IAB-ASS-009-10-Minutes-Assessors-Paris-2010 - IIW

IAB – INTERNATIONAL AUTHORISATION BOARD
IAB-ASS-009-10
March 2010
ASSESSORS’ WORKSHOP
MINUTES OF THE MEETING
18 JANUARY 2010 - VILLEPINTE – FRANCE
1. Welcome and introductions
.
Christian AHRENS and Henk BODT opened the session welcoming everybody.
2. Minutes and actions from previous Assessors’ Workshop (14 January 2009)
The minutes (Doc. IAB-ASS-006-09) were accepted.
Jim GUILD referred the issue of the conflict of interests. Following the IAB development and growth there
is a significant possibility in having conflict of interests. The matter to be discussed in detail by the IAB
Board was sent to the Chairman of Group B to present to the Assessors Group which can be pro-active in
insuring that conflict of interests is considered before appointing the assessors.
This issue of conflict of interests is being discussed in the IAB Board for which Chris Smallbone had
already prepared a draft document which is being considered in the IAB Board discussions.
3. Review list of Lead Assessors and Distance Learning Assessors
The list of Assessors (Doc. IAB-099r15-09) was updated.
4. Discussion of recent changes to IAB Rules and OPs (G. Hernandez)
German HERNANDEZ referred the recent changes to the Rules and revised documents approved in
Singapore: IAB-001-r3-07; OP-05 revision 1 and OP-06 revision 1; OP-17 – Annex 2b; OP-20.
5. Review of future Audit Program. Discussion on requirements about grouping ANB and
ANBCC audits to one visit
Christian AHRENS presented the Audit Program.
Italo FERNANDES asked to add the initial audit in Turkey on 22-23 February 2010.
The Audit Program was then examined thoroughly.
• Audits already done:
Slovenia; China; India; Brazil; Russia (applied for ANBCC); Norway; Romania; Switzerland; Serbia
(initial ANBCC audit); UK (ANBCC will apply for waiving).
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• Tim JESSOP recommended that some of the audits for January 2011 to be done one month before.
• Several other audits were analysed and recommendations made regarding assessors:
Poland – ANB re-assessment PA required – Vaclav Minarik was recommended;
Slovakia – PA – recommends Michal Kubica
Ukraine – PA – recommends Hans Gross
USA – they indicated that they will not become ANB but they apply for ANBCC. A letter of intent was
received.
Nigeria – Italo Fernandes informed about the Quality Manual received as well the answers to the
major questions.
Indonesia – a short meeting was done to improve the QM. An initial audit is foreseen for mid 2010.
Republic of Korea – nothing has happened so far
Greece – Quality Manual received last week
• Distance Learning audits
Christian AHRENS informed that there will be an audit to Austria on 23 February 2010. Norway also
asked for Distance Learning. Germany asked for Distance Learning for Welding Specialist.
• The Assessors were asked to consider the appointments and to see if there is any conflict of interests:
Austria – Christian AHRENS raised the possibility of a conflict of interest as Austria is intending to use
the DL German system.
• There will not be conflict of interest in the audits regarding the following countries:
Sweden, Denmark, Austria, Germany, Bulgaria, Croatia, Slovenia, Canada, China, Hungary, South
Africa, Russia, Norway, Romania, Ukraine, Slovakia, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Singapore,
Thailand, Ukraine, Nigeria, USA, Turkey, Indonesia, Iran, South Korea, Greece, Australia
• For some countries it were pointed out some eventual conflict of interest:
India, Brazil, Switzerland, Serbia, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal. For these cases new LA and PA were
referenced.
It was agreed to add a new clause on conflict of interest in OP-02 to ensure that this aspect is
considered in the appointment of the assessors to be presented in Group B.
6. Presentation of comments and/or situations that could originate changes in Rules and Ops
There are some aspects in the Rules that will need some changes. Discussion of this item was postponed
for the afternoon.
7. Group Exercise on auditings certification activities (tasks from January 2009)
8. Discussion/results of Group Exercise
In January 2009 it was distributed to the Assessors a list of 14 ANB Audit findings and 15 ANBCC Audit
findings to be discussed in the groups formed and to indicate in which category to place each of the
findings (major non-compliance, minor non-compliance, observation or not relevant to the Rules).
Tim JESSOP commented on the Group Exercises received and detailed discussion was held on the
results.
Special attention was given to the ANBCC audits. Tim JESSOP mentioned that one of the most important
parts is that Lead and Peer Assessors have to be absolutely convinced that the ANBCC has a thorough
way of ensuring that Companies’ Welding Coordinators are in accordance with ISO 14731. The EA 6/02
and the IAB documents are very clear about what is required in terms of assessing welding coordinators
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and the ANBCC must have a procedure and a system to do it. If an ANBCC is not assessing properly the
Companies’ Welding Coordinators, the certification they are issuing has no credibility.
It was suggested that document EA 6/02 be loaded on the IAB page to facilitate the new ANBCCs. It was
further suggested that the link to this document be mentioned on the IAB documents.
9. Discussion about different items
• Henk BODT referred that it was positive to combine ANB and ANBCC audits. It was agreed to insert
this in OP-12.
• Christian AHRENS referred the model of the Audit Report that was agreed to use. As some
difficulties were found, he proposed to make only the Summary Report.
• Henk BODT reported a case of an ATB appointing another ATB in a host country where an ANB was
active. This is not explicitly mentioned in any OP-11.
It was explained that it is not possible for an ATB to authorise another ATB. Only ANBs can authorise
ATBs. Italo FERNANDES explained that Part 3 of document 001 says that the approval of courses is the
responsibility of the ANB in each country. This will be made more visible.
• Extension to Scope. Christian AHRENS raised the question how will be calculated the fee for an
extension to scope.
Tim JESSOP informed that LA and Pas must gather enough documentation to give confidence to award
preliminary authorisation and then to recommend full authorisation after the next available visit. No
special visit is made for an extension to scope.
Extension to scope, preliminary to full can be recommended to Group B without having to make an audit
or a visit to the ANB. That must be judged by the LA and PA
It was agreed to delete from the Rules: “The cost of assessments for extension of scope applications
shall also be charged at the agreed rates”.
• OP-12 – Payment of fee. Henk BODT referred that in OP-12 and in the Annex, the table giving the
distribution of fixed costs refers to “LA Organisation” and “PA Organisation”. Proposal was made to delete
the word “Organisation” twice in the OP-12 and twice in the OP-12 annex. The proposal was accepted.
• Preliminary Authorisation to Full Authorisation. The Assessors felt that it was not suitable to give
full authorisation to those ANBs that have not issued a diploma but it was also considered that it was not
correct to accept ANBs only having preliminary authorisation to issue diplomas. It was proposed that
Preliminary Authorisation does not include issuing of diplomas. Rute FERRAZ and Italo FERNANDES will
send to German HERNANDEZ a proposal on this issue of “Preliminary Authorisation to Full
Authorisation”.
• Role of Peer Assessors. Rute FERRAZ explained that there is a need to have an assessment team
in order to optimise costs, reduce the time, to use more the PA in an autonomous way, which means a
very good preparation of the assessors
The Assessors to work on this proposal to present at Group B. A small group was formed to work on a
proposal to present in Istambul: Henk (convenor)/Rute/German/Vaclav/Horia
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• Attendance of ANBs. Christian AHRENS questioned if it is correct that ANBs miss the IAB meetings
regularly. Conclusion was reached that those ANBs that are not attending the meetings are unaware of
the documentation.
The proposal is that after 2 meetings missed consecutively without excuse an additional surveillance
audit may be recommended by the LA. This will be proposed to Group B.
• ANBs and ANBCCs with systematic non compliance, how to handle?
For those ANBs/ANBCCs from which non-compliances are shown repetitively it is proposed that:
- Suspension of ANB/ANBCC activities;
- No more diplomas/certificates to be issued until the NC had been cleared;
- An additional follow-up audit
The Secretariat shall not deliver blank diplomas to the non-complying organisation.
• Documentation Transfer between LAs
The ANB shall send the Quality Manual and all existing reports to the second LA.
• Secretariat acting as LA (OP 02-6.1)
In OP-02 there is a statement that a minimum of one person from the Secretariat has to have a
competence of a Lead Assessor and that should be changed.
Rute FERRAZ explained that OP-02 should not be changed because it is important to ensure that in the
Secretariat there is a person that can act as Lead Assessor in case of necessity.
It was agreed to change in OP-02 the word “only”.
• QM for Re-Assessment how to proceed?
What to require when re-assessing ANBs and ANBCCs?
Proposal: 8 weeks before the planned assessment the QM should be made available to the LA including
the changes (in English) that shall be marked as such. Preferably in a readable digital format (PDF).
• Checking of quality of Education & Training
Proposal: The renewal audits shall include visits at ATBs during running courses. The ANB shall
demonstrate the check of quality of the courses.
• Access Criteria
Exchange of experience to be discussed later on.
• Distance Learning Audit for licensees
Audits for licensees are necessary. To bring again for discussion in the Group.
• More surveillance audits?
During the first five years of authorisation at the discretion of the audit team to decide if the surveillance is
in the 1 st year. The 2 nd year is mandatory
• LA acting as PA (continuing calibration)
Every 5 years each LA shall do an audit together with another LA.
• Waiver. When a surveillance audit may be waived?
Tim JESSOP informed that the guidance for LAs to accept surveillance audits waivers shall be as follows:
ANBs/ANBCCs that have been granted national accreditation for a scope of activities can request to have
a Surveillance audit waived if:
- The Accreditation Body is a recognized one: for example an EA member or an IAF member;
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- The accreditation certificate and associated scope document is provided to appointed LA and it is
clear that the accreditation is, or will be, valid at the time the Surveillance audit is due,
- The scope of accreditation must cover the scope of IIW authorization for which the waiver is sought,
- The recommendation of the LA for waiving the Surveillance audit is approved by IAB Group B.
• Students from non IAB countries
Defined in OP-11
10. Miscellaneous
Jim GUILD called the attention for the fact that there are no Assessors from outside Europe and
something must be done.
11. Close
Henk BODT closed the meeting informing that the next meeting will be organised by Rute FERRAZ and
Italo FERNANDES.
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