s<strong>in</strong>ce September, my ideas have beenchang<strong>in</strong>g very quickly.DC Is th at how you typically workstart<strong>in</strong>gwith a general idea andchang<strong>in</strong>g as you go along?N D Yes , that's pretty consistent.Workers , the project I showed at theLiverpool Biennial [2008], changeseach time I show it <strong>in</strong> terms of thenumber of projections, and becauseI film workers from the city where thepiece is to be shown.DC How do you prepare?ND I do a great deal of research .For this project I've been read<strong>in</strong>gabout the development of Romanurbanism. Much has been writtenabout the re lationship between c<strong>in</strong>emaand architecture <strong>in</strong> Rome, andabout the failures of certa<strong>in</strong> hous<strong>in</strong>gprojects. Rome developed very differentlyfrom other cities-it didn'thave the <strong>in</strong>dustrialization of Milan orParis. But there were moments historicallywhen populations were pushedout, literally, <strong>in</strong> one big shove to theperiphery-for example <strong>in</strong> 1925, whenMussol<strong>in</strong>i demolished the medievaland Renaissance houses around theColosseum and the Forum . So theperiphery itself developed <strong>in</strong> a way differentfrom that of other cities.More and more I'm go<strong>in</strong>g back toPasol<strong>in</strong>i's journalism, too. In addition toa regular column <strong>in</strong> the Corriere dellaSera , he wrote editorials, essays andfilm reviews for other papers, <strong>in</strong>clud<strong>in</strong>gOffic<strong>in</strong>a , Vie nuove and many others,from the '50s through the '7Os . It'shard for us' to understand his importance<strong>in</strong> Italian culture because we'venever had a figure like that; he was soprophetic about the culture of globalismand consumerism. Sometimesyou can read his columns and, if youcrossed out specific names of neighborhoods,it could be someth<strong>in</strong>g youwould read today <strong>in</strong> the New YorkTimes. Now the tensions at the peripheryare different-it's more aboutissues of immigration and racism thanclass conflict.In terms of research , I'm also go<strong>in</strong>garound Rome to different neighborhoodsand <strong>in</strong>terview<strong>in</strong>g people. Themore I learn about the specific developmentand the politics of this situation,the more the issue of the Romacomes up. For example: Pasol<strong>in</strong>i shotAccattone [1961] <strong>in</strong> II Pigneto, a neighborhoodthat was a slum. Its historyis sort of like that of the East Village<strong>in</strong> terms of how it developed: it's acool place to live now, and much morediverse than the city's center-yousee African people and Ch<strong>in</strong>ese restaurants.The wife of Pasol<strong>in</strong>i's titlecharacter, Accattone, lived <strong>in</strong> II Pigneto,and it's exactly <strong>in</strong> that place that theRoma had a temporary encampmentfor a while <strong>in</strong> 2007. The issue of whatis happen<strong>in</strong>g with the Roma right nowis historically specific and complex,and the geography of the peripheryis very different and expanded, butmuch of what Pasol<strong>in</strong>i was concernedabout is relevant today <strong>in</strong> relation to theRoma community. Although my workIN THE STUDIOwill probably not address the Romaissue directly, it seems very importantto consider as I th<strong>in</strong>k about Rome'sdevelop<strong>in</strong>g periphery, Pasol<strong>in</strong>i 's methodof represent<strong>in</strong>g spaces of social subjectionand the city's failed attempts atrenewal and reform .DC What is your studio practice like atthe Academy?ND At this stage, I'm collect<strong>in</strong>g materialand experiment<strong>in</strong>g. At the beg<strong>in</strong>n<strong>in</strong>gof all my projects, I do a lot of notationalwork, shoot<strong>in</strong>g with a small digitalcamera, try<strong>in</strong>g different variations <strong>in</strong>Photoshop and After Effects. ThenI go back to a site and shoot with alarger format camera. At first it's justmapp<strong>in</strong>g out what I want to go backto. Everyth<strong>in</strong>g is on the computer rightnow. I didn't br<strong>in</strong>g a lot of equipmentbecause I wanted to be less reliant onall the stuff that I usually use.DC At what po<strong>in</strong>t does the f<strong>in</strong>al shapeof the work become clear-whether itwill have multiple projections, say, orbe a 15-m<strong>in</strong>ute film?ND It depends on the project, ofcourse. Some commissions are veryspecific about what they entail. TheDresden project I'm currently work<strong>in</strong>gon , for <strong>in</strong>stance, has to be a certa<strong>in</strong>length and a self-conta<strong>in</strong>ed projection.It 's <strong>in</strong>spired by Chuck Jones.DC Tell me more about that.ND The commission is for the newDresden Museum of Military History.My piece-which is still very much<strong>in</strong> progress, so some th<strong>in</strong>gs mightchange-will be based on one fictionalMAY'1O ART IN AMERICA 8 1
Above, Study (Dresdencommission), 2010.Courtesy the artist.Opposite top and bottom,stills from Workers (leav<strong>in</strong>g thefactory), 2007, multichannelvideo <strong>in</strong>stallation.character who is completely obsessedwith carry<strong>in</strong>g out a series of quasisituationist,quasi-UMTV's Jackass"schemes <strong>in</strong>spired by the classic ChuckJones Road Runner/ Wile E. Coyotecartoons. Like Jones's Coyote, mycharacter is luckless and <strong>in</strong>ept, andhis violence always bounces back tohimself- back to some self-<strong>in</strong>flictedchaos. But unlike the Jones cartoons,my proposed animations will have noRoad Runner. My coyote subject willoperate schizophrenically from bothsides. He will be stalk<strong>in</strong>g himself andmultiplied <strong>in</strong> every role. The backgroundfor his actions will be the verymuseum where it will be shown-an<strong>in</strong>credible build<strong>in</strong>g designed by DanielLibesk<strong>in</strong>d and currently under construction.So, the action <strong>in</strong> the piecewill be tak<strong>in</strong>g place <strong>in</strong> the Libesk<strong>in</strong>dbuild<strong>in</strong>g while it's be<strong>in</strong>g built.DC Shift<strong>in</strong>g gears from animation , canyou talk about your relationship withdocumentary film? Is that an associationyou resist?ND That's someth<strong>in</strong>g I th<strong>in</strong>k aboutall the time-creat<strong>in</strong>g someth<strong>in</strong>g thatcomes from a documentary traditionbut isn't concerned with conventionaldocumentary structure or style. I th<strong>in</strong>kabout ethics and power relationships.Very few of Pasol<strong>in</strong>i 's actors wereprofessionals, and he always shot onlocation, as opposed to Fell<strong>in</strong>i, whobuilt an entire section of the Via Venetoon the set. Pasol<strong>in</strong>i grew more andmore allegorical, so his realism refusednaturalism. I'm <strong>in</strong>terested <strong>in</strong> that aspectof his legacy. I'm certa<strong>in</strong>ly struggl<strong>in</strong>gwith ways to represent these nomadicpopulations without fall<strong>in</strong>g <strong>in</strong>to easilyconsumable cliches. Pasol<strong>in</strong>i'swork expressed the contradictions ofthe time. I keep hop<strong>in</strong>g that, <strong>in</strong> thatspirit. I can show the contradictions asopposed to a simple political viewpo<strong>in</strong>t.It's almost a cliche about political art: ifit embraces openness and ambiguity,then people tend to read <strong>in</strong>to it whatthey want. The art world sometimesf<strong>in</strong>ds my work too political but activistsdon't th<strong>in</strong>k it goes far enough.DC Does even call<strong>in</strong>g a work politicalchange the audience's expectations?ND I don't know.DC Do you consider yourself political?ND I wouldn't use that term. I've beenth<strong>in</strong>k<strong>in</strong>g about the territory betweenphotography and film, the impact ofdigital technolog'y on the temporalityof the photograph- that photographyis a medium <strong>in</strong> transformation and that82 ART IN AMERICA MAY'lO
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