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CIAN MAGENTA YALLOW BLACK
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
yovelkvireuli gazeTi
COVID 19-is
meore talRa
saqarTveloSi
gamodis samSabaTobiT N16 (318) 21.07
07.20
.2020
fasi 2 lari
gv. 32
zurab
meliqiSvili:
`SaqaraSvilis
tragedia im
ganukiTxaobis
Sedegia,
romelic
`ocnebam~
daamkvidra!~
`oqros mowmis~
pirveli Cveneba
gv. 10
irma
nadiraSvili:
`qarTuli
ocnebis~
politikuri
iaraRi
Sss da
prokuraturaa~
gv. 12
gv. 2
`am manqanis danaxvisTanave me, giorgi
SaqaraSvili da vaxtang axvlediani gaviqeciT
mdinare aragvze gamavali xidis mimarTulebiT.
ukan am dros davinaxe, rom am manqanidan
gadmovida ramdenime pirovneba da gamogvekida...~
giorgi vaSaZe: `ivaniSvilma `ocnebis~
saarCevno Stabis ufrosad gavrilovi daniSna~
gv. 16
vasil mamulaSvili:
lia muxaSavria:
giorgi gelxauri:
gv. 4
`SaqaraSvilis
saqmeSi~ SesaZloa,
realuri
damnaSaveebi gaqrnen~
N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
gv. 8
`SaqaraSvilis
ojaxi saSineli
realobis winaSe
aRmoCndeba!~
gv. 6
`samwuxaroa, rom
SaqaraSvilis
biZas kiTxvebi
ar uCndeba!~
1
eliso kilaZe
599 17 12 12
Tveze meti gavida giorgi SaqaraSvilis
sastiki mkvlelobidan. Tveze metia, gamoZieba mimdinareobs
da jer isev ar arsebobs pasuxi kiTxvaze, _ vin mokla
giorgi SaqaraSvili? ar viciT mkvlelobis motivi, ar vic-
iT, gvami miitanes Tu giorgi SemTxvevis adgilze daixrCo da
mTavari, _ Tveze metia, media arkvevs, vin mfarvelobs mkvlelebs?!
„qronika+~ agrZelebs giorgi SaqaraSvilis mkvlelo-
bis saqmis masalebis gamoqveynebas. amjerad gTavazobT
braldebis mxaris mowmis _ guram amirxanaSvilis Cvenebas.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
`oqros mowmis~
guram amirxanaSvili
gamokiTxuli piris mier mo-
wodebuli informacia:
amJamad var studenti, daaxloebiT
erTi kviris ukan me da
Cemi megobari giorgi SaqaraSvili
Cvenma saerTo nacnobma
lizi nadiraZem dagvpatiJa Tavisi
megobris, ani gabeCavas dabadebis
dReze. ana gabeCavas dabadebis
dRe aris 19 ivniss. miuxedavad
amisa, rogorc lizim
2020 wlis 18 ivniss socialuri
qselis feisbuqis meSveobiT momwera
da miTxra, ani gabeCavas
dabadebis dRis wveuleba dabadebis
dRis wina dRes, 18 ivniss
iwyeboda da saRamos 19:00 saaTze
unda mivsuliyaviT q. mcxeTaSi,
narekvavis dasaxlebaSi mdebare
sadResaswaulo centrSi. me da
Cemi megobari giorgi SaqaraSvili
wavediT q. mcxeTaSi, Sps
„liderfudis” qarxnis mimdebare
teritoriaze arsebul sadResaswaulo
centrSi. iqneboda
daaxloebiT 21:00 saaTi, rodesac
me da giorgi SaqaraSvili
mivediT ana gabeCavas wveulebaze.
rodesac SevediT SenobaSi,
wveulebaze Sekrebili iyo daaxloebiT
30 adamiani, romelTagan
nawili iyo biWebi, xolo nawili
_ gogonebi. me stumrebidan mxolod
vicnobdi lizi nadiraZes,
ana gabeCavas, mariam xatiskacs da
irakli waqaZes. aqve ganvmartav,
rom me ana gabeCava gavicani lizi
nadiraZis mxridan, mariam
xatiskaci aris Cemi mezobeli,
xolo irakli waqaZe aris Cemi
yofili gundeli. Cven erTad
vTamaSobdiT fexburTs. rodesac
mivediT, ani gabeCavas stumrebs
ukve dawyebuli hqondaT
qeifi da umetesoba ukve sakmaod
nasvami iyo. amasTan, stumari bi-
Webis nawili iqceoda agresiulad.
me da giorgi SaqaraSvils
lizi nadiraZem gviTxra, rom
yuradReba ar migveqcia im biWebisTvis,
romlebic agresiulad
iqceodnen da maT ar avyolodiT.
Cveni misvlidan daaxloebiT erT
saaTSi, rodesac me da giorgi
SaqaraSvili vimyofebodiT SenobaSi,
ezodan mogvesma Cxubis
xma. Cven mivxvdiT, rom stumrebi
erTmaneTSi Cxubobdnen da situaciis
gasarkvevad gareT gavediT.
rodesac Senobis ezoSi gavediT,
aravin iyo da ezos garedan
ismoda Cxubis xma. me da giorgi
SaqaraSvili gavediT Senobis
ezodan, rkinis WiSkris gavliT
da davinaxeT, rom ezos WiSkris
mimdebared, supermarket „liderfudis”
gverdiT arsebul kibeebTan,
daaxloebiT aTi kaci
erTmaneTSi Cxubobda da iyo CoCqoli
da yvirili. me maTgan verc
erTi ver vicani, Tumca miuxedavad
amisa, me da giorgi SaqaraSvili
mivediT da vcdilobdiT
maT gaSvelebas. daaxloebiT ori
wuTis Semdgom aRniSnulma pirovnebebma
Sewyvites Cxubi, ris
Semdgomac moCxubari CemTvis
ucnobi eqvsi biWi Casxda CemTvis
ucnobi markis, ferisa da sax.
nomris mqone avtomanqanaSi, romelTagan
erT-erTs saxeze etyoboda,
rom nacemi iyo da wavidnen.
me ar daminaxavs, Tu ra mimarTulebiT
wavidnen. aqve ganvmartav,
rom ramdenadac SevamCnie,
moCxubari biWebidan dazianebebi
aReniSneboda saxis
areSi erT-erTs, kerZod, saxeze
aReniSneboda sisxlis msgavsi
laqebi. amis Semdgom me da giorgi
SaqaraSvili kvlav SevbrundiT
wveulebaze. maleve stumrebis
nawilma gadavwyviteT, rom
wavsuliyaviT sofel lisSi Cveni
megobris, irakli waqaZis saxlSi.
me, giorgi SaqaraSvili, vaxtang
axvlediani, wveulebis
dijei konstantine igive koko,
romlis gvaric ar vici, fotografi
saxelad iakobi da vinme
gvarad qaTamaZe wamovediT fexiT
avtobanis gverdiT Tbilisis
mimarTulebiT, raTa taqsi
gagveCerebina da wavsuliyaviT
lisze. am dros dagvewia ori
biWi, romlebic iyvnen naxsenebi
eqvsi moCxubari biWis megobrebi,
qaTamaZes sTxoves telefonis
nomeri da uTxres, rom momdevno
dReebSi Seexmianebodnen. amis
Semdgom gavagrZeleT gza da gadavkveTeT
aragvis xidi da mivemarTebodiT
q. Tbilisis mimarTulebiT.
rodesac gavcdiT
xids, Cven wamogvewia CemTvis
ucnobi avtomanqana, savaraudod,
vercxlisferi, romelmac gagvi-
Cera win. am manqanidan gadmovida
daaxloebiT eqvsi pirovneba
da CvenTan erTad myof qaTamaZes
dauwyo Cxubi da cema. amis
gamo me da giorgi SaqaraSvili,
vaxtang axvlediani da dijei
koko gaviqeciT ukan, xidis mimarTulebiT
da moSorebiT gavCerdiT.
Cven vxedavdiT, rogor
urtyamdnen manqanidan gadmosuli
pirebi qaTamaZes, romelic
waiqca miwaze. rodesac qaTamaZe
Zirs waiqca, daanebes Tavi, Casxdnen
am manqanaSi da wavidnen
Tbilisis mimarTulebiT. rodesac
qaTamaZes fizikurad uswordebodnen,
erT-erTi sruli
aRnagobis, sxvebze fizikurad
didi pirovneba damamaxsovrda,
romelic mZRolis gverdiTa
savarZlidan gadmovida.
xsenebuli avtomanqaniT mosuli
eqvsi agresiuli mamakaci rodesac
wavida, Cven mivuaxlovdiT
qaTamaZes. igi isev Zirs egdo,
qaTamaZes saxidan mosdioda sisxli,
Cven igi wamovayeneT fexze.
am dros kvlav movida raRac manqana
da CvenTan gaCerda. me ar
daminaxavs, Tu romeli mxridan
movida avtomaqana, aseve ar maxsovs,
ra markis avtomanqana iyo.
am manqanis danaxvisTanave me,
giorgi SaqaraSvili da vaxtang
axvlediani gaviqeciT mdinare
`am manqanis danaxvisTanave me, giorgi
SaqaraSvili da vaxtang axvlediani
gaviqeciT mdinare aragvze gamavali
xidis mimarTulebiT. ukan am dros
davinaxe, rom am manqanidan gadmovida
ramdenime pirovneba da gamogvekida...~
aragvze gamavali xidis mimarTulebiT.
ukan am dros davinaxe,
rom am manqanidan gadmovida
ramdenime pirovneba da gamogvekida.
me, giorgi SaqaraSvili
da vaxtang axvlediani
gaviqeciT ukan, gadavirbineT
TiTqmis diagonalze xidi, giorgi
SaqaraSvili mirboda win, Semdeg
miyveboda axvlediani da
ukan mivdevdi me. gadavirbineT
dasavleTis mimarTulebiT arsebuli
avtobanic, ra drosac
giorgi SaqaraSvilma da vaxtang
axvledianma Cauxvies marjvena
mxares, xidis qveS gamaval gzaze,
xolo me pirdapir gaviqeci, ra
drosac gzis gverdiTa marjvena
mxares davinaxe Zveli feradi
Senoba da gaviqeci Senobis mimarTulebiT,
gavedi Senobis ukan
da gadavxti buCqebSi. vinaidan
buCqebi iyo ekliani, nakawrebis
saxiT miviRe dazianebebi marjvena
da marcxena xelis mtevnebze,
aseve marcxena fexis muxlze da
aseve mucelze. rodesac buCqeb-
Si viyavi Cavardnili, momiaxlovda
naxsenebi meore manqanidan
gadmosuli da Cvenken gamoqceuli
sami biWi, romelTac avuxseni
da vuTxari, rom arafer SuaSi
viyavi da maT mxolod vaSvelebdi
kibeebTan momxdari Cxubis
dros. aRniSnulze erT-erTma
daadastura Cemi neitraluri
moqmedeba Cxubis dros da miTxres,
rom Cavmjdariyavi maT manqanaSi.
me davTanxmdi maT moTxovnas
da Cavjeqi am manqanis ukana
salonSi. sanam manqanaSi Cavjdebodi,
rodesac buCqebidan amovedi,
sam naxseneb biWs kidev
sami daemata, romeli pirovnebebic
Casxdnen am manqanaSi. sul,
2 N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
saerTo jamSi, iyvnen eqvsni da
meSvide viyavi me. da wamovediT
Tbilisis mimarTulebiT. me maT
vTxove, rom aragvze gamavali xidis
mimdebared gaeCerebinaT,
raTa Camovsuliyavi, radgan
msurda, rom momeZebna Cemi bavSvobis
megobari giorgi SaqaraSvili.
me maT mkiTxes, Tu ratom
unda Camovsuliyavi aRniSnul
teritoriaze, Tumca me maT davumale
mizezi, radgan Tuki
gaigebdnen realur mizezs, isinic
gaCerdebodnen. aRniSnulma
pirovnebebma me ar gamiCeres avtomanqana
da Cemi nebis sawinaaRmdegod
wamomiyvanes q. Tbilisis
mimarTulebiT da Camomsves
q. TbilisSi, didubis avtosadguris
mimdebared, „liderbeTsa”
da „lukoilis” benzingasamarT
sadguris mimdebared.
vinaidan giorgi SaqaraSvils ar
hqonda mobiluri, me mas ver davureke.
amis Semdgom me gavaCere
taqsi da mZRols vTxove, rom mesargebla
misi telefoniT, radgan
telefoni arc me mqonda. Cemi
telefoni Cxubamde vaTxove kokos
da taqsis mZRolma momca
Tavisi telefoni, riTac maSinve
davureke irakli waqaZes, movuyevi
momxdari faqtis Sesaxeb
da vTxove, rom saswrafod dabrunebuliyo
ukan da moeZebna
giorgi SaqaraSvili. aRniSnulze
irakli waqaZe damTanxmda. dilas
miTxra, rom sami avtomanqaniT
wavidnen irakli da Tavisi megobrebi
giorgi SaqaraSvilis mosaZebnad,
Tumca uSedegod. rodesac
vazisubanSi saxlSi mivedi,
velodebodi, rodis damikav-
Sirdeboda giorgi SaqaraSvili.
giorgi SaqaraSvilis adgilsamyofeli
am dromde CemTvis ucnobia.
aqve gangimartavT, rom Semi-
Zlia giCvenoT is adgilebi, sadac
moxda zemoT aRniSnuli incidenti
da aseve Tanaxma var, monawileoba
miviRo sagamoZiebo eqsperimentSi.
saqmis irgvliv am etapze
sxva raime dasamatebeli ar
maqvs.
kiTxva: TqvenTan da giorgi
SaqaraSvilTan erTad kidev vin
aSvelebda Cxubis monawileebs?
pasuxi: vinaidan iyo Rame da
N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
pirveli Cveneba
amasTan iyo CoCqoli da aurzauri,
me ar daminaxavs, CvenTan er-
Tad kidev vin aSvelebda Cxubis
monawileebs.
kiTxva: Cxubis Sedegad miiReT
Tu ara dazianebebi sxeulze?
dadebiT SemTxvevaSi ra dazianebebia?
pasuxi: Cxubis Sedegad me dazianebebi
ar mimiRia, vinaidan
CemTvis fizikuri Seuracxyofa
aravis mouyenebia.
kiTxva: Cxubis dros xom ar
daginaxavT, konkretulad vin vis
ayenebda fizikur Seuracxyofas?
pasuxi: Tavdapirvelad dawyebul
CxubSi, romelic moxda im
adgilis mimdebared, sadac vqeifobdiT,
iyo cudi ganaTeba, CoCqoli
da aurzauri. me ar daminaxavs,
vin vis urtyamda.
kiTxva: ra ecva giorgi
SaqaraSvils 2020 wlis 18 ivniss
wveulebaze?
pasuxi: giorgi SaqaraSvils
2020 wlis 18 ivniss ecva Savi
feris naWris Sorti, da lurji
feris perangi _ „saroCka”, xolo
fexze ecva Savi feris TeTrZiriani
klasikuri stilis fexsacmeli.
aqve ganvmartav, rom giorgi
SaqaraSvils welze ekeTa
mcire zomis Savi feris naWris
CanTa, romel CanTaSic mas moTavsebuli
hqonda savarcxeli da
Tmis Jele, romel CanTazec
vuTxari, sanam wveulebaze mividodiT,
rad undoda, razec gamca
pasuxi, rom Tmis Jele da savarcxeli
maqvs moTavsebulio.
kiTxva: ra gecvaT 2020 wlis
18 ivniss ana gabeCavas wveuleb-
is dros?
pasuxi: tanT mecva Savi feris
jinsis Sarvali, lurji feris
moklemklaviani maisuri da lurji
kubikebiani perangi. aRniSnuli
tansacmeli me maqvs saxlSi
da SemiZlia warmogidginoT.
kiTxva: xom ar gagirecxavT
tansacmeli, romelic Tqven 2020
wlis 18 ivniss ana gabeCavas
wveulebaze gecvaT?
pasuxi: tansacmeli, romelic
me 2020 wlis 18 ivniss ani gabeCavas
wveulebaze mecva, ar vici,
garecxa Tu ara dedaCemma.
kiTxva: rodis miiReT da-
zianebebi sxeulze da saWiroebT
Tu ara, gsurT Tu ara, rom CagitardeT
sasamarTlo-samedici-
no eqspertiza?
pasuxi: zemoaRniSnuli dazianebebi
miviRe im dros, rodesac
vcdilobdi buCqebSi damalvas.
kiTxva: gaqvs Tu ara informacia,
Tavdapirvelad vis Soris
moxda Cxubi?
pasuxi: CemTvis ucnobia, Tu
vis Soris moxda Tavdapirvelad
Cxubi.
kiTxva: hqonda Tu ara giorgi
SaqaraSvils mobiluri tele-
foni?
pasuxi: giorgi SaqaraSvils
mobiluri telefoni ar hqonda.
kiTxva: wveulebis maxloblad
Tavdapirveli Cxubis damTavrebisas
naxsenebi eqvsi pirovneba
rodesac Cajda manqanaSi da wavida,
SeZlebT Tu ara maT amocnobas?
dadebiT SemTxvevaSi ra
niSan-TvisebiT?
pasuxi: manqanis saWesTan rom
dajda, iyo daaxloebiT 20 wlamde
asakis saSualoze maRali,
susti aRnagobis, muqi feris
TmiT, TeTri kanis feriT, susti
pirissaxis. naxvis SemTxvevaSi amovicnob.
mZRolis gverdiT vin
dajda, ar maxsovs, xolo ukan
Camjadari oTxi pirovnebidan
maxsovs ori pirovneba, romelTagan
erT-erTs ecva TeTri feris
perangi, grZelsaxeloiani, hqonda
Ria feris sakmaod didi Tma
CamoSlil mdgomareobaSi, susti
aRnagobis saSualoze dabali simaRlis,
daaxloebiT 172 sm. simaRlis
Txeli Ria feris wveriT,
susti saxis, TeTri feris
kaniT, xolo meore pirovneba iyo
dabali simaRlis, susti aRnagobis,
muqi feris mokled SeWrili
TmebiT da susti pirissaxis moyvanilobiTkiTxva:
rodesac fexiT mid-
iodiT Tbilisis mimarTulebiT
avtobanze, Tavdapirvelad ro-
desac dagewiaT msubuqi avto-
manqana, saidanac gadmovidnen
pirovnebebi da qaTamaZes dauwyes
cema, SegiZliaT Tu ara am-
oicnoT?
pasuxi: rodesac avtomanqana
gaaCeres, gadmovidnen da qaTamaZes
dauwyes cema, viyavi moSorebiT,
Tumca davinaxe, rom mZRolis
gverdiT savarZlidan gadmosuli
pirovneba iyo SedarebiT
sruli, asakiT daaxloebiT 28-29
wlis sruli aRnagobis, mokled
SeWrili TmiT, mrgvali pirissaxis,
romelsac xelze majis zemoT
hqonda tatuireba saSualo zomis,
Tumca romel xelze, ver vixseneb.
kiTxva: meore manqana rodesac
movida, ratom gaiqeciT?
pasuxi: miuxedavad imisa, me,
giorgi SaqaraSvili da vaxtang
axvlediani ar SevTanxmebulvarT
erToblivad gaqcevaze, me piradad
mivxvdi, rom Cvenc dagviwyebdnen
cemas, radgan gadmosvlisTanave
garkveuli manZili
Cvenken gamoiqca agresiulad,
ris gamoc saxeze ver davimaxsovre,
radgan ukan mogvdevdnen.
kiTxva: rodesac buCqebSi Ca-
vardi, saidan mixvdi, rom dad-
evnebuli pirebi dageZebdnen?
pasuxi: buCqebSi Cavardnis
dros viyavi Cumad da mesmoda
xmebi, _ sad wavidneno? da Zebnis
dros damadga Tavze sami pirovneba,
romlebsac avuxseni, rom
me arafer SuaSi viyavi, ra drosac
movida igive manqana da iqidan
gadmovida sami pirovneba,
ris Semdegac wamiyvanes Tbilis-
Si, rogorc ukve avxseni.
rodesac buCqebidan samma
pirovnebam amomiyvana da Semdeg
manqaniT movida kidev sami pirovneba,
maTi amocnoba SemiZlia naxvis
SemTxvevaSi, Tumca gvarobi-
Ti niSnebis dasaxelebaze ar unda
avCqarde, raTa SecdomaSi ar minda
Sevide, ris gamoc mWirdeba
kargad dafiqreba da SemdgomSi
damatebiT dazustebulad mogawvdiT
aRniSnul informacias. saqmis
irgvliv am etapze sxva raime
damatebiTi informaciis mowodeba
ar SemiZlia. raime garemoebebis
gaxsnebis SemTxvevaSi gacnobebT
damatebiT.
3
nene injgia
591 71 39 98
jer kidev burusiT moculia
da uamravi pasuxgaucemeli kiTxvaa 19 wlis giorgi SaqaraSvi-
lis savaraudo mkvlelobis saqmeze. is 4-dRiani Ziebis Semdeg
22 ivniss mdinare aragvSi gardacvlili ipoves. prokuratur-
is informaciiT, SaqaraSvilis dakargvas win uZRoda or jgufs
Soris dapirispireba. am droisTvis Cxubis epizodze 17 piria
dakavebuli. maT winaswari patimroba SeefardaT. garda amisa,
gamoZiebas daemata axali muxli damamZimebel garemoebebSi
jgufurad ganxorcielebuli ganzrax mkvleloba, Tumca bra-
li am muxliT jer aravis wayenebia.
ra mtkicebulebebi arsebobs
„SaqaraSvilis saqmeSi”? gaxda Tu
ara gamoZieba sazogadoebis emo-
ciuri „dakveTis” Semsrulebeli?
ramdenad realuria moragbeebis
mimarT bralis damZimeba?
aRniSnuli Temebis Sesaxeb
„qronika+~ „SaqaraSvilis saqmeze”
dakavebuli moragbeebis advokat
vasil mamulaSvils esaubra:
_ batono vasil, rogor moxv-
da piradi cxovrebis amsaxveli
kadrebi TqvenTan da iyo Tu ara
es faqti gamoZiebis konkretuli
gzavnili?
_ Cven 6 ivliss warvadgineT
moTxovna da im momentisTvis yvela
SesaZlo mtkicebulebis gadmocema
moviTxoveT. vinaidan es informacia
moculobiTi iyo, Cvens
kompiuterSi braldebis mxaris
SesaZlo mtkicebulebebi 07 ivliss
Cagviweres. meore dRes, 08 ivliss,
rodesac daviwyeT informaciis
gacnoba, maSinve SevamCnieT, rom
gadmocemuli informaciis nawili
warmoadgenda piradi cxovrebis
saidumloebas, ris Semdgomac,
daaxloebiT, 23:00 saaTze CavediT
mcxeTis policiis departamentSi
da moviTxoveT Cvens kompiuterSi
am kadrebis ganadgureba, radgan
ssk 157-e prima muxli iTvaliswinebs
valdebulebas: Tu aseTi
kadrebi vinmes xelSi aRmoCndeba,
valdebulia ganacxados policia-
Si. cxadia, Cven es davicaviT. iyo
dava imaze, rom maT am pasuxismgeblobis
aReba ar surdaT. iyo SemoTavazeba,
rom SeTanxmebis safu-
Zvelze oqmiT gagveformebina. me
vTxovdi aRiarebas, rom es maTi
braleulobiT moxda, razedac
uari gviTxres, ris Semdegac warvadgine
gancxadeba, rom es mtkicebulebebi
ganadgurebuliyo. meore
dRes ki daiwyo aRniSnul faqtze
sisxlis samarTlis 157-e muxliT
gamoZieba. gamovikiTxeT mowmis saxiT
_ policielebis mxridan am kadrebis
SesaZlo Senaxvasa da gavrcelebasTan
dakavSirebiT. CavabareT
kompiuteri mtkicebulebis
ganadgurebis mizniT da albaT
Tbilisis prokuratura Sesabamisad
ireagirebs. es Canaweri exeboda
erT-erTi monawile piris megobar
gogos, romelic saerTod SemxeblobaSi
ar aris saqmesTan. es informacia
Cven gavigeT policielebisgan.
vfiqrob, rom am SemTxveva-
Si saqme gvaqvs araprofesionalizmTan
da arakompetenturobas-
Tan. ar gamovricxav imasac, rom
policielebs es kadrebi arc unaxavT,
ise gadmogvces an SeiZleba
naxes da miiCnies, rom vinaidan
eqspertizam es waSlili failebi
mobiluridan amoiRo, es iyo saqmis
Semadgeneli nawili da am masalis
gadmoucemloba piriqiT _ maT
problemas Seuqmnida. faqtia, rom
piradi cxovrebis amsaxveli kadrebis
(romelic saqmesTan ar aris
kavSirSi) Senaxva aucileblobas ar
warmoadgens da aucileblad unda
ganadgurdes.
_ ra Semxebloba aqvT Tqveni
dacvis qveS myofebs am saqmesTan?
_ maT aranairi Semxebloba ar
gaaCniaT momxdarTan. konfliqti
moxda da es adamianebi mividnen am
sakiTxis gasarkvevad. ra moiazreba
garkvevaSi, es SefasebiTia. gar-
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
kveuli danaSaulebebi dasjadia
danaSaulis momzadebis procesSi.
magaliTad, dekanoz giorgi mamalaZes
edavebodnen danaSaulis
momzadebas; aris danaSaulebi, romelic
dasjadia mcdelobidanve.
magaliTad, pirma yvelaferi gaake-
Ta danaSaulis Casadenad, magram
Sedegi ar dadga misgan damoukidebeli
mizezebis gamo. am SemTxveva-
Si, davuSvaT, am adamianebs hqondaT
maTi cemis mcdeloba. Zaladobas
ar SeiZleba, mcdeloba hqondes,
Zaladoba materialuri saxis danaSaulia
da ara _ formaluri, anu
Sedegs aqvs aseT SemTxvevaSi mniSvneloba.
rogorc vici, Cemi dacvis
qveS myofebs am pirebis cemis ganzraxvac
ki ar hqoniaT. amaze ki
pasuxs gvcems amirxanaSvilis mimarT
ganxorcielebuli qceva. maT
ar miuyenebiaT dazianeba amirxanaSvilisTvis,
Tumca Tu cemis ganzraxvas
miviCnevT, es samarTlebrivad
ar aris danaSauli. me vicav im
pirebs, romlebsac Tavisuflebis
aRkveTas edavebian, rom maT amirxanaSvils
aRukveTes Tavisufleba.
Tavad amirxanaSvili ambobs, rom
misTvis Tavisufleba ar aRukveTiaT
da rom TbilisSi wamoiyvanes. is
yovelgvari Zaladobis gareSe Camoiyvanes
TbilisSi. erTi mtkicebulebac
ar arsebobs, rom vinmes
Tavisufleba aRukveTes. aseTi
braldeba amirxanaSvilma romc
Tqvas, am adamianebma Tavisufleba
aRmikveToso, kanonis Tanaxmad ganaCeni
efuZneba erTmaneTTan SeTanxmebul
aSkara da damajerebel
mtkicebulebaTa erTobliobas,
anu minimum ori mtkicebuleba unda
iyos, romelic erTmaneTTan Se-
Tanxmebuli iqneba. rogorc amirxanaSvilis
Cvenebaa mtkicebuleba,
aseve braldebuli 6 piris Cvenebac
mtkicebulebaa. davuSvaT, 6 adamiani
ambobs, rom maT Tavisufleba
ar aRukveTiaT, amirxanaSvilic
igives ambobs, aseT SemTxvevaSi nebismieri
mosamarTle da Tundac
ara iuristi adamianic gamamarTlebel
ganaCens gamoitans. ganvixiloT
meore varianti: 6 adamiani
ambobs, rom danaSauli ar Caudenia,
amirxanaSvili ki ambobs, rom
Caidines. es ar iqneba sakmarisi,
radgan mxolod erTi dazaralebulis
Cveneba ar kmara. magaliTad,
axla me rom davreko policiaSi da
Tqvenze ganvacxado, rom damemuqreT,
amis safuZvelze rom dagakavon,
es xom ar iqneba sakmarisi?
amitomac aris damatebiTi mtkicebulebebi
saWiro. ase rom,
amirxanaSvili ras ityvis, amas mniSvneloba
aRar aqvs, radgan ukve
ganvmarteT, rom misi Cveneba 75-e
muxlis Tanaxmad dauSvebeli mtkicebulebaa.
gasagebia, gamoZiebis
procesi rTulia. yvela saqmeze
suraTis aRdgena srulad ver moxdeba
Tu ar gvaqvs videoCanawerebi.
Tu videoCanawerebi ar gvaqvs,
fazlis awyobis msgavsad nel-nela
unda SevavsoT carieli adgilebi,
magram xSir SemTxvevaSi mniSvnelovani
detali ar gagvaCnia. am konkretul
saqmeze raRac suraTi aRadgines,
magram obieqturi WeSmaritebis
aRdgena ver moaxerxes. es
SeiZleba gamoZiebis bralic ar iyos
da am saqmeSi warmatebuli qveynebis
gamomZieblebic rom Cavr-
ToT, imaTac ver gamoiZion. bevri
`17 piris dakaveba
saqmea gamouZiebeli, maT Soris,
germaniasa da amerikis SeerTebul
StatebSi. xSirad saqme isea Sesrulebuli,
mtkicebulebebi ganadgurebuli,
rom sruli suraTis
aRdgena SeuZlebelia, magram am
saqmeze Cven vnaxeT araprofesionalizmi,
romelic Sinagan saqmeTa
ministris moadgilem gaamarTla,
rom kameris Canawerebi ki ar wagviSlia,
waiSalao. aseve mowmis daki-
Txvis procesi winaswar unda daigegmoos,
damatebiTi gamokiTxva
ki damatebiTi garemoebebis warmoSobis
SemTxvevaSi xdeba. amaTma
dakiTxes mowmeebi, Semdeg raRac
gaaxsendaT, daibares da igive SekiTxvebi
dausves, mowmeebma igive
kiTxvas mizanmimarTulad Tu gaucnobiereblad
sxvagvari pasuxebi
gasces, _ es araprofesionalizmia.
_ garda imisa, rom am SemTxvevaSi
araprofesionalizmi vlindeba,
gaqvT Tu ara eWvi gamoZiebis
mxridan mowmeze zewolis ganx-
orcielebaze?
_ magaliTad, arasrulwlovan
z.x.-s SemTxvevaSi maqvs gancda, rom
mis mimarT ganxorcielda zewola,
radgan mis CvenebaSi iseTi informaciebia
Setanili, romelic fizikurad
ver iqneboda mowmis mier
vasil mamulaSvili:
`SaqaraSvilis
saqmeSi~
SesaZloa,
realuri
damnaSaveebi
gaqrnen~
miwodebuli. magaliTad, erT-erTi
mowme ambobs, sacemrad mivsdevdiT,
ver davewieT, magram vicodiT, sad
imalebodnen, Semdeg wamovediTo.
logikurad warmovidginoT, adamians
sacemrad misdevdnen, icodnen,
sadac iyvnen da dazianebas ar miayenebdnen?!
_ es araswori informaciaa.
aravin icoda, vin sad imaleboda.
vinc naxes, es iyo amirxanaSvili,
romelic Tavisi nebiT wamoiyvanes
TbilisSi. amirxanaSvilze
ki imitom ar iZalades, rom incidentis
monawile ar iyoo. Tu amirxanaSvili
am motiviT ar scemes,
maSin SaqaraSvilic ar iyo incidentis
monawile da logikurad, arc
mas scemdnen. dadgenilia, rom SaqaraSvils
amirxanaSvilis msgavsad
aravisTvis dazianeba ar miuyenebia.
anu amirxanaSvili daindes da SaqaraSvili
mosaklavad gaimetes?! _
es xom alogikuria.
_ dReis mdgomareobiT, ra xelSesaxebi
mtkicebulebebi arse-
bobs saqmeSi?
_ faqtia, rom dReis mdgomareobiT
aranairi xelSesaxebi mtkicebulebebi
ar gvaqvs imis saTqmelad,
rom saxezea mkvleloba. saubrobdnen
imaze, rom eqspertizis daskvniT
dadginda: SaqaraSvili aris na-
`am saqmeSi 5 piria, romelic SeiZleba flobdes
gamoZiebisTvis mniSvnelovan informacias. eseni
arian: amirxanaSvili, axvlediani, qaTamaZe,
RibraZe, bregvaZe. arc erTi am piris mier
mowodebuli informaciiT ar dgindeba, rom
`toita qamriSi~ myof pirebs komunikacia
hqondaT SaqaraSvilTan. Sesabamisad, Tu
Semxeblobas es 5 mowme ar gvidasturebs, aravin
icis, SaqaraSvils vinme Sexvda Tu ara~
cemi, wyalSi damxrCvali da a. S. es
msjelobebi aris ufro samoqalaqo
doneze arsebuli versiebi,
romelsac saerTo araferi aqvs
saqmesTan.
_ ratom?
_ Cven eqspertizis daskvniT
gavigeT, rom giorgi SaqaraSvilis
gardacvalebis mizezi aris asfiqsia
wyalSi daxrCobT. daskvnaSi
weria, rom aw gardacvlils hqonda
msubuqi saxis mravlobiTi dazianeba,
romelic sicocxlisdroindelia
da SeiZleboda drois
mokle periodSi ganviTarebuliyo.
aseve mas aqvs gardacvalebis Semdeg
miyenebuli dazianebebi. gamo-
Ziebis versia ar aris, rom gardacvlili
nacemia, amaze sazogadoebis
nawili saubrobs. cema, mkvleloba,
Zaladoba _ es aris samarTlebrivi
terminebi, romlebic
eqspertizis daskvnaSi arc am da
arc sxva saqmeze ver Caiwereba,
rom, magaliTad, piri moklulia an
nacemia. eqspertiziT iwereba, rom
piri gardacvlilia da ara moklulia,
aseve iwereba, rom pirs
aqvs dazianebebi da ara is, rom piri
nacemia. realurad, samarTlebrivi
terminebi eqspertizis saqme
ar aris. dazianebebi pirebma cemis
Sedegad miayenes Tu ara, amis dadgenas
sxva saxis kompleqsuri eqspertiza
sWirdeba, romelic CaniSnulia
da dasmulia kiTxva: riT Sei-
Zleba ganviTarebuliyo, konkretulad,
im saxis dazianebebi, romelic
gardacvlils aqvs miyenebuli?
sasamarTlo-samedicino eqspertizaSi
weria, rom SesaZlebelia, es
dazianebebi ganviTarebuliyo
mkvrivi blagvi sagnis zemoqmedebis
Sedegad, Tumca es ar gvaZlevs
imis Tqmis saSualebas, rom gar-
4 N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
sazogadoebis emociis Sedegi iyo~
dacvlili vinmem scema. magaliTad,
SesaZloa, saqme exebodes ubedur
SemTxvevas, pirma vardnis Semdeg
mkvriv, myar saganTan urTierTSejaxebis
Sedegad miiRos dazianeba,
anu aseT SemTxvevaSi is piria myar
saganTan moqmedebaSi, romelmac
dazianeba miiRo. an meore SemTxveva,
roca mkvrivi, myari sagania pir-
Tan moqmedebaSi, ris Sedegadac
piri iRebs dazianebas. es aris am
konkretul saqmeze Semdgomi kvlevis
sagani da Sesabamisi kiTxvebic
aris dasmuli: SesaZlebelia Tu
ara gardacvlilis dazianebebi
ganviTarebuliyo vardnis an dagorebis
Sedegad? sanam am kiTxvebze
pasuxebi ar gveqneba, gardacvlili
scemes Tu daaxrCves, amas ver
davaskvniT. anu Cven ar gvaqvs mtkicebuleba,
romelic pirTa qmedebebs
daadasturebs. cema TavisTavad
moqmedebas gulisxmobs, amitom
pirTa qmedebebi unda warmoCindes
da am SemTxvevaSi Sedegia
gardacvaleba. Sesabamisad, unda
dadgindes mizez-Sedegobrivi kav-
Siri, anu pirTa qmedebebma gamoiwvia
Tu ara es konkretuli Sedegi,
am SemTxvevaSi, SaqaraSvilis
gardacvaleba.
_ ra SeiZleba iyos pirTa
qmedebebis damadasturebeli mt-
kicebulebebi?
_ aseT saqmeebze yvelaze mniSvnelovani
mtkicebulebebia mowme-
Ta Cvenebebi. am saqmeSi mowmeTa
Cvenebebi araerTxel Seicvala, Sesabamisad,
sandoobis kuTxiT kritikulad
ver SevafasebT. mowmeTa
Cvenebebi, garkveulwilad, meryevi
mtkicebulebaa. SeiZleba, me da
Tqven erTi da igive qmedeba sxvadasxvanairad
aRviqvaT, Tumca arsebiTad
sxvadasxvanairad ver aRviqvamT.
magaliTad, manqanas orive
davinaxavT, Tumca SeiZleba sxvadasxvanairad
davaxasiaToT. pirvelia
aRqmis, meore _ damuSavebis,
mesame _ gadacemis procesi. am saqmis
mowmeebma ra dainaxes, rogor
daamuSaves da ra gadasces, Sesa-
Zloa, sxvadasxvanairad mogviyvnen,
magram adamians Tu Tavisufleba
aRukveTes da scemes, am faqts sxadasxvanairad
ver aRiqvamen. am
saqmeSi 5 piria, romelic SeiZleba
flobdes gamoZiebisTvis mniSvnelovan
informacias. eseni arian:
amirxanaSvili, axvlediani, qaTamaZe,
RibraZe, bregvaZe. arc erTi
am piris mier mowodebuli informaciiT
ar dgindeba, rom „toita
qamriSi” myof pirebs komunikacia
hqondaT SaqaraSvilTan. Sesabamisad,
Tu Semxeblobas es 5 mowme ar
gvidasturebs, aravin icis, SaqaraSvils
vinme Sexvda Tu ara. eseni
amboben, rom es adamianebi gamoyvnen
maT da maleve ipoves amirxanaSvili,
ris Semdegac is waiyvanes.
gamoZieba swored imitom aris Cix-
Si, rom verc erTi mowmisgan ver
iRebs informacias, ufro sworad,
im versiaze ver gadis am informaciiT,
rac maT undaT an ar undaT,
amas dadasturebiT ver vityvi.
faqtia, rom mowmeebi ver exmarebian
gamoZiebas.
_ ratom cvlian mowmeebi
Cvenebebs? vis interesSi SeiZle-
ba iyos es?
_ mowmeTa Cvenebebi meryevia,
maTi obieqturoba, Tanmimdevruloba,
damajerebloba da sandooba
sasamarTloSic fasdeba. am saqmis
mowmeebis Cvenebebi arc Tanmimdevrulia,
arc damajarebeli da
arc sandoa, isini obieqtur informacias
ar gvaZleven. yvela mowmes
erTi da igive kiTxvas ramden-
`me vicav im pirebs, romlebsac Tavisuflebis aRkveTas edavebian, rom maT
amirxanaSvils aRukveTes Tavisufleba. Tavad amirxanaSvili ambobs, rom
misTvis Tavisufleba ar aRukveTiaT da rom TbilisSi wamoiyvanes. is
yovelgvari Zaladobis gareSe Camoiyvanes TbilisSi. erTi mtkicebulebac ar
arsebobs, rom vinmes Tavisufleba aRukveTes~
N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
ime gamokiTvisas sxvadasxva pasuxi
aqvs. es gvaZlevs im suraTs, rom
Cven gvaqvs saproceso kodeqsis 75-
e muxli, romlis Tanaxmadac „Tu
gamokiTxviT mowodebul informaciasa
da sasamarTloSi micemul
Cvenebas Soris an sasamarTloSi miwodebul
Cvenebebs Soris arsebi-
Ti winaaRmdegobebia, mxares Seu-
Zlia daayenos Suamdgomloba, am
mtkicebulebis (mowmis Cvenebis)
dauSveblad cnobasTan dakavSirebiT.
es nawili rom ganvixiloT, magaliTad,
amirxanaSvils pirvel
CvenebaSi uweria, rom Tavisufleba
aRukveTes, Semdeg 3 CvenebaSi
uweria, rom misTvis Tavisufleba
ar aRukveTiaT, Sesamisad, misi sasamarTloSi
micemuli Cveneba upirobod
winaaRmdegobaSi mova manamde
arsebul gamokiTxvis oqmTan,
ris Semdgomac Cven Suamdgomlobas
davayenebT am Cvenebis dauSveblobaze
da sasamarTlom unda
Seafasos, ramdenad aris es arsebiTi
winaaRmdegoba. Zalian bevr
saqmeze mosamarTle aseT SemTxvevaSi
ganaCenSi ambobs, rom aRniSnuli
mtkicebuleba aris urTierTsawinaaRmdego
da sasamarTlo
ver daeyrdnoba am mtkicebulebas.
am saqmeSic, Tu saqmis arsebiTi
ganxilvis etapamde mivediT, mosamarTle
gvetyvis, rom am 5 mowmis
dauSvebeli mtkicebulebis safuZvelze
gamamtyunebel ganaCens ver
gamoitans.
_ sxva ra saxis mtkicebulebe-
bi SeiZleba gamovlindes, riTac
saqmis mimarTuleba arsebiTad
SeiZleba ganviTardes an Seicva-
los?
_ dReis mdgomareobiT Cven gvaqvs
sasamarTlo-samedicino eqspertizis
daskvna, amoRebuli „borjomis”
qilis qimiuri da biologiuri
eqpertiza, riTac araniri kvali
ar amovida, Tumca velodebiT
aTeulobiT eqspertizas, riTac
Teoriulad SesaZloa mkvlelobis
versiis ganviTareba, ramac konkretuli
pirebis mimarT braldebis
wardgena gamoiwvios an SeiZleba es
saqme darCes ise, rogorc aris, anu
brali veravis mimarT ver waradginon.
viciT, rom saqmeSi monawile
yvela pirisgan, maT Soris, Cemi
dacvis qveS myofebisgan, aRebulia
nimuSebi. Tu romelime piris
tansacmelze aRmoCnda gardacvlilis
biologiuri masala, aseT
SemTxvevaSi SegviZlia vivaraudoT,
rom am pirebs Soris garkveuli
Semxebloba iyo. SesaZloa, mxolod
Semxebloba ar iyos mkvlelobis
mTavari Semadgeneli nawili, ma-
`fotografi aragulwrfeli mowmea, romelic
iseve cruobs, rogorc sxva pirebi. faqtia, rom
is Sinagan saqmeTa saministros maRalCinosan
nino giorgobianis naTesavia. ramdenad aris
misi qcevebi giorgobianis gavlenis qveS, es ar
vici, gamoZiebam unda daadginos. vici, rom
bregvaZe ar aris gulwrfeli~
gram gamoZieba am SemTxvevaSi ukve
win aris. magaliTad, Tu dadgindeba,
rom gardacvalebis adgilas
arsebuli niadagis Semadgeneli
nawili da saqmeSi monawile romelime
piris fexsacmlidan aRebuli
miwis niadagis nimuSi identuria, es
niSnavs imas, rom es piri gvamis aRmoCenis
adgilas imyofeboda. amitom
vambobT, rom jer ar arsebobs
braldebis wardgenis safuZveli,
Teoriulad imis SesaZleblobac
aris, rom am saqmeSi gamoCndnen
sruliad sxva figurantebi, es yvelaferi
am eqspertizis Sedegebidan
gamomdinare unda dadgindes.
dRevandeli mocemulobiT saqmeSi
xelSesaxebi araferi devs, garda
imisa, rom Cven gvaqvs informacia,
mowmeebi raRacas malaven. Cemi
dacvis qveS myofebi Tanxmobas acxadeben
yvela sagamoZiebo moqmedebaze.
piriqiT, axla Cven vcdilobT,
mowmeebi gamovkiTxoT nebayoflobiT
an sasamarTloSi moviTxovT
maT gamokiTxvas. gvaqvs winadadeba,
rom es braldebulebi waviyvanoT
SemTxvevis adgilze da iqve Semowmdes
video Tu audio fiqsaciiT,
amasac ar akeTebs gamoZieba,
Tumca Cven amis ufleba gvaqvs da
gavakeTebT.
_ Tqven araerTxel aRniSneT,
rom gamoZieba ama Tu im sagamo-
Ziebo moqmedebas ar axorcielebs.
riT axsniT amas, vis sasargeblod
moqmedeben?
_ gamoZiebam naCqarevi gadawyvetileba
miiRo, roca 17 adamians
sxvadasxva muxliT braldeba wauyena.
saxelmwifo SesaZloa, am
saqmeze sazogadoebis mxridan wamosuli
temperaturis dastabilurebas
ecada, magram iuridiulad
es ar iyo swori gadawyvetileba.
aranairi mtkicebulebebi ar arsebobda,
rom es adamianebi daekavebinaT
da patimroba gamoeyenebinaT.
ar mgonia, erTi SemTxveva mainc
iyos, roca arasrulwlovnis mimarT,
romelsac Zaladoba edeba
bralad, aRkveTis RonisZiebad patimroba
iyos SerCeuli. arasrulwlovnebis
SemTxvevaSi sxva standartia,
Cven ki vnaxeT, rom sasamarTlom
yvelas mimarT erTi
standartiT ixelmZRvanela. isini
ecadnen, rom sazogadoebaze efeqti
moexdinaT 17 adamianis dakavebiT.
aseTi tipis saqmeze am raodenobiT
piris dakaveba ar maxsendeba.
am pirebis dakavebiT sazogadoebis
emociebs gauwies angariSi.
es ar gadauwyvetia iqs gamomZiebels,
es maRal doneze gadawyda, _
darwmunebuli var, rom amaSi
CarTuli iyvnen mTavari prokuo-
ri da is pirebi, romlebic samarTlebrivi
kuTxiT aminds qmnian.
winasaarCevno periodia da am pirebis
dakavebiT xelisufleba sazogadoebis
gaRizianebis dabalansebas
Seecada, Tumca sazogadoeba
kvlav ukmayofiloa: 17 piri daakaves,
magram kiTxvebi kvlav pasuxgaucemelia.
1000 kaci romc daakavon,
es ar niSnavs samarTlianobis
aRdgenas. erTia dakaveba, meore
_ ganaCeni, am mtkicebulebebiT,
darwmunebuli var, ganaCeni
ver dadgeba. 109-e muxlis nawil-
Si, jgufurad ganzrax mkvleloba
damamZiebel garemoebaSi brali
ver waredginebaT.
_ ra roli aqvs am saqmeSi fo-
tograf iakob bregvaZes?
_ fotografi aragulwrfeli
mowmea, romelic iseve cruobs,
rogorc sxva pirebi. faqtia, rom
is Sinagan saqmeTa saministros ma-
RalCinosan nino giorgobianis
naTesavia. ramdenad aris misi qcevebi
giorgobianis gavlenis qveS, es
ar vici, gamoZiebam unda daadginos.
vici, rom bregvaZe ar aris
gulwrfeli. is orjer gamoikiTxa,
Tumca imaze ar saubrobs, rom TbilisSi
Camosvlis Semdeg Temqaze
monawile pirebTan erTad qeifi
gaagrZela, man Tqva, rom saxlSi
wavida. bregvaZe Tavis CvenebaSi ambobs,
rom rodesac meore manqana
movida, 10 wuTis ganmavlobaSi
„toita qamris” mZRolebi fizikur
da sityvier Seuracxyofas ayenebdnen
am pirebso, saqmeSi arsebul
videoCanawerSi Cans, rom sanam
manqana mova, es pirebi garbian.
mowmis Cveneba winaaRmdegobaSia
videoCanawerTan. ismis kiTxva, _
ratom aZlevs mowme am Cvenebas?!
aseve bregvaZe ambobs, rom 112-Si
dareka, magram misi satelefono
amonaweriT dgindeba, rom araTu
orjer dareka bregvaZem 112-Si,
aramed erTxel dafiqsirda 112-
dan ara gamavali, aramed Semomavali
zari, amasTanave 112-is zars win
uswrebs daudgenel nomerTan zari
da mcxeTis policiis samorigeosTan
komunikacia. es niSnavs, rom
mas aqvs komunikacia sxva pirTan,
im sxva pirs _ policiasTan da
policia ukavSirdeba bregvaZes,
aseve policiis moTxovniT 112
ukavSirdeba mas. garda amisa, 112-
is zarebis avTenturobis Sesaxeb
kiTxvebia: pirveli zari 19 ivniss
ganxorcielda, savaraudod, es realuri
droa, failis Seqmnis droa
00:51-ze, meore zari ki TariRdeba
30 ivnisis 23:10 saaTiT. aqedan gamomdinare,
aris eWvi, rom meore
faili Semdeg aris Cawerili. im
teritoriidan ganxorcielebulia,
daaxloebiT, 40 zari, maT Soris,
arc erTze ar aris sxva ricxvi, mxolod
112-is meore zari aris 30
ivnisiT daTariRebuli, rac gasajarovda.
Sesabamisad, am nawilSi
kiTxvebi arsebobs. Cven movismineT,
rom bregvaZis advokati irma Wkadua
eqsperimentebs Caatarebs, magram
rogor Secvlis misi eqsperimentebi
im Cvenebas, sadac bregvaZe
ambobs, rom 10 wuTis manZilze gr-
Zeldeboda Zaladobao an ra eqsperimentiT
unda Caanacvlos is,
rom misi dacvis qveS myofs 112-Tan
komunikaciamde policiis samorigeosTan
hqonda kavSiri? es aris
faqtebi, romlebsac veranairi eqsperimentiT
ver Secvlis.
_ ra molodini gaqvT am saqmeze
da ganixilavT Tu ara Tqveni
dacvis qveS myofebisTvis bralis
damZimebas?
gagrZeleba 37-e gv.
5
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
`samwuxaroa, rom SaqaraSvilis
ramdenime dRis win 19 wlis
giorgi abaSiZe
giorgi SaqaraSvilis saqmis erTerTi
figurantis, arasrulwlo-
van braldebul z.x.-s Cveneba gaxda cnobili. kerZod, gamok-
iTxvis oqmSi z.x. im sam pirs asaxelebs, romelic aragvis
xidebTan swored iqiT gaiqca, ra mimarTulebiTac giorgi
SaqaraSvili mirboda.
„...gakidebisas Cemi megobari bi-
Webi aRniSnul biWebs eZaxdnen,
raTa gaCerebuliyvnen, Tan aginebdnen
da lanZRavdnen. win mivrbodiT
me da a.q. da ukan mogvyvebodnen
danarCenebic, magram Cven
ver davewieT maT. rom davweodiT,
vcemdiT kidec. sirbilis dros
oTxive pirovnebam gadaWra gza...
erTi piri iqve arsebul jixurTan,
buCqebSi gauCinarda, meore odnav
mis qvemoT, amave gzis, amave mxares
buCqebSi daimala, xolo mesamem ki,
romelsac mokle totebiani Sarvali
„Sorti” ecva, viwro saavtomobilo
gzaze Cairbina. me da a.q.
gavCerdiT magistralTan arsebul
viwro gzaze. ramdenime wamSi Cven-
Tan moirbina vaxtang Ciqovanma, vasil
maxaraZem, nikuSa revaziSvilma
da aCiko gagniZem. vaxtangma ikiTxa,
sad wavidnen is pirebi, visac
mivdevdiT, razec me vuTxari, Tu
romeli sad gaiqca”, _ naTqvamia
mediis mier gasajaroebul z.x.-s
CvenebaSi, romelSic arasrulwlovani
braldebuli imasac ambobs,
rom vaxtang Ciqovanma vasil maxaraZes
mimarTa da uTxra, manqana
moiyvaneo. amave CvenebiT, manqanis
mimarTulebiT wavidnen vasil maxaraZe,
z.x. da nikuSa revaziSvili.
vaxtang Ciqovani, arCil gagniZe da
kidev erTi arasrulwlovani a.q. ki
adgilze darCnen.
„maT Cairbines magistralze
arsebuli xidis qveS, ra mimarTulebiTac
gaiqca is erT-erTi
biWi, romelsac Cven mivdevdiT”, _
naTqvamia z.x.-s CevenebaSi.
aqve, SegaxsenebT, rom 17 wlis
z.x. „toiota qamris” im eqvsi mgzavridan
erT-erTia, romelic mcxe-
Tis magistralze mimaval giorgi
SaqaraSvilsa da masTan myof axalgazrdebs
Tavs daesxa.
yvelafer amis miuxedavad, z.x.-
s advokati, giorgi gelxauri,
romelsac „qronika+” esaubra,
darwmunebulia, rom misi dacvis
qveS myofs 109-e muxliT brals
ver daumZimeben, rac ganzrax jgufur
mkvlelobas gulisxmobs.
amas garda, giorgi gelxauri
gveubneba, rom z.x.-s giorgi
SaqaraSvilTan Sexeba saerTod ar
hqonia da igive narekvavSi momxdar
Cxubzec TbilisSi wamosvlis Semdeg
Seityo. samagierod, arasrulwlovnis
uflebadamcvels kiTxvebi
fotograf iakob bregvaZesTan
aqvs da, minimum, is ainteresebs, Tu
ratomaa am saqmeSi Sss-s pressamsaxuris
xelmZRvanel nino giorgobianis
naTesavi dazaralebuli?
gTavazobT intervius „SaqaraSvilis
saqmeze” braldebul arasrulwlovan
z.x.-s advokat gior-
gi gelxaurTan:
_ giorgi, 19 wlis fexburTel
„giorgi SaqaraSvilis saqmeze” Za-
lian bevri iTqva da, albaT, kidev
bevri iTqmeba, magram fazli met-
naklebad rom SevkraT, kidev er-
Txel vTqvaT, dRevandeli moc-
emulobiT, tragediidan erTi
Tvis Semdeg, am saqmeze ra viciT?
_ es Zalian zogadi kiTxvaa,
radgan am saqmeze dReisTvis uamravi
masala da 19 tomi arsebobs.
_ sxvaTa Soris, vidre intervius
Caweras daviwyebdiT, gavr-
celda informacia, rom SemTxve-
vis adgilze TiTqos sisxliani
qvebi ipoves...
_ diax, sagamoZiebo moqmedebebi
isev mimdinareobs.
am droisTvis viciT, rom
SaqaraSvili asfiqsiiT _ wyalSi
daxrCobiTaa gardacvlili da sxeulze
sicocxlisdroindeli dazianebebi
aReniSneba, magram mTavari
isaa, rom ar gvaqvs kiTxvaze
pasuxi, _ es dazianebebi ra viTarebaSi
miadga?
_ miuxedavad imisa, rom ucnobia,
ra viTarebaSi miayenes gior-
gis dazianebebi, misi ojaxi, ufro
konkretulad, advokati mirian
nikolaZe, romelic gardacvlili
fexburTelis Soreuli biZaa,
iTxovs, rom „qamris” eqvsive mg-
zavrs braldeba 109-e muxliT
wauyenon, rac ganzrax jgufur
mkvlelobas iTvaliswinebs. Tqveni
dacvis qveS myofi arasrul-
wlovanic „qamriSi” ijda. mokled,
nikolaZis moTxovna im fonze,
roca mtkicebulebebi ar arse-
bobs, relevanturia?
_ ra Tqma unda, dauSvebelia,
rom „qamriSi” msxdar eqvsive pirs
brali ganzrax mkvlelobiT wauy-
`saqmeSi policiis im TanamSromelTa
gamokiTxvis oqmebi devs da isini amboben, rom
yvelaferi detalurad gamokiTxes, Tumca
bregvaZem ar uTxra. meore sakiTxia, bregvaZem
simarTle uTxra da policiam damala Tu
ara, magram sapatrulo policiis ekipaJis
wevrebi CvenebaSi weren, rom bregvaZes hkiTxes,
vin Cxubobda, magram aman upasuxa, ar
vicnobo. arada, man xom kargad icoda, rom
konfliqti agarakze daiwyo, sadac TviTonac
imyofeboda? hoda, sapatrulo policias ra
unda gaekeTebina? sxvaTa Soris, is, rom
patrulma `qebebhausis~ lokacia ver aRmoaCina
da daagvianda, sxva problemaa~
giorgi gelxauri:
`fotografi, Turme,
dazaralebuli
imitomaa, rom
moraluri ziani
miadga, magram
romel moralur
zianzea laparaki,
roca es adamiani
wavida da mTeli
Rame erToboda?!~
eno.
_ dauSvebeli ratomaa?
_ is, rom tragedia moxda da
axalgazrda biWi gardaicvala,
Zalian samwuxaroa, magram myari
mtkicebulebebisa da argumentebis
gareSe eqvsi pirisTvis bralis
109-e muxliT wayeneba, damerwmuneT,
aranaklebi tragedia iqneba.
ratom ar vuSvebT, rom am adamianebidan
romelimes 109-e muxlTan
saerTod ar hqondes kavSiri da
udanaSaulo iyos? yvelaferi es
gamoZiebam unda daadginos, anu mtkicebulebebi
moipovos da brali
mxolod amis Semdeg unda damZimdes.
mec, Tqvenc da, saerTod, yvelam
kargad viciT, rom bevri ramaa
dasadgeni. mokled, yvelaferi
isea gaSiSvlebuli, rom utyuari
mtkicebulebebiT araa dadgenili,
SaqaraSvils dazianebebi vin an ra
viTarebaSi miayena.
_ rogorc aRvniSne, tragedi-
idan erTi Tvea gasuli da axla
utyuari mtkicebulebebis mopoveba
rTuli ki ara, albaT, Seu-
Zlebelia. amis gaTvaliswinebiT,
batoni nikolaZe „qamris” eqvsive
mgzavris mimarT sisxlis samarT-
lis aRZvras mainc 109-e muxliT
ratom iTxovs?
_ samwuxaroa, rom amas iTxovs
da kidev ufro samwuxaro iqneba,
Tu sagamoZiebo samsaxuri am moTxovnas
dahyveba da „qamris” mgzavrebs
braldebas daumZimebs!
vTqvi da isev vimeoreb: aranaklebi
tragedia iqneba, Tu mtkicebulebebis
gareSe udanaSaulo
adamians ganzrax mkvlelobis
braldebas wauyeneben! xolo Tu
mtkicebulebebs ver moipoveben, es
arc braldebulebis problemaa da
arc _ sxva vinmesi. saxelmwifo imitom
arsebobs da amdeni resursi
_ sagamoZiebo organoebi Tu sxva
_ imitom aqvs, rom iseTi mtkicebulebebi
moipovos, romlebiTac
gardacvalebis viTareba da adgilic
utyuarad dadasturdeba!
_ ise, giorgi, Tqveni praqtikidan
gamomdinare, ra SegiZliaT
TqvaT _ gamoZieba mtkice-
bulebebis Zebnas SemTxvevidan
erTi Tvis Semdeg rom daiwyebs,
rames miagnebs?
_ amasTan dakavSirebiT Cemi
azri aseTia: mtkicebulebebi da
saqme im saRamosve gafuWda, roca
bregvaZem masTan misul sapatrulo
policiis TanamSromlebs simarTle
ar uambo da uTxra, rom
ar icoda, vin Cxubobda. aseve ar
uTxra, ra moxda da ganacxada, rom
TiTqos dasavleTidan avtostopiT
modioda. yvelaferi cxel
kvalze unda garkveuliyo, miT
umetes, rom im dros, roca sapatrulo
ekipaJma bregvaZe Tbilis-
Si wamoiyvana, axvlediani isev xidis
qveS imyofeboda. aseve xidis
qveS iyo is sami manqanac, romelmac
axvledians CaakiTxa.
mokled, saubari swored amazea,
rom gamoZieba im momentSive cxel
kvalze unda dawyebuliyo da dRes
SesaZloa, sxva suraTi gvqonoda!
sxvaTa Soris, es ratom ar moxda
da amis gamo pasuxs vin agebs,
gamoZiebis sagania.
_ giorgi, Tqveni versiiT, samarTaldamcvelebma
saqmis gafu-
Weba mas Semdeg daiwyes, rac gaiges,
rom bregvaZe Sss-s pressamsax-
uris xelmZRvanelis mamidaSvilis
Svili iyo?
_ amas namdvilad ver vityvi.
mtkicebulebebis gareSe vinmesken
uapelaciod ver gaviSver xels,
magram SesaZlebelia, rom gamoZiebam
yvelaferi es daadginos.
_ rogorc cnobilia, sapatrulo
ekipaJma fotografs momx-
daris detalebi ar gamokiTxa,
samagierod, taqsis funqcia Seas-
rula _ Tbilisamde wamoiyvana. es
araprofesionalizmia?
_ saqmeSi policiis im Tanam-
SromelTa gamokiTxvis oqmebi devs
da isini amboben, rom yvelaferi
detalurad gamokiTxes, Tumca
bregvaZem ar uTxra. meore sakiTx-
6 N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
biZas kiTxvebi ar uCndeba!~
ia, bregvaZem simarTle uTxra da
policiam damala Tu ara, magram
sapatrulo policiis ekipaJis wevrebi
CvenebaSi weren, rom bregvaZes
hkiTxes, vin Cxubobda, magram aman
upasuxa, ar vicnobo. arada, man xom
kargad icoda, rom konfliqti
agarakze daiwyo, sadac TviTonac
imyofeboda? hoda, sapatrulo
policias ra unda gaekeTebina?
sxvaTa Soris, is, rom patrulma
„qebebhausis” lokacia ver aRmoa-
Cina da daagvianda, sxva problemaa.
_ ar vici, zustad asea Tu ara,
magram sapatrulo policias
ufleba ar aqvs, rom manqanaSi
ucxo adamiani Caisvas, miuxedavad
imisa, am adamians daxmareba es-
aWiroeba Tu ara...
_ roca SuaRamisas moqalaqe
CxubTan dakavSirebiT Setyobinebas
akeTebs, anu ambobs, rom Cxubs
Seeswro, patrulma, sufTa
adamianurad rom vTqvaT, es moqalaqe
quCaSi unda datovos?
_ yovel SemTxvevaSi, patrulma
taqsis funqcia ar unda Seas-
rulos da, minimum, SemTxvevis
adgili daaTvalieros.
_ am SemTxvevaSi, ukve kriminaluri
policia unda misuliyo
da amaSi, ra Tqma unda, geTanxmebiT,
magram am konkretul SemTxvevaSi,
im sapatrulo ekipaJze
vsaubrob, romelic SemTxvevis
adgilas mivida da bregvaZe manqanaSi
Caisva. vinaidan bregvaZem
patruls uTxra, rom aRaraferi
xdeboda, quCaSi ar datoves da
TbilisSi Camoiyvanes.
_ giorgi, yvelafer im kiTxvebidan
gamomdinare, rac fotografis
mimarT arsebobs, Tqveni,
rogorc iuristis azri main-
teresebs, mas dazaralebulis
statusi unda hqondes?
_ sxvaTa Soris, kviras, roca
gamokiTxvaze iyo misuli, bregva-
Zem ikiTxa, _ dazaralebulis statusi
ratom maqvso? gamoZiebam
upasuxa, _ moraluri ziani mogadgao...
magram romel moralur zianzea
laparaki, roca es adamiani
wavida da mTeli Rame megobrebTan
erTad erToboda! bregvaZes
dazaralebulis statusTan kavSiri,
ra Tqma unda, ar aqvs!
_ aba, am saqmeSi ra statusi
unda hqodes _ mowmis?
_ diax, minimum, mowme unda iyos.
_ ratom?
_ imitom, rom konfliqts mxolod
aragvis xidebTan ki ara,
agarakzec Seeswro, magram gvaxsovs,
misma naTesavma pirdapir br-
Zana, bregvaZes dazaralebulis
statusi aqvs da bolomde ase dar-
Cebao. esec Zalian samwuxaro garemoebaa!
_ giorgi, ori dRis win, tv „pi-
rvelze” ganacxadeT, Cemi dacvis
qveS myofis Cveneba realobas ar
Seesabameba da masze policiis
mxridan zewola moxdao. es Tema
ganavrceT, anu zewola konkret-
ulad ris gamo xdeboda?
_ Cemi dacvis qveS myofi arasrulwlovani
policiis ganyofilebaSi
16 saaTis ganmavlobaSi hyavdaT,
rac sisxlis samarTlis saproceso
kodeqsis normebis Zalian
uxeSi darRvevaa. garda amisa, mas
mxolod fsiqologiuri ki ara,
fizikuri Seuracxyofac miayenes.
`mtkicebulebebi da saqme im saRamosve gafuWda, roca bregvaZem masTan misul
sapatrulo policiis TanamSromlebs simarTle ar uambo da uTxra, rom ar
icoda, vin Cxubobda. aseve ar uTxra, ra moxda da ganacxada, rom TiTqos
dasavleTidan avtostopiT modioda. yvelaferi cxel kvalze unda
garkveuliyo, miT umetes, rom im dros, roca sapatrulo ekipaJma bregvaZe
TbilisSi wamoiyvana, axvlediani isev xidis qveS imyofeboda. aseve xidis qveS
iyo is sami manqanac, romelmac axvledians CaakiTxa~
_ kerZod?
_ policiis ganyofilebaSi kefaSi
Caartyes, sagamoZiebo eqsperimentis
dros ki, roca gareT gamoiyvanes
_ zurgSi.
_ policielebi arasrulwlo-
van z.x.-s ratom scemdnen, misgan
ra Cvenebis miReba undodaT?
_ mas sTxovdnen, daewera da eTqva,
rom dainaxa, SaqaraSvili saiT
garboda. aseve SaqaraSvils bolomde
vin misdevda, magram yvelaferi
es realobas ar Seesabameba. sxva-
Ta Soris, isic daawerines, rom
Tbilisidan ukan, mcxeTaSi TiTqos
SurisZiebis motiviT mibrundnen.
saerTod, bevri garemoebaa, rac
realobas ar Seesabameba.
_ rogorc cnobilia, dabadebis
dReze Tqveni dacvis qveS myo-
fi z.x. mcxeTaSi Ciqovans gahyva,
ara?
_ diax.
_ icoda, rom iq konfliqti
ukve momxdari iyo?
_ agarakze imyofeboda.
_ anu rogorc ani gabeCava yveba,
narekvavSi wveulebaze Ciqovan-
Tan erTad gvian mivida?
_ diax, is saxlSi iyo da im
videokadrebSi, romlebic amoRebulia
da mediisTvisac cnobilia,
ar Cans, anu konfliqtSi ar monawileobda.
ubralod, agarakze iyo
da alkoholur sasmels svamda.
rac Seexeba mobrunebas, amasTan
dakavSirebiT naTqvami aqvs, rom
manqanebi iyo wamosayvani da pirebi
Caiyvanes.
_ giorgi, damikonkreteT:
arasrulwlovanma z.x.-m narekvav-
is agarakze momxdar konfliqtze,
miuxedavad imisa, rom is saxlidan
ar gamosula, icoda Tu ara?
_ TbilisSi rom wamovidnen, gaigo
_ Ciqovans Tavi hqonda gatexili.
_ gzaSi SurisZiebaze araferi
`am manqanaSi uSualod konfliqtis monawile
pirebi isxdnen da maTi naxva undodaT,
romlebmac scemes - Tavi gautexes da a. S.,
Tumca SaqaraSvili da amirxanaSvili am
konfliqtTan aranair kavSirSi ar iyvnen, anu
ar Cxubobdnen da maTTvis arc fizikuri ziani
miuyenebiaT. amitomac iyo, rom xma ar amoiRes
- amirxanaSvils araferi uTxres, Caiyvanes da
TbilisSi datoves. faqtia, rom amirxanaSvili
ar ucemiaT da es gamoZiebiTac dgindeba~
uTqvamT Tu aragvis xidebTan
SaqaraSvilsa da mis Tanmxleb
pirebs SemTxveviT Sexvdnen?
_ ra Tqma unda, SemTxveviT Sexvdnen.
_ Tu SemTxveviT Sexvdnen, „qam-
ri” ratom gaaCeres?
_ am manqanaSi uSualod konfliqtis
monawile pirebi isxdnen
da maTi naxva undodaT, romlebmac
scemes _ Tavi gautexes da a. S.,
Tumca SaqaraSvili da amirxanaSvili
am konfliqtTan aranair kav-
SirSi ar iyvnen, anu ar Cxubobdnen
da maTTvis arc fizikuri ziani
miuyenebiaT. amitomac iyo, rom xma
ar amoiRes _ amirxanaSvils
araferi uTxres, Caiyvanes da TbilisSi
datoves. faqtia, rom amirxanaSvili
ar ucemiaT da es gamo-
ZiebiTac dgindeba.
_ samagierod, SaqaraSvils
araTu scemes, aramed 19 wlis biWi
gardaicvala.
_ ukacravad, axla amirxanaSvilze
vsaubrob. Sesabamisad,
SaqaraSvilis mimarTac analogiuri
damokidebulebiT iqnebodnen,
radgan isini narekvavSi momxdar
konfliqtSi ar monawileobdnen.
_ Tqveni dacvis qveS myofi
arasrulwlovani CvenebaSi marTla
ambobs, rom „qamris” mgzavreb-
ma amirxanaSvils misi megobris,
anu SaqaraSvilis moZebna da TbilisSi
misi wamoyvanac SesTavaz-
es?
_ diax, manqanaSi myofma pirebma
SesTavazes, Tu survili gaqvs,
moZebne da erTad wagiyvanTo, magram
amirxanaSvilma uari ganacxada
da Tqva, ara, TbilisSi wavide-
To.
_ es detali imaze xom ar mianiSnebs,
rom aragvis xidebTan momxdar
tragediaze amirxanaSvil-
ma Zalian bevri ram icis?
_ ver getyviT, amirxanaSvilma
ra SeiZleba icodes da ra _ ara,
magram gamoZiebasTan ar Tanam-
Sromloben da arakeTilsindisier
mowmeebad gvevlinebian.
_ arakeTilsindisieri mowmee-
bi ratom arian?
_ Cvenebas araerTxel cvlian da
sakiTxavia, amis Semdeg am adamianebis
ra unda daijero?
_ giorgi, Tqveni SefasebiT,
saxelmwifos am saqmis mimarT in-
teresi imitom aqvs, rom viRacas
xels afarebs Tu gamoZieba Tavid-
anve zereled daiwyo da faqtebs
imitom itom Cqmalavs, rom ar unda,
sakuTari araprofesionalizmi
aRiaros?
_ am kiTxvaze pasuxi mas Semdeg
mecodineba, gamoZieba rom dasruldeba
da saqme sasamarTloSi
gaigzavneba, Tumca axlac faqtia,
rom gamoZiebasTan mimarTebiT
Zalian bevri kiTxvaa. yvelafers
Tavi rom davaneboT, SemTxvevis
adgili, sadac amirxanaSvili imaleboda,
daiwva da es ukve Zalian
did kiTxvis niSans aCens!
_ diax, magram SemTxveviT
dawvis versiaze kiTxvis niSnebi
mirian nikolaZes ar aqvs.
_ Zalian samwuxaroa, rom biZas
kiTxvebi ar uCndeba. davuSvaT, gamoZieba
sul idealurad rom mimdinareobdes
da is piric dadgenili
hyavdes, vinc gardacvalebis
Semswrea an gardacvalebasTan kav-
Siri aqvs, elementarulad kiTxvas
masac davusvamT, _ iqneb, masTan
erTad meore piric idga? policiam
amirxanaSvilis samalavis dacva
mxolod dawvis Semdeg daiwyo,
manamde ki ar icavda da rogor
SeiZleba, amaze kiTxva ar gqondes?
_ giorgi SaqaraSvils, roca
oTxdRiani Zebnis Semdeg aragvSi
ipoves, fexsacmeli da windebi ar
ecva, Tumca perangze Rilebi Sek-
ruli hqonda. es detali saeWvo
araa?
_ es ufro eqspertizam unda
gviTxras, miT umetes, rom kompleqsuri
eqspertiza daniSnulia.
marTali ar viqnebi, rom vTqva,
wyali Rilebs gauxsnida Tu ara.
eqspertebi imitom arseboben, rom
yvelaferi es daadginon.
_ ise, giorgi, ras elodebiT _
Tqveni dacvis qveS myofi aras-
rulwlovani am saqmidan rogor
gamova?
_ molodini ar maqvs, rom ganzrax
mkvlelobis muxliT mis mimarT
brali damZimebda. aranairi
mtkicebuleba ar arsebobs, romelic
amas daadasturebs _ mas
SaqaraSvilTan fizikuri siaxlovec
ki ar hqonia!
_ e. i. ukve wayenebuli muxliT
miusjian Tu sasamarTlo saer-
Tod gaaTavisuflebs?
_ imis Sesaxebac araerTxel
gviTqvams, rom arc amirxanaSvilis
Tavisuflebis ukanono aRkveTa
yofila _ amirxanaSvili Tavad ambobs,
rom sakuTari nebiT gahyva
maT. aqedan gamomdinare, vfiqrob,
z.x. am mimarTulebiT unda gamarTldes!
saerTod, jgufuri Zaladoba
da masSi monawileoba absoluturad
sxva kategoriis dana-
Saulia. warmoidgineT, saxelmwifom,
jgufuri ZaladobiTa da mas-
Si monawileobiT, anu 245-e muxliT,
20 ivniss dakavebulebs wauyena
brali.
_ diax, amis Sesaxeb cnobilia...
_ hoda, am SemTxvevaSi saxelmwifos
warmomadgenels winaaRmdegobas
ar vuwevT.
_ giorgi, Tqveni ar vici da
piradad me ki mgonia, rom am saqmeze
simarTles verasodes gav-
igebT...
_ imedi maqvs, rom dadgindeba,
Tumca ar vici, realurad ra iqneba.
N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
7
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
`giorgi SaqaraSvilis ojaxi
19 wlis fexburTel giorgi
giorgi abaSiZe
SaqaraSvilis mkvlelobaze sru-
liad sazogadoebas kiTxvebi aqvs.
yovel SemTxvevaSi, adamianebis umravlesoba darwmunebulia,
rom gamoZieba, minimum, araprofesionalurad mimdinareobs.
amasTan, legitimuria eWvi, rom saqmidan mtkicebulebebi mizanmimarTulad
imitom qreba da nadgurdeba, viRacas ar awy-
obs, sisxliani dabadebis dRis Sesaxeb simarTle dadgindes
da gavigoT, vin da ratom imsxverpla giorgi SaqaraSvili?
yvela am eWvs isic aZlierebs, rom tragediis erT-erTi figuranti,
fotografi iakob bregvaZe, romelsac, ratomRac, daz-
aralebulis statusi aqvs, Sss-s pressamsaxuris xelmZRvanel
nino giorgobianis mamidaSvilis Svilia.
advokati da uflebadamcevli
lia muxaSavria Cvens gamocemas-
Tan ambobs, rom eWvebis gasafantavad
giorgobianma uflebamosileba
droebiT, anu gamoZiebis
dasrulebamde mainc unda Se-
iCeros. amas garda Cveni respon-
denti ramdenime mniSvnelovan
detalzedac amaxvilebs yuradRebas,
rac gamoZiebis arakompetenturobasa
da araprofe-
sionalizms usvams xazs.
„qronika+~ gTavazobT inter-
vius lia muxaSavriasTan:
_ qalbatono lia, Cveni saubris
mTavari Tema, rasakvirve-
lia, narekvavis sisxliani iubile
iqneba, Tumca miuxedavad imisa,
rom bolo dros kriminalurma
SemTxvevebma moimata, SaqaraSvilis
mkvleloba mainc gansxvave-
buli qeisia _ yvelafers Tavi
rom davaneboT, gamoZieba, praqtikulad,
pirdapir eTerSi mi-
dis. Tqven, rogorc gamocdili
iuristi da uflebadamcveli, am
saqmeze ras fiqrobT da, saer-
Tod, ra kiTxvebi gaqvT?
_ pirvel rigSi, mainteresebs,
gamoZieba ratom Wianurdeba da
ise ratom ar midis, rogorc unda
midiodes _ vinmes xels afareben,
anu konkretuli piris dainteresebaa,
rom saqme mifuCeCdes
da Caifarcxos Tu is, rac moxda
da xdeba, tradiciulad, arakvalificiuri
gamoZiebis Sedegia? ise,
rom ara Jurnalistebisa da aseve
sazogadoebis aqtiuroba, es
saqmec, rogorc gauxsneli, albaT,
Taroze Semoideboda.
_ sxvaTa Soris, vidre saubars
daviwyebdiT, erT-erTi telev-
iziis eTerSi SaqaraSvilebis
ojaxis advokatma, mirian ni-
kolaZem, romelic gardacvlil
19 wlis fexburTels biZad
ekuTvnis, ganacxada, gamoZieba
kargad midiso. metic, batonma
nikolaZem ritorikulad ikiTxa,
_ ver gamigia, sazogadoebas kiT-
xvebi ratom aqvso? dazaralebu-
li ojaxis advokatis es pozicia
normaluria? da, zogadad, ra-
tom fiqrobT, rom gamoZieba
Wianurdeba?
_ giorgis gardacvalebidan
erTi Tve gavida, magram mkvlelobis
muxliT identificirebuli,
jerjerobiT, aravinaa, anu
marTalia, 17 piria dakavebuli,
magram cxadi ar aris, am 17-dan
konkretulad vis ra epizodSi
edeba brali. amasTan, sakvanZo mowmeebis
Cvenebebic Zalian saeWvoa.
_ ratom?
_ es Cvenebebi urTierTgamomricxavi
da Zalian areul-dareuli,
Sesabamisad, arasarwmunoa.
yvelafer aqedan gamomdinare,
mtkicebulebebis nawilSi saqme
Zalian sustad gamoiyureba.
swored yvelaferi es mafiqrebinebs,
rom gamoZieba saTanadod
ar midis. ver getyviT, ojaxi amas
rogor afasebs _ gasagebia, rom
am adamianebs uzarmazari tragedia
daatydaT da gasakviri araa,
rom ar SeuZliaT, yvelaferi
obieqturad gansajon an am
etapze rame pretenziebi wamoayenon.
SesaZloa, imedi aqvT an dapirebas
aZleven, rom yvelaferi
gairkveva, magram roca es dapirebebis
periodi gaivlis da
isini saSineli realobis winaSe
aRmoCndebian, mere movlen gons.
Cven ki SegviZlia, rom axlave
obieqturad vimsjeloT da miukerZoeblebic
viyoT!
_ gamoZiebis dasrulebis Sem-
deg giorgis ojaxi ra „saSineli
realobis” winaSe SeiZleba aR-
moCndes?
_ saSineli realoba is iqneba,
rom identificireba ver moxerxdeba,
es danaSauli vin Caidina,
anu giorgi SaqaraSvili
sikvdilis piras konkretulad
vin miiyvana an wyalSi vin gadaagdo,
sadac daixrCo da aseve
gaugebari iqneba konkretuli
motivi, ris gamoc aseTi sazareli
danaSauli moxda.
_ ise, gamoZiebas, Tundac,
versiis doneze, mkvlelobis
motivi ar dausaxelebia. es nor-
maluria, qalbatono lia?
_ swored amitom veWvob, rom
gamoZieba saTanadod da kvalificiurad
ar midis. saerTaSoriso
samarTlisa da evrosasamarTlos
kriteriumebi gulixmobs, rom
gamoZieba Tavidanve efeqtiani
unda iyos. es ki imas niSnavs, rom
damnaSave droulad unda identificirdes
da pasuxisgebaSi mieces.
sxvaTa Soris, am saqmeze dakavebuli
arasrulwlovanicaa, rac
kidev ufro SemWidrovebul
saproceso vadebs gulisxmobs,
magram miuxedavad amisa, tragediidan
erTi Tvis Semdegac, gamo-
Ziebas konkretuli pasuxi ar aqvs
kiTxvaze, _ vin misdevda SaqaraSvils?
vin scema? dazianebebi vin
miayena da wyalSi vin gadaagdo?
Tu aseT mniSvnelovan kiTxvebze
pasuxebi ar arsebobs, maSin
romel gamoZiebaze vsaubrobT?
weRandeli Tqmisa ar iyos,
faqtebsa Tu mowmeebs Jurnalistebi
pirdapir eTerSi eZeben.
lia muxaSavria:
`mxolod nino
giorgobiani ki ara,
Ss ministric karga
xnis gadamdgari
unda iyos!~
yvelafer amas analizs ukeTeben
da ase rom ar yofiliyo, gamo-
Ziebas is Sedegic ar eqneboda,
rac dRes aqvs. ise, xandaxan
meCveneba, rom gamoZieba Jurnalistebis
mier gamokvleuli faqtebis
gabaTilebas an dadasturebas
postfaqtum cdilobs. gamo-
Ziebam, ra Tqma unda, ar SeiZleba,
rom sazogadoebas yvelaferi
uTxras, magram roca saqmeze ase-
Ti maRali interesia, sazogadoebas
informacia yoveldRe unda
miawodos _ ra gaakeTa, Sedegi ram
moutana da ras gegmavs, Tumca
prokuraturisgan aseTi angariSi,
Tu ar meSleba, ar mogvismenia.
_ prokuraturisgan _ ara, magram
gamoZiebis Sualedur Sede-
gebze angariSi Ss ministris
moadgilisgan movismineT, romelmac
Tqva, saqmis masalebs bo-
lomde ar vicnobo.
_ Ss ministris moadgilis gancxadeba,
saqmis masalebs ar vicnob
da ase vsaubrobo, rbilad
rom vTqvaT, Zalian araseriozulia.
_ ratom?
_ nebismierma iuristma icis,
rom Ss ministris moadgile gamo-
Ziebis detalebsa da niuansebSi
unda erkveodes. mokled, yvela
is mwiri oficialuri gancxadeba,
romelic movismineT, STabeWdilebas
qmnis, rom saqme xeirianad
ar midis!
_ qalbatono lia, TqvenTvis
am saqmeSi yvelaze saeWvo fig-
uranti vin aris?
`aseT kiTxvas adamianebi, roca raRac ambavi
ainteresebT, erTmaneTs usvamen da rogor
SeiZleba, kvalificiurma gamomZiebelma,
romelsac xelfass vuxdiT, anu romelic
sazogadoebisgan daqiravebulia, aseTi
kiTxvebi ar dasvas? Turme gamoZiebam kiTxva
ar dausva da fotografmac ar Tqva,
TbilisSi Camosvlis Semdeg konkretulad sad
wavida - es TeTri ZafiT nakeri sisulelea.
saerTod, aseTi elementebi, saboloo jamSi,
qmnis gancdas, rom gamoZieba an saTanadod ar
midis, an viRac raRacas farcxavs, an viRac
Zalian suleli da arakvalificiuria, an
yvela es ubedureba erTad gvWirs!~
_ ai, is fotografi Zalian
saeWvod meCveneba.
_ damisabuTeT, ratom?
_ yvelafers Tavi rom davaneboT,
gamoZiebas moatyua da
uTxra, TbilisSi Camosvlis Semdeg
saxlSi wavedi da daviZineo.
arada, am dros cnobilia, rom
Temqaze gamarTul wveulebaze
imyofeboda.
_ fotografis advokat irma
Wkaduas ganmartebiT, iakob
bregvaZem ki ar moityua, aramed
gamomZieblebma ar hkiTxes, TbilisSi
Camosvlis Semdeg sad wav-
ida da amitom ratom unda eTqva,
Temqaze wavida Tu Seyvare-
bulTano?..
_ mec swored amas vambob, anu
Tu gamomZiebeli mowmes, romelic
movlenebis uSualo TviTmxilvelia,
aseT kiTxvas ar usvams,
maSin romel gamoZiebazea laparaki?
sxvaTa Soris, aseT dros
kiTxvis dasma araa saWiro.
_ aba?
_ gamomZiebeli pirs, rogorc
wesi, eubneba, mogviyevi, rac am
saqmis Sesaxeb icio. mas Semdeg,
rac moyveba, mowmes e. w. damazustebel
kiTxvebs usvamen. mokled,
Tu mowme fotografma ar
Tqva, mas Semdeg konkretulad
sad wavida, rac policiam TbilisSi
Caiyvana, gamomZiebelma xom
unda hkiTxos, _ dainteresda Tu
ara, im xalxs, visTan erTadac avtobanze
garboda da daimala, ra
bedi ewia? aseT kiTxvas adamianebi,
roca raRac ambavi ainteresebT,
erTmaneTs usvamen da
rogor SeiZleba, kvalificiurma
gamomZiebelma, romelsac xelfass
vuxdiT, anu romelic sazogadoebisgan
daqiravebulia,
aseTi kiTxvebi ar dasvas?
Turme gamoZiebam kiTxva ar
dausva da fotografmac ar Tqva,
TbilisSi Camosvlis Semdeg
konkretulad sad wavida _ es
TeTri ZafiT nakeri sisulelea.
saerTod, aseTi elementebi, saboloo
jamSi, qmnis gancdas, rom
gamoZieba an saTanadod ar midis,
an viRac raRacas farcxavs, an
viRac Zalian suleli da arakvalificiuria,
an yvela es ubedureba
erTad gvWirs!
_ gasagebia, rom dacvis
8 N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
saSineli realobis winaSe aRmoCndeba!~
ufleba yvelas aqvs, magram, qalbatono
lia, Tqven, rogorc ad-
vokati, am saqmeSi braldebulebs
daicavdiT?
_ roca icav, sxva pozicia
gaqvs. saerTod, am SemTxvevaSi ise
ki ar vsaubrob, rogorc advokati
an saqmeSi romelime subieqtis
mxare, aramed vsaubrob rogorc
rigiTi moqalaqe, romelsac Cemi
codnisa da gamocdilebidan gamomdinare,
am sferoSi cota meti
gamegeba. sxvaTa Soris, irma Wkaduas
Zalian kargad vicnob, igi
kvalificiuri advokatia, magram
imis Tqma, gamoZiebam ar hkiTxa da
amitom fotografma ar Tqva,
TbilisSi Camosvlis mere sad wavidao,
ar SeiZleba. bolos da bolos,
mas Semdeg, rac fotoaparati
amoiRes, sadac im Rames gada-
Rebuli asi Tu aTasobiT foto
aRmoCnda, gamoZiebas maSin xom
mainc unda ekiTxa, es fotoebi
sad da rodis gadaiReo? ise,
kiTxvac ar unda, radgan fotoaparati
TviTon afiqsirebs, foto
rodisaa gadaRebuli.
rac Seexeba Tqvens kiTxvas, me
yvelas davicavdi, radgan roca
advokati saqmes xels hkidebs,
unda daicvas. marTalia, sazareli
danaSaulia, magram advokatis
funqcia swored isaa, rom faqtebi
zustad daadginos da gamokveTos,
misi klienti konkretulad
rameSi damnaSave aris Tu ara,
radgan iseTi mZime danaSauli ar
dabraldes, romelic ar Caudenia.
ise, imis Tqmac, rom „qamris”
eqvsive mgzavrma pasuxi Tanabrad
unda agos da eqvsivem Tanabari
sasjeli unda miiRos, Zalian arakvalificiuria.
_ ratom?
_ am eqvsidan giorgis Sesa-
Zloa, eqvsive arc gadevnebia da
arc ucemia, anu am epizodSi eqvsive
Tanabrad ver miiRebda
monawileobas.
_ danaSaulidan erTi Tve
gavida da rogorc irma Wkaduam
erT-erT eTerSi ganacxada, sag-
amoZiebo eqsperimenti SesaZloa,
axla Catardes. amas azri aqvs an,
saerTod, gaxsendebaT SemTxveva,
roca gamoZiebas saproceso mo-
qmedebebi erTi Tvis dagvianebiT
daewyos?
_ mkvlelobis kuTxiT sagamo-
Ziebo moqmedebebis Catareba axla
ki ara, maSinac ki, roca daiwyo,
Zalian dagvianebuli iyo. gamo-
Ziebas mkvlelobis samuSao versia
maSinve unda hqonoda, sanam
gvams aRmoaCendnen. ratom eWvi
aravis hqonda, rom es axalgazrda
SesaZloa, gardacvlili yo-
`tragediidan erTi Tvis Semdegac, gamoZiebas
konkretuli pasuxi ar aqvs kiTxvaze, - vin
misdevda SaqaraSvils? vin scema? dazianebebi
vin miayena da wyalSi vin gadaagdo? Tu aseT
mniSvnelovan kiTxvebze pasuxebi ar arsebobs,
maSin romel gamoZiebaze vsaubrobT?~
filiyo? ise, Tu ramdenime adamiani
erTad garboda da mere sxvadasxva
adgilas daimala, ar vfiqrob,
rom erTmaneTis xma ar esmodaT,
anu Tu giorgi SaqaraSvils
ase gametebiT scemdnen, ver
warmomidgenia, rom romelimes
xma ar gaego an is teritoria ise
ratom datoves, rom erTmaneTi
ar moikiTxes? sxvaTa Soris,
imanac gamaoca, rom narekvavidan
wveulebam Temqaze gadainacvla
da gaTenebamde grZeldeboda,
arada, am dros TiTqmis yvelam
icoda, rom erTi axalgazrda
daikarga, minimum, ar Canda.
_ giorgis telefoni ar hqon-
da da axalgazrdebs, rogorc
Tavad amboben, imedi hqondaT,
rom is saxlSi mividoda, anu fe-
xburTels ver ukavSirdebodnen.
_ mesmis, magram ar mesmis,
rogor SeiZleba, roca erTi adamianis
mdgomareoba saeWvoa, mxiaruleba
gaagrZelo? es CemTvis
adamianurad Zalian gaugebari da
ucxoa. ase mgonia, rom amas sxva
planetelebi akeTeben.
_ saerTod, am saqmeSi bevri
ucnauri detalia. ai, magaliTad,
cxedari oTxi dRe wyalSi iyo,
Tumca roca ipoves, perangze
Rilebi Sekruli hqonda da es
`giorgi SaqaraSvilis tragedia gardamtexi
iyo, romliTac sazogadoebam dainaxa, rom
aseTi tragedia, SesaZloa, yvelas Tavze
datrialdes, magram damnaSave dausjeli
darCes! yovel SemTxvevaSi, gamoZiebam,
minimum, upasuxo kiTxvebi datovos~
maSin, roca arc fexsacmeli
ecva da arc _ windebi...
_ diax, es Zalian gasaocaria,
Tan cxedari im adgilas ipoves,
sadac Rrma wyali ar iyo, anu ar
amotivtivebula. televiziiT
yvelani vxedavdiT, rom maSvelebi
lamis welamde siRrmis wyal-
Si eZebdnen da amdeni xani ratom
eZebdnen?
mokled, yvelaferi es Zalian
saeWvod gamoiyureba.
_ qalbatono lia, Tqveni dakvirvebiT,
SaqaraSvilis tragediis
Semdeg sazogadoebaSi usa-
marTlobisa da daucvelobis
gancda gaizarda da aqve gkiTx-
avT, yvelaferi es, saboloo
jamSi, politikur saxes miiRebs
Tu ise daviviwyebT, rogorc,
vTqvaT, luka siraZis tragedia
dagvaviwyda?
_ raodenoba xarisxSi gadadis
xolme.
_ anu?
_ giorgi SaqaraSvilis tragedia
gardamtexi iyo, romliTac
sazogadoebam dainaxa, rom aseTi
tragedia, SesaZloa, yvelas Tavze
datrialdes, magram damnaSave
dausjeli darCes! yovel SemTxvevaSi,
gamoZiebam, minimum, upasuxo
kiTxvebi datovos. saerTod,
ori aTeuli welia, uflebadamcvelebi
am Temaze vsaubrobT
da ar vukadrisobT, rom sazogadoebas
mudmivad gavaxsenoT, magram
amis miuxedavad, mosaxleobas
ar hqonda gancda, ai, yvelani
daucvelebi varTo. SaqaraSvilis
saqmem ki bevrisTvis TvalsaCino
gaxada, rom aseTi ubedureba,
SesaZloa, yvelas daemar-
Tos, anu arakvalificiuri gamo-
Ziebis pirispir SesaZloa, nebismieri
aRmoCndes da Tu media ar
iaqtiurebs, yvelaferi mifuCeCdeba.
_ qalbatono lia, weRan fo-
tografi vaxseneT da miTxariT,
Tqveni azriT, iakob bregvaZe
dazaralebuli ratomaa da aqve
gkiTxavT: misma naTesavma, nino
giorgobianma, romelic Sss-s
pressamsaxuris xelmZRvanelia,
Tanamdeboba, minimum, gamoZiebis
dasrulebamde unda datovos Tu
ara?
_ me rom mkiTxoT, mxolod
giorgobiani ki ara, Ss ministric
karga xnis gadamdgari unda iyos!
giorgobians, yvelafers Tavi
rom davaneboT, uflebamosileba
unda SeeCerebina. ase rom moqceuliyo,
sazogadoebaSi ganmtkicdeboda
azri, rom am saqmesTan
dakavSirebuli araa, anu naTesavs
ar mfarvelobs, magram xelisuflebaSi
iseTi zeTavdajarebuloba
aqvT, romelic moralisa da
zneobisgan Zalian daSorebulia!
TanamdebobiT aravin ibadeba. am
adamianebs xval quCaSi gavla xom
undaT da mezoblebsa Tu sxvebs
TvalebSi rogor unda Sexedon?
saerTod, axalgazrdebSi aseTi
konfliqtebi, romelic tragikulad
sruldeba, Zalian gaxSirda.
_ iziarebT mosazrebas, rom
axalgazrdebSi „qurduli men-
talitetis” romantizeba xdeba
da amdeni ubedurebac amis Sede-
gia?
_ ar mgonia, ase iyos.
_ aba, rogor ggoniaT?
_ es ufro kompleqsuri da
rTuli movlenaa.
_ ras gulisxmobT?
_ Cven SeiZleba, „gadavxarSeT”
da 90-ianebi cud koSmarad gvaxsendeba,
magram axalgazrdebi
yvelafer imas, rac maSin xdeboda
_ Zaladobas, ganukiTxaobas,
srolasa Tu usamarTlobas ise
aRiqvamdnen, rogorc cxovrebis
normas. gvikvirs, mozardebi ase-
Ti usulguloebi, sastikebi da
Seubraleblebi ratom arian da
am dros gvaviwydeba, rom isini
iseT garemoSi gaizardnen, roca
yvelaze „magari” biWi xalxs xocavda,
magram mas aravin sjida.
erTi sityviT, am bavSvebisTvis
arcTu Soreul warsulSi samagaliToebi
aseTi „magari biWebi”
iyvnen. Sesabamisad, yvelaferi
es Seisisxlxorces da normad
miiCneven, Torem ar mgonia, „qurduli
samyaros” romantizeba
imaze metad xdebodes, vidre Cems
axalgazrdobaSi iyo, magram Cven
TeTrisa da Savis, avisa da kargis
garCeva ufro SegveZlo, radgan
sikeTe nanaxi gvqonda, anu keTil-
Sobil adamianebs vicnobdiT da
isini sazogadoebisgan pativsacemebi
da dafasebulebi iyvnen.
dRes ki aseTi adamianebi aRar
arian da avtoritetad mZarcveli,
moZalade, yaCaRi, qurdi da
mamaZaRli iTvleba!
_ sxvaTa Soris, „nacionaluri
moZraobis” xelisuflebaSi yof-
nis dros e. w. qurduli samyaros
Sesaxeb kanoni miiRes da adami-
anebs imis Tqmisac ki eSinodaT,
rom „kanonier qurds” icnobdnen.
marTalia, am kanonis anu-
lireba aravis mouxdenia, magram
am kuTxiT dRes simkacris deficitia.
ar meTanxmebiT, qalba-
tono lia?
_ SeiZleba, magram dRes uamravi
informacia arebobs, romliTac
adamiani gaigebs, es samyaro
sinamdvileSi rogoria.mokled,
imis Tqma minda, rom „qurduli
samyaros” romantizeba ki ar xdeba,
aramed axali Taoba im garemos
produqtia, romelSic is
gavzardeT!
_ geTanxmebiT, rom yvela an
TiTqmis yvela problema Savb-
nel 90-ian wlebSi iRebs saTaves,
magram igive „SaqaraSvilis saqme-
Si” ori sayuradRebo detalia:
erTi is, rom saxelmwifo romeliRac
Tanamdebobis piris in-
teresebs icavs da meore is, rom
tragediaSi e. w. zonderjgufe-
bi figurireben. zogadad, bolo
dros „zonderebis” Tema erTob
aqtualuria, anu arsebobs
sportsmenebisgan Tu sxva profesiis
adamianebisgan dako-
mpleqtebuli erTgvari kasta,
romelsac SeuZlia, nebismieri
cudi gaakeTos, magram pasuxs ar
agebs, radgan xelisuflebas misi
vali aqvs?
_ me Tu mkiTxavT, xrwnis procesi
yvela socialur fenaSi midis.
_ anu?
_ ixrwneba xelisufleba, romelic
Tavs ufro maRla mdgomad
miiCnevs. sinamdvileSi ki ase araa.
amasobaSi, kriminaluri elementebi
e. w. politikur elitas Zalian
dauaxlovdnen da daunaTesavdnen.
_ am daaxloeba-danaTesavebis
sababi ra aris?
_ aSkaraa, rom saarCevnod xelisufleba
kriminalur elementebs
iyenebs, anu maT Soris garkveuli
garigeba ideba, rac dana-
Saulis Cadenis dros kriminaluri
elementebis dacvas gulisxmobs.
sxvaTa Soris, yvelafer
aqedan CemTvis erTi Zalian optimisturi
detali gamoikveTa.
_ kerZod?
_ jer erTi, sazogadoeba sajaro
aRSfoTebas gamoxatavs; meorec,
Tavis simaRleze dgas da
faqtebis miCqmalvis uflebas aravis
aZlevs. yvelafer amis gamo
xelisufleba da kriminaluri
samyaroc iZulebuli xdeba, rom
sazogadoebriv azrs angariSi
gauwios. Tu aseT erTianobas gavagrZelebT,
maSin xelisuflebisa
da kriminaluri elementebis
urTierTobas CavaxSobT!
N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
9
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
`nacionaluri moZraoba~
bolo erTi Tvea, didi da pa-
giorgi abaSiZe
tara 19 wlis fexburTelis,
giorgi SaqaraSvilis dRemde bu-
rusiT mocul mkvlelobaze saubrobs da gasakviri araa, rom
am tragediam politikuri dRis wesrigic Secvala, Tumca amis
miuxedavad, politikur kuluarebSi procesebi duRs. ai, ma-
galiTad, axlaxan cnobili gaxda, rom Ss yofili ministri,
vano merabiSvili, romelmac sapatimroSi Svidi weli gaatara,
saqarTvelos mesame prezident mixeil saakaSvils Sexvda. gavr-
celebuli informaciiT, am Sexvedraze yofili mTavari
prokurori zurab adeiSvilic imyofeboda.
raze isaubres yofilma mmar-
Tvelebma? _ amis Sesaxeb danamd-
vilebiT arfris Tqma SegviZlia,
radgan Sexvedris Taobaze saaka-
Svilma „feisbuqis” sakuTar
gverdze mxolod foto gamo-
aqveyna, romelzedac saakaSvilis,
merabiSvilisa da adeiSvilis
garda Canan: evrosabWos saparlamento
asambleis ukrainis delegaciis
xelmZRvanelebi liza ias-
ko, dimitri gordoni, alesia
bacmani, Tbilisis yofili vice-
meri giorgi cxakaia, yofili
deputati petre ciskariSvili
da ukrainis erovnuli antikorufciuli
biuros xelmZRvanelis
pirveli moadgile gizo ugu-
lava. paralelurad, vrceldeba
informacia, rom „nacionalurma
moZraobam” SesaZloa, „Zala er-
TobaSia” datovos, Tumca „qron-
ika+~-sTan saubrisas yofili
mmarTveli partiis politsabWos
wevri zurab meliqiSvili am in-
formacias ar adasturebs.
ratomaa
darwmunebuli
opozicia, rom wlevandel
arCevnebSi „ocneba” aucileblad
damarcxdeba? _ am da sxva Teme-
bis Sesaxeb „qronika+”-ma zurab
meliqiSvilTan interviu Cawera,
romelTan saubaric, rasakvirvelia,
giorgi SaqaraSvilis mkv-
lelobiT daviwyeT:
_ batono zurab, SaqaraSvilis
saqmeze ras fiqrobT?
_ esaa tragedia, romelmac
mTeli qveyana da sazogadoeba
unda daafiqros. am tragediam
gvaCvena, rom mozardi, romelic
quCaSi gadis, didi albaTobiT,
msxverpli an moZalade xdeba! es
ki im ganukiTxaobis Sedegia, romelic
dRes saqarTveloSia da
romelic, pirdapir Tu iribad,
axlandelma xelisuflebam daamkvidra!
_ 2012 wlis Semdeg araerTi
msgavsi tragedia moxda, maT
Soris, maCalikaSvilis, saraliZisa
Tu siraZis, Tumca SaqaraS-
vilis qeisi mainc precedentu-
lia. amas riT xsniT?
_ geTanxmebiT, magram SaqaraSvilis
tragedia imaze metyvelebs,
rac qveyanaSi xdeba. sxvaTa Soris,
SemTxveviT ar miTqvams, rom mozardi,
romelic quCaSi gadis, didi
albaTobiT, msxverpli an moZalade
xdeba. amitom yvelafer amaze
mxolod ki ar unda davfiqrdeT,
aramed seriozuladac unda vimoqmedoT,
raTa is Sedegi ar mivi-
RoT, rac saqarTveloSi 90-ian
wlebSi xdeboda.
_ e. i., Tqvenc, rogorc mSo-
bels, gaqvT SiSi da gancda, rom
quCaSi gasul Tqvens Svils Sesa-
Zloa, safrTxe daemuqros?
_ ra Tqma unda. aseTi gancda
mxolod me ki ara, saqarTvelos
nebismier moqalaqes aqvs!
saerTod, politikuri oponentebis
mier politikuri Sefasebebi
erTia, magram meorea realoba,
romelic qveyanaSi arsebobs. diax,
suraTi aseTia _ viRac xeldafarebulia,
viRac ki daucvelia!
_ batono zurab, raki 90-iani
wlebi axseneT, gkiTxavT: xom ar
fiqrobT, rom e. w. qurduli men-
talitetis romantizeba xdeba
da yvelafer amis gaTvaliswinebiT
saakaSvilis „nulovani tol-
erantoba” gamarTlebuli iyo?
_ iciT, realurad ra xdeba?
_ ra?
_ Zaladoba „mosula”, anu Zaladoba
xeldafarebulia. amas ki
mTeli sazogadoeba unda SeewinaaRmdegos!
SaqaraSvilis gardacvaleba
erTi ojaxis ki ara,
mTeli qveynis tragediaa!
_ geTanxmebiT, magram oponir-
eba unda gagiwioT, batono
zurab: Tqven im partiis warmo-
madgeneli da politsabWos wevri
xarT, romlis xelisuflebaSi
yofnis drosac araerTi trage-
dia moxda. gavixsenoT, Tundac,
girgvlianis mkvleloba. hoda,
maSinac ase fiqrobdiT, rom yve-
laferi es erTi ojaxis ki ara,
mTeli qveynis tragedia iyo?
_ xazgasmiT vambob: Cemi naTqvami
im garemos exeba, romelic
bolo 8 wlis ganmavlobaSi Seiqmna,
anu Zaladoba waxalisebuli da
xeldafarebulia. metic: xelisufleba
Zaladobas sakuTari politikuri
upiratesobisTvis iyenebs.
amitom moZaladeebi im saqmeebSi,
rasac akeTeben, xeldafarebas
iTxoven! Cven politikuri periodebi
ki ar unda SevadaroT,
aramed arsebul gamowvevebze unda
visaubroT! diax, simarTle
isaa, rom mozards ori Sansi aqvs
_ an msxverpli unda gaxdes, an _
moZalade! amis Semdeg visac unda,
iseTi Sefaseba gaakeTos! bolo
dros momxdari tragediebi mTeli
qveynisa da mosaxleobis gamowvevaa!
_ geTanxmebiT, rom am moja-
doebul wres rogorme Tavi unda
davaRwioT, magram Tavis droze
ambobdnen, „nacionaluri moZr-
aobis”, rogorc mmarTveli Zalis
dasasruli „girgvlianis saqmiT”
daiwyoo. SesaZloa, am ori saq-
mis Sedareba ar SeiZleba, magram
xom ar fiqrobT, rom „SaqaraSvi-
lis saqme” „ocnebis” dasasrulis
dasawyisi iqneba?
_ am SemTxvevaSi arc „naciona-
zurab meliqiSvili:
`SaqaraSvilis
tragedia im
ganukiTxaobis
Sedegia, romelic
`ocnebam~
daamkvidra!~
lur moZraobaze” vfiqrob da
arc „ocnebaze” vdardob! ubralod,
im garemoze vsaubrob, rac
Cvens qveyanaSia! xalxo, es saxelmwifos
degradaciis dasawyisia!
adamianisTvis yvelaze sanukvari
Svilia, anu misTvis wvalobs da
Sromobs, raTa normalur garemo-
Si icxovros, magram axla Cveni
momavali Taoba im ori saSiSroebis
winaSe dgas, romelic weRan
giTxariT. aqedan gamomdinare,
yvelafer amis politikur partiebamde
dayvana sworad ar mimaCnia!
xelisuflebaSi myofma politikurma
Zalam keTili inebos da
am viTarebis Sesacvlelad politikuri
neba gamoavlinos, magram
„ocneba” piriqiT iqceva.
_ Tqveni mZafri Sefasebebis
miuxedavad, sazogadoebis umetesoba
mainc „ocnebas” uWers mx-
ars. yovel SemTxvevaSi, „edison
riserCis” gamokiTxvis mixedviT,
romelic „formulam” axlaxan
gaasajarova, yvelaze didi ndo-
ba mmarTvel gunds aqvs. amas riT
xsniT, batono zurab?
_ sazogadoeba „qarTul ocnebas”
31 oqtombers gascems pasuxs,
rasac Tqvenc dainaxavT da
mec, anu es gadawyvetileba sazogadoebas
miRebuli aqvs, Tumca
sakuTari azris xmamaRla
dafiqsireba jer kidev didi safrTxis
Semcvelia.
_ sakuTari azris sajarod
gamoxatva safrTxis Semcveli
ratomaa?
_ „ocnebis” xelisufleba adamianebze
samsaxuridan gaSvebiT,
maTi axloblebis daWeriTa Tu
muqariT moqmedebs. am viTarebaSi
sazogadoebis realuri ganwyoba
`erT rames xazs vusvam: baton giorgi vaSaZes
SesaZloa, garkveuli mosazrebebi aqvs da es
konkretulad misi mosazrebebia. `nacionalur
moZraobas~ ki, rogorc `Zala erTobaSias~
wevrs, is mosazrebebi da Rirebulebebi aqvs,
romelic Tavidanve gaJRerda da Cven am gzas
Zalian mtkiced mivyvebiT!~
kvlevebSi, ra Tqma unda, ar aisaxeba,
Tumca weRandeli Tqmisa ar
iyos, mosaxleobas gadawyvetileba
miRebuli aqvs, romelsac 31
oqtombers gaaxmovanebs!
_ davuSvaT, asea, magram axlan-
deli da 2012 wlis winasaarCevno
viTareba gansxvavebulia, anu ma-
Sin amomrCevelma icoda, rom „na-
cionaluri moZraoba” „ocnebiT”
unda Seecvala, axla ki opoziciis
mimarT ar mgonia, aseTi ndo-
ba arsebobdes, miT umetes, im
fonze, roca „antiocnebelebis”
banakSi erTmaneTs kvants ude-
ben... ai, magaliTad, kuluaruli
informaciiT, „Zala erTobaSia”
ver Camoyalibda, arCevnebze
rogor gamovides...
_ raki gainteresebT, getyviT:
„Zala erTobaSia” pirovnebebis
gamarjvebisa da maTi TanamdebobebisTvis
ar Seqmnila!
_ ukacravad, Tanamdebobebi
ra SuaSia?
_ „Zala erTobaSia” qarTveli
xalxis gamarjvebisTvis Seiqmna!
Cven am principebs ar vRalatobT!
metic: Zalian male „Zala er-
TobaSias” kidev ramdenime politikuri
partia SemouerTdeba!
_ anu „nacionaluri moZrao-
ba” am platformas ar datovebs?
_ „nacionalurma moZraobam” is
gaerTianeba rogor unda datovos,
romelic misi iniciativiTa
da mis garSemo Seiqmna?
_ batono zurab, Tqven xom
Cemze ukeT iciT, rom igive „na-
cionaluri moZraoba” giorgi
vaSaZis gunds upirispirdeba?
_ aranairi dapirispireba araa!
erT rames xazs vusvam: baton
giorgi vaSaZes SesaZloa, garkveuli
mosazrebebi aqvs da es konkretulad
misi mosazrebebia. „nacionalur
moZraobas” ki, rogorc
„Zala erTobaSias” wevrs, is mosazrebebi
da Rirebulebebi aqvs,
romelic Tavidanve gaJRerda da
Cven am gzas Zalian mtkiced mivyvebiT!
aqedan gamomdinare, „nacionaluri
moZraoba” „Zala er-
TobaSias” araTu ar, aramed verc
datovebs _ es gamoricxulia!
mokled, „Zala erTobaSia” kidev
ufro gaZlierdeba da amas Zalian
10
10 N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
`Zala erTobaSias~ ar datovebs!~
male gaigebT!
_ kargi, magram 2018 wlis sap-
rezidento arCevnebis win „Zala
erTobaSias” wevrma partiebma
memorandumi gaaformeT, romlis
Tanaxmadac saparlamento arCevnebze
erTiani siiT unda gamox-
videT. es SeTanxmeba ZalaSia?
_ diax, Cven am memorandumis
erTgulebi varT!
_ e. i., „Zala erTobaSias” er-
Tiani sia eqneba?
_ vimeoreb: Cven am memorandumis
erTgulebi varT da amas
Zalian male dainaxavT! is, rom
bevrs ar vlaparakobT, es imas ar
niSnavs, rom im nabijebsa da gadawyvetilebebs
ar mivdevT, romelic
Tavis droze gadavdgiT d
miviReT!
_ Tu „Zala erTobaSias” romelime
politikuri subieqti da-
tovebs, amiT xalxs erTianobis
gancda aRar eqneba. arada, amomrCevlis
mTavari SekveTa, dameT-
anxmeT, rom swored erTianobaa!
_ diax, magram geubnebiT, rom
„Zala erTobaSias” kidev bevri
partia daemateba.
_ SeiZleba, magram mTavaria,
iseTi partia daematos, romelsac
gavlena aqvs, Torem erT-
orkaciani partiis Semomateba ra
xeirs mogcemT?
_ „Zala erTobaSia” erTad
yofnis iZulebiTi ki ara, gamarjvebis
aucilebeli modelia! yvelas
mivesalmebiT, visac survili
aqvs, rom „Zala erTobaSias” formatSi
iyos, magram Tu vinmes sxva
mocemuloba da amocana eqneba,
esec bunebrivi iqneba.
_ bunebrivi ratom iqneba?
_ es cocxali organizmia da
yvelaferi urTierTSeTanxmebis
safuZvelze xdeba da ara _ imis,
rom vinme SesaZloa, vinmeze nawyeni
iyos.
_ batono zurab, Tu ise
moxdeba, rom arCevnebSi „ocneba”
40-procentamde aiRebs, Tqveni
azriT, opoziciaSi xom ar gamoCndebian
partiebi, romelTa dax-
marebiTac ivaniSvilis gundi saparlamento
umravlesobas Seqm-
nis da, Sesabamisad, mTavrobasac
isev Tavad daakompleqtebs?
_ msgavss sakiTxebs cota ufro
masStaburad da Soridan vuyureb.
_ anu?
_ daSveba da albaToba, ra Tqma
unda, yvelafris SeiZleba da
Tqveni kiTxvac sruliad legitimuria,
Tumca mTavari mainc sazogadoebrivi
ganwyobaa, anu sazogadoebam
miiRo gadawyvetileba,
rom „qarTuli ocneba” xelisuflebaSi
aRar unda iyos.
aqedan gamomdinare, Tu romelime
politikuri partia gadawyvets,
rom „ocnebas” iq gahyves, sadac
misi gzaa, es am partiis arCevani
iqneba, Tumca garwmunebT, rom
msgavsi mmarTveloba SesaZloa,
Zalian mcire albaTobiT iqnas
daSvebuli!
_ partia „kanoni da samarTlis”
lideri Riad da daufara-
vad ambobs, rom „evropuli
saqarTvelo” fsevdoopoziciaa.
Tqven ras fiqrobT?
_ yvelas, gansakuTrebiT,
opoziciaSi movuwodeb, rom piradi
wyena gadados! dRes yvelaze
mTavari sazogadoebis ganwyobis
Sesabamisad moqmedebaa! sazogadoebis
ganwyoba ki isaa, rom arsebuli
ganukiTxavi, arafrismomcemi
da damangreveli periodi
unda dasruldes. momaval nebismier
koaliciur mTavrobas saqar-
Tvelos mosaxleoba, ase vTqvaT,
daalagebs. am dalagebis pirvel
niSnebs ki 31 oqtombers davinaxavT!
_ am „dalagebaSi” gadamwyveti
roli mixeil saakaSvils eqneba,
romelic cxadia, mniSvnelovani
faqtoria?
_ mixeil saakaSvili faqtori
mxolod saqarTveloSi ki ara,
ufro did masStabzea, rasac yvelani
vxedavT. aqedan gamomdinare,
saqarTvelos politikaSi misi
roli Zalian didia da aseve is
„nacionalur moZraobasTanac”
pirdapir kavSirSia!
_ batono zurab, ramdenime
dRis win saakaSvils vano merabiSvili
Sexvda. Ss yofili ministris
politikuri gaaqtiure-
ba „nacionalur moZraobaze”
N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
`Zala erTobaSia~ erTad yofnis iZulebiTi ki ara, gamarjvebis aucilebeli
modelia! yvelas mivesalmebiT, visac survili aqvs, rom `Zala erTobaSias~
formatSi iyos, magram Tu vinmes sxva mocemuloba da amocana eqneba, esec
bunebrivi iqneba~
cudad xom ar imoqmedebs?
_ jer erTi, Zalian kargi, rom
saakaSvils Sexvda. meorec, merabiSvilma
cudad ratom unda imoqmedos?
is ivaniSvilma Svidi wlis
ganmavlobaSi cixeSi Casva da es,
sxvaTa Soris, im saqarTveloSi
moxda, romlis dangrevisa da
gadawvisTvis arc erTi Tanamdebobis
piri arc erT xelisuflebas
cixeSi ar gauSvia! vano merabiSvili
ki samagaliTod dasajes _ is
ivaniSvilis piradi patimari iyo!
_ ivaniSvil-merabiSvilis ur-
TierTobaze ki ara, xalxis ganw-
yobaze gkiTxeT, anu xalxs jer
kidev ar daviwyebia, rom merabiSvilis
Ss ministrobis dros qvey-
anaSi bevri cudi moxda...
_ Tqven xom saakaSvilisa da merabiSvilis
Sexvedraze mkiTxeT?
_ ufro konkretulad imaze
gkiTxeT, merabiSvilis polit-
gaaqtiureba „nacmoZraobaze”
cudad xom ar imoqmedebs-meTqi?
_ cudad ratom unda imoqmedos?
_ kiTxvas sxvanairad dagisvamT:
romelime regionSi merabiSvili
„nacmoZraobis” maJori-
`maJoritarobis kandidati vin iqneba da vin -
ara, dagvitoveT ufleba, rom es informacia
partiam Tavis droze gaavrcelos. opoziciis
erTianobis principidan gamomdinare, Cven
Tbilisis maJoritarobis ori kandidatura
davasaxeleT. yvela sxva kandidats ki Zalian
male warvadgenT!~
tarobis kandidati iqneba?
_ maJoritarobis kandidati
vin iqneba da vin _ ara, dagvitoveT
ufleba, rom es informacia
partiam Tavis droze gaavrcelos.
opoziciis erTianobis
principidan gamomdinare, Cven
Tbilisis maJoritarobis ori kandidatura
davasaxeleT. yvela
sxva kandidats ki Zalian male
warvadgenT!
_ Tbilisis maJoritarebze
unda CagekiTxoT: saburTaloze
„nacionaluri moZraoba” Tako
Carkvianis kandidaturas ratom
ar uWers mxars?
_ „nacionalurma moZraobam”
Tbilisis maJoritarebis kandidatebi
leiboristebis ofisSi
arsebuli opoziciis formatiT
warvadgineT. es kandidatebi nika
melia da levan xabeiSvili arian.
_ es vici, batono zurab, magram
Tu ise moxda, rom arCevneb-
Si mainc „ocnebam” gaimarjva,
opozicia ras izams? anu Tu is
scenari gaTamaSda, romliTac
2018 wlis saprezidento arCev-
nebis meore turi salome zur-
abiSvilma moigo, opozicias ra
meqanizmebi gaqvT, rom gayalbe-
ba ar dauSvaT?
_ daviwyoT iqidan, rom 2018
wlis saprezidento arCevnebi
gadamwyveti ar yofila.
_ amas ratom ambobT?
_ yvelam icoda, rom erTi
prezidenti verafers ganaxorcielebda.
sxvaTa Soris, roca
biZina ivaniSvili prezidentis instituts
sajarod da saxalxod
akritikebda, es ise aRiqmeboda,
rom giorgi margvelaSvils TiTqos
wyenas ar patiobda. sinamdvileSi
ki ivaniSvils sxva rame
hqonda Cafiqrebuli.
_ ra?
_ ivaniSvils undoda, yvelafer
amiT xalxisTvis daenaxvebina,
rom prezidentis instituti
arafers warmoadgens da prezidentobisTvis
brZola, ubralod,
fuWi da wyalSi gadayrili iyo.
aqedan gamomdinare, is Sedegi
dadga, romelic dadga. 2020 wlis
saparlamento arCevnebi ki gadamwyvetia
da am gadamwyvet arCevnebze
yvelafers bolomde gamoviyenebT.
_ anu?
_ Cven gayalbebis winaaRmdeg
araerTi meqanizmi gvaqvs da yvelafer
amis prezentacias siurprizis
saxiT SemogTavazebT! mokled,
„nacionaluri moZraoba” da,
saerTod, mTeli opozicia imisTvis
vemzadebiT, rom am arCevnebze
xalxis ganwyobis Sesabamisi Sedegi
dadges!
_ vnaxoT, ra moxdeba, Tumca
erTic unda gkiTxoT: asea Tu
ise, faqtia _ korona „ocnebis”
mokavSired iqca, miT ufro, rom
meore talRas elodebian da
swored am niadagze xelisuflebam
koronaSezRudvebis SemoRebis
ufleba wlis bolomde gaix-
angrZliva...
_ korona „qarTuli ocnebis”
mokavSire ar gamxdara! „ocnebis”
mokavSire koronas SiSi iyo, Tumca
isic garkveuli periodis ganmavlobaSi.
dRes es SiSi xalxma
daZlia, anu icis, rom korona ganaCeni
araa. ise, ratom ggoniaT,
rom „ocnebam” korona mokavSired
gaixada? _ ra, vinmem rame daxmareba
miiRo, vinmes samsaxuri
SesTavazes Tu mas, vinc samuSao
dakarga, rame benefiti misces?
mas Semdeg, rac sammiliardian
daxmarebaze Tanxmoba miiRo, „ocnebam”
garkveuli danapirebi gasca,
magram am danapirebis miRma 2
milion 700 aTasi moqalaqe dar-
Ca! Tqven ki imaze saubrobT, rom
korona SeiZleba, „ocnebis”
mokavSired iyos aRqmuli?
„ocnebam” SiSi gamoiyena, anu
sxvebs aSinebda, TviTon ki Zalian
cudad iqceoda. ai, magaliTad,
gveubnebodnen, rom avtomqanaSi
win jdoma danaSauli iyo da amis
gamo adamianebs 3 aTasiT ajarimebdnen.
am dros ki jandacvis
ministri wina savarZelze iyo wamoskupebuli
da gvimtkicebda,
sagangebo Stabis xelmZRvaneli
var da CemTvis daSvebuliao. e. i.,
gvmitkicebdnen, rom Tu manqanaSi
win coli da qmari isxdeboda,
korona romelimes ecemoda, magram
Tu mZRolis gverdiT ministri
dajdeboda, mas _ ara! amas
garda, gveubnebodnen, manqaniT
gadaadgileba ar SeiZleba da fexiT
unda iaroTo. am dros ki ma-
RalCinosnebi avtomobilebiT dagrialebdnen
da amaze fiqrobT,
rom sazogadoeba koronas „ocnebis”
mokavSired aRiqvams?
_ batono zurab, ratom mi-
brazdebiT?
_ Tqven ki ar gibrazdebiT, im
adamianebs mivmarTav, vinc fiqrobs,
rom korona xelisuflebis
mokavSirea! vimeoreb: „ocnebis”
mokavSire korona ki ara, koronas
SiSi iyo. ise, „ocnebas” marTla
hqonda Sansi, rom am pandemiis
dros xalxisTvis rame gaekeTebina,
magram is saerTaSoriso daxmarebebi,
romelic Cvens moqalaqeebs
unda mieRoT, iqamde daiyvana,
rom saarCevnod misi feodalkandidatebi
erT litra zeTs,
erT kilogram xaxvs daiWeren, mosaxleobas
miadgebian da daibraleben,
ai, gexmarebiTo. erTi sityviT,
es arCevnebi gadamwyveti
romelime partiisTvis ki ara, qveynisTvisaa!
TiToeulma Cvenganma
unda miviRoT gadawyvetileba:
saxelmwifo gvinda Tu erTi adamianis
mosamsaxureebad yofna?!
11
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
`qarTuli ocnebis~ politikuri
ras emsaxureboda prezident
nene injgia
zurabiSvilis
„SaqaraSvilis
591 71 39 98
saqmesTan” dakavSirebiT gakeTebuli
gancxadeba? rogor pasux-
obs opozicia mmarTveli gundis braldebas, rom am Temas isini
politikuri miznebisTvis iyeneben? ra molodini unda
gvqondes saqmis gamoZiebasTan mimarTebiT?
591 71 39 98 irma nadiraSvili:
am da sxva politikuri Temebis
Sesaxeb „qronika+” „evropuli
saqarTvelos” wevr irma nadiraS-
vils esaubra:
_ qalbatono irma, ra kiTxvebi
gaqvT „SaqaraSvilis saqmis” detalebze
da dRevandeli mocemu-
lobiT ra ikveTeba?
_ sanam gamoZieba mimdinareobs,
SesaZloa, Zalian bevr Temaze saubari
spekulacia iyos. miT umetes,
rom am saqmis Sesaxeb bevri informaciaa
da media aqtiurad aris
CarTuli saqmis gamoZiebaSi. Cven
yoveldRe uamrav axal detals
vigebT, Sesabamisad, Znelia gaarkvio,
ra aris marTali da ra _ tyuili.
es yvelaferi erTmaneTSia
areuli, magram mTavari is aris,
rom am zedapiruli informacii-
Tac ki naTeli xdeba samarTaldamcveli
organoebis SesaZlo arakompetenturi
muSaoba. sazogadoeba-
Si Cndeba eWvi, rom am saqmesTan dakavSirebiT
sistemuri danaSaulia,
radgan saerTod ar arsebobs ndoba
arc prokuraturisa da arc
policiis mimarT. me droebiTi sagamoZiebo
komisiis wevri viyavi da
vnaxe, ramdeni TeTri ZafiT Sekerili
detali iyo „saraliZis saqme-
Si”, rogor cdilobdnen prokuraturis
maRalCinosnebi TavianTi
gavlenis gamoyenebas da saqmis mimarTulebis
Secvlas. rodesac
prokuratura da policia iaraRia
politikuri partiis xelSi, aseT
SemTxvevaSi ndoba am uwyebebis mimarT
dabalia da swored amiT unda
avxsnaT, rom SaqaraSvilis jer
kidev gamouZiebel saqmeze sazogadoebas
Zalian bevri eWvi aqvs.
_ aris aseTi Sefaseba, rom xe-
lisuflebas winasaarCevnod ar
awyobs am saqmis gamouZiebloba,
aqedan gamomdinare, saqmeze obieqturi
WeSmaritieba dadgeba. ram-
denad iziarebT am mosazrebas da
aris Tu ara imis saSiSroeba, rom
„SaqaraSvilis saqme” Taroze
Semoidos?
_ Tu sazogadoebis reaqciiT
vimsjelebT, romelic Zalian
mwvavea, ar mgonia, rom „SaqaraSvilis
saqme” iseve Semoidos Taroze,
rogorc Semoido „afgan muxTarlis
saqme”. dRemde ar viciT, Sua
Tbilisidan rogor aRmoCnda adamiani
diliT baqoSi da sanam es
xelisufleba iqneba, amis Sesaxeb
verc gavigebT, radgan aris eWvi am
saqmeSi xelisuflebis CarevasTan
dakavSirebiT. sazogadoebis interesi
da sazogadoebrivi azris
zewola „SaqaraSvilis saqmesTan”
mimarTebiT imdenad maRalia, rom
ar velodebi mis Taroze Semodebas.
am SemTxvevaSi ar aqvs mniSvneloba,
am saqmis gamoZieba
daemTxveoda Tu ara winasaarCevno
periods. gamoZieba bolomde miva
da dasruldeba, ubralod, ramdenad
adekvaturad da obieqtur WeSmaritebad
aRiqvams sazogadoeba
gamoZiebis Sedegs, es aris mTavari
SekiTxva, Torem, ra Tqma unda, xelisufleba,
rac ar unda korumpirebuli,
sistemurad moSlili da
susti iyos, mainc iZulebuli iqneba,
daeqvemdebaros sazogadoebrivi
azris zewolas da es saqme
rac SeiZleba swrafad daamTavros.
ar velodebi am saqmis gadadebas,
magram ar var darwmunebuli, rom
sazogadoebas ar Seepareba eWvi im
gamoZiebaSi, romelsac „qarTuli
ocnebis” politikuri iaraRi, am
SemTxvevaSi, Sinagan saqmeTa saministro
da prokuratura atarebs.
_ mmarTveli gundis warmomad-
genlebi acxadeben, rom am Temas
opoziciuri partiebi poli-
tikuri miznebisTvis iyeneben. ras
upasuxebT maT am gancxadebas?
_ maT gancxadebas SemiZlia mxolod
erTi saxeli davarqva: es
aris utifroba, radgan Cveni politikuri
gundi, „evropuli saqarTvelo”,
yovelTvis Tavs ikavebs
spekulaciisgan. miT umetes, rodesac
aseTi sensitiuri sakiTxia, ra
Tqma unda, ar SeiZleba, rom saku-
Tari politikuri kapitali aseT
Temaze aaSenos politikurma partiam.
Cven amas ar vakeTebT, arc
dRes da arc arasdros. im politikuri
Zalisgan, romelmac ar-
Cevnebis wina dRes Tavis oponentebs
bavSvis qvevrSi CaxrCoba daabrala,
Semdeg amaze aago politikuri
kampania da amiT miiRo
saarCevno xmebi, maTgan yovelgvari
miTiTeba, rom viRac spekulirebs,
Cveulebrivad utifrobaa. yovelTvis,
maxsendeba maTi pirveli
mTavari prokuroris, arCil kbilaSvilis
gancxadeba, romelmac
Tqva: rom ara girgvlianisa da
robaqiZis gardacvaleba, Cven xelisuflebaSi
ver movidodiTo.
Cven, „evropuli saqarTvelo”, ki is
politikuri gundi ar varT,
romelic tragikul faqtebze cdilobs
Tavisi politikuri momavlis
aSenebas. „qarTuli ocnebis” mxridan
aseTi wamoZaxeba utifrobaa da
sxva araferi. Tu vinme spekulantia
politikuri mimarTulebiT da
ar iTvaliswinebs saxelmwifo interesebs,
es aris pirdapir
„qarTuli ocneba”.
_ prezident zurabiSvilis
gancxadeba „SaqaraSvilis saqmis”
Sesaxeb, roca man Tqva „vaJkacoba
mesmis, rodesac Cxubi erTi erTze
midiso”, xels uwyobs Tu ara Zal-
adobis romantizebas?
_ maSin, roca vxedavT, rom saxelmwifo
Zaladobs Tavis moqalaqeebze,
ojaxebSi, aseve mozardebze
aris Zaladoba da bolodroindeli
SaqaraSvilis Zalian tragikuli
faqti, am pirobebSi prezidentis
aseTi gancxadebebi, minimum,
upasuxismgeblo da gamaRizianebelia.
samwuxarod, salome zurabiSvilis
arc erTi gamosvla ar maxsendeba,
romelic gajerebuli ar
iyos sibriyveebiT, Semdeg ki Tavis
marTleba uxdeba. misi yvela gancxadeba
saxelmwifo interesebs
azianebs da prezidentis institutis
diskreditaciaa. asea, rodesac
adamianebi ki ar girCeven, aramed
SenTvis adgils yiduloben. zurabiSvili
ar aris Rirseuli prezidenti.
misi arseboba am poziciaze
sircxvilia, arc mikvirs, rodesac
is aseTi sisuleleebiT gamoirCeva.
velodebodi kidevac misgan ms-
`SaqaraSvilis
saqmeze~
sazogadoebas
bevri eWvi aqvs~
gavss gancxadebebs, _ saarCevno kampaniamac
ase Caiara, misi gamonaTqvamebis
„gapravebas” mTeli saxelisuflebo
gundi cdilobda.
_ „evropulma saqarTvelom”
sakonstitucio
cvlilebebs
pirveli mosmeniT mxari dauWira,
Tumca manamde acxadebdiT, rom
giorgi ruruas ukanono patimro-
bis gamo kenWisyraSi ar miiRebdiT
monawileobas. riT axsniT Tqveni
gundis gadawyvetilebas?
_ iyo safrTxe da warsuli
gamocdileba gvkarnaxobda, rom
ivaniSvils SeuZlia Tavisi sityvebis
darRveva da ise moqceva, rom
TiTqos dapireba ar gaucia. iyo
saSiSroeba, rom „qarTul ocnebas”
pirveli mosmenis dros Caegdo es
cvlilebebi, romelic sazogadoebis
dakveTaa. sazogadoebas surs,
rom misi mTavroba iyos koaliciuri
da ara erTi mmarTvelis qveS
moqceuli. Tavidan rom agvecilebina
kanonproqtis Cagdebis safrTxe
da ivaniSvils sababad ar
moedo, rom Cveni mxardaWeris gareSe
xmebi ar eyoT, Cven maSinac
ganvmarteT, _ swored amis gamo
SevediT pirvel mosmenaze da
vTqviT, rom 8 martis SeTanxmeba
Tu ar Sesruldeboda, momdevno
mosmenebze aRar mivcemdiT xmas.
Sesabamisad, ivaniSvils manevrirebis
saSualeba Caeketa, pirvel mosmenaze
Tu eqneboda xmebi, Semdeg
mosmenaze veRar ityoda, rom ar
hyofnida. mas ki yvelafris Tqma
SeuZlia, magram am SemTxvevaSi es
gauZneldeboda. amiT iyo Cveni
gadawyvetileba ganpirobebuli.
_ Tumca Tqveni mxardaWeris
gareSec hyofnidaT pirvelive
mosmenaze xmebi.
_ diax, magram Cveni kenWisyraSi
monawileobiT da am sakiTxis
dazRveviT ra daSavda?! mas Semdeg,
rac es kanonproeqti gavida, daiwyes
saubari, rom Cven gareSec hyofnidaT
xmebi, magram Cven rom ar
migveRo monawileoba, iyo saSiSroeba
eTqvaT, rom xmebi ar hyofnidaT.
garda amisa, Cven am nabijiT
Cvens partniorebs vaCveneT, rom
mzad viyaviT saubris gasagrZeleblad,
nabiji gadavdgiT 8 martis
SeTanxmebis Sesrulebisken da Semdeg
ukve burTi iyo ivaniSvilis
`me droebiTi sagamoZiebo komisiis wevri viyavi
da vnaxe, ramdeni TeTri ZafiT Sekerili
detali iyo `saraliZis saqmeSi~, rogor
cdilobdnen prokuraturis maRalCinosnebi
TavianTi gavlenis gamoyenebas da saqmis
mimarTulebis Secvlas. rodesac prokuratura
da policia iaraRia politikuri partiis
xelSi, aseT SemTxvevaSi ndoba am uwyebebis
mimarT dabalia da swored amiT unda avxsnaT,
rom SaqaraSvilis jer kidev gamouZiebel
saqmeze sazogadoebas Zalian bevri eWvi aqvs~
moedanze ruruas sakiTxis Sesaxeb.
_ sakonstitucio cvlilebebis
miRebis Semdeg mmarTveli gundi
acxadebda, rom axali opozi-
cia aRmoCnda konstruqciuli.
politologebis nawilma maTi
gancxadebebi moqmedi opoziciis
sateliti partiebiT Canacvlebis
mcdelobad aRiqva. Tqven rogor
gaigeT am frazis konteqsti?
_ saerTod aranairad ar aRviqvam
am frazis konteqsts! mTavaria,
yvela politikosma icodes, rom
Zalauflebis wyaro aris xalxi da
xalxi irCevs, vin iqneba xelisuflebaSi
da vin _ opoziciaSi. amas
arc irakli kobaxiZe, arc sofio
kilaZe da arc maTi „piarSikebi”
irCeven, romlebmac axla mesijboqsi
Seadgines, rom radikalurebi
da kriminalurebi gveZaxon, paralelurad
ki maTi partiidan guSin
gasuli politikosebi aqon. isini
ver gadawyveten, vin iqneba opoziciaSi.
gavixseneb ivaniSvilis gancxadebebs
misi mosvlis gariJraze,
roca is ambobda, rom opoziciaSi
unda yofiliyo nino burjanaZe, magram
amas ivaniSvili ver wyvets.
samwuxarod, mas SeuZlia gadawyvitos,
rogor moawyos abasTumani,
SeaerTos Tu ara mdinare, tba an
mTa. rodesac xelisufleba iwyebs
laparaks, rom mas unda opoziciis
Secvla da opoziciaSi im adamianebis
yofna, vinc moswons, es aris
swored avtoritarizmisken svla.
kobaxiZis mesijboqsze ki saerTod
araferia damokidebuli.
_ „qarTulma ocnebam” wina-
saarCevno samzadisi daiwyo da
saarCevno Stabis ufrosad irakli
kobaxiZe daniSna. risi maniSne-
belia es TqvenTvis?
_ irakli kobaxiZe gamoirCeva
politikuri oponentebis mimarT
araadekvaturi da, maT Soris, arakoreqtuli
gamonaTqvamebiT. SegaxsenebT,
rom is faSistebs eZaxis
Tavis politikur oponentebs, rac
Tundac imas adasturebs, rom mas
gaazrebulic ar aqvs, ramxela Seuracxyofaa
saerTod sazogadoebisTvis
aseTi terminebis braxuni.
kobaxiZe gamoirCeva siZulvilis
enis tiraJirebiT. is iyo erT-erTi
moTave, rodesac biZina ivaniSvilma
daarRvia Tavisi kontraqti sazogadoebasTan
da daarRvia proporciuli
saarCevno sistemis
miRebasTan dakavSirebiT SeTanxmeba.
misi saarCevno Stabis xelmZRvanelad
daniSvna niSnavs, rom
„qarTuli ocneba” winasaarCevno
brZolaSi isev gamoiyenebs akrZalul
meTodebs. SeiZleba, ganmeor-
12
12 N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
iaraRi Sss da prokuraturaa~
des korcxelis incidenti an vixiloT
uaresi SemTxvevebic, magram
aris momenti, rodesac xelisuflebas
veRar Svelis verc sajaro
moxeleebis jari, verc adamianebis
mosyidva da verc Zaladoba.
oqtomberSi swored es wuTi dadgeba,
rodesac am meTodebis miuxedavad
opozicia erTiani ZalebiT
SeZlebs ivaniSvilis opoziciaSi
gaSvebas.
_ „formulas” dakveTiT Edison
Research-is kvlevebSi mmarTveli
gundi 39%-iT liderobs, „evrop-
ul saqarTvelos” ki 5% gaqvT.
rogor gegmavT am maCveneblis
gazrdas 2020 wlis saparlamento
arCevnebisTvis?
_ vfiqrob, rom kvlevebis mimarT
undoblobis safuZveli ar gvaqvs,
maT Soris, arc Cvens nawilSi.
mimaCnia, rom korona epidemiam,
zogadad, yvela qveynis mTavrobis
mimarT ndoba gazarda da gamonaklisi
arc saqarTveloa, magram amis
miuxedavad „qarTuli ocneba”
40%-zedac ki ar asula. arCevnebamde
darCenilia ramdenime Tve, am
drois ganmavlobaSi saarCevno
kampaniis farglebSi mosaxleobas
ufro naTlad avuxsniT, rogor
vxedavT qveynis ganviTarebas, qveynis
koaliciuri mTavrobiT marTvas,
ra nabijebi unda gadaidgas,
rom ekonomika bolomde ar gaswordes
miwasTan, rasac dRes xels
uwyobs saqarTvelos mTavroba.
vfiqrobT, movaxerxeb Cveni reitingis
gazrdas da arCevnebSi sasurveli
procentis dadebas. rac Seexeba
„qarTul ocnebas”, kvlevebmac
aCvena, rom opozicias namdvilad
aqvs SesaZlebloba, „qarTuli
ocneba” ver moxvdes umravlesobaSi
da ver daakompleqtos
mTavroba.
_ Tqven aRniSneT, rom moaxerx-
ebT arCevnebSi sasurveli Sedegis
dadebas, rogoria TqvenTvis sa-
surveli Sedegi?
_ Cveni partia da, ra Tqma unda,
yvela politikuri jgufi motivirebulia,
rom mas hqondes iseTi
politikis gatarebis saSualeba,
rogoric warmoudgenia da ra gzi-
Tac qveyana unda midiodes, magram
es ar aris Cveni gadasawyveti, Tu ra
doziT miiRebs „evropuli saqar-
Tvelo” qveynis marTvaSi monawileobas,
amas gadawyvets xalxi arCevnebze.
yvela politikuri partia valdebulia,
rom xalxis arCevans daemorCilos.
dRes skeptikosebisgan
mesmis, rom ivaniSvili xelisuflebidan
ar wava. es CemTvis ubralod
sasaciloa, radgan roca xalxi gadawyvets,
rom is aRar iyos xelisuflebaSi,
aseT SemTxvevaSi xelisu-
`zurabiSvili ar aris Rirseuli prezidenti. misi
arseboba am poziciaze sircxvilia, arc mikvirs,
rodesac is aseTi sisuleleebiT gamoirCeva~
flebis SenarCunebas verc ivaniSvili
da verc veravin moaxerxebs.
_ yvela arCevnebze „evropuli
saqarTvelo” cdilobs, sazoga-
doebas daanaxos sxvaoba massa da
„nacionalur moZraobas” Soris. es
iqneba Tu ara Tqvens saarCevno ka-
mpaniaSi wina planze wamoweuli?
_ Cveni problema aris biZina
ivaniSvili da Cveni kampaniis warmoebisas
koncentirebuli viqnebiT
swored im problemebis warmoCeniT,
romelsac biZina ivaniSvili
uqmnis qveyanas. mTeli opoziciis
vali da mimarTulebac unda iyos
ivaniSvilis xelisuflebidan Camocileba.
„evropulma saqarTvelom”
amisTvis Zalian bevri gaake-
Ta, magaliTad, rodesac TbilisSi
vimuSaveT erTiani kandidatebis
dasaxelebaze, am nawilSi Cveni politikuri
jgufis roli Zalian
didia. rac Seexeba gansxvavebas sxva
opoziciur jgufebTan, ra Tqma
unda, maTgan ganvsxvavdebiT da
magitomac varT calke politikuri
partia, Torem viqnebodiT sxvebTan
erTad warmodgenili. „evropuli
saqarTvelos” mTavari xazia,
adamianebs gavagebinoT, ra
sikeTe SeiZleba hqondeT Tavisufali
sasamarTlos pirobebSi da im
SemTxvevaSi, roca Sinagan saqmeTa
saministro, saqarTvelos saxelmwifo
usafrTxoebis samsaxuri da
prokuratura ar arian politikuri
iaraRebi romelime politikuri
jgufis xelSi. rac Seexeba winaaarCevno
strategias, Zalian male
gveqneba Cveni programis prezentacia
da Cvens maJoritarebs davasaxelebT.
aseve Cvens amomrCevels
avuxsniT, rogor vapirebT am kampaniis
Catarebas.
iqneba Tu ara srulmasStabiani omi somxeTsa da azerbaijans Soris?
am dReebSi saerTaSoriso sazogadoebis yura-
Tengiz abloTia
dReba Cvens samezobloSi mimdinare movlenebi-
skenaa mipyrobili _ somxeTi da azerbaijani
erTmaneTTan isev omoben. marTalia, es omi lokaluria da erT-erT sasazRvro
regions ar gascdenia, masSi CarTulia jariskacebis sakmaod mcire raodeno-
ba da msxverplic minimaluria, aseTi afeTqebebi iq weliwadSi 1-2-jer xdeba,
Tumca realur omSi arc erTxel gadazrdila.
N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
am moklevadian omebSi gamarjvebac da
marcxic, ZiriTadad, propagandistuli xasiaTisaa
da maTi adgili mxolod satelevizio
sivrceebSia, realuri situacia ki yarabaRsa
da somxeTis mier okupirebul azerbaijanis
6 Sida raionSi ucvleli rCeba.
magram didi omis saSiSroeba mainc arsebobs
_ aravin icis, iqneb, amjerad yvelaferi
sxvanairad ganviTardes da seriozuli
konfliqti, bolos da bolos, daiwyos?..
2008 wlis agvistos omic xom, erTi
SexedviT, Cveulebrivi, TiTqmis tradiciad
qceuli ormxrivi lokaluri srolebiT
daiwyo.
maS, ramdenad didia samxreT kavkasiaSi
axali masStaburi omis Sansi?
amis SesaZlebloba yovelTvis aris iq,
sadac molaparakebebs azri dakarguli aqvs
da gayinul konfliqtSi aTwleulebis man-
Zilze araviTari progresi ar fiqsirdeba.
amitomac arasdros Tqva arasdros.
Tumca dRes, arsebul mocemulobaSi,
amis albaToba nulis toli Tu ara, Zalian
dabalia.
propagandistuli aRtyineba, informacia
mowinaaRmdege banakSi asobiT daRupuli
jariskacis, ganadgurebuli tankebis, TviTmfrinavebisa
da samxedro bazebis Sesaxeb,
masobrivi sixaruli ararsebuli saomari
gamarjvebebis gamo _ es ramdenic gnebavT.
Tumca namdvili omi Zalian naklebad
savaraudoa.
pirvel rigSi imitom, rom is aravis
sWirdeba.
ra Tqma unda, mSvidobis SenarCunebaSi
yvelaze metad somxeTia dainteresebuli.
erevans axali sisxlisRvris saerTod araviTari
motivacia ar gaaCnia _ somxebma TavianTi
saqme, jer kidev, 1993 wels Seasrules
da dRes maT omi araferSi sWirdebaT.
azerbaijans, erTi SexedviT, miwebis
ZaliT dabrunebis cdunebac da SesaZleblobac
aqvs.
1993 wels azerbaijani iseTive dasustebuli
da qaosur mdgomareobaSi myofi arasaxelmwifo
iyo, rogorc _ imdroindeli
saqarTvelo. somxeTis mier misi teritoriis
20%-is dakaveba swored amitom gaxda
SesaZlebeli _ qaossa da SidaaSlilobas
brZolis velze yovelTvis marcxi moaqvs...
qarTvelebze ukeTesad es vin icis?
ra Tqma unda, iseve rogorc CvenTan,
rusuli faqtori Zalian mniSvnelovania,
magram minimaluri organizebulobis SemTxvevaSi
teritoriuli danakargi gacilebiT
naklebi iqneboda _ magaliTad, saqarTvelos
odnav winaaRmdegoba rom gaewia, savaraudod,
galis raioni rusul-afxazur okupacias
gadaurCeboda.
igive azerbaijansac exeba _ rom ara qaosi
da sruli areuloba, pirvel rigSi, baqo-
Si, savaraudod, somxebi azerbaijanis 6 Sida
raions ar Seakvdebodnen. iq igive moxda,
rac afxazeTSi _ fronti sruliad moiSala
da mowinaaRmdegem uzarmazari teritoriebi,
yovelgvari brZolis gareSe, daikava
_ ubralod, xelSi Cauvarda.
Tumca es 1993 wels iyo, dRes ki 2020-ia.
daSlili da daqucmacebuli azerbaijani
didi xania, warsuls Cabarda. dRes is sakmaod
organizebuli, centralizebuli da,
rac mTavaria, mdidari qveyanaa.
dRes azerbaijanis samxedro potenciali,
1993 welTan SedarebiT, gacilebiT maRalia
_ qveyanaSi demografiuli afeTqebaa, mosaxleoba
8 mln.-s gadascda, SeiaraRebul
ZalebSi uzarmazari Tanxebi Caido. mokled,
baqo axali omisTvis sruliad mzadaa.
am ganwyobebs somxeTSi Seqmnili situaciac
aZlierebs _ qveynis mosaxleoba masobrivad
garbis ucxoeTSi da, savaraudod,
dRes somxeTSi 3 mln. adamianze naklebi
cxovrobs. Seudarebelia ori qveynis finansuri
SesaZleblobebic _ azerbaijani nav-
Tob-gazis mdidari samefoa, somxeTi ki _
Raribi da saxelmwifoebrivad susti, garesamyarosgan
TiTqmis mowyvetili qveyana.
Tumca am garegan upiratesobebs Soris
erTi naklovaneba aris, romelic yvelafer
zemoT CamoTvlils aufasurebs _ baqo mzad
ar aris swrafi, efeqtiani da usisxlo gamarjvebisTvis.
miuxedavad amisa, somxeTi mainc seriozuli
mowinaaRmdegea, yovel SemTxvevaSi, is
swrafad ar danebdeba da okupirebul teritoriebs
didi brZolis gareSe ar datovebs.
saubaria aTasobiT kvadratul kilometrze,
romelic dRes erevnis kontrolqve-
Saa, Tanac xSir SemTxvevaSi maRalmTian
regionSi omis warmoeba Zalian rTulia.
Tavisi upiratesobebi somxeTsac aqvs _
pirvel rigSi mosaxleobis Zalian maRali
motivacia, romelic dapyrobili teritoriebis
kontrols erovnuli Rirsebis sakiTxad
miiCnevs.
arc demografiul da finansur sakiTxebSia
yvelaferi ise uimedod, rogorc erTi
SexedviT Cans _ aq ukve iseTi mniSvnelovani
faqtori moqmedebs, rogoric mravalricxovani
da mdidari somxuri diasporaa.
ucxoeTSi mcxovreb somxebsa da oficialur
erevans Soris urTierTobebi arc-
Tu ise kargia, Tumca omis SemTxvevaSi yvela
uTanxmoeba da pretenzia meore planze
gadava _ mTeli msofliodan somxeTisken
fuli da moxaliseebis nakadi daiZreba.
90-ian wlebSi ase iyo, savaraudod, igive
ganmeordeba dResac.
azerbaijans am omSi gamarjvebis Sansi
aqvs, magram ara _ garantia. Tanac yvela
SemTxvevaSi omi iqneba xangrZlivi, mZime da
sisxlismRvreli. patriotuli aJitireba
male gaivlis, saerTaSoriso sazogadoebrioba
baqos qmedebebs aucileblad SeewinaaRmdegeba,
investorebi Sewuxdebian.
baqos haeriviT sWirdeba gamarjveba _
oRond swrafi da umtkivneulo. yvelaferi,
maqsimum, erT kviraSi unda dasruldes _
sanam aRtyinebam ar Caira, sanam evropaamerika
azrze movida, sanam omma safondo
birJebze gadainacvla.
yvelaze didi _ erTi kvira. dRes ki es
sruliad warmoudgenelia.
aris aseve sagareo faqtorebi. ra Tqma
unda, yvelaferi zemoT aRwerili azrs kargavs,
Tu omSi TurqeTi CaerTo _ es sxva
woniTi kategoriaa da somxeTi mas seriozul
winaaRmdegobas ver gauwevs.
Tumca swored amitomaa somxeTSi rusuli
bazebi. moskovma Zalian kargad icis, rom
sakuTari ZalebiT azerbaijani swraf da
usisxlo gamarjvebas ver miaRwevs da somxeTis
rusuli samxedro mxardaWera swored
TurqeTis SeCerebazea gaTvlili. ankara ki
ruseTTan oms ver gabedavs _ erdoRani azerbaijanTan
megobrobaze bevrs ilaparakebs,
yvelanair mxardaWeras Sehpirdeba, iqneba
propaganda, sayovelTao patriotuli
mowodebebi, sixarulis cremlebi, Zmuri
Caxuteba, mokled, yvelaferi _ samxedro
daxmarebis garda.
swored amitom arasdros Tqva arasdros,
Tumca axali somxur-azerbaijanuli omi
TiTqmis gamoricxulia. cota xanSi yvelaferi
Cveul normas daubrundeba.
13
samarTlianobis aRdgenis da-
Sorena marsagiSvili
pirebiT mosul xelisuflebas
599 92 16 22
Zalian bevri gaxmaurebuli saqme
daugrovda gamosaZieblad. is
veRarc imiT iwonebs Tavs, rom misi mmarTvelobis dros ax-
algazrdebs quCaSi aRar xocaven.
ratom ar dgindeba sazRvre-
bi? ra xdeba mmarTveli partiis
kuluarebSi? ras da ratom ver
iyofen „ocnebaSi” arsebuli
klanebi? samarTlianobis aRdgenis
dapirebiT mosuli xelisufleba
Tavad ratom gaxda usa-
marTlobis Semoqmedi? ratom
datantalebs prezidenti fex-
SiSveli? ra safrTxeebs uqmnis
somxeTsa da azerbaijans Soris
ganaxlebuli konfliqti saqar-
Tvelos? _ am Temebis Sesaxeb
„qronika+”-s „erTiani saqarTve-
lo _ demokratiuli moZraobis”
generaluri mdivani, gigla
baramiZe esaubreba:
_ batono gigla, rodesac
„qarTuli ocneba” xelisufle-
baSi movida yvelas egona, rom
axalgazrdebs aRar daxocavd-
nen. Tavadac xSirad usvamdnen
xazs im garemoebas, rom Cvens
dros quCaSi aravis klaveno.
dRes es suraTi radikalurad
Secvlilia. ratom mivida saqme
aqamde?
_ dRes axalgazrdebs ara marto
quCaSi, aramed sakuTar saxlebSic
da saZinebelSic klaven.
giorgi SaqaraSvilis mkvlelobam
mTeli saqarTvelo SeZra. am sazarel
SemTxvevas ase Sevafasebdi
_ gamocxadebuli sikvdilis
qronika jigrul pontSi. qarTul
jigrul pontze TvalpaWuna premieri
gvesaubra. mis gancxadeba-
Si kargad ikveTeboda xelisuflebis
xedvebi yvela mimarTulebiT.
giorgi SaqaraSvilis aseTi
gametebac swored jigruli pontis
konteqstSi jdeba. sazogadoebis
udides nawils ar gvjera
im versiebis, rasac xelisufleba
gvTavazobs. viRacas SeiZleba ar
moewonos, rasac axla vityvi, magram
faqti jiutia _ media rom
ara, araferi gvecodineboda am
saqmeze. erTsac davamateb: am axalgazrdis
gadarCena SeiZleboda,
yvela rom Tavis adgilze
yofiliyo. am tragediam dRevandeli
sistemis mTeli TvalTmaqcoba
da farisevloba gamoavlina,
romelmac araferi gaakeTa imisTvis,
rom axalgazrda gadaerCina.
gvamunaTeben da wina xelisuflebisken
iSveren xels. medias,
opoziciasa da arasamTavroboebs
brals sdeben, _ SaqaraSvilis
mkvlelobas politikuri
miznebisTvis iyenebTo. arc ki vici,
rogor ganvasxvavo Zveli da
moqmedi xelisuflebebi erTmaneTisgan,
iseTi msgavsebaa maT Soris.
bevr rameSi „qarTulma ocnebam”
„nacionalebs” gadaaswro.
minda, mivmarTo „qarTuli ocnebis”
warmomadgenlebs: Tqve
farisevlebo, visze ambobT, rom
mkvlelobas politikuri miznebisTvis
iyeneben?! Tqven ar iyaviT
2012 wlis pirveli oqtombris
arCevnebis wina Rames, 9 Tvis bar-
14
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
`gamocxadebuli sikvdilis
599 92 16 22 gigla baramiZe:
bare rafaliancis mkvleloba
politikuri miznebisTvis rom
gamoiyeneT? mTeli partia xafi
xmiT gahkiodoT amaze. ambavi
gurjaanSi moxda da zugdidis
maJoritarobis kandidati naxevar
saaTSi ranairad gaCnda iq,
romelic yvela gaTvlebiT zugdidSi
unda yofiliyo? eseni sxvas
ra namusiT eubnebian, rom mkvlelobas
politikuri miznebisTvis
iyenebTo?
aseve ar SemiZlia xazi ar gavusva
im faqts, Tu rogor ambrazurasaviT
aris gadafarebuli
mTeli sistema Ss saministros
pressamsaxuris ufross. gvasmenineben
raRac tyuilebs 112-Si vi-
Tom ganxorcielebul zarTan
dakavSirebiT. Ss ministris erTerTma
moadgilem brifingi Caatara
mxolod imisTvis, rom pressamsaxuris
ufrosi gamoeZvrina.
roca Jurnalistebma saqmeze
kiTxvebi dausves, brifingidan
gavarda, _ am saqmeSi Caxeduli
ara varo. Ss ministris moadgilem
nino giorgobianis gasaTeTreblad
patruls daamxo yvelaferi
Tavze.
_ ras gulisxmobT? raSi gam-
oixata, rom patruls Tavze
daamxo yvelaferi?
_ misi gancxadebiT patruls
araferi SeuZlia, arc operatiuli
saqmianobis Catareba, arc
raRac obieqtis moZebna... fexebze
kidiaT yvela instituti, oRond
konkretuli Cinovniki gamoaZvrinon.
erTi xazidan meore
xazze rom gadavide, patrulis 5
ekipaJi momadgeba da jarimas gamomiwers.
im Rames mcxeTaSi, centralur
gzaze, manqanebis Sligini
iyo, rkinis joxebiT darbodnen
axalgazrdebi. vkiTxulob:
sad iyo am dros mcxeTis policia?!
sad iyo patruli?! sistema
yars da absoluturad gaTaxsirebulia.
yvelam viciT, jigrul
pontSi ra gakeTdeboda _
darekavda giorgobiani, Cems
naTesavs uWirs da gamoarideTo.
gamoridebul naTesavs sxva
RonisZiebaze gauSvebda, xalxs
rame eWvi rom ar aeRo. iq am naTesavma
bevri foto gadaiRo da ar
viciT, ra saxis fotoebia gada-
Rebuli. samagierod viciT, rom
man gamoZieba moatyua _ cru
Cveneba misca.
Cveni samarTaldamcvelebi
arafers akeTeben saqmis gamosa-
Zieblad. siuJetebsa da scenarebs
weren imis mixedviT, Tu ra politikuri
situacia iqneba. mediisgan
ra mimarTulebas dainaxaven,
im mimarTulebiT iwyeben muSaobas,
maTi mopasuxe xdebian. aman
„xoravas quCis saqme” gamaxsena. 16
wlis biWi aCexes. skolis direqtori
gamovida da bavSvze ki ar
itira, Tavis marTlebaze gadavida,
_ mkvleloba skolis teritoriaze
ar momxdarao. aseT cnobiereba
dakargul Cinovnikebs
rom Caugdes saZarcvavad qveyana,
magitom gvaqvs saqme kargad. amitom
vambob, jigrul pontSi xdeba
yvelaferi.
_ qarTul jigrul pontSi
qveyanaSi yvelaze metad koruf-
cia ayvavda.
_ jigrul pontSi araa, rom
prezidentad matrona dagviniSnes?
yvela sxva sikeTesTan er-
Tad axla am qalma fexSiSvelma
daiwyo siaruli. romeli wminda
nino eg myavs an Tamar mefe? fex-
SiSvel siaruls urCevnia, Tavisi
gafuWebuli saqme gamoasworos.
_ ra saqme?
_ daviTgarejaSi misi gancxdebebis
gamo Seiqmna problema. Cvenma
saxelmwifom es problema unda
moagvaros. am saqmis ase datoveba
ar SeiZleba.
_ prezidentze vsaubrobT da
`ocnebaSi~
arsebuli klanebi
arCevnebisTvis
gamoyofil fuls
ver iyofen~
mis gancxadebaze ras ityviT, va-
Jkacoba rom erTi erTze Cxubi
hgonia? esec qarTuli jigruli
pontis gamovlinebaa?
_ provincielebi da goimebi
parizis gareubanSic ibadebian da
_ saqarTveloSic. imaze aRarafers
vambob, Tu rogor dagvisves
es qali prezidentad. Cven
gvyavs mTavarsardali, romlis
yovel gancxadebas momTargmneli
sWirdeba. rac Cxubze Tqva, uzneobaa!
ras niSnavs, erTi erTze
Cxubi vaJkacobaa?! erTi adamiani
meores Cxubis dros Tu moklavs,
es gamarTlebulia? adelfos
samisnoSi iyvnen midiebi, romlebic
bundovnad laparakobdnen,
magram ganmmarteblebi hyavdaT.
axla etyoba, egeTi Stati unda
davuSvaT prezidentis administraciaSi.
Cveni jibidan unda vuxadoT
xelfasi ganmmartebels,
raTa man gviTargmnos, Tu risi
`dRes axalgazrdebs ara marto quCaSi, aramed
sakuTar saxlebSic da saZinebelSic klaven.
giorgi SaqaraSvilis mkvlelobam mTeli
saqarTvelo SeZra. am sazarel SemTxvevas ase
Sevafasebdi - gamocxadebuli sikvdilis
qronika jigrul pontSi. qarTul jigrul
pontze TvalpaWuna premieri gvesaubra. mis
gancxadebaSi kargad ikveTeboda xelisuflebis
xedvebi yvela mimarTulebiT. giorgi
SaqaraSvilis aseTi gametebac swored jigruli
pontis konteqstSi jdeba~
Tqma surda misan salomeas. dadis
iqiT-aqeT, Tavisi WkuiT, saqar-
Tvelos siZveleebs gvaswavlis.
ase Tu giyvars, wadi da gelaTSi
rac xdeba, is gaaproteste. misma
damniSnavma xelisuflebam Tavisi
sisuleliT da situtuciT
mravalsaukunovani freskebi gamdinar
wyals Camoarecxina. mivmarTav
prezidents: gelaTis
freskebis Camorecxva gaaprotesteT
da da Wkuas nu gvaswavliT.
_ gelaTis mravalsaukunovani
freskebi rom Camoirecxa, cudia,
magram amis sapasuxod nebismieri
„qoci” ityvis, rom samagi-
erod biZinam dendrologiuri
parki mogviwyoo.
_ amaT didi xania, tvinSi aqvT
dendrologiuri parki. marTla
ra SegvWames am parkiT? gaixsna da
gaixsna! amaSi cuds verafers vxedav,
ubralod, erTis gakeTebiT
meore ar unda gafuWdes. eseni
arian aseTi kategoriis xalxi, _
unaxavma ra naxao. mdabioebis
klasteri, romelic aiRes da
dades xelisuflebaSi. axla yvelafers
akeTeben Zalauflebis
SesanarCuneblad. rame Tu xdeba,
wina xelisuflebisken iSveren
xels. yvelafers gvamadlian, rac,
pirvel rigSi, Cveni bralia.
_ Cveni brali ratom aris?
_ imitom, rom sazogadoeba
maT mimarT Zalian loialuria.
mxolod partiebs ar vgulisxmob,
sazogadoebac loialuria „qar-
Tuli ocnebis” mimarT da Sedegic
saxezea.
_ sazogadoeba aseTi loialuri
rom ar yofiliyo, ivaniS-
vili „ocnebis” saarCevno Stabs
ageresiiT gamorCeul kobaxiZes
ar Caabarebda.
_ „qarTuli ocnebis” arSemdgari
vunderkindi gveubneboda
opozocias, Tavebs dagiTvliTo.
biZinas adgilze magas saerTod
ar gamovaCendi. misi fsiqotipi
absoluturad dazianebulia. amas
sruli pasuxismgeblobiT vambob.
aseT adamianebs ar SeiZleba hqondeT
mdgomareoba. saqarTveloSi
msgavsi personebi adrec gvyolia
maRal postebze da kargad viciT,
risi gakeTeba SeuZliaT maT
_ rogorc ki Zalauflebas miscem,
saSinelebebs daatrialeben.
14 N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
qronika jigrul pontSi~
kobaxiZe iqneboda davalebis kargi
Semsrulebeli _ wadi-modi,
iyavi wynarad da aiRe xelfasi.
aseT agresiuls, cudi emociisas
rom Caabareb arCevnebs, es erTi
ramis maniSnebelia _ mmarTvel
partias saerTod ar adardebs sazogadoebrivi
azri. opoziciis
azrze aRarafers vambob.
_ biZina ivaniSvils opozici-
isa da sazogadoebis azri rom ar
ainteresebs viciT, magram dasav-
leTSi ras ityvian? kobaxiZe
evroparlamentarebsa da amer-
ikel politikosebsac lanZRavs.
_ dasavleTis azri SeiZleba
ainteresebs, magram irakli kobaxiZeze
ukeTesi vin hyavs gundSi?
vin arian mis garSemo? _ koleqtiuri
asineTebi. ukeTesi ver ipova
da amas Caabara saarCevno
Stabi.
_ gaxariasTvis rom Caebare-
bina, ar sjobda? isic ki isvris
„margalitebs”, magram kobaxiZisa
da sxvebis fonze bevrad soli-
durad gamoiyureba.
_ irakli kobaxiZes giorgi gaxaria
rogor ar sjobda, es ukanaskneli
„ocnebis” sxva CinosnebTan
SedarebiT bevrad qmedunariania,
magram misTvis saarCevno
Stabis Cabareba ar gamovidoda.
_ ratom?
_ es uTanxmoebebs gamoiwvevda.
iqiT kalaZis klasteria, gaxariac
calkea. es ori erTmaneTs
daetaka. ivaniSvils arc erTis
ganawyeneba ar surda. amitom Caabara
saarCevno Stabi kobaxiZes,
romelic sul calkea. „qarTul
ocnebaSi” seriozuli daZabulobaa.
partiuli siis Sedgenaze didi
ambebi iyo da aris. klanebis
warmomadgenlebi cdiloben, rac
SeiZleba meti xalxi Seyaron
gamsvlel adgilebze. aseve didi
interesi aqvT, rom xelSi Caigdon
arCevnebisTvis gamoyofili
fuli. aq marto oficialur
Tanxebze araa saubari. aris araoficialuri
Tanxebic, is deklarirebuli
ar iqneba, magram es fuli
arsebobs. aseTi fuliT amuSaveben
TavianT trolebisa da
botebis qarxnebs. wamdauwum rom
iqmneba brigadebi, imaTac xom
sWirdebaT fuli? sportsmenebi
da e. w. Zveli biWebi ise xom ar
irbenen? im Zveli biWebis ra vTqvi,
xuT organosTan rom TanamSromloben
da mere quCaSi „blataoben”.
erT jibeSi erTi uwyebis
qsiva udevT, meoreSi _ meoris,
mesameSi _ mesamis da a. S. aseTi
xalxi mravlad, hyavs „ocnebas”
da maT Wama sma da raRac saxsrebi
xom sWirdebaT?! konkretuli
faqtebi ar maqvs, magram darwmunebuli
var, araoficialuri Tanxebi
maTTvis aris gamoyofili.
swored am fulis gakontrolebaze
xocaven „ocnebaSi” arsebuli
klanebi erTmaneTs. am viTarebaSi
kalaZis an gaxarias saarCevno
Stabis ufrosad daniSvna
viTarebas kidev ufro gaamwvavebda.
problemebi rom ar Seqmniliyo,
saarCevno Stabis ufrosad
magitom dasves es geniosa kobaxiZe.
`im Rames mcxeTaSi, centralur gzaze, manqanebis Sligini iyo, rkinis joxebiT
darbodnen axalgazrdebi. vkiTxulob: sad iyo am dros mcxeTis policia?!
sad iyo patruli?! sistema yars da absoluturad gaTaxsirebulia. yvelam
viciT, jigrul pontSi ra gakeTdeboda - darekavda giorgobiani, Cems
naTesavs uWirs da gamoarideTo. gamoridebul naTesavs sxva RonisZiebaze
gauSvebda, xalxs rame eWvi rom ar aeRo~
_ saarCevno Stabis ufrosad
kobaxiZis daniSvnas sazogadoe-
baSi agresia mohyva. opozicia
gamoiyenebs amas Tavis sasarge-
blod?
_ es aucileblad iqoniebs gavlenas
amomrCevelze. opoziciam
erT mniSvnelovan Sedegs ukve
miaRwia: aseTi gansxvavebis miuxedavad,
erTad davdeqiT da „qar-
Tuul ocnebas” didi aferis Semdeg
sakonstitucio cvlilebebi
mivaRebineT. Cveni partia damoukideblad
iyris keWs, yovelgvari
blokebis gareSe. cvlileba,
romelic opoziciam erTiani
ZalebiT miaRebina, xelisuflebis
interesSi araa. proporciul-
Tan miaxloebul arCevnebSi isini
veRar SeZleben umravlesobis
mopovebas. amis miuxedavad mainc
amboben, rom isev umravlesobiT
movlen xelisuflebaSi. vafrTxileb
maT, rom es ambavi ar gamouvaT
da nu daZabaven isedac zambarasaviT
daWimul situacias.
Caataron arCevnebi normalurad,
Torem mis Sedegebs arc partie-
N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
bi da arc saerTaSoriso Tanamegobroba
aRiareben. „qarTuli
ocnebis” umravlesobiT mosvla,
ubralod, gamoricxulia
_ ratom aris gamoricxuli?
_ xalxi aRar uWers mxars da
saidan unda moitanon es procentebi?
gaayalbeben? miiReben sakadriss
pasuxs. aravin scnobs am
arCevnebis Sedegebs. amas kargi
ambebi ar mohyveba da Tu rame moxdeba,
es mxolod xelisuflebis
brali iqneba. ar aqvT maT 40-50%
da daanebon zRaprebs Tavi.
_ ra 40-50%? mamuka mdinar-
aZem Tqva, saerTod, 55%-iani
mxardaWera gvaqvso.
_ sasaciloa. ra 55%, saidan
moitanes? amxela mxardaWera ver
eqnebaT.
_ koronavirusma xelisuflebas
mniSvnelovnad gauzarda reitingi.
amas opoziciac xom aRi-
arebT?
_ pandemia rom daiwyo, Tavidan
marTla aiwia „ocnebis” reitingma,
magram mere viTareba Seicvala.
xalxi saxlebSi gamoketes,
`iqiT kalaZis klasteria, gaxariac calkea. es
ori erTmaneTs daetaka. ivaniSvils arc erTis
ganawyeneba ar surda. amitom Caabara saarCevno
Stabi kobaxiZes, romelic sul calkea. `qarTul
ocnebaSi~ seriozuli daZabulobaa~
samsaxurebi daakargvines da arc
kompensacia misces. vin iqneba
kmayofili? maTi procenti 26-is
zeviTac ar adis.
_ bolo kvlevebis mixedviT,
kargi maCvenebeli arc Tqvens
partias aqvs. amaze ras gvet-
yviT?
_ Cven ar ganvicdiT im dabal
procentebs, romelic bolo kvlevam
dagviwera. aseTi kvlevebi
fsiqologiuri zewolis erT-er-
Ti iaraRia. ase Cvenc CavatarebT
kvlevebs da yvelaze maRali procenti
Cven gveqneba. amitom ar
Rirs amaze seriozuli saubari.
viciT, rom seriozuli mxardaWera
gvaqvs. arc imaSi gvepareba eWvi,
rom parlamentSi movxvdebiT.
_ maJoritarobis kandidate-
bis dayenebas ar apirebT?
_ ara. Cven partiul siaze
vmuSaobT. Tavidanve winaaRmdegi
viyaviT maJoritarobis.
_ opoziciis maJoritarobis
kandidatebs Tu daexmarebiT?
_ sxva opoziciur ZalebTan,
ra Tqma unda, gveqneba koordinacia,
Tundac imitom, rom ar
gagviyalbon arCevnebi. mTavari
isaa, xalxis winaSe viyoT pirnaTeli.
srulad proporciul
arCevnebs viTxovdiT da ar vayenebT
maJoritarebs. xalxis moTxovnac
srulad proporciuli
iyo. srulad proporciuli sistema
ver miviReT, magram cvlilebebi
amomrCevels saSualebas
aZlevs, rom arc „naci” airCios
da arc _ „qoci”. Zalian didia
arCevani. axla maTzea damokidebuli,
vis miscemen xmas. ra sazogadoebac
gvyavs, iseTivea
politikuri partiebic. yvela
unda wavides arCevnebze, arc
erTi xma ar unda daikargos. sazogadoeba,
romelic irCevs uRirss
xelisuflebas, is misi msxverpli
ki ar xdeba, aramed misi
uRirsi saqmeebis Tanamonawilea.
30 welia, aseTi suraTia saqar-
TveloSi da erTxelac xom unda
damTavrdes es? keTili inebos
amomrCevelma da gaakeTos arCevani.
_ Tqven saqarTvelos elCi
iyaviT somxeTSi: ras fiqrobT
somxeT-azerbaijanis konfl-
iqtze? rame problemebi xom ar
Segveqmneba amis gamo?
_ ara mgonia, rom saqarTvelo
am konfliqtma daazaralos; rom
azerbaijanma somxeTis atomuri
eleqtrosadguri dabombos. arc
somxeTi dabombavs mingeCauris
wyalsacavs. orive Cveni mezobelia
da valdebuli varT, diplomatia
avamoqmedoT, magram sad
gvyavs diplomatebi? Cvens sagareo
saqmeTa ministrs veZaxi: „miSveleT,
cudad var”. aseTi gamometyveleba
aqvs daviT zalkalians.
magis gakeTebuli samSvidobo
politika ar gaiSva. magram
saerTaSoriso Tanamegobroba
iaqtiurebs. baqosa da erevans
seriozul miTiTebebs miscemen
da moiTxoven, rom cecxli Sewyviton.
somxeTsa da azerbaijans Soris
saqarTvelo Suamavlis funqcias
ver ikisrebs, diplomatia ar
gvaqvs, magram sazRvrebis dadgenaze
mainc xom unda vifiqroT?
Tumca meeWveba, amaT demilitacia-demarkaciis
sakiTxebi moagvaron.
elementarulad, es Tema
ar ainteresebT. mxolod imas
gaiZaxian, ruseTi sazRvars wevso.
esec imis bralia, rom saxelmwifo
sazRvari dadgenili ar
aris. ruseTTan gasagebi viTarebis
gamo ver vadgenT sazRvrebs,
magram sxva mezobel saxelmwifoebTanac
rom problema gvaqvs,
aravisTan araa sazRvari dadgenili.
yvelgan Cveni interesebis
sawinaaRmdego viTarebaa.
_ erTaderTi TurqeTTan
aris dadgenili sazRvari, isic
sabWoTa kavSirma daadgina da
darCa.
_ ra xeiri? am dadgenili
sazRvrebidanac aTeulobiT SeiaraRebuli
piri Semodis saqar-
TveloSi. isini Tveebis manZilze
cxovroben Tbilissa da baTumSi.
Semodian teroristebic da, lamis,
samxedro bazebs awyoben. axmed
Cataevs TbilisSi mTeli arsenali
hqonda im saxlSi, sadac cxovrobda.
misi Semosvla xelisuflebam
viTom ver gaigo? rogor
gaigebdnen, korufciaSi arian Caflulebi.
politikuri neba rom
iyos, erT TveSi SeiZleba xalxisa
da saxelmwifosTvis waglejili
2.5 miliardis uZrav-moZravi
qonebis dabruneba. amisTvis
saWiroa antikorufciuli samsaxuris
arseboba. amaT antikorufciulisTvis
sad scaliaT?! _ qal-
Ta kvotirebaze gvelaparakebian.
Tamar mefis qveyanaSi am Temaze
saubari uxerxulia. ra uflebiT
misazRvravs viRac, siaSi vin Cavwero?!
saqarTveloSi qalTa uflebebi
yovelTvis daculi iyo, es
kvotireba ki, pirvel rigSi, qalebs
Seuracxyofs _ e. i. isini sia-
Si mxolod imitom xvdebian, rom
kvotireba moiTxovs amas da ara
imis gamo, rom saqmis profesionalebi
arian. am ideis avtorebs
qalebi saerTod ar ainteresebT.
aq sxva ramea Cadebuli. ramdenime
weliwdSi mogvTxoven, rom
siaSi yoveli mesame lgbt Temis
warmomadgeneli CavsvaT.
15
Sorena marsagiSvili
599 92 16 22
„qarTuli ocnebis” saarCevno
Stabis xelmZRvanelad irakli kobaxiZis daniSvnas sazogadoeba-
Si uaryofiTi gamoxmaureba mohyva. opoziciis azriT, parlamen-
tis eqsspikeris win wamoweviT ivaniSvilma yvelas mianiSna, rom
mmarTvel partias agresiuli saarCevno kampania eqneba. naspik-
erali Tavisi uxeSobiT da uzrdelobiT marTlac gamoirCeva.
„axali saqarTvelos” lideri giorgi vaSaZe „qarTuli ocnebis”
Stabis ufrosad kobaxiZis daniSvnas miesalmeba. misi TqmiT, es
opoziciisTvis kargia. vaSaZe fiqrobs, rom parlamentis yofili
Tavmjdomaris dawinaureba moskovisTvis gagzavnili mesijia.
ra mesiji gaugzavna oli-
garqma moskovs? ras niSnavs
kobaxiZisTvis saarCevno Sta-
bis Cabareba? ra Sansebi aqvs am
arCevnebze opozicias? ratom
ar unda daesxnen Tavs erTmaneTs
opozicionerebi? _ am Te-
mebis Sesaxeb giorgi vaSaZe
„qronika+~-s esaubreba:
_ batono giorgi, gaer-
Tianebulma opoziciam isanSi
maJoritarad wargadginaT, magram
am mimarTulebiT aqti-
uroba jer ar dagiwyiaT, xom
ar agvianebT?
_ Zalian miyvars sistemuri
muSaoba da asec mivudeqiT isnis
raions. farTomasStabiani
kvleva CavatareT, adamianebi
gamovkiTxeT. vmuSaobT TiToeul
moqalaqesTan. am mimarTulebiT
muSaoba ar damigvianebia,
yvelaferi piriqiT aris.
Cvens gunds isanSi ukv 10.000-
12.000 ojaxTan hqonda Semxebloba.
gamovikiTxeT, Tu ra undaT
maT; movismineT, ra mdgomareobaa
raionSi. nebismieri
arCevnebis mTavari sakiTxi is ki
ar aris, Tu ra gvinda politikoss
an partias, aramed is, Tu
ra unda xalxs. aqedan gamomdinare,
xalxis mosmena daviwyeT.
2.000-mde adamianma gamoTqva
survili, rom Cveni gundis
wevri gaxdes. mxardamWeri gacilebiT
bevria. vfiqrob, es Zalian
didi resursia. Cveni mxardamWerebis
raodenoba, albaT,
kidev ufro gaizrdeba. jer mxolod
mosaxleobis 30% gamovkiTxeT.
isanSi mwyobri strategiiT
mivdivarT. rac Seexeba
Cems gegmebs, isanSi pirvelive
turSi vapireb gamarjvebas.
_ aseTi darwmunebuli ra-
tom xarT?
_ es rom ase iqneba, amaze miuTiTebs
yvela kvleva. maJoritarul
arCevnebSi gamarjvebas
mxolod parlamentSi mosaxvedrad
ar vgegmav, es CemTvis yvelaze
naklebad sainteresoa.
_ aba, ratom iyriT kenWs ma-
Joritarad?
_ minda, rom magaliTi Sevqmna,
Tu rogor SeiZleba gamarjvebulma
kandidatma miaqcios
yuradReba sakuTar raions da
is problemebi gadawyvitos,
romlis mogvarebasac amomrCeveli
iTxovs.
_ jer aseTi ram ar momx-
dara, rom arCevnebis mogebis
Semdeg maJoritar deputats
Tavis raionze ezrunos.
_ es stereotipi unda daingres.
adamianma, romelic arCevnebSi
imarjvebs, is dapirebebi
unda Seasrulos, rac arCevnebis
win gasca. 2012 wels mZlavri
kampania mqonda isnis raionSi.
rom ara garkveuli movlenebi,
is arCevnebi sul sxva SedegiT
dasruldeboda. bevrs axsovs
16
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
aRniSnuli kampania isanSi. es
raioni CemTvis Zalian axlobelia
_ yvela quCasa da ubans vicnob.
uamrav adamianTan makav-
Sirebs nacnoboba da arc maTi
problemebia CemTvis ucxo. aqedan
gamomdinare warvadgen
Cvens gegmas. isani gaxdeba urbanuli
ganviTarebis magaliTi
rogorc TbilisSi, aseve sruliad
saqarTveloSi; yvela naxavs,
rogor unda ganviTardes raionuli
tipis dasaxlebebi; naxaven
imasac, Tu rogor SeiZleba
aqve samuSao adgilebis Seqmna;
naxaven, Tu rogor unda mivaqcioT
yuradReba socialurad
SeWirvebul adamianebs.
_ xelisufleba ase iolad
ar daTmobs Tavis poziciebs.
mzad xarT im provokaciebisTvis,
rac „qarTuli ocne-
bidan” SeiZleba wamovides?
_ rva welia, rac politikaSi
var. am provokaciebisTvis ukve
gamovibrZmede. provokaciebs
axlac gviwyoben da magaliTsac
mogiyvanT: Cven sabanko sesxebTan
dakavSirebiT xelmowerebs
vagrovebT. viTxovT maT Semcirebas.
Cvens warmomadgenlebTan
zedamxedvelobis samsaxuris
TanamSromlebi midian da ajarimeben
agitaciis dros.
_ mizezi?
_ ratom dgas baneri, sadac
adamianebi midian da xels aweren
Cvens iniciativas? _ aseTi
precedenti arasdros yofila,
pirvelad xdeba. am yvelafers
aucileblad gavasaCivrebT
sasamarTloSi. es aris ukanonoba
da Tavisufali saqmianobis
SezRudva. amas Cven ar vemor-
CilebiT da xelmowerebis Segrovebas
vagrZelebT. Tavidan
undodaT, rom Cveni banerebi
aeRoT. roca piradad me TanagundelebTan
erTad adgilze
mivedi, ukan daixies. am mimarTulebiT
aRar aris problema,
magram jarimebs isev gviweren.
daweron da iyvnen.
_ is mainc Tu gaarkvieT, ra
kanons arRvevT, ris gamoc ja-
rimdebiT? raRac mizezi xom
unda arsebobdes?
_ ver gavarkvieT, radganac
jer arc erTi uwyeba ar mogvsvlia.
piriqiT, Cven vaZlevT iqiT
dokuments, Tu romeli muxliT
gvaqvs im saqmianobis ufleba,
rasac vaxorcielebT. sajaro
agitaciis SezRudvis ufleba
aravis gaaCnia. es yvelaferi
konstituciiT garantirebuli
gvaqvs. ra safuZvels udeben
jarimas, ar viciT. diliT Cveni
gundis wevrebi midian, xelmowerebs
agroveben da jarimebiT
brundebian. am jarimebis gamoweras
sabanko seqtors vukavSireb.
Cveni iniciativiT sabanko
seqtors seriozulad davartyiT
_ is mosaxleobas Zarcvavs!
ra mesiji gaugzavna
giorgi vaSaZe:
`ivaniSvilma
`ocnebis~
saarCevno
Stabis ufrosad
gavrilovi
daniSna~
koronavirusma ufro metad gamoaCina
es. pensioneri 36%-ian
sesxs ar unda ixdides. es warmoudgenelia!
msoflioSi aseTi
rame arsad xdeba. davTvaleT
riskebi da es sesxebi SeiZleba,
4-5%-Si gaicemodes. saqarTveloSi
yvelaze Raribi adamiani
yvelaze mets ixdis. rogorc
Cans, kalaZec erT-erTi lobistia
sabanko seqtoris da man gasca
davaleba, rom xelmowerebis
Segroveba SeaCeron. aqedan
gamomdinare gvajarimeben zedamxedvelobis
samsaxuris warmomadgenlebi.
_ meti problema ar Segqm-
niaT?
_ meti ara. wvrilmanebze yuradRebis
gamaxvilebas ar vapireb...
Tumca vnaxoT, ra iqneba
saxelisuflebo kandidatis
dasaxelebis Semdeg.
_ gviTxariT, kargad vici,
ra aris isnis mosaxleobis
problemebio. ras iTxovs yve-
laze metad mosaxleoba?
_ maTi nomer pirveli problema
igivea, rac danarCen saqarTveloSi
_ umuSevroba. xalxs
Semosavali ar gaaCnia. CvenTan
xom saSualo fena ar arsebobs.
aq adamianebis 1% sul ufro
mdidrdeba da 99% sul ufro
Raribdeba. 500-larian samsaxurs
ixvewebian adamianebi. 500
lari ki araferi araa. am TanxiT
ojaxis rCena Zalian Znelia.
isnis raions bevri urbanuli
problema aqvs. avlabarSi uam-
`rva welia, rac politikaSi var. am
provokaciebisTvis ukve gamovibrZmede.
provokaciebs axlac gviwyoben da magaliTsac
mogiyvanT: Cven sabanko sesxebTan dakavSirebiT
xelmowerebs vagrovebT. viTxovT maT
Semcirebas. Cvens warmomadgenlebTan
zedamxedvelobis samsaxuris TanamSromlebi
midian da ajarimeben agitaciis dros~
ravi avariuli istoriuli saxlia.
avlabarTan dakavSirebiT
reabilitaciis konkretul gegmas
warvadgenT, romelic axali
Taobis midgomiT SemuSavdeba,
rac imas niSnavs, rom adgilobrivi
mosaxleoba aucileblad
unda SevinarCunoT. istoriuli
ubnebis mimarT mTel msoflioSi
aseTi damokidebulebaa _
iqve unda gaumjobesdes sacxovrebeli
pirobebi. amas didi
datvirTva aqvs _ vin cxovrobs
iq da ra kulturaa. avlabari
tradiciuli ubania da es tradiciebi
aucileblad unda davicvaT.
avlabris ganviTarebis
gegma ebmeba elias mTas. gvaqvs
proeqtebi, romlebzedac axla
ver visaubreb. mogvianebiT gveqneba
maTi prezentacia da yvela
naxavs, ra unikaluri rame
movifiqreT. erTsac getyviT:
yvelaze magari ganviTarebis
gegma isnis raions eqneba.
vazisubanze calke gegmas
SevimuSavebT. aq sakmaod bevri
adamiani cxovrobs. am ubanSi
urbanuli ganviTarebis maxasiaTeblebic
ki ar arsebobs _ er-
Ti normaluri kafe da restoranic
ar aris. aqauri mosaxleoba
Zalian dabalSemosavliania.
iq adgilze samuSao adgilebi
ar arsebobs. vazisubnis konceptualur
gegmas CamovayalibebT.
igi dakavSirebuli iqneba ubnis
dasaxelebis warmomavlobasTan.
_ vazTan apirebT am ubnis
ganviTarebis gegmis mibmas?
_ gvinda, rom vazis xeivani
gavakeToT, sadac iqneba qarTuli
Rvinis maRaziebi, kafeebi.
gvinda, rom iq turistuli mizidulobis
axali centri SevqmnaT.
adgilobrvi mosaxleobisTvis
samuSao adgilebi gaCndeba.
vazisubans transportis
16 N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
problema aqvs, romlis mosagvarebladac
axal gegmaze vmuSaobT.
gvinda, rom sabagiroebis
kompleqsi Seiqmnas, ramdenime
gaCereba gavakeToT, raTa vazisubani
qalaqs swrafad daukav-
Sirdes. mniSvnelovania metros
gafarToeba, romlis proeqtic
vazisubanSi iyo da igi unda gavacocxloT,
rac Semdeg elias
mTaze ava.
_ Ria metrozea saubari?
_ sadRac Ria iqneba, sadRac
_ daxuruli. sabagiroebis sistemam
SeiZleba dafaros es yvelaferi
da metro aRar dagvWirdes.
kompleqsurad vmoqmedebT.
seriozuli samuSaoebi CavatareT
navTluRis mimarTulebiT,
romelic Zalian didi istoriisa
da kulturis mqone
ubania. am ubansac aqvs transportis
problema. aq iyo tramvai.
metro ver wvdeba mTel dasaxlebas
da xalxi tramvaiT sargeblobda.
axla tramvai aRar dadis.
iseTi tipis proeqtebze
vmuSaobT, romelic urbanulad
moawesrigebs da sacxovreblad
komfortuls gaxdis ubans. adgilze
gvinda Seiqmnas ganviTarebis
perspeqtiva. isani-samgoris
raionSi Zalian bevri qarxana
iyo. cudi ar iqneba, industriuli
parki Tu gakeTdeba, sadac
mcire da saSualo sawarmoebi
moiyris Tavs. es sawarmoebi
Semdeg Tbiliss miawvdis
sxvadasxva produqcias. industriuli
parkebi gaxlavT axali
Taobis midgoma, romelsac sxvadasxva
qveyana iyenebs. es gamocdileba
Cvenc unda gaviziaroT.
_ Tqvens partias sxva olq-
Si Tu eyoleba kidev maJori-
tarobis kandidati?
_ jer ar viciT, rogor CamovyalibdebiT.
unda gadavwyvitoT,
damoukideblad miviRebT
Tu ara arCevnebSi monawileobas.
ase Tu iqneba, yvela opoziciur
kandidats davuWerT mxars da
maqsimalurad vimuSavebT proporciulze.
saarCevno sistema
Seicvala da es CemTvis umniSvnelovanesia.
opoziciurma partiebma
yvelaferi unda gavakeToT
imisTvis, rom erTmaneTs
Tavs ar davesxaT. es Cvens interesebSi
namdvilad ar Sedis.
_ es Tavdasxmebi ukve daiw-
yo. raRac uTanxmoeba aris da
amas aravin malavs.
_ yvela opoziciur partias
SevTavazeb imas, rom saerTo
konsensusi iyos. Cven gvWirdeba
erTianoba mravalferovnebiT.
esaa mTeli Sinaarsi, riTac
SegviZlia ivaniSvils movugoT.
ras niSnavs erTianoba mravalferovnebiT?
imas niSnavs, rom,
erTi mxriv, xar saerTo strategiis
Tanamonawile, raTa xelisufleba
Seicvalos. amasTan,
amomrCevels Cveni gansxvavebu-
N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
oligarqma moskovs?
`gvinda, rom vazis xeivani gavakeToT, sadac
iqneba qarTuli Rvinis maRaziebi, kafeebi.
gvinda, rom iq turistuli mizidulobis
axali centri SevqmnaT. adgilobrvi
mosaxleobisTvis samuSao adgilebi gaCndeba.
vazisubans transportis problema aqvs,
romlis mosagvarebladac axal gegmaze
vmuSaobT. gvinda, rom sabagiroebis kompleqsi
Seiqmnas, ramdenime gaCereba gavakeToT, raTa
vazisubani qalaqs swrafad daukavSirdes.
mniSvnelovania metros gafarToeba, romlis
proeqtic vazisubanSi iyo da igi unda
gavacocxloT, rac Semdeg elias mTaze ava~
lobebi unda SevTavazoT. arc
erTi opoziciuri xma ar unda
daikargos. gamarjvebis formulas
swored aq vxedav. pirdapir
getyviT: am pirobebSi „qarTuli
ocneba” 30-32%-ze mets ver
aiRebs, rac imas niSnavs, rom xelisuflebaSi
modis koaliciuri
mmarTveloba. koaliciuri
mmarTveloba qveynisTvis Zalian
mniSvnelovania.
_ ratom aris mniSvnelo-
vani?
_ es aris konkurentuli mmarTveloba.
aseT SemTxvevaSi sa-
`jer ar viciT, rogor CamovyalibdebiT. unda
gadavwyvitoT, damoukideblad miviRebT Tu
ara arCevnebSi monawileobas. ase Tu iqneba,
yvela opoziciur kandidats davuWerT mxars
da maqsimalurad vimuSavebT proporciulze.
saarCevno sistema Seicvala da es CemTvis
umniSvnelovanesia. opoziciurma partiebma
yvelaferi unda gavakeToT imisTvis, rom
erTmaneTs Tavs ar davesxaT. es Cvens
interesebSi namdvilad ar Sedis~
qmis keTebaSi konkurencia iqneba.
erTi adamiani veRar gadawyvets
yvelafers. ase ufro angariSvaldebulebi
viqnebiT
xalxTan. yvela wava moqalaqeebTan.
aravis eqneba imis garantia,
rom Cavigde xelSi prokuratura,
sasamarTlo da yvelaferi
SemiZlia movagvaro an ise
gavakeTo, rogorc me minda. rac
Seexeba opozicionerebis erTmaneTze
Tavdasxmebs, Cem mimar-
Tac iyo Tavdasxmebi, magram ar
vupasuxe. sworadac moviqeci.
_ bolo dros opoziciaze
TavdasxmebiT aleko elisaS-
vilma Zalian gamoiCina Tavi.
_ es ar iyo lamazi da elisaSvilmac
SeaCera Tavdasxmebi,
radgan gaizra, rom opoziciis
opozicioneroba yvelaze cudi
saqmea, rac axla SeiZleba opozicionerma
gaakeTos. Zalian
mniSvnelovania, am kuTxiT gavagrZeloT
muSaoba. vapireb, yvelas
SevTavazo Tavdausxmelobaze
SeTanxmebis gaformeba.
_ miiReben am SeTavazebas?
_ ar vici. opoziciur partiebs
Soris SeTanxmeba Tu ar
Sedgeba, calmxrivad vapireb
amis Sesrulebas. pirdapir vacxadeb,
rom opoziciidan wamosul
arc erT Tavdasxmas ar
vupasuxeb. es aris Zalian mniSvnelovani.
dRes Tu vinmes awyobs,
rom opozicia erTmaneTs
Tavs esxmodes, es aris „qarTuli
ocneba”. „qarTuli ocnebis”
wisqvilze wyals ar davasxam da
yovelTvis Sevecdebi, rom msgavsi
qmedebebi SevaCero. Cemi
gundidan es gamoricxuli iqneba
da sxvebsac vTxov, rom igive
gaakeTon.
_ „qarTuli ocneba” 30-32%-
ze mets ver aiRebs arCevnebzeo.
es niSnavs, rom xelisu-
fleba unda daTmon. ase iolad
Seelevian Zalauflebas?
_ roca arCevnebs waageben,
Zalian martivad gadavlen opoziciaSi.
iluziaa, rom isini xelisuflebas
ar daTmoben. aseT
iluzias Tavad „qarTuli ocneba”
qmnis. Cven vxedavT, Tu ramxela
mxardaWeraa dasavleTidan.
usamarTlo da ukanono arCevnebs
aravin aRiarebs. aravin
cnobs iseT arCevnebs, rogoric
iyo 2018 wlis meore turi.
dRes garantiebic gvaqvs, magram
sxva ramea mTavari _ Cven unda
avmuSavdeT. „ocneba” 32%-ze
mets ver aiRebs, magram es imas
ar niSnavs, rom Cven 70% gvaqvs
garantirebuli. swori strategiisa
da swori muSaobis pirobebSi
amas SevZlebT.
_ irakli kobaxiZe Tavisi
agresiuli margalitebiT aris
gamorCeuli. biZina ivaniSvilma
is „qarTuli ocnebis” saar-
Cevno Stabis xelmZRvanelad
daniSna. es imas xom ar niSnavs,
rom mmarTvel partias agresi-
uli saarCevno kampania eqneba?
_ sxvaTa Soris, irakli kobaxiZe
xelmZRvanelobda salome
zurabiSvilis saarCevno Stabs
2018 wlis saprezidento arCevnebSi.
misi TaosnobiT gaiSala
scena, sadac pirvelive turSi
gamarjveba unda ezeimaT. Semdeg
Tavisi xeliT daSales es
scena. aseve iqneba am arCevnebzec.
piradad me Zalian gamex-
arda, rom irakli kobaxiZe iqneba
„qarTuli ocnebis” saarCevno
Stabis xelmZRvaneli. es Zalian
kargi ambavia.
_ marTla gagexardaT?
_ marTla gamexarda. irakli
kobaxiZe aris personalurad
pasuxismgebeli sergei gavrilovis
am qveyanaSi Camoyvanaze.
sanam rusi komunisti saqarTvelos
parlamentis spikeris adgils
daikavebda, kobaxiZe mas manamde
elicliceboda da earSiyeboda.
amis amsaxveli fotoebi
mravlad arsebobs. parlamentamde
sergei gavrilovs avlabris
rezidenciaSi umaspinZles.
yvelaferi xom gasagebia da cxadia.
kobaxiZe gamiznulad dainiSna
saarCevno Stabis xelmZRvanelad.
aseTi gadawyvetilebebi
SemTxveviT ar miiReba.
_ ras gulisxmobT?
_ kobaxiZes saarCevno Stabis
ufrosad daniSvna ruseTTan angariSis
Cabarebis nawilia. moskovs
uTxres, gavrilovis maspin-
Zlobis gamo Tu spikerobidan
mogviawia misma gaSvebam, ager
axla vabarebT saarCevno Stabso.
_ SaqaraSvilis mkvlelobazec
minda gkiTxoT: am dana-
Sauls didi ambebi mohyva. es
mkvleloba im xelisuflebis
pirobebSi moxda, romelic sul
aseT saqmeebs gaxsenebT. „na-
cionalebic” imitom gauSva
xalxma xelisuflebidan, rom
bevri mkvleloba vixileT maTi
mmarTvelobisas.
_ pirveli da Zalian mniSvnelovania
is, rom im zRvramde
mivediT, roca usamarTlobas
yovelTvis usamarTloba
mohyveba. yvelas axsovs albaT
saraliZis, maCalikaSvilisa da
sxvaTa saqmeebi. sul ambobdnen,
rom Secdomebze viswavliT da
aseTi rameebi aRar ganmeordebao.
uecrad, igive Secdoma miviReT.
Tavad danaSaulis Sinaarsi
Semzaravia. es moitana xelis
dafarebebis im kaskadma, rac
zogadad aris qveyanaSi. xels
afareben politikuri miznebisTvis.
mTavria, rom danaSauli
moxda da samarTaldamcvelebma
„qarTuli ocnebis” davalebiT
daiwyes saqmis gayalbeba, samxilebis
ganadgureba da Cvenebebis
Secvla. erT rames vpirdebi
sazogadoebas, rom rogorc
ki arCevnebSi gavimarjvebT, iqneba
samarTliani sasamarTlo
da prokuratura. amis Sesaxeb
memorandumic ki gavaformeT
opoziciam. sxva gamosavali
araa! „qarTuli ocneba” SeeCvia
samarTaldamcveli organoebis
sakuTari politikuri miznebisTvis
gamoyenebas. yvelaferi
ukavSirdeba arCevnebs. arCevnebisTvis
garkveuli wre sWirdebodaT,
amitom daiwyes kvalis
areva. es xom faqtia. Jurnalistebi
rom ara, TvalSi nacars
Segvayridnen da verc ki gavigebdiT,
ra moxda. iseTi suraTis
daxatva surdaT, rom moxda Cxubi
da Semdeg axalgazrdam sicocxle
TviTmkvlelobiT daasrula.
Cven aucileblad SevqmniT
sagamoZiebo komisias, romelic
yvela gaxmaurebul saqmes
Seiswavlis da uklebliv ageben
pasuxs damnaSaveebze xelis damfareblebi.
17
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
`SaqaraSvilis saqmeSi~ bevri saeWvo
is, rom „girCs” „giJuri” idee-
giorgi abaSiZe
bi aqvs, axali araa, magram iman,
rac ramdenime dRis win gaxda
cnobili, rogorc ityvian, yovelgvar molodins gadaaWarba.
kerZod, „girCma” sazogadoebas aseTi lozungiT mimarTa: „wadi
arCevnebze da moige Tesla!” ras niSnavs yvelaferi es? ras
da, rogorc „girCSi” ganmartaven, nebismier adamians, romelic
wlevandel arCevnebze, e. i., 31 oqtombers, saarCevno ubanze
miva, misTvis sasurvel partias miscems xmas da, parale-
lurad, saarCevno ubanTan selfs ise gadaiRebs, rom ubnis
nomeric gamoCndes, Sansi eqneba, rom „tesla” moigos, oRond
ar dagaviwydeT: yvelafer amasTan erTad, manamde, „girCis”
saitze unda daregistrirdeT, 31 oqtombers ki saarCevno
ubanTan gadaRebuli selfi 21:00 saaTamde sakuTar „feisbu-
qze” unda gamoaqveynoT heSTegiT #meviyaviarCevnebze.
xom ar CaeTvleba „girCs” e. w.
Teslas proeqti amomrCevlis mo-
syidvad? _ amis gasarkvevad
„qronika+
nika+~ partiis erT-erT
lider iago xviCias daukavSirda,
romelTan saubaric, ra Tqma unda,
„SaqaraSvilis saqmiT” daviw-
yeT:
_ iago, ramdenime dRis win,
erT-erT politikur ToqSouSi,
roca giorgi SaqaraSvilis tra-
gediaze saubrobdiT, TqviT, sasa-
marTloze ufro meti sanaxaoba
gvelodebao. ras gulisxmobdiT?
_ sasamarTlo bevrad ufro
sajaroa, vidre _ gamoZieba, anu
procesi gaxsnilia da medias,
aseve sazogadoebas SeuZlia gaigos,
ra xdeba.
_ ki batono, magram „SaqaraSvilis
saqmis” sasamarTlo saja-
ro ver iqneba, radgan erT-erTi
braldebuli arasrulwlovania.
_ SeiZleba, magram am sasamarTlo
procesidan ambavs gavigebT,
anu arasrulwlovanTan dakav-
Sirebuli sxdomebi SesaZloa, daxuruli
iyos, magram ganaCenSi Caiwereba,
am arasrulwlovanma rame
daaSava Tu ara. erTi sityviT, is
dokumentebi, romlebzedac axla
ise vsaubrobT, rogorc urTierTsawinaaRmdegosa
Tu policiis
zewoliT miRebulze, sasamarTloze
gasajarovdeba, anu saqmeze
17 adamiania dakavebuli, 17-ive sxvadasxva
ambavs yveba da sasamarTloze
maTi naambobi gamoaSkaravdeba.
garda amisa, ar mgonia, yvelaferi
sinqronSi ise aewyos, rom
am 17 Tu sxva adamianebis Cvenebeb-
Si winaaRmdegoba ar iyos. mokled,
sasamarTloze winaaRmdegobebi
gamovlindeba da amaze Tavis mar-
Tleba sasacilo iqneba! sxvaTa Soris,
gamoZiebis drosac ukve Zalian
bevri tragikomikuri momenti
gamoCnda.
_ kerZod?
_ Cvenebebis Secvlaze rom aRaraferi
vTqvaT, ai, magaliTad,
gavigeT, rom adamianebma, romel-
Tac aseTi ambavi gadaxdaT, drostareba
ise gaagrZeles, TiTqos
araferi momxdara. amasTan, fotografs,
romelic wveulebaze
imyofeboda da fotoaparatiT
iyo SeiaraRebuli, erTi fotoc ki
ar gadauRia. mokled, uamravi
saeWvo Temaa, rac sasamarTloSi
sul sxvanairad ifeTqebs, radgan
iq yvelaferze bevri adamianis
pozicias movismenT. saerTod, ase
xdeba xolme _ sasamarTloSi ganxilvis
dros detalebs ufro meti
yuradReba eqceva. saqmis Sedegamde
ki, saboloo jamSi, swored am
detalebs mivyavarT.
_ geTanxmebiT, magram xom ar
fiqrobT, rom „SaqaraSvilis
saqmem” sagamoZiebo uwyebis mankierebani
ufro naTlad war-
moaCina?
_ amas ver getyviT, radgan
CemTvis es sistema iseTivea, rogoric
aqamde iyo, anu axali araferi
gamigia. ubralod, es saqme
CemTvis imis saSualebaa, rom
sistemis mankiereba ukeTesad avxsna.
saerTod, erTaderTi, rac
sistemas Secvlis, maRali sajaro
interesia _ am qveyanaSi sasamarTlo
kontroli ar arsebobs, amitom
sazogadoebis yuradRebaa
saWiro, rom sistema gaumjobesdes,
miT umetes, axla, roca
saarCevno welia.
_ saarCevno weli ra SuaSia?
_ sistemis gaumjobesebis Sansi
yovelTvis ki ara, axla arsebobs.
_ ise, arCevnebamde sami TviT
adre xelisuflebas ratom unda
awyobdes, rom aseT gaxmaurebul
kriminalur saqmeSi viRacas xeli
daafaros? Tqveni azriT, „meocnebeebi”
ver xvdebian, rom yvelaferi
es arCevnebis dRes Sesa-
Zloa, maT winaaRmdeg gamoiy-
enon?
_ es ar vici, Tumca erTSi geTanxmebiT.
_ magaliTad?
_ ra mniSvneloba aqvs, saarCevno
welia Tu ara _ rogor Sei-
Zleba, arCeviT demokratiaSi vinme
mkvlelebs xels afarebdes? ise,
Cven isic ar viciT, xelisuflebas
vinmesTvis xelis dafareba
gadawyvetili aqvs Tu ara. yovel
SemTxvevaSi, iqidan gamomdinare,
rac viciT, me aseTi gancda maqvs
_ viRacam scada, rom am saqmeSi
viRacisTvis xeli daefarebina,
Tumca es politikuri interesi ki
ar iyo, aramed, aseTi ram sistemiT
SigniTaa SesaZlebeli.
zogadad, adamianebi varT da
Secdomas yvelani vuSvebT, magram
am Secdomaze biZina, anu partia
pasuxismgebeli araa, magram roca
ici, rom politpatimrebi gyavs da
amasTan, isic ici, rom sistemaSi
problemebia, am sistemaSi momuSave
adamianebs xels afareb.
_ hoda, am xelis dafarebis
mizani ra aris?
_ viRacebma saqme ariv-daries,
magram mediis daxmarebiT yvelaferi
naTeli gaxda. amitom
sistema isea awyobili, rom axla
iZulebulni arian, erTmaneTs
xeli daafaron. ise, sistemam Sei-
Zleba, saerTod ar icoda, rom
adamiani gardaicvala.
_ iqneb, „SaqaraSvilis saqme”
Tavidanve imitom airiv-dairia,
rom gamoZieba araprofesion-
alebma daiwyes?
_ rasakvirvelia, arafers gamovricxav,
magram swored eg aris
mTavari.
_ anu?
_ sistema isea awyobili, rom
danaSauls, romelSic oci adamiani
monawileobs da viRac kvdeba,
ver xsnis, anu sazogadoebas ver
eubneba, damnaSave vinaa. es moralur
gaxrwnaze uaresia, magram
Tu viRacas sisulelis gamo
afareb xels, gekiTxebiT, aseTi
marTlmsajulebis sistema rogor
SeiZleba, kargi iyos?
mokled, am saqmis magaliTze
unda avxsnaT, sistema rogor funqcionirebs
da amas is adamianebic
imsaxureben, romlebic sistemaSi
muSaoben, magram arafer SuaSi
arian. Tu simarTle ar gairkveva,
maSin yvela gaisvreba!
_ sxvaTa Soris, „nacionaluri
moZraobis” xelisuflebis dasasrulis
dasawyisis aTvlis wertilad
girgvlianis mkvleloba mi-
iCneva. iago, xom ar fiqrobT, rom
„ocnebas” SaqaraSvilis tragedia
CamoSlis?
_ aseTi prognozebi ar miyvars.
„girgvlianis saqmeze” usamarTloba
gamoCnda da, Sesabamisad, is
xelisuflebac im usamarTlobam
CamoSala, romelsac xels afarebdnen.
am qveyanaSi sxva saqmeebicaa,
sadac usamarTloba Riad
Cans, magram xelisufleba ar CamoiSala.
_ ratom?
_ sazogadoebas raRac sWirdeba,
anu iseTi raRac unda moxdes,
romelsac gansakuTrebuli rezonansi
eqneba, rogoric, Tavis
droze, „girgvlianis saqmes” hqonda.
_ imis Tqma gindaT, rom girgvlianis
mkvleloba „SaqaraSvi-
lis saqmeze” ufro rezonansuli
iyo?
_ ar vici, „SaqaraSvilis saqmes”
rogori rezonansi eqneba, Tumca
am or saqmes Soris saerToc aris
da _ gansxvavebac.
`girgvlianis saqme~ raRacnairad politikuri
Tanamdebobis pirebsa da maTTan dakavSirebul
saqmianobas ukavSirdeboda - konfliqti amis
gamo daiwyo. SaqaraSvilis ambavi am mizeziT
ar dawyebula, magram girgvlianis msgavsad, am
saqmeSic bevri bundovanebaa - saqme an Zalian
kargad gakeTda an xelis dafarebis mizniT
Zalian cudad dalagda~
iago xviCia:
`xelisufleba
moqalaqeebs
yoveldRiurad
abrazebs, magram
xalxs opozicia ufro
metad uSlis nervebs!~
_ am ori saqmis saerTo an gan-
sxvaveba ra aris?
_ saerTo bundovanebaa.
_ konkretulad?
_ „girgvlianis saqme” raRacnairad
politikuri Tanamdebobis
pirebsa da maTTan dakavSirebul
saqmianobas ukavSirdeboda _ konfliqti
amis gamo daiwyo. SaqaraSvilis
ambavi am mizeziT ar dawyebula,
magram girgvlianis msgavsad,
am saqmeSic bevri bundovanebaa
_ saqme an Zalian kargad gakeTda
an xelis dafarebis mizniT
Zalian cudad dalagda.zogadad,
erTmaneTs bevri saqme hgavs, magram
es imas ar niSnavs, rom es
saqmeebi identuria.
_ absoluturi msgavseba, bune-
brivia, ar arsebobs, magram 2012
wels, anu mas Semdeg, rac „ocne-
ba” xelisuflebaSia, araerTi
kriminali moxda. am mxriv yvelaze
gaxmaurebuli saraliZis, maCa-
likaSvilis, siraZisa da SaqaraSv
araSvilis
saqmeebia, Tumca amis miuxe-
davad, bolo sociologiuri iuri kv-
levis mixedviT, romelic „edison
riCma” „formulas” dakveTiT Caa-
tara, ivaniSvilis gunds TiTqmis
40-procentiani mxardaWera aqvs,
anu sazogadoebaSi masobrivi
protesti ar arsebobs?
_ sxvaTa Soris, sanam intervius
daviwyebdiT, socialur qselSi am
kvlevebze statusi davwere da
vTqvi, rom sazogadoeba marTalia
da es opoziciam unda gaviazroT.
_ es ras niSnavs?
_ marTalia, xelisufleba Secdomebs
uSvebs da moqalaqeebs
yoveldRiurad abrazebs, magram
xalxs opozicia ufro metad uSlis
nervebs.
_ ratom?
_ problema an xelisuflebaSia,
an _ xalxSi, an opoziciaSi. rac
unda vTqvaT, problema xalxSiao,
xalxi iseTia, rogoric aris da
raRac sakiTxebs ise uyurebs,
rogorc uyurebs. xalxs SeiZleba,
yvelaferSi ar veTanxmebi, magram
misi raRac TvalsazrisiT
mesmis, anu opozicia damajereblad
da SeTanxmebulad ar gamoiyureba.
_ ufro konkretulad?
_ opoziciis bolo nabijebi,
18
18 N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
Temaa, rac sasamarTloSi ifeTqebs!~
gansakuTrebiT saerTo maJoritarebze
dawyebuli saubari da
verSeTanxmeba, adamianebze negatiurad
moqmedebs da nel-nela
opoziciis imeds kargaven. amitom
yvelafer amas opoziciam Zalian
racionalurad unda Sexedos da
is interesebi, _ partiuli siiT
ramdens Seviyvan, maJoritarebi sxvisi
rom iyos, _ gverdiT unda
gadados. erTi sityviT, adamianebs
imis SiSi ar unda hqondeT, rom xelisuflebaSi
isev erTi partia
erTpirovnulad modis. vinme
mogvwons Tu ara, opoziciaSi yvela
erTadaa da erTmaneTs abalansebs,
anu xalxSi, ai, swored es
gancda unda gavaCinoT, magram ma-
Joritarebidan gamomdinare, jerjerobiT,
amis sawinaaRmdego procesi
midis da reitingebze gabrazeba,
Cemi azriT, absurdia!
_ ise, iago, SeiZleba, vcdebi,
magram meCveneba, rom opozicia
imisTvis ki ar ibrZvis, rom
arCevnebSi „ocneba” damarcxdes,
aramed erTmaneTs, minimum, imi-
sTvis ebrZvis, Tu romeli partia
gava meore adgilze.
_ aseTi gancda mec miCndeba da
saqarTvelos mosaxleobasac. amitom
Tqvenc da mosaxleobac, romelsac
aseTi gancda aqvs, mtyuani
araa da mgonia, rom opoziciam
amas ise unda Sexedos, rogorc
problemas da Tu gaZliereba
unda, es problema unda aRmofxvras.
iciT, problema ra aris?
_ ra?
_ Cemi azriT, opoziciaSi arCevnebis
mogebis Jini ar igrZnoba.
_ opozicias gamarjvebis Jini
ratom ar aqvs?
_ nawils ar sjera, rom xelisuflebaSi
mova, nawils ki, anu
mas, visac amis sjera, unda, rom
xelisuflebaSi marto movides,
raTa aravin SeuSalos xeli, magram
es xalxis SekveTa ar aris.
xalxi gveubneba, marto arc erTi
mindixarT, radgan aqamde yvelam
raRacaSi gadagvagdeT, amitom
erTad dadeqiTo.
_ opozicia Wrelia. hoda,
romel frTas ar sjera gamarjvebis
an romels unda, rom xelisu-
flebaSi marto movides, ufro
sworad, am oridan „girCis” arCe-
vani romelia?
_ opozicias sjera, rom opozicias
gamarjvebis Sansi maSin aqvs,
Tu SeTanxmdeba, „qarTuli ocnebis”
xelisuflebidan wasvlis Semdeg
saqarTvelo rogori unda
iyos. mgonia, rom me saR azrze
var, anu is, rac CemTvis misaRebi
araa, arc sxvebs unda SevTavazo.
_ ukacravad, es ra SuaSia?
_ Tu CemTvis raRac misaRebi
gulwrfelad iqneba, amas Cems
amomrCevlebs SevTavazeb da sxvebmac
igive unda gaakeTon.
_ yvelaferi es imas niSnavs Tu
ara, rom opozicia arCevnebze
erTiani proporciuli siiT unda
gamovides?
_ jer imaze unda SevTanxmdeT,
rogori qveyana gvinda, yvelaferi
danarCeni ki teqnikuri sakiTxia.
ise, simarTle giTxraT, erTiani
siis idea ar momwons.
_ ratom?
`is dokumentebi, romlebzedac axla ise vsaubrobT, rogorc
urTierTsawinaaRmdegosa Tu policiis zewoliT miRebulze, sasamarTloze
gasajarovdeba, anu saqmeze 17 adamiania dakavebuli, 17-ive sxvadasxva ambavs
yveba da sasamarTloze maTi naambobi gamoaSkaravdeba. garda amisa, ar
mgonia, yvelaferi sinqronSi ise aewyos, rom am 17 Tu sxva adamianebis
CvenebebSi winaaRmdegoba ar iyos. mokled, sasamarTloze winaaRmdegobebi
gamovlindeba da amaze Tavis marTleba sasacilo iqneba! sxvaTa Soris,
gamoZiebis drosac ukve Zalian bevri tragikomikuri momenti gamoCnda~
_ erTprocentiani proporciuli
arCevnebia da xmebis dakargvis
saSiSroeba, praqtikulad, ar
dgas. im dros, roca maJoritarobis
kandidatebis 95% erTi partiidanaa,
rogor SeiZleba, romelime
opoziciurma partiam xalxi daarwmunos,
rom meore opoziciur
partiasTan kompromisze wavida?
ise ar unda vifiqroT, rom adamianebi
briyvebi arian.
_ yvelaferi es gasagebia, magram
opozicia ratom ver Tanxm-
deba, „ocnebis” xelisuflebidan
wasvlis Semdeg, rogori qveyana
unda aaSenos?
_ es martivi ar aris.
_ ratom?
_ Cven politikuri gamocdileba
ar gagvaCnia.
_ ras gulisxmobT?
_ bolos da bolos, opozicia
Zalian didi xnis ganmavlobaSi
erTmaneTs ar elaparakeboda, anu,
minimum, 20 welia, am qveyanaSi po-
`gvinda, rom axalgazrdebi wavaxalisoT da
vfqirobT, am ideiT cesko-s vexmarebiT, anu es
arCevnebze misvlis popularizaciaa. amas
winaT, xelisufleba da opozicia ixilavda,
rom adamianebi arCevnebze ZaliT miiyvanon.
hoda, Tu amazea saubari, `teslaze~ ukeTesi
waxaliseba raRa unda iyos?~
litikuri procesi ar yofila da
yvelaferi imis mixedviT xdeboda,
rac xelisuflebaSi myof Zalas
undoda. e. i., gadawyvetilebebi
politikuri kompromisebiT ki
ara, erTpartiulad miiReboda.
aqedan gamomdinare, qarTvel politikosebs
politika erTmaneT-
Tan laparaki ki ara, sityviT gamosvla
gvgonia. amitom pirveli,
rac unda gavakeToT, isaa, rom
sityviT gamosvlas Tavi davaneboT
da erTmaneTTan laparaki viswavloT!
rogorc ki amas viswavliT,
opozicia maSinve gaZlierdeba,
magram Tu amas ver viswavliT,
opozicia unda Seicvalos da axali
gamoCndes! mokled, minda, rom
man, vinc lideria, ilideros da
yvelaferi opoziciis gayofisTvis
ki ara, gamTlianebisTvis
gaakeTos, anu Tu ityvi, aravisTan
vTanamSromlob da yvela maJoritari
me unda myavdeso, amiT opozicia
dasustdeba da es Seni pasuxismgeblobac
iqneba! ai, magaliTad,
„lelos” mesame Zalis pretenzia
aqvs, magram opoziciasTan
ar laparakobs, anu mesameZaloba
ginda da am dros adamianebs ar
eubnebi, Tu xelisuflebaSi moxval,
qveyana rogori iqneba.
_ Tveebis ganmavlobaSi opozi-
cia leiboristebis ofisSi erTi
magidis garSemo ijda, magram,
iago, Tqveni saubridan gamom-
dinare es Sekrebebi SekrebebisTvis
iyo da opoziciam erTmaneTTan
laparaki mainc ver is-
wavla, ara?
_ is sxva rame iyo.
_ ras gulisxmobT?
_ iq saubari proporciul
arCevnebze iyo, razedac SevTanxmdiT
da proporciuli arCevnebi
miviReT. meore Tema maJoritarebze
SeTanxmeba gaxldaT, rac warmatebuli
eqvs kandidatze aRmoCnda.
_ sxvaTa Soris, e. w. gaerTianebuli
opozicia mxolod Tbilisis
maJoritarul olqebze SeT-
anxmda, Tan aqac kandidatebis
umetesoba ori partiidanaa.
_ diax, imis nacvlad, rom er-
Tianoba yofiliyo da aleko elisaSvili
Tu igive „lelo” opoziciur
erTobas SeerTeboda, viRacebi
opoziciur frontze erTmaneTs
akritikeben, rac ar momwons.
_ iqneb, opozicionerebi erT-
maneTs imitom akritikeben, rom
viRacebi „ocnebis” satelitebi
arian da opozicionerobas,
ubralod, TamaSoben? sxvaTa
Soris, xelisuflebidan marTuli
opoziciis cneba qarTuli poli-
tikisTvis, rogorc ityvian, ucxo
xili namdvilad araa...
_ mas, visac xelisuflebis
satelitoba udasturdeba, unda
daudasturdes kidec, magram yvelaferi
unda gavakeToT, rom isini,
romelTac satelitoba ar
udasturdebaT, saerTo opoziciur
TamaSSi CaerTon. saerTo opoziciuri
TamaSi ki imas niSnavs,
rom yvelas, gansakuTrebiT mas,
visac yvelaze meti xma aqvs, yvelaze
meti pasuxismgebloba mohyveba
da Sesabamisad, gamaerTianebeli
unda iyos! erTi sityviT, Cemi
kolega opozicionerebis mimarT
mTeli rigi SeniSvnebi maqvs da Tu
gvinda, rom es mdgomareoba gamovasworoT,
adamianebs unda vaCvenoT,
rom procesi mimdinareobs.
_ arCevnebamde Zalian cota
dro _ samTve-naxevaria darCeneli
da opozicia xalxis ganwyobe-
bis Secvlas moaxerxebs?
_ viRacas azris gadmosacemad
meti dro sWirdeba, viRac ki amas
nakleb droSi axerxebs. mTavaria,
opoziciam saTqmeli erToblivad
Tqvas da amas adamianebi ufro
adre daijereben, miT umetes, Tu
es saTqmeli gulwrfeli iqneba!
dRes opozicia, realurad, imaze
zrunavs, parlamentSi maJoritarobis
romeli kandidati gava. es ki
xalxs ar ainteresebs.
_ aba, xalxs ra ainteresebs?
_ opozicias kompromisze wasvla
da rameze SeTanxmeba SeuZlia
Tu ara. ai, swored es iqneba gardamtexi.
_ bolos, iago, „girCis” inovaciur
ideaze unda gkiTxoT: miuxedavad
imisa, rom Tqveni partia
araordinalurobiT gam-
oirCeva, axali iniciativa mainc
ucnaurad momeCvena, anu adami-
anebs mouwodebT, rom arCevnebze
wavidnen da... „tesla” moigon. e.
i., „girCi” fiqrobs, rom „teslas”
xaTriT arCevnebis dRes amom-
rCevlis aqtiuroba gaizrdeba?
_ gvinda, rom amomrCeveli
wavaxalisoT.
_ imas, rasac Tqven waxalise-
bas eZaxiT, viRacam SesaZloa,
saarCevno mosyidvad miiCnios.
_ amas swored mosyidvis sawinaaRmdegod
vakeTebT.
_ es rogor?
_ viciT, rom arCevnebze, umetesad,
isini dadian, romlebic sxvadasxva
partiisgan 20-30 lars
iReben, anu es partiuli aqtivia.
Cven ki gvinda, rom arCevnebze is
axali adamianebi movidnen, romlebic
arCevnebze aqamde saerTod
ar yofilan da verc xvdebodnen,
risTvis unda mosuliyvnen. arCevnebze,
procentulad Tu gadavxedavT,
umetesad, xanSi Sesuli adamianebi
dadian xolme. vinmes sawinaaRmdego
araferi gvaqvs, magram
gvinda, rom arCevnebze axalgazrdebis
interesebic iyos, anu politikuri
dapirebebi saintereso
mxolod xanSi SesulebisTvisaa
xolme, axalgazrdebi ki, praqtikulad,
saTanado warmomadgenlobis
gareSe rCebian. es ki am qveyanaze,
saboloo jamSi, cudad moqmedebs.
erTi sityviT, gvinda, rom axalgazrdebi
wavaxalisoT da vfqirobT,
am ideiT cesko-s vexmarebiT,
anu es arCevnebze misvlis popularizaciaa.
amas winaT, xelisufleba
da opozicia ixilavda, rom
adamianebi arCevnebze ZaliT miiyvanon.
hoda, Tu amazea saubari,
„teslaze” ukeTesi waxaliseba ra-
Ra unda iyos? es erTaderTi ki
ara, erT-erTi kargi svlaa, romelsac,
Cemi azriT, Sedegi eqneba.
N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
19
ras niSnavs aRniSnuli kanoni?
gamoiyenebs Tu ara mTavr-
oba cvlilebebs winasaarCevnod
Tavis sasikeTod? ramdenad arsebobs
arCevnebis gadadebis San-
si? _ am da sxva saintereso de-
talebis Sesaxeb „qronika+~-is
kiTxvebs pasuxobs jandacvis
politikisa da marTvis spe-
cialisti, medicinis doqtori,
sergo CixlaZe:
_ am kanonis gaxangrZliveba
aranair saWiroebas ar warmoadgenda.
15 ivlisamde moqmedebda
da axla pirvel ianvramde gadawies,
rom mTavarobas sagangebo
mdgomareobis gareSe nebismieri
SezRudvis daweseba SeeZleba da
es keTdeba sazogadoebrivi jandacvis
saWiroebis safarqveS.
pirvel rigSi, epidemiologiuri
viTareba iseTia, rom am wuTisTvis
amis safrTxe ar arsebobs.
rac batonma xundaZem ganacxada,
rom SeiZleba meore talRa iyos
da Cven amitom viRebT am zomebso,
maSin kiTxva ismis: pirveli
ianvris Semdeg ar SeiZleba iyos
meore talRa? an xom SeiZleba,
sul ase gagrZeldes? vaqcinac
rom arsebobdes an efeqtiani wamali,
raRac SemTxvevebi yovelTvis
iqneba, iseve rogorc nebismieri
sxva virusuli an infeqciuri
daavadebis dros. am logikas Tu
gavyvebiT, maSin ratom pirveli
ianvari da barem uvado Semovi-
RoT. wlebis ganmavlobaSi SeiZleba
ase gagrZeldes. dRes Sez-
Rudvebis gaxangrZlivebis saWiroeba
ar arsebobs. im qveynebsac
ki, romlebic namdvilad Cvenze
metad dazaralda, 100 aTasobiT
daavadebuli hyavdaT da maT ar
miuRiaT aseTi SezRudvebi, ase
uvadod ar gauxangrZlivebiaT
sagangebo mdgomareoba.
_ ra aris mTavrobis mizani?
_ erTaderTi mizania,
arCevnebis wina periodSi mTavarobas
efeqtiani berketi hqondes
politikuri manipulaciebisTvis.
Tu dainaxavs, rom kvlevebiT
an sazogadoebrivi ganwyobiT
misTvis arasaxarbielo politikuri
mdgomareoba aqvs, mas Seu-
Zlia garkveuli SezRudvebi
daawesos, rac imoqmedebs oponentebze,
politikur partiebze,
opoziciurad ganwyobil amomrCevelsa
da a. S.
_ ufro rom ganvmartoT, ris
an vis winaaRmdeg iqneba es
SezRudvebi?
_ es SezRudva aris Tavisufali
nebis winaaRmdeg, Tavisufali
arCevanis winaaRmdeg da zogadad,
adamianTa uflebebs ar-
Rvevs. vimeoreb: sazogadoebrivi
20
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
`qarTul ocnebas~ ar unda awyobdes arCevnebis gadadeba~
saqarTvelos parlamentis rig-
giorgi sakaruli
gareSe sxdomaze „sazogadoebrivi
555 42 42 81
janmrTelobis Sesaxeb” saqarTve-
los kanonSi cvlilebebis Setanas
erTi mosmeniT, gamartivebuli wesiT uyares kenWi. cvlilebebs
79-ma deputatma dauWira mxari, erTi ki winaaRmdegi iyo. kanon-
proeqtis mizania, rom 2020 wlis 15 ivlisis Semdegac SenarCundes
is arsebuli samarTlebrivi meqanizmi, romelic pandemiis
winaaRmdeg sabrZolvelad sxvadasxva saxis RonisZiebis gatare-
bis SesaZleblobasa da procesebis warmarTvas uzrunvelyofs,
anu ufro gasageb enaze rom vTqvaT, mTavroba maSin SemoiRebs
mkacr akrZalvebsa Tu regulaciebs, roca moundeba da aRsani-
Snavia isic, rom am cvlilebebiT mTavrobas sakarantino RonisZ-
iebebis gatarebis ufleba 2021 wlis pirvel ianvramde SeeZleba.
jandacvis kuTxiT amis aucilebloba
namdvilad ar arsebobs.
piriqiT, vambobT, rom mTavrobam
daagviana SezRudvebis moxsna. amas
daavadebaTa kontrolis centris
warmomadgenlebi TviTonve
amboben, vxedavT cifrebs da ase-
Ti erTeuli SemTxvevebi aranair
safrTxes ar warmoadgens, radgan
isic importirebulia.
yvelanairad gvamzadeben, rom
Tu dasWirdaT, SeiZleba forma
Secvalon, dro an yvelanairi
agitaciis saSualeba SegizRudon.
magaliTad, ratom ar xsnian
sazRvrebs? e. w. prosamTavrobo
uwyebebi saubroben, rom aranairi
safrTxe ar aris, Tu rekomendaciebs
davicavT, kovid pasports
avamoqmedebT, testrirebas
gavukeTebT an sabuTiT Semova
sazRvarze adamiani da inficirebis
riski minimumamde dava.
100%-iT aravin aris dazRveuli,
kovidamdec Semodiodnen adamianebi
da SeiZleba raRac daavadeba
hqondaT, magram aq laparakia
imaze, rom riskebi minimumamdea
dayvanili imdenad, rom aranairi
afeTqeba ar gveqneba. 3-4 da 15
SemTxveva yovelTvis SeiZleba
iyos. metic: jandacvis saministros
monacemebiT naTqvamia, rom
kviraSi 200-mde axali SemTxveva
Tu aRmoCnda, es udablesi riskia,
romelic aranair gangaSis
safuZvels ar iZleva. cota
ufro saSiSia 200-idan 400-mde
SemTxveva. amitom absurdia axla
afeTqebaze saubari. mesmis, rom
nebismieri mTavroba gamoiyenebda
saTavisod idealur statistikur
cifrebs, magram amis fonze,
meore mxriv, arCevnebis
SiSiT mTavroba apanikebs mosaxleobas,
rom axla situacia stabiluria,
magram meore talRas
unda velodoTo, rac aseve legitimur
eWvs aCens, rom ara marto
uflebebs SegizRudavs, aramed
situacias manipulaciisTvis
gamoiyenebs arCevnebis win. am
kanoniT ar gamovricxav, rom
kovidis statistikuri maCvenebeli
gazardon.
_ xelovnurad?
_ diax, xelovnurad an ubralod
gaakeTeb 100 tests, gamogivlindeba
1 inficirebuli, Tundac
usimptomo, gaakeTeb uceb 5
aTas tests da a. S. xalxis fsiqologiaze
zemoqmedebisTvis da
propagandisTvis, xalxis dasaSineblad
gamoiyenebs mTavroba.
_ frenebze ras gvetyviT an
es xuTi qveyana ris mixedviT
SearCies?
_ CexeTSi, poloneTSi, avstriaSi
bevrad ukeTesi monacemebia,
arada, piriqiT iyo. aqac tyuis
mTavroba. igi cdilobs, regularuli
frenebi gadados, radgan
damkvirveblebi ar Semovidnen.
aTasobiT damkvirvebeli unda
Camovides da isini Camodian 2
TviT adre, amitom Tu agvisto-
Si ar gaixsneba frenebi, es pirdapir
niSnavs, rom damkvirveblebi
ar Semovidnen saqarTveloSi.
_ ra iqneba am SemTxvevaSi?
_ roca unda da rasac unda,
imas SezRudavs mTavroba. Sesa-
Zloa, pirdapir gaayalbon, xalxis
uflebebi SezRudon, daaSinon,
daaSantaJon da Sesabamisad,
damkvirvebeli Tu ar iqna, Sesasergo
CixlaZe:
`ivaniSvili
iZulebuli iqneba,
aqtiurad gamoCndes,
radgan `qarTul
ocnebas~ meti xma da
popularoba sWirdeba~
`dRes SezRudvebis gaxangrZlivebis
saWiroeba ar arsebobs~
rogorc absoluturi ricxvebiT,
igive milion mosaxle gada-
TvliT, vidre Tundac safrangeTSi
an germaniaSi. CexeTis
sagareo saqmeTa ministris gancxadebiT,
_ imitom ar gixsniT
sazRvrebs, rom Tqven ar mixsni-
To. saqarTvelos mTavrobam upasuxa,
mxolod pirvel agvistomde
ar gixsniTo. Semdeg CexeTis
sagareo saqmeTa ministrma ramdenjerme
gaimeora, rom es aris
ormxrivi procesi da Sen Tu ar
xsni, mec ar gixsnio. axla saqar-
Tvelos mTavrobas ise unda warmoaCinos,
rom is ratomac ar mixsnis,
mec imitom ar gavuxsenio.
`CexeTis sagareo saqmeTa ministris gancxadebiT,
- imitom ar gixsniT sazRvrebs, rom Tqven ar
mixsniTo. saqarTvelos mTavrobam upasuxa,
mxolod pirvel agvistomde ar gixsniTo. Semdeg
CexeTis sagareo saqmeTa ministrma ramdenjerme
gaimeora, rom es aris ormxrivi procesi da Sen
Tu ar xsni, mec ar gixsnio. axla saqarTvelos
mTavrobas ise unda warmoaCinos, rom is
ratomac ar mixsnis, mec imitom ar gavuxsenio.
arada, piriqiT iyo. aqac tyuis mTavroba. igi
cdilobs, regularuli frenebi gadados,
radgan damkvirveblebi ar Semovidnen~
bamisi reportebic ver gaigzavneba
evropis qalaqebSi da meti
Sansi eqneba, yvelanairi fasis
gareSe gaayalbos.
_ am kanonproeqts eTanxmebian
is medikosebi, romlebic uSualod
CarTulebi arian kovide-
pidemiis procesebSi?
_ medikosebis CarTulobaze
verafers getyviT, magram jandacvis
komitetis CarTulobaze
mogaxsenebT, rom mas didi wvlili
miuZRvis am kanonis miRebaSi.
_ biZina ivaniSvils, romelic
aqtiur politikaSi brundeba,
erTi kviris win mTavrobis
wevrebTan hqonda distanciuri
Sexvedra. xom ar fiqrobT, rom
es kanonic swored mis sur-
vilzea morgebuli?
_ SeiZleba, fizikurad ar gaxldaT
da imitomac CaerTo distanciurad,
Tumca kiTxvebi daisva,
rom sami Tvis ganmavlobaSi
oligarqi ar Canda da swored
axla gamoCnda. es pirdapir spekulaciebia
da ar minda, rom am
kuTxiT waviyvano saubari. biZina
ivaniSvili iZulebuli iqneba,
aqtiurad gamoCndes, radgan mis
„qarTul ocnebas” meti xma da
popularoba sWirdeba, lideris
gareSe ki es rTuli iqneba Tvi-
Ton maTi mxardaWerebisTvis.
_ am gadmosaxedidan Tqveni
prognozi rogoria? ramdenad
mosalodnelia arCevnebis gada-
deba?
_ „qarTuli ocnebisgan” da
misi mmarTvelisgan arafers gamovricxav,
magram logikurad Tu
vimsjelebT, „qarTul ocnebas”
ar unda awyobdes arCevnebis
gadadeba. marTalia, mTavroba koronainfeqciis
cifrebiT amayobs,
magram, meore mxriv, mTlianad
CamoiSala ekonomika. rac ufro
gadadebs xelisufleba arCevnebs,
es uaryofiTi ganwyoba _ siRaribe,
kidev ufro TvalsaCino
gaxdeba mosaxleobaSi. ar mgonia,
rom amis gadadeba awyobdes.
20 N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
rezo SatakiSvili
597 94 42 50
Cveni ambavi iciT, ras magonebs?
vinme mayvala kvaskvasa wiTel kabas rom Caicvams da soflis
Saraze gamoenTeba. gamoenTeba da buRa gamoudgeba, sofel-
sofel rom arbeninebs da mere rom dajdeba da mosTqvams, buRa
gamomidgao. Zalian kargad rom icis, wiTeli feri buRas aRi-
zianebs da mainc rom ukvirs da mainc rom ver xvdeba, ra kav-
Siricaa mis mier Cacmul wiTel kabasa da buRis gamokidebas
Soris. ase brZandebiT sazogadoebis is nawili, vinc qalbato-
ni salome zurabiSvili didis ambiT airCieT prezidentad!
icodiT, rac iyo, mainc airCieT da dRes gikvirT, rom gamo-
dis da miuRebel da gulisamrev gancxadebebs akeTebs!
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
es? ar gaxsovT, rogor moiqca
gavrilovis ambebis Semdeg, qveyana
rom duRda? rogor wavida da
SuaRamisas rogor Caipirqvava
qoTniT lobio? madlobeli ar
varT, axla maTlafa xaSiTa da
„butilka” JipitauriT rom ar
aRniSna es tragedia?
gekiTxebiT, ra gikvirT misgan?
gana, arCevnebamde ar etyoboda,
ra iyo da vin iyo? Tu is
le da pasuxad ovaciebi miiRos?
an ras eZaxis bulings, _ pasuxad
agdebul Sefasebebs rom iRebs
sruliad damsaxurebulad? bulingi
ar nebavs, daiRala, Turme,
bulingisgan! arada, bulingi is
iyo, rasac igi, salome qarTveli,
awarmoebda saerTaSoriso masStabiT
saqarTvelos pirvel prezident
zviad gamsaxurdias winaaRmdeg!
diax, swored salome
sastikad mokluli 19 wlis
biWis mkvlelobis saqmeSi qveynis
prezidenti ver xedavs verc saqmis
Cafarcxvis mcdelobas, ar
esmis sazogadoebis protestis
xma gamoZiebis mimarT, arc is
aRelvebs, mTeli saxelisuflebo
vertikali rom aris Cabmuli damnaSaveebis
mfarvelobaSi, arafers
ambobs am yvelaferze, imasac
ar gveubneba calybad, rom Tvals
miadevnebs saqmes, moiTxovs
mkvlelebis dasjas! ara da ara!
araferze krints ar Zravs, mZime
kriminogenur viTarebazec ar
iRebs xmas da problemas mxolod
imaSi xedavs, rom es sastiki Zaladoba
jgufuri iyo! gesmiT Tu
ara?! problema mxolod is iyo,
rom ramdenime erTad urtyamda
Saqaras! erTs rom ecema da moekla,
misaRebi iqneboda?
diax, salome zurabiSvilis
azriT, misaRebi yofila! metic,
vaJkacoba yofila!
mere ki mogvdga Jurnalistebs
da Cven dagvadanaSaula bulingsa
da qarTuli enis arcodnaSi
(„Tu Tqven ar gesmiT qarTuli,
Tqveni problema aris”), magram
vnaxoT, ra brZana qalbatonma
zurabiSvilma sityvasityviT da
mere vTqvaT, sxvanairad Tu Sei-
Zleboda am gancxadebis gageba:
„vaJkacoba vici erTi erTze,
ar vici me es jgufuri, agresiuli
da Zaladoba adamianebze, es
aris Zalian miuRebeli, Zalian
araqarTuli da, me mgoni, Cven
unda davubrundeT Cvens Rirebulebebs.
kidev ufro didi va-
Jkacoba vici me es aris aRiareba
da kidev ufro maRali donis
vaJkacoba, es aris monanieba”.
zurabiSvili gasagebad ambobs,
rom vaJkacoba icis erTi
erTze, rom „es jgufuri, agresiuli
da Zaladoba adamianebze”
misTvis miuRebeli da Zalian
araqarTulia. meti ranairadRa
Tqvas, ra iyo miuRebeli SaqaraSvilis
tragikul istoriaSi?
Tu jgufur Zaladobas gmobs
da miiCnevs miuReblad da iqve
ambobs, rom vaJkacoba icis erTi
erTze, bodiSi da sxva ra gamodis,
Tu ara is, rom is vaJkacobad
miiCnevs erTi erTze muStikrivs?
da es muSti-krivi erTis
mier meoreze warmoebuli Zaladoba
ar aris?
ukacravad da romelime moragbem
an Ziudoistma me rom gamiyvanos
da Suaze gamglijos, erTi
nawili aragvSi moisrolos da
meore _ mtkvarSi, salomes doqtriniT
ra gamodis? unda gamovides
da vaJkacoba unda Seuqos
Cems mkvlels?
gekiTxebiT, vis ar esmis qarTuli?!
_ qarTul medias Tu mas?!
ki, xSirad qarTuli mediac scodavs
qarTuli enis codnaSi, magram
rbilad rom vTqvaT, sasaciloa,
rodesac qarTulis codnas
giwunebs qalbatoni, romelic
wiTelkabiani
mayvala da erTi
erTze Cxubis
metrfe salome
iseTive warmatebiT abrunebs saxelebs
da auRlebs zmnebs, rogorc
acxobs saaRdgomo paskebs _
motitynilsa da mixruk-moxrukuls.
qarTuls gviwunebs qali,
romelsac sjera, rom „marTmadiania”,
aRarafers vambob „Jurnalistebze
da analistebze” an
imazed: „sadac ar unda gaTxaro,
yvelgan SegiZlia gaTxaro”; „er-
Tad unda SevtynaT da amiTi wavalT
win”...
miuxedavad amisa, is gamodis
da Cven gvadanaSaulebs, rom ar
gvesmis qarTuli. misi utifrobis
koeficienti imdenad maRalia,
rom miuSva, mzeqala SaniZesac
SesZaxebs, _ ar gesmis qarTulio!
amdenad, ra gasakviria, medias
dagvZaxos da Cagvizustos kidec:
„ar miTqvams, rom erTi erTze Zaladoba
kargia, ar miTqvams arc
Cxubi. vTqvi erTi erTze vaJkacoba
da erTi erTze aris cxovrebaSi
yvelaferi, saubari, siyvaruli,
Tqven albaT ar iciT”.
erTi erTze siyvarulio... ra
vici, adre „erTad Setyvnisken”
mogviwodebda win wasawevad da
axla erTi erTze gvirCevs... es,
ra Tqma unda, xumrobiT. mar-
Tlac mware xumrobis meti raRa
dagvrCenia, rodesac qveynis prezidenti
19 wlis biWis sastik
mkvlelobaSi marTla verafers
xedavs gasaprotestebels _ verc
mZime kriminogenur viTarebas,
verc dausjelobis sindroms,
verc damnaSaveebis mfarvelobas,
Segnebulad gayalbebul Tu gindac
arakvalificiur gamoZiebas,
verc mowmeTa Secvlil Cvenebebs,
gadabugul SemTxvevis adgils,
verafers, sruliad verafers!
verafers xedavs, araferze xmas
ar iRebs da mainc ar Cumdeba da
raRac sisuleles bodavs!
magram ra gasakviria misgan
Temaa, ra gamoviwere da ra Camomivida?
ra, kondoliza raisi,
dalia gribauskaite, Tansu Cileri,
madlen olbraiti gamoiwereT
da salome zurabiSvili CamogividaT?
ara, batonebo, Zalian kargad
icodiT, ra „fruqtic” iyo, visac
irCevdiT, magram mainc airCieT.
axlac asea, gadasarevad iciT,
xedavT, vin vinaa, yovel SemTxvevaSi,
unda xedavdeT, magram mainc
waxvalT da Tqvenive da Tqveni
Svilebis jibrze mainc yvelaze
uvargiss miscemT xmas.
salome zurabiSvili ki isev
gaagrZelebs gamaognebeli da
qveynis damazianebeli gancxadebebis
keTebas, fexSiSvel tantals,
atmis krefas, Tu elarjis
zelvas, lobios Wamasa da jonjolis
muWiT yras, mas es hgonia
prezidentoba. diax, batonebo,
man Tqveni qveynis prezidentoba
Tavisi siberis gaferadebad miiCnia
da iferadebs kidec, dgas,
yvelas zemodan dagvyurebs da
roca xmas viRebT, janri kaSias
ki ara, Wipilias coliviT dagvkivis.
marto Cven ki ara, TviT ombudsmensac
ki.
mas Semdeg, rac saqarTvelos
ombudsmenma sruliad samarTlianad
gaakritika misi yovlad samarcxvino
gancxadeba, salomem
operis WaRiviT dakidebuli sayureebi
gaaqan-gamoaqana da misma
administraciam didi ustari
gaaSanSala ombudsmenis sapasuxod.
magram es gancxadeba imas ufro
hgavda, kapasi mazlis coli
rom waakecavs xolme CxubSi mazlis
cols axalTan erTad ZvelisZvel
ambebs. zustad ase mohyvnen
da jer kidev winaasarCevno
periodSi dagrovili boRma gadmoanTxies:
„Tavi aarida reagirebas
qali kandidatis mimarT gakeTebul
Seuracxmyofel gancxadebebze
da Tundac misi Svilebis
mimarT muqaraze”.
jer erTi, sruliad gaugebaria,
ras niSnavs qali kandidatis
mimarT gakeTebuli Seuracxmyofeli
gancxadebebi? moica, kaci
kandidatis mimarT Seuracxmyofeli
gancxadebebis keTeba mosula
da qalis mimarT _ ara? kacs
rom SvilebiT daemuqro, es misaRebia
da Tu qals daemuqre _
aRmaSfoTebeli? da saerTod, ra
mniSvneloba aqvs politikur
brZolasa an socialur yofaSi
qali xar Tu kaci? es rogoraa,
Tavad iTxov genderul Tanasworobas
da mere kacis Tanasworad
rom glanZRaven da gTaTxaven,
eg aRar gepitnaveba da rogorc
qali, SeRavaTebs iTxov?
genderze apelireba logikuri
da gamarTlebulia mxolod
maSin, Tu vinme swored genderuli
niSniT gitevs da cdilobs
Sens diskriminacias.
saqarTvelos ombudsmenma sakmaod
principuli da amomwuravi
pasuxi gasca salome zurabiSvils.
gasagebad ganumarta, rom mas,
rogorc ombudsmens, reagireba
eqneba maSin, rodesac igi an rogorc
prezidenti an rogorc mTavarsardali
daeqvemdebareba diskriminacias
genderuli niSniT!
danarCen SemTxvevaSi ki mas
Tmenis valdebuleba Seaxsena.
diax, maRali Tanamdebobis pirebs
xSirad uwevT mkacri kritikisa
da agresiuli gancxadebebis
mosmena, magram rogorc ombudsmeni
salomes uxsnis: „es aris
Cveni valdebulebis Semadgeneli
nawili Cven gvaqvs Tmenis
valdebuleba”. lomjariam zurabiSvils
isic Seaxsena, rom misi
vali araa romelime Tanamdebobis
piris dacva sazogadoebis bulingisgan:
„Cemi mandati ar iTvaliswinebs
Sevafaso, romelime
Tanamdebobis pirs sazogadoeba
abulingebs Tu ara. araswori
gancxadebebi keTdeba, roca Tanamdebobis
pirebi saxalxo damcvels
sTxoven, daicvan isini
sazogadoebis bulingisgan”.
marTlac sainteresoa, ra nebavs
qalbaton prezidents? gamovides,
abraxunos aTasi sisule-
zurabiSvili eweoda zviad gamsaxurdias
winaaRmdeg sruliad
aRviraxsnil bulings dasavlur
mediaSi. metic: jaba-kitovansiguas
mimarT osanas galobiT
Seegeba zviad gamsaxurdias damxobas,
1992 wlis 7 ianvarsve gamoxta
da gamoacxada: „zviad gamsaxurdia,
rogorc diqtatori,
daamxo demokratiulma Zalebma.
amisTvis Tengiz kitovans, jaba
ioselians, Tengiz siguasa da
mTel opozicias didi madloba.
salome zurabiSvili”.
diax, swored salome zurabiSvili
eweoda Tavis qmar janri
kaSiasTan erTad cilismwameblur
kampanias saqarTvelos pirveli
prezdentis winaaRmdeg.
zviad gamsaxurdia 1991 wlis
2 Tebervlis preskonferenciaze
acxadebda: „radio „Tavisuflebis”
qarTuli redaqcia saqarTvelos
mtrebis xelSia. gesmiT, kremlis
agenturis xelSia. pirvel
rigSi, kaSia, laSqaraSvili, klimiaSvili
da ai, eseni daTareSoben
eTerSi da msoflios wamlaven”.
ai, am qals, am bulingisa da
cilismwamebluri kampaniis avtor
qals, dRes bulingi aRizianebs.
unda, ise araxunos sisuleleebi,
rom pasuxic ki aravin gasces,
arc aravin gamoTaTxos, arc
gamolanZRos, arc dawyevlos.
bulingi ar uyvars. ara, rogor
ar uyvars, magram maSin uyvars,
roca TviTon eweva da maSin sZuls,
roca mas atydeba xalxis samarTliani
risxva.
dabolos, didev erTxel yvelaferi
Tqveni bralia, Tqven CaicviT
wiTeli kaba, Tqven gamoiwereT
salome zurabiSvili da
CamogividaT salome zurabiSvili.
rac gamoiwereT, is CamogividaT
da SeirgeT da SeizileT.
N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
21
22
goCa mircxulava
599 26 83 83
Cven absoluturad gadaveCvieT
fiqrs. Sesabamisad, gviWirs swori analizis gakeTeba da adekvaturi
daskvnebis gamotana calkeuli procesebidan. an, iqneb, arc arasodes
gvifiqria, minimum, 200 weli, araferze garda Cveni komfortis
uzrunvelyofisa? diax, araferi gvifiqria mas Semdeg, rac aleqsan-
dres periodSi gaerTianebuli saqarTvelo daiSala, ereklem
itraqtata da Cvens nacvlad fiqri grafma voroncovma daiwyo... mere
ra, rom SigadaSig qarTvelebic fiqrobdnen _ magaliTad, solomon
dodaSvili an ilia WavWavaZe, vaJa-fSavela, gnebavT, kirion saZa-
gliSvili Tu ambrosi xelaia? ra Segvmata mixeil javaxiSvilisa Tu
sandro axmetelis fiqrma, konstantine gamsaxurdiam, jansuR Carkvi-
anis Tundac erTma frazam, rom „Tavisufleba lomTa xvedria”, rame
gvatyvia Cven merab kostavas an zviad gamsaxurdias fiqris Sede-
gad? _ arc araferi! Cven fiqris, analizisa da moqmedebis ufleba
sxvas gadavabareT, viRacas _ vinc zemoT dgas. gadavabareT imisTvis,
rom im viRacam uzrunvelyos Cveni piradi komforti. da Tu kargad
davakvirdebiT, imis gamo, rom ar vfiqrobT, umetesoba roca xelisuflebis
SecvlisTvis an SenarCunebisTvis ibrZvis, am yvelafris
miRma saxelmwifos warmatebas ki ar iazrebs, aramed garantire-
buli piradi komfortisTvis amtvrevs Tavpirs mowinaaRmdeges, rom
Tavad icxovros kargad, xolo kargi cxovrebisTvis ki swored iman
ifiqros, vinc xelisuflebis saTaveSia.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
Cven ar vfiqrobT, rom saxelmwifo
var me, aris is, is, ai, isic...
ar vfiqrobT, rom saxelmwifo
varT Cven, radgan maSin mogviwevs
fiqri valdebulebebzec da pasuxismgeblobazec,
romelic saxelmwifos
winaSe unda hqondes moqalaqes.
maSin izRudeba Cveni CaliCis
areali, rom Tavidan aviciloT
valdebuleba da pasuxismgebloba,
rom nepotizmiT, proteqcionizmiTa
da aTasi maqinaciiT
SevZloT movipovoT is, rac realurad
ar gvekuTvnis; maSin mogviwevs
kanonis winaSe pasuxismgebloba
da aSkarad daviCagrebiT konkurentul
garemoSi. da gana ase
ar sjobs, rodesac marifaTiT SegviZlia
mivaRwioT Tundac imas,
rac warmoudgenelia gvqondes welgamarTuli
saxelmwifos pirobebSi?
moicaT, moicaT... mgoni, saku-
Tar Tavs vewinaaRmdegebi... amden
ramesac xom fiqri unda? e. i.
vfiqrobT... a, xo, mivxvdi ukuRmar-
Tad da „CemTvis” sasargeblod...
diax, „CemTvis” da swored es uku-
RmarTi fiqri klavs saxelmwifoebrivi
azrovnebis unars.
***
da vinc fiqrobs, imaT mouwevT
aRiareba, rom dRes qarTveli
xalxi (nu aurevT erSi) politikuri
procesebis aqtiuri subieqtidan
procesebis mayurebel
pasiur subieqtad gadaiqca. netav,
ratom? me ki maqvs Cemi vrceli
axsna, magram misi gaxmovanebis azrs
ver vxedav, mxolod ori sityviT
vityvi _ xelisuflebebi politikas
ar unda klavdnen, satelit
partiebsa da viTom opoziciebs ar
unda qmnidnen da satelitobac da
„viTomobac” cudi toni unda iyos.
saqarTvelos yvela xelisuflebas
aqvs sakuTari braleuloba am saxelmwifosa
da misi moqalaqeebis
winaSe, yvelas! vis meti, vis naklebi
es gemovnebisa da davis sakiTxia.
nebismieri „istobac” Cveni moqalaqeebis
arasaxelmwifoebrivi
azrovnebis Sedegia da maTi swrafvis
demonstrirebaa konformizmisken...
aq funaSi yofna jerac kargi
tonia... funa visia, esec gemovnebis
kategoriaa.
***
am yvelafris dasturad telekompania
„formulas” dakveTiT avtoritetuli
kompania Edison Research-is
mier Caatarebuli kvlevis
pasaJebic gamodgeba. kvleva 23 ivnisin
_ 13 ivlisis periodSi, pirispir
gamokiTxvis meTodiT Catarda.
kvlevis farglebSi SemTxvevi-
Ti SerCeviT gamoikiTxa saqarTveloSi
mcxovrebi 18 wlisa da meti
asakis 2101 adamiani. Sedegebis
cdomileba + - 2.1%-ia.
SeveSvaT yoveli kvlevis bolos
politikosebisa da calkeuli
„pro” eqspertebis Jongliorobas
imis Sesaxeb, rom kvlevebs ar endobian
an endobian. es imis mixedviT,
vin visi urmis (rols-roisis)
mgzavria. xSirad miTqvams mec, rom
saqarTveloSi sociologia ar
muSaobs, ar muSaobs imis gaTvaliswinebiT,
rom respondentebis
umetesoba cruobs da gulwrfeli
ar aris. ar muSaobs imitom, rom
politikur nawilSi poziorobs an
pirad survilebze dayrdnobiT
afasebs realobas, socialurekonomikur
nawilSi ki mudam mowyalebas
iTxovs da beCavi kacis
pozas iRebs. Tumca, amis miuxedavad,
isinic ki, vinc pozioroben,
rom kvlevebis ar sjeraT, kolosalur
Tanxebs xarjaven kvlevebSi.
magram aq ubedureba is aris, rom
aranairi Tanxebi ar ixarjeba moqalaqeTa
mwyobri saxelmwifoebrivi
azrovnebis uzrunvelsayofad,
minimum, swori veqtoris gansasazRvrad.
sworad SeniSna eTnikur da konfesiur
urTierTobaTa centris
xelmZRvanelma lela jejelavam
bolo kvlevis Sedegebis komentirebisas:
Tu am kvlevebs gavaanalizebT,
„politikuri procesis ra
giTxraT, magram sazogadoebis
zust diagnozs namdvilad mivi-
RebT”. da es diagnozi sakmaod
negatiuria, sakmaod...
ase davsvaT sakiTxi, _ Cvens sazogadoebas
saxelmwifoebriobis
minimaluri gancda rom hqondes,
nomer pirvel problebad
umuSevrobas ki ara, okupacias
unda asaxelebdes, sulac SimSiliT
rom xdebodes suli. calke sakiTxia
is, rom am SemTxvevaSic da
sxva kvlevebis drosac, problemebis
CamonaTvalSi miTiTebulia
„okupirebuli teritoriebi”. ar
vici, saidan movida es formulireba,
magram cxadia, rom es aris briyvuli
formulireba. problema ver
iqneba „okupirebuli teritoriebi”,
problema Tavad okupaciaa da
am gaazrebiT Tu rame unda dasaxeldes
saxelmwifosTvis nomer
pirvel problemad, es gaxlavT
„okupacia” da amaze erovnuli konsensusi
unda arsebobdes. magram
amas goniereba sWirdeba da sworad
fiqri, romlis aSkara deficitia,
Torem saxelmwifos, romlis 22
procenti ukupirebulia, misi moqalaqeebi
am dilemas meoTxe rigis
problemad ar unda ganixilavdnen.
kvlevis Sedegebis mixedviT,
saqarTvelos mosaxleobis umravlesoba
_ 72% _ qveynis winaSe
mdgom mniSvnelovan problemad
umuSevrobas asaxelebs; 61% asaxelebs
siRaribes; 48% _ mzard
fasebs; 26% _ okupirebul teritoriebs;
16% _ jandacvas; aseve
16% asaxelebs koronaviruss, rogorc
mniSvnelovan problemas. Semdeg
modis ganaTleba (12%), kanonis
uzenaesobis nakleboba (10%);
korufcia (8%); garemos dacvis
cxovreba
`edison riserCis~ kvleva da qarTvelTa
Seucnobeli gzani da fiqrni
problemebi (4%); mediis Tavisufleba
(1%).
barem am blokSi aseve ramdenime
Zalian mniSvnelovani sakiTxi _
mTavari problemebi, romelsac
Cveni Tanamoqalaqe iazrebs, Ziri-
Tadad socialuri xasiaTisiaa. magram
ginaxavT am qveyanaSi demonstraciebi,
aqciebi, masStaburi gamosvlebi
socialuri TematikiT? _
ara! ratom? es kidev calke sakiTxia.
magram respondentebi ver iazreben,
rom es problemebi mudmivad
iqneba, Tu maT arasaTanado
ganaTleba eqnebaT. aq aris erTi
friad uxerxuli faqtoric _ imdenad
uWirT imis aRiareba, rom
qveynis mosaxleoba, Tavad da maTi
Svilebi, arasaTanadod, arasakmarisad
ganaTlebulebi arian,
rogorc profesiulad aseve mecnierulad,
rom urCevniaT, am sakiTxs
wauyruon. wesiT, socialuri
problematika mizezSedegobrivi
kavSiris konteqstSia gansaxilveli,
magram amas gamokiTxuli respondentebi
ar akeTeben. SexedeT,
daakvirdiT, opoziciuri partiebisa
da mediis yoveldRiuri Temebi
kanonis uzenaesobaze, korufciaze
mosaxleobas didad ar
anaRvlebs, mediis Tavisuflebis
sakiTxi xom saerTod. anu ra gamodis?
partiebi Tundac am nawilSi
ver zomaven mosaxleobis ganwyobebs
da ar arian adekvaturebi,
Tundac problemis safuZvelebis
sworad gaazrebis saSualeba rom
miscen mosaxleobas.
xSirad aRminiSnavs, rom Cven
kerpTayvanismcemeli xalxi varT,
magram am SemTxvevaSic vTaRliTobT,
vfarisevlobT xolme. Cven is
xalxi varT, romelmac yovelgvari
idealebis, gaazrebis, codnis
gareSe erT mSvenier dRes gadaagdo
an skivrSi Seinaxa partbileTi
da mkerdze jvari daikida. Cveni
morwmuneoba metwilad imiT izomeba,
vis ufro Zvirfasi jvari kidia
da vin ufro met Sesawirs miitans
taZarSi. bolo dros saqarTvelos
marTlmadidebel eklesiaSi, ufro
sworad, mis administraciaSi ganviTarebulma
movlenebma, met-naklebad
Seasusta eklesiis avtoriteti,
magram naxeT, ra xdeba? _
Catarebuli kvlevis SedegebiT
saqarTvelos mosaxleobis yvelaze
didi wili _ 90% _ jars endoba.
meore adgilze eklesiaa _ 88% ambobs,
rom mas endoba. Semdeg daavadebaTa
kontrolis erovnuli
centri modis 79%-iT. policias
70% endoba, universitetebs _ 69%;
qarTul medias _ 68%; premier-ministrs
_ 63%; ombudsmens _ 61%;
adgilobriv xelisuflebas _ 57%;
mTavrobas _ 52%; ceskos _ 51%;
NGO-ebs _ aseve 51%; ndobis yvelaze
dabali maCvenebeli ki
saqarTvelos prezidents aqvs _
59% ambobs, rom mas ar endoba.
aseve 58% ar endoba politikur
partiebs; 58% ambobs, rom ar endoba
qarTul bankebs; 54% ar endoba
prokuraturas; aseve 54% ar
endoba sasamarTloebs; 51% ar endoba
parlaments.
am nawilSi paradoqsis donezea
kerpTayvanismcemeli gamokiTxulebis
azrovneba. eklesiis, romelmac
kovidis dros saxelmwifo regulaciebi
fexebze daikida, reitingi
88%-ia, xolo im eqimebis,
davkonkretdebi _ daavadebaTa
kontrolis erovnuli centris _
romlis rekomendaciebis safuZvelzec
mTavroba regulaciebs
awesebda, xolo centris xelmZRvanelebi
mosaxleobas mouwodebdnen,
maT Soris eklesiebSi misvlis
TavSekavebisken da realurad
akrZales es procesi _ 79%.
cxadia, respondentebis umetesoba
ver xvdeba, rom eklesiis reitingi
da ndoba arafer SuaSia
individis rwmenasTan. amitomac,
rodesac maT eklesias usaxeleben,
isini, pirvel rigSi, imis xazgasmas
cdiloben, rom Tavad arian „mrevli”
da morwmuneni. magram 88% da
79% rogor esadageba erTmaneTs
Tundac Tavnebobisa da kanonis
sakiTxSi?
***
axla politikuri nawili gaviaroT
zedmeti siRrmeebis garSe.
kvlevis Sedegebis mixedviT, Tu
vis miscemdnen xmas, saparlamento
arCevnebi dRes rom Catardes, pasuxebi
Semdegnairad nawildeba:
„qarTuli ocneba” _ 39%;
„erTiani nacionaluri moZraoba”
_ 16%;
„evropuli saqarTvelo _ Tavisufali
demokratebi” _ 5%;
mosaxleobis 20% ambobs, rom ar
gadauwyvetia, vis miscems xmas;
leiboristuli partia _ 3%;
„lelo” _ 3%;
„axali saqarTvelosTvis”
(giorgi vaSaZe-„strategia aRmaSenebeli”)
_ 3%;
patriotTa aliansi _ 3%;
„girCi” _ 2%;
„moqalaqeebi” (aleko elisaSvili)
_ 2%;
„demokratiuli moZraoba er-
Tiani saqarTvelo (nino burjanaZe)”
_ 1%;
„gamarjvebuli saqarTvelo”
(irakli oqruaSvili) _ 1%;
„samarTlianobisTvis” (eka beselia)
_ 1%;
„Tavisufali saqarTvelo” (kaxa
kukava) _ 1%.
mxolod erTi SeniSvna Tu kiTxva,
_ ratom aris calke warmodgenili
enm? sad aris „Zala erToba-
Sia”? rogori iqneboda enm-sa da
gaerTianebuli opoziciis erToblovi
Sedegi? ratom „daSales” kvlevis
avtorebma es gaerTianeba?
kidev erTi kiTxva, _ Tu kvlevis
mixedviT, „qarTuli ocnebis”
umravlesobaSi darCenis nacvlad
parlamentis mmarTvelis rolSi
gamokiTxulTa 59%-s surs axali
partia(ebi) ixilos, xolo „ocnebas”
isev 41% emxroba, maSin reitingSi
es 2 procenti ratom daaklda
„ocnebas”?
amomrCevlis aramwyobr azrovnebaze
miuTiTebs Semdegi Sedegic,
Tan Tu wina procentebs daakvirdebiT
_ saqarTvelos mosaxleobis
umravlesoba ambobs, rom 2020
wlis saparlamento arCevnebSi
opoziciis gamarjvebis SemTxveva-
Si, Semdegi 12 Tvis ganmavlobaSi,
qveynis momavali ukeTesi iqneba.
ase mosaxleobis 56% fiqrobs. Sesabamisad,
44% ambobs, rom am
pirobebSi momavali uaresi iqneba.
anu visac parlamentSi gamarjvebul
Zalad opozicia surs, maTgan
3% darwmunebulia, rom opoziciis
mmarTvelobis pirobebSi momavali
12 Tve cudi iqneba? amas me xom
ar vamtkiceb, ager gamokiTxvis
22 N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
TviTganadgurebis reJimSi
Sedegebi gveubneba.
saqarTvelos mosaxleobis 71%
ambobs, rom monawileobas miiRebs
2020 wlis saparlamento arCevneb-
Si, kidev 23% ki fiqrobs, rom albaT
miiRebs arCevnebSi monawileobas.
mosaxleobis mxolod 2% ambobs,
rom arCevnebSi monawileobas
namdvilad ar miiRebs, damatebiT
4% ki varaudobs, rom arCevnebze
albaT ar wava. anu arCevnebze amomrCevlis
98% miva? isev ityuebian
respondentebi...
Semdeg kiTxvaze mediam aseTi
formulireba gansazRvra, rom
premier gaxarias dadebiTad
afasebs mosaxleobis meti wili,
vidre biZina ivaniSvilso da monacemebic
warmoadgina:
giorgi gaxaria _ 65% pozitiuri;
35% negatiuri;
kaxa kalaZe _ 55% pozitiuri;
45% negatiuri;
biZina ivaniSvili _ 48% pozitiuri;
52% negatiuri;
irakli RaribaSvili _ 45%
pozitiuri; 55% negatiuri;
arCil TalakvaZe _ 37% pozitiuri;
63% negatiuri;
irakli kobaxiZe _ 33% pozitiuri;
67% negatiuri.
magram aq erTi mniSvnelovani
kiTxvaa, romelsac mogvianebiT
qvemoT gavaxmovaneb da kvlav respondentTa
aramwyobr azrovnebaze
momiwevs apelireba.
ai, aseve friad paradoqsuli
pasuxebi morig kiTxvaze, _ rogoria
damokidebuleba ama Tu im
partiis mimarT? pasuxebi Semdegnairad
nawildeba:
„axali saqarTvelosTvis”
(giorgi vaSaZe _ „strategia aRmaSenebeli”)
_ 36% pozitiuri; 64%
negatiuri;
„evropuli saqarTvelo _ Tavisufali
demokratebi” _ 35% pozitiuri;
65% negatiuri;
leiboristuli partia _ 33%;
pozitiuri; 67% negatiuri;
„qarTuli ocneba” _ 33% pozitiuri;
67% negatiuri;
„moqalaqeebi” (aleko elisaSvili)
_ 32% pozitiuri; 68% negatiuri;
„enm _ gaerTianebuli opozicia”
_ 29% pozitiuri; 71% negatiuri;
„patriotTa aliansi” _ 29%
pozitiuri; 71% negatiuri;
„lelo” _ 27% pozitiuri; 73%
negatiuri;
„gamarjvebuli saqarTvelo”
(irakli oqruaSvili) _ 23% pozitiuri;
77% negatiuri;
„Tavisufali saqarTvelo” (kaxa
kukava) _ 21% pozitiuri; 79% negatiuri.
SexedeT, gamokiTxulebi yvelaze
metad pozitiurebi arian „axali
saqarTvelosTvis” (giorgi
vaSaZe _ „strategia aRmaSenebeli”)
da „evropuli saqarTvelo _ Tavisufali
demokratebis” mimarT, ma-
Sin rodesac dRes rom arCevnebi
tardebodes, pirvels _ 3, xolo
meores 5 procenti dauWerda mxars.
gamokiTxulTa 26% ambobs, rom
gamarjvebis SemTxvevaSi opoziciuri
koaliciis premier-ministrobis
kandidati „evropuli saqarTvelos”
lideri daviT baqraZe unda
iyos.
am kiTxvaze pasuxebi Semdegnairad
nawildeba:
daviT baqraZe _ 26%;
giorgi vaSaZe („strategia aRmaSenebeli”)
_ 20%;
grigol vaSaZe _ 18%;
`saqarTvelos mosaxleobis 92% endoba NATO-sa da evrokavSirs. mxolod 8-
8% ambobs, rom xsenebuli gaerTianebebis mimarT ndoba ar aqvs. anu ra
gamodis? - erTi im 28 procentidan vinc ruseTs endoba, natosa da
evrokavSirs endoba 20%?~
mixeil saakaSvili _ 7%;
nika melia _ 5%;
Salva naTelaSvili _ 4%;
irma inaSvili _ 2%;
mamuka xazaraZe _ 2%.
am SemadgenlobaSi irma inaSvili
rogor moxvda gaugebaria. aq
personalurad rogor moxvda,
imaze ar vsaubrob, aramed imaze,
rom prodasavluri opoziciis
premieri inaSvili ver iqneba, eg
xom cxadia. asec rom iyos, ratom
aqvs mas 2%, maSin rodesac dRes
rom arCevnebi tardebodes, „patriotTa
alianss” 3% uWers mxars. an
xazarZes imave gaTvlebiT rogor
aqvs 2% Tu lelos 3% uWers mxars?
araferi pirovnuli baton
daviT baqraZesTan, magram rodesac
opozicia radikalur reformebze
saubrobs, romelime reformebis
momxre interviueri fiqrobs, rom
yvelaze reitinguli opoziciuri
figura radikaluri reformebis
sulisCamdgmeli iqneba? is xom
metwilad gawonasworebuli, mSvidi
da naklebiniciativiani politikuri
figuris STabeWdilebas
tovebs. damokidebulebebs xom
swored is gansazRvravs, ra warmodgenac
aqvs sazogadoebas konkretuli
personis mimarT da ara
is, realurad SeZlebs Tu ara... aqve
dasafiqrebelia, „nacionaluri mo-
Zraobis” 16%-is fonze premierad
grigil vaSaZe rogor surs 18%-s,
xolo persona, romelic „nacionaluri
moZraobis” eleqtoraluri
ganwyobis mTavari ganmsazRvrelia
_ mixeil saakaSvili, premierad
Tanapartielebis, mxardamWerebis
50%-ze mets ratom ar surT? aseve
sainteresoa nika melias 5%. sociologia
yvelanair daSvebas ganixilavs
da am daSvebis pirobebSi
gamodis, rom amomrCevlis _ davakonkreteb,
gamokiTxulTa 30%,
premier-ministrad enm-is kandidaturas
ganixilavs da aseTi jamis
SemTxvevaSi daviT baqraZis pirveli
adgili realurad meore adgili
gaxlavT. ise, giorgi vaSaZis
premierad msurveli 20%, mis partias
ratom ar uWers mxars (3%)?
igive SegviZlia vTqvaT daviT
baqraZeze _ permierad 26%-s surs
da partias 5% uWers mxars. anu ra,
am mxardamWerebma ar ician, premieri
rom gaxdes persona, misi
partiis gamarjveba aucilebelia?
mokled, aseTi araTanmimdevruli
da daufiqrebeli respondentebis
xelSi kidev karg dReSia qveyana.
sayuradReboa kvlevis socialuri
nawili _ saqarTvelos mosaxleobis
umravlesoba (43%) ambobs,
rom momaval 12 Tveze fiqris
dros, maTi azriT, maTi cxovreba
igive iqneba. 32% fiqrobs, rom misi
cxovreba ukeTesi iqneba, 25%-is
azriT ki _ uaresi. kvlevaSi monawileTa
es mosazreba rogor esadageba
maTsave Semdeg pozicias, Tavad
gansajeT _ saqarTvelos mosaxleobis
37%-s Zalian eSinia, rom
axlo momavalSi ar eqneba sakvebisa
da saojaxo sayidlebis SesaZeni
Tanxa, 44-%-s ki odnav eSinia. mxolod
19% ambobs, rom mas amis
saerTod ar eSinia.
anu 37%-s eSinia, 44-s odnav eSinia,
anu mainc eSinia, rom momaval-
Si „xval” ar eqneba sakvebisa da
saojaxo sayidlebis SesaZeni Tanxa.
anu jamSi SeSinebulia 81%. maSin
SeSinebuli adamianebidan 39%
rogor uWers mxars „qarTul ocnebas”?
Tu es maincdamainc odnav
SeSinebulTa kontingentia? ara,
ase ver iqneba. radgan 19%-s saer-
Tod ar eSinia da, savaraudod,
danarCeni 20% „ocnebam” odnav
SeSinebulebidan da SeSinebulebidan
daimata. esec paradoqsis sferodanaa,
_ geSinodes, rom mTavroba
SimSiliT mogklavs da mainc
mas uWerde mxars. anu aq respondentebi
sakuTari Tavis viRacisTvis
Sebralebas cdiloben.
absurdis Teatrs emsgavseba
respondentebis mosazrebebi sagareo
faqtorebTan dakavSirebiT.
Catarebuli kvlevis SedegebiT
mosaxleobis 93% ambobs, rom endoba
ukrainas; aSS-s _ 92%; did
britaneTs _ 90%; israels _ 85%;
TurqeTs _ 74%; azerbaijans _
73%; somxeTs _ 68; irans _ 56.
anu ras niSnavs am SemTxvevaSi
romelime ucxo qveynis ndoba? ras
eyrdoba is? ukrainis SemTxvevaSi
„ocnebis” mxardamWerebis umetesobisTvis
misaRebia ukrainis xelisuflebis
damokidebuleba Tundac
mixeil saakaSvilis daniSvnas-
Tan dakavSirebiT? axla viRac
ityvis, rom respondentebi qveyanas
_ saxelwifos ar ganixilaven xelisuflebebis
prizmaSi. maSin maT
mouwevT axsnan, ras gulisxmoben
ndobaSi. aSS, romelic saqarTvelos
yvelaze didi donoria da
misi demokratiuli ganviTarebis
garanti, ratom aris ndobis TvalsazrisiT
meore adgilze? rogor
aRmoCnda britaneTi mesame adgilze?
gamokiTxulTa mxolod 28% ambobs,
rom endoba ruseTs, 72%-is
azri sapirispiroa. aqve kiTxva, _
radgan Cven, opozicia da calkeuli
megobari, partniori qveynebis
warmomadgenlebi gvimtkiceben,
rom xelisufleba prorusulia,
ratom ver moxerxda ruseTis mxardamWerTa
raodenoba 28%-ze
meti yofiliyo? aq gana mxolod
„ocnebis” mxardamWerebi arian
ndobis gamomxatvelebi?
saqarTvelos mosaxleobis 92%
endoba NATO-sa da evrokavSirs.
mxolod 8-8% ambobs, rom xsenebuli
gaerTianebebis mimarT ndoba
ar aqvs. anu ra gamodis? _ erTi im
28 procentidan vinc ruseTs endoba,
natosa da evrokavSirs endoba
20%? meore _ warmodgenili kvlevis
mixedviT, yvelaze prodasavlur
partia „evropul saqarTvelos”
(am partiisa da enm-s mkveTr
prodasavlurobas xelisufleba
usvams xazs, rodesac saubrobs,
rom maT winaaRmdeg qveynis farglebs
gareT agorebuli kampania
swored am politikur subieqtebs
ukavSirdeba) rogor aqvs 5%, maSin
roca evroatlantikur struqturebSi
integraciis momxrea
92%? da mesame _ gaxsovT, zemoT
gaxarias reitingze saubrisas
aRvniSne, davubrundebi mis sakiTxs-meTqi:
anu am 92%-dan „prorusi”
gaxarias saqmianobas dadebiTad
afasebs 65% da mTlad
ruseTze „mierTebuli” ivaniSvilisas
_ 48%?
mokled, WeSmaritad Seucnobel
ars qarTveli respondentebis
(romelic kvlevaSi mosaxleobad
konvertirdeba) da sabolood
eleqtoratis gzani da fiqrni.
***
da aqve, kidev erTi paradoqsi:
Edison Research-is kvlevis faglebSi
saqarTvelos mosaxleobas (daakvirdiT
formulirebas) hkiTxes, Tu
rogor afasebs rogorc 2004-2012
wlebis, aseve 2012 wlidan dRevandlamde
periods?
2004-2012 wlebis periods mosaxleobis
76% dadebiTad afasebs,
24% _ uaryofiTad. 2012-dan
dRevandlamde periods ki dadebi-
Tad 58% afasebs, uaryofiTad _
42%.
mgoni, me sxva saqarTveloSi vcxovrob.
ukacravad da gamaxseneT,
vin gaimarjva 2012 wlis arCevneb-
Si, procentebi rogor iyo? a, xo,
ukeTesis molodinis gamo daamarcxes
„kargi” da airCies „cudi”,
romelic kargi egonaT? anu realobaSi
kargisa da cudis garCevis
unaric ar gvaqvs da amas „momavali”
sWirdeba da iqidan ukan
gamoxedva?
eh!..
***
erTi fragmenti Teolog guram
lursmanaSvilis Sefasebidan am
kvlevebTan mimarTebiT: „edison
riserCis” bolo kvlevam kidev
erTxel daadastura, rom Cven
Cvenive „bablis” (termini gafiltruli
babli aRwers mdgomareobas,
roca Cven socialur qseleb-
Si (sazogadoebaSi), megobrebis
SerCeviT vqmniT erTgvar Caketil
socialur wres. aseT dros CvenSi
ukve arsebul rwmenebsa da Rirebulebebs
yvela garSemomyofic
iziarebs, rac imis iluzias qmnis,
rom am wris gareTac analogiuri
realoba arsebobs, _ g. m.) tyveebi
varT, vxedavT imas, rac mogvwons,
rasac veTanxmebiT da ara imas, realurad
ra tendenciebic mimdinareobs
qveyanaSi... mag.: fb-s
vfiltravT, vSliT, vblokavT an
gamoweras vuuqmebT im adamians,
romlis Sexedulebebi Cvensas kardinalurad
ewinaaRmdegeba, vuyurebT
mxolod im televiziebs,
romelTa mier gaJRerebuli azri
Cvensas eTanxmeba da a. S. amis Sedegad
Cven iseT saqarTvelos vqmniT,
rogoric Cven gvinda, rom
iyos da amis Sesabamis iluziebSic
vcxovrobT. bablis tyveebi varT
rogorc qveynis Sida, aseve sagareo
politikis dros. am yvelafridan
ki is daskvna gamomaqvs, rom
iluzia da ararealuria fiqrebi
imis Taobaze, rom saqarTveloSi
mokle periodSi uproblemod Seicvleba
dadebiTisken politikuri,
ekonomikuri an saeklesio
situacia. piriqiT, minimum, 20 weli
(saukeTeso variantSi) mainc
dagvWirdeba progresis misaRwevad
da rac ufro male gaviazrebT
amas, miT ukeTesi, Tu arada, kidev
didxans mogviwevs „uaxloes momavalSi
mesianuri molodinisgan
imedgacrueba”. optimizmi kargi
raRacaa, magram rodesac igi realobas
moklebulia, kraxisTvisaa
ganwiruli, rac, rogorc qristefore
mgalobliSvili ityoda,
aucileblad gamoiwvevs Soks. gamosavali?
bevri rom ar gavagZrelo,
yvelam Cven-Cvens profesiaSi unda
gavakeToT sakuTari SesaZleblobebis
maqsimumi da ar gvqondes
imis iluzia, rom am Cveni Tavganwirvis
gamo vinme dagvafasebs... ai,
lanZRva-gineba ki icocxle, blomad
gveqneba.
***
sul es iyo, rac mindoda meTqva
saqarTvelos mosaxleobis
nafiqralis Sedegebze bolo kvlevebis
mixedviT, romelsac isedac
TavlaTliv xedavs yvela is,
vinc fiqrobs sakuTari „bablis”
miRma, xolo vinc ar fiqrobs, imas
arc araferi enaRvleba. vinc ar
fiqrobs, is axla upirates mdgomareobaSia
Tundac droebiT, radgan
sakuTari komfortis uzrunvelsayofad
cdilobs gaanadguros
is, vinc fiqrobs.
N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
23
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
`qarTuli ocneba~ samgle
albaT, mxolod saqarTveloSi
Sorena marsagiSvili
SeiZleba, prezidentma saxalxo dam-
599 92 16 22
cvels sTxovos daxmareba, _ mabul-
ingebeno. im prezidentma, romlis
gancxadebebi agvistos omTan dakavSirebiT qarTveli samxedroe-
bis winaaRmdeg micemuli Cvenebebia, romelsac ruseTi xSirad afrialebs.
bulingis msxverpli salome zurabiSvili mis mier ga-
keTebuli araadekvaturi gancxadebebis gamo gaxda. mas miaCnia,
rom is brwyinvale qarTuliT saubrobs da medias misi ena ar esmis.
zurabiSvilis godeba bulingTan dakavSirebiT sasacilod eCveneba
leiboristuli partiis wevr beJan naTelaSvils.
ra problemebs uqmnis qvey-
anas salome zurabiSvili? ra
arCevanis winaSe dadgeba ivaniSvili?
ratom ar adardebs am-
erikisa da evropis aRiarebul
„Salikos fanCaturs” kremlis
agentebis azri? razea wamsvleli
„qarTuli ocneba”? ris-
Tvis aris mzad opozicia? _ am
Temebis Sesaxeb „qronika+~-s
beJan naTelaSvili esaubreba:
_ batono beJan, prezidentis
administraciam saxalxo dam-
cvels mimarTa, rame iRoneT,
saqarTvelos prezidents abu-
lingebeno. gagigiaT, rom sadme
saxalxo damcveli prezidents
icavdes? an raSi gamoixateba
prezidentis
dabulingeba?
prezidentebs nebismier qveya-
naSi akritikeben, magram Svela
jer aravis uTxovia.
_ prezidenti aris konstituciis
garanti da is valdebulia,
daicvas yvela, vinc SeiZleba,
bulingis msxverpli gaxdes.
marto saxalxo damcvelisTvis
gagzavnili mimarTvidanac Cans,
Tu ra donis gaugebrobaSia es
qali moxvedrili. salome zurabiSvils
gaazrebulic ki ar
aqvs, Tu ras niSnavs iyo qveynis
prezidenti. is am Tanamdebobaze
im procesis Sedegad dasves,
romelsac arCevnebis garda yvelaferi
erqva. salome zurabiSvili
gaxlavT qveynis sircxvili.
amasTan, is aris mosiarule
naRmi, romelic nebismier
wams SeiZleba afeTqdes. kacma
ar icis, sad ras daabrexvebs.
Tavisi ugunuri gancxadebebiT
azerbaijanTan ukve Segviqmna
problemebi. ra unda vilaparako
im qalze, romelic 19 wlis
biWis mkvlelobaze ityvis, _
jgufuri Cxubi vaJkacoba araa,
erTi erTze rom eCxubaT, kidev
hoo. arada, samagaliTod unda
gmobdes Zaladobas. garda imisa,
rom prezidentia, is aris
Svilebis deda.
_ misgan gagikvirdaT es gancxadeba?
es xom is qalia, romelic
lobios saWmelad wavi-
da Ramis 11 saaTze maSin, roca
24
599 92 16 22 beJan naTelaSvili:
axalgazrdebi parlamentis win
yinvaSi aqcias marTavdnen? es
is qalia, romelic ambobs, rom,
ratomRac, xalxze maRla unda
idges.
_ ar gamkvirvebia. Tavxedi da
utifari adamianisgan yvelaferia
mosalodneli. vinmem ar
misayveduros, qalze ras ambobo.
ra SuaSia qali, Tanac sul
genderul Tanasworobazea saubari.
kidev gavimeoreb: es aris
Tavxedi da utifari qali, romelic
qveynisa da misi nebismieri
moqalaqisTvis safrTxis
Semcvelia. misi nebismieri gancxadeba
SeiZleba, did problemad
gadaiqces.
_ misi gancxadebebi safrTx-
is Semcveli namdvilad aris.
mis mier dawerili wignis
safuZvelze SesaZloa, qarTvel
samxedroebs osebis genoci-
dis mowyobaSi dasdon brali.
_ es wigni mas SemTxveviT ar
dauweria. arc agvistos omTan
dakavSirebiT aqvs gakeTebuli
is ugunuri gancxadebebi SemTxveviT.
mogexsenebaT, rom mTeli
Cveni xelisufleba „efesbes”
filialia, romelic piradad
putins eqvemdebareba. am filialis
saboloo mozania saqarTvelos
dabruneba ruseTis wiaR-
Si. sxvanairad am xelisuflebis
qmedebebs ver avxsni. osebi
da okupantebi ukve wlebia,
Cvens moqalaqeebs saqarTvelos
kontrolirebadi teritoriidan
itaceben. amasTan dakav-
SirebiT „qarTuli ocnebisgan”
erTi xeiriani protestic ki ar
mogvismenia. isev Cveni dasavleli
partniorebi aprotesteben.
eseni ki rusianoba-osianobas
gagebiT ekidebian.
_ gia volski gatacebebze
aseT rames ambobs, _ okupacia
sxva ki araferia: zogs gaita-
ceben, zogs daWriano.
_ volski is pirovnebaa,
romelic salome zurabiSvils
arafriT Camouvardeba, masac
sakmaod maRali Tanamdeboba
ukavia da parlamentis vicespikeri
gaxalvT. es personac
`amaze Zalian mecineba. amaT isic ki ar ician,
rom swored fanCaturebSi keTdeba didi
saqmeebi. saqarTveloSi odiTgan ase iyo.
gveZaxon "Salikos fanCaturi" da iyvnen. iq
jdomas marTlac araferi sjobs, iseTi kargi
ezoa. "ocnebis" Sefasebebi ar mainteresebs.
radgan am fanCaturs dasavleTi uwevs
angariSs. kremli Tu ar gvaRiarebs, amaze
piriqiT, madlobas vityviT~
Zalian samarcxvino gancxadebebs
akeTebs. is kidev ra saSineli
hyavT „ocnebaSi”, Tmakulula
biWi rom aris. mas me kobaxisTavianiZe
Sevarqvi. xisTaviani
rom ar iyos, iseT rameebs ar
ityoda, rasac eg ambobs. dRes
saqarTvelo denTis kasrze zis.
es im xalxis damsaxurebaa, romelic
marTavs qveyanas. saxelmwifo
CamoSales, biujeti gamoxres,
ekonomika minusebSi gadaiyvanes.
_ ekonomikis minusebSi gada-
yvanas koronapandemiiT xsnian.
_ korona sad iyo, amaT
ekonomika minusebSi rom gadaiyvanes.
Tan axla xom gadaiara
am koronam da rame moimoqme-
`salome
zurabiSvili
mosiarule
naRmia~
don. mTelma msofliom moxsna
SezRudvebi. mxolod saqarTvelo
iyo, romelmac sazogadoebrivi
transportiT gadaadgileba
akrZala. araerTxel miTqvams
da gavimeoreb, rom korona
amaT tuziviT daeca da ra
gasakviria, rom sakuTar Tavze
moirgebndnen. Cveni informaciiT,
cota xanSi isev apireben koronas
axali talRis agorebas
da am Temis saTavisod gamoyenebas.
_ ras niSnavs koronas axali
talRis agoreba?
_ rogorc ki dasavleTidan
kritikuli werili mova, meore
dResve vigebT, rom koronainficirebulTa
ricxvi izrdeba.
`prezidenti aris konstituciis garanti da is
valdebulia, daicvas yvela, vinc SeiZleba,
bulingis msxverpli gaxdes. marto saxalxo
damcvelisTvis gagzavnili mimarTvidanac Cans, Tu
ra donis gaugebrobaSia es qali moxvedrili.
salome zurabiSvils gaazrebulic ki ar aqvs, Tu
ras niSnavs iyo qveynis prezidenti. is am
Tanamdebobaze im procesis Sedegad dasves,
romelsac arCevnebis garda yvelaferi erqva~
aseTi triuki ramdenjerme Caatares
_ es aris imis winapiroba,
rom amaT saarCevnod SeiZleba
Zalian didi SezRudvebi daaweson
da gareTac ki ar gamogviSvan.
_ xalxi Tu gadairia, aranai-
ri SezRudva aRar gaaCerebs
mas.
_ xalxs marTla saSineleba
gamoatares da amas meored veRar
gadaitanen. mTeli sami Tve
saxlSi hyavdaT mosaxleoba gamoketili.
maTi mowodeba aseTi
iyo: darCiT saxlSi da mokvdiT
SimSiliT! aseTi ram rom aRar
ganmeordes, xelisuflebaSi
„qarTuli ocnebis” umravlesobiT
mosvla aRar unda davuSvaT.
umravlesobiT isedac ver
movlen, aseT Sedegs veRar dadeben,
sul rom yiraze gaiaron.
_ ratom ggoniaT, rom aseT
Sedegs ver dadeben?
_ amas xalxi aRar moiTmens.
2018 wlis saprezidento arCevnebze
rac gaakeTes, am arCevnebze
amis naxevaric rom ikadron,
Tavze daemxobaT yvelaferi.
gayalbebul arCevnebs aravin
aRar cnobs. aRsaniSnavia,
rom swored salome zurabiSvilis
arCevnebis Semdeg gaocda
amerika da wamovida iqidan werili
werilze, ustari ustarze
da a. S. vaSingtoni Riad mianiSnebs,
rom is aRar gaatarebs
iseT utifrobas, rac „qarTulma
ocnebam” 2018 wels ikadra.
_ erTia, ras ambobs amerika
da meorea, ras gegmavs xelisufleba.
Tqveni azriT, dasavleTidan
mosuli gafrTxilebebis
Semdeg ikadrebs xelisufleba
utifrobas am arCe-
vnebze?
_ ras ar ikadrebs? ramdenime
Tvis win pirdapir molaparakebebis
magididan agvacales
gigi ugulava. manamde sul tyuilad
daiWires irakli oqruaSvili.
ris gamoc is daiWires, nebismieri
Cvengani unda aRmoCeniliyo
gisosebs miRma. Cven er-
Tad vaprotestebdiT gavrilovis
TbilisSi Camosvlas. poli-
24 N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
goWiviT aris atexili~
`ruseTi gadamwyvet momentSi ukan ixevs xolme. aslan abaSiZis SemTxvevaSic
ase moxda. marTalia, Tavidan aafeTqes xidebi Coloqze, magram Zalian male
damokidebuleba Secvales. metic: moskovidan kaci afrines, romelmac abaSiZe
saqarTvelodan waiyvana~
tpatimrebi Zlivs gamovaSvebineT
da axla kidev erTxel upireben
daWeras. giorgi ruruas
gamoSvebazec uars amboben. arada,
8 martis SeTanxmebiT isic
unda gamosuliyo sapatimrodan.
samgle goWiviT aris „ocneba”
atexili da warmodgena ar
maqvs, risi an visi imedi aqvs?
kaciSvili magaT aRar uWers
mxars.
_ viRacis imedi rom ar
hqondeT, albaT, ase ar iTav-
xedebdnen. meocnebeebi Zalian
Tavdajerebulebi Canan.
_ ar mgonia, rom Tavdajerebulebi
arian, es mdgomareoba
ufro agonias hgavs. maTi erTaderTi
imedi axla ruseTia. 2004
wels aslan abaSiZec rusebis
imediT iyo. fiqrobda, rusuli
tankebi momexmarebian da aWaris
regions jibeSi davitovebo. bi-
Zinac albaT fiqrobs, rom mas
rusuli tankebi miexmareba. arada,
amis imedi sul tyuilad
aqvs.
_ ratom?
_ ruseTi gadamwyvet momentSi
ukan ixevs xolme. aslan
abaSiZis SemTxvevaSic ase moxda.
marTalia, Tavidan aafeTqes
xidebi Coloqze, magram Zalian
male damokidebuleba Secvales.
metic: moskovidan kaci afrines,
romelmac abaSiZe saqarTvelodan
waiyvana.
_ abaSiZe aWaris mmarTveli
iyo, ivaniSvili ki saqarTvelos
marTavs. marTalia, araoficialurad,
magram mainc marTavs.
rusebi mis dasacavad uf-
ro gamoideben Tavs.
_ ara mgonia, moskovma erTi
rigiTi oligarqis gamo dasavleTTan
kidev ufro gaifuWos
saqme. maTi ekonomika isedac
CamoSlilia da kidev sanqciebi
undaT? ruseTi, rogorc saxelmwifo,
aRar arsebobs, ruseTs
dRes putinis piradi bandebi
marTaven. aseTi marTvis
sistema aqac nel-nela gadmodis
_ ivaniSvili cdilobs, rom
Cveni qveyana misma piradma bandebma
marTon. rogorc TavSi
ukve giTxariT, undaT, rom
saqarTvelo ruseTis guberniad
aqcion. amas verc ruseTi da
verc biZina ver eRirsebian.
ivaniSvili aucileblad wava
daTmobaze. magas arc sakonstitucio
cvlilebebis miReba undoda,
erTxel Caagdebina kidevac
„meamboxe” maJoritarebs,
magram dasavleTis zewoliT
iZulebuli gaxda, daTmobaze
wasuliyo. evropisa da amerikis
daxmarebiT proporciulTan miaxloebuli
arCevnebi miviReT.
kargi iqneboda, srulad proporciuli
wesi migveRo, magram
es ar gamovida. maJoritarebTan
ganSoreba yvela xelisufals
uWirda saqarTveloSi. es maxinji
sistema arc SevardnaZem gaauqma
da arc _ saakaSvilma.
Tavidan marto Cven, leiboristebi
vambobdiT, rom es iyo
maxinji sistema da mis gauqmebas
viTxovdiT. am sakiTxSi opoziciaSi
mxardamWerebi maSin ar
gvyavda. droTa ganmavlobaSi
mTeli politikuri speqtri
mivida im daskvnamde, rom es
maxinji sistema unda gauqmebuliyo.
araa SemTxveviTi, rom
amaze swored opoziciam atexa
xmauri leiboristebis ofisSi.
gaimarTa araerTi molaparakeba
da didi gansxvavebulobis
miuxedavad, opoziciuri erToba
Sedga. am erTobas ukve seriozulad
Sexeda dasavleTma.
_ samagierod, „qarTuli ocneba”
aRgiqvamT araseriozulad.
opoziciis erTobas „Sa-
likos fanCaturs” eZaxian,
radgan Sexvedrebi xom Tqveni
partiis ezoSi imarTeba.
_ amaze Zalian mecineba. amaT
isic ki ar ician, rom swored
fanCaturebSi keTdeba didi
saqmeebi. saqarTveloSi odiT-
`volski is pirovnebaa, romelic salome
zurabiSvils arafriT Camouvardeba, masac
sakmaod maRali Tanamdeboba ukavia da
parlamentis vice-spikeri gaxalvT. es personac
Zalian samarcxvino gancxadebebs akeTebs. is
kidev ra saSineli hyavT `ocnebaSi~, Tmakulula
biWi rom aris. mas me kobaxisTavianiZe
Sevarqvi. xisTaviani rom ar iyos, iseT rameebs
ar ityoda, rasac eg ambobs~
gan ase iyo. gveZaxon „Salikos
fanCaturi” da iyvnen. iq jdomas
marTlac araferi sjobs,
iseTi kargi ezoa. „ocnebis” Sefasebebi
ar mainteresebs. radgan
am fanCaturs dasavleTi
uwevs angariSs. kremli Tu ar
gvaRiarebs, amaze piriqiT, madlobas
vityviT. is, rom dRes
dasavleTi xelisuflebis mimarT
aseTi kritikulia, Cveni
lideris mravalwliani muSaobis
Sedegia. is wlobiT dadioda
amerikaSi, xvdeboda senatorebsa
da kongresmenebs. sxva
opozicionerebic dadiodnen,
magram batoni Salva yvelaze
aqtiuri iyo. man Zalian bevri
samuSao gawia da dRes vaSingtonma
ukve icis, Tu ras warmoadgenen
„qarTuli ocneba” da misi
lideri. amitomac laparakoben
sanqciebze. am sanqciebis Si-
SiT SeiZleba arCevnebis gayalbebaze
uari Tqvan, magram romc
gaayalbon, didad arc am SemTxvevaSi
Seicvleba suraTi. „qar-
Tuli ocneba” yvelaze utifari
arCevnebiTac ki veRar gaiformebs
umravlesobas parlament-
Si. Tan utifrobas arc dasavleTi
apatiebs da arc _ qarTveli
xalxi.
_ Cvenma xalxma araerT xe-
lisuflebas apatia utifroba
da raRa axla gadaireva sa-
zogadoeba?
_ axla sxvanairia suraTi.
yvela xvdeba, rom ase Tu gagr-
Zelda, saxelmwifo Tavze dagveSleba.
roca Cveni xalxi garedan
mxardaWeras grZnobs, gamarjvebis
imedi aqvs da aRarafers
patiobs xelisuflebas.
„qarTul ocnebas” isedac bevri
apatia sazogadoebam.
_ aseTi mxardaWera jer
opozicias ar hqonia da viTom
gamoiyenebT rameSi? ki ambobT,
rom utifrobas „ocnebas” ar-
avin apatiebso, magram xalxi
mainc pesimisturad aris ganw-
yobili.
_ dasavleTi opozicias ar
uWers mxars, dasavleTs saqar-
Tvelos demokratiuli ganvi-
Tareba unda. demokratiul ganviTarebas
irCevs opoziciac.
evropisa da amerikis mxardaWeris
Sedegs Semodgomaze vixilavT.
nu gaviwydebaT, rom ivaniSvili
ekonomikuri sanqciebis
dawesebis oficialuri kandidatia.
sanqcirebis kandidatebi
ki viciT, rogorc amTavreben.
win seriozuli brZola
gvelis da Secdomis daSvebis
ufleba ar gvaqvs. xelisuflebas
yvela gza unda gadavuketoT,
raTa arCevnebi veRar gaayalbos.
amaSi Zalian gvexmareba
dasavleTi, gansakuTrebiT
aSS aqtiurobs. aTasi madloba
gvaqvs vaSingtonisTvis saTqmeli.
seriozulad SeeSleba xeli
muSaobaSi Saliko ramiSvilebis,
kokino yandiaSvilebisa da laSa
nacvliSvilebis trolebs, rac
Zalian daartyams „qarTul ocnebas”.
arc is mgonia SemTxveviTi
ambavi, rom amerikis elCi xeli-
suflebis yvela Stos warmomadgenlebs
xvdeba. es qalbatoni
Zalian did samuSaos asrulebs.
misi aqtiurobac marwmunebs,
rom amerikis saxiT Zalian didi
megobari gvyavs. isini rom ara,
verc konstituciaSi SevitandiT
cvlilebebs. opoziciis
mondomeba da xalxis aqtiuroba
Sedegs ar gamoiRebda. dasavleTis
Carevis Semdeg maJoritarebis
raodenoba, faqtobrivad,
ganaxevrda.
_ 30 maJoritaris arCeva
mouwevs mosaxleobas. Tqveni
azriT, 30 maJoritaridan xe-
lisufleba ramdenis gayvanas
moaxerxebs?
_ es opoziciis koordinebul
muSaobaze iqneba damokidebuli.
erTmaneTs unda davudgeT
gverdiT, sxvanairad ver
gavimarjvebT.
_ Tqveni lideri naZaladev-
Si apirebs maJoritarobas.
Zalian mZime raioni Sexvda da
bolo kvlevac ar iZleva didi
imedis safuZvels.
_ uimedod sulac ar var ganwyobili.
es kvleva CemTvis arafers
niSnavs. gamoricxulia,
rom Salvas 20% hqondes da
„ocnebis” kandidats _ 40-ze
meti. Tan im droisTvis, roca
kvleva Catarda, mmarTvel partias
Tavisi kandidati jer dasaxelebuli
ar hyavda. gamokiTxvebi
pirobiTia. maJoritareb-
Tan dakavSirebiT opozicia maqsimalurad
iTanamSromlebs. Zalian
kargia, rom maJoritarobis
kandidats 50%-iani barieris
gadalaxva mouwevs.
_ kargi ratom aris?
_ imitom, rom mogeba iseTi
martivi aRar iqneba, rogorc
aqamde iyo. erTad Tu viqnebiT,
maJoritarebis umetesobas opozicia
gaiyvans. mjera, rom am
mimarTulebiTac zurgze daideba
xelisufleba. rac Seexeba
proporciul mimarTulebas,
„qarTuli ocnebis” maqsimumi
35% iqneba. ivaniSvili amaze
mets ver miiRebs, rac ar unda
iyidos da daaSinos xalxi. mmarTveli
partiis warmomadgenlebi
acxadeben, rom 55% aqvT.
maT vurCev, rom procentebTan
cota frTxilad iyvnen. eg zedmeti
procentebi iqneba, maT
cxviris Zvals rom Caumsxvrevs.
_ xmebis dacvas Tu SeZlebs
opozicia?
_ xmebs aucileblad davicavT.
axla 2016 weli aRar aris,
rodesac arc erTi saarCevno
ubani ar gaxsnes. ubansac gaxsnian
da Cemodnebsac Caalageben.
ivaniSvils, rogorc vici, ukve
Calagebuli aqvs Cemodnebi. mas
Zalian kargad moexseneba, Tu
ras niSnavs amerikuli sanqciebi.
momaval arCevnebs imedianad
vuyureb. Tqvens mkiTxvels Tamamad
SemiZlia vuTxra, rom bi-
Zinas, anu vaWrebis diqtatura
saqarTveloSi dasrulebulia.
es Semodgomaze oficialurad
gaformdeba.
N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
25
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
`opoziciam gacilebiT agresiuli
dasavleTis kategoriuli moTx-
Sorena marsagiSvili
ovnis miuxedavad, „qarTuli ocne-
599 92 16 22
ba” uars ambobs 8 marts miRweuli
SeTanxmebis sabolood Sesruleba-
ze _ mmarTveli partia giorgi ruruas cixidan ar uSvebs. araa
gamoricxuli, male politpatimrebis raodenoba isev gaizar-
dos. opoziciaSi fiqroben, rom ivaniSvili kidev erTxel apirebs
irakli oqruaSvilis dapatimrebas. amasTan dakavSirebiT opozi-
ciam sagangebod gaavrcela erToblivi gancxadeba.
ratom surs xelisuflebas
oqruaSvilis gaSaveba? gai-
ziareben Tu ara mis beds sxva
opozicioneri liderebi? ras
upirispirebs opozicia xelisu-
flebis trol-botebs? Caereva
Tu ara ruseTi Semodgomaze
dagegmil arCevnebSi? _ am Teme-
bis Sesaxeb „qronika+~-s oTar
kvirikaSvili esaubreba:
_ oTar, 22 ivliss irakli
oqruaSvilis sasamarTlo pro-
cesia CaniSnuli. opozicia ar
gamoricxavs, rom „gamarjvebu-
li saqarTvelos” lideri kidev
erTxel Seabrunon cixeSi Tqven
ras elodebiT? gariskavs xelisufleba
aseTi nabijis gada-
dgmas?
_ am xelisuflebas imis Tavi
aRar aqvs, rom irakli kidev er-
Txel gamoketos cixeSi. es proceduruladac
sakmaod rTuli
iqneba. ramdenime aseuli
policielia dasakiTxi. yoveld-
Riuradac rom CaniSnon sasamarTlo
procesebi, arCevnebamde
am mowmeebis dakiTxvas srulad
ver moaxerxeben. raki ver daiWeren,
xelisuflebas gadawyvetili
aqvs, am sasamarTloTi
iraklis winaaRmdeg morigi Savi
piari aagoros. isev Zvel raRacebs
gaixseneben, tv „imedze”
daatrialeben videorgolebs,
Tu rogori jalaTi iyo irakli,
rogor xocavda xalxs. iqneba
kivili, _ sisxliani oqruaSvilio!
Cemi azriT, am kampaniis nawilia
22 ivliss CaniSnuli sasamarTloc.
es sasamarTlo ewinaaRmdegeba
8 martis SeTanxmebas.
SeTanxmeba isedac bolomde
araa Sesrulebuli, giorgi rurua
kvlav cixeSi rCeba da am
dros iraklis saqmes Tavidan
iwyeben. gasagebia, risTvisac undaT
es yvelaferi, magram msgavsi
meTodebi aRar muSaobs. etyoba,
saarCevno kampaniis dasagegmad
isev cnobili da agresiuli
moSe hyavT Camoyvanili. savaraudod,
misi rCeviT daasisxliana
kaxa kalaZem ramdenime televiziis
logo.
_ mogvianebiT, es sisxli
Tbilisis merma moaSala am lo-
goebs.
_ meore simarTlis muStze
sisxli aRar Canda. aSkaraa, rom
isev warsulis gaxsenebiT da
sisxliani cxra wlis ZaxiliT
apireben saarCevno kampaniis warmarTvas.
sainteresoa bolos gamoqveynebuli
kvlevebic: iq iraklis
1% dauweres da partias _
araferi. arada, saarCevno kampania
arc gvaqvs dawyebuli. xelisufleba
am kvlevebs ar endoba.
isini TavianT kvlevebs atareben,
romlis mixedviTac oqruaSvils
26
599 92 16 22
oTar kvirikaSvili:
`xelisuflebis
Sesacvlelad
mosaxleobas bevri
mizezi daugrovda~
sakmaod maRali reitingi aqvs. amitomac
miiCnevs „ocneba” mas
erT-erT mTavar oponentad. ase
rom ar yofiliyo, mis winaaRmdeg
ase gulmodgined ar aagorebdnen
Sav piars. „qarTuli ocneba”
im partiebsa da liderebze axorcielebs
wertilovan dartymebs,
sadac safrTxes xedavs. arian
opozicionerebi, romlebsac
warsulSi iraklize bevrad meti
Secdoma dauSviaT, saSinelebebi
gaukeTebiaT, magram xelisufleba
maTze xmas ar iRebs da arc Sav
piars ugorebs.
_ „qarTuli ocneba” saeWvod
aris gaCumebuli vano merabiSvilze.
es dumili risi maniSnebelia,
_ masze saubars ver bedaven,
Tu seriozul konkuren-
tad ar aRiqvamen?
_ „ocneba” vano merabiSvils
imitom ar axsenebs, rom mTavar
konkurentad oqruaSvils miiCnevs.
mas aTas sibinZures daabraleben
da sisxlian jalaTad gamoacxadeben.
_ im fonze, roca axalgazrdebs
xelisuflebasTan daax-
loebuli pirebi xocaven, opo-
ziciis liderebisTvis sisxli-
anis Zaxili ramdenad normal-
uria? sul raRac erTi Tvis win
mokles 19 wlis giorgi SaqaraS-
vili.
_ opoziciis liderebis sisxlianebad
warmoCena imisTvisac
sWirdebaT, rom es saSinelebebi
gadafaron. tv „imedis” funqcia
xom aseTi ambebis gadafarvaa.
yovel saRamos eTerSi svamen
1500-larian eqspertebs, isinic
laparakoben da laparkoben sxvis
danaSaulebebze. Zalian kargad
xvdeba xelisufleba, rom
morRveulebi arian da nebismierma
bzarma SeiZleba CamoSalos.
cdiloben, rogorme amomrCeveli
SeinarCunon. es xalxi bolos
mainc dainaxavs, ras warmoadgens
„ocneba” da mas zurgs Seaqcevs.
rac imas ar niSnavs, rom isini
„nacionalur moZraobas” miscemen
xmas. maT rame Sualeduri
partia da lideri unda naxon.
erT-erTi aseTi lideria oqruaSvili.
amitom unda „ocnebas”,
rom irakli „nacional” jala-
TebTan gaagivos.
_ raRac periodi irakli oq-
ruaSvili „nacionaluri moZr-
aobis” wevri da maTi mTavrobis
erT-erTi yvelaze gavleniani
figura iyo.
_ gasagebia, magram irakli iqidan
2006 wels wamovida. mis kiserze
arc erTi seriozuli dana-
Sauli da darbeva ar aris. bolo
periodSi sami didi darbeva iyo:
2007 wlis 7 noemberi, 2011 wlis
26 maisi da 2019 wlis 20 ivnisi.
samive am darbevis dros Cveni
partiis lideri opoziciaSi gaxldaT.
am dros Zalian bevri Sua
rusTavelze qarTveli xalxis
sisxls Rvrida. amis miuxedavad,
„qarTuli ocneba” jiutad cdilobs,
yvela es sisxli iraklis
ahkidos. arada, ramdeni sisxliani
hyavT sakuTar rigebSi.
sxva yvelafers rom Tavi davaneboT,
erTi Tvis win mokles 19
wlis giorgi SaqaraSvili. es mkvleloba
rom am xelisuflebis
mier waqezebulma pirebma Caidines,
amas bevri mtkiceba ar unda.
waxalisebulia kriminali da
Zaladoba. dRe ise ar gaivlis,
sadme adamiani ar moklan an ar
daWran. „qarTulma ocnebam”
kriminalebi pirdapir miuSva da
isinic Tavisuflad moqmedeben.
TiTqos aq arsebuli kriminalebi
ar iyo sakmarisi, sxva qveynebidanac
Camoiyvanes Cveneburi
Zveli biWebi. arCevnebze maTi
daxmareba sWirdebaT da arafer-
Si uSlian xels. sul ar ainteresebT,
ras daatrialeben es kriminalebi.
karga xania, seriozuli
danaSaulis gareSe aRar Cauvlia
dRes.
_ Tqven patara xarT da Sei-
Zleba, ar gaxsovT, magram daax-
loebiT aseTi situacia iyo 2003
welsac. maSinac TiTqos viRacas
miSvebuli hyavda kriminalebi.
_ rogor ar maxsovs 2003 weli.
rogorc maSin, dResac policia
policias aRar hgavs. saxelmwifo
institutebi CamoSlilia.
_ maSin es yvelaferi xelisu-
flebis cvlilebiT dasrulda.
_ axlac ase iqneba. xelisufleba
mxolod imitom ar Seicvleba,
rom kriminali gaizarda.
xelisuflebis Sesacvlelad
Zalian bevri mizezi daugrovda
mosaxleobas. xelisuflebis
Secvlas dasavleTic uWers mxars.
es xelisufleba rom maT-
Tvis misaRebi yofiliyo, amerika
daxmarebas ar Segvimcirebda.
amis msgavsi 2003 wels moxda da
xelisuflebac Seicvala. saakaS-
`ocneba~ vano merabiSvils imitom ar axsenebs,
rom mTavar konkurentad oqruaSvils miiCnevs.
mas aTas sibinZures daabraleben da sisxlian
jalaTad gamoacxadeben~
vilis reJimi sisxliani iyo, magram
amerikas arc mwvave werilebi
mouweria da arc sanqciebze
dauwyia saubari. „qarTuli ocnebis”
xelisuflebasac TiTqmis
Svidi wlis manZilze ar akritikebdnen.
„nacionalebis” dros
Tavs imitom ikavebdnen, rom xedavdnen,
am qveyanaSi saxelmwifo
institutebi muSaobda. axla saxelmwifo
institutebi CamoSlilia,
korufciaSi lpeba mTeli
xelisufleba, kriminali bolomde
miSvebulia. saxelmwifo aRar
arsebobs. rac darCa, imas 90-iani
wlebis rusuli meTodebiT mar-
Taven. es dasavleTisTvis miuRebelia.
Cveni partniorebi acnobiereben,
rom am viTarebis Secvla
arCevnebiT SeiZleba. amitomac
aniWeben 2020-is arCevnebs
amxela mniSvnelobas. es arCevnebi
mcirediTac rom gayalbdes,
dasavleTi Sedegebs ar aRiarebs.
es gafrTxileba „ocnebas” ar
esmis da saqme ise midis, rom
arCevnebi gayalbdeba. am proces-
Si CarTes kriminalebi, sportsmenebi...
etyoba, ivaniSvili Worvilis
iqiT ver ixedeba, winaaRmdeg
SemTxvevaSi ecodineboda,
Tu ras niSnavs, roca amerika sanqciebs
giwesebs. arc is icis, ra
xdeba globalur politikaSi.
_ Tavad SeiZleba, es yvelaf-
eri ar icis, magram mrCevlebis
armia risTvis hyavs? goga xaindrava,
albaT, eubneba midi, miaweqi,
amerika verafers dagak-
lebso.
_ xaindrava da gia abaSiZe amas
namdvilad urCeven. maTi rCevebiT
rom dadis, magitomac aqvs
ase „saxarbielod” saqme.
_ saxarbielod saqme arc
Tqvens partiaSia. „gamarjvebuli
saqarTvelo” ramdenime li-
derma datova.
_ es xalxi axla ar wasula,
maT partia „gamarjvebuli saqar-
Tvelo” maSin datoves, rogorc
ki oqruaSvili daiWires. yvelaze
gvian kote kemularia wavida. man
partia dekemberSi datova.
_ ratom wavidnen es adamiane-
bi partiidan?
_ lideri daiWires da maTac
perspeqtiva veRar dainaxes. etyoba,
wvaleba da brZola ar undodaT.
_ roca partiidan adamianebi
midian, es amomrCevelze mo-
qmedebs. Tqvens partiaze es ar
iqoniebs gavlenas?
_ ar mgonia. „gamarjvebul
saqarTvelos” imitom ar hqonia
26 N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
saarCevno kampania unda awarmoos~
reitingi, rom gubaz sanikiZe iyo
aq. ZiriTadi reitingi iraklis
gamo gvqonda. irakli axla Tavisufalia.
male daviwyebT saarCevno
kampanias da Tavadac darwmundebiT,
rom bevri araferi
dagvklebia.
_ es imazec iqneba damokide-
buli, Tu rogor imuSaveben
trolebi da botebi. maT bevri
rame SeuZliaT. nebismieri
liderisa da partiis gaSaveba
xelewifebaT.
_ bevri rame SeuZliaT, magram
ara _ yvelaferi. opoziciam ise
unda imoqmedos, rom am binZur
trolebs rac SeiZleba naklebi
salaparako mivceT. feisbuqis
administracia reklamebTan dakavSirebiT
avtorizaciis moTxovnas
apirebs. ase rom, yvela
gverdidan veRar daareklameben
maTTvis sasurvel ambebs.
_ es kargia, magram amiT
trolebisa da botebis parpaSi
ver ailagmeba.
_ erTmaneTTan dakavSirebuli
gverdebi ailagmeba, magram trolebs
dReSi 100 da 1000 axali
gverdis Seqmna SeuZliaT. nawvimarze
sokoebviT amodian xolme.
_ amasTan brZolas rogor ap-
irebs opozicia? gvinda Tu ara,
es trolebi da botebi sazoga-
doebaze mainc axdenen gavlenas.
_ gavlenas rogor ar axdenen.
Cven teqnologiebis epoqaSi vcxovrobT
da opoziciamac sxvadasxva
meTodi unda gamoiyenos
maTTan sabrZolvelad. mxolod
televiziiT laparaki arasakmarisia.
yvelafrisTvis mzad unda
viyoT. „qarTul ocnebas” bevri
resursi aqvs opoziciasTan sabrZolvelad:
fuli, Sss, administraciuli
resursi, susi _ yvela
opoziciis winaaRmdeg muSaobs.
Cven dasangrevad iyeneben
trolebsa da sportsmenebs. am
sistemasTan dapirispireba igivea,
rom ringze avtomatian kac-
Tan SiSveli xelebiT gaxvide sabrZolvelad.
ZaliT amaT rogor
unda vajoboT, magram gonierebas
Tu gamoviCenT, vajobebT.
Zalian didi Zalisxmeva dagvWirdeba,
rom saarCevno kampania bolomde
mSvidobianad miiyvano da
amaT ankesze ar wamoego. amasTan,
Sedegis dadebazec imuSavo.
_ amis gakeTeba Zneli iqneba.
gansakuTrebiT simSvidis Senar-
Cuneba gaWirdeba, magram jer-
jerobiT opozicias kargad aqvs
morgebuli konstruqciulis
mantia. arada, xalxs radikal-
`am xelisuflebas imis Tavi aRar aqvs, rom irakli kidev erTxel gamoketos
cixeSi. es proceduruladac sakmaod rTuli iqneba. ramdenime aseuli
policielia dasakiTxi. yoveldRiuradac rom CaniSnon sasamarTlo
procesebi, arCevnebamde am mowmeebis dakiTxvas srulad ver moaxerxeben. raki
ver daiWeren, xelisuflebas gadawyvetili aqvs, am sasamarTloTi iraklis
winaaRmdeg morigi Savi piari aagoros~
uri opozicia ufro moswons.
SarSan aqciebze bevri xalxi uW-
erda mxars opozicias. rogorc
ki konstruqciulobaze gadax-
vediT, momxreebic dakargeT.
_ am SemTxvevaSi opoziciam
marTlac agresiuli politika
unda awarmoos. aseT momentSi
konstruqciuloba cota uadgiloa.
agresiuli politika da
xelisuflebasTan dapirispireba
amomrCevels ki Rlis, magram
dgeba wuTebi, roca simSvide
momgebiani aRar aris. saarCevno
kampaniis mimdinareobisas agresiuli
politikaa saWiroa. rTulia,
roca xelisufleba agresiulad
iqceva da Sen gaCumebuli
xar, aseT dros araadekvaturadac
ki gamoiyurebi. opoziciaSic
adamianebi varT, _ xan gavbrazdebiT,
xan davwynardebiT. arian
erT Targze moWrili opozi-
cionerebi, romlebic arasdros
uweven xmas da aT reitingic Sesabamisi
aqvT. Tu maT mibaZav,
reitingic analogiuri geqneba.
umjobesia, iaqtiuro da meti
sibraze gamoavlino. ase xalxis
TvalSi ufro adekvaturi gamoCndebi.
_ Cven zemoT arCevnebis mimarT
dasavleTis damokidebule-
baze visaubreT. maT undaT, rom
procesebi demokratiulad wa-
rimarTos. am arCevnebis mimarT
did yuradRebas gamoiCens ruseTic.
Caereva moskovi arCevneb-
Si? sadac amerikis arCevnebSi
ereva, arc aq unda gauWirdes.
_ ruseTi lamis yvela saxelmwifos
arCevnebSi ereva. axlaxan
didma britaneTma gaavrcela informacia,
rom moskovi maT ar-
CevnebSic ereoda. amirikaSi am
Carevaze ukve Riad saubroben.
`am SemTxvevaSi opoziciam marTlac agresiuli
politika unda awarmoos. aseT momentSi
konstruqciuloba cota uadgiloa. agresiuli
politika da xelisuflebasTan dapirispireba
amomrCevels ki Rlis, magram dgeba wuTebi,
roca simSvide momgebiani aRar aris.
saarCevno kampaniis mimdinareobisas agresiuli
politikaa saWiroa. rTulia, roca
xelisufleba agresiulad iqceva da Sen
gaCumebuli xar, aseT dros araadekvaturadac
ki gamoiyurebi. opoziciaSic adamianebi varT, -
xan gavbrazdebiT, xan davwynardebiT~
Cvens arCevnebSi yvelaze seriozulad
Caerevian. an Careva rad
undaT, faqtobrivad, sakuTari
warmomadgeneli hyavT xelisuflebis
saTaveSi. yvela sistema
rusuli meTodebiT imarTeba. institutebi
rom CamoiSala da
saxelisuflebo Stoebs Soris
balansi moirRva, esec rusuli
politikaa. kremli 2020-is arCevnebSi
aqtiurad Caereva, magram
Sedegi iqneba sapirispiro. ruse-
Ti veRar miiRebs imas, rac unda.
saqarTveloSi xSirad gvqonia
periodebi, roca Cvens qveyanasa
da xalxs akninebdnen, magram dgeboda
dro, roca koleqtiuri
goni amodioda wumpidan. axlac
ase moxdeba. xalxis goni mixvdeba,
rom amaTi TamaSis wesebs ar
unda daeqvemdebaros. ase er-
TianobiT SegviZlia gamarjveba.
amaze Zlieri mtrebic gvyolia,
magram bolomde migviyvania saqme
da gamarjvebac mogvipovebia.
vimeoreb, Zlieri mowinaaRmdegeebisTvis
mogvigia da aRzevebuli
ivaniSvili ra gaxda.
_ aRzevebuls axla 7 miliardi
aqvs da am fuliT bevri ra-
mis gakeTeba SeuZlia.
_ zogjer fuli verafers
wyvets. mere ra, rom 7 miliardi
aqvs? gaRletili arc saakaSvili
iyo. ufulobas arc SevardnaZe
uCioda... magram roca situacia
momwifda, xalxis nebas verc
erTi daudga win. xalxis nebis
winaaRmdeg verc ivaniSvili wava.
xalxs Zalian didi Zala aqvs. seriozuli
ambebi midis ruseTSi.
mTeli qveynis masStabiT didi
gamosvlebi daiwyo. iq Tu gamovida
xalxi, aq ratom ar gamova?
kidev erTxel vityvi: xalxis nebis
winaaRmdeg veravin wava da
xalxis gaCereba SeuZlebeli
iqneba.
_ koronapandemiis momizeze-
biT xelisuflebas sagangebo
mdgomareobis gamocxadeba Seu-
Zlia. aseT dros ki xalxi quCa-
Si veRar gamova.
_ koronapandemias axlac mSvenivrad
iyeneben saTavisod da ar-
Cevnebis winac ar ityvian uars, magram
rogorc ki zRvars gadavlen,
xalxi amazec mosTxovs pasuxs.
_ zRvargadasvlaSi ras
gulisxmobT?
_ koronapandemiis saTavisod
gamoyeneba rom TvalSi sacemi
gaxdeba. es xelisufleba balansis
dacvaSi namdvilad ar uqnia
RmerTs. maTi zraxvebi iolad
gaiSifreba. ase rom, mosaxleobas
ver moatyueben da Tu gabedaven,
koronac cudad SemoutrialdebaT
da is dividendebic, rac am
pandemiiT daiweres.
_ motyuebas xalxi iolad eg-
ueba. yvela xelisufleba gvaty-
uebda, „qarTuli ocneba” merve
welia, gvatyuebs, magram sazo-
gadoebisgan protesti ar aris.
_ Cveni xalxi tyuils egueba,
magram yvelafers aqvs sazRvari.
Seusrulebeli dapirebebiT dai-
Rala xalxi. meeWveba, „ocnebas”
kidev vinmem misces mesame Sansi.
amas aRarc amerika dauSvebs. aq
rom demokratia ganviTarebuliyo,
Cvenma strategiulma
partniorma miliardebi daxarja.
maT interesebSi ar Sedis, rom
saqarTvelo TurqmeneTs daemsgavsos.
„ocnebis” xelisufleba-
Si datoveba daaxloebiT iseTi
ambavia, rom mgels cxvari miugdo,
_ uyarauleo. „ocnebis” xelisuflebaSi
darCena niSnavs,
saqarTvelo ruseTs Caugdo xelSi.
amas dasavleTi ar dauSvebs.
_ samagierod, ruseTi Se-
ecdeba, rom yvelaferi ise iyos,
rogorc mas surs.
_ ruseTi ase iolad ar daTmobs
saqarTvelos. moskovi, rogorc
wesi, arCevnebis win aqtiurdeba
xolme. axlac igive suraTs
miviRebT. qarTveli xalxi da
dasavleli partniorebi aRar
dauSveben, rom es qveyana rusul
orbitas daubrundes. „ocnebac”
ar daTmobs iolad sakuTar poziciebs.
yvela resurss gamoiyenebs:
susi, Sss, Zveli biWebi, zonderebi,
sportsmenebi _ yvela opoziciis
winaaRmdeg dairazmeba.
_ es sportsmenebi imdens izamen,
rom male gareT veRar ga-
bedaven gamosvlas. xalxs Zalian
SeaZules Tavi.
_ marTalia. maT unda icodnen,
rom xelisufleba male Seicvleba.
ise nu moiqcevian, rom
kariera mTlianad daimaxinjon.
swored arSemdgar sportsmenebs
iyenebs xelisufleba Tavisi bin-
Zuri miznebisTvis. amdeni ivarjiSes,
Zala erCiT da undaT, rom
raRac kuTxiT Tavisi realizeba
moaxdinon. fuls aZleven da amitom
urtyamen opozicias, Torem
„qarTul ocnebaze” mze da mTvare
ki ar amosdiT. xval xelisufleba
rom Seicvleba, „ocnebis”
wevrebs mibegvaven didi siamovnebiT.
imedia, momavali xelisufleba
aseT meTodebs aRar gamoiyenebs.
rodemde unda vdioT
erTmaneTs gamoqvabulis adamianebiviT?
droa, normalur qveynad
CamovyalibdeT.
N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
27
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
ra safrTxes uqmnis saqarTvelos somxeT-
am Temaze arc Cveni politiko-
giorgi abaSiZe
sebi saubroben da arc _ media. arada,
Cvens mezoblad, anu saqarTvelos
sazRvridan 55 kilometrSi, SeiaraRebuli konfliqtis ker-
aa. saubaria somxeTisa da azerbaijanis dapirispirebaze. sxvaTa
Soris, es pirveli SemTxvevaa, roca mudmivad dapirispirebuli
ori mezobeli qveyana erTmaneTs mTian yarabaRSi ki ara, sxvagan
daupirispirda da saqme iqamdec mivida, rom oficialuri baqo
oficialur erevans atomur eleqtrosadgurze TavdasxmiT dae-
muqra. Tu es konfliqti farTomasStabian SeiaraRebul dapiri-
spirebaSi gadaizrdeba, ra elis saqarTvelos?
„qronika+~ gTavazobT intervius
usafrTxoebis eqsp-
ert konstantine forCxiZesTan,
romelic wlebis ganmavlobaSi
samxedro kontrdaz-
vervis maRalCinosani gaxldaT
da aRniSnul Temebs zedmiwven-
iT kargad icnobs:
_ batono kote, somxeT-azerbaijanis
konfliqtis ganax-
lebis sababi da mizezi, Tqveni
azriT, ra unda iyos?
_ marTalia, somxeTi oficialurad
ruseTis strategiuli
mokavSirea, magram paSinianis
mosvlis Semdeg xelisuflebis
moqmedebebSi prodasavluri
elementebi gaCnda. yvelafers
Tavi rom davaneboT, qveynis
mmarTvelobis forma ufro
demokratiuli gaxda, anu saprezidentodan
saparlamentoze
gadavida. es avtoritaruli
saxelmwifoebisTvis aradamaxasiaTebelia.
mokled, paSinianma
saxelmwifo mowyobis, daaxloebiT,
iseTi modeli Seqmna, rogoric
Cven gvaqvs. erTi sityviT,
somxeTSi demokratiuli
Zvrebi SeiniSneba, rac im qveyanas,
anu ruseTs, romelsac imperiuli
ambiciebi aqvs, ar awyobs.
_ e. i., eWvobT, rom is, rac
axla somxeT-azerbaijans Soris
xdeba kremlis provocire-
bulia?
_ ra Tqma unda. saerTod,
verc alievi gabedavs da verc
_ paSiniani, rom aseTi moqmedebebi
SeuTanxmeblad daiwyos.
_ anu?
_ SeuZlebelia, amis Sesaxeb
ruseTs, romelsac SeuZlia,
yvelaferi wamSi gaaCeros, Tavidanve
ar scodnoda.
_ batono kote, ambobT, rom
somxeTSi demokratiuli pro-
cesebi daiwyo. Sesabamisad,
igive paSiniani kremls xom
aRar daemorCileba?
_ gasagebia, magram swored
magas vambob, rom kremls somxeTSi
dawyebuli demokratiuli
procesebi ar awyobs. aseTi
saomari moqmedebebi ki somxe-
Tis mosaxleobaSi xelisuflebis
mimarT ndoba, minimum, Seiryeva
da, saboloo jamSi, saqme
SesaZloa, paSinianis mTavrobis
Secvlamde mivides. sxvaTa Soris,
aseTi scenari kremls araerTxel
gauTamaSebia.
_ somxeT-azerbaijanis mtroba
ramdenime aTeul wels iTvlis,
magram Tqvens xelT arsebuli
informaciiT, axla konfliqti
romeli mxaris inicia-
tiviT ganaxlda?
_ es ar vici, magram me Sedegebis
mixedviT vmsjelob. es
Sedegi ki isaa, rom oficialuri
baqo somxeTs daemuqra,
rom ieriSs mis atomur eleqtrosadgurze
miitans. am sadgurze
ieriSis mitana mxolod
somxeTisTvis ki ara, mTeli regionisTvis
katastrofa iqneba!
amasTan, isic ar unda dagvaviwydes,
rom is raioni, sadac somxeT-azerbaijanis
Sexla-Semoxla
mimdinareobs, saqarTvelos
sazRvarTan Zalian axlosaa,
Tumca simarTle giTxraT, ar
mgonia, rom es konfliqti far-
TomasStabian omSi gadaizardos.
_ ratom ar ggoniaT?
_ saboloo jamSi, ruseTi
Caereva.
_ Tu ruseTs, rogorc momrigebels,
am konfliqtSi Careva
unda, dros ratomRa wel-
avs?
_ rogorc giTxariT, kremli
elodeba, rom somxeTis xelisuflebam
eleqtoratSi qulebi
dakargos.
_ ise, zogi ambobs, rom ofi-
cialuri baqos ukan SesaZloa,
TurqeTi idges. am versias
iziarebT, batono kote?
_ ara.
_ damisabuTeT, ratom?
_ es SeTqmulebis Teoriaa,
romelsac ar unda gavyveT.
_ is, rom baqos interesebi
SesaZloa, oficialurma an-
karam gaamagros, SeTqmulebis
Teoria ratom aris?
_ zogi imasac ambobs, am konfliqtSi
ruseTi Caereva da somxeTis
dasaxmareblad misi jarebi
saqarTveloze gaivliano,
magram, Cemi SefasebiT, procesebi
am scenariT ar ganviTardeba.
sxvaTa Soris, somxeTsa da
azerbaijans Soris konfliqti
2016 welsac ganaxlda, magram
maleve dasrulda.
_ ki batono, magram axla,
mgoni, sxva mocemulobaa _ bo-
los da bolos, ramdenime dRis
win baqoSi mravalaTasiani aqcia
gaimarTa da xalxma xe-
lisuflebas,
praqtikulad,
omis dawyeba mosTxova.
_ mesmis, magram vimeoreb: ar
mgonia, rom yvelaferi farTomasStabian
SeiaraRebul dapirispirebaSi
gadaizardos. es scenari
arc TurqeTis interesSia
da arc _ ruseTis. zogadad,
axla iseTi mocemulobaa, rom
ruseTi verc azerbaijanis mxares
dadgeba da verc _ somxe-
Tis. aqve isic ar dagaviwydeT,
rom samive qveyana _ ruseTi,
azerbaijani da somxeTic „odekabes”
wevria da SeuZliaT, nebismieri
problema „odekabes”
sxdomaze moagvaron. ise, rasac
axla vambob, Cemi logikuri
dakvirvebis Sedegia da ar vamtkiceb,
rom WeSmaritebaa.
_ vTqvaT, Tqveni prognozi
ar gamarTlda da somxeT-azer-
baijanis konfliqti, minimum,
droSi gaiwela. amiT Cveni qveyana
ra safrTxis winaSe dadge-
ba?
_ Tu konfliqti didxans
gagrZeldeba, bunebrivia, Cvenc
Segvexeba.
_ rogor?
_ jer erTi, yvelaferi es
Cvens samezobloSi xdeba. meorec,
saqarTvelos sxvadasxva
regionSi eTnikuri azerbaijanelebi
da somxebi kompaqturad
cxovroben. amas garda, qvemo
qarTlSi iseTi raionebicaa, sa-
konstantine forCxiZe:
`kremli elodeba,
rom somxeTis
xelisuflebam
eleqtoratSi
qulebi dakargos~
dac azerbaijanuli da somxuri
soflebi, praqtikulad, erTmaneTis
mezobladaa. xelisuflebam
swored amas unda miaqcios
yuradReba. mokled, Tu somxeTazerbaijanis
dapirispireba aqtiur
fazaSi Sevida, yvelaferi
es SesaZloa, CvenTanac gadmovides.
saerTod, konfliqts e. w.
gadadineba axasiaTebs, miT umetes,
iseT regionebSi, rogor-
Sic Cven vcxovrobT. ise, somxuri
mosaxleoba ruseTisgan okupirebul
afxazeTSicaa. marneuli
ki, sadac azerbaijanelebi
cxovroben, TbilisTan axlosaa.
amasTan, arcTu didi xnis
winaT daviT garejTan dakav-
SirebiT garkveuli daZabuloba
arsebobda.
_ sxvaTa Soris, marneulSi
nariman narimanovis Zeglis
gamo procesebi axlac duRs _
ramdenime dRis win „qarTulma
marSma” am Zeglis aReba moiTxova.
am Temaze sus-Si gamoZie-
`paSinianma saxelmwifo mowyobis, daaxloebiT,
iseTi modeli Seqmna, rogoric Cven gvaqvs.
erTi sityviT, somxeTSi demokratiuli Zvrebi
SeiniSneba, rac im qveyanas, anu ruseTs,
romelsac imperiuli ambiciebi aqvs, ar awyobs~
bacaa dawyebuli...
_ diax, magram ZeglTan dakavSirebuli
problema sadavo
Temaa.
_ anu?
_ yvelaferi informaciis naklebobam
ganapiroba... xelisufleba
kanonebis Sesrulebas
yuradRebas unda aqcevdes.
_ ras gulisxmobT?
_ Cveni kanonmdeblobiT, ar
SeiZleba, saqarTveloSi sabWo-
Ta simbolikiani Zeglebi idges,
anu Tu stalinis Zegli moxsnilia,
viRacam SeiZleba, ikiTxos,
_ narimanovis Zegli ratom
dgaso? erTi sityviT, yvelaferi
es, Cemi azriT, garedan inspirirebuls
ufro hgavs, vidre
imas, rom romelime Sida
politikurma dajgufebam es sakiTxi
sakuTari interesebisTvis
gamoiyenos. zogadad, aseTi
raRacebi axali araa da somxeTazerbaijanis
daZabulobis fonze
SesaZlebelia, rom inspiraciis
axali momentebi CvenTanac
gaCndes. amitomac vambob,
rom xelisuflebas maqsimaluri
operatiuli yuradReba mar-
Tebs.
_ operatiuli yuradReba
mxolod axla ki ara, yovelT-
vis aucilebelia, magram 2008
wlis agvistos omidan 12 wlisTavi
axlovdeba. hoda, sifrTxile,
mgoni, am mimarTul-
ebiTac ar gvawyenda, anu Tu
kremli somxeTis daxmarebas
gadawyvets, yvela variantSi
saqarTveloze gaivlis da es
Cveni okupaciis axali sababi
xom ar gaxdeba?
_ ruseTi somxeTs saqarTveloze
gavlis gareSe daxmarebas
ver gauwevs, magram mainc
mgonia, rom kremli amas ar gaakeTebs.
bolo dros e. w. politikuri
samkuTxedi Camoyalibda.
_ ras gulisxmobT?
_ irani, azerbaijani da
ruseTi bolo dros erTmaneTs
Zalian dauxlovdnen. am daax-
28
28 N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
azerbaijanis ganaxlebuli konfliqti?
loebaSi didi roli ruseTma
iTamaSa. amitomac vambob, rom
ar SeiZleba, somxeT-azerbaijanis
konfliqtma farTomasStabiani
saxe miiRos, radgan amas
igive am „politikuri samkuTxedis”
rRveva moyveba, rac ruseTisTvis
saziano iqneba. sxvaTa
Soris, erT-erTi pirveli
viyavi, vinc vambobdi, rom ruse-
Ti samxreTiT apirebda gafar-
Toebas da amitomac cdilobda,
rom procesebi axlo aRmosavleTSi
gadaetana. praqtikulad,
es prognozi gamarTlda.
_ ukacravad, es ra SuaSia?
_ ruseTs urTierToba mxolod
somxeTTan ki ara, azerbaijanTanac
aqvs da igive „odekabes”
sistema, romelic weRan
vaxsene da romlis wevric samive
saxelmwifoa, maT garkveul
TavSekavebas avaldebulebs. ise,
zogs SesaZloa, surdes, rom am
ganaxlebul konfliqtSi TurqeTi
azerbaijanis mxares Caer-
Tos, magram TurqeTma es nabiji
rom gadadgas da azerbaijans
samxedro daxmareba aRmouCinos,
manac, ruseTis msgavsad,
saqarTvelos teritoria unda
gaiaros.
_ anu Tu somxeT-azerbaijanis
konfliqti farTomasSta-
biani gaxdeba, saqarTvelos
safrTxe yvela mxridan daemu-
qreba?
_ diax, asea.
sxvaTa Soris, Cven TurqeTsa
da azerbaijanTan samxedro sferoSi
TanamSromlobaze xelSekruleba
gvaqvs. Sesabamisad,
am qveynebis Tavdacvis ministrebi,
rogorc vici, yovel
wels ikribebian da samxedro-teqnikur
TanamSromlobaze
msjeloben.
_ ukacravad, amiT
risi Tqma gindaT, anu
ra miniSnebas akeTebT?
_ ruseTi somxeTis
mokavSire respublikad
iTvleba da aq erTi mniSvnelovani
niuansicaa.
_ kerZod?
_ im SemTxvevaSi,
Tu somxeTi romelime
mxaresTan SeiaraRebul
konfliqtSi iqneba
CaTreuli, maSin
samxedro xelmZRvaneloba
ruseTma unda
aiRos, anu somxeTis
SeiaraRebul
Zalebs rusi
sardali eyoleba.
erTi si-
`me Sedegebis mixedviT vmsjelob. es Sedegi ki isaa, rom oficialuri baqo
somxeTs daemuqra, rom ieriSs mis atomur eleqtrosadgurze miitans. am
sadgurze ieriSis mitana mxolod somxeTisTvis ki ara, mTeli regionisTvis
katastrofa iqneba! amasTan, isic ar unda dagvaviwydes, rom is raioni,
sadac somxeT-azerbaijanis Sexla-Semoxla mimdinareobs, saqarTvelos
sazRvarTan Zalian axlosaa, Tumca simarTle giTxraT, ar mgonia, rom es
konfliqti farTomasStabian omSi gadaizardos~
tyviT, swored esaa Semakavebeli
faqtori, rom ruseTi axlandel
konfliqtSi ar Caer-
Tos, radgan is arc azerbaijan-
Tan interesebs gawiravs da axlo
aRmosavleTis gamo urTierTobas
arc TurqeTTan gaifuWebs.
_ asea Tu ise, ar fiqrobT,
rom saqarTvelos xelisufleba
da, saerTod, Cveni poli-
tikuri elita am kuTxiT ufro
met yuradRebas unda iCendes?
_ ra Tqma unda, am Temebze
xelisuflebac unda saubrobdes
da opoziciac. sxvaTa Soris,
saqarTvelos mediatoris
rolis TamaSic SeuZlia.
_ rogor?
_ erTi qveyana Cveni strategiuli
partnioria, meoresTan
ki megobruli urTierToba
gvaqvs.
_ Cveni strategiuli
partniori azerbaijania Tu
somxeTi?
_ azerbaijani _ masTan
strategiuli TanamSromlobis
xelSekruleba gvaqvs
gaformebuli. mokled,
yvelafer aqedan da aseve
iqidan gamomdinare, rom
baqo-Tbilisi-jeihanis strategiul
derefanSi varT CarTulebi,
SegviZlia, mediatoris
roli SevasruloT.
_ calsaxad viciT, rom
ruseTi somxeTis mokavSirea.
amasTan, calkeuli amerikeli
kongresmenebi saqarTvelos xe-
lisuflebaze eWvoben, rom is
rusul interesebs atarebs. am
mocemulobaSi saqarTvelom
mediatoroba rogor unda
ikisros?
_ naklebad mjera.
_ naklebad risi gjeraT?
_ im gancxadebebis, romelsac
kongresmenebi lobistebis
gavleniT akeTeben. aq mTavari
aSS-is oficialuri poziciaa,
anu oficialuri vaSingtoni ar
fiqrobs, rom saqarTvelos
dRevandel xelisuflebas prorusuli
ganwyobebi aqvs. ise,
aseTive warmatebiT SegviZlia,
wina xelisuflebis rusul interesebzec
visaubroT.
_ batono kote, rva welia,
„nacionaluri moZraoba” xe-
lisuflebaSi aRaraa da masze
saubari ras mogvcems?
_ ki batono, magram „nacionaluri
moZraoba” da misi ganayofebi
axlac xelisuflebis
nawilebi arian.
_ es rogor?
_ ratom gaviwydebaT, rom
„nacionaluri moZraoba” da igive
„evropuli saqarTvelo” sakanonmdeblo
xelisuflebaSia?
_ ar maviwydeba, magram
mmarTveli partia „qarTuli
ocnebaa” da, Sesabamisad, gada-
wyvetilebebsac is iRebs.
_ parlamenti xelisuflebis
erT-erTi Stoa, miT umetes,
CvenTan, sadac saparlamento
`ruseTi somxeTs saqarTveloze gavlis
gareSe daxmarebas ver gauwevs, magram
mainc mgonia, rom kremli amas ar
gaakeTebs~
mmarTvelobaa, anu saqarTvelo-
Si saparlamentos aRmasrulebel
xelisuflebaze meti Zala
aqvs! mokled, saparlamento respublikaSi
mniSvneloba ar aqvs,
politikuri partia umravlesobaSia
Tu umciresobaSi, is
xelisuflebis nawilia!
_ geTanxmebiT, rom qveyana-
Si mimdinare procesebze garkveuli
pasuxismgebloba opo-
ziciasac ekisreba. ise, Tavis
droze, daviT garejTan dakav-
SirebiT viTareba Cveni prezidentis
gancxadebebis gamo da-
iZaba. salome zurabiSvilma
somxeT-azerbaijanis
kon-
fliqtzec rame rom Tqvas,
amiT xom ar davzaraldebiT?
_ ara.
_ ratom?
_ salome zurabiSvili gavleniani
figura araa.
_ diax, magram qveynis mTa-
varsardalia.
_ mTavarsardali ki aris,
magram realuri Zala ar gaaCnia
_ premieris asignaciis
gareSe mas aranairi nabijis
gadadgma ar SeuZlia. amitom
qveyanaSi pirveli piri, realurad,
premier-ministria. aqedan
gamomdinare, zurabiSvilis
gancxadebebze araferia damokidebuli!
SeiZleba, misi naTqvami
yuradsaRebi iyos, magram
ar mgonia, rom mis naTqvams
vinme ramed aRiqvamdes!
_ bolos, batono kote, Tu
konfliqti garTuldeba, xom
ar unda velodoT, rom somx-
eTidan da azerbaijanidan
saqarTvelos devnilebi moaw-
ydebian?
_ ar mgonia. mokled, minda,
sazogadoeba davamSvido, rom
es konfliqti iseT saxes ar miiRebs,
rasac erTmaneTis teritoriebze
Sesvla da saomari
moqmedebebi moyveba. kidev erTxel
vimeoreb: am konfliqtis
marTva ruseTs SeuZlia. yvelafer
amiT ruseTi Seecdeba,
rom paSinianis xelisuflebis
mimarT somxeTis mosaxleobis
ndoba daikargos!
N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
29
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
`ocnebas~ ar unda awyobdes
19 wlis fexburTeli giorgi
nene injgia
SaqaraSvili 4-dRiani Ziebis Semdeg,
591 71 39 98
22 ivniss, mdinare aragvSi gardacv-
lili ipoves. prokuraturis mier
gavrcelebuli gancxadebis mixedviT, SaqaraSvilis dakargvas win
uZRoda or jgufs Soris dapirispireba. movlenebis ganviTarebis
kvaldakval, masze Zaladobis Tavidan asarideblad, SaqaraS-
vili mdinaris mimarTulebiT gaiqca, ra drosac misi kvali
daikarga. 18 ivniss momxdari Cxubis epizodze 17 piria dakave-
buli. yvela maTgans winaswari patimroba Seefarda. 10 ivliss
saqarTvelos mTavarma prokuraturam ganacxada, rom 19 wlis
giorgi SaqaraSvilis saqmeze mimdinare gamoZiebis ukve arsebul
kvalifikacias daemata damamZimebel garemoebebSi jgufurad
ganxorcielebuli ganzrax mkvleloba.
591 71 39 98
Tamar korZaia:
cdilobs Tu ara xelisu-
fleba am saqmis Cafarcxvas?
ra roli aqvs am viTarebaSi sa-
zogadoebas da ras pasuxobs
opozicia
xelisuflebis
braldebas, rom saqmes poli-
tikuri miznebisTvis iyeneben?
am da sxva aqtualuri politikuri
Temebis Sesaxeb „qron-
ika+~ respublikuri partiis
wevr Tamar korZaias esaubra:
_ qalbatono Tamar, konkre-
tulad, ra kiTxvebi gaqvT
„giorgi SaqaraSvilis saqmis”
gamoZiebasTan dakavSirebiT?
_ ra Tqma unda, am Temis
Sesaxeb yvela is kiTxva miCndeba,
rasac media svams. arsebobs
Seusabamobebi, _ ram gamoiwvia
mowmeebis Cvenebebis ramdenjerme
cvlileba? ratom daiwva
is Senoba, romelic SesaZloa,
mtkicebulebebiT yofiliyo
savse? gasagebia, rom giorgi
SaqaraSvilis gardacvalebis
mizezi asfiqsiaa, magram jer
kidev pasuxgaucemelia kiTxva,
_ SaqaraSvili daaxrCves Tu
gondakarguli Caagdes? es Zalian
mniSvnelovani detalebia,
bevri SekiTxvaa da es arsebiTi
sakiTxia sisxlis samarTlis
saqmeebis dros, radgan kvalifikacia
zusti unda iyos da
adamianma pasuxi unda agos im
qmedebisTvis da danaSaulisTvis,
rac man Caidina. realurad,
aseTi gamoZiebis pirobebSi SesaZlebelia,
rom am axalgazrdis
mkvlelobisTvis vinmem pasuxi
agos?! SeiZleba, viRacebma
pasuxi agon ZaladobisTvis,
viRacebma _ cru Cvenebis micemisTvis,
magram yvelaze mTavari
am SemTxvevaSi aris is,
rom SeiZleba ver dadgindes
damnaSavis vinaoba. am eWvs amyarebs
saxalxo damcvelis mier
gakeTebuli gancxadeba, rom
saqmis Seswavlis Sedegad saqmis
masalebSi Cans mkvlelobisTvis
bralis wasayeneblad
arasakmarisi mtkicebulebebi.
mTeli problema swored es
aris, rom sagamoZiebo uwyebebi
imdenad nela muSaoben, rom
saTanado mtkicebulebebis
mopoveba SeuZlebeli gaxda.
zogierT mtkicebulebas amdeni
drois ganmavlobaSi bunebrivad
ganadgurebac ki emuqreboda,
zogac _ xelovnuri.
magaliTad, kvalis waSla da a.
S. realoba aseTia: Cven varT
safrTxis winaSe, rogorc xoravas
quCis SemTxvevaSi, _ mkvleli
ar Cans am saqmeSi. es iqneba
yvelaze cudi, radgan calsaxaa,
_ axalgazrda mokles,
magram saxelmwifo giorgi
SaqaraSvilis mkvlels ver poulobs,
rac erTmniSvnelovnad
mianiSnebs, rom xelisufleba
xels afarebs viRacas an,
ubralod, ver muSaobs. es Cemi
Sefasebaa da igi mediis mier
gavrcelebul informacias eyrdnoba.
am informaciis Tanaxmad
ki ufro savaraudoa, rom
winaswar patimrobaSi myofebs
seriozuli mfarvelebi hyavT.
_ Tqven axseneT „xoravas saqme”.
im gamocdilebidan gamomdinare,
rac am xelisufleb-
is mmarTvelobis pirobebSi
dagvigrovda msgavsi tipis
saqmeebze, gavigebT Tu ara si-
marTles „SaqaraSvilis saqmis”
Sesaxeb?
_ „xoravas saqmezec” adamianebi
cixeSi sxedan; Tavis
droze, „girgvlianis saqmezec”
Casves viRacebi cixeSi... magram
faqtia: gadawyvetileba usamarTlo
iyo da sakiTxebi sa-
Tanadod ar Seiswavles _ visac
ra simZimiTac ekuTvnoda samarTlis
Tanaxmad pasuxismgebloba,
Sesabamisad da adekvaturad
ar daisajnen. im adamianebs,
romlebic cdilobdnen
gamoZiebisTvis xelis SeSlas
da mkvlelebze xelis dafarebas
an danaSaulis Semsubuqebas,
wlebis Semdeg mouwiaT am
saqmeebze cixeSi Cajdoma (magaliTad,
„girgvlianis saqmeze”
Sinagan saqmeTa yofili ministri
vano merabiSvili). aqedan
gamomdinare, SeiZleba wlebis
Semdeg raRac Seicvalos, magram
mTavaria, sazogadoebam
ar daviviwyoT es saqme. Cveni
gamocdilebis mqone qveyanaSi,
bunebrivia, gancda, rom samar-
Tali srulyofilad izeimebs,
ar gvaqvs. garda amisa, dRevandeli
xelisuflebis pirobebSi
aris saqmeebi, sadac sasamarTlom
sastiki damnaSaveebi gamamarTlebeli
ganaCeniT gamouSva.
magaliTad: marneulis
gamgebel Temur abazovis qeisi
mkvlelobaze uaresi danaSaulia
da sasamarTlom igi gaamarTla;
sturuas qeisic katastrofulia,
radgan adamianma
Tavi moikla da werili dato-
`xelisufleba
danaSaulebriv
garigebaSia
kriminalur
samyarosTan~
va, sadac Tqva, rom konkretuli
adamiani mas aSantaJebda da
sxva gza rom ar hqonda, amitom
moikla Tavi. is adamiani ki,
vis gamoc Tavi moikla, sasamarTlom
gaamarTla; Cven gvaqvs
qeisi, sadac adamiani mowmeTa
dacvis institutiT sargeblobda,
mas Secvlili hqonda
saxeli da gvari, radgan xelisuflebasTan
TanamSromlobda.
swored xelisuflebasTan
TanamSromlobis „egidiT” da
saxelmwifo dacvis meqanizmebiT,
isev saxelmwifos warmomadgenlebma,
policielebma,
„kanonieri qurdis” davalebiT
gaitaces, miuyvanes qurdebs, am
ukanasknelebma ki igi mokles.
aseT ganukiTxaobaSi, roca xelisufleba
danaSaulebriv
garigebaSia kanonier qurdebTan,
kriminalur samyarosTan,
gancda realuria, rom SaqaraSvilis
Temazec igive SemTxvevasTan
SeiZleba gvqondes saqme.
_ Tqven aRniSneT, rom mTavaria,
sazogadoebam ar daivi-
wyos „SaqaraSvilis saqme”. ra
roli aqvs sazogadoebasa da
opoziciur partiebs im kuTxiT,
rom samarTali aRsrul-
des?
_ sazogadoebas Zala aqvs da
SeuZlia aiZulos xelisufleba,
rom adekvaturi gadaw-
`realurad, aseTi gamoZiebis pirobebSi
SesaZlebelia, rom am axalgazrdis
mkvlelobisTvis vinmem pasuxi agos?! SeiZleba,
viRacebma pasuxi agon ZaladobisTvis, viRacebma
- cru Cvenebis micemisTvis, magram yvelaze
mTavari am SemTxvevaSi aris is, rom SeiZleba
ver dadgindes damnaSavis vinaoba. am eWvs
amyarebs saxalxo damcvelis mier gakeTebuli
gancxadeba, rom saqmis Seswavlis Sedegad saqmis
masalebSi Cans mkvlelobisTvis bralis
wasayeneblad arasakmarisi mtkicebulebebi~
yvetilebebi miiRos. „xoravas
saqme” amis magaliTia, _ rom
ara sazogadoebrivi protesti,
zaza saraliZe ver miaRwevda
imas, rasac miaRwia, magram jer
kidev ar dasrulebula es saqme
da ar viciT, ra Sedegs vixilavT.
amitom sazogadoeba xelisuflebis
mTavari makontrolebelia
da sazogadoeba
aris xelisuflebis wyaro. Tu
es xelisufleba ar gamoiCens
gonierebas da ver mixvdeba,
rom misi Zalaufleba xalxze
dgas da ara _ biZina ivaniSvilze,
ra Tqma unda, cudad daamTavrebs
da iseTi Sedegi dadgeba,
rogoric _ girgvlianis
SemTxvevaSi. mere yvela agebs
pasuxs! am etapze aseTi gancda
mrCeba: es, ra Tqma unda, winaswari
Sefasebaa. sanam saboloo
sasamarTlo gadawyvetileba ar
iqneba, 100%-iani sizustiT verafers
vityviT, magram vfiqrob,
rom „SaqaraSvilis saqmeze”
momaval parlaments sagamoZiebo
komisiis Seqmna mouwevs. sagamoZiebo
komisia Ria procesia
da gamWvirvaloba ulternativoa
normalur xelisuflebaSi.
swored am farglebSi
unda davsvaT SekiTxvebi gamo-
ZiebasTan, prokuraturasTan.
_ rogor fiqrobT, ratom
riskavs xelisufleba, miT
umetes, winasaarCevnod? ratom
ikveTeba lafsusebi Zieb-
is procesSi?
_ didi xania, es xelisufleba
ZalauflebiT tkbeba da
didi xania, kavSiri gawyveta sazogadoebasTan.
mTavrobisTvis
biZina ivaniSvili xalxze prioritetulia.
xelisuflebas
arCevnebis win ar unda awyobdes
„SaqaraSvilis saqmis” gamouZiebloba,
magram simZimis centri
sxvagan aris da ara sajaro
sivrceSi...
_ SaqaraSvilis mkvlelobis
Sesaxeb saqarTvelos prezi-
dentma ganacxada: „vaJkacoba
vici erTi erTze, jgufuri
30
30 N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
`SaqaraSvilis saqmis~ gamouZiebloba~
Zaladoba aris miuRebeli,
araqarTuli”, _ ramdenad ade-
kvaturia prezidenti zurabiS-
vili Tavis gancxadebaSi?
_ mimaCnia, rom qalbaton
prezidents, isev da isev, qar-
Tul enaze verbalizaciis problema
aqvs da mis gancxadeba-
Si araviTari kriminaluri samyaros
mxardaWera ar ikveTeboda.
samwuxaroa, rom amdeni xnis
ganmavlobaSi prezidenti ar
cdilobs, sakuTar Tavze imuSaos,
rom sworad gamoTqvas
sakuTari naazrevi. es aris upativcemuloba
misi moqalaqeebis
mimarT.
_ xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebi
acxadeben, rom opoz-
iciuri speqtri SaqaraSvilis
tragedias politikuri miznebisTvis
iyenebs. ras upasux-
ebT maT am Sefasebas?
_ samwuxaroa: saqarTveloSi,
rodesac seriozul sakiTxebze
undaT msjeloba, maSinve politikuri
Sefasebebis demonizacias
uwyoben xels, sinamdvile-
Si ki Tu seriozulad gvinda
konkretul sakiTxze msjeloba,
zustadac politikurad unda
vimsjeloT da es umniSvnelovanesia.
ar SeiZleba, politika
da politikuri Sefasebebi
saSinelebad miiCneodes.
xSirad swored politikuri Sefasebebia
veqtoris ganmsazRvreli.
mTeli dasavleTi da Tanamedrove
samayaro amaze dgas.
ra Tqma unda, xelisufleba
cdilobs, politikuri Sefasebebis
iarliyiT dafaros saku-
Tari umoqmedoba da isrebi
opoziciaze gadmoitanos, Tumca
politikosebi opoziciaSi
imitom arseboben, rom movlena
saTanadod Seafason da politikuri
gamosavali dainaxon;
xolo xelisufleba imisTvis
arsebobs, rom es politikuri
gadawyvetileba miiRos. Tu politikaSi
xar, es martivad gasagebia.
xelisufleba ki cdilobs
damangreveli poziciebiT
Zalauflebis xelSi dakavebas.
_ ukve Tveebia grZeldeba
aSS-is kongresmenebisa da sen-
atorebis kritika mmarTveli
gundis misamarTiT. metic: 13
kongresmenis werilSi biZina
ivaniSvili Riad aris moxse-
niebuli, rogorc putinis
kaci. rogor aisaxeba es yve-
laferi 2020 wlis arCevnebze?
_ am Sefasebebis mizania
saqarTveloSi demokratiuli
procesebis sworad da adekvaturad
warmarTva, raTa ar
daziandes qveynis demokratiuli
ganviTareba. werilebis pasuxad
„ocnebis” xelisufleba
amerikel kongresmenebs politikuri
interesebiT motivirebulebs
uwodebs; rom opozicias
lobistebi hyavs daqiravebuli.
lobizmi kanonieri da
legaluri saqmianobaa. SeuZliaT,
TviTonac daiqiravon lobistebi,
hyavT kidec daqirave-
`xoravas saqmezec~ adamianebi cixeSi sxedan; Tavis droze, `girgvlianis
saqmezec~ Casves viRacebi cixeSi... magram faqtia: gadawyvetileba usamarTlo
iyo da sakiTxebi saTanadod ar Seiswavles - visac ra simZimiTac ekuTvnoda
samarTlis Tanaxmad pasuxismgebloba, Sesabamisad da adekvaturad ar
daisajnen. im adamianebs, romlebic cdilobdnen gamoZiebisTvis xelis
SeSlas da mkvlelebze xelis dafarebas an danaSaulis Semsubuqebas, wlebis
Semdeg mouwiaT am saqmeebze cixeSi Cajdoma (magaliTad, `girgvlianis
saqmeze~ Sinagan saqmeTa yofili ministri vano merabiSvili)~
buli, gacilebiT mets ixdian,
magram, samwuxarod, „qarTuli
ocneba” imdenad cudad muSaobs,
rom lobistebic ki verafers
xdebian maTi interesebis
dasacavad. demokratiuli
ganviTareba, rogorc Rirebuleba,
msoflioSi umniSvnelovanesia
da isinic swored amas
uWeren mxars. demokratiuli
`sazogadoebas Zala aqvs da SeuZlia aiZulos
xelisufleba, rom adekvaturi
gadawyvetilebebi miiRos. `xoravas saqme~ amis
magaliTia, - rom ara sazogadoebrivi
protesti, zaza saraliZe ver miaRwevda imas,
rasac miaRwia, magram jer kidev ar
dasrulebula es saqme da ar viciT, ra
Sedegs vixilavT. amitom sazogadoeba
xelisuflebis mTavari makontrolebelia da
sazogadoeba aris xelisuflebis wyaro. Tu es
xelisufleba ar gamoiCens gonierebas da ver
mixvdeba, rom misi Zalaufleba xalxze dgas
da ara - biZina ivaniSvilze, ra Tqma unda,
cudad daamTavrebs da iseTi Sedegi dadgeba,
rogoric - girgvlianis SemTxvevaSi. mere
yvela agebs pasuxs!~
ganviTareba saqarTveloSi ni-
Snavs xelisuflebis Secvlas
arCevnebis gziT da xelisufleba
ar unda Zaladobdes sazogadoebriv
azrze. rac Seexeba
ivaniSvilis putinis kacad moxseniebas,
es, garkveulwilad,
signalia. is, rom anakliis portis
mSenebloba SeCerda, axla
ukve Rrmawylovani portis Temebze
gaurkveveli da bundovani
viTarebaa an sakanonmdeblo
doneze saqarTvelos parlamenti
iRebs araadekvatur
gadawyvetilebebs, romelic
gulisxmobs mediaSi droebiTi
mmarTvelis Seyvanas, es niSnavs,
rom biZina ivaniSvils xelisuflebis
mitaceba unda putiniviT.
es ki mizezs aZlevs dasavleTs,
rom putinis kvali dainaxos
biZina ivaniSvilis saqmianobaSi.
_ rogor fiqrobT, es mizanmimarTuli
politikaa rusu-
li interesebis gasatare-
blad?
_ am SemTxvevaSi mTavari
isaa, Tu vis sasargeblod dgeba
Sedegi. Sedegi ki calsaxad
ruseTis sasargeblod dgeba.
ruseTi marTla imas ki ar fiqrobs,
rom tankebiT Semova saqarTveloSi,
misi mizania aracivilizebuli,
gaWirvebuli
saxelmwifos xilva, sadac dasavluri
samyaro, amerikis SeerTebuli
Statebi, Tavis interesebs
ver gaatarebs. aqedan
gamomdinare, Sedegis TvalsazrisiT,
yvelaze cudi Sedegi
iqneba saqarTvelos moqalaqeebisTvis.
_ garda imisa, rom dasavle-
Ti xelisuflebas akritikebs,
opozicias ra berketebi gaqvT
„qarTuli ocnebis” dasamarcxeblad,
maSin, roca xelisufleba
administraciul da fi-
nansur resursebs flobs?
_ pirveli rigSi, Zalian
gvWirdeba saerTaSoriso damkvirveblebis
seriozuli warmomadgenloba,
aseve adgilobrivi
arasamTavrobo seqtori, politikuri
partiebisa da mediis
yuradReba, rom arCevnebis
dRes xelisuflebam arCevnebi
ver gaayalbos.
_ neitraluri amomrCevlis
sakmaod didi raodenobaa. mas
ra alternativa aqvs?
_ is sakonstitucio cvlilebebi,
rac saerTaSoriso da
sazogadoebrivi zewolis Sedegad
ganxorcielda, ar aris
srulad proporciuli, magram
aris 120/30-ze, raTa saqarTvelos
moqalaqes arCevanis meti
Sansi hqondes, rac adekvaturad
aisaxeba saparlamento Semadgenlobaze.
ufro didi
Sroma gvWirdeba winasaarCevno
periodSi, rom adamianebi arCevnebze
movidnen da irwmunon,
_ maTTvis sasurveli kandidatis
Semoxazva ukve niSnavs did
Sanss, rom misi warmomadgeneli
aucileblad moxvdeba parlamentSi.
_ „qarTuli ocnebis” saarCevno
Stabis ufrosad irak-
li kobaxiZe dainiSna. rogor
SeafasebT mmarTveli gundis
am gzavnils?
_ mmarTveli gundi agresiul
da Tavxedur kampanias Caatarebs,
radgan „qarTuli ocnebis”
saarCevno Stabis ufrosad
daniSnuli irakli kobaxiZe
Tavad aris Tavxedi adamiani.
_ ra formiT CaerTvebiT
respublikuri partia 2020
wlis saparlamento arCevneb-
Si?
_ partiebTan molaparakebebs
vawarmoebT. dRevandeli
saarCevno sistema namdvilad
iZleva imis SesaZleblobas,
rom damoukideblad an koaliciurad
gavideT romelime partiasTan
erTad. jerjerobiT
ar gadagviwyvetia. aucileblad
SegatyobinebT.
N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
31
Tamar rostiaSvili
577 10 07 06
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
axali koronavirusis meore talRasTan sabrZolvelad, jan-
dacvis msoflio organizaciasTan erTad, „nato” erTveba.
rogorc misma generalurma mdivanma iens stoltenbergma aRni-
Sna, Crdiloatlantikuri aliansi SesaZlo meore talRisTvis
emzadeba. amisTvis yvela qveynis Tavdacvis ministrma axali
saoperacio gegma unda Seadginos samedicino aRWurvilobis
momaragebisa da aucilebeli samedicino masalebis swrafi
miwodebisTvis, razedac axal fondze SeTanxmeba ukve Sedga.
COVID 19-is meore
ratom ar monawileobs amaSi
saqarTvelos Tavdacvis saministro,
amas „qronika+” calke publikacias
miuZRvnis, axla ki jandacvis
im axal regulaciebze, romelic
meore talRis SemTxvevaSi
amoqmeddeba da raSic garkveuli
wvlili ombudsmenis aparats miuZRvis.
evropasa da aziaSi mimdinare
movlenebis fonze, saqarTveloSi
ukve Riad saubroben Semodgomaze
mosalodneli meore talRis Sesaxeb.
rogorc daavadebaTa kontrolis
erovnuli centris Tavmjdomare
amiran gamyreliZem am dReeb-
Si ganacxada, saqarTvelom meore
talRisTvis mzadeba ukve daiwyo.
„meore talRa SeiZleba gaaqtiurdes
Semodgomis, aciebis periodSi,
imisda mixedviT, Tu romel
sartyelSi varT. CvenTan, mogexsenebaT,
respiratoruli virusebi,
ZiriTadad, aqtiurdebian oqtombris
meore naxevridan da SesaZlebelia,
gripTan erTad, koronavirusuli
infeqciac gaaqtiurdes.
Tumca kidev erTxel vusvam xazs,
rom mecnierTa garkveuli jgufi
emxroba imas, rom TandaTanobiT
virusis agresiuloba da virulentoba
iklebs”.
cudi am informaciaSi is gaxlavT,
rom virusi oqtombris meore
naxevridan gaaqtiurdeba, kargi
_ virusis agresiulobam rom
SeiZleba daiklos.
asec da isec, rogorc qarTveli,
ise ucxoeli ufledamcvelebis
azriT, Cvens qveyanaSi meti
yuradReba unda mieqces adamianis
uflebebs. kerZod, pirveli tal-
Ris dros mniSvnelovani darRvevebi
dafiqsirda sakarantine da
TviTizolaciis pirobebSi adamian-
Ta ganTavsebis dros. es ar unda
ganmeordes meore talRis SemTxvevaSi,
ris Sesaxebac specialuri
angariSi moamzada saxalxo damcvelis
aparatma.
„sazogadoebirivi janmrTelobis
Sesaxeb” saqarTvelos kanonis
mixedviT, izolacia aris „inficirebuli
piris gancalkeveba sxva adamianebisgan
daavadebis gadamdeblobis
periodis ganmavlobaSi”,
sakarantine RonisZiebebi ki aris
„RonisZiebaTa erToblioba, romelic
gamoiyeneba im piris mimarT,
romelic ar aris avad, magram hqonda
eqspozicia gadamdeblobis periodis
ganmavlobaSi”.
maS, ase! pirvel rigSi, mniSvnelovania,
rom pirs, romelic ar
eTanxmeba mis mimarT sakarantine
RonisZiebis gamoyenebas, hqondes
SesaZlebloba gadawyvetilebis
mimReb zemdgom organoSi an sasamarTloSi
misi gasaCivrebis da rac
mTavaria, samarTlebrivi Sedegebis
droulad miRebis.
anu Tu piri ar eTanxmeba mis-
Tvis wayenebul 14-dRian izolacias,
gasaCivrebis Semdeg maqsimum
2-3 dReSi unda miiRos pasuxi da
ara 2-3 Tvis Semdeg. arsebuli
kanonmdeblobis pirobebSi sakarantine
reJimis gasaCivreba ubralod
azrs kargavs, rac adamianis uflebaTa
pirdapiri darRvevaa. kerZod,
adamianis uflebaTa evropuli
konvenciis me-5 muxlis me-3 punqti
iTvaliswinebs dakavebuli Tu
dapatimrebuli piris, romlis mimarTac
arsebobs samarTaldarRvevis
Cadenis safuZvliani eWvi,
dauyovnebliv sasamarTlos winaSe
wardgenas.
dRes amas gansazRvravs saqar-
Tvelos konstitucia, romlis mixedviTac
piris dakavebis an Tavisuflebis
sxvagvari SezRudvis kanoniereba
unda Seamowmos sasamarTlom.
ki batono, magram sasamarTlo
kontroli savaldebuloa im
SemTxvevebSi, rodesac pirs Tavisufleba
ezRudeba samarTaldar-
Rvevis Cadenaze safuZvliani eWvis
gamo. mocemul SemTxvevaSi ki, rodesac
sakiTxi exeba infeqciuri
daavadebis gavrcelebis prevenciis
mizniT piris Tavisuflebis
SezRudvas, aq vrceldeba adamianis
uflebaTa evropuli konvenciis
me-5 muxlis me-4 punqti, romlis
mixedviTac nebismier pirs, vinc
daakaves an Tavisufleba SeuzRudes,
ufleba aqvs sasamarTlos wesiT,
droSi efeqtianad moiTxovos
dakavebis kanonierebis ganxilva da
safuZvlis ararsebobis SemTxveva-
Si ganTavisufleba.
Zalian kargia, rom saqarTvelos
TiToeuli moqalaqe saTanadod
aris informirebuli axali
koronavirusis gavrcelebis gzebis
Taobaze. Tumca urigo ar iqneba,
TavianTi uflebebis Sesaxebac
icodnen, rom Semdeg Cveni, Jurnalistebis
droc dazogon Tu
cxeli xazebic ar gadatvirTon.
ase rom, aq mocemul informacias
yuradRebiT gaecnon.
saqarTvelos saxalxo damcvelma
ukve dado angariSi imis Sesaxeb,
rom „sazogadoebrivi janmrTelobis
Sesaxeb” saqarTvelos kanoni ar
warmoadgens efeqtian meqanizms,
radgan gasaCivreba xdeba zogadi
administraciuli gasaCivrebis wesiT,
jer zemdgom organoSi, Semdeg
ki _ sasamarTloSi da gasaCivrebis
es procesi SeiZleba, Tveebi gagr-
Zeldes. rogorc aRvniSneT, sakiTxi
exeba 14 dRiT Tavisuflebis
SemzRudav RonisZiebas da ombudsmenis
moTxovniT imisTvis, rom gasaCivreba
CaiTvalos samarTlebrivi
dacvis qmediT saSualebad, samarTlebrivi
Sedegi maqsimalurad
mcire droSi unda dadges. anu pirma
maqsimalurad mcire droSi rom
SeZlos sakarantine sivrcis datoveba.
axla gadavideT konkretul
SemTxvevebze.
monitoringis mimdinareobisas
bavSvis uflebebis TvalsazrisiT
sayuradRebo ori SemTxveva gamovlinda.
es ori SemTxveva sayuradReboa
imdenad, ramdenadac kargad
Cans is ziani, rac bavSvs Sei-
Zleba miadges sakarantine sivrce-
Si moTavsebiT. saxalxo damcvelis
aparatis monitoringis dros gamovlenil
erT SemTxvevaSi, sakarantine
sivrceSi qali moTavsebuli
iyo or bavSvTan erTad, romelTagan
erT bavSvs aReniSneboda mudmivi
gaRizianeba, eSinoda ucxo
sivrceSi yofnis da tiroda gamudmebiT,
rac meore bavSvSi damatebiT
stress iwvevda. meore SemTxvevaSic
qali sakarantine sivrceSi
moTavsebuli iyo or bavSvTan, sadac,
erT-erT bavSvs aReniSneboda
autisturi speqtris aSliloba,
ris gamoc daxurul sivrceSi yofna
misTvis SeuZlebeli iyo. es meore
bavSvis Zilis reJimis darRvevas
iwvevda. pirvel SemTxvevaSi dedas
damxmared ojaxis wevri Seuyvanes,
xolo meore SemTxvevaSi sastumrom
ojaxs damatebiTi oTaxi
gamouyo. arada, es ojaxebi adamianis
uflebaTa dacvis evropuli
konvenciis mixedviT TviTizolaciaSi
unda gadaeyvanaT. orive SemTxvevaSi
TviTizolaciaSi gadayvanaze,
rac bavSvebis mdgomareobaze,
savaraudod, dadebiTad aisaxeboda,
uari eTqvaT.
bavSvTa kvebas rac Seexeba, dadginda,
rom ramdenime SemTxvevaSi
sakvebis momzadebis dros ar iyo
gaTvaliswinebuli bavSvebisTvis
aucilebeli saWiroebebi. problemebi
mogvarda mxolod erTeul
SemTxvevebSi (isic ramdenime dRis
Semdeg), rig SemTxvevaSi aRniSnuli
problema ar mogvarebula.
karantinSi an TviTizolaciaSi
gadayvanamde mniSvnelovania mogvardes
aeroportSi arsebuli
problemebi.
erT-erTma pirma moiTxova Tvi-
Tizolacia saqarTveloSi dabrunebamde.
Seavso forma da am periodSi
binis Semowmebac moaswres,
magram rogorc ki es piri saqarTveloSi
Camovida, aeroportSi uari
uTxres TviTizolaciaSi gadayvanaze.
manamde, saqarTveloSi dabrunebamde,
aRniSnuli piri daukav-
Sirda jandacvis saministros, vinaidan
ver avsebda TviTizolaciis
formas. saministroSi uTxres,
rom ver daexmarebodnen, radganac
azri ar hqonda Sevsebas. kiTxvaze,
_ ratom? _ jandacvis saministrosgan
iyo pasuxi, rom mxolod gansakuTrebul
SemTxvevebSi (mag.:
janmrTelobis mdgomareoba) Sei-
Zleboda TviTizolaciaSi gadayvana.
saqarTveloSi dabrunebis Semdeg
pirma mainc moiTxova TviTizolaciaSi
gadasvla, Tumca turizmis
erovnul administraciaSi
ganucxades, rom jandacvis saministrodan
uari movida piris Tvi-
Tizolaciaze. am pirovnebam gadawyvita,
Tavisi uflebebis dacva da
mimarTa cxelebis centrs, sadac
ganumartes, rom vinaidan PCR testma
uaryofiTi Sedegi aCvena (anu
ar hqonda „kovidi”), igi TviTizolaciaSi
unda gadasuliyo.
gamouyves transporti, romelsac
piri saxlSi unda waeyvana TviTizolaciisTvis
da am transportma
waiyvana sastumroSi da ara saxl-
Si. sastumroSi piri Seecada mis
xelT arsebuli erTaderTi saSualebiT
_ cxeli xazis (144) meSveobiT,
sakiTxis garkvevas, magram pasuxi
ver miiRo.
`koronavirusis gavrcelebis prevenciis mizniT
gatarebuli RonisZiebebis farglebSi,
saqarTveloSi dabrunebul moqalaqeebs,
sakarantine sivrceebSi ganawilebamde uwevdaT
saqarTvelos aeroportebSi garkveuli droiT
mocda. wamebis prevenciis evropuli komitetis
normativiT, aseTi pirebi uzrunvelyofili
unda iyvnen ZilisTvis Sesabamisi pirobebiT,
saTanadod mowyobili sapirfareSoTi da
saSxapiT. zedmetia imis dawera, rom msgavsi
ram saqarTvelos aeroportebSi ar yofila~
es SemTxveva ar gaxlavT erTaderTi
da evropuli konvenciis
Tanaxmad, es aris adamianis uflebebis
darRveva saxelmwifos mxridan.
Tumca ombudsmenis jandacvis
saministrosTan komunikaciis Sedegad
irkveva, rom saministros
xelT arsebuli SezRuduli adamianuri
da teqnikuri resursebis
gamo, rTuli iyo pirTa TviTizolaciaSi
gadayvanis organizeba.
aqve unda aRvniSnoT dadebiTi
tendencia, kerZod, 2020 wlis 2
ivnisidan N322 dadgenilebaSi gaiwera
damatebiTi kriteriumebi,
rasac unda akmayofilebdes piri
TviTizolaciaSi gadasayvanad. ase
rom, axali talRis SemTxvevaSi ase
xelaRebiT yvelas veRar gadaiyvanen
karantinSi.
112-dan 91 SemTxvevaSi, sazRvris
gadmokveTis dros, pirebs
miewodaT informacia savaldebulo
karantinis Sesaxeb. aqedan, 13
SemTxvevaSi informacia arc zepirad
da arc werilobiT ar miwodebiaT.
91 SemTxvevidan mxolod 34
pirs gadaeca „TviTizolacias
daqvemdebarebuli piris informirebis
forma”. 57 SemTxvevaSi, respondentebis
gancxadebiT, karantinSi
yofnisas, samarTaldamcveli
pirebi, samedicino da sastumros
momsaxure personali maT eTikurad
epyroboda. 2 SemTxvevaSi respondentebi
saubrobdnen Sinagan
saqmeTa saministros TanamSromlebis
mxridan Zalis gadametebaze.
3 SemTxvevaSi, Tbilisis aeroport-
Si myofi policiis TanamSromlebis
mxridan adgili hqonda uxeS
damokidebulebasa da mimarTvas
(dayvireba, cinikuri da agdebuli
mimarTva), xolo 5 SemTxvevaSi amgvar
mopyrobas adgili hqonda sastumros
TanamSromlis, mikroavtobusis
mZRolisa da saswrafo samedicino
daxmarebis eqimis mxridan.
koronavirusis gavrcelebis
prevenciis mizniT gatarebuli RonisZiebebis
farglebSi, saqarTveloSi
dabrunebul moqalaqeebs,
sakarantine sivrceebSi ganawilebamde
uwevdaT saqarTvelos aeroportebSi
garkveuli droiT mocda.
wamebis prevenciis evropuli
komitetis normativiT, aseTi pirebi
uzrunvelyofili unda iyvnen
ZilisTvis Sesabamisi pirobebiT,
saTanadod mowyobili sapirfareSoTi
da saSxapiT. zedmetia imis dawera,
rom msgavsi ram saqarTvelos
aeroportebSi ar yofila. sufTa
haerze yoveldRiur gaseirnebaze,
sakvebiT da samedicino momsaxure-
32
32 N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
biT uzrunvelyofaze xom laparakic
zedmetia. aeroportSi arsebul
pirobebze, saxalxo damcvelis
angaraSSi, sakarantine sivrce-
Si ganTavsebul pirebTan Cawerili
interviuebis Sedegad, calkeul
SemTxvevebSi gamoikveTa saqarTvelos
aeroportebSi sazRvargareTidan
dabrunebuli moqalaqeebis
xangrZlivi droiT dayovnebis,
arasaTanado mocdis pirobebis,
sasmeli wylisa da sakvebis xelmisawvdomobis
problemebi.
91 gamokiTxulidan, vinc sazRvari
gadmokveTa, 41 pirs mouwia 1
saaTi da meti mosacdel sivrceSi
gatareba transportirebamde. maTgan
3 piri dayovnda 16 saaTi, 4 piri
_ 5-6 saaTi, 4 piri _ 4 saaTi, 24
piri _ 2-3 saaTi, 6 piri _ 1-2 saaTi.
8 respondentis ganmartebiT,
sadaxlos sasazRvro gamtar punqtSi
da Tbilisis aeroportSi ar
iyo sakmarisi mosasvenebeli skamebi
da 9 respondentis TqmiT, xalxis
didi raodenobiT erT sivrceSi
moTavsebis gamo SeuZlebeli iyo
distanciis dacva. amasTan, 3 SemTxvevaSi
(daaxloebiT 2 saaTis man-
Zilze) sadaxlos sasazRvro
gamtar punqtSi pirebi ganTavsebuli
iyvnen karavSi, sadac cioda da
ar iyo saZile pirobebi. 1 saaTze
meti xniT dayovnebul pirTagan 5
SemTxvevaSi ar iyo xelmisawvdomi
sasmeli wyali. 8 SemTxvevaSi ar iyo
xelmisawvdomi sakvebi, kerZod,
sadaxlos sasazRvro gamtar punqtSi
daaxloebiT 16-saaTiani mocdis
pirobebSi 3 SemTxvevaSi ar iyo
uzrunvelyofili kveba, amave punqtSi
1 pirs 4-saaTiani mocdis
pirobebSi da arc Semdgom transportirebisas
ar gadaeca sakvebi.
Tbilisis aeroportSi 4 respondentis
TqmiT, 4-5 saaTis dayovnebis
pirobebSi aseve ar iyo uzrunvelyofili
kveba. 2 SemTxvevaSi
talRa saqarTveloSi
gamoikveTa sapirfareSoTi sargeblobis
problema (fizikurad ar
iyo xelmisawvdomi).
bevri rom ar gavagrZeloT, axali
talRis SemTxvevaSi, mniSvnelovania
aeroportebsa da
sasazRvro gamtar punqtebSi gan-
Tavsdes sakmarisi raodenobis skamebi
da yvela mgzavri, moTxovnis
SemTxvevaSi, uzrunvelyon sasmeli
wyliTa da sapirfareSoTi. sircxvilia,
dRes rom amaze vwerT!
xolo xangrZlivi droiT dayovnebis
pirobebSi, damatebiT uzrunvelyon
sakvebiT.
55 SemTxvevaSi mgzavrebi gadaiyvanes
Sors mdebare sakarantine
sivrceSi. mgzavrobas 3 saaTze meti
dro dasWirda. 55-dan 10 respondentis
TqmiT gzaSi kveba ar iyo
uzrunvelyofili. 99 SemTxvevaSi
saWiroebebi ar hqoniaT mgzavrebs,
xolo 8 SemTxvevaSi mgzavrebs
saWiroebebi warmoeqmnaT, amaTgan
7-s daukmayofilda saWiroebebi _
2 pirs dagvianebiT daukmayofilda
sapirfareSos saWiroeba, xolo
1-s ar daukmayofilda _ guli ereoda
da ar gauCeres transporti.
rig SemTxvevaSi TiTo pirs 2-jer
an metjer mouwia mgzavroba.
112 respondentis gadmocemiT,
127 transportirebis SemTxvevidan
78 SemTxvevaSi mgzavroba iyo usafrTxo
da komfortuli, 14 SemTxvevaSi
mgzavroba ar iyo komfortuli
da usafrTxo. sakarantine
sivrceebSi myofi 112 piris
gamokiTxvis Sedegad dadginda,
rom sastumroebSi sacxovrebeli
pirobebi ZiriTadad kargi iyo.
erTeul SemTxvevebSi respondentebi
ukmayofilebas gamoxatavdnen
sastumroSi arsebul pirobebTan
dakavSirebiT. kerZod, gamokiTxuli
112 respondentidan mxolod 14
piri gamoxatavda ukmayofilebas
nomerSi arsebul pirobebTan
ar unda ganmeordes
is darRvevebi, rac
pirveli talRRis
dros gvqonda!
dakavSirebiT. magaliTad, rusTav-
Si mdebare sastumroSi ganTavsebuli
6 respondentis TqmiT, oTaxSi,
faqtobrivad, bneloda, iseTi susti
xelovnuri ganaTeba iyo, ar
hqondaT magida, sakvebs tumboze
an fanjris rafaze miirTmevdnen.
TbilisSi mdebare sastumroSi myofi
3 respondenti gamoxatavda
ukmayofilebas sastumros pirobebTan
dakavSirebiT, kerZod, 2 respondentis
TqmiT isini dasalagebel
oTaxSi moaTavses, xolo mesame
respondentis TqmiT is moTavsebuli
iyo mcire zomis (15 kv.m.-
mde) oTaxSi, sadac ar iyo rbili
aveji. im fonze, rom oTaxs ver tovebda,
ar hqonda aivani da raime saxis
aqtivobebs sastumro ar sTavazobda,
misTvis es iyo sruli koSmari.
marneulSi mdebare sastumroSi
respondentis yofnis 2 dRis
manZilze, misi TqmiT, aravin Sesula
oTaxis dasalageblad; mas
oTaxSi aseve ar hqonda wylis maduRara,
xolo cudi internetkav-
Siris gamo, praqtikulad, ver iyenebda
gare samyarosTan kavSiris
am saSualebas.
arada, saxelmwifosa da sastumros
Soris dadebuli xelSekrulebis
Tanaxmad, sakarantine sivrceebSi
myofi pirebis kveba unda
iyos samjeradi, razedac TiToeul
sastumros gamoyofili hqonda
Sesabamisi dRiuri Tanxa.
112 gamokiTxuli piridan mxolod
23 respondenti gamoxatavda
ukmayofilebas sastumroSi miwodebul
sakvebTan dakavSirebiT.
magaliTad, rusTavSi mdebare sastumroSi
myofi 6 respondentis
TqmiT, maTTvis sakvebi civi iyo da
arasakmarisi raodenobiT mihqondaT.
rom saWmeli ar hyofnidaT da
naxevrad mSivrebi rCebodnen.
respondentTa umravlesobis
gancxadebiT, samedicino personali
yoveldRiurad ukavSirdeboda
sakarantine sivrceSi myof pirebs
uSualo Semovlis an telefonis
saSualebiT da iRebdnen informacias
maTi janmrTelobis mdgomareobis
Sesaxeb. erT-erTi respondentis
TqmiT, qronikuli daavadebis
gamo esaWiroeboda medikamenti,
romlis maragic aRar hqonda
da moiTxova am medikamentis daniSvna,
magram mravaljeradi mcdelobebis
miuxedavad, eqims ver
daukavSirda, raTa forma N100/a
mieRo medikamentis SesaZenad. es
medikamenti mas saswrafod esaWiroeboda,
Tumca misTvis medikamentis
miwodeba moxda 3 dRis Semdeg,
isic ojaxis wevrebis mier.
meore SemTxvevaSi erT-erTma
respondentma medikamentebi moiTxova
arteriuli hipertenziis gamo,
romelic moTxovnidan 8 saaTis
Semdeg miawodes arasrulad. aseve
mis meuRles daniSnul medikamentebze
uTxres, rom Tavad SeeZinaT
da isini ojaxma uzrunvelyo.
ratom gadadga baTumis meri laSa komaxiZe?
rogorc mosalodneli iyo, baTumis meri gada-
xviCa mamulaZe
dga _ Tanamdebobis datovebis Sesaxeb gancxade-
ba laSa komaxiZem 16 ivliss dawera. man mediasTan
wasvlis mizezebze isaubra: aiZulebda Tu ara vinme mas gadadgomas? iTxovda
Tu ara „ocnebis” saarCevno siaSi moxvedras? Tumca bevr kiTxvaze amomwuravi
pasuxi mainc ver miviReT.
vin aris laSa komaxiZis Semcvleli ar-
Cil Ciqovani? rogor afasebs sakrebulos
deputatebis nawili baTumis mer laSa
komaxiZis gadadgomas? „qronika+” amis
Sesaxeb ramdenime deputats esaubra:
levan anTaZe _ „erTiani nacionaluri”
moZraoba:
_ TviTmmarTvelobaze saubari zedmetia.
es aris TamaSi, e. w. triuki, romelic biZina
ivaniSvils xSirad axasiaTebs. laSa komaxiZe,
simarTle giTxraT, ufro fxiani megona.
rac Seexeba Ciqovans, es aris Cveulebrivi
klerki, romelic aparatis ufrosad muSaobda.
Cveulebrivi biurokratia. ise daniSnes,
TiTqos arCevnebi ar unda Caataron.
vfiqrob, es didxans ver gagrZeldeba. faqtobrivad,
am gadawyvetilebiT TviTmmar-
Tveloba daasamares baTumSi.
N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
mirdat qamadaZe _ „erTiani naciona-
luri moZraoba”:
_ am yvelafris ukan vin dgas konkretulad,
ver getyviT. vfiqrob, es meorexarisxovania.
mTavaria, rom am SemTxvevaSi oligarqiul
mmarTvelobas sistemuri problema
axlavs, radgan pirdapiri wesiT arCeuli
mers uSveben Tanamdebobidan ise, rom komentaris
gakeTebas da am xnis ganmvalobaSi
mediasTan gamoCenas ukrZalavdnen! es niSnavs,
rom am qveyanaSi arCeuli meri iqca
formalobad. virCevT mers, magram Semdgom
es merebi ise midian, rom sazogadoebis
winaSe angariSvaldebulebas ar grZnoben,
ganmartebasac ar akeTeben da Semdgom modian
adamianebi, romlebsac naklebi legitimacia
aqvT.
beso gogotiSvili _ „qarTuli ocneb-
is” baTumis sakrebulos wevri:
_ baTumis ukve gadamdgarma merma laSa
komaxiZem bevri ram gaakeTa qalaqisTvis da
im proeqtebs, romelic man daiwyo, Ciqovani
aucileblad miiyvans bolomde. Ciqovanis
periodSi infrastruqtura ufro da ufro
win waiwevs.
laSa komaxiZis gadadgomasTan dakavSirebiT
bevri kiTxvaa, magram imaze mets ver
vityvi, rac laSa komaxiZem Tavis brifingze
Tqva. mxolod davamateb, rom Zalian kompetenturia.
rac Seexeba mis saqmianobas 3
wlis ganmavlobaSi, namdvilad STambeWdavi
proeqtebi iyo, RonisZiebebi, insfrastruqturis
mxriv wingadadgmuli nabijebi vixileT
_ dResdReobiT 19 misamarTze mimdinareobs
quCebis reabilitacia. gamovyofdi
ardaganis tbis mimdebare saniaRvre satumbi
sadguris mSeneblobas, romelic
qalaqs uxvi naleqisgan gantvirTavs; agreTve
gamovyofdi xelimisawvdomi sacxovrebeli
saxlis ukve bolo proeqts, romelic
adre Zvelma merma daiwyo da laSa komaxiZem
es proeqti kargad daasrula. gamovyofdi,
agreTve, „Seni idea baTums”,
romelic
naxevari milioni lariT finansdeba da
sadac baTumSi registrirebul uSualod
yvela moqalaqes SeuZlia miiRos monawileoba.
didi problemaa garemovaWreoba,
romelic laSas damsaxurebT aRikveTa. is
pandemiis dros Zalian bevr ojaxs exmareboda.
rac Seexeba Ciqovans, mas wlebia, vicnob
_ is SesaniSnavi adamiani da menejeria.
mas didi gamocdileba aqvs sajaro samsaxurSi.
arCil Ciqovans sakuTari, gansxvavebuli
xedva eqneba. velodebiT da viciT,
rom laSa komaxiZis dawyebul proeqtebs
bolomde miiyvans da axal ideebs SemogvTavazebs.
SegaxsenebT: laSa komaxiZe baTumis
merad 2017 wels airCies. mas 27 852 ba-
Tumelma amomrCevelma dauWira mxari.
uflebamosilebis vada 2021 wels ewureboda.
laSa komaxiZe, qveynis masStabiT, meeqvse
arCeuli meria, vinc Tanamdeboba datova.
vin aris arCil Ciqovani?
2013 wlamde igi Zalovan uwyebebSi mu-
Saobda. 2013 wlidan Cndeba sajaro samsaxurSi.
aWaris saavtomobilo gzebs swored
maSin xelmZRvanelobda, roca auditma 2016-
2017 wlebSi uwyebis mier Catarebuli samuSaoebi
da dagebuli gzebi uxarisxod miiCnia.
uwyebis misamarTiT, gaflangvasa da
uflebamosilebis borotad gamoyenebis
faqtze, prokuraturam daiwyo kidec gamo-
Zieba, Tumca aranairi Sedegi am dromde ar
damdgara.
33
599 26 83 83
mogexsenebaT, 4 ivliss aSS-ma
morigjer izeima damoukideblobis dRe. raoden paradoqsulic
ar unda iyos, am dRes amerikis SeerTebuli Statebis mo-
qalaqeebTan erTad msoflios sxvadasxva qveynis moqalaqeebic
zeimoben. zeimoben milocvebiT, aivnebze droSebis gadmofen-
iT, zeimoben aTasgvari sxvadasxva RonisZiebiT.
prezident trampis pirobebSi
umuSevrobis mniSvnelovanma klebam,
aSS-is ekonomikis zrdam arnaxul
niSnulebs miaRwia. magram wels aSSs
mZime dReebi udgas. koronavirusiT
miyenebuli zianis fonze Cven
vakvirdebiT movlenebs, romelic
antirasistuli moZraobis ideaSia
SefuTuli da, realurad, sin-
Tezirebul marqsistul-faSistur
konteqsts atarebs. is, rac aSS-Si
xdeba, ar aris ideologiebis Widili,
es aris Zaladobis demonstrireba,
es aris sxva ram, romelic gonierebiTa
da logikiT ver ixsneba.
magaliTisTvis isic kmara, rom
„areulobebis” pirvel dReebSi
prezidentma obamam sxva veranairi
moTxovna ver wamoayena, garda
policiis mier Savkaniani mosaxleobisadmi
ufro meti loialobis
gamoCenisa. paralelurad ki uflebebisTvis
„mebrZoli” aqtivistebi
angreven Zeglebs _ maTi gaazrebiT
monaTmfllobelebis Zeglebs. mxolod
ramdenime faqti:
* san-francisko, rasizmTan da
monobis winaaRmdeg „mebrZolebma”
wiTlad (sisxlisfrad) SeRebes arc
meti, arc naklebi, servantesis Zegli.
ra unda mosTxovo brbos an maT
winamZRolebs, romlebmac ar ician
da arc smeniaT, rom servantesi afrikaSi
Tavad gaxldaT 5 weli mona
da 4-jer gamoiqca. an ician amaT,
rom alaJirSi „maliarebis” winaprebi
aTasobiT „TeTrkaniani”(!) moniT
vaWrobdnen? ara, ar ician!
* niu-iorkSi brbom abolicionisturi
moZraobis lideris, Savkaniani
frederik daglasis Zegli
daamxo _ gaanadgura. mizezi: monaTmflobeli
iyoo, gana TeTrkanian,
aramed Savkanian monebs flobda,
awamebda, yidda, SimSiliT klavdao.
am brbos uamrav wevrs daglasis
fotoc ar unaxavs, Torem kanis
fersac gaarkvevda misas da cxadia,
masze arc araferi gaugia, Torem
ecodineboda, rom igi mTeli cxovreba
monobas ebrZoda;
* aseve brbom gaanadgura oregonis
StatSi sasamarTlos Senobebi.
bevrgan dawves sxvadasxva dawesebuleba.
es brbo gansakuTrebul
„mokrZalebas” gamoxatavs „naikis”
mimarT, Tu sadme naxaven maRazias,
egreve lewaven da gaaqvT nadavli.
uamravi sxva magaliTi Tavadac
iciT ara mxolod aSS-Si, aramed
msoflios sxvadasxva qveyanaSi.
am fonze kidev ufro did gamo-
Tayvanebulobad Cans sentimentebi
CagrulTa mimarT. magaliTad,
ideologiuri datvirTvis matarebeli,
anu policiis Temas rom ver gascdnen:
sietlSi qalaqis sabWom miiRo
dadgenileba policiis dafinansebas
50%-iT Semcrebis Sesaxeb.
SemoiRo programa „warmovidginoT
cxovreba policiis gareSe”. es is
sietlia, areulobebis pikSi saxalxo
respublika rom Seiqmna da proletariatis
beladis, leninis Zegls
civ niavs ar akarebdnen. yvelam naxeT
kadrebi, rogor ukocnian fexebs
winaparTa codvebis gamosasyidad
Savkanianebs TeTrkanianebi? isic
gaigeT xom, erT-erT taZarSi freska
rom gadaRebes saswrafod da
macxovari uceb Savkaniani rom gaxda?
yvelaze metad gansacvifrebeli
mainc is iyo, rac portlendSi moxda
_ rasizmTan brZolis egidiT gulanTebulma
brbom, arc meti arc
naklebi, losis qandakeba daarbia.
34
goCa mircxulava
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
losis, xalxno! gadavqeqe yvelafrferi
internetSi, vis ar vkiTxe, ra
codva miuZRoda am cxovels Savkanianebis
winaaRmdeg, magram veravin
veraferi miTxra. diax, am dromde
ver gavarkvie, romel rasistul
qmedebebSia es cxoveli SemCneuli.
ras vizamT? _ adamianebis
ugunureba usazRvroa. calke sakiTxia
am yvelaferSi, anu imaSi, rac
aSS-sa da gadareul msoflioSi xdeba,
ra aris hibriduli omis nawili
(Tu mTeli ara), magram ufro metad
dasafiqrebelia, rogoria am yvelaferSi
„swavluli” amerikelebis
wili? magaliTisTvis, rogorc Cven-
Tan ityvian, gagania areulobisas,
politikuri oponenti, yofili
vice-prezidenti da momavalSi
prezidentobis msurveli jo baidenis
gancxadeba: „aSS-Si koronavirusiT
120 milioni adamiani daiRupa.
ra ginda, rom gaakeTo? ai,
metyviT, ra kavSiriSia? OK, aranair-
Si, ra azri aqvs ganmartebebs”.
* * *
da... 2020 wlis 3 ivliss raSmoris
mTis (sadac oTxi prezidentis saxea
gamokveTili) Ziras, aSS-is prezidentma,
donald trampma, istoriuli
sityva warmoTqva. es aris 21-e
saukunis msoflio masStabis politikur-ritorikuli
xelovnebis
Sedevri. yovel SemTxvevaSi, piradad
me, uinston CerCilis Sedevrebis
Semdeg, aseTi ar wamikiTxavs.
es sityva umniSvnelovanesia
saqarTvelos moqalaqeebisTvisac,
sakuTari qveynisadmi, misi istoriisa
da tradiciebisadmi damokidebulebis
gansasazRvrad. es sityva
aseve umniSvnelovanesia, Tundac
aSS-is ideis, fenomenis, misi istoriis
gasaazreblad. da es sityva umniSvnelovanesia
Cveni politikosebisTvisac,
romlebsac aseve aqvT
valdebuleba eris _ saxelmwifos
winaSe.
maS, ase! im udidesi gamowveveb-
is fonze, rac dRes aSS-s udgas,
vnaxoT, ras fiqrobs da acxadebs
aSS-is prezidenti donald trampi
(araoficialuri
Targmani).
gaiTvaliswineT, araviTari mniSvneloba
ar aqvs, vis moswons prez-
identi da vis _ ara. vin eTanxmeba
mis politikas da vin _ ara. am sityvaSi
mniSvnelovania damokidebuleba
sakuTari saxelmwifos, mo-
qalaqeebis, istoriis mimarT:
„didi madloba. gubernatoro
noem, mdivano bernhardt, Cven ar
gveswavleba am yovelives dafaseba.
kongresis wevrebo, pativcemulo
stumrebo da gansakuTrebiT salami
Sen, samxreT dakota. am SabaT-kviris
dawyebisas, 4 ivliss, pirveli ledi
da me yovel Tqvengans vusurvebT
bednier damoukideblobis dRes.
madloba Tqven.
neba mogveciT, Cveni aRiareba
gamovxatoT armiis, samxreT dakotis
erovnuli gvardiis sahaero
danayofis, aseve Cveni sahaero
Zalebis mimarT, romlebmac amerikuli
samxedro-sahaero Zalebis didebuli
demonstrirebiT didi
STagonebiT agvavses da rasakvirvelia,
rogorc yovelTvis Cveni madliereba
ekuTvniT legendarul da
niWier Blue Angels-ebs. Cveni didi madloba
Tqven. aseve didi madloba
Cvens Cinebul veteranebs, samar-
Taldamcvelebs, maSvelTa korpussa
da eqimebs, meddebsa da mecnierebs,
romlebic dauRalavad
aSS _ gamowvevebi da
Sromoben virusis mokvdinebisTvis.
isini Tavgadadebulad Sromoben.
minda, guliTadi madloba vuTxra
maT. Cven aseve madlobelni varT
Tqveni Statis kongresis delegaciisa.
senatoro jon Tiun, gmadlobT.
senatoro maik raunds, gmadlobT,
maik. aseve Tqvenc, kongresmeno dastin
jonson, salami dasti, gmadlob.
da yvela sxvas, romlebic dRes sa-
Ramos kongresidan aq, CvenTan arian,
gmadlobT mosvlisTvis. Cven namdvilad
vafasebT amas.
ar arsebobs amaze kargi adgili
amerikis damoukideblobis sazeimod
aRniSvnisTvis, vidre am zviadi,
gasaocrad didebuli mTisa da
imavdroulad yvela drois yvelaze
didi amerikelebis Zeglis Ziras.
dRes pativs mivagebT jorj vaSingtonis,
Tomas jefersonis, abraham
linkolnisa da tedi ruzveltis
anderZebs. me aq var, rogorc prezidenti,
raTa qveynisa da msoflios
winaSe ganvacxado: es Zegli arasdros
iqneba Sebilwuli, es gmirebi
arasdros iqnebian Seuracxyofilni,
maTi anderZi arasdros iqneba ganadgurebuli,
maTi miRwevebi arasdros
miecema daviwyebas da raSmoris mTa
mudam idgeba, rogorc maradiuli
xarki Cveni winaprebisadmi da Cveni
Tavisuflebisadmi. dRes saRamos
Cven SevikribeT, raTa eri-saxelmwifos
umniSvnelovanesi dRe, 1776
wlis 4 ivlisi, aRvniSnoT. am sityvebze
yvela amerikelis guli siamayem
unda aavsos, yovelma amerikulma
ojaxma es dRe sixaruliT unda izeimos
da yovel amerikel patriots
sixaruli unda moicavdes, ramdenadac
isini cxovroben msoflio istoriaSi
yvelaze warCinebul qveyanaSi,
da male is ufro didi iqneba,
vidre odesme yofila.
Cvenma damfuZneblebma daiwyes
ara marto revolucia samTavrobo
doneze, aramed revolucia samarTlianobis,
Tanasworobis, Tavisuflebisa
da keTildReobis mimarTulebiT.
arc erT eri-saxelmwifos ar
gaukeTebia imaze meti kacobriobis
winsvlisTvis, vidre amerikis Seer-
Tebul Statebs, da arc erT xalxs
ar gaukeTebia kacobriobis winsvlisTvis
imaze meti, vidre Cveni
didi eri-saxelmwifos moqalaqeebs.
yovelive es SesaZlebeli gaxda im 56
patriotis simamaciT, romelic 244
wlis winaT Seikriba filadelfiaSi
da xeli moawera damoukideblobis
deklaracias. maT maradiuli gaxades
RvTiuri WeSmariteba, romelmac
sabolood Secvala msoflio, rodesac
ganacxades: „yvela adamiani
erTmaneTis Tanasworad Seiqmna”. es
ukvdavi sityvebi saTaves miscems
Tavisuflebis SeuCerebel svlas.
Cveni damfuZneblebi mamacurad acxadebdnen,
rom Cven yvelani erTnairi
RvTaebrivi uflebebiT varT aR-
Wurvilni, romelic Cven zeciurma
dambadebelma mogvaniWa, da Cven
imas, rac RmerTma gviboZa, wasarTmevad
aravis davanebebT.
1776 weli iyo mwvervali dasavluri
civilizaciis aTaswleulebisa
da triumfi ara marto sulis,
aramed sibrZnis, filosofiisa da
gonebis. da mainc Cveni dRevandeli
Sexvedrisas izrdeba safrTxe, romelic
emuqreba yovelgvar siqveles,
romlisTvisac Cveni winaprebi medgrad
ibrZodnen da sisxls Rvridnen,
raTa is daecvaT. Cveni eri-saxelmwifo
mowmea daundobeli kampaniisa,
romlis mizania Cveni istoriis waSla,
Cveni gmirebis daknineba ciliswamebiT,
Cveni faseulobebis mospoba
da Cveni Svilebis indoqtrinacia.
mZvinvare brboebi cdiloben
Zeglebis gadmogdebas kvarcxlbekebidan,
Cveni yvelaze wminda Zeglebis
dazianebasa da Cvens qalaqebSi
Zaladobrivi danaSaulobebis tal-
Ris agorebas. am adamianTagan bevrma
arc ki icis, ratom sCadis amas,
Tumca zogierTma icis. isini fiqroben,
rom amerikeli xalxi sustia,
uniaTo da iolad daqvemdebarebadia;
magram ara, amerikeli xalxi
Zlieri da amayia, igi ar dauSvebs,
rom Cveni qveyana misi faseulobebiT,
istoriiTa da kulturiT mas
waarTvan.
maTi erTi-erTi politikuri iaraRia
kulturis amoZirkva, adamianebis
gandevna maTi samuSao adgilebidan,
sxvagvarad moazrovneebis
daSineba da yvelas damorCileba,
visac gansxvavebuli Sexedulebani
aqvs. es aris zustad totalitarizmis
ganmarteba da es aris Cveni kulturisTvis
da faseulobebisTvis
sruliad ucxo, misi adgili saer-
Tod ar aris amerikis SeerTebul
StatebSi.
es Setevaa Cvens Tavisuflebaze,
maT surT Cveni SesaniSnavi Tavisuflebis
SeCereba, magram isini Tavad
iqnebian Zalian male SeCerebulebi.
Cven am saSiS moZraobas vamxelT,
Cveni eris Svilebs davicavT am
radikaluri Tavdasxmebisgan da
davicavT Cvens sayvarel amerikul
cxovrebis wess. Cvens skolebSi, Cveni
gazeTebis redaqciebsa da TviT
Cveni sawarmoebis gamgeobebis doneze
arsebobs axali, memarcxene fa-
Sizmi, romelic oponentisgan absolutur
loialurobas moiTxovs.
Tuki Tqven mis enaze ar saubrobT,
mis ritualebs ar asrulebT, mis
mantrebs ar imeorebT da mis
cnebebs ar mihyvebiT Tqven moyvebiT
cenzuraSi, ganidevnebiT, aRmoCndebiT
Sav siaSi, daiwyeba Tqveni
devna da daisjebiT. es CvenTan ar
moxdeba.
Tavs nu movityuebT. es memarcxene
kulturuli revolucia miznad
isaxavs amerikuli revoluciis
damxobas. amiT isini daamxoben im
civilizacias, romelmac miliardobiT
adamiani gadaarCina siRaribisgan,
avadmyofobisgan, Zaladobisgan
da SimSilisgan da kacobrioba
aiyvana miRwevebis, aRmoCenebisa da
progresis axal etapze. es rom Se-
Zlon, isini mzad arian yoveli Zeglis,
yoveli simbolosa da Cveni
erovnuli memkvidreobis mogonebebis
aRmosafxvrelad.
es WeSmaritad asea. amitomac me
saqmeSi CavrTe federaluri samar-
Taldamcveli uwyeba Cveni Zeglebis
dasacavad. marbielebsa da damna-
Saveebs kanonis mTeli simkacriT davakavebT.
me maT madlobas vuxdi. mixaria
cnoba imis Sesaxeb, rom federaluri
policiis agentebma guSin daakaves
didi endriu jeksonis Zeglze Tavdasxmis
winamZRoli vaSington DC-Si
da masTan erTad asobiT damnaSave.
Tanaxmad axali regulaciebisa, romlebsac
sxva kanonebTan erTad wina
kviras movawere xeli, federaluri
an sxva rigis Zeglebis damzianeblebs,
sul cota, 10-wliani patimroba
moeliT da amaSi Sedis, bunebrivia,
Cveni SesaniSnavi raSmoris mTa.
Cvens xalxs kargi mexsiereba aqvs.
igi jorj vaSingtonis, abraham
linkolnis, ulis grantisa da sxvebis
Zeglebis damsxvrevas arasodes
daiviwyebs. Zaladobrivi qaosi,
romelic Cven vnaxeT qalaqebsa da
quCebSi, romelic nebismier SemTxvevaSi
marTulia liberal-demokratebis
mier, aris prognozirebadi
Sedegi mravalwliani eqstremaluri
indoqtrinaciisa da mikerZoebulobisa
ganaTlebaSi, Jurnalistikis
sferosa da sxva kulturul dawesebulebebSi.
sazogadoebisa da bunebis
yvela kanonTan mimarTebiT Cvens
bavSvebs aswavlian sZuldeT saku-
Tari qveyana da swamdeT, rom gmire-
34 N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
donald trampis istoriuli sityva
bi, romelTac is aages, TaRliTebi
da damnaSaveebi iyvnen. amerikuli istoriis
radikaluri Tvalsazrisi
aris sicrueebis bade, sadac yvela
perspeqtiva daSorebulia, yvela
siqvele Sefarulia, yvela motivi
ukuRmaa Setrialebuli, yoveli
faqti damaxinjebulia, yoveli nakli
utrirebulia, vidre istoria ar
iqneba sruliad gawmendili da faqtebi
ise damaxinjebuli, rom veRaravin
icnos. es moZraoba xSirad Tavs
esxmis raSmoris mTis istoriul
pirTa memkvidreobas. igi talaxs
esvris xsovnas vaSingtonze, jefersonze,
linkolnsa da ruzveltze.
dRes Cvens istoriasa da mis dask-
varT, Cven Cveni qveynis mamas, jorj
vaSingtons, pativs mivagebT da
davafasebT. igi arasdros iqneba
gankveTili, gauqmebuli da rac yvelaze
mTavaria, daviwyebuli.
Tomas jefersoni _ didi Tomas
jefersoni 33 wlisa iyo, rodesac
CrdiloeTidan pensilvaniaSi gaemgzavra.
breivoris saxiT Seqmna sakacobrio
istoriis udidesi saunje,
damoukideblobis deklaracia. manve
Seqmna virjiniis konstituciis
monaxazi da aseve virjiniis wesdeba
religiuri TavisuflebisTvis, Cveni
pirveli konstituciis damatebis
erTgvari modeli. mas Semdeg, rac
man imsaxura, rogorc pirvelma sa-
cis Semoteva da piketi.
linkolnma moigo samoqalaqo
omi. man gamosca emansipaciis proklamaciis
ganacxadi, man ganixila
me-13 damatebiTi debuleba, riTac
monoba samudamod mospo da sabolood
mas sicocxlis fasad daujda
es gadamWreli qmedebebi, Cveni
eri-saxelmwifosa da kavSiris SesanarCuneblad
ganxorcielebuli. vidre
cocxlebi varT, Cven, amerikelebi,
daviwyebas ar mivcemT prezident
abraham linkolnis xsovnasa da
pativs mivagebT mas.
Teodor ruzveltma gaaTvalsa-
Cinova dauokebeli ndoba Cveni
erovnuli kulturisa da identobis
Cagvrisa da gamijvnis adgilad
gadaaqcevda. maT surT, rom dagvadumon,
magram Cven ar davdumdebiT.
me madlobas gixdiT, did madlobas!
Cven simarTles bodiSis moxdis
gareSe sruli moculobiT warmovadgenT.
Cven vacxadebT, rom amerikis
SeerTebuli Statebi yvelaze samarTliani
da gansakuTrebuli erisaxelmwifoa
aqamde dedamiwaze arsebulTa
Soris. Cven amayni varT im
faqtis gamo, rom Cveni qveyana iudeur-qristianul
principebzea
dafuZnebuli da Cven gvesmis, rom
am faseulobebma mSvidobisa da samarTlianobis
saqme mTel msofli-
Sirebs da Cvenc _ erTmaneTTan. maTi
mizani ar aris ukeTesi amerika, maTi
mizania amerikis dasruleba.
mis adgilas maT surT Zalaufleba
sakuTari TavisTvis, magram
ise, rogorc patriotebi gasul
saukuneSi amas moimoqmedebdnen, amerikeli
xalxi maT gadaudgeba aqeTken
mimaval gzaze da Cven swrafad
da Rirseulad gavimarjvebT. Cven
arasodes davuSvebT, rom amerikis
gmirebi maT Cveni kvarcxlbekebidan
an Cveni gulebidan daamxon, amoagdon.
amxoben ra vaSingtons an jefersons,
am radikalebs surT im memkvidreobis
damxoba, rasac xsenebulma
adamianebma TavianTi sicocxle
vniT Sejamebas Tavis marTebul adgils
mivuCenT.
vidre es figurebi qvaSi gamaradiuldebodnen,
isini iyvnen amerikeli
goliaTebi sisxliTa da xorciT,
galanturi mamakacebi, romelTa
uSiSarma saqmeebma sakacobrio progresi
samyarosTvis umagaliTod
didi naxtomiT win waswies. dRes sa-
Ramos Tqven da, upirveles yovlisa,
axalgazrdebs mogiyvebiT am didkacebis
namdvil istorias.
jorj vaSingtoni Tavidan fexebamde
amerikeli xalxis siZlieres,
momxibvlelobasa da Rirsebas warmoadgenda.
moxalise moqalaqeTa da
glexTa mcire razmisgan man Seqmna
kontinenturi armia da Semoikriba
isini Tavis garSemo, raTa dapirispireboda
msoflios uZlieres
samxedro Zalas. rva wlis ganmalobaSi,
ueli forjis sastik zamTar-
Si, sapasuxo dartymebTan erTad,
gauZRva am patriotebs saboloo
triumfisken. rodesac armia 1776
wlisTvis aTas kacamde Semcirda,
rodesac damarcxeba sruliad
gardauvali Canda, misi jaris nar-
Cenma gabeda da delavaris mdinare
gadalaxa. maT gaiares 9 mili yinva-
Si da sibneleSi, bevri Ceqmis gare-
Sec iyo darCenili da sisxlis nakvalevs
tovebda Tovlze. diliT
maT gamarjveba moipoves trenton-
Si, mas Semdeg rac iorkTaunSi msoflios
uZlieres saxelmwifos kapitulacia
aiZules. generali vaSingtoni
pretenzias Zalauflebaze ki
ar acxadebda, aramed, rogorc ker-
Zo piri, daubrunda maunT vernons.
rodesac mas xelmeored mouxmes,
igi sakonstitucio konvents uZRveboda
filadelfiaSi da erTxmad
airCies pirvel prezidentad. rodesac
igi ori saxelisuflebo vadis
Semdeg gadadga, Tavisi yofili mowinaaRmdege,
mefe jorji, Tavisi
drois yvelaze did adamianad
daasaxela. igi dRemde pirvelia
Cvens gulebSi, radgan iqamde, vidre
amerikelebs TavianTi qveyana uy-
gareo saqmeTa ministrma da Semdeg
viceprezidentma, igi prezidentad
airCies. man ubrZana amerikel meomrebs
barberis mekobreTa ganadgureba.
luizianis Sesyidvis Semdeg
man Cveni eri-saxelmwifos farTobi
gaaormaga, man cnobili aRmomCenebi
luisi da klarki gaagzavna dasavleTiT
gabedul eqspediciaSi wynari
okeanisken. igi iyo arqiteqtori, gamomgonebeli,
diplomati, swavluli,
msoflios erT-erTi udidesi universitetis
damaarsebeli da Tavisuflebis
mgznebare damcveli. amerikelebi
yovelTvis aRtacebiT moixsenieben
amerikuli Tavisuflebis
Semoqmeds, Tomas jefersons da mas
arc Cven daviviwyebT odesme.
abraham linkolni _ Cveni eris
mxsneli, iyo TviTnaswavli iuristi,
romelic amerikis sazRvarTan axlos,
qoxSi gaizarda. rogorc pirveli
respublikeli prezidenti, igi
manamde SeumCneveli safexuridan
maRal Tanamdebobebze aRzevda,
radgan monobis winaaRmdeg mimarTuli
misi Sexedulebebi uZlieresi da
cxadi iyo... man xeli moawera transkontinentuli
rkinigzis mSeneblobis
kanons. man xeli moawera houmstedis
kanons, rac zogierT gansakuTrebul
swavluls mieca, gansazRvra
ra Cveulebriv, rom rigiTma
moqalaqem Tavisufali miwebi miiRos
amerikis dasavleTSi yvelgan
dasasaxleblad. da igi win uZRoda
qveyanas Tavisi istoriis ubneles
periodSi, sadac yvelas TiTo misxals
aZlevda Tavisi Zalisas, imaSi
dasarwmuneblad, rom xalxis xelisufleba
_ xalxis mxardaWeriT
da xalxisave mxardamWeri _ Tavadac
ar damTavrebuliyo. igi iyo mTavarsardali
amerikuli armiisa sisxliani
samoqalaqo omis dros, romelmac
ixsna Cveni kavSiri da monobis
ubedureba mospo. 600 000 adamiani
daiRupa am omSi, 20.000-ze meti mokvda
da daiWra mxolod erT dRes antietamSi,
geTisburgSi. 157 wlis win
kavSirma mxned moigeria 15 000 ka-
mimarT. igi xedavda amerikuli misiis
gansakuTrebul sidiades msoflioSi
da iyo misi mimdevari mTeli
Tavisi energiiTa da mgznebarebiT.
rogorc ufrosi leitenanti amerika-espaneTis
omSi, igi meTaurobda
cnobil raf raiderebs, mteri rom
daemarcxebina san-xuanis borcvze.
rogorc niu-iork-sitis policiis
ufrosma, man amoZirkva korufcia,
Semdeg msaxurobda niu-iorkis gubernatoris
Tanamdebobaze, amis Semdeg
gaxda viceprezidenti da bolos,
42 wlis asakSi, igi gaxda amerikis
SeerTebuli Statebis yvela
drois yvelaze axalgazrda prezidenti.
man Cveni yvelaze didi axali
samxedro-sazRvao floti mTel
dedamiwaze gauSva, raTa euwyebina
amerikis, rogorc msoflio zesaxelmwifos
gamoCena asparezze. man
Cven bevri axali erovnuli parki
gvaCuqa, maT Soris, grand qenioni.
man dasabami daudo gasaocari panamis
arxis mSeneblobas da is erTaderTi
pirovnebaa, vinc miiRo rogorc
nobelis premia mSvidobis dargSi,
ise _ kongresis sapatio medali.
is srulyofili gansxeuleba iyo
amerikuli Tavisuflebisa. amerikeli
xalxi arasdros Seeleva Teodor
ruzveltis mamac, mSvenier da
dauokebel suls.
arc erT moZraobas, romelic
ecdeba, es Rirebuli amerikuli
memkvidreoba gaauqmos, gulSi ar
eqneba siyvaruli amerikisadmi. es
SeuZlebelia! verc erTi adamiani,
vinc dums am brwyinvale memkvidreobis
ganadgurebisas, ver gagviZRveba
ukeTesi momavlisaken. radikaluri
ideologia, romelic utevs
Cvens qveyanas, socialuri samarTlianobis
droSis qveS moiwevs, sinamdvileSi
ki igi siamovnebiT daangrevda
rogorc samarTlianobas,
ise _ sazogadoebas. igi samarTlianobas
aqcevda dayofisa da SurisZiebis
iaraRad da Cvens Tavisufal
da integrirebul sazogadoebas
oSi dramatulad win waswies. Cven
viciT, rom amerikuli ojaxi amerikuli
cxovrebis fundamentia. Cven
vaRiarebT yvela eri-saxelmwifos
uflebasa da zneobriv movaloebas,
daicvan sakuTari sazRvrebi da Cven
vagebT kedels. Cven vixsenebT imas,
rom mTavrobebi muSaoben sakuTari
mosaxleobis usafrTxoebisa da bednierebis
dasacavad. eri-saxelmwifo,
upirveles yovlisa, sakuTar moqalaqeebze
unda zrunavdes. es
droulia. Cven gvwams Sansebis Tanabroba,
Tanasworoba da erTnairad
mopyroba yvela rasis, warmomavlobis,
religiisa da sarwmunoebis moqalaqebis
mimarT. yvela bavSvi, ra
ferisac ar unda iyos is, dabadebuli
Tu daubadebeli, aris RvTis
wminda xatad Seqmnili.
Cven gvsurs Tavisufali da Ria
debati, ar gvsurs enobrivi kodi da
aseve raime uaryofa kulturis mimarT.
Cven vaRiarebT tolerantobas,
ara gansjiT wanamZRvrebs. Cven
mxars vuWerT gambedav mamakacebsa
da qalebs samarTaldamcvel struqturaSi.
Cven arasodes gavauqmebT
Cvens policias da arc Cveni konstituciis
did meore debulebas, rac
uflebas gvaZlevs, viqonioT iara-
Ri da vataroT is. Cven gvwams, rom
Cvens bavSvebs unda vaswavloT TavianTi
samSoblis siyvaruli, TavianTi
istoriis dafaseba da Cveni
didi amerikuli droSis pativiscema.
Cven vdgavarT medgrad, amayad da
muxls moviyriT yovladZlieri RmerTis
winaSe. esaa, rac Cven varT.
esaa, risic gvwams da esaa is faseulobebi,
romlebic win gagviZRvebian
ukeTesi da ufro diadi momavlisaken.
isini, romlebic cdiloben
amoZirkvon Cveni memkvidreoba,
surT rom Cven, amerikelebma, daviviwyoT
Cveni siamaye da Rirseba ise,
rom veRar SevZloT amerikis bedSi
garkveva. amxoben ra 1776 wlis gmirebs,
isini cdiloben siyvarulisa da
erTgulebis kavSirebis mospobas,
romelic Cvens qveyanasTan gvakav-
Seswires, raTa gaemarjvebinaT samoqalaqo
omSi, isini waSlidnen mogonebas,
ramac is jariskacebi STaagona
sikvdilze wasuliyvnen, rodesac
isini respublikis sabrZolo
himns mRerodnen: „rogorc is mokvda,
rom wminda-eyo vaJkacebi, aseve
dagvacaleT movkvdeT, raTa adamianebi
gavaTavisufloT, maSin rodesac
ufali Tavis svlas ganagrZobs”.
isini mospobdnen principebs, ramac
daasrula monoba da mTel msoflioSi
es boroti intituti gaauqma,
rac tanjavda kacobriobas araerTi
saukune Tu aTaswleuli. Cveni mowinaaRmdegeebi
daxevdnen im dokumentebs,
romelSic martin luTer kingma
Tavisi ocneba gamoxata, rac safuZlad
daedo samarTliani samoqalaqo
uflebebisTvis mebrZol
moZraobas. isini mospobdnen Sexedulebebs,
kulturasa da identobas,
romelmac amerika aqcia dedamiwis
istoriaSi yvelaze cocxal da
tolerantul sazogadoebad. Cemo
amerikelo Tanamoqalaqeno, droa,
visaubroT xmamaRla da mtkiced,
raTa davicvaT Cveni qveynis mTlianoba!
droa, Cvenma politikosebma mouxmon
Cvens amerikel winamorbedTa
simamaces da simtkices! droa! droa,
gavSaloT Cveni droSebi da davicvaT
am didebuli qveynis yvela rasis,
yvela qalaqis, yvela nawilis
moqalaqeebi! Cveni Rirsebis saxeliT,
Cveni bavSvebis saxeliT, Cveni
erTianobis saxeliT unda davicvaT
Cveni istoria, Cveni memkvidreoba da
Cveni didi gmirebi. dRes saRamos aq,
Cvens winamorbedTa Tvalwin, amerikelebi
xelaxla acxadeben, rogorc
es 244 wlis winaT moimoqmedes,
rom Cven aravis mivcemT saSualebas,
tiranuli meTodebiT mogvepyros,
dagvamciros da ar mivcemT borot
adamianebs Cveni daSinebis saSualebas.
es ar moxdeba!
gagrZeleba 37-e gv.
N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
35
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nene injgia
591 71 39 98
qveyanaSi Seqmnil viTarebaze,
mimdinare politikur proceseb-
sa da 2020 wlis saparlamento
arCevnebSi axalgazrdebis CarTulobaze
„qronika+” rubrika „axalgazrda
politikosebSi” „Tavis-
ufali demokratebis” axalgazr-
duli organizaciis wevr giorgi
qitiaSvils esaubra:
_ giorgi, ra kiTxvebi gaqvs
giorgi SaqaraSvilis mkvlelobis
saqmis gamoZiebis Sesaxeb?
_ pirvel rigSi, ojaxs tragedias
vusamZimreb da mgonia, rom am
saqmesTan dakavSirebiT Zalian bevri
kiTxvis niSani arsebobs. saxelmwifo
jerovnad ver an ar asrulebs
Tavis movaleobas. saqmeSi
Zalian bevri lafsusia. Tundac
sagamoZiebo moqmedebebis droulad
arganxorcieleba, mowmeebis
droulad ardakiTxva, im adgilis
gadawva, sadac TviTmxilveli
imaleboda. savaraudod, saxelmwifo
viRacebs xels afarebs. Tundac
jer kidev kiTxvis niSania imas-
Tan dakavSirebiT, aris Tu ara
„kawro” is adamiani, vinc manqanidan
gadmodis? realurad, kadrSi Cans,
rom is piri mowmes esaubreba. Sinagan
saqmeTa saministros avtobanze
imdeni kamera aqvs, martivi
dasadgenia, marTlac xaSuridan
modioda Tu ara is pirovneba. es
kiTxvis niSnebi aCens swored eWvs,
rom saxelmwifo am saqmis Cafarcxvas
cdilobs da Tu amas akeTebs,
ra Tqma unda, es sistemuri dana-
Saulia. Cven ukve gvaqvs SemTxvevebi,
Tu rogor moqmedebda saxelmwifo
saraliZis, maCalikaSvilis
saqmeebze, Sesabamisad, aseTi qmedeba
ukve saxelmwifos xelwera gaxda
da ar mgonia, vinmes gaukvirdes,
Tuki aRmoCnda, rom saqmes ayalbeben.
_ am saqmesTan dakavSirebiT
ismis mosazreba, rom mediis
CarTuloba,
garkveulwilad,
azianebs sagamoZiebo process. ra
kuTxiT gamoikveTa mediis roli
am saqmeSi da exeba Tu ara igi
mTel sazogadoebas?
_ es ojaxis tragediaa da ise
emociurad amas veravin aRiqvams,
rogorc ojaxi, magram saerTod ar
vfiqrob, rom es Tema sazogadoebas
ar exeba. realurad, problemaa,
rom saxelmwifo jerovnad
ar asrulebs Tavis movaleobas. SeiZleba,
ojaxma damnaSaveebs saer-
Tod apatios, magram es imas ar niSnavs,
rom saxelmwifom Tavisi movaleoba
ar unda Seasrulos. msjeloba
im kuTxiT, rom es tragedia
mxolod ojaxis saqmea da sxvas
aravis araferi ekiTxeba, arasaxelmwifoebrivi
viwro Tvalsawieris
azrovnebaa. rac Seexeba mediis
rols am saqmeSi, kidev erTxel
gamoCnda, Tu ramdenad mniSvnelovania
Tavisufali mediis arseboba
qveyanaSi, raTa aseT dros kiTxvebs
pasuxebi gaeces. is, rom garkveul
kiTxvebs pasuxi gaeca, mediisa da
im Jurnalisturi gamoZiebis damsaxurebaa,
rac Jurnalistebma
awarmoes, igive Tqveni gazeTis redaqtorma
qalbatonma eliso
kilaZem da Tavisufalma televiziebma.
mediis rolia swored mTavari
saqmis am donemde miyvanaSi _
saxelmwifos realuri Secdomebi
da danaSaulebebi gamoCnda.
_ winasaarCevnod xelisufle-
bas ar unda awyobdes am tipis saqmis
gamouZiebloba. es xom ar iqne-
ba obieqturi gamoZiebis sababi?
_ xelisuflebisTvis Zalian
cudi iqneba arCevnebis win am saqmis
gamouZiebloba, magram, realurad,
es socialuri kontraqti
mgonia, rac xelisuflebas kriminalTan
da quCasTan aqvs dadebuli.
aqedan gamomdinare, xelisufleba
ver wiravs im adamianebs, romlebic
arCevnebze exmarebian. gvaxsovs,
wlebis winaT korcxelSi rogor
moeqcnen opozicioner deputatebs
da aravin aris dasjili, aseve
moWidave zurab daTunaSvilis cemis
faqti, roca aravin dasjila.
es is realobaa, rac Seqmna „qarTuli
ocnebis” xelisuflebam. Tu vinmes
gawiraven, magaliTad, sportsmens,
romelic SaqaraSvilis
saqmeSi monawileobda, maSin isini
imaze dafiqrdebian, rom „ocneba”
wiravs Tavis momxreebs da Sesa-
Zloa, ise aRar daexmaron. ase rom,
xelisuflebis bralia is garemo,
rac dRes Seiqmna qveyanaSi.
_ prezidentis gancxadeba, „Za-
ladoba vici erTi erTze”, xels
uwyobs Zaladobis romantizebas?
_ salome zurabiSvilis gamosvlebi
komikuri gaxda. mgonia, rom
am SemTxvevaSi verbalizaciis problemaa
da es adamiani ar atans gonebas
imas, Tu ra Sedegi SeiZleba
gamoiwvios misma gamonaTqvamma. es
pirveli SemTxveva ar aris, bevrjer
dauSvia msgavsi lingvisturi
Seusabamoba.
_ am procesebis paralelurad
mmarTvelma gundma saarCevno
Stabis xelmZRvanelad irakli
kobaxiZe daniSna, raze metyvelebs
es gadawyvetileba?
_ es imis dadasturebaa, Tu
rogori winasaarCevno kampania eqneba
„qarTul ocnebas”, anu siZulvilis
enaze, Zaladobaze, agresiasa
da „cxra welze” damyarebuli.
„qarTul ocnebas” iseTi
saarCevno kampania da mesijboqsebi
eqneba, rogoric irakli kobaxiZea
da rogor tonalobaSic saubrobda
is mosaxleobasa da opoziciasTan.
_ „cxrawlian reJimze” dam-
yarebuli kampania axseneT,
romelsac 2012 wlidan iyenebs
„qarTuli ocneba”. amjerad ramdenad
imuSavebs „qarTuli ocneb-
is” sasargeblod es gzavnili?
_ „cxrawliani reJimis” xseneba
ise Zlierad aRar imuSavebs,
giorgi qitiaSvili:
`xelisuflebas
kriminalTan
socialuri
kontraqti aqvs
dadebuli~
rogorc aqamde muSaobda. rac Seexeba
opozicias, mosaxleoba unda
davarwmunoT, rom Cveni arCevis
SemTxvevaSi bevrad ukeTesi momavali
eqneba qveyanas. mTavari amocanaa,
gadauwyveteli amomrCeveli
miviyvanoT yuTTan da „qarTul
ocnebas” ar mivceT arCevnebis gayalbebis
saSualeba, rac, vfiqrob,
opoziciis muSaobazea damokidebuli.
_ Tqveni azriT, kvlav polarizebuli
garemo iqneba da arCe-
vani dadgeba „qarTul ocnebasa”
da „nacionalur moZraobas”
Soris?
_ radgan kobaxiZe daniSnes
saarCevno Stabis xelmZRvanelad,
savaraudod, aqcenti gakeTdeba:
„qarTuli ocneba” VS „nacionaluri
moZraoba”. magram arseboben
sxva politikuri Zalebi: „Tavisufali
demokratebi”, „evropuli
saqarTvelo”, „lelo”... wels sxva
tipis arCevnebi Catardeba da amitom
ar mgonia, 2016 wlis polarizebis
suraTi vixiloT. arCevnebze
saqarTvelos mosaxleobas velodebi,
man unda gadawyvitos, saiT
gvinda wasvla _ ruseTisken Tu
dasavleTisken? Cveni xelisufleba
im saqmes akeTebs, rac ruseTs
awyobs. ruseTs problemebi hqonda
zviad gamsaxurdiasTan, eduard
SevardnaZesTan, mixeil saakaS-
vilTan, magram, ratomRac, biZina
ivaniSvilTan ar aqvs. yvela faqti
ruseTis interesebSi iyo: ar aSenda
anakliis porti da a. S. ruse-
Tis interesebSia saqarTvelo,
rogorc Seumdgari, gaWirvebuli
da Raribi qveyana. ivaniSvili cdilobs,
gaaRaribos Cveni qveyana da
aamos ruseTs, es aris swored,
prorusoba. ver davijereb, rom
biZina ivaniSvils ruseTTan kavSiri
ar aqvs. romeli Tavmoyvare xelisufleba
Camoiyvanda gavrilovs?!
amaT gasdiT da akeTeben.
ruseTis interesebs emTxveva
mmarTveli gundis qmedebebi.
_ ramdenad didi Sansia imisa,
rom opozicia ruseTis Temas da
„ocnebis” prorusul nabijebs
daanaxebs amomrCevlis did naw-
ils?
_ es Cvenzea damokidebuli.
opozicia Tu amas SevZlebT, aseT
SemTxvevaSi gamarjvebas movipovebT.
aucilebelia, mosaxleobasTan
Sexvedrebi, xSiri konsultaciebi
da xalxma unda igrZnos, rom maT
gverdiT varT da kabinetebSi ar
vsxedvarT. opoziciam Zalian bevri
unda vimuSaoT, rom Cveni
saTqmeli da ideebi mosaxleobamde
mivitanoT.
_ rogoria „Tavisufali demo-
kratebis” gegmebi am arCevnebze?
_ „evropul saqarTvelosTan”
erTad koaliciiT gavdivarT arCevnebze.
mTawmindaze gvyavs saer-
To opoziciuri kandidati, _ Cveni
partiidan Salva SavguliZe da
mxars vuWerT danarCen opoziciur
kandidatebs sxva raionebSi,
razedac SevTanxmdiT. rac Seexeba
mTavar mesijboqss, winasaarCevno
kampaniis gamocxadebis Semdeg yvelaferi
gaxdeba cnobili.
_ iyo aseTi daTqma, rom am
wels bevri axali saxe gamoCndeboda
politikaSi. am mocemulo-
biT risi Tqma SegiZliaT da
rogor warmogidgeniaT axal-
gazrdebis CarTuloba 2020 wlis
saparlamento arCevnebze?
_ politikur partiebSi myofi
axalgazrdebi maqsimalurad CaverTvebiT
procesebSi da winasaarCevno
kampaniaSic miviRebT monawileobas.
SeiZleba, kandidatebic
iyvnen axalgazrdebi. 2020 wlis
arCevnebisTvis SeiZleba ar iyos
TvalsaCino axalgazrdebis politikaSi
CarTuloba, magram mgonia,
rom 2030 wlisTvis saerTod axali
politikuri elita iqneba, ra
Tqma unda, arsebuli politikosebis
nawilTan erTad. sazogadoebis
dakveTa axal saxeebTan dakav-
SirebiT nel-nela Sesruldeba.
gvaxsovs, wlebis winaT korcxelSi rogor moeqcnen opozicioner deputatebs
da aravin aris dasjili, aseve moWidave zurab daTunaSvilis cemis faqti,
roca aravin dasjila. es is realobaa, rac Seqmna `qarTuli ocnebis~
xelisuflebam. Tu vinmes gawiraven, magaliTad, sportsmens, romelic
SaqaraSvilis saqmeSi monawileobda, maSin isini imaze dafiqrdebian, rom
`ocneba~ wiravs Tavis momxreebs da SesaZloa, ise aRar daexmaron~
36
36 N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
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vasil mamulaSvili: `17 piris dakaveba sazogadoebis emociis Sedegi iyo~
mexuTe gverdidan
_ Cemi dacvis qveS myofebs 143-e muxli
absurdulad wauyenes, aqedan gamomdinare,
Tavisuflad SeiZleba maT 109-e muxlic absurdulad
wauyenon, Tumca amaze Cven yvelaze
naklebad vnerviulobT, radgan darwmunebulebi
varT, rom ra sasamarTlo
pirobebSic ar unda viyoT, aRniSnuli mtkicebulebebiT
am saqmeze aucileblad
dadgeba gamamarTlebeli ganaCeni. saqmis
ganxilvisTvis 6-Tviani vadaa imis gamo, rom
arasrulwlovnebi arian saqmis monawile
pirebi. 6 TveSi Tu ar dadga ganaCeni, es
pirebi ganTavisufldebian da sasamarTlo
sxdomebi gagrZeldeba. araerTi SemTxveva
viciT, roca 9-Tviani vadis gasvlis Semdeg
braldebuli gauSviaT da mere damdgara an
gamamarTlebeli an gamamtyunebeli ganaCeni.
anu es vada ar ukavSirdeba marTlmsajulebis
jerovnad ganxorcielebas. am
saqmeze samarTlebrivad ar arsebobs
braldebis damZimebis safuZveli, Tumca realobidan
gamomdinare Teoriuli Sansi
aris, rom es usafuZvlo braldebebi
warudginon Cemi dacvis qveS myofebs. es ara
mxolod CvenTvis, aramed gamoZiebisTvisac
cudi iqneba. gamoZiebam Tu braldeba
warudgina am pirebs, saqme am nawilSi gaxsnilad
gamocxaddeba. aseT SemTxvevaSi gamo-
Zieba SesaZlo versiebze muSaobas aCerebs.
realuri versia SeiZleba daikargos da
realuri damnaSaveebi gaqrnen. es cudia
dazaralebulisTvisac, radgan maT Tu aqvT
gancda, rom mkvleloba moxda, veRarasdros
gaarkveven simarTles.
_ ramdenad adekvaturia am saqmesTan
mimarTebiT saxalxo damcveli da ra for-
miT unda CaerTos is?
_ normis doneze: „saqarTvelos saxalxo
damcveli adamianis uflebaTa da TavisuflebaTa
saxelmwifoebrivi garantiebis
uzrunvelyofis mizniT zedamxedvelobas
uwevs saxelmwifo xelisuflebisa da adgilobrivi
TviTmmarTvelobis organoTa, sajaro
dawesebulebaTa da Tanamdebobis pir-
Ta mxridan saqarTvelos teritoriis farglebsa
da mis iurisdiqciaSi myofi yvela
pirisTvis saxelmwifos mier aRiarebul
uflebaTa da TavisuflebaTa dacvasa da pativiscemas.
ganurCevlad rasisa, kanis ferisa,
sqesisa, enisa, warmoSobisa da sxva garemoebebisa”.
e. i. am SemTxvevaSi yvela pirSi
igulisxmeba rogorc braldebuli, aseve
dazaralebuli, statuss ar aqvs arsebiTi
mniSvneloba. SesaZloa, viRac ukanonod dai-
Wiron da is ufro safrTxis Semcveli aRmoCndes.
gakvirvebuli var saxalxo damcvelis
gancxadebiT, _ sanam am saqmes mkvlelobis
statusi ar mieniWa, manam uflebamosileba
ar gvqondao. misi es gancxadeba
sruli absurdia. saxalxo damcvelis poziciidan
visaubrebdi imaze, rom am saqmeze
sazogadoeba Tu Jurnalistebi xSirad arsebiTad
mcdari informaciis Semcvel
faqtebs avrceleben, rac sityvisa da gamoxatvis
Tavisuflebis Sesaxeb saqarTvelos
kanonidan gamomdinare dauSvebelia. Tu samarTlebrivi
saxelmwifos Seqmna gvinda, sazogadoebis
samarTlebrivi donec unda
avamaRloT. gamosaxulebis uflebac piradi
araqonebrivi uflebaa. personaluri
dacvis inspeqtors rom mivmarTo, yvela
televizia, vinc es gamosaxulebis ufleba
daarRvia, dajarimdeba. rodesac am tipis
Canawerebi vrceldeba, saxeebi dafaruli
unda iyos. dRes ukve yvelaferi airia am
saqmeSi.
_ rom ara mediis CarTuloba, sazoga-
doebisTvis bevri ram ucnobi iqneboda da
gamoZiebac sxva kuTxiT wavidoda.
_ ver moviwoneb mediis qcevas, romelic
mtkicebiT formaSi romelime pirs daabralebs
mkvlelobas, _ es ar SeiZleba. Tu
am tipis gancxadebas akeTeben, minimum, varaudis
doneze mainc gamoTqvan. aseTi tipis
gancxadebebi frTxilad, Jurnalilsturi
eTikis normebisa da sxva adamianebis
uflebebis dacviT unda keTdebodes. xSirad
am informaciebze sazogadoeba reagirebs,
saxelmwifos winasaarCevnod ar awyobs
milionobiT adamianis gaRizianeba, amitomac
garkveul informaciaze sazogadoebis
reaqcias SeiZleba araswori bralis wayeneba
moyves. samwuxarod, xSirad medias
provocirebis manqanad iyeneben. visurveb,
rom yvelam Tavisi saqme swori formiT ake-
Tos. amave formiT mivesalmebi mediis
CarTulobas. amis gamovlinebaa Cemi qceva,
maqsimalurad mogawodoT informacia.
aSS _ gamowvevebi da donald trampis istoriuli sityva
35-e gverdidan
Cven ganvacxadebT damoukideblobis
deklaraciis idealebs da
arasodes davTmobT suls, simamaces
da 1776 wlis 4 ivlisis saqmes.
am safuZvelze myarad da Seudrekelad
vidgebiT. im sicrueebis pirispir,
romlebic gvxleCen da gvamcireben,
Cven yvelas davanaxvebT,
rom amerikis istoria gvaerTianebs,
inspiraciiT aRgvavsebs, yvelas
mogvicavs da gvaTavisuflebs. Cven
unda moviTxovoT, rom Cvens Svilebs
iseve aswavlidnen amerikis danaxvas,
rogorc amas akeTebda presviteri
martin luTer kingi, rodesac
ambobda, rom dafuZneblebma
valis Tamasuqze yoveli momavali
TaobisTvis moaweres xeli. doqtori
kingi xedavda, rom misia Cvengan
samarTlianobas moiTxovda,
rom Cven dafuZnebis idealebi bolomde
unda gaviTavisoT. es idealebi
CvenTvis aris dafuZnebis
mniSvnelovani idealebi.
igi sakuTar Tanamoqalaqeebs
mouwodebda, ar moespoT TavianTi
memkvidreoba, aramed Rirsni yofiliyvnen
am memkvidreobis. yoveli
Temis bavSvebs, uwinares yovlisa,
is unda vaswavloT, rom amerikeloba
niSnavs Tavgadasavlis
moyvaruli da TviTcnobieri adamianis
sulis tarebas. amerikelebi
arian adamianebi, romlebic Cveni
manifestis beds okeanis miRma,
gamoukvlev tye-RreSi, umaRles
mTebs iqiT, Semdeg casa da varskvlavebisken
mihyvebodnen.
Cven varT endriu jeksonis, ulises
grantisa da frederik daglasis
qveyana. Cven varT uaild bil
hikokisa da bafalo bil kodis
qveyana. Cven varT eri-saxelmwifo,
vinc warmoiSva Zmebi raitebi, mfrinavebi
takigi, hariet tabmani,
klara bartoni, jesi ouensi, jorj
petoni, generali jorj petoni,
didi luis armstrongi, alan
Seferdi, elvis presli da muhamed
ali da mxolod amerikas SeeZlo
maTi warmoSoba. sxvagan es SeuZlebeli
iyo.
Cven varT kultura, sadac huveris
kaSxali aRmarTes, daages
Cqarosnuli gzebi da manhetenis
iersaxe Camoayalibes. Cven is adamianebi
varT, romlebic ocnebas
frTebs asxamdnen da amas daerqva
las-vegasi nevadis udabnoSi, maiami
amosuli floridis Waobebidan da
Cveni gmirebi gamokveTilni raSmoris
mTaze. amerikelebma gamoiyenes
eleqtrooba, gaxliCes
atomi da msoflios misces telefoni
da interneti. Cven veluri
dasavleTi davasaxleT, movigeT
ori msoflio omi, mTvareze gavuSviT
amerikeli astronavtebi.
da erT dResac, Zalian male,
Cvens droSas marsze davkidebT.
Cven gvaqvs naCuqari uolt uitmanis
poeziis samyaro, mark tvenis
istoriebis, irving berlinis sim-
Rerebis, ela ficjeraldis xma,
frenk sinatras stili, bob houpis
komedia, saturn V-raketis Zala,
fordi F150-is gamZleoba da amerikuli
aviamzidis arnaxuli si-
Zliere.
amerikelebma es Cinebuli istoria
arasodes ar unda dakargon.
Cven ar gvaqvs ufleba, igi daviviwyoT.
aravis ise araferi gaukeTebia
odesme, rogorc Cven. amis gamo
mTeli Cemi avtoritetiT, romelic
me, rogorc amerikis SeerTebuli
Statebis prezidents, gadmomeca,
vacxadeb axali Zeglis aRmarTvis
Sesaxeb Cveni warsulis gigantebisTvis.
me xels vawer amerikeli
gmirebis erovnuli gvardiis
Zeglis aRmarTvaze da es iqneba
uzarmazari parki qalaqgareT, romelSic
yvelaze didi amerikelebis
qandakebebi daidgmeba, visac ki
amqveynad ucxovria.
am Ramidan moyolebuli, am
didebuli adgilidan gvsurs,
gaerTianebulebs Cvens ganzraxva-
Si, win viaroT da sakuTar Tavs
axlidan mivaniWoT es mzaoba. Cven
amerikeli patriotebis axal Taobas
aRvzrdiT. Cven davwerT amerikuli
Tavgadasavlis axal saintereso
Tavs. Cven vaswavliT Cvens
Svilebs imis codnas, rom isini
legendebis qveyanaSi cxovroben,
rom arafers da aravis SeuZlia
maTi SeCereba. maT ecodinebaT,
rom amerikaSi yvelafris gakeTeba
SeiZleba da rom Cven erTad yvelafris
miRweva SegviZlia.
raSmoris mTis titanebisgan aRmarTulni
Cven vipoviT erTianobas,
rasac aravin moeloda. Cven gadavdgamT
nabijebs, rac aravisTvis
yofila SesaZlebeli. es qveyana
gaxdeba iseTi, rogorsac Cveni moqalaqeebi
amden xans imedovnebdnen
da risic eSiniaT Cvens mtrebs,
radgan Cven arasodes daviviwyebT,
rom amerikuli Tavisufleba
amerikuli sidiadisTvis arsebobs.
da es aris is, rac gvaqvs _ amerikuli
sidiade. saukuneebis manZilze
Cveni anderZi is qalaqebi iqnebian,
romlebic Cven avageT, is Cempionebi,
romlebic gamovWedeT, sikeTeebi,
romlebic aRvasruleT da Zeglebi,
romlebic SevqmeniT Cven
garSemo yvelas inspirirebisTvis.
Cemo sayvarelo Tanamoqalaqeebo,
amerikis bedi Cven winaSea. amerikis
gmirebi Cvens gulebSi arian myarad,
amerikis momavali Cvens xelTaa.
batonebo da qalbatonebo, saukeTeso
jer kidev winaa. TqvenTan er-
Tad yofna didi pativi iyo pirveli
ledisTvis da CemTvis. me miyvars
Tqveni saxelmwifo. me miyvars
es qveyana. me msurs, yvelas vusurvo
Zalian bednieri 4 ivlisi. RmerTma
dalocos is. RmerTma dalocos
Tqveni ojaxebi. RmerTma
dalocos Cveni samxedroebi da
RmerTma dalocos amerika. gmadlobT
Tqven, gmadlobT”. (sityvis
dasasruli)
am yvelafris fonze namdvilad
rCeba gancda da emocia, rom aSS
warmatebiT gaivlis yvela winaaRmdegobas
da is kvlav iqneba msoflioSi,
maT Soris, saqarTveloSi,
politikuri amindisa da RirebulebiTi
arCevanis ganmsazRvreli da
nebismieri individis, moqalaqis
uflebebisTvis brZolis motivatori.
RmerTma dalocos aSS!
N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
37
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
saqarTvelos 6 eri
eqvsi eris eqsperimentul turnirSi,
romelic wleuls Semodgomis
miwurulsa da zamTris dasawyisSi
igegmeba, SesaZloa, saqar-
Tvelos erovnulma nakrebmac miiRos
monawileoba. am varauds irlandielebi
gamoTqvamen:
„msoflio ragbi mimdinare kviraSi
apirebs, garkveuli naTeli
mohfinos darCenili wlis kalendars.
misi erT-erTi nawili rvagundiani
eqsperimentuli turniri
unda gaxdes, romelSic 6 eris nakrebebis
garda saqarTvelom da
fijim unda iTamaSon, finali ki 5
dekembers Catardeba. turniris
reglamentis Tanaxmad, 8 nakrebi
or jgufSi gadanawildeba, isini
erT wred iTamaSeben, gamarjvebulebi
ki finalSi iasparezeben.
ramdenime Tvea, es sakiTxi masmediis
saSualebebSi aqtiurad
ganixileba, gansakuTrebiT ki es
inglisur presaze unda vTqvaT,
sadac meti konkretika SeiniSneboda.
isini pirdapir ambobdnen, rom
6 erze miwveuli gundebi fiji da
iaponia unda yofiliyvnen, Tumca
ufro logikuri iqneba, Tuki iaponiis
nacvlad Sejibrze saqarTvelos
vixilavT.
aRniSnulis Tqmis safuZvels
mTeli rigi mizezebi gvaZlevs. ma-
Tgan upirvelesi koronavirusiT
gamowveuli SezRudvebia, romlebic
qveynebs Soris gadaadgilebebs
arTulebs. fijeli da qarTveli
moragbeebis didi nawili frangulsa
da inglisur klubebSi TamaSobs,
es ki mogzaurobis masStabs
minimumamde daiyvanda. amasTan, me-
2 donis erTbaSad 2 qveynis turnirSi
CarTva meti pozitivis momtani
iqneboda.
saqarTvelos nakrebma ragbi evropis
Cempionatze bolo 10-dan 9
gaTamaSeba moigo da maTgan 6 erSi
CarTvis ambicia sul ufro xSirad
ismis. ukidures SemTxvevaSi, saubaria
plei ofSi TamaSze, rac qar-
Tvelebs elitaSi asvlis mcire
Sanss mainc miscems. amis gaTvaliswinebiT,
saqarTvelos eqsperimentul
turnirSi CarTva maTi Zalebis
warmoCenis idealuri varianti
iqneboda. maT swored aq miecemaT
Sansi yvelas aCvenon, rom 6 erSi
TamaSs marTlac imsaxureben.
SegaxsenebT, rom gasul msoflios
Tasze saqarTvelos nakrebma
mxolod urugvais sZlia, Tumca
iyo avstraliasTan TamaSic, romelic
maT mxolod 8:27 waages. „Tuki
qarTvelebi momaval turnirSi
marTlac dauSves, isini jgufur
etapze 3 umaRlesi tests Caatareben,
rac maTi ganviTarebisTvis
Zalian sasargeblo iqneba”, _ amboben
irlandielebi, romlebsac 6
erSi friad woniani sityva eTqmiT.
basilaSvilis saqme
gadaido da
vaSingtonSi daiwyeba
mtkicebulebebis arqonis gamo
sasamarTlo gadaido. SegaxsenebT:
saqarTvelos 1-l da msoflios 27-
e Cogan nikoloz basilaSvils yofili
meuRle, neli doroyaSvili,
ZaladobaSi sdebs brals, Tumca,
rogorc giTxariT, jer amis mtkicebulebebi
ar aqvs…
amasobaSi Tavad basilaSvili pandemiis
Semdeg pirveli Sejibris-
Tvis emzadeba. es vaSingtonSi moxdeba,
sadac starts 500-iani turniri
aiRebs. sakmaod prestiJuli
Sejibria da saprizo fondi
1.953.285 dolars Seadgens. ukve
wardgenili ganacxadiT amerikul
hardis kortebze iTamaSeben danil
medvedevi, stefanos cicipasi, david
gofini, karen xaCanovi, jo isneri,
kevin andersoni, miloS raoniCi,
marin CiliCi, feliqs oJiealiasimi…
SegaxsenebT: martis Semdeg Sewyvetili
turnirebis gamo, aseve martamde,
CogburTelebs qulebi dasacavi
ar eqnebaT, magram mogroveba ki
SeeZlebaT. SarSan nikas am turnirze
ar uTamaSia, xolo Cempioni nik kirgiosi
gaxda, romelmac finalSi medvedevs
7:6, 7:6 mougo.
realis 92
formula 1.82
madridis „realma” la liga moigo da
sxvadasxva tituliT principul metoqe
„barselonas” gadaaswro. axla „reals” 92
jildo aqvs, „barsas” 91.
sadReisod realis aqtivSia: espaneTis
34 Cempionoba, qveynis 19 Tasi da 11 su-
perTasi, ligis erTi Tasi, 13 CempionTa
liga, Svidi msoflios saklubo Cempi-
onati, oTxi uefas superTasi, ori uefas
Tasi da erTic eva duartes Tasi.
„barselona” 26-jer gaxda la ligis
gamarjvebuli, espaneTis Tasi moigo 30-
jer, superTasi _ 13-jer, aseve ori ligis
Tasi, xuTi CempionTa liga, sami msoflios
saklubo Cempionati, xuTi uefas super-
Tasi, oTxi uefas Tasebis mflobelTa
Tasi da samjer eva duartes Tasi.
eva duartes Tasi, SesaZloa, bevrs
yurs Wrides, magram getyviT, rom es iyo
espaneTSi superTasis analogi 1940-53
wlebSi Cempioni da Tasis mflobeli erT-
maneTs am trofisTvis ecilebodnen.
„barselonas” Sansi aqvs, madridelebs
zafxulSive gauTanabrdes, radgan jer
kidev agrZelebs gamosvlas CempionTa
ligaSi. Tumca iqvea „realic”...
SarSan „formula 1-s” sajiniboebma ramdenjerme
SokSi Caagdes avtosportis moyvarulebi.
pit-stopebze saburavebis Secv-
lis procesi imdenad daxvewili gaxda, 2019
wlis ganmavlobaSi mxolod „red bulis”
meqanikosebma xuTjer moaxerxes oTxi
saburavis or wamze nakleb droSi gamocv-
la. saukeTeso Sedegi 1.82 wami(!!!) iyo.
qomagebi SiSobdnen, rom rvaTviani
uqmoba cudad aisaxeboda teqnikuri per-
sonalis ostatobasa da sinqronul
muSaobaze. nuras ukacravad!
sezonis meore gran-pris avstriam
umaspinZla. teqnikur jgufebs Soris
isev „red bulma” iyoCaRa _ maT maqs
ferstapenis bolids oTxi saburavi 1.95
wamSi Seucvales. meore Sedegic imave
gundis iyo. aleqs albonis bolidis mom-
saxurebas 2.22 wami dasWirda.
amaT fonze lamis saukune gavida, sanam
„mersedesis” teqnikosebma pit-stopi-
dan valteri botasi gaistumres _ 2.39
wami. gurmanebi am sezonisgan kidev ufro
mets elian.
38
38 N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
toCis
jer
iqneba
boikoti?
1:1 aqvs
koronapandemiisas Sewyvetili, axla ki
tokioSi ganaxlebul baSos meore dRes, to-
CinoSini kaiseis Seerkina. mebrZolebs erTmaneTTan
urTierTSexvedrebis mdidari istoria
aqvT, am Setakebamde erTmaneTs 19-jer
daupirispirdnen, sadac qarTvelis upiratesoba
naTeli iyo: 12:7
samwuxarod, es dRe levanisTvis warmatebuli
ar yofila. xangrZlivi Widaobis Semdeg
kaiseim is iorikiris kimariteTi (ileTiT)
dohiodan gadaiyvana.
SegaxsenebT, toCinoSinis mimdinare balansi
erTi mogeba da erTi marcxia
10 ambavi barselonaze
Cvenma espanelma kolegebma Camoweres
is aTi mizezi, Tu ratom
ver moigo wleuls „barselonam”
espaneTis Cempionis tituli. es gaxldaT
bolo aTwleulis yvelaze
cudi sezoni, romelic mwvrTnelma
ernesto valverdem daiwyo da
kike setienma daasrula.
ager, Cavardnis aTi mizezic:
cudi dagegmva
vaisa da vaglaxis niSnebi jer
kidev maSin gamoCnda, rodesac klubma
Zveleburad 2014-15 wlebis gegma
dasaxa _ sezonSi sami mTavari jildos
mopoveba moindoma. arada, CempionTa
ligaSi „liverpulTan” Seuracxmyofeli
marcxis Semdeg gundma
espaneTis samefo Tasis finalic
waago, magram prezidentma Jozep
maria bartomeum mwvrTneli ernesto
valverde ar gauSva. arada, aSkara
iyo, rom valverdes SesaZleblobebis
maragi iwureboda. kritikuli
momenti ianvarSi dadga, rodesac
klubma ramdenime fexburTeli
ijariT gauSva, is ki ara, zogi gayida
kidec da amas luis suaresis,
osman dembeles, samuel umtitisa da
sxvebis travmebic daerTo.
N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.
araswori SenaZeni
iyides oTxi axali fexburTeli:
nieto, firpo, de iongi da grizmani.
de iongs pozicia ver Seur-
Cies. Sesabamisad, manac veRar aCvena
is fexburTi, romelsac „aiaqs-
Si” TamaSobda. bolos sulac daSavda.
grizmanma „barselonaSi” vera
da ver gaiara srulyofili adaptacia.
amis gamo setienma is sezonis
ganaxlebis Semdeg sam SexvedraSi
skamze dasva da am matCebSi
gundma qulebi dakarga.
problemuri gayidvebi
Tavidan „barselonam” gadawyvita,
rakitiCi da vidali gaeyida.
mizezi an sportuli iyo, an _ finansuri.
ase Tu ise, myidveli ar gamoCnda,
xolo xorvatma da Cilelma
maT mimarT damokidebulebis
cvlileba kargad ver miiRes.
gundi daberda
„barsa” kvlav im Semadgenlobas
eyrdnoba, romelmac 2015 wels CempionTa
liga moigo. am fexburTelebis
ostatobaSi eWvis Setana ar
SeiZleba, magram isini xom xuTi
wliT daberdnen. mTavari gundis 8
moTamaSe 30-35 wlisaa da maTgan 6
regularulad sastarto SemadgenlobaSia.
la masia
valverdes sul akritikebdnen
B gunds zedac ar uyurebso, magram
setienic aseTi aRmoCnda. mar-
Talia, TiTo-orola kaci aqa-iq
orivem aTamaSa, magram karles peresi,
romelmac sezoni SesaniSnavad
daiwyo, ianvarSi gayides da am magaliTiT
kargad Cans, Tu rogor
dakninda bolo wlebSi „barselonaSi”
saymawvilo akademiis roli.
mwvrTnelis cvlileba
ar aqvs mniSvneloba, bolomde
endobodnen Tu ara valverdes
fexburTelebi; setienma ki maTTan
kontaqti saerTod dakarga. faqtia:
mwvrTnelis cvlilebam Sedegi
ver gamoiRo. setienma „barselonas”
stili ver aRudgina. metic,
gundma usaxuri, mosawyeni fexbur-
Tis TamaSi daiwyo. is ver dadga
mTavari konkurentebis, „realisa”
da „atletikos” doneze da bolos
imdeni moaxerxa, rom „osasunas-
Tanac” ki waago.
pandemiam daasusta
zogi gundi („reali”, „atletiko”,
„viliareali”, „granada”) karantinis
Semdeg motivirebuli dabrunda,
„real sosiedadi” ki, magaliTad,
moimCvara. karantinma arc
„barsas” argo _ 6 mogeba, 3 fre da
1 wageba. gunds sicocxle aklda.
amas daemata travmebi udroo
dros. guls erTaderTi, luis suaresis
dabruneba Tu axalisebda.
mesi da ter Stegeni
sakmarisi ar aris
mekare mark-andre ter Stegens
cudi statistikis (36 gaSvebuli
goli, 14 ugolo TamaSi) miuxedavad,
saucxoo sezoni hqonda. mesi
ki kvlav mesia (23 goli, 20 sagole
pasi). magram ori kaci „barselonas”
tituls ver moagebinebda.
stumrad susti
kidev erTi ram, rac am sezonSi
„barselonas” gamoarCevda, stumrad
susti TamaSi iyo. marTalia, am
wuTas erTi turi kidev aris saTamaSo,
magram statistika aseTia: Sin
50 qula, stumrad _ 29.
2018-19 wlebis sezonSi statistika
gaxldaT 48 Sin da 39 stumrad.
yvelaze cota qula 2007-08
wlebis sezonis Semdeg.
2021 wels gasamarT tokios
olimpiur TamaSebs, romelic
wleuls unda gamarTuli, „ra-
Rac emuqreba”. es „raRac” ki
boikoti unda iyos. yovel
SemTxvevaSi,
saerTaSoriso
olimpiuri komitetis prezi-
dent Tomas baxis gancxadeba
da warsulis gaxseneba amas
gvafiqrebinebs.
...SegaxsenebT, rom 1980
wels moskovSi gamarTul oli-
mpiur TamaSebs boikoti 60-ze
metma qveyanam gamoucxada.
mizezi 1979 wels sabWoTa jar-
ebis avRaneTSi Sesvla iyo. sw-
ored es faqti gaixsena baxma.
„1980 wlis olimpiuri
TamaSebis boikotma araferi
mogvca. es yvelam aRniSna. olimpiadis
dasrulebidan ramdenime
TveSi germaniis fed-
eraciul respublikaSi miTx-
res, rom dauSves Secdoma da
boikoti araswori iyo. TviT
maSindelma kanclermac ki,
romelic gvaiZulebda boikots,
Secdoma 2008 wels aRi-
ara.
sportsmenebs olimpiuri
ocneba waerTvaT, risTvisac
wlebi emzadebodnen. amitom,
Tu vinme fiqrobs boikotze, es
gakveTili unda gaiTvaliswinon.
sportSi boikoti sasike-
Tos arafers moitans. piriqiT,
vnebs sportsmenebs da qveynis
mosaxleobas, romlebmac Tavi-
anTi aTletebiT unda iamayon.
ra saWiroa boikoti? is vnebs
olimpiur suls, sportsmenis
faseulobas, risTvisac Cven
vibrZviT”, gvamcnobs baxis si-
tyvebs sok-is pressamsaxuri.
saeWvo gancxadeba Tu miniS-
nebaa. ratom dasWirda sok-is
prezidentis am faqtis gaxse-
neba, ver getyviT. bolo Tvee-
bSic ki ar yofila iseTi gancxadebebi,
rom vinmes olimpi-
uri TamaSebisTvis boikotis
gamocxadebis survili hqonoda,
garda imisa, rodesac ram-
denime qveyanam koronavirusis
gamo tokios olimpiur TamaSe-
bze Casvla ar isurva. es iyo
martSi da olimpiada gadaido
kidec…
39
CIAN MAGENTA YALLOW BLACK
kviris horoskopi
verZi
am dReebSi kategoriulad akrZalulia
siCqare. yvelaferi gaakeTeT zomierad,
yuradRebas nu miaqcevT, Tu dagaCqareben.
samuSaoze yuradRebas nu gadaitanT gareSe
rameebze, arsebobs Secdomis daSvebis riski.
saxlSi SesaZlebelia problemebi da
uTanxmoeba ojaxis wevrebTan.
kuro
nu moeridebiT grZnobebis gamovlenas
Tqveni meore naxevris mimarT. ratom ar
unda moawyoT romantikuli saRamo, uTxraT,
rom giyvarT? yvela kuros datvirTuli
SabaT-kvira elodeba. Tqveni saqmiani fusfusi
sasiamovno da sasargeblo iqneba.
tyupi
am niSnis warmomadgenlebisTvis rTuli
periodia: aSkarad surT Tqveni motyueba.
minimumamde SeamcireT urTierToba ucxo
adamianebTan. nu daxarjavT fuls uazro
survilebze, Semdeg inanebT. maT ki, visac
mavne Cvevebi aqvs, unda icodnen, rom axla
xelsayreli droa, raTa am Cvevevisgan gaTavisufldnen.
kirCxibi
uaxloes dReebSi ufro mgrZnobiareni
iqnebiT da advilad gewyinebaT yvelaferi,
vidre odesme. SeecadeT maqsimalurad
SeikavoT Tavi. axla SegiZliaT daisaxoT
axali miznebi da ifiqroT maTi ganxorcielebis
gzebze. gansakuTrebuli warmatebebi
geqnebaT sapirispiro sqesTan.
lomi
CaatareT Tqveni warsulis seriozuli
revizia – gaaanalizeT Secdomebi, movlenebi.
amis safuZvelze mogiwevT awmyos koreqtireba.
nu ahyvebiT emociebs, gansakuTrebiT,
Tu amisken gibiZgeben. da
nuravis nurafers dapirdebiT! SabaT-kviras
sasargeblod gaatarebT.
qalwuli
pozitiuri cvlilebebi geliT uaxloes
momavalSi. amisTvis mcire Zalisxmevac dag-
WirdebaT. saWiroebis SemTxvevaSi daxmarebisTvis
axlo megobars mimarTeT. bavSvebTan
urTierTobaSi sirTuleebma SeiZleba es periodi
daamZimos.
saswori
mTeli Tqveni yuradReba axla janmrTelobaze
unda iyos mimarTuli! yvelaferi
kargadaa, magram profilaqtika zedmeti ar
iqneba. gamoyaviT dro eqimTan vizitisTvis.
samsaxurSi SeecadeT ar aiRoT mniSvnelovani
proeqtebi – axla amisTvis Zala ar geyofaT.
umjobesia rutinuli davalebebis Sesruleba.
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com
yovelkvireuli gazeTi gamodis kviraSi
erTxel, samSabaTobiT da vrceldeba
saqarTvelos mTel teritoriaze
yovelkvireuli
gamodis samSabaTobiT fasi 2 lari
pirveli gverdi:
1 sm 2 _ 15 lari, maqsimaluri SekveTa 300 sm 2 ;
meore-mesame gverdebi:
1 sm 2 _ 3 lari;
Sida gverdebi:
1 sm 2 _ 1 lari;
bolos wina gverdi:
1sm 2 _2 lari;
bolo gverdi:
1sm 2 _ 3 lari,
maqsimaluri SekveTa _ mTeli gverdi;
mTliani gverdis saerTo farTobia _
1000 sm 2;
reklama CanarTis saxiT:
A3 3 formatis erT nomerSi ganTavseba _ 500 lari;
A4 4 formatis erT nomerSi ganTavseba _ 300 lari;
mis.: gudauris 7; 599 19 19 10 (Savlego cixelaSvili)
kviris horoskopi
morieli
am periodis ganmavlobaSi kargi ganwyoba
geqnebaT. isargebleT SesaZleblobiT da moagvareT
sakiTxebi, moawyveT Sexvedrebi. Sei-
Zleba SegiyvardeT kidec – Sansi didia!
kviris dasawyisSi SesaZloa xelsayreli SemoTavazeba
miiRoT. xelidan nu gauSvebT
Sanss!
mSvildosani
momavlis dagegmva gadadeT: awmyo metismetad
datvirTulia! moemzadeT samsaxurSi
daZabuli muSaobisa da seriozuli, magram
sasiamovno saSinao saqmeebisTvis. yvelas da
yvelafers RimiliT SexedeT da Sedegi
saukeTeso iqneba. frTxilad iyaviT saWesTan!
Txis rqa
naTesavebTan urTierToba jobda ukeTesi
yofiliyo. SecvaleT Tqveni damokidebuleba
maT mimarT da situaciac Seicvleba!
axla mniSvnelovania fuli ar isesxoT,
winaaRmdeg SemTxvevaSi es didi tvirTi iqneba
TqvenTvis. umjobesia mTeli Tqveni Zalisxmeva
damatebiTi Semosavlis Ziebas moaxmaroT.
misi moZiebis Sansi maRalia!
merwyuli
samsaxurSi arc Tu sasiamovno siurprizebi
gelodebaT. axla kolegebTan mTlad
gulaxdili nu iqnebiT. yuradReba miaqcieT
sakuTar ojaxs – maT Tqveni siyvaruli da
zrunva sWirdebaT. magram sakuTar Tavsac nu
daiviwyebT! Tbili abazana, sayvareli wigni
da surnelovani yava – ai, ra gWirdebaT.
Tevzebi
Tu wonis dasaklebad dietis dacvas
apirebdiT, Tqveni gegmebi sxva droisTvis
gadadeT, winaaRmdeg SemTxvevaSi did energias
daxarjavT, Sedegs ki ver miiRebT. or-
SabaTs SexvdebiT adamians, romelmac SeiZleba
bevri rame sasikeTod Secvalos Tqvens
cxovrebaSi.
1 aSS dolari
3.0672
1 evro
3.5138
1 girvanqa sterlingi
3.8656
100 rusuli rubli
4.2867
amindi
samSabaTi
oTxSabaTi
xuTSabaTi
paraskevi
SabaTi
kvira
orSabaTi
Tbilisi
32-34 0
29-31 0
24-26 0
28-30 0
29-31 0
30-32 0
31-33 0
quTaisi
24-26 0
27-30 0
28-30 0
29-32 0
30-33 0
32-34 0
35-37 0
baTumi
26-28 0
27-29 0
28-30 0
26-27 0
27-28 0
28-29 0
29-32 0
zugdidi
25-27 0
28-30 0
29-31 0
30-32 0
29-31 0
30-32 0
31-33 0
gori
26-28 0
27-29 0
25-27 0
27-29 0
28-30 0
29-31 0
30-32 0
Telavi
35-38 0
28-30 0
26-28 0
30-32 0
32-34 0
31-33 0
33-35 0
foTi
26-28 0
27-30 0
28-30 0
29-31 0
26-28 0
27-30 0
28-30 0
40
saredaqcio kolegia
yvela ufleba daculia;
`qronika+~-Si gamoqveynebuli
masalebis nebismieri saxiT
gamoyeneba da gavrceleba
redaqciasTan SeuTanxmeblad
akrZalulia!
gazeTSi R niSniT gamoqveynebul
masalebs aqvT sareklamo
xasiaTi; maTSi gamoxatuli pozicia
SeiZleba ar daemTxves
redaqciis Sexedulebas.
mTavari redaqtori eliso kilaZe (599 17 12 12)
marsagiSvili Sorena 599 92 16 22
rostiaSvili Tamar 577 10 07 06
SatakiSvili rezo 597 94 42 50
mosiaSvili maka 599 97 25 55
injgia nene 591 71 39 98
sakaruli giorgi 555 42 42 90
qemokliZe levan 593 16 01 40
mamulaZe xviCa 598 41 12 26
deviZe daviT
stilisti rusudan quTaTelaZe;
redaqciis misamarTi:
Tbilisi, gudauris N3,
pirveli sarTuli, bina 4;
tel.: 294 69 77;
sareklamo ganyofileba,
gavrcelebis samsaxuri
Savlego cixelaSvili 599 19 19 10
gazeTi ibeWdeba stambaSi `tori~
ISSN 2346-8025
294 69 77;
qronikaqronika@gmail.com
40 N16 (318) 21.07-27.07.2020 w.