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interviu Cawerilia 19 dekembers.<br />
_ qalbatono lela, axla ara mxolod<br />
saqarTvelo, aramed amerikac da<br />
evropac didi interesiT adevneben Tvalyurs<br />
safrangeTsa da ruseTs Soris<br />
mimdinare molaparakebebs samxedro vertmfrenmzidis<br />
_ `mistralis~ _ Sesyidvis<br />
Taobaze. ra Tqma unda, ruseTi ar<br />
akonkretebs, sad da rogor gamoiyenebs<br />
am xomalds, magram yvelaze sarwmuno<br />
versiiT, `mistrali~ afxazeTis sanapiroze<br />
Casayeneblad esaWiroeba. amitomacaa gasakviri<br />
safrangeTis pozicia. es xom is<br />
qveyanaa, romlis prezidentic esoden<br />
aqtiurad iyo CarTuli ruseT-saqarTvelos<br />
Soris arsebul daZabulobaSi.<br />
_ gaixseneT 1992-1993 wlis winaswarmetyvelebebi,<br />
romlebic exeboda yvela evropul qveyanas<br />
da aseve amerika-evropis urTierTobebs.<br />
da nu gaviwydebaT sityvebi, naTqvami 1992<br />
wels: `ruseTs Zalian surs afxazeTis SeerTeba,<br />
magram es Ria, utvino TamaSia da arasdros<br />
moxdeba; xolo is sisxli, rac rusebma<br />
saqarTveloSi daRvares, sakuTar saxlSi<br />
taifunad gadaeqcevaT~. es aris globaluri<br />
xedva da winaswarmetyveleba, romelic gakeTda<br />
mravali wlis win da TavisTavad cxadyofs<br />
ruseTis saboloo damarcxebas saqarTvelo-<br />
Si. amitom, gemebs daayeneben aq Tu kosmosur<br />
xomaldebs, amas araviTari mniSvneloba<br />
ar aqvs. Tanac, saerTo jamSi, afxazeTis<br />
sanapiroze Cayenebul gemebs afeTqeba aweriaT,<br />
anu terorebi. mere ki jarTad gayidian.<br />
`mistrals~ saqarTvelosTvis safrTxis Seqmnis<br />
TvalsazrisiT araviTar mniSvnelobas<br />
ar vaniWeb da ai ratom: es aris okeanis,<br />
anu didi sivrcis gemi da ara Savi zRvis<br />
akvatoriisTvis Sesaferisi Tavisi zomebis<br />
gamo (me, ra Tqma unda, gemebisa araferi<br />
vici, rogorc vxedav amwuTas, ise vambob).<br />
hoda evropas, TurqeTsa da irans (sadac<br />
ruseTi udides bazas ikeTebs) is urCevniaT,<br />
kargad dafiqrdnen amaze, mixvdnen, rom ruseTi<br />
maT daartams da patara saqarTvelo aq<br />
arafer SuaSi ar aris (axla, politologebo<br />
da eqspertebo, ar miiTvisoT es<br />
winaswarmetyvelebac da sakuTari analizebis<br />
nayofad ar gaasaRoT, rogorc yovelTvis.<br />
isev TqvenTvis vambob amas, imitom, rom<br />
kosmosi saTiTaod dagsjiT. sircxvilia,<br />
bolosdabolos, rame sakiTxze sakuTari azri<br />
xom unda gagaCndeT?)!<br />
mokled, roca evropa kargad mova azrze,<br />
rom es ruseT-saqarTvelosi ki ara, ruseTamerika-evropis<br />
omia, cota dagvianebuli ar<br />
aRmoCndes. samxedro vertmfrenis pirveli<br />
afrena `mistralidan~, isic Tu afrinda,<br />
ganxorcieldeba safrangeTis winaRmdeg da<br />
italiasac zed daayoleben.<br />
Tumca, aqve isic minda aRvniSno, rom<br />
`mistrali~ TiTqmis ukve CamosawerTa siaSia<br />
da ruseTs igi safrTxobelasaviT dasaSineblad<br />
Wirdeba. ki, evropac ase fiqrobs,<br />
magram am safrTxobelas rusebi, Tu daWirdebaT,<br />
gamoiyeneben da mizansac ar aacdenen.<br />
ase rom, saqarTvelos garda, yvela frTxilad<br />
iyos.<br />
_ qalbatono lela, rodesac Tqveni<br />
1994 wlis 5 maisisa (`sad aris rusuli<br />
armia, rusuli floti? ar iarsebebs!!!~.)<br />
da 1996 wlis 29 noembris (`ruseTs<br />
sakuTari Tavi aqvs gadasarCeni, magram<br />
cocxali TaviT ar unda, rom saqarTvelos<br />
xeli gauSvas. vnaxoT, sadamde eyofaT<br />
Zala. ruseTis armia _ jari ar<br />
arsebobs!!! absoluturad daSlilia!~)<br />
Canawerebi wavikiTxe pirvelad, simar-<br />
Tle giTxraT, dajereba gamiWirda. verafriT<br />
warmovidgendi, rom im saxelmwifos<br />
samarTalmemkvidres, romlis biujetis<br />
uudidesi nawili swored SeiaraRebisa<br />
da Tavdacvis gaZlierebaze<br />
ixarjeboda, aseTi problemebi Seeqmneboda.<br />
darwmunebuli var, aseTi ganwyoba<br />
eqneboda, Tu yvelas ara, Zalian<br />
bevrs mainc. Tumca, gamoxda xani da<br />
dRes yvela xilulad darwmunda<br />
winaswarmetyvelebis WeSmaritebaSi.<br />
da me getyviT Tqven...<br />
mkiTxvels yovel nomerSi vTavazobT<br />
intervius qarTvel winaswarmetyvelTan.<br />
igi isaubrebs mocemuli momentisTvis<br />
yvelaze metad aqtualur Temebze, Tumca<br />
qalbatoni lelas pasuxebi yovelTvis<br />
efuZneba ramdenime wlis win Caweril<br />
winaswarmetyvelebebs.<br />
_ saqme isaa, rom sabWoTa kavSiris<br />
daSlis Semdeg ruseTSi fulis Sovnaze ufro<br />
iyvnen gadarTulebi, vidre SeiaraRebuli<br />
Zalebis gaZlierebaze. swored amitom hyavdaT<br />
rusebs uamravi milioneri. roca saqme<br />
saqmeze midga da mTeli msoflio alaparakda<br />
rusuli armiisa da SeiaraRebuli Zalebis<br />
sisusteze, ruseTma TamaSi daiwyo _<br />
udidesi fsiqologiuri TamaSi. aman Tavisi<br />
Sedegi gamoiRo evropis mimarT. unda exla<br />
Tbil bumbulebSi gaxveul evropas ruseTis<br />
problemebi? ar unda! magram ai im bumbulebs<br />
rom daaputavs kremli, mere vnaxav<br />
seirs.<br />
aqve aucileblad unda vuTxra da Sevaxseno<br />
mkiTxvels, rom ruseTis yvela mcdeloba<br />
absoluturad gaSiSvlebulia. me maqvs<br />
winaswarmetyveleba, ruseTma aRmosavleT<br />
sazRvrebs mixedos, Torem Cinelebi moskovs<br />
male patara pekins daarqmeven-meTqi. am problemas<br />
ruseTi ver moagvarebs da omic gaCaRdeba.<br />
garda amisa, ruseTs uzarmazar Tavsatexad<br />
rCeba CrdiloeT kavkasia. ukve momxdari<br />
teraqtebi araferia imaTTan SedarebiT, rasac<br />
momavalSi mouwyoben. iqneba gaugonar terorebi,<br />
afeTqebebi moxdeba iseT obieqtebze,<br />
sadac SeRweva TiTqos SeuZlebelia. es 1994-<br />
1997 wlebSi nawinaswarmetyvelebi movlenebis<br />
dasturia, rom muslimuri samyaro moimarTeba<br />
ruseTis winaaRmdeg. swored amitom vwinaswarmetyvelebdi,<br />
rusis jari garbis saku-<br />
Tari miwis dasacavad-meTqi da asec moxdeba.<br />
_ amasobaSi, rogorc araerTxel<br />
brZaneT, saqarTvelosa da ruseTs Soris<br />
informaciuli omi grZeldeba. amas winaT<br />
tailandSi CrdiloeT koreidan gamofrenili<br />
TviTmfrinavi daakaves, romelsac<br />
didZali iaraRi gadahqonda. rusulma<br />
mediam myisierad gaavrcela informacia,<br />
dakavebuli TviTmfrinavi saqarTvelos<br />
ekuTvniso. marTlac hqonda Tu ara<br />
raime saxis kavSiri saqarTvelos am<br />
TviTmfrinavTan?<br />
_ ki, magram, Tuki rusebi samxedro<br />
gemebs yiduloben, CvenTvis akrZalulia iaraRis<br />
SeZena? Tu saqarTvelos qmedebaa ukanono<br />
da kremlisa kanonieri? ai eg agiJebs ruseTs,<br />
rom saqarTvelo iaraRdeba. hoda, gaskdnen<br />
gulze: diaxac, Cveni iyo is TviTmfrinavi<br />
da eg ra aris _ kidev bevri TviTmfrinavi<br />
Camoitans imas, rac esoden Wirdeba saqarTvelos<br />
_ iaraRs! rac saqarTvelos momavalSi<br />
eqneba, im frangul gemze bevrad uaresia.<br />
ara, exla bodiSs movuxdiT ruseTs, ar<br />
gewyinoT, armias rom vaiaraRebT-Tqo.<br />
TviTon rom amayad aCveneben, rogor amarageben<br />
afsuebs iaraRiT da rogor iwyeben<br />
iq samxedro bazebis mSeneblobas, es dasaSvebia?<br />
Tumca, ra? rogorc adre viwinaswarmetyvele,<br />
ruseTi afxazeTsa da sama-<br />
CabloSi sakuTar bazebs ver ganalagebs.<br />
iwyeben keTebas, magram ver gaakeTeben.<br />
ase rom, saqarTvelos eqneba uZlieresi,<br />
ultraTanamedrove SeiaraReba. swored es<br />
Seqmnis uzarmazar dacviT bades, romelsac<br />
veravin, veraviTari Zala ver garRvevs! ase<br />
rom, ramdenic unda ixtunaos ruseTma, mainc<br />
verafers miaRwevs.<br />
_ qalbatono lela, zemoT italia<br />
axseneT. am qveynis mTavroba marTlac<br />
rom gadaWarbebul loialobas iCens<br />
ruseTis mimarT. amis erT-erTi magali-<br />
Tia italiis sagareo saqmeTa ministris<br />
mondomeba, evrokavSiris qveynebma savizo<br />
reJimi gauuqmon ruseTs. sxvaTa<br />
Soris, SarSandeli omis Semdeg evropis<br />
qveynebma es sakiTxi saqarTvelosTan<br />
dakavSirebiT wamoswies, roca isini Zalian<br />
aRSfoTebul-SeSfoTebulebi iyvnen kremlis<br />
politikiT. daTanxmdebian Tu ara<br />
evropis sxva saxelmwifoebi italiis<br />
(gagrZeleba gv.10)<br />
redaqtoris TviTneburi, magram koreqtuli pasuxi<br />
erTi satelevizio arxis erTi gadacemis `wamyvans!~<br />
rogorc saTaurSive xedavT, adresati ar<br />
konkretdeba. es ki imas niSnavs, rom arc<br />
polemikas vapireb vinmesTan da arc pasuxs<br />
viTxov (ufro gulaxdilad ki, vindob).<br />
Cemi mokle da vfiqrob, marTlac Zalze<br />
koreqtuli werili (udidesi aRSfoTebis<br />
miuxedavad, zrdilobis CarCoebs araviTar<br />
SemTxvevaSi ar gavcdebi) sainformacio-ganmartebiT<br />
xasiaTs atarebs. TviTneburi ki<br />
imitomaa, rom qalbatoni lelasTvis, cxovrebaSi<br />
pirvelad, werilis Sesaxeb araferi<br />
miTqvams da ar SemiTanxmebia.<br />
erTi sityviT, telemayureblis SekiTxvaze<br />
(diletanturi) pasuxis (kompetenturi)<br />
pasuxi axla iwereba, magram SeiZleba dRis<br />
sinaTle ver ixilos im martivi mizezis<br />
gamo, rom Cemi TviTneboba droulad aRkveTon.<br />
es xumrobagaSvebiT.<br />
seriozulad da Tanac, friad seriozulad<br />
ki...<br />
Rrmad pativcemulo X,<br />
minda gacnoboT, rom lela kakulias<br />
winaaRmdeg SarSan, agvistos Semdeg gansakuTrebiT<br />
gaaqtiurebuli Ria da<br />
mravalmxrivi brZola nel-nela misustda,<br />
miinavla da TiTqmis srulad Sewyda.<br />
ara, amis mizezi is ar aris, rom qalbatoni<br />
lelasdami interesi ganelda, piriqiT<br />
_ interesi mzardia. ubralod, saqme<br />
isaa, rom isini, vinc ilaSqrebdnen<br />
winaswarmetyvelebis winaaRmdeg, qilikobdnen<br />
da lazRandarobdnen kosmiur informaciebze,<br />
anu xelisufleba, opozicia, rusuli<br />
specsamsaxurebi, politolog-eqspertebi<br />
da kidev erTi Zalian Semosavliani samsaxuris<br />
TanamSromlebi, iZulebulni gaxdnen,<br />
gaCumebuliyvnen, vinaidan movlenebis ganvi-<br />
Tarebam da Seqmnilma situaciam maTac da<br />
sxvebsac daanaxa, rom lela kakulias Ti-<br />
Toeuli sityva asrulda da saTqmeli aRaravis<br />
aRaraferi darCa.<br />
aba, rogorRa unda Seayaron TvalSi<br />
nacari sazogadoebas, rodesac, miuxedavad<br />
aTasi bunebrivi Tu xelovnuri barierisa,<br />
Cveni gazeTi mainc gamoicema, qalbatoni<br />
lelas informaciebi mainc midis mkiTxvelamde<br />
da xalxma mSvenivrad gaigo, ufro<br />
sworad, darwmunda, rom irgvliv yvela<br />
tyuis, garda winaswarmetyvelisa da<br />
winaswarmetyvelebisa.<br />
amitom, mavanis gasagonad minda vTqva:<br />
Tqveni mcdeloba, axali talRa aagoroT<br />
winaswarmetyvelis winaRmdeg, amaoa da fuWi.<br />
nu cdilobT, iyoT patriarqze ufro metad<br />
marTlmadidebeli (momiteveT perifrazisTvis)<br />
da eWviT SexedoT WeSmaritebas.<br />
gacnobebT, rom lela kakulias didi<br />
xania, moZRvaric hyavs (misi pirveli moZRvari<br />
awgardacvlili margveli mitropoliti<br />
meufe konstantine gaxldaT, romlis<br />
araerTi werilobiTi kurTxeva, rogorc<br />
winaswarmetyvelisa, qalbaton lelasTan inaxeba<br />
da gazeTSic araerTxel gamoqveynebula;<br />
amJamindeli moZRvari ki mama faranavazi<br />
gaxlavT, iveriis RvTismSoblis taZridan),<br />
uamrav saeklesio pirTanac megobrobs (maT<br />
Soris, umaRlesi rangis warmomadgenlebTanac,<br />
romlebic didi sixaruliT stumroben<br />
xolme masTan saxlSi, vinaidan zustad<br />
ician, visTanac aqvT saqme), eklesiaSic<br />
dadis (ufro metic, saqarTvelos lamis<br />
yvela eklesia-monasteri aqvs molocvili)<br />
da mTel samyaroSi kaci ver Seedreba<br />
rwmenis siZliereSi. amitom Tqveni mowodeba,<br />
aiyvanos moZRvari da iaros eklesiaSi,<br />
garda imisa, rom Zlier dagvianebulia,<br />
zedmeticaa da sruliad usargebloc.<br />
da kidev: iciT ratomaa lela kakulia<br />
rwmenaSi Seudareblad Zlieri? imitom rom<br />
is pirdapir xedavs da esaubreba imas,<br />
visac mavani sityviT aRiarebs, guliT ki<br />
ara, vinaidan bolomde ar swams!<br />
ase rom, mSvidad brZandebodeT, batonebo.<br />
lela kakulias saxiT qarTul eklesias<br />
wiaRSi `Ze cTomili~ ki ar hyavs, aramed<br />
WeSmariti winaswarmetyveli.<br />
da Tu vinmes amisa ar swams, es misi<br />
piradi problemaa.<br />
uRrmesi pativiscemiT,<br />
irma gelaSvili.<br />
mTavari redaqtori: irma gelaSvili<br />
gazeTi registrirebulia vake-saburTalos raionul sagadasaxado inspeqciaSi.<br />
gazeTSi da vebgverdze gamoyenebuli masalebis da fotoebis gadabeWdva-gamoqveyneba<br />
redaqciis Tanxmobis gareSe akrZalulia. saavtoro uflebebi daculia.<br />
www.lelakakulia.ge / el-fosta: lelakakulia@yahoo.com<br />
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