RTE No 20 Interior - Road to Emmaus Journal

A JOURNAL OF ORTHODOX FAITH AND CULTURERoad to Emmaussample issue

A JOURNAL OF ORTHODOX FAITH AND CULTURERoad to EmmausSAMPLE ISSUEcontentsChrist the Medicine of Life:The Syriac Fathers on the Lord’s Descent Into HellCroagh Patrick:The Glorious Climb Climb of Ireland’s Holy MountainThe Astonishing Missionary Adventures of The Apostle AndrewTaybeh’s Plea for The Last Christians of The Holy LandNatural Conception, Natural Birth: The New Hope for InfertilityOptina’s Second SpringTalking to Muslims about Christianity: Orthodoxy in IndonesiaSouls in Motion: The Spiritual Life of TeenagersMet. Kallistos Ware on PersonhoodFrom Jainism to Orthodoxy: An Indian PassageThe Golden Thread of Faith: Mental Illness and The SoulTo Be Free or Not to Be: Welsh Christianity at The CrossroadsAngels of AkunFaith Unseen: Crypto-Christians of Pontus

CHRIST,THE MEDICINEOF LIFE:The Syriac Fathers onthe Lord’s Descent Into HellPresently working on her D. Phil. at Oxford University, England, Russian Orthodox Syriacscholar Irina Kukota delves into the writings of the Syriac fathers on the Lord’s descent intohell, the Church’s traditional teaching on the afterlife, and the effects of contemporaryChristian eschatology. With clear insight and warm faith, Irina compounds the spiritualwealth of the patristic East into an accessible and healing balm for the soul.RTE: Irina, your work is quite intriguing because most of us don’t often thinkof the implications of the Lord’s descent into hell. Can you summarize thetradition for us? I’m sure it is much richer than the passing thought most ofus give it during the Paschal services.IRINA: Yes, this is absolutely true. How many times during Easter liturgy dowe hear that Christ descended into Hades (the Greek word for the underworld)and broke “the gates of bronze and the bars of iron.” Even afterEaster and Pentecost, for example, during liturgy on the Feast of All Saints,we sing this in services. So, it is true that we hear about the descent often,but I’ve noticed that many people have difficulty explaining why.The tradition of Christ’s descent into hell (Hades in Greek, Sheol in Syriac)is an ancient one and it had a very profound meaning for early Christians. Wecan find early references to the descent already in the gospels and epistles.The basic text for the tradition is from the first epistle of St. Peter:For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for theunrighteous, in order to bring you to God. He was put to death in theflesh, but made alive in the spirit, in which also He went and made aDescent into Hades – Resurrection, 1320, Pech Patriarchate, Serbia.17

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 1 (#20)CHRIST, THE MEDICINE OF LIFEproclamation to the spirits in prison, who in former times did not obey,when God waited patiently in the days of Noah… (I Peter 3:18-20)But they will have to give an accounting to Him who stands ready tojudge the living and the dead. For this is the reason the gospel wasproclaimed even to the dead, so that, though they had been judged inthe flesh as everyone is judged, they might live in the spirit as Goddoes. (I Peter 4:6)Other texts connected with the descent are Rom. 10:6-7 1 , Col. 1:18 2 , Eph.4:7-10 3 , and Mt. 27:51-53 4 . Also, we should mention two texts to which thetradition of Christ breaking the gates of brass and the bars of iron owes itsorigin: Psalm 106/7:15-16 5 and Psalm 23/24:7-10 6 .Some modern western scholars argue that this passage in I Peter is not atall about the descent into Hades. However, both eastern and westernfathers refer to it in their writings. There is further evidence that lays to restscholarly doubts: if one looks at the Peshitta, the Bible in Syriac, one readsthere that Christ descended to Sheol. Thus, I Peter 3:19 reads:And He preached to these souls who were kept closedin Sheol, those who previously had been disobedientin the days of Noah.In investigating the Syriac tradition, you see a textual tradition forming asearly as the second century, developing Biblical passages favouring theinterpretation of Christ’s descent into Sheol.1 Rom. 10:6-7: But the righteousness that comes from faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who willascend into heaven?' or 'Who will descend into the abyss?’.”2 Col. 1:18: He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so thatHe might come to have first place in everything.3 Eph. 4:7-10: But each of us was given grace according to the measure of Christ's gift. Therefore it is said,“When He ascended on high He made captivity itself a captive; He gave gifts to His people.” When it says,“He ascended,” what does it mean but that He had also descended into the lower parts of the earth? Hewho descended is the same one who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.4 Mt. 27:51-53: At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earthshook, and the rocks were split. The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallenasleep were raised. After His resurrection they came out of the tombs and entered the holy city andappeared to many.5 Psalm 106/107:15-16: Let them thank the LORD for His steadfast love, for His wonderful works tohumankind. For He shatters the doors of bronze, and cuts in two the bars of iron.6 Ps. 23/24:7-10: Lift up your heads, O gates! and be lifted up, O ancient doors! that the King of glory maycome in. Who is the King of glory? The LORD, strong and mighty, the LORD, mighty in battle. Lift up yourheads, O gates! and be lifted up, O ancient doors! that the King of glory may come in. Who is this King ofglory? The LORD of hosts, He is the King of glory.RTE: What led you to the Syriac tradition, and why did you choose the Syriacfathers as the focus of your studies?IRINA: Syriac is the eastern dialect of Aramaic, the language spoken by our LordHimself, and I wanted to read the Gospel in this language to be able to perceivehow the words of Christ sounded. And of course, the meaning of some obscurepassages becomes much clearer if you read them in the original.I did not become attracted to the Syriac fathers right away, although certainly,I knew a little about St. Ephrem the Syrian and St. Isaac the Syrian,as they are very honoured saints in the Orthodox tradition. However, as Iwent on, I grew more andmore fascinated with theSyriac tradition, partlybecause the Syriac fatherstend to be poetic, ratherthan rational and logical intheir approach. This doesnot mean that they areillogical, but their logic isbased on an inner association,born out of prayer and Irina Kukotathe knowledge of God. It allows one to see deep connections between biblicalpassages, church dogmas, and the world around us. You may havealready noticed how closely packed their writings are with symbolism andtheological insight. I was amazed to discover an inner cohesion between thebiblical narratives that I had never previously suspected.We still know very little about the Syriac tradition, which is a stimulus tolearn and discover more about it. Not only do the Syriac fathers explicitly referto the biblical sources, but the theme of the descent is central to the theologyof the Syrian Church, and the link between the incarnation of Christ and Hisdescent into Sheol is expressed more strongly here than anywhere else.Syriac Christians preserved ancient Judaic notions of Sheol (or Hades) as adesignation of sin, illness, ignorance, darkness, and utter forsakenness byGod, and in their homilies these notions are bound very closely together. InJudaism, God does not reach Sheol, so souls there live in oblivion; deathreigns over both sinners and righteous with no distinction between them.Thus, in descending to Sheol, Christ showed His utmost compassion towards1819

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 1 (#20)humanity as well as His divinity. According to the Syriac tradition, the mysteryof the incarnation is expressed in the succession of Christ’s descents: Hisdescent into a body (incarnation itself), His descent into the Jordan (the baptismand sanctification of the waters which, in the Syrian tradition, representthe power of chaos and death and are also associated with Hades), and Hisdescent into Sheol, where Christ recovers Adam, the first man.However, in reading the Syriac fathers, it is not always clear precisely whoChrist led out of Sheol. In Syriac, as in Hebrew, the word Adam can designateeither the first man or humanity as a whole, as a generic notion. This dualusage generated two views on who was taken by Christ to Paradise after Hisdescent. Authors such as St. Ephrem the Syrian hold that Christ has taken allwho sojourned in Hades with Him to Paradise, while other authors, likeAphrahat, insist that He took only Adam, Eve, and the righteous with Him.So, the descent into Sheol is viewed as a pinnacle of salvation in the Syriantradition. Christ defeats death (and thereby the sin through which deathentered into the world), thus liberating all of humanity from darkness, slaveryto sin, and death, bringing salvation and illumination to the entire human race.I was very touched when I first read these lines about Christ’s descent inthe poem of Jacob of Serugh 7 :He went down to the sea of the dead to be baptized likeThose who bathe;He brought up from thence the pearl, Adam, depicted in His own image.St. Ephrem the Syrian, the poetic genius of the Syrians, mentions thedescent of Christ into Sheol in his Hymns on the Resurrection 1:8, 14-15:From on high He came down as Lord,From the womb He came forth as a servantDeath knelt before Him in Sheol,And Life worshipped Him in His resurrection.Blessed is His victory! …He did not shrink from the unclean,He did not turn away from sinners,In the sincere He greatly delighted,At the simple He greatly rejoiced.Blessed is His teaching!7 Brock, S.P., “Baptismal Themes in the Writings of St. Jacob of Serugh”, OCA 199 (1978), pp. 325-347.20

CHRIST, THE MEDICINE OF LIFEHe did not hold back His footsteps from the sick,or His words from the simple;He extended His descent to the lowly,And His ascension to the highest.Blessed is His sender!There is another wonderful hymn, very rich in imagery, composed by MarIsaac (presumably Isaac of Antioch):In it, in Nisan 8 , the earth bore Adam from nothing,And by that type, on a day of Nisan, baptism has borne us.For the time of Nisan is like a time of revival,In which the plants are revived like the dead from the tombs.In it the earth bore Adam; in it the tomb bore our LordIn it the church bears its children; in it the dust bears everyone.In it was Adam’s beginning; in it was Christ’s beginning.In Nisan Gabriel announced Him, and in Nisan He died and was revived.In Nisan was Adam’s birthday; in Nisan was Adam’s revival.In it the beginning was formed; in it the end will be appointed.St. EphremCOURTESY HOLY TRANSFIGURATION MONASTERYRTE: What other early Church writers commented on the descent into Hades?IRINA: One such writer is Tatian, the 2nd century Syrian Christian apologist,who is best known as having been a pupil of Justin Martyr 9 and for compilingthe first gospel harmony (an early Christian practice of “harmonizing” thefour gospels into one book) called the Diatessaron. It seems plausible thatTatian already knew of the interpretation of Psalm 106/7 in the context of thedescent of Christ. In the Greek tradition, the earliest direct and clear interpretationof I Peter 3:19 arises in connection with Christ’s descent into Hades ina quote by Clement of Alexandria in his Stromata (VI. 6. 37-39) as well as inhis Adumbrationes. We also find a reference to I Peter 3:19 in the EasterHomily written by St. Hippolytus of Rome. The Shepherd of Hermas (dated to150 A.D.) mentions the descent of Christ and the baptism of the dead in Sim.IX 16:5. Another famous reference can be found in the homily On Pascha byBishop Melito of Sardis. The usual context for references to the descent intoHades are commentaries and sermons during the Easter vigil and on thesacrament of baptism. In ancient times, of course, people were baptized after8 April.9 The Anchor Bible Dictionary, ed. Freedman, D.N., vol. VI, New York: 1996, p. 335.23

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 1 (#20)CHRIST, THE MEDICINE OF LIFEGreat Lent, during the Easter vigil, after which they had their firstCommunion; it must have been a very revealing experience for them.Simply naming the fathers who mention the descent of Christ into Hadesin their homilies makes quite a long list. There are: St. Cyril of Alexandria,who writes that Christ accepted death according to the divine plan of salvationin order to destroy the dominion of death; St. John Chrysostom, in hisCatechetical Homily on Holy Easter which we read in church every Pascha;St. Gregory of Nyssa in On Holy Pascha and On Three Days Among theDead; St. Cyril of Jerusalem in the Catecheses to the Illumined; St. Basil theGreat; St. John of Damascus; and St. Nicodemus of the Holy Mountain.Among the Syriac Fathers we can list St. Ephrem the Syrian, Narsai, Jacobof Serugh, St. Isaac the Syrian, and many others. Also, there are veryancient documents such as the Odes of Solomon and the Acts of Thomasthat speak of the descent of Christ into Hades, as well as Eusebius in hisEcclesiastical History.This is only the beginning of the list I could have made, and you can concludefrom this how important this subject was for early Christians and howclosely connected it was with the mystery of Christ’s Resurrection and oursalvation history.Contemporary Christianityand the Descent into HellRTE: How do contemporary western Christians view the descent into hell,and how does this differ from those who adhere closer to the eastern Syriactraditions?IRINA: From what I have seen, contemporary views on the descent into hellamong Orthodox, Catholics, and Protestants are largely confused. Somepeople do not even connect the descent into hell with the work of salvationdone by Christ. It somehow exists as a separate appendage in their mindand from time to time takes the form of an unanswered question.One can say that in the first three centuries the interpretations of thedescent were very similar in both East and West. The Eastern Orthodox stillhold to that earlier view. However, in the fourth and fifth centuries, the Westbegan leaning towards a more legalistic understanding of this teaching, andthe circle of those saved by Christ through His descent into hell became narrowerand narrower. First, one excludes those sinners who are doomed toeternal suffering, then those who are in purgatory, then unchristened babies.Eventually, the descent became understood as the liberation of humanityfrom the effect of the general original sin, but not so-called “personal sins.”In Catholicism, the teaching on the descent is more of an answer about thestate and condition of the faithful departed. Mostly, the descent serves as ananswer to the question of what happened to those righteous and godly peoplewho lived before Christ, and indicates that Christ saved them. InCatholic teaching it also opens the way to the idea of purgatory.It is difficult to say what this teaching means for Protestants, some ofwhom do not acknowledge the descent at all. Theological objections aresometimes based on the grounds that for Christ to have descended into hell,He would have to have borne God’s “curse.” John Calvin observed that thosewho hold this objection “have never earnestly considered what it is or meansthat we have been redeemed from God’s judgment. Yet this is our wisdom:duly to feel how much our salvation cost the Son of God.” Calvin’s conclusion,therefore, is that Christ’s descent into Hell was necessary for atonement,because Christ did in fact endure the penalty for the sins of the redeemed.According to this view, Christ has led out of hell only those who were initiallypredestined for salvation. However, this view is unacceptable and distorted.God did not want to show us how much our salvation cost the Son of God.The whole act of salvation rather shows how much we as His creation costand mean to Him – that He sent His only-begotten Son to experience death.I cannot say what the psychology or attitude of a Syriac Christian mightbe, and I do not wish to speculate. However, one could suggest that becausethis teaching on the descent of Christ still holds a prominent place in thespiritual life of the Syriac Churches, it surely inspires hope and paschal joyin the hearts of the people, as it does among many Orthodox, eastern andwestern. The wall that separated God and humanity has fallen, and theboundless mercy of God has been revealed to us; death and sin weredeprived of their power, which proved to be illusory. Although they seem tocontinue to reign in the world we know that God alone is the ruler of the universe.I would presume that the tone of a Syriac Christian’s faith may bemore life-asserting and spontaneous in expressing their love for God. Thereis more hope and trust in such an outlook; it is pervaded by a feeling of particularcloseness and gratitude to God.2425

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 1 (#20)The Syriac tradition speaks of Christ taking the Old Testament righteouswith Adam. The tragedy of the Old Testament was that it had lost the ideaof God as a loving father. Even the righteous were subject to this spiritualdeath: they were deprived of the joy of spontaneous communication withGod. Old Adam is the symbol of this old mankind; Christ is the one whobecame “the second Adam,” or according to the expression of St. Ephrem,the firstborn of Sheol 10 , after His descent and resurrection. Now He is theAlpha and Omega, the first and the last man who overcame endless deathand revealed God as a loving father to the whole of humanity. Thus, thedescent into Sheol continues to be perceived as an event which had tremendousmeaning for the whole cosmos and all of creation 11 .For me, this is summed up by lines from the Book of Wisdom 1:12-16:Do not court death by the errors of your ways,Nor invite destruction through the work of your hands.For God did not make Death,He takes no pleasure in destroying the living.To exist – for this He created all things;The creatures of the world have health in them,In them is no fatal poison,And Hades has no power over the world:For uprightness is immortal.The Traditions of Hades,Sheol, Gehenna, and HellRTE: Irina, can you explain to us the difference between Hades, Sheol, and Hell?IRINA: This is a very serious question, and I am afraid my answer will bequite long. First, let us deal with the terms for the underworld and how theydeveloped historically. The Greek name for the underworld, where it wasbelieved that everyone went after death, was Hades. In ancient Greekmythology Hades (or “gloomy Hades,” as they usually called it) was the nameof the underworld ruler who ruled the land of the dead. This land was full of10 See 1 Cor. 15: 20,23, 45, 4711 Alfeyev, Hilarion, Khristos-Pobeditel’ Ada, St.-Petersburg: 2001, p. 30726The souls of the righteous in the hand of God,15th century. Mansija Monastery, Serbia.

CHRIST, THE MEDICINE OF LIFEterrors and monsters. The Odyssey mentions two kinds of dead. First, thehuman souls (of every sort) who wander without punishment but are weariedby their memories of life. Their existence is shadow-like, they lament the factthat they have had to leave their dear ones, or if they died young, that theydid not live long enough to enjoy their lives; their spirits are appeased if sacrificesand libations are offered for them on their graves. Some authors(among them Pseudo-Clement) mention that the land of the dead is in thewest or on the western side of the Ocean (“Ocean” was a mythic notion, aswell). Also in Hades were the superhuman rebels (the so-called “Titans”) sentencedto undying exertions for insubordination to Zeus and transgression ofthe divine order. Actually, in Greek mythology the Titans were beneathHades in Tartarus, a fearful dungeon. Only later does the idea of the ElysianFields (or Elysium) appear. This is the land of the virtuous dead and ofheroes, who enjoy abundance and beauty after their earthly death.In the patristic times these pagan ideas about Hades were abandoned, orrather, transformed. However, the name of the place often remained in Greekwritings: Hades was the place where everyone went after their death, awaitingthe Last Judgement, although the Christian view of this state differed greatlyfrom that of the ancient Greeks. The concept of Hades as the place where soulsgo after death appears in the Septuagint as the Hebrew “Sheol.”Sheol appears in the Hebrew-language Bible as a proper name, without anarticle, and it is apparently feminine 12 in Is. 5:14; 14:9; Ps. 86:13; and Job26:6. The whole earth is seen as Sheol’s belly (Ex. 15:12). Sheol has manydisguises. It was often called a pit, which was usually imagined as a vast subterraneancave with a narrow mouth like a well. It was also called a prison,a fortified city, and we hear of the “miry waters of Sheol.”In Hebrew usage (and later also in Syriac), Sheol and Death refer to thecondition of diminished life. Sheol means danger, illness, death. Life meansfertility, light and order. Just the fact of being alive had moral qualities foran ancient Jew, and the idea of the living God and the abode of the deadessentially exclude each other in Hebrew thought. Just as the fullness of lifeimplies the presence of Yahweh, so the sojourn in Sheol connotes Hisabsence. Sheol is Sheol because the living God is not there.Death and God’s grace excluded each other in this outlook. In dying, aman lost his full relationship to God, which explains the complaint that thedead cannot praise Yahweh. Even the righteous went to Sheol after their12 Nicholas J. Tromp, Primitive Conceptions of Death and the Nether World in the Old Testament, Rome: 1969.St. Issac the Syrian29

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 1 (#20)CHRIST, THE MEDICINE OF LIFEdeath, “to the land of gloom and deep darkness, the land of gloom andchaos, where light is as darkness” (Job 10:21-22). In Hebrew thought, all ofthe dead sojourned in Sheol without any difference of rank, position, ormoral life. Death was the great leveler.Sheol was a negative counterpart of the earth; being chaotic, it wasapproached via negations. It was furnished with negative experiences (asopposed to the favourable ones on earth) that corresponded to the griefs ofthis life. In fact, misery on earth anticipated the stay in the kingdom of death.A reduced shadow-like existence faced the individual in Sheol; he still lived,but did not possess the fullness of earthly life. 13 According to Ecclesiastes9:10, in Sheol “there is no work, no device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom…”Besides Sheol, death itself was experienced not as an abstract power or anexplicable fate, but as a personal reality, the Archenemy, the King, theShepherd, or as a threatening demon whose abode is Sheol. This explainswhy death is alluded to rather than discussed. The devil, the personificationof moral evil, is also associated with death and Sheol. The use of the samesymbols and metaphors for the three of them (e.g. the devouring lion) suggestsa close connection between them.This was the oldest notion of Sheol, but it is clear that this conception createda number of theological problems: an apparent restriction of Yahweh’somnipotence, as well as raising questions concerning the necessity of virtuein earthly life.Later, the Book of Watchers in I Enoch distinguishes between Sheol andGehenna. Gehenna was a name for the place of punishment of the damnedand comes from the Hebrew gê-hinnom (Neh. 11:30), or the longer form gêben-hinnom(Jos. 15:8) and gê-benê-hinnom (IV Kings 23:10) “valley of thesons of Hinnom.” Hinnom seems to be the name of a person not otherwiseknown. The Valley of Hinnom is south of Jerusalem and is now called Wadier-rababi. In earlier days it was notorious as the scene of the horrible worshipof Moloch. For this reason it was defiled by Josiah (IV Kings 23:10),cursed by Jeremiah (Jer. 7:31-33), and held in abomination by the Jews,who, accordingly, used the name of this valley to designate the abode of thedamned (Targ Jon, Gen. 3:24; Enoch 36).I Enoch is one of the earliest documents speaking of such divisions amongthe dead (Ch. 18-21). It was under the influence of apocalyptic trends thatthe traditional view of Sheol and the afterlife began to change. In these texts13 Robert Ombres, Theology of Purgatory, Dublin: 1978, p. 17.we read about men who are not shades, but conscious beings with theircharacters, individuality and moral qualities. 14 Some texts, such as Enoch,also mention the division between the righteous and the evildoers in Sheolafter their death, e.g. 2 Baruch 54.15 15 :For though Adam first sinned and brought untimely death upon all,yet of those who were born from Him each one of them has preparedfor his own soul torment to come, and again each one of them has chosenfor himself glories to come.These multiple notions of Sheol from the Hebrew were inherited early on byChristians in Syria. Early Syriac Fathers use much the same imagery.St. Ephrem speaks of Sheol as a place where Death, Satan, and sin dwell, as wellas their myrmidons – various sorts of demons. Death (as well as Sheol) is anaggressive, dangerous attacking power which destroys life. As Christ both diedand was killed, so He perceived the horror and aggression of death, the weightof sin working on an innocent man; He partook of the whole tragedy of death.The bounds of human nature were accepted and transformed from within byHim. So, the teaching on the descent is primarily an emphasis on life, on Christconquering Sheol and death and releasing their prisoners (i.e. the dead). Theearliest authors say that all of the prisoners of Sheol were released and taken byChrist to Paradise. St. Ephrem mentions that after the descent, Sheol was totallyemptied: only Satan, sin and evil demons were left there.Both Hades and Sheol are usually rendered as “hell” in the western tradition,and the word itself is of pagan origin. The term hell is cognate to “hole”(cavern) and “hollow.” It is a substantive formed from the Anglo-Saxon helanor behelian, “to hide.” Thus, it denotes a dark and hidden place. InScandinavian mythology, Hell was also a goddess of the underworld. In laterChristian Europe, “hell” came to mean both Sheol and Gehenna, or if we usethe Greek, both Hades and Tartarus. Although in the West we now commonlyuse hell to mean any place or state of suffering in the afterlife, and we evenspeak of Christ’s descent into hell, it is important to remember that heavenand hell, in their fullness, will not begin until after the Last Judgement.14 Robert Ombres, Theology of Purgatory, Dublin: 1978, p. 1715 Charles, R.H., ed. The Apocrypha and Pseudoepigrapha of the Old Testament, vol. II, p. 274.3031

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 1 (#20)The Christian AfterlifeAccording to the Church fathers, the afterlife we experience after deathbut before the Last Judgement differs from the ancient Greek idea ofHades, where the soul has no volition, no fullness of life. This is not theChristian notion of the afterlife! The life of the soul after death is in onesense a continuation of its life on earth, with its acquired passions andvirtues. If death radically changed the nature of the soul, this would violatethe soul’s freedom. However, according to the fathers, after death the powersof the soul are restricted. It can no longer repair its evil deeds on earth(alas!), or initiate a good action by its own will, but it can pray, asking Christfor forgiveness and help for itself and others.Orthodox Church tradition most commonly teaches that after the soulleaves the body, the souls of both the righteous and the sinners are in a stateof waiting for the Last Judgement when they will be reunited with their transfiguredbodies. There are exceptions, such as the Theotokos, the Mother ofGod, who was borne body and soul by the angels directly into heaven. As formost of us, they say, we remain in this condition of waiting until the LastJudgement. Those who have lived their present life with virtue and werepleasing to God, are anchored after death in the “bosom of Abraham,” that is,in a spiritual place of blessedness. The impious will be in a worse place. St.Athanasius teaches that after death the righteous experience a “partial enjoyment,”while the sinners experience a “partial judgement.”RTE: And when and how did the teaching on the toll houses arise?IRINA: If we are to discuss the toll houses, we first have to clarify that this traditionis not a dogma of the Orthodox Church, nor an official teaching, but arecurring idea in Orthodox tradition. St. Cyril of Alexandria gives one of ourearliest references to ordeals at the toll houses, through which the soul passesascending to the throne of God, but this tradition began to flourish onlyafter the popularization of the Ordeals of the Blessed Theodora. This was nota text in its own right, but a famous passage from the tenth-century Life ofBasil the Younger (a Byzantine saint of Constantinople who reposed in 944)on the vision granted to Basil’s disciple, Gregory, about the fate of Basil’s formermaid, Theodora, after her death. She revealed her fate to him in a dreamand he wrote her story down. The idea developed that the soul after its deathabandons the body and passes through toll-houses where it is questioned by32The Good Shephard, 1773, St. John the Theologian Monastery, Patmos.

CHRIST, THE MEDICINE OF LIFEdemons about its life and deeds on earth. The idea of the toll houses may bederived from an ancient tradition that people are questioned about theirdeeds on earth by demons; and the guardian angels or saints, or both, helpthem to answer these questions, remembering each kind deed the person haddone in earthly life, but had since forgotten or did not even suspect. To put itroughly, we have two antagonist parties struggling for the soul. That is whysouls leave these toll houses rather exhausted. If the kind deeds and virtuesof the soul are more than its sins, that is, if the affinity of the soul inclinesmore to light than to darkness, the soul will enter Paradise.I do not know if such a teaching was known in ancient Syria. The ideasfound in the Life of Basil the Younger were popularized by Bishop IgnatyBrianchaninov in early 19th-century Russia.RTE: Irina, a moment ago you spoke of the “partial judgement” of St.Athanasius. How does this differ from the “particular judgement” of theRoman Catholic Church, and their teaching on purgatory?IRINA: This Orthodox reference to the partial judgement is based on Heb. 9:27“since human beings die only once, after which comes judgement.” However,the Apostle Paul did not say that this judgement would immediately followdeath. So, in this case there may be two possible interpretations here: eitherthe apostle meant the Last Judgement, or when a person’s life and actions aretheir own judgement, as expressed in John 3:18: “no one who believes in Himwill be judged; but whoever does not believe is judged already.”In Roman Catholic theology, those souls destined for heaven (with a fewexceptions) must endure a state of purgation, or purification. In classicalCatholic thought this was explained as an expiation or atonement for unrepentedsins committed during one’s earthly life. This is a kind of time-limitedhell during which the soul becomes fully cleansed and acceptable foradmission to heaven. Thus, in Catholic thought, purgatory is not a middlestate between heaven and hell; one goes there to be fitted for life in heaven.Souls are sanctified in purgatory, and, indeed, purgatory is viewed as thefinal stage of sanctification. “All who die in God’s grace and friendship, butstill imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; butafter death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessaryto enter the joy of heaven” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, pg. 1030). So,in Catholic teaching, purgatory is the place where already saved souls arecleansed of the temporal effects of sin before they are allowed to see the holySt. John Chrysostom35

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 1 (#20)CHRIST, THE MEDICINE OF LIFEface of Almighty God. This idea is based on the text of Revelation 21:27,which says, “...nothing unclean will enter [heaven].” Because some have aprevision of the glory to come and others foretaste their suffering, the stateof waiting for the Final Judgement and reunion with the transfigured bodyis called the “Particular Judgement,” which, as you mentioned, is notaccepted in Orthodox teaching, where a human being is seen as a psychosomaticunity, which means that soul cannot be judged without its instrument,the body.Prominent Orthodox theologian Bishop Kallistos of Dioklea acknowledgesthat there exist various theological views on the life of the soul afterdeath, but he adds, “Today most if not all Orthodox theologians reject theidea of purgatory, at least in its [Catholic] form.” 16 That is, they reject theteaching that the soul must render “satisfaction” or “atonement.”The Roman Catholic teaching remained consistent with what I have justdescribed until, in a talk on purgatory to Catholic pilgrims to Rome in July of1999, Pope John Paul II came very close to the Orthodox position. The ideasof Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger are also consistent with this new directionin Catholic thinking. In his book on eschatology, Ratzinger describes purgatoryas a fiery, transforming encounter with Christ and His love:“Purgatory is not, as Tertullian thought, some kind of supra-worldlyconcentration camp where one is forced to undergo punishments in amore or less arbitrary fashion. Rather it is the inwardly necessaryprocess of transformation in which a person becomes capable of Christ,capable of God [i.e., capable of full unity with Christ and God] and thuscapable of unity with the whole communion of saints. Simply to look atpeople with any degree of realism at all is to grasp the necessity of sucha process. It does not replace grace by works, but allows the former toachieve its full victory precisely as grace. What actually saves is the fullassent of faith. But in most of us, that basic option is buried under agreat deal of wood, hay, and straw. Only with difficulty can it peer outfrom behind the latticework of an egoism we are powerless to pull downwith our own hands. Man is the recipient of the divine mercy, yet thisdoes not exonerate him from the need to be transformed. Encounterwith the Lord is this transformation. It is the fire that burns away ourdross and re-forms us to be vessels of eternal joy.”16 Ware, T., The Orthodox Church: New Edition, New York: 1997, p. 255.I find it quite inspiring that such currents of thought exist in the modernCatholic Church. However, in my view, one fine point still remains: inOrthodoxy it is not God who asks recompense or expiation and sends a soulfor either temporal cleansing or eternal punishment. St. Isaac the Syriansays, “God is not One who requites evil, but He sets evil aright.” Christ is ouronly atonement and satisfaction. Thus, sufferings of the soul beyond thegrave are the result of its own doing, its own choice (which, as it seems to me,the tradition of the toll houses strives to express). It is a soul’s “toll” to theworld, to mortality, to the moral feebleness and evil to which the soul wassubjected in earthly life. This seems logical to me and is perhaps consistentwith the sense of the popular phrase: “like attracts like.” But we can andshould pray for the reposed, in hope of a change of their state for the better.RTE: You’ve spoken of Orthodox and Catholic teaching on the afterlife, butmany western countries are more heavily influenced by Protestant thinking,particularly by the fearful Calvinist-shaded views that seem to drift throughthe background of popular western Christian thought.IRINA: Yes, I feel that, too. First of all, it shows up in exceedingly judgmentalattitudes towards other people. I’m thinking particularly of discussionsI’ve heard among some Orthodox about whether certain people (still living!)will be saved, which is futile and strongly reeks of Calvinism. Unfortunately,it is forgotten that “for every unfounded word people utter they will answeron Judgement Day” (Mt. 12:36) and “the judgements you give are thejudgements you will get” (Mt. 7:2). Christ is very careful with a human soul,He is “gentle and humble in heart” (Mt. 11:29). “He will not break thecrushed reed, or snuff the faltering wick” (Mt. 12:20). “And you will findrest for your souls,” He promises to those who bring their burdens to Him(Mt. 11:28). The person who loves us knows us inwardly. So does God. Goddoes not spy on us counting our sins; for Him it is just enough to cast a lookat us. He calls us to come to Him and bring our burdens to Him. Christ healsour wounds and sins.The division of souls into the categories of “redeemed” and “damned” beforethe Final Judgement has drastic consequences for Christians. This is notaccording to the Gospel (Mt. 18:12-14; Mt. 13:24-30), and in holding suchopinions Christianity ceases to be the religion of love and openness towardsGod and our fellow humans. It stops being a religion of “only one Master and…all brothers” (Mt. 23:8). Instead of love towards one’s neighbour it degener-3637

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 1 (#20)ates into counting his sins, whether real or imaginary. Christ died for that person,we didn’t. He is God’s creation; God alone knows each heart and Healone can decide a soul’s fate. We can only pray for one another.Praying for the DeadRTE: Since you’ve brought this up, both Orthodox and Roman Catholics believethat prayers for the departed have an effect before the Final Judgement. Wouldyou comment briefly on what the Church fathers say about this?IRINA: Church tradition says that the soul of the departed cannot change ofits own accord in the other world and acquire what it had never had inearthly life. The soul continues to live in the same state after death as it didon earth. Those who believed in God and tried to fulfill His commandmentsfeel His presence and rejoice. Those who, because of their sins did not perceiveGod as a loving Father do not feel this joy. For this reason the soulneeds help from outside itself. This help it receives through the Saviour whodescended into hell, and through the Church, for He is the Head of theChurch. It is naïve to think that we pray to God to mollify Him and makeHim more merciful towards our beloved departed. God is boundless loveand does not need our requests in order to love His creation. Our prayersdo not make God more merciful, but rather, seem to help change for thebetter the souls about whom we pray. St. Mark of Ephesus says that thesouls of the dead are purified through the power of prayers on their behalf.If we pray for them, it seems that their inner disposition can somehowchange, so that they can begin to pray with us. 17The early Christian Church was fully aware of the importance of prayersfor the dead. That is what we find in the writings of such fathers as St. Cyrilof Jerusalem and St. John Chrysostom:Then we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep:first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through theirprayers and supplications God would receive our petition; next, wemake mention also of the holy fathers and bishops who have already17 See the article by Bishop Anthony of Geneva and Western Europe “What Can We Know About theAfterlife Existence of a Human Soul?” To read the article in Russian check http://www.st-nikolas.orthodoxy.ru/news/soul_after_death.html38Ladder of Divine Ascent, Monastery of St. Catherine, Sinai.

CHRIST, THE MEDICINE OF LIFEfallen asleep, and, to put it simply, of all among us who have already fallenasleep, for we believe that it will be of very great benefit to the soulsof those for whom the petition is carried up, while this holy and mostsolemn sacrifice is laid out” (St. Cyril of Jerusalem, CatecheticalLectures 23:5:9, written in 350 AD).“Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified bytheir father’s sacrifice 18 , why would we doubt that our offerings for thedead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help thosewho have died and to offer our prayers for them” (St. John Chrysostom,Homilies on First Corinthians 41:5, written in 392 AD).Early Acts of the martyrs tell us the same. The Martyrdom of Perpetuaand Felicitas 19 (from 203 AD) is a fine example of this, for it contains afamous passage about Dinocrates, the brother of Perpetua. She first tells usof the vision of her brother straight after his death and then of anothervision of her brother after she had been praying for him:Some days later, when we were all at prayer, suddenly while praying Ispoke out and uttered the name Dinocrates. I was surprised; for the namehad never entered my mind until that moment. And I was pained when Irecalled what had happened to him. At once I realized that I was privilegedto pray for him. I began to pray for him and to sigh deeply before theLord. That very night I had the following vision. I saw Dinocrates comingout of a dark hole, where there were many others with him, very hot andthirsty, pale and dirty. On his face was the wound he had when he died.Now Dinocrates had been my brother according to the flesh; but he haddied horribly of cancer of the face when he was seven years old, and hisdeath was a source of loathing to everyone. Thus it was for him that I hadmade my prayer. There was a great abyss between us: neither couldapproach the other. Where Dinocrates stood there was a pool full of water;and its rim was higher than the child’s height, so that Dinocrates had tostretch himself up to drink. I was sorry that, though the pool had water init, Dinocrates could not drink because of the height of the rim. Then Iwoke up realizing that my brother was suffering. But I was confident thatI could help him in his trouble; and I prayed for him every day ….18 Job 1:519 Original text and translation are published by Musurillo, H., The Acts of the Christian Martyrs, vol. II,Oxford: 2000, p. 115-117.St. John Damascene41

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 1 (#20)CHRIST, THE MEDICINE OF LIFEOn the day we were kept in chains, I had this vision shown to me. Isaw the same spot that I had seen before, but there was Dinocrates allclean, well dressed and refreshed, I saw a scar where the wound hadbeen; and the pool that I had seen before now had its rim lowered to thelevel of the child’s waist. And Dinocrates kept drinking water from it,and yet the bowl remained full. And when he had drunk enough of thewater, he began to play as children do. Then I awoke, and I realized thathe had been delivered from his suffering.The Church teaches us that prayers for the dead in church services areeven more powerful than private prayers. They nourish and enrich the soul,helping it to replenish what it lacks: love towards our Saviour, faith in Hiscompassion, repentance, awareness of its sinfulness. Such feelings andstates which the soul acquires through the prayers of the Church, help it tocome closer to God and affect the fate of the soul beyond the grave.The Church includes both the living and the faithful dead, praying to God ina spiritual communion of praise, solidarity and help. The prayers in theOrthodox funeral service show clearly that the Church is seen as a unity: “Giverest, our Saviour, to our brother, whom You have taken over from transientthings as he cries, Glory to Thee.” In the Slavonic version of the Canon Afterthe Departure of the Soul, we hear the refrain, “Lord, grant peace to yourdeparted slave who is praying to you through us.” 20 Certainly the saints, andeven the souls of the departed faithful, can pray fervently to the living God.RTE: Many contemporary western Christians seem to feel themselvescaught in a dichotomy between an all-merciful, loving God, and the idea ofthe same God who allows people to suffer eternally. This confusion keepssome from fully trusting God, and others reject the idea of hell entirely, as“not being worthy of a loving God.”IRINA: Yes. However, there is another important facet in understanding hell,and that is that hell is not a place. Neither can we understand fully wherethose who died before Christ were, for human souls are not physical. 21Hell means torment and torture. Catholic teaching says that the punishmentwill be in the form of isolation from God, and some supernatural formof fire which causes endless, unbearable pain but does not consume the body,20 “Upokoi Gospodi dushu usopshego raba tvoego, nami tebe molyaschegosya.”21 Sister Magdalen, Conversations with Children, Stavropegic Monastery of St. John the Baptist, Essex:2001, p. 223.while the Eastern Orthodox Church teaches that the precise form of punishmentis not known to us. The Church fathers teach that this torment is:1) self-inflicted, a result of preferring darkness to light during this life; and,2) that God’s presence and light are a torment for those who abused theirhuman freedom.In his Mystic Treatises St. Isaac the Syrian writes:…those who find themselves in Hell will be chastised by the scourge oflove. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those whounderstand that they have sinned against love, undergo no greater sufferingthan that produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow thattakes hold of the heart which has sinned against love, is more piercingthan any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in Hell aredeprived of the love of God ... But love acts in two ways, as suffering ofthe reproved, and as joy in the blessed!As I said earlier, it is very interesting to find the Catholics moving towarda comparatively similar view. In an address to English-speaking Catholicpilgrims in Rome on July 28, 1999, Pope John Paul II said: “Hell is not apunishment imposed externally by God, but the condition resulting fromattitudes and actions which people adopt in this life. It is the ultimate consequenceof sin itself. Sacred Scripture uses many images to describe thepain, frustration and emptiness of life without God. More than a physicalplace, hell is the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselvesfrom God, the source of all life and joy. So eternal damnation is notGod’s work but is actually our own doing.”RTE: In facing this possibility of our sins causing an eternal separation fromGod, what significance does the Lord’s descent into Hades have on oureveryday struggles with our passions and shortcomings?IRINA: It seems to me that the teaching on the descent demonstrates to usthat a human being is not left alone in this world to cope with its troublesand with his own inner turmoils. Once God hears our cry de profundis [outof the depths]; He descends to save us.I think it is very unfortunate that nowadays we tend to separate theprocess of salvation from that of the Last Judgement of the Lord. In earlier4243

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 1 (#20)times there was no such dichotomy. Among the 11-12th century mosaics inthe Basilica of Santa Maria Assunta in Torcello, Venice, is a very prominentscene of the descent into hell in the upper tier of mosaics, and scenes fromthe Last Judgement in the lower tiers. Here we are reminded that Christ,first of all, is our Saviour, and then our Judge. In his 1930’s Poem AboutDeath, Russian philosopher and medievalist Lev Karsavin, who died twentyyears later in a hard labour camp in Abez, northern Russia, writes: “It isthe world who cannot bear the vision of God’s Fullness and falls apart at theapproach of Divinity. God does not put anyone to death; He is God of theliving, not of the dead, for He is Love. 22 ”It seems to me that hell is a vicious circle from which God liberates us: anendless cycle of wrongdoing and guilt, abuse and revenge, exploitation andrevolt, victimization and alienation, addiction and rejection – all are servantsof hell, sin, and death, which only bog us deeper in the miry depths of Sheol– and this is what God saves us from. One can see parallels to what sin andhell are like in the sufferings of deeply depressed or mentally ill people. Oncea certain thought or perception begins to trouble them (one can also speakhere about the patristic notion of logismoi), 23 they begin dwelling on it untilthe thought or perception grows out of proportion, like an avalanche ofsnow, eventually demanding the whole person and engrossing him in itself.In this sense, hell is indeed eternal, for it possesses the nature of vicious repetition,where there is no hope for liberation and breaking the cycle. It hasmany disguises but the result is common to them all: a feeling of hopelessness.This is why one needs external help. This is why, feeling hopeless, wepray to Christ. In the gospels, Christ never rejects people crying to Him forhelp, nor does He tell them: “Wait here for a while, suffer a while and youwill become holy because of it,” but cures those addressing Him immediately.Only those who deny and reject Christ will be driven into outer darkness.RTE: But, we might ask, if God is so merciful, how is it that hell exists at all?IRINA: Archimandrite Sophrony, the disciple of St. Silouan of Mount Athos,once recounted a dialogue that took place between Staretz Silouan anda hermit who declared that all atheists will burn in everlasting fire.The staretz asked the hermit, if he went to Paradise, and looking down,saw someone burning in hell-fire, would he still feel happy? To which the22 Karsavin, L, Religiozno-Filosofskie Sochineniya, Poema o Smerti, vol. I, Moskva, 1992, p. 268.23 Markides, Kyriacos C., The Mountain of Silence, New York: 2001, p 124-127.44Byzantine Mosaic of Christ’sDescent Into Hell and the LastJudgement. Santa MariaAssunta, Torcello, Venice.

CHRIST, THE MEDICINE OF LIFEhermit replied, “It can’t be helped. It would be their own fault.” StaretzSilouan answered him with a sorrowful countenance. “Love could not bearthat,” he said. “We must pray for all.” 24How is it then possible that hell exists at all? If God is so compassionateand full of love why is there so much suffering? There is a direct connectionbetween the existence of hell and what happened in the Garden of Eden. AsBishop Kallistos writes, quoting St. Isaac the Syrian, “Hell is not God’s rejectionof humankind but humankind’s refusal of God. It is not a punishmentwhich God inflicts upon us, but a state of mind in which we punish ourselves.God does not shut the door against those in hell; He does not withdrawHis love from them, but it is they who deliberately harden their heartsagainst that love.” 25The world cannot easily be divided into parties of good and bad people. Weall share in the fall of Adam and in the state associated with hell, to a greateror lesser extent. This is our judgement in our present earthly life. We do hardenour hearts against God’s love. We are all sinners with our passions andfaults, which means that in one way or another we are also responsible for theexistence of hell. When St. Silouan thought about his own sins against Godand began condemning himself, he almost fell into despondency, but whilepraying he heard, “Keep your mind in hell and despair not.” It seems thatthese words were meant not only for him but for all of us. We know that St.Silouan prayed with tears “for those in hell” until the end of his life.In his Nisibene Hymn 36:1, St. Ephrem writes that Christ, through Hissaving work, has undone the consequences of the fall of Adam and removedthe curse from humanity:Our Lord has subdued His (own) power and they took hold of Him,So that His living death could bring Adam to life,He gave over His hands to be fixed by nailsInstead of the hand which had plucked the fruit 26 .He was struck on the cheek in the house of JudgementIn place of the mouth which ate in Eden 27 .Because Adam’s feet were set loose24 Archimandrite Sophrony (Sakharov), Saint Silouan the Athonite, Tolleshunt Knights, Essex: 1991, p. 48.25 Bishop Kallistos Ware, “Dare We Hope for the Salvation of All?” in The Inner Kingdom, Crestwood, NY:2000, p. 211.26 The reverse of what happened in Paradise. See Gen 3:6.27 Gen 3:6.St. Athanasius the Great47

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 1 (#20)In Syriac theology it is said that Christ has paid a ransom for Adam andhis sin. In his Nisibene Hymn 36, St. Ephrem describes the scene whenChrist came down to Sheol to seek Adam, and Death speaks with Christ,saying that there is no substitute for Adam who is a debtor to Death andSheol. (So, it is not God who demands recompense, but Death, which isquite noteworthy).In 36:2, Death says to Christ:And if you are the one who seeks Adam, then come here. Because ofhis debts 34 he was imprisoned here. Cherubim and Seraphim cannotbe payers on his behalf, for there is no mortal among them, who couldgive himself for his [Adam’s] sake. Who will open the mouth of Sheoland plunge and go up from there; from the one who had swallowedand hidden him forever?Death demands proof from Jesus that He is able to pay for Adam. WhenHis Resurrection begins and the angels enter Sheol, Death wants to avoidfurther trouble and in 36:15 thinks to himself:I will ask him and persuade him to take his hostage, 35 to raise up andgo off to his kingdom.Then in 36:17, Death implores Christ to take Adam (now Christ’s hostage)with Him:King Jesus, receive my request,and with my request, take your hostage,carry off your great hostage, Adam,in whom all the dead are hidden.We see here that Christ comes to liberate Adam from the sin that held himin captivity as the prisoner of Death. With Adam “in whom all the dead arehidden,” Christ has redeemed us also from the power of sin and death.Being saved by Christ does not mean that we now have no responsibility forour sins before God, but rather, it means that sin and death no longer holdabsolute power over us. They have been conquered. In the Acts of Thomas,34 This word also means sin and is used in the Jesus' prayer in Syriac, which may be also understood as :And forgive us our debts (sins) as we forgive our debtors (i.e. those who sin against us).” Due to this feature,there is a play on the meaning in Syriac literature. Here, In St. Ephrem's hymn it means that Adam hassinned and thus became a debtor to Death. It is only Christ who can free Adam from his imprisonment.35 from Greek .50The Lord’s tomb, Holy Sepulchre, Jerusalem.

CHRIST, THE MEDICINE OF LIFEanother ancient writing that mentions the descent of Christ into Sheol, it issaid that Christ has trod the path to heaven, or more correctly, to Paradise.This is exactly the path that He has opened for us, that we can follow now.This is the path out of Sheol into heaven, towards God’s healing andaccepting love. In his Homily on Our Lord, there are some wonderful lineswhere St. Ephrem compares the Cross of Christ’s passion to a bridgestretched over the realm of death so that the souls can cross over to therealm of life, that is, Paradise:This is the skillful Son of the carpenter who put up a cross over Sheolthat swallows all. And He led 36 humanity over to the realm of Life. Whilethrough the Tree 37 humanity fell inside of Sheol, over the Tree [of thecross] it crossed to the realm of Life. Thus, through the Tree, throughwhich was tasted the bitterness, was tasted the sweetness. So that we couldrecognize the One to whom there is no adversary in His creation. To You isthe glory Who put His cross as a bridge over Death, so that the souls couldpass over it from the realm of the dead to the realm of the living.If, however, we continue to reject God, then our state of being and our stayin Sheol is perpetuated. In this case, it seems to me personally, it becomesendless and ever turning in upon itself. This is what Metropolitan Anthonyof Sourozh calls “the vicious circle of endlessness.” 38 (As he himself explains,endlessness here is different from eternity. It means disintegration anddecay without the possibility of ever escaping them, an endlessly livingdeath). Christ liberates us not from our physical death but from the death ofour spirit, caused by Adam’s transgression. Philoxenos of Mabbug (485-523), a Syrian Orthodox bishop and an outstanding theologian in his TenDiscourses against Habib wrote that death was destroyed by death and notby resurrection, which was only the revelation of that victory. To me thisstatement is very illuminating, and it clarifies why in our troparion we singabout Christ who has “risen from the death trampling down death by death.”For this reason Christ is also called a guest “in the tomb.” 39 5336 This verb in Syriac has the meaning of to pass over; remit transgressions; to transfer; to transplant; tocause to pass; allow to pass or depart.37 The tree of the knowledge of good and evil in Paradise.38 Metropolitan Anthony of Sourozh, “On Death” in Sobornost 1/2 (1979), p. 13.39 In the East there was a distinction between the guest who stayed for up to three days and someone whostayed on for four days or more, which implied either permanent residence or just abuse of hospitality onthe guest's part.St. Gregory of Nyssa

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 1 (#20)CHRIST, THE MEDICINE OF LIFEIn sinning we doom ourselves to never-ending suffering and to greatgrief, for sin is a distortion of God’s image within us. However, the mainthing to remember is that when, in the course of our earthly life, we grieveover our sins and repent of them, God grieves with us, and sends consolationif we attempt to find a way out of our sinfulness.The road to healing and restoration lies through our repentance. Thismeans that we should not abuse the sacrament of Confession. Some peoplehave the attitude that that they are mechanically cleansed in confession andafterwards can continue sinning, but real repentance is a process, sometimesa long process, of healing, which means we should strive to deal withthe roots of our sins instead of cultivating them.This emphasis on deep repentence was very evident in ancient Ireland,where people could confess the same sin several times to their priest (who wascalled an anamchara: a friend, a concommitant) if they were tormented by it.This practice no longer exists in our churches, but it seems at the time to havebeen an extremely healing thing, particularly if the person repenting hadcommitted a grave sin. If the awareness of a past sin troubled the person, heor she could confess it to the priest until they felt they had been healed.We usually read that Christ by His Resurrection conquered death andextended His liberating power to the kingdom of the dead. The westernteaching on the harrowing of hell developed into an explanation of howthose righteous people who lived before the incarnation were redeemed. 40The ancient Syriac tradition went further, however, and celebrated thedescent of Christ into Sheol as an event of universal significance. It says thatChrist has taken all those who belonged to Him and Adam, the first man.Again, in ancient Syriac and Hebrew the name “Adam” also serves as thedesignation of the whole of humanity; all of us together, but also each onein particular. Some Christian authors say that the descent of Christ intoSheol is not only an event of the past but continues into subsequent generations.For me, this serves as an indication that, potentially, all of us aresaved. But it depends upon our free will whether we choose to be saved andaccept Christ’s free gift or not.Here, I would like to cite some verses from St. Ephrem’s Nisibene Hymn,where St. Ephrem speaks about how Christ entered Sheol and freed its captives(that is, the dead):40 Trumbower J., Rescue for the Dead. The Posthumous Salvation of Non-Christians in Early Christianity,Oxford: 2001, p. 154-5.36:11Dizziness seized hold of Death and Sheol; where lightHad never been seen, lightning flashed out from the angels who hadenteredAnd took outThe dead to meet the Dead One who has given life to all.36:15Death saw angels in Sheol,Immortal beings instead of mortal ones,And he said: Confusion has entered our abodeTwo things are torment to me:The dead have left Sheol, and the angels who are not going to dieHave entered it.In Hymn 38:1, Death says:Every man is afraid of me alone. I was afraid of none,Fear and anxiety among the living,Peace and quiet among the dead,Through a murdered man, captivity entered Sheol 41I have caught everyone. But a captive, whom I have caughtHas captured me! 42And He led His captivity away and went into Paradise! 43For St. John Chrysostom in his Paschal Homily, the harrowing of hell wasa paradox that was an essential part of the Christian mystery of faith:Hell took a body, and discovered God; it took earth, and encounteredheaven. It took what it saw, and was overcome by what it did not see.RTE: Irina, would you sum up for us the most accessible and valuable fruitof the Syriac Fathers’ emphasis on the descent into hell?IRINA: Yes. St. Isaac the Syrian says, “It is not [the way of] the compassionateMaker to create rational beings in order to deliver them over merciless-41 The dead were thought to be the prisoners, the captives, of Sheol, who had been captured by Death. Here,Jesus is seen as the one who liberates prisoners from their captivity.42 Play on words.43 See Eph 4: 7-10 and Ps 67:19.5455

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 1 (#20)ly to unending affliction.” 44 The focus of Christianity is on eternal life, notpunishment after death. St. John Chrysostom reminds us: “We must notask where hell is, but how we are to escape it.” 45 Christianity is all about lifeand truth, it is not a religion of punishment or revenge. The aim ofChristianity is not to turn us into a pack of neurotics but to make us childrenof God. I would even dare say that it is blasphemous to meditate onlyon the punishment of sinners. This narrow focus tremendously damagesour relationship to God and hinders our free and loving response to God’slove, which turns us to repentance and healing. Such a view causes us to fallinto the sin of judging and condemning our brothers. God is our Father, notan abstract inhuman idol, which indicates that He cares about His creation.In sending His Son He showed to the world that His aim is not to destroythe creation but to heal and restore it.In Eastern Christian traditions (both Eastern Orthodoxy and OrientalOrthodoxy), hell is not seen as a legalistic punishment meted out by anangry and vengeful God for a slight against a set of spiritual rules. Instead,it describes a state of separation from God, a state into which all humansare born, but against which Christ is “the Mediator,” “the Great Physician,”“the Medicine of Life.”Sin is not a legalistic notion. Sin is a wound. A wound that hurts andbleeds. It seems to me that if we must have a definition of sin, then it is whatdistorts and severs the bond of love, whether divine or human. Sin alsodarkens our idea of God, causing us to see Him as a vindictive judge and tofear punishment and retribution from Him. But in Mt. 9:12-13, Jesusreplies to the Pharisees: “It is not the healthy who need the doctor, but thesick.” And then He continues: Go and learn the meaning of the words:Mercy is what pleases me, not sacrifice” (Hos. 6:6). And indeed I came tocall not the upright, but sinners.” What we should concentrate upon is notthe way in which He will avenge our sins, for He is the God who saves, butto strive to keep this bond of personal love for God that allows us to addressHim as “Abba, Father.”44 Brock, S., Isaac of Nineveh (Isaac the Syrian): “The Second Part,” Chapters IV-XLI, (Corpus ScriptorumChristianorum Orientalium 555), Louvain: 1995, Homily 39:6, p. 165.45 In Romans, P.G., vol. 60, col. 67456St. Michael the Archangel

CroaghPatrick:The GloriousClimb ofIreland’s HolyMountainRoad to Emmaus staff first met Michael Gibbons on a pilgrimage to west Ireland with the Friendsof Orthodoxy on Iona in September of 2009. As Michael guided us around the Derry Peninsula in asunny but blustery September, we spent lovely long days tramping dirt roads, skirting peat bogs,and clambering over stony green fields to investigate ancient churches, abandoned cemeteries,and little-known holy wells. Armed with vast archeological and historical knowledge, a livingfaith, and deep love for his country, Michael illumined Ireland’s Christian past. As a member ofthe Croagh Patrick Archaeological Research Team and one of Ireland’s most respected archeologists,he has spoken on Ireland’s heritage at home and abroad, including Oxford, Cambridge,Harvard and the National Geographic Society, and we were delighted when he agreed to spendan evening talking to us about Croagh Patrick, Ireland’s Holy Mountain. As one pilgrim remarked,“To meet Michael Gibbons is to meet Ireland.”“Croagh Patrick is the glorious, singing, laughingclimb of an Ireland young in spirit and truth andenthusiastic in performance.”Patrick KavanaghOpposite: Michael Gibbons.3

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 2 (#45)CROAGH PATRICKRTE: Michael, will you tell us about yourself, your work and about Connemara’spilgrimage sites.MICHAEL: I’m Michael Gibbons, an archeologist from Connemara, and thisarea of west Ireland has a long pilgrimage tradition that continues to thepresent.Christianity was introduced to Ireland in the fifth century by capturedslaves from the west coast of Britain during the breakup of the Roman Empire.St. Patrick, a Roman citizen from Britain was the most famous of theseIn all, seventeen islands off the Connemara coast have monastic remains.These islands provided an important retreat and a home for hermits awayfrom the bustling world of early Christian Ireland. The Irish name for thetown of Clifden is Clochán, a beehive cell. This may indicate an early Christianassociation with today’s Clifden, but the ancient site has yet to be found.While Croagh Patrick is the most known site, the locals still go on a numberof different pilgrimages, including to the Patrician sites I just mentioned.Mám Ean (meaning “The Pass of the Birds”) is a high pass in the MaumturkMountains (“The Pass of the Wild Boar”). On the 8th of August every year,Croagh Patrick in snow. Courtesy of Michael Gibbons.slaves, and Connemara people frequent two great pilgrimage sites associatedwith him: Mám Ean in the Maumturks and Croagh Patrick. By the earlyseventh century, monks had founded important monasteries on our remoteand rugged islands of Inishark by St. Leo, on High and Omey islands bySt. Fechin, Inis Ní by St. Mathias and on Oilean Mhic Dara by St. Macdara.A major monastery was founded on Inishbofin by St. Colman, a monasticexile from Lindisfarne and Iona, who brought with him numerous Saxonfollowers.Pilgrims in the early morning light. Courtesy Harry Hughes.there is a small local pilgrimage to Mám Ean, attended mostly by mountainpeople who live on the sides of the Maumturks. Further south, where mymother’s family is from is St. MacDara’s Island. MacDara is the most importantlocal saint in Connemara and St. MacDara’s was an island monastery.Every 16th of July, there is a maritime pilgrimage along the south Connemaracoast to this site, where we were brought as children.My first pilgrimage experience as a child was at St. Cailín’s Well (pronouncedCall Een), one of the older pilgrimage sites with a tiny well and an45

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 2 (#45)CROAGH PATRICKold children’s burial ground next to it, overlooking the ocean. St. Cailín wasthe brother of MacDara and MacDuach. Even today the local boatmen venerateMacdara as the “Fisher MacDara” by dipping their sails three times asthey pass the island. This is a tradition not from history as we think of it, butfrom folklore, which is a parallel source of information. There is a beautifulpilgrimage on the 11th of November with dancing and sometimes a boatrow or a regatta. Right out from Cailín’s Well is Chapel Island, with an 11thcenturymedieval church. So, the three pilgrimages of Mám Ean, MacDara’sIsland and St. Cailín’s Well are the three in this part of Connemara.Just north of us is a pilgrimage on the Feast of the Assumption, the 15th ofAugust, to Caher (Fortress) Island, where there is a wonderful local pilgrimageto an abandoned monastic site. We think that this was once the endpointof a much larger pilgrimage with many stops that started in the center ofMayo at an early church site called Ballintubber Abbey and stretched westwardacross a wonderful sixty mile transect of the Irish landscape, of whichCroagh Patrick is a sort of ritual centerpiece. From Croagh Patrick, the pilgrimscontinued westward to Kilgeever, another church site, and onwards toCaher Island, owned by the people of Inishturk, where they hold one of themost beautiful maritime sea pilgrimages in Ireland, mostly attended by thepeople of Southwest Mayo, Inishturk, Inishbofin, Clare Island and the RenvylePeninsula. I attended the pilgrimage on the 17th of August 2010 alongwith almost 500 other people, the largest attendance in its modern history.Climbing Croagh PatrickThe most important regional pilgrimage site, of course, is Croagh Patrick.This is very much a rural pilgrimage that still survives among small farmers—people with deep old values, an earthy sort of people who may not be regularmass goers, but they wouldn’t miss Croagh Patrick. Very little researchhas been done on this pilgrimage, because although Irish academics mightbe Catholic, they aren’t part of the rural pilgrimage scene and have neverbothered to study it. Even with the general decline of religious vocations andchurch attendance, rural pilgrimage is still very strong in Ireland, and here inConnaught, the attendance at Sunday mass is still high, probably over 60%.As St. Patrick is our national saint, any site associated with him has a highstatus, and Croagh Patrick is a beautiful, iconic mountain. Pilgrims comehere from all over Ireland, but mostly Connaught and Ulster, the westernand northern provinces. The original Patrician heartland, of course, was Ulster,which, as far as we know was where Patrick came in the fifth century,captured on a raid when the Irish expanded eastward in a brief imperiousburst and brought captured Christian slaves back with them. Patrick is creditedwith founding a whole series of churches in East Ulster. Croagh Patrickpersists as a major church site and has been so throughout the centuries.Croagh Patrick (which we call “The Reek” colloquially, a reek being a steepsidedstack of turf) is partly owned by the farmers around it, but much of itbelongs to the Archbishop of Tuam, the patron of our pilgrimage. Tuam is ourbig diocese founded by St. Jarlath in the 6th century. Although it is a smalltown now, in the times of the early church, it was a very large and importantmonastic centre, and Jarlath is still a common first name in this area.RTE: What do you remember of your first climb up Croagh Patrick?MICHAEL: Climbing the Reek in 1974 was my first experience of a mountainpilgrimage. It was an amazing night: a whole gaggle of teenagers leavingClifden, where the buses converged after the pubs closed (the traditionaltime for starting out). Most people didn’t have a car so they travelled fromall over on buses. We stopped to pick up pilgrims in villages all along the wayand by the time we got to Westport, we were part of a throng of literally tensof thousands of people.Climbing the Reek is still done by a whole cross-section of people, fromthe very young to the very old. You’ll get children as young as three up CroaghPatrick, all the way to the top. Sometimes they’re dragged crying andscreaming, sometimes they’re way ahead of Mom and Dad. You also haveparents and grandparents, whole extended families going up. You’re part ofa much wider community and that’s what gets most people to the top. It’squite an arduous climb when you’re not experienced and most people aren’thill walkers, they don’t have proper gear, they don’t often have raincoats.(You know Irish people still haven’t adapted well to our weather. When therain comes, we’re always surprised—we’d be extinct in any other climate).But there’s an extraordinary excitement about the climb because you’remeeting people you may not have seen for a whole year. It’s a great time ofpeople pulling together.RTE: Why did you climb it?67

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 2 (#45)CROAGH PATRICKMICHAEL: I climbed it because it was the most exciting thing you could doas a teenager. Climbing the Reek was a rite of passage. Of course, there wereno parents around to supervise—you couldn’t possibly supervise in thatcrowd—and making it to the top marked your entrance into adulthood. Youwere conscious that the big lads and girls could climb it, and you’d find yourselffierce religious at fourteen about doing it yourself… “Sean’s gone, Mary’sgone, why can’t I go?”So, we teenagers—15- to 17-year-olds—are all watching each other on thebus, all nervous about going up. When we arrived, there were all sorts ofhawkers about selling rosary beads and walking sticks for the Reek. Thethe time. They are an Irish people, nomadic from the dawn of history, muchmisunderstood and badly treated.I’d always heard about the excitement of the Reek itself—people crying,people falling, people praying : there’s continuous prayer all the way up, outloud; mostly the rosary, and rightfully so because the rosary focuses you onthe climb which is very dangerous in places. It’s not a nice hill walk, it’s anarrow beam of people on an arduous track, and if you fall, you fall 1000feet. If you get off the trail, you can find yourself in serious trouble, so peoplepack in tight. There’s this tremendous movement upwards, and then therush of people coming down on the other side of the track.Beginning of the ascent. Courtesy Harry Hughes.hawkers have been there, selling this, that, and the other for centuries, allthe way up the trail to the top, and there was already a huge gathering of locals:hill farmers and their families. The oldest person that I’ve met up therewas 82, a hill farmer, who’d been in the hills all his life. There was a hugearray of people, and lots who shouldn’t be there as well. Some are obviouslyextremely unfit and ill, but want to do it anyway, and there are always largenumbers of Irish Travellers, whom we would have called Irish Tinkers atNight pilgrimage, 1963. (Owen Campbell, Pat Langan)RTE: And all of this in the dark?MICHAEL: Pitch black. Most people used to start as soon as it got dark, whichin July is about 10:00, because everyone wanted to be at the top for the firstmass at midnight. Though I was fit because I played football, the climb justnever seemed to end. What makes it even harder is that traditionally youclimb fasting—nothing for twelve hours before the climb. Although it was89

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 2 (#45)CROAGH PATRICKdark, you had a stream of light to carry you on because people carried torches.You couldn’t see your feet, but you could see the general route as it zig-zaggedand snaked its way up the mountain. The first fifteen hundred feet is quite atricky sinuous path winding up through rocks and around a large corrie (ahollow in a hillside), then there’s a saddle where you walk about a kilometeron an undulating route, and then the summit cone, which is not quite verticalbut very steep. It’s loose scree, so you’re walking up three feet and fallingdown four. And remember, people are doing this in their bare feet, slippingand sliding, pulling themselves up with sticks. There are even fellows carryinghuge crosses on their back to fulfill a vow, all the way to the top.It was a massive relief to get to the top. The summit itself is 150 metersacross and maybe 50 meters wide, with the church in the center. It’s likea huge footprint on top. Years later we discovered that the footprint wasthe outline of the remains of a hilltop fort enclosing the very summit of themountain and an early monastery. Midnight mass was the big mass to beat the summit for, and then there were masses on the half-hour all throughthe night. The summit is amazing, thronged with 25,000 people, absolutelyelbow-room only. Today, people still climb at night, but the masses only beginat 8:00 in the morning now, as the Church has been trying to encouragedaylight climbing.When we got to the summit that night, mass was going on with dozens ofpriests queuing up to hear confession. There’s a huge push and queue to getto confession, because it’s important to have confession on the Reek. Meanwhile,one of the hawkers is trying to sell you tea at exorbitant prices.We waited there until dawn. When dawn breaks on Croagh Patrick it’sthe most beautiful sight, overlooking Clew Bay with its dozens of islands.You can see all the islands of Inishboffin out to the west, Achill to the north,mountains north and south, and then when you look inland, you see a rollingtapestry of Irish countryside. As the sun came up, the whole lot was bathedin the most beautiful light, and then slowly the mountain itself and ClewBay. It was and is an extraordinary sight.After mass, there’s a tumult, a river of people coming down the mountainside.Everyone is in great form, of course, with the excitement of havingmade it. There are tea-sellers everywhere, and all of the pubs along the roadat the bottom of the mountain are thronged with people. This was one of thecriticisms made by respectable 19th-century authors.RTE: But you would have to celebrate the climb.MICHAEL: Yes, and I remember us all walking the four miles into Westportin the morning to catch the bus back. After that first climb I was in bed allthe next day—more from the excitement than the climb. As a teenager it’sthe emotion that hits you harder than the physical climb. It was fabulous.The modern pilgrimage is amazing too, because now at the bottom youhave a whole series of evangelical Northern Irish Protestant tents trying toconvert the Catholics and giving out orange juice and little pamphlets thatsay, “Patrick was a Protestant.” The sort of animosity that still dominatesparts of Northern Ireland isn’t part of southern Irish life anymore, so peopleare quite happy to take the orange juice, take the pamphlets, and have achat with these Baptists, Adventists, and all the shades of Protestants thatyou have in Northern Ireland. This is the missionaries’ big chance, but thepilgrims just take it in good humor. It’s a jolly pilgrimage.I often thought in the middle of the troubles, “Why don’t they just grab thepoliticians and bring them down to show them that all of these ordinary Catholicpeople can tolerate extreme Protestant sects proselytizing at one of themost sacred Catholic sites in Ireland. They gladly drink their orange juice.”Irish TravellersRTE: You mentioned the Travellers as an integral part of the pilgrimage.Aren’t they native Irish gypsies?MICHAEL: Native Irish gypsies, but they’re not related ethnically to the Romanigypsies, although they share the same hostility from settled people.But they’re very interesting because they’ve got all the traditions, the rites,the prayer sequences, and a great devotion to the saints and the holy wells.They are old Ireland. Sometimes near these sites, when American touristsare coming, I hear people say, “Oh Lord, the Travellers are camped there,don’t let the visitors see them.” Instead, I stop the car to look and say, “Thisis old Ireland you’re looking at.”They are a very interesting element of the whole Croagh Patrick experience,because on the night of the climb there have always been large numbersof Irish travellers, and they’ve all climbed barefoot. Most Travellers livea harsh life and they have the lowest life-expectancy of anyone in Ireland,mostly as a result of alcoholism, heart disease, fighting and increasingly drugabuse. They tend to marry early in arranged marriages, and Irish peoplehave traditionally thought of them as settled people who were thrown out1011

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 2 (#45)CROAGH PATRICKone of the families. The town council had built them a brand-new house, sixmonths old, and as I walked up to it, I could see that the house was completelytrashed, almost in bits. In the back garden was a Traveller tent and a fire;it was pouring down rain. There was an old man there, at least he seemedto be old, but was probably only in his 50’s. His wife was cooking, mindingthe grandchildren, and catching the horses that were wandering in and outof the house. I asked them, “What happened to the house?” “Oh, we couldn’tlive in it.” Once the weather warmed up they’d gotten out of the house. Theywere claustrophobic, and they simply didn’t know how to live in a house. OfCatholic monks praying at small oratory (robbed of altar). Courtesy Michael Gibbons.course that goes down like a lead balloon with the housing people: “It’s adisgrace!” They threw social workers at them to beat the band, but not whatthey really needed—anthropologists. The insights that anthropology bringsto people like this are important, but the Irish don’t believe they need tostudy anything. We’re such a self-confident lot.So, in the mainstream of pilgrims to any pilgrimage is this sub-elementof Travellers who don’t mix socially. They are an important group, but Icouldn’t see that on our first pilgrimage, “Christ, look…” They weren’t hosoftheir homes and lands a few centuries ago by the English: “If we couldonly settle them, everything would be alright.” But these people were neversettled. Settled people don’t become nomads.We grew up in a small town where we had good relations with the fewTraveller families we had. In an agricultural world, they had a place—theyfulfilled an important function as tinsmiths and horse traders—and in thatworld there was tolerance and a certain respect for them. The age of plasticsdid away with all of that. Socially they’ve slid downhill, which is very tragic,and as a society we’ve never acknowledged that because we’re still pretendingthat they were once settled people: “If they’d only stay in the houses webuilt for them, everything would be fine.” Many settled travelers in the citieshave fallen prey to drugs with all of their associated dangers and criminality.About 20% of the traveling community have adapted well and are reasonablyprosperous traders.The real revelation I had that they are not just displaced, but a nomadicpeople, was one day when I went to look at a holy well site. Of course, itwas the local Travellers who knew where the well was, and so I went to seePilgrim at the second station. Courtesy Harry Hughes.1213

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 2 (#45)CROAGH PATRICKtile, but you stick to your own, and your own certainly weren’t Travellers.RTE: Can you tell Travellers by their dress?MICHAEL: Sometimes, and the girls often have big earrings, but you canmore often tell by their names and their accents. It’s a closed community andthey don’t marry out, so they have a very particular way of speaking English.Though everyone has their own regional speech, the dialect that many of theTravellers speak is literally medieval English and medieval Irish—it’s one ofthe secret languages of Ireland, if you like. In some areas, notably Tuam andGalway, there are still a lot of Traveller words in colloquial English.You can also tell Travellers by the nomadic routes that they follow aroundthe country. They travel back and forth to Scotland also, though there havebeen Scottish laws from the 13th century prohibiting them from disruptingtownspeople. When the British came to Ireland, they almost went crackedbecause, although they were used to the regular Irish, they weren’t at all usedto these nomads who just didn’t pay any heed to central government and hadno sense of private property.Whereas climbing the Reek is a regular thing for most of the settled population,there’s this especially strong attachment to it for the Travellers. Thelast woman killed on Croagh Patrick was a Traveller woman. She vowed toclimb it three times, one after another on the same day in the middle of winterbecause her nephew was sick. On the second climb she slipped and fellabout 1500 feet. The pilgrimage tradition has this older edge to it as well.What you may be looking at with these people is a survival of early historicmetalsmiths, who may have created some of the finest works of art in earlyChristian Ireland. As I said, this was their original function in early Christiansociety, taking their trades to the various lordships and monasteries. Whenthat medieval culture was broken up, they began their long historic slide intosocial dislocation. Nevertheless, they are a wonderful part of all pilgrimages,and they have a great devotion to Our Lady, Patrick, Brigid, and a whole hostof other saints.Night Pilgrimage on the ReekRTE: Why was Croagh Patrick’s night pilgrimage stopped?MICHAEL: We don’t know why precisely. There are many rumors, but theMarian shrine at Knock may have had something to do with it. 1 Knock washeavily promoted and reliably Catholic, unassociated with the dodgy storiesof Patrick fighting the demon Crom Dubh, and all of the pre-Christian possibilitiesthere. Some think that some of the bishops may have wanted to giveCatholic Ireland a pure shrine to go on pilgrimage to, and to let these olderones sort of slide off. That first pilgrimage I went on in 1974 was the last nightpilgrimage, and it coincided with the revival of Irish music and festivals, includinga lot more celebrating. The clergy felt that it was getting too raucous,too out-of-order, and quite a few people would be drunk starting up.RTE: Was that dangerous?MICHAEL: Well, you know they say that if you slip drunk you don’t get hurt.Those who were stiff and tried to save themselves were more liable to gethurt. When you think of the number of people going up and how steep it is atthe end, it’s remarkable how few do die. Probably every other year someonedies, but generally from a heart attack rather than actually falling. The reasongiven for it being stopped was that people were getting hurt, but the truth is,it isn’t any safer in the light. Before, when it was dark you wouldn’t go outsidethe boundary of the light, because you knew there was a drop, but in daylightpeople get off the main path. A man died doing that just two years ago.Certainly the people of Morrisk, the village at the bottom of the mountain,weren’t happy when the night pilgrimage stopped, but hundreds of people,thousands probably, still climb it at night, including the Travellers. No onewill stop you, but mass doesn’t start now until eight o’clock in the morning.RTE: Are there other set prayers that people say going up at traditional restingplaces or wayside shrines?MICHAEL: Yes, there are a series of stations on the ascent where pilgrimstraditionally stop. At each station a series of traditional prayers would berecited—Our Fathers, Hail Marys, and the Creed—often while the pilgrimcircled the station on their knees, although this is now dying out.1 Ed. note. The Marian Shrine at Knock: On August 21, 1879, fifteen people, age five to seventy-five, reportedseeing an apparition of the Mother of God, St. Joseph, and St. John the Evangelist in the south gable of theKnock parish church. The apparitions appeared during daylight, as bright, unmoving figures and stayed untilwell after dusk. Although the praying witnesses were wet from the rain, they reported that the ground underthe apparition remained dry. The apparitions were repeated three times in the following spring. Variouspossible natural theories explaining the apparition were investigated by church authorities, but none wereproved. A basilica was built at Knock in the 20th century to memorialize the event, and the Roman Catholicpilgrimage site was given official approval by Pope John Paul II in 1979, on the centenary of the apparition.1415

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 2 (#45)CROAGH PATRICKBronze and Iron Age Croagh PatrickRTE: Do you have any idea how long pilgrimages to the area have been goingon?MICHAEL: That’s a harder question, and a big debate. The mountain is theincredible centerpiece of a whole ritual landscape, so there have been peopleliving on and around Croagh Patrick for about 7,000 years. Because of itsshape and size, it could easily have been a prehistoric sacred peak. I used tothink that myself until very recently, because there are many Neolithic sitesaround the mountain.The Boheh Stone, or St. Patrick’s Chair, is a multi-ledged rock about thesize of this room, completely covered in Neolithic rock art except for onesmall cross carved into the side. Adjacent to it is a children’s burial groundhidden on a knoll, obviously an early cemetery because there are a numberof decorated crosses there. From St. Patrick’s Chair, you have an exquisiteview to the west of the beautiful pyramid-shaped Reek.Gerry Bracken, a friend of mine who died recently, observed that the sunappeared to set on the summit of the mountain when viewed from this beautifulrock. When you are standing on the Boheh Stone, Croagh Patrick is infront of you dominating the horizon: in late afternoon the sun swings aroundSt. Patrick’s Chair (Boheh Stone), Fr. Frank Fahey on pilgrimage, 1990. Courtesy Harry Hughes.Another very beautiful early site about four miles from the mountain is calledSt. Patrick’s Chair. It is on the 22-mile route from Ballintubber Abbey (the traditionalstarting point) and is actually one of the pilgrimage stops. Many ofthe early Christian stops along the route are reused pre-Christian sites: Lankillcemetery, for example, is an early Christian monastery site with tall BronzeAge standing stones inscribed with beautifully decorated crosses. Further on,are Iron Age sites, also with inscribed crosses, and the Boheh Stone.Sun rolling down the north slope of the mountain on April 18 and August 24 as seen from theBoheh Stone. Courtesy Harry Hughes.and sits on top of the mountain, and then appears to glide down the northface. Gerry got an amazing multiple exposure photograph showing the wholesequence. It looks like someone is pulling it down the mountain at a perfectangle. A physicist from the national observatory published an article on thephenomenon, saying that this prehistoric religious phenomenon explainswhy the rock art was there.1617

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 2 (#45)CROAGH PATRICKAfter this article, New Age pilgrimages developed around the site from lotsof people who know nothing about Patrick or anything else. It’s the harumscarumend of pilgrimage—people who are looking for something exotic andhave found it in this “prehistoric” pilgrimage to Croagh Patrick. I was onceasked to speak on this and it didn’t go down too well because I said, “Well,alright, perhaps this was the reason why the rock art was carved there, butthis phenomenon can also be seen from two miles up the road and two milesdown the road, because I checked. If you have a steep-sided peak like this ata particular angle, and the sun sets on a particular day, you do get this phenomenon,but just the fact that we can see it from here, doesn’t mean thatthis was a sacred point and it doesn’t necessarily explain the rock art. Whileit’s a possibility, it’s not evidence.” That theory has been gathering legs, soI’ve been busy trying to chop the legs off.RTE: Michael, you said that you used to think that Croagh Patrick was a sacredpeak in prehistory. Do you still believe that?MICHAEL: We have seventy mountains with Neolithic tombs on top of them,including Tully Mountain to the West, which has a massive Neolithic tombon top. The early Neolithic farming communities often built their tombs onhilltops, sometimes with very elaborate ritual enclosures, but on Croagh Patrickthere simply aren’t any. The new argument among supporters of prehistoricpilgrimage is that perhaps it was so sacred that they didn’t want to spoilit by defiling it with a tomb, so you can’t win with that one. For some people,when there’s no evidence, the lack of evidence is evidence; when there isevidence, they use it both ways.Another argument they use to claim that Croagh Patrick was a ritual monumentin the Bronze Age, is that to the north of the mountain is Killadangen(“kill” is a church, and “daingean” is a stronghold), there is a large area adjacentto the mountain with a Bronze Age ritual complex right beside the mainroad. There you have a series of standing stones aligned on a notch in themountain, and on the 21st of December, at the beginning of the New Year ofthe ancient calendar, the sun appears to slide down into that notch and disappearover the horizon. We have about two hundred of these stone alignmentsall over Ireland, (I recently found another, near here) and we’ve always wonderedwhat their significance is. They are almost all aligned exactly northsouth,or a degree or two off. Some mark passes in the mountains, othersseem to mark route ways: all of them are burials. I’ve excavated one of them.When people argue that this means that Croagh Patrick was a sacredBronze Age site, I say, “Well, if you put enough stone rows up in a mountainousarea, some of them are going to come up with very interesting alignments,and are we reading into it or not?” Nevertheless, there are legitimatearguments that this was a holy mountain.When you come forward to the late Iron Age, a very shadowy period coincidingwith the Roman occupation of Britain, Ireland goes silent. We havethousands of Bronze Age sites, a huge array of Neolithic sites, but almost nolate Iron Age sites.So if you think of Croagh Patrick and the surrounding area as a pulsingBronze Age settlement, with people flowing in, filling the landscape, fillingthe valleys, filling every island, and then the climate deteriorates and theypush back onto the better land; the marginal land is abandoned.We can see a continuous movement to and fro in the archeological recordfrom 8,000 BC, but in the Iron Age we don’t see anything for four centuries,although the gradual appearance of some late Iron Age material on roadschemes is changing this picture. This is a critical formative period, immediatelypre-Christian and coinciding with the Roman occupation of Britain, soperhaps colonization has brought disease with it and has wiped out the Irish.By the end of the Roman period we know that the Irish are back because theRomans describe their pillaging, raiding, and burning of British cities as partof a larger barbarian conspiracy that took a whole imperial army from Gaulto squash.So, the Irish appear in the historic records for the first time in a major wayin the 4th century. From the 5th century onwards, you have Ireland beingChristianized, Patrick being the major figure for that. Other Christian missionariesmentioned in the early accounts are Auxilius, Secundius, Iserninus,and Palladius, all pre-Patrician Christian missionaries in the south of Ireland.It’s said that Palladius was sent in 431 to those who were already Christians,probably in County Meath—these Christians may have been Romano-Britishor Gallic. We also have many Christian Ogham [pronounced Oh-am] inscriptionsin Leinster and Munster from the late 4th and 5th centuries.RTE: What is Ogham?MICHAEL: It was a cipher, a written form of the Irish language in code, similarto Viking runes. Today, we generally find it on stone or bone, but it wasprobably also written on wood or manuscripts that haven’t survived. It ap-1819

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 2 (#45)CROAGH PATRICKpears as a series of lines on an edge, with a stroke after a diagonal line representingeither vowels or consonants. The people who wrote it were clearlyfluent in Latin as it mimics Latin structure, but they are not copying Latin.In this way, it’s a secret code, developed perhaps by merchants or returningsoldiers (we know there were Irish in the Roman armies). Most Ogham fromthe 6th century is found on monastic sites and we know that it was taughtin the monastic schools, so you’ve got Ogham, Irish, and Latin being usedas languages. Recent excavations at a wonderful site off of the south-westScottish coast of Argyle uncovered the scriptorium and the tablets used inteaching Ogham in the school.MICHAEL: There is no direct evidence and Patrick does not mention it in hisown writings, but one of the few place names associated with Patrick is theWood of Foclut, which we think is in north Mayo near another very famouspatrician site, Downpatrick. Also, about 150 feet off the Downpatrick headlandis an extraordinary sight—a pillar of rock rising out of the sea. We callsuch pillars sea stacks, and this one has a church site on top of it. There are anumber of sea stack monasteries off the west coasts of Ireland and Scotland,all purely early church sites. Irish monasteries were established in the mostremote, obscure corners; neither distance nor height deterred these monks.1904. Pilgrims surrounding church in the hollow traditionally believed to have been built bySt. Patrick. Courtesy Harry Hughes.(Ogham translation: The stone of Lugnaedon son of Limenueh)RTE: Local tradition says that St. Patrick fasted and prayed for forty days andforty nights on Croagh Patrick. Is there any historical evidence that he cameto Croagh Patrick, or lived in this part of Ireland?At the foot of Croagh Patrick, early 20th century. Courtesy Harry Hughes.RTE: Would they have located in these remote places because of raids, asthey did in Meteora in Greece?MICHAEL: We’re not sure if that’s the case here, they may have just cravedsolitude, but certainly, raiding was endemic. The Vikings get blamed for allof the raids on Irish monasteries but two-thirds of them were done by theIrish themselves. It was illegal to attack church sites, but it went on as part2021

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 2 (#45)CROAGH PATRICKof inter-tribal warfare. Ireland was a tribal society divided into a myriad ofdifferent kingdoms, and monks within enemy territory were often relativesof enemy tribes. Royal wealth was often stored in monasteries, and the monasteriesthemselves would also occasionally raid one another.That Patrick worked in this tribal society, alive with such raids, we knowfrom his Confession and his Letter to Coroticus. As for written assertions ofhis presence, we have Tireacháin of Connacht, one of Patrick’s biographerswriting 150 years after his death. Tireacháin has him associated with sitesin Connacht, although other people claim he never got out of Ulster. Wealso have a later account of him in Munster, but we know now that he neveractually got there. The great monastery associated with Patrick in Ulster, Armagh,wanted to establish their authority over all of Ireland, but to do this,they had to link up other areas of Ireland with Patrick and hence with theirauthority, so they concocted a great saga of Patrick’s travels in Munster, layingwaste to druids and converting kings. As a result of this push, Patricklater became the national saint, and the Monastery of Armagh became thecountry’s primary ecclesiastical center.Mapping Ireland’s PastAlthough we have no proof that Patrick was on Croagh Patrick, there isarcheological evidence for an early Christian presence on the mountain. Thepresent church at the summit was built in 1905, and we know that there was a19th century church up there before that, with an earlier church underneath.We’d been studying the mountain for about fifteen years when gold wasfirst found on Croagh Patrick. The old pilgrimage tradition had always saidthat there was gold on Croagh Patrick, but it was finally found and there wasa lot of it. This was just before the boom in Ireland, when we still had 20% unemploymentand mass migration. (In this area especially, people were rearedfor export. I’m from a family of seven, and at one point, six of us were workingabroad, including my father. This was quite common.) So, with this rough,hard life, the notion of a lucrative gold mine in Mayo was quite attractive tosome of these characters. Fortunately, they were so arrogant that they turnedeveryone against them. They prospected on the side of the hill, cutting off andpolluting a stream. It was minor pollution, but it showed a contempt for localsensitivities and for the mountain, and so a campaign was started to see thecharlatans off. At that point a committee was formed to research Croagh Patrick,to look into the background of the pilgrimage, and to see if there was anyarcheological evidence of an early Christian presence other than the traditionof Patrick having been up there. This was when I was invited to get involved.I worked at that time for the national survey program, which was mappingsixteen Irish counties using aerial photography and doing documentaryresearch on everything before 1700. We set up our own aerial photographyunit, handpicked our team, and ran the first computerized archeological office.We’d been brought in because the original survey was felt to be in needof some fresh blood and a new focus.We didn’t have the means to survey the whole country with ground teams,so we thought, “We’ll look at it from the air.” The Royal Commission of Britainare superb archeologists, so I went to Fortress House in London, as wellas to Norfolk and Cambridge where they’ve had a huge archeological flyingprogram going back to the 1930’s, with a tradition of oblique aerial photography[low-elevation angled photographs taken in multiple directions] usinga hand-held camera. With a few rare exceptions, we didn’t have experienceof that here, so we said, “This won’t do, we’ll have to use vertical aerial pictures,where a plane flies in a straight line with a camera attached to the bottomthat takes a photograph every five seconds. These are overlapping pairsof photos, so with stereoscopic equipment we can look into every single fieldin the country. After the flights, we sent field teams out to check the interestingsites, and included the data in our records. It was hugely productive.Two years later, when I was back lecturing in Cambridge, David Wilson,the head of the Cambridge Aerial Archeological Unit had just published hisbook on aerial photography in Britain, in which he made a sweeping statementthat vertical aerial photography is of very little use for settlement studies,but by the time I finished, he was eating his hat. The Royal Air Forcehad flown over Britain doing vertical photography dozens of times, whichshowed up many of the crop mark sites 2 that had long been ploughed out,and I was able to show them: “They’re actually there as standing artwork,lads, if you look at your own vertical collections.” So what was good for us2 [Ed. note] Crop mark sites: A means by which sub-surface archaeological and natural features may be visiblefrom the air, and along with soil marks and frost marks, can reveal buried archaeological sites not visiblefrom the ground. Crop marks appear due to different conditions of growth and soil. A buried stone wall, forexample, will affect crop growth above it, as its presence channels water away from its area and occupies thespace of the more fertile soil. Conversely, a buried ditch, filled with more organic matter than the naturalearth will naturally collect water there, nourishing the plants that are growing above. These differences inconditions cause some plants to grow more strongly and therefore taller, and others less strongly and thereforeshorter. Some species will also react through differential ripening of their fruits or their overall color, andall of these patterns can be seen most effectively from the air, where small changes can be seen as differencesin tone or color. Fields of grain, peas, and potatoes are particularly noticeable, and will naturally follow anyfeatures buried below.2223

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 2 (#45)CROAGH PATRICKwas also good for Britain and we got fantastic help from the British archeologiststo get started. Whatever computer programs we needed, they wereours. They were just brilliant.So, between the jigs and the reels, we developed a very effective way ofmapping large blocks of land. We mapped about 100,000 Irish sites, andfound 10,000 new ones: many were early Christian churches, and some wereearly Christian monasteries, generally consisting of a little church, a graveyard,an enclosure, road access and a series of earthworks. We were able topick up a vast array of new sites, but never got to publish them fully becauseMurrisk Abbey, near the base of the pilgrim’s path, 1990.our job was to document and map them and to put planning constraintsaround them, feeding into a whole system of governance and protection.I’d already known there was a lot out there because I’d found over fortymegalithic tombs just in this area. When I’d gone to university I was told,“There’s nothing of archeological interest in Connemara.” This was one ofthese statements academics love to make when they haven’t bothered to doany field work in forty years, but because I grew up here, where there’s a lotof Irish spoken and we have many place-names associated with monuments,Confession at the summit, 1951. Courtesy Harry Hughes.as well as a myriad of stories of the síogí (Shee-Oh-G-EE) fairies associatedwith the sites. If you’re open to hearing all that, you’re bound to find something.I’d been finding sites every day of the week, virtually, so I brought thatknowledge to the other parts of Ireland that I worked in.I also gave lectures wherever I happened to be working. There’d alwaysbe a shy character in the back who’d never put up his hand, and I’d wonder,“Why does that guy look so uncomfortable, now? What’s he doing at thelecture?” I had a great nose for picking out people who were bursting to tellyou something, but didn’t have the confidence to stand up. It was great gettingthese stories. One wonderful man we met, a postman, was a self-taughtexpert in medieval Latin and could read it fluently. He came to us very timidly,overly-respectful, as if we knew everything. He knew about one hundredtimes more than us about medieval landscapes and all of these sources.So with all of this we started fitting in with amateur archeologists, historiansand place-name specialists.All of this fed into our work, but Croagh Patrick was particularly excitingbecause it had never been done before. Jerry Walsh, who also worked for us2425

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 2 (#45)CROAGH PATRICKsaid, “I want to set you up as a small private foundation, with minimal funding,minimal interference, and a small team.” Since then we’ve done a numberof publications, surveys and excavations trying to enhance the archeologicalrecord, at the same time, putting it out to people that this is a hugelyimportant landscape in itself. Harry Hughes, the chairman and originator ofour group, has written a wonderful book called Croagh Patrick, A Place ofPilgrimage, A Place of Beauty.RTE: And what have you found there?MICHAEL: Gerry Bracken, who took the remarkable multiple exposure photosof the sun setting on the mountain, also flew the Reek when it was coveredwith snow. Snow is very rare here, but when it does happen, you get a fantasticlight. Jerry came one day to show me his wonderful photograph of the mountain,with the church in snow and the sea behind. I said, “Jerry, don’t mindthe church, look what the church is sitting in.” Of course, what it was sitting inwas, from the air, clearly a monastic enclosure.I managed to get a set of photographs from 1905, when the present churchon the summit was built. There was a huge throng of people that year, becausethe pilgrimage was being revived as an official Catholic pilgrimage.In those photographs, you could just pick out the early ramparts on eitherside, which have since been degraded by people taking stones for souvenirs.During the building of the 1905 church, the workers found a burial up there,which was interpreted as the grave of a famous 19th-century guide, Bob o’the Reek, who’d been buried on the summit, but almost certainly this gravewasn’t his. It was probably a much earlier cemetery that they’d dug into.When we started working on the summit, we found a number of structuresthat we’d spotted from the aerial photography, one of which turned out tobe a small oratory, which we excavated. The oratory was set within the widerenclosure, and outside of that, on the scree slope, we found about twenty huthollows dug into the mountainside.RTE: These hut hollows were sites of monastic cells?MICHAEL: We don’t know. We excavated them through the scree and we gotsome artifact images, but the context wasn’t clear, so we’re still not sure.RTE: Were you able to date the oratory?MICHAEL: Yes, we’re pretty sure it’s from between the fifth to the eighth cen-tury, but we haven’t gotten any closer than that. It was a sunken oratory,sunken into the hill, which makes sense when you’re up on this very steeppeak. The doorway faced east, and we have a number of early churches likethis. If you’d had the more normal western-facing door (with an eastern facingaltar) in this building you’d have just blown down the mountain. TeampallBenan, on top of the hill at Cill Éinne on Aran, has a north-south orientation.It was an identical structure to ours in terms of size, shape, and theform of the building, which was a sort of corbelled, up-turned boat-shapedplan. So the oratory was a very important discovery, and we left the rest ofit unexcavated. Then we had to seal the whole thing off again because thesouvenir hunters and pilgrims got wind of it.There is evidence of this chapel’s existence recorded in 824 when theArchbishop of Armagh had an argument with the Archbishop of Tuam asArmagh was claiming church dues from Teampall Phadraig. This shows thatthe church on the summit was in use.RTE: Wouldn’t it make sense that the hut hollows in the scree were monasticcells for a community that worshipped in the oratory? The monks surelycouldn’t have made the climb from the bottom every day.MICHAEL: I can say that after a couple of weeks of our team working upthere, we could climb Croagh Patrick in an hour. You get adapted, and I’msure the monks did too. It’s arduous for us moderns because we aren’t usedto hard physical work, but that’s something rather new. Before he emigrated,my father cycled seventeen miles to work every day and the same back, andthat wasn’t unusual. I do believe people were living on top of Croagh Patrick,but for how long, we’re not sure. Another possibility is that the remote monasterieswere seasonal—perhaps they only lived there for part of the year.One of the other marvelous sites on the mountain we found with the helpof a local hill farmer. He couldn’t come up because he was too elderly, so weclimbed down a thousand feet from the summit with him directing us fromthe bottom. With his help we found a lovely remote monastic cell recessedinto the scree slope, looking out toward the main pilgrimage route. It was anamazing site. This was probably a penitential cell, a private little spot.So now we have a confirmed major early-church site on top of Croagh Patrick,and we have an historical account of the year 1113, when thirty peoplewere killed in a lightning strike while climbing the Reek on the night pilgrimage.We also have accounts of raids on the Reek.2627

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 2 (#45)CROAGH PATRICKRTE: So you have the textual evidence and a confirmed site! Climbing Mt.Sinai, you also pass the ruins of a small cell off of the route. In earlier centuries,there was a monk there and pilgrims couldn’t climb past that point untilthey’d confessed. Might this have been similar or was it too far off the path?MICHAEL: About that, we don’t know, but one of the problems today is thatmany archeologists working on sites have no background to even thinkabout such things. They live in a post-religious world, and to them these arejust buildings. So their interpretations are not based on any experience orwhen a pilgrim died at Clonmacnoise according to the Annals of the FourMasters. Many pilgrimage destinations are mentioned in the Annals but oftenonly once or twice and only if some other event happened during thepilgrimage such as the 1113 lightning storm. Unfortunately, we don’t havemany pilgrimage records. We do have an old inscription on Mt. Brandon referringto a pilgrim, but most of our written accounts of pilgrimage are fromIreland to Rome or Jerusalem. There’s one very early account mentionedby Dicuil, an Irish geographer at the Carolingian Court around 767, of anIrishman who had been to Jerusalem and Egypt and described seeing theSticks for the Reek, 1990. Courtesy Harry Hughes.understanding of the religious setting, and they have no taste for it. This is amassive gap. They treat the church or cell as if it’s a Neolithic tomb.RTE: Could the date of 1113 for the night pilgrimage indicate that the pilgrimagehad been going on long before? If the oratory was a 5th—8th century foundation,isn’t it likely that Croagh Patrick had attracted pilgrims for centuries?MICHAEL: We don’t know exactly when the pilgrimage to Croagh Patrick began.The earliest reference to a pilgrim going to an Irish site is from 606 ADDan Gwain and children as he sets off for the Reek, 1957. Courtesy Harry Hughes.pyramids. The Annals of Inisfallen also record the King of the Déisí going toJerusalem in 1080.Croagh Patrick is also associated with a series of other 5th-8th centurymonasteries (and some a little later) on the lower slopes that have been longabandoned, though some are still used as burial grounds. These include anumber of significant sites to the east and north faces where you’ve got avery good sliver of land for growing food. The transect on the front face ofCroagh Patrick has a high number of monuments of all periods, and we think2829

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 2 (#45)CROAGH PATRICKthat the lower church sites were probably supporting monasteries for thesummit monastery itself.We reckoned all along that there had to have been something up there,but monasteries were often only mentioned when they were attacked, and inany case the records were destroyed in various troubles. We’ve been able toconfirm what was in the earlier accounts.RTE: Where are these accounts from?MICHAEL: The Annals of the Four Masters, mostly. These were four 17thcenturyIrish clerics who, when the whole of Ireland was convulsed by war,furiously gathered manuscripts from monasteries all over the country andcompiled these annals. The Annals are like a year-by-year diary written fromthe 6th century onwards, right up until the Middle Ages. Similar individualannals are still kept by monasteries, but many of the originals have been lost.Some, like the Annals of Armagh, survive because these monasteries kepttheir own annals. They were serious scholars who were conscious that Gaelicculture was being destroyed. It was destroyed, and this was a desperate attemptto rescue the culture, or at least its key documents.RTE: Was this destruction mostly under Cromwell? 3MICHAEL: Not only Cromwell. You had nine years of the Elizabethan wars, 4then you have about thirty years that included the Plantations of Ulster 5 andthe invasion of Cromwell, and then the Williamite Wars 6 at the end of the 17th3 Oliver Cromwell (1599-1658): An English military and political leader who defeated the royalists in theEnglish Civil War. After the execution of Catholic King Charles I in 1649, the Puritan Cromwell dominated theshort-lived Commonwealth of England, brutally conquered Ireland and Scotland and ruled as Lord Protectorfrom 1653 until his death. His measures against the Irish Catholic population and culture were genocidal.4 Elizabethan and Nine Years Wars (1562-1603): The Elizabethan War began around 1562 during the reignof Elizabeth I when the English began forcibly replacing Irish lords with English Protestants. Irish resistanceresulted in the defeat of the Desmond clan and the reallocation of their estates to the English. The Nine YearsWar (1594-1603) was a continuation of the struggle against the growing English Protestant power in Ireland.The Irish were forced to surrender in 1603.5 Plantations of Ulster: Beginning in 1606, an organized, forced colonization of the Irish province of Ulster(previously the most Gaelic province of Ireland and the most resistant to English invasion) by wealthy Englishand Scottish Protestant landowners. After 1609, the plantation was officially overseen by King James Iof England and VI of Scotland. A half-million acres of land were illegally confiscated, with many native Irishdying of starvation.6 Williamite War: (Also known as the Jacobite War) was a late 17th-century conflict between Catholic KingJames II and Protestant William of Orange after the deposition of James II as King of the Three Kingdoms.James was supported by Irish Catholic Jacobites in Ireland, who were defeated in 1691. The war had a lastingeffect on Ireland, confirming British and Protestant rule over the country for over a century.century. Classically, these are English-Irish wars, but there are many layersto this, because there were also Norman Irish here, sometimes called the OldEnglish, who remained Catholic after the Reformation—like my own familywho came to Ireland under the Gaelicized Normans. But by the 17th century,your ethnic background was no longer as important as your religion andwhen Cromwell came, he came to defeat the Catholic Irish, without distinguishingbetween the Old English and the Gaelic Irish. Key English familieswho had always been faithful to the crown but had remained Catholic werestripped of their lands just like the Gaelic Irish. But these educated landownerstended to be more politically astute, so often they’d end up with four sonson different sides in every row, so that after treaties were signed they couldsometimes receive their lands back. The Gaelicized Normans were more fleetof foot than the Gaelic families, who were by and large exterminated, exiled,and lost virtually everything. That world survived longer, of course, in Scotland.The pro-royalist Jacobites hung on until 1745, the Battle of Culloden.RTE: I imagine that before Cromwell the Gaelic Irish and the Norman Irishhad lived apart?MICHAEL: For a while they did. The Normans came in the 12th century, andquickly began to establish themselves in towns scattered all over Ireland,and as powerful provincial landowners. Gaelic Ireland remained mostly rural,but during the 14th-century outbreak of the Black Death, most Normantowns failed precisely because the Normans were town dwellers and theIrish weren’t. It hit the towns hard.Galway is a good example of a walled Norman city, but after its devastationby the plague, you find 15th-century statutes brought in to forbid thespeaking of Irish and the playing of Irish games. We know from this that thediminished Norman English culture of the city must have already shiftedtoward the surrounding Gaelic. At that period, although Galway is officiallyEnglish, culturally it’s becoming Irish, and the officials are going cracked.With the Reformation in the 16th century, you have other new settlers comingin: another complex combination with Protestant officials stepping onthe toes of Galway’s old Norman Catholic magnates, who themselves hadbeen sent there centuries earlier to keep the Irish quiet. Then, with the Reformationand the coming of Cromwell, Norman Catholics now have to throwin their lot with their traditional enemies, the native Irish. Once the Puritanarmies arrive they have a common enemy.3031

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 2 (#45)CROAGH PATRICKA papal legate is sent to Ireland with arms and money to put a bit of Catholicsteel to the flagging Irish effort, but the Irish, while Catholic, were quitepolitical as well and weren’t necessarily fighting for a Catholic state. Theywere fighting for their lives and land. They had other alliances too, becauseyou also had English Protestant royalists from England and the continentwho were fighting alongside Irish troops for the reinstatement of the monarchy.At the end of the Cromwellian wars, the Irish are destroyed.Inishbofin, near here, was the last stronghold of the native Irish in thewest. The island surrendered on terms, which they were lucky to do. TheyMICHAEL: Yes, both as indentured servants and as slaves. The earliest existingmaps we have of Croagh Patrick are from this dark period. From the 16thcentury, the mountain is marked as a sanctuary. William Petty, a mapmakerfor the Cromwellian regime in Ireland, mapped the lands of the “papists”and of disloyal Protestants. These are fantastic maps of every parish, describingwho lives there: Irish, papists, rebels, description of land, and afterwards,the confiscated land and who is going to be granted the land. Thewars in Ireland were funded by venture capitalists and soldier merchants,all of whom had to be paid. So, you have wholesale confiscations going onPilgrims on summit of Croagh Patrick, c. 1904. (Wynne Collection)escaped with their lives and sailed to France with about 700 people. In the17th century, hundreds of thousands of Irish are exiles in France, Spain, thePapal States, Austria-Hungary, Poland, anywhere there is a Catholic country,and Irish armies are being raised from the émigré Irish populations inLouvane, Salamanca, Rome and Vienna.RTE: I’ve also read that more than 12,000 Irish were sent by the Englishconquerors as indentured servants to the Caribbean.Pilgrims outside St. Patrick’s Oratory, 1905. (Wynne collection)to pay soldiers and investors, and masses of people migrating to the continent.Culturally, the population is beheaded. Under the Penal Laws, no IrishCatholic can practice a profession or hold public office. The country’s IrishCatholic schools are closed and no Catholic may teach. Irish may not serve inthe army, adopt orphans, or at some periods, even live in towns. Pilgrimageis also banned, although not very effectively. There are no longer any priestsor bishops, they’ve all been executed or banished on pain of death. Thereare a few religious remaining in secret, but the great majority of church sites3233

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 2 (#45)CROAGH PATRICKthat had survived the Middle Ages are abandoned. There is nothing left tothe Irish of their traditional religion except going to holy wells and climbingCroagh Patrick. From the 1780s onwards, many of these restrictions weregradually eased and the British Government even funded the new CatholicUniversity in Maynooth. Full Catholic Emancipation came in the 1820’s.RTE: How many of the Catholic clergy survived?MICHAEL: By the end of the 17th century, huge areas have none at all. In fact,in 19th-century Connemara when Irish-speaking evangelical Protestant missionarieswere swarming all over the place, people had been without churchesand sacraments for so long that they didn’t know the difference. Theyknew that earlier there’d been Irish-speaking priests, so they were quitehappy to go to a Protestant mission to get some food and go to the servicesuntil the difference was pointed out to them.Reverend MacManus, a Protestant minister (and ex-priest, which wasquite unusual) described their awakening: “We were making great inroadswith the Joyces of the Inagh Valley”… until someone must have poisoned theatmosphere against him, and told the Joyces that he wasn’t a Catholic priestat all, but a Protestant minister. They didn’t know what a Protestant ministerwas, but he was obviously something he shouldn’t have been. (laughter) OnAran, when they were told that he wasn’t a real priest, they wouldn’t takehim off, so he wandered the island for weeks, looking for a way back to themainland.In the 16th and 17th centuries, only the pilgrimage sites continued as anoutward religious practice; otherwise there’s total war. When the Irish brokethe “rules” the English would launch cruel punitive raids, and all hell wouldbe unleashed on top of them. Defeated Gaelic chiefs would often sign a deal:no more raiding, no more attacking English crown land or the English allies.But if a Gaelic lord isn’t raiding, he’s not really a Gaelic lord. After a fewyears, they’d get bored and break out in rebellion. If the rebellion was strongenough, like that of Grace O’Malley, the Irish pirate queen, they’d be offeredanother pardon by the English. So there was a succession of surrenders, rebellionsand pardons, until finally the English would go in and garrison theplace, taking all of the land. Our Irish history is often written from a nationalistpoint of view that there was a pre-conceived plan by the English tocolonize the whole country, but often, the confiscation was by default. Thesemountain areas of Connemara and parts of Mayo survived the longest. Theywere so isolated that even some paganism survived in remote corners; therewas a medieval Ireland still clinging on.The Irish LanguageRTE: Speaking the Irish language was also forbidden under the English,wasn’t it? Can you say something about today’s Irish/Gaelic speakers?MICHAEL: Yes, a massive effort was made to anglicize Gaelic society, and aknowledge of English became necessary in order to interact with the state orthe legal system. Linguistically, Irish is the same language from Scotland allthe way down. It is a British language as well as an Irish language, but a differentdialect. Today there are probably no more than 60,000 who speak itnaturally every day of the week, and half a million more who can speak it, butdon’t use it as their primary everyday language. Roughly half of Connemararemains Irish speaking.I worked in London on building sites when I was 17. This was 1976, and Iremember that one of the men on the site was very quiet. Donegal, we usedto call him, and Donegal wouldn’t say a word to anyone. But one day I hearda man from Spiddal, a village south of here, talking in Irish and I said inIrish, “How are you, where are you from?” When Donegal heard he ran overto me and said, “You’re able to speak.” He’d lived in London for a few yearsand had never learned English and didn’t want anyone to know because themost embarrassing thing within an immigrant community is not to speakthe host language.There were a lot of Irish people in London from Connemara, Aran, andDonegal that arrived with so little English that they kept themselves withinthat community. There’s a very large Irish-speaking community in London,as there is in New York, Boston, and Chicago, but they tend not to pass it onto the next generation. There was huge antagonism towards Irish languagefrom the 17th century onwards in Ireland. The Irish-speaking Lords weregone, as was the clergy, so it simply went down the social order.There’s a wonderful early 18th-century account of one of the Irish O’Connorchiefs in exile in Austria-Hungary. He is meeting the Archduke in Vienna,and an old Irish émigré chief is also there who greets his two young cousins,who had just come from Roscommon, in Irish. They are embarrassedand say, “We don’t speak the old language anymore.” The archduke replies,“What sort of culture are you that you don’t even speak your own language?”3435

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 2 (#45)CROAGH PATRICKWe have a national Irish radio and television station now, but there is stillan on-going decline. Before independence, Irish was often beaten out of youin the schools. My grandfather went to school in the national school system.They had to wear a tally-stick around their neck, and every time theyspoke Irish it was notched and they were beaten at the end of the day. Sothere was tremendous pressure to have English to get on in life. The world ofcommerce, of respectability, of advancement, was all in English. Then, afterall; he wanted to be a modern Irish person. Irish is still in sharp decline, eventhough it’s obligatory in school. You can’t matriculate without it, but it’s notpart of the deep culture.Now, the areas around here speak it, but my children don’t, even though Ispeak to them in Irish. My sister lives south of us and her children do speakit, because they’ve been brought up in an Irish-speaking village. Irish is stillspoken in parts of Belfast as part of a nationalist identity.Roman Catholic mass on summit of Croagh Patrick with Archbishop Neary, 2008. First Station of the Reek, 1985.Independence, they tried to beat Irish back into you, which left many peoplewith ambiguous feelings toward the language.This attitude has changed now, but not the deep change we need. We don’thave the strength of the language like in Wales or in northern Scotland,where the Presbyterian Church is very conscious of holding onto the language.In Ireland, despite an official position of support, the cultural impactof colonization and anti-Irish prejudice is strong. The people most againstthe Irish language are the generation who’ve abandoned it, like my father.His parents and older sister were Irish speakers, but he had no time for it atThe Tragedy of the National Archives; Later LiteratureRTE: Are there accounts of people climbing Croagh Patrick during the periodof the penal laws?MICHAEL: We know they did, but there are only spartan accounts. Our bigdifficulty with historical records is that in 1922 during the Civil War afterthe British left, the historical records in the Four Courts in Dublin were destroyed.Our whole history went up in smoke. Anti-treaty forces, opposed3637

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 2 (#45)CROAGH PATRICKto the new government and the terms of the settlement with Britain, seizedcontrol of buildings in the centre of Dublin. The forces of the new Irish Government,Michael Collins and his men, shelled the national archives withincendiary shells and 90% of the country’s written records were lost. Thisis one of the great tragedies of Irish history, because these records had surviveda thousand years of war. The loss is irreparable.RTE: How incredibly sad.MICHAEL: Yes. It probably isn’t until the 17th century again, that we have anaccount of Croagh Patrick being climbed on its traditional day, the last Sundayin July. Until today, there is also another pilgrimage to the top done onthe Friday before, by the people who live west of Croagh Patrick. It is calledCrom Dubh Friday. Crom Dubh (“black and bent”) was the pagan demonassociated with St. Patrick on Croagh Patrick. Local history is full of thesebattles between Patrick and Crom Dubh: Patrick always wins, of course, andthe devil is drowned in the lake at the bottom. The mountain is also regularlyclimbed on St. Patrick’s Day, but this is often very wintry weather, and therehave been many fatalities just from the cold. But there are always climbers,every day of the year.For the millennium year in 2000 we wanted to have the night pilgrimageback, which was the original tradition. One wise-cracker said, “The reasonit was a night pilgrimage is obvious. If you’d seen the height of it during theday, you’d never go up.” (laughter)Although we’ve lost most of the earlier historical records, one of the bestdescriptions of climbing Croagh Patrick is by Asenath Nicholson in her 19thcenturyaccount, Ireland’s Welcome to the Stranger. She had met impoverishedIrish in the hovels of New York. She’s a sort of evangelical protestantbut not pushy—in fact, she’s not a very enthusiastic evangelist. She gives outthe odd tract here and there but she’s much more interested in these newneighbors that have turned up. They’re half-starved, they’re very quarrelsome,but they’ve a great sense of life and fun. This is the Irish. She finallymoves to Ireland to see where they’ve come from, and she walks throughoutIreland right before and during the famine, and gives some harrowing accounts.She writes from Clifden to Letterfrack and calls it the most impoverishedplace she’s seen to date in Ireland. She climbs the Diamond, and thenshe goes to Croagh Patrick and is negotiating for a girl guide to bring her upthe mountain. She was asked for six pennies, but in the end she climbs up onher own. The guides at the bottom are horrified that she’s going up on herown, but she won’t pay. She climbs up through the cloud and the mist anddescribes sliding down the scree. She’s a wonderful writer.Another of the best accounts is by Patrick Kavanagh, one of our most famous20th-century Irish writers, who wrote in the 50’s. (This account is inHarry Hughes’ book). Also, T. H. White, who wrote The Once and FutureKing. White was in Ireland during the Second World War as a conscientiousobjector and wrote a fabulous book called The Godstone and the Blackymor.The godstone is a stone the Inishkea Islanders were said to worshipas an idol and which they certainly used to perform magic and cast curses,but it was almost certainly a medieval saint statuette. This is a wonderfulnovel about the whole northwest, and even though he’s Protestant, he makesa marvelous account of it. It’s often the outside observers who pick up ondetails that you don’t see. Because our own archives were destroyed, theseoblique views on the culture and the pilgrimage are hugely important.RTE: With the records destroyed, there is even less physical evidence fromthose early centuries, but what can you tell us about the Black Bell of St. Patrick,which I understand is associated with the Reek?MICHAEL: The bell was traditionally brought on the Croagh Patrick pilgrimageevery year by the Geraghty family; pilgrims could kiss it for a penny. It isnow in the National Museum in Dublin and is an early Christian hand-bellcalled the ‘Clog Dubh Phádraig’ (the Black Bell of St Patrick). It is also knownas ‘Bearnán Bhrighde’ (the gapped bell of Brigid) and the ‘Clog Geal’ (thebright bell). All of the early accounts mention it. It was used to swear on inlegal matters (it was believed that the devil would carry off the swearer if hetold an untruth). In 1838 it was owned by Hugh Geraghty who told the antiquarianJohn O’Donovan that the bell was originally white but turned blackas a result of the constant pelting at demons by the saint.RTE: True enough in spirit, anyway. Now, to end, pilgrims obviously climbCroagh Patrick out of love for God and the saint, but for what other reasons dopeople climb? You’ve already mentioned fulfilling vows, such as the Travellerwoman who tried to climb it three successive times for her nephew’s health.MICHAEL: People climb it for all sorts of reasons. My brother climbed it becausehe’s a bomb disposal officer in the Irish army and he was going on a3839

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 2 (#45)CROAGH PATRICKdangerous mission to Kosovo to clear mines just after the war. At the momenthe’s in Chad, clearing mines from around the refugee camps on theDarfur border. That climb was for a very particular reason, that St. Patrickkeep an eye on him.A lot of the Travellers climb because they have a personal attachment toPatrick, who’ll intervene on their behalf. Other people climb because they areabout to do something important in their lives: getting married, taking exams(such as your leaving-certificate for school—the hardest exam you’ll ever do,with eight comprehensive subjects. That exam decides the rest of your life.)Sometimes, a whole class will do it at the end of their test. When they havetheir results, they’ll all go together. Sometimes also, people climb for otherpeople. For example, you might climb for a sick member of your family, astrong tradition in the 19th century. I remember while climbing in the Himalayas,one of our guides told me, “I don’t know why I’m a Buddhist. We’re allBuddhists.” For some Irish this is the same; it’s part of our tradition.I was there two years ago when the Catholic cardinal from Northern Irelandclimbed. He was a fit man, and I think he may have been up before, butthis was his first time climbing the Reek as a cardinal. It was wonderful becauseit was a really foggy day and the summit was thronged because everyonewanted to be at his mass. As he was saying mass, the sun broke throughthe clouds and suddenly Clew Bay was sparkling in the distance with anothermountain behind also lit up. It stopped him in his tracks in the middle ofmass—everyone saw it. The whole majesty of the place is overwhelming andit was fabulous that he was aware of that.The great thing is to see that even with all of the changes going on in Ireland,the pilgrimage sites are holding their own.His recent publications include a book, Connemara: Visions of Iar Chonnacht, Cottage Publications(2004) as well as dozens of articles for academic and scientific journals, and hasrecently spoken widely at conferences about the Skellig Islands in Cork, at Harvard and at theSmithsonian Institute in Washington D.C.Currently Michael works as an independent archaeologist, and is looking at upland settlementin the Reeks for a forthcoming publication by Con Moriarty. His research interests include thearchaeology of the intertidal zone and the pilgrimage tradition in Ireland with a particular focuson holy mountains and islands.Michael provides a guide service for walking groups interested in archaeological field trips inConnemara. He can be contacted at walkwest@eircom.net.With thanks to Harry Hughes for many of the photos in this interview:Harry Hughes, Croagh Patrick: A Place of Pilgrimage, A Place of Beauty,The O’Brien Press Ltd., Dublin, 2010.Harry Hughes, Croagh Patrick: An Ancient Mountain Pilgrimage, 1991,pub. Harry Hughes, New Road, Westport County, Mayo.Michael Gibbons is a member of the Institute of Archaeologists of Ireland. He has twenty-fiveyears of experience as an archaeologist and recently completed a five-year term as a memberof the Archaeology Committee of the Heritage Council. He has worked with the Department ofAntiquities in Jerusalem and for the Museum of London City Excavation Programme. In Ireland,Michael worked on the Donegal Archaeological Survey and Galway Archaeological Survey and isa former co-director of the National Sites and Monuments Record Office of Public Works. He hasdirected surveys and excavations on Croagh Patrick and has mapped the uplands and islandsof the Connacht Coast.4041

THEASTONISHINGMISSIONARYJOURNEYS OFTHE APOSTLEANDREWGeorge Alexandrou, international reporter, writer, and political commentator, on his thousand-pagebook in Greek, He Raised the Cross on the Ice, exploring the sources, traditions,routes and cultures of St. Andrew’s apostolate. George’s own enthusiasm and love for St.Andrew made our long months of working together more than an assignment, it became ashared pilgrimage.BEGINNINGSRTE: George, please tell us about your background and how you began thisepic project of reconstructing St. Andrew’s journeys.GEORGE: Yes, but before I begin, I have to say that at certain times in my lifeI’ve been very blind. I can speak about the Taliban, about international policy,about government leaders, but I’m not righteous enough to speak orwrite about St. Andrew. This is how I feel and I must say so at the beginning.My background is that I went to the university as one of the best studentsin Greece, but dropped out to become a hippie and a traveler, a fighter forthe ecological movement, and then just an “easy rider.” When I returned toGreece, by chance, or perhaps God’s will, I turned to journalism and wasMosaic of St. Andrew, Cathedral of Holy Apostle Andrew, Patras, Greece.3

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 4 (#19)the astonishing missionary journeys of the apostle andrewquite successful. I became the director of an important Greek historicaljournal, had a rather flashy career in Cyprus as a TV news director, andtraveled around the world for some major journalist associations. I workedfreelance in many media, but finally understood that this was not exactlyhow I wanted to live my life.Since then, I married, had two children, lost my health, and over the pastfew years have done a lot of thinking. Now, I’m with the Voice of Greece,broadcasting a weekly radio news show to Greeks and Greek-speakersworld-wide. It’s a very diverse audience including Greeks in the diaspora,Greek-speaking Russian Orthodox monks in Siberia, Pakistani immigrantswho learned Greek here and have now returned to Pakistan, scholars ofancient Greek who want to hear the modern Greek language, and so on.Foremost, however, I’m a traveler and I travel still. I like to feel the essenceof people all over the world.RTE: I remember that you once told me you have come across many smallunrelated ethnic groups who believed they were descendants of Alexanderthe Great.GEORGE: Yes. In my own way, I’m a specialist in this. I’ve met people all overthe world who claim to be of Greek ancestry. They may trace their heritagefrom the ancient Greeks, Byzantines, or modern Greeks, but they all claimto be Greek. It’s very strange, you pick up a stone in any part of the worldand underneath you’ll find a Greek.We have descendants of ancient Greeks in Calabria (southern Italy), theCrimea, and the whole Black Sea region. This is from the Greco-Romanworld. Then, we have the legacy of Alexander the Great in central Asia, inIndia, in Sudan, in Egypt, in Iraq, in Armenia, even in the TaklimakanDesert in Niya (China). It isn’t we Greeks who claim this; these peoplethemselves have a long tradition that they are Greek. For instance, someleaders of the remote Araucan tribes of Chile claim that they are descendedfrom the ancient Spartans (and they certainly didn’t learn about theSpartans from history books). There are even central Africans who claim tobe descendants of Alexander the Great’s soldiers or the Ptolemaic Greeks.Through the Ptolemaic Greeks, we also have a connection with Indonesia.During the Ptolemaic period, the Indonesians were very great travelers andsailed the Indian and Pacific Oceans for distances like that of Cardiff to NewYork. Greeks, Arabs and Indonesians all traveled to Tanzania.You find Greek faces in strange places all over the world. There aredescendants of Greek-Chinese in Niya, China’s Sinkiang region, as I said,and there was a Greek-Chinese kingdom in today’s Uzbekistan. For a time Iwas a scholar of Greco-Buddhism, which has a very strong legacy in centralAsia, and there you can trace the origins of Buddhism’s transformation froma philosophical practice to a world religion through the descendants ofGreeks from the time of Alexander the Great in Greco-Indian Gandhara, innorthwest India.I’ve also investigated descendants of the Byzantine Greeks, who, in easternlands under the Turks, were called Rum-Orthodox, meaning “Roman”Orthodox, as Constantinople was the New Rome: the Rum-Orthodox ofPalestine, Iraq, Jordan, Syria, the Rum-patriarchates of Alexandria, Antiochand Jerusalem – and also the Catholic uniatesof the Middle East who claim to bedescendants of Byzantine Greeks whoguarded the Byzantine Emperor and callthemselves Greek-Catholics.People journeyed over vast areas in antiquityand we know quite a lot about theirtravels. For instance, Claudius Ptolemydrew a map of the ancient world in the secondcentury after Christ (and this is a realGeorge Alexandroumap of the world as we know it today). From Ptolemy and other Hellenisticgeographers and historians we know that there were extensive trade routessuch as the Silk Road, the Cinnamon Road, the Spice Road, the Golden Roadfrom the Kingdom of Zimbabwe to the Mediterranean Sea, and the AmberRoad from the Baltic Sea to Rome, through Denmark and the British Isles. TheVerangian Road (as it was called by the Byzantines) was traveled by Herodotus1,400 years ago, and went from the Crimea through Kiev, straight to Valaamoand the Baltic Sea. Centuries earlier it was called the Dneper Road.There was another major route connecting the Mediterranean to Cornwallin the British Isles, the Tin or Pewter Road. Then we had the famous SilkRoute, which united the Chinese Han Empire with Rome. There was also atrade route along the Nile between Meroe and Axum, the kingdoms ofSudan and Ethiopia. The Cinnamon Road connected Shanghai in Chinawith Indonesia and Borneo, through Java to Tanzania. The Spice Road unitedChina through Burma, Sri Lanka and present-day Pakistan to the Red45

the astonishing missionary journeys of the apostle andrewSea. You can imagine, these were all important routes and a simple, unostentatiousman like St. Andrew could take any of them easily.RTE: Were the ancient and classical maps more accurate than later medievalmaps in the West?GEORGE: Yes, later Christians would say, “Paradise was here, the earth wasflat, etc.,” but if you look at the old Greek maps, they not only knew the earthwas round, but the longitudes and latitudes are the same on their maps aswe know them today. They are not exactly the same because we count oursfrom Greenwich and they didn’t, but you can correlate them precisely. Youcan even find America and Australia on some maps (i.e. the map of Cratesthe Maleot in 150 B.C.). This is why I believe we can accurately locate theseplaces from the old traditions. When barbaric peoples invaded the olderChristian civilizations and became Christian themselves, this was right spiritually,but it was a catastrophe for civilization. Night fell on education andlearning, although spiritually and culturally it was a dawn for the barbarians.It was their time, for the first time in history.RTE: Although there were dangers from bandits and smugglers, there probablyweren’t the kind of border controls we have now.GEORGE: Yes, but even now there are dangers. Going to Siberia isn’t anysafer now than it was 2,000 years ago, but there was often another attitudetowards travelers then. Although there were always dangers, in manyancient cultures a traveler was sacred, he was from far away and people didn’twant to despoil him; they wanted to hear about his country and his civilization.You didn’t need visas, documents, you were not even in need offriends because you were a special person, a traveler. You were coming withfar-off ideas, different beliefs, strange dress. You were more often a personto admire than someone to fight or to steal from. In the ancient world passingtravelers were laden with gifts – this was Marco Polo’s experience. Thosewere different times. With my own decades of traveling to difficult and exoticplaces, it is easy for me to understand how St. Andrew could have traveledas extensively as the traditions recount.RTE: When we first spoke about your research you made the remark thatwhen the Lord told the apostles to preach the gospel to the ends of the earth,they did not think this meant their descendants. They took this literally.Mosaic of St. Andrew from St. Catherine’s Monastery, Sinai.7

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 4 (#19)the astonishing missionary journeys of the apostle andrewGEORGE: Yes, we have many written traditions from the second and third centuriesA.D. that the apostles went to Middle Asia, to sub-Saharan Africa, toIndia, even to old Burma. They went to the land of Sogdiana, which is modernUzbekistan/western China… we had all these memories and traditions ofthe first years of Christianity, but we thought they were just strange tales.Now, with the help of archeology, we understand that these roads did exist,and that many, many people took them. We know, for example, that theIndonesians were traveling from Java to Tanzania across the Indian ocean.They had large, well-balanced outrigger canoes, and they would load themwith their families, livestock, food and water, and set out from Java – sometimestraveling for a lifetime. This is how they discovered Madagascar. Theysailed the open oceans without any fear. The Celts also were extensive travelersin the North Atlantic with their leather-covered boats, the curraghs.Another example of widespread travel is that in 330 B.C., Pithias knewnorthern Europe well. He had been to Cornwall, to Scotland, to Thule (somesay that ancient Thule was Iceland, others Greenland, others NorthernScandinavia) and from there he traveled to Marseilles in forty-five days.RTE: In forty-five days!GEORGE: Yes. And in Claudius Ptolemy’s (100-170 A.D.) geography we haveDiogenes – a second Diogenes, not the philosopher – who, during the apostolictimes, left by ship from Alexandria and went to Azania, present-dayTanzania, to a place called Rapta. From Tanzania he walked for twenty-fivedays to the mountains of Ruvenzori between Lake Albert and Lake Edwardin what is now Rwanda, Uganda, Congo-Zaire. You see, it was a small worldat that time, and the Greeks already knew the source of the Nile.So, when the Lord told the apostles to go to the ends of the earth, theGreco-Roman knowledge of the world at that time was quite specific. Theyknew where the ends of the earth were. For the ancient Greeks and Romans,the world ended in an abyss, the “Antipodes,” after the Prasum Promentoryin Zimbabwe. However, the ancient Israelites, the Himyarite Arabs,Phoenicians, and Nabbataean Arabs knew that this was not the final abyss,but the dzimba dza mabwe, possibly the mines of King Solomon, or theBantu Empire of Monomotapa (Mwene Muntapa).My point is that, geographically, Ptolmey gave us all the known placesand no one can say that this is rubbish. China, Indonesia, Lapland, Britain,Scandinavia were all known. It was not easy to go to the ends of the earth,8but it was possible. In his epistles, St. Paul speaks of being obliged to spreadthe gospel or he will be lost. In Greek, these words, “to the ends of the earth”are very precise, they are in no sense allegorical and the apostles would haveunderstood this literally. The ancient geographers used this phrase as a precisegeographical definition.That the apostles accomplished this to some degree is borne out by theChurch historian Tertullian, who wrote in 170 A.D.: “We have deacons, wehave priests and we have churches, to the ends of the earth.” 1 Then hedescribes the places: the Sarmatians, Sub-Saharan Africa, the British Isles,and the Scythians. The territory of the Sarmatians, for instance, stretchedfrom the Caspian Sea to Lake Baikal; and from Mongolia to Siberia.THE CROSS OF THE NORTHRTE: How did you begin to write about St. Andrew in particular?GEORGE: If you had told me a year ago that I would be writing a book on St.Andrew, I would have said you were crazy. I never imagined that I would dosuch a thing. But when I had some serious problems, I went to New ValaamoMonastery in Finland where I was given the extremely kind hospitality ofthe monks and Igumen Sergei. It was like entering the doors of paradise.You can imagine; it was cold, quiet, silent, and the only things I had to facewere God, nature, and myself.At the time I wanted to write a book about the Kalash, the descendants ofAlexander the Great on the northwest border of Pakistan, who are stillpagan. Their religion is still very connected with ancient Greek paganism,and I feel an urgency to preserve their mythology and legends because thisis an endangered culture and there are only two thousand of them left.I had planned to begin this work in Finland, but I understood that themonastery was not exactly a proper place to write about pagans… so insteadI began writing about the Karelian Orthodox saints. I was impressed thatmany Greek monks from Mt. Athos had gone to Karelia and that Karelianmonks had gone to Mt. Athos and later returned to the Russian north – likeSt. Arseny of Konevits. One of our Greeks who went to Karelia was MonkEliezar, and we have had a continual stream of Greek monks, hermits and1Tertullian, An Answer to the Jews, Chapter. 7, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 3, p. 157-8. T&T Clark, translatedby S. Thelwall.9

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 4 (#19)ascetics in Karelia. Tradition says of Sts. Sergius and Herman, the foundersof Valaam Monastery in Russia, that one was a Greek from Mt. Athos andthe other a local Karelian. (Others say they were both Greeks from Kiev, anda third version holds that one was Greek and the other a pagan priest, butthe fact remains that in each variant they had Greek influence and ideas.)I am fascinated by what I call “The Cross of the North.” This is a geographicalcross that you can trace on a map. The vertical bar links the farnorth of Russia to Greek Orthodoxy in the south. The crossbar connectsFinnish, Russian and American Orthodoxy, from Sts. Sergius and Hermanof Valaam, through the deserts of the “Northern Thebaid” to St. Herman ofAlaska on Spruce Island.I was thrilled to be at Valaamo, receiving the tradition of ValaamMonastery and writing about the saints. The abbot helped us very much. Mywife is Ukrainian, a Russian national, and we were given access to themonastery archives and allowed to copy anything we liked. This was a verygreat gift of God and of Valaamo. We translated from many books and thencame back to Greece to begin writing. Even then I knew that I must beginby writing the life of St. Andrew the Apostle.RTE: The tradition that St. Andrew was in Karelia is still held today?GEORGE: Yes, by the monks of Old Valaam Monastery in Russia, somemonks of New Valaamo in Finland, and by Finnish and Russian Kareliansas well. St. Andrew is at the center of the icon, “Synaxis of All the Saints ofValaam” at New Valaamo Monastery.As I began to write, I found myself coming across more and more scatteredinformation about St. Andrew from all over the world. Finally, myGreek editor, Sophia Oriphanidou, said, “Wait on the lives of the saints ofKarelia, write first about St. Andrew himself.” I didn’t feel right working ona book about an apostle, but I told myself, “Yes, I’m a very bad guy, but ithappens that I have to write this book, so I will.” It was an inner obligationthat I knew I couldn’t avoid. I’m not worthy to write about him, but I hadto, and I ask everyone to forgive me.Once I began, many sources came to me and people came forward to help,from northern Russia, central Asia, eastern Europe, Ethiopia – texts andoral traditions, even from the Kalash people of Pakistan, whom I mentionedearlier. Their texts speak of the presence of a messenger from God by thename of Indrein, and I cite this tradition in my book in their local language,10Mosaic, St. Andrew with staff and wheat, Patras Cathedral.

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 4 (#19)the astonishing missionary journeys of the apostle andrewbecause in the old Romanian, St. Andrew is called Indrean. I collectedmany local traditions, everything I could find. At first it was very difficult,but then things began coming.RTE: You said earlier that it was as if they were being put in your way.GEORGE: Yes, but at the beginning it was chaos, just scattered informationfrom around the world. Also, I knew that I didn’t want to make traditionsout of legends. I just wanted to follow the sources and see where they led; itwas like putting a huge puzzle together.I have already covered about a thousand pages and I quote almost fiftylanguages and dialects. The book is in Greek, of course, and I’m calling it,“He Raised the Cross on the Ice.”RTE: What languages did you work in?GEORGE: The oral traditions and texts referring to St Andrew are in ancientGreek, modern Greek, Pontian and Calabrian Greek, Georgian, Abhazian,Slavonic, Serbian, Russian, Ukrainian, Romanian, Kalasha, Baganda,Kurdish, Ethiopian Geez, Ethiopian Amharic, Coptic, Arabic, AramaicSyrian, Turkish, Turcik of Central Asia, Iranian, Bulgarian, old English,English, German, Italian, Latin, Albanian, Finnish, Karelian, Armenian,and many dialects.I also had to deal with many languages, scripts and dialects, living andextinct, that didn’t deal directly with St. Andrew, because I had to read thesources concerning the world in which he lived. These were in Hebrew,Samaritan, Bantu, Kushitic, Teso, San, Tokharian, Sanskrit, Chinese,Mongolian, Korean, Amazigh-Berberic, Gothic, Gaelic, Saami-Lappish,Swedish, Norwegian, Polish, Tadjik, Sogdian, and so on. Of course, I wasn’table to learn all these languages, but I was fortunate enough to find nativespeakers and scholars around the world to help me with these sources. Andhere I have to thank my wife and spiritual sister Olga, because her help withthe Slavic sources was fundamental for my research.Megas Farantos, the well-known professor of dogmatic theology in Greeceand Germany, who represents the Ecumenical Patriarchate and the GreekChurch in dialogue with the Roman Catholics and other religions, was a greathelp to me. He trusts my work and academically supports me. He told me,“Don’t critique the traditions, this is not your job. Accept them or don’t acceptthem, but don’t critique them.” Secondly, he said, “Adopt a principle of work-ing. They can fight your interpretation, but not your principle.”So, I took as a principle the premise that, “I accept all evidence as possible,whether it is a writing of the Holy Fathers, an oral tradition from Uzbekistan,a Coptic text from Ethiopia, a simple dream, or the archeological excavationsof a Chinese scholar.” It is impossible from our time to absolutely say that acertain isolated tradition is true or false. My idea was to work from anotherdirection by putting down all the scattered sources to see if the different traditionsof St. Andrew’s journeys fit together geographically and time-wise. Iwanted to see if they were even possible. Then, once I exposed the contradictions,perhaps I could find the actual routes of St. Andrew’s journeys.The question was if, by setting the various traditions side-by-side, I couldtrace St. Andrew’s travels with any probability. Our strongest evidence,and what we always hoped for, was early written commentary about the apostle’svisit to an area along with a separate,verified oral tradition from thesame place that has been passed downuntil now. As I went on, I discovered thatin time and geography the Kazakhstanitradition fit the Sogdiana tradition(modern Uzbekistan), the Sogdiana traditionfit into the Parthian traditionEntrance to St. Andrew’s cave, Romania.(Persia) and the Parthian tradition fitthe Syriac tradition. It was like a train, one car after another, until I had onlytwenty years missing from St. Andrew’s return to the Black Sea from Valaamountil he went to Sinope – and from there to Patras in Achaia, to his martyrdom.RTE: Were you able to resolve those twenty years?GEORGE: Yes, I found a local Romanian tradition that St. Andrew lived twentyyears in a cave in Romania, in Dervent, and during this time he traveledthrough what is now Romania, Bulgaria and Moldavia. But the most incrediblething was that, according to the early Romanian traditions, the years hewas there was the exact period I was missing from the other traditions.The most important thing is that these puzzle pieces – the separate localtraditions of Bulgaria, Romania, Ethiopia, of the Aramaic people, theSyrians, the Copts, even the Greek and Roman church traditions all fittogether, but you have to follow them step by step to recreate his life.Finally, I had only one piece that I couldn’t fit, even as a possibility: the1213

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 4 (#19)the astonishing missionary journeys of the apostle andrewDeclaration of Arbroath, the fourteenth-century Scottish declaration ofindependence from England which says that the Scots were taught theChristian faith by St. Andrew himself. Historians dismiss this, but I have topoint out that his presence there was not physically impossible.RTE: And who signed this declaration?GEORGE: The nobles of the Scottish nation, in 1320. 2 The Arbroath traditionis interesting because there is no other written claim of St. Andrew in anyplace in Scotland, although there are a few scatteredlegends that say he was in Scotland generally. Themost common tradition says that St. Rule (orRegulus), who was possibly a Greek monk fromPatras, brought some relics of St. Andrew from Patrasto St. Andrew’s in Scotland in the fourth century. St.Andrew is the patron saint of Scotland, and that therelics were there is undisputed. They disappearedfrom the cathedral only during the CalvinistReformation destruction. There is a second traditionSt. Regulus’ towerin Scotland.that says they were brought by an eighth-centuryabbot, but according to the nobles of the Scottishnation, St. Andrew was actually there, and I wanted to finish my book bysimply seeing whether this was possible or not.For a long time, it didn’t seem that there were any traveled routes connectingthis place in Scotland to other places St. Andrew is known to havebeen, until I learned of a group of Lapps called “the Seal People.” Thesewere seal fishermen who lived on the Baltic coast in an area St. Andrew isknown to have been. They traded by sea from Scandinavia to the Hebrides,the Orkney and Shetland Islands, and to northern Scotland – a place nowcalled St. Andrew’s, where the relics lay for centuries.In the first century, Rome had already captured southern Britain, and theScots and Picts further north were very hard-pressed. When trade in the south2From the Declaration of Arbroath, 1320: “Most Holy Father and Lord, we know and from the chroniclesand books of the ancients we find that among other famous nations our own, the Scots, has been graced withwidespread renown...The high qualities and deserts of these people, were they no otherwise manifest, gainglory enough from this: that the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, our Lord Jesus Christ, after His Passionand Resurrection, called them, even though settled in the uttermost parts of the earth, almost the first to Hismost holy faith. Nor would He have them confirmed in that faith by merely anyone but by the first of HisApostles – by calling, though second or third in rank – the most gentle Saint Andrew, the Blessed Peter’sbrother, and desire him to keep them under his protection as their patron forever.”was closed to them, they began to use this old Celtic-Lapp route over Norway,Denmark and Sweden. The ancient Greeks had already mapped this road, andPithias of Marseilles went to these places about 330 B.C., and probably toIceland and Greenland as well. I can’t say that St. Andrew traveled with theLapps, of course, but this route did exist, and if he did go to Scotland it wouldhave to have been after his visit to the Baltic Sea and before Romania.Except for this remote chance, I didn’t see how he could have gotten toScotland until I found something else that made it very possible. According toancient Greek writers there was an inland route for Greek merchants from theBaltic Sea. From the Greek Crimea they traveled up the Russian rivers, theDnepr, Dvina etc. to what is now St. Petersburg (as St. Andrew himself didaccording to Russian tradition). Then toavoid the hard Russian winter, they didn’treturn to Greece the same way but sailedthe Baltic, where they bought amber, andthen to Scotland where they made their waydown the coast to Cornwall trading for tin.From Cornwall, they traveled down theIberian Peninsula to Gibraltar, then pastthe (then) Greek cities of Marseilles, Nice,Antibes and the area of Monaco, and thento Rome, Sicily, and Greece.Declaration of Arbroath.This is why the ancient Slavic sourcesrecount that St. Andrew left Russia for Rome. In fact, I don’t believe he evergot to Rome, because if he had this would surely have been recounted in theLatin tradition. For reasons that I go into in my book, I think that hereturned to the Germanic lands where the Romans had created a new roadconnecting the Baltic with the Danube. From the Danube he could havesailed down to Dobrogea in Romania.RTE: Would it also have been possible that some of the tribes he encounteredin eastern Europe might have migrated to, or traded in, Scotland and thatthis was the origin of the tradition?GEORGE: Yes, there are some theories that the Scot aristocracy were descendantsof the Verangian Russ or the Scythians, but I’m doubtful about this. Inthe Declaration of Arbroath the nobles are talking about St. Andrew being inScotland. That was their statement.1617

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 4 (#19)the astonishing missionary journeys of the apostle andrewRTE: How do modern Scottish Christians see this?GEORGE: They believe that the Arbroath tradition was based on St. Regulus’bringing the relics from Patras in the fourth century (or an abbot in theeighth), but I’m still open to the possibility that there is something older atwork. The Declaration of Abroath is very important and from a time whenpeople were careful of oral tradition. I would be surprised if they so quicklymixed up the tradition of his presence with that of his relics.Unfortunately, there is no collaborating evidence that he was there, so Ican’t say it was even probable, just possible.RTE: How could he have traveled so freely among these vastly different peoples?GEORGE: He was a humble, simple man, and for a simple man nothing isimpossible. If he had been an arrogant European explorer he would neverhave trusted these people, he would have found his own way like Pitheas,who made a boat and sailed to Greenland from Marseilles. Although herespected their knowledge, Pitheas didn’t fully trust the locals because hewas a Greek and they were barbarians.You see, my book is a cultural tapestry. It includes the Scythians, theancient Scots, early Africa. It is about St. Andrew, but it is also about the worldhe moved in: the Slavs, the Pharisees, Epicureans, Stoics, the North Africans,the Lapp nomads, the Han Dynasty in China, the Mongols and the Turks. Myeditor told me, “Don’t just write the life of St. Andrew, describe the places hewent and the people he would have met.” When I began writing about theseplaces, I found that I had to depict the whole era – how Siberia and Finnish-Russian Karelia are connected to central Asia, Africa and Scotland – so that areader can understand what the world was like at that time.THE FIRST MISSIONARY JOURNEY:Judea to Constantinople, Pontus, and the CaucausesRTE: Can you trace St. Andrew’s routes for us?GEORGE: Yes, according to local tradition, St. Andrew first preached inJudea to the Samaritans and in Gaza, which at the time of Christ was inhab-ited by Greek Philistines. If you compare the Masoretic text to theSeptuagint, the word “Philistine” is translated as “Greek.” This is clear andit is acknowledged by historians.After Gaza, he went to Lydda in Palestine, where St. George would later bemartyred, to Antioch, and then to Ankara and Edessa, today’s Urfa inTurkey, which was an important center for the first Christians. Abgar, Kingof Edessa, became a Christian and this is where the icon of the Lord, “Made-Without-Hands” is from. According to the sources, this may have been thefirst Christian kingdom on earth, perhaps as early as 35 or 36 A.D. just a fewyears after the Crucifixion. After Edessa, some traditions say that St.Andrew went to the Greek town of Byzantium (later Constantinople) in 36A.D. and appointed the first bishop, St. Stachys, 3 who was one of the seventydisciples of the Lord. Then he preached in Bythinia, Cappadocia andGalatia, up through Greek Pontus, which today is northern Turkey. Thentraditions say he turned to Georgia, Armenia and the Caucuses. This was thefirst trip, after which he returned to Jerusalem.THE SECOND MISSIONARY JOURNEY:Jerusalem to Central AsiaThe second trip was quite different. He followed the same route fromJerusalem, but after Antioch he took a ship to Ephesus to meet St. John. Onthe way he touched on Cyprus for a few days, at the Cape of St. Andrew. I’mnot sure if he met any Cypriotes, it was only a stopping point for the ship.According to Cypriot tradition, because the crew and passengers neededfresh water and this was a desert place, he went ashore and prayed untilwater poured forth from a rock.After Ephesus, he went to Antioch, then to Nicea where he stayed for sometime. From there he went to Pontus again, and to Georgia. From Georgia,several traditions say that he passed down to Parthia (Persia) throughKurdistan, and then further to the Cynocefaloi in the desert of Gedrozia(now Balochistan) near the coast and the present Pakistan-Iranian border.RTE: Who were the Cynocefaloi?3St. Stachys, first bishop of Byzantium (later Constantinople), feast day October 31.2021

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 4 (#19)the astonishing missionary journeys of the apostle andrewGEORGE: This is an extremely interesting subject as these people are mentionedin many early texts. Cynocefaloi translates literally as “the dog-headpeople.” They are also spoken of in the Life of Saint Makarios, which locatesthe tribe in a desert far beyond Syria. Tzetzis, a Byzantine historical commentator,refers to them as inhabitants of India, of which modern Pakistanwould have been a part. In the Greek Life of St. Christopher (who somespeculate came from this area), it is said that that he came to the Romanworld passing through the Persian desert, and Marco Polo mentions themas inhabitants of the Indian Ocean. So they could be the same primitivetribes that Alexander the Greek found on his way to the sea coast of theGedrosian Desert (modern Makran in Pakistan).Our main source for the Cynocefaloi is Ktesias (5th century B.C.), a wellknownancient geographer, pharmacist and historian from Knidos, whosewritings were taken seriously by Byzantine Church fathers, for example byPatriarch Photius the Great (see his Myriobiblos). In Ktesias’ book“Indica,” which St. Photius himself used, there is a whole text dedicated tothe Cynocefaloi, “an Indian tribe.” These ancient folk tales (Ethiopian,Slavic, Persian, Arabic, Armenian, Greek etc.) all refer to the dramatic contactof Alexander the Great and the Cynocefaloi.RTE: This also explains why I’ve seen many old Greek icons of St. Christopherwith a dog’s head. At first I was shocked, it seemed like blasphemy and Iwondered what on earth the Greeks were thinking. No one was able toexplain it, except that St. Christopher’s life from the Menaion says that hewas so tremendously ferocious-looking that when Emperor Decius saw him,he fell off his throne from fright. Do you think there was a connection?GEORGE: Exactly. The sources say that St. Christopher came across thePersian Desert. These people lived on the other side of the desert.I have my own theory, although this explanation is not in the old texts thatcite these people, because the sources assume the reader is already familiarwith the place names and locations. Several sources say that St. Andrew wasin this northeast region of Pakistan, and we know that there were peoples inthis area who slashed their cheeks from mouth to ear, so that all the teethshowed. Marco Polo saw this tribe, whom he called the Cynocefaloi. He saidthat they looked like mastiffs; that is, they didn’t have elongated heads likeGerman shepherds with the long nose, but like mastiffs. You can imagine –a mastiff has a round, flat face shaped more like that of a human. They cutthe cheeks, filed the teeth, cropped the ears, and reshaped the skulls of theirbabies so that they would grow into a very ferocious aspect. All of this was toprotect themselves from the constant invasions of the area.If you go to some sub-Saharan tribes today along the Nile in Rwanda, oralong the Amazon, or in New Guinea, the faces of some tribal peoples canfrighten you terribly. They systematically mold their faces into somethingferocious – the shape of the head, cheeks, teeth…. These people were ferociousin looks, but not ferocious in their ways. They were simply a primitivepeople who needed to protect themselvesAccording to the Syriac text, when St. Andrew went to these people theywere transformed into normal human beings. In my opinion this means thatafter their baptism they simply stopped doing these things. In Deuteronomyit is forbidden to scar or mutilate the face, so this would have been part ofthe apostolic heritage that St. Andrew taught to this people.The Syriac sources say that when St. Andrew first saw them he was horrified.He panicked and fled back to the shore to jump into the boat, but as hereached the shore he smelled incense and realized that the Lord Himself hadguided the boat there. He even questioned God at first, “Why did you bringme to this place?” (He is a man you know. St. Andrew is a man like all of us,but he is special.) But when the people came to him, they were kind, theygave him hospitality. They were just fine primitive people, as are manytribes in the Amazon today, even those who fight each other.We hear of this nowadays from people who have come into contact with“barbarian” tribes with strange customs, according to our cultures. Becausethey accept these people, they in turn are accepted by them. In Papua, NewGuinea, in the Amazon, in the jungles of Africa, these people often embracewesterners who settle and live with them in a matter we can hardly imagine,with real love and tenderness. This happened to the apostles as well. Thereal problem for the apostles was when they were in the “civilized” world,not amongst primitive peoples.So, from this place some sources say that St. Andrew went back throughPakistan and Afghanistan on the Silk Road to Sogdiana, now Samarkandand Bokhara in Uzbekistan, and not far from the border of western China –“Soh-Yok” in Chinese, which means “the ancient provinces.”We ask now how he could have possibly gone to Sogdiana, but since archeologistsand historians have found the route of the Silk Road, it is obviousthat it was very accessible. All of the ancient biographers of his life say that2425

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 4 (#19)he was in central Asia, but they don’t speak of any adventures in thoseplaces, so this means that either the texts were destroyed or nothing of notehappened. Usually we only write down the difficult or the very miraculous,so if his visits were peaceful, perhaps the accounts didn’t survive.RTE: Is Sogdiana anywhere near the Chinese region where they recentlyfound first-century Christian inscriptions and tombs?GEORGE: No, those tombs are at the other end of China, but there was possiblya Chinese disciple of St. Thaddeus of the Seventy, whose name is St.Aggai in the Syriac tradition. This Aggai is said to have preached in Parthia,in Sogdiana, and in central Asia: Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iranand India. He found the tomb of St. Thomas in southern India, and aftervenerating the fragrant relics of St. Thomas, he died. His name in theChinese sources may have been Wang-Hai – the important thing here isthat according to the sources he was a silk producer and we know that noone could be a silk producer at that time unless he was Chinese. So, perhapsSt. Aggai was the first Chinese disciple of an apostle of Christ. These newlydiscoveredChristian tombs and monuments date from about 75 A.D., sothese really were apostolic times.There are also traditions from the Yellow Sea, near Shanghai, of St.Thomas having been in China. This is not physically impossible because thearea where modern-day Kazakhstan borders Mongolia and China was thecradle of the Huns, the eastern Scythians, and the Sacas. Gundophorus, theking of India who met St. Thomas, was a Sacan king, and the Sacan empirewas vast, stretching from Siberia to China and India. People knew theseroutes, they were well-traveled.The Proto-Bulgarians who followed the Huns even had a church dedicatedto St. Andrew, although after later invasions they had to be re-Christianized. Also we have the Hephtalit Huns, a barbaric Turcik tribe whowere the first Christian nation in central Asia (third-fourth century).It is very important to understand that there are three separate traditionsof St. Andrew’s missionary journeys to western China, eastern-central Asia,and Kalbin (Khalbinski Hrebet, a mountainous area on the borders of present-dayKazakhstan, Mongolia, and Russia.) One of these traditions is fromKazakhstan, another is Syriac, and the third is from the Bulgars of theRussian steppes, who migrated through Greece and eventually settled inItaly, filling their villages with churches dedicated to St. Andrew.26Synaxis of All Saints of Karelia, St. Andrew in front.

the astonishing missionary journeys of the apostle andrewAccording to Epiphanius, 4 a ninth-century monk historian ofConstantinople, St. Andrew also went north of China, to the land of theScythian Massagetae and Masakas (the cradle of the Bulgarians and Turksat the junction of present day Mongolia, Kazakhstan and Altai), the Proto-Bulgarian tribes, the Ungric and Trocharians, and also to the mountains ofKalbin in Altai, Siberia.The route from Sogdiana to the land of the Massagetae was a route thatRomans, Jews, and Greeks didn’t use. It was a road that the nomadic tribesused when they collected payments from the Chinese for protecting the SilkRoad. Regional traditions say that St. Andrew was there, and he seems tohave been accepted by these nomads, who were considered to be some of themost savage people of that time. I don’t think he was treated badly, becausethere are no records of misadventures in these places. This was easternScythia, not western Scythia which was Ukraine and Russia, and theChinese were very afraid of the eastern Scythians. The Trocharians wholived here were Nordic, white people with blue eyes, blond hair and redbeards who were living in China and in Mongolia.RTE: A decade ago I saw people like that a little further north near theMongolian border in Altai, Siberia. Along with the Altai who have obviousMongol roots, they are a second native ethnic group. The Russians call them“Turks,” although they know they aren’t from Turkey, to differentiate themfrom the Mongolians and Chinese.GEORGE: Yes, exactly. These people moved up into Altai through Mongolia.They were from below Kalbin, in northern Asia.RTE: I was recently told by a woman from the Urals that there is a widespreadSiberian tradition that St. Andrew preached as far north as the present-dayvillage of Kazanskoe in the Russian Urals, and prophesied that therewould be widespread Christianity there someday. The village has a churchdedicated to him.4Hieromonk Epiphanius: Ninth century historian and priestmonk of Moni Kallistraton in Constantinople, whowrote a life of Saint Andrew: “Epiphanii Monachi et Presbyteri – de Vita et Actibus et Morte Sancti, et PlaneLaudandi, et Primi Vocati Inter Apostolos Andrae” [in P.G. Migne, vol. 120]. He is also the author of the oldestextant Life of the Theotokos (P.G. Migne, vol. 120.). Epiphanius deeply venerated St. Andrew and tried torecreate his journeys based on ancient sources. Traveling extensively in the areas St. Andrew was known tohave been, he gathered many local traditions and texts connected with the apostle’s missionary journeys. It wasa magnificent work for his era. Some of his passages concerning the martyrdom of St. Andrew are identical withthe apocryphal “Acts of Andrew,” and it is very likely that he also used Leucius Charinus’ text.29

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 4 (#19)the astonishing missionary journeys of the apostle andrewGEORGE: Yes, and there are many other Russian traditions about his visitingAltai, Novgorod, Karelia, and Kiev.St. Andrew returned from Altai, and, still following the footsteps of localtraditions, he would have taken a different route to the Caspian Sea throughthe steppes where, according to many early traditions and texts, hepreached to the Alans. From there he went to Kurdistan, where he was nearlymartyred. He escaped, however, and returned to Jerusalem.THE THIRD MISSIONARY JOURNEY:Coptic Ethiopian TraditionsHis third missionary journey, if we accept the traditions, began after thefirst apostolic synod in 49 A.D. This is the only point time-wise when hepossibly could have gone to Africa. The sources for the African stories areEthiopian Coptic traditions, and an apocryphal Greek source, of which wehave a revised, edited Latin version by St. Gregory of Tours. If he did go toAfrica, it was for a special reason, because this was not the place he originallyhad been sent to preach. He was to preach in Bythinia, to the Greeksand to the eastern Scythians.RTE: By “sent to preach” do you mean the tradition that the apostles pickedlots as to where they would go?GEORGE: Yes, but I think it was not only by picking lots that they decided.They organized a plan, they didn’t all just set out into the wilderness.Now these Coptic traditions say that he made a trip to the Berber (meaning“Barbarian”) lands, but we don’t know exactly where this was because theBerbers were living from the Siwa Oasis in Egypt to Morocco, Mauritania,Mali and Niger, and were the ancestors of the present-day Kabyls (theTuraregs) in Algeria. Perhaps he simply went to a place in modern-day Egypt.From there, these sources say that he went to the land of the Anthropofagi,a very definite place in the area of the Great Lakes on the borders of Tanzania,Uganda, Rwanda and Congo. Because, according to the ancient text, there wasa volcano there, I believe that this was Lake Kioga, but this is my own opinion.Then, the legends say, he made his way to the abyss near Zimbabwe. Accordingto research of the last century, the Himyarite Arabs were travelling at that timefrom Yemen to Mozambique to Zimbabwe, the ancient Ofir, where Hiram sup-posedly took the gold for King Solomon, so possibly the Jews, Phonecians, andArabs knew this road, but not the Greeks or the Romans.RTE: Who were the Anthropofagi?GEORGE: According to the Coptic “Acts of St. Andrew and St. Matthias(Matthew),” an extremely colorful and fantastic apocryphal story, on histhird missionary journey St. Andrew was commanded, either from heavenor by the apostles, to go and help St. Matthew because he had been capturedby the Anthropofagi, who were man-eaters, cannibals.RTE: These traditions say that St. Matthew was captured by cannibals andSt. Andrew was sent to rescue him?!GEORGE: Yes, although some traditions say that it was St. Matthias, themajority of the sources think it was St. Matthew because Matthias went toGeorgia, while St. Matthew went to Alexandria and Ethiopia. The Copticsources are definite on this.Some people have suggested that this “land of the man-eaters” referred toin many ancient texts, was really in Pontus, in Sinope (today’s northernTurkey), but this is not possible. Sinope and Pontus were classical Greece.The only thing they can base this on is that Pausanias, a second-century A.D.geographer, came upon some isolated Greek inns where they sold dried orpreserved bits of human organs as medicinal remedies, but this was never asocial way of being, even in out of the way places.RTE: Yes, but how much credence can we put in these apocryphal texts?GEORGE: As I said, from our vantage we can’t look back in history and determineif something apocryphal was literally true, was based on somethingtrue that was elaborated on, or is a complete fantasy. There were differentopinions among the Fathers. I believe St. Andrew could have been in Africa,and I substantiate this in my book, but remember, my primary task was totake every tradition, without judging the source, and try to discover if hecould have physically traveled there, and, if so, how it fits time-wise and geographicallywith his other journeys. Admittedly, some of these can seem likewild tales to western readers.There are many early traditions and texts, and not only Orthodox texts.Even those from heretical traditions like the monophysites may contain cor-3031

the astonishing missionary journeys of the apostle andrewrect historical details. They include propaganda for their teachings that aren’tright, but these can be revised or ignored. This is why St. Gregory of Tours,writing in the sixth century, and Hieromonk Epiphanius a monk-historian inMoni Kallistraton in Constantinople in the fifth, both use the text of LeuciusCharinus, who was somewhat of a Manichean. St. Gregory recounts the travelsof St. Andrew in his “Acts of Andrew,” and Epiphanius in PatrologiaGreca. They only corrected the doctrinal errors, and from this we can see thatmany of these early traditions were considered valid even by saints.RTE: Can you explain how you worked with these texts?GEORGE: It is difficult, as I spend sixty pages of my book tracing the sourcesof the African journey, but I will try to give you a synopsis. There are severalminor sources for this tradition and two major ones: the Greek text I justmentioned of the “Acts of Andrew,” which may have been by LeuciusCharinus, (later cleansed of heresy by St. Gregory of Tours in a Latin version)and the “Acts of Andrew and Matthias (Matthew)” by a Coptic source.The original Greek “Acts of Andrew” was condemned by Pope Gelasius inthe Decretum Gelasianum De Libris Recipiendis Et Non Recipiendis, whichwas not a synodal decree, but a local condemnation of some apocryphal textsas a reaction to the falsification of holy tradition that existed in the third andfourth century amongst heretics. This was before the Chalcedonian Council.The Decretum, although respected by Orthodox believers has never been adogma per se, but it is a serious and enlightened guide, which everyoneshould consider as a valuable protection against heresy.Although it condemns “the Acts in the name of the Apostle Andrew,” and“the Gospels in the name of Andrew,” (which were possibly the work of aManichean gnostic, Leucius Charinus), it does not condemn the Coptic “Actsof Andrew and Matthias (or Matthew) in the Land of the Anthropofagi” northe “Acts of Peter and Andrew” which were of Coptic origin. One might objectthat the Coptic texts are also forbidden under the term, “the Acts in the nameof the apostle Andrew” but this reasoning doesn’t match the other cases inthe Decretum where, when we have condemned texts listed as “the acts” oftwo people, they are described by both names (e.g. “the book which is calledthe ‘Acts of Thecla and Paul,’” “the book which is called ‘The Repentance ofJamne and Mambre,’” “the Passion of Cyricus and Julitta”).The Decretum condemns “all the books which Leucius, the disciple of thedevil, made…” but no one insists that the “Acts of Andrew and Matthias (orSt. Andrew’s Spring, Patras.33

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 4 (#19)Matthew) in the land of the Anthropofagai” and the “Acts of Peter andAndrew” are the work of Leucius Charinus. On the contrary, most scholarsaccept that these texts are the work of an unknown Coptic monk (with thenational, not the religious meaning of Coptic, because this was the pre-Chalcedonian period). This author could have been a gnostic heretic orequally, he could have been an Orthodox ascetic of the desert. We don’thave enough evidence to support either view.Both the great church historian Eusebius of Caesarea and St. Epiphaniusof Salamis 5 also condemned the “Acts of Andrew,” but not “The Acts ofAndrew and Matthias (Matthew) in the Land of Anthropofagi” and the “Actsof Peter and Andrew.” As far as we know, they didn’t even refer to these texts.The reason I am even considering material that was originally from thiscondemned text is that in the sixth century St. Gregory of Tours corrected theheretical points in “The Acts of Andrew” by Charinus, publishing a revisedtext with the name “Vita and Patio” (Life and Passion of Saint Andrew,)”which has been generally approved by the Holy Orthodox Church (parts of itappearing in hymns and services, and in the Synaxarion) as a basis for theLife of Saint Andrew. In this revision, St. Gregory of Tours accepts thatApostle Andrew preached to the Anthropofagai in Africa before his trip toAchaia-Greece. He obviously believed this. His version has never been condemnedby the Church, and I use it as one of my possible sources.Neither have the Catholic or Orthodox Churches condemned the Latin“Golden Legend” of Voragine or the Anglo-Saxon epic poem “Andreas”(probably of Cynewolf) in which the old story of “The Acts of Andrew andMatthias (or Matthew) in the land of Andropofagi” re-appears in both apious (Voragine), and folkloric (Andreas) form. This does not mean thatthey are accepted as historical fact, it just means that they do not containheresy. Western scholars view them as legends.In the Decretum of Pope Gelasius, there are other texts condemned aswell: “the book which is called ‘The Assumption of Holy Mary,’” “the bookwhich is called the ‘Lots of the Apostles’,” “The Passion of Cyricus andJulitta,” and so on. If you read these, you find that in many points they arealmost identical to the holy and sacred tradition of our Orthodox Churchminus the heresies. (Compare these texts and the Orthodox GreatSynaxarion). Even the names “Joachim and Anna,” the holy parents of the5St. Epiphanius of Salamis, Cyprus (feast day, May 12): Condemned “The Acts of Andrew” and declared inhis Panarion that, amongst other heretics, the Encratites, the Apostolici, and the Origenists used that text.34Icon of St. Andrew, Chapel of St. Andrew, Serbian Palace, Belgrade.

the astonishing missionary journeys of the apostle andrewMother of God, are only found in apocryphal texts which have survived fromthis early era. This does not mean that we can consider these sources ascompletely true or valuable in themselves. Rather, we accept that some ofwhat is written in them can also exist in our holy Orthodox tradition. Wecannot declare that everything in them is wrong (such as the dormition ofthe Mother of God, when the Lord took her body and soul to heaven, themartyrdom of Apostle Andrew in Patras, the martyrdoms of Cyricus andJulitta, the tradition that the apostles “drew lots”). In fact, these condemnedsources may have some true historical facts mixed with legends and fairytales,and poisoned by heretical nonsense. The nonsense is what PopeGelasius condemned and what St. Gregory cleaned up. Another example ofthis borrowing is that Orthodox writers and church fathers have generallyaccepted the texts of Tertullian as a valuable historical source, although hisdoctrinal errors were also condemned by the Decretum.There are other sources of this tradition of St. Andrew in Africa as well:the hymnograpy of some Pre-Chalcedonian churches (e.g. Ethiopians andCopts) and the synaxarion of the Armenians which says that “Andrewpreached among the cannibals, or in the land of Barbarians (Enivarvaros),a place identical to Azania according Claudius Ptolemy. As Orthodox, wecannot ignore this, because it is very likely that these sources come from theancient period of the unity of the Churches. If not heretical, they could be anOrthodox tradition, although this has not yet been confirmed.There are also non-Christian historical sources saying the same thing –Arab Islamic texts that say that the Holy Apostle Andrew preached in “theland of the cannibals, that was a land of the blacks.” These sources areimportant because they are not Christian, they come from the early traditionsand memories of the Arabic peoples.Finally we have to remember that not every apocryphon is a forgery or a legend.Orthodox theologians and fathers have taught us to classify as an apocryphonthose ancient Christian documents of unknown or unreliable validity.Some are heretical, some are forgeries, others are fantasies and romances.Some have interesting information that may even seem familiar as they incorporatereal pre-existing sources (which we no longer have copies of) that arethe basis of some of our Orthodox tradition, hymnography, and iconography.Not all apocryphal texts have been condemned by the Church. Of thosethat haven’t been condemned, our Christians fathers and theologians werefree to express their own opinions. In Orthodox tradition, no human opin-Georgian St. Andrew.37

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 4 (#19)the astonishing missionary journeys of the apostle andrewion is considered infallible. Only our beloved Jesus Christ is infallible, andonly the Ecumenical Councils declared unmistakable truths.RTE: Thank you, that was very thorough, and you’ve obviously worked hardto get to the bottom of these sources. Can we go on now to whether St.Andrew could have physically gotten to Africa, and what the traditions sayhappened there?GEORGE: Yes. These traditions say that when St. Andrew left Ethiopia, hewent to the land of the cannibals, and this is not impossible because,according to Ptolemy, the land of the Anthropofagi is some distance afterthe Prasum Promontory. Prasum was somewhere in the coastal areabetween Zimbabwe and Tanzania; African historians locate it on CapeDelgado in modern Mozambique, an ancient place where the Bantu,Indonesians, Kushites, Arabs and Greeks met to trade. It was a known andused route. The land of Anthropofagi is on Ptolemy’s map, and according tomany traditions was a place inhabited by a Bantu tribe.According to ancient Greek sources, the Land of the Anthropofagi is onlyin one possible place: in sub-Saharan Africa, between modern Rwanda andUganda. The Coptic texts also speak of Prasum, Rapta, and “the land wherethe Anthropofagi dwell.” Their description of the land and society of theAnthropofagi is exactly like that of the Bantu people in Tororo, Uganda nearMt. Elgon and Lake Victoria today, about 300 miles from southernEthiopia. We have the exact placement from the text: “between theMountains of the Moon and the land of Barbaria,” and according to theCoptic text, St. Andrew left from the land of Barbaria to the land of theAnthropofagi – we even have the ancient longitudes and latitudes of theseplaces. In the early Greek and Coptic texts the Land of Anthropofagi wascalled Mirmadona, and in the Bantu language today, Emere muntu nameans, “the place where men are food.”At the end of the chronicles, St. Andrew frees St. Matthew and fights withAmayel, the demon-god of these people. The accounts say he fought with thedevil and with demons in many places, but this demon of the land of theAnthropofagi was so powerful that St. Andrew couldn’t fight him alone, so heasked God to send Archangel Michael to help him. Archangel Michael came,they joined forces and Amayel was destroyed. It was such a huge thing thatthe narratives say the people stopped their demonic practices and becameChristian. According to the Coptic “Acts of Sts. Andrew and Matthias,” thenative St. Plato was the first bishop of the land of the Anthropofagi.Strangely enough, today the people of this area call the demonic spirits inthis place Amayebe. Also, as a journalist I know that there is now a verystrange sect, part of a guerilla force in Congo-Zaire that teaches “we musteat people to receive power,” and they are eating human flesh. The name ofthe sect is Amayei-Amayei, almost identical to the old name of the demon.RTE: Is there any living tradition of early Christianity in sub-Saharan Africa?GEORGE: There is no memory of St. Andrew’s presence or of earlyChristianity except in Ethiopia. Until recently, most of sub-Saharan Africahad no written traditions, and at first I was shy to write that even a smallgroup of Bantu fighters have gone back to cannibalism. I thought, “This isgoing to be an insult for the Bantu,” until I realized that many people duringtheir history have been cannibals. One doesn’t have to be embarrassedthat a few Bantu may have turned back to cannibalism; what is important isto understand that the devil himself is fighting the Bantu people becausethey have a special grace of God. It is natural that they would be attacked,that the evil one would corrupt the soul’s longing for the body and blood ofChrist because he wants to keep them away from God – Africans are comingto Christianity by the millions.If you go to Orthodox churches of the Bantu you see a faith that is real andmiraculous. In the Orthodox churches of Africa miracles are part of the everydaylife of the people. They have miracles, but they also readily accept thingswe cannot, like death and disease, with great faith in the will of God. They havemiracles but they are not seeking miracles; that is the Protestant way. Theycan accept the non-miracle as a miracle as well, as God’s Providence.If he indeed went there, St. Andrew could have returned through Ethiopia,then taken the road to Meroe, up the Nile and back to Jerusalem, which wasa well-known route for the Greeks and Arabs.RTE: Are there also traditions of St. Andrew preaching in Ethiopia?GEORGE: Yes, we have local traditions of him in Ethiopia from Coptic manuscriptsand some early traditions of the Church that are not easily understoodnow. For centuries we thought they were just legends, but if you readthe geographical notes, they precisely describe the kingdoms of Ethiopia atthat time, the Meroitic Kingdoms. But these texts describe them in a waythat only Copts can easily understand that this is Ethiopia. For example, in3839

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 4 (#19)the astonishing missionary journeys of the apostle andrewAmerica you won’t always say, “San Francisco.” You may say, “the GoldenGate,” or “the Bay Area,” or in the 1950s you could have said, “Frisco.” InNew York you say, “the City.” It is the same with the term “the sacred mountains.”Every Ethiopian understands that this was Gebel Barkal, but only ifyou are Coptic or Ethiopian do you know this.THE FOURTH MISSIONARY JOURNEY:To the NorthAfter the dormition of the Mother of God, St. Andrew began his final journeyfrom Jerusalem. The trail of tradition says that he went back to Pontus,then to Georgia, to the Caucuses, and to the Sea of Azov in southern Russia.From there he went to Donets, to the Crimea, up the Dnepr River to Kievand to the Scythians of the Ukraine. In the Crimea, where he stayed with theGreeks of Sebastopol and Cherson, we know that there were first-centuryChristian communities organized by St. Andrew himself. From the Crimeaand Kiev in the Ukraine, he would have gone north by river to what is nowMoscow, to Novgorod and then to Lake Ladoga (Valaam). Early writtennarratives no longer exist, but this is a very likely route because the rivertrade from Crimea to northern Russia and Karelia (Lake Ladoga) was commonand relatively easy. Extensive trade from the south is attested to by thegreat number of Roman and Byzantine coins found in Valaam and Karelia.There is also a local tradition that he went to Solovki, and they’ve foundsome very old coins in the Solovki Islands in the White Sea depicting St.Andrew, but we can’t claim he was there solely on the basis of finding coinswith his image. We can’t completely exclude this legend, because it mightbe true, but we have no historical evidence to support it. Conceivably, hecould have traveled from Valaam to Solovki with the Lapp reindeer herderswho moved between Solovki in the summer and the protected shores ofLadoga in the winter.Although we don’t have extremely early texts, the accounts from LakeLadoga and Valaam are not legends, they are tradition. We have an 11thcentury Russian text and we also have the tradition of Valaam itself. FromValaam it appears that he went to the Baltic Sea (then possibly to Scotlandand back to the Baltic, although, as I said earlier, this is not certain). Then,through Poland and Slovakia to Romania, where he settled for twenty years.Finally, he went back to Sebastopol (Crimea) to Sinope, and then to Greeceand to his end in Patras.We can trace his return route on this fourth journey because we have traditionsfor him during this time in Poland, Byelorussia, and even inGermany, although this is doubtful. We also have solid traditions for him inthe lands of the Goths, although before the Goths moved into the Ukrainethey lived in Poland alongside Germanic tribes. Possibly he returnedthrough modern-day Poland and the tribes that later moved up intoGermany carried the tradition of St. Andrew’s passing with them, but wecan’t say that he was in Germany itself.It was on his return south that he settled in Romania for twenty years.During that time he traveled in Moldavia and Bulgaria, on the Danube andalong the coast of the Black Sea, but mostly he was in and around his cavein Dervent, Dobrogea, in southern Romania.St. Andrew’s Romanian cave is still kept as a holy place and RomanianOrthodox have gone there on pilgrimage for almost two thousand years. Wealso know the locations of other caves he lived in: in Pontus near the BlackSea (now Turkey), in Georgia, in Russia, in Romania, and in Loutraki nearCorinth. It is all him, the same man.RTE: Why did he stay in Romania for so long?GEORGE: I didn’t understand this myself at first, but it appears that he feltvery close to the Romanians because they were monotheists. According toFlavius Josephus, their clerics were like Essenes. They were virgins, strictvegetarians who didn’t even eat fleshy vegetables, but only seeds and nutslike ascetics in the desert. Dacian society was very free, the women had agood, equal position there, not like Greco-Roman society, and the Daciansdidn’t keep slaves. In fact, they were unique in the world at that time becausethey didn’t have slaves. According to Romanian traditions and archeologicalfindings, the Dacians became Christian under St. Andrew himself in the firstcentury. It is natural that he would have felt at home with the Dacian clergyand that they would have readily accepted him and converted.The Ethiopic tradition also describes St. Andrew as a very strict vegetarian.This is possible because, although most of the other apostles were married,both he and John the Evangelist were virgins. They had been disciplesof St. John the Baptist and followed his hesychast tradition. They were thefirst monks and ascetics of the Christian world. Even in our Orthodox4243

the astonishing missionary journeys of the apostle andrewhymnography we remember St Andrew as being closely associated with St.John the Baptist. In Orthodoxy we have choices: we have vegetarian hermits,sometimes very strict, living only on bread and water all their lives,and we also have saintly kings who ate pork and beef.He was in Romania for twenty years and I think he loved this land morethan anything after being with Christ. I believe that God allowed it as a consolationbecause he had been on such difficult missionary journeys. We havedescriptions of places where he wasn’t welcome, where he was forced toleave and his despair over this. Things were often very difficult, particularlywhen he was in the Slavic lands where human sacrifice was still practiced.You can imagine, he was tired of living with this, and when he came to theDacians, who had no slaves, where men and women were equal, where Jewsand Greeks were accepted in the same manner, and where there were ascetichermit-priests, you can understand how easily he fit in. He was able toteach, he was happy there. In fact, they thought that the religion he broughtwas not only better than theirs, but was a continuation of their old religion.They saw their native religion as a foreshadowing of Christianity. Twentyyears is a long time, and you can understand why the Romanians remembermore of him than any other tradition.From Romania there are traditions that he went to Cherson in the Crimeaand from there to Sinope, to Macedonia, and preached a bit in Epirus(northern Greece and southern Albania). Although we have references fromearly texts that he preached in Epirus, we don’t have any local traditionsthere. The rest of the sites I’ve quoted are supported by both written textsand oral tradition.ST. ANDREW’S MARTYRDOMFrom Epirus he went to Thessaly, to Lamia, then to Loutraki-Corinth. Hiscave in Loutraki can still be seen. From Corinth he went to Patras where hestayed a year or two, preaching in the Peloponnese. We also have local traditionsthat he went to the small island of Galaxidi, off of the Peloponnese.Finally, he was martyred at Patras at an extremely old age.Something else that I understand from these traditions is that it is impossiblethat St. Andrew was martyred in the times of Nero. We have two Greektraditions; one placing his martyrdom under Nero, and the other underFresco of St. Andrew’s crucifixion, Serbian Palace, Belgrade.45

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 4 (#19)the astonishing missionary journeys of the apostle andrewDomitian or at the beginning of Trajan’s rule in the early second century. Ithink this last one is right. The Romanian tradition says this also, and if youfollow the sources this is what fits.In St. Gregory of Tours’ version of the “Acts of Andrew,” it says that beforehis martyrdom, St. Andrew had a dream in which he saw his brother Peterand John the Evangelist in Paradise. He saw them in Paradise before hismartyrdom. So, this could be an indirect reference to the fact that St. Peterand St. John had already passed on. St. Epiphanius also says this, as doesPseudo-Abdia, the bishop of Babylon (or the historian who wrote in hisname). If this is so, it places his repose after St. John’s.According to the scriptures, St. Andrew would have been younger than hisbrother Peter, because in the scriptures the name of St. Peter comes first,then Andrew. In the texts of civilized societies, the elder is always mentionedfirst, then the younger. But then the question arises, if he wasyounger, why in icons do we depict St. Andrew as much older than Peter, anold man in fact? Even Da Vinci did so in The Last Supper and he had takenhis representation from earlier icons. In Sinai, at St. Catherine’s Monastery,where we have some of the earliest icons in existence, St. Andrew is alsodepicted as old. This is because in iconography we make the icon of the personas we last saw him, and they remembered the older Andrew.Only St. John is not depicted as an old man, because he was blessed bythe Lord to “tarry until I come,” but the other apostles are always portrayedat the age of their death, as is the Lord Himself.ST. ANDREW, THE MAN AND APOSTLERTE: Tell us now about St. Andrew himself. What have you learned about him?GEORGE: If you compare the traditions from Kurdistan, Valaamo, Ethiopiaand Persia, you see the same man. This is very important. You find exactlythe same details about his character. I read these different traditions andsay, “Yes, this is him. This is St. Andrew.” After reading many, many textsfrom all different parts of the world, I have a feeling for what is really him.I feel now if a text is living authority, passed down from people who knewhim or not. He was not a common man, he was strange.RTE: Do you mean strange or unique?GEORGE: Unique, but strange as well. He had a habit of putting up big stoneor iron crosses everywhere. He carried a huge staff with a cross. He wasmodest, he didn’t make a lot of disciples – just a few, in a few small circles.He didn’t preach to huge crowds like Peter or Paul. St. Andrew gatheredsmall companies, as would a geronda or a staretz.Also, he had a sense of humor. For example, some of the sources say thatwhen he first saw the saunas of the Slavs in what is now Novgorod he wroteletters to friends saying, “These Slavs are such strange people; they torturethemselves with birch branches.” He was laughing about it. You cannot imaginehim as a master of strictness. He was a humorous man, very humble, veryeasy. As a Mediterranean person he was surprised by these strange traditions.Of course, he was also a man who had seen many things. He traveled withLapp reindeer herders, with Huns, spoke to Greek philosophers, Russianmerchants, knew Chinese bureaucrats, visited primitive tribes in northernPakistan and Berbers in the deserts of the Sahara.You can understand from this how much he knew and how great his storeof practical wisdom must have been. Not only grace-filled wisdom from theLord, but his worldly wisdom. Because he was humble, he could speak to allthese people. He was not an invader, he was not an explorer, he lived as oneof them. He fished with them, ate with them, farmed with them, traveledwith them – by any means they had – on foot, by canoes or boats, horses,camels, reindeer, elephants. You can imagine what he must have seen.The important thing is that because he was humble he shared their experience.If you aren’t humble, you cannot share another person’s experience,you can only report about them, but he was their equal and he gained theirwisdom, and they gained his.Apostle Andrew was so modest that he didn’t step forward with the triadof Peter, James, and John, although he was the “first-called.” The firstcalled,but he never went first. He only went first when he had something toask from God. We have three examples of this from the gospels. One was onHoly Thursday when the Lord went to the temple, “there were certainGreeks among them that came to worship at the feast.” These Greeks cameto Philip and asked if they could see Jesus. Philip didn’t know what to dowith them so he told Andrew, and Andrew took him and went to the Lord.He was not afraid to face God, and he knew Christ was God, he was the first46 47

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 4 (#19)to understand and follow him. He was also the first missionary, to hisbrother Peter. The second time is the miracle of the five loaves and the twofish. Andrew was the one who went to the Lord and said, “We have thisproblem. Aren’t you going to do something?” He was never in the forefrontfor himself, but when it was for other people, he demanded help from God.The third time was in the Gospel of St. Mark, where, with Peter, James, andJohn, Andrew asked the Lord about the signs of the end times.In these old traditions from the second and third century, Andrew was sohumble that he thought everyone he met was Christ Himself – the captainof the boat, the peddler on the dock. The apostles didn’t have the arroganceof the Greco-Romans, or even of the Jews. They were very humble peopleand could meet both barbarians and Greek philosophers. We know that theApostle Andrew was not against Greek philosophy. He liked to speak tophilosophers and he even had as a disciple the Greek mathematician andphilosopher Stratocles, the first bishop of Patras. Stratocles was probably aformer Pythagorean, because the Pythagoreans had connected mathematicsand philosophy with a unique mysticism. This is the secret, I think, tounderstanding St. Andrew’s soul, that he was very modest and that he saweveryone as an icon of Christ.RTE: Yes. Where else was St. Andrew persecuted?GEORGE: Coptic tradition says that he was persecuted in the Land ofAnthropofagi (almost the only “uncivilized” place where we know he wasbadly treated). He was also persecuted in Kurdistan and Arab legends say thathe died there. If this story is substantially true, I believe that his persecutorsleft him for dead, but that his great physical strength allowed him to recoverand he left secretly, perhaps to protect disciples who remained behind.He was persecuted again in Sinope of Pontus, in Thessalonica, and laterin Chalandritsa near Patras. In Thessalonica, the Roman rulers put him intothe arena with wild animals, but one thing that is very good for my conscienceas a Greek is that during all of his persecutions the local Greeksdefended him. In Thessalonica, a huge uprising stopped the persecutionand the Romans were forced to take him from the arena.You can explain this persecution in the Greco-Roman world, you know.The Christian belief was not an easy belief. We can’t understand today whatit meant to put men, women, slaves, nobles, Jews (even Pharisees), barbar-48 St. Andrew’s Cathedral, Patras.

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 4 (#19)the astonishing missionary journeys of the apostle andrewians, the sick, educated scholars, and former pagan priests at the sametable, and even to allow intermarriage between them. It was against thenorms of the whole society.RTE: How old was St. Andrew when he was martyred in Patras?GEORGE: From the Romanian traditions, which I take as the most reliable,he was more than 85, perhaps even 95. We believe he was martyredbetween 95 A.D. and 105 A.D. Because of the dream he had of St. John theEvangelist in heaven, it was perhaps after St. John’s mysterious repose inEphesus (you remember, the Greek tradition says that he was buried aliveto his neck and then his body simply disappeared), which would make it 102or 103 A.D. under Emperor Trajan, not Domitian as is often thought. Infact, there are still folk songs in Romania that speak of a meeting betweenEmperor Trajan and St. Andrew.St. Andrew is exceptional, someone unique. He allowed himself to be crucifiedat a very old age. He easily could have avoided death if he had just toldMaximillia, the Roman proconsul’s wife, to return to her husband. But hewouldn’t violate truth, so Aegeates, the proconsul, had him condemned.After he was crucified, a huge Christian crowd marched on Aegeates’ palaceand he was forced to order St. Andrew’s reprieve, but the soldiers couldn’ttouch the apostle because St. Andrew himself wouldn’t allow it.St. Andrew was against the sovereignty of this world. He was a disciple ofSt. John the Baptist and he refused to compromise. If he had felt thatAegeates really regretted what he had done, he would have come down fromthe cross, but he didn’t want to do a favor for a man who would use his rescuefor his own political benefit. He wasn’t a strange man who wanted to dieon a cross, but what he wanted more was to love Aegeates and to be lovedby Aegeates in a Christian manner.It was a confrontation with the evil of the time and St. Andrew was fightingthe devil himself through this. He did not love martyrdom, he was fightingfor his Christ and that was the most important thing.RTE: What happened to his relics? Weren’t they eventually taken toConstantinople?GEORGE: Yes, they were in Patras for several centuries and then were taken,along with St. Luke’s relics in Thiva, to Constantinople in 357 bythe Byzantine commander-in-chief, Artemius, 6 to be put in the Churchof the Holy Apostles. St. Andrew’s head was left in Patras. This is thesame period in which St. Regulus traditionally took a small portion of therelics to Scotland.After the sack of Constantinople, the Crusaders took the relics to Amalfi,Italy, but St. Andrew’s head remained in Patras until the 15th century whenit was given to the Roman pope by the last rulers of Patras before theTurkish occupation. The Catholic Church returned it to the Orthodox inPatras in 1964, and it is now in the new Orthodox cathedral dedicated to St.Andrew, enshrined in a silver mitre. The old cathedral next to it still has theolder sepulchre although all the relics were removed from it long ago.His relics were scattered, but there are still a few small pieces in Amalfi. In1969, the Pope took some to the new Roman Catholic Cathedral of St. Maryin Edinburgh. Also, one foot of St. Andrew is enshrined on the island ofCephalonia (off the Peloponnese) in St. Andrew’s Monastery and there is asmall piece of the front of his skull in the Skete of St. Andrew on Mt. Athos.The cross of St. Andrew was taken from Greece during the Crusades by theDuke of Burgandy, and returned to the Orthodox cathedral in Patras in 1968from the Church of St. Victor in Marseilles.RTE: Perhaps because they are so geographically close, the Greeks andRomans seem to have been tied together throughout history. Aren’t theredescendants of Byzantine Greeks still living in southern Italy? Could theyhave known St. Andrew?GEORGE: Yes. In southern Italy we have both Greeks and descendants of proto-Bulgars from the Russian steppes who came to Greece. There is also a possibilitythat St. Andrew went to Calabria in southern Italy. There is a very old villagethere called San Andrea, Apostolo D’Ionio, “St. Andrew, Apostle of the IonianSea.” We have an unusually large number of churches dedicated to St. Andrewin this place and it was only two days by boat to southern Italy over the Ionian.It is mentioned twice by St. Gregory of Tours, that Stratocles, the firstbishop of Patras and a disciple of St. Andrew, was from Italy. There is alsoan old tradition that St. Andrew resurrected people who died in a shipwreckcoming from Italy to see him in Patras. He prayed and they came back tolife. So, there seems to be a good possibility that Stratocles, if not Andrewhimself, had connections with Calabria.6Byzantine Commander-in-chief Artemius: Later Great-Martyr Artemius, martyred in Antioch.5051

the astonishing missionary journeys of the apostle andrewRTE: You’ve spent time in these villages in southern Italy, haven’t you?GEORGE: Yes, and this is part of my own story. A close friend of mine,Antonio Mauro, is from the Greek-speaking region of southern Italy and formany years was an atheist and far left-wing fighter for human rights. I livedwith him in Bova Marina and we shared many nice times. He was an atheistand I was Orthodox, but we traveled together very often and even coveredthe war in Serbia together, me as a journalist and he as a foreign observer.Several years ago, long before I started this book, we were on our way toAthens when he said, “Let’s go to Thessalonica instead.” We went toThessalonica and he said, “Georgio, what do you think? Do you want to baptizeme? Let’s go to Mount Athos.” So we went to Mount Athos and a lot ofstrange things happened, like losing the once-a-day bus from Daphne toKaryes. There was no one else on the road so we had to walk on a very hot,difficult day. Finally, a man picked us up who had known me when I was thedirector of TV news in Cyprus. He was the brother of the hegumen (abbot)of Vatopedi, and took us to the monastery. The hegumen welcomed uswarmly and when we said that Antonio wanted to be baptized, he told usthat in this monastery there happens to be a monk, Fr. Dimitrios, who catechizesItalians in Italian.Many things happened at Vatopedi, small miracles, but the most importantof them was that after his baptism Antonio went to his room to laydown. In the meantime, as his godfather, I went downstairs to buy him asmall gift. I wanted to give him an icon of St. Anthony, but the man said,“We don’t have St. Anthony, take St. Andrew.” So I bought St. Andrew, andwhen I came back I saw Antonio looking sick, and I said, “What happened?”He said, “Nothing.” I gave him the icon and when he saw it he began to cry.He told me, “I’ve just seen this man in front of me on the wall, alive, and hetold me, ‘Antonio, you must fight,’ and I said to him, ‘My father, I’ve beenfighting all my life.’ Then he said again, ‘You must be strong and fight.’” Yousee, Antonio didn’t know if he would do alright after being baptized. He wasfeeling very good but he had some doubts. When he saw the figure on thewall, he thought it was his imagination, but then he saw the icon, exactly thesame image, and he knew that something incredible had happened.Later, I bought a small piece of land in Bova Marina and once, whenAntonio was working there, he saw St. Andrew with a huge staff. He didn’tknow that St. Andrew carried a staff, but all of the traditions speak of him asSt. Andrew's cross, Patras.53

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 4 (#19)the astonishing missionary journeys of the apostle andrewcarrying a great staff. He only saw him for a few moments, but he wasshocked because it was the living image of the same person he had seen onthe wall. When I came, he told me the story.A little later, by chance, I bought a book about the local history of BovaMarina. We were amazed when we read there that several centuries agoCatholics had taken small pieces of relics of St. Andrew from the OrthodoxChurch of Bova and thrown them into the fields. (We had no idea that St.Andrew’s relics had ever been there.) The Catholics did this because St.Andrew is the patron saint of Constantinople and they wanted to cut the tiesbetween Constantinople and this Greek-speaking area of southern Italy sothat people would become Catholic. No one knows where they threw therelics. It could have been in any of the fields around the village.RTE: Perhaps it was even your own field.GEORGE: Yes, perhaps. Only God knows.RTE: Do you feel close to St. Andrew?GEORGE: Sometimes he is very close. I often have impressions to look upthings I would never have thought of on my own, and almost always findmissing pieces or new evidence.As I was researching this book a very close relative of mine had a dreamin which she saw a monk we know from Valaamo Monastery in Finland withthe abbot of Valaamo. My relative was surprised because the abbot ofValaamo in her dream was a very different man from Igumen Sergei. Hewas a big man with a large nose, very tall. I had been working on the book,but had told her nothing about St. Andrew’s looks, but the man in herdream fit precisely with the descriptions of the apostle in all the early traditions.The most incredible thing, though, is that in her dream this man wasthe abbot of Valaamo, but she saw him in Sebastopol of the Crimea (theancient Cherson) and she knew (as you know things in dreams) that he wasalso the Metropolitan of Thrace. What she had no idea of at the time wasthat St. Andrew was the enlightener of Thrace, that he had been inSebastopol-Cherson, and you might say that he was the abbot of Valaamobecause he first brought Christianity there.Of course, all of this could be coincidence, but the thing that makes mebelieve this was more than a dream is that when I called our monk-friend inValaamo to tell him about the dream, the monks told me that he had recentlyleft for the Skete of St. Andrew on Mt. Athos!RTE: Wonderful. What do the early sources say St. Andrew looked like?GEORGE: In all the world traditions, and in the book by Max Bonnet 7 , whodid a commentary on the “Acts of Andrew” by St. Gregory of Tours, he isdescribed as being very tall, a bit stooped, with bushy eyebrows that meetover a large nose, curly hair and a beard that is mixed black and grey andwhich separates into two parts at the bottom. In her dream, my relative sawhim with blue eyes, short-necked and very, very strong. We know he wouldhave had to have been strong because he traveled and lived in verydifficult places. He went from -40 C. in Valaamo and the Caucuses to +50 C.in the deserts of the Middle East and Central Asia. You can imagine whatkind of a man he was. You can even see this in his martyrdom. He was crucifiedfor three days, but still couldn’t die, although he was very old.RTE: How has your feeling for St. Andrew changed since you began writingabout his journeys, and how has the book changed you?GEORGE: I’m still a sinner. Nothing can change me. I’m just very happy thatI’m writing this book and I’m also very shy about it. I want to write it and atthe same time I want to avoid writing it, because this is a high obligation andI’m afraid. It’s something I am obliged to do, and when it’s finished I willleave it quickly because it’s too much for me.RTE: Like Peter saying, “Lord, let us put up three tents.”GEORGE: Yes, like this. I’ve been thrilled by St. Andrew’s life. He was sohumble, so completely unimportant socially, but he was the first man onearth called by Christ Himself to be His disciple. What was it that the Divineeyes saw in his soul? He had an exceptional soul because God Himself cameto him. If Mother Mary is for the women, then St. Andrew is for the men.7M. Bonnet, Monumenta Germaniac Historica, Greg. Turon. II, pgs. 821-475455

Taybeh’s Pleafor the LastChristians ofthe Holy LandIn 1995, after college and graduate studies, Greek-American Maria C. Khoury, (B.A., HellenicCollege, A.L.M, Harvard Univ., Ed.D. Boston Univ.), left Boston for her Palestinian husband’snative village of Taybeh on the West Bank, where she has been a constant spokeswoman fornon-violence in the Holy Land and an advocate for Palestinian Christians struggling to remainin their ancestral homes. Her international witness has made her one of the most prominent andrespected Orthodox Christian voices for a just and peaceful settlement of the Israeli-Arab conflict.As an educator and lecturer, Dr. Khoury is the author of the “Christina” series of Orthodoxchildren’s books, proceeds of which go towards raising scholarships and housing opportunitiesfor the Orthodox Christians of Taybeh. Last December, Dr. Khoury was named one of the top fourHuman Rights Champions of 2009 by the D.C. Human Rights Examiner, along with His Holiness,Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I.RTE: Dr. Khoury, we’ve heard of your work for peace in the Holy Land fora decade and are honored to finally meet you. Can you begin by telling usabout your background and what led you to Palestine?DR. KHOURY: Thank you. I was born in Tripoli, Greece to Greek Orthodoxparents. My very first childhood memory is standing in front of the Church ofProphet Elias in Tripoli at midnight, with my father holding the Resurrectioncandle and telling me, “Christos Anesti!” That memory is now more importantto me than ever as I work to keep native Palestinian Christians living in theHoly Land; there must always be Orthodox faithful with indigenous Christianroots to receive the miracle of the holy fire and hear, “Christ is Risen!”When I was a child my family moved to Denver where, like many Americans,I didn’t even know that Christians lived in Palestine; at school and onthe news we only heard of Israeli Jews and Palestinian Muslims. In 1979,Opposite: Taybeh, Palestine.3

Road to Emmaus Vol. XI, No. 4 (#43)Taybeh’s PleaI went off to Hellenic College in Brookline, MA, which my parents (who werevery apprehensive of the American culture) thought would be a good safeplace for a Greek girl to maintain her cultural identity. They were right, itwas safe, but it didn’t turn out the way they expected. The first young manI met was one of the college’s only non-Greek students, David Khoury fromTaybeh, Palestine, who later became my husband. David’s cousin, BishopDemetri of the Antiochian Archdiocese, had brought him to Hellenic Collegeto study, and although he was supposed to marry a nice Palestinian girlfrom his village, and I was expected to marry a boy from my mother’s Greekvillage, God’s Providence opened the way for us to marry, which has allowedme to participate in the small Christian culture left in the Holy Land.David graduated from Hellenic College in 1980 with such a strong desireto help rebuild the Palestinian economy and create opportunities for hispeople that he worked at two jobs in Boston in order to study for his MBA.We were married in Jerusalem with the late Patriarch Diodoros officiating atthe Ascension Chapel in his private residence on the Mount of Olives.In 1993, on the front lawn of the White House, Israeli and Palestinianleaders ratified the Oslo Peace Agreement, agreeing to a two-state solution,Palestine and Israel, where Muslims, Christians and Jews could live in peaceand prosper. With hope in the Oslo Agreement, my husband gathered familyinvestors and returned to Taybeh, believing that now Palestinians and Israeliswould be able to live side by side.With his brother, Nadim Khoury, who is also a Hellenic College graduate,David started the first (and still only) micro-brewery in the Middle East. Myhusband was so proud to be from Taybeh that he named his beer after thevillage, and Taybeh Beer went onto the market in August 1995. Of course,people thought we were crazy. How can you sell an alcoholic beverage with a98% Muslim population? But fifteen years later, many of the journalists whowrote us off are coming back to do stories on the brewery and are discoveringthat we are the only all-Christian village left in the Holy Land. 1The Village of Ephraim-TaybehThe Holy Land has a beautiful history of native Christians tracing theirroots back to the time of the holy apostles, when our village of Taybeh wasknown as Ephraim. Its history extends back to 5000 B.C., and it is mentioned1 For the purposes of this interview, the term Holy Land is used to define the state of Israel and modern Palestine.Historically, many Christians have considered parts of southern Lebanon and Jordan to be part of thehistorical territory of the Holy Land, the old area of the Levant.in the Gospel of St. John, after Lazarus is raised from the dead: Jesus thereforewalked no more openly among the Jews; but went there to a countrynear to the wilderness, into a city called Ephraim, and there continued withhis disciples. (Jn. 11:54)When St. Helen came to the Holy Land to recover the holy places, she setup her camp in our area, the biblical Ephraim. Local Christians certainlywould have told her that Jesus was received here before His crucifixion. Ouroral history tells us that she built one of the first churches in the Holy Land atEphraim, the ruins of which can still be seen today. On each major site connectedwith the Lord’s life, she erected monumental churches: the Church ofthe Nativity in Bethlehem;the Church of the HolySepulchre in Jerusalem;and the Church of the Ascensionon the Mount ofOlives. In other places shebuilt smaller churches, orat least marked the placewith a cross.The village’s name waschanged when Saladin, theMuslim conqueror, came4th-century ruins of Church of St. George, Taybeh.to the area in 1187. Thelocal Christians really believed in the gospel of love, and when they fed hishungry soldiers and horses, he said, “You are Taybeen,” meaning, “You aregood.” Our oral history says that, from then on, the village was called Taybeh.In regards to food, Taybeh also means “delicious,” which is another reasonmy husband named the beer after the village.David is very proud of being from this village and, in fact, his grandfatherwas the parish priest of the Orthodox Church of St. George in Taybeh. In 1931he traveled to the Persian Gulf and to South America to raise money to rebuildthe church we pray in today. In 1948, after the United Nations declaredIsrael a Jewish homeland, his son, my father-in-law, lost his job at the JaffaPost Office and his place of residence in Jaffa to the incoming Jewish refugeesfrom Europe. Instead of fleeing to one of the refugee camps, my father-in-lawcame back to the village to begin life over again. My husband’s family treegoes back 600 years in Taybeh. It is a unique place that has survived many45

Road to Emmaus Vol. XI, No. 4 (#43)Taybeh’s Pleawars, occupations and catastrophes, and since 1967 is surviving the presentIsraeli military occupation. Today David is the mayor of the village, and hisfirst cousin, Fr. Daoud, is the priest of our Orthodox Church of St. George.Christians in the Holy LandRTE: Wonderful. We can’t possibly give a thorough history of the Israeli-Arab conflict in the context of this short interview, but can you tell us howmany Christians are left in the Holy Land, and give us a brief background ofthe history of these demographics?DR. KHOURY: Yes. After the terrible Jewish holocaust of WWII, there wasinternational support to give the Jews a homeland, and in 1948, the JewishZionists, who had been growing in numbers, declared Israel a Jewish statewith the approval of the United Nations. Under the terms of the agreement,Israeli Jews would have received 55% of the land of Palestine, and the Arabstate of Palestine would have had 45%. At the time of the declaration, Jewslegally owned 6% of the land of Palestine.The Palestinians naturally fought this decision, which overnight deprivedthem of more than half of their ancestral lands and homes. In order for Israelto be established, more than 500 native Palestinian villages were razedto the ground and 750,000 Palestinians (80% of the population of presentdayIsrael), fled to save their lives. They believed that an international, orat least a neighboring Arab army, would surely come to save them, but thatarmy never appeared. Most of these people went into U.N. camps in Gaza,the West Bank, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan. They gave birth to their childrenand grandchildren and now we have more than seven million Palestinianrefugees in those camps.For the last half century we’ve heard of these huge Palestinian refugeecamps, and we have to remember that they began from the people who fledtheir homes and properties in Haifa and in Jaffa in 1947-49. After 1949 theJews became a majority in Israel.The term Palestinian refers to the Arabs—Christian and Muslim—whosehistoric roots can be traced to the territory of Palestine. Before 1948, theChristian presence in all of the Holy Land is estimated to have been at least13% (some say as high as 25%) of the native Arab population. Today, thereare over 4 million people in Palestine who live in Gaza and the West Bank, ofwhom 98% are Muslim and less than 2% (about 60,000) are Christian. MostChristians live in mixed communities, though, our village, Taybeh, is the lastcompletely Christian village.RTE: You mean that you are the last Christian village in the Holy Land?DR. KHOURY: Yes. The last completely Christian village. We live next doorto six million Israelis in the State of Israel—a Jewish majority of five millionwith one million Israeli Arabs, descendants of those native peoples whomanaged to stay on after the institution of the Israeli state in 1948, althoughthey too lost lands and homes. Of the Israelis of Arab ethnicity in the State ofIsrael, less than 2%, approximately 110,000 are Christian. Before 1948, 50%of Jerusalem’s population was Christian; now Christians in Jerusalem areabout 4%, approximately 10,000 faithful.RTE: How are the Orthodox Christians faring in Palestine?DR. KHOURY: As I mentioned, in the West Bank and Gaza proper we haveless than 60,000 Christians, less than 2% of the total Palestinian population.A great number of Christians have been lost to forced emigration as a resultof the Israeli military occupation and blockade of Palestine. We are also losingour Christian presence because Christians have a birth rate of 2.1% whilethe Palestinian population has a birth rate between 3.3% and 3.9% in Gaza.So the average size of the Christian family is around three to four children,while for the overall population it is five to seven. Orthodox Jewish familiessometimes have up to ten children.The majority of Palestinian Christians are Orthodox by birth, but in thelast few decades the Roman Catholics and Protestants have been so charitableat meeting people’s urgent social needs that many people have begunpraying in other denominations. Catholic Charities, for example, has beenvery generous in paying school tuitions and giving Palestinians affordablehousing and work, especially with our terrible 60% unemployment. Afterreceiving this support, when Catholic or Protestant clergy say, “Wouldn’t itbe nice to see you in church on Sunday?” the Orthodox go with pleasure. Often,unfortunately, they lack full knowledge of their Orthodox faith and sincethere are so few Christians left in the Holy Land they tend to associate witheach other more readily than in other places. Also, Christian missionaries inPalestine are forbidden to convert Muslims or Jews, so the Protestants, particularly,turn their energies toward converting the Orthodox. The numbersin our Orthodox churches are diminishing.67

Road to Emmaus Vol. XI, No. 4 (#43)Taybeh’s PleaAs Orthodox, we are the largest Christian denomination in numbers, butwe give the least humanitarian services to people. In contrast, there are only2,500 Anglicans in the Holy Land, but they give the most in terms of preschools,nurseries, grammar schools, homes for the elderly, hospitals, andclinics. It’s amazing that the smallest number of people give the most servicesto both Christians and Muslims.We do have Christian schools in Palestine and we need these schoolsto exist whether they are run by the Orthodox, Lutherans, Roman Catholics,or the Anglicans, because Christians liketo associate with other Christian people andto have Christianity taught in school. Manymoderate Muslims also like to have their childrengo to Christian schools because of ournon-violent message. In these schools wetry to present Christ’s love and peace, whichmeans not only loving our neighbors, but ourenemies as well. These Christian schools offercomputer classes, sports, French from thefourth grade and English from the first grade—a little more than what the government schoolsoffer, so this is another reason why the Muslims Mayor David Khoury.like our schools, and why, in the Christian schools, Muslim students are inthe majority. We are a minority even in our own schools, but these Christianinstitutions are still very important.RTE: What is life like for Palestinian Christians?DR. KHOURY: Palestine is under military occupation by Israel, and has beensince 1967. In 2002, Israel began building what they call a “security fence,”which is a 26-foot-high, 280-mile concrete wall that has affected about 80%of Palestinians. For example, if you live near the wall, you used to walk acrossthe street to go to school, but now you have to go all the way around by thegate. What used to be a one-minute walk to your school ends up being anhour or more. You used to go across the street to check on your grandmotheror to work in your dad’s shop, but now the wall separates people from theirfamilies, from their own lives. The wall went up, not on any internationallyrecognized borders, such as those of 1967; it went where Israel wanted it toOpposite: Maria C. Khoury89

Road to Emmaus Vol. XI, No. 4 (#43)Taybeh’s Pleago. It was also a clever way for Israel to confiscate more Palestinian land byputting it on the Israeli side of the wall.After the Oslo Accords, I heard Americans say, “Oh, those Israelis were sonice, they gave the Palestinians a country,” but they don’t realize that YasserArafat gave up a great deal in signing the Oslo Agreement. By the accords wewere divided into sectors A, B, and C, and although the land is internationallyrecognized as autonomous Palestinian territory, illegal Israeli settlementshave been built on Palestinian land for decades, which gives Israel a reasonto defend their citizens and occupy Palestine. There are now approximately500,000 extreme right wing Jewish people in these illegal settlements whobelieve that God promised them this land as the chosen people. New illegalsettlements are continually being built against the protest of the internationalcommunity. Israel has stated many times that their goal is a 100%Jewish homeland.RTE: What has the international community said about the wall?DR. KHOURY: On July 9, 2004, the International Court of Justice of theUnited Nations declared that Israel must cease construction of the wall andimmediately dismantle sections located in the occupied territories, repealrelated legislative and regulatory acts, compensate for the damage caused,and either return Palestinian property or provide compensation if return isnot possible. 2 None of this has been done.BethlehemMany Christians abroad don’t realize that this 26-foot concrete wall nowcompletely surrounds Bethlehem, which is internationally recognized asPalestinian territory. In my area near Ramallah, there is another wall, alsocompletely closing us in, and a third up north in Jenin. Because we aren’tallowed to travel freely between these areas without going through the harassmentof Israeli checkpoints, they are like small prison camps, intendedto disassociate Palestinian communities from one another.Also, in many cases, in building the wall, Palestinian land was arbitrarilyand illegally included on the Israeli side. In Bethlehem we had the CremisanWinery, run by Italian monks for 120 years, which provided jobs to BethlehemChristians and was traditionally viewed as a Palestinian winery. Butin 2008, when the Israelis finished building the wall, they put fifty dunums2 http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=11292&Cr=palestin&Cr1(about twelve acres) of Palestinian land, including the winery, on the Israeliside. As a result, all of the Bethlehem workers lost their jobs because thewall is now between them and the winery and they cannot get to work. Anadjacent Palestinian pre-school as well as a small Roman Catholic seminaryoperated by the Celestine sisters were also isolated on the Israeli side and theteachers and students no longer have access to these schools.We also have about 150 Christian families on the borders of Bethlehem,whose school, work, and medical care was in town. The wall has cut themoff, and not only can theyno longer go into Bethlehemto fulfill their dailyneeds, but neither willthe Israelis give thempermits to go to Jerusalem.They’ve lost theirjobs, schools, and accessto hospitals and are consignedto a closed corridor,a no man’s land.How long can you stayWall around Beit Sehour, near Bethlehem.in a place like this, evenif your ancestors have lived here for thousands of years? Some people in thisarea literally have the concrete wall on all four sides of their house due toRachel’s Tomb being wrongly seen as only a Jewish holy site.Before September 2000, Bethlehem had almost 25,000 Christians. Over3000 Christians left Bethlehem between 2000-2003, after the Israelisbombed and destroyed many of the Christian homes because PalestinianMuslim fighters were using them as cover to shoot at the illegal Israeli settlementssurrounding the town. The army came in to crush them, and manyresidents of Bethlehem left because they couldn’t handle the bombs fallingon top of their heads. In twenty-five years, if the situation stays as it is nowwith the harsh Israeli occupation policies, there will be hardly any Christiansleft in Bethlehem.The economic, political, and religious situation has become even more difficultbecause the Israelis now control tourism, even Christian pilgrimage.When people come to the Holy Land with an Israeli tour company, the guidesays, “You know, it’s really dangerous to go to Bethlehem; it’s under the Pales-1011

Road to Emmaus Vol. XI, No. 4 (#43)Taybeh’s Pleatinians and the Palestinians are terrorists.” When you have a group of Christianswho don’t buy this and insist on seeing the Lord’s birthplace, the guidesmay agree to take you to the Church of the Nativity, but you won’t be allowedto shop at the square or in the local shops, you won’t be allowed to eat at thelittle traditional restaurants around Nativity Square, and you won’t stay overnightin any of the hotels that Christian Palestinians own in Bethlehem.Instead they will take you souvenir shopping in malls in Jerusalem orTel Aviv, and to Jewish restaurants and hotels in West Jerusalem. I tellpeople, “If you are making a pilgrimage to the Holy Land, pay attention towho your travel agent and guides are.” Will you be going to Christian placesand seeing real Christian communities? These Bethlehem families who sellbeautiful locally-made souvenirs and gifts are often descendants of peoplewho have been living and working around the square for hundreds of years.Please ask or even insist on having a Christian tour guide when you bookyour pilgrimage.”RTE: Can you give us the names and e-mails of good Christian travel agentsin Jerusalem or Bethlehem?DR. KHOURY: I think one of the most interesting agencies is Alternative TourismGroup-ATG operating out of Bethlehem, at www.atg.ps on the internet.Also, Shepherds Tours and Sindbad Travel in Jerusalem are excellent Christian-runtravel agencies that can partner with American or European travelagencies. They can be reached at www.shepherdstours.com, and at www.sindbad-tours.com. Rula Khoury, originally from Taybeh, also promotestours to the holy sites (taybehtours@gmail.com), and Fr. Ilya Gotlinsky, whois based in New York, guides Orthodox tours from America to the Holy Land(www.orthodoxtours.com).RTE: After your account of the troubles, some readers might be hesitant togo to Bethlehem and Taybeh. Are the West Bank and Bethlehem safe forpilgrims?DR. KHOURY: No foreign tourist or pilgrim has ever been harmed, and theIsraeli army allows international passport holders freedom of movement ona legal visitor visa (which Americans and most Europeans obtain automaticallyat the airport.) Although some foreign volunteers and journalists in themidst of the fighting have been hurt, even at the height of the violence in2001 and 2002, visitors safely traveled in and out, and it is much safer nowfor foreigners to visit Jerusalem and Bethlehem.RTE: How are the people of Bethlehem responding to these conditions?DR. KHOURY: As we all know, since 1948, when the Israelis took over Palestinianproperties, there has been fighting between the Palestinians andIsraelis, but we also have a lot of non-violent action in Palestine, both Christianand Muslim, that you rarely hear about in the news. For example, on theoutskirts of Bethlehem is the 80% Christian town of Beit Sahour, the neighborhoodof Shepherd’s Field, where the angels appeared to the shepherds totell them of Christ’s birth. Illegal Israeli settlements have appeared in BeitSahour, which are eating up Bethlehem’s land and encroaching on ancientChristian holy sites. Well known Palestinians working for peace here are Dr.Mazin Qumsiyeh 3 and Sami Awad, director of the Holy Land Trust, who protestagainst the illegal Israeli settlements in Beit Sahour. We also have thePalestinian Center for Rapprochement Between People, headed by GeorgeRishmawi. In the village of Bil’in, we’ve had nonviolent protests every Fridayagainst the wall that has taken so much of their farmland and denies the villagefarmers access to their own fields, and also in the village of Budrus. So,this nonviolent action is happening, but we also have Israeli and Palestinianfanatics that swallow up the voices of normal people on both sides.RTE: In preparing for our interview, I read that the Christians of Beit Sahourhave sponsored a program called “Break Bread, Not Bones,” inviting Israelifamilies of goodwill to come and spend a weekend in a Palestinian home.Still, as Gandhi’s experiment showed, nonviolent action often has a heavycost. Many people don’t know that in 1989, when Beit Sahour refused topay taxes for precisely the same reasons that Americans had the Boston TeaParty (“No taxation without representation”), the Israeli military authoritiesblocked food shipments to the town for 42 days, cut the telephone lines,barred reporters, and raided over 350 homes, seizing millions of dollars inmoney and property. They also refused to let the consul-generals of Belgium,Britain, France, Italy, Greece, Spain, and Sweden into the town to investigatethe conditions. In this instance, non-violent action was brutally punished.Nor have things improved: none of the 130 home-based traditional3 Dr. Mazin Qumsiyeh, former Associate Professor of Genetics at Duke and Yale Universities. A native Palestinian,Dr. Qumsiyeh is an advocate for Palestinian refugee rights and authored Sharing the Land of Canaan:Human Rights and the Israeli/Palestinian Struggle.1213

Road to Emmaus Vol. XI, No. 4 (#43)Taybeh’s Pleahandicraft workshops that have been run by local families for centuries canexport to Jerusalem or sell to local tourists.DR. KHOURY: Yes. Another group that is trying to bring awareness is the InternationalSolidarity Movement, which started in Palestine around 2000.People from other countries are invited to live in Palestinian communitiesand go back to their countries to bring awareness of these human rightsabuses by Israel. In December, 2009, Palestinian Christian leaders issuedthe Kairos Palestine Document (www.kairospalestine.ps), calling on churchesaround the world “to say a word of truth and to take a position of truthwith regard to Israel’s occupation of Palestinian land.” From 2002, the WCCalso initiated the Ecumenical Accompaniment Programme in Palestine andIsrael (EAPPI) which brings volunteers to our area every six months to takeback their eyewitness experiences to their churches.Taybeh: Water, Roads, Trees and a WallRTE: How has all of this affected you in Taybeh?DR. KHOURY: Ever since I began living in Taybeh in the early 90’s, I’ve feltI was in a psychological prison because there are checkpoints everywhere,which means soldiers with machine guns, who may or may not let you pass.In the 1990’s you always had to identify yourself and you often had to havepermits to pass through the checkpoints, but with the concrete wall in 2002,this psychological prison became a physical prison.In my village of Taybeh we have three illegal Israeli settlements surroundingus that control all of the bypass roads and all of the natural resources. Wehave no access to the roads going in or out of our village to Jerusalem withoutIsraeli permission, although most countries recognize the PalestinianOccupied Territories. The Israeli settlers have paved roads, but even whenwe can obtain a permit, they only allow us to use the steep gravel back roadswith large potholes that often damage our cars and are extremely dangerousin the winter rains. This is a form of punishment for Palestinians. Even onthese back roads we are stopped by Israeli soldiers at checkpoints along theway, but this is the only way we can get to work or to school in Ramallah. I’llreturn to the problem of permits and checkpoints in a moment.In terms of natural resources, the Israelis now also control all of the waterresources. In Taybeh we don’t have water on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,Opposite: Taybeh, Palestine.1415

Road to Emmaus Vol. XI, No. 4 (#43)Taybeh’s Pleaor Thursday. Our water is completely shut off, although the Israeli settlementsringing our village have water 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Ifall of us were going without water, I’d think, “Fine, this is what we need todo to save water,” but when this only applies to the Palestinian villages, it ispure discrimination.RTE: Just a moment. You are in the desert and you have no water for fourdays out of seven?DR. KHOURY: Yes. Another huge problem is the deliberate ecological devastationof Palestine by the Israeli army. Since 1967, over a million treeshave been uprooted in Palestine; half of that number were destroyed in thelast decade on private Palestinian land. Most of these were olive trees andmany of our families depended on the olives for a livelihood, as there is verylittle work. This systematic uprooting by the army not only destroyed thesefamilies’ livelihoods, but has drastically hurt nature in an already vulnerableregion. The Israeli settlers burned twenty-five of our own Khoury family olivetrees in 2002 when they destroyed 125 olive trees on Taybeh land. Theseolive trees were 500, 600, 700 years old. It’s a tragedy for both the peopleand the earth.RTE: How terrible. Are these people able to find work elsewhere?DR. KHOURY: I’m returning to that now. The roads, as I was saying, are ourvillage lifelines. News in the West usually says that these checkpoints are forthe security of Israel, but in my case I’m living in the Palestinian village ofTaybeh and am going to the Palestinian town of Ramallah to take my childrento school. Before 2000, I could be in Ramallah in fifteen minutes, butbecause the illegal Israeli settlers in Ofra want to punish Palestinians, theyshut down the road. For ten years now, no one has made them accountable toreopen it. In 2002 and 2003, when I was taking my children to the Friends’School in Ramallah, it was a two-hour nightmare to get to school every day,and if we managed to get there, another two hours back. We had to start at6:00 a.m. to be at school by 8:00—a trip through four or five checkpointswith long lines at each one to get, not from Palestine to Israel, but from onePalestinian town to another. Many times, when I was at the last checkpointand could see the school, the Israeli soldiers would stop us and say, “Thisroad is closed. You can’t pass.” This is intended to strip you of your humandignity, and to mentally harass you to the point that you say, “I just can’t livehere anymore.”It really takes all of Christ’s love in your heart to remember that the Gospelsays, not just “Love your neighbor,” but “Love your enemy,” because whatyou say to that soldier and your prayer for him is what distinguishes you asa Christian. When I tell him, “God protect you today,” I have my son on theother side punching my arm and saying, “Mom, you should tell him, ‘God,take you away,’ because he’s stopping us from going to school.” Every singleday I’m challenged to teach my own children my Orthodox Christian values.Now, with the wall, things are much more difficult. Before the wall wasbuilt, if our Taybeh Brewery employed an Israeli driver and had a truck withIsraeli plates we could go through any checkpoint to get our Taybeh Beerinto Jerusalem, even if we had to wait eight hours or were turned back altogetherat the checkpoint and had to wait for another day. But now, to makethings even more difficult for Palestinian businesses, there are designatedcommercial checkpoints, and Palestinian and Israeli trucks may not passthem, so we have to employ two trucks and two drivers, a Palestinian truckand driver from Taybeh to the checkpoint, and an Israeli truck and driverfrom the checkpoint to Jerusalem.Although Jerusalem is only twenty-five minutes away from the brewery,the wall’s new commercial checkpoint with a scanner is three hours out of theway. So, our Palestinian truck drives three hours to the checkpoint, spendssix or eight hours getting through, unloading, and repacking, and then makesthe three-hour return to Taybeh. Our Israeli truck makes the same trip fromJerusalem, picks up the merchandise, and drives back to Jerusalem. Whatused to be a twenty-five minute ride for one driver, now takes two trucks, twodrivers, twenty hours of work and travel, and seven times the gas.Permits (or Not)From 2000, Palestinians have needed permits to use the by-pass roadsto go to Jerusalem or to the airport and good hospitals. You need a permitfor everything, and even if you manage to get a permit after hours of forms,lines, and waiting, the permit will expire. Whether a permit is good for oneday, or one week, or one month, you always face the long process of obtaininga new permit each time.I’ve gone to the American Consul to beg for help many times, “Please, givemy husband, who is an American citizen, a permit to fly out of the Ben-Gu-1617

Road to Emmaus Vol. XI, No. 4 (#43)Taybeh’s Plearion airport.” The response from the consul is, “When it comes to the Israelis,there’s not much we can do.” But I still don’t give up. I keep thinking thatperhaps as a woman, as a Christian, as an American citizen, I might receivespecial privileges, so I go to the Israeli captain at the district coordinatingoffice (DCO) and beg him, “My husband is the mayor of Taybeh. You knowhe doesn’t belong to any militant group. Please give him a permit to use theTel Aviv airport, so that he can quickly fly out to check on our children inBoston.” The answer from the Israelis is that they don’t want to see Palestiniansat the Tel Aviv-Ben Gurion Airport, so David has to spend two dayscrossing the Jordanian bridge to use the airport in Amman, Jordan. Evenif you are an American citizen, as a Palestinian, you can’t use the Tel Avivairport without a permit, but if you are an Israeli and an American there isno problem. There are many such discriminatory laws against Palestiniansinstituted by Israel.We go through similar struggles to get permits to enter Jerusalem. Forexample, the British Consulate will serve Taybeh Beer for special occasionslike the Queen’s Birthday in June, or the Spanish Consulate will serve it fora national holiday. We have official embassy invitations and would like to attendto show our appreciation, but although we can import the beer with difficulty,the Israelis won’t give my husband, the owner of the company and anAmerican citizen, a permit to travel. Even if David manages to get a permit,he won’t be allowed to ride with our driver when he delivers the beer, becauseDavid can only go to the Qalandia checkpoint, where the Palestinianswalk like cattle through metal bars to enter Jerusalem. If you have a permit,why can’t you use any checkpoint? This is illogical; the layers of punishmentand frustration are mind-boggling.Before 2000 we were able to get such permits, but since September 28,2000 an extra cycle of violence started when former Israeli Prime Minister(then the Defense Minister) Ariel Sharon made a provocative visit with 1000Israeli police to the East Jerusalem Temple Mount complex, which is alsothe site of the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa Mosque, the holiest Islamic site4 http://www.ariel-sharon-life-story.com/16-Ariel-Sharon-Biography-2000-Visit-to-the-Temple-Mount.shtml. Accessed 8/10/2010.5 East Jerusalem: Under the 1947 U.N. Partition Plan, Jerusalem was designated an international city, part ofneither the proposed Jewish or Arab states. During the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, the western part of Jerusalemwas captured by Israel, while East Jerusalem (including the Old City and the Temple Mount) was capturedby Jordan and these boundaries were ratified by the 1948 Armistice Agreements. During the Six-Day War of1967, Israel captured the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and in November 1967, the United Nationsoutside of Mecca. A few days later he explained his visit, saying, “the Palestiniansmust recognize the historical right of the Jews to their capital, andparticularly to the Temple Mount.” 4 It was clear to the international communitythat he was restating Israel’s claim of sovereignty. 5 Muslim peoplewere offended, began protesting, and all hell broke loose. We haven’t had anormal day in the Holy Land since. Also, since 1967, the Israeli army has demolishedmore than 24,000 Palestinian homes, and in the last decade alonewe’ve had over 39,000 people sustain major injuries. Six thousand have losttheir lives, usually from being at the wrong place at the wrong time, includingthousands of childrenon their way to school.RTE: I would find thesenumbers incredible, butunfortunately I had personalexperience of thiswhen I was in the HolyLand for extended periodsin the early 1990’s.In 1995, I was in an Arabtaxi going from Jerusalemto Jericho on, as youPalestinian child next to demolished home, with newIsraeli settlements in background, 2004.say, one of the gravel-rutted back roads. As we came up over a rise in a hill,we saw Israeli soldiers with heavy equipment bulldozing down a Palestinianvillage. The villagers were standing by the roadside with some householdgoods scattered around them, guarded by soldiers with guns; the women andchildren were crying. An Israeli soldier, obviously angry that we had comeupon the scene, waved us over. He demanded our identification, and copieddown the driver’s name and license number. When he saw I was Americanhe leaned in the back window and leered unpleasantly in English, “San-i-tation.”He then said something to the driver in an undertone, who shook hishead. As we drove away, I asked what the soldier had said, and the driverreplied, “He said: ‘I have your name. You didn’t see anything, did you?’”Security Council Resolution 242 was passed, calling for Israel to withdraw “from territories occupied in therecent conflict”. In 1980, the Knesset passed the Jerusalem Law which declared that “Jerusalem, completeand united, is the capital of Israel.” This declaration was declared “null and void” by United Nations SecurityCouncil Resolution 478; nevertheless, Israel forcibly incorporated East Jerusalem and several neighboringvillages into the municipality of Jerusalem. This incorporation, amounting to 111 km2 (43 sq mi) of WestBank territory, has also been condemned by the UN and the international community.1819

Road to Emmaus Vol. XI, No. 4 (#43)Taybeh’s PleaGaza and International AidDR. KHOURY: Yes, unfortunately that happened over and over. Today, thingsare even worse than in 1995. For instance, 80% of the people in Gaza can’tlive unless someone gives them flour, rice and oil. They don’t even haveenough drinking water, and they live on less than $2 a day.The 22-day Israeli attack on Gaza in 2008 was particularly dreadful becausemore than 1,400 Palestinians were killed and 5000 injured. Of thePalestinians killed, 313 were children and more than half of the Palestinianskilled were unarmed. On the Israeli side, 13 people were killed, threeby “friendly fire” (that is Israeli fire). Many schools, factories, and the U.N.buildings were badly damaged, as well as over thirty mosques. If somethinghad happened to one Jewish temple, you would have heard about it all overthe media, but when thirty mosques are destroyed in Gaza, the Palestiniansare just supposed to take it.This has resulted in Muslim Palestinians deepening their Islamic identity.When I first came to Ramallah in the early 90’s, I would see nine womenon the street in modern Western clothing, as opposed to one dressed as afundamentalist Muslim. Now in Ramallah, there are nine women in Islamicdress to each one who is not.We American taxpayers have been supporting Israel since 1948; this moneyhas been used for the occupation and the wall. We are now providing Israelwith $7 million each day in military aid, a total of $58 billion in militaryaid since 1949. 6When I’m in the U.S., I always ask Americans to be more aware of whatIsrael is doing; I don’t want to lose hope that contacting senators and congressmencan do something, even though the Israeli lobby is extremely powerful.But in June of 2009, days after President Obama called for a freeze tothe illegal Israeli settlements, the Israeli Defense Minister defiantly authorizedthe building of 300 new homes in Givat Habrecha, near Talmon. As Imentioned previously, there are now about 500,000 illegal Israeli settlers inthe West Bank, including East Jerusalem, which has never been internationallyrecognized as Israeli territory.RTE: And what kind of U.S. aid do Palestine and Gaza receive?6 U.S. Aid to Israel statistics: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/U.S._Assistance_to_Israel1.htmlOpposite: Awaiting the Holy Fire, Holy Saturday at the Lord’s Tomb, Jerusalem.2021

Road to Emmaus Vol. XI, No. 4 (#43)Taybeh’s PleaDR. KHOURY: The U.S. has never given anything for military aid, but sincethe Oslo Agreement it has annually given varying amounts of humanitarianand economic aid, depending on the administration and U.S. interests. Thishumanitarian aid is linked to Palestinian cooperation with U.S. foreign policy.Different European countries have contributed more substantial longtermassistance. 7Access to Christian Holy SitesRTE: What are the long-term hopes of Palestinian Christians?DR. KHOURY: We want to find a way to share this sacred land, because it issacred to all. We don’t understand why Jerusalem has to be all Jewish. OurLord and Saviour was crucified and resurrected in Jerusalem and we want tohave access to our holy sites, to be able to worship as Christian people. Fora Christian, the Life-Giving Tomb of Christ is the most important holy sitein the world.RTE: Palestinian Christians are not allowed to go to the Holy Sepulchre?DR. KHOURY: Not unless we have permits. The Israeli army sometimes givesa few permits on Christian holidays, but this is completely arbitrary. Theymay let the Catholic nuns from Taybeh, for example, take a bus to Jerusalem,while they deny the Catholic nuns from Al-Ahliyyah College in Ramallahthe same permit. It doesn’t make sense.Even for our celebration of the coming of the Holy Fire on Holy Saturday,we may have Palestinian Christians who have finally received a permit to gointo Jerusalem, but over the past two years, once you enter Jerusalem younow have to have another permit to go to the Holy Sepulchre. That meansa second set of checkpoints from the gates of the Old City to the Holy Sepulchre.You might finally obtain that permit to Jerusalem, only to find thatonce in the city, you are arbitrarily turned back from the church. One of ourmost urgent demands is for the right to worship.It took me twenty-five years to get to St. Catherine’s Monastery on Mt.Sinai, although it is only four hours away. Sometimes we would get to theIsraeli border at Eilat and they would let me across, but refuse permission tomy husband (who is also an American citizen). Or, they would decide on otheryears to let us both across but wouldn’t let us take our car; but you can’t7 U.S. Aid to Palestine statistics: www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdfleave your car at the border because it will be stripped or stolen, and the borderguards know this is so. After decades of trying to go to St. Catherine’s onour own, I finally joined an Orthodox pilgrimage group. My husband hasn’tyet been able to go.I beg people, “Please, put the Holy Land on your list of worthy causes tosupport, because when the Patriarch comes out and proclaims, “Christ isRisen” with that beautiful miracle of the holy fire, we want local Christiansthere to respond, “Truly, He is Risen!” We are very glad that internationalpilgrims come, but we don’t want the local people, who trace their roots tothe time of the apostles, to disappear. Although we are small in number, wewant this little number to remain.Taybeh RespondsRTE: How has your village responded to the troubles, and how do you manageto stay in Palestine?DR. KHOURY: The one thing that is still in each and every person you meet isthe willingness to wait for a free Palestine. Israel has forced many Palestiniansto emigrate, but it hasnot succeeded in stealingthe will of the people.As for our family, myhusband has such a greatlove for his country andhis family that he feelsthat the only peaceful resistancewe can have asChristians is to live hereourselves, to keep ourNadim Khoury, Master Brewer, Taybeh Beer.money here, and to runour business. In 2005, David became the first democratically elected mayorof Taybeh, but because things became much harder at that point politically,and it was becoming extremely difficult to take Palestinian products out ofthe village to Jerusalem, we knew we had to find creative ways to survive. So,using the good name of Taybeh Beer, we began inviting people to come to thevillage for a Taybeh Oktoberfest. Just as the profit from a church festival inthe United States greatly assists parish expenses, our village festival helps the2223

Road to Emmaus Vol. XI, No. 4 (#43)Taybeh’s Pleasmall businesses and our five women’s cooperatives, who sell more in thatone festival than the rest of the year in this artificially collapsed economy.Both my husband and I work for free for the municipality. Other mayorsget paid, but my husband David doesn’t, because we are trying to be a rolemodel for people to stay in the land of Christ’s Resurrection. We both haveAmerican passports, we can leave at any time and live in freedom on theother side of the world, but we don’t want to leave these centuries of deephistory and the witness that native Christians have always provided.RTE: Right. What are the five women’s cooperatives?DR. KHOURY: These are Taybeh women who work together to produce andsell embroidery, honey, yogurt, couscous, olives, and olive oil. They makethese products to help their families and they equally share the profits. TheTaybeh Municipality assiststhem by advertising,paying for posters,hiring musicians, andrunning the festival, sothese women keep 100%of their sales. I help withadministration, fundraising,writing proposals,and inviting musicians.Most of our advertising inStreet between houses, Taybeh’s historic center.the West Bank is by wordof mouth. Because we sell an alcoholic product we can’t advertise among the98% Muslim population, but with the Oktoberfest we have found a way tocircumvent the lack of advertising, the collapsed economy, and the Israeliclosure, by inviting people who can travel to come to us.For five years now, international visitors have crossed the checkpoints toTaybeh, come to the Oktoberfest and bought local products. In 1995 about4,000 people attended, while last year, in 2009, we had over 10,000; what beganas a small gathering has become the most distinctive festival in Palestine.It was an extra blessing that twenty-four ambassadors and/or diplomats werepresent at the Oktoberfest 2009 opening as official representatives for theircountries, including the British and American Consul Generals in Jerusalem.For me success each year means that it was peaceful and that it took place.This is our peaceful resistance, our way of saying that we want to live here anddo the normal things that other people around the world take for granted.RTE: Do you have any support from the international community?DR. KHOURY: Taybeh has received support for this festival from the Danish,Finnish and British governments. Last year, Denmark gave us $16,000 andwith that we were not only able to make one of the roads safer, but to createa few jobs for a month. The previous year they gave $5,000 to pay for musiciansfor the Oktoberfest, and they donated a garbage truck worth €100,000to the Taybeh Municipality, an amazing support that has helped us keep Taybehclean! Last year, the Palestinian Ministry of Finance, with funds fromU.S. Aid, was able to pave both entrance roads to our village. Through myhusband’s leadership we have obtained some amazing support for Taybeh.RTE: How many people have left Taybeh, and are those abroad able to help?DR. KHOURY: Before 1967 there were almost 4,000 people in Taybeh. Nowwe are less than 2,000 and there are more Taybeh natives and descendantsof natives living in Jordan, Detroit, and in Guatemala than in Taybeh itself.People want to go to a place where there is freedom, work, and the abilityto put food on the table. Taybeh people abroad are still mostly first and secondgeneration immigrants so things are not easy for them, but they do tryto help. The United Taybeh American Association has contributed $20,000to help us build the Taybeh Post Office, and they also offer a yearly $1,000award to the best graduating senior and $500 to the second best in bothscience and the humanities. Along with Fr. Constantine Nasr, originallyfrom Taybeh but now at Saint Elijah Orthodox Church in Oklahoma City,the UTAA are also generously helping us to add classrooms to the OrthodoxSchool in Taybeh, along with a new grant of $750,000 from the AmericanNear East Refugee Agency. This is amazing and unexpected support. Also,for the past decade, North Park University in Chicago has annually given afour-year tuition scholarship to a Palestinian Christian student.Palestinian Christian-Muslim RelationsRTE: If this question isn’t too broad, what are relations like between PalestinianChristians and Muslims, and what is your experience of living underthe PLO and Hamas?2425

Road to Emmaus Vol. XI, No. 4 (#43)Taybeh’s PleaDR. KHOURY: The Palestinian Christians and Muslims have had fair relationshipsover the last thirty years that I have travelled and lived in the HolyLand. They are united with one language and one culture, and they are bothfighting the discriminatory Israeli occupation policies. But of course, theydiffer in faith.To answer this clearly, I have to give a bit of background. The PLO (PalestineLiberation Organization) represented by the Fatah Party is now thegoverning body of Palestine;Hamas currentlycontrols only Gaza. Fromthe mid-1970’s onward,after its admission to theU.N. with observer status,most of the worldrecognized the PLO as thelegitimate representativeof the Palestinian people,and Palestine’s Declarationof Independence wasPalestinian Christian girls at Taybeh Oktoberfest, 2008.accepted by the U.N. in 1988. Only the U.S. and Israel continued to list it asa terrorist organization until the Madrid Conference of 1991, and both finallyrecognized the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people in 1993with the Oslo Peace Agreement.Many people don’t realize that in the early 1980’s the Islamic fundamentalistright-wing Hamas organization was actively encouraged in Palestineby the Israeli government with U.S. backing, in order to break the influenceof the late Yasser Arafat, who had the strength and charisma to unite Palestiniansunder the PLO with his moderate Fatah Party. Both Israel and theU.S. hoped that increased religious fundamentalism would encourage moreprayer in the mosques and less participation in left-wing groups like thePLO. Palestine had never seen fundamentalism before, and as we know, theintroduction of Hamas backfired badly.With the Oslo Peace Accords in 1993, the PLO laid down its guns, andYasser Arafat was recognized as the head of the Palestinian Authority by theentire world, Israel and the U.S. included. I truly believe that under Arafat,we Christians had a future in Palestine; he was the lesser of many evils. NotOpposite: Belltower, Greek Orthodox Church of St. George, Taybeh.2627

Road to Emmaus Vol. XI, No. 4 (#43)Taybeh’s Pleaonly were some of his close advisors Christian, but his wife, Suha, was anOrthodox Christian who probably converted to Islam to marry.In 2006, America and the European Union supported free elections inPalestine. The Palestinians were discouraged that, after thirteen years, thePLO-Fatah-controlled Palestinian Authority had neither protected them norled them to peace. Out of desperation, people will vote for anyone different,hoping the situation will improve. And unfortunately, Hamas, the Islamicright wing party won the elections fair and square, under the microscopeof international observers. With 74 of 132 seats, they were able to form amajority government. Hamas was popular because it had sponsored manysocial services that had been disrupted by the Israeli occupation, includingeducation, medical clinics, youth groups, and day-care. Israel, America, andother nations didn’t like whom the Palestinians voted for, so they economicallyand politically boycotted the new government, which could not survivewithout funds coming in to run the country.Personally, I was completely shocked that the Hamas government won the2006 parliament elections. We did not believe Hamas would ever win, andwe worried that under a Hamas government we would have trouble surviving,but as I said, because of the international financial boycott they were notable to stay in power in the West Bank.In 2007 there was a split; Hamas retained power over Gaza, and Americaset up an emergency government of Fatah leaders in the West Bank. After2007, when the government was “rearranged”, financial assistance began toreturn to the Palestinian Authority, as the international community truststhe current Prime Minister, Dr. Salam Fayyat.RTE: And how about the Arab Christians who didn’t leave Israel after 1948—how are they faring as Israeli citizens?DR. KHOURY: They are Israeli citizens and have the right to vote (there are afew Arabs in the Knesset) but there are many problems. In 1992 Israel passedThe Basic Law of Human Dignity and Freedom, stipulating that Israel is a“democratic Jewish State”, not a state of all of its citizens. Palestinian Arabswho are Israeli citizens receive the least assistance from the government andare therefore the poorest group in Israel. Government-sponsored Palestinianschools are much lower in quality than government-sponsored Jewishschools: the ratio of money spent on Israeli and Palestinian students is about10:1, and as many as 100 Palestinian villages in Israel, many of which predatethe founding of the state, are not recognized by the Israeli government,are not listed on maps and receive no services (water, electricity, sanitation,roads, etc.) from the government. More than 70,000 Palestinians live inthese unrecognized villages. 8Right now in Jerusalem, in 2010—it began last year—courts are evictingPalestinian families, both Christian and Muslims, from their homes andmoving in Israeli settlers. Families from the Silwan neighborhood have beenissued evacuation notices to make way for a park, but Jewish families in thesame neighborhood have not been asked to move. Both the U.N. and theU.S. registered complaints about the decision,but this didn’t help. Over the past decade, moreand more Jewish families have been movinginto East Jerusalem, which was always majorityArab.Another problem faced by Palestinian Christiansin Jerusalem who are citizens of Israel, isthat there are different marriage rules for youthan for Jewish Israelis. If you find a Christianyou want to marry and that person lives inGaza, the West Bank, or even the United States,you are not allowed family unification rights,meaning that you cannot bring your spouse tolive with you in Jerusalem. If you want to marrythat person you must leave Jerusalem. But ifyou are Jewish you can bring a Jewish spouse,or any other person from anywhere in theworld. These immigration policies are aimed atcleansing the city of Palestinians.RTE: There must also be a great strain on Jewishpeople who convert to Christianity, or thosewho legally emigrated there from the formerSoviet Union as ethnic Jews, but who expectedto practice their Orthodox Christianity. I understandthat this Russian Orthodox population has grown, many of whomare now second and third generation.8 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel, cited 8/31/2010.St. Philoumenos (Hasapis),martyred 1979 at Jacob’s Well,Palestine.2829

Road to Emmaus Vol. XI, No. 4 (#43)Taybeh’s PleaDR. KHOURY: Yes, we have at least 200,000 Russian immigrants of Jewishdescent who are currently Orthodox Christians, and this number might haverisen in the last few years, but the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate in Jerusalemdoes not have updated statistics.RTE: When I was in Jerusalem in 1992 and 1995, there were Israeli policetaking photos of everyone walking into the Orthodox churches on feast days,hoping to catch the Russian Orthodox Christians of Jewish background inorder to deport them. Two Orthodox Christians I met could not go to churchfor fear of being deported, and the Christians were forbidden to proselytize. Iunderstand that now they can go to school and obtain jobs, but that they areoutcasts socially. Christians are still forbidden to proselytize, and there havebeen incidents of harassment and some New Testament burnings. Christiansoutside the Holy Land also don’t realize that we have a newly-canonizedincorrupt new martyr and wonder-worker, St. Philoumenos (Hasapis),who was murdered at Jacob’s Well in 1979. 9Jewish Support for Human Rights in PalestineDR. KHOURY: These things do go on, and I also want to emphasize that thereare Jewish people in Israel who are for equal rights and who are against themilitary occupation of Palestine. These are small, but active groups who speakout against what they see their government doing, and often have to bear theconsequences of their protest. We are very grateful for their support. “Womenin Black” began in Israel in 1988, and is made up of Jewish Israeli womenwho hold peace vigils in black clothing, sometimes hundreds at a time, askingfor the occupation to end. They believe in equal rights for Palestinians.9 Ed. Note: New Martyr Archimandrite Philoumenos (Hasapis), 1913-1979, was Igumen of the Greek OrthodoxMonastery of Jacob’s Well, near the city of Samaria, now Nablus (Neapolis) in the West Bank. Oneweek before his martyrdom in 1979, a group of Zionists came to the monastery at Jacob’s Well and claimedit as a Jewish holy place, demanding that all crosses and icons be removed. Father Philoumenos pointedout that the floor on which they stood was built by Emperor Constantine before 331 A.D. and had servedas an Orthodox Christian holy place for sixteen centuries before the State of Israel was created. In the eightcenturies before that, the well had been not in the hands of the Hebrew people, but of the Samaritans. Thegroup left with threats. On November 16/29, 1979, they broke into the monastery, and after tying up FatherPhiloumenos, tortured him to try to force him to recant his Christianity: his eyes were gouged out, and thefingers and thumb of his right hand, with which he made the sign of the Cross, were cut into pieces. He diedas he was struck on the face with a hatchet in the form of a cross, deeply severing his face from hairline tochin, and across his cheeks to his ears. The attackers then defiled the church in abominable ways, leavingZionist symbols and graffiti. No arrests were ever made by the authorities. In 1984, the body of ArchimandritePhiloumenos was found to be incorrupt, as it remains until now, and there have been many reported answersto prayer at his relics. He was glorified by the the Patriarchate of Jerusalem on August 17/30, 2008 and hisfeast is November 16/29. According to his great-niece Maria, his twin brother, Igumen Elpidios, saw him in avision in Greece at the moment of his death, saying, “My brother, they are killing me.”There is also Rabbis for Human Rights, an international group of Jewishrabbis who are working for peace and human rights for Israelis and Palestinians.Not in My Name is a group of international Jewish people who say thatwhat the Jewish government is doing to the Palestinians does not reflect realJudaism. Machsom Watch is a group of Israeli Jewish women who stand at thecheckpoints documentinghuman rights violations.(Machsom means “checkpoint”.)There is also theJewish Voice for Peace,Combatants for Peace,and the Family Forum(made up of Palestinianand Israeli parents whohave lost children to theconflict) and B’Tselem:Palestinian shepherd near Taybeh.The Israeli Center for HumanRights in the Occupied Territories. These small groups give us hope thatsome Jewish people do care about a just peace.However, in an odd turn of events, for the past few decades, we’ve hadmany evangelical Christians in the United States who are very vocal in theirsupport of what the Israeli government is doing to the Palestinians.RTE: How did that come about?Zionist ChristiansDR. KHOURY: Zionism, a political movement founded by Theodore Herzl inthe 19th century to lobby for a secular homeland for the Jews, took on aChristian religious context when 20th-century evangelical Christians, mostlyin America, began linking Zionism to their interpretation of Old Testamentpassages. Now there are many American evangelical Christians, whomwe call Zionist Christians, who believe that modern Israel with the guns,the gunships, the bulldozers, the bombers, is the New Israel of our gospels.According to their thinking, once Israel has a 100% Jewish homeland andgains complete control, then Christ will return. They are trying to hasten theSecond Coming.3031

Road to Emmaus Vol. XI, No. 4 (#43)Taybeh’s PleaWe Orthodox Christians don’t hold this view. Our New Testament Israelis a spiritual homeland because the Messiah came and we have been baptizedinto Christ. Jesus Christ became man through that Hebrew ethnicity,and when we sing and chant in our services about Israel, we Christians, (theChurch) are the New Israel. The New Israel is not the physical Israel with itsguns. We believe that the Lord has only told us to be alert, to watch, to beready, but there is nothing we have to do to bring about Judgment Day. Thatwill come in His own time. Yet this grave misinterpretation drives manyevangelical Christians to blindly support Israeli policy.RTE: According to Donald Wagner, who teaches in Chicago and writes forThe Christian Century, mainstream evangelicals in America number between75 and 100 million. The fundamentalist and dispensationalist evangelicals,who he says are more likely to be Zionists, number between 20 and25 million. Evangelical Protestants and Zionist Jews would seem to makevery strange bedfellows.DR. KHOURY: Yes, they are using each other, because in this extreme evangelicalChristian view, if Israel does gain 100% of the land and Christ comesagain, then the Jewish faith will be wiped out, because the Jews will have toaccept the Messiah or die. So they are using each other for the sake of theirimmediate goals.RTE: Don’t these Zionist Evangelical Christians realize that the Palestiniansare suffering as a result?DR. KHOURY: They don’t realize that all of Palestine is suffering, or even abouttheir brothers and sisters in Christ. So now we have this strange dichotomyof evangelical Zionists supporting Israel’s Palestinian policies, while evensome of the Jewish people in the U.S. do not, as well as some Jewish Israelipeace groups.Prejudices and Realities in Christian-Muslim PalestineRTE: What other things do you see that aren’t always apparent to Christiansabroad? One of our U.S. readers who was at a talk of yours last year saidthat an Orthodox convert raised her hand after you had spoken about thePalestinian Christian plight and said, “Do you mean to tell me there are goodPalestinians?” This level of isolation is sobering.Opposite: Palm Sunday Cross Procession, St. George Orthodox Church, Taybeh, 2008.3233

Road to Emmaus Vol. XI, No. 4 (#43)Taybeh’s PleaDR. KHOURY: This is a stereotype that we Americans especially suffer from.Even in my own Greek family, people said, “Oh, so David became a Christianfor you?” “Isn’t that nice that he became Orthodox for you?” It’s hard forsome members of my family to believe that my husband was born an OrthodoxChristian. His father was born Orthodox, his grandfather was bornOrthodox and served as the parish priest in Taybeh. His Orthodox roots canbe traced back 600 years in the village. Our mental capacity for prejudice isso strong that we can get the facts mixed up.Your average Arab would be, as this woman called them, a “good Arab.”For example, when my son was stuck in Ramallah at midnight because hewas out for a school function and had forgotten his key to our room in thecity, a Muslim schoolmate’s mother went and picked him up and broughthim to their home. If my child woke me at midnight asking if I could pick uphis friend, would I be so generous? I’ve had decades of good relations withmy Muslim neighbors, and my Muslim colleagues are among the first to callme at Christmas to wish me a Blessed Nativity.Nevertheless, we certainly have Islamic fanatics and I don’t want to misleadpeople. In Taybeh we had fourteen houses burned to the ground bya fanatic Muslim mob. For over thirty years there were fair relations betweenMuslims and Christians, but now we live in a country that has no lawand no order. In this case a Muslim family was angry at a Christian manwhom they accused of fathering their unmarried sister’s child. They killedand buried their sister in an “honor killing,” and then came and burnt downthis man’s house, his mother’s house, his brother’s house, and his cousin’shouse. There were twenty-five houses to be burnt on their list; fourteen wereactually burnt, and ours was the fifteenth in line. We were very blessed thatour house was saved. The only reason that these fires couldn’t be containedearlier was because the Palestinian police cannot come to our Palestinianvillage in the West Bank unless they receive permission from the Israeliarmy. If the police had been able to come they probably could have savedthe first house. Certainly they would have saved the other thirteen. But theIsraeli army took six hours to give such permission to the police to come toour area. This was the worst tragedy I have seen in Taybeh.RTE: Why on earth do the Palestinian police need a permit?DR. KHOURY: This is part of the problem with the illegitimate Israeli occupation.By the Oslo Agreement we are divided into sectors A, B, and C, andalthough this is internationally recognized as occupied Palestinian territory,with the Israeli occupation we cannot move between the three sectors. Youcannot pass any checkpoint unless the Israeli soldiers allow you; the Israeliarmy controls every border and everything in between, even the movementsof the Palestinian police and fire trucks.RTE: How do Taybeh’s villagers deal with this?DR. KHOURY: We understand that we are a buffer between crazy people onboth sides, fanatic Israelis and fanatic Muslims who believe in “an eye foran eye and a tooth for a tooth.” We are trying to say not just, “Love yourneighbor,” but “Love your enemy and forgive, as well.” There is no concept offorgiveness in the Muslim and Jewish traditions so we feel that as Christianpeople it is vital that we witness for Christ’s love and peace. If we want God toforgive us, we need to practice forgiveness on earth and to forgive others. Palestinewill never have peace unless there is forgiveness and reconciliation.Everyone in the West knows that Muslim Palestinians have gone into TelAviv and blown themselves up, but do they know that Palestinians never didso before 1994 when an Israeli settler with an assault rifle killed twenty-nineMuslim worshippers and wounded 125 more who were peacefully praying ina mosque in Hebron? People only hear that “Palestinians blow themselvesup.” When something becomes public enough to draw international criticism,Israel says, “Oh, we’re sorry. It was an accident.” Yet when the Palestiniansdo something it’s a terrorist act and they are terrorists.We Palestinian Christians don’t believe in the violent struggle and wedon’t believe in suicide bombings, but because we live the same frustratinglife—our human dignity is violated every single day—we understand whythis leads people to violence. Nevertheless, as Christians we have to be abovethese natural responses, and this is why our presence is so important.The Christian Holy PlacesRTE: Are you worried about the Christian holy places?DR. KHOURY: Yes, I have to say that I am. In 2002, the sixth-century St.Barbara’s Orthodox Chapel, the traditional place of her beheading in the villageof Aboud, was bombed by the Israeli army. It was a known cultural andreligious site, but how many Christians in the West know that one of theirearliest Christian shrines has been blown up? These are Christian holy plac-3435

Road to Emmaus Vol. XI, No. 4 (#43)Taybeh’s Pleaes that are being destroyed, this is a deliberate attempt to uproot Christiansand our holy places from the land that was made sacred by Christ Himself.RTE: When Israel targeted southern Lebanon in 2006, some of the “collateraldamage” included Orthodox Christian churches that had survived fromthe 6th and 7th centuries, through invasions and wars. These churches weremarked on maps as internationally recognized historic and religious sites,and were known as such to the Israelis. A Lebanese Orthodox cleric whowent down to inspect the damage as soon as the cease-fire was announced,said that not only were some of our earliest Christian churches and frescoesdestroyed by bombs, but that many of the churches still standing were desecratedby Israeli troops, with horrible graffiti and destruction of the ancientfrescoed icons. In some churches, Israeli soldiers had defecated on the altars.We don’t hear these things in the news.Sts. Constantine and Helen, St. George,and the Holy Land’s ChurchesRTE: Also, Orthodox monks and nuns at the holy sites in Israel have told methat it is often very difficult to continue as caretakers of these holy places.Utilities can be arbitrarily cut off, permits are refused, monastics and clergyare routinely spat on in public by Orthodox Jews, and so on. Saint Helen,whom you mentioned earlier, seems to be someone we should remember topray to more often. After all, she is the mother of these holy places.DR. KHOURY: Yes, and I always think how, with no technology and lesswealth than today, she built these incredible churches where we can glorifythe birth, the crucifixion, resurrection, and the ascension of Our Lord. Shedid so much to document our Christian roots. Christianity flourished in theHoly Land with St. Constantine the Great and St. Helen, and in fact, did youknow that St. Constantine was the first person to call Palestine ‘the HolyLand’? The 5th and 6th centuries saw a huge pilgrim presence in hundredsof monasteries, whereas now we have monasteries with only one monk, suchas on the Mount of Temptation, to keep the place safe. In the 6th centurythere were over 200 monks at St. Sava; now there are less than twenty. Forthe early Christians it was almost like a fifth gospel—to make this pilgrimageand to walk in the footsteps of Christ.Saint Constantine was also the first Christian ruler to name churches afterSt. George the Great Martyr, which is why the Church in our area is calledSt. George. The original Church of St. George with his relics, is Lydda (Lyd),near the Ben Gurion-Tel Aviv airport. After his martyrdom, his body wasbrought to Lydda because his mother had property where Lyd is today. SaintGeorge is the most beloved saint of the Middle East, and many churches arenamed after him. While we honor him as a saint, Muslims also honor himas a courageous military hero. Because St. George was a high-ranking officerin the Roman army, and they have had some historical experience of his appearingand protecting Christians, Muslims have traditionally been afraid todestroy churches dedicated to him. So, for centuries, many churches in theMiddle East have been named after St. George as a way to protect them. Infact, in our village of Taybeh we have three churches named after St. George:the remains of the fourth-century church built by St. Helen; the church thatwe currently pray in that was also built in the early centuries, destroyed twiceby natural means and rebuilt; and the Greek Catholic Church (Melkite).RTE: I’ve heard stories from Christians from Constantinople, from the 1950’suntil now, of Muslims who have had encounters or dreams of St. George tellingthem to do things to help the Christians. His influence seems to be verymuch alive in the Muslim world.DR. KHOURY: Yes, he’s often called Al-Khader, the Green One. This is aMuslim title for St. George, whom they identify with a mysterious Muslimprophet. The Christian population of the Holy Land did decrease after theMuslim invasions because if villagers didn’t convert to Islam they were oftenkilled. The bloodiest period in the Holy Land, though, was the Crusades,when more Muslims and Jews were slaughtered than were Christians at anyperiod in the history of the Holy Land. The remaining Christian majoritybegan to drop once the Ottoman Empire came to power, which controlledthe Holy Land for over 400 years.RTE: Do you have any idea how Christians lived under the Ottomans?DR. KHOURY: I know that Abdallah, one of my husband’s great-grandfathers,represented the Taybeh community in the Ottoman governing councils as thevillage chief. I’m not exactly sure how Christians were treated while underthe Ottomans, but I know that once the British Mandate was established in1918 there was tolerance for faith. Nevertheless, Palestinian Christians wereusually treated as second-class citizens in each succeeding occupation. Forexample, under the Ottomans if you were accused of a crime the only way to3637

Taybeh’s Pleaescape punishment would be to convert to Islam. In general during the Ottomanperiod if you converted to Islam, you would receive many social benefits,while Christians suffered psychologically, socially, and economically.What Can We Do?RTE: What can we do as English-speaking Orthodox to help the Christians ofPalestine? Do you have projects we can support?DR. KHOURY: I ask people first of all to pray, and then to write to their senatorsand congressmen about the Palestinian situation. Letters do help. Wealso have people in Palestine who are trying to create jobs and assist witheducation to give these people hope to stay here. In the West, however, weoften seem to be “out of sight, out of mind.” In 1998, Fr. Daoud Khoury, thepriest of our village and my husband’s first cousin, sent out letters aboutour situation and our desire to raise funds to build homes for Christians inTaybeh to seventy Orthodoxchurches and people he personallyknew in the U.S., butno one responded.RTE: No one?DR. KHOURY: No one. Then,in 2000, when I lost my job oftraining English teachers foreleven schools because the Israeliarmy had blockaded theroads and I could no longerFr. Daoud Khoury and Taybeh Christians receivingthe Holy Fire, 2009.get to work, I turned to these projects as volunteer work in order to keep mysanity. It was such a violent time that you had to keep your mind busy withsomething productive. I was travelling down roads where Palestinian fighterswere killing Israeli settlers at night, and during the day Israeli settlers wereshooting at Palestinian workers and children on their way to school. Then theIsraeli army came in and occupied all of the Palestinian territories in order todefend these illegal settlements. Now with the wall, it is only violent when theIsraeli army invades Palestinian homes or villages.Opposite: Taybeh Orthodox Church Housing Project.39

Road to Emmaus Vol. XI, No. 4 (#43)Taybeh’s PleaNonetheless, there are charitable projects happening in Palestine, andthere is a lot of work in our village of Taybeh by the Catholic Church andothers. One project that I am very involved in is the housing project of St.George Orthodox Church that I just mentioned. We hope to eventually providehomes for thirty Orthodox Christian families who have neither land nora home, and who need help to marry and start their families. This projectbegan in 1998 as a housing cooperative with each family putting in $100 amonth, but from 2000 on, it was impossible to save such an amount with50-60% unemployment, so people stopped paying into the fund. In 1998,my late father-in-law was instrumental in getting some village land ownedby the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate in Jerusalem turned over to Taybeh’sChurch of St. George, so now we don’t need to buy land and can use donatedfunds for the actual building.We need over $1,000,000 to build the thirty homes. Over the past decadewe’ve raised $145,000, which has been used to build the skeleton units—thebasic foundation, walls, floor, and roof. The first twelve were finished in2006, now we are up to eighteen. The families who live in them are finishingthe homes on their own if they have building skills by putting in doors,windows, kitchens and bathrooms. Some borrow money from organizationsor relatives and three families have already finished theirs and moved in.Anyone interested can give tax-free donations through the Greek OrthodoxMetropolis of Boston, and all donations go directly to the housing constructionwhen they are transferred to our church in Taybeh. I don’t receive acommission or salary for the fund-raising or administration.RTE: $145,000 isn’t a large amount for ten years. You don’t seem to havefound it easy to fund-raise.DR. KHOURY: Not very easy at all. My Catholic and Protestant colleagues inPalestine come to America and raise $50,000 in one week for similar projects,but it took me six years to raise the first $50,000. I’ve visited more than125 churches now, and I’d say that less than a handful want to keep the connectiongoing. While I was raising enough to build the first twelve skeletonhomes, Catholic colleagues of mine raised $3 million for a project in theneighboring village of Birzeit which went up before my eyes. Fifty Christianfamilies moved into finished apartment units.The lack is perhaps more my failure at not knowing how to effectivelyfund-raise. I simply do not know enough organizations that will help Orthodoxcauses. The Virginia H. Farah Foundation is the only large supporterthat I have been able to connect to my community. I’ve canvassed Orthodoxchurches in the U.S. giving talks for years and I believe that the Orthodoxare very generous people, but I find that it’s a struggle to convince them thatwe should care about Christians in the Holy Land. Some people say, “Well,you’ve been fighting for thousands of years. If Christians are disappearing,why should we support a project that has no future?” My point is that wewant to keep the small Christian community in Palestine. Even though weare not big in numbers, it is important that there are Christians in the placewhere Christ was born and resurrected.I remember when I started asking for help, people used to say things like,“How do I know you aren’t going to give this money to terrorists?”RTE: That’s insulting.DR. KHOURY: Yes, but I understand people’s worries because our world is socorrupt. When I set up the fund with the blessing of Metropolitan Methodiosthrough the Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Boston in 2003, I stipulated thatif we didn’t raise enough for even one house, I would personally make up thedifference from the proceeds of my “Christina” books to build that house.The project has not been a failure: $145,000 is a start and it gives thesefamilies hope.RTE: What are your Christina books?DR. KHOURY: This is a little book series for children about a faithful Orthodoxchild named Christina, that I hope will give people simple language totalk to their children about Our Lord Jesus Christ and the Orthodox faith. Iuse the book profits to pay for my travels, for our church web site, for thankyouletters, and for stamps, postcards and brochures that promote the Taybehprojects. The profits also sponsor five or more children every year at theTaybeh Orthodox School.Another Taybeh project that I’m involved in is a fund for local scholarships.We are trying to set up an endowment fund. In 2006, our sister church, theAnnunciation Greek Orthodox Cathedral in Norfolk, Virginia raised moneywhich we invested in order to use the interest to provide a year’s collegescholarship to the graduating senior from our St. George Orthodox Church.If there is more than one student, we split it between them. In Palestine,tuition is about $2,000 a year at a local college. We are doing this to en-4041

Road to Emmaus Vol. XI, No. 4 (#43)Taybeh’s Pleacourage our young people to stay and study in Palestine because if they aregiven scholarships abroad, they often simply don’t return. We are losing ourbrightest students.Our strongest sister-church relationship is with St. George Greek OrthodoxChurch of Bethesda, Maryland. Recently, we’ve also received wonderfulsupport from Holy Trinity Cathedral in Salt Lake City, Utah; and AnnunciationChurch in Little Rock, Arkansas has raised the most funds out of all theparishes I have visited, giving us over $10,000 on their own for our housingproject. One of the churches on our list which has never forgotten us is Sts.Constantine and Helen in Merrillville, Indiana. Many individuals have alsohelped us, and I’m sorry I can’t name them all here, but I do want to mentionMarilyn Rouvelas, who has been a great encouragement to me personally incontinuing my ministry.The other things I would like to ask of Orthodox Christians is to comevisit us! The villagers can’t come to you, but your presence in Bethlehem, inBeit Sehour, in Taybeh, is a great support and blessing. We have thousandsof visitors annually. If you come to Taybeh, I will be very happy to give youa tour of our village and of the Taybeh Brewery. You can contact me aboutvisiting Taybeh at khourymaria@hotmail.com. Even if I am not in town mybrother-in-law Nadim and my niece Madees, also a Hellenic College graduate,give tours daily except Sunday from 8am to 4 pm. The number is (970)(972 from the U.S. only) 2 289 8868.says, “Love one another.” Another thing that helps me is Mother Theresa’ssaying that “God is not calling us to be successful, He’s calling us to be faithful,”and that keeps me feeling that these little projects are important forthemselves. I have to focus my energy on the fact that this is what Christis asking me to do. Also, God sends his angels to take care of us and whenpeople come into my life and give me a good word of inspiration, it’s as ifthey’ve given me a million dollars to keep faith with what we are doing.My other great support is my husband and our family; this work actuallybegan when we met at Hellenic College/Holy Cross. In an Orthodox marriageyou help each other on the path to salvation, and I’ve experienced thetruth of this in my life.The most important thing is to give Christians hope that they can stay inPalestine, to try to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Peace could come,and we hope that it is God’s will that Christians, even in small numbers, willstay in the Holy Land. When the patriarch’s representative brings the HolyFire to Ramallah on Holy Saturday (because most Palestinian Christians areunable to receive permits to go to the Holy Sepulchre) people gather fromall over to take the flame back to their churches to celebrate this wonderfulmiracle: that Christ is Risen and is in our midst. We believe in the livingGod, and that it is important to have indigenous Christians in the Holy Landto proclaim, “Al-Masih-Qam! Hakkan Qam!”—“Christ is Risen! Truly He isRisen!”RTE: There are also many Orthodox churches that have prayer groups. Weneed to put Taybeh, Bethlehem, Ramallah—all of the Christians in Palestineand all of those suffering unjustly to our prayer lists.DR. KHOURY: In 2002 when things were so incredibly difficult, people wouldwrite to tell me that they had prayed and I could feel it. I believe that Goddoes have a plan for us, and when people pray for us, we stay on the path andgain inner peace. It’s also my Christian duty to pray at the Holy Sepulchre,at Bethlehem, and in the other holy sites for everyone who has helped orprayed for us.RTE: How else do you survive psychologically? How do you keep hoping?DR. KHOURY: I shut myself in this small little world, and tell myself that it’simportant in these families to have decent housing and that the students goto college. This is a way for me to obey the Gospel teaching when the Lord4243

NaturalConception,Natural Birth:The New Hopefor InfertilityWith rising rates of infertility, many couples have turned to assisted reproductive technologiesfor help to conceive. In response, Melanie Sabtchev, an Orthodox natural fertility care practitioner,describes the medical, ethical, and spiritual problems of many of these technologies, as wellas the recent advances in our understanding of conception. As an experienced Creighton Methodfertility counselor practicing in Boston and now expecting her own first child, Melanie speakswith vigor and warmth about natural fertility awareness as an effective, healthy, and spirituallysound alternative for couples hoping to conceive.RtE: Melanie, thank you for coming. Can you please tell us about yourselfand how you began to work with natural fertility care?Melanie: After becoming interested in natural family planning and infertility,I studied at the Pope Paul VI Institute in Omaha, Nebraska in 2008-2009 to learn the Creighton Method and become a fertility care practitioner.I had been ill myself and a co-worker recommended that I use this chartingmethod to help figure out what was wrong. I found it not only completelyhelpful, but fascinating. Since my training, along with teaching high school,I’ve been a clinical practitioner teaching couples how to achieve or avoidpregnancy naturally.Opposite: Melanie Sabtchev.3

Road to Emmaus Vol. XIII, No. 2 (#49)Natural Conception, Natural BirthRtE: Before discussing the ethical and spiritual aspects of fertility treatments,perhaps we can begin by describing these widely-used medical technologies.Many Orthodox Christians share our western society’s generalbelief that both fertility and birth control drugs and procedures are relativelybenign, or at least safer than they were decades ago, and see no reason todeviate from the regular medical route. Is it true that there has been a rise ininfertility in America and Europe, and why might we want to consider usingmore natural means to conceive?Melanie: Infertility has become an epidemic, particularly unexplained infertility.Statistics range from 10-13% of women age 15-44 who have beenunable to conceive or to carry a child to term after a year of unprotected intercourse.Two very obvious reasons are that women are now delaying marriageand childbirth. Fertility takes a distinct plunge at age 35—but mostwomen aren’t given even this simple information, certainly not in school.We think that we have many years to have a child, because we see womenwho are forty and pregnant, but we don’t realize that this may be the resultof extensive fertility treatments. This is the easy first piece of the puzzle, thatwe are delaying marriage and childbirth.There can also be infertility problems with the husband. Roughly, 30%of infertility problems can be traced to the mother, 30% to the father, andthe remaining 40% to a combination of problems with both spouses orunknown causes.No one can quite put their finger on the unexplained aspects and there is alot of conjecture about whether it could be nutrition, particularly the estrogenand antibiotics that we are pumping into animals. Is it possible that the foodwe are ingesting is making us so sick that we can’t reproduce? Another obviousplace to look is at the continued use of hormonal birth control pills andthe long-term effects they have on a woman and her reproductive system.The New Birth ControlRtE: Hasn’t the birth control pill changed quite a lot since it first came on themarket in the 1960’s?Melanie: Yes. In the beginning, it only inhibited ovulation and the activeingredient was progestin, a synthetic version of the natural progesterone inthe body. Since then, they’ve added estrogen to stop break-through bleeding,so now you have these two primary female sex hormones coursing throughthe blood system, although in a different way than the body uses them.Also, now we have the mini-pill, a combination of hormones that inhibitovulation. Should the woman ovulate anyway, a secondary mechanism ofthe pill thickens the cervical mucus so that the sperm will never reach theegg for fertilization. If both mechanisms should fail and the sperm meets theegg, there is a third obstacle in that the lining of the uterus has been madeso thin that the fertilized zygote—the earliest developmental phase of theembryo—cannot implant. This is why many people consider the pill to bean abortifacient, because it causes the expulsion of the fertilized egg. Thisis what the “morning-after” pill did. Initially, the pill didn’t function in thesame way.Some doctors will probably say, “Oh, that will never happen, the suppressionof ovulation and the thickening of the cervical mucus will prevent pregnancy,but I would ask, “Why wouldn’t you err on the side of caution? If youknow that this can be a mechanism of the pill, even if it happens rarely, whywould you want to consent?Even more fundamentally, the pill gives an impression of normalcy. This isvery illusory, because it appears that you still have your “menstrual period”each month, but this is not true menstruation because you haven’t ovulated.The placebo hormones you are taking simply cause the artificially scant uterinelining to shed. Although it gives an impression that you are having aperiod and that things are normal and going along the way they always have,that’s not true.When the birth control pill Seasonique came out, enabling women to only“menstruate” four times a year, there were mixed reviews. Some womensaid, “Great, I hardly ever have to have my period again,” but the truth isthat they were never having their period to begin with if they were on the pill.Other people said, “No, that’s just so freaky, you can’t mess with nature likethat,” but likewise, they didn’t realize that these women hadn’t been menstruatingat all.RtE: What are the other health risks of these new pills?Melanie: We always knew that thrombosis was one of the possible side effects,but now with the lower dosage pills such as Yaz, the risk of blood clotsis about 50% greater than with regular birth control pills, and they aren’tsure why. There is now a class action lawsuit against this particular pill. Also,45

Road to Emmaus Vol. XIII, No. 2 (#49)Natural Conception, Natural Birthin 2006, a meta-analysis of twenty studies published showed that there is a50% increased cancer risk for women who have never been pregnant andwho take the pill for five continuous years. 1Some women have begun using birth control injections, which aren’t asreliable as the mini-pill and they also have serious side effects. There are alsobirth-control implants such as Depro-Provera, that slowly release artificialbirth-control hormones into your body. Along with the usual complicationsfrom birth control hormones, you can have muscular atrophy around thesite of implantation, and quite often part of the implant breaks off inside thebody, because the body is trying to reject the foreign substance.A few other things about birth control pills and injections: recent studieshave now linked the pill with memory loss. In addition, they’ve found thatwomen who are on the pill are less sexually satisfied than women who arenot. This information goes along with a bizarre study that was very muchin the news last year, showing that the pill affects women’s perception ofmen. Women on the pill choose more feminine-type partners—men who aregentler, whose facial features are more feminine, rather than burly masculinemen.RtE: This is all chilling. What has happened with the old copper IUD’s,the intrauterine devices that debilitated the sperm and irritated the uterinewall to prevent the fertilized egg from implanting? In the 1970’s and 80’s, wesaw many cases of infection and uterine perforation.Melanie: The copper IUD’s are still around, but since then we’ve seen a newgeneration of devices. The most popular right now is Mirena, which not onlyacts as an IUD, but releases progesterone to inhibit ovulation. It’s been veryheavily marketed on television and in magazines as being an “easy” form ofbirth control, but the problems are still the same as in the 1970’s. Not only1 In a July 29th 2005 press release, the World Health Organization declared that the use of estrogen-progestogenoral contraceptives increases the risk of breast, cervix, and liver cancer. The data was presented by aworking group of 21 scientists from 8 countries convened by the cancer research agency of the World HealthOrganization: “IARC Monographs Programme Finds Combined Estrogen-Progestogen Contraceptives andMenopausal Therapy are Carcinogenic to Humans,” WHO-International Agency for Research on Cancer,Press Release 167 (29 July 2005).More recently, the journal of the Mayo Clinic published an article entitled “Oral Contraceptive Use as aRisk Factor for Pre-menopausal Breast Cancer: A Meta-analysis.” It reveals that women who took the pillprior to having their first child show an increased risk of breast cancer. This increase was especially steepamong younger women. Author Chris Kahlenborn, M.D., concludes, “Anyone who is prescribing oral contraceptiveshas a duty to tell women that 21 of 23 studies showed an increased risk.” Cf. Mayo Clinic Proceedings,October 2006; 81(10): 1290-1302.can you become infected or have uterine perforation, but in some cases IUDuse has resulted in permanent infertility. There are many complications—the most common being rejection, irregular bleeding, and anemia—andabout 43% of women have them taken out in the first year because of thesecomplications. Medical staff will often tell you that an IUD won’t cause anabortion, because they consider abortion to be the expulsion of an implantedembryo. Orthodox, however, believe that life begins at conception, so thepurposeful destruction of a fertilized egg is a grave problem.The television advertisements for IUD’s are very alluring. They show afrazzled mother with a three-year old who has just spilled his finger paintssaying, “I’d like another child, but not now!” These ads play on women’s feelingsof being overtaxed, but at the end, you hear them list all of the problemsassociated with the product.RtE: I wonder how many Christian women realize that this possibility ofabortion is a component of the newer pills and of the IUD? Of about a dozenyoung women I recently asked, not one knew this.Melanie: By virtue of where I work and the circles that I move in, I findmost people interested and receptive to the information, but I’m not surethat many walk away willing to make a change, because it’s such a mind-bogglingproblem. You don’t know what to do and you don’t know where to turn.The idea of relying on a natural form of birth control is frightening for alot of women and especially for their spouses. The women almost always feelthat the responsibility for planning their family is on them. They are the oneswho have been taking the pill, buying the spermicide or condoms, or receivingthe injections, and the man just sort of assumes that they will continueto be responsible for it.If you say to them, “Why don’t you learn your cycles, the rhythm of yourbody, and figure out when you can have relations and when you can’t?,” thisis just one more thing you add to a busy woman’s schedule. It seems so overwhelming.But when they actually enter into a natural system they come torealize how beautiful their cycles are and develop an intricate knowledge ofthe overall health of their body. This is freeing in the end, but it can be anoverwhelming prospect at first.67

Road to Emmaus Vol. XIII, No. 2 (#49)Natural Conception, Natural BirthIntrauterine Insemination (IUI) and In Vitro Fertilization (IVF)RtE: Before we explore the details of the Creighton Method, can we first talkabout the medical treatments and technology that are offered to women whowant to have a baby but haven’t been able to conceive naturally? Almost allof us have friends or relatives who have used these procedures.Melanie: The pill has been around for fifty years, so we have roughly fiftyyears of data. The first child born of in vitro fertilization (IVF), the first“test tube baby”, was in 1978, so our data here is more limited. The moderntendency is to use birth control to suppress an entire healthy system of ourbody, and then when we decide we want to have children and that systemno longer functions correctly, we put our cycles into overdrive by opting forintrauterine (“artificial”) insemination (IUI) or in vitro fertilization (IVF).This is not what nature intended, nor is it the restoration of the systemto a healthy functioning system; it is suppression or hyperdrive. By offeringthese technologies we are not being true physicians to these women andrestoring them to health; we are just trying to get their body to work longenough in the way we want it to, so that it gives the desired outcome for acertain number of years.One of the hardest things for us to realize is that we cannot replicate whatthe human body does. Conception is a very complicated process that wedon’t yet perfectly understand, and there are many mechanisms in the humanbody that allow or prevent conception. For conception to occur youhave to have good eggs, good sperm, and good cervical fluid for the sperm tolive in that will allow them to make it into the Fallopian tube. If any of theseprimary factors are off, there will be problems. Both intrauterine insemination(IUI) and in vitro fertilization (IVF) were developed to bypass the body’snatural safeguards. IUI is where you take the semen, select the best sperm,wash them, and inject them directly into the woman’s uterus. Usually thewoman has already been given a number of fertility drugs that will make thewomb more hospitable to the implantation of the embryo.The other technology we often hear about is in vitro fertilization (IVF).IVF is used for unexplained infertility or subfertility issues, such as infrequentovulation or a low sperm count. Essentially, the ovaries are hyperstimulatedwith hormones into creating ten to twenty mature follicles. Theythen put the woman under light sedation and extract the eggs from the ovarywith a syringe-type instrument. The eggs are placed in a petri dish with somesperm from the donor father in a nutrient-rich fluid. This petri dish is thenput into an incubator, and they wait for the egg and sperm to meet. Once theeggs are fertilized, they remove the zygotes (the embryos) and implant theminto the woman’s uterine lining. IVF providers try to cover up the mechanismby pretending that it’s natural; they make it seem natural because theend is a child.Another ethical problem that many couples face with IVF is that if the husbandor wife is truly infertile, do they opt for donors (a third party supplyingthe egg or the sperm) to create the embryo? This isn’t a health risk, althoughit’s very much a moral and spiritual problem.It isn’t hard for men to donate their sperm, but for a woman it is very difficultto donate eggs and they are saying now that human eggs are the mostexpensive commodity on earth, because they are so incredibly small. Youpay an average of $10,000 to a woman donor who fits all of your desires andwishes in order to harvest her eggs. On all sides, it is the misuse of a humanperson—the couple, the donor, the child. You are injecting this woman full ofdrugs that are hyper-stimulating her ovaries to harvest her eggs, and in somecases these women are later unable to have their own children. You see thisall the time on Craig’s List or in the newspaper. “Are you a healthy femalewho is 21 to 29 years old? Do you have a college degree? Call this numberand you can make $7,000.” It’s a frightening prospect for the physical, psychologicaland spiritual health of the woman.On the other side you have couples who in some cases have to flip througha book and look at pictures and statistics of these women. In a certain senseit’s adulterous, but in another way it’s worse because they are choosing thethird party together. “I’d really like it if she was Polish because my grandmotherwas Polish.” Again, you realize how unnatural this is and how muchstress it places on the couple.RtE: Surely this has been ethically challenged.Melanie: Yes. Roman Catholics and many Orthodox have problems withthese technologies, even with intrauterine insemination, including whetherthere are morally licit ways to obtain sperm. The moral problems are muchmore serious with IVF.89

Road to Emmaus Vol. XIII, No. 2 (#49)Natural Conception, Natural BirthRtE: Not to mention that in IVF the lab techs are making the choice as towhich eggs and sperm to incubate rather than letting God’s providence andthe body do so.Melanie: Yes, in IVF they harvest what they think are the most mobile,regular-looking sperm, but we know so little about the intricacies of conceptionthat it might actually be the sperm with the irregular head shape whoare naturally fertilizing the eggs. We don’t know anything for sure. Mobilityand regularity as a guide to health is just a best guess.Also, in regard to ovulation, at any given time in a woman’s fertile periodthere are several possible follicles with eggs. We don’t know how or why thebody chooses that one mature egg to ripen into a follicle and then burst andovulate. It’s a complicated process that we simply don’t understand. Whenyou artificially hyper-stimulate the ovaries to release more eggs, rather thanone mature follicle bursting and one egg ovulating, that one ovary may haveten mature follicles that you then harvest out while the woman is sedated.We don’t have enough reliable data to say that this is safe, so this is a sub-parresult for the woman and, because of the risks for children born through IVF,a sub-par result for the child.IVF and IUI are simply imperfect: we can’t replicate what nature doesthrough the cervical fluid, through the contractions of the Fallopian tube,through the prostaglandins—it’s a very complicated process. Nor havewe been able to perfectly replicate the way the sperm meets the egg andbreaks through the shell, which is extremely complex. Now scientistsare wondering if there is some sort of reaction between the enzymes onthe sperm and the cervical fluid that allows for conception in a way thatproduces a healthier child.Also, under a microscope, the cervical fluid looks like perfect little channelsor superhighways. With natural conception, the sperm travel thesehighways to make it through the cervix and into the Fallopian tube to meetthe egg. When the estrogen drops sharply after ovulation, the hormonethat takes over is progesterone, which is responsible for the build-up of theuterine tissue. Now, instead of the perfect little highways, the cervical fluidlooks like a brick wall. The sperm can’t penetrate because this is the body’snatural way of making sure that sperm will not meet an egg that is not fresh.Both vitro fertilization and intrauterine insemination bypass this naturalsafeguard.Nor do we completely understand how the fertilized egg manages to reachthe Fallopian tube. Even if one Fallopian tube is damaged and a womanovulates from the ovary on that side, the egg can somehow find its wayover to the Fallopian tube on the undamaged side. The human body knowsinfinitely more than we could ever see in a laboratory with the best scientistsin the world.RtE: When you read about conception, and the incredible odds against asingle sperm and egg meeting, it seems very providential.Melanie: Yes, it appears that less than ten sperm out of millions make itthrough the cervix into the Fallopian tube, and only one of them is waitingto meet the egg.To touch on the spiritual angle, I like the way that the Orthodox bioethicist,Metropolitan Nikolaos (Hatzinikolaou) of Mesogaia and Lavreotiki speaksabout conception. He says that it is very disturbing to take the creation of lifeout of the warmth of the marital bed and place it in the coldness of a laboratorypetri dish. 2 This resonates with all of us; it’s unnatural to introduce athird party into the reproductive act.RtE: In IVF, do they implant one or many fertilized eggs?Melanie: Typically because it is so expensive (about $12,000 - $17,000 pertry depending on where you live) more than one embryo is implanted to insuresuccess. It is normal to implant four to six.RtE: This is why we hear of women who have used fertility drugs or IVF havingmultiple children. What if all of the embryos implant?Melanie: Then they will urge selective abortion. A recent dramatic exampleof this is the well-known American “Octamom” who had eight healthyembryos that survived the initial implantation. When they asked her toselectively abort most of the babies, she refused. If you have been waitingfor a child and someone tells you that the best chance is this very healthylookingegg that has just been implanted, you will tend to believe them.2 “The Embryo and its Development in Regard to its Formation as a Complete Human Being”, Conference onthe Church and Bioethics: The Word of Science and the Word of Religion, Chambésy, France, 11-15 September2002. Available online at: http://www.bioethics.org.gr/en/index.htmlA more recent article, “The Greek Orthodox Position on the Ethics of Assisted Reproduction” can beviewed at http://www.bioethics.org.gr/MMLN%20assisted%20repro.pdf1011

Road to Emmaus Vol. XIII, No. 2 (#49)Natural Conception, Natural BirthThe clinic then expects you to go through a routine selective abortion, whichthey term “reduction”. Left-over fertilized embryos in the petri dish that are notimplanted are either discarded or frozen. If you create an excess of embryos,what happens if the woman feels she can’t have more children or doesn’thave the funds to go through another round of implantation? Now youessentially have frozen children that are just left waiting.RtE: How long do they keep these embryos?Melanie: It depends. The labs only store them for so long, because eventuallythey will become too old to be implanted. One of the issues that theCatholic Church is now dealing with is whether there should be embryoadoption—there are Catholic women who are offering to take these frozenembryos and carry them to birth, in order to save these lives.RtE: To add to the dilemma, in her talk at the November, 2011 OrthodoxChristian Association of Medicine, Psychology and Religion (OCAMPR) Conferenceon “The Science and Theology of Conception”, Dr. Gayle Woloschak,an Orthodox professor from the Center for Genetic Medicine at NorthwesternUniversity, mentioned that even in good labs with careful scientists andback-up refrigeration systems, occasionally the entire system shuts down.It’s not really possible to guarantee that the frozen embryos will be kept safe.Melanie: I would also like to hear more about the defects of children bornof IVF. Some advocates of IVF claim that the defects aren’t serious, whenactually they are. One study focuses on children born with Beckwith-WiedemannSyndrome, a gene alteration characterized by a 15% risk of childhoodcancers of the kidney, liver or muscles and an overgrowth of cells of the kidneyand other tissues. Other possible abnormalities include a large tongue,abdominal wall defects, and low levels of blood-sugar in infancy. 3RtE: So they are saying that approximately 15% of the children with thissyndrome will develop childhood cancer?Melanie: Yes. The normal risk of childhood cancer, by the way, is less thanone in 10,000. Now the interesting thing was that there were so many mothersin this study whose children had been born via IVF that they decidedamong themselves to ask the researchers if there was a connection. Theirquestion launched a reassessment of over half a dozen large studies that concludedthat it was ten times more likely that parents who had used IVF orrelated methods would see this syndrome in their children.Another aberration that has been detected is the Angelman Syndrome,which involves severe mental retardation, motor defects, an inability tospeak, but accompanied thankfully by a cheerful disposition. Researchershave begun to believe that your chance of having either syndrome is exponentiallymuch greater if you use IVF.Also, meta-analyses of many individual studies reveal that IVF recipientshave significantly higher rates for stillbirths, premature births, gestationaldiabetes, preeclampsia, placenta previa, vaginal bleeding, cesarean sections,and so on. 4 This shows that not only the infant’s health is compromised,but the mother’s as well. A natural conception in the body is the far moreloving option.RtE: I suppose that people might answer that by asking, “Well, you tell usthat life on any terms is better than aborting a child. Why wouldn’t conceivinga child through IVF be better than no life at all, even if there are theserisks?” The problem is not the desire for the child, but that we are manipulatingthe natural process and not leaving it up to God’s providence. We alsoknow there are many children needing adoption. Do you have any idea ofhow many people were involved with IVF last year?Melanie: In 1996, there were 50,000 IVF attempts in the U.S. By 2002 itwas 100,000 per year and it is undoubtedly much higher now. The internetsite www.ivf.net claims that 3 million IVF babies have been born worldwide.If this is true, many more couples have tried.RtE: What is the rate of IVF success?Melanie: On average, about 30%. Many of our Creighton Method doctorstake women who have had failed IVF attempts. Our success rate is as high as30% for these women who have previously failed with IVF.RtE: This all sounds like a horror movie. It’s so beyond anything we dreamtof a few decades ago.3 “The Risk of Major Birth Defects after Itracytoplasmic Sperm Injection and In Vitro Fertilization”, The NewEngland Journal of Medicine, Vol. 346, #10, March 7, 2002, pgs. 725-730.4 “Perinatal Outcomes in Singletons Following In Vitro Fertilization: A Meta-Analysis” The American Journalof Obstetricians and Gynecologists, March 2004, 103 (3): 551-63.1213

Road to Emmaus Vol. XIII, No. 2 (#49)Natural Conception, Natural BirthMelanie: In England they are now petitioning to have the first embryo fromthree different parents implanted in a woman. Because there were some issueswith the mother’s eggs, they have spliced the genetic material from herand two other people, and are asking to have that egg implanted. Where doesit all end?RtE: In That Hideous Strength, the third volume of C.S. Lewis’ fictional trilogy,Lewis reminds us that all children are the result of God’s providenceand ancient human lineages from centuries back. Lewis was gravely troubledby the idea of artificial birth control in the 1940’s; but we are light years beyondthat.Melanie: You become numb to it. You hear of IVF, IUI, and frozen embryosand you don’t think of them as babies anymore. Nor do you think aboutnatural reproduction or about the problems of artificial conception. It’s justan obscure procedure.As former embryos ourselves, we’ve been blessed to pass through the vulnerablestage of life. Now in our pumped-up hubris, we look at embryos whoare still in that vulnerable stage and we attempt to manipulate them. All ofthis seems like a stubborn insistence on our own will and not an acceptanceof God’s will. It’s really egoism at its height. I think that is the real problem.RtE: Yes, what is the Old Testament quote from Jeremiah? “Before I formedyou in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart….” Theformation is almost accidental to God conceiving of you in His mind.I also think that even if we haven’t been involved with abortion or IVF, weare all complicit in these things simply by being part of a society where thesedrugs, tests, and technologies are so readily available. Many of us made suchdecisions in our youth, or are caught up in these fertility technologies nowthrough lack of knowledge. It’s important to support, console, and educateone another, and that we seek forgiveness.Stem Cell ResearchRtE: Can we talk a little about the problem of stem cell research? I heardrecently that labs no longer use aborted fetal material for research, but don’tthe stem cell lines that they are working on now originate from this originalmisuse?Melanie: The only real successful cures we have from stem cell researchare from adult stem cells because they are very stable and fully grown. Thesewould include adult nasal epithelium cells and cells from the umbilical cord,which is also made up of adult stem cells. The embryonic stem cells are incrediblyenergetic and difficult to control, as are the cells from mice.RtE: Why would they have used the embryonic stem cells in the first place?Melanie: Because of their nascent nature they are more changeable, so youcan use them for a variety of purposes. I heard a very incisive talk on fetalstem cell research from Father Tad Pacholczyk, a Catholic priest and wellknownbioethicist who argues that when bald eagles began to be an endangeredspecies, the U.S. government passed a law not only making it a crimeto kill a bald eagle, but even to overturn a bald eagle’s nest or to harm theeggs in any other way. He says, “This is a very reasonable law because someoneis killing what will become a bald eagle, but somehow we’ve lost sight ofthat kind of simplicity when it comes to human beings.” If you look at constitutionallaw and apply the law that already exists for the animal kingdomto people, the result is very clear.Also, at the 2011 OCAMPR conference, Professor Timothy Patitsas spokeof the Orthodox tradition that the passionless embrace of Joachim and Annaaffected the disposition of the Theotokos. If that’s true I wonder how thedisposition of these children is affected by being conceived in a test-tube ora petri dish. Not that we don’t love these children; however it came about,their existence is a blessing. This goes back to the earlier point that you aretaking the warm embrace of the marital act out of the bedroom and puttingit in the cold sterile laboratory. There is something startling about this, and Ithink we’ve just been numbed to think it is natural. The couple that is seekingassisted reproduction has obviously been struggling with infertility andthis can be a very great cross to bear.RtE: What would you say if someone were to ask you, “I have this IVF child,are you telling me that this wasn’t right?”Melanie: That happened to me in a very unexpected way with some newacquaintances of mine. A couple that I like very much revealed that theirchild had been born of IVF. I was taken aback but tried not to let it show asthis was no place to bring these issues up. She is their only child and she’s awonderful girl. I’m very happy that she is in the world and I have a wonder-1415

Road to Emmaus Vol. XIII, No. 2 (#49)Natural Conception, Natural Birthful relationship with her. Certainly, I rejoice that she was born and I treasureher, but that doesn’t mean that I would recommend IVF to my sister or mybest friend.Screening for AbnormalitiesRtE: Can we talk now about pregnancy screening, procedures and choices,and the moral questions involved. What would you alert us to?Melanie: Four of the most common screening tools are ultrasounds, amniocentesis,chorionic villus sampling, and blood samples taken from theumbilical cord. Ultrasound screenings, where they bounce sound waves offof the baby and project a picture onto a screen, is a relatively safe procedure.Amniocentesis is where they insert a rather large needle through themother’s abdomen into the uterus to take a sample of the amniotic fluid thatsurrounds the baby. You can test that fluid for certain genetic defects—oneof the most common tests that everyone knows is for Down’s Syndrome.(By the way, about 5% of women are told that they are at risk for carrying aDown’s Syndrome baby, but the actual incidence is much, much lower.) Theresults of amniocentesis are not always conclusive, and they can be misleading.The procedure itself carries a risk of miscarriage by hitting the babywith the needle, infection of the amniotic fluid, or rupture of the sac. Threerecent studies from 2000-2006 claim the risk of miscarriage as a result ofamniocentesis is as high as 1 in 150, 5 and that more babies are hit by theneedle than actually die. Chorionic villus sampling (CVS), where they takecells from the placenta, runs a 1 in 100 risk of miscarriage, and the risk ofmiscarriage after blood samples taken from the umbilical cord (PUBS) is ashigh as 1 in 33. 6 7I had a friend who refused to have an amniocentesis done, and when thehospital staff asked, “Why in the world would you refuse?” she said, “Well,I’m going to love my child no matter what happens.” Their reply was, “If you5“Mid-Trimester Amniocentesis Fetal Loss Rate,” (Committee Statement approved by the Society of Obstetriciansand Gynaecologists of Canada) Canadian Journal of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, 2007, 29:7, pg.586-590. http://www.sogc.org/guidelines/documents/gui194CPG0707.pdf6 Mayo Clinic report: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/down-syndrome/DS00182/DSECTION=testsand-diagnosis7 Northwestern University Medical Faculty Foundation report: https://www.nmff.org/ClinicalGenetics/services.asp?id=89refuse the amniocentesis in our hospital you must go through three hoursof mandatory counseling if you want to deliver here.” This was simply forrefusing the procedure. The idea that she would love her child regardlessof whether it was mentally handicapped or not meant that she had to go forcounseling.In genetic counseling, women are often advised to abort the baby, or inthe case of IVF and the implanting of multiple embryos, to selectively savethe one that looks the strongest and abort the weaker ones. This is a veryutilitarian approach, and as it turns out, doctors can be wrong about suspectedabnormalities. A lot of children who look as if they are going to havegenetic abnormalities based on the ultrasound picture simply don’t. Theyare perfectly healthy. We trace patterns by ultrasound and predict what mayhappen, but it’s not a certainty. We all know mothers who were counselednot to have the baby and now that child might be an honor student or one ofour good friends.RtE: We also know that God’s grace changes things. We need to pray forhealthy children.Melanie: Yes. We have a host of intercessors in the saints who can takeour cause to the throne of Christ. That is something that we should certainlynever forget, that miracles can and do continue to happen.Another friend just told me today that on her ultrasound last week, itlooked as if there was an enlarged ventricle in her daughter’s brain, and thearea connecting the two spheres of the brain also seemed to be enlarged. Shehad to come to grips with the possibility that her child might be retarded,so that night she went to bed and had a good cry. When she awoke she didmorning prayers with her son and found that the saints of the day were ayoung brother and sister. She mentally asked these saints to pray to God forher baby. When she went back for her next ultrasound, the doctor asked, “Doyou know why you are here?” She explained why, and he answered, “We seenone of those problems now.”RtE: So either you had a bad ultrasound reader or a miraculous healing. Eitherway she didn’t need that kind of stress. A friend of mine was told fromher first ultrasound to her last that she was absolutely having a little girl, butwhen the baby was born, it was a boy!1617

Road to Emmaus Vol. XIII, No. 2 (#49)Natural Conception, Natural BirthMelanie: That’s a classic example. If they can make this kind of mistakeon something that is so apparent as external body parts, how on earth canthey be so sure of all of the so-called problems? Even when problems areproperly diagnosed, it is becoming a new social stigma to have a child who isimperfect, or even poor. We’ve begun putting those problems above familialrelationships and happiness.I recently read an article where a woman was targeting the political andreligious right, saying that they were trying to infringe on her reproductiverights, among which she listed sex selection, which would involve either sexselection through IVF or, after she is pregnant, gender screening via ultrasound,and abortion if the sex of the child is not what she wants. Genderscreening is now outlawed in India as it has had a devastating effect on theirpopulation, and there are many Indian men now having to look for brides inother countries. In China there are over a million missing girls for the samereason. Often you can’t see the full effect of sin and its consequences for ageneration or two down the road.I’m a far cry from the hippie/naturalist type, but I do have to say that Ihad a breast mass extraction because they saw something on the ultrasoundand thought it was cancerous, which it wasn’t. Now all of the latest informationcoming out is saying that women without a positive family history forbreast cancer shouldn’t be screened before age forty because they end uphaving unnecessary biopsies and surgeries. Although I would want ultrasoundsduring pregnancy because I’m a worrier, it certainly can also placeundue stress on you.I want to say clearly that I would never tell anyone not to get an ultrasound,because there is so much valuable information that can be gained.You can see if the baby is growing at a proper rate and it is usually a great joyfor the mother to hear her baby’s heartbeat for the first time and to watchhim move. Used correctly, ultrasounds can pick up many problems. Withearly diagnosis we can also do surgery in utero and have a baby continue togrow and be carried full term that otherwise might not have made it. Thereare many blessings to ultrasound.RtE: What surgeries can be done in utero? It’s amazing to think about.Melanie: They’ve done heart surgeries and all sorts of things. Perhapsyou’ve seen that famous picture of the baby’s hand holding the surgeon’sfinger? Again, problems are usually related to the misuse of a good tool.RtE: Are there other types of reproductive screenings that we should beaware of?Melanie: One issue that we haven’t talked about is the pre-implantation embryonicscreening, where, for example in IVF, they will take the embryo andextract one or two cells to test for whatever the parents choose, which couldbe sex selection or a certain genetic code. An example I heard at a recent conferencewas about a sick child whose parents decided to conceive a secondchild as a bone-marrow match. They had to do pre-embryonic screening tomake sure that the IVF embryos that were implanted were the correct match.RtE: So, although one assumes they will love the second child, this was avery utilitarian conception.Melanie: And imagine if you were that child and find out that you wereconceived for the purpose of being a donor. This is a slippery slope. We startwith this kind of selection and it’s not far from designer babies. “I’d like onewith blond hair, freckles and blue eyes, please.”RtE: If you don’t have a sense of God’s providence, you won’t see why not.A child may be born with a condition that helps them and those caring forthem attain salvation or even become saints. I’m thinking here of St. Matronaof Moscow who was born blind and later wasn’t able to walk, but becamea great miracle-worker.Melanie: Yes. I remember being about thirteen, very idealistic, and knowingthat we had several children with Down’s Syndrome in our church, I said,“Oh Papa, do you think that God especially blesses the Orthodox with all ofthese wonderful people?” Look at Greg and Tammy…” He said, “No honey,that’s because we don’t get rid of them”. I remember that slamming me likea ton of bricks.Orthodox Christian Teaching on IUI and IVFRtE: Can we talk now about the Orthodox Christian attitude towards thesereproductive and infertility issues?Melanie: One criticism that we hear of the Eastern Orthodox stance is thatwe are wishy-washy and have no magisterium to follow like the Roman1819

Road to Emmaus Vol. XIII, No. 2 (#49)Natural Conception, Natural BirthCatholic Church, which has strongly said “no” to artificial contraception andto IVF. However, a majority of Roman Catholics do use artificial contraception,so there is a disconnect between the Catholic teaching and the practiceof the people. This kind of universal blanket statement is not usually the waywe Orthodox work, yet our people are caught in the same dilemmas. In ourtradition, you might be talking to your spiritual father about it, but you alsomay not realize that this is an area of life that he should be included in.RtE: With the way things have moved so quickly in this technology, it’s aremarkable priest who can keep up with it all.Melanie: Yes, and with great sincerity a spiritual father may even say, “Ohyou want to have a child, isn’t that wonderful. God gives us medicine anddoctors to help us.” This is true, but in this case if it leads to the normalmedical IVF route it is unfair to the mother and the child because it’s notrestoring her to physical, psychological or spiritual health, nor is the childbeing treated with dignity.As an example of this, I had a client who had been trying to have a baby forseven years. When I first met her, I invited her to come see me, but insteadshe went to a doctor about IVF, who told her that she had a non-malignantfibroid tumor in her uterus that might be operable. So, I said, “Before you gothrough with the surgery and the IVF, can you just give me a few months towork with you? Come see my doctor, and let’s figure out what’s going on.”In the end what turned her off and sent her to me for natural fertility counselingwas that when she went in to talk about IVF they walked her down tobilling to get the details of her health insurance. She said, “It was a very, verylarge room, crammed full of desks and cubicles with everyone working hardand fast. It just creeped me out and I thought, ‘What kind of a place are theyrunning here?’” Again, this is $12,000-$17,000 per procedure. It seems tome that they are advertising themselves as angels of light, but really it’s amoney-making scheme with no real regard for the woman’s overall health.Of course, there are some doctors who have the woman’s best interest atheart, but as a system, I think it is very flawed.Last month, I ran into this woman at a wedding. When I turned around,I saw that—lo and behold—there she was pregnant. So, just by removingthe fibroid and using fertility-focused intercourse, this woman who couldn’tconceive for seven years conceived successfully without IVF.RtE: What have Orthodox patriarchates and jurisdictions said about IVF?Melanie: I’ve found it difficult to discover what the Church actually teaches,even after much library research and scouring the internet. There are someofficial statements by different Orthodox jurisdictions, but they are variedand sometimes hazy. For someone who is infertile, 39 years old, and tryingto find out about these issues, it’s extremely hard. They don’t have time to sitaround and wait for the Church’s advice. If they have a spiritual father whowent to seminary twenty years ago, he may not know much about these newcontraceptives or about assisted reproductive technologies, especially IVF.I don’t think that any Orthodox patriarchate or jurisdiction condones theproblematic aspects of IVF. Of the statements I’ve come across, the RussianOrthodox Church’s detailed look at many social questions, The Basis of theSocial Concept, is the most conservative. Here are two selections:…The Church cannot regard as morally justified the ways to childbirthdisagreeable with the design of the Creator of life. If a husband or awife is sterile and the therapeutic and surgical methods of infertilitytreatment do not help the spouses, they should humbly accept childlessnessas a special calling in life. In these cases, pastoral counselshould consider the adoption of a child by the spouses’ mutual consent.Among the admissible means of medical aid may be an artificial inseminationby the husband’s sperm cells [IUI] since it does not violatethe integrity of the marital union.…Morally inadmissible from the Orthodox point of view are also allkinds of extracorporeal fertilization involving the production, conservationand purposeful destruction of “spare” embryos. It is on therecognition of the human dignity even in an embryo that the moralassessment of abortion by the Church is based. 8RtE: The position on IVF is very clear, but I can’t help wondering about IUIand the integrity of the marital union.Melanie: Again, both Catholic bioethicists and our Greek bioethicist MetropolitanNikolaos (Hatzinikolaou) of Mesogaia and Lavreotiki say that itis never a good thing to separate reproduction from the marital act, or themarital act from reproduction. This is very commonsense.8 http://www.mospat.ru/en/documents/social-concepts/xii/2021

Road to Emmaus Vol. XIII, No. 2 (#49)Natural Conception, Natural BirthWithin the framework of a long description of the problems of assistedreproduction, the Bioethics Committee of the Church of Greece (of whichMetropolitan Nikolaos is the chairman) says:An immediate consequence of IVF is the creation of ‘surplus embryos’.The Church rejects this term because she cannot accept that there aresurplus human beings whose fate is determined by third parties… Theso-called ‘surplus embryos’ are preserved in a frozen state (cryopreservation)so as to be used in the future by the natural parents, or to bedonated to other ‘parents’; or to experiment with; or to be used for organogenesisso as to cover transplant needs; or, finally, to be destroyed.The Church cannot give her blessing for any of the above. OrthodoxChristian anthropology and theology cannot justify the existence ofembryos that are independent from the pregnancy procedure. Eachembryo constitutes the image of God and should be given the chance tobecome like Him. 9The Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America’s webpage says, “In vitro fertilizationis looked upon with great doubt because present methods causethe destruction of numerous human fertilized ova and even developing fetusesand this is still a form of abortion.” 10The most permissive stance towards IVF that I’ve come across is that ofthe Orthodox Church in America (OCA). They say, “The Orthodox Churchin America supports the use of in vitro fertilization by married couples, withtwo major conditions: the husband must be the sperm source, and the wifeprovides the ova (egg) and she must carry the pregnancy.” About the extraembryos from IVF the OCA says:Frequently embryos are frozen to reduce the risk of unacceptableembryos or the complications of multiple pregnancies. To act inaccord with the teachings of the Church that each embryo has thepotential for normal full-term development in utero, couples seekingassistance from in vitro fertilization must keep in mind and share thefollowing conditions with their physicians: 1) They will not considerthird-party assistance (e.g., donors or surrogates) 2) They do notconsider “selective termination” (abortion) within a multiple9 http://www.bioethics.org.gr/en/03_frame.htmlpregnancy to be acceptable. 3) All frozen embryos (if any) are destinedto be returned to the wife at a later time. 4) Frozen embryos or cellsfrom their embryos are not to be used in research or deemed to be “surplus”.It is the accepted responsibility of the Orthodox couple using IVFto share these conditions with the medical staff and to gain assurancesthat their wishes will be honored.Furthermore, the couple must keep the potential development of theirfrozen embryos (if any) in mind for use at a later time. If the couple hasreservations about the concept of frozen embryos and wishes to avoidthese deliberations, timely instructions must be given to only inseminatea limited number of ova. 11RtE: What do you think of this statement?Melanie: It seems like a strong statement, and in a perfect world this mightbe adequate, but when you actually read it carefully it specifies that the parentsmust “keep in mind and share with the physician the following conditions….”It sounds as if you are only morally obligated to inform your physician. OCAcouples may be told that they are to gain assurances that their wishes will behonored, but that is just not the way that IVF works. It’s a business.The doctor will inevitably counsel what will produce the best outcome. Butwhat if the implantation doesn’t take and several of the embryos miscarry, orwhat if they do have a child, and have eight left-over frozen embryos, or four,or even two? Is she going to implant all of them one by one? We know thatthe chances are they won’t all implant. If they are willing, do they have themoney to continue these expensive procedures, and what if the parents die?RtE: And, as we already mentioned, even with the best of back-up, these labrefrigerators do stop running, and even if the embryos are kept safe there isstill the ethical problem of putting a living human being into a frozen state—although I suppose that there are Christians who would argue that it is notclear when life starts.Melanie: In an Orthodox bioethics class at Holy Cross Greek School of Theologyit was brought up that, the moment the Theotokos said “Yes” to Godand conceived the Lord was when she became the Theotokos. She was carryingthe Incarnate God, not a clump of cells.10 http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith7101 11 http://oca.org/cdn/PDFs/christianwitness/2004-PMConf-LScheean.pdf2223

Road to Emmaus Vol. XIII, No. 2 (#49)Natural Conception, Natural BirthRtE: Yes. So what would you like to see Orthodox ethicists, canonists, andhierarchs address more clearly, and how?Melanie: I think we need to get a deeper dialog started. This is not a problemthat is going away; it’s a technology that is advancing rapidly and welaypeople need to hear from the Church.RtE: Our hierarchs are being asked to make ethical decisions about issuesthat are so complex that it hardly seems fair to demand this, yet they are theones who must guide the Church.Melanie: That’s a great point. Expecting them to be informed on all of thesetechnologies that change very rapidly is quite hard. I think it’s also very difficultfor scientists, who are almost never trained as ethicists, to understand theethical implications of their work. Scientists are often like monks for science,working in the lab endless hours to accomplish a single goal; they can’t possiblyunderstand the ethical implications of everything they do. Neither canwe expect that bishops, who have ethical training, will necessarily understandthe newest scientific details of these issues without being properly briefed.Interestingly, one of the most successful scientists in adult stem cell researchstopped using embryonic cells because one day he looked through themicroscope and realized that there was such little difference between whathe saw and his own daughter. After that, he refused to do any more of theembryonic stem cell research. This is one scientist who made that connection,but the average person would not have that opportunity.RtE: What do these official statements say about the use of birth control ingeneral?Melanie: The Russian Orthodox Church is the strongest in its language,particularly in regard to pills that are also abortifacients such as the minipill.Across the board you can say that there is not a general concessionthat birth control pills can be used with abandon. The issue comes down towhether natural methods and barrier methods are permissible. But again, isit known that this is an issue?RtE: What do you see as a difference between the Roman Catholic and theOrthodox ethos of marriage and family relations?Melanie: The Catholic marriage service with the vows, like many westernChristian marriages, is more contractual and something that ends afterdeath. For Orthodox, the service blesses something that you are allowingyourself to enter into; we don’t have these contractual marriage vows. TheWest has always used precise language, while ours is more about entering astate of marriage. The view of many Orthodox would be that Catholics seethe primary purpose of marriage to be procreation and mutual help, whilefor Orthodox the purpose of marriage is the couple’s salvation.RtE: In a talk at the OCAMPR Conference, Prof. Timothy Patitsas noted thatwhen St. John Chrysostom comments on the Lord’s phrase, “the two shallbecome one flesh,” this refers to both their own union and also to their unionin the flesh of the child. Certainly, a marriage is blessed if there aren’t children,but I think that we also have to be careful not to create an artificialbreach between ourselves and the Catholics by thinking that this “one flesh”has nothing to do with the child.Melanie: I believe we are actually more in line with one another than mostpeople think. Catholics also say that marriage is not simply the procreativefunction, but also the spiritual dimension, whereas we would never say thatit is only the spiritual dimension and not for the purpose of children.The Creighton MethodRtE: Melanie, thank you for your detailed overview of what we are facingtoday. Let’s turn now to this very interesting and hopeful program to helpcouples conceive naturally. What do you offer and how does it work?Melanie: Our method, the Creighton Model System (also called NaturalProcreative Technology), is based just on external observation. It’s a medicallystandardized model of the Billings Ovulation System where a womanobserves the cervical fluid that is naturally released by her body, and tellsher very precisely when she is ovulating. Knowing when she is fertile allowsa couple to use fertility-focused intercourse if they want to conceive, or toavoid pregnancy if they need to.Although most people still associate natural family planning with therhythm method, this is much more reliable than the 1950’s and 60’s practiceof charting your calendar date and temperature. Now we know that the lute-2425

Road to Emmaus Vol. XIII, No. 2 (#49)Natural Conception, Natural Birthal phase of the cycle—from ovulation until the next menses—doesn’t deviatemuch, possibly by one day. What is highly variable is the proliferating phase,from the first day of your period to ovulation.This can vary radically because women are so sensitive. One of the beautiesin the way that we work is that men are very linear in the way that theyexperience their sexuality, while women are very complicated. If, for example,a woman’s husband is up for a job promotion, although that is a goodtype of stress, she is anxiously anticipating his interview. Perhaps this stressis more acute than usual for her and it might actually delay her ovulationfour or five days because the body doesn’t want to conceive under any type ofunnatural stress. It is holds off ovulation as long as possible until her stressdips a little bit.RtE: How widely used is the Creighton Model, and how does it differ fromother natural methods?Melanie: The Creighton Model is a medically standardized model, so wehave an international system and code. We have teachers around the worldand we train our own doctors, surgeons, and gynecologists. We are very focusedon restoring a woman’s reproductive system to full health, and aretrained to read these biomarkers not only for gaining or avoiding pregnancy,but for women to maintain and monitor their gynecological health in general.RtE: I know there are also Billings Ovulation Method teachers around, aswell as other natural fertility programs. How are they trained and how doesthis differ from the Creighton Method?Melanie: Often they are trained with one or two weekend seminars wherethey receive a basic knowledge of the normal process. The Creighton Method-NaturalProcreative Technology training is much more extensive andtakes about a year, of which a few weeks are in residence. After you demonstratethat you understand the theory, experienced practitioners come tosupervise and watch you teach and interact.The old sympto-thermal method was about taking your temperature andcharting your cycle, but this is more predictable. Dr. Hilgers, who refined themethod, was originally at Creighton University and now is at the Pope PaulVI Institute in Omaha, Nebraska.RtE: How many Creighton teachers are there?MELANIE: I’m not sure, but the demand is exploding now because of theneed. There are teachers of the Creighton Method all over the world. In myclass in Omaha we had a variety of Americans and Europeans, a nun from Nigeria,a priest from Poland (it’s very big in Poland), and a doctor from France.RtE: How successful is the method?Melanie: In a study of the Creighton Model in 1998, the Journal of ReproductiveMedicine said that out of 1,800 couples enrolled in the study, with17,130 total months studied, the method’s effectiveness at predicting ovulationwas rated at 99.5%. In the actual study which was looking at it to avoidpregnancy, it was 96.8% effective when the system is used correctly. A groupof Irish physicians trained in this method have had as much success at treatinginfertility as artificial methods—actually more success, as they took onclients who had previously failed with IVF treatment. 12I’ve had a few patients use this for birth control, but in the years I’ve beenpracticing and also for my practitioner friends, the majority of our clientscome to us for infertility. With a couple with normal fertility and no realproblems, but who haven’t been able to conceive, the average couple willconceive within the first three months using fertility-focused intercourse.RtE: That’s amazing.Melanie: This average of three months for people of normal fertility wouldinclude couples who are newly married or engaged and know that they wantto start a family right away. Or it could be people who have been using contraceptivesfor a while, but now want to have a child. Within the first cycle,that is, the first month of using fertility-focused intercourse, 76% of the couplesachieve conception. By the third cycle, the third month of trial, 90%conceive, and by the sixth cycle (or month), 98% have conceived.Here’s another neat statistic. In a population of 100 couples with normalfertility who came in seeking to avoid pregnancy—within the first year 21%of them decided to use the method to achieve pregnancy instead.12 “… Natural Procreative Technology, an integrative approach to infertility, resulted in substantial live birthrates with a minimal risk of twin or multiple births…. The treatment program is minimally invasive, with fewermultiple pregnancies.” Stanford, Parnell, and Boyle, “Outcomes from Treatment of Infertility with NaturalProcreative Technology in an Irish General Practice”, Journal of the American Board of Family Medicine,January-February 2009, vol. 22, no. 1, pgs. 94-95.2627

Road to Emmaus Vol. XIII, No. 2 (#49)Natural Conception, Natural BirthFor couples who have a problem with infertility, using only the CreightonModel of fertility-focused intercourse on their own with no medical help ortreatment, 20-40% will conceive within eight to twelve months.RtE: What would indicate a possible infertility problem?Melanie: If a couple hasn’t conceived within a year, while trying, you mightlook to see if there are fertility problems. However, if the couple is using fertility-focusedintercourse and haven’t conceived within six months, we beginto look for reasons. We are interested in finding problems quickly becauseage is always a factor, particularly after 35. This could include problems likea low sperm count, which could be a sub-fertility issue, or if a woman is justnot ovulating. Limited cervical mucus can be another factor. But with theCreighton Model and medical treatment, up to 80% will conceive.RtE: Eighty percent! That’s wonderful! What might medical treatment include?Melanie: It differs with individuals and causes for infertility. The 80% successrate would include women who have low progesterone and perhapskeep miscarrying because their hormone profile is off. They can be supplementedwith progesterone and then carry the baby to term. Women withendometriosis would be less successful, but there is certainly hope. I myselfconceived after laparoscopic surgery for endometriosis.RtE: Obviously, some of these women have already sought regular medicaltreatment. Why do you think Creighton practitioners are more successful?Melanie: I think that we are just better at what we do. For example, eventhe way we take hormone profiles is more thorough than most OB/GYNs.They might test once for progesterone and it might be at a point in the cyclewhere they are just looking to see if ovulation has happened. We do a moreextensive hormone profile. Even the way our Creighton-affiliated OB/GYN’sdo their surgeries can be considered a little counter-cultural to the regularmedical establishment because we are so careful. For instance, we want tohave less pelvic adhesions so we use more fluid in surgery than other surgeons.Common surgeries would include unblocking Fallopian tubes andtreating endometriosis or Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome.Using the Creighton /NaPro Method for Natural Birth ControlRtE: You’ve mentioned that the Creighton Method is close to 97% effectivewhen used for birth control. In the Greek Orthodox world and many parishesin the West, birth control has generally been left as a decision between thecouple and their spiritual father. In the Slavic Orthodox world there is usuallya much more conservative attitude. In The Basis of the Social Concept,the Russian Orthodox Church condemns artificial birth control that mightcause the fertilized embryo to abort, which includes the new mini-pills youmentioned earlier and IUDs. There is nothing specifically said about barriermethods, although they write that, “the deliberate refusal of childbirth onegoistic grounds devalues marriage and is a definite sin”. The statement doesaccept periods of abstinence and this would include natural family planning. 13While some Orthodox Christians would say that we are co-creators withGod and therefore can choose to use natural family planning methods, othersare concerned that we are still exerting our will over God’s providence insending us a child when and as He wills. Will you speak to this?Melanie: It has certainly become harder for women, even for those whodon’t work full-time, because most of us don’t have those extended familyties—the mothers and grandmothers living with us, the aunts and unclesclose by, the brood of cousins as our playmates, the neighbors up and downthe street watching out for us.Not only do we lack this community infrastructure, but we often have twoparents working to afford what everyone thinks you need now to have a family.Children used to be seen as a blessing, the fruit of your marriage andsomething that you prayed for and longed for. Although people now go togreat lengths to have children, children are also seen as a financial burden, or“If I have another child, I can’t achieve my career goals, I can’t write my dissertation”.There’s very much a change in the language that we have chosen.RtE: Yes, and I also believe that we need to find ways to support motherswho have academic and creative gifts to offer, not just the unwed teenagers.These talents are from God and it’s not an accident that He has raised upthese women in an era when they have these possibilities.13 http://www.mospat.ru/en/documents/social-concepts/xii/2829

Road to Emmaus Vol. XIII, No. 2 (#49)Natural Conception, Natural BirthMelanie: Yes, and also we are seeing more depression and anxiety in ourgeneral population which makes it very difficult for women and men to dealwith daily life. This is why the connection to the spiritual father is so important.The spiritual father knows the situation of each person and can guidethem accordingly. Couples may abstain for medical reasons, for severe financialreasons, or because they mentally can’t handle another child.RtE: I wonder if the financial reasons ever come by themselves? As we allknow, many poor cultures have child after child with little income at all.Melanie: My boss is fond of saying that her Irish grandmother used tosay, “Ah, every baby is born with a loaf of bread under each arm!” God willprovide.I also remember that in her book, Real Choices, Frederica Mathewes-Green wrote of her travels around the United States, speaking to womenwho have had abortions. Most of these women said that the deciding factorin changing their mind and keeping the baby would have been, “if one personhad told me that they would stand by me and unfailingly support me.”I believe that we as Christians have a responsibility to help those who are inneed, whether that need is physical, mental, or economic. All of us are givengifts to help. This is why Orthodox charities like Rachel’s Vineyard, whichassists women with crisis pregnancies and healing after abortion are so important.14 This is a way to help women who want to keep their children butdon’t know how.RtE: The most radical example of personal charity I’ve heard of is fromThe Farm, a counter-culture commune in Tennessee that began in the late1960’s. Some of their women are highly trained midwives and they have aclinic as well. In the early 1970’s they put out an appeal across the U.S., “Ifyou find yourself pregnant and are thinking of an abortion, you can comeand live with us, receive prenatal care, and after giving birth, if you like, youcan stay as part of our community. If you want to leave, but don’t feel youcan care for your baby, we will take care of him, and if you want the babyback at any time you can come and get him.” I think that many women tookadvantage of this. They were also some of the first proponents of the BillingsMethod of natural conception, which was a forerunner of your own method.Melanie: Wow. People are starving for community, but at the same time weare so isolated and afraid that we don’t know where to find it. There is alsoa kind of stigma now against large families. My Catholic friends with largefamilies feel rather persecuted in public. People come up and say, “Gosh,when are you going to stop?” An Orthodox priest in my area recently tolda group of teenagers, “When I see families with all of these kids runningaround I sometimes want to hand them birth control myself.” To hear thisbeing preached from the pulpit, that large families are somehow irresponsibleand are using up the earth’s resources is a truly Malthusian concept. 15The seven billionth person was just born, and now people are starting tobring up overpopulation again. That kind of thinking is very dangerous.RtE: What do you do if a couple comes to you with a contraceptive mentality?Melanie: There’s usually one story that I tell when people ask me this. I hada young couple who had only been married about eight months who initiallywanted to learn to chart the wife’s fertile days so that they could use barriermethods only at the time of fertility. When they came in I asked, “Can youjust give me a month—one cycle—without using the artificial barrier methods,just use the system as intended, and I promise I’ll be at your beck andcall if you have any questions. They gave me that month.When the couple came in after trying this natural method as it was intended,they just seemed so in love. They were holding hands, they were close,laughing, and joyful. It was a dramatic change from their first visits and Ithought, “How beautiful and wonderful.” Later, after they had a pregnancyscare and went back to using the barrier method, I noticed a distinct changein their affect and demeanor. Another interesting fact is that among users ofnatural family planning the divorce rate is notoriously low, below 3% as opposedto the 40-50% rate that is generally reported.RtE: At the OCAMPR conference again, Professor Patitsas spoke of the ethicalproblem of artificial contraceptives and technologies being a violation ofhospitality, in this case a lack of hospitality to the child. Some people wouldtake it further and ask if abstinence isn’t a denial of hospitality to the husbandand wife, as well as to the child?14 Rachel’s Vineyard can be reached at (toll-free) 877-467-3463 or online at: http://www.rachelsvineyard.org/15 Thomas Malthus: 18th-century English writer who was one of the first to develop the idea of overpopulationand that the world’s resources are running out.3031

Road to Emmaus Vol. XIII, No. 2 (#49)Natural Conception, Natural BirthMelanie: Although during major fasts we also abstain, as a means of openingourselves to hospitality to God. All I can say is that I think that for everythingthere is a season. We aren’t animals in heat and it’s good to temperthe passions.This is an aspect of our Orthodox faith that is very beautiful and that manyother faith traditions do not have—we not only fast from certain types offood, but from marital relations during the four major fast periods, on weekdayfast days, and before receiving Holy Communion. In traditional cultures,couples also abstain while the baby is nursing, until it is weaned, so comingtogether after these times is beautiful. This was universal in Christendombefore the Reformation. For us this is part of our spiritual life, and I hearfrom many women that coming together again is like another honeymoon.Very observant Orthodox Jews still refrain half of the month, from thetime of the onset of a woman’s period until a full seven days after it hasstopped. For a woman with a normal cycle, this would be the point at whichmost women naturally conceive, and because they have refrained, the manhas more potent sperm. Physiologically it all works.Now the traditional Jewish community is trying to figure out what thismeans for women who have very short cycles or abnormal bleeding. If awoman has a short 25-day cycle, she’s not necessarily going to ovulate on day14, which is when they can go dip into the ceremonial pool, be consideredritually clean and able to be embraced by their husbands. Some rabbis havesaid that it is better for a woman to follow the fast of the Orthodox-Judaiccustom and then to go ahead and have one of these reproductive technologiesthan to be disobedient to what the custom says. They would actually say,“It’s better for you to have IUF or IUI than to break this custom.” But theyare struggling with this now.RtE: Abstinence during the fasts is still practiced almost universally by piousOrthodox in the Slavic churches. For most of the Christian era, abstinencewas built in and births came in due season.Vulnerability, Prayer, and HopeRtE: I know that as a full-time high school teacher, you do this counseling inyour spare time as a ministry. How do you feel about your work?Melanie: When I went for training my thought was, “If I can just help oneperson have a baby, the time, travel, expense for the course in Omaha will allbe worth it.” Fortunately, there have been more than one.RtE: How does your Orthodox faith relate to your work with fertility?Melanie: I think that for every Christian, the message of the Gospel is Christcrucified and Christ resurrected, and to love your neighbor as yourself. Inlittle ways everything in our life is a crucifixion and a resurrection and yousee that mirrored with people: emotionally, physically, in every facet. Lovingyour neighbor as yourself is helping someone who is in pain. Trying to dowhat you believe is the best thing for a couple is a gift on both sides.RtE: I’ve known several women who, after finding themselves unable to conceive,finally opened their hearts to adopting a child. After putting in the application,they suddenly discovered themselves pregnant. Do you think thatthe vulnerability of just abandoning oneself to God’s providence is an aid toconception?Melanie: Yes, this is the idea that we don’t set our own stubborn will upin opposition to God’s will. At the root of that is pride and egoism. We wantwhat we want, when we want it. When God doesn’t give it to us we can kindof pout. We hear stories all the time that when people finally give up and letgo of the desire is when they are blessed.RtE: Similarly in the 12-step programs, once people finally admit their inabilityto control their own lives, they often have an experience of God andthings start moving for them.Melanie: Tenderness and weakness can also initiate a change because thereis a great amount of guilt, blame and shame that go hand-in-hand with infertility.It can be a very painful process for an individual and a couple. We canfeel very hurt and lost because we think that something that should fulfill us isbeyond our reach. Women particularly feel that biological clock ticking. Thiscan lead us to some of the decisions that infertile women make—to use IVFor another reproductive technology. The pain and longing can be very acute.It is particularly hard for those of us in a western society who are taught,“If you work hard enough you will get it.” This is the American dream that3233

Road to Emmaus Vol. XIII, No. 2 (#49)Natural Conception, Natural Birthyou can pull yourself up by the bootstraps, the rugged individualism of “I cando it, I can be it.” For many women who are career women and wives—professionallysuccessful, who entertain, shine socially and become masters oftheir own little universe—to not succeed at conception may be the first timein their life that they find themselves failing. This brings the realization thatyou can’t control everything: we are all subject to God’s will. Still, none ofthis diminishes or negates the pain or suffering of infertility because it is across. It is a cross that Joachim and Anna had to bear, as well as Elizabethand Zachariah, Abraham and Sarah. Yet, as Metropolitan Nikolaos says, biologicalsterility may become the cause of rich spiritual fertility for a couplethat humbly accepts God’s will in their life. 16RtE: Which saints inspire you in this work?Melanie: I always pray to Sts. Joachim and Anna, asking for their prayersbefore God for my infertile clients. I’ve had one client who has not been ableto carry a child. She conceived once with the method and since then she hasadvanced in age and has progressive endometriosis. She is now looking toadopt. For my clients who decide to adopt I pray to St. John Maximovitch,Archbishop of Shanghai and San Francisco, because of his great love for theabandoned children of Shanghai. Recently I also began contemplating unmarriedwomen who have problems with their reproductive systems, or anywoman who simply needs to be restored to health. Here I thought of theGospels and the woman with the issue of blood, who in Orthodox tradition isthought to be St. Veronica or Berenice.RtE: What do we know about her?Melanie: By tradition she was married and had suffered from the issue ofblood for twelve years before she met Christ. This was a debilitating illnesson which she had spent all of her money searching for a cure. In Hebrewtradition she wouldn’t have been allowed to touch her husband because shewas bleeding, nor would anyone be allowed to touch anything that she hadtouched. So, she not only felt sick and physically drained, but was living almostlike a leper.RtE: We generally focus on the miracle and forget what those twelve yearsmust have meant.Melanie: Yes, and when she sees Christ she kneels down to just touch thehem of His garment. The first time that I really thought about that Gospel,I couldn’t understand why the Lord called her out in front of this crowd, bysaying “Who touched me? …Power has gone out of me.” Chrysostom saysthat this was a theft on her part, but a good theft, and that the Lord exposedher in order to ease her conscience so that she wouldn’t feel that she hadstolen the miracle. At the same time He praises the faith that opened her tohealing. I think He was also showing the Pharisees that although she hadbroken the law by touching him, her faith was rewarded.RtE: Melanie, to close, do you see people reawakening to the need for a morenatural approach to reproductive health and infertility treatments?Melanie: Yes. The Creighton Method practitioners in the Boston area areon the verge of being swamped. I’ve had five calls this week alone from couplesinterested in counseling, and this shows a growing awareness. Naturalconception in the body is the most loving and healthiest option, and I thinkthat that should be our goal—to restore a woman’s system to health and helpthem to have a baby in the best possible way.Melanie Sabtchev may be contacted at fertilitycare.of.ma@gmail.com.To find a local fertility counseling practitioner, look up the Creighton Method/Natural ProcreationTechnology websites at: www.creightonmodel.com or www.naprotechnology.com.16 The Greek Orthodox Position on the Ethics of Assisted Reproduction, http://www.bioethics.org.gr/MMLN%20assisted%20repro.pd3435

Optina’sSecond SpringOptina Pustyn’s Igumen Melchisedek 1 is a long-time friend of Russky Palomnik and Road to Emmausstaff members. An Optina hieromonk from the first days of the monastery’s revival in 1988,he has served as the monastery econom (steward) and been an integral part of Optina’s restorationand publishing work. Now in charge of Sts. Peter and Paul, Optina’s Moscow podvorye, Fr.Melchisedek’s warm appreciation of Optina’s legacy and hope for the rebirth of the Optina spirit,has nurtured two decades of pilgrims to this holy refuge.RTE: Father Melchisedek, how did you become a monk at Optina Monastery?Igumen Melchisedek: My first encounter with Optina was in 1984 when,in my first year of seminary at Holy Trinity Monastery-Sergiev Posad, I hada chance to go somewhere over the November holidays. I thought, “Threedays, where do I go?” I knew that Optina Monastery had existed before therevolution and four of us seminarians decided to try to find it. We went there“by chance,” but we were actually led by God; four years later two of us returnedto Optina as hieromonks.My first impression of Optina was that it was completely destroyed. It wasin ruins and there wasn’t even a possibility that it might be given back to theChurch. The monastery had been turned into an agricultural school and in1984 the grounds were full of students and families who lived there yearround.The large Church of the Kazan Mother of God was being used as agarage for agricultural equipment and they had parked a huge combine inthe altar.RTE: Did you feel holiness there and the presence of the Optina elders, orwas it spiritually empty after decades of desecration?1 Although often used to mean the abbot or head of a monastery, in the Slavic tradition, the title of Igumenalso denotes a priest-monk between the rank of hieromonk and archimandrite. The Optina Monastery Brotherhoodincludes monks, hieromonks, igumens, and archimandrites.Opposite: Igumen Melchisedek, Protopriest of the Optina Podvorye of Sts. Peter and Paul,Moscow, 2010.3

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 1 (#44)Igumen Melchisedek: We were flying. We had wings. The grace! The cells,the graves… everything. Elder Amvrosy’s grave was the only one shown to us,but we knew that all of the other elders were buried around the main church.I took slides of the monastery and when we returned to the seminary, I borrowedphotos of the elders from the library and found good pre-revolutionarymaterials, particularly Optina Pustyn and Its Era by Ivan Kontzevitch,the most unique book on the history of Optina. Within a week, I gave a lectureto the seminarians on the history of Optina Monastery and the life ofits elders. (smiling) I’d spent half a day there, and was now speaking likean expert on Optina, but the whole experience was very close to me. It hadmade a huge impression.Four years later, in 1988, I’d finished seminary and was now a hieromonkat the Lavra. On Pentecost, the great feastday of Holy Trinity-St. SergiusLavra, during the festal dinner, Archimandrite Alexei Kutepov, the namestnik2 of the Lavra announced, “The following fathers are being sent with theblessing of Patriarch Pimen to revive Optina Pustyn: Archimandrite Evlogy,Hieromonk Theophilact, Hierodeacon Innokenty….” He ended the list withHierodeacon Pankary and myself, who’d both been on the original seminarians’visit. I’d finished seminary and had just entered the Lavra’s theologicalacademy. I wept because I had to leave the Lavra, but I also knew that Godhad prepared me for this in advance.There were two contradictory feelings in my soul. I was leaving St. Sergius-Holy Trinity Lavra where I’d spent four years in seminary, where I’d beentonsured, and where my spiritual father lived. It was there that I’d learned tobe a monk and I’d become accustomed to the Lavra’s traditions, but when Iheard the words “Optina Monastery” quite different feelings began to appearin my soul. I understood that it was a great honor to be part of the revivalof such a monastery, which coincided with the celebration of the 1000-yearanniversary of the Baptism of Russia in 988.Although the Sobor of the Russian Church 3 was gathering at the Lavra forthe millennium celebration, Optina’s first namestnik, Archimandrite Evlogy,went to Optina a few days before. I went with him as I’d been given the task of2 Namestnik: A Russian term meaning “viceroy”, or “deputy,” literally in place of an appointee. Many ofthe large Russian monasteries are directly under the Patriarch of Russia, with the day-by-day running of thefoundation entrusted to a namestnik, an experienced hieromonk who takes on the role of abbot in his stead.3 Sobor: from Slavonic for “assembly” is a council of bishops gathered with other clerical and lay delegatesrepresenting the entire church.Opposite: Pilgrims at pre-revolutionary Optina, early 20th century.4

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 1 (#44)optina’s second springcarrying the antimens 4 from the Moscow Patriarchate to Optina. As I traveledto Optina with the antimens for Optina on my chest, at first I was sad and anxiousat leaving my monastery, but about half-way, I began to feel that the antimenswere like a warm, vital heart that were being taken to a dying man. Bytransplanting this heart into him, he would come alive. I felt an inner warmth,a joy and a certainty that from the very first liturgy Optina would revive.The first liturgy was on the 3rd of June, 1988, the feast of the VladimirMother of God. Since then, the liturgy in Optina has been served every dayfor all these years without a break. After we served the first liturgy, I immediatelyreturned to the Lavra to take part in the Sobor for the canonizationof Elder Ambrose [Amvrosy] of Optina, as well as that of eight othersaints: Great Prince Dimitry Donskoy of Moscow, Andrei Rublev, Maximosthe Greek, Metropolitan Macarius of Moscow and All Russia, Schema-ArchimandritePaisius Velichkovsky, Blessed Xenia of Petersburg, Bishop IgnatiusBrianchininov, and Bishop Theophan the Recluse.Four pairs of hieromonks were entrusted with processing with the iconsto the Sobor for the canonization. Each pair had two icons of the saints whowere being consecrated. Father Alypy and I made one pair and out of theeight saints, he carried St. Maximos the Greek and I was asked to carry St.Amvrosy of Optina.RTE: What a wonderful beginning. How long before this had the monasterybeen given back?Igumen Melchisedek: Optina Pustyn was given back to the OrthodoxChurch on the 17th of November, 1987. The temporary head was IgumenJoseph Bratishev from Danilov Monastery, who later went on to become theabbot of Solovki. He had gone to Optina a bit earlier with a few workers tobegin some restoration. In that first year only the famous angel bell-towerand a few small rooms above the trapeznaya [monastery dining-room] hadbeen given back to the Church. In a tiny room high up in the belltower wemade a temporary church dedicated to the Vladimir Mother of God, in honorof our first liturgy, which took place on this day. We lived in the same cellas the head of the monastery, while the other small rooms were used as thedining room, office, library, and vestry.4 Antimens: A cloth containing relics given by the local bishop that Orthodox liturgy is served upon, especiallyif using unconsecrated altars. A permanent church has relics placed within the altar at its consecration.Opposite: Elder Anatoly the Younger with monks and novices at Optina, early 20th century.67

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 1 (#44)In the summer of 1988 four other seminarians came, who were then tonsuredas monks at Optina. Three of them still live here: Igumen Vladimir,Igumen Alexander, and Igumen Antonii. The foundation of our monasticlife were the daily services to God: up at 5:00 am for a brothers’ molebento St. Amvrosy, then Matins, Hours, and Liturgy, ending at 9:30. Then westarted on our work, and at 12:00 had lunch. After lunch we had somethingunique, the so-called “Brothers’ Hours” when, headed by the abbot, all ofthe fathers and brothers took part in restoration and agriculture with theworkers; learning how to dig, build, operate the heavy machinery and so on.At 5:00 we had supper, then Vespers, and then the monastic rule (Canonsto the Lord, the Mother of God, and the Guardian Angel) followed by Compline.All of this ended at about 8:30 in the evening. Then the next day, thesame again. All of the brothers took part, as did Archimandrite Evlogy, whoalso directed the monastic choir.Little by little we received more of the monastery back. About seventy percentof the buildings were still standing but all were dilapidated, and manywere completely ruined. In those early years we concentrated on physicallyrestoring the monastery. Although the school had left the agricultural equipmentbehind, we couldn’t grow our own food yet as we had no land. We hadonly been given back the buildings. The gardens and farm came later.The church of St. John the Forerunner Skete in the woods a short distancefrom the monastery, where many of the Optina elders had lived, was givenback only in 1990, and we began services then. For many years after thisonly the church was ours, as the small houses that had originally been partof the skete all had families and laypeople living in them. There were tworegional museums there as well, dedicated to Optina-Kaluga history and toRussian authors of the 19th and 20th centuries who had visited the area. Atnight from Monday to Tuesday, the whole monastic brotherhood gatheredfor a true all-night vigil like on Mount Athos, until 5:00 am. This was a goodfoundation for the future.Now with such a large number of brothers not everyone can always takepart in all of the services, and I think this is a problem. In those early years,when everything was in ruins and we had to rebuild quickly, there seemed tobe no time for prayer, but I believe we actually prayed more and things wenton more successfully. When we try to do more active work at the expense ofthe services, we have more problems. The first priority is services, the foun-Opposite: Ruined Church of the Entrance of the Mother of God, 1945.8

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 1 (#44)optina’s second springdation of monastic life, and also our practice of eating together at trapeza. Atmeals we read the lives of the saints—most often the teachings of the Optinaelders, so we feed both body and soul with Optina food.Do you know how Optina’s namestnik set the brothers free from beingattached to things? At first, he used to move them from one cell to anotherevery year, and some of the brothers would ask for a truck to move theirthings. Then he began moving them twice a year, and now they asked onlyfor a car. When he began to move them even more frequently, the brothersbegan asking the monk whose cell they were moving into to describe it, exchanginginformation about what was there, down to the books. Most endedup with only one bag, moving from room to room.Reclaiming the MonasteryAs I said earlier, the authorities didn’t give the monastery back all at oncebecause there were forty families living there, as well as the agriculturalteachers and students who were still going to school. There were also familiesin the skete. In order to take possession of the monastery, we had to findapartments or homes in the area of Kozelsk at our own expense for all ofthese people to live in, and they had to agree to move.There are many incredible stories from these early years, but I rememberone in particular. In half of St. Amvrosy’s old cell in the St. John the ForerunnerSkete, there lived a man named Constantine Abramov. Our first taskwas to get these two rooms free. We had very little money and the monasterygave the namestnik the task of bargaining with him. An entire house for afamily could be bought for 5000 rubles at that time, and Constantine andhis wife lived in only two of the rooms of St. Amvrosy’s cell, but he wanted10,000 rubles to move out—the cost of two houses. In these long talks aboutthe sale, Constantine would bring up many different objections, and evenafter they finally agreed on the price, he decided that the notarized contractwas not made up properly, so he refused to sign until the wording was altered.Finally, he stipulated that we had to give the payment in one, three,and five ruble notes. Everything was complicated.Finally one evening, I invited him to the office. I was the econom of themonastery, and gave him the sum in one, three, and five ruble notes, just ashe’d asked. In order to make up the 10,000 rubles, it was a huge bag, and Iasked him to count it. When he saw the immense pile of banknotes he said,Opposite: Staretz Ambrose of Optina, late 19th century.1011

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 1 (#44)12 Entrance to St. John the Forerunner Skete, early 20th century.Ruined gate of St. John the Forerunner Skete, 1960’s.

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 1 (#44)optina’s second spring“Is it 10,000?” I said, “Yes. Count it.” He said, “I won’t count it. If I can’t trustyou, who can I trust?” But this was not reassuring because I understood thathe was not at all a simple, straight-forward person, and that there could besome unpleasant consequences later. So I said, “If we agree on this, thenthis transaction is finished. Sign the contract and the receipt.” He signed, Isigned, and he left with the money.Suddenly the next morning I saw him returning to the monastery. Hecame straight to me and said, “I need to talk to you urgently.” I immediatelyfelt apprehensive; there would surely be another complication behind this.“Tell me,” I said. Constantine replied, “I went to the place where we werestaying, and my wife and I went to bed happy that our deal had taken place.Suddenly, in the night, I saw a priest in my dream—it was Amvrosy.”I began to test him. “Why do you think it was Amvrosy?” I asked. “I livedmy whole life in his cell,” he said, “I took people on excursions there andshowed them his photo. How can I not know him?”I said, “What was he wearing?” Constantine said, “Something shining.” Iasked, “Was it the robe that monks wear every day, or the special clothes thatthey serve in?” He said, “The ones you serve in.” “And what did he say?” Iasked. “He said very sternly, ‘Constantine, count those packs of money.’ So,I woke up my wife and said, ‘Come on dear, get up and count the money.’‘You’re crazy,’ she said, ‘You’ve gone mad.’ ‘I tell you, let’s count it.’ So wecounted the money until morning. There were 157 rubles more than thereshould have been, and here it is.” What I regret now is that I put those 157rubles into my desk and used it to pay the workers. It should have been savedfor the monastery museum as a miracle of God’s grace.It was very hard work to begin to restore the monastery. Frankly, it wasa miracle and the greatest miracle was that St. Amvrosy took care of everykopek.Elder Amvrosy Teaches Constantine Not to SwearLater, Constantine told us of another event connected with Elder Amvrosy.One day, a few years before the monks returned to Optina, as he was takinghis turn as the local cowherd, Constantine approached the Paphnuty Borovskyspring with the cows and saw an old man sitting next to the water. He said,“Old man, how are you?” The old man replied, “Praise God, my son,” meaningthat he was well. “And is there a God?” “Yes there is.” Then Constantine toldOpposite: View of pre-revolutionary Optina across the Zhizhdra River, early 20th century.1415

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 1 (#44)me, “I swore at him, using some bad words about God. Suddenly, somethinginvisible hit me hard from behind and I found myself in the spring, which isabout three by three meters and four meters deep, lined with log walls andopen to the sky. It was October and I was wearing a heavy coat, and as I beganto sink, I called out, ‘Old man, help me!’ For a very long time he didn’t reachout his hand to help, and my clothes started dragging me under the water.When I’d taken in a good amount of water, the old man finally stretched outhis hand. Instantly and quite unexpectedly, I found myself standing on thebank. He said to me, ‘Never say that again.’ I started walking home to theskete, about a kilometer away. After a few feet I turned back to look, but theold man had disappeared; he was nowhere to be seen. I went home, changedmy clothes, and my wife gave me tea and then some vodka. She was distressedby the fact that I had been in the water at that time of year and said, ‘We don’thave such an old man among our local people.’ I tried to think of who it couldhave been from among the people I knew, and then realized that it looked verymuch like the photo of Elder Amvrosy.” From that time Constantine didn’tswear, and he always spoke about that meeting with repentance.RTE: How did the other villagers living at Optina respond to you?Igumen Melchisedek: Our main problem in the beginning was that thepeople living in the monstery put radios and tape recorders in their windowsand played very loud music—as if we were enemies they were trying to driveaway. Fr. Mikael Timofev and I were in charge of finding places outside themonastery for these people to live and after about a year, when the villagershad gotten to know us better, they didn’t play their loud music anymore.In time, the monastery built a new apartment house with forty apartmentsnear Kozelsk, all ready to live in. The lumber was brought 300 kilometersfrom Moscow; it was an incredible construction project. We owned eighteenof the apartments, which went to some of the families we needed to movefrom Optina; the other twenty-two were taken and sold by the state, who hadhelped with the financing. This house is still locally known as “Popovsky,” aderogatory name for priests.When I had to take the documents around to the families who were beinggiven new apartments, I went to the first house in which there lived a mannamed Obed Koslov. He knew me by now, and when he saw me coming heput potatoes, cucumbers, and cognac on the table for hospitality. Then heOpposite: Villager in front of ruined Church of the Entrance of the Mother of God, 1960.16

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 1 (#44)optina’s second springtook out a sausage and began to slice it. I said, “It’s the fast.” He replied,“No one can see.” He had the impression that we fasted only when someonecould see us, and was very surprised to find out that it was real. Although hewas worldly, he was such a memorable character, that even though he is longgone, the house he lived in is still called Koslov’s House.As well as liking music, Koslov was a very fit athlete, and he told the localhoodlums, “If you hurt these people, I’ll show you.” One year, towards theend of the Nativity Fast, Kozlov, who was very proud of his physical conditionand his immense strength said to Fr. Michael, who is also no weakling,“Why do you fast?” “Grace,” said Fr. Michael. “What’s grace?” Koslov asked.“Look, you eat sausage and I eat potatoes, let’s arm wrestle.” They startedwrestling and Kozlov turned red with effort. Fr. Michael said, “That’s yoursausage.” In the end Kozlov beat him, but just barely. He walked away groaningand said, “Yes, potatoes give you a lot.” I was present also as the judge.So, God gives strength. When people ask, “How can we fast? We’ll have noenergy,” Fr. Naum at the Lavra replies, “Elephants and bulls only eat grassbut they can carry logs.”RTE: Were any of the laypeople living at the monastery or in the skete Orthodox,and did they have a sense of the importance of the Optina elders?Igumen Melchisedek: Yes, as I mentioned earlier, when we first came tothe monastery Elder Amvrosy’s cell was divided between two families. TheAbramovs lived in one side and the accountant for the agricultural school, awoman named Claudia, lived in the other. Claudia had asthma, and at thattime the attacks were becoming more and more frequent. One night as shelay in bed, she felt that she was suffocating and, certain that she was dying,turned to the wall thinking, “Lord, let this end as soon as possible.” As shelay with her face to the wall she heard a voice behind her, “Claudia, put onyour cross!” She had forgotten that she wasn’t wearing a cross. She rememberedthat her baptismal cross was behind one of her icons, so she took itdown, put it on, lay back down and fell peacefully asleep. After that, she hadno more bad attacks. The asthma was still there but she didn’t experiencethe suffocation again. When she was asked whose voice it was, she replied, “Idon’t know, it must have been the Lord.” She lived in St. Amvrosy’s cell, andin principle her life was pious, so this was God’s mercy to her. This is whatwearing a cross means.Opposite: Villagers at Optina, 1970’s.1819

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 1 (#44)TITLERTE: Yes. Can you speak now about some of the major events you witnessed,feastdays and the reopening of churches?Igumen Melchisedek: One liturgy that stands out in my mind is that ofTransfiguration, August 6/19th of 1988, when so many people came to Optinathat they couldn’t all fit into the belfry chapel, so we decided to serve outside.The pilgrims stood in the street and a staircase was built from the lowerpart of the tower (which used to be the monastery’s main entrance) up to thelevel of the second-floor chapel in the bellfry. At the top of the steps a landingwas built, where the priest stood—you couldn’t see into the altar because itwas enclosed by the iconostasis—then, there were more steps up to the cross.The people stood on the ground, with the cross at the top and the priest inthe middle. It was at that service that I understood that the priest is just anintermediary between heaven and earth.The first liturgy served at the central altar of the Church of the Presentationof the Mother of God was on the Feast of the Dormition on the 15/28thof August, 1988. This has always been the main church of the monastery,and it is as large as some city cathedrals. We had already been using the sidealtar, dedicated to St. Nicholas, but this service was a real joy, because itwas the first time we were able to serve in the main altar. After the service,the namestnik asked, “Is it possible that by the feastday of St. Amvrosy, (the23rd of October), we can restore the whole church?” The feast was less thantwo months away and there was an immense amount of work to be done, butI said, “We have to try.”Then it started—we worked day and night. A week before the feast, we senta bus to Kaluga to bring the diocesan seminarians and a truck for beds fromthe nearest military post for the pilgrim workers. There was only a weekleft until the feast, and during this week about a hundred people came towork nonstop on the church. Everyone was doing something. To keep thework organized, the head of the project stood in the middle of the church fortwo or three days, saying, “Put this here, take that there. Put the floor here,the iconostasis there.” It was like an anthill. By St. Amvrosy’s feastday, thechurch was ready. It was whitewashed, the marble floor had been laid, andall of the icons were up. It was a blessing from God.So many people came for that first liturgy that they couldn’t fit into thechurch. It was the first feast of St. Amvrosy’s repose in the reopened monastery,and in that last week, as we were working so hard, his relics were found.Opposite: Ruined Church of St. Mary of Egypt, Optina Monastery, 1965.2021

Restored Church of the Entrance of the Mother of God, Optina Pustyn, 2010.

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 1 (#44)TITLEThe New Martyrs of OptinaRTE: One of the great tragedies of those first years was the murder of threeOptina monks: Hieromonk Vasily (Roslyakov), Monk Ferapont (Pushkarev)and Monk Trophim (Tatarinov), who were stabbed by a madman on Paschanight of 1993. Did you know them well?Igumen Melchisedek: I was close to Hieromonk Vasily, but Fr. Ferapontand Fr. Trophim came later and I have only general impressions of them. FatherFerapont was very quiet and reserved, and even at the services, he retiredinto himself. He rarely spoke with anyone. Father Trophim, on the other hand,was very talkative. His obedience was to be at the candle box to sell candles;outside of services he drove the tractor. Hieromonk Vasily came the very firstsummer that Optina was reopened and I have many memories of him.In those first summers, many people came to Optina who were not yetbaptized. People are almost never baptized in monasteries—the monks usuallysend them to parish churches, but if there is a real need, we now havea small chapel outside the monastery where we can baptize and the elderlymonks do this.In these early years, however, I once asked for permission to baptize a groupof three or four young people who had come to us. I was told, “Go ahead, butdo it in the evening, so that no one knows. So I went to Fr. Vasily and asked,“Do you know first aid, if one of these people starts to drown?” (laughter) Itturned out that Fr. Vasily was a very good swimmer,” so I said, “Well then,assist me.” So, we started the baptismal service at 11:00 at night, followed bytheir first confessions, and at dawn, with a cross procession there and back,we baptized them at the Paphnuty-Borovsky spring about a kilometer fromthe monastery in icy cold water. The spring is three or four meters deep andas they went down the stairs Fr. Vasily held them by the hand so that theywouldn’t fall. I have such impressions of that night! In the morning when thebrothers came into church, the newly baptized Christians were there. Theystood through liturgy and received Holy Communion. One of them became amonk at Optina, and the others came back for years afterwards.Many people felt that Fr. Vasily would be a future elder. He was interiorlyvery disciplined, prayerful, humble, and well-read in Holy Scripture and theChurch Fathers. Even when he was a deacon, he gave sermons. They wereOpposite: Bright Week 1993 funeral for New Martyrs Hieromonk Vasily, and MonksTrophim and Ferapont, murdered on Pascha night at Optina Monastery.2425

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 1 (#44)optina’s second springvery short and deep, built on the works of the Holy Fathers. After his death,we remembered that Fr. Vasily had begun one of his last sermons with St.Peter’s words, “I think it right, as long as I am in this body, to arouse you byway of reminder, since I know that the putting off of my body will be soon, asour Lord Jesus Christ showed me.” (2 Peter 1: 11-14)The last I saw of Fr. Vasily was at the Paschal cross procession. There weremany priests already at that time, and each priest was given an icon from thechurch to carry; Fr. Vasily carried the Resurrection icon. After the procession,during the Paschal Matins, Fr. Vasily was sent into the altar to do theproskomedia. At the Paschal service in Russia, we wear white for the liturgy,but before we change into our white vestments, we kiss each other threetimes. When the priests came into the altar we had already changed intowhite and Fr. Vasily, who had been asked to do the proskomedia, was still inred. I came up to him and said, “Christ is Risen!” He looked at his red robe,and at our white ones, and said, “I’ve already risen.” He didn’t say, “In truthHe is Risen,” but what he’d said was kind of a joke. We laughed because itwas a nice joke, but it turned out to be prophetic when he was attacked a fewhours later. Red is the color of both martyrdom and of resurrection. Afterwards,he carried the icon of the Resurrection in the procession. It was a sortof foreshadowing.I had once worked in a hospital emergency room, so after Fr. Vasily was attackedI went with him in the ambulance—Fr. Vasily, the nurse, and myself. Iasked him, “Can you hear me?” and when he nodded yes, I told him, “Be patient,we’ll soon be at the hospital.” He gave out a long sigh, “Good.” Workingin the hospital, I had seen many dying people. They were troubled, almost alwaysbegging for help, but Fr. Vasily was quiet, accepting whatever God senthim with patience. His wound was mortal, however, as the knife had piercedthe large blood vessel to the heart and there was much internal bleeding. Thedoctors were surprised that he managed to live even a few hours.When we entered his cell after his death, there was nothing except a bed,books, and a table. He was absolutely an ascetic, yet this was combined witha warm love for people. When he took people on tours of the monastery hewas so loving and glad to serve them that it was hard to see an ascetic in thissmiling man. We usually think of ascetics as severe.RTE: When we heard at our monastery in California that the three monkshad been killed, it was as if our own brothers had died, and I understoodOpposite: Optina Podvorye Church of Holy Apostles Peter and Paul, Moscow, 2010.2627

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 1 (#44)TITLEthen how close all monastics are. People who were at Optina at the timehave told me that during the funeral in Bright Week, there was a very strangemixture of joy and sorrow.Igumen Melchisedek: When people tell you there was joy in our souls, thisisn’t true. The atmosphere was terrible. It was such a loss. We understoodwith our minds that they were in heaven, but our souls and bodies felt as if ourright arms had been cut off. In those days, one would have had to have beenvery spiritual to be able to truly say, “Yes, they were martyrs and it is betterfor them.” It was only afterwards that we slowly became aware of this. Therewere only about forty monks then, and we were always together, like a family.RTE: Weren’t you also at Optina when they translated the relics of Elder Nektaryin the 1990’s from his place of exile in the village of Kholmisha, aboutsixty kilometers from the monastery?Igumen Melchisedek: I wasn’t at Kholmisha when they took him from theground, but I was here when the relics were brought back, and I’m a witnessto another story connected to Elder Nektary. I’d gone to Kholmishawith Fr. Philaret, where we met a man whose father-in-law had given ElderNektary shelter when he was driven out of Optina. The father-in-law’s namewas Denezhkin and he told his daughter, this man’s wife, that Elder Nektarylived a very modest life in the village. People still came to him all the wayfrom Kaluga and Moscow for confession, and he prayed with them mainlyat night. For some reason the priest of the parish church there didn’t accepthim, and when they asked the elder if he wanted to be buried outsidethe church, behind the altar, he said, “No, bury me in the village cemetery,because at the church it will be worse than a pig field.” Denezhkin didn’t understandhow a church could be worse than a pig field, but in the 1930’s thechurch was closed. Afterwards they began to have market fairs, with drinkingand dancing in the big field all around the church; they even danced onthe graves. The son-in-law saw all of that himself.Thus, St. Nektary’s foresight saved his relics, and he was buried in thefurther village graveyard with a cross above the grave. If he had been buriedbehind the altar, all would have been broken and trampled down. OnMount Athos the monks believe that if someone has pleased God very much,when they dig out the bones after three years to place them in the ossuary,Opposite: Restored Entrance to Skete of the Forerunner, Opina Monastery, 2009.2829

Road to Emmaus Vol. XII, No. 1 (#44)optina’s second springthe skull will be brown. Most often skulls are whitish grey. St. Nektary’s isyellow-brown, and although there are often natural cracks in the skull anda natural seam that can form a cross, St. Nektary’s skull has two crosses onhis forehead.Chairman Malenkov, Marshall Zhukov, and Elder NektaryAnother story told to me by Denezhkin’s son-in-law was that the villagersalways claimed that in 1926, Elder Nektary had a visit from two young soldiersenrolled in an officer’s training course in Leningrad: Georgy Malenkov 5 ,who would later succeed Stalin as the Chairman of the Council of Ministersand Georgy Zhukov 6 , who became Marshall Zhukov, Russia’s Commanderin-Chiefduring WWII. They had come to visit Elder Nektary at Kholmishabecause they were afraid of Stalin: top officers and government officials werealready being tried and executed in purges that would escalate in 1935-7,prior to World War II.Denezhkin knew of the conversation: that the two young men had askedthe elder if they should go on with their careers or just hide in the shadows.Elder Nektary told Malenkov, “You study. You will be a great statesman,but only for a short time.” In fact, Malenkov held the chairmanship of theCouncil of Ministers from March 1953 to February, 1955, for twenty-threemonths. Elder Nektary also told Zhulkov to continue his studies, “Yourtalent will save Russia.” Zhukov eventually became Marshall of the SovietUnion, and commander of several different fronts—a major figure in winningthe Second World War. Zhukov was not publicly a believer, and at firstI doubted this story, but now they say that he always secretly carried an iconof the Mother of God of Kazan with him.After I heard this, I did some research in the Great Soviet Encyclopedia….(reading from his notes), “In 1926, Zhulkov went to study in a year-long5 Georgy Malenkov (1902-1988): Of Macedonian extraction and the great-grandson of an Orthodox priest,Malenkov was a Soviet politician, Communist Party leader and close collaborator of Joseph Stalin. AfterStalin’s death, he became Premier of the Soviet Union (1953-1955) and in 1953, before being overshadowedby Nikolai Bulganin and Nikita Krushchev, was considered the most powerful politician in the USSR. Duringhis years as chairman, he was an outspoken opponent of nuclear armament and in 1961 was expelled fromthe party and sent to Khazakstan to manage a hydroelectric plant. Once out of the public eye he became apracticing Orthodox Christian and since his death, his daughter has used her inheritance to fund the rebuildingof many churches.6 Gregory Zhulkov (1896-1974): Marshall of the Soviet Union (the highest possible military rank) servedin WWI under the Tsar, and in WWII as commander of the Leningrad and Kievan Fronts. Zhukov playeda pivotal role in winning WWII, and emerged as the most decorated general in the history of both ImperialRussia and the Soviet Union.officer’s training course in Leningrad. After some months he was given aleave for two weeks. He and Malenkov, who was studying with him, took atrip on horseback from Leningrad to Bryansk, eleven to twelve days, about1,000 kilometers. From Bryansk he went to his native village, a place calledStrelkovka in the Kaluga Governorate to visit his mother.” Now the village ofKholmisha was on his way from Bryansk to Strelkovka, and this is why I believethat there is a real possibility of them being there in 1926. Afterwards,when they became well-known, a secret visit would have been impossible,even if Elder Nektary had still been alive. Malenkov studied with Zhukovin the officer’s course, so it is indeed possible that they went together. Thevillagers would have no way of knowing these details, so their linking thetwo names together at that precise time would have been nearly impossibleunless it had really happened. Zhukov went on to study for another twelvemonths in Leningrad at an advanced officer’s training course. Just as St. Sergiusof Radonezh blessed Dimitry Donskoy to fight the Tatars, so did ElderNektary bless Zhukov: “Study. Your talent will save Russia.”RTE: I remember that Helen Kontzevitch, the wife of Orthodox writer IvanKontzevitch, who acted as a spiritual mother to Fr. Herman Podmoshenskyand Fr. Seraphim Rose of St. Herman of Alaska Monastery in Platina, oftentold them, “Remember, there were many monasteries, but there was onlyone Optina!”Fr. Melchizedek: My life is connected to this.RTE: What impression would you like to leave our readers with?Fr. Melchizedek: Strange as it may seem, Optina grace is now in Optina.Not only because there are some special monks here, but the spirit of oldOptina itself is here. Why is this? Because the Optina monastic principleshave been restored: services, revelation of thoughts, the Jesus Prayer is beingpracticed, the study of the heritage of the Optina elders is available, andthe books have now been published. Earlier, only a few monks had seminaryeducation, now it is ninety percent: the brothers just read and soak it all in.Not only are the holy walls restored, but the Optina spirit has been revived.The most valuable, the most precious thing that Russia has now is this spirit.Pavel Florensky once said that Optina Monastery is a golden cup into whichthe best spiritual wine of Russia has been poured. My wish for each of yourreaders is that, if only once, you come to Optina.3031

Orthodoxy in IndonesiaAn Interview withArchimandrite Daniel Bambang Dwi Byantoroby Thomas HulbertWhen Archimandrite Daniel, the founder of the Orthodox Missionin Indonesia, came into the little bookstore in Amsterdam where wehad arranged to meet, he was fresh off the plane from Jakarta, a fl ightof many long hours. Although he was tired, I could not persuade himto sit down; instead he inspected everything in the bookshop, visiblytaking great joy in small things. Father Daniel’s incredible journeyfrom Islam to Orthodoxy has taken him from Indonesia to Korea,Mt. Athos, the United States and Europe. The very idea of traditionalChristianity in Indonesia, long a Moslem-dominated country, bringsup clashing images – the colorful southeast Asian culture watered forcenturies with devout Islamic practices, now nurturing the strugglingseed of Orthodoxy. Indeed, Fr. Daniel’s own story is like one out of theGospel itself, its disparate elements reaching harmony in Christ.Fr. Daniel Bambang Dwi ByantoroI had imagined that he would be a tall, emaciated ascetic, whosedoctoral education and theological studies would make me strain tofollow his thought. Instead he is short and round with an angelic facewide enough to contain his almost continual smile and a wisp of a beardthat reminded me of an Oriental sage. I was immediately disarmed byhis down-to-earth accessibility – he took off his shoes and put them bythe door, and we promptly sat down to lunch. We had not been togethermore than a few moments before I felt that a good friend had cometo visit after a long journey. Soon, a different side of him appeared,the ceaseless activity of a missionary. He made telephone calls in avariety of languages, quickly prepared his bags for the next phase of hisjourney, and checked his e-mail for missionary correspondence. It toowas varied: leaders of various Christian groups asking for informationon Orthodoxy, meetings to be arranged, requests for pastoral counseling,and, of course, news about the current frightening persecution ofChristians in Indonesia. Yet he never lost his childlike brightness andrelaxed manner.Thomas: How do you approach the souls that come to you? If they areMoslem how do you work with them and how do you explain the differenceThomas Hulbert is the Western European correspondent for Road to Emmaus

Road to Emmaus Vol. 2, No. 3 (#6)Orthodoxy in Indonesiabetween Christianity and Islam. How do you draw them in?Fr. Daniel: I think that in any missionary work, you must first of all understandthe culture of the people and you have to be able to speak within thebounds of that cultural language, because otherwise your word cannot be heardor understood. So, when you talk with a Moslem, you must understand theMoslem mind. Don’t just try to throw in words and phrases that are familiarto Christians, to Orthodox, because they will not be understood by a Moslem.First of all, when you talk to a Moslem, you have to emphasize that God isOne.Thomas: Because they already believe this?Fr. Daniel: Not only because they already believe this, but because they accuseus [the Christians] of having three gods. That is the problem. So, you have toclear up the misunderstanding that we worship three gods. Don’t try to useour traditional language, like Father, Son and Holy Spirit – because for them,that is three gods! In their minds, the Father is different, the Son is different,the Holy Spirit is different. For myself, I emphasize that God is One, thatthis One God is also the Living God, and as the Living God He has Mind.Because if God didn’t have a mind, I’m sorry to say, He would be like an idiot.God has to have a mind. Within the Mind of God there is the Word. Thus,the Word of God is contained within God Himself. So, God in His Word isnot two, but one. God is full with His own Word; He is pregnant with Word.And that Word of God is then revealed to man. The thing that is containedwithin – like being impregnated within oneself – when it is revealed, it is calledbeing born out of that person. That is why the Word of God is called the Son:He is the Child Who is born from within God, but outside time. So, that iswhy this One God is called the Father, because He has His own Word Who isborn out of Him, and is called the Son. So, Father and Son are not two gods.The Father is One God, the Son is that Word of God. The Moslem believesthat God created the world through the Word. So what the Moslem believesin as Word, is what the Christians call the Son! In that way, we can explain tothem that God does not have a son separate from Himself.Thomas: So the Moslems see our idea of the Son of God in terms of physicalsonship.Fr. Daniel: Yes, of course. And God does not have a son in that way, that’strue. He is not begetting in the sense of a human being giving birth. He iscalled the Father because He produces from Himself, His own Word, and thatWord is the Son.So because God is the living God, He must have the principle of life withinHimself. In man, this principle of life is man’s spirit. God is the same. Theprinciple of life within God is the Spirit of God. It is called the Holy Spirit.But the Holy Spirit is not the name of the Angel Gabriel, as the Moslemsunderstand it. The Holy Spirit is the living principle, the principle of lifeand power within God Himself. This One God is called the Father becauseHe produced from Himself His own Word, which is called the Son, and theWord of God is called the Son because He is born out of the Father eternally,without beginning, without end. This One Living God also has Spirit withinHimself. So, Father, Son and Holy Spirit is one God. This is the way we explainto Moslems about the Trinity, and we should not try to use our languageof “Father and Son, co-equal, co-...” something like that. Even though it isour Christian terminology, they will not understand this. The purpose is notto theologize to them but to explain the reality of the Gospel in a way thatis understandable to them. This is point number one: you have to be clearabout the Trinity.The second point is this: the basic difference between Islam and Christianityconcerns revelation. In Islam, God does not reveal Himself. God onlysends down His word. “Revelation” in Islam means “the sending down of theword of God” through the prophets. And that word is then written down andbecomes scripture. So in Islam, revelation means the “inscripturization” ofthe word of God while in Christianity, it is not the same. The Word was sentdown to the womb of the Virgin Mary, took flesh and became man. Namely,Jesus Christ. So, the two religions believe that God communicated Himself toman by means of the Word, but the difference is how that Word manifestedin the world. In Christianity it is manifested in the person of Jesus Christ andin Islam it is manifested in the form of a book, the Koran. So, the place ofMohammed in Islam is parallel to the place of the Virgin Mary in OrthodoxChristianity. That is why in Islam the Moslems respect Mohammed, not as agod, but as the bearer of revelations. Just as the Orthodox Church respects theVirgin Mary not as a goddess but as the bearer of the Word of God, who gavebirth to the Word of God. Incidentally, the two religions both give salutations,to Mohammed for the Moslems and to the Virgin Mary for Christians. TheMoslems also have a kind of akathist, like a paraclesis but to Mohammed!It is called the depa abarjanji – in Orthodox terms it would be a “canon” toMohammed, because he is the bearer of the revelation.Thomas: So Mohammed is venerated like a saint?Fr. Daniel: He is venerated, yes. Very much so. But there are also the SufiMoslems, who sometimes believe that Mohammed was “already there,” likethe Arian misunderstanding of Christ. In their view, Mohammed was the“first created soul,” for whom the world was created. This is called the Nor-

Road to Emmaus Vol. 2, No. 3 (#6)Orthodoxy in IndonesiaMohammed. So, the purpose of Islamic mystics is to be like Mohammed, toimitate him.Thomas: To be the bearer of the Word?Fr. Daniel: As Mohammed was.Thomas: So, that is why Sufi mystics are perhaps not so legalistic?Fr. Daniel: Yes, they are more mystical.So, for us, the image of the Church is the Virgin Mary. We are called tobe like the Virgin Mary in our submission to God. The Virgin Mary is thepicture, the image, or I should say, the icon of the Church. Mohammed isthe “icon” of the ideal Moslem man, and because of that the way we worshipdiverges. In Christianity, because the Word became a man, became flesh, forus to be united with that Word we have to be united with the content ofthat revelation. What is the content? The incarnation, crucifixion, death andresurrection of that Person. In order for us to be united with the content ofthat revelation, we have to be united in that Person, namely in the death andresurrection of Jesus Christ. How? Through baptism. And we also have to beunited with the life of the resurrection of that incarnate Word. How? By theHoly Spirit, through Chrismation. So, the sacraments are very important forus because God became man. He sanctified the physical world so that theHoly Fridayphysical elements of nature can be used as the means by which we are unitedwith the person of Christ in the sacraments.In Islam, however, because the word becomes a book, the content of thebook is writing. It is not flesh. So, that is why in order for a Moslem to unitewith the content of the two-fold revelation (that God is one and that Mohammedis His prophet) one has to recite the source of revelation – because it isa book. But you cannot be united with or immersed in a book, you can onlymemorize the content of the book in the original form, namely in Arabic.So, Arabic scripture is the form of that revelation. The God-Man Jesus is theform of that revelation in Christianity. In order for a person to be initiatedinto Islamic revelation, you must confess the creed: “I confess that there is noGod except Allah, and that Mohammed is the Apostle of Allah.” When youconfess that, you become Moslem. There is no baptism, you are not unitedin the death of anyone, you are only united to the form of the revelation. Tostay united to the revelation, you must keep the prayers. In prayer you recitethe Koran, so five times a day you pray, five times a day you immerse yourselfin the ocean of divine revelation, which is the Koran. Prayer itself is the sacramentof Islam. In order for us Christians to be immersed in the form of therevelation, which is Jesus Christ, we have to partake of the Body and Bloodof Jesus Christ continually. In that way we are united to Jesus Christ, while inIslam the recitation of the Koran is the most important thing, because it is aform of sacrament to the Moslems.So those are the basic differences. This is a way to understand the Moslemmind instead of just arguing against them.Thomas: Would you say that most Muslims are conscious of this theologicalaspect of God and man’s relationship to Him?Fr. Daniel: Yes, of course, through the Koran, through the prophets.Thomas: In Islam, is a person’s manner of life of secondary importance to thecorrect understanding of the form of revelation?Fr. Daniel: In the manner of life, Islam refers again to the form of revelation,which is a book. The content of the book is writing, the writing is law, so thelaw has to be obeyed. If we have the imitation of Christ and His teachings,they have the imitation of Mohammed and the Koran. That is why the life ofa Moslem is dictated and governed by the law of the Koran, while our life isdictated by the law of Christ in the Holy Spirit.Thomas: What is the difference then between following these two laws?Fr. Daniel: In Islam, there is no new birth, just a return to God, which meansrepentance. This is called submission to God.

Road to Emmaus Vol. 2, No. 3 (#6)Orthodoxy in IndonesiaThomas: And that is the meaning of the word Islam, “to submit?”Fr. Daniel: Yes. Islam means submission to God. That is the way we have tounderstand the difference between the way of life of Islam and of OrthodoxChristianity. There are some parallel ways of thinking, but very different content.The main difference is that in Orthodox Christianity the Word becameflesh and in Islam the word became a book. That is the main difference.Thomas: How do Moslem converts to Orthodoxy sustain their belief in thepredominantly Moslem society of Indonesia? Do you have communities ofOrthodox Christians who live together and support each other in the hostilereligious environment, or is the parish way of life more common?Fr. Daniel: No, we don’t really have any special kind of community where welive together. We are spread out geographically like other Christians, and wecome to the church for services. But as to how we withstand the environment– the way I do it is that I teach very strong Bible classes in Indonesian. Everyday I have Bible study before Holy Communion. In between Orthos [Matins]and Liturgy there is always Bible study. And in my Bible study, there is alwaysa comparison between Christianity and Islam, all the time. It reminds peoplethat this is Christianity and this over here is Islam. For example, I ask questionslike: “OK, in nature which is higher, a human being or a book?” Beingformed by Moslem culture, some of them say “a book.” So then I’ll ask them,“Which is higher, then, revelation of God in the form of a human being orin the form of a book?” Of course, revelation is higher in the form of a humanbeing. They can see that from God Himself. So, God the Word becomeflesh, the Word become man, is higher than the word which became a book.That’s number one. Second, if in the past God sent down His word throughthe prophets in the form of a book, namely the Old Testament, and the OldTestament has been fulfilled completely in the form of man, Jesus Christ, isit possible, after the Word of God has been fulfilled in man, that God wouldrevert to the old way, sending a book again? Of course not! When the Wordhas become man, it is already complete. And that Man, Jesus Christ, is stillalive! So, it is impossible that God would again send another revelation in theform of a book. From our point of understanding, it is not possible. For us,the most perfect prophet and the last revelation of God is Jesus Christ. Thereis no need for any other revelation. This is the point I emphasize again andagain. They understand this quite well. So this is how we keep holding ontothe path of Christ in spite of so many attacks from the Moslems.Thomas: The Moslems pressure the Christians, then, knowing that they cantempt them with these deeply-rooted cultural ideas?Fr. Daniel: Yes.Thomas: Maybe you could tell us more about this. What are the difficultiesthat Christians encounter in a Moslem environment?Fr. Daniel: You know, when you are living among a Moslem majority, sometimesyou are afraid of being asked about your faith. Christian people whohave been formed in a Moslem environment cannot always explain themselves;and Moslems, fearing that Christian “heresies” will spread are always ready toattack – about the “three gods,” about “worshiping a human being,” about thecross, about all the fundamental beliefs of Christianity. Christians are oftennot ready to answer these things. Also, almost every morning all of the IndonesianTV channels broadcast about Islam. There is no other religion beingaired. Everyone is bombarded with Islam, the mosques are plastered with loudspeakers and people are always talking against Christianity. The police do notdo anything. In this way, we have been psychologically defeated. Many booksare written attacking Christianity and there is no way to answer them becausewhen a Christian tries to answer about his faith he has to criticize Islam andthis is very difficult. There will be a reactionary demonstration against him. Inthe city of Solo, there is a man by the name of Achmed Wilson who becamea Christian. He is now on trial in court because he was asked on a call-inradio program what he thought about Mohammed, and he answered that hebelieved as a Christian. So, this is a great problem for him now. Things likethis are very common.Thomas: So there is no real religious freedom?Fr. Daniel: No. Don’t even think about it. It is very difficult when you livein such a society. You are allowed to criticize the idea of God because god isa general term. The Buddhists believe in a god, the Hindus believe in a god,the Christians believe in a god, but don’t criticize Mohammed because that isdistinctly Islamic. You can criticize the idea of God, you can become an atheist,but don’t say anything about Mohammed or you’ll be in trouble.Thomas: How do former Moslems who convert to Orthodoxy cope withfamily situations? Are they able to continue to live with their non-Christianfamily members? Are they accepted?Fr. Daniel: Some of them are accepted and some are not. There are cases whenthey return to their former beliefs, to their families, and confess Islam again,although when they meet me they still say that they believe in Christ. Theydo believe and they worship secretly in their homes, but they cannot come

Road to Emmaus Vol. 2, No. 3 (#6)Orthodoxy in Indonesiato church. Several of our people are like that. Some of the families are better.They are more open and they let their children continue in their Christianfaith without being disturbed. It differs with each person, from area to area,and even from one ethnic group to another. Some ethnic groups are morefanatical than others.Thomas: How do you encourage Orthodox Christians to conduct themselvesin public given this dangerous environment? We here in Europe often readabout persecution and martyrdom in Indonesia.Fr. Daniel: I always teach them that if there is no possible way to escape (evenif we have been trying to be good and obey the laws of society), if we becomeknown as a believer, if they stigmatize us as unbelievers as heretics or whatever,then it is obvious there is no other way – if martyrdom comes, then we haveto accept it. If you cannot escape being a martyr, do it! Go for it! I teach thisin church, and I say, even to myself, that there is no other way. But still, we donot try to provoke other people. Even if we evangelize, we evangelize nicely,explaining our faith like: “this is your faith and this is our faith.” We do notdegrade other people’s beliefs.Thomas: How would you encourage Christians to look at Moslems? Thereare two tendencies in the West: either to unconcernedly accept Islamic peopleand ideas regardless of their growing numbers and cultural and religiousIndonesian priest, Fr. Alexios, during weddinginfluence; or to see them as bogey men responsible for many of the world’scurrent political problems. Of course, we know that as individuals there aremany wonderful individual Moslem people who are charitable and generousto their neighbors regardless of creed, but for many of us the overall influenceof modern Islam, particularly on Christian populations, is a question. We donot want to be naive on one hand, nor uncharitable on the other. Do youhave any thoughts on this?Fr. Daniel: It is a difficult problem indeed, even for us, because there is always adialectical relationship between us and them. In Indonesia, because they are themajority, we have to befriend them, there is no other choice. Individually, wemust treat them as anyone should be treated – with love. But theologically wehave to stand on what we believe to be true, there can be no compromise.Thomas: What do you see for the future of Orthodoxy in Indonesia?Fr. Daniel: I cannot see into the future but I believe that Orthodoxy willcontinue to grow. It depends on more people receiving an Orthodox education– the more the better. Right now in Indonesia, Orthodoxy is still identifiedwith myself. When people think of Orthodoxy they think of me. We needto have more young people educated. Sometimes people do not understandthis – but I try my best. I try to send as many people as possible to Russia, toGreece, but I am not a bishop so I don’t have the power to arrange things soeasily. If I become a bishop, I will send as many people as possible abroad togain experience and education in Orthodoxy, so that when I die, someone cancontinue the work. This is the main point.Thomas: Do you think that there is a likelihood of the Orthodox in Indonesiaacquiring their own bishop?Fr. Daniel: I don’t know. I can’t say anything.Thomas: How is the Indonesian Orthodox community structured?Fr. Daniel: We have two levels of structure, actually, because the OrthodoxChurch is recognized outwardly as being under the State Department ofReligion, as part of the Protestant contingent. This is because there are fiverecognized religions in Indonesia: Roman Catholic, Protestant, Islam, of course,Hindu and Buddhist. We have to fit somewhere within these five categories,so we fall under the Protestants. In terms of our relationship with the government,we have our own leader. I appoint a lay person who is responsible to me.Within the Church, we are directly responsible to the Archbishop of HongKong, who is under the Patriarch of Constantinople. On the parish level, wehave a council with a president and I am the, ah…, I don’t know what I am!

Road to Emmaus Vol. 2, No. 3 (#6)Orthodoxy in Indonesia(laughs) There is the president of the parish council and I am the priest there…the proistamenos, who directs the president. There is also a vice president, asecretary, a treasurer and such. We also have organized religious education,and a youth organization, called Hanna Arhim in Hebrew. We use a Hebrewtitle to show the Moslems that we are also Semitic,* we are not Western. So weuse a lot of Hebrew expressions in presenting ourselves to the outside, ratherthan Arabic, because Arabic is sometimes seen as imitating Islam. We havea women’s association called Saint Sophia, a priests’ association, and otherthings like that.Thomas: How does Orthodoxy in Indonesia differ in tone or custom fromthe West? What is it like in your churches?Fr. Daniel: Of course it is different, first of all because we are not Westernpeople, we are Asian. So, we express our faith in an Asian way. We do not sitin chairs, we sit on the floor on a mat. We put off our shoes when we enterthe church, women wear the kafer [traditional Indonesian garb] and a veil. Wehave adapted some other cultural expressions, like in the wedding ceremonywhere we use our traditional Indonesian attire. We do not use koliva for thedead, for instance, because we do not eat wheat – it is difficult to find! Weuse rice. We make use of what we have. It’s very Indonesian, very Asian. So,the Orthodox Church in Indonesia is more eastern than in Greece or Russiaor Europe! We can’t be afraid for Orthodoxy to take on local forms.Thomas: Can we use this as a measure of the depth of penetration of Orthodoxyinto a culture?Fr. Daniel: Yes. The content is visible in the form. That also goes for peopleconverted to Orthodoxy in the Greek or Russian traditions who are themselvesnot Greek or Russian.Thomas: Does the Indonesian Orthodox community have services in Indonesianor in Greek?Fr. Daniel: Of course, in Indonesian.Thomas: What about other languages?* [Ed. Note] As a result of the strong Arabic roots of Islam, Moslems of other ethnicbackgrounds also view themselves as religiously Semitic peoples, the descendants ofAbraham, like the Jews. Most Eastern peoples view Christianity as a Western phenomenonbecause of its associations with colonialism and missionaries from the West. Fr. Daniel’sintent is to show Orthodoxy as the fulfillment of Indonesian culture - a corrective toChristian missionaries who have tried to impose Western life-styles as an integral part ofChristian belief.Indonesian congregationFr. Daniel: Sometimes if we have guests, here and there we have somethingin Greek or English. Sometimes even in Russian.Thomas: Indonesian remains the main liturgical language then, one that allthe different ethnic groups in Indonesia speak?Fr. Daniel: Yes. I have translated the services into Indonesian for this purpose.Thomas: Generally, I don’t think that Western people know how varied thelanguages and cultures are in Indonesia.Fr. Daniel: We have 350 different languages and dialects in Indonesia, withone national language. I have translated the service books into Indonesian,and now I’m beginning to translate them into Javanese, which is my ethniclanguage. The services are also in the Patlak language, which is spoken onSumatra and there are plans for translation into the Balinese language, spokenon the island of Bali. This is going slowly.

Road to Emmaus Vol. 2, No. 3 (#6)Orthodoxy in IndonesiaThomas: So local parishes will be able to celebrate in their own language?Fr. Daniel: Yes. And if there is a need, they can always celebrate in Indonesian.Thomas: A more personal question for you. What are the greatest temptationsin your work?Fr. Daniel: (Laughs) To leave it because it is too difficult. I know that I have mytalent, and that I can always teach. Sometimes I just want to go be a professorat the university. Again and again, God has helped me to stay where I am, toremember my calling. It is difficult because I have a lot of responsibility to payfor this or that, to help young people begin theological study at the university.I must pay for these things every month. I think I have more responsibilitiesthan people who have their own children!Thomas: What is your greatest sorrow?Fr. Daniel: My greatest sorrow . . .when I’m trying to do my best, and I amaccused of things that I did not do.Thomas: And your greatest joy?Fr. Daniel: The greatest joy is when someone is converted to Orthodoxy.Thomas: Who are the saints who have helped you, the ones you feel closestto?Fr. Daniel: My own patron saint, St. Daniel the Prophet. I chose that namebecause I believe that he had such a strong heart. He had courage against theking and the lions; and I am living among the lions, let me tell you. I wantto have his courage.Thomas: Being a Semitic-oriented people and having less exposure to thesaints of traditional Orthodox lands, would you say that Indonesian Orthodoxare more drawn to the Old Testament saints?Fr. Daniel: Prophet Daniel was my choice, not for Indonesians in general. Iencourage people to be close to their own particular saints. For the time being,the spiritual orientation of the Indonesian people is not so much in the directionof the saints as it is to the Holy Scripture itself. This is still the foundation.Thomas: The traditional orientation reflects a more Islamic pattern with aChristian substance?Fr. Daniel: Yes. I’m speaking here not of the belief but of the pattern. Onehas to introduce things slowly. There is less emphasis on the saints, althoughthe Orthodox, of course, believe in them and they have their names. In ourcultural traditions we also have an understanding of sacred places, especiallygraveyards, the burial place of local saintly figures. This is not strange to us, itis not new to our culture. But I’m afraid that new converts look at the saintsin their old way of understanding – the dead people in their past, the worshipof ancestors. This is a concern here, as it is in a lot of native cultures. So, I tryto emphasize more the understanding of Scripture in the light of Orthodoxbelief.Thomas: As someone who has traveled extensively and seen Orthodoxy inmany places, do you have a word for people in the West? What can we do todeepen our faith?Fr. Daniel: As Westerners, to deepen your faith you must go back and explorethe original Western culture that was sanctified by Orthodoxy, the Christiansociety that was oriented towards God. These are your roots. From there, tryto sanctify the culture you are in. Don’t let yourselves be eroded by contemporaryWestern culture, which is very shallow. Also, try to be true to the Faithas such, don’t try to “revise” it according to the mode of the time. If you donot keep the Faith as it is, you will be undone by your surroundings. Try tointerpret your life within the context of your faith. When people do not haveculture, they do not have a root – when they do not have a root, they areshallow. If Orthodoxy is only understood superficially, outside of the contextof its historical rootedness, then we also become shallow – it is just a fad, likeany “new” religion. We have to be able to identify ourselves with the wholeflow of history within the Church. I think that it is very important to acquireour identity within the Church.Thomas: So that means going “against the flow” because Western cultures arefor the most part losing their Christian world-view.Fr. Daniel: Of course. It is difficult, but the Lord went against the flow, didn’tHe? Yes, He did.Thomas: In our age of electronic communication, how can Orthodoxy adaptto a technological society and yet not partake of its aimlessness?Fr. Daniel: Use the means available as a vehicle. Use the Internet as much aspossible for preaching Orthodoxy, use television as much as possible to reachpeople. This is better than just letting the Hindu gurus or whoever take it over.Why shouldn’t we make use of it? We waste a lot of opportunity if we don’t.Thomas: Do you think there is a boundary, past which Orthodoxy shouldn’tintegrate with the media?

Road to Emmaus Vol. 2, No. 3 (#6)Orthodoxy in IndonesiaFr. Daniel: Yes, when we interpret our lives in terms of that media. But whenwe use this tool and fill it with a new meaning, the Orthodox Christian worldview,then it becomes an instrument for Orthodoxy.Thomas: One more question about intercultural relationships. Many of usknow little more about Asian spirituality than the contemporary popularpresentation of “Eastern religions” that has torn many Westerners from theirroots, and substituted a blend of pseudo-mysticism and esoteric dead ends.What of real spiritual value can the West learn from the East?Fr. Daniel: A lot. A major lesson is the steadfastness of the Eastern peoplein their religiosity. The Eastern people are very religious in many ways, andit is very strange for Indonesians to hear from Western people that they don’tbelieve in God. It is very strange for us, because for us Asian people, God isso obvious. How can anyone not believe in Him? The grandeur of natureand everything right before you? How is it possible?! So, if you deny Him,you are left with only your own small mind, and you are very limited. But,that you cannot see the Hand of the Maker behind the grandeur of nature!It is difficult for me especially to understand this Western way of thinking. Iunderstand much through reading and my travels, but still, it is strange thatpeople cannot believe in God. I think this is not only a matter of mind, buta matter Fr. Daniel of heart. baptising The new heart converts becomes callous.For Eastern people, the reference is immediately to God. Either to God or togods, but still, the reference point is spiritual.Thomas: Is there anything else that you would like to say, any message to thepeople reading this interview?Fr. Daniel: I want to encourage Orthodox people all over the world to feelthe unity of Orthodoxy. It is evil that Orthodoxy is so divided along the lineof cultures and ethnicity. I want to see the Orthodox feel a oneness: when theOrthodox people in Greece, or Russia, or Indonesia, hearing of the sufferingof others, can feel and say, “This my brother.” None of this, “You are Greekand I am Russian,” or, “I’m sorry, I’m Indonesian.” What kind of Orthodoxy isthis? It’s not catholic, not universal. The compartmentalization of Orthodoxyis not Orthodoxy.Thomas: This division is even more visible as our world comes closer together.Fr. Daniel: Yes. The second thing I would like to say is that I want Orthodoxpeople to be enthusiastic about their faith. To preach the Gospel – to preach itand not just keep it close and say, “This is mine, my culture.” Also, when youpreach Orthodoxy, don’t preach your particular expression of Orthodoxy – thatsomeone has to be Greek or Russian. Orthodoxy is not Greek or Russian; it isuniversal and for everyone. If you become Orthodox, do not associate yourselfprimarily with being Greek or Russian – associate yourself with the Church.This is the way it has to be. When I converted to Orthodoxy in Korea, I didnot associate Orthodoxy with any particular culture, I associated Orthodoxywith the whole history of the Church. Orthodoxy has the responsibility tocome out of its own cocoon, to tell the world, “Here we are!”Thomas: Don’t you think that our own time is especially good for this becausewe are being forced together into a so-called “global village?”Fr. Daniel: I think so, yes. But then again, I believe that among all the Orthodoxethnic groups, there have always been people who have understoodthis, and these people now have to take the lead in bringing Orthodox peopletogether across ethnic and cultural lines. If not, the new Orthodox Churchesin Asia and in Africa will be very troubled. Speaking as an Asian, we don’t wanta new kind of colonialism. I want to warn the people from Western countrieswho are Orthodox and who want to do missionary work in Asia or in Africa– do not try to impose your own brand of spiritual colonialism. We havehad a long history of colonialism and we will resist it. If traditional culture issuppressed and if there is a lack of recognition of local leadership, the nativeChristians will eventually revolt. This is no longer the time of “You are lower

18 Road to Emmaus, Vol. 2, No. 3 (#6)than us, we are white, therefore we are better than you.” No, no, there is notime for this. Truly, there has never been a time or place for this, because weare all human beings created equally in the Image of God. That is why wehave to value the culture, value the local people and recognize their talent andpotential. It is like this.

SOULSIN MOTION:THESPIRITUAL LIFEOF TEENAGERSFr. Artemy Vladimirov, Moscow Patriarchal priest of All Saints Church in Moscow, Russia,shares his pastoral experience of helping hundreds of Orthodox teenagers find their way tofaith in the contemporary world.RTE: Father Artemy, you once said that to raise a child properly, you shouldbe attentive to his upbringing from the first day you discovered you wouldgive birth. How do parents go about this?FR. ARTEMY: St. John of Kronstadt says that raising children is best illustratedby a bird that sits on its eggs, protecting them with its own warmth.The moment the mother abandons the eggs, if the break is too long – somefive or ten minutes – the chicks will never hatch. They will perish. This isquite a good analogy for raising children. When children appear from thewomb, they may be quite normal physically, but in their moral and spiritualaspects they are like embryos; they are incapable of self-growth, they donot have the power to develop independently. If children are not warmed bypersonal, parental love from the top of their head to the bottom of their feet,they risk remaining morally dead to eternal truth, to the laws of God, and toHis service. According to St. John this is the “axiom of love,” and he addsthat, “these very generations, abandoned by their parents and deprived ofpersonal love, will be organized by Satan for the struggle against JesusChrist and His Church.” He said this in 1908, only a decade before theBolshevik Revolution.Psychologists and doctors know that a future mother begins to form theSt. Nina’s Way, Georgia.3

Road to Emmaus Vol. VII, No. 1 (#24)SOULS IN MOTIONinner character of her child before birth, and it is common knowledge thatduring the first three years of earthly life, you are to be enveloped in grownuplove, so that your personality can manifest and your heart and mindflower. It is just as clear that, from the earliest months of pregnancy, wemust avoid any expression of irritation or hatred in the presence of the childand particularly towards him. We should protect our child from any hint ofmoral corruption, particularly in the realm of lust, including sexual conversation(even on television), and the cursing and rude words that vilify theears and hearts of innocent children.The most important thing is to try to create a moral environment, a realmof love, that will act like morning rain on small plants.RTE: In speaking of this encompassing love from conception, there aremany people in the West adopting children from second- and third-worldcountries who have often had a very difficult start in life, with moral orphysical hardships and years in institutions. What can be done for them?FR. ARTEMY: We know that it’s very difficult to erase the dark spots from adamaged young soul that has been wounded by the world. These childrenoften differ very much from their happier contemporaries, as if they bear animprint that can hardly be erased even in the most pleasing circumstances.I’ve seen many of these children who look like young grandfathers; childishin their physical development, but with souls that are old and tired.Particularly if they are older, they can hardly escape from previouslyacquired vices of cunning, hypocrisy, a cold pursuance of their own aims,and they often have a knack of accommodating themselves to different peoplefor their own purposes.RTE: But we still have to care for these children.FR. ARTEMY: Certainly. We are to understand their grief; to be tolerant,patient, and more importantly, we are to wait on God and not ascribe successto our own efforts. These souls are often above human effort. It is onlyGod’s grace that can visit the heart and make someone a real child in Christ.If we are brave enough to take up this cross, we are to be wise and far-seeing.We are to expect unpleasant things and not become upset, lost, or furiousbecause, after taking a child like this, we do not have a moral right tochange the decision. As Saint-Exupery says, “We are responsible for thosewe have tamed.”RTE: Is it better to try to talk to teenagers in a language close to their own(as a friend who is interested in the things they are interested in) or in anadult language of life-experience?FR. ARTEMY: As for me, in communicating with teenagers, I believe that ateacher or parent should have a notion of teenage life: their psychology, thesubjects of their youthful interest, the laws of their thinking, their sympathiesand tastes; but when speaking with them, you shouldn’t distort your own language,artificially accommodating your wordsto their way of expression. For myself, the bestmethod is to use a literary language. Certainly, Ican insert this or that contemporary word to letthem understand that I know everything abouttheir world – but my own speech is to be clean,classical, high, satiated with rich content, sothat it can enrich their mind and heart, awakensome unknown feelings and thoughts, and raisetheir perception.My words are to change their mind, but notto violate it, not to influence their subconscious.This is not to be a sophisticated invasion,but a visitation of holy grace via kind, loving,sincere language. If some of my expressions are unknown to them, ifFr. Artemy Vladimirovthey can’t be grasped by their minds, this doesn’t matter. The main thing ismy heart, which embraces the child and leaves him free, giving him the spiritualwarmth that helps the soul to open and spread its wings. This is thebest way of communicating, because the moment you begin imitating jargonor slang, you become too familiar and too sweet. This is a great mistakebecause children are very perceptive and they catch every hint of pretenceor deceit.RTE: How do you begin talking to a teenager who is already hostile, who thinksthat adults don’t understand, or don’t have anything of value to say to him?FR. ARTEMY: When I hear confessions, it isn’t rare for parents to bring a subjectthat looks like a young porcupine with his needles spread, ready to rejectanything you say to him. As a pastor or friend, you are to be clever and experiencedenough not to read him moral sermons, but you are to be radiant45

SOULS IN MOTIONwith sympathy. You are to feel his soul. Perhaps it is not completely crushed,but merely hidden or depressed; nevertheless, it is a childish soul, beautifulin its inner freshness. It is like a flower that has been bent to the earth by astrong wind and cannot stand unaided, or like parched grass battered by thebeams of the sun. You are not to pull at this soul with your fingers, with yourmoral injunctions, but simply to pour cool water – your cheerful approach,your skillful and delicate care, your intelligent way of communicating whenyou guess what he thinks and feels, helping him to smile at shortcomings.You are not to insult him, not to hurt him, but help him to get rid of this orthat lack. You should be like an icon-restorer – an artist who doesn’t dare tohack away at the damaged part, or to daub fresh paint over it, but gently andattentively cleans all the spots and disfigurement with small, delicate brushesand sponges until the original image is restored.Certainly, the hearts of our teenagers are often like icicles and it would benaïve to suppose that in a single hour, or at one meeting, you will achieve anyresult. No, you are to become interesting for them so that your communicationis pleasant, so that they are not wearied by your “lessons,” but realize thatyou are opening new horizons, that you understand and love them, that youdon’t despise them.RTE: You said that we are to “feel the soul.” Can you explain how?Photo Courtesy Elena YermelovaFR. ARTEMY: The main tool for this is your prayer and your love. We shouldbe like those underwater plants that, although fixed to the ocean floor, havethe God-given ability to explore the space around them for a great distancewith subtle radar-like signals. With us, this spiritual sixth sense is implantedinto our hearts. When your heart is calm and filled with prayer, you may beable to feel the soul and understand it, not outwardly, but from within, andthen you might guess how this soul thinks and perceives the world. You areto embrace the experience of another human being. It is your love that helpsyou to understand your neighbor, and it is love that will help you choosethe words that can be adopted by his heart. This isn’t the practice of a coldpsychiatrist who observes his patient and makes some mental calculations,but it is your love, which has the spiritual aim of helping him save his soul,of ridding himself of anything that hinders him on his path to the kingdomof heaven. It is very similar to a parent’s love, when we don’t judge our childbut hold all of his joys and sorrows close to our heart.7

Road to Emmaus Vol. VII, No. 1 (#24)SOULS IN MOTIONRTE: Thank you. Now, what would you say is the essence of the “teenagecrisis”? What happens psychologically and spiritually in adolescence?Obviously, much is due to the physical changes.FR. ARTEMY: Our soul is tied to our body, and therefore these two parts ofour human nature influence one another. An experienced parent or teachercannot ignore these characteristics of adolescence. Certainly, we are toknow how hormones manifest both physically and in reactions, moods, andattitudes. This needs to be understood by every adult so that we are notcaught off-guard.Concerning the religious-moral aspect, we know that in this periodteenagers are prone to hesitate, to doubt. They become judgmental, critical,and biased against the most important moral axioms of life. They are ready todoubt everything. They proclaim that the most important thing for them istheir rational mind, and at the same time they quite easily adopt the mostridiculous opinions, particularly those suggested by the mass media andpopular culture. These opinions can all be combined into one notion: Protest!The more wildly this protest can be expressed, it will. It is an intentionalpose against society, its fundamental truths and conventions, and asOrthodox physicians and psychologists say, all this mad mass media alluresour teenagers and even makes them ill. Its goal is to ruin their psychology.If you want to hurl protests at society, you are to invent something that goesagainst rational sense: dye your hair strange colors, insert a metal ring intoyour tongue or eyebrow, or tattoo your body (which is forbidden by the OldTestament). These acts are not only provocative, they are a violation ofone’s personal integrity.So, when we come across a group or an individual poisoned by this rebellion,you are first of all to feel, to sense the atmosphere, and then to understand thatthis will not be a struggle of notions. It is not on the logical level that you willcommunicate with them. It won’t be possible to conquer their minds by “proving”some rational points, but you are to touch their hearts, to melt their heartswith your wise love, to attract them to the realm of purity, beauty, and truth,not by dragging them there or violating their freedom.You are to be a person who lives not only by his own forces, but isstrengthened by the breath of the Holy Spirit. You are to be taught by ourloving saints, our own contemporaries like St. John Maximovich ofShanghai and St. John of Kronstadt who never despaired, but had the innerforce to penetrate into the heart of the person they were talking to with theirlove and prayer.RTE: That is obviously the ideal to strive for, but practically speaking, whatdoes a parent or guardian do in the situation of a moment if your childcomes home and announces that he is going to dye his hair purple? Or if ateacher has a child in his class who is causing problems. At some point, youmay have to violate that free will.FR. ARTEMY: When you have love in your heart, you have the moral right toimpose something on a child. You certainly limit their freedom when it transcendsborders that are ruinous. We teachers give direction to help our studentspursue their aim, even if they don’t want to do so at the outset of our mutuallabor. It is impossible to effect the process of education and upbringing withouta good and sensible influence. To give unlimited freedom, and to let thembecome chiefs and bosses over grown-ups is equal to awakening demonicinstincts in our children. It makes a halloween of school and home. But themost important element in discipline is to have God’s love in your own heart.RTE: One of the problems in the West, and I imagine increasingly here inRussia, is that they are under so much pressure from the unChristian valuesof society and school.FR. ARTEMY: We don’t have much strength. As St. Paul says, we preach toeveryone, hoping to save a few. We are to work in the most difficult circumstances,knowing for sure that if thirty teenagers listen to us, perhaps onlythree will be influenced by our zealous words and allow the spiritual seed topenetrate into their souls.It is interesting that in the Russian language, the Slavonic wordnakazaniye, “punishment,” is translated into modern Russian as “instruction.”To punish is to instruct, it is not to execute. Therefore, even some sternand hard methods of making a child obey have a sensible and good aim,to make him meek, mild, full of respect, to implant some virtues in his heart.Discipline is certainly necessary, and we have an unheard-of problem in WestGermany now, where there is a special police force that searches for parentswho spank their children, not with any violence, but with their hands.RTE: We have that in parts of America as well.89

SOULS IN MOTIONFR. ARTEMY: This is unbelievable nonsense, and it is a serious proof of thecrazy way of things in this world, when everything is being turned upsidedown. This is not humanization, but damnation; the appearance of a seeminggood whose real goal is to establish chaos in society. Discipline is thefoundation of all success in bringing up children.RTE: Can you give some examples of discipline that wouldn’t push the childinto resentment, that instruct rather than cause a reaction?FR. ARTEMY: It is difficult for me to construct a palace of theory, but Iremember some cases in my own experience as a classroom teacher. In oneinstance, one of my twelve-year-old students not only behaved badly, butlike a monkey who tried to make everyone laugh, attracting the attention ofthe entire class to himself, and was bold enough to make some comments onmy teaching. What was worse, the class was not indifferent but was poisonedby this destructive influence.I thought, “What am I to do?” Should I beat him with the pointer over hisknuckles, as in Dickens’ England? Am I to shout at him as if he were a fallenspirit? Shall I take him by the collar and throw him through the window?No, no, and no. But what could I do?So, I approached him, I made some ante-commentaries on his remarks,perhaps even praised him for his cleverness, and proposed that he occupythe first seat in the first row so that I could more easily communicate withhim in order to ask for his advice… I tried to make him my supporter, toassist me in giving out new material, and approving my methods of discipline.And so my teaching was mostly addressed to him, with the spellboundattention of the entire class. Certainly, I tried to remain loving, smiling,noble, open-hearted, but I immersed him, enfolded him, in my personality,so that he couldn’t find a single word to answer. He was permeated with myknowledge and my level of thought, and he couldn’t go on functioning as theclass clown. It was an interesting approach to this type of hooligan, whosoon became my ally.RTE: Yes. Isn’t there a time, though, in these teenage struggles when someof their protest may reflect the growth of rational thought and the discoveryof themselves as individuals, distinct from the adults around them?FR. ARTEMY: Certainly, but to have this growing consciousness of one’sYoung Georgian Pilgrim.11

Road to Emmaus Vol. VII, No. 1 (#24)SOULS IN MOTIONpersonality become a conflict between parents and children is an artificialproblem created by literature and the mass media. The most important thingis to make children understand that they are to serve their parents, theirfamily, and society. They are not the center of attention, they must be gratefulfor their birth and for their parents’ labors. We should reject the cup ofpleasure for our children. We are not to satisfy all their caprices and self-will.RTE: And how do we curb rude and opinionated behaviors without dampeningthem?FR. ARTEMY: In our talks with youth, we should explain things not astheories, or with some psychological terminology, but by using examplesdrawn from life. We should try to talk about the difference between beingan individual and a person, about what makes you a personality and whatdeprives you of this gift. We are made in the image and likeness of God; thisis the mystery of personality. When, for example, you are rude and aggressiveand try to gain respect and compliance by means of your fists or yourvenomous tongue, does this make you a person? A tiger, yes, a poisonoussnake or a python, yes, but a person, no.Or, when your lips open only for the purpose of loosing some insulting,sarcastic words, throwing them like mud that defiles everything it touches,is this the quality of an interesting person? No. It is just a demonic featurethat makes all sinners look alike. All lustful people are quite similar, as areall drunkards, all murderers. They don’t have their own face, but theirfeatures are hard and dark, like voracious beasts or vultures. It is only virtue –mildness, patience, real humility, especially purity, wisdom, courage,discernment – that makes you a real person and makes your spirit uniqueand unrepeatable, different from everyone else.To be a person is not to manifest your ill “individuality,” your pride, arrogance,and provocation, but to radiate God’s grace, which brightens youreyes, your face, your words. In talking with our children, each of us is to bevery attentive to himself, accumulating these Christian qualities in our ownheart, that we ourselves may become a real personality. It is important notto read moral lectures – “this is bad,” “this is good,” “this is polite,” “this isimpolite” – but you should try to be open to the mystery of life, to showthe divine beauty of Jesus Christ, and the courage of His disciples whoconquered the demons of lust, arrogance, and pride.RTE: How can parents overcome their own negative emotions of worry, fear,anger, etc. when their child refuses to obey or exposes himself to dangerscommon to this age?FR. ARTEMY: Certainly, we should know that demons don’t sleep and thatthey wait for us in our own homes. Here in Russia we call them “housedemons” – and by this I mean that that passion which most often seducesyou in your own surroundings and is often connected with a certain relative,particularly your own child. I know very mild people, noble and refined, whocannot abstain from irritation when talking with their own mothers. Also,we know good parents – educated, very pious, who pray from their hearts –but who also carry many negative emotions about their child. They lose thehabit of smiling, and tend to only criticize, to express negativity. They poketheir fingers into all these sore places, and although loving their children,they do everything to push them away. Certainly, this is demonic wisdom,it is the demons’ own network. If we insist on being like the silly fly thatinvariably settles on the spider’s web, we shouldn’t blame the spider. Blamedoesn’t help when we are caught in the web.RTE: So how do we disentangle ourselves?FR. ARTEMY: We are to be very, very attentive, to exercise self-controlthrough deep, inner observation of the heart and spiritual readiness tooppose any movement of this negativity. We are to explore our own heart,and the moment something appears in your conscience, the instant that youdetect the slightest hint of such a heinous vice, you are to smash thisBabylon baby against the rock of prayer.We should try to be quiet, sympathetic, loving and smiling when we communicatewith teenagers. Priests know this fact: if you want to attain somemoral goal, if you want to produce a change in a human heart, you are not tobe dry and harsh and dark, but, as the Holy Fathers advise, we are to sayunpleasant things in pleasant words, and these must be words from the heart.RTE: Thank you. We’ve been talking about the problems of adolescents,but what good things are happening at this time that we can help develop?FR. ARTEMY: We know that a teenager differs from a younger child, first of allin his mind, which is capable of analysis, of developing moral standards forhimself, of seeking the meaning of life, searching for ideals, and yearning to1213

SOULS IN MOTIONdedicate himself to some noble cause. At the same time, the passionsbecome very intense and pull him the opposite way, particularly in everythingconnected with sexual matters. A battle begins in his heart.It is very important for this adolescent to find himself in appropriatesurroundings, to have good examples, some grown-up friends who canshare their worthy experience of life with him, who will inspire him to set hisfeet firmly on the path of sacrificial love. If he is left to himself, in most caseshe will attach himself to a crowd with low taste and wild passions, corruptedby the world.A universal advantage of these early years is innocence, which is theintegrity of soul and body, a gift given to us from birth. But often, like prodigalsons we waste this treasure, partially or fully, slowly or suddenly.If we call this period dangerous, it is only because of a lack of wisdom, oflight-mindedness, stubbornness, and of being influenced by bold andbrazen people who too often mislead and rob our youth.Certainly, we should know that teenagers differ from grown-ups in thattheir hearts are still integral, that in the space of a moment they can followthe summons of heavenly grace. In an instant, a teenager can cast off all theobstacles that hinder him from moving forward on the field of good.RTE: And this is why we sometimes see teenagers change very quickly whenthey are introduced to church life, and they find someone or something toinspire them?FR. ARTEMY: Yes. Their hearts are not so burdened by sin, and these sins arenot yet habits or rules of life. Many teenage sins are made by mistake.Teenagers are often misled, they are not clever and wise, they are silly, andtheir sins are a result of ignorance, not decades of hardened consent. It isnot difficult for them to become good Christians, once they believe in Christwith all their hearts.RTE: How do we make chastity something tangible and desirable? Can yougive some concrete ways?FR. ARTEMY: First of all, when we speak to teenagers about chastity, whichnowadays is warred against most of all by both demons and fallen men(particularly in the mass media), the most important thing is your ownpersonal life, your own piety, your own incessant war against uncleanthoughts and desires, your personal chastity. If you are not successful in this15

Road to Emmaus Vol. VII, No. 1 (#24)SOULS IN MOTIONrespect, if you don’t repent of your thoughts, how can you help someoneelse remove the splinter from their eye when you have a log in your own?The second thing is the glorification and veneration by the OrthodoxChurch of the Most Holy Mother of God. She is a visible ideal of embodiedlove, beauty, and inner chastity. Her holy face pushes away hosts of lustfilleddemons. This is a fact. Therefore, the most important thing is to teachour children to reverence the Holy Virgin: to speak with her as their mother;to reveal all their grief, sorrows and joys, so that they feel the presence ofthe Heavenly Queen in their everyday life; to look to her icon before theydecide to do anything wrong or unclean. If they have this reverence, youmay hope for success, because the kingdom of vice and lust reigns in thosecountries where you see only portraits of politicians, actors, and rock stars,not icons of the Mother of God.The third thing is to teach our children to wage spiritual war, to discernthoughts and feelings and to qualify them as holy or sinful. If they learn tooppose lust in their hearts and to keep their minds clear of uncleanthoughts, they will strengthen their will in turning away from the muck ofthe present life. They should know that if you tell lewd jokes or stories, ifyou dress provocatively, this means that you are collaborating with demonsand have become their obedient instrument. Is this a role that you want tofulfill? We are to be angels, we are to help other people come to thekingdom of chastity, of love and truth, not to be like a bomb placed under askyscraper by Bin Laden.RTE: A Russian reader asks, “Teenagers see that in Russia today lifecontradicts all that you find in the Gospel. If you forgive your enemies theytake advantage of you, if you don’t spend immense energy making sureyou earn enough to eat and drink, soon you find yourself overwhelmedwith problems connected with lack of money. How do we bring up ateenager to be both devout and yet fit into the world in a useful, normalway? Many parents are afraid to let their children grow up too mild, tookind, too honest, and psychologically unprepared for the hard life thatawaits them here.”FR. ARTEMY: Nowadays in Russia, many Orthodox parents and teachersunderstand that we are to bring up our children like warriors, as defendersof their motherland. They are not only to be pious, but strong protectors ofthemselves and their friends. Turning to our past we find our nationalheroes, our warriors, our Bogatiri – St. Ilia of Myrom, Alyosha Popovitch,and Dobrynya Nikitich. They were like lions and tigers in the struggle, butnoble and generous to their conquered foes. They rode to victory as if onwings. So we have the ideal of the Russian warrior-saint, who is ready tofulfill the command of Jesus Christ to give his life for his friends. It is quitea popular idea now in Russia to teach our children some skill in fighting,not in the spirit of oriental warfare, but as Russian Orthodox patriots whorespect force not for itself, but as virtue submitted to a moral ideal.Nevertheless, we are not to use physical force, wickedness, and treacheryas a path to earthly success. No, here in Russia, Christians know that everylie proceeds from the devil and that honesty, being true to your word,a sense of duty and self-sacrifice, are the most precious and necessary qualitiesof a real human heart.In our days, television programs and computer games are designed to ruinthis way of thinking and to implant other ideals that are quite opposite tothe Orthodox faith. Therefore, we should remember the words of JesusChrist, “Be wise as serpents and gentle as doves.” This is the best answer tothis question; not only to be “gentle as doves,” but to be “as wise asserpents.” We are not to be deceived by the ideology of our enemies. We arenot to submit to bold and godless aliens, we are not to be enslaved by rudeand merciless invaders, but we are to be ready to oppose and to counterthem. This is a manifestation of Christian love. As St. Philaret of Moscowsays, “Love your own enemies, vanquish the enemies of your motherland,and despise the enemies of God.”RTE: Sometimes teenagers ask difficult questions like Ivan Karamazov inDostoyevsky’s Brothers Karamazov. If they are not satisfied with theanswers given by the Church and keep asking these questions, what shouldparents tell them?FR. ARTEMY: We believe that our spiritual mother, the Orthodox Church, hasall the answers, and it is our fault that we don’t have these answers at ourcommand. But we must also remember that a good answer is not necessarilya precisely formulated rational syllogism. A good answer is a word permeatedwith sense, truth, and love. A good answer comes from turning your thoughtinto the depth of your own mind and heart. A good answer helps you tohumble yourself before God, to feel His incomprehensibility – that our life1617

SOULS IN MOTIONis a mystery and that you cannot overwhelm this mystery with the coconut ofyour mind. It is only a prayerful person, who, at the very moment a questionis asked, can give an answer that will satisfy a proud mind.Certainly, we should read more of the Holy Fathers, so as to have a goldentreasury of their enlightenment and wisdom in our hearts. We are not tobe stupid, narrow-minded, worldly, dull and boring in our meditationsconcerning God and human life. Many great spiritual fathers, like St. Ambroseof Optina, also had unique ways of speaking. They were not prolific in theirsermons, they were not philosophers who gave long speeches, but theirwords were to the point, sometimes in the form of proverbs, with somerhyme or idiomatic expression, often filled with good humor. Their wordsoften made a person laugh, but their essence contained a mustard seed.Every adult Christian should aspire to this height of wisdom, so that hiswords are like a precious jewel. Our Lord Jesus Christ is to be our teacher inthis respect because people listened to Him with delight and sweetness.They followed Him for three days and nights, even forgetting about food.They said, “No one has ever spoken like this man.”Of course, it is difficult to master this skill of spiritual speech, but if youdon’t fear to study when you are 35 or 40 years old, certainly God will helpyou learn these mysteries of better communication with your children.RTE: This Russian mother also asks, “Is it necessary to gradually overcometeenage worldly habits, such as a liking for rock music, clothes, language,etc., and to try to make them look humble and chaste and silent, or is itenough if they have faith in their hearts and remain normal teenagers?”FR. ARTEMY: Faith is not an artificial collection of moral principles, but to havefaith in your heart means to simultaneously have appropriate deeds in yourhands, light thoughts in your mind, clean words in your mouth. It is aProtestant approach, I am afraid, to talk about only having faith in your heart.If you have a fresh rose, it cannot but blossom, and you feel its presence in theroom even without seeing the flower. You cannot support a burning fire withoutfeeding it with the ever-living root of our Lord Jesus Christ.But it is one thing is to understand all these things, and another to havesmall successes in your attempts to bring up children. Certainly, I think themost important thing is to choose a good school, a more or less normal schoolwhich will keep your child clear of sexual perversion, drugs, corruption,aggressiveness. Here in Russia we still have many such schools. Otherwise19

Road to Emmaus Vol. VII, No. 1 (#24)SOULS IN MOTIONyou will be like a builder who constructs with his right hand and tears downwith his left, or you will be like the ancient Sisyphus of Greek mythology,whose eternal doom in the underworld was to roll a heavy boulder to the topof a hill, only to watch it roll back to the bottom, from where he would haveto begin again. It is enough to have a television set on constantly to ruin andobliterate all the moral principles you are trying to write in the purity of achild’s heart.What is most important are not only these attempts to choose a correctschool and environment, but whether your own parental, guardian, orteacher’s heart works or does not work. If you are a person of good taste, witha real Christian heart, who prays for those in sorrow and trouble, if your wordis clean and devoid of any hint of uncleanness, if your soul is rejoicing, andeven radiant with God and His grace, this is what your child is waiting for. Inthis case, you don’t need to read sermons, you are only to talk, to spend timewith him. You don’t have to press upon his personality, but if you arouse hisinterest you will enliven his desire to be with you, to be your friend. Pascaldemonstrates a law of physics, that we have an equal level of water in neighboringvessels, and this law is quite applicable in the domain of ethics.RTE: Yes. I believe that this mother’s point was also that even good children,if they go outside the home, are going to run into teenage music, clothes,and books. How far do we insist that they abide by our standards?FR. ARTEMY: Certainly, we are to be very attentive to them, to reproach andreprimand if necessary, as a sculptor carefully chips away the unwantedportions until the ideal form appears. We are not to let our children do asthey please. If you want to have a meek child, capable of listening to you,who can apply himself to study something deeply, he first needs disciplineand obedience. These are fundamental.We are to be very attentive to all that they listen to, and know who theyare spending time with, because St. Paul doesn’t say incidentally, “Be notdeceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.” Bad music or anunclean book is an invasion of this world into the heart of our child, and weare to be like skillful physicians, to foresee these phenomena and to givesome antidotes, take some preventative measures. We are to guess the newinterests of our children and take care that they have good taste so that theycan determine for themselves what is nasty and what is high and beautiful.The effort of modern culture is to overturn all these aesthetic criteria withspiked green hair and rings in the tongue.To teach these high ideals of beauty and ethics, and more simply, goodtaste, parents must begin from the child’s first years. It is the parents’ choiceto dress their five-year-old daughter in pants, to allow senseless televisionprograms, and low music. We prepare them for the seductions of theteenage years by injecting good music, good reading, clean language, so thatthey won’t easily be poisoned by their contemporaries. If a child has lovingparents who are very firm in their Christianity, if they abide by the teachingsof Christian culture, with appropriate clothing and keep the fasts, even ifthese children are attracted by the world and its tastes, sooner or later if wehaven’t oppressed them, they will return.We in Russia are very fortunate because we have a great layer of Orthodoxpeople in society, and many Christian families consist of not just one or twochildren, but four or five or eight. This family is a small world, a tiny city,where there are all levels of growth.RTE: How would you respond to a teenager who asks, “I love the Church, butI like to listen to heavy-metal music too. What’s wrong with that?”FR. ARTEMY: Let us listen to St. Paul who says that everything was permissibleto him, but not everything was useful. If you are sincere, my dear kid, youare to feel how this heavy metal music affects your mind and your heart.If, after the concert you have an inner desire to pray, if you want to take careof old men and women, if you see some unhappy people and feel innercompassion for them, I will agree that heavy metal music is a good remedy,and valuable for moral progress. But if you feel yourself as stupid as a pig,aggressive as a tiger, poisonous as a snake, or lusty as a crocodile, don’t askme such questions again.RTE: Here is another question from a Russian mother: “Young people whocan be outwardly recognized as Orthodox with modest clothes and facialexpressions, downcast eyes and usually silent, often seem unnatural, as ifthey are acting a part. In fact, they often look down on their “worldly”friends. I’d rather see them in brighter clothes, talking freely and laughingaloud, which seems healthier for their age. Some are quiet by temperament,but on the whole isn’t it better for young people to behave in a mannermore natural for their age?2021

SOULS IN MOTIONIn saying that some external behaviors are good and others bad – I’mnot talking about mortal sin here, but about a child being molded intosomething that may not be him – aren’t some Orthodox Christians andpriests trying to level everyone? This doesn’t seem to be what Christ did tothe people around Him.”Photo Courtesy Elena YermelovaFR. ARTEMY: Let us remember our holy Father Lev of Optina, who named allthat you have depicted here with one word: chimera, that is, an illusion. Beinga saintly person with the Holy Spirit breathing through him, he was verynatural, without a hint of hypocrisy or heterodox sweetness. He could even beharsh and rude when it was necessary to help a sinner return to the path ofrepentance. This is a great problem for new monasteries in both Russia andthe West, where many young people are taught some external monasticbehaviour, but abandoned totally in what concerns the inner podvig of cleansinghearts. This is a tragic thing when new Pharisees and hypocrites grow upand are filled with envy, jealousy, wickedness, like black angels in their robes.But, if we are so bold as to try to help others, we must not only be unimpeachableourselves, but we must also remember the sovereignty and nobilityof the human soul, which like a precious jewel, must be treated with greatcare and respect. Orthodox Christians are to be far from psychologicalmanipulation and the secular techniques of dealing with subordinates.Heads of monasteries and spiritual leaders are not to exploit those underthem, turning them into robots under the guise of “obedience.” The peoplewho come to your monastery are God’s sheep, not your own, and you shouldnot use any human being as a medium to fulfill your own interests. You areonly a gardener whose duty is to soften the soil, to pour fresh water, and toallow the rose its own natural growth, in integrity and freedom.On mundane topics, such as appearance, as a protopriest of a city parish,I only say basic things about appearance in church – your appearance isnot to be seductive, you are to stand in awe before God, with all the consequencesof that reverence in your outward manner. But in my experience ofyoung people, I completely agree – let children remain children, with everythingintrinsic to them. For me as a teacher, it is a precious thing for my studentsto come to love God and each other without losing all the sympatheticfeatures of their age. The most important thing is to create a warm atmosphereof communication, where their hearts can open to the eternal truthsof God and His Love. They themselves won’t notice this because they are23

Road to Emmaus Vol. VII, No. 1 (#24)SOULS IN MOTIONinterested in the lesson, they are eager to listen to you, and your realinstruction is even hidden. You don’t need to pay so much attention to allthese outward things, except for some basics, such as class discipline.RTE: At what point do we let them go their own way?FR. ARTEMY: Certainly, if it concerns drugs or sex, there is a need to explain,to caution, and to prepare them for these temptations. There are no piousinterviews in the world that will free us from the tension of life and thenecessary podvig of personal prayer, day and night, particularly in regardto our children. It is only a mother’s tears poured out in abundance thatguarantees the salvation of her children.RTE: In early teenage years, children feel a need to fit in, while later theywant to be unique. How do you help them balance this so that they don’t gotoo far either way?FR. ARTEMY: It is only our Orthodox belief and life that gives a realconsciousness of God’s presence, when each cell of your being is fed byGod’s grace and you feel the significance of every moment of your life ineternity. It is impossible to find a golden mean between this fitting in andindividual uniqueness except in Orthodox piety. In the life of the Churchevery limb has its own mission, its own service, its own destiny, and at thesame time, all these limbs are necessary for each other. As St. Paul says, ahand does not substitute for a leg. An eye cannot say to an ear, “I don’t needyou.” They are tied together with love and form one body. This problem ofuniqueness and fitting in cannot be solved satisfactorily except inside theChurch, where a child finds his own place, his own service in society, andhis own peace in being required by the other limbs.RTE: We have two interesting comments here from American teenagersabout fitting in: “I’m Orthodox, but none of my friends at church are, andI don’t want to talk about Orthodoxy to my friends.”“We are pressured at school to not let it be known that we are Christian,and I don’t know if I should speak up in class or not. For example, one ofmy teachers lets everyone know that she is pro-choice on abortion. Do Isay anything to my friends or in class about what I believe? Teachers oftenmake political or moral comments that are common in the U.S., but arenot Christian.”FR. ARTEMY: First of all, it is not your duty to preach Our Lord Jesus Christand to tell everybody about the church you attend. Let batiushkas andmissionaries do that, but your place in the world is to be an angel ofassiduity, to be clever and smart and frank and mild and radiant with energyto help your friends in their studies, to support them, not to steal withthem, not to smoke with them, not to fight with them, not to spit with them,not to kiss with them, but you should be like a little sun in your class.In some cases, though, a young Christian is to be a confessor and even amartyr, and when you hear about things like abortion in class, you are to beboth wise and clever. You might say something like: “My little sister said tome, ‘When I grow-up I will never kill a baby in my womb.’ I couldn’t sayanything against this, because I know that I too will never kill any child inmy family.”RTE: How do we keep teenagers interested in Church? Until what age is itright to insist that they come with you, and at what age do you let them maketheir own decisions? If they are very reluctant should you insist?FR. ARTEMY: When this age inevitably comes, this period of doubt, or coldrelations to piety, you are to prepare for it by finding a work for him or herwithin the Church, which may help when the crisis comes. Church choirs,bell-ringing, classes of needlework and vestment-making, being altar attendants,or catechists for young children. But all these things have a secondaryrole, certainly, because it is your own choice to be with Christ or not, to bein church or not, and as we in Russia say, your belief and piety are to besuffered over. Your faith is to be tempered. If you want a living faith you areto suffer in seeking it.Certainly, for younger children it is not a bad approach to simply requirechurch attendance, particularly within a family when all the children areobliged to fulfill this parental rule with no discussion. It is quite right toinsist and to oblige your children to share this time in church on Sunday. Itis the life of the whole family.Also, it is quite natural for a child to obey his parents in his mild years, andup to a certain period a child never invents revolution in his head. He maybe disobedient of course, but this is impulsive, not planned. He is not atheoretical protestant. But if your teenager comes across modern youthtrends and is poisoned with the spirit of this world, he will certainly contest2425

SOULS IN MOTIONparental power over his personality. In Russia we say, “You are waging waragainst the womb that gave you birth.”However, it is a question as to what age, and how hard we should force.Should I tear off his ear and shed his blood in the street while dragging him tochurch? We have a Russian proverb: “Heavenly grace doesn’t commitviolence.” An oppressed soul cannot pray to God. Therefore, we parents are tobe ready for the moment when our children may say, “No, this is not the timefor me. When I am ready I will come to church again. Don’t force me now.”The only remedy in this instance is the mode of life of the whole family, whenthe grandmother, parents, and brothers and sisters are all permeated with theChurch spirit and cannot imagine Sunday without liturgy.Certainly, our new apostate will not be quite at ease with his reforms.He will feel himself a culprit, as someone who tramples on and violates thecommandments of God. He won’t admit it aloud, but in his heart, rememberingthe calm and peace of his childhood, he will feel regret.RTE: Teenagers are spontaneous, and often find it hard and tiresome to praywith prayer-books. What can you do if they find prayer boring?FR. ARTEMY: We have books from former centuries depicting the deep prayerof teenagers, even the Jesus Prayer. For example, in a famous story retold bya pilgrim to his spiritual father, in the Way of a Pilgrim we glimpse theatmosphere of old Russian society and some interesting references to youth.But these are exceptions, because they come about owing to the pleasingatmosphere of a nearby monastery or an extremely pious family, when ateenager is surrounded not only by icons, but sees holy people with his owneyes. He is imbued with piety, and prayer becomes an inner life for him.St. Basil the Great writes that children have a unique nature, that theyare mostly physical beings. This means that they manifest themselves inoutward movement, and it wouldn’t be wise to call them to strict innerconcentration, telling them to keep their minds free of thoughts and imagesand everything that hinders us from meditating on God.Inevitably, children lose their early angelic state during these teenage years,and we are to be ready for this, and not to become upset, because this is theperiod when we to help them develop their minds and widen their intellectualhorizon. They are to master the huge heritage of culture, of the physical sciencesand humanities, and it would be a naïve and strange thing to encouragethem in mystical life only. We find in the Holy Fathers the axiom that faith isOleg, young monastery worker,Optina Pustyn, Russia.27

Road to Emmaus Vol. VII, No. 1 (#24)SOULS IN MOTIONborn by knowledge, and at this period we adults need to give our children aworld-view devoid of inner contradictions: for instance, the problem of theorigin of man, the creation of the world, human history, philosophy.RTE: And as for prayers?FR. ARTEMY: If you have prayers together as a family, you should singwith them, you should vary prayers, insert new prayers so that this newmaterial is of interest to them. Pray for real needs, both their own andothers. Mostly singing, but only a little reading. Murmuring prayers hastily,without feeling and awe is hardly useful. Make it interesting and try toinclude a variety of things, because the most important skill is the ability tostand in the presence of God.RTE: How would we teach that?FR. ARTEMY: Mostly by your own example and your inner conversation withour Lord. Certainly our services are to be mystical invocations of God, butwe shouldn’t tire young children with expanded prayers. After talking withthem about the omnipotence of God and His all-seeing presence, we shouldtry to have them stand in front of God for only three minutes, but in thosethree minutes they should stand like candles, then allow them to relax, theycan sit and maybe even laugh. In our prayer, however short, we shouldapproach God like peasants being introduced to the emperor. As theybecome older they can participate more fully in family prayers.FR. ARTEMY: If you are fortunate enough to have kept your innocence safe,it is a great advantage. If you have not been corrupted, if you have a cleanheart, unmenaced by demons to the awful degree that is often seen withteenagers, you will be able to fully experience the freshness of the world, toembrace an ideal, to fulfill a spiritual aim. In Russia we say that a bad exampleis poisonous, but I would say that a good example is three timesstronger. It is the attracting force of the Holy Spirit, the unimpeachablemoral life of a true Christian demonstrating humility and love. It is mostlyyoung people who feel this beauty, the inner truth of a righteous man, andwho will follow it, overcoming all obstacles, as Our Lord Jesus Christ andHis disciples teach us.In our youth, when we are healthy in body, we are able to exercise a smallpodvig, a spiritual labor. We are not old people whose podvig is to bepatient and endure their infirmities. Youth is one of the most brilliantperiods of human life because you are in your full strength, you can fight fortruth, you can struggle against vice, you can manifest your fidelity to God,and you are ready to suffer in the struggle against vice in your own heart.In our youth we are destined to gain heavenly crowns. It is a time ofspiritual warfare. Isn’t it interesting, important, unique, to be a soldier ofOur Lord Jesus Christ, to gain skill and spiritual wisdom, to be victoriousagainst your own fallen nature? If we work hard for the sake of Christ in ouryouth, we will know the savor of the Holy Spirit for the rest of our lives.RTE: How would you answer this question, asked by an American highschool student of her priest: “Why do I have to be Orthodox? I’d rather beProtestant. I didn’t choose this, my parents did.”FR. ARTEMY: We should describe our Church as a loving mother, whosewarmth and light spread and carry life, and we can tell our young protestorthat a tiny baby, a little Huckleberry Finn, wouldn’t ever change his lovingmother for some alien woman with big teeth and tiny eyes. We in Russia say,“Not all that glitters is gold; not everything sweet is sugar.” Therefore, mydear kid, don’t be hasty in calling this or that group of praying people, “theChurch.” The best answer is go on pilgrimage. Let us visit Russia and see.RTE: Could we close by speaking of the advantages teenagers have in theirspiritual life, as compared to other ages?28 29

BECOMINGORTHODOX:Thoughts on Personhood,the Philokalia and the Jesus PrayerOn February 8 –10 of this year, a member of our Road to Emmaus staff attended a weekendretreat at St. George Antiochean Orthodox Cathedral in Wichita, Kansas, with His GraceBishop Kallistos Ware, the bishop of Diocletia in Great Britain. For new converts who maynot be acquainted with his works, over forty years ago Bishop Kallistos wrote the classicintroduction to Orthodoxy that has never been matched in clarity, depth, or objectivity: TheOrthodox Church. In the following decades, as well as being a lecturer in Eastern Christianstudies at Oxford and pastor of Oxford’s Orthodox parish, he co-translated the LentenTriodian and Festal Menaion into English, as well as four volumes of the Orthodox spiritualclassic, The Philokalia. The debt that the English-speaking world owes for his clear, conciseexplanations of Orthodoxy and his faithful translations of original sources and services isgreat. To that debt Road to Emmaus adds its own for His Grace’s spontaneous willingnessto answer our questions.RTE: Your Grace, many of us have come to Orthodoxy from Catholic,Protestant, or even from unchurched backgrounds, and feel that it is ChristHimself who has lead us here. When we become Orthodox we find such an“embarrassment of riches” — the icons, the services, the patristic tradition,the long history of the Church — that we are eager to plunge in, but oftenwe bring with us an overly rational or an emotional experience of worship.How does a convert immerse himself in the Church in a way that avoidsthese extremes? We don’t want to cut ourselves off from our past and thevaluable lessons we’ve learned along the way, but how do we enter fully intothe tradition? Is the Jesus Prayer an accessible door to a new convert?Photo Courtesy of Ze FarhaBISHOP KALLISTOS: Yes. The first point to take up, which you yourself havebeen saying, is that when we become Orthodox we should see it as a fulfillmentof our past, not as a negation. We should see it as an affirmation of all47

Road to Emmaus Vol. III, No. 3 (#10)becoming orthodoxthat is good in our previous experience. To me, it is always a sad thing whenOrthodox attack the Christian community to which they previouslybelonged. Of course they may wish to say why they became Orthodox, whatthey found in Orthodoxy that they didn’t find previously, but they shouldalso always bear in mind that their previous Christian community, if theyhad one, was perhaps what brought them toOrthodoxy. So, one should see Orthodoxy then asa crowning, as an affirmation of all that is goodand not simply as a break.But having said that, it is true that we bring alot of baggage with us, and some of that baggagewe need to discard. The most importantthing for any non-Orthodox person who feelsdrawn to Orthodoxy, whether they belong toanother Christian community or they comefrom an unchurched background, is that theyshould experience Orthodoxy as a way ofprayer, as a community of prayer.The first thing I say to anyone who isattracted to Orthodoxy and comes to consult me is, “Learn topray with the Orthodox Church.” That means attend the Divine Liturgy (ofcourse they cannot yet have Holy Communion), but do attend the liturgy everySunday if you are seriously interested in joining Orthodoxy. Also, use Orthodoxprayers in your daily prayer times, and here certainly, the Jesus Prayer wouldcome in. I encourage them even before they become Orthodox to start usingthe Jesus Prayer in a simple way, but in a serious and consistent way.So the best approach to Orthodoxy is through prayer. Yes, we must readbooks, we must talk with other Orthodox, but above all, we must learn topray with the Orthodox Church. Now that will not automatically strip offour non-Orthodox attitudes that we may have carried over from the pastbut, at least, this is the place where we should begin.Then, arising further out of what you have said, what does it mean tobe a person? We have a reasoning brain and that is a gift from God tobe used to the full. We also have our emotions, and they too are not to besuppressed. They are to be used in God’s service. But we need to recognizethat the human person is more than just rational faculties and more thanjust emotional aesthetic feeling.This “something more” is what is summed up in the traditional Orthodoxliterature under the two terms, nous and spirit. Nous, in particular, is a verydifficult word to translate. If you just say “mind,” that is far too vague. Inour translation of the Philokalia, we, with some hesitations, opted for theword intellect, emphasizing that it does not mean primarily the rationalfaculties. The nous is the spiritual vision that we all possess, though manyof us have not discovered it. The nous implies a direct, intuitive appreciationof truth, where we apprehend the truth not simply as the conclusion ofa reasoned argument, but we simply see that something is so.The nous is cultivated certainly through study, through training our faculties,but also it is developed through prayer, through fasting, through the wholerange of the Christian life. This is what we need to develop most of all asOrthodox, something higher than the reasoningbrain and deeper than the emotions.RTE: When we are trying to reach thatsomething higher, everything in Orthodoxypoints us to the Holy Trinity and particularlyto the Lord because He also washuman. What would you say is the best wayfor a convert to reach Him? You mentionedthe Jesus Prayer as part of this entering in.Would you enlarge on that?BISHOP KALLISTOS: The Jesus Prayer isindeed a way of cultivating our spiritualvision. It is not a form of discursive imaginationthat provides us with new imaginarypictures about how Christ was; it isnot a way of engaging in an inner theologicalargument that will lead us to new ideasThe nous is thespiritual vision thatwe all possess, thoughmany of us have notdiscovered it. Thenous implies a direct,intuitive appreciationof truth, where weapprehend the truthnot simply as theconclusion of areasoned argument,but we simply seethat something is so.about Christ. It appeals much more directly to the nous, to the heart, to thespirit. That certainly is one way of reaching this particular level of personhoodof which we have been speaking. I do not say it is the only way, and certainlythe Jesus Prayer exists in a context. It is presupposed that those who use theJesus Prayer are taking full part in the sacramental life of the Church and are,in particular, going to the sacrament of confession and receiving HolyCommunion. The Jesus Prayer goes hand in hand with the sacramental life.4849

Road to Emmaus Vol. III, No. 3 (#10)becoming orthodoxI would, however, want to mention more particularly the importancealongside the Jesus Prayer and the sacramental life of the reading of scripture.This, some converts might overlook because they get very enthusiasticabout the icons, the incense, the richness of the Divine Liturgy, but we needalso to think how deep is the biblical, the evangelical element in Orthodoxy.By evangelical I mean the literal sense of living in the Gospels.In Orthodoxy we cultivate a particular way of reading scripture, which wasindeed common to East and West in the early period, although it is perhapsnot so common now in the West. We should read the Bible not necessarilywith a lot of commentaries, but we should simply read the text of scriptureslowly — listening, reading it as if it were a letter addressed to me personally.We need also to thinkhow deep is the biblical,the evangelicalelement in Orthodoxy.By evangelical I meanthe literal sense ofliving in the Gospels.Read it carefully, reflectively, in a meditative,contemplative way but without developinga lot of inner arguments, simply inan attitude of listening.This is the traditional Orthodox way ofreading scripture, not to have open infront of us a great many commentaries,although that has its place, but to readscripture as part of our prayer time — notas a piece of rational study but rather aspart of an act of prayer. We shouldn’t force the meaning of scripture in anartificial way to fit our condition, but nonetheless, as we read we keepapplying it to ourselves, not with elaborate examples thought up from ourimagination but simply by listening. I think if scripture is read in this wayit will help to cultivate a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.And with the Jesus Prayer, let us remember always that it is not a techniqueto induce relaxation or concentration. It is a personal invocation,words of prayer addressed specifically to the person of Jesus, our Saviour.RTE: When I first began reading Orthodox literature, I started with TheWay of a Pilgrim, some years before we had the English translation of thePhilokalia available. Later, when I discovered that The Way of a Pilgrimwas based on a real book, that the Philokalia did exist, I obtained a copywith the hope of, “Yes, here it is. Now I will be able to pray like the pilgrim.”However, as soon as one begins to read the Philokalia you find that not onlyare the writers light years ahead of one’s own limited experience, but thatyou also keep coming up against the concept of the “mind in the heart.”50After four or five chapters you realize that you have no idea of how to applythis, and you sit there wondering, “Is my mind in my heart yet? How do Iget it there? Am I supposed to do something, or will God somehow make ithappen later? Am I supposed to think, am I not supposed to think…?”BISHOP KALLISTOS: Yes. First, the Philokalia is not an easy book. The worksin the Greek edition, at any rate, are not presented in any particular order,or rather the sequence is simply historical but there is no systematicarrangement according to topics. There issomething to be said for just picking thePhilokalia up, reading it and seeing whatGod says to our heart, but possibly we dobetter if we have some help in reading it.If I am recommending particular texts fromthe Philokalia, the ones I suggest are the OneHundred Texts (the Century) by Kallistos andIgnatios Xanthopoulos. That is in the fifthvolume of the Philokalia which hasn’t yetappeared, but you can find an English versionDo not think about“Where is my mind,is it in my heart?”Do not think aboutthe fact that “I amsaying the JesusPrayer.” Thinkrather about Jesus.of it in the earlier translation made from St. Theophan’s Russian text,Writings from the Philokalia on Prayer of the Heart. That is a good one tostart with. Then I suggest from the first volume that people might readHesychius; from the second volume, the life of Elder Philemon in particular;then possibly the shorter writings of St. Gregory of Sinai that are to be foundin the fourth volume.Those are useful texts to begin with, but again, we have to recognize thatthe Philokalia is a difficult book. I think that perhaps when I, by God’sgrace, have finished the fifth volume, I would like to prepare a kind of introductionto the Philokalia, which would contain some of the easier textsarranged thematically. This would not be intended as a substitute for thecomplete translation, but as a way in.A book which can help people because it is simpler and easier than thePhilokalia is the anthology, issued in English under the title, The Art ofPrayer, by Igumen Chariton of Valamo, which has been reprinted. Thatperhaps presents the teaching of the Philokalia, mainly through the wordsof St. Theophan and St. Ignaty Brianchaninov in a simpler form.As to the question of the mind in the heart, I would not recommend peopleto start by thinking about that. I would say, start with the Jesus Prayer51

Road to Emmaus Vol. III, No. 3 (#10)becoming orthodoxitself. Do not think about “Where is my mind, is it in my heart?” Do notthink about the fact that “I am saying the Jesus Prayer.” Think rather aboutJesus. The point to begin with is simply to recite the Jesus Prayer, to containour mind within the words of the prayer. We are to be conscious we arespeaking to Jesus. These are living words of prayer addressed to anotherliving person. Don’t think primarily about, “Where is my mind?” Don’tthink about one’s self, think about Jesus. Contain your mind in the words ofprayer, “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me.” Concentrate onthe actual saying of the prayer and all else will follow from that in the waythat God wishes and when He wishes.RTE: Some people, particularly monastics, say a certain number of JesusPrayers a day, others say it within a set amount of time. What would yousuggest for someone who is beginning?BISHOP KALLISTOS: Both ways are acceptable, but I would suggest to someonebeginning: set aside a certain amount of time but do not attach primaryimportance to the number of times you say it. Actually, you can combineAs St. Isaac theSyrian says, “Idon’t want tocount milestones,I want to enter thebridal chamber.”52both approaches because you will probablydiscover fairly quickly how long it takes you tosay one hundred Jesus Prayers. If it takes metwelve minutes, then I might set aside, say 25minutes, and then I will be saying about 200.But that would just be as a rough guide. Startfrom the idea of how much time you are goingto set aside. The quantity of times we say theJesus Prayer is less important and there are different traditions. Often inGreek use it is said quite quickly, whereas in the Russian tradition we areencouraged to say it fairly slowly.RTE: If one says the prayer with attention and love, for most of us thatmeans saying it slowly. How can one do this in the Greek practice of repeatingit quickly?BISHOP KALLISTOS: I prefer the tradition of saying it more slowly, but I don’twish to judge others because I’ve not said the Jesus Prayer very quickly. Ifyou are saying it in a free way as you go about your daily tasks you may wellsay it more quickly, but I certainly encourage people when saying it in theirprayer times to say it slowly.Now, monastics are often given a rule with a set number of times tosay it. That, I think, is suitable for the monastic life because there you areleading a disciplined life with an elaborate sequence of liturgical services, sothe prayer rule comes in that context. It is a much more structured context.There it makes sense to say, “All right,you say three hundred Jesus Prayers witha set number of metanias, either bowsor prostrations.”For lay-people, though, it is quite agood idea to say, “Well, it is reasonablefor me to set aside so much time in theThrough the Spirit webecome sons in theSon, and with the Sonwe say to the Father,“Abba, Father.”morning or in the evening.” It might be only a quarter of an hour, but thatalready makes a huge difference if you’ve prayed that amount of time. Thenyou work from there, but without being concerned with quantity. AsSt. Isaac the Syrian says, “I don’t want to count milestones, I want to enterthe bridal chamber.”RTE: Thank you, Your Grace, that was wonderful. We have one final questionthat was raised by a member of the audience during your talk, andwhich I thought was particularly important. How does the Jesus Prayer,seemingly addressed to only one person of the Holy Trinity, participate inthe very Trinitarian liturgical and prayer life of the Church?BISHOP KALLISTOS: The Trinitarian dimension of prayer is indeed fundamentallyimportant. There is no true prayer without the Holy Trinity. Youmay ask, “Well, is the Jesus Prayer a Trinitarian prayer?” Not, it is true, inits exterior form, yet if we look more deeply we can find a Trinitariandimension in the Jesus Prayer. First, the Jesus Prayer, yes, is a prayerdirected to Christ, but we speak of Christ as Son of God, and he who speaksof Son, speaks by implication also of Father, so in addressing Jesus asthe Son of God we are certainly including in our prayer an awareness of theperson of God the Father.What about the Holy Spirit? He is not explicitly mentioned in the prayer,but He is, nonetheless, the atmosphere in which the prayer is recited.One of the most important texts in the history of the Jesus Prayer isI Corinthians 12:3, “No one can say Lord Jesus except in the Holy Spirit,”and writers on the Jesus Prayer repeat this particular text from scriptureagain and again. Although the Spirit is not mentioned, nevertheless the53

Road to Emmaus Vol. III, No. 3 (#10)Spirit is there. We are invoking Jesus in the Holy Spirit. It is the purpose ofthe Holy Spirit to bring us to Christ.In our Lord’s last supper discourse, Christ says, “He will not speak aboutHimself, or on His own authority, He will take what is mine and show it toyou.” So, precisely, the function of the Spirit within the Trinitarian economyis to bring us to Christ, and Christ brings us to the Father. In this way,not explicitly, but implicitly, the Jesus Prayer is truly a Trinitarian prayer.One way of thinking about prayer is not to think of it as me talking to God,“Me, one person here in dialogue with God over there.” We could, rather,think of prayer as “Me, entering into the dialogue of love that continuallypasses between the Three Persons of the Trinity.” So, when I pray, it is notso much me praying as that I enter into a conversation that is already goingon. From all eternity there is a dialogue within the Godhead, a dialogue oflove. From all eternity, the First Person says to the Second, “Thou art mybeloved Son.” From all eternity the Second Person replies to the First,“Abba, Father, Abba, Father.” From all eternity the Holy Spirit seals thisexchange between Father and Son. So, when we pray, it is not so much wewho pray, as we who enter into the dialogue of the Trinity. Through theHoly Spirit, we are brought to speak the words of Christ as our own. In theHoly Spirit we say, “Abba, Father,” and so become part of the eternalTrinitarian dialogue.This is the way in which prayer is understood, particularly in Romans 8. Ifwe read that carefully we will see exactly that there is this idea of prayer asentering into the dialogue of the Trinity. We may not feel that immediately,explicitly, with our conscious minds, but that is what is going on. We becomepart of the Trinitarian dialogue of love. Through the Spirit we become sonsin the Son, and with the Son we say to the Father, “Abba, Father.”54

FROM JAINISM TOORTHODOXY:AN INDIANPASSAGEPilgrimage attracts intriguing people the world over, and it was on a Serbian pilgrim bus thatRoad to Emmaus staff met Indian Rahda (Elesa) Dalal and her American husband, SymeonBranson. Our weeks of travel and shared meals provided opportunities for long miles of conversation,and Elesa, with great candor and warmth, shared her colorful Indian childhoodand her long road to Orthodoxy. The pilgrimage was a break from studies: Elesa is workingon a doctorate in Islamic art and architecture, and Symeon is finishing his philosophy dissertationat Notre Dame.Part IIndian Life and CustomsRTE: Elesa, please tell us about your childhood in India.ELESA: Although I was born in the United States, my parents didn’t want meto grow up there because they felt that I wouldn’t be able to acquire Indian values,so we returned to India when I was six months old. When my father dieda year later, my mother, who is a doctor, went back to the U.S. to work, returningto India when I was six. I grew up in an upper middle-class extendedIndian family until I was sixteen, when I came to the U.S. for medical school.I was raised in the town of Ahmedabad, in the state of Gujarat in northernIndia, surrounded by family. My mother has ten brothers and sisters andeach of my uncles and aunts has two or three children. My paternal grandparentsdied long before I was born, but my maternal grandfather marriedthree times, and his last wife, my “step-grandmother,” was alive through mychildhood, as was my grandfather. My father had three sisters, one of whomRahda (Elesa) Dalal3

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 2 (#21)FROM JAINISM TO ORTHODOXYhas a daughter my mother’s age, and I grew up with her two children. Ourfamily is very close. We meet often, and whenever there is a problem it onlytakes a phone call for everyone to gather. It was a good environment to growup in; you felt needed, you felt loved, not just by your immediate family butby all your relatives, no matter how far away they might be.RTE: You must have had a large house.ELESA: Yes. The family bungalow was built by my great-grandfather, and thenthe “new” section, a courtyard linking the two buildings, was added in the1920s by my grandfather, who was born in1901. It is a wonderful house. It has twentyrooms and is made of brick and stone,two stories with a terrace at the top. Wehave a festival in India every January 14called Uttarayan, the “Kite-FlyingFestival,” and almost every house has aterrace on the roof from which you flykites. The house is surrounded bygrounds, with a shed on one side, whichwas originally a shelter for a buffalo andmilk cows. Later, it was turned into agarage for my grandfather’s Studebaker. Behind the house there is an old well,an outhouse, and stables where he kept his horses and buggies.RTE: What was a typical day for you growing up?ELESA: Usually the mornings began with school, which some days was veryearly – at 7 a.m. – other days, it started at 10 and you had to have lunchbefore you went. In India, cooking is done very early in the morning, notonly because the weather is hot, but also because the Jain monks and nunscome to the house to get food – they are not allowed to cook for themselves.They carry beautiful red earthenware pots like tiffins, separate little dishesstacked one on top of another. They dress all in white and come each morningto the door to ask for whatever has been prepared. They can eat onlyfresh food, and since we don’t want to turn any of them away, we prepare itearly in the morning, as do all the families in the area. The monastics notonly go to the houses of Jains, they also go to Hindus, who present themwith food as well. I’m not sure if they go to the Muslim neighbors asMuslims are usually not vegetarians, but they may. Jains are both vegetariansand pacifists.RTE: Wonderful. What other things made an impression on you growing up?ELESA: Part of the Indian cultural tradition is to show tremendous respect toyour elders. Now, your elder can be anyone from a cousin who is six monthsolder than you to your grandfather, who is sixty years older than you. Forinstance, I would not call my cousin who is six months older than me onlyby her first name. I would use her first name and add “ben,” which means“Elder Sister,” at the end to indicate that she is older.SYMEON: Before our wedding, I once forgotto call Elesa’s uncle, Subash masa, Ijust called him Subash. I saw everyonetake a deep breath and I realized I’d madea mistake. They didn’t want to say anythingbecause they knew I’d just forgotten.ELESA: Yes, it’s an insult not to indicate therelationship with someone who is older.When I say the word, “Grandfather” or“Aunt” or “Elder Sister” I’m suggestingElesa with her mother and grandfather.respect. The other thing that is very differentis that we don’t say “Thank you” or “I’m sorry.” The words exist but theyaren’t used in vernacular speech. This doesn’t mean that we don’t thank orapologize, but the actual words, “Thank you” and “I’m sorry,” are so formal, soweighted with depth and meaning that you only use them on very importantand solemn occasions.RTE: Then how do you make those acknowledgements?ELESA: Through a touch of the hand, through your eyes, or in the tone of yourvoice. Another thing that is very different is that when you meet someone likeyour grandparent, who is an elder in years and not just in seniority, or on specialdays like New Year or the feast of one of the Jain prophets, you ask a blessing.The way we receive blessings is that we bend from the waist and touchtheir feet. Then they put their hand on our head in blessing. Even now in theUnited States, if I am to take an exam I bow in front of my mother to receive45

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 2 (#21)her blessing. Although my father died when I was very young, his photographis in the living room and I also bow in front of him to ask for a blessing.SYMEON: Before our marriage we both did that.ELESA: Yes, it was very important to my family that we asked his blessing.We lit a little wick lamp that burns ghee before my father’s picture to showour respect.These things are woven into our lives, and Indians do this with their neighborsas well. Our neighbors are considered as aunts and uncles, so if I’m goingto do something special I also ask for their blessings. With this constant interactionyou feel yourself to be part of a huge family. Also, your neighbor is notonly the person next door, he can be someone who lives five blocks away.In an Indian house the doors are always open. People come in at any time.You don’t have to announce yourself, you don’t have to call and ask if youcan come. Hospitality is always offered; the door is open and you are welcomedwith open arms, day or night.We also don’t have a sense of privacy as Americans think of it. I supposeyou could go into a separate room, lock yourself in and do whatever youwant, but it would be thought unusual. The idea is to not really have a “private”life because it is seen as unnecessary. My parents felt that this kind ofcommunity was not possible in the United States.RTE: And the house was built to accommodate this hospitable lifestyle?ELESA: Yes. All houses have a front door and a back door. You almost alwaysuse the back door. The front door is only for very important occasions –weddings, funerals, or greeting someone you haven’t seen for a very longtime. It is formal, like a domestic version of the royal doors in an Orthodoxchurch. The back door is used for everything else. When you enter the gateof my grandfather’s house, the front door is open before you with a secondgrill-work door behind it that remains closed except on formal occasions. Ifyou were to enter the house by this door you would find yourself in a commonroom that has other rooms branching off of it.The “back door,” that we use most of the time, isn’t a door at all, it’s a largegate that stands open all day long. You just walk in. There is a small courtyardwith a little sink where you wash your feet before entering the house.(This is very important. In India you never enter someone’s house with yourshoes on, no matter what religion you are – Jain, Hindu, Christian, or6 Evening prayers with bells and lamps (Svetambara).

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 2 (#21)FROM JAINISM TO ORTHODOXYMuslim.) In my grandfather’s house the courtyard leads immediately intothe kitchen, and then off to the right, to the main receiving room where theguests and family meet. To the left is a hall that goes into the courtyard andthe family bedrooms. There is a little dining room adjacent to the kitchenthat always has food on the table. Anyone you know can walk in at any time.RTE: Do you also have beggars coming who aren’t monks and nuns?ELESA: Yes. We feed them, we give them drinking water, and if they ask forclothing we give that also.Animals also play a large part in the background of our daily lives. All largehouses have huge gardens that are usually very well kept. Peacocks fly fromgarden to garden. We have monkeys galore. Ours in the north are small, evenscrawny, gray with black faces and they rove in packs with a male at the headand many females with babies. They have long tails and jump from branchto branch in the gardens. In my backyard there is a huge Neem tree that haslots of branches where they love to swing. You can feed them fruit and vegetables.They aren’t dangerous, but if you annoy them they’ll throw somethingat you – a stone or a half-eaten banana, and they’ll also steal.When my mother was a young girl she once made a long journey on asteam train. There were rest stops along the way where you could wash andat one of these stops she put her clean clothes on the windowsill. A monkeycame and grabbed her clothes. He sat in front of the window holding themup and teasing her, until he finally scampered off into the trees with theclothes. She had to call for help.There are shutters and grilles over the windows of an Indian house, butthe grilles are large enough for a monkey to reach his hand through andthey will often grab things off of a table that’s too near the window.SYMEON: That’s one way that people catch monkeys. The monkey will put hishand through the grill-work to get the food and then hold it tight in his fist.He can’t get his fist back through the grille, but he won’t let go of the food.ELESA: We also have wild pigs, and snakes from time to time, includingcobras. The cobras don’t really bother people, although you don’t want toget too close, but people will sometimes leave food for one in the road. Thecobra is considered sacred, like the cow. In town we also have donkeys,which are used as beasts of burden, and camels that pull carts. In fact, whenwe move from one house to another we call a camel cart to come move ourthings, like you would hire a U-Haul in the United States. They pull hugeloads. Tractors are new to India and most farmers still plow their fields withoxen. Beyond the village districts are cheetahs and lions.You also see elephants from time to time, usually domesticated, oftenpulling a cart or just walking from place to place. It’s quite usual to see anelephant on the road in the midst of cars and motorcycles. Elephants arealso venerated. They stand by the temples and people feed them.SYMEON: One of the things that most struck me when I went to India is theirreverence for life. Cows are sacred, and in a big city it’s like driving throughdowntown Chicago at 50 miles an hour, but with cows wandering on theroad. Drivers might go off the side of the road, they might hit another car,but they won’t hit the cow.ELESA: The reverence for cows is a particularly Hindu custom, but everyoneabides by it. Jains also consider cows to be holy and they are referred to asGaimatha, that is, “Mother Cow.” You are allowed to touch the cow, but youcan’t hurt it. We don’t euthanize animals either. In fact, along the road yousometimes come across animal shelters that care for old stray donkeys, orcows that people don’t want because they no longer produce milk. This isingrained in our culture.RTE: And why do the Hindus consider cows, elephants, and cobras to besacred?ELESA: They are seen as representations, as symbols of various gods in theHindu pantheon.Jain BeliefsRTE: I’ve read that Jainism is very old; some say that it originated 3,000years before Christ in the Indus Valley. Can you describe some of the elementsof the Jain religion?ELESA: Jainism is basically a religion of nonviolence. Nonviolence to everythingliving. Jainism is divided into two major sects. One is the ShvetambaraJains, whose monks and nuns wear white clothing, and the other is the89

FROM JAINISM TO ORTHODOXYDigambara Jains. I’ve never seen the Digambara nuns but I know themonks are not supposed to wear any clothes at all. The names mean “whiteclad”and “sky-clad,” respectively. Within those two groups are two furtherdivisions: the Deravasi, who go to temples and worship idols, and theSthanakavasi, who do not believe in idolatry and refuse to pray to idols.In Jainism we have twenty-four Tirthankaras or Jinas. They are the twenty-fourprophets of Jainism; human ascetics who became enlightened andsince they passed on are honored as guides to the spiritual life. Both Jain sectsvenerate them. The Deravasi worship the prophets, while the Sthanakavasisee them only as intercessors, roughly analogous to our Christian saints. Wehave statues, actually idols, of the prophets in the temples.RTE: Are the temple statues always one of the twenty-four prophets, or dothey sometimes symbolize a force of nature or an aspect of divinity?ELESA: No, they are usually one of the twenty-four prophets and they are anintegral part of our everyday lives. When we meet other Jains we greet themby saying, “Jai, Jenindra” which means, “Blessed be Mahavira” (or some otherprophet’s name). Also, the idols of the prophets all look similar. There are veryfew distinguishing features; the main means of identification is a small symbolon the base of the statue, similar to our symbols for the four Evangelists.RTE: Is there a belief in a god or gods?ELESA: This is very unclear. Jainism doesn’t believe in a god as we think of Him.SYMEON: The theology ends up differing a little from the practice. At the veryleast there is something that one might think of as a god, but this god didn’tcreate the world. The world is governed by natural laws. As I understand it,there is something that you will return to, perhaps more like a consciousnessthan a person. Your goal is to escape from the cycle of reincarnationand merge into that other realm.ELESA: Although we never mention that greater consciousness. We only prayto the prophets to work on our path.RTE: Is this a greater consciousness in the popularized Hindu sense, that weare all drops in the cosmic ocean, or is there a belief in an immortal soul thatretains its individuality?Temple worship on pilgrimage.11

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 2 (#21)FROM JAINISM TO ORTHODOXYSYMEON: There is a sense of the soul, but whether a person retains an individualconsciousness of himself, I’m not sure. It is more a philosophy ofabsorption into the divine. Our Abrahamic monotheism is unique toChristianity and Judaism. It seems that the actual theology of Jain prayerwas originally a little more like our veneration of saints, but in practice ithas devolved into worship.ELESA: Perhaps because Jainism has been influenced by Hindu polytheism.RTE: Do Jains worship the idols themselves, or do the idols represent thetwenty-four prophets, like Catholic statues represent saints? And if so, whoare the guides interceding to for you?ELESA: They would intercede to that amorphous higher consciousness. TheTirthankaras were earthly guides who became enlightened, and Jains believethat they can also help us become enlightened, so that we can escape from thecycle of reincarnation. Although we understand that they are only guides,some Jains have deified them, so in effect, the guides have become idols orgods. It’s all very unclear and this is why there was eventually a schism inJainism between those who worshiped the guides and those who didn’t.RTE: Growing up, did you ever have an intimation of there being a personalGod?ELESA: I have always believed in a personal God. Although I practiced idolatry,I never quite believed in it. When I was young, I consciously prayed towhat I thought of as a personal God and I felt that He heard me.Worshipping the idols just didn’t make sense to me.RTE: I found the following paragraph in a description of Jainism, and wonderedif it coincides with what you practiced? It puts a rather different faceon our western conception of idolatry, although you’ve made it clear thatJainism and Hinduism are different:“Hence we may understand Jain image worship as being of a meditativenature; the Jina is seen merely as an ideal, a certain mode of thesoul, a state attainable by all embodied beings. Through personificationof that ideal state in stone, the Jain creates a meditative support, as itwere, a reminder of his lofty goal and the possibility of its attainment.”ELESA: That sounds right from a scriptural point of view, but actual practicefrequently differs.RTE: Whether Jains worship the Tirthankaras or pray to them as intercessors,do they pray for help with specific needs, or just for a general blessing?ELESA: You can pray for a general blessing, but you can also pray for tangiblethings. Often fruits and flowers are offered, or special sweets. You takeyour offering to the temple, present it, and then you sometimes take it backand eat it. As you eat, you take in the blessing.SYMEON: Also, the prayers are not what we think of as prayers. They aren’tdirected towards any god or even towards the prophets. They aren’t intercessorsin that way.RTE: Can you give us an example of a Jain prayer?ELESA: The prayer that I grew up saying as a child is a verbal acknowledgementof respect for the prophets, my parents, elders, friends, and teachers.It is as common as the “Our Father” among Christians, but we might say itseveral times a day: on arising, before sleep, before eating, before work,before taking an exam…SYMEON: There is a special temple ritual, as well.ELESA: This ritual is only done when you’ve purified yourself, not only bybathing, but by saying certain prayers so that you can enter the sanctuary. Youalso cover your nose and mouth so that you don’t breathe on the idols anddon’t accidentally kill any living organisms by breathing them in. Then youoffer fruit and flowers and ritually dress the idols. There are also little idols athome, and you light a small vigil lamp in front of them after you’ve bathed.RTE: The prayer you mentioned above seems to have more of an ethical aspectthan worship or supplication as we Christians think of prayer. Could Jainismbe compared to Confucianism as a kind of ethical philosophy that describeshow you live righteously on earth, but isn’t oriented towards worship, per se?ELESA: Yes, the idea of reverence for your ancestors is common to bothConfucianism and Jainism, but otherwise, we are much closer to Buddhism.Lord Mahavira is the twenty-fourth Jain prophet, and his coming was pre-1213

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 2 (#21)dicted by prophets and lay people before him. Supposedly, he and Buddhawere acquaintances, or they were alive at roughly the same time. Some peoplesay they knew each other, while others say that they were only contemporaries– certainly Mahavira did not intend to preach a new religion, hewas continuing the teachings of the earlier prophets.RTE: What was your daily spiritual practice like?ELESA: I said the prayer I told you about several times daily as a child. Yousay it before you eat, before you sleep, before you do anything. You also sayit when you enter the temple, along with other prayers. My mother andgrandmother were well-versed in the temple prayers and they were the oneswho chanted. As a child, I usually went to the temple once a week. Thereisn’t a specific holy day each week as in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam,although there are many feast days. Traditionally, you are supposed to go tothe temple daily, and they are usually open in the morning and the evening.In my early teens, I began going to the temple every day. One importanttradition is that if you want to do puja (service to the idol) you always bathebefore you go to the temple. In the courtyard, before you enter you take offyour shoes, and dip your right hand into a bowl of rose water that sits nearthe door. You make something like the sign of the cross (although, it’s notmeant to be a cross in our Christian sense) by touching the top of your forehead,your chin, your right eye and left eye. Then you take the dish of saffron,and after dipping a twig into it, you make a dot on your forehead.RTE: This is a rather simple question, but is this why we see Indian womenwith red dots on their foreheads? As children we were told that this meantthey were married.ELESA: Red dots on women’s foreheads are traditionally symbols of marriage,but the dot on the forehead can also mean other things, including religiousdevotion by both men and women.When you enter the temple you pray first to the main idol, then to the oneon the right and finally to the left. There are always three, and they representthe individual Tirthankaras or guides to whom the temple is dedicated.You also light incense and cense the idols, then you ring a bell. You arenever supposed to turn your back to the idols and there is a little screen nearthe door so that as you turn to descend the stairs you don’t leave irrever-14 Svetambara nun.

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 2 (#21)FROM JAINISM TO ORTHODOXYently. After you finish, you walk around the outside of the temple severaltimes, and say a final prayer before leaving.Many people just sit in the temple and meditate. That is what I used to doquite often. Most Jain temples are made of marble and are very calm, quiet,cool places. We don’t have temple priests, but there are guardians or caretakerswho come to wash the idols and take care of the grounds.RTE: Would you talk now about the extent of nonviolence in Jainism andhow it works practically in the lives of lay-people?ELESA: Our most obvious practice of nonviolence is our diet. Jains eat nomeat, poultry, or fish, nothing that can walk or breathe, including eggs.Cheese, milk, and butter are all allowed. We do not eat root vegetables –carrots, onions, radishes, beets, potatoes – because they grow undergroundand have bacteria living on them. This is the rule, but not everyone followsit. My grandfather was very strict and when we returned to India when Iwas six, he didn’t learn for years that I had eaten eggs in the United States.He would have been horrified.Another interesting aspect is that when Jains or Hindus have dogs, thedogs are also vegetarians. They are never given any meat but they arehealthy. They eat vegetables, grains, and dairy products.RTE: On an interpersonal level are Jains pacifists?ELESA: Yes, unlike most Hindus, Jains are pacifists. You would rarely find aJain in the Indian army. This may be changing as people become less strictand more westernized, but traditionally Jains are never violent. For example,if someone breaks into your house you are to negotiate with him, to tryto get him to see reason. If all else fails, you let him take whatever he wants.He will eventually have to pay for what he has done and it is not up to youto decide the punishment. Nonviolence is absolute. You do not beat yourchildren or reprimand them by raising your hand, nor do you hurt animals.Nonviolence also means that it is your duty to help people as you can.As a practice, however, it does not always work out like this and I’m surepeople are now sometimes restrained if they try to steal something.However, robberies in the part of India that I live in are very uncommon;until recently it wasn’t something that people needed to be concerned about,and we usually leave our doors unlocked during the day. In Ahmedabadthere is almost no personal violence either, although sadly, this is beginningto change as well. In New Delhi and in other big cities it has become a problem.Also, no matter what religion you are, a woman is regarded as a grandmother,a mother, or a sister. She is not to be violated in any way, either physicallyor verbally. Because of the structure of Indian society, you wouldn’tencounter instances where your non-violent principles endanger you.The Jain monks and nuns, called sadhus and sadhvis, are the ones whomost strictly adhere to nonviolence. They wear a mask over their nose andmouth to keep from breathing in insects. They will eat food that is given tothem as alms but they will not grow or harvest it themselves. They won’teven take a banana off the tree because that would be hurting a living thing,although they can gather fruit that has already fallen. The young monks andnuns who come to beg take food back for the older ones.RTE: Do Jains fast as well?ELESA: Yes. Jains are on a lunar calendar and every month there are certaindays – the 5th, the 8th, and the 14th – that are fast days. On these days everyonefasts. Fasting is a part of our culture just as in Orthodoxy, although Jainfasting is extremely strict, and begins in early childhood. At the beginning ofthe new cycle of the Jain calendar, our “New Year,” there are at least five daysin a row on which you are supposed to fast. Infants, of course, nurse ondemand. When you are about five, you begin to learn to fast by eating anddrinking (boiled water) as you need to, but only between sunrise and sunset.When you are a little older you eat only twice a day, and a little older still, youeat only once a day for those five days. By the time you’ve reached your teensyou may fast completely for eight days straight, only drinking boiled water.RTE: And this is lay-people, not just monks and nuns?ELESA: Yes, lay-people. Monks and nuns fast for even longer periods of time.This is pretty much what Mahatma Gandhi did with his fasts when peoplewere rioting. He knew that no one would listen, so he decided to deprivehimself of food, thereby setting an example of sacrifice to the people whomhe knew loved him. And that is what happened every single time he fasted.He sometimes fasted for long periods of time, only taking boiled water anda little juice from time to time when his blood sugar went down.RTE: In the West they saw his fasting as a political tool. The British felt thatit was a weapon he consciously used against them.1617

FROM JAINISM TO ORTHODOXYELESA: That wasn’t his rationale at all. From what I’ve heard, he fasted, notbecause he knew that people would stop fighting because they wanted himto eat, although he realized that it might have that effect. Rather, it was aprayer. It was his way of asking God to grant peace, and he believed that ifhe fasted, his prayer would be answered.RTE: And it worked.ELESA: Exactly. People stopped fighting and laid down their arms at his feet.I think the British were always upset with Gandhi because it worked, andthey couldn’t fathom how it was possible that this “little brown man in aloincloth,” as they called him, could subdue the whole sub-continent.He did it in Africa, he did it in India, he did it in England, and huge crowdsfollowed him everywhere. He knew that people loved him, but his fastingwasn’t emotional blackmail because that wouldn’t have been love on hispart. He was petitioning God.Ahimsa and GandhiRTE: Did your family know Gandhi?ELESA: Yes. In the 19th century both sides of my family were merchants. Inthe 20th century my maternal grandfather was a stockbroker and my paternalgrandfather a lawyer. My paternal grandfather was a man of principle. Hebelieved completely in Gandhi’s Ahimsa movement, and several members ofthe family were very close to Gandhi. Ahimsa means “nonviolence,” andcomes directly from Jainism. Gandhi was a Hindu but he believed in the Jainideal of nonviolence; the line between Hinduism and Jainism is sometimespretty blurred and they often accept each other’s values and ideas.My grandfather, the lawyer, often helped people who were involved in thefreedom fighting. His daughter, my father’s elder sister, was strongly involvedin the non-violent resistance movement and went to prison several times. Mygrandfather’s way of dealing with this was, “Well, she got herself caught andshe’s in jail, and she’ll find herself a way out.” She was very clever and she did.She is a philosopher and still tells me stories from her youth. These stories areparticularly important in understanding contemporary Hindu-Muslim violence,which has its seed in the 1947 India-Pakistan partition.Gandhi at Buckingham Palace.19

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 2 (#21)FROM JAINISM TO ORTHODOXYFor example, in the inner city everyone lives in gated communities, verysmall communities with a big wall around a number of houses. They havetiny streets – you can’t get a car in there – and all of the houses are rathertall and narrow. Each community has its own temple or mosque, dependingon whether it’s a Jain, Hindu, or Moslem community. During the partitioning,however, when there were Hindu-Muslim riots, my aunt says thatmany Muslims took in Hindus and Hindus took in Muslims. They protectedeach other, because they realized that this was a political battle that hadnothing to do with religion or the people living next to them. They had beenliving with these Muslims and Hindus for generations, for centuries. Theywere neighbors, and loved each other just as they loved their own families.RTE: Was your family near the Pakistani border during the fighting?ELESA: Yes. Ahmedabad is in Gujarat, and Gujarat borders Pakistan. Thecity is about 200 kilometers away from the border. There was more violencein the area of Punjab, because Gujarat’s border area is in the middle of thedesert and there weren’t many people living there. But when people talkabout the time of partition, it wasn’t really about Muslims against Hindusor Hindus against Muslims, it was an overall political scheme, the Britishstrategy to divide and rule: “Divide the Muslims and Hindus, divide thepeople, divide the land.”My mother’s father also knew Gandhi. When my mother was three,grandfather took her and her six-year-old brother in his horse and buggy tomeet Gandhi. My uncle presented him with a hand-made rope of sugarcanereeds; one of Gandhi’s most cherished projects was encouraging localsustainable handicrafts. My mother gave him a mango, which he sharedwith her, or at least took it, blessed it, and gave it back. The feeling that Ihave when I speak with the older members of my family was that he was awonderful man. He had an immense love for children; being with childrenwas nourishment for his soul and inspired him to push forward, to save thefuture for the children of India.Not only India’s independence, but many of the social reforms we’ve made(for instance in the caste system) were instigated by Gandhi, and people stillhonor him for it. They don’t pray to him as a saint, but they very much reverehim. When he was shot, his dying words were, “Hai Ram,” which means “OLord!” and they’ve put up a little black granite pavilion on the shore of theGanges with “Hai Ram” inscribed on it as a memorial. His birthday, October 2,is a holiday in India, and people go there to pray for him and to give offeringsand flowers in thanksgiving for his life. He is very loved.Politically, the Indians around him were also important. They believed inGandhi and saw him as their leader, but they were also very learned themselvesand had the interests of the country at heart. Some say that towardsthe end Gandhi was more of a symbol, and others were wielding the politicalpower.RTE: But that would have been in line with Gandhi’s whole approach. Hissights were on higher things than personal political power.ELESA: Right. He didn’t really care who ran the government as long as it wasa peaceful government and the people were happy. This is why, when theIndia-Pakistan partition occurred, it broke his heart that his people werebeing separated. At that point, Jawaharlal Nehru, who had backed the partition,was slated to become the Indian prime minister, but Gandhi askedhim to step down and give the post to Muhammed Ali Jinnah. Jinnah didn’taccept, however, and Nehru came to power anyway.RTE: Has the Ahimsa movement continued and does Gandhi’s ashram inAhmedabad still exist?ELESA: The ashram in Ahmedabad has been turned into a museum, butthere are other communities that have taken on aspects of Gandhi’s work;for example, the inequalities of the Hindu caste system, which has been ahorrid thing for many people.RTE: Do Jains also have castes?ELESA: Theoretically, no. The caste system is Hindu. Neither Jains norMuslims have castes, but because the Jains are usually merchants they arerelegated to the merchant class in Hinduism. We are artificially placed intotheir hierarchy. But the people at the very bottom of the Hindu caste system,the Shudras, the Untouchables, are the so-called “backward” class. This wasa huge problem for Gandhi. He could not believe that such a pious country,with everything we teach about loving our neighbor and doing good deeds,could treat these people so badly.RTE: In speaking against it, Gandhi was overturning a five thousand-yearoldtradition. Was he the first to do this?2021

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 2 (#21)ELESA: He was the first to have an effect. There were other people who hadvoiced concern, who had tried to bring these people into the mainstream ofsociety, but Gandhi not only had influence, he had political weight and hewas able to use it very efficiently to shed light on the problem.RTE: What success have they had?ELESA: Culturally, the caste system is still in place, but it is not as bad asbefore. The Shudras are no longer made to clean our chimneys or our toilets,but you can tell by the last name to what caste someone belongs, andpeople don’t always treat them as well as they would, say, a Brahmin. Thegovernment has come up with affirmative action for them: they occupymany government posts and are eligible for some of the best education inIndia. We are trying to bring them fully into society, but it is a long process.RTE: Are there Hindu traditionalists who want to see the caste system reinstated,or are people willing to let this integration happen slowly?ELESA: Outward appearances are different from what people think privately.For example, they will be tolerant and outwardly polite and pleasant, butthere is absolutely no question of intermarriage.RTE: I recently met a British man who had worked for several months in anIndian Christian school. He was appalled at the poverty, and rather negativein his views of Indian charity. He felt that “the only ones doing anything”were Christians, and from his conversations with Hindus felt thatthey “didn’t care.” How would you respond to this?ELESA: I take great exception to anyone thinking that only Christians areinterested in or actively engaged in helping the poor in India. Charitableacts are performed on a nearly daily basis and on a very personal level byHindus, Jains, Moslems, and Christians alike. There are also many organizationsthat specifically attend to the needs of the poor. Much of this is hinderedby the general state of the economy, and there is a certain amount ofcorruption that may siphon off some money allocated for the poor, butIndians are very concerned about the poor and give according to theirmeans. Also, as in Christianity, acts of charity are not meant to be broadcast.Perhaps the people he thought of as uncaring were simply modest.22 Jain ceremonial procession.

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 2 (#21)FROM JAINISM TO ORTHODOXYModern India and Hindu-MuslimConflictELESA: In speaking of India, the other thing that people often misunderstandis that, before 1947, India didn’t exist as a nation; it was 300 separate kingdoms,most of them under the British Crown. British colonialism began withthe East India Trading Company in the mid-17th century, which extended itsinfluence by taking over small plots of land on India’s coasts. In the 18th century,they began claiming weaker kingdoms as “protectorates,” and callingthemselves rulers. Finally, in 1857, Queen Victoria was proclaimed Empressof India. The last Mogul emperor was still living at the end of the 19th centuryand was imprisoned when he refused to submit to British authority.Independence was declared in 1947, but it wasn’t until 1947-1950 that theauthorities finally went around to each separate kingdom to ask, “Will you, orwill you not join the Indian Republic.” Three said, “No, we will not,” and theIndian army was sent in to take them by force. We had never been one unitedcountry, and some people still feel that they were forced to be a part of India.RTE: You were divided more by political boundaries of small kingdoms thanby ideology or religion.ELESA: Exactly. And much of the conflict you see today is because of those artificialcultural divisions imposed by the British. As I said, Hindu-Muslim violencein India was first incited by the British as a way to divide and conquer.RTE: So you feel that today’s religious violence is a legacy of colonial policy?ELESA: Absolutely. One of the reasons I feel so strongly about this is that theterm “Hindu” only really came into being after the British took over India.Before that, “Hindu” didn’t mean anything. You could be a Brahmin, youcould be a Vaishnava, you could be a Jain, but there was no such thing asa “Hindu.” We were a group of people who had social identities dependingon which religion we followed, but nothing grouped us together in an overarchingcategory. It was only when the British came and applied these termsthat people began to believe that there was a political difference, that therewas something beyond what they saw as their social identity.As part of their colonial policy, the British had Muslim rulers fightingHindu rulers, and Hindus against Muslims. States that had been peacefulfor centuries began having outbreaks of violence. The divisiveness andnationalism encouraged by the British in the late 19th and early 20th centurieswas a breeding ground for later conflicts.RTE: Did most of the Muslims leave India in 1947 when Pakistan was partitioned?ELESA: Not at all. It was approximately a 70/30 divide. About 70 percent ofthe Muslims went to Pakistan. Today, less than 20 percent of India’s populationis Muslim.RTE: Are you able to live together peaceably in Ahmedabad?ELESA: Not any more. Hindu nationalism has been on the rise for the past thirtyyears and we have a fascist Hindu nationalist party that is bent on trying toturn India into a pure Hindu state (which would include the Jains). Over thepast twenty years there have been many Hindu-Muslim riots. In 1992, a 400-year-old mosque in Ayodhya was destroyed by Hindus who believed that therehad been a temple to the Lord Rama on that site prior to the construction of themosque. Whether there is any truth to the theory or not is hard to tell.Archeologists haven’t come to a conclusion, but Muslim extremists retaliatedby destroying Hindu temples, and it has become a vicious circle. Both sides arelosing; there are no winners. A few years ago, a train carrying the wives andchildren of Hindu politicians was set on fire, and everyone on the train died. Itwas later learned that the Muslim arsonists had been hired by fanatic Hindusto attack the train, so that blame would fall on the Muslims and start a riot.RTE: What was your experience of living with Muslims and what would yousay to Westerners who have not had Muslim neighbors?ELESA: Interestingly, when I came to the United States I assumed that everyoneknew as much as I did about Muslims. This actually wasn’t much – I hadgrown up around them and knew many of their customs, but I found thatpeople in the West generally didn’t have even this. The reality of these peopleis not only what you hear on the news. They are a living community withtheir own culture and artifacts. I’ve not had a religious experience of Islam,but I believe that studying the culture in general would be helpful. Art mightalso be a good starting point; it is something that people can appreciatewithout going deeply into Islamic philosophy or religion.2425

FROM JAINISM TO ORTHODOXYGrowing up, we were close to our Muslim neighbors, but there was also adistinction. In India you are always conscious of your social identity; that youare a Jain, and they are Muslim or Buddhist or Hindu. You can have dinnertogether or celebrate each other’s festivals – not as a religious practice, butsocially – but you are always conscious of the differences. In India we havepublic holidays when everything is closed for each religion’s major festivals:Hindu, Jain, Muslim, and Christian. Socially, it’s a very healthy practice.PART IIFrom Jainism to OrthodoxyRTE: Elesa, were there specific things in your Jain upbringing that laid afoundation for becoming Orthodox?ELESA: Although I’m unclear on the details of Jainism’s formal theologyabout who or what their higher consciousness is, I’ve always believed in apersonal God and was opposed to idolatry.RTE: Was that part of your upbringing or was it a personal belief?ELESA: It was a personal belief. My family very much practices idolatry. WhenI was preparing to become Orthodox, I found many parallels betweenOrthodoxy and Jainism: forgiveness, tolerance, prayer, fasting, love for all.These are some fundamental things that I find universal in almost every religion,and it was these fundamental ideas that helped me to acceptChristianity. The theological issues were a little more difficult: the Trinity, forexample. There are things that I still struggle with, but I’m trying to learn andabsorb more as I go along. Christianity is always going to be a challenge;much of it does not come naturally and it is not part of my native culture.SYMEON: One interesting outward similarity between Orthodoxy and Jainismis in the depiction of our Orthodox icons and the idols of the JainTirthankaras. While many Hindu idols and Buddhist “temple guardians” aregrotesque, with fierce features, the Jain representations of their prophets arevery much in the style of our depictions of saints: ascetic, otherworldly, peace-Ceremony of initiation into monkhood.27

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 2 (#21)FROM JAINISM TO ORTHODOXYful, and dispassionate. The way we portray the “gates of the senses” inOrthodox iconography – small ears, noses, lips, but then large eyes to symbolizethat they are gazing into the spiritual world is similar to the Jain practiceof enlarging the eyes and elongating the ears to symbolize enlightenment.ELESA: I also find the role and conduct of Jain monks and nuns to be very similarto Orthodox monastics. They are our models and guides. You go to Jainmonasteries in India to see what Jainism is about, to reflect on your own life.On this pilgrimage to Serbian monasteries, I’ve found that this is very importantin Orthodoxy too; it’s in monasteries that you see a deeper Orthodoxy.RTE: Did you have any contact with the Jain monastics, besides those thatcame for food?ELESA: Yes, of course. We have a tradition that on days like your birthday,or if you need a special blessing, you go to where the monks and nuns resideand they will bless you by putting vaskep, a yellow powder that looks likewheat, on your head. They did this for me many times. They are very, verykind and when you talk to them (you aren’t allowed to touch them) they areextremely humble. They never said anything to me that was particularlypersonal, but I was always touched by their humility and their peacefulcountenances. I liked being around them very much.RTE: Are the monastics also divided into groups of idolaters and non-idolaters?ELESA: Yes, the one group will not engage in idolatry at all, nor do they wearclothes.SYMEON: The ideal here is poverty, of not owning a lot of possessions, andthis group considers owning clothes to be too much of a luxury.ELESA: The idea behind this is that to really humble yourself you should notbe ashamed of your body. They see shame as self-consciousness, a kind ofvanity.SYMEON: Also, in Indian culture the clothed monastics always wear white,while in ours, they wear black. But the symbolism is the same, because inJainism, white is a symbol of mourning. Everyone wears white to funeralsand widows wear white for an entire year.RTE: Do Jains pray for the dead?ELESA: Yes, they do. On the anniversary of my father’s death every year wehave what we call aarti where a prayer is said for him in the temple and thena bell is rung a certain number of times. This is done annually for everyonein our family who has died. Our family is associated with a particular templenear our home where the prayer is always sung.RTE: Is there any form of confession?ELESA: We don’t practice confession in the Christian sense; however, if thereare things that trouble us, secular or religious, some Jains will go to themonastics about it.In Jainism there is also a day when we ask forgiveness of everyone, likeour Orthodox Forgiveness Sunday. You go to everyone you know, even casually,whether he is a Jain, Hindu, Muslim or Christian, and you bow to himand say, “If I have ever offended you knowingly or unknowingly, please forgiveme.”Another outward similarity I’ve noticed between Jainism and Orthodoxyis the Serbian practice of having family saints, called Slavas. For the Serbs,these aren’t saints who are picked anew in each generation, they are saintswho were given as protectors to a particular group or tribe the day they werebaptized centuries ago. Serbs pray for all of their deceased relatives back tothat point of that original baptism. In a similar way, Jain families have akuldevi, usually a goddess that the family considers to be their patron. WhatI mean by a goddess here is very different from what we would think of as afemale equivalent of God. We have many minor prophets and some of themwere women; they were human beings who became enlightened, their birthswere foretold by prophets.On a Jain family feast day, like a Serbian slava, food is prepared for weeksin advance, and the doors are thrown open to anyone who wants to come.The small lanes of the gated communities are covered with awnings orbranches to provide shade and lined with carpeted platforms for people tosit on. Servers come by giving out food until you burst. It is not only for familyor friends, but for anyone who comes off the street.RTE: Wonderful. Speaking of praying to the kuldevi, did the Christian venerationof the Mother of God pose any difficulties for you?2829

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 2 (#21)ELESA: No, the idea of venerating a holy mother has an analogy in Jainism.We honor the mother of Mahavira, the 24th prophet, who had a vision thatshe was to conceive a child and that he would be the enlightened one toguide his people. Although Mahavira was not God, the idea of veneratingMary, the Mother of God, was easy for me to accept, because I alreadybelieved in a personal God. Most of the Ten Commandments were also veryfamiliar, because they are implicit in Jainism. Also, some of the Gospelparables are similar to stories of Jain saints and their ethical teachings.Much of Christian belief already seemed familiar to me.RTE: Mother Theresa felt that the West was spiritually impoverished. Aftergrowing up in India, do you feel this also?ELESA: Definitely. I feel this about America in particular. Unfortunately, aswe Indians have become westernized, many of our traditions are also beingcorrupted by individualism and acquisitiveness. In attitudes and actionspeople are beginning to break away from what they followed as socialnorms for centuries.RTE: Can you give an example?ELESA: Yes, for instance, in marriage customs. The dowry used to be clothesand jewelry that would be handed down for generations, and sometimesperhaps money, but now more substantial things are expected, cars or otherhuge gifts. Some people see it as an opportunity to acquire wealth. SomeHindu brides who didn’t meet the in-laws’ expectations have come undertremendous pressure, and a few have even been burned to death. Thiswould not have happened in the past.RTE: So the dowry goes to the bride’s in-laws?ELESA: Today, yes. You would think that it would be something for the brideto use in her married life, but it actually goes to the groom’s family. Themother-in-law feels completely justified in taking it, because her own dowrywent to her mother-in-law. Often the groom’s parents will write out a listand say, “This is what we want,” and if the bride’s parents aren’t wealthyenough to provide it, the marriage won’t take place.RTE: It must be difficult for Indian parents to see their son marry anAmerican or European woman who has no intention of giving a dowry.30Ceremony of renunciation for a Jain monk.

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 2 (#21)FROM JAINISM TO ORTHODOXYELESA: Yes, it is frowned upon to marry a foreigner, or someone from anothercaste. My mother’s family is more liberal, but on my father’s side you areeven expected to marry a person from the same Jain sect.SYMEON: Although western values are creeping in, I was amazed at how religionstill completely pervades the Indian culture. In the United States webelieve that we are quite religious and have the freedom to express it, but thisis much more true in India. Although the religions are intensely varied, everyonefreely expresses their belief when and where they choose. Any store youwalk into will have a statue of the family deity or, if Muslim, some verses fromthe Koran. Along the street I came to a small building that I thought was afast-food kiosk. Instead, it turned out to be a little temple where passers-by goin to pay homage to the idol. Religion is a very visible part of their lives.In order to get along in our pluralistic western societies, we have privatizedour religion and it is becoming socially unacceptable to say anything about itin public. If you mention your religion, people often feel that you are proselytizing,even in academic circles. In my experience, we aren’t pluralistic, we areoutwardly almost atheistic, because we simply aren’t allowed to talk about it.ELESA: I also have to say that I’ve never come across an atheist in India. I’msure there are some, but I haven’t met one.Islamic Studies, Christian BeliefRTE: Elesa, you said earlier that you went to America to study medicine.How did that change to Islamic art?ELESA: There are numerous doctors in my family. Every second person is adoctor and almost every specialty was covered except neurology. I thoughtthat perhaps this was my niche, so I began my studies and did one of mybachelor’s degrees in neurophysiology.At the same time, as part of my core education, I had to take a humanitiescourse in art history. My course was on Western art from 1300 to the present,and in one sense it was my first real exposure to Christianity. I hadnever read the Bible before and I was fascinated with the art, the history,and the whole idea that there was a culture out there about which I knewvery little. So, I took a second art history course, then a third, and finally acourse in Islamic art. I’d grown up around Muslims; Islamic culture wasfamiliar to me, and I immediately found that I had a connection with it thatwent beyond the beauty of Islamic art – the whole idea of these Muslimcommunities working together to erect mosques, medresi, and caravanserai– places for people to pray, to rest, to eat was fascinating to me. I also foundit very interesting that Islamic spirituality is expressed through architecturewithout figural imagery. As you know, Christian art (as with Hindu andJain) is almost completely figural: paintings, frescoes, icons, statues.As I was exploring art history, I was also taking pre-medical courses andfound it incredibly competitive; there was a lot of back-stabbing and unhealthyreasons why people wanted to get into medical school. I decided that I didn’twant my life to be filled with that kind of anxiety, that I’d rather do somethingdifferent, so I left pre-med to study Islamic art at a graduate level.RTE: How does that work with being Orthodox?ELESA: People have asked me before how I reconcile the two. I don’t. The onething doesn’t have anything to do with the other – one is my religion and theother is a course of study. I study Islamic theology as part of art, but it is notmy belief. Orthodoxy has immersed me in Christian culture and belief; Ihaven’t experienced Islamic spirituality. However, I am very interested inthe confluence of cultures, such as the Christian and Islamic cultures, and Irealize that many Islamic traditions came from Byzantium, from whatalready existed in the Christian world. That was their template.RTE: Weren’t many of the famous Islamic structures built by ByzantineChristian artisans?ELESA: Absolutely. The Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem is the foremostexample. The mosaics there are said to have been created by Byzantinemosaicists who were sent by the Byzantine emperor at the request of thecaliph. Also, most of the texts on Islamic art history are by western authors,and some are very good, but they lack the personal experience of growing upin the culture. I’m grateful that I had Muslim neighbors and have a livingsense of their community life.RTE: You’ve grown up close to, but outside of, both Christianity and Islam,which gives you a unique vantage.3233

FROM JAINISM TO ORTHODOXYELESA: Yes, I began studying Islamic art before I became Orthodox, so I findmyself trying to understand both sides when it comes to history, conflict,and art. I really try to stick to the Orthodox ideals of tolerance, love, and forgiveness.Atrocities have been committed on both sides, but all you can dois pray and forgive. We can’t see the acts of a minority of Muslims as a reflectionof the culture as a whole. The community at large is not like that, andMuslims are caught in a bind of having to defend their faith, which thewhole world seems to be attacking.As to how I express myself culturally, I cannot be anything other thanIndian, and that does cause conflict. When I am in the United States, I tryvery hard to express my Indian side. When I am in India, I do the opposite.I feel that I don’t completely belong to either culture. The same goes forIslam. I am protective of Islam, but I’m also protective of Orthodoxy, whichis my faith. When I hear someone speaking negatively about Orthodoxy orin ignorance about Islam, I try to correct it as best I can; not to impose mybeliefs, but to offer an explanation.Orthodoxy and MarriageRTE: Do you remember your first encounter with Christianity?ELESA: Yes, I went to a Catholic school in Ahmedabad, and although weweren’t required to attend Catholic religion classes, we all said the “OurFather” together each morning and evening. We didn’t mind this, becausethere is always a morning and evening prayer in Indian schools, and we wereused to praying in common with other students. There were a few Catholicsthere, but most of us were Hindus, Muslims, or Jains. We weren’t pressuredabout Christianity, and if in school we incidentally learned anything about areligion that wasn’t ours we just ignored it. In India you don’t learn religionin school. You learn it at home, at the temple, and from the monks and nuns.RTE: How did you become Orthodox?ELESA: My first brush with Orthodoxy, although I wasn’t yet conscious of it asa religion, was when I was ten years old. At our home in Ahmedabad, I foundsome Reader’s Digest condensed books that my father had bought when hewas alive. He had a huge library and as I was a very fast reader, I read everythingthat came my way. One day I came across a biography of the lives ofVimala Temple, Mt. Abu, Rajasthan, India.35

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 2 (#21)FROM JAINISM TO ORTHODOXYup the Washington, D.C., Yellow Pages and found St. John the BaptistRussian Orthodox Church.SYMEON: I was hoping, of course, that she would become interested, but Ididn’t push it. I had already talked to my priest, and he had basically said,“Orthodox Christians don’t try to force their religion on others. Pray aboutit, but don’t push her into anything. If she converts to Christianity, it has tobe from her heart, not as a condition for your relationship.” Although I didn’twant to push, I’m afraid that I did end up talking to her quite a bit aboutOrthodoxy. I tend to do that…Elesa Dalal and Symeon Branson.Tsar Nicholas and Tsaritsa Alexandra of Russia. The story stuck with me. Atthe time I felt, “There’s something special here.” I had no idea that it hadanything to do with Orthodoxy, I just thought of them as the rulers of Russiaand marveled over their lives. Later, I lost the book at one of my aunt’s housesand mourned it for a long time. It was more than losing a book; it was losinga piece of myself. I had an inexplicable connection with them.I was introduced to Orthodox Christianity through Symeon. We met whenI was administrating an archeological dig for the University of Maryland atCaesarea Maritima in Israel. Caesarea Maritima is Herod’s city, and we wereexcavating the temple to Augustus and Roma. Symeon had come as a volunteerfrom the University of Oklahoma and we ended up going to a lot ofchurches together, the Holy Sepulchre and others that I had studied as partof Byzantine history. They were interesting to me because of their history,but I didn’t have a conscious spiritual connection with Christianity.Once we became more involved, I understood that Symeon could not bewith someone who was not Orthodox. I decided that before I made up mymind that this relationship couldn’t go anywhere, I would at least see whatOrthodoxy was about. I didn’t want to reject it without making an educateddecision. This wasn’t something that Symeon asked me to do; I just pickedELESA: (Laughing.) Non-stop. Even now, anything we talk about comes backto Orthodoxy.So, I e-mailed Fr. Victor Potapov, the priest, and said, “I’m not a Christian,but I’m interested in learning. What do you suggest?” He said, “Come toliturgy.” The next weekend I met Fr. George Johnson, the church’s Englishspeakingpriest, who said that he would be interested in catechizing me onSundays after liturgy.RTE: Were you already thinking of becoming a catechumen?ELESA: No, I wasn’t. Fr. George was wonderful, though. He was very interestedin what aspects of my background would work well with Orthodoxyand it actually went rather quickly. For the first month and a half I just wentto Vespers and Liturgy, learning about the services. After coffee on Sundaywe would sit and talk for an hour or two about Orthodoxy, and then I woulddrive home and call Symeon, who was now at Notre Dame, and say, “This iswhat I learned today.” I was excited about it, and it felt good, because I waslearning on my own.At the time I told Symeon, “If I do this, it will be of my own volition. I don’twant to ever feel that you forced me into it. If our relationship is to continue,I don’t want to someday come and say, “Look, I did this for you….” Thatwould be totally unfair.After those first weeks, Fr. George suggested that I become a catechumen.He said, “You know, becoming a catechumen doesn’t mean that you areChristian, but it does mean that you are being prayed for in the Church.” So,I became a catechumen, but I didn’t tell Symeon until later.While this was going on, a problem arose in my relationship with mymother. My mother could not accept that I would even think of converting.3637

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 2 (#21)Because Symeon was a Christian and was white, she also could not believethat I would marry him. I first visited St. John’s in October, and in Januarythe problem really surfaced. Every step was harder, but Fr. George encouragedme to keep going rather than to stop and take a break. He felt that thiswas a temptation in preparation for baptism, and that no matter when Icame to this point, the temptation would be the same or even stronger. Ikept on, because I wanted to keep learning. Of course, it was also bringingme closer to Symeon, and I understood that if I didn’t participate inChristianity in one form or another, there would be a huge chunk of his lifethat I wouldn’t have access to.RTE: Had anything connected for you at this point between your early fascinationwith Nicholas and Alexandra’s story and your catechesis?ELESA: I did think it interesting that I’d ended up in a Russian OrthodoxChurch with Russian services. Only later did I learn about the concept ofpassion-bearers and the Tsar being killed as the anointed head of the country,the physical symbol of Russia’s Orthodox church and people. I began toread about the family again, and one of the stories that really struck me waswhen Tsar Nicholas tried on a newly designed soldier’s uniform and hikedall day with a full pack to see if the uniform was comfortable enough tomarch in before it was issued to the troops. I thought, “If that wasn’t a lovingtsar, I don’t know what is.”There wasn’t a certain moment when I knew it was time to be baptized.There wasn’t a point at which I felt I was done; baptism was just the nextstep. Becoming Orthodox is a process. I have a wonderful priest now inMinneapolis and a very warm community, and this is important to me. If Ihadn’t found that warmth and welcome at St. John’s when I first approachedthe Church, I would have turned my back on Orthodoxy altogether.Symeon and I had already been engaged for a month before I was baptized.Frankly, my baptism was the worst day of my life. I put my motherthrough so much pain that day. She was aware I was planning to be baptized,but that morning we had a huge fight.RTE: In a Jain household that must have been particularly painful.ELESA: To have her be upset with me to that degree was heart-wrenching. Iwas so torn that there were a couple of times that morning that Symeonsaid, ‘You know, maybe you should just wait,” but I said, “No. This is some-38Miniature: Feeding a monk.

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 2 (#21)FROM JAINISM TO ORTHODOXYthing I have to do and I don’t want to ever go through this pain again.” Iknew if I put it off, the next time would be even harder. It ripped my motherand me apart though, and although this was March, our relationship didn’tbegin to heal until the end of August. For her, it was a real blow. Not onlywas I leaving the faith I was brought up in, I was leaving behind my socialidentity as a Jain, I was marrying someone not of my own culture, and I washer only child. I understood this, and I wanted her to feel that I loved herdeeply in spite of these decisions.To understand the enormity of this you first have to understand that mymother is incredibly important to me – there is no way I can describe howimportant she is. This is something that Symeon also had to come to understand,that I could not be with anyone who couldn’t share my mother’simportance to me and who didn’t want to participate in the way I wanted totake care of her. Without the support I got from Symeon in this, I wouldhave just broken down.RTE: Symeon, how did you heal your relationship with your mother-in-law?SYMEON: Throughout the whole ordeal she was always perfectly polite andkind to me. It was obvious that it was devastating, but she never took her sorrowout on me. At some point though, it all turned around and she decidedthat this was going to happen and that she would have to live with it. We havea fantastic relationship now. I think of her as I do my own mother. And muchto our surprise, she did come to the wedding. Many of the family in Indiacouldn’t come because it was right after September 11th and they couldn’t getvisas, but Elesa’s family members in the United States came from all over.ELESA: It has been a tremendous sacrifice on her part, and Symeon and Ishould never forget that. I very much want to be with her, to look after her.She will be with us for the rest of her life.SYMEON: It will be good to be together as a family. Children and grandparentshave a unique relationship.ELESA: My mother is my hero. She has been through many tragedies; losingher own mother at the age of three, losing my father when I was eighteenmonths old, a very difficult second marriage, and a long fight with cancer,but through all of that she has never had a bad word for anyone. She is fullof self-sacrifice, and she’s the most wonderful person I know.Living OrthodoxyRTE: Elesa, how has your inner life changed since you became Orthodox?ELESA: One very large difference was that as a Jain there were no scriptureseasily available to me. Jain scriptures are in Sanskrit, and although I readSanskrit, they are very difficult and one would have to go to the nuns andmonks to understand them properly.RTE: Do Jains regard these scriptures as revealed, or is it more of a commentaryon the philosophy of Jainism?ELESA: It is usually philosophy and commentary on the lives of theTirthankaras, the guides: what they taught, what they said we need to do toobtain enlightenment. The precepts I was talking about earlier – loving yourneighbor, forgiveness, patience – all of that became more concrete to mewhen I converted to Orthodoxy, because I was able to read examples fromthe Gospels, from the lives of saints. I like knowing what the ideal is and howfar I have to go to come up to it. It has been refreshing to have that clear-cutin Christianity.RTE: In the West, much criticism is leveled at Christianity for being “toostructured, too rigid, too moralistic, …” but this is something you value.ELESA: My affinity towards things like the Ten Commandments is probablybecause I’m a person who loves structure. I suspect that in Jainism there isa deeper structure that I wasn’t aware of as a child nor asked to follow,because structure is implicit in Indian culture.While Jains don’t have a caste system, we do have ritual: for example, tobathe and fast before you go to the temple to worship. This is religious structure;people tell you what to do, and you follow it. Had I been given somethingto read, something more theologically concrete, Jainism would probablyhave had a greater impact on me than it did, but this clarity is what Iappreciate in Orthodoxy.RTE: Obviously, it is important for you not to feel psychologically divided.How have you been able to fit your Christianity into your cultural identity asan Indian?4041

FROM JAINISM TO ORTHODOXYELESA: Not very well. In that sense, I’m like many Americans in that I keepmy religion private from my life at large. The few Indian friends I have in mydepartment at the university are the only ones with whom I can interact asa Christian Indian. I cannot do this with my family and friends in India norwith other Indians in the United States. My religion is more my Americanpart; culturally, I’m a Jain.RTE: That sense of cultural division is common to many Orthodox who grewup in other religions. When I asked Fr. Daniel Byantoro from Indonesia howhe dealt with his Christianity within his extended Muslim family he said,“We don’t. We simply don’t talk about it.” How about your inner identificationas a Christian?ELESA: Because I’ve always believed in a personal god, that aspect ofChristianity wasn’t difficult to accept. On the other hand, the idea of theTrinity has been and continues to be difficult. I’m not even certain of whatmy problem is – I can’t put a finger on it. Symeon and the priests I knowhave explained it in many ways, but it hasn’t quite come home yet. It is oneof the things I end up discussing a lot.RTE: Not many of us do understand the Holy Trinity deeply. I think it comeswith time, and maybe even only in the next world.ELESA: Perhaps there is something for me in that. Sometimes, as I’m reading,I’ll think, “What if Jesus Christ is not God, what if He’s just a man andI’m on the wrong path?” Fr. George would say this is just a temptation, butI have an absolute certainty that I am going to be judged, and I occasionallyhave thoughts like, “What if I’m really supposed to be Buddhist?”RTE: What do you do then?ELESA: I go to the Gospel to read something that will reaffirm what I believe.If I’m not in a place where I can read, I say to myself, “OK, I need to thinkthis through, ” and I focus on the things about Christianity that I really like.“If my conscience is my guide, and it tells me that these are the things Ishould be doing and this is what Christianity teaches, then I can wholeheartedlyfollow it even if I don’t have answers to all the eternal questions.”I realize that we cannot fully understand God.Rahda (Elesa) Dalal’s baptism, March 17, 2001.43

Road to Emmaus Vol. VI, No. 2 (#21)FROM JAINISM TO ORTHODOXYRTE: Also, you are from a vastly different culture and have only beenChristian for three years. After you’ve prayed and received the sacramentsfor a decade, it will look different.ELESA: I hope so. Sometimes I just look up and say, “Help me!” I try hard tobe as honest as I can about my beliefs and doubts. If I’m not honest, the onlyperson I’m hurting is myself.RTE: Yes. Do you think that Orthodoxy would appeal generally to the Indianmind and culture? Except for the Thomas Christians in southern India,most Indian Christian converts have been either Catholic or Protestant.ELESA: It seems to me that Orthodoxy has a stricter “code,” if you will, andmore ritual and tradition. I have an idea that you don’t so much convert toOrthodoxy as that Orthodoxy converts to you. That’s an ambiguous statement,but what I mean is that Orthodoxy adapts to whichever culture itfinds itself in, and this would be very acceptable to Indians. Having beenunder colonial rule for so long, which included forms of Christianity thattried to convert us culturally, to hold to our “Indianness” is important forus. Orthodoxy allows this.SYMEON: Orthodoxy doesn’t do violence to the cultures it goes into. It triesto take the best of that culture and transfigure it. As I’ve learned aboutIndian culture, I’ve found that a lot of it makes sense to me in a way that itwouldn’t have if I hadn’t been Orthodox. For example, the way Indiansreceive blessings from their elders is much the same way that we receiveblessings from priests, or as parents in the Bible blessed their children byputting their hands on their heads. Indians also have a hierarchy, within thefamily and the community. If Protestantism has gone over well withIndians, it isn’t because they feel a cultural affinity; it lacks the outwardexpressions of reverence that are part of the culture.RTE: Elesa, is there anything you would like to say to Christians at large?Christian thing to do, and is the only way people of other religions will everbe able to hear about Him.Although Indians, Chinese and Africans are generally not Christian, Ibelieve that most of them have had some experience of Christ, some realcontact with God, and that it is unjust on our part to dismiss that. We don’tknow how God is reaching them. I am not saying this to be politically correct,but one shouldn’t try to make Orthodox truth dependent on anotherreligion being bad. Orthodoxy can stand on its own.SYMEON: Some of the Church Fathers speak of the Sibylene oracles who foretoldChrist’s coming, and say that some of their revelation was authentic.Also, an Alaskan native I met said that their shaman had prophesied thatone day the Healer would come into the world. Later, they told the peoplethat the Healer had come because they had seen His star. They were justwaiting for someone to come and tell them about Him.There is a temptation for many people to think that any non-Christian religionis unconditionally bad. It seems obvious that it doesn’t have to be thisblack and white. We believe that Orthodoxy is the truth and that to whateverextent something deviates from Orthodoxy it is less full, but we don’t have tosay that it is utterly worthless. No one who has grown up in another faith andhas experienced the good elements of it could take that seriously.ELESA: If my Indian values are the same values that Christians follow, andthat similarity was what attracted me to Christianity, how can Jainism becompletely wrong?SYMEON: I don’t think the Holy Fathers would have said so. St. Paul beganhis preaching to the Athenians by pointing to their temple to the UnknownGod and saying, “I can see that you are very religious people.” Then hetalked about the fulfillment of that idea. He began with something positive,something they could understand, and so should we.ELESA: One thing I would urge Christians to do is to take the idea of forgivenessand tolerance to heart and not dismiss people of other religionsbecause they are not followers of Christ. Make an attempt to understandthem. When you understand them you will realize where the similaritiesare, and you will be able to accept the culture and the people. This is a very4445

THE GOLDENTHREAD OFFAITH:MENTAL ILLNESSAND THE SOULAn Interview with Dr. Marina BusiginaIn Ekaterinburg, Russia, Road to Emmaus was hosted by Dr. Marina Alexievna Busigina,an Orthodox psychiatrist and former staff physician for the Ekaterinburg Regional MentalHospital, who spoke with us at length about her profession and her perception of mentalillness and the soul.RTE: Marina, how did you decide to become a psychiatrist?MARINA: As a medical student I attended psychiatric lectures and becameinterested in the potential of the human mind, but my interest actuallybegan in childhood. When I was young and heard people say, “He’s crazy,he’s stupid, he’s a loser,” I could see that the person called by those namesbegan to behave in an inadequate way. He felt limited, that he really was asdull as other people thought. When a young person receives such negativesuggestions at school or in the family, he often doesn’t have the strength ofcharacter to find out what he is capable of. He can’t tell himself that he isclever, that he has talents and can do something. It’s easier for him to thinkof himself as a fool.This same pattern is repeated with mentally ill people. It is like HansChristian Andersen’s wonderful fairy tale, The Ugly Duckling. A person can3

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 2 (#17)the golden thread of faithbe very talented and yet unable to fit into this barnyard of ours. He mayeven believe himself to be an “ugly duckling” when it simply isn’t true. Inobserving this, I became very interested in the power of positive suggestionin mental illness: how to show a person that he has a functioning intellect;that he has hidden abilities, talents, interests; and how to use them.Society thinks that a normal man is one who can perform certain actionsin the framework of society, but I was also interested in the potential ofindividuals. When we studied psychiatry, we saw clinically insane patients,and the possibility of working with them was thrilling to me. It impressedme so greatly that I chose it as my specialty.RTE: So, your clinical experience began in medical school?MARINA: Yes. In the fourth level of the medical institute I gave birth to myson, and as we needed more money, I went to work in the evenings as anurse in the acute psychiatric ward of a mental hospital. I felt great compassionfor my patients and I wanted to understandhow they perceived their diseases. AlthoughI was only a simple nurse, I began engaging eachone in conversation, trying to help him rememberhis sane condition from before the disease, who hehad been before he fell ill.When I graduated from medical school, I wasassigned to the regional mental hospital. Mypatients were men from 16 to 80 who were acutelyill with different pathologies. Some had been badlyMarina Alexievna withson, Victor.hurt by their environment, and others had difficultorganic and endogenic illnesses, such as schizophrenia,where episodes occur at intervals. Others were sick from alcoholismand drug abuse. We had the whole range of acute mental illness.RTE: Is there a predictable response when people are hospitalized?MARINA: Yes. Usually, when someone first comes to a psychiatric hospital,he feels uncomfortable. The very fact of his being admitted is a shock. Fora person with an acute psychosis, who is perhaps having hallucinations ordelirium, it doesn’t matter where he is because he interprets everythingaround him in light of the imaginary situation in his mind. He can bring hisdoctor, the clinic, and the other patients into his imaginary world, his deliriousconsciousness. Some ill patients may regress to an earlier level of theirchildhood when they were dependent on their mother, and with her helpsatisfied their desires; in this case the doctor may be given the role of mother.Also, those with psychological problems like severe neurosis or depressionor with sensitive psyches, often become frightened around other psychiatricpatients and look to the physician as a psychological defense. Theyimmediately need to believe in their doctor, to be able to tell him of theirdeep feelings, emotions, and fears.For an ill man, the doctor is a real connection between his inner conditionand outer reality. A new patient often feels that no one can possibly understandhim: he is convinced that his emotions, his nightmares, and the disastershe foresees are all quite real. The doctor must penetrate this innerworld so that his patient is not alone with his nightmares, while he himselfstands on sane and solid ground.When a patient is taken to a hospital for the second or third time and seesa doctor he has become accustomed to, he is comforted by simply being in hispresence. When I receive my former patients in the reception room and ask,“Are you anxious and afraid?” they often say: “Yes, I was anxious until I sawyou.” They remember that they previously felt as bad as they do now, but thatthis was the person who helped them, and that he is present again.Mental patients easily become attached to their psychiatrist, because he isoften the only one who can walk with them through their nightmare. In psychiatrythere is a condition called “The Albatross Syndrome,” when a patientliterally follows his doctor from place to place. When I was transferred toanother hospital, even though I had explained this change carefully to mypatients, one of them found me somehow and said angrily: “How dare youleave me? Are you just a casual worker? I entrusted my soul to you, andwhat have you done?” These changes can be very difficult.RTE: How does psychiatry differ from psychotherapy? Many of us aren’tclear on this.MARINA: Psychiatry, unlike psychotherapy, doesn’t deal with psychologicalproblems. It deals with disease and usually relieves symptoms by means ofmedication or electro-shock therapy. If a person is very ill he is often afraidof these methods, and it is important to have a familiar doctor with him duringtherapy. I did not do shock-therapy myself because I wasn’t trained in45

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 2 (#17)the procedure, but I stood beside my patients while they underwent it andtried to reassure them. However, I am able to administer some drug therapiesthat help unblock the patient’s cerebral cortex so that he can becameuninhibited and freely express what is troubling him.RTE: Do you agree with the need for such treatments? They have an ominoussound to laymen.MARINA: Yes, I quite agree with them. Although it sounds so unpleasant tononprofessional ears, I’ve seen very good results from both electro-shocktherapy and psychiatric medications. A good prognosis is often obtained,and sometimes patients are relieved of their symptoms for several years. Itis very important, though, for the patient to have a doctor he can trust whenhe feels vulnerable or out of control.RTE: How do you calm a patient who is afraid?MARINA: First of all, I tell him that this treatment isn’t unique to him, it hasbeen experienced by many people who came out of it safely. He needs to bepatient for awhile and then he will begin to feel better. With specific drugtherapies, the dosages are gradually increased until the brain begins torestructure itself into more normal patterns, and for this it is crucial that thepatient trust his doctor. He needs to know that when he becomes vulnerableand unable to control his emotions, the doctor will not leave him, but will beby his side ready to help so that he will not come to any harm. Also, the sideeffectsof some psychiatric medications, such as feeling dull or unresponsive,will decrease as he recovers and the dosages can be adjusted.In psychiatry and psychotherapy, the most important thing is thepatient’s trust in his doctor. Once you have established this, you have evenvery disturbed patients greeting you with phrases like, “I love you, I’ve beenmissing you.” Then they will talk about their other feelings and problems.RTE: I imagine you have had some real milestones in learning how to developthis trust.MARINA: Yes. In fact, my very first patient had an acute form of schizophreniawith hallucinations and delirium, and refused to speak about himself.He just remained silent. I worked hard to bring him to the point of revealinghis inner condition, but as he improved, his attitude gradually changed6Marina Busigina

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 2 (#17)the golden thread of faithRTE: Was he ever healed?Marina Alexievna with other staff doctors, 1980’s.to attachment. For five years he wrote me letters and sent me parcelstelling me how much he loved me (this was not real love but a passionatedelirium). His disease progressed until he finally became like a maniac,chasing me. I had to stop treating him and he was transferred to anotherdepartment.The physician in the new department once said to him as a joke, “I knowthat you are always writing letters to Marina Alexeyevna. I wish you wouldwrite me one as well.” So, the patient wrote him a letter and the doctor readit, thinking, “Well, this is good, it’s an improvement.” Then he folded theletter and saw that the patient had written on the opposite side, all the waydown the page, Marinochka, Marinochka, Marinochka….Later, when I was on duty in the emergency room, this same man wasbrought in by ambulance. The attendants said, “He called the police and anambulance to his house, saying that someone had been killed in the nextroom.” When he saw me, he said, “I haven’t seen you for ages, and I thoughtit was you who’d been killed.” As the nurses took him to the observation wardhe told me, “Now I feel quite calm, quite safe, because I see that you are alive.”MARINA: He can never be healed in that sense. Schizophrenia is a progressivedisease and it is reoccurring, so we can only treat the episode. We treatwhat is happening now, in the moment. A psychiatrist knows that no matterhow long and how well he treats a schizophrenic patient, the disease willoften continue to progress. There will be remission and then a new episode,which may be even worse than the previous one. Eventually, the patient mayreach a state where his symptoms are chronic.In psychiatry, different diseases are distinguished: organic problems,schizophrenia, epilepsy, traumas to the brain, manic-depression, psychosis….The same disease can take different forms. In one person its effectsare mild and it progresses slowly, in another it can be acute and sudden. Itmay stay at the level of a threat or slowly progress towards the disease itself.With one acute form of schizophrenia, the patient’s memory fails and hispersonality can change dramatically. Later, the personality, its nucleus, mayeven disintegrate and the patient can lose the sensation of nuances — joy,liveliness, creative activity. Even before I became a Christian, it was veryinteresting to me that a sick person, even if he is a complete mental wreck,still responds through his soul. He reacts to emotions, to attitudes, to love.If you love him, he will never feel aggressive towards you no matter howdeeply or how far his schizophrenia has progressed. When you talk to him,not as to an outer shell of a disintegrated being, but as to a soul, he willalmost always understand through his soul and experience emotions of love,warmth, and trust.RTE: For laymen, a chance encounter with someone who is mentally ill canseem intimidating, as much from its unexpectedness as the person’s abnormalbehavior. One’s first reaction is often a feeling of fear and a desire toescape. What practical responses can you suggest if we find ourselves in asituation with someone who is very ill?MARINA: There is, of course, a difference between people who are mentallydeficient or dysfunctional and those showing acute symptoms. People whosuffer from some form of dysfunction, but not a maniacal disease, are harmless.One can see and feel this in their quiet, withdrawn, often untidyappearance. They may cause you discomfort, but they are not at all aggressiveand are usually quite fearful themselves. For them, negative emotions89

the golden thread of faithare usually expressed in tears rather than anger. They should be treatedkindly. You can offer a small sweet, a kind word, a little money, simple assistanceif they need it — charity in the Christian sense.More obvious in public are acutely ill people whose behaviors become aggressive.They can be excited, talkative — but jumping rapidly from point to point,and emotionally unstable. If you encounter them it is better to step aside, realizingthat they are having an acute flash of their illness and need the help of anexpert. They may hear imperative voices, or speak excitedly and irrationally tothemselves or to those around them. You should ignore what they say, and keepquiet yourself. It’s quite effective in these situations to pray to God within yourself(not aloud). Then, these people will often calm down and go away on theirown. Also, people in this state are almost always open to direct contact, and ifthey try to touch you or follow you, you can tell them clearly that you don’t likethis and that you want them to stop. They will almost always obey you.Your task is just to endure their behavior until you part. Don’t pour oil onthe fire by interfering. It helps to understand that their aggression is just anindication that they feel bad, and that this is a defensive reaction. Where thementally depressed person will weep, the maniac will shout, but it’s thesame expression of discomfort. Acutely ill people can make us afraid, notonly because of spoken threats, but because of our human nature’s subconsciousfear of insanity. When we see our brother’s insanity, we fear for ourselves.But we need to remember that mental illness does not appear withouta cause. As with everything in life, we have to place our psychologicalhealth in the hands of God.RTE: Thank you. You spoke just now of hearing imperative voices. I’ve heardsome Christians, unfortunately, categorize this rather too quickly as evidenceof demonic possession. Experienced spiritual fathers in Russia, on theother hand, often refuse to make a determination between possession andmental illness because they are aware that symptoms of acute illness canclosely mimic popular conceptions of possession. Usually, when a personbelieves he is troubled by demons, they will refer him to an experiencedhieromonk at St. Sergius-Holy Trinity Lavra, or the Kiev Caves Lavra, whocan discern whether this is a spiritual problem or not. It frequently turns outto be a matter for a psychiatrist. Have you had any experience with this?MARINA: I’ve worked with many patients who heard voices as an effect ofpsychoses and hallucination. Imperative voices that are a manifestation ofMarina Alexievna11

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 2 (#17)the golden thread of faithan organic or endogenic disease can even command a person to do something,and he may follow it, but they are not demonic. We know this becausea normal course of treatment can relieve him of these symptoms, whichdon’t return after the treatment stops. These voices may manifest in hishead, or outwardly as a man’s or woman’s voice, even without the patient’sawareness, but even so, they are a part of his disease. I believe that there aretrue cases of possession, but I haven’t encountered them.RTE: How do you encourage a sense of self-dignity in mentally ill peoplewho are conscious of their condition?MARINA: I try not to let my patients feel that they are sick as personalities.No one identifies himself with his flu, his heart condition or his ulcer. Hedistinguishes between his personality on the one hand and his disease onthe other, understanding that his disease is not himself. No one is ashamedof having a heart condition or any other somatic disease, but people are veryashamed to tell others they are mentally ill — although mental disorders arecommon because the brain is much more complicated than most internalorgans. People with mental disorders are almost always ashamed of theirdisease and unfortunately, those who are mentally well tend to humiliatethose who aren’t.Very often the mentally ill are a burden for the family, who will want tosend them to a mental hospital. In Russia, no one can be admitted withouttheir permission, unless they are a physical danger to themselves or others,and sometimes families will try to provoke aggressive action. In my practicethere was one wife who laid out some knives on the table and then began toprovoke her insane husband, telling him how much she loved another manand how she had brought that man home. Another patient told me that theneighbors in his block of flats laid the blame on him for any indecentepisode. When a neighbor’s dog went to the bathroom on the stairs theysaid: “Look, the crank ****.” They didn’t even say “the schizophrenic,” butused a humiliating slang word. Mentally ill people are in a helpless position,they have no rights whatsoever. ‘Normal’ people even think it shameful tofall in love with someone who is mentally ill, although he might exceedthem in ability and intellect.RTE: What suggestions do you have for living with a family member who ismentally ill?Marina with son, Victor, and daughter, Maria.MARINA: First, he needs to be supported with therapy, medicine, visits to thedoctor. A progressive disease requires immediate and regular medical treatment.Also, every person needs respect for his human dignity. As a rule, mymale patients have quite faithful wives who take them to the hospital at theproper moment, give them their medicine, etc. These healthy women lovetheir sick husbands and take care of them. Unfortunately, women schizophrenicshave a different and much harder fate — their husbands usually leavethem. Often, it is not the healthy society that needs to be protected from mentallyill people, but the ill who need to be protected from the sane, who try totake away their apartments, money, anything they have. Healthy people areoften more cruel than the sick. I think that the humanity of any society can bemeasured by the attitude of its healthy members to those who are ill.RTE: Besides giving medications and support, how can families participatein treatment?MARINA: Work therapy helps very much, both in families and hospitals, butthis cannot just be box-folding or other assembly-line work, as was formerlythe practice. If a patient has been a professor or an artist, forcing him to make1213

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 2 (#17)boxes will only be an extra humiliation. Work therapy must take a person’sabilities and intellect into consideration. Many of my patients are educated,they read quite a lot, write verse and prose, make inventions in differentspheres. Yes, many of them are eccentric, but they aren’t dangerous.One of my patients wrote stories, which his parents then took away fromhim, tearing the papers to pieces. I asked his mother: “What are you leavinghim with? Just the pills? What interest will he have in life? What will helive for? Let him write these stories.” Having something to live for helpspeople with the most acute forms of disease to survive. Also, experienceshows that even the most acutely ill schizophrenic, if he has love for hisneighbor, can make progress. Actually, the more love he has, the better theprognosis. Often, it is not medical care that determines the prognosis in theend, but the patient’s attitude towards others. If he is capable of sympathizingand helping someone else, he will have a better prognosis, even withthe severest form of schizophrenia.There have been many ill people in the history of psychiatry who becamegreat. They did not stay on the level of their ailment but rose above it, andeven became researchers of their own disease. They were able to give a fulland sound account of the manifestation and influence of their pathologyover their personality. An example of this is Kandinsky and his work onpseudo-hallucinations. A sane person cannot understand a pathology thathe has not entered into. He can only study it from the outside, from thematerial that the ill man provides him with. Kandinsky observed himself:how he entered into the different phases of his illness and how he came outof them, and made a great contribution to our understanding.RTE: Fascinating. Can you tell us which mental diseases are inherited ororganic, and which come about environmentally, through upbringing, traumas,and attitudes?MARINA: Mental diseases such as schizophrenia, epilepsy, and maniacdepressivepsychosis are inherited. They can’t be caused by incidents.Neurotic diseases are caused by, or combined from, factors in the person’senvironment, upbringing, or education — these are functional diseases.Also, somatic pathology often causes mental and emotional disorder, orconversely, negative emotions and irrational ideas can cause somaticpathology, that is, become psychosomatic.14 Dr. Marina Busigini,1980’s.

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 2 (#17)the golden thread of faithMost mental diseases have their origin in biological dysfunction, an abnormalityin the body’s physiological interchange. Mental diseases carry inthemselves a distorted metabolism. Even with schizophrenia (which is notquite an organic disease, but endogenic), tests will reveal microscopic organicchanges in the brain tissue. With neuroses there are no changes in braintissue, these are functional disorders. A neurotic disease can be healed, buta person usually has to bear the cross of an organic disease all of his life.Nevertheless, God has created this world and its ways and laws are in Hishand. I believe that the sacraments of Confession, Holy Communion, andUnction, and daily prayer by and for the person, can lessen the effects andsometimes cure mental illness, even on the biological level. It can evenbring about the recovery of brain structures. I’ve seen this myself.RTE: How did you come to this kind of faith growing up in the Soviet period?MARINA: I became Orthodox through my grandmother, AnastasiaNikolayevna, who died in 1984 at the age of 75, a deeply believing woman.As she lay dying, she became prophetic and was able to see things at a distance.She said: “I will pray for you all there,” and kept repeating the words,“golden boy, golden boy,” about my son who was then just three years old.When I knew she was going to die, I sent a telegram to my father, who liveda thousand kilometers away in Rostov-on-Don, asking him to come to us.He replied that he too was very ill and couldn’t travel. Granny knewabsolutely nothing of this, and in a state of half-delirium, with her eyesclosed, she said to me: “Your father is sick, he’s been to the hospital today.”I was astonished. Later, when I went to see him, he told me that it was justas she had said. In her last days she also told me that my husband wouldstop drinking, which he did, and many things about people in differentplaces that later proved true.During her final hours it was difficult for her to breathe, but I knew shewanted to be alone, so I sat in the next room, just coming in to check on her.At one point, I felt a strong urge to be with her, but the neighbors said: “Youneedn’t go to her, she’s asleep.” I went anyway and took her hand. At thatvery moment her pulse stopped beating, as if she had called me to see heroff. She died on Pentecost.RTE: And this was when you began seriously thinking about spiritual life?MARINA: The subject of God was always present in our family. Before mygrandmother died she blessed me to have the icons that her own motherhad prayed in front of — St. Panteleimon and the Mother of GodBogolyubskaya [God-lover].The following year I also lost my mother. I had never been inside achurch, but I knew that a funeral service had to be sung. Earlier, we hadalways asked a babushka to go to church to order the service, but whenmother died there was no one to ask and I had a strong feeling that I had togo myself, that this was the most important and urgent matter of all. So, Ientered a church for the first time. But I didn’t go again afterwards. I justdid what was needed and went on living my own life.Several years later a friend of my department chief’s came to see him atwork. This woman was a psychic of some kind and she began to tell thefuture, as if she was prophesying, saying that something bad awaited mydaughter. I was frightened and immediately took my children to be baptized.We began attending church and received Holy Communion regularly.Later, we went to Diveyevo, three days and nights on the train to try to healmy son, whose knee was badly infected. The treatment the surgeons prescribedhad not helped, but after we went to St. Seraphim’s relics to prayand immersed ourselves in the holy spring, he recovered completely.RTE: Wonderful. Did your experience of church life change the way youworked with your patients?MARINA: It reinforced the feelings I’d always had for my patients. Theimprovements I tried to make were usually in little things. For example, onesummer while going about my duties in the hospital I realized that the heatinside the wards was unbearable, it was almost impossible to breathe. Iwanted my patients to have some relief, and as there was a pond on the territoryof the hospital, I thought that perhaps I could take them swimming.Certainly, I was running a risk: they could have run away or drowned, andthat would have been terrible. But there is almost always a risk in doinganything. You simply have to take the responsibility upon yourself and stepout. Most of the staff didn’t want new problems or troubles. They preferredto close their eyes and maintain the status quo and their peace of mind.They were hostile to my idea, but as I was deputy chief, I ordered it and theyhad to obey. They didn’t think much of the plan or of me, but the swim was1617

the golden thread of faitha great success. The patients enjoyed themselves very much. However, I leftsoon after and the experience was not repeated.Although nowadays in Russia hospitalization is strictly voluntary and thepatient himself must be willing to be cured before he is admitted, a mentalhospital will always remain an institution, a closed place, even for patientswho come there of their own will. But, of course, the atmosphere greatlydepends on the doctors in charge.Another thing I tried to do was to participate in my patients’ lives in a realway. I also dealt with hypochondriacs, whose problem is that they are soconcentrated on their health that it becomes the meaning of life. The propertreatment is to make them come out of the borders in which the diseasehas confined them, to enlarge their world-view and to help them see thatthere are many different activities such as running, swimming, painting,writing, and so on. I wanted them to realize that good health cannot be anaim in itself, but that you need it in order to work, to love, to create. When Isuggested that one of my hypochondriac patients should do some jogging,he replied that he couldn’t do it without me, so I began to run with him everyday, to show him that life has many expressions. A person is master of hishealth and his illness; it is abnormal to let it master you. The disease belongsto you, you don’t belong to the disease.The hospital was also a great part of my own life. After my mother died, Ihad no one to leave my children with, and as our salaries were not highenough to allow me to pay for child-care, I had to take them with me to thehospital. My patients were always glad to see them. Children are spontaneous,lively, and pure, and they are a good contrast to the strict regime ofthe hospital. They were like a stream of fresh water, and they were gratefulto the patients who played with them and amused them. The children’sminds were not poisoned with the awareness of who was sane and who wasill — they didn’t assess people by this criterion. Children only know “goodpeople” and “bad people.” They can tell the difference and this is what isreally important to them.RTE: You weren’t afraid for your children?MARINA: Never. I always loved my patients and they loved me, and I wasgrateful to them for looking after my children. My son, Victor, was eight atthe time and Masha, my daughter, was three. This lasted for about a year,and they were at the hospital almost every day. Of course, they were not withMarina Alexievna with co-worker.19

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 2 (#17)the golden thread of faiththe acutely ill patients, but among those who walked in the corridors anddid the everyday things that people do everywhere.RTE: You seem to believe that love is as important as professional expertisein working with your patients.MARINA: It can’t just be expertise, and you can’t use love as a technique. Itmust be sincere love. Love is felt by everyone, even by patients in the mostacute, untreatable stages of mental illness. Even when there is almost noconsciousness, a person knows on a deep level if he is accepted or not. Insuch a state, sick people are as sensitive as animals — they feel your attitude.This isn’t just situational relations, it’s real love and real friendship, notjust a “doctor-patient relationship.” When my former patients meet meaccidentally in the street, they greet me with great warmth and tell me theirproblems, believing that I can still help. Fortunately, many of them are alsoawakening to the need for spiritual life.RTE: What effect has this had on them?MARINA: After the churches in Russia reopened, many of my patients begangoing to services. We found that those who did so were being hospitalizedless, and had more stable remissions of a better quality. Being close to holythings helped them and they received great benefit from Confession andHoly Communion. Now, there is even a church at the Ekaterinburg regionalmental hospital dedicated to St. Panteleimon. The priest, Fr. DimitryBaibakov, is also a psychiatrist. When I began working at the hospital theyused to take everything away from a new patient, including his little cross,so as not to leave him any means of committing suicide with the chain (orso it was explained). Now, patients are better off, they can wear their crossesand have icons. Also, a person who is mentally ill feels better living in aChristian family. He goes to confession, he is more aware that he is ill, hesees his disease as a burden.We want him to be aware of the burden of his disease because, once he isin satisfactory condition, he will be released from the hospital and must learnto monitor himself. Supporting therapy, visits, and medication are prescribedas necessary. Then, if an acute episode begins, the self-aware patientrealizes, “I can no longer sleep at night, I’m depressed.” He comes to the hospitaland asks to be taken in for treatment. If he doesn’t do this himself andperhaps even stops taking his medicine, helpful relatives can add it to his teaor other food, which will help him become aware again that he is ill.RTE: You said earlier that you believe that even acutely ill people, like schizophrenics,can improve if they receive the sacraments and pray, or if otherpeople pray for them?MARINA: Yes, I have had situations like this. Once, one of my former patientsstopped taking his medicine, and left his family to live with another woman.His wife was upset because she knew that the young woman would just takehis money and leave him. She knew her husband was sick and she was sorryfor him, even though he had betrayed her. She came to me for help. The diseasewas in its acute stage, but the patient wasn’t aware of his condition; hedidn’t understand what was happening to his psyche. So, at that critical periodwhen he had lost his self-awareness, refused to take his medicine, and hadleft his family, the only thing I could do was to go to a monastery and order asorokoust, forty-days of commemoration at liturgy, for “mentally ill Dimitry.”A few weeks later his wife called me, amazed and overwhelmed. At one particularmoment after the prayers had begun, he had had a very distinct feelingthat there was something wrong with him. He remembered that he had afamily, and understood that, instead of living with them, he was at someother place with a woman who was, in reality, a stranger. He was shockedwhen he understood this. He couldn’t sleep, he had headaches, and he keptasking himself the same questions: “Why am I here? What am I doing here?”Finally, he returned home, very grateful and loving to his family.RTE: And you don’t feel this wasn’t just a natural reaction of the diseasegoing through remission, but a result of the sorokoust?MARINA : Yes. His wife, who had lived with his condition for many years, wasgreatly amazed. First, he had the little flickering idea that there was somethingwrong with him and his whole situation. This idea allowed all the furthersteps: being reunited with the family, getting treatment, etc. First came prayer,then God’s help and his spiritual response. Only after that did everything goits usual way — medication, correcting chemical processes in his brain, etc.RTE: You said earlier that the sacraments can help with the gravest forms ofdisease. Can you speak a little more about how Orthodoxy and psychiatrywork together?2021

Road to Emmaus Vol. V, No. 2 (#17)the golden thread of faithMARINA: Physical laws are subject to spiritual laws; physical and spiritualnatures are interconnected. When you pray for a man he can become awareof his condition and give his consent to be treated. Because of the naturalhierarchy of the body’s submission to the soul, the soul has to come to certainrealizations for the body to be successfully treated. Alcoholics, drugaddicts, and patients with psychological problems that are not bound toorganic or endogenic disease receive much help through conversationsabout the meaning of life, man’s place in this creation, and God. They candistance themselves from their disease, and begin to work with it.I frequently meet some of my former patients at church. Many of them(sometimes even those with organic diseases) no longer need to be hospitalized,and require less, or even no medication. They pray very much,attend church services and visit holy places. Their disease is still with them,their psyches remain altered, and though one can see they aren’t normal,they are no longer dangerous to themselves or other people and don’t needto be hospitalized.One of my patients, when leaving church, says goodbye to the icons as wesay goodbye to our friends. The saints are real people for him. For us, St.Nicholas the Wonderworker is part of history and belongs to the heavenlyrealm, but for my patient, the saint is a living person, a neighbor. Leavingthe church he says: “Good luck, Nicholas, I wish you all the best, see younext time.” I speak in such a way to other people, but he speaks so to theicons, smiling and bowing to each one.MARINA: Yes, times have changed and one can do it easily. There are alwayspeople who, when you begin to talk to them about God, say: “If I ever needto talk about God, I will go to a priest. I have come to you as a doctor.” Then,I don’t speak to them about spiritual life, but in every case, I attempt to.After many years at the hospital, I left to work in a large bank as the residentpsychologist. I am still there, and as I counsel people I pray mentally.Some people complain that they feel bad because of my “negative influence.”They develop a headache or believe that I have affected them in anunconstructive way. Others become quite calm and decide to undergo treatmentto quit smoking or drinking or whatever their problem requires.When people are very distressed, I sometimes read the prayer, “Let Godarise…” aloud for them. A priest once asked me: “What right have you toread ‘Let God arise…’ ?”, but my spiritual father says that only demons forbidone to pray. So I pray.RTE: Do you think that this simply his imagination, or has his illness somehowpierced a natural barrier to the other world?MARINA: This isn’t an hallucination. For him the two realities are equal, but hehas no control or check over his perceptions. Nevertheless, ill people do sometimeshave hallucinations: some of them see angels, others see demons.Clinically, it is always considered an hallucination or delirium, but I don’tknow if sometimes it might be a higher sensitivity that allows them to discernthings beyond the average threshold of perception. I think that perhaps theyperceive something that really exists, but they interpret the spiritual realitythrough the framework of their disease. It’s not a simple objective experience.RTE: In the West, it is increasingly frowned upon to talk about God in theworkplace. Can you do this as a psychiatrist in Russia?2223

To Be Free orNot to BeWelsh Christianity at the CrossroadsHieromonk Deiniol, the sole native Welsh Orthodox priest, the founder of the Wales OrthodoxMission, and pastor of the Church of All Saints in the North Wales mining town of Blaenau Ffestiniog,recently traveled with Road to Emmaus to ancient and little-known pre-schism shrines ofthe Welsh countryside. Along the way we talked of early Welsh Christianity, the effects of post-Reformation Calvinism, and the state of the Welsh Church today.rte: Father, how did a native Welshman end up as an Orthodox priest inBlaenau Ffestiniog?fr. deiniol: I originate from Anglesey, an island off the coast of North Wales,and I became Orthodox at the age of twenty, when I was living and studyingin London. I became a monk in 1977, and was ordained a priest in 1979by Metropolitan Anthony of Sourouzh, who gave me the task of opening anOrthodox church in North Wales. At that time, the nearest church was inLiverpool, which was very far for people from north-west Wales. After ordinationI moved a few miles from where I was living to Blaenau Ffestiniog,where I’ve been for twenty-six years.rte: And what can you tell us about this remote and beautiful town?fr. deiniol: The town of Blaenau Ffestiniog is a depressed post-industrialtown in the middle of the mountains. It was a very busy town while the slateindustry flourished, one of three or four such areas in north Wales, and inthe 19th century, it employed many thousands of people. Unlike the otherslate-mining areas in north Wales, extraction of the slate in Blaenau Ffestiniogtook place underground. In other locations it was above ground, or atleast in open pits, but here the slate was mined beneath the earth, and theconditions were terrible.Mines were often full of dust from blasting the slate,Photo: Fr. Deiniol of All Saints of Wales Orthodox Mission, Blaenau Ffestiniog, Wales.

Road to Emmaus Vol. X, No. 1 (#36)and smoke from the explosives. The men worked in the dark with candleson their helmets. They were answerable to the mine’s steward and if theyarrived at work a minute late they were sent home. They worked chained. Achain was fastened around their upper leg, and they were suspended fromthis chain, which was attached to a rod hammered into the slate face. Inother countries, these working conditions are considered penal conditions,for example, in the old salt mines in Siberia. In the winter, the slate minerswouldn’t see the light of day. They started work before dawn and finishedafter dark.Nevertheless, there was a sort of vibrant cultural life in those mining towns,partly due to the fact that these miners didn’t want bright young men to haveto work in the same conditions. They would save money, for example, andgather pennies and subscriptions to send bright youngsters to the university.Many young men from that time owe a lot to their mining families andfriends, who made sure that they didn’t have to go into the mines. In fact,those miners paid to set up the University of Wales.In just such a way they built their nonconformist chapels, of which at onetime there were forty-two in our town which, at its height, had a populationof 12,000. Having all of these sectarian chapels was characteristic of Welshsociety at the time.That was the formative period for Blaenau Ffestiniog, but we have to realizethat because the town is located very high up in the mountains at theend of a valley, in the normal course of events, no one would have thoughtof building a town there. It came into being only because of the slate miningindustry, and is built in the shape of an inverted horseshoe – so you can beon one side of the town and look across the valley to the other side.In addition to valuing culture, many people, of course, also valued theirreligious heritage, but as in most other places in North Wales, this was a veryCalvinistic form of Protestantism. In the South Wales valleys, where coalmining was the dominant industry, Calvinism didn’t dominate in the sameway. This is something we should return to when we analyze the logistics ofwhat Orthodox mission involves in a post-Calvinist society.rte: When did the slate mining stop?fr. deiniol: It hasn’t stopped; it continues, but on a much-reduced scale.People sometimes compare the North Wales slate-mining areas with thePhoto: Blaenau Ffestiniog. Courtesy of Geraldine Fagan

TO BE FREE OR NOT TO BESouth Wales coal-mining valleys. If you go to a place called Tylotrstown inthe Small Rhondda Valley, you wonder where does Tylotrstown end andwhere does the next town, Ferndale, begin? These villages run into each otherin a row, whereas in North Wales slate-mining towns were quite separatecommunities, particularly Blaenau Ffestiniog, and there is a certain air ofisolation here. Also, of course, after the decline of the industry, it becamea post-industrial town, which means that this town, which produced an incomeof millions of pounds from which the local people never benefited, thenbecame a place of unemployment. We have all the characteristics of the postindustrialcommunities of north-east England that are one hundred timesour size, and the Pennsylvania coal-mining areas in the States: high degreesof social exclusion, substance abuse, family breakup, the break-down of socialcohesion.So this is the town I live in, a very poor town, high levels of unemploymentand many people with a sense of hopelessness. Nevertheless, they wouldn’tthink of turning to church, because the Calvinist legacy is a very negativeone. I’m not saying that everything was bad about the chapels; the Nonconformisttradition produced a genuine Christian spirituality with a reallove of Scripture, a real love of God, and very fine hymnography, but it hada shadow side, and this shadow side was Calvinism and its censoriousness,being very judgmental and placing people in categories. It wasn’t known forits compassion for the frail and vulnerable, or for those whose lives took anegative turn.rte: Scotland also has many adherents of Calvinism, doesn’t it?fr. deiniol: It does, and Calvinism was also strong in parts of South Africa,but the form of Calvinism there is not as extreme as the form that dominatedin Wales, where the belief in ‘Double Predestination’ was adhered to.rte: What is ‘Double Predestination’?fr. deiniol: The Calvinist doctrine is that God has predestined people frombefore the creation of the world for redemption. ‘Double Predestination’ isthe belief that God has predetermined and preordained not only who shallgo to heaven, but who shall go to hell. In other words, He has brought somehuman beings into existence, having already determined that they shall go tohell for eternity. They maintain that He has done this in His infinite WisdomPhoto: Blaenau Ffestiniog. Courtesy of Geraldine Fagan

Road to Emmaus Vol. X, No. 1 (#36)and that the logical contradiction between that and God’s infinite love is notfor us to question and understand. So, the God of love becomes, in theirtheology, a tyrannical and arbitrary monster, whose excesses are far worsethan the worst tyrants of human history, who only tormented people for alimited period of time. The God of Calvinism creates some people in orderthat they should suffer for eternity.rte: And this not only severs any notion of free will, but I imagine that youwould have to take care to appear “good” to prove that you are one of thesaved, or is that too simplistic?fr. deiniol: No, that’s very accurate. “How do we know who is saved?”“Oh, by their fruits you shall know them.” Accordingly, observable behaviorbecomes very important, and at a certain stage in the evolution of things,when conviction and faith are no longer so strongly present, this preoccupationwith appearances becomes a very distinctive characteristic of thesesocieties. That is certainly what I think happened in Wales. Also it meansthat people don’t look at the darker side of themselves, and don’t encountertheir shadow. Darkness is then projected onto other people, so you havegroups that are the scapegoats, the lowest of the low. Communities are veryhierarchical and there are people right at the bottom of the pile. In Wales,this emphasis on behavior also got linked up with the Temperance Movement,which, much as it may have been needed, divided the society into two– those who went to the chapel and those who went to the pub, those whodrank and those who didn’t (or at least said they didn’t drink.) To this veryday, many Welsh people who go to the pub will not visit a church or chapel.The two locations are thought to be mutually exclusive locations, andthose who frequent one of these places will usually hold the other place andits frequenters in contempt and think they will not be welcomed there! Bynow almost everybody does visit the pub, but the dichotomy persists andit is almost impossible to persuade people to visit a church. Furthermore,because every family was a ‘member’ of a Non-conformist chapel or of theAnglican parish Church, it means that people are still aware of their family‘Church allegiance’. They may still pay an annual fee for their family seat ina particular chapel, but never attend that chapel or any other place of worship,other than for baptisms, weddings, and funerals. However, they willuse their ancestral allegiance to a particular denomination as a reason not toPhoto: St. Hywyn’s Church, Aberdaron.

TO BE FREE OR NOT TO BEattend any other Church. An invitation to attend the Orthodox Church willtherefore usually be met with a negative response. Typically, they might say‘‘my ‘ticket’ (i.e. membership card which they maintain by payment of therent for their seat in the chapel!) is in such and such a chapel.” Yet they maynot have been there for 25 years.Of course, as you’ve mentioned, Calvinism undermines any doctrine of freewill. In fact they don’t believe in free will. Free will and predestination are opposingdoctrines. This is perhaps what happens when you eliminate the roleof the Mother of God from your theology, because it was of her own free willthat she said, “Be it unto me according to Thy will.” At that point she was freeto say, “No.” The redemption of the human race was in the balance at thatmoment. She could have said, “This is too much, I can’t take this on,” but insteadshe said, “Be it unto me…” So when you remove the Mother of God, andthe very pivotal nature of her response, then the door is open to do away withthe idea of free will in Christian theology, and the way is open for Calvinism.The Mother of God is our protection against Calvinistic doctrine. The Calvinisticdoctrine that some are chosen for heaven, and others for hell, not onlymakes God seem very arbitrary, but it undermines any idea that God is theGod of love and that our response to Him is a free and voluntary response.rte: In that case, you couldn’t possibly love Him yourself.fr. deiniol: Yes – love is voluntary, not compulsory. We can only love Godif we have free will. We might be frightened of Him, perhaps, or feel duty towardsHim, but without free will we cannot love Him. Without free will ourrelationship with Him is not reciprocal. This attitude has created antipathy,and although people now don’t go to church, they know something – nottheology, but the feel of Calvinism that permeates their culture. They keeptheir distance because they think they know what Christianity is, but it’s oftena negative impression. For this reason, it would be easier to undertake amission in Tibet than in a Calvinistic culture.I imagine it will take a generation or two for people not only to consciouslyreject specific Calvinistic perspectives and teachings, but to rid themselvesof its influence on their mentality. It has left behind a certain fatalism. Thesechapels have died very quickly. They are closing at the rate of one a week inWales, which is a small country, and it’s as if people are glad to shake off thewhole thing.Photo: St. Cybi’s Well. Courtesy of Geraldine Fagan11

Road to Emmaus Vol. X, No. 1 (#36)rte: Do you think that after these generations pass, people will be ready toreconsider Christianity?fr. deiniol: Because people free themselves doesn’t actually mean they willcome to church, but that particular obstacle won’t be there. There will beother obstacles then. When people begin asking questions about the meaningof life, about the significance of things, they begin to touch on religiousquestions, but in general, people are not asking these questions, and I saythis as one who has taught religious education for fifteen years here in Wales,and who has lived in this society most of his life.rte: Perhaps it’s a recovery period.fr. deiniol: If it acts as a recovery period that would be very good. Of course,this is an attempt to provide some sort of diagnosis or analysis, and I’m notsaying that I have answers as to what the strategy of the Orthodox Church inWales should be. God does things in His way and His time, and it would befoolish of me to say, “This is what we must do.” But I think we won’t go farwrong if, for example, as Orthodox people in Wales, we try to demonstratesome care for people in their situations in life. For example, in our townthere are high rates of unemployment. If our church can be instrumental inimproving people’s lives so that they aren’t plagued by constant problems,this may be a way to show that God loves them and cares about them, andcares about their situations.rte: Do you have ideas as to how your parish can participate in that?fr. deiniol: To be honest, although we are not numerous, many of us havebeen very actively involved in work in the community and for the regenerationof Blaenau Ffestiniog from the inception of our church. Orthodoxybelieves not only in life after death, but in life before death. The quality ofpeople’s lives is important. We are incarnate beings, not just souls, and wecan’t be happy if we see people hungry or in anguish. We have to be concernedabout people’s situations as a whole, in their totality.rte: Yes, and this approach has other 20th-century precedents. After WorldWar II and the Greek civil war, there was massive unemployment and manyGreeks were depressed and disillusioned with the Church. Fr. AmphilochiusPhoto: Retreat Chapel, St. Non’s Bay. Courtesy of Geraldine Fagan12

TO BE FREE OR NOT TO BEMakris, the well-known spiritual father of Patmos, said that the words ofpreachers and politicians were like throwing turpentine on the fire, and thatonly love and works of charity would bring them back to Christ.fr. deiniol: Well, the Gospel actually says that, doesn’t it? Why should I considerpreaching at people to be the main strategy? Why should they listen tome? For two centuries, they’ve listened to other preachers who didn’t makethem feel good. I have no mandate from them. They didn’t ask me to comehere and preach to them. On what basis would I assume that these peoplewant to hear what I’ve got to say? That’s the first thing.The second thing is that people do not go to church in Wales. I rememberasking a young person, “What would it take to get you to go to church?” Hesaid, “A great deal of courage to actually be seen coming into the building bymy friends.” This is very different from many countries, even from the States,as I know from my visits there. But we have to be aware of what things arelike in the United Kingdom and what things are like in Wales. And as I’vetried to explain in giving this Calvinistic background, I’m not surprised thatpeople don’t want to come to church.This not to say we don’t get any people coming into church. In fact, weget many visitors and my parishioners are a mixture of nationalities. ForChristmas we were ten nationalities, and there are also foreign Orthodoxstudents at the universities and colleges where I am chaplain. We conductour services in a number of languages, according to the need on any particularSunday. We’ve been very fortunate in the support we receive from ourhierarch, Bishop Andriy of Western Europe, who is a member of the Synodof Bishops of the Ukrainian Church of the Diaspora, within the EcumenicalPatriarchate.We are officially called The Wales Orthodox Mission, of which I am theadministrator. In fact, the term “mission” is not used very much in the U.K.by the Orthodox Church, but I think it is very important to state what weare. We are not a chaplaincy looking after a separate ethnic minority, norare we a well-established church full of people who have become Orthodox(although there are increasing numbers). We are a mission. And I think thatany church in Wales, whether Orthodox, Catholic, Anglican or anything else,should at this point call themselves a mission, because that is the nature ofthe situation.Photo: Grave Slabs, St. Tanwg’s Church, Llandanwg.15

Road to Emmaus Vol. X, No. 1 (#36)The Wales Orthodox Mission is the contact point between the OrthodoxChurch and Welsh institutions. If Welsh organizations wish to be in touchwith the Orthodox Church, they contact us, and we get many groups visitingus from churches and societies. I’m often asked to give talks and if subjectssuch as Eastern Europe or certain theological or social issues are beingdiscussed on the radio or TV, they sometimes ask me for an interview onthese topics as well. So our church is present and active, but I hope in a waythat corresponds to the needs, realities, and possibilities that exist at thisstage in Welsh cultural history.rte: We were told that you were invited to lead a prayer at the opening ofyour national parliament, the Welsh Assembly.fr. deiniol: This is quite an interesting history. Wales lost its independencein government 700 years ago, and approximately six years ago, we receivedour own government again, not completely independent, but with certainpowers. There was an ecumenical service to celebrate the opening of theWelsh Assembly Government, which took place at the Anglican cathedral inLlandaff, Cardiff. The Orthodox Church, amongst other churches, was invitedto make a contribution to the format of the service. I prepared two prayers.Each prayer had a response, and as the response I included, “All you saintsof Wales, pray to God for us.” The ecumenical organizers came back and saidthat they didn’t think this was acceptable. (Invocation of the saints, of course,had been outlawed during the Protestant period.) My response was, “If youinvite an Orthodox priest, you get an Orthodox response and an Orthodoxcontribution. If this is not acceptable, why do you ask us in the first place?”At that point I felt that the ghost of Thomas Cromwell was striding rampantlythrough Wales. Thomas Cromwell was Henry VIII’s henchman andoperator who closed all the monasteries throughout Britain, wrecked theshrines and relics, and destroyed the altars. I thought, “Well, they are stillunwilling to invoke the saints,” and was about to write a fax that evening tosay words to this effect, but at the moment I was about to send this letter,another fax arrived saying that the prayer was alright. So this prayer wasused and the response was used.Now the interesting part is this. On that occasion, the Queen of England,her husband the Duke of Edinburgh, and her son, Charles, Prince of Wales,were all present at the service. Normally, for security reasons, the three doPhoto: St. Tudclud’s Church, Penmachno.16

TO BE FREE OR NOT TO BEnot travel or appear together. So when that prayer was said, and the wholecongregation responded, “O, all you saints of Wales, pray to God for us!”,this was the first time such a phrase had been used in that cathedral since theReformation – with the successor of Henry VIII, the king who had originallymade such an invocation illegal, present and taking part in the service. Thatwas not an insignificant event, I think.rte: Wonderful. Can we go back some centuries and talk about how Wales,as we know it now, came into being?fr. deiniol: The process was complicated. We first had the Celtic-speakingnative British, who were pushed west as the invading Angles, Saxons, andJutes gained ascendancy. In some places the original population of Britonsprobably mixed with them, in other places not. In Strathclyde, now in Scotland,for example, the Welsh language was spoken until the twelfth century,and the first Welsh poetry is found in Catterick in northern Yorkshire inEngland. Even to this day, when we speak in Welsh of the “Old North,” wemean the area around Strathclyde.At a certain point, various of these invading tribes developed kingdoms,such as in Mercia, where a wall was built separating the Brythonic-speakingBritons who had gone west, from the conquering tribes. In about the 7th century,the word “Welsh” began to be used by the English Anglo-Saxons, meaning“foreigners,” and the Welsh called themselves Cymry, which means “thebrethren” or “compatriots.” We cannot speak of a separate England, Wales,and Scotland until that point.So, the original Brythonic-speaking people in the Old North, in Devon,Cornwall, and Wales, were now physically separated from one another.The Welsh language was eventually lost from the “Old North,” and so it isno longer possible to identify the descendants of the ancient Britons wholived there. The Scots are not their descendants, but descendants of Irishmigrants who settled there. That is why Scottish and Irish Gaelic are almostthe same language. The Cornish language died in the 18th century. The onlydescendants of the ancient Britons who can still be identified are the peopleof Wales, and this is because we have preserved our ancient language. Whatwe now call “the Welsh” is the identifiable remnant of the original people ofthe British Isles.Photo: Fr. Deiniol blessing St. Engan’s Well, Llanengan.19

Road to Emmaus Vol. X, No. 1 (#36)rte: We tend to think of centers of early Romano-British Christianity as beingnear such places as York. When the Romans pulled out in the fifth century,did Wales also have a fully-established hierarchical church?fr. deiniol: Of course. They say that Bangor-in-Arfon in North West Waleswas a diocese in the sense that we use the word now, as a territorial area fromthe sixth century. Bede talks about a monastery in Bangor-on-Dee (anotherBangor) with 2,000 monks. Certainly, there were Celtic bishops as well.Of course, we can’t speak about “The Celtic Church,” as if it was an organizedentity that incorporated what we now call Brittany, Scotland, Wales,and Ireland into an identifiable independent body. It was part of the worldwideChurch. It was catholic – but not in the contemporary sense of “RomanCatholic” – in faith and doctrine. There was coming and going, andthere was much interest on the Continent about what was happening in Britain.Many writers speak of early Christianity here, and early Fathers of theChurch mention it as well – Origen, Lactantius, Tertullian, Eusebius.They knew of the Christian Church in Britain, and monks used to travelto the East from the Celtic-speaking lands on pilgrimage. There was evangelizationalong the trade routes, and our monks certainly went to see monasticlife in Egypt, the Holy Land, Rome, and Constantinople. Monasticismhere seemed to resemble more the Lavra system than the classical coenobiticmonasteries that evolved in the West. There is also a tradition that the Celticbishops St. David, St. Teilo, and St. Padarn were all consecrated by the patriarchof Jerusalem. According to tradition, one was given a sakkos, thebishop’s vestment, another, a portable altar, and the third, a bishop’s staff.So there were connections with the East, but we don’t have to show a connectionwith the East to prove that this church of the Celts was catholic andorthodox in faith and doctrine. Yes, they had their local customs, such asshaving their head in a certain way for the monastic tonsure, as we find localcustoms today in various local Orthodox churches. And, as within Orthodoxytoday, they had different calendars. After the Synod of Whitby, when theChurch of the Celtic peoples adapted its local customs to conform to those ofRome, it came under Canterbury and thereby under Rome. So when the GreatSchism came about, it was part of the patriarchate of the West, and went withthe western Churches. Canterbury remained the primatial see of Britain.rte: How did the 11th-century Norman invasion affect Christian Wales?Photo: St. David of Wales, St. David’s Cathedral.20

Road to Emmaus Vol. X, No. 1 (#36)TO BE FREE OR NOT TO BEfr. deiniol: In Wales, the Normans established many monasteries. In fact,all the big abbeys were established by them. The most significant thing aboutthis was that, while previously the monasteries had followed the Orthodoxtradition of being independent and generally self-ruling, now each monasteryhad to belong to one of the Western religious orders. The Welsh oftenchose the Augustinians, as being perhaps the nearest to the way of life theywere accustomed to. There were also many Cistercian foundations in Wales,such as the monastery in Strata Florida. This is where the history of Wales,called “The Chronicles of the Princes,” in Welsh, Brut-y-Tywysogion, waswritten. The history of Wales begins with the death of St. Cadwaladr, the lastBriton – i.e. Celt, to be king of Britain before the Saxons obtained the crown.He is the patron saint of The Wales Orthodox Mission. He was known for hiscompassion, otherworldliness, and generosity – giving away his possessionsto those who had lost theirs and caring for the multitudes who were afflictedby a terrible plague which visited the land in those days.rte: With such a rich heritage, what allowed the Welsh and Scots to makesuch a radical change from traditional Catholicism and a Reformation-imposedAnglicanism, to Calvinism?fr. deiniol: By the 18th century, the Anglican Church in Wales was prettymoribund. It was led by English, non-Welsh-speaking absentee Anglicanbishops. Many of the clergy were also absentee and did not speak the languageof the people (by no means everyone in Wales could speak English inthose days).When the Methodist Revival broke out in the U.K. and spread to Wales,John Wesley and Whitfield, his colleague, came to an agreement that Wesleywould have England as missionary territory and Whitfield would take Wales.Methodism spread in Wales through the efforts of great “revivalists” likeHowell Harris, Daniel Rowlands, and especially the magnificent hymnographer,William Williams of Pantycelyn, whose hymns are, by any measure,classics comparable to the great hymnographers of any Christian tradition,East or West. Thus, the people of Wales were offered a vibrant and rich religiouslife, in their own language.Methodism became a popular movement – unlike the highly AnglicizedAnglican Church in Wales which was essentially the Church of the landownersand to which the ordinary Welsh people may never have been veryattached since the Reformation. The ordinary, poor Welsh people now hada form of Christianity of their own which flourished and produced somegood fruit.However, Whitfield was a Calvinist and so the form of Methodism thatspread in Wales was Calvinistic Methodisim. When a Welsh person speaksof Methodism, he or she generally means this Calvinistic variety also knownas the Presbyterian Church of Wales (the title they prefer these days).Methodism in England followed Wesley’s theology which was based on theteaching of Jacobus Arminius, which emphasizes free will as opposed to Calvin’spredestination.Later on, Wesleyan Methodism also came to Wales, but it was a minoritydenomination here and strong only in certain specific areas. However, theCalvinists maintain (and I have heard this point being made by a Calvinistminister in my house a few years ago) that the ‘Wesleyans’ have no right tobe in Wales owing to the agreement between Whitfield and Wesley.I must say that the ethos of each of the two forms of Methodism was verydifferent. They had very different cultures from each other. There was evena ditty about the Calvinists: ‘Nasty, cruel Methodists (i.e. Calvinists) who goto chapel without any grace....’rte: Have the Catholic and Anglican Churches returned in any force since?fr. deiniol: The Roman Catholic Church, which was illegal for hundredsof years, only returned in the 19th century, although a few “recusant” familieswho could afford to pay the fines, remained Catholic. Accordingly, mostRoman Catholics in Wales are not Welsh, but are usually partly of Polishor Irish extraction. There are some Welsh Roman Catholics but they aren’tnumerous.After the rise of Protestant Calvinism, the Anglican Church became a minoritychurch compared to the Non-conformist denominations such as Baptists,Congregationalists, and Calvinists. Only a small proportion of Welsh-speakingor culturally Welsh people belonged to it. This may still be true to somedegree. It was only in the 20th century that the Anglican Church in Walesgained its independence from Canterbury and became disestablished.So, we can say that this is a good time for Orthodoxy as a continuation ofthe Undivided Church, to be in Wales. None of the other churches dominateWelsh religious and cultural life, and people are not so sectarian in theirmentality – it doesn’t mean as much to them now that they are Baptists orCalvinists. There is a very friendly atmosphere.2223

Road to Emmaus Vol. X, No. 1 (#36)TO BE FREE OR NOT TO BEAlso, the prejudices against saints and their veneration (customs such aspraying at shrines and holy wells, which reflect the sacramental understandingof life) are now more acceptable. At least we aren’t in the position ofconfrontation, and that is helpful.rte: Are people becoming more interested as they see your attempts to recovertheir heritage?fr. deiniol: No, I don’t think so. The awareness of the saints is too lost.They are mostly remembered in place-names – for example, a majority ofplaces in Wales begin with the prefix “Llan.” This can mean the church building,but it also means a Christian settlement, usually founded by a Christiansaint. In many cases we are talking about the period of the Anglo-Saxoninvasion, when the original Celtic-speaking British peoples began movingwest. A saint might land on a coastal area, as did St. David, the patron saintof Wales, who went to a place called Vallis Rosina, “Valley of the Roses,”to live as a monk. The pagan tribes are at first hostile to him but eventuallypeople are attracted by the holiness of his life and become Christian; a communityforms, and around the community, a village. This is almost identicalto what St. Sergei of Radonezh did in Russia, founding new hermitages andmonasteries as he moved deeper into the forest.These new communities that came into being because people were attractedby the saint who lived there, are called Llan, and very often in Welsh placenames,the name that follows Llan is the name of a saint: Llandanwg – theChristian settlement and Church of St. Tanwg, or Llandudno – the Churchof St. Tudno.What is this country that we now call Wales? It is the sum total of theLlans, these places created by saints, communities that didn’t exist beforethey came. As we travel these roads we go through one Llan after another,and each one is a saint’s name. This is why I use the expression, “Wales is anation created by saints.”But, even with such a rich history, we need more to awaken us than anunderstanding of place names. The young people in Russia, for example,still have a link with their spiritual past after the collapse of Soviet atheism– their grandmothers were still Orthodox Christians – but what we’vehad here was a much longer break. Of course, after the Great Schism, I’msure that very little changed, and much in Roman Catholic practice wouldhave been indistinguishable from Orthodoxy for a very long time afterwards.Even that break, however, goes back a thousand years, and the Reformation,which was largely destructive of tradition, goes back 400 years.When we acquired our church, the Metropolitan suggested that we dedicateit to “All the Saints of Wales.” The idea is that when the church is finishedwith icons and frescoes, a person from any part of Wales will be able tocome here and find his saint. This is part of our task, recreating this link withhistory, and this is done by things like the service to mark the opening of theWelsh Assembly, and the opportunity to give talks and welcome visitors tothe church. Our mission exists on various levels and different fronts.rte: And the interest will not only be local. We come across many interestingaccounts of the strong appeal that the Celtic culture has, especially for youngpeople, in many parts of the world.fr. deiniol: Of course, wonderful things have survived, such as The Bookof Kells and the Lindisfarne Gospels. The art and imagery are amazing. TheChristian Celts had developed a profound and deeply Christian culture. It’snot surprising that this should be of interest to people in other countries.Orthodox youth in former Soviet countries or the emigration often think oftheir ancestral churches as something rather ethnic or old-fashioned. Otherthings appear more interesting to them. But it’s a little bit like the TrojanHorse isn’t it? If they become interested in Celtic history and culture, theywill soon find that inside, at the very core, is their own Christian faith.The question for us is how we can encourage our own young people to beremotely interested in anything Christian whatsoever. As an old colleagueof mine, Archimandrite Barnabas – the first Welsh Orthodox priest – usedto say, the cultural legacy of Calvinistic teaching seems to have provided animmunization against all religious search and questions.rte: May God give the blessing.2425

THE ANGELS OF AKUNWhen Archbishop Innocent Veniaminov’s future biographer, IvanBursakov, lamented the loss of the hierarch’s archives in a fire at theYakutsk monastery, the archbishop replied, “At any rate, they would have allburned with the earth at the apocalypse.” The disappointed Bursakov wasnot put off, however, and by the end of the 19th century had collected copiesof the archbishop’s letters and writings totaling nearly three thousandpages, to which we owe the following remarkable account.St. Innocent of Moscow and Alaska (1797-1879) born Ivan (John) Popov-Veniaminov in Irkutsk, Russia, spent over thirty years in Alaska, first as amissionary priest and later as Bishop of Kamchatka and the Kuril andAleutian Islands. In 1867 he was named Metropolitan of Moscow, andserved as the first hierarch of the Russian Church until his repose. Buried inHoly Dormition Cathedral at Holy Trinity-St. Sergius Lavra near Moscow,he was canonized a saint in 1977 by the Moscow Patriarchate.Rightly, St. Innocent is often called a “renaissance man.” A zealous andeffective missionary, he was also an able scholar, linguist, and administrator.He trained missionary-priests, organized and taught in primary andsecondary schools, learned several languages and six Alaskan dialects, and(at first together with his translator, Ivan Pan’kov, an Aleut chief) devisedalphabets, dictionaries, and grammars to translate the Holy Scripturesand church services, that native peoples might read and write their ownlanguages. One of Alaska’s first ethnographers and naturalists, his extensivecultural, geographical, botanical, and zoological observations, as well as hismajor pastoral works are still in print. 1 A married priest with six children,he was also an accomplished woodworker who crafted furniture, clocks, andhand and barrel organs, and aided in the construction of several churches,including St. Michael’s Cathedral in Sitka. In his early years as bishop, hewas one of only four priests ministering to ten thousand OrthodoxChristians in the Alaskan territories.His three decades as an Alaskan missionary were extraordinary. In onefourteen-month period of visits to outlying parishes, he covered almost fifteenthousand miles on foot and horseback, by boat, dogsled, reindeer andsleigh, frequently spending nights in the open in below-zero temperatures,lacking even the fuel to heat his food. As one writer notes, “His physicalexploits alone, in traveling through the territories of his diocese by dog-sledacross great expanses or in a one-man kayak through rough freezing waters,reveal something of his faith, courage, and inner stamina.”One of the most striking events of his early years as a young missionarypriest was Fr. John’s astonishing meeting with an elderly Aleut on a missionaryjourney to the island of Akun. Many of Akun’s villagers had beenbaptized thirty years earlier by Hieromonk Makary, one of the originalValaam Monastery monk-missionaries. Hindered, however, as Fr. Johnexplains, by the lack of a fluent translator, Fr. Makary had only given a1 Notes on the Islands of the Unalaska Region and An Indication of the Pathway Into the Kingdom ofHeaven remain in print in English. Besides Fr. John’s Full Orthodox Catechism in the Aleut language andtranslation of the Gospel, his Aleut Grammar and Aleut-Russian Vocabulary were awarded a prize by theRussian Imperial Academy of Sciences in 1836.2021

Road to Emmaus Vol. VIII, No. 2 (#29)THE ANGELS OF AKUNrudimentary explanation of the faith, and reposed before he could return.When Fr. John arrived in 1828 he was told of a series of miraculous eventsthat had sustained the faith of these local Christians, which he reported firstto his archbishop, Michael of Irkutsk 2 , and later in a less formal retelling tothe Holy Synod. 3 Here begins his report to the Synod:In April 1828, during Great Lent, I went for thefirst time to the island of Akun 4 to visit theAleuts. Approaching the island, I saw them allstanding on the beach, dressed as if for a celebration,and when I stepped ashore, they joyfullyrushed to greet me. When I asked why they wereso festively dressed, they answered, “Because weknew that you had set out and would arrive today,we, in great joy, have come down to the shore tomeet you.” “Who told you that I would cometoday, and how do you know that I am Fr. John?” “Our shaman (sorcerer),old Ivan Smirennikov, told us, and described you just as we see you now.”I found this rather strange and astonishing, but I didn’t give their wordsmuch attention and set about instructing them on how to prepare for HolyCommunion. The old shaman, too, came to me, expressing his desire to preparefor Communion. He attended the services very diligently, but I still didnot give him any special attention, and after serving him the Holy Mysteries,let him go. However, to my great surprise, after taking Holy Communion, hewent to his toion [chief] and expressed his dissatisfaction with me because Ihadn’t asked him at confession why the Aleuts call him a shaman. He foundit very unpleasant to be called “shaman” by his own people, whereas in facthe was not. The toion informed me of old Smirennikov’s discontent, and Iimmediately sent for him, that we might clarify the situation.2 Archbishop Michael II (Byrudov) of Irkutsk. Consecrated archbishop on 22 August 1826, reposed 5 June1830.3 There are several versions of this incident by Fr. John: the letter written in June, 1828, to ArchbishopMichael of Irkutsk, a Tobolsk copy of which was translated into English by Lydia T. Black; a later and lessformal report to the Synod (quoted at length in the present article) and possibly delivered verbally on hisvisit to St. Petersburg in 1839; and a version of the letter to the archbishop quoted in Barsukov’s Life (seebelow), identical to the Tobolsk copy translated by L. T. Black but with small additions that do not appearin other copies. These additions are noted in this article’s footnotes.4 According to Fr. John’s diary, he arrived on Akun on 12 April (Julian Calendar) 1828, leaving on 24 April.His talk with Smirennikov was on the evening of 23 April.22Those I had sent for him were still on the way when they metSmirennikov coming towards them. He said, “I know that the priest FatherJohn is calling me, and I am coming to him.” I began to question him indetail about his life, and when I asked if he could read, he answered that,although he could not, he knew the prayers and the Gospels. I then askedhim to explain how he knew me, how he had been able to describe myappearance to his people, and how he had learned that on a certain day Iwas to come to teach them to pray. The old man answered that two friendshad told him about it. “Who are these two friends of yours?” I asked. “Theyare white people,” the old man replied. “They also told me that in the futureyou will send your family home by the coast, and you yourself shall sail bywater to the great man (the Tsar) and speak with him. 5 ” “Where are thesefriends of yours, the white people, and what are they like?” I asked him.“They live nearby in the mountains and they visit me every day.” “Andwhen did they first come to you?” In reply, he told me a wonderful story.Soon after he was baptized by Hieromonk Makary, there appeared tohim, unseen by anyone else, first one spirit, and then a second, in human5 Ten years later, in 1838, Fr. John did indeed send his family home across the Bering Sea, up the coast toOkhotsk, then overland to Irkutsk. In November of 1838 to June 1839, Fr. John himself embarked on a voyagehalf-way around the world, sailing from Sitka to St. Petersburg around the Cape of Good Hope on theRussian ship Nicholas I, in order to report directly to the Synod and the Russian government about conditionsin Russian Alaska. After the sudden death of his wife Catherine, Fr. John made arrangements for hischildren in Irkutsk, and the following year took monastic vows with the name Innocent. It was asArchimandrite Innocent that he was granted an audience with Tsar Nicholas I (as Smirennikov had prophesied),and at the Tsar’s expressed wish was consecrated bishop.23

THE ANGELS OF AKUNform, white-faced and clothed in white garments that, according to hisdescription, looked like deacon’s vestments trimmed with rose-coloredbands. They told him that God had sent them to instruct, teach, and protecthim. For thirty years, they had appeared to him almost daily in the daytimeor late afternoon, but never at night. They instructed him in Christianteaching and in the mysteries of the Faith; also, they rendered him help inillnesses, and at his request, others (though rarely) 6 . They always respondedto his appeals saying, “We will ask God and if He gives his blessing, wewill fulfill this.” Sometimes they informed him of what was happening inother places; very seldom they told him the future, and always with theremark, “If God wills to disclose it,” meaning that they did this not throughtheir own power, but by the power of God Almighty.Although the teaching of these spirits seemed to be the doctrine of theOrthodox Church, I, knowing that the demons also believe and tremble,wondered if this wasn’t a shrewd and subtle trap of the evil one, and askedhim how the spirits taught him to pray – to themselves or to God, and howthey taught him to live with others. He replied that they taught him to praywith the spirit and the heart and sometimes prayed with him for a longtime. They taught him to practice all of the Christian virtues (which hedescribed to me in detail), and that above all, they advised to observe faithfulnessand purity, both within and outside of marriage. Moreover, theytaught him virtuous behavior and rituals, such as how to make the sign ofthe Cross, that we should never begin to do anything without asking God’sblessing, that we should not eat early in the morning, that many familiesshould not live together, and the like. 7Then I asked if they had appeared to him that same day afterCommunion, and if they had told him to heed what I said. He answeredthat they had appeared both after confession and after Communion, sayingthat he should not tell the sins he had already confessed to anyone else,that right after Communion he should not eat foods rich in fat, and that heshould attend to my teaching. They had even appeared to him that day onthe way to me and told him why I was calling him, and that he should tellme everything without fear because nothing bad would befall him.7 In Barsukov’s version is added, “… not to eat fish and animals that have just been killed and are still warmand not to eat some birds and animal-plants [zoophytes, such as jellyfish and sea anemones –ed.] at all, etc.”6 In an almost identical version of the letter, published in Barsukov’s Life, four years after St. Innocent’srepose, the angels rendered assistance “in case of illness or extreme lack of food.”Alaskan Native graveyard, Ouainkie (Spruce Island), Alaska.25

Road to Emmaus Vol. VIII, No. 2 (#29)THE ANGELS OF AKUNThen I inquired what he felt when they appeared to him – joy or sorrow?In their presence, he said, he felt pangs of conscience if he had done somethingwrong, but at other times he did not feel any fear. As many peopleconsidered him a shaman, and he was unwilling to be thus treated, herepeatedly asked them to depart from him. However, the spirits’ reply wasthat they were not demons and were not allowed to leave him. When heasked why they never appeared to other people, they said that such wasthe command they had been given.To make certain that his guides had indeed appeared, I asked him if Icould possibly see and speak with them. He answered that he didn’t knowand would have to ask them. Indeed, he returned within an hour sayingthat they had replied, “What more does he want to know about us? Doeshe still consider us to be demons? All right, let him see us and talk to us if hewishes.” They then said something favorable about me, but so that it willnot be taken as vanity on my part, I will keep silent about this.Then something inexplicable happened inside of me. I was seized with afeeling of fear and overwhelming humility. “Indeed,” I thought, “What if Isee these angels, and they confirm all that the old man has said? How canI appear before them? Sinful that I am, I am unworthy of speaking tothem, and it would be pride and presumption on my part if I dared to goto them. Meeting angels might make me too proud of my faith, or think toohighly of myself.” So I, the unworthy one, finally decided not to go to them.I gave some preliminary instructions as to these events, both toSmirennikov and to his Aleut people, and told them that they should nolonger call Smirennikov a shaman. 8In his more formal letter to Archbishop Michael, Fr. John also describestwo miracles that happened through the prayers of Smirennikov and aninstance of foreknowledge:8 Fr. John’s instructions to Smirennikov are given at slightly greater length in the Tobolsk copy of Fr. John’sformal letter to Archbishop Michael of Irkutsk: …Therefore, in order not to weaken (among the people) thefaith and hope in the One Omniscient God, I, until I receive instruction from Your Grace, determined to renderthe following decision: I see that the spirits which appear to thee are not demons and therefore I instructthee to listen to their teachings and instructions, as long as these do not contradict the teachings I deliver inthe assembly; just tell those who ask your advice about the future and request your help to address themselvesdirectly to God, as He is common Father to all. I do not forbid thee to cure the sick, but ask thee totell those thou curest that thou doest so not by thy own powers, but by the power of God and to instruct themto pray diligently and thank the Sole God. I do not forbid thee to teach either, but only instruct thee to confinethis teaching to the minors. [At this point, Barsukov’s version adds, ‘…As for the future, do not say aword about it to anyone, even to me.’] I told the other Aleuts who were present not to call him a Shaman,not to ask him for favors, but to ask God.”1. The wife of the toion of the village Artelnovskoye, one Fedor Zhirov,on October of 1825 was caught in a fox trap, and her leg was badlyhurt. There were no means to help her, and she was expected to diemomentarily. The trap hit her at the kneecap by all three iron teeth,about two vershok [1.75 inches] in length. Her kinsmen secretlyasked the said old man Smirennikov to cure her. After thinking thematter over, he said that the patient will be well by morning. And,indeed, the woman rose in the morning from her deathbed, and iseven now entirely well, not suffering any pain.2. In the winter of the same year, 1825, the inhabitants of Akun sufferedgreat lack of food, and some of them asked Smirennikov to pray fora whale to be washed ashore. After a short time the old man instructedthe people to go to a certain place, where they indeed found afresh whale carcass – precisely in the spot designated.3. Last fall I planned to visit Akun, but because of the arrival of stateships from Russia, I had to postpone the trip. Yet, the Akun peoplesent an escort and all expected my arrival. Only Smirennikov boldlyasserted that I would not come that fall, but should be expected nextspring. And so it happened, contrary winds did not permit mydeparture, then the cold weather set in, and I was forced to delay myvisit until spring.There are many additional instances which prove his gift of clairvoyance,but I shall omit them here.Fr. John continues his evaluation: “It is possible to suppose that this manhas heard from me or from someone else the teaching of our faith that herecounted, and only for effect or out of vanity invented the appearance ofthe spirits. Yet, I must state that Aleuts do not fall prey to pride, vanity, andempty bragging….”After enumerating scriptural events he had left out of his preaching,“for the sake of brevity and to avoid complications,” Fr. John commentsthat Smirennikov, “told me these stories in detail… He himself is illiterateand does not know any Russian; therefore he could not have read aboutit… and there is no one from whom Smirennikov could have learned in thematters of Church teaching… [Ivan Pan’kov, as the villagers witnessed,had never spoken to him, and hearing others call him a shaman, discour-2627

THE ANGELS OF AKUNaged them from doing so also.] Moreover, the freedom, fearlessness andeven pleasure of his discourse, and above all his clean manner of life, convincedme and confirmed me in the conviction that the spirits whichappear to this old man (if they appear) are not demons. Demons maysometimes assume the image of Angels of Light, but never for the purposeof instruction, teaching and salvation of human beings, but always fortheir perdition. As the tree of evil cannot bear the fruit of good, these spiritsmust be the servants sent to those who seek salvation.”Fr. John again explains to the archbishop why he himself did not dare togo to see the bright spirits who appeared to Smirennikov, “ …There was noneed for me to meet them. Why should I want to see them personally whentheir teaching is Christian teaching? Out of curiosity, to learn who theyare?” For this I should ask the blessing of my Archbishop, to avoid the pitfallof error, should I meet those spirits...”He ends his letter to the Archbishop with the words: “In reporting to you,Your Grace, I deemed it necessary to ask Ivan Pan’kov, who translated mywords and those of …Smirennikov, to sign this statement in witness of thetruth of my story and the correctness of his translation. I also requestedhim to keep this matter secret for the time being. I beg Your Grace to let meknow if my decision was right, and if there is any need for me to meet withthe spirits which appear to the old man, and if so, what precautions Ishould take. If I erred, forgive me. 9Signed: Your Grace’s Priest John Veniaminov, of the Church of Ascensionin Unalashka, June 1828Signed: below by interpreter Pan’kov as follows:To the truth of the words of Priest John Veniaminov and the accuracy oftranslation of the words of the old man Ivan Smirennikov attests Tigal’daToion Ivan Pan’kovTrue copy of the original, Tobol’sk, 5 November 18299 Barsukov’s version adds: “Your Eminence, merciful Archpastor! Having put down the facts you see above,I beg you to give me your …archpastoral instruction and permission: if I was right in this matter and, if I canand need, if the old man is still alive, to meet and talk with the spirits that appear to him and if so, what precautionsI should take.”Spruce Island nature.29

Road to Emmaus Vol. VIII, No. 2 (#29)THE ANGELS OF AKUNFr. John’s concern about the reception of the report if it were to be generallyknown is reflected in an unpublished letter to Archbishop Michael on July20, 1828, “…The description of my talk with the Aleut Smirennikov enclosedhere is not an official report. I might have never reported this event thatseems so strange to me if I didn’t rely completely upon your fatherly mercyto me. Reading the account, someone may think that, at the least, I am notalien to superstition and empty holiness. But I have thehonour of reporting to your Eminence that everything put down here is true,and I obediently ask your forgiveness if I was not right in doing this…” 10In his reply to Fr. John, 11 Archbishop Michael commends his reasoning,but nevertheless blesses him to meet the mysterious heaven-dwellers:…True, this event is most rare and unheard of in our times. ThereforeI thought it necessary to impart it, if not to all of my acquaintances,to those distinguished in mind and heart, in whom it evoked aparticular zeal to further hear any extraordinary event that maybefall your Smirennikov during this year, as well as in the future…I will tell you, without flattery either to your face or behind your back,that you, not allowing curiosity to prevail over your faith, are to bemore commended than all those who, like the Holy Apostle Thomas,subject the objects of faith to sensible perception. Nevertheless, asThomas’ disbelief is called good in our church hymns, my desire is,as well as many others’, that for the sake of yet greater glory of ourrighteous faith, you should resolve (provided that old Smirennikov isstill alive) to meet and speak with the spirits that appear to him.No greater caution is required than your pure faith and the prayerof the heart: only keep in mind the Lord’s Prayer during this meeting,and say it together with the spirits. As for your conversation withthem, it should be solely concerned with the future of your parishioners,the new Aleut converts. Whatever good you desire for them,ask this of God. For the clever, this will suffice.10 Quoted as an unpublished letter in Tom II, Prilozheniye k rabote: “Svyatitel Moskovskii InnokentiiVeniaminov i ego epistolyarnoye naslediye...” (Volume II. Supplement to the Thesis, “Holy HierarchInnocent Veniaminov (1797-1879) and his Epistolatory Heritage, a course paper by fourth year student JobZamborsky, Russian Church History Department, Leningrad Orthodox Spiritual Academy (1980). (Fromthe collection of the Moscow Patriarchal Synodal Library, Andreevsky Monastery, Moscow.)11 Quoted in Met. Vladimir of Tashkent and Central Asia. (see footnote 4)Inform me by letter at a time convenient to yourself, or in personat our future meeting, of whatever God, through the gift of HisChrist, grants you to learn. Invoking God’s blessing upon you, I everremain, your well-wishing servant.+Michael, Archbishop of IrkutskBut the angels sent to the old Aleut did not reveal themselves to humancuriosity, however pious. In his next visit to the island of Akun, Fr. Johnlearned that Smirennikov had reposed.A final fitting comment on the occurrence comes from an acquaintance ofSt. Innocent, Andrew Muravev: “One scarcely knows at which to be amazed –the miraculous gifts of the old Aleut or the humility of the missionary whoin patience is denied a singular opportunity to satisfy his obviously holycuriosity in such an unusual matter, simply in order not to transgress thecommandment of obedience. The old man’s premature death, however,vindicated his actions by showing clearly that these revelations had beennecessary for himself, his family, and his people only for as long as theAleutian Islands remained spiritually neglected. Now, however, by thegrace of God, people have come to work towards their salvation, and theheavenly guides concealed themselves once again.” Nevertheless, “It iscomforting to read about such miraculous Divine Providence towards… sonsof Adam who, though forgotten by the world, were not forgotten byProvidence, but because human means were lacking, were fed through thefaith of one of their elders upon the saving faith.” 12SOURCES1. With the exception of Fr. John’s letter to Archbishop Michael of Irkutsk(see below), the translations in this article are by Inna Belov and M.Nectaria McLees. The report to the Synod and Archbishop Michael’swritten answer to Fr. John’s letter was translated from: Vladimir,12 Quoted in Garrett, Paul D. St. Innocent, Apostle to America., SVS Press, Crestwood, N.Y., 1979, pg. 853031

THE ANGELS OF AKUNMetropolitan of Tashkent and Central Asia, Slova v dni pamyati osobopochitayemikh svyatikh (Words on the Feast Days of ParticularlyVenerated Saints, Book III ). In Russian:http://www.pravoslavie.uz/Vladika/Books/Slovo3/18Innokentiy.htm2. “Letter from Rev. Priest John Veniaminov to Archbishop Michael ofIrkutsk,” 5 November, 1829, translated by Lydia T. Black in “IvanPankor, Architect of Aleut Literacy,” Orthodox Alaska, #8, 1978. Withgrateful acknowledgement to Professor Black for permission to cite hertranslation of the letter throughout this article (also reprinted inAlaskan Missionary Spirituality, Paulist Press, 1987). [Note from RtEEditor: The original letter to Archbishop Michael II of Irkutsk was writtenin June of 1828, two months after the incident. The date of 5November, 1829 assigned to the letter in Alaskan MissionarySpirituality refers to the date the letter was hand-copied in Tobolsk.]4. Details of the letter to Archbishop Michael of Irkutsk as published inIvan Barsukov’s initial biography: Innokentii, mitropolit Moskovskii iKolomenskii, po ego sochineniyam, pis’mam i rasskazam sovremennikov(Innocent, Metropolitan of Moscow and Kolomna. His Writings,Letters and Stories Told by his Contemporaries.) Moscow, SynodalPrinting House, 1883. (From the collection of the Moscow PatriarchalSynodal Library, Andreevsky Monastery, Moscow, Russia.)5. Fr. John’s unpublished letter to Archbishop Michael II of Irkutsk onJuly 20, 1828 was translated from: Zamorsky, Job, Tom II, Prilozheniyek rabote: “Svyatitel Moskovskii Innokentii Veniaminov i ego epistolyarnoyenaslediye...” (Volume II. Supplement to the Thesis, HolyHierarch Innocent Veniaminov (1797-1879) and his EpistolatoryHeritage, by Job Zamborsky, Leningrad Orthodox Spiritual Academy,1980. (From the collection of the Moscow Patriarchal Synodal Library,Andreevsky Monastery, Moscow.)Please remember in your prayers, Professor Lydia Black,the “mother” of Russian-American and Alaskan Orthodoxnative studies, who reposed in the Lord on March 12, 2007.Memory Eternal!St. Herman’s Spring.33

…Krom, he who has been born in your mountains, grown old on yourpeaks, and been buried in your earth, for what does he need paradise?(Kromnean folksong)In late 2006, Road to Emmaus spent a week in Thessalonica, Greece, in the company of GeorgeAndreadis, whose relatives and friends were among the last crypto-Christians of Turkey. In thefirst of an astonishing two-part series, George relates the history of Orthodox Greeks who,appearing outwardly as Ottoman Muslims, kept their faith alive through two centuries of catacombexistence. The founder of Interplan, an international trust company, George has publishedover forty books and articles on the history of the Black Sea Coast and its GreekChristian population. He still lives in Kalamaria, the Pontic Greek refugee neighborhood wherehe was born. Road to Emmaus is the first English-language journal to feature his work.The BeginningFAITH UNSEEN:THE CRYPTO-CHRISTIANSOF PONTUSPart IBy George AndreadisThis story begins with the father of my grandmother’s great-grandmother,who was born in Varenou, in Pontus, near the Black Sea coast, on February2, 1760. He was the seventh child of a poor farmer’s family who went on toplay a dramatically important role in the lives and destinies of thousands offellow-villagers from Varenou and the villages around Kromni. I learned ofhim and his descendants from my grandmother, Aphrodite Andreadou(born Grammatikopoulou), who was also born in Varenou and had heardthe stories from her own grandmother, his granddaughter. Aphrodite’smemory was phenomenal. For 18 years, I listened as she recited our familyhistory, first with pleasure as a child, and later, with increasing awe andunderstanding. Of her great-great grandfather, she would say, “He wasborn in Varenou on Koundour (February) 2, the day of the Presentation inthe Temple, and died of achparagma (fright) on the day of the Holy Spirit.When he died, he was 83 years old.”My grandmother Aphrodite never said an untrue word. When we pressedher for details or explanations, instead of adding something to make thestory more interesting or giving possible reasons, she would only answer, “Idon’t know. That was how it was when I was born.” She could neither readOpposite: Bottom right: Aphrodite Andreadou (+ 1955), grandmother of George Andreadisand great-great-granddaughter of Mullah Molasleyman. Bottom left: Maria EphtichidouZade, Aphrodite’s mother and Gülbahar’s granddaughter (in-law). Top left to right:Aphrodite’s sisters, Irene and Sophia, with a young niece.3

Road to Emmaus Vol. VIII, No. 4 (#31)FAITH UNSEENnor write, nor did she understand chronological dating. She dated as theancient Greeks, who referred to the events of a reigning king, the number ofthe Olympiad, or a great catastrophe. For instance, when my father wouldsay that a certain woman was born in 1914, my grandmother would reply, “Idon’t understand what that means, but she is 40 years old.” My fatherwould argue, “But if she is 40 years old, that means she was born in 1914.”“I don’t know about that, but she was born the second year after the Turkishinvasion of Batum, during the typhus epidemic.” Where did my grandmotherlearn this ancient Greek system of dating? It was tradition. “It waswhat we have always done.”And this is how we arrived at the year of the death of my grandmother’sgreat-great grandfather. We knew that he died at 83 years old, and that hisdaughter, my grandmother’s great-grandmother, was 59 that year. Goingback, we calculated that he had died in 1843, which fit precisely with thenames of the local rulers and the events that my grandmother described.When my father and I, as well as professional historians, have workedbackwards to verify the dates of the events she narrated, Aphrodite wasalways right. I say this to pass on my faith in the historical accuracy ofeverything that she told me. In the following account, although calendardates and general historical and political events are my own research, thedetails of Kromnean crypto-Christian life and customs are from my grandmotherand from Fr. Nicholas Economides of the Church of Metamorphosi(Transfiguration) of Kalamaria, Thessalonica, who was also of Pontiandescent, and who told me much about the crypto-Christians. My grandmotherdid not have this larger historical view. She knew nothing about theoppression that had caused the Christians to conceal themselves. She wouldonly reply, “We were born into this. We were thus, and we lived so…”My family was from Pontus, a region on the Black Sea coast that hadChristian inhabitants even before Emperor Constantine the Great legalizedChristianity in 313. After Constantine, the Christians lived in peace foralmost 200 years until the early sixth century, when Byzantine EmperorsJustin I and Justinian I came into conflict with the kings of Persia, Kavad Iand Khosro (Chosroes) I. There were fierce battles in the area of Trebizond(modern-day Trabzon) and many of the local people took refuge in themountainous area of Kromni, building their homes on the tall forested cliffs(in Greek, Kremos), away from the Persian raids. These people were calledKromet, or Kremet, or more recently, Kromnaioi [Kromneans]. During theseventh-century reign of Emperor Heraclius (610-641), the ByzantineEmpire was divided into administrative units called themes and Pontus fellinto the 21st theme, the prefecture of Chaldia.Under the Byzantine Empire of the Comnenes, the Kromneans heavilyfortified the area. Although rugged and isolated, Kromni was in the pathwayof Mongol raiders who frequently attacked Trebizond. Later, Armeniansinvaded the territory, killing off whole generations until only a small remnantsurvived.For centuries, Pontus was isolated by its 700-mile chain of towering peaksand river-fed chasms, threaded with narrow muddy tracks on which, evennow, it is easy to lose one’s way in the dense forests of black pine and impenetrablealpine mist. As if approaching an island, visitors sailed to Pontusover the Black Sea rather than attempt the unyielding peaks from the south.Beyond the torturous summit of the Zagara pass, and several days journeyby pack animals from Trebizond, the barren low-lying mining region ofKromni was an isolated refuge for crypto-Christians. Eagles and vultures,wild boar, deer, bears and wolves, all made their homes there.The area, of course, was completely Christian, and being on the coast,Trebizond was always the largest city of the area and the episcopal seat. In1461, eight years after the Fall of Constantinople, when the Sultan MehmetFathih (Mehmet the Conqueror) conquered the city, it had 25,000 GreekChristians and over seventy churches. At the conquest, 800 young PontianChristians voluntarily went over to Islam. Through inheritances and bequests,the Pontian Church had become a huge land-owner, and it was said that somemonasteries took advantage of their tenant-farmers. For some of these youngpeople the coming of Mehmet could have seemed like a socialist movement,and they may have thought, “Now is the chance for us to get ahead.”After the conquest, Sultan Mehmet II left his Christian subjects the rightto hold religious services, perform marriages, adjudicate court casesbetween Christians, and educate Christian youth, overseen by the patriarchof Constantinople. But there were also many evils: churches were seized andturned into mosques and, for over 200 years, the Turks took the strongestand brightest boys from Christian families in Ottoman-occupied Europe andforcibly converted them to Islam as Janissaries – an elite military corps dedicatedto the sultan. 1 Still, Christians played an important role in maintain-1 Janissaries: This form of human “taxation,” occurred mostly in Ottoman-occupied Europe from the fall ofConstantinople in 1453 until the mid-17th century, although it was instituted earlier in the conqueredBalkans.45

Abandoned Church of St. Theodore, Saranda, Kromni.

Road to Emmaus Vol. VIII, No. 4 (#31)FAITH UNSEENing standards of law, medicine, and academics. Often more educated thantheir Muslim conquerors, they were necessary to the administration of theOttoman Empire.In the 16th century, however, Muslim fanaticism arose. Constantinople(today’s Istanbul 2 ) was no longer so closely watched by the EuropeanChristian countries which were fighting their own wars, and the Turks dividedthe country into regions, each under a terebey – a landlord. Each terebeywas a despot. If the terebey was good, his subjects lived in relative peace; ifnot, they suffered. But whether the terebey was good or bad, each one waschosen as a devout, even fanatic Muslim. The religious toleration of SultanMehmet II was forgotten, and oppressive taxation and violence againstChristians increased.The main square of Trabzon is still called Gavur Meydani (The Square ofthe Infidels). Why? Because it was during this difficult time in the 16th-17thcenturies that the farmers around Maçka attempted a revolt. Knowing thatFriday was the Muslim day of prayer, they came to the city armed withscythes, axes, and other field tools, to take the city. The revolt failed and fivethousand Christians were killed in this square.Although some Greeks remained openly Christian, burdensome taxes anddiscrimination caused many to convert to Islam and their children todayare Turkish Muslims. Another large group said, “No, we will keep our religion,but how will we survive? How can we save our lives and the honor ofour daughters?” In the end, they became secret Christians.Although denying Christ, even outwardly, is a sin for a Christian, duringthese times when many civic leaders, the educated, and wealthy turned toIslam, how could illiterate and primitive mountain people be held accountable?In many cases the Eastern Christian Church accepted the solution ofcrypto-Christianity so as to withstand the waves of voluntary and compulsoryIslamization that were leaving churches empty of believers.These Greeks of Asia Minor lived as concealed Christians for almost 200years. Although this has been called a mercenary response to avoid harassmentand excessive taxes, harsh periods of oppression could have meant economic2 Constantinople/Istanbul: In the Byzantine era, Constantinople (The City of Constantine) was commonlyreferred to as “i Poli,” that is, “The City.” This usage, still current in colloquial Greek, also became the sourceof the later Turkish name, Istanbul, from the Greek phrases eis tin polis (in the city) or stin polis (to the city).Istanbul was the common name for the city in normal Turkish speech even before the conquest of 1453,although Ottoman authorities preferred other variants, such as Kostantiniyye, in some official contexts andon coins until the 19th century. The various alternative forms (Constantinople, Kostantiniyye, Tsarigrad)only became obsolete after the creation of the Turkish republic in 1923, and the refusal of Turkish postalauthorities to deliver any letter or parcel with a non-Turkish address.8ruin and starvation. Without knowing the individual circumstances, it is impossibleto judge the motives of those who chose this way of life. Maintaining asecret Christian life was always difficult and dangerous. By strict Islamic law,faithful Muslims tolerate Christians and Jews, but the conversion of a Muslimto another religion is punishable by death. Thus, the choice to become crypto-Christian affected not only those who made the initial decision, but theirdescendants for many generations, who, even if they desired, could not revealtheir faith. In public they were Ottoman Muslims.Not only were they obliged to appear Muslim, but crypto-Christians wereoften isolated from fellow-Christians who openly professed theirChristianity, and in some areas it would have been a great mistake to tellother Christians of their existence. If a private dispute later arose betweenthem or their families, the professed Christians could simply go to theOttoman authorities and give them away.In Kromni, however, relations were good, and the professed Christians,who began moving into the area in the 1700s to work in the mines, lived inpeace with the crypto-Christians. The crypto-Christians, who had secretedthemselves fifty years before, knew, of course, who the professed Christianswere and as “Muslims” quietly helped them when any problem arose withthe Ottoman authorities. The professed Christians who knew about theirneighbors never betrayed them. The fear of God possessed them all. Often,the only person who had extensive knowledge of which villages and familieswere crypto-Christian was a local hierarch, such as the metropolitan ofTrebizond, who ordained priests for them from among their own people. Ineach case, the professed Christian bishop of the area was aware of their hiddenexistence, as the sacraments could not be served without his blessing,and in Pontus there were no crypto-Christian bishops.As I said, throughout these two hundred years, the crypto-Christians ofKromni protected the openly professed Christians. For example, at thebeginning of the 19th century, when the Greeks of the Peloponnese rose upagainst Ottoman rule and destroyed Muslim villages, a group of fanaticMuslim young people took to the streets of Trebizond to “kill the infidels,”rounding up and imprisoning all of the professed Greek Christian men. Theywere rescued by Osman Bey, the governor of the Trabzon region, who washimself of crypto-Christian origin.Real Ottomans rarely lived in the Kromni mining villages, so their administrationalmost always fell to the lot of Muslims who were crypto-Christian.9

FAITH UNSEENMany of these crypto-Christian aghas and elders were coarse and wicked,yet both the crypto-Christians and the professed Christians preferred thembecause they knew that their lives and their honour were safe.The crypto-Christians had no written contracts between themselves. Anybusiness agreements, purchases, rentals, or marriage settlements began withthe set phrase: “In the name of the Holy Trinity and the 318 God-BearingFathers…” 3 Such an agreement was never known to have been disputed, nordid anyone ever threaten to inform the authorities. These agreements werekept because people pledged on their faith in Christ and the Virgin Mary; itwas impossible to break such a contract. Now, they break even written ones.Kromni Under the OttomansKromni began to prosper around the time of Sultan Murad IV (1623-1640),after the sultans decided to mine the mineral wealth of the area. The minesquickly multiplied and so did the workers, who at first were mostly crypto-Christians seeking places away from the large coastal towns and Ottomanadministrators, where they could more easily maintain their manners, customs,language, and religion. As the mines were the property of the Sultanand those who worked them were classified as public servants, miners andtheir families were exempt from serving in the Ottoman army, which wasotherwise compulsory for all Muslims (and crypto-Christians who appearedto be Muslim).The general supervisor, who advised the Sultan, and the mines’ chief managers,could only be Muslim Turks, but many crypto-Christians who werebelieved to be Muslims reached these positions. Because the Turks lookeddown on this work, the miners were almost exclusively Greek, and this was thegoal of the crypto-Christian administrators, who wanted to maintain an ethnichomogeneity without spies or traitors. At the time of its greatest prosperity,the area was inhabited by 6,000–10,000 people in the area of Kromni, and60,000 in nearby Argyroupoli, all of whom spoke a Greek dialect calledRoméika, as do many of the Black Sea Turks today. 4 The Turks had no inter-3 318 God-bearing Fathers: Referring to the 318 bishops present at the First Ecumenical Council in Niceain 325.4 Even as late as 1914, the Ecumenical Patriarchate estimated the number of Greek-speaking Muslims inthe Black Sea area of Pontos at 190,000. These were from formerly Christian families, who had beenIslamicized after the Ottoman conquest.George Andreadis11

Road to Emmaus Vol. VIII, No. 4 (#31)FAITH UNSEENest in whether the miners spoke Greek or Turkish, as long as the mines wereproperly run and taxes were paid. Over time, the isolated Kromneans becamerelatively secure and, once the Hatti Humayun decree of 1856 granted a marginof tolerance, they were quick to establish Greek-speaking schools.Kromni was comprised of the following districts: Alithinos, Frangandon,Glouvena, Kodonandon, Loria, Mohora, Mantzandon, Nanak, Rakan,Roustandon, Sarandon, Samanandon, Sainandon, Tsahmanandon,Zeberekia, and several smaller villages. In the 1700s, despite a small openlyprofessedChristian population and the secure life and stable income of themines, there were no churches in Kromni. The ruins of a monastery that hadbeen destroyed at the time of the Persian invaders still stood on Mount St.Zacharias, and the remains of an ancient church could be seen in the centerof Kromni, but under Turkish law, neither new churches could be built norold ones repaired. Strange to outward eyes, however, neither did this entireregion of “Muslims” have a single mosque, as if they were infidels.Yet there was no place that had as many secret churches as Kromni. Everyhouse had a tiny catacomb chapel in which the crypto-Christians secretlyfulfilled their Christian duties, concealed from visiting Muslims and the fewOttomans who lived with them as public servants and administrators.There were also other places of worship. For instance, near the village ofSarandon was a bush-covered hill with a secret entrance leading to a cavechurch,Krymentsa Panayia which they called “The Hidden Virgin.” Thechurch persevered there, undiscovered for centuries, inside the little hill.The crypto-Christian house churches were normally underground and oneentered through a trap-door, from which steps led down into the chapel. Thetrap-doors were hidden from view under fodder, or behind furniture or provisions.After dark, with curtains drawn and shutters closed, the floor coveringor furniture could be pulled back, and people would descend to pray. The iconcoveredwalls were lit by small oil lamps and beeswax candles, heavy with thescent of resin incense. It was here, in their own tiny catacomb churches, thatChristians gathered at night for services, prayers, and sacraments.The Pontian houses, called saray, were decorated outside with simpleblue geometrical designs or flowers. The crypto-Christian houses were nodifferent from the seraya of real Ottomans. They generally had two floors,the ground floor being the stable, on one side of which the animals werekept, while the other was generally used for storage. Inside this storeroomwas the trap-door with steps leading to the secret chapel.In those days, the dress of both men and women was noble, the clothingof the Ottoman Orient. Men wore long, loose breeches that flowed out oneither side as they walked. A belt at the waist tied the long shirt to thebreeches, and a vest added dignity. During the winter, the men wore magnificentovercoats and their heads were covered with fez or turbans.Women’s clothing varied from region to region, some rather European, othersmore eastern, and as one can see from old pictures, it was both beautifuland graceful. Even at the end of the 19th century, when the Kromneanswere able to publicly proclaim their Christianity and many of the men threwoff their Ottoman dress for the Greek Pontian zipkes (trousers), others continuedto wear their Ottoman clothes, seeing in them a mark of dignity.Mullah MolasleymanThis was the time in which my grandmother’s great-great-grandfather lived.He was born in Ottoman Varenou on February 2, 1760, left Varenou when hewas sixteen and returned six years later, when he married and had a family.Of those six years, my grandmother Aphrodite only knew that he went first toTrebizond and then to Constantinople. When he returned to Varenou, however,he could read and write Turkish and Arabic, and could recite Arabictexts from the Koran with an ease unknown to the peasants in those years ofignorance and illiteracy. In a short time he became the hodja for the Muslimsof Varenou and the villages around Kromni. Although young, he was seriousand clever, and after a few years was the only person trusted to advise andadjudicate between the peasants of his area. He was known as MullahMolasleyman, and everyone respected him as a cleric and as a kadi (a judge). 5He was their native son, their own hodja. His knowledge of Turkish was agreat help to the villages, as he could communicate with the Turkish-speakingpublic officials sent to Kromni by the Ottoman rulers of Argyroupoli(today’s Gümüshane), the district to which the villages of Kromni belong.Even in the 1700s, the Muslims of Kromni did not speak Turkish, but theso-called Greek Roméika, and the few Turkish families who settled thereafterwards forgot their Turkish within two or three generations. My grandmotherwas unable to explain how such things had happened, but answerednegatively when I asked her if these Muslims were Greeks (Romioi) who hadbecome Muslim by force. Although she was letter-perfect in our family his-5 Although like all crypto-Christians he had a secret Christian name from baptism, we do not know what it was.1213

Old aerial view of Kromni, early 20th century.

Road to Emmaus Vol. VIII, No. 4 (#31)FAITH UNSEENtory, this simple woman had no way of knowing the historical events of thesix generations from “the change” around 1650, when the Pontic crypto-Christians first appeared, until they were able to declare themselves 200years later. Even now, in the areas of Ofi (Of) and Thoania (Tonya), theMuslims speak Roméika as their mother tongue, and they call the period ofRamadan Triod (i.e. Triódion, the Greek for the three-ode canons sung duringGreat Lent).An absolute majority of Kromeans were crypto-Christian. Among themwere local people of distant Persian descent who had also become Christian,and a few foreign technical specialists for the mines. We know of these foreignersbecause of the area called Frangandon (Europeans were called“Frangos” in the local language, and surnamed after their nationality, suchas “Germanides.”)Mullah Molasleyman was ordained an Orthodox priest by Dorotheos III,Archbishop of Trebizond (1764-1790), after his return to Varenou in 1782. 6Although the area of Kromni belonged to the Metropolis of Chaldia, thecrypto-Christians of Kromni were under the Metropolis of Trebizond forsecurity. The Chaldian diocesan headquarters in Argyroupoli was too smalland close for frequent contact to go unnoticed, but Trebizond was a largecity, 120 kilometers away.It was not uncommon for an Orthodox crypto-Christian priest to also actas the local mullah in crypto-Christian communities. He was often the onlyeducated person who could speak and read Turkish, Arabic, and ecclesiasticalGreek (enough for the services), as well as Roméika. If the village was allcrypto-Christian and very isolated, the crypto-Christian priest did not haveto pretend to be a Muslim mullah, he was simply known to the outside worldas a simple Muslim. But if the village was larger or had enough of a Muslimpopulation to have a Turkish gendarme, the priest was also often the mullah,which added to the security of the crypto-Christians. If a crypto-Christianacted as mullah, he was also the defacto leader of the Muslim community,and would know immediately if there was a threat against the Christians.This had to be, because what explanation could a village give for not havingMuslim religious services? Even if they had no real Muslims in the village,6 Ed. Note: It is tempting to speculate that Mullah Molasleyman may not only have been ordained byArchbishop Dorotheos III, but was perhaps sent by him to Constantinople/Istanbul as a youth for trainingas a mullah, foreseeing that the well-being of Kromni’s crypto-Christians depended on his fulfilling the dualroles of mullah and priest. If not sent, he certainly took on the outward role of a Muslim clergyman with thearchbishop’s blessing.they had to have someone official to show when the authorities came around,because outwardly they were Muslim. If there was no local mullah, who wasalso one of them, it would have been a terrible problem.In Mullah Molasleyman’s village of Varenou, surprisingly, there was nomosque or even a simple camii, the open-air platform set aside for Muslimprayers in villages that could not afford to build a mosque. The villagers ofVarenou always told visiting Turkish officials, “We are too poor to build amosque, but we will try to gather the money to build a camii.” The camii wasnever built.Festal Customs: Theophany Eve and the Church New YearMy grandmother used to say, “As secret Christians, we were more strict thanthe open Christians. We kept every feast and every tradition.” The feastswere celebrated with absolute secrecy, the fasts kept with great solemnity,and liturgy and Holy Communion took place with the fear of God. Greatchurch feasts were celebrated much as they are now, but I will mentionsome customs that have disappeared in our times.A deeply moving tradition took place on the eve of Theophany. The familygathered in the underground chapel where, on a small table, they placeda bowl of wheat and corn into which they put lit candles, each candle dedicatedto a dearly deceased member of the family. The last candle was lit forthe unknown dead, for those who had no one to commemorate them. Thesmall dark church was lit only by these candles, and the family remainedthere, with the priest or head of the family offering the prescribed prayersand chants until the last candle melted.Each year on the 1st of September, the Church New Year, from beforedawn the priest visited the homes of all of the crypto-Christians, sprinklingeach house and its residents with holy water. This was a very old custom,older than Christianity itself, as the ancient Greeks also consideredSeptember 1st the first day of the new year.Another very moving custom was the quiet walk of a secret priest throughthe village streets to the house of a dying Christian. Under his clothes, he heldthe chalice with Holy Communion. If someone saw the priest and greetedhim, he would not answer, but continued on his way in silence. No one misunderstood.The priest’s silence always meant that he was visiting the dying.1617

FAITH UNSEENCrypto-Christian BaptismsFor baptisms, family members, godparents, and perhaps a few others gatheredat the child’s house. Babies were usually baptized after forty days,unless a close member of the family had recently died, then the baptism washeld only after the first year memorial service for the departed. The childwas then given his Christian name, although he also had a “Muslim” nameto use in public. Children of crypto-Christians who were not old enough tokeep the community’s secret were not present at any of the sacraments; onlywhen they grew old enough to be trusted, could they attend and be catechized.As was traditional throughout Greece and Asia Minor, the mother ofthe child was never present at the baptism (signifying that the childbelonged to God), but waited in another room or even in another house. Thegodfather rarely knew the whole creed, but only said, “I believe in One God,Jesus Christ…,” yet he meant it deeply. When the baptism finished, a childran to where the mother was staying, congratulated her and announced thechild’s baptismal name, which had been given by the godfather or godmother.There was often a race among the village children to reach themother first, as the one who did so received a present which the mother hadespecially prepared for his coming.Even during my childhood here in Greece, most of the baptisms were doneat home because of the lack of heat. The mother waited in her room, and assoon as the name was pronounced, all of us young ones went running to bethe first to tell.Kromnean Betrothals and MarriagesIn those years, Christians and Muslims all married early, the girls as youngas twelve to fourteen. By sixteen, they were in danger of spinsterhood, andafter twenty, there would be no more offers. The boys also married young,although most were older than their brides.All weddings took place between January until Great Lent, and afterDormition until the Christmas Fast. As is usual in Orthodoxy, there were noweddings during the four great fasts, nor, by local tradition, in May or inleap years. Kromnean folk custom considered leap years to be ill-omened, abreak in the normal cycle, and May was the month in which donkeys werebred; Christians waited for a more suitable time to celebrate the sacramentwith dignity.19

Road to Emmaus Vol. VIII, No. 4 (#31)FAITH UNSEENThere were several steps to arranging a marriage in Kromni. The first wasthe Aaeman, the “Finding,” when a young man’s parents looked for theright girl, or rather, for the right family from which they wished to take abride. Once the prospective bride was found, the family sent the localmatchmakers, who were expert in these affairs, to the family of the girl witha Psalapheman (the Proposal or Request). If the girl’s parents were in favorof the match, then negotiations for the dowry would proceed. If they wereunfavorably disposed to the proposal, the boy’s parents would almostalways abandon their suit immediately to save face. If there was a verystrong reason to acquire this particular girl as a bride, she could be abducted(the Syrsimo), and then the marriage would have to take place, but thiswas rare. The dowry was usually money, land, or household gifts given tothe groom’s family by the family of the bride, as the bride would go to livewith her husband’s parents. (The Turks did the opposite, where the dowrywas “paid” by the groom’s family to the bride’s father, depending on hersocial status and accomplishments.)There were rare cases when a young man fell in love with a girl whom hemanaged to see with her face uncovered, usually at the spring where thegirls drew water. Seeing her unveiled demanded a proposal. Because of thestrict social traditions, if the young man’s parents were against the match,the following happened: respected older village women took the girl to visitthe groom’s house. After some time they left, leaving the girl there, and said,I níphe ekatsen ka (“The bride has sat there”). This was an extreme attemptto change the mind of the groom’s parents, and there was not a single caseof parents-in-law sending away a bride who had “sat” in their house. Itwould have been considered a great sin, completely socially unacceptable,and might even have been dangerous if their son decided to do somethingrash because he couldn’t live without this girl. When the níphe ekatsen ka,the wedding soon followed.After the girl’s parents accepted the proposal, the Soumademan 7(Betrothal or Engagement) followed. The Soumademan always took placeat night in the girl’s house. The young man, the parents of both couples, perhapsa few other relatives, and the priest gathered together – everyoneexcept the bride, who waited in another room. The young man, his parents,and the priest took the gold or silver rings (depending on the prosperity ofthe family) and said three times: “In the name of God and with the blessing7 Soumademan: from a Pontian Greek word used by foresters to mark trees they had selected to harvest.of the parents, we have come to engage (the groom’s name) with (the bride’sname), what do you say?” The groom responded, “Let it happen with theblessing of the God and by the wish of the parents.” The girl’s relatives thenwent with the priest to the girl, so that the priest could hear her answer aswell. The girl’s response was, “As my parents wish,” and she kissed thepriest’s hand. The priest blessed her and, rejoining the groom’s family, “gavethem” the bride, wishing them ogourlia and gatemlia (good fortune andhappiness) according to God’s Will. The family then gave the wrapped weddingrings to the priest, who blessed them and finished the betrothal servicevested in his epitrachelion. In those years, the betrothal or engagement wasdone separately, not as part of the wedding service as it is in our time.During the period of engagement, the groom never met the bride on hisown. He rarely visited her home, but when he did, he was accompanied byhis family. It was considered a shame for him to come on his own. About thisperiod there is a Turkish saying: Eniste tatli tatli gel, “the groom comessweetly,” (that is, hardly at all). Visits were much more common betweenthe parents of the betrothed than the couple themselves.The wedding, called the Stephanoma (the Crowning) was the most sacredmoment. Preparations for the wedding lasted several days and were a time ofgreat joy. The groom underwent a ceremonial shaving, and in his yard theydecorated a goat, which would escort his friends and relatives to the wedding.The bridal bath always took place on a Saturday, as marriages were only heldon Sunday. After the bath, the bride was enclosed in the bridal room (the basoda), where the following day she was dressed in her wedding finery, includingthe pink zoupouna, a close-fitting sleeveless jacket, like a jerkin.The Crowning was performed by the priest, together with the koumbaros,the best man. In our days, after the reading of the Epistle and the Gospel,the priest offers a cup of blessed (but unconsecrated) wine for the couple todrink from. In those years, the crypto-Christian priest offered meligalainstead of wine, milk mixed with honey, which the priest mixed and blessedon the spot saying three times: “change this to that.” Those looking on wouldchant, “I will receive from this redeeming cup and I will call on the name ofthe Lord.” After the bride and groom drank from the common cup, the cupwas broken underfoot by the priest.As the couple circled the analogion with the icons and Gospel during the“Dance of Isaiah,” the priest held the hand of the best man, the koumbarosheld the hand of the négamon (groom) and the négamon held the hand of2021

St. Gregory of Nyssa Church, 1930, Trabzon.

Road to Emmaus Vol. VIII, No. 4 (#31)FAITH UNSEENthe négamsa (bride). If there was a koumbara (bridesmaid), she held thebride’s free hand, and in that order they circled the analogion, while theguests scattered a mixture of candy, raisins, nuts and small coins calledkorkorta over the newlyweds. At each corner of the analogion they stopped,and the couple kissed the corresponding side of the Gospel.In those years the wedding crowns were not simple wreaths, but made inthe shape of a bishop’s mitre. When the ceremony ended, the priest took thecrowns and wrapped them in a special cloth, reciting wishes for the newlyweddedcouple’s health and welfare. The bride’s face was covered by a veilthroughout the wedding, and only when the priest finished wrapping thecrowns did he lift the veil of the bride. This was called the Apokamároman(the Unveiling), and was often the first time that members of the groom’sfamily (and sometimes even the groom himself) saw the bride.After the unveiling came the Chárisma (the Giving). With wishes for ahappy life, the relatives of the groom gave presents to the bride, after whichlocal musicians played traditional wedding music on folk instruments whilethe couple danced the Omal.The Charisma was followed by the Thymisma (the Remembering), inwhich the dancers held lit candles, bound together on a single wreath, andaccompanied by the musicians, danced in slow rhythmic steps to a song ofbenediction, beginning in Greek with the letter A and ending with .Father Nicholas (Papa Nikolas) Economides, whom I served with fortwelve years in the altar of the Church of the Transfiguration(Metamorphisi) in Thessalonica, told me much of the customs of Kromni,including this wedding poem.It began when the Lord our God blessed the first honorable marriagein the town of Cana.It comes to me to say to the newlyweds: “Above all, may yourmarriage be worthy and honorable.”You come of a noble and greatly honored lineage, and by God theCreator are you blessed.My Christ, endow me with strength, give me good heart, since I havebegun as a stranger, to finish all.So it must be, since I began, to bring all to completion: “Oh Lord, keepsafe these newlyweds.”They became a couple by the wishes of the parents, as God prescribedand as is written in the law.The Virgin in heaven rejoices with the angels: “May this marriage beblessed,” she says.As God has granted us abundant grace, “Lord God protect thesenewlyweds.”Let the priests put on their stoles, while we who are present cry,“Kyrie Eleison.”Lord God, protect these newlyweds. Give them peace and life, childbearingand children.With luminous voices raise these hymns to the Lord, “Oh, Almighty,guard these newlyweds.”A paradox and a mystery for humankind: A stranger meets strangerwith the blessing of the parents.Let them grow, rejoice, and bring forth children, thanking both Godand man.Strangers who find yourself here, relatives and neighbors, bestow yourwishes on them.Together, we all offer hymns to Christ, “Our Lord, protect thesenewlyweds.”Graceful bride, honor your in-laws, and you, the groom, take care withher for their blessing.All ask God for strength and health, for the blessing and joy ofchildren.Today there is joy in heaven and on earth; all blessing has come downupon this house.What has God made us worthy of? What miracle is this? A strangermeets a stranger and becomes his own.O Brothers, who are strangers here, do not stand by unmoved,bless and wish for these newlyweds.2425

FAITH UNSEENO Bride, keep your husband’s bed worthily with him, so that you maylive and prosper with everyone’s blessing.May you rejoice and be delighted, may you live like royalty and receiveParadise, that we all may rejoice.My soul, look upon such a well-armed daughter, and by God theCreator, as much begraced.Oh Virgin Mary, Mother of our Saviour, bless your servants and do notreject them.MasMas (Silence) was the duty of the bride, and she had to keep it for one or twoyears, sometimes for her whole life. This meant that the bride was notallowed to speak in the presence of her mother- and father-in-law. Whenthey asked her a question, she could only answer with nods and signs. Thiscustom was very strict and in our days it might seem barbarous, but in asociety in which many people lived under the same roof, it was a way toavoid the quarrels and upsets that might be caused by a newly-arrived bride.Mas accustomed a bride to respect her in-laws and would only end whenthey gave her permission to speak.Because of their outward Muslim appearance, there were some wealthycrypto-Christians with more than one house and more than one wife andfamily. Even so, the Church did not react, so as not to force them to becomeMuslim, and often both of their families continued as secret Christians.There was only one known case in Kromni; the case of Uzun Memetoglu.Uzun Memetoglu and His Two WivesUzun Memetoglu was a wealthy crypto-Christian with many people underhim, but was nevertheless just and generous. He and his wife had six children:Yiannis, Polychronos, Papastathios, Isaak, Abraham, and Agapi. In1835, an Ottoman hodja who respected him very much, offered his daughteras a second wife. Memetoglu was forced to accept her as the girl wasbrought to his home when he was away in Trebizond, and sending her backwas inconceivable once she had “sat there.” Refusing to father her childrenwould also have been very dangerous for the crypto-Christian community if27

Road to Emmaus Vol. VIII, No. 4 (#31)FAITH UNSEENshe had complained to her relatives, so he created a second home and hada son, Husein, and a daughter, Aise, by the hodja’s daughter. His wife neverrealized that he was a crypto-Christian, nor did Memetoglu try to converther to Christianity, fearing that she might tell her Muslim cleric father. Theylived like this until the official revelation of the crypto-Christians. WhenMemetoglu revealed his Christianity, the Turkish girl could not bear thethought of becoming a Christian and went back to her father, taking thechildren with her. Fifteen days later, the children returned to Memetogluand became Christian.The number of people in Kromni related by marriage or through a spiritualrelationship was remarkable. Every baptism gave the child’s parents adozen new relatives from the godparents’ families. This spiritual kinship wasconsidered sacred and was added to exponentially when the same godparentstood as godparent to another child. With weddings, also, one made an“army” of relations by marriage, not to mention the families of one’s koumbarosand koumbara (best man and bridesmaid). In the crypto-Christiancommunity, all of this was managed discretely and with such order that it is awonder how so many people managed to conceal such a great secret for over200 years, taking into account human weakness, jealousy, and the reprisalsthat are part of everyday life. The fact that so many thousands of peopleguarded this secret as the apple of their eye, in the fear of God, is astonishing.The crypto-Christians made up various ruses and pretexts to avoidmatch-making Ottomans who might ask for their daughters. Even one girlgiven to an Ottoman family was considered a tragedy, as the girl thenbelonged to the family of the groom and would become a Turkish Muslim.On the other hand, the crypto-Christians never rejected an Ottoman bridefor their sons. In cases where the matchmakers brought an Ottoman brideinto the house of a crypto-Christian family, the girl would be isolated by thebridegroom’s sisters and her mother-in-law, and not allowed to share herhusband’s bed until she was catechized and had agreed to become aChristian. Only after her baptism could she be married in a Christian serviceand come together with her husband.Traditionally, girls only returned to visit their parents after a year of marriage,and there were virtually no cases of Ottoman brides betraying thesecret to their parents. Compared to her Muslim home, the new Christianfamily was usually less strict and the girl would keep quiet about the newfamily’s Christianity out of love for her husband and respect (or fear) of herparents-in-law. Also, she knew the penalty of conversion: her husband’sfamily would be arrested and executed, and she would be a social outcast,humiliated for the rest of her life.In only one case did an Ottoman girl married to a Kromnean reveal thesecret. Aziz Agha, the son of Mourteze Effendi, married a Muslim bride fromKeleverik of Ispir, near Kars. After she was catechized, Aziz Agha took her tothe Monastery of Panagia Soumela to be baptized, where she was christenedSophia. After some time, Sophia visited her family and was foolish enoughto tell her parents everything that had happened. The case was taken toArgyroupoli, and the Christian family was saved only by the testimony of anold Armenian woman named Afitap, who claimed that Mourteze Effendiwas such a pious Muslim that he had forced her to become Muslim. With heraccusation a very different picture appeared: that of a Muslim so faithfulthat he had forced an Armenian to become Muslim herself. It was a lie, ofcourse, and it was also likely that Mourteze Effendi’s family bribed theOttoman judges, who finally ruled that this was a family squabble and outsideof their jurisdiction. The secret of the crypto-Christians was saved.However, the Islamic clergy must have suspected something because duringRamadan they sent a high-ranking muezzin to guide the Kromneans on howto keep the fast and say their prayers. To protect themselves from suspicion,the Kromneans decided to build a mosque, which was finished in 1815.Mullah Molasleyman’s DaughterDuring his years as priest, Mullah Molasleyman baptized an army of childrenand performed an uncountable number of weddings. He served as apriest for over sixty years and was present at any argument betweenOttomans and Christians, calming the one with the Koran and the otherwith the Gospel. He was loved and respected by all.One of his greatest trials, however, was his own daughter, Gülbahar.Truly, he lived through an adventure with her. Gülbahar was born inVarenou in 1784, baptized with the name Maria, and died in Trebizond in1864. At the time of this story she was twelve years old.Throughout his life, Mullah Molasleyman had had an Ottoman friend,Said Agha, a very good and wealthy man from Loria of Kromni, who deeplyloved and respected the mullah. Each time the mullah went to Loria, hestayed at Said Agha’s house, and after dinner, the agha would listen as he2829

Panagia Soumela Monastery, where many Pontic crypto-Christians secretly wed.

Road to Emmaus Vol. VIII, No. 4 (#31)FAITH UNSEENread the words of the Prophet from the Koran. When the namaz (prayer)was finished, Said Agha would ask for an explanation of the scriptures,which the mullah gave in Pontian because Said Agha did not speak Turkish.His grandfather’s grandfather had come to Kromni and put down roots, andnow they were Greek-speaking Kromneans.Likewise, when Said Agha came to Varenou he was a guest of the mullah,but in either case, eating with a Muslim presented a problem, for how couldthe priest eat without praying, or at least making the sign of the Cross over hisfood? Mullah Molasleyman, however, had devised his own solution. Beforebeginning he would say: “My head will think, my stomach will eat, my rightand left side will be satisfied,” and, as he spoke, he made the sign of the Cross.At the end of the meal he would again cross himself saying, Yedim basim icin,kizdim kanim icin, hem saga, hem sola, hem nihahyet canima. “My head ate,it reached my stomach, my right and left side, and also my soul.”In February 1796, Said Agha came to Varenou and, as usual, visited hisfriend the mullah, planning to ride back to Loria in the evening. A suddensnow-storm arose, however, and the mullah could not allow his friend toleave in such bad weather. Said Agha would, of course, stay the night.The timing, however, was deplorable. The mullah loved Said Agha andrespected him as a fair and God-fearing man, but how unfortunate that hehad to stay in the middle of Great Lent! He was obliged to honour Said Aghain the same way that the mullah was hosted in Loria, but what food couldhe offer him? His household kept the fast with great austerity and no deviationcould be justified. Nevertheless, they cooked for Said Agha, and thepans that had been thoroughly cleaned on Clean Monday for the fast werespoiled by cooking non-Lenten food. Fortunately, the guest would dinealone with the mullah, for in an “Ottoman” household, other family members,particularly women, had no place at the table with male guests. Themullah pretended that he had a stomach ache and only drank tea.When guests arrived, only the older women were allowed to appear withtheir faces veiled. The children remained in another room, unseen. Despitethese injunctions, twelve year-old Gülbahar could not help glancing in asshe passed the door, and Said Ahgha, noticing her poised, statuesque air,reflected on what a wonderful bride she would be for his 18 year-old son,Husein. A beautiful girl, and her father the mullah, a dear friend. In themorning, when the weather cleared, he left for Loria.At the end of April, as the snow began to melt, Said Agha sent his men onhorseback for an old and respected matchmaker, Fatme of Mohore, who hadarranged many of the Kromnean marriages. (She was also a crypto-Christian,baptized with the name Paresa.) When she arrived with the agha’s escort,Fatme was welcomed with great honor. Used to such receptions, she wasnonetheless curious as to what match this was leading to, and when she understoodthat Said Agha wanted the mullah’s daughter as a bride for his son, shewas horrified. It was impossible for Mullah Molasleyman to give his daughterto an Ottoman. “His daughter is young,” Fatme protested. “It does not matter,”said the Agha. “She is twelve years old. We can have the betrothal now and thewedding in one or two years.” Forced to agree so as not to arouse suspicion, thedistressed matchmaker could only think of one thing to gain time, “Said Agha,I will not be able to go to the mullah right away because my mother-in-law isdying, but I will go when I can and will bring you the answer.” Said Agha filledher bags with gifts and money, and his men escorted her home.When she arrived home, Fatme slipped off the horse, dismissed SaidAgha’s men and prepared to leave immediately for Varenou. Her son said,“Mother, you’ve just come and now you are going again?” “It’s big trouble,my son,” said Fatme, as she rode away.In Varenou she went straight to the mullah’s house where she was welcomedby his wife and daughters, excited at the prospect of a marriage offer.The mullah was not at home and Fatme told them to run and bring himquickly. When the mullah arrived, she exclaimed: “Father, a great calamityhas come upon our heads! How did you let that dog, Said Agha, see yourGülbahar? He has asked me to mediate so that she will marry his son. Icouldn’t tell him it was impossible, all I could do was to lie to gain a littletime. I told him that my mother-in-law was dying.” “You did very well,” saidMullah Molasleyman. “Go back to Mohore and I will find a solution.”That night, Mullah Molasleyman could not sleep. He loved and respectedthe agha. He could not give him his daughter, yet how would he justify hisdenial without offending his friend? By dawn he knew. It was an unorthodoxsolution, but a saving one.After drinking his morning coffee, the mullah told his wife to send one oftheir boys to find Murat Yiazitsi Zade, a distant relative and poor farmerwith many children, to whom Mullah Molasleyman had always extendedtimely help. The snow had already melted and Murat, in the fields sincedawn, arrived embarrassed and dirty from his work. The mullah, however,welcomed him warmly and led him upstairs. He explained his dilemma and3233

FAITH UNSEENsaid, “What I am telling you is a shame for me, but this shame is nothingcompared to the sin of my daughter becoming a Turk. Nevertheless, we arerelatives, and if you do not agree to my proposal, everything we say willremain only between us. “Curious and embarrassed, Murat wondered howhe, poor and illiterate, could be of assistance to the mullah and priest.The Mullah said, “Murat, you have a son named Tursun, the one we baptizedas Kyriakos. Will you take my daughter Maria as a bride for Kyriakos? Theextraordinary offer struck Murat like a thunderclap, but the mullah continued,“I know that grooms propose to brides and not brides to grooms, but in the faceof such danger to my daughter, I don’t believe this deviation is wrong.”Murat was astonished at being asked to accept the mullah’s daughter intohis house, and with joy replied, “What shame are you talking about, Father? Itis a great honour for us to accept your daughter as our bride.” “Since youagree,” the mullah said, “come and make the offer, and on Sunday we will havethe Soumadema (the Betrothal). No one must ever know what we have talkedabout today.” The same evening Murat and his wife visited the mullah’s familyand asked for Gülbahar. This is how the match-making of Gülbahar (Maria)and Tursun (Kyriakos) Yazitzi Zade came about in April of 1796.Fatme sent the news of the engagement to Said Agha, that unfortunatelysomeone else had asked for Gülbahar first. The agha was sad, but what couldhe do? He blamed himself for not having arranged the matter earlier.Tursun and Gülbahar married in Varenou when he was seventeen, and she,thirteen. They had many children, one of whom was Hadjimurat YiazitziZade, born in 1807, who later became a merchant. (Their Greek family nameafterwards was Grammatikopolous, but they went by the Turkish familyname, Tursunand.) Hadjimurat married Sophia Koukou in Tapezounta, andone of their many children was Tursun (Kyriakos) Yiazitzi Zade (named afterhis grandfather), who was born in 1844, and was 13 years old at the time ofthe Hatti Humayun, which guaranteed Turkish citizens freedom of religion.Kyriakos married Maria Ephtichidou, with whom he had three boys and fourgirls. One of the girls was my grandmother Aphrodite.Folk Beliefs: Comets and HortlaksOn August 16, 1769, a seeming catastrophe rocked the quiet life of thePontians. A comet appeared, and all that month blazing clouds appearedacross the sky. The simple villagers, no matter what religion, were deeply35

Road to Emmaus Vol. VIII, No. 4 (#31)FAITH UNSEENshaken. Daily life was disrupted and rumors and theories were rife.Everyone, though, agreed that this was a sign from God, and not a good one.Metropolitan Dionysios (Kazanos) of Chaldia (1757-1783), a well-educatedman, managed to calm his flock with a short and simple treatise explainingthe natural phenomenon, which was distributed to all the churches of hisdiocese, and then throughout Pontus. Impressed that the Christian populationhad ceased to be troubled, the Turkish authorites asked that the treatisebe translated and read in all the villages and town squares. The Muslimsalso were pacified, and life went back to normal.Another tradition of the area was the Hortlak, which means “ghost.” Thepeople of Kromni believed that anyone who died without paying his debtscould not rest in peace, and at night would arise from the grave, crying andshouting, until his family paid what he owed. After the debts were settled,the priest would do a small service or read prayers over the grave.Hearing these stories from Aphrodite, it seemed peculiar to me that themost common Hortlak were Ottomans, and at night everyone could heartheir deceased Turkish neighbor shouting as a Hortlak. The Ottoman relativeslistened to these stories and after some time they themselves beganhearing the voice of their dead, after which they quickly settled the debts. Ibelieve that this was a clever trick of the Christians to make the Turks repaytheir debts, but when I asked Aphrodite, she emphatically answered in thenegative. She insisted that the Hortlak existed and they could be eitherChristian or Turk. Christians, also, who left unsettled debts to eitherChristians or Turks could not rest until they were settled. It was divine justicedemanding recompense, she believed, not a trick.Another peculiarity was that even the Turkish Muslim families took anOrthodox priest with them to the Muslim cemeteries for a short prayer serviceover the grave after the debts were paid. Pontians believed these storiesand if an Ottoman consulted his Muslim mullah about it, he was assuredthat the Hortlak really did exist. People not only heard, but saw them, andfor this reason no one ventured out after dark without good reason. And noone ever went near a cemetery at night.Crypto-Christian Burial PracticesThere was also, for us, the humorous and long-standing belief of theTurkish Muslims in the surrounding areas that the air of Kromni was verygood because no one ever died there! This was because the crypto-Christiansheld their funerals after dark in their house chapels. In the countryside, peoplehad (and still have) the legal right to bury the dead on their own property,so in Kromni, the crypto-Christians were buried with Orthodox rites intheir own gardens. Muslim outsiders never saw the burial services.In larger towns or cities, however, this wasn’t allowed, so they had to burythe supposed Muslims in the Muslim graveyard. In the Muslim communitywere specialists who prepared the body for burial, and it would have beensuspicious if a family did not call them or refused to follow Muslim burialpractices. As part of the burial service, Muslims wash their dead in extremelyhot water, hotter than anyone living could bear.This presented a problem for crypto-Christian men because of the traditionamong Muslims of circumcising their young boys. 8 Muslim attendants preparingthe body of an uncircumcised crypto-Christian man for burial wouldimmediately understand that this man had been a Christian. Instead, the crypto-Christiansin the cities often used an alternative Muslim funeral customcalled aptest, when, immediately after death, they sewed the body into a whiteshroud which was not opened again. Instead of a funeral casket, there was awooden bier. The dead person was placed upon the bier and taken to the porchof the mosque, where he was positioned with only his feet in the entryway –his head pointed outwards. They recited the prayers and verses from theKoran and then buried the shrouded body directly in the earth.Kromni’s Churches RestoredAlthough, as I mentioned, the first mosque was erected in Kromni in 1815,the first church was only built sixteen years later by professed Christianswho had begun moving to the area in the 1700s to work in the mines. Thischurch came about during the reign of Sultan Mahmud Han II (1808-1839),who decreed that ruined Christian churches might be restored. As theremains of a 13th-century church could still be seen in the Kromnean villageof Samanandon, the crypto-Christians encouraged the professed Christiansto petition the Sultan to allow them to rebuild.The Sultan sent his approval in a firman (decree) in 1830, stating that,“those who petitioned and begged for the restoration of the ruined church at8 Crypto-Christian men were not always uncircumcised. In communities where it was impossible to escapethe scrutiny of Muslim neighbors, a male crypto-Christian child would be secretly baptized and chrismated,and at the proper age also undergo Muslim circumcision, so as not to arouse suspicion.3637

Greek hunting party with visiting Russian guest, c. 1910.

Road to Emmaus Vol. VIII, No. 4 (#31)FAITH UNSEENSiamanli (Samanandon) diocese… after examination and inspection byofficials of my office, this truth has been proven and established thatthe dimensions of the church are twenty-seven by thirteen…. In answerto whether it is possible to allow for its restoration, the answer is yes,but without the right to exceed even an [inch] of the initial limits of thebuilding, and to restore it without receiving one [penny] or grain of wheatas compensation.” 9The Church of St. George was finished and dedicated in 1831. The crypto-Christians could admire it, but none could go inside; such a deed wouldhave jeopardized their secret.As the century progressed and the laws were further relaxed, the professedChristians of Kromni built more new churches, each time at the instigationand support of the crypto-Christians, who aided them by minimizingOttoman reaction. In this way, by the end of the century, every hill andmountain peak had its Christian church. It was as if our centuries-oldunderground crypto-Christian chapels had taken root, germinated, andsprouted forth on the surface of the earth.The Greek RevolutionDuring the reign of Sultan Mahmut B (1808-1839), the first of several great“earthquakes” occurred in the lives of the crypto-Christians. The first wasthe news in March of 1821 that the Greeks of the Peloponnese, led byMetropolitan Germanos of Patras and joined by others on the Greek mainland,had risen in revolt against Ottoman rule. When the news reached theSublime Port, and the sleeping Sultan was awakened with the news, heallegedly rolled on the floor screaming in rage, “Rum ismi ile kulum yoktur,kesin kafalarini.” “I do not recognize any Greek subjects, off with theirheads.” The first Greek executed in retaliation was Patriarch Gregory V ofConstantinople, who was held responsible for the uprising and hung fromthe middle gate of the courtyard of the Patriarchate of Constantinople. Inmemory of his tragic death, this gate has remained closed until now.Another twelve hierarchs lost their lives for the same reason.When the Ottomans of Asia Minor heard of the Greek insurrection, therewas a fierce backlash and Trebizond’s governor, Hesref Pasha, gathered the9 The original firman is quoted in full in the original Greek version, and in English in Andreadis, Georgios,The Crypto-Christians, Kyriakidis Brothers, Thessalonica, 1995, pp. 61-2, (privately printed in Greece).city’s professed Christians into the Ottoman citadel, the Leontokastro,intending to execute them. They were saved only through the efforts of theOttoman Muslim military commander, Pasha Satir Zade, who warded offthe unjust slaughter. Although the news of the Peloponnese revolt was welcomedin the crypto-Christian community, the initial joy was overshadowedby the death of the patriarch, and Kromni’s crypto-Christians worked quicklyto counter attempts to fanaticize Kromni’s Muslim neighbors against theprofessed Christians.The second great upheaval was the Russian-Turkish war of 1828, whenthe Russians conquered Kars and Ezerum in the East, occupying territory allthe way to Trebizond and Argyroupoli. The metropolitans of Trebizond andChaldia advised their crypto-Christian flock to wait, and MullahMolasleyman himself went from house to house through the villages ofKromni, warning the crypto-Christians not to reveal themselves. Yet quite anumber did not heed his advice, and assuming that the Russians were thereto stay, openly proclaimed themselves Christian.When the war ended a year later, by the terms of settlement, the Russiantroops left Pontus. They were followed to southern Russia by more than twothousand of these newly-revealed Christian families, now liable to Islamicpenalties for apostasy.The Hatti Sherif of Gulhane andthe Death of Mullah MolasleymanUpon ascending the throne in 1839, Sultan Abdul Medjit I signed a decree,the Hatti Sherif, formulated by his Foreign Minister and Grand Vizier,Reshid Pasha, that Ottoman Christian subjects were now free to practicetheir faith and to build new churches, schools, and other foundations. It isnot known if this was initiated in order to follow in the relatively tolerantfootsteps of Mehmet the Conqueror, or whether he simply wanted theOttoman Empire to appear more civilized in the eyes of the West. In eithercase, the proclamation was jubilantly welcomed and new churches wereraised in every Christian neighborhood.Again, the Church authorities counseled the crypto-Christians to wait andnot reveal themselves. This decree concerned only the freedom of the professedChristians; nowhere did it say that Muslims could abandon their faithand follow another religion. In theory, the traditional edict of Malik Ibn4041

FAITH UNSEENAnas of 795 AD still held: Mohammed the Prophet had decreed that apostasyfrom Islam was punishable by death.The uncertainty lasted for five years, the hierarchs justifiably uneasy overthe arrest and imprisonment of several Armenian crypto-Christians residentin Turkey, who had openly declared their religion at the time of thedecree. This also occurred in Trebizond, where, in 1843, an ArmenianChristian still awaited trial.In Kromni and other crypto-Christian areas, however, the mullah-priestswere under pressure to clarify the situation. Kromni was now filled withbeautiful churches built by the professed Christians but the crypto-Christianscould not visit them, and reluctantly continued to pray in their undergroundchapels. In 1843, the Kromneans insisted that Mullah Molasleyman, now 83years old, but still active, in good health, and the acknowledged spokesmanfor the crypto-Christians of Kromni, go to Trebizond to meet secretly withMetropolitan Konstantinos III to discuss the matter.At this time the governor of Trebizond was another Osman Pasha (1839-1843) – not the one who had saved the Christians in 1921. MullahMolasleyman arrived in the city around Pentecost, staying with his brotherin the Trebizondan neighborhood of Molos. The metropolitan was notifiedof his arrival, and at their meeting the mullah explained that the crypto-Christians were becoming impatient, and he could not answer for theirsecrecy much longer. The metropolitan and the mullah agreed to wait forthe verdict in the approaching trial of the Armenian; in any case, theKromneans would do nothing until the mullah’s return. On Pentecost, themullah served liturgy in the secret chapel of the house in Molos, attended bythe families of his two brothers and crypto-Christian relatives fromTrebizond. He gave them Holy Communion and advised everyone to go tosleep early, because, according to custom, on the following day, the Mondayof the Holy Spirit, it was forbidden to sleep the entire day in honor of thedescent of the Holy Spirit.On Monday morning, the mullah, who intended to serve liturgy at thehome of his other brother in Kemerkaya, was awakened, as was the rest ofTrebizond, by town criers calling out the news that the poor Armenian hadbeen condemned to death the night before. Osman Pasha, it was said, hadtried to forestall the verdict, but was pressured (or blackmailed) by theMufti members of the Islamic court, and had finally yielded. At dawn, on theFeast of the Holy Spirit, the Armenian was hung.Pontic embroidery of Resurrection, 1910.43

Road to Emmaus Vol. VIII, No. 4 (#31)FAITH UNSEENAfter years of expectation, the tragic conclusion of the trial and the collapseof all their hopes was more than Mullah Molasleyman could bear.Crying “Water, water!” he dropped to the floor dead. He died without seeingthe fulfillment of his life’s dream – to serve openly in a church beforeGod and man.The metropolitan, who was immediately notified, sent a priest to performthe Christian funeral in the home of the mullah’s brother in Kemerkaya, inthe presence of his relatives. Meanwhile, the public “Muslim” funeral wasbeing prepared in Molos, with the hot water bath administered by thoseespecially appointed in the Muslim community. Because he was publiclyknown as a Muslim mullah, they held the Muslim service in the mosque,which was attended by many Muslims and officiated over by a mullah. Hewas buried in the Muslim cemetery.With the news of the Armenian’s hanging and the sudden death of MullahMolasleyman, the Christian community froze. Even the enthusiasts nolonger spoke of revealing themselves. Late in the same summer, OsmanPasha himself reposed, and it was generally believed that his signature condemningthe Armenian was too heavy for his soul and had killed him. Withthe Armenian’s death, Turkish extremism declined and even the Muslimcommunity began criticizing the lack of religious freedom.The crypto-Christians visited the Muslim cemetery for many years, quietlywhispering memorial services and praying at the graves of MullahMolasleyman and their other relatives. Later, after they revealed theirChristianity, this was no longer allowed, as the Muslims did not want themto pray Christian prayers over the graves of their “Muslim” ancestors.If you go to Turkey now, you may enter a Mohammedan cemetery even ifyou are not Muslim. At that time, however, if you were openly Christian (orlater, when it was safe for the crypto-Christians to reveal themselves) youwere not allowed to pray at the graves where your “Muslim” ancestors wereburied, or even to enter the cemetery. It happened, however, that some verypoor Trebizond families had built their houses onto the city wall overlookingthe cemetery because this saved them the expense of one wall. Mygrandmother Aphrodite remembers that one of these two-storey houseswas owned by an Armenian Christian widow and my grandmother’s familywould pay a little money to the widow to allow them to serve an Orthodoxmemorial service for Mullah Molasleyman through the window overlookinghis grave. These women, who came especially on the Saturday of All Souls,were in truth new myrhh-bearers, faithfully fulfilling their duties to God andtheir beloved dead.Unfortunately, this cemetery was destroyed by the Russian army in 1916when they occupied Turkish Trabzon and extended the medieval road runningthrough the city, so that the new neighborhoods outside could bereached directly without having to walk all the way around the city wall. Theold cemetery was covered by what is now Maras Street, from the mainsquare to the new gate.The Closing of the MinesAfter 1843, when new deposits of gold and silver were discovered in SouthAfrica, the price of gold fell to one-tenth of its former value on the internationalmarket. The Sultan was able to obtain these precious metals for less than thecost of mining the ore in Turkey, and the Kromni mines began to close. By 1854,many Kromneans had emigrated to Batum and other cities on the RussianBlack Sea Coast, where they could freely practice their Christianity. Others wentto work in the Armenian mines, in a village called Alahkverdi (“God gives”)where Greeks still reside today, while the majority who stayed changed theirlivelihood to producing and selling metal-work objects.Some of those who elected to stay within the Ottoman Empire left for othermines in Asia Minor – Cilicia and Ak Dag Magen, while other Kromneanschanged professions completely, and in Trebizond or surrounding villagesworked as builders, carpenters, shoe-makers, tailors, blacksmiths, bakers,coppersmiths, millers, and so on. Being crypto-Christian in the larger citieswas more dangerous, because of the greater chance of discovery.Faith Revealed: The Hatti HumayunUnder international pressure from Christian Europe, on February 17, 1856,seventeen years after authorizing the Hatti Sherif of Gulhane, Sultan AbdulMedjit I signed into effect the Hatti Humayun, an edict granting everyOttoman citizen freedom of religion and safeguarding the ability to changereligions. 10 However, he signed in complete ignorance of the great numberof crypto-Christians waiting to reveal their faith.10 Europe’s motives for exerting this pressure were only partially altruistic. By forcing the Sultan’s hand,they also sought to minimize Russian influence on the Christian minorities of Turkey with its offers of emigrationand resettlement.4445

Trebizond (Trabzon) city walls.

Road to Emmaus Vol. VIII, No. 4 (#31)FAITH UNSEENJudiciously cautious, as they needed to be, the Pontic crypto-Christianswere slow to declare their belief. The first was the “Muslim” doorkeeper ofthe Italian Consulate, Pehlil Tekiroglu. Basing his revelation on the HattiHumayun, he disclosed his Christianity to his chief, the Italian ConsulFabri, who initially did not believe him, but once convinced, encouragedPehlil to reveal his faith, pledging his support. Pehlil went to HairedinPasha, the governor of Trebizond, and subsequently appeared before a fullquorum of the Idare-i-Meclisi, the Muslim court, on May 14, 1856. Threetimes, Hairedin Pasha asked him what he believed, and each time Pehlilconfessed that he was baptized a Christian with the name Petros. Withoutany other formalities, Hairedin Pasha accepted him as a Christian with thename Petros Savva Sidiropolous. One such person probably seemed ananomaly, an opportunity to show widespread toleration. Little did HairedinPasha guess that this was the breech in the dike.At this time, Konstantinos III was still enthroned as the GreekMetropolitan of Trebizond, and in March 1857, a year after the revelation ofPetros Sidiropoulos, 150 crypto-Christian village leaders went to theMonastery of Theodkepastos in Trebizond and inside the church took anoath to reveal their Christianity and to remain faithful in the face of exile ordeath. They signed a written oath, gathered a collection, and appointed tworepresentatives, one of which was Petros Sidiropoulos and the otherDimitrios Voskopoulos, whose Muslim name was Suleyman. Sidiropoulosand Voskopoulos made the rounds of Constantinople’s European consulatespresenting their resolution. With only one exception, they found theconsuls deeply moved, accepting of the resolution, and promising to help.Their single rejection was by the English consul, A. Stevens, who saw themas liars and opportunists seeking to escape Turkish military service after theclosure of the mines, and declared as much in a report to the Britishembassy in Istanbul. 11The massive revelation fell like a bomb at the Ottoman Court, and thestate renamed the crypto-Christians, Tenesur Rum (Those Who Rejected).Initially, the Turks accepted this incident with irony. In Trebizond they hada saying about Uzun Sokak, the city’s large commercial street, Uzun Sokak11 In his 1857 report, Stevens quoted the current census figures of 55 villages in the Kromni District: 9,535Muslims, 17,260 newly revealed crypto-Christians, and 26,960 professed Christians. The Moslem figuresmay well include crypto-Christian villages and families who had not yet revealed their Christianity. A yearlater, Bishop Gervasios of Sebaste gives a figure of 25,000 revealed crypto-Christians throughout AsiaMinor. The final number would be much higher as revelations of crypto-Christian villages went on until1911. There are no figures for the many generations of crypto-Christians who preceded the Hatti Humayun.camur oldu, Krumillar giavur oldu. (“Uzan Sokak filled with mud, and theKromneans became infidels.”) After the revelation, the Turks called Kromni,Kücük Yunistan (Small Greece).Then the reaction began: Ottoman authorities began registering therevealed crypto-Christians under both their Muslim and Christian names,and, as the mines closed, called them up for conscription. Non-Muslims hadnever been allowed to serve in the Ottoman army, paying a special taxinstead, but if the former crypto-Christians were registered under theirMuslim names, and no longer exempt from conscription by their work in themines, they would be taking up arms against neighboring Christians, whileserving in a Muslim army that considered them traitors and apostates.Further, revealed crypto-Christian children were not allowed to inheritproperty, goods, or money that had belonged to their “Muslim” parents.To forestall these penalties, revealed crypto-Christian families begansending their young newly-married couples to southern Russia or Georgia toestablish their families in a free Christian state. Others later left for RussiancontrolledBatum and Kars, and by 1910 there were few former crypto-Christian families remaining in Pontus, although the number of professedChristians had actually increased.Stavrin, the last Kromnean crypto-Christian village to reveal itself, did notdo so until 1911, by which time Turkey had a constitutional government. Theangry Turkish authorities demanded, “Where have you been for so long?”and the revelation seemed on the verge of backfiring until, bowing toEuropean pressure, the Turkish National Assembly passed a resolutionaccepting the village as Christian.Now, I have a story to close this period. At the first wave of crypto-Christian revelations, Ottoman administrative committees were set up inevery area where crypto-Christians had begun declaring themselves. Thecommittees were headed by a Turkish Muslim administrator representingthe Ottoman government, a policeman, and a representative of the GreekChurch. Each villager appeared in turn before his local committee, declaredhis faith, his real name, and was registered as a Christian.One such committee operated in Tzevisluk, 27 kilometers from Trebizond,where, on a certain day, crypto-Christians from the surrounding villages wereto come and register. Towards afternoon the lines had dwindled, and by nightfallthe last villager had been heard. “So, we are finished,” said the policeman,closing the book. “Let us wait a bit longer,” replied Mullah Vaizoglu, the4849

FAITH UNSEENOttoman administrator, “to be sure that there is no one else.” When some timehad passed and no one else came, the mullah himself stood and said: “Registerme as well. I am Georgios Kirittopoulos, the priest of Kapikioy.” Today thisman’s descendants live in Kavala and Kozani in northern Greece; their namecomes from the Greek word Kyrix, “the one who prays.”We cannot overestimate the importance of these mullah-priests, who outwardlyled their communities as devout Muslims, while keeping their secretChristian beliefs and traditions alive. Tonya and Of, the two originally crypto-ChristianGreek-speaking areas that did not have a line of secret priests,surrendered their Christianity for Islam long before the 1856 revelation. Inthe illiteracy and darkness of the times, only Christ through His priesthoodcould sustain the spirit and souls of these simple peasants and keep thefaith, like a bright flame, burning in their hearts.Part II of “The Crypto-Christians of Pontus” will appear in the Winter2008 (#32) issue of Road to Emmaus.Author George Andreadis may be contacted at:66 Rizuntos Street551 33 Kalamaria (Thessalonica) GreecePhone/Fax: 30-2310-411-465Mr. Andreadis speaks Greek, German, and English.Ruins of the great Trabzon monastery, Panagia Theoskepastos.51

Church of Hagia Sophia, Trabzon, now a museum.