Miniatures Kit Bashing Archive for 2005 - Star Fleet Universe

Miniatures Kit Bashing Archive for 2005 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 11:23 am: Edit 

Had some time and parts, and built this kitbash of a Federation DNG. Longer hull, 

inline engines. Not quite so long as the DNH, but still noticably longer than a 

standard DN. 

Federation DNG USS Star League, 

top 

Federation DNG USS Star League, 

side 

It will be for sale, though Bennett Snyder gets first dibs; he already said he might 

want it. 

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 04:25 pm: Edit 

Mike, email sent, plus the mini promised you has been sent. 

Ryan Peck, your minis are also now intransit. 

By Barton Pyle (Bart) on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 07:46 pm: Edit 

SVC, I wanted to let you know. I no longer need stand adaptors. I found a nice 

drill to drill the holes in my mini's. I thought you would like to know. 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 11:26 pm: Edit 

Hey, has anyone done solid modeling for a Gorn PF? I have been fooling around a 

bit in my spare time at work. 

http://www.clan-lmssm.org/mike/gornpf/ 

comments: The first three pictures are done with "perspective view" turned on. 

The last four didn't have it turned on, because I forgot. 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 11:49 pm: Edit 

Ted Geible has done the Gorn PF (two styles). 

The PF booster packs are not full sized engines but small blisters that fit onto the 

main engines. 

There is a picture of some on the G1 deck plans IIRC. 

By aaron_staley on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 04:03 am: Edit 

Alexander Fulton did an excellent kit-bash of the Pteridactyls. I have them 

featured on my website. 

http://awwwdrat.com/Gorn_PF.html 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 07:44 am: Edit

Cute miniatures. 

Where can I see Ted Geible's version? 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 11:34 am: Edit 

http://www.sfbnexus.com 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 01:03 pm: Edit 

Those look good, but I'm not sure about the arcs of the phasers. Having the 

wings be in the same plane blocks the back half of the LS/RS arc. I also think 

they're a little bit too short, but that's just an artistic question. 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 01:09 pm: Edit 

MP: I actually like your design. The last picture is the best. I was mostly just 

pointing out that the Gorn PF doesn't have an engine arraingement like that. WBP 

are attachements on the main engines and they are not as big as you might 

think. 

To understand what they do you need to see that these increase the output of the 

main engine. That is, they are not engines, but a device that overdrives the 

engines. Think of them a NOS Superchargers for PF warp engines. 

I like your wing design. Whatever the case, they look cool. Maybe there is landing 

pads under them and just a third long reach pad in the rear of the craft. 


I agree that I've gone for something of a "non-canonical" WBP, but I'm just 

fooling around, and I didn't want to mess up my nice pretty warp engines with big 

chunks of junk. So I pulled a vague justification from "well they're the same size 

on the SSD". 

I'll have to add some sort of landing pad on the bottoms of the wings; I'm 

thinking that I'll put another pair of landing features on the bottom of the pod 

(the warp engines are mostly empty space, so the CG is pretty far forward. At 

least that's my technobabble explanation.) 

With the wings, I wanted to make sure that you could actually see the launcher 

from all the angles it's supposed to be able to shoot. It can't _launch_ in the 

cross-oblique, but it can _bolt_ in that direction (...right? NRB here at work.) I 

also didn't want the launchers blocking the phaser arcs. 


Another slow day at work. 

http://www.clan-lmssm.org/mike/gornpf/new/ 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 06:09 pm: Edit

Mike, those look great! I love the way you've captured the look/feel of the SFB 

Gorn but given it an edgier, more modern look. 


Thanks! I liked doing the wings, they turned out just like I wanted. Now I have to 

do the variants. That means I need to gin up some G-12 models so I can have a 

fi-con...and an Admin for the PFL...this'll be fun! 

I also need to get to work on some textures. The competition definitely has an 

edge on me in that area... 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 07:50 pm: Edit 

So I've got some G-12s put together. I figured that since I'm already noncanonical 

with my PF style, I might as well go re-invent the G-12. 

http://www.clan-lmssm.org/mike/gornpf/new2/ 

3 shots of a G-12, and a Fi-Con. These clearly need work (the G-12 sorely needs 

details on the warp engines, and I'll probably put wings on it just to see how they 

look.) The Fi-Con obviously needs the mech-links, but the proportions look pretty 

good. 

By Randy O. Green (Hollywood750) on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 10:57 pm: Edit 

Awessome. Now the Romulanss will not have a chance. 

Ssnick 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 07:31 am: Edit 

It's kind of unfortunate that the Gorn decided to use a heavy weapon that has so 

many sibilants. "Launch the Type-ESSSSS PLASSSSSS-MAAASSSSSSS!" "Sssssay 

it, don't sssssssspray it, sssssssir." 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 11:17 am: Edit 

Man...if you're into kitbashing, you might want to check this auction out. 

Lots of Enterprise Parts 

By Randy O. Green (Hollywood750) on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 10:32 pm: Edit 

Jusst hold the Lyranss sstill Cat. And play with whatss left. 

Ssnick 

By Nick Samaras (Koogie) on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 11:21 am: Edit 

Hello, I am looking to buy/trade for a an old Federation CL left warp engine and 

two sesnor dishes. I need these to complete 2 old Fed CLs and the Ktibash pack is 

not on the cart. Thanks

By Asuryan on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 11:38 am: Edit 

Hiyas I was wondering if any one knew how I could get a hold of a pair of old 

lyran CA engines and a DN center engine. I recently found an old 2200 DN with 

no engines.... cant figure out what I did with them , It was in the bottom of an 

old mini box. 

John 

By Kerry Drake (Kedrake) on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 09:28 pm: Edit 

OK, I found a "box of stuff" and thought some of you guys might be interested in 

it. 

Front Angle 

Right Angle 

Top Angle 

The top angle has a couple quarters on the table for scale. 

Any interest, let me know. 

Oh, yeah, the six on the right are pewter, the others are some kind of semi 

flexible plastic. 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 11:07 pm: Edit 

You have your 1701 and 1701-A crossed and the plastic ones are Micro-Machines. 

By Marc Cienkowski (Marccienkowski) on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 12:28 am: Edit 

I have two questions for anyone who has the answers. 

1. I remember seeing an article, a long time ago, on modeling a plasma torpedo, 

can you direct me to the publication it is in? Or provide any suggestions? 

2. I bought 3 old packages of miniatures labeled "marines". What stock numbers 

were actually released in the 9500 series? And were the castings done by 

Harlequin? 

Thank you for any help, Marc. 

By James McCubbin (Jmccubbin) on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 06:20 am: Edit 

Plasma torpedo: 

Take Green putty and mold it into a commet like shape. When dry, etch lines in it 

for effect. For a more rough edge look, mix sand with the green putty. 

By Troy J. Latta (Saaur) on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 08:05 am: Edit 

I was thinking of a cotton ball with some fluff pulled out on the back end. Spray 

paint fluorescent green or orange and voila! Maybe not as durable as putty, but 

also a lot easier to replace.

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica) on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 10:16 am: Edit 

Or you can use the Q-tip method. Cut the head off of a Q-tip (leaving perhaps a 

quarter-inch of the stick), mount it on a carpet tack or some such, and paint it 

your favorite neon plasma color. Instant plasma torp (and dirt cheap, as you 

effectively get a couple hundred torps even in the smallest dimestore box). 

By John A Schneder II (Keltner) on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 04:21 pm: Edit 

We use Sculpy (which is an oven-bake polymer clay). It is available in a wide 

variety of colors at Hobby Lobby, even day-glow. Just make an enlogated 

'torpedo' shape, cut some of the tail to give it a feathery look, bake for 15 mins, 

glue to a stand (or not as you prefer). You can even write on it in permanent or 

paint marker for the identification number. 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 07:30 pm: Edit 

I used J-B weld quick dry formula; once it becomes putty-like I quickly shaped it 

into the torp. When it dries hard, I drill my stand hole and then paint. You won't 

have to bake. 

By Marc Cienkowski (Marccienkowski) on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 11:06 pm: Edit 

Thanks for the suggestions. Troy, the article I'm looking for talked about cotton 

balls. I think the size is about right for display. I will investigate some of these 

other suggestions also. Jessica, I think the Q-tips will be a bit small for display, 

but the quantity issue will make them an inexpensive play aid. I'll try that one 

too. 

Any luck on history concerning which, if any, marine miniatures were released? 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 09:55 am: Edit 

Federation Battleship? 

http://www.starshipmodeler.org/gallery9/pm_vindicator.htm 

(I didn't do this, I just found it.) 

By John Crawford (Catwhopurrs) on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 12:04 pm: Edit 

Marc 

I don’t know if Harlequin were the original designer's of the figures, however they 

did market the figures under the name “Harlequin Miniatures”. They were Task 

Force Games agents in the UK and also used the name “Task Force Games UK”. 

All this was about 10-12 years ago before the Interregnum. 

At some later point Harlequin produced their own designs for fantasy, Sci-Fi and 

(shudder) Dr Who. Their Dr Who (shudder) figures were actually superior to the 

Games Workshop/FASA figures. I believe Harlequin ceased trading and the 

company is now known as ICON Miniatures (I think – don’t hold me to that bit). 

They no longer produce the figures, TFG starships or the handy little Elite scale

miniatures. 

If you visit to www.sentrybox.com under catalogues, miniatures, Task Force 

Games, they list the old Star Fleet marines range and have some in stock. They 

have a first class service and I have ordered from them on several occasions and 

received packages safely within a week of ordering. Canada to UK. 

Jessica 

“Q-tip” must be an American name, do you have a picture of your plasmas, so we 

can see them, and I will try to find something similar over here. Thanks. 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 02:06 pm: Edit 

A Q-tip is a cotton swab. It's a brand name that's become a generic term, like 

kleenex or velcro. 

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica) on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 02:46 pm: Edit 

These are Q-tips: http://www.qtips.com/ 

By John Crawford (Catwhopurrs) on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 05:42 pm: Edit 

Jessica and Michael, thank-you both. In the UK they are "Cotton buds", never 

heard of them as Q-Tips before. 

I'm now off to raid the girlfriends bathroom supply of them...... 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 12:22 pm: Edit 

Where is Mike Raper?!?! I'm trying to contact him. 

By Tony L Thomas (Scoutdad) on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 01:02 pm: Edit 

ummmm. North Carolina... just kidding. Don't know. I sent him an email a few 

days ago and no response yet. He did email about 1 week ago re: the Lyran STL. 

He'd been extremely ill and unabletodo much of anything... possibly he had a 

relapse. 

By John A Schneder II (Keltner) on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 11:56 pm: Edit 

A question about the a kitbash I am contemplating: 

Are there any significant external differences between a C5 and a C8/9?? I can 

only seem to find art in the modules for the C5. 

Or, if no one knows but has good suggestions, feel free:-) 

--John 

By James McCubbin (Jmccubbin) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 09:53 am: Edit 

Yes. The C5 never really existed..... cause if it did the Feds would have picked up 

on their mistake for the early DN and corrected it in their later DN. The first real 

Fed DN would have come out as the DN+.

Anyway. Since all the ships from that age would be the same size consitancy the 

C5 could be the same size as a C8 mini for a given scenario. The only time they 

would need to be different is if the C5 and the non-early warp ships were in the 

same scenario. Example: C5 and the D6. 

Given the Fed CL is the same as the W-CL I doubt there is any real difference 

from the C5 - C8 except phaser mounts. 

By Martin Read (Amethyst_Cat) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 09:56 am: Edit 

James: The C5 is the Klingon Light Dreadnought. 

The C4 is the Early Years Klingon DN, and the C6 is the pre-GW Klingon DN (with 

no centre-engine disruptors). 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 11:30 am: Edit 

Records are unclear on why the Klingons created a C5 designation after they had 

a C6 but before they had a C7... 

By James McCubbin (Jmccubbin) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 11:33 am: Edit 

DOOH! 

Please replace all my references to C5 with C4 

By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 11:49 am: Edit 

Michael. My guess would be that the original C5 design (like the original D5 

design) was scrapped and, when the DNL design was created, the ability to 

indicate that it was smaller by using a lower C designation, was the obvious 

choice. 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 01:23 pm: Edit 

Andy: Yeah, but at the time the C5 showed up, the Klingons had a C8/9 but not a 

C7... 

By John Kasper (Jvontr) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 02:46 pm: Edit 

Howcum the B2 went into service after the B52? I'm refering to the US bombers. 

By Will McCammon djdood on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 03:41 pm: Edit 

All the military aircraft designators were "reset" in the late 1960's. 

Fighters were well into the hundreds (F-111, etc.). After the reset they were back 

to F-4, F-5, etc. 

The same thing happened with the bombers (there were just a lot less successful

omber programs). They were up past B-70ish numbers by the 1960's. After the 

reset the first bomber program was the B-1 Lancer in the early 1970's, followed 

by the B-2 Spirit in the 1980's. 

By John Kasper (Jvontr) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 09:25 pm: Edit 

Oh! Here I thought it was more or less random. 

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 10:12 pm: Edit 

At one time the USAF was calling the Phantom the F-110, before having to call it 

the F-4 like the USN. 

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 10:48 pm: Edit 

All of the missing plane designators were actually used at some point. Some 

never got past the prototype stage, some never even got that far. 

Example: the F-16 and F-17 prototypes had prototypes built, and after a 

competition they decided to build the F16. But as the F16 did not meet Navy 

requirements, it got morphed into the F-18 and A-18, which got merged into the 

F/A-18 flying today. 

More recent competitions include the F-22 and F-23. 


Also, air-to-air missiles were given "F" numbers for a short time. 

By Robert Hahn (Robh) on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 01:44 pm: Edit 

All numbers from F-1 to F-23 are assigned to aircraft, F-1 though F11 are Naval 

aircraft redesignated. The F-12 was a fighter version of the SR-71. The numbers 

F-13 and F-19 were not assigned, but the F-21 is the Israeli KFIR that were used 

at Top Gun. At the same time, many of the Naval strike aircraft were redesignated 

A-1 to A-7. 

By Will McCammon djdood on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 03:22 pm: Edit 

The Testors model company caused quite a stir in the mid 1980's with their "F- 

19" stealth fighter model kit. The actual stealth fighter turned out to be the F-117 

Nighthawk (it's high number shows the age of the program that developed it). 

Of course in SFB, the F-111 was misnamed as the "Aardvark" for a while... 

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 07:12 pm: Edit 

Misnamed, or intelligence diversion. (I thought it was the A-10 that was being 

called Aardvark.) 

By Daniel G. Knipfer (Dgknipfer) on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 10:49 pm: Edit 

Officially the A-10 is the Thunderbolt. It is referred to affectionately, and more 

commonly by it's pilots, as a Warthog. 

My first base flew A-10s.

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 11:08 pm: Edit 

Bennett - 

I think you're right about it being the A-10 that had been misnamed in SFB. 

That's what I get for posting from work. 

By Troy J. Latta (Saaur) on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 12:29 am: Edit 

Dan: 

My ROTC buddies in college (back when I had the A10 simulator game for my PC) 

that the British name was Thunderbolt and the Americans called it Warthog. 

Heh. I just remembered my roomie was especially fond of that plane after a party 

incident gave him the nick-name "Chunderbolt" 

By John A Schneder II (Keltner) on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 12:49 am: Edit 

Anyone have any suggestions on how to make a Klingon C5 light DN?? The only 

artwork I could find to compare C5 to C8/9 was for the C8V. With those two, it 

looked as if the C5 boom was a little shorter and the 'wings' were not as wide. 

Thoughts?? 

--John 

By Daniel G. Knipfer (Dgknipfer) on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 05:52 am: Edit 

Troy, 

As I said, my first Base was an A-10 base. The nickname for the A-10 is the 

Warthog. The official name is the Thunderbolt II. 

Most American military aircraft have an official name and a nickname. The F-16 

officially is the Falcon. Most pilots call it the Lawn Dart. Well, most non-F-16 pilots 

anyway. 

By James McCubbin (Jmccubbin) on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 09:11 am: Edit 

Take a C7 and add a boom warp engine. Adjust phaser mounts to match C5 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 09:19 am: Edit 

Weren't the C5 DNLs eventually converted to regular DNs? (NRB here at work.) If 

they were, then using a C7 hull might not turn out right. 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 09:47 am: Edit 

As a side note: I would almost have preferred to see the "C7 with a boom engine" 

design as the Klingon DNL, because it gives them a nice path to the actual C7. 

"The design was not considered a success as a 'heavy raider', but after extensive 

reworking it proved to be an excellent heavy battlecruiser." 

By James McCubbin (Jmccubbin) on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 09:57 am: Edit 

What??? NRB at work!!! Heathen!

(Nobody will know my secret that I don't have mine at work either) 

By Tony L Thomas (Scoutdad) on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 10:28 am: Edit 

Ha! I keep my MRB (along with my F&E rulebook)in my truck (which is my 

office...). Whenever I'm sitting on a jobsite, waiting for a contractor to get ready 

for my inspection... I tend to read, and reread the rules. Hasn't helped my playing 

any, but it occupies my time.... 

By John A Schneder II (Keltner) on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 10:43 am: Edit 

There seems to have been only two, one of which was eventually given a stasis 

field generator, the other of which was considered for conversion to the C5M 

(adding the missing systems, but raising the move cost back up to the normal 

1.5). The C5M and the C5X are considered unbuilt so I assume they just stayed in 

their original configuration. 

James, the C7 idea has merit, except the C7 is so much smaller than a C8/9, at 

least as far as mini's are concerned. 

--John 

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica) on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 10:59 am: Edit 

Quote: 

What??? NRB at work!!! Heathen! 

Despite popular belief, I don't have my rulebook at work. Electronic SSD books of, 

well, everything ever done for the Captain's Edition, home-brew Master Ship 

Charts for all of the above, and the entire R- and S-sections reformatted for my 

convenience, but not the rulebook. 

By Scott Stohr (Scooter) on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 08:34 pm: Edit 

Gee, don't people have to WORK at work? 

By Tony L Thomas (Scoutdad) on Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 12:03 am: Edit 

I did, but then I got a promotion. Now I can do F&E Online at work and peruse 

the rulebooks while everyone else works... until that 10 minutes of screaming 

terror comes when someone realizes that there's an engineering problem and I 

get called in to resolve it. 

Oh yeah, I get to read this discussion board also. 

By Marc Cienkowski (Marccienkowski) on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 11:28 pm: Edit 

I found it! I found it! The article mentioning cotton plasmas was in Nexus number 

7 ... as a term paper? It was only one line in a very brief article. John Crawford, 

thanks again for pointing out the Sentry Box. They had all the remaining marines

miniatures that I knew of from Star Fleet Times. The pieces are indeed stamped 

Harlequin, and by the same artist as the open packages I had previously 

purchased. Now if I can just find a use for all these Daleks??? 

By Thomas Holz (Thokuh13) on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 12:27 pm: Edit 

Didn't you know the Daleks are those mysterious Andromedans? :D 


Ah-ha, hence the Temporal Elevator...Daleks can't lift themselves off the ground, 

so a Temporal Staircase is right out... 

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 01:23 pm: Edit 

Mike Raper, 

Did you get my e-mail?? If not, please e-mail me so I can reply back to a good 

address. Thanks. 

Garth L. Getgen 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 01:28 pm: Edit 

Yes, I did! Just really busy. I'll get back to you tonight. 

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 11:59 pm: Edit 

Mike, 

Cool. I migrated my e-mail back to my computer, now that Best Buy finally 

coughed up a new, replacement monitor for me. I wasn't sure if I had a current 

address for you. 


By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Thursday, March 10, 2005 - 05:33 pm: Edit 

Mike R. E-mail me ... I have the minis. You still game to kit-bash for me?? If so, 

where do I snail-mail them to?? 


By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 11:10 pm: Edit 

Just received some miniatures from Mike Raper today. Man, are they beautiful! 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 07:48 pm: Edit 

Had some emails about the WYN shark TC I posted over in the mini update

thread. Here are some other more detailed pics from different angles: 

WYN shark, oblique 

WYN shark, front 

WYN shark, aft 

WYN shark, underside 

Now, how to. All I did for this was to draw out a silhouette of the ship sans 

engines on a thin piece of styrene plastic. I cut it out, and put a blob of mastic 

(greenstuff or other ribon epoxy will work) and shaped it with wet fingers till it 

was basically right. Let it dry, did the same for the bottom, then used sanding 

sticks and paper to tighten up the shape. Cut a couple of notches in the wings, 

and on the sides for the engines (from the kitbash pack) and there you go. I have 

the engines to do a DN, so I'm doing the next...soon as I find some sheet 

styrene, that is. Used my last on the shark. 

By Troy J. Latta (Saaur) on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 10:20 am: Edit 

Those engines don't look right, somehow. Are they supposed to be on the bottom 

like that? 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 11:10 am: Edit 

Yep, see module R6 and R7. 

By Troy J. Latta (Saaur) on Sunday, May 15, 2005 - 09:50 pm: Edit 

I would, but a buddy's got all my R-sections so he can decide what to play in our 

upcoming campaign. I'll take your word for it, but it looks weird. Maybe I'm just 

too used to Orion designs (which I see as the basis for the fish hulls) 

By Scott Stohr (Scooter) on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 09:31 pm: Edit 

Excellent work, Mike! 

I'll bet there would be a real bidding war if you made four or five of those and put 

them on eBay! 

Scott 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 07:32 pm: Edit 

Seltorian Cruisers! 

Seltorian CL and CA. 

CL & CA, front view. 

CL makes an overrun. 

Aft of the CL. 

Behind and below the CA. 

CA from above. 

Seltorian Cruisers make an attack run... 

As you can see, these don't look very much like the "official" SFB Seltorians, but

on the other hand I think they look a bit better than MacPaint. The ships do use 

the same boom; note that the CA has its booms rotated, compared to the 

directly-vertical CL. This gives the boom phasers better coverage in the vertical 

firing arcs (which doesn't come into play in SFB.) 

Obviously a lot of work needs to be done; I'm going to add a "Main Battery 

tower" which has the WB and the other two PC, and of course all the phasers 

need to be added. The impulse-engine vents and shuttle-bay doors will go on the 

back surface, and I will probably put some more effort into the warp engines. 

Then it's on to the greeblies... 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 07:52 pm: Edit 

Mike R: Incredible work. 

Mike P: Wonderful and imaginative look for the selts. You are going to add some 

more detail to them I presume? 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 04:41 am: Edit 

Here is a Hydran Overlord (very well done by Xander Fulton). I will be attempting 

one of my own soon. 

http://awwwdrat.com/Hydran_Overlord.html 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 08:19 am: Edit 

Nicely done! The Overload is on my list to do, I just haven't gotten 'round to it 

yet. Need a good pic first, and I don't know where one is. 

By Barton Pyle (Bart) on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 08:08 am: Edit 

Great job! I know I can't do anything like that. But there is something I 

personally don't like about them. I can't figure it out though, they just don't look 

like what I would have imagined. 

It may be that they are streamlined. I don't know. 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 08:40 am: Edit 

Barton, same here, but it is an excellent attempt. 

Myself, I feel the forward area of the current example above should be slightly 

smaller and be more multi-facetted (as shown on the picture in the actual Hydran 

OV R-rule). 

By Geoff Conn (Talonz) on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 12:38 am: Edit 

Beautiful selts. 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 10:24 pm: Edit 

Geoff/Aaron: Thanks. Yes, I do have more work to do, but as this is strictly a 

"free time" project, I won't get much done in the next little while (since we have

a big design review at work, and everyone's going bughouse.) 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 09:31 pm: Edit 

Ladies and Gentlemen: 

http://awwwdrat.com/Seltorian_CC.html 

John Schneder II is certainly a master!! 

By Bruce A. Campbell (Ltlsoup) on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 05:56 am: Edit 

Mike 

Your Seltoran ships are awsome! The could almost make me want to play them. 

Maybe your ships could be the X2 Seltoran that are being discused over in the X 

thread. 

By John A Schneder II (Keltner) on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 12:08 pm: Edit 

Aaron, 

WOW, I never thought you would give such a glowing review, or so many 

pictures:-) Thanks for the kind words 

--John 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 01:20 pm: Edit 

John, it DOES look nice. Better, certainly, than I could ever do! 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 01:20 pm: Edit 

John, What did you expect? Ho hum, here's another mini? NEVER!! Your selt 

(further, the vast majority of your work) is truly a sight to behold; whether on the 

the website or sitting in the palm of your hand. Keep it up, it's absolutely 

fabulous!! 

By John Robinson (John_R) on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 01:29 pm: Edit 

I think I have said it before, but if not, I will now. All of you impress the heck out 

of me. I do not understand how you can get such fine detail on these tiny things. 

Maybe it's just my fat fingers, but I can't approach this level of details on 1:48 

scale models. 

I'll go back to enviously watching your displays of skill. 

By Dale McKee (Brigman) on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 01:47 pm: Edit 

Here's my paint job of a Selt CA Mike Raper sent me: 

http://home.att.net/~dalemckee/minis/Minis_Selt.jpg 

http://home.att.net/~dalemckee/minis/Minis_Selt1.jpg


John R: Try a 10/0, or even better (and what I just bought no more than an hour 

ago), an 18/0 brush. 

Practice is they key. Most of my miniatures have been stripped and repainted at 

least 3-4 times. There was ALOT of trial and error involved. I've got really good 

vision, but I still felt the need to go buy a table top magnifier. 

Out of it all, when determining what will turn out to be the best artwork, I think 

the material is 10%, the tools are 20%, and experience through practice is 70%. 

It is still my opinion that anyone can do this, but if you don't have someone there 

to teach, you will need to go through alot of trial and error. 

I will be doing some painting at Origins for those who want to see what I do 

(which is miniscule compared to the work seen by Mike Raper). 


Dale, as Cartman would say; "SweeeeEEEEET!" 


Dale, you're still the man! Good gracious, that's pretty. I really like the subtle 

metallic tint it has. Truly awesome! 

John, one thing you can try for details is toothpicks. They work great for things 

like phasers, lights, etc. Also, alot of times using a wash will fill in spaces you'd 

never be able to otherwise. For example, a 50/50 wash of coral blue and water 

makes a great filler wash for the inside of Fed engines. Aaron is right; practice is 

the key, and a willingness to experiment is a big help. 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 02:33 pm: Edit 

Dale McKee: Holy Wow Man! Really great work! Mike does really great cake and 

you sure did it justice with a spectacular icing job! 

Mike Raper: Heh, I use toothpicks too. Sometime I bite on the end just a little to 

losen up the wook so it holds the paint a bit better. Have you tried that? 

A little more nibbling and it breaks up the wood grain so that its like a tiny, short 

brissled brush. This works good for getting paint into sharp little corners and up 

into spaces that other brushes lap over. 


Mike, Aaron, thank you! I forget the name of the talented sculptor who did this 

mini, but it was a joy to paint. 

To get the metallic sheen, I base-coated it the mini in "Mithril Silver" and then

washed it with a custom-blend Green Ink... I used to have some of Citadel's 

"Green Ink" but they discontinued it in favor of "Dark Green Ink", which is no fun. 

So I mixed in some "Yellow Ink" and voila. The goal was to get a shiny look 

similar to a preying mantis... 


Mark James did the sculpting. He provided two for me; one for Aaron's TC 

collection at origins, and the other for me. I gave it to Dale, thinking he'd do a 

great job with it, and I was right! 

Loren, I don't bite the end off, but I do tamp them down just a bit to flatten the 

tip. 


Mike, ya no, don't bit the end OFF. Just sort of squish it with your teeth at the 

very end 1/16". 

Another trick I've used is to split the end with a razor knife (very carefully or 

course). This split makes the tooth pick work like a quill pen. I've been able to get 

some very fine detail using that methode (like for the yellow cresent on the red 

Federation stripe and Klingon lettering). 


On the subject of willingness to experiment, I've found that any fear involving 

having to strip and redo the paint job on a mini is completely unjustified. 

You know those new, really cheap, battery powered toothbrushes? Get that 

(about 5 bucks) and get the heads with firm bristles. Once the mini has been 

sprayed with the furniture stripper and set for 15 minutes, use rubber gloves and 

hold the mini inder running water and scrub it with that electric toothbrush. It 

makes the job extremely pain free. (Oh yeah, a little face mask is a good idea too 

in order to protect your resperatory system, and goggles for your eyes) 

So don't be afraid to screw up; you can ALWAYS start over!! 


Aaron, what a great idea to use those electric toothbrushes! 


Loren, you bet, it's saved me hours of work. When I stripped all my Hydrans and 

completely changed the paint scheme, what would have been a 3-4 hour job 

stripping 100+ mini's turned into 1 hour. Believe me, it's the way to go! 

Quick safety note kids, when finished, put it in a zip lock bag labelled "not for 

hygeine, utility use only" and store it AWAY from the bathroom. You do not want 

someone to accidently brush their teeth with furniture stripper. (although in my

case it might help). 

By Mark R. James (Mark) on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 05:57 pm: Edit 

Dale I just saw the awesome paint job. You certainly have a creative way with the 

paints. I thank you for the praise and I'm glad that you enjoyed working with the 

blank canvas that I sent you.Both you and Mike did great jobs with covering up 

the mini flaws that as the sculpture only I know of. 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 07:55 pm: Edit 

Dale: great paint job! (And I like your art for my story, too...) 

Mark James: Great minis! Got any more? (I find myself becoming more and more 

of a Seltorian fan every day...) 


Mark: Thank you! You really crafted a masterpiece there. Beautiful work! 

Michael: Thanks, glad you liked the art! I always hope the authors of the stories 

like my illustrations of them! 

-D 

By Barton Pyle (Bart) on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 09:15 pm: Edit 

Dale, all I have to say is....WOW! 

By John A Schneder II (Keltner) on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 10:26 pm: Edit 

Mike, Aaron, thanks again for your kind words and praise. 

Dale, stunning, absolutely stunning paint-job. 

--John 

By Xander Fulton (Dderidex) on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 11:40 pm: Edit 

Dale's paint job is completely stunning - I'd love to see a fleet painted in that 

scheme. 

Hell, what you could do to the Tholians with that 

technique....*shudders*....maybe I WON'T be entering that next mini contest 

against that kind of competition.... 

(LOL) 

By Dale McKee (Brigman) on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 02:17 pm: Edit 

Xander: Thanks! I haven't exactly been setting the mini-painting contests on fire 

lately though. We'll see; I haven't actually painted my Tholian fleet, but plan to 

before the next contest. 

Barton, John, thanks guys, I'm glad you like it.

I originally stumbled onto this scheme while painting my GAIM fleet for B5 Wars. 

Since the Selts were also bugs... and since I paint my Roms and Klinks various 

shades of green and needed a "different" green for 'em... I figured it would look 

good! 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 02:54 pm: Edit 

Dale, maybe...but this is your month. Your Gorns always look better than anyone 

else's. I almost didn't bother to enter, but figured I'd go out swinging. 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 08:03 pm: Edit 

Some more time into the Neo-Seltorians. 

Heavy Cruiser. Note the weapon-battery tower with 2xPC and "WB System" (it's 

one system, but it's extensive enough that it takes up two boxes on the SSD.) 

Also, some further detail work on the warp engines; phaser emplacements on the 

forward hulls; and of course the detail on the forward hulls. 

Light Cruiser, aft view. Impulse engines and shuttle-bay. (I plan to add doors to 

the shuttle bay, but that's going to have to wait for a time when I'm feeling 

fiddly.) 

Light Cruiser, Forward Hull detail. 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 08:21 pm: Edit 

I like those very very much. The details make them much better. 

By Dale McKee (Brigman) on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 08:51 pm: Edit 

Mike Raper: Dude, thanks muchly. I'm glad you dig my Gorns. Heh, some of my 

prize Gorn minis were built by you, so it's a good thing! 

Michael Powers: Wow, those are really cool! 

By Tony L Thomas (Scoutdad) on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 09:31 pm: Edit 

Aaron: I agree with the don't be afraid to experiment comment. You wouldn't 

believe the number of times I striped the STT mini and restarted before I got it 

right. 

I do have a different theory on brushes than everyone else it seems. All of my 

Lyrans (heck, all of my minis...period) were painted witha grand total of 3 

brushes. A #3 flat brush for blending colors, a #1 brush for the big areas, and a 

5/0 for the "fiddley-bits". 

You are correct about the electric toothbrush - its a big timesaver. Some Easy-Off, 

a sink of running water, and an electric toothbrush. You can strip an enire ebay 

purchase in minutes... 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 08:31 pm: Edit

Final work on the Seltorian Cruiser. (these pics are a bit bigger than the last two 

series.) Detail added to rear hull; phaser and tractor emplacements incorporated. 

I could probably do more with the warp engines, but I'm tired of messing with 

this model (I am doing this in my free time, after all.) Same with the shuttle bay 

and the "sockets". 

The Tholian's worst nightmare: A Seltorian DNL. 

DNL, over-the-shoulder. 

CA, aft view. Hull striping and tractor emplacements. 

CA, starboard phaser blisters. Offensive phasers are slightly below centerline; 

Defensive are right on it. 

CL, flyby. 

Next project: Probably the DD/FF. I have a concept sketch for the DN/BCH, but I 

would prefer to do a "Alpha Sector Strike Force" picture first. 

By James McCubbin (Novahawk) on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 09:24 pm: Edit 

Tony, I use just about the same. 

Basecoat brush, dry brush and 0/3 detail brush. That's all I need. 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 09:37 pm: Edit 

Me,too. Mid-sized soft brush for base coating and washing, and two smaller 

brushes for detailing. Plus toothpicks for small details. Not much else I can really 

use. 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 09:44 pm: Edit 

Michael Powers: While a Seltorian DNL would be no joy for a Tholian I can assure 

you that their worst nightmare is something quite different. And it's scary enough 

that it totally freaked the Klingons out when they found out about it. 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 06:01 pm: Edit 

After taking a few days off to resupply, the Seltorians attack! FEAR THE BITING 

BUG! 

Seltorian Destroyer. 

Destroyer, perspective. 

Destroyer, aft view. Shuttlebay, impulse engines, and tractor emplacements.

Destroyer, top view. 

Frigate. Federation Intelligence debated endlessly whether this ship was a variant 

of the Destroyer or an entirely new class. At one point, the text-based reports 

were calling it the "Centipede-L" while the voice-over claimed that it was the 

"Stag Beetle". This mix-up did little to inspire confidence in Fleet Intel. 

Frigate, aft high. Note "conning tower" with web-breaker. 

Seltorian CA, CL, DD, FF. 

CL and DD, top view to compare size. 

CL and DD, aft view. 

Phaser emplacements, DD/FF. The phaser-1 was mounted on a tower to give it a 

better field of fire. 

New Heavy Cruiser. 

CA and NCA. 

The next several images are side views of the ships. 

CA 

NCA 

CL 

DD (or FF) 

Seltorian Fleet. 

Next up: the heavy hitters, BCH/DN. (And possibly the PF.) 


Finally, I'm finished. I could do a PF, but I've about run out of steam. 

Big, Bad, and Beautiful. The Seltorian Dreadnought. 

Aft view. Interestingly, the Seltorian DN still only has two tractors. 

Overhead view. I really wish I had something better than I-DEAS to do my 

renders. 

Side view. Note the difference between the heavy hull's warp engines, and those 

on the lighter hulls. 

Weapons emplacements. As you can see, I recycled my previous models for

phasers and particle cannon. Why re-invent the wheel? Or the destructive 

subspace phase-harmonization device, as it were. The "bubble" at the top of the 

conning tower is not another phaser, but is in fact a flag bridge / command 

station for Tholian overseers. On rebel Seltorian ships, these are converted to 

propaganda centers, with a library of politically-approved videotapes detailing the 

iniquities of the Tholians. 

Heavy Battlecruiser and Destroyer. 

The last thing many a rebellious cruiser captain ever saw. 

The Seltorian Fleet! Mixing Home Galaxy and Alpha Sector units. This shows all 

the ships I modeled. (The Selts sure did get a lot of mileage out of that basic 

cruiser hull.) 

Seltorian ships, size comparison. 

Seltorian shuttle! Federation Intelligence gave this tiny ship the reporting name of 

"Japanese Beetle". 

Front View. Shuttles were ubiquitous in any Seltorian settlement; no other 

service-vehicle design of any kind was ever seen. 

Top View. 


Oh, I forgot. 

Seltorian Cruisers explore strange new worlds, looking for Tholians. 

A Seltorian battle-fleet cruises through open space. 

By Tracy M. Bovee (Tmmm) on Friday, July 01, 2005 - 12:26 am: Edit 

Quote: 

To get the metallic sheen, I base-coated it the mini in "Mithril Silver" and 

then washed it with a custom-blend Green Ink... I used to have some of 

Citadel's "Green Ink" but they discontinued it in favor of "Dark Green 

Ink", which is no fun. So I mixed in some "Yellow Ink" and voila. The 

goal was to get a shiny look similar to a preying mantis... 

Can I assume this is in reference to the Seltorian miniatures I saw? If so, allow 

me to add my kudos ... a very nice job, Mr. McKee!

I very much appreciate the success with your ink blend in achieving finish with 

good shading, and also solid efforts in both your detailing and insignia. The latter 

especially, as I know how hard it is to handle them with any consistency. 

Again, good job! 

By Barton Pyle (Bart) on Monday, July 04, 2005 - 11:26 am: Edit 

I just tinkered with this and thought I would pass it along. By using the 2 new 

saucer sections of the Fed CF and GSC it is really easy to make a Fed Scout and 

Fast Destroyer. All I did was buy those two ships and a DD/SC pack. Use the two 

engines of the DD/SC pack and mount them on the 2 new saucers. 

The nice thing is, all I have to do now is use a bit of puddy to fill in the sensor 

hole of the DD/SC saucer and I have enough parts to make 2 Fed CA's. So 

nothing is wasted. 

It may be a bit over balanced for the stand, but to solve this is to get 2, 1/4" 

fender washers and glue them to the bottom of the plastic stands. 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Monday, July 04, 2005 - 11:50 am: Edit 

Uh-oh, Barton and I are in a race to finish the first Fed SC kitbash with the new 

GSC saucer!! 

Folks, Barton here has a set of miniatures that he's done that are EXCELLENT (He 

showed me at Origins). I will be setting aside some space on my website to 

feature his work; it is very fine. 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Monday, July 04, 2005 - 12:38 pm: Edit 

So how did they turn out? I haven't seen any of the production peices yet. I made 

the GSC saucer pretty thick; how did it look? 

By Barton Pyle (Bart) on Monday, July 04, 2005 - 01:37 pm: Edit 

They are still thick. But they look cool. I'm happy with mine. 

No Race here Aaron. I won't start painting anything I got at the con until I get my 

klingons finished. That will make me put the time into getting them done. 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Monday, July 04, 2005 - 03:03 pm: Edit 

Mike R: Truly awesome!! Some excellent assemblies and kitbashes are 

forthcoming. 

Barton, understood, it was just a good natured joke. I have to do a gazillion 

measurements for Ken B tonight while at work; so I'm not even bothering to 

unpack that much.


I know it was a Joke, But If I don't do it this way I'll never get my klingons 

done...... 


Good. I had to make the GSC thick, both for aesthetic reasons and for 

functionality. The ship shows a bunch of boxes in the saucer, and it isn't any 

wider; so, I figure thicker might work out. And, a thicker saucer gives more 

protection to the sensors when casting. Sounds like it all worked out, except for 

those damned nacelle supports on the new DN's. Fixing those right now, though, 

so let's hope they'll be in production soon. 


Take your time Mike. I know I'm looking forward to the new DN's but I can wait. I 

think we would rather them be done right and take a bit longer then done poorly 

and be out now. 


Oh, I will. I always try to do them right; I don't particularly like the idea of 

something coming out that I did that isn't good. It's an easy fix, though, and 

won't take long. 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Sunday, July 10, 2005 - 11:05 am: Edit 

Does anyone know of a single-user 3D modeling package that isn't terrifyingly 

expensive? I mean, everyone always says that they use 3D studio, but the only 

way I'd be able to get that would be to steal it, and I'm a little old for that sort of 

thing. 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, July 10, 2005 - 12:11 pm: Edit 

There are many 3D packages to choose from. Blender is an open source package 

that is pretty powerful. Bryce is used to create natural scenes but is capable of 

fairly realistic modeling. It's pretty cheep. 

There are free versions of some of top packages (Lightwave, Maya, 3DS) but they 

are limited render versions for basic learning and have a watermark of the final 

renders. 

I suggest hitting your local Barns and Noble and picking up a magazine (or at 

least checking it out there) called 3D World by Future Publishing (a European 

publication). It will tell you a lot. You can also check out their web site. 

http://www.computerarts.co.uk/3dworld 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Sunday, July 10, 2005 - 02:28 pm: Edit 

Thanks. 

By Ken Burnside (Ken_Burnside) on Sunday, July 10, 2005 - 07:58 pm: Edit

Mike, if you're looking for a 3-D package that can be used to create computer 

printed "3-D" models for making miniatures, the only package worth looking at is 

Rhino. 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Sunday, July 10, 2005 - 08:14 pm: Edit 

Ken: Now that you mention Rhino, I remember the guys in the stereolithography 

shop talking about it. I'm not so much worried about miniatures, as about decent 

renders. I-DEAS is good for making solids and 2-D drafting, and that's about it. 

By Gary Plana (Garyplana) on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 02:03 am: Edit 

Mike, the 3D ship models used in STARFLEET COMMAND are mostly done in 3DS. 

You might want to consider this for two reasons: 

1. There are a number of tutorials specifically aimed towards building ship 

models, and 

2. Several of the artists have released their 3DS models to the public -- nothing 

like an example to work from, right? 

Just a thought ... 

By John Pepper (Akula) on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 10:12 am: Edit 

Rhino's one of the best for sure! 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 10:33 am: Edit 

I don't have thirty-five hundred dollars lying around to buy 3D Studio. I think I'll 

look into Blender, at least to see how it works. 

Thanks for the advice, everyone! 

By James Lowry (Rindis) on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 01:08 pm: Edit 

You might want to consider Hash: Animation Master. It is a fully-featured 3D 

animation program (which of course, includes modeling) for $300 ($200 if you 

can catch them at a con). 

It's very good, and will do anything you want it to do. The main 'oddity' is that it 

uses spline based modeling instead of poly-based. This is like the difference 

between bitmap and vector art; it takes some effort to wrap your head around it, 

but the result can scale in the same way as a vector image. 

They come out a new major version each year, the upgrade cost is $100 (and 

they don't care how many versions you've skipped). 

http://www.hash.com/ 

And since you'd want to be doing spaceships here's an example... 

http://www.hash.com/stills/displayimage.php?album=30&pos=27

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 01:32 pm: Edit 

AM is good and it keeps getting better and it is very cheep. It has a pretty good 

following too. Many pro artists have it on their home systems. 

By Tony L Thomas (Scoutdad) on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 05:27 pm: Edit 

Since it was time to paint a Tholian miniature for the miniatures contest, I finally 

got all the pieces together to finish up the Tholian BB I've been planning to do 

since the SSJ2 edition of Captain's Log. I think it turned out quite nicely. I also 

added pictures of the Tholian TCC, I painted for Joe Butler. 

Here's the link to the photos: 

Scoutdad's Miniatures Page 


Well, it would have been more impressive if I'd actually parsed the URL 

correctly... 

Scoutdad'd Minatures Page 

By Barton Pyle (Bart) on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 05:37 pm: Edit 

Nice work Tony, I just wish you had smaller pics so I can see the whole thing at 

one time. 


Bart, I do have some resampled pics that are smaller... if you really want to see 

one of them let me know and I'll email it. 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 06:33 pm: Edit 

Yes Tony you did a very nice job. I have one very similar sitting right in front of 

me that Mike Raper made. 

And yes, your pictures are very large. If you use windows you can download an 

XP Power Toy from Microsoft called Image Resizer. When installed it resides in the 

right click context menu when you click on any image. It does a very nice job of 

resizing the image to three choices of image size (and the memory size drops 

dramaticaly too). I find the quality is excelent. 

Barton, you could click on his link and do a Save Image As... to you desk top and 

then view it using your operating systems image viewer. 

By Barton Pyle (Bart) on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 06:35 pm: Edit 

Yes Tony, Please Email it to me.


Loren, the funny thing is... I did resize them. In order to capture the most detail, 

I used a high resolutuion setting, but tehn I used CorelPhotopaint to resize / 

resample them. 

Hmmmmm, I wonder if uploaded the full size images rather than the resized 

ones??? Boy, hat'd be a reeal "blonde" move - wouldn't it... 


Resize them to 800 x 600 or smaller. 


ooops. Thats what I did. I uploaded the original, full-sized files from the camera 

directory... not the ones that had been resized... 

D'uhhh 


Easy to do, blond, brunette, red head or bald. 

And if you're gray you have another excuse! 

By Shawn McManigell (Irish) on Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 12:04 pm: Edit 

I recently ordered the Fed plastic spare parts and was hoping that it would 

include a CA secondary hull. But alas, no such luck. So, would anyone happen to 

have a spare hull out there. I'm attempting to kitbash a BCV and what I really 

need is the shuttle bay "section" of the CA hull. I mention this because if 

someone has a damaged hull, etc. as long as the bay section is intact it would 

meet my needs. I'm afraid I don't have huge cache of spare parts myself to trade 

with(unless someone wants a Fed Tug Hull or Pods)but if anyone is interested 

please let me know. 

Thanks, 

Shawn 

By Shawn McManigell (Irish) on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 02:58 pm: Edit 

Sorry, I didn't mean to bring this discussion to a screaming halt. If someone 

would like to sell a spare secondary hull I would be interested as well. 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 03:37 pm: Edit 

Shawn, I have one you can have. Tell you what; I need a couple of DD/SC sensor 

dishes (the ones you plug in the bottom). I'll trade you the hull for a pair of 

those. I'm itching to do a Fast DD mini, and need the sensor. 

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 04:18 pm: Edit 

Well, those bags of parts do say they're mostly tug parts (since we have zillions of 

them).

By Paul Findsen (Zap) on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 06:08 pm: Edit 

Shawn, 

If you look at the (aged and desperately needing to be updated) minis page on 

my site... 

http://homepage.mac.com/zapski/PhotoAlbum9.html 

... you'll see a kitbashed BCV that was done by John Schneder. Basically the 

secondary hull is made of sculpey, and the struts were made from styrene sheets. 

John posts here from time to time, and you should be able to see more recent 

examples of his work in back pages of this thread and others. 


I know what Shawn is trying to do, because that's how I did the BCV's I did. 

Here's a pic... 

http://www.geocities.com/raperm2002/Fed_BCV_side.JPG 

Only bad part is finding a home for the sensor dish. I put it under the saucer like 

a scout, figuring that A) it looked good and made the thing stand out a bit, and B) 

it fit better. 

By Shawn McManigell (Irish) on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 01:34 am: Edit 

SVC--Yes the Fed parts bag was described as mostly tug parts, but I was hoping 

Mike R -- I know I have at least one of the dishes I'll see if I have two when I'm 

back at my apartment in OK (I'm currently with my family in LA). I'll email you if 

that's OK with you when I get back up there. 

As far as my kitbash plan, you're correct, that is my overall idea, but with several 

twists. 

1. I am going to use a tug saucer for two reasons, I have a spare one and the 

shorter dorsal "neck" gives it a different look. Even more so considering 

paragraph number 2 below.(I'll add the phaser and photon bumps with epoxy) 

2. This is the bigger change is I'm using an old DN secondary hull so the dish will 

be below the forward shuttle bay in the same manner as the DN (of course) and 

the BB. 

By Shawn McManigell (Irish) on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 01:42 am: Edit 

Paul, 

Sorry, I forgot to thank you for the link to your pics on my previous post. The 

"version" I'm trying to put together will end up looking very similar to yours (at 

least I hope it will...)

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica) on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 11:35 am: Edit 

In the "for the heck of it" category, I decided to scratch-build a large freighter of 

my own last Sunday afternoon. I'm rather happy with how it came out after 

painting and whatnot: 

http://www.peladine.com/F-L_1.jpg 

http://www.peladine.com/F-L_2.jpg 

The engines are parts from the old 2300-series Kzinti SCS engine, and the sensor 

dishes are the bases from sensor dishes from the kitbash pack. Hulls are 

comprised of brass tubing, with thumb tacks serving as the end caps. Front, back 

& top structures are cut from strips of an old fridge magnet, and the two phaser 

towers are seamstress pins. The cage-style gridwork on the top is window 

screening material. 

This doesn't quite match up with the by-the-book images of the Large Freighter 

and certainly doesn't match the 2400-series mini, but I figure that there's enough 

variety amongst civilian freighters that variances such as this would occur. 

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 11:53 am: Edit 

Mike, I like that design ... but I'd hate to be the fighter pilot that forgets he's 

launching forward and runs into the dish!!! 


By Carl-Magnus Carlsson (Thereplicant) on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 11:58 am: Edit 

It looks REALLY nice, Jessica. Much better than most minis I have seen. 

The only thing that catch my eye is that the gridwork is not centrelined. And the 

word is just "catch", since I am not nitpicking; 

It's simply that basice human trait of reacting to symmetry you know. But on the 

whole its just a minor thing, and don't detract(w?) anything at all from the 

appearance of your work. 

(I wish I could eat it) 

By Garth L. Getgen (Sgt_G) on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 11:59 am: Edit 

By the way: Mike, Jessica, Aaron ... my kid brother was looking for someone that 

could kit-bah him a set of either absract or humaniod game peices for his handmade 

"Klin Zha" game board. I told him to e-mail any/all of you three. 


By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 01:21 pm: Edit 

Looks good Jessica! I like the smaller gridwork better than the larger ones on the 

2400 mini. Nice paint job, too!

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 01:44 pm: Edit 

Certainly does. Was just thinking something. Kzintis use three nacelles for their 

ships. Wonder why their freighters only use two. You'd think their military 

freighters would use 3 nacelles. 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 05:19 pm: Edit 

Jessica - Exquisite!! 

By Shawn McManigell (Irish) on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 05:28 pm: Edit 

Jessica: Super job! Brass tubes, thumb tacks, pins and magnets -- your call sign 

should be "MacGyver"--any seconds? 

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 06:33 pm: Edit 

Second. 

By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 06:50 pm: Edit 

Motion passed by acclamation. 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 07:49 pm: Edit 

Nice job on the latticework. Stuff like that always makes me break out in a sweat 

(since at some point I always wind up gluing it to myself.) 

Fed BCV: Why not just use the secondary hull from a CVS? 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 09:19 pm: Edit 

Because there is no CVS. Not yet, anyway. I'm supposed to do one, but haven't 

gotten to it yet. Plus, the CVS uses the standard CA engines, not the in-line 

engines of the BC. 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 11:51 pm: Edit 

Oh, I see. As for the engines, it's a kitbash anyway...I was just thinking that there 

already was a CVS and you could use the hull as the basis (and it would have the 

dish in it.) 

There is a "Through-Deck Shuttle Carrier" conversion for the Polar Lights 

Enterprise; have you seen that? 

By Scott Stohr (Scooter) on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 06:57 pm: Edit 

I was going to sit down today and paint a Kzinti DW and FF as a Wyn but, before I 

started, I checked the SSD. I didn't realize until today that the Wyn versions of 

each has an extra warp engine. My kit-bash pack doesn't have engines that small. 

Other than destroying a whole mini, any ideas on how to get these engines? 

By John Erwin Hacker (Godzillaking) on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 01:18 am: Edit 

Scott: 

If memory serves me they sell spare parts off of the cart. Check there.

"THE GODZILLAKING". 

By Scott Stohr (Scooter) on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 04:14 pm: Edit 

John, 

Already have the kit bash pack. There are no small Kzinti engines in there. Was 

hoping someone had a trashed DW and/or FF they would be willing to canabalize 

and trade. Thanks for the tip anyway. 

Scott 

By Barton Pyle (Bart) on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 07:30 pm: Edit 

I was wondering, what are peoples favorite songs while painting mini's? I've been 

working on my B-10 and listening to Blue Oyster Cults "Veteran of the psychic 

wars" and thought to ask. 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 07:46 pm: Edit 

Actually, I don't listen to music, but put on a movie and just let it be background 

noise; I'm particularly fond of any of my Black Adder tapes. 

By Nikolaus Athas (Nycathis) on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 08:02 pm: Edit 

Scooter: 

As a suggestion why not just 'beef up' the center warp or use a warp engine from 

another race. 

After all these are ad hoc modifications and they dont even need to be the same 

type of engine. 

IIRC the extra engines on these ships are Center warp right? So just make a 

bigger center warp engine to reflect this change - or use a orion one or something 

like that. 

By Scott Stohr (Scooter) on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 10:47 pm: Edit 

Think I will do that, Nikolaus. I was digging through my "scrap heap" and found 

an engine from one of the old Klingon F5's that will work for the FF as an extra 

engine. I'll just put it under the rear hull and slap a lot of paint on it! In the kit 

bash pack I have a Kzinti CA/BC engine that I think I will replace the center warp 

on the DW. Thanks for the suggestions! 

Barton, I just usually turn the radio on to a classic rock station and let it play as 

background noise. 

Scott 

By Tony L Thomas (Scoutdad) on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 12:52 am: Edit 

I tend to do the heavy metal thing while painting:

Ozzy 

Black Sabbath 

Judas Priest 

Yngwie Malmstein 

Derek Sherinian 

etc.; 

Unless I'm painting Feds... then its prog-rock 

Fish 

Glass Hammer 

Spocks Beard (very appropo, actually!) 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 01:18 am: Edit 

Just the music in my head... 

By John Erwin Hacker (Godzillaking) on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 03:48 pm: Edit 

BARTON PYLE: 

I love the soothing sounds of Classical Music when I paint miniatures. There is 

something about Beetohven, Mozart (or for that matter any classical master), 

that get's me in the groove, sort of speaks, to paint. It also gets me into the 

mood to put models together. I just got done putting the 1/350th scale Tamiya 

model of the Battleship Bismarck together. That was a real challenge. Over 700 

parts,wow. 

Until next time from GHDAR PRIME.......... 

"THE GODZILLAKING". 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 06:11 pm: Edit 

I'll play just about anything, but I have to say that I enjoy hysterically over-thetop 

action-movie soundtracks. Hans Zimmer gets a lot of play, among others. 

John H: Did you get any photoetch stuff? If you really want to drive yourself 

insane, try assembling crewmembers in 1/350 scale! 

By John Erwin Hacker (Godzillaking) on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 07:38 pm: Edit 

MICHAEL POWERS: 

Driving myself insane, never my man. Putting that monster together was about 

all I could handle for about 4 months (off and on building, that is). 

I have heard and seen photo-etching products for models in the past but I 

decided not to with this model. I was only giong to put together the parts that the 

model came with. 

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica) on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 08:15 pm: Edit 

John H.,

Yeah, the Tamiya 1/350 Bismark was a fun build...but not quite so intricate as 

their 1/350 Yamato was. The latter took me bloody forever. 


M. Powers, 

Yeah, I agree...Hans Zimmer is good, as is Trevor Rabin. 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 09:04 pm: Edit 

Heh. I just read James Lileks's description of the Batman Begins soundtrack. "Two 

notes. One for each composer." 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 12:13 am: Edit 

Jessica, I was about to get a 350 Aircraft Carrier but have been waiting to get the 

Trupeter one. It's 300 scale (I think) and they produce Air Craft packs so you can 

add to the squadrons for different years of service! 

I haven't got it yet but soon I hope. It's HUGE! 

By Barton Pyle (Bart) on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 07:08 am: Edit 

Jessica, I have the 1/350 scale Musashi. I have been working on it off and on 

since the mid 80's. I don't think I'll ever get that beast done. I'm starting to 

believe that if I do get it done it will be the day I die. I can see it all now. "Yes, 

finally finished....Aaaaarrrrggggghhhhh thud" 

But when I bought it it was only $25 back then so I didn't waste alot of cash. 

By Jessica Orsini (Jessica) on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 09:29 am: Edit 

In the interest of sharing yet more really crappy photography: 

http://www.peladine.com/Bismark1.jpg 

http://www.peladine.com/Yamato1.jpg 

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 09:58 am: Edit 

Terrific looking models, and interesting library. 

By John C. Malis (Malis) on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 08:19 am: Edit 

Nice drapes. 

Malis 

By John Crawford (Catwhopurrs) on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 02:23 pm: Edit 

Jessica, 

Those are both excellent models, love the Bismark particularly.

You posted pictures of your SFB models some time ago, any chance of a few 

updated pictures now your collection has grown? 

I see a few more have appeared under the Yamato. 

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 11:38 pm: Edit 

Hey when putting peices together which is better in terms of strength of bonding 

(I am using JB Quik Weld)? 

metal to metal 

primer-primer 

paint-paint 

metal-primer 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 11:40 pm: Edit 

Metal to metal in the case of JB. 

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 08:11 am: Edit 

Thanks Aaron 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 10:03 am: Edit 

Hey, anybody know the name that was given to the Fed DDF in this latest cap 

log? I'm doing a kitbash, and loaned my copy out and can't remember the name. 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 10:47 am: Edit 

USS Two Moons, named for a Native American warrior. 

Also Mike, I'll hook up my old drive and the stuff you wanted from me should be 

on there. Expect an e-mail today! 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 01:39 pm: Edit 

What's the registry number? 

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 01:44 pm: Edit 

Mike: Where are my rebuilt DNs? You should have been done a month ago. 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 02:08 pm: Edit 

No RN given. 

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 03:35 pm: Edit 

Where is this? The only two moons in the registry or index is a war eagle. I do 

know, however, that the registry isn't complete and neither is the index. 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 03:41 pm: Edit 

SVC: It is the name of the Fed DDF in CL31 page 93, top left. 

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 03:46 pm: Edit

Two Moons is 551 

By Randy O. Green (Hollywood750) on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 10:15 pm: Edit 

Mike, the DDL in my story and on the cover was the Genghis, NCC-501. I assume 

that is the one you were talking about.. not the trick DDF question you posted. 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 08:19 am: Edit 

Nope! The one I'm talking about was the SSD in that issue. Fast DD, with spadehull 

and all. Should be fun. 

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 10:11 am: Edit 

Mike: Where are my revised dreadnoughts? I sent the bad ones back in what, 

May? I need them fixed and back here pronto. 


Got them in early July, and will send them back pronto. Had to find a thicker 

brass stock, as the other (which I used originally) is too thin, and looks bad when 

stacked. 

By Shawn McManigell (Irish) on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 05:59 pm: Edit 

Mike R: 

Just wanted to make sure you got the sensor dish I sent you. I left it attached to 

the "spru-tree" hoping it would travel better that way. 


Yes, I did! Your CA hull should be there any time. 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 11:04 am: Edit 

Sigh. I'm posting this, even though it isn't a true SFB ship. Couple years back I 

started developing an SFB race of my own, the Tycosian Republic. Long dead sim 

race, you see. Designed ships, the beings themselves, and all that. Well, Mark 

James (the guy who did the Seltorian cruisers and that amazing Juggernaut mini) 

saw the stuff and offered to build a CA mini for me based on the pics I had. Well, 

he did, and I painted them up. I can't beleive how closely he gets stuff to the 

pics! He got it exactly right, down to the littlest details. So, while it isn't an official 

mini, I still just had to share pics, because it's just so darn cool to have a mini for 

a race you made up. I'm sure Jessica would agree! So, here's the pics (with a 

Tholian NCA for scale), along with a color drawing of the ship I made that Mark 

used to do it...it isn't included to show any skill in computer drawin on my part, 

but to show just how incredibly accurate Mark is. 

Tycosian CA, front 

Tycosian CA, aft

Color concept drawing 

And, for kicks, a really nice drawing of a Tycosian itself, done by Dale McKee as 

part of a trade; kitbashes for drawings. 

Dale's beautiful picture 

Many thanks to Dale and Mark for helping me make this a much more fleshed out 

and visible project! Even if it never sees print, it sure is nice to have these two 

making contributions. 

By Barton Pyle (Bart) on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 01:10 pm: Edit 

That is one fraken cool mini Mike. Do you have a SSD for it? 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 01:30 pm: Edit 

Yup! 

Tycosian CA SSD 

They are fun to play (well, of course they are to me) if you like direct fire 

weapons and good seeking weapon defense. If you like seekers, though, you'll 

hate 'em, because they don't have any. 

By rjmanning on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 11:09 pm: Edit 

Mike, 

That is totally cool. Is that kitbashed from scratch or did he use another mini as 

the base. 

The picture is neat as well. However, I do have to say it looks like a Race of a 

little more agressive Barney's 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 11:58 pm: Edit 

Barney's from Hell. 

Actually this race is real cool. Lots of neat ideas worked in. 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 02:52 pm: Edit 

I finally got around to scratch building an Admin Shuttle. 

LK's Admin Shttl 

It's too short but I'm close. It's made from styrene and is 3/8" long. It needs to 

be a full 1/2" IMO. 

By James McCubbin (Novahawk) on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 03:21 pm: Edit 

Too small? Not according to all the flack I got for my drones.

Nice shuttle. 


I meant perportion wise. The hull for instance comes from a long strip so the 

height and width are set. As are the piece for the engine mounts and the nacells. 

I can do better. I'll post a pic when I do. 

I think I'm friggin coming down with a flu, dang it! 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 03:55 pm: Edit 

Looks good to me! Maybe a bit "stubby", I suppose, but still a darn fine job. 


Stubby, ya that's what I meant. It's too stubby I think. 

Thanks for the comp. 

And yup, Mr. Flu is my house guest for today. I hope it's a darn short one! 

By Shawn McManigell (Irish) on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 07:38 pm: Edit 

Mike R 

It's good to know my luck is consistent. I just got the envelope from you. 

Unfortunately, the only thing inside was a few sheets of TP. It looks to me like the 

envelope was damaged, probably while being processed at the Post Office by the 

looks of it, because the lower left edge is taped up. I appreciate the attempt. 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 08:31 pm: Edit 

You've GOT to be kidding. Man, that bites. Let me see if I've got another. If I do, 

I'll send it out. Might have, in all the stuff I've got. You're really looking mostly for 

the end of one, right? The shuttle end? 

By Shawn McManigell (Irish) on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 08:59 pm: Edit 

Yes, that is correct. I'm looking for enough of it to mate to the rear end of a DN 

hull, so it would be better if there was "some" hull still attached to the shuttlebay. 

Thanks for spending this extra time looking for a "spare." I have to laugh, having 

read all the "traffic" between you, SVC and the other mini builders mentioning all 

the pieces/parts that you all have put through the mail with apparently no 

problems, that when I got involved the so-called "wheels" fell off. Perhaps one of 

us will hear about a postal sorting machine breaking down due to some strange 

looking piece of FOD. 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 08:47 am: Edit

This looks like it could be a decent Fed DDX: 

http://www.starshipmodeler.com/trek/mm_cordia.htm 

By Gilbert Meurer on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 12:20 pm: Edit 

I previously obtained a "grab bag" of SFB ships from ADB. Among the model 

starships I purchased were Klingon C9 Dreadnoughts. More recently, I ordered 

various Klingon starships including the C8 Dreadnought. I have compared the two 

models and have not noticed any differences in the models. Was there a seperate 

C9 model at one time or was the same model used as the C8 and C9 

Dreadnoughts? Thank you any help. 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 01:02 pm: Edit 

There is no outward difference in appearance between the C8 and C9. Over the 

ages there might have been differences in labling but there really is no way to 

make the minis different from each other. Even on the SSD the difference is only 

a few boxes which makes the C8 the better unit. 

By Steve Petrick (Petrick) on Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 01:21 pm: Edit 

Gilbert Meurer: 

The difference between a C8 and a C9 miniature would be the phasers. 

The C8 would have two wing phasers under the wings of each corner and would 

have a waist phaser-2 separate from the two waist phaser-3s at the rear end of 

the ship on each side. 

The C9 would have only one wing phaser under each wing, and would not have 

the separate waist phaser-2 on each side, essentially the four waist phasers on 

the C9 are all phaser-2s. 

Beyond that, the boom drone racks on the C8 are not noticable, and the area is 

used by the C9 for cargo storage in any case (and for an SFG later). 

Ultimately, surviving C9s were converted in C8s. 

To make a C9 miniature, you need only file off the separate waist phaser mount 

on either side of the deck house leaving the two paired waist phasers that are 

further back on the top of the hull. Then eliminate one wing phaser (the inner 

one) on both wings. 

In essence, there has never been a separate C9 miniatures 

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 02:35 am: Edit 

So... my friendly local gaming store managed to double-order my new mini's. But 

they cut a deal and I bought both sets.

So now I have two packs of the Fed GSC / CF set. 

I have an old Fed DD I kitbashed into a design I now hate, which means I have a 

nacelle with the opening in the top looking for a new mate. 

Hmmm... slot-on-top nacelle... extra Fed CF saucer... I feel a Fed Fast DD mini 

kitbash happening soon. 

A quick lopping-off of the sensor dishes and I get a metal CA mini too. 

By John A Schneder II (Keltner) on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 02:59 pm: Edit 

Mike Raper: 

I believe you were the one that did an ISC battleship a while back. Could I entice 

you to share exactly how you did it?? I have an ISC DN that has been lying 

around waiting for just such a project. Thanks in advance:-) 

--John 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 07:05 pm: Edit 

John, 

Yeah, I did. Not that bad, really. The ISC BB isn't any wider than the DN; it's just 

a lot longer. So, cut it down the middle width-wise with a mitre-box and good 

sharp hack saw. Then drill holes in it, pin it back with about a 3/4 inch gap, and 

fill the space with mastic, greenstuff, or the filler of your choice. Sand,file and 

shape it till it looks right. Then use a touch more mastic or green stuff on the 

bottom, and dab it with a toothbrush to give it that textured look ISC ships have 

on the bottom. Let it dry, use some fast drying epoxy for the extra phasers, and 

there you go. If you like, you can also use mastic to lengthen the engines 

appropriately, too, but you don't have to if you don't want to. Hope that helps! 

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 07:51 pm: Edit 

Mike - 

Since you mastered them both, you'll know. 

Is the saucer on the Fed GSC and the new metal Fed CA the same (beyond the 

addition of the sensor dishes)? 

I'm mainly curious about the thickness. 

As posted above, I ended up with an extra GSC saucer and I'm thinking a quick 

job with the hacksaw and file will give me a factory-identical CA mini. 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 06:22 am: Edit 

More or less, yes. The GSC is a bit thicker, mainly to do two things; one, to give 

the sensors more support for casting. Two, the GSC saucer has a bunch more 

"stuff" in it than a CA, and since it's not bigger around, I asked SVC (on a 

suggestion from Loren Knight) if perhaps it was thicker, instead. He said that

worked for him, so there it is. It also doesn't have the two forward phasers, but 

that's easily resolved with some epoxy and a toothpick. Hope that helps! 

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 05:10 pm: Edit 

Hmmm... I might not use it for a CA then. I'll repurpose it for some other refit or 

kitbash. Thanks for the info though! 


SVC - 

The text associated to the Fed Fast Destroyer in CL31 mentions the name USS 

Two Moons, but gave no hull number. Is there an NCC number assigned to it on 

file somewhere? 

I'd hate to pay to have a decal made and end up with it wrong. Wouldn't really be 

any harm, just "Grrrr" I'd like to avoid. 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 06:29 pm: Edit 

Will, 

It's 551. I asked that same question a couple weeks back. Finished the kitbash, 

but haven't painted it yet. 


Thanks Mike! 

By Shawn McManigell (Irish) on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 03:05 pm: Edit 

Hey MikeR, 

I'm looking forward to seeing the pics of your Fast DD. Speaking of moons, any 

luck finding the a**-end of a CA secondary hull yet? 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Thursday, September 22, 2005 - 09:37 am: Edit 

Hey look, someone made a model of a B-52 Heavy Bomber. 

http://www.starshipmodeler.com/events/ipms2k5/ss_imvc-895s.jpg 

By Scott Alan Woodard (Ogma) on Saturday, October 01, 2005 - 09:41 pm: Edit 

Has anyone ever taken a peek at the Sathar ships from the old Star Frontiers RPG 

from TSR? I just spotted an auction for 8 boxes of the ships with a Buy It Now 

price of $8.99 per box: http://tinyurl.com/a6h94 

You can see some painted ones here: 

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/3389/sathar.html 

Might be worth grabbing a box.

~Scott 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 09:33 am: Edit 

Just for fun, I'm trying to build an Orion DN from scratch. Sort of the same 

method as I used on the WYN fish ships, but this one includes no pre-made parts 

at all. Dale has agreed to paint it up in his patented starfield camo, and he gets to 

keep it (I don't need it, I just wanted to try it out). Now, if there is interest, I can 

take "in progress" pics of it as it goes along. If not, I'll post a pic of the finished 

product. 

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 12:09 pm: Edit 

Always interested to see behind the magician's curtain Mike! 

By michael john campbell (Michaelcampbell) on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 09:44 pm: Edit 

Actually, I'ld just rather see more of the magician's half-naked beautiful 

assistants. 

Actually if you have enough half-naked beautiful assistants then you don't need a 

magic show at all. 

By Tony L Thomas (Scoutdad) on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 10:32 pm: Edit 

Mike, I for one would be most interested in seeing the in-progress shots... 

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 10:57 am: Edit 

MJC: To have no magic show at all, you would do better with the same number of 

half-naked assistants who were fully naked. 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 11:45 am: Edit 

Those poor kids who were all geared up to see magic. 

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 08:20 pm: Edit 

Forget the kids think of the Dads that thought they were only going to see a 

boring magic show...Woot...Moms please take the children out for ice 

cream...thanks. 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 08:00 am: Edit 

Cool. Kit-bashed 2 Fed DDs and 1 Fed SC last night at work. 100% pewter. Just 

waiting on the decals now. 

It's alot easier if you file down the insert leaf on the saucer so that it only has 2 

round pegs and then measure and drill 2 holes in a warp engine. My specially 

weighted stands really work well for this design too. 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 05:09 pm: Edit

Been a pretty unproductive summer for me in terms of kit-bashing...just too 

much going on, and frankly I haven't felt like it. But, I did decide to sort of 

reinvent the Fed battleship mini I produced. I never have really been satisfied 

with the aft hull; too flat. The book describes it as a "greatly widened DN hull", 

which to me says "round". So, using some mastic, the front quarter of a tug pod, 

and some sensors, I scratch built a new hull and paired it up with the engines and 

saucer of an existing battleship. The results, IMHO, are some of my very best 

work. Almost perfectly even, with good straight nacelles and a bigger, beefier 

look. Here are some pics of the finished primed mini...it hasn't been detailed yet. 

http://www.geocities.com/raperm2002/F-BB_new_top.JPG 

http://www.geocities.com/raperm2002/F-BB_new_side.JPG 

http://www.geocities.com/raperm2002/F-BB_new_bottom.JPG 

I'm saving this for FC. Looking forward to that so much, I'm actually going to 

build, paint and keep my own minis. 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 05:17 pm: Edit 

Gah. It's a beast! 

What arc do those rear phasers have? The four bumps on the top of the aft hull, I 

mean. 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 05:45 pm: Edit 

Ya, I like that better too. Well done MIke! 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 06:02 pm: Edit 

Awesome!! 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 08:32 pm: Edit 

Thanks, all. The four aft phasers are RH...they just barely squeak in under the 

nacelles. I'll post new pics later, after it's painted and detailed. 

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 09:02 pm: Edit 

Yikes. Is that a banana for your aft hull or are you just happy to see us Mr. 

Battleship? 

Nice work as always Mike. 

This one (and SVC's orthographic art) make the Fed BB and the DN's look a bit fat 

in the hind-end for my tastes. 

IMHO the original mini is leaner and meaner. 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 09:38 pm: Edit 

Perhaps but I think it matches the SSD and the background better.

Honestly though, I never really liked the idea of just enlarging the aft hull. It 

would have been cooler to have expanded the saucer, even if it was still based on 

the DN saucer. This could have been done by building a "flying bridge" addition 

ala the Miranda class in Trek. The aft hull would still be expanded some but not as 

much. 

By Jeff Wile (Jswile) on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 10:38 pm: Edit 

Gah. 

Good word to describe a monster! 

Good job, once again Mike! 

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 10:59 pm: Edit 

Looks almost like the cover art from a R book. 

By John A Schneder II (Keltner) on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 11:37 pm: Edit 

Nice work Mike:-) I built my Fed BB kitbash the same way, except the lower hull 

was a complete scratch-build. 

--John 

By John A Schneder II (Keltner) on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 11:43 pm: Edit 

If I get this link right, see it here: 

http://homepage.mac.com/zapski/PhotoAlbum10.html 

--John 

By Scott Iles (Smrl) on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 11:59 pm: Edit 

I did mine by taking the rear hull of a DN and lining it with strips of styrene, and 

then filling in the gaps with putty. That gave it the same contours as the original, 

and a beefier look. 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 12:34 am: Edit 

Cahrayzee Battleship Carrier John S.! 

By John A Schneder II (Keltner) on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 10:18 pm: Edit 

Who did the "mythical" Tholian BB in the painting contest (and how did you do 

it)? 

--John 

Loren, thanks:-) 

By Tony L Thomas (Scoutdad) on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 11:08 pm: Edit 

John, 

the Tholian BB in the contest was mine. Of course, the original idea was Mike 

Raper's and he did the first Tholian BB mini... but I like mine better... but then

again, I have a biased view... 

I have an early morning at work... so I won't go into details now... but tomorrow 

I'll post a step-by-step guide. Including all the tips I'll use to simplify things if I 

ever do another one... 

By John A Schneder II (Keltner) on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 11:50 pm: Edit 

Thanks Tony, I'm looking forward to the details to make one of my own:-) 

--John 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 12:23 am: Edit 

Ya, Mike did the first Tholian BB and I like that one best... BECAUSE IT"S SITTING 

RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME ON MY DESK!! HA! 

By Tony L Thomas (Scoutdad) on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 05:49 am: Edit 

John, I've got parts to do a second BB and have been thinking of selling the first 

one. Interested? 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, October 21, 2005 - 10:57 am: Edit 

Someone else might be. I'm pleanty happy with the one I got. 

By John A Schneder II (Keltner) on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 02:31 pm: Edit 

Tony, 

Sure, any idea on price (or trade)?? 

--John 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 06:01 pm: Edit 

Okay, finished detailing the new style Fed BB I made. I have to say I really am 

pleased with this one. Probably one of my best Feds yet. 

Federation Battleship USS Kali 

Federation Battleship USS Kali and production-model DNH USS Star 

Empire 

The second pic is with one of the new DNH mini, made from a leftover master 

copy. It's in there to show both the extended DN hull, and to show a comparison 

with the widened hull on the BB. Looks more canon than the production BB, 

IMHO. Fun to build. Soon be on Ebay, I suppose. It is, unfortunately, nose heavier 

than Barbara Streisand...the troubles of a lead saucer and a plastic and ribbon 

epoxy body. Need to get a B10 stand for it.

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 06:52 pm: Edit 

See now, I think the old mini should be renamed a Battleship Carrier and this 

model put in as the straight up BB. 

I mean, IF the Feds were to build a BB wouldn't it follow they would build a BBV. I 

mean, C'mon, they're the Feds! 

Mike, what would a Fed BBV SSD look like if done in a CVA style? (and would it be 

called the BVA?) 


Got me. They do have the battleship carrier SSD in R5, but I've never thought 

about actually building one. I'd have to read the text on it and try to figure out 

the shuttle bay arrangement and what have you. 


Not that I can see. There is no BattleSHIP carrier. There is a Battle Carrier 

(R2.74) but that isn't a BB design. The Fed BB does have fighters but not like 

what I'm suggesting. 

I'm suggesting a BB done up CVA (MacArthur) style. Just a thought. 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 07:26 pm: Edit 

I would LOVE to see those BBs in bright white!! Awesome job MikeR!! 

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 07:28 pm: Edit 

The Fed BBV (R.93) and the Fed Stellar Domination Ship (R2.94) are in R7. The 

SDS is a BB based SCS. 

The SDS has two large shuttle bay each with a six-position balcony and a group 

of six semi-external mech links for the A-20s underneath. It has 12xF-14, 12xF- 

18, and 6xA-20 

The BBV has has one large shuttle bay with a six-position balcony on either side 

and a large rear bay door. It carries 12xF-14, and 12xA-10. 


D'oh, that's right! It's R7 where the BBV's and SDS's are all printed. 


With ship art too. You know what that means. 

Thanks JRC. It can be hard to keep track of everything. I still haven't integrated 

R7 to 10 into my main R book. 

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 08:07 pm: Edit

Since BBV and SDS have the six position balcony system like the SCS the rear 

engine attachment would need to be the same. 


Hmmm, shouldn't be too hard. Take the mini as shown, and carve out the 

balconies on the sides toward the front just behind the shuttle door. Then build up 

the back a bit and pop on a rear shuttle door, perhaps with a nice undercut for 

the sensor and rear photons. 


Sweet... make sure it can be a master for all us Raper Ship Yard fans! 

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 09:55 pm: Edit 

Mike, 

What saucer and rear hull shape would you use to make a Fed fast BB carrier? 

By Roland Lafleche (Archmore) on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 11:01 pm: Edit 

Has anyone made (kitbashed) any of the WYN Ax ships? mainly seeing if they 

built them using frieghters or if they used pods from verious races 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 04:59 am: Edit 

Yeah, I did one out of a modified freighter. Not much to it, really. 

Joe, for a fast BB carrier (talk about conjectural) I'd go with a spade saucer with 

two engines, and a hull more or less like I described above for the secondary 

section. One of the problems with the art in R7 is that it shows the BB with the 

shuttle bay in the back. But, it isn't...it's in the front. So, that art really won't 

work unless you go with the idea that a BB carrier hybrid would have two bays, 

one in the front and one in the back. 

By Joseph R Carlson (Jrc) on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 01:31 am: Edit 

Has anyone done a Fed DWS or FBS?. Each has 3 sensors. Where would these be 

postioned on the saucer? 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 05:34 pm: Edit 

Having some fun with Lyrans. On a lark, I took a spare CA I had and the center 

warp from a kitbash pack and made a YDN. Here's some pics of the mini (it's 

unfinished), which is on the way to Tony Thomas right now. Can't think of anyone 

who can do a better job with a Lyran. 

http://www.geocities.com/raperm2002/L-YDN_top.JPG 

http://www.geocities.com/raperm2002/L-YDN_bottom.JPG 

By Tony L Thomas (Scoutdad) on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 09:55 pm: Edit 

Woo Hoo! More Lyrans to paint..... 

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 10:40 pm: Edit

Not a real great pic...bad lighting I think...but a great idea nice job once again I 

really dig your kitbash work. 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 07:57 am: Edit 

Yeah, I know. It was a rush pic, taken with no tripod, just to let Tony see the 

mini. I'm sure he'll do it justice both in painting and with the picture. 

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 10:54 am: Edit 

Haven't tried it, Joseph, but I would suggest one sensor in the centerline position, 

then 45 degrees either direction for the other two. That appears to be the 

positions used on the GSC mini, as constructed by the Raper Shipyard 

Corporation, LLC. 

By Tony L Thomas (Scoutdad) on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 10:48 pm: Edit 

Joseph, I have done a Federation DWS. I placed one sensor on the centerline and 

the other two are offset 45 degreesa to the right and the left. I'm headed out to a 

camping trip early in the morning (just took a break from loading the truck to 

check the board), but will upload a picture Sunday evening when I return. 

By Tony L Thomas (Scoutdad) on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 10:59 pm: Edit 

After having been asked how the Tholian Battleship I entered into te painting 

contest was constructed, I offered to post a step-by-step instruction sheet. 

After looking over the unopened minis on the peg-board in the workroom, I found 

that I have enough Tholian minis to construct a 2nd Tholian BB. I then decided to 

photo each step and post the instructions to my website. 

This got me to thinking about writing it up as an article for CL #33 (or other 

issue), so I emailed SVC about the interest level in this article. SVC said that no 

one but serious kit-bashers appreciated the previous articles and most purchasers 

considered them to be so much wasted space. Is anyone on this list interested in 

seeing the article in a CL (so I can petition SVC to "waste" a couple more pages) 

or should I just type it up, make some photos, and then post it to the website??? 

Thanks, TLT 

By Daniel G. Knipfer (Dgknipfer) on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 05:58 am: Edit 

I'm not a serious Kit-Basher but I always love reading how you guys do things. 

However, I read the board often enough that I'd catch it here where you have 

more space and can answer questions. I think the board would probably be a 

better place for kit-bashing articles because of that. 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 06:40 am: Edit 

Tony, 

I'm doing something similar with the Orion DN kitbash I'm doing...mentioned it a 

couple weeks ago, and am about half way done with the build. Maybe we can get

him to put both in on a two page spread? Yours is more a true kitbash, while the 

Orion one is actually a total scratch build. Might make a neat article to show how 

to do both? 

I don't remember how I did the Tholian BB I made, except that it involved lots of 

cutting and fitting plastic spacers to line up the parts. So, an article seeing how 

someone else does it would be cool. 

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 10:07 am: Edit 

That would be very cool to see Tony. It couldnt be more wasted space than a 

good portion of the Humor articles that go into the Logs from time to time. Jokes, 

spoofy songs, and general sillyness are great for things like the BBS but I don't 

relish paying for it. 

A good kitbash article would be welcomed and I would think that it would 

generate sales of minis and kitbash kits by giving a step-by-step layout of how 

kitbash can be done properly. It also might instill enough confidence in a casual 

painter of minis to try a bit of kitbash. 

I really cant believe with the minis available for FC now as well as SFB (and IMHO 

for F&E as Fleet Markers on the LSM) that an article regarding minis and the 

kitbash of them wouldnt generate interest. 

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 11:26 am: Edit 

I enjoy the kitbash articles as well as the jokes and sillyness. Don't forget, there 

are still people who aren't on the internet, who may not see everything that goes 

on. It wasn't until 3 years ago that I got online. 

I love diversity. 

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 03:23 pm: Edit 

Personally, I've been disappointed that the kitbash and other mini's articles don't 

generate more interest. They and the old 'Shavings From The Workbench' articles 

in Nexus have always been among my favorites. 

The minis are a major product line. People are obviously buying them, or new 

masters and blisters wouldn't be coming out. 

Why do supporting articles in CL not get appreciated? Very strange. 

I know if I drop $20 or more on a big honking piece of pewter, I appreciate some 

words describing alternate uses for it. 

I too find the humor articles kind of non-value-added, but I can see why some

other folks would enjoy them. Of course, I feel the same about the Battleforce 

articles and F&E stuff... 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 10:20 am: Edit 

I was photographing my miniatures, and I had an idea. Maybe this could be a 

cover for a Federation Commander product? 

Background 1 

Background 2 

Both backgrounds from NASA's "Image of the Day" archive. 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 12:12 pm: Edit 

Looks REALLY good MikeP. 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 12:34 pm: Edit 

Mike, you might try finding so photo blue paint on the internet and making your 

own blue screen box (1/4" hardboard or even core board whould do) for 

photographing your minis. You would get less of a halo around your subjects. 

I've always wanted to do that. Paint the stand blue too. Going even further you 

could paint wooden blocks with stand posts at different angles to hold the minis 

just the way you want. Or make a flexible wire stand. 

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 12:38 pm: Edit 

A few visual effects, a little housekeeping, and you'd have a cover for CL. Maybe 

even an updating of the cover where the Forrest fought Klingons in Romulan 

Space. 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 01:35 pm: Edit 

Oh, I'm figuring that if SVC actually wanted to use this, he'd have Geibel re-jigger 

it with 3D models. Or if I wanted to do it as a "for real" instead of just a sketch, I 

would have a photography set-up that was more extensive than this. 

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Saturday, November 05, 2005 - 03:10 pm: Edit 

We use NASA stuff in our products already. 

Generally speaking, I'd use Ted's 3d stuff over photos of minis unless the point of 

the cover (or other color printing) was to sell minis. 

Perhaps when we ship the border boxes to the stores we could use photos of real 

minis. 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 11:26 am: Edit 

Okay, as promised, here is the walk-through of how I built an Orion Dreadnought 

mini from scratch. This mini isn’t that bad, mostly because it has lots of flat 

surfaces and is fairly symmetrical. I build them by using a silhouette template

and filling in with ribbon epoxy, or modeler’s mastic. It’s done in steps, and isn’t 

terribly hard if you have the right tools and some patience. To do it, you need 

these things: 

• Sheet brass 

• Mastic or Green Stuff 

• Variety of sanding sticks, emery boards, or miniature files. 

• Some knives and carving tools, particularly a sharp angle blade, a curved 

cutting blade, and a chisel blade. You can use X-Acto #11, 25, and 18 for 

these. 

• Super glue or something similar. I use Zap-a-Gap, myself. 

• A couple of permanent markers, fine and extra fine points. 

• Some small wire for cutting; a clothes hanger will work fine. 

• Cup of water 

• Clay modeling knives and spatulas 

• Tin snips 

• Dri-Dex spackel 

• Black and white epoxy, like JB Weld 

Most of this stuff you can get at a hardware store or a hobby store. 

So, here it goes. 

Step 1: Make a silhouette. I use thin sheet brass, and draw out the shape I want 

with a Sharpie or other permanent marker. With this ship, you just need the hull, 

wings, and left/right engines…the center one comes later. Then just cut it out, 

and you’re ready to start. Since Orion ships have those little tubes or pins sticking 

out of the back of the engines, now is a great time to add them…before you put 

on your mastic. Just cut some small wire in short pieces, and glue them to the 

engine parts with your super glue. Don’t worry about how long they are…you can 

even them up later in the process. Step 1 Pic; silhouette 

Step 2: Cut off a chunk of your mastic or Green Stuff, and kneed it until it’s a nice 

uniform color and soft enough to work with. Then just start putting it on the 

silhouette, spreading it as evenly as you can. The top of Orion ships is, thankfully, 

almost completely flat. So, just spread the stuff flat, and fairly thick…about an 

eighth of an inch or so. This gives you room to correct mistakes when you sand it 

off, and room to put the beveled nose and edges on the ship. Wet your fingers or 

spatula when you do this, or the mastic will stick and make a mess. Once you get 

it right, just square up the edges a bit with your spatula, and let it dry. Drying 

time depends on what you use. Green Stuff takes quite awhile to dry, and mastic 

dries in about an hour…one reason I prefer it. 

Step 2 Pic; filled in top with mastic Note the engine “pins” or whatever they 

are on the engines. 

Step 3: You did the top, now do the bottom. The bottom of the ship has a distinct

keel to it, so build up from the sides with a peaked middle. Just use a spatula to 

define the line, and keep it as straight as you can…fortunately, the design itself 

helps because you have that sharp, pointed nose to act as your centerpoint. No 

need to put anything on the wings, as they’re thick enough as it is. 

Step 3 Pic; shape the bottom of the hull. 

Step 4: The most laborious step…sanding the top and bottom of the hull. Sand, 

sand, sand. You’ve got to sand the shape smooth, and start defining the shape a 

bit. This includes making the wings thinner than the body, putting on the beveled 

nose, beveling the edges of the hull, and just getting the surface nice and 

smooth. You can use emery boards, files, or even a belt sander (if you have one, 

which I thankfully do}. This process is slow and is generally a lot of “rinse and 

repeat” work. So, feel free to do something else. Sit and watch the game on TV 

while you do it, and it goes a lot faster. I use a variety of emery boards for most 

of the work, and some small files for tighter spots. I also have a nifty hand-held 

reciprocating file and sander with a rechargeable battery that makes things go a 

bit faster. 

Step 4 Pic; Sanding, sanding, sanding 

Step 5: More defining the hull. This time use a file on the edges. The file is 

necessary for the edges because of the brass. An emory board won’t touch brass 

at all, so using a file will help you get the edges nice and even. 

Step 5 Pic: Filing the edges 

Step 6: Clean up the engines. Putting on all that mastic can’t help but mean you’ll 

get some in between your engine pins. Nothing too horrible, but you want to get 

it out if you can. Use a narrow file for this. Takes no time at all, and you can use a 

small knife blade if you need to for built up areas. Reminds me of flossing my 

teeth. 

Step 6 Pic; Filing between the engine pins 

Step 7: Now that you have your basic hull shape defined, you have to start 

adding that third engine. To do this, you have to mark out a silhouette piece in 

brass, cut it out, and then trace the outline on the bottom of the hull so you can 

cut it. Use a permanent marker for this, so it doesn’t rub off. Step 7 Pic; Outline 

center engine on the hull 

Step 8: Now that you have the engine space marked out, use a sharp knife to cut 

it out. Mastic and Green Stuff can be cut fairly easily, so just cut along the lines 

with your sharp angle knife to start getting it out. Step 8 Pic; cut out the 

center engine mount. 

Step 9: Finish cutting out the engine space, using a chisel point blade to get the 

bulk of the space defined, and leveled out. Test fit your brass silhouette 

occasionally to make sure you have the space even and level. Once it is, go ahead 

and glue it to the space with your super glue. Step 9 Pic; chisel out the engine

space 

Step 10: Time to whip out your mastic again. Cut off a small piece, and apply it 

to the brass silhouette you made, on the bottom. Use water and your spatula to 

smooth it out, just like before. Note that you haven’t yet added the pin…that 

comes later. For now, you want to build up the engine to about half as thick as 

the others. Step 10 Pic; shape your center warp with mastic 

Step 11: Shape the engine nice and square, using the spatula to tap down the 

sides and edges. Remember to keep it wet, or it’ll stick and make a mess. 

Step 11 Pic; square up your engine shape 

Step 12: While your engine is drying, go ahead and carve in that notch in the 

front of the hull. This is easy; just use your chisel blade and cut a line across the 

hull, and then into the front at a 90 degree angle to it. Pop out the piece you cut, 

and sand it up a bit if it needs it. That’s probably the easiest part of the whole 

process. Step 12 Pic; cut out the front notch 

Step 13: Now that your notch is done and the engine is dry, you have to finish it. 

Remember I said make it about half as thick? Well, it’s time for the other half. 

First, you have to cut some pins for the engine. Just cut them, and glue them to 

the engine. Once it dries, you can add the mastic needed to finish it up. Just put 

some on it, and sand and shape it just like you did with the others. No biggie. 

Also, you can drill a stand hole at this point. Step 13; adding your warp 

engine pins 

Step 14: Filling in the gaps. Prime the mini as it is. This will help you find any 

gaps, dings, or dents in your surface. Use some Dri-Dex wall board spackle to fill 

in these gaps. This stuff is great; it’s pink when wet, and dries white. Just use a 

finger, dab some onto your gaps or dents, and smooth it out a bit. When it dries, 

you can sand it smooth with an emery board. Prime it again, and you’re good to 

go for now. Step 14 Pic; filling in gap on engine with Dri-Dex. Note that you 

can see the hole for the stand on this pic. 

Step 15: Finishing touches. A couple of things you can do, here. One, sand off the 

back of of those engine pins to a uniform level. Also, you can add hull details, like 

the wing mounted tractor beams, the bridge levels, and the little ridge on top of 

the ship. These can be done with cut pieces of thin brass, or just added with a bit 

of mastic and shaped, just like the rest of the hull. Add your phasers, too, by 

using a toothpick to dab on little dots of black-and-white epoxy. It’ll dry nice and 

hard, and the toothpicks let you get it just where you want it. Step 15 Pics; 

finished hull, primed and detailed 

That’s about it. Here’s a pic of the mini with a Federation SCS, just to give it 

some scale. I wanted it to be about double the size of a cruiser, and comparable 

to the other DN minis out there, like the Gorn, Romulan, Klingon, and new Feds.

Orions run small, I know, but given that they’re all three-warp engine hull designs 

for the most part, if I’d made it too small it could be mistaken for a BC…not 

something I wanted. Anyone that sees this on a board will know right away, it’s a 

DN. 

Well, that’s it. Hope it was interesting. Dale McKee is going to paint the mini, and 

I told him he could keep it. I just wanted to try building it, and to see if I could 

document the process. Does this help anyone at all? 

By Gary Bear (Gunner) on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 11:37 am: Edit 

Wow! 

Can we get that post made a permanent sticky at the top of the topic so we never 

lose it? 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 12:12 pm: Edit 

Quote: 

By Mike Raper: 

Does this help anyone at all? 

So modest you are. What a great article Mike. A nice read and well illustrated. 

THANKS! 

(BTW, I think I've got that same mug... and the old Lady at the antique store said 

it was a rare original from China. Crud! ) 

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 01:09 pm: Edit 

Joe Butler: See if Mike is agreeable to having that whole post changed into a 

feature on the web site miniatures section. 

Mike: Any chance of you getting me an Orion DN master I can cast? 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 01:22 pm: Edit 

Steve, 

Sure. If Dale is agreeable, you can have this one. I'll just replace it with a 

production one. 

And yes, you're welcome to post the whole thing on the minatures website. The

process described works for a number of minis, most notably the WYN fish ships 

and Orions. 

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Sunday, November 06, 2005 - 07:32 pm: Edit 

Mike - Great job as always! 

If we can't have kit-bash articles in CL, this is the next best thing! 

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 10:18 pm: Edit 

An Orion DN mini? Great! My Pharoah's Cartel will be the greatest in the galaxy! 

BWAH! HA! HA! 

By Reid Hupach (Gwbison) on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 03:06 pm: Edit 

Hmmmm looks good. 

Too bad I dont have a digital camera, I did some kitbashing myself awhile ago. 

I created an early general war Orion DN. 

It was easy, I cut a CA right behind the wings then took a SAL and trimmed off 

the very back end, put the CA back with all three engines onto the SAL. 

An Orion with 5 10 point hypable warp engines. 

On the ssd I use a CA hull add the sal wings and a couple extra PH1.s and drone 

racks, plus a flag bridge, labs and a few others, It's a fun ship to smack down 

those pesky fed CA's with. 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 09:16 pm: Edit 

Had a spare Hydran Ranger - the old lead kind - laying around with a missing 

center engine. Well, had an idea to do an Overlord, so I found a spare engine in 

the kitbash pack (gotta love that thing), and used some mastic to build up the 

front. Fairly easy kitbash, and a nice looking mini. 

Hydran Overlord, Front 

Hydran Overlord, Rear 

As usual, it's going to be going up on Ebay, unless someone says they want it. 

Email if you have any interest. 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 07:47 am: Edit 

Very well done kitbash. 

By Scott Stohr (Scooter) on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 07:08 pm: Edit 

Very nice looking mini, Mike. 

Ought to make another master for SVC.

Scott 

By Michael Powers (Mtpowers) on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 01:14 pm: Edit 

Really cool Star Trek models. Perhaps the designer would be willing to produce 

some X2 Federation designs? 

At Starship Modeler. 

By Rich Oden (Richoden) on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 03:04 pm: Edit 

Interesting "retro-Trek" look there at SSM, Michael. Do you know if those are 

commercially available kits or scratchbuilds? I haven't seen them before... 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 03:24 pm: Edit 

It's a nicely done model but it just doesn't do me. I really dislike the shuttlebay 

arraingement. Not a fan of those engines either but they're not too bad. 

Still, you can see the skill of the builder is tops. 

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 04:32 pm: Edit 

That kit was available from the Starship Modeler store (it's a resin kit). It doesn't 

seem to be there any more. 

The original design is by Masao Okazaki (Starfleet Museum, etc.). Alfred Wong is 

a reknowned resin kit masterer and mastered that kit as well as 

assembled/painted the one in the pics. 

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 09:38 pm: Edit 

The engines kind of remind me of the Liberator. 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 09:41 pm: Edit 

Been working on a few "kitbashes for friends" lately, as I call 'em. 

One is a Lyran Early DN, for Tony Thomas. No one does Lyrans quite like Tony, so 

I'm very curious to see it painted. Anway, here's a top down view, and one from 

the bottom. Got the idea one day when looking at the R module it's in (R7, I 

think), and remembered I had a spare CA and C-warp from the kitbash pack. Not 

a hard kitbash; just have to fill in the nose with mastic, shape it a bit, and then 

attach the center engine. 

The second one is a harder kitbash, but a fun one. It's the Hydran Galleon (aka, 

Hydran Battlestar) from SSJ2. I made the SSD as a joke, posted it for some 

reason or other, and SVC picked it up for publication in SSJ. Anyway, here's a 

couple of pics, one front angle, and another from side. This one was a toughie; 

had to mark off lines on the hull, then file out gaps to fit the cross-supports for 

the pods. The pods are small craft sticks, cut down with a forty-five degree bevel 

on the edges. Then a small peice with no bevels is glued on to give it the down-

sweep on the supports. The pods are wooden, too, made from little wooden 

picket fence post-shaped craft peices. They have a forty-five degree bevel on the 

inside edges, and the outsides are rounded a bit (looked to blocky straight) 

Anyway, this one is for Dale McKee, who does really cool Hydrans. 

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 10:01 pm: Edit 

Fleeing from the combined Klingon/Lyran tyranny, the last Hydran battlestar, 

Galleon, is on a lonely quest. 

To seek out the lost colonies of Hydra, and hope to rebuild an empire. 

By Dale McKee (Brigman) on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 11:54 pm: Edit 

And find lots of methane. Did we mention methane? Here, have a bean burrito. 

Thanks Mike, that's a beauty! 

By Jack W. Hsu (Jwhsu) on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 01:12 pm: Edit 

Anybody know where the ph-3s on a refitted Fed NCL are located? 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Sunday, December 04, 2005 - 01:15 pm: Edit 

Not sure there is an official place, Jack, but I put them just behind the LS/RS 

P1's. Looked best that way, IMHO. 

By Dale McKee (Brigman) on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 04:50 pm: Edit 

I seem to recall a Captain's Log article on how to make a Tholian Pinwheel. 

Anybody know which issue? Or am I misremembering? 

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 07:42 pm: Edit 

Dale, I think it was CL17. 

Pinwheel & Fleet 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 08:27 pm: Edit 

Jeremy. Pretttttty. 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 08:34 pm: Edit 

Indeed. Love those destroyers, in particular. 

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 10:09 pm: Edit 

My favorite Tholian mini kitbash is still the TK5. Got to love a destroyer with 7 Ph- 

1s! 

By Will McCammon (Djdood) on Saturday, December 24, 2005 - 01:23 am: Edit

Very nice job on that. No seams! 

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Saturday, December 24, 2005 - 05:20 pm: Edit 

It certainly is attractive. This was made before the F5 got a size increase, wasn't 

it Jeremy? It could be said you own the only TK4. 

By Barton Pyle (Bart) on Saturday, December 24, 2005 - 05:29 pm: Edit 

I don't know if anyone knows of this product or not but I feel obligated to let 

people know about it. I just found out about it 3 weeks ago and I'm in love with 

it. 

It is called Zip Kicker, It is a super glue accelerent. It instantly solidifies super 

glue. All you do is put the super glue on one piece of the mini to be glued and 

spray the other piece with the Zip kicker. The moment they touch the glue 

hardens. Its great for making scouts, Mounting the sensors has always been a 

pain to me but now its too easy. Just don't get any on your fingers. Any FLGS 

should be able to get this. 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Saturday, December 24, 2005 - 05:44 pm: Edit 

Barton, Zip kicker is an old friend in my house. 

By Jeremy Gray (Gray) on Saturday, December 24, 2005 - 06:06 pm: Edit 

Actually, that is one of the new F5 hulls. I was never able to get my hands on one 

of the old F5 hulls during the dark days before ADB put the new one (and the F4) 

back into production. In fact, I think my first order for F5s included one spare to 

make the TK5. 

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Saturday, December 24, 2005 - 06:13 pm: Edit 

Sorry, Jeremy. Photo looked like an F4 hull. Have a great holiday. 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Monday, December 26, 2005 - 04:38 pm: Edit 

Hehe. Kit-bashed a C7V, D5V, F5V, and E4V last night. F5S, D7E, and D6E almost 

done with paint jobs and decals. I have finalized my plan for the C8V and C8S 

(which involve removing the deck-house from the C8 Rear Hull and adding the 

deck-house of a B10V/B10. 

By John A Schneder II (Keltner) on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 12:50 am: Edit 

Aaron, that exactly how I did my C8V/S:-) 

--John 

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 10:34 pm: Edit 

Anyone in the Chicago area, just found out that Trost Hobby on 63rd Street near 

Kedzie is going to go out of business. Up to 70% off, so there could be deals on 

paints and such. 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 10:24 am: Edit

Not sure where, exactly, to put these. These are minis of obviously Trek-like 

ships, which I use for X-ships...they have a very mixed TOS and TMP look, so 

they work good for me. 

Fed DNX USS Goliath and CX USS Agamemmnon, front 

Fed DNX USS Goliath and CX USS Agamemmnon, aft 

Fed CX and Klingon X-cruiser 

I suppose you could use these for X2 ships, or really anything you like. Neat stuff, 

even if they do require more than the normal amount of prep work. 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 01:47 pm: Edit 

MikeR: While I generally dislike stuff that looks like Next Generation; those minis 

above come close to changing my mind. Very well done indeed. 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 05:00 pm: Edit 

Finished my Federation DD Squadron!! 

Here they are. 

http://awwwdrat.com/Federation_DDL.html 

http://awwwdrat.com/Federation_DD.html 

http://awwwdrat.com/Federation_SC.html 

Or go here: 

http://awwwdrat.com/Federation_Miniatures.html 

By Lawrence Bergen (Lar) on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 05:02 pm: Edit 

Aaron, why even mess with the metal dish? You can still get the DD/CA dish in 

plastic, and the kitbash packs give you enough sensor arrays to do a scout. 

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 05:57 pm: Edit 

I was wondering why you covered up the vents on the nacelles, myself, to have 

the cylinder completely round. 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 06:17 pm: Edit 

Lawrence: GSC saucer comes with the dishes already attached right out of the 

casting and I wanted to experiment with the idea. 

Bennett: I wanted to have the ship ID on both sides. This brings up a great idea: 

I could have put the vents on the bottom, that would have been neat.

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 06:47 pm: Edit 

Here's a few pics with all of them together. 

http://awwwdrat.com/DDonthemove 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 06:49 pm: Edit 

Anyone remember where the SSD for the Fed LTT is? I finished building a mini, 

but I need to see the details for hardpoints. 

By Scott Tenhoff (Scottt) on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 07:21 pm: Edit 

MikeR, 

The answer is R2 

By Greg Ernest (Grege) on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 08:51 pm: Edit 

Aaron: On the original Fed DD, the vents were on the bottom of the nacelle. 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 09:19 pm: Edit 

Scott, 

Thanks! Going to have to make a few small fixes; the mini I used for the body 

has two FH phasers, which will have to go, and I'll need to add the RS/LS ones. 

It's not exactly like the SSD, but looks pretty darn neat. 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 10:20 am: Edit 

Okay, here's some pics of the LTT. Just built it; haven't gotten around to painting 

yet. 

http://www.geocities.com/raperm2002/F-LTT_side.JPG 

http://www.geocities.com/raperm2002/F-LTT_bottom.JPG 

By Loren Knight (Loren) on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 11:23 am: Edit 

Mike, the LTT carries a pod in a single row. HOWEVER, you've come up with a 

wonderful design for my HLT design that might well help it see reality! I like, I 

like! 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 11:51 am: Edit 

Oh, I know. I just had this mini and thought it would look cool if done this way. 

More fun than slapping a pod on an NCL, IMHO. 

By Dale McKee (Brigman) on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 12:30 pm: Edit 

Mike, that's a real beaut! Is the "base hull" one of the same ones you used for 

your "x-ships"? 

By Mike Raper (Raperm) on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 03:01 pm: Edit

Well, the body is one of the irregular minis; the engines are from a DW, the pods 

are cut-down tug pods. I think it'll be neat when it's done. This is just one of 

those "had to do it" minis; not something I plan on keeping, since FC doesn't 

have the LTT in it. 

By Aaron M. Staley (Aaron_Staley) on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 06:01 pm: Edit 

GregE: Doh!! 

By Bennett Eugene Snyder (Planner) on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 09:17 pm: Edit 

Homer Simpson in charge of Engineering. Now there's a frightening thought.

Miniatures Kit Bashing Archive for 2005 - Star Fleet Universe

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