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2<br />
saerTo gazeTi #43 (227), 10-16.X, 2012 w.<br />
redaqtoris<br />
sveti<br />
zogisTvis 1<br />
oqtomberi arCevnebSigamarjvebis<br />
dRea, piradad<br />
CemTvis qar-<br />
Tveli xalxis<br />
mier gasuli saukunis<br />
90-ian<br />
wlebSi dawyebuli<br />
erovnul-ganmaTavisuflebeli<br />
brZolis gagrZeleba.<br />
zogisTvis 1 oqtomberi xelisuflebis<br />
Secvlis dRea, piradad<br />
CemTvis ucxoelTa mier marTuli<br />
Sinauri dampyroblebisgan saqarTvelos<br />
ganTavisuflebis mcdeloba.<br />
mcdelobao imitom vambob, rom<br />
is, rac moxda, jer mxolod dasawyisia<br />
da mTavari brZolebi win<br />
gviZevs.<br />
_ politikaSi imitom, movedi,<br />
rom samSoblo mekargebodao, _<br />
brZana batonma <strong>biZina</strong> ivaniSvilma.<br />
1 oqtomberi dasakargad ganwiruli<br />
samSoblos dabrunebisTvis<br />
brZolis pirveli etapia.<br />
warmoudgeneli gmiroba Caidina<br />
qarTvelma xalxma 1 oqtombers,<br />
Tumca mas bolomde gamarjvebis<br />
saSualeba mainc ar misces da<br />
sadRac Sua gzaze gaaCeres _<br />
kvlav moipares xmebi, gaayalbes,<br />
gadaweres, gadmoweres Sedegebi<br />
da qveyana orxelisuflebianobis-<br />
Tvis gaswires, rac igivea qveyana<br />
asafeTqeblad gamzadebul naRmze<br />
Sesva. erT qarqaSSi ori xmali ar<br />
Caidebao, _ naTqvamia.<br />
Cven axla gvaiZuleben, rogorme<br />
CavtenoT ori xmali erT qarqaSSi,<br />
Tanac im situaciaSi, roca<br />
naRmze vzivarT da erTma mkveTrma<br />
moZraobam, SeiZleba, haerSi agvitanos.<br />
situacia, romelSic dRes vimyofebiT,<br />
Zalian hgavs 1991-92<br />
wlebSi ganviTarebul movlenebs,<br />
roca dinebis sawinaaRmdegod<br />
curvis braldebiT ganaCeni gamogvitanes<br />
da damoukideblobisa da<br />
Tavisuflebis gzaze Semdgari saqarTvelo<br />
isev da isev ugunuri<br />
qarTvelebis xeliT dagvangrevines.<br />
maSin dawyebuli omi saqarTvelos<br />
winaaRmdeg jer ar damTavrebula...<br />
vaxtang xarCilava<br />
vveesaubrreebiT baton<br />
petre mamraZes<br />
`saerTo gazeTi~<br />
mTavari redaqtori: vaxtang xarCilava<br />
gamomcemeli: Sps sagamomcemlo centri `saerTo sityva~<br />
mis: Tbilisi, aRmaSeneblis 164;<br />
tel.: 2 14 40 19; 2 34 28 97<br />
_ batono petre, `nacionalurma moZraobam~<br />
dedaqalaqi mTlianad waago, magram<br />
regionebSi warmatebebs miaRwia. ram gamoiwvia<br />
aseTi marcxi, yofila ki aseTi SemTxvevebi<br />
Tundac sxva qveynebSi?<br />
_ aseTi SemTxvevebi yofila Zvel mahmadianur<br />
qveynebSi, rodesac qalaqebSi<br />
cxovrobda elita, Zalauflebas ki inarCunebda<br />
xelisufali provinciebidan mosuli<br />
meomari tomebis saSualebiT. es Zvel dro-<br />
Si, iyo aseT SemTxvevebi agreTve samxreT<br />
amerikis qveynebSi diqtatoruli reJimis<br />
dros.<br />
faqtobrivad, aseT SemTxvevebSi, xelisufalni<br />
eyrdnobodnen im Zalas provinciebSi,<br />
romelTac informacia qveynis mdgomareobaze<br />
ar misdiodaT. ase moxda CvenSic.<br />
soflad mcxovrebi adamiani arafriT ar<br />
gaxlavT naklebi qalaqad macxovrebelze,<br />
garda imisa, rom informaciis naklebobas<br />
ganicdis. magaliTisaTvis getyviT, rodesac<br />
marokoSi socializmi damyarda, momTabare<br />
tomebi Sediodnen socialistur partiaSi,<br />
mTeli tomi msxverplSewirvac xdeboda, da<br />
ase uerTdebodnen mmarTvel partias. sxva-<br />
TaSoris, samxreT amerikaSi momxdara isic,<br />
rom diqtatorebs gadautaniaT dedaqalaqebi<br />
im qalaqebSi, romelTac ufro endobodnen.<br />
ase rom, msgavsi raRacebi moxda Cven-<br />
Tanac, Tumca, saakaSvils yvelaferi Seutrialda<br />
piriqiT, fuWad Caiara misma mcdelobebma.<br />
ar unda daviviwyoT erTi mTavari, Cven<br />
xelisuflebas, gamzadebuli darCa masobrivi<br />
gayalbebis seriozuli manqana, romelic<br />
mcire, provinciul adgilebSi aamuSaves.<br />
yvelgan ar imuSava am meTodma.<br />
isic nu dagvaviwydeba, rom sruliad<br />
araTanabar pirobebSi momdinareobda winasaarCevno<br />
kampania da rac mTavaria mTeli es<br />
wlebi, sadac iyo xelisufalTa gavlena,<br />
miuxedavad samarTliani arCevnebisa, iq mainc<br />
moeqca xalxi `nacebis~ gavlenaSi. amas<br />
daemata isic, rom arCevnebi dainiSna orSabaTs,<br />
samuSao dRes, riTac am mTavrobam moicila<br />
is amomrCeveli, vinc maTze ganawyenebuli<br />
iyo da maT xmas ar miscemda. aba er-<br />
Ti scodnodaT rom ucxoeTSi mcxovrebi<br />
qarTvelebi `nacionalebs~ aZlevdnen xmas<br />
ase moiqceodnen? piriqiT, did fulsac daxarjavdnen,<br />
karg organizaciasac gaukeTebdnen<br />
da yvelafers gaakeTebdnen imisaTvis,<br />
rom maTi xma ar dakarguliyo, kargad<br />
icodnen rogori protestia maT mimarT<br />
qarTul diasporebSi da Camoiciles. sul<br />
amboben, rom 1 milionamde saqarTvelos moqalaqea<br />
aqedan wasuli, ucxoeTSi maTi<br />
ricxvi ki 40 000 mde daiyvanes. arCevneb-<br />
Si `<strong>biZina</strong> <strong>ivaniSvili</strong> _ qarTulma ocnebam~<br />
ver aiRo xmebis ori mesamedi anu sakonstitucio<br />
umravlesoba. rom ara amdeni xelisSemSleli<br />
faqtori, dRes mas 100-ze<br />
meti adgili eqneboda parlamentSi.<br />
_ raSi SeuSlis es xels `qarTuli<br />
ocnebis~ gunds?<br />
_ es xels SeuSlis imaSi, rom SeiZleba<br />
ver moxerxdes axali saparlamento res-<br />
publikis wyobaze gadasvla, konstituciuri<br />
cvlilebebi, prezidentis impiCmenti da<br />
a.S. Tumca, is rac `qarTulma ocnebam~ SeZlo,<br />
marTlac daujerebelia. prezidentma<br />
saakaSvilma Tavad gamoacxada, rom gadadis<br />
opoziciaSi, amas aravin ar eloda.<br />
informacias ver vamowmeb, magram aris<br />
varaudi, rom maT darwmunebaSi am meTodiT<br />
wasvlaze, usisxlod yvelafris gadabarebaze,<br />
didi roli Seasrules amerikelebma,<br />
xatovnad rom vTqvaT, maT `diplomatiuri<br />
cocxebi~ da`diplomatiuri xelketebi~<br />
gamoiyenes saakaSvilis dasarwmuneblad.<br />
isic minda davZino rom aSS-is elCi<br />
iyo is erTaderTi diplomati Cvens qveyanaSi,<br />
romelic elCad dainiSna saqarTveloSi,<br />
Camovida da prezidenti saakaSvili<br />
mas ar Sexvda.<br />
_ risi SiSi hqonda saakaSvils?<br />
_ yvelafris, racionalurad amas kaci<br />
ver gaigebs, magram me kargad vicnob<br />
prezidents da mjera, rom is kargad<br />
mixvda vin iyo es pirovneba. iyo aseve<br />
erTi SemTxvevac, roca evropidan Camovida<br />
seriozuli politikuri figura, romelmac<br />
mas Secdomebsa Tu araswor qme-<br />
debebze miuTiTa. Tumca, es xdeboda absoluturad<br />
koreqtulad. saRamos is saakaSvilma<br />
dapatiJa sadilze sxva politikur<br />
figurebTan erTad, Tumca, es pirovneba misive<br />
brZanebiT saRamos vaxSamze ar SeuSves!<br />
saakaSvils sastikad eSinia simarTlis. aseve<br />
daiTxova aqedan hiter bodeni _ romlis<br />
atanac ar hqonda. es sruli sigiJeebia, magram<br />
faqtia!<br />
_ hilari klintoni, arCevnebis Semdgom,<br />
esaubra rogorc <strong>biZina</strong> ivaniSvils,<br />
aseve, saakaSvils, xom ar iyo es garkveulwilad<br />
rekomendaciebi aSS-s mxridan?<br />
_ CvenTan, sazogadoebis did nawil-<br />
Si, damkvidrda mcdari Sexeduleba da<br />
termini _`vaSintonis obkomi~, romelic<br />
garkveul rekomendaciebs sTavazobs<br />
Cvens qveyanas. es gaxlavT sruliad WeSmaritebas<br />
acdenili azri. aSS konstituciis<br />
Sesabamisad, eubneba Tavis partniorebs,<br />
rom me vicav am wesebs Tu normaluri<br />
urTierToba gvinda, magram Tu<br />
mas vinme eubneba, rom surs iyos am qveynis<br />
megobari, iyos natoSi da a.S. da<br />
amavdroulad aris avtoritari _ aseTi<br />
urTierToba maTTvis miuRebelia!<br />
_ kote kublaSvilma ganacxada, rom<br />
Cvens mosamarTles Sexvda `ocnebis~<br />
warmomadgeneli ojaxSi da ar davuSvebT,<br />
rom Cvens patiosan da miukerZoebel sasamarTloze<br />
vinmem iqonios gavlenao. vinme<br />
kidev fiqrobs, rom dRes saqarTveloSi sasamarTlo<br />
miukerZoebelia?<br />
_ Zmebi kublaSvilebi arian didi<br />
damnaSaeveebi, oriveni. sasamarTlo<br />
sistema wlebis ganmavlobaSi iyo sadisturi<br />
sistemis sayrdeni, romelic<br />
morCilad, laparakis gareSe, asrulebda<br />
prokuraturisa da Sss-s nebismieri<br />
gadawyvetilebas. saqme mivida im kazusamde,<br />
rom gamamarTlebeli ganaCeni<br />
dgeboda 0,1 procentze naklebi qveyanaSi!<br />
totalitarul reJimSi, breJnevis<br />
dros iyo 20-22 procenti. ucxoelebi<br />
aRniSnavdnen, rom qveyanaSi patimrebi<br />
mzad arian daibralon nebismier<br />
braldeba, raTa aicilon sastiki mopyroba<br />
cixeebSi. da amas yvelafers kublaSvili<br />
xels afarebda da reagirebas ar axdenda.<br />
is gadaiqca seriozul damnaSaved,<br />
amitom sul male, misi da misi Zmis Cadenili<br />
saqmeebi Ria msjelobis sagani gaxdeba.<br />
Zmebi mravlad iyvnen `nacionalebis~ xelisuflebaSi:<br />
kublaSvilebi, axalaiebi,<br />
qardavebi _ ar iyo es klanuri midgoma?<br />
ver xedavda amas `patiosani~ sasamarTlo?<br />
kaxa benduqiZem ganacxada arCevnebis<br />
Semdeg, opoziciam imitom gaimarjva saqar-<br />
gazeTi xelmZRvanelobs Tavisufali presis principiT.<br />
SesaZloa, avtoris pozicia ar eTanxmebodes redaqciis azrs.<br />
informaciis sizusteze pasuxismgebelia avtori. gasaCivreba<br />
SesaZlebelia masalis gamoqveynebidan erTi kviris vadaSi.<br />
Semosuli masalebi avtorebs ar ubrundeba.<br />
regist. #202375349; uak (UDC) 070.23 (479.22) s-158 <br />
TveloSi, rom saakaSvilma daamtkica, rom<br />
demokratiuli qveyana aaSenao... Tavad benduqiZe<br />
aris is pirovneba, romelmac saqar-<br />
Tvelos didi zarali da ziani miayena. me<br />
mafrTxilebdnen rusi politologebi, rom<br />
am adamians, arcerTi dRe ar uwarmoebia<br />
biznesi ruseTSi, mxolod da mxolod<br />
qrTamiT iSova fuli.<br />
_ rogoria ucxoeli politikosebisa<br />
amerikelebma saakaSvilis dasaSoSmineblad<br />
`diplomatiuri cocxebi~ da<br />
`diplomatiuri xelketebi~ gamoiyenes...<br />
da diplomatebis azri saqarTveloSi momxdar<br />
samTavrobo cvlilebebze?<br />
_ isini sakmaod kmayofilebi arian<br />
imiT, rom procesebi mSvidobianad warimar-<br />
Ta, `qveynis SeSlili diqtatori~ ki, ase<br />
eZaxdnen isini saakaSvils, Tavis `sadist~<br />
jgufTan erTad TandaTan Sordeba xelisuflebas.<br />
ar daakleben mas qebas da didebas<br />
imitom, rom prezidenti araprognozirebadi<br />
pirovnebaa. konstituciiT mas 1 weli<br />
arsebobis ufleba aqvs. Tumca, davinaxeT,<br />
rom TanamSromlobisaTvis isini ukve<br />
aqcents akeTeben ivaniSvilze da mas xvdebian.<br />
_ rogor SeiZleba ganviTardes politikuri<br />
procesebi axlo momavalSi Cvens<br />
qveyanaSi? 1 weli kvlav darCeba saakaSvili<br />
prezidentad? xom ar elodeba qveyanas politikuri<br />
krizisi?<br />
_ konstituciiT, momavali wlis oqtombramde,<br />
mas darCenis ufleba aqvs. qveyanaSi<br />
politikuri krizisi ar amgonia moxdes,<br />
radganac saakaSvilis yofil xelisuflebas<br />
amis survili ukve aRar aqvs. amis<br />
Taobaze ukve ganacxades bokeriamac da baqraZemac.<br />
aqve minda davZino, rom baqraZes da<br />
garkveul jgufs parlamentarebisas, rom<br />
ar gaetexaT parlamentaris fici, qveyanaSi<br />
`sadisturi sistema~ ver iarsebebda da 12,5<br />
miliardi dolari sagareo vali qveyanas ar<br />
daugrovdeboda. umZimesi biujeti daaxvedres<br />
axal xelisuflebas. Tu Seecdeba yo-<br />
fili xelisufleba politikuri krizisis<br />
Seqmnas qveyanaSi, ufro uares dReSi Cavardebian.<br />
cixis kadrebis Cvenebis Semdeg<br />
ucxoeli politikosebi xSirad meubnebodnen<br />
maTze, rom nuTu ver xvdebian, rom politikurad<br />
ukve mkvdrebi ariano? rogorc<br />
saakaSvils ise mis gunds imdeni danaSauli<br />
aqvT Cadenili! mjera, rom yvela isini pasuxs<br />
ageben qveynisa da eris winaSe Cadenil<br />
danaSaulebebze. mTavaria samoqalaqo sazogadoeba<br />
ar modundes.<br />
eTer kasreliSvili<br />
am niSniT aRniSnulia sareklamo masalebi.
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