qronika+326

CIAN MAGENTA YALLOW BLACK

294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com

yovelkvireuli gazeTi

gamodis samSabaTobiT N24 (326) 13.10

10.20

.2020

fasi 2 lari

gv. 10

rostom

CxeiZe:

`gadamwyveti

Jami dgeba

kriminaluri

xelisuflebis

Camosacileblad!~

kaxa miqaia:

`soso

gogaSvili

ivaniSvils

kompromatebis

gamoqveynebiT

daemuqra~

gv. 14

manana jebaSvili:

`130 000

vaqcina

Zalian

cotaa da im

Sedegs ver

moitans~

gv. 22

`melaSvili da iliCova

sindisis patimrebi arian!~

gv. 2

gv. 2

giorgi mSvenieraZe:

`xelisuflebis Seqmnili

miTi male gabaTildeba!~ gv. 2

col-qmar mamacaSvilebis

kaxuri qoneba

gv. 20

nino goguaZe:

`melaSvili

da

iliCova

politikuri

TamaSebisTvis

daakaves!~

N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.

paata daviTaia:

`putini faSianians

maxes umzadebs da

mis absolutur

kontrolqveS ayvanas

an Canacvlebas

cdilobs~

gv. 16 gv. 12 gv. 8

Tamar CxeiZe:

`ruseTis

zurgi rom ara,

`qarTuli

ocneba~

arCevnebamdec

CamoiSleboda~

1


`melaSvili da iliCova

„kartografebis saqme” poli-

nene injgia

tikuri dRis wesrigis mTavari

591 71 39 98

Temaa. sazogadoebis didi nawili

da opoziciuri speqtri fiqrobs,

rom am Temas xelisufleba winasaarCevnod iyenebs.

rac Seexeba saqmis samarTlebriv mxares, saqarTvelos ter-

itoriebis sawinaaRmdegod Cadenili qmedebis braldebiT

daakaves saqarTvelo-azerbaijanis delimitacia-demarkaciis

komisiis ori yofili wevri _ iveri melaSvili da natalia

iliCova. prokuraturis braldebiT, komisiis yofili wevrebi

sazRvrebis delimitaciis procesSi 1970-80-ian wlebSi

gamocemul rukebze datanili sazRvris xazebiT xelmZRv-

anelobdnen, rac Cveni qveynis istoriul sazRvars arsebiTad

ewinaaRmdegeba. iveri melaSvilma braldebebis pasuxad

araerTxel gaimeora, rom im rukas, romelic, prokuraturis

mtkicebiT, komisias unda gamoeyenebina, xarvezebi aqvs da

samuSaod ver gamodgeboda. „arsad gaqcevas ar vapireb, arc

mimalvas. verc gaqceuli, verc aq myofi amisTana braldebiT

ver vicocxleb”, _ es kartograf iveri melaSvilis sityvebia.

adamianebis nawili Riad da daufaravad ambobs, rom kartografebis

moRalateebad gamocxadeba winasaarCevnod xelisuflebis

politikuri TamaSis nawilia. melaSvilis inter-

esebs „saqarTvelos demokratiuli iniciativa” (GDI) icavs.

ra mtkicebulebebia saqmis masalebSi?

konkretulad ras edav-

ebian melaSvils? ra molodini

aqvT saapelacio sasamarTloSi

Setanil saCivarTan dakavSire-

biT?

aRniSnuli Temis Sesaxeb „qronika+~

„saqarTvelos demokratiu-

li iniciativis” (GDI) xelmZRv-

anel, iurist giorgi mSvenieraZ-

es esaubra:

_ pirveli instanciis mosamar-

Tlem iveri melaSvilisa da natalia

iliCovas winaaRmdeg aRkve-

Tis RonisZiebis umkacresi for-

ma gamoiyena. rogoria Tqveni

pozicia mosamarTlis gan-

CinebasTan dakavSirebiT?

_ saqarTvelos konstitucia

iseve, rogorc adamianebis uflebaTa

da ZiriTad TavisuflebaTa

Sesaxeb evropuli konvencia, sasamarTlo

xelisuflebas avaldebulebs,

piris mimarT aRkveTis Ronis-

Ziebad patimroba, rogorc ukiduresi

zoma, gamoiyenos mxolod im

SemTxvevaSi, Tuki, erTi mxriv, cxadad

aris dadgenili, rom saxezea

sakmarisi mtkicebulebebi, rom pirma

danaSauli Caidina, rasac dasabuTebuli

varaudis standarti

hqvia da, meore mxriv, unda arsebobdes

aseve dasabuTebuli varaudis

standartiT mocemuloba, rom piri

gaanadurebs mtkicebulebebs an

zemoqmedebas moaxdens mowmeebze,

miemaleba gamoZiebas an ar gamocxaddeba

sasamarTloSi an samar-

Taldamcvel organoebSi an Caidens

axal danaSauls, _ Tu es safrTxeebi

arsebobs saqmeze, amis

Sesaxeb prokuraturam mtkicebulebebi

unda warmoadginos da

mas sasamarTlo daeyrdnos. mxolod

is, rom mZime danaSaulia da

adamiani miimaleba, es ar aris sakmarisi.

mxolod im SemTxvevaSi

iqneboda sakmarisi, Tu batoni

iveri viRacaze axdenda gavlenas an

eubneboda, rom Cveneba ar mieca an

hqonda amis mcdeloba an bileTebi

iyida sadme wasasvelad da mimalvas

cdilobda an ar cxaddeboda

sagamoZiebo organoSi, _ aseTi

konkretuli mtkicebuleba unda

moutanos gamoZiebam da prokuraturam

sasamarTlos, raTa sasamarTlo

darwmundes, rom mimalvis

safrTxe arsebobs da mxolod am

SemTxvevaSi unda gamoiyenos patimroba,

isic, Tuki sxva rame RonisZieba

ver aRmofxvrida am safrTx-

es. aseTi ram ar arsebobs am saqme-

Si, aranair mtkicebulebas ar

uTiTebs sasamarTlo, is mxolod

beletristikobs. CamoTvlis im mtkicebulebebs,

rac saqmeSia, maT

Soris, Zalian bevri Cveni gamamarTlebeli

mtkicebulebaa da, saboloo

jamSi, am mtkicebulebebze

dayrdnobiT akeTebs daskvnas, rom

mimalvis safrTxe arsebobs. amitom

es ganCineba calsaxad damrRvevia

adamianis ZiriTadi uflebebisa

da Tavisuflebebis, romelic

daculia, rogorc konstituciiT

piradi Tavisuflebis xelSeuxeblobis

uflebiT, aseve evropuli

konvenciis me-5 muxliT. CemTvis

ucnauri iyo Tavad is, rom sasamarTlom

mtkicebulebebi, rac

Camowera da Tqva, rom es sakmarisia

dasabuTebuli varaudisTvis,

rogor waikiTxa 2-3 saaTSi?! Cven 4

dRea vsxedvarT da jer mxolod

me-6 toms vasrulebT. am saqmis wakiTxva

ase ioli ar aris da bevr

specifikur detalSi CaRrmavebas

saWiroebs, Tumca sasamarTlom es

moaxerxa, rac, vimeoreb, Zalian

ucnauria.

_ ra mtkicebulebebia saqmis

masalebSi da Tqven axseneT gamama-

rTlebeli mtkicebulebebi. amis

Sesaxebac gviTxariT, ra gamama-

rTlebeli mtkicebulebebi devs

saqmeSi?

_ mtkicebulebebis saxeobebi

SemiZlia giTxraT: es aris, pirvel

rigSi, mowmeTa Cvenebebi, aseve warmodgenilia

garkveuli kartografiuli

masala. ZiriTadad, es

aris 1938 wlis rukis amonaxazi

1:500 000 masStabiT, asevea iufimis

sistemiT gakeTebuli 1: 200 000

masStabis ruka, romelic, rogorc

gamoZiebis masalebidan Cans, batonma

xidaSelma Camoutana Cvens

Tavdacvis saministros. saqmis

masalebSia momdevno wlebis rukebi,

romelic gamoiyeneboda

sazRvris SeTanxmebis procesSi, 1:

50 000, xolo meore 1: 100 000 mas-

Stabisaa, TariRdeba 1942 wliTa da

1970-80 wlebiT. saqmis masalebSia

eqspertizis ori daskvna, romelic

nawilobriv pasuxs scems gamo-

Ziebis mier dasmul kiTxvebs, radgan

raRac kiTxvebze pasuxis gacema

ver xerxdeba. danarCeni aris

saproceso dokumentebi: CxrekaamoReba,

brZaneba informaciis

gamoTxovaze da a. S. rac Seexeba

gamamarTlebel mtkicebulebebs,

sazRvari erTxel da samudamod,

saqarTvelo-azerbaijan-somxeTs

Soris, dadgeniliyo. am sazRvrebis

dadgenas sabWoTa konstituciiT

esaWiroeboda qveynis umaRlesi

organoebis dadastureba, Sesabamisad,

es Sexvedra gaimarTa 1938

wels, Sedga Sesabamisi oqmi. dokumenti,

dRevandeli gagebiT rom

vTqvaT, ratificirebulia, anu

damtkicebulia saqarTvelosa da

azerbaijanis mTavrobebis mier. am

Sexvedraze aseve damtkicda ruka

1:500 000 masStabiT. cxadia, misi

garCevadoba Zalian cudia, radgan

axlo ar aris. amave dokumentSi

aris aseve sami piroba:

1. „saqarTvelos sabWoTa socialistur

respublikasTan, azerbaijanis

sabWoTa socialisturi

respublikis sazRvris SeuTanxmebloba,

didi mTis CrdiloeTiT,

saqarTvelos centraluri aRmasrulebeli

komitetis monacemebiT,

sworad aRmoCnda datanili. es dasturdeba

azerbaijanis ssr-is centraluri

aRmasrulebeli komitetisa

da miwaTmoqmedebis saxalxo

komisariatis monacemebiT. sazRvari

mdinare alazanze gadis”, _ anu

sazRvari mdinare alazanze gavida;

2. „danarCeni mciredi Seu-

Tanxmebloba saqarTvelosa da azerbaijanis

sazRvrebSi, romlebic

datanilia saqarTvelosa da azerbaijanis

centraluri aRmasrulebeli

komitetebis monacemebis

mixedviT, ZiriTadad 1:500 000 mas-

Stabis rukis sxvadasxva amonabeWdisTvis,

gansxvavebuli msxvilmas-

Stabiani masalis gamoyenebisas

maTi arazusti grafikuli datanis,

aseve amonabeWdebis deformaciis

Sedegs warmoadgens”, _ anu rukaze

es acdenebi imitom ki ar aris, rom

mizanmimarTulia, aramed es acdenebi

gamoiwvia amobeWdvamo;

3. „masalebis ganxilvis Sedegad

TaTbirze azerbaijanis centraluri

aRmasrulebeli komiteti saqarTvelos

dasamtkiceblad warudgens

1:500 000 masStabis damowmebul

rukas, sazRvrebis moxazulobaSi

masze arsebuli grafikuli

teqnikuri uzustobebis aRmofxvris

gaTvaliswinebiT”, _ e. i. ra

uzustobebic iyo, is aRmoifxvra.

es ruka daamtkices da igi aris is

bolo dokumenti, romelic orive

mxaris saxelmwifo umaRles organoebs

aqvT damtkicebuli. 1942

wels iyo mcdeloba rukaSi cvlilebebis

Setanisa; 1945 wels kvlav

gadawyda sazRvrebis Secvla,

oRond, rogorc saxelmwifos,

gagvimarTla, rom Cvenma xelisuflebam

60-ian wlebSi es ki daamtgiorgi

mSvenieraZe:

`xelisuflebis

Seqmnili

miTi male

gabaTildeba!~

rodesac am masalebs gavecaniT,

aRmoCnda, rom bevri mtkicebulebaa,

romelic calsaxad amtkicebs:

batoni iveri da qalbatoni natalia

udanaSauloni arian. isini delimitacia-demarkaciis

mTeli am

procesis manZilze, TiToeul Sexvedraze

maqsimalurad ibrZodnen,

rom saqarTvelos meti teritoria

darCenoda. am SeTanxmebis Sedegad

da maTi damsaxurebiT, daaxloebiT,

minimum, ramdenime aseuli heqtari

saqarTvelom ixeira.

_ konkretulad rom gviTxraT

im mtkicebulebebis Sesaxeb,

romelic iveri melaSvilisa da

natalia iliCovas udanaSaulobas

amtkicebs...

_ es aris, ZiriTadad, mowmeTa,

komisiis moqmedi da yofili wevrebis,

maT Soris, komisiis Tavmjdomaris

Cvenebebi, romlebic am

procesis Sesaxeb hyvebian. aRsani-

Snavia isic, rom eqspertizis

daskvnebSic kiTxvebi calmxrivadaa

dasmuli. magaliTad, komisias

ekiTxebian, _ ramdeni heqtari miwa

dakarga saqarTvelos xelisuflebam

imis gamo, rom gamoiyena 1938

wlis xazi da ar gamoiyena 1936

wlis? razedac pasuxoben imas, rac

darCa azerbaijanis Semadgenloba-

Si. Cvens SemadgenlobaSi ra darCa,

imas ar eubnebian. aqedan gamomdinare,

gamoZieba obieqtur gamo-

Ziebas ki ar atarebs, aramed cdilobs

warmoaCinos, ra davkargeT

da ra miviReT amaze aqcents ar

akeTebs. Tan am nawilSi 200-aTasiani

masStabis rukas ver gamoviyenebdiT

da romc gamogveyenebina,

rogorc batoni iveri ambobs,

ufro mets davkargavdiT, vidre

miviRebdiT. xazs vusvam: gamoZiebam

mxolod imaze dasva kiTxva, Tu ra

davkargeT da ar ukiTxavs, Tu ra

miviReT.

_ Tqven aRniSneT, rom komisia

200-aTasiani masStabis mqone ru-

kas ver gamoiyenebda, ratom?

_ amas istoriuli konteqsti

aqvs. roca erTi saxelmwifo meoresTan

iwyebs sazRvris delimitacia-demarkaciaze

muSaobas, adgenen

sad gadis sazRvari da Semdeg

iq niSnebs akeTeben. Cven da

azerbaijans, rogorc saxelmwifoebs,

garkveul sakiTxebze warsulSic

gvqonda problemebi,

romelic modis damoukideblobis

mopovebis periodidan, 1918 wels

vgulisxmob: im drosac iyo garkveuli

pretenziebi azerbaijanis saxelmwifos

mxridan wamoyenebuli

Cvens saxelmwifos teritoriasTan

mimarTebiT. maSin miiRes pasuxi,

rom Cven am pretenziebs ar ganvixilavdiT.

Tumca, mogvianebiT, roca

saqarTvelosa da azerbaijanis

okupacia ganxorcielda sabWoTa

ruseTis mier, azerbaijanis sabWo-

Ta xelisuflebam moiTxova am sakiTxis

kvlav gaaqtiureba, rasac

dasTanxmda saqarTvelos sabWoTa

xelisufleba, _ maSin zaqaTalis

olqi gadaeca azerbaijans. aseve

saubari iyo sxva miwebzec, Tumca

sazRvris SeTanxmeba detalurad

veRar moxerxda. aris daviTgarejasTan

dakavSirebiT filipe maxaraZis

moxseneba, sadac igi am sakiTxze

msjelobs, es saqmis masaleb-

Si ar devs. ubralod, minda, rom

mkiTxvelma icodes. sabolood, es

daZabuloba rom aRmofxvriliyo,

muSaoba daiwyes imisTvis, rom es

`minda, xalxs kargad esmodes, rom

daviTgareja im periodSic iyo sadavo. 20-iani

wlebidan, rac sabWoTa kavSirma waiRo

saqarTvelo, es sakiTxi maleve gaxda sadavo

da dRemde asea. 1938 wlis rukiT daviTgarejis

monasteri Cvenkenaa da danarCeni sadavo

monastrebi - azerbaijanis terioriaze~

2 N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.


sindisis patimrebi arian!~

kica, Tumca azerbaijanma ar daamtkica,

Torem am rukiT gacilebiT

mets davkargavdiT. amitom radgan

azerbaijans, Tavis droze, es ruka

damtkicebuli ar hqonda, Cvenma xelisuflebam

1994 wels, roca am sakiTxze

daiwyo muSaoba, bevri riski

ganixila, moemzada da roca 1996

wlis ivnisSi Sexvedraze wardga,

azerbaijanis xelisuflebas Seu-

Tanxmda, rom sazRvrebis delimitaciis

procesSi ixelmZRvanelebdnen

1938 wlis SeTanxmebiTa da

rukiT. amas xeli moewera ministrebis

moadgileebis doneze da sazRvris

delimitaciac daiwyo am

rukiT. minda, xalxs kargad esmodes,

rom daviTgareja im period-

Sic iyo sadavo. 20-iani wlebidan,

rac sabWoTa kavSirma waiRo saqarTvelo,

es sakiTxi maleve gaxda

sadavo da dRemde asea. 1938 wlis

rukiT daviTgarejis monasteri

Cvenkenaa da danarCeni sadavo monastrebi

_ azerbaijanis terioriaze.

es sakiTxi ase Cans: 1994 wlis

sagareo saqmeTa saministroSi gamarTuli

TaTbirebis oqmebSi am sakiTxs

ase aRwers saqarTvelos xelisufleba

SevardnaZis drosac,

saakaSvilis drosac da ase agzavnis

Sida mimowerebSi werilebs. es

sakiTxi ar aris viRacis mier mogonili,

piriqiT _ saqarTvelos xelisuflebebi

yvela gziT cdilobdnen,

rom meti dagvrCenoda, maT

Soris, daviTgarejasTan mimarTebiT.

SevardnaZisa da saakaSvilis

xelisuflebebis ramdenime werilia,

gacvlas sTavazobdnen, rom mni-

Svnelovan strategiul wertilebs

miscemdnen da maT unda daeTmoT

es. azerbaijanis mxridan yovelTvis

uari iyo. amitom is monakveTebi,

romlebic teqnikurad ver

Tanxmdeboda, rCeboda Ria.

_ konkretulad, ras edavebian

iveri melaSvils?

_ baton iveris edavebian, 1938

wlis rukiT ki ar unda gvexelmZRvanela,

aramed 1938 wlis rukis

qveviT kidev arsebobda sxva rukebi,

1932-33 wlebis rukebi, romli-

Tac daviTgarejis monastris ufro

meti nawili aRmoCndeboda saqarTvelos

teritoriaze da swored

es unda gamogeyenebinaTo. amas

ori ramis gamo ver izamdnen: pirveli

mizezia is, rom ruka, romelic

Sedgenelia 1932-33 wlebSi, aris

„niu fingis” proeqciiT gakeTebuli.

am tipis rukebs axasiaTebs didi

cdomilebebi, maTze ar aris

koordinatTa sistema datanili da

amitom didi acdenebia; 2. radgan

`rodesac am masalebs gavecaniT, aRmoCnda, rom bevri mtkicebulebaa,

romelic calsaxad amtkicebs: batoni iveri da qalbatoni natalia

udanaSauloni arian. isini delimitacia-demarkaciis mTeli am procesis

manZilze, TiToeul Sexvedraze maqsimalurad ibrZodnen, rom saqarTvelos

meti teritoria darCenoda. am SeTanxmebis Sedegad da maTi damsaxurebiT,

daaxloebiT, minimum, ramdenime aseuli heqtari saqarTvelom ixeira~

is ruka ar Seesabameba ra 1938 wlis

rukas, meore mxare gansaxilvelad,

ubralod, ar miiRebs, _ Tuki 1938

wlis ruka ukeTess mdgomareobaSi

ayenebs meore mxares da am xelmoweril

1938 wlis rukad viyenebT,

ratom dasTanxmdeba sxva rukis

gamoyenebas?! azerbaijanis mxare,

Tavis droze, gvTxovda rukaTa

ganmartebis etapze gamoyenebuli

yofiliyo 1927 da 1929 wlis oqmebi.

minimum, ori oqmia saqarTvelosa

da azerbaijanis sabWoTa xelisuflebebis

TaTbirebisa saRvrebTan

dakavSirebiT. qarTulma mxarem

uaryo es da Tqva, _ ar aqvs

mniSvneloba, iq ra iyo, 1938 wlis

ruka damtkicebulia da imas veRar

SevcvliTo. anu Cven, Tavis

droze, uari vuTxariT. Tu axla

1938 wels CavcdebiT qveviT da

mainc daviwyebT raRacebis gamoyenebaze

saubars, es axal SesaZleblobebs

gaxsnis meore mxarisTvisac,

rom koordinatebi gamoiyenon

1927 da 1929 wlis Sexvedrebis

TaTbiris oqmebidan. es sakiTxic

asaxulia mtkicebulebebSi. is,

rom 1:200 000 masStabis rukas vinme

malavda, es aris tyuili, aravin malavda.

1996 wels, rodesac batonma

iverim delimitaciis procesSi

muSaoba daiwyo, maSin igi komisiis

rigiTi wevri iyo, komisiaSi Sediodnen

geodeziisa da kartografiis

departamentis TanamSromlebi da

maT daevalaT yvela saxis rukis

moZebna da komisiisTvis misi warmodgena.

swored am dros gamoCnda

qalbatoni natalia iliCova, romelic

sazRvris dacvis policiaSi

muSaobda da man Tqva, rom mas aqvs

1:200 000 masStabis ruka, man moutana

es ruka komisias, ki ar damala,

piriqiT, moitana. imsjeles am

rukaze da Seusabamobebisa da uvargisobis

gamo uari iTqva am rukis

gamoyenebaze, SedarebiT axali

rukebis dasamzadeblad. es ruka

daubrunda qalbaton natalias da

samsaxurSi hqonda Senaxuli. dakiTxvis

dros qalbatonma nataliam

Tqva, rom es ruka mas aqvs. wavida

prokuratura, Caatara Cxreka da

amoiRo es ruka, damaluli araferi

yofila, saxelmwifo uwyebaSi

arsebobda es ruka, romelic ar

iyo gamosadegi. es ruka hqondaT

azerbaijanelebsac, ubralod, Tavadac

ar iyeneben. metic: am bolo

periodSi xelisuflebam gadawyvita,

mainc wasuliyo am rukiT azerbaijanTan

Sexvedraze. gauSves

batoni xorbalaZe, romlis Tanam-

Sromlebic telekompania „imedze”

amtkicebdnen, rom am rukiT sazRvrebi

Seicvleba da qveyanas daubrundeba

daviTgareja, romelic mar-

Tla yvelas gvinda, rom moxdes,

magram SeuZlebelia am gziT es gakeTdes.

Cavidnen aRniSnuli rukiT

azerbaijanSi da gamouSves ukan,

radgan es ruka ar gamoiyeneba. batoni

iveris pozicia iyo is, rom

unda yofiliyvnen maqsimalurad

profesionalebi, argumentirebulebi,

man sakuTar profesiul

reputaciasa da Rirsebas ar gadaabija,

araprofesionaluri da bodiSi

am sityvisTvis, vireSmakuli

poziciiT ar misula meore mxaresTan.

batonma iverim Tavisi saqme

kargad icoda da am saqmes akeTebda

patiosnad. ai, amitom daisaja.

viRacebs hgoniaT, rom azerbaijanul

mxares 1:200 000 masStabis rukiT

vireSmakulad moatyueben.

_ ra molodini gaqvT saapelacioSi

Setanil saCivarTan dakav-

SirebiT?

_ saapelacioSi SevitaneT saCivari

aRkveTis RonisZiebasTan dakavSirebiT.

gavasaCivreT ganCineba,

romliTac patimroba Seefarada

baton iveris. ratom gavasaCivreT,

amaze ukve visaubreT. Zalian gvinda

davijeroT, rom sasamarTlo am

argumentebs gaiTvaliswinebs, es

ar aris Cveni axireba, es aris samarTlebrivi

pozicia. konstitucia

da evropuli konvecia adamianebis

uflebebis Sesaxeb avaldebulebs

maT, es pozicia gaiTvaliswinon.

ubralod, Cvens sasamarTlos

aqvs fundamenturi problemebi,

Tqven es mogexsenebaT da am

problemebis pirobebSi, ramdenad

izams sasamarTlo amas, ar viciT.

_ xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebi

iveri melaSvilisa da natalia

iliCovas misamarTiT sajar-

od acxadeben, rom es adamianebi

moRalateebi arian. raze metyv-

elebs es faqti?

_ pirvel rigSi, siamayiT minda

vTqva, rom sajaro samsaxurSi arian

moxeleebi, romelTa Cvenebebic

aris ara am koniunqturas ayolili,

aramed profesionaluri.

maTi saxelebi da gvarebi procesebTan

erTad gasajarovdeba. es

adamianebi iziareben im pozicias,

romelic baton iversa da qalbaton

natalias hqondaT. rukis sakiTxi

ramdenjerme iyo ganxiluli,

maT Soris, maRali Tanamdebobis

pirebis monawileobiT. batoni

iveri yovel jerze cdilobda aexsna

maTTvis, ratom iyo SeuZlebeli

is, rasac isini ambobdnen. am

procesSi baton iveris oponirebas

uwevdnen zaza oniani, romelic sasuliero

piria da mama kirioni,

aseve irakli RaribaSvilis davalebiT

amas oponirebas uwevda mindia

janeliZis TanamSromeli giorgi

svaniZe, romelic sistemaSi namuSevari

adamiania. amasTanave, ori

adamiani: batoni xorbalaZe Tavdacvis

saministrodan da misi moadgile.

swored, es adamianebi amtkicebdnen,

rom „niu fingis” proeqciiT

Sedgenili rukebi SeiZleba yofiliyo,

Tavis droze, 1:500 000

masStabis ruka, rac, seriozul

kartografebs rom hkiTxoT, gamoricxulia.

batoni xorbalaZe iyo

swored is adamiani, romelic saxelmwifos

saxeliT wavida azerbaijanTan

Sexvedraze da rac ixeira,

moagxseneT kidec. rac Seexeba,

politikosebis gancxadebas, Cven-

Tvis naTelia, rom es saqme politikuri

konteqstis matarebelia.

batoni iveri da qalbatoni natalia

arian sindisis patimrebi. kartografebis

saqmeSi mTavari dana-

Sauli is aris, rom isini patiosnad

emsaxurebodnen sakuTar profesiasa

da saxelmwifos. xelisuflebisTvis

mTavari sargebeli am

saqmiT is aris, rom is xalxs atyuebs,

uCens fuW imeds, rom TiTqos

vinme garejas ibrunebs, im nawils,

romelic CvenTvis Zvirfasia, magram

Cvens teritoriaze ar aris da

Turme amis dabrunebas es ori adamiani

uSlida xels wlebis manZilze.

xelisufleba cdilobs, Seqmnas

tyuili iluzia, rom winasaar-

Cevno periodSi pozitivi miiRos.

meore mxriv, es aris udanaSaulo

adamianebis msxverplSewirva.

minda, sazogadoebam icodes, amas

proceszec kargad dainaxaven,

rom batoni iveri wlebis manZilze,

rasac yvela mowme adasturebs, Ti-

Toeuli goji qarTuli miwisTvis

ibrZoda, rom ufro meti Segvenar-

Cunebina. sadavo teritoria, daaxloebiT,

8000 heqtaria, romelzedac

ver SevTanxmdiT azerbaijan-

Tan. am 8000 heqtaridan batoni iveris

ZalisxmeviT Zalian bevri

saqarTvelos mxares aRmoCnda. ase

rom, gancda da damokidebuleba,

TiTqos viRac qarTul miwebs sxvebs

gadascemda, aris miTi, romelic

xelisuflebam Seqmna da darwmunebuli

var, es miTi Zalian male

gabaTildeba.

eqimebma 13 wlis bavSvi moiamoias

iSviaTi daavadebisgan gankurnes

m. iaSvilis saxelobis bavSvTa centralur saavadmyofoSi

uiSviaTesi paTologiis, moiamoias daavadebis mkurnaloba

warmatebiT Catarda. 13 wlis bavSvi hospitalSi

parkuWovani sisxlCaqceviT Seiyvanes. mas mwvave okluziuri

hidrocefalia aReniSneboda, ris gamoc eqimebma

urgentulad drenaJis gamoyeneba gadawyvites da Sokur

mdgomareobaSi myofi pacientis sicocxlis SenarCuneba

klinikaSi SeyvanisTanave SeZles.

magnitur-rezonansulma tomografiam iSemiuri insulti

gamoavlina, angiografiis Catarebis Sedegad ki

uiSviaTesi daavadebis, moiamoias diagnozi daisva. aRniSnuli

paTologia Tavis tvinis mkvebavi sisxlZarRvebis

progresirebad dazianebas gulisxmobs da misi warmoSobis

mizezi medicinisTvis dRemde ucnobi rCeba,

Tumca iaSvilis eqimebma qselis wamyvan specialistebTan

erTad pacientis mkurnalobis gzebi dasaxes.

„operaciamde eqimebma yvela SesaZlo garTulebis

Sesaxeb momawodes informacia. erTi SexedviT Cemi janmrTeli

Svili imdenad wamierad gaxda Zalian cudad, rom

simarTle giTxraT, imedic ki gadawuruli mqonda. arc

ki vici, rogor unda gamovxato madliereba eqimebis mimarT“,

- ixsenebs bavSvis deda.

hospitalis neiroqirurgiuli samsaxuris xelmZRvaneli

da pacientis erT-erTi mkurnali eqimi, ediSer ma-

RalaSvili ki ambobs, rom erToblivi ZalisxmeviT iSviaT

daavadebaze gamarjveba SesaZlebeli aRmoCnda:

„miviReT pialuri sinangiozis Catarebis gadawyvetileba,

romelic gulisxmobs safeTqlis zedapiruli arteriis

fiqsacias Tavis tvinis qsovilTan. es meTodi,

saboloo jamSi, axali sisxlZarRvebis warmoqmnis stimulacias

axdens da mniSvnelovnad amcirebs momavalSi

iSemiuri insultis ganviTarebis risks“.

mkurnaloba warmatebiT dasrulda, bavSvi ki cxovrebis

Cveul ritms daubrunda.

N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.

3


ìvaniSvils winasaarCevnod ori

levan samuSiam partia „Tavis-

nene injgia

ufali demokratebi” mimdinare

591 71 39 98

wlis 3 agvistos datova. amis

Sesaxeb man feisbuqis sakuTar

gverdze dawera: „miviRe CemTvis Zalian mZime gadawyvetileba,

davtovo partia „Tavisufali demokratebi”. warmatebas vusurveb

maT! sadac ar unda viyo, aqtiurad gavagrZeleb brZolas

„rusuli ocnebis” winaaRmdeg, qveynis dasavluri momavlisTvis

da erTxel da samudamod saqarTveloSi samarTliano-

bis dasamkvidreblad”.

„Tavisufali demokratebis” datovebis Semdeg levan samu-

Sia „lelos” SeurTda da 2020 wlis saparlamento arCevnebze

„lelos” maJoritarobis kandidatia didube-CuRureTis

saarCevno olqSi.

591 71 39 98 levan samuSia:

ratom gaakeTa arCevani „lel-

oze”? ras hpirdeba amomrCevels

da ra upiratesoba aqvs sxva kan-

didatebTan SedarebiT? _ am da

sxva mniSvnelovani mimdinare

politikuri Temebis Sesaxeb

„qronika+~ „lelos” maJoritarobis

kandidats didube-CuRu-

reTSi, levan samuSias esaubra:

_ batono levan, sanam mim-

dinare politikuri Temebis

Sesaxeb gkiTxavT, manamde ra iyo

„Tavisufali demokratebidan”

Tqveni wamosvlis mizezi?

_ am sakiTxze komentars ar

vakeTeb.

_ ratom SeaCereT arCevani

„leloze”?

_ „lelo” aris axali Zala, igi

profesionalebiT dakompleqtebuli

gundia, umwikvlo warsuliTa

da aqedan gamomdinare miviRe

es gadawyvetileba. darwmunebuli

var, rom es swori nabiji iyo.

_ azerbaijanTan sazRvris

SeTanxmebis saqmeze saxelmwifo

komisiis yofili wevrebis, iveri

melaSvilisa da natalia iliCo-

vas, dakaveba mTavari Temaa,

rasac ukve mohyva politikuri

Sefasebebi. opoziciis TqmiT,

xelisufleba am SeTiTxnili

saqmiT opoziciis demonizebas

cdilobs. Tqveni SefasebiT, ras

emsaxureba da risTvis dasWir-

da xelisuflebas maTi dakaveba?

_ es aris winasaarCevnod kerpTayvanismcemlebis

mier msxverplSewirva,

_ maT „kerp ivaniSvils”

ori adamianis Tavisufleba

Seswires. SemiZlia giTxraT, rom

es aris winasaarCevno, politikuri

dakaveba. msgavsi saqmeebi „qarTuli

ocnebis” safirmo niSania.

_ rogorc iuristi, ras ityv-

iT, samarTlebrivad gamarTulia

es saqme? arsebobs Tu ara bral-

debis realuri safuZveli?

_ rac Seexeba samarTlebriv

mxares, marTalia, saqmis masalebs

ar vicnob, magram vusmen braldebisa

da dacvis mxaresac. zogadad,

ra informaciac maqvs, es aris

samarTlebrivi absurdi, qveynisTvis

Zalian xifaTis momtani

da saziano qmedeba. ra Tqma unda,

daviTgareja saqarTveloa, qarTuli

miwaa da sulierebis qarTuli

saunjea, magram am yvelafers

sWirdeba strategiul partnior-

Tan frTxili mitana, molaparakeba

da ara iseTi saubari, rogorsac

saqarTvelos xelisufleba

awarmoebs. samarTlebrivad rom

vTqvaT, marTlac warmoudgeneli

ram xdeba. laparakia ganzrax danaSaulze,

Tumca ganzraxi danaSauli

motivisa da miznis gareSe

ar arsebobs. ra da vis sasargeblod

ganizraxes am SemTxvevaSi

iveri melaSvilma da natalia

iliCovam, amas ver ganmartaven,

magram gveubnebian, rom Tu rame

ganizraxes, mxolod saqarTvelos

sazianodo. Tu saqarTvelos

sazianod ganizraxes, e. i. viRacas

unda argon TavianTi qmedebiT.

maTi logikidan gamomdinare, mezobeli

saxelmwifos sasargeblod

ganuzraxavT, winaaRmdeg

SemTxvevaSi, es danaSauli ar iarsebebs.

brali jer ar aris dadasturebuli.

imas ar gveubnebian,

rom konkretuli adamianebi

vinmes sasargeblod muSaobdnen.

Tu es adamianebi vinmes sasargeblod

ar muSaobdnen, e. i. isini

unda Seamowmon, arian Tu ara

Seuracxadebi, rac, ra Tqma unda,

isedac naTelia, rom es adamianebi

Seuracxadebi ar arian. aqedan

gamomdinare, calsaxaa, rom es

aris binZurad nawarmoebi politikuri

saqme. batoni melaSvilis

mdgomareobam Zalian damTrguna.

davinaxe, Tu sanamde SeiZleba

daeces xelisufleba da rogor

gaanadguros adamiani. braldebacaa

da braldebac. braldebasac

xom gaaCnia, umZimes braldebas

ase xelaRebiT uyeneben. im sasuliero

piris Cvenebis safuZvelze

Tu arian es adamianebi da-

Werili, aseTi ram arc erT normalur

saxelmwifoSi ar xdeba.

_ Tqven aRniSneT, rom es aris

msxverplSewirva ivaniSvilis

saameblad. ratom riskavs ase

xelisufleba?

_ es yvelaferi xdeba saarCevnod,

es msxverplSewirvac amitom

gaakeTes. „qarTuli ocnebis” xelisuflebam

icis, rom misi marcxi

gardauvalia, amitomac sazogadoebis

TvalSi am saqmeebiT

plusis Caweras cdilobs, magram

„qarTuli ocneba” veranair

pluss ver Caiwers, piriqiT, saqarTvelos

moqalaqeebma yvelaferi

kargad ician, Tu risi

gamkeTeblebi da Semoqmedebi arian,

razea wamsvleli „qarTuli

ocnebis” xelisufleba. pirdapir

vityvi, rom es xelisufleba prorusulia,

es ukve calsaxaa, magram

darwmunebuli var, 2020

wlis saparlamento arCevnebSi, 31

oqtombers, „qarTuli ocnebis”

xelisuflebas saqarTvelos moqalaqeebi

saarCevno urnebTan

„aras!” etyvian. es kargad icis

mmarTvelma gundma. isini amas

`lelo~

iqneba

wamyvani Zala

koaliciur

mTavrobaSi!~

grZnoben, aqedan gamomdinare, isterikasa

da eiforiaSia arian,

warmoudgenel raRacebs akeTeben.

_ Tqven acxadebT, rom „qar-

Tul ocnebas” qarTveli amom-

rCeveli „aras!” etyvis, magram

kvlevebis mixedviT swored

mmarTveli gundi dgas pirvel

adgilze, am etapze mas Sansi

aqvs, rom Tu umravlesobiT ara,

koaliciiT mainc darCes xelisu-

flebaSi. ra gaZlevT imis Tqmis

safuZvels, rom „qarTuli ocne-

ba” Zalauflebas SeinarCunebs?

_ amomrCevels ukve uari gadawyvetili

aqvs. mogexsenebaT, didube-CuRureTSi

var maJoritarobis

kandidati, Sesabamisad, asobiT

adamians vxvdebi yoveldRe

da warmoudgenlad elodebian 31

oqtombris mosvlas, rom „qarTul

ocnebas” uari uTxran. damerwmuneT,

es namdvilad asea. rac

Seexeba koaliciur mTavrobas,

igi aucileblad Sedgeba, magram

`batoni melaSvilis mdgomareobam Zalian

damTrguna. davinaxe, Tu sanamde SeiZleba

daeces xelisufleba da rogor gaanadguros

adamiani. braldebacaa da braldebac.

braldebasac xom gaaCnia, umZimes braldebas

ase xelaRebiT uyeneben. im sasuliero piris

Cvenebis safuZvelze Tu arian es adamianebi

daWerili, aseTi ram arc erT normalur

saxelmwifoSi ar xdeba~

koaliciur mTavrobas Seqmnian

prodasavluri opoziciuri Zalebi,

„lelo” iqneba amis flagmani.

„qarTul ocnebas” xelisuflebaSi

rame formiT darCenis

Sansi ar gaaCnia. es arCevani amomrCevelma

ukve gaakeTa.

_ winasaarCevno periodSi

mudmivad gviwevs opoziciuri

politikuri partiebis erTmaneTTan

politikuri kinklao-

bis yureba. davuSvaT, rom arCevnebis

Semdeg dRis wesrigSi dad-

ga prodasavluri opoziciuri

Zalebis mier koaliciuri mTa-

vrobis Camoyalibebis sakiTxi.

dRevandeli mocemulobiT, ramdenad

didia Sansi, rom koali-

cia Sedges?

_ „lelo” aravisTan aris politikur

kinklaobaSi, Cven gvaqvs

Cveni dRis wesrigi da CvenTvis

mTavaria amomrCevelTan Sexvedra

da misTvis Waobidan amoyvanis

programis, _ „marSalis gegmis”

gacnoba. aseve gveqneba sasamarTlo

sistemis reformis

prezentacia, romelic gansxvavdeba

yvela sxva opoziciuri partiis

xedvisgan. Cveni gundi dakompleqtebulia

profesionalebiT

yvela dargsa da sferoSi. jer

winasaarCevno periodia, vnaxoT,

ra iqneba Semdeg, amas dro gvi-

Cvenebs, Tumca piradad erT rame-

Si darwmunebuli var: saqarTvelos

moqalaqeebis nebiT „qarTuli

ocneba” xelisuflebaSi ver

iqneba.

_ mTavar opoziciur Zalad

dRemde „nacionaluri moZraoba”

rCeba. raze dayrdnobiT ambobT,

rom mTavari flagmani, pro-

dasavluri opoziciuri Zalebis

mier koaliciuri mTavrobis

Camoyalibebis

SemTxvevaSi,

swored „lelo” iqneba?

_ amomrCevels mivandoT amis

gadawyveta. „lelos” Zalian didi

mxardaWera aqvs da igi yoveld-

Riurad izrdeba. Tundac is kvlevebi,

Tqven razedac saubrobT,

aCvenebs imas, Tu rogor izrdeba

„lelos” mxardaWera. danarCeni

saqarTvelos moqalaqeebs mivandoT.

„lelo” iqneba wamyvani Zala

koaliciur mTavrobaSi. amas vambob

Cveni kvlevebisa da amomrCevlebTan

yoveldRiuri Sexvedrebisas

maTi mxridan wamosuli ganwyobebis

safuZvelze.

_ Tqven axseneT „marSalis

gegma”, romelic sakmaod sain-

teresoa, Tumca sazogadoebis

garkveulma nawilma aRiqva, rog-

orc ararealuri da piarze mor-

gebuli. mkiTxvels rom ganvum-

artoT, ramdenad aris daTvli-

li da gaTvlili is Tanxebi, rac

am gegmis Sesrulebas sWirdeba?

_ vinc „marSalis gegmas” waikiTxavs

naxavs, rom iq ar aris

lozungebi. „marSalis gegmaSi”

detaluradaa ganxiluli, ra,

rogor da saidan unda gakeTdes.

aseve detalurad aris warmodgenili,

saidan SeiZleba Tanxebis

mozidva da rogor daiwyeba ekonomikis

winsvla. yvelaferi aris

aRwerili. „marSalis gegmam” ise-

Ti eqspertebis mowoneba daimsaxura,

romlebic, zogadad, kritikiTa

da obieqturobiT gamoirCe-

4 N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.


adamianis Tavisufleba Seswires!~

vian, aseve araviTari kavSiri aqvT

„lelosTan”. am gegmaze kargma

specialistebma imuSaves, aqedan

gamomdinare, yvelaferi awon-dawonilia.

_ mmarTvel gunds, opoziciur

partiebTan SedarebiT, gacilebiT

didi finansuri da ad-

ministraciuli resursi aqvs. es

ori faqtori, dameTanxmebiT,

rom mniSvnelovania. amjerad

ramdenad efeqtiani iqneba es

resursebi „qarTuli ocnebis”

sasargeblod?

_ satyuarebi, romlis gamoyenebasac

„qarTuli ocneba” saqar-

Tvelos mosaxleobis mimarT

cdilobda da cdilobs, ar imuSavebs.

darwmunebuli var, verc

fuladi da verc administraciuli

resursi „qarTuli ocnebis”

xelisuflebas arCevnebze ver

uSvelis, vinaidan TviTon administraciul

resursSic ki umravlesobas

gadawyvetili aqvs, rom

„qarTuli ocnebis” xelisuflebas

ar unda darCes Zalaufleba

da rom es xelisufleba arCevnebis

gziT mSvidobianad unda Seicvalos.

_ mTavari Tema, romelsac

aseve saxelisuflebo trolebi-

sa da botebis qarxana iyenebs

„lelos” winaaRmdeg, es aris

partiis liderebis saqmianoba,

rom isini biznesmenebi arian da

mxolod TavianTi interesebisTvis,

sakuTari biznesis dasacavad

modian politikaSi. dRevan-

deli mocemulobiT es narativi

ramdenad gaqarwylebulia?

_ pirvel rigSi, „lelos” liderebi

didi xania, biznesidan wamovidnen.

is, rom am Temis Sesaxeb

`pirvel rigSi, `lelos~ liderebi didi xania, biznesidan wamovidnen. is, rom am

Temis Sesaxeb trolebi da botebi aqtiuroben, geTanxmebiT, rac imaze

metyvelebs, rom xelisufleba Sewuxebulia `lelos~ mzardi reitingiT. `lelos~

liderebma TavianTi saqmianobiT Seqmnes 10 000-ze meti samuSao adgili, aseve

saqarTvelosa da msoflioSi cnobili brendkompaniebi. rac Seexeba maT

politikur warsuls, batoni badri jafariZe saqarTvelos damoukideblobis

aqtze xelmomweria, is erovnul moZraobaSi maSin iyo, roca bevrs saerTod

sajarod komunistebisa da bolSevikebis winaaRmdeg brZolis eSinoda~

trolebi da botebi aqtiuroben,

geTanxmebiT, rac imaze metyvelebs,

rom xelisufleba Sewuxebulia

„lelos” mzardi reitingiT.

„lelos” liderebma TavianTi

saqmianobiT Seqmnes 10 000-ze meti

samuSao adgili, aseve saqarTvelosa

da msoflioSi cnobili

brendkompaniebi. rac Seexeba maT

politikur warsuls, batoni badri

jafariZe saqarTvelos damoukideblobis

aqtze xelmomweria,

is erovnul moZraobaSi maSin

iyo, roca bevrs saerTod sajarod

komunistebisa da bolSevikebis

winaaRmdeg brZolis eSinoda.

aqedan gamomdinare, am adamianebs

TavianTi Zalian saintereso da

mdidari warsuli aqvT. amavdroulad,

did gamocdilebas floben.

aRsaniSnavia isic, rom TavianTi

saqmianobis ganmavlobaSi

maT aranairi maqinaciebi da xelisuflebasTan

kavSiri ar hqoniaT,

sufTa biznesiT, TavianTi

niWiTa da SromiT Seqmnes yvelaferi.

sazogadoeba yvelafers

SesaniSnavad akontrolebs da

kargad moexseneba, rac xdeba.

kidev erTxel xazgasmiT vambob,

rom trolebisa da botebis aqtiuroba

am kuTxiT ganpirobebulia

imiT, rom mmarTveli gundi „lelos”

reitingis gamo Zalian

Sewuxebulia.

_ Tqven axseneT, rom yoveld-

Riurad asobiT adamians xvdeb-

iT. ra problemebis winaSe dgas

Tqveni olqis, didube-CuRure-

Tis, mosaxleoba da rogoria

maTi winasaarCevno ganwyoba?

_ iseTive problemebia didube-CuRureTSi,

rogorc _ mTel

saqarTveloSi: ukiduresi sidux-

Wire, umuSevroba. Sexvedrebze

yvela meubneba im problemaze,

rasac narkomania hqvia, am Temaze

xSirad vsaubrobT. aseve seriozuli

infrastruqturuli problemebia:

magaliTad, CuRureTSi

saxlebi katastroful mdgomareobaSia

da ingreva. oqros koSkebs

aravis vpirdebi, iseT dapirebebs

ar gavcem, risi Sesrulebac

SeuZlebelia, magram Cems sityvas

yovelTvis hqonda fasi da asec

iqneba. me SemiZlia amomrCevels

vuTxra, rom misi warmomadgeneli,

damcveli viqnebi parlamentSi.

Tundac im infrastruqturuli

proeqtebis Sesrulebaze

visac aqvs uflebamosileba da ar

akeTebs, swored maTi zedamxedveli

viqnebi da kanonis Sesabamisad

umkacresad movTxov pasuxs

maT. yvelam kargad viciT, ra

korufcia da nepotizmia, Sesabamisad,

amas sWirdeba mkacri kontroli

da monitoringi. es namdvilad

ar meSleba.

_ sxva kandidatebTan Sedare-

biT ra upiratesoba gaqvT?

_ sakuTar Tavze ar minda

saubari. ubralod, erTi ram SemiZlia

giTxraT: amomrCevlisgan

Zalian did mxardaWeras vgrnob.

am mxardaWeridan gamomdinare,

arc ki viRlebi. amomrCevlis

mxridan Cem mimarT warmoudgenlad

dadebiTi muxti modis. dilidan

saRamomde maTTan kardakar

Sexvedraze var, ukve aTasobiT

adamians Sevxvdi da 31 oqtombramde

am Sexvedrebs vagrZeleb,

vismen maT problemebs, aseve vuziareb

Cvens xedvebs da minda,

Tqveni gazeTis saSualebiT madloba

gadavuxado didube-CuRureTis

amomrCevlebs, romlebic

ase Tbilad mxvdebian.

_ ra aris „lelos” mTavari

koziri 2020 wlis saparlamento

arCevnebze?

_ pirvel rigSi, es aris is, rom

„lelo” axali Zalaa. „leloSi”

arian adamianebi, romlebsac aqvT

sufTa warsuli, arian profesionalebi

da yvelam TavianT sferoSi

warmatebas miaRwia. „lelo”

profesionali, keTilsindisieri

adamianebis gundia.

vin moxvda aWaris `lelo saqarTvelosTvis~ partiuli siis aTeulSi?

xviCa mamulaZe

partiam „lelo saqarTvelosTvis”

aWaris umaRlesi sabWos arCevnebisTvis

partiuli sia waradgina.

vin moxvda „lelos” aTeulSi da saidan

modian isini? „qronika+~ siis wevrebis

Sesaxeb informacias gTavazobT:

1. genadi TebiZe _ baTumis maJoritarobis

kandidati aWaris umaRles sabWoSi.

daamTavra saqarTvelos teqnikuri universiteti

da Tsu _ profesiiT iuristi; iyo

erovnuli moZraobis aqtiuri wevri;

„demokratiuli aWaris” regionuli organizaciis

Tavmjdomare; gazeT „aWaris” redaqtori;

aWaris mTavrobis Tavmjdomaris

mrCeveli; baTumis sakrebulos ori mowvevis

wevri da iuridiuli komisiis Tavmjdomare;

TviTmmarTvelobaSi muSaobis dros

iyo sxvadasxva proeqtis avtori; misi TanamonawileobiT

daarsda „sapatio baTumelis

wodeba” da „baTumqalaqobis” dResaswauli;

aris ramdenime wignis avtori da redaqtori,

saqvelmoqmedo fond „alilo 2015-

isa” da qarTul-ukrainul proeqt „bavSvebs

undaT mSvidoba” damfuZnebeli;

2. vaJa darCia _ ganaTlebiT politikis

mecnieri, samoqalaqo aqtivisti, studenturi

moZraobebis aqtiuri wevri. wlebis

ganmavlobaSi ibrZoda garemos dacviTi,

SromiTi uflebebisa da ganaTlebis xelmisawvdomobis

misaRwevad; ilias saxelmwifo

universitetis kursdamTavrebuli; sxvadasxva

saerTaSoriso proeqtis monawile

da organizatori;

3. merab abaSiZe _ xelvaCauri-qeda-Suaxevi-xulos

maJoritarobis kandidati aWaris

umaRles sabWoSi. ganaTlebiT filosofosi,

ekaterinburgis saxelmwifo universitetis

socialur mecnierebaTa fakultetis

kursdamTavrebuli; aWaris umaRlesi sab-

Wos deputati 2012-2016 wlebSi; umaRlesi

sabWos agraruli da TviTmmarTvelobis komisiis

Tavmjdomare; aqtiurad iyo CarTuli

sakanonmdeblo saqmianobaSi, aris mravali

sakanonmdeblo proeqtis avtori, maT

Soris, aWaris regionisTvis umniSvnelovanesi

„mTis kanonis” Tanaavtoria;

4. ekaterine daviTaZe _ baTumis universitetis

kursdamTavrebuli; ilias saxelmwifo

universitetis magistri da doqtoranti

masobrivi komunikaciis mimarTulebiT.

qarTul-avstriul liderTa skolis kursdamTavrebuli;

muSaobs baTumis sajaro

biblioTekaSi; ganaTlebis sertificirebuli

treneri; sxvadasxva wlebSi muSaobda

aWaris televiziaSi, radio „aWaraSi”, tv-25-

ze, gazeT „aWaraSi”; muSaobda aWaris

mTavrobis masmediasa da sazogadoebasTan

urTierTobis departamentSi;

5. raul paqsaZe _ raul paqsaZe aris ba-

Tumis gamorCeulad warmatebuli eqimitravmatologi,

2003 wlidan moRvaweobs

samedicino sferoSi. bolo 6 wlis ganmavlobaSi

iyo qobuleTis „eveqsis” hospitalis

direqtori. amJamad baTumis samedicino

centrSi xelmZRvanelobs orTopedia-travmatologiis

mimarTulebas; 2004 wlidan

dRemde aqtiurad CarTulia politikaSi;

xulos sakrebulos wevri;

6. daviT mamulaZe _ eqimi alergologi.

baTumis SoTa rusTavelis saxelobis saxelmwifo

universitetisa da Tbilisis saxelmwifo

samedicino universitetis kursdamTavrebuli,

medicinis doqtoranti! 10-

wliani saeqimo staJiT mudmivad dgas baTumeli

mosaxleobis janmrTelobis dasacavad;

7. maka cincaZe _ iuristi, Tbilisis saxelmwifo

universitetis kursdamTavrebuli;

samoqalaqo da sisxlis samarTlis sertificirebuli

advokati 15-wliani gamocdilebiT;

mravali welia TanamSromlobs

amerikis iuristTa asociaciasTan qarTvel

iuristTa gadamzadebis proeqtebSi;

flobs 4 ucxo enas; aris 2 wignis avtori;

8. mixeil qavTaraZe _ sazogadoebrivi

moZraoba „me miyvars baTumis” erT-erTi

damfuZnebeli; iuristi _ daamTavra baTumis

SoTa rusTavelis saxelmwifo universitetis

iuridiuli fakulteti; samoqalaqo

aqtivisti; wlebis ganmavlobaSi

ibrZvis baTumis urbanuli problematikis

mosagvareblad da kulturuli memkvidreobis

dasacavad;

9. goCa JRenti _ Tbilisis saxelmwifo

samedicino universtitisa da sasoflo sameurneo

universitetis kursdamTavrebuli. ori

profesiis mqone, eqimi-otorinolaringologi

da satyeo-sainJinro saqmis specialisti.

goCa JRenti 2004-2005 wlebSi iyo qedis municipalitetis

gamgeblis pirveli moadgile,

aseve 2005-2012 wlamde gaxldaT aWaris soflis

meurneobis ministris moadgile;

10. irakli kupraZe _ 2020 wlis saparlamento

arCevnebSi baTumis maJoritarad

iyris kenWs.

N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.

5


ìvaniSvili `toCni zurabas~

ukve didi xania, rac mmarTveli

Sorena marsagiSvili

gundi STagvagonebs, rom arCevnebs

599 92 16 22

isev is moigebs da parlamentSi

kvlav umravlesobiT Seva. asaxele-

ben sxvadasxva procents, Tu ramdens aiReben. maT mamamzes,

biZina ivaniSvils, gansakuTrebuli mada aRmoaCnda da mogvaxa-

la, 63%-s davdebTo. bevrma misi es gancxadeba 2013 wlis saprezidento

arCevnebis win naTqvams Seadara. maSin mTavarma meoc-

nebem gvamcno, Cveni kandidati, giorgi margvelaSvili, 63%-s

Tu ar dadebs, politikidan wavalo. es is droa, qarTvelebis

nawils biZina RmerTi rom egona. axla sxva situaciaa, biZina

ivaniSvilma Tavisi namdvili saxe gamoaCina da qveyanasac etyoba

misi mmarTveloba. amitomac veRar wagviyenebda ultimatums

_ Tu „ocneba” 63%-s ar aiRebs wavalo. araa gamoricxu-

li, es gancxadeba man ceskos gasagonad gaakeTa.

murman dumbaZe:

`31 oqtombris

saRamos

`qarTuli

ras emsaxureba biZina ivaniSvilis

aseTi gancxadebebi? vis da

ris amara darCa oligarqi? rodis

aRiarebs „ocneba” damarcxebas?

rodis Camodis mixeil

saakaSvili saqarTveloSi? _ amis

Sesaxeb opoziciuri gaerTianeba

„Zala erTobaSias” erT-erTi

lideri, murman dumbaZe, „qronika+~-s

esaubreba:

_ batono murman, gasul kvi-

ras ivaniSvilma ganacxada, rom

„qarTul ocnebas” SeuZlia am

arCevnebze 63% aiRoso. Tqveni

azriT, ras eyrdnoba misi aseTi

optimisturi prognozi?

_ imas, ris amarac darCa biZina

ivaniSvili. is arCevnebs „toCni

zurabas” kvlevebis safuZvelze

atarebs. es kvlevac „toCni

zurabas” Catarebuli unda iyos.

_ „toCni zuraba” zurab big-

vavaa?

_ eg gaxlavT. am adamians „qarTul

ocnebaSi” seriozuli gavlenebi

aqvs. raRac kvlevebs

atarebs. man saprezidento arCvnebis

drosac Caatara kvlevebi.

am kvlevebis Sedegebi arCevnebis

dRes irakli kobaxiZem gamogvicxada.

kvlevebis mixedviT

salome zurabiSvilma pirvelive

turSi gaimarjva. ramdenime wuT-

Si am kvlevebis Sedegebi ukan

waiRes. gamarjvebulis gamosavlenad

meore turi dainiSna, bigvavas

ki „toCni zuraba” Searqves.

_ ise, rogorc amboben, mag

„toCni zurabas” sxva Sedegebi

ewera, magram kobaxiZis daJinebuli

moTxovniT dado is Sede-

gio.

_ amas axla mniSvneloba ar

aqvs. am kacs SerCa „toCni zurabas”

saxeli da ivaniSvili misi

kvlevebis amaraa darCenili. Tan

isic unda aRiniSnos, rom ivaniSvilis

garSemo bevrma „toCni

zurabam” moiyara Tavi. isini

ajereben „ocnebis” liders, rom

arCevnebze aseTi Sedegi dadgeba.

Cemi azriT, cifrebiT manipulireba,

rom arCevnebze amden da

amden procents miviReb, politikosis

amocana ar unda iyos.

politikosis amocanaa, adamianebs

im dapirebebis Sesrulebaze

elaparakos, rasac xelisuflebaSi

mosvlamde gascemda.

politikosebma amomrCevels

samoqmedo gegmac unda warudginon.

ukve mecxre weli daiwyo,

rac „qarTuli ocneba” xelisuflebaSia.

am rva wlis manZilze

maT araferi gaukeTebiaT, mxolod

afuWebdnen. yvela mimarTulebiT

aqvT Cavardnebi.

amisTvis isini 31 oqtombers miiReben

pasuxs. Cven yvela xelisufleba

araumetes rvawliani

mmarTvelobis Semdeg gamovcvaleT.

biZina ivaniSvilic ar iqneba

gamonaklisi.

_ ratom ggoniaT, rom ar

iqneba gamonaklisi? „ocnebaSi”

sjeraT, rom mesame vadiTac

movlen xelisuflebaSi.

_ sakiTxavia, marTla sjeraT

amisi, Tu ise laparakoben?

ivaniSvili kidev erTi vadiT ve-

Rar darCeba xelisuflebaSi. is

yvelaze susti mmarTveli aRmoCnda,

rac ki aqamde gvyolia.

_ misi sisuste raSi gamoix-

ateba?

_ imaSi, rom Zalian male wavida

xelisuflebidan.

_ premierobidan gadadgomas

gulisxmobT?

_ diax.

_ zogierTma es mis si-

Zliered Seafasa.

_ marTla rom wasuliyo xelisuflebidan,

siZliere iqneboda,

magram is gadavida CrdilSi

da qveynis araformaluri

mmarTveloba daiwyo. es gaakeTa

imisTvis, rom ufro meti finansuri

xeiri enaxa. amisTvis mas 31

oqtombers saqarTvelos moqalaqeebi

ganaCens gamoutanen. 31

oqtombers „qarTuli ocneba”

rom xelisuflebas CamoSordeba,

amaSi darwmunebuli var. momaval

parlamentSi partiebi rogor

gadanawildebian da vis ra procenti

ergeba, es ukve Cveni amomrCevlis

gadasawyvetia. opozicia

myarad rom moigebs, es eWvebs ar

iwvevs. am opoziciaSi yvelaze

met xmas nomeri 5 aiRebs.

_ sanam nomer 5-ze gkiTxavT,

isev ivaniSvilis gaJRerebul

63%-s davubrundebi. es cesko-

sTvis gacemuli gankargulebaa,

Tu xalxs agueben, rom aseTi

Sedegi daideba?

_ mgonia, rom es „qarTuli

ocnebis” mxardamWerebisTvis gakeTebuli

gancxadebaa, xelisufleba

mxardamWerebze manipulirebas

cdilobs. 63%-is dadeba

warmoudgenelia.

_ ratom fiqrobT, rom es

warmoudgenelia?

_ imitom, rom aseTi Sedegis

dasadebad arCevnebi seriozulad

unda gayalbdes. arCevnebis

ocneba~ marcxs

aRiarebs~

gayalbeba ki SeuZlebelia.

_ darwmunebuli xarT, rom

SeuZlebelia arCevnebis gayal-

beba?

_ darwmunebuli var.

_ amis Tqmis sababs ra ga-

ZlevT?

_ amis Tqmis sababs maZlevs is,

rom Cveni sazogadoeba politikurad

gaizarda. gaizardnen

politikosebi. amitom mgonia,

rom ivaniSvili gayalbebas moerideba.

_ Tu ar moerida?

_ Tu ar moerideba da Zaladoba-gayalbebis

gzas daadgeba,

miiRebs imas, rac postsabWoTa

respublikebSi miiRes adgilobrivma

mmarTvelebma. ara mgonia,

ivaniSvilma ar icodes, Tu ra

xdeba belarusSi an yirgizeTSi.

gayalbebul arCevnebze Cvenc

mwvave reaqciebi gvaqvs xolme.

SeiZleba iTqvas, rom Cvengan daiwyo.

2003 wlis „vardebis revolucia”

arCevnebis gayalbebis

gamo moxda. revoluciis win mixeil

saakaSvilma eduard SevardnaZes

dauCoqa da sTxova, gamoeqveynebinaT

is Sedegebi, rac

realurad daido arCevnebze.

eduard SevardnaZem amis gakeTeba

ar isurva da miiRo „vardebis

revolucia”. ivaniSilic revolucias

miiRebs, Tu gayalbebaze

wava.

_ ivaniSvilisgan gansxvave-

biT, SevardnaZes amdeni fuli

ar hqonia. did fuls bevri ra-

mis Secvla SeuZlia.

_ zogjer fuli arafers niSnavs,

maT Soris, arc didi fuli.

SvardnaZes mdeni fuli ar hqonda,

ramdenic ivaniSvils aqvs, magram

is didi politikosi iyo da

Zalian seriozuli saerTa-

Soriso gavlenebi hqonda. am

mxriv ivaniSvilisa da Sevardna-

Zis Sedareba ar SeiZleba. am gavlenian

politikossac mouwia

àm adamians `qarTul ocnebaSi~ seriozuli

gavlenebi aqvs. raRac kvlevebs atarebs. man

saprezidento arCvnebis drosac Caatara

kvlevebi. am kvlevebis Sedegebi arCevnebis dRes

irakli kobaxiZem gamogvicxada. kvlevebis

mixedviT salome zurabiSvilma pirvelive

turSi gaimarjva. ramdenime wuTSi am kvlevebis

Sedegebi ukan waiRes. gamarjvebulis

gamosavlenad meore turi dainiSna, bigvavas ki

`toCni zuraba~ Searqves~

saxlSi wasvla. ase mouwevs „ocnebis”

lidersac. mas sxva gza

aqvs.

_ ra gza?

_ ise unda moiqces, rogorc

2012 wlis pirvel oqtombers

moiqca mixeil saakaSvili. man

damarcxeba aRiara da opozicia-

Si gadavida. ase Rirseulad unda

moiqces ivaniSvilic. is wlebis

winaT Cems rCevebs iTvaliswinebda.

minda, rom es rCevac gaiTvaliswinos.

„ocnebis” lideri Tu

ase moiqceva, pirveli me viqnebi,

vinc mas xels CamoarTmevs.

vfiqrob, unda dasruldes is

dro, roca damarcxebuli Zalis

liderebi qveynidan garbodnen.

xelisuflebis yofili pirveli

pirebis devna da maTTvis moqalaqeobis

CamorTmevac warsuls

unda CavabaroT.

_ imaT ras upirebT, romelT-

ac danaSauli aqvT Cadenili?

arc maT unda movTxovoT pa-

suxi?

_ damnaSavem pasuxi unda agos.

oRond damnaSavea Tu ara is,

damoukidebelma sasamarTlom

unda gadawyvitos. samwuxarod,

saqarTvelom ver SeZlo am xnis

manZilze damoukidebeli da samarTliani

sasamarTlos Camoyalibeba.

opoziciuri partiebi

SeTanxmebuli varT, rom moviwvevT

ucxoel mosamarTleebs.

amiT Cveni suvereniteti odnav

Seilaxeba, bevrad meti Tanxis

daxarjvac mogviwevs, magram amis

gakeTeba aucilebelia. xalxma

unda irwmunos, rom CvenTanac

SeiZleba iyos samarTliani sasamarTlo.

Rrmad mjera, rom Seqmnili

viTarebidan gamomdinare „ocneba”

arCevnebis gayalbebas ver

gabedavs. axla mimdinareobs

fsiqologiuri omi. ivaniSvili

Tavisi gancxadebebiT cdilobs

mxardamWerebis gamagrebas. misi

gamonaTqvamebi neitraluri adamianebis

gulis mogebasac emsaxureba.

Cven yuradReba ar unda

mivaqcioT mis gancxadebebs. Cven

unda vimuSaoT mosaxleobasTan

da yvelas avuxsnaT, rom samSob-

6 N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.

N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.


kvlevebis amara darCa~

lo aris gansacdelSi. rva weli

WaobSi idga qveyana. am avgias

Tavlis gasufTaveba advili ar

iqneba, magram momaval xelisuflebas

amis gakeTeba mouwevs.

darwmunebuli var, koaliciuri

mTavroba mixeil saakaSvilis me-

TaurobiT amas SeZlebs.

_ Tqven imaSic darwmunebuli

xarT, rom koaliciuri mTavro-

bis mTauri saakaSvili iqneba?

_ ra Tqma unda. me viyavi erTerTi

pirveli, vinc Tqva, rom

mixeil saakaSvili unda iyos Cveni

premierobis kandidati. amis

Sesaxeb amomrCevelsac vesaubrebi.

isini miSas gapremierebis ambavs

taSiT egebebian. maT Soris,

vinc 2012 wels Cemi da „qarTuli

ocnebis” mxardamWeri iyo.

maT, iseve rogorc me, sjerodaT,

rom qveyanaSi viTareba sasike-

Tod Seicvleboda. magram saqarTvelo

erT adgilze gaCerda.

rig saiTxebSi ukanac wavida. ase

gagrZeleba ukve aRar SeiZleba.

saqarTvelos sWirdeba koaliciuri

mTavroba da reformebi.

_ ambobT, xalxi taSiT xvdeba

imas, rom miSa premieri gaxdebao.

opozicia am ideas namd-

vilad ar ukravs taSs.

_ es normaluria. arc erTi

partiis lideri ar ityvis, rom

sxva partiis liders airCevs

premierad. arc zurab jafariZe

da arc Salva naTelaSvili ityvian,

rom miSa maTi premierobis

kandidatia. igives izamen sxva

liderebic. yvela Tavis kandidats

uWers mxars. es gaxlavT politikuri

konkurenciis ani da

bani. visac es ar esmis, maTTan

kamaTs ar vapireb. imaSi ki Rrmad

var darwmunebuli, rom rogorc

ki axali parlamenti Seikribeba,

es liderebi saxelmwifoebriv

gadawyvetilebas miiReben.

_ saxelmwifoebriv gadaw-

yvetilebaSi ras gulisxmobT?

_ isini premieris postze

romelime konkretul pirovnebas

ki ar dauWeren mxars, aramed im

gadawyvetilebas scemen pativs,

rac qarTvelma xalxma miiRo.

premieris gamosavlenad Zalian

martivi algoriTmi arsebobs.

Cven opoziciuri partiebi SevdivarT

konkurenciaSi. vinc met

xmas miiRebs, is proporciulad

metad gadanawildeba mTavroba-

Si. ase xdeba evropis qveynebSi da

moxdeba saqarTveloSic. Cven

evropa imitom ki ar gvinda, rom

rukaze misi saxeli mogvwons,

evropa gvinda imitom, rom iq

demokratiaa. 31 oqtombris ar-

Cevnebi mxolod arCevnebi araa,

es erTgvari referendumic aris.

am referendumze gadawydeba,

dabrundeba Tu ara mixeil saaka-

Svili samSobloSi. „nacionaluri

moZraobidan” gamoyofili partiebis

liderebi gansakuTrebiT

ewinaaRmdegebian saakaSvilis

premierobas, magram es SemaSfo-

Tebeli sulac ar aris. gulwrfelad

mjera, rom rogorc ki

parlamenti Seikribeba, isini mi-

Sas kandidaturas dauWeren mx-

`31 oqtombris arCevnebi mxolod arCevnebi araa, es erTgvari referendumic

aris. am referendumze gadawydeba, dabrundeba Tu ara mixeil saakaSvili

samSobloSi. `nacionaluri moZraobidan~ gamoyofili partiebis liderebi

gansakuTrebiT ewinaaRmdegebian saakaSvilis premierobas, magram es

SemaSfoTebeli sulac ar aris. gulwrfelad mjera, rom rogorc ki

parlamenti Seikribeba, isini miSas kandidaturas dauWeren mxars~

ars. arCevnebze Tu romelime

sxva partia aiRebs Cvenze met

xmas, maSin maT kandidats davuWerT

mxars.

_ Tqven ukve imaze fiqrobT,

vin dauWers mxars saakaSvilis

gapremierebas. ratom gamoricx-

avT, rom „ocnebam” romelime

opoziciur

oziciur partiasTan erTad

Seqmnas umravlesoba da man daakompleqtos

momavali mTavro-

ba?

_ aseTi rame gamoricxulia.

„qarTuli ocneba” marcxdeba,

gamarjveba opozicias darCeba.

oficialuri SeTanxmeba ar gagviformebia,

magram opoziciuri

partiebi SeTanxmebulebi varT,

rom arc erTi Cvengani mxars ar

dauWers „ocnebas” sakoaliciod.

am pirobis darRveva iqneba

saqarTvelos moqalaqeebis gadagdeba,

rasac verc erTi politikuri

partia ver gabedavs.

_ aseTi dawmunebulic nu

iqnebiT, Cvens politikosebs

araerTxel gadaugdiaT xalxi.

_ es warsulSi iyo. axla vi-

Tareba Seicvala. politikurad

xalxic gaizarda da politikosebic.

amitom mgonia, rom xalxis

gadagdebas veravin gabedavs.

_ opoziciurma partiebma xom

gabedeT, dagvpirdiT, rom er-

Tiani maJoritarobis kandi-

datebi geyolebodaT da es

piroba ar SeasruleT.

_ konkurenciis momxre var da

ar vfiqrob, rom xalxi gadavagdeT.

meore turSi mTeli opoziia

„qarTuli ocnebis” kandidatis

sawinaaRmdegod gaerTiandeba.

_ pirvelive turSi ar Sei-

Zleboda amis gakeTeba?

_ SeiZleboda, magram ar gamovida.

amis gamo tragedias nu

SevqmniT. darwmunebuli var,

bevr olqSi opozicioneri kandi-

`2003 wlis `vardebis revolucia~ arCevnebis

gayalbebis gamo moxda. revoluciis win

mixeil saakaSvilma eduard SevardnaZes

dauCoqa da sTxova, gamoeqveynebinaT is

Sedegebi, rac realurad daido arCevnebze.

eduard SevardnaZem amis gakeTeba ar isurva

da miiRo `vardebis revolucia~. ivaniSilic

revolucias miiRebs, Tu gayalbebaze wava~

datebi pirvelive turSi gaimarjveben.

eWvic ar mepareba, rom

levan varSalomiZe pirvelive

turSi moipovebs maJoritaris

mandats. pirvelive turSi moigeben

arCevnebs grigol vaSaZe, nika

melia, levan xabeiSvili, daviT

kirkitaZe, giorgi botkoveli.

sadRac 12 olqSi pirvelive

turSi davamTavrebT. 18 olqSi

erTiani ZalebiT davupirispirdebiT

xelisuflebis kandidats.

imisTvis, rom xelisufleba

Seicvalos, opozicia Zalian aqtiurad

muSobs: davdivarT kardakar,

vxvdebiT amomrCevlebs.

vuxsniT xalxs, rom ase gagr-

Zeleba ar SeiZleba. kidev ufro

aqtiurad vimuSavebdiT, magram

pandemia gviSlis xels. ramdenjerme

vTqvi, rom politikurad

gavizardeT. magaliTad, baTumSi

Cveni da „ocnebis” saarCevno Stabebi

gverdigverd aris. Cven mSvidobianad

TanavcxovrobT da

SevdivarT konkurenciaSi. minda,

rom yvelgan ase iyos. umravlesoba

da opozicia mSvidad unda

atarebdnen saarCevno kampanias.

aseTi saqarTvelosTvis vibrZvi

amdeni welia da mgoni, dadga es

dro. darwmunebuli var, 31 oqtombris

saRamos „qarTuli ocneba”

damarcxebas aRiarebs da

opoziciaSi gadava. opoziciis

gamarjveba gardauvalia. nomeri

5 yvelaze met xmas miiRebs. amas

xalxis ganwyobidan gamomdinare

geubnebiT. mTeli saqarTvelo

moviare da Zalian bevrma miTxra,

rom 5 nomers uWers mxars.

_ Tqven ra uTxariT, _ vinc 5

nomers Semoxazavs, rame ube-

dureba daemarTebao, _ rogorc

amas 2012 wels ambobdiT?

_ axla amas aRar vambob. maSin

5 nomeri unda gagveSva. sxvanairad

ar gamodioda. axla 41 nomris

gaSvebis dro movida. isini

xelisuflebaSi Tu darCnen, saqarTvelo

ruseTis nawili gaxdeba.

Cvens axalgazrdebs parizis,

londonis, haidelbegis nacvlad

tulasa da omskSi mouwevT

ganaTlebis miReba. darwmunebu-

li var, rom aseTi perspeqtiva

aravis xiblavs, maT Soris, arc

„ocnebis” momxreebs. velodebi,

rom ivaniSvili 31 oqtombers

opozicias gamarjvebas miulocavs.

ase Tu ar moxda, xalxi

Tavad ipovis gamosavals.

_ ra gamosavals ipovis

xalxi?

_ moxdeba is, rac postsabWo-

Ta sivrceSi xdeba. kidev erTxel

gameordeba, rac 2003 wels

iyo saqarTveloSi.

_ revolucias gulisxmobT?

_ Zalian ar minda, ase rom

moxdes, magram xelisufleba

marcxis aRiarebaze uars Tu ityvis,

sxva gza ar gvrCeba. ratom-

Rac, mjera, rom ivaniSvili

marcxs aRiarebs.

_ es fraza bevrjer gaimeoreT

da zedmetad optimistur-

ad xom ar xarT ganwyobili?

_ Cemi optimizmi realobidan

gamomdinareobs. qveyanaSi iseTi

viTarebaa, rom SeuZlebelia,

opoziciam ar moigos arCevnebi.

dRes opozicias is xalxic ki

uWers mxars, romelic, jer

kidev, cota xnis win „qarTuli

ocnebs” momxre iyo. xom daujerebelia,

rom „ocnebis” mxardamWerma

5-iani Semoxazos, magram

Zalian bevri maTgani Semoxazavs

5-ians. opoziciidan yvelaze met

procents „nacionaluri moZraoba”

daagrovebs. mas yvela partiaze

meti xma eqneba.

_ isev orpartiulobisken

mivdivarT: iqiT _ „ocneba”, aqeT

_ nomeri xuTi.

_ ver getyviT es samwuxaroa

Tu sasixarulo, magram realoba

aseTia. sxva opoziciuri partiebi

imaze nakleb xmas miiReben,

vidre „qarTuli ocneba” da nomeri

5. es aris realoba da Cven

am realobidan gamovideT.

_ nomeri 5 „ocnebaze” met

xmas aiRebs?

_ nomeri 5 am arCevnebSi seriozul

Sedegs aCvenebs. rogorc

ukve giTxariT, mas „ocnebis”

momxreebic ki aZleven xmas. saqarTvelos

aucileblad eyoleba

koaliciuri mTavroba da am

mTavrobas mixeil saakaSvili

Caudgeba saTaveSi.

_ mTavrobas saTaveSi rom

Caudges, amisTvis jer qveyanaSi

unda dabrundes.

_ aucileblad dabrundeba.

_ rodis dabrundeba?

_ es damokidebulia amomrCevlis

marjvena da marcxena xelze.

maTzea damokidebuli isic, Zlierad

dabrundeba Tu ara saakaSvili.

Tu Zlierad Semoxazaven 5

nomers, Zlierad dabrundeba, Tu

sustad, dabrunebac susti iqneba.

Rrmad var darwmunebuli,

rom saqarTvelos mesame prezidenti

Zlierad dabrundeba saqarTveloSi.

Cven warsuls unda

CavabaroT is dro, roca xelisuflbidan

wasul adamianebs qveynidan

vaZevebdiT. vinmes danaSauli

Tu aqvs Cadenili, pasuxi unda

movTxovoT, magram moqalaqeoba

aravis aRar unda wavarTvaT.

moqalaqeobis CamorTmeva es

aris Rirsebis sakiTxi. Rirsebis

gareSe verc erTi saxelmwifo

ver viTardeba. Cven unda davibrunoT

es Rirseba. saakaSvilis

saqarTveloSi dabrunebiT aRvidgenT

Rirsebas.

7


`ruseTis zurgi rom ara, `qarTuli

mas Semdeg, rac „qarTuli oc-

Sorena marsagiSvili

neba” movida xelisuflebaSi, dav-

Tamar 599 92 16 22 iTgarejis Tema araerTxel dadga

dRis wesrigSi. am mimarTule-

biT mravaljer gamwvavda situacia, magram meocnebeebi amas

ar imCnevdnen. metic: isini yvelas lamis moRalateebad acx-

adebdnen, vinc ityoda, rom daviTgareja saqarTveloa. am

sakiTxs „ocnebam” mxolod arCevnebis win dauTmo yuradReba

da scada, rom es Tema mTavari konkurentis CasaZirad gamo-

eyenebina. egonaT, rom maT mier gaxeTqil „skandals” iseTive

efeqti eqneboda, rogoric 2012 wels hqonda cixis kadrebs.

meocnebeTa molodini ar gamarTlda. sazogadoebam ar dai-

jera, rom saakaSvilma alievs daviTgareja aCuqa. xalxi im

adamianebis mimarT ganewyo solidarulad, romlebic am „skan-

dalis” Sesaqmnelad daakaves. sxva Tu araferi yvelas gvaxsovs,

rom daviTgarejis mimarTulebiT situacia salome zu-

rabiSvilis upasuxismgeblo gancxadebebis Semdeg daiZaba.

CxeiZe:

òperacia

daviTgareja~

Cavarda~

salome zurabiSvilis upasuxismgeblo

gancxadebebi kargad

axsovs erovnuli moZraobis

erT-erT lider Tamar CxeiZes.

is raRac periodi muSaoda

kidec daviTgarejaSi da am-

bobs, rom am mimarTulebiT

yovelTvis arsebobda azer-

baijanTan pretenziebi. misi

azriT, iveri melaSvili da na-

talia iliCova saocnebo xe-

lisuflebam

politikuri

miznebisTvis daakava. ra skandalebs

unda velodoT „ocnebisgan”?

vis gamo Seiqmna daviT-

garejaSi problemebi? ra unda

qnas opoziciam? visi daxmare-

biT inarCunebs Zalauflebas

biZina ivaniSvili? _ am Temebis

Sesaxeb Tamar CxeiZe „qron-

ika+~-s esaubreba:

_ daviTgarejis Tema, jer

kidev, sabWoTa kavSiris periodSi

iyo aqtualuri. „qarTulma

ocnebam” is mxolod xe-

lisuflebaSi mosvlidan rva

wlis dasrulebis Semdeg Seni-

Sna. Tqven ras ukavSirebT am

TemiT maT dainteresebas?

_ erTi rame sruliad naTelia

_ „qarTuli ocnebis” gaaqtiureba

ar ukavSirdeba daviTgarejaze

zrunvas. daviTgarejis

teritoriis nawili rom

saqarTvelos sazRvrebs miRma

aRmoCnda, es yovelTvis iyo

Cveni sazogadoebis SeSfoTebis

sagani. garejis Tema gansakuTrebiT

„qarTuli ocnebis” xelisuflebaSi

yofnis dros gamwvavda.

erT weliwadze metia,

rac azerbaijaneli mesazRvreebi

qarTvel momlocvelebs garejaSi

mosalocad aRar uSveben.

amaSi maT qarTveli mesazRvreebic

uwyoben xels. am mimarTulebiT

situacia salome zurabiSvilis

gamosvlis Semdeg gamwvavda.

man Zalian provokaciuli

gancxadebebi gaakeTa da

Sedegmac ar daayovna.

_ amis gamo salome zurabiS-

vilisTvis „ocnebas” pasuxi ar

mouTxovia.

_ esec imaze miuTiTebs, rom

daviTgarejis Tema am xelisuflebas

ar ainteresebs. axla

dasWirdaT da gaaaqtiures.

efeqtis mosaxdenad daakaves

ori adamiani, romelic sademilitacio-sademarkacio

komisiis

muSaobaSi monawileobda.

natalia iliCovasa da iveri melaSvils

araferze aqvT xeli

mowerili da arc garejis Temazea

rame gadawyvetileba miRebuli.

am sakiTxis mogvareba

Zalian gaWianurda. is dRis wesrigSi,

jer kidev, komunistebis

dros idga. maSin saqarTveloc

da azerbaijanic erTi qveynis _

sabWoTa kavSiris _ SemadgenlobaSi

Sediodnen da es sakiTxi

ase mwvaved ar igrZnoboda. amis

miuxedavad, Cveni sazogadoeba

mainc SeSfoTebuli iyo, radganac

garejis nawili saqarTvelos

teritoriebSi ar Semodioda.

damoukideblobis mopovebis

Semdeg aqtiurad daiwyo am

mimarTulebiT muSaoba, mgram

sakiTxi dRemde mougvarebelia.

viTareba gansakuTrebiT am xelisuflebis

dros gamwvavda.

gaejis dakargvis safrTxe realurad

gamoikveTa.

daviTgarejiT daintereseba

da iliCovasa da melaSvilis dakaveba

31 oqtombris arCevnebs

ukavSirdeba. „qarTul ocnebas”

surda, erTgvari bombi gaexeTqa.

undoda, xalxi daerwmunebina,

rom gareja wina xelisuflebam

gadasca azerbaijans. me

am komisiis muSaobaSi monawileoba

ar mimiRia. Sesabamisad, ar

vici, sworad iyenebda Tu ara

qarTuli mxare rukebs. faqti

isaa, rom es teritoria azerbaijans

ar gadascemia. amas

„qarTuli ocnebac” ki ver amtkicebs,

radgan mas xelT ar aqvs

rame xelSesaxebi dokumenti.

_ amis miuxedavad, maT ori

adamiani daakaves.

_ am adamianebis dakaveba

saarCevnod bombis asafeTqeblad

dasWirdaT. bombi marTalia,

aafeTqes, magram bevrs veravers

miaRwies. isini, albaT,

ufro met efeqts elodnen. Sei-

Zleba iTqvas, rom operacia

daviTgareja Cavarda. teritoriis

gadacemis faqti ar

yofila da am sakiTxis irgvliv

bombis afeTqeba efeqtiani ver

iqneboda. axla es Tema Savi piaris

xasiaTs atarebs. oponentebis

gasaSaveblad Zalian

arahumanur meTods mimarTes _

ori adamiani udanaSaulod

gamoketes cixeSi. natalia ili-

Cova da iveri melaSvili „qocebis”

saarCevno kampaniis msxverpli

arian.

eWvic ar mepareba, rom am

yvelafris ukan ruseTi dgas.

amaSi Cveni sazogadoebac darwmunda.

yvela xvdeba, rom moskovs

surs Tbilissa da baqos

Soris situaciis gamwvaveba.

_ 2006 wels ruseTma gazsadeni

agvifeTqa. mas Semdeg saqarTvelo

azerbaijanuli gaziT

maragdeba. „gazpromma” araerTxel

scada aq Semosvla. ma-

TTan kalaZem wlebis winaT sai-

dumlo SeTanxmeba gaaforma.

garejis Temis gamwvaveba gazis

Temas xom ar ukavSirdeba?

_ samwuxarod, amasTan dakav-

SirebiT informirebuli ar var

da amitom ver visaubreb. rusebi

Cveni da azerbaijanis dapirispirebiT

rom dainteresebuli

arian, es aSkaraa. amaze metyvelebs

isic, rom garejis Temas

prorusuli Zalebi amwvaveben.

„patriotTa aliansi” da „qar-

Tuli marSi” ukve daufaravad

moqmedeben. maTi patriotizmi

absoluturad yalbia.

_ ratom migaCniaT maTi pa-

triotizmi siyalbed? ar aris

normaluri, adamianma Tavisi

qveynis teritoriebis okupa-

cia gaaprotestos?

_ es normaluria, magram ar

SeiZleba, rom okupacias mxolod

erTi mimarTulebiT

aprotestebde. „qarTuli mar-

Si” da „patriotTa aliansi”

rusebis mier qarTuli miwebis

okupaciaze arafers ambobs.

arada, moskovi yoveldRiurad

afarToebs okupaciis zonas.

Cveni viTom patriotebi amis

gamo srulebiT ar Relaven.

daviTgarejis Tema Zalian

mtkivneulia saqarTvelosTvis,

is aucileblad unda movagvaroT.

am sakiTxis mogvarebas vi-

Tom patriotebis aragulwrfeli

protesti xels ar Seuwyobs.

ruseTis mier dakveTili aqtivobebi

seriozul safrTxes

gviqmnis.

_ am Temis gaaqtiureba yarabaRSi

SeiaraRebuli konfliqtis

ganaxlebas daemTxva. sa-

varaudod, arc es unda iyos

ubralo damTxveva. Tqven ras

fiqrobT amis Sesaxeb?

_ es Tema axla SemTxveviT ar

gaaqtiurebula. Cveni xelisufleba

saxelmwifoebrivad rom

azrovnebdes, axla am Temas ar

gaamwvavebda. dRis wesrigSi

`teritoriis gadacemis faqti ar yofila da

am sakiTxis irgvliv bombis afeTqeba efeqtiani

ver iqneboda. axla es Tema Savi piaris xasiaTs

atarebs. oponentebis gasaSaveblad Zalian

arahumanur meTods mimarTes - ori adamiani

udanaSaulod gamoketes cixeSi. natalia

iliCova da iveri melaSvili `qocebis~

saarCevno kampaniis msxverpli arian~

daayenebda, magram sifrTxiles

daicavda. Cemi azriT, am Temis

gaaqtiureba moaxloebul arCevnebsa

da yarabaRis konfliqts

ukavSirdeba. sabednierod, azerbaijanis

mimarTulebiT vi-

Tarebis gamwvaveba moskovma ver

SeZlo. Cven mezoblebTan urTierTobaSi

sifrTxile unda gamoviCinoT,

amasTanave yvelaferi

unda gavakeToT, rom daviTgarejis

problema mogvardes.

am saqmeSi yalbi patriotuli

gancxadebebi ar gamogvadgeba.

_ yalbi patriotuli gacxadebebi

axseneT da daviTgare-

jaze motirlebs erTxel ar

dascdeniaT augi imis gamo,

rom rusebi okupirebul ter-

itoriebze qarTul kvals

Slian da arc eklesiebis ga-

nadgurebas eridebian.

_ am Temaze maTgan gancxadebebs

ar unda velodoT. gasakviri

is iqneba, amas Tu gaaprotesteben.

saqarTvelos xelisuflebasac

saintereso pozicia

ukavia. acxadebs, rac ar unda

moxdes, ruseTis gaRizianebas

unda moveridoTo. ivaniSvili

imasac ki ambobda, ver warmomidgenia,

rom ruseTs saqarTvelos

dapyroba surdeso.

_ aba, risTvis waiRo Cveni

teritoriebi?

_ ivaniSvils es arafrad miaCnia.

is dRemde saqarTvelos

adanaSaulebs 2008 wlis omis

dawyebaSi. xelisuflebaSi mosvlis

Semdeg erT-erTi pirveli

gancxadeba amasTan dakavSirebiT

gaakeTa. misi TqmiT, Turme,

rusebs araferi dauSavebiaT,

ubralod, raRac Wurvi gavarda,

man kedeli daangria da

qarTulma mxarem amis gamo daiwyo

omi.

_ am mxriv ra SesaSuri pozi-

cia ukaviaT Cvens mezobel

somxeTsa da azerbaijans. arc

erTgan da arc meoregan TavSi

azrad mosvliaT eTqvaT, omi

Tqven daiwyeTo.

_ amas arc ityvian. rasac

ivaniSvili da misi gundi agvistos

omTan mimarTebiT akeTebs,

es warmoudgenelia. rogor Si-

Zleba, Seni qveyana daadanaSaulo

omis dawyebaSi da okupanti

gaamarTlo?!

_ zemoT aRniSneT, rom garejis

Tema arCevnebs ukavSirde-

8 N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.


ocneba~ arCevnebamdec CamoiSleboda~

boda. es gegma CaeSalaT. kidev

unda velodoT maTgan msgavsi

tipis siurprizebs?

_ operacia daviTgareja Cavarda.

„qarTuli ocneba” amaze

did imedebs amyarebda, magram

molodini ar gamarTlda. axla

is sxva meTods gamoiyenebs. sxva

gegmac eqneba SemuSavebuli. ar-

Cevnebi rom maTTvis sasurveli

SedegiT dasruldes, yvelaferze

wavlen. gamoiyeneben administraciul

resurss, arc Zaladobasa

da amomrCevlis mosyidvas

moeridebian. rusuli faqtori

da ivaniSvilis zurgs

ukan mdgari putini rom ara, SeiZleba

iTqvas, „qarTuli ocneba”

arCevnebamdec ki ver mividoda.

_ ras niSnavs, arCevnebamde

ver mividoda?

_ imas, rom arCevnebamde ver

miaRwevdnen. didi xnis winaT

Caalagebdnen bargs da qveyanas

datovebdnen. samwuxarod, maT

zurgs umagrebs putini. rac

seriozul safrTxes gviqmnis.

_ amasTan dakavSirebiT

dasavleTi ukve didi xania,

gvafrTxilebs. aSS-is elCma

pirdapir Tqva, rom moskovi am

arCevnebSi Caereva.

_ sxva qveynebis saSinao saqmeebSi

Careva rusebisTvis Cveulebrivi

ambavia. kremli aqtiurad

ereva yvela im arCevneb-

Si, romelic misTvis mniSvnelovan

qveyanaSi tardeba. saqarTvelo

maTTvis metad sensitiuri

Temaa. Tan aq Careva maTTvis

did problemas ar warmoadgens.

imisTvis rom sasurvel Sedegs

miaRwion, saamisod ruseTs

saqarTveloSi didi berketebi

aqvs. ruseTis zraxvebis damuxruWeba

mxolod erT SemTxvevaSia

SesaZlebeli.

_ ra SemTxvevaSi?

_ sazogadoebisa da opoziciis

aqtiurobas SeuZlia ruseTisTvis

winaaRmdegobis gaweva.

arCevnebze dabali aqtivoba Tu

iqna, moskovi iolad miiRebs

imas, rac unda. maRali aqtivoba

Tu iqna, moskovs gauWirdeba.

aseve saWiroa saTanado suliskveTeba,

daaxloebiT iseTi,

rogoric nika melias wardgenis

dros iyo. opozicias erTad

dgomiT SeuZlia aseTi suliskveTebis

Seqmna. aseTi suliskveTeba,

Tavis mxriv, arCevnebze gamarjvebas

moitans.

_ nika melias wardgenaze

mTeli opozicia iyo Tavmoy-

rili. mixvdnen, rom mxolod

erTad dgomiT gaimarjveben.

Tu nika melias faqtoris gaTv-

aliswinebiT mividnen iq? nika

melia opoziciaSi yvelas uy-

vars.

_ es aqtiuroba da suliskve-

Teba didwilad nika melias

pirovnebasTan iyo dakavSirebuli.

sxva kandidatebi, SeiZleba,

aseTi sayovelTao simpaTiiT ar

sargeblobdnen, magram politikosebi

arian da unda SeZlon

pirad grZnobebze maRla dadgoma.

CemTvis kategoriulad mi-

`garejis Temas prorusuli Zalebi amwvaveben. `patriotTa aliansi~ da

`qarTuli marSi~ ukve daufaravad moqmedeben. maTi patriotizmi

absoluturad yalbia~

uRebelia is dapirispireba, romelic

opoziciis SigniT arasasurveli

formebiT iCens xolme

Tavs. sxva SemTxvevaSi gansxvavebuli

azris arseboba misaRebia.

_ Tqven am gansxvavebul

azrSi problemas ver xedavT?

_ veranairad. es piriqiT,

misasalmebelia. gansxvavebuli

azri unda arsebobdes, is unda

gamoiTqvas, magram Seuracxmyofeli

formiT misi gamoxatva

miuRebelia.

_ yvelaze metad ra ar mog-

wonT opoziciaSi?

_ pirvel rigSi is, rom zogierTi

opoziciuri partia saakaSvilsa

da ivaniSvils erT konteqstSi

ganixilavs. am ori adamianis

erTmaneTTan gaigiveba

araswori da arasamarTliania.

_ ivaniSvili vaxseneT da mis

prognozebze minda gkiTxoT.

ambobs, rom arCevnebSi 63%-is

aReba SeuZliaT. amaze ras

fiqrobT, aqvs „qarTul oc-

nebas” amxela mxardaWera?

_ gamoricxulia, ra 63%?!

saqarTveloSi normaluri arCevnebi

rom tardebodes, isini

xelisuflebis SenarCunebaze

arc ki ifiqrebdnen. ruseTis

zurgi rom ara, saqarTvelodan

didi xnis winaT iqnebodnen abargebulebi.

63%-iani mxardaWera

xalxSi ar gaaCniaT, magram

Sansi aqvT, rom marTla aseTi

Sedegi dadon. ivaniSvils mTlad

haerzec ar gaukeTebia es

gancxadeba. rodesac is am procentebze

saubrobda, im berketebze

fiqrobda, romelic

„qarTuli ocnebis” xelSia. samwuxarod,

Zalian bevri berketia

ivaniSvilis xelSi.

_ wina interviuSi miTxariT,

„ocneba” gaaormagebs im procentebs,

rasac arCevnebze mi-

iRebso.

_ axlac am azrze var. eWvi ar

mepareba, rom am partias hyavs

mxardamWerebi da isini xmas miscemen

„qarTul ocnebas”. sinamdvileSi,

Tu 25% miiRes, cesko

50%-s dawers. 30%-s Tu miiReben,

60% daewerebaT. „qarTuli

ocneba” mxolod Tavisi

momxrebis imedze ar aris. maTi

`qarTuli marSi~ da `patriotTa aliansi~

rusebis mier qarTuli miwebis okupaciaze

arafers ambobs. arada, moskovi yoveldRiurad

afarToebs okupaciis zonas. Cveni viTom

patriotebi amis gamo srulebiT ar Relaven~

mTavari dasayrdeni terori da

gayalbeba iqneba. arc administraciuli

resursi unda daviviwyoT.

administraciul resurss

yvela xelisufleba Tavis

sasargeblod iyenebs.

_ vis an ris imedzea opozi-

cia? albaT, dasavleTis,

romelic arCevnebis gayalbe-

bas ar Seegueba.

_ kargia, amerika da evropa

rom arsebobs. dasavleTi mniSvnelovani

da gadamwyveti faqtoria,

magram arCevnebis mosagebad

sxva faqtorebic saWiroa.

erTianoba da iseTi suliskveTebaa

saWiro, rac, vimeoreb,

nika melias wardgenaze iyo.

_ yuradRebis miRma ar unda

dagvrCes Cvens samezobloSi

mimdinare SeiaraRebuli konfliqti.

dapirispireba yarabaRSi

saqarTveloze rame gav-

lenas xom ar iqoniebs?

_ aravin icis, ra moxdeba am

konfliqtSi da prognozis gakeTeba

CemTvis rTuli iqneba.

erTSi Rrmad var darwmunebuli,

rom saqarTvelo Zalian

frTxilad unda iyos. minimumze

unda daiyvanos riskebi. arafriT

unda davuSvaT, rom konfliqtSi

CagviTrion.

_ pirveli konfliqtis

dros saqarTvelo mSvidad

gamoZvra am situaciidan. aq

mcxovreb somxebsa da azer-

baijanelebsac ki ar mosvliaT

Cxubi erTmaneTSi.

_ axlac ase unda moviqceT.

am konfliqtSi aranairi formiT

ar unda CaverioT. yvelam

unda ifrTxilos _ xelisuflebamac

da opoziciamac.

_ opozicias yarabaRisTvis

ar scxela, erTmaneTis lanZR-

viT aris dakavebuli.

_ sawyenia, rom erTmaneTis

mimarT aseTi damokidebuleba

aqvT. gansakuTrebiT miuRebelia,

roca saakaSvils ivaniSvilTan

aigiveben. saakaSvils ivaniSvilTan

is xalxi aigivebs, visTan

erTadac miSa 9 weli xelisuflebaSi

iyo. vimeoreb: mis

mimarT aseTi pretenziebi usamarTlobaa.

_ isev winasaarCevno skanda-

lebs davubrundebi. Tqveni azriT,

cixis kadrebis msgavsi videoebi

xom ar gamoiyreba? garejis

skandalma ar gaamarT-

la.

_ ver getyviT, xelisuflebis

SesanarCuneblad „qarTuli

ocneba” yvelafers ikadrebs.

ara mgonia, rame seriozuli kadrebi

hqondeT, Torem aqamdec

gamofendnen. es imas ar niSnavs,

rom raRacas ver iSovian. rame

Tu CauvardaT xelSi, aucileblad

gamoiyeneben.

_ amas opoziciam ra unda

daupirispiros?

_ pirvel rigSi, erTianoba.

kidev erTxel miwevs nika melias

wardgenis gaxseneba. samwuxarod,

yvela kandidati opoziciis

sayovelTao siyvaruliT

ar sargeblobs. amis miuxedavad,

opoziciam unda moaxerxos

da erTad dadges. opoziciam

mSvidoba unda SeinarCunos, magram

amis paralelurad temperaturac

mkveTrad awios.

_ Tan mSvidoba SeinarCuno

da Tan temperatura awio, es

rogor gamova?

_ mondomebis SemTxvevaSi gamova.

temperaturis awevaSi destabilizaciis

Seqmnas ar vgulisxmob.

maT xalxSi gamarjvebis

gancda unda gaaCinon. xelisuflebas

ufleba ar unda miscen,

rom arCevnebi ZaladobaSi

gadaizardos. amis mcdeloba

aucileblad iqneba. aq marto

opozicia verafers gaxdeba, xalxis

aqtiurobac saWiroa. rac

ufro meti xalxi miva arCevnebze,

miT naklebi iqneba Zaladoba

da gayalbeba. darCenil dro-

Si opoziciam xalxamde erTi

Zalian martivi mesiji unda miitanos.

xalxi isedac xedavs, rom

raRacis Secvlaa saWiro. opoziciam

es gancda kidev ufro unda

gaumZafros, yvela cvlilebebisTvis

unda emzadebodes. opoziciam

unda icodes, rom ganwyoba

winaswar gansazRvravs ar-

Cevnebis Sedegs. xalxSi Tu masobrivad

damkvidrda azri, rom

am arCevnebSi marTlac moxdeba

cvlileba, aseT SemTxvevaSi opoziciis

gamarjvebis Sansebi Zalian

izrdeba. rogorc valutis

kursze axdens gavlenas molodini,

aseve axdens gavlenas

molodini arCevnebis Sedegzec.

xalxis fsiqika asea mowyobili,

rom roca is xelisuflebis gamarjvebas

elodeba, SeiZleba,

arc iyos xelisuflebis momxre,

magram mainc mas misces xma. molodins

didi mniSvneloba aqvs.

es molodini opoziciam unda

gaaCinos.

_ raki ambobT, rom opoziciam

unda gaaCinos molodin-

io, e. i. xalxi ar elodeba

opoziciis gamarjvebas?

_ am kiTxvaze pasuxi CemTvisac

saintereso iqneba. me xalxis

ganwyobaze saubari mxolod

imis mixedviT SemiZlia, rasac

televizorSi vuyureb. Tavad

xalxis ganwyobis Sesaswavlad

ver movicale.

N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.

9

aqve, SegaxsenebT, rom ros-

tom CxeiZis da, nato CxeiZe,

romelic politikuri moZrao-

ba „saxelmwifo xalxisTvis”

politikuri lideria, „Zala

erTobaSias” saxeliT, maJori-

tarad xaSuris, qarelisa da

goris soflebis nawilSi iyris

kenWs. amasTan, nato CxeiZe, ba-

toni rostomis msgavsad, „Zala

erTobaSias” proporciul sia-

Sicaa...

_ batono rostom, simarTle

giTxraT, verasodes warmovidgendi,

rom partiul siaSi gix-

ilavdiT. politikaSi wasvla

ratom gadawyviteT?

_ yofiTi realoba TviTonve

gkarnaxobs, TviTonve gibiZgebs

da giyoliebs, Tu rogor moiqce.

araerTxel miTqvams, mwerlobaze

didi politika rom ar

arsebobs, magram mwerlobis,

literaturis zegavlena cxovrebiseul

procesebze farulia,

idumali, droSi gaxangr-

Zlivebuli, sabolood didi

sikeTis momtani, sulierebas

rom unarCunebs kacobriobas,

amaRlebul, romantikul ganwyobilebebsa

da swrafvas. magram

aris cxovrebiseuli problemebi,

saswrafo gadawyvetas rom

moiTxovs. arada, saswrafos vin

Civis, Zalian da Zalian gagvi-

Wianurda maTi mogvareba. am

satkivar-sawuxarze araerTxel

gamomiTqvams Cemi mosazrebani

da mowesrigebis gzebic damisaxavs,

magram vera da ver miaRwia

maT yuramde, romelTac

unda miexedaT.

axla ki, Tu yvelaferi bunebrivad

da logikurad warimar-

Ta da avcildebiT gaugebrobebs,

anu xelisufleba Seegueba

garduval marcxs arCevnebSi

da aRar Seecdeba qarTveli xalxis

moTxovnebisa da dasavluri

sazogadoebrivi azris winaa-

Rmdeg wasvlas, rac maTve gaur-

Tulebs mdgomareobas... diax,

Tu yvelaferi Sesaferisad warimarTeba

da arCevnebi ukeTes

pirobebs Seqmnis axali parlamentisa

da mTavrobis saqmianobisTvis,

es problemebi ukve Cemi

da Cems TanamoazreTa misaxedi

iqneba da is, rac furclebze

aRibeWdeboda publicistur

statiad, literaturul-esTetikur

essed Tu dokumentur

prozad, amieridan kanonebad

Camoyalibdeba da yofiT cx-

10


`gadamwyveti Jami dgeba kriminaluri

arian adamianebi, romelTa azrs,

giorgi abaSiZe

piradad CemTvis, gansakuTrebuli

mniSvneloba aqvs. simarTle rom

giTxraT, aseTebiT ganebivrebulebi ar varT, magram mwerali

rostom CxeiZe swored imaT ricxvSia, romelTac yovelTvis

siamovnebiT vusmen. ise, baton rostoms mxolod me ki ara,

mTeli qveynis inteleqtualuri sazogadoeba ugdebs yurs. hoda,

albaT, yvelas ainteresebs, ratom gadawyvita literaturis

metrma politikaSi wasvla da saparlamento arCevnebSi enm-„Zala

erTobaSias” saarCevno siiT monawileoba? Cems respondents es

kiTxva, cxadia, davusvi da bunebrivia, isic vkiTxe, „naciona-

lur moZraobas” apatia Tu ara yvelaferi is, ris gamoc wlebis

winaT mis mimarT pretenzia hqonda? erTi sityviT, bevri lapar-

akiT Tavs aRar SegawyenT da pirdapir mweral rostom CxeiZis

intervius SemogTavazebT, intervius, saidanac, bevr saintereso

ambavTan erTad, imasac SeityobT, Tu ratom avlebs paralels

irakli RaribaSvilsa da lavrenti berias Soris.

rostom CxeiZe:

òcnebis~ partiac

male iseve ukvalod

gagviqreba, rogorc,

Tavis droze, _

`moqalaqeTa

kavSiri~

ovrebaSic gadmoinacvlebs.

ilia WavWavaZemac, romelic

didxans mxolod garedan uyurebda

partiebis arsebobas da miiCnevda,

rom redaqtoroba da

saadgilmamulo bankisa Tu wera-kiTxvis

gamavrcelebeli sazogadoebis

Tavmjdomareoba

srul saSualebas aZlevda moRvaweobisa

da sazogadoebrivi

procesebis warmarTvisTvis,

aRmoaCina, rom upartiod araferi

gamovidoda, is zegavlena

veRar eqneboda qveynis cxovrebaze,

rac manamde hqonda, vidre

partiebi damkvidrdebodnen

saqarTveloSi da kidec moindoma

erovnul-demokratiuli

partiis Seqmna im iakob gogebaSvilTan

erTad, romelsac manamde

aseve ver warmoedgina, Tu

odesme partiul saqmianobaSi

gaereoda. saxelmwifo saTaTbiroSi

Sesvlasac amitom miiCnevda

aucileblad ilia. saer-

Tod ki gabriel garsia markesisa

ar iyos: „iqac Cveulebisamebr

vapireb vemsaxuro Cems

qveyanas da ara _ Cemi qveynis

mTavrobas”.

_ samarTlianobisTvis am

kiTxvasac dagisvamT: Tavis

droze, „nacionalebis” opozi-

ciaSi iyaviT, axla ki im blokis

proporciul siaSi xarT, romlis

xerxemalic swored yo-

fili mmarTveli partiaa. anu

yvelaferi is, ris gamoc adre

akritikebdiT, „nacionalebs”

apatieT?

_ patieba-arpatieba piradulic

arsebobs da saxelmwifoebrivi

TvalTaxedviTac. SemiZlia

yvelas mivutevo piradi wyena

da tkivili, Tuki es saxelmwifoebrivadaa

aucilebeli.

amasTan, erTia kritikuli, Tumca

mZafri kritikuli damokidebuleba

ama Tu im politikur

gaerTianebasTan da meore

misi sruli miuRebloba, sruli

SeuTavsebloba.

partia, romelic amJamadaa

moqceuli saqarTvelos saTave-

Si, imdenad araswori gziT midis

(nebsiT Tu uneburad, es

kidev calke Temaa!), iseT umZimes

dReSi Caagdo qveyana da

TandaTanobiT ise migvezideba

rusuli mavTulxlarTebisken,

ase gagrZeleba srul daRupvamde

da ganadgurebamde migviyvans.

aucilebelia cvlileba,

haeriviT, sasicocxlod aucilebeli!

da yvelaze Zlieri

gaerTianeba, romelsac SeuZlia

arCevnebis gziT, mxolod da

mxolod, arCevnebis, demokratiuli

da mSvidobiani gziT,

daamarcxos „qarTuli ocneba”,

„nacionaluri moZraobaa”, daamarcxos

da xeli Seuwyos koaliciuri

mTavrobis Seqmnas, rac

ase aucilebelia amJamindel

sazogadoebriv-politikur vi-

TarebaSi da riTac erTpartiuli

mmarTveloba dasruldeba.

amitomac TavisTavad vimyofebi

„nacionaluri moZraobis”

saarCevno siaSi, raTa Cveni wvlili

SevitanoT qveynis sasike-

To cvlilebebSi.

_ rodis mixvdiT, rom „oc-

neba” qveyanas angrevs?

_ SetyobiT Tavidanve Seetyo

„ocnebis” mTavrobas, yvelaferi

rigze rom ver midioda da

es iyo ara uniaTobisa da gamoucdelobis

brali, aramed im

borotganzraxulobisa, ramac

mTeli sisavsiT iCina Tavi say-

`saydrisi ki uRmerTod gaiwira da amaSi

CarTuli aRmoCnda kulturis saministro,

romelmac saydriss istoriuli Zeglis

statusi mouxsna, ZeglTa dacvis sammarTvelom

ki, romelsac evaleba unikaluri istoriuli

saunjis Senaxva-mofrTxileba, gaagrZela es

estafeta da... afeTqebis aqti uSualod vin

Seasrula, es ukve naklebmniSvnelovania~

drisis afeTqebaSi, Tavisebur

simbolodac rom daadga ocnebelTa

saqmianobas, rac arsebi-

Tad yurmoWrili monis fusfusia

biZina ivaniSvilis brZanebebis

aRsasruleblad. im danaSauls

Tavis drozeve gamovexmaure

kritikuli statiiT: „drois

ieroglifebi”, rodesac pirdapiri

paraleli gavavle imJamindel

premier-ministr irakli

RaribaSvilsa da komunisturi

partiis centraluri komitetis

pirvel mdivan lavrenti

berias sityvebs Soris.

rodesac igi apirebda aefe-

Tqebina metexis taZari da mweralTa

da xelovanTa delegacia

eaxla TxovniT, es ar Caedina,

man miugo: es adgili mWirdeba,

metexis msgavssa da kidev ukeTess

taZars ki sxva adgilas agiSenebTo!..

da irakli RaribaSvilic

amasve Sehpirda sazogadoebas:

amisTanasa da kidev uke-

Tess Txrils sxvagan gagiTxriT,

es adgili ki Zalian gvWirdebao.

metexis taZari maSin mainc

gadaurCa afeTqebas.

saydrisi ki uRmerTod gaiwira

da amaSi CarTuli aRmoCnda

kulturis saministro,

romelmac saydriss istoriuli

Zeglis statusi mouxsna, Zegl-

Ta dacvis sammarTvelom ki,

romelsac evaleba unikaluri

istoriuli saunjis SenaxvamofrTxileba,

gaagrZela es estafeta

da... afeTqebis aqti

uSualod vin Seasrula, es ukve

naklebmniSvnelovania.

_ batono rostom, gasagebia,

rom xalxs „ocneba” ar moswons

da xelisuflebis Secvla unda,

magram xedavs im Zalas, romelmac

arsebuli mmarTveli gun-

di unda Caanacvlos?

_ xedavs, rogor ar xedavs.

xalxSi isedac yovelTvis miwevda

triali, qalaqad Tu

soflad, mTel saqarTveloSi

literaturuli da sazogadoebrivi

Sexvedrebisas da axla,

rodesac vmonawileob nato CxeiZis

saarCevno kampaniaSi, xaSuris,

qarelisa da goris soflebis

erTi nawilis areals rom

moicavs, kidev ufro gacxovelda

es urTierToba.

adamianebi ara marto moelian

aucilebel cvlilebebs,

aramed swored „nacionalur

moZraobaSi” xedaven im mTavar

Zalas, romelsac SeuZlia gansazRvros

opoziciis garduvali

gamarjveba 31 oqtombers,

Taviseburi mijna da wyalgamyofi

rom unda aRmoCndes

dRevandel unugeSo, ukan-ukan

mimaval yofasTan.

_ ise, imis nacvlad, rom

opozicias „ocnebaze” saerTo

ieriSi mietana, erTmaneTs ekinklaveba.

ai, magaliTad, „evropuli

saqarTvelo” mosaxle-

obas pirdapir mouwodebs, rom

arc „qocebs” misces xma da arc

_ „nacebs”. Tqven, rogorc mw-

erali, ras fiqrobT, opozicia

erTmaneTs ratom ebrZvis?

_ pasuxi SekiTxvaSive igulisxmeba.

rogor SeiZleba, opoziciuri

partia meore opoziciur

partias utevdes da ara _

xelisuflebas, Tanac rogor

10 N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.


xelisuflebis Camosacileblad!~

xelisuflebas yoveli dRe misi

mmarTvelobisa katastrofasTan

rom gvaaxloebs?! rogor Sei-

Zleba, biZina ivaniSvilis reJimis

SenarCuneba-gaxangrZlivebaze

zrunavde nebsiT Tu uneblieT

da Tan evropul orientaciaze

sdebde Tavs, Tu qveynisTvis

saSiS, saxifaTo TamaSSi

ar Cabmulxar?! ar minda,

davijero... mirCevnia vifiqro,

rom es mainc arasaxelmwifoebrivi

azrovnebis brali ufroa!

_ Tqveni azriT, am

arCevnebze mixeil saakaSvilis

aqtiurobas gadamwyveti mniS-

vneloba aqvs Tu ara?

_ mesmis, rasac gulisxmobT

aqtiuroba yovelTvis ar amarTlebs

da xan SesaZloa uku-

Sedegic gamoiRos, miT umetes,

rodesac „ocnebis” xelisufleba

mTeli es wlebia, amiT aSinebda

xalxs: Cven Tu ar viqnebiT,

mixeil saakaSvili da „nacionaluri

moZraoba” dabrundeba

qveynis mmarTvelado.

Tavidan am TvalTmaqcurma

manevrma, am triukma kidec gaumarTlaT

xalxma 2012 wlis ar-

CevnebSi mmarTvelobidan rom

gaistumra „nacionaluri moZraoba”,

cxadia, mis maleve dabrunebas

sulac ar uWerda mxars,

magram wlidan wlamde ise

gakotrda „ocnebis” mTavroba

(marto pirad gamdidreba-gazuluqebas

ar vgulisxmob, rasakvirvelia!),

ise daamSia da cxovrebis

saxsari mouspo adamianebs,

mere sulac saqarTvelodan

rom migverekeba, Tvals ukve

viRas aubams? miT umetes, mas

Semdeg, rac zaza oquaSvilma

saqveynod amxila biZina ivaniSvilis

reJimi da mTavroba, rogorc

korumpirebuli da kriminaluri,

biznesis dakabalebasa

da qveyanaSi Semosuli investiciebis

xelSi Cagdebasac rom

lamobdnen, sulis amoxdas biznesmenebisTvis,

aramcTu maT-

Tvis bunebrivi pirobebis Seqmnas

daqceuli ekonomikisa da

wyalwaRebuli soflis meurneobis

asaRorZineblad, raTa

saqarTvelom srulfasovan

qveynad igrZnos Tavi da ara _

danamatad Crdiloeli mezoblisa,

romlis mavTulxlarTeb-

Si isedac movqceulvarT da Tu

raimeTi, Zlieri ekonomikiTa da

soflis meurneobiTac unda

davupirispirdeT da ara _ kapitulanturi

politikiT.

am axal realobaSi, 2018 wlis

seqtembridan rom Sevida qveyana,

mixeil saakaSvilis aqtiurobas

ukve sxva Zala da mas-

Stabi eqneba. gadamwyveti Jami

dgeba kriminaluri xelisuflebis

Camosacileblad mmarTvelobidan

da yvela Rirseulma

da keTilSobilma adamianma

amisaTvis Tavisi wvlili unda

gaiRos yvela moqalaqe, 18

wlis zemoT, unda mivides saarCevno

yuTebTan, raTa xelisuflebas

gayalbebis naklebi sa-

Sualebani davutovoT.

_ sxvaTa Soris, enm-„Zala

erTobaSias” sia bevrs ar moe-

`SetyobiT Tavidanve Seetyo òcnebis~ mTavrobas, yvelaferi rigze rom ver

midioda da es iyo ara uniaTobisa da gamoucdelobis brali, aramed im

borotganzraxulobisa, ramac mTeli sisavsiT iCina Tavi saydrisis afeTqebaSi,

Tavisebur simbolodac rom daadga ocnebelTa saqmianobas, rac arsebiTad

yurmoWrili monis fusfusia biZina ivaniSvilis brZanebebis aRsasruleblad~

wona. gulaxdilad miTxariT,

siis yvela wevri, piradad

TqvenTvis, misaRebia?

_ mowoneba-armowoneba iseTi

ramaa, yovlad warmoudgenelia,

yvela mogwondes an yvelas moswonde,

rogori Rirseuli pirovnebac

unda iyo, rogori keTilSobilebiT

aRsavsec. mTavaria

is gezi, suliskveTeba, idea,

riTac ganmsWvalula es gaer-

Tianeba, evropul orbitaze saqarTvelos

damkvidrebas rom

eswrafvis, im istoriuli adgilis

dabrunebas, odesRac rom

gvqonda da amitomac ar gagviZneldeba

dasavleTTan gaer-

Tianeba ukeTesi saqarTvelosaTvis

gzebis gasaxsnelad.

_ ra iqneba rostom CxeiZis

mTavari funqcia parlamentSi?

_ Cemi upirvelesi mizani sxva

ra SeiZleba iyos parlamentSi

moxvedris SemTxvevaSi, Tu ara

zrunva kulturis erovnuli

koncefciisa da ganaTlebis erovnuli

koncefciis SesamuSaveblad

da mis yofiT cxovrebaSi

dasamkvidreblad, uromlisodac

TviT yvelaze saukeTeso

da momxiblav Teoriebsac araviTari

fasi ar gaaCnia.

nu metyviT, gramatikulad

sjobda ase geTqvaT: kulturisa

da ganaTlebis erovnuli

koncefciebio.

isedac erTmaneTs awebeben

gaumarTleblad da ager sulac

kulturis saministros gareSe

dagvtoves... da dae vicodeT,

rom es ori sfero sruliad

damoukidebelia da erTmaneTis

daqvemdebarebulni ar SeiZleba,

iyvnen.

mwerals CvenSic iseT pativs

rom miagebdes xelisufleba,

`Tvals ukve viRas aubams? miT umetes, mas

Semdeg, rac zaza oquaSvilma saqveynod amxila

biZina ivaniSvilis reJimi da mTavroba,

rogorc korumpirebuli da kriminaluri,

biznesis dakabalebasa da qveyanaSi Semosuli

investiciebis xelSi Cagdebasac rom lamobdnen,

sulis amoxdas biznesmenebisTvis, aramcTu

maTTvis bunebrivi pirobebis Seqmnas daqceuli

ekonomikisa da wyalwaRebuli soflis

meurneobis asaRorZineblad, raTa saqarTvelom

srulfasovan qveynad igrZnos Tavi da ara -

danamatad Crdiloeli mezoblisa, romlis

mavTulxlarTebSi isedac movqceulvarT~

ise usmendes da iTvaliswinebdes

mis Sexedulebebs, rogorc,

vTqvaT, did britaneTSi usmendnen

Carlz dikenss mis roman

„nikolas niklbis” kvalobaze,

iq gamoTqmuli kritikuli

SeniSvnebisa, sruliad rom

Secvlidnen ganaTlebis sistemas

da marTlac, axal safexurze

aiyvandnen, diax, aseT pativs

rom mogvagebdnen, aRarc

dasWirdeboda mwerals parlamentaris

mantia, isedac yurad

iRebdnen mis rCevebsa Tu

gonivrul SeTavazebebs. magram

axla ra Tavisi gziT miedineboda

mweralTa mcdelobani

Tund ganaTlebis, Tund kulturis

erovnul koncefciaTa SesamuSaveblad

da calkea TviTdinebaze

miSvebuli ganaTlebis

sistema, kultura rom aRarc

moCans am qarboriaSi.

_ batono rostom, am kiTx-

vas yvelas vusvam da Tqvenc

dagisvamT: vTqvaT, ise moxda,

rom „ocnebam” demokratiis

yvela principi daarRvia da xelisuflebaSi

mesame vadiT darCenac

gadawyvita, aseT SemTx-

vevaSi, opozicia ras izams?

_ aseT SemTxvevaSi opozicias

xelis gamoReba, maincdamainc,

ar dasWirdeba, radganac

xalxi TviTonve ityvis im saTqmels,

rac garduvalia demokratiis

yvela principis darRvevisas.

miT umetes, rom dasavluri

sazogadoebrivi azri mxars

uWers cvlilebis aucileblobas

saqarTvelos mmarTvelobaSi

da kidec araerTxel

gaafrTxiles biZina ivaniSvilic

da misi mTavrobac, obieqturobis

sazRvrebs rom ar gadascdnen

arCevnebisas... isini

ki, Cveni dasavleli megobrebi,

sityvebs tyuilubralod ar

xarjaven.

_ biZina ivaniSvils rom Sex-

vdeT, ras etyviT da hkiTxavT

mas?

_ SekiTxva ritorikuli iqneba:

ratom agvifeTqeT sulieri

saydrisi da ratom mogviwyveT

sisxliani kalo 20 ivnisis im

sabediswero Rames?

_ saTqmeli mixeil saakaS-

vilTan ra gaqvT?

_ ra da: kargia, rodesac esa

Tu is piri inaniebs Secdomebs,

kargia, rodesac aRiarebs gadacdomebs,

kritikulad gahyurebs

Tavis gamovlil cxovrebas

da gadafasebiT araerT raimes

gadaafasebs. es TviTaRiareba

imeds giCens rogorc am piris,

ise saerTodac adamianis

mimarT.

_ ratom daemsxvra xalxs

ocnebebi?

_ dagemsxvreva, aba, ra iqneba,

rodesac axali partia modis

qveynis saTaveSi uxvze uxvi dapirebebiT,

srul keTildReobas,

miwier samoTxes rom aRgiTqvams

da... keTildReobas

vinRa Civis, srul gaRatakebamde,

srul kolafsamde mihyavxar.

Tanac gauTaveblad gimtkicebs,

saukeTeso xelisufleba

varT, bedniereba mogitaneT, Tu

Cveni mowinaaRmdege televiziebis

kritikas ar ahyvebiT...

ise ki Tu saqarTvelos datovebT

da ucxoeTSi waxvalT

samuSaos saZieblad, matareblis

bileTebi Cvenze iyoso.

abuCadac rom gigdeben!..

_ mwerali xom garemoebis

sayviria da dRes xalxis mTavari

saTqmeli, gnebavT, moTx-

ovna, ra aris?

_ xalxis mTavari saTqmeli,

xalxis mTavari moTxovna „ocnebis”

xelisuflebisagan Tavis

daRwevaa, radganac am reJimis

pirobebSi yovlad warmoudgenelia

Tund erTi, erTader-

Ti sasikeTo saqmis aRsruleba.

_ ise, batono rostom, komunistebis

dros samarTliano-

bisTvis brZola ufro rTuli

iyo Tu axla?

_ didi ram gansxvaveba ar aris

am or politikur reJims Soris,

SeiZleba iTqvas, rom tyuilebis

masStabebiT erTmaneTis

alikvalia orive yalbismqnelobiT,

moZaladeobiT, korumpirebulobiT,

saRi azris devniT,

ciliswamebis qarxnebis energiuli

moqmedebiT, xalxis

samarTliani moTxovnebis ignorirebiTa

Tu cinikuri damokidebulebiT.

komunistebsac egre

egonaT, Cvens Zalauflebas

veraferi Searyevso, magram namsxvrevebad

iqca maTi Tavdajereba

TviT im sazogadoebrivpolitikur

realobaSi, msoflios

rom azanzarebdnen... da

Cveni xalxis damsxvreul ocnebebs

male Seemateba „ocnebis”

mTavrobis damsxvrevac, mTavrobisa,

romlis masazrdoebeli

partiac male iseve ukvalod

gagviqreba, rogorc, Tavis droze,

„moqalaqeTa kavSiri”...

_ bolos, batono rostom,

iqneb, eri daberda da yve-

laferi is, rac bolo dros

gvWirs, amitom gvWirs?

_ magas nu ityviT, ra sibere

da romeli sibere, miTosuri

faskunjiviT maradganaxlebulobiT

rom gamovirCeviT, galaktionisa

ar iyos, qarTvel-

Ta modgmis xangrZlivobas asec

rom Sehxaroda: Seni simaRle

siaxle orbiso...

N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.

11

vin Seadgina im politikuri

Zalis saparlamento sia, romelsac

pretenzia mTavar opoziciur

Zalaze aqvs? _ paata daviTa-

ia „qronika+”-sTan eqskluziur

interviuSi ambobs, rom blokis

wesdebiT, siis Sedgenaze pasux-

ismgebeli

„nacionaluri

moZraobaa”, anu ufro gasagebad

rom vTqvaT, sia „nacionalebma”

daakompleqtes.

ra niSniT Seiyvanes „nacebma”

zemoxsenebul siaSi, magaliTad,

batoni oqriaSvili, _ am kiTxvaze

pasuxis gacema paata davi-

Taias ar SeuZlia, Tumca gveub-

neba, swored imitom, rom

garkveuli kiTxvebi gaCndeboda,

siaSi Caweraze uari vTqvi da

amiT politikuri pasuxismge-

bloba avirideo.

erTi sityviT, „qronika+~-is

mkiTxveli eqskluziurad Seity-

obs, rogor daiwera e. w. mTavari

opoziciuri partiis proporci-

uli sia da amasTan, paata daviT-

aia imasac agvixsnis, somxeT-aze-

rbaijanis ganaxlebulma konfliqtma

ra roli SeiZleba Seasru-

los saqarTvelos okupirebuli

teritoriebis dabrunebaSi:

_ batono paata, nika melias

wardgenaze iyaviT?

_ ara.

_ ratom?

_ amomrCevelTa xmebisa da

Stabis saqmeebiT var dakavebuli,

anu ofiss vawesrigeb _ amdeni

partiis teqnikuri sakiTxebi

Cemzea gadmorTuli.

_ am StabSi ra funqcia gaqvT?

_ Tavmjdomare var... erTi sityviT,

mTlianad am Temebze var

gadarTuli.

_ keTili, magram erT-erT

gazeTSi Tqveni komentari vnaxe,

sadac ambobT, „Zala erTobaSias”

proporciuli sia mTlianad „nacionalurma

moZraobam” daakompleqta

da pretenzia arc mqo-

nia, siaSi vyofiliyavio...

_ pretenzia ki ara, siaSi Caweraze

uari me Tavad vTqvi.

_ ratom?

_ amas martivi mizezi aqvs: im

saarCevno blokis damfuZnebeli

var, romelic xuTi subieqtisgan

Sedgeba.

blokis wesdebiT, sias „nacionaluri

moZraoba” akompleqtebda

da roca siaze pasuxismgeblobas

ar iReb, anu siis xelmomweri

ar xar, siaSi Cawerazec uari

vTqvi. es Cemi principuli pozicia

iyo, anu siasTan dakavSirebiT

politikur pasuxismgeblobas

ver gaviziareb, Tumca weRandeli

12


`Zala erTobaSias~ sia

marTalia, yofili xelisufleb-

giorgi abaSiZe

is maRalCinosnebi da Tavad qvey-

nis mesame prezidenti, mixeil

saakaSvilic, darwmunebulia, rom enm-„Zala erTobaSias” propor-

ciuli sia gamarjvebis sawindaria, magram am siis gamoqveynebas

sazogadoebaSi bevri miTqma-moTqma mohyva. garda imisa, rom sa-

zogadoebam ver axsna, momRerali buba kikabiZe siis pirveli

nomeri ra principiT gaxda, kiTxvis niSnebi imanac gaaCina, rom

siaSi ramdenime iseTi adamiani, romelic wlebia, „nacmoZraobis”

mxardamxar ibrZvis, saerTod araa. ai, magaliTad, saparlamento

siaSi ver naxavT „evropeli demokratebis” lider paata daviTa-

ias, romelic „Zala erTobaSias” Seqmnis saTaveebTan idga.

Tqmisa ar iyos, blokis damfuZnebeli

da wevri var, Sesabamisad,

partia saparlamento partia xdeba,

oRond parlamentSi deputati

ar eyoleba.

_ anu Tqvens partias parla-

mentSi warmomadgeneli ar

eyoleba, magram sabiujeto da-

finansebas mainc miiRebs, ara?

_ diax.

_ SeiZleba, es vinmem sxvanairad

gaigos da Tqvas, ai, biu-

jetidan marto fuli undaT da

meti araferi ainteresebTo...

_ ase araa.

_ aba, rogoraa?

_ rogorc naxeT, siasTan

dakavSirebiT bevri kiTxvis niSani

gaCnda. is kiTxvis niSnebi, romelic

axla arsebobs, SeiZleba, siis

Sedgenis dros Cem mimarTac gaCeniliyo.

_ batono paata, siaSi rom

yofiliyaviT, dagisabuTebT,

Tqven mimarT kiTxvebi ratom ar

gaCndeboda: „Zala erTobaSias”

erT-erTi damfuZnebeli xarT.

sxvaTa Soris, ori wlis winaT,

roca es erToba Seiqmna, maSindelma

damfuZneblebma memoran-

dums sajarod moawereT xeli da

TqviT, rom saparlamento

arCevnebze erTiani siiT gamox-

vidodiT. hoda, Riad visaubroT:

dRes siaSi bevr gaurkvevel

adamianebs vxedavT, Tqven ki

siis miRma xarT. amis gamo Tavs

Seuracxyofilad ar grZnobT?

_ am SekiTxvis arsi mesmis da

politikurad gipasuxebT: siaze

politikuri pasuxismgebloba

swored im gancdis gamo ar aviRe,

rac Tqven gaqvT.

pirdapir getyviT, rom siaSi

garkveuli nomeric mqonda, magram

uari vTqvi. sul esaa, risi

Tqmac am etapze SemiZlia...

saerTod, amomrCevelma unda

gadawyvitos, uRirs Tu ara, rom

am sias xma misces.

_ rogorc amomrCeveli, ras

fiqrobs paata daviTaia, nacionaluri

moZraobis sia gamarjve-

bis siaa?

_ giTxariT da kidev geubnebiT:

am siaze politikuri pasuxismgebloba

ar amiRia. siaSi

swored amitomac ar var. am Temas

metad ver CavuRrmavdebi!..

_ neba Tqvenia, magram erT

kiTxvas mainc dagisvamT: Tqveni

azriT, „nacmoZraobas” ra

amoZravebda, roca „Zala erTo-

baSias” proporciul siaSi igive

oqruaSvil-CoCels werda?

_ roca bloki fuZndeboda,

saubari imaze iyo, rom kaxa oqriaSvilis

partia Semovidoda da

isini maJoritarobis kandidatebi

iqnebodnen, magram mere, aRmoCnda,

rom es adamianebi mxolod

maJoritarobis kandidatebi

ki ara, siaSic arian.

aqedan gamomdinare, kidev erTxel

gavimeoreb, rom siasTan

dakavSirebiT politikur pasuxismgeblobas

ver aviRebdi.

._ batono paata, wlevandeli

arCevnebi erTob uCveulo vi-

TarebaSi tardeba _ koronobas

Tavi rom davaneboT, saqarTve-

lodan 200 kilometrSi saomari

moqmedebebi mimdinareobs. yvelafer

amis, ufro sworad, epid-

viTarebis dramatulad damZimebis

gamo, zogi arCevnebis gada-

debas eWvobs. am azrs Tqvenc xom

ar iziarebT?

_ ar mgonia, arCevnebi gadaidos.

_ epidemiologebi ar gamor-

icxaven, rom TbilisSi mkacri

SezRudvebi dawesdes...

_ geTanxmebiT, rom SeiZleba

xelisufleba aseT manipulaciaze

wavides.

_ ufro konkretulad?

_ albaT, gaxsovT, rom jandacvis

Sesaxeb kanonSi garkveu-

paata daviTaia:

`putini faSianians

maxes umzadebs da

mis absolutur

kontrolqveS

ayvanas an

Canacvlebas

cdilobs~

li cvlilebebi Sevida, romli-

Tac jandacvis saministros

ufleba aqvs, daaxloebiT, iseTi

RonisZiebebi gaataros, rogoric

sagangebo viTarebis dros tardeba.

amaze, Tavis droze, opoziciam

erTi ambavi atexa, magram

vfiqrob, SesaZlebelia, rom

mkacr SezRudvebTan dakavSirebuli

muxlebi amuSavdes, anu ar

gamovricxav, rom im raionebSi,

sadac „ocnebas” saarCevno problemebi

aqvs, jandacvis „specRonisZiebebi”

gaataros. es manipulacia

iqneba, magram amis miuxedavad,

ar mgonia, rom arCevnebi

saerTod CaiSalos.

_ epidviTarebas Tavi rom

davaneboT, regioni, praqtikulad,

denTis kasrze zis _ somxeT-azerbaijanis

sabrZolo moqmedebebi

ar wydeba da ager, kaxeTis

or sofelSi upiloto sa-

freni aparatebic Camovarda...

_ es Zalian seriozuli problemaa,

romelic mxolod arCevnebs

ar exeba. diax, Cvens samezobloSi

farTomasStabiani omi midis

da imis safrTxe, rom amis

gamo viTareba garkveulwilad

CvenTanac daiZabos, arsebobs.

àr gamovricxav, rom im raionebSi, sadac

òcnebas~ saarCevno problemebi aqvs, jandacvis

`specRonisZiebebi~ gaataros. es manipulacia

iqneba, magram amis miuxedavad, ar mgonia, rom

arCevnebi saerTod CaiSalos~

yvelafers Tavi rom davaneboT,

Cvens qveyanaSi Zalian bevri eTnikuri

somexi da azerbaijaneli

cxovrobs.

_ diax, eTnikuri somxebi da

azerbaijanelebi saqarTvelos

saerTo mosaxleobis, Tu ar

meSleba, 10 procents Seadgenen...

_ amis gamo SesaZloa, garkveuli

daZabuloba Seiqmnas da, sxva-

Ta Soris, mxolod saqarTvelos

ar vgulisxmob.

_ aba, kidev romel qveyanas

gulisxmobT?

_ im qveynebs, sadac eTnikuri

somxebi da azerbaijanelebi bevrni

arian, Tumca darwmunebuli

var, saqarTveloSi mcxovreb am

ori erovnebis warmomadgenlebs,

qarTvelebis msgavsad, goniereba

eyofaT da gaiTvaliswineben, rom

saqarTvelo maTi samSoblocaa.

aqedan gamomdinare, saqarTvelos

nebismier moqalaqes, erovnebis

miuxedavad, pativiscemiT moekidebian.

_ saqarTveloSi mcxovrebi

eTnikuri somxebi da azerbaijan-

elebi gonivrulad ki iqcevian,

magram yvelafris Tavi da Tavi

mainc ruseTia.

_ diax, asea, magram yvelafer

amas cota sxva kuTxiT daganaxvebT.

_ mainc, rogor?

_ sainteresoa, rom ruseTi

azerbaijanis mimarT, praqtikulad,

neitraluria da es maSin,

roca aqamde Riad somxeTis mxares

iWerda.

_ amas riT xsniT, batono paa-

ta?

_ konfliqturi teritoriebi

yovelTvis mainteresebs da amitomac

garkveuli kuluaruli

informacia maqvs, anu ruseTi

rom neitraluri iyos, azerbaijanis

Zalisxmeva didia. garda

amisa, meore, aranakleb saintereso,

faqtoric arsebobs: putins

faSiniani maincdamainc gulze

ar exateba.

_ es cnobilia, Tumca amas

winaT faSinianma ganacxada, saqme

saqmeze rom midges, kremli

somxeTis poziciebs gaamyarebso.

_ faSiniansa da putins erTmaneTi

gulze rom ar exatebaT,

es maSinac gamoCnda, roca faSin-

12 N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.


`nacmoZraobam~ daakompleqta!~

ianma putinis Zmakacebi cixeSi

Casva. axla ki koCariani da sxvebi

gaaTavisufles.

amasTan, putinma pirdapir ganacxada,

am konfliqtSi ruseTi

im SemTxvevaSi Caereva, Tu sabrZolo

moqmedebebi somxeTis

teritoriaze gadavao. yarabaxi

somxeTis teritoriad araa aRiarebuli

da amitomac ruseTi am

sabrZolo moqmedebebSi Riad ar

ereva, Tumca me Tu mkiTxavT,

putini sxva TamaSs TamaSobs, anu

is cdilobs, rom faSiniani daasustos

da amiT an Tavisi mona

gaxados, an somxeTis xelisuflebaSi

isev sakuTari saZmakaco

daabrunos. Tu faSinianma yarabaRi

dakarga, konfliqti romc

gaCerdes, amas faSinianis winaaRmdeg

somxeTSi afeTqeba mohyveba.

aseT SemTxvevaSi ki revanSs isev

is Zalebi aiReben, romelTac putini

akontrolebs. sxvaTa Soris,

am Zalebis warmomadgenlebs mxolod

fuli ki ar aqvT, yvela

maTgani yarabaRSia da Tu konfliqti

SeCerda, amas Tavad miiweren.

erTi sityviT, putini faSianians

raRac maxes umzadebs da

mis absolutur kontrolqveS

ayvanas an Canacvlebas cdilobs.

sxvaTa Soris, yoveldRe velodebi,

rom rusebi situacias raRacnairad

„buTqaven”.

_ anu?

_ somxeTis mxares daiWeren.

saerTod, movlenebi Zalian sainteresod

viTardeba, rac CvenTvisac

yuradsaRebia.

_ batono paata, Tqveni azriT,

somxeT-azerbaijanis konfliqti

saqarTveloze ra gavlenas iqo-

niebs an ra doziT Segvexeba?

_ yuradRebas gavamaxvileb

teritoriuli mTlianobis aRdgenis

kuTxiT.

_ simarTle giTxraT, ver vx-

vdebi, saubari saiTken migyavT...

_ Cvenc igive problemis winaSe

vdgavarT, anu Cveni teritoriuli

mTlianoba aRsadgenia. saerTod,

dRes dadga momenti, roca

ruseTis maimunobiT dakarguli

teritoriebis dabruneba SeiZleba.

_ rogor?

_ ise ar gamigoT, rom okupirebul

teritoriebTan dakav-

SirebiT Cven rames vapirebT, magram

odesme es sakiTxi aucileblad

dadgeba.

_ diax, dadgeba, magram ro-

dis?

_ ramdenime dRis win azerbaijanma

is wyalsacavi daibruna,

romelsac 34 weli ver akontrolebda.

es wyalsacavi yarabaRis

teritoriazea da mas somxeTi

akontrolebda. amitomac azerbaijanis,

mimimum, 7 raions mudmivad

wylis problema hqonda. am

wyalsacavis dabrunebas mTeli

zeimi mohyva, radgan xalxs miwebis

morwyvis saSualeba mieca.

sxvaTa Soris, am faqtze saerTa-

Soriso reagirebamac ar daayovna.

_ yvelaferi es gasagebia, ma-

gram imas, rom azerbaijanma sami

aTeuli wlis Semdeg wyalsacavi

àr minda, am wuTas vinmem damabralos, ra dros omiao, magram Tu

saerTaSoriso samarTliT azerbaijanma teritoriuli mTlianoba sabrZolo

moqmedebebiT aRidgina da amas mkveTri reaqcia ar mohyva, maSin vsvam

kiTxvas: afxazeTic da cxinvalic, igive saerTaSoriso samarTliT,

saqarTvelos nawilia. aqedan gamomdinare, mainteresebs, teritoriuli

mTlianobis Zaladobrivi gegmiT aRdgenas winaaRmdegobas vin gauwevs? Cven

gvesmis, rom am teritoriebs ruseTi mSvidobianad ar dagvibrunebs~

daibruna, Cvens dakargul da

okupirebul teritoriebTan ra

kavSiri aqvs?

_ erTi wamiT warmovidginoT,

rom galis an oCamCiris teritoriaze

davbrundiT, sadac wyalqveSa

samxedro bazaa da es baza

saqarTvelos Tavdacvis saministros

gadaeces.

_ Tqvens pirs Saqari, batono

paata...

_ mokled, imis Tqma minda,

saintereso somxeT-azerbaijanis

konfliqti ki ara, teritoriuli

mTlianobis aRdgenis procesia,

anu xazs imas vusvam, rom yvelaferi

is, rac axla mezobel saxelmwifoebSi

xdeba, CvenTvis Sesa-

Zloa, gakveTili iyos.

N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.

_ mainc, risi gakveTili?

_ samarTlebrivad, politikurad

da, gnebavT, piarulad

rogor unda vimoqmedoT.

_ maSasadame, zogi Wiri margebeliasi

ar iyos, somxeT-azerbaijanis

ganaxlebuli konfliqti

CvenTvis SesaZloa, dakargu-

li teritoriebis dabrunebis

winapiroba gaxdes?

_ ar minda, Cemi naTqvami vinmem

omisken mowodebad aRiqvas.

saerTod, amaze laparaki ar merideba,

magram ar minda, am wuTas

vinmem damabralos, ra dros omiao,

magram Tu saerTaSoriso samarTliT

azerbaijanma teritoriuli

mTlianoba sabrZolo moqmedebebiT

aRidgina da amas mkve-

`faSiniansa da putins erTmaneTi gulze rom ar

exatebaT, es maSinac gamoCnda, roca faSinianma

putinis Zmakacebi cixeSi Casva. axla ki koCariani

da sxvebi gaaTavisufles. amasTan, putinma

pirdapir ganacxada, am konfliqtSi ruseTi im

SemTxvevaSi Caereva, Tu sabrZolo moqmedebebi

somxeTis teritoriaze gadavao. yarabaxi

somxeTis teritoriad araa aRiarebuli da

amitomac ruseTi am sabrZolo moqmedebebSi

Riad ar ereva, Tumca me Tu mkiTxavT, putini

sxva TamaSs TamaSobs, anu is cdilobs, rom

faSiniani daasustos da amiT an Tavisi mona

gaxados, an somxeTis xelisuflebaSi isev

sakuTari saZmakaco daabrunos~

Tri reaqcia ar mohyva, maSin vsvam

kiTxvas: afxazeTic da cxinvalic,

igive saerTaSoriso samarTliT,

saqarTvelos nawilia.

aqedan gamomdinare, mainteresebs,

teritoriuli mTlianobis Zaladobrivi

gegmiT aRdgenas winaaRmdegobas

vin gauwevs? Cven gvesmis,

rom am teritoriebs ruseTi

mSvidobianad ar dagvibrunebs.

_ sxvaTa Soris, alievsac

swored es pozicia aqvs, anu misi

TqmiT, samSvidobo procesma

Sedegi ver moitana da amitomac

oficialurma baqom yarabaRi

Zalismieri meTodiT unda

daibrunos.

_ ise, Tu daakvirdiT, safrangeTsa

da sxva qveynebs, romlebmac

gancxadeba gaakeTes, alievi,

ase vTqvaT, ar gahyva, anu alievi

sakuTari dRis wesrigiT moqmedebs.

sxvaTa Soris, yarabaRi

azerbaijanisTvis wlebis ganmavlobaSi

nomer pirveli problemaa

da es nebismieri kvleviTac

dasturdeba. saqarTveloSi ki

afxazeTi da cxinvali mervexarisxovani

problemaa, anu kvlevebSi

wina planze umuSevroba da

sxva raRacebia.

mokled, imisTvis, rac axla

somxeT-azerbaijans Soris xdeba,

azerbaijani ideologiuradac

emzadeboda.

saqarTvelosTan mimarTebiT

CemTvis saintereso swored es

gzaa. vinaidan es problema aseT

ideologiur doneze idga, dRes,

roca sabrZolo moqmedebebi mimdinareobs,

xom xedavT, veravin

verafers ambobs. ai, CemTvis esec

magaliTia.

erTi sityviT, minda, Cvens

problemebsac swored am kuTxiT

SevxedoT da ise aravin gaigos, ai,

daviTaia ambobs, aba, axla „davgazoT”

da dakarguli teritoriebi

iaraRiT davibrunoTo.

_ batono paata, kidev erTx-

el davakonkretoT: is, rac

somxeT-azerbaijans Soris axla

xdeba, erTi mxriv, cudia, magram

meore mxriv, SesaZloa, kargic

iyos, radgan yvelaferi es prostsabWoTa

qveynebisTvis dakargul-okupirebuli

teritorieb-

is dabrunebis precedenti

gaxdes, ara?

_ diax. ai, naxeT, rogori momentia:

gaeros rezoluciaSi

pirdapir weria, rom somxeTs azerbaijanis

teritoria okupirebuli

aqvs. rac Seexeba afxazeTsa

da cxinvals, gaeros rezoluciebSi

ar gvxvdeba, rom ruseTs

saqarTvelos teritoriebi okupirebuli

aqvs.

_ anu dasavleTi soxumisa da

cxinvalis okupacias ar aRi-

arebs?

_ es Canaweri evrosabWos rezoluciebSi

gvxvdeba. sxvaTa

Soris, azerbaijanTan dakavSirebiT

gaeros rezolucia 90-ian

wlebSi, anu maSinaa miRebuli,

roca yvelaferi es daiwyo...

saerTod, erTia dokumenti,

meore ki is, am dokuments rogor

iyeneben. Cvens SemTxvevaSi, dokumentis

gamoyenebis amuSavebazea

laparaki, magram, samwuxarod,

Cven aseTi politika gvaqvs _

ruseTi rom ar gavaRizianoT,

amitom araferi unda vTqvaTo.

sxvaTa Soris, gvarsa da saxels

ar davasaxeleb, magram ramdenime

dRis win erT-erTi qveynis elCs

Sevxvdi da sityva afxazeTze Camovarda.

hoda, vuTxari, afxazeT-

Si saxli mqonda, romelSic axla

siriis warmomadgenlobaa gaxsnili-meTqi.

elCma mkiTxa, _ qiras

gixdiano? gamikvirda, ra qirazea

laparaki, es teritoria okupirebulia-meTqi.

mokled, amiT imis Tqma minda,

rom msgavss kiTxvas yarabaRze

aravin dasvams. is, rom aseT kiTxvas

gvisvamen, Cveni bralia!

_ batono paata, vTqvaT, az-

erbaijanma yarabaRi daibruna,

magram 31 oqtombers saqarTvel-

oSi xelisufleba ar Seicvala.

aseT SemTxvevaSi, yarabaRis precedenti

CvenTvis mainc sain-

tereso iqneba?

_ Zalian sworad dasmuli ki-

Txvaa, magram ar minda, populisturad

gipasuxoT. Cven TviTon

ar viciT, ra gvinda. es Temebi

maSin daiZreba, roca CamovyalibdebiT

da gvecodineba, ra gvinda.

azerbaijani didi xania, Camoyalibebulia

da icis, rac unda.

_ hoda, imisTvis, rom CamovyalibdeT,

ra gvinda, xelisu-

flebis Secvla aucilebelia?

_ okupirebul sakiTxebTan

dakavSirebiT am xelisuflebas

oponirebas Riad vuwev, Tumca

wina xelisuflebasTanac zustad

igive pretenziebi mqonda.

_ ratom?

_ mimaCnia, rom amdeni daTmoba

ar SeiZleba. sistema unda SemuSavdes,

ra gvinda da win mxolod

aseT SemTxvevaSi wavalT,

magram axlandel xelisuflebas

mxolod is unda, rom okupirebul

teritoriebTan dakavSirebiT

aravin Seawuxos. es politika ki

ararealuria. samwuxarod, CvenTan

ukve gaizardnen Taobebi, romlebmac

konfliqtis arsi ar ician,

rac kidev erTi problemaa.

13


`yvelaze kargi iqneba, opoziciac da

susis ufrosis yofili moadg-

Sorena marsagiSvili

ile, odiozuri soso gogaSvili,

599 92 16 22

mmarTvelma partiam moiZula. mo-

Zulebuli gogaSvili im partias

daemuqra mxilebiT, romlis wyalobiTac milioneri gaxda. mas

susis ufrosis moadgilis posti karga xans ekava. Sesabamis-

ad, bevrze moagrovebda kompromatebs. kompromatebi mis

winaaRmdegac mravlad arsebobs. mravalkompromatiani gogaS-

vili pirobas debs, rom imaTze mogvawvdis informaciebs, vinc

dRes qveyanaSi dRis wesrigs qmnis.

samoqalaqo aqtivisti kaxa

miqaia fiqrobs, rom susis

ufrosis yofilma moadgilem

biZina ivaniSvili gaafrTxila

da mas kompromatebiT daemuqra.

miqaia ambobs, rom gogaSvili

ivaniSvilze ganawyenebulia,

radganac misi miTiTebiT

gaagdes is partiidan. samoqalaqo

aqtvisti darwmunebulia,

rom gogaSvili marto ar

aris da mas „ocnebaSi” viRacebi

uWeren mxars.

visi zurgiT emuqreba soso

gogaSvili biZina ivaniSvils?

gadaagdebs Tu ara „ocneba”

liders navidan? ras daams-

gavsa susis ufrosis yofilma

moadgilem „qarTuli ocneba”?

ratom aris opozicia sasaci-

lo? _ amis Sesaxeb kaxa miqaia

„qronika+~-s esaubreba:

_ „qarTuli ocnebidan” wasulma

soso gogaSvilma brZo-

lis axali etapis dawyeba

daaanonsa. ambobs, rom arc

erT partiaSi ar wava da imaT

mxilebas daiwyebs, vinc dRes

qveyanaSi dRis wesrigs qmnis.

Tqven misi es gancxadeba

aRiqviT, rogorc ivaniSvilis

gafrTxileba da ar gamoricx-

eT, rom gogaSvili SeiZleba

ivaniSvilis winaaRmdegi wav-

ides. es ubralo varaudia, Tu

raime konkretul informacias

efuZneba?

_ pirdapir getyviT, rom

soso gogaSvili „qarTuli ocnebidan”

gaagdes. mas ar Sexvedria

biZina ivaniSvili da ar

uTqvams, warmatebebs gisurvebo.

faqti aris erTi: susis

ufrosis yofilma moadgilem

„qarTuli ocnebis” mxileba

daiwyo. man socialur qselSi

daweril postSi gviTxra, rom

maRalCinosnebze informaciebs

agrovebs da SemdgomSi amas sazogadoebas

gaacnobs. amas bozoba

hqvia da sxva araferi.

_ bozoba ratom hqvia, dam-

naSave Tu aris maRalCinosani,

is ar unda amxilos vinmem?

_ soso gogaSvils isini aqamde

rom emxilebina, amas yvela

miesalmeboda, magram axla misi

mxridan dawyebuli mxileba aris

bozoba. man Tavis postSi pirdapir

Tqva, rom „qarTuli

ocneba” savsea „nacionalebidan”

portirebulebiT. man yvelaferi

daadastura, razedac

aqamde sazogadoeba saubrobda.

is susis ufrosis moadgile

iyo da bevri rame icis. is xelmZRvanelobda

„nacionalebidan”

„ocnebaSi” xalxis portirebas.

_ Tavadac xom „nacionalebidan”

gadmoportirda „oc-

nebaSi”?

_ Tavadac portirebuli iyo

da amitom Caibara portirebis

procesi. man kargad icoda, Tu

vin vin aris. masTan erTad „nacionalebidan”

„ocnebaSi” xalxis

portirebas dito samxaraZec

axorcielebda.

_ dito samxaraZe „qarTul-

ma ocnebam” saarCevno siaSi

Casva, Tanac gamsvlel adgil-

as.

_ soso gogaSvili swored

amitomac aris aseTi gabrazebuli.

gabrazebul gulze man

bozoba daiwyo. Tavis postSi

susis ufrosis yofilma moadgilem

„qarTuli ocneba” „bozebis

ocnebad” gamoacxada.

amas sruli seriozulobiT geubnebiT.

_ sanam gogaSvili mmarTvel

partias „bozebis ocnebas”

uwodebda, „qarTulma oc-

nebam” bevr yvela gagebis bozs

auxdina ocneba.

_ bozebis ocnebebis axdenis

xanaSi vcxovrobT. ra gasakviria,

„ocnebamac” rom auxdina

bozebs ocnebebi.

_ bozebi yvela droSi ix-

dendnen ocnebebs. aseTi

gamoTqmac xom aris, brZolas

gmirebi ewirebian, paradi ki

bozebs mihyavT.

_ asea da ras vizamT?! rac

Seexeba gogaSvilisa da ivaniSvilis

Sexvedras, meeWveba, rom

aseTi ram momxdariyos. gogaSvils

sul erTi-orjer eyoleba

ivaniSvili nanaxi.

_ mmarTvel partiaSi

rogor aRmoCnda es adamiani?

_ soso gogaSvili „qarTul

ocnebaSi” ivaniSvilis garemocvam

moiyvana. amave garemocvam

daniSna is susis ufrosad.

oficialurad es posti gomelaurs

ekava, magram susis faqtobrivi

ufrosi soso gogaSvili

iyo. man dito samxaraZesTan

erTad „ocneba” „nacebiT”

aavso. am Sedegs momaval-

Si piradad moimkis ivaniSvili.

_ partiis „nacebiT” gavseba

dito samxaraZes ratom miute-

va „qarTulma ocnebam”?

_ „qarTul ocnebaSi” politikuri

bozoba grZeldeba da

viRacam xom unda gauwios

meTvalyureoba am process? amitom

ar miayoles samxaraZe

gogaSvils.

_ Tqven ivaraudeT, rom is

biZina ivaniSvils daupirispirdeba.

gabedavs amis ga-

keTebas? marTalia, man bevrze

bevri rame icis, magram misi

sawinaaRmdego kompromatebic

aqvT.

_ kompromatebi orive mxares

aqvs. gogaSvili iseve gabedavs

ivaniSvilis winaaRmdeg

wasvlas, rogorc imis dawera

gabeda socialur qselSi, rom

amxels im adamianebs, vinc dRes

qarTul politikaSi aminds qmnis.

amiT susis ufrosis yofili

moadgile Riad daemuqra

ivaniSvils.

_ ratom ggoniaT, rom is

„ocnebis” liders daemuqra?

mxolod is qmnis dRis wesrigs

qarTul politikaSi?

_ saqme is aris, rom dRes

qarTul politikaSi erTi adamiani

qmnis dRis wesrigs da es

ivaniSvilia. politikur aminds

verc gaxaria da kalaZe qmnian,

verc dito samxaraZe. CiCilakis

klasters saerTod aravin

arafers ekiTxeba. aminds verc

„imedSi” gamoWimuli briyvi

nika laliaSvili qmnis. am

frontze arc nika gvaramias

gamosdis rame. TamaSgare aris

darCenili mixeil saakaSvilic.

kaxa miqaia:

`soso gogaSvili

ivaniSvils

kompromatebis

gamoqveynebiT

daemuqra~

amindis Seqmna mxolod ivaniSvils

SeuZlia. soso gogaSvilma

Riad mianiSna, rom is ivaniSvils

daartyams. aq ibadeba mTavari

kiTxva, _ rogor bedavs

amas soso gogaSvili da vin

dgas mis zurgs ukan? is

damoukideblad amas ver gabedavs.

mas viRac seriozuli

persona umagrebs zurgs.

_ Tqveni azriT, vin dgas

gogaSvilis ukan?

_ „qarTul ocnebaSi” arsebuli

erT-erTi dajgufeba. seriozuli

mxardaWeris gareSe

is ver gabedavda imas, rac gabeda.

„qarTuli ocnebidan”

misi gamogdeba mikroafeTqebis

Sedegia. vnaxoT, ra moxdeba momavalSi.

_ soso gogaSvilis xelSi

iqneba uamravi saidumlo in-

formacia. is videokadrebsac

wamoiRebda susidan. arCevnebis

win raime skandaluri vid-

eos gavrcelebas xom ar unda

velodoT?

_ winaswar Znelia imis Tqma,

ra iqneba. soso gogaSvilis qme-

`susis ufrosis yofilma moadgilem `qarTuli

ocnebis~ mxileba daiwyo. man socialur

qselSi daweril postSi gviTxra, rom

maRalCinosnebze informaciebs agrovebs da

SemdgomSi amas sazogadoebas gaacnobs. amas

bozoba hqvia da sxva araferi~

debebidan gamomdinare arafers

gamovricxav. minda, kargad

daimaxsovros Tqvenma mkiTxvelma,

rom soso gogaSvili

aris pirwavardnili „naci”. Tan

Cveulebrivi „naci” ki ara, „naci”

zonderi gaxlavT. is iyo

zurab adeiSvilis Sniris, gogita

papaSvilis „odeeri”. axla

Tavad warmoidgineT, ra donesTan

gvaqvs saqme.

_ Tqven „ra donesTan gva-

qvs saqmeo”, iZaxeT da ki iyo

es kaci ramdenime weli susis

ufrosis moadgile.

_ mec magas ar vCivi, rom ase-

Ti donis kaci hyavdaT susis

ufrosad?! „qarTulma ocnebam”

da biZina ivaniSvilma aravis

araferi daabralon, Tu rame

moxda. gogaSvilis gaTavxedebaze

piradad ivaniSvilia pasuxismgebeli.

mexorce da adeiSvilis

Sniris „odeeri” susSi

rogor unda SeuSva, ar mesmis?!

„ocnebam” mas susi mTlianad

Caabara.

_ ufrosi gomelauri iyo da

es rogor marTavda suss?

_ rbilad rom vTqvaT, vaxtang

gomelaurze arasdros

mqonia kargi warmodgena. Sesabamisad,

masze arafers vityvi.

susis ufrosi realurad soso

gogaSvili iyo, romelic axla

Riad emuqreba „qarTul ocnebas”

da biZina ivaniSvils.

_ zemoT miTxariT, rom

„qarTuli ocneba” bozebiT

aivsoo. bozebi da virTxebi

CasaZirad ganwiruli navidan

pirvelebi xtebian xolme. unda

velodoT Tu ara bozebis ma-

sobriv gaqcevas?

_ rogorc ki safrTxes igrZnoben,

maSinve gaiqcevian. am

etapze navSi mSvidad sxedan.

isini xedaven, rom opozicia

araa iseTi Zlieri, „qarTul

ocnebas” rame problema Seuqmnas.

opozicia Tu gaZlierda,

maSinve daiwyeba masobrivi gadaskupeba.

biZina ivaniSvili

navis amara darCeba.

_ navi Tu dautoves, madlo-

ba unda Tqvas ivaniSvilma.

_ arc isaa gamoricxuli,

rom Tavad biZina gadaagdon

navidan.

_ sadRac ase ufro jobia,

14

14 N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.


umravlesobac ruseTs SeeSvebodes~

imdeni kacis gadaskupebas,

erT adamians gadaagdeben da

morCeba es ambavi.

_ gaaCnia, rogor ganviTardeba

movlenebi. navis CaZirvis

safrTxe Tu igrZnes, biZinas

gadagdebasac ar moeridebian.

jer opozicia aseT safr-

Txes ver qmnis da navSic mSvidad

sxedan.

_ Tqveni saubridan gamom-

dinare Tu vimsjelebT, ar

gjeraT, rom opozicia rames

Secvlis?

_ ra unda Secvalon? maTi

qmedebebi mxolod Rimils

iwvevs. yvelaze sasacilo mainc

miSaa. magis sigiJeebs kacma Rimilis

gareSe rogor unda Sexedos?

_ miSas garda sxva Zalebic

xom arian opoziciaSi?

_ arian, magram, ZiriTadad,

mainc miSas klasteria. maT me

seriozulad ar vuyureb.

_ gindaT TqvaT, rom maT

arCevnebze aranairi Sansebi ar

aqvT?

_ vin giTxraT, rom Sansebi

ar aqvT? „qarTuli ocneba”

iseT sibriyveebs sCadis, rom

arCevnebze gamarjveba SeiZleba,

sasacilo opozicias darCes.

arCevnebamde iseTi raRacebi

SeiZleba moxdes, rom ramis

gamoricxva SeuZlebelia.

sasacilo opoziciidan da

briyvi „qarTuli ocnebidan”

bevrad seriozul Temaze gadaval:

cota xnis winaT saqarTveloSi

amerikis SeerTebuli

Statebis elCma keli degnanma

Zalian seriozuli gancxadeba

gaakeTa. amerikelma diplomatma

Riad isaubra imaze, Tu ra

SeiZleba moimoqmedos Cvens

arCevnebze ruseTma. moskovisgan

yvelaferia mosalodneli.

me ar vici, ra formiT imoqmedeben,

magram eWvi ar mepareba,

rom arCevnebSi Caerevian.

Zalian frTxilad unda viyoT.

seriozuli riskebis winaSe vdgavarT.

aq SeiZleba situacia

airios.

_ am areulobas SeiZleba,

gogaSvilma rame formiT Seu-

wyos xeli?

_ ratomac ara.

_ es, albaT, im SemTxvevaSi

moxdeba, Tu is sasacilo

opoziciis mxares gadava Tavi-

si kompromatebiT.

_ soso gogaSvils sadme gadasvla

ar sWirdeba. is yovel-

Tvis iyo sasacilo opoziciis

agenti „qarTul ocnebaSi”.

rogorc TavSi ukve giTxariT,

man bevri „naci” gadmoaportira

„ocnebaSi”.

_ e. i. Tqven ar gagikvirde-

baT gogaSvilis opoziciaSi

xilva?

_ ara. me is ufro mikvirda,

ra undoda mexorces susis ufrosad?

_ gogaSvilis saxels bevri

cudi saqme da sibinZure ukav-

Sirdeba. opozicias ar Sercx-

veba, Tuki is maT gverdiT

dadgeba?

`saqme is aris, rom dRes qarTul politikaSi erTi adamiani qmnis dRis wesrigs

da es ivaniSvilia. politikur aminds verc gaxaria da kalaZe qmnian, verc dito

samxaraZe. CiCilakis klasters saerTod aravin arafers ekiTxeba. aminds verc

ìmedSi~ gamoWimuli briyvi nika laliaSvili qmnis. am frontze arc nika

gvaramias gamosdis rame. TamaSgare aris darCenili mixeil saakaSvilic. amindis

Seqmna mxolod ivaniSvils SeuZlia. soso gogaSvilma Riad mianiSna, rom is

ivaniSvils daartyams. aq ibadeba mTavari kiTxva, - rogor bedavs amas soso

gogaSvili da vin dgas mis zurgs ukan? is damoukideblad amas ver gabedavs. mas

viRac seriozuli persona umagrebs zurgs~

_ amasTan dakavSirebiT

opozicias imuniteti aqvs, gogaSvilTan

gaerTianeba namdvilad

ar SercxvebaT. maT TavianT

rigebSi susis ufrosis

yofil moadgileze uaresi xalxi

miiRes.

_ vin aris soso gogaSvilze

uaresi?

_ sadac kaxa oqriaSvili da

cezar CoCeli miiRes, iq gogaSvilsac

gauReben kars. es

erTi kategoriis xalxia.

_ arc CoCeli da arc oqri-

aSvili dadebiTi personebi ar

arian, magram gogaSvils orive

maTgani sjobs.

_ CemTvis ar sjobs.

_ ranairad?

_ isini „nacebi” iyvnen. xelisuflebaSi

„qarTuli ocnebis”

mosvlis Semdeg ivaniSvilis

partiaSi gadabargdnen. rogorc

zemoT mogaxseneT, „nacebis”

portirebas „ocnebaSi” gogaSvili

da samxaraZe axorcielebdnen.

erTi tendencia TvalSi

sacemia, „nacebi” „ocneba-

Si” myof Tavisianebs nel-nela

ukan ibruneben.

_ Tbilisis meri da „ocneb-

is” erT-erTi lideri, kaxa

kalaZec, erT dros „nacebis”

nebiera iyo. netav, masac xom

ar daibruneben?

_ gamoricxuli araferia,

`cota xnis winaT saqarTveloSi amerikis

SeerTebuli Statebis elCma keli degnanma

Zalian seriozuli gancxadeba gaakeTa.

amerikelma diplomatma Riad isaubra imaze, Tu

ra SeiZleba moimoqmedos Cvens arCevnebze

ruseTma. moskovisgan yvelaferia mosalodneli~

„qarTuli ocneba” portirebuli

„nacebiT” aris savse. isini

nel-nela ubrundebian dedapartias.

_ biZina ivaniSvili wlebis

manZilze „nacebs” afinansebda

da erT dResac igives survili

Tavadac ar gauCndes.

_ biZina ivaniSvilis gadasvla

„nacionalur moZraobaSi”

magari saintereso ambavi iqneboda.

_ isev seriozul Temebze

gadavideT. TqviT, rom ruse-

Ti arCevnebSi Caerevao. Cvens

samezobloSi omi midis da

yarabaRis konfliqtSi xom ar

aRmovCndebiT CaTreulebi?

_ ara mgonia, rom am konfliqtSi

CagviTrion. ruseTs

am etapze sxva miznebi amoZravebs.

is 31 oqtombris arCevnebzea

koncentrirebuli. vnaxoT,

rogor dasruldeba maTi

Careva. keli degnanis gancxadeba

ar iyo SemTxveviTi. imedia,

poziciac da opoziciac sa-

Tanadod afaseben mosalodnel

safrTxeebs.

_ amerikis elCma am Temaze

gancxadeba raki gaakeTa, es

imas niSnavs, rom arCevnebze

arc dasavleTi iqneba gulx-

eldakrefili.

_ amerikis SeerTebuli Statebi

arasdros araa gulxeldakrefili,

roca saqme saqar-

Tvelos exeba. minda, vTxovo

„qarTul ocnebas”, rom rame ar

miqaros da arCevnebi normalurad

Caataros.

_ ruseTs am arCevnebze

aucileblad eyoleba Tavisi

favoriti. Tqveni azriT, vis

uWers moskovi mxars?

_ zviad gamsaxurdias damxobis

Semdeg ruseTi ama Tu im

formiT warmodgenilia saqar-

Tvelos xelisuflebaSi. es aris

Cemi pasuxi Tqvens kiTxvaze.

_ am arCevnebze moskovi

„ocnebas” dauWers mxars?

_ ar vici, radgan mas opoziciaSic

hyavs dasayrdeni.

_ vin aris moskovis

dasayrdeni opoziciaSi?

_ Temur alasanias klasteri,

romelic opoziciaSi

Zlierad aris warmodgenili.

_ Temur alasanias klasterSi

„nacionalebs” gulisx-

mobT?

_ „nacebsa” da ara marto

maT. Zalian Zlieri klasteri

hyavs alasanias. misi saxiT ruseTs

opoziciaSi myari dasayrdeni

hyavs. ar dagvaviwydes,

rom Temur alasania „kagebes”

maRalCinosani iyo. yofili

„kagebeSnikebi” ki, rogorc amboben,

ar arseboben.

_ vano merabiSvilic Temur

alasanias klasterSi Sedis?

_ ra Tqma unda.

_ Tavidan iTqva, rom axalcixeSi

is iqneboda „nacionalebis”

maJoritarobis kandi-

dati. mere misi kandidaturis

dayeneba gadaifiqres. Tqveni

azriT, vano gadaagdes, Tu

raRac aqvT Cafiqrebuli?

_ ar gamovricxav, rame hqondeT

Cafiqrebuli, magram ufro

mgonia, rom realobas gauswores

Tvali. vano merabiSvilis

maJoritaroba warmoudgenelia.

mas bevri cudi saqme

aqvs gakeTebuli.

_ biZinam icoda, Tu ra

saqmeebi hqonda merabiSvils

Cadenili, magram mainc gaiZax-

oda, vano kargi menejeriao.

_ ivaniSvili marto merabiSvilze

ar ambobda amas. zurab

adeiSvili misi Tvali da Zalian

patiosani pirovneba iyo.

ucnaurad midis yvelaferi da

mokled rom giTxraT, seriozul

siurprizebs velodebi.

_ visgan elodebiT siurprizebs

_ ivaniSvilisgan, go-

gaSvilisgan Tu ruseTisgan?

_ yvelasgan velodebi siurprizebs.

es mSvidi arCevnebi ar

iqneba. iseTi gancda maqvs, rom

raRac moxdeba.

_ imedia, samoqalaqo dapir-

ispireba ar iqneba.

_ amisgan RmerTma dagvifaros.

ai, saarCevno siurprizebi

ki namdvilad iqneba. siurprizebs

arc erTi mxare ar moerideba.

es rom ar moxdes, yvela

Zalian frTxilad unda iyos.

keli degnanis gancxadeba

metad sayuradReboa. amitom

movuwodeb „qarTul ocnebas”,

rom arCevnebze araferi miqaros.

_ miqarvas marto xelisu-

flebisgan elodebiT?

_ es safrTxe opoziciidanac

modis da maTac movuwodeb, rom

rame ar miqaron. yvelaferi unda

gakeTdes, rom arCevnebi mSvidad

gadavagoroT. yvelaze kargi

iqneba, opoziciac da umravlesobac

ruseTs SeeSvebodes.

N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.

15


`melaSvili da iliCova politikuri

bolo drois yvelaze rezonan-

nene injgia

sul „kartografebis saqmeze” gamo-

591 71 39 98

Ziebis inicireba rom politikurad

motivirebulia, amis dasadasture-

blad ramdenime faqti arsebobs, maT Soris, gamoZiebis dawyebis

dro. gamoZieba mimdinareobs winasaarCevno periodSi saqarTvelos

moqalaqeebisTvis Zalian sensitiur Temaze. msgavsi sakiTxebis

wamoweva am periodSi, didi albaTobiT, mimarTulia amom-

rCevlebze zemoqmedebisken. aseT qmedebebs mmarTveli partia

adrec xSirad mimarTavda. iveri melaSvilisa da natalia iliCo-

vas dakavebis Semdeg „qarTuli ocnebis” liderebma, mimdinare

saqmeze, udanaSaulobis prezumpciis principis darRveviT, gaa-

keTes politizebuli da populisturi gancxadebebi. aRniSnuli

gancxadebebi im dros gakeTda, rodesac dakavebul pirebs ofi-

cialurad arc ki hqondaT wardgenili brali.

raze metyvelebs is faqti, rom

winasaarCevnod xelisufleba bin-

Zuri politikur TamaSebs awyobs?

SesaZloa Tu ara, rom es strategia

xelisuflebas Tavis sawi-

naaRmdegod Semoubrundes? ra

aris „evropuli saqarTvelos”

mTavari gzavnili 2020 wlis sapa-

rlamento arCevnebze? ra Sansebi

aqvs „evropuli saqarTvelos” va-

kis maJoritar kandidat elene

xoStarias?

aRniSnuli Temebis Sesaxeb

„qronika+~ „evropuli saqarT-

velos” saarCevno siis wevrsa da

elene xoStarias Stabis xelmZRv-

anel nino goguaZes esaubra:

_ qalbatono nino, xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebisgan vismenT,

rom ar unda moxdes „kar-

tografebis saqmis” politizeba,

amis paralelurad ki iveri melaSvilsa

da natalia iliCovas moR-

alateebs eZaxian. ra procesebTan

gvaqvs saqme?

_ es aris saSineleba, katastrofa!

erTi wamiT ar mepareba eWvi,

rom es adamianebi politikuri

TamaSebisTvis daakaves. gveubnebian,

rom maT miwebi moRalateobrivad

gadasces azerbaijans, Tan acxadeben,

rom azerbaijanTan teritoriuli

pretenzia ar gaaCniaT.

viciT, rom im sazRvarze, razedac

mimdinareobs saubari, aranairi

SeTanxmeba ar yofila. e. i. adamianebi

daiWires im qmedebisTvis,

romelic bunebaSi ar ganxorcielebula.

es aris sufTa politikuri

avantiura, adamianebis gawirva sakuTari

politikuri scenarisTvis

da miznebisTvis. is xelisufleba,

romelic adamians ase eqceva, romelsac

arafrad miaCnia adamianis

uflebebi, Rirseba, reputacia da

fexqveS Telavs mas, qarTvelma xalxma

unda gaistumros. es aris arsobrivad

sabWoTa kavSiris gagrZeleba.

samwuxarod, Cveni samarTaldamcveli

sistema sabWoTa sistemis

memkvidrea. verc erTma xelisuflebam

ver moaxerxa, rom sabWoTa

represiuli Zalovani struqturebis

reformireba moexdina. imis magivrad,

Zalovani struqturebi samarTadamcvel

struqturebad gadaqceuliyo,

anu adamianis gasanadgureblad

da dakveTebis Sesasruleblad

ki ar arsebobdnen,

aramed imisTvis, rom daicvan kanoni

da adamianis uflebebi, samarTali

am qveyanaSi, piriqiT xdeba. es

xelisufleba, iseve rogorc wina,

sastikad iyenebs Zalovan struqturebs

adamianis uflebebis masobrivad

darRvevisTvis. vimeoreb: es

xelisufleba Tavisi arsiT sabWo-

Ta kavSiris memkvidrea. „kartografebis

saqmeSi” umniSvnelovanesi

darRvevaa udanaSaulo adamianebis

uflebebisa da Rirsebis fexqveS

gaTelva. es politikuri TamaSi

Zalian saSiSia Cveni qveynisa da regionisTvis.

religiuri da erovnuli

grZnobebiT TamaSi yvelaze mZime

kategoriaa. Cven strategiul

partnior azerbaijanTan es dagvi-

Zabavs urTierTobas, rac mxolod

ruseTis interesebSi SeiZleba Sediodes.

saerTod ar mikvirs, rom

arCevnebamde sami kviriT adre

ruseTidan, „kgb”-dan gaCnda axali

ruka, romelmac aseTi vnebaTaRelvebi

gamoiwvia. warmoudgenelia,

vinmes sjerodes imis, rom ruseTma

ruka mogvawoda saqarTvelos

teritoriis sasargeblod. maSin,

roca ruseTi Cveni qveynis okupantia,

yvelani vxedavT yoveldRiurad

ramden adamians itacebs da

rogor iTvisebs Cvens teritoriebs!

maSin, roca yarabaRis omia gaCaRebuli,

Cvens saxelmwifos normaluri

xelisufleba rom hyavdes,

marTla bewvis xidze unda gaiaros

am omSi, Tan imaze unda zrunavdes,

rom rame eqscesi ar moxdes

Cvens teritoriaze. mudmivad unda

awarmoos politika, rom Cvens eTnikurad

azerbaijanel da somex

moqalaqeebSic ar moxdes gaugebroba.

amis nacvlad xelisufleba

daZabulobas qmnis azerbaijanTan.

diax, es aris destabilizaciis saqme.

ase rom, am xelisuflebas arc

adamiani da arc qveyana arafrad

miaCnia, mzad aris, erTic da meorec

gawiros Tavisi Zalauflebis

SesanarCuneblad. CemTvis Zalian

mniSvnelovania is, rom „kartografebis

saqmeSic” gaCnda irakli

RaribaSvilisa da mindia janeliZis

gvarebi, radgan „kabelebis

saqmeSic” analogiurad xdeboda,

romelic aseve iyo politikuri

mizniT Sekerili da udanaSaulo

adamianebi Casves cixeSi, raTa irakli

alasanias politikurad gasworebodnen.

es iyo am xelisuflebis

pirobebSi pirveli aseTi Sem-

Txveva. maSinac es saqme Sekera

RaribaSvilma da masTan dakavSirebulma

janyaraSvilis klanma. mindia

janeliZe iyo is adamiani, romelmac

alasanias safrangeTSi daureka,

rodesac is Zalian mniSvnelovan

Tavdacvis sistemebze memorandums

xels awerda da mosTxova,

rom saqarTvelosTvis sasicocxlo

xelSekrulebaze xeli ar

moewera, Tumca alasaniam xeli moawera.

swored, maSin daakaves „kabelebis

saqmeze” is adamianebi. RaribaSvilisa

da janeliZis, „kartografebis

saqmeSi” xseneba miuTiTebs

imaze, rom saqmeSi rusuli interesebia.

_ Tqven aRniSneT, rom xelisu-

fleba winasaarCevnod binZuri

politikuri TamaSebiT aris

dakavebuli. raze miuTiTebs is

faqti, rom mmarTveli gundi wina-

saarCevnod am TamaSebiT cdilobs

qulebis daweras?

_ es aris, rogorc maT uyvarT

xolme am sityvis gamoyeneba, xelisuflebis

xelwera. maTi politika

9-wliani mmarTvelobis siZulvilze

dgas. biZina ivaniSvils

saerTod ase miaCnia, rom unda gamoacxados

msgavsi ram: am qveyana-

Si arsebobs mxolod biZina da miSa.

amiT daZabos situacia, iTamaSos

adamianebis fobiebze da mxolod

amiT moigos arCevnebi. garda amisa,

aseTi samarcxvino ram, rac aris

udanaSaulo adamianebis daWera da

qveynis destabilizaciaSi Seyvanis

mcdeloba, es miuTiTebs imaze, rom

ivaniSvilma icis, ar aqvs saqme kargad.

axla surs, adamianebs ise

daubnelos religiuri da erovnuli

grZnobebiT goneba, rom isev

nino goguaZe:

`RaribaSvilisa da

janeliZis

`kartografebis

saqmeSi~ xseneba

miuTiTebs, rom

saqmeSi rusuli

interesebia~

darazmos isini, TiTqos wina xelisuflebam

miwebi gayida da

TiTqos Tavad daubrunebs. 21-e

saukuneSi rukiT teritoriebis

dabruneba Tu xdeba, namdvilad ar

vici. maT surT, rom rukebze laparakiT

CagviTrion absurdSi da

Segnebulad ar gadavdivar am sakiTxze.

rasakvirvelia, ivaniSvili

veranair axal dapirebas ver iZleva,

_ yvelam icis, rom am xelisuflebas

ar aqvs aranairi konkretuli

gegma, arc unari da arc Sesa-

Zlebloba, qveyana gamoiyvanos am

umZimesi socialur-ekonomikuri

da politikuri krizisidan. amitom,

ra Tqma unda, biZina ivaniSvils

`miuxedavad imisa, rom mTeli

administraciuli resursi aqvT daxarjuli

mmarTveli gundis kandidatze, elene yvela

kvleviT uswrebs `qarTuli ocnebis~ kandidats.

elene xoStaria aris adamiani, romelic

ubralod imitom ki ar unda airCioT, rom

opoziciis saerTo kandidatia an imitom ki

ara, rom èvropuli saqarTvelos~ wevria,

aramed imitom, rom is aris gamorCeuli

adamiani, romlisTvisac moyvasis gverdiT

dgoma misi cxovrebis wesia~

eSinia da es politikuri TamaSi

amis Sedegia da kidev imis, rom sxva

araferi SeuZlia.

_ es triuki rogor Semoubrun-

debaT arCevnebze?

_ didi imedi maqvs, rom marTla

sazogadoeba varT da ara adamianebis

raRac jgufi, romelTa manipulaciac

ase advilia. Tu sazogadoeba

varT, undo moviSoroT

is xelisufleba, romelsac ase

arafrad miaCnia adamiani, qveynis

stabiluroba, pirovnebasa da qveyanasac

swiravs, atarebs Cveni okupanti

qveynis ruseTis interesebs.

rasac axla gvTavazoben, es aris

putinis ruseTis tipis qveyana, sadac

usafrTxoebis samsaxuriT,

politikuri sasamarTloTi da

prokuraturiT imarTeba saxelmwifo.

aseT xelisuflebas, didi

imedi maqvs, sazogadoeba dasjis da

mas ar mianiWebs Zalauflebas 2020

wlis 31 oqtombers.

_ Tqven ganacxadeT, rom

ivaniSvili cdilobs Sav-TeTri

arCevani warmoaCinos, TiTqos mx-

olod is da saakaSvili arian, am

dros ki „evropuli saqarTvelo”

yvelafers akeTebs, rom ivaniSvilsa

da saakaSvils Soris tolo-

bis niSani dasvas. Cven vnaxeT

politikuri kinklaoba „naciona-

lur moZraobasa” da „evropul

saqarTvelos” Soris. metic: „evr-

opulma saqarTvelom” saarCevno

rgolic ki gaakeTa ivaniSvilsa da

saakaSvilze. „nacionalur moZr-

aobaSi” acxadeben, rom „evropuli

saqarTvelo” Tavs esxmis maT. ra

aris am procesSi „evropuli

saqarTvelos” mizani da ramdenad

gamarTlebulia es strategia?

_ sakuTari dafuZnebuli partiidan,

romlis ucvleli politikuri

mdivanic viyavi, romlis

Rirebulebebis, ideologiuri dokumentis

Semqmneli gaxldiT, momixda

wamosvla, axla var upartio.

me var „evropuli saqarTvelos”

siis wevri da ara _ partiis wevri.

rasac dRes amboben, amas 2016 welsac

gavyvirodi da mTavari mesiji

iyo, rom arc ivaniSvili da arc

saakaSvili, magram amJamad amaze ar

vsaubrobT. Tavis droze, „evropul

saqarTvelosTan” principulad

SevediT bloksa da koalicia-

Si, radgan CemTvis msoflmxedvelobrivad

miuRebelia absoluturi

Zalauflebisken swrafva.

16

16 N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.


TamaSebisTvis daakaves!~

diax, CemTvis principulad miuRebelia,

romelime erT jgufs

hqondes absoluturi Zalaufleba,

radgan es iqneba isev sabWoTa tradiciis

gagrZeleba, rodesac erTi

partia gabatondeba qveyanaze, institutebze,

kanonze. es ukve gaviareT

da igi warsulSi unda darCes.

darwmunebuli var, es igulisxmeba

„evropuli saqarTvelos”

gancxadebebsa da saaarCevno sareklamo

rgolebSi. „nacionaluri mo-

Zraobis” mxridan saubari imaze,

rom TviTon koalicia aqvT da bevri

subieqti hyavT, ukacravad, magram

Rimilismomgvrelia, radgan

rodesac 2012 wels SevediT biZina

ivaniSvilis koaliciaSi, maSin gacilebiT

Zlieri partiebi viyaviT:

„Tavisufali demokratebi”, respublikelebi,

„erovnuli forumi”,

magram mainc miviReT absoluturi

Zalaufleba. ase rom, Zalian mniSvnelovania,

rom koalicia Sedges

im partiebisgan, romlebic damoukideblad

miiReben ndobasa da

procents qarTveli xalxisgan. amis

Semdeg Sevidnen koaliciaSi, imitom,

rom amas sxva wona aqvs. rodesac

koalicia Zlieri lideris

qveS gaqvs, es ukve koalicia aRar

aris, aseT SemTxvevaSi im liderze

xdebi damokidebuli, radgan swored

misi meSveobiT iReb am procentebs

da aranairi damoukidebeli

procenti ar gagaCnia.

_ ramdenad moaxerxeT Tqveni

am mTavari gzavnilebis sazoga-

doebamde mitana?

_ Cveni valia, xalxs gavagebinoT:

moqalaqeebi TavianTi arCevaniT

anawileben Zalauflebas da

maTi micemuli xma ayalibebs Semdgom

xelisuflebas. moqalaqeebma

kargad unda gaiazron, rom Tavad

aniWeben Zalauflebas ama Tu im

pirs. rac Seexeba „evropul saqarTvelos”,

miuxedevad imisa, rom

Cven absoluturad dapirispirebuli

warsuli gvaqvs, momavals erTnairad

vxedavT, rom unda iyos dabalansebuli

Zalaufleba. maSin,

roca am qveyanaSi ar arsebobs damoukidebeli

institutebi da sasamarTlo,

koaliciuri mmarTveloba

swored imitom aris mniSvnelovani,

rom Zalaufleba dabalansdes.

Torem, magaliTad, amerikis

SeerTebul SatetebSi sul ori

partiaa, magram iq imdenad Zlieri

institutebi da sasamarTloa, Tan

imxela avtoritetis, rom mas ko-

aliciebiT dabalanseba ar sWirdeba.

darwmunebuli var, mxolod

dabalansebuli Zalauflebis SemTxvevaSi

iqneba SesaZlebeli damoukidebeli

institutebisa da

sasamarTlos Seqmna, aseve partiebi

erTmaneTTan iqnebian konkurenciaSi,

rac Zalian mniSvnelovania.

CemTvis yvelaze mTavaria, rom „evropuli

saqarTvelo” aris Zlieri

politikuri gundi, gamocdilebi-

Ta da kompetenciiT. aqvs gawerili

gegma Tavisi xedviT, Tu rogor

unda amoviyvanoT qveyana da xalxi

siRaribidan, gamovasworoT ekonomikuri

ganviTareba, davwioT gadasaxadebi.

darwmunebuli var, Cveni

sazogadoeba mixvdeba, vinmes

mxares ki ar unda iyo, gundebi ki

ar TamaSoben, rom romelimes mxari

dauWiron, aramed romeli partiac

ufro axlos iqneba maT warmodgenasa

da TvalsazrisTan, imas

unda miscen xma. amomrCevelma unda

dainaxos, romel partias aqvs imis

potenciali, rom marTlac profesiulad

ganaviTaros es qveyana da

Seuqcevadad daayenos dasavluri

civilizaciis gzaze, Seiyvanos Tavisufal

samyaroSi. garda amisa,

Cven, politikurma partiebma, qar-

Tulma sazogadoebam da dasavlelma

partniorebma erTad movipoveT

proporciuli arCevnebi, rac

unikaluri Sansia, rom parlamenti

iyos mravalpartiuli. mravalpartiuli

parlamenti ki met-naklebad

srulfasovnad asaxavs Cveni

mravalferovani xalxis miswrafebebs.

darwmunebuli var, koaliciuri

mmarTveloba iqneba da „evropuli

saqarTvelo” mniSvnelovan

funqcias Seasrulebs am koalicia-

Si.

_ Tqven xarT „evropuli saqarTvelos”

vakis maJoritar kan-

didat elene xoStarias saarCevno

Stabis xelmZRvaneli. rogor mim-

dinareobs winasaarCevo procesi

da ra molodiniebi gaqvT?

_ winasaarCevno procesebSi Semodis

damatebiTi faqtori: pandemia,

virusi da Cvens moqalaqeebs,

ra Tqma unda, eSiniaT am virusis,

magram procesi, met-naklebad,

normalurad mimdinareobs. miuxedavad

imisa, rom mTeli administraciuli

resursi aqvT daxarjuli

mmarTveli gundis kandidatze,

elene yvela kvleviT uswrebs „qarTuli

ocnebis” kandidats. elene

xoStaria aris adamiani, romelic

ubralod imitom ki ar unda air-

CioT, rom opoziciis saerTo kandidatia

an imitom ki ara, rom

„evropuli saqarTvelos” wevria,

aramed imitom, rom is aris gamor-

Ceuli adamiani, romlisTvisac

moyvasis gverdiT dgoma misi cxovrebis

wesia. misTvis sulerTia,

vis dasWirdeba misi daxmareba, mis

momxres Tu mowinaaRmdeges. ar

meguleba iseTi adamiani, romelsac

xalxis gasaWiris gaziareba da Semsubuqeba,

misi uflebebis dacva ise

SeuZlia, rogorc elene xoStarias.

vakes aqvs erTaderTi arCevani da

es arCevani gaxlavT elene xoStari.

minda, Tqveni gazeTis saSualebiT

yvelas mivmarTo, rom 31

oqtombers yvelani movidnen arCevnebze,

radgan am dRes wydeba, rogori

iqneba maTi cxovreba, minimum,

momavali 4 weli da saqarTvelo

mowydeba Tu ara ruseTis orbitas,

iqneba Tu ara dasavluri, civilizebuli,

samarTlebrivi saxelmwifo,

Tu darCeba putinis ruseTis

tipis saxelmwifod. darwmunebuli

var, Cveni moqalaqeebi Tavisuflebisa

da Rirsebis sasargeblod

gaakeTeben arCevans. aravin dagaSinoT,

ar ifiqroT, rom Tqvens erT

xmas ar aqvs mniSvneloba, yvelani

arCevnebze da es xelisufleba,

romelic ase TamaSobs adamianebis,

qveynis bediT, mSvidobianad gavistumroT

xelisuflebidan!

qarTuli erovnuli valuta isev Sav dReSia. 7

Tengiz abloTia

wlis winaT es SedarebiT axali movlena iyo, Tumca

mas dRes ukve yvela mieCvia. didi mravalfer-

ovnebiT arc xelisuflebis reaqcia gamoirCeva _ mTavroba Tavs imiT imarTlebs,

rom es gaugebrobaa da fundamenturi ekonomikuri faqtorebi iseT karg mdgo-

mareobaSia, rom pirdapir gasakviria _ ase Zalian ratom ufasurdeba valuta?

N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.

Semdeg erovnuli bankis ufrosi gamodis

da ambobs, rom „laris kursi ar Sedis erovnuli

bankis kompetenciaSi da Cveni amocanaa

inflaciisa da fasebis zrdis Sekaveba”...

mere Cndeba Cveni uzenaesi mzeTamze da

rame saSinelebas abrexvebs _ magaliTad,

„dRes lari iseTi myaria, rogorc arasdros”.

bolos, bunebrivi faqtorebidan gamomdinare,

devalvacia SeCerda da larma,

rogorc finansistebi amboben, „mcirediT

gamyareba” daiwyo. amas xelisuflebis mxridan,

rogorc wesi, didi zarzeimi mohyveba:

„Cveni swori da mizanmimarTuli qmedebebis

wyalobiT, erovnuli valuta Zvel niSnuls

ubrundeba”.

Semdeg qocebis laqia-eqspertebi rigSi

dgebian imisTvis, rom tv „imedis” eTerSi

mTavroba „zusti da Tanmimdevruli qmedebebis”

gamo kidev erTxel Seaqon.

lari „mcirediT gamyardeba” da sabolood

dastabilurdeba garkveul niSnulze,

oRond is mainc gacilebiT uaresi

iqneba, vidre iyo devalvaciis talRis dawyebamde.

amiT yvelaferi dasruldeba. 3-4

TviT. Semdeg daiwyeba axali talRa da ase

usasrulod...

mosawyenic ki aris, rogorc cudi re-

Jisoris Semoqmedeba, romelsac kargi kinos

gadasaRebad niWi ar hyofnis, magram am

saqmes jiutad ar eSveba.

laris mTavari ubedureba ki is gaxlavT,

rom aravis surs realobis danaxva da ise-

Ti zomebis miReba, romelic xalxSi arapopularuli,

magram met-naklebad efeqtiani

iqneba.

yvela „fundamentur faqtorebze” laparakobs

da xSirad gakvirvebas ver malavs

_ Turme, fundamenturi ekonomikuri faqtorebi

iseT mSvenier mdgomareobaSia, rom

pirdapir saocaria _ es ugnuri lari ase

cudad ratom iqceva?

magram gasakviri am SemTxvevaSi ara laris

saqcieli, aramed es, xSirad, gulwrfeli

gakvirvebaa. romel fundamentur ekonomikur

faqtorebzea saubari situaciaSi,

rodesac qveynis meoTxedi bazrebze vaWrobs

da Semosavlebis didi nawili ucxour

gzavnilebsa da turistul nakadebze modis?

saqarTvelos mTavari ekonomikuri faqtori

isaa, rom qveyanaSi ekonomika ar arsebobs,

amitomac laris waqceva mcire niavsac

SeuZlia _ sadRac, romeliRac seqtorSi

valutis Semodineba odnav Semcirda _ da

iwyeba axali talRa...

politikosebi da eqspertebi gamosavals

eZeben, oRond, rogorc yovelTvis, zedapirulad

da iq, sadac is realurad ar arsebobs.

qveyana iaffasianma populizmma moicva _

arCevnebis win yvela cdilobs amomrCevlis

gulis mogebas standartuli dapirebebiT:

pensiebis zrda, sabanko procentebis Semcireba,

sabiujeto xarjebis optimizacia...

sadaa aq ekonomikuri xedva? riT apireben

politikosebi _ orive banakidan _ gayinuli

ekonomikis amoZravebas?

aravin aRiarebs, rac unda aRiaros da

aravin eubneba xalxs imas, rac unda uTxras:

„xalxno, am qveynis mTavari problema da mamuxruWebeli

Zala Tqven xarT”...

aravin gamova da patiosnad ar etyvis

glexebs, rom isini am qveynis usargeblo

balastad iqcnen da, saerTodac, Tavad cneba

„glexi” ukve CamorCenilobis niSania. arc

erT met-naklebad normalur qveyanaSi araviTari

„glexi” ar arsebobs _ iq soflis mosaxleobis

didi nawili msxvil fermerTa

privilegirebul kastas ganekuTvneba.

yvela eZebs gamosavals dRes arsebuli

sistemis farglebSi. miSa saakaSvili ukrainaSia,

magram mis mier dadgenili ganviTarebis

modeli dResac muSaobs _ gavamartivoT

kanonebi, SevamciroT biurokratia,

davwioT gadasaxadebi, avaSenoT axali sastumroebi,

ganvaaxloT infrastruqtura da

gavyidoT saerTaSoriso bazarze meti Zveli

manqana da meti feroSenadnobi.

2004 wels es strategia didi progresi

iyo, radganac 2004 wlamde saerTod aravi-

Tari xedva ar arsebobda. am midgomam, pirobiTad,

„saakaSvilis modelma”, wlebis man-

Zilze kargad imuSava da Sedegebic moitana,

magram 15 weli gavida da man Tavisi Tavi

ukve amowura _ verc axali sastumroebi,

verc biznesklimatis gaumjobeseba, verc

azerbaijanSi gayiduli „priusebi” da verc

axali gzebi da xidebi saqmes ver Svelis.

gaWedili saqarTvelo

saWiroa axali rakursi, magram misi aRmoCenis

niWi arc mTavrobas gaaCnia da arc

_ opozicias _ orive mxare gamosavals iq

eZebs, sadac is ukve karga xania, ar arsebobs.

realobaSi ki gamosavali sul sxvaganaa.

daukvirdiT: saakaSvilis modelma zustad

im doziT imuSava, ra doziTac qarTuli

erovnuli mentaliteti Seicvala. dRes

qveynis ganviTarebis mTavari Semaferxebeli

Zala swored tradiciuli qarTuli mentalitetia

da misi Secvlis gareSe gadasaxadebis

Semcireba verafers gaxdeba.

politikosebma unda Sewyviton arafris

maqnis, parazitad qceuli „mamapapuri”

qarTvelobisTvis Tavze xelis gadasma. yvelam

unda gaigos _ saqarTveloSi ekonomika

ar iarsebebs manam, sanam ar moispoba es

wurbeluri cxovrebis wesi.

SemogTavazebT mxolod 3 konkretul

nabijs, romelic ekonomikas Tu ver gaajansaRebs,

adgilidan mainc daZravs _ gacilebiT

metad, vidre saubari pensiebis

zrdaze; an daficebebi, rom sajaro struqturebSi

nakleb rbil avejs iyidian da

iSviaTad ivlian restornebSi.

pirveli: unda Sewydes muqTaxora glexobis

azris gaTvaliswineba da ucxoelebisTvis

sasoflo-sameurneo miwebis floba

isev dasaSvebi unda gaxdes. calsaxaa, rom

qarTvelebs miwaSi qeqvas TbilisSi taqsaoba

urCevniaT, da asobiT aTasi heqtari miwa

isev upatronodaa migdebuli.

qveyanaSi ucxoelebs msxvili fermebis

Seqmnis SesaZlebloba unda mieceT, maTi

teritoria unda SemoiRobos mavTulxlarTebiT

da maT saxelmwifom SeiaraRebuli

dacva unda gamouyos _ imisTvis, rom

verc erTma mTvralma glexma iq rame ver

aurios da ver gaafuWos.

meore: saswrafod unda daiwyos msxvili

hesebis mSenebloba _ es ara mxolod aTobiT

milion dolars Semoitans, aramed adgilobrivi

industriisTvis ganviTarebis

kargi stimuli iqneba. yovelgvari winaaRmdegoba

adgilobrivi parazitebis mxridan

unda aRikveTos nebismieri gziT _ iqneba es

mosyidva Tu uxeSi Zala.

da mesame: saxelmwifom adgilobriv warmoebas

xeli unda Seuwyos _ maqsimalurad

Seisyidos tenderebSi adgilobrivi nawarmi

_ kvebis produqtebiT dawyebuli, saRebavebiT

dasrulebuli.

es yvelaferi arsebul problemebs ver

gadawyvets, momakvdav ekonomikas ver gaacocxlebs

da dolarebis uzarmazar deficits

ver amoavsebs, Tumca uZraobaSi CaZirul

qveyanaSi minimalur dinamikas mainc

Semoitans.

Tumca Cven yvelam viciT, rom es ar

moxdeba _ qarTveli politikosebi lumpenproletariatis

moferebas gaagrZeleben,

isev pensiebsa da yurZnis fasze ilaparakeben,

lari ki yovel 3-4 TveSi axal wres

daartyams.

da ase _ usasrulod...

17


ìsanSi mTavari brZola giorgi vaSaZesa da

opoziciur gaerTianeba „Zala

Sorena marsagiSvili

erTobaSias” saarCevno siam didi

599 92 16 22

aurzauri gamoiwvia. iq ramdenime

odiozuri figuris gamoCena Tavad

„nacionalebma” gaaprotestes, magram rogorc amboben, vano

merabiSvilma da mixeil saakaSvilma moaxerxes maTi daSoSmineba.

kerZod, isini daarwmunes, rom kaxa oqriaSvilis, cezar Co-

Celisa da dilar xabulianis Semokedleba aucilebeli iyo,

radganac partias saarCevno kampaniis Casatareblad fuli ar

hqonda. es argumenti yvelasTvis misaRebi ar aRmoCnda. zogi

Cumad gaerida procesebs da arCevnebis Semdeg gaakeTebs gancx-

adebebs. giorgi vaSaZem ki Tavis gundTan erTad arCevnebamde

ramdenime TviT adre datova es gaerTianeba. arada, 2018 wels

am gaerTianebis Sesaqmnelad bevri imuSava. rogorc amboben,

vaSaZianelTa demarSis mizezi swored es odiozuri sia iyo.

„nacionalebma” vaSaZes es demarSi ar apaties da isanSi

konkurentad xatia dekanoiZe Causves. arada, vaSaZe opoziciis

saerTo kandidati iyo. „nacionalebi” da danarCeni opozicia

vaSaZem imiTac gaabraza, rom Tavi premierobis kandidatad

daasaxela. „strategia aRmaSenebeli” gaerTianeba „Zala erTobaSiadan”

odiozuri siis gamo rom wamovida, amas Cvens gamoce-

masTan saubarSi nawilobriv adasturebs Teona WaliZe.

ratom gadawyvita parlamen-

tSi wasvla? datova Tu ara

uyuradRebod gaWirvebuli adamianebi?

ra SeTanxmeba daar-

Rvia opoziciam? ras emsaxure-

ba ivaniSvilis gancxadebebi,

rom arCevnebs „qarTuli ocneba”

moigebs? ra unda gaacnobieros

amomrCevelma? _ am Temebis

Sesaxeb Teona WaliZe „qron-

ika+~-s esaubreba:

_ Teona WaliZe gavicaniT,

rogorc gaWirvebuli adami-

anebis interesebis damcveli.

igi axmovanebda maT proble-

mebs. axla mTlianad arCevnebze

xarT gadarTuli. es xalxi

uyuradRebod darCa, Tu axerxebT

maTi problemebis gac-

nobas? isini axla gansakuTre-

biT saWiroeben yuradRebas,

pandemiam maTi isedac duxWiri

cxovreba kidev ufro daamZima.

_ gaWirvebuli da socialurad

daucveli adamianebi uyuradRebod

ar darCnen, maqsimums

vakeTeb Cemi SesaZleblobis

farglebSi. Tumca es araa sakmarisi.

winasaarCevno kampaniam

ufro gadatvirTa Cemi grafiki,

kidev ufro met adamians vxvdebiT

da es yvelaferi piradi da

ojaxisTvis dasaTmobi drois

xarjze xdeba. araa martivi, axla

veranair balanss ver viWer, imdenad

bevri saqmea, dro arafrisTvis

mrCeba. axla Cemi mizania,

swored am gaWirvebaSi myofi

adamianebis interesebis

ukeTesad dacva rom SevZlo, 31

oqtombris arCevnebze bevri adamianis

mxardaWera movipovo,

rac arCevnebze misvliT da nomeri

27-is SemoxazviT iqneba dadasturebuli.

_ maTi uflebebi rom daicvaT,

amisTvis aucileblad parlamentSi

unda SexvideT? aqamde

parlamentSi ar iyaviT, ma-

gram maT uflebebs icavdiT,

maT problemebs axmovanebdiT.

_ amas parlamentis wevris

statusis gareSec vakeTebdi, magram

sakanonmdeblo organodan

asjer ukeTesad SevZleb xalxis

daxmarebas. amitom axla Zalian

mniSvnelovania maTi mxardaWera

CemTvis. kabinetSi arasdros

vmjdarvar, arasaarCevno peri-

odSic da saarCevno periodSic

asobiT adamiani mogvmarTavs.

problemebi Zalian mZime da bevria,

Tumca maTi mogvareba Seu-

Zlebeli araa.

_ SeuZlebeli Tu ar aris,

ratom ar gvardeba?

_ es problemebi rom mogvardes,

meti mondomeba da xalxze

zrunvaa saWiro, politikosi

adamianebis keTildReobaze

unda iyo orientirebuli da

ara _ sakuTari jibis gasqelebaze.

qonebrivi deklaracia ramdenime

dRis win Sevavse. es savaldebulo

moTxovnaa maTTvis,

vinc partiebis proporciul siaSia.

TiTqmis carieli davtove

yvela furceli.

_ carieli ratom datoveT,

aranair qonebas ar flobT?

_ Cemi mTavari simdidre pirvel

gverdze daetia _ es aris

Cemi ojaxi. amiT imis Tqma minda,

rom me TviTonac kargad mesmis

da bevri ram Tavadac gamocdili

maqvs, amitom ufro kargad

vugeb im xalxs, visac yoveldRiuri

saarsebo problemebi

aqvs. axla isnis Stabs vxelmZRvanelob

da ZiriTadad

isanze var orientirebuli. isan-

Si imarTeba mTavari brZola

Cvens partiasa da „qarTul ocnebas”

Soris. ufaso sasadiloebis

beneficiarebs yoveldRe vxvdebi,

maJoritaris StabSic

yoveldRe modian moqalaqeebi

sxvadasxva saxis problemebiT,

konsultacias vuwevT, sabanko

sesxebTan dakavSirebiT gaproblemebuli

sakiTxebis mogvareba-

Sic vexmarebiT. postpandemiur

periodSi kidev ufro moimata

momarTvianobam. Zalian maSinebs

momavali zamTari.

_ ratom gaSinebT, fiqrobT,

rom kidev ufro damZimdeba

mdgomareoba?

_ Tu rame swrafi cvlilebebi

ar ganxorcielda, kidev ufro

damZimdeba adamianebis yofa

da gasul gazafxulze rac moxda,

SimSili kidev ufro gamwvavdeba.

amitomaa aucilebeli xelisuflebis

Secvla, rac, Tavis

mxriv, pozitiuri cvlilebebis

molodins gaaCens da plus korona-realobis

farglebSi gasatarebeli

RonisZiebebia aucilebeli,

rom SimSili aviridoT

Tavidan.

_ gadavideT politikur sa-

kiTxebzec: yvelam vnaxeT,

rogor erTsulovnad daudga

gverdiT opozicia nika melias.

giorgi vaSaZis SemTxvevaSi ase,

albaT, ar gamova. es isnis ma-

Joritarul olqSi saxelisu-

flebo kandidatis gamarjvebas

xom ar Seuwyobs xels?

_ yvelam unda gaiazros da

kargad Seafasos, vis ufro Seu-

Zlia saxelisuflebo kandidatis

damarcxeba. isnis maJoritarul

olqSi „qarTuli ocnebis”

kandidat kaxi kaxiSvilsa da

Teona WaliZe:

`strategia

aRmaSenebeli~

erTaderTi

partiaa, visi

reitingic yvela

kvlevis mixedviT

mzardia~

giorgi vaSaZes Soris unda gaakeTos

xalxma arCevani.

_ isanSi sxva opoziciuri

kandidatebic arian warmodgenilni.

isini ratom ver gamar-

Taven brZolas „ocnebasTan”?

isinic fiqroben, rom „ocnebis”

kandidatisTvis mxolod maT

SeuZliaT winaaRmdegobis gaw-

eva.

_ isanSi sxva opoziciuri kandidatebic

iyrian maJoritarad

kenWs. danarCeni opoziciuri

kandidatebi, ubralod, xels uSlian

saerTo mizans _ „qarTuli

ocnebis” damarcxebas pirvelsave

turSi. vfiqrob, rom amomrCevlebma

TavianTi xma ar unda

ìm kandidatisTvis xmis micema, romelic

saxelisuflebo kandidats ver daamarcxebs,

gaumarTlebelia. es maTi xmis dakargva iqneba.

yvelam metad unda daafasos Tavisi erTi xma

da ubralod ar gaisrolos uSedegod. Tanac

giorgi vaSaZe saerTo opoziciuri kandidatia

isanSi da amis ugulebelyofa ar gamova~

miscen iseT kandidats, romelic,

ubralod, ver daamarcxebs

„qarTuli ocnebis” kandidats.

_ arc maSin unda miscen xma,

Tu am kandidatis mxardamWere-

bi arian?

_ ara. im kandidatisTvis xmis

micema, romelic saxelisuflebo

kandidats ver daamarcxebs,

gaumarTlebelia. es maTi xmis

dakargva iqneba.

yvelam metad unda daafasos

Tavisi erTi xma da ubralod ar

gaisrolos uSedegod. Tanac

giorgi vaSaZe saerTo opoziciuri

kandidatia isanSi da amis

ugulebelyofa ar gamova.

_ raki vaSaZe saerTo opozi-

ciuri kandidatia, amitom unda

dauWiros mas xalxma mxari?

_ is aris erTaderTi realuri

kandidati opoziciidan, visac

SeuZlia „ocnebis” kandidatis

damarcxeba. isanSi mTavari

brZola „qarTul ocnebasa” da

giorgi vaSaZes Soris imarTeba.

_ Zalian didi miTqma-moTq-

ma mohyva „nacionalebis” saar-

Cevno sias. iTqva, rom vaSaZem

Tavis gundTan erTad am Semad-

genlobis gamo datova „Zala

erTobaSia”. es asea?

_ diax. es skandaluri saarCevno

siac iyo mizezi imisa, rom

„Zala erTobaSia” davtoveT,

romlis SeqmnaSic giorgi vaSaZes

lomis wili aqvs Setanili.

giorgi vaSaZe momxre iyo da

aris ganaxlebis, axali saxeebis.

is gzas uxsnis politikaSi energiul,

mondomebul, saqmeze

orientirebul adamianebs. amis

naTeli magaliTi var mec.

udavod didia giorgis wvlili

imaSi, rom me axla aqtiurad var

politikaSi CarTuli. Tumca im

formatSi es ar xerxdeboda da

faqti saxezea. Tanac giorgis

premierobis kandidatoba ubralo

axireba ar gaxlavT.

_ Zalian bevri fiqrobs, rom

vaSaZe premierobisTvis mzad ar

aris. premieroba martivi namd-

vilad ar iqneba.

18

18 N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.


saxelisuflebo kandidats Soris gaimarTeba~

_ giorgi vaSaZes aqvs gambedaoba,

survili da SesaZlebloba

imisa, rom qveyana gaxdes axali

perspeqtivis mqone. mas Seu-

Zlia iyos xalxze orientirebuli

da mzrunveli premieri. zustad

vici, 24 saaTi imuSavebs da

kabinetSi jdomis nacvlad xalx-

Tan axlos iqneba.

_ „strategia aRmaSenebeli”

miiCnevs, rom is aris gausvre-

li Zala da saqmis mkeTebeli

gundi. Tqveni oponentebi amboben,

rom Tqveni partiis ga-

keTebuli mxolod iusticiis

saxlia da gausvrelobisac ar

sjeraT. gauTaveblad saubrob-

en, rom giorgi vaSaZe da „strategia

aRmaSenebeli” ivaniSvi-

lis proeqtia.

_ diax, Cven namdvilad varT

sufTa warsulis, saqmis mkeTebelTa

gundi, romlis lideric

aris giorgi vaSaZe, opoziciis

axali lideri, romlis saxelsac

ukavSirdeba iusticiis saxlebi

saqarTveloSi, ukrainaSi „gotovo”,

antikorufciuli sasamarTlo,

eleqtronuli Sesyidvebis

platforma „prozoro” da sxv.

Cveni gundi dakompleqtebulia

sxvadasxva Taobis patiosani,

profesionali adamianebiT.

Cveni gundi aravis proeqti araa,

miT umetes, ivaniSvilis. Cveni

mTavari mizania, xelisuflebas

CamovaSoroT swored ivaniSvili

da misi banda damsxvreuli ocnebebis

prtiis saxiT.

TiToeul adamians, vinc Cvens

gundSia, gulwrfelad unda

qveyanaSi sasikeTo cvlilebebi

da isini TavianT codnasa da

gamocdilebas swored amaSi gamoiyeneben.

ukve erTi welia,

„strategia aRmaSeneblis” gundi

muSaobs qveynis ganviTarebis

programaze da gvaqvs droSi

gawerili samoqmedo gegma. sxva-

Ta Soris, yvelaze metad,

rogorc Cans, Cveni aqtivoba eCxireba

yelSi xelisuflebas da

jarima jarimaze mogvdis.

_ mgoni, sakmaod soliduri

Tanxa dagigrovdaT jarimis

saxiT.

_ karga xania, 100.000 lars

gadaaWarba Cvenma jarimebma.

_ risTvis gamogiweres amxe-

la jarimebi?

_ mxolod imitom gamogviweres,

rom xelmowerebs vagrovebdiT

pensionerebisTvis usamarTlod

maRali, 35-40-procentiani

ganakveTis CamowerasTan

dakavSirebiT. Tbilisis meriasTan

aqciaze Cveni gundis wevrebi

daakaves. 15 oqtombers gvaqvs

CaniSnuli debatebi giorgi

vaSaZesa da ivaniSvilis mier

daniSnul premier giorgi gaxarias

Soris sazogadoebrivi mauwyeblis

eTerSi.

_ dasTanxmda gaxaria de-

batebs?

_ jer ar viciT. erTad vnaxoT,

ras gadawyvets biZina, gamouSvebs

Tu ara gaxarias vaSaZesTan

sadebatod.

_ „strategia aRmaSenebels”

mkafiod aqvs aseTi politika:

opoziciam rac ar unda talaxi

`Cven namdvilad varT sufTa warsulis, saqmis mkeTebelTa gundi, romlis

lideric aris giorgi vaSaZe, opoziciis axali lideri, romlis saxelsac

ukavSirdeba iusticiis saxlebi saqarTveloSi, ukrainaSi `gotovo~,

antikorufciuli sasamarTlo, eleqtronuli Sesyidvebis platforma

`prozoro~ da sxv. Cveni gundi dakompleqtebulia sxvadasxva Taobis

patiosani, profesionali adamianebiT. Cveni gundi aravis proeqti araa, miT

umetes, ivaniSvilis. Cveni mTavari mizania, xelisuflebas CamovaSoroT

swored ivaniSvili da misi banda damsxvreuli ocnebebis prtiis saxiT~

gesroloT, pasuxs ar gascemT.

amaze ras fiqrobT, swori gada-

wyvetilebaa?

_ diax, swori gadawyvetilebaa,

Cveni oponentebi opoziciis

warmomadgenlebi ar arian,

Cveni mTavari oponenti xelisuflebaa.

Tu partiebi ibrZvian

imisTvis, rom daamtkicon vinaa

maT Soris uaresi, Cven am dros

uars vambobT dapirispirebasa

da kinklaobaze. xalxs es ar ainteresebs,

xalxs amisTvis ar

scxela.

_ ratom ggoniaT, rom xalxs

kinklaoba ar ainteresebs? aseT

ambebs yovelTvis didi rezo-

nansi mosdevs.

_ lanZRva-ginebaze awyobili

winasaarCevno kampania karg Sedegs

aravis moutans. rac male gaiazrebs

amas yvela politikuri

Zala, miT ukeTesi iqneba Tavad

maTTvis, xalxisTvisa da qveynisTvis.

sjobs, saqmis keTebaze

orientirebulebi viyoT. opoziciuri

partiebis kinklaoba mxolod

biZina ivaniSvilis wisqvilze

asxams wyals. yvelaze metad

swored „qarTuli ocnebis”

liders awyobs xalxis yuradRebis

moduneba da opoziciuri

partiebis erTmaneTTan dapirispireba,

amitom Cven ar vmonawileobT

msgavss scenarebSi.

_ bolo periodSi uamravi

kvleva gamoqveynda, win kidev

bevri kvlevaa. ramdenad endobiT

am reitingebs da ga-

ZlevT Tu ara is reitingebi

optimizmis safuZvels?

_ yvela kvleva aCvenebs, rom

Cveni partia, „strategia aRmaSenebeli”,

aris erTaderTi

partia, visi reitingic mzardia.

es Zalian mniSvnelovania da imas

niSnavs, rom kidev gvaqvs resursi,

meti mxardaWera movipovoT,

e. i. swor gzaze vdgavarT.

_ amitom ar aprotestebT

kvlevebs?

_ sociologiuri kvlevebis

gardac Cven TviTon vxedavT,

yoveldRiurad rogor vizrdebiT

da vZlierdebiT, Cveni raionuli

organizaciebi farTovdeba.

asobiT mxardamWeri registrirdeba

yoveldRe Cvens monacemTa

bazebSi.

_ saqarTveloSi gadauwyveteli

amomrCeveli isev mrav-

ladaa. amomrCevels xelisufleba

saSinlad ar moswons, ma-

gram verc opoziciaSi xedavs

iseT Zalas, romelsac SeiZleba,

xma misces. SeZlebs opozicia

am xalxis arCevnebze miyvanas?

bevri fiqrobs, rom opozi-

cia garigebulia ivaniSvilTan

da arCevnebze wasvlas azri ar

aqvs.

_ Cveni mTavari amocana swored

esaa, _ adamianebi mividnen

arCevnebze da irwmunon, rom ma-

Ti erTi xma gadamwyvetia arCevnebSi

cvlilebebisTvis. me yvela

saSualebas viyeneb amisTvis.

visargebleb SemTxveviT da

Tqveni gazeTis furclebidanac

mivmarTav gansakuTrebiT socialurad

daucvel adamianebs,

mravalSvilian ojaxebs, martoxela

dedebs, xandazmulebs, SezRuduli

SesaZleblobis mqone

pirebs, pensionerebs, _ ar dar-

`visargebleb SemTxveviT da Tqveni gazeTis

furclebidanac mivmarTav gansakuTrebiT

socialurad daucvel adamianebs,

mravalSvilian ojaxebs, martoxela dedebs,

xandazmulebs, SezRuduli SesaZleblobis

mqone pirebs, pensionerebs, - ar darCeT

saxlSi, aucileblad modiT arCevnebze da

arCevani gaakeTeT guliT da gonebiT.

gaxsovdeT, rom arCevnebi aris faruli da

veravin gaigebs, vis mieciT xma. Tqveni erTi

xma ki gadamwyvetia da Tqvenzea damokidebuli

Tqveni da qveynis bedi. an Seicvleba Tqveni

cxovreba ukeTesobisken, an kidev ufro

gausaZlisi gaxdeba arseboba~

CeT saxlSi, aucileblad modiT

arCevnebze da arCevani gaakeTeT

guliT da gonebiT. gaxsovdeT,

rom arCevnebi aris faruli da

veravin gaigebs, vis mieciT xma.

Tqveni erTi xma ki gadamwyvetia

da Tqvenzea damokidebuli

Tqveni da qveynis bedi. an Seicvleba

Tqveni cxovreba ukeTesobisken,

an kidev ufro gausaZlisi

gaxdeba arseboba. diax, arseboba,

imitom rom yvelaze kargad

im adamianebma viciT, rogoria

gaWirvebaSi myofi adamianebis

yofa _ esaa arseboba, brZola

gadarCenisTvis. darwmunebuli

var, rom dRes arsebuli

politikosebidan yvelaze ukeTesad

me SevZleb davicva Tqveni

interesebi da nomeri 27-is

SemoxazviT momcemT amis Zalas.

darwmunebuli rom ar viyo, arc

mogmarTavdiT.

_ biZina ivaniSvili da misi

partia prognozireben, rom 31

oqtombers CaniSnul arCevnebs

isev „qarTuli ocneba” moigebs.

partiis lideri ambobs, 63%-

mde aviRebTo. Tqven rogor

fiqrobT, es „ocnebis” momxree-

bis gamxnevebaa, Tu dakveTa

ceskosTvis, rom biZina ivaniS-

vilis partiam 63% unda aiRos?

_ Cemi azriT, biZina ivaniSvili

realobas mowyvetilia. man

da misma damsxvreuli ocnebebis

partiam xalxs arc erTi dapireba

ar Seusrula. samuSao

adgilebis Seqmnas dahpirda da

200.000 axali samuSao adgilis

nacvlad, ra samuSao adgilebic

iyo, isic davkargeT.

_ es samuSao adgilebi ko-

ronapandemiis dros Semcirda

Tu Semcirebis procesi ufro

adre daiwyo?

_ adrec Semcirda da pandemiis

drosac. magaliTad 45.000 samuSao

adgiliT Semcirda kerZo seqtor-

Si. xelisuflebam moatyua xalxi,

rom TiTqos eleqtroenergiisa da

bunebrivi airis fasi Semcirdeboda,

sinamdvileSi ki gaizarda. arc

samarTliani sasamarTlo gvaqvs

da xalxi samarTals ver poulobs,

policiisa da prokuraturis depolitizeba

ar moxda. gaizarda

kriminali. ufro gaRaribda xalxi

da aTasobiT adamiani SimSilobs.

Sesabamisad, biZina ivaniSvilis

„qarTuli ocneba” veRar moigebs

arCevnebs, Tumca is yvelanairad

ecdeba xelisuflebis SenarCunebas

da araferze ukan ar daixevs.

_ ukan daxevas arc opozicia

apirebT. kerZod, opozicia Se-

TanxmdiT, rom arCevnebis dRes

daicavT amomrCevlis xmebs.

rogor apirebT amis gakeTebas.

gaqvT rame gegma?

_ xmebis dacvaze muSaobs opoziciuri

partiebis warmomadgenlebis

jgufi. specialuri sistema

iqmneba, romlis prezentaciac

uaxloes xanebSi gaimarTeba. rac

Seexeba saarCevno ubanze myofi

opoziciuri partiebis warmomadgenlebs,

isini daicaven erTmane-

Tis xmebs, rac Zalian mniSvnelovani

komponentia xmebis dacvis

saerTo saqmeSi.

N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.

19


dRes visaubrebT ojaxze, romlis

wevrebic erT misamarTze ar

arian registrirebulni...

visaubrebT ojaxze, sadac xSirad

wydeba am qveynis bedic da am

qveynis moqalaqeebis iRbalic...

visaubrebT ojaxze, romelic

2012 wlamde, ubralod, arsad

Canda...

visaubrebT ojaxze, sadac

ojaxis „Tavi” am qveynis „ruxi

kardinalia”...

visaubrebT ojaxze, romelsac

am qveynis oligarqi ivaniSvili,

mgoni, yvelaze metad endoba...

visaubrebT ucnobi kacis ucnob

mxareebze...

visaubrebT misi meuRlis

qonebazec...

lela...

igi sajarod ar Cans...

meuRlis msgavsad ar uyvars

sazogadoebaSi triali...

Tavis naWuWSi gamoketili

ojaxis qalis STabeWdilebas

tovebs, romelic CrdilSi myofi

kardinalis Tanamecxedrea...

lela uCa mamacaSvilis colia...

uCa mamacaSvilis saregistracio

misamarTze mxolod is fiqsirdeba,

rac eWvs aCens, rom mamacaSvils

ar surda, sazogadoebisTvis,

mediisTvis Tu samoqalaqo

seqtorisTvis martivad misagnebi

yofiliyo misi meuRlis sacxovrebeli

saxlis registraciis

misamarTi...

Sesabamisad, mignebis Semdeg

martivi gaxdeboda wvdoma im

qonebis Sesaxeb, romelsac misi

ojaxi flobs.

rogorc Cans, qorwinebis Semdeg

mamiseuli gvari kokilaSvili

ar daitova da meuRlis gvarze

gadavida. daibada da gaizarda

sofel gremSi... axla vakeSi

cxovrobs...

xelmocaruli namdvilad ar

aris _ aqvs qoneba da gavlenebic...

uCas Tanamecxedre lelas qo-

uCa mamacaSvilis qonebis anatomiidan

ojaxi _ qorwinebisa Tu naTe-

maka mosiaSvili

saobis safuZvelze Seqmnili mci-

599 97 25 55

re socialuri jgufi, romlis wevrebic

dakavSirebuli arian erT-

maneTTan yofa-cxovrebis erTianobiT, urTierTmxardaWeriTa

da moraluri pasuxismgeblobiT.

saqarTvelos samoqalaqo samarTlis mixedviT, ojaxi qalisa

da mamakacis nebayoflobiTi kavSiria, romelic registr-

irebulia saxelmwifo organoSi. ramdenadac, samarTlebrivi

TvalsazrisiT, mxolod aseTi registracia warmoSobs meuRle-

Ta Soris garkveul uflebebsa da movaleobebs, xolo

saqarTvelos samoqalaqo kodeqsis 147-e muxlis Tanaxmad:

„qoneba aris yvela nivTi da aramaterialuri qonebrivi sikeTe,

romelTa flobac, sargebloba da gankargva SeuZliaT fiz-

ikur da iuridiul pirebs da romelTa SeZenac SeiZleba

SeuzRudavad, Tuki es akrZaluli ar aris kanoniT an ar ewi-

naaRmdegeba zneobriv normebs”.

nebrivi anatomia ki ase gamoiyureba:

flobs 600 kv.m sasoflosameurneo

miwis nakveTs qalaq

TbilisSi, Tengiz gazdelianis q.

#15 a -Si;

aseve amave quCis, gazdelianis

#15-Si flobs sasoflo-sameurneo

miwis nakveTs (1000 kv.m.);

qalaq TbilisSi, mixeil TamaraSvilis

#10-Si flobs 203 kv.m.

binas;

qalaq TbilisSi, bagebis satyeo

ubanSi flobs arasasoflosameurneo

miwis nakveTs (965.00

kv.m.);

mamacaSvilis meuRle flobs

venaxebsa da saxnav-saTess miwebs

kaxeTSic;

kaxeTSi mamisgan sofel grem-

Si CuqebiT aqvs miRebuli 1382

kv.m. sasoflo-sameurneo sakarmidamo

nakveTi;

sofel gremSi 2013 wels nasyidobiT

SeZenili aqvs 4642 kv.m. sasoflo-sameurneo

miwis nakveTi;

2014 wels sofel gremSi lela

mamacaSili kvlav yidulobs sasoflo-sameurneo

daniSnulebis

farTs _ 1208 kv.m.;

aseve Cuqebis saxiT aqvs miRebuli

sofel gremSi sasoflosameurneo

saxnavi miwis nakveTi

(5465 kv.m.).

jamurad, lela mamacaSvili

mxolod kaxeTSi flobs 12000

kv.m.-ze met farTs...

mflobelis keTilsindisiereba

Tu arakeTilsindisiereba subieqturi

Sefasebis sagania da

maTSi vlindeba piris damokidebuleba

nivTis flobis samarTlebrivi

safuZvlisadmi.

xolo mflobelis kanoniereba

Tu ukanonoba obieqturi, normatiuli

nebis Sefasebis sagania.

Tumca kaxeTis siyvarulSi

arc meuRle Camouvardeba lelas.

sajaro reestris oficialur

gverdze uCa mamacaSvilis 2014

col-qmar

mamacaSvilebis

kaxuri qoneba

wlis qonebis mixedviT mas gur-

jaanis municipalitetis sofel

kardenaxSi sasoflo-sameurneo

saxnavi miwebi aqvs e.w. uroebSi.

kerZod, oTxi miwis nakveTi ase

gamoiyureba:

6000kv.m.; 1400 kv.m.; 1865 kv.m.;

859 kv.m. jamurad, uCa mamacaSvili

kaxeTSi 10000 kv.m.-ze

flobs venaxebs.

aseve venaxebi aqvs gaSenebuli

gremSi mis meuRlesac.

mamacaSvilebis ojaxi kaxeli

glexebisa da agronomebisgan gansxvavebiT

arc venaxis gasxvlaSi

monawileobs, arc gadakavebaSi,

arc mowamvlaSi, arc dakrefasa

da arc dawurvaSi...

mamacaSvilebis ojaxi arc im

grZel rigebSi dgas, sadac glexebi

amaod cdiloben yurZnis

Cabarebas kvirebis manZilze...

mamacaSvilebis ojaxi arc kaxelobs,

magram qonebas ki

agrovebs kaxeTSi...

mamacaSvilebis ojaxis gurjaaneli

mouravi gurjaanis

sakrebulos Tavmjdomare vano

beriZiSvilia, romelic, ager

ukve, meore mowvevas asrulebs

da jer ar daRlila... misi pirdapiri

movaleobaa uCasa da biZinas

venaxis movla-patronoba.

rogorc gurjaanSi amboben,

beriZiSvilis Tavmjdomareoba

ganapiroba iman, rom mamamisi,

Salva beriZiSvili, sofel bakurcixeSi

biZina ivaniSvilisa da kardenaxSi

uCa mamacaSvilis venaxebsa

da nakveTebs uvlis. beriZi-

Svili dRemde bednieria da aravin

da araferi uSlis mas xels...

Tuki obieqturi faqtorebi

TviT mflobelobis mdgomareobis

bed-iRbals gansazRvravs,

subieqturi faqtorebi, Ziri-

Tadad, TviT mflobelis uflebriv

mdgomareobaze axdens

gavlenas. anu kanonieri iqneba

mflobeloba, romelic emyareba

kanonis normatiul nebas.

dRevandeli masala amiT dasruldeba...

dRevandel masalas eqneba

gagrZeleba „arqi jgufze”...

cnobili qmris ucnobi meuRlis

qonebis anatomia amiT ar

sruldeba...

`lela uCa mamacaSvilis colia...

uCa mamacaSvilis saregistracio misamarTze

mxolod is fiqsirdeba, rac eWvs aCens, rom

mamacaSvils ar surda, sazogadoebisTvis,

mediisTvis Tu samoqalaqo seqtorisTvis

martivad misagnebi yofiliyo misi meuRlis

sacxovrebeli saxlis registraciis

misamarTi... Sesabamisad, mignebis Semdeg

martivi gaxdeboda wvdoma im qonebis Sesaxeb,

romelsac misi ojaxi flobs~

20

20 N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.

maka mosiaSvili

599 97 25 55

kaxeTis erT-erT azerbaijanul

sofels dRemde patara oligarqi marTavs. es mmarTvelo-

ba ki, daaxloebiT, ukve 13 welia, rac grZeldeba.

duzagrameli minioligarqi,

rogorc misi Tanasoflelebi

gviyvebian, oTar farcxalaZis

megobari da kadria. is sofelSi

farcxalaZesTan erTad gadaRebul

fotos aCvenebs adgilobrivebs

da eubneba, _ iciT, es vin

aris? es mkvlelia! da Cemi megobaria!

_ es sityvebi adgilobrivebisTvis

sakmarisia, rom mixvdnen,

ra elodebaT, Tu mas SeewinaaRmdegebian...

iormuRanlos TemSi narkotikebi

aqtiurad iyideba... amaze

cota qvemoT, manamde ki gavicnoT

duzagrameli minioligarqi.

sazogadoebam is 2012 wlis

agvistos gaicno, rogorc soflis

gamgebeli. maSin arCevnebis

monitoringi ase afasebda movlenas:

„sofel iormuRanloSi, bazris

mimdebare teritoriaze,

koalicia „qarTuli ocnebis” sagarejos

maJoritari deputatobis

kandidati, Tina xidaSeli,

amomrCevelTan Sexvdras marTavda,

sadac adgilobrivi xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebi mividnen

da Sexvedris CaSlas Seecadnen.

Sexvedra mogvianebiT Cxubsa

da Jurnalisturi saqmianobisTvis

xelis SeSlaSi gadaizarda.

fizikur dapirispirebaSi aqtiurad

monawileobdnen sofel

duzagramis gamgebeli muxtar

ismailovi, sofel lambalos

gamgebeli alaxiar abdulaevi,

sofel Tularis deputati sakrebuloSi

veqil veqilovi, sofel

qeSalos gamgebel TavTux kaWievis

disSvili da gamgeobis TanamSromeli,

adre nasamarTlevi

ilgar gajievi.

momxdari incidentis Semdeg

policiam mxolod koalicia „qarTuli

ocnebis” saarCevno Stabis

wevrebi: mubariz mamedovi da

naTik rasulovi daakava”.

maSin winasaarCevno kampaniaSi

xelis SeSlis braldebiT Tina-

Tin xidaSelma sofel iormuRanlos

policiaSi duzagramis gamgeblis

winaaRmdeg saCivari Seitana.

male xelisufleba Seicvala.

duzagramis gamgebeli ramdenime

TviT gaaTavisufles, magram,

ratomRac, viRac ucxo xelma

sistemaSi misi kvlav dabruneba

gadawyvta. arada, muxtar ismailovi

wina xelisuflebis erTguli

mxardamWeri da morCili

iyo 2007 wlidan.

sul raRac erTi Tvis win ismailovma

sazogadoebas kvlav

Seaxsena Tavi _ sagarejos raionis

sofel duzagramaSi colqmarze

fizikurad iZalades da

maT mokvliT daemuqrnen. rogorc

dazaralebulebi hyvebodnen,

Tavdamsxmeli soflis gamgeblis

Svili, ismailovis vaJia,

Tumca igi mas Semdeg daakaves,

rac ambavi mediam gaaSuqa. ismailovis

vaJis dakavebis Semdeg

ojaxi soflisgan izolirebulia,

radgan icis, rom mas axla

mamis, duzagramis gamgeblis risxva

ar ascdeba da aucileblad,

dRes Tu xval, gauswordebian...

arada, 2014 wels sagarejos

municipalitetiSi Catarebuli

testirebiT dadginda, rom muxtar

ismailovma sajaro moxele-

Ta SesarCev konkursSi ver gadalaxa

testirebis etapze dawesebuli

minimaluri kompetenciis

zRvari, ris gamoc is dakavebuli

postidan ganTavisuflda. kerZod

ki kaci, romelic jer „nacionalebs”

hyavdaT gamgeblad,

mogvianebiT ki „ocnebam” waiyvana,

wera-kiTxvis ucodinaria. ubralod,

man arc erT enaze _ arc

qarTulad da arc azerbaijanulad

_ wera-kiTxva ar icis...

magram am wera-kiTxvis ucodinarma

kacma SeZlo da soflis

`roca ki policieli Sedis, umal yvelam icis.

es Taviseburi dasaxlebaa, iormuRanlos Temis

saxlebi galavnebiTa da rkinis WiSkrebiT aris

daculi da maTi Semtvreva, iq Sesvla da

Cxreka Zneldeba. amasobaSi swrafad

anadgureben narkotiks, magaliTad, tualetSi

CauSveben, zogs miwaSi aqvs Camarxuli. arada,

mtkicebuleba Tu ar gaqvs, gamsaRebels ver

daiWer. bolo etapi Zalian riskiania.

informaciebi arsebobs, rom iormuRanlos

Temis soflebSi im maRaziebSi, romelTac

Segnebulad ar aqvT kamerebi damontaJebuli,

swored iq xdeba maTi realizacia~

N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.


visi uxilavi

xeli mfarvelobs

narkobizness

iormuRanloSi?

narkotrefikis gza

kavkasiaze da

narkotikebis Ria

bazari sagarejos

azerbaijanul TemSi

bis pirobebSi moxda.

rogorc adgilobrivebi hyvebian,

muxtar ismailovma saxelmwifo

miwebi simbolur fasad Seisyida.

dauflebis Semdeg ramden-

elSad ismailovi

miwebi ukanonod gaasxvisa da

dokumentaciac gaayalba.

2016 wlis ivnisSi ki duzagramis

mcxovrebTa nawilma aqcia

gamarTa da sofelSi gamgeblis

warmomadgenlis gadadgoma

moiTxova. maT ismailovi Tanasoflel

seimur niazovis cemaSi

daadanaSaules. dazaralebulis

ojaxis wevrebis gancxadebiT,

sofel duzagramis rwmunebulma

niazovs blagvi sagniT TavSi

Wriloba miayena. adgilobrivebma

sofelSi gamgeblis warmomadgeneli

miwebis ukanonod gasxvisebasa

da dokumentebis gayalbebaSic

amxiles.

maSin momxdarze Zieba daiwyo

sisxlis samarTlis kodeqsis 120-

e muxliT, rac janmrTelobis

ganzrax msubuq dazianebas

gulisxmobs.

Tumca duzagramis testirebaze

CaWrili gamgebeli maleve

aRadgines samsaxurSi da kvlav

daubrunes iormuRanlos Tems

„qurdad”.

ismailovis biografia mravalferovania:

sofel duzagramis

rwmunebulma, muxtar ismailovma,

soflis miwebi Seisyida

da Semdeg 50 aTasad gaasxvisa. es

yvelaferi dRevandeli mTavroime

weliwadSi muxtar ismailovma

es miwebi sxvebs Seasyidina,

daaxloebiT 5-jer Zvirad, vidre

saxelmwifosgan hqonda nayidi.

muxtar ismailovis meore vaJi,

elSad ismailovi, moqmedi policielia,

rac imas niSnavs, rom

igi mamis da aw ukve dapatimrebuli

Zmis kriminalur saqmianobas

xels afarebs.

ismailovi gamoirCeva rogorc

erT-erTi moZalade, winasaarCvnod

motivirebuli soflis gamgebeli,

romelic soflis mcxovreblebs

afrTxilebs, Tu mxars ar

dauWeren imas, visac is etyvis,

maSin is Tanasoflelebs fizikurad

gauswordeba an misi vaJi

maT narkotikebs Caudebs...

„qronika+“-is wyaros infor-

maciiT:

_ saqarTveloSi narkotiki

Semodis, aq mas ar awarmoeben

(CvenTan mxolod marixuanis kultivacias

ewevian da isic qoTnebSi

an baRebSi mohyavT). azerbaijanelebi

heroiniT vaWroben,

romlis mTavari mwarmoebel-gamavrcelebeli

avRaneTia. heroini

avRaneTidan jer azerbaijanSi,

iqidan ki saqarTveloSi xvdeba,

Tumca saqarTvelosa da azerbaijanSi

es saSualeba im xarisxis

ar aris, rogoric _ adgilze.

saqarTveloSi Semotanili mZime

narkotikebis 80% marixuanaa,

meore adgilzea heroini (romelic,

ZiriTadad, Rarib qveynebSi

Sedis), mesameze _ kokaini. is yvelaze

naklebi odenobiT Semodis,

radgan Zviri da elituri narkotikia.

arsebobs narkotrefikingis

ramdenime marSruti, romelTagan

35 samxreT kavkasiaze gadis,

maT Soris, azerbaijansa da

saqarTveloze. saerTaSoriso

narkobiznesi narkotikebis gadasazidad

saqarTvelos okupirebul

teritoriebsac iyenebs.

CvenTan narkotiki yvelaze

martivad azerbaijanidan xvdeba,

dafasoebuli Semodis da mas

barigebi avrceleben. nebismierma

narkomanma icis, sad aris es

wertilebi, vin arian narkorealizatorebi

da maTi gamovlena

arc ise didi problemaa. wlebia,

rac sagarejos azerbaijanuli

dasaxleba TemSi narkomanebisa

da narkotikebiT movaWreTa

budea. SegviZlia Tamamad vTqvaT,

rom aq narkotikebis Ria bazaria.

roca ki policieli Sedis,

umal yvelam icis. es Taviseburi

dasaxlebaa, iormuRanlos Temis

saxlebi galavnebiTa da rkinis

WiSkrebiT aris daculi da maTi

Semtvreva, iq Sesvla da Cxreka

Zneldeba. amasobaSi swrafad

anadgureben narkotiks, magali-

Tad, tualetSi CauSveben, zogs

miwaSi aqvs Camarxuli. arada,

mtkicebuleba Tu ar gaqvs, gamsaRebels

ver daiWer.

bolo etapi Zalian riskiania.

informaciebi arsebobs, rom

iormuRanlos Temis soflebSi im

maRaziebSi, romelTac Segnebulad

ar aqvT kamerebi damonta-

Jebuli, swored iq xdeba maTi

realizacia.

_ ki magram iormuRanloSi

ramdenime sofelia!

_ asea, Tumca maTgan gansakuTrebiT

gamoirCeva duzagrama.

am sofelSi pirdapiri wesiT

midis aReb-micemoba... uaresi:

soflis adgilobrivebi, Ziri-

Tadad, sul narkotikuli Trobis

qveS arian...

_ ras akeTebs xelisufleba?

_ verafers. ara marto imitom,

rom iq specopercia rTulad

Casatarebelia, aramed imitom,

rom iq procesebs uCinari xeli

mfraveleobs... vinc xels uwyobs

narkotikebis iqamde mitanas. arc

adgilobrivi xelisufleba iRebs

xmas... es, ubralod, zemodan

gadawyvetili da mogvarebuli

saqmea... rTulia im sofelSi wesrigis

dacva, sadac kanonis nacvlad

soflis gamgeblis muSti

moqmedebs... uaxloes periodSi

did bombs miviRebT am teritoriidan

_ iseTs, rogorsac arc

ki veliT...

21

mokled, ratom wamovida

„Zala erTobaSiadan”? ras ambobs

mixeil saakaSvilze? elodeba

Tu ara igi qveyanaSi pandemiis

dramatulad ganviTare-

bas? _ „qronika+~ gTavazobT in-

tervius aw ukve „strategia aRmaSeneblis”

wevr manana jebaS-

vilTan:

_ qalbatono manana, saubris

dawyebas gazrdili koronas-

tatistikiT vapirebdi, magram

„strategia aRmaSeneblis” sapa-

rlamento siis oceulSi gnaxeT,

anu „nacionaluri moZraoba” da-

toveT?

_ „nacionaluri moZraoba” me

ki ara, „saqarTvelos parlamentarTa

sazogadoebam” gaerTianebuli

opozicia _ „Zala erToba-

Siam” datova. sxvaTa Soris, Cven

Semdeg gaerTianeba SoTa malaSxias

partiamac datova da rogorc

axla gamoCnda, is gaerTianeba,

romelic 12 politikuri

subieqtisgan Sedgeboda da saprezidento

arCevnebSi, praqtikulad,

gaimarjva, aRar arsebobs.

_ damikonkreteT, „Zala er-

TobaSia” ratom datoveT?

_ amis mizezi Rirebulebebis

Tanxvedris ararsebobaa.

_ kerZod?

_ am sakiTxs ufro detalurad

ar Sevexebi, vinaidan axla, am

karze momdgari arCevnebis win,

opoziciis kritikis dro ar aris,

Tumca erTs mainc vityvi: sanam

iuridiulad dafuZndeboda,

manamde viyavi am partiis erT-er-

Ti aqtiuri wevri. eqimTa arasamTavrobo

organizacia _ „jansa-

Ri saxelmwifos paradigma”, erTerTi

pirveli iyo, romelic mixeil

saakaSvilis gverdiT Rirseulad

dadga da gamarjvebisTvis

TavdadebiT ibrZola.

gamarjvebis Semdegac Cems

Tavze mravalma qartexilma gadaiara,

magram Sroma da brZola

qveynis sakeTildReod arasodes

Semiwyvetia, xan _ saxelmwifo

struqturebSi, xan _ arasamTavrobo

seqtoridan da rac mTavaria,

saxelmwifo interesebze ma-

Rla piradi keTildReoba arasodes

damiyenebia! ase rom, enm-sTan

kavSiris gawyveta arcTu advili

iyo, magram aqac gadawyvetileba

RirebulebiTi principis sasargeblod

miviRe, vinaidan am partiam

Sinaarsi Seicvala da mxolod

am or sityvas _ „nacionaluri

22


`130 000 vaqcina Zalian cotaa

16-17 wlis winaT gavicani _ ma-

giorgi abaSiZe

Sin parlamentari da „naciona-

luri” umravlesobis wevri iyo.

saerTod, Cemi, lamis, 30-wliani Jurnalisturi saqmianobisas

araerT politikoss Sevxvedrivar, magram am qalbatonma Cemi

yuradReba imTaviTve Tavisi sidinjiTa da wesierebiT miipyro...

wlebi gadioda, erTmaneTs xangamoSvebiT vxvdebodiT da bolo

wuTamde megona, rac ar unda moxdes, „nacionalur moZraobas”

ar datovebs-meTqi, magram ramdenime dRis win cnobili gaxda,

rom manana jebaSvili „strategia aRmaSeneblis” saparlamento

siis oceulis wevria. raRa dagimaloT da, gamikvrida, amitom

maSinve gadavwyvite, Sevxmianebodi da gamerkvia, „Zala erToba-

Sia” „strategia aRmaSenebels” ratom amjobina? amas garda,

manana jebaSvils koronaviTarebazec vesaubre _ qalbatoni

manana eqimia da, yvelafers Tavi rom davaneboT, jandacvis

sistemaSi arsebul xarvezebs zedmiwevniT kargad icnobs.

moZraoba” _ ver mivejaWvebodi.

maxsovs 2003 wels, uZlieresi,

aqtiuri, meamboxe, gonieri,

Tavdadebuli da Tavganwiruli

„nacionaluri moZraoba” da

CemTvis rTulia, enm-s axlandel

mdgomareobas Seveguo! 2003

wels enm-m daamarcxa drakoni,

SevardnaZis saxiT, romelic dasavleTis

mier aRiarebuli iyo,

rogorc didi politikosi. amisgan

gansxvavebiT, 8 welia, ver

vamarcxebT erT fobiebiT Sepyrobil

kacs, romelsac mTeli

dasavleTi upirispirdeba.

mokled, minda, enm iseTi vixilo,

rogoric is „vardebis revolucis”

dros iyo. am partiis

mimarT Cemi pretenziebi, mgoni,

met-naklebad, gamovTqvi.

_ rogorc vici, mixeil

saakaSvilis mxardamWeri xarT.

giorgi vaSaZis mimarT ki mesame

prezidents, rbilad rom vTq-

vaT, simpaTia aRar aqvs, anu Tq-

veni da saakaSvilis gzebi gaiyo?

_ miSas momavalSi simpaTia

isev gauCndeba, rodesac darwmundeba,

rom giorgi vaSaZesa da

vano CxartiSvils Soris sxva kav-

Siri ar arsebobs, garda imisa,

rom igi misi colis biZaa. ise,

giorgi vaSaZis muSaobas da mis

dauSretel energias rom vuyureb,

miSa maxsendeba. qveyanas orives

energia, enTuziazmi, SemarTeba,

saqmis keTebis unari, niWi,

goniereba da keTildReobisa da

ganviTarebisaken swrafva sWirdeba.

dasakargi patrioti mamuli-

Svilebi ar gvyavs! amitom qveynis

aRmSeneblobaSi orives mTeli

guliT vusurveb warmatebas.

_ qalbatono manana, kidev er-

Txel davakonkretoT: „strategia

aRmaSenebeli” „Zala erTo-

baSias” ratom amjobineT?


qveynis ganviTarebis mwyobrad

gawerili gegma yvela dargSi

aqvs. saerTod, es martivi ar iyo.

_ anu?

_ amaze qarTveli da ucxoeli

eqspertebi vmuSaobdiT. arc er-

Ti reforma, romelsac „strategia

aRmaSenebeli” moicavs, pirdapir

gadmotanili ucxouri modeli

araa, is specialurad saqarTvelosTvis,

yvela qarTuli s-

pecifikis gaTvaliswinebiTaa Seqmnili.

„strategia aRmaSeneblis”

mizani xelisuflebis Secvla

imitom ki araa, rom xelisuflebaSi

TviTon movides, aramed

imitom, rom qveyana ise Secvalos,

sadac WeSmariti demokratia,

adamianis uflebebis dacva

da samarTlianoba iqneba, sadac

ar iqneba korufcia da nepotizmi,

sadac jansaRi ekonomika Ti-

Toeuli moqalaqis Rirseul Semosavals

uzrunvelyofs, sadac

pacientebs ucxoeTSi wasvlis

gareSe eqnebaT maRali xarisxis

mkurnalobis saSualeba da a. S.

_ axla ki koronaze gadavideT.

Tqven, rogorc profesion-

ali medikosi, ras fiqrobT,

koviddadebiTTa ricxvi naxt-

omiseburad ratom izrdeba, miT

umetes, im fonze, roca pirve-

li talRis dros xelisufleba

Tavs iwonebda kargi ki ara,

saukeTeso menejmentiT?

_ aqamde koronis talRa ar

gvqonia da pirveli talRa esaa.

manana jebaSvili:

`nacmoZraobam~

Sinaarsi Seicvala...

miSas isev

gauCndeba simpaTia

giorgi vaSaZis

mimarT!~

gazafxulze dawyebubuli pandemiis

dros xelisuflebam, karantinisa

da izolaciis xarjze,

karg Sedegs miaRwia. magram 7 Tve

jandacvis sistemis gasamarTad

unda gamoeyenebina, raTa axla

jandacvis kolafsisgan dazRveulni

vyofiliyaviT! mkacri karantinis

Semdeg moxsnili SezRudvebi,

bunebrivia, inficirebulTa

ricxvis zrdas gamoiwvevda.

is, rac gazafxulze evropa-

Si iyo, axla CvenTan dadga.

_ ise, eqimebis cnobili

sameuli miniSnebas sazogadoe-

baze akeTebs, wesebs ar icavso.

es samarTliani „braldebaa”?

_ braldebis saxiT ara, magram

mosaxleobas mec movuwodeb, rom

rekomendaciebi daicvas da, bolos

da bolos, skeptikosebmac

gaigon, rom kovidi ufro veragi

virusia, vidre _ sezonuri gri-

`2003 wels enm-m daamarcxa drakoni,

SevardnaZis saxiT, romelic dasavleTis mier

aRiarebuli iyo, rogorc didi politikosi.

amisgan gansxvavebiT, 8 welia, ver vamarcxebT

erT fobiebiT Sepyrobil kacs, romelsac

mTeli dasavleTi upirispirdeba.

mokled, minda, enm iseTi vixilo, rogoric is

`vardebis revoluciis~ dros iyo~

pi. mosaxleobis nawili, stresisagan

Tavis dasacavad problemis

uaryofas mimarTavs. es Zalian

cudia, vinaidan Tu fiqrob, rom

problema ar aris, maSin Tavsac

ar icav!

_ sxvaTa Soris, paata imnaZem

aWaraSi Seqmnili viTareba ita-

liisas Seadara. Tqveni dakvirvebiT,

marTlac asea Tu es gada-

Warbebuli paralelia?

_ aWaraSi Seqmnili mdgomareoba

italias uaxlovdeba, anu Tu

ase gagrZelda da, savaraudod,

gagrZeldeba, namdvilad igive

mdgomareobas miviRebT, rac

italiaSi iyo. ar dagaviwydeT,

rom inficirebulTa did raodenobas

italiis jandacvis sistemac

ver gaumklavda!

_ pandemiam sabolood naTe-

lyo, rom qarTuli jandacvis

sistema sruliad amorfulia?

_ daviwyoT imiT, rom roca

pacientebi cxel xazze rekaven

da simptomebs eubnebian, pasuxad

Rebuloben, es simptomebi

kovidisTvis damaxasiaTebeli ar

aris da testi ar gWirdebaTo.

kovidi Tavidan sxvadasxva simptomiT

iwyeba da yovelTvis

pirdapir sunTqvis ukmarisoba

ar viTardeba, amitom am diagnozis

telefoniT uaryofa mizanSeuwonlad

mimaCnia.

garda amisa, testirebisTvis

damatebiTi adgilebi aucileblad

geografiuli xelmisawvdomobis

mixedviT unda moewyos

(aqamdec unda yofiliyo). magaliTad,

aSS-Si pacienti tetsirebisTvis

uaxloes gamoyofil adgilze

manqaniT midis da tests manqanidan

gadmousvlelad uReben.

amasTan, CvenTan xSirad erT

sivrceSi arian daavadebuli, jer

ardadasturebuli da karantin-

Si myofi adamianebi. aseve Seferxebulia

testis pasuxi, romelsac,

xSirad, 72 saaTis Semdeg

iZlevian. arsebobs laboratoriebis

rezervi da ver vxvdebi,

ratom ar iyeneben, rom testis

pasuxi droulad iyos? agreTve

mniSvnelovania, rom samedicino

personali ar gadamzadebula,

rac imas gulisxmobs, rom saer-

22 N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.


da im Sedegs ver moitans~

TaSoriso masStabiT miRebuli

codna da gamocdileba yvelam _

pirveladi jandacvis rgolidan

dawyebuli, reanimaciis CaTvliT

_ unda icodes.

zogadad, saqarTveloSi eqTnebis

deficitia: Tu ganviTarebul

qveynebSi erT eqimze, minimum,

4 eqTani modis, saqarTvelo-

Si piriqiTaa _ eqimi eqTanze metia.

pandemiisa da epidemiebis

dros ki es probleba mkurnalobis

process friad azaralebs.

aseve mniSvnelovania eqTnebis

treningebi, rac ar tardeba. Tu

kovidis gavrceleba ase gagr-

Zeldeba, SesaZloa, sawolebis

deficitic ganviTardes, Tavisi

aRWurvilobiTa da adamianuri

resursiT.

_ zogi imasac ambobs, rom

koviddadebiTTa sikvdiliano-

bis zrda swored jandacvis

moumzadebeli sistemis bralia.

am mosazrebas iziarebT, qalba-

tono manana?

_ jandacva, miuxedavad imisa,

rom 7 Tve hqonda, kovidinficirebulTa

matebas moumzadebeli

Sexvda, magram es sikvdilianobis

zrdas ramdenad ukavSirdeba,

amis Tqma ar SemiZlia, vinaidan

saamisod sakiTxis kargad Seswavlaa

saWiro.

_ geTanxmebiT, rom xelisuflebas,

minimum, sami Tve hqonda,

raTa pandemiis meore tal-

RisTvis saTanadod momzadebu-

liyo, magram, Tqveni SefasebiT,

tikaraZis uwyebam es periodi

ratom ar gamoiyena?

_ jandacvis ministrs mosamzadeblad

pandemiis gamocxadebidan

7 Tve hqonda, magram

araferi gaakeTa, etyoba, imedi

hqonda, rom korona saqarTvelo-

Si ar gavrceldeboda, sxva axsnas

ver vpoulob.

_ gripis sezonis moaxloebis

paralelurad koronasituaciis

daZabvas elodebiT?

_ bunebrivia, sezonuri gripebis

koronasTan zeddeba pandemias

daamZimebs, amitom xelisuflebas

sezonuri gripebis vaqcinebi

ukve unda SeeZina da acrebic

didi xnis dawyebuli unda

hqonoda. sxvaTa Soris, evropaSi

es procesi pirveli seqtembridan

iwyeba. isic unda aRvniSnoT,

rom 130 000 vaqcina Zalian cotaa

da im Sedegs ver moitans, rac

pandemiis dros efeqtiani iqneba.

_ qalbatono manana, xom ar

ggoniaT, rom xelisufleba koronaambebs

politikuri mizneb-

isTvis gamoiyenebs da vTqvaT,

Tu arCevnebs ar gadadebs, 31

oqtombramde lokalur lokda-

unebs gamoacxadebs?

_ xelisufleba Tavis sasargeblod

yvelasa da yvelafers gamoiyenebs,

magram aWaris cota

xniT Caketva da aqedan mTeli resursis

regionSi epidafeTqebis

Casaqrobad gadasrola umjobesi

iqneboda, vinaidan axla, rodesac

virusi mTel saqarTveloSi

aWaridan vrceldeba, mis Sesakaveblad

resursi ar gveyofa da

procesi bunebrivi gadarCevis

principiT warimarTeba!

_ Tu ise moxda, rom arCevnebis

Semdeg qveynis saTaveSi ko-

N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.

`sazogadoebas minda vTxovo, rom aucileblad

wavides arCevnebze da Rirseuli arCevani

gaakeTos. sxva SemTxvevaSi siduxWire, siRatake,

gaunaTlebloba, korufcia, nepotizmi,

kriminalis zrda, demografiuli krizisi,

ekologiuri katastrofa Tu kulturuli

memkvidreobis ganadgureba gagrZeldeba~

aliciuri mTavroba marTla

movida, epidemiasTan brZolis

kuTxiT pirvelad ra nabijebs

gadadgams?

_ epidemiasTan sabrZolvelad

kargi infrastruqtura da, Sesabamisad,

momzadebuli adamianuri

resursi, aseve ufro moqnili

qmedebebis uzrunvelsayofad,

regulaciebis daxvewa da

mowesrigebaa saWiro.

_ saerTod, xelisuflebis Se-

cvlis Semdeg jandacvaSi ra sa-

xis reformebia gasatarebeli?

_ Cveni jandacvis reforma,

pirvel rigSi, sazogadoebrivi

jandacvisa da pirveladi jandacvis

rgolis gaZlierebas, aseve

jandacvis ZiriTad modelSi

iseTi cvlilebebis Setanas iTvaliswinebs,

romelic jandacvis

xarisxian servisebze pacientis

xelmisawvdomobas uzrunvely-

`giorgi vaSaZis muSaobas da mis dauSretel

energias rom vuyureb, miSa maxsendeba. qveyanas

orives energia, enTuziazmi, SemarTeba, saqmis

keTebis unari, niWi, goniereba da keTildReobisa

da ganviTarebisaken swrafva sWirdeba. dasakargi

patrioti mamuliSvilebi ar gvyavs!~

ofs. xarisxi, am SemTxvevaSi, mniSvnelovania,

vinaidan amis gamo

pacientebis garkveuli nawili

ucxoeTis qveynebSi gaedineba.

jandacvis erT-erTi umniSvnelovanesi

sakiTxi wamlis regulaciis

iseTi sakanonmdeblo

bazis Seqmnaa, romelic qveyanaSi

xarisxiani wamlis arsebobasa da

mis xelmisawvdomobas uzrunvelyofs.

amasTan dakavSirebiT

unda aRvniSnoT, rom saWiroa im

oligopoliebis daSla, sadc

wamlis Semomtanebi, distributorebi,

afTiaqis mflobelebi,

samedicino servisebis mimwodeblebi

da sadazRvevoebic erTi

da igive kompaniebi arian. Cveni

prioriteti onkologiuri daavadebebis

xarisxiani mkurnaloba

da finansuri uzrunvelyofacaa,

anu vgegmavT, rom am dargis

ganviTarebas maqsimalurad xeli

SevuwyoT. aseve aucilebelia

eleqtronuli jandacvis danergva

da telemedicinis ganvi-

Tareba. mniSvnelovania samedicino

ganaTlebis sistemis reformirebac,

misi uwyvetobis

principis damkvidreba, gaidlainebisa

da protokolebis danergva,

samedicino dargobrivi

asociaciebis gaZliereba da a. S.

_ qalbatono manana, vTqvaT,

ise moxda, rom „ocnebam” dem-

okratiis yvela wesi daarRvia

da xelisuflebaSi mesame vadiT

darCena gadawyvita, ase SemTxvevaSi

ra moxdeba, anu „strate-

gia aRmaSenebels” ra gegma aqvs?

_ „roca usamarTloba kanonad

iqceva, daumorCilebloba

movaleoba xdeba”, _ Tomas jefersonis

am sityvebs gavimeoreb.

_ jefersoni iqiT iyos da,

xmebis dacvas, mainc, rogor

apirebT?

_ xmebis dasacavad mTeli opoziciuri

speqtria mobilizebuli.

gavakeTeT erTiani xmebis dacvis

Stabi, romelSic partiebis

warmomadgenlebi Sedian. uyuradRebod

erTi darRvevac ar dar-

Ceba, anu yvela SemTxveva Stabsa

da saerTaSoriso organizaciebs

eleqtronulad miewodeba. sxva-

Ta Soris, arasamTavrobo organizaciebis

damkvirvebelTa didi

armiacaa mobilizebuli.


opoziciac esxmis Tavs, Sesabam-

isad, miTxariT, Tqvens konk-

urentad mxolod „ocnebas” miiCnevT

Tu opoziciis sxvadasx-

va frTasac?

_ arsebuli situacidan gamomdinare,

sruliad opozicias er-

Ti mizani aqvs, rom erTad daamarcxos

xelisufleba, aqedan gamomdinare,

erTmaneTTan brZola

ugunurebaa, rogorc amas zogierTi

partia akeTebs da saarCevno

kampaniis nacvlad, ramdenime

Tve giorgi vaSaZisTvis talaxis

srolaSi gaatares. miuxedavad

amisa, giorgi maTTan diskusiaSi

Segnebulad ar Caeba da sarCevno

kampania Rirseulad gaagrZela.

Sedegic saxezea _ izrdeba „strategia

aRmaSeneblis” amomrCevelTa

ricxvi, vinaidan xalxi gr-

Znobs, saqmis keTeba, saqarTvelos

winsvla da ganviTareba vis

unda da vis _ piradi keTildReoba

_ fuli da parlamentis skami!

politikosi Tu xar, ufro

didi ambicia unda gqondes, vidre

piradi keTildReobaa.

_ parlamentari adrec iyav-

iT. sakanonmdeblo organoSi

Sesvla isev ratom gadawyviteT?

_ 30 welia, erovnuli moZraobidan

moyolebuli, Cems profesiasTan

erTad (profesiiT eqimi

var), Cemi qveynis majaze midevs

xeli. samSoblosTvis brZola

Cemi axirebaa! am brZolaSi Cem-

Tvis saerTod ar aqvs mniSvneloba,

sad viqnebi _ parlamentSi,

aRmasrulebel xelisuflebasa

Tu arasamTavrobo seqtorSi.

rogorc giTxariT, 2003 wels

eqimTa arasamTavrobo organizacia

_ „jansaRi saxelmwifos paradigma”

erT-erTi pirveli iyo,

vinc miSas gverdiT dadga da gamarjvebisTvis

erTgulad da

TavdadebiT ibrZola.

Cven erovnuli moZraobis

drosac vibrZodiT, magram parlamentSi

Sesvla arc gvifiqria.

amaze arc 2003 wels gviocnebia.

CvenTvis mTavari iyo Sevardna-

Zis damarcxeba da miSas gamarjveba,

vinaidan zustad vicodiT,

rom miSa Cvens gaCanagebul sam-

Soblos sWirdeboda.

Cemi parlamentis wevroba ma-

Sinac TavisTavad moxda, situaciam

moitana da axlac, Tumca Tu

gamarjvebuli Sedixar, parlamentSi

saqmis keTebis ufro meti

berketi gaqvs!

_ bolos, qalbatono manana,

ra saTqmeli gaqvT sazogadoeb-

isTvis?

_ pirvel rigSi, sazogadoebas

minda vTxovo, rom aucileblad

wavides arCevnebze da Rirseuli

arCevani gaakeTos. sxva SemTxvevaSi

siduxWire, siRatake, gaunaTlebloba,

korufcia, nepotizmi,

kriminalis zrda, demografiuli

krizisi, ekologiuri

katastrofa Tu kulturuli memkvidreobis

ganadgureba gagrZeldeba.

amasTan, mosaxleobas

karl gustav manerhaimis sityvebsac

gavaxseneb: „saxelmwifos

idealistebi da patriotebi

aSeneben, vaWrukanebis, mstovrebisa

da karieristebis aSenebuli

qveyana aravis unaxavs”.

23


saqarTveloSi `koronavirusis~

ar Semova imitom, rom, ubral-

Tamar rostiaSvili

od, „jandacvis msoflio orga-

577 10 07 06

nizaciis” mier aseTi ratificirebuli

vaqcina ar arsebobs. globaluri

iniciativa vaqcinebis usafrTxoebis Sesaxeb dagegmarebis

fazaSia. sakiTxi exeba farmazedamxedvelobis ga-

Zlierebas uSualod vaqcinebis warmoebis procesSi.

vaqcinebis usafrTxoebis

globaluri iniciativa (GVSI)

2012 wlis TebervalSi Seiqmna

vaqcinebis usafrTxoebis globaluri

programis gansaxorcieleblad.

xsenebuli programis

strategiuli mizani sam mimarTulebas

moicavs:

1. daxmarebisa da mxardaWeris

aRmoCena yvela im qveynisTvis,

romelic mosaxleobis vaqcinirebas

iwyebs usafrTxoebisa

da riskis Semcirebis mizniT;

2. usafrTxoebis potencialis

Seswavla im qveynebSi, sadac

axali vaqcina pirvelad Sedis

da gamoiyeneba;

3. saerTaSoriso TanamSromlobis

kuTxiT mxardaWeris

vaqcinaciis fazaSi Sesuli qveynebisTvis

saganmanaTleblo

RonisZiebebis gamarTva da dagrovili

informaciis gacvla.

ar unda dagvaviwydes, rom

programis koncefcia da strategiuli

miznebi jandacvis

msoflio organizaciis konsultantTa

jgufis mier iqna

ratificirebuli. programas

Tavisi kodic mieniWa _ usafrTxo

vaqcinebis aTwleulis

globaluri CarCo.

dagegmarebis jgufi saerTa-

Soriso eqspertebisgan Seadgines.

im eqspertebisgan, romlebic

„janmos” mmarTvel sab-

Wos konsultirebas uwevs prioritetebis

gansazRvraSi.

muSaobis gegma moicavs rva ZiriTad

mimarTulebas. am mxriv

Zalian saintereso strategia

SemuSavda. kerZod, vaqcinebis

usafrTxoebis SemuSavebis TemaSi

absoluturad yvela im

pirs SeuZlia miiRos monawileoba,

romelsac Sesabamisi gamocdileba

da pasuxismgebloba

aqvs am sferoSi. mTavari sxdoma

CaniSnulia 22-23 noembers da

mas gadamwyveti mniSvneloba

aqvs globalur doneze.

vaqcinebis usafrTxoebis

globaluri komiteti 1999

wels Seiqmna.

Tu ras akeTebs xsenebuli

komiteti, 23-e sxdomis programas

gagacnobT, romelic Jeneva-

Si gaimarTa da sadac Semdegi

sakiTxebi ganixiles:

· rotavirusis winaaRmdeg

Catarebuli vaqcinaciis Sedegad

nawlavebis invaginaciis

warmoSobis riskebi;

· axali monacemebi pandemiuri

gripis A (H1N1) vaqcinaciis

Sesaxeb;

· cxelebis sawinaaRmdego vaqcinebis

gamoyeneba aif-dadebiT

pirebSi;

· sami qveynis gamocdileba

da axali monacemebi A jgufis

meningitis sawinaaRmdego konugirebuli

vaqcinis usafrTxoe-

bis Sesaxeb.

rogorc xedavT, aq CamoTvlilia

ramdenime dasaxelebis

vaqcina farTod gavrcelebuli

infeqciebisa da virusebis winaaRmdeg.

TiTqmis yvela maTgan-

Si gverdiT movlenebzea saubari,

vinaidan sistematurad meordeba

sityva _ usafrTxoeba.

is Sekreba, romelsac mimdinare

wels vaqcinebis usafrTxoebis

globaluri iniciativa

(GVSI) SeimuSavebs, is iqneba imunizaciis

ganmsazRvreli uaxlesi

8 wlis ganmavlobaSi. is

Seadgens gegmas farmacevtuli

kompaniebisTvis, romelic gzamkvlevi

iqneba msoflioSi milionobiT

sikvdilis aRmosafxvrelad.

aqve SegaxsenrbT, rom

manamde 2010-2020 wlebis periodi

aTwleulad iyo gamocxadebuli,

Tumca „kovidis” gamoCenis

Semdeg viTareba kardinalurad

Seicvala da sainiciativo

sabWos prioritetebis gadanacvleba

mouxda. metic: SeiZleba

iTqvas, rom axali koronavirusis

gamoCenasTan erTad,

situacia imdenad ukontrolo

gaxda, rom saxelmwifoebis mier

Zalovani struqturebis CarTva

gaxda saWiro, kerZod, samar-

Taldamcveli organoebis.

dRes mTel msoflioSi, virusis

gavrcelebasTan dakavSirebiT,

kanoniT dadgenili qcevis

wesebis darRvevisTvis jarimebia

dawesebuli. amave dros,

sruliad ar aqvs mniSvneloba,

esa Tu is qveyana medicinis ganviTarebis

kuTxiT ra simaRleze

dgas _ „kovidma” yvelaferi

Tavdayira daayena. aqve saqar-

Tvelos magaliTsac moviyvanT:

aSS Cvenze Seudareblad Zlieri

qveyanaa da bevrad ukeTesi

jandacvac aqvs, magram konkretulad

kovid-19-is epidemiis

sapasuxo RonisZiebebi, maT Soris,

daavadebis klinikuri menejmenti,

saqarTveloSi bevrad

ukeTesad aRmoCnda marTuli.

da unda iTqvas, rom mTeli msoflio

ase miiCnevs. cnobisTvis:

gavleniani amerikuli gamocema

Foreign Policy saqarTvelos asaxelebs

kovidTan brZolaSi msoflioSi

xuT yvelaze warmatebul

qveyanas Soris. saqarTvelos

miRwevebs kovidTan brZola-

Si calsaxad maRal Sefasebebs

aZleven jandacvis msoflio

organizaciis xelmZRvaneloba

da msoflios mTeli rigi qveynebis

avtoritetuli saerTaSoriso

institutebi. aSS-is upirobo

lideri, eqsperti kovid-

19-is dargSi, profesori entoni

fauCi, romelTanac saqarTvelos

20-wliani TanamSromloba

akavSirebs, gazafxulze gamogzavnil

oficialur werilSi

`mimdinareobs muSaoba mraval sxvadasxva vaqcinaze. amaTgan, oris

SemTxvevaSi miRweulia yvelaze didi progresi. mecnierebi iyeneben vaqcinis

Seqmnis inovaciur midgomebs, nawilobriv ebolasa da sarsze reagirebis

Sedegad miRebul gamocdilebaze dayrdnobiT. Tu kovid-19-is vaqcina

warmatebiT Seiqmna, es iqneba istoriaSi vaqcinis Seqmnisa da validaciis

yvelaze swrafi procesi~

`saqarTveloSi òqsfordis vaqciniT~ ar daiwyeba

acra. daavadebaTa kontrolisa da

sazogadoebrivi janmrTelobis erovnuli

centris xelmZRvanel amiran gamyreliZis

gancxadebiT, CvenTan Semovida mxolod 25 aTasi

doza gripis sawinaaRmdego franguli warmoebis

vaqcina. es ar aris `kovidis~ sawinaaRmdego

imunizacia, es gaxlavT gripis vaqcinebi~

wers: „moxaruli var, rom saqarTvelom

Zalian kargad gaakontrola

epidemia”.

ai, ase gvaqvs saqme „kovid-

Tan” dakavSirebiT, romelmac

mTeli msoflios epidemiologiuri

gamocdileba „fexebze

daikida” (bodiSi slengisTvis)

da ZviradRirebuli

jandacvis sistemebis strategiebi

Tavdayira daayena. erTaderTi

imedi vaqcinirebazea.

rac Seexeba vaqcinirebamde

mkurnalobaSi danergili

plaqvenilis avkargianobas:

axali medikamentebisa da

midgomebis danergvis paralelurad,

saqarTvelo did yuradRebas

uTmobs daavadebis simptomuri

da damxmare Terapiis

meTodebisa da midgomebis srulyofas.

CvenTan maqsimalurad

cdiloben mZime pacientebis

oqsigenoTerapiis optimizaciisTvis

bolo kvlevebis Sedegebis

gaTvaliswinebas. aseve seriozul

yuradRebas uTmoben

kovid-19-iT avadmyofebSi sisxlis

Semdedebeli sistemis

mxriv arsebul an mosalodnel

darRvevebs da am darRvevebis

koreqcias Tanamedrove meTodebis

gamoyenebiT. igive infeqciuri

paTologiis centris gamocdilebiT

es erT-erTi umniSvnelovenesi

rgolia kovid-19-

is paTogenezsa da mkurnaloba-

Si. swored aq, CvenTan Seiswavles

„citokinuri Stormis” roli

kovid-19-is paTogenezSi da

misi gavlena daavadebis mimdinareobaze,

aseve misi koreqciis

gzebi, kovid-19-iT pacientebSi

nevrologiuri, gul-sisxlZarRvTa

sistemis, Tirkmlebisa

da sxva organoTa sistemebis

dazianebis SemTxvevebi.

yovelive aman saSualeba

mogvca, daavdeba gvemarTa, magram

es mainc droebiTi iqneboda

yvela SemTxvevaSi. epidemiis

gaCerebis erTaderT alternativad

dRes msoflio vaqcinacias

miiCnevs.

ra viciT axali vaqcinis Sesaxeb?

_ araferi! viciT ra Tqva

qveynis mTavarma infeqcionistma

Tengiz cercvaZem, rom vaqcinasTan

dakavSirebiT, jerjerobiT,

winaaRmdegobrivi monacemebi

ar gvaqvso. es „jerjerobiT”

ras niSnavda, aravis auxsnia,

magram gaSifvra rTuli ar

aris _ „jerjerobiT” niSnavs,

rom momavalSi SeiZleba sruliad

sxva monacemebi miviRoT.

mTavarma infeqcionistma isic

ganmarta, rom saerTod ar aris

jer cnobili, vaqcina, romelsac

Seqmnian, iqneba Tu ara

efeqtiani da SeZlebs Tu ara is

daicvas adamiani „kovidisgan”?

tovebs Tu ara kovidi gamojanmrTelebul

adamianSi myar

imunitets? _ ar viciT! arada,

Tu virusi gadatanis Semdeg adamianSi

myar imunitets ar tovebs,

maSin Zalian gaZneldeba vaqcinis

Seqmna. gasagebia, rom mecnierebs

garkveuli teqnologiuri

niuansebi aqvT, romliTac

SeuZliaT, xelovnurad Seqmnili

vaqcina efeqtiani iyos, magram

am dros xdeba am vaqcina-

Si Semavali cilebis adiuvantebiT

gaZliereba, rom is ufro

24

24 N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.


sawinaaRmdego vaqcinebi ar Semova

imunogenuri gaxdes da imunitetis

gamomuSavebas xeli Seuwyos.

saubaria e .w. sinTetikur,

anu xelovnur vaqcinaze, romelsac

gverdiTi efeqtebi aqvs.

samwuxarod!

ikiTxavT, albaT, maSin ra vaqcina

aris Semosuli saqarTveloSi

da zogadad, riT crian

evropis mosaxleobas? iq, rogorc

mogexsenebaT, „axali koronavirusis”

sawinaaRmdego

acrebi ukve CaSvebulia. es gaxlavT

„oqsfordis vaqcina”,

romelTan dakavSirebiTac miiRes

gadawyvetileba, rom igi

kvlevis dasrulebamde CaSvebuliyo

warmoebaSi. Tan CaSvebulia

uzarmazari raodenobiT.

msoflio imaze wavida, rom vaqcina,

romlis efeqtianoba jer

dadasturebuli ar aris (mxolod

imedi bJutavs gvirabis bolos),

ukve CauSves warmoebaSi.

cnobili epidemiologebis azriT,

evropa did riskze wavida,

radgan Tu am vaqcinam ar gaamarTla...

saerTaSoriso skandali

mere naxeT.

saqarTveloSi „oqsfordis

vaqciniT” ar daiwyeba acra. daavadebaTa

kontrolisa da sazogadoebrivi

janmrTelobis erovnuli

centris xelmZRvanel

amiran gamyreliZis gancxadebiT,

CvenTan Semovida mxolod 25

aTasi doza gripis sawinaaRmdego

franguli warmoebis vaqcina.

es ar aris „kovidis” sawinaaRmdego

imunizacia, es gaxlavT

gripis vaqcinebi.

`tovebs Tu ara kovidi gamojanmrTelebul

adamianSi myar imunitets? - ar viciT! arada,

Tu virusi gadatanis Semdeg adamianSi myar

imunitets ar tovebs, maSin Zalian gaZneldeba

vaqcinis Seqmna~

gaeros monacemebiT, dRevandeli

mdgomareobiT, kovid-19-

is konkretuli vaqcina an samkurnalo

saSualebebi ar arsebobs.

mTel msoflioSi mecnierebi

intensiurad muSaoben am daavadebis

sawinaaRmdego vaqcinis

Seqmnaze. aRsaniSnavia, rom paralelurad

mimdinareobs muSaoba

mraval sxvadasxva vaqcinaze.

amaTgan, oris SemTxvevaSi

miRweulia yvelaze didi progresi.

mecnierebi iyeneben vaqcinis

Seqmnis inovaciur midgomebs,

nawilobriv ebolasa da

sarsze reagirebis Sedegad mi-

Rebul gamocdilebaze dayrdnobiT.

Tu kovid-19-is vaqcina

warmatebiT Seiqmna, es iqneba istoriaSi

vaqcinis Seqmnisa da

validaciis yvelaze swrafi procesi.

mkvlevrebi aseve eZeben medikamentebs,

romlebic Seanelebs

virusis gavrcelebas organizm-

Si da Seamcirebs daavadebul

pacientebSi virusiT gamowveul

sunTqvis seriozul problemebs.

Tumca yvelaze swrafi me-

Todebis SemTxvevaSic ki, adami-

anebSi axali daavadebis samkurnalod

medikamentebis gamoyenebamde

aucilebelia prepartebis

gamocda da darwmuneba maT

usafrTxoebasa da efeqtianoba-

Si.

jandacvis msoflio organizaciis

ufrosi specialistis,

ketrin smolvudis gancxadebiT,

koronavirusis vaqcinis damtkicebas

uaxloes xanebSi ar

unda velodoT. misi TqmiT, pirvel

rigSi, saWiro iqneba imis

dadastureba, rom vaqcina saSi-

Si ar aris adamianisTvis da namdvilad

efeqtiania. „janmo” avrcelebs

oficialur notas, sadac

weria, rom mTeli msoflio

erTad muSaobs kovid-19-is winaaRmdeg

vaqcinis Sesaqmnelad.

ase rom, igive „oqsfordis

vaqcina”, romelic evropis rigma

qveynebma CauSves warmoebaSi,


mier ar aris ratificirebuli.

ar aris gatanili zemoxsenebul

vaqcinirebis usafrTxoebis

sainiciativo jgufis sxdomaze.

aq saintereso kidev is gaxlavT,

rom amiran gamyreliZe,

romelic oficialurad gaxlavT


eqsperti, sruliad

sapirispiro informacias avrcelebs.

misi sajaro gancxadebiT,

koronavirusis vaqcinis warmoeba

finalur etapze gadadis

da SesaZloa, gvian Semodgomaze

damtkicdes. es gancxadeba

gamyreliZem sakoordinacio sabWos

sxdomis dasrulebis Semdeg

gaakeTa da isic aRniSna,

rom saqarTvelo „kovidis” vaqcinis

misaRebad molaparakebebs

aqtiurad awarmoebso.

viTom, „oqsfordis vaqcinas”

umiznebs, romelic ar aris ratificirebuli?

sxva, ubralod,

bunebaSi ar arsebobs... „kremlis”

gancxadebebs Tu ar CavTvliT.

kovidinficirebuli orsuli antisanitarias aprotestebs!

xviCa mamulaZe

nuki „qronika+~-sTan ambobs, rom saavadmyofoSi

antisanitaria daxvda, sadac

massaviT 20-mde fexmZime kovidinficirebuli

mkurnalobs.

ufro vrclad, Tu ra mdgomareobaa

baTumis samSobiaroSi, „qronika+~ nuki

nuki abSilava 26 wlisaa. igi 5 Tvis orsulia da

kovidinficirebulia. fexmZime qali am droisTvis

baTumis samSobiaroSi saxlSi imyofeba.

N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.

abSilavas daukavSirda:

_ nuki, rodis gaigeT, rom kovidin-

ficirebuli iyaviT?

_ guSinwin Cavabare testi respublikur

saavadmyofoSi Cems meuRlesTan

erTad, Tumca im dReebis ganmavlobaSi

TviTizolaciaSi vimyofebodiT, radgan

inficirebis albaToba sakmaod didi

iyo. guSin ki sabolood orives dagvidasturda

virusi. es informacia 112-

dan miviReT.

_ ra moxda Semdeg?

_ Semdeg dagvireka ojaxis eqimma,

romelmac kiTxvebi dagvisva Cveni imdroindeli

mdgomareobis Sesaxeb da

ramdenime miTiTebac mogvca... mere ki

isev 112-dan dagvirekes, rom aucilebeli

iyo Cemi gadayvana. me da giorgim

Tavidanve vikiTxeT, Tu ratom ar Sei-

Zleboda saxlis pirobebSi mkurnalobis

gagrZeleba, roca temperatura 36.4

mqonda, Cems meuRles ki _ 37. maT gvi-

Txres, rom Cemi gadayvana aucilebelia,

radgan fexmZimobis gamo gansakuTrebul

yuradRebas vsaWiroeb. aRar SevkamaTebivar.

Cemma meuRlem miTxra, rom

Tu asea, bavSvze unda vifiqroTo da mec

davTanxmdi. saRamos 21:00 saaTze saswrafos

brigadam momakiTxa da mravalprofilian

samSobiaro saxlSi gadmomiyvanes:

gamizomes temperatura, moismin-

ratom irRveva

higienuri

normebi baTumis

mravalprofilian

samSobiaro

saxlSi?

es bavSvisa da Cemi guliscema da Cems

palatamde mimaciles. amis Semdeg ukve

marto davrCi.

_ adgilze misuls ra mdgomareoba

dagxvdaT?

_ Sevdivar sapirfareSoSi da saSineli

situacia mxvdeba! amasTan, ramdenime

inficirebuli pacienti sargeblobs

am saabazanoTi, fotoebsac mogawvdiT...

amis mere meuRles davureke da es yvelaferi

movuyevi, manac reagireba moaxdina

da eqims daureka. isedac emociuri

foni mqonda, pirveli da rTuli dRe

iyo. Semdeg Semovida qalbatoni, romelmac

momawoda xelsaxocebi da Tan cota

misayvedura, _ ratom gaanerviule meu-

Rleo? mec TavSekavebiT avuxseni, rom

tualeti mouwesrigebelia da aba, ra

unda meqna-meTqi? man miTxra, rom Ramea

da yovelTvis mzad ver iqnebao. mec

daviZine. ra meqnaa? _ vifiqre, rom meore

dRes davelodebodi. meore dResac

12 saaTamde igive situaciaa iyo, Tan

isic daerTo, rom gavige, CemTan palataSi

SemohyavdaT inficirebuli da

nakeisrali qalbatoni. amaze, ra Tqma

unda, gavcofdi. sityva „TviTizolaciis”

arss ver vxvdebi. Tu ase unda yofiliyo,

saxlSi darCena da sisufTave-

Si mkurnaloba merCivna Cems qmarTan.

mere mTeli personali Semodis da saTi-

Taod mekiTxeba, Tu ratom gavlanZRe

isini? me ki avuxseni, rom medpersonals

ase pirdapir ar Sevxebivar; antisanitariisa

da TviTizolaciis darRvevis

faqts ki Sevpirdi, rom gavasajaroebdi.

amis Semdgom maT SeakeTes karis saxeluri

da daalages saabazano da palata.

medikamenti ar mouwodebiaT. cxviri

mqonda gaWedili da guSin fiziologiuri

xsnari moviTxove. miTxres, rom

maragSi ar gvaqvso. higiena daculi ar

aris da araJnian pursa da Cais saxlSic

mivirTmevdi.

25


`policia `qarTuli ocnebisTvis~

koronapandemia gadavlili evro-

Sorena marsagiSvili

pa qarTvelebma gasul kviras kidev

599 92 16 22

erTxel gaaognes. amjerad saberZne-

Tis policia gaxda iZulebuli,

saqarTvelos mesame prezidenti daecva, romelic aTenSi qarTvel

emigrantebs Sexvda. wina wlebSi igive misiis Sesruleba belgiisa

da italiis policias mouwia. rogorc ki gairkva, rom saakaSvili

saberZneTis dedaqalaqSi apirebda Casvlas saqarTvelos xelisuflebam

da kriminalurma samyarom saTanado zomebi miiRes. „kanon-

ierma qurdma” laSa SuSanaSvilma piroba dado, im kacs qurdad

vakurTxeb, vinc saakaSvils galaxavso. sainteresoa, rogor unda

akurTxos qurdad sxva vinme adamianma, romelic qurdobaze uars

ambobs? laSa SuSanaSvili ukve wlebia, „qronika+~-s sasamarTloSi

imaze edaveba, qurdad rogor momixsenieTo.

didi mcdelobis miuxeda-

vad, mokriminalo tipebma da

„qarTul ocnebasTan” daax-

loebulma pirebma saakaSvilis

cema ver moaxerxes. amaSi maT

saberZneTis policiam da

qarTvelma emigrantebma SeuSales

xeli. Sexvedraze misulma

qalebma moZaladeebs seri-

ozuli winaaRmdegoba gauwies

da erTi-ori SemoelaxaT kide-

vac. „nacionaluri moZraobis”

wevri zviad kuprava miiCnevs,

rom aTenis incidentma kidev

erTxel gamoaCina „qarTuli

ocnebis” namdvili saxe. kupra-

va fiqrobs, rom ivaniSvils,

adre Tu gvian, mainc mouwevs

saakaSvilisTvis xelisuflebis

gadabareba. igi elodeba, rom

mTavari meocnebe marcxs 31

oqtombris 20 saaTsa da 10

wuTze aRiarebs.

ra aCvena aTenSi momxdarma

incidentma? brundeba Tu ara

saakaSvili saqarTveloSi? ra-

tom ar gamodis gareT biZina

ivaniSvili? rogor da rodis

moxdeba xelisuflebis gada-

bareba? ra ganwyobiT elodeba

qarTuli policia saparlamen-

to arCevnebs? _ am Temebis

Sesaxeb zviad kuprava „qroni-

ka+~-s esaubreba:

_ zviad, aTenSi mixeil

saakaSvilisa da qarTveli emi-

grantebis Sexvedram didi

zarzeimiT Caiara, magram iyo

incidentebic. gavrcelebuli

informaciiT, laSa SuSanaSvili

qurdad kurTxevas dahpirda

imaT, vinc mesame prezi-

dents xels daartyamda.

_ „kanonieri qurdebisa” da

„qarTuli ocnebis” interesebi

xSirad emTxveva xolme erTmaneTs.

maTi interesebi saakaSvilis

sakiTxSic daemTxva. iyo

mcdeloba, rom saqarTvelos

mesame prezidentisTvis fizikuri

Seuracxyofa mieyenebinaT,

magram ar gamouvidaT,

radgan saTanado doneze dadga

evropuli saxelmwifo. am Sem-

TxvevaSi, saberZneTs vgulisxmob,

romelmac ubralod ki ar

daicva saqarTvelos mesame

prezidenti, aramed specrazmiT

uzrunvelyo saakaSvilis usafrTxoeba.

rac, Cemi azriT, umniSvnelovanesi

momentia.

_ ratom aris mniSvnelovani,

rom saberZneTma misi usafrTx-

oebis dasacavad specrazmi

gamoyo?

_ mniSvnelovani aris imitom,

rom „qarTuli ocneba” cdilobs,

mixeil saakaSvili Zebnilad

da kriminalad gamoacxados.

maTi gancxadebebis fonze

ki evropuli saxelmwifoebi

sul sxva rames akeTeben. mis

usafrTxoebas evropis sxva

qveynebSic icavda policia.

_ belgiasa da romSi emigrantebTan

gamarTul Sexve-

dras gulisxmobT? saakaSvils

am qveynebSic miuvardnen viRa-

cebi.

_ diax. belgiaSi gamarTul

Tavyrilobas mec veswrebodi,

saakaSvili qarTvel emigrantebs

lieJSi Sexvda. „qarTuli

ocnebis” daqiravebulma tipebma

iqac scades provokaciebis

mowyoba. es qmedebac policiam

aRkveTa. „qarTulma ocnebam”

unda icodes, rom yvela maTi

provokaciuli mcdeloba kraxiT

dasruldeba. aTenSi mowyobili

provokaciiT mesame prezidents

araferi daaklda. piriqiT,

misi wona kidev ufri

gaizarda.

_ misi wona rogor gaizar-

da?

_ nebismieri aseTi provokacia

aCvenebs, Tu rogor eSinia

ivaniSvilis „ocnebas” mixeil

saakaSvilis. amiT miSas politikuri

wona mniSvnelovnad

izrdeba. aTenis Sexvedridan

vnaxeT, Tu rogor uyvars miSa

qarTvel emigrantebs. „qarTuli

ocnebis” arc erTi warmomadgeneli

xalxSi aseTi siyvaruliT

ar sargeblobs.

_ emigrantebma provokaciis

mosawyobad mosuli tipebi saSinel

dReSi Caagdes, gansakuT-

rebiT qalebi aqtiurobdnen.

_ Cven axla aTenSi momxdar

incidentze vsaubrobT, magram

mxolod saberZneTSi ki ar uyvarT

miSa, mas qarTveli emigrantebi

msoflios yvela qveyanaSi

aseTi siyvaruliT xvdebian.

saqarTvelos mesame prezidentis

mimarT aseTive pozitiuri

damokidebulebaa saqarTveloSic.

amis fonze ivaniSvilis

mimarT uaryofiTi da negatiuri

damokidebuleba mkveTrad

matulobs.

rogorc vxvdebi, miSas am

SexvedrebiT imis Cveneba unda,

rogor uyvars is xalxs da ramxela

negativia „qarTuli ocnebis”

lideris mimarT. es Zalian

swori da efeqtiani gaTvlaa.

saakaSvils aseTi rameebi ar eSleba.

is Zalian Wkvianurad moqmedebs.

_ gindaT TqvaT, rom saakaSvili

ivaniSvilze fsiqologi-

ur Setevas axorcielebs?

_ SegviZlia vTqvaT, rom oligarqze

fsiqologiuri Seteva

xorcieldeba. politikaSi ase-

Ti xerxi misaRebia.

_ misaRebi xerxi SeiZleba

aris, magram fsiqologiuri

Seteva ramdenad efeqtiani

iqneba?

_ es aucileblad gamoiRebs

Tavis Sedegs. biZina ivaniSvili

fsiqologiurad Zlieri adamiani

ar aris da aseT Setevas ver

gauZlebs. es saakaSvilmac kargad

icis da amitomac dgams

aseT nabijebs.

_ ratom ggoniaT, rom

„qarTuli ocnebis” lideri

fsiqologiurad Zlieri adami-

ani ar aris?

_ Cveulebrivi mSiSaraa. Tavis

sayvarel stafilos wvensac

ki mas Semdeg svams, rac am siTxes

misi dacvis xuTi TanamSromeli

mainc dalevs. wamdauwum

TermometriT usinjaven temperaturas.

Zalian mxdali adamiania.

sakuTari finansebisa da

miliardebis tyveobaSia. didi

zviad kuprava:

ìvaniSvili

saakaSvils noemberSi

gadaabarebs

xelisuflebas~

fulis mqone yvela adamiani

mSiSaraa. ara, yvelaze amas ver

vityvi. badri patarkaciSvilsac

hqonda miliardebi, magram

mSiSara ar yofila arasdros.

ivaniSvili Cveulebrivi mxdali

adamiania. koronis gamo ramdenime

Tve saxlSi iyo gamoketili

da gareT cxvirs ar yofda.

_ koronis gamo bevri sxvac

ar gamodioda gareT. erTia

SiSi, magram meorea sifrTxilis

dacva da samoqalaqo pasux-

ismgebloba.

_ viRacebi gareT gamosvlas

eridebodnen, magram es mTlad

kolbaSi gamoiketa. am wlis man-

Zilze sul ramdenjerme gamo-

Cnda. iseTebi Caatara, sjobda,

saerTod ar gamoCeniliyo.

_ ra Caatara?

_ ramdenime Tvis win is

„qarTuli ocnebis” maJoritarebis

wardgenis RonisZiebas

daeswro. iq xalxs xelebs umowmebdnen.

ivaniSvilma iq viRacas

xeli CamoarTva da is xeli kinaRam

gadaityava, imdenjer

daizeTa da daispirta.

_ samagierod, miSa ar daspi-

rtula da aTenSi emigrantebs

exuteboda. kojorSi gamarTu-

li wardgenis gaxsenebiT amaze

àTenis Sexvedridan vnaxeT, Tu rogor uyvars

miSa qarTvel emigrantebs. `qarTuli ocnebis~

arc erTi warmomadgeneli xalxSi aseTi

siyvaruliT ar sargeblobs~

gindodaT xazgasma?

_ amas Cemi xazgasma ar sWirdeba,

es gansxvaveba yvelam sakuTari

TvaliT naxa. aqve unda

gaviTvaliswinoT isic, rom koronis

gavrcelebis mxriv evropaSi

ufro mZime viTarebaa, vidre

_ saqarTveloSi. saberZne-

TSic bevria koroniT inficirebuli,

magram miSa aravisa da

arafers moridebia. xelebis

daspirtva-dazeTvaze laparakic

xom saerTod zedmetia.

_ zemoT TqviT, rom saakaSvili

ivaniSvilze fsiqolo-

giur zewolas axorcielebso.

amis garda is TiTqos uaxlov-

deba saqarTvelos. ukrainac

araa Sors, magram aTeni ufro

axlos aris.

_ saberZneTi bevrad ufro

axlosaa saqarTvelosTan. miSa

nel-nela uaxlovdeba Tavis

samSoblos da sworsac akeTebs.

is taqtikosi da strategia. man

mSvenivrad icis, Tu sad da ra

unda gaakeTos. axlo momavalSi

is aucileblad Semova saqarTveloSi.

saqarTvelos mesame

prezidents aqvs sruli ufleba,

Tavis samSobloSi dabrundes

_ is ubralod valdebulia,

ase moiqces!

_ valdebuli ratom aris?

_ imitom, rom misi qveyana

gansacdelSia, saakaSvili ki am

qveynis prezidenti iyo. is arc

kriminalia da arc rigiTi adamiani,

rom dabrunebaSi xeli

SeuSalon.

_ sabuTebi Tu mowesrigebuli

aqvT, samSobloSi dab-

runebaSi arc rigiT adamianebs

unda SeeSaloT xeli.

_ ra Tqma unda. am SemTxveva-

Si mis statuss mxolod erTi

ramis gamo gavusvi xazi _ miSas

qveynis winaSe gacilebiT meti

pasuxismgebloba akisria. is Seqmnil

viTarebas pasuxismgeblobiT

ekideba da aucileblad

Semova saqarTveloSi.

_ saqarTvelos xelisufle-

ba ambobs, rom rogorc ki

saakaSvili Cvens teritoriaze

Semova, davakavebTo. Tqveni azriT,

marTla gabedavs ivaniSvilis

xelisufleba mis dapa-

timrebas?

_ gamoricxulia. biZina ivaniSvilis

xelisufleba saqarTvelos

mesame prezidentis damka-

26

26 N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.

N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.


xmis micemas aRar apirebs~

vebeli rom ar aris, es cxadze

cxadia.

_ Tu mis dakavebas ver gabe-

davs „ocnebis” xelisufleba,

aqamde ratom ar dabrunda miSa

saqarTveloSi?

_ amasTan dakavSirebiT miSas

naTqvami aqvs, rom ar surs mis

gamo saqarTveloSi vinme dazaraldes.

roca amis dro mova,

saakaSvili dabrundeba. am vi-

Tarebas rom vuyureb, iseTi

gancda moiCndeba, rom biZina

ivaniSvili miSas xelisuflebas

gadaabarebs.

_ rodis gadaabarebs?

_ arCevnebis Sedegebis gamocxadebidan

Zalian male Sedgeba

xelisuflebis gadabareba.

_ amas rame informaciaze

dayrdnobiT ambobT, Tu mx-

olod intuicia gkarnaxobT?

_ ise midis saqmeebi, Zalian

male gadaabareben saakaSvils

xelisuflebas.

_ saakaSvils gadaabareben

xelisuflebas Tu opozicias?

_ imas gadaabareben, vinc

gamokveTili lideria. simar-

Tles Tvali gavusworoT da

vTqvaT, rom aseTi lideri mixeil

saakaSvilia.

_ opozicias sxva liderebic

hyavs.

_ ki batono, bokeriac opoziciaa,

gugavac, „lelos” lideric,

magram yvelaze gamokveTili

mainc mixeil saakaSvilia.

amaze Tavad opoziciac ar

daobs. darwmunebuli var, arCevnebidan

Zalian male ivaniSvili

opozicias gadaabarebs xelisuflebas.

ase imitom ki ar moiqceva,

rom demokratia, aseTi

nabijis gadadgmas piradi usafrTxoebis

dacvis instinqti

aiZulebs.

_ opozicia daicavs mis us-

afrTxoebas?

_ ivaniSvilma Zalian kargad

icis, rom misi usafrTxoeba

demokratiuli mmarTvelobis

dros iqneba daculi da ara

diqtaturaSi. biZinas SeuZlia,

ceskos daawerinos sasurveli

procentebi da xelisuflebaSi

darCes. aseT SemTxvevaSi mas

ufro meti safrTxe emuqreba,

vidre maSin, Tu xelisuflebas

opozicias gadaabarebs.

gayalbebisa da gajiutebis

SemTxvevaSi biZinas seriozuli

problemebi Seeqmneba. miSa

saqarTvelos sazRvrebTan aris

momdgari. qveyanaSi milionze

meti opoziciurad ganwyobili

adamiani iqneba. dasavleTidan

ar Sewydeba kritika. dRis wesrigSi

dadgeba misi qonebis dayadaRebis

sakiTxi. diqtaturac

rom daamyaros, biZina usafrTxod

ver iqneba. rogorc vTqvi,

milionze meti opoziciurad

ganwyobili adamiania da yvelas

xom ver daiWers. mis mimarT

ukmayofileba yoveldRiurad

izrdeba. is xelisuflebaSi ve-

Rar darCeba, es, ubralod,

gamoricxulia.

is gadaabarebs xelisuflebas,

aq gveqneba demokratiuli

`biZina ivaniSvilma giorgi gaxaria saarCevno siaSi Seiyvana. is aris am siis

pirveli nomeri. gaxaria aucileblad moxvdeba parlamentSi. amiT mas

ivaniSvilma deputatis imuniteti aCuqa. igive mizeziT Seiyvana òcnebis~ liderma

siaSi Tea wulukianic. is siaSi meoTxea da gaxarias msgavsad aucileblad

gaxdeba parlamentis wevri. am adamianebis mimarT ki maqvs pretenziebi, magram

deputatebis devnas mxars ar davuWerdi da amas arc dasavleTi moiwonebs~

mmarTveloba da ivaniSvili bevrad

daculad igrZnobs Tavs.

daculi iqnebian misi xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebic.

gagaxsenebT 2012 wels: maSindelma

xelisuflebam arCevneb-

Si damarcxeba aRiara da „qarTuli

ocneba” movida saTaveSi.

Cvenma dasavlelma partniorebma

maSin pirveli rac gviTxres,

es iyo sityva kohabitacia. kohabitacia

Tanacxovrebas niSnavs

da imis garantiaa, rom axali

xelisufleba wina xelisuflebis

wevrebis devniT ar

dakavdeba.

_ isev kohabitaciis gzas

unda davadgeT?

_ demokratiuli saxelmwifos

aSeneba Tu gvinda, ase unda

moviqceT. wina xelisuflebis

warmomadgenlebis devna kargi

saqcieli ar aris.

_ radgan kohabitaciis gzas

unda davadgeT, arc damna-

Saveebs unda moeTxovoT pa-

suxi? maT mxolod imitom unda

SerCeT yvelaferi, rom wina xe-

lisuflebas warmoadgenen?

_ damnaSaveebma pasuxi aucileblad

unda agon, magram

umaRlesi Tanamdebobis pirebs

SeiZleba ver Seexo, imitom rom

dasavlel partniorebs uwev

angariSs. amitom vambob, rom

demokratiaSi biZina ivaniSvili

`Cveulebrivi mSiSaraa. Tavis sayvarel

stafilos wvensac ki mas Semdeg svams, rac am

siTxes misi dacvis xuTi TanamSromeli mainc

dalevs. wamdauwum TermometriT usinjaven

temperaturas. Zalian mxdali adamiania.

sakuTari finansebisa da miliardebis

tyveobaSia. didi fulis mqone yvela adamiani

mSiSaraa. ara, yvelaze amas ver vityvi. badri

patarkaciSvilsac hqonda miliardebi, magram

mSiSara ar yofila arasdros~

ufro daculi iqneba. arCevnebis

gayalbeba da diqtaturis

damyarebis mcdeloba misTvis

savalalod dasruldeba.

_ opozicia xSirad ixsenebs

xolme 20 ivnisis darbevas da

maSindel Ss ministr gaxarias.

kohabitaciis farglebSi isic

xelSeuxebeli unda iyos?

opozicia pirobas debda, rom

is daisjeboda.

_ iciT, ra aris? _ biZina

ivaniSvilma giorgi gaxaria

saarCevno siaSi Seiyvana. is aris

am siis pirveli nomeri. gaxaria

aucileblad moxvdeba parlamentSi.

amiT mas ivaniSvilma

deputatis imuniteti aCuqa.

igive mizeziT Seiyvana „ocnebis”

liderma siaSi Tea wulukianic.

is siaSi meoTxea da

gaxarias msgavsad aucileblad

gaxdeba parlamentis wevri. am

adamianebis mimarT ki maqvs pretenziebi,

magram deputatebis

devnas mxars ar davuWerdi da

amas arc dasavleTi moiwonebs.

_ zemoT Cven visaubreT

imaze, Tu rogor uzrunvelyo

saakaSvilis dacva evropulma

policiam. am fonze saqarTve-

loSi myofi opozicionerebi

Zalian daucvelebi xarT. dRe

ise ar gava, romelime opozi-

cioners Tavs ar daesxan.

_ ras vizamT, Cven ar varT

evropuli tipis saxelmwifo da,

Sesabamisad, arc Cveni policiaa

dasavluri standartebis.

aqedan gamomdinare, arc gvaqvs

imis iluzia, rom saqarTvelos

xelisufleba opozicionerebis

usafrTxoebas daicavs.

_ arCevnebis moaxloebasTan

erTad kidev ufro gamwvavde-

ba viTareba. rogor apirebs

opozicia Tavis dacvas?

_ Cven uars vambobT yovelgvar

Zaladobaze. igives vurCevT

xelisuflebasac. Tu ivaniSvili

mainc ar daiSlis da situacias

gaamwvavebs, pasuxi moeTxoveba.

Zaladoba, saboloo jamSi, ukvalod

ar Caivlis. viRac raRa-

cas rom afuWebs, adre Tu gvian,

mainc uwevs amaze pasuxisgeba.

es yvelam unda gaiazros. ratomRac,

mgonia, rom ivaniSvili

amas aucileblad gaiazrebs.

_ ratom ggoniaT, rom gaiaz-

rebs?

_ saqmes aseTi piri uCans. ase

mgonia, rom „qarTuli ocnebis”

lideri yvelafers gaiazrebs

da demokratiul procesebSi

Seva, ris Semdegac raRacebis

gadalageba mouwevs.

_ mainc, ras gadaalagebs?

_ Tavis gunds.

_ gundi dasTanxmdeba gada-

lagebas?

_ ivaniSvili gundSi arc aqamde

ekiTxeboda vinmes rames da

arc samomavlod hkiTxavs. ise

moiqceva, rogorc Tavad miiCnevs

saWirod. am gadalagebis

procesSi gaaanalizebs, rom mis

usafrTxoebas demokratia uzrunvelyofs

da ara _ diqtatura.

yvelafris miuxedavad. mainc

diqtatura Tu arCia, opozicia

mis mimarT ufro agresiuli

iqneba, vidre aqamde iyo. isic

radikalur zomebs mimarTavs,

magram yvelas verc dagviWers

da verc gagvaCerebs. ara

mgonia, ivaniSvili amaze ar fiqrobdes.

man sxvaze ukeT icis,

rom diqtaturas demokratia

sjobs.

_ Tqven wlebis manZilze

muSaobdiT sapatrulo poli-

ciaSi da iq uamravi nacnobi

gyavT. Tqveni informaciiT,

ras izams policia arCevnebze?

erT-erT wina interviuSi miTxariT,

rom policielebi xe-

lisuflebaze nawyenebi arian,

radgan kriminalebi daasva

Tavzeo.

_ mravali weli vmuSaobdi

sapatrulo policiaSi. Zalian

bevr policiels vicnob da

Zalian bevri policieli micnobs.

CemTan xSirad modian

policielebi da meubnebian,

rom isini xazaven xuTians.

_ moqmed policielebzea

saubari?

_ moqmed policielebze geubnebiT.

xelisuflebas ki aqvs

imedi, rom policia „qarTul

ocnebas” miscems xmas, magram

policielebis didi nawili

arCevnebze xuTianis Semoxazvas

apirebs. sistema Signidan mTlianad

moryeulia. xelisuflebas

aranairi dasayrdeni ar gaaCnia.

aseTi situacia aqvs dRes

ivaniSvils.

_ bevri arCevnebs pesimis-

turad uyurebs. Tqven aSkarad

getyobaT, rom optimisturad

xarT ganwyobili.

_ optimisturad var ganwyobili

ki ara, darwmunebuli var,

rom biZina ivaniSvili xelisuflebidan

wava. Cemi survilia,

„qarTuli ocnebis” liderma

yvelaferi kargad gaiazros da

opozicias xelisufleba 31 oqtombers

20 saaTsa da 10 wuTze

gadaabaros.

_ 20 saaTsa da 10 wuTze gadabarebas

rame principuli mniS-

vneloba aqvs?

_ 20 saaTze saarCveno ubnebi

ixureba da xmis micema wydeba.

100%-iT var darwmunebuli,

rom xelisuflebis gadabarebas

vixilavT.

27


CORN-is isteria _ ratom imaragebs qarTveli

rogorc „kovidis” pirveli

Tamar rostiaSvili

talRis dros mosaxleoba iste-

577 10 07 06

riulad imaragebda higienur sa-

Sualebebs, maragis favorti

amjerad pop-kornis simindia. oqtombris Semdgomi dReebisTvis

emzadeba eri _ dayaros tafaze da Semdeg oxSivarade-

nili batibutiT savse maTlafebiT televizorebisken gaeqanos.

ragbis erTaSoriso liga ra mosatania _ oqtombris postsaarCevno

bestseleri iwyeba! iq yvelaferi iqneba _ junglebis

RrialebiT, vergasuli partiebis liderebis daking-konge-

biT, gasuli partiebis liderebis restornebSi RreobebiT,

mere iq mivardnebiT, sasamarTloebidan gamovardnebiT, parlamentis

win aqciebiT da policielebis „dakvercxebiT”. sx-

vaTa Soris, qarTveli samarTaldamcveli Zalian reagirebs

kvercxis srolaze. saqme-saqmeze rom midges, pomidori ur-

Cevnia. samarTlian arCevnebis Catarebis meTodebSi ise erkve-

va, rogorc TermobirTvul fizikaSi. wesrigis dacvis mxolod

Zalismier meTodebs cnobs, magram arc aqeTa mxare _ aqciis

monawileebi arian mama abramis batknebi.

mokled, mxurvale oqtomberi

gvelodeba win. is, rasac axla

waikiTxavT, pirvel rigSi, aucilebeli

iqneba partiebis liderebisTvis

da yvela im pirebisTvis,

vinc arCevnebSi apirebs samarTlian

brZolas.

rogor unda daicvaT Tqveni

uflebebi!

Sekrebis Tavisufleba, rogorc

azris gavrcelebis saSualeba,

demokratiuli sazogadoebis

erT-erTi umniSvnelovanesi safu-

Zvelia. es Cvens dRevandel xelisuflebas

xSirad aviwydeba.

urCevnia, demokratias awyeninos,

vidre _ ivaniSvils. mSvidobiani

Sekrebis ufleba, faqtobrivad,

erTaderTi SesaZleblobaa, rom

individebma, miuxedavad maTi statusisa,

gamoxaton grZnobebi,

Sexedulebebi da protesti ama

Tu im sakiTxis mimarT. ase da amrigad,

Sekreba mTel msoflioSi

jansaRi politikuri da sazogadoebrivi

procesis Semadgeneli

nawilia, romlis gareSec demokratiuli

sazogadoeba ubralod

ar arsebobs.

saqarTveloSi Sekrebebis mravalwliani

gamocdilebis miuxedavad,

tiraniisa da diqtaturis

gamovlinebebi dRemde aqtualuria.

magaliTad, 2019 wlis 20

ivniss TbilisSi masStaburi aqcia

policiis mier Zalis gamoyenebiT

Sewyveta, romelic sakmaod mZime

SedegebiT dasrulda, sapatio

sameuls SeurTda: 2007 wlis 7

noembris, 2011 wlis 26 maisisa da

2017 wlis 11-12 martis.

bolo wlebSi msoflioSi Sekrebebis

axalma masStabebma erTgvari

winapiroba Seqmna Sekrebis

uflebis realizaciasTan dakav-

Sirebuli araerTi kvleviTi da

adamianis uflebaTa evropuli

sasamarTlos gadawyvetilebis

saqmeze. erT-erTi bolo magali-

Tia, ramdenime wlis win, london-

Si 2009 wlis didi oceulis samitTan

dakavSirebuli protestis

Semdeg, misi udidebulesobis policiis

inspeqtoratis mier ganxorcielebuli

masStaburi kvleva,

samomavlod policiis saqmianobis

gasaumjobeseblad. axla,

rogor warmogidgeniaT msgavsi

formati CvenTan?! 2014 wels aSS-

Si, misuris StatSi, qalaq fergiusonSi,

saprotesto aqciebze policiis

moqmedebebis gamo sapolicio

sferoSi reformebis ganxor-

cielebis mizniT, aSS-is prezidentis

specialurma samuSao jgufma

kvleva Caatara _ ratom aris

mosaxleoba policiiT ukmayofilo?!

2019 wlis zafxulSi hongkongSi

mimdinare protestis Semdeg

sistemuri kvleva daiwyo

saerTaSoriso eqspertebis monawileobiT,

SemdgomSi protestis

marTvis meTodebis gasaumjobeseblad.

yvela zemoT CamoTvlil

SemTxvevaSi saprotesto aqciebi

im sisastikiT ar darbeula, rac

moxda 2019 wlis 20 ivniss, gnebavT,

2011 wlis 26 maiss.

am sakiTxebze kvlevis mniSvneloba

imiTac aris ganpirobebuli,

rom demokratiul qveyneb-

Si Sekrebebis xasiaTi, maTi organizebis

meTodebi, gamoxatvis

formebi da manifestantebis qceva

mniSvnelovnad transformirda

XX saukunis bolodan, gansakuTrebiT

ki bolo aTwleulis

ganmavlobaSi. am TvalsazrisiT,

arc saqarTveloa gamonaklisi.

Temas kidev ufro amZafrebs saxelmwifos

mier balansis dacvis

problemis ararseboba. ra moxdeboda,

igive Sinagan saqmeTa saministros

eTargmna da gascnoboda

misi udidebulesoba policiis,

saxanZro da samaSvelo samsaxurebis

inspeqtoratis kvlevas da analogiuri

Caetarebina CvenTanac.

evropeli kolegebis gamocdileba

maT pirvel rigSi mSvidobiani

(da, Tundac, aramSvidobiani)

Sekrebebis marTvaSi daexmareboda.

Sekrebis Tavisufleba sagangebod

aris daculi saqarTvelos

konstituciis 21-e muxliT,

romelic adgens sajarod da uiaraRod

Sekrebis SesaZleblobas.

swored dasaxelebuli konstituciuri

norma, saerTaSoriso

xelSekrulebebTan da SeTanxmebebTan

erTad, qmnis Sekrebis

Tavisuflebis sakanonmdeblo

regulirebis safuZvels. Tumca

„Sekrebebisa da manifestaciebis

Sesaxeb” saqarTvelos kanonSi

asaxulma wesebma araerTxel ganicada

transformacia rogorc

sakanonmdeblo cvlilebebis, ise

saqarTvelos sakonstitucio

sasamarTlos gadawyvetilebebis

Sedegad. pirveli arsebiTi cvlileba,

uflebis SezRudvis kuTxiT,

kanonSi 2009 wels Sevida, rodesac,

maT Soris, Sesasvlelebidan

20 metris radiusSi mdebare

teritoriaze Sekrebis Catarebis

akrZalva mTlianad gavrcelda

saxelmwifo dawesebulebaTa vrcel

CamonaTvalze. transportis

savali adgilis nawilobriv an

srulad gadaketvis SemTxveva ki,

monawileTa raodenobisgan damoukideblad,

gaTvaliswinebul iqna

Sekrebis dauyovnebliv Sewyvetis

SesaZleblobad. msgavsi gadaWarbebuli

akrZalvebis SemoReba

veneciis komisiam saswrafod dagmo.

es is SemTxveva iyo, rodesac

saakaSvilma saerTaSoriso azri

erT yurSi SeuSva da meoridan

gamouSva. veneciis komisiam es mas

mwared anana da 2011 wels, sakonstitucio

sasamarTlos gadawyvetilebiT,

Sekrebis Tavisuflebis

dacvis standarti gaizarda

da arakonstituciurad iqna cnobili

zemoaRniSnuli normebi.

arsebiTi xasiaTis sakanonmdeblo

cvlilebebis meore talRiT, romelic

2011 wlis pirvel ivliss

ganxorcielda, mniSvnelovnad gadaisinja

„Sekrebebisa da manifestaciebis

Sesaxeb” saqarTvelos

kanonSi cvlilebebisa da

damatebis Setanis Taobazesaqar-

Tvelos 2009 wlis 17 ivlisis

kanoni. mocemul SemTxvevaSi ukve

Sekrebis Tavisuflebis srulfasovani

realizebis uzrunvelsayofad

wingadadgmuli nabiji iyo

kanonSi uflebis SezRudvis zogadi

standartebisa da principebis

gawera. sxva pozitiur cvlilebebTan

erTad aseve Semcirda im

saxelmwifo dawesebulebaTa CamonaTvali,

romelTa Sesasvlelebidan

20 metris radiusSi mdebare

teritoriaze akrZalulia Sekrebis

Catareba. aseve gauqmda adgilobrivi

TviTmmarTvelobis organos

uflebamosileba, ganesazRvra

winaswari gafrTxilebis

gareSe Sekrebis Catarebis mudmivi

dro da adgili. Tumca, miuxedavad

am cvlilebisa, 2019

wlis ivnisis darbevis faqtma

uCvena, rom „Sekrebebisa da manifestaciebis

Sesaxeb” saqarTvelos

kanonSi kvlav rCeba araer-

Ti problemuri norma.

axla ki, Zalian gTxovT, yuradRebiT

moekideT Semdeg informacias:

saqarTvelos kanonis mixedviT,

„Sekreba” aris moqalaqeTa

jgufis Sekreba WerqveS an gareT,

mitingi sazogadoebrivi TavSeyris

adgilebSi, solidarobis an

protestis gamoxatvis mizniT;

xolo „manifestacia” warmoadgens

moqalaqeTa demonstracias, masobriv

sajaro gamosvlas, quCaSi

msvlelobis an protestis gamoxatvis

mizniT an msvlelobas

plakatebis, lozungebis, transparantebisa

da sxva saxviTi saSualebebis

gamoyenebiT. sayuradReboa,

rom Sekreba dakavSirebulia

TanamoazreTa garkveuli jgufis

arsebobasTan, gulisxmobs azris

gamoxatvis koleqtiur SesaZleblobas

da moiTxovs, sul mcire,

ori adamianis daswrebas, Tumca,

TiToeuli piri Sekrebis Tavisuflebis

realizebas individualurad

axdens. „manifestaciac”

Sekrebis erT-erTi saxea, romelsac

kanoni calke gamohyofs da

ganmartavs. Tumca Sekrebis sxva

formebis gansazRvrebas kanonmdebloba

ar gvTavazobs. amis gamo

sazogadoebrivi cxovrebis ganvi-

Tarebis Sedegad Camoyalibebuli

Sekrebis Tavisuflebis realizaciis

sxvadasxva forma efeqtiani

sakanonmdeblo regulirebis

miRma rCeba. roca unda, daarbeven,

roca unda, daSlian. Cveni

kanonmdebloba ar iTvaliswinebs

spontanuri Sekrebebis cnebas da

erTdroul Sekrebebs mxolod

fragmentulad aregulirebs.

saqarTvelos kanonSi ar aris gansazRvruli

sxvadasxva saxis specifikuri

Sekrebis momwesrigebeli

normebi. Cveni kanonmdebloba

iTvaliswinebs mxolod adgilobrivi

TviTmmarTvelobis aRmasrulebeli

organos 5 dRiT adre

winaswari gafrTxilebis valdebulebas

Sekrebis organizebisa

da Catarebis Sesaxeb, rodesac is

transportis saval adgilas imarTeba

an transportis moZraobas

aferxebs. hoda, adgilobrivi Tvi-

TmarTveloba unda, miscems nebarTvas,

unda, ar miscems. im pirobebSi,

roca kanoni spontanuri

Sekrebis cnebas ar ganmartavs,

arc winaswari gafrTxilebis valdebulebidan

adgens gamonakliss,

rodesac drois simciridan an

sxva obieqturi garemoebebidan

gamomdinare, msgavsi proceduris

dacva SeuZlebelia.

aRniSnuli problemis magali-

Tia 2018 wlis 12 maisis Rames sagamoZiebo

moqmedebebis gasaprotesteblad

Ramis klub „basianis”

mimdebare teritoriaze gamarTuli

spontanuri Sekreba. aseve 2019

wlis pirvel aprils WavWavaZis

gamzirze muSebis daRupvis

gasaprotesteblad gamarTuli

spontanuri Sekreba, romelzedac

6 monawile daakaves. sayuradReboa

2019 wlis 19 oqtombers mcocavi

okupaciis gasaprotesteblad,

nataxtris gzaze mimdinare

Sekrebac, romlis monawileebs,

miuxedavad mcire raodenobisa,

ar miecaT saSualeba, ramdenjerme

erTianad gadaekveTaT qveiT-

Ta araregulirebuli gadasasvleli.

monawileTa ganmartebiT,

maTi mizani transportis savali

nawilis gadaketva ki ara, „zebraze”

ramdenjerme gadasvla da

protestis msgavsi formiT gamoxatva

iyo. saqarTvelos Sinagan

saqmeTa saministrom es ase ganmarta,

rom TviTmmarTvelobebi

ar gaufrTxilebiaTo.

veneciis komisiam araerTxel

gaakritika saqarTvelo kanonmdeblobaSi

spontanuri Sekrebis gamarTvasTan

dakavSirebuli zemoxsenebuli

xarvezi da ufro moqnili

gafrTxilebis proceduris

aucileblobaze miuTiTa.

xsenebuli sakiTxis mowesrigebis

kargi magaliTia moldovis

kanonmdebloba, romelic, erTi

mxriv, ganmartavs spontanuri

Sekrebis cnebas, xolo, meore

mxriv, misi gamarTvisTvis adgens

winaswari Setyobinebis metad moqnil

sistemas, werilobiTi formisa

da Sesabamisi vadis daucvelad.

demokratiul qveynebSi

winaswari gafrTxilebis valdebuleba

xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebsa

da Sekrebis organizatorebs

Soris komunikaciis damyarebis

winapirobasa da policiis

mxridan misi sworad gamoyenebis

SemTxvevaSi, Semdgomi Tanamromlobis

formats qmnis.

moldova aSkard gvaswrebs

demokratiaSi.

problemas qmnis is garemoebac,

rom spontanuri Sekrebis dros,

drois simciris gamo, umetes Sem-

TxvevaSi, rTulia saTanado xarisxis

informaciis Segroveba da,

Sesabamisad, riskebis Sefaseba,

28

28 N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.


eri oqtombris arCevnebis win siminds?!

ucnobia organizatorebis vinaoba

da limitirebulia maTTan

pirdapiri komunikaciis, maTze

zegavlenis moxdenis SesaZlebloba.

amitom policia xSir SemTxvevaSi

darbevaze gadadis. roca

ver marTavs, urCevnia, daSalos.

im pirobebSi, roca saqarTvelos

kanonmdebloba calke regulaciebs

ar icnobs, ZiriTadad iZulebis

RonisZiebebis gamoyenebiT

uwevs Sekrebis marTva.

„sajaro Sekrebebis Sesaxeb”

moldovis respublikis 2008 wlis

kanonis me-3 muxlis Tanaxmad,

spontanuri Sekreba ganimarteba

rogorc Sekreba, romlis inicireba

an organizeba xdeba sazogadoebrivi

movlenis myisier pasuxad;

romelic, monawileTa SexedulebiT,

ar SeiZleba gadaidos da

romlisTvisac SeuZlebelia standartuli

Setyobinebis proceduris

dacva.

xom SeiZleba, rom magaliTad,

partiebi or sxvadasxva Sekrebas

sxvadasxva adgilas marTavdes?

amas hqvia erTdrouli Sekrebebi.

kanoni arc amgvar Sekrebas ganixilavs.

kanonSi specialuri normebis

ararsebobis miuxedavad, praqtikaSi

erTdrouli Sekrebebi sakmaod

xSiri movlenaa da, Ziri-

Tadad, daZabuli garemoTi gamoirCeva.

aris SemTxvevebi, rodesac

Sekrebis Tavisuflebis realizacia

kontrSekrebebis dros

Seuferxeblad xorcieldeba, magaliTad,

2017 wlis 21 aprils

ungreTis premier-ministris momxreTa

da mowinaaRmdegeTa aqciebi

TbilisSi sastumro „qor-

Tiard mariotTan”.

erT-erTi mwvave problemaa

xelisuflebis mxridan Zaladobrivi

jgufebis Sekrebis TavisuflebiT

mosargeble, gansxvavebuli

mosazrebis mqone pirebad

ganxilva. anu pirebi, romlebic

ar arian Zaladobrivi qmedebis

ganmaxorcieleblebi, policia

ganixilavs maT moZaladeebad.

2017 da 2018 wlebSi gamarTuli

Sekrebebi SezRuduli iyo

drosa da sivrceSi.

aRsaniSnavia, rom erTdrouli

Sekrebebis SemTxvevaSi, kanonmdebloba

adgilobrivi TviTmmarTvelobis

aRmasrulebel organos

aniWebs uflebamosilebas, gafr-

Txilebis miRebidan sami dRis

ganmavlobaSi, Sekrebis an manifestaciis

organizebisa da CatarebisTvis

pasuxismgebeli pirebis

TandaswrebiT ganixilos Sekrebis

an manifestaciis Catarebis

adgilisa da drois Secvlis mizanSewonilobis

sakiTxi da maT

werilobiT gadasces rekomendacia

amis Sesaxeb.

kanoni arc erT zemoT ganxilul

SemTxvevaSi srulyofilad

ar gansazRvravs, ra garemoebebi

unda miiRebodes mxedvelobaSi

droisa Tu adgilis Secvlis Sesaxeb

rekomendaciis gacemis gadawyvetilebis

miRebisas. magali-

Tad, msgavs incindents hqonda

adgili 2019 wlis 8 ivliss, rodesac

parlamentis mimdebare teritoriaze

antisaokupacio aqciis

gamarTvis SesaZlebloba ar misces.

policiis perspeqtividan kontrSekrebis

marTva sazogadoebrivi

wesrigis dacvis erT-erTi

urTulesi amocanaa. meore mxriv,

Zalebis maqsimaluri mobilizeba

„Sesabamisi raodenobis policielebis

gamoyvana” kontrSekrebebis

gamarTvis xelSemwyob Ziri-

Tad instrumentebad miiCneva.

Tumca mxolod specialurad aR-

Wurvili policiis didi raodenobis

mobilizeba yovelTvis ar

aris sakmarisi Sedegis misaRwevad.

magaliTad, 2017 wlis 20

agvistos, aSS-Si, masaCusetsis

Statis qalaq bostonSi, policiam,

maqsimaluri zomebis miRebis

miuxedavad, usafrTxoebis

moTxovnebidan gamomdinare,

„Tavisufali sityvis Sekreba” vadaze

adre Sewyvita 40 000-mde

kontrdemonstrantis paraleluri

Sekrebis gamo, romlebic

„Tavisufali sityvis Sekrebis”

monawileTa daSlis miuxedavad,

ramdenime saaTis ganmavlobaSi ar

daSlilan. msgavsad, moldovaSi,

kiSiniovSi, 2017 wlis 21 maiss,

policiam didi raodenobiT specialuri

daniSnulebis razmis

mobilizebis miuxedavad, ver SeZlo

lgbtq Temis manifestaciis

dacva da kontrdemonstraciis

gamo, usafrTxoebis moTxovnebidan

gamomdinare, igi vadaze

adre Sewyvita. msgavsi SemTxveva

moxda TbilisSic, rodesac 2018

wlis 13 maiss, parlamentis win

mimdinare aqciis „Cveni TavisuflebisTvis”

paralelurad, neonacisturi

jgufebis mier organizebuli

kontraqcia gaimarTa.

adgilze policiis kordonis mobilizebis

miuxedavad, kontrSekrebis

monawileTa mxridan

adgili hqonda Zaladobis muqarasa

da fizikur Zaladobas. Sinagan

saqmeTa ministrTan Sexvedrisa da

molaparakebis formatis SeTavazebis

Semdeg, viTarebis eskalaciis

Tavidan asacileblad, „Cveni

TavisuflebisTvis” aqciis organizatorebma

gadawyvites, SeewyvitaT

saprotesto Sekreba.

es magaliTebi problemis simwvaveze

mianiSnebs. aseT pirobeb-

Si, spontanuri Sekrebebis SemTxvevis

msgavsad, principuli mniSvneloba

eniWeba kontrSekrebis

gamarTvasTan dakavSirebuli sakiTxebis

kanonis doneze regulirebas.

saerTaSoriso standartiT,

mxolod mSvidobiani Sekreba

aris daculi ufleba.

adamianis uflebaTa evropuli

sasamarTlos 2015 wlis 15 oqtombris

gadawyvetileba saqmeze, Kudrevièius

and Others v. Lithuania, sasamarTlos

miTiTebiT, Sekrebis

TavisuflebiT ar aris daculi

imgvari Sekrebebi, romlis monawileebsac

Zaladobrivi zraxvebi

aqvT, Zaladobisken mouwodeben an

sxvagvarad uaryofen demokratiuli

sazogadoebis safuZvlebs.

CISSE v. FRANCE, sasamarTlom

ganmarta, rom praqtikaSi mxolod

imgvari RonisZiebebi ar dakvalificirebula

„mSvidobian Sekrebad”,

romlis organizatorebsa

da monawileebs ganzraxuli hqondaT

Zaladoba. sxva yvela saxis

Sekreba, rac ar unda mravalricxovani

da xmauriani iyos igi, mSvidobiania.

es kargad unda gaiTavisos

saqarTvelos xelisuflebam,

gansakuTrebiT Sinagan saqmeTa

saministrom.

gasaTvaliswinebelia isic, rom

termini „mSvidobiani” imgvarad

unda ganimartos, rom moicvas

qmedebebi, romlebic, SesaZloa,

vinmes aRizianebdes an Seuracxyofdes,

agreTve, droebiT aferxebdes

an xels uSlides mesame

pirTa aqtivobebs. amdenad, magaliTisTvis,

wmindad pasiuri

winaaRmdegoba, rac araZaladobrivi

qmedebebiT (maT Soris, mjdomare

formiT) samoqalaqo daumorCileblobas

gulisxmobs,

unda CaiTvalos mSvidobianad.

esec kargad daimaxsovros

saqarTvelos xelisuflebam!

Sekreba, saerTaSoriso standartiT,

mSvidobianad miiCneva

maSinac, Tu aqciis organizatorebs

yvela iuridiuli moTxovna

ar aqvT dakmayofilebuli. am

TvalsazrisiT, sayuradReboa,

rom, magaliTad, winaswari gafrTxilebis

valdebulebis darRveviT

Sekrebis gamarTva, agreTve,

transportis moZraobis Seferxeba,

romelic Tan sdevs Sekrebas,

akmayofilebs mSvidobianobis

kriteriums. aseT SemTxvevaSi,

mSvidobiani Sekreba ar unda daeqvemdebaros

daSlas. magaliTad,

saqmeSi, Oya Ataman v. Turkey, adamianis

uflebaTa evropulma sasamarTlom

ganixila SemTxveva,

rodesac individTa mcire jgufi,

erT-erT parkSi, dRis datvir-

Tul monakveTSi, kanonmdeblobis

moTxovnaTa sawinaaRmdegod, winaswari

gafrTxilebis gareSe Seikriba.

isini ar daemorCilnen policiis

moTxovnas daSlis Sesaxeb,

ris Sedegadac, Sekrebidan naxevar

saaTSi, samarTaldamcvelebma

Sekreba cremlsadeni gazis

gamoyenebiT Sewyvites, xolo demonstrantTa

umravlesoba daakaves.

sasamarTlom miuTiTa, rom

winaswari gafrTxilebis ararsebobis

pirobebSi, Sekreba iyo ukanono,

Tumca es uflebiT dacul

sferoSi Carevas ar amarTlebda.

kerZod, mocemul SemTxvevaSi, ar

ikveTeboda, rom manifestantebi

safrTxes uqmnidnen sajaro wesrigs,

garda maT mier transportis

moZraobis mosalodneli

Seferxebisa. samagierod, evropis

sasamarTlom gaakritika xelisuflebis

sulswrafoba, Sekreba

daesrulebina im pirobebSi,

rodesac monawileebi ar mimar-

Tavdnen Zaladobriv qmedebebs.

aqve sapirispiro magaliTic

unda moviSvelioT” adamianis

uflebaTa evropulma sasamarTlom,

saqmeSi, Kudrevièius and Others

v. Lithuania, fermerebis mier qveynis

sami ZiriTadi magistralis 48

saaTze meti xniT dakaveba, ramac

mniSvnelovani diskomforti Seuqmna

tvirTis gadamzidavTa da

kerZo avtomobilebis moZraobas,

marTalia, mSvidobian Sekrebad

ganixila, Tumca aqve ganmarta,

rom avtosagzao moZraobisa da

cxovrebis Cveuli ritmis mizanmimarTuli

Seferxeba da sxvaTa

qmedebebis mniSvnelovnad dazianeba

ar aris konvenciiT daculi

Sekrebis Tavisuflebis arsebiTi

nawili. Sesabamisad, miuxedavad

imisa, rom ganmcxadeblebs

arc Tavad CaudeniaT Zaladobrivi

qmedebebi da arc sxvebisTvis

mouwodebiaT amgvari qmedebebisken,

evropulma sasamarTlom maT

qcevaze sanqciebis gavrceleba

legitimuri miznis miRwevis Tanazomier

saSualebad miiCnia.

marTlwesrigis damcvel Tanamdebobis

pirTa mier Zalisa da

cecxlsasroli iaraRis gamoyenebis

Sesaxeb gaeros ZiriTadi

principebis Sesabamisad, rodesac

saxezea ukanono, Tumca araZaladobrivi

Sekreba, samarTaldamcvelebma

Tavi unda Seikavon Zalis

gamoyenebisgan, xolo rodesac

es arapraqtikulia, aseTi Zalis

gamoyeneba SezRudon minimalurad

aucilebel donemde.

iciT, kidev ras ambobs evropuli

sasamarTlos kanonmdebloba?

gagikvirdebaT! rom mniSvnelovania,

saxelmwifom gamoiCinos

garkveuli xarisxis Semwynarebloba

Tundac ukanono, magram

mSvidobiani Sekrebebis mimarT.

aCvena Tu ara saxelmwifom

„Semwynareblobis saTanado xarisxi”,

SeuZlebelia ganisazRvros

in abstracto: anu unda Sefasdes

saqmis konkretuli garemoebebi,

gansakuTrebiT ki, „cxovrebis

Cveuli ritmis” darRvevis farglebi.

am konteqstSi sagulisxmoa

2019 wlis 18 da 26 noembers

saqarTvelos parlamentis piketirebis

mizniT gamarTuli Sekrebebi,

romelTa monawileebis winaaRmdeg,

Senobis blokirebidan ramdenime

saaTis gasvlis Semdeg, wylis

Wavli gamoiyenes. marTalia,

Sekrebis monawileTa aRniSnuli

qceva ewinaaRmdegeboda „Sekrebebisa

da manifestaciebis Sesaxeb”

saqarTvelos kanons, Tumca zemoT

ganxiluli standartis Tanaxmad,

xsenebuli faqti ar gamoricxavda

aqciis mSvidobian xasiaTs,

miT ufro, im pirobebSi,

rodesac monawileebi ar mimar-

Tavdnen raime saxis Zaladobriv

qmedebebs. qarTul xelisuflebas

SeeZlo, Semwynarebloba gamoeCina,

rac ar gaakeTa. ras izam?! _

ar aris „ocnebisTvis” Sewynareba,

sibraluli, mimtevebloba

Zlieri mxare. Tan tyviiT da wylis

WavlebiT garToba Cvens samarTaldamcvelebs

Zalian uyvarT

_ 2019 wlis 26 noembers,

dilis 5 saaTze, wylis Wavlis

gamoyeneba ar SeiZleba, miCneul

iqnes aucileblobad demokratiul

sazogadoebaSi.

2017 wlis 11-12 marts baTumSi

policiis mier Zaladobrivi

Sekrebis daSla saxalxo damcvelma

gaakritika, rogorc „aradamakmayofilebeli

reagireba”. es magaliTebi

naTlad miuTiTebs

policiis rTul mdgomareobaze.

policiis departamentebi Sekrebebis

marTvis dros dilemis winaSe

dganan: moaxdinon swrafi da

agresiuli sapolicio reagireba,

romelic zrdis Zalis gadaWarbebis

SesaZleblobas, maSin rodesac

SezRuduli sapolicio reagireba

im imediT, rom incidenti TavisiT

damSviddeba, iwvevs braldebebs

arakompetenturobis Taobaze.

ar unda dagvaviwydes is garemoebac,

rom dReisTvis garkveul

standarts ayalibebs Sinagan saqmeTa

ministris 2015 wlis 30 dekembris

#1002 brZaneba, romelic

gansazRvravs mSvidobiani da

aramSvidobiani Sekrebis monawileebis

gamijvnisa da policiis

mxridan maTdami individualuri

mopyrobis valdebulebas.

N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.

29

TavisTavad kargia, rom cecx-

li Sewydeba da adamianebi aRar

daiRupebian, Tumca eqspertTa

nawili miiCnevs, rom es mSvidoba

myife da omze rTuli iqneba. ise,

mTiani

yarabaRis konfliqtis ga-

naxlebis dRidanve gaCnda mosaz-

reba, rom yvelafer amis ukan Ses-

aZloa, kremli mdgariyo, rasac,

ac,

pirdapir Tu iribad, Cveni respondentic,

„mebrZolTa ligis” dam-

fuZnebeli, Tadarigis oficeri,

„strategia aRmaSeneblis” gundis

wevri, badri Seliac iziarebs. ama-

sTan, „qronika+~-sTan Selia im

safrTxeebisa da provokaciebis

Sesaxebac saubrobs, romelsac

yarabaRis ganaxlebuli konfliq-

tis fonze saqarTvelo Crdilo-

eTidan unda elodos.

_ badri, ramdenime dRis win

kaxeTis or sofelSi upilito

safreni aparatebi Camovarda. amas

somxeT-azerbaijanis ganaxlebuli

omis gamoZaxilad miiCnevT?

_ diax, marTals brZanebT. sagarejosa

da yvarlis raionebSi

ucxo qveynis upiloto safreni

aparatebi Camovarda. eWvgareSea,

faqti somxeT-azerbaijans Soris

ganaxlebul sabrZolo moqmedebebs

ukavSirdeba. Camovardnili

upilotoebi, savaraudod, gaxlavT

israelis warmoebis upiloto e. w.

kamikaZe safreni aparatebi _ Haropi.

cnobilia, rom Harop-is tipis

upiloto safreni aparatebi azerbaijanis

armiis SeiaraRebaSia. azerbaijanis

prezidentis mrCevelma,

hiqmed ajievma, ganacxada, _ iq,

sadac sasazRvro xazi arsebobs, msgavsi

problemebis warmoSoba yovelTvis

SesaZlebeliao. anu ar uaryo,

rom es aparatebi azerbaijans

ekuTvnis. sainteresoa, sabrZolo

moqmedebebidan aranakleb 100 kilometris

moSorebiT, saqarTvelos

teritoriaze, es aparatebi

rogor moxvda?!

_ es, wesiT, gamoZiebam unda

daadginos, magram Tqveni versia

rogoria?

_ konfliqtSi monawile mxareebi

maTi safreni aparatebis miznamde

farulad miaxloebis marSrutad

saqarTvelos sahaero sivrces

iyeneben an ruseTis radioeleqtronuli

brZolis specialuri

qvedanayofebi Caeria da aRniSnuli

upilotoebis marTva veragulad

miitaca. am ori versiidan Cveni

qveynisTvis erTic uaRresad sa-

SiSia da _ meorec. mokled, kiTxvebs

pasuxi gamoZiebam unda gasces,

Tumca sanam xelisuflebaSi

„ocnebaa”, ar mgonia, sazogadoebam

am saqmeze simarTle Seityos! sxvaTa

Soris, am faqtma saqarTvelos

Tavdacvisunarianobis seriozul

xarvezebze Cemi rwmena gaamyara,

rac Zalian maSfoTebs.

_ saerTod, yarabaRis konfliqtis

gacocxlebas ras uka-

SirebT, anu iziarebT calkeuli

eqspertis mosazrebas, rom yve-

30


`saakaSvilma saqarTvelos

9 oqtombers azerbaijanisa da

giorgi abaSiZe

somxeTis sagareo saqmeTa ministrebi

moskovSi Cavidnen da ram-

denimesaaTiani molaparakebis Semdeg cnobili gaxda, rom

mTian yarabaRSi cecxli humanitaruli mizniT Sewydeba. „az-

erbaijanisa da somxeTis respublikebi, euTos minskis jgufis

TanaTavmjdomareebis SuamavlobiTa da konfliqtis daregu-

lirebis principebze dayrdnobiT, iwyeben arsebiT molapar-

akebebs konfliqtis mSvidobiani daregulirebis rac SeiZleba

swrafad misaRwevad”, _ aRniSnulia Sexvedris Semdeg gavr-

celebul erTobliv gancxadebaSi.

lafer amis ukan SesaZloa, ruse-

Ti idges?

_ iqidan gamomdinare, rom

mTiani yarabaRis konfliqti, ase

vTqvaT, Zalian daxurulia, radgan

iq saerTaSoriso sadamkvireblo

misiebi ar imyofebian, uaRresad

bundovania, realurad konfliqti

romelma mxarem ganaaxla, Tumca

faqtia, rom azerbaijani am sabrZolo

moqmedebebisTvis gacilebiT

ufro momzadebuli aRmoCnda,

vidre _ somxeTi. azerbaijanis

prezidents araerTxel

sajarod ganucaxdebia, konfliqtis

mSvidobianad da samarTlianad

gadasawyvetad mzad varT, magram

Tu es ver moxerxda, maSin konfliqtis

samxedro Zalis gamoyenebiT

gadawyvetasac ar gamovricxavTo.

aqedan gamomdinare,

oficialurma baqom, albaT, miiCnia,

rom saamisod axla Sesaferisi

droa. im indikatorebidan, ramac

azerbaijanis xelisuflebas mTian

yarabaRze kontrolis samxedro

ZaliT aRdgenis gadawyvetileba

miaRebina, erT-erTi aucileblad

is iqneboda, rom bolo dros aSkara

gaxda, ruseTi faSinians ar swyalobs,

anu kremli faSinians mas

mere ar swyalobs, rac man gadawyvita,

rom saerTaSoriso urTier-

TobebSi ruseTisgan damoukideblad

iTamaSos. faSinianis nabijebi

saSinao da sagareo politikaSi

Tavidanve somxeTis Sida saqmeebidan

ruseTis „Caxsnas” emsaxureboda,

rasac aqamde Zalian diplomatiurad

da xmauris gareSe axerxebda.

aqedan gamomdinare, somxeTis,

konkretulad, faSinianis winaaRmdeg

ruseTis uCveulo dumili,

Cemi azriT, imaze metyvelebs, rom

ruseTs, pirvel rigSi, surs, igi

diplomatiurad moiSoros. Tu azerbaijani

am sabrZolo moqmedebebiT

mniSvnelovan teritoriebze

kontrolis aRdgenas moaxerxebs,

es faSinianisa da misi gundisTvis

sasikvdilo politikuri ganaCeni

iqneba da konfliqtis Cawynarebis

Semdeg somexi xalxis risxva mas

namdvilad ar ascdeba! am fonze ki

ruseTi Seecdeba, somxeTSi isev

mkacrad prorusuli xelisufleba

moiyvanos. putinis oficialuri

gancxadeba, radgan saomari moqmedebebi

somxeTis teritoriaze

ar mimdinareobs, amitom ruseTs ar

aqvs valdebuleba, somxeTs pirdapiri

samxedro damxareba gauwioso,

faSinianis wisqvilze namdvilad ar

asxams wyals. miuxedevad imisa, rom

azerbaijans TurqeTi uWers mxars,

ruseTi Seecdeba, am konfliqtSi

Tavisi warmomadgenlobiTi saWiroebis

sakiTxi daayenos, anu konfliqtis

zonaSi rusi samSvidoboebis

ganTavseba moiTxovos da

ase Seecados, rom Tavisi samxedro

warmomadgenloba azerbaijanis

teritoriazec Seqmnas.

_ yvelaferi es gasagebia, ma-

gram somxeT-azerbaijanis sam-

xedro dapirispireba saqarTvelosa

da, zogadad, samxreT kavka-

sias ra safrTxes uqmnis?

_ cnobilia, rom somxeTsa da

azerbaijans Soris mTian yarabaR-

Tan dakavSirebiT daZabuloba mas

Semdeg daiwyo, rac stalinma somxebiT

dasaxlebuli mTiani yarabaRi

azerbaijans gadasca. ssrk-is daSlis

Semdeg es daZabuloba samxedro

konfliqtSi gadaizarda. saerTaSoriso

sazogadoeba mTian

yarabaRs azerbaijanis teritoriad

miiCnevs. swored amitom aqvs azerbaijans

am teritoriaze pretenzia.

1994 wlidan dRemde Cvens mezobel

qveynebs Soris araerTi

samxedro konfliqti momxdara.

somxeTi mTiani yarabaRis separatistul

reJims uWers mxars da 1994

wels, mTian yarabaRamde, azerbaijanis

teritoriebis okupacia

moaxdina, ris Sedegadac mTian

yarabaRTan pirdapiri teritoriuli

Sexeba aqvs. azerbaijani omis-

Tvis yvela mimarTulebiT emzadeboda,

bolo dros Tavisi SeiaraRebuli

Zalebis mniSvnelovani struqturuli

reorganizaciac moax-

samxedro SesaZleblobebSi damoukidebelia

da mas natos wevri

TurqeTis Zalian Zlieri armia umagrebs

zurgs. aRsaniSnavia, rom

orive qveyanam mobilizacia gamoacxada.

saerTod, qveynebi mobilizacias

mcire dapirispirebebis

gamo ar acxadeben xolme...

yvelafer aqedan gamodinare,

yarabaRis omis farTo masStabebSi

gadasvla saqarTvelosTvis safrTxes

ramdenime mimarTulebiT

Seicavs:

1. ruseTi saqarTvelos, Tavisi

samxedro Zalebis somxeTSi gadasaadgileblad,

aucileblad da

kategoriulad mosTxovs derefans.

Tu saqarTvelo dasTanxmda,

Cvens teritoriaze rusuli

samxedro Zalebis dausrulebeli

moZraoba daiwyeba, rac ar unda

davuSvaT;

2. farTomasStabiani omis SemTxvevaSi

devnilTa uzarmazari nakadi

wamova rogorc azerbaijanidan,

aseve _ somxeTidan;

3. saqarTveloSi mcxovreb eTnikurad

azerbaijanel da somex moqalaqeebze

aucileblad imuSaveben

rusuli specsamsaxurebi da

eTnikuri SuRlisa da dapirispirebis

inicirebas Seecdebian.

ar dagaviwydeT, rom saqarTveloSi

230 000 eTnikuri azerbaijaneli

da 170 000 eTnikuri somexi

cxovrobs.

weRandeli Tqmisa ar iyos, somxeT-azerbaijans

Soris mTian yarabaxTan

dakavSirebiT, bolo 30

wlis ganmavlobaSi, araerTi samxedro-politikuri

dapirispireba

yofila, Tumca Cveni eTnikurad

azerbaijaneli da somexi moqalaqeebi

yovelTvis mowodebis

simaRleze idgnen da saqarTvelos

saxelmwifo interesebs pativs

scemdnen, anu maT Soris yarabaRis

gamo eTnikuri niSniT dapirispireba

arasdros dawyebula. darwmunebuli

var, rom isini Cveni qveynis

interesebis erTgulni bolomde

darCebian da rusul provokaciebs

arc axla ahyvebian, romelic

kargis momtani, pirvel rigSi,

arc somxeTisTvis da arc azerbaijanisTvis

ar iqneba!

saerTod, saqarTveloSi msgavsi

eTnikuri dapirispireba warmoudgenlad

didi „saCuqari” mxolod

okupanti ruseTisTvis iqneba...

mokled, ruseTi yvelanairad Seecdeba,

rom yarabaRis omis farbadri

Selia:

`daviTgarejis

garSemo dawyebuli

es sruliad

gaugebari saqme

somxeT-azerbaijanis

konfliqts

Segnebulad

daamTxvies!~

dina. aseve aRsaniSnavia, rom azerbaijanma

ramdenime saartilerio

divizia erT uzarmazar dajgufebad

gaaerTiana da mTeli es si-

Zliere ise ganalaga, rom mTian

yarabaRTan Sexebis xazi mTlianad

dafara. amasTan, Zalian gaaZliera

upiloto safreni aparatebis Sesa-

Zleblobebi, aviacia da satanko

qvedanayofebi da mTeli qveynis

teritoria sahareo TavdacviTi 4-

safexuriani sistemiT dafara. paralelurad,

TurqeTis SeiaraRebul

ZalebTan erTad, araerTi

farTomasStabiani samxedro wvrTna

Caatara, sadac yvela saxeobis

jaris urTierTqmedeba daxvewa.

somxeTma ki Tavisi samxedro Sesa-

Zleblobebi ruseTTan xelmowerili

xelSekrulebiT gaaZliera,

romlis mixedviTac somxur-rusuli

erToblivi samxedro dajgufeba

Seiqmna. misi pirdapiri daniSnulebac

somxeTisa da ruseTis teritoriaze,

saWiroebis SemTxvevaSi,

samxedro moqmedebebis Catarebaa.

am SeTanxmebiTve somxeTi, praqtikulad,

putinis keTil nebazea damokidebuli,

azerbaijani ki Tavis

`Camovardnili upilotoebi, savaraudod,

gaxlavT israelis warmoebis upiloto e. w.

kamikaZe safreni aparatebi - Harop-i. -i. cnobilia,

rom Harop-is -is tipis upiloto safreni

aparatebi azerbaijanis armiis SeiaraRebaSia.

azerbaijanis prezidentis mrCevelma, hiqmed

ajievma, ganacxada, - iq, sadac sasazRvro xazi

arsebobs, msgavsi problemebis warmoSoba

yovelTvis SesaZlebeliao. anu ar uaryo, rom

es aparatebi azerbaijans ekuTvnis~

30 N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.


neitralurobis principi daarRvia!~

To masStabebi saqarTvelosac

maqsimalurad Seexos. amitom Cven

neitraliteti unda SevinarCunoT

da yvelaferi gavakeToT, rom am

or moZme ers Soris konfliqtis

deeskalacia moxdes.

_ badri, es konfliqti SeiZleba,

ise ganvixiloT, rogorc msoflios

axali gadanawilebis Semad-

geneli?

_ diax, SeiZleba, axali gadanawilebis

mcdelobad ganvixiloT.

sabWoTa kavSiris daSlis Semdeg,

kavkasiis regionze Tavisi strategiuli

mdebareobidan gamomdinare,

pretenzia aqvs ramdenime geostrategiulad

aqtiur qveyanas. rogorc

wesi, politikuri omebis udidesi

nawili swored strategiuli

teritoriebis kontrolze fokusirdeba.

ruseTs TavisTavad surs,

rom regionze adrindeli gavlena

srulyofilad aRidginos. gavlenis

zrdis ambicia TurqeTsac aqvs

da cdilobs, regionSi mniSvnelovan

moTamaSed warmoCindes. aseve

regionSi Tavisi gavlenis gazrda

iransac surs; bolo aTi welia, regioniT

gansakuTrebiT dainteresebulia

CineTic. aSS ki, Tavisi mizanmimarTuli

da dabalansebuli

politikiT, regionSi yvela zemoT

CamoTvlilTagan upirates mdgomareobaSia

da mTel regionze misi

gavlena Zalian didia, rac sasicocxlod

mniSvnelovan rols Tama-

Sobs regionis, gansakuTrebiT ki,

saqarTvelos demokratiul ganvi-

TarebaSi. yvelafer aqedan gamomdinare,

zemoCamoTvlil qveynebs regionTan

gansxvavebuli midgomebi

aqvT. maTi interesebis sicocxlisunarianobisTvis

aucilebelia regionSi

Semavali qveynebis keTilganwyoba

an maTi sruli Tu ara nawilobrivi

okupacia (rusuli modeli).

mokled, Cven am procesebis

qarcecxlSi vimyofebiT da imisTvis,

rom es qarcecxli warmatebiT

gaviaroT, Cveni qveynisTvis

sasicocxlod mniSvnelovania dasavluri

kursis SenarCuneba, Cvens

startegiul mokavSire amerikis

SeerTebul StatebTan urTierTobebis

kidev ufro gaRrmaveba da

demokratiuli institutebis ganmtkiceba.

evrokavSirsa da natoSi

gawevrianebis garda Cvens qveyanas

sxva xsna ar gaaCnia! Cven TviTon

unda avirCioT, sad „gadavnawildeT”.

Sesabamisad, 31 oqtombris

arCevnebi am kuTxiT umniSvnelovanesia.

_ sxvaTa Soris, mixeil saakaSvilma

Tavis erT-erT bolo gancx-

adebaSi pirdapir Tqva, rom mTiani

yarabaRi azerbaijanis teritori-

aa. es provokaciuli gancxadeba

xom ar iyo?

_ premier-ministrobis kandidatisgan,

Cemi azriT, es uadgilo

gancxadeba iyo, riTac man neitralurobis

principi daarRvia.

_ ise, badri, rogor fiqrobT,

daviTgarejis garSemo gamoZiebis

dawyeba da somxeT-azerbaijanis

konfliqti erTmaneTs SemTxveviT

daemTxva?

_ vfiqrob, rom daviTgarejis

garSemo dawyebuli es sruliad

gaugebari saqme somxeT-azerbaijanis

konfliqts Segnebulad daamTxvies.

rogorc Cans, xelisuflebis

zogierTi wevri fiqrobs, rom amiT

azerbaijanzec garkveul zemoqmedebas

moaxdenen, Tumca yvelaferi

es mainc winasaarCevno politikis

nawili mgonia da meti araferi.

Cveni qveynisTvis am process mx-

`miuxedevad imisa, rom azerbaijans TurqeTi uWers mxars, ruseTi Seecdeba, am

konfliqtSi Tavisi warmomadgenlobiTi saWiroebis sakiTxi daayenos, anu

konfliqtis zonaSi rusi samSvidoboebis ganTavseba moiTxovos da ase

Seecados, rom Tavisi samxedro warmomadgenloba azerbaijanis

teritoriazec Seqmnas~

olod negatiuri Sedegebis motana

SeuZlia!

_ e. i. fiqrobT, rom daviTgarejis

saqmeze gamoZiebis dawye-

ba xelisuflebas arCevnebisTvis

awyobs da yvelafer amas samarT-

lebrivi safuZveli ar gaaCnia?

_ xelisuflebam es speqtakli,

ra Tqma unda, winasaarCevnod moawyo.

saerTod, daviTgarejis sakiTxi

Cveni sazogadoebisa eklesiisTvis

Zalian mtkivneulia... moindomes,

am sakiTxTan dakavSirebiT

TavianTi danaSaulebrivi gadawyvetilebebi

sxvebs gadaabralon.

nebismieri adamiani, vinc samxedro

an, ubralod, rukebSi erkveva

(samwuxarod, Cvens xelisuflebaSi

aseTebi TiTze CamosaTvlelebic

ar arian) mixvdeba, rom 1:200 000

masStabis rukis meSveobiT, razedac

fanqris wveriT erTi wertilis

dasma, anu ubralo wertili,

realurad, adgilmdebareobaze 200

metrs faravs, 1 santimetri ki am

masStabis rukaze 2000 metris tolia,

SeuZlebelia, zustad daadgino,

esa Tu is xazi sad gadis. Cem-

Tvis gaugebaria, gamoZiebam am ruk-

N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.

is meSveobiT „simarTle” rogor

daadgina?! rogorc wesi, adgilmdebareobis

zustad dasadgenad

msxvilmasStabian rukebs iyeneben

xolme.

_ ise, daviTgarejis saqmis par-

alelurad, saydrisis afeTebis

gamoZiebac xom ar unda daiwyos?

_ am xelisuflebis dros saydrisis

afeTqebaze gamoZiebis dawyebaze

saubaric ki alogikuria,

Tumca darwmunebuli var, rom

Sors araa is dro, roca axali xelisuflebis

dros Camoyalibebuli

damoukidebeli sasamarTlo

sistema am saqmes aucileblad gamoiZiebs!

_ arsebobs mosazreba, rom daviTgarejis

saqmeze gamoZiebis daw-

yeba rusuli provokaciaa. Tqvenc

ase fiqrobT?

_ iciT, ra mafiqrebs?

_ ra?

_ ruka, romelzedac prokuratura

saubrobs da braldebulebi

msgavsi rukis aqamde arsebobas

ar aRiareben, aSkaraa, rom qveyana-

Si bolo drosaa Semotanili. yvelas

gvaxsovs patriotebis Zalian

ìm indikatorebidan, ramac azerbaijanis

xelisuflebas mTian yarabaRze kontrolis

samxedro ZaliT aRdgenis gadawyvetileba

miaRebina, erT-erTi aucileblad is iqneboda,

rom bolo dros aSkara gaxda, ruseTi

faSinians ar swyalobs, anu kremli faSinians

mas mere ar swyalobs, rac man gadawyvita,

rom saerTaSoriso urTierTobebSi

ruseTisgan damoukideblad iTamaSos~

saeWvo viziti afxazeTSi, sadac

isini viTom iloris taZarSi mosalocad

imyofebodnen da iloris

taZars xati usaxsovres. ramdenime

dRis Semdeg ki afxazurma mxarem

aRniSnuli xati ukan daabruna, Tan

ganacxada, rom xati eklesiuri wesiT

ar iyo Sesrulebuli da, ubralod,

amonabeWds warmoadgenda.

vinmem Seamowma, okupirebuli afxazeTidan

xatis safarqveS ra gadmovida?

_ saerTod, arCevnebis moaxloebis

paralelurad, CrdiloeTidan

ra provokaciebs elodeb-

iT?

_ roca ruseTi dums, ar imuqreba

da saqarTvelos ar akritikebs,

e. i., aq yvelaferi kargad misdis.

yvelaze didi provokacia ruseTma

2012 wels ukve mogviwyo da

miviReT arsebuli prorusuli xelisufleba!

ruseTi, ra Tqma unda,

Seecdeba, arsebul xelisuflebas

xeli Seuwyos, rom qveynis marTvis

sadaveebi SeinarCunos. Sesabamisad,

ruseTidan SesaZlo provokaciebis

CamonaTvali mravalferovania,

Tumca yvelaze saxifaTo yarabaRis

konfliqtis fonze eTnikur

umciresobebs Soris daZabulobis

Seqmnis mcdeloba iqneba.

_ badri, Tqveni azriT, qarTu-

li saxelmwifo mzadaa, rom am

rusul hibrdiul omsa da sxva

saxis gamowvevebs gauZlos?

_ hibriduli omis elementebi

ruseTma 2008 wlis ruseTsaqarTvelos

sabrZolo moqmedebebis

dros pirvelad gamoiyena. mas

Semdeg sagrZnoblad daxvewa da,

praqtikulad, yvelgan gaavrcela,

sadac misi interesebi ikveTeba.

hibriduli omi dasavleTisTvisac

siaxle iyo da masTan gasamklaveblad

mTeli struqturul-organizaciuli

cvlilebebis gatarebac

ki mouwia, Tumca ukve arsebuli

gamocdilebiT, yvela Tanxmdeba,

rom hibriduli omis gavlena

iseT qveynebSi, sadac demokratiuli

institutebi gamarTulad da

srulyofilad muSaoebs, Zalian

sustia.

hibridulma omma jariskacsa da

Cveulebriv samoqalaqo pirs Soris

zRvari waSala, radgan misi msxverpli

SeiZleba erTic gaxdes da _

meorec an am omSi CarTuli erTic

iyos da _ meorec. amitom hibridul

oms yvela saxelmwifo struqtura

ise unda daupirispirdes,

rogorc erTi mTliani. magaliTad,

ruseTTan hibridul omSi mxolod

Tavdacvis saministros, rogorc

masTan mebrZoli organizaciis Setoveba,

Secdoma iqneba da Sedegs

ver moitans. es e. w. me-4 Taobis

omia, romelic arsebiTad gansxvavdeba

iseTi standartuli omisgan,

rogoric warmogvidgenia.

hibriduli omis safuZvlebSi, Tanamedrove

samyaroSi, minimum, yvela

maRali Tanamdebobis piri unda

erkveodes. sxvaTa Soris, 2008 wlidan

dRemde, rusuli hibriduli

omis sacecebs Cven, jerjerobiT,

vumklavdebiT. vumklavdebiT imitom,

rom demokratiuli institutebi,

ase Tu ise, muSaobs. imisTvis

ki, rom rusulma hibridulma

omma Cvenze gavlena ver moaxdinos,

sasicocxlod mniSvnelovania

demokratiuli institutebis ganmtkiceba,

gansakuTrebiT _ damoukidebeli

sasamarTlo sistemis

Camoyalibeba.

_ rogor fiqrobT, im dros,

roca dasavleTsa da, maT Soris,

aSS-s sakuTari problemebi aqvT,

saprezidento arCevnebs vgulisxmob,

saerTaSoriso Tanamego-

brobam Cvendami yuradReba xom ar

moaduna?

_ piriqiT, dasavleTma da, gansakuTrebiT,

Cvenma strategiulma

mokavSire aSS-ma erTmniSvnelovnad

gausves xazi Cveni qveynis mimarT

ucvlel mxardaWerasa da

demokratiuli institutebis ganviTarebaSi

xelSewyobas.

_ 31 oqtombrisgan ras elo-

debiT?

_ velodebi arsebuli xelisuflebis

mSvidobian cvlilebasa da

prodasavluri Zalebis didi upiratesobiT

gamarjvebas.

_ bolos, badri, ra gaqvT

saTqmeli moqmed samxedroebsa da

veteranebTan, miT umetes, rom

veteranTa samsaxuris ufrosad am

dReebSi koba kobalaZe dainiSna?

_ me, rogorc Tadarigis oficers

vice-polkovniks, romelmac 23

welze meti Tavdacvis Zalebis SemadgenlobaSi

vimsaxure, araerTi

samxedro wignisa da doqtrinis

avtorsa da Tanaavtors (yvelaferi

es dRemde gamoiyeneba Cveni

Tavdacvis Zalebis qvedanayofebis

sabrZolvelad mosamzadeblad),

minda, maT vuTxra, rom kargad mesmis

da vici TiToeuli maTganis

wuxili da problema.

dRes me warmovadgen „strategia

aRmaSeneblis” gunds da minda,

isini davarwmuno, rom Cven yvelafers

gavakeTebT im samwuxaro

realobis Sesacvlelad, raSic

Cvens gulad jariskacebsa da gmir

veteranebs uwevT yofna!

isini arian adamianebi, romel-

Ta mxrebzec dgas Cveni qveyana da

isini imsaxureben Rirseul pirobebs,

saTanado dafasebasa da pativiscemas.

yvelafers Tavi rom davaneboT,

qveynis sircxvilia, omis

veterans pensia TveSi 22 lari hqondeT.

Cven gvaqvs gegma, romelzedac

2 wlis ganmavlobaSi vmuSaobdiT

da igi iTvaliswinebs yvela

arsebuli problemis mogvarebas

yvela mimarTulebiT _ samsaxurebrivi,

socialuri, materialurteqnikuri,

struqturul-organizaciuli

da a. S. TiToeuli maTgani

Cveni qveynisTvis didi ganZia,

romelsac mofrTxileba sWirdeba!

31


`viTarebas realurad vafaseb

31 oqtomberi axlovdeba da

giorgi abaSiZe

yvela politikuri Zala sakuTar

gamarjvebaSia darwmunebuli, anu

opoziciis TiTqmis yvela frTa irwmuneba, rom or kviraSi

qveynis politikuri realoba Seicvleba. „ocneba” ki acxadebs,

rom misi damarcxeba SeuZlebelia. amasobaSi, „qristian-

demokratiuli moZraobis” lideri, goCa jojua, „qronika+”-

sTan skandalur gancxadebas akeTebs, anu Cveni respondenti,

romlis politikurma partiamac wlevandel arCevnebze bloki

„tribunasTan” Sekra, ambobs, rom damZimebuli epidviTarebis

gamo SesaZloa, arCevnebi, minimum, 60 dRiT gadaidos. metic,

jojuas ganmartebiT, arCevnebis SesaZlo gadadebaze politikur

kuluarebSi TiTqmis yvela saubrobs, magram amis xmama-

Rla Tqmas am etapze eridebian.

realuria Tu ara arCevnebis

gadadeba da ratom iqneba

saqarTvelosTvis kargi, rom aSS-

is prezidenti isev donald

trampi gaxdes? _ Cveni gamocema

gTavazobT skandalur inter-

vius goCa jojuasTan:

_ batono goCa, arCevnebamde

sami kvirac aRar rCeba. 31 oq-

tombrisgan ras elodebiT?

_ am kiTxvaze calsaxa pasuxis

gacema Znelia.

_ ratom?

_ mkiTxaobas ar daviwyeb, magram

ramdenime versia arsebobs,

maT Soris, isic, rom pandemiidan

gamomdinare, arCevnebi SesaZloa,

gadaidos! Tu ase moxda, amas er-

TaderTi gamarTleba eqneba _ aSS-

Si saprezidento arCevnebs davelodoT

da imis mixedviT vimoqmedoT,

Cven garSemo procesebi

rogor ganviTardeba. saerTod,

aSS-is arCevnebs mTeli msoflio

uyurebs da mis Sedegebze bevri

ramea damokidebuli... ise, „ocneba”

fiqrobs, rom arCevnebze 40

procents ascdeba da mTavrobas

Camoayalibebs. Tu ase moxda, mar-

Talia, saamiso winapiroba jer ar

Cans, magram qveyanaSi Zalian rTuli

procesebi daiwyeba _ yvelafer

amas qarTveli xalxi ar Seegueba!

_ vidre am Temas ganvavrcobT,

CagekiTxebiT da damikonkreteT,

Tqveni prognoziT, arCevnebi

ramdeni xniT SeiZleba, gadai-

dos?

_ arCevnebis gadadebis 60-dRiani

vada arsebobs, rasac ver

gaveqceviT. rogorc giTxariT,

arCevnebis gadadebis sababi Sesa-

Zloa, pandemia gaxdes, Tumca

opozicia da xelisuflebac xvdeba,

rom es mxolod da mxolod

imis gamo SeiZleba moxdes, rogor

ganviTardeba movlenebi aSS-Si.

_ batono goCa, simarTle

giTxraT, ver vxvdebi, arCevneb-

is gadadebas ratom prognozirebT,

miT umetes, amaze xelisu-

flebac ar mianiSnebs. piriqiT,

premier gaxarias TqmiT, drama-

tuli epidviTarebis miuxedavad,

politikur process, anu arCevn-

ebs, xeli ar unda SeeSalos...

_ amas gaxaria ki ara, erTi adamiani

wyvets! sxvaTa Soris, albaT,

gaxsovT, erTi kviriT adre

„ocneba” ambobda, opoziciasTan

molaparakebis magidasTan ar davjdebio,

magram erTi kviris mere

dajda da arCevnebis 120/30-ze

Catarebis gadawyvetileba miiRo.

mokled, yvelaferi imazea damokidebuli,

biZina ivaniSvili rogor

gadawyvetilebas miiRebs. amitom

saerTod arafers niSnavs,

gaxaria ras ambobs an arCevnebis

gadasadebad niSnebi arsebobs Tu

ara. aq erTi ramea mTavari: qveynis

realuri mmarTveli rogor

daTvlis, anu misTvis ra sjobs _

aSS-Si Catarebul arCevnebs qveyanaSi

areuli situaciiT Sexvdes.

_ „areul situaciaSi” ras

gulisxmobT?

_ rogorc ki „ocneba” arCevnebSi

40 procentze mets daiwers,

es imas niSnavs, rom xalxi quCaSi

gamova.

_ xalxi quCaSi SesaZloa,

arCevnebis gadadebis SemTxveva-

Sic gamovides.

_ ara, am SemTxvevaSi, xalxi

quCaSi ar gamova.

_ ratom?

_ arCevnebi, rogorc giTxariT,

SesaZloa, pandemiis gamo gadaidos

da am SemTxvevaSi yvelaferi

ukve opoziciaze iqneba damokidebuli.

_ anu?

_ darwmunebuli ar var, rom

yvela politikuri partia fiqrobdes,

arCevnebis Catareba axla

sjobso. mTavaria politikuri

simwife, anu, erTi SexedviT, namdvilad

jobia, rom arCevnebi 31

oqtombers Catardes, radgan koaliciur

mTavrobas miviRebT da

im rTul politikur movlenebs,

romelic gvelodeba, apolitikuri

figuris CamoSorebiT

SevxvdebiT, magram, meore mxriv,

zamTarSi ekonomika, praqtikulad,

mTlianad CamoiSleba, finansuri

seqtori absolutur krizisSi

iqneba da aseT pirobebSi nebismier

politikur Zalas, romelsac

10-15-procentiani mxardaWera

aqvs, koaliciuri mTavrobis

damxoba SeeZleba. mokled, ar

mgonia, axla mTeli politikuri

speqtri erTad dadges da Tqvas,

arCevnebi 31 oqtombers aucileblad

unda Catardeso.

_ e. i., bolo dros gazrdili

koronastatistika arCevnebis

gadasadebad ganwyobebis Seqmnas

emsaxureba?

_ diax, Tan es mxolod Cvenze

araa damokidebuli.

_ aba, kidev viszea damokide-

buli?

_ Cans, rom evropaSi situacia

saamisod mwifdeba _ magaliTad,

CexeTsa da sxvagan isev mkacr zomebs

iReben. amas garda, ukve cnobilia,

rom Cveni sazRvrebi mTlianad

Caiketeba. Sesabamisad, yvelaferi

es SesaZloa, arCevnebis

gadasadebad kargad gamoiyenon.

_ gasagebia, rom evropis zo-

gierTi qveyana, epidemiis gamo,

zomebs isev amkacrebs, magram,

batono goCa, Cemze kargad iciT,

rom saqarTvelo yvelaferSi aSS-

s baZavs, okeanis gaRma ki mkacr

lokdauns aRar gegmaven.

_ diax, magram aqac ori momentia.

_ kerZod?

_ geTanxmebiT, rom amerikelebs

saqarTveloSi arCevnebis

axla Catareba SesaZloa, awyobdeT,

magram maTac Sedegze aqvT

gaTvla. mokled, sruliad gulwrfelad

vambob: gaurkvevel

TamaSSi Sesvlas, jobia, aSS-Si

yvelaferi gairkves.

_ aSS-Si, mainc, ris garkvevas

elodebiT?

_ daaxloebiT SegviZlia imis

prognozireba, aSS-is saprezidento

arCevnebSi trampis an baidenis

gamarjvebas mTel msoflioSi

ra SeiZleba mohyves.

_ erTi sityviT, goCa batono,

Tqveni saubridan gamomdinare,

SeiZleba, davaskvna, rom Tu saqme

saqmeze midgeba, daviT WiWinaZisa

da

„qristian-demokratebis”

saarCevno bloki arCevnebis

gadadebas mxars dauWers?

_ yovel SemTxvevaSi, ar mgonia,

Tavi gamovidoT, ginda Tu

ara, arCevnebi axlave unda

Catardeso. sxvaTa Soris, Semi-

Zlia, nebismier oponents davujde

da davusabuTo, arCevnebis

gadadeba ratomac jobia.

_ warmoidgineT, rom Tqveni

oponenti var. hoda, aba, damisabuTeT,

arCevnebis gadadeba uke-

Tesi ratomaa?

_ Cven brmad mivdivarT.

_ ras gulisxmobT?

_ araerTxel yofila, roca

magaliTad, aSS-is saprezidento

arCevnebSi im kandidats vuWerdiT

mxars, romlis wagebasac

agvistos omi da Cveni qveynis

teritoriebis dakargva mohyva.

aseTi mware Secdomebis magaliTi

istoriulad bevri gvaqvs, Tumca

adre pasuxismgebloba gacilebiT

meti iyo. ai, magaliTad, demetre

Tavdadebulma yvelaferi sworad

daalaga, magram is adamiani,

romelsac mxars uWerda, gadatrialebisas

damarcxda.

_ mgonia, ukeTesi iqneba, dem-

àrCevnebis gadadebis 60-dRiani vada arsebobs,

rasac ver gaveqceviT. rogorc giTxariT,

arCevnebis gadadebis sababi SesaZloa, pandemia

gaxdes, Tumca opozicia da xelisuflebac xvdeba,

rom es mxolod da mxolod imis gamo SeiZleba

moxdes, rogor ganviTardeba movlenebi aSS-Si~

goCa jojua:

`rogorc ki

òcneba~ arCevnebSi

40 procentze mets

daiwers, es imas

niSnavs, rom xalxi

quCaSi gamova~

etre Tavdadebuls Tavi gavaneboT

da dRevandelobaze vi-

saubroT...

_ ki batono. aviRoT igive

agvistos omi, romelic Secdoma,

anu makkeinze gakeTebuli aqcenti

iyo da seriozulad wavageT.

gasagebia, rom Tavs vimSvidebT,

ruseTTan pirveli omi Cven

gvqonda da msoflios misi namdvili

saxe davanaxeTo, magram

msoflios iseTi ra davanaxeT,

rac agvistos omamde ar icoda?!

msofliom Zalian bevri ram Cvenze

kargad icoda da icis! erTi

sityviT, roca davsxdebiT da am

Temebze saubars daviwyebT,

vfiqrob, Zalian bevri politikuri

partniori dagveTanxmeba.

_ medals, rogorc wesi, ori

mxare aqvs. Sesabamisad, „ocneba”

arCevnebis gadadebiT ras moigebs,

miT umetes, umZimesi zam-

Tari gvelodeba da mmarTveli

gundis reitingi kidev ufro

daecema...

_ diax, arCevnebis gadadebis

SemTxvevaSi „ocnebis” reitingi

nuli gaxdeba, magram erT rames

moigebs.

_ konkretulad, ras?

_ dRevandeli xelisufleba

did fuls Soulobs da arCevnebis

gadadebis SemTxvevaSi, minimum,

ori Tve am fulis Sovnas gaagr-

Zelebs. saerTod, „ocnebam” fulis

Sovnis meti araferi icis.

_ „ocnebis” fulis Sovnis sqe-

ma rogoria?

_ qonebebs iformeben, anu

raionebSi sakrebulos aragegmuri

sxdomebi zogjer imitom

imarTeba, rom qonebebi gadaformdes.

Tu arCevnebi axla Catardeba,

„ocnebam” SeiZleba, 40 procenti

aiRos da, rogorRac, vada

gaigrZelos, magram zamTarSi

aucilebald damTavrdeba!

_ maSasadame, Tu axla gada-

ido, arCevnebi naaxalwlevs

Catardeba?

_ diax, 60-dRiani vada swored

naaxalwlevs gadis. ise, Tu gaxsovT,

Tavis droze, saprezidento

arCevnebi swored axali wlis

dReebSi CavatareT.

_ diax, es, Tu ar meSleba, 2004

32

32 N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.


da amas xmamaRla vambob!~

wels iyo, roca saakaSvili prezidentad

pirveli vadiT avirCi-

eT...

_ xelisufleba fiqrobs, rom

axla Sansi aqvs, magram arCevnebi

zamTarSi an gazafxulze rom

Catardes, Sansi aRar eqneba, Tumca

imasac mniSvneloba aqvs, am

Sanss vin rogor dainaxavs.

_ anu?

_ SeiZleba, politikurma Zalam

arCevnebi waagos, magram politikaSi

darCes. saerTod, politikuri

cxovrebis gagrZeleba

imis yvelaze kargi berketia, rom

sakuTari Sexedulebebi daicva.

sxvaTa Soris, yvelaferi es „nacionalur

moZraobasTan” dakav-

SirebiT ukve vnaxeT.

_ maSasadame, Tu arCevnebi

axla Catardeba, „ocnebam” Sei-

Zleba, waagos, magram Sansi eqne-

ba, rom politikaSi darCes. amas

ambobT, batono goCa, ara?

_ diax...

_ ise, pirveli politikosi

xarT, romelic arCevnebis SesaZlo

gadadebaze Riad alaparak-

da...

_ politikuri speqtri imas

fiqrobs, razedac Cven vsaubrobT,

anu „ocnebas” Sansi aqvs da

amitomac arCevnebs ar gadadebs.

amasTan, politikosebi fiqroben,

arCevnebis gadadebaze saubari

rom daiwyon, amas amomrCeveli

sworad gaigebs Tu ara, magram

roca arCevnebis SesaZlo gadadebaze

saubrob da amas argumentebiT

asabuTeb, vfiqrob, mosaxleoba

yvelafers Zalian kargad

gaigebs. sxvaTa Soris, saarCevno

fulis Zalian didi nawili gaxarjulia

da arCevnebis gadadebiT

„ocneba” SesaZloa, ukeTes situaciaSic

aRmoCndes, radgan opoziciasTan

SedarebiT mas ulevi

resursi aqvs. arCevnebis gadadebiT

opozicia finansebs ki dakargavs,

magram sxva rames moigebs.

_ ras?

_ saaxawlod xelisuflebis

reitingi, praqtikulad, ganuldeba.

Sesabamisad, imis Sansic aRar

eqneba, rom 40 procenti mainc

aiRos.

_ am argumentidan gamomdinare,

fiqrobT, rom arCevneb-

is gadadeba yvelaze metad

opozicias unda awyobdes?

_ diax.

_ qarTuli opozicia Wreli

da mravalferovania, amitom

jobia, daakonkretoT, arCevneb-

is gadadeba patara opoziciur

partiebs awyobs Tu, vTqvaT, „na-

cionalur moZraobas”?

_ nebismiers, anu arCevnebis

gadadebas yvela saTavisod

Zalian kargad gamoiyenebs, radgan

yoveli dRe „ocnebis” reitings

angrevs.

_ am logikiT, arCevnebi SegviZlia,

aTi wlis Semdeg CavataroT

da „ocnebas” reitingi saer-

Tod aRar eqneba!

_ RmerTma nu qnas, pirdapir

diqtatura damyardes! sxvaTa

Soris, aseTi qveynebi arseboben,

magram viTareba iqac feTqebadia.

erTi sityviT, saubari gonier

drozea, anu arCevnebi SeiZleba,

`trampis politika aSS-is ekonomikur maCveneblebzea gaTvlili, anu trampi

igive saarCevno kampanias swored amaze agebs. saerTod, politikas ekonimika

gansazRvravs. Sesabamisad, aSS-is saprezidento arCevnebSi trampis xelmeored

gamarjveba msoflioSi aqamde arsebul ekonomikur politikas mTlianad

Secvlis, anu es sagareo politikazec iqoniebs gavlenas da, Sesabamisad,

saqarTvelosac didi Sansi aqvs, rom axal models moergos da iseTi

movlenebi, rac axla yarabaRSi mimdinareobs, naklebad ganviTardes~

ori Tvis mere, zamTarSi Catardes,

roca „ocneba” urTules

viTarebaSi iqneba, magram Tu

arCevnebi, raRac pirobebis gamo,

gazafxulamdec gadaido, maSin

„ocneba” saerTod damTavrdeba.

saerTod, Tu xelisuflebam

ver gaiTavisa, rom arCevnebi unda

waagos, quCaSi gamosvla yvela

SemTxvevaSi mogviwevs!

_ batono goCa, ratom ambobT,

rom „ocnebam” arCevnebi maincd-

amainc unda waagos?

_ roca sasamarTloa, finansebi

da Zalovani struqturebi misia,

raze vsaubrobT? amitomac

vambob, rom „ocnebam” yvelaferi

es ar unda gamoiyenos da arCevnebi

waagos.

_ is, rom „ocnebas” mTeli sax-

elmwifo manqana uzurpirebuli

aqvs, yvelam viciT, magram Sesa-

Zloa, vinmem Tqvas, goCa jojuas

arCevnebis gadadeba imitom unda,

rom daviT WiWinaZis „tribunasa”

da qdm-s blokis reitingi so-

ciologiuri kvlevebiT arc ki

izomebao...

_ am sociologiur kvlevebs

arafrad miviCnev!

_ ratom?

_ did organizaciebze rom

aRaraferi vTqvaT, „toCni zurabas”

sociologiuri kvlevebic

gvaxsovs, roca cdomileba TiTqmis

20% iyo.

_ ukacravad, „toCni zuraba”

ra SuaSia?

_ imis Tqma minda, rom aseTi

cdomilebebiT bevri ram lagdeba.

_ saxeldobr?

_ „tribuna”-qdm mxolod politikur

velze ki araa gamosuli,

aramed orive mxaris konkurentia.

_ „orive mxareSi” „ocnebasa”

da „nacionalur moZraobas”

gulisxmobT?

_ diax.

_ batono goCa, gulwrfeli

xarT, roca ambobT, „tribuna”-

`dRevandeli xelisufleba did fuls Soulobs

da arCevnebis gadadebis SemTxvevaSi, minimum,

ori Tve am fulis Sovnas gaagrZelebs. saerTod,

òcnebam~ fulis Sovnis meti araferi icis~

qdm „ocnebisa” da „nacmoZraobis”

konkurentiao?

_ ra Tqma unda. Cvens SesaZleblobebs

radarze vzomav da gada-

Warbebulad arafers vambob, anu

2-dan 3-procentamde Cveni SemCneva

ukve SesaZlebelia. amasTan,

garkveuli dro kidev gvaqvs.

_ risTvis?

_ ai, magaliTad, bevrma arc ki

icis, rom lia muxaSavria arCevnebSi

Cveni saxeliT monawileobs.

Sesabamisad, Tu arCevnebamde kvleva

kidev Catardeba, maSin iZulebuli

gaxdebian, rom SedegebSi

„tribuna”-qdm-c Caweron.

_ batono goCa, ambobT, rom

mosaxleoba xelisuflebis Secvlas

elodeba. am fonze arCevneb-

is gadadebas xalxSi ra reaqcia

mohyveba?

_ gasagebia, rom xelisufleba

unda Seicvalos, magram ver getyviT,

rom amis molodini xalxs

maincdamainc 31 oqtombers aqvs,

anu im SemTxvevaSi, Tu arCevnebi

gadaideba, mosaxleoba did zians

ver miiRebs, Tan Cveni politikuri

argumentaciac unda gaiziaros.

bolos da bolos, xalxi

Zalian kargad xedavs, rom Cvengan

xuTas kilometrSi adamianebi

iRupebian.

_ somxeT-azerbaijanis ganax-

lebul konfliqts gulisxmobT?

_ diax. bolos da bolos, Cven-

Tan upilito aparatebic Camovarda,

anu Cveni sahaero sivrce ir-

Rveva, e. i., safrTxe arsebobs. Tu

imasac gaviTvaliswinebT, rom

saqarTveloSi eTnikurad somxebi

da azerbaijanelebic cxovroben,

mivxvdebiT, rom arCevnebis

Catareba urTules pirobebSi gviwevs.

mokled, mgoni, mosaxleobac

xvdeba, rom aseT rTul vi-

TarebaSi arCevnebis gadadeba SesaZloa,

yvelaze kargi varianti

da gamosavali iyos.

_ ver getyviT, mosaxleoba ase

CaTvlis Tu ara, magram piradad

me mgonia, rom raRac axal poli-

tikur TamaSs iwyebT. vcdebi?

_ politikur TamaSs ki ar viw-

yeb, viTarebas realurad vafaseb.

sxvaTa Soris, am situacias

yvela xedavs, magram xmamaRla

aravin laparakobs. me ki Cems Tavs

amis xmamaRla Tqmis ufleba miveci!

_ batono goCa, kargad iciT,

rom politikur kuluarebTn

garkveuli Sexeba maqvs. hoda,

simarTle rom giTxraT, arCevn-

ebis SesaZlo gadadebaze kulisebSic

ar msmenia. Tqven ki meubnebiT,

yvela am Temaze lapara-

kobso...

_ am Temaze „qocisa” da „nacis”

garda yvela saubrobs.

_ mainc, vin yvela, magaliTad,

jondi baRaTuria?

_ jondi baRaTuria ra SuaSia?

_ ubralod, gamaxsenda...

_ ase, SeiZleba, Zalian bevri

sxvac gaixsenoT... arCevnebis Sesa-

Zlo gadadebaze vinmesTvis kiTxva

dagisvamT?

_ diax, damisvams da yvelas

upasuxia, _ ra arCevnebis gada-

deba, 31 oqtomberi dedlainia,

roca yvelaferi unda dasrul-

deso...

_ ubralod, piarulad da ise

gpasuxoben, rogorc Jurnalists.

CemTan saubrisas ki am azrs bevri

iziarebs, Tumca iqve dasZens,

xelisufleba amas ar gaakeTebs,

radgan arCevnebis gadadebis Sem-

TxvevaSi saerTod damTavrdeba,

axla ki raRac Sansi aqvso, anu

axla „ocnebis” gamarjveba is iqneba,

rom 40-procentian Camketamde

rogorme mivides...

_ ra amis pasuxia da aSS-Si

saprezidento arCevnebSi tramp-

ma rom gaimarjvos, es CvenTvis

kargi iqneba Tu cudi?

_ trampis politika aSS-is ekonomikur

maCveneblebzea gaTvlili,

anu trampi igive saarCevno

kampanias swored amaze agebs. saerTod,

politikas ekonimika gansazRvravs.

Sesabamisad, aSS-is

saprezidento arCevnebSi trampis

xelmeored gamarjveba msoflioSi

aqamde arsebul ekonomikur

politikas mTlianad Secvlis,

anu es sagareo politikazec

iqoniebs gavlenas da, Sesabamisad,

saqarTvelosac didi Sansi aqvs,

rom axal models moergos da

iseTi movlenebi, rac axla yarabaRSi

mimdinareobs, naklebad ganviTardes.

_ Tu aSS-is prezidenti baid-

eni gaxdeba, maSin ras elodebiT?

_ mikroomebi yvelgan iqneba,

rasac SeiZleba, patar-patara

Sida revoluciebic moyves...

_ „tribuna”-qdm-s trampis

gamarjveba unda?

_ aq sauabri Cvens ndomaze

araa.

_ aba, razea?

_ aucileblobaze, anu sirTuleebi

trampis gamarjvebis SemTxvevaSic

iqneba, magram ara iseTi,

rogoric, vTqvaT, axla yarabaR-

Sia. mokled, trampis gamarjvebis

SemTxvevaSi saxelmwifo sakuTar

Tavze Zalian bevr rames aiRebs.

sxvaTa Soris, Cveni ar iyos, bankebs

SemTxveviT arc trampi exeba.

es Zalian didi xnis win dawyebuli

brZolaa...

N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.

33

ra aZlevs politikaSi yofnis

motivacias? ras hpirdeba amomrCevlebs

da rogori molodine-

bi aqvs rusTavis maJoritars? _

aRniSnuli Temebis Sesaxeb „qronika+”

rubrika „axalgazrda politikosebSi”

mixeil qumsiSvils es-

aubreba:

_ mixeil, 10 weliwadze metia,

politikaSi xarT. ra gaZlevT

politikaSi yofnis motivacias?

_ saqmianobis sibinZure ganisazRvreba

im adamianebiT, romlebic

am saqmianobis monawileebi

arian. Sesabamisad, ar arsebobs

sfero, es iqneba politika, sporti

Tu xelovneba, sadac ki iqnebian

binZuri adamianebi, arcTu

maincdamainc sufTa warsulis

mqone xalxi da arcTu maincdamainc

keTili ganzraxvis adamianebi,

bunebrivia, yvela sferoSi

iqneba sibinZure. politika aris

sajaro sfero, gansakuTrebiT

didia mis mimarT mediis yuradReba,

amitom igi ufro metad gam-

Wvirvalea da, Sesabamisad, amotivtivdeba

xolme sibinZure da xalxisTvis

es metad SesamCnevia. politikaSi

saWiroa swori xalxi, axali

saxeebi da axali sisxli; adamianebi,

romlebsac warsulSi ar

aqvT boroteba Cadenili da romlebsac

gulwrfelad surT, rom

es qveyana win wavides. am proces-

Si, bunebrivia, gadamwyveti iqneba

axalgazrdebis CarTuloba. vinaidan

axalgazrda Taoba, romelic

dabadebulia Tavisufal, damoukidebel

saqarTveloSi, romelmac

icis erovnuli faseulobebi

da romelsac ar eSinia siaxleebisa

da globalizaciis, SeZlebs

imas, rom qveyana ganviTarebis

swor gzaze daayenos. swored es

aris Cemi motivacia, rom politikaSi

CavrTuliyavi. rodesac davinaxe,

rom axali saxeebis saWiroebaa,

im dRidan moyolebuli yvelafers

vakeTeb, rac SeiZleba meti

axalgazrda CavrTo politika-

Si da Semdeg ukve Sevqmna mZlavri

gundi, romelsac Tavisi wona eqneba

da sakuTar saTqmels ityvis. es

nawilobriv gamomivida kidec.

Zalian vamayob Cveni partiis axalgazrduli

organizaciiT, romelic

bevr aqtiur saxes moicavs.

mudmivad orientirebulebi varT,

rom, erTi mxriv, qveynisTvis saqme

gavakeToT da, meore mxriv, ganvviTardeT

am procesSi, viswavloT

da ufro efeqtianad CaverToT

qveynis aRmSeneblobis saqmeSi.

partiam es yvelaferi daafasa kidec

da me rusTavis maJoritarobis

kandidati var, agreTve partiis

saarCevno siis mesame nomeri

gaxlavarT. am SemTxvevaSi ara individualurad

var es figura,

aramed partiis axalgazrdul

gunds warmovadgen, romelmac unda

gaaJReros axalgazrdebis xedva

da xma sakanonmdeblo organo-

Si.

_ ratom xarT rusTavis ma-

Joritarobis kandidati?

_ amas ramdenime mizezi aqvs:

Cemi aqtivobebiT rusTavTan vasocirdebi.

gasul wels aqtiurad

vaprotestebdi mgzavrobis tarifis

TviTneburad gazrdas, roca

kerZo kompaniam tarifs moumata

da rusTavis sakrebulo xelis

34

nene injgia

591 71 39 98

10 welze metia, politikur

procesebSia CarTuli. politikaSi mosvlis dRidan leiboris-

tuli partiis wevria. amasobaSi, 6 arCevnebis staJis mqonea da

am kuTxiT gamocdilebac aqvs. Tamamad SeiZleba iTqvas, rom

politikuri partiebidan yvelaze aqtiuri axalgazrduli

moZraobis Tavmjdomarea. rogorc TviTon ambobs, 2020 wlis

saparlamento arCevnebze didi pasuxismgebloba daekisra.

konkretulad ki leiboristuli partiidan rusTavis maJori-

tarul olqSia wardgenili da aseve saarCevno siis mesame

nomeria. axalgazrda politikosis TqmiT, uniaTo Zalas axal-

gazrduli, energiiT savse gundiT upirispirdeba.


SeSlis nacvlad daexmara amaSi.

Cven gvaqvs safuZvliani eWvi, rom

sakrebulo Tavadac aris CarTuli

sxvadasxva korufciul sqema-

Si. am yvelafers SevewinaaRmdegeT,

ramac Sedegi gamoiRo da procesi

SeCerda. garda amisa, aqtiurad

var CarTuli lokaluri problemebis

mogvarebaSi da vcdilob,

maqsimalurad davudge mosaxleobas

gverdiT. garda amisa, rusTavSi

myavs Zalian bevri megobari,

axlobeli. isini Cemi gundis

wevrebi arian da erTad vibrZviT

problemebis aRmosafxvrelad.

rusTavSi bevri sirTulea, igi

TbilisTan axlosaa da kulturulad

masTan integrirebulia, magram,

meore mxriv, socialurekonomikurad

absoluturad mowyvetilia

dedaqalaqs. rusTavi

aris evropis yvelaze dabinZurebuli

haeris mqone qalaqi, rac

Zalian maRal riskebs Seicavs imisas,

rom mosaxleobas ganuvi-

Tardes sxvadasxva onkologiuri

daavadeba. aq aseve aris transportis

problema: 20 000-mde students

yoveldRiurad uwevs TbilisSi

siaruli da normalurad

ver gadaadgildeba; ar arsebobs

axalgazrdebisTvis gasarTobi

adgilebi, ar aris kinoTeatri, kafe-barebi.

bevri iseTi problemaa,

rasac axalgazrda, energiuli

adamianis brZola sWirdeba, raTa

es problemebi umaRless eSelonebamde

miitanos da rusTavelebis

interesebi daicvas. aqedan gamomdinare,

partiaSi gadawyda, rom

me vyofiliyavi rusTavSi maJoritarobis

kandidati. rusTavSi Cveni

partia yovelTvis gamoirCeoda

mxardaWeriT. aq cxovroben adamianebi,

romlebic aTwleulebis

manZilze Cveni partiis erTguli

momxreebi arian. maTTan erTad

Sevecdebi, kidev ufro meti xalxi

davarwmuno Cveni partiis xedvebis

sisworeSi.

_ ra aris mTavari gzavnili

rusTaveli amomrCevlebis misa-

marTiT da ra upiratesoba gaqvT

sxva kandidatebTan SedarebiT?

_ Cveni slogania: „momavali Senia”.

TiToeuli adamianis xelSia

momavali da maT Tavad unda gankargon

sakuTari momavali da Tavadve

dagegmon igi. momavali ar

iarsebebs im SemTxvevaSi, Tuki

erTsa da imave saxeebs, romlebic

ukve aTwleulebia politikaSi

arian, kvlav mivcemT saSualebas,

isev isini moasxdnen rusTavs, sakuTari

politikuri ambiciebi xelaxla

daikmayofilon da araferi

gaakeTon xalxisTvis. Cven siaxleebi

gvWirdeba naTeli momavlisTvis.

swored es aris Cveni

gzavnili, rom axalgazrdebi axali

ZaliT, axali xedvebiT, rus-

TavSi gardamtex reformebs gavatarebT,

Tu, ra Tqma unda, amis

SesaZlebloba mogvecema.

_ rogor mimdinareobs saar-

Cevno kampania? Tu aris xelis

SemSleli faqtorebi mmarTveli

gundis mxridan?

_ samwuxarod, aqtiurad aSin_-

eben xalxs, gansakuTrebiT sajaro

seqtorSi dasaqmebulebsa da

socialurad daucvelebs. faqtobrivad,

maT aiZuleben, rom „qarTuli

ocnebis” sasikeTod gaakeTon

mixeil qumsiSvili:

àxali xedvebiT

rusTavSi gardamtex

reformebs

gavatarebT!~

arCevani, rac pirdapir amomrCevlis

nebaze zewolaa da arCevnebis

gayalbebis erT-erT kriteriums

warmoadgens. aris mosyidvis

faqtebic: maqvs informacia, rom

„qarTuli ocneba” Tavis mxardam-

Werebs winasaarCevnod sasursaTo

kalaTebs urigebs, imisTvis, rom

namdvilad maT dauWiron mxari. es

kanoniT akrZalulia da sisxlis

samarTlis danaSaulia. sxva partiebis

momxreebs ki, bunebrivia,

arafers aZleven. rogorc Cans, xelisufleba

ver iazrebs, rom igi

Tanabrad aris angariSvaldebuli

TiToeul moqalaqeze. aseTi samarcxvino

xelisuflebaa da samarcxvino

meTodebiT cdilobs

arCevnebSi mxardaWeris mopovebas,

Tumca wlebis ganmavlobaSi es

erTi da igive meTodebi moZvelda.

xalxma maT unda gamoarTvas

sasursaTo kalaTa, magram arCevani

gaakeTos maT sawinaaRmdegod,

vinaidan aseTi meTodebiT cdiloben

amomrCevlis mosyidvas.

_ ras upirispirebT xelisu-

flebis am meTodebs?

_ am yvelafers vupirispirebT

enTuziazms, idealistobasa da

ideebis erTgulebas. garda amisa,

mosaxleobasTan kardakar davdivarT.

ukve yvela karze davakakuneT,

zogan me, zogan Cveni gundis

wevrebma da piradad gavesaubreT

rusTavis yvela moqalaqes. maT gadaveciT

Cveni flaerebi, gavacaniT

programa, aqtiuri kampania gvaqvs

socialur mediaSi, rusTavis

mosaxleobas am formiTac vawvdiT

Cven Sesaxeb informacias,

rasac naklebi xarji da didi energia

sWirdeba. am sakiTxebSi aqtiurad

varT CarTuli da fuls

amiT vupirispirdebiT _ „qarTul

ocnebas” rusTavSi 10-mde ofisi

aqvs da sadme Tu bilbordia, yvelgan

maTi kandidatis saxea gamoxatuli,

magram mxolod bilbordis

gakvra ver uSvelis maT. Tu

arada, daamtkicon saqmiT, rom

isini arian Rirseuli kandidatebi.

am xnis ganmavlobaSi maT erTi

saqmec ki ar gaukeTebiaT, riTac

SeuZliaT, rom daikvexnon. umaqniss,

uniaTo Zalas vupirispirdebiT

axalgazrduli, energiiT savse

gundi. danarCeni mosaxleobis

gadawyvetilebazea damokidebuli.

_ Tqveni partiis saarCevno

programaSi ra kuTxiT aris axalgazrdebis

problemebi gaTval-

iswinebuli?

_ pirvel rigSi, es aris ganaTleba.

swavla studentebisTvis

ufaso unda iyos, igi saxelmwifo

biujetidan unda finansdebodes,

rac aRmofxvris statusSeCerebuli

studentebis problemas. maTma

raodenobam 40 aTass gadaaWarba.

am pandemiisa da ekonomikuri

krizisis fonze kidev ufro mZafrdeba

es problema. Sesabamisad,

Cveni erT-erTi mTavari prioriteti

iqneba is, rom yvelas hqondes

xelmisawvdomoba xarisxian ganaTlebaze;

aseve vgegmavT, rom

skolebSi moswavleebis erTjeradi

kveba saxelmwifo biujetidan

dafinansdes, rasac mxolod 200

milioni lari sWirdeba da igi saqarTvelos

biujetis 1.8%-s Seadgens.

es savsebiT realisturia, _

erTi mxriv, moagvarebs im problemas,

rasac bavSvebis SimSili

hqvia da gaeros oficialuri

statistikis Tanaxmad, yovelwliurad,

77 aTasi bavSvi SimSilobs,

xolo, meore mxriv, mogvcems ganaTlebis

sistemaSi siRrmiseuli

reformebis gatarebis saSualebas;

aseve axalgazrdebisTvis gvaqvs

SemuSavebuli specialuri programa,

romelic uzrunvelyofs 50

aTasi axali samuSao adgilis Seqmnas.

viTanamSromlebT rogorc

kerZo seqtorTan, aseve sajaro

uwyebebTan, raTa gamoiyos specialuri

kvotebi axali kursdamTavrebulebisTvis,

_ maT Sesabamisi

gamocdileba unda miiRon

da anazRaureba hqondeT. yvela

biznesi, romelic axalgazrdebs

daasaqmebs, sagadasaxado SeRavaTebs

miiRebs, rom uRirdes axali

kadrebis ayvana. es aris Ziri-

Tadi mimarTulebebi; aseve vgegmavT

mTeli qveynis internetizacias,

skolis moswavleebis kompiuterebiT

aRWurvasa da a. S.;

konkretulad rusTaveli axalgazrdebisTvisac

gvaqvs gawerili

gegma, romlis mixedviTac aucileblad

unda gaixsnas kinoTeatri.

sircxvilia, rom aseT did

qalaqSi dRemde ar aris kinoTeatri!

aseve maqsimalurad unda

Seewyos xeli rusTavSi Ramis cxovrebis

ganviTarebas.

_ Tqven aRniSneT, rom amom-

rCevelTan kardakar dadixarT.

rogoria mosaxleobis ganwyoba?

rogor gxvdebian axalgazrda

politikoss?

_ sakmaod pozitiuri ganwyoba

aqvs amomrCevels. es rogor aisaxeba

saarCevno xmebSi, bunebrivia,

ar viciT, magram yvelafers gavakeTeb,

rom dadebiTi ganwyoba gadmovides

mxardaWeraSi. adamianebs

sWirdebaT rwmena da momavlis

imedi, isini ukve daRlilebi arian

amdeni tyuiliTa da cru dapirebiT,

Sesabamisad, maTi ndobis

mopoveba sakmaod rTulia, Tumca

yvelafers gavakeTeb, rom es pozitiuri

ganwyoba mxardaWeraSi

aisaxos, raTa isev xalxis interesebi

gavaJReroT sakanonmdeblo

organoSi. vatarebT Sidapartiul

kvlevebs, romlis mixedviTac viciT,

rom sazogadoebis mxardaWera

gvaqvs. zust procentebs winaswar

marTla ver getyviT, yvelaze namdvili

kvleva arCevnebia. 31 oqtombers

gamovlindeba, ramdeni

adamiani uWers mxars oligarqiis

dasrulebas, axali saxeebis politikaSi

CarTvasa da patiosani xalxisTvis

mandatis micemas. pozitiuri

molodini maqvs, Tumca Zalian

brZolisunariani midgomaa

saWiro. darCenili sami kviris ganmavlobaSi

maqsimumi unda gakeTdes,

raTa xalxi darwmundes Cveni

partiis aucileblobaSi.

_ ra gaZlevT imis Tqmis

safuZvels, rom oligarqis

mmarTveloba dasruldeba?

_ imis nacvlad, rom qveyana vi-

Tardebodes, oligarqiuli sistema

am process aferxebs, ukan xevs

da, samwuxarod, Cndeba didi ufskruli

mdidarsa da Rarib fenas

Soris. mcire jgufebi mdidrdeba,

xalxis umravlesoba ki Raribdeba.

es maZlevs imis Tqmis safuZvels,

rom oligarqiuli sistema

dasruldeba. xalxi win iyureba,

Tuki es xalxi orientirebulia

momavalze, uari unda vTqvaT saarCevno

xmis sanacvlod dRes mocemul

5 kilogram kartofilsa

da 20 larze. Tuki swor politikur

Zalas moviyvanT xelisuflebaSi,

Sedegic Sesabamisi iqneba.

vfiqrob, mkiTxveli dainteresdeba

am interviuTi. darwmunebuli

var, rusTavSi bevri erTguli

mkiTxveli hyavs „qronika+~-s da

madloba am SesaZleblobisTvis,

rom Cemi azrebi gavacani rusTavelebsa

da ara mxolod maT.

34 N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.


dekanoz nikita TalakvaZis `moqalaqe-mRvdlis dRiuri~

gagrZeleba, dasawyisi

ix. „qronika+” ##35-41

(2019w.); ##2-9; #12,19

(2020w.)

„qronika+~ agrZelebs dekanoz

nikita TalakvaZis dRiuris gamoqveynebas.

SegaxsenebT, rom „literaturuli

muzeumis” mier wlebis

winaT gamocemuli wigni, „mo-

qalaqe mRdvlis dRiurebi”, rigi

garemoebebis gamo, faqtobrivad,

farTo mkiTxvelisTvis xelmiuwvdomelia.

masalaSi, romelsac qve-

moT warmogidgenT, ZiriTadad,

saubaria saeklesio intrigebsa da

kuluarebze. nikita TalakvaZis

SefasebebiT es kuluarebi da

faqtebi dRevandeli gadasaxe-

didanac ki sakmaod mZime gasaazr-

ebelia da uamrav „nacnob” Tu

ucnob movlenas, cnobil Tu sa-

zogadoebisTvis ucnob personas

saerTod sxva kuTxiT warmoaCens.

14 ivnisi

diliT kaTolikozis sanaxavad

wavedi; zogierTebs RamiTve enaxa;

cincaZe-ToTibaZes sixaruliT kinaRam

dambla dascemodaT, misi

ganTavisufleba ro gaegoT; SevikribeniT

sabWos SenobaSi me, SublaZe-fxalaZe,

sxvas aRar daucadeT,

wavediT sasaxleSi; Semogvier-

Tdnen gzaSi dekanozebi maWaraSvili,

asaTiani, mirianaSvili, maswavlebeli

sergi gorgaZe, k. kekeliZe.

migviRo kaTolikozma RimiliT,

Tav-momwoneT... saxeze TiTqos

ganmkrTali iyo, etyoboda, rom

didi sulieri tanjva gamoevlo.

mogviyva Tvisi Tav-gadasavali:

„kote cincaZem ro daminaxa Tviss

kabinetSi Sesuli, viRac deda-kacs

elaparakeboda da erT kacsa, xeliT

maniSna _ mand, skamze dabr-

Zandio! mec davjeqi. moicala Cem-

Tvisa da daiwyo Cvenebis CamorTmeva;

iyo TviTon da hyavda viRac

axalgazrda mdivnad, es swerda

Cems nalaparakevs. pirveli SekiTxva

iyo aseTi: „Tqven gekuTvnis is

„mowodeba genuis konferenciisadmi”,

romelic gamocxadda Tu

arao”?! _ diax, me mekuTvniso, upasuxe.

„vis uweria zed xeli Tqvens

garda, _ mkiTxa iseve. _ aravis, _

upasuxe me. vin miiRo „mowodebis”

SedgenaSi monawileoba Tqvens garda,

_ mkiTxa isev, _ aravin, _ miuge

me. „vin mogcaT ufleba xalxis,

eris saxeliT gamosvlisa, vin amogirCia

Tqven saqarTvelos opekunad”,

_ mkiTxa gajavrebuli kiloTi!

_ „amomirCia saeklesio krebam

gelaTSi, morwmune qarTvelobisagan

Semokrebilma. me Semosili

var iuridiuli da zneobrivi

uflebebiT, rogorc mamaTmTavari,

aRvimaRlo xma, rodesac Cems ers

saqme uWirs, rodesac iseTi vi-

Tareba iqmneba, romelSidac Seu-

Zlebeli xdeba eris religiurizneobrivi

saxis damuSaveba, rodesac

ers erTmeva saSvaleba Tavisufal

moqalaqobisa”, _ upasuxe me.

_ „ratom menSevikebis dros ar ima-

RlebdiT eklesiidan xmas, ratom

maT ar ewinaaRmdegebodiTo”, _

mkiTxa isev, TiTqos dacinvis kiloTi!

_ „menSevikebis Tayvanismcemeli

ar gaxlavar, _ upasuxe me, _

magram imas ki mogaxsenebT, rom

menSevikebi idgnen erovnul niadagze,

TviT icavden imas, razedac

exla me momixda xmis amaRleba, isini

erovnuli mTavroba iyo, saku-

Tar, damoukidebel niadagze idgnen,

marTalia eklesias aviwroebden,

magram eri iyo Tavisufali da

Cvenc vaxerxebdiT eris sulier

samsaxurs; exla ki sul sxva sura-

Tia, qarTvelebs Tavis mTavroba

ara hyavs, mTeli Zala-ufleba

rusis jaris xelSia, me arc ki vici,

vin aris Tqveni mTavrobis SemadgenlobaSio”.

amaze gajavrebiT

mkiTxa: „nu Tu marTla ar ici, vin

aris Cven mTavrobaSi?! nu Tu mar-

Tla ar ici, rom Cven saqarTvelos

mTavrobas SevadgenT, varT iseTive

damoukidebelni, rogorc menSevikebio”?!

_ „ar vici es, rac Tqven

exla brZaneT _ upasuxe me! is ki

vici, rom dRes mTeli Zalaufleba

„okas” (osobaia kavkazskaia

armia) xelSia, Tqvenc yvelani, vinc

TavisTavs saqarTvelos mTavrobas

uwodebT, maTi survilebis da nebis

aRmsruleblebi brZandebiT,

saqarTvelo Tqveni SemosvliT isev

ruseTis batonobis uRelSi mohyva,

is aRar aris damoukidebeli

qveyana, aivso sxva da sxva ucxo

elementebiT, gadailaxa misi sazRvrebi,

territoria _ miwa qveynisa

vigindarebs uvardebaT xelSi”. „es

sul tyuilia, _ mipasuxa kotem!

davijero, gazeTebs ar hkiTxulob,

rom Cven mTavrobis arCevnebic

movaxdineT saqarTveloSi, damoukidebeli

sabWoTa federatiuli

respublika SevqmeniT, amdeni skolebi

gavxseniT, amdeni sabavSvo

gamomcemloba movawyveT, aramcTu

davabrkoleT kulturuli winmsvleloba

Cveni erisa, aramed ufro

ganvaviTareT is. rusis jari Tqven

an saqarTvelos ras giSlisTo”?! me

upasuxe: „gazeTebs ar vkiTxulob,

erTxel quCa-quCa akravden gazeTebs,

me xo quCaSi ver gavCerdebodi

maT wasakiTxavad, da ise ki ise-

Ti Zviria Tqveni gazeTebi, rom

maTi yidva me ar SemiZlia, Tqven ki

arafrad gvTvliT, rom TiTo nomeri

gadmogvigzavnoT Cvens sasuliero

dawesebulebebSi da

Cvenc vicodeT saqmis viTareba

saqarTveloSi. Tqven mxolod

Tqvens gazeTebs uSvebT, sxva mimarTulebis

gazeTebs ki ara”. „nuras

ukacravad, _ mipasuxa kotem, _ Tu

Cveni mowinaaRmdege gazeTebs ar

vaZlevT arsebobis uflebas! sxva

ara iyos ra, qaRaldia Zviri”.

„qaRalds ki viSovnidiT, rom sityvis,

pirovnebis, rwmenis da sxva

„Tavisuflebani” iyvnen CvenSi daculnio”,

_ upasuxe me da ganvagrZe:

„me ise mqonda warmodgenili, rom

yvela es „Tavisuflebebi” uaRresad

iqneboden daculni komunistebis

mier, vinaidan programiT

es yvelaferi savsebiT gaqvT miRebuli,

magram saqmiT ki, namdvilad,

yovelive es ufro metad aris SeboWili

da akrZaluli Tqven mier,

vinem es odesme yofiliyo!” _ amaze

mipasuxa: „Tqven sasuliero akademia

dagisrulebiaT da iseT pasuxebs

da iseT azrebs gamosTqvamT,

rom yovelive es sicils gamoiwvevs,

rodesac tribunalSi wakiTxuli

iqnebao! davijero ar gagegebaT,

rom Cven revoliucias vawarmoebT,

proletariatis diqtatura

gamovacxadeT, swarmoebs

brZola mowinaaRmdegeebisadmi,

yvela Tavisuflebani, rac kia, es

mxolod CvenTvis gvinda, Tqven da

Tqveni dromoWmuli mimdevarni

cxovrebidan gariyulni xarT,

Tqven vin mogcemT Tavisuflebaso.

Tqven Zveli reJimis dros ruseT-

Si yofilxarT gadasaxlebuli,

dasjili, mTavrobisadmi winaaRmdegobisaTviso?!”

_ mkiTxa, _ „diax,

viyavi dasjili, gadasaxlebuli,

magram mTavrobisadmi winaaRmdegobisaTvis

ki ara, Cemi damonebuli

eris uflebebis aRsadgenado”.

_ „ara, es minusad ki ar CageTvlebaT,

piriqiT, plusia TqvenTviso.

exla Tqven unda daamtkicoT is

braldebani, romelnic wamogiyenebiaT

Cvens winaaRmdeg saqveynod

_ konferenciaze gagitania saCivlelad:

„rodis, ra da ramdeni qoneba

gazides rusebma saqarTvelodan?”

„amis damtkicebani _ sabuTebi

jibeSi rodi miZevs”, _ upasuxe

me; „am Taobaze masalebi maqvs Cems

kanceliariebSi, Sevagroveb maT da

mogarTmevo” _ upasuxe me. _ „kargi,

usaTuod unda warmomidginoo”,

_ sTqva man. „rodis da raSi gamoixata

Cven mier qarTvelobaSi sarwmunoebis

devna, _ esec sabuTebiT

unda daamtkico, agreTve isic, Tu

ra vneba moutania da moaqvs saqarTvelosTvis

rusis jars”? _ me

upasuxe: „sxva ro ara iyos ra, amodena

jars Wama ar unda?! Cven

xalxs TviT ar hyofnis Tavisi

sazrdo da es uamravi jari xo

suls arTmevs mas”. „rogor, Tqven

ar iciT, rom jari ruseTidan Rebulobs

Tviss sazrdos?! Cveni

masze srulebiT ara ixarjeba ra”,

_ brZana kotem. _ „mapatieT Tu ver

dageTanxmod amaze: ruseTSi xalxi

SimSilisagan iJuJReba, kaciWamiaobamde

mividnen, iqauri damSeuli

bavSebiT aivso saqarTvelo, mec ki

movkari maT gamxdar-galeul saxes

Tvali, da aseT qveynidan jarisaTvis

sursaTis mowodeba yovlad

daujerebelia, jaric da xalxic

ikvebeba Cveni puriT da agreTve

kanadis puriT, romelic Semodis

baTum-foTis boRazebiT da igzavnebian

aqedan ruseTSi! amasac Tu

damtkiceba sWirdeba, RmerTma mSvidoba

mogces Tqo”, _ movaxsene me.

_ me „mowodebaSi” erTi sityviTac

ar maqvs naTqvami TiTqos Tqveni

mowinaaRmdege viyve, an Tqveni

Camogdeba msurdes, iyaviT qarTveli

komunistebi da awarmoeT Tqveni

rwmena-programma sakuTari Zal-

RoniT; SeqmeniT sakuTari qarTuli

jari, qarTuli kultura,

rusebma TavianT Tavs da TavianT

kars mihxedon, ai, me ris Tqma mindoda!

Tqven ambobT kulturul

winmsvlelobas vawarmoebT saqarTveloSio!

me verc amas vxedav,

yovelive eris kulturis msvlelobis

gamomsaxvelia misi universiteti;

aba, daxedeT, ras warmoadgens

dRes Cveni universiteti!

erTi perioduli, sakuTari

gamocema ara aqvs, rom mecnieruli

namuSevari ibeWdebodes?! es

aris Tqveni kulturuli winmsvlelobao”?

_ „es droebiTia, sul

male magasac mivaqcevT yuradRebas,

rodesac iqidan kontrrevoliucias

gamovdevniTo”, _ mipasuxa

kotem.

„bevri ram kidev vilaparakeT,

bevri rame mkiTxa, zogze upasuxe,

zogze _ vera! Cven daudevari

xalxi varT, ar viyavi momzadebuli,

arc aravin momigroveT

sabuTebi, exla ki yvela muxlebis

dokumentalur damtkicebas mTxoven;

rasakvirvelia, bevri defeqtebi

eqneba Cems Cvenebas, ase

Tavisuflad TqvenTan vlaparakob,

iq ki ver viyavi Cems arsebaSi; vnaxoT

ra iqneba, bolos ase miTxra

kotem: „Tqveni Cveneba jer Savad

gvaqvs dawerili, xeli moawereT,

gadavaTeTrebT, isev wagikiTxavT,

zed Tqveni damtkicebanic unda

daurToTo da xels mogaweriebT”.

daviRale, momSivda kidec, davsustdi;

gamomiSva, arc ki gamomeTxova,

zurgi momaqcia ise gavida Tavis

oTaxSi da Cailaparaka, _ miacileT

saxlamde, fexiT nu gauSvebTo;

Camsves avtomobilSi da erTi SoferiT

mxolod, momiyvanes saxlSio”.

_ daamTavra kaTolikozma.

„sabuTebs” agrovebs sakaT. sab-

Wos kanceliariis gamge dek. k. cincaZe

da saeparqio kanceliariis

mdivani d. daviTaSvili, amaT exmareba

dek. ilia SublaZe; am ukanasknelis

sityviT „bevr dokumentebs

mogvawodebeno” (igulisxme _

menSevikebi); f. maxaraZis moxsenebis

asli unda viSovnoTo (uSovniaT

kidec), momces winadadeba _

„dokumentebi mogvawodeo”; _ „rac

ar maqvs ra mogawodoT Tqo”, _

upasuxe me. aq dokumentebze rodia

saqme, rac unda dokumentebi

warudginoT, sul erTia arc erTs

ar miiReben isini sabuTad, yvelafers

„gagibaTileben”. Cemis

azriT, rac ufro daeyrdnobiT

„dokumentebs”, miT ufro

gabrazdebian da yalxze dadgebian

isini, bolos magondeba „deda-ena-

Si” moyvanili araki: „mgeli da batkani”

_ ra Sari da braldeba ar

mosdo mgelma batkans, am ukanasknelma

yvelaferSi Tavi imarTla,

mgelma isev Seutia, _ „Sen wyals

mimRvrevo”, _ maSin batkanmac

Sehkadra: „Sen zeviTa xar, me

qveviT, rogor agimRvrev wyalsao”!

bolos mgelma mainc gamoxra batkani

im „sabuTiT” _ mas „CaxeTqva”

undoda!.. Turme es araki adamianze

yofila naTqvami! me exla vxvdebi

nel-nela aseT rameebis azrsa

da mniSvnelobasa Tqo”. gaicines...

N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.

35

giorgi sakaruli

555 42 42 81

vis unda vumadlodeT imas, rom

dRes moda saerTod arsebobs?! modis istorias Tu gadavxedavT,

yvela erTxmad gvetyvis, ra Tqma unda, „mefe mze” ludoviko me-

ToTxmetes. im dros safrangeTSi oqros xana iyo didebuli ceremoniebi,

yoveldRiuri zeimebi da mejlisebi, fufuneba da zrun-

va axal tansacmelze. ludoviko meToTxmetis dawyebuli saqme

maria-antuanetam ganagrZo, romelic safrangeTSi avstriidan Cam-

ovida da gadawyvita, Tavisi CacmulobiT yvela gaekvirvebina.

dedoflisTvis axal-axal kabebs

karis mkeravi roza berteni

qmnida, romelsac mogvianebiT „modis

ministris” tituli mianiWes.

swored roza bertenis qmnilebaa

saxelganTqmuli krinolini, aseve

warmoudgeneli simaRlisa da „arqiteqturis”

varcxnilobebi, romelSic

marto yvavilebs ki ara,

bafTebs, lentebs, Zvirfaseulobas,

miniaturul xomaldebsa da

wisqvilsac ki ipovidiT. bertenis

Semdeg daiwyo is epoqa, roca mkeravebi

ubralod mkeravebi ki

aRar iyvnen, aramed nel-nela kutiurieebad

yalibdebodnen. magaliTad,

madam bertenis Sekerili kaba

imaze ocjer meti Rirda, vidre imdroindeli

mkeravis wliuri Semosavali

iyo.

wlebisa da saukuneebis Semdegac

ki yvela Tanxmdeba, rom maRali

moda warmoiSva parizSi da epicentri

swored safrangeTia. ase

fiqrobs da ambobs qarTveli dizaineri

fatuna buSihedi, romelic

msoflios 60 saukeTeso dizainers

Soris dasaxelda da parizSi mas

moixsenieben, rogorc „axal qars

modis sferoSi”. fatuna erTader-

Ti qarTveli dizaineria, romlis

saxelsac Sanelisa da dioris

gverdiT gavigonebT. igi modis

oficialur kalendarSia Sesuli.

dizaineri amayia, rom msofliom

fatunas brendi gaicno da saqarTvelos

araerTxel moutana warmateba.

misi gansxvavebuli da mravalferovani

koleqciis Cvenebas

msoflio mediis yuradRebis gare-

Se ar Cauvlia. fatunas yvela „fe-

Seni” wamyvani televiziebis pirdapir

eTerSi gadaicemoda. qarTveli

dizaineris samosiT ki frangi

msaxiobebi kanis kinofestivalze

wiTel xaliCaze iwonebdnen Tavs

da paparacebis winaSe poziorobdnen.

„qronika+~ dizainers saxelos-

noSi estumra _ Cven im zRaprul

samyaroSi aRmovCndiT, sadac in-

axeba xeliT Seqmnili, ulamazesi

kostiumebi da im istoriis naw-

ili, romelic dizainerma wlebis

manZilze daagrova:

_ es yvelaferi bavSvobis replikaa,

Rrma siyrmis gancda, rom

vmdgariyavi scenaze, mimeRo aplodismenti,

meCvenebina Cemi Sesa-

Zlebloba sayvareli mayureblisTvis.

is, rac SigniT mqonda,

gareT gadmovitane da daviwye samosis

Seqmna. vsaubrobdi Cemi kabebiT,

es iyo xidi Cems Semoqmedebasa

da mayurebels Soris.

bavSvobidan scenaze vdgavar, 4

wlidan uamrav speqtaklSi maqvs

monawileoba miRebuli. Cemi erTerTi

profesia stomatologiaa da

xumrobiT vambobdi, rom axal

kbils ver gamovigonebdi. bevri

geniosi mxatvari viciT, uamravi

xelovani adamiani gvyavs, Targi Seqmnilia

da sul vfiqrobdi, Tu ra

unda gamekeTebina iseTi gansaku-

Trebuli, rom msoflios gavecne

da cnobili persona vyofiliyavi.

gadavwyvite, sazogadoebisTvis damenaxvebina

is fantazia, rac CemSi

zis, romelic Sevkari da 25 samos-

Si gadavanawile. es aris is emocia,

36


romelsac eqvsi Tvis ganmavloba-

Si vagroveb, rom Semdeg 15 wuTiT

gamovitano podiumze. es aris

emocia, risTvisac yvelaferi giRirs.

Zalian bevrs Sromob, TiTebSi

gaqvs nemsis tkivili, radgan yvelafers

xeliT akeTeb. qinZisTavic

ki gadamiylapavs, bevrjer davvardnilvar

makratelze, profesiuli

marcxic momsvlia da sxva uamravi

ram... axla ki sasacilod maxsendeba

es istoriebi, magram maSin

uzarmazari stresi iyo.

mivxvdi, rom unda SemeZina qsovilebi,

maTTan damemyarebina saer-

To ena da damewyo Seqmna. gadavwyvite,

gadmometana arqiteqturuli

nimuSebis fragmentebi samosSi,

gamekeTebina mefuri saZineblebis

detalebi tansacmelSi. ase moxda

monas saxlmuzeumSi. is davxate

tiloze, Semdeg CarCo gavukeTe da

broSebi gavakeTe misgan. ase gadmovitane

Cems samosSi salvador

dalis namuSevrebi, lui meTeqvsmetis

saZineblis fragmenti, mariaantuanetas

biblioTekis fragmenti

da baxis oranJeriasi. Cems koleqcias

yovelTvis Tematuri datvirTva

aqvs. mainteresebda, rogor

miiRebda msoflio Cems Sinagan

samyaros. bednieri var, rom

sworad miiRes da aman ufro gamimZafra

pasuxismgebloba. nel-nela

daviwye sxvadasxva Temaze muSaoba:

Rvinis Tema, parizis mTvare, siyvarulis

deklaracia, samoTxemde

xidi da bevri sxva. TiToeuli Cemi

namuSevari raRac istorias giyveba.

amerikuli ocneba

_ moRvaweoba amerikaSi daviwye.

Zalian bevri Cemi megobari iq cxovrobs

da iyo periodi, rodesac

maT vurCevdi, Tu rasTan ra unda

CaecvaT. es, ra Tqma unda, maTi

surviliT xdeboda. moswondaT

rogorc me vimosebodi da mec Cems

azrs vuziarebdi maT. Sevqmeni samosi,

romelic gadavagzavne erTerTi

modis kvireulze, sadac

Zalian maleve mimiwvies. amerikuli

ocneba amixda! _ gamiformes kontraqti

da ori kviris Semdeg

Cvenebac CainiSna. rogorc ki Cveneba

dasrulda, kulisebSi Semovidnen,

avtografi mTxoves, gadaiRes

suraTebi da 20 wuTSi adamianebma

TavianTi emocia gamiziares. saRamos,

zustad meore dRes, momdis

werili, rom dampatiJa sxva Cvenebis

organizatorma, prezidentma da

damfuZnebelma. iqac miviRe monawileoba

da ase gaikvala Cemi gza

sazRvrebs gareT.

Cemi meuRle iyo is, vinc endo

Cems Semoqmedebas. man miTxra, rom

ar unda davixio ukan da Cemi saqmianoba

gavagrZelo. dilis 5 saaTze

rom muza mogiva da adgebi, romeli

adamiani miiRebs amas normalurad?

Cemnairi araordinaluri

unda iyo, rom es yvelaferi miiRo,

Tumca mqonda rTuli periodebic,

magram yvelafers gavuZeli.

nebismier Cvenebaze kidev erTxel

gamaqvs saqarTvelos saxeli da

mudmivad xazs vusvam, rom me var

qarTveli, saqarTvelodan, im qveynidan,

romelmac Semqmna iseTi,

`mxiblavs salome

fatuna buSihedi:

`bednieri var, rom

Sanelisa da dioris

gverdiT fatunas

moixsenieben~

rogoric var. ar SemiZlia, iseTi

magari qveyana, rogoric saqarTveloa,

avdge da mivatovo. Zalian

bevri SemoTavazeba mqonda, davr-

Ceniliyavi amerikaSi, Tundac safrangeTSi,

magram verasdros

waval sacxovreblad versad. es

qveyana Cemia, es haeri Cemia, romelsac

im adamianebTan erTad viziareb,

vinc Cems mSobliur enaze

metyvelebs. es is qveyanaa, romelic

miyvars Tavisi warsuliT, momavaliT,

awymoTi da tkiviliT.

Cvenma qveyanam imdeni raRac gadaitana,

rom Cven masTan erTad gavizardeT,

CamovyalibdiT da, albaT,

arasdros arafris SegveSindeba.

gaWirveba, mxarSi dgoma, zurgis

qceva, _ yvelaferSi gagvwvrTna.

Cemi Svilebic ki saqarTveloSi

swavloben, iswavles da aq gavaCine.

saqarTveloSi yvela niWieria.

viRaca metad, viRaca naklebad,

Tumca yvelaSi aris is marcvali,

rom yuri daugdos da mousminos

Tavis Sinagan xmas, Tumca zogi axerxebs,

zogic _ ver. bevrs ezareba

an ar surs, zogi piriqiT, Sromobs,

raTa Tavisi Sinagana ganwyoba gaaRvivos

ama Tu im sferos mimarT.

visac es ar ezareba, aseT xalxs

Zalian did pativs vcem. saqarTveloSi

uamravi niWieri adamiani

gvyavs, maT dafaseba sWirdebaT. Tu

arada, erTmaneTs mainc amovudgeT

mxarSi, gavamxnevoT, vurCioT, rac

me arasdros mezareba.

_ kedelze Zalian bevri mniSvnelovani

foto vnaxe. warmomid-

genia, TiToeuli maTgani ramxela

istoriis matarebelia.

_ diax, yvela es foto Zalian

did istorias moicavs. ramdenime

maTgani gadaRebulia kanis kinofestivalze,

sadac frang msaxiobebs

Cemi kostiumebi acviaT.

aseve erT-erTi foto maSinaa gadaRebuli,

rodesac msoflios 60

saukeTeso axalgazrda dizainers

Soris damasaxeles. media Zalian

did rols TamaSobs, _ amerikis

erT-erT arxze iyo Cemi Cvenebis

pirdapiri translacia; safrangeT-

Si, rodesac Cveneba maqvs, mas msoflios

260 mediasaSualeba aSuqebs,

rac Zalian maxarebs. aqtualuri

aris ara mxolod fatuna, aramed

fatuna saqarTvelodan.

_ Tqven monawileobT maRali

modis kvireulebze, magram,

ratomRac, arasdros SemimCnevix-

arT qarTuli modis kvireulebze.

ratom?

_ qarTul modis kvireulebze

ar vmonawileob, radgan mirCevnia,

msofliom metad gaicnos Cemi Semoqmedeba

da saqarTvelos saxeli

gavitano qveynis gareT, vidre aq

konkretul Cvenebaze gamovide.

Tumca, rogorc vici, aqac uke daiwyes

msoflio mediis warmomadgenlebis

Camoyvana, rac Zalian maxarebs.

iq ufro Cemi garemoa, radgan

esmiT da sxvanairad aRiqvamen,

Tu ra aris xelnakeTi samosi. modis

epicentri mainc parizSia. iq ufro

moTxovnadia Cemi koleqcia, didi

interesiT akvirdebian yvelafers

da ufro Rrmad Semodian

Cems SemoqmedebaSi, rac did stimuls

maZlevs, rom meti Sevqmna.

_ SourumebSi didi moTxovna

iqneba Tqvens kabebze?

_ moTxovna didia, magram imdenad

vgiJdebi Cems kabebze, rom ver

vasxviseb. amitom gadavwyvite, Cems

saxelosnoSi davumkvidro adgili,

romelic, faqtobrivad, CemTvis

36 N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.


zurabiSvilis Cacmuloba~

muzeumia. TiToeul kostiums Tavisi

istoria aqvs. Tu vinmes moundeba

Cemi romelime kabiT wardgena,

Tundac Jurnalis ydaze, klipsa

Tu sxva gadaRebaze, konkretul

kabas gavanaTxovreb, magram ar

gavyidi.

_ STabeWdileba mrCeba, rom es

TqvenTvis biznesi ar aris?

_ namdvilad, es araa biznesi, es

Cemi Semoqmedeba da sulis nawilia,

Cemi Sinagani samyaro, romelic

minda, rom msoflios vaCveno, miiRon

da miviRo SeniSvnac, Tumca

es ar aris gasakritikebeli Tema.

poeti leqss ise dawers, rogorc

mas surs. Sen ver miscem miniSnebas,

rom am sityvis magivrad sxva sityva

unda yofiliyo, radgan is poetia,

is ase fiqrobs da ase gadmoscems

Tavis saTqmels. asevea

modis xelovnebac. Cemi erT-erTi

koleqcia saxelwodebiT: „cecxli,

miwa, wyali da haeri”, mivuZRveni

dedamiwas, romelsac Zalian didi

gafrTxileba sWirdeba adamianebisgan.

dedamiwas unda movuaroT da

ise gavaRmerToT, rogorc siyvaruli.

dedamiwa absoluturad

yvelafers gvaZlevs da fexakrefiT

unda viaroT, amden tkivils

ukve veRar uZlebs. dRevandeli

situaciac swored erT-erTi pasuxia

imisa, rac msoflios daatyda

Tavs. erTgvari paralizeba

moaxdina, xalxi umuSevari darCa,

niRbebi gagvikeTa, rom aRar visaubroT

cudze. me ase vxedav am

yvelafers. dezobarierebi Seiqmna,

es xom erTgvari miniSnebaa. imdeni

sisxli iRvreba miwaze, rom sasaklaod

gadaiqca mTeli dedamiwa. energetikuli

simZime dagrovda da

amoxeTqa. Tu Cven amas ar movuvliT,

vfiqrob, Zalian cud Sedegebamde

mivalT.

sakuTari Tavi rom gavaTavisufloT

Cvenive egoizmisgan gacilebiT

kargad vigrZnobT Tavs. ggoniaT,

me ar maqvs problemebi? _

rogor ara, magram amis filtracias

vakeTeb. Senive goneba Sen

unda daalago da dawmindo. amdeni

negativi faravs gonebis nawils da

agresiuli xdebi. agresia ki

geometriuli progresiiT izrdeba,

rogorc Tovlis gunda, romelic

nel-nela diddeba, Semdeg saidanRac

gordeba da iSleba. zustad

vici, rom adamianze arasdros unda

vTqva cudi, radgan es negativi

raRac momentSi me damibrundeba,

SeiZleba Cems Svils daubrundes.

„ra zRaparsac moiqsov, im zRapar-

Sic gardaicvlebi”, _ es aris genialuri

poetis, mwerlisa da Semoqmedis,

gia nikolaZis sityvebi,

romlis poemac aucileblad unda

moedos mTel msoflios.

_ fatuna, pandemiis gamo geg-

mebi CageSalaT?

_ ra Tqma unda, Svidi Cveneba

CameSala, Tumca romel Cvenebazea

zurabiSvilis Cacmuloba~

subari, rodesac xalxma samsaxuri

dakarga, am yvelafris fonze xmas

ver viReb.

_ xelovani adamianisTvis

Zalian rTulia saxlSi ufunq-

ciod jdoma. Tqven ras akeTebdiT

pandemiis dros?

_ mTeli pandemiis periodSi vxatavdi,

yvelafers vakeTebdi, rom

sakuTar TavTan marto ar vyofiliyavi.

viloceb imisTvis, rom yvelaferi

male dalagdes da xalxi

daubrundes Tavis Cveul ritms. am

periodSi Sevqmeni koleqciebi, gavakeTe

bavSvebis xazi, movxate yvelaferi,

rac ki SeiZleboda momexata:

kedlebi, sarkeebi, kari da a. S.

_ rogorc vici, maRaziis gaxsnas

apirebT. mogviyeviT amis Sesax-

eb...

_ vapireb maRaziis gaxsnas, romelic

iqneba Cems Zvel da ulamazes

ubanSi, kargareTelis quCaze, _

musikis, xelovnebisa da Teatris

muzemsa da kino apolos Soris. es

gaxlavT adgili, sadac gavizarde

da igi tkivilamde miyvars. Zalian

male gavxsni maRazias, romelsac

Cems xalxs mivuZRveni. yovel kviras

meqneba Cemi Zveli koleqciidan

kabebis gamofena, _ es aris xelovneba,

romelic xelSeuxebelia,

xolod meore xazi iqneba, Ziri-

Tadad, momxmarebelze orientirebuli

da gayidvadi.

_ am etapze raze muSaobT?

_ am etapze koleqciasa da ma-

Raziis interierze vmuSaob.

_ Tqveni inspiraciis wyaro vin

an ra aris?

_ inspiracia yovelTvis iyo

Zlieri qali, romlis ukanac

imaleba uzarmazari sibrZne, qali,

romelic sicocxles Sobs da meore

guliscema esmis.

_ yvelaze didi Sefaseba,

romelic am wlebis manZilze miiReT?

rogor imoqmeda am yvela-

ferma Tqvens cxovrebaze?

_ 2015 wels, rodesac parizSi

damarqves „axali qari modis sferoSi”,

_ es iyo CemTvis yvelaze didi

kibe, romelzedac videqi da periodi,

rodesac Sanelis, dioris

gverdiT Cems brends moixseniebdnen.

bednieri var, rom modis oficialur

kalendarSi weria: diori,

fatuna, Saneli... aman Zalian didi

siaxaruli, pasuxismgebloba, gancda,

emocia, bedniereba erTad momgvara.

_ rogor fiqrobT, arsebobs

meore fatuna?

_ ara.

_ fatuna, modasa da politika-

ze minda, gkiTxoT. Tu adevnebT

Tvalyurs qarTvel politikoss

qalbatonebs? ramdenad mogwonT

maTi Cacmuloba da vin arian isi-

ni?

_ Zalian apolitikuri var. zogadad,

vizualuri mxaris garda

yovelTvis vakvirdebi, Tu rogor

metyvelebs adamiani. absoluturad

sxva enaa CemTvis politika.

rodesac adamiani metyvelebs, Zalauneburad

aqcev mis xmis tembrs

yuradRebas da vizuals, Semdeg avtomaturad

gadadixar imaze, Tu

rogor aris Semosili. iq SeiZleba

iyos gacilebiT didi aqsesuari,

vidre im momentSi sWirdeba, magram

es Tu imas abednierebs, CemTvis

problemas ar warmodgens. piriqiT,

unda da ekeTos. samyaro Tavisufalia,

romelic yvelas ekuTvnis.

erTi periodi mklavze tyavis samajuri

mekeTa da zed qors visvamdi,

ase davdiodi, es mabednierebda!

deda arafers meubneboda, Tumca

arsebobs dreskodi, romelic

aucileblad unda gaiTvaliswino.

rodesac xar politikosi qalbatoni,

maqsimalurad akademiurad

unda gamoiyurebode. aqcenti ar

unda gadmovides Sens samkaulze an

dekolteze, aseve gasaTvaliswinebelia

Tmis varcxniloba. unda gamoirCeode

sisadaviT da maqsimalurad

unda gaakontrolo saubari.

unda gamoiyurebode akademiurad,

mimzidvelad da ara gamaRizianeblad.

_ arsebobs TqvenTvis aseTi

politikosi, romelic akademi-

uradac gamoiyureba da, amavd-

roulad, mimzidvelic aris?

_ diax, ramdenime politikosi

qalbatonia, romelic, simarTle

giTxraT, ar vici, vin romel partiaSia,

magram maTi stili Zalian

momwons. vizualurad vgiJdebi

Cvens prezidentze.

_ mogwonT salome zurabiSvi-

lis Cacmis stili da vizualuri

mxare?

_ diax. Cacmis stilic momwons

da Zalian Tanamedrovea.

_ aqvs franguli gavlena?

_ ki, Zalian. me bavSvobidan momwons

da mxiblavs es qalbatoni,

axla ar gamicnia igi. 20-21 wlis

winaT qalbatoni salome modioda

Cvens saxlSi stumrad da Zalian

didi simpaTiiT viyavi Tavidanve

ganwyobili mis mimarT.

_ mis garderobSi Tu aris fa-

tunas samosi?

_ ara.

_ SemoTavazeba rom gqondeT,

CaacmevdiT salome zurabiSvils?

_ ra Tqma unda. me, Cavacmev absoluturad

yvela im adamians,

visac surs, rom ecvas fatuna.

CemTvis mniSvneloba ar aqvs adamianis

statuss, mTavaria, fatuna

moswondes.

_ wlebia, modixarT, bevr sf-

eroSi gimuSaviaT, sakmaod didi

gza gamoiareT, rom dRemde mosuliyaviT.

rogor fiqrobT, ip-

oveT sakuTari Tavi?

_ Cemi maqsimumisTvis jer ar

mimiRwevia. Zalian bevri maqvs gasakeTebeli

da Sesaqmneli. eqskluziurad

getyviT, rom vapireb SemecnebiTi

gadacemis gakeTebas, romelic

minda, rom internetSi gavides.

es iqneba gadacema yvelaferze

politikis garda: xelovnebaze,

kulturaze, Teatrze, modaze,

simReraze, astrologiasa da absoluturad

yvelaferze.

N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.

37


nakrebi rva erisTvis safrangeTSi wavida

yviteT, „rva eramde” „oriakisTvis”

dagveTmo. klubi iSova da kote

miqautaZe iq gaivlis reabilitacias.

isini „Semodgomis erTa TasisTvis”

SemadgenlobaSi moiazrebian”,

ganacxada nakrebis mTavarma

mwvrTnelma levan maisaSvilma,

romelmac gafarToebul SemadgenlobaSi

or debiutants, „umcros

borjRalosnebs” uxmo „lelo-sarasensis”

9 nomer giorgi margalitaZes

da „biaricis” burj luka

azariaSvils.

„margalitaZe maisidan CvenTan

varjiSobda da karg fizikur da

teqnikur kondiciaSia. misi TamaSebi

20-wlamdelTa nakrebidan gvaxsovs

da radgan alanias gafarToebul

SemadgenlobaSi aRar veZaxdiT,

arCevani margalitaZeze SevaCere.

arCevanis saSualeba gvqonda

pirvel xazSi da sabolood azariaSvilze

SevjerdiT. mas yaulaSvilisa

da gigaSvilis msgavsad,

orive poziciaze SeuZlia TamaSi,

disciplinirebulia. kargia, rogorc

SetevaSi, aseve _ dacvaSi, bur-

Tis amoRebaSic Zlieria da „biaricSi”

saTamaSo droc aqvs. mas safrangeTSi

Sekrebaze davakvirdebiT.

vin wava SotlandiaSi, es

swored safrangeTSi gadawydeba”,

dasZina maisaSvilma.

magaliTi

kriStianu ronaldum „iuventusis”

gasaxdelSi serio-

zuli skandali moawyo. saqme is

aris, rom gundis or TanamSromels

koronavirusi daudas-

turda. xelmZRvanelobam gad-

awyvita, fexburTelebi klubis

sastumroSive gadaeyvana karantinze,

romelic iqve, sawvrT-

nel bazasTan mdebareobs.

arada, im momentSi fexbu-

rTelebs or-or testze hqon-

daT miRebuli uaryofiTi pasuxi,

italiuri jandacvis protokoli

ki sam tests iTval-

iswinebs.

Tu karantinSi darCeboda,

ronaldus espaneTTan portu-

galiis nakrebis amxanaguri

matCi unda gamoetovebina (0:0).

ronaldus klubis ori xe-

lmZRvanelTagani miugzavnes,

romlebsac man RrialiT auxs-

na sakuTari simarTle, mere ki

is Tanagundelebic miayola,

romlebmac Sefebis pozicia

gaiziares.

kriStianum baza datova da

samSobloSi gafrinda. ukve

amis Semdeg mis magaliTs miba-

Zes paulo dibalam, xuan

kvadradom, danilom, rodrigo

bentankurma da merix demiral-

ma sakuTar nakrebebs Seuer-

Tdnen. amaTma Semyure jiji

bufonma CanTa Caalaga da…

ubralod, Sin wavida.

danarCeni sastumroSi kar-

antinze gadaiyvanes. jer urC

fexburTelTa mimarT sanqcie-

bze klubSi araferi Tqmula.

maSin, roca saqarTvelom erTa ligis naxevarfinalSi

belarusi daamarcxa, imavdroulad,

reikiavikSi gairkva, rom evropis

Cempionatze moxvedris SemTxvevaSi Cvenebi

C jgufSi niderlandebTan, ukrainasTan da

avstriasTan iTamaSeben. ori matCi buqarestSi

gaimarTeba, erTic _ amsterdamSi,

nidernaldebTan.

da ra SuaSia reikiaviki?

swored islandiaSi daTmo Tavisi sapleiofo

matCi rumineTis nakrebma, romlis

Sedegzec iyo damokidebuli C da F jgufeb-

Si meoTxe gundebis vinaoba.

rumineTi, cxadia, warmatebis SemTxveva-

Si, buqarestis 55-aTasian „arena nacionalze”

iTamaSebda, D ligis gamarjvebuli

(saqarTvelo an makedonia) ki germania, safrangeTi,

portugaliis qvejgufSi wavidoda

da samidan or matCs miunxenis „alians

arenaze” iTamaSebda.

rumineTma islandiaSi 1:2 daTmo da evropis

Cempionats iqve daemSvidoba. islandia

ki ungreTSi gaarkvevs kontinentis pirvelobaze

gamsvlelisa da Sesabamisad, F jgufis

meoTxe gundis vinaobas.

mokled, ukve gadawyvetilia, rom

saqarTvelo Crd. makedoniis damarcxebis

SemTxvevaSi 2021 wlis 13 ivniss buqarestSi

avstrias Sexvdeba; 17-Si iqve, ukrainas

daupirispirdeba; 21 ivniss ki amsterdamSi,

„iohan kruif arenaze”, niderlandelebTan

iTamaSebs. oRond iqamde, erTxelac vTqvaT,

12 noembers Cvenebma „dinamo arenaze” makedonias

unda ajobon.

saqarTveloSi myofi borjRalosnebi,

romlebic TbilisSi, „Sevardenis”

bazaze, 21 seqtembridan

TviTizolaciaSi varjiSobdnen, 11

oqtombers 10-dRian Sekrebaze safrangeTSi

gaemgzavrnen.

„msoflio ragbis” me-9 regulaciis

Tanaxmad, mandelioSi nakrebs

sami dRiT (orSabaTidan

oTxSabaTis CaTvliT) legionerebi

SeuerTdebian. xuTSabaTs maTi

nawili klubebs daubrundeba da

nakrebis Sekrebaze orSabaTs

gamocxaddeba. gundi SotlandiaSi

21 oqtombers miemgzavreba, sadac

23-Si edinburgis „marifildze”

„narSavebs” daupirispirdeba.

winaswar gamocxadebul gafar-

Toebul SemadgenlobaSi cvlilebebia.

kiTxvis niSnis qveSaa SotlandiasTan

da ruseTTan beqa giga-

Svilisa da levan CilaCavas Tama-

Si. maTi bedi momaval kviraSi gairkveva.

janmrTelobasTan dakav-

Sirebuli problemebi aqvs daviT

gigaurs da savaraudod, pirvel

or TamaSs isic gamotovebs. SotlandiasTan

da ruseTTan mat-

CisTvis ar moemzadebian mixeil

alania da kote miqautaZe. am etapze

isini klubebSi darCebian.

„mixeil alanias klubSi saTamaSo

praqtika eqneba da gadavw-

vis ergeba

C ?

ase icekva lebronma...

amerikis nacionaluri sakalaTburTo asociaciis sezoni

dasrulebulia. finalis meeqvse SexvedraSi „los-anjeles

leikersma” 106:93 gadasZala „maiami hiti” da istoriaSi meCvidmeted

gaxda NBA-s triumfatori. aqedan pirveli xuTi Cempionoba

gundma maSin moipova, roca mineapolisSi iyo bazirebuli,

12-jer ki ukve angelosTa qalaqis saxeliT ipirvela.

17 tituliT „leikersi” aranakleb legendarul „boston

seltiqss” gautolda.

flei ofis MVP-ad, bunebrivia, lebron jeimsi aRiares,

romelmac gunduri da piradi Tasebi Caibara da sacekvavo improvizirebuli

nomeric dadga.

„madloba yvelas, visac bolomde swamda Cveni. pativiscemas

imsaxurebs klubis xelmZRvaneloba, yvela Cemi Tanagundeli,

TiToeuli qomagi da jandabas, ar viqnebi Tavmdabali mec

vimsaxureb”, brZana bednierma mefem.

38

38 N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.

...arada,

estoneTTan

wageba merCivna

somxeTis nakrebTan TiTqos nominalurad

stumrebi viyaviT da xom iciT, stumrad mopovebul

qulas oqros fasi aqvs. matCi ki poloneTis

qalaq tixiSi Sedga. ase brZana uefam, romelmac

gundebi yarabaRis oms gaarida.

dasanania mezoblebTan fre gansakuTrebiT

imis fonze, rom jgufis meore matCSi CrdiloeT

makedoniam estoneTi ver daamarcxa.

Crdilo makedonielebTan qulebSi pariteti

SenarCunda da axla saqarTvelos uamocanesi

darCa makedoniaSi mogeba. fre maT utovebs upiratesobas…

es sul maTematikaa, magram emocia? ver davmalav

da merCivna, somxeTTan mogebis sanacvlod,

estoneTTan Sin wagvego.

cxadia, mtrulad ara, sportul-principultradiciulad

merCivna. rac iyo, iyo. egeb, belarusTan

matCis Semdeg ZiriTad Semadgenloba-

Si erTbaSad cxra fexburTelis Canacvlebam

vaiss makedoniaSi gaumarTlos da mere vinRaa

misi gamsamarTlebeli, magram warumateblobisas

seriozuli vaisisTvis da vuisisTvis unda iyos

mzad mosagebi TamaSi saqarTvelom mxolod quliT

daamTavra.

kidev erTic: Cveni gundis kapitani jaba kankava

gladiatoria da strategias aras dagidevs.

misma yviTelma baraTma ki momdevno SexvedraSi

gundi sakvanZo figuris gareSe datova.

Tan ra xelis gawvdenaze iyo Zalian gemrieli

mogeba da fora, romelic makedoniasTan gveqneboda.

Sumaxeri

brundeba

mik Sumaxeri, romelic didi

mrbolelis, mixael Sumaxeris

Svilia, formula 1-Si iaspare-

zebs.

germaneli 9-11 oqtombers

niurburgringis trasaze, Alpha

Romeo-s gundis saxeliT, rbo-

lamde gasamarT FP1-Si

(Free

Practice 1) miiRebs monawile-

obas.

miki amJamad Formula 2-Si

gamodis da saerTo CaTvlas

191 quliT liderobs. man mim-

dinare sezonSi 2 gran-pri,

monca da soWi moigo.

momavali sezonidan mik

Sumaxeri, didi albaTobiT, Alpha

Romeo-s SeuerTdeba da

italiel antonio jovinacis

Caanacvlebs, misi mewyvile ki

legendaruli fineli mrbole-

li kimi raikoneni iqneba.

N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.


saqarTvelo fineTSi daibares

saqarTvelos sakalaTburTo nakrebi momdevno or

matCs fineTSi gamarTavs. ilias zurosis gundi jer

maspinZlebs eTamaSeba, xolo Semdeg Sveicarias. wesiT,

bolo matCi SveicariaSi unda gamarTuliyo, magram

fiba-evropam gadawyvita, rom matCebi „bablis”

sistemiT Caetarebina.

fiba-evropis mier dadgenili fanjara 23-30 noembriT

ganisazRvreba, TamaSebis Catarebis zusti TariRebi

ki mogvianebiT dadgindeba.

E jgufSi saqarTvelos nakrebTan erTad serbe-

Ti, fineTi da Sveicaria asparezoben. saqarTvelos

kalaTburTelTa nakrebma evrobasketis sakvalifikacio

etapi warmatebulad daiwyo _ Sin SveicariasTan

gamarjvebis Semdeg stumrad serbeTsac sZlia da

jgufis saTaveSi imyofeba. Tumca isic saTqmelia,

rom ilias zurosis gunds evrobasketze moxvedra garantirebuli

aqvs, radgan erT-erT jgufs maspin-

Zlobs.

iga da

rafa

fantastikuria! espanelma

rafa nadalma „rolan garosis”

finalSi sam setSi daamarcxa

novak jokoviCi da safrangeTis

Ria pirvelobis gamarjvebu-

li mecameted gaxda.

rafas am turnirze sul 15-

jer aqvs naTamaSevi da sul ori

marcxi ganicada, novakTan

mogeba ki me-100 iyo. jamurad,

misi slemtitulebis odenoba

20 gaxda, riTac rojer feder-

ers gautolda.

safrangeTSi 13 titulidan

4 espanels setis dauTmoblad

aqvs mogebuli rekordi! didi

muzaradis turnirebze pirvelsa

da jerjerobiT bolo gama-

rjvebas Soris sxvaoba 15 welia

rekordi!

30 wlis asaks gadacilebis

Semdeg kidev 6 slemtituli

moigo rekordi!

Tixnarze mogebuli matCeb-

is 92% rekordi!

Tixnarze zedized mogebuli

81 matCi rekordi!

rafa nadalma 10-jer da

metjer moigo sami didi turniri:

„rolan garosi” (13), monte-

karlo (11) da barselona (11)

rekordi!

espanels 21-jer hyavs dama-

rcxebuli msoflios moqmedi

pirveli Cognebi rekordi!

amas davumatoT, rom rojer

federers pirad SexvedrebSi

24:16 ugebs.

ase rom, seriozuli dilemaa:

vin aris yvela drois udi-

adesi?

amasobaSi ki qalebSi 19 wlis

polonelma iga Sviontekma ip-

irvela. safrangeTis axalma

gmirma turniri ise daasrula,

rom setic ar waugia. finalSi

ki me-4 nomrad ganTesil sofia

kenins sulac saaTsa da 21 wuT-

Si mouRo bolo 6:4, 6:1.

Svionteki pirveli polone-

lia, romelmac didi muzaradis

turniri moigo da amiT isto-

riaSi Caewera. gamarjvebulma

1.892.160 amerikuli dolari mi-

iRo.

aRsaniSnavia, rom aqamde

mTeli karieris manZilze Svionteks

mxolod 1.106.808 dola-

ri hqonda gamomuSavebuli. is

meore CogburTeli qalia, vinc

„rolan garosi” setis waugeblad

moigo. pirvelad es Jus-

tin eninma 2007 wels moaxerxa.

19 wlis gogona aseve meorea

asakiT monika seleSis Semdeg,

vinc safrangeTSi imarjva. 1992

wels seleSma warmatebas 18 wl-

isa da 187 dRis asakSi miaRwia.

samwliani pauzis Semdeg

„rolan garosi” ganuTesavma

CogburTelma moigo. Svionteki,

romelic 53-e Cogani iyo, ukve

me-14 poziciazea.

39

CIAN MAGENTA YALLOW BLACK

kviris horoskopi

verZi

mSvidi periodi gelodebaT. es aris dasvenebisa

da sayvarel adamianebTan urTier-

Tobis dro. araviTar SemTxvevaSi aravis

daupirispirdeT, piriqiT – SerigdiT da

mSvidoba daamyareT! kargi iqneba, Tu axla

met dros dauTmobT Tqvens hobis. ar SegeSindeT

fulis daxarjvis: ukan dagibrundebaT.

kuro

rac ar unda moxdes axla Tqvens cxovrebaSi,

SeinarCuneT simSvide. garegnulad mSvidad

iyaviT da gamarjvebuli darCebiT.

samsaxurSi gadauWreli sakiTxebi geqnebaT,

romelTa dasrulebac rekomendebulia

kviris bolomde. SabaT-kviras kargad daisveneT.

tyupi

Tu gindaT saqme kargad gakeTdes, Tavad

gaakeTeT! saxlSi moTminebiT aRiWurveT,

raTa axloblebTan seriozuli Cxubi ar mogivideT.

umjobesia materialuri problemebi

ar daagrovoT. sesxis aReba gWirdebaT?

banks mimarTeT.

kirCxibi

dros yvelafrisTvis gamonaxavT, risi

gakeTebac gsurdaT. yvelaze ararealuri

gegmebis ganxorcielebasac ki SeZlebT. 17

oqtombers SegiZliaT elodoT moulodnel

cvlilebebs ukeTesobisken. yuradReba miaqcieT

wvrilmanebs yvelaferSi, sakuTari

garegnobis CaTvliT. iyaviT mowodebis sima-

Rleze!

lomi

maqsimalurad gamoiyeneT Tqveni niWi! es

is droa, rodesac SegiZliaT sakuTari Sesa-

Zleblobebi aCvenoT. kolegebTan urTier-

Tobisas Tavi SeikaveT: SesaZloa Semcvlels

gimzadeben. SeecadeT ufro damTmobi iyoT

Tqveni sayvareli adamianis gverdiT, daicxreT

siamaye. es Tqvens urTierTobas gadaarCens.

qalwuli

axla SegiZliaT sxvadasxva sferoSi mosinjoT

Zalebi. am periodSi samsaxuris Secvla

xelsayrelia. Tu raRac ar gamova, ixelmZRvaneleT

lozungiT: „rac xdeba, yvelaferi

ukeTesobiskenaa mimarTuli“. am kviraSi

umjobesia TviTmfrinaviT mogzaurobaze

uari TqvaT, imgzavreT saxmeleTo transportiT.

saswori

am periodis ganmavlobaSi SeiZleba

araerTxel aRmoCndeT uxerxul mdgomareobaSi.

reagireba moaxdineT iumoriT, rom

Rirseulad gamoiyurebodeT. mosalodnelia

fuladi bonusebi xelfasis danamatis an

premiis saxiT, magram maSinve nu daxarjavT

fuls impulsur SenaZenebze, perspeqtivas

gadaxedeT.


yovelkvireuli gazeTi gamodis kviraSi

erTxel, samSabaTobiT da vrceldeba

saqarTvelos mTel teritoriaze

yovelkvireuli

gamodis samSabaTobiT fasi 2 lari

pirveli gverdi:

1 sm 2 _ 15 lari, maqsimaluri SekveTa 300 sm 2 ;

meore-mesame gverdebi:

1 sm 2 _ 3 lari;

Sida gverdebi:

1 sm 2 _ 1 lari;

bolos wina gverdi:

1sm 2 _2 lari;

bolo gverdi:

1sm 2 _ 3 lari,

maqsimaluri SekveTa _ mTeli gverdi;

mTliani gverdis saerTo farTobia _

1000 sm 2;

reklama CanarTis saxiT:

A3 3 formatis erT nomerSi ganTavseba _ 500 lari;

A4 4 formatis erT nomerSi ganTavseba _ 300 lari;

mis.: gudauris 7; 599 19 19 10 (Savlego cixelaSvili)

kviris horoskopi

morieli

nu daaCqarebT movlenebs da Tavadac nu

iCqarebT! saguldagulod SeamowmeT yvela

dokumenti, romelsac SeavsebT. 18 ricxvi

xelsayrelia sasiyvarulo SexvedrebisTvis.

sityvebi, romlebsac am dRes Tqveni rCeuli

getyviT, wminda wylis simarTle iqneba.

mSvildosani

ar TqvaT is, raSic darwmunebuli ar

xarT. Tqveni sityvebi SeiZleba momavalSi

Tqven winaaRmdeg gamoiyenon. Tqveni gegmebi

jerjerobiT saidumlod SeinaxeT. SeecadeT

saxlSi ar gamoiketoT: SegiZliaT sadme

gaemgzavroT srulfasovani gantvirTvis-

Tvis an SabaT-kvira TqvenTvis uCveulo da

saintereso garemoSi gaataroT.

Txis rqa

samsaxurSi, bolos da bolos, sakuTari

Tavis warmoCenis Sansi geqnebaT. iyaviT yvelaferSi

mowinave: es imoqmedebs Tqvens

fulad jildoze. ufro Tavdajerebuli

iyaviT! ai, saxlSi ki piriqiTaa: konfliqtebisa

da Cxubis Tavidan asacileblad axla

Rirs, ufro rbili iyoT da daTmobaze waxvideT

– dagifasdebaT.

merwyuli

momaval rCeulTan Sexvedra bedisgan,

didi albaTobiT, swored am periodSi gelodebaT.

nu ifiqrebT vinmeze, rom masTan

araferi gamogivaT! araCveulebrivi ganwyoba

geqnebaT – gamoiyeneT Tqveni amgvari

SemarTeba rTuli sakiTxebis gadasaWrelad.

frTxilad iyaviT „molipul“ gzaze: aucileblad

daizRvieT Tavi.

Tevzebi

es kvira ioli ar iqneba, magram momaval-

Si mas aucileblad gaixsenebT, rogorc

fasdaudebel gamocdilebas. sasiamovno

movlenebi 17 oqtombridan daiwyeba. axlobel

adamianebTan Sexvedrebis iniciatori

Tavad iyaviT, samsaxurSi ki naklebi ilaparakeT.

1 aSS dolari

3.2197

1 evro

3.8002

1 girvanqa sterlingi

4.1898

100 rusuli rubli

4.1787

amindi

samSabaTi

oTxSabaTi

xuTSabaTi

paraskevi

SabaTi

kvira

orSabaTi

Tbilisi

20-22 0

22-24 0

23-25 0

22-24 0

23-25 0

22-24 0

20-21 0

quTaisi

30-32 0

31-33 0

26-28 0

25-27 0

27-28 0

23-25 0

19-21 0

baTumi

26-28 0

27-30 0

24-26 0

23-25 0

22-24 0

21-23 0

19-21 0

zugdidi

31-33 0

29-30 0

25-27 0

24-26 0

26-28 0

24-26 0

20-22 0

gori

21-23 0

22-24 0

21-23 0

22-24 0

23-25 0

20-22 0

17-20 0

Telavi

22-24 0

23-25 0

22-24 0

23-24 0

25-27 0

23-25 0

21-23 0

foTi

28-30 0

24-26 0

26-28 0

23-25 0

24-26 0

23-25 0

21-22 0

40

saredaqcio kolegia

yvela ufleba daculia;

`qronika+~-Si gamoqveynebuli

masalebis nebismieri saxiT

gamoyeneba da gavrceleba

redaqciasTan SeuTanxmeblad

akrZalulia!

gazeTSi R niSniT gamoqveynebul

masalebs aqvT sareklamo

xasiaTi; maTSi gamoxatuli pozicia

SeiZleba ar daemTxves

redaqciis Sexedulebas.

mTavari redaqtori eliso kilaZe (599 17 12 12)

marsagiSvili Sorena 599 92 16 22

rostiaSvili Tamar 577 10 07 06

SatakiSvili rezo 597 94 42 50

mosiaSvili maka 599 97 25 55

injgia nene 591 71 39 98

sakaruli giorgi 555 42 42 81

qemokliZe levan 593 16 01 40

mamulaZe xviCa 598 41 12 26

deviZe daviT

stilisti rusudan quTaTelaZe;

redaqciis misamarTi:

Tbilisi, gudauris N3,

pirveli sarTuli, bina 4;

tel.: 294 69 77;

sareklamo ganyofileba,

gavrcelebis samsaxuri

Savlego cixelaSvili 599 19 19 10

gazeTi ibeWdeba stambaSi `tori~

ISSN 2346-8025

294 69 77;

qronikaqronika@gmail.com

40 N24 (326) 13.10-.19.10.2020 w.

qronika+326

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