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AMIA BISHOP SAYS TEC WILL EXPERIENCE
LINGERING, WITHERING DEATH
VirtueOnline recently interviewed the new interim President of Trinity
School for Ministry, the Rt. Rev. John D. Rodgers.
by David W. Virtue
www.virtueonline.org
6/6/2007
VOL: You are back at TSM your old stomping ground as interim president
(for a year) following the resignation of Dr. Paul Zahl. Are you surprised at
this move?
RODGERS: We were all completely and utterly surprised. We were all
saddened. Paul and Mary have been strong supporters of TSM from its
inception. It would seem that Paul felt that he had made the contribution
that he could make and wanted to move on to where he could make his
next contribution to the sharing of the Gospel. We will greatly miss him.
VOL: What do you hope to achieve during this period?
RODGERS: Well, since I know the School somewhat, I hope to help the
board, faculty and students provide continuity and a smooth transition to
the next Dean/President. I hope that we will continue to increase in
effective teaching and learning, and in practical caring as a school
dedicated to scholarship, practical ministry, and desiring to model together
what we are receiving by God's truth and grace. I also hope we will do a
better job in relating to the alumni and in joining with them in recruiting new
students and supporters. In the present situation in the Church it will take a
team effort if we are to serve the Kingdom well.
VOL: Will you be part of a group looking to find a permanent president for
the seminary?
RODGERS: No, I will not be on the search committee. I will feel free to
suggest names to them, as I hope all of your readers will do as well.
VOL: Can you clear up the name of the seminary? IS it Trinity Episcopal
School for Ministry (TESM) or TSM - Trinity School for Ministry? There is

some confusion in my mind and those of my readers? I have heard and
seen it read that it is now Trinity Anglican School for Ministry. Some
clarification would be helpful.
RODGERS: I am not as clear as I might be on this. "Trinity School for
Ministry" is the public name and appears on the publications and
stationery. This name makes it clear that Trinity is not funded by the
Episcopal Church and is open to educate godly, biblical, qualified persons,
male and female, for ministry, lay and ordained, from all Anglican groups,
including those who sense a call to remain in TEC, as well as all
ecumenical groups.
"Trinity Episcopal School for Ministry" remains the legal name and will most
probably be changed when the institutional scene in the Church comes to
some settled state. It takes a good bit of work and expense to change all of
the legal documents. Better to wait until the final name is certain and do it
then.
VOL: You have been in the forefront of the battle in the Episcopal Church
for over 40 years; do you have a sense that we are reaching the end of the
road here in the U.S.?
RODGERS: I sense that we are approaching a decision point. What is now
apparent is that the crisis is not only in TEC but in the Anglican Communion
itself. The Western Provinces and the provinces that they have deeply
influenced are as compromised as TEC. I suspect that the issue over
attendance at Lambeth 2008 may be that point. However I have thought
that we were about to face the facts in the past and been disappointed.
Perhaps the fact that TEC is so clearly unrepentant and the continuing loss
of members in Churches where the biblical Faith is truncated or
contradicted may help both us and the Global South take the needed
action.
VOL: You, along with the Anglican Mission in America bishops have not
been invited to Lambeth 2008. Are you disappointed? Was this expected?
RODGERS: I never expected to be invited because I am somewhat retired
so there was no personal disappointment. I did not expect CANA or AMIA
or TEC to be invited. That all of the TEC bishops were invited, given their
unrepentance, is amazing and makes the clear point that we can expect no

discipline from the Archbishop of Canterbury. I actually think that this is an
unintended helpful action, for it makes the need for bold action by the
orthodox utterly clear.
VOL: Lambeth 2008. Did you think you would be invited?
RODGERS: No.
VOL: Will you personally write to Dr. Williams and ask for an explanation?
RODGERS: No. I am very happy with the AMIA response and the warnings
of Nigeria, Uganda and I suspect I will be happy with the statement from
the House of Bishops of Rwanda.
VOL: Do you think that your Archbishop Emmanuel Kolini will go to bat for
you and Bishop Murphy and the other AMIA bishops to get you that invite?
RODGERS: I would prefer that all of the Global South Bishops not attend,
inviting all of the orthodox Provinces to join them in another location at the
same time. I would like to be invited to attend that gathering of Bishops
which would be taking counsel in the light of the Word of God written.
VOL: It has just been announced that Nigerian Primate Peter Akinola will
probably not attend Lambeth 2008 with his 122 bishops and archbishops
because Bishop Martyn Minns did not get an invitation. Do you think Apb.
Kolini might take the same stance with AMIA bishops?
RODGERS: The logic of Archbishop Akinola makes sense to me. I suspect
that the Global South will act together. I hope so. By the same logic TEC
should not attend since Bishop Robinson was not invited. I wonder if they
will be that consistent or show that much "integrity".
VOL: You recently authored the SPREAD document that accused
Archbishop Rowan Williams of being complicit in the gay agenda for years
preceding his rise to the top post in the Anglican Communion. You also
said he has basically not changed his views even as the Archbishop of
Canterbury. Did you ever hear back from him with regard to those
accusations? Did anyone in his office contact you about the charges?
RODGERS: I have been part of a team working on all sorts of petitions and

supplements as well as those coming from SPREAD and we have always
triple checked our facts. Not once has anyone claimed that we have erred
in our facts. In this particular case no one has responded to the document
criticizing its facts or interpretations.
VOL: Do you see an imminent collapse of the Episcopal Church?
RODGERS: No, I see a lingering death. It will take some time.
VOL: Will it wither and die rather than totally collapse like the Soviet Union
did?
RODGERS: I believe it will be withering rather than sudden collapse.
VOL: Do you see the TEC being thrown out or ostracized by the wider
Anglican Communion?
RODGERS: I think a major division of the Anglican Communion is more
likely.
VOL: Do you see eventual schism in the whole Anglican Communion with
evangelicals in Africa and the West simply saying 'we have had enough'
and going their own way, with TEC announcing that it has 15 countries
lined up that will be their communion.
RODGERS: Yes, that seems most likely to me in the not so long run.
VOL: Do you see any good resolution to the property issues confronting
orthodox rectors trying to get free of revisionist TEC bishops?
RODGERS: Were the Anglican Communion to hold together and were the
Communion to declare that TEC has violated its own Constitution and its
standing in the Communion, then there might be a legal way that the
orthodox might keep their buildings. But that does not seem likely. In those
States where personal property principles are used, and not the
ecclesiastical hierarchy principle, the orthodox have had some success. On
the whole it looks dim for the orthodox to me. Better to have the blessing
than the building, if one has to choose.
VOL: Will you ever really retire?

RODGERS: Yes, on one level. I told the Board I would serve as Interim
Dean/President for 1 year. I meant that. On another level, I believe I have
read some where we are all destined to "go from strength to strength in a
life of perfect service" and that doesn't sound like just golf or tennis to me.
There are the great feasts and worship services predicted so it must not be
all work and no play.
VOL: Thanks John.
RODGERS: Thank you, David, for asking.
--- The Rt. Rev. John D. Rodgers is Dean Emeritus of Trinity Episcopal
School for Ministry in Ambridge, a former Episcopal priest,and is now a
bishop in the Anglican Mission in America.