DRAFT The Payne, Cave, and Johnson Families Part 1 ... - KyKinfolk

DRAFT 

The Payne, Cave, and Johnson Families 

Part 1 

By Donn B. Parker 

December 23, 2007 

This report is in two parts, and an appendix consisting of family trees. This first 

part describes mostly the Johnson family. I obtained the information in this twopart 

draft report from brief research in the Conrad Rockefeller Library in 

Williamsburg, Virginia and from previously gathered information from family 

members, interviews in 1998, the Caves Cove Web site, news clippings, and two 

books that I identify in the text. This history starts with my great grandmother 

Emeline Payne Blanchard, Newton Payne and Susan (Spencer) Payne, the parents of 

Emeline, and then moves back to describing their ancestors and in particular the 

Johnson family. See my Family Tree Maker (computer software by Broderbund) 

family tree for an overview of the entire family of more than 3000 of my 

ancestors, descendants, and other family members. I have also written other 

reports covering the Blanchard, Gregory, Schroeder, and Parker families. My 

Blanchard reports describe Emeline in greater detail than presented here. 

The reference that I used the most is the book, The Paynes of Virginia by Col. 

Boothe Payne that he wrote in 1937 after 15 years of careful and conservative 

investigation. Boothe’s history starts with "the immigrant" John Payne born circa 

1615 in Kent England who moved to Virginia and was married to Margaret Robinson. 

In the Introduction, Boothe identifies eight relatively independent groups of 

Paynes in Virginia and concludes that he and my family are descendants of the group 

started by John Payne that settled in Lancaster (then known as Rappahannock) and 

Westmorland Counties. His history covers only this group. He failed to prove the 

identity of John Paynes's ancestors in England and points out much of the false 

information about the various groups and how difficult it is to sort out the 

genealogy of the many Payne families in England and America. Patrick Payne, a 

contemporary family researcher has discovered much more about the English 

Paynes. Note that there were two John Paynes in my family. The earliest was the 

"the immigrant" born in 1615 described here and General John Payne, a later 

descendent born in 1764 and described in more detail in Part 2 of this report. 

Emeline's father (my great great grandfather) was Newton Payne, born on January 

4, 1800 in Scott County, Kentucky and died on March 16, 1850 in Warsaw, Gallatin 

County, Kentucky. He was married to Susan Spencer, his second wife, on October 5, 

1836. Newton established a plantation along the Ohio River, and they had many 

slaves. They had five children including Emeline, The others named Sallie M., Mary 

©1999 Donn B. Parker 1 Paynes, Caves, and Johnsons Part 1

E., Newton, jr. Newton died when he was 51 years old, and Susan operated the 

plantation and raised the children with the help of her mother, sister and brother 

who all lived with or near one another. This civil War record for Newton Payne is 

from www.itd.nps.gov/cwss: 

Regiment Name 5 Kentucky Cavalry 

Side Confederate 

and James. Emeline's father's 

Company D 

parents (my great great great 

Soldier's Rank_In Private 

grandparents) were General 

Soldier's Rank_Out Private 

John Payne, Born April 18, 1764 

Alternate Name 

in Virginia and Betsy Johnson, 

Notes 

born April 16, 1772 in Orange 

Film Number M377 roll 10 

County, Virginia and died in 

Scott County in November 1845. 

They were married on June 28, 1787 in Georgetown, Scott County, Kentucky. 

Betsy's parents, (my great great great great grandparents) were Robert Johnson, 

born July 17, 1745 in Orange County and died in Warsaw, Gallatin County on 

October 15, 1815 at the age of 71, and Jemima Suggett, born on June 29, 1753 also 

in Orange County. They were married there in 1770 and are buried in the Johnson 

family cemetery near Great Crossings in Scott County. In 1805 Col. Robert 

Johnson founded Warsaw and surveyed and built a road from his landing on the 

Ohio River to his former home in Scott County, Kentucky. The landing soon became 

a busy shipping port. 

Quoting from the Johnson Genealogy and Payne Genealogy, 1964, Donated by Carrie 

Jenkins Alexander, Malta Bend, Missouri for Patsy Gregg Chapter, DAR, Napton, 

Missouri: 

Col. Robert Johnson (Robin) was one of the pioneers of Kentucky, an able, 

resolute and commanding character, greatly trusted in many ways during a 

long life. He represented Fayette County, Fifth District of Kentucky, in the 

Virginia legislature of 1782. He took part in the district convention in 1785; 

was a member of the constitutional convention in 1792, and again of that 

which assembled in 1799. He repeatedly represented Woodford and Fayette 

Counties in the state legislature. Tradition pictures him as man of clear 

judgement and even balanced mind, consulted upon all important matters, 

justifying the confidence in him. 

The family members of Robert Johnson were inmates [residents] of Bryan's 

Station when Girty [Simon Girty was an Indian chief] attacked that place in 

1782. His wife was one of the matrons who made the perilous venture of 

passing the Indian ambuscade and bringing a supply of water from the spring 


outside of the stockade. His infant son Richard Mentor Johnson, who 

became Vice-President of the United States, but he was even more famous 

as the slayer of Tecumseh, was rocked in his rude cradle during the siege. 

His nurse a sister nine years old, seized the moments when her little charge 

fell asleep to do her part in the gallant defense, and with her brother 

James, aged seven years, went from place to place with buckets and gourds 

of water extinguishing the flames lighted by the arrows of the Indians. 

Robert Johnson's parents (my great great great great great grandparents) were 

William Johnson, born in 1714 in Madison County, Virginia and Elizabeth Cave, born 

in 1720 also in Madison County. They were married in 1742. Elizabeth Cave's 

parents were Benjamin Cave, born in 1703 in Virginia and Hannah Bledsoe, born in 

1691. Benjamin and Hannah were married in 1720. Benjamin died in 1762 in Orange 

County Virginia. Jemima Suggett's parents were James Suggett, born in 1702 and 

Jemima Spence, born in 1711. Her parents were Patrick Jr. Spence, born in 1669 

and Jemima Pope, Born in 1676. In the material that I have, nothing is known about 

Newton's wife, Susan Spencer and her family. New research should start with her. 

Newton Payne was one of 13 children. His mother, Betsy Johnson, was a member of 

a famous family documented in a book, Genealogy of the Johnson Family. Tom Loftin 

Johnson, mayor of Cleveland, Ohio had this book written [I have a copy of it 

received from Mrs. Allayne M. Blanchard that was presented to Thomas L. Johnson 

Blanchard, my great uncle in 1893]. Quoting from that book, the unknown author 

included the following quote about Col. Robert Johnson: "He was a candidate of his 

party for governor, and a reformer all the way through." 

Johnson First American Generation 

William Johnson, born in Madison County, Colony of Virginia in 1714; married 

Elizabeth Cave in 1742; died in 1765. His children were: 

1 Robert 4 Benjamin 7 Cave 

2 Nancy 5 Mildred 8 Sally 

3 Hannah 6 Elizabeth 9 Valentine 

Remarks 

Col. William Johnson, the progenitor of this genealogy was born in the Colony 

of Virginia in Madison county, where he married Elizabeth Cave. This county 

was divided after Virginia became a state, and where he resided 

subsequently became a part of Orange county, where he died and was buried 

in 1765. 


Elizabeth Cave was the fifth child of Benjamin Cave and Hannah Bledsoe. 

She was born in Madison county, in 1720, and died and was buried in Orange 

county in 1785. She was of a distinguished and influential family who were 

among the first settlers from England in the Colony of Virginia. Her father 

was a member of the Episcopal church, vestryman of St. Mark's Parish from 

1731 to 1740, when St. Thomas' Parish was cut off from St. Mark, and then 

transferred his membership to the Parish of St. Thomas. He was a 

representative of Orange county, VA. In the house of Burgesses in 1756 

[actually in 6 terms from 1752 to 1768] , and acquired under the old English 

Patents a large landed estate, and accumulated considerable personal 

property which, after his death in 1762, was satisfactorily divided by his will 

between his wife and their eight children. [A patent is a letter from a 

sovereign, in this case from the King of England, giving public land to a 

private party.] 

We are indebted to Mrs. Hanna Bell of Baltimore, Md. For the above facts 

which were procured from the family records of Benjamin Cave of whom she 

is a descendant. 

Here is additional information about Benjamin Cave copied from the Cave's Cove 

Internet Web Site. 

St. Mark's Parish Book 

Book: 

Rev. Phillip Slaughter D.D. "History of St. Mark's Parish, Culpeper Co., VA" 

Clearfield Co., Baltimore, MD 1994. Cave Family Genealogy pg. 122-124. 

Benjamin Cave married Hannah (d. of William Bledsoe, sister of Abraham); Children: 

David, John, William, Richard (moved to KY), Ann (moved to NC), Sally married a 

Strother, Hannah married Capt. Mallory. Hannah and Capt. 

Mallory Children: Elizabeth married Oliver Welch; a daughter married Oliver Terrill 

(father of Dr. Uriel Terrill). Benjamin Represented Orange in the House of 

Burgesses in 1756. 

"Among the members of the first vestry of St. Mark's in 1731 was Benjamin Cave 

(St. Mark's Parish, Culpeper Co., VA).Benjamin Cave was vestryman of St. Mark's 

until 1740, when St. Thomas Parish was cut off from St. Mark's; and he and David 

Cave, who was Lay Reader at the old Orange Church near Ruckersville, became 

members of the new parish (St. Thomas) in Orange Co., where they lived. The 

records of St. Thomas being lost, their relation to it cannot be traced. It is known, 


however, that the family adhered to the Church of their fathers; and one of the 

old ministers, about 1740, lived with Benjamin Cave, Sr., whose residence was within 

reach of the first chapel (near Brooking's) and the old Orange Church. Rev. 

Slaughter has original poems in MS. [manuscript?], written by a sister of Benjamin 

Cave, Sr., endorsed 1767. The first Benjamin Cave lived for a time at what is now 

known as Rhodes in Orange [county], and then moved to land on the Upper Rapidan 

near Cave's Ford which derives its name from him". Rev. Phillip Slaughter D.D. 

"History of St. Mark's Parish, Culpeper Co., VA" 

Clearfield Co., Baltimore, MD 1994. Cave Family Genealogy pg. 122-124. 

The Complete Book of Emigrants 1700-1750 

From theThe Complete Book of Emigrants 1700-1750 by Peter Wilson Coldham; 

Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc.; Baltimore, Maryland 1992: Benjamin Cave was a 

Lieutenant to Captain John Scott in the Virginia Colonial Militia, he took the oath 

Feb. 2, 1730. 

"Virginia Colonial Militia" by William Armstong Crozier. Genealogical Publishing Co., 

Baltimore, MD; 1982. Pg. 122. 

In a biography of Willliam CAVE, the author John TAYLOR (Benjamin's grandsonin-law) 

refers to Benjamin as Captain Benjamin, and says that Benjamin was 

frequently elected to the General Assembly of Virginia. 

John Taylor as a biographer of Pioneer Baptist Preachers in The Filson Club History 

Quarterly; Filson Club Publications Louisville, KY. Vol. 37; 1963; pg. 344. From Book 

"Ten Churches" by John Taylor. 

The following information about Hannah Bledsoe was obtained from Virkus, 

Frederick A. The Abridged Compendium of American Genealogy. First Families of 

America. Vol. VI 1928; pg. 264. 1987A.N. Maiquis & Co, Chicago. 

Birth Date: 1698 

Residence Place: Virginia 

Death Date: 1770 

Spouse Father: William Bledsoe (1676-1770) 

Spouse Mother: Elizabeth (1680-) 

The Will of Benjamin Cave 

From Orange County, Virginia Will Book 2, 1744, 1778; Page 330 

In the name of God, Amen, the 26th day of June in the year of our 

Lord God one thousand, seven hundred and sixty-two (1762). I, 


Benjamin CAVE of the county of Orange being of good and perfect 

memory thanks be to God do make and ordain this to be my last will 

and Testament in manner and Form following Make to say first. I 

bequeath my soul and spirit into the hands of the Almighty God my 

Heavenly Father by whom of his---and only grace I trust to be saved 

of received into Eternal rest through the death of our Savior and 

Redeemer Jesus Christ in Whose precious Blood I set the whole and 

only hope of my Salvation. I commit to the Earth to be buried and as 

touching the distribution of my mortal goods I dispose of them as 

followeth-- 

First I lend all my houses and plantation whereon I now live to my Dear 

and Loving wife HANNAH CAVE during her life and after her dec'd to 

my son WILLIAM CAVE and his heirs. Item: I give unto my son JOHN 

CAVE in Culpeper County the hundred and twenty-five acres of Land in 

this county to be laid from the River to the Back of an Equal Wealth 

to him and his heirs. Item: I give and bequeath unto my son 

BENJAMIN CAVE, Jr. Two hundred acres of Land in the said Tract in 

Culpeper County (Virginia) to be laid of at the upper end to him and his 

heirs. Item: I also give unto my son David CAVE the remaining part of 

my Land in said County one hundred and seventy-eight acres of land 

more or less to him and his heirs. Item: I give unto my son WILLIAM 

CAVE my right of lease in this county during this Term. I lend unto my 

wife HANNAH CAVE five negros Viz; JACK, MALL, CATE, DINAH and 

PRESTON During her life and after her decease to be equally divided 

among my four sons, BENJAMIN, WILLIAM, DAVID, RICHARD CAVE, 

my four daughters, ELIZABETH JOHNSON, ANN CAVENDER 

(CAVENAUGH OR KAVENAUGH) , SARAH and HANNAH CAVE and 

their heirs and assigns. Item: I give unto my son BENJAMIN CAVE 

one negro fellow named PARKER to him and his heirs forever. I give 

unto my son WILLIAM two negros named TOBY and SAM to him and 

his heirs forever. I give unto my son DAVID CAVE two negros named 

TOM and MILLEY a wench to him and his heirs and assigns forever. I 

give unto my son RICHARD CAVE three negros named PHILLIS a 

wench on boy named HARRY and a boy named BOB to him his heirs and 

assigns. I give unto my daughter SARAH CAVE three negros a wench 

named LUCY, a boy named SAM and a girl named JENNY to her and 

her heirs and assigns. I give unto my daughter HANNAH CAVE four 

negros named JUDA, POMPY, JAMES and GEORGE to her and her 

heirs and assigns. I give unto my daughter ELIABETH JOHNSON two 

negros a wench named JUDE and a boy named JACK to her and her 

heirs and assigns and lastly I give unto my daughter ANN CAVENDER 


one negro wench named VIOLET to her and her assigns and as to my 

other estate I give unto my son WILLIAM CAVE one feather bed and 

furniture and I give unto my son DAVID CAVE one feather bed and 

furniture and I give to my daughter SARAH CAVE one bed and 

furniture. I give also unto my son DAVID CAVE one young horse named 

Prince. Item: I give unto my son JOHN CAVE one large square table. 

Item: I give unto my daughter HANNAH CAVE one feather bed and 

furniture. I give also unto my son RICHARD CAVE one feather bed and 

furniture and also the other part of my estate I lend to my loving wife 

to dispose of as she shall think proper and necessary during her 

widowhood. 

I do hereby appoint my loving wife HANNAH CAVE and my two sons 

JOHN and BENJAMIN Executors and Exec (?trix) of this my last will 

and Testament. In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand and 

seal the day and year above mentioned. Benjamin Cave {seal} Test: 

John Crittenden Webb, John Bledsoe, Anthony Galson 

At a court held for Orange County (Virginia) on Thursday the 26 day 

August 1763 this last Will and Testament for Benjamin Cave dec'd was 

presented into the court by Benjamin Cave, Jr. one of the Executors 

therein and proved by the oaths of John Crittenden Webb and John 

Bledsoe two of the witnesses thereto and ordered to be recorded. 

Test: Geo. Taylor G.A.G. 

…and the court held for this County and Thursday the 25 day of 

November 1762 on the motion of Benjamin Cave on of the Executors 

therein named who made oath according to law Certificate is granted 

for obtaining Letters of Probate thereof in due form giving security 

on which he and Eras Taylor, Tho's Jameson and Tho's Barbour 

acknowledged. Test: Geo. Taylor C.O.G. 

This will of Benjamin Cave was written 26 June 1762 in Orange County, Virginia and 

proved 26 August 1762 Orange County, Virginia. It names Wife Hannah Cave nee 

Hannah Bledsoe #179 the daughter of William. 

Sons Daughters Slaves 

William Elizabeth Johnson Jack Harry Violet 

John Ann Cavender Mall Bob Phillis Jack 

Benjamin Jr. Sarah Cate Lucy Milley 

Jude 


David Hannah Dinah Sam Tom 

George 

Richard Preston Jenny 

Sam James 

Parker Juda Toby Pompy 

From The Travelling Church by George W. Ranck, Press of Baptist Book Concern, 

1891 

The following list of church members appears on page 31 of Professor George W. 

Ranck's book known as The Travelling Church: An Account of the Baptist Exodus 

from Virginia to Kentucky in 1781 under the Leadership of Rev. Lewis Craig and 

Capt. William Ellis. 

ALLEN ELLY PRICE 

ASHER EASTIN ROBINSON & WIFE 

BLEDSOE GARRARD RAMSEY 

BOWMAN GOODLOE RUCKER 

BARROW HUNT SHACKELFORD 

BURBRIDGE HART SHIPP 

BUCKNER HICKMAN SHOTWELL 

CRAIG, Toliver & wife HICKERSON SINGLETON 

CRAIG, Lewis MARTIN SMITH 

CRAIG, Joseph MOORE SANDERS 

CAVE, William MORTON STUART 

CURD MARSHALL TODD 

CARR MORRIS THOMPSON 

CREATH MITCHUM WALTON 

DUDLEY NOEL WOOLFOLK 

DUPUY PAYNE WATKINS 

DARNABY PARRISH, Timothy WALLER 

DEDMAN PARRISH, James WARE 

ELLIS, William & PITMAN WOOLRIDGE 

ELLIS' family of 5 PRESTON YOUNG 

Other members 

Excerpts from the book in pages 4 and 5: 

It was plain that something very unusual was transpiring at an 

isolated building in Spottsylvania County, Virginia, one Sunday morning 

in September, 1781. The house, which stood on the old Catharpin 

road leading to the then little village of Fredericksburg, and which 

was located aboutfour miles south of the spot since known as 

Parker's Station, was surrounded by such a gathering of men, women 


and children, slaves, pack horses, cattle, dogs, and loaded wagons as 

had never been seen in the county before, but there was no unseemly 

disorder and but little noise except such as came from fretful infants 

and from the bells of the grazing stock. The crowd was too great for 

the house and most of the people were assembled under the trees in 

front of it where the women had been provided with seats. It could 

not be a camp-meeting - there were no signs of either cheerfulness 

or enjoyment. It was not a funeral though all were sad and many were 

deeply dejected. It was "farewell Sunday" at Upper Spottsylvania 

(Baptist) Church - the next morning the congregation was to start in 

a body for Kentucky. All kinds of property were disposed of, all kinds 

of arrangements were made and the Farewell Sunday found them 

heavy-hearted but ready for the start with packing completed, homes 

abandoned and surrounded by friends who had gathered from far and 

near to bid them a last and long good bye. Of those not a few were 

Baptist preachers of Spottsylvania and the neighboring counties. 

Among them, according to tradition, was Elijah Craig, the bold 

exhorter of the Blue Run church who had lunched in jail more than 

once on rye bread and water for conscience sake; Ambrose Dudley 

who had often labored with him; William E. Waller, pastor of County 

Line and William Ellis the aged shepherd of the Nottaway flock who 

had realized what "buffetings" meant long before the Revolution 

broughtits blessed heritage of religious freedom. They had many 

relatives among the departing throng and all of them but the 

venerable Ellis soon followed them to the land of Boone. John Waller, 

pastor of Lower Spottsylvania Church, and the most picturesque of 

the early Baptist ministers of Virginia was also there. He was the 

"Devil's Adjutant" no longer. The former persecutor, whole-souled in 

everything he undertook, had for years been one of the staunchest 

defenders of the people he had once so energetically reviled. One 

familiar figure was missing from the crowd. John Clay, the struggling 

preacher for the struggling church in the flat and desolate "slashes" 

of Hanover was not there. Only a few weeks before the father of 

the eloquent "Harry of the West" had ceased from his labors 

forever. Preachers were not lacking in the expedition itself. Joseph 

Bledsoe of the Wilderness Church and father of the afterwards 

noted Senator Jesse Bledsoe of Kentucky; Joseph Craig, "the man 

who laid down in the road"; William Cave, a connection of the Craigs, 

and Simeon Walton, pastor for a season of Nottaway Church, were 

four of probably a dozen preachers who accompanied it. Many more 

came after them, so many in fact that an early chronicler of the 

church in Virginia calls Kentucky "the vortex of Baptist preachers." 


Now returning to the Johnson Genealogy book and following the sequence of my 

ancestors: 

Generation II. Child I 

Robert Johnson was born in Orange county, Va. On the 17 th of July, 1745; 

married Jemina Suggett in Orange county, Va. 1770; died at Warsaw in 

Gallatin County, Ky. On the 15 th of October, 1815, and was buried in the 

family cemetery near the Great Crossings in Scott county, Ky. His wife, was 

born in Orange county, Va. On the 29the of June, 1753; died at Great 

Crossings in Scott county, Ky. And was buried near there in the family 

cemetery on the 23 rd of February, 1814. His Children were: 

1 Betsy 5 Richard M[entor] 9 Joel 

2 James 6 Benjamin 10 George 

3 William 7 Robert 11 Henry 

4 Sally 8 John T. 

Col. Robert Johnson (familiarly known as "Robin") was one of the pioneers of 

Kentucky, an able, resolute and commanding character, greatly trusted in 

many ways throughout a long life. He represented Fayette County, of the 

district of Kentucky in the Virginia Legislature of 1782. He took part in the 

district convention of 1785; was a member of the constitutional convention 

of 1792, and again of that which assembled in 1799. He repeatedly 

represented Fayette and Woodford counties in the state legislature. 

Tradition pictures him as a man of very clear judgment and evenly balanced 

mind, consulted upon all important matters, justifying the confidence 

reposed in him. 

The family of Robert Johnson were inmates of Bryant's Station [sometimes 

called Bryan's] when Girty [Simon Girty was an Indian chief] attacked that 

place in 1782. His wife was one of the matrons who made the perilous 

venture of passing the Indian ambuscade to bring a supply of water from the 

spring outside the stockade. His infant son, Richard M. Johnson, afterwards 

a Vice-President of the United States, but even more famous as the slayer 

of Tecumseh, was rocked in his rude cradle during the siege. The nurse, a 

sister nine years old, seized the moments when her little charge fell asleep 

to do her part in the gallant defense. With her brother James, aged seven 

years, she went from place to place with buckets of water and gourds, 

extinguishing the flames lighted by the fire-arrows of the Indians. 


[Tecumseh was a Shawnee Indian who was born in Ohio lived from roughly 1768 to 

1813. He attempted to create a pan-Indian alliance to revitalize tribal culture and 

preserve tribal lands. He participated in the campaigns of the Shawnee and their 

neighbors against the Kentuckians who were beginning to cross the Ohio River. He 

was called "Chief of the Beautiful River." His white opponent was Gov. William 

Henry Harrison, of the Indian Territory. 

The Shawnees had fought on the British side during the American Revolution, and n 

long hoped for British aid against the Americans. The British, however, refused him 

official encouragement until the outbreak of war between the United States and 

Britain in June 1812. At that point, Tecumseh and his followers allied with the 

British forces at Ft. Malden. They fought several successful campaigns along the 

Canadian border, but U.S. Capt. Oliver Hazard Perry's naval victory at Put-In-Bay 

cut their supply lines and forced them to withdraw. During the retreat across 

Ontario from Ft. Malden, Tecumseh persuaded the British commander to make a 

stand at the Thames River. In the 1813 Battle of the Thames, Tecumseh was killed. 

With him perished the project of a pan-Indian alliance. From Tecumseh and His 

Times by John M. Oskison (1938) in the Encyclopedia Britannica.] 

The following graphic sketch of Robert Johnson's life as a pioneer in the 

"dark and bloody ground" of Kentucky's early days, was written by his 

brother, Cave Johnson, in his ninetieth year: 

On the 1 st day of April, 1779, my brother Robert, myself and one other 

man (William Tomlinson), set out from Orange county, Va. for a visit to 

Kentucky. There was them about two hundred miles of the road from 

the back settlements on Holston waters to Kentucky that was 

considered to be quite dangerous, traveling with so small a company as 

ours (only three). But we pushed on, and at the Cumberland River we 

overtook a company of several families of Bryants, from North 

Carolina, on their way to Kentucky, to settle the place since called 

Bryant's Station, on North Elkhorn. We joined with the company and 

arrived first at Bookesborough, where we obtained some little Indian 

corn, and then went on to North Elkhorn, where we arrived about the 

last of April. We, that is, Tomlinson and myself, assisted the Bryants I 

putting up some cabins. Robert Johnson left us and went to Lexington, 

which had just been settled from about Allegheny and Monongahela. 

After viewing and exploring the country some weeks, he returned home 

to Virginia. Tomlinson and myself planted about four acres of corm, and 

after we had finished working it, in July we left for home. 


And here I will mention an incident that happened on the way in the 

wilderness. A number, now, of Bryants and others, were along. Our 

company was considerable as to numbers, and when in the wilderness, 

not far from Cumberland River, we stopped to eat our dinners and noon 

it, as it was called n and to let our horses graze. While we were thus 

stopped, a number of men took their guns and turned out to hunt, 

wishing to kill deer, and while they were out from camp, one man, 

Aquilla White, shot and killed Willian Beamlett, mistaking him for an 

Indian. Beamlett was a preacher, and one of our company, and there we 

buried him. 

Tomlinson and myself reached home in safety. 

My brother Robert, having got somewhat acquainted while in Kentucky, 

with some of the military surveys that had been made by John Floyd, 

purchased two tracts, and in the fall of that year started with his 

family to Kentucky, to go by water. He got to Redstone or Brownsville, 

when the river got too low, and continued so until it froze up. He 

continued there until spring of the year, when he took water and landed 

at the Falls of Ohio, and moved from there to Beargrass, upon John 

Floyd's land, where he raised a crop of corn. Sometime during that 

summer he went out with the expedition under Gen. Clark into the 

Miami country against the Indians. 

And here I will mention another incident, which occurred while he 

resided at Beargrass. The Indians had waylaid the trace [a blazed or 

marked foot trail] that led from the settlement on Beargrass to the 

Falls, and had killed several people there. Having understood from the 

spies that were sent out to examine the neighborhood that they had 

discovered Indian signs, and that they apprehended they might be 

waylaying that trace, the inhabitants of the Falls and those of the 

Beargrass settlement raised a company and undertook to examine said 

trace. They divided into three companies. One marched along the trace, 

the other two marched though the weeds on each side. They found the 

Indians, as they expected, lying in ambush near the road, and, coming 

on their backs, fired on them, killing one dead on the spot and wounding 

one other that got off. The Indians, discovering the men on the trace, 

fired at them the same time they were fired on, and wounded one of 

the white men badly. My brother Robert was one of the men who fired 

at the Indians. 


While Robert Johnson, with his family, continued at Beargrass, Richard 

M. [Mentor] Johnson was born. 

I will now go back a little. In the year 1779, some time after our arrival 

at Bryant's Station, Col. Bowman, who lived on the south side of 

Kentucky River, raised what force he could. They crossed the Ohio at 

the mouth of the Licking, and went against the Indians at a town where 

they lived on the little Miami, at old Chillicothe. They got to the town in 

the morning before daylight undiscovered and attacked them. The 

Indians stuck to their houses and fought, and killed several of the best 

most daring soldiers. The whites retreated, and the Indians followed 

them nearly to the Ohio. 

Robert Johnson moved from Beargrass to Bryant's Station, I think, in 

the fall of 1780. There he built some cabins, making part of the fort. I, 

then a young man, was part of his family. Buffalo being very plenty in 

the woods, there was not much difficulty in obtaining meat for the 

families, except that of risking our scalps, from which danger we 

considered ourselves never absented when out. 

The next years, 1781 and 1782, were disastrous ones for Kentucky. 

Captain Bird, a British officer from Detroit, with a large force of 

Indians, came over the Ohio, brought one field piece (I suppose a sixpounder), 

and captured Riddle's and Martin's stations on Licking. The 

Indians also broke up Grant's station on the waters of Licking, and 

killed a number of persons; also Estil's defeat, on the waters of 

Licking. Captain Estil was considered one of our best defenders against 

the Indians. He raised and headed some twelve or fourteen men, said 

to be good soldiers, to fight Indians, and followed about the same 

number of Indians that he had men, overtook them and had severe 

battle. Captain Estil himself was killed, and nearly one-half on each side 

was killed, and they made a draw battle of it. 

Another incident I will her mention. Hunting in the woods for our meat 

being a dangerous business, twelve of us at Bryant's turned out for 

that purpose, all in company. When we got into the hunting woods, near 

where Georgetown now stands, we separated into three companies. 

William Bryant, the head and principal man of the families and station 

at that time, headed one of the companies. Another of the Bryants 

headed the one that I belonged to. The agreement when we parted was 

that we were to meet at night at the mouth of Cane Run on North 

Elkhorn. Soon After we parted, the Indians, some twelve or fourteen in 


number, got on the trail of the company that I belonged to, and it was 

easy to track a single horse in those woods at the that time. Our 

leader, Mr. Bryant, had alighted from his horse to shoot a deer. The 

other three of us were sitting on our horses when the Indians came in 

sight. I was the first to discover them. We made out to get off before 

they fired on us, and having the heels of them, we made use of it, and 

not being strong enough to fight them, we went on to the station. On 

the next day twelve or fifteen men of the station turned out and went 

to hunt for William Bryant and his company, who camped at the mouth 

of Cane Run the night before and were out the next day not far from 

Georgetown. He discovered a horse that was hobbled and with a bell on 

him, on the other side of the creek from where we were. He directed 

the other three of his company to remain where they were, while he 

should cross the creek and see what it meant. He got over, and when on 

his horse, the Indians, who were in ambush, fired on him and wounded 

him with three balls. His horse, however, carried him back. The 

company from the station, who were on the hunt for him were in 

hearing of the guns when they fired on him. They rushed on to the 

place and found the Indians, and a battle ensued. They killed one Indian 

and got his scalp, and wounded several more. Five of the whites were 

wounded; one of them (David Jones) was shot through near the middle 

of the breast, but none of them died except Mr. Bryant, whom the 

company on their return found in the woods badly wounded. He was 

taken on to the station, where he died, much lamented. 

Again, during my residence at the station in 1781, we were in the want 

of salt. A company of us, about ten or twelve, got on our horses, with 

our rifles on our shoulders, and started for Bullitt's Lick, near the Falls 

of the Ohio, where salt was then made. We passed through Lexington 

and along a small trace to the Kentucky River at Leedstown, as it was 

then called, situate about half a mile below Frankfort. The weather was 

warm, and we rode down the bank into the water; and while our horses 

were drinking, all near the bank of the river, a party of Indians that 

followed us came on the bank, fired on us and killed one horse, that fell 

dead in the river. His rider pushed on across the river, and the Indians 

crossed after him and took him prisoner. They wounded five men of our 

company, all of whom recovered. We gave up our trip and returned to 

the station. 

And again, while a man by the name of Daniel Wilcoxen was plowing his 

corn, in full view of the station, about one hundred and fifty or two 

hundred yards distant, and a man with his son watching as sentry for 


Indians. A small party of them crept near enough and shot him and 

killed him, and one of them, with tomahawk in hand, ran Wilcoxen 

toward the fort, and was near getting him, when Wilcoxen jumped a 

fence, which saved him. 

And again, a youth by the name of Hickey Lea was out of the fort on a 

horse, one morning in the edge of the woods. He was distant some two 

hundred or three hundred yards, for the purpose of grazing the horse, 

and while he was sitting on the horse, some Indians got near enough and 

shot the horse, which ran a short distance and fell. The Indians then 

killed the youth and scalped him. 

In 1785, my brother, Robert Johnson, was elected a member of the 

General Assembly of Virginia, and went to Richmond. I was then also in 

Virginia. We did not return to Kentucky until after the defeat of the 

Blue Licks, therefore can say nothing, of my own knowledge as to that 

and the siege of Simon Girty and the Indians at Bryant's Station. 

About the same time, or shortly after, General Clark carried an 

expedition against the Indians in the Miami country. My brother Robert 

commanded a company from Bryant's Station. Jeremiah Craig and 

myself were his subalterns. Every man fit for the campaign, except 

enough to take care of the fort, was called out. Colonel Benjamin Logan 

was second in command. One wing of the army marched from the Falls, 

the other from Lexington and Bryant's. They met in general rendezvous 

on the ground now occupied by Cincinnati, where General Clark took 

command. We marched through Old Chillicothe, on the Little Miami, on 

to the Indian town of Piqua, on the Big Miami. We had one piece of 

cannon. The Indians fled and gave us no trouble. They did come one 

dark night and fire on us, which caused us to extinguish our fires, but 

they kept at such a distance as to hurt none of us. Some scouting 

parties from our camps went out and killed a few Indians and took some 

prisoners, and destroyed their cornfields and villages. We then 

returned nearly in the same track we had gone out. 

Very shortly after our return home, Col. Thomas Marshall, Surveyor of 

Fayette, who had been waiting for the return of our army, opened his 

office in Lexington for the entering and surveying of lands. A mighty 

movement then commenced among the people both for entering and 

surveying. I got the appointment of Deputy Surveyor, and commenced 

surveying, and was employed considerably in that business for several 

years. The next year, 1783, the people of the stations began to move 


and settle out the lands. My brother Robert settled on Big or Great 

Crossing on North Elkhorn. Captain John Craig settled on Clear Creek, 

where Payton Short afterward lived. 

From the Paynes of Virginia written by Col. Boothe Payne in 1937 (C. J. Carrier, 

Harrisonburg Va. 1990, Second edition pages 240-242) comes this version of the 

1782 Siege of Bryan Station. 

Through the courtesy of Mrs. William H. Coffman of Georgetown, KY., a 

descendant of General and Mrs. John Payne, I [Boothe Payne] had the 

privilege of reading two letters from Mrs. Payne, dated 14 January 1846 and 

25 July 1846 in Scott County. And addressed to Dr. Lyman C. Draper of 

Baltimore, whose valuable collection of historical manuscripts was 

bequeathed to the Wisconsin Historical Society… The letters relate to the 

siege in August 1782 of Bryan Station Ky., one of our pioneer outposts 

against the Indians. They contribute a colorful picture of one of many such 

experiences as our forefathers faced in order to meet the demands of 

territorial expansion. With the seat of government in Richmond, Va., and a 

war with England on our hands, the administrative difficulties of such a 

military situation are clearly apparent. Under the circumstances, local 

commanders were given or obliged to assume complete initiative of action 

and responsibility for results. 

For a scholarly study of Colonel Robert Johnson's part in the perilous 

frontier life of this period, see the Filson Club History Quarterly, Louisville, 

Ky., of January 1931. 

In August 1782 the population of Bryan Station consisted of 43 fighting 

men, 5 men too old to fight, about 32 women, and 64 children, among whom 

was Betsy Johnson, aged 10, the author of the letters of 1846 and the 

future Mrs. John Payne. Captain Robert Johnson was in command; but at the 

time of this story he had gone to Richmond, Va., having recently been 

elected to the Virginia Assembly. His wife and children and his father-in-law, 

"old Mr. Suggett," aged about 70, remained at the Station, a group of cabins 

and blockhouses surrounded by a stockade, for the time being commanded by 

Lieutenant Barnett Rogers. 

Capt. Johnson had gone to the Station with his family in the Fall of 1780. 

Richmond was about 500 miles away over two ranges of mountains. To those 

of us who have been soldiers or the wives of soldiers, the withering 

monotony and detachment of such existence as this scene presents in 


contrast to the luxury of life on a modern Army Post can not fail to inspire a 

pride in the courage and tenacity of our forefathers. 

Early on the morning of our story Captain Johnson's Negro went out of the 

fort to get wood; he was fired on by Indians. A messenger was sent at once 

to Lexington with a call for help. Mrs. Johnson took charge of the magazine, 

and assisted by her children, issued ammunition. The gates were barred and 

the stockading, which had in part been kept down to facilitate egress, was 

set up in place. Lieut. Rogers took 13 men though the West gate to make a 

reconnaissance. They had not gone far before they were fired on by the 

Indians, who considerably outnumbered them and were led by a white man. 

The troops returned the fire as they retreated into the stockade. 

Simultaneously Indians attacked the East side of the Station, brandishing 

tomahawks and in full war paint. By firing through portholes, the garrison, 

after some hours, killed and wounded many Indians. And forced them to 

withdraw. In the meanwhile the messenger reached Lexington, and a party 

of horsemen and a party on foot, going by different routes, went out 

therefrom to relieve the fort. The horsemen succeeded in reaching the 

stockade, but not without being attacked by the Indians near the Station. 

The party on foot came up and attempted to go to the relief of the 

horsemen and were nearly all Killed; a few got back to Lexington but none 

reached the fort. The Indians now resorted to their usual tricks of 

strategy. For example, about sunset two of them climbed a tall Sycamore 

tree on Elkhorn Creek and fired into the stockade. One of them was shot 

down, whereupon the other one crawled down. (The man who shot down the 

Indian later married Betsy's cousin Elizabeth Rogers.) At about three 

o'clock during the night the Indians made a great demonstration by yelling, 

which our part took to be a signal for general attack; but probably conceiving 

the reinforced garrison too much for them, by daylight the Indians had 

withdrawn, and normal life at Bryan's Station was for the time-being 

resumed. 

It was during this period of trouble with the Indians that Jemima Suggett 

Johnson, wife of Col. Robert Johnson, who was in Richmond, Virginia, 

attending the Virginia Assembly to which he had been elected, felt that she 

must do double duty, her own and her husband's. The spring from which the 

residents of the fort got their water was outside the stockade. The women 

knew that if the men went for water, they would certainly be attacked by 

the Indians, but that if they, the women, went, the Indians would probably 

not bother them. Jemima Johnson took her little daughter, Betsy by the 

hand and, with the other women and girls falling line, all with buckets, led 

the way to the spring. 


The story of the Siege of Bryan Station, Kentucky is told on page 132 of the 

February, 1963 Daughters of the American Revolution Magazine. Jemima and 

Betsy are the only women named in the magazine story but there were also 

many other brave women who participated, and all their names are on the 

Memorial at the spring near Lexington, Kentucky. The book, "Bryan Station, 

Heroes and Heroines," by Virginia Webb Howard (Mrs Peyton b. Howard) 

1932, tells the complete story and names those who took part in protecting 

the fort. 

In the Fall of 1783 Robert Johnson and his family moved to Great Crossings, where 

he built a station "well stockaded with two good gates. Mrs. Payne wrote that the 

Indians were very troublesome until after Scott's campaign in May 1791, "in which 

my husband John Payne commanded a company." 

From the Cave's Cove Web site: 

Bryan Station and Scott Countians 

Collins' History of Kentucky states that Bryan, or Bryant, Station "was about five 

miles northeast of Lexington, on the southern bank of the north fork of Elkhorn; 

settled by the Bryans in 1779, but a cabin had been built by Joseph Bryan, a son-inlaw 

of Col. Daniel Boone, in 1776." The history of Bryan Station included a number 

of Indian attacks. In one such attack the women listed below prevented the fiery 

destruction of the station in 1782 by carrying buckets of water from the spring to 

the station. 

Women's names on a memorial wall at Bryan Station Spring are: 

Jemima Suggett Johnson Sara Boone Brooks 

Sally Johnson Harriet Morgan Nelson 

Betsy Johnson Mildred Davis Suggett 

Sara Page Craig Philadelphia Ficklin 

Betsy Craig Mary Herndon Ficklin 

Sally Craig Sara Clement Hammond 

Nancy Craig Fanny Saunders Lea 

Polly Craig Polly Cave 

Lucy Hawkins Craig Elizabeth Craig Cave 

Polly Craig Lydia Saunders 

Frankey Craig Betsy Saunders 

Polly Hawkins Craig Polly Saunders 

Sally Craig (Sally Craig Singleton) Jane Craig Saunders 


Elizabeth Johnson Craig Nancy Craig 

Polly Craig Hannah Cave 

Betsy Johnson was the daughter of Col. Robert and Jemima Suggett Johnson. 

Polly and Frankey Craig were the daughters of Mrs. Sara Page Craig. 

Sally Craig Singleton was the daughter of Mrs. Polly Hawkins Craig, wife of Toliver 

Craig, Sr. 

Polly and Nancy Craig were the daughters of Toliver Craig, Jr. and his wife, 

Elizabeth Johnson Craig. 

Polly, Betsy and Lydia Saunders were the daughters of John Saunders and his wife, 

Jane Craig Saunders. 

Hannah and Polly Cave were the daughters of Richard Cave and his wife, Elizabeth 

Craig Cave. 

Fanny Sanders Lea was the wife of Wainright Lea. 

Sara Clement Hammond was the wife of John Hammond. 

Harriet Morgan Nelso was the wife of Edward Nelson. 

Philadelphia Ficklin was the daughter of Thomas and Mary Herndon Ficklin. 

Mildred Davis Suggett was the wife of John Suggett. 

The Draper Manuscripts contain numerous references to Bryan Station, with 

Document 1MM146, showing a list of defenders who were there in "the campaign in 

1786." The lists, one of which is reproduced below, include many early settlers of 

Scott County. Check other militia lists that are being transcribed and published. 

"A LIST OF CAPTAIN ROBERT SAUNDERS (COMPANY) 

Absts 

Laban SHIPP, Lieut. John HALL, Jr. James BRAY 

Edmond ROWE, Sargt. John HALL, Sr. David FLOURNOY 

Ben GUTTERY, Sargt. William CAVE, Younger Enoch BRADFORD 

Lewis VALANDINGHAM, Corpl. Garrot VENIMON Colby SHIPP 

Wm. ROGERS, Corpl. Richd. SHARPE 

John BRADFORD John PEARSON 

Richd. W. SHIPP George CHRISTIAN 

John GIPSON William CAVE, Jr. 

Wm. ROGERS, Sr. William CAVE, Sr. 

Joseph ROGERS Jas. MONEY 

Jacob STUCKER Lewis GOODEN 

David STUCKER Robert BRADLEY 

Archibald CAMPBELL John SUGGETT 

Robert JOHNSON Jacob MULBERRY 

Julius GIIBBS John BRANHAM 

Thomas FICKLIN Josiah GALE 


Wm. FICKLIN Joseph HARRISON 

Mathew GALE Joseph GALE 

In all 40, Rank and file 37." 

The National DAR (Daughters of the American Revolution) Magazine, February 

1963 contained the following article by Stella Love Robinson, Bryan Station DAR 

Chapter, Lexington, Kentucky. It included a photo of the Historic Spring at Bryan 

Station Memorial. 

The period between the close of the Revolutionary war, 1781, and the War 

of 1812 was a very trying one for the pioneers. 

Great Britain watched them thread their way though the Cumberland Gap, 

build their forts and homes, then waged war against them with the objective 

of extermination. Again and again England sent British officers flying the 

British flag, demanding surrender in the name of King George the Third. The 

British crown was not willing to accept defeat without much stubborn 

resistance and trickery, and the Canadian Ranger and the painted savages 

continued to wage the War of the Revolution on Kentucky soil. 

This was true of Bryan Station About 5 miles northeast of Lexington. Four 

brothers and their families -- William, Morgan, James, and Joseph Bryan, 

form North Carolina, had settled it in 1779. The oldest, William, married a 

sister of Co.. Daniel Boone, whose wife Rebecca was a sister of the Bryan 

brothers. Several other families increased the size of the settlement. By 

1781-82 this small fort near Lexington had a stockade of some 40 cabins 

built in a parallelogram 150 by 600 feet, and though well constructed it was 

on a high hill that made it vulnerable for the savages, who could see the 

place for miles around. Therefore, it was the target for many arrows. 

No Water Supply 

When the pioneers built Bryan station, they failed to consider that there 

was no spring within the walls of the fort, and water would be a necessity if 

an attack should continue long. So on August 16, 1782, when those inside the 

safety of the enclosure saw hostile Indian spies near, particularly in the 

weeds and bushes surrounding the spring, the settlers knew that the 

situation was serious and that it was imperative to prepare for a siege at 

once. Two of the bravest men mounted their horses and rushed to Fort 

Lexington for aid. Now, as never before, did these brave people long for 

water without the danger entailed in going for it. However, it was not a time 


for wishing but for doing, and that immediately. Then occurred one of the 

most courageous episodes in American history! 

Women's Work 

Fetching water was always women's work -- a fact that the Indians knew. I f 

the men went for it now, spies would suspect that they had been discovered. 

The attack might then begin at once, which would be fatal to the garrison. 

The situation was explained to the women, and the decision was theirs alone. 

One by one they volunteered to go for water. This statement also included 

children 4 or 5 years old. Jemima Johnson is reported to have been the first 

to leave. She took her little daughter, Betsy, by the hand, and with a large 

bucket on her arm, started for the spring. One by one, the other women and 

girls followed emboldened by their leader's example, until all the women 

marched to the spring with their moggins and jiggins, laughing and talking 

unconcernedly. On their return, however, they walked faster and faster, and 

fairly rushed into the safety of the fort. 

Their brave experience lasted only a few minutes, but in that time the 

women saw and recognized, close to the spring, and peering at them through 

the bushes, two men who dressed as Indians but who were not -- men feared 

and despised far more than many red men. These were two English brothers, 

Simon and James Girty. Simon Girty i was especially despicable and was known 

to all the settlers as the "white renegade" -- a man hated by all of the 

border people of that day. When he was a boy, his father had been killed by 

the Indians, and he himself had been adopted by them. He had grown up a 

savage and chose to remain one. He had all the cunning cruelty of his foster 

brothers, and by his knowledge of English he became a power among them in 

their schemes to torture the Americans. 

The Siege Begins 

Scarcely were the women safe within the fort when the Indians made a rush, 

but they were repulsed with heavy loss. Then Simon Girty attempted a trick; 

climbing upon a stump and crowing like a cock, he boasted of the multitude 

of his warriors, demanding surrender in the name of his Majesty King 

George, and said he expected reinforcements and cannon with which he 

would blow the stockade to pieces. Closing he called, as a farewell threat: "I 

am Simon Girty, and you all know me". Thereupon, Aaron Reynolds, one of the 

young men in the fortifications, answered Girty in a bold bantering spirit 

that won the admiration of his associates. "Yes, we all know you, Simon Girty. 

I have a trifling dog named Simon Girty because he looks very much like you. 


Bring on your artillery", he shouted. "If you have any, if your naked rascals 

get into this place, we will thrash you out again with switches, for we would 

not use guns on such as you." 

Help From Lexington Fort 

Just at this time the soldiers from Lexington Fort arrived: the Indians, the 

British, and the Tories fled hastily; and Bryan Station was saved. However, 

before leaving permanently, they did a great deal of damage to the crops in 

the field and killed hundreds of cattle, sheep, and hogs. On the following 

morning they took their final and definite departure, after five of their 

number were slain and several wounded. Four of the settlers were killed and 

three injured. 

Restoration of Historic Bryan Station Spring 

After the War of 1812, when the settlers no longer needed the protection 

of the stockade, it was torn down. The Bryan Station spring, too, was not 

used as much as formerly by the people for drinking purposes, therefore, 

from disuse, the water was filled with sand, mud, and gravel and in a badly 

neglected condition. Some patriotic citizens of Lexington felt that the 

spring, once so important historically, should be restored to its former 

usefulness and that a fitting marker should be placed thereon showing what 

occurred at this spot. 

A memorial mow encloses the historic spring at Bryan Station; on a stone 

tablet attached to the monument, these words are engraved: 

In Honor of 

The Women of Bryan Station 

Who, on the 16 th of August, 1782 

Faced a savage host in ambush, and 

With heroic courage and a sublime 

self-sacrifice 

That will remain forever illustrious 

obtained from 

this Spring 

the water that made possible the 

Successful defense of that station 

Organization of Bryan Station Chapter 


National records show that the Bryan Station Chapter was organized 

February 4, 1897, with 23 charter members. A chapter was granted June 15, 

1897, the 60 th anniversary was celebrated with impressive religious services 

and a picnic lunch at the old Cane Ridge Meeting House, near Paris, Kentucky, 

established in 1791. 

Several of the original Bryan Station charter members were direct 

descendants of the patriots who participated in defense of the fort during 

the siege of August 16, 1782. Therefore, it was quite appropriate that this 

new chapter of Fayette County, Lexington, Kentucky, should have been 

named for the old fortification and called Bryan Station Chapter. As of 

January 1962, this organization had 141 members. 

The original Cane Ridge MeetingHouse was made of Logs, and its interior is 

virtually the same now as when it was built in 1791. There has been no change 

in the extremely high Pulpit, the very narrow pews, and the cramped 

balconies. However, a few years ago, to preserve the ancient landmark, the 

exterior of the building was covered with stone. 

i. Simon Girty was also the "villain" in the valiant Defense of Fort Henry by Barbara 

Ray Janowski, in the DAR Magazine for February, 1962 (p. 139). 

Returning to the Johnson Genealogy Book: 

GenerationIII. Child I. 

Betsy Johnson was born in Orange county, Va. On the 16 th of April, 1772; 

married General John Payne, in Scott county, Ky. On the 28 th of June, 1787; 

died in Scott County, Ky. November, 1845, and was buried in the cemetery 

near Georgetown, Ky. Her children were: 

1 Asa 5 John 10 Franklin 

2 Robert 6 Betsy 11 Richard 

3 Nancy 7 Newton 12 Cyrus 

4 Sally 8 William J. 13 Emeline 

9 Thomas Jefferson 

Remarks 

Asa Payne was one of the most systematic and practical farmers the greater 

part of his life and until he was upward of eighty years of age. He was in 

Fort Myers during its siege by British and Indians, and was educated in 

Transylvania University and was one of the first students at West Point 


Military Academy. He was appointed by the government sub-Indian agent at 

Fort Madison and Fort Snelling on the Upper Mississippi and remained there 

during the years of 1810 and 1811. He married Theodocia Turner on 13 

August 1811, daughter of Louis E. Turner of Fayette County Kentucky and 

became a farmer. He served in the war of 1812 as aid-de-camp, with the 

brevet of Major, under his father, Gen. John Payne and was at Fort Meigs 

during the siege by the British and Indians. 

Mr. J Stoddard Johnson, a friend and profiler of Asa wrote the following in 

the Georgetown Times, September 20, 1898: 

On one occasion he gave me an interesting account of the rendezvous 

of the Kentucky troops at Georgetown prior to their departure for 

the seat of war, August 12. 1812. They were camped on what was then 

called Craig's Hill just above the Big Spring. He described to me Hon 

Allen of Shelby who commanded a regiment, Capt. Paschal Hickman 

and others of prominence who afterwards fell in battle. There are 

few living now who witnessed this gathering… Henry Clay, speaker of 

the House of Congress mad a stirring speech… 

He was a magistrate in Scott County for fifteen years, but never 

engaged politics or sought political favor. Was a man of remarkable 

constitution, and died in his one-hundredth year. For a number of 

years, he used to ship his bacon and other farm products down to 

New Orleans, hauling them to Leestown, just below Frankfort, and 

transporting them by flatboat and returning afoot from Natchez 

through what was termed the Wilderness. 

Generation IV. Child VII 

Newton Payne born in Scott county Ky. On the 4 th of January 1800; married 

first, Louisa Nuckles there on the 11 th of October, 1827; died in Warsaw, Ky. 

On the 16 th of March, 1850, and buried in the cemetery near there. One 

child, Louisa, [born January 12, 1829, died May 12, 1911]. Married the second 

time Susan Spencer in Warsaw, Ky. On the 5 th of October, 1836. His 

children were: 

2 Sallie M. 4 Mary E. 6 James 

3 Emeline 5 Newton 

Generation V. Child III. 


Emeline Payne of Marshall, Mo., born in Gallatin county, Ky. On the 1 st of 

April 1841; married George B. Blanchard in Warsaw, Ky. On the 7 th of May 

1865. Her Children were: 

1 Estelle 4 Marcus 8 Bowman 

2 Frank 5 Hiram 9 Mae [and Emma, who was 

left out of this text] 

3 George 6 and 7 Sallie and Oliver 10 Thomas L. Johnson 

[Oliver, a twin of Sallie, was the father of Miriam, my mother] 

Now I will describe some of the famous members of the Johnson family so closely 

entwined in the Payne family. Betsy Johnson Payne had a brother, James Johnson, 

and according to the Johnson Genealogy, "was born in Orange County, Va. On the 1 st 

of January, 1774; married Nancy Payne in Fayette County Ky.; died at Washington 

city, D.C. on the 13the of August, 1826, and buried in the family cemetery at Great 

Crossings, in Scott count, Ky." He had 12 children. 

Remarks 

Co. James Johnson was a Lieutenant Colonel in the war of 1812 and 

distinguished himself at the battle of the Thames as a brave and gallant 

soldier. He was elected to the state senate from Scott county, Ky. In 1808; 

was a presidential elector in 1821; elected to congress in 1825. He united 

with the Baptist church at Great Crossings in 1801, of which he remained a 

faithful member until his death. The old brick Baptist church, now at Great 

Crossings, was built by him in 1810, and is said to be the first brick house 

built in Scott county, Ky. Co. Johnson was one of the wealthiest men of his 

day in the western country. 

[He had 12 children. The first two of his sons Edward P. and William are of 

note.] 

Edward P. Johnson, born in Scott county, Ky. On the 30 th of September 

1797; married Betsy Ward there in 1818; died in Washington County, Miss. 

On the 4 th of April 1866, and was buried in the family vault at Lexington, Ky. 

Remarks 

Edward P. Johnson was a man of great business enterprise, and at one time 

was the leading owner and manager of the largest stage companies 

throughout Kentucky and Indiana in the days that antedated railroads. 


He married early in life a sister of the late Robert J. Ward, by whom he 

raised a family of three sons and two daughters. His eldest daughter 

married Mr. Henry C. Erwin, a grandson of Henry Clay, but died a short time 

afterwards, leaving a young daughter. 

William Johnson [James second son], born at Great Crossings in Scott 

county, Ky. On the 4 th of February 1799; married first Helen Buford at 

Versailles, Woodford County, Ky. On the 18 th of December 1817…Married the 

second time, Ann H. Payne in Scott county, Ky. On the 26 th of July 

1826…Married the fourth time Mrs. Anna E. Clayton in Scott county, Ky. On 

the 3 rd of March 1859; he died there on the 6 th of February, 1875, and 

buried in the cemetery near Geargetown, Ky. [He had several children by 

each of his wives.] 

Remarks 

Gen. William Johnson was educated at the West Point Military Academy, and 

his attainments in mathematics were of the highest order. He was one of the 

most prominent and influential democrats in Scott county, and was elected 

to the Kentucky state legislature almost continuously from 1830 to 1849. He 

was a man of great force of character; his amiable nature and humane 

sympathy made him ever the friend of the unfortunate, as the many who 

came to him for assistance or counsel could attest. He was a blessing to the 

poor of his neighborhood, and loved and honored by all. 

[William Johnson's third son (by his second wife)] col. Jilson P. Johnson, 

born at Great Crossings, in Scott county,Ky. On the 4 th of July, 

1828;married Caddie Flournoy, near Laconia, Arkansas on the 1 st of March 

1849. He had no Children. Died at the Maxwell House, Nashville, Tenn. On 

the 10 th of June, 1897, and buried in the cemetery near Frankfort, Ky. 

Remarks 

Col. Jilson P. Johnson, previous to the late civil war, resided near Laconia, 

Arkansas, engaged in the quiet life of a southern cotton planter, and was one 

of that state's most substantial citizens -- a stanch and life-long democrat - 

- and was elected by that party to the state Legislature. 

He was elected a delegate to the Arkansas State Convention in 1860, when 

that state seceded from the Union. He was a Lieutenant colonel in the 

Inspector General's department of the Confederate government. 

Subsequently he was the proprietor and manager of the Galt House in 


Louisville, Ky. where he became by his courtly and agreeable manners, one of 

the most popular hotel men of the country. 

He resigned his position at the Galt House to take charge of the Maxwell 

House in Nashville, Tenn. and was proprietor of that house at the time of his 

death. 

[The Fourth son of William Johnson, Col. Albert W. Johnson, had a son, Tom 

L.] Tom L. Johnson, of Cleveland, O. born at Blue Spring near Georgetown, 

Ky. On the 18 th of July, 1854; married Maggie J. Johnson at Louisville, Ky. On 

the 8 th of October 1874. [He had three children and became the mayor of 

Cleveland and is the publisher of the Johnson Genealogy.] 

[The third son of William Johnson and his wife (married in 1801), Betsy 

Payne was Madison c. Johnson.] Hon. Madison C. Johnson, born in Scott 

county, Ky. On the 21 st of September, 1806l married Sally A. Clay doughter 

of Gen. Green Clay, in Madison county, Ky. On the 23 rd of December, 1828; 

died at Lexington, Ky. On the 6ty of December, 1886, and buried in the 

cemetery near there. No Children. 

Remarks 

Madison C. Johnson was one of the most eminent men this country ever 

produced. The following graphic sketch, from the pen of John Mason Brown, 

is but a slight tribute to his greatness. He says: 

Major Johnson had lived a long, a useful and an honored life. His years 

had been lengthened out beyond fourscore. They had been filled with 

labors that benefited his people, and disciplined with a self-control and 

habit of justice that instructed all who knew him. They had been replete 

with that noble toil which gathers knowledge. They had been married 

with that generous liberality which freely dispenses to others the 

gathered fruits of long continued industry. He died in the midst of his 

unimpaired usefulness, while he was yet the counselor and guide of the 

community, before decay had diminished his intellectual vigor, or bodily 

infirmity had lessened his zest of life. 

He was the son of William Johnson and wife Betsy Payne, and drew his 

descent, both paternal and maternal from the sturdiest of pioneer 

families. 


Of this parentage Madison C. Johnson was born on the 21 st day of 

September, 1806. The place of his birth was his father's farm in Scott 

county, about one and one-half miles southwest of Georgetown, on the 

road that leads to Frankfort. There he passed his infancy and early 

childhood. 

In 1819 his mother became the wife of Mr. John Allen, of Fayette county 

whose affectionate care was never forgotten. Stepbrothers and half 

brother grew to manhood and passed through life as one harmonious 

family. 

At the home of his stepfather, three moles from Lexington, on the 

Harrodsburg road, he spent the remainder of his youth, attending the 

country school of the neighborhood, reading much and with attention and 

concentration of mind. In boyhood, as in after life he manifested the 

faculty of long continued consecutive thought, and proved himself equal 

to the most difficult self-imposed tasks. He appeared to the casual 

observer to be slow of mind, but the error was speedily dispelled when 

comparison of progress was made among the pupils. The vigor and 

perspicuity of his thought, and the accuracy and extent of his 

information was admitted by all his fellows, and was the pride of his 

preceptor. He conquered his want of success in boyish sports by 

exploring minutely the course of training pursued by the Greek athletes, 

and had the resolution to adhere to a course of exercise, pursued so 

unostentatiously that his comrades did not suspect it, which gave him the 

first place in contests of fleetness and strength. 

At the age of sixteen he entered Transylvania University, and in 1823 

graduated under the presidency of Doctor Holley, the easy head of a 

class of thirty-three. 

He early chose the profession of the law, and after leaving college, 

became a pupil of Martin D. Hardin then the leading practitioner at the 

appellate bar. Mr. Hardin enjoyed the unbounded confidence of the 

courts and the people. His habitual accuracy was such that his 

statements of fact or questions of authority went unchallenged, even in 

argument. He had the faculty of concentrating all his powers upon 

whatever for the time engaged his thoughts. 

Under his instruction Mr. Johnson's intellectual characteristics were 

doubtless greatly strengthened. He confessed ht permanent influence of 

Mr. Hardin's teaching and example, and their effect was manifest. The 


mantle of the preceptor was transmitted to the pupil. After the death of 

Mr. Hardin, Mr. Johnson read with Robert Wickliffe, and under his 

supervision completed his professional preparation. 

Mr. Johnson's success at the bar was soon assured. His accurate and 

intelligent preparation and management of cases made him a favorite 

junior with the older members of the profession. He rapidly came to the 

foremost rank, and for full forty years had confessedly the first place 

at the Kentucky bar. At one tome he contemplated settling at Frankfort, 

and confining his attention to appellate practice, but his decision was 

soon made to fix his abode at Lexington. 

He married in 1828 a daughter of Gen. Green clay, and was left a widower 

with a year. 

It was after the year 1840 that Major Johnson recognized the fact that 

even his vigorous constitution could be overtaxed. He had acquired 

handsome competency, far exceeding the demands of his simple personal 

wants, and sufficient to indulge the liberal benevolence that marked his 

life. He purchased the place which he made his home for mote than forty 

years. Here he found recreation from his professional labors, in the 

midst of fruits and flowers planted by his own hand, and tended with his 

own care. The healthful diversion which he found in his gardens and 

grapery and greenhouses stimulated his acquisition of varied and 

extensive knowledge of the sciences, carried with unwearying interest 

into the great problems that have engaged modern thought. As his years 

increased and he retired gradually from the more engrossing cares of 

general practice, he retained his interest in the law and continued to be 

the trusted counselor, consulted in important affairs as the leader of 

the bar, and patiently advising the poor and the obscure in their troubles. 

The leisure of his later life was never perverted to idleness. He gave of 

his time and attention to the affairs of the city, serving for many years, 

to the day of his death, in its municipal council, guarding the management 

of its finances, and personally overlooking all that concerned its welfare. 

He identified himself with the direction of the Northern Bank of 

Kentucky, and with scrupulous fidelity devoted himself to the daily 

discharge of his duties as its president. A multitude of trusts centered 

in his hands. Still he found leisure to ponder deeply upon affairs of 

national importance, and to finish the material and suggestion for 

important legislation. His unobtrusive thought lay at the foundation of 


some of the most beneficial financial measures of the Federal 

Government. 

And withal there was time for those pleasant meetings in the afternoon 

at his home, when the little company of friends who knew him best and 

loved him most used to gather in reunions which the survivors can never 

forget. 

Major Johnson steadily abjured all ambition of mere place or notoriety. 

He recognized, and with all his might performed, the duty of the good 

citizen. He shrunk from nothing that duty demanded. He served his 

country, his State, his county, and his town heartily and well. The duty 

that was before him he did with simplicity and fidelity, and he felt and 

met the responsibility imposed by his talents and the confidence of his 

people. 

The reputation of Major Johnson as a lawyer will rest chiefly in tradition. 

He took no great care to perpetuate his fame. It satisfied him that he 

did thoroughly well whatever he was called to do. His best productions 

were in the form of oral argument, such as he made in Todd vs. 

Wickliffe, or in the hardly less ephemeral form of a printed brief, as was 

his masterly petition for rehearing in the case of the Commonwealth vs. 

T. C. Jones. 

Such must be the fate of professional eminence. The story of all great 

lawyers is the same. 

His clear discernment preferred the affection and confidence of the 

community to mere applause. He deliberately chose the cooler and more 

sequestered paths of a diligent and useful life rather than the 

unsatisfying and selfish career of mere ambition. He gathered knowledge 

that he might be the better citizen and the more useful counselor. He 

acquired fortune that he might be independent and free to indulge a wise 

benevolence. He bound friends to him with hooks of steel, that the 

memory of his wisdom, his veracity and kindliness might live in their 

hearts. 

He died a fortunate man. His mind retained its vigor, and his body was 

spared all rack of agony. Surrounded by those who were the chosen 

friends of his latter days, he passed away in sleep tranquil as that of an 

infant. 


John T. Johnson was another of Betsy Johnson Payne's brothers. 

Rev. John T. Johnson, born at Great Crossings, Ky. on the 5 th of October, 1788; 

married Sophie E. Lewis in Fayette county, Ky. on the 9 th of October, 1811; died at 

Lexington, Mo. On the 18th of December, 1856, and buried in the cemetery at 

Lexington, Ky. He had ten children. 

Remarks 

Rev. John T. Johnson says: My parents, Robert Johnson and Jeminal his wife 

of the Suggett family, were Virginians by birth, and were members of the 

Baptist Church at Blue Run, before they removed to Kentucky. Robert 

Johnson, my father, was the son of one of three brothers who came from 

England and settled in America. "They were reputed to be from Wales." 

John T. Johnson having acquired, with the best teachers in the country 

afforded, a fair English education, with considerable knowledge of Latin and 

Greek, finished his education at Transylvania University, Lexington, Ky. He 

studied law with his brother Richard M. Johnson, and obtained license to 

practice from the Judges of the Court of Appeals, Rober Trimble, Ninian 

Edward, and Felox Grundy, before he was twenty-one years of age. After his 

marriage, he and his brother Joel managed a mill successfully for several 

years. He says: "about 1 st of February, 1813, I was honored with the place of 

volunteer aid to Gen. W. H. Harrison," then in Fort Meigs. On May 5th, 1813, 

while executing the orders of the General, he had his horse shot under him. 

Being sent to Kentucky with orders to the mounted regiment of volunteers 

commanded by his brothers, R. M. and J Johnson, he was taken with fever 

and did not return. 

In 1815 he was elected to the legislature of Kentucky and for several 

successive years. He was elected to Congress in 1820, 1822 and 1824. In 

1828 he was again sent to the legislature and was appointed judge of the 

Supreme Court of Kentucky. He then abandoned political life, gave up a 

lucrative practice of the law and devoted himself to preaching the gospel. 

He was a distinguished Evangelist of the Christian Church, and made 

concerts in almost every State of the Union. In Lexington, Mo. where he 

died, he was holding a successful meeting and left the pulpit Monday 

morning, took to his bed in the afternoon, and died in a few days. He gave his 

dying testimony that Christ is "all sufficient." His last words were, "I die 

triumphant." 

Jemima Suggett was the daughter of James and Jemima Spence Suggett. James 

Suggett's family were land owners in old Rappahannock County, now Essex County. 


Virginia before 1692; while in Westmorland County (the home of the Spences) are 

recorded grants of land to several members of the Spence family. One, as early as 

1658, was for sixty acres of land granted to William Spence. Jemina's great 

grandfather Spence was a member of the House of Burgesses in 1698-1699, and 

William Spence (thought to be his father) was a member of the first House of 

Burgesses that sat in America. 

[Benjamin Johnson was another brother of Betsy Johnson Payne who had an 

illustrious career. From the Johnson Genealogy Book:] 

Benjamin Johnson, born in Scott county, Ky. On the 22 nd of July, 1784; 

married Matilda Williams, in Scott county, Ky. on the 8 th of September, 1811; 

died at Lexington, Ky. on the 2 nd of October, 1849, and buried in Mount Hilly 

cemetery at Little Rock, Ark. He had eight children…. 

Remarks 

Judge Benjamin Johnson, immigrated to Arkansas in 1821, having been 

appointed one of the judges of that territory by President Monroe. Soon 

after arriving in the territory he settled and located upon a small farm on 

the Arkansas river, a few miles below Little Rock, where he remained till 

1833 when he removed to Little Rock, then a small village of a few hundred 

inhabitants, where he continued to reside the remainder of his life. Before 

leaving Kentucky, Judge Johnson, although only a young man had been several 

times elected judge of the Lexington circuit. 

He remained on the bench during his entire residence in Arkansas, and was 

successively reappointed territorial judge under every change of 

administration, first by Monroe, then by John Quincy Adams, and twice by 

Andrew Jackson. When the territory became a state in 1836, he was 

appointed United States District Judge of the state by General Jackson, 

and held the office until his death in 1849. Judge Johnson, possessed a 

singularly clear and vigorous mind, and remarkable equanimity of temper, 

together with other traits and elements of character that especially fitted 

him for the office of judge. He was highly esteemed by the bar, as well for 

his great learning and impartial judgment, as for the urbanity and suavity of 

his manners, and was universally esteemed by his fellow citizens as a just, 

honorable and upright man. He lived to a ripe old age, honored and respected 

by all, and died without an enemy on earth. 

[Robert Ward Johnson was a son of Benjamin] Robert Ward Johnson, born in 

Scott county, Ky. on the 22 nd of July, 1814; married first Sarah T. Smith at 


Louisville, Ky. on the 10 th of March, 1839. He had six children… Married 

second time Laura Smith at Long Wood, Miss. On the 23 rd of September, 

1863; no children by this second marriage; died at Little Rock, on the 26 th of 

July, 1879, and buried in Mount Hilly cemetery near there. 

Remarks 

The first position Robert W. Johnson ever held was that of prosecuting 

attorney of the judicial circuit embracing its jurisdiction the city of Little 

Rock, Ark. To which he was appointed in December 1840, by Governor Yell. 

Mr. Johnson's first appearance in politics was in 1840 and 1844, when he ran 

on the democratic ticket as a candidate to represent Pulaski county in the 

lower house of the general assembly. 

These two canvasses, the hottest and most exciting perhaps that ever 

occurred in the state, and which were conducted with so much spirit and 

ability by Mr. Johnson, gave him the character, reputation and standing in 

his party that led to his subsequent nomination for congress in January, 

1846, elected without opposition in the following fall, and took his seat in the 

house of representatives, December, 1847. He was re-elected in 1848, and 

again in 1850. In 1852 he declined a re-election, contemplating at the end of 

his then third term in congress to retire from Public service altogether. But 

in the summer 1853, Dr. Solon Borland, then one of Arkansas 

Representatives in the United States Senate, resigned his position, and the 

appointment to fill the vacancy until the next meeting of the legislature 

being offered to him by Governor Conway, Mr. Johnson, at the earnest 

solicitation of his friends, accepted it, and served until November, 1854, 

when the legislature unanimously elected him, not only to fill Dr. Borald's 

unexpired term, but for the additional full term of six years. At the 

expiration of this term, in 1861, Mr. Johnson declined a re-election. 

At the close of the war and after spending some days in Galveston, he went 

direct to Washington City, at the special instance of President Andrew 

Johnson and there, after a free and full conference with the president, in 

which Mr. Johnson assured him of his full and compete recognition of the 

end of the struggle, and his full and complete submission and acceptance of 

the result, he was given letters of protection by the president. Under the 

existing laws the president could not pardon the former members of the 

United States congress who had joined the Southern confederacy, and all he 

could do was to grant letters of protection. So satisfied was President 

Johnson of the assurances made freely and voluntarily by Robert W. 


Johnson, that he did not hesitate to do all that he could under the law to 

relieve him of his disabilities. In January, 1866, he returned to his 

plantations, Chalmette, Glen Lake and Woodburn, located adjoining each 

other in Jefferson county, Arkansas, and within six miles of Pine Bluff. Here 

for two years he struggled and labored as few men have struggled and 

labored at his age in life to save the remnant of his magnificent estate and 

rebuild his large, fortune, now almost totally destroyed. But fate seened to 

be against him, and after two years of disaster and failure, in 1868, he was 

compelled to yield up his entire estate to his creditors. This he did in March, 

1868, and with one hundred dollars, his sole possession, he moved to Pine 

Bluff, Arkansas, and entering into a law partnership with C L. Tannerhill, 

resumed the practice of law. 

This partnership lasted six months, when in August, 1868, feeling that this 

field for his labors did not suit him, he moved with his wife to Washington, 

D. C., and there entered onto a law partnership with General Albert Pike, 

under the firm name of Pike & Johnson. 

In 1877, yearning to again return to the state and people he had served so 

long and loved so well, he dissolved the partnership with General Pike and 

returned to his former home at Little Rock Arkansas. 

[Another and most famous brother of Betsy Johnson was Richard Mentor 

Johnson. I saw his portrait hanging in the gallery of the Daughters of the 

American Revolution headquarters in Washington D.C.] Col. Richard Mentor 

Johnson, born at Beargrass Station [near present day Louisville], in 

Jefferson county, Ky. 17 October 1780, Never married, died in Scott 

county, Ky. on 19 November 1850, and buried in the cemetery at Frankfort, 

Ky. 

Remarks 

Richard Mentor Johnson was a member of Congress from Kentucky for 

twenty-nine years, first in the house from 1807 to 1819 and again from 1829 

to 1837. He served in the senate from 1819 to 1829. He finally closed his 

long and honorable career by serving one term as democratic Vice President 

of the United States from 1837 to 1841 under President Martin van Buren. 

In the book, American Political Leaders (R973.099 Los Altos Public Library) 

Johnson …kept a series of slave mistresses and while vice president left 

Washington D.C. to run a tavern for a year. 

[A newspaper caption under a picture of him in the book is as follows.] 


Only one vice president in the story of the United States has been 

elected by the senate of the U.S. He was Richard Mentor Johnson of 

Kentucky, who served during the administration of President Martin van 

Buren. Johnson was elected by the senate under the twelfth 

amendment, which provides that if no candidate for the office receives 

a majority of the entire number of electoral votes cast, the legislative 

body names the vice president. In the election of 1836 Johnson 

received 147 electoral votes, the same as the total number of votes 

cast for three other candidates. 

Another newspaper article by David Kaplan discussing Dan Quail had the 

following less flattering comment: 

Martin Van Buren won 170 of 294 electoral votes. However, electors 

thought his running mate Richard Johnson, unworthy of the Vice 

Presidency and withheld the votes from him. Denied a majority of 

the Electoral College, Mr. Johnson became Vice President only by 

winning election in the Senate [the first instance of this type of 

election]. [The opposition to Johnson within the party greatly 

increased during his term [1837 to 1841], and the Democratic 

national convention of 1840 adopted the unprecedented course of 

refusing to nominate anyone for the vice-presidency. In the ensuing 

election Johnson received most of the Democratic electoral votes, 

but was defeated by the Whig candidate, John Tyler, according to 

the Encyclopedia Britannica.] 

The Microsoft Encarta Encyclopedia reports the following about the ninth 

vice president: 

Johnson was born in Bryants Station (now part of 

Louisville), Kentucky, and educated at Transylvania 

University (now Transylvania College). He practiced law 

and in 1804 entered public life as a [Democrat] member 

of the Kentucky legislature, later serving in the U.S. 

House of Representatives. He was a colonel in the War 

of 1812 and, according to traditional accounts [while 

leading a Kentucky regiment of mounted riflemen], 

killed the Native American chief Tecumseh in the 

Battle of the Thames. Johnson was a U.S. Senator from 

1819 to 1829, when he again became a member of the 

House, serving until 1837. In the presidential election 

of 1836, he was the running mate of the Democratic 


nominee, Martin Van Buren. Because no vice-presidential 

candidate won a majority in the electoral college that 

year, the contest was thrown into the Senate, which 

elected Johnson to the vice-presidency in March 1837. 

With Van Buren, he unsuccessfully sought reelection in 

1840. 1 

Encarta recommends further reading about Johnson: 

Alotta, Robert I. A Look at the Vice Presidency. Messner, 1981. In 

addition to covering each man, Alotta examines changes in the office. 

Armbruster, Maxim Ethan. The Presidents of the United States and 

Their Administrations. Horizon, 7th ed., 1981. Handy reference 

summarizing careers. 

Asimov, Isaac. Asimov's Biographical Encyclopedia of Science and 

Technology. Doubleday, 1982. Brief biographies with portraits. 

Attwater, Donald. The Penguin Dictionary of Saints. Penguin, rev., 

1984. Reference to the lives and legends of more than 750 saints. 

Bailey, Thomas A. The Pugnacious Presidents: White House Warriors 

on Parade. Free, 1980. Evidence of pugnacity for each president, from 

participation in sports to participation in wars. 

Barzman, Sol. Madmen and Geniuses: The Vice-Presidents of the 

United States. Follett, 1974. Biographies and political careers. 

Burke's Presidential Families of the United States of America. 

British Book Center, 1975. Also includes sketches of vice-presidents. 

Butler, Alban. Lives of the Saints. 4v. Kenedy, rev., 1957. Classics, 

1962. Short, readable biographies arranged by feast days. 

Caroli, Betty Boyd. First Ladies. Oxford, 1987. A look at 37 women 

shows how the job has changed. 

1 "Johnson, Richard Mentor," Microsoft® Encarta® Encyclopedia 99. © 1993-1998 Microsoft 

Corporation. All rights reserved. 


Cook, Denys. Presidents of the USA. David & Charles, 1981. Each 

president's career plus family relationships, education, religion, etc. 

Coucill, Irma. The Founders and the Guardians. Wiley, 1978. Beautiful 

drawings and brief biographies of Canadian governors-general and 

prime ministers. 

Cowan, John Bruce. Canada's Governors-General, 1867-1952. York 

(Toronto), 1952. Brief career biographies, speech extracts, and 

photographs. 

Current Biography. Wilson, 1940- . Articles on people in all fields. 

Issued monthly except December. Yearbooks and cumulations. 

Delaney, John J. Dictionary of Saints. Doubleday, 1980. Brief 

biographies of 5000 saints. 

Donaldson, Gordon. Sixteen Men: The Prime Ministers of Canada. 

Doubleday Canada, rev., 1980. Vivid biographies. 

Durant, John and Durant, Alice. The Presidents of the United States. 

2v. Gaché, rev., 1981. The men and their times; with humor and 

illustrations. 

Farmer, David Hugh. The Oxford Dictionary of Saints. Oxford, 1978. 

One thousand Irish and British saints. 

Great Lives from History: American Series. Ed. by Frank N. Magill. 

5v. Salem, 1987. Biographies of 456 notable Americans past and 

present; wide range. 

Kalberer, Augustine. Lives of the Saints. Franciscan Herald, 1976. 

Short presentations of known facts for saints of the Roman Catholic 

church. 

Kane, Joseph N. Facts About the Presidents. Wilson, 4th ed., 1981. 

Highlights of lives and administrations plus other information. 

Kelly, J. N. D. The Oxford Dictionary of Popes. Oxford, 1986. 

Arranged chronologically, it covers 263 popes, 39 antipopes, and Pope 

Joan. 


McGinley, Phyllis. Saint-Watching. Viking, 1969. Doubleday, 1974. 

Crossroad, 1982. The human side of some of the saints and of some 

"saintly" people. 

National Park Service. The Presidents: From the Inauguration of 

George Washington to the Inauguration of Jimmy Carter. U.S. 

Department of the Interior, 1977. Brief biographies plus historic 

places associated with each president. 

Ondaatje, Christopher and Swainson, Donald. The Prime Ministers of 

Canada, 1867-1968. Pagurian, 1968. Brief biographies with drawings 

of 15 prime ministers; for young readers. 

Parker, Sybil P. McGraw-Hill Modern Scientists and Engineers. 

McGraw-Hill, 1980. Most entries written by the famous scientists 

themselves; realistic portraits included. 

Thomson, George Malcolm. The Prime Ministers: From Robert Walpole 

to Margaret Thatcher. Morrow, 1981. Colorful glimpses of Britain's 

prime ministers. 

Vexler, Robert I. The Vice-Presidents and Cabinet Members: 

Biographies Arranged Chronologically by Administration. 2v. Oceana, 

1975. Reference. 

Whitney, David C. The American Presidents. Doubleday, 6th ed., 1986. 

Concise coverage and chronology of major events in life of each 

president. 

Zuckerman, Harriet. Scientific Elite: The Nobel Laureates in the 

United States. Free, 1979. Shows a surprising number of shared 

characteristics and similar backgrounds. 2 

[Returning to the Johnson Genealogy Book, The last Brother of Betsy 

Johnson Payne was Henry Johnson] Captain Henry Johnson, born at Great 

Crossing, Scott county, Ky. On the 30 th of December, 1794; married Betsy J. 

Flournoy in Fayette county, Ky. on the 2 nd of April, 1816; died at Lake 

2 "Further Reading Subtopics," Microsoft® Encarta® Encyclopedia 99. © 1993-1998 Microsoft 

Corporation. All rights reserved. 


Washington, April 2 nd , 1863, and buried at Chatham, Washington county, 

Miss. He had eleven children… 

Remarks 

Capt. Henry Johnson, at the age of 18 years volunteered with his brother 

Richard M. Johnson, and fought with his regiment in the battle of the 

Thames, and was in the celebrated charge of the mounted men that broke 

through the British lines and caused the surrender. 

He went to the state of Mississippi, established himself on the banks of 

Lake Washington, which was at that time the habitation of Masson's 

celebrated band of robbers. They, seeing the settlement of the county was 

inevitable, decided to abandon it and sold out to Capt. Johnson. He made 

Lake Washington his home, fall, spring, and winter, until his death. He was 

captain of militia, a democrat during his life and in sympathy with the 

rebellion. 

See Part 2 for more history of the Payne Family. 

Appendix 

VIRGINIA'S LAND, by Carol McGinnis 

To understand Virginia genealogy, researchers must know something of its geography. 

Present-day Virginia is divided into several geographic regions, and these terms are 

often used in genealogical and historical literature. From east to west there are five 

areas: the Eastern Shore, the Tidewater, the Piedmont, The Valley, and Western 

Virginia. From north to south there are four regions: the Northern Neck, the North 

Peninsula, the Peninsula, and Southside. Definitions of these nine regions follow: 

EASTERN SHORE: Otherwise known as The Shore, this is the small peninsula south of 

the Maryland line that includes the counties of Accomack and Northampton. 

TIDEWATER: The flat, and sometimes swampy, coastal plain west and inland from the 

Chesapeake Bay to the Fall Line, the Tidewater region comprises about a fourth of the 

state. The Fall Line is an imaginary line marking the upper limits of the tidal flow, and it 

runs north to south through Alexandria, Fredericksburg, Richmond, and Petersburg. 

PIEDMONT: A rolling area of rich farmlands from the Tidewater to the Blue Ridge 

Mountains, the Piedmont extends southwest from Alexandria in the north and comprises 

about half of the state. 

THE VALLEY: The area between the Blue Ridge Mountains, which lie at the western 

edge of the Piedmont, and the Allegheny Mountains, which run along the West Virginia 

border, is known as The Valley or the Valley of Virginia. From Frederick County on the 


north to Rockbridge County on the south, it is the "Shenandoah Valley." To the south 

various other valleys continue the general terrain. For genealogical purposes, the entire 

area is termed "The Valley." The Shenandoah Valley includes the nine counties of 

Augusta, Rockingham, Page, Shenandoah, Warren, Frederick, Clarke, Jefferson, and 

Berkeley, the last two of which are [now] in West Virginia. Prior to 1738 the entire 

Shenandoah Valley was part of Orange County; in 1738 it was cut off from Orange 

County and divided into Frederick and Augusta counties. 

WESTERN VIRGINIA: This is generally anything west of the City of Roanoke and south 

of the Shenandoah Valley. 

NORTHERN NECK: This is the area south from the Potomac River to the 

Rappahannock River and generally east of Prince William and Stafford counties. The 

term also may be used to identify the Fairfax (Northern Neck) Proprietary, which 

extended to the western boundary of present-day West Virginia. 

NORTH PENINSULA: Also known as the Upper Peninsula, this is the region south of the 

Rappahannock River and north of the York River. 

THE PENINSULA: This is the area between the York and James rivers and was the site 

of Virginia's earliest settlement. 

SOUTHSIDE: This is the area south of the James River. 

The terms "Upper" and "Lower" are always used in relation to rivers--not to the directions 

north and south. "Upper" refers to the area closer to the source of the river, and "Lower" 

refers to the area nearer to where the river empties into a larger body of water. 

BOUNDARY DISPUTES: The western boundaries of Virginia and Pennsylvania 

remained unsettled until 1780. The district of West Augusta was an area of northwestern 

Virginia (now West Virginia) and southwestern Pennsylvania below the Ohio River. The 

district of West Augusta, at first considered a jurisdiction within the County of Augusta, 

declared independence from it, but enjoyed a short life span. But it signifies a 30-year 

controversy and nearly serious conflict between Virginia and Pennsylvania. Eventually 

the area included within the District was divided, the southern part remaining within 

Virginia (and now West Virginia) and the northern part now comprising the Pennsylvania 

counties of Greene, Fayette, Washington, Westmoreland, and parts of Allegheny and 

Beaver. Virginia's southern boundary with North Carolina was disputed until 1727, when 

the boundary was finally settled at Point Comfort. 

====================================================== 

SPOTLIGHT ON VIRGINIA 

Interest in Virginia genealogy is virtually limitless. Founded in 1607, it was our oldest 

colony. It was also one of the biggest. In the mid 1600's there were less than 4,000 

people and eight counties (or shires) in all of Virginia. At one time or another, 172 

different counties existed in Virginia, and the Virginia colony controlled all the land that 

eventually became the state of Kentucky, portions of Ohio, and eventually West Virginia. 

Literally thousands of books have been published on one or another aspect of Virginia 

genealogy, and we ourselves are the publishers of several hundred. Little wonder why it 


is important for the researcher to gain a grasp of Virginia geography. 

The foregoing article on "Virginia's Land" is just a sample of what you will find in Carol 

McGinnis's encyclopedic textbook, VIRGINIA GENEALOGY: Sources & Resources. Ms. 

McGinnis devotes entire chapters to such subjects as Virginia land, people, and history; 

immigration and migration; vital records; Bible and church records; census records; land 

and court records; manuscripts and records abroad; ethnic Virginia; slavery and African 

Americans; counties and their records; independent cities and their records; 

genealogical collections; and genealogical societies. Several sections of the book are 

based on answers to questionnaires that the author sent to Virginia courthouses and 

historical and genealogical societies. The bibliography alone runs to 125 pages and 

contains references to 1,421 books and articles on all aspects of Virginia genealogy. 

This is a real giant of a book--and the standard by which all future textbooks on Virginia 

genealogy will be measured. 

http://www.genealogical.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&item_number=3526 

If you have Virginia ancestors you will also want to strike pay dirt among compiled 

genealogies. The four CDs listed below contain thousands of compiled genealogies of 

Virginia families, which span the 1600s through the 1900s and name over 600,000 

persons. Easily searchable with the click of a mouse, each CD is a great bargain 

because it represents an equivalent value in books (between $250.00 and $750.00) on 

Virginia sources and resources for the genealogist. 

VIRGINIA GENEALOGIES AND BIOGRAPHIES (CD) 

This two-disc CD set contains a huge collection of Virginia genealogies and biographies, 

the majority of which were compiled by recognized authorities from source records 

dating from the 1600s to the early 1900s. 


GENEALOGIES OF VIRGINIA FAMILIES FROM VMHB (CD) 

This disc contains all five volumes of "Genealogies of Virginia Families from The Virginia 

Magazine of History and Biography," published originally by GPC in 1981. The five 

volumes together contain all the family history articles that appeared in VMHB from its 

inception in 1893 to 1977. 


GENEALOGIES OF VIRGINIA FAMILIES FROM W&MCQ 

This CD contains all five volumes of "Genealogies of Virginia Families from The William 

and Mary College Quarterly" and the single volume of "Virginia Gleanings," which had 

originally been published serially in "The Virginia Magazine of History and Biography." 


GENEALOGIES OF VIRGINIA FAMILIES FROM TQ 


This Family Archive CD contains all four volumes of "Genealogies of Virginia Families 

from Tyler's Quarterly" and the multi-volume "Virginia Colonial Abstracts" by Beverley 

Fleet. 


======================================================= 

NEW BOOKS & CDs FOR MARCH 

Virginia continues to be a dominant theme for this week's newsletter. Among our 

featured CDs for March you will find an unsurpassable collection of Virginia military 

records for the colonial wars, the Revolution, and the War of 1812. This CD is just one of 

four Family Archive CDs crammed with early Virginia source records available at 

www.genealogical.com. Our other March CDs consist of compiled genealogies or source 

records pertaining to ante-bellum settlers of Alabama, Arkansas, Mississippi, Ohio, and 

Pennsylvania, as well as a fifth CD comprised of English source records containing 

references to Americans. 

The year 2007 marks the 400th anniversary of the founding of Jamestown, the first 

permanent English colony in America. For our part as publishers we will be offering 

several books in commemoration of the founding of Jamestown. JAMESTOWNE 

ANCESTORS, by Virginia Davis, a list of approximately 1,000 persons who are known to 

have landed or resided there between 1607 and 1699, comes out this month. As 

counterpoints to Jamestown, we have also reprinted two works by Charles Edward 

Banks that account for many of the earliest 17th-century settlers of New England. 

We are also pleased to announce the fourth volume in Vernon Skinner's distinguished 

series of early Maryland probate records, ABSTRACTS OF THE TESTAMENTARY 

PROCEEDINGS of the Prerogative Court of Maryland. Augmenting this new Maryland 

title are reprints of two of last year's most distinguished multi-volume works: the twovolume 

fifth edition of Paul Heinegg's definitive study of free African Americans in the 

Upper South and Jeannette Austin's three-volume collection of genealogies concerning 

the pioneering families of Georgia. 

Other March reprints include a guidebook to the genealogical sources of World War I; 

early records from Washington County, Georgia; a gazetteer of New England; a list of 

Scots who emigrated to Holland; and several other venerable titles. 

Following is a complete list of our featured titles for March. Immediately below is a link to 

the page on our website where you'll find short descriptions of each one: 

http://www.genealogical.com/content/products_new_genealogy.html 

CDs: 

Ohio Land and Tax Records, 1787-1840 

Pennsylvania German Church Records, 1729-1870 

The Deep South: Genealogical Records of Alabama, Arkansas, and Mississippi 

Virginia Military Records: Colonial Wars, Revolutionary War, War of 1812 

American Source Records in England 

BOOKS: 

Jamestowne Ancestors, 1607-1699: Commemoration of the 400th Anniversary of the 


Landing at James Towne, 1607-2007 (Available soon) 

The English Ancestry and Homes of the Pilgrim Fathers 

The Planters of the Commonwealth 

The Great War [World War I guide] 

The Reconstructed 1790 Census of Georgia 

Abstracts of the Testamentary Proceedings of the Prerogative Court of Maryland: 

Volume IV: 1677-1682 & 1702-1704 

Free African Americans of NC, VA, and SC from the Colonial Period to About 1820. Fifth 

Edition. In Two Volumes 

The Georgia Frontier. In Three Volumes 

English Duplicates of Lost Virginia Records 

The New England Gazetteer 

Records of Washington County, Georgia 

Scots-Dutch Links in Europe and America, 1575-1825 

Omitted Chapters from Hotten's "Original Lists of Persons of Quality" 

The following may fit in someplace. 

got this off the Payne list. Who would think to view this if you were not 

a Payne/Poindexter. 

*********FROM THE PAYNE LIST******** 

This is one way that the Paynes connect with the Poindexters....hope this 

will help 

Descendants of John Payne 

(then it goes through several people) Then we come to William: 

3. WILLIAM3 PAINE (JOHN2 PAYN, JOHN1 PAYNE) was born Bet. 1677 - 1697 

in Westmoreland County, Virginia, and died Abt. 1735 in Hanover County, 

Virginia. He married ELIZABETH POINDEXTER 

Notes for WILLIAM PAINE: 

July 1722..William began making arrangements to move: 

Indenture between William Payne Jr. and Francis Aubrey July 25, 1722. For 

100 actres, part of a patent granted to John Payne, grandfather to the 

aforesaid William Jr. for 400 acres, and by the said John's will bequeathed 

to John Payne, father to said William Payne,Jr. and by his last will and 

testament given to his two sons John Payne and William Payne Jr. 

Westmoreland County, VA Bk1 p. 354 

July 1723 


MEADOWS PEOPLE. How many Frances/Francis Aubrey's could there be. 

We have Frances Aubrey b. 1678 d. bef. 1721 Essex m. to John Meador..... 

Could this Francis Aubrey named in the Westmoreland deed be her father? 

Westmoreland and Essex are right next to each other. My previous finding on 

Thomas Meades and Rawleigh Travers was also in Essex. 

Just remember when you are researching over along the Rappahannock River 

Counties back in the mid 1600's there were less than 4,000 people in all of 

Virginia at that time. There were only eight counties or Shires. 

Seems like everyone and there brother/neighbor were named in these 

documents, deeds etc..... read everything. Janean 

pjd 

3/10/07 

Capt John Smith ‘s History of Virginia states -- 

Sir Robert, and his brothers John and William came to Virginia in 

the second supply with Governor Yardley. Patrick Payne, a family researcher has stated 

in 2007 that Sir Robert had only one brother and neither of them came to America. 

Came over in the second Supply during Yardley’s Administration ca 

1620 under immediate auspices of his brother Sir Robert 

Deed in 1658 to son Richard Payne ,Planter, carpenter and boat owner. 

. In Captain John Smith's “History of Virginia” we find that “John, 

William, and Sir Robert PAYNE came to the Colony of Virginia in the 

second supply, Governor Yardleys.” John Payne was a member of the 

London Charter Company, and sold his shares in the Company to Dr. 

Gulston. He was succeeded by his son Richard PAYNE, b. 1633, who 

married and had son, John PAYNE, of Lancaster County, Va., b. 1670, 

======================================= 

Court records 

1654: Mr. John Payne ordered by the Court to appraise the contents 

of Mr. 

Raleigh Travers' tobacco warehouse. John Payne made a trip to England. 

1655: John Payne returned from England. John Payne moved to and 

occupied his plantation on Pepetick Creek, then in Lancaster County, VA. 

John Payne was granted land for the importation of his wife Margaret. 

She 

may have been his 2nd wife. Mr. John Payne appointed collector of tithes 

for Lancaster County, VA. Mr. John Payne charged with seven tithables in 

Lancaster County, VA. 

1656: Mr. John Payne appointed collector of tithes for Lancaster County, 

VA. Mr. John Payne charged with seven tithables in Lancaster County, VA. 

Lancaster County, VA Court ordered Mr. John Payne to make one pair of 

stocks and a whipping-post for the county, for which he was to receive 


400# for the wooden-work thereof, the iron-work being otherwise 

provided. These implements were possibly for the new county of 

Rappahannock, which was organized in this year. 

1658: Mr. John Payne and Mr. John Catlett witnessed the noncupative will 

of Richard Lawson, brother of Epaphroditus Lawson whose daughter 

Elizabeth married Robert Payne of old Rappahannock Co., VA. 

1660: 7 Feb 1659/60 - John Payne made an affidavit in connection with 

his bill for transporting 1500 lbs. of pork to James Town by boat, 

his age 

being recorded in the affidavit as "44 years or thereabouts". 

1665: Mr. John Payne was one of the Vestrymen of Sittingbourne Parish, 

old Rappahannock Co., VA. Mr.Francis Doughty was Rector. 

1674: Margaret Payne joined John Payne in a deed. 

end of forwarded notes 

========================================================= 

On Mar 10, 2007, at 7:54 AM, David S. Payne wrote: 

Kuzzins, 

I notice several posts on this Payne list saying that the John 

Payne 1615-1690 has the "SIR" in his name. 

I have him listed as John Payne, Sr. as he has a son John Jr. 

Did he have that title? Also I have seen in some mail where most 

of his sons have the title "Sir" also. 

Does anyone have anything that proves that these guys were titled 

"Sir"? If so, I need to add that title to my files. 

These Paynes are not my direct line but they connect to some of 

my other surnames tho distant. 

Back in 2004 Someone sent me 4 ancestors of this Sir John Payne 

but they say it is not proven. Here it is. Has anyone proven anyof 

this yet? 

1 John Payne ca 1483-ca 1526 

2 John Payne 1510-25 Sep 1549 md Jane Couchman 

3 Nicholas Payne 1535-24 Jan 1617 md Agnes Croften 

4 Moses Payne 23Apr 1581-21 Apr 1643 md Mary Benison (Moses had 

two other wives) 

5 Sir John Payne 1615 -1689 md Margaret Jennings (Robinson?) 

(First Payne Emigrant) 

Thanks, 

David S. Payne, See my webpages at the bottom of this mail. 

payne-request@rootsweb.com wrote: 

If you have an interest into the ancestry of John Payne and the Paynes of Virginia, I 

would urge you to search the archives of the Payne mailing list at 

http://www.rootsweb.com. I won't go so far as to say that I have proven the ancestry of 

John, but I can say that the record evidence is far more substantial than anything else 


out there. What I wish would happen is that folks would read that research and then use 

it to dig deeper if they are not satisfied with my suggestion that John belonged to the 

Huntingdonshire Payne family (the same one the Sir Robert belonged too- but he WAS 

NOT Sir Robert's brother (he was far to young for that. Sir Bob died in 1631. John died 

1689/90). Instead, I believe the evidence suggests that John belonged to another line of 

the family from Southoe, Huntindonshire. Read the research. Prove me wrong (or even 

better, prove me right). 

Now for some comments on all these e-mails: 

Capt John Smith ‘s History of Virginia states -- 

Sir Robert, and his brothers John and William came to Virginia in 

the second supply with Governor Yardley.. 

If this is a quote from Smith, it is inaccurate. Sir Robert Payne, subscriber to the Virginia 

Company of London in 1609 and 1612, had no brothers. He was an only child of Robert 

Payne who died in 1603, leaving a will that only mentions son Robert. A transcription of 

this will has been posted (at least once- if not a dozen times) on the mailing list (along 

with many other family records). 

Came over in the second Supply during Yardley’s Administration ca 

1620 under immediate auspices of his brother Sir Robert 

Another inaccuracy. Sir Robert Payne never came to America (at least there is no 

evidence that he did). Given the facts that he was a member of Parliament for 

Huntingdonshire in 1614, 1621, 1626 and 1628 and that his 11 children were born: 1598, 

1599, 1600, 1604, 1605, 1606, 1607, 1609, 1611, 1614 and 1615, he would have been 

hard pressed to have made a trip to America before his death in 1631 (not to mention 

the various other records he left to indicate that he never left England). If he ever did 

come over, he hardly had time to step off the ship before he would have had to return to 

England to either have another child or take his seat in Parliament. 

Deed in 1658 to son Richard Payne ,Planter, carpenter and boat owner. 

. In Captain John Smith's “History of Virginia” we find that “John, 

William, and Sir Robert PAYNE came to the Colony of Virginia in the 

second supply, Governor Yardleys.” John Payne was a member of the 

London Charter Company, and sold his shares in the Company to Dr. 

Gulston. He was succeeded by his son Richard PAYNE, b. 1633, who 

married and had son, John PAYNE, of Lancaster County, Va., b. 1670, 

The "2nd Supply to Virginia" (as I know it) occurred in the Fall of 1608. A list of the 

known (and actual) settlers (as opposed to "adventurers" who were mainly just 

investors) can be found at http://www.apva.org/history/2ndsup.html . I don't know if this 

is a complete list or not, but I assure you, no source on the 2nd Supply (or any other ship 

throughout the 17th century) lists a "Sir" Robert Payne among its passengers. Sir Bob's 


daughter, Elizabeth Payne was christened on 29 June of 1609. If Sir Bob left England on 

the 2nd Supply (or arrived in Virgina) in the Fall of 1608, that doesn't leave much of a 

window for him to have been Elizabeth's father (September would have been the 

LATEST he could have possibly LEFT England. Sept - June = 9 months). 

======================================= 

Court records 

1654: Mr. John Payne ordered by the Court to appraise the contents 

of Mr. 


Right. "Mr." John Payne as opposed to "Sir". John Payne (ca. 1615-1689/90) of Virginia 

was not a knight and he therefore should not be referred to as if he were one. 

Back in 2004 Someone sent me 4 ancestors of this Sir John Payne 

but they say it is not proven. Here it is. Has anyone proven any of 

this yet? 

1 John Payne ca 1483-ca 1526 

2 John Payne 1510-25 Sep 1549 md Jane Couchman 

3 Nicholas Payne 1535-24 Jan 1617 md Agnes Croften 

4 Moses Payne 23Apr 1581-21 Apr 1643 md Mary Benison (Moses had 

two other wives) 

5 Sir John Payne 1615 -1689 md Margaret Jennings (Robinson?) 

(First Payne Emigrant) 

The fact of the matter is that John's ancestry has never been proved- and there is no 

evidence at all for associating him with the Payne family from Kent, England, above. 

None. Nada. Zippo. Dead End. The histories written about that family don't even include 

a son by the name of John for Moses Payne (or Paine as they prefer)with any of this 

wives. This family settled in Massachusetts by the way... 

I did not know Margaret's last name 

was Robinson though. 

"The Paynes of Virginia" states that the maiden name of John's wife MAY have been 

JENNINGS. But then refers the reader to a reference to ROBINSON, if I recall correctly. 

There is a record where a Richard (?) Robinson refers to John as his closest kinsman. 

For that reason, some have concluded that Margaret was a Robinson. Fact is, that is still 

an open question too. It could have been either. 

Regards, 

Patrick 


Nov. 26, 2007 

Just so there is no confusion about this (and glad I'm not trashing the gospel!), the 

History of Parliament, which maintains records and biographical sketches on all 

members of Parliament (in which both Sir Robert Payne of Huntingdonshire (d. 1631) 

and Sir Robert Payne of Barton Stacy, Hampshire (d. 1658) are mentioned) maintains 

that there was NO FAMILY RELATION between these two families. Other sources 

(although less reputable in my opinion) conclude the same thing. I believe there have 

been some attempts to prove otherwise (myself included), but they have all come up 

short. 

With that said, when we are talking about the Paynes of Virginia (in whatever county 

they appear- and whatever branch), there has been NO genealogical evidence to 

assume that there was a relationship between them and Sir Robert Payne (d. 1658) of 

the Barton Stacy, Hampshire, Payne family. None at all that any of his family or 

descendants ever came to America- at any time. 

Rather, the evidence supports the idea that the Paynes of Virginia likely belonged to the 

Huntindonshire Payne famiy- although ABSOLUTELY not descendants of Sir Robert 

Payne who died in 1631. All of his children have been accounted for and he did not have 

any sons by the names of JOHN, WILLIAM or THOMAS as our old (and apparently 

never ending) family traditions maintain. Although he did have a son by the name of 

Robert, he died the year following his father in 1632 (his will, and that of his mother, 

Dame Elizabeth (Rotheram) Payne, are available online at the PRO. Sir Robert's will has 

never been located). 

To recap: Paynes of Virginia- no relationship to Sir Bob of Barton Stacy, Hamps. But 

probably related to Sir Bob of St. Neots, Hunts. (although definitely not direct 

descendants). 

The Rootsweb archive contains my research notes on the St. Neots, Hunts family and 

the evidence connecting the Paynes of Virginia to them. This evidence comes from 

primary records cited in the posts, which include: Family wills and deeds; Parliamentary 

records; and High Court of the Admiralty records. The most important of these is in 

regard to the will of Robert Payne (d. 1622), Citizen and Salter of London, which 

mentions his brother, "Florentine Payne." History of Parliament researchers have stated 

that Robert Payne of 1622 had been a member of the Huntingdonshire family, which 

means that Florentine Payne would have been too. 

Apart from Robert Payne's will of 1622, the only time the name "Florentine Payne" has 

ever been seen (anywhere) was later (1650s) in Virginia where he was a Burgess and 

business partner of Richard Lee I (the Lee family emigrant ancestor). During the time 

that Florentine was partnered with Lee, John Payne (d. 1689/90)(the Paynes of Virginia 

emigrant ancestor- who was NEVER a Knight or called "Sir") appears in Virginia where 

he essentially followed the same path as the Lee's from Lancaster up into Westmoreland 

where his family maintained a connection with the Lee's. John's son, William Payne (d. 

1698), appointed Richard Lee II to be the guardian of his children when he died. 

That's powerful evidence. It might not be proof, but powerful evidence that should make 

us take a close hard look at the section in the "Paynes of Virginia" that initially led us to 


(and then away from) the Paynes of Huntingdonshire. While we're at it, we should also 

(re)read the section about those old family traditions about the imaginary brothers, John, 

William and Thomas Payne that supposedly settled all over Virginia. The author gave us 

several very good reasons to bury those traditions- but they just keep hanging on 

despite 70 years of time for us to do it (even without the rather convincing evidence that 

has come to light since then). 

Of course, this "powerful evidence" would be much more powerful if we could confirm 

that Robert Payne of the 1622 will was, in fact, a member of the Huntingdonshire family. 

Right now, all I have is the word of a senior research fellow with The History of 

Parliament Trust who is writing the biographical sketch for Sir Robert of Hunts. He says 

that he was, but it looks like we'll all have to wait for the next publication in 2010 (maybe 

a bit sooner if things go well). Even without that proof at the moment, there are other bits 

of strong evidence gleaned from the will that supports that he was, because Roberts will 

also mentions his nephew, John Withers, "my sisters son." It is known through records of 

the Huntingdonshire family that one of its members had married a Withers and that the 

John Payne of the Admiralty records had a servant by the name of John Withers. 

That's all I have to add. 

Patrick 

Sent: Nov 26, 2007 12:55 PM 

To: payne@rootsweb.com 

Subject: Re: [PAYNE] the other Sir Robert Payne/Paine 

I descend from the Paynes of Lancaster Co. VA. and most likely if the 

stories are correct, THIS line. I obviously do not have documented proof, 

and have only touched on the Payne research but I have notes on this line. 

In Captain John Smith's "History of Virginia" we find that "John, William, 

and Sir Robert PAYNE came to the Colony of Virginia in the second supply, 

Governor Yardleys." John Payne was a member of the London Charter Company, 

and sold his shares in the Company to Dr. 

Gulston. He was succeeded by his son Richard PAYNE, b. 1633, who married 

and had son, John PAYNE, of Lancaster County, Va., b. 1670, 

======================================= 

Court records 

1654: Mr. John Payne ordered by the Court to appraise the contents of Mr. 


THIS Sir John Payne would be my 10th great grandfather. 

The Rawleigh TRAVERS mentioned above was my 1st cousin 11 times removed. 

His sister Elizabeth married my 8th great grandfather John Chynne. 


This Rawleigh Travers received a POA from Thomas Paine to sue Moore 

Fauntleroy. 

From Sir John Payne 1615-1690 there were sons Richard and George both having 

sons named William. 

Richards son (William 1660-1726) married Susannah Merriman (this is my line) 

Georges son (William 1702-1769) married Mary Ball 

All these lines are mostly in Lancaster Co. some were in Richmond, King 

George, Northumberland, all the tidewater counties. I have a lot of 

information that I have "collected" and studied and yes, even actually done 

some research/work on. LOL 

I quote nothing as gospel. 

Janean 

-----Original Message----- 

From: payne-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:payne-bounces@rootsweb.com] On 

Behalf Of Steve Payne 

Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:17 PM 

To: PAYNE-L@rootsweb.com 

Subject: [PAYNE] the other Sir Robert Payne/Paine 

Alexander Brown in The Genesis of the United States (1891, p. 963) 

suggested that the William Payne involved in the East India and 

North-West Passage Companies was probably the William Payne, Esq. of 

Highgate who died in 1628. Brown might be wrong here, but, other 

than apparently there not being an established link of this William 

Payne to other colonial Payne branches, I wonder why there has not 

been more discussion or comment about these particular Paynes, who at 

the time were very wealthy and had strong Royalist sentiments. This 

family does seem associated with early 17th Century colonial traders. 

I will share below what little I have been able to piece together 

about this Payne family, and perhaps others can add to or modify this 

summary. I have been trying in recent years to find info about a 

number of English Payne/Paine/Payn branches that seem possible 

American immigrants (prior to about 1730). Patrick has certainly 

provided a lot of info and clues through his many posts here and 

elsewhere, and I hope that he and others with such broader interests 

can continue to add to an increasing info base. 

Some of you know that Sir Robert Payne (M.P. of Huntingdon) was 

hardly the only Payne or Paine who were knighted. Another Sir Robert 

Payne/Paine was the eldest son of William Paine, esq. of Highgate, a 

very prominent residential area near London. This Sir Robert was 28 

years old at his father's death in 1628 

(www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=45432). This Sir Robert 


Paine died in 1658, and prior to then his wife, Dame Mary, had died 

(1652), as well as some of children, such as Susan and Robert. Sir 

Robert's son, William, was baptized in 1649. Sir Robert was 

apparently knighted in 1632. The Letters of John Chamberlain (1939, 

p. 203) reveals William Payne of Barton Stacy, Hampshire, and 

Highgate, Middlesex also had a daughter, Judith, who married William 

Drury, the son of Sir Henry Drury, in 1618 in London. Several 

sources associated with narratives about Stephen Batchelor's life, 

also comment on a Sir Robert Payne of Barton Stacy, Hampshire who had 

a manor there and was Sheriff of Hampshire and a churchwarden . The 

manor of Barton Stacy was sold to Sir Robert Payne in 1620 by the 

Salmon family. From various British history web sites, we have the 

following: In the Highgate area, Sir Robert owned a large estate 

called Parkfield that was sold in 1663. At one time, Sir Robert 

lived in the very exclusive houses in Highgate known as the Blue 

House and the Arundel House. The Blue House was sold during the 

Interregnum to Henry Pierrepont. Sir Thomas Gardiner sold the 

Arundel House to Sir Robert, and his son William sold it in 1670 to 

Francis Blake. Sir Robert had fallen into considerable debt by the 

time that he died. William Payne, son of Sir Robert, married Mary 

Blackwell, daughter of Samuel Blackwell. 

From Survey of London by the London County Council (1935, pp. 

50-52), Dame Mary Paine, was a half-sister to a Thomas Howe of 

Oxford's Queen's College and Gray's Inn (Howe was born about 

1615). Thomas Howe seems to have been the son of a Thomas Howe of 

South Ockendon, Essex and have been married in 1640/1 to Sara, 

daughter of William Geere, a sea captain and draper of London. This 

Captain William Geere was involved with the East India Company and 

high-profile colonial traders such as Courteen, Cloberry, Humphrey 

Slaney, and Maurice Thompson. His grandson, Dennis Geere died 

shortly after his arrival as an early settler of Lynn, MA. I wonder 

about a few references to both a William Payne and Sir Robert Payne 

that exist in early Bermuda records, and if the William Payne who 

held shares in 

Smith's Tribe in Bermuda (around 1620) could have been from this 

Highgate family or from other better known Huntingdon or Suffolk Payne 

branches. 

I do not have much more info about these two Williams and Sir Robert 

Paine in Baton Stacy and Highgate. I have noted one instance in 

which Patrick in his research made a passing comment about this Sir 

Robert Paine of Highgate, but I cannot find other references to them 

in the typical web resources. Like many other English Payne 

branches, I can find some info about these individuals, but I often 

cannot go far 

enough to make what might be larger leaps or linkages in my broader 

research interests. Hope someone else can add some info on this 

particular 

trail. Thanks. 

--- Steve 


I have looked into this issue of whether William Payne, Sr. who married Elizabeth Pope 

was the son of John Payne of Virginia b. abt 1615 and I came to the same conclusion as 

Col. Brooke Payne. According to Patrick Payne's research, John Payne was a neighbor 

of the Richard Lee family. And William Payne, Sr. in his will mentions his loving friend 

Richard Lee and entrusts the guardianship of his children to Richard Lee II. This 

association with the Lee family alone makes a convincing argument that William Payne, 

Sr. was the son of John Payne given the facts that John Payne lived next door to 

Richard Lee II, and William Payne mentioned him as his "loving friend". 

Chuck, cancertech7@yahoo.com 

I believe I descend from William Payne and Elizabeth Pope through 

William Jr. I stood in the graveyard at the Old Yeocomico Church 

with my husband proclaiming, "would the real William Payne, please 

stand up"...... no one moved. I saw the McCarty tombs. 

I got this book to learn about My Paynes and for local history. Have 

not finished yet. This author seems to make a differentiation 

between this William Payne and the William Payne, son of John. In 

the Paynes of Virginia, it seems to be the same. Has anyone out 

there done any research with this issue. It may be a generational 

thing. 

Ginny 

This is interesting that you mention Elizabeth Pope being married to William 

Payne Sr. 

I don't know if any of you notice a posting I made here recently that I have 

Capt. Daniel McCarty 1679-1724 married to Sarah Payne (no parents, dates or 

locations) but have a note on her stating that Daniel was married to 

Elizabeth Pope-Payne. 

NO IDEA where I got this information, but if it is true, Daniel being b. 

1679 would have been long after Elizabeth Pope Payne if she was married to 

William, IF he was the son of John b. 1615. But that's not to say there 

wasn't more than one Elizabeth..... I'm sure there very well may have been. 

I show John Payne's sons as Richard and George so far. Now Richard had a 

son William, b. 1660. 

Richard Lee the immigrant was born 1617/18 so he would have been the same 

age as John Payne. He had a son Richard. He also had a son Hancock Lee who 

had a boy Richard Lee. 

So John Payne and Richard Lee most likely were friends, and then their boys, 

William Payne and Richard Lee were friends. All is supposition without 

dates etc. but there are just so many to sort out. 

Janean 


Yes. Elizabeth Pope, born June 1667 or 1677, the daughter of Humphrey Pope, was 

married first to William Payne and after William Payne, Sr. died, she married Captain 

Daniel McCarty. She died in 1718 and Capt. Daniel McCarty married Anne Lee 

FitzHugh, daughter of Richard Lee II and Lettice Corbin Lee. Richard Lee II was the 

guardian of William Payne, Sr.'s children so here we see the Lee-Payne connection 

again. Daniel McCarty even mentions his stepson William Payne (Jr.) in his will. Chuck 

Anne (Lee) FitzHugh McCarty was the daughter of Richard Lee II and Lettice (Corbin) 

Lee. Lettice (Corbin) Lee was the daughter of Henry Corbin and Alice (Eltonhead) 

Corbin. Anne Lee married William FitzHugh first and then she married Captain Daniel 

McCarty. 

Lettice Lee who married William Ball was the daughter of Henry Lee, son of Richard 

Lee II and Lettice (Corbin) Lee. So she was the granddaughter of Lettice Corbin Lee. 

Most of the information here comes from Paul C. Nagel's book The Lees of Virginia. 

Hope this clarifies things a little, 

Chuck 

There was recently a post to the list that mentioned Sir Robert Payne (1600-1658) of 

Barton Stacey, Hampshire in which there was some confusion about his descendants 

coming to America. The following should set the record straight, showing that all of Sir 

Bob's children (with the exception of son William) died at a young age in England. As for 

son William, he was born in 1646 and, as late as 1670, was still in England, fighting to 

retain his inheritance. There is no mention that William had any children. This 

information comes from 'Arundel House, Old Hall and the Lawns', Survey of London: 

volume 17: The parish of St Pancras part 1: The village of Highgate (1936), pp. 46-53. 

URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=65011&strquery="Payne". 

Date accessed: 17 December 2007. 

1641–58. 

Sir Robert Payne was the son of William Payne of Barton Stacey, Hampshire, and of 

Highgate, by Susan his wife, daughter of John May of Kent. (ref. 74) William Payne died 

on 9th October, 1628, when his son was 28 years of age. Robert Payne was appointed 

Sheriff of Hampshire in 1631 and was knighted on 4th August, 1632. The following 

entries concerning his family are contained in the Register of Highgate Chapel: 

1644–5 March 5. Susanna, daughter of Sir Robert Pane baptised. Buried 20 December 

following. 

1646 July 1. William, son of Sir Robert Pane, baptised. Buried 11 July, 1646. 

1647 October 16. Mr. William, son of Sir Robert Pane and Lady Mary Pane, baptised. 

1649 August 18. Mary, daughter of Sir Robert Pane, baptised. Buried 8 April 1653 (M.I.) 

1652 June 26. Lady Mary Pane, wife of Sir Robert Paine of Highgate, buried. 

1654 May 19. Robert, son of Sir Robert Pane, buried. 

1654 August 9. Susanna, daughter of Sir Robert Pane, buried. 

1658 September 16. Sir Robert Pane, knight, buried in the vault in the yard. 

1659–60 March 1. Mrs. Susanna Payne buried in the vault. 


It will be seen that William Payne, the heir of Sir Robert, was aged 11 when his father 

died. His claim to be the lawful heir was challenged by one Robert Wayte, describing 

himself as "of Barton Stacy, gentleman," claiming that Sir Robert had married his 

mother, Patience Wayte, widow of Bartholomew Wayte, esquire, and stating that they 

had lived together as man and wife for 10 or 12 years. In the Bill of Complaint which he 

entered in Chancery (ref. 75) against Thomas Howe, esquire, on 29th June, 1660, he 

tells a most romantic story and was evidently a most unscrupulous liar. He alleged that 

Sir Robert made a will in his own hand dated 7th June, 1658, appointing him executor 

and therefore responsible for the maintenance of Sir Robert's mother, Susanna, and his 

son, William, and leaving £ 20 a year to Patience Wayte, etc., and he quoted verbatim a 

letter said to have been sent him by Sir Robert from the house of one Thoroughgood in 

Old Street, London, as follows: "Robert, I would have you send up my cows and horses 

by John Sneller as soon as you can, you had need send up the key of my house now, I 

may have my house robbed of my goods if you be not mighty careful. I would have you 

to sow what grounds you think fit. Pray Robert pay the poor men and the contribution; 

you need not write to me for money for I love you too well to wrong you, nay, I have 

found you to be true and careful in all my business, and you have let me have money at 

all times when I was at want; you have all my corn and other things at your command 

and whatsoever you do let or sell I will stand to, for I know I left you in debt when I came 

away, but let nothing trouble you therefore, if it please God to take me away before I 

come down into the country. I have laid a writing under my bed mat which you shall 

have, tied to the bed cords with a black ribbon; there is that which will give you 

satisfaction for all your love you have had of me, but I do charge you to keep this as safe 

as your life and let not your own wife know of it. I rest your dear and loving friend Robert 

Payne." 

Wayte said he received this letter on a Saturday about the middle of June, 1658, and 

sent the cows and horses on the following Monday by John Sneller. He alleged that Sir 

Robert died in August, 1658 (which is incorrect), and that before his death he sent for 

Wayte and held his hand for half an hour and wept to him and said he had done his 

mother and him much wrong, but hoped God and they would forgive him. He gave a 

detailed account of finding the will afterwards, tied with a black ribbon, etc., exactly as in 

the letter. (There is no trace of his having proved it in the Prerogative Court of 

Canterbury.) Finally he stated that Sir Robert maintained him, declared he was his son 

and employed him in the management of his Hampshire estates. 

Whatever the position of Robert Wayte, he does appear to have obtained possession of 

some at least of the Hampshire property, since Thomas Howe in his answer says he 

was endeavouring to get possession on behalf of the heir, William, and that Wayte had 

committed great waste and spoil there. Thomas Howe was the son of Thomas Howe of 

South Ockendon, Essex, esquire, and was admitted to Gray's Inn on 12th May, 1637. He 

was aged 26 in 1641. He married (22nd March, 1640–1) Sara, daughter of William 

Geere of All Hallows, Honey Lane, citizen and draper of London, and his wife's halfsister 

was Mary, the wife of Sir Robert Payne, and mother of the infant William. Thus he 

was uncle by marriage to the boy, and was appointed his guardian at the manor court 

held on 9th June, 1659, after the grandmother Susanna was dead. In his answer to 

Wayte he denied that Sir Robert Payne made a will and made the astonishing statement 

that Thoroughgood's house was in fact a prison, into which he (Sir Robert) had been 

committed for debt and "endeavoured to get out of the same with what speed he could," 

and after some months' imprisonment was permitted to go to his own house at Highgate 


hoping never to return to prison again. He pointed out that in these circumstances it is 

not probable that if he had made a will Sir Robert Payne would leave it behind him and 

never go to fetch it away, especially as he was often in London near the prison during 

the three months that elapsed between his coming out of prison and his death, which 

was about 8th or 9th September, 1658. (He was buried on 13th September.) (ref. 76) 

Howe also said that the keeper of the house "presently" (i.e. immediately) after the 

departure of Sir Robert turned out the room to air the curtain valance hangings, bedding 

and bed, and tightened the bed cord because it was loose, but no paper or writing was 

found. Sir Robert whilst in prison, and after coming out, declared his disaffection to the 

said Complainant and said he would go down to Hampshire to punish him for his "ill 

carriages and abuses to him." When his friends urged him to make his will he said it was 

time enough and he would do it hereafter. According to Mr. Howe, Sir Robert kept Wayte 

as a boy to run errands and for servile employment. 

1658–70. 

William Payne, esquire, son and heir of Sir Robert Payne. From a monumental 

inscription in Watford parish church, (ref. 77) it appears that William Payne, son of Sir 

Robert Payne, married Mary, daughter of Samuel Blackwell of Watford, and that she 

died on 27th July, 1669, aged 21. On 2nd August, 1669, he had licence to lease the 

Highgate property to his father-in-law, and in 1670 he conveyed the estate to Francis 

Blake of Highgate, esquire. It was then described as a capital messuage, etc., and two 

other messuages, etc., late in the occupation of William Payne and late of Samuel 

Blackwell, esquire, or his assigns, and formerly belonging to Thomas Gardner, esquire, 

Recorder of London, and Rebecca his wife. The Hearth Tax assessment for 1665 shows 

a house in the occupation of "Baron Turner" with 23 hearths. This was Christopher 

Turner, serjeant-at-law, son of Sir Christopher Turner of Milton Ernest, Beds., which 

gives us the name of an interim tenant, and was made third Baron of the Exchequer on 

7th July, 1660. His father was knighted nine days later. 

Ppayne1203@earthlink.net 

From Patrick, December 23, 2007 

I actually have two bits of information to share, one of which, credit should go to Steve 

Payne. He recently wrote to me in regard to my research on Capt. George Payne, who 

had been master of the ship ELIZABETH in 1637 when it was captured and pludered by 

the Spanish enroute to Virginia. Capt. Payne's business partners were his brothers-inlaw, 

Joseph and Nathaniel Hawes, Randell Mainwaring and others. Records show that 

Capt. George Payne had married Rachel Hawes (as cited in "Merchants and Revolution" 

by Robert Brenner) and that he became involved with a lawsuit initiated by his brotherin-law, 

Joseph Hawes, against John PAYNE, commander of the ship JOHN AND 

DOROTHY in 1635 (as cited in numerous High Court of the Admiralty records). Capt. 

George Payne had stepped in to bail John Payne out of that lawsuit by purchasing the 

ship for sale in order to pay the crews wages and satisfy the debt owed to Hawes. 

I have written about Capt. George Payne and his relationship to John Payne in several 

posts to the mailing lists, arguing that Capt. George Payne had been a son of Sir Robert 

Payne (d. 1631) of St. Neot's, Huntingdonshire, and that John Payne must have been a 

relative- although not a son of Sir Robert as was George. We know by the records that 

Sir Robert did not have a son by the name of John Payne, but there were John's in the 

Winteringham and Southoe branches of the family that were cousins of George. John 


likely belonged to one of those branches. 

I also made the argument that John Payne of the JOHN and DOROTHY was identical to 

the immigrant to Virginia, John Payne (ca. 1615-1689/90), who founded the family we 

know as "The Paynes of Virginia." I believe that the Admiralty records prove this to be 

the case as they state that John Payne had a servant by the name of John WITHERS. 

Then, consider that the 1622 will of Robert Payne, Citizen and Salter of London, 

specifically names two key people: his nephew, John WITHERS ("my sisters son") and 

his brother, Florentine Payne. "The History of Parliament," in the draft biographical 

sketch on Sir Robert Payne (d. 1631), maintains that this Robert Payne (d. 1622) of 

London had been a member of the Huntingdonshire Payne family. Add to that records in 

Virginia that place Florentine Payne there as a business partner of the immigrant, 

Richard Lee (I), whose wife was Anne Constable, and the connection seems clear that 

John Payne of the JOHN AND DOROTHY, with servant John WITHERS, must be the 

same as the immigrant John Payne of Virginia, whose family had been so closely 

associated with the family of Richard Lee (I), partner of Florentine Payne. 

That was a brief recap... But it leads me to Steve Payne's e-mail. Steve suggested that 

the Capt. George Payne I have been researching seemed to be the same man as a 

Colonel George Payne, who had been an officer in the Parliamentary Army during the 

2nd Civil War in England, serving under Sir Thomas Fairfax. Col. Payne had also served 

as Governor of Abingdon (which, depending on the date, lies in either Berkshire or, 

presently, Oxfordshire). Steve supplied some record evidence to support his case and, 

after a little researching, I believe he is correct. The connection hinges on the fact that 

Capt. George Payne and his brother-in-law, Nathaniel Hawes, petitioned Parliament, 

beginning in the 1640's, seeking reprisal against the Spanish for the capture of the ship 

ELIZABETH. The case drug on for years as the records show repeated attempts by 

Payne and Hawes, but the Spanish envoys to England would not appear for the case to 

be heard. It is important to note that the records up to 1655 always address the 

petitioners as "Capt. George Payne and Nathaniel Hawes." 

However, in 1655, the case was finally heard and the records state that Capt. George 

Payne and Nathaniel Hawes would be granted letters the letters of reprisal they had 

been seeking for so long. At roughly the same date, suddenly records begin to appear 

that name a Colonel George Payne and Major Nathaniel Hawes. Being the ex-navy guy 

that I am, I never made the connection, because, while knowing that Capt. George 

Payne had been a mariner (and captain was an appropriate navy title), "Colonel" and 

"Major" were Army titles- not navy. So, I assumed the records must have been referring 

to a different George Payne, who I supposed had just coincidentally been involved with a 

man by the name of Nathaniel Hawes. That turns out to have been very poor judgement! 

After investigating Steve's e-mail, I found two records in the minutes of the House of 

Commons from 1655 that clearly state that Colonel George Payne and Major Nathaniel 

Hawes had been granted letters of reprisal and, although they do not specifically say it 

was against the Spanish over the ship ELIZABETH, it is clear that it was an Admiralty 

action and that they were attempting to raise a naval force. So I do not believe there can 

be any question that Capt. George Payne and Col. George Payne were the same men. 

I still believe that George was the son of Sir Robert Payne of St. Neot's, who is known to 

have had a son by that name that was alive in 1645 when his mother, Dame Elizabeth 

(Rotheram) Payne, made her will naming him. And there is a will of George Payne, 


Gent., of London, dated 1662, that names his cousins, Robert and John Payne of 

Huntingdonshire, as his executors. I believe this to be the same George Payne. 

It is currently unknown exactly how the immigrant John Payne of Virginia fits into the 

family, but I have a strong candidate from family records and wills. It makes sense 

because this John would fall into the same branch of the Huningdonshire family that 

Robert (d. 1622) and Florentine Payne would fall into (along with the WITHERS family). 

That seems to be the most likely place for John, but the search continues. For now, all I 

can say is that the best possible evidence that we have for the ancestry of the Paynes of 

Virginia lies with the Huntingdonshire family. I am convinced that concentrated research 

on the Southoe branch of the family, particularly in regard to the Rev. Thomas Payne 

(who died after 1579) and Rev. John Payne (d. 1635), will ultimately solve the question. 

Now, on to another find that further shows the relationship between the Payne's of 

Suffolk and of Huntingdonshire. In the past, I made many posts to the mailing lists 

providing evidence for this relationship, suggesting that the two families had been 

cousins, all descending from Sir Thomas Payne and Margaret Pulteney- as suggested 

by Col. Brooke Payne in "The Paynes of Virginia" with his suggestion that Robert Payne, 

son of Sir Robert, may have settled in Huntingdonshire. Although Col. Payne did not 

provide any evidence for this other than the fact that a Robert Payne happened to 

appear in Huntingdonshire about the correct time, my research uncovered many records 

that suggest he was right. The strongest bit of evidence being the fact that the manor of 

Midloe (home of Sir Robert Payne and two generations of Robert's before him) had been 

purchased in 1590 from Sir Henry Darcy and his wife, Catherine Fermor, widow of 

Michael Pulteney of Misterton, Leicestershire- the Pulteney's of Misterton being known 

relations of the Paynes of Suffolk who descend from Sir Thomas Payne and Margaret 

Pulteney of Misterton. But there are several other links such as this one as well. I won't 

go into those again here, but will expand on them by adding another one I recently 

found. 

From "A History of the County of Bedford: Volume 3 (1912), pp. 117-122," we find in the 

chapter regarding the "Parishes of Wymington or Wimington," that "The manor of 

Wymington appears to have been considerably curtailed in the 16th and 17th centuries, 

when there is evidence of alienation of portions of the original estate to the Payne family 

and also to the Alstons. Between 1591 and 1593, according to Nichols, the Earl of Derby 

alienated certain of the demesne lands of this manor to William Payne, lord of 

Podington. (fn. 45) These reappear in 1624 as the property of his niece Sybil daughter of 

Francis Payne and wife of Sir Christopher Yelverton. (fn. 46) She left a son Henry, who 

died in 1628, aged four years, and this property, here called the Court Place, passed to 

his cousin Richard Child. No further separate mention has been found of the estate, 

which lay contiguous to Podington, in which it probably became absorbed." 

The references cite the following: 

45 Nichols, op. cit. 14. 

46 Chan. Inq. p.m. (Ser. 2), ccccvii, 104; Harl. Soc. Publ. xix, 93. 

This is supported, in the same source, for the "Parishes of Podington and Hinwick, pp. 

80-87, where it states: "George Bredyman died in 1581 seised of the site of Podington 

Manor, (fn. 16) leaving a son Edmund Bredyman, who in 1585 transferred it to Thomas 

Southwell, (fn. 17) apparently as trustee, for in the same year he conveyed the manor to 


Thomas and William Payne, (fn. 18) to whom Edmund Bredyman eventually quitclaimed 

it in 1594. (fn. 19) William Payne held it till his death in 1624, when his heir was his niece 

Sybil daughter of his brother Francis and wife of Sir Christopher Yelverton. (fn. 20) She 

died the same year, leaving a son Henry, aged ten days, (fn. 21) who only survived until 

1628, when his second cousin Richard Child (fn. 22) succeeded to the Podington estate. 

(fn. 23) Richard Child died in 1647, and Margaret, his daughter and sole heir, who had 

married George Orlebar, brought the Podington and Hinwick estates to that family. (fn. 

24) 

The references cite the following: 

16Chan. Inq. p.m. (Ser. 2), cxciv, 8. 

17Feet of F. Beds. Mich. Trin. 27 Eliz. 

18Com. Pleas. Recov. R. Trin. 27 Eliz. 

19Feet of F. Div. Co. Mich. 36 & 37 Eliz. 

20Chan. Inq. p.m. (Ser. 2), Misc. dx, 94. 

21Ibid. ccccvii, 104. 

22Harl. Soc. Publ. xix, 93. 

23Chan. Inq. p.m. (Ser. 2), cccclxviii, 92. 

24Blaydes, Gen. Bedford. 424; Lysons, Mag. Brit. i (1), 125. 

The first thing that stood out for me in this is the reference to the Alsons, to whom 

"portions of the original estate" had been alienated along with the Payne family. The 

immediate connection to the Payne's of Suffolk here is through Henry Payne, Gent., of 

Worlington, Cambridgeshire (d. bef. 13 Sept. 1639) whose wife was Ann Alston, as 

found in the Visitation of Suffolke, which states: "Henry Payne, of Worlington, gent., only 

other son, under 21 on 20 July 1614, living 2 July 1638, died before 13 Sept. 1639, 

intestate when administration of his effects was granted (Arch. Sudb.) to Thos. Bigg, of 

Dalham, Ann his widow having renounced." Thomas Bigg was Henry's brother-in-law, 

having married Henry's sister, Mary, as the record shows they were "marr. by Trinity 

Term, 1 Charles I". 

From this, we can conclude that the brothers, Thomas and William Payne, named in the 

record of Common Pleas from 1581 (when Henry was just a lad of about 12 years old), 

were Henry's father (William Payne) and uncle, Thomas Payne, who are both named in 

the "Visitation of Suffolke, made by William Hervey, Clarenceux King of Arms, 1561." 

Henry's father, William Payne, left a will dated 20 Jul 1614, describing himself as "of 

Worlington in the county of Suff. gent." His wife was Elizabeth Chenery, whom he 

married on 8 Nov. 1585 (when license was granted in Bury, Huntingdonshire by the 

Archdeacon of Sudbury). 

With that established, the new finds come through William and Thomas' brother, Francis 

Payne and his daughter, Sybil, wife of Sir Christopher Yelverton, as mentioned in the 

sources above. Francis Payne is not found in any of the traditional sources on the 

Payne's of Suffolk, such as "Paine Genealogy- Ipswich Branch," or the Visitations, etc. 

Therefore, the "Chan. Inquisiton Post Mortum (Ser. 2), ccccvii, 104; Harl. Soc. Publ. xix, 

93" and "Chan. Inquisition Post Mortum Ser. 2), Misc. dx, 94." cited in the two references 

above reveal a previously unknown son to Nicholas Payne (d. aft. 14 June 1568) and 

Ann Bowles. 


The same two primary records of the Inq. P. M. also establish that this Francis Payne 

had a daughter, Sybil, who was the wife of Sir Christopher Yelverton. 

Research on Christopher Yelverton reveals that he was the son of Sir Christopher 

Yelverton, Speaker of the House of Commons (ca. 1537-1612), of Easton Maudit, 

Northamptonshire, by his wife, Margaret Catesby, and brother of Sir Henry Yelverton 

(1566-1630). Both the father and brother have biographical sketches in "The History of 

Parliament" and several other reputable resources. 

Sybil (Payne) Yelverton's father-in-law was a close personal friend of Oliver St. John II 

(ca. 1545-1618), 3rd Baron St. John, of Standfordbury and Bletsoe, Beds, Lord- 

Leiutenant of Huntingdonshire, who was also a patron of Sir Robert Payne of St. Neot's, 

Huntingdonshire, and a 3rd cousin of Sir Robert's wife, Elizabeth (Rotheram) Payne. St. 

John assited in getting Sir Robert Payne elected to Parliament for Huntingdon. 

St. John's biographical sketch is included here: 

ST. JOHN, Oliver II(c.1545-1618), of Standfordbury and Bletsoe, Beds. 

BEDFORDSHIRE1589, 1593 

b. c.1545, 2nd s. of Oliver, 1st Baron St. John, by his 1st w. Agnes, and bro. of John II. 

m. Dorothy, da. of John Rede† of Boddington, Glos., 6s. inc. Oliver IV 7da. suc. bro. as 

3rd Baron 1596. 

J.p. Beds. from c.1584, sheriff 1585-6, 1589-90, custos rot. 1596; ld. lt. Hunts. from 

1596; recorder, Bedford by 1596; commr. trials of the Earls of Essex and Southampton 

1601.1 

Although St. John's wife brought him four Gloucestershire manors, and his father 

bequeathed him Nether Turkdean and other lands in Gloucestershire, he made his chief 

residence Stanfordbury, which he had purchased in 1564; the parish register records the 

baptism of six of his children between 1588 and 1596.2 

St. John was a friend of Peter Wentworth and brought Humphrey Winch into Parliament 

for Bedford in 1593 with the idea of introducing a bill to settle the succession, but the 

Privy Council heard of the scheme and had Wentworth put in the Tower. St. John and 

Winch were allowed to continue to attend the House, but the St. John who took part in 

the debates later in the session was Oliver St. John III. As the senior knight for 

Bedfordshire St. John could have served on the subsidy committees in both the 1589 

(11 Feb.) and 1593 (26 Feb.) Parliaments and on a legal committee, 9 Mar. 1593. In 

1597 Wentworth, when his release from the Tower was under discussion, said that St. 

John (who by now had succeeded to the family peerage), would stand surety for him, 

and find others to do the same, and that as his wife was dead he would rather live with 

St. John at Bletsoe. Among St. John's other friends was Christopher Yelverton, who 

secured his honorary admission to Gray's Inn in 1598.3 

As the Bedfordshire lord lieutenancy had, since 1585, been in the hands of Henry Grey, 

Earl of Kent, whose family had been in the county since the thirteenth century, the head 

of the St. John family was usually lord lieutenant of Huntingdonshire, in which county 

they owned some estates. St. John's tenure of the office was, in the Elizabethan period, 


poisoned by complaints from the Council about the poor quality of his levies. In 1598: 

the country shall be driven to the charge to find new armour and furniture and your 

Lordship receive that imputation we would be loath should amongst all other lieutenants 

happen unto you ... we wish amends to be made with more diligence hereafter upon the 

occasion of her Majesty's service ... and, in 1600, 

You have ... given such an example of carelessness as we have not known in any man's 

lieutenancy. After 1609 he left the administration of his estates to his eldest son Oliver 

St. John IV so 

that hereafter I may lead a quiet contemplative life, whereby I may be the better 

prepared for death when it shall please God to finish my course here on earth. He 

looked forward to enjoying ‘that blessed estate which is prepared in heaven for the elect 

children of God’. He died 2 Sept. 1618.4 

1CP, xi. 334, 336; S. Rudder, Glos. 301; PRO Index 4208; PCC 22 Tirwhite; E163/14/8. 

2PCC 22 Tirwhite; VCH Beds. iii. 258; Beds. Par. Reg. ed. Emmison, xii. 8-10. 

D'Ewes, 431, 474, 496; HMC Hatfield, vii. 286, 303. 

4CP, vii. 172; xi. 336; VCH Beds. ii. 326; APC, xxix. 47, 154; xxx. 169-70; VCH Hunts. ii. 

23; Nichols, Progresses Jas. I , i. 518, 523; ii. 203; iii. 557, 672, 984; CSP Dom. 1598- 

1601, p. 408; CSP Dom. Add. 1580-1625, pp. 448-9; 1611-18, p. 255; PCC 110 Meade; 

C142/376/126. 

Here is a brief snippet from the draft biographical sketch prepared for Sir Robert Payne 

(d. 1631) for the next edition of "The History of Parliament) prepared by Simon Healy: 

"At the 1614 election Payne paired with Sir Robert Bevill against Sir Oliver Cromwell and 

Sir Robert Cotton, who had served as knights of the shire in the previous Parliament. He 

was probably encouraged to do so by Sir Henry Darcy's son-in-law Sir Gervase Clifton, 

who may have harboured a grudge against Cromwell for denying him the senior county 

seat in 1604. The pair were probably also supported by the Lord Lieutenant, Oliver, Lord 

St. John, a 3rd cousin of Payne's wife(21), whose son (Sir) Oliver St. John I was, like 

Bevill, a trustee of Clifton's estates. Payne or his supporters managed to persuade Sir 

James Wingfield, who was related to Cotton through the Montagu family, to allow his 

tenants a free vote for the senior seat(22), thereby threatening Cromwell, who was 

forced to seek an agreement with his rivals. As a result, Bevill stood aside, allowing 

Cromwell to take the first seat without a contest. His supporters then either sided with 

Payne or abstained in the vote for the second seat, allowing the latter to defeat 

Cotton(23). Payne improved his relations with Cromwell while at Westminster, standing 

surety for a bond of 400 pounds to one of Cromwell's creditors(24)." 

The reference citations for this are: 

21. Vis. Beds. (Harl. Soc. xix), 50-1, 53-4. 

22. C142/555/83; BL, Harl. 7002, f. 308. 

23. BL, Cotton, Julius C. III, f. 115; K. Sharpe, Sir Robert Cotton, 161-2. 

24. BL, Add. ch. 33157. 


Additionally, Sybil (Payne) Yelverton's nephew, Sir Christopher Yelverton, 1st Baronet 

(d. 1654), was the father-in-law of both Robert Montagu (d. 1682/3), the 3rd Earl of 

Manchester, and of his half 1st cousin, Charles Montagu (d. 1715), 1st Earl Halifax. Both 

had married Anne Yelverton, daughter of Sir Christopher. When the Robert Montagu, 

3rd Earl of Manchester died in 1682/3, she married the Charles Montagu, 1st Earl 

Halifax (see "The Complete Peerage" entries for both peerages). 

"The Victoria Histories of the Counties of England" for Huntingdonshire, edited by 

William Page, F.S.A., vol. II, states on p. 27, "Sir Oliver CROMWELL of Hinchingbrooke 

continued to represent the county as one of its members in four of the five parliaments of 

James I (1604, 1614, 1624 and 1625). The other county member represented the 

interest of the MONTAGUS of Kimbolton for the same number of parliaments, namely in 

1604 Sir Robert COTTON, brother-in-law of Edward MONTAGU of Boughton, in 1614 

Sir Robert PAYNE, an intimate friend of the MONTAGUS, in 1624 and 1625 Edward 

MONTAGU, eldest son of Henry, Viscount MANDEVILLE of Kimbolton." 

The Paynes of Huntingdonshire leased lands in the county from the Earls of Manchester 

and these records show them to have been more than mere tenants. The records also 

show that the Paynes of Suffolk had their own connections to the Montagu family as 

well. 

Through Anne Yelverton, we not only see direct marriages with two members of the 

Montagu family with whom the Paynes of Huntingdonshire had been close with, but also 

find that her nephew (through Charles, 1st Earl of Halifax), George Montagu, who 

succeeded his uncle as Earl Halifax, married Mary Lumley, whose family purchased the 

manor of Midloe from Sir Robert Payne before his death. (see "Victoria County History- 

Huntingdonshire" for the Midloe) 

With Anne Yelverton's 1st marriage with Robert, 3rd Earl Manchester, she had been a 

stepdaughter of Margaret Russell, the Countess Carlisle (the 5th wife of her father-inlaw, 

Edward Montagu, 2nd Earl Manchester). The Countess Carlisle was granddaughter 

of Giles Bridges, the 3rd Lord Chandos (d. 1594) of Sudeley Manor, Gloucestershire, 

son of Edmund Briges, the 2nd Lord Chandos (d. 1572/3) by his wife, Dorothy Bray (d. 

1605). When the 2nd Lord Chanods died in 1572/3, his widow Dorothy married 2nd, 

William Knollys, 1st Earl Banbury, brother of Richard Knollys (d. 1596), whose motherin-law 

was a sister of Sir Christopher Yelverton- the father-in-law of Sybil (Payne) 

Yelverton. An interesting note here is that Gyles Payne of the Rodborough, 

Gloucestershire, Payne family, had been a servant of the 2nd Lord Chandos (this would 

make for another long post in itself). 

By marriage, the Paynes of Huntingdonshire were related to the St. John's, which, for 

that and apparently other reasons too, benefited the career of Sir Robert Payne of St. 

Neot's, Hunts. Sir Robert's benefactor, Oliver, Baron St. John, just happened to have 

also been a close friend of Sybil (Payne) Yelverton's father-in-law, Sir Christopher 

Yelverton. 

Fortunately, most of the names I've dropped here were prominent in the history of 

England and easily researchable. Where I have not cited properly, it can be easily 

confirmed by consulting readily available reputable sources such "The Complete 

Peerage," by G. E. Cockayne; "The History of Parliament," by the History of Parliament 

Trust, through Cambridge University Press; "The Dictionary of National Biography," or 


simply by searching through "British History Online." 

The legend (depending on which you choose) says that brothers Sir Robert , William and 

John Payne came over from England. This has been PROVEN TO BE INCORRECT. 

We should all do what we can to lay this legend to rest because all it has done is 

confuse an already difficult problem. 

Firstly, Sir Robert Payne of St. Neot's, Huntingdonshire (d. 1631), who was a subscriber 

to the London Company for Virginia in 1609 and 1612, did NOT come to America. The 

birth dates for his children prove that he was in England during this period of time- not to 

mention the several years that he was serving in Parliament for Huntingdon. If he came 

over at any time, it would have been very briefly- but there is absolutely no evidence that 

he came at all. The records suggest that he never left England in his lifetime. 

Secondly, the records also show that Sir Robert did not have any brothers. Family wills, 

including that of Sir Robert's father (d. 1603) do not mention any other children other 

than Robert. There are several others named, but no brothers or sisters of Sir Robert 

Payne. 

Thirdly, I have found no John's or William's in the family that could have been those 

named by Capt. John Smith or in the 2nd Charter of Virginia . All of the John's and 

William's in the Huntingdonshire family would have either been dead or not born yet. 

So, unless Sir Robert Payne was not the father of most of his children (who were mostly 

born between 1609 and 1612); he had some brothers that have never been discovered 

(and not mentioned in family wills); that he somehow managed to be in two places at 

once (or had an imposter representing him in Parliament, in London and in 

Huntingdsonhire while he was in Virginia); or there were some other William's or John's 

in the family that have been mistakingly called his brothers (that also have never been 

found)- then we must conclude that this legend is just plain wrong. 

As to the only other "Sir Robert Payne," of Barton Stacey, Hampshire, he was not 

knighted until 1632 and therefore could not have been the Sir Robert Payne mentioned 

by either Capt. John Smith or in the 2nd Charter- which were dated much earlier. Nor is 

there any indication that he even had brothers- let alone named William and/or John. Of 

this Sir Robert children, only one son survived- Robert, who died in 1654 and was buried 

at Highgate Chapel. Although he did have two sons named William, they both died in the 

year they were born. 

The only thing we know is that there was a Sir Robert Payne (that of St. Neots) who was 

named in the 2nd Charter as a subscriber to the London Company. But he obviously 

never came to Virginia during that time and likely never came at all. He was just an 

investor (called an Adventurer). Nothing more. There was also a William Payne named 

in the charter and, to my knowledge, he has never been identified with any certainty. 

There is speculation that he might have been William Payne (d. 1660) of Boston and 

Ipswich, Massachusetts. But this is based almost solely on the fact that he had business 

interests in Virginia. 

Patrick 


i Simon Girty was also the "villain" in the valiant Defense of Fort Henry by Barbara Ray 

Janowski, in the DAR Magazine for February, 1962 (p. 139).

DRAFT The Payne, Cave, and Johnson Families Part 1 ... - KyKinfolk

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