GRENADE MAGAZINE

FREE GLOBAL PUNK / HARDCORE / FEATURE MAGAZINE!
GRENADE
TH' INBRED
BILLY ATWELL!
BILLY ATWELL!
THE FIFTH RAMONE !
WHATEVER HAPPENED TO
TOXIC REASONS
MAGAZINE
THE LEGEND BEHIND THE
DAVE
SMALLEY
D.Y.S / DAGNASTY / ALL / DOWN BY LAW
ANIMAL LIBERATION
FRONT!
THE LAST DAYS OF CRASS
WITH STEVE IGNORANT

WHO YOU GONNA SEE WHEN THE
80'S BAND CALL IT A DAY?
FREE TO DOWNLOAD ALBUMS OF GLOBAL PUNK AND HARDCORE BANDS
WWW. BANDCAMP. COM
THECHILDRENOFTHEREVOLUTION

GR EETINGS
ONE A ND A LL
So I was doing an interview for all this celebratory
'40 years of punk' as apparently at the age of 13, I was
the youngest to ever put a fanzine, 4 Minute War, out to
the masses! With the fanzine, various bands, tape and
record label and radio station, unknowingly I suppose I
have done my bit.
“Would I ever put a fanzine out again?” came one
of the questions. “Fuck no” came a pretty shape reply.
When the interviewer asked what would it take to
change my mind, I warmed to the question.
I would have to have my political hero, Ronnie Lee.
My favourite singer, Dagnasty's Dave Smalley and it
would have to look like a Sunday supplement rather
than 4MW of old. Never one to look back, it would have
to be a different animal than the early eighties model.
We moved on!
The idea manifested. I'd finished a run of
compilation albums and in the nights between gigs, with
Abandon Cause, I knew what was happening. I always
do! ...What if? ...I wonder? And there it was. Before I
knew it Dave and Ronnie was on board and with
thoughts on how I could stick dynamite under the idea
of 4 Minute War, Grenade was born.
This isn’t meant to be a masterpiece.
Just something you make you switch off the
T.V and remember what a great, unique
scene we are all involved in. Yes it's a
changed with the times but the
idealogical is the same, for me anyway.
Just enjoy it for what it is.
Come and say 'Hi' at Abandon
Cause gigs or via Facebook.
Will there be another....Fuck no!
...But I believe I may have said that before!
Much love.
Marky
Www facebook com / grenademagazine

“Walking along the corridor of the Shepherds Bush
Empire, about to preform Crass songs for the last time, I
remember all sorts of things. Mostly remembering how I
didn’t want to be there. For a start off there was my stage
fright which I always have suffered from. I didn’t know
where to put myself. I couldn’t eat. All I wanted to do was
drink myself into oblivion. It amazes me how everyone treats
performing like its everyday life. In the end I walked out of
the doors of the Empire and walked straight into the pub on
the corner. I was still sitting there when the Mrs. had to
come and get me! I was sitting there talking to all the Crass
fans that were suppose to be inside the gig. That put me far
more at ease. I do like the Empire but backstage its a maze
of corridors so I needed the pub instead. Funny enough, one
minute I’m chattering to people and then the next minute
I’m on stage shouting my lungs out.”
“...And trying not to cry!”

O N THE 19TH OF NOVEMBER 2011011.
AT THE SHEPERDS BUSH EMPIRE LONDON,
STEVE IGNORANT,, LONG TIME SINGER
FROM THE MOST INFLUENCAL
ANARCHIST BAND IN THE WORLD,,
VOWED NEVER PREFORM CRASS
SONGS AGAIN TO A PACKED CROWD..
LOOKING BACK,, GRENADE SPEAKS TO
STEVE ABOUT WHAT LED UP TO THE
DECISION,, PREFORMING THAT NIGHT,,
AND WHAT HAPPENED NEXT!!/.
LOOKING BACK AT THE FOOTAGE IVE
SEEN OF THE REHEARSALS BEFORE
THE TOUR, I DEFINATLY GOT THE
IMPRESSION THAT YOU WERENT
FULLY CONVINCED THIS WAS THE
RIGHT THING TO DO, TO STOP
PREFORMING CRASS SONGS AGAIN?
Yeah, there was always an element of doubt
from the feelings I had when I did the Feeding of
the 5000 shows in 2007. I got a lot of flak from that
from various people so the doubt was still there
from that, but for me, what other way can I tell
people that the next time you going to see me, I
wont be preforming 'owe us a living!' That’s why I
did but there will always be some sceptics out there.
But it was going to be the last time. I knew Pen and
Eve were going to preform but I didn’t know what
they were going to do, and that was making me
nervous because I know Pen and Eve can go really
bloody avant grade sometimes so thank Christ they
kept a lid on it! It was strange because I toured
M
America and Australia with it and it was all really
well received. People got it! It was the last time! Of
course there was the pressure that as it was the
last one, I had to make it the best one I've ever
done. I mean I look back at the DVD and think now
that I didn’t do that quite right and all that
perpetual bollocks you go through.
SO WHEN YOU MADE THAT CHOICE, DO
YOU REMEMBER HOW THAT CAME
ABOUT, WHERE YOU WERE OR WHAT
BUILT UP TO THAT?
It's funny because I have been thinking
about it for quite awhile. Every now and then,
people come up to me and ask if Crass will ever
reform. Mate, were all in our fifties, sixties and
seventies and there was no way it was going to
happen!
OF COURSE, WHEN YOU'RE FINALLY ON
STAGE AND CAROL STARTS TO SING
WITH YOU, EVERYONE SAW IT FINALLY
GOT TO YOU. WHAT WAS LIKE TO
WATCH BACK. WAS THAT THE BUILD UP
OF EMOTION FINALLY COMING TO THE
SURFACE?

It wasn’t just me getting emotional. There
was a lot of people there like the audience as
well. Of course they can hear the songs again on
vinyl or CD but where a lot of the emotion came
from was that for a lot of those people, what
Crass did was touch people very deeply somehow
and its been with them for most of their lives, so
for a lot of them to talk to me or actually see
those songs preform live, it was a real emotional
sort of thing. And again, going back to what I
said about the pressure, I knew I had to do a
really good job. I just couldn’t destroy these
peoples expectations. I'll tell you one thing. My
favourite book of all time is Kes by Barry Hines.
He’s sadly dead now but he got alzheimer's and
couldn’t even remember what he had written, all
those great books he had written, anyway his
wife was there at the gig and to meet her and his
son, well I had tears coming down my face. I just
wanted too say thanks and I think that’s what a
lot of the Crass fans got as well. Its not hero
worship or any crap like that, its like thanks,
thanks for not letting me feel that I was alone
sort of thing.
SO COME THE NEXT DAY, YOU WAKE
UP AFTER FAREWELL 'LAST SUPPER'
GIG, EARS OBVIOUSLY RINGING, DID IT
FEEL LIKE SOME SORT OF
BEREAVEMENT OR FELT
ENLIGHTENED?
Well, we stayed in the hotel around the
corner from the venue. Got up. Mosey down to
breakfast which I didn’t eat because I never do.
Then we walked past the Shepherds Bush Empire,
where my name had already been taken down so it
was already history, and they was an almost funny
feeling of relief, you know, 'thank Christ as I never
had to do that again,' couple with, 'Ah. I am never
going to do that again!'
We all parted at Kings Cross station, I came
back to Norfolk and before I knew it, I was in the
local pub, playing pool. It was really bizarre.
Actually I think we went to Tesco's first because we
didn’t have any milk! I cant describe it. It was just
nuts!
LOOKING BACK, HOW DID STEVE
WILLIAM'S BECOME STEVE IGNORANT .
WAS THERE ANY THING IN YOUR EARLY
YEARS THAT CHANGED YOU INTO THIS
SPOKESMAN?
Well I think obviously seeing The Clash for
the first time did it, getting that inspiration. I
thought this is it! This is what I’ve been thinking!
They were saying it and doing it. And I wanted a
bit of that and I was pretty sure I could. Of course I
had no idea but it was the same for a lot of people.
It almost felt like this is what we were all waiting
for to happen.
“It was the same with
Crass. Some people were
waiting for this outlet.”

WERE YOU REBELLIOUS AS A CHILD
THEN, DID YOU QUESTION THINGS?
Yeah, but not in the same way. I was
always moaning down the pub, that sort of
thing. I was going to football and getting in all
sorts of scraps, sticking my fingers up at
policemen and that but really it was just
normal teenage rebellion. They wasn’t really a
purpose behind it then. I remember being
frightened, looking around at older people and
seeing what they got but I didn’t like it! I just
didn’t know how I was going to get out of it! So
I did reside myself to the normal of getting a
girlfriend, getting engaged, getting married,
having some kids with a nice little semi. It was
like that for everyone back then, that would be
my lot. Get old, shut up and keep my head
down. But I didn’t want that to happen.
Perhaps the rebellion came out another way .
Yeah I was a bit of a rebel but but everyone
was. It really came out when I became more
aware of life. I mean I knew nothing about
politics. I didn’t have any education like that.
SO WHEN CRASS BECAME MORE
ESTABLISHED, DID YOU START TO FEEL
A WEIGHT OF PRESSURE ON YOU.
NATURALLY BEING THE UNOFFICAL
FIGUREHEAD. DID YOU FEEL THAT
EVERYTHING YOU DID AS STEVE
IGNORANT WAS HELD UP. THIS GREAT
ANARCHIST ICON AS IT WERE?
I didn’t feel I was put of a pedal stool so
much, but I was aware that I had this certain
responsibility and I think all of us in Crass felt
that, but I think we put ourselves in that
position more than anyone else. We backed
ourselves into that position, and found it really
hard to get out of it. I remembered when Crass
finished, I thought 'What the fuck am I going to
do now?' There was nothing I could do. I could I
equal that! But I was wrong!
IF WE LOOK BACK BACK AT CRASS'S
LAST THIRTY FIVE YEARS, DO YOU
THINK WHAT CRASS DID MADE AN
IMPACT. I MEAN IF YOU LOOK AT THE
POLITICAL CLIMATE NOW, TRUMP ETC,
IT'S PROBABLEY AS FUCKED AS IT EVER
WAS. IS PUNK MORE OF A NOSTALGA
MOVEMENT NOW?
Well I still believe there are younger
people trying to achieve things, there are people
desperately trying to shout out against it all but
the look of it any more, doesn’t shock. I think its
nice still to see bright colours and people being
individuals like that. Its easy to say these days
that it was just another uniform, just another
fashion but underneath it all, there are still
individuals that still believe in it, trying to do
something. That will never go away.

YOU SEE I FEEL A LITTLE SAD THAT NOWDAYS IT
FEELS ITS THE SAME PEOPLE DOING LOTS OF
THINGS WITHIN PUNK, RATHER THAN STILL AS A
MOVEMENT THAT I GOT FROM THE EIGHTIES.
Yeah I see what you mean but its good to see those people
still doing something. It gives me a little kick up the arse. Its alright
for me to talk to you grumbling and groaning that nothings
happening but it is. I mean I had to go to Portugal for some sort
of convention and it was all professors and doctors and they
were old punks. Its was bizarre but fantastic. Its not just people
in recording studios, its people out there and that’s what I
always wanted. Imagine one day a punk politician, a prime
minster or something. Don’t know how that would work but you
know what I mean . A lawyer, a punk policeman. Brilliant!
DID YOU HOPE THE COUNTRY WOULD BE IN A BETTER
STATE BECAUSE OF CRASS. DID YOU HOPE THE WORLD
WOULD LOOK A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY ON THE BACK
OF CRASS AND WHAT IT ACHIEVED?
Yeah I could feel that after the posturing and the
screaming, something has changed. But there’s little examples
like if it weren’t for a lot of punks, could we now go anyway to
eat and get a vegetarian selection. The sexism issue. As a whole
we are far more aware of it although you get all these Lady
Gaga's farting about in their underwear on stage......WEARING
A CRASS T- SHIRT?(laughs) Yeah I don’t know what that’s all
about. Are they playing on women and flashing their tits. But
then again, I’m a grumpy old git these days so I don’t
understand!
WELL THIS LEADS ME NICELY ON TO MY NEXT
QUESTION. IF YOU NOW WAS WALKING ALONG SEA
PALLING (WHERE STEVE LIVES) WITH EIGHTEEN YEAR
OLD STEVE IGNORANT, WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU
WOULD TALK ABOUT ?
Phew. That’s a bastard one! I'd probably try and talk him
in joining the life boat crews (Steve is a member of the life boat
crew.)( laughs.) That’s definitely a young persons job! I would
probably ask them what you think that the Lady Gaga's and
Justin Biebers of this world are trying to achieve? What message
do you thing they are trying to put across.
...WHAT WOULD YOUR ADVICE BE TO YOURSELF?
Oh! (laughs) ...Just take it easy!

HEY HEY HO...
...
WHAT RAMONES SONG DO YOU
FUCKING KNOW?
Yeah, we contacted all these famous types
to see if they could name an actual
Ramone's song!
HARRY FROM ONE DIRECTION
“God ....Not off the top of
my head right now!”
VERDICT; TOSSPOT!
JOHNNY FROM BIG BANG THINGY...
“Yeah sure. I'm more a
Black Flag guy tho!”
VERDICT; COOL!
2 TWATS FROM THOSE SHIT
MAGAZINES
“..Who the fuck are you?”
VERDICT; OH FUCK
OFF!
TWO YEAR OLD KID
“...Mummy. I don’t like
him!”
VERDICT;YOUR GOING
THE RIGHT WAY !.
FINAL VERDICT;
Johnny wins this time
but as we all know,
Ramone's T's will always look better
on punks the best and of course
...The Ramones!
IF YOU LIKE A SLICE OF EVERYTHING IN YOUR H/C THEN
HAILING FROM MELBOURNE, AUSTRALIAN POWERHOUSE
THE PATIENT, MIGHT BE JUST THE BAND YOU ARE LOOKING
FOR !
SO HOW DID IT ALL COME TOGTHER?
Well I (Luke) had been playing in a punk band called
Postscript and we weren’t doing much so I had free time
on my hands, I had always loved Heavy music but still
wanted a punk vibe. I grabbed Craig off a forum on
facebook as I knew of his work Drexler. He brought in
Tommy. Sometime later Mat joined.
WAS MIXING H.C AND PUNK WITH OTHER GENRES A
CONSCIOUS THING FROM THE START?
Most definitely. Punk is what we all grew up on but doing
the 90s style punk stuff was for our other bands so we
wanted to do something different. Plus I wanted it to be
more basic so it was a lot more straight up. So no real
heavy lead parts like in punk rock.
WHAT'S THE MELBOURNE SCENE LIKE?
Melbourne is known for having a great scene. We have a
lot of great venues that really help bands on any level get
out there and play. You form bonds pretty quick with
other bands in the scene...its great everyone’s trying to
help each other out mostly.
SO THE NEW ALBUM IS OUT. HOW DID IT GO. WAS IT WHAT
YOU THOUGHT IT WOULD BE?
Its due out Oct 14 worldwide via our Bandcamp and
itunes. We have had some solid reviews come in and our
video for Detox spread around nicely. So yeah happy at
this stage mate! We just want people to hear it, if we can
get a few sales and some more shows out of it great!
Obviously it ever took off that would be awesome too! It
helps with magazines like this spreading the word so
thank you!

“ “CLASSIC BLISTERING ANTI
SYSTEM” - GRENADE
NEW CD OUT SOON

As I headed into twilight years of being thirteen, my
monthly treat was to board the number twenty bus to the city of
Norwich. Exciting stuff you may think but wait! With
pockets full with an array of coins and notes, usually either
stolen off my often absent father or earned within the throws of
slave labour jobs a boy of my age had to endure.
My destination, ...Backs Records!
A tiny little record shop, hidden from the bustling city
that catered for anyone, sick to the back teeth of the eighties
pop scene. In the corner, and often after waiting in line, were
two rows of punk and hardcore albums. Not much you may
think but packed with albums that held as many bands as
Maximum Rock and Roll magazine could hold.
After much research the month before through the said
magazine, my mission was to buy one of the aforementioned
vinyl’s!
On one said visit, there it was. 'Killed By Remote Control'
by Toxic Reasons! After parting with some English pounds,
before I knew it, I had boarded the bus home. Salivating with
the cover in my hand for the hours journey home. I wasn’t
disappointed. Of course I never was in the 80s.
So come 2016, I've watched numerous bands reform, arise
from the punk graveyard across the summer. So where the hell is
Toxic Reasons?
Wait a minute. I write a punk/H.C mag. I play drums!
...I'll find the drummer!
Like 'Killed by Remote Control,' J.J Pearson didn’t
disappoint!

So let me take you back to 1981. The
band had started and then you appeared!
Yeah in the Summer of 81 I was Lucky to have
drummed with a couple of noteworthy early
Vancouver Punk Rock Bands. "No Exit" &
Bludgeoned Pigs. No Exit (just prior to me
joining them) were the first Canadian Punk Band
to release an Independent LP & Bludgeoned Pigs
were one of the examples of Vancouver's punk
scene's legendary genre "Fuck Bands" ( a group of
members from other Vancouver's bands, typically
playing different instruments then their main
band & playing various covers & joke songs) I also
was roadie for a few local celeb drummers (Chuck
Biscuits, Zippy Pinhead & Dimwit). Toxic Reasons
traveled from Dayton Ohio to Vancouver to play
a show with Dead Kennedy's & DOA. Toxics
original drummer "Mark Patterson" quit the Band
after the show. I think he was a little bit
disillusioned with the frequency of shows they
were to have on their first real tour & basically,
the unstable life on the road. It was either Dave
Gregg or Shithead that told toxic's that they had a
little roadie (ME, i was a teeny 16 year old) that
was a pretty good drummer too. so they called me
up, asked me if i wanted to jam. The next thing I
knew we ran through some songs a few times,
played a show at the "Smilin' Buddha" and was set
to travel with them to play 4 shows they had
booked down the west coast. They would then
bring me back to Vancouver & they would go
back to Dayton to regroup. The first show, San
Francisco.... Dead Kennedy's, Husker Du, Toxic
Reasons. 2nd Show San Francisco... Black Flag
(W/ recent addition of Henry Rollins) & Toxic
Reasons. 3rd Show in L.A, TSOL, Ch3, Saccharine
Trust, Toxic Reasons. 4th Show Back in Frisco w/
Flipper. NOT FUCKEN BAD EH? I was Hooked!
Being a Roadie myself I was kinda chummy with
BOB ROADIE (the road crew of one for Toxic
Reasons) and I asked him if he thought the guys
would let me just STAY in the band. He said he'd
run it by the guys. Ed Pittman figured I was
alright, dubbed me "JJ KILL" and said I got the
gig......
Things were tough in the early days! Was it
true you all lived on a dollar a day and heated
your food on the van dashboard heater, slept in
frozen tents on tour!
When I left Vancouver for good with the band
after the little west coast mini tour i received a
final check from my busboy job in North Van
of $118.00. We had not yet discussed the
compensation for being the drummer and when
we went back to San Francisco to meet up with
our new record guy & road manager we played a
show at The Mabuhay Gardens, (cant remember
with who maybe Social D) but Bruce broke his
guitar and gave it so some kid in the front row,
so we (as a band) had to buy him a new guitar.
My busboy money pitched in and we got'm a rig
at an SF pawn shop. (back in the say when pawn
shops didn't know shit about guitars. I think we
payed $300 for probably an $1800 dollar Les
Paul) Anywho, that is when i was made aware of
our per diam amount and yes it was $1.00 a day.
We would often buy a can of chili hot beans
some flour tortillas & Ed would "5 finger
discount" some picante sauce, Roadie Bob
would cut the can of beans open with his Bowie
knife and we would hold a tortilla open, Bob
would spill our ration of beans and if you were
on Ed's good side that day he'd flow you some
picante sauce. Bam! Rock & Roll Burrito. Bruce
& I would often go splits on a bag of Bull
Durham tobacco and roll our own cigs. One
time we sent Bruce to sell some plasma and they
said he was too anaemic so we went out bought
him a few packs of ramen and some multi
vitamins, waited a day and sent him back and
Voila! Eat'n money. In Europe we had a two
bedroom tent that we each had our own duties
when it came time to set it up & we got to be
like an Indy 500 pit crew getting that fucken
thing together and up in aNY kind of weather.
with that we had a little camp cook stove so
beans & toast were a Toxic camp stand by. Yes,
the heat vent on the dash of the van was often
used for a soup can heating device as well.

So you know my fav L.P but for you, being in the band and
creating this monster , what would you consider your finest vinyl?
For me, I think our finest hour was our 2nd LP ,"Kill By
Remote Control". After Ed leaving the band we had to all really
come together in writing and singing duties and in my mind
THAT is when we became a seemingly inseparable, unstoppable,
hard rocking, 4 members, band of brothers.....
And with No Peace in our Time, this was the first punk CD
that included a CD ROM?
"No Peace" is probably my second fave. Jurgen Goldschmidt
(our German record guy) set that one up. Yeah, it was a first of it's
kind. Pretty Lo-Fi compared to stuff these days, but it was fun
putting it all together .
Its 1995! Your touring, releasing great albums, even with CD
ROMS and then you all call it a day!
This is the question that might rub some of the fellas wrong!
But, here goes MY side of the Story....Century Media Re-released
our first LP, "Independence" and our Latest "No Peace in Our
Time". It was our first release in America since like 86 or 88 or
something, so it was a pretty good opportunity. They wanted us
to do a tour in the States with "The Business" (who they had just
done a similar re lease & new release with) & some other band
(cant I remember who) but they were just signed to a major label.
We were going to be the opening. Opening band only guaranteed
$500 bucks a night but they were going to have a member from
each of the three bands on the local "Alternative Rock" radio
station before each show and a decent spread on each band in the
local rock rag in each of the towns on the tour. So to Bruce & I, it
seemed like a no brain-er. Get the chance to spread the good word
of our rock and roll to the peoples of our own continent. (We
had spent the better part of the 80's and early 90's only playing in
Europe). Tufty had started his own business, "Future Shock"
(clothing, shoes, jewellery etc. shop) and he said he wasn't able to
leave it to go on some tour. "Were we really weren't gonna make
any dough and be so low on the bill". At the time we had a
European tour already booked and the US leg would have been
right before heading off to Europe. Bruce & I agreed if Tufty
wasn't into the Century Media deal tour & we were just going to
go do another 5 week fishing trip with the boys over to Europe
and not take advantage of this opportunity to re ignite some
interest in us in the states, we may as well just call it a day after
the tour in Europe. Tufty was not too happy about that and there
was a bit of a rift between us all for a while as a result. We are
VERY close now and have the utmost respect for each other so
that bad blood is long gone water under the bridge..

That's good to hear but what did you do next?
After Toxics, I plunged head first into the restaurant business full
time. Started managing and shit. Eventually I owned a few of my
own little bistros. I was able to find time in there to record a solo
CD called "Only One Reason". I did a U.S. Midwest and & European
tour to support it in the summer of 08 & had a fucking blast! I then
tried my luck at a lifelong dream of owning a Restaurant on
"Saltspring Island," a beautiful place off the coast of Vancouver BC
(where I had spent most of my childhood). I packed up my cooking
tools & headed back to Canada on my own, leaving my wife in
Indianapolis to care for the kids, home & critters while I tried to get
my place, "Beach Bistro" rolling. Unfortunately I had not thoroughly
done my homework, I thought I was exempt from the new restaurant
rule cause I had already been in business for myself for 7 years and I
really didn't have enough funds to do it up right. My attempt failed
after a year of plugging at it. I was urged by my wife to come back
home to Indiana. She funded me so she had the first right of refusal
to calling it quits! I came home , with my tail between my legs a
little.. After I returned and lay in bed , for about a month, licking
my wounds, yes I went to truck driving school, earned my CDL and
yes, now I drive a big rig.
So how do you look back on your time in Toxic Reasons. With all these U.S
bands reforming, what are the chances of seeing you guys rise up again?.
Playing With Toxic Reasons were some of the best years of my life. When
I started I was a little 16 year old boy that new shit! I hooked up with the best
group of muther fuckers who I got to see the world with. They will ALWAYS
be my brothers that I love very much. Back in the old days, often we would
get the introduction in interviews on radio shows, magazine articles & such
that we were a band that "didn't get the recognition that they deserved". We
played in every one horse town that a lot of national and international bands
wouldn't bother to play. These days, many bands that didn't put in the miles
(on the road or in the studio) seem to be getting pretty sweet spots on major
festivals and such, where we don't seem to spark the interest of enough to be
asked to play. For me, It would be hard on the body, mind & spirit to go out
on the road, be the opener, opener, opener on some second or third stage of
some rock fest and not really get any validation for the years and miles we
put in this fucker. We were a hard working band that rocked, if I do say so
myself! Yah, it may sound like sour grapes but it would have to be a pretty
good deal (for us guys) to make me want to go out and do it again. Don't get
me wrong. I'd play with Tufty, Bruce, Rob, Ed, Joel, or Fefo for any one off
or any studio situation any time anywhere. A lot of my answers are thoughts,
feelings & ideas from a time long since passed and might hurt some feelings.
I need to make the statement now, that myself & all the former members of
Toxic Reasons are very good friends & we share a brotherhood unlike any
other that I've experienced in my lifetime.. But for us to come back out and
play a tour? I don't think there is enough interest in us to do so.....

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN !
LET ME INTRODUCE TO YOU
THE HUMBLE....
Cassette Tape...
CAN YOU IMAGAINE WHAT THE PUNK/HARDCORE SCENE WOULD LOOK LIKE IN THE 80'S IF IT WASNT FOR THIS LITTLE BOX
OF WIGGERLY STUFF. NO D.I.Y DEMO'S, ALBUMS AND BOOTLEGS. IT DOESNT BARE THINKING ABOUT IF IT WASNT FOR THE
WORK OF LOU OTTENS AND HIS GROUP OF NERDS. SO GRENADE PAYS HOMAGE TO THE HUMBLE CASSETTE TAPE ...AND OF
COURSE, LOU OTTENS!
“
The group of engineers that
I got to manage in the late 1950s
and early 1960s consisted of
mostly young people with
experience in the design or
manufacture of record-playing and
tape-recording equipment
in Eindhoven based. It was a
mixed group of Belgian and
Dutch origin. We were lucky
that we could always fall
back on the knowledge
available in the
laboratories and factories
of the research centre in
Eindhoven, 40 miles away. I am
not sure how big the group was
actually during, say 1960. Maybe
in total 40 people, including
those working on record players.
Before the design of the Compact
Cassette, we developed our first
battery-driven reel-to-reel
portable recorder,the EL 3585
came out in 1958, I believe,and
was very successful. The total
production was more than one
million pieces. It made us
confident that there would be a
big market for a smaller,
pocketable battery recorder.”
THERE MUST HAVE BEEN
PRESSURE FROM OTHER
MANUFACTURES AT THE TIME?
“Somewhere during 1958 the US
company RCA proposed in a worldwide
campaign the introduction together
with a standardisation proposal of
their so called “quick loading
cartridge” based on two flangeless
hubs in a flat box.
Flangeless hubs facil -
itate smaller
dimensions because
one reel diminishes
as the other grows in
diameter. It was based
on the existing
standard tape speed 3 ¾ IPS
[inches per second] or 9,5cm/sec and
reversible utilisation for 2 x 30
minutes in stereo. We, as a product
development group, were aimed at the
lower price range of the gramophone
and recording market. New product
proposals should therefore be cheap,
small, have a low battery
consumption, together with an
appropriate reproduction quality.
"The Japanese competition on the
market consisted of small, rim drive
type reel-to-reel recorders of
inferior reproduction quality and
had a battery life of only a few
hours. Our group was working on
ideas for a successor of the EL 3585
and we were trying out different
proposals for cartridges and tape
sizes and tape speeds.
,”

D . Y . S / DAGNA STY / A LL /
DOWN BY
LAW....
FUCK ME , ITS
...
DAVE
SMALLEY
W
OW! A BACHELORS DEGREE FROM BOSTON
COLLEGE AND A MASTERS IN POLITICAL
SCIENCE. WHAT DID YOU FEEL INSIDE THAT
YOU NEEDED TO REACH FOR. ESPECIALLY
HAVING YOU HANDS ON THE POLITICAL WHEEL
THAT DROVE A LOT OF THE HARDCORE ANGST.
WHAT MORE WERE YOU REACHING FOR. DID
YOU WANT TO QUESTION YOUR OWN
OPINIONS?
“I think punk and hardcore ultimately, for me,
was less about political stuff, and more about being
yourself, and trying to make your world better. Leave
it better than you found it. Most of us in the Boston
Crew were not into anarchy or that sort of stuff -- we
had a very different vision, much more focused and
personal. Part of being who you are is being who you
are. To the best of our knowledge, you only get one goround
-- why waste it trying to be someone else? You'll
always be the best you. I always connected with
different, sometimes opposite sides of life -- for
instance, back then tons of hard rock and metal, but
also more mellow stuff like James Taylor or Chicago --
as a musician, amazing harmonies and playing move
me, wherever it comes from.

.And the same thing with the academic side. You talk
about the school stuff. That idea of being yourself ties into
that. It's interesting, for instance, when you study the Bill
of Rights in the Constitution, it's ultimately all about
independence from central power! In other words the Bill
of Rights (and the Declaration of Independence before it)
are the essence of punk and hardcore. The 10th
Amendment says, in essence, if something isn't listed in
this document as a power of the government, it's reserved
to the states and to the people. In essence, that was
decidedly pro freedom and against big government telling
you how to live. That's punk rock at its very essence. If I
was reaching for anything then and now it was an
unconscious battle-cry to just be real and live a life that
matters. I've never really strayed from that vision of the
foundation of punk rock: thoughtful independence. I
think the song "Quadrophenia" from The Who pretty
much captured me. Still does. The world is a big and
diverse place. Why only have chocolate ice cream if you
can have vanilla and strawberry too? But just remember
to respect those who don't like ice cream at all.
WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN THE LATE
SEVENTIES/EARLY EIGHTIES IN YOUR LIFE THAT
BECAME THE FRONT MAN/LYRIST. WHAT MADE YOU
THE PERSON YOU HAVE BECOME?
Great question. If I find the person responsible I'm
going to kill him! I don't know, honestly. Like everyone
else, I suppose teachers, parents and friends all played a
role. Part of it too was the times and music. There was
some amazing rock coming out (AC/DC for instance) but it
was also sort of the end of the disco period and there was
some good old fashioned rebellion to the hippies and
drugs that dominated so much of the 60s and 70s. At that
time I had been in so many musicals (I still love to watch
Singing in the Rain or 7 Brides for 7 Brothers) that my
parents showed me and that was key. My fifth and sixth
grade teacher, Mrs. Zolbe, showed me that I could sing.
And when I combined singing with the rage of a
discontented 17 year old kid who saw a world that could
be so much better, it all helped shape me. Early bands that
were kind of "light bulb" life changers were The Clash, The
Jam, Elvis Costello, The Ramones, and weird stuff like
Richard Hell and the Voidoids, for instance. Mind blowing
first album. That period it seemed like every week there
was a new really original band that made you realize
there were different doors we could charge?

Listening to DYS, especially Brotherhood,
the sound is quite dark/deep in thought.
Almost quite mature for you young guys.
What made the Boston sound almost
meaner than other bands from the west
coast, and also Dagnasty.
.What’s the difference between Dave Smalley
the father and Dave Smalley the
singer/performer. Are they two different
people. Do have to separate them?
There's no question that fatherhood is
the most important role in any man's life. It
not only helps form young men and women and
the future of the planet, but it also shows the
real men, those who put others before themselves.
To be a dad and husband is to accept
that it's not about you any more It's the most
unselfish thing in the world. It's honourable,
The ones who do their best to be a good dad
and a good role model, who work to support
their family, are the ones who get my respect
every time. As a punk rock musician, and a
father, I just try to show my kids
unquestioning love. I'm the same guy on stage
or in the living room watching "The Flash"
with my boys. If I'm honest about who I am,
all sides of me, that teaches them honesty for
life.
Having a family/job and still preforming!
How strange is that notion from the
eighteen year old Dave Smalley, embroiled
at the start of a new revised movement ?
Yeah, I am still going for all (no, ALL!).
Again, the ice cream analogy. In 1950, it would
have been unusual to have pedal to the metal
punk rock music, family and a working life. But
in 2017, it wouldn't make sense to not go for
it. Multitasking. As far as 18 year old me, I
hope the me of 2016 is still the same person in
many ways -- only I'm getting closer to Obi
Wan than Han nowadays!
Thanks. I think that's true. DYS
Brotherhood was raging hardcore but it
reflected who each person was and it was a
really unique chemistry, and i think that's what
made that album unique. I think that period,
each American city really had its own
character and style, both clothes style but also
attitude and music. Boston was defin - itely
darker and tougher than some of the other
scenes other cities. A good part of that was
shaped by SS Decontrol, they were pure
badass and tough, musically and attitude wise,
and Al was our leader and inspiration, for me.
And those who gravitated to them and to DYS
as well, we all were just focused, tough! We
connected with the pit, the crew, the shows,
the scraps, all of it.
Listening to your lyrics nowadays about
people getting along better. Do you think, in
hindsight, 80's punk bands and people
should have addressed this first before
hitting say political issues head on. After
nearly 40 years, politically have we learnt
anything looking at the political climate
now. Trump etc.
Definitely we have to improve ourselves
before we can improve the world. Punk rock at
its core is not about any politician or political
party, but rather it's about the ability to look
yourself in the mirror every morning..

Musically, what embraced you first. Was it
punk from the UK or was it from what was
happening in the US?
While I loved the first DKs record, and
literally wouldn't be here and who I am
without the Ramones, the UK 77 era punk
bands were big influences on me. Jam, Clash,
Pistols, Generation X, Undertones, Elvis
Costello, and a bit later the ska revival
bands like the Specials, the English Beat,
etc. I really did love the early Adolescents,
Wasted Youth, TSOL and some of the early
DC and Chicago stuff back in the States
too. So while my screams were over here,
the melody and songs and lyrics from all
those UK bands were just brilliant and
definitely shaped me. Helped form my
personality. One of my son's middle name is
Strummer.
Alive or dead. If mother nature granted
you your all time band, with you on
vocals, who would play bass, guitar and
drums?
John Enwistle on bass. Pete Townshend
on guitar. And Keith Moon on drums.
We have to talk about Can I Say! Its the
reason we are talking now, one as a
journalist and also someone in 1986, a
boy whose jaw dropped when he popped
the tape into the cassette player!
How did it come together in this new D.I.Y
environment in 86. Did you know it was
something special?
Thanks so much, that means a lot.
Unfortunately that's a long story and best
saved for another time. I love telling stories
but I also love your readers and don't want to
make this the longest interview ever. I will just
say that yeah, i knew, or maybe more accurate
to say I felt it instinctively, felt it was special.
And it was the particular combination of the
four of us on Can I Say that was had that
incredible spark, that chemistry, it just clicked
and was mind blowing. And when those
moments come in in life you ride the lightning
until you get fried. It was the result of four
young men hitting our musical growth spurt in
exactly the right time and place to come
together and grow as musicians, feeding off
the talents of the other three. I definitely felt a
rush with it. It was unique. I think that album
remains unique. We captured "it" what- ever
"it" is. That doesn't happen every day in life,
so when it happens, go for it!
How does it feel knowing there is another
version of Dagnasty, singing your songs,
doing the rounds. Although your body of
work has kept you credible and interesting,
as a performer does it feel the band are
having an almost affair behind your back.
Especially as your time was at its highest
point!

NEW NOVEL BY EX DISRUPTERS
STEVE HANSELL
ACTIVEDISTROBUTIONSHOP ORG
IF OVER 21,OOO FACKBOOKERS LIKE
AEROPAJITAS, THEN MAYBE YOU SHOULD GIVE
THEM A LISTEN TOO!
What bands got you guys into punk and who
made you want to pick up instruments and play.
I definitely can mention Sex Pistols, Ramones, La
Polla Records, Eskorbuto, RIP, and Peruvian
underground bands Narcosis and Leusemia.....
So how did it all come together back in 1994?
Lince is from neighborhood where the guitarist
lived, then it was the place to get together, to play
and was a central location. It was close to where
concerts and other activities of the underground
rock were made since the late 80s.
What's the Peru scene like. Is it was to play. Get
gigs etc?
Nowadays it's like a scene divided into groups of
punks! Everyone moves as they can until the case of
self-managed middling concerts are organized
surprisingly. There are people out there that
eventually comes out of that mold?
Long Island based Punk /
Hardcore Record Label & Distro.
WWW .
STATEOFMINDRECORDINGS . COM
What do you sing about. Are you songs different
from ones in the west, politically and socially?
We sing about ourselves, the shit that happen to us,
what we hate and share with people. We sing songs
of drunks and losers in the streets. And also
something about football.
THE NEW ALBUM IS OUT IN NOVEMBER.
WWW . AREOPAJITAS . COM

NEXT TO THE I.R.A, THE ANIMAL LIBERATION FRONT WERE ONE
OF THE UK'S MOST FEARED CELL OF ACTIVISTS! WHEN
LEAFLETING WASNT ENOUGH, I HAD TO REACH OUT TO HELP
FIND AN END TO ANIMAL EXPLOITATION. I FOUND IT! AND
THANKS TO THIS MAN AND HIS CONFIDANTS, WE GOT TO WORK.
REGARDLESS OF THE LAW. REGARDLESS OF SELF INTEREST. I GIVE
YOU ...RONNIE LEE!.
SO HOW DOES A LAW STUDENT FROM LUTON
SUDDENLY SENSE THIS FLICK OF A SWITCH WHEN
IT CAME TO ANIMAL FREEDOM. WHAT HAPPENED
INSIDE YOU. WHAT DID YOU SEE?
By the time I had become a law student I
was already vegetarian and in my younger life I
had taken action several times to protect animals,
so that day in 1972 when I bought a copy of The
Vegetarian Society's magazine and read in it about
the suffering and slaughter caused by the dairy
and egg industries, and about factory farming, the
fur trade, bloodsports and vivisection, it was
probably a natural progression for me to become
vegan and want to fight wholeheatedly against
animal abuse...
PERSONALLY SPEAKING, LEAFLETING ON A
SATURDAY WASN’T ENOUGH. I YEARNED FOR WHAT
IS NOW TERMED DIRECT ACTION. FOR YOU, WAS IT
A CONSCIOUS EFFORT OR A SLOW COMING
TOGETHER OF IDEAS THAT EVENTUALLY FORMED
THE BAND OF MERCY?
The Band of Mercy arose out of two things:
a desire to take effective action against
cubhunting, which the normal methods used by
hunt saboteurs were ineffective against, and
frustration at the failure of existing animal
protection societies to stem the tide of animal
persecution.

WHAT EARLY ACTIONS TOOK PLACE?
The first ones were damage to vehicles at
hunt kennels to stop them going cubhunting, then
there were attempts to burn down a vivisection lab
that was under construction, an attack on two boats
used for seal hunting, and damage to vehicles used
to transport animals to laboratories..
WAS IT A CONFUSING TIME WHEN HSA
OFFERED THE REWARD FOR
INFORMATION LEADING TO THE
ARRESTS OF THE BAND OF MERCY. DID
IT SPUR YOU ON?
I knew the HSA people who
offered the reward were actually
sympathetic to the Band of Mercy, but
just wanted to distance the HSA from
it. I still thought offering the reward
was a bad thing to do though. It didn't
particularly spur us on, as we were
totally determined to carry on with our
actions anyway.
IF YOU CAN, PLEASE DESCRIBE THE
TIME LEADING UP TO THE RAID ON
THE OXFORD LAB ANIMAL COLONIES.
AND THE ARREST?
Cliff Goodman and myself
had gone on two camping
"holidays", where we would pitch
tent near to the premises of
companies that supplied animals to
laboratories and then raid the
places in the early hours of the
morning, usually to damage their
vehicles. There was a security
guard at the OLAC premises, but we
kept out of sight and thought he
hadn't seen us. Unfortunately, he
had, and called the police, who
turned up and arrested us.
HOW DOES A MAN, WHOSE GOALS WERE FOR ANIMAL FREEDOM,
FEEL AROUND THE REST OF SOCIETIES CRIMINALS. HOW WERE YOU
TREATED?
I had mixed feelings about them. Some were nasty pieces
of work, others were basically decent people who had gone a bit
wrong. In general there was a lot of sympathy towards me from
other prisoners, although some found it difficult to understand
how someone could be in prison for doing something that was not
for personal gain.

12 MONTHS AFTER YOUR RELEASE, HOW DID YOU FEEL. HOW
HAD YOU CHANGED AS A PERSON?
I hadn't really changed at all, and 12 months after my
release I had already got back into direct action with the
Animal Liberation Front, which the Band of Mercy had changed
its name to by then.
WHAT DID THE EARLY BEGINNINGS OF THE A.L.F LOOK LIKE.
WHAT WAS THE MOOD. DID YOU FEEL A MARKED MAN?
Lots of people in the animal rights movement were keen
to get involved in the ALF and there was a very positive feeling.
I knew I was a marked man as the police quite frequently
arrested me for questioning when ALF actions took place.
HOW DID YOU FEEL ABOUT OTHER FOUNDER MEMBER CLIFF
GOODMAN, WHO DIDNT WANT TO RETURN TO PRISON AND
TURNED INFORMER, BACK THEN, AND YOUR THOUGHTS OF HIM
NOW?
I was obviously angry with Cliff when he turned
informer, although he did stop co-operating with the police
after a few of us had a meeting with him. He has spent the rest
of his life campaigning for animal protection, so I feel he really
has made amends, at least as far as I'm concerned, and I have
forgiven him for what happened to me as a result of his
informing.
DID YOU FEEL A GREAT WEIGHT ON YOUR SHOULDERS, ALMOST
RESPONSIBLE FOR THE A.L.F. HOW DID THAT FEEL, ESPECIALLY
WITH BARRY HORNE?
I felt a responsibility to the animals to try to increase
ALF activity as much as possible. There may be those who
might argue that if there had been no ALF, Barry Horne would
still be alive, but he was an adult man who was capable of
deciding whether or not to get involved in direct action and
subsequently go on hunger strike in prison.

What time did you spend in prison and what charges (there are many
conflicting reports!)
I spent a total of about 9 years in prison altogether, comprised of 3
sentences and some time on remand. The various charges I faced were
arson, criminal damage, burglary, theft, handling stolen property and
conspiracy to cause criminal damage and incite others to do do. All
connected with damage to premises and property involved in animal
persecution and rescuing animals from such places.
Barry Horne, dustman turned ALF fire-bomber, made an even bigger impression
behind bars. In 1997 he was sentenced to 18 years, the longest sentence
imposed on any UK animal rights protestor, for fire-bombing shopping centres
in Bristol and the Isle of Wight.
His hunger strike demand during the dying days of John Major's Conservative
government in January 1997 was that the government must pledge to withdraw
its support and funding for vivisection within five years. Later that year he went
on hunger strike again but switched to the lesser demand that the Labour
Government should honour its pre-election pledge to support a Royal
Commission on animal research. After a further two hunger strikes, for 68 days
in 1998 and for about two weeks in 2001, Horne died from liver failure and was
hailed as a martyr by animal rights extremists.
The almost inevitable result of these repeated hunger strikes - as expected -
was a huge rise in animal rights activity in his name. For example, using a tactic
associated with peace campaigners, 60 activists set up a 'permanent' camp in
support of Horne directly opposite the main gates of Huntingdon Life Sciences
(HLS) main complex near Huntingdon. Staff faced protestors whenever they
arrived or left the site. HLS, the largest contract research company in Europe
using animals, has been one of the main activist targets in recent years. .
If Ronnie Lee now, could meet the Ronnie Lee of the sevenities, what
would you talk about?
WHAT TIME DID YOU SPEND IN PRISON AND WHAT CHARGES
Probably I spent a strategy total of about and tactics, 9 years in in prison terms altogether, of the best comprised way to achieve of 3 sentences and some
time on animal remand. liberation The various and charges I'd give I him faced some were tips, arson, so criminal he could damage, avoid being burglary, theft,
handling arrested stolen so property much! and conspiracy to cause criminal damage and incite others to do do. All
connected Q13 with damage to premises and property involved in animal persecution and rescuing
animals How from do such you reflect places.. of your life?
IF RONNIE I'm generally LEE NOW, happy COULD with MEET what THE RONNIE I've achieved, LEE OF THE although SEVENITIES, of course WHAT there WOULD
are some things I would have YOU done TALK ABOUT? differently if I had my time again.
Q14Probably strategy and tactics, in terms of the best way to achieve animal
liberation What and is happening I'd give him some in your tips, life so now. he could (please avoid publicise, being arrested plug so anything much!..
you wish!)
HOW DO YOU REFLECT OF YOUR LIFE?
I'm very much involved in campaigning for veganism, as I feel it's vital
I'm generally happy with what I've achieved, although of course there are some
things for I would the achievement have done differently of animal if I liberation had my time that again. we persuade as many
people as possible to go vegan. I also spent alot of time earlier this year
RONNIE working IS VERY with MUCH the INVOLVED author, IN CAMPAIGNING Jon Hochschartner, FOR VEGANISM, on AS my HE FEELS biography, IT'S VITAL FOR which THE is
ACHIEVEMENT OF ANIMAL LIBERATION THAT WE PERSUADE AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE TO GO VEGAN. HE
HAS
due
SPENT
to
A LOT
be
OF
published
TIME EARLIER
next
THIS YEAR
March,
WORKING
and
WITH
which
THE AUTHOR,
I hope
JON
will
HOCHSCHARTNER,
inspire lots
ON
more
HIS
BIOGRAPHY, people WHICH to campaign IS DUE TO BE for PUBLISHED veganism NEXT MARCH, and animal WHICH HE liberation. HOPES WILL INSPIRE LOTS MORE
.
PEOPLE TO CAMPAIGN FOR VEGANISM AND ANIMAL LIBERATION...

My father played drums in high school and became the drum major in the
marching band. Obviously sitting behind the snare drum was not as glamorous
as leading the band down the main streets of Bluefield, WV so he aimed a little
higher. What few friends I had were getting into the band program so I started in
the 5th grade in 1976. My mom had made a deal with me around then,
something to the effect of, “I’ll pay for your guitar lessons if you get into the
band.” The guitar lessons were $5 per 30 minute session and I was far more
motivated to rock than march. As they say, a deal is a deal. I So I have to
interject that I was FULLY focused on being an accomplished guitarist by not
only playing with my own punk bands but also by playing in the school
program’s jazz band. In a way, you know your tribe when you see it. I was
already getting friendly with much older locals and students attending WVU at
the time who were into punk rock.
You just didn’t see too many folks in Appalachia with safety pins in their
sleeveless t-shirts and bleached hair in 1981. Interestingly enough, the singer of
one of the most infamous local punk bands at the time, Liquid Spine, was one
Brian Hall. Brian not only was a great and completely over the top singer but
was half-African American, half-Anglo, a punk rocker, AND gay! Talk about a
walking target of sorts! But…Brian was cool with me. Punk rock was cool.
Brian was a REAL punk. So Brian was cool. I had my mind permanently
opened to being tolerant to many races and lifestyles and have been ever since.
How punk rock (and Brian for that matter) could have made me get into some
weirdly spiritual mindset to be open to all religions, nationalities, races, and
orientations is beyond me. But it, and he, did. Liquid Spine also housed the
future bassist and 2 guitarists for Dash and The Riprocks.

They too were aware of my guitar abilities and asked
me to replace a 2nd guitarist in Dash, But as the
politics got more confrontational towards society (our
Republican bassist and ROTC drummer were not
happy about the Reagan bashing and anticapitalism/consumerism
rhetoric), long-standing band
members jumped ship and the singer (“Art
Reco”/Bobb Cotter), the other guitarist (Robert
Bowers), and myself hung tight and pursued what was
to become th’ Inbred.
Keeping with the notion that there would still
be 2 guitarists, we set out to find a bass player and
discovered one in the jovial character of John “Duff”
MacIntosh, a political activist whose roots were in the
social revolution and music of the ‘60’s. Duff was our
token “hippie”, a good 10 years older than any of us,
played bass in reggae bands, and added a very
important and special diversity to the band in the face
of every other mohawked and leather jacketed punk
band we encountered. The big problem at this point
was auditioning drummers I starting playing drums to
maximize rehearsal time. I owe him much for saying
it but Duff turned to the other three of us and said,
“You’re better than anyone else we’ve auditioned and
you’re HERE, so why don’t YOU just be our
drummer?” DONE. …
WAS IT A CONSCIOUS EFFORT TO
MUSICALLY BROADEN THE SPECTRUM OF
STILL A FLEDGING MUSIC SCENE WHEN
YOU GOT TOGETHER?
Perhaps, on some level. We were all into
pushing the envelope in our own record collections so
it only seemed natural. There was a lot of push and
pull. Robert was into DC punk a lot, Duff was into the
message but not as much of the sound (I was wanting
him to play with a pick for more attack like Steve
Hansgen of Minor Threat, but thankfully, and to his
creative credit, using muting and picking techniques
with his right hand he came up with a very unique
style and sound for the genre), and Bob was into all of
it, particularly art rock like old Roxy Music, Eno, and
King Crimson. He was also into rare international
hardcore from Finland and Italy.
THE INFLUENCES DEFINITELY CAME
TOGETHER WITH THE RHYTHM PIGS.
HOW DID YOU GET THE CALL FOR THEM.
WAS IT A DIFFERENT ANIMAL FOR YOU
COMPARED TO TH INBRED?
I was not part of the writing team for Rhythm
Pigs. In that regard it was a VERY different animal
than th’ Inbred. Socially, interactively, in a way, if
th’ Inbred was all p.c. and “nice”, the Rhythm Pigs
were…just NOT. That’s all I’m going to say!!! Ed
and Greg were like older brothers I never had and
we got along fabulously. Those guys were one of
my absolute most favorite bands when they asked
me over to Europe to cover for 2nd drummer Kenny
Craun after he got double-pneumonia (October of
’87). Ed called me on Saturday and said Kenny was
sick and would I be available to fly over to finish
the tour? I asked, “When?” and he said, “Tuesday,
because we have a show Thursday in Germany and
we have to get there, hopefully to rehearse.” Ok! I
drove to DC, got an express passport, flew in, the
car engine blows up bringing me from Milan to
Torino (Greg was driving), Greg leaves me with the
car, hitchhikes to a payphone, it’s decided we leave
the car to get towed,Greg comes back, we hitchhike
with my duffel bag and handful of snare / pedals/
cymbals in the back of a hay-strewn farmer’s truck
to Torino…nice start, eh?

From my vantage point Ed Ivey, Greg Adams, and Jay Smith had a chemistry that was
THEIRS that could not have come from anywhere else other than El Paso. I moved to El
Paso in ’89 for a little over 2 years and GOT IT. El Paso is like living in a David Lynch
movie. It’s been said that psychics swear there to be a large level a paranormal spiritual
energy there. It’s magical. Get three guys like Ed, Greg, and Jay all consuming the same diet
of things savory and unsavory prior to rehearsing in a small shed on a cotton farm on the
outskirts of El Paso and THINGS HAPPEN. I will hold up their 7” e.p. to anything any band
did during that first wave of American Hardcore. It’s manic, paranoid, terrifying, humorous,
and absolutely take-no-prisoners.
Th’ Inbred put out “A Family Affair” around the same time they put out their selftitled
LP and we wound up coat tailing the Pigs on that tour (summer of ’86). We got their
itinerary and followed up with all contact info to get the opening spot on their shows in many
cases. Lots of great stories but I’m doing my best to stay on point here. The 2nd Pigs LP,
“Choke On This”, was…different. While it still had some amazing songs on it and classic
Pigs electricity, that intangible desert thing was missing. I was told by Greg and Ed both that
Curt Kirkwood of the Meat Puppets actually cautioned them on moving to California for that
very reason. “You’ll lose the desert vibe.” They pulled it off intact on the first self-titled LP,
but “Choke On This” is a departure.
WHEN RP WOUND DOWN, YOUR CREATIVITY DIDN'T. TELL US THE
TRANSITION FROM INFLUENTIAL DRUMMER TO LIFE OUTSIDE OF
THE PUNK SCENE? DESCRIBE ALL YOUR PROJECTS IF YOU COULD?
I wound up leaving El Paso to move to NYC to play with another political punk band,
False Prophets. They had been signed to Alternative Tentacles and had an odd reputation.
They were a different animal, really much more arty and theatrical than anything I was used
to or related to. False Prophets had a good European tour when I joined them but things got
really complicated after that. Nirvana had just become the big game changer of the industry
and all the lables were out and about and dangling carrots in front of just about every band on
the Lower East Side looking for another splash. We fell victim to the want and pressure to be
successful and none of us handled it well. The band imploded fell apart within a year.
During those first months living in NYC I met a lot of people, many way too soon and
too fast for my greenhorn insight. I auditioned for a Richard Butler (Psychedelic Furs) project
Years later I wound up drumming in the NYC 30th anniversary production of the musical
HAIR, and in another off Broadway run with the same theater company performing (of all
things) GODSPELL in 2000 with my fellow compadres from my original band at the time,
Shirley Temple of Doom, supplemented by one Tony Columbo on keyboards. I’m shocked I
did the shows but James Rado himself asked me to do HAIR, and GODSPELL was just a
marketing move for the band and a paying gig.
I had a window to audition to play bass for Soundgarden right before their first major
label release came out (summer of ’89). I was talking with Matt Cameron and Matt, to his
credit or at least by being a REALLY NICE GUY, listened to solo multi-instrumental
recordings and th’ Inbred/ RP’s stuff and said, “Soundgarden is pretty straight ahead. Are you
sure you can do this for the long haul?” and I said, “Yes”, but they had no cash to fly me up, I
had just moved to El Paso, was broke, and couldn’t fly up. They recruited Jason Everman
two weeks later and the rest is history. Sadly Matt gave me a cassette loaded with some really
cool home recordings he had done (playing everything and nicely) but it perished in my car
stereo.
I also flew out to L.A. to audition for White Zombie in…1994? Spent an hour
jamming with them at their studio after they blew up post-Beavis and Butthead. I was friends
with Rob’s former art college roommate Mark Matcho. When Rob called and said, “Our
drummer Phil was late to our Platinum status celebration gig because he was in South

Central L.A. scoring crack so we fired him. Know
any drummers?” And Mark said, “Well, yes. I do…”
I had no money to move to L.A., wanted to bring my
then girlfriend with me, and was really just NOT the
guy for the gig interpersonally.
Back to family life and the post 9-11, post-
STD life 2005 to present: I got into cover bands after
that, going to the highest bidder and a rather
established agency, all the while running a recording
studio in Hoboken, NJ.
Eventually I was losing money on the studio
and out doing 160+ shows a year with the cover
band. I just didn’t have any time in the studio. The
rent was an albatross and I really wanted to spend
time with my daughter.
Come January 2011. I played my last gig with
the cover band New Year’s Eve 2010-2011. I had
just gotten divorced, was establishing a new career
outside of music, and found myself driving 4 hours
each way to play gigs that were only providing half
the take home after expenses. I was toast. Game
over. DONE.
Later that year I was gifted a set of paint
brushes by a co-worker as part of a Christmas
exchange and decided to paint in my hiatus from
music. That was life changing and has consumed me
since. The weirdest thing happened though. If I
didn’t see music as color and shapes to begin with
(whether it was literally chord shapes and diagrams
on a guitar or lines up and down the neck…textures
and environments from signal processing in
modulation, reverbs, and delays) playing in the
abstract painting world totally took me off further
into that direction with “music composition”.
WHEN YOU LOOK BACK ON YOUR
TIME ON THE DRUM STOOL OF SOME
OF THE MOST EXCITING BANDS OUT
OF THE EIGHTIES SCENE, HOW DO YOU
FEEL. DO YOU MISS IT?
MANY THANKS TO EVERYONE THAT TOOK PART IN
GRENADE!
AND YOU GUYS FOR READING.
AND ALWAYS AIM YOUR ANGER AT THE PEOPLE THAT
CREATED WAR AND GREED, NOT THE PEOPLE THAT ARE
TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IT !
I’m not sentimental about anything. Am I
proud to have been part of a scene however far down
on the food chain as th’ Inbred were versus Black
Flag, the Circle Jerks, Husker Du, Minor Threat, X,
The Big Boys, Government Issue, Bad Brains? Hell
yeah. It was something so organic that it defies
description. Something that will never happen again!
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