarexSi, korpusSi

Semosasvleli kibea. im SemTxvevaSi

SevZlebT avtofarexis

gamoyenebas, Tuki am kibes gaauqmeben

an panduss daamateben.


droebiTi kibe gaakeTes da maTi

ra moxda

kakabaZis 2-Si?

TqmiT, mogvianebiT gadmogvcemen

avtofarexs. ras niSnavs

mogvianebiT gadmocema, jerjerobiT,

ver gavarkvieT. roca

am SemoTavazebas davTanxmdi da

mSenebloba daiwyo, maSin axalgazrda

viyavi, mas Semdeg 13

weli gavida da jer kidev ar

dausrulebiaT, davberdi amaT

lodinSi. Cveni qoneba droulad

gadmogvcen”.

mariam basilaSvilis TqmiT,

igi binas ver aqiravebs, radgan

qiraobis msurvelebi mouwesrigebeli

ezos gamo uars am-

boben:

„13 weli velodebodiT, rodis

damTavrdeboda, aqedan 9

weli „arqi jgufis” lodiSi

gavatareT, rodis daasrulebda

Cvens sacxovrebel adgils. roca

kompaniaSi miReba-Cabarebis

aqtze xelis mosawerad mivedi,

aqtSi Caweres, rom avtofarexi

mogvianebiT gadmogvecemoda,

konkretuli dro ar iyo miTiTebuli,

TavianT sasargeblod

aqvT Sedgenili. ori weli gavida

da dRemde ver vsargeblobT

Cveni kuTvnili qonebiT. maqvs

konkretuli kiTxvebi „arqi

jgufis” generalur direqtor-

Tan, rodis dasruldeba es

obieqti srulad, maT Soris,

ezo da ra aris realuri mizezi

imisa, ris gamoc ver asruleben?

sxvadasxva mizezs asaxeleben,

rom TiTqos xan mezobeli

Civis da xan meria gakeTebis

uflebas ar aZlevs. turistuli

zonaa da ezo saSinel mdgmareobaSia,

sadac xis sapirfareSo

dgas, kari saerTod

moglejilia, garda amisa, ezo-

Si wylis milebi gaskda, Jonavs

wyali da avtofarexebSi Cadis.


es problemac Cven unda movagvaroT.

maqvs meore bina da

msurs misi gaqiraveba, binis

klientebi rodesac modian, yvela

imas mekiTxeba, Tu rodis

mowesrigdeba ezo. mouwesrigebeli

ezos gamo binas ver vaqiravebT.

Cven viTxovT, „arqi

jgufis” warmomadgenlebi movidnen

da konkretulad gviTxran,

rodis daasruleben ezos

keTilmowyobas da rodis Sev-

ZlebT sakuTari avtofarexis

gamoyenebas? Tu am yvelafers

droulad ar gaakeTeben, maSin

sasamarTloSi SevitanT saCivars.

dagvxoces nerviulobiT,

am kompaniam Segviwira”.

„qronika+~ aRniSnul Temis

Sesaxeb „arqi jgufs” daukav-

Sirda da ganmarteba sTxova,

Tumca am dromde maTgan oficialuri

pasuxi ar migviRia.

rac Seexeba prezident

zurabiSvilis Carevas sam-

uSaoebis Sewyvetis nawilSi,

prezidentis pres-samsaxurma

kiTxvaze, _ adasturebs Tu ara

aRniSnul faqts prezidenti

zurabiSvili da ra ganmarte-

bas gaaakeTebs am sakiTxis

Sesaxeb, gvipasuxa: „prezidents

msgavsi uflebamosileba ar

gaaCnia”.

18 N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

Tamar rostiaSvili

577 10 07 06

sasjelaRsrulebis dawese-

bulebebidan ramdenime Tvis win ganTavisuflebuli eqimebi

sasamarTlo procesisTvis emzadebian. erT-erTi maTgani, me-

17, me-16 da me-5 sasjelaRsrulebis dawesebulebebis eqimi-

stomatologi eTer jorbenaZe, Tavis ganTavisuflebis

mizezad departamentis xelmZRvanelobis mxridan pirad an-

gariSsworebas miiCnevs.

amis Sesaxeb igi pirvelad

„qronika+~-sTan saubrobs:

_ 10 welia, sasjelaRsrulebis

saministros #17 dawesebulebis

samedicino punqtis eqimstomatologad

vmuSaob. am xnis

ganmavlobaSi erTxelac ar mimiRia

sayveduri, sityvieri gafrTxilebac

ar maxsovs. probaciisa

da sasjelaRsrulebis yofilma

ministrma, kaxi kaxiSvilma,

piradad gadamixada madloba

Cemi muSaobisTvis. 2019 wlis

noemberSi mTlian sistemaSi daCqarebuli

wesiT gamocxadda reorganizacia.

sam cixeSi erTdroulad

vmuSaobdi im period-

Si, Tumca Cemi ZiriTadi samuSao

adgili me-17 sasjelaRsrulebi-

alebac ar gvqonda. gasaubreba

Caatara departamentis xelmZRvanelma,

pirveli gamocda iyo

unar-Cvevebze da meore _ profesiuli.

oriveSi erTad miviRe 36

qula da es 50-qulian SkalaSi

cudi maCvenebeli namdvilad ar

iyo. noemberSi dawyebuli reorganizacia

unda dasrulebuliyo

dekemberSi, magram gagrZelda

Tu gadaido, ver gavigeT. 2020

wlis martSi, rogorc iqna, gasaubreba

dagveniSna iusticiis

ministr Tea wulukianTan.

_ riT dasrulda wulukian-

Tan gasaubreba?

_ piradad me am gasaubrebiT

Zalian kmayofili davrCi, Turme

sul tyuilad. amis Semdeg


gavaproteste es faqti, magram

administraciam miTxra, _ amaze

xma ar amoiRo, danamati geqnebao.

_ mogces danamati?

_ visac ekuTvnoda es danamati,

mas arasodes eZleoda, maT

Soris, arc me. StatSi viyavi da

sxva stomatologebi iyvnen xelSekrulebiT.

amasobaSi, ministrma

brZaneba gamosca, rom xelSekrulebiT

momuSaveni veRar

Sevidodnen cixis teritoriaze.

_ ratom?

_ epidemiologiuri situaciidan

gamomdinare, kovid 19 rom

ar gavrcelebuliyo. amitom me-5

dawesebulebaSi isedac viyavi da

me-6, me-7, me-12 sasjelaRsrulebis

dawesebulebebi darCnen

ustomatologod da maTi momsaxureba

damevala, vinaidan StatSi

erTaderTi me viricxebodi.

_ e. i. eqvs cixeSi erTdrou-

lad muSaobdiT, Tan danamatis

gareSe?

_ diax. pirvelad ki gavaproteste,

magram mere rogor amoviRebdi

xmas, rodesac pandemiis

nauri is gaxldaT, rom ramdenjerac

CvenTan vizitad imyofeboda

ministri anda departamentis

xelmZRvaneli, yovelTvis

saubari iyo Statebis ukmarisobaze.

departamentis xelmZRvaneli,

magaliTad, sul gvpirdeboda,

rom kadrebs dagimatebTo. me

piradad aravin damxmare ar myavda,

mxolod eqTani-asistenti.

sterilizaciasac me uzrunvelvyofdi.

_ konkretulad, romel ricxvSi

gagaTavisufles samsaxuri-

dan?

_ 2020 wlis 30 aprils. kidev

minda gavamaxvilo yuradReba im

faqtze, rom ra brZanebas movawereT

xeli, umetesobam ar vicodiT.

_ es Tqveni problemaa _ unda

wagekiTxaT, ras awerdiT xels...

_ uceb moiyvanes xalxi, gareT

gautanes sabuTebi da moawerines

xeli. ukve aprilSi, rodesac gan-

Tavisuflebis Sesaxeb gamogvicxades

am brZanebis safuZvelze,

didi wivil-kvili atyda _ Tan-

buli kontingentidan xelaxal

miRebaze gancxadeba arc erTma

ar dawera. me davwere me-19 sasjelaRsrulebaze

vakansia. gamocdebzec

ar gamomiZaxes. davreke

cxel xazze. gaiTvaliswineT, rom

iusticiaSi erTaderTi cxeli

xazi muSaobs, sxva nomerze ver

darekavT. iusticiis saministrodan

iciT. ra pasuxi miviRe?

rom me manamde warmatebiT Cavabare

gamocdebi da gamocdebze

ar daviSvebi, imitom rom iq monawileoba

aRar sWirdebao. miTxres,

rom damibarebdnen pirdapir

gasaubrebaze. erT dRes

migviyvanes yvela ganTavisuflebuli

samsaxuridan gasaubrebaze.

departamentis ufrosi ver Segvxvda,

rogorc Cans, uxerxulad

grZnobda Tavs, umizezod rom

gagvaTavisufla da dagvisva Tavisi

moadgile. am gasaubrebidan

erT kviraSi moadgilisgan momivida

werili, rom Tqven ver daakmayofileT

mesame etapio.

_ axla ra etapze xarT?

_ sasamarTlosTvis vapireb

cixis eqimi

departamentis

xelmZRvanelobas

TanamSromlebze pirad

angariSsworebaSi

adanaSaulebs

Ti dawesebuleba iyo. me-17-is

gverdiT mdebare me-16 sasjelaRsrulebiTi

dawesebuleba xu-

Ti wliT adre SeviTavse, Tumca

danamati erTxelac ar mimiRia.

gaiTvaliswineT, rom me-17 dawesebuleba

qveyanaSi erT-erTi yvelaze

mravalricxovani, 2000-patimriani

sistemuri erTeulia. am

masStabis mxolod gldani da

qsania. danarCeni dawesebuleba

250-350 patimrisgan Sedgeba. am

detalebs imitom geubnebiT, rom

minda, im datvirTvis xarisxi

warmoidginoT, rasac wlebis ganmavlobaSi

veweodi.

_ sistemuri reorganizacia

ras gulisxmobda?

_ dRemde ver gavigeT. Tavdapirvelad,

saswrafod gamomiZaxes

Cems ZiriTad samsaxurSi _ me-

17 dawesebulebaSi da momTxoves,

xeli momewera reorganizaciis

brZanebisTvis. xeli ise movawereT

yvelam, rom wesierad arc

gavcnobivarT teqsts. amis Semdeg

daiwyo sametapiani testireba,

saidanac ori etapi iyo gamocda

da erTi etapi _ gasaubreba.

brZanebaze xelis moweridan erT

kviraSi dagveniSna gamocdebi.

faqtobrivad, momzadebis saSu-

gavagrZele muSaoba. ZiriTad

StatSi viyavi, rogorc ukve mogaxseneT,

me-17 sasjelaRsrulebis

dawesebulebaSi, xuTi wlis

winaT SeviTavse me-16 sasjelaRsrulebis

dawesebuleba. arc erTsa

da arc meoreSi Cem garda

stomatologi ar Sedioda, garda

orTopedisa. 2020 wlis ianvridan

ki, vinaidan ganTavisuflda

me-5 sasjelaRsrulebis

dawesebulebaSi stomatologis

adgili, isic SemiTavses. mokled,

sam adgilze vmuSaobdi da davrbodi

iqiT-aqeT. maxsovs, rogor

pirobebSi es lamis Ralatad Cai-

Tvleboda. aqedan gamomdinare,

namdvilad ar velodi, rom aseT

saWiro TanamSromels 30 aprils,

samsaxurSi dilis konferenciaze

gamomicxadebdnen, rom meore

dRidan ganTavisuflebuli var

samsaxuridan.

_ mizezad ra dagisaxeles?

_ rom Semcireba Seexo mTeli

saqarTvelos masStabiT 165 TanamSromels,

maT Soris, Cveni

dawesebulebidan Svids. stomatologi

viyavi mxolod me, danarCeni

_ eqimebi da eqTnebi. uc-

`me-17 sasjelaRsrulebis dawesebulebaSi 30

TanamSromeli viyaviT da aqedan 20-ma

davwereT gancxadeba - protesti gamovTqviT

misi uxeSi da damamcirebeli damokidebuleb

ebis

gamo. es qalbatoni ar moxsnes, magram

gadaiyvanes me-7 sasjelaRsrulebis

dawesebulebaSi. am reorganizaciis Semdeg ukan

daabrunes da 20 kacidan, vinc mis winaaRmdeg

movawereT xeli, umetesoba gaaTavisufles. es

qalbatoni gaxlavT Tamar SurRaia da igi

departamentis xelmZRvanel TamTa

demuriSvilis axlobelia. me piradad amas

vukavSireb im terors, ris qveSac movyeviT~

amSromlebi tirodnen. visac saukeTeso

eqimebad da eqTnebad miviCnevdi,

isinic gaaTavisufles.

_ Tqvens adgilas vin moiyv-

anes?

_ me-6 dawesebulebaSi xelSekrulebiT

ayvanili stomatologi

aiZules, SeeTavsebina Cemi

adgili. rogorc vici, dRes iq

saSineli mdgomareobaa. gan-

Tavisuflebidan meore dResve

gancxadeba davwere ministr Tea

wulukianis saxelze. gasaCivrebis

vada erTi Tve iyo. am xnis

ganmavlobaSi velodebodi pasuxs,

romelic Tve-naxevari ar

movida. mpirdebodnen, rom samsaxurSi

damabrunebdnen xelSekrulebis

safuZvelze. ra Tqma

unda, momatyues. Sedegad, gasa-

Civrebis vada gamivida. 2020 wlis

oqtomberSi geninspeqciis saxelze

davwere gancxadeba, saidanac

igive pasuxi momivida. oqtomberSive

gamocxadda vakansiebi,

maT Soris, stomatologiaSi.

_ Tu stomatologs eZebdnen,

Tqven ratom gagiSves?

_ saqmec eg aris, rom sruli

Seusabamobaa _ amdeni adamiani

gauSves da igive adgilebze miReba

gamoacxades. ganTavisufle-

mimarTvas.

_ CvenTan saubarSi axseneT,

rom Tqveni da Tqveni Tanam-

Sromlebis ganTavisuflebis

mizezad pirad angariSsworebas

miiCnevT...

_ es aris Cemi varaudi _ Cemi

ganTavisuflebis erTaderT mizezad

miviCnev Semdegs: xuTi

wlis win gvyavda mTavari eqimi,

romelTanac yvela TanamSromels

gvqonda dapirispireba. me-17

sasjelaRsrulebis dawesebulebaSi

30 TanamSromeli viyaviT da

aqedan 20-ma davwereT gancxadeba

_ protesti gamovTqviT misi

uxeSi da damamcirebeli damokidebulebis

gamo. es qalbatoni

ar moxsnes, magram gadaiyvanes me-

7 sasjelaRsrulebis dawesebulebaSi.

am reorganizaciis Semdeg

ukan daabrunes da 20 kacidan,

vinc mis winaaRmdeg movawereT

xeli, umetesoba gaaTavisufles.

es qalbatoni gaxlavT Tamar

SurRaia da igi departamentis

xelmZRvanel TamTa demuriSvilis

axlobelia. me piradad amas

vukavSireb im terors, ris qve-

Sac movyeviT. gaCerebas ar vapireb

_ vibrZoleb bolomde da Cems

simarTles davamtkiceb!

N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

19


òcnebas~ opoziciaze meti reputaciuli

qarTuli politikuri elita 16

vano pavliaSvili

marts, anu TariRs, roca briu-

595 48 35 85

selSi saqarTvelo-evrokavSiris

asocirebis sabWos sxdoma unda

gamarTuliyo, ise eloda, rogorc bavSvi elodeba xolme

Tovlis papasa da saaxalwlo saCuqrebs, magram muxran maWa-

varianis perifraziT rom vTqvaT, saqarTvelos premierma rac

Seitana, isev is gamoitana im „saxelganTqmuli briuselidan”,

anu opoziciis imedi, pirdapir Tu iribad, gacruvda. yovel

SemTxvevaSi, gavlenianma evropelma personebma Riad ganacxa-

des, euTo-s daskvniT, 31 oqtombris arCevnebi ar gayalbebu-

la da verc imas gadavwyvetT, saqarTveloSi vadamdeli

arCevnebi unda dainiSnos Tu arao. erTaderTi, razedac evro-

paSi „ocnebas” yuri auwies, is iyo, rom usafrTxoebis poli-

tikis sakiTxebSi evrokavSiris umaRlesma warmomadgenelma,

Jozef borelma, RaribaSvils uTxra, mmarTvel partias gan-

sakuTrebuli pasuxismgebloba akisria, rom politikur

speqtrTan samomavlod SeTanxmebas miaRwioso.

595 48 35 85 valeri gelbaxiani:

„gasuli wlis bolo saparlamento

arCevnebis Semdeg

evrokavSiri gamudmebiT imeorebda,

rom yvela politikuri

moTamaSe erT platformaze

unda moeqces da arsebul politikur

situaciaSi unda moaxerxos

urTierToba... Cven parlamentis

gverdis avliT ver

movaxdenT qveyanaSi pluralizmis

damkvidrebas. yvela politikur

partias, yvela moTamaSes

saqarTveloSi ufro far-

Tod unda esmodes, ra Sedegebi

SeiZleba moitanos aman da

yvelas vTxovT, rom saqarTvelosa

da qarTveli xalxis interesebi

pirvel adgilze daayenos

da kompromisze wavides.

es momenti da es dro aris gadamwyveti.

saqarTvelos moqalaqeebs

unda hyavdeT warmomadgenlebi

xelisuflebaSi, romlebic

gaaxmovaneben mis interesebs

evrokavSirSi da Cvenc

saukeTeso interesebiT vmoqmedebT”,

_ ganacxada borelma

erTobliv preskonferenciaze.

mokled, iseTi piri uCans,

rom „kreba mxiaruli darCeba”,

anu opozicia parlamentSi

Seva, Tumca valeri gelbaxiani

„qronika+~-sTan ambobs, rom

diplomatiuri ena gansxvavebulia,

rac imas niSnavs, rom sajarod

sxva gancxadebebi keTdeba,

kuluarebSi ki sxva

rameze saubroben.

ra xdeba kuluarebSi da

mouwyves Tu ara provokacia

„Tavisufali saqarTvelos”

Tavmjdomaris yofil moadg-

ile gogi wulaias, romelic

Zaladobis braldebiT ramden-

ime dRis win daakaves? _ am

kiTxvebiT valeri gelbaxians

mivmarTeT, romelic wulaias

interesebs icavs.

_ batono valeri, simarTle

giTxraT, ver gavige, an opozicias

ra unda, an _ xelisufle-

bas. Tqven gaigeT?

_ ra vici, rogor giTxraT.

_ rogorc gindaT, ise miTx-

ariT.

_ saerTod, diplomatias

Tavisi etiketi da CarCo-formati

aqvs.

_ es ra SuaSia?

_ Cven gvCvevia, rom yvela

Temaze alalmarTlad, Riad da

gulwrfelad vsaubrobT, magram

diplomatiuri politika

cota sxvanairia, anu raRac etiketi

safexur-safexuraa daculi.

ai, magaliTad, bolo dReebSi

sul imaze vfiqrob, rac

briuselSi gacxadda, anu amis

Tqma sxvagvarad SeiZleboda

Tu ara.

_ ar SeiZleboda?

_ evrokavSiris warmomadgeneli

pirdapir ver ityoda,

rom 31 oqtombris arCevnebi

gayalbda.

_ es arc uTqvams. piriqiT,

evrokavSiris maRali rangis

warmomadgenelma ganacxada,

euTos cnobiT, arCevnebi ar

gayalbebulao.

_ diax... mokled, CarCo-etikets

ar gascda, Tumca sxva sakiTxia,

kulisebSi ras saubroben.

_ da kulisebSi ra xdeba?

_ rogori gacxadebuli realobac

unda iyos, arCevnebi ar

gayalbebulao, faqtia: saxeze

krizisia, romelic unda dai-

Zlios, anu Sedegi sxvanairia,

gacxadebuli pozicia ki _ sxvanairi.

amitom Tu evropa fiqrobs,

rom saqarTvelo dasavleTis

interesebidan ar unda

gamovides da evroatlantikuri

kursi SeinarCunos, ruseTi

ase ar fiqrobs. warmoidgineT,

aqeT ori gandgomili da araRiarebuli

avtonomia, iqiT TurqeTi,

somxeTi, azerbaijani,

anu es sivrce Caketili aqvs da

erTaderTi saqarTvelo darCa,

romelsac aiZuleben, rom gaerTianebis

meeqvse wevri gaxdes.

_ im gaerTianebas gulisxmobT,

romlis Seqmnis iniciativiTac,

Tavis droze, Turqe-

Ti gamovida?

_ diax. Tu am nabijs gadadgams,

saqarTvelo evropasa da

aSS-sTan integraciul kav-

Sirze veRarasodes wava.

_ amas ratom ambobT?

_ aseT SemTxvevaSi, dasavleTTan

integracia azrs sruliad

kargavs, anu aSS kontrols

mxolod kavkasiaze ki ara,

mTel aRmosavleTze dakargavs.

garda amisa, israelsac udidesi

problemebi Seeqmneba, romelsac

iransa da TurqeTTan isedac

garTulebuli viTareba

aqvs. mokled, Tu es eqvseuli

`biZinas fuls

ra gamoulevs da

rogorc Cans,

lobistebSi didi

fuli ixarjeba!~

Seiqmneba, israeli absoluturad

daucveli darCeba. yvelafer

aqedan gamomdinare ki

is msoflio wesrigi mTlianad

dairRveva, romelsac aSS axorcielebs.

_ e. i., batono valeri,

iziarebT mosazrebas, rom

saqarTveloSi molaparakeba

xelisuflebasa da opozicias

ki ara, realurad, dasavleTsa

da ruseTs Soris midis?

_ iciT, rogor aris?

_ rogor?

_ molaparakebebi ki ar midis,

aramed, orive mxare Tavisas

cdilobs.

_ ufro konkretulad?

_ 10-12 dRis win saqarTvelos

sagareo saqmeTa ministri

stambolsa Tu ankaraSi daibares,

sadac pirdapir uTxres,

am gaerTianebis meeqvse wevri

saqarTvelo unda iyoso.

warmoidgineT, 21 saukunis

ganmavlobaSi ar momxdara, rom

ori islamuri dapirispirebuli

banaki erT koaliciaSi yofiliyo.

axla ki iranisa da TurqeTis

interesebi erTmaneTs

ruseTis SuamavlobiT daemTxva.

_ es ultimatumi TurqeTSi

vizitad myof zalkalians

Riad ar wauyenes, ara?

_ ara, Riad ar uTqvamT.

ise, rom icodeT, zalkalianma

ikiTxa, Tu es Temaa salaparako,

maSin afxazeTisa da e.

w. samxreT oseTis sakiTxi

rogor iqnebao?

_ ra upasuxes?

_ Tu am eqvseulSi ar Semova,

maSin saqarTvelos nacvlad

afxazeTi da e. w. samxreT ose-

Ti damoukidebeli saxelmwifoebis

statusiT Semovlen, amitom

am Temaze saubari ar iyoso.

_ batono valeri, es infor-

macia saidan gaqvT?

_ sagareo wyaroebidan vici,

rom aseTi saubari namdvilad

iyo.

_ axla, praqtikulad, skandalur

informacias asa-

jaroebT...

_ skandalurs arafers vam-

`10-12 dRis win saqarTvelos sagareo saqmeTa

ministri stambolsa Tu ankaraSi daibares,

sadac pirdapir uTxres, am gaerTianebis meeqvse

wevri saqarTvelo unda iyoso. warmoidgineT,

21 saukunis ganmavlobaSi ar momxdara, rom

ori islamuri dapirispirebuli banaki erT

koaliciaSi yofiliyo. axla ki iranisa da

TurqeTis interesebi erTmaneTs ruseTis

SuamavlobiT daemTxva~

bob! sagareo saqmeTa saministroc

daadasturebs, rom zalkaliani

TurqeTSi imyofeboda.

_ zalkalianis TurqeTSi

vizitis Sesaxeb uwyebam gancx-

adeba Tavidanve gaavrcela...

_ mokled, is saubari, romlis

Sesaxebac giTxariT, TurqeTSi

namdvilad Sedga...

_ sainteresoa... ise, gulwr-

felebi Tu viqnebiT, qrTami

evropasac anaTebs. hoda, gamoricxavT,

rom evropelma dip-

lomatebma gancxadebebi imis

gamo Searbiles, rom „oc-

nebasTan” valSi arian?

_ SemiZlia giTxraT, rom iq,

sadac saqme geostrategiul

interesebs exeba, qrTami ver

anaTebs! SeiZleba, saerTod,

lobistoba oficialuri formatia

_ lobists, romelsac

qiraob, fuls uxdi. man ki politikur

wreebSi iseTi azris

Camoyalibeba unda SeZlos, romelic

ama Tu im xelisuflebis

mimarT pozitiuri iqneba, anu

politikuri lobizmi saidumlo

urTierTobis forma araa.

biZinas fuls ra gamoulevs da

Sesabamisad, lobistebSi, ra

Tqma unda, daxarjavs. sxva sakiTxia,

es fuli Tanamdebobis

pirebSi ixarjeba Tu ara. es

Cemi wvdomis areali ar gaxlavT

_ aravin metyvis, magram

lobistebSi rom didi fuli

ixarjeba, aSkarad Cans _ loialur

ganwyobebs vxedavT, magram

roca saqme msoflio wesrigsa

da strategiul interesebs

exeba, maSin es nawili gamoricxulia!

_ yvelafer zemoTqmulidan

gamomdinare,

dRevandeli

mocemulobiT, wagebuli xe-

lisuflebaa Tu opozicia?

_ „qarTuli ocneba” xelisuflebaa.

_ diax, es vici...

_ opozicia, rogori upasuxismgebloc

unda iyos igi da

rogor Secdomebsac unda uSvebdes,

im kriteriumebiT ar

fasdeba, rogoriTac xelisufleba

unda SevafasoT!

saerTod, yovelTvis yvela

problema xelisuflebis gadasaWrelia,

maT Soris, poli-

20

20 N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.


ziani aqvs miRebuli da metsac miiRebs!~

tikuri krizisic.

amitom reputaciulad meti

ziani opozicias ki ara,

„qarTul ocnebas” aqvs miRebuli

da metsac miiRebs. am SemTxvevaSi

opozicia mxardaWerilia,

radgan Zalauflebas ar

flobs da, Sesabamisad, Seqmnil

viTarebaze arc pasuxismgebloba

ekisreba!

erTi sityviT, krizisis da-

Zleva evropasac unda da aSSsac,

anu situaciis ganmuxtva

yvelas interesSia, magram

imaze, gamosavali maincdamainc

vadamdeli arCevnebia Tu ara,

azrTa sxvadasxvaoba arsebobs.

_ Tqveni azriT, vadamdeli

arCevnebi gamosavalia?

_ yvela qveyanaSi, roca

politikuri krizisi iqmneba,

aqsiomasaviTaa _ raxan krizisia,

azri xalxs vkiTxoTo.

sxvaTa Soris, evropelebma

isic Tqves, ra azri aqvs, Tu

axali arCevnebis Semdeg igive

Sedegi dadgebao? anu arCevnebma

Sedegi unda Secvalos. hoda,

Cvenc unda davanaxoT evropas,

xelaxali arCevnebi krizisidan

gamosvlis erT-erTi yvelaze

efeqtiani gza imitomaa, rom

xalxs ase unda, magram xalxis

azri ar viciT. amitom viTxovT

plebiscits.

_ e. i., valeri gelbaxiani

plebiscitis momxrea?

_ pragmatulad, plebiscitis

mowinaaRmdege var.

_ damisabuTeT, ratom?

_ Tu plebisciti igive

saarCevno sistemiT da teqnologiebiT

Catardeba, maSin garantia

ar arsebobs, rom plebiscitic

iseve ar gayalbdes,

rogorc 31 oqtombris arCevnebi

gayalbda.

_ sxvaTa Soris, ramdenime

dRis win giga bokeriam ganacxada,

Tu yvela sxva punqti dakmayofilda,

parlamentSi SevalT,

radgan vadamdel arCevnebamde

mivideTo. es ras niS-

navs?

_ uyureT, ra xdeba.

_ ra xdeba?

_ ramdenime sakiTxia.

_ kerZod?

_ eqvsidan ori punqtis dakmayofilebaze,

oTxis ki dRis

wesrigidan moxsnazea saubari.

am ori punqtidan pirveli politpatimrebs

exeba, meore ki _

adgilobriv arCevnebs. adgilobrivi

arCevnebisTvis evropelebisgan

aseTi winadadebaa

SeTavazebuli, rom Tu „qarTuli

ocneba” 45 procentze mets

miiRebs, maSin plebisciti saWiro

aRar iqneba da, Sesabamisad,

dRis wesrigidan vadamdelis

sakiTxic moixsneba, magram Tu

„ocneba” adgilobrivSi 45 procentze

naklebs miiRebs, aseT

dros vadamdeli arCevnebi

gardauvali iqneba.

_ adgilobrivi arCevnebi

Zveli saarCevno sistemiT

unda Catardes?

_ ara, axali. paralelurad,

arsebobs sakiTxi, romelic

`Tu plebisciti igive saarCevno sistemiT da teqnologiebiT Catardeba,

maSin garantia ar arsebobs, rom plebiscitic iseve ar gayalbdes, rogorc

31 oqtombris arCevnebi gayalbda~

dRis wesrigSi ar aris Setanili:

31 oqtombris arCevnebTan

dakavSirebiT sagamoZiebo komisia

unda Seiqmnas da Tu, ase

vTqvaT, gayalbeba erT procents

ascdeba, maSin adgilobrivi

arCevnebis Sedegs azri aRar

eqneba da vadamdeli arCevnebi

dainiSneba.

amasTan, saarCevno kanonmdebloba

paritetul sawyisebze

unda Seicvalos. ai, axla realurad

es ixileba.

_ yvelafer amisTvis opo-

ziciis parlamentSi Sesvla

aucilebelia?

_ diax, radgan sakonstitucio

cvlilebebzea saubari.

_ mesmis, magram igive 20 iv-

nisis Semdgom ganviTarebuli

movlenebis gaTvaliswinebiT,

arsebobs garantia, rom „ocnebam”

opozicia ar „gadaag-

dos”?

_ amis garantia ar arsebobs,

magram Tu Suamavlebi dokuments

xels moaweren, garantia

es iqneba, anu xelisuflebas

opozicia ki ara, ukve evropa

mosTxovs pasuxs...

_ faruli Canawerebis skandali

TiTqos gadaifara, ma-

gram, batono valeri, Tqven,

rogorc iuristi, am CanawerebSi

danaSaulis niSnebs xe-

davT?

_ es ambavi piradad me gadamxda

_ Cemze iseTi kompilirebuli

Canaweri gavrcelda,

roca movusmine, yurebs ar davujere,

_ nuTu, amas me vlaparakob-meTqi?

_ Tqvengan gansxvavebiT,

Canaweris Sinaarsi, marTalia,

arapirdapir, magram beramac

daadastura da anzor Cu-

biniZemac.

_ mec davadasture, rom Cemi

saubridan raRacebi amokrebili

da gadabmuli iyo, anu

Cemi nalaparakebi iyo, magram

winadadebebi sxvadasxva konteqstidan

iyo erTmaneTze mibmuli.

amitom iZulebuli gavxdi,

beWduri mediisTvis meTxova,

rom am Canaweris sruli teqsti

gamoeqveynebina, radgan

xalxs waekiTxa, sinamdvileSi,

marTalia, bera arc iuristia da arc

iuridiuli ganaTleba gaaCnia, magram mis

naTqvams gamarTleba ar aqvs! metic: es

gancxadeba dasjadi qmedebaa! gasagebia, rom

qarTul kulturaSi dedis Segineba dRemde

Seuracxyofad miiCneva da pasuxis gareSe ar

unda darCes, magram es adaTobrivi

samarTalia. sajaro samarTali ki aseT

raRacebs gmobs. amitom pasuxismgebloba iman

unda aiRos, vinc riskavs!~

ras vambobdi da 12-wuTian montaJSi

ra gavida.

mokled, Cemi mware

gamocdilebidan, ver vakeTeb

komentars, es Canaweri originalia

Tu montaJi.

_ weRandeli Tqmisa ar iyos,

avTentikuroba

xelaRebiT

arc beram uaryo. metic: isic

ki Tqva, Tu vinme dedas kidev

Seexeba, analogiurad mov-

iqceviTo...

_ beram Canawerebis avTentikuroba

arc uaryo da arc

daadastura, magram es gancxadeba

seriozuli araa. marTalia,

bera arc iuristia da arc

iuridiuli ganaTleba gaaCnia,

magram mis naTqvams gamarTleba

ar aqvs!

metic: es gancxadeba dasjadi

qmedebaa!

gasagebia, rom qarTul kulturaSi

dedis Segineba dRemde

Seuracxyofad miiCneva da pasuxis

gareSe ar unda darCes,

magram es adaTobrivi samarTalia.

sajaro samarTali ki aseT

raRacebs gmobs.

amitom pasuxismgebloba iman

unda aiRos, vinc riskavs!

_ ise, rogor fiqrobT, am

faruli Canaweris gasajaroeba

„ocnebis” interesSi Sedio-

da? es Canaweri „nacebs” rom

hqonodaT, wesiT, aqamdec ga-

moaqveynebdnen, ara?

_ „nacionalebi” biZina

ivaniSvils 9 wlis ganmavloba-

Si, cxadia, ar dazogavdnen!

_ eWvi visze gaqvT, „ocne-

bidan” es Canawerebi vis unda

gamoetana?

_ rogorc Cemamde modis informacia,

laSa nacvliSvilis

xeliT unda iyos gakeTebuli!

_ nacvliSvils SurisZieba

RaribaSvilze undoda Tu

mTel „ocnebaze”?

_ „ocnebidan” rom gauSves,

amitom undoda SurisZieba.

sxvaTa Soris, es mxolod

erTi kompromati araa.

_ aba?

_ sxva kompromatebic aris

da amiT vaWrobs. adre rom gau-

Sves, maSinac ivaWra da daabrunes.

axlac, rogorc Cans, va-

Wrobs, Tu Tavs ar damanebebT,

sxvebic maqvso.

_ nacvliSvili am Canawerebs

TviTon ver gaakeTebda. e. i.,

Zalovnebidan vinme awvdis,

ara?

_ ar vici, sworia Tu ara,

magram, Cemi azria, rom nacvliSvils

„otoSi” viRac hyavda,

Tavisi kaci, romelic yvelafer

amas iwerda da nacvliSvils

aZlevda.

_ sxvaTa Soris, zogierTi

miiCnevs, rom „Tavisufali

saqarTvelos” Tavmjdomaris

yofili moadgilis, gogi wulaias

dakaveba swored am faruli

Canawerebis skandalis gagrZelebaa,

anu batonma wula-

iam bera ivaniSvils pirdapir

eTerSi agina da gaCnda versia,

rom qalze Zaladoba mouwyves.

Tqven, rogorc dakavebuli po-

litikosis advokati, am versias

iziarebT? sxvaTa Soris, da-

zaralebuli qali ambobs, rom

cota dalia, magram daujerebelia,

wulaias, romelmac gu-

lis operacia ramdenime Tvis

win gaikeTa, daelia...

_ gogi wulaias testi Cautarda

da alkoholi nulia

naCvenebi, anu alkoholuri

Trobis qveS ar yofila.

_ e. i., versia, rom qali

specsamsaxurebma miugzavnes

an gadaibires, dasaSvebia?

_ araa gamoricxuli...

_ bolos, batono valeri,

mTeli es politikuri bakqana-

lia riT damTavrdeba? sxvaTa

Soris, maxsovs, 31 oqtombris

arCevnebamde meubnebodiT, ai,

„ocneba” dRe-dReze damTavrdebao,

magram ki ar damTavrda,

avad Tu kargad, xelisuf-

lebaSi mesame vadiTac darCa.

_ davijere, rom biZina

ivaniSvils yvelaferi es moswyinda

da politikidan wavida,

magram, samwuxarod, Sevcdi.

Turme, Tu did tyuils

ityvi, adamianebi ijereben, patara

tyuilze ki eWvi aqvT.

mokled, misi naTqvami davijere,

radgan ar megona, Tu amxela

tyuils ityoda!

_ axla risi gjeraT, anu ras

elodebiT?

_ imaze met resurss, rac

aqvs, opozicia, cxadia, cidan

ver Camoitans. es resursi vadamdeli

arCevnebisTvis sakmarisi

araa, magram CvenTvis damamSvidebeli

garemoeba is aris,

rom am SemTxvevaSi laparaki

mxolod opoziciaze ar gaxlavT.

_ aba, kidev visze an razea?

_ saqarTvelo msoflios

strategiuli politikis nawilia!

amitom es ambavi mxolod

Cveni gadasawyveti SeiZleba

arc gaxdes da dasavleTi uke-

Tesadac gadawyvets!

_ e. i., vadamdel arCevnebs

grZelvadian perspeqtivaSi

unda velodoT?

_ swrafad araferi xdeba.

saerTod, omi grZelvadiania.

es ki Cveulebrivi omia, RirebulebaTa

omi.

N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

21


`mixeil saakaSvilTan opoziciam

maSin, roca evropelebis medi-

vano pavliaSvili

aciiT xelisuflebisa da opozic-

595 48 35 85

iis mimdinare molaparakebebi,

praqtikulad, kraxiT damTavrda,

anu „ocnebam” ukan ar daixia, Cndeba logikuri kiTxva: ra

nabijebi unda gadadgas opoziciam da, saerTod, aqvs Tu ara

azri parlamentis win gaSlil karvebs? politikosi irakli

Rlonti, romelic ramdenime kviraa, karavSi cxovrobs, „qronika+”-sTan

ambobs, rom mxolod TviTon ki ara, misi megobre-

bic brZolisunarianobas inarCuneben. amasTan, respondenti

Cvens gamocemasTan saubrisas xazgasmiT aRniSnavs, rom

opoziciis e. w. liderSifis gadaxalisebis droa.

595 48 35 85

irakli Rlonti:

ras niSnavs liderSifis gada-

xaliseba da unda gamoiyenos Tu

ara opoziciam mixeil saakaSvilis

faqtori, vTqvaT, dasav-

leTTan komunikaciis dros? _

„qronika+~-s irakli Rlonti

esaubra:

_ irakli, rogor xar, ra

aris Senken axali?

_ gmadlobT, mokiTxvisTvis,

ara miSavs, ise var, rogorc Sei-

Zleba viyo qveyanaSi, romelic

wlebis ganmavlobaSi mizanmimarTulad

moSales da moangries,

Tumca, tradiciulad, optimizmsa

da brZolisunarianobas vinar-

Cuneb, radgan mjera, brZolas

azri aqvs da mouTmenlad velodebi

Sedegs, rom yvelam erTad

vixiloT Ronieri saqarTvelo

bednieri da erTiani qarTveli

xalxiT.

_ optimizmi kargia, magram

opoziciis imedi, rom evropeli

megobrebi dagvexmarebodnen, ar

gamarTlda. ra gamodis _ evro-

pam „dagvikida”?

_ gulwrfelad rom giTxraT,

ar mesmis, amis Tqmis safuZvels

ra gaZlevT?

_ is maZlevs, rom molapar-

akebebi CaiSala da evropuli

sabWos prezidentis piradi war-

momadgeneli qveynidan wavida...

_ evropisTvis saqarTvelo

umniSvnelo rom iyos, es formatebi

arc Sedgeboda. gaveSebuli

oligarqisa da misi marionetebis

pirdapiri Tavdasxmebi

demokratiaze sakuTari TvaliT

ixileT. axla ki, albaT, xedavT,

rom toni da leqsika Serbilebulia.

_ amiT risi Tqma ginda?

_ rom ara evropa, es ar moxdeboda,

magram CvenTvis RaribaSvilisa

da sxvaTa toni umniSvnelo

ki araa, aramed, TanamebrZolebis

tyveobidan daxsnasa da

demokratiul, namdvil arCevnebs

viTxovT. evropuli struqturebi

saqarTvelos arasdros toveben

mtkice partniorobis miRma,

magram xSirad jeri Cvenzea, _ is

saerTo Rirebulebebi ar unda

dagvaviwydes, razedac dasavluri

faseulobebi da politikaa

daSenebuli.

_ rogor vici, bolo dros

parlamentis win, karavSi aTev

Rames. irakli, axlandeli gada-

saxedidan, am karvebs azri aqvs?

_ roca Cveni TanamebrZoli

nika melia Zaladobrivi gziT

daatyveves, opoziciuri liderebis

erT-erT gafarToebul

Sexvedraze gadavwyviteT, rom

samoqalaqo aqtivistebis garda,

parlamentis mimdebared karvebi

politikur subieqtebsac unda

dagvedga. marTalia, am droisTvis

romelime partiis SemadgenlobaSi

ar var da arc romelime

partiaSi partiuli Tanamdeboba

mikavia, magram yvela politikur

formatSi vmonawileob

da Tavidanve gadavwyvite, rom

parlamentTan karavs davdgamdi

da ramdenime saaTSi, Cems TanamebrZolebTan

erTad, marTlac ase

moviqeci. dRes Cemi TanamebrZoli

da yvelaze didi eleqtoraluri

mxardWeris mqone partiis

lideri diqtaturisken swrafad

mimavali oligarqis kanongareSe

xuSturebis gamo, cixeSi

ukanonodaa gamwesebuli. miuxedavad

imisa, rom am siciveSi karvebSi

yofna arcTu komfortulia,

Cveni valdebulebaa, rom,

erTi mxriv, nika melias da meore

mxriv, qarTveli xalxisa da

demokratiis mimarT viyoT solidaruli!

sxvaTa Soris, karavSi

myofebi mSeneblebs magoneben.

_ ratom?

_ visac mSeneblobasTan Semxebloba

aqvs, kargad icis, rom

mSeneblobis dawyebamde Zveli,

usaxuri, amortizebuli da usargeblo

Senobis an misi narCenebis

demontaJi xorcieldeba,

raTa niadagi axali mSeneblobisTvis

momzaddes. dRes saqar-

TveloSi usaxuri, saxedakarguli,

amortizebuli da usargeblo

xelisuflebis demontaJi

mimdinareobs. am miznis SesrulebaSi

ki mniSvnelovan rols

swored es karvebi asrulebs. Sesabamisad,

iq myofi adamianebi

momavlis, jansaRi da Ronieri

saqarTvelos mSeneblebi arian!

es adamianebi angreven moryeul,

uSinaarso, usargeblo Senobis

narCenebs. rogorc ki demontaJi

dasruldeba, yvela narCeni am

teritoriidan unda gavitanoT,

saWiro adgilas movaTavsoT da

es adamianebi, sxvebTan erTad,

axali, Zlieri saqarTvelos

mSeneblobas daiwyeben! aqve, madlobas

vuxdi karavSi myof Rirseul

adamianebs. isini Zlieri

qveynis mSeneblebi arian!

_ yvelaferi es gasagebia, ma-

gram opoziciam sabediswero

Secdoma xom ar dauSva, roca

miSelis vizitis mere saprotes-

to aqciebi Searbila da, umete-

sad, gadado?

_ ara, ver dageTanxmebi.

_ ratom ver dameTanxmebi?

_ Cven, opozicia, e. w. xelisu-

àm opozicias

namdvilad ar

mivandobdi qveynis

marTvis saWes!~

flebisgan gansxvavebiT, qarTveli

dasavlelebi varT da Cven-

Tvis umniSvnelovanesia, qarTveli

xalxis sagareo arCevans vceT

pativi. oligarq ivaniSvilis morCilebaSi

myofi destruqciuli

„qarTul ocnebisgan” erT-erTi

ganmasxvavebeli swored Cveni

evropuli da evroatlantikuri

Rirebulebebia. erTi wamiTac ar

davuSvebT, rom im prokremlistur

Zalas davemsgavsoT, romlisTvisac

faseulobas arc

evropa warmoadgens da arc _

sakuTari eris arCevani. saprotesto

talRis Serbilebas xalxis

nawili ar gvpatiobs, magram

didma nawilma sworad gagvigo,

rom es saWiro iyo, raTa dasavleli

partniorebisTvis Cveni pasuxismgebliani

damokidebuleba

kidev erTxel dagvenaxvebina!

naxeT, kobaxiZe rogor Seecada,

opoziciis mxardamWeri aqtivistebis

mSvidobiani piketirebis

mcdeloba imisTvis gamoeyenebina,

rom ai, opozicia destruqciuliao.

am dros, yvelam kargad

viciT, rom destruqciis, revanSisa

da Zaladobrivi meTodebis

avtori Tavad „qarTuli ocneba“

da misi politikuri menejmentia!

aravis mivcemT safuZvels,

rom destruqciuli dagviZaxos,

radgan simarTle Cven mxaresaa.

amasTan, TiToeuli moTxovna

legitimaciiT aris savse da

Cveni mizani xalxis mniSvnelovani

nawilis dakveTis aRsrulebaa.

ise, aqciebis Serbileba strategiuli

svla iyo, Torem arc

misi gaZliereba warmoadgens

problemas! Tu „ocneba” xalxisa

da opoziciis moTxovnebis mimarT

araadekvaturi darCeba, protestis

forma bevrad xisti, uwyveti

da winaaRmdegobebiT savse

iqneba.

_ irakli, kuluarebSi, mgoni,

kargad erkvevi da Riad da

pirdapir miTxari, dRes opoziciur

erTobaSi e. w. mTavari violino

vinaa, anu iziareb mosazrebas,

rom giga bokeria cdi-

lobs, opoziciis lideri

gaxdes?

_ giga bokeria im opoziciur

erTobaSi, romlis magidasTan

yofna mec miwevs, erTi konkretuli

partiis warmomadgenelia.

ar vici, bokerias ra surs, magram

vici, me ra msurs.

_ da ra gsurs?

_ xalxis didi nawilis msgavsad

msurs, rom qveyanaSi pluralistuli,

mravalpartiuli

politikuri sistemisTvis niadagi

SevqmnaT da movamzadoT. aseT

sistemaSi yvelas, bokeria iqneba,

ugulava, Rlonti Tu sxva vinme,

òligarq ivaniSvilis morCilebaSi myofi

destruqciuli `qarTuli ocnebisgan~ erT-erTi

ganmasxvavebeli swored Cveni evropuli da

evroatlantikuri Rirebulebebia. erTi

wamiTac ar davuSvebT, rom im prokremlistur

Zalas davemsgavsoT, romlisTvisac

faseulobas arc evropa warmoadgens da arc -

sakuTari eris arCevani~

qveynis interesebisa da xalxis

winaSe sakuTari adgili da pasuxismgebloba

eqneba! dRes „opoziciis

lideri” gazviadebuli

terminia. me opozicioneri var

da amis Tqmis saSualebas Cemi

ganvlili gza maZlevs.

_ anu?

_ Cems liderad jer sxva ar

miRiarebia. Tavad vemzadebi, rom

lider poziciaze viyo, radgan

xalxisgan amis dakveTas vxedav!

saerTod, mravali lideris yofna

misasalmebelia da, sabednierod,

amis resursic gvaqvs, magram

dRes mxolod nika meliaze

SemiZlia vTqva, rom igi opoziciis

lideria _ man sakuTari Tavi

Sinaarsiani da Tamami nabijebiT

Seqmna! lideroba advili ar

aris, miT umetes, im tipisa da

mowyobis qveyanaSi, romlis mar-

Tvis sadaveebi dResac ruseTs

upyria. xedavT, rac xdeba rusul

politikaSi. hoda, saqarTvelos

politikac misi aslia, radgan

ruseTs aq mis kalTas amofarebuli

da misdami angariSvaldebuli

oligarqi hyavs! maSin, roca

ruseTTan gvaqvs brZola,

liderobis gza iseT Tamam

nabijebs moiTxovs, rogoric nikam

gadadga da Tu gvinda, vinmes

opoziciis lideri vuwodoT,

terminebs nu avurevT da nu

gavaxunebT. lideri axla nikaa!

mjera, masTan erTad, bevr sxva

saintereso lidersac vixilavT.

es procesi nela, magram mainc

mimdinareobs.

_ sxvaTa Soris, is xmac da-

dis, rom calkeuli opoziciuri

liderebi „ocnebasTan” TiTqos

vaWroben. amaze ras ityvi?

_ yvelaferi gamoCndeba. jer

is Cans, rom opozicia erTiania.

sxvaTa Soris, aseTi erTianoba

arCevnebis TariRamde rom yofiliyo,

xelisuflebas 52 procentis

ki ara, bevrad metis dawera

mouxdeboda. vwuxvar, rom

Tavis droze opoziciis realuri

erTianobis ualternativo

ideas swori Sefaseba ar

mieca. zogma, dabali procentis

miuxedavad, ganacxadi qveynis

pirvelpirobaze gaakeTa. zogmac

TeTri sayeloTi, damoukidebeli

politikuri dRis wesrigis

formireba gadawyvita. axla ki

yvelam dainaxa, rom Zala erTo-

22

22 N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.


zors Secdoma bevrjer dauSva!~ baSia! am ideas alternativa mar-

Tla ar gaaCnia! opoziciidan

vinc ivaWra, ki xedavT, Tea wulukiani

ra dReSic amyofebs da

mis adgilze yofnas namdvilad

ar visurvebdi. ise, wulukianma

rac elisaSvils uTxra, sworia _

mas saqme sasacilod ar aqvs.

unda tirodes, radgan saqme satirlad

gaixada! Tavis mimarT

xalxis safuZvlian kritikul

azrs verasodes Secvlis! miyvars

gamonaTqvami, moRalates dammarxavi

ar hyavdeso.

_ Tu ise moxda, rom parla-

mentSi Tundac plebiscitisa da

saarCevno kodeqsis cvlilebis

sababiT Sevida, amiT opozicia

reitings saerTod xom ar

dakargavs?

_ mimaCnia, rom Zalian saintereso

demokratiuli instrumentia,

magram axla plebiscitis

dro da mocemuloba ar gvaqvs.

axla saxezea gayalbebuli xalxis

neba da uzurpirebuli Zalaufleba,

an e. w. xelisufleba

xalxTan Widaobs! opozicias 52

procenti dagviwera da miuxedavad

amisa, qveynis „administrirebas”

Tavad agrZelebs. axla ra

vqnaT, isev xalxTan mivideT da

gamokiTxviT Seuracxyofa mivayenoT?

gayalbebuli arCevnebis

pirobebSi, xalxs rogor unda

vkiTxoT, Catardes Tu ara vadamdeli

arCevnebi? unda Catardes,

aba, ra?! xalxis am sakiTxze

Sewuxeba sircxvilia da es dRes

nonsensia. vidre nika melia cixeSia,

rogor unda Sevides Tavmoyvare

politikosi Tbil kabinetSi?

ok, vinc Seva, Svides, piradad

me, masTan TanamSromloba

gamiWirdeba. opozicia reitings

maSin dakargavs, roca „qarTul

ocnebas” daemsgavseba da yvela

opoziciuri Zalis liders vur-

Cev, erTi wamiTac ar davixioT

ukan, ar davSordeT xalxis nebasa

da ganwyobebs! gamarjveba swored

ase mova, xalxi gaimarjvebs!

_ irakli, Seni azriT, xalxis

masobrivi aqciebis gareSe „oc-

neba” daTmobaze wamova?

_ „ocnebam” Cvenze ukeT icis,

rogoria ganwyoba mis mimarT.

isic icis, rom Zafi male gawydeba.

„ocnebas” avtoriteti

dakarguli aqvs, rogorc saer-

TaSoriso asparezze, aseve saku-

Tar mosaxleobaSi. es mxolod

Cemi azri ki ara, realuri ganwyobaa!

ise, „ocneba” is dajgufebaa,

romelmac qarTveli xalxis

yvela ocneba da survili ukuagdo!

am xelisuflebis dros, 700

000-ze metma qarTvelma samSoblo

iZulebiT datova. xalxi

axla molaparakebebs elodeba,

Tumca siaxleebs opoziciidanac

iTxovs! imas, rasac axla vityvi,

ucxo aravisTvisaa: bevri e. w.

lideri xalxs, maT Soris, mec,

yelSi gvyavs amosuli! minda, mediasac

umorCilesad gTxovoT,

rom maqsimalurad SeuwyoT xeli

axali kadrebis damkvidrebas!

yvela sakiTxze komentars erTi

da igive adamianebi ar unda akeTebdnen!

daRlili politikosebi

`Sors var im azrisgan, rom miSas gareSe opozicia nulia, magram aTbalian

sistemaSi, miSas uSualo CarTulobis gareSe, opozicia minimalur

niSnulzea, daaxloebiT, 3-4 qulas Tu davuwerdi. Tavis mxriv~

pensiaSi unda gavidnen da maTi

adgili energiiTa da codniT

savse axalgazrdebma daikavon.

sxvaTa Soris, CemTvis axali kadrebi

da qarTuli diasporisa

da emigraciis politikur cxovrebaSi

CarTva, aseve saparlamento

siaSi kvotireba arsebiTad

prioritetulia!

_ xom ar uSvebs opozicia

kidev erT Secdomas, roca mixeil

saakaSvils, rogorc faq-

tors, am molaparakebebSi ar

iyenebs?

_ mixeil saakaSvilTan mimarTebiT

opoziciam Secdoma bevrjer

dauSva. araerTxel vTqvi,

sasurveli iqneba, devnil prezidentsa

da Cven Soris yvelaze

farTo politikuri Tu eleqtoraluri

mxardaWeris mqone

politikoss vTxovoT, gaerTianebuli

opoziciis sagareo mdivnis

pozicia daikavos, Sesabamisi

uflebamosilebiT aRvWurvoT

da yvela evropul da evroatlantikur

struqturaSi Cveni

warmomadgeneli iyos-meTqi. sworad

gamigeT, ar gvaqvs Cven imis

fufuneba, rom vikeklucoT.

gasagebia, rom ambiciebi gvaqvs,

magram am kacs Cven Soris yvelaze

meti gamocdileba aqvs,

N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

plus, icnoben, rogorc Semdgar

reformators, ician misi dadebiTi

da uaryofiTic. martivad

rom avxsna, bevrad advilia mas-

Tan saubari saerTaSoriso partniorebisTvis,

vidre _ srulad

ucxo an TvalmokvriT nacnob

ambiciur politikosebTan!

nacvlad imisa, rom saakaSvils

vTxovdeT mxardaWeras, zogier-

Ti partia „qocur” dartymebs

ayenebs mas, xSirad e. w. akrZaluli

ileTebiTac da Semdeg rogor

ziandeba saerTo saqmec da,

pirvel rigSi, Tavad es subieqtebi,

amas vxedavT. miSasTan mimarTebiT

sruliad pragmatuli,

saqmiani da realisturi xedvebi

maqvs. amovdivar iqidan, rom igi

flobs bevrs unars, cnobadobas,

reitings, avtoritetsa da, rac

mTavaria, sasicocxlo mniSvnelobis

mdidar gamocdilebas, gansakuTrebiT,

sagareo veqtorze.

Sors var im azrisgan, rom miSas

gareSe opozicia nulia, magram

aTbalian sistemaSi, miSas uSualo

CarTulobis gareSe, opozicia

minimalur niSnulzea, daaxloebiT,

3-4 qulas Tu davuwerdi.

Tavis mxriv, miSasac vakvirdebi,

ar momewona misi Sefaseba ian

kelisTan dakavSirebiT, magram is

òpoziciidan vinc ivaWra, ki xedavT, Tea

wulukiani ra dReSic amyofebs da mis

adgilze yofnas namdvilad ar visurvebdi.

ise, wulukianma rac elisaSvils uTxra,

sworia - mas saqme sasacilod ar aqvs. unda

tirodes, radgan saqme satirlad gaixada!

Tavis mimarT xalxis safuZvlian kritikul

azrs verasodes Secvlis! miyvars gamonaTqvami,

moRalates dammarxavi ar hyavdeso~

adamianic daiRala, 9 welia, sam-

Soblodan devnilia da uyurebs,

rogor nadgurdeba yvelaferi

is, rasac Seudarebeli xalisiT

aSenebda da akeTebda. momwons,

rom sakuTar Tavs ar ganixilavs

maRal politikur Tanamdebobaze,

yvelaze meti gamocdilebis,

poziciisa da ambiciis uflebis

mqone adamiani ukan wevs sakuTar

ambiciebs da xandaxan mikvirs,

zogierT Cvengans saidan aqvs ase

moWarbebuli usafuZvlo ambiciebi?!

_ ise, iziareb mosazrebas,

rom am molaparakebebs sami ki

ara, oTxi mxare hyavs da es meo-

Txe ruseTia, anu kremli cdilobs,

sakuTari interesebi gaa-

taros?

_ iq, sadac qarTveli xalxis

evropuli da evroatlantikuri

ideebis aRsrulebisTvis brZolaa,

kremli da misi specsamsaxurebi

yvelgan warmodgenilni

arian. axla, specsamsaxurTan er-

Tad, Cveni xalxis winaaRmdeg e.

w. mmarTveli Zalac moqmedebs,

romelic qarTuli interesebis

sazianod kremlis struqturebTan

kolaboraciaSia! kremli

yvelgan, sadac ki xeli miuwdveba,

Tavis binZur sacecebs afa-

Turebs, maT Soris, axlac. merwmuneT,

es damRleli nervebis

omic gadaivlis da gamarjveba

mainc saqarTvelos mxares dar-

Ceba da am gamarjvebas yvelani

erTad vizeimebT.

_ vidre saubars davasrulebT,

farul Canawerebsac SevexoT.

irakli, ras fiqrob, „ocnebidan”

amis gamotana vis SeeZ-

lo?

_ samwuxarod, ar vici, Tumca

mimaCnia, rom qveyanaSi unda dasruldes

kanongareSe moqmedebebi,

maT Soris, rogoricaa faruli

miyuradeba, mosmena, TvalTvali,

zewola, magram aqve madloba

minda vuTxra telekompania

„pirvels”, nodar melaZesa da mis

gunds, rom am donis kriminaluri

faqti gaasajarova. vwuxvar,

rom adekvaturi reagireba saxelmwifo

instituciebs ar hqoniaT

da ar daiwyes gamoZieba

swori mimarTulebiT. nebismieri

Tavmoyvare saxelmwifo da instituciebi

ukve dakiTxavda beras,

RaribaSvils, „jigar” an-

da gomelaurs. „ocneba” am

Tavmoyvareobisgan ufro da

ufro gvaSorebs. sxvaTa Soris,

Cven, sazogadoebac vcdebiT,

roca amisTana Semzarav faqtebs

ar varqmevT zust saxels da

sakadrisad ar vpasuxobT. axsna

ar aqvs oligarqis ojaxis wevris

qcevas, ufro auxsneli da Semzaravia

instituciebSi pirvel

pirebad warmodgenili pirebis

saqcieli. modi da ande axla

aseT premier-ministrs sakuTari

Svilebis momavali da qveyana.

_ ra gaqvs saTqmeli biZina

ivaniSvilTan?

_ biZina, Sen WidaobisTvis

mzad ar xar, amis unarebi ar

gagaCnia da wadi, nu gveWidavebi

Tavisuflebismoyvare demokrat

xalxs!

_ Senze rom iyos damokidebuli,

opozicias rogor taqtikasa

da strategias SesTava-

zebdi?

_ miuxedavad imisa, rom Tavisi

Wreli mocemulobiT bevrad

win dgas, vidre uzurpatori xelisufleba,

piradad me opoziciis

rebrendings visurvebdi, romelic

sakuTar partiaSi pirvelad

nika meliam daiwyo. momwons,

rom erTianoba bevrad mtkicea,

vidre odesme yofila, Tumca

kidev metia saWiro. saerTod,

opoziciaSi bevr problemas vxedav,

minda, ufro axlos viyoT

xalxTan, TiToeul satkivarze

gvqondes mkacri da zusti Sefaseba!

xalxs daRamebisa da gaTenebis

eSinia, imdenad farTo da yovlismomcvelia

siduxWire. maqvs

kritikuli SeniSvnebic, magali-

Tad, sasamarTlosTan mimarTebiT,

im programas, romelic opoziciam

erTi wlis win sajarod

waradgina, mxars ar vuWer, radgan

profesiuli gamocdileba da

sasamarTlo servisebTan siaxlove

mexmareba, viyo ufro zusti

am umniSvnelovanesi konstituciuri

instituciis mimarT.

opoziciam unda SevZloT e.w.

xelisuflebis iZuleba, gaaTavisuflos

politpatimrebi da

CainiSnos vadamdeli demokratiuli

arCevnebi. Tu amas opozicia

dRes ver SeZlebs, e. i. igi kontrproduqtiulia

da ufro

mwvaved dadgeba rebredingis,

sisxlis gadasxmis sakiTxi.

erTi ram namdvilad vici, rom

es opozicia am e. w. xelisuflebas

foras miscems, Tumca es opozicia

namdvilad ar aris is Zala,

romelsac am cvlilebis Semdeg

piradad me qveynis marTvis

saWes mivandobdi. axla mTavaria,

ruseTi davamarcxoT saqarTveloSi

da amis Semdeg erTxel kidev

mogviwevs xalxis Sewuxeba, rom

sworad gadaeces saWe yvelaze

saimedo da kompetentur Zalebs.

_ „nacionaluri moZraobis”

ofisis dacxrilva Ria teroria?

_ es erT-erTi mZime dana-

Saulia, romlis ukanac, maRali

albaTobiT, pirdapir dgas e. w.

xelisufleba. iribad _ „qarTuli

ocnebis” revanSistuli politika.

xandaxan meRimeba, roca

kobaxiZe da misi Tanapartielebi

opozicias uwodebs arakonstruqciuls.

sxvaTa Soris, es is „Zalaa”,

romelic oficialurad mxilebulia

destabilizaciur

nabijebSi.

23

marTalia, gaerTianebuli

opoziciis im sxdomas, romelzedac

aqciebis 15 maisamde gadadebis

gadawyvetileba miiRes,

partia „kanoni da samarTlis”

lideri Tako Carkviani ar eswreboda,

magram opoziciuri

gegmis gasajaroebis Semdeg man

socialur qselSi dawera:

„ai, es suraTi-„kartinka”

opoziciaSi ar-aRar SeiZleba _

ukve „uniWobaa”.

Tu rame vTqvi, yvelaferi

zustad asrulda, samwuxarod!

am gegmaSi, am „kartinkiT”, ar

da ver mogyvebiT, radgan zustad

vici, rom katastrofaaa

qveynisTvis da didi sisulele

da isev erT wreze triali.

SevikribebiT garkveuli adamianebi,

asavluri veqtoriT. me

Cems _ „kanoni da samarTlis” _

gegmas vityvi, sxvebi _ Tavisas,

SevjerdebiT da, ki batono,

brZola bolomde!

xalxi?

xalxi brZenia!

mTavaria, ise ar aizilos „sxvisi

korufcioneri” „Cvens-Cvenian

korufcionerSi”, „sxvisi

ruseTi-okupantis momxre” _

„Cvenian” okupant-ruseTis momxreSi”!..

es marazmi unda dasruldes!

xalxisTvis erTi „nagavia”!

mokled, gavisaubrebT!

xalxTan frTxilad, radgan

xalxi brZenia!”

„qronika+~ gTavazobT partia

„kanoni da samarTlis” xelmZRvanel

Tako Carkvianis in-

tervius:

_ qalbatono Tako, opozi-

ciaSi ra xdeba?

_ gulwrfelad rom vTqvaT,

didi saqme gakeTda.

_ ras gulisxmobT?

_ saqarTvelos mimarT niSanwyalic

ki aRar igrZnoboda da

es siCume Zalian maSinebda. boikotma

didi saqme swored am

kuTxiT gaakeTa. mokled, dasavleTma

dainaxa, rom saqarTvelo-

Si demokratiis mimarTulebiT

saqme kargad ver aris. eseni vi-

Tom wynarad da mSvidad muSaoben,

magram evroatlantikuri

kuTxiT, sinamdvileSi, araferi

keTdeba. Cven ki amis fufuneba

ar gvaqvs... simarTle rom vTqvaT,

muSaoba nariSkinebTan, kosaCovebsa

da gavrilovebTan midis.

_ kosaCov-nariSkin-gavrilovebTan

xelisufleba muSaobs,

opozicia Tu orive erTad?

_ xelisufleba da amaze ori

azri ar arsebobs! mokled, boikotiT

opoziciam Zalian didi

saqme gaakeTa da dasavleTSi

saqarTvelom isev didi interesi

gamoiwvia!

_ SeiZleba, magram amiT

24

vano pavliaSvili

595 48 35 85


`vadamdeli arCevnebi

ramdenime dRis win cnobili

gaxda, rom opoziciam aqciebi

maisamde gadado. kerZod, didi

aqcia 15 maiss gaimarTeba.

araferi Seicvala, anu Sedegi

ar migviRia.

_ diax, magram yvelaferi mu-

Saobis Sedegia. saerTod, roca

saqme bandadqceul oligarqis

garemocvasTan gaqvs, romlis

saTaveSic miliarderia, Sedegis

miReba rTulad sabrZolvelia!

erTi wamiT politikas Tavi davaneboT

da imas, rac qveyanaSi

xdeba, ise SevxedoT, rogorc

rigiTma moqalaqebma.

_ ki batono...

_ mecxre welia, fabrika-qarxnebi

ar arsebobs. ivaniSvils ki

ar vTxov, Seni fuliT gaakeTemeTqi,

ras brZanebT! amdeni programaa

da xom SeiZleba, xalxs

pirobebi Seuqmna da interesi

gauCino, rom, elementarulad,

sawarmoebi gaixsnas, magram _

ara! da amitomac vambob, mizanmimarTuli

qmedebaa, rom saqar-

Tvelo miwaze iyos ganrTxmuli!

_ qalbatono Tako, am mizan-

mimarTulobaze sxva drosac

gvisaubria, magram dRes gansx-

vavebuli mocemulobaa, anu

opozicia imedovnebda, „oc-

nebas” evropis SeeSindeba da

ukan daixevso, magram piriqT

moxda _ „ocnebam” evropa fexze

„daikida” da, garkveulwilad,

mgoni, evropamac „dagvikida”. am

fonze, opoziciam aqciebi daa-

pauza da 15 maisisTvis gadado.

es ra aris?

_ es isaa, razedac Cemi mosazreba

maqvs.

_ kerZod?

_ didi xania, vambob, opoziciaSi

koreqtivebia SesatanimeTqi.

_ kartebi gaxseniT da pirdapir

miTxariT, opoziciaSi koreqtivebi

ra kuTxiTaa Sesa-

tani?

_ ki batono, gavxsnaT kartebi.

Jurnalistebma miTxres, burjanaZem

ganacxada, Tako Carkvians

CemTan piradi interesi aqvso

da cota gamikvirda. axla,

romelime politikosTan ra piradi

interesi unda mqondes an

raSi mainteresebs, magram

saqarTvelosTvis veqtoruli

aRreva kargi ar aris, radgan es

nihilizms iwvevs. Cvens mitingebze

erTi Zalian saintereso da

kargi pirovneba dadis xolme.

hoda, amas winaT miTxra, _ qalbatono

Tako, Cven, rigiTi moqalaqeebi,

ase vuyurebT _ korufcioneri

da gavrilovis momxre

kobaxiZe iqneba Tu korufcioneri

da kosaCovTan bodiSis

momxdeli burjanaZe, amas

CvenTvis mniSvneloba ar aqvso.

_ amiT risi Tqma gindaT?

_ siaxlesa da garkveuli koreqtivis

Setanas xalxi iTxovs.

amitom ar mesmis, es viRacebSi

gaRizianebas ratom iwvevs. ai,

magaliTad, ramdenime dRis win

mTeli Cemi samegobro rekavda

da kiTxulobda, opoziciis samomavlo

gegmebis gacnobisas,

gigi ugulavas Semdeg, meore gamomsvleli

ratom iyo qali,

romelic ubloko statusis momxrea

da romelic mxolod

ruseTis aqtiuri mxardaWeriT

ki ara, igive 7 noembris „gapravebiTac”

gamoirCevao?!

_ „7 noembris gapraveba” ra

aris?

_ darbevebi mogvianebiT aRar

Tako Carkviani:

`roca opoziciis

gegmas nulovan

partias

acxadebineben, ukve

veWvob, rom amas

viRac specialurad

akeTebs~

moewona, Torem 7 noembris darbeva

9 noembers parlamentSi

„gaaprava”, anu es SerCeviTi samarTlis

tipuri nimuSia. erTi

sityviT, adamianebi kiTxuloben,

am qals opoziciis gegma ratom

gamoacxadebineTo?

_ es kiTxva mec maqvs da

Tqven, rogorc opoziciis erTerTma

liderma, mipasuxeT: bur-

janaZes am kart-blanSs vin

aZlevs da, saerTod, opoziciam

aqciebis 15 maisamde gadavade-

`ki batono, gavxsnaT kartebi. Jurnalistebma

miTxres, burjanaZem ganacxada, Tako Carkvians

CemTan piradi interesi aqvso da cota

gamikvirda. axla, romelime politikosTan ra

piradi interesi unda mqondes an raSi

mainteresebs, magram saqarTvelosTvis

veqtoruli aRreva kargi ar aris, radgan es

nihilizms iwvevs. Cvens mitingebze erTi Zalian

saintereso da kargi pirovneba dadis xolme.

hoda, amas winaT miTxra, - qalbatono Tako,

Cven, rigiTi moqalaqeebi, ase vuyurebT -

korufcioneri da gavrilovis momxre kobaxiZe

iqneba Tu korufcioneri da kosaCovTan

bodiSis momxdeli burjanaZe, amas CvenTvis

mniSvneloba ar aqvso~

bis gadawyvetileba ratom mi-

iRo, anu am ideis avtori vin

aris?

_ amaze pasuxi ar maqvs, Tumca

sxdomebis wamyvani da yvelaze

aqtiuri bokeriaa xolme.

marTalia, ruseTumeobas ar

vabraleb, magram faqtia, rom

bokeria opoziciaSi rusul veqtors

acocxlebs!

vkiTxulob xolme, _ es rusuli

veqtori ras gvaZlevs, roca

nulovani reitingi aqvs-meTqi?

magram pasuxs ver mcemen. saer-

Tod, xalxi Zalian vaJkaci da

brZenia _ saqarTveloSi rusuli

veqtori gaanula!

hoda, axla vkiTxulob: xalxis

winaaRmdeg ratom unda wavideT?

obieqturi viqnebi da aqve

vityvi: mixeil saakaSvils SeniSvnebs

kargad aZleven xolme.

_ ukacravad, es ra SuaSia?

_ saakaSvilis partiis wevri

ar var da arc vapireb, rom

gavxde, magram politikuri analizis

dros situacia realurad

unda SevafasoT.

_ anu?

_ saakaSvils, kacs, romelsac

erTmilioniani amomrCeveli

hyavs, eubnebian, Sen gaiwieo da

am dros politikur TamaSSi nulovani

rusuli veqtori Semogyavs.

kiTxvas vsvam da vinmem mipasuxos:

okupirebul saqarTveloSi

xalxisgan ganulebuli

rusuli veqtori ras gvaZlevs?

_ am kiTxvas opoziciis e. w.

Sida sxdomebze Tu svamT xo-

lme?

_ Sida sxdoma rad minda,

roca teleeTersa da beWdur

medias ar vtoveb, amaze ar visaubro.

roca xuTasjer ityvi da

ar esmiT, mere xuTasmeerTed

imas gavakeTeb, rasac saWirod

miviCnev. aba, bokerias Wkuaze

xom ar vivli?

mxolod Cemi azri ki araa,

aramed yvelani vxedavT, rom

xalxis dakveTa aseTia _ opoziciaSi

koreqtivebis Setana!

24 N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.


aucileblad dainiSneba!~

`xalxTan mogeba ar arsebobs!

xelisufleba mogebuli Tundac imitom veraa,

rom mediaciis gamo dasavleTis amxela jgufi

Camovida, anu amiT msofliom mxolod ki ar

dainaxa, aramed daimaxsovra kidec, rom

òcneba~, mapatieT da, iseTi idiotia,

krizisidan qveynis gamosayvanad elementarul

nabijebsac ver dgams~

_ mere, kiTxva ar gaqvT, ra-

tom, maincdamainc, 15 maisi da

ara, vTqvaT, 15 aprili?

_ jer erTi, kovidis ambebia

da Wirs.

_ ra Wirs?

_ xalxTan samuSaoa.

_ sxvaTa Soris, 31 oqtom-

bris arCevnebis win, bokeriam

da misma meuRlem, rogorc max-

sovs, xalxTan imuSaves, magram

foTSi erTi procentic ver

aiRes...

_ saqmec es aris! ise, Cemi

partiis _ „kanonisa da samarTlis”

saxeliT vambob, rom

garkveuli SeTavazebebi gvaqvs.

_ kerZod?

_ koreqtirebaze minda,

davilaparakoT. Tu Cvens winadadebebs

miiReben, gamixardeba.

ar miiReben da ar minda, procesi

daziandes.

pirdapir vityvi: erTobas

rusul veqtorTan erTad ar

miviCnev warmatebad da swored

amitom vRelav, rom Tu xalxis

dakveTa ar Sesruldeba, erToba

ki ar daingreva, aramed yvelaferi

CamoiSleba! veravin SemekamaTeba,

rom saqarTveloSi

xalxis dakveTa rusuli veqtori

ar aris! yvela troli

araa da Sevidnen, naxon, social-

ruseTis msaxurma kobaxiZem cxvirSi

ar mogvartyas, _ me Tu

gavrilovis Semomyvani var, kosaCovTan

bodiSismomxdeli da

„putinis qali” mand giziTo.

amis sababi aravis unda mivceT,

es swori araa da CemTvis gaugebaria,

rom amboben, gaiwevao.

rom aris, ra procenti moaqvs

da Tu gaiweva, ras waiRebs? Tu

rusuli veqtori gaiweva, opoziciidan

ojaxis wevrebis xmebze

mets ras waiRebs?

_ e. i., im taim-autiT, romel-

ic opoziciam 15 maisamde aiRo,

mogebuli „ocneba” darCeba,

ara?

_ ara, ase ver vityviT.

_ ratom?

_ yvelafers muSaoba aCvenebs.

_ ras gulisxmobT?

_ 15 maisisTvis kargad momzadebul

da gaweril aqcias.

saerTod, „ocneba” am taimautiT

ki ara, verafriT igebs!

_ amas ris safuZvelze am-

bobT, qalbatono Tako?

_ xalxTan mogeba ar arsebobs!

xelisufleba mogebuli

Tundac imitom veraa, rom mediaciis

gamo dasavleTis amxela

jgufi Camovida, anu amiT msofliom

mxolod ki ar dainaxa,

aramed daimaxsovra kidec, rom

bolos da bolos, saqarTveloSi,

gaero-s monacemebiT, 150

aTasi bavSvi SimSilobs da amitom

„ocneba” ukve damarcxebulia!

aravis veubnebi, gaqri da

aorTqldi-meTqi _ es Cemi saqme

araa da yvelafers xalxi gadawyvets,

magram „nulovani”, anu

xalxis mier ganulebuli rusuli

veqtori ukve ise gaTamamda,

rom bedavs da mikrofoniT opoziciis

samoqmedo gegmas warmoadgens!

es opoziciis strategiuli

Secdomaa da amaSi darwmunebuli

var!

_ e. i., gjeraT, rom „ocnebis”

uaris miuxedavad, vadamde-

li arCevnebi mainc dainiSneba?

_ diax, aucileblad dainiSneba.

_ ra iciT?

_ Tu gaxsovT, molaparakebebis

CaSlis wina dRes, „tv pirvelis”

eTerSi vTqvi, optimisti ki

var, magram am xelisuflebisgan

yvelafers velodebi-meTqi.

_ diax, maxsovs, es gancxade-

ba rom gaakeTeT...

_ rusuli oligarqiuli

mmarTveloba yovelTvis bedavs,

rom xalxi bolo wuTamde gaaCeros,

magram, sabolood, mainc

marcxdeba. „ocnebasac” ufro

didi marcxi elis!

am dros ki eseni miSas daetaknen,

gaiwieo, magram me an

Tqven ra ufleba gvaqvs, rom

kacs Tavisi erTmilioniani partiidan

gaweva movTxovoT? ai,

magaliTad, kako boboxiZe vin

aris, rom saakaSvils uTxras,

trotuarze iaros Tu ra qnas?

is politikur TamaSs politikurad

sworad TamaSobs... amasobaSi

ki nulovan partias opoziciis

gegmas acxadebineben. amitom

ukve eWvi mepareba, amas

viRac specialurad akeTebs.

_ risTvis?

_ procesi rom Cavardes!

_ qalbatono Tako, winaswar

icodiT, rom opozicia aqcieb-

is gadadebas 15 maisamde apir-

ebda Tu amis Sesaxeb, rogorc

ityvian, laivSi gaigeT?

_ im sxdomaze, sadac es gadawyvetileba

miiRes, ar vyofilvar.

`saakaSvils, kacs, romelsac erTmilioniani

amomrCeveli hyavs, eubnebian, Sen gaiwieo da am

dros politikur TamaSSi nulovani rusuli

veqtori Semogyavs. kiTxvas vsvam da vinmem

mipasuxos: okupirebul saqarTveloSi xalxisgan

ganulebuli rusuli veqtori ras gvaZlevs?~

ur qselSi xalxi ras wers.

_ ras wers?

_ koaliciur mTavrobamde

ndobiT unda mivideT.

_ ra Tqma unda.

_ aseTi radikaluri situacia

rodemde unda iyos? Cemi,

rogorc am qveynis Wirisuflis,

gamosavali aseTia.

_ aba, rogori?

_ qveyanas am Cixidan koaliciuri

mTavroba gamoiyvans, magram

koaliciur mTavrobamde

rom mivideT, xalxi unda gvendos,

ndobis upirvelesi faqtori

ki veqtoris gamokveTaa,

rac baltiis qveynebma, Tavis

droze, ukve gaakeTes.

_ damisabuTeT, ndobis up-

irvelesi faqtori veqtoris

gamokveTa ratom aris?

_ roca gavrilovis samarcxvino

Semoyvanaze vsaubrobT, sa-

Sualeba unda gvqondes, rom

„ocneba”, mapatieT da, iseTi

idiotia, krizisidan qveynis gamosayvanad

elementarul nabijebsac

ver dgams. mokled, axlave

vambob, rom „ocneba” wagebulia,

magram imazea saubari, saqarTvelo

kidev ramden xans gawvaldeba.

minda, nakleb droSi ganvi-

Tardes movlenebi, Torem „ocneba”

wava da gamorcxulia, ase

ar moxdes! es mxolod Cemi survili

ki araa, yvelafers ase Tavad

istoria daalagebs!

yvelafers Tavi rom davaneboT,

xelisuflebam vaqcina jer

rodis SeukveTa, mere sacodavad

43 aTasi Semoitana da mosaxleobis

naxevaric araa acrili.

weRandeli Tqmisa ar iyos, sawarmoebi

ar muSaobs da SimSilia!

yvelaferi gaubedurebulia da

miwasTan iseTi garTxmuli saqarTvelo,

rac am xelisuflebam

uqna, arasodes yofila!

_ kerZod?

_ cota xanSi procesi sxvagvarad

wava da Cveni partnioris

(aSS-s vgulisxmob) CarTulobiT,

es xelisufleba Seicvleba, oRond

piradad me koaliciur

mTavrobas vemxrobi!

diax, siSvide rom movipovoT

da radikalizacia moispos, is

milioni amomrCeveli saarCevno

yuTebTan unda mivides da boboxiZe

iqneba, petre Tu pavle, gaiwie

da gamoiwies ZaxiliT, ukacravad

da, Tavi uxerxul mdgomareobaSi

ar unda Caiyenos!

_ vadamdeli arCevnebis da-

niSvnas rodisTvis elodebiT?

_ es xelisufleba Zalian

utvino rom ar iyos, vadamdeli

arCevnebis TariRad 2022 wels

daasaxelebda, magram raxan situacias

ase Zalian amwvavebs, yvelaferi

SesaZloa, gacilebiT

adrec moxdes!

N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

25

„qristian-demokratiuli

moZraobis” lideri goCa jo-

jua, romelsac politikuri

moRvaweobis mravawliani sta-

Ji da gamocdileba aqvs, „qro-

nika+~-sTan opoziciis mier

daSvebul Secdomebze Riad

saubrobs.

_ batono goCa, evropam

gadagvagdo?

_ aseT Sefasebas ar gavakeTeb.

_ ratom?

_ imasac mniSvneloba aqvs,

evropas Tavad Cven ra davanaxeT.

_ ra davanaxeT?

_ erTi mxriv, aris xelisufleba,

romelmac arCevnebi

gaayalba da, meore mxriv, sakiTxavia,

opoziciurma partiebma

ra gavakeTeT saimisod, rom

igive evropisTvis dagvenaxvebina,

xelisuflebis Secvlis

SemTxvevaSi, ras miiRebs.

_ anu?

_ saqarTvelo stabiluri

saxelmwifo iqneba stabiluri

xelisuflebiT, Tu gaurkvevloba

gvelis, risic yvelas eSinia?

_ „gaurkvevlobaSi” ras

gulisxmobT?

_ simarTle giTxraT, evropelebisgan

mets velodiT. yovel

SemTxvevaSi, vimedovnebdiT,

rom arCevnebi adekvaturad Sefasdeboda.

saerTod, yvelasTvis

TvalnaTelia, rogori formebiT

gaayalbes, magram yvelafer

amis miuxedavad, dasavleTma

ver dainaxa, xelisuflebis

Secvlas ra mohyveboda.

opozicia ambobs, rom saqarTveloSi

erTpartiuloba unda

damTavrdes da xelisuflebaSi

koaliciuri mTavroba movides,

magram, Cemi azriT, ver Sev-

ZeliT, rom saamisod Sesabamisi

mzaoba gamogveCina.

_ es Tema ganvavrcoT...

_ im politikurma partiebma,

romlebmac saarCevno barieri,

xelisuflebis daTvliT,

gadalaxes, arCevnebs naxevrad

an iribad legitimacia misces.

_ rogor?

_ xelisuflebasTan mosalaparakeblad

maT gareSe dasxdnen,

viszec CaiTvala, rom barieri

ver gadalaxes. mokled, am

kuTxiT opozicias saerTo

pozicia ar hqonda.

_ erTi sityviT, batono

goCa, saubari iqiTken migyavT,

rom evropa opoziciaSi sando

partniors ver xedavs?

_ saubari sandoobaze ar

aris.

_ aba, razea?

_ es politikuri speqtri

26


`yvela, vinc parlamentSi Seva,

molodini ar gamarTlda: „oc-

vano pavliaSvili

neba” verc evropelebis CarTu-

goCa 595 48 35 85 lobiT movida gonze da opoziciis

erTi moTxovnac ar daak-

mayofila. „antiocnebelebi” yvelaferSi, cxadia, ivaniSvilis

gunds sdeben brals, Tumca, mogexsenebaT, yvela medals ori

mxare aqvs. hoda, Cvenc ase davsvaT sakiTxi: garkveuli Sec-

domebi opoziciamac xom ar dauSva?

aris Tu ara mzad, rom, magaliTad,

xval xelisufleba gadaibaros.

_ e. i., problema, xelisuflebasTan

erTad, opozicia-

Sic aris. sxvaTa Soris, ram-

denime dRis win evrokavSiris

erT-erTma gavlenianma warmo-

madgenelma pirdapir Tqva,

euTo-s daskvniT, 31 oqtombris

arCevnebi ar gayalbebulao

da iqve dasZina, Cveni gadasawyveti

araa, saqarTvelo-

Si vadamdeli arCevnebi dain-

iSneba Tu arao. es ra mesijia,

batono goCa?

_ euTom Tqva, arCevnebi

konkurentunarian garemoSi

Catarda, magram Zalian bevri

darRveva iyoo.

_ gulwrfelad vTqvaT:

darRvevebi gayalbebas ar ni-

Snavs. vcdebi?

_ imisTvis, rom yvelaferSi

gaverkveT, aucilebelia, rom

Cven garSemo arsebuli situaciac

gaviazroT, anu kavkasia-

Si, yarabaRis konfliqtis, ase

vTqvaT, dasrulebis Semdeg,

ruseTis gavlena seriozulad

Zlierdeba. yovel SemTxvevaSi,

azerbaijanSi rusuli samxedro

SenaerTebi ukve oficialurad

dganan. marTalia, am SenaerTebs

samSvidobo misia aqvT,

magram ruseTis kontroli ga-

Zlierebulia. sxvaTa Soris,

nariSkinis gancxadebac Zalian

sayuradReboa, romelmac „qar-

Tul ocnebas”, praqtikulad,

uTxra, Tu aSS-isa da dasavle-

Tis direqtivebs ise ar Seasruleb,

rogorc wina xelisufleba

asrulebda da amis gamo

problemebi Segeqmneba, Cven

mzad varT, gverdiT dagidge-

To. erTi sityviT, ruseTma

„ocnebas” uTxra, Tu dasavle-

Ti „mogawveba” da amiT Sens xelisuflebaSi

yofnas safrTxe

daemuqreba, mxars dagiWero.

saerTod, saxelmwifoebic zustad

ise imarTebian, rogorc

ojaxi an nebismieri urTier-

Toba.

_ kerZod?

_ jerjerobiT saqarTvelos

xelisuflebis alternativa ar

dgas.

_ amas ratom ambobT?

_ saTanado protesti ar

aris. gulaxdilad Tu vityviT,

opoziciam ver SeZlo, rom ise-

Ti struqtura Camoeyalibebina,

romelic mosaxleobas daanaxvebda,

rom esa da es adamianebi

qveyanas am politikur-ekonomikur

krizisidan gamoiyvanen

da sxva problemebsac gadawyveten.

aseT situaciaSi dasavleTs,

rasakvirvelia, urCevnia,

rom erTgvari „lufti” daitovos

da Tuki ar Seicvleba,

arsebul xelisuflebasTan normaluri

urTerToba hqondes,

Tumca Tu xelisuflebis realur

alternativas dainaxavda,

maSin yvelaferi sxvanairad

iqneboda.

_ „sxvanairad” ras niSnavs?

_ afrika, kerZod, somali,

albaT, gaxsovT.

_ diax, magram es ra SuaSia?

_ sanam iseTi vinme ar gamoikveTa,

visac xelisuflebis

Secvla SeeZlo, dasavleTis

moqmedebebi Zalian frTxili

da mozomili iyo.

_ batono goCa, iribad im

jojua:

ìmis gamo, rom xalxi

quCaSi ar gamodis,

xalxs ki ara,

sakuTar Tavs unda

mosTxovon pasuxi!~

moarul xmas adasturebT, rom

molaparakebebs sami _ xelisufleba,

opozicia da dasavle-

Ti _ ki ara, realurad oTxi

monawile hyavs da es meoTxe

araoficialuri ruseTia, anu

erTmaneTs „ocneba” da opozicia

ki ara, sinamdvileSi, dasavleTi

da ruseTi elaparake-

bian, ara?

_ marTalia, ruseTi, rogorc

mxare, ar Cans, magram Sinaarsi

isaa, rasac ambobT. sxvaTa

Soris, am procesSi jer

aSS CarTuli araa, rac calke

faqtoria. amitom aSS-is moqmedebebs

unda davelodoT. aqedanve

Cans, rom es procesi male

`meliam Zveli xelisuflebis is politikuri

liderebi da Tanamdebobis yofili pirebi,

romelTa mimarTac, minimum, Zalian bevri

kiTxvis niSani arsebobs, `nacionalur

moZraobas~ moaSora, anu rogorc axla

amboben xolme, partiis rebrendingi gaakeTa

da partia mTlianad gadaaxalisa. amiT ki is

pozitivi Seqmna, rom igi mxolod

`nacmoZraobis~ lideri araa. melia is

adamiania, romelsac axali saxeebi TandaTan

Semohyavs da politikas is Zveli adamianebi

moaSora, romelTa mimarTac, marTalia,

dausabuTebeli, magram braldebebi arsebobs~

ar damTavrdeba da, vfiqrob,

aSS-is moqmedebebic ar daagvianebs.

saerTod, imas, TeTri

saxlis pozicia rogori iqneba,

gadamwyveti mniSvneloba eniWeba.

_ ratom?

_ weRandeli Tqmisa ar iyos,

opoziciam ver SevZeliT, imis

realuri struqtura dagvedo,

„ocnebis” Secvlis SemTxvevaSi,

daaxloebiT, ra konfiguraciis

xelisufleba iqneboda da es

konfiguracia qveynis marTvas

SeZlebda Tu vera.

_ batono goCa, vidre am

Temas ganvavrcobT, RaribaSvi-

lis mier briuselSi naTqvam

erT frazas gagaxsenebT, _ me

ar vwyvet, vadamdeli arCevnebi

dainiSneba Tu arao. gasage-

bia, rom kanoniT, nebismier

arCevnebs prezidenti niSnavs,

magram cxadia, RaribaSvilma

zurabiSvilze ar mianiSna. e. i.,

premierma isrebi ivaniSvil-

isken gadaxara?

_ RaribaSvilis am gancxadebas

ormagi gageba aqvs.

_ anu?

_ erTi mxriv, SegviZlia, vifiqroT,

am gancxadebiT RaribaSvilma

yvelas kidev erTxel

daanaxa, Tu vin aris qveynis

realuri mmarTvel-patroni,

meore mxriv ki standartuli

poza daiWira, _ gadawyvetilebas,

arCevnebi dainiSnos Tu

ara, qarTveli xalxi da, sabolood,

parlamenti iRebs,

radgan saqarTvelo saparlamento

respublikaao. RaribaSvils

imis gakeTeba ar SeuZlia,

rac gaxariam gaakeTa.

_ gaxariam ra gaakeTa?

_ gadadga. es gadadgoma pirdapir

ara, magram iribad, cxadia,

vadamdel arCevnebs ukav-

Sirdeboda. yovel SemTxvevaSi,

saprotesto moZraobis lider

nika melias dakaveba mxolod

erTi romelime politikuri

partiis lideris dakaveba ar

aris. melia mTeli opoziciis

liderad gamoikveTa. sxvaTa

Soris, meliam bevri iseTi ramis

gakeTebac SeZlo, risac

„ocnebas” sakuTari amomrCevlebis

umetesoba sTxovda.

_ kerZod?

26 N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.


CemTvis èlisaSvili 2 iqneba!~

_ meliam Zveli xelisuflebis

is politikuri liderebi da

Tanamdebobis yofili pirebi,

romelTa mimarTac, minimum,

Zalian bevri kiTxvis niSani arsebobs,

„nacionalur moZraobas”

moaSora, anu rogorc axla

amboben xolme, partiis rebrendingi

gaakeTa da partia mTlianad

gadaaxalisa. amiT ki is

pozitivi Seqmna, rom igi mxolod

„nacmoZraobis” lideri

araa. melia is adamiania, romelsac

axali saxeebi TandaTan

Semohyavs da politikas is Zveli

adamianebi moaSora, romel-

Ta mimarTac, marTalia, dausabuTebeli,

magram braldebebi

arsebobs.

_ melia iqiT iyos da,

opoziciam strategiis Camoyalibeba,

iqneb, imitom ver Se-

Zlo, rom Sida gavlenebisTvis

liderebi erTmaneTs Riad Tu

farulad ebrZvian?

_ ara.

_ aba?

_ vfiqrob, gamokveTili

lideri ar arsebobda da Seu-

Tanxmebloba politikuri simwifis

naklebobaze migvaniSnebs.

saerTod, saqarTvelos mosaxleobis

udidesi nawilisTvis

im liderebis umetesoba,

romlebsac opoziciaSi uyurebs,

isev Zveli „nacionaluri

moZraobaa”. amasTan, xalxi

verc imas xedavs, opoziciis

muSobaSi axali saxeebis monawileoba

rogori dozisaa.

amitom, roca kiTxuloben,

xalxi quCaSi ratom ar gamodiso,

pasuxi unda mosTxovon

xalxs ki ara, sakuTar Tavs.

_ opozicia, iqneb, imitomaa

araTanmimdevruli, rom moaruli

xmiT, misi zogierTi lideri

„ocnebis” wisqvilze asxams

wyals. sxvaTa Soris, am konteqstSi

miniSneba bokeriaburjanaZis

tandemze keTde-

ba...

_ bralis wayeneba ufro advilia,

vidre _ imis danaxva, Tu

ra dilemis winaSe idgnen Tundac

is liderebi, romlebic

fiqrobdnen, garkveuli daTmobebi

saWiroa, radgan opoziciuri,

Tundac es gadRabnili

erToba SenarCunebuliyo!

sxvaTa Soris, mxolod revoluciur

ki ara, Cveulebriv

saarCevno situaciaSic garkveuli

struqturizacia arsebobda,

anu yovelTvis iyo Stabi

Tu komiteti. amasTan, e. w.

erovnuli Tanxmobis dokumentebic

gvaxsovs. axla ki msgavsi

araferi gakeTebula.

_ ratom?

_ Salva naTelaSvilis ofis-

Si vikribebodiT, Tumca arc

reglamenti iyo gansazRvruli

da arc _ Temebis raodenoba.

metic, gadawyvetilebis meqanizmic

ki ar arsebobda. amitom

xSirad konsensusis principiT

vTanxmdebodiT da am konsensusis

umetesoba imiT iyo ganpirobebuli,

rom xelisuflebisTvis

Cveni sisuste ar dagvenaxvebina.

ai, magaliTad, plebiscitis

sakiTxze gadawyvetileba

swored amis gamo miviReT,

anu es Tema garkveulma adamianebma

imitom gaviziareT, rom

molaparakebebi ar CaSliliyo.

_ rigiTi adamianebi Tu vx-

vdebiT, cxadia, opoziciis

liderebic mixvdebodnen, rom

blebisciti blefi Tundac imitomaa,

rom arsebuli saarCevno

kodeqsiT Catarebis Sem-

TxvevaSi, „ocneba” im Sedegs

dadebs, rac Tavad unda. meT-

anxmebiT?

_ sxvanairad SevxedoT.

_ rogor?

_ vTqvaT, plebiscitze amomrCevlis

30-35 procenti movida

_ metis gamoyvanis resursi

ar arsebobs.

_ damisabuTeT, ratom?

_ Cven temperatura ise ver

N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

`kavkasiaSi, yarabaRis konfliqtis, ase vTqvaT, dasrulebis Semdeg, ruseTis

gavlena seriozulad Zlierdeba. yovel SemTxvevaSi, azerbaijanSi rusuli

samxedro SenaerTebi ukve oficialurad dganan. marTalia, am SenaerTebs

samSvidobo misia aqvT, magram ruseTis kontroli gaZlierebulia~

avwieT, rom igive plebiscitze

amaze meti amomrCeveli mivides.

mokled, Tu plebiscit-

Si monawileobas amomrCevlis

30-35 procenti miiRebs da

opozicia moigebs, maSin ivaniSvili

ityvis, _ xom xedavT, plebiscitSi

monawileoba amomrCevlis

40%-mac ar miiRo da

axali arCevnebi visi moTxovniT

unda Catardeso?

Tu plebiscits „ocneba”

moigebs, maSin opozicias salaparako

aRar eqneba.

erTi sityviT, plebisciti,

rogorc ganmuxtvis meqanizmi,

Tavidanve ar amarTlebda da

amis momxre piradad mec ar

viyavi, magram molaparakebebis

dros aseTi teqnikuri sakiTxebi

arsebobs, roca gamosavlad

raRac sakiTxi miiCneva, anu am

SemTxvevaSi, kompromisis sa-

ès adamianebi da, plus, Salva naTelaSvilis

ofisSi mimdinare molaparakebebis sxva

monawileebi calke rom Sekrebiliyvnen da

mTeli rigi gadawyvetilebebi mieRoT, amiT

meore politikuri centri Seiqmneboda. aseve

imis demonstrirebac moxdeboda, rom

parlamentSi Sesvlis gzas ar vitovebdiT.

amitom evropeli partniorebi aseve

amerikelebic da Tundac rusebic am centrs

realur Zalad aRiqvamdnen, Tan iZulebuli

gaxdebodnen, rom òcnebis~ xelisuflebaze

zewola ganexorcielebinaT!~

gani, realurad, is ki araa, vadamdeli

Catardes Tu ara. vadamdeli

arCevnebi is moTxovnaa,

romlamdec kompromisiT

unda mixvide!

_ SeiZleba, magram ramdenime

dRis win bokeriam ganacxada,

Tu sxva sakiTxebze SeT-

anxmeba moxdeba, parlamentSi

SevalT, radgan vadamdeli ar-

Cevnebis Tema gadavwyvitoTo.

batono goCa, es xom TamaSia?

_ SeiZleba, iseTi STabeWdileba

iqmneba, rom adamianebs

parlamentSi arSesvla Tavidanve

ar hqondaT gadawyvetili.

dRevandeli monacemebiT, parlamentSi

51 adamiani ar Sedis,

rac 2/3-ze metia.

_ es ra SuaSia?

_ es adamianebi da, plus,

Salva naTelaSvilis ofisSi

mimdinare molaparakebebis sxva

monawileebi calke rom Sekrebiliyvnen

da mTeli rigi gadawyvetilebebi

mieRoT, amiT meore

politikuri centri Seiqmneboda.

aseve imis demonstrirebac

moxdeboda, rom parlamentSi

Sesvlis gzas ar vitovebdiT.

amitom evropeli partniorebi

aseve amerikelebic da

Tundac rusebic am centrs realur

Zalad aRiqvamdnen, Tan

iZulebuli gaxdebodnen, rom

„ocnebis” xelisuflebaze zewola

ganexorcielebinaT!

mokled, am centrs situ-

aciis realuri amoyiraveba

SeeZlo, magram dRes aseTi

centri ar arsebobs.

_ maSasadame, dRevandeli

mocemulobiT, mogebuli „ocnebaa”

imis Zaxili, ai, amas

vizamT, imas vizamT, „ocneba”

damTavrebulia da sanqciebi

gardauvaliao, gulze mjiRis

cema da meti araferia, ara?

_ Sansi jer kidev aris.

_ aba, ra Sansia, damis-

abuTeT...

_ is Sansi, razedac weRan

gelaparakeT...

_ imis Sansi, rom „ocnebas”

ukan daexia, Cemi azriT, maSin

iqneboda,

molaparakebebi,

Salva naTelaSvilis msgavsad,

sxva opozicionerebsac rom

daetovebinaT...

_ msgavsi nabiji SeiZleba,

kargadac iqnas gamoyenebuli

da cudadac.

_ anu?

_ viciT, rom sakonstitucio

sasamarTlo politikurad mar-

Tvadia, magram, miuxedavad amisa,

SeiZleba, rom politikurma

partiebma gancxadeba Seitanon,

konstitucia da reglamenti

darRveulia, amitom es

adamianebi parlamentSi romc

Sevidnen, amis ufleba ar aqv-

To.

_ ratom ar aqvT?

_ reglamentiT, deputatobaze

uaris Tqmis gancxadebis

ukan gamotana daweridan Svidi

dRis ganmavlobaSi SeiZleba.

Svidi dRis Semdeg ki es gancxadeba

ZalaSi Sedis. Sesabamisad,

parlamentSi Sesvlis SemTxvevaSi

es adamianebi kanondamr-

Rvevi parlamentarebi iqnebian.

_ batono goCa, opozicia

parlamentSi Tundac im motiviT

rom Sevides, raTa „ocnebas”

vadamdelis daniSvna aiZu-

los, es nabiji gamarTlebuli

iqneba?

_ konkretulad aravis davasaxeleb,

magram zogierTi gamosavals

eZebda, rom saxe SeenarCunebina

da parlamentSi ise

Sesuliyo, Tumca „ocnebam” amis

saSualeba ar misca.

ase rom, veravin verafers

dauSlis da yvelam TviTon

unda gadawyvitos, parlamentSi

Sevides Tu _ ara, magram yvela

is politikuri Zala, romelic

ambobda, arCevnebi gayalbdao

da axla parlamentSi Seva, ar

mgonia, elisaSvilze nakleb

dReSi aRmoCndes!

_ elisaSvili ra dReSia?

_ es Tea wulukianis misdami

mimarTvidanac kargad Cans.

mokled, Tu vinme parlamentSi

Seva, tyuilad ifiqrebs,

rom saxes SeinarCunebs.

plebisciti da politpatimrebis

ganTavisufleba Sesa-

Zloa, saxis SenarCnebis garkveuli

forma gamxdariyo, magram

„qarTuli ocneba” amis saSualebas

ar iZleva. sxva SemTxveva-

Si, yvela, vinc parlamentSi Seva,

CemTvis „elisaSvili 2" iqneba!

27

12 martidan danielsonma opoziciisa

da xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebTan

araerTi Sexvedra

gamarTa. Sexvedrebi gaimarTa

rogorc cal-calke, ise

saerTo formatSi. am procesebSi

monawileobdnen evrokav-

Sirisa da aSS-is elCebi, karl

harceli da keli degnani. TbilisSi,

18 marts gamarTul Sexvedraze,

romelic 10 saaTi

grZeldeboda, mxareebma SeTanxmebas

ver miaRwies.

kristian danielsoni saqar-

TveloSi 12 marts Camovida da

qveyana 14 marts unda daetovebia,

Tumca mogvianebiT, vizitis

gaxangrZliveba gadawyvita

da ganacxada, rom mxareebs

konsensusis misaRwevad meti

dro sWirdebodaT.

saqarTveloSi, molaparakebebis

paralelurad, briusel-

Si premier-ministris viziti

gaimarTa. vizitis farglebSi

yvelaze xmauriani aRmoCnda evrokavSiris

sagareo politikisa

da usafrTxoebis umaRles

komisar Jozef borelis gancxadeba,

romelmac Tqva: „Cemi gadasawyveti

ar aris, unda Catardes

Tu ara axali arCevnebi

saqarTveloSi. erTaderTi,

rac SemiZlia vTqva, aris is,

rom euTo-m miiCnia es arCevnebi,

rogorc Tavisufali da samarTliani”.

am yvelafris paralelurad,

SesaZloa, amerikasa da ruseTs

Soris situacia daiZabos. ufro

konkretulad ki amis mizezi

SesaZlebelia, amerikis prezidentis

mier gakeTebuli gancxadeba

gaxdes. „vfiqrob, putini

mkvlelia da is aSS-is 2020

wlis arCevnebSi Carevis gamo

safasurs gadaixdis”, _ amis

Sesaxeb baidenma ABC-is eTer-

Si ganacxada.

am mocemulobaSi ra gzas airCevs

aSS saqarTvelosTan mimarTebiT?

ra perspeqtivebi aqvs

„qarTul ocnebasa” da opozicias

Soris molaparakebebs?

riT aixsneba is faqti, rom

evropam sakmarisi principuloba

ar gamoiCina?


„qronika+~ politolog nika

CitaZes esaubra:

_ batono nika, gasul kviras

dasrulda premier-ministris

15-17 martis viziti briusel-

Si. iyo molodini, rom iqidan

xelisuflebis misamarTiT sakmaod

kritikuli gzavnili gakeTdeboda,

Tumca evrokavSiris

maRali rangis warmomad-

genlebis gancxadebebi 2020

wlis saparlamento arCevnebis

legitimurobas kiTxvis niS-

28


èvropam ver Tu ar gamoiCina

19 marts saqarTvelodan ga-

nene injgia

emgzavra evropuli sabWos prez-

591 71 39 98

identis piradi warmomadgeneli

kristian danielsoni, romelic

erTi kviris ganmavlobaSi cdilobda „qarTul ocnebasa” da

opoziciur partiebs Soris, 2020 wlis saparlamento arCevneb-

is Semdeg Seqmnili politikuri krizisis daZlevis mizniT,

SeTanxmebis miRwevas.

nis qveS ar ayenebs. maT Soris,

evrokavSiris sagareo politikisa

da usafrTxoebis umaRlesma

komisarma Jozef borelma

gaakeTa pirdapiri gzavnili,

rom saqarTveloSi Tavis-

ufali arCevnebi Catarda. ra

gairkva briuselSi vizitiT da

raze mianiSnebs evroparlamentarebis

es konkretuli gancx-

adebebi?

_ SeiZleba iTqvas, rom evropam

ver Tu ar gamoiCina sakmarisi

principuloba. erTi mxriv,

TiTqos Seqmna imis imiticia,

rom rogorme saqarTveloSi

arsebuli konfrontacia saxelisuflebo

partiasa da opozicias

Soris mSvidobiani gziT

mogvarebuliyo. SesaZloa, hqondaT

kidec amis mcdeloba. Tumca

evropa ar iyo sakmarisad

principuli, gamomdinare iqidan,

rom 2020 wlis saparlamento

arCevnebSi aRiniSna mniSvnelovani

darRvevebi, rac asaxulia

sxvadasxva saerTaSoriso

avtoritetuli organiziciis

angariSSi. erT-erTi aseTi organizaciaa

Freedom house, romelmac

Tqva, rom saqarTvelo-

Si arCevnebis dros dafiqsirda

viTarebis gamwvaveba, amomrCevlis

daSinebisa da mosyidvis

faqtebi. saerTo jamSi, angariSSi

naTqvamia, rom oligarqiuli

mmarTveloba, Tavis mxriv,

aferxebs qveynis demokratiul

ganviTarebas. aRsaniSnavia,

rom Freedom house demokratiisa

da adamianis uflebaTa donis

gansazRvris mimarTulebiT

msoflioSi erT-erTi wamyvani

saerTaSoriso arasamTavrobo

organizaciaa. rac Seexeba eu-

Tos angariSs, batonma borelma

ganacxada, rom arCevnebi konkurentul

garemoSi Catarda,

rac asaxulia euTos angariSSi,

Tumca iq mxolod es ar weria.

rogorc Cans, borelma mxolod

Sesavali naweri waikiTxa, pirveli

ori winadadeba, radgan

daSinebasa da imaze, rom xandaxan

xelisuflebasa da centralur

saarCevno komisias Soris

zRvari gamqrali iyo, saerTod

araferi uTqvams.

_ borelis es gancxadeba,

sadac mxolod euTos daskvnis

dadebiT nawilzea gamaxvilebuli

yuradReba, riT SeiZleba

aixsnas? man mizanmimarTulad

gaakeTa „qarTuli ocneb-

is” sasargeblo gancxadeba?

_ ufro mgonia, rom borelma

„qarTuli ocnebisTvis” sasargeblo

gancxadeba gaakeTa.

ori varianti ganvixiloT: Sesa-

Zloa, man mxolod euTos daskvnis

dasawyisi nawili waikiTxa

da Semdgom gaakeTa gancxadeba,

_ aseT SemTxvevaSi es borelis

upasuxismgeblobasa da mis arakompetenturobaze

metyvelebs.

mas evrokomisiis prezidentis

Tanamdeboba ukavia, magram

Zalian bevri cnobili politikuri

moRvawe viciT dasavleTSi,

romelic xSirad garkveul

upasuxismgeblo gancxadebas

akeTebs. magaliTad, germania

mowinave qveyanaa evrokav-

SirSi, ekonomikuri ganviTarebisa

da bevri sxva TvalsazrisiT,

am qveynis yofili kancleri

gerhard Sroderi acxadebda,

rom saqarTvelom daiwyo

omi ruseTis winaaRmdego. radgan

germaniis kancleria, es ar

niSnavs, rom misi naTqvami realobas

Seesabameba, Sroders

nika CitaZe:

`rac Seexeba euTos angariSs, batonma borelma

ganacxada, rom arCevnebi konkurentul

garemoSi Catarda, rac asaxulia euTos

angariSSi, Tumca iq mxolod es ar weria.

rogorc Cans, borelma mxolod Sesavali

naweri waikiTxa, pirveli ori winadadeba,

radgan daSinebasa da imaze, rom xandaxan

xelisuflebasa da centralur saarCevno

komisias Soris zRvari gamqrali iyo, saerTod

araferi uTqvams~

`dasavleTSi

TavianTi

gancxadebebiT

TiTqos aqezebdnen

`qarTul ocnebas~

sakuTari interesebi hqonda

„gazpromTan”. aseve SegviZlia,

meore magaliTi moviyvanoT

„rusTavi 2"-is saqmeze, rodesac

dadgenileba gamoitanes

xelisuflebis sasargeblod da

Tavisufali mediis sawinaaRmdegod.

am SemTxvevaSic sasamarTlo

sxdomas germaneli

iuristi Tavmjdomareobda,

romelic, Tavis droze, acxadebda,

rom afxazeTs unda mieniWos

damoukidebloba, radgan

me-15 saukunemde igi imperia

gaxldaTo. am magaliTebidan

gamomdinare, dasavleTSic arseboben

adamianebi, romlebic

upasuxismgeblo gancxadebebs

akeTeben: an ruseTze arian gayidulebi,

an arakompetenturebi

brZandebian. dasavleTSic ar

aris yvela sufTa adamiani. ra

Tqma unda, saqarTvelo miiswrafis

evroatlatikur struqturebSi

integraciis mimarTulebiT,

magram iqac arsebobs

azrTa sxvadasxvaoba. igive evroparlamenti

rom aviRoT, igi

730-ze meti wevrisgan Sedgeba

da bunebrivia, yvela erT poziciaze

ar iqneba, maT Soris, saqarTvelos

sakiTxebis Sesaxebac.

Cven viciT, rom evropis

farglebSi ufro memarjvene

orientaciis mqone partiebi,

magaliTad, evropis saxalxo

partia, mxars uWers opozicias,

memarcxene orientaciis partiebi

ki ufro „qarTuli ocnebis”

mxares arian gadaxrili,

radgan mmarTveli gundi ufro

memarcxene partiaa. ase rom,

boreli an aragulwrfeli iyo,

an arakompetenturi. yovel SemTxvevaSi,

faqtia, rom man upasuxismgeblo

gancxadeba gaake-

Ta.

_ saboloo jamSi, opoziciuri

speqtri, romelic riggareSe

arCevnebs elis, bri-

uselisgan imedgacruebuli

darCa?

_ SegviZlia vTqvaT, rom imedgacruebuli

darCa, radgan

evrokavSirs meti principuloba

unda gamoeCina. Tavis droze,

amerikis SeerTebul StatebSi

daisva sakiTxi, sadac saubrobdnen,

daaxloebiT, 15 milioni

dolaris daxmarebaze kongresis

mxridan. es damokidebuli

iyo imaze, saqarTvelo ramdenad

ganaxorcielebda reformebs

demokratiis mimarTulebiT,

rac gulisxmobda sasamar-

Tlo sistemis damoukideblobas,

mis Tavsuflebasa da a. S.

evrokavSiris SemTxvevaSic msgavsi

faqtebi unda arsebobdes.

ra Tqma unda, ar aris sasiamovno,

roca sakuTar qveyanaze giwevs

saubari, rom evrokavSirma

sanqciebi unda dauwesos, magram

rodesac Sesabamisi reaqcia

ar aris, „qarTuli ocneba”

ufro Tamamdeba. RaribaSvilisTvis

mkacri pasuxi rom moe-

TxovaT tv „pirvelis” mier gavrcelebul

satelefono CanawerebTan

dakavSirebiT da ar

28 N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.


sakmarisi principuloba~

eTqvaT, rom 2020 wlis arCvenebi

mSvid garemoSi, demokratiulad

da konkurentulad Catarda,

xelisufleba iZulebuli

gaxdeboda, daTmobaze wasuliyo,

magaliTad, igive vadamdel

saparlamento arCevneb-

Tan dakavSirebiT, magram dRes

xelisuflebam dainaxa, rom

evropasTan gauvida. rodesac

am tipis umoqmedobas vxedavT,

ar SeiZleba ar gagvaxsendes

ciceronis sityvebi: „cud qmedebaze

uaresi aris umoqmedoba”.

rig SemTxvevaSi evropam

umoqmedoba gamoiCina an araswori

qmedeba ganaxorciela.

misasalmebelia, rom Sarl miSelma

molaparakebebi gamarTa

da Semdeg sakuTari warmomadgeneli

gamouSva, magram Tavidanve

realisturi midgoma

unda yofiliyo. evrokavSirs

unda Seeswavla, ra kompromisebi

iqneboda SesaZlebeli. xelisufleba

acxadebs, rom vadamdeli

arCevnebisa da plebiscitis

sakiTxi ar ganixileba,

opozicia ki amas moiTxovda.

aseve faqtebi arsebobs, arCevnebze

rogor miavlines „qarTuli

ocnebis” aqtivistebi saarCevno

ubnebTan. aseve iyo Jurnalistis

cemis faqtebi. danielsoni

yovedRe saqarTveloSi

ar aris, magram am faqtebs

saelCoebi xom afiqsireben?

saqarTvelos miswrafeba dasavlur

struqturebSi integraciaa,

magram ar unda dagvaviwydes,

rom dasavleTSi yvela

wmindani ar aris da Tu vinme

gancxadebas gaakeTebs, ar niSnavs,

rom yvela avtoritetia.

ra Tqma unda, Cven madloblebi

varT, rom saqarTvelos

mniSvnelovani finansuri daxmareba

gauwia rogor evrokav-

Sirma, ise amerikis SeerTebulma

Statebma da sxvadasxva saer-

TaSoriso safinanso institutma,

am mxriv ori azri ar arsebobs.

Tumca medals meore mxare

aqvs da Cveni kritika safuZvliania

dasavleTSi moRvawe

calkeuli politikosebis mimarT.

maTi cudi qmedeba an umoqmedoba

xSirad gamoixateba

Sesabamisi reaqciis arqoniT an

araswori gancxadebis gakeTebiT,

rac vnebs saqarTveloSi

arsebul viTarebas, xelisufleba

ki Tamamdeba, es aris realoba.

arCevnebze saubroben, rom

konkurentul garemoSi Catardao

da amas acxadeben ara mxolod

31 oqtombris arCevnebze,

aramed 21 noembers Catarebul

meore turzec. es Zalian upasuxismgeblo

gancxadebaa, radgan

21 noembers arCevnebSi monawileoba

mxolod erTma politikurma

partiam miiRo, „qarTulma

ocnebam” da misma momxreebma

da romel konkurentul

garemozea saubari, roca

opoziciam boikoti gamoucxada

meore turs?! mas saerTod

ar miuRia monawileoba.

_ premieris briuselSi

vizitis paralelurad, saqar-

`RaribaSvilisTvis mkacri pasuxi rom moeTxovaT tv `pirvelis~ mier

gavrcelebul satelefono CanawerebTan dakavSirebiT da ar eTqvaT, rom

2020 wlis arCvenebi mSvid garemoSi, demokratiulad da konkurentulad

Catarda, xelisufleba iZulebuli gaxdeboda, daTmobaze wasuliyo,

magaliTad, igive vadamdel saparlamento arCevnebTan dakavSirebiT, magram

dRes xelisuflebam dainaxa, rom evropasTan gauvida~

`TviTon aSS-is politikur wreebSic aris

azrTa sxvadasxvaoba Tu ra gzas airCeven

ivaniSvilis sanqcirebis mimarTulebiT.

arsebobs ori varianti: 1. Tvali daxuWos

saqarTvelos xelisuflebis garkveul

qmedebebze da uSualod moelaparakos mas,

rom saqarTvelos xelisufleba aiRebs

pasuxismgeblobas anakliis portis

mSeneblobaze da aseve imaze, rom

ganaviTarebs aSS-sTan samxedro

TanamSromlobas da xels Seuwyobs amerikuli

kompaniebis saqarTveloSi Semosvlas; 2. aSS-is

xelisufleba miiCnevs, rom Cveni qveynis

mmarTveli gundis moqmedebebi misTvis

miuRebelia, amitomac mimarTos meTods da

miiRos sanqciebi ivaniSvilis winaaRmdeg.

ivaniSvili SeiZleba ganxilul iqnes, rogorc

ruseTis kaci, romelic flobs aqciebs

`gazpromSi~. garda amisa, ivaniSvili axla

kuluarebSi imaleba, magram misi

`damsaxurebaa~, rom ver Sedga molaparakeba

xelisuflebasa da opozicias Soris. am

SemTxvevaSi, aSS gaaZlierebs garkveul

sanqciebs, maT Soris, ruseTTan daaxloebul

pirebze, ruseTis farglebs gareT~

TveloSi evropuli sabWos

prezidentis piradi warmomad-

geneli kristian danielsoni

erTi kviris ganmavlobaSi

cdilobda „qarTul ocnebasa”

da opoziciur partiebs Soris

SeTanxmebis miRwevas bolo sa-

parlamento arCevnebis Semdeg

Seqmnili politikuri krizisis

dasaZlevad, Tumca SeTanxmeba

ver Sedga da danielsoni

saqarTvelodan gaemgzavra.

ratom ver Sedga SeTanxmeba?

ra faqtorebma gamoiwvia

molaparakebebis uSede-

god dasruleba?

_ pirvel rigSi, madloba

unda gadavuxadoT danielsons,

romelmac Zalisxmeva ar daiSura

da mTeli kviris ganmavlobaSi

Sexvedrebs marTavda saa-

TobiT da cdilobda, rogorme

mxareebs kompromisisTvis mieRwiaT.

Tumca rodesac Sexebis

wertili ar arsebobs qarTuli

politikuri elitis farglebSi

da ara mxolod (Cven

viciT, rogori konfrontaciaa

xelisuflebis momxreebsa da

xelisuflebisadmi kritikulad

ganwyobil adamianebs Soris),

am viTarebaSi rogor Sei-

Zleboda raime kompromisis

gamonaxva? erTi mxriv, xelisufleba

acxadebs, rom is aranairad

daTanxmdeba vadamdel

arCevnebs, meore mxriv ki opozicia

acxadebs, rom SeTanxmebis

miRweva SesaZlebeli iqneba

mxolod da mxolod im SemTxvevaSi,

Tu xelisufleba daTanxmdeba

vadamdel arCevnebs.

aqedan gamomdinare, problemuri

iyo SeTanxmebis miRweva.

amas emateboda isic, rom dasavleTSi

TavianTi gancxadebebiT

TTiTqos aqezebdnen „qar-

Tul ocnebas”. sabolood, miviReT

is, rac iyo mosalodneli.

_ Cven araerTxel gvisaubria

sanqciebis Temaze da gangvixilavs,

ramdenad SesaZlebeli

iyo saqarTveloSi plax-

atniukis precedentis gameoreba,

roca moldovis arafor-

malur mmarTvelis oligarqia

2019 wels dasrulda, is sax-

elmwifos mitacebaSi amxiles

da aSS-m igi Sav siaSi Seiyvana.

mmarTvelobis stiliT plaxatniuksa

da ivaniSvils ams-

gavsebdnen da acxadebdnen,

maT Soris, opoziciis warmo-

madgenlebi, rom ivaniSvilic

igive beds gaiziarebda. dRevandeli

mocemulobiT, ramde-

nad realuria sanqciebis

Tema?

_ ra Tqma unda, SesaZlebelia,

sanqciebi ganxorcieldes,

pirvel rigSi, aSS-s mxridan.

„vfiqrob, putini mkvlelia da

is aSS-is 2020 wlis arCevnebSi

Carevis gamo safasurs gadaixdis”,

amis Sesaxeb gasul kviras

aSS-is prezidentma jo baidenma

telekompania „eibisis-

Tan” interviuSi ganacxada. am

SemTxvevaSi sainteresoa, ra

gzas airCevs aSS? yovel SemTxvevaSi,

igi dainteresebulia

ruseTis sazRvris siaxloves

Tavisi geopolitikuri gavlenis

gaZlierebiT. maT Soris,

pirvel rigSi, saqarTvelosa da

ukrainaSi rom garkveulwilad

ruseTs Seuqmnas problemebi.

TviTon aSS-is politikur wreebSic

aris azrTa sxvadasxvaoba

Tu ra gzas airCeven ivaniSvilis

sanqcirebis mimarTulebiT.

arsebobs ori varianti: 1.

Tvali daxuWos saqarTvelos

xelisuflebis garkveul qmedebebze

da uSualod moelaparakos

mas, rom saqarTvelos xelisufleba

aiRebs pasuxismgeblobas

anakliis portis mSeneblobaze

da aseve imaze, rom ganaviTarebs

aSS-sTan samxedro

TanamSromlobas da xels Seuwyobs

amerikuli kompaniebis saqarTveloSi

Semosvlas; 2. aSSis

xelisufleba miiCnevs, rom

Cveni qveynis mmarTveli gundis

moqmedebebi misTvis miuRebelia,

amitomac mimarTos meTods

da miiRos sanqciebi ivaniSvilis

winaaRmdeg. ivaniSvili

SeiZleba ganxilul iqnes, rogorc

ruseTis kaci, romelic

flobs aqciebs „gazpromSi”. garda

amisa, ivaniSvili axla kuluarebSi

imaleba, magram misi

„damsaxurebaa”, rom ver Sedga

molaparakeba xelisuflebasa

da opozicias Soris. am SemTxvevaSi,

aSS gaaZlierebs garkveul

sanqciebs, maT Soris, ruseTTan

daaxloebul pirebze,

ruseTis farglebs gareT.

_ bolo periodSi kide ufro

mkveTrad gamoCnda, rom xe-

lisuflebasa da opozicias

Soris SeTanxmebis perspeqti-

va bundovania. ra SemTxvevaSi

SeiZleba moxdes konsensusi?

_ saqarTveloSi problemis

mogvarebis perspeqtivebi ar

Cans. rac Seexeba imas, Tu ramdenad

SesaZlebelia konsensusi,

es damokidebulia aSS-is poziciaze.

Tu aSS saqarTvelos

dRevandel xelisuflebaze zewolas

ganaxorcielebs, am Sem-

TxvevaSi saqarTvelos xelisufleba

SesaZloa, iZulebuli gaxdes,

rom ufro konstruqciuli

iyos. aSS-ze am SemTxvevaSi

Zalian bevria damokidebuli.

29

„nacionaluri moZraobis” erT-

Sorena marsagiSvili

erTi lideri, giorgi botkoveli,

599 92 16 22

miiCnevs, rom saqarTvelos xe-

lisuflebam Secvala sagareo

kursi da CrdiloeTisken gadaixara. misi TqmiT, molaparake-

bebis CaSla amis naTeli magaliTi iyo. botkoveli ambobs, rom

es gadawyvetileba piradad ivaniSvilma miiRo. mas ki putinis-

gan aqvs davaleba miRebuli. opozicioneri darwmunebulia rom

dasavleTi „qarTul ocnebas” amas aRar apatiebs. mas sjera,

rom ruseTis sasargeblod gakeTebuli arCevani saqarTvelos

mosaxleobasac gamoafxizlebs.

ra motivacia gauCina mosax-

leobas

molaparakebebis

CaSlam? ratom ar aris axla

nihilizmis dro? ra dainaxa

dasavleTma da ra nabijebs

gadadgams is samomavlod? gabe-

davs Tu ara vinme opoziciidan

parlamentSi Sesvlas? _ amis

Sesaxeb giorgi botkoveli

„qronika+~-s esaubreba.

_ giorgi, nika melias dapa-

timrebidan erTi Tve gavida.

qarTul opoziciasTan erTad

mTeli civilizebuli samyaro

mis ganTavisuflebas iTxovs. am

dros gamodis irakli kobaxiZe

da ambobs, meliam qarTul sax-

elmwifos Seuracxyofa miayena

da amitom zis cixeSio.

_ nika melias qarTuli saxelmwifosTvis

Seuracxyofa arasdros

miuyenebia. nika meliam uari

ganacxada gavrilovis xarkis

gadaxdaze da amiT farda ahxada

yvelafers. man saqarTvelosa da,

masTan erTad, mTel msoflios

daanaxa „qarTuli ocnebis” realuri

saxe. 18 martamde viRacebs

jer kidev eWvi eparebodaT, rom

„qarTul ocnebas” saqarTvelo

ruseTis orbitisken mihyavda. 18

marts CaSlili molaparakebebiT

es eWvebi sabolood gaifanta.

aq imaze ki araa saubari, rom

mxareebs Soris SeTanxmeba ver

Sedga, „qarTulma ocnebam” pirdapir

CaSala molaparakebebi,

romelic evropeli partniorobis

mediaciiT imarTeboda. „qar-

Tulma ocnebam” Cvens evropel

partniorebs uari uTxra.

molaparakebebis bolo dRes,

anu 18 marts, saqarTvelos xelisufleba

mTeli dRe cdilobda,

rom procesi gaejanjlebina.

maTi mxridan Sexvedras arCil

TalakvaZe da irakli kobaxiZe

eswrebodnen. maT aranairi gadawyvetilebis

miRebis ufleba ar

hqondaT. gadawyvetileba miiRo

biZina ivaniSvilma. mas molaparakebebis

CaSla karga xania, gadawyvetili

hqonda. 18 marts es

„qarTulma ocnebam”, ubralod,

gaaforma. molaparakebebis CaSlis

Semdeg oficialurad gamoacxades,

rom saqarTvelo rusul

orbitaze unda dabrundes. „qar-

Tulma ocnebam” dasavleTs Riad

Seaqcia zurgi.

_ Tqveni azriT, dabrundeba

saqarTvelo rusul orbitaze?

_ ivaniSvils amis didi survili

aqvs, magram saqarTvelo rusul

orbitas arasdros daubrundeba.

_ aseTi darwmunebuli ratom

xarT?

_ am qveynis mosaxleoba ar

dauSvebs, rom saqarTvelom uari

30


`dasavleTi ivaniSvils

599 92 16 22 giorgi botkoveli:

Tqvas dasavlur kursze da ruseTSi

dabrundes. ruseTSi dabruneba

niSnavs imas, rom Cven uars

vambobT momavalsa da ganviTarebaze.

dasavleTma ukve icis, rom

„qarTulma ocnebam” sagareo kursi

Secvala. axla evropas Sesa-

Zlebloba eZleva, rom pirdapiri

Sefasebebi gaakeTos. maT Riad

uTxra saqarTvelos xelisuflebam,

rom ivaniSvils Cveni strategiuli

partniori saxelmwifoebis

azri ar ainteresebs. ivaniSvils

mxolod ruseTis azri

ainteresebs da yvelafers ake-

Tebs imisTvis, raTa es qveyana

rusul orbitaze moxvdes.

_ giorgi, „qarTuli ocneba”

ase Tavxedurad rom moiqca da

molaparakebebi CaSala, es

opoziciis brali xom ar aris?

opoziciam ramdenjerme daaan-

onseT saprotesto aqcia, magram

an gaauqmeT, an gadadeT.

_ aqciebis gadadeba am etapze

swori gadawyvetileba iyo. opoziciam

yvela Sansi gamoiyena, ra-

Ta raime saxis molaparakeba mainc

Semdgariyo. vfiqrobdiT,

rom mcire SeTanxmebas mivaRwevdiT.

es SeTanxmeba romelime

partiis interesi ki ar iyo, aramed

qveynis ganviTarebas unda

moxmareboda. opoziciam aqciebis

gadadebiT dasavleTs daanaxa,

rom mzad viyaviT, nawilobriv

daTmobebze wavsuliyaviT, raTa

qveyanaSi moxsniliyo politikuri

krizisi. politikuri krizisi,

mogexsenebaT, Tavis mxriv,

amZafrebs ekonomikur kriziss.

saqarTveloSi ki isedac umZimesi

ekonomikuri krizisia. mxolod

am mizniT gadado da gaauqma

opoziciam saprotesto aqciebi.

sruli pasuxismgeblobiT vacxadeb,

rom opoziciam yvelaferi

gaakeTa, raTa saqarTvelo arsebuli

krizisidan gamosulyo.

„qarTuli ocneba” im gziT wavida,

risi eWvic didi xania gvqonda.

maT amerikasa da evropas Riad

aqcies zurgi da qveyana krizisSi

datoves. maTTvis mTavaria,

ivaniSvilma is gegma Seasrulos,

rac mas putinma misca.

_ es xelisufleba ruseTis

davalebebs rom asrulebs, jer

kidev maSin iyo naTeli, nika me-

lias gavrilovis xarki rom

daakisres. im ybadaRebul gi-

raos vgulisxmob, romelic man

ar gadaixada da amis gamo zis

cixeSi.

_ nika melias dakaveba im formiT

da im winapirobebiT, rac am

process win uZRoda, pirdapir

miuTiTebs, rom es iyo moskovis

dakveTa. Cven movismineT gavrilovis

pirdapiri mowodebebi, rom

`dasavluri

kursidan

gadaxveva ar

unda davuSvaT!~

nika unda daeWiraT. mis dakavebas

rusuli media didi sixaruliT

gamoexmaura. aqamde viRacebs

xom egonaT, rom aq xelisuflebasa

da opozicias Soris midioda

Widaoba. seriozulad arc

Cvens gancxadebebs aRiqvamdnen,

roca vambobdiT, rom ivaniSvili

saqarTvelos CrdiloeTisken miaqanebda.

nikas dakavebis Semdeg

amaSi eWvi aRaravis unda Seeparos.

18 marts CaSlilma molaparakebebma

ki yvelafers farda axada.

_ eWvebi nariSkinis gancxade-

bebsac unda gaefanta, magram

irakli kobaxiZem opoziciasTan

daakavSira rusi Zalovani. man

nariSkins mouwoda, _ sTxove

opozicias, Semovidnen parla-

mentSio. viRacebi ifiqreben,

rom Tqven, opozicia, ruseTis-

gan imarTebiT.

_ kobaxiZis am mowodebam vi-

RacebSi SeiZleba, mcire eWvebi

gaaCina, magram aseTi Zalian cota

iqneba. saqarTveloSi ukve

yvelafers daerqva Tavisi saxeli.

xelisufleba ver ityvis, rom

opoziciam rame saxis molaparakebebi

CaSala. molaparakebebi

CaSala xelisuflebam da es sakuTari

TvaliT dainaxa evropam.

es dainaxa saqarTvelos mosaxleobamac.

Cven Tavidanve vicodiT,

rom xelisufleba dialogs CaSlida

da aranair daTmobaze ar

wamovidoda.

_ Tu icodiT, rom dialogi

CaiSleboda, ratom dasxediT

maTTan erT magidasTan? Suler-

Tan TamaSs rom azri ar aqvs da

mas magida unda auyiravo, es xom

cnobili ambavia.

_ vicodiT, rom „qarTuli

ocneba” yvelafers gaakeTebda

molaparakebebis CasaSlelad, magram

mainc davsxediT maTTan er-

Tad. CvenTvis mTavari iyo, qveyana

rogorme gamogveyvana arsebuli

krizisidan. SegveZlo, xisti

pozicia dagvekavebina da politikuri

qulebi dagvewera, magram

es qveyanas ar waadgeboda.

`nika melias dakaveba im formiT da im

winapirobebiT, rac am process win uZRoda,

pirdapir miuTiTebs, rom es iyo moskovis

dakveTa. Cven movismineT gavrilovis

pirdapiri mowodebebi, rom nika unda

daeWiraT. mis dakavebas rusuli media didi

sixaruliT gamoexmaura~

_ saboloo jamSi, mainc ve-

raferi argeT qveyanas da ar

sjobda, Tavidanve CaSliliyo es

molaparakebebi?

_ ar sjobda. Cven yvelaferi

gavakeTeT, rom Tundac mcire

SeTanxmeba mainc Semdgariyo.

evropam da amerikam icis, rom

opozicia mzad iyo, krizisis

daZlevis gzebze emuSava. qveynis

krizisidan gamoyvana saqarTvelos

xelisuflebam ar isurva.

krizisis dasruleba, samwuxarod,

mxolod maTze iyo damokidebuli.

_ amis Semdeg ra iqneba?

velodebiT, rodis Caereva

saqmeSi amerika?

_ amerikis pozicia CvenTvis

Zalian mniSvnelovania. saqarTveloSi

rogor ganviTardeba movlenebi,

es, pirvel rigSi, am qveyanaSi

mcxovreb adamianebzea damokidebuli.

_ damokidebulia, magram

xalxi dums.

_ darwmunebuli var, xalxi

Tavis saTqmels aucileblad

ityvis.

_ rodis ityvis xalxi Tavis

saTqmels?

_ Zalian male. saTqmels is

adamianebic ityvian, romlebsac

aqamde odnav kidev eparebodaT

eWvi, rom „qarTuli ocneba” saqarTvelos

ruseTisken miaqanebda.

axla maTac ician, Tu visTan aqvT

realurad saqme. ician, rom „qar-

Tuli ocneba” ruseTis interesebs

atarebs am qveyanaSi.

_ xalxma SeiZleba dainaxa

„ocnebis” namdvili saxe, magram

opoziciiTac imedgacruebulia.

ramdenjerme gadaido aqciebi.

vrceldeba informaciebi xelisuflebasTan

raRac kulu-

aruli molaparakebebis Sesaxeb.

opozicia ar gveubneba arc imas,

ra SeTavazebebi hqonda xelisu-

flebas.

_ saqarTveloSi mcxovrebi

mosaxleobis mTavari mizani da

sazrunavi aris am qveynis ganvi-

Tareba da misi ukeTesi momavali.

es maZlevs imis Tqmis safuZvels,

rom is Tavis sityvas aucileblad

ityvis da Zalian male.

SeiZleba, imaze malec iTqvas

saTqmeli, vidre Cven gvgonia.

_ saTqmeli xalxma arCevnebze

unda Tqvas, arCevnebi ki male ar

30 N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.


molaparakebebis CaSlas ar apatiebs~

iqneba. „qarTuli ocnebis” mo-

laparake Tavebma gviTxres, rom

momavali saparlamento arCevne-

bi 2024 wels Catardeba.

_ „qarTuli ocnebis” molaparake

Tavebi bevr rames amboben.

gamiWirdeba imis Tqma, Tu rodis

Catardeba Semdegi saparlamento

arCevnebi. erT rameSi ki Rrmad

var darwmunebuli _ „qarTuli

ocnebis” politikuri dasasruli

dadgeba Zalian male.

_ opoziciis warmomadgen-

lebisganac xSirad momismenia,

rom es xelisufleba male das-

ruldeba. Tqvenc igives ambobT.

ra gaZlevT amis Tqmis sababs?

Cven rogorc vuyurebT, es xe-

lisufleba ufro imyarebs

poziciebs.

_ amis Tqmis sababs, isev da

isev, xelisuflebis qmedebebi

maZlevs. am 9 wlis manZilze „qarTuli

ocneba” cdilobda, ise-

Ti STabeWdileba Seeqmna, TiTqos

is dasavluri kursis erTguli

iyo. mTeli am cxra wlis man-

Zilze maT TavianTi namdvili

sagareo kursis Cveneba arasdros

dasWirvebiaT. axlaxan dadga momenti

da „qarTulma ocnebam”

Riad aqcia zurgi Cvens dasavlel

partniorebs. maT dasavle-

Tis im qveynebs aqcies zurgi,

romlebsac saqarTvelosTvis mxolod

kargi undaT da es araer-

Txel dagvimtkices. erTxel ukve

vTqvi, magram mkiTxveli gameorebas

mapatiebs _ 18 martis CaSlili

molaparakebebi iyo is momenti,

romelmac yvelafers farda

ahxada.

_ farda yvelafers 2019 wlis

20 ivnisis sisxlian Ramesac aex-

ada, roca xalxi gavrilovis gi-

nebis gamo daasisxlianes. „qa-

rTuli ocnebis” ndoba rom ar

SeiZleba, esec 2019 welma gamoaCina,

roca ivaniSvilma sajar-

od dado piroba, 2020 wlis arC-

evnebi srulad proporciuli

sistemiT Catardeboda da Sem-

deg es cvlilebebi „ocnebas”

Caagdebina.

_ am ambebmac gamoaCina „qarTuli

ocnebis” saxe, magram Tavidan

bolomde is evropam gasul

kviras Seicno. Cven vnaxeT briuselSi

Casuli premieri, romelic

erTi xeliT dasavleTs elaparakeboda,

magram orive xeli,

faqtobrivad, ruseTisken hqonda

gaSverili. amaze Cveni dasavleli

partniorebi ase iolad ar

daxuWaven Tvalebs. amerikelebi

da evropelebi amaze piradad bi-

Zina ivaniSvils mosTxoven pasuxs.

_ ivaniSvils ratom mosTxoven

pasuxs, is xom wavida poli-

tikidan? oficialurad asea.

_ ivaniSvilis politikidan

wasvlis dajereba sasaciloa. is

arsad wasula. Tqven ra ggoniaT,

dasavleTma daijera, rom molaparakebebis

CaSlis gadawyvetileba

irakli kobaxiZem da arCil

TalakvaZem miiRes? maT TiToeuli

sityva ivaniSvilTan hqondaT

gavlili da SeTanxmebuli. amas

patara bavSvic ki xvdeba, es arc

gamocdil evropel diplomats

`18 martamde viRacebs jer kidev eWvi eparebodaT, rom `qarTul ocnebas~

saqarTvelo ruseTis orbitisken mihyavda. 18 marts CaSlili

molaparakebebiT es eWvebi sabolood gaifanta. aq imaze ki araa saubari, rom

mxareebs Soris SeTanxmeba ver Sedga, `qarTulma ocnebam~ pirdapir CaSala

molaparakebebi, romelic evropeli partniorobis mediaciiT imarTeboda.

`qarTulma ocnebam~ Cvens evropel partniorebs uari uTxra~

N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

gamoepareboda. dasavleTisTvis

zurgis Seqcevis gadawyvetileba

ivaniSvils am dReebSi ar miuRia.

es mas xelisuflebaSi mosvlis

dRidan hqonda dagegmili, rac

18 marts gaaxmovana sabolood.

axla yvelaferi Cvenze da Cvens

mosaxleobazea damokidebuli. im

xelisuflebis mmarTveloba,

romelic Cvens qveyanas okupantis

orbitisken miaqanebs, droze

unda dasruldes. am xelisuflebis

dasrulebamde didi dro

aRar aris darCenili. amaSi Rrmad

var darwmunebuli.

_ Tqven elodebiT, rom es

xelisufleba male dasruldeba.

xelisufleba ki imas elis, rom

opozicia parlamentSi Seva. amaze

yvelaze mets irakli kobax-

iZe saubrobs. is opozicias Teb-

ervalSic eloda parlamentSi,

magram maSin gumanma umtyuna.

_ axlac umtyunebs irakli

kobaxiZes gumani. ara mgonia,

dRes opoziciaSi vinmes aRmoa-

Cndes imis gambedaoba, rom parlamentSi

Sevides. saubaria im parlamentSi

Sesvlaze, romelic

arafriT gamoxatavs saqarTvelos

mcxovreblebis neba-survils.

_ opozicia Tu gamoxatavs

xalxis nebas?

_ ra Tqma unda, gamoxatavs.

Cven „qarTuli ocnebisgan” erTi

ram gangvasxvavebs: yvelafers

vakeTebT, rom im amomrCevlis

dakveTa SevasruloT, romelmac

arCevnebze mxari dagviWira. aseve

vcdilobT, im adamianebis nebac

àm 9 wlis manZilze `qarTuli ocneba~

cdilobda, iseTi STabeWdileba Seeqmna,

TiTqos is dasavluri kursis erTguli iyo.

mTeli am cxra wlis manZilze maT TavianTi

namdvili sagareo kursis Cveneba arasdros

dasWirvebiaT. axlaxan dadga momenti da

`qarTulma ocnebam~ Riad aqcia zurgi Cvens

dasavlel partniorebs. maT dasavleTis im

qveynebs aqcies zurgi, romlebsac

saqarTvelosTvis mxolod kargi undaT da es

araerTxel dagvimtkices~

gamovxatoT, romlebic aiZules,

xelisuflebis sasargeblod

gaekeTebinaT arCevani. „qarTuli

ocneba”, Cvengan gansxvavebiT, mxolod

erTi adamianis, biZina ivaniSvilis

nebas gamoxatavs. maT

is amomrCevelic ki ar ainteresebT,

vinc gulwrfelad misca xma.

_ ambobT, Cveni amomrCevlis

nebas gamovxatavTo. Tqvens

amomrCevels undoda, rom xa-

beiSvili, botkoveli da sxvebi

parlamentSi exila. Tqven iq ar

SedixarT da ranairad gamoxat-

avT maT nebas?

_ visac undoda, rom xabeiSvili,

botkoveli da maT mier

mxardaWerili sxva pirebi parlamentSi

exila, aucileblad ixilaven

maT iq. oRond es im parlamentSi

moxdeba, romelic

saqarTvelos mosaxleobis nebis

gamomxatveli iqneba.

_ xom ar ajobebda, parlamen-

tSi SesuliyaviT? da rogorc

elisaSvili ityoda, 60 mgels 90

muTaqa agewiokebinaT?

_ am parlamentSi Sesvla wylis

nayva da „qarTuli ocnebis”

danaSaulis gaTeTreba iqneboda.

vgulisxmob 31 oqtombers Cadenil

danaSauls.

_ samagierod, nika melia iqne-

boda Tavisudfali da arc

Tqvens ofiss daarbevda spe-

crazmi.

_ ar minda, trafaretulad

gamomivides, radgan am frazas

xSirad imeoreben, Tumca rac

realobaa, imis Tqma yovelTvis

SeiZleba: gisosebs miRma gamoketili

nika melia bevrad ufro

Taviusfalia, vidre Tanamdebobebze

mjdari irakli kobaxiZe

da arCil TalakvaZe.

_ melia rom Tavisufali da

„ocnebisTvis” saSiSia, es misi

baneris dacxrilvamac gamoaCi-

na.

_ esec magaliTia imisa, rom

„qarTul ocnebas” patimari nika

meliac aSinebs. Cvens ofiss 17

marts esroles. im dros me

partiis ofisSi viyavi. Jurnalistebma

komentari mTxoves da

vTqvi, rom amas irakli kobaxiZe

Cven dagvabralebda. gavida ram-

denime saaTi, gamovida kobaxiZe

da xeli Cvenken gamoiSvira, _

magaTi gakeTebuli iqnebao. Sssm

maleve daakava is piri, romelmac

nika melias baners cecxlsasroli

iaraRidan esrola. is adamiani

kaxeTis regionis mcxovrebi

aRmoCnda. ar gamovricxe, rom

amis Semdeg eTqvaT, am adamians

nika melias baneris dacxrilva me

davavale.

_ Tqven „qarTul ocnebas”

seriozulad uSliT nervebs da

xels. TqvenTvis dRemde ver

upatiebiaT, rom TelavSi sapre-

zidento arCevnebis orive turi

waagebineT. saparlamento arCevnebzec

seriozuli probleme-

bi SeuqmeniT xelisuflebas.

_ me ratom wavagebine arCevnebi?

_ es gadawyvetileba Telavelebma

miiRes. xelisuflebas vici,

rom ar movwonvar, isevev rogorc

sxva opozicionerebi. mar-

Tla mikvirs, kobaxiZem me rogor

ar damabrala nikas baneris dacxrilvis

organizeba? yvelaferi

win aris, SeiZleba, axla damabralos.

damabralebs da damabralos.

mis gancxadebebs seriozulad

aravin aRiqvams. Tan aq

sxva problemebia. molaparakebebi

CaiSala da saqarTvelos xelisufleba

Riad daadga ruseTisken

mimaval gzas, magram amis miuxedavad

yvelaferi mainc Zalian

magrad iqneba. axla mTavaria,

mosaxleobaSi nihilizmi ar gaCndes.

_ aseT viTarebaSi Znelia, ad-

amianebs nihilizmi ar gauCndeT.

_ mesmis, magram ramenairad

amas Tavi unda daaRwion. yvelafrisTvis

fardis axdam Cvens mosaxleobas

gacilebiT meti motivacia

unda SesZinos. mivmarTav

Cvens mosaxleobas da vTxov,

araviTari nihilizmi! gavagrZeloT

brZola imisTvis rom es

qveyana ganviTardes! Cven unda

davadgeT im gzas, romelic saqarTvelos

naTeli momavlisken

waiyvans. dasavluri kursidan

gadaxveva ar unda davuSvaT!

_ amas gulwrfelad ambobT,

Tu gindaT, rom Tqveni amom-

rCeveli gaamxnevoT, romelic

molaparakebebis CaSliT gabra-

zebuli da imedgacruebulia?

bevrma xelic ki Caiqnia.

_ amas gulwrfelad vambob.

ver dageTanxmebiT, rom xalxma

xeli Caiqnia. darwmunebuli var,

am adamianebSi ufro meti motivacia

gaCnda, vidre aqamde hqondaT.

yvelam gaacnobiera, rom

saqarTvelos Svela sWirdeba.

dasavleTis daxmareba da mxardaWera

Zalian bevrs niSnavs,

magram qveyanas, pirvel rigSi,

Cven unda vuSveloT.

_ marTla mxolod Cvenzea

damokidebuli, viqnebiT damoukidebeli

qveyana, Tu krasno-

daris mxared viqceviT?

_ ra Tqma unda, Cvenzea damokidebuli.

mjera qarTveli xalxis.

mravali omi gadagvitania da

fexze davmdgarvarT. axlac ase

iqneba. Cven danebebas ar vapirebT.

saqarTvelo ruseTis gubernia

ar gaxdeba!

31

599 97 25 55

istoriulad, karis eklesiebi

gvaris piradi sivrce iyo da saero kompleqsSi Sedioda,

romelsac sruliad konkretuli patroni hyavda. magaliTad,

rogoric iyo kaxeTSi avaliSvilebis, ColoyaSvilebis an vax-

vaxiSvilebis karis eklesiebi.

karis eklesiebi, igive saydrebi,

sajaro taZrebisgan swored

imiT gansxvavdeboda, rom misi

nagebobebi CaSenebuli an Cadgmuli

iyo sxvadasxva cixe-simagre-

Si, sasaxeleebis maxloblad. eklesiebs

hayvda karis moZRvaric,

romelic ojaxis aRmSenebeli

saydris mRvdladac miiCneoda.

alabaT, yvelas aqvs wakiTxuli

literaturaSi, Tu rogor

marTavdnen Cveni winaprebi uqmeebze

SabaTsa da kvira dRes vax-

Sams, igive trapezs, mas mere, rac

maTi moZRvari wirva-locvas aRavlenda,

aziarebda an zeTs acxebda

ojaxsa da soflis mrevls.

xSirad karis eklesiis sasuliero

pirebi Tavis ojaxiTve

eklesiis maxloblad mdebare patara

saxlebSi cxovrobdnen.

karis eklesiebs aseve hyavda

msaxurebi, e. w. mona qalebi, romlebic

mTeli cxovreba saydarSi

atarebdnen dros, Tumca mogzaurobdnen

kidec sxvadasxva saydarSi.

aseTma patara eklesiebma didi

roli Seasrula Sua saukuneebis

periodis ganaTlebaSic. karis

eklesiebis mSeneblobis, Tanamedrove

eniT rom vTqvaT, damfinanseblebi,

mowveul sasuliero

pirs jamagirsac Tavad uxdidnen,

raTa ojaxiT iq ecxovraT. aseve

garda saeklesio valdebulebebisa,

sasuliero pirebi, moZRvrebi

Tu diakvnebi, saswavlo mimarTulebiTac

iyvnen dasaqmebulebi,

rogorc Tavadis, iseve mimdebare

soflis bavSvebs ganaTlebas

aZlevdnen: aswavlidnen weras,

ukiTxavdnen saRvTo wignebs,

amecadinebdnen ariTmetikaSi, biologiasa

da astrologiaSic ki.

me-20 saukunis sabWoTa reJimma

karis eklesiebis roli da

tradiciebi srulad gaanadgura,

Secvala da gaauqma eklesiis instituti.

saydrebi ki darCa upatronod.

sajaro taZrebisgan

gansxvavebiT, mxolod kedlebiRa

inaxavda maT istorias, amosulma

balaxma ki bevri kvalic waSala,

Senoba ngrevaSi gadaiyvana da

kulturuli memkvidreobis Zeglebi

oblad aqcia. mokled, upatrono

eklesias tura-mela Seesia.

bolo 20-wleulis manZilze

sapatriarqom karis eklesiebis

daregistrirebac iseve moiTxova,

rogorc sajaro taZrebi

hqonda sakuTrebaSi. amis safuZvels

ki saeklesio konkordati

aZlevda.

dRevandeli suraTiT, Sesa-

Zlebelia, praqtikulad, nebismieri

kompleqsis moTxovna sapatriarqos

mier konkordatze

dayrdnobiT da miTiTebiT.

aseTi faqtebi ukve moxda da

kidev ganmeordeba. magaliTad,

ase iyo maxvilaZeebis cixis SemTxvevaSi

sofel abisSi, aseve

mzovreTSi. orivegan axla monasteria.

arada, Tavis droze, orives

hyavda patroni, feodali,

romelTac aaSenes saero kompleqsi

Tavisi arsiT, sadac Sedioda:

cixeebi, karis eklesia, sxvadasxva

nageboba.

es kompleqsebi umtkivneulod

32

maka mosiaSvili


ver gaiyofa, radgan igi erTiani

organizmia da Tu karis eklesia

miekuTvneba sapatriarqos, rac

gulisxmobs perimetrze erTi an

or metris mozomvas, es saqmes

ver uSvelis.

magaliTad: SesaZloa im motiviT,

rom eklesia funqcionirebda

universitetis pirvel

korpusSi, odesme, konkordatis

moSveliebiT, sapatriarqom zustad

igive logikiT moiTxovos

universitetis am korpusis saku-

TrebaSi gadacema.

xom TiTqos daujerebeli

Cans, magram principi da logika

am moTxvnisa igivea, rac cixesimagris

gadacemis dros, radgan

iq karis eklesiaa.

urbanolog qeTi diRmelaSvilis

SeSfoTebas iwvevs kidev er-

Ti cnobili cixis konkordatis

wesiT sapatriarqosTvis gadacema.

saqme exeba manavis cixes. manavis

cixe _ cixe-simagre garekaxeTSi,

sagarejos municipalitetis

sofel manavis axlos, maRal

mTaze mdebareobs. aq iyo feodaluri

kaxeTis ukanaskneli periodis

erT-erTi centri. vaxuStis

ganmartebiT: hereTis mTis

Zirs, manavi, sadaca ars Zveladi

cixe da aw Semusvrili. cixis

citadelis SuaSi jgufad dgas

mcire zomis sami eklesia. maTgan

yvelaze adreulia CrdiloeTiT

mdgari. mis Sida kedlebs moxatvis

kvali ar etyoba, fasadebi

ki kargad Tlili Sirimis qviTaa

Semosili.

manavis cixe 2018 wlidan sapatrirqos

sakuTrebaSia.

qeTi diRmelaSvili cixis

didi nawilis gadacemas ase

gamoexmaura:

„ai, ityvi da isev Sen gamodixar

cudi da eklesiis mteri, magram

rom ar vTqva, ar SemiZlia.

rodis aqeT gaxda manavis cixe

samonastro kompleqsi anda saeklesio

centri, rom dRes manavis

cixe sapatriarqos sakuTrebaa?

ra xdeba, sadac erTi naeklesiari

da samlocvelo idga, yvelgan

monasteri unda gavxsnaT?!

ar arsebobs saqarTveloSi cixe,

romelsac Tavisi samlocvelo

ar hqonoda. ra gamodis, rom

mTeli saqarTvelo erTi didi

monasteri iyo?! amas rom Tavi

davaneboT, romelma idiotma

moifiqra, rom cixe Suaze gaeyo

da naxevari daeregistrirebina

sapatriarqosTvis, xolo meore

naxevari _ ara?! ra, sxvadasxva

cixea zeda da qveda cixeebi?!

ukve marazmSi gadavdivarT. saxelmwifod

ki ara, mgoni erT did

Sua saukuneebis saeklesio safeodalod

viqeciT!”

faqtia, rom sapatriarqos

mier moSveliebuli konkordati

saero wesebs arRvevs. xval me

rom Cems ezoSi saydari avaSeno

Cemi ojaxis gvarisa da mezoblebisTvis,

sapatriarqos SeuZlia,

rom erT mSvenier dRes Cemi saxlic,

ezoc da saydaric Tavis

balansze daaregistrirebinos.

sapatriarqos

mier miTvisebuli

karis saydrebi da

cixe-simagreebi

da SeiZleba mkiTxvelma ikiTxos:

bolos da bolos, ra aris

es konkordati?

saqarTvelos konstituciuri

SeTanxmeba, agreTve cnobili

rogorc konkordati _ saqarTvelos

Sidasaxelmwifoebrivi normatiuli

xelSekruleba, romelic

dadebulia saqarTvelos

saxelmwifosa da saqarTvelos

samociqulo avtokefaliur mar-

Tlmadidebel eklesias Soris

2002 wels. saxelmwifos mxridan

konstituciur SeTanxmebas xels

awers saqarTvelos prezidenti

da amtkicebs saqarTvelos parlamenti.


SeTanxmeba gansazRvravs saqar-

Tvelos samociqulo avtokefaliuri

marTlmadidebeli eklesiis

samarTlebriv mdgomareobas,

iuridiul statuss, urTierTobas

saxelmwifosTan, sazogadoebriv

urTierTobaTa

sxva subieqtebTan.


SeTanxmebis mTavar Rirsebad miiCneven

im garemoebas, rom masSi

Tanabradaa ganmtkicebuli saqarTveloSi

marTlmadidebluri

eklesiis gansakuTrebuli adgili

da, amavdroulad, rwmenisa

da aRmsareblobis sruli Tavisufleba.


SeTanxmeba srulad unda Seesabamebodes

saerTaSoriso samarTlis

sayovelTaod aRiarebul

principebsa da normebs, kerZod,

adamianis uflebaTa da ZiriTad

TavisuflebaTa sferoSi. saqar-

Tvelos konstituciur SeTanxmebas,

Tu igi ar ewinaaRmdegeba

ài, ityvi da isev Sen gamodixar cudi da

eklesiis mteri, magram rom ar vTqva, ar

SemiZlia. rodis aqeT gaxda manavis cixe

samonastro kompleqsi anda saeklesio centri,

rom dRes manavis cixe sapatriarqos

sakuTrebaa? ra xdeba, sadac erTi naeklesiari

da samlocvelo idga, yvelgan monasteri unda

gavxsnaT?! ar arsebobs saqarTveloSi cixe,

romelsac Tavisi samlocvelo ar hqonoda. ra

gamodis, rom mTeli saqarTvelo erTi didi

monasteri iyo?! amas rom Tavi davaneboT,

romelma idiotma moifiqra, rom cixe Suaze

gaeyo da naxevari daeregistrirebina

sapatriarqosTvis, xolo meore naxevari -

ara?! ra, sxvadasxva cixea zeda da qveda

cixeebi?! ukve marazmSi gadavdivarT.

saxelmwifod ki ara, mgoni erT did Sua

saukuneebis saeklesio safeodalod viqeciT!~

saqarTvelos konstitucias da

konstituciur kanons, aqvs upiratesi

iuridiuli Zala yvela

sxva normatiuli aqtis mimarT.

da mainc am konkordatis me-

11 muxlSi gviweria, rom:

1. saxelmwifo adasturebs XIX-

XX saukuneebSi (gansakuTrebiT

1921-90-ian wlebSi), saxelmwifoebrivi

damoukideblobis dakargvis

periodSi, eklesiisaTvis materialuri

da moraluri zianis

miyenebis faqts. rogorc Camor-

Tmeuli qonebis nawilis faqtobrivi

mflobeli, iRebs valdebulebas

materialuri zianis nawilobriv

kompensaciaze (saqarTvelos

ssr ministrTa sabWos dadgenileba

183; 12.04.90);

2. aRniSnuli sakiTxis Seswavlis,

kompensaciis formebis, raodenobis,

vadebis, qonebis an miwis

gadacemisa da sxva detalebis

dasadgenad paritetul sawyisebze

iqmneba komisia (am SeTanxmebis

xelmoweridan 1 Tvis vadaSi),

romelic moamzadebs Sesabamisi

normatiuli aqtebis proeqtebs.

da konkordatis arsebobam da

misma konstituciasTan ga-

Tanabrebam dRes iqamde migviyvana,

rom saydari, karis eklesia

Tu niSi samlocvelo yvela erTbaSad

SeiZleba uceb sapatriarqosi

aRmoCndes da Tu romelme

saydris gverdiT Cveni saxlia,

uceb SeiZleba isic sapatriqros

sakuTrebaSi gadavides.

Tqveni ar vici, magram, mgoni,

bevrs aviwydeba, rom dedamiwa

RmerTis saxlia.

32 N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

xviCa mamulaZe

598 41 12 26

„ambasador baTumi” 2017 wlis

seqtemberSi ruseTis moqalaqe aleqsandre fridma daafuZna.

is iyo kompaniis 100%-iani wilis mflobeli da direqtori.

manamde mas, 2015 wels, saqarTveloSi kompania „bbu jor-

jia”, 2016 wels ki Sps „Cemi dronebi” daufuZnebia. is aseve

aris kompania „jorjian veis” damfuZnebeli da 50%-iani wilis

mflobeli. aleqsandre fridi flobs aseve Sps „sigma qepi-

tal partnerss”.

2017 wlis seqtemberSive kompaniis wilebSi cvlileba ramdenjerme

Sevida. am droisTvis kompaniis damfuZnebeli wileb-

Si saerTod aRar fiqsirdeba da kompanias iyofen ruseTis

moqalaqeebi: elguja qeburia da varTan varTanovi, kompaniis

direqtorad ki elguja qeburiaa registrirebuli.

baTumSi „ambasadoris” mSen-

eblobis sawinaaRmdegod aqcia

ramdenjerme gaimarTa.

„qronika+~ am Temis Sesaxeb

moqalaqeebs gaesaubra da hki-

Txa, Tu ratom ar unda aSendes

baTumis bulvarSi „ambasa-

doris” 19-sarTuliani Senoba?

geno TebiZe _ „lelo saqar-

TvelosTvis” baTumis orga-

nizaciis erT-erTi lideri:

„iciT, rom baTumis bulvari

da ara marto baTumisTvis, mTlianad

Cveni qveynisTvis erT-

biznesmeni biznesmenia da mTavaria,

rom mas hqondes sufTa

warsuli da moqalaqeobrivi valdebulebebi,

is unda akmayofilebdes

nebismieri qveynis

kanonmdeblobas da pativs unda

scemdes mas.

Cveni qveynisTvis sasicocxlod

mniSvnelovania investorebis

Semosvla. adamianebis, romlebsac

SeuZliaT marTali, samarTliani

da, amasTan erTad,

Tanabari da eWvebis gareSe

mqone biznesis warmoeba Cvens

qveyanaSi.


anobaSi. Cven varT baTumelebis

Zalian didi nawili: arasamTavrobo

organizaciebi, aqtivistebi,

adamianebi, romlebic

marTlac TavganwirviT vibrZviT

im samarTlianobis aRsadgenad,

rac Cveni qalaqisTvis

marTlac umniSvnelovanesia.

dRes „ambasadori” gaimarjvebs

am xalxze, xval kidev

romeliRac gundi da, faqtobrivad,

is erT-erTi yvelaze

mniSvnelovani adgili, rasac

baTumis bulvari hqvia, saboolo

jamSi, Cvens STamomavlebs

aRar gadaecema im saxiT, romliTac

dRemde moaRwia.

Cven Tu gviyvars es qalaqi

da pativs vcemT mis mosaxleobas,

valdebulebi varT, rom

mis mkvidrTa azric gaviTvaliswinoT

da pativi vceT protests,

romelic ramdenime xnis

ganmavlobaSi uwyvetad mimdinareobs

am kompaniis winaaRmdeg.

gasagebia, rom maT raRac

finansuri interesi amoZravebT

da es biznesia, magram yvelaferi

unda Cajdes CarCos

moxdeboda, radganac kargad

gaxsovT, rodesac aWaris mTavrobis

Tavmjdomare Tornike

riJvaZe dainiSna Tanamdebobaze,

misi erT-erTi pirveli gancxadeba

zustad is iyo, rom „ambasadorma”

unda aaSenos imdeni,

rasac kanonmdebloba iTvaliswinebs

da risi nebarTvac aqvs

miRebulio, Tumca dRes ukve

Seicvala pozicia.

es raze migvaniSnebs? _ imaze,

rom „ambasadoris” Temas da

TviTon „ambasadors” seriozuli

mxardamWerebi hyavs da ara

marto aq.

pirveli piri rom Tavis

gadawyvetilebas da azrs Seicvlis,

e. i. ufro „did viRacazea”

saubari, ufro didi Tevzebi,

zvigenebi figurireben saqmeSi,

romlebic aseTi Tanamdebobis

pirebs, faqtobrivad, avtonomiuri

respublikis xelmZRvanelsac

ki, azrs acvlevineben.

calke Temaa Tanamdebobis

piris uprincipoba, romelic

samomavlod mas da qalaqs daetyoba.

ar iqneba baTumeli, romelic

mis am upasuxismgeblobas

keTilsindisieri da sufTa warsulis

mqonea biznessaqmianoba-

Si. mas sruli ufleba aqvs,

awarmoos am qveyanaSi Tavisi

saqme, magram adamianebi, romlebic

arian ucxo qveynis moqalaqeebi

da ar viciT im fulis

warmomavloba, romelsac

gankargaven Cvens qveyanaSi, mec

da Zalian bevr adamians, ba-

Tumelebs, gviCndeba gonivruli

eWvi, rom isini rusul Sav

fuls abandeben saqarTveloSi,

romelic negatiurad aisaxeba

Cveni qveynis momavalze, bevr

problemas moitans. amitom xelisuflebis

valdebuleba iyo,

rom Seeswavla am adamianebisa

da „ambasadoris” warmomavloba.

faqtia, dRes vertikali yvela

jerze, rodesac sazogadoeba

vexvewebiT, vumtkicebT sasamarTlo

gadawyvetilebebiT, adamianTa

aqtiurobiT, specialistebis

daskvnebiT da im yvela

detaluri gadawyvetilebiT,

romelic maT Cveulebrivad

unda miiRon, rogorc argumenti,

faqtobrivad, ukuagdeben

Cvens mcdelobebs da danapireb-

ra bedi elis

àmbasador

baTumis~

mSeneblobas?

erTi gamorCeuli teritoria

gaxlavT da is istoriuli memkvidreobis

zonaa. iq yvelanairi

msgavsi mSenebloba dauSvebelia.

baTumelebisTvis yvelaze

metad is aris gamaRizianebeli,

rom dRes adamianebma, romlebmac

gaurkveveli warmomavlobis,

Tundac legaluri finansuri

SesaZleblobebi daagroves

da maincdamainc cdiloben,

rom sakuTari biznesi am

qalaqis xarjze akeTon! _ qalqis,

romelic erTi saukunea,

Tavs iwonebs am erT-erTi umniSvnelovanesi

bulvariT evropaSi,

es adgili gzajvaredinia

stumrebisTvis.

rac Seexeba im konkretul

gunds, romelic mSeneblobas

awarmoebs, aris „ambasadori”.

misi mflobelebi arian ruseTis

moqalaqeebi.

Cven varT demokratiuli saxelmwifo

da vfiqrob, rom absoluturad

yvelas unda mieces

saqmianobis Tavisufali da

Tanabari saSualeba.

ar aqvs mniSvneloba, romeli

saxelmwifos warmomadgenelia,

rac Seexeba „ambasadoris”

Temas, es jgufi uceb Semovida

bazarze da, ratomRac, qaosurad

daiwyo momgebiani far-

Tebis Sesyidvebi: es aris teritoria

goderZize, sadac yvelaze

mniSvnelovani da centraluri

adgilebi „ambasadorma”

Seisyida da mere daetaka

qalaq baTumis bulvars. etyoba,

manamde iyo dainteresebuli

am teritoriiT. yvelaze mniSnelovani

CemTvis, rogorc rigiTi

baTumelisTvis, is aris,

rom rodesac Semodixar da

atyueb mosaxleobas, es wesis

darRvevaa.

pirveli tyuili daiwyo ba-

Tumis bulvarSi 4-sarTuliani

Senobis Cadgmis nebarTvis aRebiT,

Tumca maT TavSive iseTi

Rrma fundamenti Cayares, romelic

ufro maRali korpusis

dadgmas iTvaliswinebda.

e. i. gaTviTcnobierebuli

hqondaT, rasac akeTebdnen da

eSmakoba Cades, rom samomavlod

ukve SeZlebdnen maTi miznebis

ganxorcielebas raRac arakanonieri

gzebiT _ SegviZlia pirdapir

eWvi SevitanoT maT saqmi-

farglebSi.

albaT da samomavlod, rodesac

„qarTuli ocneba” wava xelisuflebidan,

darwmunebuli

var, Zalovani struqturebi

dainteresdebian im Sida garigebebiT,

romelic Seexeba „ambasadoris”

baTumSi Semosvlas;

romeli Cinovnikebi uwyobdnen

xels „abasadors”, pirdapiri

gagebiT, teritoriis mitaceba-

Si? es qveda eSelonebSi ar

ar Seaxsenebs riJvaZes mTeli

cxovrebis manZilze. amaze uxerxuloba

unda igrZnon im adamianebmac,

romlebmac nebarTva

gasces da CarTuli iyvnen

„ambasadoris” mSeneblobis korufciul

sqemaSi.

vimeoreb, CemTvis sxva qveynis

moqalaqeoba, am SemTxveva-

Si, ruseTis, ar niSnavs imas,

rom adamians upirobod unda

SeezRudos aq saqmianoba, Tu is

`ratom unda aSendes maincdamainc centraluri

bulvaris yvelaze lamaz adgilas, kulturuli

memkvidreobis Zeglis teritoriaze, 19-

sarTuliani korpusi, roca aseulobiT heqtari

teritoriaa auTvisebeli zRvis piras gonios

poligonis mimdebared?! me ar var mSeneblobisa

da investiciebis winaaRmdegi - me vewinaaRmdegebi

axlis Senebas Zvelis ganadgurebis xarjze. es

proeqti Tavidanve didi afera iyo.

mogexsenebaT, àmbasadors~ mSeneblobis nebarTva

ar miuRia. man miiRo samsarTuliani

balneologiuri poliklinikis reabilitaciis

nebarTva. axla minda, nebismier adamians vkiTxo,

- ranairi restavracia da reabilitaciaa, roca

samsarTulians angrev da cxramets aSeneb?!~

sac cvlian. ra SeiZleba am SemTxvevaSi

vigulisxmoT? _ e. i.

Cven winaSe dgas raRac konkretuli

jgufi, romelsac seriozuli

gavlena aqvs Cvens xelisuflebaze”.

genri doliZe _ poeti:

„ratom unda aSendes maincdamainc

centraluri bulvaris

yvelaze lamaz adgilas, kulturuli

memkvidreobis Zeglis

teritoriaze, 19-sarTuliani

korpusi, roca aseulobiT heqtari

teritoriaa auTvisebeli

zRvis piras gonios poligonis

mimdebared?! me ar var mSeneblobisa

da investiciebis winaa-

Rmdegi _ me vewinaaRmdegebi

axlis Senebas Zvelis ganadgurebis

xarjze. es proeqti Tavidanve

didi afera iyo. mogexsenebaT,

„ambasadors” mSeneblobis

nebarTva ar miuRia. man mii-

Ro samsarTuliani balneologiuri

poliklinikis reabilitaciis

nebarTva. axla minda, nebismier

adamians vkiTxo, _ ranairi

restavracia da reabilitaciaa,

roca samsarTulians angrev

da cxramets aSeneb?!”

N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

33


`beras muqaris aravis eSinia!~

bera ivaniSvilma dumili daar-

nene injgia

Rvia. man tv „imedTan” interviuSi

591 71 39 98

skandaluri Canaweris Sesaxeb isaubra,

tv „pirvelis” mier gavrcelebuli

Canawerebis avTentikuroba, faqtobrivad, ar uaryo da gan-

marta, rom Tu vinme dedas Seaginebs, dResac pasuxs mosTxovs.

tv „pirvelma” 6 marts Canaw-

erebi gaavrcela, sadac irakli

RaribaSvili, bera ivaniSvili da

anzor CubiniZe, savaraudod, im

adamianebis dasjas gegmavdnen da

ganixilavdnen, romlebmac bera

ivaniSvils Seagines. CanawerSi

„qarTuli ocnebis” damfuZneblis

Svili kmayofilebas gamoxatavs

imis gamo, rom misi ginebisTvis

bavSvebi isjebian. jerjerobiT,

ucnobia, daiwyebs Tu ara proku-

ratura gamoZiebas savaraudo

danaSaulze.

am Temam sazogadoebis didi

nawilis aRSfoTeba gamoiwvia, Tumca

mimdinare politikuri Teme-

bis fonze, TiTqos, skandaluri

Canawerebis saqme gadaifara.

ra reaqcia hqondaT axal-

gazrdebs skandalur Canawerebze?

ramdenad realuria politikuri

krizisis daZleva? da ra formiT

unda CaerTon am procesebSi ax-

algazrda aqtivistebi?


„qronika+” rubrika „axalgazrda

politikosebSi” samoqalaqo aqti-

vist giorgi qitiaSvils esaubra:

_ ra reaqcia gqondaT, roca tv

„pirvelis” mier gavrcelebuli

Canawerebi moismineT, sadac „qar-

Tuli ocnebis” damfuZneblis

Svili kmayofilebas gamoxatavs

imis gamo, rom misi ginebisTvis

bavSvebi isjebian?

_ pirvel rigSi, aRSfoTebis

reaqcia mqonda, Semdeg sircxvilis

imis gamo, rom Cvens droSi msgavsi

raRac xdeba. araformaluri mmar-

Tvelis Svili qveynis moqmed premier-ministrs

urekavs da arasrulwlovani

bavSvebis dasjas sTxovs

„feisbuqze” gakeTebuli komentaris

gamo. es, ra Tqma unda, evropuli

da demokratiuli qveynisTvis

damaxasiaTebeli stili ar aris. es

aris centraluri aziis qveynebisTvis

damaxasiaTebeli movlena, sadac

klanuri mmarTveloba aris

wina planze wamoweuli da gavleniani

ojaxebis warmomadgenlebi

akontroleben yvelafers, msxverplebs

axdevineben bodiSebs komentarebis

gakeTebis gamo, albaT,

sjian. vuyure beras CarTvas „imedze”,

sadac am Canawerebis avTentikuroba,

faqtobrivad, daadastura.

man Tqva, rom RaribaSvils

„tri-tris” ki ara, „antonis” veZaxdio,

e. i. es saubari Sedga. aseve

beram Tqva isic, rom Tu msgavsi

rame moxdeba momavalSi, aucileblad

igives gaakeTebs. pirvel rig-

Si, ivaniSvilis ojaxi am qveynidan

mosaSorebelia, radgan eseni saqarTvelos

ukan weven, amsgavseben

CeCneTis respublikas da ruseTs.

swored, im qveynebSi xdeba msgavsi

SemTxvevebi, video blogebia internetSi,

Tu rogor axdeveniben

bodiSebs im adamianebs, romlebic

kadirovis an putinis ojaxis wevrebze

kritikul komentars an

posts daweren.

_ „Seagine beras” sapasuxod am

gzavniliT aqcia gaimarTa. ramde-

nad swori iyo es saprotesto

mesiji?

_ sazogadoebam unda daanaxos

beras, rom misi muqaris aravis eSinia.

sabolood ki iqamde unda

mivideT, rom es ojaxi da maTi partia

CamoSordes xelisuflebas.

beras ginebasa da masze fizikur

Zaladobas aravin apirebs, mas ar

unda davemsgavsoT. amitom mTavaria,

es adamianebi nabij-nabij, mSvidobianad

gavwioT xelisuflebis

sadaveebidan. rac Seexeba beras intervius

narativs, ZvelbiWuri, vi-

Tom tradiciul-qarTuli axsna,

rom ginebas aravis SearCens da

fizikurad gauswordeba bavSvebs,

aqedan Cans, rom verc fuliT, verc

dasavleTSi ganaTlebis miRebiT

adamiani progresuli ver gaxdeba.

_ am Canawerebis gavrcelebis

Semdeg qveyanaSi bevri mniSvnelo-

vani Tema agorda, ramac TiTqos

gadafara Canawerebis skandali.

maT Soris, yvelaze aqtualuri

iyo xelisuflebasa da opozicias

Soris gamarTuli Sexvedrebi. sam-

wuxarod, 18 marts „qarTul ocnebasa”

da opozicias Soris saer-

TaSoriso partniorebis mediatorobiT

gamarTuli molaparakebebi

SeTanxmebis gareSe dasrulda.

rogor fiqrobT, ra perspeq-

tiva aqvs molaparakebebs?

_ Cvens qveyanaSi miewyo da yoveldRe

iseTi axali ambebia, rom

Zvels faravs. vfiqrob, molaparakebebis

magidasTan dajdoma aucilebelia

da miuxedavad imisa, rom

SeTanxmeba ver Sedga evropuli

sabWos mediaciiT, igi mainc unda

gagrZeldes. iqneb, daaxloebis

wertilebi mainc ipovos opoziciam

da xelisuflebam, radgan krizisi,

pirvel rigSi, qveyanas, Semdeg ki

sazRvargareT qveynis reputacias

daazianebs. dRes ra procesic mimdinareobs,

es sazianoa yvelasTvis.

samwuxaroa, rom poziciebi ver

daaxlovda da konsensusi ver

Sedga. Zalian didi imedi maqvs, rom

es gagrZeldeba mas Semdeg, rac

danielsoni Caitans angariSs Sarl

miSelTan, amis Semdeg ki ufro

metad CaerTveba evropa, romelic

erT-erTi mTavari garantia imisa,

rom saqarTvelo isev demokratiuli

qveyanaa. opoziciam erTianoba

unda SeinarCunos da ise esaubros

„qarTul ocnebas”. Cveni

mediatorebis SuamavlobiT es Sexvedrebi

unda gagrZeldes.

_ xom ar fiqrobT, rom opozi-

ciam taqtikuri Secdoma dauSva,

roca parlamentSi Sesvlaze

boikoti gamoacxada?

_ ar vfiqrob, rom parlamentSi

SesvliT opozicia ukeTess nabijs

gadadgamda. aseve ar viziareb im

pozicias, rac „girCma” Tqva, rom

erTi erTze unda elaparakos „ocnebas”.

„girCi” da elisaSvilis „moqalaqeebi”

CemTvis „ocnebis”

ruporebi arian, samwuxarod, maT

TamaSs TamaSoben. opozicia parlamentSi

ar unda Sevides da protesti

unda gaagrZelos. 20 marts maT

gancxadeba gaaakeTes, rom protesti

yvela qalaqSi gagrZeldeba da

ecdebian, xalxi gareT gamoiyvanon.

es swori poziciaa. es Cveni qveyanaa,

Cven am qveynis moqalaqeebi

varT da Cven nacvlad arc evropa

da arc amerika arafers gaakeTebs.

isev Cveni misaRwevia vadamdeli

arCevnebi. darwmunebuli var, mo-

giorgi qitiaSvili:

ìvaniSvilis

ojaxi am qveynidan

mosaSorebelia~

laparakebis magidasTan opozicia

bevr kompromisze wavidoda, magram

aseve darwmunebuli var, rom „ocneba”

arafers daTmobda, radgan es

aris Zala, romelsac raRacis daTmoba

sisusted miaCnia. politpatimrebis

gamoSveba da 2022 wlis

Semodgomaze arCevnebis daniSvna,

vfiqrob, yvelasTvis kargi gamosavali

iqneboda. am SemTxvevaSi

SeiZleboda, opozicia parlamentSi

Sesuliyo.

_ giorgi, aRniSnavT, rom das-

avleli partniorebis CarTulo-

ba mniSvnelovania. briuselSi evr-

okavSiris sagareo politikisa da

usafrTxoebis umaRlesi komisr-

is, Jozef borelis pirdapiri gza-

vnili, rom saqarTveloSi Tavi

vi-

sufali arCevnebi Catarda, xom ar

metyvelebs imaze, rom opoziciam

ver daarwmuna dasavleli part-

niorebi arCevnebis gayalbebaSi?

_ 2020 wlis saparlamento ar-

CevnebSi aqtiurad viyavi CarTuli,

mTawminda-krwanisis olqi fexdafex

Semoviare. arCevnebis gayalbeba

mxolod imas ar niSnavs, rom rogorc

2003 wels iyo, asobiT biuleteni

Cayares aWaraSi. adamianis

Tavisufal nebaze moqmedeba, daSineba

da mosyidva, _ es aris arCevnebis

gayalbeba. aseve arsebobs

„IRI-is” („saerTaSoriso respublikuri

institutis”) daskvna, sadac

weria, rom arCevnebze dafiqsirda

Zalian bevri darRveva. realurad,

am darRvevebma Sedegebze gavlena

moaxdina. arCevnebis dRes vnaxeT,

rom gldanSi iaraRiani adamianebi

darbodnen, _ evropaSi ase rom Catardes,

romelime evroparlamentari

ityvis, rom arCevnebi samarTlian

da konkurentul garemo-

Si Catarda?! opozicias bevri problema

aqvs, magram ar mgonia, maTi

mTavari problema is iyos, rom

dasavlel partnioramde saTqmeli

ver miitanes. radgan es saTqmeli

miitanes, zustad amitom Camovidnen

da amitomac imarTeboda molaparakebebi

maTi mediaciiTa am krizisis

gansamuxtad, rasac sabolood

riggareSe arCevnebis Catarebamde

unda miveyvaneT. qarTveli

amomrCevlis 52%-ma opozicias

dauWira mxari, ase rom, quCis masobrivi

aqciebi SegviZlia berketis

saxiT gamoviyenoT da ase SevZlebT

riggareSe arCevnebamde miviyvanoT

qveyana. isic unda aRvniSnoT, revolucia

aravis surs da yvelam

icis, rom SesaZloa, revolucia mSvidobianad

ver dasruldes, rac

saziano iqneba TiToeuli CvenganisTvis

da Cveni qveynisTvis.

_ dRevandeli mocemulobiT,

dakarga Tu ara opoziciam mosaxleobis

ndoba? roca 5 Tvis Sem-

deg isev arCevnebis gayalbebis

gasaprotesteblad eZaxis opozi-

cia amomrCevels da am drois

`sazogadoebam unda daanaxos beras, rom misi

muqaris aravis eSinia. sabolood ki iqamde

unda mivideT, rom es ojaxi da maTi partia

CamoSordes xelisuflebas. beras ginebasa da

masze fizikur Zaladobas aravin apirebs, mas

ar unda davemsgavsoT. amitom mTavaria, es

adamianebi nabij-nabij, mSvidobianad gavwioT

xelisuflebis sadaveebidan~

ganmavlobaSi konkretul Sedegs

ver miaRwia, es garkveul undob-

lobas iwvevs.

_ ra Tqma unda, opozicias bevri

problema aqvs da imediT ar

Sehyurebs mosaxleobis nawili.

rac Tqven aRniSneT, es problema

Cvens politikur klass realurad

aqvs, amis uaryofa ar SeiZleba.

magram vfiqrob, rom adamianebi qu-

CaSi sakuTari momavlisTvis unda

gamovidnen. daviviwyoT is, Tu

romeli opozicionerebi dganan

quCaSi, Cven Cveni momavlis gadasarCenad

unda gamovideT. Tu adamians

surs riggareSe arCevnebi da

qveynis ukeTesobisken Secvla, qu-

CaSi unda gamovides. samwuxarod,

saarCevno yuTis nacvlad quCis

protestiT unda mivaRwioT amas.

samarTlian garemoSi Catarebuli

riggareSe arCevnebiT miviRebT

koaliciur mTavrobas, romelic

sabolood ukeTesi iqneba yvelasTvis,

Cveni qveynisTvis da, maT

Soris, imisTvis, rom erTpirovnulad

aravin Caigdos momavalSi Zalaufleba

da igive sisastikiT ar

gauswordes politikur oponentebs,

rogorc arsebuli xelisufleba

uswordeba dRes.

_ bevrjer axseneT is, rom Cvens

gasakeTebels dasavleTi ver gaa-

keTebs. ra formiT da rogor

unda CaerTon axalgazrdebi am

politikuri krizisis gansamux-

tad? ra pasuxismgebloba gvaqvs

samoqalaqo kuTxiT?

_ rodesac aqciebi daanonsdeba,

saqarTvelos nebismieri moqalaqe,

visac es politikuri krizisi awuxebs,

unda gamovides gareT da daanaxos

xelisuflebas, rom is warmoadgens

am qveyanas da mas exeba

arsebuli yvelanairi problema.

aseve vfiqrob, rom axalgazrdebi

ufro metad unda CaerTon politikur

procesebSi, Tu saSualeba

iqneba, Sida partiul konkurencia-

Sic CaerTon da wina planze wamoiwon.

realurad, Cvens politikur

klass gajansaReba da siaxleebi

sWirdeba, es xelovnurad ver

moxdeba, es gajansaReba ar niSnavs

imas, rom nebismieri axalgazrda

ubralod asakis gamo partiebma

wina planze wamowion, _ es bevrad

uaress Sedegs moitans. am tipis gajansaReba

bunebrivad unda moxdes

da konkurenciaSi unda daamarcxon

Zveli Taobis opozicionerebi

da ase gadmovidnen wina planze.

iqneb, am procesma is nihilisturi

damokidebuleba Secvalos, rac

sazogadoebaSi arsebobs da xalxi

bevrad ufro Semoabrunos opoziciisken.

opoziciuri axali saxeebic

ufro misaRebi gaxdes Cveni

moqalaqeebisTvis. erTaderTi gza

dRes aris quCis protesti. sabolood,

Cvens gasakeTebels, verc

amerikelebi da verc evropelebi

ver gaakeTeben, am qveyanaSi Cven

unda vicxovroT da aq Cveni Svilebi

unda gaizardon, aucileblad

unda mivaRwioT riggareSe arCevnebs

mSvidobiani gziT. Zalian didi

imedi maqvs, rom molaparakebebi

gagrZeldeba ukve amerikis CarTulobiT

da sabolood, xelisufleba

da opozicia riggareSe arCevnebamde

SeTanxmdebian. vfiqrob, molaparakebis

procesSi, sanam piradad

ivaniSvils da mis ojaxs ar

daemuqreba sanqciebi, manam „qarTuli

ocneba” arafers daTmobs. Tu

ivaniSvils dasavleTSi sanqciebs

dauweseben, mmarTveli gundi ufro

Tvinieri iqneba molaparakebis

magidasTan.

34

34 N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

magda vaSaymaZe:

„sakmaod xSirad davdivar

restornebSi, roca samuSao grafiki

maZlevs amis saSualebas,

radgan cxovrebis ritmi nelnela

aRdga. Tumca xalxi ufro

naklebia, fasebi odnav gaizarda,

magram regulaciebis Tval-

xviCa mamulaZe

598 41 12 26

saqarTvelosTvis (da aramar-

to) „kovid 19" mTavar gamowvevad iqca. pandemiam Zalian bevr

sferos Seuqmna problema, maT Soris, sarestorno qsels.

restornebis mepatroneebs obieqtebis daketva mouwiaT.

saqarTvelos mTavrobis dadgenilebiT, aWaris regionSi

pirveli martidan restornebs muSaobis saSualeba miecaT.

„qronika+~

dainteresda,

SezRudvebis Semdeg ra xdeboda

aWaris regionSi sarestorno

sferoSi da ramdenime re-

stornis menejers gaesaubra.

lela SaTiriSvili _ resto-

ran „biqeis” menejeri:

„samsaxurSi, jerjerobiT,

muSaoba aRadgina daaxloebiT

10-idan 15-mde TanamSromelma,

15-ic ar iqneba.

rac Seexeba samzareulos,

raRac produqtebi gaZvirda.

problema yvela segments Seexo,

aseve samzareulos teqpersonals,

mimtanebs, menejers, _

yvelgan mogviwia TanamSromlebis

Semcireba, radgan regulaciebis

mixedviT ar SeiZleba,

bevri viyoT da ekonomikuri

krizisidan gamomdinare, ubralod,

ver SevZlebT amdeni xelfasis

gadaxdas.

vcdilobT, yvela davasaqmoT.

ar gvinda, vinme davCagroT,

amitom etapobrivad vanacvlebT

TanamSromlebs.

sul 50-mde personali gvyavda,

magram, rogorc zemoT giTxariT,

raodenoba 15-mde SevamcireT.

es gardauvali iyo. zogierTi

saerTod wavida baTumidan,

zogi ojaxuri pirobebidan

gamomdinare veRar muSaobs.

vcdilobT, saxe SevinarCunoT”.

iago baramiZe _ „aWara pala-

sis” menejeri:

„momsaxure personali namdvilad

SevamcireT, radgan TanamSromlebis

adgili aRar dar-

Ca. axla gavixseniT, magram, samwuxarod,

TanamSromelTa sruli

raodenoba ar vWirdeba, obieqtis

muSaoba cota SezRudulia,

samuSao droc Semcirda,

stumrebic cota modis. mogexsenebaT,

gaZvirda produqtic,

Tumca Cven mainc ar gagviZvirebia

fasebi, magram gadasaxedi

iqneba, radgan mowodebis fasebi

gaZvirebulia.

sul 10-mde TanamSromeli


ra xdeba

baTumis

kvebis

obieqtebSi?

muSaobs praqtikantebis CaTvliT”.

„qronika+”-ma baTumelebi gamohkiTxa,

Tu ramdenad gaizarda

restornebSi fasebi da icaven

Tu ara iq jandacvis mier

gacemul rekomendaciebs?

mariam ServaSiZe:

„restoranSi yvela rekomendacia

daculia: sicxec gagvizomes,

sadezinfeqcio xsnaric

mogvawodes. pandemiis gamo xalxis

raodenobam moiklo re-

stornebSi, adamianebi eridebian

xalxmraval Sexvedrebs. rac

Seexeba fasebs, me romel restornebSic

davdiodi, ivive dar-

Ca”.

sazrisiT cdiloben, rom yvelaferi

daculi iyos. xalxi

cdilobs, erTmaneTisgan distancirdes”.

nino JoJaZe:

„davdivar xolme restoran-

Si grafikidan gamomdinare,

zogjer ver vaxerxeb wasvlas.

diskomforts miqnis is, rom

restornebi adre ixureba. yvela

rekomendacia gaTvaliswinebulia

da, zogadad, baTumi kargad

umklavdeba regulaciebs”.

15 maisi da gadarCenis Sansi

saqarTveloSi ama Tu im movlenis „istoriu-

lad” Sefaseba Zalian uyvarT da am terminiT

zogjer marTlac istoriul, zogjer ki rutinu-

Tengiz abloTia

l movlenebs amkoben.

N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

2021 wlis 15 maisi istoriuli namdvilad

ar iqneba, magram Zalian mniSvnelovani

da saSualovadian perspeqtivaSi

gadamwyveti _ udavod. swored 15

maiss, rodesac gaerTianebuli opozicia

masStaburi saprotesto aqciis Catarebas

gegmavs, gadawydeba _ aqvs Tu

ara qarTvel xalxs „qocobis” moSorebis

Tu ara, yovel SemTxvevaSi, cotaTi

ganze gawevis unari?

es Zalian rTuli sakiTxia da prognozireba

SeuZlebelia. aqamde, araerTi

mcdelobis miuxedavad, opozicia quCa-

Si momxreTa kritikuli raodenobis

gamoyvanas wlebis manZilze ver axerxebs.

15-20 aTasi adamiani erTjeradad _

opoziciisTvis maqsimaluri maCvenebeli

iyo.

SesaZloa, es sakmarisia protestis

gamosaxatavad da sazogadoebaSi ukmayofilebis

muxtis saCveneblad, Tumca

Zalian cotaa xelisuflebis Sesacvlelad.

am amocanas erTianobaSi asobiT

aTasi adamiani sWirdeba, romelic dRes

ar aris.

Tu gsurT xelisuflebis quCidan

Secvla _ erTdroulad mTeli qveyana

unda aajanyoT da, pirvel rigSi, regionebSi.

dRes aravis axsovs, rom 2003

wlis noemberSi SevardnaZeze gacilebiT

adre regionuli liderebis

Tavebis cvena daiwyo _ erT-erTi pirveli

iyo kaxeTis gubernatori medea mezvriSvili,

romelsac kabineti auWedes.

aseve moxda sxva raionul centrebSi

_ TbilisSi mravalaTasiani uwyveti

mitingebis paralelurad adgilebze xelisuflebis

faqtobrivi cvla mimdinareobda.

gamgeblebi da gubernatorebi

garbodnen, policielebi saxlebSi

imalebodnen.

23 noembrisTvis SevardnaZis xelisuflebisgan

mxolod parlamentis Senoba-

Si Sekrebili monaTa jgufi darCa...

Tumca dRes 2003 ki ara 2021 welia.

„qarTuli ocnebis” xelisufleba Zalian

sustia, magram im periodTan SedarebiT

gacilebiT ufro Zlieria. Sesabamisad,

quCidan mis Sesacvlelad bevrad,

bevrad meti Zalisxmeva da gacilebiT

mravaljer meti momxrea saWiro.

qoc-9 wlis manZilze opoziciam am

raodenobis momxre verc erTxel Seagrova.

es principuli mniSvnelobis sakiTxia

_ saqarTveloSi politikosebi xSirad

paTosurad laparakoben: „ar aqvs

mniSvneloba, ramdeni adamiani gamodis

quCaSi, erTi adamianis azric yuradsaRebia”.

amaze meti farisevloba Zneli warmosadgenia

_ realurad, saqarTveloSi

yvelafers mitingebze mosuli adamianebis

raodenoba wyvets. Tavebis Tvla

didi xnis da ukve damkvidrebuli tradiciaa.

gamova bevri adamiani _ mogismenen,

ar gamova _ imitinge da iyvire, ramdenic

ginda.

15 maisi gadamwyveti dRea. Tu 15

maiss araferi gansakuTrebuli ar moxda

_ 2024-ic mogebuli aqvT.

„qarTuli ocneba” aseTi diskreditebuli

jer arasdros yofila. dRes ukve

„qocebi” demokratobisa da wesierebis

niRabs aRar atareben _ azri ar aqvs.

dRes qveyanas Riad da daufaravad mar-

Tavs bandformireba, romelsac gaunaTlebeli

miliarderi-sociopaTi Zalian

cudad da arakompetenturad xelmZRvanelobs.

bera-ikas Sokismomgvreli saubari

aranaklebi kompromatia, vidre cixis

skandali, romelmac 2012 wels „nac-

moZraoba” nokdaunSi Caagdo. am fonze

Tu vinmem dRes ver Seigno, rom qveyana

banditebis xelSia _ is amas verasdros

gaigebs, ubralod imitom, rom gageba ar

surs.

koleqtiuri goga xaindrava-lali

moroSkina ver gaigebs. ufro sworad,

„ar” gaigebs, radgan ar awyobs.

amas verasdros gaigebs saxelmwifo

aparati, romelic qveynis msaxurisgan

qveynis gamyidvelad iqca. ver gaigeben

sajaro moxeleebi, romlebic TavianTi

maTxovruli xelfasebis gamo qveyanas

momavals uspoben.

ufro sworad, isinic, ara „ver”, aramed

„ar gaigeben”, imitom rom ar surT,

ar awyobT.

„qocobis” 40-45%-iani dasayrdeni

arsad gaqreba da xelisuflebas mxolod

im SemTxvevaSi ganudgeba, Tu 1-2

Tve xelfass ver miiRebs.

Tumca 2020 wlis saparlamento arCevnebSi

opoziciam, jamurad, 52% miiRo

da es is 52% gaxlavT, romelsac esmis,

rom qveyana banditebma Caigdes xelT,

erTad erTi, rasac es 52% jiutad

ver xvdeba isaa, rom oligarqiuli re-

Jimis dasamarcxeblad mxolod arCevnebze

misvla sakmarisi ar aris. dRes

viTareba opoziciurad ganwyobili adamianebis

ukidegano aRSfoTebasa da

quCaSi gamosvlas saWiroebs.

15 maiss saaimiso pirobebi iseTia,

rogoric arasdros yofila.

Tu 15 maiss quCaSi cota adamiani

gamova, es niSnavs, rom bevri arasdros

ar gamova.

es niSnavs, rom „qarTuli ocneba”

sabolood damSviddeba, da mixvdeba -

es qveyana biZinas jibeSi udevs, da jibidan

gamoxtomas ar Cqarobs. dasavle-

Tis mxridan aSkara wayruebis fonze es

niSnavs, rom qocebi araTu vadamdel

arCevnebs ar daniSnaven, aramed 2024-Sic

moigeben.

15 maiss wydeba - aqvs Tu ara am qveyanas

TviTgadarCenis instinqti da brZolisunarianoba,

Tu is sabolood gamoifita,

da Tavisi istoriis dasasrulisken

gzas Seuqcevadad daadga.

35


àmerikaSi Cemi profesiuli

daviT RvinianiZe sayovelT-

giorgi sakaruli

aod cnobili operis momRerali,

555 42 42 81

baritoni _ ganTqmulia sazogadoebrivi

moRvaweobiT, qvelmoqmedebiTa

da mecenatobiT. igi mTeli msofliodan krebs ni-

Wier bavSvebs da warmatebiT ukvalavs maT gzas musikaluri

xelovnebis samyaroSi.

daviTis gza saqarTvelodan

amerikamde da emigrantuli cxovreba

martivi ar yofila, Tumca

Tavisi niWierebiT, SromismoyvareobiT,

mizandasaxulobiTa da

mizanswrafulobiT imdens miaRwia,

dRes popularuli adamiania,

romelsac uwodeben „msoflio

operis varskvlavsa” da „rusuli

operis karuzos”, xolo filadelfiaSi

misi saxelobis kulturis

centric arsebobs.

daviTma bavSvoba quTaisSi gaatara

eqimi dedis, akademikosi

mamisa da umcrosi dis gverdiT.

mSoblebi mis profesiul arCevans

momRerlobas _ seriozulad ar

aRiqvamdnen, radgan Svilis saopero

unarebis unikalurobaSi

darwmunebuli ar iyvnen. amitom

urCies da asec gaurigdnen daviTs

ZiriTad profesiad meRvineoba

an eqimoba unda aerCia, simRera

ki gasarTobad eswavla. mar-

Tlac, daviTma politeqnikuri

universitetis meRvineobis fakultetze

Caabara da paralelurad

konservatoriaSi swavla daiwyo.

momRerlobaze bavSvobidan

ocnebobda. misi bebia, Turme,

Zalian musikaluri yofila, gitaraze

ukravda da Tavis xuT dedmamiSvilTan

erTad mReroda. mama

akordeonze ukravs. rogorc Cans,

ojaxis aseTma musikalurobamac

ganapiroba daviTis arCevani.

misi musikaluri kariera, Sei-

Zleba iTqvas, quTaisis jaz-rokansambl

„alionis” solistobiT

daiwyo. am periodSi ukve grZnobda,

musikis gareSe rom ver iarsebebda.

gadawyvita, saopero xelovnebas

daufleboda, radgan es

yvela Janris simReris Sesrulebis

saSualebas miscemda.

daviTs mravalmxrivi xma aRmoaCnda

18 weli tenori iyo, 33

wlisa ki baritoni gaxda.

vidre tenori iyo, lenskidan

_ xozemde yvelaferi imRera,

ernestos partiac ki, Tumca rogorc

TviTon ambobs, Tavs komfortulad

baritonad grZnobs.

marTalia, daviTi mravali welia,

amerikaSi cxovrobs da moRvaweobs,

Tumca saqarTvelo misi

sayvareli samSobloa. aqedan wasvla

simReris arCevanma ganapiroba.

man Tavidanve icoda, profesiad

operis momRerlobas Tu airCevda,

saqarTvelo misTvis mcire

areali iqneboda. amitom Caifiqra

samSoblodan wasvla da gaxda kidec

cnobili da gavleniani adamiani,

romelic uamravi qarTuli

kulturul-saganmanaTleblo

proeqtis avtori da organizatoria

aSS-sa Tu saqarTveloSi.

saqarTvelo 2000 wels datova

da sacxovreblad moskovSi gadavida.

amave wlis 13 maiss moskovis

axal saopero TeatrSi mousmines

da 200 momRerlidan erTaderTi

iyo, vinc meore da mesame

turis gareSe amoarCies da Teatris

dasSi Caricxes. 2002 wels

daaarsa saqvelmoqmedo fondi

„msoflio talantebi”, romelmac

uamravi mniSvnelovani programa

ganaxorciela. 2016 wels, sacxovreblad

amerikaSi gadasvlis

dros, iqac daaarsa es fondi, romlis

egidiTac saerTaSoriso

saopero festivali mraval qveyanaSi

Catarda. swored amave wlis

zafxulSi Seiqmna es fondi saqar-

TveloSi da igi uaxloes momavalSi

meqsikaSic dafuZndeba.

daviT RvinianiZis mier dagegmil

da ganxorcielebul proeqt-

Tagan marTlac aRsaniSnavia fondi

„msoflio talantebi” da musikaluri

proeqti „gza karnegi holisken”.

swored am ukanasknelma

gaukvala gza momReral aleqsandre

zazaraSvils (romlis musikaluri

prodiuseri daviT RvinianiZea)

ukrainuli sabavSvo „voisis“

gamarjvebisken da Semdeg amerikaSi

holivuduri Souebisken.

am proeqtis Sesaxeb unda iTqvas,

rom male igi satelevizio

proeqtad SeiZleba iqces, masSi

monawileoba ki msoflios masStabiT

yvela bavSvs SeeZleba 6-dan

18 wlamde.

am konkursis saSualebiT bavSvebi

eCvevian scenas, publikas,

gamodian amerikisa da sxva qveynebis

sxvadasxva qalaqis scenebze

da bavSvobidan ikvalaven gzas

warmatebisken.

aRsaniSnavia isic, rom proeqts

„gza karnegi holisken” gamarjvebulebs

mTlianad afinansebs daviT

RvinianiZis fondi da ukve fulad

jildosac gascems.

daviTi kidev erT mniSvnelovan

musikalur konkurss uZRveba,

romelic 18-45 wlamde monawileebisgan

Sedgeba. proeqti amerikulma

presam saukeTesod aRiara.

es gaxlavT akademiuri vokalis

konkursi, romelic amerikis

sxvadasxva qalaqSi tardeba da

finaliT niu-oirkis opera

„amerikaSi” sruldeba. gamarjvebulebi

fulad

da sxva specprizebs

iReben, amasTanave,

monawileoben fond

„msoflio talantebis”

saerTaSoriso

festivalSi, romelic

msoflios upirveles

scenaze karnegi holSi

imarTeba.

cnobilia, rom daviTs

Tavisi samSoblo da sayvareli

qalaqi arasodes aviwydeba.

amas mowmobs is, rom

man saqvelmoqmedo fond

„msoflio talantebis”

egidiT quTaisSi daaarsa

„quTaisis operis saerTa-

Soriso festivali”, sadac

msoflioSi aRiarebuli

saopero momR-

eqskluziuri

interviu cnobil

bariton daviT

RvinianiZesTan

erlebi iyrian Tavs. am mxriv safuZveli

Caeyara quTaisis, rogorc

saopero qalaqis, aRorZinebas.

daviT RvinianiZe Tavisi aqtiuri

da nayofieri SemoqmedebiTi

cxovrebidan gamomdinare, yovelTvis

sazogadoebis yuradRebis

centrSia.

man saqarTveloSic mniSvnelovani

kvali datova.

magaliTad, skola

da yvela sxva saswavlebeli

wiTel

diplomze daamTavra;

male is

xdeba erT-erTi

toqSous wamyvani qarTul televiziaSi.

yovelkvireulad saubrobs

sakuTar satelevizio Souprograma

„tenorSi”, romelic iseT

farTo Temebs exeboda, rogoricaa

klasikuri musika, operis

varskvlavebi, kompozitorebi,

speqtaklebi da a. S. Sous imdenad

didi gamoxmaureba hqonda,

rom ramdenime epizodis Semdeg

igi erovnul televiziasa da saerTaSoriso

sakabelo arxebze

moxvda.

garda amisa, daviT RvinianiZe

zaqaria faliaSvilis saxelobis

muzeumSi kiTxulobda leqciebs;

aswavlida musikalur aTwledSi

da paralelurad muSaobda or

saopero TeatrSi baTumsa da

quTaisSi;

musikaluri akademiis

damTavrebis Semdeg igi

miiwvies niuportis

(didi britaneTi) operis

TeatrSi da evropis

sxva operis TeatrebSi.

man uaryo es

winadadebebi da 2000

wels Cavida moskovSi, sadac

gaxda moskovis „axali

operis” Teatris solisti;

2001-2002 wlebSi igi xdeba

raxmaninovis festival „TeTri

iasamnis” gamarjvebuli; 2002 wels

_ rusuli romansebis _ „romansiadas”

saerTaSoriso Semsruleblebis

pirveli premiis mflobeli;

2006 wlis ivnisSi man gaimarjva

vokalur saerTaSoriso

konkursSi „valsesia-musika” (mosamarTleTa

Tavmjdomare _

fiorenca kosoto. milani, italia);

2003 wels moskovis „helikonoperis”

musikaluri Teatris administraciuli

organos miwveviT

is solisti xdeba, am TeatrSi

2010 wlamde TamaSobs.

ruseTSi yofnis dros daviT

RvinianiZe mravali jildos

mflobeli xdeba da iseT festivalebze

imarjvebs, rogorebicaa:

puSkinis festivali „boldinis

Semodgoma” (niJni novgorodi);

„xarkovis musikaluri festivali”

(xarkovi, ukraina); „musikaluri

saRamoebi arbatze” (moskovi);

„rusuli musikaluri festivalebi

veliko novgorodsa da

fskovSi”; saopero festivali

„maria bieSu giwvevT” (kiSiniovi,

moldova) da a. S.

man, rogorc erT-erTma organizatorma

da „msoflio talantebis

fondis” prezidentma, 2013

wels aRadgina operis xelovnebis

festivali baTumSi; 2006 wels

daviT RvinianiZe sapatio stumris

statusiT miiwvies msoflio sazogadoebrivi

forumis sxdomaze

„civilizaciaTa dialogi”, romelic

yovelwliurad tardeba kun-

Zul rodosze. am forumis sesiebs

eswrebian mravali qveynis saxelmwifo

da sazogado moRvaweebi,

mecnierebisa da kulturis

warmomadgenlebi da religiuri

liderebi.

daviT RvinianiZe Tavisi xaverdovani,

damaTrobeli lirikuldramatuli

baritoniT, gaZlierebuli

farTo vokaluri diapazoniT

da romantikuli „maCos” lamazi,

mamakacuri garegnobiT, saopero

Teatris scenaze ganasaxierebs

rogorc gmiruli, aseve lirikuli

stilis mravalferovan personaJebs.

misi sakoncerto repertuari

asze meti ariisgan Sedgeba.

msoflio donis baritonis

cxovrebasa da SemoqmedebaSi bev-

ri siaxlea, romlis Sesaxebac

eqskluziurad „qronika+”-isTvis

micemuli interviudan SeityobT:

_ ra gavlena iqonia msofli-

oSi gavrcelebulma pandemiam

Tqvens gegmebsa da mimdinare

proeqtebze?

_ pandemia zustad im dros

daiwyo, roca saqarTvelodan,

quTaisidan Camovfrindi, sadac

cnobili musikaTmcodne eni arseniZisadmi

miZRvnili didi RonisZieba

gavmarTe. rogorc Cans,

aeroportidan aeroportebSi

gadafrenis procesSi Semeyara es

virusi, romelic rTulad gadavitane.

ase daiwyo es saSineli 2020

weli, romelmac daamuxruWa mTeli

msoflio da, maT Soris, Cemi

yvela gegmac, radgan, rac xelovnebas

Seexeba, yvelaferi gaaCera

da Caketa. aqedan gamomdinare,

dRemde ar viciT, iqneba Tu ara

saxelovnebo samyaro iseTi, rogoric

pandemiamde iyo. magali-

Tad, amerikis SeerTebul Stateb-

Si „metropoliteni”, „karnegi

holi” da sxva didi sakoncerto

sivrceebi 2021 wlis Semodgomamde

daketilia. ra iqneba Semdeg?

36

36 N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.


cxovreba gadavaxarisxe~

vfiqrob, yvelaferi gaixsneba da

Zvelebur ritms daubrundeba.

2021 wels aSS-Si daarsda Cemi

saxelobis vokaluri akademia da

aq ukve Zalian bevri moswavle

swavlobs. es akademia momRerlis

xmis formirebas emsaxureba. igi

gaxlavT akademia, romelic vokalur-saSemsruleblo

xelovnebis

ostatobas uwyobs xels. Zalian

bednieri var imiT, rom aq ara mxolod

bevri axalgazrda niWieri

Semsrulebeli movida saswavleblad,

aramed _ Cemze 10-20 wliT

ufrosi kolegebic.

_ rogorc vxedavT, pandemiam

Tqvens gegmebs bevri veraferi

daaklo. rogor grZeldeba Tqve-

ni saqmianoba an ra etapzea igi?

_ masStabur proeqts vgegmav

filadelfiaSi, mis unikalur

zonaSi, romelsac garSemo eqneba

didi sivrce, daaxloebiT 12-13

akri, sadac moewyoba ulamazesi

baRi da saparkinge adgili 200

manqanisTvis. erTi sityviT, es iqneba

unikaluri sivrce xelovnebisTvis

uzarmazar SenobaSi gaixsneba

„daviT RvinianiZis musikisa

da xelovnebis centri”, sadac

moewyoba 2000-kaciani sakoncerto

darbazi. es iqneba adgili, sadac

Zalian bevri musikosi Se-

Zlebs Tavisi xelovnebis demonstrirebas.

sxvaTa Soris, es centri

unda iqces bohemuri TavSeyris

adgilad mxatvrebisTvis, mocekvaveebisTvis

da yvela xelovanisTvis.

unda aRvniSno, rom ase-

Ti centri mxolod filadelfiaSi

ar gaixsneba, _ momaval wleb-

Si misi gaxsna igegmeba bostonSi,

niu-jersiSi, niu-iorkSi, maiamsa

da sxvagan. es gaxlavT Cemi globaluri

da masStaburi gegma Semdegi

aTwleulisTvis. xelovnebis

oazisebi, romlebic Cems saxels

daukavSirdeba, bedniers mxdis.

amis saSualebas es qveyana

maZlevs. mokled, am Caketilobis

Jams sxva araerTi gegmac daibada,

romelic male ganxorcieldeba.

_ miuRwevel ocnebad ra gr-

CebaT?

_ ver warmovidgendi, Cemi fondis

saxelobis festivali Tu

daarsdeboda da fexs moikidebda

msoflios pirvel scenaze karnegi

holSi es miuRwevel zRaprad

warmomedgina. am faqts mohyva

Cemi musikaluri centrebis

daarseba. vfiqrob, yvela momRerlis

ocnebaa, misi saxelobis centris

gaxsna. es pikia momRerlis

karieraSi da amiT bednieri var.

_ garda amisa, sxva arerTi

masStaburi gegma maqvs, romel-

sac Cvens mkiTxvels gzadagza

gavacnobT.

_ rac Seexeba saqarTveloSi

mimdinare proeqtebs, romlebic

Cemi fondis dafinansebiT pandemiamde

xorcieldeboda, igi

gagrZeldeba. „quTaisis saopero

festivalis CatarebaSi” finansurad

quTaisis meriac dagvexmara.

agreTve Cemi organizaciis

100%-iani dafinansebiT Camovidnen

da karnegi holis mayureblis

winaSe wardgnen niWieri bavSvebi.

es yvelaferi ki momavalSi ufro

masStaburad gagrZeldeba. vfiqrob,

ukve Semdgari qarTveli musikosebisTvisac

davgegmo iseTi

proeqti, romelic maT saSualebas

miscems, TavianTi xelovneba

msoflios did scenebze warmoa-

Cinon.

_ mTeli msoflio onlainswav-

lebis reJimze gadavida. Tqvenma

akademiam rogor gaarTva Tavi am

gamowvevas?

_ ra Tqma unda, moswavleebTan

urTierToba ar gamiwyvetia da

pandemiis periodSi distanciurad

vamecadinebdi maT. Cemi moswavleebi

mTeli msofliodan mikavSirdebian

da zumis, skaipis an

sxva platformebis saSualebiT

vurTierTobT. momRerlisTvis

„pedagogis yuri” mniSvnelovania

da amitom me Cems gamozrdil momRerlebs

yovelTvis xels vuwyob.

rac mTavaria, pandemiis pirobebSi

dawesebuli SezRudvebis

gauqmebis Semdeg aRdgeba yvela

festivali da konkursi, romelic

fond „saerTaSoriso talantebis”

egidiT imarTeboda. rogorc

iciT, moskovSi mravali welia

imarTeba masStaburi festivali

„Sobis dReebi daviT RvinianiZesTan

erTad” da igegmeba misi

aRdgenac. sxvadasxva qveyanaSi male

CavatarebT konkursebs da axal

proeqtebsac CavuyriT safuZvels.

_ rogoria daviT RvinianiZe

scenaze da mis miRma?

_ ra Tqma unda, CemSi ori mea

erTi, romelic xelovnebasa da

scenas ekuTvnis da meore romelic

sazogadoebaSi, xalxTan er-

Tad, cxovrobs. CemTvis adamianebTan

urTierToba umniSvnelovanesia

da vfiqrob, „calke akademiaa”.

cnobili gamonaTqvamia, rasac

daTesav, imas moimkio, hoda,

vfiqrob, adamianebs Soris siyvarulis

daTesva CemTvis umTavresia.

ar miyvars gulgrili

damokidebuleba. aseTi garemodan

gavdivar da vrCebi iq, sadac erTguleba,

siTbo da siyvarulia. me

am elementebs mimaCvies dedam da

bebiam. siyvarulSi vizrdebodi,

radgan ojaxSi dedisa da mamis

mxridan erTi biWi viyavi da

manebivrebdnen.

_ Tqvens profesias ise Tu

dauRlixarT, rom mis Secvalze

gifiqriaT?

_ profesias marTla Zalian

`masStabur proeqts vgegmav filadelfiaSi, mis

unikalur zonaSi, romelsac garSemo eqneba

didi sivrce, daaxloebiT 12-13 akri, sadac

moewyoba ulamazesi baRi da saparkinge adgili

200 manqanisTvis. erTi sityviT, es iqneba

unikaluri sivrce xelovnebisTvis uzarmazar

SenobaSi gaixsneba `daviT RvinianiZis musikisa

da xelovnebis centri~, sadac moewyoba 2000-

kaciani sakoncerto darbazi. es iqneba adgili,

sadac Zalian bevri musikosi SeZlebs Tavisi

xelovnebis demonstrirebas~

xSirad davuRlivar. magaliTad

mogiyvanT Cems ramdenimewlian

grafiks: gastrolebze gavdodi

agvistos bolodan da Sin 31 dekembers

vbrundebodi. am gastrolebis

Tanmdevi iyo TviTmfrinavebi,

manqanebi, matareblebi

imdenad rTuli iyo es profesia,

qirurgiuli Carevac ki damWirda,

radgan janmrTeloba damiziana.

marTalia, amerikaSi gadavaxarisxe

Cemi profesiuli cxovreba, Tumca

arasdros miTqvams, rom rames

Sevcvlidi Tavidan rom davibado,

isev am gzas avirCevdi.

_ ratom?

_ rac ki maqvs da risTvisac

mimiRwevia cxovrebaSi, pasportis

asaRebad misvla iqneboda, sazRvris

gadalaxvis dros komisarTan

saubari Tu eqimTan viziti, yovelTvis

vgrZnob xalxis siyvaruls.

roca igeben, rom saopero momRerali

da cnobili pirovneba var,

maTgan gansakuTrebul yuradRebas

vgrZnob, rac bevrjer

damxmarebia rTul momentebSi.

_ SemTxveva, romelsac ar dai-

viwyebT, karieras ukavSirdeba?

_ ra Tqma unda, Cemi pirveli

gamosvla scenaze dauviwyari wamia.

maSin konservatoriis pirveli

kursis studenti viyavi. vokaluri

xelovnebis postulatebis

dauflebis Semdeg pirvelad gamovedi

quTaisis lado mesxiSvilis

saxelobis dramatul scenaze

uzarmazari auditoriis winaSe.

maxsovs, maSin scenaze ori neapoluri

simRra vimRere: „miTxariT,

gogonebo” da „so le mio”

am ukanasknelSi maRali notebia

asaRebi. klasSi am notebs ise virtualurad

ver veuflebodi,

rogorc es scenaze SevZeli. maxsovs,

iseTi ganwyobiT gamovedi

scenaze, rom iq movaxerxre pirvelad

Cemi SesaZleblobis demonstrireba.

mivxvdi, rom es iyo

RvTisgan boZebuli profesia.

_ rogorc xelovans, risi

ufleba ar gaqvT?

_ imisi, rac Cveulebriv adamians

SeuZlia dauSvas. Cven gansakuTrebuli

magaliTi unda viyoT

momavali TaobisTvis, sxva

asakis xalxisTvisac, vinc Tvals

gvadevnebs. CemTvis miuRebelia

uxeSoba, Ralati da ulamazo

saqcielis demonstrireba.

_ ris miRwevaze ocnebobT? ra

dagrCaT miuRweveli?

_ rac mindoda, yvelafers mivaRwie.

saocnebod is damrCa, RmerTma

momces Zala, unari da

ufleba, yvela Cemi dawyebuli da

mimdinare gegmis gagrZeleba Sev-

Zlo. gansakuTrebulze araferze

vocnebob, radgan, vfiqrob, Zalian

bevri gavakeTe sakuTari adgilis

dasamkvidreblad dedamiwaze.

Cemi azriT, cxovrebaSi yvelaferi

zRapari ar aris, Tumca

Cveni SesaZleblobebi realurad

unda SevafasoT. imasac vxvdebi,

rom Cems xelovnebaSi jer kidev

bevri ram uTqmelia da momavalSi

minda vTqva.

_ ra aris TqvenTvis siyvaru-

li da imedi?

_ siyvaruli is haeria, romlis

gareSe arseboba warmoudgenelia.

siyvarulia, roca, vinc

giyvars mis gareSe cxovreba ar

SegiZlia. yvela sxva SemTxvevaSi

es grZnoba gatacebaa. me myvarebia

da amiT bednieri var. xelo-

vani adamianebi imediT varT ga-

JRenTili, Cven amiT vcxovrobT.

is Cveni barometria.

_ rogori bavSvi iyaviT, riT

gamoarCevdiT sakuTar Tavs sx-

vebisgan?

_ Zalian gansxvavebuli bavSvi

viyavi mixvedrili da gonieri. rac

mindoda, yovelTvis visrulebdi

xolme da miyvarda Cemi principebis

gatana. miuxedavad imisa, rom

axla rbili da Tbili xasiaTi maqvs,

bavSvobaSi Zalian mtkice viyavi. magaliTad,

sabavSvo baRSi 3 wlis

Semiyvanes da ar momwonda iq siaruli.

imdeni vitire, filtvebis an-

Teba damemarTa. Cemi ase gavitane

da Sin davrCi. mezoblebi roca mekiTxebodnen,

ratom ar xar baRSio,

specialurad avtexdi xvelas da

vpasuxobdi, _ filtvebis anTeba

maqvs-meTqi. bavSvobidan mitacebda

Jurnalistoba da wera. me-9 klasSi

davwere Tema: „me rom kulturis

ministri viyo”, romelic

dRemde saukeTeso TemaTa siaSia.

vwerdi araCveulebrivad da es Cemi

saavtoro gadacemebis sawindari

gaxda. yovelTvis viyavi xelmZRvaneli,

kapitani, lideri aman gansazRvra

kidec Cemi momavali.

_ pirad cxovrebaSi ra etapi

gaqvT mosalodnelia Tu ara

siaxle?

_ am sakiTxs Zalian yuradRebiT

vekidebi, radgan STamomavlobaze

vfiqrob. WriWinasaviT Wri-

Winis dro wavida.

_ Tqveni hobi...

_ bunebasTan cxovelebTan

urTierToba miyvars. gazafxuli

dadga da miwa yivis CemSi. imdenad

miyvars miwasTan urTierToba,

vfiqrob, ratom ar vcxovrob

sakuTar saxlSi, romelic bunebasTan

metad damaaxlovebs, sadac

Sinauri cxovelebis yolas SevZleb

da baRSi vifusfuseb. Tevzaobac

miyvars, magram nadiroba _

ara! „daviT RvinianiZis xelovnebis

centrSi” yvelaferi Cemi xeliTaa

gakeTebuli. TiToeuli

mcenare xe Tu yvavili sakuTari

xeliT davrge.

_ saqarTvelo da ucxoeTi

sad gaCerdebiT sabolood?

_ me vamayob qarTvelobiT da

sazRvargareT miRweuli warmatebiT

vubruneb mas dividends. erT

ambavs gavixseneb: dedaCemi 13

wlis asakSi gaxda Cempioni WadrakSi.

is peterburgis samedicino

universitetSi swavlobda da

man, faqtobrivad, gansazRvra Cemi

cnobiereba. erTxel mirCia is,

rac arasodes damaviwydeba: roca

ucxoels vxvdebodi, yovelTvis

vfiqrobdi imaze, rom mas Cem garda

SeiZleboda sxva qarTveli

aRarc enaxa. mindoda, ise vCvenebodi,

rom qarTvelze kargi STabeWdileba

Seqmnodao. es sityvebi

CemTvis metad principulia

roca me vxvdebi amerikels, germanelsa

Tu frangs, anu imaze met

ucxoels, vidre dedaCemi xvdeboda,

sul vfiqrob, rom Cemi gacnobiT

is Cems qveyanas ecnoba. am

pasuxismgeblobiT vcxovrob, Tumca,

jerjerobiT, saqarTveloSi

dabrunebas ar vapireb.

N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

37

„ragbi evropis” 2021 wlis Cempionatis gasvliTi

nawili saqarTvelos moragbeTa erovnulma

nakrebma maJoruli akordiT daagvirgvina ruseTs

ruseTSive 23:6 mougo, Tan sami upasuxo lelo

daudo da Sedegad bonus-qulac moipova.

es niSnavs, rom borjRalosnebma morigi titulisken

kidev erTi didi nabiji gadadges, radgan

win TbilisSi rumineTTan da belgia-niderlandebs

Soris uZlieresTan SexvedrebiRa rCeba.

rusebs rom yvelgan movugebdiT, es Cven vicodiT.

principSi, rusebsac ecodinebodaT, rom

krasnodari iqneba, krasnoiarski Tu axla ukve

kaliningradi, borjRalosnebi sadac daiWeren, iq

daamarcxeben!

bolo dros did gulze ki iyvnen, magram safexburTo

klub „baltikas” saSinao arenis Tovlisgan

saguldagulod gawmendilma da mZime gazonmac

ver uSvela.

pirveli lelo aka tabucaZem gaitana, mere

Tedo abJandaZem gamoiCina Tavi, meore taimSi ki

Tedom mSvenivrad dageza daviT niniaSvili da norCma

fulbekma karieraSi pirveli sanakrebo lelo

miiTvala. abJandaZem mxolod es lelo gardasaxa,

pirvel taimSi orive aacila, Tumca, samagierod,

ori sajarimo gaitana esaa borjRalosan-

Ta 23 qulis ariTmetika. rusebma ki ramil gaisinis

2 zusti gasroliTRa upasuxes.

bolos qarTvelebma gailaRes da is ragbi

aCvenes, romelsac amdeni xania, maTgan velodebiT.

etyoba, ruseTis faqtorma Tavisi qna…

asea Tu ise, es iyo qarTvelTa 23-e gamarjveba

rusebTan 25-e jaxSi.

momdevno kviras, 28 marts, rumineTs vumaspin-

ZlebT da anTimoz iverielis Tasis SenarCunebaze

viTamaSebT es jildo am or gunds Soris

TamaSdeba.

ruseTi

TbilisSi

Zveli ambavia, rom saqarTvelos dedaqalaqi 2022

wels kalaTburTSi evropis Cempionatis erT-erTi

TanamaspinZeli iqneba germaniasTan, italiasTan da

CexeTTan erTad. evropirveloba 1-18 seqtembers

gaimarTeba, Tibilisi ki erT-erT jgufs 1-7 seqtembers

umaspinZlebs.

Tbilisis jgufSi ruseTis nakrebi iTamaSebs. es

ambavi mas Semdeg gairkva, rac lietuvis kalaTbur-

Tis federaciam gamoacxada, rom momavali evropis

Cempionatis jgufur etapze germaniaSi iTamaSebs.

saqme isaa, rom TiToeul maspinZels ufleba

aqvs, erTi nakrebi airCios, romelic mis qveyanaSi

iTamaSebs. es, ZiriTadad, Semosavalzea gaTvlili.

gundebi irCeven iseT qveynebs, saidanac met gulSematkivrebs

elian. Cvenebma arCevani lietuvaze SeaCeres.

igive gaakeTes germanelebmac. sabolood,

baltiispirelebma arCevani germaniaze gaakeTes.

amasTan, lietuva meore kalaTaSi iyo. misi arCeviT

sasurvel stumarsac miviRebdiT da kidev erT

Zlier metoqes aviridebdiT. Sedegad moxda is, rom

saqarTvelos nakrebs meore kalaTidan metoqeebad

darCa ruseTi, italia da CexeTi. radgan italia da

CexeTi CvensaviT evropirvelobis TanamaspinZlebi

arian da Cvens jgufSi ver moxvdebian, dagvrCa ruseTi.

es yvelaferi 29 aprils oficialurad dadasturdeba.


rusi amaod

cdilobs...

115 milioni haerSi da... travmaSi

„realis“ belgiel varskvlavs, 30

wlis eden azars, SeiZleba karierisTvis

Tavis danebeba mouxdes. is kvlav

daSavda. es is SemTxvevaa, rodesac

amboben, travma TviTon miiRoo.

arada, gasul SabaTs, „elCesTan“ SexvedraSi,

azari moedanze vinisius

Junioris nacvlad bolo 15 wuTiT

Sevida da gamojanmrTelebasTan er-

Tad gamarjvebac (2:1) izeima. axla ki

isev kvirebi unda gamotovos.

espanuri media wers, rom koWTan

kunTis amdenma tkivilma is SeiZleba

fexburTs CamoaSoros. amboben, belgiels

mesame operacia dasWirdeba _

wina ori 2017 da 2020 wlebSi gaike-

Ta, magram „atletikos“ yofili eqimi,

espaneTSi cnobili xose gonsalesi,

belgiels afrTxilebs, rom kidev

erTma qirurgiulma Carevam mas Sesa-

Zloa, kariera daasrulebinos.

„koWze mesame operacia Zalian sariskoa,

_ Tqva gonsalesma, _ didi Sansia,

azarma saerTod Sewyvitos fexburTis

TamaSi. operaciis gareSe is

erT TveSi SeiZleba varjiSs Seudges,

magram TamaSi gamoricxulia. Cemi gamocdilebidan

SemiZlia giTxraT, rom

am sezonSi edeni „realis“ SemadgenlobaSi

veRar iTamaSebs”.

„realma“ eden azarSi 2019 wels „Celsis“

115 milioni evro gadauxada.

fuli

moitaneT...

kanadeli

CogburTeli

denis Sapovalovi dubais

turniris naxevarfinalSi

gavida, mere ki preskonferencia

gamarTa da bevr sain-

tereso sakiTxze isaubra.

„koronavirusis pandemiis

gamo mniSvnelovnad aris

Semcirebuli saCogburTo

turnirebis saprizo Tanxe-

bi. swored am mizeziT bevri

CogburTeli kargavs motivacias

da ubralod ar uRirs

romelime dabal biuje-

tian turnirze asparezoba.

ukve iseTi situaciaa, rom

mastersebzec ki arcTu ise

didi finansebia. gansxvavebulia

didi slemebi _ mag-

aliTad, avstraliaSi araTu

daakles SarSandel saprizo

Tanxebs, aramed momatebac

ki SeZles.

ra Tqma unda, moTamaSeebisTvis

Zalian rTuli sit-

uaciaa Seqmnili. imedia, ATP

rames moaxerxebs da isev daabrunebs

maRal aprizo Tanxebs

saCogburTo turnire-

bze. vfiqrob, ATP-is xelmZRvanelebs

SeeZloT, bev-

rad ukeT emarTaT es saqme.

imitom vTamaSob, rom

CogburTs CemTvis didi siamovneba

moaqvs. gansakuTrebiT

msiamovnebs did turnirebze

gamosvla. yovel-

Tvis veZeb axal motivacias..

magaliTad, wels viaspareze

dohaSi, vTamaSob dubais

turnirzec, sadac arasdr-

os miTamaSia _ bevri siaxle

aRmovaCine da amiT kmayof-

ili var.

rig turnirebze asparezoba

gaformebuli kontraqtebis

gamo miwevs. minda,

sworad gaigoT Cemi na-

Tqvami _ me miyvars Cogbur-

Tis TamaSi. msurs, movigo

didi turnirebi da reiting-

Sic davwinaurde, Tumca top

moTamaSeTa umetesobas es

motivacia ukve aRar gaaCnia

_ maT Tavis droze ukve moi-

ges mastersebi, didi slemis

turnirebi da axla aseT dabal

saprizo Tanxebze, ubr-

alod, ar iTamaSeben”.

38

38 N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.


vili Sromas

daafasebs

olimpiadas

Caketaven

saqarTvelos nakrebis axali

mwvrTneli vili sanioli qarTvel

Jurnalistebs pirvelad Sexvda.

frangi mwvrTneli „metexSi”

saqarTvelos fexburTis federaciis

vice-prezident aleqsandre

iaSvilTan erTad movida.

iaSvilis TqmiT, Semadgenlobis

dasaxelebis Semdeg saniolis

preskonferenciebi sistematur

xasiaTs miiRebs, radgan matCiswina

Sexvedrebis dros konkretuli

kiTxvebi iyos.

saniolis TqmiT, yvela gamoZaxebuli

fexburTelis TamaSi

naxa da 25 moTamaSis arCeva advili

ar yofila. misi azriT, nakrebSi

matCebis Catarebis raodenobiT

gundis dakompleqteba

ar SeiZleba da fexburTelebma

yovel SabaT-kviras unda daamtkicon,

rom erovnul gundSi yofnis

Rirsni arian. Tumca fexburTelebi,

romlebic axla ar

Sedian siaSi, SesaZloa, momaval-

Si gamoiZaxos.

rac Seexeba giorgi makariZis

aryofnas, Tavad samwvrTnelo

Stabis gadawyvetileba iyo, rom

fexburTeli klubisTvis daeTmoT.

Tumca, isic dasZina, rom

nakrebi ufro priviligebulia

da aseT detalebs, momavalSi,

ukve saCvenod gadawyveten.

saniolim isic dasZina, rom

erovnul ligaSi TamaSma fexburTels

nakrebSi moxvedraSi

xeli ar unda SeuSalos.

sadReisod nakrebs SetevaSi

ufro meti arCevani aqvs, magram

mwvrTneli amaze wuwuns ar

apirebs. piriqiT, didi ambiciebi

aqvs, magram mis misaRwevad

bevri unda iSromon…

zlatan ibrahimoviCi Svede-

Tis nakrebSi 4,5-wliani pauzis

Semdeg dabrunda. amis Sesaxeb

sazogadoebam orSabaTs Seityo,

roca zlatani saqarTvelosTan

da kosovosTan msoflio Cempionatis,

aseve estoneTTan amxanaguri

matCebisTvis gafarToebul

SemadgenlobaSi gamoiZaxes.

erovnul gundSi ibrahimoviCma

bolos 2016 wlis 22 ivniss

iTamaSa belgiis winaaRmdeg. es

evropis Cempionatis matCi gaxldaT,

turniris Semdeg ki saerTaSoriso

karieris dasrulebis

Sesaxeb gamoacxda. qomagebi

ukve maSin xumrobdnen, zlatani

ki ar wavida nakrebidan,

nakrebi wavida zlatanisgano.

dRes is 39 wlisaa da dabruneba

gadawyvita. „RmerTi brundeba”,

_ dawera zlatanma tviteris

sakuTar gverdze, mas Semdeg,

rac erovnul gundSi gam-

legenda qarTvelebTan dabrundeba

didi tokioSi

didi Sveicarieli, „didi muzaradis”

20-gzis gamarjvebuli Sveicarieli ro-

jer federeri ambobs, rom wleuls misi

mTavari mizani tokios olimpiur Tama-

SebSi gamarjvebaa. „Cemi umTavresi mi-

zani olimpiadaa. samwuxarod, 2016 wels

rioSi gamarTuli TamaSebi gamovtove.

vimedovneb, rom tokioSi davbrundebi.

mTavaria, im droisTvis karg formaSi

viyo”, ganacxada federerma. Segaxse-

nebT, rom „mxiaruli rojerma” 2008

wels, pekinSi, wyvilTa TanrigSi moigo

olimpiuri oqro. 2012 wels londonSi

ki finals uwia, magram iq Sotlandiel

endi marisTan daTmo.

oZaxebis ambavi Seityo. es fraza

SeiZleba, sasacilod JRers,

magram SvedebisTvis rom is sakulto

figuraa, amas veravin uaryofs.

2012 wels Sveduri enis

sabWom zmna _ zlatanera, rac

dominirebas niSnavs, oficialurad

daamtkica Svedur enaSi.

SarSan oqtomberSi erT-erT

interviuSi ibrahimoviCma mwvrTneli

gaakritika, aqaoda, eSinia

gundSi ucxouri warmo-

Sobis fexburTelebis miwvevao,

razedac andersonma aseve mediidan

miugo: msgavsi gancda arasodes

mqonia da zlatanma ase-

Ti gancxadebiT Zalian matkina

gulio.

mere ibram instagramSi SvedeTis

nakrebis maisurSi gada-

Rebuli foto gamoaqveyna warweriT:

„didi xania, erTmaneTi

ar gvinaxavs”. mere Tqva, rom

moenatra nakrebSi TamaSi.

zafxulis olimpiuri TamaSebi

wleuls iaponiaSi gaimarTeba.

vinaidan msofli-

oSi aramdgradi pandemiuri

viTarebaa, iaponiis xelisuflebam

miiRo gadawyvetileba,

TamaSebi ucxoeli qom-

agebis gareSe Catardes.

saerTaSoriso olimpiuri

komitetis prezident Tomas

baxs miaCnia, rom es organi-

zatorebis prerogativaa.

saboloo dadgenileba am

sakiTxis Sesaxeb martis bo-

lomde gamoqveyndeba.

am gancxadebidan or dReSi

andersoni da SvedeTis fexbur-

Tis federaciis generaluri

mdivani italiaSi gafrindnen

ibrahimoviCTan mosalaparakeblad.

„zlatanma nakrebSi dabrunebis

survili gamoTqva da mniSvnelovani

iyo masTan dauyovnebliv

Sexvedra. mixaria, rom

SevxvdiT. sasiamovno viTareba-

Si visaubreT da imedi gamovTqviT,

rom yvelaferi kargad

iqneba. marTalia, adre raRac

gaugebroba marTlac gvqonda,

magram axla es yvelaferi warsulSi

darCa”, _ ganacxada andersonma.

mokled, Zveli wyenebi daviwyebulia

da zlatanis sanakrebo

re-debiuti, didi albaTobiT,

25 marts, saqarTvelos nakrebTan

SesarCev matCSi Sedgeba.

gaza junglebSi

legendaruli pol gaskoini, inglisuri

fexburTis erT-erTi yvelaze

niWieri da qarizmatuli adamiani,

romelmac bolo dros lo-

TobiT da deboSebiT dagvamaxsovra

Tavi, axal realiTi-SouSi mi-

iRebs monawileobas momxiblav 2019

wlis mis italiasTan, karolina

stramaresTan erTad.

Sous hqvia „me cnobili adamiani

var... wamiyvane aqedan” da mas centralur

amerikaSi, hondurasis sanapirosTan

axlos gadaiReben. scenaris

mixedviT, 53 wlis gazas ver-

tmfrenidan zRvaSi Caagdeben. man

unda gacuros da patara kunZuls

miaRwios, sadac Sxamiani obobebi,

morielebi da aTasi saSineleba bu-

dobs. mere iwyeba Tavgadasavlebi,

romelsac ulamazesi naxevrad SiS-

veli qalbatonebi amSveneben.

N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

39

CIAN MAGENTA YALLOW BLACK

kviris horoskopi

verZi

am kviraSi verZis yuradRebis centrSi iqneba

urTierToba kolegebTan, xelmZRvanelobasTan

da masze wodebiT Tu asakiT ufros nebismier

adamianTan. sasurvelia uari TqvaT iniciativebze

im sakiTxebSi, romlebic Tqveni kompetenciis

sferoSi ar Sedis. es exeba rogorc

samsaxurs, ise pirad cxovrebas. cota xniT

gareSe damkvirveblis funqcia moirgeT. kviris

meore naxevarSi SesaZloa axali wyaroebi

gamoCndes finansuri mdgomareobis gamosasworeblad.

SabaT-kvira ojaxur garemoSi gaatareT.

kuro

varskvlavebi kuroebs urCeven, rom am kvira-

Si yuradReba miaqcion sakuTar janmrTelobas.

gamoricxeT fizikuri datvirTva, Sors iyaviT

yvelafrisgan, rac sulier komforts girRvevT.

cxovrebis Cveulebrivi wesidan mciredi gadaxrac

ki uaryofiTad aisaxeba Tqvens keTildReobaze.

yvela wamowyebaSi fsiqologiur daxmarebas

axloblebi gagiweven. es periodi Sesaferisi

droa dasrulebuli saqmeebis gasaanalizeblad

da axlis dasagegmad.

tyupi

tyupis niSnis qveS dabadebulTaTvis am kviris

mTavari movlenebi samsaxurSi ganviTardeba.

moqmedebis sruli Tavisufleba geZlevaT yvelaferSi,

rasac ki xels mohkidebT. yvelaferi,

rasac moisurvebT, moTxovnisTanave Sesruldeba.

SeecadeT es „saCuqari“ gonivrulad gamoiyenoT.

Zalian bevrs nu moisurvebT da garSemomyofebis

interesebic gaiTvaliswineT. sasargebloa

fizikuri varjiSebi, sufTa haerze seirnoba.

kirCxibi

mniSvnelovani cvlilebebi mosalodneli ar

aris, magram is, rac am dReebSi moxdeba, dagafiqrebT.

mizezi sayvareli adamianis moulodneli

aRiareba an umcrosi Taobis warmomadgenlis

qmedeba iqneba. am periodis ganmavlobaSi

kargia ifiqroT samomavlo gegmebze. optimisti

xarT da varskvlavebi yvelaferSi gexmarebian.

lomi

yvela gagebiT SemoqmedebiTi periodia mosalodneli.

faqtobrivad, CaeflobiT axloblebis,

Tayvanismcemlebis, megobrebis siyvarulSi. da

es yvelaferi dagexmarebaT, warmatebiT

gaumklavdeT rTul amocanebs, romelTa gada-

Wrac samsaxurSi mogiwevT. SeecadeT, daasruloT

yvela Zveli daumTavrebeli saqme. axalgazrda

qalebs varskvlavebi romantikul nacnobobas

hpirdebian.

qalwuli

bevri energia geqnebaT da aucileblad daniSnulebisamebr

unda gamoiyenoT, raTa Tavi

saukeTeso formaSi igrZnoT. kargi iqneba ojaxuri

sakiTxebis mogvarebiT dakavdeT, romlebic

adre ukeTes dromde gadadeT. es periodi moulodneli

Sexvedrebisa da nacnobobis kviraa.

martoxela qalbatonebs kargi Sansi aqvT, gadawyvetileba

miiRon da sabedos uari ar uTxran.

saswori

SeecadeT icxovroT aq da axla. am kvirisTvis

araferi ar dagegmoT, radgan gegmebi SeiZleba

xSirad Seicvalos, Tqvengan damoukideblad.

SesaZloa mogzauroba mogiwioT rogorc piradi,

ise saqmiani sakiTxebis mosagvareblad. gamoricxuli

ar aris Zveli urTierTobebis ganaxleba

an axali romanis dawyeba. ubralod, dasveneba

ar dagaviwydeT! gaanebivreT sakuTari Tavi spaprocedurebiTa

da axali varcxnilobiT.


yovelkvireuli gazeTi gamodis kviraSi

erTxel, samSabaTobiT da vrceldeba

saqarTvelos mTel teritoriaze

yovelkvireuli

gamodis samSabaTobiT fasi 2 lari

pirveli gverdi:

1 sm 2 _ 15 lari, maqsimaluri SekveTa 300 sm 2 ;

meore-mesame gverdebi:

1 sm 2 _ 3 lari;

Sida gverdebi:

1 sm 2 _ 1 lari;

bolos wina gverdi:

1sm 2 _2 lari;

bolo gverdi:

1sm 2 _ 3 lari,

maqsimaluri SekveTa _ mTeli gverdi;

mTliani gverdis saerTo farTobia _

1000 sm 2;

reklama CanarTis saxiT:

A3 formatis erT nomerSi ganTavseba _ 500 lari;

A4 formatis erT nomerSi ganTavseba _ 300 lari;

mis.: gudauris 7; 599 19 19 10 (Savlego cixelaSvili)

kviris horoskopi

morieli

cxovrebis yvela sferoSi warmateba axla

didwilad Tqvens aqtiurobazea damokidebuli,

amitom imoqmedeT! nu SegeSindebaT Secdomebis

daSvebisa. Tqveni amJamindeli saqmianoba xangr-

Zlivi da bednieri cxovrebisTvis karg safuZvels

gimzadebT. mSvenieri droa, rom sakuTari

Tavi warmoaCinoT rogorc samsaxurSi, ise siyvarulSi.

nu morcxvobT da geridebaT Tqvens

grZnobebze saubari!

mSvildosani

grandiozul samuSao gegmebs nu SeadgenT.

daicaviT distancia sayvarel adamianebTan da

megobrebTan urTierTobaSi. umjobesia am periodSi

izrunoT sakuTar Tavze, Tqvens fizikur

da fsiqikur janmrTelobaze. Tu martoxela

xarT, didi Sansia am kviraSi saocnebo pirovnebas

SexvdeT. SabaT-kvira wynarad, mSvid garemoSi

gaatareT.

Txis rqa

am kviris devizia: riski – keTilSobiluri

saqmea! iRbali Tqvens mxaresaa. warmatebis didi

Sansi geqnebaT yvelaferSi, rasac CaifiqrebT.

mosalodnelia mniSvnelovani cvlilebebi, romlebic

dakavSirebulia finansebTan, siyvarulsa

da megobrobasTan. kargi iqneba, gadaxedoT

Tqvens zogierT Sexedulebasa da Rirebulebas.

sizmrebi, romlebsac am periodSi naxavT, SeiZleba

winaswarmetyveluri aRmoCndes.

merwyuli

es kvira merwyulebisTvis SfoTiani da problemuri

droa. eWvebi gawuxebT. TqvenTvis am periodSi

sasworis erT mxares kariera da socialuri

warmateba iqneba, xolo meore mxares – siyvaruli

da ojaxis keTildReoba. mogiwevT, upiratesoba

mianiWoT romelimes. gadawyvetilebis

miRebisas Tqvens guls usmineT da mis xmas daeyrdeniT.

SesaZloa saCuqari an raime jildo miiRoT.

Tevzebi

axla yvelaze ufro seriozuli da pasuxismgeblobiT

savse xarT, vidre odesme. SeecadeT,

obieqturad SeafasoT sakuTari Tavi, garSemomyofebi

da yvelaferi, rac Tqven irgvliv xdeba.

kargi periodia warmatebuli saqmianobisTvis,

gansakuTrebiT profesiul da finansur sferoeb-

Si. amisTvis yvela sakiTxSi Tqven unda iyoT mmarTveli,

mxolod sakuTar Tavs unda daeyrdnoT.

eqstremalur pirobebSi daxmarebisTvis axlobel

adamianebs mimarTeT.

1 aSS dolari

3.3326

1 evro

3.9645

1 girvanqa sterlingi

4.6440

100 rusuli rubli

4.5170

amindi

orSabaTi

samSabaTi

oTxSabaTi

xuTSabaTi

paraskevi

SabaTi

kvira

Tbilisi

8-11 0

12-14 0

13-15 0

11-13 0

9-11 0

7-10 0

9-11 0

quTaisi

13-15 0

17-19 0

7-9 0

8-9 0

8-10 0

9-11 0

10-12 0

baTumi

14-16 0

18-20 0

6-8 0

5-6 0

7-8 0

8-10 0

9-11 0

zugdidi

14-15 0

19-21 0

7-9 0

8-9 0

9-11 0

9-11 0

11-13 0

gori

5-7 0

9-11 0

2-3 0

3-5 0

2-4 0

1-2 0

1-3 0

Telavi

10-12 0

16-18 0

17-19 0

12-14 0

10-12 0

11-13 0

12-14 0

foTi

13-15 0

15-17 0

8-10 0

9-11 0

11-13 0

10-12 0

11-13 0

40

saredaqcio kolegia

yvela ufleba daculia;

`qronika+~-Si gamoqveynebuli

masalebis nebismieri saxiT

gamoyeneba da gavrceleba

redaqciasTan SeuTanxmeblad

akrZalulia!

gazeTSi R niSniT gamoqveynebul

masalebs aqvT sareklamo

xasiaTi; maTSi gamoxatuli pozicia

SeiZleba ar daemTxves

redaqciis Sexedulebas.

mTavari redaqtori eliso kilaZe (599 17 12 12)

marsagiSvili Sorena 599 92 16 22

stilisti rusudan quTaTelaZe;

vano pavliaSvili 595 48 35 85

redaqciis misamarTi:

rostiaSvili Tamar 577 10 07 06

Tbilisi, gudauris N3,

SatakiSvili rezo 597 94 42 50

pirveli sarTuli, bina 4;

mosiaSvili maka 599 97 25 55

tel.: injgia nene 591 71 39 98

294 69 77;

sakaruli giorgi 555 42 42 81

sareklamo ganyofileba,

qemokliZe levan 593 16 01 40

gavrcelebis samsaxuri

mamulaZe xviCa 598 41 12 26

Savlego cixelaSvili 599 19 19 10

deviZe daviT

gazeTi ibeWdeba stambaSi `tori~

ISSN 2346-8025

294 69 77;

qronikaqronika@gmail.com

40 N4 (336) 22.03-4.04.2021 w.

qronika+336

Create successful ePaper yourself

Delete template?

Save as template?