Rubitsky, David _OH 406_.pdf - Wisconsin Veterans Museum

Wisconsin Veterans Museum
Research Center
Transcript of an
Oral History Interview with
DAVID RUBITSKY
Communications Officer, Army, World War II.
1999
OH
406

OH
406
Rubitsky, David S., (1917- ). Oral History Interview, 1999.
User Copy: 2 sound cassettes (ca. 110 min.), analog, 1 7/8 ips, mono.
Master Copy: 2 sound cassettes (ca. 110 min.), analog, 1 7/8 ips, mono.
Transcript: 0.1 linear ft. (1 folder).
Military Papers: 0.1 linear ft. (1 folder).
Abstract:
David Rubitsky, an Edgerton, Wisconsin native and a Milton veteran, discusses his
World War II service in the Pacific Theater with Headquarters Company of the 2 nd
Battalion, 128 th Infantry Regiment, 32 nd Infantry Division. Rubitsky talks about his
Jewish parents’ immigration from Russia, growing up in poverty, and joining the
National Guard in 1930, at age fifteen, so his mother would have money for food. He
mentions the Division was sent to Camp Beauregard and Camp Livingston (Louisiana)
for training and talks about travelling to Australia by ship. Rubitsky discusses training in
Australia, having the division reorganized into a triangle division, and getting airlifted
into Port Moresby (Papua New Guinea). He comments on the first casualties from his
division: Gerald Cable, for whom Camp Cable (Australia) was named, and four men he
knew in New Guinea who drowned in the Goldie River. As a communications officer,
Rubitsky tells of seeing three of his men flee from combat on the Kokoda Trail.
Throughout the interview, he shares derogatory comments he heard directed towards him
about Jews in the service. He talks about being flown to Dobodura with twenty men,
including his own brother, to clear an airfield with machetes before getting orders to
move down the Ango Trail. Rubitsky details having recurring problems with malaria and
diarrhea, and he states that, without supplies from the New Guinea natives, he would
have starved. He portrays combat in “the Triangle,” an area around Buna village: being
sent to lay communication wire to an abandoned American machine gun bunker and
spending the night in a tree near a Japanese-controlled part of the jungle. After running
across a big wounded soldier, he relates being unable to carry him and their conversation
before Rubitsky had to leave him there. He characterizes Colonel Herbert “Seabiscuits”
A. Smith, details several interactions with him, and reflects that Smith was afraid to
promote him because he was Jewish. He offers a brief critique of Smith but states he was
“the best combat officer I ever ran into.” Rubitsky talks about meeting up with a
reconnaissance unit, spending the night on a muddy hill, getting charged by thousands of
Japanese, firing artillery point-blank into their ranks, and throwing grenades into enemy
machine gun nests. He touches on being labeled a murderer by newspapers, portrays
some of the soldiers he fought with who were killed, and recalls seeing thousands of
Japanese corpses from the Battle of Midway washing ashore. He recalls one soldier’s
giving a candy bar to a native boy, who betrayed the soldier’s position to the Japanese,
who then killed both the boy and the soldier. Rubitsky touches on combat at Leyte. Sent
to Luzon, he describes having green replacements added to his unit, travelling up a
mountain called “Hill 525”, and watching thousands of surrounded Japanese soldiers
commit suicide by jumping off the neighboring mountain. He comments on blowing up a
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idge next to a school and having to help “mop up” 20,000 Japanese soldiers. Rubitsky
recalls risking his life to fetch a watermelon from a field under fire. Rubitsky portrays a
cave the Japanese had refined into staterooms and tells of the Japanese men and women
who were killed when he blew up mountain guns on a balcony there. He states that after
the war, he never talked about his experiences, and he touches on being persecuted in the
United States. He talks about being recommended for a Medal of Honor, not receiving it
because of higher-ups who were anti-Semitic, and efforts years later to pursue it.
Rubitsky tells of finding a chunk of gold in the jungle but having it stolen in Brisbane
(Australia). He states he cried when he heard the war had ended and he wouldn’t have to
go to Okinawa. With enough points to go home, he tells how the company clerk held
him back for weeks, and he reflects on the Manila Massacre. Rubitsky mentions turning
down offers to work for the Israeli Army. He talks about his homecoming, discovering
his mother had had a stroke after hearing a rumor that her sons had been killed in the war,
and having difficulty dealing with his post-traumatic stress disorder. Rubitsky speaks of
working for over thirty years in the Merchant Marine, using a pseudonym to avoid anti-
Semitism, and blocking off memories of the war. After eventually meeting his wife,
Katherine, he explains how she helped him through mental and physical health issues.
He mentions not being allowed to graduate from aviation mechanic school because he
was Jewish, forgiving men for their prejudice, and making life difficult for a commander
who kept assigning him unpleasant tasks. Rubitsky states he is a permanent member of
several veterans’ organizations. At Buna, he describes finding a raped civilian girl and
avenging her. He mentions seeing a few USO shows in New Guinea. Rubitsky talks
about collecting affidavits from officers for the Medal of Honor, struggling to get help
from Senator Feingold, and the harassment he faced after the media picked up his story.
Interviewed by Scott Cross, 1999
Transcribed by Joshua Goldstein, 2011
Checked and corrected by Channing Welch, 2012
Corrections typed in by Amy Stankivitz, 2012
Abstract written by Susan Krueger, 2012
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Interview Transcript:
Scott: It’s February 8th, 1999. I am with Mr. David Rubitsky, veteran of the
128th Infantry Regiment, 32nd Division and a veteran of World War II.
Mr. Rubitsky, go ahead—
David: You forgot to put 128th, 2nd Battalion because that takes in the whole
regiment.
Scott: All right, 2nd Battalion. What company were you with?
David: I was with Headquarters.
Scott: Headquarters Company? All right. Let’s start from the beginning. Can you
tell me where you where born?
David: I was born in Edgerton, Wisconsin.
Scott: What year was that?
David: 1917.
Scott: Where you raised in Edgerton then?
David: Yes, I was.
Scott: Can you tell me a little bit about your ethnic background?
David: Well, the reason we ended there, his brother-in-law owned a tanning
factory, hides, so my dad came over from Russia. He didn’t speak no
English or anything, and my uncle lived in, I think it was, Madison or
Milwaukee, I’m not quite sure. Its many years ago, but he sent my dad,
give him a job to buy hides as a substation. It wasn’t too long before he
died. Well, there was four or five kids already, and we had no money so
we lived in that broken down old house. No windows, no toilet, toilet
outside. We had nothing. We couldn’t move, and the food that we got—
my brother Harry, who is deceased, was with me. We’d go to the dump
and wait for the dump truck, and the old food they was throwin’ away,
even from restaurants, with a bite or two, we would take that home to my
ma. There wasn’t nothing to eat. But I’m getting a little ahead of my story.
I realized when I was about in the third grade that the Jews don’t believe
in the Lord that I do. It was Christmas time, everybody got a present, and I
asked a teacher where was mine. She says to me, “You are Jewish, and
you do not celebrate our holidays.” But being a little boy, it shook me, and
I says, “I can’t understand it.” Well, she made me stand up, marched me
out in the hallway and told me to go home. I went home. I crossed the
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ailroad tracks on the other side of the rail tracks. We had a broken down
old house, but it was home, and I asked my ma about it. She tried to
explain it the best way she could. There sat three of my brothers, we had
one cracker. So my oldest brother gave each one of us a fourth of that
cracker. We didn’t have a damn thing to eat. I’d go to school with nothing
in my belly. In those days everybody had to bring in a nickel or a penny
for the month everyday to help keep the cost down, and I never had any
money, and there was a person that would always slipped me a nickel or a
penny. Otherwise I wouldn’t have the milk. That was compulsory to drink
milk in those days in school. Whether you did it or not which was good,
but in those days they didn’t know how much calories were in plain milk
[both laugh]. I know the difference. And then it was amazing—
inconceivable that there was a rat there—this you got to hear. At the
dump, he was an old buck. He would dart in and out of the dump, and he’d
snatch a little bit, and I had a club. I fought that damn rat for at least three
years. I named him “Mr. Edgerton” [Scott laughs]. And he got to know
me, that damn rat got to know me. He’d get braver and braver, and pretty
soon he ignored me and made me all the madder. So I ignored him. So he
ate his little share, and I took my little share, and that’s how we finally
became friends [Scott laughs].
Scott: Did things start getting better for you in the ‘30s?
David: Never, never.
Scott: No. What prompted you to enlist in the Army?
David: Nothing to eat, to help my mother with allotment check.
Scott: Did you join the National Guard before the war started?
David: I was in the National Guard years ago. I was about fourteen or fifteen
years old then.
Scott: Where did you do your training at when you were in the National Guard?
David: The National Guard, you trained once a week. We had what you’d call—
what was that place, Katherine? Upstairs where Schmeling owned? The
dance hall, in other words, that’s where we trained. Once in awhile when it
was warm we’d sometimes go out and string wire and climb the telephone
poles and trees to put up wire. That was our training.
Katherine: You did [?] get paid for that, remember?
David: What?
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Katherine: You got paid for that—for going to the National Guard, didn’t you?
David: I got paid for it?
Katherine: Yeah.
David: How?
Katherine: So much a week or something or a month.
David: Oh yes, when you are in the National Guard—oh, I misunderstood—when
you are in the National Guard you get four dollars a month. And my
money, I would borrow a dollar and take the dollar home and give it to my
ma ‘cause she could buy hamburger for fifteen cents a pound. Potatoes, a
big bag of potatoes, about twenty cents. I’d keep a nickel so I could buy an
ice cream cone.
Scott: Do you remember what year it was that you joined—
David: Well, I’ll go back. Let’s see, I was—
Scott: About 1932? If you were fifteen—
David: It would be 1930.
Scott: About 1930?
David: I can remember seen’ my sister coming home from school that she
graduated. And she graduated—she had no clothes, she graduated with a
gunnysack, and this lady put flowers on it, like a fleur on it. It looked
beautiful. But it was a gunnysack.
Scott: Now in 1940, the 32nd Division moved down to Camp Beauregard
[Louisiana].
David: That’s right.
Scott: Did you go down with them for that?
David: Yup that’s right. Also we went to Camp Livingston [Louisiana], from
Beauregard to Livingston. Right, and then we trained there, but finally we
got orders to go up north. MacArthur wanted us because the Japanese
were on the Kokoda Trail [Papua, New Guinea], and they were only about
thirty miles away from Port Moresby.
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Scott: Can you tell me a little more about your trip? Now, weren’t you guys sent
out by railroad out east?
David: Well, from Massachusetts, we were there, the 1st Infantry, we were
supposed to replace the 1 st Infantry and follow them up overseas. But they
get a call at Fort Devens to send the troops back to Fort Ord [California].
MacArthur asked for us, and it was very shortly a day or two we were on
our way to Australia.
Scott: Can you tell me a little bit about your trip out to Australia by boat? I know
you were on ship for quite awhile.
David: Me, like a fool, ate hot dogs [Scott laughs], and as we got a little rougher
in the water I realized everybody else was sick. There was another fellow,
he ate hot dogs. He leaned over the rail which I was, and they would come
out of him, whole wieners. He was a great big guy. Four, five wieners
come right out of his mouth, and did it ever make me sicker! That lasted
about two days.
Scott: Did you go through anymore training once you arrived in Australia?
David: Yes, we’d go out on hikes, marches, string wire. We would check our
guns for any flaws, kept them clean. In a month’s time you haven’t got too
much time to do—we did go up into the mountains which was a good
experience. I thank—he’s not here today, General Major Herbert A.
Smith, who we called “Seabiscuits” because he could walk and out walk
any man in the battalion or in the regiment. Well, then after we got to
Australia we went up from Adelaide up to Brisbane, Camp Cable. One of
our first men to be killed—that camp was named after him, Cable, by a
boat. Nice guy, I met him.
Scott: Was that a large boat he was on?
David: I didn’t see the boat.
Scott: Okay.
David: I didn’t see the boat. I didn’t see the ship I should say.
Scott: I remember seeing that the camp was named in his honor—
David: Yes.
Scott: Because he was the first man—
David: Yes, he was.
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Scott: From the 32 nd Division who was killed, and I was wondering if there were
other men on that boat that went—
David: Not that I know of. There might have been—see, these Merchant Marine
ships they have their own crew, but he went along with equipment.
Scott: I see. Do you feel that your training that you received prepared you for
what you were going to experience in New Guinea?
David: Yes, it did because I got it right here, I can show you. What’d I do with it?
I have pictures of me. Well, let me look in these—see, “Jewish friend [?],
please take me to the woods.” Well, we’ll go on. I got pictures in the other
room then.
Scott: Okay.
David: That’s my training with H Company in Australia on the .50s and the heavy
.30s, “Water Cooler” and also trained with light machine gun.
Scott: Now, were you air lifted in?
David: Yes, I was.
Scott: Did you jump or?
David: No.
Scott: No. I know that is one of the things that the 32 nd Division, it is part of their
claim to fame—
David: Right, right.
Scott: That they were the first American troops to be air lifted into a combat
zone.
David: We went to Port Moresby. And then we went up along the Goldie River.
This is the 2 nd Battalion 128. ‘Cause it was a square division. They broke
it into a triangle division. But first before we went up north, they picked
six enlisted men out of our battalion. Six of ‘em. My name was on the list.
I had a bandleader for a captain at the time after they broke up the
division, eliminated to a triangle. That’s three regiments. And the captain
took over the headquarters. That’s the reason my brother and I ended at.
And he had no training at all, and when we got ready to go up north he
was gone. That’s when Captain Stehling took over.
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Scott: The Headquarters Company?
David: Yes. Then we went up north into Papau New Guinea, which has their
freedom now. They sent us up the Kokoda Trail. We got about I’d say a
mile and a half away or maybe shorter than that on the Goldie River. We
parked right along side of that. We lost four men who got on a raft. Well,
whoever put them on that raft, I’ll never understand it. That river is swift,
and I knew all four. They were from H Company; first ones to causality
besides Cable. Well, then we got orders to pull out of there. Before we did
that there was three men in their own bunker. You have to dig up your
own foxhole, which they were. And the Japs did come across the river,
and I spotted one. I’m sure I got him. I’m not positive, but I saw blood
later. But these three, I’m alone, on the switchboard, no protection. You
don’t have any protection when you are in communication. They left their
outpost without orders. They run right by me. I can just see it. One of them
became my worst nightmare on my back because he knew that I knew
what he did. Actually, he should have been court-martialed, but time of
war, and I’m glad he wasn’t. Anyhow, I decided that I’m gonna find out
where I stand with the battalion commander. So I go over to his pup tent.
He knew of me. He says, “Sit down.” I thanked him for knowing part of
me, and also I thanked him for seeing me. Which a Lt. Colonel you have
to have permission. But I knew I would never get permission to see him.
And then we had—this Lt. Moore was the head of communication. And I
said to Smith, “General Smith, I had three men take off. I am not going to
give you their name, nothing like that, but I don’t want them saying that
the Jew ran.” He said, “I’ll take care of that.” And I asked him who was
my communication officer. He says, “Moore, Lieutenant Moore.” I don’t
know how he ever got his stripes, but he did. He was always behind the
lines, but a good fellow.
Scott: Did you have any of the officers that you trained with originally by the
time you got over there?
David: We trained with platoon sergeants. They would set up a field out in
Australia, and we’d go over there and train on the .30, the light sub
Thompson machine guns, hand grenades, everything you could think of.
But after we got up north—see, the Japanese were at Kokoda Trail. Why
they stopped there I don’t know; it was their supply line. If you ever get a
chance read the book Japan at War, page 267. Be sure you read it. It is
done by Mr. Theodore Cook. He married a Japanese woman. He’s
somewhere out west. I had his address and that. They wanted the pictures,
too, but I wouldn’t give them to ‘em. He couldn’t talk to any soldier that
was alive. He couldn’t talk to ‘em because they would not run the emperor
down. So it was not until 1989 when the emperor died he got a chance to
speak to some of the Japanese soldiers that were in New Guinea, which
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was very few left. Then in 1989 is when the Japanese signed the Geneva
Convention. You know what that is, don’t ya?
Scott: Yes, mm hmm.
David: But until then they didn’t belong to it. Atrocities was nothing’ to the
Japanese soldier. Well, after we got orders, twenty of us, including my
brother, myself, and eighteen other guys, got in one of these old cargo
ships and flew over the mountains to a place called Dobodura. The first
airstrip was made with machetes. We worked about three hours to clear a
field, which we did a good job, I think, just with machetes. It was hot. We
had some natives which I am very happy that we had them. We had some
natives that helped. They were looking for food, so they always carry
machetes, chop your head off. So when the planes started coming in all
our battalion was there. General Harding, Major General Harding got
orders to move us up the Ango Trail which we did. We got a little ways
there, and it was hot and swampy on both sides. That’s living hell before
you die.
Scott: Did you have any problems with malaria?
David: I had it all the time. I couldn’t take the pills. I cut a hole in my pants so I
could just let it go. No toilet paper; nothing. But getting back—after we
got up there, we spotted a—Hall was the name, Sgt. Hall spotted a
machine gun. He opened up fire on these Japanese. Then now I knew we
were gonna be in combat. We knew where they were. If you read the book
they had one of the best defense.
Scott: Yeah, it sounded like it they had a very good defense—
David: It was hard.
Scott: And almost impossible to approach.
David: It was. Then we got orders. We flew over to that airport. Then our whole
battalion was together. We went up the Ango Trail, and we got about, oh,
fifty feet from it. So the Japs knew we were there; they’re not dumb. They
had been there over a couple of years. Then Lt. Colonel Smith sent E
Company and G Company—it would be east of the Triangle [designation
of the area spanning Buna Village and Buna Government Station]. But
before that happened—I think it was the 21 st of November, 1942. He sent
our troops, in E & G. I think there was some of H Company was down
there. And Smith was below the Triangle. It was his command post. These
men went in there in a swamp—see, it’s only about two and a half feet
above sea level. And then tide comes—it comes in about nearly a mile.
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Scott: Really?
There is nothing to stop it but these big trees that’ll stop it. This is what
you have, and as tall as you are it’d go up to your head.
David: They had the crocs—the huge snake, I can’t think of his name that
swallowed a whole pig. What is that name of that—
Katherine: Anaconda.
Scott: Oh, the anaconda.
David: So, the rats multiply like bees. So how they would live—I’m getting to the
story. I’m giving you the worst part of it. They went in. It was a lieutenant
and two enlisted men who were sergeants and part of our pioneer group.
They went out and carried the ammunition into this bunker. That’s how
that ammunition got there, and our machine guns were on a plank. The
BAR was on a plank, the rifle was on a plank. I had my own pistol and
about thirty-five to forty hand grenades. But before we left Goldie River, I
went to Lieutenant Moore and told him what happened. What is the word?
The word he used, “Jews are—”
Katherine: Dispensable.
Scott: Jews are dispensable?
David: Yup, and I said to him, “That might be true, but I’m not over there fighting
Hitler. I’m fighting the Japanese. And if you ever say that again one of us
is not going home. I came here to protect our country. I didn’t come here
to listen what you had to say.” He turned out to be an average soldier. I’ll
give him that credit. He was smart. You can be smart and be an average
soldier, but when it comes to that bullet over your head, any minute you
may be gone. I had no platoon. I had nothing; they took everything away.
“The Jew doesn’t fight; he stays home and makes money.” This is what
I’d hear. And the reason that Colonel Smith—there’s two Colonel Smiths
ya know?
Scott: Yeah, it gets a little confusing sometimes.
David: Colonel Herbert A. Smith this was.
Scott: All right.
David: He was a Major at that time before he got promoted. Major Herbert N.
Smith, he had all his battalion west of the Triangle. We never did take the
triangle; they evacuated it, west of the Triangle. And when our troops
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went east of the triangle they went into that swamp. It was impossible to
use your gun. Maybe get off a couple of rounds because the mud. And the
Japs were there. So they pulled back—what was left—they pulled back
without orders. They had no orders. Smith tried to get ahold of the
division, General Smith so we get this straight. I think it was hours before
that he sent that he could not—his troops cannot even put wire in there or
could not attack the enemy on his viewpoint, which he was right. But he
didn’t give the order. They passed up the line all at once, E and G
company single file, pulled out of there. That would be the 20 th , 21,
something like that day. I think it was the 21 st . Well, anyhow they pulled
out of there without his orders, and he tried to figure out who gave the
orders. He wanted to commit all troops, his battalion, west of the triangle.
But he was smart enough, and he was smart and a fine gentleman, but I
didn’t realize in my mind I forgave him that he didn’t like Jews. I didn’t
know that, that he let it be known. But when we got pushed out of there,
by that time by that time Major General Harding came up there. And he
talked to Battalion Commander Herbert A. Smith that if he wanted to
commit his troops and would attack in full force with the 126th 2 nd
Battalion. Which our forces were committed, and he gave General M.
Smith orders to guard the southern part of the triangle but not in the
triangle so the Japanese couldn’t come around. So he had part of E and
parts of G. So you have an idea.
Scott: So here’s the triangle—
David: So they were coming this way, north to south. The Government Gardens,
there was troops. They were going west, circlin’ around. There was
another column came around from north. Around this way they cut the
trail off. But they would stop right here, and there was a little plateau
which has kunai grass on it. Thank the lord it was there. When this all
happened, how that fight started, he wanted to send E Company back into
the swamp. Well, I’m going ahead of my story. The way Smith knew that
in Singapore the Japanese came through the jungles. They were fighters.
Their guns were cemented in, facing the sea, sawed off [?] Singapore. But
he wasn’t about to have it, but he got strict orders, “Nobody out there.” He
knew we needed an outpost. That’s how the men came out there, and how
it happened that I was sent out there because I was in communication. I
thought I was, [Scott laughs], and you never know. So he said, “Dave, I
can rely on you. I want you to go out there, find out what happened. And
I’ll send Stehling with ya.” I thought to myself, “He’s a good man, but—”
Scott: This is your captain?
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David: Yup. So I was ahead of him. He finally arrived at the bunker. I won’t
mention the officer because he is deceased. All he said, “Kike, you see
what’s coming?” I could see ’em. He said, “You better get the hell out of
here with us.” I says, “No way.” I knew, and the Japs knew—this
happened—I give [Col.] Mott credit, he reported, “The Japs are smart.”
He reported to Division that a large body of Japanese troops—what
Yamamoto did was he sent a few, like a platoon into where 126 [126 th
Infantry].
Scott: Which is west of the Triangle?
David: yeah, right here, 126.
Scott: Around the Girau River?
David: Yup.126, that’s their headquarters.
Scott: Okay.
David: No, no, they were right here.
Scott: All right.
David: That was F Company that cut that little town off. And they sent them up,
and we went—some of ‘em went into Kokoda, but we didn’t take it right
then. So he disobeyed an order, but if he wouldn’t have disobeyed that
order there’d be two battalions who were dead. What I’m gettin’ at—again
I get ahead of my story because that’s the Jews for ya. Boom, boom,
boom, boom. Anyhow, they knew our barges were sunk. We had no
supplies. Thank the natives for helping us. I appreciate that more than
anything in the world. I wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for the natives. So
the Japs have their outlook. They have their spies, and they knew what
happened. And Colonel Yamamoto thought this was his chance. I can see
his point. If they’d got around me there wouldn’t have been much left.
Then as I got—they were going to dismantle the machine gun. I says,
“Leave it there. I’ll take it.” One of the sergeants turned around. He said,
“What do you want to be? A hero, Jew?” I looked at him. I said “You ever
call me a Jew again—you call me in front of anybody. You ever make that
word to me again you ain’t going home. If I don’t get you, my brother
will. And if he don’t get you I got two other brothers, they’ll get you.” I
became real good friends with him after that. Imagine that. So I went out
there, and the troops were gone. There was nothing out there. And I strung
this tiny thin wire on the reel. All Smith had was a telephone, and I would
hook him into the wires, and I called him, and I got a hold of him. I said
“There is nothing here.” And he says to me, “Get the hell out of there,
Dave. Come on back. I need you.” I thought to myself I need you, too, but
12

I don’t need you in this scrap [?]. So I thought I could go back, but I
realized I was too far up into the swamp. And the Japs—I couldn’t go east
from Government Gardens, no going west to Government Gardens, west
of the Triangle I knew that was out. I knew that I couldn’t go east. You
follow me now?
Scott: Can you show me where the bunker was on this map?
David: The bunker is right where I got that arrow.
Scott: Right there. Okay, I see.
David: So I didn’t know what to do. I knew I couldn’t go back because that wire
was cut. I know the difference between cutting a wire and something just
stopping. I know the difference, but here I was by myself. It would have
been, I think, the 23rd of November. 24, 25, 26—yeah, I think that was
23rd of November 1942. All I took with me was my .45 and one hand
grenade to kill me if they tried to capture me. So I started from where the
bunker was. I knew that was a Japanese bunker. I could go no more than
forty feet, that’s how thick it was. And I’m drowning, ya know, even my
big nose couldn’t help me. So I’m holding onto these branches, mango
trees. I got about thirty, forty feet. That sun was so hot, and that canteen I
didn’t have any chlorine, but I would drink that water anyhow. What else
could I do? I thought I’d be going back. So I climbed up in a tree that
night. It get’s dark real quick in the jungle, and then it rains like hell. In
the early in the morning, just about a quarter to five when it starts to get
light, I climbed down the tree. I said to myself, “I’m not going to die like
this in a swamp.” And I was afraid. If anybody tells you they’re not, come
tell me. So what did I do? I got about thirty feet, and I hear somebody
screaming. It didn’t sound like a Japanese. This plateau—I’ll show ya—
was about in here somewhere between the Government Gardens and the
Triangle. It would be easier for me to show you.
Scott: Yes, I get the idea.
David: So I came up—I left the bunker here, and I got about there. I knew the
Japs controlled Government Gardens and the Triangle. And I hear—get
back there, and I look on this little plateau. That had whatcha call—this is
the truth. The officers will never tell you, nothing against ya.
Scott: I understand.
David: I hold no animosity towards anyone.
[End of Tape 1, Side A]
13

David: —platoon. [Gen.] Eichelberger said he would give him a commission if
he’d go down there and find out. But they took this piece of land.
[Knocking sound] What the—
Scott: Is this Sergeant Bottcher?
David: Yes, but he got to be an officer.
Scott: All right.
David: But while he was doing that Smith and his platoon including me—there’s
a picture of it. We were heading for Buna Mission where he was. We were
firing at ‘em like mad ‘cause we just—I don’t know how many we killed.
It was just dozens and dozens of ‘em. So Bottcher never knew we were
behind him. That gave him a break. If we wouldn’t have been there
there’d been no Bottcher. Because they out numbered him, they sacrificed
their life because he only had about fourteen men. That would be the end
of him real quick. He fought in the Spanish War way back when Spain
was asking for freedom.
Scott: Oh, during the Spanish Civil War?
David: Right. He fought for—and he didn’t want to go to war again. He thought it
was foolish. But he knew the only way he could get citizenship—because
he was a military man he was fighting. They had some law in the United
States about that, but all the governments [unintelligible] don’t live up to
the Geneva Convention or anything. So what happened, before we crossed
I can just see—I’m getting ahead of my story again—Combs got shot in
the belly by the Drinador [probably Driniumor River]. He was a big guy.
He must have weighed 240-250, and he played football. He never told me
where he played, but I saw a little medal, and it says that he was the
captain of a football team in his barracks. As I was going back, I was the
tail man with Smith down at Drinador [probably Driniumor River] and I
hear somebody moaning. I quick made sure it wasn’t a Jap, and there I see
Combs laying there. I says, “Combs, what are you doing here?” He says,
“I can’t move my legs hardly at all. I’m shot in the belly.” I knew I
couldn’t’ carry him. I was alone. The guys were way up ahead. It wouldn’t
have done any good because it was at least two to three miles away from
the main line to camp. He begged me to—that was hard, he begged me to
take him. He was a farm boy—I wanted—he’s already earned the DSC
[Distinguished Service Cross]. And I said to him, “I don’t know how the
hell I can carry you.” And I was so weak, but, “I will go come back to get
you.” I thought of that Cap—Edwards, who was with Eichelberger.
Scott: Captain Edwards?
14

David: A liar! What a liar. And I said, “Where’s your gun?” He says, “What
gun?” I said, “Your gun.” He says, “The Japs must have got it.” Well, he’s
helpless so he threw his rifle away. So the Japs—if a guy drops his gun
they wouldn’t come lookin’ for him. He was in the shrubbery like rabbits
hiding and using thorns hiding in there. And he said, “Would you leave
me your gun?” That’s like helping somebody to their death. I says, “I can’t
do that. I don’t want to think that I gave you a gun to kill yourself.”
There’s always a chance. I knew what would hit him was the pom-pom
gun. It was like a .50 shrapnel. His spine was severed. I didn’t realize he
had hand grenades on him. I bid him good-bye. I said, “I hope I see you in
the next world.” He said, “I hope we don’t see one another doing the
things we had to do.” He had a little humor to him, and he died there. It
was loss of blood—so much. Well, we’ll get back to Bottcher. As we was
going up the trail Smith did all this reconnaissance. Took me—and every
time I’d say to him, “What in the hell are you taking me for? I ain’t mad at
nobody. I just want to get on a ship and go home. I want to drink a Coke.
I’d like to eat a sandwich.” He said, “Well, we’re here.” I says, “Yeah,
we’re here alright.” [Both laugh] So we stopped, Bottcher was with the
reconnaissance then of the 32 nd Division. That was his job. He was a good
soldier, and they gave him a commission. The reason Smith didn’t get
promoted over there it’s because he went up and told the big shots that,
“You’re getting men killed for nothing. I know this war; you are fighting
the First World War.” That went back to Eisenhower, no promotion until
he got home [laughs]. I said, “You dummy, you. What good did you gain
out of that?” So I said, “You dummy, you, you could have been a colonel,
probably get the hell out of there.” Well, when—before we left they had
the machine gun, they got a big one. You could press a button, and the
whole gun, the sides flop open like that. It takes you about a minute you
can clean that machine gun. The Japanese as far advanced as they were
was instead of firing 250 like ours they would fire 1,000 bullets a minute.
So Smith says, “How you going to get them out of there, Dave?” I says,
“How am I going to get them out of there? What about you?” He said,
“I’m tough.” Before I—I gotta tell you one about Bottcher. He had two
little eggs like a quail, and they were boiled, and he give ‘em to Smith to
eat. Smith sat down, and I’m sitting with him. He ate both of those eggs. I
says, “How come you didn’t give me one?” He said, “Well, Dave that’s
quite a story.” I said, “No story to me, I didn’t get an egg.” He says, “You
know I’m taller than you.” I said, “Yeah, you are.” He says, “It will take
longer for the eggs to digest because I got this huge body, and I’ll get
more benefits out of it. [Scott laughs] You are a short little man, and when
you eat the eggs, it hasn’t far to go. So I get more benefits. So why should
I give it to you when I can have benefits from it? You wouldn’t have any
benefits.” [Scott laughs] See, that was [laughs] his wit.
Scott: That’s an interesting logic.
15

David: Yeah, well, he says to me—I took a guy, oh God almighty, Puto
[pronounces it “Poocho”]. I can’t think of this medic. He sent me down to
there. A typhoon hit there. We’re still in Limon up against that little
bridge, just a one horse wagon. That’s all. I would say it’s only about eight
feet in the width, about twenty feet length. I went across there with Puto.
He’s from Detroit, and I can’t remember the other guy. Let’s take time
off—remember—write that down so I don’t forget what the hell—
Scott: Okay, we were talking about “Poocher”—
David: Who?
Scott: “Poocher”? Or “Pucher”—
David: P-U-T-O.
Scott: P-U-T-O?
David: “Poocho, Poocho.”
Scott: “Poocho,” okay. [Approx. 20 sec. pause in recording]
David: We’re in—where is that? You got that? Are they underneath there, that
picture?
Scott: Ah, yes.
David: I’ll show you somethin’.
Scott: This photograph?
David: Yeah.
Scott: Okay.
David: See that truck? That was how we brought equipment down that the road.
Up in here is a plateau, and they got steps, and the bridge is down here.
This is all Japanese. Well, he sent me—not up towards the mountain. He
sent me this way, way up. I was about 475 up on the plateau. And I could
get a good look that they had seven machine guns covering the road, the
river and the troops that would come and one from the east. They had
them all placed in there. My job was to find out their location, which I did.
They killed—we started back through the river, and it was running red
then. I got back on the side of the road not too far from the bridge and
somebody hollered, “Get down. He’s firing across the road.” Quick got
16

Scott: Yes.
down, and poor Puto got it in the leg. I and the medics dragged him to
where that car is. He died later from shock. It was horrible. You want to
know what happened in Leyte now?
David: Well, after we got up there after about the egg business, I said, “See how
you are.” He said, “Well, I was hungry too.” But there isn’t anything he
wouldn’t do for me but one thing. He was afraid to make me an officer on
account of my being Jewish. In a way I don’t blame him. I don’t hold
nothing against him. I don’t blame. That time—it wasn’t the commission.
It was the idea being turned down because I was a Jew. Well, after we got
started going down the mountain we ran into Captain Bottcher who was
with reconnaissance troops out of the division headquarters. We told him
to come along with us. He says, no, this is where he’s going to holdout. It
was getting dark. There must have been at least 500 or 600 hundred of us.
And it rained, and that hill, if you want to call it a hill, was so muddy you
had to take the butt of your rifle with the bayonet and pull yourself up.
Stab it down far enough, sometimes you wouldn’t get it down there far
enough. One would help another, and about 2:00 o’clock in the night,
believe it or not, we hear the Japs coming. But they were going down hill.
They had these caribous [backpack], you know, carrying their weapons on
their back. They carried them all the way down to where they had to be.
Well, after I tossed hand grenades in on these people, that line there was to
the commander of the forces of the Japanese. And all I had to do any ten
year old boy could do once you got around ‘em. They never dreamed
you’d get around ‘em. It was very densely—very heavily populated with
trees. Why, I don’t know they didn’t have a spotter. But I believe the
Japanese are excellent soldiers. They probably saw no need for it because
we’d have to come to kill them and we’d have a better chance. That was
in—I guess that was in their minds. So, I just ran as fast as I could to just
throw a hand grenade in each where there was a machine gun. There must
have been at least ten heavy weapons, machine guns, Japanese. They
wanted to hold that base, but before I get ahead of my story—after I got
back to Smith, the next day we get ready to go, and I was standing by that
post. That picture—that one I was standing by the post. There was a
watermelon down there, and everybody was up on the hill already. I
couldn’t see myself that good watermelon go to hell. [Scott laughs] Well,
here they come in, four abreast and a guy on a white horse, by the
thousands. I said, “Ay, yi, yi, yi, yi, yi, I’m never going to see Edgerton or
Lake Geneva, any of it. Ay, yi, yi, yi, yi.” The Jew part came out of me
then. So what did I do, the hell with them, our artillery we had 155s and
105s, we are firing point blank at them, never even broke ranks.
Scott: Gee.
17

David: That’s what you are dealing with, and today people think, oh—when I got
in the papers what I did they called me a murderer. They called me
everything, everything you can think of. I don’t think there was a name in
the book that they didn’t call me. I took it in good stride. I sit here and no
matter where I went people recognized who I am, and all hell breaks
loose. But, that’s life for you. As we are getting towards the top of the hill,
some of the Japs turned around and were going back. They must have
known we were coming back. There was a kid by the name of Imhoff. He
was from Madison. I don’t know why he went all through the campaign in
New Guinea. He jumped out of his foxhole, and that’s how they got’em. It
was sad because I liked him. I really liked that guy; he was a very good
combat man. After that was over we went back into that valley where the
machine guns were. So after I knocked those seven out, I ran downhill as
fast as my little legs could go. But the meantime before that happened,
he’s already killed ten Americans, good friend of mine, Blato. I hated to
see that. He was about your height. He was what you call an all around
American boy. Well, we finally took—after we got up in the mountains
we got orders to leave. You remember the Midway, you ever heard about
that?
Scott: The Battle of the Midway?
David: If it wouldn’t have been for that battle Americans won, I wouldn’t be here.
But as we got to the shore of the ocean there was thousands of them,
Japanese dead soldiers, washed up on the beach, and stink came from
Midway Battle.
Scott: Really?
David: They floated in with the tide. You couldn’t hardly—at least ten feet for
about a mile long dead Japanese sailors. I said everyone counts for them,
not for me. So we left there, and we went with an LST [landing ship,
tank]. We pulled in—the summer capital is Blithe [actually Baguio],
summer capital up in the mountains. We went up in the mountains. First
we landed at Santa Maria, I think it is, and we marched, oh, after we got
off the ship, marched about ten miles, and it was it hot. I finally could see
there’d be some improvement with our outfit. While I was there we got
replacements who never shot a gun, actually shot a gun. The basics they
had, but they never no live bullets or anything like that. Now, I’ve got to
get back to that candy bar. I slip once in awhile. They gave—Miller gave
the candy bar to this little boy. The Japs knew that the Americans where in
that machine gun nest. They came in hordes [?] because there was a hell of
a lot of dead Japs, they both firing—each firing their machine gun. All
three are sitting up against the—I mean the base of the bunker. I hollered
their name, and they didn’t answer me. So I went in there very cautiously
because you never know what’s in there. And he was—eyes open so I
18

shook Miller, his head fell off. I shook the other two, heads fall off. That
little boy, I went looking for him where the hell he is. Fifteen yards away
the Japs killed him.
Scott: And he is the one that you were talking about earlier that tipped them off.
David: Yeah, he tipped them off. It cost those three guys their life. In New
Guinea, or anywhere when you are in combat, you have to have a close
bond between the guy who you don’t like, especially when you’re in
combat, because you are dependent on him, and he’s dependent on you.
Scott: Right.
David: Well, then we reached the top. We went to Leyte—I got that wrong. The
ships came and picked us up, and we went to a place call Fernandez
[possibly San Ferando]. It’s on the coastline. They unloaded us there.
There’s this island of Luzon, and they marched us up the Santa Maria, and
we were carrying our water. No man could go up that mountain carrying
that water. These little Huks they got, little people, they called them Huks
H-U-B [should be H-U-K-S], I think. They would take a five gallon drum
and carry it on their back up there. Thank the Lord while we were there a
little over a month, maybe a little more than a month, I just don’t exactly
the date. While we were on 525, the Japs were on 526 Hill. We had ‘em
surrounded, and we gave ‘em orders to surrender. “We’ll see that no harm
comes to you.” Well, this idiot is the one who gave the orders that you
dive off the cliff, commit hara-kiri or jump. There was 5,000—2,000 I
know. I watched ‘em, the less that we had to kill, jumped off this 526 Hill.
What happened, the commander of the forces—which was about 3,000
left, he gave orders for them to kill themselves. Some did; some didn’t.
Some went back up and ran back and got in the woods. Whatever
happened to them I don’t know. But we lost a hell of a lot of men, too. The
24 th was in there, the 7 th Cavalry, I think the 38 th , 33 rd , and the 31 st were all
in there because they had over 75,000 troops. His name is General
Yamashita. That was the Commander of the forces. When they raped—we
were north of Manila when they raped the city of Manila. It was up to him
to put a stop to it. There was a Marine there, a colonel Marine. He turned
20,000 Japanese loose in Manila. Do anything they want, rape, murder,
but he hung for it later. He hung for it later. But that was a terrible battle. I
was sent with ten other guys. This was a cave they must have dug in with
heavy equipment. They dug this cave out. It went back about a mile in. It
had a little trolley car. We started walkin’ it. It was just as modern as
anything you could be in this little mountain. A stateroom, dining room,
kitchen, everything you could think of, and they had three mountain guns
pointing blank at us. Our job was to put a hand grenade in there and knock
the barrel out. In fact destroyed the whole thing because they had to
rebuild it. We got in there safe and sound. How we got in it, they had
19

sliding doors, and for some reason they were open. The guys got a hold of
‘em and pulled ‘em open so we could go in. This was dark. The Japs never
thought we’d do something like that. We got in—there was a small
pavilion. We walk around—all the way around. We’d station each guy one
way so there’d be ten guys firing. And it was terrible. There was a school
there, not a big school, just a school. And we had to do this: had to blow
up that bridge, and there was a school next to the bridge. And I was the
platoon sergeant so I gave orders to blow up—four other guys and me.
They wouldn’t touch the plunger. At least 400 or 500 hundred kids got on
that bridge. Well, there was three divisions of 1 st , 2 nd and 3 rd Marines
coming up alongside that mountain, and the other side of that bridge,
whatever you want to call it, the Japanese were there. They came at about
I would estimate—he was moving his forces, Hitachi was—I mean, the
other general. They moved the forces. He wanted to get ‘em more central
in the valley because he already controlled the high ground. Well, as we
got up there we had a terrible skirmish. We got the best of them, but we
lost quite a few men. And when MacArthur said the island is secure, back
to the papers and the big shots in New York—I mean Washington—when
you still got 20,000 Japanese soldiers, you call that moppin’ up?
Scott: That is a very large mop up.
David: Jesus, so what did I do? After I was standing by that post there was that
watermelon, I’ll get back to that. I picked that watermelon up. It was
heavy. The guy says, “Come on, you’re going to get killed.” Japs firing at
me, anything you could think—zig, zag with that big watermelon [Scot
laughs]. And I cut it open and everybody wanted a piece. I says, “When I
was out there in danger it didn’t bother you then. How the hell you think I
felt? Here I am sharing my damn watermelon with you, you guys.” So
they sliced it up so we all had a little a piece like that. Well, Smith, he had
to know—and I can’t swear to it about the Medal of Honor. He knew
about my commission. He knew—I showed you a letter with his wife. Did
I show you that letter where his wife says I was discriminated against?
Scott: You showed me one letter from Smith.
David: Well, that’s the one—I got it here somewhere. What the hell did I do with
it? I don’t think I was too prepared for you, but I’m doin’ the best I can I
guess.
Scott: That’s all right.
David: You know, bein’ honest with ya, this brings back really old memories to
me, but I want you to have the story. This is when I had to flee, hide in the
woods. That’s the hill that—where I’m standing in Leyte, and over here’s
20

the watermelon [Scott laughs]. I wasn’t about to—let ‘em shoot me. I’m
gonna have a piece of watermelon.
Scott: Who took those photographs?
David: Well, we had a guy there. I never met him. He had a camera where he
could stand miles [?] and take pictures of you. I never saw a cameraman.
We sure hell wouldn’t have one in the front line.
Scott: This was just one of the guys in the company?
David: No, no, this is a guy that—that’s his job shootin; the war.
Scott: Oh, an official Army photographer.
David: I’m gonna have ‘em made for ya. Your ever see the write-up I got, did
you, in the papers?
Scott: No.
David: Read that while I find what I’m looking for. What saved us—three other
guys and myself was a typhoon. Smith knew that we couldn’t see that
clock over there or that music box or that TV—that’s how thick it comes
down for about two hours, and that river was traveling about twenty-five
thirty miles an hour. I got swept once—I caught the last pole. It was about
thirty feet long, and they didn’t know we were in back. You couldn’t see.
But see, they were firing tracers. I could spot it where the guns were. So, I
said to the boys, “Come on along with me.” I didn’t know Puto had been
shot, and the other guy was crazier than hell so I knew I had to do it alone.
So I did. The next morning we went back the way we came in, and I didn’t
know that Smith took three—part of the Pioneer Platoon, went up there
where we were. He didn’t say nothing. After he came back, I didn’t even
know he was up there. And we was planning a strategy. He always called
me into a meeting. All the officers—I was just a little sergeant. Always
called me—then he’d ask—he was the senior officer—then he’d ask what
I thought about it. I said, “It all stinks, let’s go home.” Then he was going
to give this order, and I knew he was definitely wrong. I don’t want to
bring that up because I don’t want to hurt his family.
Scott: Okay. That’s fine.
David: As I said before he was one of the best combat officer I ever ran into in
my life. And he was good, and he was worried about his men. He took it
personally when somebody got killed because he knew they had a mother
or a brother. They called him “Sea Biscuits” like the horse ‘cause when
you marched he could walked a mile, and you are not even got a quarter of
21

a mile. He’d come back and wait for ya. He was about 6’2, but he was
powerful. You remember General Smith, Katherine?
Katherine: I sure do. I used to like him.
David: Oh, you would have liked him. He stayed right here with us.
Scott: Oh, did he?
David: Yes.
Scott: Well, that’s great.
David: When we got orders we went to Luzon, and I realized we were fighting
Geisha girls under steel helmets, you don’t know. And I said to my buddy,
“We’re in the wrong army, aren’t we?” They had the Geisha girl there.
Well, after the battle there we lost a lot of people. So did the 25 th , the
Lightning Division around the other side of us, Aussies, and they finally
surrendered. When I got in that—let me tell you—they had sliding doors,
and they had a little motor that you touched and it pulls the doors open.
And it was painted green. It looked just like trees. You couldn’t tell if that
was—unless you walked right up to it. We got in there, and I thought I
was in a hotel. Just beautiful what they spent on. He’s the big wheel; he’s
next to the emperor. You should see their staterooms. They had swimming
pools and a regular restaurant, oh. There sat about twenty officers. I didn’t
know what the hell they were talking about. And the women, it was
unbelievable. I can’t explain it enough to you to make you think what a
deal they had. They never dreamed they’re gonna lose the war. But our
mission was to knock out these three mountain guns. When they fire, it
coils back ‘cause you couldn’t spot it, see. We spotted the three all right.
We put dynamite in the chamber and put dynamite all around, about four
sticks in each one. And then we ran a wire. I don’t know why they didn’t
see us, but it was dark. The lights were down on the bottom. This was just
a balcony. And we walked, the ten of us, and I had to make sure this will
go off because I don’t want to come back in here again. And I pressed that
plunger down, and the whole thing, WOOM. It’d take down a skyscraper
in New York. And it just shook, and all those people were killed. I never
showed any remorse towards them because while we were going through
the bushes I saw what they did to one guy who’s dead, castrated him. And
people sit back here, and I never talk about war. I always tell them I’m an
appliance man for Sears, did that all my life. I was 4F. Because the war
was over for me, not the memories, but the war is over. Never—Katherine,
have you ever heard me talk about war?
Katherine: No—
22

David: Never.
Katherine: Not until after that meeting.
David: If we wouldn’t went there, nobody’d ever heard of me.
Scott: Yeah.
David: How would you like to be in this little house, this little apartment which
our son owns all this property. He’s a lawyer in this town, too. And have
people come to your door in the back, stand out there, “You Jew, you son
of a gun.” All the names you could think of. “We’ll kill you, we’ll castrate
you, we’ll hang you.” And I don’t even have a gun. So all I could do was
just take it. And I thought I went to war to save people so they can have
white sheets to sleep in? What did I do—I asked the Lord, “What did I do
to deserve this?”
[End of Tape 1, Side B]
Scott: Oh, my gosh!
He didn’t give me no answer. What did I do? And now since it got out
about me, the Klu Klux Klan, the white supremacist, the militia, the
[unintelligible] one, are after me for twelve years. Twelve years. They
even got me on the internet. I don’t care about that. That doesn’t bother
me. [Approx. 12 sec. pause in recording] [unintelligible] out. I finally got
back, and Puto, we had to drag him. Oh, he was an ex-wrassler. He
weighed about 275, and he was about 6’3, 6’4. He could lift—his arms
were like this, but that little bullet took him. I never thought he’d die. He
went into shock, and it rocked me. The bullets went right between my legs
and hit him.
David: See, you can see what was the letter. It says right there: discrimination.
Scott: Okay.
David: Ask any questions. It’s better for you to ask me questions.
Scott: All right, Leyte, was that the last battle you were in?
David: No, went to Luzon.
Scott: Okay, you went to Luzon next.
David: Got in a hell of a fight there. We lost—
23

Scott: Was that the road that had to go through the mountains?
David: There is a road, but at that time it was—with a little wagon you’re lucky
you could get up there. We had no—nothin’ to take us to the mountains,
but we went up the mountains and the part of the valley, and the Japs
controlled the upper on each mountain there so mountain guns pointing
down on ya. But came back to Leyte—that’s the only time we ever—they
claimed that we had carbines in New Guinea. I never saw one. That
picture says I knocked that tank out with a flamethrower. I never did. A
bazooka got—one of those links stopped it. Had that all mixed up. But that
battle led to us—we lost a lot of people; can’t even begin to count. We
went—got on a ship again, and then we went to Luzon. We got up in the
mountains.
Scott: One last question about Leyte. You were talking about this complex, this
bunker and how elaborate, was that on Hill 526, or was this—
David: Are you talking about the Japanese?
Scott: Yes.
David: No. They—see, we were on the south side of the mountain. There was a
deep valley there for miles. They were on the other mountain, you could
see the mountain. When they fired, they wouldn’t fire at night—I mean
they’d fire at night so you couldn’t trace it. For some reason, I don’t know
who was on their gun, they fired a couple of rounds in daytime. Then we
spotted it.
Scott: I see.
David: Oh, that was beautiful. I can’t even—I never saw anything like that in the
jungle, especially up in the mountains like that. ‘Course they had all the
labor, slave labor, people from the Philippines. But on those other medals,
Smith gave that to Robert Schiller who was by that time was my captain.
Nice guy, the only thing [not?] nice about him, he didn’t like my ethnic
background. And I knew it, but he was never out of line with me. So he
stayed drunk off that shaving lotion you put on your face. He’d drink that.
So that’s why he is dead today. Smith went over, I sat down with our
company clerk and the other guys and what I did. Smith took us all over to
Schiller, “I want you to recommend him for a Medal of Honor and get that
to Division as soon as possible.” Not knowing that he was a very hateful
man that he had to be in the front lines.
Scott: Horrible.
24

David: I don’t know how he—he never—what he did with it I don’t know. Well,
he destroyed it, what he did. And Smith admits that he didn’t follow
through. And Schiller has been dead a long time. He was a National
Guardsmen. That’s why he got to be a captain. I wasn’t thinking of medals
even in New Guinea. I wasn’t thinking of anything. I was thinking of
staying alive. I had a brother there and two [unintelligible]. Terrible
Scott: Did you get any rest period between—
David: You can’t sleep. You can lay down. When I got over on the other side of
the mountain we got orders before we get to Buna to take Papadera
[probably Dobodura], and there was no Japs there at all. That’s when we
went up in the mountains there. And I had the diarrhea so—this is
something small that happens in the world. I had the diarrhea and a fever
so bad I thought I would die any minute. I got three-quarters up the
mountain, I laid down by some shrubbery, and, you know, I put my own
hand out like that, and I kind of went to sleep. ‘Cause I knew the Japs
were on the move, and I had to have that rest. So I must have slept about
half an hour, and my arm was still—so I look—what the hell is that?
Smith out here? Big rock, I smoothed it over, and it shined like gold. So it
was about a chunk like this not quite as big as a basketball. I thought, aw,
what the hell, I know there is gold dust. I’ll just take that along and put it
in my sack, my poncho. So I took it with me. Months went by; we finally
went back to Australia. So I got a permit pass to go into Brisbane. So I go
into Brisbane, and I give this guy—I know him real good—to find out if—
no, I didn’t know him, but somebody referred me to him. So what did he
do? It was pure gold. He locked his doors and took off. I went back there,
and I—a barbershop right next to it. I says, “What happened to him, he
die?” “No, he struck it rich. He had a big piece of gold. He cashed it in,
and they gave him over a million and a half dollars and he is gone.” I said,
“Oh, where the hell did he go?” He said, “I don’t know. They moved out
at night.” He says, “They owe me two months back rent. You find him let
me know!” He said, “Well, who are you anyhow?” I said, “Well, I’m an
American.” He said, “Yes, I know that.” “I gave him that gold to see if it
was gold.” “Did you get a receipt?” I said, “What good would it do me to
get a receipt in Australia to come back here and take some guy to court?
He’s already sitting out there with the Aborigines.” Well, the gold was
gone. Then I picked up a saber, this type of a saber is never used in war. It
is a golden blade. They practiced it on the Chinese in Nanking, how they
raped a city, and they’d get a man and hold his head like that, and you get
your training by usin’ it to cut his head right off. The top of that saber—it
was about this high to the handle—all diamonds in it, that much I knew all
around it. It was worth a good amount of money. It’s not the money I was
thinking. It was the principle. I wanted to turn it in to maybe to our
museum. I didn’t know if I was gonna make it or not, but I lugged that
damn sword way up in Luzon, in the mountains, out of the mountains, had
25

it in my poncho. Finally when I got back, after all that battling, we were
going to go to Okinawa, but then they signed papers. I says to Smith, “Are
we going into another battle?” He says, “I guess we are.” “When are we
going home?” “I don’t know,” he said, “Maybe we won’t go home.”
“You’re not much comfort to me telling me we ain’t going to go home.
You don’t go home; I’m going home.” When it was over in Luzon, you
know how many regiment men walked out of those mountains?
Scott: I was going to ask you.
David: Three.
Scott: Three?
David: Two, myself and another guy, and Major General Herbert A. Smith. At
that time he was Battalion Commander. So that medal went down the
drain. And when it came out about me—at first I wanted it, but then after
that I didn’t want it no more, did I? Not the medal.
Katherine: No, “Let’s just forget it” [laughs].
David: I had so much flak, and I just—we even made a special trip to go to
Washington to take my name off about the Medal of Honor, and he
wanted to know why. I says, “Because when you are a Jew you know
why.” He said, “I can’t do that.”
Scott: Were you involved in any more combat in Luzon then or?
David: No, the war ended.
Scott: The war was ended by that time? Were you a part of the Occupation
Forces in Japan?
David: No, they took all new men. There was a couple of old ones, I guess, a
couple of old guys, but they were way back. They didn’t do any fighting,
but they were with the Division. There was some. I don’t know how many
there was.
Scott: So when were you sent back stateside?
David: I think it was in—when the war was over, I think, in the later part of
August.
Scott: Can you tell me about your return trip?
26

David: Well, that is a good question. Smith got his orders when I was in Luzon to
form a—came over by [unintelligible]. He looked at me, and he said,
“Well, Dave this is where we part,” and he [unintelligible] the side of the
mountain. I said, “Yeah.” He said, “I definitely want you to come and see
me.” I said, “I don’t know about that, Colonel, after what you and I went
through I don’t think I want to look at you for a long time.” He knew I
meant it. He says, “Was I that bad?” “I won’t say you were bad. I just say
you had no feelings for me being a Jew or any ethnic background, but I
forgive ya.” And then he left, and I and the other guy, I can’t remember
his name, we walked down the hill, everything was quiet. We got to the
command post, and the guys were leaving like flies. So it was a couple
more months that we were getting to go to Okinawa, and I thought I’d be
going to Okinawa. “My God, how am I ever gonna get out of this combat
business?” Just as we got ready to go the war ended and I couldn’t believe
it. The War was over for me. What did I do? I sat down by a tree, and I
actually cried. I mean cried to think, “God Almighty, I’m going home.”
You don’t know what a feeling that is. My brother Harry got home before
I did. I couldn’t believe it. But we went down to the foot of the mountains
and set up tents to put the kitchen up and all that. They had my go home
on points, for two weeks the company clerk held it back. He held it back,
and I found that out. I didn’t say nothing to him at first. Then when I knew
had the pink slip that I could go because he could delay that I said, “I’m
real sorry that I didn’t get a chance to go home,” but I said, “maybe next
time.” I was givin’ him honey instead of turpentine. Well, the order came
down that I—they wanted to know why I didn’t go with Smith and them,
and he got red in the face. He said that, “I couldn’t send him at the time. It
slipped my mind that you were suppose to go. I forgot all about it.” I said,
“Robert, would you forget that you have to go home, would you forget
about it? If I was the first sergeant I don’t think I would forget about it.”
Well, then I still didn’t go home. They sent Robert Jensen ahead of me. He
was all right. There was at least ten more guys ahead of me that just came
over from the United States when we went into the Battle of Luzon. Here I
got all this time. Well, finally they came down, we were on the foot of the
hills in Luzon. I couldn’t believe that I was gonna make it. My brothers all
got home. I thought, “Oh, my God. Don’t tell me I’m going to get home.”
I don’t care who knows it. I cried all the way down the mountains to think
there is a Jew that survived this horrible ordeal. Then when I got to the
foot of the mountain and got in where Jensen was he hastened me to even
give me those papers. I said, “Jensen, I’ll show you something. You know
what combat is, but you don’t know what it is unless you’re there, and you
never been there. And if you don’t have my papers ready by tomorrow
morning I’ll kill you.” Because I figured if we went to Okinawa I might
get it there. In my heart I didn’t mean it. But my life was at stake because
they are saying we are going to Okinawa. They had over 200,000 troops I
understand there and just one division who weren’t even full strength?
Holy Christ! The odds are a hundred to one that you ain’t going to make it.
27

The next morning at 6:00 o’clock he comes running down like—goin’
like—running down to wake me up. He says, “You’re goin’. You’re gonna
be leavin’ by 9:00 o’clock. You better go down and shower.” Well, he’s
all excited. But in the same token he was going home with me. [Scott
laughs] When I left Luzon I couldn’t believe that I was going home. What
happened to the rape of Manila—maybe they ought to know that, too. A
colonel—gee, I can’t pronounce that Japanese name, turned his 20,000
marines to the public. They raped, they murdered, they burnt everything
you could think of. Sodomized little girls, boys, didn’t make any
difference. They were animals. I knew what they were going to do, and I
told Smith before we go home. “I don’t have no authority, but why don’t
you notify somebody what’s going to happen.” They waited, that colonel
waited till they had signed and heard that the infantry was going home. He
made damn sure everything was going to be right. And what he did was
turn his troops loose. Oh, what they didn’t do! Unbelievable what they
didn’t do to those people, defenseless.
Scott: So when you got your papers where did you go?
David: Fort Snelling.
Scott: You went to Fort Snelling in Minnesota?
David: Well, tell them the news about Israel wanted me, hey, right after I got
out—shortly after she came into my life.
Katherine: We found out that David interviewed actually some people that wanted
him to come to Israel to take over their troops over there [laughs].
David: Commander of a tank outfit. I said, “I never been in a tank [Katherine
laughs], but I know how the hell to drive a car. I know how to drive a
semi.”
Katherine: We were tryin’ to figure out how we could do it because of—
David: Then they offered me Chief of Staff of the Israeli Army. I turned that
down. I said, “Look, I did a little killing myself, and I don’t want have
anybody underneath me to get killed. I want to be able to go home.” I said,
“How did you get my name?” “In Washington.” I said, “Well, how did
that come about?” He says we have people that hire guns for sale, and we
pay ‘em a good—with room and board. They can take their wives and live
in Tel Aviv, but you have to spend two years over there fighting. And I
asked this one colonel, remember? I says, “In the dictionary—is the word
appeasement in your dictionary?” He says, “No, but this is our
appeasement: Boom.” They grew up in it. Well, it was a good deal, but I
couldn’t—what was the deal with me? I’d have to go sixty—
28

Katherine: Well, he would have to forfeit his American citizenship, and I would have
been all right, but he would have to forgo that.
David: See, you’re fighting for another country.
Katherine: No way [laughs].
Scott: Was this in 1949?
David: 1949. That’s when Japan came into the Geneva Convention. They even
called her and told her they are going to use the Geneva Convention on
me. They called the generals. My Attorney Dew says, “Send somebody
down here to talk to both generals.” They came back with the excuse we
don’t have the money for it. That’s a fact.
Katherine: That’s the United States government. [laughs]
David: Yeah. They made up their mind. Here’s where it lies. Japan got their nose
in it. They did not want me to receive the medal ‘cause Yamamoto
committed hara-kiri, and he comes from a fabulous, a famous family, and
to think that we were only hinder [?] out of there, and I destroyed his
battalion, one little Jew boy.
Scott: How was your reception when you returned to Edgerton?
David: I was always a loner, ya know.
Scott: Okay.
David: There is some beautiful people in Edgerton, and that’s in every city, but I
went away—my brothers all went away. My poor ma, my pa, they did
speak a little English by now.
Katherine: Your father could.
David: Yeah, but he couldn’t read, though, and he couldn’t write, but he
understood. So he’d take the letter, my ma and him would be so happy,
take the letters that she got from her sons, and this one neighbor says,
“They were all killed.” My ma had a stroke after that. Well, she
recuperated, and they had a parade. Well, she fell down waving a little
flag, but she fell down, laid down there in the gutter. Some guy, I got him
later, kicked her in the ribs, broke her ribs. They got her home, we had no
money for doctors; so they healed that way. Then when she was there by
herself kids would drive by and grab her hair and yank it out. It was a
different generation than it is today. When I was a boy I would never do
29

a—I would never think of doing something of a thing like that. And when
my three brothers got home my ma still thought I was dead. She couldn’t
get it into her head why I didn’t come home with them. When I arrived
home, nobody knew it. I come across the railroad tracks. I saw my pa out
there, and I saw my ma. She was sitting way off to the left. I could just see
her. And I hollered, “Hey, Pa.” He didn’t hear too good, but I hollered a
couple of times. I was about a hundred feet from him. He looked around,
he come running over, and he looked, “Mine boy.” He said, “Schiessen,
schiessen,” that means to shoot in German. “Ya, little ba [?],” and then he
hollered, “Ma, Ma.” And he run down that little path and told Ma I was
here. And she had a stroke from it because there was so much pounded in
her head that I was dead even though my other brothers got home that I
didn’t make it. What a dirty thing to tell anybody especially—that was
terrible. It took me years to find out who that guy that kicked her in the
ribs. When we did he apologized all over the place. Apologies don’t mean
nothing! It’s like somebody writes you in the papers, they put a retraction,
you know what people say? “He’s lying anyhow.” So it’s better to let it be
in there. It took me the hard way to find that out. Well, I arrived home. I
stayed there. My uncle, my sisters, my ma was in California then. She was
going to go to California, and she was so happy to see me. I stayed exactly
I think just about five days, and the first day I was in terrible shape. Aw,
Christ! Every little crack, I thought there was somebody shooting at me.
So I decided not to tell anybody, I joined the Merchant Marines. I sailed
for over thirty some years, and never contacted anybody. I couldn’t even
find myself, how am I going to contact anybody? But when I got out after
all those years—see, they changed the Merchant Marines into military
now. There’s no Merchant Marines, only people to hire people to run
boats. I’ll tell you how the government works. So they made the Merchant
Marines, what they did the Merchant Marines made like regular Navy.
You get all the benefits, but you have to wait five years. That just came
out about a year ago, was it Katherine? You have to wait five years from
the time you register and, most of those guys are up in their 70’s. What the
hell good is it gonna do then? You’ll be dead [Katherine laughs].
Scott: So you were in the Merchant Marines for thirty years then?
David: Over that. The reason I kept quiet on that because I didn’t want the
monster writing. Everything I did even from the donating a thousand
dollars to the shelter and donating all my money, still wrote that as a false,
fake—[Approx. 5 sec. side conversation regarding a meal]
Scott: So when did you come back to Wisconsin then?
David: I came back in I think it was the last part of August, I think it was.
Scott: Of what year?
30

David: 1976.
Scott: ’76? Okay.
David: You mean from the war?
Scott: No, no, I mean from the Merchant Marines.
David: When I came home, oh hell, I came home—yeah, 1976. My time was up.
Scott: Did you go to Edgerton then or?
David: I went to South America.
Scott: Oh, South America?
David: British Honduras. I had a friend, a Rick—worth million of dollars. He
wanted me ‘cause I saved his rear one time in the path of a machine gun.
He was hit in both legs. He would have died from shock. I got him out of
there. He never forgot that. It nearly cost me life. The bullet went right
though my helmet. I laid still. I think the Jap thought I was dead. We laid
there in that hot sun, 110, 115, all day till the sun went down. I got him out
of there, and he never forgot it. I came back. He raises coconuts; he sells
them by the millions. And he pays the natives like they do at Burger King,
at least four dollars, and so they work hard. They work eight hours, that’s
$32.00, and their tax is something based on something different. I don’t
know what the hell it is. I did know, but I forgot. But I told him I’m going
home, and he went, “Oh, God.” He and his wife try their darnedest, try to
fix me up with women [Scott laughs]. They knew all kinds. Anyhow, I
came on home, and then I went to Edgerton. In our family all us boys,
there were twelve boys and two girls. We always had a reunion once a
year, and she was a friend of my sister. Meantime, her husband died,
which I knew when I was a young boy. So I met her, and it’s the best thing
ever to happen to me. Without her I’d probably be dead. That’s a fact. I
never saw a woman like her, and I have been around the world four
different times. I have been in every country. ‘Cause in my day there was
no ambassadors. They would send the captain of the ship, goodwill tour.
We’d get three days off, and we’d go ashore. Well, after I got over that,
and I was still shaky when I met her. She knew there was something
wrong with me. I’m surprised that she even stuck with me for about the
first year and a half. I called her from Waterford. I didn’t even know my
own name. I had no medication, I had nothing. I didn’t even know you
could get your medication free; I didn’t know that. I didn’t know any
doctors, and I wandered around for about three weeks in the woods—just
chase—I thought I was—I was running around like a crazy man, shirt off,
31

Scott: That’s great.
shoes off running in them woods. I sat down—I fell, and I fell in the creek,
and I realized, hey, I could have died, and I’m alive, I’m alive. So I went
and got some clothes, I called up my friend the undertaker who’s got my
size. I get ‘em for a buck, ya know. So I went to—got dressed up, shaved,
new shoes, bought a bundle of clothes, went back to Edgerton. Well, we
had a reunion of my family. She was a close friend of my little sister out in
Sacramento, and through her—she didn’t introduce me, I introduced
myself to her. That’s twenty-three years ago, and I’m being frank with
you. If it weren’t for her I’d be dead. If it weren’t for her I really would—I
needed a heart operation, she dragged me there. I needed a bladder
operation, she dragged me there. I had tumors all over my butt, she
dragged me there. I can’t even begin to tell you what she has done for me.
David: And I never thought in my life that her family of judges and at least seven
lawyers, and here what am I? I am just a little Jew boy. Jews weren’t too
welcomed in Edgerton, but as I said before there are some fine people.
You are always going to have a rotten egg somewhere.
Scott: Sure.
David: So I forgave them years ago. But it was sad to think that somebody would
come in and do this to your mother. Well, I caught up with him finally.
Scott: Now you were telling me when we were switching tapes that you heard
something about a 32 nd Division reunion. Was that in Milwaukee?
David: Janesville, Ramada Inn.
Scott: In Janesville. And you hadn’t been in any veterans organization—
David: Never.
Scott: Before then?
David: In fact, they had a 32 nd Association on Broadway Street in Milwaukee. I
was going to join it. I talked to a couple of guys I grew up with. They said,
“Oh, hell, you’ll never get in.” I said, “Why?” I was with the 32 nd . I
thought I was. He said, “Well, they don’t take Jews in it.” So I have to find
this out for myself. So I had a buddy that I knew from—he’s dead now,
from Freeport.
Scott: Illinois?
32

David: He worked there, but he lived in Barriette [?], Baronette [?] County [may
have meant Village of Barrington in both Lake and Coole counties], that’s
the richest county in a—around Chicago.
Scott: I think I know the town you are talking about, but I’ve forgotten it.
David: No, this is—that’s the name of that—
Scott: Oh, Lake County is north of Chicago. That’s—
David: That I don’t know.
Scott: That’s pretty wealthy, I know.
David: Well, I had a hell of a time when I got home. And I could see the handwriting
on the wall. This is not for me. If I would have stayed it would
have been hard on my ma for one reason. They’d be calling her when I’m
not around, and I was so shook up that after I met her—I remember a
place called Waterford, Wisconsin, and I went to a pay phone, and I don’t
even remember my own name. I called her to tell her I need help, I’m sick.
I was very sick. I was fighting the war over and over and over. Believe it
or not, I was practically a stranger to her although she knew my family.
She come and got me. I don’t remember getting in the car; I don’t
remember getting out, gettin’ out of the car. So they had a big basement
with her former husband, as I told you is deceased. She says, “I’m going
to put you in the basement. There’s a nice bed and toilet and everything
else, and I’m going to lock you in.” By that time I was really gone, crazier
than hell. So she locked me in, and she had a slit in there, and for three
days I stayed there, and she put food through that slit. Well, I kind of got
better. For some reason she had some Valium. She said, “I wish you’d
take a couple of these, but not all at one time.” So she gave me—that’s not
right taking medicine from anybody, but I was just in real bad shape. I was
killing everybody.
Scott: How did you cope with those memories and those feelings when you were
in the Merchant Marines?
David: What I did, I nailed a board here and a board there and one in the back—
no, one in the front. I put that in my mind—
Scott: Okay. I see.
David: That what I done—it’d be like a roadblock—couldn’t go any farther.
That’s what I did, and I never, never, never said my name was Rubitsky. I
sailed under a different name because I knew that they didn’t like Jews. I
used the name S-K-I. That’s Polish; Y is Russian. And they all used to call
33

[End of Tape 2, Side A]
me “Ski.” The only ones that knew my right name was the paymaster and
the captain of the ship. And in the first place he had part Jewish in him so
he understood, but he didn’t have a Jewish name. Otherwise I’d probably
gotten a blade between my ribs. So I kept quiet. I went to school in
Jacksonville, Florida, and remember I was only—I didn’t graduate high
school. They would let me. So I went to become a aviation mechanic, and
I studied for three months, I really did. And the chief boatswain helped me
‘cause I was up in not grade school.
David: With no high school. He worked with me every night with his wife, take
me to his home. And he knew the situation I was in. So 500 graduate; 499
graduate; one Jew didn’t graduate. He was so mad; he made it a point to
see the commander. God damn—darned near cost him his stripes. He says,
“In my twenty-five years,” I think that what he told me, he’s “never seen
anything like it.” And the old man called me a couple of days later and
says to me, “We don’t even want Jews in the Navy, you’re lucky you’re
even here.” I didn’t dare to say nothing because MPs were out there. He
could have thrown me in jail. And I said to him, “Well, if you don’t like
me, I don’t have any hate towards you. No matter what you tell me I still
won’t have no hate because the Lord doesn’t want you to be—to hate
somebody or jealous.” He knew that I was in New Guinea and Leyte, and
he never saw any combat, and he resented that, see. Now, he did talk to
me about twenty minutes. He says, “You know, I was never in combat.
You resent that?” he said to me. I says, “Why should I? The war’s over. I
don’t care who went or who didn’t.” He says, “You know I’m the one who
stopped your promotion.” I said, “That’s all right. I realize you don’t care
about Jews so I can’t change your mind, but I’ll say one thing. I’ll do my
job, what I’m supposed to do.” And he assigned me to—sent me first
down to Georgia, Bismarck, something like that. They had this blimp. My
job was to get a hold of that rope—a couple of weeks ago—before I got
there two guys went up in the air and got killed, dropped off the rope. And
I wasn’t about to [Approx. 4 sec. side conversation] get a hold of that
football. It strains your arms. The thing that made me the worst mad, they
get flight pay. So these officers lift the blimp off the ground that high—
that’s $93.00 extra more a month. That’s more pay than I get all month.
The more I thought it, the madder I got. So I tried to figure how the hell I
went—so the punishment I get was to shine the officers’ shoes black;
some had brown so I switched them around. The old man says, “What am
I going to do with you?” We’d have parades, you know, and here they
wouldn’t—gotta have black shoes [laughs]. So they kicked me out of
there, made me in charge of the latrine. I had to dig that, but we never
used it till I said, “I’m in charge of the toilets, right?” Well, that was fine. I
had a great big hose, squirting all over hell. And I knew exactly what time
the captain came, So I was standing there, and he opened up the door—
34

Boom. Oh, you never heard such a man get so mad. “God damn, Dave,
what am I going to do with you?” I just, “What did I do?” “Look at this
uniform. I gotta meet with the admiral. This is the only clean uniform I
got.” “Well,” I says, “you know I make pretty good money in the Navy.
Just take it out of my paycheck and buy [laughs] yourself a suit.” Made
him more mad—he finally sent me up to Charleston to get rid of me. Gee.
That was my Navy recruit [?] with him.
Scott: Now do you belong to any veterans organizations?
David: I belong to the permanent D.A.V., permanent with the Veterans of Foreign
Wars. I belong to the NAACP, mine and Katherine. I belong to the
American Legion. I belong to the Vietnam Veterans, associated member I
am.
Scott: Oh, an associate member?
David: I belong to everybody that you can think of. Every month I must send out
about $60.00 worth of this and that and this and that, but I don’t begrudge
it.
Scott: Do you think that is a worthwhile cause for you? I mean that you really,
you know, this is helping you by being with other veterans?
David: It makes me—yeah, you don’t have to meet them, but it makes you feel
good that somebody might be worse off than you are.
Scott: Mm hmm. Well, that is pretty much all the questions that I had. You
covered just about everything that I can think of. Is there anything else that
you’d like to add?
David: One more thing: when we pulled out of there by Buna the bank was about
eight feet high. The entrance creek was running along—it would be going
north out to the ocean. And I was the last man, and “Number One Boy”
who carries a gun, a native, he’s been trained, he’s been sent to Sidney
‘cause they wanted to build up the native army. As we was walking I was
carrying the barrel of the heavy .30. One time—for a little guy I was
strong. Never drank in my life yet. I never smoked in my life. I was what
you called a very good fencer. A guy from France taught me how to do it.
Five years on the ship with me, and I never won any tournaments. He won
a lot of trophies. The one thing, I could handle that sword. Well, on our
way back, I look down, my head is down, I was so happy. My shoes had
rotted off my feet. I had no clothes, nothing. Mosquitoes are eating me up,
Jesus, terrible! I look down, and I see about a ten year old girl layin’ in the
creek there. The crocs—that was full of crocs, but the crocs were eating
the dead Japs. There was hundreds of them layin’ there. So they didn’t
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other with the little girl, just that she had her legs in there. I saw her
move, and I called “Number One Boy.” I said, “Come on down. There’s a
girl down there.” So we go down the bank, and she started talking to me.
She was bleeding from her mouth, bleeding from her vagina. And she
spoke to me in her native tongue. Then he told me that there was a captain
out there at a bunker, a certain place that I knew—I knew where
everything was because that was my job in a way. What he did was he cut
her vagina so he could have sex with her. He also cut the tip of the nipples
off of her and beat her to a pulp and threw her down the bank. So he went
up the bank, and he got three or four men, and they took her. I don’t know
if she ever survived or not, but I went out in the woods, and I told the guy
next to me, “Tell them I went back in the woods. I got a little job I gotta
do.” I went back in that swamp, mud with my rifle, put the bayonet on,
and I spotted him. He did not have a stitch of clothes on him. He laid
down a white towel about that wide [?]—oh, I’d say about three by three,
a little larger than that a guess, laid his pistol and his—the knife that he
kills himself with. He went in this creek and washed himself, he did
everything. I was going to let him have his [unintelligible] the way he is.
So I crept up to the bushes, which was about five feet from him, and I
knew the minute that he got out he would get down on his hands and
knees and start praying, then take that knife. I was five feet from him, and
I wasn’t about to let him get away with that kind of a deal that he pulled
on her, atrocities. And just as he was bending down I yelled, “Banzai” and
I come running. He tried to get his pistol. I run it right straight through,
and I chopped him up like a piece of herring. And I left feeling good. The
crocs ate him. But, you see, the one thing I find out, the people in the
United States, it’s the best country in the whole world, but they don’t
realize when you are a young man when you have to go to war like that
and you get out, you are a different person. You take a man off the street
and then within six weeks he is fighting. It’s a hell of a thing. When we
went back—that’s when we went back to Australia, but when we came
back again we went to Goodenough Island [Papua New Guinea] first. We
were slated to go to Rabaul, our division, it’s in Bougainville [Papua New
Guinea]. Something happened along the line back in New Guinea. We
landed I think it was at if I’m not mistaken Finschhafen. So many years
ago—I think it is Finschhafen. We saw a couple of shows. They had—sit
on a tin barrel. They come—Bob Hope was there and his girlfriends or
whatever you want to call ‘em, but he was very good to the veterans. I
appreciate that. I think he was a real true man to his wife. He was down to
earth, and Lana Turner was the girl, if I remember her. She put on quiet a
show, and there must have been at least 3,000 guys, you know, and not
even seen a white woman in years. Well, they run the—and then this guy’s
eyes stuck out, “Como” [Jerry Colonna] or something like that.
Scott: Oh, yes, I forgot his name.
36

David: He was there, too. He put on quite a show, and so did Crosby. There must
have been about ten. And that was a relief just to see something different.
What a relief. Well, after all this has been done towards me in the last
twelve years, I didn’t deserve any of that. Come to my door and do
everything you can think of. I think a man should have the right to do what
he wants to without people interfering in your business especially when
you’re not there. Just say you had a car accident, and I’m sitting in
Milwaukee. I’m writing about you that you are in the fault, but I wasn’t
there. That’s the same with the monster, that Nordlander. He is good, but
he is a twisted, diseased mind—that’s what the doctor in Meneenah
[Menasha? Neenah?]—I got the papers here, what he said about him. It’s
right here.
Scott: Now you hadn’t had even a thought of trying to get the—
David: No.
Scott: Medal of Honor?
David: Oh, no, never, never, never.
Scott: Until after the 32nd Division reunion meeting when—
David: Never.
Scott: Who suggested that you should try to pursue that, you know, because—
David: Brigadier Joseph Stehling.
Scott: Stehling did? Who was the captain that you saved his life—
David: Yeah, that was the captain I got—so he went out of his way. He had us
come up to Beaver Dam. He took us through his machine shop. Had the
guy notarize it. He says, “Dave, this ought to do it for ya ‘cause you
deserve it.” Not a thing was brought up about him being ill or anything
like that, but bygone is bygone. I’ll get back to General Smith. When he
asked me about the medal then we started talking about what happened. I
says, “Look, we can’t fight between ourselves.” But this was up on the
front line when he called me over to him. I told him, “We can’t fight
amongst ourselves because the Japs will kill us. We should try to live with
one another.” He never said a word, but—
Scott: Now you had signed affidavits from Generals—
David: Robert Jensen, 1 st Sergeant, two platoon sergeant which is a staff sergeant.
That’s three right there, the general, Major General Smith and Lt. Colonel
37

Herbert M. Smith, and also Lt. Colonel Florey. He is dead now. He was
from Beloit. F-L-O-R-E-Y, what a combat man. He should have got the
“Bird” [promotion to colonel whose insignia is an eagle]. I watched him—
there was a great big log in New Guinea; well, it was a trunk of a tree what
it was. And this Jap was thirty feet away from that log. He’d come up, and
I was sitting there. I could have got him, but he went like that to me, and
when he got down he timed it—he would crawl so many feet. He did that
for about two hours. I thought, “Jesus, he’s nuts.” And I’m sitting there
and all us guys are sitting there watching this. All they have to do is one
bullet would get him. After he got there, just as he rose up, he finally got
there, dropped a hand grenade in on him. He’s the guy I called when I was
in the bunker to tell him what’s happening out there. He hated Mott so bad
that he thought—he didn’t report it, but he signed an affidavit that he
knew it. He did not report it to Mott. He wouldn’t even talk to Mott
because Mott took away for awhile took his command away from him, but
they made him right back again. These are all these things that happened.
Scott: Now, all these affidavits have gone to Washington now, and it’s with
the—
David: It’s a package.
Scott: Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff?
David: It went there. What is now—we could never see Senator Feingold here,
could we Girl?
Katherine: No. He comes out weekends, but he is always so busy, and he has his
family. So we never could see him.
David: He has an office here. He comes n there—
Katherine: He has an an office in Middleton.
David: Yeah, we went to Middleton and couldn’t see him, but we flew all the way
to Washington D.C. to get five minutes of his time. I looked at him, and I
remember—not me but my dad and my—they’re Jewish, too, ya know?
My dad and my brothers all knew him real good. In fact, my oldest brother
used to rock him on his lap. That’s a fact. Well, after we were there awhile
he got up and he excused himself, that said he had to go. He said, “We’ll
keep on pushing.” That’s a joke. So she—out of her blue mind, what was
her name? Oh—
Katherine: Jackie Martin.
38

David: Jackie Martin. She says you will get no more help from us. If I had came
out in the newspapers about that, he’d a had a hard go, but I didn’t like the
other peanut head so I shut up. [Scott and Katherine laugh] I didn’t like
that peanut head running against him.
Scott: Well, that’s when all the—now, had you been harassed at all before then?
It wasn’t until it started getting in the newspapers?
David: When I—never—no, no, no—we never was harassed—
Scott: Never had any problems?
David: No, nobody knew anything about me.
Katherine: Not until it came out in the newspapers. That was all [unintelligible]. So
all that—and they got quite a bit of ink in the newspapers, and that’s when
it all started I think.
David: They came like flies at me. Oh, I gotta tell you about CNN.
Katherine: Time—you better—
David: All he has to do is tell me he’s got enough—
Katherine: Okay [laughs].
David: We’ll open up the book—I’m waiting for him.
Scott: Well, I’ll tell you what. I just wanted to wrap up real quickly with your
application or tryin’ to pursue the Medal of Honor and if there was
anything else you wanted to add.
David: My attorney says, “When you die, Dave, they will give it to ya.”
Scott: Well, we’d be happy to take your papers; we really would because we do
have an archive.
David: This I took off a sergeant. They said they don’t use—
[End of Interview]
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