qronika+323

CIAN MAGENTA YALLOW BLACK

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yovelkvireuli gazeTi

gamodis samSabaTobiT N21 (323) 15.09

09.20

.2020

fasi 2 lari

gv. 6

`surkovma

`qarTul

ocnebas~

moskovidan

miTiTebebi

Camoutana~

Tamar CxeiZe:

òpozicia

ivaniSvilis

winaaRmdeg

erTiani

siiT unda

gamosuliyo~

gv. 16

anzor biwaZe:

`qarTuli

ocneba~

xelisuflebaSi

Tu darCa,

90-ian wlebSi

davbrundebiT~

gv. 24

grifiT saidumlo

gv. 2

ras wers guram

amirxanaSvili

mexuTed

Secvlil

CvenebaSi? gv. 2

xaTuna lagaziZe: `Cemi gatexa, mliqvnelad

da mexotbed qceva aravis gamouva!~

gv. 18

paata daviTaia:

`vcdilob,

opoziciaSi

arsebuli

problemebi

gareT ar

gamovides~

N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.

nana devdariani:

`kohabitacia

narnarad

koaliciur

mTavrobaSi

gadadis!~

gv. 8 gv. 10 gv. 16

aleqsandre kobaiZe:

`mTavari

prokurori

SoTaZe `qarTuli

ocnebis~

politikuri

iaraRia~

1


ratom daades grifiT saidumlo

giorgi SaqaraSvilis mkvlelobis

eliso kilaZe

Semdeg dakavebuli 17 piridan zogi-

599 17 12 12

erTs brali daumZimes, zogierTsac

saproceso garigebas uformeben.

gamoZieba ojaxis advokati biZisa da sagamoZiebo eqsperiment-

ebis imedadaa. axali mtkicebulebebi mkvlelobis saqmeSi ar

devs. mas Semdeg, rac mediam saqmis masalebis 23 tomSi uamravi

urTierTgamomricxavi faqti da Cveneba aRmoaCina, ramac Tav-

dayira daayena pirvandeli versia, gamosavali saqmis darCenil

sam tomze grifiT saidumlos dadeba aRmoCnda, braldebuleb-

is advokatebs ki gauTqmelobaze moawerines xeli. amis miuxe-

davad, „qronika+~ gTavazobT saqmis erT-erTi mTavari mowmis,

guram amirxanaSvilis mexuTed Secvlil Cvenebas.

guram amirxanaSvili

studenti

saqmesTan dakavSirebiT mogaxsenebT,

rom msurs damatebiT mogawodoT

informacia da davazusto

rigi garemoebebi, romlebzec visaubre

wina gamokiTxvis dros.

mogaxsenebT, rom 2020 wlis 19 ivniss

Ramis saaTebSi ana gabeCavas

dabadebis dRidan wamosvlis Semdgom

me, giorgi SaqaraSvili, fotografi

iakob bregaZe, dijei konstantine

RibraZe, vaxtang axvlediani

da giorgi qaTamaZe fexiT gadavadgildebodiT

mdinare aragvze,

gadasasvlel saavtomobilo

xidze Tbilisis mimarTulebiT.

xidze gadasvlisas konstantine

RibraZe da giorgi qaTamaZe midiodnen

win, maT ukan midioda iakob

bregaZe da mas Semdeg mivdiodiT

me, giorgi SaqaraSvili da

vaxtang axvlediani, aqve mogaxsenebT,

rom im pirTa nawilis saxelebi

da gvarebi me wina gamokiTxvisas

zustad ar vicodi, Tumca

SemdegSi gavige, vin vin iyo. mas

Semdgom, rodesac Cven gadaviareT

aragvis xidi da gaviareT ramdenime

metri, konstantine RirbaZis da

giorgi qaTamaZis win gaCerda vercxlisferi

avtomobili, rogorc

SemdgomSi gavige, „mersedesis”

markis, saidanac swrafad gadmovida

manqanaSi myofi eqvsi pirovneba,

romlebic wamovidnen Cveni mimarTulebiT,

ra drosac davinaxe,

rom manqanis wina marjvena karidan

gadmosul pirovnebas, romelic

Semdgom amovicani da gavige, rom

iyo nika Jvania, xelSi ekava daaxloebiT

40-50 sm-is mogrZo formis

rkinis xelketi, rac miaxloebisTanave

daartya konstantine RibraZes.

aRniSnulis Semdgom, rogorc

maxsovs, konstantine RibraZe

gaiqca maTgan Tbilisis mimarTulebiT,

amavdroulad, me davinaxe,

rom xidis mxridan Cveni mimarTulebiT

gamoiqca is ori pirovneba,

romelic gzaze msvlelobis

dros wamogvewia da giorgi qaTamaZes

gamoarTves telefonis nomeri.

rogorc Semdgom Sevityve,

isini iyvnen laSa Sermadini da giorgi

merabiSvili. amavdroulad,

avtomanqanidan gadmosulma pirebma

giorgi qaTamaZes dauwyes cema,

xolo nawili gamoiqca Cveni mimarTulebiT,

ra drosac vaxtang axvlediani

garkveuli periodi Seyovnda,

xolo me da giorgi SaqaraSvili

gaviqeciT aragvis xidze, dasavleTis

mimarTulebiT, ise rom

meore mimarTulebis samoZrao zolSi

ar gadavsulvarT. male Cven

wamogvewia vaxtang axvledianic,

xolo iakob bregaZe im momentSi saiT

gaiqca, ar daminaxavs da Semdgomac

veRar vnaxe versad. Cven gavediT

xidis TiTqmis bolomde da

gavCerdiT, radgan Cveni mimarTulebiT

wamosuli pirovnebebi

aRar mogvdevdnen. rodesac ukan

movixedeT, davinaxe, rom avtomobiliT

mosuli pirebi scemdnen da

grifiT saidumlo

ras wers guram

amirxanaSvili mexuTed

Secvlil CvenebaSi?

Tan aginebdnen giorgi qaTamaZes,

ra drosac aRniSnul pirebTan

agreTve mividnen da maTTan erTad

giorgi qaTamaZis cema daiwyes

giorgi merabiSvilma da laSa Sermadinma.

cemis dros giorgi qaTamaZe

Seecada gaqcevas, ra drosac

igi waiqca. zemoaRniSnulma pirebma

ganagrZes waqceuli giorgi

qaTamaZis cema, Tumca maleve

daanebes mas Tavi da Casxdnen avtomanqanaSi

da wavidnen Tbilisis

mimarTulebiT. avtomobiliT wavidnen

„mersedesiT” mosuli eqvsive

pirovneba, agreTve giorgi merabiSvili

da laSa Sermadini. verc

erTi maTgani me im teritoriaze

mobrunebis dros veRar vnaxe. avtomobiliT

wasvlis Semdgom, me

vaxtang axvledianma da giorgi

SaqaraSvilma kvlav gadaviareT

aragvis xidi da mivediT giorgi

qaTamaZesTan, romelsac mivexmareT

da wamovayeneT fexze. mas

cemis gamo dazianebebi etyoboda

saxeze da sxvadasxva adgilidan

modioda sisxli. am dros im teritoriaze

me giorgi SaqaraSvilis,

vaxtang axvledianisa da giorgi

qaTamaZis garda aravin daminaxavs,

Sesabamisad, vimyofebodiT oTxni,

xolo konstantine RibraZe da iakob

bregaZe ar viciT, Tu sad wavidnen.

mas Semdgom, rac Cven fexze

wamovayeneT giorgi qaTamaZe, oTxivem

erTad kvlav ganvagrZeT

moZraoba Tbilisis mimarTulebiT

da sanam samrecxaosTan mivediT,

SevCerdiT moxreSil moedanze, ra

drosac CvenTan axlos gaCerda

muqi feris avtomanqana, romelic,

rogorc mere CemTvis cnobili gaxda,

aris „toiota qamris” markis da

modelis. am avtomanqanis gaCerebisTanave

Cven mivxvdiT, rom isev

apirebdnen Cvens cemas, ris gamoc

oTxive maSinve gaviqeciT aragvis

xidis mimarTulebiT, avtomobilis

gaCerebisTanave swrafad gadmovidnen

manqanaSi myofi pirebi

eqvsi pirovneba, romlebsac aSkarad

etyobodaT, rom Cven mimarT

iyvnen agresiulad ganwyobilebi

da isini sirbiliT da ginebiT gamoiqcnen

Cveni mimarTulebiT. Cvengan

pirveli garboda giorgi

SaqaraSvili, Semdgom mirboda vaxtang

axvlediani, mis Semdeg gavrbodi

me da Cem ukan morboda giorgi

qaTamaZe. mas Semdgom, rac gadavirbineT

xidi, davinaxe, rom giorgi

SaqaraSvilma gadakveTa saavtomobilo

gza, Semdgom gzebis gamyofi

gazoni da gadavida meore mxares,

dasavleTis mimarTulebiT

samoZrao zolSi, mas miyva aseve

vaxtang axvlediani, Semdgom mec.

mas Semdgom, rac me gadavWeri gza

da gadavedi gzebis gamyof gazonze,

davinaxe, rom giorgi SaqaraSvili

da vaxtang axvlediani garbodnen

dasavleTis mimarTulebiT

da saavtomobilo gzis marjvena

mxares, Cauxvies e. w. meorexarisxovan

meorad saavtomobilo

gzaze, am dros, vinaidan ukve sirbiliT

viyavi daRlili, amasTan

mecva sirbilisTvis arakomfortuli

fexsacmeli, ris gamoc Sesa-

Zloa damweodnen mdevrebi, gadavwyvite

davmaluliyavi gzis marjvena

mxares, arsebuli feradi Senobis

ukan, mivirbine aRniSnul SenobasTan,

Tumca vidre Sevirbendi

feradi Senobis ukan, davinaxe, rom

vaxtang axvlediani garboda e. w.

meorexarisxovan (meoradi) saavtomobilo

gzaze xelmarcxniv mdebare

buCqebis mxares, xolo giorgi

SaqaraSvili garboda mis win

saavtomobilo gzaze, daRmarTze.

rodesac Sevedi feradi Senobis

ukan, vinaidan iyo sibnele da ver

vxedavdi iq arsebul teritorias,

guri amirxanaSvili

egreve Cavvardi iqve arsebul ormos

msgavss dablobze, saidanac

maSinve amovedi ukan da radgan

mainteresebda situacia, frTxilad

gamovixede Senobis im napiridan,

saidanac Sevedi, ra drosac

vxedavdi rogorc avtobanis mxares,

aseve e. w. meorexarisxovan

saavtomobilo gzas srulad. avtobanis

mxridan veranairi moZraoba

ver SevniSne, magram davinaxe, rom

swrafi sirbiliT, yviriliTa da

ginebiT meorad saavtomobilo

gzaze daRmarTze Carbodnen „qamridan”

gadmosuli Cveni mdevrebi,

sami axalgazrda biWi, romlebic me

mogvianebiT amovicani da isini

arian vaxtang Ciqovani, akaki qvriviSvili

da zezva xomasuriZe, samive

maTgani garboda im mimarTulebiT,

saiTac Cairbines vaxtang axvledianma

da giorgi SaqaraSvilma, am

dros me vaxtang axvlediani da

giorgi SaqaraSvili aRar daminaxavs,

vinaidan me viyavi SeSinebuli

da Tan mdevrebis nawils ar hqonda

gadmokveTili avtobani da ar

vicodi, ras moimoqmedebdnen. gadavwyvite,

isev buCqebSi damalva

da Cavedi aRniSnuli Senobis ukan,

ra drosac Cavvardi eklian buCqeb-

Si da miviRe dazianebebi, magram

miuxedavad amisa, me ukan ar amovsulvar.

Sevecade kargad davmaluliyavi,

raTa ar vepove „qamridan”

gadmosul pirebs, Tumca erTerT

eklian buCqSi gaviWede da ver

vaxerxebdi win wasvlas, aRniSnul

adgilas viyavi daaxloebiT Svidirva

wuTis ganmavlobaSi, ris Sedegadac

kvlav gavigone ramdenime

pirovnebis xma, romlebic modiodnen

meoradi saavtomobilo gzis

mxridan, qvevidan zeviT. am dros

gineba aRar yofila, TandaTan es

xmebi miaxlovdebodnen, Tan yvirodnen,

rom gamovsuliyaviT da

arafers dagviSavebdnen. maleve

isini, savaraudod, Cemi qmedebiT

gamowveuli xmauris gamo, movidnen

Senobis ukan, saidanac Cemi danaxva

iyo SesaZlebeli, aSkarad maT

daminaxes da damiZaxes, rom amovsuliyavi.

vinaidan mec wasasvleli

gza ar mqonda, gadavwyvite, rom amovsuliyavi

ukan SenobasTan, sadac

iyvnen aRniSnuli pirebi, romlebic

kvlav momiwodebdnen, rom amovsuliyavo.

buCqebidan gamosvlis

Semdgom ferad SenobasTan davinaxe

swored is sami axalgazrda

biWi, romelic ramdenime wuTis win

garboda giorgi SaqaraSvilis mimarTulebiT,

romlebsac etyobodaT,

rom iyvnen daRlilebi da

aforiaqebulebi. aRniSnuli sami

biWi iyo, rogorc zemoT aRvniSne,

zezva xomasuriZe, akaki qvriviSvili

da vaxtang Ciqovani. amosvlisTanave

me maT vuTxari, rom CxubSi

monawileoba ar mimiRia da

2 N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.


giorgi SaqaraSvilis mkvlelobis saqmes?

mxolod vaSvelebdi, rac erT-erTma

maTganma damidastura. buCqebidan

Cemi gamosvlidan maleve davinaxe,

rom igive gzis pirze gaCerda

muqi feris „toiota qamri”, saidanac

gadmovida mZRoli, romelic

me mogvianebiT amovicani da igi

aris vasil maxaraZe. avtomobilis

mosvlidan daaxloebiT erTi-ori

wuTis Semdgom, sanam me vesaubrebodi

da veubnebodi im oTx pirs,

vin viyavi da ratom davimale, qvemodan,

anu meoradi saavtomobilo

gzidan, xidis qveS arsebuli sivrcidan

amovida ori pirovneba, romlebic

manamde am gzaze Carbenili

ar daminaxavs. me aRniSnuli pirebi

mogvianebiT amovicani da rogorc

gavarkvie, isini iyvnen arCil gagniZe

da nikoloz revaziSvili. ar-

Cil gagniZem Cem Sesaxeb hkiTxa

danarCenebs da Semdeg mouwoda,

rom swrafad Cavesvi avtomanqana-

Si da wavsuliyaviT, rac me gavakeTe

kidec.

kiTxva:

wina gamokiTxvis dros Tqven

ganmartavT, rom rodesac gadakve-

TeT aragvis xidi da fexiT miemarTebodiT

q. Tbilisis mimarTulebiT,

Tqven wamogewiaT vercxlisferi

avtomanqana, saidanac

gadmovida eqvsi piri da TqvenTan

erTad myof qaTamaZes dauwyo cema.

amis gamo, Tqven giorgi SaqaraSvili,

vaxtang axvlediani da dijei

koko gaiqeciT ukan xidis mimarTulebiT

da moSorebiT xidze

gaCerdiT, saidanac xedavdiT. Tu

rogor cemdnen manqanidan gadmosuli

pirebi qaTamaZes, xolo dRes

Tqven aRniSneT, rom konstantine

RibraZe, nika Jvanias mxridan rkinis

xelketis Cartymis Semdgom,

gaiqca saavtomobilo gzaze Tbilisis

mimarTulebiT da Tqven mxares

ar wamosula, rasac Tavad konstantine

RibraZec adasurebs

gamokiTxvisas da ganmartavs, rom

Tavdasxmis dawyebisTanave mas erTerTma

Tavdamsxmelma miayena dartyma,

ris Semdegac gaiqca aragvis

xidis sawinaaRmdego mimarTulebiT

avtomanqanis saval gzaze, gaaCera

taqsi da datova SemTxvevis adgili.

gTxovT, ganmartoT, ratom

miuTiTeT wina gamokiTxvis dros,

rom dijei koko iyo TqvenTan,

roca scemdnen qaTamaZes?

pasuxi:

kiTxvaze gipasuxebT, rom Cemi

wina gamokiTxvis dros bolomde

gaanalizebuli ar mqonda bevri

garemoeba, aseve viyavi stresul

mdgomareobaSi da miWirda Zalian

bevri momxdari faqtis detalurad

gaxseneba. amJamad gavixsene

momxdaris detalebi da rogorc

zemoT mogaxseneT, mas Semdgom,

roca konstantine RibraZes „mersedesidan”

gadmosulma nika Jvaniam

daartya mis xelT arsebuli

rkinis mogrZo formis xelketi, is

gaiqca saavtomobilo gzaze Tbilisis

mimarTulebiT da Semdgom ve-

Rar davinaxe, Tu sad an riTi wavida,

radgan me gaviqeci xidis mimarTulebiT

giorgi SaqaraSvilTan

da vaxtang axvledianTan erTad.

kiTxva:

Tqvens gamokiTxvaSi ganmartavT,

rom meore avtomanqanis mosvlis

Semdeg, gaqcevisas, jer gadairbineT

xidi, ra drosac giorgi

SaqaraSvili garboda win, mas mihyveboda

vaxtang axvlediani da

Semdeg garbodiT Tqven. gTxovT,

gvipasuxoT, dainaxeT Tu ara, sad

iyo am dros qaTamaZe? sad iyvnen

Tavdamsxmelebi? ramdeni Tavdamsxmeli

gamogekidaT? mogdevnen Tu

ara isini xidze? ra manZiliT

iyvnen isini daSorebulebi Tqvengan?

giyvirodnen Tu ara an moiTxovdnen

Tu ara Tqvengan rames?

pasuxi:

im momentSi, rodesac gaCerda

avtomanqana „toiota qamri”, me

vimyofebodi giorgi SaqaraSvilTan,

vaxtang axvledianTan da giorgi

qaTamaZesTan erTad, avtosamrecxaosTan,

moxreSil teritoriaze,

ra drosac manqanis gaCerebisTanave,

Cven yvelani, maT Soris,

giorgi qaTamaZec, gaviqeciT aragvis

xidis mimarTulebiT, aragvis

xidis gadarbenis gzebis gamyofi

gazonisa da sapirispiro gzaze gadasvlis

dros. me giorgi qaTamaZe

aRar daminaxavs da ar vici, manqaniT

mosuli pirebidan Tu zustad

ramdeni adamiani mogvdevda, magram

manqanis gaCerebis momentSi, sanam

gaviqceodiT, davinaxe, rom manqanidan

gadmosuli eqvsive pirovneba

gamoiqca Cveni mimarTulebiT.

manqanidan gadmosuli pirebi

Cven xidzec mogvdevdnen, radgan

maTi yvirilisa da ginebis xma mesmoda,

romlebic Cven mogvdevdnen,

savaraudod, 20-30 metriT ukan.

kiTxva:

rogorc Tqven ganmartavT,

rodesac gadairbineT dasavleTis

mimarTulebis avtobani, giorgi

SaqaraSvilma da vaxtang axvledianma

Cauxvies marjvena mxares, xidis

qveS gamaval gzaze, xolo

Tqven pirdapir gaiqeciT Senobis

mimarTulebiT, gaxvediT Senobis

ukan da gadaxtiT buCqebSi. gTxovT

gvipasuxoT, ramden xans da ra TanmimdevrobiT

garbodiT xidze, vidre

gadaxvidodiT dasavleTis mimarTulebis

avtobanis mxares?

aseve gTxovT ganmartoT, dasavleTis

mimarTulebis avtobanis

mxares gadaxvediT xidis dasrulebis

Semdeg, Tu manamde?

ra TanmimdevrobiT garbodiT

Tqven, giorgi SaqaraSvili da vaxtang

axvlediani, rodesac daiwyeT

xididan dasavleTis mimarTulebis

avtobanis mxares gadasvla?

Tqven win daaxloebiT ra man-

Zilze da ra TanmimdevrobiT garbodnen

giorgi SaqaraSvili da vaxtang

axvlediani? sad iyo am dros

giorgi qaTamaZe? gadmoyvnen Tu

ara Tavdamsxmelebi avtobanis meore

mxares, dadebiT SemTxvevaSi

ramdeni?

da SegiZliaT Tu ara maTi aRwera?

pasuxi: saerTo jamSi, orive

samoZrao zolSi aRniSnul xidze

gavrbodiT daaxloebiT 1 an 1,5

wuTis ganmavlobaSi, ra drosac

Cemgan daaxloebiT aTi metriT win

garboda vaxtang axvlediani da

daaxloebiT oci metriT win garboda

giorgi SaqaraSvili. xidis

dasrulebis Semdgom amave TanmimdevrobiT

gadavediT dasavleTis

mimarTulebis avtobanis mxares,

ris Semdegac giorgi SaqaraSvilma

da vaxtang axvledianma centraluri

saavtomobilo gzidan

Cauxvies marjvena mxares, meorexarisxovan

gzaze, xolo me davimale

feradi Senobis ukan, saidanac davinaxe,

rom Cveni mdevrebidan sami,

rogorc ukve mogaxseneT, vaxtang

Ciqovani, akaki qvriviSvili da zezva

xomasuriZe Carbodnen im mimarTulebiT,

saiTac gaiqcnen giorgi

SaqaraSvili da vaxtang axvlediani.

swored aRniSnulma samma

pirma mipova feradi Senobis ukan,

Sesabamisad isini mogvdevdnen

xidzec da xidis Semdgomac,

kiTxva: 2020 wlis 19 ivnisis

gamokiTxvisas Tqven ganmartavT,

rom rodesac giorgi SaqaraSvilma

da vaxtang axvledianma Cauxvies

marjvena mxares xidis qveS gamaval

gzaze, Tqven pirdapir gaiqeciT

Senobis mimarTulebiT, gaxvediT

Senobis ukan da gadaxtiT buCqeb-

Si. 2020 wlis 23 ivnisis gamokiTxvaSi

ki ganmartavT rom Tqven dainaxeT,

rogor garbodnen giorgi

SaqaraSvili da vaxtang axvlediani

erTi mimarTulebiT. centralur

gzaze giorgi SaqaraSvili garboda

pirveli. jer romelma gadauxvia

marjvena mxares ar gaxsovT,

orive maTgani garboda xidis qveda

mxaris mimarTulebiT, Tumca

centraluri saavtomobilo gzidan

gadasvlis Semdgom ufro win

romeli garboda, ver daakonkreteT

da aseve ganmarteT, rom veRar

dainaxeT, Semdeg ra mimarTulebiT

ganagrZes sirbili,

radgan Tqvenc gadaxvediT gzidan

da maTgan gansxvavebiT gzis marjvena

mxares maTi mimarTulebiT

ar gaiqeciT. am momentSi maT misdevda

Tu ara vinme, ar daginaxavT,

Tumca iqve ganmartavT, rom giorgi

SaqaraSvili da vaxtang axvlediani

bolos dainaxeT Tqvengan

daaxloebiT 50 metris moSorebiT.

isini am dros moZraobdnen asfaltian

gzaze da arc erT maTgans

romelime mxares gadaxveuli ar

qonda, amavdroulad, Tqven zemoT

kidev erTxel daazusteT aRniSnuli

garemoebebi da miuTiTeT, rom

dainaxeT, ra TanmimdevrobiT da

mimarTulebiT garbodnen giorgi

SaqaraSvili da vaxtang axvlediani.

gTxovT, sabolood daazustoT,

rogor ganviTarda aRniSnuli movlenebi?

gTxovT upasuxoT, rodesac

giorgi SaqaraSvilma da vaxtang

axvledianma Cauxvies marjvena

mxares xidis qveS gamaval gzaze,

ra TanmimdevrobiT garbodnen

isini da ra mimarTulebiT? misdevda

maT Tu ara vinme da dadebiT

SemTxvevaSi, SegiZliaT Tu ara

maTi aRwera? aseve gTxovT ganmartoT,

rodesac Tqven gaiqeciT Senobis

mimarTulebiT, vidre gaxvediT

ukan da gadaxtiT buCqebSi,

gamogekidaT Tu ara vinme? ramden

xans iyaviT damaluli Senobis ukan

buCqebSi? da gesmodaT Tu ara am

dros raime xmebi?

pasuxi:

rogorc mogaxseneT, Cemi wina

gamokiTxvis dros, rogorc

araerTxel aRvniSne, viyavi stresul

mdgomareobaSi da kargad ver

valagebdi da vixsenebdi bevr

faqts, Tumca amJamad me ukeTesad

gavaanalize momxdari, gavixsene

bevri detali da mogaxsenebT, rom

rodesac giorgi SaqaraSvilma da

vaxtang axvledianma Cauxvies marjvena

mxares xidis qveS gamaval

gzaze, win garboda giorgi SaqaraSvili

da mis ukan garboda vaxtang

axvlediani. am momentSi maT aravin

misdevda. amave dros, me Sevedi feradi

Senobis ukan, sadac iyo sibnele

da myisierad Cavvardi ormos

msgavss dablobze, saidanac maSinve

amovedi da gamovixede gzaze, da am

momentSi davinaxe, swrafi sirbiliT

yviriliTa da ginebiT meorad

saavtomobilo gzaze Carbodnen

„qamridan” gadmosuli Cveni

mdevrebidan sami pirovneba, rogorc

ukve aRvniSne: vaxtang Ciqovani,

akaki qvriviSvili da zezva

xomasuriZe, ris Semdegac me Sevecade

davmaluliyavi, Cavvardi buCqnarSi

da gaviWede, sadac viyavi 7-

8 wuTis ganmavlobaSi. aqve mogaxsenebT,

rom me buCqebSi Sevardnis

Semdgom Tavdapirvelad mesmoda

yvirili, xolo Semdgom es xmebi

aRar ismoda da centralur saavtomobilo

gzidan mesmoda mxolod

avtomobilebis moZraobis

xmauri. Cemi samalavi adgilis aRmoCenamde

ramdenime wamiT adre

kvlav momesma xmebi, romelic

mogviwodebda, rom gamovsuliyaviT

da arafers dagviSavebdnen. isini

modiodnen qvemodan meoradi

saavtomobilo gzis mxridan da

TandaTan miaxlovdebodnen me.

kiTxva:

2020 wlis 19 ivnisis gamokiTxvaSi

ganmartavT, rom rodesac buCqebSi

iyaviT Cavardnili, mogiaxlovdaT

sami biWi, romlebsac uTxariT,

rom arafer SuaSi ar iyaviT,

CxubSi monawileoba ar migiRiaT da

mxolod aSvelebdiT. erT-erTma am

samidan daadastura Cxubis dros

Tqveni neitraluri moqmedeba, ris

Semdegac giTxres, rom CamjdariyaviT

manqanaSi. aqve ganmartavT,

rom rodesac buCqebidan amoxvediT,

sam naxseneb biWs kidev daemata

sami, sul, saerTo jamSi, manqanaSi

CasxediT Svidi piri. imave

gamokiTxvaSi kiTxvebze pasuxis gacemisas

Tqven ganmartavT, rom

rodesac sam biWs Tqven uxsnidiT,

rom arafer SuaSi ar xarT, movida

Tavdamsxmelebis manqana, ris Semdegac

wagiyvanes TbilisSi. 2020

wlis 21 ivnisis gamokiTxvaSi ganmartavT,

rom buCqebSi gipovaT

eqvsma pirma, xolo 2020 wlis 23

ivnisis gamokiTxvaSi ganmartavT,

rom rodesac CajeqiT manqanaSi,

TqvenTan erTad myof sam pirs

kidev daemata sami piri, romlebic

aseve Casxdnen imave manqanaSi. aRniSnuli

garemoebebi Tqven zemoTac

aRwereT detalurad da ganmarteT,

rom Tqven samalavidan gamogiyvanaT

samma pirovnebam, Semdgom

movida mZRoli da Semdgom

kidev ori pirovneba. gTxovT, sabolood

daazustoT, rogor ganvi-

Tarda aRniSnuli movlenebi?

pasuxi:

rogorc ukve vTqvi, Cemi wina

gamokiTxvebis dros me viyavi stresul

mdgomareobaSi, rac aRvniSne

araerTxel da kargad ver

valagebdi da vixsenebdi bevr

faqts, Tumca amJamad me ukeTesad

gavaanalize momxdari, gavixsene

bevri detali da mogaxsenebT, rom

detalurad gavixsene aRniSnuli

viTareba da kargad maxsovs, rom im

dros, rodesac buCqebSi vimalebodi,

CemTan Tavdapirvelad movida

sami pirovneba, kerZod aRniSnuli

sami pirovneba movida Senobis ukan,

sadac me daminaxes da aSkaraa, rom

isini Cven gveZebdnen da mipoves me.

rogorc maxsovs, samive maTganma

momiwoda, rom amovsuliyavi da

mivsuliyavi maTTan, romlebic

amosvlis Semdgom vnaxe, rom iyvnen

akaki qvriviSvili, zezva xomasuriZe

da vaxtang Ciqovani. rodesac

buCqebidan amovedi da akaki qvriviSvils,

zezva xomasuriZes da vaxtang

Ciqovans vuTxari, rom me CxubSi

monawileoba ar mimiRia, mxolod

vaSvelebdi, am saubrisas

gzis piras gaCerda „toiota qamri”

da manqanidan gadmovida mZRoli

vasil maxaraZe, ra drosac davinaxe,

rom qvemodan anu meoradi

saavtomobilo gzidan, xidis qveS

arsebuli sivrcidan, amovida 2

pirovneba, romelic manamde am gzaze

Carbenili ar daminaxavs. ris Semdgomac

qvemodan amosulma erTerTma

pirma danarCens Cemze hki-

Txa, Tu vin viyavi da amis Semdeg

mkacri toniT miTxres, rom Cavmjdariyavi

maTTan erTad avtomanqanaSi.

aRniSnulis Semdgom erTerTma

maTganma gadamxvia xeli da

Camsva avtomobilSi. me maTTvis winaaRmdegoba

ar gamiwevia da aRniSnuls

azric ar hqonda. kerZod, imis

gamo, rom davinaxe, rogor scemdnen

giorgi qaTamaZes, Semdgom

jer erTi avtomobilidan, Semdgom

aRniSnuli meore avtomobilidan

gadmosulebi rogor mogvdevdnen

da gvaginebdnen, gvemuqrebodnen

ZaladobiT, viyavi Zalian SeSinebuli.

amasTan, me vxvdebodi, rom

maTi agresiuli toni, mimarTuli

iyo iqiTken, rom daveSinebine da

davmorCilebodi maT moTxovnebs.

es ar iyo Txovna an SeTavazeba avtomobilSi

Cajdomaze, es iyo agresiuli

toniT miTiTeba, romelic

aucileblad unda Semesrulebina,

winaaRmdeg SemTxvevaSi, Cemze

ganxorcieldeboda Zaladoba, amavdroulad,

aRniSnuli pirebi Cemze

raodenobrivadac metni da fizikuradac

ufro Zlierebi iyvnen,

Sesabamisad, maTTan dapirispirebas

azri ar hqonda da mZime Sedegi mohyveboda,

aseve maTi garideba msurda

iqaurobidan, Cavjeqi manqana-

Si.

gagrZeleba 30-e gv.

N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.

3


àmomrCeveli Camoyalibda, rom

qarTul realobaSi mxolod

nene injgia

arCevnebis TariRebi icvleba, da-

591 71 39 98

pirebebi da politikosebi _ ara.

ukve 30 welia, qarTuli politika

mojadoebul wreze trialebs. ras sTavazoben politikuri

partiebi amomrCevels Zvelisgan gansxvavebuls? _ jerjero-

biT, verc verafers. rogori politikuri mocemulobis winaSe

vdgavarT? mouwevs Tu ara amomrCevels Sav-TeTri arCevanis

gakeTeba? ra rols TamaSobs politikur procesebSi eqsprez-

identi mixeil saakaSvili?

am da sxva mniSvnelovani Teme-

bis Sesaxeb „qronika+~ eqspert

levan alafiSvils esaubra:

_ baton levan, pirvel rigSi,

saubari daviwyoT winasaarCevno

kampaniis SefasebiT, _ ra tipis

kampania aqvT politikur partiebs?

ramdenad pasuxobs amomrCev-

lis moTxovnebs maTi gzavnilebi?

_ samwuxaroa, rom SeiZleba es

Cems gemovnebaSi ar jdeba, magram

ufro swori iqneboda, es axali

Taobisgan mogvesmina. yovel SemTxvevaSi,

mainc vityvi, rom, samwuxarod,

21-e saukuneSi, jerjerobiT,

me-20 saukunis stilis saarCevno

kampanias vadevnebT Tvalyurs, rac

naklebad sainteresoa. 21-e saukunes

Tavisi siaxleebi da gansxvavebuloba

aqvs. samwuxaroa, rom

Zalian cota Cans amdagvari ram.

SesaZlebelia, es im mdgomareobi-

Tac iyos ganpirobebuli, rac

gazafxulidan xdeba, vgulisxmob

koronaviruss da es ar aris mxolod

saqarTvelos specifika.

ubralod, saqarTvelos SemTxveva-

Si globalur pandemias daemata is,

rom mTavrobis gadawyvetilebiT,

sadac politikuri oponentebi

solidarulebi iyvnen, yovel

SemTxvevaSi, gazafxulze iyo minimalisturi.

saerTo politikuri

gadawyvetilebiT, im gziT viareT,

romelmac Cveni ekonomika Zalian

cud dReSi Caagdo da aseTive perspeqtiva

gvelis. am pirobebSi,

bunebrivia, politikosebi winasaarCevnod

SeiZleba Zalianac mowadinebulebi

arian, rom gaimarjvon,

movidnen qveynis marTvis sadaveebTan,

magram iqve axsendebaT,

savaraudod, rom umZimesi pasuxismgeblobis

aReba mouwevT da Sesabamisad

cota frTxiloben kidec.

saxalisod rom vTqvaT, Zalian

undaT, magram eridebaT gamarjveba.

(icinis) Tan undaT, Tan ara gamarjveba,

imitom, rom is pasuxismgebloba,

romelic nebismier Zalas

elis calke aRebuli Tu sxvebTan

gamarjvebis SemTxvevaSi, praqtikulad,

xarakiris tolfasi unda

iyos, minimum, 1-2 weli. Sesabamisad,

ar vfiqrob, rom Cveni politikuri

gaerTianebebi, miT umetes,

sustad ganviTarebuli partiuli

sistemis pirobebSi, romelic Cven

gvaqvs, mzad iyos am masStabis pasuxismgeblobisTvis,

imitom rom aq

Zalian didia pasuxismgebloba, socialuri

mZime foni, ekonomika da

politika, Sesabamisad, es yvelaferi

gansazRvravs, ra Tqma unda,

uaxloes momavals, iseve rogorc

winasaarCevno kampanias.

_ Tqven aRniSneT, rom arian

gamonaklisi partiebi. romeli

partia igulisxmeT, „girCi”?

_ ara mxolod „girCi”, arian

axlebic, romlebic cdiloben

damkvidrebas da maTTvis programa

maqsimumi sulac ar aris mmar-

Tvelobis saTaveSi mosvla an erTpirovnuli

mmarTveloba. isini

mkvidrdebian politikur saWadrako

dafaze. cdiloben, arsebulisgan

gansxvavebulis Semotanas. rac

sxva demokratiis qveynebSi gav-

lilia, saqarTveloSi axla cdiloben

yvelafers. samwuxarod, axalma

Taobam, ivnisis Taobam, romelic

2015 wlidan, yoveli meore

wlis ivnisSi, Tavisi maRali pasuxismgeblobiTa

da solidarobiT

gvaxsenebda Tavs, konsolidacia,

politikuri ganacxadis gakeTebis

TvalsazrisiT, ver Tu ar SeZlo.

es maTi gadasawyvetia, me maT

mxolod vgulSematkivrob. mTeli

politikuri speqtri rom aviRoT,

yvelaze metad swored maT mosvlas

veli. yovel SemTxvevaSi, jer

ar gaakeTes es ganacxadi, anu axali

Taoba ar Semovida uSualod

politikur asparezze, amitom siaxleebic,

jerjerobiT, gadavadda.

arsebuli politikuri partiebi ki,

rogorc Cans, ar arian mzad, axal

Taobas an Cven, sazogadoebas siaxleebi

SegvTavazon.

_ Tqven axseneT axali Taoba.

sazogadoebaSic iyo amis molod-

ini, rom axali Taoba TviTon

wardgeboda amomrCevlis winaSe

erTiani ZalebiT, Tumca es axal-

gazrdebi, romlebmac 2015 wlidan

dRemde mniSvnelovan procesebSi

miiRes monawileoba, TiTqos

daifantnen sxvadasxva partiaSi.

Tqveni SefasebiT, ratom ver mox-

erxda maTi erToba?

_ am sakiTxze dRes gaSlilad

ar visaubreb, magram Cvens politikur

speqtrs udidesi pasuxismgebloba

eqneba am Taobis winaSe,

rac maT gaukeTes ivnisSi.. mets ar

vityvi, radgan aq Tavisi roli

iTamaSa rogorc mmarTvelma politikurma

Zalam, aseve zogzogierTma

politikurma gaerTianebam. maT

nebsiT Tu uneblieT (aq eWvs gamovTqvam

mxolod da mxolod. garkveuli

informaciebi msmenia, yovel

SemTxvevaSi, es asea) xeli Seuwyves

imas, rom mmarTveli politikuri

Zala ivnisis krizisis fonze

waugeblad gamosuliyo. saSualo

grZelvadian perspeqtivaSi

mTavrobam araferi daTmo. Sesabamisad,

is moTxovna, ratomac iyvnen

gamosulebi axalgazrdebi, riTac

isini samSoblos icavdnen rusi okupantisgan,

romelic Caskupebuli

iyo umaRlesi warmomadgenlobiTi

organos pirveli piris savarZel-

Si, legitimuri iyo. maTi es protesti

iyo swori, wrfeli, Zalian

pasuxismgebliani, Tumca maTi politikuri

gamoucdelobiT orive

mxarem isargebla da miviReT is,

rac gvaqvs. samwuxarod, me SeiZleba

Cemi Svilebis TaobisTvis momiwios

imis axsna, Tu ra moxda da

rogor gamoiyenes isini.

_ „qarTuli ocnebis” saarCevno

kampania, TiTqos Zalian mSvid

tempSi mimdinareobs da sloganic

aqvT: „erTad saqarTvelos warmatebisTvis”.

ramdenad gamoadge-

baT maT pandemiasTan brZolis

warmatebuli Sedegebi da iqneba

Tu ara bolomde mokavSire es

virusi maT sasargeblod?

_ pirvel rigSi, unda aRvniSnoT,

rom Zalian didi gulubryviloba

iqneba, Tu vinme fiqrobs,

rom koronavirusis damarcxeba

meti ar unda gavafuWoT, vidre

Cven SegviZlia. amaze Zalian mwared

vagebT pasuxs, imitom rom SeiZleba,

am yvelafers Cveni saxelmwifo

Seewiros. mmarTveli politikur

ZalisTvis, garda am ori faqtorisa,

im mZime uaxloesi momavali periodis

perspeqtivis gaTvaliswinebiT,

mis interesSi unda Sediodes,

rom marto ar iyvnen mmarTvelobis

sadaveebTan da sxvasac gaunawilon

sakuTari pasuxismgebloba.

winaaRmdeg SemTxvevaSi, Zalian mZime

samoqalaqo pasuxismgeblobisa

da personaluri Tavdasxmebis obieqtebi

SeiZleba gaxdnen sazogadoebis

mxridan mZime socialuri

fonis gamo. saqarTveloSi saSualo

fena ar arsebobs, arian Ratakebi

da zegamdidrebulebi, Sesabamisad.

arada, saSualo fena am

stabilurobas uzrunvelyofs.

nebismieri aseTi ganviTareba, erTpartiuli

mmarTvelobis pirobeb-

Si, SeiZleba Zalian mkacri iyos,

rac saqarTvelos istoriaSi ar

yofila socialuri buntis safuZveli,

riTac, saboloo jamSi, yvelaze

metad isargeblebs ruseTi

da ara mmarTveli politikuri

Zala an romelime sazogadoebrivi

Tu samoqalaqo jgufi, romelic am

protestSi iqneba CarTuli.

_ 2012 wlidan dRemde gvesmis,

rom gvyavs uniaTo mTavroba da

konkretuli faqtebic mohyavT

oponentebs. Tu es asea, maSin ratom

ar aris es uniaToba opoziciuri

speqtris mokavSire, vTq-

vaT, am arCevnebze? ratom ver

iyenebs xelisuflebis uniaTobas

opoziciuri speqtri?

_ Tu gaviTvaliswinebT Cveni

politikuri partiebis sistemur

sisustes, gamosacnobi xdeba. ubralod,

Cveni amomrCeveli am cudi

mocemulobis gaTvaliswinebiT

akeTebs personalizirebulsa da

marginalur arCevans. Sesabamisad,

mandats aZlevs im susts, romelic

im momentSi, ratomRac, amomrCevlisTvis

sxvaze ukeTesi aRmoCndeba.

Sesabamisad, es susti da unia-

To rom mova xelisuflebaSi, is ga-

Zlierdeba Zalauflebis berketebiT,

anu bunebrivad Zlieri ki ar

aris, Zalaufleba mieca da amitom

gaZlierda. Zalaufleba yvela saxlevan

alafiSvili:

`XXI saukuneSi

XX saukunis

stilis

saarCevno

kampanias

vadevnebT

Tvalyurs~

erT konkretul saxelmwifoSi SesaZlebelia.

Zalian suleli unda

iyos, vinme Tu amas fiqrobs saqarTveloSi,

rom damarcxdes kroonavirusi.

sabWoTa kavSirze magari

rkinis sazRvari rom SemovartyaT,

isic ki ver uSvelis. Teoriulad

rom warmovidginoT, amdagvari,

zeavtoritaruli, aseT pirobebSic

ki imaze fiqri da msjeloba, rom

saqarTvelom daamarcxa korona,

aris Zalian didi gulubryviloba

da sisulele. ar vfiqrob, rom mxolod

koronavirusis imedzea

mmarTveli Zala, virusTan erTad

susti politikuri Zalebis imedic

aqvs da am SemTxvevaSi es ori

faqtori aris misi warmatebis mTavari

indikatori. martivad rom

avxsnaT: me da Tqven vejibrebiT

erTmaneTs raRac sportSi, me var

susti da Cemi sisustiT davmarcxdi,

ver gagiwieT winaaRmdegoba.

TqvenTvis sasargeblo Sedegi ki

dadgeba, magram es imas ar niSnavs,

rom Zlieri xarT. me wavage da imitom

moigeT Tqven, imitom dadga

TqvenTvis sasargeblo Sedegi. ai,

es aris axla zustad. weRan vaxsene,

rom me-20 saukunis stiliT midis

saarCevno kampania. ver veRirseT

erTxel da samudamod demokratiuli,

Zlieri partiuli sistemis,

sazogadoebis nebis gamomxatvel

garemos. magram ras vizamT, axali

Taobis imedad unda viyoT, imaze

`rac Seexeba mixeil saakaSvils, masTan

dakavSirebiT komentari CemTvis mZimea.

pirveli imitom, rom Cemi saxelmwifos

meTaurma uari Tqva im saxelmwifos

moqalaqeobaze, romlis pirveli piric

gaxldaT. mixeil saakaSvilma Zalian kargad

icoda rasac akeTebda, icoda kanonmdebloba

da a. S. es misi gadawyvetileba iyo. garda

imisa, rom is saqarTvelos moqalaqe ar aris,

am periodSi gamamtyunebeli ganaCenebic dadga

da mas msjavrdebulis statusic aqvs. Zalian

elementaruli codnaa saWiro imis

dasaskvnelad, rom saqarTvelos politikur

cxovrebaSi misi dabruneba ararealuria, amaze

msjelobac ki araseriozulia~

4 N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.


arsebuli xelisufleba unda Seicvalos~

elmwifoSi Zlieria, Cvenia Zalaufleba

ki xalxia. 11 wlis bavSvs

rom misce Zalaufleba, isic Zlieri

iqneba, Tu raime kanonze xelmoweris

uflebas mivcemT.

_ garda amisa, aris Tu ara imis

saSiSroeba, rom polarizebuli

iyos garemo da amomrCevels Sav-

TeTrs Soris mouwios arCevanis

gakeTeba? amis polarizebas uwyobs

Tu ara xels mixeil saakaS-

vili Tavisi gancxadebebiT? ra

roli aqvs saakaSvils polarize-

bis procesSi?

_ realurad, Zalian didi xania,

sxvadasxva intensivobiT, minimum,

10 welia, meti Tu ara, TeTri da

Savia qarTuli politika. sxva ar

aris! ubralod, ar aris! amis ganmapirobebeli

Cven varT, samoqalaqo

pasuxismgeblobis naklebobaa

sazogadoebaSi, aqtiuri moqalaqe

naklebia. amas Tavisi

pirobebi aqvs, magram me vambob,

faqtebi racaa, xolo ratom aris,

amazec SegviZlia vimsjeloT, magaliTad

socialur, politikur,

kulturul gamocdilebaze da a.

S., magram faqtia: Cven ar varT aqtiurebi,

raRac periodSi avfeTqdebiT

da Sesabamisad mere vipoviT

viRac Zliers, CamovkidebT yvelafers

mas, Sen xar zeadamiani,

miSa xar, biZina, zviadi Tu WiWiko,

ar aqvs mniSvneloba. mere aRmova-

CenT, rom es WiWiko ar yofila,

vinc CemTan mova saxlSi da Cem magivrad

Cems gasakeTebels gamikeTebs.

mere viwyebT WiWikoze Zlieri

abesalomis Zebnas, vipoviT, gana

ver vipoviT. davaWidebT WiWikos,

davamarcxebinebT da igive wreze

wavalT. zviadidan moyolebuli,

80-wliani periodiT plus-minusiT

amas vadevnebT Tval-yurs. aseTi

sazogadoeba, bunebrivia, araracionalur

gadawyvetilebebs iRebs,

ara davuSvaT ekonomikuri faqtorebis

SemoTavazebebis gamo,

aramed erTi vaWidavo meoresTan.

amave konteqstSi unda gavixseno

2012 wlis arCevnebis Semdgom maleve

dapirispireba, „qarTuli ocnebis”

amomrCevlebi rogori radikalurebi

iyvnen. maSin Cveni strategiuli

partniori, aseve megobari

qveynis maRali rangis polo-

`faqtia: Cven ar varT aqtiurebi, raRac

periodSi avfeTqdebiT da Sesabamisad mere

vipoviT viRac Zliers, CamovkidebT yvelafers

mas, Sen xar zeadamiani, miSa xar, biZina,

zviadi Tu WiWiko, ar aqvs mniSvneloba. mere

aRmovaCenT, rom es WiWiko ar yofila, vinc

CemTan mova saxlSi da Cem magivrad Cems

gasakeTebels gamikeTebs. mere viwyebT WiWikoze

Zlieri abesalomis Zebnas, vipoviT, gana ver

vipoviT. davaWidebT WiWikos, davamarcxebinebT

da igive wreze wavalT. zviadidan

moyolebuli, 80-wliani periodiT plus-

minusiT amas vadevnebT Tval-yurs~

neli politikosi, radoslav sikorski

iyo CvenTan, sakmaod woniani

politikosi gaxldaT da dResac

asea. man erTi Zalian kargi ram

Tqva: „Tqven, qarTvelebs, ukve

gqondaT Tqveni kavkasiuri vendeta.

daasruleT. reformebs mixedeT”,

_ saxelmwifo aaSeneT, nu xocavT

erTmaneTs, geyoT da sxva

rames mixedeTo. es aris samoqalaqo

kulturis problema da aq, albaT,

mentaluri cvlileba dagvWirdeba.

axali, e. w. ivnisis Taoba,

romelic jer statistikurad ver

gaformda, rogorc amomrCeveli,

is unda cvlides politikur ganwyobebs,

magram isini ukve mosulebi

arian, ubralod Cven da Cveni

wina Taoba statistikurad ufro

metni varT. Tuki isini dasavluri,

demokratiuli principiT gaakeTeben

arCevans, ukeTes SemTxvevaSi 2-

3% SeiZleba iyos eleqtoraluri

TvalsazrisiT da isic daikargeba.

samagierod, „qarTul ocnebas”, „nacionalur

moZraobas”, visac moWidaveebi

da kunTmagrebi enatreba,

sisxli visac enatreba da am yvelafers

ubnidan gamosulebi mere

taSs ukraven, am Widaobis fonze es

xmebi daikargeba. normluri, racinaluri

demokratia Cven mierve

nadgureba, Tumca es didxans ar

gagrZeldeba. ar gvyofnis goniereba,

rom Cvenve SevuwyoT xeli axal

Taobas, gavuziaroT Cveni gamocdileba

da vuTxraT, ra Secdomebi

davuSviT. piriqiT, saerTod ar vugdebT

yurs. metic: yvelaze kritikul

momentSi cudad gamoviyeneT

es Taoba da amaze yvelani varT pasuxismgebelni

da pirvel rigSi, ra

Tqma unda, politikosebi.

_ batono levan, ufro konkre-

tulad minda ganvixiloT saakaS-

vilis Tema. ra mizans emsaxureba,

ramdenad sworia misi strategia?

erT dRes gveubneba, rom is ar

aris qarTuli politikiT dainteresebuli,

meore dRes ki premier-ministobis

kandidatad gvev-

lineba. Tqven ra STabeWdilebebi

grCebaT am nawilSi?

_ 2012 wlidan moyolebuli,

mmarTveli politikuri Zalisa da

misi mokavSireebis umTavresi sakiTxi

ara qveynis marTva, aramed

yofili xelisuflebis ganadgureba

iyo. araerTi gacxadeba mogvismenia

yvela umaRlesi politikuri

donidan. es aris Cveni seni. nacvlad

imisa, rom saarCevnod demokratiul

procesSi, damarcxebuli Segueboda

am azrs da gamarjvebuls

qveynisTvis miexeda da ara oponentTan

brZolaze efiqra, rva weli

Sealia am yvelafers. istorias Tu

gadavxedavT, es erTi konkretuli

partia xuT nawilad daiSala, magram

mmarTvelma politikurma Zalam

ver SeZlo maTi politikuri arenidan

CamoSoreba. Tumca faqtia,

rom amis mcdelobebi hqondaT. mmarTveli

politikuri Zalis umTavresi

Secdoma is iyo, rom partias,

romelsac hyavs amomrCeveli, mas-

Tan am tipis politikur brZolas

azri ar aqvs, maT daaviwydaT sxva

partiebis amomrCevlebi. dRemde

arseboben zviad gamsaxurdias momxreebi.

mixeil saakaSvili da misi

mxardamWerebi, ratom arian Senar-

Cunebulebi? anu sad aris problema?

sazogadoebaSia problema da

ara konkretul politikur Zala-

Si. logikurad da normalurad moazrovne

politikosma es daskvna

unda gaakeTos da faqtad unda

aRiqvas. es aris faqti sazogadoebisgan

gamomdinare. rac Seexeba mixeil

saakaSvils, masTan dakavSirebiT

komentari CemTvis mZimea. pirveli

imitom, rom Cemi saxelmwifos

meTaurma uari Tqva im saxelmwifos

moqalaqeobaze, romlis pirveli piric

gaxldaT. mixeil saakaSvilma

Zalian kargad icoda rasac akeTebda,

icoda kanonmdebloba da a. S. es

misi gadawyvetileba iyo. garda imisa,

rom is saqarTvelos moqalaqe

ar aris, am periodSi gamamtyunebeli

ganaCenebic dadga da mas msjavrdebulis

statusic aqvs. Zalian

elementaruli codnaa saWiro imis

dasaskvnelad, rom saqarTvelos

politikur cxovrebaSi misi dabruneba

ararealuria, amaze msjelobac

ki araseriozulia. Sesabamisad,

krizisi, rac mimdinareobs partiaSi

da ara eleqtoratSi, mis fonze

saWiro gaxda mixeil saakaSvilis

mier gancxadebebis gakeTeba, ara

imisTvis, rom marTla apirebs Camosvlas,

aramed SenaCundes is mocemuloba,

rac partias aqvs krizisis

fonze.

_ gansxvavebuli cifrebi fiq-

sirdeba kvlevebSi. TqvenTvis

romeli ufro asaxavs realobas?

aseve am kvlevebis mixedviT procentulad

sakmaod bevria gadau-

wyveteli amomrCeveli. vis aqvs

imis resursi, rom gadauwyveteli

amomrCevlis xma miiRos?

_ kvlevebi arsebiTad igive saxis

iyo 2003, 2011-2012 wlebSi, magram

qarTveli amomrCeveli imaSi

namdvilad iyo Camoyalibebuli,

rom arsebuli xelisufleba unda

Secvliliyo. ase iyo 2003 wels,

qarTveli amomrCeveli Camoyalibebuli

iyo, rom SevardnaZe aRar

iqneboda, maSindel kvlevebSi maRali

maCvenebeli iyo gadauwyveteli

amomrCeveli; 2011-2012 wlebSi

analogiuri situacia iyo. Sesabamisad,

qarTvelma amomrCevelma im-

Jamindel xelisuflebas uTxra:

ori saparlamento vada Senc geyofao.

axlac zustad ori saparlamento

vada gauvida „qarTul ocnebas”,

Sesabamisad, erTpirovnul mmarTvelobas

qarTveli amomrCeveli

maT ar dautovebs. amomrCeveli

axlac Camoyalibebulia, rom arsebuli

unda Seicvalos. vin gaimarjvebs

ki ara, vin aRar iqneba erTpirovnuli

mmarTveli. ase iyo 2003

welsac. aqve davamateb, rom saku-

Tari Secdomebi xSirad gavixsenoT,

radgan Tuki raime kargad gamogvdis,

es Secdomebis gameorebaa.

yvelani codvilebi varT, magram

unda SegveZlos axali furclidan

dawyeba da Secdomebis gamosworeba,

rac xels Seuwyobs saxelmwifos

ganviTarebas. momavali Taoba

aq aris da mets aRar moiTmens.

iago xviCia: `Cemi mTavari politikuri mizani aris sabWoTa

marTlmsajulebis daSla da axali qarTuli sistemis awyoba~

xviCa mamulaZe

aRniSnuli Temebis Sesaxeb „qronika+~

„girCis” baTumis maJoritari deputatobis

kandidat iago xviCias esaubra:

_ gamarjoba, iago, ratom gadawyviteT

baTumis maJoritaroba?

_ baTumSi maJoritaroba imitom gadavwyvite,

rom axali Tanamoazreebisa da megobrebis

SeZenis yvelaze met Sanss am qalaqSi

vxedav. aseve saparlamento arCevnebis

paralelurad aWaraSi uzenaesi sabWos

arCevnebia da „girCi” am arCevnebSi erT mandats

imsaxurebs. Cemi amocanaa, yvelaferi

gavakeTo aWaraSi, raTa damsaxurebuli

erTi mandati miviRoT.

_ SegiZliaT gviTxraT is problemebi,

rac aWaris regions awuxebs?

_ aWaras igive awuxebs, rac danarCen saqarTvelos

da es, Cemi azriT, Tavisuflebis

naklebobaa. saxelmwifo adamianebs arTmevs

Tavisuflebas da gasaqans ar aZlevs maT. es

ratom gadawyvita aWaris maJoritaroba iago

xviCiam? ra gegmebi aqvs aWaraSi mas da ras hpird-

eba igi baTumelebs?

N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.

problema aWaraSic da samegreloSic identuria,

SeiZleba maT gansxvavebuli gamovlinebebi

aqvT, magram problemas saerTo

sawyisi aqvs _ saxelmwifo adamianebs uyurebs,

rogorc cxvrebs da ara Tavisufal

subieqtebs. „girCs” amis Secvla yvelgan

gvinda.

_ Tqveni arCevis SemTxvevaSi ras gaa-

keTebT baTumelebisTvis, ras hpirdebiT

maT?

_ baTumeli ar var, amitom mgonia, rom

maJoritaruli arCevnebis mogebis naklebi

Sansi maqvs, magram, rogorc giTxariT,

CemTvis mogeba sxva ramea, _ proporciuli

wesiT erTi adamianis Seyvana aWaris uzenaes

sabWoSi, rasac proporciuli xmebis 5%

sWirdeba. Tu amdenive xma miviReT saparlamento

proporciul arCevnebze, me Tavs damarcxebulad

ar CavTvli. nebismier SemTxvevaSi

igives gavagrZeleb, rasac aqamde vakeTebdi,

_ meti TavisuflebisTvis brZolas.

Tumca Cemi mTavari politikuri mizani

aris sabWoTa marTlmsajulebis daSla

da axali qarTuli sistemis awyoba. rac

ufro meti ndoba meqneba adamianebis, miT

met Zalas SeviZen amis misaRwevad. realurad,

amaSi vTxov Tanadgomasa da mxardaWeras

xalxs.

_ vis moiazrebT aWaraSi yvelaze Zli-

er konkurentad?

_ aWaraSi Cemi konkurenti aris is faqti,

rom adamianebi ar gvicnoben, sxva vinme

varT da sxva vinme vgonivarT. amitom Cemi

amocanaa, realuri „girCi” gavacno adamianebs.

bevri velaparako imaze, Tu ra gvinda

sinamdvileSi da ratomaa kargi yvelasTvis

is, rac „girCs” unda, rom moxdes

am qveyanaSi.

_ rogor fiqrobT, ra Sansebi gaqvT

aWaraSi?

_ rogorc giTxariT, Cemi mizani aWaraSi

axali xalxis gacnoba, megobrebis SeZena da

aWaris uzenaes sabWoSi erTi adamianis Seyvanaa,

anu 5%-is miReba proporciul

arCevnebze. es advili ambavi ar gaxlavT,

magram mjera, rom amis realuri Sansi arsebobs,

radgan Cvens mondomebasTan erTad

SesaniSnavi kandidati gvyavs siis pirvel

nomrad aWaris uzenaes sabWoSi _ qalbatoni

lali anTiZe.

5


`surkovma `qarTul ocnebas~

saqarTveloSi male politiku-

Sorena marsagiSvili

rad kidev ufro dacxeba. temper-

599 92 16 22

atura oqtombris bolos miaRwevs

piks, Tu mTavrobam arCevnebis gad-

adebiT civi wyali ar gadagvasxa. „nacionaluri moZraobis” dam-

fuZnebeli mirian mirianaSvili miiCnevs, rom „qarTuli ocneba”

arCevnebis dRes Zaladobasa da gayalbebas moerideba. misi TqmiT,

aSS-is elCi biZina ivaniSvils swored am Temebze esaubra. maT

Soris Sexvedra gasul kviras Sedga. mirianaSvilis TqmiTve,

mmarTveli partia sasurveli Sedegebis misaRebad sxva meTodebs

gamoiyenebs. es meTodebi meocnebeebs rusma partniorebma as-

wavles. savaraudod, rCevebisa da garkveuli miTiTebebis misac-

emad iyo TbilisSi Camosuli putinis marjvena xeli surkovic.

ra gziT Semovida surkovi

TbilisSi? ra meTodebs aziares

rusebma „qarTuli ocnebis” xe-

lisufleba? ra piroba misca

biZina ivaniSvilma amerikelebs?

raze evaWrebian mas opoziciuri

partiebis warmomadgenlebi?

rodis Camova amerikeli damkv-

irveblebis jgufi TbilisSi? _

am Temebis Sesaxeb „qronika+”-s

mirian mirianaSvili esaubreba:

_ gasul kviras amerikis

SeerTebuli Statebis elCi biZ-

ina ivaniSvils daxurul kars

miRma Sexvda. am vizitis Sesaxeb

sxvadasxva mosazreba gamoiTqva.

yvela Tanxmdeba, rom keli deg-

nani da „ocnebis” lideri arC-

evnebze isaubrebdnen. Tqven ra

iciT am audienciis Sesaxeb?

_ biZina ivaniSvili karga xania,

iTxovda amerikelebTan Sexvedras.

vaSingtoni didxans uars ambobda

masTan dialogze. bolos,

rogorc iqna, daTanxmda. amerikelebs

rom dalaparakeboda, amitom

dabrunda 2 wlis winaT politikaSi

da „qarTuli ocnebis” partiis

Tavmjdomaris posti daikava.

es nabiji rom ar gadaedga,

amerikelebTan molaparakebebis

magidasTan ver dajdeboda. mas

amisTvis aranairi statusi ar

gaaCnda. ivaniSvils aqamdec xom

surda amerikelebTan dialogi,

magram es grnoba belarusSi mimdinare

movlenebma ufro gaumZafra.

„qarTuli ocnebis” liderma

kargad icis, rom aleqsandre lukaSenkos

xelisuflebisgan gansxvavebiT

is verafers gaxdeba, Tu

aq amerika rames dagegmavs. amisTvis

winaaRmdegobis gasawevad arc

saTanado odenobis SearaRebuli

Zalebi gvyavs da arc finansuri

SesaZleblobebi gagvaCnia. lukaSenkom

sakmaod Zlieri reJimi Seqmna.

ivaniSvilis SemTxvevaSi sxvanairad

aris saqme _ visac ar daezareba,

yvela uRalatebs da marto

darCeba. igi gadawyvetilebis

miRebasac ki ver gabedavs.

aqedan gamomdinare, misTvis

amerikis poziciis gageba Zalian

mniSvnelovani iyo. zogierTi

qarTveli iluzias iqmnida, rom

amerikas postsabWoTa sivrce

ruseTis gavlenis sferod hqonda

aRiarebuli. fiqrobdnen, rom

amerikelebi movlenebs isev Soridan

daakvirdebonen da aq ar

Semovidodnen.

_ ratom egonaT, rom amerika

aq ar Semovidoda? am qveyanam

miliardobiT dolari Cado

saqarTvelos saxelmwifos aRm-

SeneblobaSi da gaWirvebis dros

yovelTvis Cven gverdiT idga.

_ saqarTvelos istoria ar

ician kargad da amitom ver gansazRvres,

Tu ra moxdeboda momavalSi.

Sua saukuneebidan moyolebuli,

mas Semdeg, rac Cveni

Zlevamosilebis epoqa warsuls

Cabarda, amierkavkasiaSi 31-jer

fundamenturad Seicvala politikuri

wesrigi da nominaciebi.

ratom egona viRacas, rom 31-e,

anu rusuli gavlena, am regionze

mudmivad SenarCundeboda, ar

mesmis.

_ isedac didi xania, ruseTis

gavlenis qveS varT da kidev

rogor unda gagrZeldes am

mdgomareobaSi cxovreba? maT-

Tan erTad ganviTarebis aranai-

ri perspeqtiva ar gvaqvs.

_ Zalian didi xania, ruseTis

gavlenis qveS varT. uniaToba

rom ar gamogveCina, ramdenjerme

gvqonda Sansi, rom am gavlenebisTvis

Tavi dagveRwia. yirimisa da

pirveli msoflio omis Semdgom

saqarTveloze ruseTis gavlenebi

Zalian Sesustda. Tavisuflad

SegveZlo gamovsuliyaviT maTi

arealidan, magram ruseTis gavlenis

qveS darCena isev qarTvelebma

iTaves. amitom davrCiT amdeni

xani ruseTis TaTis qveS.

„menSvikebic” rusebTan apirebdnen

TanamSromlobas. axla mxolod

qarTvelebze aRar aris damokidebuli,

eqneba Tu ara ruseTs

Cvens qveyanaze gavlena.

_ kargia, es mxolod qarTvelebze

rom aRar aris damokidebuli.

iqneb, dasavleTis dax-

marebiT rogorme movwydeT

rusul orbitas.

_ marTla kargia, rom es mxolod

Cveni gadasawyveti aRaraa.

ruseTis gavlenebis qveS CarCenas

qarTvelebi abraleben imas, rom

Tavis droze dasavleTi sakmarisad

ar dagvexmara.

_ iyo dro, roca dasavleTi

saTanadod marTlac ar gvex-

mareboda da rusul orbitaze

darCena gviwevda.

_ ase iyo, dasavleTi saTanadod

ar gviWerda mxars, magram es

mainc Zalian susti argumentia.

maT, vinc amiT amarTlebs rusul

orbitaze darCenas minda, Sevaxseno,

rom dasavleTi arc fineTsa

da baltiis qveynebs daxmarebia,

magram maT moskovis gavlenebisgan

Tavis daRweva moaxerxes.

dRes isini warmatebuli qveynebi

arian.

_ istoriaze saubari kargia,

magram Cvens mkiTxvels ivaniSvilisa

da amerikelebis molaparakebebis

detalebi ufro ain-

mirian mirianaSvili:

ìvaniSvili

xazaraZes

parlamentSi

5 adgils

sTavazobs, is

ki 6-s iTxovs~

teresebs da isev am Temas davu-

brundeT.

_ belarusSi mimdinare movlenebma

moskovsa da ivaniSvils Tvalebi

sabolood auxila. axla maT

ician, rom vaSingtonisTvis ruse-

Tis gavlenebis sfero bariers

aRar warmoadgens. roca es gaacnobiera,

„ocnebis” liderma myarad

gadawyvita, amerikelebTan

komunikacia daemyarebina. aRsani-

Snavia, rom, Tavis droze, vaSingtonTan

pirdapir komunikacias

ivaniSvils moskovi ukrZalavda.

_ ratom da rodis ukrZalavda

ivaniSvils kremli vaSington-

Tan pirdapir komunikacias?

_ komunikacias imitom ukr-

Zalavda, rom SiSobda, ivaniSvili

alievis gzas ar dasdgomoda. es

akrZalva „qarTuli ocnebis” liders

maSinve dauweses, rogorc

ki igi xelisuflebaSi movida.

premier-ministris posti ivaniSvilma

rusebis moTxovniT datova.

es yvelaferi ise SeifuTa,

TiTqos misi Tanamdebobidan

gadadgoma dasavleTma moiTxova.

gansakuTrebuli aqcenti amerikaze

keTdeba, magram es sisulelea.

_ sisulele ratom aris?

amerika ver mosTxovda, posti

datoveo?

_ sisulelea imitom, rom Tavis

droze ivaniSvilis saqarTvelos

xelisuflebaSi mosvlas

obamas administraciam dauWira

mxari. maTi CarTulobiT gadaabara

xelisufleba miSam biZinas

da ratom iqneboda vaSingtoni

ivaniSvilis premierobis winaaRmdegi?

misi mTavrobis meTaurad

yofna moskovis interesebSi ar

Sedioda. amerikelebTan komunikaciis

deficitis Sedegi iyo is

sasacilo gadawyvetilebebi,

romelsac saqarTvelos xelisufleba

iRebda. am tendenciam gan-

`belarusSi mimdinare movlenebma moskovsa da

ivaniSvils Tvalebi sabolood auxila. axla

maT ician, rom vaSingtonisTvis ruseTis

gavlenebis sfero bariers aRar warmoadgens.

roca es gaacnobiera, òcnebis~ liderma

myarad gadawyvita, amerikelebTan komunikacia

daemyarebina. aRsaniSnavia, rom, Tavis droze,

vaSingtonTan pirdapir komunikacias

ivaniSvils moskovi ukrZalavda~

sakuTrebiT pandemiis dros iCina

Tavi. roca xelisuflebis saTaveSi

xar, is mainc unda icode,

rom arc amerika da arc gavleniani

politikuri wreebi arCevnebamde

saqarTveloSi arafers arc

gegmavdnen da arc dagegmaven.

yvela elodeba arCevnebis dasrulebas.

oRond unda gaviTvaliswinoT

isic, rom dRes generaluri

brZola midis belarusSi.

_ gindaT TqvaT, rom amer-

ikasa da dasavleTs Cveni arC-

evnebi aRar ainteresebs?

_ rogor ar ainteresebs, magram

generaluri brZola mimdinareobs

minskSi. Tu moskovs

belarusi nawilobriv mainc daaTmobines,

kremli saqarTveloze

gavlenebis damyarebas aRar Seecdeba.

amis gakeTeba, ubralod,

nonsesi iqneba. es niSnavs rusuli

imperiis aRorZinebis trendis

mTlianad dangrevas. amiT yvela

gaigebs, rom imperiis aRdgenas

ruseTi veRar SeZlebs.

_ ratom veRar SeZlebs?

_ sxva postsabWTa respublikebze

gavlena Tu daekargeba,

marto saqarTvelos xom ar moe-

Wideba? es Zalian sasacilo iqneba.

saqarTvelo am situaciaSi

movlenebis Semdgomi ganviTarebis

adgilia da ara brZolis asparezi.

CvenTvis kargia, movlenebi

rom am gziT midis. amerikelebTan

komunikaciis dros ivaniSvili

cdilobda gaego, Tu ras

apirebs vaSingtoni, raTa aq revolucia

ar mieRo. mas kapitulaciis

ramdenime paketi hqonda.

_ ra kapitulaciaze saubr-

obT?

_ politikur kapitulaciaze.

is mzad iyo, amerikelebisTvis es

paketebi SeeTavazebina. am Sexvedrebis

yvela detali ar vici,

magram erTi rame danamdvilebiT

SemiZlia vTqva, rom ivaniSvilma

maqsimalurad gamWvirvale arCevnebis

Catarebis direqtiva gasca.

_ es, albaT, amerikelebis

moTxovna iyo.

_ ra Tqma unda, amerikelebis

moTxovna iyo da ivaniSvilmac

6 N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.


moskovidan miTiTebebi Camoutana~

gadawyvita, rom arCevnebi maqsimalurad

gamWvirvaled Catardeba.

oRond es imas ar niSnavs, rom

ar gayalbdeba.

_ ras gulisxmobT? gamWvir-

vale arCevnebi da gayalbebebi

rogor Tavsdeba erTmaneTTan?

_ arCevnebis dRes Zaladoba

da biuletenebis Cayra ar iqneba,

gayalbebis sxva meqanizmebi ki

kvlav ZalaSi rCeba. arCevnebis

gamWvirvaled Catareba xelisuflebisTvisac

aucilebelia da

opoziciisTvisac. aq Tu revolucia

moxda, orive mxare dazaraldeba.

„nacionalebic” da

„evropuli saqarTveloc” rusuli

gavlenebis qveS imyofebian da

biZinas politikur konstruqciaze

arian Camokidebulebi Tu

politikurad Tu finansurad. am

suraTis dangreva aravis unda.

jer kidev ramdenime Tvis win

vTqvi „qronika+”-sTan, rom

saqarTveloSi amerikidan 400

damkvirvebeli Camova-meTqi. es

realizdeba da damkvirveblebi

male saqarTveloSi iqnebian.

_ pandemia amerikeli

damkvirveblebis saqarTveloSi

Camosvlas xels ver SeuSlis?

_ ver SeuSlis. damkvirveblebad

amerikas is xalxi Camohyavs,

visac organizmSi antisxeulebi

aqvs, anu ukve gadaitana koronavirusi.

isini yuradRebiT

daakvirdebian arCevnebis mimdinareobas.

„qarTuli ocneba”

iZulebuli gaxdeba, rom arCevnebi

gamWvirvaled Caataros. xelisufleba

gayalbebas sxva me-

TodebiT Seecdeba.

_ ra meTodebiT?

_ jer kidev gasuli wlis Semodgomaze

hqondaT saqarTvelos

xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebs

komunikacia erT-erT rusul

politteqnologiebis kompaniasTan.

am kompanias sTxoves, maT-

Tvis arCevnebis Sedegebis „gakeTebis”

proeqti daeweraT. „qar-

Tuli ocneba” iseT proeqts iTxovda,

romelic arCevnebze Zalis

gamoyenebas saWiros aRar gaxdida.

es gegma ukve SemuSaveulia. im

pirovnebis vinaobac vici, vinc es

gegma dauwera biZina ivaniSvilis

partias.

_ vin aris?

_ misi vinaobis gamxelis ufleba

ar maqvs. am adamianma Tavis

gundTan erTad kargad Seiswavla

Cveni saarCevno kodeqsi. biZina

ivaniSvils kodeqsSi patar-patara

cvlilebebic Seatanines. ase

Camoyalibda gegma. am gegmis

Tanaxmad, pirvel rigSi, pirobi-

Ti msjavris mqone adamianebs gamoiyeneben.

bolo ori welia,

ruseTi am inovacias regionebSi

aqtiurad iyenebs.

_ pirobiTi msjavris mqone

adamianebi rogor unda gamoiy-

enon?

_ Zalian martivad: isini raRacaze

rom daiTanxmon, amisTvis

kompromatic araa saWiro. problema

sul sxva mimarTulebiT

Seiqmna _ pirobiTi msjavris mqone

adamianebis raodenoba „somxuri

karuselis” dasatrialeblad

saqarTveloSi sakmarisi ar iyo.

maTi raodenoba gazardes. bolo

`Zalian didi xania, ruseTis gavlenis qveS varT. uniaToba rom ar

gamogveCina, ramdenjerme gvqonda Sansi, rom am gavlenebisTvis Tavi

dagveRwia. yirimisa da pirveli msoflio omis Semdgom saqarTveloze

ruseTis gavlenebi Zalian Sesustda. Tavisuflad SegveZlo gamovsuliyaviT

maTi arealidan, magram ruseTis gavlenis qveS darCena isev qarTvelebma

iTaves. amitom davrCiT amdeni xani ruseTis TaTis qveS~

eqvs TveSi, pandemiis periodSi,

Zalian bevri adamianis (1.100-mde)

mimarT gamoiyenes pirobiTi msjavri.

dRes saqarTveloSi pirobi-

Ti msjavrdadebulis raodenoba

4.000-mde iqneba. maT „qarTuli

ocneba” sakmaod aqtiurad gamoiyenebs

saarCevno kampaniaSi.

„qarTulma ocnebam” arCevnebis

gayalbebis sxva meqanizmic SeimuSava:

Zalian gamartivda sacxovrebel

farTze registracia.

problemur ubnebze aTasobiT

adamiani hyavT sacxovrebel far-

TebSi registrirebuli. am sacxovrebeli

farTebis klasterad

gamoiyenes is 120.000 bina, romelic

binaTmesakuTreebma dakarges,

magram jer gayiduli ar aris.

faqtobrivad, mTeli armia hyavs

„ocnebas” mobilizebuli arCevnebis

gasayalbeblad. daaxloebiT

10.000 adamiania mzad imisTvis,

rom arCevnebis gasayalbeblad

nebismieri direqtiva Seasrulos.

am adamianebs eqnebaT ukve Semoxazuli

biuletenebi da maTi misia

am biuletenebis saarCevno urnaSi

Cayra iqneba.arCevnebis gayalbebis

meqanizmebis Camoyalibeba

zurab Jvanias droidan daiwyo.

30 welia, es meTodebi sul

ixveweba da ixveweba. erT dReSi

am sistemis CamoSla fizikurad

SeuZlebelia. samwuxaroa, magram

realobaa, rom qarTuli sazogadoebis

didi nawili gamazoxistebulia.

arCevnebis gayalbebaSi aTi

aTasobiT adamiania CarTuli. am

process kurirebs susi. saqarTvelos

specsamsaxurebis erTerTi

funqcia arCevnebis gayalbeba

gaxlavT. es sasacilo iqneboda,

satirali rom ar iyos. Cveni

sociumis mazoxistobasa da Sizofreniaze

dasavleTSi seriozuli

disertaciebia ukve daculi.

Zalian sasacilo mdgomareobaSi

CavagdeT sakuTari qveyana,

magram raRac winsvla ukve SeiniSneba.

isic Sedegia, rom saku-

Triv arCevnebis dRes Zaladoba

da gayalbeba ar iqneba.

_ arCevnebi mainc Tu unda

gayalbdes, ra mniSvneloba aqvs,

rodis gayalbdeba?

_ sanam am hidras, romelsac

arCevnebis gayalbebis industria

`generaluri brZola mimdinareobs minskSi. Tu

moskovs belarusi nawilobriv mainc

daaTmobines, kremli saqarTveloze gavlenebis

damyarebas aRar Seecdeba. amis gakeTeba,

ubralod, nonsesi iqneba. es niSnavs rusuli

imperiis aRorZinebis trendis mTlianad

dangrevas. amiT yvela gaigebs, rom imperiis

aRdgenas ruseTi veRar SeZlebs~

hqvia, yvela Tavs ar movaWriT,

gayalbebi manamde iqneba. kidev

gavimeoreb: arCevnebis dRes Zaladobas

ver naxavT da es wingadadgmuli

nabijia.

_ darwmunebuli xarT, rom

Zaladoba ar iqneba?

_ biZina ivaniSvilma aseTi

valdebuleba aiRo. mas amerikam

araferi mosTxova, es valdebuleba

sakuTari iniciativiT

aiRo. is am davalebas ar aiRebda,

amerikis aqtiuroba rom ara.

postpandemiuri saqarTvelo

nel-nela unda gamovides rusuli

gavlenebidan. erT-erTi

nabiji am mimarTulebiT iqneba

gayalbebebis industriis demontaJi.

am sistemis demontaJs sakmaod

didi dro dasWirdeba. am

industriaSi aTeulobiT aTasi

adamiania CarTuli. vimeoreb:

qarTvelebs politikuri mazoxizmi

lamis sisxlSi gaujdaT. momdevno

eqvsi Tvis ganmavlobaSi

am industriis daSla daiwyeba.

momavali wlis arCevnebi ukve

normalurad Catardeba.

_

TviTmmarTvelobis

arCevnebs gulisxmobT?

_ ara marto TviTmmarTvelobis

arCevnebs. TiTqmis darwmunebuli

var, rom erT weliwadSi

saqarTveloSi vadamdeli saparlamento

arCevnebis Catareba

gaxdeba saWiro. am arCevnebisgan

bevrs arafers velodebi. iseTi

informaciebi momdis, rom gami-

Wirdeba samarTlian arCevnebze

saubari.

_ ra informacebi mogdiT da

visgan?

_ araqarTvelebisgan momdis

informaciebi, Zalian seriozuli

xalxia da arasdros ityuebian.

rogorc isini meubnebian, ivaniSvilsa

da zogierT opoziciur

partias Soris vaWroba mimdnareobs.

_ vin evaWreba ivaniSvils?

_ rogorc miTxres, „lelosa”

da biZinas Soris midis didi

vaWroba.

_ raze vaWroben?

_ biZina lelos momaval parlamentSi

sTavazobs 5 adgils,

magram, rogorc amboben, xazaraZe

ar Tanxmdeba, is meeqvse kacsac

iTxovs. amaze midis axla mola-

parakebebi. es qarTul politika-

Si Cveulebrivi ambavia. yvela

vaWrobs ivaniSvilTan.

_ kidev vin vaWrobs?

_ TiTqmis yvela partiasTan

midis vaWroba. yvelas gaunawila

ivaniSvilma momaval parlamentSi

adgilebi.

_ ranairad gaunawila adgile-

bi, xalxs aravin ekiTxeba?

_ Cveulebrivad gaunawila.

marto adgilebze ki ar vaWroben,

aramed is ubnebic garkveulia,

sadac ama Tu im partiisTvis

sasargeblo Sedegi unda dafiqsirdes.

roca gayalbebis industria

aseT maRal donezea, iq samarTlian

arCevnebze laparaki

zedmetia. mxolod miamit amomrCevels

hgonia, rom arCevnebis

Sedegebi mis aqtiuobaze aris

damokidebuli. samarTlian arCevnebs

ara, magram imas ki velodebi,

rom arCevnebze Zaladoba

aRar iqneba. ivaniSvilma dasavleTs

amis piroba misca.

_ biZina ivaniSvili gasul

wels dasavleTs imasac dahpir-

da, rom arCevnebi proporciuli

wesiT Catardebao, magram „ambox-

ebulma” maJoritarebma es cv-

lileba Caagdes. axla ratom ar

gadaagdebs dasavleTs?

_ mas Semdeg bevri rame Seicvala.

ivaniSvili sakmaod kargad

afasebs belarusSi mimdinare

procesebs da icis, rac elodeba,

Tu Zaladobis gzas airCevs.

amas is xalxic kargad acnobierebs,

romelic ruseTis kuratorobiT

ivaniSvilTan erTad politikur

gadawyvetilebebs iRebs.

_ visTan erTad iRebs ivaniSvili

politikur gadawyvetile-

bebs?

_ CxartiSvilTan, xazaraZesTan,

bokeriasTan. Zalian seriozuli

xalxisgan gavige, rom

TbilisSi saidumlo misiiT imyofeboda

putinis marjvena xeli

surkovi. is saqarTvelos teritoriaze

somxeTidan Semovida.

man, savaraudod, miTiTebebi da

rCevebi misca „qarTul ocnebas”

da qarTvel politikosebs. am ar-

Cevnebze gansakuTrebuli araferi

moxdeba, momaval wels ki seriozuli

arCevnebi iqneba. saqar-

Tvelo rusul orbitas datovebs.

saakaSvili isev ar Camova. amas

dasavleTi ar dauSvebs. dRes

miSa saqarTveloSi dabrunebas

rom ver axerxebs, es dasavleTis

damsaxurebaa. miSa maT nebas emorCileba.

gancxadebebs dabrunebaze

mxolod piarisTvis akeTebs.

N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.

7


`vcdilob, opoziciaSi arsebuli

opozicia kmayofilia, rom

Sorena marsagiSvili

saqarTveloSi mravlad aris gada-

599 92 16 22

uwyveteli amomrCeveli. opozi-

cionerebi darwmunebuli arian,

rom es xmebi maTi mimarTulebiT wava. amaSi eWvi arc saarCevno

blok „Zala erTobaSias” erT-erT lider paata daviTaias

epareba. CvenTan saubarSi is 2003 da 2012 wlebs ixsenebs, roca

gadauwyvetelma amomrCevelma opoziciis sasargeblod gaake-

Ta arCevani. mas eWvi arc imaSi epareba, rom ramdenime TveSi

saqarTvelos koaliciuri mTavroba eyoleba. ambobs, rom es

dasavleTis moTxovna da qarTveli xalxis dakveTaa.

ratom aqvs gadauwyveteli

amomrCevlis imedi? raze miiRo

gafrTxileba

ivaniSvilma

amerikisgan? ratom saubrobs

„qarTuli ocneba” gamarjvebaze?

ras daupirispirebs opozicia

xelisuflebis mxridan wamosul

Zaladobas? ra problemebia

opoziciis SigniT? ra sa-

kiTxebi ar gamodis gareT? _

amis Sesaxeb paata daviTaia

„qronika+~-s esaubreba:

_ ramdenime partiam saarC-

evno bloki „Zala erTobaSia”

SeqmeniT. ratom gadawyviteT

masSi gawevrianeba?

_ am blokSi ukve meored gavwevriandi.

pirvelad Cven am formatiT

2018 wels gamovediT da

sakmaod warmatebuli arCevnebi

gvqonda. xelisufleba aseT gayalbebaze

rom ar wasuliyo, dRes

saqarTvelos prezidenti sxva

adamiani iqneboda.

_ blokma „Zala erTobaSiam”

2018 wels marTla kargi Sedegi

aCvena, sainteresoa, ra iqneba

wels? sanam am Temaze vi-

saubrebdeT, mainteresebs, ras

fiqrobT blokSi kaxa oqriaSvilis

gawevrianebzaze? es adami-

ani maJoritaruli sistemis

SesanarCuneblad ibrZoda, Tqven

ki am sistemis winaaRmdegi iyav-

iT. masTan TanamSromloba ar

gagiWirdebaT?

_ ar gamiWirdeba, miuxedavad

imisa, rom Cemi partiisa da misi

xedvebi radikalurad gansxvavdeba

erTmaneTisgan. Cven yovel-

Tvis mxars vuWerdiT maJoritaruli

sistemis gauqmebas, kaxa

oqriaSvili ki am sistemis momxrea.

is yovelTvis am poziciaze

iyo da biZina ivaniSvilis miTi-

TebebiT ar Seucvlia aRniSnuli

sakiTxis mimarT Tavisi damokidebuleba.

_ amis gamo ar gagiWirdebaT

masTan TanamSromloba?

_ marto amis gamo ara. dasafasebelia,

rom adamiani sxvisi

miTiTebiT ar cvlis poziciebs.

is, rom kaxa oqriaSvili CvenTan

erTad aris blokSi, veranair

problemas ver vxedav. rac fro

meti adamiani iqneba opoziciur

blokSi „qarTuli ocnebis” winaaRmdeg,

miT metia Sansi imisa,

rom xelisufleba Seicvalos. am

mniSvnelovani arCevnebisTvis, samwuxarod,

didi saarCevno bloki

ver Sedga, magram rac Sedga,

isic kargia. kaxa oqriaSvilTan

vTanxmdebiT, rom xelisufleba

unda Seicvalos, yvelaferSi er-

Ti azri ar gveqneba, es normaluria.

_ xelisuflebis Secvlis

SemTxvevaSi opozicia pirobas

debs, rom Secvlis kanons da

arCevnebi saqarTveloSi sru-

lad proporciuli sistemiT

Catardeba. roca es sakiTxi ken-

Wisyraze dadgeba, kaxa oqriaS-

vili isev maJoritaruli siste-

mis momxre iqneba?

_ maJoritaruli sistemis momxre

iqneba. mas es pozicia mravali

welia, rac aqvs da meeWeba,

axla Seecvalos damokidebuleba.

kidev erTxel vambob, rom

araa aucilebeli, yvelani erT

poziciaze viyoT. gansxvavebul

azrs pativi unda vceT.

_ kaxa oqriaSvilis msgavsad

sxvebic rom wavidnen srulad

proporciul sistemaze gadasvlis

winaaRmdegi, mere ra xde-

ba?

_ es gamoricxulia. dRevandeli

opoziciis absoluturi umravlesoba

mxars uWers maJoritaruli

sistemis gauqmebas. momdevno

arCevnebi srulad proporciuli

sistemiT Catardeba.

es rom moxdes, amisTvis jer arsebuli

xelisufleba unda gavuSvaT.

_ Tqven sinanuliT aRniSneT,

rom didi opoziciuri saar-

Cevno bloki ver Sedga. ratom?

SeuZlebeli iyo, Tu raRac ise-

Ti moxda, ramac didi gaerTi-

anebis Seqmnas xeli SeuSala?

_ SeuZlebeli ar iyo didi

blokis Seqmna. Tu moindomeb,

yvelaferi gamova. axla siRrmeebSi

da detalebSi Casvla ar

msurs, magram viRacebma blokis

miRma gadawyvites arCevnebSi

monawileoba. droTa ganmavloba-

Si amaze, albaT, aucileblad visaubreb.

am sakiTxze sxvebisgan

gansxvavebiT Zalian bevr informacias

vflob. arCevnebamde am

Temaze ar visaubreb. mxolod

wuxiliT Semovifarglebi, rom

ufro didi opoziciuri gaer-

Tianebis Seqmna ver SevZeliT.

aqve vTqvaT simarTle da vaRiaroT,

rom dRes mTavari opoziciuri

Zala saarCevno blok „Zala

erTobaSia” gawevrianebuli,

Cven SegviZlia xelisuflebis

Secvla.

_ opoziciis didi nawili

Tveebis manZilze erTi magidis

garSemo isxediT. didi xani iyaviT

TanamebrZolebi, erTad ideqiT

aqciebzec, magram axla erTmaneTTan

xarT dapirispire-

bulebi, es arCevnebis Sedegebze

gavlenas ar moaxdens?

_ Cven gagebiT vekidebiT erTmaneTis

poziciebs, ufro moTminebiT

vismenT gansxvavebul

azrs, rac erT rameze miuTiTebs

_ saqarTveloSi politikuri kultura

gaizarda. dRes rom opozicia

erTmaneTSi ase mkveTrad

dapirispirebuli ar aris, amaSi

mec Sevitane didi wvlili da

amiT Zalian vamayob.

_ ra wvlili SeitaneT?

_ opoziciuri partiebis koordinacia

me mexeba. yvelaferi

CemTan iyris Tavs. vici, sad ra

xdeba. Tu rame problemaa, vcdilob,

es ise movagvaro, rom mas

didi xmauri ar mohyves.

_ e. i. kidev aris raRac dapirispirebebi,

rac Cven ar vic-

iT, asea?

_ ara, ara. me dapirispirebaze

ar vsaubrob. teqnikuri problemebis

mogvarebaze mogaxsenebT.

erT magidasTan vsxedvarT yvela

da mSvidad vsaubrobT. esec

didi miRwevaa. saarCevno reJim-

Si vimyofebiT da yvelani erTmaneTis

konkurentebi varT. aseT

dros erTmaneTTan normalurad

saubari xumroba saqme ar aris.

_ jerjerobiT raRacnairad

paata daviTaia:

àmerikam

biZina

ivaniSvili

gaafrTxila~

axerxebT opozicia Tavis Sekave-

bas, magram ase rodemde gast-

ans?

_ bolomde ase viqnebiT. darwmunebuli

var, rom arCevnebze

ase mivalT. arc imaSi mepareba

eWvi, rom momaval parlamentSi

erToblivad vimoqmedebT da er-

Tad SevqmniT koaliciur mTavrobas.

_ reitingebsa da kvlevebze

ras fiqrobT? opozicias didad

saxarbielo Sedegi ar aqvs.

_ dRes reitingebze saubris

aranairi survili ar maqvs, radgan

bevri magaliTis moyvana SemiZlia,

Tu rogor cruobda reitingebi.

saprezidento arCevnebis

win „Zala erTbaSias” kandidat

grigol vaSaZes 16-17% ewera,

magram 40% aviReT. am reitingebSi

erTi rame iyo saintereso,

60%-mde amomrCeveli gadauwyvetelia.

es xelisuflebisTvis

Zalian mZime suraTia.

_ xelisuflebisTvis ratom

aris mZime?

àm mniSvnelovani arCevnebisTvis, samwuxarod,

didi saarCevno bloki ver Sedga, magram rac

Sedga, isic kargia. kaxa oqriaSvilTan

vTanxmdebiT, rom xelisufleba unda

Seicvalos, yvelaferSi erTi azri ar gveqneba,

es normaluria~

_ aseTi xmebi yovelTvis

opoziciisken midis.

_ viTom yovelTvis asea?

_ amaze cifrebi da faqtebi

metyvelebs. 2012 wels amomrCevlis

58% gadauwyveteli iyo. es

xmebi bolo momentSi „qarTuli

ocnebisken” wavida da xelisufleba

Seicvala. zustad aseTi

suraTi iyo 2003 wels, maSin 48%-

s ar hqonda gadawyvetili, Tu

vis miscemda xmebs. es xmebi bolos

opoziciisken wavida da xelisufleba

Seicvala. amitom

vTqvi, rom amdeni gadauwyveteli

amomrCeveli xelisuflebisTvis

sagangaSoa. unda gaviTvaliswinoT

isic, rom es 60% gadawyvetilebas

miiRebs emociurad,

rac imas niSnavs, rom es xmebi

SeiZleba, xelisuflebis mxaresac

wavides.

_ anu arcTu iseTi cudi suraTi

yofila xelisuflebi-

sTvis.

_ opoziciisTvis ufro kargi

suraTia, yvelaferi SeiZleba

moxdes, magram aseTi gadauwyveteli

amomrCeveli, rogorc wesi,

ufro opoziciisken ixreba. 2003

welsac ase moxda da 2012 welsac.

_ 2003 da 2012 wels ukve aSkarad

gamoikveTa, rom xelisu-

flebis Secvla gardauvali iyo.

Canda is Zalac, romelic xelisuflebis

Canacvlebas Se-

Zlebda. axla aseTi rame ar Cans.

_ maSin SeiZleba Canda konkretuli

Zala, romelic Secvlida

xelisuflebas. axla aseTi erTi

konkretuli Zala ar Cans, magram

iseTi situaciaa Seqmnili, rom

gadauwyveteli amomrCevlis xmebi

opoziciuri partiebisken wava.

_ aseTi darwmunebuli ratom

xarT?

_ imitom, rom vici, ra aris

dasavleTis moTxovna da Cveni

mosaxleobis dakveTa. erTic da

meorec miiCnevs, rom saqarTveloSi

koaliciuri mTavrobis

Seqmna gardauvalia. sazogadoebas

yelSi amouvida erTpartiuli

mmarTveloba. es mafiqrebinebs

swored imas, rom gadauwyveteli

amomrCevlis xmebi opoziciisken

wava. opoziciuri Zale-

8 N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.


problemebi gareT ar gamovides~

bi, Tavis mxriv, koaliciur

mTavrobas Seqmnian.

_ darwmunebuli xarT, rom

opoziciuri Zalebi moaxerxeben

koaliciuri mTavrobis Seqmnas?

„qarTuli ocneba” ambobs, rom

damoukideblad daakompleqtebs

mTavrobas.

_ opozicia aucileblad Seqmnis

koaliciur mTavrobas. „qarTuli

ocneba” parlamentSi umravlesobas

veRar aiRebs. es yvela

kvlevidan Cans da amas biZina

ivaniSvili unda Seeguos. er-

Tpartiuli mmarTveloba aRarc

Cveni xalxisTvis aris misaRebi

da aRarc _ dasavleTisTvis.

_ dasavleTi vaxseneT da xom

ar iciT, raze isaubres aSS-s

elCma da biZina ivaniSvilma wina

kviraSi?

_ am Sexvedris detalebi ar

vici, isini erTmaneTs daxurul

kars miRma Sexvdnen. me mxolod

sajaro gancxadebebidan gamomdinare

SemiZlia vimsjelo. sajaro

gancxadebebidan gamomdinare

Cans, rom vaSingtoni seriozulad

afrTxilebs „qarTul ocnebas”.

amerikam seriozulad

gaafrTxila biZina ivaniSvilic.

_ „qarTul ocnebas” gafrTx-

ilebis miRebis araferi etyoba,

Zalian Tavxedurad iqceva. isev

imas ambobs, rom arCevnebSi um-

ravlesobas is aiRebs.

_ amasTan dakavSirebiT gakeTebul

gancxadebebs me did

yuradRebas ar vaqcev da sxvebsac

amas vurCev. bunebrivia,

mmarTveli partiis warmomadgenlebi

amas rom amboben. is ufro

ucnauri iqneboda eTqvaT, rom

arCevnebSi damarcxdebian.

_ wavagebTo, amas arc erTi

partia ambobs, magram eseni

nametani igeben. amboben, 60%-s

miviRebT arCevnebzeo. cota

mokrZalebuli cifri rom

daasaxelon, ar SeiZleba?

_ axla iciT, rogor gamodis?

_ policieli nasvam axalgazrdas

rom eubneba, bans ki ambob, magram

cota mogudulad Tqvio. arCevnebi

brZolaa, am dros aTas rames

amboben partiebi. xelisufleba

bunebrivia, rom mogebaze saubrobs.

es, pirvel rigSi, maT amomrCevelze

gaTvlili gancxadebaa.

_ mogebaze opoziciac saub-

robs da Tqveni gancxadebebic

mxolod piarze xom ar aris

gaTvlili?

_ ras ityvis an xelisufleba,

an opozicia, amas mniSvneloba ar

aqvs. mTavri isaa, Tu ra gadawyvetilebas

miiRebs xalxi. mowodebebi

da gancxadebebi mravlad

iqneba, saarCevno procesi

amis gareSe warmoudgenelia, magram

sabolood xalxi gadawyvets,

vin xelisufleba iqneba,

vin _ pozicia da vin wava saxlSi.

_ Jurnalistebisa da opoziciis

momxreebis mimarT Zaladoba

iyo. am faqtebze opozicias,

ratomRac, mwvave reagire-

ba ar hqonia.

_ ver vityvi, rom saTanado

reagireba ar gvqonia. reaqcia

iyo da msgavsi faqtebis ganmeo-

`dRes reitingebze saubris aranairi survili ar maqvs, radgan bevri

magaliTis moyvana SemiZlia, Tu rogor cruobda reitingebi. saprezidento

arCevnebis win `Zala erTbaSias~ kandidat grigol vaSaZes 16-17% ewera,

magram 40% aviReT. am reitingebSi erTi rame iyo saintereso, 60%-mde

amomrCeveli gadauwyvetelia. es xelisuflebisTvis Zalian mZime suraTia~

rebis SemTxvevaSi Cven ufro mwvaved

gamovxatavT Cvens poziciebs.

am kviraSi dafuZndeba amomrCevelTa

xmebis dacvis Stabi,

sadac yvela Zaladobrivi faqti

moiyris Tavs. am monacemebs Cvens

dasavlel partniorebs mivawvdi.

me pirdapiri kontaqtebi maqvs am

Temebze diplomatiur korpusTan,

Zaladobaze Zalian mkveTri

reaqciebi gveqneba.

_ Tqven ki moaxdenT am Zaladobaze

reagirebas, magram xelisuflebas

ramdenad aaRe-

binebT amaze xels?

_ „qarTuli ocneba” Zaladobaze

uars Tu ar ityvis, amaze Zalian

mwared agebs pasuxs. Cveni

dasavleli partniorebi ivaniSvils

amas aRar apatieben. Zalian

`maSin Cven saarCevno kampania, sul raRac, 2

milioni lari dagvijda, roca xelisuflebam

200 milioni dolari daxarja. gansxvavebas xom

xedavT? es fuli im adamianis

gasaprezidenteblad daxarjes, romelic maT

Tavs Wris. òcneba~ Tavis prezidents malavs~

araordinaluri da saintereso

situaciaa Seqmnili. Cven ki vsaubrobT

xelisuflebis mxridan

wamosul Zaladobaze, magram

aSkaraa, rom „qarTuli ocneba”

ufro frTxilobs. gavixsenoT

2018 wlis saprezidento arCevnebi.

am arCevnebze „qarTuli ocneba”

saSinlad iqceoda.

_ arCevnebamde erT Tveze

meti droa darCenili da jer

yvelaferi win aris.

_ ver vityvi, rom saerTod

xels aiRebs xelisufleba Zaladobaze,

magram aSkarad TavSekavebiT

iqceva. etyoba, dasavleTis

gaRizianebis eSinia. am etapze

asea, ra iqneba win, aravin icis.

im SemTxvevaSi, Tu aq gamosvlebi

daiwyo da xelisuflebam 20 ivnisi

gaimeora, amas ivaniSvils

aravin aRar apatiebs. „qarTuli

ocneba” maqsimalurad Seecdeba,

rom dasavleTi ar gaaRizianos.

_ mosaxleobis seriozuli

nawili saerTod uars ambobs

arCevnebze misvlaze. am xalxis

miyvanas rogor apirebT saar-

Cevno ubnebTan?

_ raRac monaxazebi gvaqvs,

magram ar viciT, Tu rogor gavakeTebT

amas, Cven xom axla gansakuTrebul

mdgomareobaSi

varT _ virusTan gviwevs Tanacxovreba.

rac ar unda davgegmoT,

koronam SeiZleba, yvelaferi

Segvicvalos. amitom raRacebze

saubrisgan Tavs Sevikaveb.

_ virusTan gviwevs Tanacx-

ovrebao da am virusis SiSiT

SeiZleba, rom mosaxleoba

arCevnebze ar wavides?

_ gamoricxuli araferia. es

Tavad amomrCevelzea damokidebuli,

maT nacvlad ver gipasuxebT.

imaze SemiZlia gesaubroT,

Tu ra meTodebia imisTvis, raTa

amomrCeveli ubanze miviyvanoT.

koronam yvela es meTodi Sei-

Zleba Tavdayira daayenos.

_ amomrCevlis miyvanaze imitom

gkiTxeT, rom xelisufle-

ba aucileblad SeZlebs Tavisi

momxreebis mobilizebas.

_ magram sakiTxavia, vis miscems

es amomrCeveli arCevnebze

xmas? 2018 wlis arCevnebma Zalian

saintereso ram gvaCvena. opoziciam

am arCevnebze uamravi xma

aiRo. amdeni xma iciT, rogor

davagroveT? Cvens kandidats

Zalian bevrma saxelmwifo moxelem

misca xma. saxelmwifo moxeleebSi

„ocnebam” im wels arCevnebi

waago.

_ Tqveni azriT, welsac igive

ganmeordeba?

_ ar vici. gadaWriT imis Tqma

SemiZlia, rom administraciuli

resursis mobilizeba imas ar ni-

Snavs, rom isini xelisuflebas

miscemen xmas. ori wlis winaT bevrma

saxelmwifo moxelem opoziciis

kandidats misca xma.

_ mag arCevnebze milionamde

xma miiReT, magram rad ginda? _

arCevnebi mainc xelisuflebis

kandidatma moigo.

_ eg sul sxva Temaa, maSin Cven

saarCevno kampania, sul raRac, 2

milioni lari dagvijda, roca

xelisuflebam 200 milioni dolari

daxarja. gansxvavebas xom

xedavT? es fuli im adamianis

gasaprezidenteblad daxarjes,

romelic maT Tavs Wris. „ocneba”

Tavis prezidents malavs.

_ raki „ocnebis” rCeuls

SevexeT, am partiis saarCevno

siaze da maJoritarebze ra

azris xarT?

_ am Semadgenlobas rom gadavxede,

kidev ufro Rrmad davrwmundi,

rom „qarTuli ocneba”

marTla erTi kacis partiaa.

ivaniSvili rom CamoSordes

„qarTul ocnebas”, iq erTi kacic

ar darCeba.

_ ise, marTla sainteresoa,

ra moxdeba, ivaniSvili Tavis

gunds rom gaemijnos? Tu ase-

Ti ram ar moxdeba?

_ iseT epoqaSi gviwevs cxovreba,

rom gamoricxuli araferia.

arCevnebis win ivaniSvili

partias ar CamoSordeba, magram

arCevnebis Semdeg ra iqneba, es

aravin icis. amis prognozireba

Znelia. sazogadoebasTan mWidro

kontaqti maqvs da vici maTi ganwyobebi.

maTi nawili opozicias

imitom ki ar mscems xmas, rom

opoziciis mxardamWeria, aramed

imitom, rom am Zalas Seswevs

unari, ivaniSvili gauSvas saxl-

Si. Zalian saintereso viTareba

Seiqmna. aseTive viTareba iyo

2012 welsac. maSin arCevnebi biZina

ivaniSvilma ki ar moigo,

aramed miSa saakaSvilma waago. am

aCevnebzec igive moxdeba, ivaniSvili

waagebs arCevnebs. is garemoeba,

rom opozicias SeuZlia

erTad dasxdoma, xalxs imis Sanss

aZlevs, rom mas misces xma.

Zalian bevr iseT adamians vicnob,

romelic „qarTuli ocnebis”

mxardamWeri iyo. axla es adamianebi

amboben, rom ivaniSvilis

partias xmas aRar miscemen.

_ TqmiT SeiZleba, ase am-

boben, magram micemiT mainc

ivaniSvils miscemen xmas.

_ ara, ase ar iqneba. am xelisuflebis

saqcieli bevrs amouvida

yelSi. „qarTulma ocnebam”

bevri mxardamWeri dakarga. bevrma

iseTma adamianma miTxra,

opozicias mivcem xmaso, amas verasdros

warmovidgendi. isini

opozicias imitom ki ar aZleven

xmas, rom an me an sxva vinme moswonT,

isini xmas imitom gvaZleven,

rom „qarTuli ocneba” aRar

undaT. xalxi xvdeba, rom Cven

SegviZlia arsebuli xelisuflebis

Secvla. Zalian saintereso

fenomeni Camoyalibda bolo

wlebSi saqarTveloSi. win saintereso

da mniSvnelovani arCevnebi

gvelodeba.

N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.

9


àr mainteresebs, vin

or aTeul weliwadze metia,

giorgi abaSiZe

vicnob. SeiZleba, misi da Cemi

politikuri gemovneba erTmaneTs

ar emTxveva, magram mimaCnia, rom qarTul politikur speqtr-

Si erT-erTi yvelaze inteleqtualia. amitom, roca gavige,

rom politikaSi dabrunda („patriotTa aliansis” saparlamen-

to siis oceulSia, Tumca partiis wevri ar gamxdara), ar

dagimalavT da, mesiamovna. weRandeli Tqmisa ar iyos, piradad

me „patriotTa aliansis” amomrCeveli ar var da arc is mgo-

nia, rom saqarTvelosTvis yvelaze kargi pozicia samxedro

neitralitetia, Tumca yofili saxalxo damcveli da cesko-s

yofili xelmZRvaneli gansxvavebulad fiqrobs. amis gamo nana

devdarians ar vkicxav. piriqiT, gadavwyvite, igive nei-

tralitetTan dakavSirebiT misi argumentebi momesmina da

interviuc amitom Cavwere. cxadia, imiTac davinteresdi, „pa-

triotebis” garda, proporciul siaSi Casma sxva romelime

partiamac xom ar SesTavaza?

„qronika+~ gTavazobT inter-

vius nana devdarianTan:

_ nana, ramdenimewliani pauzis

Semdeg politikaSi dabrundi. es

mosaloci ambavia?

_ politikaSi yofnas yovelTvis

ise vuyurebdi, rogorc movaleobas

da ara _ dResaswauls. amitom

ar vici, es mosaloci ambavia Tu

ara. sxvaTa Soris, Tavis droze,

roca sajaro samsaxuridan wamovedi,

maincdamainc ar midardia, radgan

uzarmazari wnexisgan gavTavisufldi,

Tumca arCevnebSi monawileoba

2012 welsac miviRe da _

2016-Sic. ubralod, es monawileoba

orivejer warumatebeli iyo.

ise, mTeli es wlebia, politologiuri

kvlevebiT var dakavebuli

da Senze kargad, mgoni, aravin icis,

rom sajaro politika, minimum, aqtiuri

konsultaciebisa da Tvalyuris

devnebis gareSe warmoudgenelia.

_ diax, asea, magram politol-

ogoba da arCevnebSi monawileoba,

dameTanxmebi, erTmaneTisgan gan-

sxvavebulia. hoda, imis gagebas

vcdilob, mxolod arCevnebis

dros ratom aqtiurdebi da

arCevnebidan _ arCevnebamde sazogadoebriv

Tu politikur avan-

scenaze ratom ar Cndebi xolme?

_ 2012-sa da 2016 wlebSi kenWi

ise viyare, rogorc upartio kandidatma.

sxvaTa Soris, partiis wevri

arc axla var. saerTod, simar-

Tle rom vTqva, partiaSi muSaoba

CemTvis maincdamainc momxiblavi

perspeqtiva araa. arada, am wlebis

ganmavlobaSi bevri kvleva Cavatare.

metic: „globaluri kvlevebis

centri”, romelsac vxelmZRvanelob,

praqtikulad, erTaderTi

arasamTavrobo organizaciaa, romelmac

saqarTvelos evrokavSirTan

asocirebis aTasze metgverdiani

xelSekruleba daamuSava, gaaanaliza

da saeqsperto daskvna dado. es

Zalian sainteresoa.

_ saintereso ratomaa?

_ ar SeiZleba, Tavi politikosad

mogqondes da im dokumentze

msjelobde, romelic wakiTxulic

ar gaqvs. Tu dokumenti wakiTxuli

ar gaqvs, keTili inebe da is

kvleva mainc waikiTxe, romelic

sxvam gaakeTa, magram Cvens politikaSi

xom sruli uvicobis tendenciaa

damkvidrebuli _ imaze

laparakoben, rac ar ician!

_ zemoxsenebuli dokumentis

gaanalizeba-Seswavla CemTvis, am

qveynis rigiTi moqalaqisa da

amomrCevlisTvis, mniSvnelovani

ratomaa?

_ es daskvna im adamianebisTvis

araa, romelTac politikuri sakiTxebi

maincdamainc Rrmad ar ainteresebT.

es daskvna ufro politikosebisTvis,

ekonomistebisa da

sajaro samsaxuris TanamSromlebisTvisaa

gankuTvnili, raTa mkafiod

icodnen, ra aris aRniSnuli

dokumenti, ra preferenciebs gva-

Zlevs is da ra gzas unda davadgeT?

sxvaTa Soris, am asocirebis

xelSekrulebis CarCoSi bevrad

metis gakeTeba SeiZleba, vidre

dRemde moxerxda. ar minda, vinmem

ise CaTvalos, rom biurokratiuli

gagebiT vambob, magram yvela

evropuli struqtura isea gawerili,

rom Tu misi damaxasiaTebeli

tendenciebi da Tvisebebi ar ici,

politikaSi sagareo politikis

kuTxiT ver imuSaveb.

_ vinaidan evrokavSirTan aso-

cirebis xelSekrulebas kargad

icnob, „patriotTa aliansSi”, mi-

uxedavad imisa, rom partiis wevri

ar xar, swored sagareo kuTxiT

imuSaveb?

_ sagareo kuTxiT partiis xelmZRvanelobas

sakuTari gegma

aqvs, romelsac nabij-nabij mihyveba.

ise, rom icode, kenWs im partiidan

ar viyridi, romelic Cems

msoflmxedvelobas ar eTanxmeba.

_ ukacravad, es ra SuaSia?

_ wlebia, vwer da vambob, rom

saqarTvelos neitraliteti sWirdeba.

es am qveynis erTaderTi xsnaa.

yovel SemTxvevaSi, im pirobeb-

Si, roca Cvens teritoriaze ori e.

w. kvazi damoukidebeli saxelmwifo

aRiares. mokled, am kuTxiT

Cveni Sexeduleba emTxveva, anu

rusebTan, osebsa da afxazebTan

nabijebi pirdapiri dialogiTaa

gadasadgmeli. ise, simarTle rom

vTqva, sityva „teritoriuli mTlianoba”

ar miyvars.

_ ratom?

_ gamodis, rom mxolod teritoriuli

mTlianoba gvainteresebs,

is xalxi ki, vinc iq cxovrobs

_ ara. Cemi azriT, termini _ „saqarTvelos

gamTlianeba” ukeTesia.

gasagebia, rom am globalurma pandemiam

dartyma yvelas miayena, magram

saqarTveloSi manamdec dux-

Wiri cxovreba iyo. albaT, gaxsovs

_ sabWoTa periodSi invalidebs

malavdnen, radgan maT janmrTeli

adamianebis fsiqika ar daerRviaT

da SeewuxebinaT. bednieri da kmayofili

var, rom me-20 saukunis 80-

iani wlebis meore naxevarSi, Cems

kolegasTan, Jurnalist nazi aroSiZesTan

erTad, pirveli viyavi,

vinc etlSi msxdom adamianebze

gadacema gavakeTe da es xalxi

dRis sinaTleze gamoviyvane.

_ nana, saqarTvelos er-

Tianobasa da neitralitetze

vsaubrobdiT da SSm pirebis Tema

amasTan ra kavSirSia?

_ axlac zustad iseTi viTarebaa,

rogorc am kuTxiT maSin iyo,

anu iseTi gaWirvebuli adamianebis

danaxva, romelTac puric ki

enatrebaT, aravis unda! warmoidgine,

rvasuliani ojaxia, eqvsi Svili

hyavs, ufaso sasadiloTi sargeblobs,

magram eqvs wlamde asakis

bavSvs arafers aZleven _ amaTi gagebiT,

eqvs wlamde bavSvi, Turme,

ar ikvebeba da am rvasulian ojaxs,

saerTo jamSi, pur-naxevars aZleven.

imaze aRarafers vambob, am ufaso

sasadiloebSi rogori xarisxis

sakvebia. sxvaTa Soris, pandemiis

dros yvelaze ganwirulebi bavSvebi

aRmoCndnen _ swavlas CamorCnen.

ra kompiuteri da ris interneti?

_ xalxs denic ki ar aqvs! adamianebi

ukarfanjro mitovebul SenobebSi

cxovroben! ai, odesRac

aSS-Si getoebi rom arsebobda,

daaxloebiT, es viTarebaa, magram

am adamianebs, ubralod, ar imCn-

nana devdariani:

even da gamgeobebic ki ar exmarebian,

arsad xarT registrirebulni

da ratom unda dagemaroTo?

_ yvelaferi es gasagebia, ma-

gram xalxs socialur-ekonomik-

uri pirobebis gaumjobesebas

TiTqmis yvela partia hpirdeba,

Tumca Sen arCevani maincdamainc

„patriotebze” gaakeTe. meubnebi,

rom Seni da „patriotebis” sagar-

eo xedvebi TanxvedraSia, Tumca

partiis wevri ki ar gaxdi, ubral-

od, saarCevno siaSi xar, anu eri-

debi, rom partiul disciplinasa

da koniunqturas daeqvemdebaro?

_ amdeni welia, micnob da kargad

ici, rom disciplina ar maklia.

sxvaTa Soris, „patriotebisgan” es

SemoTavazeba arcTu didi xnis win

miviRe, pativad CavTvale da siamovnebiT

davTanxmdi, Tumca imaze

saubari, partiaSi Seval Tu ara, ar

gvqonia. saerTod, 31 oqtombramde

imdeni brZola gvelodeba, rom es

Tema aravis gaaxsendeba. mere ki

vnaxoT...

_ „nacionalebs” siaSi Casma rom

SemoeTavazebinaT, gasagebia, rom

ar dasTanxmdebodi, Tumca

gasakviri arc es iqneboda, rad-

`yvela, vinc xmas òcnebas~ an `nacmoZraobas~

miscems, imisTvisac mzad unda iyos, rom

koaliciur mTavrobas miiRebs, rac niSnavs,

rom irakli kobaxiZe, mamuka mdinaraZe, giga

bokeria Tu gigi ugulava erTad iqnebian~

`kohabitacia

narnarad

koaliciur

mTavrobaSi

gadadis!~

gan igive kaxa oqriaSvili, romel-

ic guSin mgznebare „qoci” iyo,

dRes ukve „nacia”, anu „patriote-

bis” garda SemoTavazeba sxva par-

tiebisganac gqonda?

_ Rirsebaze fexis dabijebis

xarjze cxovrebisgan siamovnebas

verasodes miviReb, Torem problema

araferi iqneboda. 2003 wlis

arCevnebis Semdeg Tavisuflad SemeZlo,

rom cesko-Si davrCeniliyavi

_ Tavmjdomaris moxsnis meqanizmi

ar arsebobs, Tumca vTqvi,

Cemi aq darCena uTavmoyvareoba

iqneba-meTqi da wamovedi. mokled,

aris mTeli rigi partia, romelTanac,

dReis mdgomareobiT, kategoriulad

ar viTanamSromleb, Tumca

vinmes mimarT pirovnuli arc

boRma maqvs da arc _ wyena. aseTi

raRacebi ar maxasiaTebs. ise, Zalian

rTuli mosasmenia, roca, magaliTad,

giga bokeria ambobs, Cven

movalT da damnaSaveebs davsjiTo.

es xom sasaciloa?

_ sasacilo mxolod es ki ara,

bevri sxva ramecaa, magram konkre-

tulad mipasuxe: „ocnebas” rom

eTqva, Cveni siis axali saxe gax-

dio, dasTanxmdebodi?

_ mgonia, rom „ocneba” imTaviTve

araswor sakadro politikas

atarebs. ar vici, gaxsovs Tu ara,

magram, Tavis droze, anu 2012 wlis

dasawyisSi, „ocnebaSi” mivedi da

Zalian male wamovedi.

_ ratom wamoxvedi?

_ koaliciaSi Semavali partiebi

yvelafers akeTebdnen, rom biZina

ivaniSvils Tavisi partia ver

Seeqmna. pirveli oTxi weli „ocneba”

arsebobas swored ase, anu koaliciis

saxiT agrZelebda da partia

„qarTuli ocneba” ar iyo. mere,

albaT, mixvdnen, rom mTlad ase ar

SeiZleboda da garkveuli partiebi

_ respublikelebi Tu „Tavisufali

demokratebi” distanciaze

gauSves, magram amis miuxedavad,

davakvirdeT, parlamentSi ra moxda.

_ ra moxda?

_ sxvaTa Soris, Tavad „nacionalebi”

amboben, 2012-Si zogi „nacmoZraobidan”

„ocnebaSi” ise swrafad

gadabargda, rom fexsacmeli

wina kabinetSi darCao. es aisber-

10

10 N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.


rad gamomacxadebs!~

gis zedapiria da yvelaferi Cans,

magram aravin ambobs, „ocnebis”

raionul organizaciebSi ra xdeba

_ „nacionalebiT” gaivso da es ma-

Sin, roca is adamianebi, romlebic

Tavs wiravdnen da reJims upirispirdebodnen,

gareT datoves.

_ „patriotebi” didi xania, mianiSneben,

rom „ocnebam” xelisu-

fleba SesaZloa, bokerias gunds

gadaabaros. saubari Senc aqeTken

migyavs?

_ ar mgonia, rom xelisufleba

gadaabaros.

_ aba, ra ggonia?

_ „qarTuli ocnebis” elitis

erTi nawili da „nacmoZraobis”

ganayofebi imis Sesaxeb, koaliciur

mTavrobas visTan Seqmnian, Zalian

xSirad laparakoben. rogorc

Cans, yvelaferi aqeTken mihyavT,

anu kohabitacia koaliciur mTavrobaSi

narnarad gadadis! diax,

yvela, vinc xmas „ocnebas” an „nacmoZraobas”

miscems, imisTvisac

mzad unda iyos, rom koaliciur

mTavrobas miiRebs, rac niSnavs,

rom irakli kobaxiZe, mamuka mdinaraZe,

giga bokeria Tu gigi ugulava

erTad iqnebian. yvelaze cudi

scenari esaa, Torem xelisuflebis

gadabarebaze laparaki araa,

radgan xelisufleba aravis eTmoba

da yvela iZulebiT an ise da an

ase midis xolme. erTaderTi, rasac

orive Zala ambobs, isaa, rom „patriotTa

aliansTan” koalicias ar

Seqmnis, magram Tu aseTi aucilebloba

arCevnebis SedegebiT dadgeba,

iqneb, vinmem amixsnas, ra jiutobaa,

ar Sevqmni da ar Sevqmnio?!

_ sxvaTa Soris, politikur

kuluarebSi aseTi varaudi musirebs,

Tu ise moxda, rom 31 oqtombris

Semdeg „ocnebam” sapar-

lamento umravlesoba ver Seqmna,

amaSi „patriotebi” daexmarebian,

anu „ocneba” da „patriotebi” koaliciur

saparlamento gunds Se-

qmnian da ministrTa kabinetsac

erTad daakopleqtebeno. am sce-

narze ra azris xar, nana?

_ es varaudia da Zalian ar momwons,

roca eqspertTa nawili

zepir varauds gamoTqvams. gamoricxuli

araferia, magram yvelaferi,

razedac axla vsaubrobT,

arCevnebis SedegebTanaa dakavSirebuli.

vinme vinmesTan koalicias

zepirad ar qmnis. ai, magaliTad, gavixsenoT

germaniis gamocdileba _

ioSka fiSeri, romelic „mwvaneebidan”

iyo, ministri mxolod imitom

gaxda, misi fraqciis mxardaWeris

gareSe, mmarTveli partia

mTavrobas ver akompleqtebda.

_ vTqvaT, ise moxda, rom „pa-

triotTa aliansma”, Tundac igive

mTavrobis damtkicebis mizniT,

„ocnebas” an opoziciur gaer-

Tianebebs koalicia Seuqmna. Seni,

rogorc parlamentSi am partiis

siiT Sesuli deputatis pozicia

rogori iqneba?

_ „nacionaluri moZraoba” da

„evronacebi” amTaviTve gamoricxe

_ „patriotTa aliansi” maTTan

koaliciur garigebaze arasodes

wava!

_ „ocnebasTan”?

_ ucnauri arCevnebi gvelis _

parlamentSi bevri partia Sesa-

Zloa, TiTo an ori mandatiT Sevides

da „ocneba” zustad maT daeyrdnos.

mokled, es landSafti ar-

CevnebiT unda dalagdes, Tan mar-

`wlebia, vwer da vambob, rom saqarTvelos neitraliteti sWirdeba. es am

qveynis erTaderTi xsnaa. yovel SemTxvevaSi, im pirobebSi, roca Cvens

teritoriaze ori e. w. kvazi damoukidebeli saxelmwifo aRiares. mokled, am

kuTxiT Cveni Sexeduleba emTxveva, anu rusebTan, osebsa da afxazebTan

nabijebi pirdapiri dialogiTaa gadasadgmeli~

to partiul kuTvnilebas ki ara,

imasac aqvs mniSvneloba, mmarTveli

Zala ministrobis kandidatebad

vis daasaxelebs. saerTod, ar

SeiZleba, mTavroba „lebed, rak da

SukasaviT” iyos _ yvela Tavisken

rom eqaCeba.

_ geTanxmebi, Tumca gaiTval-

iswine, rom premierobis, minimum,

ori kandidati cnobilia, anu „na-

cionalebi” am TanamdebobisTvis

mixeil saakaSvils amzadeben,

„strategia aRmaSenebeli” ki _

giorgi vaSaZes. premierobis sak-

uTari kandidati „patriotTa

alianssac” eyoleba?

_ am etapze es Zalian araseriozuli

gancxadebaa.

_ ratom?

_ yvela da, maT Soris, im kvleviTac,

romelic maTi dakveTiTaa

Catarebuli, saakaSvils premierobis

kandidatad dasaxeleba namdvilad

ar emuqreba. vaSaZes ki, saer-

Tod, saTvalavSic ar miviCnev. premieri

rogor unda gaxdes? _ e. i.,

„qarTul ocnebas” yvelam unda mougos,

mere, am yvelam Tqvas, aravin

var da premieri vaSaZe-juniori

gaxdeso. yvela xvdeba, rom es marazmia!

_ nana, iqiTken ixrebi, rom „ocneba”

xelisuflebaSi mesame vadi-

Tac darCeba?

_ ara, arafrisken vixrebi. ubralod,

Cveni kvleviT suraTi gansxvavebulia.

saerTod, is, vinc

arCevnebamde Tve-naxevriT ambobs,

ase da ise iqnebao an manipulatoria,

an _ aferisti! xSirad yofila,

rom arCevnebamde erTi kviriT

adre iseTi ram momxdara, rasac

yvelaferi Tavdayira dauyenebia.

ise, 2012 wels saakaSvils egona,

rom xelisuflebaSi darCeboda...

mokled, imaze fiqriT aravin

aTenebs da aRamebs, ai, unda wavide

da xelisufleba vis gadavabaroo.

yvelafers situacia qmnis.

_ nana, saqarTveloSi nei-

tralitetis moTxovna prorusul

ideologiad miiCneva. swored am

da sxva faqtorebis gaTval-

iswinebiT, „patriotTa alianss”

prorusuli imiji aqvs. hoda,

roca am partias proporciul

siaSi Caweraze dasTanxmdi, imaze

ar ifiqre, vaime, mec prorusad ar

gamomacxadono?

_ ar mainteresebs, vin rad gamomacxadebs,

miT umetes, roca is,

vinc macxadebs, sruliad ua-

`saakaSvils premierobis kandidatad

dasaxeleba namdvilad ar emuqreba. vaSaZes ki,

saerTod, saTvalavSic ar miviCnev. premieri

rogor unda gaxdes? - e. i., `qarTul ocnebas~

yvelam unda mougos, mere, am yvelam Tqvas,

aravin var da premieri vaSaZe-juniori

gaxdeso. yvela xvdeba, rom es marazmia!~

vtoritetoa! im asakidan gamovedi,

rom fexis xmas avyve da Tavi vinmes

movawono. simarTle rom vTqva,

ymawvilqalobaSic ar vyofilvar

imaze momarTuli, ai, yvelas movewono-meTqi.

rac Seexeba iarliyis

mowebebas, Tavis droze ecadnen,

moewebebinaT, rom TiTqos arCevnebi

gavayalbe, magram aqedan ra

gamouvidaT? _ araferi! dResac ki,

roca arCevnebis gayalbebaze

laparakoben, pirveli, vinc yvelas

axsendeba, xaTuna gogoriSvilia!

mokled, iarliyebis mikereba

politikuri teqnologiaa, romelsac

karga xania, yavli gauvida da

mxolod mSiSara adamianebze moqmedebs!

Cven ki mSiSrebi ar varT!

is ki ar unda vakeToT, rac sxvas

moewoneba, aramed is, rac Cveni

qveynisTvis iqneba kargi!

_ ise, 2012 wels „patriotTa

aliansma” qveyanaSi politikuri

realoba Secvala.

_ diax, Tumca maSin, rogorc

partia, ar arsebobda da winaaRmdegobis

moZraoba iyo.

_ magram am winaaRmdegobis

moZraobis saTaveebTan swored

„patriotTa” axlandeli liderebi

idgnen. 2016 wels Tarxan-

mouravisa da inaSvilis tandemma

politikaSi kidev erTi cvlileba

Seitana _ axlad Seqmnilma par-

tiam saarCevno barieri gadalaxa

da parlamentSi Sevida. am gundis-

gan saarCevno siurprizebs welsac

unda velodoT?

_ danamdvilebiT ver vityvi,

Tumca im faqtidan gamovdivar,

romelic Cven Tvalwin axlaxan

moxda _ irma inaSvili afxazeTSi

gadavida da iloris taZarSi xati

daabrZana. amaze cudi ambavi atexes,

magram ici, ra moxda?

_ ra?

_ am Tavdasxmam „patriotTa

aliansis” mxardamWerebi gazarda.

sxvaTa Soris, 2002-2003 wlebSi

galSi araerTxel gadavedi, Tumca

maSin politikuri moRvawe ki ara,

saxalxo damcveli viyavi. RmerTma

acxonos ruslan qiSmaria _ Zalian

kargad damxvda da humanitaruli

tvirTi mxolod qarTvelebisTvis

ar Sevitane, anu vuTxari, qarTvelebsa

da afxazebs Tanabrad gaunawile-meTqi.

mokled, raki afxazeTSi Sen ver

Sedixar da veravis elaparakebi, es

imas xom ar niSnavs, rom yvelam

gulze xeli daikrifos? warmoidgine,

aseTi ram somxeTis SemTxvevaSi

rom momxdariyo, anu romelime

somex politikoss aseTi aqti

ganexorcielebina da yarabaRSi Sesuliyo,

mTeli somxeTi, partiulobis

miuxedavad, erT muStad

Seikreboda da aRtacebas gamoxatavda.

qarTvelebs es ra gvWirs? _

politikosi qali Tavisi qveynis

teritoriaze Sevida. sxvaTa Soris,

yvelas, visac saomar moqmedebebSi

monawileoba ar miuRia, gadasvla

da gadmosvla Tavisuflad Seu-

Zlia, magram TviTon arafris gamkeTeblebi

arian da is, vinc Serigebisken

erTi nabiji gadadga, sZulT!

_ sxvaTa Soris, inaSvilis

ilorSi Casvlas Tavad afxazebi-

sgan cudi reaqcia mohyva _ xati

daabrunes.

_ cudi reaqcia ar mohyolia.

ubralod, rogorc CvenTan, iqac

arian adamianebi, e. w. fsevdoliberalebi.

am adamianebs „iqaur bokeriebs”

veZaxi. hoda, es ambavi swored

maT atexes, Torem igive internetSi

besarion aplias satelefono

saubari gavrcelda, romelic

axla afxazuri eklesiis winamZ-

Rolad iTvleba da swored is ambobs,

xati eklesiaSia dabrZanebuli

da masTan ra xeli gaqvTo. es

fsevdoliberalebi ki pasuxoben,

xati politikosebma Camoitanes da

politikosebi gavitanTo, anu eklesiis

cxovrebaSi uxeSad Caerivnen.

doroTeos dbarma, romelic

axali aTonis arqimandritia da

apliasTan ganxeTqilebaSia, igive

Tqva, _ xatis ukan dabruneba

rogor SeiZleba, miT umetes, rom

istoriulad ilori mxolod afxazeTis

ki ara, sruliad dasavleT

saqarTvelos siwmindeao. erTia,

Cveni masmedia, gansakuTrebiT

televizia ras tiraJirebs da meorea

realoba _ am ambavze afxazeT-

Si Zalian winaaRmdegobrivi damokidebuleba

iyo!

_ bolos, nana, miSas ras

daavalebdi?

_ is, rac evaleboda, Tavis

droze ki ar gaakeTa, aramed gaafu-

Wa. amitom miSas arafers davavaleb

da vecdebi, is problemebi, romlis

winaSec Cveni saxelmwifo da xalxi

dgas, Cemi SesaZleblobebis farglebSi,

Tavad movagvaro!

_ ise, „patriotebi” ratom

fiqrobT, rom arCevnebSi Tqveni

gamarjveba saqarTvelos TiToeuli

moqalaqisa da, saerTod, qvey-

nis gamarjveba iqneba?

_ dRes Zalian bevri adamiani

Tavs sruliad gariyulad grZnobs,

anu hgonia, rom saxelmwifo

calkea, TviTon ki _ calke. am adamianebs

aravin arafers ekiTxeba

da arc ukeTebs. arada, mTeli es

kriala saarCevno suraTebi, rasac

xalxi xedavs, maT cxovrebasTan

kavSirSi araa. mokled, gamarjvebiT

Cven am gakrialebul-gaprialebuli

plakatebis nawilebi ki

ar gavxdebiT, aramed Cveni gamarjveba

TiToeuli adamianis gamarjveba

iqneba, radgan yvelaferi

misTvis gakeTdeba. am rva wlis ganmavlobaSi

xalxisTvis saqmis gakeTeba

problema namdvilad ar

iyo, magram saamisod politikuri

nebaa saWiro. zogs politikaSi yofna

komforti hgonia, magram amaze

didi daZabuloba, diskomforti

da daRla ar arsebobs!

N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.

11


ras hpirdeba èvropuli saqarTvelo~

winasaarCevnod kaxelebs?

maka mosiaSvili

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„qronika+~ esaubreba axmeta-

Telavi-yvareli-lagodexis ma-

Joritarobis kandidats „evropuli

saqarTvelodan”, zurab Wiab-

eraSvils:

_ pirdapir Tqven mier Se-

muSavebul gegmaze gkiTxavT: ra

aris zurab WiaberaSvilis formu-

la, romliTac gvpirdebiT, rom

Cveni cxovreba Seicvleba da kar-

gad viqnebiT?

- diax, „evropul saqarTvelos”

gegma ukve SemuSavebuli aqvs. meti

pasuxismgebloba rom gvqondes sazogadoebis

mimarT, Cveni gegma

konkretul raodenobriv monacemebs

Seicavs. kerZod, gegmis mixedviT,

kaxeTSi 3300-ze meti axali

samuSao adgili Seiqmneba, 8700-ze

met ojaxs gamoviyvanT siRaribidan,

60 000 aTasze met adamians

davufinansebT saWiro medikamentebs,

sabolood, „evropuli saqar-

Tvelo” moagvarebs wyalmomaragebis

problemas regionSi. Cven unda

SevamciroT aqcizi sawvavze, rac

gaaiafebs benzinsa da dizels. am

qveynaSi pensia unda gaormagdes. es

ar aris mxolod cifrebi, es aris

programa, romelic gawerilia

Cvens samoqmedo gegmaSi.

- me, rogorc am municipalitetis

amomrCevelma, rom gkiTxoT,

ra gaakeTa bolo 4 wlis man-

Zilze zurab WiaberaSvilma par-

lamentSi, ras mipasuxebT?

_ ra gavakeTe? „evropulma saqarTvelom”

bolo 4 wlis ganmavlobaSi

xalxis cxovrebis gaumjobesebaze

mimarTuli 40-ze meti kanonproeqti

da winadadeba waradgina

parlamentSi. nawilis avtori me

viyavi. moviTxoveT sawvavze aqcizis

Semcireba, soflad moZravi

avtomanqanebis (romlebic magistralze

ar gadadian) teqnikuri

daTvalierebisgan ganTavisufleba,

saSemosavlo gadasaxadis Semcireba,

rom yovel 100 larze moqalaqe

20 laris nacvlad mxolod

15 lariT ibegrebodes. parlaments

warvudgineT dagrovebiTi pensiis

alternatiuli sqema, rom adamianma

Tavad gadawyvitos, rogor daagrovos

danazogi. me da daviT

baqraZes moTxovna gvqonda pensiis

gazrdis Taobaze, ramac mTavroba

aiZula, Tundac mcirediT gaezarda

pensia.

_ dRes ras hpirdebiT amom-

rCevels? kaxel glexs?

_ Cven xSirad gveubnebian, glexi

kacisTvis aravin ariso. fraza

„glexi kacisTvis aravin aris” awyobs

mxolod biZina ivaniSvils,

radgan es nergavs azrs, rom

mTavrobis Secvlas azri ar aqvs.

amitom kaxel glexs vpirdebi, rom

soflebs gadavcemT saxelmwifo

sakuTrebaSi darCenil miwebs, sa-

Zovrebsa da tyeebs. radgan xalxma

Tavad mouaros mas da Cinovnikebis

mier xalxis sakuTrebis miTviseba

aRikveTos.

- ramdenad mniSvnelovani da

nacnobia qalaq Telavis tkivili

zurab WiaberaSvilisTvis?

zurab WiaberaSvili:

`kaxel glexs

vpirdebi, rom

soflebs gadavcemT

saxelmwifo

sakuTrebaSi

darCenil miwebs,

saZovrebsa da tyeebs~

_ Telavis TviTmmarTveli

qalaqis statusis dakargva Telavelebis

tkivilia! Telavs TviTmmarTveli

qalaqis statusi daubrundeba.

Tavis droze, rodesac

„qarTulma ocnebam” es statusi

ramdenime qalaqs mianiWa, am nabijs

mivesalme. Tumca maSinve vafrTxilebdi

xelisuflebas, rom statuss

unda mohyoloda meti finansuri

resursi da avtonomia kompetenciebSi,

rom TviTmmarTveloba

realuri yofiliyo. swored finansuri

motivebiT, „qarTulma ocnebam”

isev gaauqma es statusi.

Telavsac da sxva qalaqebsac

statusi aRudgeba, mxolod mkafiod

gaimijneba centralur da

adgilobriv xelisuflebebs Soris

kompetenciebi. TviTmmarTveli

qalaqebis kompetenciebi gafar-

Tovdeba da Zalian bevri momsaxureba

da saqme, rac uSualod ukav-

Sirdeba moqalaqeebis cxovrebas,

adgilobrivad gadawydeba.

- daRlili WiaberaSvili kaxe-

Tis romel mxares arCevda dasas-

veneblad?

- kaxeTi SromisaTvis Seuqmnia

RmerTs, amas ki keTildReoba da

bedniereba unda mosdevdes. amave

dros, mgonia, rom kaxeTi saukeTesoa

dasvenebis mxrivac. uklebliv

yvela raions Tavisi gamorCeuli

xibli aqvs. ar unda dagvaviwydes

pankisis xeoba am mxaris margaliti.

aqve aucileblad unda vTqva is

damokidebuleba, rac „qarTuli

ocnebis” mTavrobas pankisis xeoba-

Si mcxovrebi Cveni qisti da-Zmebis

mimarT aqvs, _ CemTvis es miuRebelia.

gansxvavebuli eTnikuri warmoSoba

ar unda iyos safuZveli

mTavrobisTvis, rom saqarTvelos

moqalaqeTa romelime jgufi meorexarisxovnad

miiCnios da adgilobrivi

problemebi sruliad ugulebelyos.

dRes amas vxedavT.

xval ase aRar iqneba. qistebi

saqarTvelos patrioti xalxia da

xeobis ekonomikuri ganviTareba

mas saSualebas miscems, TavianTi

Sroma da energia qveynis aRm-

Seneblobas moaxmaros da Tavadac

ukeTesi pirobebi SeeqmnaT keTildReobis

misaRwevad.

_ WiaberaSvilis lagodexi

rogoria?

_ lagodexi marTlac unikaluri

adgilia. mravalferovneba

am kuTxis ZiriTadi maxasiaTebelia

da simdidrea, Tu mTavroba

xalxis samsaxurSi dgas. municipalitetis

ganviTarebaSi es xalxi

`me da daviT baqraZes moTxovna

gvqonda pensiis gazrdis Taobaze,

ramac mTavroba aiZula, Tundac

mcirediT gaezarda pensia~

aqtiurad unda monawileobdes.

meti resursi unda CavdoT aq. momdevno

mTavrobas unda axsovdes,

rom lagodexi sxvadasxva qveyanaSi

warsadgeni diplomatebis samWedloa.

_ ratom?

_ ginaxavT raioni, sadac amdeni

erovnuli Semadgenlobaa? qarTvelebi,

osebi, ukrainelebi, rusebi,

ebraelebi, polonelebi, somxebi,

germanelebi, azerbaijanelebi _

arc arsad! kulturuli da kuTxur-eTnikuri

mravalferovneba lagodexisa

da saqarTvelos simdidrea.

kaxeTis madliani miwa Sesa-

Zleblobas gvaZlevs, es mxare

ekonomikurad da kulturulad

dawinaurdes. unda gaixsnas sakonservo

sawarmoebi, Rvinis marnebi.

es ki Seqmnis moTxovnas adgilobrivebis

mier moyvanil produqciaze,

kaxelebis Sroma dafasdeba,

gaizrdeba ojaxebis Semosavali.

_ soflis meurneoba da misi

ganviTareba kaxeTisTvis mniS-

vnelovania. ra gavlena SeiZleba

moaxdinos kargad dagegmilma

politikam am sferoSi?

_ maRalganviTarebul, warmatebul

qveynebSi, sadac soflis meurneoba

tradiciaa, turizmi da soflis

meurneoba erTmaneTzea gadajaWvuli.

mTeli safrangeTi

„Rvinis gzebiTaa” daqseleli, sadac

aTasobiT patara, ojaxur maranSi

yovelwliurad milionobiT

turisti Cadis da mSromel adamians

Tavisi naoflaris gayidvis

problema moxsnili aqvs. Sveicariuli

yvelis tradiciuli warmoebis

adgilebs aseve milionobiT

ucxoeli stumrobs da swored isini

asaReben am sayovelTaod cnobil

produqcias. CvenTan problemis

saTave finansebze, iaf kreditze

xelmisawvdomobaa. visac venaxi

aqvs, Tanxa ar hyofnis, Tavisi

patara marani gamarTos da yovelwliurad

yurZnis Cabarebaze ar

iyos damokidebuli. Tavis mxriv,

marani rom gamarTos, glexs garantia

sWirdeba, rom boTlSi

Camosxmul Rvinos adgilzec gayidis

turistze iqneba es Tbilisidan

Camosuli qarTveli, Tu ucxoeTidan

Semosuli sxva qveynis

moqalaqe da ucxoeTSic gaitans.

_ mxolod soflis meurneobaa

saqarTvelos ganviTarebis veq-

tori?

_ kaxeTSi Ziri mainc soflis

meurneobaa. es ar gulisxmobs, rom

teqnologiebis ganviTarebaze qveyanam

uari unda Tqvas, _ teqnologiebi

unda mivides saqarTvelos

yvela moqalaqemde. erTmaneTs ar

upirspirdeba, teqnologiuri ganviTareba

da soflis meurneoba.

Zvelebs uTqvamT: „Tafli iyos

da buzi baRdadidan movao”. mTavaria,

soflis meurneoba idges myarad

fexze. amas sWirdeba finansebi,

teqnologiebi, kreditebi. oRond

kredits aiafebs ekonomikuri zrda.

is ekonomikuri zrda, rac „qar-

Tuli ocnebis” pirobebSia, kredits

aZvirebs da xels uSlis imas,

rom glexi myarad dadges fexze da

Tanamedrove standartebis fermeruli

meurneobebi Seqmnas.

12

12 N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.

rezo SatakiSvili

597 94 42 50

saqarTvelo qveyanaa, sadac tyuili,

SeTxzuli da viRacis monayoli ufro sjeraT, vidre simarTle,

vidre is, rac sakuTari TvaliT naxes, rasac xedaven... albaT

amitomacaa, rom am qveyanaSi folklori: zRaprebi, Tqmule-

bebi, ufro Semonaxulia, vidre am qveynis namdvili istoria...

Cveni xasiaTis es Tavisebureba

kargad ician rusul specsamsaxurebSi

da swored misi gamoyenebiT

gvebrZvian ase warmatebiT. Tavad

gansajeT, am qveyanaSi ufro iolad

ijereben imas, rac ufro daujerebelia.

arasodes ijereben imas,

rac zedapirze Zevs, rac dResaviT

naTelia, rac cxadze cxadia.

mavani metyvis, rom es yvelaferi

WeSmaritebis maZiebeli xasiaTidan

modis, rom qarTveli eWvis

TvaliT uyurebs yvelafers, eZieba,

ekirkiteba da xSirad amitomac

ar ijerebs iolad simarTles, WeSmaritebasac

ki. mec siamovnebiT gavyvebodi

amgvar msjelobas, es oxeri

faqtebi rom ar miSlides xels.

aba, faqtebi? ai, is ambebi, rac

am bolo wlebSi vrceldeboda da

romelsac momentalurad ijerebda

Cveni sazogadoebis umravlesoba

an awyobda dajereba da ijerebda

_ Tavs ityuebda. mokled,

atyuebdnen an Tavs ityuebdnen.

yvelaze mkafiod es cocxebis

isterikisas gamoCnda. yvelaze masobrivad

swored es binZuri zRapari

„Toxla” qarTulma sazogadoebam.

ise „Toxles” da daijeres,

rom wamiT eWvic ki ar SeutaniaT,

sxva rameSi Tu ara, imaSi mainc Ses-

Zlebda Tu ara cocxgayrili adamiani

musaifis gabmas... TavSi am

erTi oboli kiTxvis gaCenac ki sakmarisi

iyo imisTvis, rom mimxvdariyvnen,

rasTan hqondaT saqme.

manamde ki aseve daijeres mar-

Tlac zRapris siuJeti, rom Turme

baCo axalaias „balkonze” mgeli

hyavda da patimrebis xorciT kvebavda.

dezertirebis bazrdidan ki

ar ezideboda xorcs, ara, cixeebSi

patimrebs xocavda da imaT xorcs

aWmevda.

aravis gauCnda kiTxva, _ ki magram,

ratom didi ezoiani saxli ar

iyida mglisTvis baCo axalaiam an

im SeWmuli patimrebis amdeni patroni

sad iyo, ratom dumda? eSinodaT?

moica, yvelas eSinoda da

girgvlianis, vazagaSvilis, robaqiZis

mSoblebs ara? ratom erTi

SvilSeWmuli patimris deda mainc

ar mivida im televiziebSi, romlebic

im xelisuflebas ebrZodnen?

an gazeTSi mainc? gazeTebis

umetesoba swored im xelisuflebas

utevda.

igive logikiT, sad iyvnen „gaupatiurebuli

vaSkacebi”? 26 aTasmave

dumili arCia? dumilSi iyo

maTi „vaSkacobis” arsi da sasoeba?

an roca am miTs ijerebda qarTveli,

kiTxva mainc ar daebada, _ vin

aupatiurebda am 26 aTass? rogorc

Cans, erTi daaeWva da xelad

zRapars zRapari SeaSvela _ da

gaCnda versia „dreliT gaupatiurebis”

Sesaxeb...

aRarafers vambob imaze, rom

sandra rulovsi TirkmlebiT movaWred

hyavdaT gamoyvanili, romelic

piradad dadioda cixeebSi

„niWierSi” gamosul momReral amalia

jiblaZisgan „naTxuari” „kleCati”

lilos „sumkiT”, aWridnen patimrebs

Tirkmlebs, gamohqonda

ase „sumkiT” da hyidda. ijerebdnen

am binZur zrapars da arc kiTxulobdnen,

gamoadgeboda Tu ara

vinmes ase kustarulad amoWrili,

N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.


Tanac _ mkvdrisgan da „sumkiT”

naTrevi Tirkmlebi. metic: is martivi

kiTxvac ar ebadebodaT, am

yvelafers ratom ar akeTebda sandra

sxvisi xeliT?

iyo da ara iyo ra,

iyo erTi qveyana...

Semdeg eSxSi Sevidnen da isic

daijeres, rom sandra saSvilosnoebs

aclida qalebs da yidda. am

zRapars ise ijerebdnen, gugls

erTs ar ekiTxebodnen, xdeba ki

saSvilosnos gadanergva saerTod,

anu hyavs ki muStari amoclil saSvilosnos?

mokled, rac ufro daujerebelia

ambavi, aq ufro ijereben da

ar ijereben imas, rasac Tavisi

TvaliT xedaven.

swored es xdeba axla koronavirusis

gavrcelebasTan dakavSirebiT.

Tavidanve iyo xalxi, visac

saerTod ar sjeroda am virusis

arseboba. zogs sjeroda, rom es

virusi sadRac laboratoriaSi Seqmnes

da gaavrceles. viRacas virusis

arseboba sjeroda, magram morig

gripad ganixilavda da ar swamda

misi masStabebis. yvelaze Seuvali

nawili mainc is iyo, romelsac

saerTod ar swamda am virusis

arseboba da maT rom hkiTxo, es saerTaSoriso

blefia, mafiaa. Tavidan,

sanam korona Tavis savalalo

Sedegebs dagvanaxvebda mTel

msoflioSi, amgvari damokidebulebi,

ase Tu ise, mainc asatani iyo,

fiqrobdi, rom xalxs Sedegebi ar

enaxa da ar sjeroda, ar undoda

imis dajereba, rac aravisTvis sasurveli

ar iyo. Semdeg gaxldaT

saSineli Sedegebi sazRvargareT

da erTob laiTi suraTi aq. Semdeg

imas CaeWidnen, rom aranairi korona

ar iyo, magram maT arc bolo

dReebSi gauaresebulma statistikam

uSvela!

lamis 200-mde axali inficirebuli

emateba yoveldRe da sazogadoebis

msuye nawili mainc jiutad

amtkicebs, rom aranairi korona

araa. Tu adre gvimtkicebdnen, rom

msoflio SeTqmuleba iyo, biznesebis

CasaZirad, qveynebis gasanadgureblad,

xalxis gasawyvetad da

a. S. axla am yvelaferma saarCevno

kudi gamoiba, dganan da gimtkiceben,

rom es arCevnebisTvis awyobT.

anu korona araa da igoneben, rom

koronaa. ise Sors Setopes, rom

koviddadasturebul pirebs umtkiceben,

_ korona ar aris, gatyuebeno

da zogs ki urcxvad fulis

aRebaSi adanaSauleben, _ fuli

aiRe da tyuilad wevxar mand,

araferic gWirso.

maT Tvalwin xalxi avaddeba,

maT mainc ar sjeraT da jiutad

amtkiceben, rom aranairi korona

ar arsebobs, rom am mTavrobas awyobs

es regulaciebi, es SezRudvebi

da a. S.

TavisTavad cxadia, araferia

aralegitimuri imaSi, rom mTel am

procesSi eWvi Seitano mTavrobis

keTilsindisierebaSi, gnebavT,

cifrebiT manipulaciaSic ki! gagi-

Cndes kiTxva, ratom gaxsnes ase

„upragonod” yvelaferi, ratom

miuSves situacia, Tundac dawesebuli

reguaciebis kontroli ratom

moadunes? xom yvelam viciT,

rom mxolod TbilisSi, isic avtobusebSi

kontroldeboda da kontroldeba

igive pirbadis tareba,

samarSrutoebSi ki yvela mZRols

sul kudusunze axatia, pirbade

gikeTia Tu Calma. yvelanairi kontroli

iyo moSlili Tbilisidan

raionebSi mimaval „marSrutkebSi”,

aRarafers vambob raionebSi. Termoskrinings

rac Seexeba, Tavidan

gulmodgined daiwyes sicxis zomva,

Semdeg mazoliani TiTiviT gad-

ebdnen xSirad batarea damjdar

sazoms, romc daumjdari yofiliyo,

xSiri iyo SemTxveva, gizomavda

sicxes da zed arcRa uyurebda.

mokled, faqti saxeze iyo, rom

kontroli miuSves, rac sinqronuli

aRmoCnda xalxis yuradRebis

modunebasTanac. xalxic daiRala

daZabulobisgan, Znelia gafacicebiT,

TiTiswverebze cxovreba.

modunda xalxic, rasac hqvia, aiSva.

zustad ise gamocvivdnen da

moednen qveyanas, rogorc zamTar-

Si bagaze dabmuli xborebi akeTeben,

roca gazafxulze nedli balaxis

suni SeuRitinebT drunCebSi

da patronebic gareT gamouSveben...

mokled, araferi ucnauri araa

imaSi, dagaeWvos xelisuflebis

qmedebam, jer mkacrma kontrolma

da Semdeg ase miSvebam da bolos

am Sedegma _ yoveldRiurad 200-

mde inficirebulma. gagiCndes eWvi,

rom xom ar awyobs xelisuflebas

bevri inficirebuli imisTvis, rom

moizidos da xeli moiTbos saer-

TaSoriso daxmarebiT an imisTvis,

rom rac SeiZleba datvirTos is

sastumroebi, romelTa ukanac

swored xelisuflebis warmomadgenelebi

dganan?..

gagiCndes eWvi, rom xelisuflebam

specialurad miuSva situacia,

rom Semdeg suraTi ase damZimebuliyo,

romelsac gamoiyenebda arCevnebze

saerTaSoriso damkvirveblebis

dasafrTxobad? an Tavad

amomrCevlis dasafrTxobadac. xom

yvelam viciT, rom maRali aqtivoba

safrTxes uqmnis nebismier xelisuflebas...

mokled, erTia es legitimuri

eWvebi da meorea imis mtkiceba,

rom „aranairi korona ar arsebobs”.

Tavis mxriv, es problemis gadaWris

yvelaze ufro infantiluri

gzaa _ amtkico imis ararseboba,

risic geSinia. Tu ase gauties,

igive xalxi imis mtkicebasac daiwyebs,

rom korona ki ara, saerTod

sikvdilic ar arsebobs.

am gatevamde ki sxva mxares gauties.

jer horizontzec ar Cans

vaqcina da ukve sayovelTao vaqcinacias

ebrZvian. Turme, nu ityviT

da aranairi korona araa, es xelisufleba

igonebs imisTvis, rom mere

vaqcina gagvikeTon da dagvCipon.

viRacebi avrceleben mTel arzebs,

Tu romel konvencias ewinaaRmdegeba

es sayovelTao vaqcinacia,

Tu rogor daarRvevs iZulebiT

vaqcinaciaSi monawile Ti-

Toeuli eqimi medikosTa saerTa-

Soriso asociaciis mier miRebul

Jenevis deklaracias, rom „koronas

sawinaaRmdego vaqcinacia” iqneba

genuri Terapia, romelsac krZalavs

„niurnbergis kodeqsi”; sxva

kidev ufro Sors wavida da gvamcno,

rom swored am vaqcinaciis

dros dagvCipaven... ukve aqciac

gaimarTa parlamentTan, sadac

ebrZvian regulaciebs, pirbadeebs,

sayovelTao vaqcinacias...

ostaturad xveven Tavis badeSi

maT, visac mobezrda pirbadis

tareba da SezRudvebi.

kidev erTxel vambob: ki ar dadgebian

da regulaciebs ki ar gaaprotesteben,

ama Tu im gaumarTlebeli,

usafuZvlo, xanac uazro

SezRudvis moxsnas ki ar moiTxoven,

dganan da amtkiceben, rom korona

saerTod ar arsebobs da metic,

qarTlis dedisgan naTxuari

xmliT ebrZvian vaqcinacias da ra

dros? roca es vaqcina horizontzec

ar Cans...

mokled, iyo da ara iyo ra. iyo

erTi qveyana _ saqarTvelo, sadac

gamonagons, SeTxzuls ufro iolad

ijerebden, vidre imas, rasac

sakuTari TvaliT xedavdnen...

13


`gveSinia, rom satelit

nene injgia

„SaqaraSvilis saqmeze” braldebuli

moragbeebis advokati, al-

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riT xsniT Tqvens politikaSi

CarTvas?

_ ukve sami welia, rac „xalxis

partiis” Tavmjdomare var.

Cemi politikuri saqmianoba Cemi

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ar viyo, ramdenadac sxva politikosebi

arian, aqedan gamomdinare,

sazogadoebis nawils, SesaZloa,

uCndeba gancda, rom me axla

„SaqaraSvilis saqmis” Semdeg

gadavwyvite politikaSi CarTva.

es, ra Tqma unda, ase ar aris. didi

xania, rac politikaSi var

CarTuli da wina adgilobrivi

TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebSic

miviRe monawileoba, aseve rusTavSi

meris arCevnebSi vmonawileobdi.

aqtiuri politikuri cxovrebiT

vcxovrob. Cems politikur

miznebTan erTad maqvs

profesiac _ es aris saadvokato

saqmianoba.

_ Tqven axseneT politikuri

mizani, ra aris 2020 wlis sapar-

lamento arCevnebze Tqveni

politikuri mizani?

_ Cemi politikuri mizania,

rom saparlamento arCevnebis

Semdeg 150 deputat Soris erTerTi

mec viyo, imitom, rom Cemi

xedvebi maqvs. aRvniSnav imasac,

rom titanuri azrebi ar mawuxebs,

rom umravlesobiT moval

xelisuflebaSi Cems gundTan er-

Tad, _ am mocemulobiT vici,

rom, samwuxarod, es ararealuria.

minda, pirvel etapze, SevZlo

2020 wels saparlamento arCvenebis

Sedegad parlamentaris

mandati movipovo. Tu es movaxerxe,

marTlmsajulebis sakiTxi

iqneba Tu socialur-ekonomikuri,

mTeli rigi mosazrebebi

maqvs, romelzedac vimuSaveb.

vfiqrob, am mimarTulebebiT arc

dRevandel da arc wina xelisuflebas

ar gaukeTebia raime sasargeblo.

me Tu momeca SesaZlebloba,

aucileblad gavakeTeb.

_ Tqvenma partiam zogierT

maJoritarul olqSi ar daayena

kandidatebi da mxari dauWira

„qarTuli ocnebis” kandidats.

Tu gazomeT riskebi, ra SeiZleba

gamoiwvios ndobis TvalsazrisiT

Tqvenma gadawyvetile-

bam Tqvens mxardamWerebsa da

amomrCevlebSi?

_ msgavsi gadawyvetileba, ra

Tqma unda, yovelTvis sariskoa.

Cveni saarCevno blokiT arCevnebSi

vmonawileobT: „xalxis partia”

da jondi baRaTurias „qarTuli

dasi”. erToblivad

SevafaseT da Cveni gadmosaxedidan,

im konkretul olqebSi,

„qarTuli ocnebis” kandidatebi

TavianTi gamocdilebidan da

saqmianobidan gamomdinare Zlieri

kandidatebi arian.

_ Tqven aRiarebT „qarTuli

ocnebis” kandidatebis upirate-

sobas?

_ kaxi kaxiSvilis upiratesobas

namdvilad vaRiareb. Tamamad

SemiZlia vTqva, rom man ministris

postze yofnis periodSi

Zalian bevri dadebiTi ram gaakeTa,

rogorc patimrebisTvis,

aseve cixeSi dasaqmebuli adamianebisTvis.

aseve mimaCnia, rom

daviT sergeenkos reformebi

jandacvis saministroSi Zalian

mniSvnelovani da drouli iyo.

amitom mgonia, rom amiT jentlmenuri

nabiji gadavdgi. yovel

SemTxvevaSi is amomrCeveli,

romelic CemSi liders xedavs da

romelsac SeuZlia maTTvis

sasargeblo saqme gaakeTos, arasdros

gavucrueb maT imedebs da

yovelTvis davrCebi aseT platformaze.

mgonia, rom kaxi kaxiSvilma

da daviT sergeenkom sworad

gamoiyenes Tanamdeboba, ar

gamdidrebulan biujetis xarjze,

jibeSi fuli ar CaudevT.

yovel SemTxvevaSi, Cemamde msgavsi

informacia ar mosula.

_ Tqveni SefasebiT es gadawyvetileba

jentlmenuria, ma-

gram zustad imitom, rom

„qarTuli ocnebis” maJoritar

kandidatebs uWerT mxars, amom-

rCevlis nawils gauCndeba eWvi,

rom „xalxis partia” satelitis

funqcias asrulebs. es Tu

gaiTvaliswineT gadawyvetileb-

is miRebis procesSi?

_ romc dagveyenebina im olqebSi

kandidatebi, viRac mainc

ityoda, rom satelitebi varT.

Cven gvaqvs imis SiSi, rom viRac

satelit partias dagviZaxebs.

sateliti partia rom viyoT, „qarTuli

ocnebis” kritikas ar daviwyebdiT.

zogadad, satelitebs

axasiaTebT, rom mxolod „nacionalur

moZraobas” akritikeben

da sxvas _ ara. Cems gancxadebebs

Tu gadaxedavT, Zalian kritikuli

var, rogorc „qarTuli ocnebis”,

aseve „nacionaluri moZraobis”

misamarTiT. vfiqrob, orive

politikuri Zala warsuls

unda Cabardes. es Cemi subieqturi

azria. amitom vcdilob,

raRac axali Sevqmna, iseTi, rac

maT ar SeuqmniaT. minda, gansxvavebuli

viyo da amis ufleba,

mgoni, maqvs. aseve Cems amomrCevelsac

aqvs amis ufleba da Sesa-

Zlebloba.

_ Tqven ambobT, rom „qarTuli

ocneba” warsuls unda Cab-

ardes. swored am Zalis nawilia

aleqsandre kobaiZe:

`mTavari

prokurori

SoTaZe `qarTuli

ocnebis~

politikuri

iaraRia~

`kaxi kaxiSvilis upiratesobas namdvilad

vaRiareb. Tamamad SemiZlia vTqva, rom man

ministris postze yofnis periodSi Zalian

bevri dadebiTi ram gaakeTa, rogorc

patimrebisTvis, aseve cixeSi dasaqmebuli

adamianebisTvis~

is maJoritari kandidatebi,

romlebsac mxardaWera gamoucxadeT.

es xom winaaRmdego-

brivi gancxadebaa?

_ SesaZloa, me ar momwondes

partiis xedvebi, magram im partiaSi

iyvnen adamianebi, romel-

Ta mimarTac simpaTiiT viyo ganwyobili.

ara imitom, rom vinme

Cemi naTesavi an axlo megobaria,

aramed imitom, rom saqmes akeTeben.

me yovelTvis aRviSnav im

adamianebs, romlebmac saqme gaakeTes,

rogorc „qarTuli ocnebidan”,

aseve „nacionaluri moZraobidan”.

arseboben iseTebi,

romlebic nebismier partiaSi

yofnisas SeZleben saqmis gakeTebas,

radgan menejeruli unarebi

aqvT da xalxis interesebze arian

orientirebulni. amitom, radgan

me „qarTuli ocnebis” zogierT

kandidats mxari davuWire,

es sulac ar niSnavs, rom „qarTul

ocnebas” reveransiT vegebebi.

mkiTxvelisTvis gasagebi, rom

iyos, ganvmartav, rom CemTvis

„qarTuli ocneba” da „nacionaluri

moZraoba” orive erTia,

isinic politikuri niSniT udebdnen

adamianebs iaraRs da esenic

igives imeoreben, cixeebSi problema

wina xelisuflebis drosac

iyo da axlac rCeba.

_ Tumca Tqven kaxiSvils uW-

erT mxars zustad imitom, rom,

Tqveni SefasebiT, man mniS-

vnelovani reformebi gaatara

sasjelaRsrulebis sistemaSi...

_ kaxiSvilisa da subaris ministrobis

periodSi situacia absoluturad

Secvlili iyo. maTi

wamosvlis Semdeg, TiTqos, veli

Caiketa. sasjelaRsrulebis sistemaSi

dasaqmebul adamianebs finansurad

aRar axaliseben, eqimebis

naxevari gauSves, faqtobrivad,

cocxlad kvdebian patimrebi,

maT ar aqvT samedicno daxmarebis

miRebis saSualeba. aseve

me meZaxian matyuaras, TiTqos Cem

mier gavrcelebuli informaciaa,

rom patimrebi amnistiis

moTxovniT SimSiloben _ es realobas

ar Seesabameba. maqvs

Canawerebi, sadac patimrebi Tavadve

saubroben, rom amnistiis

moTxovniT SimSiloben. „nacionalebic”

ase moqmedebdnen, ar

surdaT, msgavsi Temebi gaxmaurebuliyo.

kaxiSvili an subari rom

yofiliyo dRes ministri,

maTzec pirdapir vityodi, rom

maTSia problema.

_ e. i. Tqven problemas xedavT

ara sistemaSi, aramed xe-

lmZRvanel pirebSi?

_ rodesac konkretuli

obieqti mabaria da situacias

vakontroleb, pasuxismgebeli

piric me var. am SemTxvevaSi, batoni

tabataZe da qalbatoni wulukiani

arian pasuxismgeblebi,

romelTac es organo oficialurad

abariaT. amitom maT unda

14

14 N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.


partias dagviZaxeben~

aiRon pasuxismgebloba. ratom

aqvs patimrebs, maTi ojaxis wevrebs

da sasjelaRsrulebaSi

dasaqmebul da axla ukve ukanonod

ganTavisuflebul adamianebs

imis gancda, rom maT kvlav aviwroeben?

wina xeliusflebac

devnida politikuri niSniT adamianebs

da esenic igives akeTeben.

_ Tqven axseneT amnistia,

daafuZneT moZraoba „Semaxe am-

nistia” da amnistiis moTxovniT

bolo periodSi aqciebs mar-

TavT. es sazogadoebis nawilSi

populistur nabijad aRiqmeba,

miT ufro, winasaarCevno periodSi.

xelisuflebis warmomad-

genlebma gipasuxes, rom amnis-

tia winasaarCevnod spekulacie-

bis saSualebas miscems opozi-

cias. Tqveni am mimarTulebiT

aqtiuroba winasaarCevnod kiTx-

vis niSnebs badebs. riT axsniT

am moTxovnis droSi Tanxve-

dras?

_ moZraoba „Semaxe amnistia”

jer kidev TebervalSi daiwyo.

mas Semdeg iseT fazaSi gadavida,

rom am moZraobas resursi aqvs,

5000-mde adamiani gamoiyvanos

rusTavelze. faqtia, rom am

fonze droulia amnistia, es Tema

araTu populisturi, aramed

sensitiuria, sazogadoeba amas

ukve grZnobs. Cven axla imitom

gavaqtiurdiT, rom dRevandel

parlaments legitimacia aqvs. Tu

dRevandeli parlamenti miiRebs

kanonproeqts, maSin is adamianebi,

romlebic amnistias iTxoven,

kmayofilebi iqnebian dRevandeli

xelisuflebiT, magram Tu ar

gaiTvaliswineben am moTxovnas,

sazogadoebis is nawili, romelic

patimrebTan raime formiT

aris dakavSirebuli, dRevandel

xelisuflebas gaubrazdeba da

ar dauWers mxars. ase rom,

dRevandel xelisuflebas Tu

surs am adamianebis gulis mogeba,

mas amis saSualeba eZleva.

Tuki kanonproeqts ar miiReben,

sxva gzas movZebniT. piradad me

politikuri ambiciebi maqvs da

Tu am xelisuflebam ar miiRo amnistia,

maSin TviTon Cavudgebi

saTaveSi amis ganxorcielebas,

Tu parlamentSi movxvdebi.

_ ra aris Tqveni mTavari

gzavnili amomrCevlis misamar-

TiT?

_ dRes gulwrfelobis naklebobaa

politikaSi. me ki gulwrfelad

vaJRereb im problemebsa

da sakiTxebs, romelic mec da

sazogadoebasac awuxebs. Sesa-

Zloa, es vinmes populisturi

egonos, magram gulwrfeloba

martivi SesamCnevia. magaliTad,

amnistiis Tema ar aris popularuli

sakiTxi, zogierTs rcxvenia

kidec, radgan patimris

mSobelia an axlobeli. Tu praqtikas

gaviTvaliswinebT, sxvadasxva

qveyanaSi miiRes amnistiis

aqti, pandemiidan gamomdinare,

miT umetes, socialur-ekonomikuri

foni iseTia, rom saxelmwi-

`sasjelaRsrulebis sistemaSi dasaqmebul adamianebs finansurad aRar

axaliseben, eqimebis naxevari gauSves, faqtobrivad, cocxlad kvdebian

patimrebi, maT ar aqvT samedicno daxmarebis miRebis saSualeba. aseve me

meZaxian matyuaras, TiTqos Cem mier gavrcelebuli informaciaa, rom

patimrebi amnistiis moTxovniT SimSiloben - es realobas ar Seesabameba.

maqvs Canawerebi, sadac patimrebi Tavadve saubroben, rom amnistiis

moTxovniT SimSiloben. `nacionalebic~ ase moqmedebdnen, ar surdaT, msgavsi

Temebi gaxmaurebuliyo~

fosac da ojaxis wevrebs aRar

aqvs imis resursi, rom patimari

arCinos.

_ ramdenad adekvaturia am-

nistiis aqtis moTxovna Cvens

qveyanaSi, sadac ukontrolo

krimonogenuri viTarebaa? amnistia

xom ar gazrdis krimi-

nalur SemTxvevebs, es riski

ganxiluli gaqvT?

_ specialur saxelmwifo institutebs,

magaliTad, policias,

prokuraturas aqvT legitimacia,

rom danaSaulis prevencia

moaxdinon. amaze swored am

organoebma unda ifiqron. uamravi

probacioneria, samajurSebmuli,

27 000 adamiani, isini xom

aRar sCadian danaSauls? mouxs-

àmnistiis Tema ar aris popularuli sakiTxi,

zogierTs rcxvenia kidec, radgan patimris

mSobelia an axlobeli. Tu praqtikas

gaviTvaliswinebT, sxvadasxva qveyanaSi miiRes

amnistiis aqti, pandemiidan gamomdinare, miT

umetes, socialur-ekonomikuri foni iseTia,

rom saxelmwifosac da ojaxis wevrebs aRar

aqvT imis resursi, rom patimari arCinon~

nan nasamarTleoba, rom samsaxuri

daiwyon. maTgan zogierTs

sazRvargareT unda wasvla da

ver midis. aseT pirobebSi ki,

roca samsaxursac ver iwyeben,

piriqiT, danaSaulze xdebian

orientirebulni. amitom aucilebelia

prevenciisTvis humanuri

aqti. saxelmwifom moqalaqeze

unda izrunos.

_ am politikuri saqmianobis

paralelurad xarT Tu ara „Sa-

qaraSvilis saqmeSi” CarTuli?

_ mogexsenebaT, aRniSnul saqmeSi

Cems kolegebTan erTad var

CarTuli. batonebi vasil mamulaSvili

da beqa nemsiwveraZe

Zalian profesionalurad arTmeven

Tavs dakisrebul movaleobas,

me riTac SemiZlia, vexmarebi.

ubralod, drois sakiTxia da

maqsimalurad vcdilob politikis

paralelurad, am saqmeSic

aqtiurad viyo CarTuli. gasul

kviras, wina sasamarTlo sxdomaze,

dacvis mxarem mtkicebulebebi

prokuraturas warudgina,

prokuraturamac, Tavis

mxriv, dacvis mxares warudgina

mtkicebulebebi. sasamarTlom

prokuraturis mtkicebulebebi

yvela dauSva da dacvis mxaris

mier wardgenili analogiuri mtkicebulebebi

_ ara. es aris Ser-

CeviTi midgoma. Tavidanve Cagravs

dacvis mxares sasamarTlo.

aseT pirobebSi rogor SeiZleba

imaze saubari, rom ar aris Ser-

CeviTi midgomebi. metic: es aris

SerCeviTi midgomis klasikuri

magaliTi. 6 braldebulis advokatis

arc erT mtkicebulebas

rom ar dauSveb da amis Semdeg

demokratiaze melaparakebi, es

aris TvalSi nacris Seyra. amitom

aucilebelia, „murusiZeebi”

da maTi Zmebi, romlebic gabatonebulebi

arian dRevandel

sasamarTloSi, rogorme Camova-

SoroT. amisTvis Zalian bevri

berketi arsebobs. ubralod, sazogadoebis

ufro meti aqtiurobaa

saWiro, es adamianebi

iseT wnexSi unda iyvnen, rom arc

ifiqron SerCeviTi midgomebi.

„SaqaraSvilis saqmis” garda, bevri

sxva saqmeic arsebobs, sadac

vlindeba maTi es midgoma. magaliTad,

erT-erT ubralo saqmeze

prokurorma mtkicebuleba gaayalba,

konkretulad, dacvis mxarem

waradgina es dana da samxaraulis

eqspertizis biuro Tu

daadgenda, rom am danaze dazaralebulis

sisxlia, maSin prokurorsac

da gamoZiebasac problema

Seeqmneboda, magram samxaraulis

eqspertizis biurom es

dana gawminda da daskvnaSi Tqva,

rom TiTqos aranairi sisxlis

laqebi ar iyo. es pirdapir miu-

TiTebs imaze, rom samxaraulis

eqspertiza CarTulia am sibin-

ZureSi. samxaraulis eqspertiza,

romelic wesiT, damoukidebeli

rgoli unda iyos, danaSauls sCadis.

Tu gayalbeba surT, yvelafers

ayalbeben da gancda

aqvs, amavdroulad, rom pasuxs

aravin moTxovs.

analogiuri SemTxvevaa „SaqaraSvilis

saqmeSi”, mosamarTlesa

da prokurors gancda aqvT, rom

maT pasuxs aravin moTxovs. isini

manipulireben sazogadoebaze,

maTi mizania, rom sazogadoebaSi

ar iyos bunti, aseve Seuqmnan

SegrZneba, rom damaSaveebi daisajnen

da prokuratura mowodebis

simaRlezea. amis miRma ra xdeba,

saerTod ar ainteresebT.

prokuraturis qmedeba mimarTulia

ara marTlac da saqmis

yovelmxriv obieqtur gamoZiebaze,

aramed imaze, Tu rogor reagirebs

sazogadoeba da Tu

dasWirda, rogor unda gaaCumos

is, anu prokuratura sazogadoebis

reaqcias mihyveba. sazogadoebis

azri yovelTvis mniSvnelovania,

magram rodesac mar-

TlmsajulebaSi profesionalebi

arian, maT samarTlebrivi gadawyvetileba

unda miiRon. eseni ki

ase ar moqmedeben. dRes mTavari

prokurori davalebulia

„qarTuli ocnebisgan” da maT

politikur iaraRadaa qceuli.

sworedac rom „qarTul ocnebasTan”

aris valSi da mis nebasurvils

asrulebs batoni So-

TaZe. aseTi gancda maqvs mec da

dawrmunebuli var, sazogadoebis

did nawilsac. Tavis droze,

SoTaZe xoravas saqmes gadahyva,

Semdeg ki isev dabrunda adgilze

da agrZelebs mmarTveli gundis

sasargeblod saqmianobas.

_ ra mocemulobaa dResdRe-

obiT „SaqaraSvilis saqmeSi”?

_ mniSvnelovan fazaze gadavediT,

mowmeebis dakiTxva daiwyeba.

mowmeebis meSveobiT realur

suraTs gavigebT, aseve

kidev erTxel vnaxavT, rom

aranairi mtkicebuleba ar aris

imisa, rom am biWebma aseTi

Semzaravi danaSauli Caidines.

vnaxoT, ra Cvenebas miscemen mowmeebi

sasamarTlos. erTia, sagamoZiebo

uwyebas miawodo informacia

da meorea, rom sasamarTlos

misce Cveneba. ras ityvian

sasamarTloSi, swored amas aqvs

gadamwyveti mniSvneloba.

_ ra molodini gaqvT? Tqveni

dacvis qveS myofebi gama-

rTldebian?

_ maqvs molodini, rom mkvlelobis

nawilSi gamarTldebian.

rac Seexeba Tavisuflebis

ukanano aRkveTas, am nawilSi

amirxanaSvils 5-jer aqvs Secvlili

Cveneba da ras daeyrdnoba

sasamarTlo?! faqtia, rom, jerjerobiT,

dRevandeli sasamarTlo

da prokuratura ukadrebels

kadrulobs. rogor ganvi-

Tardeba movlenebi amas Zalian

male gavigebT.

N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.

15


`ruseTi 31 oqtombris arCevnebSi

Tavis gamarjvebaSi darwmuneb-

Sorena marsagiSvili

uli opozicia arCevnebamde Tve-

599 92 16 22

naxevriT adre gancxromas mieca.

Cveni opoziciis Semxedvare ver-

avin ifiqrebs, rom maTi mTavari konkurenti ruseTis mier

zurggamagrebuli, 7 miliardis patroni biZina ivaniSvilia.

erovnuli moZraobis erT-erTi lideri Tamar CxeiZe ver xs-

nis mizezs, Tu ratom aris opozicia ase arxeinad? misi varaudiT,

opozicias gamarjvebis imedi dasavleTidan mosulma wer-

ilebma Causaxa. CxeiZe ambobs, rom arCevnebSi gamarjvebis

mosapoveblad dasavleTis mxardaWera mniSvnelovania, magram

ara _ gadamwyveti. erovnuli moZraobis erT-erTi lideri

opoziciaze ganawyenebulic aris. amis miuxedavad, arCevnebze

mainc wava da xmasac xelisuflebis winaaRmdeg miscems.

ratom aris opozicia aseTi

arxeini? raze unda agon maT pa-

suxi xelisuflebasTan erTad?

ratom ar unda SevewinaaRmde-

goT opoziciaSi xelisuflebidan

wamosuli pirebis gaer-

Tianebas? ras moimoqmedebs

arCevnebze ruseTi? _ am Temebis

Sesaxeb Tamar CxeiZe „qroni-

ka+~-s esaubreba:

_ qalbatono Tamar, saparla-

mento arCevnebamde erT Tveze

cota meti rCeba. aseT dros

opozicia Zalian aqtiuria xol-

me. axla opoziciis mxridan aqtiuroba

ar SeiniSneba. maT pasi-

urobas ra ganapirobebs, koro-

napandemia, Tu sxva rame mizezi

aqvT arxeinad yofnisTvis?

_ opoziciis pasiuroba Tval-

Si sacemia. mgonia, rom isini cota

araseriozulad uyureben Seqmnil

viTarebas, ver acnobiereben,

visTan aqvT saqme da fiqroben,

rom ukve ganaRdebuli

aqvT gamarjveba. imaTi laparakidan

ase Cans, rom gamarjvebaSi

darwmunebuli arian. biZina ivaniSvilis

xelisufleba arCevnebis

mosagebad yvelaferze wava

da yvela meqanizms gamoiyenebs.

am viTarebaSi qveyanaSi sul sxva

suraTi unda iyos.

_ sxva suraTSi ras gulisx-

mobT?

_ opozicia bevrad aqtiuri

unda iyos, vidre axlaa. procesebi

unda duRdes. yvelaferi sapirispirodaa.

_ ratom ar aqtiuroben? ar

sjeraT, rom ivaniSvili yvelafers

ikadrebs, Tu dasavleTidan

wamosuli gancxadebe-

bi uqmniT imis iluzias, rom

ukve gaimarjves arCevnebSi an

iqneb, Zalebs inaxaven da oqtom-

bridan gaaqtiurdebian?

_ ivaniSvili rom yvelaferze

wava, es opoziciam Zalian kargad

icis. RmerTma qnas, rom maTi pasiuroba

Zalebis dazogvasTan

iyos kavSirSi da nel-nela akrifon

siswrafe. dRes pasiuroba

dauSvebelia. dasavleTis mxardaWera

opoziciis mimarT arsebobs

da xelisuflebis Sesacvlelad

es aucilebeli pirobaa.

magram mxolod amiT gamarjveba

ver miiRweva. sxva pirobebic unda

Sesruldes. imisTvis, rom „qarTuli

ocneba” damarcxdes, sazogadoeba

da opozicia gansakuTrebulad

aqtiuri unda iyos.

dRes moduneba dauSvebelia. unda

gvaxsovdes, rom Cven vupirispirdebiT

biZina ivaniSvils,

romelsac ruseTi umagrebs

zurgs.

_ ruseTis garda mas miliar-

debic umagrebs zurgs.

_ es uzarmazari finansebic

gasaTvaliswinebelia. arc is garemoeba

unda dagvaviwydes, rom

ivaniSvili araa is kaci, kanonis

an zneobis gamo raRacaze rom

Tavi Seikavos. is yvelafers gaakeTebs

sasurveli Sedegis misaRwevad

da am saqmeSi misTvis aranari

moraluri zRudeebi ar

iarsebebs. Zaladoba xelisuflebam

ukve daiwyo. amis Sesaxeb yoveldRe

vismenT televiziidan.

Tavs esxmian opoziciis mxardam-

Werebs, emuqrebian Jurnalistebs.

megona, rom amas opoziciis

mxridan seriozuli protesti

moyveboda, magram isini ise iqcevian,

TiTqos raRac Cveulebrivi

ambavi moxda. raRac saprotesto

gancxadebebs ki akeTeben, magram

Zaladobaze sruliad sxva donis

reagireba da protestis formebia

saWiro. opoziciis aseTi pasiuroba

Zalian maSinebs.

_ opoziciis pasiurobasTan

dakavSirebiT aseTi varaudebic

gamoiTqva, rom TiTqos xelisu-

flebasTan garigebulebi arian

da ukve winaswar aris gadaw-

yvetili, Tu vin ramden procents

aiRebs arCevnebSi. am ver-

siaze ras gvetyviT?

_ amasTan daakavSirebiT verafers

vityvi. opoziciisa da

xelisuflebis SesaZlo garigebaze

aranair seriozul informaciebs

ar vflob, Sesabamisad,

aseT mZime braldebas ver gaviziareb.

imas ki darwmunebiT vityvi,

rom opozicia Zalian

arasakadrisad da cudad moiqca

pandemiis pirveli talRis dros.

_ cudad moqcevaSi ras

gulisxmobT?

_ maT xelisuflebas mxari

dauWires im radikaluri zomebis

miRebaSi, ramac qveyana ganadgurebis

piras miiyvana. maSin

miRebuli zomebi araproporciuli

iyo koronavirusTan mimarTebiT.

me ar vambob, rom pandemia

ar arsebobs, ra Tqma unda,

is aris, sifrTxilec unda gamoviCinoT,

magram gvaxsovdes,

rom araferi gansakuTrebuli ar

xdeba.

_ korona Cveulebriv viru-

sad migaCniaT?

_ ra Tqma unda. is iseTive

Cveulebrivi virusia, rogorc

aqamde arsebuli virusebi. maTze

arc metia da arc naklebi. es rom

asea, statistikuradac Zalian

martivad mtkicdeba. virusis

Tamar CxeiZe:

òpozicia ivaniSvilis

winaaRmdeg erTiani

siiT unda gamosuliyo~

winaaRmdeg raRac zoma unda miiRo,

magram es zoma im virusze

uaresi ar unda iyos, romlis

winaaRmdegac brZola daiwye. im

zomebma, romelic Cvenma xelisuflebam

miiRo, aTasobiT ojaxi

gaanadgura saqarTveloSi. pandemiis

saxeliT ojaxebis gaubedurebas

„qarTuli ocneba”

dResac agrZelebs. raRac-raRac

biznesebs ketaven da skolebs ar

xsnian. yvelaferi es imdenad

damRupvelia, rom mas aranairi

pandemia ar Seedreba. korona

arc Savi Wiria da arc e. w. espanka.

es virusi qaTmisa da Roris

gripis tolfasia. adamianebi ma-

Sinac iRupebodnen. xalxis gardacvalebas

Cveulebrivi gripic

ki iwvevs.

_ opoziciam ratom dauWira

mxari am radikaluri zomebis

miRebas?

_ zogierTma gulubryvilod

dauWira mxari, egonaT, rom mar-

Tla aseTi saxifaTo iyo es virusi.

umetesobam imitom gaiziara

xelisuflebis SemoTavazebuli

akrZalvebi, rom msoflio

tendenciebs auba mxari. raxan

mTeli msoflio Caiketa, CaTvales,

rom ase iyo saWiro. ar

undodaT, msoflio trends CamorCeniliyvnen.

raRac zomebisTvis

opozicias mxari unda

daeWira, magram ara ekonomikis

sruli gaCerebisTvis. ekonomika

dasavleTis qveynebSic gaCerda

da esec gaumarTlebeli iyo.

ekonomikis srul gaCerebasa da

CamoSlas aSS-is prezidentma

trampma SeuSala xeli, marTla am

adamianma gadagvarCina, Torem

arc ki vici, dRes sad viqnebodiT.

samwuxaroa, rom xelisuflebam

ekonomika opoziciis

TanxmobiT gaaCera. am mxadaWeras

axla nanobs opozicia, magram es

sinanuli dagvianebulia.

_ raSi gamoixateba es sinanu-

li?

_ „evropuli saqarTvelos”

erT-erTma liderma, zurab WiaberaSvilma,

Tqva, maSin Cven beRuras

zarbazani vesroleTo. Tu

xedavdi, rom is beRura iyo, ma-

Sin ratom dauWire zarbaznis

srolas mxari? samwuxarod, opozicia

qarTuli ekonomikis

CamoSlis Tanamonawile gaxda.

`virusis winaaRmdeg raRac zoma unda miiRo,

magram es zoma im virusze uaresi ar unda

iyos, romlis winaaRmdegac brZola daiwye. im

zomebma, romelic Cvenma xelisuflebam miiRo,

aTasobiT ojaxi gaanadgura saqarTveloSi.

pandemiis saxeliT ojaxebis gaubedurebas

`qarTuli ocneba~ dResac agrZelebs. raRac-

raRac biznesebs ketaven da skolebs ar xsnian.

yvelaferi es imdenad damRupvelia, rom mas

aranairi pandemia ar Seedreba~

_ maTi mxardaWeris gareSec

xom gaitanda am SezRudvebis

dawesebas „qarTuli ocneba”?

_ ra Tqma unda, gaitanda. ivaniSvils

amis problema ar hqonda.

opozicia am sakiTxs ufro

seriozulad unda mohkideboda

da TavSive mimxvdariyo, rom es

iyo beRurisTvis zarbaznis srola.

iseTi donis virusi, rogoric

koronaa, imaze uaress Sedegs

ver moutanda saqarTvelos,

vidre es ekonomikis gaCerebam

moitana. erTxans kovidkampania

Sewyvetili iyo. ramdenime kviraa,

rac xelisuflebam es kampania

gamoacocxla. es sruli TviTneboba

gaxlavT. rogorc undaT,

ise weren monacemebs. aravin akontrolebs

da ra cifric undaT,

imas daasaxeleben. testebze saubaric

sasaciloa, Tavadac araerTxel

aRiares, rom es testebi

arasaimedoa. eqimebic acxadeben,

rom erT dRes sxvas aCvenebs

testi, meore dRes _ sxvas. ratom

unda vendoT am testebs? am

testebis daxmarebiT viszec unda,

imaze ityvian, rom mas aqvs

kovidi. Zalian araseriozulad

da danaSaulis tolfasad mimaCnia

ekonomikisa da qalaqebis Caketva

imis gamo, rom ramdenime

kacs temperaturam auwia. saarCevno

periodSi xelisufleba am

TemiT gansakuTrebulad cudad

manipuliebs. es seriozul eWvebs

aCens.

_ arCevnebamde cota xniT

adre inficirebulTa ricxvi

Zalian gaizarda. xelisufleba

arCevnebis gadadebas xom ar ap-

irebs? jer kidev zafxulSi gviTxres,

rom saWiroebis SemTx-

vevaSi arCevnebs gadadebdnen.

_ es varianti maT mier ganixileba,

amis Sesaxeb jer kidev ramdenime

Tvis winaT gaakeTa gancxadeba

irakli kobaxiZem. rogorc

vatyob, amasTan dakavSirebiT

jer saboloo gadawyvetileba

miRebuli ar aris. „qarTuli

ocnebis” mizania, rogorme gaimarjvon

arCevnebSi da isev Tvi-

Ton daakompleqton xelisufleba.

arCevnebis gadadeba axla didad

ar surT. am sakiTxs mxolod

maSin daayeneben dRis wesrigSi,

Tu dainaxaven, rom arCevnebs ageben.

dRes isini wagebis safrTxes

ver xedaven.

_ opoziciis dReSi yofilan

_ naadrevad daijeres, rom

16

16 N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.

N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.


aucileblad Caereva~

arCevnebs isini moigeben.

_ bolomde Tavdajerebulebi

ar arian, magram opoziciisgan

gansxvavebiT imedis safuZveli

namdvilad aqvT.

_ ras emyareba es imedi?

_ bevr rames. cota xnis win

kvlevebi gamoqveynda da vnaxeT,

rom „ocnebas” 33%-iani mxardaWera

aqvs. 33% realuri ricxvi ar

iqneba. xSirad moqmedebs SiSis

faqtori da roca adamians eki-

Txebian, xmas vis aZlevo, ityvis,

xelisuflebaso. „qarTulma ocnebam”

es icis da sadRac 25%-ian

mogebaze aris orientirebuli,

arCevnebze erTi amdens uproblemod

daimateben da umravlesobiT

Sevlen parlamentSi.

_ ranairad daimateben am

procentebs?

_ Zalian martivad. es yvelaferi

ukve gaTvlili aqvT. sasurveli

Sedegis misaRwevad yvela

meTods mimarTaven arCevnebis

gasayalbeblad. iqneba Zaladoba,

mosyidva, motyueba, administraciuli

resursis gamoyeneba.

es sistema „qarTul ocnebas”

awyobili aqvs. roca vangari-

SobT, risi miReba SeuZliaT, kvlevebiT

miRebuli Sedegi unda

gavaormagoT. arCevnebze 50%-is

mogrovebis imedi aqvs „ocnebas”

da amitomac pesimisturad ar

aris ganwyobili.

_ dasavleli partniorebi

varaudoben, rom ruseTi Seecdeba,

saqarTvelos saparla-

mento arCevnebSi Caerios. Tqven

ras fiqrobT?

_ Cemi azriT, ruseTi ki ar

Seecdeba, aucileblad Caereva

arCevnebSi. me is ufro gamikvirdeba,

Tu ar Caereva. damoukideblobis

mopovebis Semdeg saqar-

TveloSi jer ar Catarebula ar-

Cevnebi, rom ruseTi ar Careuliyo.

amisTvis moskovs Zalian

seriozuli berketebi aqvs. ruse-

Ti rom CvenSi Catarebul yvela

arCevnebSi ereva, amas qarTuli

sazogadoeba Zalian araseriozulad

uyurebda.

_ ratom uyurebda araserio-

zulad?

_ miaCnda, rom ruseTi ar

Caereoda. egona, rom ruseTs ar

ainteresebda, Tu vin movidoda

aq xelisuflebis saTaveSi. axla

es damokidebuleba odnav Seicvala.

_ ram gamoiwvia damokide-

ìmisTvis, rom `qarTuli ocneba~ damarcxdes, sazogadoeba da opozicia

gansakuTrebulad aqtiuri unda iyos. dRes moduneba dauSvebelia. unda

gvaxsovdes, rom Cven vupirispirdebiT biZina ivaniSvils, romelsac

ruseTi umagrebs zurgs~

bulebis Secvla?

_ evropis araerTma qveyanam

ganacxada, rom ruseTi Seecada,

maT arCevnebSi Careuliyo. vnaxeT

isic, rom amerikis arCevneb-

Sic ki Caeria. amerikis saqmeebSi

rom ereva, xom warmogidgeniaT,

saqarTveloSi ras izams. Cveni

sazogadoebis TiTqmis yvela

fena gajerebulia rusuli agenturiT.

amis garda maT aqvT

Zalian seriozuli berketebi.

kremli iseT politteqnologiebs

flobs, romelic dasavleTs

ar gaaCnia. aseve gasaTvaliswinebelia

is informaciebi, rac

moskovs qarTul sazogadoebaze

aqvs, yvelaferi ician Cvenze,

Cvens mentalitetze. konkretuli

adamianebis fsiqikis Sesaxebac

ki arian informirebulebi.

ase rom, arCevnebSi rusebis Carevis

safrTxe Zalian maRalia.

_ saparlamento arCevnebSi

moskovis Carevas Tavidan ver-

anairad avicilebT?

_ amis Tavidan acilebas

Zalian didi Zalisxmeva sWirdeba.

mxolod uzarmazar Zalisxmevas

SeuZlia am faqtoris daZleva.

ruseTi ase iolad ar Seeleva

saqarTvelos.

_ amis daZlevas opozicia

SeZlebs? zemoT Cven imaze vi-

saubreT, Tu rogori pasiuria

Cveni opozicia. is arc rusuli

safrTxeebis mimarT aris aqti-

uri.

_ samwuxarod asea. opozicia

Zalian mSvidadaa. erTi SexedviT,

adamiani ver ityvis, rom win

Zalian mniSvnelovani arCevnebi

gvelodeba. RmerTma qnas, gaaqtiurdnen.

axla mxolod imis Tqma

SemiZlia, rom Zalian duned midis

es procesi.

_ Tavad opoziciaSi mimdi-

nare procesebze ras fiqrobT?

opozicionerebi ukve Riad

daupirispirdnen erTmaneTs.

arada, cota xnis winaT jer kidev

erTad isxdnen molaparake-

èvropuli saqarTvelos~ erT-erTma liderma,

zurab WiaberaSvilma, ilma, Tqva, maSin Cven beRuras

zarbazani vesroleTo. Tu xedavdi, rom is

beRura iyo, maSin ratom dauWire zarbaznis

srolas mxari? samwuxarod, opozicia qarTuli

ekonomikis CamoSlis Tanamonawile gaxda~

bebis magidasTan. aman sazoga-

doebas imedebi gauCina.

_ es dapirispirebebic Zalian

cudia, amiT mxolod „ocnebis”

xelisufleba ixeirebs. opozicias

sxva gziT SeeZlo wasvla, es

gza maTTvis warmatebis momtani

iqneboda.

_ ra gziT SeZlebda opozi-

cia warmatebis miRwevas?

_ arsebul situaciaSi sauke-

Teso gamosavali erTiani saarCevno

sia iqneboda. me imis winaa-

Rmdegi ki ar var, rom TiToeuli

partia gamoikveTos da xalxma

is gacnobierebulad airCios,

vinc unda, ubralod, axla gansakuTrebul

mdgomareobaSi vimyofebiT

da es opozicias aucileblad

unda gaeTvaliswinebina.

arsebul viTarebaSi mTavari mizani

biZina ivaniSvlis xelisuflebisgan

CamoSreba unda iyos.

opozicias xalxisTvis is mesiji

unda miewodebina, romelsac

ufro martivad miiRebda. imas

yvela ambobs, rom xelisufleba

aucileblad unda Seicvalos.

roca ambob, rom unda Seicvalos,

maSin erTianobaze unda yofiliyo

koncentrireba. es meTodi

xalxze kargad imuSavebda.

_ opozicias xom aqvs aseTi

slogani, _ yvela erTis winaaRm-

deg. es, Tu ar vcdebi, daTo

berZeniSvilis mofiqrebulia.

_ erTad ki arian am xelisuflebis

winaaRmdeg, magram sxvadasxva

partiiT monawileoben

arCevnebSi. jobda, yvela erTad

yofiliyo. erTiani saarCevno sia

arsebul viTarebaSi ufro kargad

imuSavebda, magram ase ar

moxda. raki erTiani sia ar gamovida,

opoziciam sxvanairad unda

SeZlos erTianobis Senar-

Cuneba. opozicionerebi erTmaneTze

Tavdasxmebisgan Tavs unda

ikavebdnen. gansxvavebebi aucileblad

unda gamokveTon, magram

Zalian koreqtuli formiT. erTmaneTic

unda gaakritikon, kritika

sasargebloa, magram Seuracxyofaze

ar unda gadavidnen.

Tu ivaniSvils xelisuflebas CamoaSoreben,

mere Catardeba srulad

proporciuli arCevnebi da

yvela partia SeZlebs, Tavisi saxe

gamokveTos. dRes calkeuli

partiebis gamokveTa mTavari

araa. dRes mTavaria, im ubedurebisgan

gavTavisufldeT, rasac

biZina ivaniSvilis xelisufleba

hqvia.

_ garda imisa, rom opozicia

erTmaneTs lanZRavs, maT kari

farTod gauRes im xalxs, vinc

cota xnis win „qarTul ocneba-

Si” iyo. „evropulma saqarTve-

lom” armaz axvlediani miiRo

Tavis rigebSi, „nacionalebma” ki

kaxa oqriaSvili gaiformes. es,

Tqveni azriT, normaluria?

_ am ambavSi cuds verafers

vxedav. amasTan dakavSirebiT

winaaRmdegoba ar miCndeba. mimaCnia,

rom es erTgvari simptomia.

am simptoms gagrZeleba rom mohyoloda,

Zalian karg process

miviRebdiT. es procesi dagvexmareboda

ivaniSvilis damarcxebaSi.

_ karg process miviRebdiTo

da procesis sikarge raSi gam-

oixateba?

_ sazogadoeba naxavda, rom

mmarTvel partiaSi raRac xdeba.

„qarTuli ocnebis” wevrebis

opoziciaSi gadmobargeba rom

gagrZelebuliyo, es aCvenebda

xelisuflebis daSlis process.

oRond bevri unda wamosuliyo,

marto erTi da ori adamianis

wamosvla aminds ver Seqmnis. mxolod

mivesalmebi, Tu „ocnebidan”

opoziciaSi gadmova xalxi,

es saerTo miznis miRwevaSi

Zalian dagvexmareba.

_ Tqven cuds verafers xedavT

imaSi, rom „ocnebidan” wa-

mosulebi opoziciis rigebSi

aRmoCndnen, es ramdenad aris

moralTan axlos?

_ mxolod mivesalmebi, Tu es

procesi daiwyeba, „qarTuli ocnebidan”

wamosuli adamianebi

unda miiRos opoziciam. yvelas

movuwodeb, rom Tu aseTi procesi

daiwyeba, Tavi Seikavon Sefasebebisgan.

am SemTxvevaSi zedmeti

moralizeba saWiro ar aris.

_ gasul kviras Catarebuli

kvlevebiT vnaxeT, rom mosaxle-

obis did nawils jer kidev ar

aqvs gadawyvetili, vis miscems

arCevnebSi xmas. Tqvenc gadauw-

yvetel amomrCevels miekuTvne-

biT, Tu ukve iciT, vis dauWerT

mxars?

_ konkretulad vis davuWer

mxars, ar vici, magram gadauwyveteli

amomrCeveli ar var.

vici, rom Cems xmas miiRebs romelime

prodasavluri opoziciuri

Zala. aseve mxars davuWer ma-

Joritarobis opozicioner kandidats.

jer saboloo gadawyvetileba

miRebuli ar maqvs. arCevnebze

misvlisken sxvebsac movuwodeb.

yvela unda wavides da

sasurvel partias misces xma.

kargi iqneboda, rom opozicia

erTiani frontiT gamosuliyo.

ase ufro iolad damarcxdeboda

ivaniSvili. maJoritarebTan

dakavSirebiT opozicia raRacnairad

SeTanxmda. pirvel turSi

erTiani kandidatebis dasaxeleba

ar gamovida, magram imaze SeTanxmebuli

arian, rom meore tur-

Si opozicioners dauWeren mxars.

imedi maqvs, opozicia male

gaaqtiurdeba. arCevnebamde Zalian

cota dro rCeba. opoziciis

pasiurobas „qarTuli ocneba”

Tavis sasargeblod gamoiyenebs.

17


`Cemi gatexa, mliqvnelad da

mas Semdeg, rac vasil maRlafe-

giorgi abaSiZe

riZe moulodnelad gadadga, sazogadoebrivi

mauwyeblis gener-

aluri direqtoris Tanamdeboba vakanturi aRmoCnda. Tavidan

iTqva, rom maRlaferiZem „sazmau” imitom datova, rom Sesa-

Zloa, „ocnebis” saparlamento siaSi mowinave adgili daika-

voso, magram Tavadve ganmarta, rom politikaSi ver vixilavT.

amasTan, kuluarebidan gamoJona xmam, rom maRlaferiZis mou-

lodneli wasvla SesaZloa, garkveul finansur maqinaciebTan

iyos kavSirSi. iqneb, arc uamisobaa, miT umetes, im fonze, roca

sazogadoebrivi mauwyebeli biujetidan, anu TiToeuli Cven-

ganis jibidan, weliwadSi ramdenime aTeul milions iRebs da,

moaruli informaciiT, erTgvari korufciuli midrekilebe-

bi, jer kidev, SevardnaZis epoqidan moyolebuli, am dawese-

bulebis yvela xelmZRvanels hqonda.

maRlaferiZis gadadgomaze

aranakleb moulodneli iyo, rom

sazogadoebrivi mauwyeblis generaluri

direqtorobis survili

analitikosma xaTuna lagaziZem gamoTqva.

amis Sesaxeb man ramdenime

dRis win socialur qselSi dawera:

„megobrebo, dRes Sevitane

gancxadeba sazogadoebrivi mauwyeblis

generaluri direqtoris

Tanamdebobaze. ratom miviRe es

gadawyvetileba:

1. sazogadoebrivi mauwyebeli

unda daubrundes sazogadoebas: im

dros, roca saqarTvelos winaaRmdeg

sainformacio omi mimdinareobs,

sazogadoebrivi mauwyebeli

unda iqces Tavdacvis mZlavr iaraRad

sazogadoebis xelSi; totaluri

feikniusebis pirobebSi, sazogadoebrivma

mauwyebelma unda

aiRos sakuTar Tavze sazogadoebis

farTo masebis ganaTlebis problema:

rogor iyvnen SeiaraRebulebi

da daculebi yalbi informaciuli

nakadebisgan. maSin, roca sainformacio

omis mTavari mizani

saqarTvelos sazogadoebis erTmaneTTan

mtrulad ganwyobil jgufebad

daqsaqsvaa, amis sapirispirod

sazogadoebrivi mauwyeblis mizani

erTiani, progressa da aRm-

Seneblobaze orientirebuli samoqalaqo

sazogadoebis mSeneblobis

xelSewyobaa. sazogadoebrivi mauwyeblis

kidev erTi umniSvnelovanesi

funqcia Tanamedrove, inovaciebisa

da teqnologiebis epoqaSi

momavali TaobisTvis warmatebis

saWiro unarebisa da swori orientirebis

dasaxvaa;

2. me waugebel brZolaSi Sevdivar:

Tu sameurveo sabWo amirCevs,

meqneba saSualeba, sazogadoebrivi

mauwyebeli gadavaqcio saqarTvelos

sainformacio sivrcis, saqarTvelos

sazogadoebis yalbi sainformacio

nakadebisgan dacvis

mTavar platformad, romelic

xels Seuwyobs mis erTian, progressa

da aRmSeneblobaze orientirebul

samoqalaqo sazogadoebad

formirebas da dausaxavs mas

Tanamedrove, inovaciur, teqnologiur

epoqaSi warmatebisTvis saWiro

unarebsa da orientirebs. da

vfiqrob, es sameurveo sabWos wevrebisTvisac

mniSvnelovani da Rirebuli

mizania. meore mxriv, es ar-

Cevnebi xelisuflebis testia: Tu

xelisuflebis zewoliT sazogadoebrivi

mauwyeblis direqtorad

misi interesebis gamtarebeli Cinovniki

mogvevlina, saparlamento

arCevnebamde Tve-naxevriT adre

„ocneba” sakuTar saxes aCvenebs

rogorc mosaxleobas, aseve _ saer-

TaSoriso sazogadoebas: rogor

apirebs is zewoliT da xelebis

gadagrexiT arCevnebis Catarebas?

3. radgan am brZolaSi Sevdivar,

imisTvisac mzad var, rom xelisu-

flebam ukadrebelic ikadros: er-

Ti wlis winaT, roca Tanamedrove

saqarTveloSi profesionalizmis

erT-erTma etalonma qalbatonma

sazmaus bordis wevrobaze gancxadeba

Seitana, mis students iseTi

sasacilo, rom ara satirali, yalbi

braldebebi aTiTxnines, Tavad

moiWres Tavi, Torem am qalbatons

araferi dahklebia. ase rom, CemTvis

da TqvenTvisac sruliad na-

Telia, rom nebismieri kampania,

romelsac konkursis periodSi Cem

winaaRmdeg mimarTaven, xelisuflebis

organizebuli iqneba;

4. da amis miuxedavad, brZola

sjobs ubrZolvelobas, radgan alternativa

rusuli gavlenebis kidev

ufro gafarToeba da Waobia”.

ise, „ocneba”, albaT, yvelafers

gaakeTebs, rom lagaziZe „sazmaus”

direqtori ver gaxdes. amis Tqmis

safuZvels ki socialur qselSi xelisuflebasTan

afilirebuli

subieqtebis aqtiuroba iZleva, anu

yalbi Tu realuri aqauntebiT

„ocnebis” aqtivistebi xaTuna lagaziZeze

Sturms axorcieleben _

mis codna-gamocdilebas ver iwuneben,

magram opoziciur ganwyobebSi

sdeben brals da amboben, rogor

SeiZleba, televiziis xelmZRvaneli

gaxdeso. arada, „qocebs”

aviwydebaT, rom sazogadoebrivi

mauwyebeli „ocnebis”, e. i., xelisuflebis

ki ara, sazogadoebis saku-

Trebaa da Sesabamisad, es televizia

am qveynis nebismieri moqalaqis

_ „qocis”, „nacisa” Tu marSelis

interess unda gamoxatavdes.

mokled, ratom unda „sazmaus”

xelmZRvaneloba analitikoss? _

„qronika+~ xaTuna lagaziZes es-

aubra:

_ qalbatono xaTuna, sazogadoebrivi

mauwyeblis gendireq-

toris konkursSi monawileoba

ratom gadawyviteT?

_ bolo wlebSi ruseTis mxridan

saqarTvelos winaaRmdeg sainformacio

omi sul ufro masStaburi

xdeba, Tumca saqarTvelos

Sesabamisi struqturebisgan kontrsainformacio

politikas ver

vxedav. SemiZlia, pirdapir vTqva,

rom Cvens saxelmwifos usafrTxoebis

sainformacio politika ar

gaaCnia, rac sazogadoebaze damangrevel

gavlenas axdens.

_ ratom?

_ yvelafer amis mizani mxolod

saqarTveloSi ki ara, nebismier

qveyanaSi, sadac ruseTi sainformacio

oms axorcielebs, erTia _

sazogadoebis mtrulad ganwyobil

nawilebad gaxleCa, raTa adamianebma

erTmaneTTan salaparako ena ver

gamonaxon. mokled, ruseTis mizani

qveynebisgan babilonis godolis

Seqmnaa. feikniusebisa Tu SeTqmulebis

Teoriebis mTeli kampaniac

swored amas emsaxureba.

_ erTi sityviT, Cveni sazm-

auwyebeli rusuli sainformacio

omis, minimum, gasaqarwyleblad

arafers akeTebs?

_ diax, Tumca sanam uSualod

sazogadoebriv mauwyebelze gadaval,

kidev erTxel getyviT, rom

saxelmwifos TavdacviTi da usafrTxoebis

sainformacio politika

ar gaaCnia, anu sainformacio

Tavdacvis zRudeebi mTlianad mo-

SiSvlebulia. arada, im dros, roca

am sainformacio omis mTavari samizne

sazogadoebaa, am kuTxiT upirvelesi

roli swored sazogadoebriv

mauwyebels ekisreba.

_ ras gulisxmobT?

_ sainformacio-saganmanaTleblo

saqmianobas _ sazogadoeba

srulad unda iyos informirebuli,

ra xdeba da ra tipis sainformacio

nakadebs axveven Tavs. yovel

SemTxvevaSi, piradad me mimaCnia,

rom feikniusebisa Tu feiksaitebis

gamovlena da aseve im ganwyobebze

saubari, romelTa damkvidrebasac

cdiloben, yoveldRe

unda xdebodes. amasTan, yvelaferi

es Zalian interaqtiuli unda iyos,

anu roca adamians kiTxva gauCndeba,

esa Tu is niusi an sainformacio

wyaro ramdenad realuria, sazogadoebrivma

mauwyebelma pasuxi

unda gasces. saerTod, sazogadoebriv

mauwyebels ori mimarTuleba

unda hqodnes.

_ kerZod?

_ erTi ganaTlebis mimarTulebaa,

romliTac sazogadoebas gaagebinebs,

feikniusi da, saerTod,

sainformacio omi ras niSnavs da

yvelafer amis aqtorebi vin arian.

meore mimarTuleba ki konkretuli

qeisebis mayurebelTan erTad

ganxilvaa. yvelaferi es yoveld-

Riurad unda xdebodes da amiT sazogadoebrivi

mauwyeblis yurebadobac

gaizrdeba. sxvaTa Soris, es

nouhau araa _ saqarTveloSi ar

xdeba, Torem msgavsi precedentebi

msoflioSi arsebobs da dasavlur

samyaroSi TiTqmis yvela sazogadoebrivi

mauwyebeli swored

`nebismier qveyanaSi, sadac ruseTi

sainformacio oms axorcielebs, erTia -

sazogadoebis mtrulad ganwyobil nawilebad

gaxleCa, raTa adamianebma erTmaneTTan

salaparako ena ver gamonaxon. mokled,

ruseTis mizani qveynebisgan babilonis

godolis Seqmnaa. feikniusebisa Tu

SeTqmulebis Teoriebis mTeli kampaniac

swored amas emsaxureba~

xaTuna lagaziZe:

`me waugebel

brZolaSi Sevedi,

radgan sazogadoebas

davanaxeb,

sazogadoebrivi

mauwyeblis

mizani ra aris~

am mimarTulebiT muSaobs. magaliTisTvis

BBC-s moviyvan, romlis

partniorebic Facebook-i da Googlea

da zemoxsenebuli tipis niusebs

swored maTTan erTad avlens da

reagirebasac axdens.

_ sanam Cveni „sazmau” BBC-s

miuaxlovdeba, albaT, aTasi wyali

Caivlis, Tan, qalbatono xaTuna,

televiziis yofili xelmZRv-

anelebi Tu amJamindeli mesveure-

bi aucileblad SegekamaTebian da

getyvian, igive feikniusebTan sa-

brZolvelad specportali Cvenc

SevqmeniTo...

_ diax, es vebgverdi nanaxi maqvs,

magram verafriT SemekamaTebian.

_ ratom?

_ sanam am gadawyvetilebas miviRebdi,

maqsimalurad Sevecade,

rom sazogadoebrivi mauwyeblis

yvela detali Semeswavla _ biujetidan

dawyebuli, programuli

badiT, strategiiTa Tu prioritetebiT

damTavrebuli. aqedan gamomdinare,

SemiZlia, pirdapir vTqva,

rom feikniusebTan vebgverdis

Seqmna zRvaSi wveTi da valis moxdaa!

_ ase ratom ggoniaT?

_ socialur qselSi wamosul

feikniusebis niaRvars raRac saitiT

ver SeebrZolebi, Tan aq mxolod

socialur qselze ki ara,

aTeulobiT dafinansebul saitzea

saubari, romliTac, sabolo jam-

Si, feiksainformacio veli iqmneba,

rasac dafinansebuli adamianebis

kohortac emateba. amitomac

yvelafer amas raRac erTi valismosaxdeli

vebgverdiT ver gaumklavdebi.

sxvaTa Soris, sazogadoebrivi

mauwyeblis biujeti 102

milioni iyo, aqedan 40 milioni saxelmwifosgan

sesxadaa aRebuli.

mokled, es soliduri biujeti

iqiTken unda miimarTos, rom qveynis

TiToeuli moqalaqe informirebuli

iyos. informirebuloba

ki, TavisTavad, dacul sazogadoebasa

da warmatebul qveyanas niSnavs!

ai, am jaWvis Seqmna sazogadoebrivi

mauwyeblis erTi da fundamenturi

mimarTulebaa. amis

paralelurad, sazogadoebrivi

mauwyebeli erTiani da warmatebuli

sazogadoebis mSeneblobaze

unda iyos orientirebuli.

_ rogorc direqtorobis kan-

18

18 N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.


mexotbed qceva aravis gamouva!~

didats, xedvebi am kuTxiTac

gaqvT?

_ ra Tqma unda. dRes qarTul

sazogadoebas sruli frustracia,

depresia, imedgacrueba da arafris

Secvlis survili sWirs, Tumca

yvelaferi es mxolod socialur-ekonomikuri

gaWirvebis Sedegi

araa.

_ aba, kidev risi Sedegia?

_ es swored im sainformacio da

fsiqologiuri omis Sedegicaa,

rasac ruseTi Cven winaaRmdeg

awarmoebs.

_ qalbatono xaTuna, Tqveni

azriT, sazogadoebrivi mauwyeb-

lis xelmZRvaneloba rusul sain-

formacio oms ucodinarobis

gamo ar ebrZoda Tu amas poli-

tikuri sarCuli hqonda?

_ es kompleqsuri problemaa.

_ anu?

_ sazogadoebrivi mauwyebeli

mxolod gasarTobi an, Tundac,

wminda sainformacio tipis televizia

ver iqneba. is im didi miznis

nawili unda iyos, romelzedac

vsaubrob da Tu sazogadoebrivi

mauwyeblis saTaveSi iseTi adamiani

ar mova, romelic strategiulad

azrovnebs da saxelmwifos

winaSe arsebul gamowvevebs, maT

Soris, sainformacio oms ar xedavs,

maSin yvelafer amas ver gaakeTebs.

dRes sazogadoebriv mauwyebelSi

sxva masStabis azrovnebaa

saWiro da ara _ mxolod televiziis

codna da kargi mediamenejeris

unari. dRes am televizias

sxva tipis menejeri sWirdeba,

romelic qveynisa da sazogadoebis

winaSe mdgar gamowvevebs strategiuli

kuTxiT dainaxavs.

am frustrirebuli sazogadoebis

sapirwoned, sazogadoebrivma

mauwyebelma sazogadoebas 21-e

saukunis warmatebuli saqarTvelos

formula masStaburad unda

miawodos. ai, magaliTad, regionebis

mixedviT warmatebuli adamianebi

unda gamoaCinos, magram dRes

Tu rame katastrofa ar moxda, regionebi

saerTod ar Cans. arada, am

dros regionebSi rigiTi adamianebi

warmatebulobis araCveulebriv

magaliTebs gvaZleven.

mokled, sazogadoebrivi mauwyeblis

erT-erTi umniSvnelovanesi

misia frustrirebuli sazogadoebis

warmatebul da sakuTar

TavSi darwmunebul sazogadoebad

gadaqcevac unda iyos!

aseve mniSvnelovania Tanamedrove

teqnologiebiT momavali

TaobebisTvis xelSewyoba _ esec

sazogadoebrivi mauwyeblis pirdapiri

movaleobaa da fuls imitom

vuxdiT, rom Tanamedrove samyaros

_ ekonomikis, teqnologiebisa Tu

Sromis bazris tendenciebi vicodeT.

Cvenma Svilebma, gansakuTrebiT

im regionebSi, sadac interneti

araa, swored sazogadoebrivi

mauwyeblisgan unda gaigon, vTqvaT,

xelovnuri inteleqti an momavalSi

yvelaze warmatebuli profesia

romeli iqneba. amasTan, televiziiT

IT programirebac unda

iswavlebodes. yvelaferi es am qveynis

momaval Taobas warmatebulsa

da konkurentunarians gaxdis.

_ mesmis, magram am kuTxiTac

SegekamaTebian. yovel SemTxveva-

Si, vasil maRlaferiZem, roca

„sazmaus” direqtoroba datova,

Tavisi saqmianobis erT-erT mTvar

miRwevad is daasaxela, rom

„teleskola” gaakeTa...

_ ki batono, „teleskola” aris,

magram aqac ver SemekamaTebian,

`Cven urmiT mivdivarT. sazogadoebrivi mauwyeblis amocana ki is unda iyos,

am urmidn `teslaze~ rogor gadavsxdeT, anu sazogadoebrivma mauwyebelma

mosaxleobas unda daanaxos, rom urmis garda, `teslac~ arsebobs da

adamianebs am `teslaze~ gadajdomis, aseve imis survili da motivacia unda

gauCinos, rom TiToeuli maTgani `teslis~ Semqmneli Tavad gaxdes!~

radgan es proeqti dRes saqarTveloSi

arsebuli ganaTlebis sistemis

sruli asaxva da telesivrceSi

kopirebaa. bevri ram Zalian

kargia, magram am gadacemaSi Tanamedrove

teqnologiebze, xelovnur

inteleqtsa Tu programirebaze

araferia naTqvami.

erTi sityviT, Cven urmiT mivdivarT.

sazogadoebrivi mauwyeblis

amocana ki is unda iyos, am urmidn

„teslaze” rogor gadavsxdeT, anu

sazogadoebrivma mauwyebelma mosaxleobas

unda daanaxos, rom urmis

garda, „teslac” arsebobs da

adamianebs am „teslaze” gadajdomis,

aseve imis survili da motivacia

unda gauCinos, rom TiToeuli

maTgani „teslis” Semqmneli Tavad

gaxdes!

mokled, me, rogorc sazogadoebrivi

mauwyeblis xelmZRvanels,

Semdegi miznebi meqneba: rusul sainformacio

omSi saqarTvelos

sazogadoebis interesebis dacva;

erTian progresze, aRmSeneblobaze,

warmatebasa da Tanamedrove

teqnologiebze orientirebuli

sazogadoebis mSeneblobis xelSewyoba.

_ gegma, gulwrfelad rom

giTxraT, Zalian kargia, magram

viciT, rom „sazmaus” bordi ume-

tesad „ocnebisadmi” loialurad

ganwyobili adamianebiTaa dako-

mpleqtebuli. qalbatono xaTuna,

maT politikur mxardaWeras

rogor moipovebT, miT umetes, im

fonze, roca arsebuli praqtikiT,

am televiziis direqtori aucileblad

xelisuflebasTan daax-

loebuli piri Tu ara, misi

mfarvelobis qveS unda iyos?

_ ki, asea, Tumca mxolod idealistobis

gamo ar gadavwyvite,

rom sazogadoebrivi mauwyeblis

direqtoris konkursSi miviRo

monawileoba.

_ aba, saamisod kidev ra sababi

Tu mizezi gaqvT?

_ saerTod, Zalian pragmatuli

da racionaluri adamiani var da

`socialur qselSi wamosul feikniusebis

niaRvars raRac saitiT ver SeebrZolebi, Tan

aq mxolod socialur qselze ki ara,

aTeulobiT dafinansebul saitzea saubari,

romliTac, sabolo jamSi, feiksainformacio

veli iqmneba, rasac dafinansebuli adamianebis

kohortac emateba. amitomac yvelafer amas

raRac erTi valismosaxdeli vebgverdiT ver

gaumklavdebi~

iciT, ras vakeTeb?

_ ras?

_ am kampaniis farglebSi, minimum,

imis saSualeba meqneba, rom

adamianebma gaigon, Tanamedrove

sazogadoebaSi sazogadoebrivi

mauwyeblis mizani da funqcia ra

aris. garda amisa, sameurveo sabWo-

Si am qveynis moqalaqeebi arian da

maTac unda dainaxon, rom televiziaSi

muSaobis praqtika imis garantia

araa, rom adamianma sazogadoebrivi

mauwyebeli sazogadoebis

samsaxurSi Caayenos, anu SeiZleba,

televiziis kargi muSaki iyo,

magram strategiuli xedvisa da

menejmentis araferi gagegebodes.

mokled, imedi maqvs, rom bordi

Cemi xedvebis upiratesobas dainaxavs,

Tumca es imas namdvilad ar

niSnavs, rom isini sakuTar arCevan-

Si Tavisuflebi iqnebian. asea Tu

ise, me waugebel brZolaSi Sevedi,

radgan sazogadoebas davanaxeb, sazogadoebrivi

mauwyeblis mizani

ra aris da mis mier yovelwliurad

gadaxdili asi milioni raSi unda

dainaxos. sxvaTa Soris, Zalian

saintereso ram moxda.

_ kerZod?

_ Cemi am brZolaSi Sesvlis imdenad

SeeSindaT, rom xelisufleba

bordis wevrebsac aRar endoba

da kenWisyris wess cvlis.

_ anu?

_ pirveli turi 22-Sia _ jer

kenWisyris wess Secvlian da mere

generalur direqtors airCeven.

_ e. i., gendireqtorad arCevis

wess arTuleben?

_ zustad ar vici, Tumca vxvdebi,

rom bordis wevrebze kontrolis

ufro meti meqanizmis Semotanas

cdiloben. sxvaTa Soris, sazogadoebrivi

mauwyeblis generaluri

direqtoris arCevnebs ise

vuyureb, rogorc didi, anu 31 oqtombris

arCevnebis repeticias.

_ aseTi ganwyoba ratom gaqvT?

_ Tu xelisufleba bordis wevrebs

xelebs gadaugrexs da sazmaus

generaluri direqtoris ar-

Cevnebze TavisTvis sasurvel gadawyvetilebas

miaRebinebs, 31 oqtombersac

zustad ase moiqceva _

amomrCevelsac xelebs gadaugrexs.

_ 31 oqtombris arCevnebze „xe-

lis gadagrexaSi” gayalbebas

gulisxmobT?

_ ara marto.

_ aba, kidev ras?

_ rogorc quCis „Savi samyaros”

gamoyenebas, aseve mosyidvasa da a.

S. mokled, sazogadoebrivi mauwyeblis

generaluri direqtoris

arCevnebze miRebuli gadawyvetileba

xelisuflebas „saxes aaxevs”

da kidev erTxel dagvanaxebs, rom

rusuli sainformacio omis winaaRmdeg

arafers ver ki ara, ar ake-

Tebs!

_ qalbatono xaTuna, Tu bor-

dma Tqveni kandidatura Caagdo

da amiT aqamde arsebuli politika

gagrZelda, am viTarebaSi sazogadoebrivi

mauwyeblis arseboba,

anu is, rom weliwadSi asi mil-

ioni gadavuxadoT, azrs xom ar

dakargavs?

_ dRes yvela saxelmwifo uwyeba

xelisuflebis dakveTas asrulebs

da am midgomiT yvelafers

xom ver gavauqmebT? Tu asea, maSin

prezidentis institutis gauqmebiT

unda dagvewyo, iq iseTi gvizis...

_ CvenTvis rom vTqvaT, prezi-

dentis instituti gauqmebulia _

am qalbatons aravin arafers

ekiTxeba...

_ mesmis, magram yvelafers saxelmwifos

gauqmebisken xom ver waviyvanT?

gamosavali brZolaa _ yvelam

sakuTari poziciidan da rwmeniT

unda ibrZolos! sxvaTa

Soris, „feisbuqis” administraciasa

da saqarTveloSi mis partnior

organizacias mivmarTe, rom

am saarCevno kampaniis periodSi

Cemi socialuri gverdebis monitoringi

Caataron.

_ es risTvis dagWirdaT?

_ imis dasadgenad, xelisufleba

CemTan brZolas ra meTodebiTa

da resursiT apirebs. am droisTvis,

albaT, ukve 30-mde „feisbuqgverdi”

davareporte.

_ ratom?

_ feikangariSebi an „ocnebis”

sxvadasxva raionuli organizaciis

warmomadgenlebi aqtiuroben _

isini Cems gamocdilebas, ganaTlebasa

da kvalifikacias aRiareben,

risTvisac maT madlobas veubnebi,

magram iqve amboben, politikurad

angaJirebulia, opoziciuri ganwyobebi

aqvs da rogor SeiZleba, sazogadoebrivi

mauwyeblis direqtori

iyoso.

pirdapir vambob: xuTi adamiani

mainc damisaxelon, romelic arc

erTi xelisuflebisgan arc fuls

iRebda da arc dakveTas asrulebda.

saWiroebis SemTxvevaSi, xelisuflebis,

aseve opoziciis mimarT

kritikulic iyo da obieqturic.

is, rom „qarTuli ocnebis” mexotbed

ar davrCi, mxolod Cemi plusia!

Cemi cxovrebis gzas gadaxedon

da naxaven, rom odesme arc xelisuflebis

kritikis SemSinebia da arc

_ opoziciis. yovelTvis vcdilob,

maqsimalurad obieqturi viyo! am

SemTxvevaSic, anu sazogadoebrivi

mauwyeblis generaluri diretqoris

kandidatis rangSi, sazogadoebis

interesebs warmovadgen.

yvelaferi is, rasac vambob, politikuri

kuTvnilebis miuxedavad,

nebismieri adamianis interesebSia

da amitomac mimaCnia, rom sazogadoebrivi

mauwyeblis damoukidebeli

sainformacio politikis sruli

garanti viqnebi! xelisuflebas

amitomac ar vundivar _ kbili araerTxel

momisinja da Zalian kargad

icis, rom Cemi gatexa, mliqvnelad

da mexotbed qceva aravis

gamouva!

_ mec vaRiareb, rom mxolod

xelisuflebas ki ara, Tu saWiroa,

opoziciasac akritikebT xolme!

mokled, qalbatono xaTuna, war-

matebas gisurvebT!

N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.

19


`dRes saqarTveloSi aranairi

nika maWutaZe axalgazrda pol-

giorgi abaSiZe

itikosi da partia „moZraoba saxe-

lmwifo xalxisTvis” erT-erTi

lideria. sxvaTa Soris, es partia, Tavis droze, paata burWu-

laZem daaarsa, dRes ki aRniSnuli politikuri organizaciis

politikuri lideri deputati nato CxeiZea, romelic „Zala

erTobaSiam” xaSuris, qarelisa da me-16 saarCevno olqSi Se-

mavali goris soflebis maJoritarobis kandidatad daasaxela.

Cveni respondenti, nika maWutaZe, nato CxeiZis saarCevno kam-

paniaSi aqtiuradaa Cabmuli. amasTan, isic aRsaniSnavia, rom

„saxelmwifo xalxisTvis” „Zala erTobaSias” wevri 2018 wlidan,

e. i., am opoziciuri platformis daarsebis dRidanaa.

amasTan, imasac SegaxsenebT,

rom nika maWutaZe da misi par-

tia enm-s iniciativas, rom

arCevnebis Semdeg qveynis pre-

mieri mixeil saakaSvili gaxdes,

mxars uWers, Tumca aq erTi ki

ara, ramenime detalia gasark-

vevi: jer erTi, saakaSvilze

Sida Zebnaa gamocxadebuli, anu

rogorc ki is qveynaSi Camova,

mas daiWeren. meore da mTavari

_ mesame prezidenti saqarTve-

los ki ara, ukrainis moqalaqea.

hoda, TavisTavad sainteresoa,

ucxo qveynis moqalaqe Cveni

premieri rogor gaxdeba?

„qronika+~-ma nika maWutaZes,

romelic oligarqatisa da

arademokratiuli mmarTvelobis

winaaRmdeg, jer kidev, siy-

mawvilidan ibrZvis, cxadia, es

kiTxvebi dausva. amas garda, im-

iTac dainteresda, ra davaleba

aqvs saakaSvilTan da iqneba Tu

ara igi „Zala erTobaSias” pro-

porciul siaSi? _ gTavazobT

intervius nika maWutaZesTan:

_ nika, rogori saarCevno gan-

wyoba gaqvs da ras fiqrob, 31

oqtombers ra moxdeba?

_ winasaarCevno ganwyoba

saukeTesoa _ bevrs davdivar.

_ sad dadixar?

_ davdivar saqarTvelos soflebsa

da qalaqebSi.

_ mere?

_ vgrZnob, vxedav da umTavress

ganvicdi.

_ da es umTavresi ra aris?

_ es umTavresi Cveni xalxis

mtkice nebaa, rom Tavisi saxelmwifo,

Tavisi qveyana daibrunos

da aseve Tavis qveyanaSi TviT

sakuTari Tavi daabrunos!

es ormxrivi procesia.

_ anu?

_ es erTgvari Semxvedrobaa

politikasa da mis Semoqmeds _

saxelmwifosa da mis xalxs

Soris. mokled, am arCevnebs

gaerTianebuli opozicia igebs!

_ amas ris safuZvelze ambob?

_ dro gavida, gadamwyveti

arCevnebi dadga da es arCevnebi

xalxisa da opoziciisaa!

amitomac 31 oqtombers saqarTvelos,

rogorc saxelmwifos,

aRdgenas velodebi. aseve velodebi,

rom xalxi kvlav ganaxorcielebs

da umTavress demokratiul

sakonstitucio Canawers,

rom Zalauflebis wyaro aris

xalxi _ realobad aqcevs! diax,

am saxelmwifos damfuZnebeli

xalxia, romelmac Tavisi samSoblo

uzarmazari SromiTa da

brZoliT damoukidebel saxelmwifod

aqcia!

_ e. i., xalxSi aris gancda,

rom xelisufleba aucileblad

unda Seicvalos?

_ diax, amis gancda mxolod

xalxSi ki araa, aramed saamisod

saxelmwifo _ politikuri nebac

momwifebulia!

`siRaribe swored korufciasa da oligarqiaze

dgas, romelic, Tavis mxriv, farTo gasaqans

aZlevs rekets, Zalmomreobas, mtaceblobas,

qurdobas, mosyidvasa da yovelgvar uzneobas.

yvelafer amas 31 oqtombris arCevnebze

daesmeba wertili~

nika maWutaZe:

`saakaSvili

koaliciur

mTavrobaSi

saqarTvelos

premier-ministris

posts daikavebs!~

_ nika, ar vici, amas ris

safuZvelze ambob, roca igive

kvlevebiT „ocneba” liderobs,

anu Tu xalxs xelisuflebis

Secvla unda, aba, kvlevebis

Sedegebs riT xsni?

_ mTavari kvleva da mTavari

ambavi arCevnebia.

_ diax, magram kvlevebi xom

erTgvarad ganwyobebs asaxavs?

_ arCevnebi xalxis nebasa da

gadawyvetilebas TvalsaCinod

da mkafiod gamoamzeurebs! metic:

mxolod ki ar gamoamzeurebs,

aRasrulebs kidevac. sxvaTa

Soris, am kvlevebSi erTi mniSvnelovani

aspeqtia.

_ ras gulisxmob?

_ es e. w. gadauwyveteli amomrCeveli

da, plus, grafaa _ „uari

pasuxze”. sruli pasuxismgeblobiTa

da aseve codniT vacxadeb,

rom es segmenti opoziciis

mxardamWeria!

_ aseTi darwmunebuli ratom

xar, nika?

_ adamianebi qveyanaSi arsebul

demokratiulobisa da samarTlianobis

xarisxs ar endobian.

_ SeiZleba, magram es yvelafer

zemoTqmulTn ra kavSir-

Sia?

_ am viTarebaSi xalxi saku-

Tari nebisa da poziciis argamJRavnebas

amjobinebs! dRes

saqarTveloSi aranairi „gadauwyveteli”

moqalaqe ar arsebobs!

TiToeul moqalaqes miRebuli

aqvs gadawyvetileba da im gadamwyvet

dRes _ 31 oqtombers

elodeba.

_ vTqvaT, asea, magram iqidan

gamomdinare, rom Senc am qveynis

moqalaqe xar, miTxari, mix-

eil saakaSvilTan ra davaleba

gaqvs?

_ amJamad saakaSvilTan um-

Tavresi davaleba saqarTveloSi

misi dabruneba, qveynis deoligarqizacia

da saxelmwifos safuZvlebis

aRdgenisTvis muSaobis

dawyebaa.

_ ise, axlaxan „Zala erToba-

Sias” kaxa oqriaSvili SeuerTda,

romelic, praqtikulad, bolo

wuTamde „qoci” iyo da amasTan,

proporciul arCevnebsac aprotestebda.

xma dadis, rom oqru-

aSvilTan kolaboraciam „Zala

erTobaSias” reitingze, romeli

gaerTianebis wevri Senc xar,

SesaZloa, cudad imoqmedos.

yvelafers Tavi rom davaneboT,

am adamianebTan medikamentebis

siZvire ilinkeba. mokled, amaze

ras metyvi?

_ kaxa oqriaSvili maJoritarul

olqs moigebs da amaSi

darwmunebuli var!

_ nika, samaJoritaro olqis

mogebaze ar mikiTxavs, Tumca

meCveneba, rom sityvas banze

migdeb. amitom isev saakaSvilis

Temas davubrundebi, anu rogorc

cnobilia, mesame preziden-

ti „nacionalurma moZraobam”

premierobis kandidatad daasax-

ela. miSa rogori prezidenti

iqneba, es sxva Temaa, magram is

ucxo qveynis moqalaqea. hoda,

ra meqanizmi arsebobs, rom ucxo

qveynis moqalaqe saqarTvelos

premieri gaxdes?

_ saqarTvelos mesame prezidentis

winaaRmdeg politikuri

da sruliad samarcxvino devna

Sewydeba.

_ SeiZleba, magram ratom

gaviwydeba, rom saakaSvili

saqarTvelos moqalaqe araa?

_ sagamonakliso wesiT,

saqarTvelos moqalaqeobac

aRudgeba.

_ ar mgonia, prezidentma zu-

rabiSvilma saakaSvils saqarT

arT-

velos moqalaqeoba aRudginos.

_ parlamenti mis kandidaturas

kenWs uyris da saakaSvili

koaliciur mTavrobaSi saqarTvelos

premier-ministris posts

daikavebs! sxvaTa Soris, mixeil

saakaSvilma samarTldamcveli

uwyebebis depolitizaciisa da

adamianis Tavisuflebis konte-

àmJamad saakaSvilTan umTavresi davaleba

saqarTveloSi misi dabruneba, qveynis

deoligarqizacia da saxelmwifos safuZvlebis

aRdgenisTvis muSaobis dawyebaa~

20

20 N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.


`gadauwyveteli~ moqalaqe ar arsebobs!~

qstSi „gauvnebelyofis” realuri,

myari programa warmoadgina.

me Tu mkiTxavT, am iniciativas

ase unda erqvas _ „debolSevizacia”!

_ anu?

_ ramdeni imuSaves, ramdeni

memorandumi iyo, ramdeni Sexvedra

_ arasamTavrobo seqtori,

ucxoeli eqspertebi, politikuri

partiebi, miznobrivi jgufebi

da misTanani, magram aseT

saqmian, realur da usafrTxo

gaazrebas, savsebiT gasageb konkretikas

jer veravin da verc

erTma procesma ver miaRwia.

gakveTili gamotanilia _ es

gakveTili mwarec aRmoCnda da

mtkivneulic, magram konkretuli

Sedegi saxezea _ gaazreba,

romelic erTxel da samudamod

uzrunvelyofs moqalaqisa da

misi Tavisuflebis usafrTxoebas

sistemuri TvalsazrisiT.

danarCeni pirovnuli sakiTxia

_ Tavisufleba yoveldRiurad

Tavidan mosapovebeli iqneba.

ubralod, Tu iohan gotlib

fixtes cnobili Tqmis perifrazs

movixmobT, aseTia Tavisufleba.

moqalaqedac yoveldRiurad

unda Sedge da Tavisuflebac

yoveldRe Tavidan unda moipovo.

es ase iqneba nebismieri xelisuflebis

pirobebSi, nebismier

politikur da istoriul

mocemulobaSi!

aqve imasac vityvi, rom premier-ministris

postze mixeil

saakaSvilis kandidaturas Cveni

partiis Tanxmobac aqvs _ „moZraoba

saxelmwifo xalxisTvis”

mxars uWers gaerTianebuli opoziciis

premierobis kandidatad

mixeil saakaSvils.

araviTari saSualeba ar gvaqvs,

cdebi CavataroT qarTul

saxelmwifoze _ warsul saxelisuflebo

Secdomebze dafiqrebuli

mixeil saakaSvili mTavari

persona da kandidatia ivaniSvilis

winaaRmdeg da aramxolod

ivaniSvilis winaaRmdeg.

_ aba, kidev vis winaaRmdeg?

_ rusuli interesebis mTavari

qarTuli winaaRmdegoba

swored saqarTvelos mesame

prezidents ukavSirdeba.

es arCevnebi mxolod xelisuflebis

cvlilebis ki ara, rusuli

orbitidan samudamod gaRwevis

gadamwyveti droa. swored am

konteqstSia saakaSvilis figurac,

am konteqstSia gaerTianebuli

opoziciis koalicia-bloki

da am konteqstSia is sazogadoebac,

romelic sakuTar Tavs

dasavleTis politikur-samarTlebriv

da kulturul sivrceSi

moiazrebs.

ruseTis imperiaa Cveni mTavari

samizne, ruseTia Cveni mTavari

mteri da yvelaze meti,

didi gamocdileba am brZolaSi,

am xifaTSi swored saakaSvils

aqvs _ qarTuli saxelmwifoebrivi

wvliliT da ukrainuli

epopeiTac maidnidan _ dRemde.

ruseTis mizania, figurebisa

`kaxa oqriaSvili maJoritarul olqs

moigebs da amaSi darwmunebuli var!~

da sruli politikuri personebisgan

dacalos Cveni saxelmwifo

da politika, anu adamianebisgan,

visac pretenzia aqvs istoriaze,

istoriulobaze. Cven ki

piriqiT gvinda.

Cven gvWirdeba piriqiT moqceva

_ saxelmwifos meTauri romelime

meaTexarisxovani logoTeti

ki ar unda iyos oligarqis,

aramed politikuri lideri,

romelsac endobian, romelsac

elodebian Cveni Tanamoqalaqeebi,

Cveni megobrebi, TanamebrZolebi

da romelsac, sxvaTa Soris,

hyavs mtrebic. saerTod, mtrebis

gareSe sakacobrio istoriaSi

mniSvnelovani jer araferi yofila

da ar momxdara.

marionetebis dadgma TeatrSi

kargia. saxelmwifos ki sWirdeba

lideri, gabeduli, gadamWreli

zomebis mimRebi figura, romelsac

SeuZlia konsolidacia mTeli

sazogado energiis _ saqar-

Tvelos damoukideblobisTvis,

aRmSeneblobisTvis da saerTod,

saxelmwifosTvis, romelic ar

SeiZleba, miekuTvnebodes romelime

erT adamians da romelsac

unda gankargavdes xalxi _

tradiciiT, konstituciiT, warsulis

memkvidreobiT, mexsierebiTa

da momavlis interesebiT.

_ yvelaferi es im SemTxveva-

Si moxdeba, Tu „nacmoZraobas”

koaliciur mTavrobaSi xmaTa

umravlesoba eqneba. ise, zogi

varaudobs, rom „strategia aR-

maSenebeli”, anu giorgi vaSaZisa

da Tako Crkvianis tandemi,

Tqvens bloks seriozul mxar-

damWerebs waarTmevs...

_ Cven Cveni amomrCeveli

gvyavs, romelic opoziciuri

amomrCevlis udidesi nawilia.

amasTan, cvlilebebic Cven, anu

Cvens bloks _ gaerTianebul

opozicias ukavSirdeba.

_ vaSaZes ki novaciebi ukav-

Sirdeba... sxvaTa Soris, Tavidan,

anu 2018 wlis saprezidento

arCevnebis win, „Zala erToba-

Sias” 9 wevri hyavda, axla ki

`ruseTis imperiaa Cveni mTavari samizne,

ruseTia Cveni mTavari mteri da yvelaze meti,

didi gamocdileba am brZolaSi, am xifaTSi

swored saakaSvils aqvs - qarTuli

saxelmwifoebrivi wvliliT da ukrainuli

epopeiTac maidnidan - dRemde~

arCevnebze xuTwevriani blokiT

gamodixarT. vaSaZe-Carkvianis

garda, kidev vin gagemijnaT?

_ Sen warmoidgine, gaerTianebuli

opoziciisgan vaSaZe-Carkvianis

tandemic ar gamijnula.

_ bloki datoves da amaze

meti gamijvna raRaa?

_ blokidan es ori subieqti

gavida da aseve ori subieqti

Semovida.

_ nika, opozicias ra meqanizmi

aqvs, rom arCevnebis gayal-

beba ar dauSvas da sakuTari

xmebi daicvas?

_ arCevnebis gayalbebas uwinaresad

Tavad qarTveli xalxi

ar dauSvebs. rac Seexeba opozicias,

jer erTi, moqalaqeTa xmebis

dacvis saerTo Stabi SevqmeniT

da, meorec, vmuSaobT inovaciur

meTodebze. aseve saerTa-

Soriso sadamkvirveblo misiebsac

velodebiT.

_ Tumca koronas gamo saer-

TaSoriso damkvirveblebi Sesa-

Zloa, ar Camovidnen... nika, ra

amis pasuxia da, maJoritarobis

kandidati ratom ar xar an sia-

Si iqnebi?

_ maJoritarobaze uari Tavadve

ganvacxade.

_ ratom?

_ guria ganixileboda da SemoTavazebebic

iyo... rac Seexeba

proporciul nawils, siaSic viqnebi

da saqarTvelos parlamentSic,

Tumca es mTavari savsebiT

araa.

_ mTavari, aba, ra aris?

_ is, rac mTavaria, weRan ukve

mogaxsene...

_ kargi, magram is mainc miTxari,

rogori unda iyos saxelm-

wifo xalxisTvis?

_ piradad me, saxelmwifo mcire

mTavrobiT, dabali gadasaxadebiT,

Rirseuli, damoukidebeli da samarTliani

sasamarTloTi, SeTanxmebuli

RirebulebebiT da am

Rirebulebebze dafuZnebuli konstituciiT

warmomidgenia. am Sem-

TxvevaSi, konstitucia ise ganixileba,

rogorc erTgvari socialuri

kontraqti, gnebavT, sazogadoebrivi

SeTanxmeba im qarTvelebs

Soris, vinc ukve cocxlebi

aRar arian, aseve maT Sorisac,

vinc jer ar dabadebulan da rasakvirvelia,

Tanamedrove qarTvelebs

Sorisac.

_ nika, Zalian rTulad meub-

nebi. modi, martivad miTxari,

rogori unda iyos saxelmwifo

xalxisTvis?

_ qarTuli saxelmwifos mimarTeba

msaxurebiTi unda iyos,

radgan misi ZiriTadi saSinao

Sinaarsi swored aseTia.

_ weRan unda mekiTxa da dam-

aviwyda: miSam arCevnebamde

saqarTveloSi dabruneba ratom

gadaifiqra?

_ saakaSvili maSin dabrundeba,

rodesac misi Camosvla qar-

Tuli saxelmwifos mtrebs insinuaciebis

saSualebas ar miscems!

_ weRan koaliciuri mTavro-

ba axsene da amixseni, CemTvis, am

qveynis rigiTi moqalaqisTvis es

kargi ratom iqneba da ra xeirs

momitans?

_ koaliciuri mTavroba da

koaliciuri umravlesoba Ti-

Toeul Cvengans romelime erTi

piris Tavneba mmarTvelobisgan

dagvicavs! es urTierTSekavebisa

da gawonasworebis mTavari

meqanizmia, rac qarTuli saxelmwifos

realuri Tavisuflebisa

da demokratiisTvis ase Zalian

gvWirdeba.

_ am qveynisTvis siRaribe

ufro didi mteria, korufcia

Tu oligarqia?

_ siRaribe swored korufciasa

da oligarqiaze dgas,

romelic, Tavis mxriv, farTo

gasaqans aZlevs rekets, Zalmomreobas,

mtaceblobas, qurdobas,

mosyidvasa da yovelgvar uzneobas.

yvelafer amas 31 oqtombris

arCevnebze daesmeba wertili.

es uwinaresad arCevania

ruseTsa da dasavleTs Soris,

monobasa da Tavisuflebas Soris,

putinis mokavSireobasa da

dasavlur civilizaciaSi srulfasovan

monawileobas Soris, im

civilizaciaSi, sadac Cvenma xalxma

da Cvenma winaprebma Tavidanve

gansazRvres Cveni saxelmwifos,

Cveni kulturis, Cveni

warsulisa da momavlis erTaderTi

adgili!

N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.

21


ìvaniSvili saqarTveloSi

saqarTvelos

xelisufleba

Sorena marsagiSvili

ruseTis saameblad yvelafers

599 92 16 22

akeTebs. Tuki ruseTidan saxmele-

To gziT saidanme SeiZleba saqarTve

Tvelos teritoriaze moxvedra, yvelgan gzas aSenebs. ruseT-

Tan damakavSirebeli gzis aSenebas gegmavs is mamisonis mima-

rTulebiTac. ramdenime welia, rac CeCneTis meTauri ramzan

kadirovi, romelic Cveni dauZinebeli mteria, saqarTvelosTan

saavtomobilo mimosvlas iTxovs. CeCneTis mxridan saqarTve-

los sazRvramde ukve moyvanilia samanqane gruntis gza. lei-

boristuli partiis erT-erTi lideri, uflebadamcveli laSa

CxartiSvili, eWvobs, rom male es gza gaixsneba. ruseTs moyva-

nili aqvs gza yvarlis raionamdec. CxartiSvili arc am gzis

amoqmedebas gamoricxavs. yvelaze metad misi aRSfoTeba mami-

sonis mimarTulebiT gzis mSeneblobam gamoiwvia. ambobs rom

am gzas mxolod erTi daniSnuleba eqneba _ xeli Seuwyos

ruseTs saqarTvelos teritoriebis okupaciaSi.

599 92 16 22

laSa CxartiSvili:

ratom aris mamisonis gza

mesame rokis gvirabi? ra

niadags uqmnis „qarTuli ocneba”

moskovs saqarTveloSi? ra-

tom dainteresda amerika ase

Zalian saqarTveloSi mimdinare

movlenebiT? _ am Temebis Sesaxeb

„qronika+~-s laSa CxartiS-

vili esaubreba.

_ roca gairkva, rom xelisu-

fleba mamisonis mimarTulebiT

ruseTTan

damakavSirebeli

gzis mSeneblobis dawyebas api-

rebda, Tqven mas mesame rokis

gvirabi uwodeT da xelisufleba

qveynis RalatSi daadanaSau-

leT. ratom aris es gza aseTi

saxifaTo?

_ yvelaze saxifaTo Tavad

„qarTuli ocnebis” moRalateobrivi

politikaa. rusi oligarqis

davalebiT es Zala yvela

mimarTulebiT aSenebs gzebs,

Tuki saidanme SeiZleba ruseT-

Tan dakavSireba. saeWvod afar-

Toeben Satilis gzas. meeWveba,

rom am gzas mxolod imitom

adideben, rom Cvenma mosaxleobam

ufro komfortulad imgzavros.

_ ratom geeWvebaT? SatilSi

bevri adamiani dadis da kargi

gzebi xom saWiroa?

_ es xelisufleba karg gzebs

ar akeTebs, is mxolod im mimarTulebiT

muSaobs, ra veqtoric

ruseTis interesebSi Sedis.

_ Satilis gzis gafarToebac

ruseTis interesebSi Sedis?

_ ra Tqma unda! darwmunebuli

var, am gzis gafarToeba im

proeqts ukavSirdeba, romelic

ramzan kadirovma ramdenime

wlis winaT daiwyo. CeCneTis

mxridan Satilis mimarTulebiT

sazRvramde ukve moyvanilia

gruntis gza. igi, albaT, im gzas

SeuerTdeba, romelsac afarToeben.

amis garda, kidev apirebdnen

erTi saeWvo proeqtis ganxorcielebas.

saubaria yazbegixevsureTi-TuSeTis

damakavSirebeli

gzis mSeneblobaze, romelic

mxolod ruseTis interesebSi

iyo. is saqarTvelos bunebis

ganadgurebis mets arafers

moutanda. am proeqtma Zalian

bevri kiTxva da eWvi gaaCina.

_ savaraudod, amitomac Se-

Cerda es proeqti.

_ jerjerobiT SeCerebulia,

eseni Tu xelisuflebaSi darCnen,

gaacocxleben. ivaniSvili

saqarTveloSi putinisnacvali

rom aris, es sul ufro naTeli

xdeba Cveni sazogadoebisTvis.

amis aRqmaSi amerikelebma qarTvelebs

ajobes. bevrad adre gaSifres

oligarqis rusuli gegmebi,

vidre _ Cven. maT aseT hiperaqtiurobas

swored amas

mivawer. sxva SemTxvevaSi vaSingtoni

CvenSi mimdinare procesebiT

aseTi doziT ar dainteresdeboda.

_ vaSingtonidan mwvave wer-

ilebi imis gamo ar modis, rom

ivaniSvili putinisnacvalia.

amerikelebi aq demokratiis

xarisxis gauaresebiT arian SeS-

foTebulebi...

_ demokratiis xarisxi aq didi

xania, rac gauaresda. „qarTuli

ocneba” mravali welia, rac

adamianis uflebebs arRvevs, magram

vaSingtoni mwvave reagirebisgan

Tavs ikavebda manamde,

sanam ivaniSvilma Riad ar daiwyo

ruseTis davalebebis Sesruleba.

aman dasavleTi Zalian

gaabraza.

anakliis proeqti biZina ivaniSvilma

uSualod ruseTis mo-

TxovniT CaSala. ruseTis miTiTebiT

Seuqmnes saqarTveloSi problemebi

amerikul fronteras.

vaSingtons Tu aqamde raRac

eWvebi hqonda, ukve dainaxa, rom

saqarTvelos xelisufleba ruseTis

interesebs atarebda qveyanaSi.

gadawyvetilebebs aq mxolod

erTi kaci iRebs. amerikelebis

risxvac mas daatyda Tavs.

maRali rangis Tanamdebobis

pirebi oficialur werilebSi

ivaniSvils Riad moixsenieben

ruseTis emisrad da putinis nebis

aRmsruleblad. amerikelebi

amboben, rom oligarqi xels uSlis

saqarTvelos ganviTarebas.

ivaniSvili ukve Tavadac aRar

malavs, rom moskovi misi xeliT

cdilobs saqarTvelos ruseTis

guberniad gadaqcevas.

ruseTis gubernia rom gavxdeT,

srulebiT araa saWiro am

qveynis SemadgenlobaSi Sesvla.

politikuri gavlenebiTac Sei-

Zleba gavxdeT maTi nawili. „qarTul

ocnebas” yvelaferi momzadebuli

aqvs, rom Cveni qveyana

ruseTs Caabaros.

_ Cabareba aseTi martivi ar

iqneba. Tavadac ambobT, rom

rusul relsebze gadasvlas

àmerikelebis

gaaqtiureba

`qarTuli ocnebis~

prorusul kurss

ukavSirdeba~

dasavleTis mwvave reaqcia moy-

va.

_ dasavleTi ivaniSvils yvelanairad

SeuSlis xels, rom

saqarTvelo ruseTis gubernia

gaxdes. ivaniSvili Tavisas mainc

ecdeba. mas moskovTan valdebulebebi

aqvs da isini unda Seasrulos.

yvela Cvengans mwared

axsovs rokis gvirabi, romelic

eduard SevardnaZem aaSena da

saqarTvelos sruli okupaciisTvis

safuZveli moamzada. rokis

gvirabma qarTuli miwebis

okupaciaSi didi wvlili Seitana.

am wlebis manZilze araerTi

agresia vnaxeT ruseTis mxridan.

iyo ramdenime omi, am omebis Sedegad

Cveni teritoriebis 20%

okupirebulia. rusebma es ar ikmares

da axla mavTulxlarTebiT

Robaven Cvens miwas. amaze

xelisufleba xmas ar iRebs.

viciT ra ruseTis buneba, saqarTvelos

nebismieri xelisufleba

valdebulia, yvelaferi

gaakeTos, raTa xeli SeuSalos

im proeqtebis ganxorcielebas,

rac moskovis av zraxvebs sisruleSi

moiyvans. moskovs saqarTvelos

gadaylapva aqvs ganzraxuli.

ivaniSvilisa da „qarTuli

ocnebis” SemTxvevaSi piriqiT

xdeba. saqarTvelos dRevandeli

xelisufleba uamrav vals

iRebs da yovelgvari saWiroebis

gareSe maqsimalurad cdilobs,

gzebi aaSenos ruseTis mimarTulebiT.

arada, am dros uamravi

gzaa dasamTavrebeli. magaliTad,

dausrulebelia Tbilisi-baTumis

magistrali; misaxedia

TuSeTis gza _ TuSeTi

msoflio mniSvnelobis turistuli

adgilia, normaluri

xelisufleba, pirvel rigSi, am

gzas mixedavda. yvelam viciT,

Tu ra rTulia TuSeTis gza. es

gzebi aravis ainteresebs, samagierod,

ruseTis mimarTulebiT

muSaoben didi mondomebiT.

am mimarTulebiT ramdenime

saeWvo proeqtis ganxorcieleba

daiwyes. yvelas gviCndeba safuZvliani

eWvi, Tu ratom cdilobs

saqarTvelo im qveyanasTan

damakavSirebeli axal-axali

gzebis mSeneblobas, romelTanac

diplomatiuri urTierToba

gawyvetli gvaqvs da saomar

ànakliis proeqti biZina ivaniSvilma uSualod

ruseTis moTxovniT CaSala. ruseTis

miTiTebiT Seuqmnes saqarTveloSi problemebi

amerikul fronteras. vaSingtons Tu aqamde

raRac eWvebi hqonda, ukve dainaxa, rom

saqarTvelos xelisufleba ruseTis interesebs

atarebda qveyanaSi. gadawyvetilebebs aq

mxolod erTi kaci iRebs. amerikelebis risxvac

mas daatyda Tavs~

mdgomareobaSi vimyofebiT. safrTxeebs

rom Tavi davaneboT,

es gza saqarTvelos aranair

ekonomikur sargebels ar moutans.

am gziT ixeirebs ruseTi,

somxeTi, TurqeTi, irani.

_ saqarTvelosac xom darCeba

raRac mogeba? ratom ggoni-

aT, rom sargebels ver vnaxavT?

_ raRac Tanxa Cvens biujetSic

Semova, magram es mogeba

iqneba mizeruli, radganac am

gzebis mSeneblobisTvis 1.5-miliardiani

vali aiRo Cvenma saxelmwifom.

rusuli interesi

tardeba xadis SemovliTi gzis

mSeneblobisas. am viTarebaSi Zalian

moulodneli iyo mamisonis

gza, romelic marTla araferSi

sWirdeba saqarTvelos. meeWveba,

vinmem am gziT isargeblos. amitom

vambob, rom mamisonis gza

mesame rokis gvirabia.

_ am mimarTulebiT komu-

nistebis dros gza iyo, xalxi

sargeblobda mamisonis gziT.

_ maSin ra iyo, ar vici, magram

axla am gzas aranairi ekonomikuri

datvirTva ar gaaCnia. mamisonis

gza aris mesame rokis gvirabi.

saqarTvelos xelisufleba

ruseTs, faqtobrivad, samxedro

gzas uSenebs, raTa kremlma

ufro martivad ganaxorcielos

saqarTvelos okupacia. am

proeqts sxva axsna ar aqvs! es

aSkara Ralatia!

_ adgilobrivebi am gzis

mSeneblobas rogor uyureben?

_ mosaxleoba aRSfoTebulia.

socialur qselSi araerTxel

gamoxates TavianTi pozicia, magram

amas reagireba ar mohyolia.

Cveni sazogadoebisTvis es

sakiTxi saintereso ar aRmoCnda.

_ marTlac gaatares es Tema.

mesame rokis gvirabis mSenebloba

ratom ar aRmoCnda sa-

zogadoebisTvis saintereso?

_ Zalian zereled uyureben

am sakiTxs da warmodgena ar

aqvT, Tu ramxela problemis

motana SeuZlia mas saqarTvelosTvis.

arada naTelia, rom am

gzis erTaderTi daniSnulebaa,

ruseTs saqarTvelos okupacia-

Si xeli Seuwyon. igives vityvi

gudauris SemovliT gzazec,

romelic xadis xeobaSi unda

aSendes. mamisonis gzisgan gan-

22

22 N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.


mesame rokis gvirabs aSenebs~

sxvavebiT, iq kidev SeiZleba ra-

Rac mogebaze isaubro, magram es

mogebac aTeuli wlebis Semdeg

iqneba. am gzis mSeneblobisTvis

1.5-miliardiani vali aiRes xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebma.

am vals gadaxda xom unda?! imaze

arafers vambob, rom gzis

mSenebloba xadis unikalur xeobas

Seiwiravs. ganadgurdeba

uamravi koSki. am mimarTulebiT

sxva gzis aSenebac SeiZleboda.

es proeqti, jer kidev, sabWoTa

kavSiris dros Seqmnes. magali-

Tad, ganisas mimarTulebiT gza

ufro mokle iqneboda da arc

xeoba ganadgurdeboda, xadis

xeobas ki gaanadgureben. arada,

turistebisTvis is Zalian sainteresoa.

Cven isic ki ar viciT,

Tu ra memkvidreoba gvaqvs iq.

arqeologiuri kvlevebi xadaSi

arasdros Catarebula. am gzis

mSeneblobas jer ar Cayria

safuZveli da ukve daiwyes Cinuri

samSeneblo kompaniis warmomadgenlebma

Cveni kulturuli

memkvidreobis ganadgureba.

_ ras gulisxmobT, ra gaa-

nadgures?

_ sofel naRvarevSi im eklesiis

gverdiT ganTavsdnen,

sadac 300-ma aragvelma dado

fici. es eklesia kulturuli

memkvidreobis nusxaSia Setanili,

kanonis Tanaxmad mis gverdiT

arafris aSeneba ar SeiZleba.

Cinelebi 70 metris radiusSi

aSeneben 40 saZineblian korpuss.

roca amaze skandali atyda, xelisuflebam

xeli daibana da

xalxsa da muSebs daabrala yvelaferi.

duSeTis meri mosaxleobas

eubneboda, ratom mieciT

saZirkvlis Cayris nebao. arada,

xalxi arafer SuaSia. mSeneblobaze

nebarTvas xelisufleba

gascems.

_ sainteresoa, rom mSenebl-

oba unebarTvod daiwyes.

_ imitom daiwyes, rom icodnen,

nebarTvas miiRebdnen.

_ xalxis protestis Sedegad

es mSenebloba SeCerda.

_ es droebiTia. „qarTuli

ocneba” Tu darCa, naRvarevis

eklesiis gverdiT aucileblad

aSendeba Cinelebis korpusi. Tavis

droze xelisuflebam misca

ivaniSvils nebarTva, rom nariyalis

istoriul zonaSi aeSenebina

Tavisi sasaxle, ivaniSvils

SeeZlo sadme sxvagan, magali-

Tad, naZaladevSi an saburTaloze

wamoeWima rezidencia, magram

man nariyalaze moisurva.

SevardnaZis xelisuflebam mas

amaze uproblemod misca nebar-

Tva. roca istoriul zonaSi

mSeneblobis nebarTva gaicema,

xelisufleba yovelTvis damna-

Savea. vinc istoriul zonaSi

mSeneblobis nebarTvas iRebs,

mis gemovnebasa da sindisze ar

unda iyos damokidebuli, ras

aaSeneben iq. Cvens istoriasa da

bunebas Tavad unda gavufrTxldeT.

sxva amas ar gaakeTebs. samwuxarod,

ivaniSvils arc erTi

ainteresebs da arc _ meore. mis-

Tvis mTavaria fulis Sovna da

`kidev apirebdnen erTi saeWvo proeqtis ganxorcielebas. saubaria yazbegi-

xevsureTi-TuSeTis damakavSirebeli gzis mSeneblobaze, romelic mxolod

ruseTis interesebSi iyo. is saqarTvelos bunebis ganadgurebis mets arafers

moutanda. am proeqtma Zalian bevri kiTxva da eWvi gaaCina~

ruseTis interesebis gatareba.

imedi maqvs, rom xadis proeqti

arCevnebamde ar daiwyeba,

arCevnebis Semdeg ki sul sxva

viTareba iqneba qveyanaSi. xelisufleba

aucileblad Seicvleba

da Sesabamisad Seicvleba

damokidebuleba qveynis istoriisa

da bunebis mimarT. im tipis

politikuri partiebi movlen

xelisuflebaSi, romlebic

okupanti qveynis saqarTveloSi

Semosvlas xels ar Seuwyoben.

_ okupanti qveynis interese-

bis gatarebas, albaT, SeuSlian

xels, magram darwmunebuli

xarT, rom axali xelisufleba

xels ar Seuwyobs gudauris

SemovliTi gzis mSeneblobas?

ase gvegona darialis xeobaSi

hesebzec, romelsac „naciona-

lebi” aSenebdnen. „qarTuli ocneba”

xelisuflebaSi mosvlamde

giganturi hesebis winaaRmdegi

iyo, movidnen Tu ara qvey-

nis saTaveSi, hesebis mSeneblo-

bis aucileblobaze daiwyes

saubari. ra garantia gaqvT, rom

axlac ase ar iqneba?

_ romeliRaca Zalis interesSi

SeiZleba Sediodes xadaze

gamavali SemovliTi gzis

mSenebloba. am SemTxvevaSi amomrCevlis

imedi ufro maqvs,

mjera, rom xalxi karg gadawyvetilebas

miiRebs. gasaTvaliswinebelia

isic, rom xelisuflebis

saTaveSi erTi Zala aRar

mova da koaliciuri mTavroba

daiwyebs marTvas. aseT dros

erTpirovnul gadawyvetilebas

veravin miiRebs.

_ gaaCnia, ra Zalebi iqnebian

koaliciur mTavrobaSi. bevri

rame iqneba damokidebuli, Tu

vin ra proporciiT Seva axal

parlamentSi.

_ es Zalian mniSvnelovani sakiTxia,

magram isic faqtia, rom

ivaniSvili aRar unda darCes

`maRali rangis Tanamdebobis pirebi

oficialur werilebSi ivaniSvils Riad

moixsenieben ruseTis emisrad da putinis nebis

aRmsruleblad. amerikelebi amboben, rom

oligarqi xels uSlis saqarTvelos

ganviTarebas. ivaniSvili ukve Tavadac aRar

malavs, rom moskovi misi xeliT cdilobs

saqarTvelos ruseTis guberniad gadaqcevas~

qveyanaSi. am adamianma Riad aRiara,

rom qveynidan gvipirebda

gayras. Tqva, aq samuSao adgilebs

ver SegiqmniT, gadagamzadebT

da germaniaSi wadiTo.

gagvyrida kidevac, magram pandemiis

gamo misi es gegma CaiSala

da axla qveyana sakoncentracio

banakad gadaaqcia.

sakoncentracio banakSi is

ufro iolad moicilebs mosaxleobis

im nawils, romelic ezedmeteba.

ivaniSvili aucileblad

unda moviSoroT, magram mniSvnelovania,

vin da rogori proporciiT

mova. simboluri koalicia

arafers Secvlis. aseTi

koalicia Tavis droze saakaSvilsac

hyavda. man konservatorebTan

da respublikelebTan er-

Tad Seqmna koalicia. aseTive

koalicia hqonda ivaniSvils

2012 wels. iq respublikelebi,

„ocneba”, „mrewvelebi”, „Tavisufali

demokratebi” da „erovnuli

forumi” Sediodnen. am blok-

Si „ocneba” iyo warmmarTveli,

danarCeni partiebi rusma oligarqma

gamoiyena sakazmad.

axla realuri koalicuri

mTavroba gveyoleba. magram, vimeoreb,

gaaCnia Semadgenlobasac.

amitom vTxov mosaxleobas, kargad

waikiTxos partiebis saarCevno

siebic da dapirebebic.

zogs iseTi dapirebebi aqvs, arafriT

Camouvardeba „qocebs”.

CemTvis ra mniSvneloba aqvs,

tyeebs ivaniSvili gamiyidis Tu

_ „girCi”? arc is minda, rom korumpirebulebi

ar daisajon,

rogorc amis gakeTebas erT-er-

Ti opoziciuri partia apirebs.

_ vin ambobs, rom korumpire-

bulebs ar davsjiTo?

_ erT-erTi partia miiCnevs,

rom adamianebs ekonomikuri danaSaulebis

gamo pasuxi ar unda

vagebinoT. es aris korufciisTvis

xelis Sewyoba. korufcia

danaSaulia. damnaSave Tu ar daisaja,

Cven samarTlebriv qveyenas

verasdros avaSenebT. amitom

kidev erTxel vTxov Tqvens

mkiTxvels, kargad waikiTxos

partiebis saarCevno dapirebebi,

raTa normalur qveyanaSi icxovron.

opoziciur flangSi

Zalian bevri fiqrobs kaxa benduqiZis

msgavsad, rom sindisis

garda yvelafris gayidva Sei-

Zleba. am principiT moqmedeba

dauSvebelia, magaliTad, tyeebis

gayidva ar SeiZleba.

_ ase Zalian ratom apro-

testebT tyeebis gasxvisebas?

_ imitom, rom ar SeiZleba.

bevri Cveni Tanamoqalaqe gaTbobis

saSualebad dRemde SeSas

iyenebs. am Temebs unda gadavceT

sakuTrebaSi tyeebi, magram iqac

unda gakontroldes xeebis Wra.

moWrili xeebis adgilze axali

xeebi unda dairgas. Cveni tyeebi

isedac ganadgurebulia, tyeebis

Cexa ki uamrav ubedurebas

iwvevs, maT Soris, mewyrebs. mas

Semdeg, rac saqarTvelom damoukidebloba

moipova, tyeebis

inventarizacia ar Catarebula.

es arc erTma xelisuflebam ar

gaakeTa, radganac aravis interesebSi

ar Sedioda. mogexsenebaT,

qurds ra unda da bneli Rameo.

Zalian bevrma moiTbo xeli tyeebis

gaCexiT. xalxi Jangbadis

gareSe da mewyruli safrTxeebis

winaSe datoves. Zalian seriozuli

problemebis Segviqmna

biZina ivaniSvilis xelisuflebam.

monRolebic ki ar eqceodnen

dapyrobil qveyanas ise, rogorc

„qarTuli ocneba” eqceva

saqarTvelosa da mis mosaxleobas.

_ monRolebTan „qarTuli

ocnebis” warmomadgenlebis Se-

dareba cota zedmeti xom ar

aris?

_ ara! imitom, rom isinic ki

ar iqceodnen dapyrobil qveynebSi

ase velurad, rogorc

„qarTuli ocneba” iqceva. isini

cdilobdnen, dapyrobil qveynebSi

garkveuli mdgradoba SeenarCunebinaT,

raTa Tavadac mieRoT

iqidan mogeba. cdilobdnen,

im qveynebSi raRac stabiluroba

yofiliyo. es principi

ganviTarebuli parazitis qmedebas

magonebs. ganviTarebuli

paraziti cdilobs, rom ar moklas

maspinZeli da mis xarjze

didxans ikvebos. monRolebic

aseve cdilobdnen, bolomde ar

gaenadgurebinaT dapyrobili

qveyana da iqidan sargebeli mieRoT.

Cveni xelisufleba ki ise

iqceva, rogorc yvelaze ganuvi-

Tarebeli dampyrobeli. spoben

saqarTvelos. cdiloben, rac

SeiZleba moklevadian perspeqtivaSi

srulad gaanadguron

yvelaferi. amiT isini did ekonomikur

sargebels Rebuloben.

saboloo jamSi, am qveynidan

gaiqcevian da sadme sxvagan icxovreben.

samwuxaroa, rom opoziciaSic

gvyavs msgavsi azrovnebis

xalxi. bevrs xelisuflebaSi

yofnis dros aqvs aseTi

rameebi nakeTebi. amitom mesamed

gavimeoreb: amomrCeveli Zalian

yuradRebiT unda iyos, roca

saarCevno ubanze arCevanis gasakeTeblad

miva.

N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.

23


`qveyana am kriziss

korona epidemiiTa da statis-

Sorena marsagiSvili

tikiT gadaRlili saqarTvelo

599 92 16 22

sxva cifrebze gadaerTo. gasul

kviras erTmaneTis miyolebiT

gamoqveynda ramdenime kvleva, romlis Sedegebi, rogorc wesi,

gansxvavdeboda. amas Cveni sazogadoeba da politikosebic

miCveulebi arian, magram mainc atyda Jriamuli. kvlevebis

mixedviT didad saxarbielo Sedegi ar hqonia „erTian

saqarTvelo _ demokratiul moZraobas”. amis miuxedavad, aq

mSvidad Sexvdnen dabal procentebs. partiis erT-erTi

lideri anzor biwaZe „qronika+~-sTan ambobs, rom kvlevebze

yuradRebis gamaxvileba ar Rirs.

ratom ar amarTlebs xolme

arCevnebis win Catarebuli kvlevebis

Sedegebi? ra saintereso

suraTi gamoikveTa qveyanaSi?

ratom ar SeiZleba xelisuflebaSi

„qarTuli ocneb-

is” darCena? ra elodeba Cvens

ekonomikas, Tu xelisufleba ar

Seicvala? _ am Temebis Sesaxeb

„qronika+”-s anzor biwaZe es-

aubreba:

_ gasul kviras ramdenime kv-

leva gamoqveynda. is mkveTrad

gansxvadeba erTmaneTisgan. am

kvlevebTan dakavSirebiT par-

tiebis nawilma pretenziebi

gamoTqva. Tqven ras ityviT, kv-

levebis Tanaxmad, Tqveni partia

„erTiani saqarTvelo _ demokratiul

moZraobis” Sedegebi nam-

dvilad arasaxarbieloa.

_ am kvlevebs aranairi mniSvneloba

ar aqvs, Tu ar CavTvliT

imas, rom politikur elitaSi

politikuri spekulaciis sagani

xdeba xolme. politikuri elitis

iqiT isini didad aravis ainteresebs.

kvlevebis Sedegebi raRaciT

mkiTxaobas hgavs. mosaxleobisTvis

sulerTia, romel kvlevaSi

ramdeni procenti ukavia

ama Tu im partias. es sakiTxi gansakuTrebiT

axlaa uintereso.

_ axla ratom aris uin-

tereso, win xom mniSvnelovani

saparlamento arCevnebi gvelo-

deba?

_ win, marTalia, arCevnebia,

magram axla mosaxleoba sakuTari

problemebis mogvarebiT aris

dakavebuli. koronapandemiis

gamo xalxi Zalian mZime dReSi

Cavarda. es kvlevebi erTmaneTisgan

Zalian gansxvavdeba, magram

erTi ram yvela maTganSi aSkarad

Cans: mosaxleobis 60%-s gadawyvetili

ar aqvs, Tu vis miscems

xmas arCevnebSi. SeiZleba, gadawyvetili

aqvs, magram ar ambobs.

amdeni gadauwyveteli amomrCeveli

saqarTveloSi jer ar

gvyolia. amasTan dakavSirebiT

ramdenime eqsperts vesaubre, romelic

saqarTveloSi mimdinare

politikur procesebs mravali

welia, yuradRebiT akvirdeba.

qarTul politikaSi gamocdili

adamianebis didi deficiti Seiqmna

da kvalificiuri xalxis mosmena

mniSvnelovania. am eqspertebmac

miTxres, rom 2003 wlis

Semdeg maT ar axsovT amdeni gadauwyveteli

amomrCeveli.

Tavad monacemebs rac Seexeba,

erT rames unda mivaqcioT yuradReba,

rom „airaisa” da „endiais”

anzor biwaZe:

`qarTuli ocneba~

xelisuflebaSi

Tu darCa, 90-ian

wlebSi

davbrundebiT~

kvlevebic ki gansxvavdeba erTmaneTisgan.

„endiais” kvlevaSi

„qarTul ocnebas” 17% aqvs, „nacmoZraobas”

_ 5%. sxva partiebi

naxsenebi ar aris, „airais” kvlevebSi

ki sul sxva realobaa. orivesgan

gansxvavebuli suraTi miviReT

„qarTuli ocnebis” dakve-

TiT Catarebuli kvlevebiT. es

kvlevebi telekompania „imedma”

warmoadgina da iq sul sxva saqarTveloa.

xelisuflebis dakveTil kvleebSi

Zalian kargad Cans xolme

raRac-raRacebi. magaliTad,

rodesac opoziciur partiebs

procentebis zrda ufiqsirdebaT,

amis ukan faruli kavSirebis

SesaZlebloba dgas. xelisufleba

kidev daukveTs kvlevas da am

kvlevis Sedegebis mixedviT SegviZlia

ganvsazRvroT, Tu vin Sei-

Zleba iyos biZina ivaniSvilis

sateliti. amis gamocnoba Zalian

mniSvnelovania, radganac mosaxleobis

motyuebis ufleba aravis

unda mieces. adamianma SeiZleba

Tavisi simpaTiebidan gamomdinare

Semoxazos romelime opoziciuri

partia da radgan is xelisuflebasTan

iqneba garigebuli, sinamdvileSi,

41 nomrisTvis gamouvides

xmis micema. rac Seexeba

Cvens dabal maCvenebels, es Cven-

Tvis arafers niSnavs. yvela arCevnebze

gvqonda aseTi maCvenebeli,

magram minimum samjer met

xmas viRebdiT. ase rom, amisgan

aranair tragedias ar vqmniT. aseT

pirobebSi muSaobasa da brZolas

miCveulebi varT. bevrad uaress

pirobebSic gvimuSavia, ase

rom, es dabali maCveneblebi Cvenze

aranairad ar imoqmedebs. gadavwyviteT,

rom ariTmeTikaSi ar

SevalT, sanam 31 oqtombris 20.00

saaTze ar daixureba ubnebi da ar

daiwyeba xmebis daTvla.

_ am daTvlisgan kargs ar

elodebiT, radganac mTeli

opozicia SeTanxmdiT, rom xmeb-

is dasacavad ibrZolebT.

_ Seiqmna xmebis dacvis saer-

To opoziciuri Stabi, sadac yvela

opoziciuri partiis warmomadgeneli

aris gawevrianebuli.

Cven yovelkvira vikribebiT da

vmsjeloT, Tu ra unda gavake-

ToT. xmebis dasacavad seriozulad

vTanamSromlobT. yvelanair

darRvevasa da manipulaciebs gamovkveTT.

amas gavakeTebT rogorc

arCevnebis dRes, aseve arCevnebamde.

magaliTad, „qarTuli

ocneba” TaRliTuri gziT apirebda

profesiuli niSniT dasaniSni

wevrebis adgilze sakuTari aqtivistebis

an maTi colebisa da

biZaSvil-mamidaSvilebis daniSvnas.

es Zalian seriozuli dar-

Rveva iyo. es arCevnebis gasayalbeblad

gadadgmuli nabiji gaxldaT

da amaze saTanado reagireba

movaxdineT.

Cven Tu davinaxavT, rom romelime

partias xmebs paraven an

„qarTuli ocnebis” satelitebs

privilegirebul mdgomareobaSi

Caayeneben, maSin yvela opoziciuri

partia, rogorc erTi, protests

gamoxatavs.

aRar davuSvebT, rom xelisuflebam

xalxs arCevani moparos.

aseTi rame ukve araerTxel gaakeTa

ivaniSvilma: magaliTad, 2016

wels, roca Cvens partias biuletenebi

mopara. maSin didi raodebiT

biuleteni irakli alasanias

partiasac mopares. amas „qar-

Tuli ocneba” 2020 wlis arCevnebze

veRar gaimeorebs, radgan

opozicia erTiani ZalebiT SeewinaaRmdegeba.

àm kvlevebs aranairi mniSvneloba ar aqvs, Tu

ar CavTvliT imas, rom politikur elitaSi

politikuri spekulaciis sagani xdeba xolme.

politikuri elitis iqiT isini didad aravis

ainteresebs. kvlevebis Sedegebi raRaciT

mkiTxaobas hgavs. mosaxleobisTvis sulerTia,

romel kvlevaSi ramdeni procenti ukavia ama

Tu im partias. es sakiTxi gansakuTrebiT

axlaa uintereso~

opoziciis garda arCevnebis

moparvas arc xalxi dauSvebs.

yvela xvdeba, Tu ra mZime viTarebaSi

Sedis qveyana. dRes saqarTvelo

arakompetenturi, gamoucdeli

da arakeTilsindisieri xalxis

xelSia. krizisi nel-nela gviaxlovdeba

da am viTarebaSi warmoudgenelia,

rom qveyana isev

„qarTulma ocnebam” marTos.

kargad vici, rom Cveni moqalaqeebis

dRis wesrigi yoveld-

Riuri problemebiT daxunZlulia,

magram 31 oqtombers maT

arCevnebze wasasvlelad dro

unda gamonaxon. aravis vTxov,

rom Cems partias misces xma, amomrCevels

movuwodeb, rom gamadidebeli

SuSiT daakvirdes partiebs

da ise gaakeTos arCevani.

axla Secdomis daSveba saqarTvelos

Zalian Zvirad daujeba.

cnobili ekonomistebi erTxmad

amboben, rom ganviTarebul

qveynebSi 3-dan 5 wlamde gastans

ekonomikuri krizisi, rac koronapandemiam

gamoiwvia. ganvi-

Tarebad qveynebSi is ufro didxans

gagrZeldeba. win Zalian mZime

wlebi gvelodeba da kargad

unda davfiqrdeT, Tu vis xelSi

iqneba Cveni qveynis momavali.

xelisuflebis mxridan vxedavT

Zaladobas, Zalian uxeS

darRvevebs, magram erTi ram

TvalSi sacemia _ „qarTuli ocneba”

cinikurad udgeba im problemebs,

rac dRes mosaxleobis

winaSe dgas. am partiis namdvili

saxe aris ekonomikis ministri

naTia Turnava. is iseT sakiTxze

cruobs cinikurad, romelic yvela

adamianisTvis sasicocxlod

mniSvnelovania. misi tyuili ras

SeiZleba Sevadaro? es imis tolfasi

iqneba, xval saqarTvelos

prezidenti rom gamovides da Tqvas,

saqarTvelos teritoriuli

mTlianoba aRdgao. naTia Turnava

gvimtkicebs, rom saqarTvelos

ekonomikas araferi sWirs. amtkicebs,

rom Turme laris kursis

aseTi meryeoba normaluri procesia.

savaluto resursebis amxela

xarjvis fonze mainc ver xerxdeba

laris vardnis SeCereba

da ranairad aris es normaluri

procesi? laris vardnis SeCereba

imitom ver xerxdeba, rom Cveni

ekonomika mTlianad dangreulia.

isedac ra gvqonda da amaT

sul CamoSales. savaluto rezervebs

imisTvis ki ar xarjaven,

rom problemebi moagvaron, aramed

arCevnebis gadagorebaze fiqroben

mxolod. nebismieri adamiani,

vinc saqarTveloSi Rebulobs

raRac Semosavals, ufro Raribia,

vidre ramdenime Tvis win

iyo.

saSinlad izrdeba umuSevarTa

armia, am mimarTulebiT namdvili

katastrofaa. aseTi ekonomikuri

gundi da erovnuli bankis xelmZRvaneloba

Tu kidev darCa

qveyanaSi, CaTvaleT, rom gasuli

saukunis 90-ian wlebSi davbrundebiT.

partiuli kuTvnilebisa Tu

asakis miuxedavad, yvela adamians

vTxov, rom kargad dafiqrdnen,

24

24 N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.


marto ver gaumklavdeba~

vis miscemen xmas 31 oqtombers.

win Zalian cudi periodi gvelodeba.

mTeli msoflios masStabiT

qariSxali axlovdeba. mgoni, yvela

xvdeba, rom qariSxlis dros

Zalian didi mniSvneloba aqvs

imas, Tu vin iqneba gemis kapitani.

samSvidobos gasvla gamocdili

kapitnis gareSe SeuZlebeli iqneba.

imedia, Cveni amomrCeveli sa-

Tanado gadawyvetilebas miiRebs.

_ win marTla bevri gamowveva

gvelodeba, magram es ramdenad

aiZulebs amomrCevels, miiRos

swori gadawyvetileba? Cvens

amomrCevels bevrjer aqvs Sec-

domebi daSvebuli.

_ mgonia, rom xalxi swor

gadawyvetilebas miiRebs. arCevnebis

Sedegad miviRebT koaliciur

mTavrobas, romelic saqar-

Tvelos Zalian sWirdeba. yvelam

unda gaiTvaliswinos erTi rame:

Cvennairi qveyana aseT ekonomikur

kriziss marto veraviTar SemTxvevaSi

ver gaumklavdeba. saerTaSoriso

Tanamegobrobam naTlad

dagvanaxa, rom erTi kacis

araformalur mmarTvelobasTan

ar apirebs TanamSromlobas.

ukve veRarc viTvli, Tu ramdeni

gancxadeba gakeTda amasTan

dakavSirebiT. zogierTma pirdapir

Tqva, rom ar iTanamSromleben

oligarqiul mmarTvelobasTan,

zogierTma ki iribad migvaniSna

amaze. gafrTxileba diplomatiuri

wyaroebiTac miiRo

qveyanam. aseT krizisSi saqarTvelo

marto ver gadarCeba. mas

Zalian mWidro TanamSromloba

sWirdeba donor saerTaSoriso

organizaciebTan. „qarTuli ocnebis”

pirobebSi aseTi Tanam-

Sromloba gamoricxulia. donorebma

Riad gviTxres, rom isini

erTi kacis jibeSi Casmul

mTavrobasTan ar iTanamSromleben.

isini iseTi tipis mTavrobasTan

iTanamSromleben, rogoris

Camoyalibebasac opozicia

apirebs.

_ koaliciur mTavrobas

gulisxmobT? _ opozicia aseTi

mTavrobis formirebis pirobas

debs.

_ koaliciur mTavrobaze

mogaxsenebT. dRes aseTi mTavroba

gansakuTrebiT sWirdeba saqarTvelos.

mTavrobaSi Tanamdebobebze

adamianebi profesionalizmis

gaTvaliswinebiT unda dainiSnon

da ara imis mixedviT, Tu vin

romel partias warmoadgens.

_ koliciuri mTavrobis

formirebisas opoziciis rigeb-

Si uTanxmoeba mosalodneli ar

aris?

_ koaliciuri mTavrobis dakompleqteba

martivi ar iqneba.

amaze, ra Tqma unda, debatebi

gaimarTeba. imazec iqneba dava,

Tu vin ra kvota unda miiRos. es

Cveulebrivi ambavia da aman aravin

unda gaakvirvos. mTavrobaSi

aris sakvanZo Tanamdebobebi, sadac

adamianebi kompetenciis

mixedviT unda dainiSnon.

_ ra Tanamdebobebi migaCniaT

sakvanZod?

`naTia Turnava gvimtkicebs, rom saqarTvelos ekonomikas araferi sWirs.

amtkicebs, rom Turme laris kursis aseTi meryeoba normaluri procesia.

savaluto resursebis amxela xarjvis fonze mainc ver xerxdeba laris

vardnis SeCereba da ranairad aris es normaluri procesi? laris vardnis

SeCereba imitom ver xerxdeba, rom Cveni ekonomika mTlianad dangreulia~

_ magaliTad, ekonomikis ministri,

finansTa ministri. am postebze

im partiebidan unda davniSnoT

adamianebi, romlebsac

yvelaze kompetenturi kadrebi

eyolebaT. SesaZlebelia isic,

rom am postebze adamianebi moviwvioT.

sabednierod, saqarTveloSi

arian kadrebi, romlebic am

mZime viTarebaSi saTaveSi Caudgebian

konkretul mimarTulebebs.

dRes es gaxlavT qveynis gadar-

Cenis erTaderTi gza. yvelanairi

parametriT, yvelanairi cifrebi-

Ta Tu makro da mikroekonomikuri

daTvlebiT saqarTvelos ekonomika

brundeba gasuli saukunis

90-ian wlebSi. Cven ar gvaqvs imis

fufuneba, rom ukan davbrundeT

da rac aqamde uwvalia qveyanas,

yvelaferi wyalSi gadavyaroT.

kidev erTxel vTxov mosaxleobas,

rom arCevnebze swori nabiji

gadadgas. arCevanis gakeTeba

arasdros araa saxumaro saqme.

dRes ki gansakuTrebul mdgomareobaSi

varT da dafiqreba gvmarTebs.

am kriziss Tu ver gavarTmevT

Tavs, kidev erT Taobas

davkargavT, rogorc es Cemi Taobis

SemTxvevaSi moxda. ukan Tu

àravis vTxov, rom Cems partias misces xma,

amomrCevels movuwodeb, gamadidebeli SuSiT

daakvirdes partiebs da ise gaakeTos arCevani.

axla Secdomis daSveba saqarTvelos Zalian

Zviri daujeba~

davbrundiT, verc xalxi iqneba

kargad, verc opozicia da verc

_ xelisufleba.

_ opoziciisa da xalxis ra

giTxraT, magram xelisuflebaSi

isev „ocneba” Tu darCa, iseni

namdvilad kargad iqnebian. ax-

lac seriozuli krizisia, maram

Tavs Zalian laRad grZnoben.

_ xelisuflebaSi myofebis

kargad yofna fardobiTi naTqvamia.

Tu adamians iseTi mentaliteti

gaqvs, rom SenTvis suler-

Tia, xalxi ra dReSia, maSin yvela

droSi kargad iqnebi, magram roca

xelisuflebaSi xar da TvalnaTliv

xedav, Tu rogor gengreva

qveyana Tavze, ar mesmis, ra

komfortma unda gaakeTos imis

kompensireba, rom amaze pasuxismgebloba

ar igrZno? dRevandeli

xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebi

arsebul krizisSi imitom

grZnoben Tavs kargad, rom

gamoucdelebi arian. maT politikasTan

axlos Cavlilic ki ar

hqondaT, ise aRmoCndnen maRal

postebze. erT dRes oligarqi

movida xelisuflebaSi da yvelaferi

Seicvala. am oligarqma

Tavisi surviliT SearCia adamianebi

da zogs ra saministro Caabara,

zogs _ ra. man kadrebi ministrebis

postebze arsaidan

moiyvana. arsaidan mosulebs ki

ver mosTxov, rom arsebul simZimeebze

pasuxismgebloba igrZnon.

maT verc imas mosTxov, rom saxelmwfoebrivad

iazrovnon. aseTi

adamianebi qveyanas verc krizisidan

gamoiyvanen da verc swor

gzaze daayeneben. maTTan arc gvaqvs

pretenziebi. arsebul vi-

Tarebaze biZina ivaniSvils unda

movTxovoT pasuxi. igi dRes am

qveynis absoluturi mmarTvelia,

mas yvela sakvanZo Tanamdebobaze

arakompetenturi kadrebi

hyavs daniSnuli.

_ es Segnebulad gaakeTa?

_ am adamianma gadawyvita, rom

ama da am pirisTvis Caebarebina

ministris posti. misTvis naklebad

mniSvnelovani iyo, hqonda Tu

ara mas raime kompetencia. qveynisTvis

kargi rom sdomoda da

mis ganviTarebaze yofiliyo orientirebuli,

kompetentur kadrebs

SearCevda. aviRoT Tundac

premier-ministr giorgi gaxarias

magaliTi. dRes mTeli „qarTuli

ocnebis” partaqtivi gaxarias

reitings aris amofarebuli.

_ gaxarias ra reitingi aqvs,

rom amofarebodnen?

_ pandemiis dros maRla aiwia

misi reitingi. sxvebTan SedarebiT

mas marTlac maRali reitingi

da ndoba aqvs. am adamians saer-

Tod ar vicnob da arc raime wyena

malaparakebs, magram saTqmeli

unda iTqvas: batoni gaxaria

xelmZRvanelobda da xelmRvanelobs

saqarTvelos mTavrobas.

mas Semdeg, rac qveyana am krizisSi

Sevida, is Cveulebriv komendantad

gadaiqca.

_ komendantad ratom gadaiq-

ca?

_ ratom da dReSi xuTjer mainc

atarebda brifings. mxolod

imas gaiZaxoda, amas davketav, imas

gavaReb, mere Secvlida da ityoda,

imas davketav, amas gavaRebo.

adamians premieris posti ekava da

sakomendanto Stabis ufrosis

movaleobas asrulebda.

mTavrobis meTaurs sul sxva

rame unda gaekeTebina. mTavrobac

sxvanairad unda moqceuliyo.

gaxarias unda moexdina samedicino,

samxedro da ekonomikuri mimarTulebebis

koordinacia.

krizisuli viTarebis dros efeqtian

koordinacias Zalian didi

mniSvneloba aqvs. giorgi gaxaria

ki dReSi xuTjer atarebda brifingebs

da imas gviyveboda, Tu ra

Caketa da ra gaaRo.

amasobaSi aravis gaaxsenda,

rom moewviaT ekonomikis dargebis

specialistebi, visTan erTadac

gaakeTebda mTavroba moklevadian,

saSualovadian da grZelvadian

antikrizul gegmebs. Cvens

saerTaSoriso donorebs es gegmebi

rom daenaxaT, saqarTvelo

kidev ufro did daxmarebas miiRebda.

maTi daxmarebis wyalobiT

laris kursi ase ar gaufasurdeboda.

gegmebis SemuSavebaze

arc ki ufiqriaT. samagierod,

Zalian moewonaT, qveyana rom

gadaketes.

amis Sedegad miviReT dangreuli

ekonomika. mTavrobas dRemde

qveynis krizisidan gamosayvani

aranairi gegma ar warmoudgenia.

ekonomikis dangrevis paralelurad

isic miviReT, rom koronainficirebulTa

ricxvi izrdeba.

xalxi veRar xvdeba, roca dReSi

7 kaci iyo inficirebuli, qveyana

Caketes da axla, roca dReSi 200

inficirebuli vlineba, qveyana

Riaa. 200 inficirebulis SemTxvevaSi

Tu SeiZleboda qveynis

arCaketva, maSin ratom Caiketa

gazafxulze yvelaferi da ratom

dagvaqcies saxelmwifo Tavze? _

es legitimuri kiTxvaa da mas

yvela svams. xelisufleba nacadi

xerxebiT cdilobs arCevnebis

gadagorebas. arCevnebis gadasagoreblad

savaluto rezevebs

absoluturad gauTvlelad isvris

haerSi, aseve manipulirebs

koronavirusiT. Cemi sityvebi

daimaxsovreT, es „qarTul ocnebas”

Zalian Zvirad daujdeba.

politikuri miznebisTvis pandemiis

gamoyeneba borotebaa!

_ am pandemiis momizezebiT

arCevnebs xom ar gadadeben?

amaze ramdenime Tvis win ukve

isaubra irakli kobaxiZem.

_ winaswar Zalian Znelia imis

gansazRvra, Tu ras moimoqmedebs

„qarTuli ocneba”. eg aris zustad

Cveni qveynis problema, rom

misi xelisufleba gaugebrad da

araadekvaturd iqceva. imdenad

gaumWvirvale xelisufleba mar-

Tavs qveyanas, rom arCevnebze saubarsac

ki ar aqvs azri. Cven ar

viciT, xval ra xasiaTze gaiRvi-

Zebs ivaniSvili. ras moimoqmedebs

igi, arc mTavrobis wevrebma ician.

axla, samwuxarod, yvelaferi

erTi kacis nebazea miSvebuli. am

yvelafris miuxedavad, amomrCevelze

bevri ramea damokidebuli,

maT Soris isic, Tu rogori

iqneba xval laris kursi. ase

rom, yvela kargad unda dafiqrdes,

sanam ama Tu im partiis

Semoxazvas gadawyvets.

N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.

25

giorgaZis es formula Sesa-

Zloa, bevrs utopiad moeCvenos,

magram TiToeulma Cvenganma kargad

icis, rom saqarTveloSi

politika erTgvari biznesia, anu

adamianebi partiul mrwamss imis

mixedviT icvlian, Tu romel

politikur Zalas aqvs gamarjvebis

Sansi. Sors rom ar wavideT,

amis naTeli magaliTia „afTiaqari”

kaxa oqriaSvili, romelmac

17-wliani maJoritaruli

beqgraundisas politikuri

msoflmxedveloba araerTxel

Seicvala _ jer „naci” iyo, mere

„gaqocda”, axlaxan ki, roca dainaxa,

rom „ocneba” SesaZloa, umravlesobaSi

veRar movides, isev

miSas kalTas amoefara.

ise, oqriaSvilsa da mis msgavsad

moazrovneebs SesaZloa,

kovzi nacarSi CauvardeT. yovel

SemTxvevaSi, mamuka giorgaZe

Cvens gamocemasTan saubrisas

ambobs, rom „ocnebas” xelisuflebaSi

mesame vadiT darCenis

Sansi aqvs.

amasTan, vrcel interviuSi

„saxalxo partiis” lideri bibliur

noes araeTxel axsenebs da

acxadebs, rom Tu xalxma rwmena

da Tavisufleba ar daibruna, am

qveyanas araferi eSveleba.

rogor unda davibrunoT rw-

mena da ratom unda davayenoT

yoveldRiur

socialur-

ekonomikur problemebze maRla

iseTi fundamenturi Rirebule-

bebi, rogoric Tavisufleba,

ganaTleba, patiosneba da Sro-

maa? _ gTavazobT intervius

„saxalxo partiis” lider mamu-

ka giorgaZesTan:

_ batono mamuka, did poli-

tikaSi brundebiT, anu, rogorc

gavige, „saxalxo partia”

arCevnebSi monawileobas mi-

iRebs, ara?

_ diax, asea.

_ im fonze, roca politikur

bazarze „dinozavrebis” siWar-

bea, 31 oqtombers risi imedi

gaqvT?

_ pirvel rigSi, imas getyviT,

ra amocanac gvaqvs.

_ aba, miTxariT, gismenT.

_ dRes saqarTvelos saxelmwifoebrivi

da istoriuli mas-

Stabis amocanebis Sesaxeb, samwuxarod,

erTi tribunidanac ki

araferi ismis!

_ „istoriuli mniSvnelobis

amocanaSi” ras gulisxmobT?

_ im qarTuli politikuri

azrovnebis xelaxali propagandireba,

romelic, jer kidev,

26


`saqarTveloSi sabWoTa

is qarTuli politikis erT-

giorgi abaSiZe

erTi uxucesia, anu politikaSi,

jer kidev, maSin CaerTo, roca

sruliad axalgazrda iyo da roca qveyanaSi mxolod erTi _

komunisturi partia arsebobda. Sesabamisad, bevri ramis momswre

da mnaxvelia. albaT, amitomacaa, rom wlevandel sapar-

lamento arCevnebze „saxalxo partia” gansxvavebuli taqtikiT

gamodis. es gansxvavebuli taqtika ki isaa, rom mamuka giorgaZ-

es gamarjvebis iluzia ar aqvs, Tumca „qronika+~-sTan ambobs,

rom arsebobs Sansi, 31 oqtombers umaRles sakanonmdeblo

organoSi ori an sami iseTi mebrZoli da profesionali adami-

ani moxvdes, romelic klanebisgan Tavisufali iqneba da, Sesa-

bamisad, amiT partiebis monopolistobasac wertils dausvams.

ilia WavWavaZis mier daiwyo da

miznad isaxavs: saxelmwifoebrivi

institutebis Camoyalibebasa Tu

lustraciis kanonis miRebas;

agenturis politikuri moednidan

gayvanas; aseve afxazeTisa

da samaCablos Temebis wina planze

wamowevas; samoqalaqo seqtorTan

eklesiis partniorobas.

sxvaTa Soris, mxolod kanonebis

revizia ki ara, bolo 30-wliani

periodi politikurad da samarTlebrivad

unda Sefasdes,

erTiani erovnuli amocana ganisazRvros

da am sakiTxze diskusia

daiwyos. mokled, bevria

iseTi sakiTxi, romelzedac sxva

politikuri Zalebi ar saubroben

da ZiriTadi yuradReba

pirovnebebis dapirispirebazea

gadatanili. sxvaTa Soris, sxvebisgan

kidev imiT ganvsxvavdebiT,

rom xalxs maincdamainc Cvens

Tavs ar vTavazobT.

_ maS, eleqtorats vis an ras

sTavazobT?

_ xalxs gzas vTavazobT, anu

yvelas veubnebiT, batonebo, Tu

yvelaferi, rasac Cven vambobT,

TqvenTvis misaRebia, maSin Cven

mzad varT, maT gavyveT, vinc am

amocanebs ukeTesad da Rirseulad

Seasrulebs, oRond darwmunebulni

unda viyoT, rom es adamianebi

am Temebsa Tu sakiTxebs

zustad iseve daicaven, rogorc

Cven wlebis ganmavlobaSi

vicavdiT! dRes saqarTvelos

damoukidebloba Rirebuleba

aRar aris, rac ubedurebaa.

Tavisufleba ki, rogorc pavle

mociquli brZanebda, borotis

TavSesafaria. amitom Cven gvinda,

swored am sakiTxebze gavamaxviloT

yuradReba.

sxvaTa Soris, maSin, roca patara

biWebi viyaviT da Cvens

saqmianobas sionis sakurTxevelTan

viwyebdiT, yvelaferi es

uperspeqtivo iyo. amitom mxolod

Cven ki ara, mTeli sabWo-

Ta disidentebi aseT sadRegrZelos

vambobdiT xolme, _ Cvens

uimedo saqmes gaumarjoso!

_ imis Tqma gindaT, rom Tqve-

ni saqme axlac uimedoa?

_ ara, piriqiT, dRes ufro

metad Tavdajerebulebi varT da

aqedan gamomdinare, imedianadac.

Cveni ganvlili cxovrebidan Tu

politikuri gamocdilebidan

gamomdinare, sazogadoebisTvisac

ufro metis Tqma SegviZlia.

arCevnebze swored ai, am amocanebis

Sesasrulebald mivdivarT.

danarCeni ki uflis nebasa da

imazea damokidebuli, Tu ramde-

mamuka giorgaZe:

`dRes

qveyanaSi

uniWoTa

doRia!~

ni adamiani gaacnobierebs, rom

qveynis winaSe aseTi mniSvnelovani

amocanebi dgas.

_ jer erTi, politikaSi uf-

lis imedi maincdamainc ar unda

gqondeT. meorec, qveyanaSi umZ-

imesi socialuri fonia da aseT

dros, mgoni, Znelia, adamianebs

maRal materiebze esaubroT.

Sesabamisad, ar geCvenebaT, rom

Tqvens am patriotul suliskv-

eTebas, romelic, cxadia, kargia,

amomrCeveli da igive poli-

tikuri speqtri ar gaiziarebs?

_ didi madloba am SekiTxvisTvis,

radgan aqcenti sworad

dasviT, magram iciT, ra xdeba?

_ ra?

_ xalxs unda gavagebinoT, Cveni

problemebi swored iqidan

modis, rom am sakiTxebze aravin

saubrobs. Cven dRes zustad

igive gzas gavdivarT, rac, Tavis

droze, udabnodan gamosulma

ebraelma erma gaiara da bolos,

Tavisufali saxelmwifo aaSena.

diax, am gzaze problemebic iyo

da SimSilic. metic, am gzaze

adamianebi iTxovdnen, monobaSi

dagvabruneT, radgan maSin Weri

mainc gvqondao, magram xalxis

mcire jgufma sazogadoeba

daarwmuna, rom yvela sikeTis

motana mxolod Tavisuflebas

SeuZlia! sxvaTa Soris, Tavis

droze, roland reiganis saprezidento

gamosvlam piradad Cemze

Zalian didi zegavlena moaxdina.

maxsovs, maSin reiganma Tqva, aSS

warmatebuli imitomaa, rom am

qveyanaSi eris, berisa da adamianis

SemoqmedebiTi genia yvelaze

metadaa daculi, anu yvelas

Tavisufleba garantirebuliao.

`saqarTveloSi TiTqmis yvelanairi klasteri

gaCnda - partiebis, mediskosebis, sportsmenebis,

magram erTaderTi, risi klasteric ar gaCnda,

eklesiaa! nuTu, amaze meti saswauli kidev rame

undaT?! erTi sityviT, dRes rwmenisa da

sakuTari Tavis dajerebis deficiti gvaqvs.

gvinda, rom viRac kerpebma mogvitanon da pirSi

lukma Cagvidon, magram es ar moxdeba! bolos

da bolos, xom unda davrwmundeT, rom merab

kostava marTali yofila da ara - is xuTi

milioni adamiani, romelic mas dascinoda!~

diax, warmateba Tavisuflebasa

da profesionalizms moaqvs. sanam

Tavisuflebi da profesionalebi

ar viqnebiT, mudam viSim-

SilebT!

_ geTanxmebiT, magram ar da-

gaviwydeT, rom Tqven arc

reigani xarT da miT umetes, arc

_ mose. hoda, xalxs rogor

daarwmunebT, rom Tavisufleb-

isTvis SimSili unda moiTminos?

_ pretenzia arc maqvs, rom

mose an reigani var, magram xom

gaxsovT, faraonma, romelmac

gaigo, rom ebraelebs Tavisufleba

undodaT, rac gaakeTa? _

Cvens enaze rom vTqvaT, maT Sromis

pirobebi daumZima da gadasaxadebi

gauzarda, raTa socialur

problemebSi CaZirul

xalxs Tavisuflebaze ar efiqra.

qarTul sazogadoebas movuwodebT,

rom am magaliTze

davfiqrdeT! es istoriulad

dadasturebuli faqtia. ise,

saqarTvelos, eklesiis saxiT,

mose hyavs da zustad ise ebrZvian

mas, rogorc maSin moses

ebrZodnen. Cven is adamianebic

gvyavs, romelTac, jer kidev, 50

wlis winaT sjerodaT, rom

saqarTvelo damoukidebeli

iqneboda. maSin sxvebi am adamianebs

qilikiT uyurebdnen, dascinodnen,

amasxaravebdnen da

iWerdnen! ase iyo Tu ise, am adamianebis

daxmarebiTa da msoflio

tendenciebis gaTvaliswinebiT,

saqarTvelom damoukidebloba

mainc moipova.

dResac, Tu gvinda, rom saxelmwifo

avaSenoT, yoveldRiur

problemebs unda vZlioT! mosaxleobis

usafrTxoebisa da

keTildReobis garanti swored

saxelmwifo institutebia! Tavis

droze, mose sinas mTaze ufal-

Tan salaparakod wavida. mSierma

ebraelebma ki, romlebic saWmel-

Si fuls ar ixdidnen, oqro mo-

Zebnes, kerpi rom CamoesxaT. 30

welia, Tavisuflebis gzaze ki ar

mivdivarT, kerpebs vasxamT da

moses, anu eklesias, romelic

26 N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.


kavSiri unda davasruloT!~

ufals elaparakeba, ar vusmenT!

ise, yvelafer amis naTeli magaliTi

koronapandemiaa.

_ anu?

_ saqarTveloSi TiTqmis yvelanairi

klasteri gaCnda _ partiebis,

mediskosebis, sportsmenebis,

magram erTaderTi, risi

klasteric ar gaCnda, eklesiaa!

nuTu, amaze meti saswauli kidev

rame undaT?! erTi sityviT, dRes

rwmenisa da sakuTari Tavis dajerebis

deficiti gvaqvs. gvinda,

rom viRac kerpebma mogvitanon

da pirSi lukma Cagvidon, magram

es ar moxdeba! bolos da bolos,

xom unda davrwmundeT, rom merab

kostava marTali yofila da

ara _ is xuTi milioni adamiani,

romelic mas dascinoda!

_ CvenSi darCes da, dRes

saqarTveloSi ori kerpia _

ivaniSvili da saakaSvili.

_ patara kerpebic arian.

_ vis gulisxmobT?

_ partiebis Tavmjdomareebs.

_ ki, namdvilad asea, magram

„kerpunebs” Tavi gavaneboT da

miTxariT, ori didi kerpis dam-

sxvrevas, anu imas rogor

apirebT, rom 31 oqtombris

arCevnebis Semdeg qarTuli sa-

zogadoeba kvlav „nacebad” da

„qocebad” ar gaiyos?

_ rwmeniT, brZoliT, swavli-

Ta da SromiT! yvela erma,

romelmac Tavisuflebas miaRwia,

swored es gza gaiara.

_ mesmis, magram 31 oqtombramde

arcTu didi droa dar-

Cenili da am periodSi xalxs,

minimum, rwmena rogor unda

daubrunoT?

_ Cveni fsiqologia sxvebis

fsiqologiisgan gansxvavdeba.

_ ukacravad, es ra SuaSia?

_ 1977 wels, roca patara

biWebma es saqme daviwyeT, arCevnebze

saerTod ar vfiqrobdiT,

anu warmodgenac ki ar gvqonda,

rom damoukidebel saqarTvelo-

Si arCevnebze gavidodiT. metic,

imaSic ki eWvi gvepareboda, rom

rogorc alali da Rirseuli

adamianebi saqarTvelos damoukideblobis

gamocxadebamde mivaRwevdiT,

magram maSin gvwamda

da axlac gvwams.

_ risi gwamdaT da gwamT, ba-

tono mamuka?

_ Tu „saxalxo partia”

arCevnebSi xmebs axla ar miiRebs,

maSin Cvenze ukeTesebi xval movlen,

romlebic am gzas gaagr-

Zeleben, radgan swori es gzaa!

Tqven, ra, ggoniaT, rom merab

kostavas an romelime sxva disidents

sjeroda, cixidan gamosuls

Tavisufali saqarTvelo

damxvdebao? _ ara, magram weRandeli

Tqmisa ar iyos, swori gza

Sroma, garja, swavla da locvaa

da ara _ imaze fiqri, erTi kerpi

meoriT rogor CavanacvloT!

dRes qveyanaSi uniWoTa doRia.

politikas Tavi rom davaneboT,

ra, Tqven Cemze ukeTesad ar

iciT, rom JurnalistikaSic zustad

asea? _ is anazRaureba, rasac

uniWo Jurnalistebi iReben,

niWieri, mcodne da gamocdili

ìse, arsebobs Sansi, rom ori-sami Zlieri da ukontrolo mebrZoli rogorme

gaZvres. yovel SemTxvevaSi, erTprocentiani barieri amis Sanss iZleva da imis

albaTobac arsebobs, rom dRes arsebuli monopolisturi garemo dairRves.

amasTan, imasac velodebi, rom axal parlamentSi is istoriuli sakiTxebi,

razedac weRan visaubre, dadgeba. CvenSi darCes da, 20 welia, `saxalxo partia~

parlamentSi araa da am xnis ganmavlobaSi sakanonmdeblo organoSi

afxazeTisa da samaCablos sakiTxi erTxelac ar ganxilula!~

Jurnalistebis anazRaurebas

SeadareT da naxavT, uniWos ni-

Wierze ramdeniT meti anazRaureba

aqvs!

_ batono mamuka, sityvam fi-

nansebi moitana da, „saxalxo

partiasTan”, Tundac saarCevno

kampaniis dafinansebis mizniT,

biznesi saTanamSromlod modis?

_ ara!

_ ratom?

_ biznesic am orpolusiani

samyaros nawilia. dRes warmatebulebi,

Tu amas warmateba hqvia,

is biznesmenebi arian, romlebic

saxelisuflebo klanebTan TanamSromloben.

aqve erT mniSvnelovan

detals gavusvam xazs:

saqarTveloSi e. w. ruseTumeoba

imitom ki araa, ase vTqvaT, warmatebuli,

rom yvela agentia,

ubralod, sabWoTa sistema komfortulia

da awyobT.

_ vis awyobs?

_ Tundac, biznesmenebs, anu

isini fiqroben, Tu „pirvelTan”

N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.

`yvelam xom Zalian kargad viciT, rom im

partiebis ukan, romlebic televiziiT

gamodian, sxvadasxva klani an e. w. biznesmeni

dgas. yvelaferi is, rac axla xdeba,

Cveulebrivi speqtaklia - biZina ivaniSvili im

partiebs afinansebs, romlebic mas agineben!~

urTierTobas gavarkvev, fuls

advilad viSovio. ai, swored ase

iyo sabWoTa kavSirSi da axlac

asea. amitom es sabWoTa kavSiri

unda davasruloT! niWierebi

adrec da axlac iSviaTad Canan!

_ e. i., dRes saqarTveloSi

mentaluri sabWoTa kavSiria?

_ diax, asea. rac Tavi maxsovs,

aseTi mentalobaa _ eklesia sibnelisken

migvaqanebs, dasavleTi

gvryvnis, partia ki Cveni mesaWeao.

adre aseTi gamonaTqvami

arsebobda: partiam brZana, komkavSirma

upasuxa, ariso! ai, dResac

swored asea _ erTi rames ityvis

da danarCeni pasuxobs, _ aris!

erTi sityviT, Tu sabWoTa mar-

Tvis am stils ar davamTavrebT,

Cven perspeqtiva ar gveqneba. Sesabamisad,

axalgazrdebi xels

iqneven, nihilizmi uCndebaT da

qveynidan niWieri adamianebi garbian,

radgan ician, rom am sistemaSi

wesieri ver gaixarebs! es mxolod

uniWoebis, avantiuristebisa

da TaRliTebis sistemaa.

sxvaTa Soris, dRevandelisgan

gansxvavebiT, sabWoTa sistema

Zlieri iyo da igive wnexic meti

arsebobda. amitom maSin Zlieri

maRalCinosnebic iyvnen, Tumca

inaurs maTi ar eSinoda. axla ki,

radgan sustia da dabali materialuri

resursi aqvs, sistemas

Zlieri pirovnebis nebismier

adgilas, Tundac sakuTar partiaSi

yofnis eSinia.

_ batono mamuka, usityvod

geTanxmebiT, rom am qveyanaSi

niWier adamians aravin axarebs,

magram weRan gkiTxeT da ar mi-

pasuxeT, amitom CagekiTxebiT:

31 oqtombrisgan ras elodeb-

iT?

_ Cemi gamocdilebis kacma

namdvilad icis da SemiZlia, im

140 Tu 145 adamianis sia axlave

CamogiweroT, vinc parlamentSi

garigebebis Sedegad moxvdeba!

ise, arsebobs Sansi, rom orisami

Zlieri da ukontrolo mebrZoli

rogorme gaZvres. yovel

SemTxvevaSi, erTprocentiani

barieri amis Sanss iZleva da imis

albaTobac arsebobs, rom dRes

arsebuli monopolisturi garemo

dairRves. amasTan, imasac

velodebi, rom axal parlamentSi

is istoriuli sakiTxebi, razedac

weRan visaubre, dadgeba.

CvenSi darCes da, 20 welia, „saxalxo

partia” parlamentSi araa

da am xnis ganmavlobaSi sakanonmdeblo

organoSi afxazeTisa da

samaCablos sakiTxi erTxelac ar

ganxilula!

_ Tqveni dakvirvebiTa da

prognoziT, „ocnebas” aqvs San-

si, rom xelisuflebaSi mesame

vadiTac darCes?

_ diax, aqvs.

_ damisabuTeT, ase ratom

fiqrobT?

_ yvelam xom Zalian kargad

viciT, rom im partiebis ukan,

romlebic televiziiT gamodian,

sxvadasxva klani an e. w. biznesmeni

dgas. yvelaferi is, rac

axla xdeba, Cveulebrivi speqtaklia

_ biZina ivaniSvili im partiebs

afinansebs, romlebic mas

agineben!

_ Tu yvelaferi speqtaklia,

aba, arCevnebs raRa azri aqvs,

batono mamuka?

_ jer erTi, brZolas azri

yovelTvis aqvs _ piradad CemTvis

brZolas azri 1977 welsac

hqonda da axla, 2020-Si, miT

umetes, _ aqvs! meorec, arsebobs

Sansi, rom parlamentSi ori-sami

Tavisufali adamiani Sevides da

es monopolisturi sistema

rogorme daasrulos!

es partiebi Zlierebi monopolistur

garemoSi arian, magram

sakmarisia, parlamentSi ori-sami

mebrZoli da profesionali adamiani

moxvdes da es monopolisturi

sistemac damTavrdeba! ai,

roca monopolisturi klanebi

erTmaneTs daesevian adgilobrivi

arCevnebis dros, anu 2021

wels, imis Sansi ufro didi iqneba,

rom realur warmatebas mivaRwioT!

„saxalxo partia” 31

oqtombris arCevnebze swored am

taqtikiT gadis da amis Sesaxeb,

xom xedavT, xmamaRla da Riadac

vambob!

_ batono mamuka, piradad

Tqven Tu gaqvT Sansi, rom axal

parlamentSi im or-sam adamian-

Tan erTad moxvdeT, romelic

partiul monopolias CamoSlis?

_ amas vcdilobT... mokled,

gza, romelzedac vsaubrob, Cveni

privatizebuli araa. es gza

Cvenma didma winaprebma dagvitoves.

amitom yvelas movuwodebT:

mobrZandiT da am gzaze

erTad viaroT! saerTod, aucilebeli

araa, rom problemebi

or-sam weliwadSi uceb mogvardes.

bolos da bolos, daviT aRmaSenebelma

Tbilisi Tavisi mefobis

30-e wels daibruna. ase

rom, yvelaferi taqtikis sakiTxia!

_ bolos, batono mamuka, mix-

eil saakaSvils ras daavalebT?

_ miSasTvis ramis davalebas

azri ar aqvs.

_ ratom?

_ mas Zalian kargad vicnob...

zogadad, xalxis SekveTaze

saubari komunisturi midgomaa.

_ komunisturi midgoma ra

SuaSia, roca demokratiis RerZ-

ic swored xalxis SekveTaa?

_ mesmis, magram maxsovs, 9 Tu

10 wlis viqnebodi, televizorSi

rom movismine, xalxis moTxovni-

Ta da xalxze zrunviT Saqari

gaZvirdao. ai, axlac zustad asea

_ „xalxis SekveTas” amofarebuli

politikuri partiebi mxolod

sakuTar piar-teqnologiebze

fiqroben.

es unda dasruldes da yvela

partiam xalxs sakuTari Tavi, anu

is unda SesTavazos, Tavad ra

unda. merab kostava da Cven cixeSi

xalxis SekveTis gamo ar mivdiodiT.

Cven vambobdiT, rom

damoukidebloba gvindoda da

roca es xalxmac moindoma, damoukideblobas

yvelam erTad mivaRwieT!

27


unitazebis didi deficiti sabavSvo baRebSi

ori wlis winaT, adreuli da

Tamar rostiaSvili

skolamdeli dawesebulebebis ax-

577 10 07 06

ali reforma, romlis ganxorcielebac

saqarTvelos mTavrobam

municipalitetebTan erTad daiwyo, sabavSvo baRebis gaer-

Tianebebis daSalasa da TiToeuli saaRmzrdelo dawesebuleb-

is calke iuridiul pirad Camoyalibebas iTvaliswinebda.

reformis farglebSi, aseve sabavSvo baRebis TanamSromlebs

aRmzrdel-pedagogis statusi unda miniWebodaT. cvlilebebi

or etapad daigegma da, ra Tqma unda, arsebuli viTarebis

gaumjobesebas iTvaliswinebda.

aRniSnuli reformirebis sakiTxi

2020 wels unda dasruldes,

anu darCenil sam TveSi. saqarTvelos

yvela sabavSvo baRSi dagegmilia

avtorizaciis procesi, rac

imas niSnavs, rom sabavSvo baReb-

Si Semowmdeba, Tu ramdenad gaiTvaliswines

maT axali reformis

Sedegad SemuSavebuli miTiTebebi.

Tu sam weliwadSi sabavSvo

baRi ver daakmayofilebs saganmanaTleblo

kuTxiT SemuSavebul

moTxovnebs da baRis TanamSromlebs

ar eqnebaT aRmzrdel-pedagogis

statusi, aseve Tu dawesebulebaSi

ar iqneba mowesrigebuli

kvebis obieqtebi, saZineblebi,

sapirfareSoebi da ar iqneba infrastruqturulad

mowesrigebuli,

am SemTxvevaSi sabavSvo

baRs SeuCerdeba funqcionirebis

ufleba.

ra Seicvala am xnis ganmavlobaSi

da rogori viTarebaa saqarTvelos

baga-baRebSi?

„qronika+~ gTavazobT saxalxo

damcvelis angariSs, romel-

ic gaeros bavSvTa fondis meTva-

lyureobiT aris gakeTebuli.

2020 wlisTvis saqarTveloSi

funqcionirebs 1481 sajaro sabavSvo

baRi, sadac iricxeba 150

930 aRsazrdeli. kvlevam moicva

Tbilisisa da saqarTvelos 10 regionis

51 municipalitetis qalaqebSi,

dabebsa da soflebSi, maT

Soris, maRalmTian regionebSi

arsebuli 143 skolamdeli bagabaRi.

sabavSvo baRebis absoluturi

umravlesoba ganTavsebulia magistralidan

da sxva saxis damabinZurebeli

wyarodan Zalian axlos.

Semowmebuli sabavSvo baRebis

15,4% funqcionirebs kerZo

saxlSi an mis mxolod ramdenime

oTaxSi, sacxovrebel korpusSi,

Zveli ambulatoriisa Tu sakrebulos

SenobaSi. sabavSvo baRebis

SenobebSi arasakmarisi farTobiT

gamowveul gadatvirTulobaze

sabavSvo baRebis gaerTianebaTa

didi nawili _ 62,1% miuTiTebs.

sakmarisi farTobis ararsebobis

gamo sabavSvo baRebis 10,7%-Si

mxolod 2-3 wlis asakobrivi

jgufis aRsazrdelebs aZineben,

xolo Semowmebuli sabavSvo baRebis

Senobebis 3,7%-s saerTod ar

hqonda saZinebeli oTaxi. erTgan

saZinebeli sivrce sabavSvo baRis

direqtoris kabinetSi iyo mowyobili.

miuxedavad imisa, rom 2014

wlis Semdeg aRniSnul dawesebulebebSi

viTareba mniSvnelovnad

aris gaumjobesebuli, kvlav gamowvevad

rCeba mTeli rigi sakiTxebi.

kerZod, baRebis gadatvirTuloba

da kadrebis arasakmarisi

raodenoba. aseve erTeuli gamo-

`monitoringis Sedegad gamoikveTa ramdenime

SemTxveva, rodesac Senobis kedlebi, Weri da

iataki ise iyo dazianebuli nestisgan, rom

gausaZliss xdida oTaxSi sunTqvas.

gamovlinda iatakis dazianebis, lursmnebis

amosvlis, filebis Cavardnis SemTxvevebic, rac

safrTxis Semcvelia aRsazrdelTaTvis~

naklisebis garda, sabavSvo baRebi

ar aris morgebuli SezRuduli

SesaZleblobis mqone pirTa

saWiroebebze. sabavSvo baRebis

absolutur umravlesobaSi ezoebi

ar aris garTobisa da dasvenebisTvis

mowyobili, ar aris inventari,

rac SesaZlebels gaxdida

bavSvebisTvis sxvadasxva aqtivobis

Catarebas. inventaris ararsebobis

sakiTxi gansakuTrebiT

iCens Tavs saZineblebis, saaRmzrdelo

da sasadilo oTaxebSi.

sabavSvo baRebi iSviaTad

maragdeba sakmarisi raodenobis

Sesabamisi saTamaSoebiT. aseve

kvlavac ver xerxdeba sveli

wertilebis aRsazrdelTa raodenobisa

da asakobrivi jgufis Sesabamisad

mowyoba, imaze rom araferi

vTqvaT, rom isev gamowvevad

rCeba sveli wertilebis Tbili

wyliT uzrunvelyofis sakiTxi.

sabavSvo baRebis 34%-Si iricxeba

SezRuduli SesaZleblobis

mqone aRsazrdeli, Tumca dawesebulebaTagn

mxolod 14.2%-s hyavs

specialuri pedagogi. TanamSromelTa

gancxadebiT, aRsazrdelTa

mSoblebi Tavad arian SvilebisTvis

specialuri saganmanaTleblo

saWiroebis statusis mini-

Webis winaaRmdegni. isini moiTxoven,

rom maTma Svilebma iseTive

„swavleba” gaiaron, rogorc ara

SSm bavSvebma. es ki garkveul problemebs

qmnis. mSoblebTan konfrontaciis

Tavidan aridebis

mizniT, sabavSvo baRis TanamSromlebi

ver mimarTaven verc socialur

muSakebs, garda ukiduresi

mdgomareobisa, rodesac Tavad

veRar marTaven aRsazrdelis

qcevas.

problemuria mcirewlovnebisTvis

sabavSvo baRebis geografiuli

xelmisawvdomobis sakiTxic.

kerZod, soflebis mxolod mcire

nawilidan (13,75%) Tu xerxdeba

aRsazrdelebis transportireba

axlomdebare sabavSvo baRSi. garda

imisa, rom transportirebas

abrkolebs soflebs Soris didi

manZili, damabrkolebeli faqtoria

municipalitetebis midgomac,

romlis mixedviTac, aRsazrdel-

Ta transportireba ar aris im

SemTxvevaSi saWiro, Tu administraciuli

erTeuli araerT

sofels aerTianebs.

Semowmebuli sabavSvo baRebis

53,8%-is SemTxvevaSi, sabavSvo ba-

Rebis 19.2%-Si dazianebuli iyo

kedlebi da iataki, xolo, SemTxvevaTa

3.8%-Si SekeTebas saWiroebda

Senobis eleqtrogayvaniloba.

monitoringis Sedegad gamoikveTa

ramdenime SemTxveva, rodesac

Senobis kedlebi, Weri da

iataki ise iyo dazianebuli nestisgan,

rom gausaZliss xdida

oTaxSi sunTqvas. gamovlinda

iatakis dazianebis, lursmnebis

amosvlis, filebis Cavardnis

SemTxvevebic, rac safrTxis Semcvelia

aRsazrdelTaTvis. ramdenime

SemTxvevaSi, kerZod, 4.5%-

Si, gansakuTrebiT soflebSi, gaTbobis

centraluri sistemis

ararsebobis gamo, sabavSvo baReb-

Si SeSis Rumels iyeneben, Tumca

gaTvaliswinebuli ar iyo usafrTxoebis

zomebi.

aRniSnuli dawesebulebebis

sakmaod did nawils _ 45,5%-s,

ezo saerTod ar aqvs. gansakuTrebiT

mwvavea viTareba im sabavSvo

baRebSi, romlebic sacxovrebel

korpusSia ganTavsebuli. aseT

SemTxvevaSi aRmzrdelebs bavSvebi

axlos mdebare skverSi gahyavT.

adgilobrivi municipalitetis

mier gaweuli samuSaoebis miuxedavad,

sveli wertilebi mainc ar

aris gamarTuli. maT bsolutur

umravlesobaSi _ 88,7%-Si, sveli

wertilebi ganTavsebulia Senobis

SigniT, magram danarCen SemTxvevaSi

_ sabavSvo baRis ezoebSi

moqmedebs erTi sapirfareSo, sadac

erTi an ori Turquli tipis

jamia ganTavsebuli.

`ramdenime SemTxvevaSi, kerZod, 4.5%-Si,

gansakuTrebiT soflebSi, gaTbobis centraluri

sistemis ararsebobis gamo, sabavSvo baRebSi

SeSis Rumels iyeneben, Tumca gaTvaliswinebuli

ar iyo usafrTxoebis zomebi~

saqarTvelos mTavrobis #485

dadgenilebiT, erTi unitazi

unda iyos yovel 10-12 gogonaze

da erTi unitazi yovel 10-20 bi-

Wze, aseve erTi pisuari yovel 20

biWze, erTi xelsabani yovel 20

bavSvze. tualetis kabinis zomebi

unda iyos 80 110 sm., xelsabani

niJarebi unda iyos 55,5 sm. kvlevam

gamoavlina iseTi SemTxvevac,

rodesac 2-3 wlis asakis jgufis

sapirfareSoSi saerTod ar iyo

mowyobili kanalizaciis sistema

da aRsazrdelebs mSoblebis motanili

Ramis qoTnebiT uxdebodaT

sargebloba. dawesebulebebis

5% saerTod ar aris uzrunvelyofili

Tbili wyliT, xolo

25.5%-Si es sakiTxi mxolod nawilobriv

aris mowesrigebuli. ramdenime

SemTxvevaSi sabavSvo baR-

Si mxolod kvebis bloks miewodeboda

Tbili wyali, aRsazrdelebs

ki civi wyliT uxdebodaT sargebloba.

aseve gamoikveTa SemTxveva,

rodesac SenobaSi Tbili wylis

sistemis ararsebobis gamo wyals

saaRmzrdelo oTaxSi, SeSis

Rumelze, saTlebiT acxelebdnen.

sabavSvo baRebis 69%-is arc

erT sapirfareSoSi ar aris gancalkevebulad

gamoyofili sivrce

gogonebisa da biWebisTvis,

xolo sabavSvo baRebis nawilSi _

25%-Si, es sakiTxi mxolod zogierT

jgufSia mogvarebuli. baRebis

did nawilSi _ 37,1%-Si, unitazebis

simaRle saerTod ar

Seesabameba aRsazrdelTa asakobriv

jgufs. magaliTad, gamovlinda

SemTxveva, rodesac aRsazrdelTa

asakisTvis Seuferebeli

zomis unitazze damagrebuli iyo

xis dasadgami mowyobiloba. bavSvebi

zed dgebodnen da Semdeg ise

Tavsdebodnen unitazze.

sabavSvo baRebis gaerTianebebi

yovelwliuri biujetisa da

sabavSvo baRebSi arsebuli saWiroebebis

mixedviT adgenen samoqmedo

gegmas, romelSic sabavSvo

baRebis saWiro inventariTa da

saTamaSoebiT uzrunvelyofis sakiTxic

aris gawerili. miuxedavad

amisa, problemaa inventaris aRsazrdelTa

asaksa da saWiroebebTan

Seusabamobis sakiTxic. magaliTad,

ramdenime SemTxvevaSi,

patara asakis aRsazrdelebs, didi

zomis magidebTan misawvdomad,

erTmaneTze dadgmul or skamze

svamdnen. rig SemTxvevebSi ki saa-

Rmzrdelo da sasadilo oTaxeb-

Si idga mZime skamebi da magidebi

maxvili kideebiT. zemoaRniSnuli

maCvenebeli kidev ufro maRalia

(73%) Rsazrdelebis saTamaSoebTan

mimarTebiT. xSirad dawesebulebaSi

saTamaSoebi aRsazrdelebis

mSoblebs moaqvT. es imiTac

aris gamowveuli, rom saTamaSoebi

droulad da periodulad ar

axldeba. kerZod, sabavSvo baRebis

62.9%-Si saTamaSoebis ganaxleba

da Sevseba xdeba mxolod weliwadSi

erTxel, isic 18,5%.

aRmzrdelebis gancxadebiT, axali

saTamaSoebic, umeteswilad,

uxarisxoa da male ziandeba.

rac Seexeba kvebis sakiTxs:

kvebis process skolamdeli aRzrdisa

da ganaTlebis dawesebulebebSi

saTanado yuradReba eqceva.

yvela sabavSvo baRs winaswar

aqvs gawerili 10-dRiani an orkviriani

meniu.

Tumca, aq rCeba erTi mniSvnelovani

momenti: sabavSvo baRebis

nawilSi _ 5,2%-Si, saerTod ar

aris an mxolod nawilobriv aris

gaTvaliswinebuli (16.9%) kvebis

procesSi SezRuduli SesaZleblobis

mqone bavSvTa saWiroebebi.

magaliTad, wvnianis Wamisas

mSobeli akiTxavs aRsazrdels da

exmareba kvebis procesSi.

baga-baRebSi arsebuli sasmeli

wyali unda akmayofilebdes „sas-

28

28 N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.


da Ramis qoTnebiT morbenali mSoblebi

àdgilobrivi municipalitetis mier gaweuli

samuSaoebis miuxedavad, sveli wertilebi

mainc ar aris gamarTuli. maT bsolutur

umravlesobaSi - 88,7%-Si, sveli wertilebi

ganTavsebulia Senobis SigniT, magram

danarCen SemTxvevaSi - sabavSvo baRis ezoebSi

moqmedebs erTi sapirfareSo, sadac erTi an

ori Turquli tipis jamia ganTavsebuli~

meli wylis teqnikuri reglamentis

damtkicebis Sesaxeb” saqarTvelos

mTavrobis dadgenilebas.

monitoringisas gamovlenil im

ramdenime sabavSvo baRs (4.4%),

romelTac Tavad ar aqvT sasmelad

vargisi wyali, sabavSvo

baRebis gaerTianebebi amaragebs.

Tumca erT SemTxvevaSi Tanam-

Sromlebi iZulebuli iyvnen,

aduRebuli wyali gamoeyenebinaT,

radgan maTi gancxadebiT, Senoba-

Si arsebuli wyali sasmelad

uvargisia, xolo sabavSvo baRebis

gaerTianeba maT wyliT ar amaragebs.

gamoikveTa SemTxvevebi,

rodesac laboratoriuli analizis

Sesaxeb dokumentis Tanaxmad,

wyali ar iyo Semowmebuli

ramdenime iseT mniSvnelovan maCvenebelze,

rogoric aris, magaliTad,

baqteria E.coli. am mxriv,

skolamdeli aRzrdis dawesebulebebis

gaerTianebebs ar aqvT

erTiani midgoma da ar arian zustad

informirebulni imis Sesaxeb,

Tu ra monacemebiT unda

Semowmdes sasmeli wyali. sxvaoba

gansakuTrebiT didia qalaqisa da

soflis sabavSvo baRebs Soris.

sabavSvo baRebis umravlesoba-

Si narCenebi yoveldRiurad

gaaqvT axlomdebare urnaSi. erTi

SemTxvevaa, rodesac nagvis urna

sabavSvo baRTan ar iyo ganTavsebuli.

am baRis TanamSromlebi

narCenebs ezoSi arsebul saTavso

oTaxSi inaxaven, kviris bolos

ki dagrovili narCenebi dasufTavebis

samsaxuris manqanas

miaqvs. ramdenime Semowmebuli

dawesebulebis SemTxvevaSi, sanagve

urnis ararsebobis gamo, nagavs

axlomdebare xevSi yrian an

wvaven.

sabavSvo baRSi miRebisas aucilebelia

janmrTelobis cnobis

wardgena. es cnobebi sabavSvo

baRSi an sabavSvo baRebis gaer-

TianebaSi inaxeba. miuxedavad

amisa, kvlevisas gamoikveTa SemTxveva,

rodesac sabavSvo baRis

direqtori mSoblebs ar avaldebulebda

janmrTelobis cnobis

mitanas, rasac imiT xsnida, rom

janmrTelobis cnobis aReba,

romelic garkveul TanxebTan

aris dakavSirebuli, uWirdaT

ekonomikuri sirTuleebis mqone

im ojaxebs, romlebsac socialurad

daucvelis statusi ar hqondaT.

amasTan, sabavSvo baRebis

personalTan gasaubrebisas gamoikveTa,

rom xSir SemTxvevaSi

janmrTelobis cnoba ar iZleva

saWiro informacias aRsazrdelis

janmrTelobis Sesaxeb, magaliTad,

bavSvis kvebiTi alergiis

an gansakuTrebuli saWiroebis

Sesaxeb. sabavSvo baRebis 22.4%-Si

gamovlinda iseTi SemTxvevebic,

rodesac aRsazrdelis mdgomareoba

gauaresda, xolo misi janmrTelobis

raime problemis Sesaxeb

arc cnobaSi iyo miTiTebuli

da arc mSobels ucnobebia.

sabavSvo baRebSi gamovlenili

Zaladobis SemTxvevebidan, romelTa

raodenoba Zalian mcirea

(5,1%), yvela fizikuri Zaladobis

formas miekuTvneba, romelTa gamovlena

martivad SeiZleba aRsazrdelis

fizikuri daTvalierebis

Sedegadac. sagulisxmoa isic,

rom sabavSvo baRis TanamSromel-

Ta mier CamoTvlil yvela SemTxvevaSi

aRsazrdelze ojaxis wevrma

iZalada, xolo sabavSvo baRis

TanamSromlis mxridan aRsazrdelze

Zaladobis eWvis mxolod

erTi SemTxveva gamovlinda, ris

safuZvelzec es TanamSromeli

samsaxuridan gaaTavisufles.

sabavSvo baRebis umravlesoba-

Si (64.1%) ar aris TanamSromelTaTvis

gankuTvnili saTavsebi da

erTeuli gamonaklisis garda,

maTTvis arc sasadilo sivrcea

gaTvaliswinebuli, ris gamoc sabavSvo

baRis TanamSromlebisTvis,

gansakuTrebiT ki aRmzrdelebisTvis,

problemaa samuSao

periodSi sakvebis miReba. aRmzrdelTa

TanaSemweebsa da ZiZebs

damlageblis funqciis Sesruleba

uxdebaT. isini alageben saaRmzrdelo

oTaxebsa da saZineblebs,

wmenden saTamaSoebs, recxaven

WurWels da xSirad TeTreulsac.

aqedan gamomdinare, rTulia

iTqvas, ramdenad warmatebiT Sesrulda

2018 wels zarzeimiT

daanonsebuli reforma, romelic

saqarTvelos skolamdeli dawesebulebebis

srul „afdeiTs” gulisxmobda.

rogorc Cans, amis dasruleba

(an Tavidan dawyeba) sxva

mTavrobas mouwevs.

indoneziis momavali jandacvis ministri staJirebas saqarTveloSi gadis

ras ityviT imaze, rom indoneziis COVID 19-Tan

Tamar rostiaSvili

brZolis erT-erTi avtori saqarTveloSi gadis sta-

577 10 07 06

Jirebas? 31 wlis indonezieli, argita salindri,

saqarTveloSi aRmoCnda aSS-is emoris universitetsa

da tuberkulozis erovnul centrs Soris arsebuli erToblivi samecniero kv-

levebis programis farglebSi. axalgazrda indonezielis kvlevis xelmZRvanelia

msoflioSi ucnobilesi mecnieri, meTiu magi, qarTvelebis mxridan ki mas patrona-

Js uwevdnen nestan tukvaZe da maia gegeWkori.

„qronika+~ argita salindrs esaubre-

ba:

_ argita, sasiamovnoa imis gaazreba,

rom indoneziis „kovidTan” brZolis naw-

ilSi saqarTveloSi staJirebaze myof

mecniers miuZRvis wvlili. Tqveni kvle-

vis Sesaxeb mogviyeviT, romelsac

saqarTveloSi awarmoebT.

_ Cemi kvleva ramdenime mimarTulebas

moicavs da mecnieruli wiaRsvlebiT rom

ar dagRaloT, ZiriTad sakiTxze gavCerdebi.

erT-erTi mTavari mizani aris SeviswavloT

pacientebi gamojanmrTelebidan 6

Tvis Semdeg.

_ rogorc vici, indoneziis prezi-

dentma piradad dagirekaT da gTxovaT,

rom COVID19-Tan sabrZolvelad misi

qveynisTvis programa SegedginaT.

_ es Zalian xmamaRali naTqvamia, vinaidan

me ar var srulad CarTuli proeqtSi,

mxolod garkveuli saxis serviss vawvdidi

indoneziis jandacvis saministros,

magaliTad, „kovidis” gavrcelebis Semcirebis

mizniT gatarebuli zomebis gavlena

tuberkulozis gavrcelebaze. anda rogor

zegavlenas axdens tuberkuloziT

daavadebul pacientebze es zomebi? gadian

Tu ara konsultacias eqimTan? ramden

pacients daudasturda tuberkulozi izolaciis

dros da a. S. aseve vawarmoeb kvlevas,

Tu ra RonisZiebebi tardeba izolaciis

Semdeg tuberkuloziT daavadebul

pacientebTan dakavSirebiT. vmuSaobT mokle

krebulze indoneziis jandacvis sa-

N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.

ministrosTvis. aseve vqmniT vebsaits indoneziaSi,

sadac iqneba yvela informacia,

Tu rogor SevZloT davubundeT normalur

cxovrebas „kovid infeqciis” Semdeg.

Cemi misia am proeqtSi aris, gadavamowmo

informacia da gaviaro konsultacia

rac SeiZleba bevr epidemiologTan,

raTa es informacia sworad mivawodoT indoneziis

mosaxleobas. es Zalze mniSvnelovania

da amaSi daufasebel daxmarebas

miwevs, profesori zaza avaliani.

_ da es yvelaferi saqarTvelodan

keTdeba?

_ cxadia, vinaidan aq vimyofebi.

_ sxvadasxva eTnosis warmomadgenlebs

gansxvavebuli imuniteti aqvT. rogor

fiqrobT, ra gavlenas axdens magaliTad

COVID 19 gansxvavebul eTnikur jgufe-

bze?

_ indoneziaSi umeteswilad gvyavs diabetiT

daavadebuli pacientebi, imitom

rom mosaxleoba didi raodenobiT moixmars

TeTr brinjs, tkbil Caisa da tkbil

sasmelebs. aq imunitetze saubari cota

rTulia... magaliTad, saqarTveloSi ufro

hepatitis daavadebebi Warbobs. verc erT

da verc meore SemTxvevaSi imuniteti ver

gamogvadgeba damcav meqanizmad, radgan

konkretuli gamomwvevebi arsebobdnen.

_ amboben, qarTuli da indoneziuri

samzareulo sirTulis mxriv waagavs

erTmaneTso.

_ saerTod araferi aqvT saerTo.

qarTuli da indoneziuri samzareulo ab-

`vawarmoeb kvlevas, Tu ra

RonisZiebebi tardeba izolaciis

Semdeg tuberkuloziT daavadebul

pacientebTan dakavSirebiT.

vmuSaobT mokle krebulze

indoneziis jandacvis

saministrosTvis. aseve vqmniT

vebsaits indoneziaSi, sadac iqneba

yvela informacia, Tu rogor

SevZloT davubundeT normalur

cxovrebas `kovid infeqciis~ Semdeg.

Cemi misia am proeqtSi aris,

gadavamowmo informacia da

gaviaro konsultacia rac SeiZleba

bevr epidemiologTan, raTa es

informacia sworad mivawodoT

indoneziis mosaxleobas. es Zalze

mniSvnelovania da amaSi

daufasebel daxmarebas miwevs,

profesori zaza avaliani~

soluturad gansxvavdeba erTmaneTisgan.

indoneziuri sakvebi ukve tailandur da

vietnamur samzareulos hgavs. saqme is

aris, rom indonezia didi qveyanaa da mas-

Si 800-ze meti eTnikuri dajgufeba cxovrobs.

gvaqvs 600 sxvadasxva dialeqti.

aqedan TiToeul regions Tavisi gansakuTrebuli

sakvebi aqvs: magaliTad, iq

sadac me vcxovrob, tkbil-cxare sakvebia.

TiTqmis yvela kerZi cxarea, magram aucileblad

dahkravs tkbili gemo. magaliTad,

Cems sayvarel kerZs, dakepil saqonlis

xorcs, aseve motkbo gemo aqvs.

_ cota rTulia maSin am kiTxvis das-

ma, _ romelia Tqveni sayvareli qarTuli

kerZi?

_ vgiJdebi nigvzian badrijanze. Cems

kurator maia yifians vTxove, rom eswavlebina.

xinkali Semiyvarda kidev mxolod

saqonlis an batknis xorciT, vinaidan muslimani

var. kidev iciT, ra momwons Zalian?

qarTuli pomidori...

_ qarTul pomidors gansakuTrebuli

gemo aqvs?

_ diax, qarTul pomidors ufro kargi

gemo aqvs, vidre sxva qveynebSi gamisinjavs.

aseve qarTuli kitric Zalian gemrielia.

minda giTxraT, rom saqarTveloSi yofnis

ganmavlobaSi orive didi raodenobiT

mivirTvi. lobiani ar unda gamomrCes.

_ vinaidan wesebs icavT, romelime

meCeTi Tu moinaxuleT saqarTveloSi

yofnis dros?

_ vcdilob, davicva. indoneziaSi 80%

muslimi cxovrobs, 10% qristiania da danarCeni

hinduistebi, budistebi da a. S.

yofniT ki mxolod erTxel viyavi Zvel

TbilisSi mdebare meCeTSi.

_ dabrunebis Semdeg sad apirebT,

gaagrZeloT moRvaweoba?

_ me emoris universitetis doqtoranti

var, romelic kvlevis mniSvnelovan

nawils tuberkulozis erovnul centrSi

asrulebs. axla amerikaSi vbrundebi,

emoris universitetSi. Cems Tavs ufro kvlevebSi

vxedav, amitom ar vici, Tu saiT

iqneba Cemi gza am etapze. es SeiZleba iyos

indonezia, aSS an SeiZleba, isev saqarTvelo.

_ indoneziaSi jandacvis ministrobac

rom SemogTavazon?

_ ar vici... amaze unda davfiqrde.

29

vijeqi manqanis ukana savarZelze,

da Cem garda ukana savarZelze

kidev ijda oTxi pirovneba, me

vijeqi Sua nawilSi, ise rom ori

adamiani mejda erTi mxridan da

oric meore mxridan. manqana, rogorc

mivxvdi, iqve motrialda, meoradi

gziT Cavida xidis qveS, amovida

sapirispiro mxares da wamovediT

Tbilisis mimarTulebiT,

manqanis daZvridan maleve, kerZod,

meorexarisxovani gzidan centralur

gzaze amosvlisas, xidis dasawyisSi

vuTxari, rom manqana gaeCerebinaT

da davrCebodi adgilze,

magram mZRolis gverdiT mjdomma

gagniZem mipasuxa, rom manqanas ar

gaaCerebdnen da wamomiyvanes TbilisSi.

kiTxva:

Tqven ganmartavT, rom manqaniT

wamosvlisas, gzaze mosmenili saubrebidan

gamomdinare, daaskveniT,

rom Tavdamsxmelebma ver ipoves

giorgi SaqaraSvili. ra STabe-

Wdileba dagrCaT am saubrebidan?

isini gulwrfelad ambobdnen amas,

Tu specialurad Tqven gasagonad

saubrobdnen, rom TavianTi sasurveli

versia moesmeninebinaT TqvenTvis?

pasuxi:

kiTxvaze gipasuxebT, rom rogorc

araerTxel aRvniSne, Cemi wina

Cvenebis micemis dros me gaanalizebuli

ar mqonda bevri garemoeba, as-

30


ratom daades grifiT saidumlo giorgi

SaqaraSvilis mkvlelobis saqmes?

mesame gverdidan

eve viyavi stresul mdgomareobaSi

da miWirda bevri momxdari faqtis

TanmimdevrobiT gaxseneba. rogorc

ukve giTxariT, me maT movTxove manqanis

gaCereba, radgan msurda, Cemi

megobris, giorgi SaqaraSvilis mo-

Zebna, ra drosac vuTxari, rom gzas

gavagrZelebdi CemiT. realuri mizezi

davumale, magram manqanis gaCerebaze

miviRe kategoriuli uari.

amis garda mZRolis gverdiT mjdomma

pirma, arCil gagniZem, ramdenjerme

mkiTxa, Tu saidan icoda giorgi

SaqaraSvilma aseTi swrafi

sirbili, romelsac vuTxari, rom

mec da giorgi SaqaraSvilic bavSvobidan

viyaviT fexburTelebi, razedac

aseve mkiTxa, rogor magradac

darbixarT, ise magrad Tu iciT

curvao? aRniSnuli SekiTxvisTvis

me yuradReba ar mimiqcevia, im momentSi

veraferTan ver davakavSire,

radgan viyavi aRelvebuli da vnerviulobdi

Cems megobar giorgi SaqaraSvilze,

Tu sad iyo igi. aseve mgzavrobisas,

rogorc maxsovs, ukan mjdomma

erTma pirma axsena Semdegi Sinaarsis

sityvebi, rom davadeT ukve,

damkaSi iqneba gasulio. am sityveb-

Si Tu vis gulisxmobda, ar vici.

kiTxva:

rodesac „mersedesiT” mosulma

pirebma scemes giorgi qaTamaZe da

wavidnen ukan, nikoloz Jvanias rkinis

mogrZo formis xelketis magvari

sagani kidev ekava Tua ra xelSi?

pasuxi:

kiTxvaze gipasuxebT, rom nikoloz

Jvanias rkinis mogrZo formis

xelketis magvari sagani kidev

ekava Tu ara, ver davinaxe.

kiTxva:

gTxovT, gaixsenoT, TbilisSi

dabrunebisas, pirveli visTan ganaxorcieleT

satelefono zari?

pasuxi:

dasmul kiTxvaze gipasuxebT,

rom TbilisSi Camosvlis Semdgom

me didubis metros mimdebare teritoriaze

jer CemTvis ucnob

pirovnebas vkiTxe, dasareki xom ar

hqonda, razedac man mipasuxa, rom

ar hqonda salaparako, ris Semdgomac

ganvagrZe gza da maleve gavaCere

taqsi, ris Semdgomac aRniSnul

taqsis mZRols vTxove telefoni

dasarekad. pirvelad davreke Cems

telefonis nomerze. vin mipasuxa,

ar vici, radgan xma ar amouRia da

mas vuTxari, rom viyavi gurami, ra

drosac telefoni gaiTiSa, xolo

Semdegi darekvisas ukve mipasuxa

irakli waqaZem, romelsac vuTxari

momxdari faqtis Sesaxeb, rom me

Camomiyvanes TbilisSi da vuTxari,

rom wasuliyo da moeZebna giorgi

SaqaraSvili da sxva gaqceuli bi-

Webi. amis Semdeg, amave taqsiT,

romelsac vTxove telefoni, wavedi

saxlSi. saxlSi misvlisas damxvdnen

ojaxis wevrebi, deda ekaterine

dalaqiSvili, da lia amirxanaSvili

da babua guram amirxanaSvili,

romlebmac mkiTxes, Tu ra

SememTxva, radgan xelebze da fexebze

mqonda dazianebebi da maT

movuyvevi, rac SememTxva.

kiTxva:

saxlSi misvlis Semdgom aRrniSnulis

Sesaxeb uambeT Tu ara

vinmes socialuri an sxva qselis

saSualebiT?

pasuxi:

kiTxvaze gipasuxebT, rom aRniSnulis

Sesaxeb, rogorc maxsovs,

feisbuqze mivwere dabadebis dReze

myof lizi nadiraZes, mariam

xatiskacs da Cems megobar oleg

boboxiZes.

kiTxva:

gTxovT, mogvaxsenoT, ratom ar

SeatyobineT giorgi SaqaraSvilis

ojaxs misi gauCinarebis Sesaxeb?

pasuxi:

kiTxvaze mogaxsenebT, rom mcxeTidan

wamosvlis Semdgom me mTeli

Rame velodebodi da mjerda,

rom giorgi SaqaraSvili Semexmianeboda

da ver warmovidgendi, rom mas

rame mosvloda, ris gamoc ar mindoda

ojaxis aforiaqeba. amasTan,

bolomde mjeroda, rom mas araferi

uWirda, winaaRmdeg SemTxvevaSi, me

aucileblad Sevatyobinebdi maT

aRniSnulis Sesaxeb. me giorgi

SaqaraSvilis gamoCenas velodebodi

gaTenebamde da rodesac igi ar

gamoCnda, maSinve Sevatyobine ojaxs.

kiTxva:

eTanxmebiT Tu ara dadgenilebas

Tqveni dazaralebulad cnobis

Sesaxeb?

pasuxi:

me gacnobili var dadgenilebas

Cemi dazaralebulad cnobis

Taobaze da veTanxmebi srulad.

SeniSvna: gamokiTxvis mimdinareobisas

19:00 saaTze gamocxadda

Sesveneba, romelic guram amirxanaSvilis

TanxmobiT ganaxlda 22:00

saaTze. guram amirxanaSvilma Tanxmoba

ganacxada, rom misi gamokiTxva

gagrZelebuliyo 22:00 saaTis

Semdgomac.

`sisxliani 9 weli cremliani 8 wliT Caanacvles~

xviCa mamulaZe

ra gegmebi aqvs genri doliZes sakanonmdeblo

organoSi? ras hpirdeba igi ba-

Tumelebs? rogor afasebs xelisuflebis

muSaobas pandemiasTan brZolaSi? am da sxva

saintereso detalebiT „qronika+~ partia

„aleko elisaSvili _ moqalaqeebis” baTu-

mis maJoritarobis kandidats saqarTvelos

parlamentSi, genri doliZes esaubra:

_ gamarjoba, batono genri, ratom gada-

wyviteT politikaSi wasvla?

_ politikidan Sors arc arasdros vmdgarvar.

yovelTvis vmonawileobdi sazogadoebrivi

cxovrebis yvela aqtualur procesSi.

moswavle viyavi, roca aslan abaSiZis

reJimis winaaRmdeg videqi, rogorc rigiTi

aqtivisti, Semdeg xSirad vmarTavdi studentur

aqciebs saakaSvilis xelisuflebis

Zaladobrivi qmedebebis gasaprotesteblad

da, samwuxarod, arc am xelisuflebam mogvca

simSvide samoqalaqo sazogadoebas. 16-

wliani aqtiuri gamocdilebis Semdeg mivxvdi,

rom aris rigi problemebi, romelsac

garedan ver moagvareb. maT gadasaWrelad

gWirdeba berketebi, legitimacia, sazogadoebis

mandati. xSirad mekiTxebian, poet

kacs politikaSi ra ginda, politika binZuri

saqmeao. diax, binZuri saqmea, magram saqveyno

saqmea da viRacam unda daikapiwos xelebi,

rom am sibinZurisgan gawmindos es

qveyana.

_ Tqveni azriT, ra ZiriTadi problemebi

aris regionSi, romelic Zalian awux-

ebs Cvens moqalaqeebs?

_ regionSi bevri problemaa. XXI saukune-

Si arsebobs soflebi, romlebsac wyali ar

miewodeba, ar aris gzebi. ganaTlebis saministrom

martivad gamoacxada, onlain swavlebis

reJimze gadavideTo, magram vinmem

ikiTxa, ramdeni moswavlea baTumSi, visac

kompiuteri da smartfoni ar gaaCnia? ramdeni

sofelia aWaraSi, romelsac interneti

ar miewodeba? es yvelaferi ki iqidan momdinareobs,

rom formaluri avtonomia da

genri doliZe:

`dRes bavSvic

gipasuxebs,

rom adamianis

uflebebi

saqarTveloSi

daucvelia~

TviTmmarTveloba gvaqvs. realurad ki Cvens

TiToeul sakiTxs TbilisSi, kabinetebSi,

Tbil savarZlebSi mokalaTebuli Cinovnikebi

wyveten, xSirad ise, rom xuloSi, qedaSi,

SuaxevSi namyofebic ar arian, baTumsa da

qobuleTSi ki zRvispira zolis miRma xalxi

Tu cxovrobs, ver warmoudgeniaT.

_ ras hpirdebiT amomrCevels?

_ xSirad gvesmis utopiuri dapirebebi

sxvadasxva partiis mxridan: pensia amdeni

dolari, gazi ufaso, deni 5 TeTri da a. S.

es yvelaferi an gaazrebuli tyuilia, an

gulubryvilo paTeTika. Cven vpirdebiT

amomrCevels, rom viqnebiT mebrZoli gundi,

romelic arc erT usamarTlobaze

Tvals ar daxuWavs. ar davuSvebT mavnebluri

kanonebis miRebas, vibrZolebT mcire

mTavrobis koncefciis realizaciaze, Cinovnikebisa

da administraciuli xarjebis Semcirebaze,

tenderebis mavnebluri sistemis

Secvlaze samarTliani modeliT... vibrZolebT,

rom TiToeuli reforma, rac Cvens

qveyanaSi gatardeba, iyos samarTliani da

qarTul realobas morgebuli!

_ rogoria Tqveni samomavlo gegmebi?

_ partia „aleko elisaSvili _ moqalaqeebis”

gegma or fexze dgas: es aris

ganaTleba da soflis meurneoba. Cven vibrZolebT

imisTvis, rom saqarTveloSi

bavSvebs 12-wliani skolaSi siarulis Semdeg

repetitorebTan soliduri Tanxis

gadaxda ar sWirdebodeT universitetSi Casabareblad.

vimuSavebT imaze, rom saxnavsaTesi

miwebi ekonomikis saministros ki ar

ekuTvnodes, samarTlianad gaunawildes

xalxs, rom soflis meurneoba miTiuri aietis

droindeli kolxuri ToxebiT miwis

damuSavebasTan ar asocirdebodes. es iyos

Tanamedrove teqnologiebiT aRWurvili

modernizebuli dargi. es iyos biznesi da

ara sakuTari ojaxis gamosakvebad gaweuli

erTwliani Tavdadebuli Sroma. amisTvis

agrobiznesi, sasawyobe, samacivre, gadamzidi

kompaniebi unda gavaTavisufloT gadasaxadebisgan,

unda gavaZlieroT ganaTlebis

sistema am mimarTulebiT. prioritetul

dargad gamovacxadoT agroturizmi.

_ rogor fiqrobT, ra Sansebi gaqvT

regionSi?

_ rac winaswar SemiZlia vTqva, es aris

is, rom aleko elisaSvilisa da misi axali,

gausvreli gundis mimarT arsebobs Zalian

didi dadebiTi ganwyoba, rogorc urbanul

centrebSi, aseve soflebSic. Cveni amocanaa,

es keTilganwyoba gamoixatos saarCevno biuletenebze.

ramdenad kargad SevasrulebT

am amocanas, 31 oqtombers gamoCndeba.

_ Tu amomrCevlis ndoba moipoveT, ras

gaakeTebT pirvelad?

_ vibrZoleb, rom deputatebi ar warmoadgendnen

privilegirebulTa kastas.

Tavad viqnebi yvelaze gaxsnili, saxalxo da

xelmisawvdomi parlamentari.

_ SegiZliaT gviTxraT, Tu ras fiqrobT

piradad Tqven pandemiaze? rogor Seaf-

asebT xelisuflebis muSaobas?

_ jandacvis sferos warmomadgenlebma,

epidemiologebma, marTla Tavganwirulad

imuSaves, rasac ver vityodi xelisuflebaze,

romelmac mTlianad miitaca da partiul

warmatebad gamoacxada medikosebis

damsaxureba. garda aucilebeli da saWiro

RonisZiebebisa, daaweses yovlad auxsneli

da ulogiko SezRudvebi, romelic dResac

azianebs Cvens ekonomikas. dRemde grZeldeba

yvelaferze ormagi standarti. maSin

roca akrZalulia RonisZiebebi, qorwilebi

daketilia kino, Teatri, suls Rafavs turizmi,

aTasobiT adamians vxedavT dendrologiuri

parkis rigSi.

_ Tqveni azriT, saqarTveloSi mo-

qalaqeebis uflebebi daculia?

_ dRes bavSvic rom gaaCero quCaSi, gipasuxebs,

rom adamianis uflebebi

saqarTveloSi daucvelia. erTi gaxmaurebuli

saqme mainc daasaxelon, romlis gamo-

ZiebasTan kiTxvis niSnebi ar hqondes sazogadoebas

da sadac xelisuflebasTan

daaxloebuli pirebis interesebi an sistemuri

Zaladoba ar ikveTeba? SaqaraSvili,

siraZe, baCaliaSvili _ es saqmeebi eyofoda

normalur qveyanaSi mTeli mTavrobis gadadgomas

mizezad. sisxliani 9 weli cremliani

8 wliT Caanacvles. televizoris

CarTva aRar minda, imdeni bundovani da

gamouZiebeli mkvleloba dagrovda. vimedovneb,

rom am arCevnebze xalxi mxars dau-

Wers cvlilebebs da proporciulad dakompleqtebuli,

dabalansebuli xelisufleba

iqneba samarTlianobis damkvidrebis garanti.

30 N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.

rezo SatakiSvili

597 94 42 50

karga xania, TiTqmis yvelaferi

gaixsna: transporti, restornebi, barebi, savaWro centrebi da

gamoketili darCa Teatrebi. iyo daTqma, rom Teatrebi pirve-

li oqtombridan gaixsneboda, magram 9 seqtembers gadawyda, rom

pirveli oqtombris nacvlad gaixsneba pirvel noembers. arada,

Teatrs Tavisuflad SeeZlo rig da skamgamotovebiT bileTe-

bis gayidva, mayurebelTa nakadis marTva, TviTon speqtaklis

formis, xangrZlivobis, formatis regulaciebze morgeba...

figuralurad rom vTqvaT, xelisuflebam

qarTul Teatrs

kuku hkra da pensiaze gauSva.

ratom vaxseneb pensias? imitom,

rom martidan moyolebuli, mTeli

am xnis manZilze, uklebliv

saxelmwifo Teatrebis yvela

Statiani TanamSromeli xelfass

iRebs udanakargod. arafris

keTebaSi aRebuli xelfasi ki sxva

raRaa, Tu ara pensia _ gacemuli

niSnad odesRac gaweuli Sromis

dafasebisa. ise, CvenSi rom darCes,

aqamdec, am pandemiamdec, yvela

saxelmwifo TeatrSi iyo

xalxi (msaxiobebis minimum mesamedi

mainc), romelic swored ase,

arafris keTebaSi iRebda xelfass.

bevri araTu ar TamaSobda

gaekeTebina, Tundac kidev ufro

gaemkacrebina regulaciebi da

pirveli oqtombridan gaxsniliyo

Teatrebi, sadac namdvilad

SesaZlebelia distanciis, sanitariuli

normebisa da, saerTod,

regulaciebis dacva. amdenad,

gaumarTleblad mimaCnia vadis

gadaweva.

daviT CxartiSvili:

_ sruliad SesaZlebeli iyo.

rogorc Teatris samxatvro xelmZRvaneli,

amas vambob mTeli

pasuxismgeblobiT. am regulaciebis

dacvis problema Teatrs ar

hqonda, arc dezobarieris, arc

Termoskriningis, arc nakadis

kontrolis, arc formatisa da


daviT buxrikiZe

xelisuflebis saCvenebel, fasadur

RonisZiebas, rom ai, raRacas

vakeTebT, pandemias vebrZviT.

_ qarTul Teatrs TiTqmis

mTelwliani pauza gamouvida.

kidev ar viciT, ramden xans ga-

stans es. Tqveni azriT, ra Sed-

egs moitans amgvari gaCereba da

moaxerxebs Tu ara qarTuli Te-

atri im repertuaris aRdgenas,

romelic pandemiamde hqonda?

_ amxela pauza repertuaris

daaxloebiT 70%-s moklavs, minimum

gaanaxevrebs. yvela speqtaklis

erTad aRdgena warmoudgenelia,

imdenad rTuli da Sromatevadi

procesia. garda amisa, Tavs

iCens sxva problemac _ mayureblis

mobilizeba, romelic miCveuli

gvyavda, magram amxela pauzis

pirobebSi igi gadaeCvia TeatrSi

siaruls... aRarafers vambob

imaze, rom msaxiobebi dundebian,

formidan vardebian. es iqneba

mTeli qarTuli Teatris problema.

rodesac Cven pirvel noembers

gadadeba gavaprotesteT,

zogierTma kritikosma wamogvaZaxa,

_ Tqvenc axla Sedevrebs ar

dgamdeTo. maT gasagonad minda,

vTqva: jer erTi, Tqveni profesia

Cvens profesiazea akidebuli

da Tu Sedevrebs ver vdgamT da

mkvdrebi varT, maSin Tqven xarT

marTlac mkvdarze „venoki”, rogorc

mogaxsenes moswrebulad.

Cveni sferos warmomadgeneli,

romelic mxars uWers am xelisuflebas,

Cven ki ar unda gvitev-

idarobac unda gamoiCinon msaxiobebma

da reJisorebma erTmane-

Tis mimarT, Seadginon saprotesto

werili, moawyon Tundac aqciebi,

xma miawvdinon, aiZulon xelisufleba.

Teatraluri samyaros

gaxleCiloba, danawevreba am

SemTxvevaSi Zalian TvalsaCinoa

da samwuxaroa, rom Teatraluri

samyaros kolegebi ar gamoirCevian

solidarobiT usaxsrod

darCenili kolegebis mimarT...

daviT CxartiSvili:

_ visac saxelmwifo Teatreb-

Si Stati aqvs, uwyvetad iRebs

xelfass, magram amdenTvianma gaCerebam

ulukmapurod datova yvela

is reJisori, mxatvari, qoreografi

Tu kompozitori, romelic

Teatrebis StatSi araa, rogorc

Tavisufali Semoqmedi, muSaobs

miwveviT da cxovrobs, Tavi

gaaqvs im honorariT, romelsac

iRebs. axalgazrda reJisorebidan

mxolod ramdenimes gvaqvs

Stati da, Sesabamisad, mudmivi

xelfasi, yvela sxva axalgazrda

qarTuli Teatri pensiaze gauSves

speqtaklebSi, arc midioda TeatrSi

da ise ericxeboda igi.

axla ki mTeli qarTuli Teatri

swored aseT pensiaze gauSva

mTavrobam.

samagierod, ulukmapurod

dagvtova yvela sxva _ reJisori,

msaxiobi, scenografi, kompozitori

Tu qoreografi, romlebic,

ase vTqvaT, StatSi ar varT da

miwveviT vmuSaobT _ honorarze...

Teatrebis gaxsna kvlav gadaido,

protesti aqa-iq kantikuntad

gaisma. arsebuli dumili

aCens eWvs, rom mTel qarTul

Teatrs Tu ara, Zalian bevr msaxiobsa

da reJisors, visac Stati

da garantirebuli xelfasi aqvs,

gautkba kidec „pensiaze” yofna.

bevrs albaT arc xiblavs umoqmedod

yofna, magram, iSviaTi gamonaklisebis

garda, sajaro protesti

ar ismis, arada, amxela pauza

da wyveta Tu mTlad ar mospobs,

gaanaxevrebs pandemiamde

arsebul repertuars, damRupvelad

imoqmedebs, formidan amoagdebs

msaxiobebs, reJisorebs da

rogorc kritikosma laSa CxartiSvilma

dawera: „meSinia, am iZulebiTma

pauzam saerTod ar gagvyinos

ise, rom veRar gavlRveT” ...

saxelmwifo Teatrebis mesveurebidan

Teatrebis gaxsnis vadis

gadaweva gaaprotesta goris

erisTavis Teatris xelmZRvanelma

daviT CxartiSvilma.

dRes „qronika+~ qarTuli

Teatris winaSe arsebul gamowvevaze

swored mas da kritiko-

ss daviT buxrikiZes esaubreba:

_ rogor fiqrobT, iyo Tu ara

SesaZlebeli, arsebul mdgomareobaSi

qarTul Teatrs daewyo

funqcionireba regulaciebis

dacviT?

daviT buxrikiZe:

_ rasakvirvelia, SesaZlebeli

iyo da mTavrobas ar unda gaedaedo,

piriqiT, yvelaferi unda

arc distanciis dacvis, arc niRbebis

TvalsazrisiT. magaliTad,

mkeravs garkveuli raodenobis

niRbebi SevakerineT da Tu mayurebels

ar eqneboda, Cven uzrunvelvyofdiT.

amisTvis mzad

viyaviT da darwmunebuli var,

sxva Teatrebic moemzadebodnen

da sruliad SesaZlebeli gaxldaT,

rom 500-600-kacian darbazebSi

100-200 mayurebeli damsxrdariyo.

mSvenivrad vacnobierebT

safrTxes, magram xelisuflebis

nabiji rogor gavigoT? guSin me

speqtaklebi amikrZale, erTi

TviT gadamide sezoni da guSinve

Seni rekomendaciiT uzarmazari

koncerti Catarda. rogor aRviqva

es faqti? ra kuTxiT Sevxedo?

rogor miviRo?

_ xom ar fiqrobT, rom xelisufleba

Teatrebis gamoketvas

saCveneblad iyenebs? fasa-

durad ebrZvis pandemias, Torem

gaugebaria, ratom iketeba Teat-

ri, rodesac muSaoben restornebi,

muSaobs rkinigza, taqse-

bi, avtobusebi, samarSrutoebi,

sadac zedaxoraa? gadatenilia

savaWro obieqtebi da a. S. ar

aCerebs amas, da „raRac xom unda

akrZaloSi” yovelTvis Teatri

yveba.

daviT CxartiSvili:

_ es SegrZnebac gamiCnda. samarSruto

taqsebSi, avtobusebSi

erTmaneTs azis xalxi, transporti

gadatenili dadis da davijero,

Teatrebs maTze ukeTesad

mainc ar SegviZlia distanciis

dacva?

daviT buxrikiZe:

_ restornebSic, savaWroi

centrebSic, transportSic xalxis

kontaqti ufro axloa, ufro

simWidrovea, vidre TeatrSi iqneboda

da aseT dros, rodesac ar

ikrZaleba araferi da ikrZaleba

Teatris muSaoba, TavisTavad cxadia,

es akrZalva warmoadgens

daviT buxrikiZe:

_ repertuaris srulad aRdgena

gamoricxulia. Cemi azriT,

ganaxevrdeba da am naxevris SenarCunebac

gmirobis tolfasi

iqneba, imdenad damRleli da

Sromatevadi procesia speqtaklis

aRdgena amdenTviani pauzis

Semdeg. ra Tqma unda, qarTul Teatrs

Zalian Zvirad daujdeba es

pauza, ara marto imitom, rom

mTeli repertuari Cavarda, sezoni

gaCerda da msaxiobebi formidan

amovardnen (speqtaklebis

xarisxi, ra Tqma unda daecema),

aramed imitomac, rom amxela

SemoqmedebiTi pauza warmoadgens

stress, fsiqologiur travmas

da amas moyveba SemoqmedebiTi

depresia, saidan gamosavalic mxolod

da mxolod Teatris rac

SeiZleba male amoqmedebaa, pirveli

oqtombridan Tu ara, pirveli

noembridan mainc. postpandemiur

periodSi Zalian bevri axali

problema iCens Tavs. vfiqrob,

garkveuli gadawyoba, axali gzebisa

da formebis mofiqrebaa

saWiro am sirTuleebis dasaZlevad.

daviT CxartiSvili:

daviT CxartiSvili

des, piriqiT, valdebulia, xma

amoiRos Teatris problemebze

da auxsnas am xelisuflebas, rac

asaxsnelia. Tu vinme Cumad imitom

zis, rom Tavi gadairCinos

partiulad da mxolod fuli miiRos,

Zalian cudia da egeT adamianebze

vdgamT xolme Cven, re-

Jisorebi, speqtaklebs. msgavsi

adamianebi azianeben Teatrs. rodesac

am sferos warmoadgen da

swored amitom xar saWiro ai, im

partiisTvis, romelsac mxars

uWer, kargad unda gaacnobiero,

rom im partiis garda, Seni sferos

mxardamWeric unda iyo.

_ didad arc aravin apro-

testebs arsebul situacias.

rogor fiqrobT, riT aris gam-

owveuli es siCume? eridebian

mTavrobis ganawyenebas? awyobT

arafris keTebaSi xelfasis aRe-

ba? rogor SeafasebT im faqts,

rom xalxi, vinc miwveviT muSao-

bda TeatrebSi da Sesrulebul

samuSaoSi iRebda honorars (mi-

wveuli reJisorebi, mxatvrebi,

kompozitorebi, qoreografebi),

arsebul situaciaSi Semosav-

lebis gareSe darCa. maT arc

mTavrobis romelime daxmareba

SeexoT. amaze dums xelisufle-

ba da dums TviTon Teatraluri

samyaroc: Teatrebi, kolegebi,

Teatraluri sazogadoeba...

daviT buxrikiZe:

_ saxelmwifo Teatrebis msaxiobTa

nawils SeiZleba awyobs

kidec ase usaqmod yofna, yovel

SemTxvevaSi, maTgan protesti ar

ismis, eridebian da maTi siCume

TanxmobaSia xelisuflebis politikasTan,

es aris mTavari problema.

rac Seexeba im reJisorebs,

mxatvrebsa Tu kompozitorebs,

romlebic honorarze muSaoben,

darCnen samuSaos, Semosavlebis

gareSe da marTlac warmoudgenlad

rTuli situaciaa. isev da

isev Tavad unda iaqtiuron, Seawuxon

kolegebi, garkveuli sol-

reJisori miwvevebiT muSaobs.

kargad viciT, rom honorari ma-

Rali araa da adamianma rom rogorme

Tavi gaitanos da ojaxi

arCinos, weliwadSi, minimum, 3

speqtakli mainc unda dadgas. ase

dgamdiT Tundac Tqven CvenTan,

goris TeatrSi, WiaTuraSi, zestafonSi,

TelavSi, quTaisSi,

zugdidSi. am gaCerebam yvelaze

didi problema gaaCina _ es

Tavisufali xalxi, vinc am profesiiT

cxovrobs, magram ar aris

StatSi, gaTiSa da mokla. mokla

imitom, rom maT dakarges samuSaoc,

Semosavalic da arc mTavrobis

daxmareba Seexo. Cveni valia,

visac rame gveTqmis, xma amoviRoT.

imitom ki ara, rom rezo

gadavarCinoT SatakiSvili, elene

macxonaSvili an sandro eloSvili

an sxva, aramed imitom, rom

Cvens profesias mivxedoT da saxelmwifos

vaiZuloT, rom pativi

sces Cvens saqmes. vaiZuloT, rom

Cveni profesiis mimarT swori

damokidebuleba hqondeT. rac

Seexeba Teatralur sazogadoebas...

Cemi didi pativiscemis miuxedavad,

igi dRes ar dgas mowodebis

simaRleze, yvela saku-

Tar Tavze fiqrobs da imis iqiT

ar iyureba... arada, Cveni funqciaa,

cota sxvazec vifiqroT da

visac gvexeba da sityva gveTqmis,

samxatvro xelmZRvanelebs, Teatralur

sazogadoebas Tu kulturis,

sportis, ZeglTa dacvisa

da bevri ramis saministros, yvelam

unda miawvdinos xma im premier-ministrs.

sul 2-3-jer axsena

premier-ministrma am periodis

ganmavlobaSi Teatri da yovel-

Tvis viRacasTan erTad! arc

erTxel calke! erTxel Tqva, _

kinologebi mTxoven ZaRlebis

gaseirnebas da Teatris warmomadgenlebi

speqtaklebis Ria sivrceSi

TamaSso; meorejer, _ Teatrebi

da kinoTeatrebio da mesamed,

saerTod, _ Teatri mTlad

sporti araa, iq dramaao...

N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.

31


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ijiriTa da doRSi meore adgilze

gavida... arada, advili ar aris, meore

adgilis mopoveba pirvelive

doRSi... ar daTrgunula. ara,

Zalian realisturad uyurebda

movlenas da Tqva, rom pirveli

adgili TuSis cxenisa iyo, Cemma

raSma meoreze rom gamiyvana, egec

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veteqimoba undoda, radgan

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saxlSi axlac sami lekvi elodeba,

meZebari ZaRlebi... saxelebis

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magivrad lekvebs papa uvlis...

papa elaparakeba patarebs da

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5 seqtembers dabadebis dRe ve-

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gogosTvis xmamaRla Tqma, rom uyvarda...

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me-17 Semodgomas uari uTxra Sexvedraze...

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ivlisSi dediserTa biWma sofel

arTanaSi xis koWTan daasrula

sunTqva.

ratom?! esaa dRes Cveni mTavari

kiTxva da vecdebiT, bolomde

movfinoT sinaTle, ra moxda

manamde.

bela beJaniSvili, gardacv-

lili zukas mamida, „qronika+~-s

uyveba:

_ zuka iyo laRi, Tavisufali,

mSromeli, alalmarTali, gulwrfeli

da keTili biWi. SeuZlebelia,

vinme arsebobdes dedamiwis

zurgze, vinc ityvis, rom zukam

mas rame dauSava. zukas bavSvobidan

zrdis mamaCemi, anu papa, gansakuTrebuli

siyvaruliTa da zrunviT,

zuka mamaCemis mosaxelea.

rac SegveZlo, ojaxs ar vaklebdiT

arafers, magram Tavadac

mSromeli bavSvi iyo. sul exmareboda

dedas, papas. hyavda megobrebi.

Tanasoflelebs Zalian, Zalian

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is ukanono miTvisebaSi adanaSaulebs. misi TqmiT,

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acxadebs, eqspertizis daskvniT dasturdeba, rom xelmowera araavTentikuria.

ra etapzea saqmis gamoZieba? ratom ar

cno prokuraturam dRemde dazaralebu-

lad qeTevan uCaiZe da ras gegmavs is?

„qronika+~ qeTevan uCaiZes esaubra:

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„saqarTvelos bankSi” notariusis TandaswrebiT.

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iqneba, xelSekruleba gadmogecemaTo. 2

kviris Semdeg cincaZem xelSekruleba

gadmomca, Tumca mas ar ewera Sesyidvagamosyidva,

rac maSinve gamikvirda da

vkiTxe, razedac mipasuxa, rom bankSi cvlilebebi

moxda, Tumca molaparakeba

ZalaSi darCao. man maCvena Sida komitetis

gadawyvetilebis werili, sadac ewera,

rom 3 Tve mqonda dro. cincaZem miTxra,

rom es dro pirobiTad ewera da Cems gankargulebaSi

1 weli iyo. am faqtebis gamo

bevri kiTxvis niSani gamiCnda, Tumca mainc

vende, radgan Cven SeTanxmeba gvqonda da

ver warmomedgina, Tu ase moiqceodnen.

32

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Semqonda sarCeli da vcdilobdi,

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daiwyo. 2011 wlis 11 ivniss miRebaze viyavi

Cawerili imJamindel Sinagan saqmeTa ministr

vano merabiSvilTan. sanam saSvTa

biuroSi Sevidodi, Tqves, rom kotesTan

aris miRebazeo, rac gamikvirda da vkiTxe,

_ xom ar matyuebT, me vano merabiSvilTan

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tyuilze ificebT col-Svils-meTqi?!”

rogorc ki Senobidan gamovedi,

patrulma manqana gaaCera da saxlSi wayvana

SemomTavaza, razedac uari vuTxari.

maT TavSi Camartyes da ZaliT Camsves manqanaSi.

maSin girgvlianis mkvleloba axali

momxdari iyo da vifiqre, rom Cemi

mokvla surdaT. tirili daviwye, erTerTma

miTxra, davmSvidebuliyavi, sufTa

haerze mivyavdiT. kojorSi amiyvanes, 4

saaTi da 40 wuTi mamyofes iq manqanaSi,

aranairi fizikuri da fsiqologiuri(?!!)

Zaladoba ar yofila. Semdeg ki TbilisSi

Camomiyvanes da qaSueTis eklesiasTan damtoves.

simarTle giTxraT, ar vici, maTi

es saqcieli ras emsaxureboda. rogorc

Cans, SemaSines, es iyo maTi mizani. am

faqtidan ramdenime TveSi, rogorc iqna,

aRiZra sisxlis samarTlis saqme „saqarTvelos

bankTan” dakavSirebiT. Cemi saCivari

exeboda imas, rom „saqarTvelos bankma”

gayalbebuli xelweriT miiTvisa Cemi

qoneba.

_ Tqven riT amtkicebT, rom „sa-

qarTvelos bankma” xelmowera gaayalba?

_ 2012 wels Sinagan saqmeTa saministros

eqspertizis biurom daaskvna, rom

Cemi xelmowera gayalbebulia.

_ rogor mimdinareobs gamoZieba da

ra etapzea igi axla?

_ 2016 wels prokurorma muxiaSvilma

miTxra: SeuiaraRebeli TvaliTac Cans,

rom xelmowera gayalbebulia, miT umetes,

Tqven eqspertizis daskvna gaqvT da dazaralebulis

statusi mogeniWebaTo. amis

Semdeg is mTavar prokuraturaSi gadavida

samuSaod da es saqme nugzar WitaZes

daewera, romelmac miTxra, rom Tqveni

sabuTebi qvas gaxeTqavso, magram dRemde

ar maqvs dazaralebulis statusi. rac

Seexeba Cems saxls, rogorc gavarkvie,

„saqarTvelos banks” Cemi saxli 11 ojaxze

gadauyidia. komerciuli farTi ki 530

aTas dolarad gayides, anu Cemi vali amoiRes.

viTxov, samarTlianoba aRdges da

Cemi saxli damibrunon.

_ ras gegmavT?

_ ise damRala usamarTlobam, rom aRar

vici, ra gavakeTo. biZina ivaniSvilis, premier-ministr

gaxarias, mTavari prokurorisa

da parlamentis Tavmjdomaris saxelze

davwere gancxadeba, rom arCevnebis

dRes Tavs daviwvav. ukve yelSi amomivida

amdeni usamarTloba. wlebia, viTxov Cemi

qonebis dabrunebas, romelic „saqarTvelos

bankma” motyuebiT miiTvisa da usaxlkarod

damtova. Tqveni gazeTis saSualebiT

mivmarTav mTavar prokuror irakli

SoTaZes: gTxovT, damexmareT, rom

CemTvis izeimos samarTalma, me ar minda

sikvdili, sicocxle minda.

32 N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.


Tavi zuka beJaniSvilma?

uyvardaT igi. erTi SexedviT, aranairi

problema ar arsebobda 2020

wlis pirvel ivlisamde, rac zukas

aiZulebda, rom Tavi CamoexrCo.

_ da mainc, ras fiqrobs ojaxi,

ra moxda?

_ ojaxi fiqrobs, rom zuka

bulingis msxverpli gaxda erTerTi

Tanasofeli biWis mier. da

swored misma fsiqikam ver gauZlo

am damcirebas da gadawyvita

is, ramac sabolood gaaubedura

ojaxic, dedac da Tavad zukac

daRupa. rogorc gavige, erTi

gogo Seuyvarda. aRmoCnda, rom is

gogo amave soflis erT yoCs moswonda.

es is yoCia, romelic qurdobaze

ocnebobs da zurgs xelisuflebis

warmomadgeneli

dedamisi umagrebs.

_ konkretulad rom movyveT,

ra dapirispireba moxda?

_ im biWma ubedur SemTxvevamde

zukas soflis centrSi sxva

TanatolebTan erTad aiZula, rom

mobiluri telefoni misTvis

mieca. vfiqrob, zukasa da im gogos

mimowera sajarod waikiTxa

sxvebis TandaswrebiT da es gaxda

mizezi Cemi ZmisSvilis damcirebisa

da gaRizianebis. amis mere meore

Cxubi mdinaris piras xdeba.

maleve mesamed Cxuboben soflis

centrSi, dangreuli kulturis

saxlis SenobaSi, sadac ukve orive

fizikurad upirispirdeba erTmaneTs.

gaSvelebis Semdeg zuka saxlSi

aRar rCeba da Tavis megobars

mihyavs. satelefono mimoweridan

Cans, rom zuka Zalian cud xasiaTzea

da ver awynareben. aseve

igive Canaweridan isic irkveva,

rom zukas erTi xeli dazianebuli

aqvs, radgan gamwarebuli

kedels urtyams muSts.

_ am ambidan ramden xanSi xde-

ba ubeduri SemTxveva?

_ gaTenebisas saxlSi brundeba.

ar imCnevs bebiasTan da papasTan

arafers, magram mainc

gaRizianebulia. saRamos saxlidan

gadis da gvian Semodis, talaver-

Si Suqs aqrobs. bebias, papasa da

dedas hgoniaT, rom is iZinebs,

Tumca diliT mamaCems saSineli

suraTi xvdeba saToneSi _ lukas

Tavi aqvs CamomxrCvali. dalurjebebi

aqvs yelTan, naTiTrebi, _ albaT

mixvda, rom es ar unda

gaekeTebina, magram Tokisgan gan-

Tavisufleba ver moaxerxa... anu

Cxubidan 24 saaTSi luka Tavs

iklavs.

_ saRamos, sanamde saxlSi mov-

idoda, sad iyo?

_ es mniSvnelovani momentia,

romelic ar viciT. eqspertizis

daskvniT lukas organizmSi mcire

raodenobis alkoholi amovida.

lukas ar uyvarda alkoholis

miReba. amitom radgan mcire doziT,

magram mainc amovida alkoholi,

vfiqrob, rom is saRamos saxlidan

imitom gavida, rom „dapatiJebuli”

iyo sadRac, sadac

mcire alkoholi miiRo da, savaraudod,

iq moxda kidev raRac an

saxlSi sadme, radgan amboben,

soflis centrSi aravis unaxavs

gasulio. vfiqrob, sadme miityues

da es biWebi, romlebTanac wina

dRes Cxubi mouvida, mividnen da

iq raRac moxda. amis Zalian didad

mjera.

_ xom faqtia, rom maT Cxubi

daasrules?

_ ara, ar aris ase. ar iciT, vinaa

is TavzexelaRebuli biWi da

misi megobari. arc is iciT, vin

dgas maT ukan. arc is iciT, ra gavlenebi

aqvs dedamiss.

_ ra gavlenebi aqvs dedamiss?

_ Zalian didi, is am sofelSi

xelisuflebis sayrdenia, dadis

da xalxs aSinebs, Svili ki Tanatolebs

abulingebs. da ras ambobs,

iciT? _ vinmem rom axsenos

misi Svili, TviTon gauswordeba.

da, aba, gabedos policiam da mis

Svils Seexos. Cemi ZmisSvili miwa-

Si unda iwves da misma Svilma

sofelSi adamianebis damcireba da

daCagvra gaagrZelos?!1 sadauri

wesia?! sadaa kanoni?!

_ gamoZieba ras ambobs?

_ gamomZiebelma dambloka. nafareulis

policiis ufrosi moTminebas

mirCevs, arada, am dros me

mivwere, rom CemTvis eWvmitnilis

deda iyo odiSelaSvilebisa da CidraSvilebis

ojaxSi da mkacrad

gaafrTxila, rom misi SvilisTvis

xeli aravis daedo. da pasuxi raa,

iciT? _ daikiTxebian, bela, nu

nerviulob. eseni fiqroben, rom

me mSvidad vuyureb, ara!.. me ar

minda, rom mamaCemi mkvleli gaxdes.

ar minda, rom dedas Svili moukvdes.

minda, rom am qveyanaSi yvela

Tanabrad viyoT kanonTan. minda,

rom simarTle iTqvas da yvelafers

daerqvas Tavisi saxeli.

axla, Turme, Cems ZmisSvils

araferi aRar eSevelba! magram sxvis

Svilebs unda vuSvelo, sanam

mTeli arTanis axalgazrdoba

Tokze CamomxrCvali ar ipoves.

radgan ojaxis mier dasaxelebuli

eWvmitanili arasrulwlovania,

Cven mis identificirebas ar

vaxdenT. Tumca am Temaze muSaobas

gavagrZelebT.

`Svili SurisZiebis mizniT momikles, samarTals veZeb!~

ozurgeTSi, 2017 wels, axalgazrda mamakaci,

nene injgia

irakli tarielaZe, sakuTar manqanaSi gardacv-

591 71 39 98

lili ipoves. momxdarze sisxlis samarTlis saqme

aRiZra, Tumca am faqtidan 3 wlis Semdeg damna-

Saveebi jer kidev ar dasjilan. rogorc gardacvlilis deda „qronika+~-sTan

yveba, es iyo ganzrax mkvleloba.

nanuli tarielaZe:

àr gavCerdebi,

sanam

damnaSaveebi

ar daisjebian!~

vin da ratom cdilobda SurisZiebas?

ra kiTxvebi aqvs gardacvlilis ojaxs?

ra etapzea gamoZieba?

„qronika+~ nanuli tarielaZes es-

aubra:

_ ozurgeTSi 2016 wels ozurgeTis

N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.

meriam tenderi gamoacxada konkretul

miwis nakveTze. es tenderi zviad aTabagma

moigo, romelic Cveni naTesavi iyo.

swored amis gamo mosTxoves Cems Svils

pasuxi, misgan tenderis dabrunebas iTxovdnen.

Cvens saxlSi „qarTuli ocnebis”

mxardamWerebTan erTad movarda s. m.,

romelic Cems Svils saqmes urCevda, ratom

miiRe tenderSi monawileobao. maT

Cemi Svili scemes da saxli daarbies. amis

Semdeg saerTod SeaCeres es tenderi. garda

amisa, Cems Svils ijariT hqonda aRebuli

miwa, romelic SemoRoba da patara

„butka” Cadga, s. m. am adgilze „kai biWebTan”,

b. g.-Tan da sxvebTan erTad mivarda,

maT daarbies iqauroba. aseve im adgilas,

sadac Txilis baRi gvqonda gaSenebuli,

traqtori moiyvanes da Txili gadaTxares.

im periodSi Cemi Svili baTumSi midioda,

gzad kvlav daxvda s. m. Tavis SvilTan

erTad, romelTac iaraRi da dana hqondaT.

mas Semdeg, rac Cems Svilze Tavdasxma

scades, iraklim Tavis dacvis mizniT

gaagdebina iaraRi da dana, ra drosac Tavdacvis

momentSi maTive daniT Wriloba

miayena s. m.-s, Semdeg ki maTi gaSveleba

gamvlelebma moaxerxes. am incidentis Semdeg

Cemma Svilma gza ganagrZo, gzad ki s.

m.-m mas d. k., b. g. da maTi megobrebi daaxvedra,

romelTa vinaoba CvenTvis ucnobia.

isini daniT iyvnen SeiaraRebulebi.

maT mZime dazianebebi miayens Cems Svils,

maT Soris, Tavis areSi. gulSi rom ar moxvedroda

dana, man xelebiT daicva Tavi

da Rrma Wrilobebi hqonda xelze. s. m.-m

Cemi Svilis winaaRmdeg saCivari dawera.

_ Tqvenma Svilma masze Zaladobis

faqtze policias mimarTa?

_ policiam Cems Svils ar misca saSualeba,

saCivari daewera. veWvob, s. m.-s

imJamindeli ozurgeTis meri beglar sioriZe

mfarvelobda da swored sioriZis

miTiTebiT moqmedebda policiac. maT Cems

Svils ar misces gancxadebis daweris sa-

Sualeba. metic: Cemma meore Svilma maSinve

advokati aiyvana, Tumca advokats

iraklisTan Sesvlis saSualeba ar misces

manam, sanam Cemma Svilma gancxadebis daweraze

uari ar ganacxada.

amis Semdeg, SurisZiebis mizniT, s. m.

Cems Svils mudmivad dasdevda mosaklavad.

vinaidan m.-s sioriZe mfarvelobda,

policiaSi misvlas azri ar hqonda. metic:

im periodSi emigraciaSi vimyofebodi.

s. m.-m damireka da damemuqra: „icode,

Svils mogiklav. policia Cemia da ar

meSiniao”. am satelefono zaridan maleve

Cemi Svili sakuTar manqanaSi mokluli ipoves.

iaraRis gasrolis xma Cemma meore

Svilma gaigo. swored man naxa gardacvlili

Cemi Svili. informacia maqvs, Tu

sad aris damaluli mkvlelobis iaraRi.

es informacia samarTaldamcvel uwyebebs

mivawode, Tumca aranairi reagireba ar

mohyolia. mkvlelobis dRes Cemi Svili da

b. k. erTad gavidnen ludis sayidlad, ra

drosac Cems Svils erT-erTma mezobelma

daureka da masTan saxlSi misvla sTxova.

b.-m miTxra, rom radgan mezobelma daureka,

aRar gahyva, Torem Cemi Svilis saxlSi

marto gaSveba ar surda. mgonia, rom

Cemma mezobelma Segnebulad daureka, rom

marto gamoetyuebina, viTom eZmakaceboda,

magram man s. m.-s miTiTebiT daureka

Cems Svils. Tan mkvlelobis Rames mezobeli,

romelmac Cems Svils daureka, saer-

Tod ar gamoCenila. miuxedavad imisa, rom

is saxlSi iyo, arc SemTxvevis adgilze da

arc saavadmyofoSi ar misula. misma am

saqcielma eWvi gamiCina. Tan mkvlelobamde

s. m. da b. k. Cems saxls uTvalTvalebdnen.

amis Sesaxeb mezoblebmac ician.

rogorc Cans, maT ainteresebdaT, Cemi

Svili rogor gadaadgildeboda.

_ ra muxliT aris aRZruli Tqveni

Svilis mkvlelobis saqme da vin aris

braldebuli?

_ saqme mkvlelobis muxliT aris

aRZruli. yvelam yvelaferi icis, maT

Soris, policiamac, magram saqmeSi mowmeebi

arian, Sesabamisad, damnaSaves ver akaveben.

aRsaniSnavia isic, rom mkvlelobidan

sami Tvis Semdegac ki ar iyo Catarebuli

tansacmlis eqspertiza. me TviTon mivedi

samxaraulis eqspertizis biuroSi da

roca vikiTxe Cemi Svilis tansacmlis

eqspertizis Sesaxeb, Tu rodis iqneboda

pasuxebi, miTxres: saerTod ar iZebneba

msgavsi saxeli da gvario. rac Seexeba

braldebuls, igi dRemde aravin aris. imis

nacvlad, rom damnaSave cixeSi ijdes,

kidev memuqreba. roca s. m.-sTan mivedi da

vuTxari, es rogor gamikeTe-meTqi, mipasuxa:

yvelas dagwyvitavTo. aqve vityvi

imasac, rom am mkvlelobamde garveuli

periodiT adre s. m.-s mcdeloba hqonda,

Cemi Svili moekla. gzaze daxvda, Tumca

manqanaSi mezobeli qali ejda da amitom

aRar gaisroles. amis Sesaxeb me Tavad

mezobelma miambo. aseve minda aRvniSno:

Cemi Svilis mkvlelobidan sami Tvis Semdeg

ezoSi vimyofebodi, ra drosac s. m.-

m manqaniT gamoiara da Cemi misamarTiT

isrola, man damiZaxa: „wadi aqedan, Torem

Seni Svilis gzas gagayolebo”. tyvia ar

momxvedria, Tumca policias gamovuZaxe

da SemTxvevis adgilze movida. Semdeg

miTxres, rom mas iaraRi CamoarTves.

_ ras gegmavT?

_ sikvdilamde vibrZoleb, ar gavCerdebi,

sanam damnaSaveebi ar daisjebian. es

iyo ganzrax mkvleloba, Cemi Svili

SurisZiebis mizniT momikles da amisTvis

saTanadod unda daisajon. samarTals ve-

Zeb, ar daviRlebi.

„qronika+~-ma konfliqtis meore mxaresTanac

scada dakavSireba, magram uSede-

god. survilis SemTxvevaSi, redaqcia maT

sakuTari poziciis gamoxatvis saSuale-

bas miscems.

33

giorgi sakaruli

555 42 42 81

eqspertebma bevri ifiqres Tu

cota, daaskvnes, rom 2020 wlis gazafxuli-zafxulis sezonis

ferebi naturaluri da bunebrivTan daaxloebuli unda yo-

filiyo, Tumca amaze fiqri wlebis winaT qarTvel dizainer

TinaTin maRalaSvils ar dasWirvebia, radgan misi garderobi,

iseve rogorc modis saxli, ferTa gamiTa da sikaSkaSiT gvamax-

sovrebs Tavs. SeiZleba iTqvas, rom qarTuli modis biznesSi

TinaTin maRalaSvili sxva dizainerebisgan swored am mraval-

ferovnebiT, klasikurobiTa da daxvewilobiT gamoirCeva.


`dRes ukve

TinaTin maRalaSvili: `Cems SemoqmedebaSi

koronisa da pirbadis adgili ar aris~

is, rom qarTvelebs Savi

feri gansakuTrebulad gviyvars,

am stereotips dizaineri

sruliad amsxvrevs, rac im adamianebis

Cacmulobaze aisaxeba,

vinc TinaTin maRalaSvilis

brendis momxmarebelia.

igi 12 wlis manZilze ar kargavs

aqtualurobasa da individualizms.

aqamde Tu misi

brendi, ZiriTadad, mxolod viaipi

klientebisTvis iyo gaTvlili,

dizainerma axla gadawyvita,

rom yvela segments moergos

da pandemiis pirobebSi

momxmarebels is xazi SesTavazos,

romelzedac gansakuTrebuli

moTxovna iyo.

maRali modis kvireuli, gasvliTi

Cvenebebi evropasa da

aziis qveynebSi, _ es dagegmili

vizitebis is mokle CamonaTvalia,

rac qarTvel dizainers

koronavirusis gamo droebiT

gadaedo.

ras apirebs TinaTin maRa-

laSvili? ra mdgomareobaSia

dRes modis biznesi? ras fiqrobs

modis metri saqarTvelos

prezident salome zurabiS-

vilis Cacmulobaze? visTan

imuSavebda siamovnebiT?

am da sxva saintereso de-

talebis Sesaxeb „qronika+~-s

dizaineri TinaTin maRalaS-

vili esaubreba:

_ qalbatono TinaTin, pandemiam

Zalian bevri sfero gaa-

kotra da moSala. ekonomikuri

zarali naxa mcire da saSualo

biznesma. ra xdeba da dRes

konkretulad modis sferoSi?

_ katastrofa! saqarTvelo-

Si patar-patara krizisuli situaciebi

yovelTvis iyo xolme,

Tumca sazRvargareT miwvevebi

mainc gvqonda da im danaklisis

kompensirebas vaxerxebdiT. zogadad,

qarTveli dizainerebi

kargad vTanamSromlobT aziur

qveynebTan, igive azerbaijanTan,

yazaxeTTan, ukrainasTan,

ruseTTan da a. S. miuxedavad

imisa, rom minimaluri bazari

gvaqvs, Cven yovelTvis sainteresoebi

varT postsabWoTa

qveynebisTvis. aqtiurad iyo gamowerebi

da onlain gayidvebi.

stabilurad mqonda miwvevebi

evropis masStabiT: germaniaSi,

espaneTSi, italiaSi; israelSi.

es yvelaferi abalansebda im

ekonomikur mdgomareobas, rac

saqarTveloSi modis saxls

hqonda, dRes ki, mogexsenebaT,

ra situaciaSic varT.

CemTvis es ar aris mxolod

biznesi, aramed xelovneba da

TviTgamoxatvis saSualebaa, radgan

mxatvari var da am yvelafers

cota sxva kuTxiT vuyureb.

brendi „TinaTin maRalaSvili”

ar aris biznesi, es xelovnebaa,

radgan Cven ar vqmniT

masobriv samoss. aseTi samosis

SemqmnelebisTvis kidev ufro

problemuri gaxda dRevandeli

situacia, radgan masobrivi tansacmeli

bevria da misi realizeba

Zalian rTulia. CvenTan

TiTo-TiTo egzemplari iqmneba,

romelic yovelTvis iyideba da

Tavis patroni hyavs. Sesabamisad,

masStaburi dartyma am

ryevebs CvenTvis ar moutania.

_ quCis modaze, anu yoveld-

Riur xazze ar muSaobT?

_ quCis modaze ar vmuSaobT.

rasac vakeTebT, mxolod xeliT

namuSevari gvaqvs da Cveni momxmarebeli

yovelTvis gvyavs.

rogorc yvela, Cvenc damokidebulebi

varT laris kursze,

romelic aseve katastroful

mdgomareobaSia. gvaqvs kreditebi,

momiwia personalis Semcireba,

Sesabamisad, ramdenime

adamiani umuSevari darCa da

fizikurad muSaoba miwevs. es

yvelaferi, ra Tqma unda, Zalian

didi dartymaa. modis saxlis

xelmZRvaneli ar unda

vijde da ar unda vkeravde Cemi

xeliT, amas xalxi unda akeTebdes,

raTa sxva kuTxiT vmarTo

modis biznesi. imisTvis, rom

modis saxli mexsna gakotrebisgan,

yvelanair daTmobaze wasvla

momiwia da am saxiT daviwye

muSaoba. realurad, dRes ukve

gadarCenaze vmuSaobT. 2012

wels rom biznessesxi aviRe,

maSin dolaris kursi 1.67 iyo,

dRes 3.20-mde meryeobs. es

CvenTvis Zalian didi dartymaa.

_ Zalian bevr qveyanasTan

TanamSromlobT da uamrav modis

kvireulze gaqvT monawi-

leoba miRebuli. axla Tu

apirebdiT sadme gamgzavrebas

da rogor Secvala pandemiam

Tqveni gegmebi?

_ samwuxarod, pandemiam

yvelaferi Secvala. dagegmili

gvqonda espaneTis maRali modis

kvireulSi monawileobis

miReba, Semdeg madridis maRali

modis kvireulze viyaviT miwveulebi,

romelic, samwuxarod,

gaaCeres. aseve lvovis ma-

Rali modis kvireulze viyaviT

miwveulebi. es yvelaferi pandemiis

gamo gadaido. garda amisa,

aprilSi dagegmili gvqonda,

rom saqarTveloSi Cagvetarebina

maRali modis kvireuli,

romelic unda gadaqceuliyo

platformad mTeli aRmosavleT

evropis, postsabWoTa

sivrcisa da aziis qveynebisTvis,

sadac maRali donis dizainerebi

warmoadgendnen TavianT

koleqciebs. 14-ma qveyanam gamo-

Tqva survili, magram, samwuxarod,

es proeqtic gadaido. am

regulaciebiT warmoudgenelia

raime RonisZiebis Catareba,

radgan es unda iyos masStaburi

da maRali klasis modis kvireuli.

mogexsenebaT, Zalian bevr

qveyanasTan maqvs kontaqti da

yvela dabneulia, radgan RonisZiebebis

gadadeba uwevT. es

„dijiTal formatic” ar gamodis,

radgan yvela dizainers ur-

Cevnia, rom TviTon Cavides da

Caitanos koleqcia, rogorc me.

_ mkiTxvels rom avuxsnaT,

ras niSnavs „dijiTal formati”?

_ magaliTad, mwvane fonze

unda gadameRo koleqcia da Semdeg

es masala ucxoeTSi gamegzavna.

_ faqtobrivad, onlain Cveneba

SemogTavazes da es for-

mati TqvenTvis miuRebelia?

_ ra Tqma unda! miuRebeli

da Zalian didi sisulelea! Cems

partniorebs vuTxari, rom dav-

34

34 N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.


gadarCenaze vmuSaobT~

elodebi bednier momavals,

rodesac piradad Camovitan

koleqcias, piradad Cavexutebi

maT, piradad Cavacmev modelebs

da piradad miviReb im siamovnebas,

rasac Cemi sayvareli

saqme maniWebs mTeli cxovreba.

muSaobis procesia yvelaferi

da xelovanma adamianma es Tu ar

SeigrZeni, ra azri aqvs sxva

danarCens?!

_ ramdenad rTulia xelovani

adamianisTvis aseT situ-

aciaSi muSaoba? krizisi xom

Zalian uaryofiTad aisaxeba

kulturis, xelovnebisa da mo-

dis sferoze?

_ namdvilad, Tumca me mravalmxrivi

profilis dizaineri

var, aqedan gamomdinare, arasodes

miWirs situaciaze morgeba.

magaliTad, SarSan erTerTi

restornis dizaini gavakeTe,

Semdeg Zalian bevri Semo-

Tavazeba wamovida, mere „zalarestornis”

dizaini gavakeTe.

wesiT, me, rogorc xelovans,

yofiT problemebze ar unda

miwevdes fiqri, magram, samwuxarod,

fiqric gviwevs da sxva

bevri ramec, Tumca moverge am

situacias. Tu modis saxli sakuTar

Tavs ver Seinaxavs, maSin

sxva resurss movZebni, rom me

Sevinaxo, radgan CemTvis es sasicocxlod

mniSvnelovania,

rom gadavrCe. rac Seexeba pandemiasa

da arsebul situacias,

simarTle giTxraT, cota Tamamad

Sevxvdi, radgan, realurad,

CemTvis krizisuli periodi

cota adre, 2004 wels, „vardebis

revoluciis” Semdgom daiwyo;

meore krizisi 2008 wels

Semexo, iseve rogorc mTel

msoflios; mesame krizisi 2013-

14 wlebSi iyo, rodesac mosaxleobaSi

msyidvelunarianoba

sakmaod davarda. am periodSi

ZviradRirebuli koleqciis fasi

gavanaxevreT da amiT gadavarCineT

modis saxli. dResac

krizisia da realurad morgebulebi

varT am situacias. sazogadoebis

gulis feTqvas mivyvebiT

da fasebis gameoTxedeba

rom mogviwios, Cven amas gavakeTebT,

radgan realurad bazarze

davrCeT. swored amitom

arsebobs dRes 12 wlis man-

Zilze myarad modis saxli

TinaTin maRalaSvili.

_ rogorc Cans, Tqven iTva-

liswinebT qveyanaSi arsebul

ekonomikur mdgomreobas da

mosaxleobis moTxovnis mixed-

viT zrdiT an aklebT fass.

_ Cven yovelTvis viTvaliswinebT

momxmareblis survils.

oficialur feisbuq gverdze

gamokiTxva gavakeTeT, Tu vis

ra ferebSi unda, rom TinaTin

maRalaSvilis brendi ixilos?

aseve vin ra fasis farglebSi

SeiZenda, magaliTad, paltos?

aRmoCnda, rom gamokiTxulTa

umravlesoba Ria ferebs iTxovda,

imas rac mudmivad axasiaTebs

Cems brends da 300-idan 500

laramde Rirebul paltos. anu

sazogadoebisgan miviReT mesiji,

rom Cven es Tanxa SegviZlia

gadavixadoT paltoSi. belarusis

modis kvireulis prezidents

veubnebodi, rom sadac

arsebobs demna gvasalia, iq

yovelTvis arsebobs Saneli da

diori, sadac aris axalgazrduli,

giJuri, aranormaluri ideebi

da Tavdayira damdgari moda,

iq yovelTvis arsebobs klasikuri

da xeliT namuSevari ma-

Rali moda. gamomdinare iqidan,

rom 12 weli myarad vdgavarT

bazarze, e. i. Cven moTxovnadi

varT, moTxovnadia is ferebi,

rasac momxmarebels vTavazobT

da es Zalian maxarebs.

_ TqvenTvis ramdenad mis-

aRebia es fasebi?

_ miuxedavad imisa, rom Cven

ubralo qsovilze ar vmuSaobT,

gadmovewyveT am politikaze.

SevimuSaveT Zalian bevri varianti,

modeli, romelsac ar

sWirdeba didi dro kervisas,

davamateT Cveneburi „fiSka” da

paltoebis koleqcia ukve mzadebis

procesSia. aseTi iafi

fasebi modis saxls arasdros

hqonia, magram ras vizamT. es

mesiji sazogadoebisgan movida

da Cven misi interesebi unda

davakmayofiloT. CvenTan siaxlea

aseve is, rom mamakacis xazze

muSaobas viwyebT. pandemiam

dagvazarala, magram rodesac

erTi kari ixureba, meore ixsneba

axali mimarTulebebiT.

gamousworebeli optimisti var

da vcdilob, axal relsebze

gadavide. maRali moda rom gadavarCino,

axali mimarTulebebi

unda Sevqmna. aqedan gamomdinare,

TinaTinis saxalxo xazs

vakeTeb, romelic damuSavebis

procesSia. is, rac axla mogiyeviT,

TqvenTan eqskluziurad

vTqvi.

_ pandemiis periodSi bevrma

dizainerma Secvala muSaobis

stili: daiwyo sxvadasxva nivTisa

Tu aqsesuaris Seqmna. ga-

mouSves brenduli pirbadeebi.

Tqven am kuTxiT ar gimuSavi-

aT?

_ pirvel rigSi, saSineli

protesti maqvs am situaciis

mimarT. gaCerebulia yvelaferi

da velodebi, rodis amoZravdeba

rame, rom mec avmoZravde.

idealisti var, arasodes damixatavs

avadmyofoba, CemTvis yvelaferi

unda iyos lamazi, idealuri,

esTetikuri da mTavari

faqtori, _ Rimili aucilebelia.

pandemiis drosac ki,

rodesac manqanebiT siaruli

aikrZala, fexiT movdiodi marto

samsaxurSi da vmuSaobdi.

swored maSin mqonda SemoTavazeba,

rom pirbadeebi gamekeTebina

da gameyida, magram saSineli

protesti gamiCnda, radgan

me Tu pirbades gavakeTeb, aucileblad

gavaCuqeb da ar gavyidi.

bevrma dizainerma ipova gamosavali,

rom biznesi gadaerCina

da pirbadeebis gakeTebagayidva

daiwyo. mesmis da ar

minda maT winaSe rame cudad

gamomivides, amitom bodiSs vixdi...

magram veravis gaWirvebaze

da avadmyofobaze fuls ver

viSovi. saSineli protesti

maqvs pirbadis gamo, miuxedavad

imisa, rom yvela sajaro dawesebulebaSi

unda gvekeTos, radgan

kanoni gvavaldebulebs! esec

mesmis, magram Cems Semoqmedeba-

Si koronasa da pirbadis adgili

ar aris. arc erTi foto ar

gadamiRia pirbadeSi da saSineli,

katastrofuli protesti

maqvs am procesis mimarT.

_ sruliad gasagebi da mis-

aRebia es protesti. modasa da

mis tendenciebs davubrundeT.

_ rodesac modis tendencia

arsebobs, is arsad qreba. sul

vabob, rom moda ar aris viRacis

Seqmnili, igi adamianis mo-

Txovnebidan da cxovrebis stilidan

gamomdinarea. realurad,

dRes rom gvaqvs sportulklasikuri

moda, aseTi tendenciebi

cxovrebis ritmma da re-

Jimma moitana. rogorc me-20

`brendi `TinaTin maRalaSvili~ ar

aris biznesi, es xelovnebaa, radgan

Cven ar vqmniT masobriv samoss~

saukunis dasawyisSi korsetebisgan

ganTavisuflda qali, imitom

rom qalma daiwyo Sroma,

muSaoba da faSfaSa kabiT fabrikaSi

ver dajdeboda, miT umetes,

saWes ver atarebda. moda

ar aris calke aRebuli sfero.

moda, dawyebuli Zveli egviptis

periodidan, yovelTvis epoqis

socialur-politikur ganvi-

Tarebas mihyveboda. realurad,

dRes is moda gvaqvs, rac cxovrebam

moitana. dRes xalxs

rogorc arasdros, ise sWirdeba

naTeli ferebi da pozitiuri

muxti.

_ TqvenTvis ra aris moda?

_ sulieri mdgomareoba. Tu

raRacas vqmni, imitom ki ara,

rom viRacas moewonos an _ ara,

amas im wuTs vgrZnob, sizmarSi

vxedav. magaliTisTvis davasaxeleb

Cems erT-erT warmatebul

koleqcias, romelsac davarqvi

„dacemuli angelozi”. es koleqcia

oTx maRali modis kvireulze

iyo gatanili. vikingebis

musikas vusmendi, rodesac idea

gaCnda, rom es koleqcia gamekeTebina.

ori wlis winaT masobrivad

xdeboda qalebze Zaladoba.

Cveneba iwyeboda saqorwilo

kabiT, anu koncefcia iyo

Semdegi: gaaCnia, vin gyavs gaTxovebis

Semdeg gverdiT, Tu ga-

Wrian frTebs, Sen ukve dacemuli

angelozi xdebi, magram dacemis

Semdegac ki yvela qals

SeuZlia fexze adgoma da cxovrebis

axlidan dawyeba. es Tematika

Cavde koleqciaSi, sadac

erTgvari tkivili da protesti

gamovxate qalTa Zaladobis

winaaRmdeg. Zalian warmatebuli

proeqti gamovida, didi

gamoxmaureba mohyva. sizmarSi

minaxavs kaba, Semdeg damixatavs

da sam dReSi damimTavrebia.

am yvelafers ganaTleba unda

uZRodes win, raTa SegeZlos

ferTa Sexameba, konturisa da

stilis SegrZneba... samxatvro

akademia davamTavre, kostiumis

istorias vkiTxulobdi sxvadasxva

modis saxlSi. bevrma icis

xolme Tqma, ra dros modaao da

am dros yvelas ainteresebs,

romel varskvlavsa Tu politikoss

ra acvia, rogor gamoiyureba,

vin acmevs, ra fereb-

Si da a. S.

_ moda da politika _ rac

ar unda rTuli periodi iyos

qveyanaSi, nebismier sajaro

figuras formaSi yofna moeTxoveba.

gansakurebiT politi-

koss qalbatonebs, romlebic

unda icavdnen etikets. romeli

qarTveli politikosi qal-

batonis imijze izrunebdiT

didi siamovnebiT? rogorc

cnobilia, Tqven acmevdiT Tbi-

lisis yofili meris, daviT

narmanias meuRles.

_ diax, TikunasTan (daviT narmanias

meuRle) wlebi vmuSaobdi.

is aris adamiani, romelic

yovelTvis iRebs rCevas da, sxvaTa

Soris, erTad viswavleT

bevri ram. pirveli sajaro gamosvlis

Semdeg viswavleT dozirebulad

raRacebis CarCoSi

Casma. Tikas Zalian uyvarda Ria

ferebi, gansakuTrebiT afasebs

xeliT namuSevars, Zalian bevri

luqi Segvikeravs da dRemde

vmegobrobT. vinc mommarTavs,

nebismier adamianTan vimuSavebdi,

radgan CemTvis yvela persona

sainteresoa. apolitikuri

var da es mexmareba yvelasTan

muSaobaSi.

_ visTan ver imuSavebdiT?

_ adamianTan, romelic gamudmebiT

meubneba da imeorebs

sityvebs: ase minda, ase minda,

ase, ase... msgavss adamians piradapir

veubnebi, rom Tqven ar

gWirdebaT dizaineri, radgan

imdenad iciT ukve, rac gindaT,

rom jobia, mixvideT nebismier

atelieSi mkeravTan, ufro iafic

dagijdebaT da mec ar viwvaleb-meTqi.

_ ras ityviT saqarTvelos

pirvel qal prezidentze? ram-

denad gemovnebianad icvams igi

da ras SecvlidiT mis Cacmu-

lobaSi?

_ ar msurs masze saubari.

ubralod, rogorc dizaineri,

getyviT, rom sanam prezidenti

gaxdeboda, bevrad gemovnebianad

ecva.

N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.

35


`sawyenia, rom saxelmwifo,

„TaTulisTan da kaxaberTan

giorgi sakaruli

erTad” _ ase erqmeva toqSous,

555 42 42 81

romelsac sul male onlain arxze

vixilavT. iqamde ki mayurebels

saSualeba aqvs, „studio pirvelis” feisbuqgverdze naxos

araerTi saxaliso video, romelic aseve TaTuli ediSeraSvilisa

da kaxaber Sartavas avtorobiTaa. msaxiobma da re-

Josorma erToblivi gadacemis gakeTeba mas Semdeg gadaw-

yvites, rac orive maTganma „postivi” datova, ufro sworad,

daatovebines da gaurkveveli mizezebiT, ise rom arc auxsni-

aT, kaxaber Sartava pirdapir Svebulebidan SvebulebaSi

gauSves, anu saxlSi. xolo rac Seexeba TaTulis, is didi dile-

mis winaSe daayenes, _ an gadacemis wamyvanoba, an seriali „didi

ojaxi”, romelic „mTavar arxze” gadis.

da kargi ambavi davutoveT iq dar-

Cenilebs.

_ Tqven meore sezonidan aRar

gagirZelebiaT gadacemis wayvana.

ratom?

kaxaberi:

_ TaTuli Zalian warmatebul

serialSi gadavida da damtova, me

ki am arxidan gamomiSves. aravin

icis, ratom.

TaTuli:

_ mgoni, TviTonac ar ician.

_ sruliad gaufrTxileblad

gamogiSves samsaxuridan?

msaxiobi TaTuli ediSeraSvili

da reJisori kaxaber Sartava Tavisi

gegmebisa da siaxleebis Sesaxeb

„qronika+~-is mkiTxvels uyve-

bian, Tumca Cveni saubari maTi

megobrobiT daviwyeT.

kaxaber Sartava, reJisori:

_ erT-erT speqtaklze vmuSaobdi

da TaTuli ediSeraSvili aviyvane

rolze. rodesac davureke da

telefonze mipasuxa, im wuTidan

ukve vmegobrobT. iqamde ubralod

vicnobdiT erTmaneTs da satelefono

saubris Semdeg davmegobrdiT.

Zalian sasiamovno iyo repeticiebi

da TaTulisTan TanamSromloba.

Semdeg TaTuli erT-erT

televiziaSi muSaobda, sadac wamyvan

mamakacs eZebdnen, man ki Cemi

Tavi SesTavaza. simarTle giTxraT,

didi interesi televiziis mimarT

ar mqonia, magram iqidan gamomdinare,

rom TaTuli iq muSaobda,

davTanxmdi.

TaTuli ediSeraSvili, msaxio-

bi:

_ pirvel zars minda, davubrunde.

saerTod, Zalian sasiamovnoa,

roca speqtaklSi gakaveben, magram

cota gavbrazdi, Tu ratom ar SemomTavaza

princesis an lamazi gogos

roli. es xumrobiT da realurad

kudiani uniWo msaxiobis rolze

damamtkica. Zalian didi komfortia,

rodesac reJisorTan

saerTo enas gamonaxav. miT umetes,

am saerTo enis gamonaxvam profesiulad

iseT megobrobamde migviyvana,

romelic amyarebs ndobas,

siyvaruls, lxinis, sikeTisa Tu

mwuxarebis gaziarebas.

kaxaberi:

_ aqve minda aRvniSo, _ Zalian

didi roli iTamaSa gemovnebis

TvalsazrisiT im faqtormac, rom

Cemi da TaTulis pedagogi iyo

Salva gawerelia _ erT enaze vmetyvelebdiT.

albedaa sxva reJisorebTan SedarebiT.

TqvenTvis ramdenad mis-

aRebi aRmoCnda igi?

_ miuxedavad imisa, rom kaxas

araCveulebrivi speqtaklebi hqonda

dadgmuli, Cemda samwuxarod,

ar mqonda nanaxi. realurad, kaxas,

rogorc reJisors, ar vicnobdi,

magram maqvs imis siTamame, rom Tu

samuSao procesSi reJisorTan ver

vTanxmdebi, masTan yofnis valdebuleba

ar makavebs. garda amisa,

msaxiobebs intuicia didi doziT

gvaqvs. garda amisa, Zalian keTilganwyobili

viyavi kaxas mimarT da

es TanamSromloba movsinje.

ratomac ara! _ mTavaria, rom Cvenma

muSaobam gaamarTla. rac Seexeba

televizias, rodesac mamakacs

eZebdnen wamyvanis poziciaze, kaxas

kandidatura SevTavaze. Zalian

mindoda, rom kaxa Cemi partniori

yofiliyo, radgan Cven realurad

vlaparakobT erT enaze, oRond es

ar niSnavs, rom ar vkamaTobT.

Zalian mniSvnelovania, rom wamyvans

iseTi Tanawamyvani partniori

gyavs, visTanac Tvalis komunikacia

gamogdis, misi gesmis usityvod

da iumori gasagebia. partniori

unda geimedebodes, zustad

unda grZnobde da miT umetes,

roca es aris pirdapiri

eTeri. starti

aviReT am gadacemaSi,

rogorc

partniorebma

eqskluzivi

sad vixilavT

TaTulisa da

kaxaberis axal

toqSous?!

kaxaberi:

_ SvebulebaSi viyavi da Sematyobines,

rom ganTavisuflebuli

var.

_ mizezi ar uTqvamT, ratom an

risTvis?

_ simarTle giTxraT, ar davinteresebulvar

da arc axla mainteresebs.

_ TaTuli, Tqven serialis

gamo wamoxvediT arxidan?

_ diax. Tavidan serialze vTqvi

uari, miuxedavad imisa, rom guli

mwydeboda, radgan msaxiobi var,

Cemi saqme es aris da Zalian mindoda

serialSi TamaSi. uaris miuxedavad,

ori Tvis Semdeg isev SemomTavaza

„didi ojaxis” reJisorma,

rom iqneb, davfiqrebuliyavi da

mivsuliyavi serialSi. mokled,

kargad imuSaves imisTvis, rom serialSi

davbrunubuliyavi.

_ ratom ambobdiT uars, prob-

lema iyo, paralelurad rom sxva

arxze, oRond serialSi geTama-

SaT?

_ xazgasmiT minda vTqva, rom

„mTavar arxs” arasdros hqonia

problema, sxva arxze yofiliyavi

da SuadRis gadacema wameyvana.

miTxres, modi CvenTan, xels ar

SegiSliT, ar gvaqvs problema, magram

sadac vmuSaobdi, im arxze

miTxres uari, rom CvenTan ase ar

gamovao. realurad, me ar wamovsulvar

televiziidan. arCevanis

winaSe damayenes da bunebrivia,

avirCie is, rac yvelaze metad mabednierebs

_ Cemi profesia, Tumca

wamyvanobaSi rom movsinje sakuTari

Zalebi, Zalian momewona da

Semiyolia am ambavma.

_ xom ar nanobT am gadaw-

yvetilebas?

_ ar vnanob, piriqiT.

_ mokled, am yvelafris

Semdeg gaCnda idea, rom internet

sivrceSi gagekeTebi-

naT sakuTari gadacema?

mogviyeviT dawvrilebiT, ras

apirebT, ra iqneba da a. S.

TaTuli:

_ Salva gawerelias nastudentarebs

TvalebiT

SegviZlia laparaki, taniT

vgrZnobT erTmaneTs da

bevri sxva iseTi Tviseba

arsebobs, rasac ubralod

ver gadmogcemT.

_ TaTuli, Tqven rogorc

msaxiobs, ramdenad didi ndobis

faqtori gqondaT kaxaberis mima-

rT, rogorc reJisoris? bevri

msaxiobia, romelic axalbeda re-

JisorTan ver riskavs TanamSrom-

lobas, Tumca ar vambob, rom kaxa

damwyebi reJisoria, ubralod, ax-

36

kaxaberi:

_ saqarTveloSi Zalian cotaa

iseTi adamiani, romelic yvelas

uyvars da aseTia TaTuli: Tavmdabalia,

bevrs fiqrobs imaze, rom

amxela siyvaruls gafrTxileba

unda. me ufro Tamami var. rodesac

samsaxuris gareSe davrCi, TaTulis

SevTavaze, rom internet

sivrceSi gagvekeTebina gadacema.

vipove adamiani, romelsac aqvs aparatura

da gadavwyvite, gamekeTebina

onlaingverdi, sadac iqneboda

Cemi da TaTulis toqSou. bevri

fiqris Semdeg TaTulim Zalian

xmamaRla miTxra: daviwyoT! im

36 N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.


TaTuli:

_ samwuxarod, saerTo tendenciad

iqca socialur qselSi viRacebis

jvarze gakvra da brtyelbrtyeli

sityvebiT Wkuis rigeba,

TiTqos msgavsi ram mas ar Caudenia

an ar ufiqria. CemTvis amxela

agresia warmoudgenelia da msgavsi

precedentebi saTqmels migrovebs.

sanam sxvas galanZRav da

Wkuas daarigeb, sakuTari cxovreba

moiwesrige. ar vici, ratom xdeba,

magram viRacisTvis TiTqos

modaSi Semovida es lanZRva. martiv

magaliTs getyviT: iTamaSe

speqtaklis premiera, Semodis Sen-

Tan sagrimioroSi adamiani, agiyvanes

qeba-didebiT mecxre caze da

gamosuli ar aris oTaxidan, rom

ambobs, _ ar varga! es imdenad manadgurebs,

ver warmoidgenT, imitom

ki ara, rim vinmes moewona an

ar moewona speqtakli, _ ara, Sen

Tu kolega xar, Tu keTilismsurveli

xar da rame ar mogewona,

ufleba gaqvs, rom es miTxra,

oRond Tqmis formas gaaCnia. roca

keTil rCevas miscem adamians, Sei-

Zleba, is ar dageTanxmos, magram

mere dafiqrdes, xolo rodesac

pirSi aqeb da zurgsukan lanZRav,

amiT xom samardeba is faseulebe-

romelic Sen airCie, ar gismens~

dRis mere Cveni megobroba gadaizarda

Cvens saqmeSi.

TaTuli:

_ marTla miWirs gadawyvetilebebis

miReba, magram aqac erTma

faqtorma imuSava _ imedma da interesma,

Tu ra gamogviva. konkretul

lokaciebze mqonda Sinagani

winaaRmdegoba, rac ver gavakeTe,

ver vTqvi an ar momwonda, axla mominda,

rom es yvelaferi amenazRaurebina

da meCvenebina sakuTari

TavisTvis.

kaxaberi:

_ TaTuli msaxiobia: mividoda

gadaRebaze, grims gaukeTebdnen da

yvelaferi wesrigdeboda. aq ukve

TaTulim sxva raRacebi unda gadalaxos.

TaTuli:

_ Cemi profesiis iqiT gamiCnda

saqme, romelic ar mikeTebia, ar

vici, vswavlob. Zalian swori droa

imisTvis, rom dagrovili gamocdilebebi

gamoviyenoT. axla risi

swavlac daviwye, droulia.

kaxaberi:

_ TumaniSvilis TeatrSi rom

SemomTavazes speqtaklis dadgma,

maSin miTxres, ori kvira gaqvso.

TumaniSvilis TeatrSi speqtaklis

dadgma Zalian didi pasuxismgeblobaa.

swored maSin vTqvi, rom

me amas gavakeTeb! Zalian didi gamocdis

winaSe videqi, _ an talRa

CamiTrevda, an mis kenweroSi moveqceodi

da, ra Tqma unda, davdgi es

speqtakli. mec da TaTulic mizandasaxulebi

varT: ar unda SegeSindes,

sworad unda iaro am miznisken

da gaukeTebeli, miuRweveli

araferia.

TaTuli:

_ absoluturad carieli jibeebiT

da nuli TeTriT vakeTebT am

yvelafers. ar SegviZlia ar aRvniSnoT

„lega frodaqSeni”, levan

gabaZe, romelic sruliad usasyidlod

gvidgas gverdiT, gvexmareba

da teqnikurad uzrunvelgvyofs.

is gvendo, radgan dRes ar aris is

fufuneba, rom adamianma dro tyuilad

dakargo, roca sanacvlod

arafers gTavazoben. xazs vusvam,

rom Cveni, Cemi da kaxaberis wamowyebis,

onlainarxis ukan aravin da

araferi dgas, mxolod varT me,

kaxaberi da levan gabaZe. Cveni

arxis mTavari mesijia, rom is iyos

yvelasTvis, saintereso adamianebisTvis.

vapirebT konkretuli

proeqtebis gakeTebas, sadac aqtiurad

CaerTveba mayurebelic.

kaxaberi:

_ aucileblad unda vTqva, rom

Zalian kargi xalxi dagvidga gverdiT.

fotografi ika Tavisi studiiT,

vizaJisti nino martaSvili.

TaTuli:

_ ufro da ufro vrwmundebi,

rom sworad daviwyeT. realurad,

dRes ofisic ar gagvaCnia. gvinda,

yvelas davanaxoT, rom yvelaferi

SesaZlebelia, mTavaria mizani.

_ Tqveni mizani ra aris?

_ yvela azrs aqvs arsebobis

ufleba, Tavisufleba yvelaze

mniSvnelovania, rac gagvaCnia da

romelsac xan viyenebT, xan _ ara,

xan kidev arasworad viyenebT. absoluturad

Tavisufali var Cems

gadawyvetilebebSi, Cems teqsteb-

Si, videoebSi, rac mabednierebs!

SemiZlia vilaparako is, rac mawuxebs,

rac maxarebs da rasac

saWirod miviCnev. Zalian swori

droa amisTvis. msaxiobebis privelegiaa

is, rom Cvens saTqmels vambobT

roliT, kinoSi an scenaze,

magram 21-e saukuneSi profesiebma

forma Seicvala, Tundac pandemiidan

gamomdinare. mravali Tvea,

TeatrSi scenaze ar vmdgarvar da

bevri saTqmeli damigrovda. es

rom ar gavuSva, ar SemiZlia, radgan

me amiT vcxovrob.

_ SemoTavazebis SemTxvevaSi

xom ar gamoricxvT, rom Tqveni es

formati sxva arxze gadavides?

kaxaberi:

_ Tu Tavisufleba ar dairRveva,

Tu urTierTSeTanxmeba iqneba

da Cvens gemovnebaSi Cajdeba esa

Tu is arxi, ratomac ara.

TaTuli:

_ miuxedavad imisa, rom am

etapze nuli TeTri gvaqvs, Cven

konkretuli SemoTavazeba gvqonda,

sponsorobis saxiT, magram

uari vTqviT.

_ ratom?

_ imitom, rom am yvelafers

roca adamiani sakuTari miznebisTvis

gamoiyenebs, iq ukve TaTulisa

da kaxabers araferi esaqmebaT.

_ TaTuli, ra aris Tqveni mTavari

saTqmeli, rac dRes dagi-

grovdaT?

_ Zalian bevri. ar Camovyvebi,

ra procesebis gamo, magram Cems

saTqmels gavaxmovaneb, Tumca konkretuli

faqtebis gareSe. damigrovda

emociebi, rom arc ise kargad

gvaqvs saqme, rogorc Cven migvaCnia.

aucileblad unda gagixardes

sxvisi warmateba, Tu ginda,

rom Sen iyo bednieri. aucileblad

unda miaqcio yuradReba Sens gverdiT

myof adamians, romelsac

Zalian uWirs silierad, finansurad

Tu sxva mxriv. saTqmeli dami-

N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.

grovda adamianur usamarTlobaze,

rac, mgoni, kacobriobis problemaa.

Cumad ar unda iyo, radgan

siCume danaSaulia, kargic unda

Tqva.

kaxaberi:

_ isedac amdeni negativi xdeba

Cven garSemo da rodesac reJisorebi

ama Tu im piesas iReben, mivdivar

da Zalian negatiur, mZafr

siuJetebs vxedav. Cems speqtakl-

Si, sadac TaTulic TamaSobs, vaCvene,

Tu ra aris bedniereba, feradi

garemo da pozitivi. es gaxlavT

speqtakli, sadac ar arsebobs

uaryofiTi gmiri. adamianebs

mogvenatra feradovneba. Tu ginda,

rom vaCvenoT omi, davupirispiroT

mas mSvidoba, es ar aris Cemi

sityvebi da marTlac, Cven Segvi-

Zlia, rom sxva mxriv wamoviRoT es

siTbo, siyvaruli, pozitivi.

bi, risTvisac gviyvars Teatri,

kino, baleti Tu zogadad xelovneba.

samwuxarod, zurgsukan

adamianis lanZRva viRacebisTvis

karg tonad miiCneva, rac CemTvis

did sigoimesTan asocirdeba.

_ pandemias minda Sevexo. rTu-

li periodi gamoviareT da

dResac gavdivarT, rasac ganicdis

mTeli msoflio, magram evro-

pis sxva qveynebisgan gansxvavebiT

saqarTvelo Zalian dazaralda:

CamoiSala ekonomika, yvela sfero

TiTqmis gaCerebulia da gansakuTrebuli

ziani miadga kul-

turas. samwuxarod, saxelmwifom

ver da ar moicala TeatrisTvis,

xelovnebisTvis. ver gamoinaxa

`bevri saTqmeli damigrovda~

gza, rom Teatrebi gaxsniliyo da

Cveul reJimSi Tu ara, regula-

ciebis dacviT mainc daewyo

muSaoba.

TaTuli:

_ saSinlad gabrazebuli var.

kargad ar maxsovs saxeli da gvari,

magram erTma adamianma Tqva, rom

arasaWiro sivrceebi droebiT,

pirvel oqtombramde gadaiwevso

da amaSi moeqca Teatri. Turme,

Teatri arasaWiro sivrce yofila.

arCevnebi modis da arc erT politikoss,

Tundac sityvier dapirebaSi,

ar uxsenebia Teatri da

zogadad xelovneba an SesaZloa, me

ar momismenia, ar vici. mgonia, rom

saerTod aravis aRelvebs, ra xdeba

kulturis sferoSi. „Tavisufal

TeatrSi” premiera unda meTamaSa

maisSi da dRemde ar vici,

rodis viTamaSeb. me kidev sxva sa-

Sualebebi maqvs, riTac SeiZleba,

rom visazrdoo, magram TeatrSi

arian adamianebi, romlebsac sxva

Semosavali ar gaaCniaT. me vkiTxulob

Zalian niWieri artistebis,

Cemi kolegebis, Cemi megobrebis

statusebs, rom isini eZeben samsaxurebs

da CemTvis es tragikulia.

kaxaberi:

_ axla viRac ityvis, rom msoflio

am mdgomareobaSia, rac Cvenc

kargad viciT da ra gveTeatrebao,

magram xom SeiZleba, rom viRacam

ifiqros kulturis sferoze, naxon

raRac gamosavali, magram iciT,

ra ar mesmis? _ rodesac baTumSi

klubebi gadaWedili iyo, 2500 kaci

minimum erTmaneTs ajda kiserze,

Tu es ar aris safrTxis Semcveli,

Teatri ratom Seicavas safrTxes,

sadac mayurebeli skamgamotovebiT,

distanciiT dasxdeboda? aSS-

Si an sxva qveyanaSi Tu daixaura

Teatrebi, saxelmwifo uxdis adamianebs

saarsebo minimums da specialurad

am sferosTvis konkretuli

Tanxa gamoiyo, magram aq,

samwuxarod, arc ganixileba is, Tu

rogor SeiZleba gadavarCinoT esa

Tu is sfero. aiRes da gadades

gverdze. damokidebuleba mwyins.

TaTuli:

_ Cveni qveynis savizito bara-

Ti aris kultura da amas ar vaqcevT

yuradRebas.

kaxaberi:

_ yvelaze sawyeni is aris, rom

saxelmwifo, romelic Sen airCie,

Sen aWmev, imitom, rom man Sen yuradReba

mogaqcios, arc gismens da

arc aintereseb. es ar aris mxolod

dRevandeli problema. rac

Tavi maxsovs, Cemi saxelmwifo ar

mismens. me xom am qveynis moqalaqe

var, es xom Cemi saxlia, rogor Sei-

Zleba, raRac gadawyvetilebebi miiRo

ase uxeSad. iqneb, me ar mesmis,

magram unda gamagebino, rom es

asea. gamovidnen da gviTxran, rom

xalxo, ori Tve unda iSimSiloT!

gamovidnen da gviTxran, adamianebad

CagvTvalon, arafrad rom ar

mivaCnivarT sakuTar qveyanaSi.

_ sad xedavT gamosavals?

_ Secdoma daSvebulia Zalian

Rrma warsulSi. gamosavali moqalaqeebma

sakuTar TavSi unda

veZeboT da aqedan unda daviwyoT

problemis mogvareba. sanam

qaRalds dakuWav da gadaagdeb

aivnidan, sanam manqanis minas Camowev

da sigarets gadaagdeb, saxelmwifo

ver aSendeba. saxelmwifo Ti-

Toeuli Cvenganisgan Sedgeba, Cvengan

iwyeba da Tavis droze rom

saTanadod davmdgariyaviT, amas

dRes veRaravin gagvibedavda. axla

Zalian martivad bedaven raRacebs.

dRes rom ar gvismenen, es davTeseT

Tavis droze. Sen unda iyo

kanonmorCili, radgan patrulma

ver gagibedos kanonis iqiT veraferi.

Zalian martivad SeizRuda Cemi

uflebebi, rodesac Svebulebidan

yovelgvari axsnis gareSe gamaTavisufles.

TaTuli:

_ gamosavali aris ganaTleba,

sakuTar TavTan da erTmaneTTan

pasuxismgebloba, kanonis morCileba

da ara SiSi da erTmaneTis upativcemuloba.

CemTvis warmoudgenelia,

rom kriminals gagebiT

movekidoT da getyviT, ratom: dedaCemis

saflavidan moipares marmarilos

didi lamazi jvari da am

faqts ver movekidebi gagebiT! Cem-

Tvis Zalian mtkivneuli Temaa. ar

mjera, rom iq vinme mSieri deda

mivida da SvilisTvis moipara es

konkretuli wm. ninos jvari, rom

SvilisTvis gaekeTebina saxlSi

bulioni, ar mjera amis. sanam kriminali

iqneba da sanam kanonis ar

SegveSindeba, ver gavalT napirze.

gaunaTlebeli adamiani saSiSia.

37


toCis 4X4

seqtembris baSos merve dRes, musubino iCibanze

(dRis daskvniT orTabrZolaSi) toCinoSini

oZeki takakeiSos Seerkina. iaponeli sumotori

levanisTvis rTuli metoqea, Cveneburs 9 dapirispirebidan

mxolod 1 gamarjveba hqonda.

sabednierod, statistikam mogvatyua da

qarTvelma warmatebas miaRwia! taCi-ais (Tavdapirveli

Sejaxeba) dros Seatyo, rom mowinaaRmdege

Zalian daxrili modioda, zemodan daqaCa

da saxelovani oZeki dohios daanarcxa!

levanis metoqe xval kidev erTi oZeki

asanoiama unda yofiliyo, magram is baSos

CamoSorda. oponenti vin iqneba, xval gairkveva.

toCinoSinis balansi amJamad 4 gamarjveba da

4 marcxia.

evroaTasebi qarTul klubebs

evropis ligis sakvalifikacio etapze ruminuli „universitatiasa”

da rusuli „dinamos” damarcxebiT Tbilisis „lokomotivma” ukve gamoimuSva

780 000 evro. aqedan 240 000 monawileobisTvis, 260 000 „universitatias”

barieris gadalaxvisTvis da Sesabamisad meore etapze monawileobisTvis,

280 000 ki _ moskovis „dinamos” gagdebisTvis da, Sesabamisad,

mesame etapze monawileobisTvis. jamurad, 780 000.

diax, evropa ligaze mxolod monawileobisTvis uefa klubs 240 aTasiT

asaCuqrebs. swored am Tanxas miiReben baTumis „dinamo” da „sabur-

Talo”.

da ra iqneba Semdeg? mesame sakvalifikacio etapis gavlisTvis, anu

flei-ofis sagzuris mosapovebad, klubebi damatebiT 300 000 evros miiReben.

rogorc iciT, Tbilisis „dinamo” farerebze „klaksviks” xvdeba,

xolo „loko” aseve stumrad espanur granadas eTamaSeba.

flei-ofis gadalaxvis SemTxvevaSi ki jgufuri etapia. axla davTvaloT:

jgufSi mxolod monawileobisTvis TiToeul klubs 2,92 milioni

evro ergeba. yvela, eqvsive matCi rom waagos, mainc...

cxadia, CempionTa ligaSi sxva Tanxebia. ager, magaliTad Tbilisis

„dinamom” albanur „tiranasTan” pirvel sakvalifikacioze monawileobisTvis

280 000 evro gamoimuSava. magram rom moego da meore etapze

gasuliyo, damatebiT 380 000 evros iSovida. meorec rom gadaelaxa, anu

„crvena zvezda” daemarcxebina da mesame etapze gasuliyo, zemodan kidev

480 000 evro... Tumca, rogorc wesi, qarTuli klubebi CempionTa ligaSi

Sors ver midian, arada, ra Tanxebia?!

ise, ramxela sxvaobaa: Tu evropa ligis jgufur etapze monawileobisTvis

uefa yvela klubs 2,92 milions uxdis, CempionTa ligaSi es Tanxa

15,25 milionia!

evroSansi _

farerebi,

moldova Tu

irlandia?!

nionSi, uefas Stab-binaSi gamarTulma wilisyr-

am evropis ligis jgufis Sansi daxata.

Tbiliselebi Tu dedaqalaqelebi farerebis

„klaksvikTan” evropa ligis mesame sakvalifikacio

etaps daZleven, flei ofSi maTi metoqe irlandiur

„dandalksa” da moldovur „Serifs” Soris gam-

arjvebuli iqneba.

amaze ukeTess wilisyras qarTuli klubi ver

inatrebda, imis miuxedavad, rom jgufur etapamde

darCenili orive matCis stumrad gamarTva mouw-

evs.

rac Seexeba Tbilisis „lokomotivs”: gia

WiabriSvilis gunds jer urTulesi matCi elis

espanur „granadasTan”, warmatebuli TamaSis SemTxvevaSi

ki flei ofSi maTi metoqe Svedur „malmiosa”

da zagrebis „lokomotivs” Soris gamarjve-

buli iqneba.

„lokomotivi” granadaSi iTamaSebs da mogebis

SemTxvevaSi, xorvatiasac unda estumros.

38

daupatiJebeli stumari

da qarTveli policieli

Tbilisis „lokomotivisgan” moskovis

„dinamos” Zlevam iseTi sixaruli mogvgvara,

mxolod fexburTis CarCoebSi rom

ver eteva.

sportisgan Zalian Sors mdgomi sixarulic

iyo, magram ise rogor moxdeboda,

Tavadve ar gagvefuWebina saerTo suraTi?!

„mixeil mesxze” akreditirebul axalgazrdas

policielebma maisuris gaxda

mosTxoves.

mizezi _ maisurze saqarTvelos ruka

iyo datanili afxazeT-samaCabloianad...

sababi _ stumrebs pativi vceT da ar

gavaRizianoTo...

rogor unda gavaRiziano stumari,

romelic stumari sulac ar aris, Tundac

imitom, rom ar dagvipatiJebia?

axlac uefas kenWisyram mogvisaja

moskovelebi, Torem ise ager ukve or

saukeneze metia, sul daupatiJeblad

dadian.

da ras unda gaeRizianebina rusi? imas,

rom afxazeTi da samaCablo saqarTvelos

ganuyofel nawilad migvaCnia?

aba, ra warwerebiT davxvedrodiT? _

„ÊÐÛÌ ÂÀØ”?

xandaxan erTi metismetad gulmodgine

zemdgomis miTiTeba qvemdgoms iseTs

Caadeninebs, aseTi lamazi saRamos merec

ki gulSi xinji rom grCeba.

38 N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.


saqarTvelom jer evropa moigos

safrangeTSi gasamarTi 2023

wlis msoflios Tasis wlisyra gadaido.

is 30 noembers iyo dagegmili.

Tumca vinaidan Semodgomis

erTa Tasi 5 dekembers, xolo 4 eris

gaTamaSeba 12 dekembers sruldeba,

msoflio ragbim gadawyvita,

wilisyra 14 dekembers gamarTos.

am droisTvis reitingSi gundebi,

savaraudod, adgilebs gacvlian

da swored amis Semdeg Sedgeba

kalaTebi. SegaxsenebT, rom 2019

wlis msoflios Tasze saukeTeso

12-ma gundma ukve miiRo momdevno

msoflios Tasze asparezobis

ufleba. saqarTvelo maT Soris ar

aris. borjRalosnebs sagzurisTvis

brZola SesarCev turnirSi

mouwevT, romelic momavali wlis

TebervalSi daiwyeba.

wilisyra rom dRes tardebodes,

kalaTebSi gundebi ase ganawildebodnen.

kalaTa 1: samxreT afrika, axali

zelandia, inglisi, irlandia.

kalaTa 2: safrangeTi, uelsi,

avstralia, Sotlandia.

kalaTa 3: iaponia, argentina,

fiji, italia.

kalaTa 4: okeaneTi 1, amerika 1,

evropis gundi 1, afrika 1.

kalaTa 5: okeaneTi 2, amerika 2,

evropis gundi 2, repeSaJi 1.

mesame kalaTidan dawinaurebis

Sansi aqvs fijis. saamisod kunZulelebma

Sotlandias unda mougon

Semodgomis erTa Tasis jgufur

etapze. meoridan pirvel kalaTa-

Si dawinaurebis Sansi aqvT safrangeTsa

da avstralias. am ukanasknels

gansakuTrebiT gaumarTla,

radgan sanzaarma axalaxan gadawyvita,

rom oTxi eris gaTamaSeba

avstraliaSi gaimarTeba.

...maSin asaTianis goli gaixseneT

romis senatSi kanons ganixilavdnen,

romlis mixedviTac, ojaxis

wevris mkvleloba damamZimebel

garemoebad unda miCneuliyo. senatorTagan

erT-erTma protesti

gamoTqva, mas amaze saubaric ki

Seuracxmyofelad eCvena, roca

ciceronma upasuxa: „diax, msgavsi

danaSauli ar unda xdebodes, magram

mainc rom xdeba?”

asea, viciT, rom sporti da

politika unda gavmijnoT, magram

mainc ar imijneba.

17 seqtembers saqarTvelo sixarulma

moicva. moskovis „dinamos”

damarcxebiT gamowveuli bednierebis

Warbi dozis miuxedavad,

aman ekonomikaze ar imoqmeda da

guSindeli problemebic problemebad

datova. ra gamodis, _

sportis Zala mxolod droebiTia

da xelSesaxeb Sedegs ar gvaZlevs?

es patara qveynis kompleqsia da

infantiluri sazogadoebis saxe?

vnaxoT, ra xdeba sxvagan:

1938 wlis 12 marts mesame raixma

avstriis anSlusi (okupacia)

moaxdina. germanelebma am qveynis

nakrebi gaauqmes, fexburTelebs ki

maT gundSi TamaSi SesTavazes. sanam

es gadawyvetileba oficialur

saxes miiRebda, nacistebma propagandistuli

matCis gamarTva moisurves,

romelic ukeTess ver gamoavlenda

da Sexvedra ugolod

dasruldeboda.

pirvel taimSi goli marTlac

ar gavida. maTias sindelars germaniis

karis asaRebad santimetrebi

daaklda. xalxi fiqrobda, rom

es gegmis nawili iyo, didma avstrielma

metoqis karis aReba ver

gabeda. meore taimSi gaitana da

nacisti maRalCinosnebiT gadaWedili

loJis win icekva.

xom warmogidgeniaT, es avstriaSi

rogor gauxardaT.

1939 wels, megobar gogonasTan

erTad, sindelari saxlSi mkvdari

ipoves. aravis sjera, rom is bunebrivi

sikvdiliT gardaicvala.

im TamaSis mogebis miuxedavad,

avstriam okupacias maSinve ver

daaRwia Tavi da mdgomareoba arc

ekonomikurad gaumjobesebula.

qaRaldis kaci _ rogorc sindelars

eZaxian, am sportis sindiss

warmoadgens. fexburTelic didi

iyo, is XX saukunis saukeTesoTa

N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.

Soris 22-e adgils ikavebs.

asea, roca sxva qveyana omSi

gigebs, maTTan nebismieri warmateba

gaxarebs. gancda gaqvs, rom

samxedro SeiaraRebuli konfliqti

raodenobis gamo waage, xarisxi

ki Sens mxarezea. fexburTi amis

damtkicebis erT-erTi saukeTeso

saSualebaa, moedanze Tanabari

raodenobiT gamodixar da igebs is,

vinc ukeT iTamaSebs. asea, magram

qarTvelebs, iqneb, zRvargadasuli

sixaruli gvaxasiaTebs?

folklendis kunZulebis omidan

4 wlis Semdeg, 1986 wlis 12

ivniss, msoflio Cempionatis 1/4

finalSi, erTmaneTs inglisi da

argentina Sexvdnen. kunZulebisTvis

omi inglisma 100:0 moigo,

fexburTSi ki...

komentatoris emocia yvelafers

ambobs. is RmerTs madlobas

uxdis, rom fexburTi da maradona

arsebobs.

fexburTs TiTqos qveynis cxovrebis

pulsze xeli udevs. is

SeiZleba protesti iyos, SeiZleba

Zala, romelic mosaxleobas TviTrwmenas

daubrunebs da aCvenebs,

rom mteri rac ar unda Zlevamosili

Candes, misi damarcxeba Sesa-

Zlebelia.

fexburTs Serigebac SeuZlia.

SesaZloa, adamians dasanaxad ver

itande, magram roca ici, 17 seqtembris

warmateba masac SensaviT

gauxarda, ukve emociuri kavSiri

iqmneba.

Cven gverdiT gazrdilma da

Cvens enaze molaparake biWebma

okupantebis gundi daamarcxes.

SesaZloa, gadaWarbebiTac, magram

rogor ar gagvixardes?

es sixaruli droebiTi ar aris.

Tu ar gjeraT, malxaz asaTianis

goli gaixseneT...

korti kortis winaaRmdeg

avstraliis Ria pirvelobaze

margaret kortis saxelobis kortze

bolo aTwleulebis saCogburTo

elitis yvela warmomad-

genels uCognavia.

am kortze TamaSi yovelTvis

statusis xazgasmas niSnavda,

axla ki igive elitis warmomad-

genlebi kortis gadanaTvlas

iTxoven.

saqme is aris, rom 78 wlis marmargaret

korti: 15-wliani karigaret

kortma ramdenime komeneris

manZilze (1960-1975 ww.) moitari

gaakeTa saojaxo Rirebulego

didi muzaradis 62(!) turnibebTan

dakavSirebiT, rac homori.

aqedan 24 erTeulTa Tanrig-

fobiasa da umciresobebis ufle-

Si (absoluturi rekordi), 19

bebis darRvevaSi CauTvales.

wyvilTa TanrigSi da 19 Sereul

bolo, vinc kortisTvis saxelis

wyvilebSi (esec absoluturi re-

gadarqmevas miemxro, msoflios

kordi).

eqspirveli Cogani, britaneli

da am yvelafris fonze, ra

endi mari gaxlavT.

daaSava aseTi margaret kortma?

„avstraliis Ria pirvelobisas

mxolod sakuTari azri gamo-

margaret korts mTeli ceremo-

Tqva imis Sesaxeb, rom ojaxi qal-

nia miuZRvnes. sazogadoebam da

isa da mamakacis erTobaa da mis-

moTamaSeTa nawilma es arcTu

Tvis tradiciuli Rirebulebebi

Tbilad miiRo. bolo wlebSi mis-

mniSvnelovania.

ma gancxadebebma bevri adamiani

saqmes iseTi piri uCans, gaisad

gaanawyena. vfiqrob, unda ganix-

ukve avstraliis Riaze margaret

ilon kortisTvis saxelis gada-

kortis saxelobis korti endi

rqmevis sakiTxi”, _ Tqva marim.

marisa da mis Tanamoazreebs sax-

arada, SegaxsenebT, vin aris

elSecvlili daxvdeba.

armanma Woki aswia, bubka gaswia

arman diuplantisi jer mxdiuplantisi

TebervalSi, Sotolod

20 wlisaa, magram ukve mZ-

landiaSi 6,18 metrzec gadaxta,

leosnobis legendad iqca. romSi

oRond darbazSi. es ori rekordi

mimdinare „briliantis ligis”

erTmaneTisgan damoukideblad

etapze Svedma WokiT mxtomelma

iTvleba, radgan Ria stadionze

6,15 metri simaRle daZlia da

xtoma ufro rTulia _ qars an

kidev erTi legendis, ukraineli

wvimas seriozuli koreqtivebi

sergei bubkas Sedegi 1 santime-

Seaqvs. ase rom, axla 20 wlis Sve-

triT gaaumjobesa.

di biWi sportis am saxeobis erT-

bubkas rekordic italiaSi,

pirovnuli mefea. imis gaTval-

oRond sestrierSi damyarda 1994

iswinebiT, rogor uproblemod

wels da ager ukve 26 welia, ver-

gadaevlo Tamasas, diuplantisi,

avin gaekara.

veWvobT, Tavs kidev Segvaxsenebs.

39

CIAN MAGENTA YALLOW BLACK

kviris horoskopi

verZi

am periodSi riskze wasvla ar Rirs. Sei-

Zleba rTul viTarebaSi aRmoCndeT, didi

raodenobiT Tanxa dakargoT da axloblebTan

iCxuboT. es kvira verZebs

lamazi romanis sasiamovno gagrZelebas

hpirdeba, urTierTobebis gaoficialurebis

perspeqtiviT. frTxilad iyaviT, ar

gacivdeT.

kuro

cxovrebis yvela sferoSi mniSvnelovania

gamoiCinoT iniciativa da Seupovroba.

samsaxurSi mogiwevT daamtkicoT Tqveeni

maRali profesionalizmi, siyvarulSi –

erTguleba. ecadeT Tavidan aiciloT

emociuri datvirTva, is uaryofiTad moqmedebs

nervul sistemaze.

tyupi

es kvira TqvenTvis sakmaod warmatebuli

iqneba, SegiZliaT icxovroT Tqveni siamovnebisTvis.

mosalodnelia bevri saintereso

nacnoboba da sxva sasiamovno movlenebi,

kargi dasvenebis CaTvliT. SesaZloa

Soreul mogzaurobaSi wasvla mogiwioT.

kirCxibi

es periodi sakmaod gavlenian adamianebTan

megobrobas gCuqniT. isini, savaraudod,

xels Seuwyoben Tqvens karierul

winsvlas. martoxelebi partniors eZeben,

magram nebismier urTierTobasze nu da-

TanxmdebiT.

lomi

gamoricxuli ar aris SeuZlod yofna

da gacieba. SesaZloa cudi ganwyoba dageufloT

materialuri sirTuleebis gamo.

mogiwevT daxmarebisTvis megobrebs mimarToT.

kviris bolos Semosavlis miRebis

axali SesaZleblobebi gamogiCndebaT.

qalwuli

SesaZlebelia moulodneli cvlilebebi.

bevri moaxerxebs samsaxuris Sovnas, romelic

did dros moiTxovs, magram sakmaod ma-

Ral Semosavals iZleva. ojaxur cxovreba-

Si saWiroa daTmobaze wasvla. Tavis tkivili

Tu SegawuxebT, garemo SeicvaleT.

saswori

kviris Sua ricxvebSi SesaZloa didi

xarjebi gqondeT, Tumca daxarjuli Tanxa

swrafad dagibrundebaT. SesaZlebelia

ojaxuri konfliqtebi partnioris uyuradRebobis

gamo. ecadeT Tvalebi ar gadageZaboT

da ar gadadoT viziti okulist-

Tan.


yovelkvireuli gazeTi gamodis kviraSi

erTxel, samSabaTobiT da vrceldeba

saqarTvelos mTel teritoriaze

yovelkvireuli

gamodis samSabaTobiT fasi 2 lari

pirveli gverdi:

1 sm 2 _ 15 lari, maqsimaluri SekveTa 300 sm 2 ;

meore-mesame gverdebi:

1 sm 2 _ 3 lari;

Sida gverdebi:

1 sm 2 _ 1 lari;

bolos wina gverdi:

1sm 2 _2 lari;

bolo gverdi:

1sm 2 _ 3 lari,

maqsimaluri SekveTa _ mTeli gverdi;

mTliani gverdis saerTo farTobia _

1000 sm 2;

reklama CanarTis saxiT:

A3 3 formatis erT nomerSi ganTavseba _ 500 lari;

A4 4 formatis erT nomerSi ganTavseba _ 300 lari;

mis.: gudauris 7; 599 19 19 10 (Savlego cixelaSvili)

kviris horoskopi

morieli

Tqveni amocanaa – axal garemoebebs

swrafad SeeguoT. daeyrdeniT intuicias,

radgan xangrZlivi fiqris gamo arsebobs

Sansebis dakargvis riski. finansebTan

dakavSirebiT yvelaferi rigzea. martoxelebs

urTierTobebi SeiZleba ar aewyoT.

SesaZlebelia ojaxuri konfliqtebic.

mSvildosani

samuSaos pirobebi da moculoba mudmivad

Seicvleba, SesaZlebelia xelmZRvanelobasTan

konfliqti mogixdeT. martoxelebi

riskaven, arakeTisindisier adamians

daukavSirdnen, romelic merkantilur

miznebs isaxavs. daqorwinebulebs

urTierTobis simtkiceSi gamocda elodebaT.

Txis rqa

am kviraSi SesaZlebelia Semosavlis

gazrda. win bevri mogzaurobaa, rac axlobel

adamianebSi ukmayofilebas gamoiwvevs.

SegiZliaT didi SenaZenebi gaakeToT: sayofacxovrebo

teqnika, aveji, manqana. sifrTxile

gmarTebT saWesTan yofnis dros.

merwyuli

ganixileT saerTo gegmebi Tqvens partniorTan.

am kviraSi kargia ifiqroT er-

Tobliv Sesyidvebze, SeadginoT marSruti

samomavlo mogzaurobisTvis, dakavdeT

saxlis keTilmowyobiT da siaxleebis ZiebiT.

Tqveni kani gansakuTrebul movlas

moiTxovs.

Tevzebi

samuSaoze dagrovili problemebis gadasaWrelad

kolegebs mimarTeT. moulodneli

SeTavazeba SeiZleba sasargeblo aRmoCndes,

magram xelidan ar gauSvaT Sansi,

yvelas rCevas nu daekiTxebiT. Tqveni azrebi,

ZiriTadad, axal romans daeTmoba.

1 aSS dolari

3.2295

1 evro

3.8050

1 girvanqa sterlingi

4.1502

100 rusuli rubli

4.2349

amindi

samSabaTi

oTxSabaTi

xuTSabaTi

paraskevi

SabaTi

kvira

orSabaTi

Tbilisi

21-23 0

22-24 0

24-26 0

23-25 0

20-22 0

22-24 0

18-20 0

quTaisi

26-28 0

29-31 0

30-32 0

29-31 0

26-28 0

25-27 0

26-27 0

baTumi

25-27 0

26-28 0

27-30 0

25-27 0

24-26 0

25-28 0

26-28 0

zugdidi

27-29 0

28-30 0

29-31 0

28-30 0

25-27 0

27-29 0

28-30 0

gori

21-23 0

22-24 0

23-25 0

22-24 0

18-20 0

19-21 0

17-19 0

Telavi

24-26 0

25-27 0

27-30 0

25-27 0

23-25 0

24-26 0

20-23 0

foTi

27-29 0

26-28 0

25-27 0

26-28 0

27-30 0

26-28 0

25-27 0

40

saredaqcio kolegia

yvela ufleba daculia;

`qronika+~-Si gamoqveynebuli

masalebis nebismieri saxiT

gamoyeneba da gavrceleba

redaqciasTan SeuTanxmeblad

akrZalulia!

gazeTSi R niSniT gamoqveynebul

masalebs aqvT sareklamo

xasiaTi; maTSi gamoxatuli pozicia

SeiZleba ar daemTxves

redaqciis Sexedulebas.

mTavari redaqtori eliso kilaZe (599 17 12 12)

marsagiSvili Sorena 599 92 16 22

rostiaSvili Tamar 577 10 07 06

SatakiSvili rezo 597 94 42 50

mosiaSvili maka 599 97 25 55

injgia nene 591 71 39 98

sakaruli giorgi 555 42 42 81

qemokliZe levan 593 16 01 40

mamulaZe xviCa 598 41 12 26

deviZe daviT

stilisti rusudan quTaTelaZe;

redaqciis misamarTi:

Tbilisi, gudauris N3,

pirveli sarTuli, bina 4;

tel.: 294 69 77;

sareklamo ganyofileba,

gavrcelebis samsaxuri

Savlego cixelaSvili 599 19 19 10

gazeTi ibeWdeba stambaSi `tori~

ISSN 2346-8025

294 69 77;

qronikaqronika@gmail.com

40 N21 (323) 22.09-28.09.2020 w.

qronika+323

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