1815 - 1817 Scroll Book - Nine Incorporated Trades of Dundee

Guildry Sederunt Book
Volume Second
(1815 – 1817)
Mr Crichton moved that the following resolutions drawn up be the Committee be adopted by
this meeting-
1. That it is the opinion of the Guildry that the Nine Incorporated Trades have no other object
in view in the proceedings which they propose to adopt than the correction of existing abuses
within the Burgh relative to the letting and disposal of public property; a restoration of the
government of the Burgh to its original purity; and the resuscitation of the Guildry, whose
influence would co-operate powerfully in the prevention of abuses in future.
2. That to enable the Guildry as an Incorporation to unite effectually with the Nine Trades in
the proposed prosecution of the Magistrates and Council, it might be necessary to be first
restored to the full possession of its ancient rights and privileges. The Guildry therefore
cannot without farther deliberation join the Nine Trades as Pursuers of the Action.
3d. That were the Magistrates and Council without any more delay to correct the existing
abuses in the, management of letting of the public property to restore to the Guildry their own
funds and to obtain from the Convention of Boroughs their sanction to the undoubted right to
elect their dean by the suffrages of the Incorporation, and prosecution of the Magistrates and
Council or of any of the individual members of he Council for alleged malversation in office,
might in the opinion of this meeting be dropped because there would then be little chance of a
repetition of such abuses and because it would be most desireable that those discussions
which for some time past for the advancement of the public good have agitated the public
mind should cease with the actual existence of the veils complained of.
4. That the Guildry have been informed from authority that Mr John Crichton the Member of
Council who formerly moved and carried resolutions favourable to the rights of the Guildry
and to whom this Incorporation at a former meeting voted its heartfelt thanks is at the first
meeting of Council to move certain resolutions of the Toun Council on this subject, and
specially the immediate surrender of the Guildrys funds to the Dean of Guild elected by the
Guildry, and his assessors and Collector for behoof of the Guildry, this Incorporation shall
delay the farther consideration of the Trades Letter till the first Wednesday in December next
in the sanguine hope that the result of the deliberations of the first meeting of the Toun
Council shall answer the expectations of the Nine Trades and of the Guildry.
5. That as the Magistrates and Toun Council have already declared that the Guildry have an
undoubted right to the management of their own funds any delay now to put the
Incorporation in possession of that right can only be viewed as a breach of faith in the present
Magistrates and Toun Council, inconsistent with that honourable conduct which ought to
distinguish persons who hold the respectable offices of Magistrates & Counsellors in this
populous borough.
6. That David Jobson Esq. Counsellor to the Guild, whose admission into the Toun Council
the Guildry hail as an auspicious omen to this Incorporation be requested to move or second
in Council any motion favourable to the resuscitation of the rights of the Guildry, and that the
Dean of Guild and his assessors be appointed to intimate to Mr Jobson this request.
7. That David Jobson Esq., be also requested to move in Council, that the whole property
belonging to the common good, shall at the first term, be let by public roup; that the suspicion
attached to members of Council as occupying public property at an undervalue may be wiped
away; and their characters in this respect , be restored to that high respectability, among their
fellow Tounsmen to which their offices would otherways entitle them.
8. That these resolutions as well as the Letter of the Nine Trades to which the resolutions have
reference, be published in the Dundee Advertiser.
Mr John Peter seconded Mr Crichtons motion and the resolutions were passed unanimously.
Mr David Blair Junior said that the resolutions now passed were very proper yesterday in the
pacific prospect under which they were drawn up, but that the forcible exclusion this day of a
quiet and regular meeting of the Guildry from the hall in which they have been accustomed to
assemble put an end to every appearance of conciliation on the part of the Magistrates and
demonstrated the necessity of resorting to the Laws or the legislation of the country for
redress. He would therefore move certain resolutions to be acted upon in case the Magistrates
and Council shall fail to carry into execution against the time and in the manner specified in
the Committees resolutions, the former resolutions of the Council in favour of the Guildrie.
1

Mr Blair therefore moved the following resolutions:
1. To write cordially with the Trades in the prosecution of such individual members of the
Toun Council as appear to have abused their trust, and dilapidated the revenues of the Toun,
either by extra vagant and useless speculations or by holding public property below its real
value.
2. To raise a separate action un the Court of Session for rescuing the management of the
Guildrys funds our of the hands of men notoriously incompetent or suspected with strong
appearances of probability of systematically perverting the public revenues to their own
private emolument.
3. To apply to Parliament in conjunction with the Trades and other Inhabitants who think
proper to petition for such an alteration in the set or constitution of the Burgh, as may
effectually secure it in future from the oppression and misgovernment of which we now
complain.
Mr Ivory seconded the motion.
After some discussion in which it appeared to be the opinion of several members that Mr
Blair’s resolutions should only be acted upon in case the Guildry’s rights be not restored at he
meeting of the next Convention of Burghs. Mr Blair to prevent a division where unanimity was
so desirable, agreed to postponed the final decision upon his resolutions till next general
meeting of the Guildry to be held on the first Wednesday on December ensuing provided they
were in the mean time embodied in the published minutes.
This was unanimously approved to and the meeting after voting thanks Mr Jobson for his
conduct in the chair adjourned.
Dundee 4 th Decr 1815
Present
David Blair Jnr, David Miln, John Collier, James Keiller, Thomas Watt, Henry Blyth, Thomas
Smart, Thomas Ivory, John Peter, William Roberts, William Bisset
Mr Roberts preses
The Committee were unanimously of opinion that as by Provost Guilds Letter to Mr Jobson
Councillor to the Guild it appeared that a Council was to be called soon, it would be expedient
to delay calling a general meeting of the Guildry till after the first meting of the Toun Council
– and they directed the Clerk to intimate this resolution to the Convener of the Nine Trades
and to the Guildry.
Copy of Provost Guild’s letter referred to in the preceding minute
“David Jobson Esq & Convener Whittet &c. &c.
Gentlemen
Dundee 1 st Decr 1815
I was favoured with yours of the 29 th Unto. There are several matters of considerable
importance to the Toun, which are preparing to be laid before the first Council and I have
reason to believe will be ready soon. When they are I shall not delay a day in calling one and
give you previous notice.
I am
Gentlemen
Your most ob sert
(Signed) John Guild Provost.”
The Committee did not think it necessary to meet or to call a general meeting of the Guildry
until Provost Guild should make his promised communication. There was therefore no
meeting held from 4 December 1815 to 20 March 1816 when the Committee again assembled.
Dundee 20 March 1816
Present
William Roberts, Thomas Smart, John Peter, David Miln, William Bisset, John Blair Miller,
James Keiller, Henry Blyth, Thomas Ivory, John Sturrock, David Jobson
Mr Roberts pres
2

The Clerk of the committee paid before the meeting an extract of the Minutes of a meeting of
the Toun Council which had been put into his hands this day by Mr Thomas Davidson Depute
Toun Clerk as follows:
“At Dundee the 30 th Day of March in the year 1816 which day the Provost Magistrates and
remanent members of the Toun council of Dundee being met and convened in council
consulting about the ordinary affairs of the Burgh Mr David Blair, a merchant councillor,
moved that the Minute of the Council dated the 9 th day of August last, be read by the Clerk
which motion being seconded by Mr Isaac Watt also a Merchant Councillor. The minutes were
read accordingly. After which the said Mr David Blair represented, That it appeared to him
that these minutes made certain admissions and concessions in favour of the Guildry which
were quite unwarrantable, and referred to certain chartered rights that the Guildry were
supposed to possess which were not before Council, and which either never had any existence
or had gone entirely into desuetude and been departed from, for much more than a century be
past. That in his opinion the tendency of the resolutions contained in these minutes was to
unhinge the constitution of this Burgh, and throw every thing established by legal authority
and long tried expediency into anarchy and confusion and that the Councils agreeing to
concur with the Guildry or their Committee in adopting the measures mentioned in these
minutes was extremely unguarded and contrary to Law. That the opinion of Lawyers had been
obtained, on a memorial and queries for the Toun Council and Guildry in which were fully set
forth the chartered rights above alluded to; but the Lawyers did not consider these rights to be
entitled to any sort of regard or that any claim whatever could now be founded by the Guildry
upon them, the said Mr David Blair therefore farther moved; That the said Minutes of
Council, date the ninth day of August last be rescinded in toto; which motion being seconded
and voted in Council was carried and approved of unanimously, with the exception of Bailie
Crichton who declined voting; and the Council therefore rescinded the said acts of the 9 th
August last in toto accordingly. The council direct an extract of this minute to be transmitted
this day to the persons calling themselves the Guildry Committee and authorised the Toun
Clerk to give out the Extract accordingly.
Extracted upon this and the two preceding pages furth of the records of Council by
(signed) Thomas Davidson D.C.
The Committee resolved to call a general meeting of the Guildry for Wednesday the 27 th
current in the Exchange Coffee room at 12 o’clock noon – and in the meantime they directed
the Clerk to insert in the Dundee Newspaper the minutes of Council of the 9 th August last as
well as the Minute of this date.
The Committee directed Mr David Jobson Councillor to the dean to demand from the Toun
Council the Petition by the Guildry which had been presented by him to the Toun Council on
the 1 st day of January last with or without deliverance.
The Committee directed the Clerk to apply to the Convener of the Nine Trades for a perusal of
the Memorial which the Trades had laid before council (Counsel?) regarding the dilapidations
by the Magistrates and Council and the opinion obtained thereon.
The Committee directed the Clerk to send a printed Circular to each member of the Guildry
inviting them to attend the meeting on Wednesday next.
Dundee 26 March 1816
Present
Robert Jobson, William Lindsay, John Peter, William Bisset, Thomas Ivory, David Blair jun.,
John Sturrock, Henry Blyth, Thomas Watt, Thomas Smart, Arch. Crichton, James Saunders.
Robert Jobson in the Chair
The meeting unanimously agreed that certain resolutions shall be moved as the Resolutions of
the Committee at the general meeting tomorrow and a scroll of these having been considered
they appended thereof and appointed Mr Jobson to be the mover thereof:
The following transcription in italics follows, but has had a line through the whole pages concerned
3

1 st That an action of declarator shall be forthwith raised before the Court of Session in the
name of Robert Jobson Esquire Merchant in Dundee Dean of Guild elected by the Guildry
Incorporation, and of Messers William Bisset, John Watt, John Peter, Robert Thornton,
John Jobson, William Roberts, David Blair Junior, John Sturrock, Thomas Ivory, Thomas
Smart, Archibald Crichton and Alexander Whyte all Merchants in Dundee and assessors to
the dean elected by the said Guildry; William Ellet Merchant in Dundee Collector elected by
the Guildry and James Saunders Writer in Dundee Clerk elected by the Guildry for
themselves and in name and behalf of the said Incorporation by their original constitution
were and still are entitled to elect by the suffrages of the said Incorporation, the dean and
assessors, Collector and Clerk and generally every officer under the said Incorporation, and
it being so found and declared that the Guildry have right to elect their dean, assessors,
Collector, Clerk and other officers, that the said Dean of Guild and Assessors and Collector
and Clerk were on the 2d day of October last legally elected by the Guildry Incorporation
into their respective offices, and the Magistrates and Toun Council of Dundee who have
unwarrantably usurped those privileges shall be prohibited and discharged from exercising
the usurped powers in future that the Guildry may hereafter enjoy their natural and
constitutional rights and privileges without interruption.
2d That it shall be found and declared that the Guildry have the right to manage their own
funds and it being so found and declared that the Magistrates shall be decerned and
ordained to render a true account and reckoning to the dean and assessors elected by the
Guildry of their intromissions with the funds of the said Incorporation and to pay to the
Collector elected by the Guildry the balance which shall be found due to the said
Incorporation.
2d. That the Guildry Incorporation of Dundee having considered a memorial by the Nine
Trades of Dundee regarding certain alleged malversations in office by the Magistrates and
Toun Council or by certain individual members of that body with their consent and also the
opinion of Counsel obtained on said Memorial are of opinion that the civil action
recommended by Counsel should be instantly raised in name of the nine Trades, Guildry and
other Burgesses of the Burgh of Dundee against the Magistrates and Council as a body and
against the individual members against whom the accusation of malversation in office has
been made.
3. That if the Guildry Incorporation and Trades shall not obtain redress in the Courts of Law
in this Country a petition should thereafter be presented by the Trades, Guildry and other
Burgesses of the Burgh to Parliament praying for such an alteration of the Sett of the Burgh
as shall by the legislature appear to be just and necessary.
4. That a subscription be immediately entered into by the Incorporation to defray the
expences already incurred or that may be incurred in carrying these resolutions into effect.
5 th . That as the struggle to regain the rights and privileges of this Incorporation may last for
several years if the Magistrates and Council shall wantonly waste the public funds in
opposing the just claims of the Guildry it becomes necessary that some system be adopted to
replace any sums which may be drawn from the fund presently subscribed. Therefore the
meeting resolve that every Member of this Incorporation should contribute quarterly to the
fund such a sum as he can without Inconvenience pay.
6 th , That a Committee and a Treasurer be appointed to manage the Subscription Fund and
to give their aid in conducting the different processes against the Magistrates and Council
which Committee shall report to the Guildry Incorporation every three months the state of
the pending processes and the expence incurred.
At a meeting of the Guildry Incorporation of Dundee held at Dundee on the twenty seventh
day of March Eighteen hundred and sixteen within the Exchange Coffee room of Dundee at
twelve o’clock noon.
Robert Jobson Esq Dean of Guild elected by the Guildry in the Chair
4

The Clerk of the Guildry Committee having read to the Meeting the minutes of the last general
meeting and the subsequent minutes of the meetings of Committee. The Minute of the Town
council of the ninth August last and the Minutes of the Toun Council of the twentieth March
Current Robert Jobson Esq moved the following resolutions which had been unanimously
approven by the Committee.
That an action of declarator shall be forthwith raised before the Court of Session in the name
of Robert Jobson Esquire Merchant in Dundee Dean of Guild elected by the Guildry
Incorporation, and of Messers William Bisset, John Watt, John Peter, Robert Thornton, John
Jobson, William Roberts, David Blair Junior, John Sturrock, Thomas Ivory, Thomas Smart,
Archibald Crichton and Alexander Whyte all Merchants in Dundee and assessors to the dean
elected by the said Guildry; William Ellet Merchant in Dundee Collector elected by the Guildry
and James Saunders Writer in Dundee Clerk elected by the Guildry for themselves and in
name and behalf of the said Incorporation concluding:
First That it shall be found and declared that the said Guildry Incorporation by their original
constitution were and still are entitled to elect by the suffrages of the said Incorporation, the
dean and assessors Collector and Clerk and generally every officer in the said Incorporation,
and declared that the Guildry have right to elect their dean, assessors Collector Clerk and
other officers, that the said dean of Guild and assessors and Collector and Clerk were on the
second day of October last legally elected by the Guildry Incorporation into their respective
offices and the Magistrates and Toun council of Dundee who have unwarrantably usurped
those privileges shall be prohibited and discharged from exercising the usurped powers in
future, that the Guildry may hereafter enjoy their natural and constitutional rights and
privileges without interruption.
Second That it shall be found and declared that the Guildry have the right to manage their
own funds and it being so found and declared that the Magistrates shall be decerned and
ordained to render a true account and reckoning to the dean and assessors elected by the
Guildry of their intromissions with the funds of the said Incorporation and to pay to the
Collector elected by the Guildry the balance which shall be found due to the said
Incorporation.
2d. That the Guildry Incorporation of Dundee having considered a memorial by the Nine
Trades of Dundee regarding certain alleged malversations in office by the Magistrates and
Toun Council or by certain individual members of that body with their consent and also the
opinion of Counsel obtained on said Memorial are of opinion that the civil action
recommended by Counsel should be instantly raised in name of the nine Trades, Guildry and
other Burgesses of the Burgh of Dundee against the Magistrates and Council as a body and
against the individual members against whom the accusation of malversation in office has
been made.
3. That if the Guildry Incorporation and Trades shall not obtain redress in the Courts of Law
in this Country a petition should thereafter be presented by the Trades, Guildry and other
Burgesses of the Burgh to Parliament praying for such an alteration of the Sett of the Burgh as
shall by the legislature appear to be just and necessary.
4. That a subscription be immediately entered into by the Incorporation to defray the
expences already incurred or that may be incurred in carrying these resolutions into effect.
5 th . That as the struggle to regain the rights and privileges of this Incorporation may last for
several years if the Magistrates and Council shall wantonly waste the public funds in opposing
the just claims of the Guildry it becomes necessary that some system be adopted to replace
any sums which may be drawn from the fund presently subscribed. Therefore the meeting
resolve that every Member of this Incorporation should contribute quarterly to the fund such
a sum as he can without Inconvenience pay.
6 th , That a Committee and a Treasurer be appointed to manage the Subscription Fund and to
give their aid in conducting the different processes against the Magistrates and Council which
Committee shall report to the Guildry Incorporation every three months the state of the
pending processes and the expence incurred.
5

Captain Blair seconded the motion and the Resolutions were unanimously passed with this
recommendation from the meeting that the Committee to be appointed should use every
proper means to induce the Magistrates and Council to recall the resolutions of the twentieth
Current and to go hand in hand with the Guildry in order to regain for that Incorporation
their suspended rights and privileges, but that any negotiation with the Magistrates and
Council for that purpose should not be allowed to retard the legal proceedings mentioned in
this resolution.
The Meeting unanimously appointed the following members to be a Committee for the
purposes mentioned in the resolutions vizt:
Robert Jobson Esq., William Roberts Esq., David Blair Junior Esq., David Miln Esq., William
Lindsay Esq., John Sturrock Esq, John Peter Esq. And Wm Ellett & Mr Cathro.
The Meeting unanimously appointed William Ellet Esq., to be Treasurer of the Subscription
fund.
The meeting further recommended to the Committee that they should not institute the action
at Law until the opinions of eminent Counsel shall be obtained on Memorials stating the facts
of the case.
Dundee 2d April 1816
Present
William Roberts, John Sturrock, David Blair Jun., David Miln, William Ellet, John Peter
Mr Roberts Preses
Mr Miln moved that Mr Saunders should lay his accounts before the Committee at next
meeting. Mr Blair seconded the motion which was carried unanimously.
The Committee requested the preses to transmit to the Convener and deacons of the nine
Trades, the deacons of the three united Trades and to the deacon of the maltmen Copies of the
Resolutions of the last general meeting of the Guildry and to request them to procure
contributions from their respective bodies; also to request the Convener of the Nine Trades to
get a few members of the Trades elected to Act along with the Committee of the Guildry in
conducting the prosecution for malversation against the Magistrates.
The Committee ordered the resolutions of the last general meeting to be published in the
Dundee Advertiser.
The Committee agreed that Mr Roberts and Mr Jobson shall accompany Mr Ellet to get
collections on Wednesday first. Mt Blair and Mr Sturrock on Thursday and Mr Miln and Mr
Peter on Saturday. The Committee agreed that the Maltmen should be requested to send one
Member to act with the Committee in the process against the Magistrates.
To Convener Whittet
Dundee 3d April 1810
Sir
I am desired to acknowledge receipt of your Letter of the 16 th November last.
The Trades and he Guildry have only one object in view, namely to obtain such an opening in
the sett of this Burgh as may lead to a more honourable management of the Public revenue of
the Toun. Much has already been done by the exertions of the Trades and the Guildry, but
there can be no security that the Toun Council will persevere in abolishing existing abuses or
that they will not resort to the old mode of management unless the sett of the Burgh be
opened.
The Guildry were willing to believe that the Toun Council were sincere in their promise to
restore the privileges of the Guildry. This would have been one important step in the opening
of the Burgh and if a farther opening had afterwards been necessary the Toun Council might
have been induced as they became more liberal in their notions to grant any farther
reasonable request from the Trades or Guildry. This was the reason why the Guildry
Committee delayed for a time answering your letter which proposed immediate prosecution.
6

The Toun Council having unequivocally revoked these promises and shut the door against all
change in the present system there is no alternative but to seek redress in the Courts of Law
and Parliament. The preceding resolutions will explain to you the determination of the
Guildry on that subject. The Guildry Committee hope that the Nine Trades will appoint a
Committee to act along with them in the prosecution agt the Toun council for malversation
&c.
Copy
of a Letter sent to the nine Deacons with Copy Resolutions of Guildry Incorporation
Sir
Dundee 6 April 1816
Referring to a Letter which I have this day addressed to the Convener of the Nine Trades and
which he will communicate to you I beg leave to send a Copy of the Resolutions of the Guildry
and to request the aid of the (blank) Trade in defraying the expence of prosecuting the Toun
Council for malversation.
Dundee 14 May 1816
Present
Robert Jobson, William Roberts, David Blair Jun, John Peter, John Sturrock.
Mr Jobson Preses
There was laid before the meeting a letter from the Convener of the Committee of the Trades
as follows:
Dundee 14 th May 1816
Sir
I am directed by the Committee of the nine Trades to transmit to you the following minute of
their Meeting last night.
The Committee met on ye 13 th May and after considering the Guildrys resolutions appointed a
sub Committee to meet with the sub committee of the Guildry to communicate from time to
time with the Committee and to take on decisive steps without consulting the general
Committee. The sub Committee consist of:
Convener Whittet
Convener Mitchell
Deacon Ivory
Deacon Thomson &
Robert Mudie
(Signed) John Whittet Jun.
Will you lay this minute before the Guildry at their first meeting?
The Committee directed the Clerk to intimate to the Trades Committee that they will meet
them on Monday night the 20 Current at 7 o’clock in the ante room of the exchange Coffee
room.
As the Committee were directed by the general meeting of the Guildry to commune with the
Magistrates before raising the action for recovery of the rights of the Guildry they directed the
preses to transmit to the Provost the following Letter:
Dundee 14 th May 1816
Before the Guildry Committee commence legal proceedings to regain the suspended rights of
that Incorporation they direct me to request that you will call a meeting of the Toun Council to
reconsider the claims of the Guildry that the Magistrates may have an opportunity of
rescinding their resolutions of the 20 th March last and returning to the more just and
honourable resolutions of the 9 th August preceding. It is needless to say that the Toun Council
in conceding to the Guildry their rights would consult both the peace and prosperity of the
Toun. If any answer is to be returned to this Letter I shall expect to receive it between and the
21 st Current.
Dundee 20 May 1816
Present
7

John Whittet Jun., Robert Jobson, Thomas Ivory, James Mitchell, Patrick Thomson, David
Blair Jun., William Roberts, David Miln, William Ellet.
The Trades Committee having withdrawn the Clerk laid before the meeting a Memorial for the
Guildry of Perth with the opinions of Messers Cranstoun and Jeffrey.
As these eminent Counsel concur in the opinion obtained for the Guildry of Dundee that the
Court of Session could not legally restore to the Guildry the right of electing their dean by the
suffrages of the Incorporation because a different practice has been followed for more than
forty years the Committee determined not to include that privilege in the action of Declarator.
But as by the opinions of Messers Cranstoun and Jeffrey for the Perth Guildry it appears that
the Guildry Incorporation have right to manage their own funds whatever may have been the
former practice. The Committee directed the Clerk to prepare a Summons of declarator to
regain that right and to lay the same before the Committee.
Dundee 29 th May 1816
Present
Robert Jobson, William Lindsay, William Roberts, David Miln, David Blair Jun., John
Sturrock.
Mr Jobson preses
The Clerk of the Committee laid before the Meeting the following Summons of declarator to
obtain the management of their own funds. The Committee directed the Clerk to lay the
Summons before Counsel to be revised and to get it executed without delay.
(here take an printed Summons)
The Committee agree to employ Messers Gibson Christie and Wardlaw as their agents to
conduct the action and to recommend to the agents to employ Messers Cranstoun and Jeffrey
as Senior Counsel and Mr Jamieson as Junior Counsel.
Dundee 12 July 1816
Present
Robert Jobson, William Ellet, William Roberts, John Peter, David Miln, David Blair Jun.
Mr Jobson preses
The Committee read the Memorial of the subject of the Malversations of the Magistrates and
suggested some alterations. The Committee directed the Clerk to arrange a Meeting with the
Trades Committee to raise the Memorial along with this Committee.
The Committee are of opinion that a deputation from the Trades Committee and this
committee should wait on the Magistrates and endeavour to compromise the disputes
between the public and them.
The Clerk stated to the Committee that he does not hold them liable in payment of his
accounts but depends entirely on the public subscription.
The Meeting ordered the Treasurer to pay to the Clerk One hundred and fifty pounds to
account of the expences hitherto incurred.
Dundee 18 Sept 1816
Present
Rob Jobson, John Sturrock, David Miln, David Jobson, Thomas Smart, James Keiller, John
Peter, Thomas Ivory, Thomas Watt.
Mr Jobson preses
The Committee directed the Clerk to prepare a letter to be addressed to the Provost on the
subject of the election of the Dean – and appointed Messers Miln, Sturrock and Ivory to revise
the letter previous to its being submitted to the Committee tomorrow evening.
8

The Committee desired the following advertisement regarding the election of the dean of
Guild &c and the Commissions for improving the Harbour to be inserted in the Dundee
Advertiser.
To the Guildry of Dundee
Gentlemen
On Wednesday the 2d day of October next at 12 o’clock noon within the Guild hall to exercise
your ancient right of electing the Dean of Guild the assessors and collector and clerk, and on
Wednesday the 9 th day of said month of October at the same place and hour, to elect five
Commissioners for improving the harbour of Dundee in terms of the Act of Parliament.
Dundee 19 th Sept 1816
Present
Rob Jobson, David Miln, David Blair Jun, Archd Crichton, John Peter, Thomas Ivory, Thomas
Watt, James Saunders.
The following letter drawn up and revised by the sub Committee was approven of and
appointed to be signed by all the Members of the Committee and transmitted by the Preses to
the Provost.
Sir
The Guildry Committee deems it to be its duty to its constituents to address the Toun Council
on the subject of the claims of the Guildry Incorporation previous to the approaching election
of the Magistrates and Council.
Two years have nearly elapsed since the claims of the Guildry Incorporation were first
agitated, and the enthusiasm of its members to regain their rights and privileges remains
unabated. After the publication in time 1815 of the printed report on the subject of the
Guildrys claims, the Committee intimated to the Toun Council that the Guildry Incorporation
had resumed its ancient right and privilege of electing the Dean, assessors, Clerk, collector
and officer. Aware that an Incorporation of such high respectability ought not to remain in its
present degraded state, a member of the Toun Council moved that they should concur with
the Guildry in adopting such measures as shall be found requisite to ensure to the Guildry the
right of electing the Dean. The motion was seconded and was about to be unanimously passed
when an objection was stated vizt: that the Convener and Deacons had not received the
instructions of their Trades in regard to the proposed change. An adjourned meeting of the
Council was thereupon called, when the Convener and Deacons did by instruction of their
respective Trades voted unanimously with the Council on favour of the Guildry.
At a subsequent Meeting of the Toun Council at which the Trades were not present the
resolutions in favour of the Guildry were rescinded in toto. But the committee submits that it
was irregular in the Toun Council to rescind the former resolutions without the advice and
consent of the Trades who had been very properly called to vote on that occasion. The
committee is therefore of opinion that the resolutions of the 9 th August still remain in force.
But though the Act of Council rescinding the resolutions of the 9 th of August were regular, the
Committee apprehended that the Toun Council acted under a misapprehension that the
Convention of Burghs would refuse to sanction any change of the sett of the Burgh and that
the Toun Council in consequence of the late proceedings in the case of the burgh of Montrose
will now be disposed to revert to the resolutions of 9 th August, and to grant the prayer of the
petitions presented to them by the Guildry and Trades in January last.
The Committee begs leave to remind the Toun council that an application from the Burgh of
Montrose for a more extensive sett of that Burgh than that sought by the Guildry was
unanimously granted by the Convention of Burghs, and that of course the Commissioners and
assessor from Dundee voted for the measure. The committee would therefore ask the Toun
Council whether the Guildry of Dundee are not entitled to the same indulgence at their hands;
especially after the Toun Council with the advice and consent of the Trades have already
declared that the demands of the Guildry are just and expedient.
The Committee has directed Robert Jobson Esquire to call a Meeting of the Guildry to be held
in the Guild hall on Wednesday the 2d day of October next, to elect a Dean of Guild for the
following year as well as the assessors and officers. It is probable that the Guildry would elect
as their dean, a Gentleman not a member of the Toun Council. Of however the Toun Council
were to propose to the Committee that the Guildry should elect to be dean the same
9

Gentleman whom the Council shall have previously elected, and that in consequence of that
concession on the part of the Guildry the Toun Council would along with the Trades and
Guildry present an application to the next convention of Burghs to restore to that respectable
Incorporation the right of electing their dean the committee would strongly recommend to the
general meeting of the Guildry to agree to the proposal.
The objects which the Guildry Committee have in view in making this communication is as
well to obtain justice to its constituents as to quiet any doubt or apprehension which the Toun
Council might have about the legality of electing any other person to be dean than an old
bailie.
The Committee expects a favourable answer will be returned to this letter in as much as it
would restore harmony to the Toun and render all proceedings at law unnecessary.
In token of the unanimity of the committee on the subject the Committee subscribe
themselves.
Your most ob hum Ser.
Dundee 1 Oct 1816
Present
David Blair Jun, Thomas Ivory, John Sturrock, Thomas Watt, Thomas Smart, William
Roberts, David Miln, John Peter.
Mr Thomas Watt Preses
At a general meeting of the Guildry is to be held tomorrow, and as on a former occasion the
Incorporation has been excluded from their hall by the Magistrates, the Committee appointed
Messers William Roberts and David Blair Junior a sub committee to wait immediately on
Provost Riddoch to ascertain whether the Guildry are to have the use of their hall tomorrow.
The Committee recommend to the sub Committee also to intimate to provost Riddoch that the
expect that the Petitions from the Guildry and Trades which were laid before a meeting of the
Toun Council on the 1 st of January last shall be taken into consideration on the first head
Court and that the prayers of those Petitions should be either granted or the petitions
returned to Mr Jobson and Mr Whittet the Gentlemen who presented them.
Messers Roberts & Blair having returned, they reported that Provost Riddoch had informed
them that the Toun Council had this day resolved not to admit the Guildry into the Guild hall
tomorrow.
The Committee directed the Clerk to obtain the use of the ancient operative lodge and to
circulate handbills this afternoon to inform the members of the Guildry of the place of
meeting.
At a Meeting of the Guildry Incorporation of Dundee held on the second day of October
Eighteen hundred and sixteen, within the Ancient Operative lodge; in consequence of the
Magistrates and Toun council of Dundee having intimated their determination to prevent the
Guildry from assembling in their own hall
John Jobson Esq of Rosemount was called to the chair, in absence of Robert Jobson Esq who
was elected Dean of Guild by this Incorporation at the last election.
The Meeting were about to proceed to elect a Dean, Assessors, Collector and Clerk for the year
ensuing when Mr Alexander Christie Writer in Dundee appeared with two witnesses and
intimated that he held in his hand a bill of Suspension at the instance of the Magistrates and
Toun Council of Dundee, on which the Lord Ordinary on the bills had in the meantime
granted an interdict prohibiting and discharging the Guildry from electing a Dean of Guild,
Assessors, Collector and Clerk.
At the desire of the Meeting Mr Christie read the bill of Suspension and the Interlocutor off
the Lord Ordinary.
The Meeting thereupon unanimously adopted the following resolutions.
1. That the Meeting having heard read to them the interdict against their proceeding to the
election of a dean, assessors, Collector and Clerk, are determined to do nothing which could
10

e construed into a contempt of the authority of the Supreme Court; and do therefore declare
themselves to be a meeting of the individual members of the Guildry Incorporation.
2. That the proceedings of the Magistrates in applying for and obtaining this sist, after they
had pledged themselves to restore the rights of the Guildry, render it more indispensable than
ever that the members of the Guildry should meet and deliberate on the proper measures to
be taken for obtaining a restoration of their privileges and opposing the incroachments of the
Magistrates.
3. That the Meeting do not wish in face of the present interdict to interfere with the judicial or
political duties of the dean of Guild elected by the Magistrates, but the are unanimously of
opinion, that they have an undoubted right to constitute themselves into an assembly
independent of that dean and for purposes unconnected with his functions.
4 th . That for this purpose the Meeting unanimously resolve to elect a chairman for the year
ensuing to convene and preside at all General Meetings to be held by them as individual
members of the Guildry Incorporation; and to assist him in obtaining a restoration of the
privileges of the Guildry, and in conducting any prosecutions which the Guildry and Trade
may think necessary to institute against the Magistrates & Council.
William Roberts Esq Banker in Dundee then moved that Robert Jobson Esq be elected
chairman of the Guildry meetings for the ensuing year.
John Sturrock Merchant seconded the motion which was carried unanimously.
The Meeting then unanimously elected the following Gentlemen to be a Committee for the
purposes before mentioned:
Mr David Jobson
Mr William Roberts
Mr John Croom
Mr David Miln
Mr John Sturrock
Mr David Blair Junr
Mr Thomas Mitchell
Mr William Bisset
Mr Henry Blyth
Mr John Peter
Mr Thomas Ivory
Mr Henry Bell
Mr William Ellet
Mr Archibald Crichton
Mr James Keiller
Mr Thomas Watt
Mr Andrew Garland
Mr Thomas Neish Junr
Mr John Watt
Mr James Duncan Junr
Mr James Scott
Seven of whom constitute a quorum.
The Meeting elected Mr William Ellet to be Treasurer and Mr James Saunders to be Clerk.
David Blair Junior Esq moved the following resolutions:
1. That the Guildry and other burgesses of the Burgh of Dundee are by statute law, as well as
by the practice of all well regulated burghs, entitled to attend the different head Courts held
within the burgh of Dundee and to inspect the accounts of charge and discharge of the
revenue of the burgh for the year preceding previous to those accounts being transmitted to
the Exchequer.
11

2. Hat the Chairman of the Guildry meetings, and the Committee elected this day,
accompanied by as many members as may chuse to attend, shall go to the head Court on
Monday next, to inspect the said Accots for the year preceding.
These resolutions were unanimously agreed to.
John Sturrock stated that it was equally necessary that the Members of the Guildry should see
and examine that accounts more immediately connected with the Incorporation, and he
therefore moved the following resolutions which was immediately agreed to.
That while the Magistrates and Council maintain violent possession of the funds of the
Guildry Incorporation, it will be proper to demand and obtain an annual inspection of the
accounts of charge and discharge of those funds.
The Meeting unanimously voted thanks to Robert Jobson Esq. for his public spirited conduct
while he held the office of Dean of Guild, elected by the Incorporation.
The Meeting unanimously voted thanks to William Ellet for his exertions as Treasurer to the
Committee.
The Meeting unanimously voted thanks to the Office bearers of the ancient operative lodge for
the handsome manner which they gave to the Guildry the use of their lodge for the meeting
this day.
The Preses having withdrawn, the Meeting unanimously voted their thanks to him, for his
impartial and spirited conduce in the chair.
At a meeting of the Guildry Incorporation of Dundee held on Wednesday the 9 th October 1816
Present
Patrick Anderson Esq dean of Guild appointed by the Magistrates & Council in the chair.
Messers William Roberts, John Sturrock, George Clark, John Peter, William Lindsay, Thomas
Nish Junior, John Jobson, David Miln, John Gray, Alexander Balfour, David Martin, David
Brown, Thomas Smart, James Smith, Thomas Watt, William Taylor, James Chalmers, James
Crockat, William Hood, Andrew Garland, William Ellet, Robert Jobson, David Cobb, John
Croom, Joseph Johnstone, James Ivory, James Nicol Junior, James Doig, Edward Baxter,
James Peat, Robert Gowans, David How Junior, William Bell Senior, David Nicol, William
Kermack, George Baxter, Peter Thomson, James Lindsay, Alexander Petrie, Walter Thomson,
John Duff Senior, George Nicol Youngest, Patrick Smith, William Low, Robert Stirling,
Provost Riddoch, James Brown, Patrick Whyte, Alexander Edward Junior, Alexander
Farquharson, Archibald Crichton, Robert Thornton, James Webster, Mungo Shepherd,
William Chalmers, John Tod, William Ogilvie, James Brough, James Ford, George Brown,
Edward Lesslie, Henry Blyth, William Bisset, James Butchart, James Adam, Patrick Gardiner,
William Nicol, William Crawford, George Stephen, Alexander Lawson, William Bell Junior,
Gilbert Pirie, John Davidson, Robert Adamson, John Hutchison, James Smith, David Pope,
Alexander Kay, Thomas Reid, Charles Rodger, Lyon Alexander, William Bisset Druggist,
Walker Saunders, Bailie Thoms, Thomas Hunter, Henry Tullo, John Mackay, Thomas
Robertson, David Blair Junior, David Jobson, Provost Guild, John Gibson, Thomas Davidson,
William Chalmers, David Blair of Cookston, Alexander Guild, Bailie Whitson, Robert
Mackintosh, George Miln, William Rodger, John Watt, James Gray, Thomas Mitchell, James
Campbell, Alexander Whyte, David Auchterlony, James Duncan Junior, Henry Bell, Kinnaird
Brown, Thomas Neish, Thomas Dick, Robert Torbet, William Cochrane, Thomas Drummond,
Alexander Robb, George Rough, Walter Newal. John Tod, James Keillor, William Neish,
Thomas Rattray corn merchant, Thomas Malcolm, Thomas Kidd, David Hackney, John
Banks, James Soot, Thomas Rattray tobacconist, Robert Ramsay, Alexander Kay, Alexander
Stewart, Charles Brown, James Brown, James Aberdeen, David Coupar, George Baxter,
William How, Robert Farquharson, William Mudie, James Stewart, Alexander Bell, David
Smart, John Blair Miller, James Saunders Tobacconist.
[152 Members]
David Blair Junior, seconded by William Roberts protested “That altho’ by the interdict lately
obtained by the Magistrates, against he Guildry proceeding to elect their own Dean, and
likewise against their holding any meetings for the election of Harbour Commissioners except
12

these meetings have been convened by the Magistrates and Council, we are compelled in a
manner to acknowledge Mr Patrick Anderson as their only regular Dean of Guild – yet in
order to maintain the privileges of the Guildry so far as in our power, to show our strong
disapprobation of the measures so improperly adopted by the Magistrates, and to hand down
to posterity our firm determination to resist every incroachment on our rights, we protest
against Mr Patrick Anderson officiating at this meeting in the capacity of Dean of Guild; for
the following reasons:
1 st Because by the Law of the land, as well as by the terms of the different Charters erecting the
Guildry into a corporation, it is the undoubted right of the brethren of the Guild to elect their
own Dean. Whereas Mr Patrick Anderson has been forced upon us by the act of the
Magistrates, and the operation of an interdict of he Court of Session obtained by surprise and
in consequence of the most improper and unwarrantable representations.
2d. Because, by the terms of the Harbour statute it is not declared necessary that the dean of
Guild shall preside in the election of the harbour Commissioners; and because on such
election, therefore the Guildry would have been fully intitled (but for the foresaid interdict
irregularly and illegally obtained as it was) to elect their own Chairman.
3. Because so far back as the 9 th Augt 1815, the Provost, Magistrates, Trades and remanent
members of the Toun Council in full convention assembled pledged themselves by certain
resolutions solemnly adopted to give up to the Guildry the election of their own Dean, and
most cheerfully to concur in every measure necessary for the purpose; and because under
these resolutions, the Guildry even had their rights not been supported at common law must
necessarily have been entitled to the free election of their own Dean. And altho’ the
Magistrates and Toun Council by themselves alone, and without calling a full convention of
Council, or even giving any intimation of their intention, did afterwards pretend to rescind,
the foresaid resolutions of the 9 th August at a meeting on the 20 March last, yet the
proceedings of this Meeting so far as regarded the Guildrys choise of their own Dean were
altogether void; in as much as it is not competent for a meeting of the lesser Council to repeal
the measures of a full convention and still farther inasmuch as the said lesser council have no
right whatever to deliberate or to vote on any matters connected with the set of he Burgh;
which however the question as to the dean of Guilds election clearly was.
4. Because in these circumstances any application by the Magistrates and council or either of
them for an interdict against the proceedings of the Guildry being in the face of the foresaid
resolutions of the 9 th August (which resolutions have never been validly repeated) was not
only a gross breach of faith with the Guildry, but was likewise in itself highly illegal, and
altogether unwarranted,,,,, and tho’ its consequences must in the meantime, and under the
restraint of a higher power be calmly submitted to, yet there seems no doubt but that
complete redress will in the long run be obtained.
5. Because the foresaid application for an interdict against the Guildry was not even
authorised by an ordinary meeting of Council but was the simple act of a few private
individuals, whose interested views are known to every one, and whose zeal for the public
good is unfortunately more than questionable. In these circumstances therefore it was even
still more illegal than if it had been sanctioned by the lesser Council; and it would be a
palpable sacrifice of the rights of he Guildry to sanction even in appearance so grow a piece of
oppression unsupported as it is by all public authority.”
The protest was signed in the course of the day by almost every member of the Guildry.
Mr William Roberts the moved the following resolutions; which was seconded by Mr William
Lindsay.
1 st . That the Guildry being this day regularly convened their meeting sanctioned by the
Magistrates, Dean of Guild and their existence as a Corporation formally acknowledged by the
act of Parliament under which they have been called together,, they are entitled to resume all
their functions as a deliberating body.
This resolution being put to he vote “approve” or “disapprove” there voted disapprove
Patrick Anderson Dean of Guild
Thomas Davidson Depute Toun Clerk
13

Alexander Balfour Merchant
David Martin Merchant Councillor
Bailie Brown
James Smith Merchant Councillor
Walter Thomson Auctioneer
Provost Riddoch
David Blair of Cookston Counsellor to the Guild appointed by the
Magistrates
James Gray Merchant Councillor
Kinnaird Brown Trades Councillor
William Rodger Writer
Bailie Whitson
Provost Guild
The following members declined to vote
Bailie Thoms
George Rough Trades Counsellor
David Cobb Writer
And there voted for the motion all the other members of the Guildry present at the Meeting
2. That in doing this they do not act in contempt or contravention of the interdict lately
obtained from the Court of Session, inasmuch as they have no intention to interfere either
with the political, magisterial or judicial functions of the Magistrates, Dean of Guild until that
interdict shall be finally disposed of.
3. That as a deliberative body, and acknowledged as such by act of Parliament, the Guildry
have a right to regulate their own proceedings; to enact by-laws for that purpose, and in
general to pursue all measures which to the majority of their members, shall seem expedient.
That the Dean whether he be of heir own election or the choice of the Magistrates, has right
only to one deliberative vote – excepting in such cases as in a division of the Incorporation,
there shall be an equality of votes, when he shall likewise have a casting vote.
4. That it is of the essence of every corporation and consequently of the Guildry that the power
of convening meetings and of adjourning them from time to time should be properly
regulated; and in this view it is necessary that such regulations be now enacted by the Guildry.
The Second third and fourth resolutions were carried by the same votes as the first and
opposed by the same votes as the first.
5. That the Dean of Guild shall at all times be intitled to call a meeting of the Corporation; and
upon written requisition from any six or more of the individual members, he shall be bound to
do so; And Farther in case of his refusal, it shall be in the power of the members signing the
requisition to Convene the meeting themselves, either by direct advertisement, bearing their
own names, or thro’ the medium of the Clerk to the Corporation.
Mr James Smith Senior a member of the Toun Council, having proposed an amendment vizt:
That the words “twenty” should be adopted in place of “six” – and Mr David Martin also a
Toun Councillor having signified his approval of the amendment the resolution as amended
was put and carried in the same manner as the preceding resolutions; with this exception that
the said James Smith, David Martin and David Cobb also voted for the resolutions.
6 th That besides these occasional meetings there shall be four stated meetings called on the
second Monday of January, April, July and October, each year; and of these the Clerk of the
Corporation shall be bound without authority from the dean to give regular notice by previous
public advertisement.
7. That no meeting of the Guildry shall be dissolved but by the vote of its members; nor shall
the dean by himself have any right to dismiss a meeting. But a majority of the members
14

present shall, at all times, be intitled to dismiss or to adjourn, or so appoint farther meetings
as they shall judge to be necessary.
8. That until the result of the question now under dependence be ascertained, the Magistrates
Dean shall preside at all meetings of the Corporation; but in case of his absence or refusal to
attend, or of his leaving the chair before the business of the day be regularly brought to a
close, the proceedings of the meeting shall in no wise be affected; but the members present
shall be entitled to choose one of their number as chairman.
9. That the Guildry tho’ at present, as the conceive illegally deprived of their funds are entitled
to incur obligations affecting the same, and so far as they can exercise this power without
interfering with the question of interdict under dependence, they are determined to do so.
10. That the Guildry cannot acknowledge the Magistrates and Toun Council as assessors to the
Guild; but as they are at present interdicted from interfering with them, they shall not, in the
meantime dispute their powers of acting in the same manner as they have latterly been
accustomed to act. But as from the present revival of the Guildrys meetings as a Corporation,
there must now be many proceedings not within the sphere of these Magistrates Assessors
usual routine, the Guildry conceive, that with regard to all these, they are entitled to have a
Committee of their own choice; and they do accordingly nominate as a Committee the
following persons vizt:
Patrick Anderson Esq D. G.
Mr David Jobson
Mr William Roberts
Mr John Croom
Mr David Miln
Mr John Sturrock
Mr Dad Blair Jun
Mr Thomas Mitchell
Mr William Bisset
Mr Henry Blyth
Mr John Peter
Mr Thomas Ivory
Mr Henry Bell
Mr William Ellet
Mr Archd Crichton
Mr James Keiller
Mr Thomas Watt
Mr Andw Garland
Mr John Watt
Mr James Duncan Jun
Mr James Soot
Mr William Lindsay
Mr Edward Baxter
Deacon of Maltmen
Mr James Saunders Clerk &
Convener Robert Jobson Esq Preses in absence of the Dean of Guild
Seven of the Committee to create a quorum.
11 th That the Guildry being determined to follow for the proceedings against the Magistrates
for the purpose of finally securing a full restoration of all their privileges do hereby again
sanction the prosecution lately raised by them under Mr Robert Jobson the Dean of their own
election, and empower the above named Committee to pursue it to an issue. And they do also
not only authorise the same committee, but entreat of them to use every exertion in their
power for the complete attainment of the Guildrys rights and franchise, in every advisable
way; And farther for defraying the expence of all such proceedings, they hereby declare the
proper funds of the Corporation to be liable; but that only in so far a such a declaration may
not be inconsistent with the question of interdict now in dependence, and in so far as the
Guildry may hereafter be found entitled to regain possession of these funds.
15

12. That the Guildry are highly indebted to Robert Jobson Esq late dean of their own choice to
the members of last years Committee, for their unwearied exertions in the cause of the
Corporation: And they request these Gentlemen to accept the sincere thanks of the meting..
13. That these resolutions be regularly minuted not only in the proper minute book of the
Guildry, but also in a separate book to be kept by Mr Saunders as Clerk and Convener of the
Committee of all the proceedings of the Guildry not requiring the sanction of the Magistrates,
and that they be published in the Dundee, Perth and Cupar Advertiser.
The sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth 11 th , 12 th & thirteenth resolutions were approven of by
every member of the Guildry excepting the fourteen members who voted against the first
resolution. Mr Rough and Mr Cobb declined voting.
Bailie Thoms now objected to the whole proceedings; on the ground that there had not been
sufficient time allowed to consider the resolutions.
Mr James Ivory to obviate the objections of those who complained of the precipitancy of the
measure moved “That as several Individuals of this meeting have voted against the resolutions
solely on the ground that sufficient time had not been afforded, the Meeting shall be
adjourned till this day fortnight at twelve o’clock noon; when the Guildry shall again meet in
this hall, for the purpose of reconsidering the resolutions now approved of. But then, if, in the
mean time any steps shall be taken by any person or persons whereby the Guildry may be
prevented from then meeting on this day fortnight, that the resolutions of this day shall,
notwithstanding, subsist and be effectual to all intents and purposes until properly repealed
by a regular vote of the Corporation”.
Mr Roberts seconded the motion; which was carried; none objecting, except the fourteen
members who voted against the other resolutions.
The Incorporation next proceeded to the election of five of their number to be Commissioners
for the ensuing year, under the Act of Parliament for improving the Harbour of Dundee.
As formerly twenty members were put in nomination as Candidates; And the Meeting having
dispensed with the form of balloting for hem proceeded to ballot for five out of the twenty.
Messers William Roberts, David Miln, Robert Stirling, and Archibald Crichton were
unanimously appointed Tellers.
The balloting being closed and the votes reported, the Dean of Guild declared that Messers
David Blair Jun, Robert Jobson, William Bisset, John Peter and John Sturrock, were duly
elected.
Mr David Blair Junior moved the thanks of the Meeting to the Dean of Guild for his impartial
conduct in the chair during the latter part of the proceedings. This was unanimously carried.
The thanks of the Meeting were then moved to Mr William Roberts for the powerful aid which
he has afforded to his Guild brethren this day, in pleading so manfully and eloquently the
cause in which they were all so deeply interested. This motion was passed unanimously with
loud applause.
Dundee 15 th October 1816
Present
Messers David Blair Jun., David Miln, James Keiller, John Croom. Henry Bell. Edward
Baxter, Arch Crichton, Thomas Mitchell, William Lindsay, William Roberts, Thomas Nish Jr,
Henry Blyth, James Duncan Jur, Thomas Watt, James Soot, Andw Garland, William Ellet,
Thomas Ivory, John Sturrock, William Bisset, James Saunders.
Mr Roberts Preses.
It was unanimously agreed that James Ivory Esq. Advocate should be retained as an
additional Junior Counsel in the cause presently depending before the Court of Session
against the Magistrates.
16

The Meeting appointed Messers William Roberts, William Lindsay, David Miln and John
Sturrock a sub Committee to wait on Mr Patrick Anderson the Dean of Guild to request that
he intimate in the public papers that the Guildry Incorporation are to hold their adjourned
Meeting on Wednesday 23d Current in the Guild hall at 12 o’clock noon to reconsider the
resolutions passed at the last meeting of the Incorporation. The sub Committee to report on
Thursday evening at 7 o’clock.
Dundee 16 October 1816
Present
21 Members
The Clerk stated to the meeting that John Baxter Esq of Idvies and Alexander Reid Esq
Merchant in Dundee had this day waited upon him and stated that they were a deputation
from a body of Gentlemen who were anxious to restore peace and harmony to the Toun of
Dundee by becoming mediators in the dispute between the Magistrates and Council and the
Guildry Incorporation; and that they would gladly meet a Sub Committee of the Guildry to
ascertain the nature and extent of the Guildrys claims. The Committee always willing to enter
into an amicable arrangement with the Magistrates and Council appointed Messers William
Roberts, William Lindsay, David Milln and John Sturrock as a sub Committee (Mr Roberts to
be preses) to meet with Mr Baxter and the other Gentlemen with instructions to state to them
that the Guildry claim the unqualified election by the suffrages of the Incorporation of the
dean of Guild, who shall be ex officio a member of the Toun council, the election of Assessors,
Collector, Clerk and officer and the management of their own funds and to that end:
1 st That the Magistrates and Council shall allow the Guildry at their first meeting to elect
assessors to the dean, also the Collector, Clerk and Officer, because these officers form no part
of the sett of the Burgh, but are the officers of the Guildry as a separate Independent
Incorporation.
2d. That Mr Anderson and the assessors so elected shall have the exclusive management of
the funds under the directions of general meetings of the Guildry and for that purpose the
Magistrates and Council shall deliver to Mr Anderson and the assessors the Guildry accounts,
vouchers and Bonds.
3d That the Guildry shall henceforth be entitled to meet in their own hall and to enact by- laws
not affecting the political or judicial functions of the present dean.
4 th That the Magistrates and Council shall prepare and subscribe a petition to the Convention
of Burghs praying that that body will sanction to the Guildry Incorporation the election of
their dean of Guild who shall be ex officio a member of the Toun Council and that the sett of
the burgh be altered accordingly.
5 th . That this petition along with petitions from the Guildry and Nine Incorporated Trades
praying for the said alteration in the set of the Burgh be deposited in the hands of Mr Baxter
and the other Gentlemen who mediate between the parties, and to remain in their possession
until the annual meeting of the Convention of Burghs.
6h That a Gentleman to be named by the Mediators shall be appointed by the Toun Council as
assessor to the Commissioners who may be nominated by them to attend the next meeting of
the convention in order to state to the convention the Guildrys claims.
Dundee 17 Oct 1816
Present
22 members
Messers Roberts, Lindsay, Sturrock & Miln reported that they had on Wednesday waited on
the dean of Guild who had taken till today to return an answer whether he would call the
adjourned meeting of the Guildry on Wednesday next or whether the Magistrates would allow
17

the Guildry to assemble in their Hall in absence of the Dean. And that Mr Anderson had this
day sent the following letter to Mr Roberts:
Dear Sir,
It is certainly painful for me to refuse complying with your wishes and those of the other
Gentlemen who do me the honour of calling yesterday, but having fully considered your
application I must under the present circumstances decline calling a meeting of the Guildry
for next Wednesday, and having consulted the Magistrates they direct me to say that they
cannot grant the use of the hall for that day.
The Committee were of opinion that as mediation has been proposed it will be proper to
postpone for the present the meeting of rhe Guidry and they directed the preses to insert the
following letter addressed to the Guildry in the Dundee Advertiser.
“To the Guildry of Dundee
Gentlemen
For reason which will be explained to the Guildry at their first meeting it is unnecessary to
hold the adjourned meeting of the Incorporation on Wednesday next.”
Dundee 27 November 1816
Present
17 members
Mr Roberts preses
Mr Roberts reported to the Committee the following notes regarding the negotiations between
the Committee and the Magistrates:
The following entry in italics has a single line struck through it implying that it was not intended to be transcribed
into the formal minute.
Oct 10. It is generally rumoured that a few gentlemen who have not interfered in the Guidry
dispute are associating themselves for the purpose of acting as mediators between the
Guildry and Magistrates.
These gentlemen announced themselves to Mr Saunders. They are Messers John Baxter,
Robert Miller, Thomas Bell, Alexander Reid, William Baxter and William Small, and they
wish an interview with a few of the Committee of the Guildry.
Mr Saunders calls a meeting of the Committee of the Guildry who immediately appoint
Messers Lindsay, Sturrock, Mill and Roberts as a Sub Committee to meet these Gentlemen.
Mr Roberts to be preses of the said Sub Committee.
These Gentlemen meet accordingly: Mr John Baxter opened the business by saying that he
and the Gentlemen who had associated themselves on the present occasion, had witnessed
with much concern the agitation of the Toun regarding alleged claim which the Guildry had
to certain privileges of which they were denied the exercise by the Magistrates and
considering themselves as having no wise interfered in the discussion they had come to offer
themselves as Mediators between the disputing parties, and they should feel most happy if
they could be instrumental in restoring peace and harmony in the Toun. They begged it to be
understood that they acted on public grounds alone and had had no communication directly
or indirectly with the Magistrates, and he now wished the Sub committee of the Guildry
would explain the extent of their wishes. Mr Roberts here said on the part of the sub
Committee of the Guildry that they should most cordially accept the Gentlemen as Mediators
and if the Magistrates were disposed to do the same the sub committee of the Guildry would
state to them their instructions from the general Committee and in the meantime he begged
to assure the Gentlemen Mediators that the Sub committee would cordially unite in
obtaining the object for which the had associated themselves.
Mr Roberts had a communication from the Mediators that they had waited on Provost
Riddoch, and that the Provost had received them most graciously, and after having heard
the object of their calling him thanked them in the most liberal terms for coming forward to
endeavour to affect so obvious a good as restoring peace and harmony in the Toun, and
spoke freely to them of the proper Court it would be best to apply, either to the privy Council
or Convention of Burghs to get the proposed alterations sanctioned and finally appointed a
18

meeting in the Toun hall of the Sub committee of the Guildry, the Gentlemen the Mediators
and he and some of the Magistrates would attend it to talk over the matter.
At this Meeting were Provost Riddoch, Mr David Blair, Mr P. Anderson, Dr Crichton, Mr
Peddie, Mr Thomas, all Magistrates, Mr John Baxter, Mr Reid, Mr Bell, Mr Miller, Mr Small,
and Mr William Baxter. Messers Roberts, Lindsay, Sturrock and Miln the sub committee of
the Guildry.
Mr R. Miller said the Gentlemen with whom I am acting have much pleasure in seeing the
Magistrates and Guildry together and trusts from the good temper and moderation be had
discovered that the object of he Meeting would be obtained and that the differences between
the Magistrates and Guildry would be adjusted.
Mt Roberts then said Gentlemen, Mediators the Guildry so justice to the motions which have
induced you to come forward on the present occasion to act as Mediators between them and
the Magistrates and I am instructed to say that the Sub committee have instructions from
their constituents to second your endeavour to adjust the present unhappy differences
between the Guildry and Magistrates in an amicable manner, if the Gentlemen the
deputation from the Toun Council are actuated by similar sentiments the I conceive our
negotiations no wise difficult. All being anxious to see peace restored in the Toun that object
will soon be obtained.
Gentlemen the deputation of the Toun Council you know what we ask, we demand nothing,
we ask Gentlemen the election of our dean, assessors and officers the uncontrolled
management of our funds as an independent Corporation, in short gentlemen was ask you,
we pray you to carry into execution your resolutions of the 9 th August 1815. why these
resolutions were not carried into effect I will not enquire being confident no good could
result to the cause of the Guildry from such enquiry: but I assure you gentlemen the Guildry
take their full share of blame that they were rescinded, in our discussions gentlemen, let us
therefore every thing that has passed, let me entreat you to do so and consider us here as
applicants convinced at last that no procedure of your own can give us the right of electing
our dean unless the Magistrates join us in our application to the Convention of Burghs for
that purpose. Of our Funds we may and indeed have a very different opinion we are advised
that we can recover them by an action at Law, but gentlemen it will be much more grateful
to our feelings to receive them from the hands of the Magistrates than from the decision of a
higher Court. This is all we have to say Gentlemen, we ask you must admit nothing but what
the Magistrates can with honour grant, and being granted peace and good will is restored to
the Toun.
Provost Riddoch here said he wished it to be understood that they were no deputation from
the Toun Council – he and his friends came there as Individuals and not as Magistrates.
Here some discussion took place with Mr Peddie how the Guildry were to state what they
wanted, whether in writing or here, and he concluded by insisting that it should be stated in
writing; but it was observed by Mr Small that since Mr Peddie and his friends were not a
deputation from the Toun Council it would be premature in the Guildry to come under any
pledge- what he would recommend therefore was, that what had passed should be laid
before the Toun council and a deputation from that body be appointed to meet the Guildry
and then all would be on the same footing.
Mr Roberts said notwithstanding Mr Smalls observation that the Guildry would state their
claims in writing if the Gentlemen present who were Magistrates would recommend such
claims to the Toun council, but this was declined – they would not pledge themselves to any
thing. –
After much vague talk Provost Riddoch at last suggested that Mr Roberts should meet Mr
Anderson to talk over the matters and arrange how the Guildry cause should be brought
before the Toun Council. – Mr Roberts met Mr Anderson that evening with whom he had
much conversation. – It was at last agreed that Mr Anderson should state the prayer of the
Guildry to the Toun Council at its first meeting. The substance of that prayer was to be to the
Magistrates to carry into execution their resolutions of the 9 th August 1815. – Mr Cook hoped
for Mr Andersons support to which he replied that as an Individual he wished well to the
Guildry cause – but he could not pledge himself as a Magistrate to any specific line of
Conduct. –
Saturday: Mr Anderson waited on Mr Roberts and said that there had been no meeting of
the Toun council, and he wished to mention that tho’ there had been no meeting the subject
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had by no means been forgot by the Magistrates, and that it was his first and last thought as
an Individual he hoped that here would be a meeting early in the week.
Monday: Mr Roberts called on Mr Anderson to know what had been done, to which he
replied that there had been no meeting of the Toun Council which he regretted exceedingly,
and as he began to feel the delicacy of his situation he had determined to wash his hands of
the business unless the Magistrates gave him an early opportunity of discharging the duty
he had undertaken by assembling the Toun Council , Mr Roberts urged very strongly to Mr
Anderson the propriety of coming to a speedy determination and said that Provost Riddoch
had done him the honour of naming with him, Mr Anderson in a manner that left an
impression on the minds of most present that an answer would be given to the prayer by the
magistrates in a few days now a fortnight had elapsed.
Mr Roberts having communicated the substance of the preceding conversation to the sub
Committee they were of opinion that it would be proper to convene the mediators and
inform them the state of the negotiations which was accordingly done on Wednesday
following and Mr Roberts thus addressed them.
Gentlemen – the sub Committee have thought it their duty to assemble you for the purpose of
acquainting you in an official manner of the situation in which the negotiation with the
Magistrates at present stands, you will recollect Gentlemen at the Meeting which took place
in the Toun Hall that after some discussion as to the proper mode of bringing our prayer
before the Toun council Provost Riddoch suggested that I should meet Mr Anderson to
converse the matter over and I accordingly did meet him that same evening, and he
undertook to lay the matter before the Toun Council at its first meeting and I am bound to
say what passed left an impression on my mind that Mr Anderson then expected an early
meeting of the Toun Council – now Gentlemen more than a fortnight having elapsed I called
in Mr Anderson on Monday to enquire what had been done and if nothing, if he expected an
early meeting of the Toun Council, to which he answered that no meeting had yet taken
place nor did he know when there would be a meeting, and that he had felt it necessary to
mention to the Magistrates that he would wash his hands of the business if they did not give
him an early opportunity of laying the prayer of the Guildry before them in Council. –
Gentlemen I should regret that the negotiation with the Magistrates devolved to other hands
than Mr Anderson who is personally (tho’ as a Magistrate he gives no opinion) friendly to
the cause, from an apprehension that if Mr Anderson should be disappointed of an early
meeting of the Toun Council he may resign the part he had undertaken. I have thought it
right therefore to assemble you for your advice.
The result of the consultation was that Mr Roberts was to wait on Mr Anderson, and entreat
that he should not have an opportunity even until the Wednesday following still to keep the
business in his hands and his complying therewith would be most agreeable to the Sub
Committee.
Mr Anderson agreed and added that he would not resign what he had undertaken without
informing Mr Roberts.
On the 11 th received from Mr Anderson the Note No 1 to which he sent in answer No 2.
Nov 14 Messers Roberts and Mill waited on Mr Small and stated to him that several of the
Magistrates had been heard to express sentiments hostile to the prayer of the Guildry, they
called on him therefore to assemble the Mediators in order that some proceeding might be
adopted to bring the negotiation to a close.
Nov 19 In consequence of this request it would appear Mr Small assembled the Mediators on
Saturday and Mr Baxter was appointed by them to wait on Provost Riddoch to know from
him if any thing had been done to bring the negotiation between the Guildry and the
Magistrates to a close.
That evening the Mediators intimated their desire to meet the sub Committee at Merchants 8
o’clock.
At this Meeting the Mediators except, Mr Robert Millar, and the Sub committee attended
when Mr Baxter communicated to the Gentlemen that he had waited on Provost Riddoch
and a great deal of conversation had passed between them the whole of which it was
unnecessary to repeat, but he substance was that he as chief Magistrate considered himself
as Trustee of one year only and he was determined to resist the prayer of the Guildry and
20

hand down to his successors in office the power of Magistrates as he found them. – he
considered that the Magistrates would not be justified in acceding to the change proposed by
the Guildry, as in his mind the Convention of Burghs before whom it was proposed to bring
the Matter had no power to sanction such change, that such a change would be legally
brought about by application to Parliament or the privie Council only. – At the same time he
was but one of the Magistracy, but that he would assemble the Toun Council and let them
judge for themselves, he himself being determined to remain neutral at the discussion.
Mr Baxter than asked him when he would call a Council to which he replied that he did not
know when it might suit the Gentlemen to meet in council as they were very busy about their
own affairs. The Mediators then mentioned their regret that the negotiation had taken so
unpromising a turn, and that tho’ the considered Provost Riddoch’s answer as official they
would still recommend to Mr Roberts as Preses of the Sub committee to write a note to Mr
Anderson that if no meeting of the Council took place by Monday the 25 Inst that Mr Roberts
was to consider the negotiation at an end which Mr Roberts complied with in the following
note No 3.
Thursday: This morning Mr Miln called on Mr Roberts and stated that he had heard the
Action for the funds had been called on the 12 th Inst notwithstanding the assurances the Sub
Committee had given Mr Anderson in their note to him of the same date that it would not -
Mr Roberts waited on Mr Saunders to know if that was the case, but Mr Saunders had
received no advice: however on enquiring it was found to be so, and Mr Roberts considering
that he was bound to give Mr Anderson a clear explanation how it had arisen in order to
free the Sub Committee from blame Mr Saunders gave him in about an hour after, the
statement contained in the Letter to him – No 4.
On Mr Roberts leaving Mr Saunders he heard that a Toun Council has been summoned to
meet in about half an hour and fearing he might not receive Mr Saunders written
explanation he called on Mr Anderson and accounted to him how the mistake of calling the
action had occurred and Mr Anderson very handsomely declared he had not suspected the
Sub committee of being privy, and that he would state the whole explanation I had given
him to the Toun Council..
In about an hour afterwards Mr Anderson wrote Mr Roberts the Note No 5.
Mr Roberts having heard that Provost Riddoch had dilated a good deal in the Council
regarding the action being called in face of a written pledge that it should not be so by the
Sub Committee Mr Roberts immediately waited on Mr Anderson and showed him the
written explanation which he having read, Mr Roberts then said, Mr Anderson will you
allow me to put two questions to you.
1 st Will you candidly tell me if to your opinion that the Mistake of calling the action for the
funds had any influence in bringing the Magistrates to the resolution which you have just
communicated to me. – Mr Anderson after a little hesitation said it was his opinion it has
had no influence on the Magistrates.
2dly. Mr Roberts then put his second question. As you note Mr Anderson in its concluding
sentence seems to separate the funds from the general claims of the Guidry do you think if
we can satisfy the Magistrates that the action has been called by mistake, they would
negotiate with us on that point? Mr Anderson said he really believed the door was shut
against all farther negotiation.
Copy Letter referred to in the foregoing Notes:
No 1.
Dear Sir, I am sorry that I have not yet any communication to make from the Magistrates. It
however occurs to me that tomorrow is the day when the action about the funds ought to be
called, and I think you hinted the other day that it would not be proceeded in at present in
hope that the Magistrates would accede to your wishes. Now I should be apprehensive that if
the Magistrates should not comply with you request it might be said that they only wished
delay in order to get the business another reason put off. I therefore hope you will excuse me
for giving you this hint, that you may take such steps as you may think proper, so that I may
be kept clear of blame in thus business &c.
11 November 1816 Signed Patk Anderson.
21

No 2
Dear Sir
I have your note of yesterday’s date for which I thank you, having anticipated from our last
conversation that no council would be held last week I convened the Sub committee of the
Guildry to take their opinion as to the propriety of calling the action for the funds during the
present negotiation and they were unanimously of opinion that the postponement of it
would be highly proper. I do assure you that the Guildry entered into this negotiation with a
proper temper and feeling, and the Sub Committee would most willingly persuade
themselves that the Magistrates were actuated by a similar spirit of conciliation, and that
when the cause does come before them it will be discussed on its own merits without the
smallest possible control of any action at present pending.
&c.
Tuesday morning 12 Nov 1816.
No 3.
Dear Sir
You mentioned at the beginning of last week that you hoped in the course of it there would be
a Meeting of the Toun Council before which you might lay the prayers of the Guildry, but
presuming that no such meeting has taken place, and having no channel thro’ which I could
learn when that event may happen may I entreat that you will be good enough to represent
to the Magistrates that I have called on you for an answer which I now do by Monday the
25 th Instant, and that should I not get on by that time I shall be bound to consider the
negotiation at an end.
I am &c (Signed) W. Roberts – Wednesday 20 Nov 1816
No 4.
Dear Sir
On the 18 October last I sent the summons at the instance of the Guildry against the
Magistrates and Council to Messers Gibson, Christie and Wardlaw.
I mentioned that there was a negotiation pending between the Magistrates and Guildry
which would in all probability render it unnecessary to call the summons.
It was the understanding of the Guildry Committee that the Summons should not be called
for a few weeks until it was seen whether the matter could be amicably arranged. – I ought
to have written to out Agents not to call the summons but it occurred to me that from the
tenour of my last letter to them they would not have called it till farther instructions.
I am very sorry that the circumstance of the summons having been called on the 12
November should have exposed you to any accusation by the Toun Council negotiators. –
Had I been one of the Guildry negotiators I might have been with some propriety blamed,
because in the conversation with the Toun Council Negotiators it would have been more
strongly impressed on my mind that I should write to the agents not to call the Summons. –
From the determination of the Sub Committee not to call the Summons preceding the
negotiations your letter to Mr Anderson of the 12 Current was most correct, and the error of
the Summons being called in the face of that letter rests entirely with me and the Agent in
Edinburgh.
This explanation I have no doubt will satisfy Mr Anderson that no blame is attached to you
or the Guildry Committee.
I am &c Signed James Saunders.
No 5.
Dundee 21 November 1816
Dear Sir
There was a Meeting of the Toun council this day when I fully stated the request which you
desired me to make for the Guildry and after considering their claims I am directed by the
Council to say that they cannot comply with them – The action about the funds having been
called in Court upon the 12 Inst and defences ordered to be given in on Saturday first the
Council appointed a Committee to attend to the Process.
I am &c Patk Anderson
22

The Committee resolved to publish those proceedings for the information of the Guildry and
they appointed the Sub Committee to prepare them for publication along with the Clerk.
The Committee unanimously voted their thanks to the Mediators and to the Sub committee
for their conduct on the negotiation and appointed this vote to be added to the report by the
Clerk.
The Committee appointed the Sub Committee to prepare a memorial relative to an action of
malversation to be laid before the Committee and they added Messers David Blair Junr, John
Peter, Thomas Ivory, William Ellet and James Saunders to the Sub Committee. – The same
committee to attend the conduct of the action depending for the funds and to report from time
to time.
The motion of declarator was in the meantime called in Court and carried on with vigour and
as the Committee left this matter to the Law agents they had no occasion to meet for some
time.
At a General Meeting of the Guildry Incorporation of Dundee held within the Ancient
Operative Lodge on Wednesday the 19 th day of February Current at twelve o’clock noon in
consequence of a public requisition by twenty one members of the Incorporation:
Mr Robert Jobson as permanent Preses of the Guildry took the Chair
Mr Jobson stated that this Meeting had been called for the purpose of voting the address to
the Prince Regent; and he hoped no gentleman would bring forward any business
unconnected with the object for which the Meeting had been called.
Mr Roberts concurred with Mr Jobson in the propriety of not discussing subjects foreign to
the purpose of the Meeting; and he hoped that the resolutions he was about to propose would
not be considered irrelevant for they related to an obstruction which it had been attempted to
throw in the way of the Guildrys now assembling. Mr Anderson the Dean of Guild appointed
by the Magistrates having declined to assemble the Incorporation in terms of the requisition.
– Mr Roberts had intimated to the Dean that it was his intention to move at the Meeting a
vote of censure upon his conduct and he might defend himself either personally or by writing.
– In consequence of this motion Mr Anderson had addressed to them the following letter.
William Roberts Esquire
Dear Sir
Mr Collier called this forenoon, and stated that you had requested him to intimate to me, that
at a Meeting to be held tomorrow it is intended to make a vote of censure upon me for
refusing to comply with the requisition which you and some other Gentlemen sent to me last
week. For this information I beg you will accept of my thanks. Although it would certainly be
very gratifying to me, were my conduct as a public man to meet with the approbation of my
fellow citizens, yet I trust that neither the desire of praise nor the dread of censure will ever
make me to act otherwise than what I consider to be my duty. No man can approve more
highly than I do of addressing the Prince Regent upon the present occasion. But in the
requisition which I received (the one published in last weeks “Advertiser” is not a copy of it)
The Gentlemen who subscribed it styled themselves members of the Guildry Incorporation.
Now you know that the Toun Council plead in their Defences to the action presently
depending regarding the management of the Guildry fund that there is no Guildry
Incorporation in Dundee.
Whether this is a good defence or not I do not pretend to say; but at all events had I convened
the Guild Brethren in terms of the requisition I would have considered myself as having
comprehended the plea of the Toun Council by admitting what they deny; and I am confirmed
in this by the opinion of the Counsel employed by the Toun in that Process. This was my
reason for declining to comply with the requisition; and I hope you will have the goodness to
communicate it to the Meeting.
I am Dear Sir
Your most obed Sert
Dundee Febry 1817 (signed) Pat Anderson
23

After reading this letter Mr Roberts declared that in proposing the resolutions which he was
about to move, he was not actuated by any personal animosity towards Mr Anderson as an
individual; but that his object was merely to reprobate the conduct of the Dean of Guild, who
had most improperly refused to assemble the Incorporation to vote an address to the Prince
Regent: and had also by the manner of his refusal, made himself a tool of party in the
conspiracy carried on by Mr Riddoch and two or three others against the rights and the very
existence of the Guildry.
Mr Roberts then moved that the following resolutions be adopted by the Meeting:
1 st That as Mr Anderson acknowledges himself in he letter just read, to be leagued with
Provost Riddoch and his junto in the Toun Council in a project to deprive the Guildry
Incorporation of existence in defiance of an act of Parliament which acknowledges them to be
such – and as he gives his countenance to all the efforts made by that party to degrade & vilify
this Incorporation in which are included all the Merchants in Dundee and nearly all the more
reputable members of the Community, we cannot consider him a willing instrument made use
of on the present occasion to prevent the expression of our loyalty to the representative of our
Venerable King.
2d That Mr Anderson, as Dean thus shews that he possesses no common sentiment with the
Guildry; that he has no claim to their confidence; and that he merits no other return from
them than their utmost reprehension.
Captain Blair seconded the motion; and the resolutions were unanimously adopted by the
Meeting.
Mr Lindsay then stated that as there could be but one opinion of the daring outrage which had
been committed on his Royal Highness the Prince Regent, he would without farther preface
move that the following Address be adopted by the Guildry and subscribed by every Member
of the Incorporation who might approve of the measure.
To His Royal Highness George Prince of Wales, Regent of the United Kingdom
May it please you Royal Highness – We, his Majesty’s most dutiful and loyal subjects, the
Members of the Guildry Incorporation of the ancient Royal Borough of Dundee, grateful for
the many blessings which we enjoyed under the mild sway of the Monstrous house of
Brunswick, humbly beg leave to approach your Royal Highness, to express our attachment to
your Royal person to his Majesty’s Government, and to the venerable failure of the British
Constitution; and to declare our abhorrence and detestation of the conduct of those wicked
and deluded people who lately committed the gross outrage on your sacred person, when
returning from the exercise of the most important branch of the royal functions the opening of
the Session of Parliament.
Mt John Jobson seconded the motion: which was carried unanimously.
The Meeting appointed Mr Robert Jobson, Mr William Lindsay and Mr Willm Roberts as a
Committee to arrange the mode in which the Address should be presented to his Royal
Highness the Prince Regent.
The Meeting appointed the proceedings of this day to be inserted in the Dundee, Perth &
Cupar Advertiser.
The Preses having left the Chair the Meeting unanimously voted their thanks to him for his
conduce in the Chair.
Dundee 7 th April 1817
Present
10 Members
The Committee are of opinion that at the General Meeting to be held on Wednesday next
resolutions should be adopted to petition the Magistrates & Council to concur in an
24

application to the Convention of Burghs for a change of the set of the Burgh to the extent
resolved upon by the Magistrates and Council on the 9 th August 1815
The Committee desired the Clerk to lay before the Annual Meeting a copy of the Dean of
Guilds accounts for the year 1816 to be read. The Committee are of opinion that the Meeting
should require the Magistrates to pay for the funds in their hands belonging to the Guildry
five per cent the interest payable twice a year – and also to lend out the money presently in the
Bank in the same terms.
The Committee are of opinion that the charge in these accounts of £(blank) for taking the
opinion of Counsel is improperly stated against the Guildry as the same ought to have been
paid from the public revenues of the Toun the Memorial being a joint one between the Toun
Council & Guildry, the latter of whom have paid their half from their own private funds.
The Committee directed the Clerk to get back the Guildry and Trades Petitions presented in
January 1816.
At a General Quarterly Meeting of the Guildry held within the Ancient Operative Mason
Lodge, on the 9h day of April 1817 at twelve o’clock noon – in consequence of previous notice
in the Dundee, Perth & Cupar Advertiser.
John Jobson Esquire of Rosemount in absence of the Dean of Guild, and of Robert Jobson
Esq. the Permanent Preses, was unanimously called to the Chair.
The Clerk read to the meeting a Minute of meeting of the Committee, held on the 7 th Current,
recommending a renewed application to the Magistrates and Council to commune with the
Guildry in presenting a petition to the Convention of Burghs in July next for a change in the
set of the Burgh.
Mr Lindsay moved that the recommendation of the Committee should be followed; and to that
effect proposed that the Guildry do adopt the following resolutions on the subject:
1 st That a Petition shall forthwith be drawn up and subscribed by the Members of the Guildry
praying that the Magistrates and Toun Council would be pleased to concur with the Guildry in
presenting an application to the next Convention of Burghs, for an alteration of the set of he
Burgh, to the extent resolved upon by the Magistrates and Toun Council and Nine Trades on
the 9 th day of August 1815.
2 nd That this Meeting do adjourn till Saturday sen’night at eleven o’clock forenoon; then to
meet in this place for the purpose of subscribing the said petition.
Mr Sturrock seconded Mr Lindsay’s motion which was unanimously carried.
A copy of the accounts of the Guildry’s funds for the preceding year was read to the Meeting;
and the following letter unanimously appointed to be transmitted by the Preses to the Dean of
Guild.
Sir
I am directed by the Guildry Incorporation, to intimate to you, that, at their Quarterly
Meeting, held this day, the Guildry accounts for the year 1816 were laid before them; in which
the following observations were made:
1 st That the balance brought from former accounts may or may not be correct; for the Meeting
had no documents before them to enable them to decide.
2d The charge of £136 paid to Messers Small and Henderson for opinion of Counsel in the
joint Memorial for the Toun Council and Guildry, ought not to have been stated against the
Guildry.
The Guildry have already paid their half of the expence of those opinions; and the other half
ought to have been paid from the public revenue of the Toun under the management of the
Magistrates & Council.
3d Credit is given for only four and a half per cent in the money lent to the Toun and Kirkfabric.
In place of five per cent. If the Town Council cannot pay a higher rate of interest, the
25

money ought to be lent on other good security at five per cent; the interest to be paid half
yearly.
4h The money deposited in the Bank at four per cent should be immediately lent out on good
security at five per cent.
I am Your most obedt Servt
John Jobson Preses.
The Clerk stated that by desire of the Committee he had applied to Mr Thomas Davidson
Depute Toun clerk to get back the Petition presented by the Guildry to the Toun Council on
the 1 st January 1816; because the then Toun Council had taken no notice of it, and it might be
useful to the Guildry in their future proceedings.
Mr Davidson answered that he would consult with Provost Riddoch, and take his instructions.
Mr Davidson afterwards informed the Clerk that Mr Riddoch said, that as was only one of the
Council, he could not order the Petition to be delivered up.
The Guildry appointed Messers John Jobson, William Lindsay, David Blair Jr., and Archibald
Crichton, a deputation to wait upon the Provost, to request that the above mentioned petition
should be returned to the Clerk.
As the Guildry Directors of the Lunatic Asylum have soon to be elected by the Incorporation
the Meeting resolved to present the following requisition to the Dean of Guild, to call a
meeting for that purpose.
Dean of Guild
Sir
We subscribers members of the Guildry Incorporation, request that you will call a meeting of
the said Incorporation, to be held in he Guild Hall on Saturday the 19 th Current at one o’clock
afternoon; for the purpose of electing the Guildry Directors of the Lunatic Asylum for the
ensuing year.
(signed) John Jobson, William Lindsay, Thomas Smart, John Duff, James Duncan Junior,
John Peter, Jas Brown, William Ellet, Ron Thornton, James Peat, James Brough, Andrew
Garland, David Miln, Wm Bell Senior, John Ferrier, Jas. Chalmers, Archd Crichton, D. Blair
Jr., John Sturrock, John Croom, Thomas Watt.
The Meeting appointed Messers John Peter, John Sturrock, Robert Thornton and David Miln
a deputation to wait upon the Dean of Guild with the requisition.
The Clerk in absence of Mr Roberts reported that the address to the Prince Regent, voted at
last Meeting had been laid before his Royal Highness, and the following letter had been
addressed by Lord Sidmouth to Mr Roberts.
Whitehall February 28 th 1817
Sir, - I have had the honour to lay before his Royal Highness the Prince Regent the very
dutiful and loyal address which you transmitted in your letter of 21 st Current from the Guildry
Incorporation of Dundee, congratulating his Royal Highness upon his deliverance from the
danger to which he was exposed by the late atrocious attack upon his sacred person; and I
have the satisfaction to acquaint you that his Royal Highness was please to receive the same in
the most gracious manner. I have the honour to be Sir, Your most obedient humble Servant
(signed) Sidmouth
The Meeting appointed the minute of this Meeting to be inserted in the “Dundee, Perth &
Cupar Advertiser”.
The Preses having left the Chair the Meeting unanimously voted thanks to him for the
propriety of his conduct.
At a General Meeting of the Guildry Incorporation of Dundee, held in the Ancient Operative
Lodge, on Saturday the 19 th day of April 1817 in consequence of public advertisement.
Robert Jobson Esquire, Permanent Preses in the Chair
26

The Clerk read the minute of last Meeting.
Captain Blair reported that in compliance with the instructions of that Meeting the
Deputation had waited on Provost Riddoch, to get back the Guildry Petition which had been
presented to the Magistrates & Council on the first January 1816; and that the Provost
promised to lay the request before the first Meeting of Council. Provost Riddoch afterwards
informed him, that the Council had resolved not to return the Petition, but that the Guildry
might obtain a copy of it from the Toun’s Law Agent in Edinburgh; in whose hands it now lies,
to be produced in the Process between the Guildry and the Toun Council. The Provost also
stated, that an answer to this Petition had, on a former occasion, been transmitted to Mr
Roberts, in a letter addressed to him by the Provost, in name of the Council.
The Clerk read a Petition to the Magistrates and Council, which had been drawn up for the
subscribers of the Members of the Guildry; - Which Petition was unanimously approved of
subscribed by the Members present and appointed to be presented to the Toun council when
the absent Members have had an opportunity of subscribing.
The Meeting then proceeded to the election of Directors for the Lunatic Asylum for the
ensuing year. It was proposed and unanimously resolved that ten Members of the Guildry and
three Members of the Maltmen Fraternity should be put in nomination as candidates for the
office; and that three of the Guildry candidates, and one of the Maltmen should thereafter be
elected by ballot. He following Gentlemen were then nominated as Guildry Candidates: Mr
John Baxter of Idvies, Robert Miller, Edward Baxter, John Croom, William Lindsay, Thomas
Bell, John Duff Junior, John Gray, John Alison, David Miln; and for the Maltmen – Messers
William Cathro, George Pride and David Guillan. The meeting appointed Messers David Blair
Jr and John Sturrock to be tellers.
The balloting being closed, and the voted reported, the Preses declared that Messers John
Baxter, Edward Baxter and John Croom were duly elected to be Guildry Directors to the
Lunatic Asylum for he ensuing year; and Mr William Cathro to be Director for the Maltmen.
Mr Archibald Crichton then moved the following resolutions:
1 st It appears from the records of the Guildry Incorporation, and of the Toun Council of
Dundee, that, in former times, no great public measure affecting the interests of the
community was adopted by the Magistrates without in the first place consulting the Guildry,
and obtaining the approbation of a body which comprised so large a share of the intelligence
& capital and which had so steep an interest in the prosperity of the Toun.
2d If the Magistracy of 1809 had, according to the good old practice, consulted with the
Guildry on the opening of a Quarry in the Hospital grounds at the Sea Braes it is highly
probable that so ruinous a speculation would never have been agreed to.
3 rd The Guildry have observed that the present Magistracy have commenced an extensive
embankment and sea wall at the west end of the Toun, while, if the object for which it is
erected, and the funds from which it is to be paid, the Guildry and the public are improperly
kept in ignorance.
4 th That a Committee be therefore appointed to wait upon the Magistrates, to enquire into and
report concerning the origin & object of the said works, their estimated expence, and the
funds form which that expence is to be Defrayed; - that the public may not, by its silence, be
supposed to have given sanction to a speculation which may prove as unprofitable as the one
already mentioned; and that the extravagant follies may be avoided in Dundee which through
want of concert with the inhabitants, have proved so calamitous in a great borough of the
North.
Mr Edward Baxter seconded these resolutions; - which after some discussion were carried
unanimously; Messers William Roberts, D. Blair Jr and Edward Baxter being appointed a
committee to make the necessary enquiry, and to report.
Mr Roberts stated that it was extremely inconvenient for so many people engaged in active
business to attend Meetings of the Guildry in the forenoon: He therefore proposed that in
27

future the Meetings of the Guildry should, in general, be held at 7 o’clock in the evening. This
proposal was unanimously approved of.
The Preses having left the Chair the Meeting unanimously voted thanks to him for the
propriety of his conduct.
Unto the Honourable the Magistrates of the Burgh of Dundee and the remanent Members of
the Toun Council
The Petition of the Subscribers Members of the Guildry Incorporation of Dundee
Humbly Sheweth
That the Guildry Incorporation having in the year 1815 instituted an investigation onto their
Ancient Rights and Privileges, they discovered that by the Charter of Erection their Dean and
other officer bearers were appointed to be elected by the suffrages of the Members, but that by
some change (the cause of which has not been discovered) The Toun Council afterwards
acquired the right of electing the Dean.
That the Incorporation being anxious to regain the right of electing the Dean they applied in
1815 to the Magistrates & Council to restore it to the Guildry, and the Magistrates and Council
with the advice and consent of the Nine Incorporated Trades were of this date pleased to
adopt the following resolutions on that subject.
“At Dundee the ninth day of August 1815 Which day, the Provost, Magistrates, Trades and
remanent Members of the Toun Council of Dundee being met and convened in Council
consulting upon their affairs of the Burgh; and the communications from the Guildry having
been considered, and it appearing that the Guildry now rest their claim solely on their
Chartered Rights the Council on the most mature deliberation fully recognise, first the justice
and expediency of the Guildry’s resuming the election of the Assessors to the Dean of Guild,
their Collector and officers, and the management of their own funds; and
Secondly the justice and expediency of the Guildry electing the Dean of Guild; but from the
length of time that has elapsed since they exercised that right, the Council at present are not
prepared to say that a recognition of it by them alone would be sufficient to enable the Guildry
to exercise it effectually now, or to enable the Council to receive as one of their members the
Dean elected by the Guildry, in stating this however, the Council desire it to be distinctly
understood, that they intend not to oppose any barrier to the resumption of the Guildry’s
Rights. Their object on the contrary is to have them placed in legal and incontrovertible
grounds; and it is obviously the interest of the Guildry as well as the duty of Council to take
care that the Dean of Guild, who besides acting as a Member of the Council has to discharge
judicial duties of high importance to the Community in which he has the exclusive
jurisdiction, shall be elected in such a manner as to leave no apprehension or doubt as to the
legality of his Acts as a Councillor, or of his Decrees as a Judge, for this purpose the Council
will most cheerfully concur with the Guildry or their Committee in adopting such measures as
shall be found requisite to ensure to the Guidry the right of electing the Dean and to the
Council the power of receiving the Dean so elected; that he may take his Seat in Council and
perform the duties of his office in such a way as shall protect the election, and the Acts
consequent thereon from every Challenge.”
That the opinion of eminent Counsel having been afterwards taken, on a Memorial prepared
by the Agents for the Parties it was recommended that an application should be presented by
the Magistrates & Council, Guildry and Trades to the Convention of Burghs to ratify and
approve an alteration of the Sett of the Burgh to the extent required by the Guildry and so
warmly approven of by the Magistrates and Council. That the Magistrates & the Council of the
following year having entertained a different opinion with regard to the propriety of altering
the Sett of the Burgh, they rescinded the resolutions of the former Council, but as this was
done without consulting the Trades, it is believed that the proceedings were illegal and that
the former resolution of the Magistrates & Council and Trades in favour of the Guildry are still
subsisting and may be acted upon; and therefore although the present Magistrates and
Council should not grant the prayer of the Petition it is the intention of the Guildry to present
an application to the Convention of Burghs praying for an alteration of the Sett to the extent
resolved upon by the Magistrates and Council and Trades in 1815 and to found such
application on those Resolutions as if they were subsisting and unrescinded.
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That as the Magistrates and Council must now be fully aware that until the Privileges of the
Guildry are restored they cannot enjoy the goodwill and confidence of the Inhabitants it is
hoped that they will adopt and confirm the Resolutions passed by their Predecessors in
August 1815 and concur with the Guildry and Trades in an application to the next Convention
of Burghs for an alteration on the Sett of the Burgh to the extent declared in those resolutions
to be just and expedient.
May it therefore please your
Honours to consider this Petition and
To concur in an application to the next
Convention of Burghs for an alteration
in the Sett of the Burgh to the
effect that the Guildry may obtain
the right of electing their Dean by
the suffrages of the Members of the
Incorporation and that the Dean
shall hold his Seat as Member of
the Toun Council ex officio, and farther
that you will be pleased to restore to
the Incorporation the right of electing
their other office bearers and the management
of their own funds.
(signed) Ron Jobson, Arch Crichton, John Duff, Edward Baxter, John Peter, John Sturrock,
John Gray, James Chalmers, D. Blair Jr., John Croom, W. Fairweather, James Campbell.
Charles Brown, James Peat, John Watson, Andrew Mount, James Butchart, Robt. Torbet,
Thomas Ivory, Alexr. White, Thomas Baxter Jr., John Whittet Jr., William Cochrane Junior,
William Crawford, James Brough, James Soot, John Tod Jr., Pat. Smith, John Ferrier,
William Cathro, Alexr. Rob, John How Jr., Andre Garland, James Keiller, David Kea, Jas.
Brown, Geo. Nicol Sen., William Bell Snr., John Jolly, Gilbert Pirie, James Young, James
Scott, Alexander Pirie, Peter Couper, John Fenton, John Baxter, David Maxwell, David Baxter,
James Crockat, James Scott, John Jobson, Geo. Miln, Charles Miller, George Scott, John
Watt, David Miln, Rob. Thornton, Charles Rodger, Thomas Watt, George Stephen, P.
Gardiner, Rob. Adamson, Rob. Stirling, David Martin, J. B. Miller, John Luke, Rob.
Farquharson, William Constable, John Thomson, Jas. Johnstone, Alexander Morison,
Thomas Smart, James Watt, Archd. Scott, W. Roberts, David How, Junior, Wm. Bell Jr.,
William Bisset, William Wilson, Thos. Hood, James Simson, James Cameron, William
Shepherd, Thomas Rattray, David Soot, Edward Leslie, William Lesslie, David Watson, James
Nicoll, Alexander Edward Senr., A. Edward Jr., John Taylor, James Aberdeen, Ja. Campbell,
Will. Baxter, will. Bisset, Henry Bell, William Lindsay, Alexander Lowson, James Saunders,
James Doig Jr., Andrew Hood, James Mitchell, John Hutchison, Thomas Dick Jr., David
Jobosn, Geo Nicoll, James Duncan Junior, William Ellet, James Webster, William Clark
Junior, John Moir, Thomas Neish Jr., Henry Blyth, Graham Batchelor, Robert Mudie,
Alexander Kay, David Stephen, Past. White, John Cairncross.
125 Members
Dundee
23 rd May 1817
Present
10 members
The Clerk laid before the Committee the Petition to the Magistrates resolved upon at a late
General Meeting and requested the Meeting to appoint a Sub Committee to get the petition
presented to the Toun Council,
The Committee appointed Messers Roberts, Lindsay, Miln and Blair a Sub Committee to get
the Petition presented.
The clerk laid before the Meeting a letter from Messers Gibson, Christie and Wardlaw of
which the following is a copy:
Edinb 20 May 1817
29

Dear Sir
The question between the Guildry of Dundee and the Magistrates was at last heard to a
conclusion before Lord Reston this day. His Lordship said that he was inclined to sustain the
title of the Guildry to pursue, but as the case had been heard in so desultory a manner, and at
so many different times, he wished before pronouncing any Interlocutor to have the case
before him in writing and he therefore appointed the parties to give in mutual
Condescendences. We have sent the process to Mr Ivory, who is completely master of the case,
to draw the Condescendence for the Guildry and so soon as we receive the Draft of it, it will be
forwarded to you.
We are &c Signed Gibson, Christie & Warden.
The Meeting directed the Clerk to call a Meeting of the Committee to see the Condescendence.
At a General Meeting of the Guildry Incorporation of Dundee held on Wednesday the eleventh
June 1817, within the Ancient Operative Mason Lodge (the Magistrates still excluding the
Guildry from the lawful use of their own Hall in the Toun House) for the purpose of receiving
the Report of a Committee appointed at last General Meeting
John Jobson Esquire of Rosemount, was called to the Chair in the absence of Robert Jobson
Esq., the Permanent Preses.
Before the Report was brought up Captain Blair took an opportunity of stating, that
notwithstanding the disgraceful and ruinous consequences which had resulted from the want
of Constables in Dundee in the Month of December last, but Magistrates had again improperly
allowed the period of the Constables service to expire; and had left the Toun unprotected for
several days.
Mr William Roberts followed on the same side; and after giving an account of a singular
interview with Provost Riddoch concluded by moving:
That a Committee of the Guildry Incorporation be appointed not only to ascertain whether the
Magistrates have yet discharged the important duty of appointing Constables to preserve the
peace of the Toun; but to adopt such measures as may tend to ensure a regular discharge of
that Duty in future.
Captain Blair seconded the Motion which was unanimously carried. And the Meeting
appointed the Standing committee of the Guildry to take charge of the matter.
Captain Blair stated it was a duty incumbent on every good citizen to do his utmost to
preserve the peace of the Toun; and that he had no doubt that the Guildry, as a respectable
public body, would always be foremost in the discharge of this most important duty. He
therefore moved the following resolution:
That the Guildry Incorporation shall, individually, whether there be a regular police in the
Toun or not, do every thing in their power to suppress riot and tumult and protect the laws
and property of the Citizens. This Motion was unanimously carried.
Messers William Roberts, Edward Baxter and Captain Blair, brought up their Report on the
subject of the Sea Wall and embankment at the Sea Braes, which was as follows:
The Committee appointed to enquire into effect the resolution of the 19 th April last, now
report, that they lost no time in applying to the Magistrates for the necessary information
regarding the origin and object of the works at the Sea Braes; and accordingly, addressed the
following letter to Alexander Riddoch Esq., as the Chief Magistrate:
Alexander Riddoch Esq.
Sir
At a meeting of the Guildry held 19 Current, the resolution of which we enclose you a printed
copy, were unanimously passed. We beg to assure you that in passing these resolutions, the
Guildry disclaim all wanton and improper interference with the Magistracy. They consider it
to be their undoubted right, as Guild Brethren, or as Burgesses of the Toun, to exercise their
judgements on any public measure which the Magistrates may adopt. The Committee
30

therefore, thus appointed, most respectfully request, that you will do them the honour of
naming an hour when it may be convenient for you, as Chief Magistrate, to receive them; and
you will then be good enough to communicate any information regarding the public
improvement in question, which you may think proper. They are, respectfully Sir, your most
obedient servants
(signed) W, Roberts
David Blair Jr
Edw Baxter
Dundee April 23 1817
To this Letter Provost Riddoch returned no answer. Whether at this time he began to be afraid
of an investigation into the general merits of the plan – whether he thought that the natural
connection between it and the 1809 speculation on the same fatal spot might introduce a
discussion of the merits of the later project – or that as your Committee have been told never
having laid the plan and estimated expence of the works before his own Council for their
sanction and advice, he thought it would be throwing too great a slight even on them, to
communicate in the first instance his plans to a Committee appointed by the Guildry – we
cannot pretend to decide. His motives for with holding this information must be left to the
judgement of the public. We therefore proceed to lay before the Guildry the information we
have collected concerning the undertaking at the Sea Braes. As origin, object and estimated
expence.
First. The Origin – Barred from all authentic information concerning the origin of these works
by the conduct of the Chief Magistrate, your Committee can only refer to public report, which
attributes them to a wish to improve and beautify the Toun, and to the laudable motive of
furnishing employment to the labouring poor of Dundee during the present great distress
purposed have been answered, will be inquired into afterwards; but it is understood that the
funds necessary for carrying on the works are to defrayed out of the poor or Hospital
revenues.
Second. The same difficulty attends, in some degree, this part of the subject. But the plan the
Magistrates seem to have in view, is to enclose a space from the Sea. Equal to about two
English Acres including the Braes, by a strong wall projecting into the Sea to the distance of
forty five yeards from high water mark and stretching from Mr Martins property on the west
to join Mrs Thoms on the east boundary. It is understood that this place is to be fitted up with
sand from the banks, to the height of the Sea Wall above which, three feet of earth will have to
be added, and a parapet wall built sufficient to enclose this soil. The ground thus gained will
then be sold in five lots, for building stances. In presenting this account of the plan to the
Guildry, the Committee are aware it will be asked where the houses are to be built. They
cannot give an answer to the question. The road along the Braes is thirty one feet wide, and
the statutes provides for a breadth of forty feet for a turnpike road, if the houses then be
intended to front the Road, the north wall must be built on the edge of the precipice, and the
buildings must be supported upon foundation walls of fifty six feet in height. This would be
expensive, dangerous and perhaps impracticable. Again, if the houses be erected near the
South Boundary at the bottom of the precipice your Committee have yet to be informed how
access is to be procured down the precipice to the adventurous inhabitants.
Third. Your Committee have admitted their want of authentic information concerning the
origin, and their inability to comprehend the object of the works. They feel therefore, some
hesitation on these points. But in the most important branch of the subject they stand on
firmer ground, and ask you to rely with full confidence in the correctness of their information,
measurements, and calculations. The information of the estimates have been collected from
the best sources, the measurements have been taken on the spot, and compared with these of
the Tradesmen who offered to execute the work. The Sea Wall being in a state of forwardness,
we begin with laying before the Guildry that part of the expence. The Wall contains thirty nine
roods, and two thirds of a rood Face measure; which has been contracted for at £24:16/- Per
rood of face measure, besides payment for a centre arch to lead off the water from a common
sewer. The amount of this contract then is £983:14:8d. exclusive of the Centre arch. A
considerable time after this Contrast was concluded, and after great part of it had been
executed, the Magistrates then advertised for a contractor to fill up the space between the
Wall and the precipice. It may be enquired, why, in undertaking a work of this magnitude, the
31

contracts for the whole work were not taken in at once, that the total expence of the
improvement might have been seen at one view; and that thus the proprietor might have been
enabled to judge the expediency of carrying the plan into execution. This would have formed a
sure guide to judge of their ability to expend the sum of money required, and they might then
have reflected, whether, after completing the plan, the stances would then sell so as to pay a
profit on the original cost; when if the cost exceeded the sum they would sell for, the plan
might have been abandoned without incurring any loss. At all events, they would have had the
satisfaction of having taken the proper precautions that his mode of proceeding was too broad
and comprehensive. Afraid equally of raising the expectations of the tradesmen by giving out
all the specifications at once, and of attracting the public eye, the magistrates gave them out
one by one. And it is necessary again to repeat that the specifications for filling up, by far the
most expensive part of the work, were actually given out three out four months after the
commencement of the Sea Wall.
Had Provost Riddoch got correct estimates of the total expence of the work, and laid them and
the plan of the improvement before the Council for their advice, most probably this
speculation had never been entered into. Your Committee have been told that the latter in
their corporate capacity, were never consulted on the subject, for had they been consulted, is it
probable they ever could without any information regarding the expense have given it their
sanction?
We are informed, that when Provost Riddoch received the contracts for the filling up he was
so surprised at the amount, that the undertaking has been abandoned for the present, thus
entailing upon the public an useless expence of nearly £1,000. The wall is thus to be left to its
fate; and the Magistrates are waiting until the sea come to their aid, and assist their
operations by its deposits of sand and mud! This is no idle remark: Among the project of equal
celebrity, it has the origin in the fertile brain of the Chief Magistrate; and is now echoed
through his dependants to the public.
Here your Committee wish you to pause, in order to direct your attention to the system under
which the public improvements in Dundee have for these thirty years past been managed, is it
founded in common sense, that the public purse should be at the uncontrolled disposal of a
man who is capable of embarking in a speculation which we will show to cost above £3,200
without calculating the cost? Is there not extreme folly and incapacity in expending £1000
without any definite object, and then abandoning the scheme altogether? And in short, is not
this conduct of Provost Riddoch’s most inexcusable, when it is considered that the sum of
£1000 thus thrown into the sea has been taken out of the Poor or Hospital funds, at this time
of unexampled pressure and when that very sum is wanted to prevent the population of the
Toun from starving?
We now proceed to lay before you the remaining expences of the scheme; and in stating that
of the filling up, by far the most costly part of the whole, we cannot refrain from thinking that
his was completely neglected by the Magistrates, when they proceeded to build the sea wall. It
seems the contract for filling up (which was the cause of the abandonment of the scheme) only
included that part of the Sea beach from Mr Martin’s property to the Chasm. The filling up of
this space with sand to the level of the sea wall, contains 1600 cubic yards; and will cost at the
lowest rate of ten pence per cubic yard £666:13:4d. it is also proper to mention, that the offers
received by the Magistrates for executing this part of the work, were fourteen pence; thirteen
pence half penny; one shilling, and we believe so low as ten pence per cubic yard: And it is
necessary also to add, that though we have estimated at the above sum we do not believe that
it can be executed at nearly that rate; for those who undertake this species of work are
generally men without capital, and therefore unable to bear loss. We are therefore
considerably below the sum when we estimate it at £666:13:4d. At the same rate the space on
the west side of the Chasm will cost £393:15/-. This space being now filled up with sand to the
height of the level of the sea wall, the covering of it with three feet of earth, will cost, at
eighteen pence per cubic yard £658:2/6d and a parapet wall four feet high to support the
earth will cost at least £52:16:8d.
We shall now recapitulate the whole expence:
Sea Wall exclusive of Centre arch £983.10.8
Filling up to west of Chasm 666.13.4
Filling up to east of do 393.15.-
Filling up with Earth to the height
of three feet 658: 2:6
Building parapet wall 52:16:8
32

Price said to have been offered for
The Braes in their natural state 500: 0:0
Amounting in all to 3254: 17: 2
Or each Stance 650:19:5
(Using the RPI this equates to £225,077 in 2007)
To his sum remains to be added the expence of building walls to divide the lots of terraces to
support the earth, conduits &c, &c. we are therefore below the truth when we say that the
whole will cost four thousand pounds before the lots are complete for building stances.
At a time when property was at its highest rate, Messers Alison and Davidson paid only £1800
for the two acres above the Braes, with every advantage of situation, access and prospect, and
only £750 with a small few duty has been paid at the east end of the Toun, for a beautiful piece
of ground consisting of about five acres. The loss therefore attending this speculation will in
all probability be immense. And in squandering of this money cannot be too strongly
reprobated when it is considered that the sum has been taken out of the funds specially
appropriated to the support of the decayed burgesses of Dundee.
It has been alleged that the improvement would be ornamental to the Toun. This we cannot
agree to. If the Braes had been laid out in shrubbery, intersected with neat walls and thrown
open for the recreation of the public it might have been both useful and ornamental, but we do
not see that prospect down chimney vents can claim alliance either with utility or beauty. It
has also been said that the improvement would employ the labouring poor of Dundee in the
present scarcity of employment. Had this been the reason for embarking on the scheme would
the building of the Wall have been given to a Perthshire Contractor and to Mylnefield
Builders? Or would the Magistrates have relinquished that very part of the work which
promised to employ more common labourers than the building of the Wall, namely the filling
up?
In conclusion your Committee venture to assert, that if the Magistrates of Dundee had kept
faith with the Guildry, if the Dean of Guild elected by the Incorporation had sat at the Council
table agreeably to the resolution of the 9 th August 1815 – this absurd and expensive project
would never have been entered into; the Magistrates would have been saved from disgrace,
and the property of he Toun from waste.
This Report being much approved of by the Guildry, Mr Roberts moved Captain Blair
seconded and the Meeting unanimously passed the following Resolutions:
First. That the refusal of the Magistrates to communicate to the Guildry the necessary
information regarding the origin, object and utility of the works at present carrying on at the
Sea Braes is highly to be reprehended.
Second. That from the Report which has now been read, it would appear that the enclosing
and embanking this piece of ground would cost nearly £4,000 to be defrayed out of the funds
of the Hospital without any probable chance of realising even one half of this sum by the sale
of it when completed, and:
Third. It being the bounden duty of the Guildry Incorporation to watch over the interests of
the Toun, they therefore hold the Magistrates of Dundee responsible for whatever loss the
funds of the Hospital may sustain in consequence of the more improvident speculation; and
that the Clerk of the Guildry be instructed immediately to intimate a Protest to this effect,
against the Magistrates and Toun Council of Dundee individually.
Mr William Ellet moved that the thanks of the Meeting should be given to Messers William
Roberts, Edward Baxter and Captain Blair, the Committee, for their great perseverance in
obtaining information and the ability with which they had drawn up the Report.
This was passed with loud applause.
33

Mr Jobson having left the Chair, the thanks of the meeting were unanimously voted to him for
his conduct as Preses.
Dundee 2 July 1817
Present
12 members
Mr Miln Preses
The Preses reported that Mr Roberts, Captain Blair, Mr Sturrock and himself had waited on
the Toun Council this day at their meeting and presented the Guildry Petition; that Mr
Davidson the Toun Clerk waited on him about an hour afterwards, to state that he had been
desired by the Council to intimate to him that the Petition had been taken into consideration
and the prayer immediately refused.
Mr Roberts stated that Mr Miln at presenting the Petition had delivered a most judicious,
conciliatory and impressive address to the Toun Council and that it appears to Mr Roberts
that it produced considerable effect on the audience.
The Committee unanimously voted thanks to Mr Miln for his conduct at presenting the
Petition to the Toun Council this day.
The Committee directed the Clerk to prepare a Petition to the Convention of Burghs and
appointed Messers Roberts, Miln, Blair and Sturrock as a Sub Committee to revise it.
Unto the Honourable
The Convention of Royal Burghs
Assembled at Edinburgh
The Petition of
The Guildry Incorporation of Dundee
Humble Sheweth
That the set of the Burgh of Dundee is the closest in Scotland; and therefore it is in the power
of an individual to obtain the exclusive management of the affairs of the Burgh; to keep
possession of that management during a long life, and to transmit the power to a favoured
successor. The inhabitants of the Burgh are kept in total ignorance of their affairs; and the
public revenues of the Toun have ever been, as it were, the private property of the leader for
the time. At present Alexander Riddoch is Provost of the Toun and Leader of the Council;
which latter situation he has held during a period of more than forty years, generally
excluding from his Council the more independent and intelligent inhabitants and burgesses of
the Toun. Holding the uncontrolled power for so long a period as forty years, it was next to
impossible that the Revenue of the Burgh should have been so advantageously administered
by the leader as if he had been under the control of an independent Council; and accordingly
yr Inhabitants have to complain of various acts of palpable mismanagement, which may
probably be the ground of future investigation; but with a recapitulation of which, at present,
it would be improper to trouble the Honourable the Convention.
A general dissatisfaction among the inhabitants led the Merchants of Dundee, who all are or
ought to be members of the Guildry Incorporation, to enquire into their rights and privileges -
in order to obtain, if possible, a salutary check on the management of public affairs. Therefore
the ancient records of the Toun were inspected; and it was found that the Guildry
Incorporation had originally the right of electing its Deans, Assessors, Clerk and Officer and
management of its own funds, but that these rights had gradually been usurped by the Toun
Council.
That the Incorporation being anxious to regain these rights, the Petitioners applied, in July
1815, to the Magistrates and Council to restore theme to the Guildry. The Magistrates and
Council then unanimously expressed their approbation of such a measure; but declined to
give a decided opinion until the Nine Trades were consulted. The Nine Trades were,
accordingly assembled; and having unanimously approved of the measure, the Magistrates
34

and Council, with the advice of the Nine Incorporated Trades unanimously passed the
following Act of Council.
At Dundee the 9 th day of August 1815 Which day the Provost, Magistrates, Trades and
remanent members of the Toun Council of Dundee, being met and convened in Council
consulting upon the affairs of he Burgh, and the communications from the Guildry having
been again considered; and it appearing that the Guildry now rest their claim solely on their
Chartered rights – the Council on the most mature deliberation fully recognise;
Firstly; The justice and expediency of the Guildrys resuming the election of he Assessors of the
Dean of Guild, their Collector and Officer and the management of their own funds; and
Secondly. The justice and expediency of the Guildrys electing the Dean of Guild; but from the
length of time that has elapsed since they exercised that right, the Council at present, are not
prepared to say that a recognition of it by them alone would be sufficient to enable the Guildry
to exercise it effectually now, or to enable the Council to receive, as one of their members, the
Dean elected by the Guildry. In stating this, however, the Council desire to be distinctly
understood that they intend not to oppose any barrier to the resumption of the Guildrys right.
Their object on the contrary, is to have them placed on legal and incontrovertible grounds;
and it is obviously the interest of the Guildry as well as the duty of the Council, to take care
that the Dean of Guild – who, besides acting as a member of the Council has to discharge
judicial duties of high importance to the community, in which he has the exclusive jurisdiction
– shall be elected in such a manner as to leave no apprehension or doubt as to the legality of
his acts as a Counsellor, or of his Decrees as a Judge.
For this purpose the Council will most cheerfully concur with the Guildry or their Committee
in adopting such measures as shall be found requisite to insure to the Guildry the right of
electing the Dean, and to the Council the power of Receiving the Dean as elected; that he may
take his seat in Council, and perform the duties of his office in such a way as shall protect the
election and the acts consequent thereon from every challenge. The Council direct an extract
of this Minute to be transmitted this day to the Guildry Committee; and authorise the Toun
Clerks to give out and enact accordingly.
That the opinion of eminent Counsel having been afterwards taken, on a Memorial and
queries prepared by the Agents of the parties, it was recommended that an application should
be presented to the Magistrates and Council, the Guildry and the Nine Incorporated Trades, to
the Honourable the Convention of Burghs, to ratify and approve of an alteration of the set of
the Burgh, to the extent prayed for by the Guildry, and so warmly approven of by the
Magistrates and Council. Counsel also gave it as their decided opinion, that the set of the
Burgh could be legally altered in that manner; and that the sanction of the Honourable the
Convention of Royal Burghs was all that was necessary, by the established law of the country
to authorise he alteration required.
That the Magistrates and Council who were elected at Michaelmas 1815, although composed
(with the exception of two members) of the same persons as the Council of the preceding year,
did, on the 20 th March 1816, pass the following act of Council rescinding the Act of the 15
august preceding.
At Dundee the 20 day of March 1816 Which day the Provost, Magistrates and remanent
members of the Toun Council of Dundee being met and convened in Council consulting about
the ordinary affairs of the Burgh, Mr David Blair, a Merchant Counsellor, moved that the
Minutes of the Council, dated the ninth day of August last, be read by the Clerk; which motion
being seconded by Mr Isaac Watt, also a Merchant Councillor, the minutes were read
accordingly. After which, the said Mr David Blair represented, that it appeared to him, that
these minutes made certain admissions and concessions in favour of the Guildry which were
quite unwarrantable; and referred to certain chartered rights that the Guildry were supposed
to possess, which were not before the Council and which either never had any existence, or
had gone entirely into desuetude and been departed from for much more than a century
bypast. That, in his opinion, the tendency of the resolutions contained in these minutes was to
unhinge the constitution of the burgh, and throw every thing established by legal authority
and long tried expediency into anarchy and confusion; and that the councils agreeing to
concur with the Guildry, or their Committee in adopting the measures mentioned in these
minutes, was extremely unguarded and contrary to law. That the opinion of Lawyers had been
obtained on a Memorial and Queries for the Toun Council and Guildry, which were fully set
forth the chartered rights above alluded to; but the lawyers did not consider these rights to be
35

entitled to any sort of regard, or that any claim whatever could now be founded by the Guildry
upon them. The said Mr David Blair farther moved, That the said minutes of Council dated
the ninth day of August last, be rescinded in toto – which motion being seconded and voted in
council, was carried, and approved of unanimously, with the exception of Bailie Crichton who
declined voting; and that Council therefore rescinded the said Act of the 9 th of August last in
toto accordingly. The Council direct an extract of his minute to be transmitted this day to the
persons calling themselves the Guildry Committee, and authorize the Toun Clerk to give out
the Extract accordingly.
This Act, it will be observed, was passed without consulting the Nine Trades; and therefore the
Guildry with submission held the Act of 20 March to have been void and inept, and that the
act of the 9 th August 11815, in favour of the Guildry is still subsisting.
That the Magistrates & Council elected at Michaelmas 1816 composed of the same persons
(with the exception of two new members), expressed a strong desire to grant the request of the
Guildry, and approved of certain gentlemen who offered themselves as mediators. A printed
copy of the negotiation is herewith produced; and the Honourable the Convention of Royal
Burghs will no doubt form their own opinion of the extraordinary conduct of the Magistrates
and Council on this occasion.
That the Magistrates & Council now not only refuse to concur with the Guildry on an
application to the Honourable the Convention to sanction the restoration of the privileges of
electing the Dean but even refuse to permit the Guildry Incorporation to manage its own
funds; and are at this moment wantonly wasting the public money in opposing an action of
Declarator before the Court of Session, raised by the Guildry to attain that reasonable object.
Nay Provost Riddoch now asserts that the Honourable the Convention of Royal Burghs has no
power to sanction any change whatever of the set of the Burgh, though applied for in manner
recommended by Counsel.
That from what has been stated, it must appear quite obvious to the Honourable the
Convention of Royal Burghs, that until the Guildry shall obtain the restoration of all its
privileges, the peace and harmony of the Toun must be continually disturbed; and that it
would be most desirable that the disputes between the Guildry and Magistrates should now be
settled with the least possible delay. In this view, the Guildry now address the Convention.
The petitioners believe that the Honourable the Convention of Royal Burghs have been long in
the practice of lending their aid to restore peace and harmony in Burghs, where, as is the case
in Dundee any dispute arise between the Magistrates & Council and the Inhabitants. The
Petitioners are confident that the Convention of Royal Burghs will be of opinion that the
demands of the Guildry of Dundee are reasonable and ought to be granted; and therefore the
Guildry fondly hope that they will recommend to the Magistrates and Council to grant these
demands.
May it therefore please the Honourable Convention of Royal Burghs, to take this Petition into
consideration; to hear the Guildry by Counsel; and to adopt such measures as, in their
wisdom, shall appear most likely to induce the Magistrates and Council of Dundee to restore
to the Guildry its rights and privileges, and thereby restore peace and harmony to the Toun
(Signed) John Jobson, Henry Blyth, Edward Lesslie, William Roberts, William Bisset, John
Gray, William Baxter, Edward Baxter, Archibald Crichton, Henry Bell, John Peter, Charles
Chalmers, John G. Russel. James Webster, Andre Brown, John Jolly, David Miln, James
Scott, John Sturrock, William Thomas Baxter, Alexander Rob, William Lindsay, Joseph
Johnstone, James Doig Junior, James Brown, Thomas Ivory, William Constable, James
Chalmers, David Jobson, Thomas Mitchell, James Ogilvie, William Hackney, James Brough,
William Brooks, James Butchart, James Young, Alexander Edward Senr., William Bell Jr.,
Alexander Edward Jr., William Leslie, David Watson, William Bell Senr., Alexander Steuart,
William Cochrane Jr., Pat. Gardiner, David Soot, Andrew Garland, Thoms Rattray, Alex. Kay,
Alexander Bruce, William Crawford, David Hackney, Gersham Batchelor, James Saunders,
Robert Gowans, Alexander Farquharson, David Hutchison, John Todd Jr., John Hutchison,
James Crockatt, George Stephen, James Nicoll Jr., William Nicoll, David Coupar, Alexander
Lawson, Thomas Reid, Alexander Bell, Thomas Dick Jr., William Cathro, James Keiller, Thos.
Neish, Thomas Malcolm, James Nicoll Senr., George Nicoll Senr., William Cochrane Senr.,
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William Neish, James Adam, William Stephen, James Soot, Alexander Whyte, Robert Stirling,
Thomas Neish Jnr., James Duncan Junior, James Stewart, James Duncan, William Chalmers,
Walter Newal, Robt. Farquharson, William Fairweather, John Low Jr., George Nicol Yr., Peter
Couper, James Pullar, Lyon Alexander, Thomas Hood, John Fenton, Gilbert Pirie, David Low
Junior, William Kermack, Charles Rodger, Thomas Webster Jr., John Moir, George Brown,
Alexr. Pirie, John Luke, William Bisset, John Cairncross, Alexander Kay, Geo. Webster,
Thomas Watt, Peter Thomson, William Howie, James Campbell, Robert Mudie, John Watt,
Andrew Hood, John Sturrock, Charles Brown, Peter Crichton, David Smart, David Blair
Junior, Robert Thornton, Geo. Baxter, George L. Baxter, Thos. Smart, John Banks, Peter
Chisholm, H. Clark, John Taylor, Andrew Mount, Archibald Scott, David Stephen.
(137 members)
At a Meeting of the Guildry Incorporation of Dundee held within the Ancient Operative Lodge
there on the 14 th day of July 1817
Robert Jobson Esq in the Chair.
The Preses stated to the Meeting that he had taken the earliest opportunity to call the Guildry
together to receive more detailed information regarding the reception of the Petition in the
Convention of Burghs.
The Clerk of the Committee now detailed the communication which he had received from
Edinburgh on the subject –
Mr John Peter then made these resolutions –
1 st That the Guildry Incorporation of Dundee having taken into consideration the deliverance
of the Honourable the Convention of Royal Burghs, on the Petition lately presented by them
to that respectable body are unanimously if opinion that it would be respectful towards the
Magistrates and Council to present to them another petition founded on the said deliverance
of the Convention praying that they would be pleased to restore to the Guildry its rights and
privileges, as an Incorporation, as the only means of restoring peace and harmony to the
Toun.
2d. That a petition to the Magistrates and Council now read to this Meeting be approved of
and subscribed by all the Members of the Incorporation and thereafter presented to the Toun
Council by the Committee or such of their number as they may appoint for that purpose.
3 rd . That the Guildry are highly grateful at the result of their application to the Convention of
Royal Burghs where an open discussion of their claims was all that they expected or asked,
they feel that their warmest thanks are due to Messers Inglis and Gibson for the readiness and
zeal with which they directed their great talents to the support of the Petition; a support the
more estimable in the Guildry’s eyes because hey know that it was given from the most
disinterested motives and on the most liberal views of public good.
4 th . The Guildry are also happy to perceive among those who supported their cause, and to
whom they owe the tribute of their gratitude the delights of most of the surrounding Burghs,
where the merits of the question may be supposed to be best understood.
In Convener Thomas Miller of Edinburgh they recognise an old friend connected with Dundee
by the ties of family, and whose independent and manly conduce to equal honour to himself
and it.
5 th . That the Committee be therefore instructed to transmit the thanks of the Guildry to these
meritorious individuals.
Mr Robert Stirling seconded the Resolution which was carried unanimously.
Captain Blair moved the following as a sixth resolution.
That the Committee be instructed to communicate an account of these proceedings to the
Nine Incorporated Trades of Dundee to congratulate them in being restored by the
Convention of Royal Burghs to the weight and influence which belong to them as well as the
result of the united efforts of the Trades and Guildry, to thank the Trades for their past
37

services and express a hope that he same good understanding which has heretofore subsisted
between the two bodies may continue and lead to benefits still more important and desired.
Mr Roberts seconded the motion which was also unanimously passed.
Mr Robert Jobson having left the Chair, the thanks of the meeting were unanimously voted to
him for his prompt attention in calling the meeting together and for his conduct as Preses.
Dundee 15 July 1817
13 members present
The Meeting of the General Meeting was read.
Letters inclosing the Resolutions of he General Meeting addressed to William Inglis Esq.,
James Gibson Esq., and Thomas Miller Esquire were subscribed by the Preses and
transmitted.
The Meeting directed the Clerk to circulate printed copies of the Petition to the members of
the Guildry and to the Deans of Trades.
A communication to the Convener of the Nine Trades was subscribed by the Preses and
transmitted.
The following answers were received from Messers Inglis, Gibson and Miller.
Edinburgh 1, July 1817
Sir
I had the honor this day of receiving your obliging letter of 14 instant, containing a copy of late
Resolutions of the Guildry Incorporation of Dundee and feel much gratified, that my conduct
at the late Convention of Boroughs, should have been met with the approbation of so
respectable a Body. They do me justice in believing that I was actuated only from a sense of
duty, - certainly from no sinister or political motive.
I remain with respectful regard
Sir Your most obedt humble Servant
William Inglis
Robert Jobson Esq
Preses of Guildry of Dundee
Edinburgh 17 July 1817
Sir
I have, this day, had the honor of receiving your letter of the 14 th inclosing copy of the
Resolution of the Guidry Incorporation of Dundee.
I beg, that you will do me the favour to express to that most respectable body the satisfaction,
which I feel, that, in the discharge of my duty as a Member of the Convention of Royal Burghs,
they should have thought me deserving of the very marked approbation of my conduct, which
they have bestowed upon me. It will give me the greatest pleasure to continue to serve their
approbation, and as far in my power to contribute towards settling the matters in dispute
between them and the Provost and Magistrates of Dundee, on a footing, that shall by
honourable and satisfactory to all parties. In have the honour to remain with every great
respect Sir
Your most faithful humble Sr
(signed) James Gibson
The following minute was received from the Nine Trades.
At a General Meeting of the Nine Incorporated Trades of Dundee assembled in Common Hall
on Saturday the 19 Curt
Convener Gellatly in the Chair
The Convener stated that he had called the Meeting for the purpose of communicating to
them a letter from Robert Jobson Esquire, Preses of the Guildry inclosing the Petition of a
General Meeting of the Guildry held in the Ancient Operative Mason Lodge of Dundee on the
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14 th Curt and a copy of the Petition proposed to be presented by that body to the Toun
Council.
1 st The petition having been read to the Meeting they unanimously approve of the same,
because it is expressed in respectful language, and prays for nothing more than the
Magistrates and Council and Nine Trades were by the Minute of Council of the 9 th August 1815
pledged to grant.
2 nd The meeting unanimously recommend to the Deacons to give as hitherto every support in
Council to the reasonable claims of the Guildry vizt: the election of the Dean of Guild by the
suffrage of the Incorporation, the election of the Assessors to the Dean, and the office bearers,
and the exclusive management of their own funds – the justice and expediency of which have
already been acknowledged by the Toun Council and are now considered by all classes of the
Community to be indisputably necessary to restore harmony to the Toun.
3 rd . The Meeting unanimously voted their thanks to Robert Jobson Esq Preses of the Guildry,
for the important communication now made, and directed the Convener to congratulate him
in name of the Trades on the favourable reception of the Petition of the Guildry by the
Convention of Royal Burghs.
4 th . The Meeting unanimously voted their thanks to Messers Inglis and Gibson by whose
convincing eloquence not only has justice been done to the Guildry on this occasion, but an
act of injustice towards the Trades by the Toun Council been exposed.
5. The Meeting unanimously resolved to present to the Toun Council a firm remonstrance
against the proceedings of the 20 th March 1816 whereby they rescinded without consultation
with the Trades and important measure, which they required the vote of the Trades to enact.
Dundee 24 September 1817
Present 14 members
Mr Roberts Preses
The Committee appointed Messers David Miln, William Roberts, William Lindsay, David
Blair Junior and John Sturrock as a Sub committee to present the following Petition
subscribed by the Guildry to the Toun Council tomorrow and to report.
To the Honourable
The Magistrates and Toun council
Of Dundee
The Petition of
The Guildry Incorporation of Dundee
Humbly Sheweth
That the Guildry Incorporation of Dundee presented a Petition to the Honourable the
Convention of Boroughs which met at Edinburgh on the 8 th July current praying that
Honourable Body to take the Petition unto consideration and to adopt such measures as in its
wisdom should appear most likely to induce your Honours to restore to the Guildry the
exercise of its rights and privileges, and thereby restore peace and harmony to the Toun.
That the Honourable the Convention after a debate agreed to take the petition into
consideration on the following day: And that consideration of the said petition being
accordingly resumed on the 9 th Current, the Honourable the Convention did, after full
discussion, pronounce the following deliverance.
“The Convention having taken into consideration the Petition of the Guildry Incorporation of
Dundee, and the Acts of the Council therein referred to, do not consider themselves at liberty
to decide this important question, from the contradictory terms of these Acts, and from the
limited nature of the prayer of the petition; and therefore refuse the same. The Convention,
however, deem it their incumbent duty to state, that they see nothing in the Act of Council of
9 th August 1815, which, if carried into execution could unhinge the Constitution of the
Borough or lead to anarchy and confusion; to express a regret that this act should have been
rescinded without consultation with the Nine Trades, who had assisted at the deliberations of
that day; and strenuously to recommend to the Magistrates and Council of Dundee to adopt
such measures as may restore peace and harmony to the Borough between and next
39

Convention – reserving to the Petitioners to apply again to the convention should they see
cause.”
That although the said deliverance would point at your Honours as the party who should first
move in adopting such measures as would restore peace and harmony to the Toun, yet the
Petitioners from a high sense of that respect which is due to the Magistrates and Council of
the borough, are induced to take the earliest opportunity of again presenting to your Honours
a petition to solicit a restoration of the rights and privileges of the Guildry, as the only means
of restoring that peace and harmony. It is unnecessary that the Petitioners should again state
the nature of the Guildry’s claims, as these have bee often under your Honours consideration.
By the resolutions of the 9 th August 1815 referred to in the deliverance of the Convention the
Magistrates and council and Trades recognise –
First The justice and expediency of the Guildry resuming the election of the Assessors of the
Dean of Guild, its Collector and officer, and the management of its own funds. As these rights
regard exclusively the internal management of the affairs of the Incorporation, your Honours
can freely restore them without applying for the sanction of any other Court. The Petitioners
therefore expect that your Honours will now restore the exercise of these rights to the Guildry,
by permitting the Incorporation to elect the Assessors to the Dean, the Collector and other
officers at Michaelmas first, and appointing the Dean of Guild to deliver, at Martinmas next to
a Committee elected by the Guildry, the funds and relative papers, that the Guildry may
thereafter like other Incorporations, enjoy the exclusive management of its own affairs.
By the said Resolutions of the 9 th August 1815, the Magistrates and Council and Trades
recognised, in like manner the justice and expediency of the Guildrys electing the Dean. At
that period the parties were ignorant of the mode which the change could be legally effected,
but they are now in possession of the legal opinions of Clerk, Cranston, Thomson and Jeffrey
four of the most eminent Scots Lawyers of the present day, that the Honourable the
Convention can, with the consent of all parties, legally sanction such a change in the Set of the
Borough as has already been approven of by the Magistrates and Council, by the Nine Trades
and by the Guildry. The Honourable the Convention have also declared, that such a power
belongs to that body; and its declaration is founded on the record of numerous precedents for
centuries past, on decisions of the Court of Session, and on the opinions of eminent Counsel.
It appears therefore that there is no obstacle to prevent your Honours from carrying into
effect the Resolutions of the 9 th August 1815 as recommended by the Convention of Boroughs.
Until, honours, the sanction of that Honourable Body be obtained, at its next meeting, the
Petitioners will receive the Dean of Guild to be elected by the Magistrates at Michaelmas next,
and recognise him as the Dean until Michaelmas 1818.
May it therefore please your Honours to take this Petition into consideration and thereafter to
restore to the Guildry the right of electing its Assessors and Office Bearers, at Michaelmas
next; to appoint The Dean of Guild to deliver at Martinmas next, to a Committee of the
Guildry, the funds of the Incorporation, and relative papers, and to concur with the Guildry
and Nine Incorporated Trades in an application to the next meeting of the Convention, for
returning to the Guildry the powers of electing the Dean.
This Petition was subscribed by the following Members of the Guildry Incorporation; and
presented to the Magistrates and Council. For the convenience of reference the names have
been arranged Alphabetically:
John Baxter of Idvies one of his Majesty’s Justices of the Peace for the County of Forfar,
William Baxter Merchant, Edward Baxter Merchant, Andrew Brown Millspinner, James
Brown Millspinner, Henry Blyth Threadmaker, Henry Bell Merchant, Thomas William Baxter
Merchant, James Brown Shipmaster, William Bisset Esq of Caputh, William Brooks
Merchant, James Bruce, Alexander Bell Surgeon, David Banks Merchant, Alexander Bruce
Haberdasher, James Brough Tobacconist, Andrew Bricknall Haberdasher, James Butchart
Confectioner, Thomas Brown Grocer, George Brown Manufacturer, Charles Brown Surgeon,
John Banks Manufacturer, William Peter Senior Tobacconist, George Banks Junior
Manufacturer, George L. Baxter Manufacturer, George Baxter, William Bisset Druggist,
George Thomas Baxter Coalbroker, Thomas Bell Bailie Merchant, David Blair Junior one of
his Majesty’s Justices of the Peace for the County of Forfar, Gersham Batchelor Hosier,
Thomas Baxter Junior Baker, Charles Chalmers Merchant, William Chalmers Merchant,
Archibald Crichton Merchant and Insurance Broker, James Chalmers Bookseller, William
40

Clark of his Majesty’s Customs, David Cobb Writer, James Crockat Grocer, William Crauford
Shoemaker, Peter Chisholm Sugar refiner, Peter Coupar Brewer, John Cairncross Banker,
William Cochrane Junior Surgeon, William Cochrane Senior Surgeon, David Chisholm
Brewer, James Cameron Grocer, Peter Crichton Baker, William Cathro Brewer, William
Constable Jeweller, James Campbell Merchant, James Campbell Smith, James Doig Junior
Clothier, James Duncan Junior Merchant, John Duff Junior Merchant, Thomas Dick Junior
Spirit Dealer, Patrick Duncan Brewer, George Duncan Haberdasher, James Duncan
Merchant, David Duncan Brewer, James Duncan Fish Curer, Alexander Edward Senior
Tobacconist, Alexander Edward Junior Tobacconist, Andrew Edie, Merchant, William Ellett
Merchant, William Fairweather Merchant, James Fairweather Junior Manufacturer,
Alexander Farquharson Candlemaker, Robert Farquharson Merchant, John Fenton
Manufacturer, David Fender Brewer, John Gray Merchant, Andrew Garland Tobacconist,
Robert Gowans Threadmaker, David Guillan Merchant, Patrick Gardener Grocer, Charles
Graham Esqr., George Gray Wood Merchant, John Hutchison Spirit Dealer, David Hackney
Soap Boiler, William Hackney merchant, David How Junior merchant, William Howe
Merchant, William Hutton Spirit Dealer, David Hutchison Grocer, James Hill Baker, William
Hogg Merchant, John How Junior Merchant, Joseph Johnstone Haberdasher, Thomas Ivory
Engineer, John Inglis Hosier, Robert John Merchant, David Jobson Banker, John Jobson
Esqr of Rosemount one of his Majesty’s Justices of the Peace for the County of Perth, John
Jolly Druggist, James Justice Ironmonger, James Ivory Esq Advocate, John Justice
Ironmonger, James Keiller Wood Merchant, Alexander Kay Merchant, Alexander Keay Spirit
Dealer, William Kermach Merchant, James Lawson Flesher, William Lindsay Merchant,
Edward Lesslie Bookseller, Alexander Lawson Ironmonger, John Luke Merchant, William
Low Auctioneer, William Lesslie Hosier, James Lindsay Grocer, John Low Junior
Haberdasher, David Mile Esq Banker, Thomas Mitchell Merchant, James Miln Ironmonger,
Robert Mudie Inn Keeper, Alexander Miln Merchant, David Maxwell Haberdasher, James
Mitchell Threadmaker, Robert Millar Merchant, Andrew Mount Cabinet Maker, William
Moncur Brewer, Thomas Malcolm Merchant Tailor, George Miln Insurance Broker, William
Mudie Manufacturer, Thomas Mudie Mealseller, John Maxwell Brewer, George Murdoch
Brewer, Patrick Miln Grocer, P. J. Miller Merchant, George Mathew Merchant, Daniel
Macintosh Brewer, John Moir Manufacturer, Mungo Morton Manufacturer, William Neish
Manufacturer, John Nicol Junior Merchant, James Nicol Merchant, William Nicol, Thomas
Neish Junior Insurance Broker, George Nicoll Grocer, James Nicoll Youngest Merchant,
Patrick Nimmo Surgeon, George Nicoll Youngest Grocer, Walter Newal merchant, Thomas
Neish Ship Owner, James Ogilvie Writer, James Peat Hosier, Alexander Pirie Manufacturer,
John Peter Merchant, James Pullar Junior Baker, Gilbert Pirie Manufacturer, William
Pitcairn Merchant, James Pullar Baker, Thomas Playfair Brewer, James Peter Merchant,
Charles Roger Tobacconist, William Rodger Writer, Alexander Reid Merchant, Thomas
Rattray Tobacconist, David Rea Confectioner, John Robertson Tobacconist, Thomas
Robertson Baker, Thomas Reid Haberdasher, Robert Ramsay Brewer, David Rattray Brewer,
Alexander Reid Merchant, William Roberts Banker, Robert Stirling Merchant, David Smart
Banker, John Sturrock Clothier, David Soot Grocer, William Shepherd Grocer, James Scott
Merchant, James Saunders Writer, Thomas Stewart Glover, Alexander Steuart Mealseller,
David Stephen Smith, James Smith Merchant, James Steuart Surgeon, James Steven, James
Soot Merchant, James Scott Merchant, George Stephen Ironmonger, Archibald Scott Grocer,
Patrick Smith Merchant, John Sturrock Brewer, James Saunders Tobacconist, James Smith
Merchant, Thomas Smart Writer, Robert Torbet Upholsterer, Robert Thornton Merchant,
John Taylor Hosier, John Thomson Grocer, William Taylor Auctioneer, John Tod Junior
Baler, Peter Thomson Manufacturer, James Webster Merchant, Thomas Webster Junior
Banker, Alexander Whyte Tobacconist, David Watson clothier, Patrick Whyte banker, Isaac
Watt Esq of Logie on of his Majesty’s Justices of the Peace for the County of Forfar, John
Wilson Merchant, John Watt Esqr of Dunmiln, William Watson Junior Merchant, Robert
Whitton Brewer, James Wighton Merchant, John Watson Tinsmith & Plumber, Thomas Watt
Merchant, George Webster Merchant, James Watt Merchant, William Watson Esq of
Whitfield and Balbeuchly one of his Majesty’s Justices of the Peace for the County of Forfar
(lately deceased), David Young, James Young Brewer, William Young Tailor.
227 members
The Committee resolved to present the following requisition to the Dean of Guild:
Sir
41

We the subscribing Members of the Guildry Corporation hereby intimate to you that at the
Meeting of the Corporation on the 7 8h primino, already advertised, there are certain
resolutions to be proposed and motions to be made with reference to the farther concluding of
the present process against the Magistrates, and also with reference to the Petition of the
Guildry to the Magistrates, and other measures connected with the Guildrys Interest.
We have therefore to request that you will make the necessary public intimation to the
Members of the Guildry.
We are Sir Your most obedt Servts
(Signed) William Roberts, James Duncan Junior, William Lindsay, John Croom, Henry Bell,
Thomas Watt, John Sturrock, William Ellet, Thomas Neish Jr., Edward Baxter, David Miln,
David Blair Jr., John Watt, James Saunders, James Crockat, James Soot, Joseph Johnstone,
James Doig Junior, Henry Blyth, James Watson.
Dundee 24 September 1817
At a Meeting of the Guildry Incorporation of Dundee held at Dundee the sixth day of October
1817 within the Ancient Operative Mason Lodge
In absence of Mr Robert Jobson the Preses Mr Wm Roberts was called to the Chair
John Jobson Esq., of Rosemount was unanimously elected preses for the ensuing year.
The Members of last years Committee were again elected as a Committee for the ensuing year
with the exception of Mr Patrick Anderson in place of whom was substituted Mr Patrick
Whitson present Dean of Guild.
Mr David Blair proposed that the meeting should proceed to the Toun Hall and attend the
Michaelmas Head Court which motion was carried and the Meeting then adjourned.
At a Meeting of the Guildry Committee held on the tenth of October 1817
22 members present
Mr David Jobson Preses
Mr Blair reported that he and Mr Miln had waited on Provost Riddoch this day to deliver a
letter subscribed by the Committee appointed at the General Meeting yesterday inclosing the
Resolutions of the Guildry. That before the letter was delivered but after some conversation
with the Provost, he stated that he had determined if the Council supported him, to appoint a
Committee to meet with the principal Inhabitants to concert measures for applying to the
King in Council to grant a Constitution to the borough similar to that Constitution lately
obtained for Montrose if it shall be approved by the Burgesses of Dundee, - and he wanted
Blair and Miln to insert the following letter:
Dundee October 9 1817
Gentlemen
In consequence of a conversation I had with you and several of my friends today, I beg to
acquaint you that I have resolved after calling a Council to be held on Monday first for the
purpose of submitting to them a proposal for appointing a Committee to meet with the
principal Inhabitants of Dundee to concert measures for making an application to the King in
Council to grant a Constitution for this Borough similar to the Constitution lately given to
Montrose, if it shall be approved of by the Burgesses of Dundee.
I have the honour to be &c. Alexr Riddoch Provost
To David Blair Jr and David Miln Esqrs Dundee
The Committee directed the Clerk not to insert the resolutions of the General Meeting in the
papers until the opinion of a General Meeting of the Guildry be obtained.
The Committee requested that Mr James Ivory Advocate would be so good as take into
consideration the New Set of the Borough of Montrose, and to report whether under all
circumstances such a set would be applicable to the case of Dundee or whether any
improvement may be suggested.
The thanks of the Meeting were unanimously voted to Messers Blair and Miln for their
conduct in the Conversation with the Provost.
42

At a General Meeting of the Guildry Incorporation of Dundee held within the Guild Hall of
Dundee upon Wednesday the eighth day of October in the year one thousand eight hundred
and seventeen at twelve o’clock noon in terms of the Act of Parliament passed in the fifty fifth
year of the Majesty’s reign entitled “An Act for improving the Harbour of Dundee in the
County of Forfar” and of an advertisement signed by Patrick Anderson late Dean of Guild,
dated the eighteenth day of September last and inserted in the Newspapers called the Dundee,
Perth and Cupar Advertiser published in Dundee on the nineteenth day of September last, and
also in terms of a requisition dated the twenty fourth day of September last signed by twenty
members agreeably to the bye laws enacted on the ninth day of October in the year One
thousand eight hundred and Sixteen. Which requisition having been submitted both to the
late Dean of Guild Anderson and the present Dean of Guild Whitson was refused to be
complied with by both of them, and thereafter it was regularly followed up and intimated and
advertised in the Dundee Perth and Cupar Advertiser of the twenty sixth September last in
terms of the said bye laws of the ninth October last by James Saunders Clerk to the Guildry
Committee.
The Dean of Guild protested against any other clause being introduced in the preamble than
that which regarded the election of Harbour Commissioners.
Present 124 members
Mr Small the Toun Clerk offered to act as the Clerk to the Meeting.
The Toun Clerks were called upon to show their authority to act as Clerks of this Meeting.
Mr James Ivory Advocate moved that as the Toun Clerks though called upon, produced no
Commission under which they are entitled to act as Clerks to the Guildry Incorporation as
they were never elected Clerks to the Incorporation itself, as they cannot have been so elected
by the Magistrates and Toun Council, or Dean of Guild all of who have denied, and are now
contending at Law that there is no such Corporation as the Guildry Incorporation at all, as
besides they avowedly act as the private assessors and advisers of the Dean of Guild with
whom the Incorporation is now engaged in a process of law; drawing out or assisting the Dean
to draw out his Protests against the Incorporation and giving advice in their individual slips
against the Incorporation proceedings, with which private assessorship and advice the
impartial duties of a Clerk are altogether incompatible; as the statute contains nothing which
in any shade takes from the Incorporation their right to elect their own Clerk, that therefore
and for all these reasons James Saunders Writer in Dundee be elected Clerk of the Meeting.
Mr Roberts seconded the motion.
The Dean of Guild called the roll and James Saunders was unanimously elected Clerk of the
Meeting; Patrick Anderson, George Thoms, David Blair, William Rodger. James Gray,
Kinnaird Brown, David Brown, David Hazel, Alexander Riddoch, George Clark, William Small
and William Barrie declined to vote; the latter stating as his reason, that he had acted at this
meeting as a Notary Public in taking a protest against certain proceedings.
The Dean of Guild stated that before the motion regarding the Clerk was put he had taken a
protest against the proceedings of the Meeting in electing a Clerk, in the hands of William
Barrie Notary Public, and he now protested against the proceedings for the reasons stated in
the following protest.
“I Patrick Whitson Dean of Guild protest against any other person than the Toun Clerks acting
as Clerks to the meeting. These Clerks have from time immemorial acted as Clerks to the Dean
of Guild and at all meetings of the Guildry, a part of their salary is paid and received for acting
as such. Besides the Dean of Guild is appointed by law to preside at the present Meeting has a
right to insist that the proceedings should be recorded by the usual Clerks who have been
from time immemorial recognised as ex officio Clerks to the Dean. I farther conceive it to be
totally incompetent for this present meeting to elect a Clerk, but if such election shall be
resorted to by the meeting. I protest that whatever may be the result I shall not by proceeding
with the statutory purpose of the meeting be held as recognising the right of the gentlemen
present to elect a Clerk to act at the present meeting. Om the contrary I reserve entire my
whole objections to such a nomination and protest that neither my privileges nor the
privileges of the Toun Council of Dundee of which I am a member shall be thereby in any
43

shape affected; my presiding after such a nomination being viewed by me as an act of illegal
coercion on the part of the meeting”.
The said Patrick Whitson Dean of Guild thereupon took instruments in the hands of William
Small Toun Clerk of Dundee and the said William Barrie in presence of the meeting and of
William Rodger Thomas Henderson Writers in Dundee. He also took instruments in the
hands of the said James Saunders as Clerk to this meeting, and protested farther that he
having taken instruments in the hands of James Saunders should not be construed into any
acknowledgement of his right to act as Clerk.
Mr William Roberts protested against Mr Whitson taking the Chair as Dean of Guild for the
reasons stated in the following protest, and took instruments in the hands the Clerk:
“I William Roberts Banker in Dundee and Member of the Guildry Incorporation for myself
and all other members who may adhere to me protest against Patrick Whitson officiating at
this Meeting in the Capacity of Dean of Guild for the following reasons and others to be given
in:
First Because by law of the land as well as by the terms of the different Charters erecting the
Guildry into an Incorporation, it is the undoubted right of the brethren of the Guild to elect
their own Dean whereas Mr Patrick Whitson has been forced upon us by the act of the
Magistrates and Council against the opinion of the Public; against the rights and privileges
and ardent wished of the Guildry under the ridiculous pretext that if the Guildry were to elect
their Dean it would introduce into the Council of the Burgh, anarchy and confusion, a pretext
which has been scouted by the Convention of Burghs, and if possible still farther exposed in
the expressive sentiment of the Prince Regent and Privy Council backed by the opinions of the
Attorney General of England, the Lord Advocate and Solicitor General of Scotland in the late
act changing the set of the Burgh of Montrose and granting the Inhabitants of that Toun a
liberal constitution, annihilating self election and reinstating the different bodies to the full
exercise of their elective franchise;
Second Because by the terms of the Harbour Statute it is not declared necessary that the Dean
of Guild shall preside in the election of the Harbour Commissioners”.
Mr James Ivory protested against Mr Patrick Whitson taking the Chair as Dean of Guild for
the reasons stated in the following protest and took instruments in the hands of the Clerk
“that he is unworthy and unfit to hold his office, in as much as he has denied the Guildry to be
an Incorporation at all, and he actually listed himself as a party against the Guildry in a
process where that plea is judicially maintained; farther in as much at the late Head Court of
this Burgh held on Monday last, he ranged himself in every question on the side of the
Magistrates against the Guildry, and in particular refused to accede to the reasonable prayer
of the Guildrys Petition and lastly in as much as at the same Head Court he refused to take the
usual protest at the Guildrys instance at least in their character of an Incorporation.
Mr James Ivory asked the Dean of Guild whether he had applied for a sist against the Guildry
to limit the proceeding of this Meeting and whether he had applied for and obtained an
opinion of Counsel in his capacity as Dean of Guild in regard to the proceedings of this day,
and demanded if he had obtained such an opinion in that capacity, that it should be produced.
The Dean of Guild stated that he had give no orders to apply for a sist and that if he had
obtained an opinion of Counsel no charge would be made of the Guildry funds for the expence
of that opinion as it was for the private regulation of his own conduct.
Mr John Sturrock moved the following resolution “that the Dean of Guild having consulted
Counsel apparently for the purpose of injuring the rights of the Corporation and having
refused to communicate the opinion to the Meeting thereby shows himself unworthy of the
confidence of the Incorporation”.
Mr Roberts seconded the motion.
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Mr Sturrocks motion was carried unanimously with the exception of the Dean of Guild, Mr
Pat Anderson and Mr Small who objected to the motion because it had no reference to the
business connected with the election of the Harbour commissioners.
Mr David Blair Junior intimated the following protest, and took instruments of the hands of
the Clerk.
“ I David Blair Junior Merchant in Dundee hereby intimate to you Patrick Whitson Dean of
Guild under protest that after the election of the Commissioners and any other business under
the Harbour Statute shall have been completed there is certain other business to be submitted
to the consideration of the Meeting, and in particular a motion for authorising and directing
you as Dean of the Guildry Incorporation to sist yourself as a party in the action presently
depending at the Guildrys instance against the Magistrates and Toun Council of this Burgh; I
protest you shall not leave this meeting until such business and motion have been disposed of,
or at least that your doing so shall be considered as an express refusal on your part to sist
yourself in the said process, and may be made use of accordingly. This I do because it has been
judicially denied by the Magistrates and Toun Council and by yourself among the number that
the Guildry ever authorised the said process at all, and because an objection has been started
in the same quarter in consequence of the Dean of Guild not being a party”.
The Dean of Guild stated that he had repeatedly required the Meeting to proceed to the
election of the Harbour Commissioners and he again called upon them to do so.
It was answered by Mr Jas. Ivory that the Meeting had been all along qualifying themselves
for the purpose of carrying through the statutory business in a regular manner, if time had
been taken up it had been with the disputes originating with the Dean himself, and with those
persons who unauthorisedly came forward as the Magisterially elected Clerks of this
Incorporation.
Mr David Miln Banker moved that the Gentlemen who are assembled at this meeting and who
had answered to their names are that body described in the Act of Parliament passed in the
fifty fifth year of his present Majesty’s Reign for the improvement of the Harbour of Dundee
as the Guildry Incorporation of Dundee, and are legally assembled as such in virtue of that Act
to elect their Commissioners under the Statute.
Mr Roberts seconded the motion.
The motion being put from the Chair by the Dean of Guild was unanimously carried.
Mr James Ivory moved that the Meeting do immediately proceed to the election of the
Harbour Commissioners and that the clauses in the Act of Parliament and the advertisements
be read to the Meeting.
Mr John Peter seconded the motion.
He motion was unanimously carried.
Mr James Ivory protested that if in consequence of the omission of the word “Incorporation”
from the advertisement, the election shall be rendered null, or any damage either directly or
indirectly shall be incurred by this Incorporation, that the late Dean of Guild Mr Patrick
Anderson who signs that advertisement shall be personally liable in the consequences and
took instruments on the hands of the Clerk.
The Minutes of the Meeting held on the ninth day of October in the year 1816 being read the
Clerk stated that he had been appointed by the Meeting of the 9 th October 1816 to keep a
faithful record of the proceedings of that Meeting; that he had kept a record of these
proceedings and had necessarily for a short time detained certain protests mentioned in the
Minutes recorded by the Toun Clerks to have been carried away, and when he offered these
documents to the Toun Clerks, they refused to receive them and said the Minutes were closed.
Mr David Blair Junior moved that as the Minutes of that Meeting had been some how or other
garbled, Mr Saunders who was Clerk of that meeting on the part of the Guildry, should, form
the record kept by him, insert a copy of the correct Minute as an appendix to the present
minute.
Mr Lindsay seconded the motion.
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The Dean of Guild stated that he would not sanction any proceedings said to have been taken
place at any former meeting to be introduced into, or appended to the Minutes of the present
Meeting; he submitted that the official minutes which were regularly subscribed and have
since been acted upon must be held to be the only regular record and exclusive evidence of
what then passed; and he protested against the motion and thereupon took instruments in the
hands of the Clerk.
Mr Patrick Anderson and Mr William Barrie objected for the same reasons.
The motion being put was unanimously carried with the exception of those persons who
objected to the motion as aforesaid.
The Meeting having proceeded to the election of the Commissioners the following Gentlemen
were viva voce put in nomination for the office of Commissioner: Messers William Lindsay,
David Blair Junior, John Sturrock, John Peter, William Bisset, John Croom, Henry Blyth,
Archibald Crichton, Andrew Garland, J. B. Miller, Edward Baxter, Robert Stirling, David
Martin, James Keiller, William Bell Senior, David Baxter, William Ellet, William Roberts,
Alexander Whyte, David Miln.
And the meeting having dispensed with balloting for the Candidates put on the list, the
meeting proceeded to elect five out of the Twenty to be Harbour Commissioners:
Messers Thomas Ivory, James Ivory, James Crockatt and John Cairncross were then
appointed Tellers and the ballot being concluded the Tellers reported to the Dean and to the
Meeting that he following Members were elected Commissioners for the ensuing year.
Messers William Lindsay, David Blair Junior, William Bisset, John Sturrock & John Peter.
Mr James Ivory moved that the Dean of Guild be instructed to suit himself as a party pursuer
in the action at the instance of the Guildry Incorporation against the Magistrates. Mr Thomas
Ivory seconded the motion which was carried.
The Dean of Guild declared the five Commissioners before named to be duly elected.
The Dean of Guild protested that no farther proceedings shall take place for the reasons stated
in the following protest, and took instruments in the hands of the Clerk.
The Dean of Guild here stated to the Meeting that the purpose thereof as specified in the
Harbour Act and in the foresaid advertisement published in the Newspapers in terms of the
Act having been accomplished by the nomination of Merchant Commissioners for the ensuing
year he required the Minutes of the Meeting to be delivered to him that he might authenticate
the same by his subscription which he was ready to do, and he protested that the omission so
to authenticate the said Minutes should not be attributed to him, and that such persons as
should oppose his subscribing the minutes at this time shall be liable in all costs skaith and
damage that might thereby incurred or sustained.
The Dean also declared the Meeting dissolved.
The Dean of Guild again requested that the minutes be laid before him to be signed.
(signed) Pat. Whitson D. G.
Mr James Ivory protested that the Dean of Guild should not leave the Chair, because there
was other business formerly intimated to him which had yet to be disposed of, and that if he
did leave the Meeting while the business was in its present unfinished state, the meeting
should still continue and be entitled to elect a vice Dean of Preses under whom the business
would be regularly brought to a close; and took instruments in the hands of the Clerk, after
the protest had been taken and instruments lodged with the Clerk in presence of the Dean of
Guild who was in the Chair; he, the Dean, during the time the Clerk was minting the protest
repeatedly called for Mr Small and his Successor and afterwards left the Room without
dissolving the Meeting or giving any intimation whether it was his intention to return or not.
Thereafter the Meeting without choosing a Preses deputed Mr David Blair Junior to wait upon
the Dean of Guild who was still in the adjoining Room (the Toun Clerks office) for the purpose
of putting to him the articulate question whether or not he did mean to return; and Mr Blair
having gone out and returned, reported that he had delivered the message of the meeting to
the Dean who gave for answer “that he did not mean to return just now”.
46

The Meeting thereupon at half an hour past seven o’clock unanimously elected Mr William
Lindsay to be Preses of the Meeting in the absence of the Dean, and that part of the Minute
which had been written after the Dean left the Chair was read to the Meeting and approved of
by them in presence of the Preses.
Mr Roberts moved that the Dean of Guild be severely censured not only for leaving the Chair
in the improper manner he had done; but also for the general opposition to the interests of the
Guildry Incorporation throughout the proceedings of this day.
Mr David Blair Junior seconded the motion which was carried unanimously.
Mr John Sturrock moved that the Dean of Guild shall order the Collector of the Guildry to
prepare the accounts of the Current year and to submit the same at Martinmas next to
Messers William Roberts, David Miln and David Blair Junior a committee hereby appointed
by the Guildry to examine these accounts, and that the said Committee be recommended to
see whether any attention has been paid to the remarks on the former accounts contained in
the following letter addressed by the Preses of a quarterly meeting of the Guildry
Incorporation to the late Dean of Guild Anderson:
Dundee April 1817
Sir
I am directed by the Guildry Incorporation to intimate to you that at their quarterly meeting
held this day the Guildry accounts for the year 1816 were laid before them; on which the
following observations were made:
1 st . That the balance brought from former accounts may of may not be correct; for the Meeting
had no documents before them to enable them to decide.
2. That charge of £35 paid to Messers Small and Henderson for opinion of Counsel on the
joint Memorial for the Toun council and Guildry ought not to have been stated against the
Guildry. The Guildry have already paid their half of the expence of their opinions; and the
other half ought to have been paid by the management of the Magistrates and Council.
3d. Credit is only given for four and a half per cent on the money lent to the Toun and Kirk
Session in place of five per cent. If the Toun Council cannot pay a higher rate of interest, the
money ought to be lent on other good security at five per cent the interest to be paid half
yearly.
4. The money deposited in the Bank at four per cent should be immediately lent out on good
security at fie per vent.
I am Your &c John Jobson Preses.
Mr Andrew Garland seconded the motion which was unanimously carried.
Mr David Blair Junior moved that a Preses of the Guildry be elected to sit in the Chair during
the following year, in the absence of the Dean of Guild and that a standing Committee be
appointed to attend to the General affairs of the Guildry; that John Jobson Esquire of
Rosemount shall be Preses and Messers Patrick Whitson, David Jobson, William Roberts,
John Croom, David Miln, John Sturrock, David Blair Junior, Thomas Mitchell. William
Bisset, Henry Blyth, John Peter, Thomas Ivory, Henry Bell, William Ellet, Archibald Crichton,
James Keiller, Thomas Neish Junior, James Duncan Junior, James Scoot, Wm. Lindsay,
Edward Baxter, William Cathro, Deacon of the Maltmen and James Saunders who shall also
be Clerk and Convener of the Committee, seven of the committee to be a quorum. That in the
event of there being no legal Assessors to the Dean of Guild or if these legal Assessors failing
to do their duty, the said Committee shall be Assessors to the Dean and shall exercise all the
functions of their office.
Mr Thomas Watt seconded the motion which was carried unanimously.
Mr David Blair then protested against the Dean of Guild acting without the advice of the
Assessors for the reason stated in the following protest:
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“I David Blair Junior Merchant in Dundee and Member of the Guildry Incorporation for
myself and of all other Members of the Incorporation who shall adhere to me protest that all
acts and deeds done by Mr Patrick Whitson Dean of Guild without advice and assistance of his
legal assessors, should there be any such, or in the event of there being no such legal assessors
or of their failing to do their duty, then without the advice and assistance of the Committee of
Assessors appointed by the Guildry this day shall be null and void, and that the said Mr
Patrick Whitson shall be personally liable in damage to the said Guildry Incorporation for all
acts or deeds which he shall do without consulting the said Assessors.”
All present adhered to the protest; Mr Blair took instruments in the hands of the Clerk.
Mr John Sturrock moved that the Gentlemen whose names are mentioned in the Summons of
Declarator against the Magistrates should be continued as a Committee for carrying on the
prosecution Vizt: Messers Robert Jobson, William Lindsay, John Sturrock, William Roberts,
David Miln, John Peter, David Blair Junior, William Ellet and William Cathro.
Mr David Cobb seconded the motion which was unanimously carried.
Mr William Roberts moved that Messers David Blair Junior, John Sturrock, and David Miln
be appointed a financial Committee to examine the accounts of the receipt and expenditure of
the Towns Revenue, and to report from time to time to the Guildry Incorporation.
Mr Croom seconded the motion with the amendment that Mr Roberts should be a Member of
that Committee and Convener thereof.
The motion with the amendment was unanimously carried.
Mr Roberts produced an extract of the Minute of the Head Court held on Monday last a copy
of which is appended to this Minute.
Mr Roberts then moved the following resolutions:
1. That at the Head Court on Monday last publicly and in face of the Burgesses there were
brought against Alexander Riddoch Esquire the Chief Magistrate of this Burgh in a regular
and official manner by a Constituent member of the Toun Council certain heavy charges of the
grossest malversation; - of having exposed to sale, and turned to his own private emolument
offices of which his political influence as a Magistrate gave him the nomination, - of having
entered into transactions as in name of the Community and afterwards appropriating to
himself the profit and advantages thence arising of having squandered the public revenue in
foolish and absurd speculations and then converting to his own individual use even the little
returns which these speculations afforded &c.
2d. That although repeatedly called upon to deny and refute these accusations, if they were
not true, - and thought it was solemnly and in face of Council intimated to him, that his
silence should be considered as assent – yet Mr Provost Riddoch refused to make any answer.
3. That the Guildry cannot bring themselves to believe that Mr Provost Riddoch should have
been guilty of all or any of the matters this publicly laid to his charge; but at the same time
they feel themselves called upon to state that considering the very public and deliberate
manner in which the charges were brought forward, it was a bounden duty not only to himself
but to the public whose officer he is - not to allow them to go forth without an express and
unequivocal contradiction.
4. That it will reflect disgrace upon the Toun, and may besides be of the most injurious
consequences to he interests, if such charges shall be suffered to remain uncontradicted, in as
much as its Chief Magistrate can be useful in his office only in so far as he is respected and it is
impossible to respect any man who lamely submits to labour under accusations so odious and
abominable.
5. That in these circumstances, the Guildry regard the conduct of Mr Provost Riddoch in
refusing all explanation on a subject of such vast and serious importance with feelings of the
most painful emotion and they trust if not yet too late, he will still see the propriety of taking
such measures, as may set the public mind at rest, and quash for ever the repetition of such
accusations.
48

6 th . That a Committee be appointed for the purpose of communicating these resolutions to Mr
Provost Riddoch in his capacity as Provost and Chief Magistrate.
And 7 th . In order that the Guildry may not seem to the public to take no concern in a matter
affecting so nearly the honour of the Toun that these resolutions by inserted in the Dundee
Perth and Cupar Advertiser.
Mr Henry Bell seconded these resolutions which were unanimously carried.
The Meeting appointed Messers David Blair Junior, William Roberts, John Sturrock and
David Miln as a Committee for the purpose mentioned in the Resolutions.
Mr Henry Bell moved the thanks of the meeting to Mr James Ivory Advocate for his able
support of the Guildry Incorporation throughout the discussions of the day.
Mr David Blair Junior seconded the motion which was unanimously carried.
Mr Srurrock moved the thanks of the Meeting to Mr Roberts for his zealous activity in the
affairs of the Guildry. Mr Blair seconded the motion which was unanimously carried.
Upon a motion it was unanimously agreed that the meeting do now adjourn till Monday the
third day of November next, then to assemble in the Guild Hall if they shall not be excluded
from it by the Magistrates, otherwise in the Operative Mason Lodge Overgate at ten o’clock
forenoon for the dispatch of business.
(signed) William Lindsay Preses.
The Preses having left the Chair Mr James Ivory moved the thanks of the Meeting to him for
his impartial conduct as Preses.
Mr William Bell Senior seconded the motion which was unanimously carried.
Minute of Meeting of Council
Referred to in the foregoing Minute
At Dundee the sixth day of October
Eighteen hundred and seventeen years
Which day Provost, Magistrates and remanent members of the Town Council of Dundee and
Deacons of Crafts having met and convened in Council consulting about the ordinary affairs of
the Burgh.
The Deacons of Crafts who were present were all duly qualified to His Majesty King George
the Third by taking and swearing the oaths of allegiance, and abjuration, and signing the same
together with the assurance. The Minutes of the Toun Council of the twenty fifth and thirtieth
September last were read in Council. Patrick Whitson Dean of Guild protested that nothing
should be done in this Head Court prejudicial to the ancient rights and establishments of the
Guildry and thereupon took instruments. Deacon Robert Mudie asked under protest,
First. Whether Dean of Guild Whitson protested in the name of the Guildry as a Corporation
or not as a Corporation.
Second. Whether the Magistrates & Council who style themselves Assessors to the Dean of
Guild consider themselves in that capacity as part of the Guildry Corporation or not part of
the Corporation.
Third. Whether the Magistrates and Council have authorised their Agents in the process with
the Guildry to deny that the Guildry is a Corporation.
He moved that these questions be put on the record and answered immediately which motion
was seconded in due form.
Provost Riddoch moved that these questions should not be answered by the Council which
motion was also seconded in due form.
The questions were then read and the motion whether the questions should be answered or
not having put to the vote all the members present voted negative except the Deacons of the
49

Bakers, Cordiners, Tailors, Bonnetmakers, Fleshers, Hammermen, Weavers and Waulkers
who voted in the affirmative. In the course of the votes Messers John Crichton, David Blair,
George Thom and William Barrie retired from the Council; but before exiting Mr Thoms and
Mr Barrie voted on the first and second questions. Mr Barrie declined to vote on the third
question.
Thereafter Provost Riddoch moved that the above questions (which were written on a
separate paper) together with the state of the votes therein should not be recorded in the
Minute; which motion having been seconded, and put to the vote, all the members present
voted in the affirmative except the Deacons of the Bakers, Cordiners, Tailors, Bonnetmakers,
Fleshers, Hammermen, Weavers and Waulkers who voted in the negative.
When the Deacon of the Weavers was called upon for his vote, he requested to be heard by
Counsel, and he was heard by James Ivory Esq Advocate against the motion. Thereafter at the
recommendation of the Clerk, Provost Riddoch proposed to withdraw his motion which was
objected to by Deacon Mudie who stated that as the vote had been taken on the motion, it
must stand unless repealed by the Council. The Counsel then unanimously repealed the
resolution which had been passed upon Provost Riddoch's motion; and directed Deacon
Mudies questions with the state of the votes therein to be recorded in this Minute.
Deacon Mudie asked whether Mr Barrie had been sent to Edinburgh by order of the Council to
obtain a sist from the Court of Session against any proceedings at the Meeting of the Guildry
Incorporation which is to be held on Wednesday next, and protested that if this were the case,
those who sent him on that business should be liable in the expences which might thereby be
incurred inasmuch as it appeared from the two last Minutes of Council which had been this
day read that the Council had not authorised Mr Barrie to go to Edinburgh in that or any other
business and hereupon took instruments.
To this question no answer was returned by the Council, and the same question having been
put to the Clerk, he answered that he did not know that Mr Barrie had been sent to Edinburgh
by the council to obtain a sist as stated in the question.
Mr John Crichton returned and took his Seat in Council.
Deacon Mudie farther protested that if by the instruction of any individual members of the
Council, and without the legal authority of a formal act of Council, a sist or interdict shall have
been applied for either directly or indirectly as in name of the Magistrates and Toun Council
against any of the Guildrys proceedings on Wednesday first and shall then to attempt to be
enforced, the expence of such unauthorised suspension or interdict shall not be defrayed out
of the public purse, but the private individuals applying for it shall by be personally subjected
not only in these expences but in any claim of Damages which the Guildry may have in
consequence of the said unauthorised Suspension or Interdict being unlawfully put in force.
Deacon Robert Mudie in his own name and in name of Convener Gellatly, Deacon Hog and all
others adhering read a protest signed by him and by James Gellatly Convener as approven of
by the General Meeting of which he demanded requisition and craved Extracts and thereupon
took instruments. He then delivered the Protest to the Clerk to be subjoined to his Minute.
Deacon Mudie read a Protest by James Gellatly Deacon Convener of the Nine Incorporated
Trades of Dundee in their name and as instructed by them at a meeting this day in common
Hall assembled and thereupon took instruments. Deacon Mudie then delivered the Protest to
the Clerk to be subjoined to the Minutes.
Deacon Mudie moved that all the Touns Accounts for the last yen years with the Vouchers
thereof, should be produced in Council at the Head Court to be held in January in the year
1818 and afterwards exhibited to the Burgesses of Dundee for their inspection which motion
was seconded.
Provost Riddoch moved as an amendment, that as the Touns Accounts and Vouchers for
former years have already been examined and discharged they should not be again produced,
but that the Touns accounts and vouchers thereof for the Current year ending at Martinmas
50

next, which have not yet been audited with a full statement of the Touns affairs should be
produced to the Head Court to be held in January next and afterwards exhibited in the Toun
Hall for the inspection of all concerned. Which motion was also seconded. And it being agreed
that the question should be put for the motion or amendment, all the members present,
including David Blair who had returned, voted for the amendment, except the Deacon of the
Baxters, Cordiners, Tailors, Bonnet Makers, Hammermen, Fleshers, Weavers and Waulkers,
who voted for the motion, also except Mr John Crichton who declined to vote. The
amendment therefore was carried by a majority. Before the question was put, the Deacons of
the Glovers and Fleshers had returned to the Council.
Mr John Crichton at the same time that he declined to vote on the above question moved that
an order to put an end to the misunderstanding which subsists between the Council and the
Public the Council do now resolve to carry into execution the resolutions of the Council of the
Ninth of August 1815 and to rescind the Resolution of the Council of the twentieth of March
1816, which motion was seconded.
Provost Riddoch moved as an amendment that the object of the motion was of so great
importance, that it would require farther time to consider it, and therefore that the
Consideration of it should be deferred to another meeting of Council, which motion was also
seconded, and the vote having been put all the members present voted for the amendment
except Mr Crichton and the Deacons of the Baxters, Cordiners, Tailors, Bonnet Makers,
Hammermen, Fleshers, Weavers and Waulkers, who voted for the motion. The amendment
therefore was carried by a majority of three.
A Petition by the Burgesses or Inhabitants of Dundee not Members of the Guildry
Incorporation addressed to the Honourable the Magistrates and Toun Council of Dundee was
read in Council. Thereafter Deacon Mudie moved that the same with the Petition lately
presented by the Guildry of Dundee should be taken into consideration, and that the Council
grant the Prayers thereof.
Provost Riddoch moved as an amendment that the Petitions of the Guildry and Burgesses of
Dundee be on the table for farther consideration. Which motion was also seconded and the
vote having been put, all the members present voted for the amendment except Mr Crichton
and Mr Ogilvie and the Deacons of the Baxters, Cordiners, Tailors, Bonnet Makers,
Hammermen, Fleshers, Weavers and Waulkers, who voted for the motion. The amendment
therefore was carried by a majority of one.
Deacon Mudie moved that both Petitions be taken into consideration by the Council and
Trades this day four weeks, and then disposed of by them as they may think proper and that
the present meeting of the Council and Trades be adjourned till that day. And the vote having
been put all the members present voted for the amendment except Mr Crichton and the
Deacons of the Baxters, Cordiners, Tailors, Bonnet Makers, Hammermen, Fleshers, Weavers
and Waulkers, who voted for the motion. The amendment therefore carried by a majority of
three.
On the motion of Deacon Mudie the thanks of the meeting were unanimously voted to Mr
Small the Clerk for his impartial conduct this day.
The following is a copy of the Protest taken by Deacon Mudie referred to in the foregoing
Minute.
“I Robert Mudie Deacon of the Weaver Trade in my own name, in name of Convener Gellatly,
Deacon Hogg, and of all others adhering, do hereby represent to you Alexander Riddoch
present Provost of Dundee, to you David Brown, Patrick Anderson, David Hazel, and James
Gray present Bailies and you the remanent members of the Toun Council of Dundee that by
the Statute 42 Geo III under which your Honours have been in the practice of levying a duty of
two pennies Scots on the pint of Ale, there are appointed certain Parliamentary
Commissioners to superintend the Collection of said duty, and the application of Revenue
thence arising to public purposes, and in short to watch over and control the whole
management and administration of your Honours thereanent.
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That the said Parliamentary Commissioners have never been convened, but your Honours and
your predecessors in office have, in the face of the said Act of Parliament, openly dared to levy
the said duty and to apply the said Revenue in the most arbitrary manner, without any legal
sanction whatever, and to the utter annihilation of that salutary control which the said Act of
Parliament points at. That in the circumstances the collection of said duty is highly
reprehensible however it may have been applied and the persons collecting it have exposed
themselves to a personal liability in so doing. That it is proper and essential to the welfare of
the Community that the same lawless course of proceeding be no longer continued, but be put
a stop to without delay. And I therefore now require you the said Provost, Magistrates and
Toun Council not only to forthwith cease from the collection of the said duties until you shall
have convened and received the sanction of the said Parliamentary Commissioners, but
likewise to take such steps as may be requested for calling your Honours predecessors to
account for their illegal improper conduct. And I protest that if notwithstanding the
requisition, you shall refuse to do as hereby required and shall proceed in the levying and
collection without calling together and receiving the sanction of the said Parliamentary
Commissioners you shall and each of you be personally both not only in repetition of whatever
sum shall be so levied but likewise in all skaith and damages which may accrue to the
Community thought your lawless and open contempt of the foresaid Act of parliament. And
farther I protest that if you fail to institute the foresaid necessary proceedings against your
said predecessors as also before required, you shall farther all and each of you be personally
liable in the consequences of this farther neglect of your manifest duty. Thereupon and upon
all and sundry the premises I take instruments in the hands of William Small Esquire Toun
Clerk in presence of the hail Magistrates, Toun Council and Deacons of Trades in a full
Convention of Council assembled this sixth day of October One thousand eight hundred and
seventeen years I demand registration hereof and crave Extracts (signed) Robert Mudie
Deacon.”
The following is a copy of the Protest taken by Convener Gellatly referred to in the foregoing
Minute.
“I James Gellatly Deacon Convener of the Nine Incorporated Trades of Dundee Do in their
name and as instructed to at a meeting this day in the Common Hall assembled protest that
nothing shall be done at this meeting nor at any meeting of the Toun Council during the
administration of the present Magistracy which may in anyways infringe upon or prejudice
the rights and privileges of the said Nine Trades. And I protest farther that the Convener and
Deacons of the said Nine Trades are by law entitled annually to see and audit the Touns
Accounts; that they have been formerly acknowledged as such by repeated acts of Council and
were even in practice never extruded from the exercise of so important a duty until the affairs
of the Burgh fell under the present arbitrary system of misrule by the overwhelming and
exclusive undue influence that has so notoriously been acquired by one man Provost
Alexander Riddoch, that from the present acknowledged state of the Burgh funds, labouring
as they confusedly do under an annual deficit of more than two hundred pounds Sterling, in
providing for the discharge of which, the said Nine Trades are bound and obliged along with
the said Magistrates and Toun Council it is become indispensably necessary that the said
Convener and Deacons be restored to the full exercise of their rights in the character of
Auditors, for without that it is impossible they can have any control over and expenditure
which cuts deeply not only on the public welfare, but also on the separate and individual
interests of the said Nine Trades: that the fate of the Burgh System of administration of
Aberdeen as acknowledged and accounted for by an official document of the Magistrates of
that place themselves clearly and unequivocally points out the extreme danger of trusting to a
self elected Magistracy and the Nine Trades feel that danger to be the more urgent in this
Burgh because the Burgh accounts are not regularly audited and sanctioned by the
Magistrates and Toun Council themselves; nay it is a notorious fact that when presented to be
passed they are not even allowed to be read over to the Members of Council; that in this way it
has so happened that the Burgh funds have fallen under the private and exclusive
management of a single individual, the said Provost Alexander Riddoch whose intromissions
have received no check nor even been enquired into for a series of years – that excepting the
sd Provost Alexander Riddoch there is not another person in Council who can pretend to the
smallest knowledge of the state of the Burgh affairs, and the very Treasurer of the Toun kept
in a state of such complete and utter ignorance that his office in fact has become nothing but a
name. That upon one late occasion, it is notorious that when a gentleman who dared to think
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a little more for himself than the present cyphers of the Council was elected to the said office
of Treasurer, he was so disgusted at the manner in which things were carried on, and so
convinced that he could not in consisting with his duty to the public, retain the name of an
officer whose functions he was not permitted to fulfil that he absolutely and positively
declined to act longer in the council. And yet notwithstanding the sense this strongly marked
of the illegality of the said Provost Alexander Riddoch’s proceedings and the necessity of an
immediate reform, no step was ever taken either by the Magistrates or Council to place
matters on a more regular and less arbitrary footing that the same system of the grossest
negligence and misrule still continues and so openly is it avowed that the Treasurer has
nothing to do with the Burgh accounts either as to receipt or expenditure that the later
Treasurer was allowed to retire form his office at Michaelmas without a single document
being called in for, a single voucher examined or any account whatever being audited; that
such a gross and unheard of negligence of the public interest is a palpable and direct
malversation in office, and is no longer to be endured, and the more especially as there is now
the most pregnant reason to fear from its continuance and annually increasing deficit in the
Burgh Revenue, and in the end a complete and inevitable Bankruptcy. In these circumstances
therefore I do hereby in name and behalf aforesaid solemnly and under instrument require
that immediate redress be given in the premises and I protest that unless the said Convener
and Deacons be forthwith permitted as formerly regularly to audit and examine the whole
Toun Accounts, and to compare them with the vouchers thereof, and unless the management
of the said accounts be restored to the Toun Treasurer as the only proper and responsible
officer every individual both of the Magistracy and Council who sanctions the docqueting of
any pretended accounts more especially without ever having them read, shall be personally
liable for the consequence of this inexcusable neglect of the public interest and undoubted
malversation in office, and shall be subject at all times personally to account to the Burgesses
and Community not only for any sums improperly expended and not sufficiently vouched, but
likewise for such sums as may have been neglected to be levied, or to be turned to the best
account, and generally for the whole foresaid annual deficit in the Burgh Revenue and
whatever other skaith and damages may be sustained. Thereupon and upon all and sundry the
premises I in name and behalf foresaid take instruments in the hands of William Small
Esquire Toun Clerk this sixth day of October in the year one thousand eight hundred and
seventeen.
(signed) James Gellatly Convener.”
At a Meeting of the Assessors to the Dean of Guild held in the Guild Hall on Tuesday the 14 th
day of October 1817 called by a requisition of the Dean of Guild of which the following is a
copy. “To the Assessors of the Guildry Incorporation Gentlemen You are requested to meet
this evening at eight o’clock. I am Gentlemen Your most obeat Sert (signed) Patrick Whitson
D.G.” list of Assessors annexed to the Dean of Guilds requisition
Messers John Jobson, William Roberts, David Miln, James Blair Junior, William Bisset, John
Peter, Henry Bell, Archd. Crichton, Thomas Watt, John Watt, James Duncan Junior, William
Lindsay, William Cathro. David Jobson, John Croom, John Sturrock, Thomas Mitchell, Henry
Blyth, Thomas Ivory, William Ellet, Thomas Neish Junior, James Soot, Edward Baxter, James
Saunders.
Present
All the above with the exception of Henry Bell, Archibald Crichton, William Lindsay and
with the addition of David Baxter
An apology having been stated for the Dean of Guild who could not attend this Meeting from
indisposition John Jobson Esquire was unanimously called to the Chair.
A Meeting of the Toun Council held on the thirteenth current was read to the Meeting which
the Assessors deemed to be their duty to submit to the General Meeting of the Guildry
Incorporation called by the Dean of Guild and to be held tomorrow at ten o’clock.
The Meeting adjourned.
At a General Meeting of the Guildry Incorporation held within the Guild Hall on Wednesday
the 15 th October Current in consequence of the following Requisition from the Dean of Guild.
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“To the Guildry Incorporation of Dundee; Gentlemen I request that you will assemble in the
Guild Hall tomorrow at ten o’clock forenoon when business of importance will be submitted
to the Meeting. I am &c Pat Whitson D.G.”
The Meeting unanimously made choice of Mr Saunders to be Clerk to the Meeting.
The following Minute of the Toun Council held on the 13t October was read to the Meeting.
“At Dundee the thirteenth day of October in the year 1817
Sederunt of Council
Alexander Riddoch Esquire Provost
James Smith Councillor to the Guild
David Brown
John Calman Treasurer
Patrick Anderson
James Smith Jr Shoremaster
David hazel
John Guild
James Gray
Archd, Ogilvie Merchant Councillor
Pat Whitson Dean of Guild
William Barrie Merchant Councillor
George Thoms old Bailie & Councillor
Kinnaird Brown Trades Councillor
John Crichton old Bailie & Councillor
David Hill Trades Councillor
Trades
Bakers Tailors Hammermen
Cordiners Bonnetmakers Weavers
Glovers Fleshers Waulkers
The Minute of the last Meeting of Council held upon the Sixth day of October Current was
read:
Provost Riddoch made the following address and motion
“Gentlemen
I have assembled the Council for the purpose of considering the expediency of applying to the
King in Council for a new Set or Constitution for Dundee. I feel it incumbent on me fully to
explain my reasons for proposing a change of such importance to the Toun and I hope that I
shall meet with the indulgence of the Council if in the course of my explanation I shall have
reason to say a few words of myself.
By the present set the Burgesses have no voice either in the election of the Council or in the
administration of the affairs of the Burgh. This System has long been complained of by the
Inhabitants and occurrences which happened centuries ago have of late tended very much to
increase the general discontent. From inattention to their interests the Guildry in the year
1606 allowed the election of their Dean to be transferred to the Council, to whom afterwards
they also relinquished the management of their funds, and although the Council seemed still
inclined to recognise the Guildry by appointing a number of their members to be Assessors to
the Dean it is now a considerable time since they exercised even that last vestige of their
rights. About three years ago however a number of Gentlemen belonging to that Body evinced
a determination to resume their ancient privileges, and after a good seal of discussion the
Council on the Ninth of August 1815 recognised first the justice and expediency of the
Guildrys resuming the election of the Assessors to the Dean of Guild, their Collector and
officers and the management of their own funds; and secondly the justice and expediency of
the Guildry electing their own Dean. But from the length of time that had elapsed since the
Guildry had exercised that right the Council were then not prepared to say that a recognition
of it by them alone would be sufficient to enable the Council to receive as one of their
Members if Dean elected by the Guildry. In that measure I heartily agreed with the Members
of the Council. But certain circumstances afterwards occurred which induced us to alter our
opinion. The Council were moved to adopt the Resolution solely by the justice of the Guildrys
claim: but as appears from the Resolution itself they were unacquainted with the extent of
their powers and on farther consideration and of advice which they conceived to be sound
they were led to entertain serious doubts whether by attempting to alter a part of the System
of Borough Government they would not give rise to farther innovations which might affect a
branch of the Constitution of the Country, besides they had also doubts whether the change
would be satisfactory to the Inhabitants at large. Under these circumstances the Council on
the 20 th of March rescinded the Resolution of 9 th August. In consequence of this last act the
Guildry commenced a Process before the Court of Session for the recovery of their funds and
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power to manage their own affairs. In the course of this litigation and connected with it a very
keen and party spirited discussion took place which has fermented other disputes, and set the
greater part of the people in opposition to the Council in their public character while as
private individuals the held as respectable a rank in Society and actually were as much
respected as their fellow Citizens. But however much these disputed are to be deplored yet if
the Council could not consistently with their duty comply with the wishes of the people – if
they still were of opinion that the demands of the Guildry could not be granted without
offending other classes of the Community – and above all if they still thought the concession
would in any way injure the higher interests of the Country I should not hesitate to declare
that the Council would be bound to resist the demand. I am however happy to state that no
such necessity now exists. The number and high respectability of the Gentlemen who have
signed the Petitions for the Guildry and Burgesses which now be on the Table obviate every
doubt as to the unanimity of the Toun and the Constitution lately granted by the King in
Council to Montrose affords the most satisfactory proof that his Majestys Government so far
from opposing highly approve of the Scots Boroughs themselves reforming their own Sets
agreeably to the wish of the Inhabitants. I therefore see no good reason which the Council of
Dundee can have for continuing the present Contest with the Guildry. Indeed I am clearly of
opinion that the best interests of the Toun demand that a much greater change than what that
body has asked should be made upon the Set. At present some of the most desirable public
improvements are prevented. The very limited revenue of the Toun renders it necessary to
procure an act for paving, lighting and cleaning the Streets and for establishing a Police but
the Inhabitants seem determined to withhold their aid from this and every other public
undertakings long as they are denied a share in the administration of the Touns affairs; and
measures of so great importance cannot be carried thro’ without their cordial assistance and
support.
It is however not without a great sacrifice of personal feelings to an imperative sense of duty
that I bring forward such a proposal at this particular time. The Council were aware that from
the beginning of the political disputes which now agitate the Toun the System has been
attacked chiefly through the Members of Council; and that almost the whole force of the
opposition has been directed against me as Chief Magistrate or as your supposed Leader. I
have been charged with various acts of malversation; on these grounds protests have been
taken against me in Parliament. On my own part and acting by advice which I consider good I
did not deign to answer the accusations alluded to, bur resolved to wait while they should
assume the shape of a regular action or complaint when I intended to meet and repel them in
the competent Court. I appeal to all who now hear me whether I have ever shrunk from those
charges or taken any steps to smother them. On the contrary I have allowed every facility to
their being made public and have never objected to anything against me personally being put
on the Records of the Toun feeling conscious that at the proper time I should be able
completely to wipe them off and vindicate my character from every aspersion. In a few months
the period of my services as Provost will have expired and on my finally retiring from Office
the Records of all the acts of a long public life will be open to he inspection of my successors
but I am not afraid of the result of any investigation they may be pleased to institute. It will be
found I hope that while I was in Council the funds of the Toun have been husbanded with a
most frugal hand, and if one of the charges against me, that I have been the Leader of the
Council for forty years be true I shall be entitled some merit for having out of a Revenue more
scanty than that of any other Toun of equal size in Scotland, expended very considerable sums
on making the Streets in widening old ones, and otherwise improving the Borough without
diminishing the Public resources, for notwithstanding some late attempts that the Toun is
approaching to Bankruptcy I am proud to say that while the Debt has increased not more than
£2000 Stg during the last twenty four years property has been added to the amount of nearly
three times that sum. In 1793 the Debt was £14000 and it is still only £16000 Stg.
Therefore without seeking on the one hand to shelter myself from the unfounded charges
alluded to and of the other regardless of the construction which may be put on my conduct by
those who are prejudiced on favour of the present Borough System I conscious of the purity of
my motives, and having no other view in end than the public good, Move that the Council
shall call a Meeting of the Burgesses of Dundee resident within the Royalty, or actually
carrying on Trade there though resident in the Suburbs to be held in the Steeple Church on
Wednesday the twenty ninth Current at eleven o’clock forenoon for appointing a Committee
of their number to meet with a Committee of the Council for the purpose of framing a new Set
or Constitution for Dundee similar to one lately given to Montrose to be afterwards submitted
55

to the Council and Burgesses for their approbation and when approved of that a Petition by
the Council and all parties concerned shall be forthwith presented to the King in Council
praying his Majesty to sanction and confirm the alteration agreed upon.”
The motion was seconded by Deacon Mudie and unanimously agreed to by the Council.
The Council appoint the present Magistrates, Dean of Guild, Treasurer, Hospital Master and
Mr Small one of the Town Clerks to be the Committee of Council for meeting with the
Committee of the Burgesses for the above purpose, a majority of them to be a quorum. The
Senior Magistrate in Toun for the time being to be Convener.
The Council authorize the above Committee to make the necessary arrangements for
convening the Burgesses, and ascertaining previous to the Meeting who are Burgesses and to
give them Tickets of Admission it being declared that no person shall be allowed to attend the
Meeting without a Ticket of Admission signed by one of the Committee.
Thereafter Provost Riddoch moved that the Council shall authorize the said Committee to
meet with the Guildry or their Committee and make arrangements with them for delivering
over the funds, Books and papers of the Guildry to the Dean of Guild and to the Assessors who
were chosen by them at their Meeting on the eighth instant. This Motion was seconded by
Deacon Mudie and agreed to unanimously.
It was moved, seconded and agreed to that the thanks of the Council and Trades be given to
Provost Riddoch for the very clear and manly retrospect given by him of he proceedings of the
Council regarding the System or Set of the Burgh, the liberal and disinterested view he had
taken of the necessary alterations and the comprehensive plan of Reform on which this
motion is founded.
The Council repeated the Resolution of the last Meeting of Council to take the Petitions of the
Guildry and Burgesses into consideration that day four Weeks.”
Mr James Ivory thereupon moved the following Resolution.
1 st That the Guildry hail with feelings of unmingled satisfaction this new era in their history;
when after the lapse of so many years of disuse they are again enabled to stand forth as a
distinct and independent Corporation and to resume their ancient rights and privileges as
such.
2d That they feel still higher satisfaction in the new situation in which they are thus placed
because after a protracted and very painful and distressing contest with the Magistrates it
restores peace and harmony to the Toun – and because it has been brought about in strict
accordance with the unanimous voice of the whole Community.
3 rd That the Guildry own their best thanks to he Convener, Deacons, and Members of the Nine
Incorporated Trades for the spirited and increasing support which through the struggle now
so happily terminated they have received from that Body.
4 th That the Guildry vote their cordial thanks to the Provost, Magistrates and Toun Council for
having at length yielded to the decided and unanimous expression of the public sentiment in
favour of a reformation in the Borough Set thereby not only removing the existing cause of all
those differences and heartburnings which had already subsisted but too long, but likewise
restoring their own claims to public favour to a basis on which the claims of the Magistrates
should always rest – the gratitude and confidence of their Constituents.
5 th That these Resolutions be communicated in the proper manner to the Nine Incorporated
Trades, and Magistrates and Council, and that they also be published on the Dundee Perth
and Cupar Advertiser.
Mr David Blair Junior seconded the Resolutions which were unanimously carried.
It was stated that in consequence of Provost Riddoch’s letter the Committee of the Guildry
have unanimously resolved not to publish the Resolutions passed at the last General Meeting.
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Mr David Blair Jr thereupon moved the following Resolution. That the Guildry unanimously
approve of the conduct of the Guildry Committee in suppressing the publication of the
Resolutions passed at the Meeting of the Guildry Incorporation held on the eighth Current.
The Motion was seconded and unanimously adopted.
Mr David Blair Junior stated circumstances had taken place at a Meeting between Mr David
Miln and himself and Provost Riddoch whereat the Provost had addressed the following
Letter to them:
“Gentlemen
In consequence of a conversation which I had with you and several of my friends today I beg
to acquaint you that I have resolved upon calling a Council to be held on Monday first for the
purpose of submitting to them a proposal for appointing a Committee to meet with the
principal Inhabitants of Dundee to concert assures for making an application to the King in
Council to grant a Constitution for the Borough similar to the Constitution lately given to
Montrose, if it shall be approved of by the Burgesses of Dundee. I have the honour to be
Gentlemen Your very Obedt Serv (signed) Alex Riddoch P.
Dundee Octr 9 1817
To David Blair Junior and David Miln Esquire Dundee.”
Mr James Ivory thereupon moved the thanks of the Meeting to Messers Blair and Miln for
their able and conciliatory conduct in their conference with the Provost, which in the first
place gave rise to his letter of the Ninth of October and ultimately led to the very satisfactory
and liberal Minute of Council submitted to this Meeting. The motion being seconded was
unanimously carried.
The Assessors present were sworn de fideli administratione.
It was unanimously agreed that the Assessors seven of whom to be a Quorum, and John
Jobson Esquire Convener, shall be a Committee to meet with the Committee of Council as
expressed in their Minute of the thirteenth Current to arrange the business of receiving the
papers Books and other documents belonging to the Incorporation, as well as the funds and
with power to grant a Discharge to the Magistrates and Council for their intromissions hereto
fore which Discharge shall be binding on the Incorporation.
Mr Ivory moved that the Committee appointed to carry on the process against the Magistrates
and Council shall suspend proceedings for the present and ultimately when the Magistrates
and Council shall be discharged withdraw the process.
It was agreed that the Dean and his Assessors shall attend the first Meeting of Council and to
present to that body the Resolutions of this Meeting by Mr Ivory.
The Meeting agreed that a Copy of these resolutions subscribed by the Dean and Clerk shall be
sent to the Convener of the Nine Trades.
The thanks of the Meeting were voted to the Dean of Guild for his impartial conduct in the
Chair.
At a Meeting of Committees of the Toun Council and Guildry Incorporation held in the Guild
Hall of Dundee the twenty second day of October 1817
William Bisset
Andrew Garland
John Croom
William Ellet
Present
Bailies David Brown
Patrick Anderson
Dean of Guild Patrick Whitson
William Small Toun Clerk
Messers
John Jobson
Henry Blyth
Edward Baxter
Thomas Neish Junior
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Henry Bell
Thomas Ivory
William Cathro
John Sturrock
James Keiller
John Peter
James Soot
Thomas Mitchell
David Blair Jr.
William Lindsay
Archd. Crichton
Mr Whitson Dean of Guild in the Chair
Bailie Brown stated that the Meeting had been called in consequence of a Letter from Mr John
Jobson Convener of the Guildry Committee addressed to Provost Riddoch to make
arrangements regarding the delivery of the funds books and papers to the Guildry
Incorporation in terms of the Resolutions of the Toun Council. Bailie Brown then stated that
these funds books and papers would be delivered to the Guildry Incorporation at the term of
Martinmas next on condition that the Incorporation shall undertake all obligations come
under by the Toun Council on account of the Guildry while they managed the affairs of that
Incorporation and grant a Discharge in favour of the Magistrates and Council of their
intromissions, with the funds of the Guildry and their management of the Guildry concerns
preceding the said term of Martinmas; The Members of the Committee of the Guildry as well
as of the Committee of the Toun Council unanimously approved of Bailie Browns proposal.
With regard to the money belonging to the Guildry in the hands of the Toun and Kirk Fabric
the Guildry Committee were unanimously of opinion that such money may remain on the
same Bond will Whitsunday next bearing interest at four and a half per cent if the Toun
Council chose to keep it.
The Joint Meeting directed the Toun Clerk to prepare the necessary discharge to the Toun
council and Mr James Saunders to revise the Deed.
(signed) Pat. Whiston D.G.
John Jobson Convener if G.C.
58