ABC Bush Telegraph Interview with Cameron ... - Greg Hunt MP

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permanent sequestration, it is not for fake sequestration, which is what the 25 years would amount to. Cameron Wilson: So it is not negotiable from your point of view? Mark Dreyfus: It is not up to me to negotiate. The international rules agreed under the Kyoto Protocol require 100 years. That is what is regarded as permanence and it is simply foolish to suggest – it is leading the farmers up the garden path in effect – it is foolish to suggest that you should have a methodology that is based on a 25 year sequestration because the credits won’t be worth anything. The reason they won’t be worth anything is that those that want to buy carbon credits as offsets want to know that it represents real reductions. Cameron Wilson: Greg Hunt who do you see as buying these so called 25 year carbon credits? Greg Hunt: Well look there are a series of options here. The first thing is that with respect to Mark, he just went through a whole series of different methodologies, which don’t require a century long commitment. And you don’t need a century long commitment. What you do need is scientific integrity that reduces emissions, that allows farmers to participate. We are involved in the process as a country of helping to define the international rules. Farm groups are involved in that. This isn’t difficult stuff. This is about shaping our environment. And the problem at the moment is we are getting 100 per cent of nothing. And 100 per cent of nothing, is still nothing. So the government has set in place a system, which in this respect is destined to fail. It is simply not going to reduce emissions, it is not equated to the real world in which farmers live and therefore Australian farmers are being locked out on two fronts. They are being locked out in terms of domestic participation and we have just had rules go through the Parliament where an agreement with Europe, where they have been locked out of any engagement with Europe. Not until 2015 not 2016 or 2017, but until 2018. So the farmers have been given a dud deal on two fronts and been locked out twice now. Mark Dreyfus: Well I have to interrupt there and say Cameron that Greg is simply misleading there as he has done for so many months now in relation to all aspects of the carbon price. The demand for carbon credits right here in Australia, from the large polluters in Australia, who are paying the carbon price is more than 30 times greater than any expected production of credits under the Carbon Farming Initiative. So we have got hugely greater demand right here in Australia for the carbon credits, which are going to be produced. And it is clear that what we have from this Opposition is talking down of Australia’s prospects, misleading the public about the carbon price in all its respects. And the key thing is under a Coalition Government there would be no carbon price and without a carbon price you don’t have a carbon market and that’s the end of the Carbon Farming Initiative as well. That’s the bottom line here. Cameron Wilson: The Coalition has said that it is committed to the Carbon Farming Initiative. I want to push on. I want to look at soil carbon as well. I think you have both made your points around this issue. My guests on Bush Telegraph are Mark Dreyfus, Parliamentary Secretary for Climate Change. Also Greg Hunt, the Shadow Minister for Climate Action. Greg Hunt, back to you. How important is soil carbon or storing carbon in soil as a centrepiece to the Coalition’s policy?
Greg Hunt: Well it is one of many different options. We think it has potentially the greatest opportunity of any means of abatement, but it is one of many. Our approach is to have a reverse auction so in the way that Australia set up probably the most effective water buyback system in the world. In the same way that the government is now looking to reduce consumption of water through infrastructure based on the lowest cost per mega litre of water, through infrastructure investments. We use that precise approach of a buyback – a carbon buyback – whether it is soil carbon, revegetation, reforestation, whether it is capture of waste coal mine gas, waste landfill gas, energy efficiency, cleaning up not closing down power stations, any one of a numerous range of abatement activities would be available to reduce emissions. And we will do it on the lowest cost basis so as we get the maximum benefit for Australia. We will simply hold a reverse auction. It is a very well established system. It is exactly what the government does with water and endorses on water. It is the same mechanism across two different types of resources and it is simple, it is a way forward and soil carbon would have an important role in that. Cameron Wilson: And where does the money come from to pay for this? Greg Hunt: We are providing $300 million, $500 million and $750 million over the first three years. It is exactly as the government buys back water. The difference is we will be funded in our scheme and we are not trying to push this off until 2024. Cameron Wilson: So the public pays for the carbon sequestration under your plan. Whereas business pays under the Government’s plan. Greg Hunt: Well the public does pay under the Government’s plan that they pay in the form of electricity prices, gas prices, fertiliser prices, refrigeration prices and the farm community is living the reality of the carbon tax at the moment. We saw a 15 per cent electricity rise for the first quarter announced only last week. Two thirds of that were from the carbon tax. So the public is paying, but they are paying in a way that is incredibly inefficient. Prices go up, but emissions don’t go down. Cameron Wilson: So finally Greg Hunt if I could ask you to score the current system out of ten, what would you give it? Greg Hunt: Four out of ten and the reason I would say that is the intention is right, the focus is right, the methodology and timeframes are unjustifiable. Cameron Wilson: Mark Dreyfus you have failed on Greg Hunt’s account, who would you score the system so far? Mark Dreyfus: I am scoring it very, very highly because that is Australian farmers are telling me. They are really enthusiastic about this scheme and are looking forward to being able to use the methodologies on their farms and Greg didn’t answer your question about soil carbon. That’s the bottom line. The soil carbon according to the Liberal Party, is capable of producing up to half of the emissions reductions, the pollution reductions… Greg Hunt: …well absolutely and I am more confident now than I ever was… Mark Dreyfus: …that is just feeding another myth to Australian farmers. It is a nonsense. CSIRO has made it absolutely clear that soil carbon, at best, is capable of producing about half to one per cent of the emissions reductions that we need. And for Greg Hunt to ignore
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ABC Bush Telegraph Interview with Cameron ... - Greg Hunt MP

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