Briefing Kit1.pdf - Hinze Dam Stage 3

Hinze Dam Stage 3
COMMUNITY ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Briefing Kit

Hinze Dam Stage 3
Contents
1.0 Purpose 1
2.0 Background Information 1
2.1 History 1
2.2 Key Objectives 1
2.3 Map 2
2.4 Timeline 3
2.5 Alliance Members 4
2.6 Ongoing Technical Assessments 4
2.7 List of Hinze Dam Recreational Stakeholders 5
3.0 Community Advisory Committee (CAC) 6
3.1 CAC Member Profiles 6
3.2 Terms of Reference (attached)

Hinze Dam Stage 3
1.0 Purpose
The purpose of this briefing kit is to provide Community
Advisory Committee members with introductory information
about the Hinze Dam Stage 3 upgrade, and to inform
members about the current technical assessments being
undertaken and the timeframe of the project.
2.0 Background Information
2.1 History
Stage 1 of the Hinze Dam, completed in 1976, provided
storage capacity of 42,400 million litres, which was
increased to 161,070 million litres with the completion of
Stage 2 in 1989.
The preliminary concept Stage 3 upgrade will raise the
Hinze Dam embankment from 93.5 metres to 106 metres,
providing a total capacity of 286,500 million litres.
Tenders for the Hinze Dam Stage 3 project closed on August
22, 2006 with four consortiums bidding to be part of the
alliance tasked with delivering the project. On October 2,
2006, Mayor Ron Clarke announced that Thiess, Sinclair
Knight Merz (SKM) and URS would work with the Economic
Development and Major Projects Directorate and Gold Coast
Water in the delivery of this project. This alliance has now
been titled the Hinze Dam Alliance.
On November 8, 2006 a significant project declaration
was made under the State Development and Public Works
Organisation Act 1971. The Significant Project designation
reflects the fact that the project:
n
n
n
Has a strategic significance to the region;
Is characterised by complex approvals requirements; and
Meets one or more tests of environmental, economic
and / or social significance.
The key benefit under this designation is that the
Coordinator General will provide assistance to the project
proponent (GCCC) by facilitating all interactions with
interested and affected State Government agencies
during the approvals process. The project will require an
Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) under Part 4 of the
SDPWO Act.
2.2 Key Objectives
1. Flood Mitigation
Based on modelling carried out for the Nerang River Flood
Mitigation Advisory Committee, the upgrade will reduce the
potential flood damage from a 1 in 100 year event by 80%.
In December 2003 the Nerang River Flood Mitigation
Advisory Committee recommended that Council raise the
Hinze Dam wall as the preferred physical flood mitigation
option for the Nerang River Catchment. The flood
mitigation component of the upgrade will delay the release
of floodwater into the lower reaches of the floodplain by
raising the dam wall to temporarily store a greater volume
of water. The new dam design will also incorporate a new
spillway, designed to reduce the flow of water from the dam
during large rainfall events. By reducing the rate floodwater
is released from the dam, peak flood levels and damage in
the lower catchment can be reduced.
2. Water Supply
Based on the Gold Coast Waterfuture Strategy, the upgrade
will increase water supply to up to 24 million litres per day.
The Gold Coast population is estimated to reach around
1.2 million people by 2056. By this time the City will need
approximately 465 million litres of water per day. This level
of consumption will be approximately double that of today’s
population of 504,000. A diverse range of water sources is
required to best meet the city’s future water needs.
Raising the dam wall for additional water storage is a key
component of the Gold Coast Waterfuture Strategy (2006-
2056), a blueprint for sustaining the City’s water resources
over the next 50 years.
3. Compliance
The improved dam design will comply with new dam design
guidelines and standards that were amended in the Water
Act 2000.

SPILLWAY ROAD
BEECHMONT ROAD
LITTLE NERANG ROAD
Hinze Dam Stage 3
2.3 Map
SAN FERNANDO DRIVE
EVANITA DRIVE
WORONGARY ROAD
THE SPUR
HUGH GUINEA COURT
ARTHUR PAYNE COURT
HARRY MILLS DRIVE
INCLINE DRIVE
GLENAURA DRIVE
GLENROWAN DRIVE
CHARLES KURZ DRIVE
NANCY YAUN COURT
RANDOM WAY
UPLANDS COURT
LEISURE LANE
VINCE HINDE DRIVE
IMFELD COURT
COORUMBENE COURT
XANADU COURT
CORALCOAST DRIVE
THE PANORAMA
FOXTAIL COURT
UTOPIA COURT
VISCOUNT DRIVE
EARLE COURT
DUKE COURT
DUCHESS COURT
VERONICA DRIVE
OTIOSE COURT
TALLAI ROAD
RANGE ROAD
TOLHURST COURT
BAILEYS ROAD
GRANDVIEW TERRACE
STRIKE WAY
KERALA COURT
WALLANDRA ROAD
KAGOOLA DRIVE
BERRIGANS ROAD
RAYNER LANE
MARK WAY
JULIE WAY
PINETREE COURT
TARRANT DRIVE
GILWARD DRIVE
MANUKA ROAD
ROAD
ROAD
HORSESHOE DRIVE
TYALGUM STREET
WALLABY DRIVE
MONARO ROAD
JOHNS ROAD
BELMONT PARK DRIVE
SWANSON PLACE
LOWRY COURT
ROAD
AUSTINVILLE ROAD
BROMFIELD DRIVE
CAMP DRIVE
DUNBAR ROAD
ARAUCARIA LANE
ROAD
KNACK ROAD
STAGHORN DRIVE
DAVENPORT DRIVE
RED OAK DRIVE
ROAD
HINZE DAM
STAGE 3
SITE PLAN
Legend
Property Boundary
Roads
Full Supply Level
±
0 425 850 1,700
Meters
Scale - 1:20,000
(at A1)
Projection: MGA Zone 56
ROAD
TALLAI ROAD
MOUNT NIMMEL ROAD
ROAD
GILSTON ROAD
DUNCAN ROAD
TOULA COURT
ADVANCETOWN ROAD
ROAD
ROAD
NARROWLEAF ROAD
ROAD
ROAD
NARROWLEAF ROAD
ROAD
BRUSHBOX ROAD
NORTH ROAD
LOOP ROAD
NERANG MURWILLUMBAH ROAD
ROAD
CLOSED ROAD
TARLINGTON ROAD
MIRANI STREET
JARDINE ROAD
POCKET ROAD
CLOSED ROAD
ELIMBAH COURT
ROAD
ROAD
ROAD
ROAD
ROAD
ROAD
ROAD
I:\QENV\Projects\QE09395\Spatial\Arc_MXD\061114_Sitemap_MGA56_A1.mxd Produced: 15/11/2006

Hinze Dam Stage 3
2.4 Timeline
29 November 2006 CAC Meeting #1
n Outline Terms of Reference
n Background project information
November – December 2006
Geotechnical drilling for approximately 3 weeks
n Public notice in Gold Coast Bulletin Saturday, 4 November
6 December 2006 Dam design short-listed to three options
12 December 2006 (tentative) CAC Meeting #2
n Briefs of three preferred design options will be provided to CAC members for
feedback
n Discuss short-list of design options proposed by the design team
5 January 2006 Deadline for feedback from CAC Meeting #2 on shortlist of design options
16 January 2007 (tentative) CAC Meeting #3
19 January 2007 Preferred design option identified
March 2007 CAC Meeting #4
May 2007 CAC Meeting #5
n Deliberation on preferred design option and recreational planning
n If preferred option is not approved deliberations will continue (resulting in potential
overrun in time and cost)
n NOTE: Meetings to be scheduled every two months until construction commences
(unless requested otherwise)
June 2007
July 2007
January 2008
Target Outturn Cost (TOC) submitted to Council
Finalisation of Detailed Design to proceed upon approval of project TOC by Council
Construction to have commenced
TBA Project to be completed in accordance with Water Amendment Regulation (No. 6)
2006 timing requirement (31 December 2010).

Hinze Dam Stage 3
2.5 Alliance Members
The Hinze Dam Alliance comprises of Thiess, URS and
Sinclair Knight Merz (SKM), who are leaders in major water
infrastructure projects. This Alliance brings together the
unique skills and capabilities necessary to successfully deliver
this project.
What does the Alliance provide specifically?
Thiess brings a wealth of experience in project and financial
management and construction of major dams. SKM
and URS together provide a broad range of dam design,
engineering and geotechnical skills, approvals, community
and stakeholder engagement, and environmental and
recreational planning.
Have the Alliance members worked together
previously?
Thiess, URS and SKM have previously worked together as
an Alliance on both the Burnett River Dam in 2003 and the
Tugun Bypass in 2005-2006.
Thiess and URS have worked in partnerships for numerous
projects including the Burnett River Dam (2003), Matachina
Dam Upgrade (1997-1998), Lane Cove Tunnel (2003-2007),
ConnectEast Project (2004-2008), North-South Bypass
Tunnel (2005-2006) and Wilpinjong Coal Development
(2006).
Thiess and SKM have worked together in the Boggo Road
Busway Alliance (2005-2008), Inner Northern Busway
Alliance Stage 3 (2002-2004), Springwood Busway Station
Project (2002-2003), South East Transit Project Section 2
(1998-2000) and Cannington Port Project Alliance (1996-
1998).
SKM and URS have worked together on Cosseys Dam (New
Zealand, 2000-2003), Burnett River Dam Alliance Bid (2003),
Emu Swamp Dam (Stanthorpe Shire Council , ongoing) and
Gooyella Riverside Mine Expansion (2006-ongoing).
With this extensive history of collaboration, the members of
the Alliance are confident in their ability to work together to
deliver the Hinze Dam Stage 3 Upgrade.
What are the strengths of the Alliance?
The Alliance has a track record of on-time delivery of major
projects combining environmental outcomes with practical
solutions. This partnership will optimise its project solution
through innovation in dam design and engagement with
stakeholders and community groups.
2.6 Ongoing Technical Assessments
Dam Design
Concept designs for a broad range of options have been
developed and were presented to the Alliance team on
6 November 2006. The broad options have been further
developed through investigations into hydrology and
hydraulics, dam safety and risk assessment, embankment
design, spillway design, intake structure design and geology
and geotechnical investigations.
A public notice of geotechnical drilling appeared in the Gold
Coast Bulletin on Saturday, 4 November 2006. Works are
expected to commence on Wednesday, 22 November 2006,
continuing for approximately three weeks. The road across
the main embankment may need to be reduced to one lane
for 1-2 days during this time.
The results of these investigations are being used to select
three concept designs to be presented at CAC Meeting #2.
Environmental, Approvals and Recreational
Planning
The approval pathway has been confirmed with the granting
of the significant project status. An Environmental Impact
Statement (EIS) will be prepared. Investigations for the EIS
have commenced including assessment of the compensatory
habitat, fishway and recreational planning. A number of
other environmental approvals are required in conjunction
with the EIS.
Stakeholder Management
The Community Advisory Committee has been established
and will be involved in assessment of the three concept
designs, and implementation of the preferred design option.
Recreational stakeholders have been invited to attend two
workshops to assess the professional and casual recreational
opportunities at the dam site. The first workshop occurred
on the 17th of November 2006. The second workshop will
take place on the 6th of December 2006. A recreational
study is being conducted to examine the current and
potential future use of the dam and surrounding
environment. The first of these surveys was carried out on
12 November 2006.
Meetings with key stakeholders including Councillors, local
business operators, peak bodies and near neighbours are
continuing.

Hinze Dam Stage 3
2.7 List of Hinze Dam Recreational Stakeholders
State Government
n
n
n
n
n
EPA, Qld Parks and Wildlife
Great Walks
Office of Urban Management
Sport and Recreation Queensland
DPI – QLD Fisheries Service
Local Businesses
n
n
n
n
n
n
n
n
n
Cedar Lake Country Resort and Equestrian Centre
Koonjewarre Accommodation and Activity Centre
Rapid Action Canoes
Numinbah Valley Environmental Education Centre
Lex Fowell Camping
Synergy Applied Adventure
Sports Tuition
Paramount Adventure Centre
Gold Coast Tourism Visitor Centre
Recreational User Groups
n
n
n
n
n
n
n
n
Nerang River Canoe Club
Gold Coast Model Flying Club
Gold Coast Mountain Bike Club
Hinze Dam Fishing Club
Rotary Club Blue Fin Fishing Classic
Hash House Harriers
Australian Bass Tournaments
Synergy Applied Adventure
Others
n
n
n
n
n
Tamborine Mountain SHS - Cross country
Southport SHS Fun Run
Army Cadets
Higher Ground Australia
Qld Police Service and SES
Recreation Peak Bodies
n
n
n
n
n
n
n
n
n
n
Queensland Outdoor Recreation Federation
Queensland Canoeing
SunFish
Australian Bass Association
Scouts Association, Gold Coast
Rowing Queensland
Queensland Rogaine Association
Hinze Dam Fish Management Advisory Committee
Cycling Queensland
PCYC State office

Hinze Dam Stage 3
3.0 Community Advisory
Committee (CAC)
3.1 CAC Member Profiles
On 6 November 2006 Council approved the nominated
members of the Community Advisory Committee. Members
were selected based on their ability to represent their specific
interest group and ability to contribute to the committee
role.
Chair
Mr Jim Soorley
Mr Soorley was Lord Mayor of Brisbane from 1991 to 2003
focusing on the economic development strategy for the city
of Brisbane. Mr Soorley has a background in management
and community involvement. Prior to being Lord Mayor, Mr
Soorley was a management consultant advising businesses
on training, recruitment and organisational design.
Deputy Chair/Spokesperson
The Deputy Chair position is to be filled by a councillor
involved in Hinze Dam water supply and flood mitigation
issues. The CAC will nominate a Deputy Chair from the two
councillor nominations during the first CAC meeting.
Member position: Environmental interest group
Mr Rod Douglas
Mr Douglas was nominated and endorsed by Greening
Australia CEO Ms Pam Usher. Mr Douglas is the President
of Greening Australia Queensland board and the State’s
representative on the Greening Australia national board.
He is also a local resident with a personal interest in the
recreational facilities at Hinze Dam.
Member position: Environmental interest group
Mr Bardhold Blecken
Mr Blecken was nominated and endorsed by Ms Rose
Adams, Vice President of Gecko – Gold Coast and
Hinterland Environment Council. Mr Blecken is an executive
member of Gecko management committee, an executive
member of Natural Resource Management SEQ (NRMSEQ),
a finance and audit committee member of South East
Queensland Catchment, and a member of the Gold Coast
Water Resource Plan Community Reference Panel.
Member position: Catchment interest group
Mr Gordon French
Mr French was nominated and endorsed by Mr Peter Yaun,
Chair of Community for Sustainable Futures. Mr French
currently chairs the South East Queensland Catchments Ltd.,
the NHT and NAPSWQ body for South East Queensland. He
also chairs the Large Population Working Group dealing with
peri-urban studies, water catchments, water recycling, and
peri-urban biodiversity, and is secretary of the Nerang River
Advisory Committee. Mr French has authored two books on
water quality issues and is a local resident living in Numinbah
Valley.
Member position: Water quality technical
representative
Mr John Murtagh
Mr Murtagh has experience as a Research Scientist in
the field of climate variability and implications for water
supply. He is currently a consultant in the preparation of
developmental approvals for the reuse of recycled water
for both urban and agricultural situations. Mr Murtagh has
contributed to more than 100 schemes involving the use of
water balance modelling to size schemes based on the local
climate, flow rates, and nutrient and salt balances to assess
the potential impact on local soil and water.
Member position: Ratepayers Group/Combined
Chamber of Commerce
Mr Tom Rae
Mr Rae was nominated and endorsed by Ms Linda Brown
from the Ratepayers Association. He has a professional
engineering background with 20 years at senior
management level. Mr Rae has represented the community
with the Association of Independent Retirees on the General
Rate Community Consultation Group in 2003.
Member position: Community stakeholder
representative
Ms Jennifer Jones
Ms Jones is the current leaseholder of the Hinze Dam Tasty
Café. Ms Jones receives much feedback from the Hinze Dam
community and represents these ideas. Ms Jones can assist
in keeping the community accurately informed of the Stage
3 progress and decisions.

Hinze Dam Stage 3
Member position: Local area resident
Mr Ian Jeffers
Mr Jeffers was nominated and endorsed by Melinda
Osborne from Gold Coast Water, as secretary for the Hinze
Dam Fish Management Advisory Committee (HDFMAC).
Since 2002 Mr Jeffers has volunteered as the Chairman
of the Hinze Dam Fish Management Advisory Committee
(HDFMAC). Mr Jeffers has a strong passion for the Gold
Coast and Hinze Dam, along with extensive knowledge and
personal interest in the fishery and surrounding areas of
the dam. Mr Jeffers is now retired, having had a career as a
journalist with the Gold Coast Sun.
Member position: Other
Mr Roy MacArthur
Mr MacArthur was nominated and endorsed by Cr Daphne
McDonald. Mr MacArthur is a member of the Gold Coast
Waterfuture Committee and has 48 years experience in
design and construction of dams including 33 years with
State Government in dam, weir and pipeline design and
construction.
Member position: Other
Mr Peter Yaun
Member position: Councillor
Cr Daphne McDonald
Councillor Daphne McDonald represents Division 13
consisting the suburbs of Palm Beach, Elanora and parts
of Tallebudgera and Reedy Creek. Cr McDonald is Chair
of Council’s Water Sustainability Committee, a member of
South East Queensland Regional Water Quality Management
Committee, Chair of SouthROC Water Working Group,
Gold Coast WaterFuture Advisory Committee, Pimpama-
Coomera WaterFuture Advisory Committee and Coombabah
WaterFuture Advisory Committee.
Cr Ted Shepherd
Councillor Shepherd represents Division 9 including the
suburbs of Advancetown, Austinville, Bonogin, Gilston,
Highland Park, Lower Beechmont, Mudgeeraba, Natural
Bridge, Numinbah Valley, Reedy Creek, Springbrook, Tallai
and Worongary. Cr Shepherd is Chair of City Planning,
a member of Hinze Dam Fish Management, Strategic
Growth Management Committee, Mudgeeraba Chamber
of Commerce, Mudgeeraba Divisional Advisory Committee,
Numinbah Valley Residents Association, Springbrook
Chamber of Commerce, Springbrook Divisional Advisory
Committee and Springbrook Mountain Community
Association.
Mr Yaun was nominated and endorsed by June Pluthero,
Treasurer of Numinbah Valley Landcare Inc. Mr Yaun is
currently President of Communities for Sustainable Future,
Numinbah Valley Residents Association and Numinbah
Valley Landcare. Mr Yaun is a fourth generation dairy farmer
in Numinbah Valley and has served on many committees
including GCCC Recycled Water Strategy, GCCC Bushfire
Management Strategy Review, GCCC Environment Advisory
Board, DNR Community Reference Panel member for Draft
Water Legislation. He is also a recreational fisher of Hinze
Dam.

TERMS OF REFERENCE FOR
HINZE DAM STAGE 3 PROJECT
COMMUNITY ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Committee Name:
Hinze Dam Stage 3 Project Community Advisory Committee
Mission:
The purpose of this Committee is to facilitate effective and appropriate community and
stakeholder input into the Hinze Dam Stage 3 Project, and to provide recommendations to Council
on technical and policy issues related to the delivery of the project, where required.
Objectives of the Committee:
To provide:
A transparent, representative and accessible forum to address issues of community interest
related to the Hinze Dam project
An avenue for the release of information to the public on the project, including through
the nominated project spokesperson
To provide Council and the Alliance with interim recommendations and a final report on
issues of community interest related to the Hinze Dam project
To acknowledge the views of the Community
Scope:
The scope of the committee terms of reference is restricted to the Hinze Dam stage 3
project works
The committee is to consider issues and provide recommendations to Council on impacts
arising from the HDS3 project related to:
- Community amenity and recreational facilities
- The natural environment
- Social values and impacts
- Cultural heritage
The Committee may examine items of a technical or policy nature where referred by
Council
The committee may formulate recommendations for Council
Subject to the Councils Information Confidentiality Policy, the committee may request
information from Council officers or the Alliance
Studies or other works or services (such as the Environmental Impact Statement) will be
procured through the Alliance and provided to the Committee for consideration
The committee must have due regard to the timing and legal constraints of project
approvals and delivery
Deliverables:
Public meetings
Recommendations provided to Council
Final report to Council and the Alliance to be considered as part of the Environmental
Impact Assessment

Sunset/Review Period:
The Committee will be operating on an ongoing basis over approximately 12 months
through to commencement of construction works for the Hinze Dam Stage 3 Project
The Committee will be subject to review in June 2007
Board Structure and Membership
Ex officio:
Chair:
Project Spokesperson:
Members:
Quorum:
Secretariat:
Mayor
Independent chair to be appointed by Council
Spokesperson (and Deputy Chair) to be a Councillor nominated by
Council
Members shall be representative of the following groups:
Environmental interest or catchment group ……………… 3
Technical background (water) …………………………………… 1
Ratepayers group or chamber of commerce ……………… 1
Community stakeholder representative……………………… 2
Councillor …………………………………….……………………………… 3
Other ……………………………………………………………………………. 1
By majority vote. In the event of a split decision, the Chair shall
have the deciding vote
Administrative services and report compilation to be provided by
Council
Operational Guidelines
The Chairperson, through the secretariat, is to ensure regular reporting to the Alliance,
Council and relevant Council Advisory Committees on the HDS3 CAC proceedings and
relevant matters considered.
All Committee meetings must have an agenda and recorded minutes. Minutes are for
Committee reference purposes only and are not required to be provided to Council.
All meetings are to be open to the public, unless the chair determines that a closed session
is required.
Members are required to declare any actual or perceived conflict of interest.

Governance:
Convenor/Chair
Agenda Items:
The Chair shall convene Committee meetings.
If the designated Chair is not available, then an Acting Chair will be
nominated by the Committee and will be responsible for convening
and conducting that meeting. The Acting Chair is responsible for
informing the Chair as to the salient points/decisions raised or
agreed to at that meeting.
All Committee agenda items must be forwarded to the secretariat
by COB 10 working days prior to the next scheduled meeting.
The Committee agenda, with attached meeting papers will be
distributed at least 5 working days prior to the next scheduled
meeting.
The Chair has the right to refuse to list an item on the formal
agenda, but members may raise an item under “Other Business” if
necessary and as time permits.
Minutes and Meeting
Papers:
The minutes of each Committee meeting will be prepared by the
Secretariat.
Copies of the minutes (abbreviated minutes including items noted
and resolved, and voting results), shall be provided to all
Committee members no later than 10 working days following each
meeting.
Minutes are to be endorsed by the Committee at the subsequent
meeting
By agreement of the Committee, out-of-session decisions will be
deemed acceptable. Where agreed, all out-of-session decisions
shall be recorded in the minutes of the next scheduled Committee
meeting.
Minutes are to be provided to the Alliance.
Proxies:
Members of the Committee may nominate a proxy to attend a
meeting if the member is unable to attend.
The Chair will be informed of the substitution at least 3 working
days prior to the scheduled nominated meeting.
The nominated proxy shall not have voting rights at the attended
meeting. The nominated proxy may provide relevant
comments/feedback of the Committee member they are
representing, to the attended meeting.
Quorum
Requirements:
Dispute Resolution:
A minimum of 7 Committee members is required for the meeting to
be recognised as an authorised meeting for the recommendations or
resolutions to be valid.
If matters cannot be resolved, the matter may be referred to the
Alliance for further advice or action.

Roles and Responsibilities:
CAC Chair
CAC Members
EDMP / Alliance
The Chairperson of the CAC will:
Lead but not direct the Committee
Ensure there is fair discussion
Instigate debate amongst Committee members
Encourage all members of the CAC to present their views
Summarise discussions and points of view expressed
CAC members are expected to:
Be aware of the Terms of Reference and their individual roles and
responsibilities
Allow all members to present their views
Respect other members opinions
Attend meetings and participate in discussions
Report their views and those of the wider community to the CAC
Ensure all media enquiries related to the CAC are directed to the Gold
Coast City Council for comment.
EDMP representatives and the Alliance agree to:
Welcome suggestions and opinion from community and members of the
CAC in relation to the HDS3 project
Support the smooth operation of the CAC by providing administrative
support
Provide members with feedback on how their recommendations have
been considered
Report on Alliance activities and project progress, and seek feedback
from the CAC in a timely manner
Respond within agreed timeframes to requests for information
Help promote the CAC’s existence, objectives and meeting outcomes to
the community
Meeting Frequency
The Committee is to convene every four (4) weeks from the time of the inaugural meeting,
or otherwise as determined by the Committee quorum or requested by Council (or the
Alliance) to accommodate project timelines.
Information Confidentiality
In the course of its work, the board may be granted access to information that is not
available to the public (e.g. before the information becomes public). It is also possible
that some of the information made available to the Committee may, in accordance with
Council’s Information Confidentiality Policy, be classified confidential.