3 4 CHAIRMAN: Good morning Mr. O'Neill. 5 - The Tribunal of ...

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361 body of councillors; is that right?2 A. Just repeat that, please?3 Q. 202 When you discussed the matter with Mr. Lawlor, did you discuss only the4 question of his own vote or did you discuss, for example, how the Fianna Fail5 vote was likely to go in the event of your proposing a motion or in the event6 of your having a motion proposed to rezone the lands?7 A. I don't remember specifically, but it would be normal and natural that there8 would be a general discussion about all the groupings.9 Q. 203 Well would there be a --10 A. There's no way I had a discussion with him, Mr. O'Neill, about his own vote11 only and other votes not being talked about.12 Q. 204 I accept that that would seem unusual if that had been the case.13 A. It didn't happen.14 Q. 205 Did you have before you a list of the councillors who were the elected15 representatives at that particular time and did you go through it to ascertain16 what was likely to happen, to see whether or not at the end of the day the vote17 would go in your favour as opposed to --18 A. Mr. O'Neill, I wouldn't have a list of councillors in my pocket. I would have19 had a list. It was readily available to everybody, but I was so familiar20 with the situation because of my political activities.21 Q. 206 Right.22 A. That three quarters of the 78 councillors would have known me to talk to.23 Q. 207 Right.2425 CHAIRMAN: We might just take a ten minute break.2627 MR. O'NEILL: Certainly.2829 THE TRIBUNAL THEN ADJOURNED FOR A SHORT BREAK AND RESUMED30 AS FOLLOWS:Premier Captioning & Realtime Limitedwww.pcr.ie Day 564
371 MR. O'NEILL: Mr. Tiernan, please? Mr. Tiernan, I think you've told us that2 it was crucial to the success of your project that there would be a majority3 vote by the then elected members of Dublin County Council in favour of the4 material contravention application that you would initiate through councillors5 and which would be considered by the general body of councillors; Is that6 right?7 A. Yes.8 Q. 208 And obviously therefore it's a numbers game as to how many are going to be in9 favour of your project, how many are going to be against because it was a10 majority vote and it was necessary to secure the motion; isn't that right?11 A. I think so, yes, that may have been changed afterwards but I think it was a12 simple majority then.13 Q. 209 It was. And did you go through a list of the 78 councillors to establish who14 was going to vote in favour of your project and who was on the margins, who15 were the people who had to be influenced and who were the people you could take16 it as read would not support the project, it appeared to be a logical way of17 approaching it. I'm just wondering what modus operandi you did approach?18 A. Oh, I did, yes.19 Q. 210 Did you discuss with Mr. Lawlor any individual councillors who may or may not20 be either of assistance or otherwise to the project?21 A. Um, being honest about it, Chairman, I, when I discovered Mr. Lawlor would not22 be supporting it and when I assessed the situation for the umpteenth time over23 a few months. I felt that he was more of a liability than an asset and I kept24 my discussions to an absolute minimum any time I talked to him regarding who25 might vote and who might not vote.26 Q. 211 Well, firstly, did you count him then as a likely abstainer?27 A. I did.28 Q. 212 Reducing the -- require the electorate to 77 votes.29 A. I did. I did not see him voting. Well he told me at a certain stage, I'm30 just unsure at what stage, that he would not be voting for it.Premier Captioning & Realtime Limitedwww.pcr.ie Day 564
Page 1 and 2: 11 THE TRIBUNAL RESUMED AS FOLLOWS
Page 3 and 4: 31 of October 1994 where you say, "
Page 5 and 6: 51 to you that you had been involve
Page 7 and 8: 71 A. Could I see it again, please?
Page 9 and 10: 91 Mr. Goodman out of his just dese
Page 11 and 12: 111 A. Well I'm just not too sure a
Page 13: 131 Q. 62 Yes.2 A. And that it woul
Page 17 and 18: 171 20 pounds in fees to the land r
Page 19 and 20: 191 Q. 91 Are you saying there was
Page 21 and 22: 211 lands?2 A. The plan forward was
Page 23 and 24: 231 Lawlor lived beside it. And I w
Page 25 and 26: 251 advancing his claim to recover
Page 27 and 28: 271 Q. 133 And as much as can be in
Page 29 and 30: 291 second or third time I discusse
Page 31 and 32: 311 meeting. But he actually told m
Page 33 and 34: 331 Q. 174 Right. And did he indica
Page 35: 351 Holdings being the company whic
Page 39 and 40: 391 preferences were clearly Fine G
Page 41 and 42: 411 A. I don't remember it now.2 Q.
Page 43 and 44: 431 motion and we'll see that once
Page 45 and 46: 451 excluded the house and its amen
Page 47 and 48: 471 Council in relation to possible
Page 49 and 50: 491 Esker parish which already has
Page 51 and 52: 511 order was made as required by l
Page 53 and 54: 531 Applicant has not provided suff
Page 55 and 56: 551 A. Very negative report.2 Q. 26
Page 57 and 58: 571 And then it goes on to say that
Page 59 and 60: 591 Q. 276 So that Mr. O'Connor's b
Page 61 and 62: 611 THE TRIBUNAL RESUMED AS FOLLOWS
Page 63 and 64: 631 to the zoning and infrastructur
Page 65 and 66: 651 the application in its entirety
Page 67 and 68: 671 A. Yes, okay. I didn't read it
Page 69 and 70: 691 Now, could I suggest to you tha
Page 71 and 72: 711 A. I might have attended some o
Page 73 and 74: 731 since consideration of the abov
Page 75 and 76: 751 illustrate a concern which was
Page 77 and 78: 771 unreasonable and perverse to be
Page 79 and 80: 791 Q. 332 That was granted subject
Page 81 and 82: 811 isn't that right?2 A. I know we
Page 83 and 84: 831 Mr. Caldwell about the possible
Page 85 and 86: 851 interest. I accept that I know
Page 87 and 88:
871 I don't recall most of them.2 Q
Page 89 and 90:
891 you'd faxed this document, refe
Page 91 and 92:
911 hearing was to go on and to pre
Page 93 and 94:
931 pessimistic view which you expr
Page 95 and 96:
951 encouraged you to the belief th
Page 97 and 98:
971 Q. 418 So it's possible --2 A.
Page 99 and 100:
991 no matter what the value had be
Page 101 and 102:
1011 were under pressure on 25th?2
Page 103 and 104:
1031 Q. 464 You say that eventually
Page 105 and 106:
1051 A. No, Your Honour. My concern
Page 107 and 108:
1071 A. No, I didn't, genuinely, Yo
Page 109 and 110:
1091 Stenclas Kenny and Partners an
Page 111 and 112:
1111 A. I would have had dealings w
Page 113 and 114:
1131 A. That I'm not a hundred perc
Page 115 and 116:
1151 filling station, shops, medica
Page 117 and 118:
1171 drawn up for Finnstown Homes w
Page 119 and 120:
11912 MR. O'NEILL: I know that Mr.
Page 121 and 122:
1211 A. Yeah.2 Q. 539 And again, th
Page 123 and 124:
1231 as Coolamber.2 Q. 553 When you
Page 125 and 126:
1251 Q. 564 Would it have been your
Page 127 and 128:
1271 A. Yeah, the 1985 permission.2
Page 129 and 130:
1291 discussions with Gerry Kinley.
Page 131 and 132:
1311 invoice for land solely to do
Page 133 and 134:
1331 confirmation of most jobs you
Page 135 and 136:
1351 your letter to Mr. Kennedy, th
Page 137 and 138:
1371 involved in the Coolamber land
Page 139:
13912 JUDGE FAHERTY: You said you k
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