summer 11 / 24:2 - Grand Canyon River Guides

Joan Goldwater with boatman Fred Eiseman, Mexican Hat
Expeditions at around Badger Creek Rapids, Colorado River.
NAU.PH.2004.8.2.17b.2 Margaret Eiseman Collection
r. turner: How did you transfer from Georgie to
Mexican Hat?
maGGie eiseman: We went by, driving along and past
Gay’s house, and here were all those folks out in the
yard. So we stopped to talk to Gay, and Fred asked if he
could be a boatman and work for Gay, and Gay said yes.
That was in ’58. In ’59, we worked for Gay, to ’69.
fred eiseman: I remember before that I had heard
of Norman Nevills and actually wrote him a letter and
asked him about joining his expedition. I don’t even
have the letter anymore. I knew that his headquarters
were at Mexican Hat, and we had been down the river,
down Glen Canyon. And so while we happened to be
passing through Mexican Hat, we just stopped by, and
there were Gay and Joan [Nevills—then Staveley]…
Our first trip with Gay…
maGGie eiseman: 1959.
fred eiseman: That was down Glen Canyon, yes.
maGGie eiseman: And then we ran with Gay until
1969. After that, we had those little dories.
fred eiseman: I think the motivation was—well,
there were probably several. Gay was short on boatmen,
number one; and number two, I was feeling that
maybe there’s some better way to do all of this. Instead
of have one oar and pray, maybe I would like to have
some control over wherever I go. (steiGer: Actually
have both oars!) Yeah. So I think the combination…I
didn’t have to ask Gay very hard to get a job. He knew
I had been with Georgie. He had kind of a miscellaneous
collection of boatmen for him anyway, and I
was miscellaneous too. There was a kid who lived in
Blanding, Utah, and Kenneth Ross’ son from Mexican
Hat—Don Ross. One year there were a couple of
kids from Flagstaff. So these were not high-powered
page 40
Barry Goldwater and his radio at Kwagunt Rapids camp, 1965.
NAU.PH.2004.8.2.6.7 Margaret Eiseman Collection
boatmen with many years of experience, they were just
people who had some free time, and who were strong
enough to power a couple of oars. I didn’t have to take
any tests or anything, and didn’t have to work very
hard.
steiGer: Did you guys always go together? Maggie,
you came on all the trips too?
fred eiseman: Oh yes. We did most of the cooking.
steiGer: Ah-ha, which I’m sure helped to keep you
guys coming back?
fred eiseman: Yes, it was a lot of work. Especially
I remember the year we took Barry Goldwater down
the river, and (sigh) to cook fried chicken in a wok
that big, which I had, I supplied it, over a wood fire,
is not very easy when you’re doing it all by yourself,
and when the temperature is about ninety degrees. I
remember I used to be so exhausted and hot from the
cooking fire, that I just had to jump in the river and
cool off. It was a lot of work!
steiGer: How was it going down with Senator
Goldwater?
fred eiseman: He had just lost the presidential election.
It was the year afterward. He had been through
this national campaign and lost to Lyndon Johnson,
and this was the year he decided to go [again]. I
drove Gay’s truck and trailer up to Cliff Dwellers, and
there sat a white-haired guy with glasses. I got out of
the truck and he came over and said, “Hi, I’m Barry
Goldwater.” That was our first meeting. And he and
his two sons and his daughter and son-in-law all came.
But he never traveled in our boat. He always went with
Gay or with one of the other boatmen. But of course
we got to know him rather well, and we were invited
to his house a couple of times for a reception for river
grand canyon river guides