See full text of memoir - Brookens Library

University of Illinois at Springfield
Norris L. Brookens Library
Archives/Special Collections
Albert Morris Memoir
M831. Morris, Albert (1911-1992)
Interview and memoir
2 tapes, 120 mins., 60 pp.
ILLINOIS COAL: THE LEGACY OF AN INDUSTRIAL SOCIETY
Morris, coal miner, discusses experiences as a miner and state mining inspector;
origin of the Progressive Miners of America his service as vice-president of the local
union; Christmas disaster at Orient #2 at West Frankfort in 1951; and gangster
activities during the 1930's.
Interview by Kevin Corley, 1985
OPEN
See collateral file: photocopy of book Our Christmas Disaster by C. Edwin Hair
Archives/Special Collections LIB 144
University of Illinois at Springfield
One University Plaza, MS BRK 140
Springfield IL 62703-5407
© 1985, University of Illinois Board of Trustees

Preface
This mnuscxipt is the product of a tape recorded interview conducted by
Kevin Corley for a special project , "I1 lhois Coal : The Legacy of an
Industrial Society." The project ms sponsored by the Illinois State
Historical Society and funded in part by the Illinois Jlumanities &mil
and the National EM-nt for the Jkmadties. kdditional support canae
frm the Oral Xstory Office of Fangaron State University. Joyce fisher
transcribed the tapes and Susan Jones edited the transcript.
Mr. Albert Howard Fbrris was born rn M.~.~hakimk, Iowa on July 2, 1911.
He grew up near Bmton, Iom until his family wed to Sawyerville. He
began wrk in Number Two Sawyemille Superior Coal Company on September
6, 1928 delivering materials on the nightshift. Ekom 1939 to 1946 he
worked as tracklayer, timbering, coupling cars and haulage. He was also
vice-president of the local. In 1946 he bet- form of the mine until
1948 nhen be becam state mine inspector and also served on the mine
rescue team until his retirarent in 1975.
Readers of the oral history mir should bear in mind that it is a
transcript of the spoh mrd, and that the intervie~r, narrator and
editor sought to preserve the informal, conversational style that is
inherent in such historical sources. Sangarmn State University and the
Illinois State Historical Library are not responsible for the factual
accuracy of the mir, nor for views apressed therein; these are for
the reader to judge.
The manuscript may be read, quoted and cited tieely. It may not be
reproduced in *ole or in part by any m s , electronic or mhanical,
without permission in writing kam the Oral History Office, Sanganon
State Wiversity , Springfield, Illinois, 62708.

Table of Contents
Family mstory ......................... 1
Mr . Pbrris kters the Mine ................... 7
Won Problem ......................... 12
The Compznists ......................... 15
AlCapone ............................ 16
Early Days of the Progressives ................. 21
The Mlkeytown Caravan ..................... 22
lbre Family History ....................... 23
The Board of Education ..................... 32
Mr . Battuello .......................... 33
Ebotl egging ...........................
35
Benldinthe1930s ....................... 36
Forming the Progressives .................... 39
Mr . brris ' Work Record 44
- me &aundhoq..........................
45
rIhe Mine wars .......................... 47
Wilsorrville Sit-bun Strike ................... 49
John L . Lewis .......................... 50
&isas Disaster. 1951 .................... 51

Albert krris, July 23, 1985, Taylorville, Illinois.
Kevin Corley , Intewie~r
Q: Mr. mrris, wld you please state your £dl -2
A: Albert H. lbrris.
Q: &tts the "H" stand for
.
Q: b t
was the time and place of your birth
A: 1 ws born on July the second, 1911 in bhakinock, Iowa.
Q: All right.
A: After that coal camp was closed dawn, the mine closed there, we awed
to Fluxton, Iowa.
Q: Okay.
A: B-U-X-T-0-N, Buxton, Iowa.
Q: How old =re ycu tjnen you wed to Eluxton
A: I was about, I wuld say, six years old.
Q: h t
do you r m e r about Whakinock
A: I don' t ranember anything about Whakinock but I do Wucton, Iowa
because there ms a dmle lnmch of mines a r d there and there ms about
10,000 population. I wuld say about 90 percent of them were colored
people. Old rran Euxton, he imported them from dom south and everythhg
for those coal mines. They wrked in those coal mines all those a r d
there. At one time it was dangerous to be down there, samebody ws
getting killed every night dawn there. (laughter)
Q: my did he import them, cheaper labor or . . .
A: Yes, that ws it. They had a carrpany store there, that was the old
tim. With the campany store there, they didn't get any mney. I can
r d r later when my dad wrked rq+t with them. They Ere all good
woxkrs ad everything. My dad said they =re good people, but he said
they just didn' t get nothing. He said he felt sorry for them a lot of
t h s . One time there one of those colored he ws wrking with, he said

Albert Pbrris 2
he wuld like to have about $10 for Christmas cash. Ply dad said, 'You go
do= to that cmpany store." He said, "You see that shotgun aver there"
An old Winchester panp gun. He said, 'You get that gun. I ' 11 pay. " I
think it cost about m t y saxe dollars at that tire, and he give him ten
dollars. lyr sister still has that gun.
Q: Oh, really,
A: He paid $10 for that gun. Right now it's mrth some mney.
Q: I bet it is.
A: It's one of those solid barrels. It's not even a take down.
Q: Did you live in a corrrpany house back then
A: Oh, yes. All the my in Muchakincock. And in Won, Iowa, that was
the last place. Then in Buxton, Iowa my dad got a little farm, about 80
acres, and then m w ed out. It msn't uver a mile and a half Eran
Buxton on the farm. He farmed and also mrked in the mine.
Q: How old m ld you have been then
A: When t \ ~ med there, I ms about seven years old. I& wasn't in
Won only £or about a year and then from there m wed out there on
the farm, and I vas about seven years old.
Q: ks he still coal mining at that time
A: Oh, yes, he ms still coal mining.
Q: He also f ad
A: He also fad, yes. That ms during the war the, that was the
first Mrld W.
Q: I see. What ms your father's full rime
A: Steve krris. Let's see, I don't remember his middle name. (laughter)
Q: That's okay. We mb.ght get it later. You might have it written d m
s~where.
A: Yes. I don't ranember his middle name.
Q: Wkat v m your mther's name
A: Anna.
Q: bhat was her maiden rime

Albert &mis 3
Q: Okay.
A: That Bugas fmily was sunem. Her fixst cousin, John Bugas, at
one th he was the president of the Ford Wtor Campany. It was the time
when Ford hd the second runoff with that Italian lady.
Q: Oh, really!
A: Yes. He was gone there for a while d then Jack took over. His
narne ms Jack Eugas. He just died a couple years ago. That was my
mther's d e n name.
Q: okay.
A: Yes. He got there through a good my, too. Wst he mnt to college,
then he mt to Stan£ord University. I guess as a lawyer or solrrething.
I don' t know h t he mnt thraugh, ht anyvay, he ms at Nonue , Alaska.
He was head of the FBI there, ad then he mved to Detroit. Old Henry
Ford was losing about a million dollars in parts mney . 'Ilhey didn' t know
where it ms going and Bennett ms his partsnran at that t* aver there
and Jack exposed him. J3e finally got a job at the Ford Eibtor Campany.
(laughter)
Q: How many brothers and sisters do you have
A: Had faur: brothers and one sister. Six of us, and one sister that
died when an infant at birth.
Q: All right. Wheve Rxe you located in your family Were you oldest,
youngest
A: ell, I'm the oldest boy of the family. sister is older than I.
She lives in Staunton, and my tw youngest brothers, Walter and Carl,
died. FJalter was mrking in JKmber Ten. &I the way going to wrk one
mming , he got killed going to the mine. He lived in Springfield.
Q: How many of you brothers ere in coal mining also
Q: k of them.
A: Ulter and Elmer. Elmr wrked out in a mine in Wymdng.
Q: YOU say yaur father was in coal mining, was your grandfather by any
chance
A: Well, no, my grandfather wasn' t in mining, kt back in the old country,
my dad told me a lot of tinaes, he used to be one of those. He used to
drive coaches. Coachmen I guesss they called them.
Q: Yes.

Albert brris 4
A: He used to for same big shots over there, you how, that's h t he
did practically all of his life. Of course, that little farm, they
always had a little bit of ground. Wer there, they had opal mines and
he wrkd in the mine aver there in Slavakia one tim. W told me that.
Q: Okay. So yous arcestors are kom Sluvakia
A: Yes, Slovakia.
Q: Okay. &at did yaul: parents or gradparents tell you about back in
Europe, what it was like Any stories handed dom to you about your
grand Eather
A: Qh, there was a lot of stories, ht I jut don't ramher too rmch,
you how, they vas different. They talk about a lot of things.
Q: So did your father came wer here fcan Slovakia
A: Yes.
Q: hhat age was he do you think
A: Swenteen years old. He left there because he a s going to have to
go into the army over there. So they all left, you know.
Q: Yes.
A: He had a trade, he was a shoemaker mre or less. He knew how to sew,
in the later years, he used to sole all our shoes.
Q: Yes. So did he carne wew by himself then, your £ather
A: No. He care wer with another fellow, he and another fellow. This
other fellow, they Ere neighbors and they both more or less got away
fran there, so they came over here.
Q: Yes.
A: J3e wentually lived not too far £ran, ell, he did there in Benld,
Illbis .
Q: Yes.
A: %is fellow he corn over with.
Q: Wny did they come to this area
A: bhm they first came here, they cam to Pennsylvania. Seems like
everybody cam to Pennsylvania, that's where the coal mines -re.
Q: Yes.
A: Then frm Pennsylvania, he cane to Hamilton, Iowa. That coal mining
aver there, that low coal ard everything that wasn't too good of a coal

Albert brris 5
aver there. Of course, the Northestern Railroad was the one vho had the
coal mines over there, and that's where he wrked, for the Northmstern
Railroad. Then *en the coal mines wmt dcm aver there, these four
mines here around Benld, they're in Benld, Gillespie, Wilsonville, and
Eagerville, they Ere Northvestern mines too. So that's where he cam to
those mines there. Jle mrked at Nuder Tb in Sawyemille for Superior
Coal Campany.
Q: Yes.
A: IVrmber Two mine in Sawyerville.
Q: All right:. my did your father CODE over here to get into coal
mining Was there a reason for it, or did he . . .
A: Mines mt down over there and then he c o over ~ here to get a job,
and he got a job.
Q: He just had same skill in coal mining
A: Oh, yes. J3e wis a coal miner for fifty years or more. Yes, I how
he lms.
Q: Yes.
A : He ' s been in coal min3mg for fifty years.
Q: Tell me mre about your father.
A: He always liked to hunt a lot, that's one thing I rawrber. He
msn't rruch of an athlete or anything. He didn't play any baseball or
anything that I can rder. 'Ihe only thing he did, he did a lot of
gardening. I don' t lonaw what. they do there, they graft fruit trees. On
this one tree there was three different kinds of fruit on one tree, and
he ms gocd at that. I don't how how he did it, but: just one branch
aver here and one branch aver there. (laughter)
Q: Yes.
A: And he was good at prdening. That was his hobby more or less. Even
just before he died, he always had a good garden.
Q: Yes. Tell DE about your mther.
A: My rmther came here frm Sluvakia. She had an uncle, Andy Bagas, my
great uncle, that ' s this Jack Bugas ' Eather, he was in h@mhg. 'Ihat is
where my mther cam fran, she was only about sixteen years old &en she
came here. She came to Wyoming and my great uncle at that time was
running a hotel in Rock Springs, Wyoming. She c m there and helped out.
She learned to talk, write, read and everything. k mtd to send her
to school, but she didn't go. She was very nusically inclined, she could
listen to rmsic and tell you whether the rhythms right or not. bhen
my sister ws taking lessons in piano and I can waTlBnber if she didn't

Albert Morris 6
hit a certain note, she m ld notice that right now, you how, she herself
didn't play it but she could tell.
Q: Yes.
A: She could read, write and everything, you bow. k11, my dd never
cauld read. He could write but he never could read very rmch. He never
went to school, but my mther could. She was pretty good.
Q: Lhat nationality WE your mother
A: Saw, Slwak.
Q: kw did thy came together, lib coming frm the same area
A: 'Ihey hew each other aver there in the old country.
Q: Yes.
A: In Kosice, Slovakia.
Q: I see.
A: Yes. Then he was going with sotre other lady in Iowa and he caae to
his brother's place in Iowa. His brother ws here before him. The
brot-her ' s wife, she didn' t like this mmn he ms going with, so she kind
of separated them. So he left IOWA and mt to Wyoming. He mrked out
there in the mines in Wyoming for a couple of years or so. That's where
he got mrried, but he c e on back to Iowa after he got married. Just
out of spite mre or less. Yes.
Q: (lau&hter) Sounds like you know a lot about your family. Is there a
certain reason for that Did your family sit a rd and tell you stories
about...
A: ell, I didn' t so msch hear than from my Eamily , but when I went to
visit same of the friends and eve-,
they tiould tell me all about,
you know, I still go to Iowa now and then. This lady that my dad was
going with later years she mid, of course. Hes husband, he mt
berserk and he finally did, then she was left with three kids. There
was a boarder that used to board--he got than together again. So then
she married again. His mne was Popson. She married, and then she had
children with him.
Q: HOW do yau spell that, Popson
A: P-0-P-S-0-N. They got together and they mrried . 'ken in later
years he died, this Popson died, and then my mther died early. She was
only forty scane years old. She died in 1933. 1 r d r I was only
nineteen years old.
Q: How did she die

Albert brris 7
A: k11, she had a tmmr and those days, they dSdn' t know &ether it was
cmw or what it was. Utchfield Hospital, the Seiler brothers, they
Ere the surgeons there and they ere good surgeons. They operated on
her ad a year later, I guess it must have been malignant, and she died.
Q: I see.
A: She died in 1933. I can remember my dad going back to Iowa once in a
while. His old girlfried WG a widow over there, I know they got together
one tk, but it was just too late. (lawter)
Q: Yes. lib Ere you closer to, your mther or yous: father
A: Oh, I was always closer to my mother hen she was living. Of course,
when my mther died, my dad and I =re together. He got me a job at the
coal mine. See, I started wrk.ing in the coal mine when I was sixteen
years old.
A: I started in the mine when I was sixteen years old.
Q: h t
rrdne was that
A: IVlmber Tm , Sawyerville, Superior Coal Campany.
Q: Okay.
A: %t was at Sawyerville, Illinois.
Q: tihat ws your job when yau first started there
A: k11, I got a job on the night shift delivering material. At that
time, they =re still hand loading ad black powder and everything. I
used to deliver powder and drive a mle. I used to drive that old mle
out, the fastest mle in the mine. I drove a lot of rmles, yes.
Q: What year d d
A: In 1928. September the 26th.
Q: Okay.
that have been when you started
A: Or September 6. My sister started teach* school. She was already
out of high school in 1928, and she started teaching school right out of
h@ school. She started teaching grade school in Wilsonville, Illinois,
and I can rerrwnberr that year. I know exactly what she got, she got $728
for teaching school. At that time, that ws the salary for the whole
year*
A: I made mre than that in the coal mine, of course. kt w h mre,
but I did beat her in salary. I remanber that because I started on the

Albert bmis 8
old Jacksonville scale. Salary was $7.50 a day for canpany wrk. Of
course, hand loading, I think they got about ninety-three cents a ton.
Q: Yes.
A: They by all their equipmt and everything, Wer, all the
tools and everything. They furnished all their am for thmselves.
Q: Yes,
A: Of course, if you mrked hard and everything and you loadd a lot of
coal, you could & yourself fran twlve to fifteen dollars a day, and
that was pretty gad wages.
Q: Yes.
A: That was above the $7.50 the company men got. Of course, you had all
that apeme that you . . .
Q: Yes. Did you have to buy your stxzff from the company store
A: No, no. There was no company store here. The campany store was left
back there in Iowa. I remember that old company store back there.
Q: Yes.
A: Just & colored people had the company stare, they had to buy everything
there. The whites didn't though.
Q: a, they didn't
A: k, no. That was the funny thing about it, because I know my dad
bought all of his . . . Tnat was the cheapest place to get everything was
to 930 to the campany store. I can raudxr him going there during the
First Mxld EJar and getting a hundred pound sack of sugar. You know, on
the sly. (laughter) (tape stopped)
Q: Before I turned off the recorder, you Ere talking about your first
mining experiences. Yau said you were in hand loading
A: They =re had loading at that time. Of course, I msn't hand loading.
Q: You handled the rule a little bit though, wight
A: Well, I delivered material on the secod shift. I was on the second
shift. They mine only hoisted coal one shift at that the, then the
othex shift, all they did ms deliver mterial and get everything ready
for the next day.
Q: Yes.
A: kt later then, this rmltiple shift C~IE in.

Albert Pbrris 9
Q: So describe to me exactly what you did.
A: k delivered material, it 'd be loaded on top during the day. Day
shift muld load all the material, evexybody wuld order their props and
ties ard all their material they needed, then that night re hoistd it
dom below. tk mld take it from the bottm with a mtor . The only
place yau had a mtor was fran the bottm to a certain place inside the
we. You could only go so far and then from there on, e used to have
to take a mule and deliver the mterial with the mle. That vas pretty
rough, especially &en you had rails to deliver. You had a chain there
ard you had to do all that spragging yourself, throwing sprags in the
wheels ad everything. It ms dangerous wxk.
Q: Yes. &at m the danger to it
A: There =re so many mules, they got killed just from these cars getting
away horn the rails. be tim the rail ran thraugh the rmle and killed
him.
Q: So the rail was on the car and it just slid d m the track
A: Well, yes, because the mle didn't get out of the my. They wmt on
through. Didn't get there in time to sprag the car or anything, to put
it on you =re pullhg, yau didn't have anything solid. Just a chain
there, they called the tail chain.
Q: Did many men get killed doing that
A: Oh, yes. There -re a lot of accidents. That s e d lib at that
time they =re mre interested about whether you killed a rmle or not,
became they couldn't replace a mle so wll.
Q: Oh, really1
A: Yes. Anytime there a s an accident some man or somthing , if there
was a mle driver in with them, they m ld always holler first a d say,
"How's the mle" (lau&ter) They =re mre interested in the mle than
they ere the mn. (lau&ter)
Q: How did the rm~ react to that Did they strike at all, have wildcat
strikes aver that time
A: They had wildcat strikes and everything, but I mean they had their
place. I just can't describe it. They had god unions at that time
because I kww my dad ws telling TIE those colored people viere pretty
good union m. He r d r s the president of the local there said when
they wld start the meting, they d d have their old .38. That's the
they mld put down on the desk there. He said, 'Wow the
meeting wi 1 cane to order." (laughter)
9
Q: The union mn said that.
A: Yes. The president of the local, he'd have the .38 there and that
wuld be his gavel, said the meeting wuld come to order. I guess it
m1d too. (laughter)

Albert Morris 10
Q: I'll bet it wld. Ibw, did that happen in Iowa
A: In Iowa, yes. I reumber my dad telling me. I can remember later
years, after we ms ~KI Illinois I wnt back there to visit and this
fellow's name ms Dave Yancey. Jde stayed there, he had a little farm and
I writ to visit him. He was the president of the local. He was one of
those color& boys that ws pretty vie11 educated.
Q: Yes. Tell TIE mre about your early errperiences. How long wre you
in this job, the transportation of the materials
A: 01 the ni&t shift Eor I muld say allmst eleven years, during that
t h , I on the second shift. I worked for a year or SO, because I
justshad a little over a year of high school, I &it high school. In
fact, I got sick there for about a year and then I finally just got out
of high school altogether. Then, after I was wrking on the second shift
in the mine, I went back to hi& school and I did finally get my high
school diploma frm Benld High School years later. But I went back and
mrked in the mine on night shift and vent to school and played on the
Coalminer ' s Team.
Q: Oh, really
A: Yes. Same thing at kstville that R used to play. I thought w had
a good team that one year, the year of 1930-1931.
Q: What sport was that
A: Football.
Q: Football.
A: h d we had a team. We never lost a game until e wnt to Westville,
and they beat us mty-ei&t to nothing.
Q: Yes.
A: There m s a lot of coal miners over there too, in Westville, Illinois.
Q: (laughter) Yes. Jd.0~ old =re you when you mt back to hi& school
again
A: Well, let's see, dm I ent back to school, I was 19 years old.
Nineteen years old and I playd that one year. The next year, yau could
still play when you was 20, but &en you was 21, you couldn't play it
then. They W l y got that age dom to 18.
Q: All right. So you played high school football until you =re 20 or
21.
A: Until I was 20, yes.
Q: Yes.

Albert %mis 11
A: Dm I finally got into it, I wanted to take typing and shorthand,
ad r~ d the principal got into it so I quit again. I didn't finish
high school. I quit and had SOIE mre hi& school to go. So in later
years I finally graduated. But I mt back and took the GED test and got
my diploma.
Q: Yes. Okay, what year Ere you &en you quit the second time You
how, when you had the trouble with the principal and you quit.
A: I was about 20 years old then.
Q: bhat grade FJDUld YOU have been, about a junior
A: Junior, yes. I muld have been a junior in high school.
Q: Okay.
A: bbuld have been a junior that year he said, 'You got to wait until
your senior year" . . .
Q: Okay.
A: . . . in order to take those subjects that I wanted to take.
Q: Yes. All right, let me go back real quick and just get a track of
*ere you =re. You started your mining experience, you said, in Sawyerville
A: Sawyerville, yes.
Q: Okay, and you =re eleven years doing this one night shift
A: Night shift.
Q: Okay. Sawyerville is located where now
A: Sawyewille is just about a mile sauth of Benld.
Q: Okay, and that' s when you wre going to Benld High School
A: Yes.
Q: And where =re you living then
A: In Sawyerville.
Q: Okay.
A: We wld mlk to school and walk back a lot of times. hhen the
uther ws good, ddn't even take your lunch. Jwt run back during
the dinner hour, eat and run back. See, that ms a mile there and a mile
back. You got good ercise a11 the time. (laughter)
Q: About this time in the 1930's they started having union problms.

Albert Pbrr is 12
A: Yes. The first one -Ir2ley called it the save the union. I guess when
they mt on strike then, ie =re nine mnths, at least nine mnths.
That ms in 1929, that bas just a year after I started in the mine. So I
left there ad wt to Chicago, I got a job in Clhicago. I stayed there
in Chicago and wrked several places. I ended up on State Street. There
was an Orange Crush Company on BlacWlawk and State Street there and I
wrked there until my dad said they ere going to start mrking again.
So I left and cam on back hone, scmethhg about coal mining so I cam
back. I was in mago and wnt right by that garage *ere the night
before. . . . (tape stopped) At that tim car *els would go over, the
top doors wld open up and you go into the garage (tape stopped) and ve
wuld just jump up see these doors fly open. The next day is when they
had that St. Valentine's Day Massacre. I was there.
Q: Is that right
A: I was in Chicago at the time, only lived about a little over a block
from there.
Q: Yes. Did you hear the shots or . . .
A: I heard a lot of cornrotion, ahlances and everything else, and
sirens going on. I didn't how until after I found out what it was all
about. kt I lived in an aparmt not very far away from there at the
time.
Q: Jkw old -re you *en you Ere in aicago
A: In mago, let's see, I ws only about 17 years old.
Q: Yes.
A: Seventeen years old, because I can ramher in that sane apartment
there ws a policman that mrked on the ni&t shift and he said, "I'll
get you a job on the police force." I was just young at that time. He
used to tell me his experiemes, you bow, when sombody mld have a
shootout with somebody (laughter) and I said, 'No, I don't want a job on
the police force."
Q: Yes.
A: Yes. Then he told rre, 'Ym how, I'll get you a god job." He said,
'There's a hotel"--I don't r d r the name of the hotel &re all the
stars used to come there in Wago--he said, "I'll get you a job as a
bellhop. They don't pay very mh, $15 a mek, but you can make yourself
$100 a week. You have your om place, they give yau a roam and you have
all the things, whatever you mnt, that you can sell, you know." J3e
said, 'That's *re you make your mney," but I wnt aver there ta get
the job and I just missed it by fifteen minutes, or I muld've probably
stayed in Chicago.
Q: Yes. %at made you go to Chicago in the Erst place

Albert Elorris 13
A: k11: there was no wrk around Sawyerville. They =re on strike, so
Imt.. .
Q: Why mago though, why not sollyzhere else
A: There Ere a lot of people, there =re sarne frids I knew up there,
they =re frm Benld and wnt wer there too. mere was this kid from
Gillespie, him and I mt up there together, we =re friends.
Q: bhat was your friend's m, do you remember
A: b&es. Yes. He was a little Scotch kid, you huw.
Q: Yes.
A: h y
l&ghes they called him.
That's all I can remember.
Q: Ard how long did you stay in Chicago then
A: I guess I was there only abut six or seven mnths , that' s about all.
Q: That's when you caae back
A: %en I came back, yes.
Q: Okay, When you said sumthing about save the union a file ago, &t
Ere they trying to do, save the W
A: Yes. They said, "Save the union" because at that time there was
samething going on, non-union and everything else, d that ' s what it ' s
all about. Just like m, p u got sare non-union mines now. At that
th, they just going to do away with the union. That's what that
slogan "Save the Union" see, and then later years that was just another
couple rmre years, that's when the Progressives started.
Q: Okay.
A: I don't how what it was all about that, but I r d r that's the
one that you get away from tbe United Mine Wrker because they said they
was no good or everything like that. But that's dm the Progressives
started there.
Q: Yes. Okay, go ahead.
A: I can remamber that because I had a lot to do with that, I helped on
that. I was in on quite a bit of that.
Q: Tell me about it.
A: Well, it was all right, the intention, it vas really good, been all
right. khen I started, the intent ws really good Ixlt later on, there
was sane got in there. In fact, there w s just a lot of c d s t s d m
there. They got into it, especially one guy I rfmember is Jack Bathlelo.
He's dead now. I wrkd with him d m in the mine. In fact, I rode

Albert Morris 14
trips for him in later years, and I happened to be wrking for hjm when
that Spanish Revolution was going on. There was sms £ram right in the
mine wat mer there to help them . . .
Q: Yes.
A: . . . to fight with the Carmunists. And he used to read that Camnsnist
and I said, "Jack, h t are you reading" I said, '% got Anrerican books
here," and I said, 'how we you going to get people together." He said,
"Starve them." That ws their idea. He said, "If you starve them you
can control than. " That was his idea, and I 'm telling you, I can r d r
that's when he ws president of that local. The whole thing, I mean the
Progressive miners at one time, then they finally got him out. They
could see what he ns doing, yau know. Actually, that Progressive, the
intent was good kt then it is actually conmolled by the (3xrmmist for
aaile there, And then they W l y got them all aut of there again and
it just wasn't set then.
Q: Yes.
A: In the first place, the nau~ the Progressives if they muld have had
it the Wted Mine Workers of Illinois, ad got away frcan the big one
they would have probably made it, but they didn' t .
Q: Well, originally they =re the reorganized United Mim Wrkers
A: Yes. It was just reorganized. They had a different naw, they =re
just Wtal Mine Workers. That's what started them, the United Mine
bbrkers under the old Jacksonville scale, and then later years after that
one local. There was four mines and there ws about 1600 n m that wrked
in all four mines at that om time. And they had the amalgaraated local,
where they WE all in one local and then later I could see what ws going
on. In £act, I was vice-president of the local under a guy and this guy
couldn't ever handle them. So I had to take over and act as president.
I was ready to fight him. I was young then. It didn't make any difference,
ht I could see what wm going on. Those guys muld sit there a d filibuster
and everything else until late in the night and the old Eellaws that used
to wrk in the mhe mld go ham. They mld look around and if they
had their ammt of men, then they muld have a motion on the table. And
boy, they couM get it ri&t. That's when later years I mld tell them,
say, "Boys, w ain't do- no god. We should go back and get gack in
the United Mine brkers ." I thoq&t they =re going to hang me.
Q: bhat year was that yau said that
A: That a s later years, That ws , oh, let's see. I mld say that in
the 1940ts, during the Mr in the 1940's you. see. I said, %'re not
going to do any good.'' I said, 'Ny dad has mrkad in the mines now for
so many years ." I said, "He'll never get a pension'', and he never did
get a pension either. Mter they wrked in the mine for fifty years and
no pension.
Q: Because he joined the Progressives

Albert Morris 15
A: Well, they didn' t have a pension. tbw, if he muld have been with
the Wted Mine Workers. They didn't h e any money, just a smll union.
They just couldn't have a pension. You had to have your own pension,
like you do an*re else.
Q: You had to fix it yourself
A: Yes. Set it up yourself with some insurance compmy.
Q: Well, tell me mre about the Camrunists at that time, dmt evidence
was there that they =re active
A: Wll, I how one evidence there for sure, because one night they come
throu& our tom. We'd be setting up here a bunch of us kids, we Ere
just young, in our early -ties. You'd see a car came through there,
throw out a bunch of leaflets and = used to how just about who they
=re, see, and then you could pick up the leaflets and see what they was
talking about. 'Ihat ' s *t they used to do. At one tin^ aver there, the
cl-arch, the Catholic priest wer there in Benld , Father Goff , I never
will forget him. He ms in church talking about, you how, they =re
against religion. Jack Battuello one time had a meeting in Gillespie . I
never will forget this mting, didn't have no meting hall. He said,
'We got a -11 place here and there isn' t no big place around here. " T3e
said, 'kt 11 get one dom there" and he pointed to the church, then I
hew he =S no good right k. In Benld there Father used to talk about
the Comrxmists w e taking hold and they threw a bath under where he was
sleeping one wt. Knocked him aut, it didn't hurt him, but it just
tore the wall up a d hocked hirn out.
Q: Yes.
A: They did that b Benld. Right now there's a lot of Russian people in
M d . Russian, lots of Russian people in Wd.
Q: Is that *at those people -re back then Were they from Russia
A: Yes. &re =re a lot of Russian people there. Well, they weren't
all Russian, there ms SOLE Italians just as bad. Jack Battuello was
Italian, he was the leader. (laughs)
Q: And they =re pshing for catamism
A: Oh, yes. That's all I heard when I m s younger.
Q: Were mst of these people foreigners then
A: Yes. There wre a lot of foreigners.
Q: lhat =re pushing it
A: Yes. Benld ms nothing but foreigners, mstly foreigners.
Q: Wre there many foreigners that viere against the c d s t
there
mxrenmt

Albert Morris 16
A: Oh, there wre a lot, there =re just as many against it. In fact,
mxe than there wis fox it. Oh, yes. That was som place there. Then
finally in later years, Al Capone got his hold in Benld. 'Ihat was the
place w used to have the four mines then. bk used to hunt around there
quite a bit ad different places off in the country there. Then pretty
soon, they set out a bunch of signs an3 T~R didn't how why ie couldn't go
in there hunting, you how. We =re just Ws. Then later vie found aut
they put a dmle bunch of vats in there, it just looked like a big tipple
lk another coal mine, they made alcohol.
Q: Oh, yes
A: &, yes. They had bootleg alcohol there. I'll never forget a little
guy there kom Sawyemille. He ran the tavern there, his nar~ was Barney
Chilero. Jk ran the tavern and they had him over there. He was the head
guy, m called it Nmber Five. There =re fau: mines ad that was NLanbex
Eve Mine, he was the head guy over there. Ike took the rap for the &ole
thing, and I ' 11 never forget when he took the rap they put him in the
county jail. I don't know how long he served there, it ms a year or
two. I don't how what he said in the jail, lmt he used to have his om
key, open up and go to the show and come back. (laughter)
Q: Get in and out
A: Yes. He used to have his own key at the jail, they used to Wd him
about that. That ws Al Capone's gang, because I can remaber they used
to call it the Terrace IEall. It's the Co1liseut-n Ballroom down there now,
but it used to be the Terrace Hall, and during the dames and everything,
tbse jpys wuld come over. If you had a tie on, scrmebody muld cane
aver there and cut it off. You didn't dare than. Oh, those Italian
guys. (la~1ghs)
Q: my mild they cut your tie off, just to be onery
A: Just to be onery, that's all. See what you're going to say.
A: His henr=lmen around there they h ew they just about controlled Benld
for a year or so there.
Q: Did Capone himself ever cane to the town
A: Well, I don't howuhether he ever cam over there or not, lmt I knew
a Eellow there that had a lot to do with him. In fact, you how, the
Godfather, I how he ms the Godfather there in Benld. His name was Sam
October and he didn' t even have his citizenship papers. I went hunting
with him and another fellow frm Sawyemille there ad they took him out
hunting. Sam was with US at this tb, this Sam October was with us out
hunting, d a guy care aver there, he was wanting to chase us out and WE
had permission. But all he mted was som mney. J3e said, "Give EE a
dollar a piece ad you guys can go ahead and hunt." This other guy said,
To, ='re not going to give ycru anything." T3e got rough. This other
guy ms going to take him to Carlinville to jail. This little Italian

Albert Morris 17
said, "If I'm wing to be taken to jail you go in my car .'I Pretty soon
they got into it: ard this guy took his hat off and threw it. He said,
'You cane across that line," he said, that guy left because he msn't
about to expose this. IEe was with Sam, you b, if they took him there,
he didn' t have .no citizenship papers, didn't have a license or anything.
Q: Yes.
A: So that was the end of that, buddy.
Q: Yes.
A: By that time 1 was gone. I was . . . (laughter)
Q: Yes.
A: I saw what was go- on and I took off.
Q: What was the nam of that bar that the guy had You said he had a
tmern down there.
A: In Sawyerville, vie used to call it the Comer Tavern.
Q: Comer Tavern.
A: Corner Tavern, yes. We used to call that, yes.
Q: And that vas Capone's
A: k. Zhe guy that run that tavern there ms a guy . . .
Q: Lb took the fall for Cape
A: ell, he just happened to run that tavern.
Q: Yes.
A: M course, his wife ws mre the tavern xumzer than anything else.
Q: Yes.
A: Yes. Well, there was sane times there.
Q: Tell me mre about it.
. because that was our hangout. That's where w used to play cards
because w had a lot of time. The mines didnt t wrk too rwch, you how.
FJe hd a lot of th, w just hung out: ad played cards there and just
had a lot of Eun in our younger days. Oh, yes, that was some place
there, and of course, he had a son that ws a pretty good bozr. Kid
Irish he MS.
A: Ch, I could just sit here the rest of the day and tell you about . .

Albert Mrris
Q: Now, who's he
A: KFd Irish.
Q: Or who had the son.
A : This Barney Qlilero , and the reason his nam ms Kid Irish, there was
an old BamRy Flaherty just lived across the street aver there. He said,
'We just rime you Kid Irish" because he was Irish. (laughs)
Q: Yes.
A: And he was a pretty god boxer. IEe had a b h of sons and daughters
too this tavernkeeper. In fact, I don't think they ever gat married. I
bow they didn't get married because, his wife's nane ws Mary and after
they had about six or seven kids, he said, 'kry, don't you think we
better get married" (laughter) I'll never forget that. Yes, he said
to her, "Don't you think ve better get married"
Q: After six or seven Ms.
A: After six or seven Ws , yes. Yes, he ws something. He ms just a
little bitty Italian, but he ws somthing, I tell you. Oh, yes, and
then in that little tom, w had a baseball team. I can remember the
tea. We had sorne good baseball team in there and everything. There
was WIE pretty good ball players. In fact, I myself wnt out and played.
I later played out with minor leagues and everything, different places.
TZlen in 1936 I went down with the Giants in training c q in Pensacola
[Florida], see. I used to take layoffs during the sum~~rtim, that's the
reason I didn't mrk in the mine in the sumtzyzr. I was always takhg
layoffs but that ms the last year. Xhe mine mnager told me, said,
'Now, this year either you're going one way or another." He said, 'We're
not going to give you any mre layoffs." So I mt dow there with the
Giants and they told n-~
that I would never & a big leaguer. So then I
caw back ad stayed right at the coal me, from there on, I ws in the
coal mines.
Q: Lhy did yau stay in coal rrdruing all that t h
A: I don't know. 'Ihe coal mining wii pretty we11 paid then. Tnat
didn't pay anymwe than anyhere else it was pretty good wages. And the
reason, too, I mrked aver there before I mt in the mine. I was just
young. I wrked on that hard road and that' s hard wrk, you know. In
the sunshine, =ther, different things. Naw, in the mine, you just got
that one Ud of =thex, you how. That old tapratwe bemen 65 and
70 degrees. It's air conditioned just about like it is right here.
Q: Yes.
A: And that's ay your coal miners are so efficient in warking because,
you how, that temperature, at that tim, really do good mrk at that
tempera- and that's *y coal rmlners used to wrk hard. But they had
the temperatures ri&t there to do it with,

Albert Morris 19
Q: Yes.
A: Of course, sometimes the air msn't quite so good back in the other
days. But today, they got god air .
Q: Okay. All right, tell ICE some mre. I think there's a lot of stories
there. (laughter)
A: There's so many I can't think of all of than. 'Ihere's so m y that I
can tell you about ad before I talk about this, on these different
disasters of fires and everything that I have been on and of course,
duwing my coal mining days I ms on the rescue team for 30 years, on the
mine rescue team. So I wnt through a lot of, you know, different things.
I can tell you on all these, but this is the one disaster that I want you
to tab this with you, and later on ~'11 talk on this.
Q: All right.
A: This is during the Quistmastime. I was d m in the mine that the,
during. . .
Q: This says "Our Christmas Disaster ."
A: I vas dom Chrisms We, I m s in the mine. I was there for 36
hours before I got out of the mine during this disaster.
Q: Is this a pamphlet on the explanation of h t
A: It tells t-he whole thing.
Q: Who ms killed and . . .
happened
A: berm. It tells the *ole thhg. X s is the disaster right
there, yes.
Q: Okay. &at year w s the disaster
Q: Okay. In a t
coal mine
A: In Orient Ncnnber T b at West Frankfort, Illinois. It's all in
there, you'll see there. There's mre there than I can talk about,
there' s where you' 11 see my nae in there and John L. Lewis and all.
Q: Yes.
A: It's all in there.
Q: All right. Did you help to write this or . . .
A: No, no.

Albert Morris 20 ~
Q: Okay.
A: bb. The guy's rime is on there. He . . .
Q: All right.
A: Then my boy got this one. I'll let you have this one here. He got
this out: of the Peabody Peo le, this was in the Peabod People. There's
some things in there he +a mnt . He happened to 4 re it because he's down
there witG Peabody, anyhow, he happed- to see this and he saw my name,
so he wrote this off.
Q: I see.
A: Peabod People used to have a magazine that said "Peabody People."
hat --& s am r one.
Q: All right.
A: I'm going to let you have those and you can . . .
Q: I might even make a copy of than and give than back to you. Okay.
A11 rqght , w ' 11 look those wer .
A: Yes.
Q: All right.
A: You can do that. You can have those and . . .
Q: Let's stop here just a second. (tape stopped) All right, before w
turned the tape off, you had been talking a little about Capone's gumwn
in Bedd. Did they play any role at all in mining
A : No. They didn ' t play no role in mining at a1 1, aept that they had
those taverns that WS run there and evexythhg. There vas a lot of
these waren in there they had. . . .
Q: Prostitution
A: Ch, yes. There was a lot of it in Eknld at that time. 'Ihey ere
there all the time. That was sething at that tire over there. (laughs)
Q: Yes.
A: And, of course, those people that Ere running those taverns, there
ms S~IE kickback there too, yau how.
Q: Yes.
A: M course, at that time, it was bootlegging days and they bought
werythFng right from there and so that's where they was making their
wney . 'Ihat ' s the reason they Ere there, they wre kind of protecting.
( laughs )

Albert Morris 21
Q: W t
about the sheriff
A: I r d r them saying abut the sheriff and this is the truth. The
sheriff said, "All I wmt is four years of being sheriff in Macoupin
County," he said. Then he had enaugh mne for the rest of his days.
(laughs) You how, there ms a lot of kic Lack.
Q: What was his name, do you r d r
A: Henry was one I can remaher.
Q: Yes.
A: Yes. I think he ws £ran Virden at that time. Oh, there was wre
because about every fau: years they =re changing because they'd only be
in there four years. I don't r d r all the ones during that th.
Q: I mi&t be wrong, but was Frank Fries a sheriff
A: Frank Fries was one of than, correct, yes. He was also in coal
mining, you know. He had a brother that was a form there. In fact,
he was the rule boss &at they called there at that time at Sawyemille
mine. That was his brother then, kankie Fries ws. He was the sheriff
and he ws alwys in politics. Yes, he ms.
Q: MS he there during the Capone days
A: Yes. He was right there. Ihat was right. That s where he . . .
Q: Was he on the take or was he against than, do you how
A: Jk was on the take with them. (laughs)
Q: Yes.
A: At that time, you had to be with those boys. If you wren't on the
Yau ddn't last long, I'll tell you. (laughs)
Q: Okay. All right, tell rn about the early days with the Progressives,
haw they got started.
A: MU, it was during that first strike. I was telling you about "Save
the Union". There WAS saolethbg going on, so they just figured there was
same way. 'Ihey *re against John L. Lmis , he had a lot of hench. In
other words, they figured John L. Lewis just like A1 Capone, you know. 1
mean, they figured he was the sane way, and then they ere wanting to
make their OW union. That's where it all started.
Q: Yes.
A: Because frcan John L. Lewis, once he was president, they never did
elect anybody else. Everytb they had an election, he ms elected, to
me it ms just like dictatorshi 'Ihat' s h t they said. 'Ihey
P
couldn't
get nobody else in there. That s what caused the Progressives to organize,
you see.

Albert Fbrris 22
Q: Yes.
A: They wanted to get m y tian the d on that way.
Q: I see.
A: And that's where it all started. That: was it.
Q: All wight. Were you in the klkeytom Caravan
A: ks. I was in that mlkeytawn caravan all the my down through there
until they stopped us.
Q: Yes.
A: And I'll never forget that because I happened to be in the cax,
driving the car, and this guy care up and had that gun right in my bad.
It loold like one of these stove pipes, I'll tell you! (laughs)
Q: Yes.
A: He said, 'Turn asaurd and go back." I '11 never forget that because
it ws already late in the evening. k had to stop scumhere, so VE
stopped at Tilden, Illinois. I nwer forgot. I go through there now
with my boys, dow there I have to go through Tilden all of the time. I
think about that. There ws a baseball diamnd there and PE all stopped
there, cars and everythimg. Stayed over ni@t, everybody slept where
they mted to. FJe wt around and bought chickens and everything else,
had a big nulligan there in that ballpark. EXrerybody, you haw, was
quite a wys em *re that klkeytown ws. It ms on the way back h
when everybody stopped there ad stayed all ni&t. Then e care on back
the next day.
Q: So that ms on the wy back home
Q: Were you there &en they ambushed the cars
A: I msn't in the front line. There was jut, oh, I w ld say they
mxen' t even a half a mile ahead of me.
Q: Yes.
A: I wasn't in the front line, you how. Ekeryboay wis trying to get
out, I was glad I was back there because I m ld have got in right on all
of it. I could hear the shooting and everything. Yes, they stopped
everybody ard txlmed them around and away R wt.
Q: Is that *ere yau got turned arourd
A: Yes.

Albert Morris 23
Q: Okay, and the guy just cane up and pit: a gun to your head
A: Yes anl said, "You turn around and go back." ht else =re you
go* to do (hU&s)
Q: Yes, Right. You were driving yaur car
A: Yes, I was driving my car.
Q: How many people =re with yau in a car
A: Well, we had four, there =re three other people. I don't r d r
their mm~s or an-, but I know there =re four. My dad was with E.
Q: Oh.
A: Hems on the front seat and m had tm other guys. Ican't ranember
dm they wre. That's been toa long ago.
Q: Yes. About how m y
cars Ere in that caravan
A: Oh, gee, I don't how. There ws a line. I couldn't say. I mldn't
how -tly, but: there m s an awful line, I'll tell you that.
Q: How many miles
A: Oh, I wuld say, talking about miles, I 'd say dlmost tm ndles of
cars just abaut. That's a pretty good caravan.
Q: Yes.
A: About tw miles of cars. Of course, they're apart you bow,
Q: E&t. Okay.
A: Because a lot of thaa didn't ever stop at that ballpark there muldn't
have been enough roan for than. Whoever wanted to stay overnight: was
having mre or less h. bk =re all young and everything.
of Side me, Tape One
Q: Mr. frbrris, the last the w talked, w talked a little bit about
your family. bhat do you how about your fdly's sumarrye
A: My dad's rime +as Maras, M-A-R-A-S, and vhen he came here £ram Faxope
ard got his citizen papers, they asked him his name. He said Mas, and
they just spelled it bbrris , that's the way it's been from there on.
Morris, M-O-R-R-1-S . Actually, it ' s M-A-R-A-S .
Q: Did they ask him then to Americanize it, or did he just decide to do
it on his om

Albert frbrris 24
A: No. He didn' t hricanize it at all, they did. They just put it
dom that way, because he didn't bow whether they spelled it ri&t or
not. It's been tbrris ever since then. lhen he used to get papers in on
different things that a Maras on there, M-A-R-A-S, for a long the.
Ebt the lbrris was on it and finally he wmt into brris.
Q: Okay. a0 yau laow anything abaut the nane Pbrris , it ' s origin
Where it came from
A: No. It1 s way back there. I nwer did got try to get the family tree
or anything though. I don't how where that caue frm.
Q: So it's just kind of an accident that it underwnt changes.
A: Yes. That was there I guess km their ancestors. They just lived
right there in that one c d t y for years and years, and it wuld
probably go my back there. I never did go back to try to fid out a
family aee.
Q: Okay. Are there any traditional first names or middle nzaxles or
nicknames in your: family
A: Well, there =re several nickrimes. I had several nicknames. I
r& they used to call me %ppy" at one time. I heard that naroe
when I first started wrking in the coal mines. I started mrkFng in the
coal mine, and then I had to clean up on top, that ms the one I ms
telling yau about, the secord shift, and e wed to ccs~le on top to clean
up. They Ere had loading and they spilled a lot of coal, and VE used
to have to clean up and then haul the coal aver into the boiler rocan. I
had a ale aver there, and it ms so cold in the wintertime. So you'd
have yau. soft hat and your carbide lamp, then over the top of that I 'd
put on a stockirg cap. Just looked like old Happy Hoaligan, yar h.
Q: Oh, really.
A: That's &ere I got the ME. I got that &hame. And then in later
years when I w s playing baseball, you how, I used to play ball. I was
pretty god. Sam guy said 'Wlo's that guy wer there on shortstop" My
dad ms sitting ri&t close, and he said, 'I'hat's my Albie. " My nau~ is
Albert, and that' s where the name come in. He didn't say, 'That' s my
Albert," he said, 'That's my Albie."
Q: So a t
A: Myalbie.
Q: Myalbie.
did they call you then
A: Ch, yes. I'd go around that: with Myalbie, Oh, another one. Not too
long ago, I took a guy dom there ard w dked around the Seven F'hgers.
There's a golf course there at Stamton, there at Seven Fingers. There's
a place there where you could ride into with a golf cart where you could
get a drink. I walked in there with this fellow, a d smebody hollered,
'TWk an up." I ws telling this guy how I got that name. I ms playing

Albert Morris 25
basketball one time. We Ere playing Fn Girard, and I ' 11 never forget, I
was rackmg them up. All at once som py hollered 'Rack em up!" I ms
really racking than up. That stayed with m for a long time. So I had
several nichams myself.
Q: That's interesting.
A: If you want to how about nicknames, my wife's got a book written on
nicas for her hometom and everything. It's up at Wshington, D .C.
AAUW Library. She's got a regular book on nFcha~s for her family, I
man her h t o m and everything.
Q: Your wife has that
A: Yes. She wrote that little book. 1'11 give it to you latex. She' 11
let you have that.
Q: Were nicbmes cotrmn then
A: Oh, yes. Nichmes wre really cmn, ard she's got than all. You
wldn't know wZlat they'd man, sore of them, because som of them ms in
the Croatian language, saaae of the nickmes. She's got than all down,
ad sans of the kricanized and everything else, you know.
Q: Yes. That muld be interesting. Your wife is Croatian
A: Croatian, yes. That's Yugoslav.
Q: W t . Being from the same area that your fdly came from in Europe,
hcrw did you come to met hew
A: Well, just because she lived at %it@ City and it ws only a couple
of miles away £ran there. You how how you go krm tom to tom. I met
her at a baseball dance in Sawyerville. There ws one girl giving a
party, ad actually she ms giving it for me. She wanted to be with me.
We ~ ~ to nHillsboro t Lake on this party, and I was dancing with everybody
d that's where I saw her a d started to date her.
Q: &, I see.
A : I was just having a god tiroe and I mt her, and that ' s &ere it a1 1
started.
Q: How old wre you then
A: Me
Q: Yes.
A: kt's see. I was about 28 years old. k, I wasn't that old. No, I
was about 26 or 27 years old.
Q: Okay. How old were you &en yau got raarried k

Albert Wrris 26
A: mty-nine.
Q: Twznty-nine. I don't how if w did . . .
A: Tbnty-eight and a half actually.
Q: All right. ht's your wife's £dl name and maiden mate I don't
know if w had that before.
A: No, m didn' t have her's. Anna Marie 2-U-P-S-I-C-H, Zupsich.
Q: Zupsich.
Q: All right. And how old is she men was she born, her date, do you
how
A: Eb, I don't s d r . I think it was in 1922. She's 63 now. She'll
be 64 on her next birthday, January 29.
Q: Okay. Well, tell m mre about your mther's cousin, Jack Bugas. He
m.s president of Ford Pbtor Company you had mtioned. Was he hired by
hxy Ford to investigate the parts stealing in his factory in Detroit
A: Yes. He cam from Nome, Alaska. That's where he started with the
FBI. 'Ihat's where he started his mrk, in h, Alaska. Then they mx~ed
him to be the head of the FBI in Detroit. That's h Henry Ford told
mwhat was going On.
Q: So did Ford hire him, or was he mrking through the FBI
A: He was wrking through the FBI.
Q: &, I see.
A: To find out what: was going on because there w s a million dollars
missing and he didn't how where it w s going to. So he investigated.
Being head of the FBI, of course he had his m n investigate to find out
who it was. It wis Henry Ford's old mn. Henry Ford got this Bennett .
. .
Q: What was his first name
A: I don't how at Bennett's first ms, but his last name ms
Wtt. But anyway, Heslry Ford had to fitxi men. Always thmght the nm
Ere pretty good, he got t-heol out of prison. This Bennett ms a thief in
the first place, I don't why he ws in, but. he got him out of prison.
Old Henry Ford used to hire these men because they were pretty god.
Bennett w in the penitentiary when he hired him, see.
Q: I see.

Albert Morris 27
A: So I guess Jack, after he Eaund out that, he kind of loow into it.
Then finally that's when J h q Ford hired him after this. He said, "Care
on, you can mrk for me," because he sure vasntt getting rmch with the
FBI Well, you lazaw haw the gwemt didn't pay as mch so he probably
got mre, and then later on he wnt on up.
Q: Yes. I see.
A: Just before he died, he had three ranches, I know he had a form on
each ranch in Wymaimg, and he had a ham about forty miles, Grosse Point,
Michigan. My uncle John Bugas, same name as his ; that WE my mother's
brother, he told me, because he writ up there. I never did go visit him
there. I visited him at his other place hen he ms right in tom, in
Detroit. He bought his om house and had it built out there. I can't
think of the nam right m, but myway, it's aut about forty miles. My
uncle said that's an atomic b. J3e kilt about a $750,000 Imm out
there. Tnat ' s here he lived all the the. Where he died anyw~y. He
had an operation, I don't how what it ms, bypass or s-thing, and he
never did cmve out of it.
Q: Okay.
A: He just died about tw or three years ago.
Q: Okay. Can you sort out the traditions in yaur current family, according
to the branches of the larger family £ram which they came In other
wrds, does the werall tradition of a specific grandparent seem to
daminate Like traditions such as Chris-s and birrnays and things
like that
A: How do you man dominate
Q: Do the things that you do on Quisbnas, like your dinners and your
get togethers ad maybe family reunions and things . . .
A: hk have it here every year.
Q: Now, is that £ran the frbrris family mostly
A: Yes, mostly £cam the Pbrris side. I don't how about her, I guess
her fdly did too, I don't how. I guess they got together on Christms.
But that's just the tradition. Usually on &isms, they're all here.
Q: I see,
A: If yau ctlrrre here at kisbnastine, you'll see the whole bunch here.
There's 24 just in my om imnediate family, counting the inlaws.
Q: Is that ldd of the big event of the year for your family
A: Yes. %y all come here. This is where VE have this, right here.
Q: Right here.

Albert Morris 28
A: Right here.
Q: kll, you've got a nice big house for it.
A: Well, it's not big. This is as big as it is. It ain't so big, but
you can see the whole thing. It 's only txenty this my and let's see I
guess thirty or forty this way, that's all. There used to be a furnace
right here, a big coal furnace, and this used to be the coal shed. I
just took we- out, see. All I got is electrical now.
Q: Was kistxaas always been kind of the mjor holiday for your fdly
A: 'Ihat's the only one. We used to have Easter too, &st of the time
w'd have misbnas and Easter here, but naw w just have Christmas. k
usually go s h r e
QL Mother' s Day, w usually go somewhere or sornethhg like that. But
&ism is the day.
else, to one of the boy's or the girl ' s , for Easter.
Q: ke there certain traditions and thhgs your parent's brought aver
£roan Slovakia
A: Eb, there's no certain traditions. Sane of the food once in a Aile
that I still have her make cares frm there.
Q: Oh, yes What's that
A : Well, one is a poppy seed roll. Poppy seed , that ' s one thing I can
r d r . They used to make those poppy seed rolls, I used to like that.
Tnat w s mre or less just like in the spring of the year when they h e
this Boch beer:. Well, this ms supposed to be the sam thing for mistmas,
the poppy seeds. In other mrds, for your health or -thing, I don't
know.
Q: And yau have that on Christmas
A: Yes, I always get IIE a poppy seed roll, that's for sure.
Q: Mll, tell me more. What other foods and things
A: No, no other Ms. There's no certain foods that E have on Chrisms
here.
Q: You said you'd investigated a little bit about your fdly fram
people in Iowa. They had told you srme things but it sounds like your
£artily has kind of an oral tradition. Co you tell your children about
your parents Have pu told than about their lives
A: & children didn't have a gramhuther un either side. Her mther
died in 1933 at age 52. They viere young, they tare only in their forties.
My mother did in 1933. See, the kids didn't b e no grandma, but they
had tw paradpas. Zhat ' s all they hew is grandpas, they didn't how no
grandma

Albert krris 29
Q: Okay. I see.
A: So that was it on that side. lhey probably heard as wh £ram their
grandpa's as what I could tell you, you how a t I m. I didn't tell
them anything.
Q: You told me a little bit about your parents, how they came to met
and mry. Did they date when they Ere back in Slovakia
A: Fb, not as I haw of.
Q: Just =re acquaintances
A: Just acquaintances, like neighbors. I don't how, wll, they could
have, but I don't know. They never did mtion it or anything, no.
A: I don't haw whether they datd back there or not, I guess tmy did.
It's just like an-re else. Whether they got together on picnics or
fdly get togethers, I guess, or samething like that, I don't know about
it.
Q: Did the people that came wer from Slwakia attend a certain church
Did they have a certain religion
A: Well, right there here my dad, right in that vicinity, there was tcm
different: ones. There vas the Lutherans arad there was the Catholics.
%at ws the only tw religions there. They got toge&r because there
wsn't too nuch difference in that, you know, bemen the tm.
Q: Yes. bhich did he go to
A: J3e mt to the Catholic. He carae mer here with a guy that was a
Lutheran and they =re good friends.
Q: Okay. Was that his religion back in the old country
A: Yes. Catholic religion.
Q: By the way, did your father ever remarry after your mther died
A: No, my dad never did w-ry. No, no, no.
Q: I leww you said that saneone was trying to put him together with one
of his old girlfriends.
A: Well, no. He did himself . . .
Q: Oh, he did.
A: He himself, you how. After her bband died, he dram aver there.
J3e wuld've married her just for the campanionship in the last of their
years. It wasn't over three or four years later that he died. But you

Albert knis 30
how F3hat I man, she a s up there just almost his age, too. They wren't
too far apart. He just told her that she could c m over and live with
him. But she said, 'k. I've got my M l y over here .in Iowa and you've
got your fdly over there. " That just didn't mrk.
Q: bhn you ere a child, FJho handled the mney in your Emily
A: My dad. I'll tell you that's for sure.
Q: He did.
A: I felt sorry for my mrm. My mam actually didn' t get ahold of any
mney until after I started wrking ard ary sister started wrkimg. Then
we just gave my man everything, because m hew how our dad was. I don' t
how if that ws their tradition in the old country, but they were the
dominant of everything. They took control of everything. I heard a lot
of people that used to go, you hw, the vmm wld go together and go
up to shop, and they said my poor nmn muldn't have any mney to even do
any shopping. You how what I man, the ohrs -Id have it because
they controlled the rmney , but my mrm, no.
Q: Yes. Well, do you control the mney in your fdly , or does your
wife do it
A: You know, you believe it or not, that's stayed right with nre and my
wife cashed one of my checks in all my life.
Q: Yes. So you . . .
A: Vhen she started teaching, for all those years I never paid no attention
to hers at all. I don't how vhat she . . .
Q: You wtch your mney and she witches hers
A: That's right.
Q: 'Ihat' s interesting. bhat differences did your father find in I\merican
coal mines versus those in Slovakia
A: Well, there viere no coal mines wer there, see. He didn't wrk in
the coal mines. He didn't kmw anything about coal mining until he got
here.
Q: I see.
opal mines.
A: He wrked sonwhere. He said there ws s m I don1 t
how what: he did over there, ht kind of mrk opal mines Ere or anything.
I guess it ws urdergrd too, but: it ms different altogether than coal
mining.
Q: Okay. So you say there wre opal rrdnes wer there, but he didn't
lark in them.

Albert Elorris 31
A: He mrked in them. Yes, he mrked in them.
Q: mat did he do
A: I don't know, he never did say. I don't bow ht kind of wrk,
whehr he wrked down below or dmt, kt he wrked around the opal mines
and he hew about them. He talked about one once in awhile. But he used
to go with his dad quite a few t h s to these rich people that had msions
and everything. His dad was a coacham for than, drive them around, you
how. I heard my dad say a lot of tks , he mld take him along because
he'd shine shoes for him and everything else. He said they even had wine
cellars and his dad mld always go down and get wine. So he sent him a
lot of times, said a lot of times he tasted that wine. (laughs) He said
satirnes he tasted too nuch of that wine. (laughter) He ms just a
kid. But he told E about that, he used to go with his dad. Then he
used to go with his dad, he said, to go hunting wild boars . That was the
goal wer there, wild boars. If you didn't get up a tree and if you
didn't get up a good tree the old boar wld chew that tree dotm. (laughs)
Q: Yes. I've heard they're danger-.
A: Yes. But he said he used to go and then they'd turn the dogs loose.
He used to tell me about that, not too mh. But I guess that ms something.
mting wild boars.
Q: ' Yes. Wnat else do you remember about your parents
A: Well, I 've just abaut told you everything about my parents, but my
great-grandpa--see, my rmther came here to her uncle, which was my seat-uncle,
in Wyoming. I s t e l l pu abut that, about Andy J3ugas. He cam
here in the 1880's and then he cane to Wydng, I guess, that's all I
r d r . He cam ri&t to Wyoming. I don't know who tm there that he
knew, anpy, he as self-educated. He didn't go to any school, unless
it w correspondence school or samething like that. He ms in the h e
of Representatives in the state of Wyoming. I don't how &ether he was
a senator or not, but his picture's up there with that little old round
black hat they had. I ' 11 never forget it, because I saw his picture up
there, yau haw, one of those old timzrs. I guess he didn't get married
until he was about 36 and his wife ms only about 16. He raised eight
kids, I think, six boys and tm girls, and every one of thaa they all had
a college education. Every one of them.
Q: Yes.
A: I didn't finish telling you about all of our kids, Of course, the
oldest girl, she's not finished her degree. She's going to college now.
She' s going to finish and get her degree. But my wife, I mid her
right out of high school, d then after the kids grew up, she started
taking classes and she graduated fran Millikin. Of course, she took
correspondence frm all over, and she just got her college degree about
24 years ago, sanething like that. After the kids grew up, she started
going to school. She wntd to be a teacher, and she did.
Q: I see. That's your wife.

Albert brris 32
A: Yes, that's my wife.
Q: Okay.
A: So she just got her college degree about 24 years ago.
Q: Do you feel that your having completed high school helped you to get
the jobs that you did and attain as uuch as you did
A: Oh, yes. They asked if you had a hi& school ducation, I hew that
was coming. I was on the high school board and I still wasn't gaduated.
I h ow they hew I sent: to school there for three years or so. Wlt I ms
on the high school board there at Benld for tcm terms. I guess I 'd h e
been on there for a long time, k t I had to leave there, so I decided . .
Q: You wxe on the high school Board of Education
A: Yes, high school Board of Education.
Q: And you hadn' t graduated yet, or you had graduated
A: No, not yet. No, I msn' t graduated, but I was on the high school
board. And the principal and I got into it over &re. I'll never
forget, one tinae the wages as coming up d E didn't have enough mney.
We didn't have any money. I said, 'Well, we could pay you mre, but
~'11 have to raise taxes ." I said, "It'll be up to the people if *'re
going to raise -s. It'll be up to them." He ws hollering about all
the wrk that: he does and the responsibilities that he's got, he should
hwe mre wges. I said, Well, 1 agree with you. But &ere are VE
going to get it" '!Well," he said, "I'd just as wll go back to just
regular teaching," he said, "all the responsiblity and I'm not getting
anything out of it." I said, 'U11, ~'11 just oblige you." That's when
they took him out and got another one and to this day, you how, he's
still living there, and he don't even say 'Ni" to me when I go by there.
Bertetti is his name. He lives right now in Mt. Clare, Illinois there,
right by that Number Three Nine.
Q: Bertetti, &at' s his first m ~
A: Well, I can't think of his first name now. Oh boy, I'm telling you.
The Bertetti brothers had an electrical place there in Eknld. But he's
still living, and I can't think of his first m.
Q: Did you have to run in an election for the school board
A: No, I didn't. There was a guy that w.s a janitor there, John Donnelly.
I'll never forget him. J3i.s rime was John Donnelly, ad he was a janitor.
He cam aver Era knld one tb, I ms rimrid then and I had tw children,
that was when I was already married and had tm children a d he came over
and said, '"You're going to rmn for hi& school board ." I said, "I am"
and he said, "Yes. Your going to run for high school board." So I said
it ms all ri@. I knew why he wanted UE to run, because I was a pretty
good fried of his and I went to school there. He knew me when I was

Albert Morris 33
playing football and all that stuff. So that's how I got to run. Albert
ktognolli, I'll never forget that. Nobody could beat him in votes in
Benld. mw, this is the honest to goodness fact, I don't think I got too
many votes in my hcmtotjn. You know how it is in your haretom, they're
all jealous. It's true jealousy that they won't give you the votes. But
in Benld, I think I ws the only one that ever beat him in the votes.
Beat Albert Bertoplli, *en it cme to that high school board. All the
people knew me pretty god you know, and everything, so I beat him out as
the vote getter there in Benld . I' 11 never forget that.
Q: Do you think yuu viere able to get all those votes because of your
achiev-t in sports
A: In sports, yes. Pbstly in sports, and in the big Cachnlic Church
there too. They saw KIE there all the tine, you how, and ever-.
Just like I told you, the mthers , they wed to always, there in Sawyerville ,
they used to lanow me pretty -11. They alwxys figured that I'd be a good
caWh hr their daughters, pu how.
Q: Wre you active in the church
A: Ch, yes. Yes. I was trustee of the church aver there at Ehld
during that time I was telling you about, when they ba&ed Father Goff .
. .
Q: Yes.
A: . . . *en the c d s t s came through there and bombed hlm.
Q: While you're on that, I had a question I wnted to ask you. I wanted
to how what you meant den you said that kttuello had pointed at the
church and said, "You have the meting there"
A: Yes, Just take it wer . In other mrds, that's ht he said, just
take aver the church, Oh, yes. That ms their idea.
Q: Was he against the church then
Q: Being c d s t
you mean
A: Well, no, being Italian. You hm, the backgraund of Italians,
they're Catholics ad then he ws just the opposite. Of course, he
didn' t go. I don' t think he wnt to anything.
Q: Do you think being a camunist twned him against the church a little
bit
A: Oh, yes. Yes.
Q: Tell rrre mre about Batteullo . W t
else do you know about him

Albert Wrris 34
A: Well, they fod out that he ms what he ms and they kicked him out
altogether, frm that Progressive miners. In later years, he mt to, I
don't how dmt tawn it ws wer there, and he run a tavern for a long
tb. Then he had a Local 50 for scrmethhg, they called it a ha1 50.
You krmw, he was always mtiq to be don 60mewhere, to get somthing
together. I don' t lam what they wire, so~thhg about construction or
m~thing. Wlt he ms always in scmthing.
Q: Yes. ht did they write on those leaflets that p said they threw
aut of the car
A: kll, sm-~ of them just had the meetings, "Caw to the meting" or
so~thing they're going to have. You haw, discuss certain things. I
don't remember just at.
Q: What organization ws it
A: It was no organization. It didn't say no organization, but it was
connected up with the Progressive miners. Progressives miners, or mybe
solaetime it was on relief in Cook County or so~thhg like that.
Q: Yes.
A: They had their M s
in a little bit of everything you how.
Q: What axe other things that the caamunists had their hands in
A: Well, just about anythhg they could. Wenever there was any trouble
at all, they mld be right there. That w their *le theory, you
bow, they could get in there there ms trouble. Or if there was no
trouble, they mld make trouble.
Q: Okay. Were they into illegal things like bootleggbg and gambling
A: No, no. That ms out of their . . .
Q: %t was somebody elses .
A: I was going to say that. Especially there in Benld, those Italians
there. They didn't get into any of that stuff.
Q: W11, tell re hut the friction betmen Eoueiprs in Benld in the
1930's. Did the foreigners, you how . . .
A: Were ms nwer no fxiction sed like. In fact, Benld had so many
different nationalities, a little bit of everything. Of course, Gillespie
was mre Scokh-Irish, aver there in Gillespie. There was a lot of
Scotch there in Gillespie. But Benld was a lot of Italians, Russians,
Croatians, Slwaks-just name it and they had a little bit of everything.
Q: Did they stay pretty rmch to thmselves
A: k. lhey used to have picnics. They got along so god. I don't
know, the people used to have good tlmes. There was never tm rmch

Albert Wrris 35
trouble, yau know, like you'd think with the different ethnic groups
wld be against each other. There msn't that m h friction.
Q: W t
about bootlegging raids You know, on stills.
A: Well, that ws later, you how, FBI, when Capone came in there. Lih
I told you, there ms that house of prostitution. There was just a lot
of than there, d that's =re it all cam in, see. Finally they just
got rid of that, the people just ddn't stand for that. 'Ihey couldn't
say nothing for a &ile there, when things =re rough. That's why they
were there, because they wre controlling wery-. Especially the
kfia bunch ms controlling it there for awhile. But after that, they
got them out of there and just done away with everything. Boy, they just
disappeared.
Q: k11, how did they get aut of there Did the FBI come in
A: Yes, the FBI came in. The law got a little better. The county law
got better. The sheriffs, they finally got thern out you know. They
wuldn't cooperate.
Q: W =re some of the better sheriffs that c- in Do you r-er
their nanrzs
A: Later years I don' t x d r too rmch, you how, who the better ones.
. . . I heard her causin, dm just died of cancer, he was the last sheriff
there right now. Richard Zarr , he ws my wife' s cawin. He just died,
and I don't know who took his place right now. kt he had been sheriff
but he died young. He ms only, I think, 52 when he died. He just did
three or fw mnths ago or so, Richard Zarr there, in Macoupin County.
Q: Tell me mre about Frank Fries.
A: I didn't laaw too rmch about Frank kies. I was young then, I didn't
pay too m h attention. I how that I've heard them say a lot of ths
that if they had four years of sheriff, that was enough. They'd be
pretty w11 heeled you how. That wis the camm thing there, and that's
about all I how. I how that there ms samething going on all the tim.
They =re getting their cut £ran a little bit of all this, mst of that
illegal stuff that ws going on, during the bootlegging days now. After
prohibition, you haw, then things changed there in Eknld altogether. I
was talking about *en it was still . . .
Q: Right. Until 1932.
A: Until 1932. After that that's when things started getting better.
In other mrds, there w s no mre of that going on there.
Q: Give me a little trip down through Benld . Describe it to me, dxit
it's like. *re do people live, where in Benld
A: Now or then

Albert Morris 36
Q: Well, back then in the 1930's.
A: It's just alwst the same, only better houses now. They've rebuilt
and there's soire nice places there now. But: it's just regular houses
like &y are anytJhere else. Of course, just a mile back there at Sawyewille,
that was a lot of coal camps. There vas a lot of other howes too, but
that was a regulax coal mining, you know, the coal mines had so m y
houses there they called it the patch. They wed to call it Patch.
A: Because it was just a patch of houses, see.
Q: What type of people lived there
A: The coal miners, it was all coal miners there. Ihey even had a
boarding howe there for awhile, but finally that got away.
Q: Was there a certain ethnic graup that made up that
A: No, no. There was a little bit of everthing. I r d r right there
in those cmpany bes
, ht they called the Patch, there was I muld
say at one tim about 20 houses there. Company houses, right at about 20
houses. A little of everything. I know, because ri&t next to us, Oscar
Anderson, he ms Swde. Then uver there IE had a guy that was Croatian
and he was married to an Italian muan. &re ms just a little bit of
everything. There ms so many dif fermt kinds, there ms no just one
certain bunch.
Q: Well, you how in a lot of the c d t i e s that ws 've studied, back
then they had like this mld be a French tow d there mld be mstly
French and Belgian people living there. There muld be maybe another
area of Italians, another area of the Fnglish or so~thiq.
A: 'Ihatwas in the bigger cities, but this was only 400 people at the
mst at one time. See this ws why I ms talking about Sawyemille.
Now, M d was a little bit like that. There ms a certain part of the
tom that was mre or less ms Italian, and another part of the town was
mre--but they got along together. Right wer there they got the city
park they called it, and they wed to have picnics. You how, maybe the
Croatians muld have a picnic, hich they will be this Way, a Croatian
picnic there in Benld this May, we're going. Then maybe the Italians
muld have their Italian-hexican day there. 'key have it there right
now. EXteryone gets together, it doesn't make any difference. You see
wexybody, different ones have their picnics and everybody shows up.
Q: So you're going this wekend you say to a Croatian . . .
A: Boatian picnic there. 'Ihat' s their annual picnic uver there. They
barbecue lambs and hogs and everything else. A hole bunch of then,
their big doings. Lambs especially, barbecuing lds.
Q: And they've had that every year

Albert Elorris 37
A: Wery year. Ebery yeax ever since I can rememher. Oh, it' s been for
years.
Q: Okay. At the end of our tape last time e e re done, you told
m a little bit about same of the problems betwen the foreigners, or
with the foreigners.
A: In vhat way
Q: Xn the coal mining industry, with the unions and . . .
A: Well, there msn't too mch. They mwked pretty mll together. Only
thing is, it msn't so rmch the language and the different people, you
how, different languages of the people, it was the camrmJnists in there
at that time. That ms during the time that they -re mre or less
organizing here in the United States. You r-r, that ms cmdng in
Q: Yes.
A: Just like, remember Budenz Do you remder him But
c d s t , then he finally got away frm it. NE! fourd out
weren't so rmch.
Q: Cb really Maere n s he frm
he was a great
that they
A: He's frm this cauntry. I m he ms the head of the
Party at one time, I think, around here. You know how they had the
Cammist Party around here. You don't see it that mch now, the (kmmnist
Party going, but at that time, they thought mybe they'd organize and
finally put a big hold in it. But they wer did get tw far.
Q: Okay. Let me ask you a couple of things from the last tape. What
job did you have in Chicago in 19292
A: Well, hen I first got there, there was a my contacted me, and I was
selling three different mgazines, The m ' s Horn w o n , Redbook,
and Collier's. That was on State S F e e m to ~ go out ~ m e
district manager. He'd take us in the mming and he'd set us at a
place, w 'd go £ran house to house. If you sold three, you ere doing
good, and 1 sold three easy, everyday just about for a ~ i l there. e W1t
how many doors you'd get slam& in your face everyday. (laughs)
Q: Yes.
A: You'd go from house to hause, at that time I think yau'd have to
collect a little aver a dollar. That was a lot of money at that th
w k there, that tas in 1929. You'd collect a dollar-sane frm than, and
then you'd say, 'Well, the district mmgw will c m back and vouch Em
this" and everything. But if you got that, if you gt wer four dollars
that day, that ms big mmy aver there. Then you'd meet the district
manager d e r e in a pool hall. That's where R wmld zneet after
everybody muld congregate. He'd have three or four guys with him, and
he was the head guy selling that day. But I just couldn't go that. I

Albert krris 38
stayed with that for ashile, kt I just couldn't go for that s ldng
doors in your face. So I got this job at this Orange Crush campany on
State Street. So I got amy fim ht. I'll never forget when I was
going to leave, he just talked me into it because I ws one of his good
salesmen. But it didn't bother me mh, but I did a pretty good job of
selling when I was young ad didn't give a dam. I did pretty good,
because I thought that ms pretty good mney at that time, you know.
Q: Yes.
A: And I playd a lot of baseball. I pitched a lot of games over there
in Chicago when I was just a kid. That's &re VE used to go, and boy,
I'll never forget. bery park in micago I figured I played on Aile I
ms there. I was just about seventeen or ei&teen years old then so I
played a lot of ball out there. We had a bunch that cane frcm around
here, that ws fram ard aur territory, araund Gillespie and Benld, and
we st together and got enough fox a ballteam up. A pretty good ballteam
up there. I don' t x d r , maybe w lost one or tm g-s , but I don' t
weer losing very many gares. I wed to do the pitching, I could
throw. Man, I wed to could throw like nobody's business, and R played
a lot of ball up there.
Q: So you =re mstly a pitcher
A: No, Mielder, I was mostly an Mielder. What they rerrmbered IIE in
my hwrretow as a shortstop, that ms the hardest position. Nobody mld
play that, and I could play at shortstop. M, if I 'd make one error,
I 'd get booed. Oh, m, I could've d e a million good plays. kt I
made everything look so easy, and if I made an error, man, they didn't
think I should ever, ever make an error dom there. (hater)
Q: Okay. So you were there for just about six mnths you say, in Qlicago.
A: In Wcago. Oh, a little mre than that. I 'd say about seven or
eight mnths I was there.
Q: And then how did you knm about caning back to the mine Your father
called you
A: Yes, my father called E. Or wrote a letter, had a letter written by
my sister. They =re going to start at a certajn tb, so you write
back. k e you're in the coal mine, I don't h h t there is to it,
kt coal mining just gets in your blood. I could probably have been
better off and wnt to sawthing else, you how ht I man, but I didn't.
I always came back to the coal mine, that's what happens. I've noticed
sane other people, pug guys, the same way. %y'd go s-where and
they just c o right ~ back to the coal mine. You can even talk to same of
than around here, scm~ of these that mrk.
Q: Right.
A: They like coal mining.

Albert Morris 39
Q: Yow story is kind of similiar to sot^ others I 've heard. People, in
1929 when the layoffs hit, they mt up to Chicago.
A: Chicago or Detroit, ow -place up there.
Q: Yes.
A: There m s a lot of wrk.
Q: I guess the three or four people I've talked to so far all said they
mt to Wag0 in 1929.
A: Yes. That was during . . .
Q: So you guys =re all there.
A: 'Ihat was during that nine mnth strike. That was the tine they =re
calling, I don't laww what it wxs all about, to save the union. I think
they =re trying to get away then at that the, you bow, and instead of
trying to get away they =re trying to save the United Mine Wrkers.
Zhat's &at it a s all about.
A: %en they finally, in later years, that's b Progressive came in.
They finally did get away firm it over there, just a certain part of it.
But in order to keep the Unitd Mine Wrkers here, John L. sent a lot of
his ~~ in here ad kept it going. (laughs)
Q: Yes. Well, tell UE mre about pur role in fodng the Progressives.
Think about back dwn it first got started, I guess right after the
Fhlkeytown caravan.
A: Well you see, you'd get elected in your m mine or samething, maybe
a pit cdttecmm or trustee or treasurer or same- like that. So
then you'd finally get into it, that's how I got into it. I was--what do
you call that now--I ms auditor for a long th. Auditing the books,
you see, ad I was right in on all that.
Q: All right, so when the Progressives first got started, where did they
first form Were you with than when they first fond
A: Yes. Right there in Gillespie. That's where they actually £on&
the raonber one local, they call that the nuher one local. It fond
right there in Gillespie.
Q: W e
did they meet in Gillespie
A: Well, there a hall, I can't think of the nam of the hall. It
was up above a bowling alley. I think it was right there about Bizentines,
they call it the Bizentines. I think that's where they mt the first
time. It was a hall upstairs there, that's &re w met. That's the
first place I can rfsnember,

Albert Elorris 40
Q: And do yau ramher d~en they first got the Progressive name Were
you there
A : I don' t how &o brought that IMUE up, but Joe Ozanic from bunt
Olive ms the first president, and I don't how dm cam up with the nanre
Progressive.
Q: Yes.
A: Ebt I can remember &en they was going up with fhe Progressive. I
don't haw, I mentioned, I said, 'Zet s progress. I don't know vh.ether
that's a pretty good rime, Progressive, but ='re going to progress."
Eut in later years, after I saw that E weren't do* too aruch progresshg,
I said VE ought to go back because, I said, these old nen that -re
getting old then, you how, like my dad and everything, these old thrs ,
they'll be out. 'Ihey wn't get a pension, which is exactly what happened.
But I thou&ht they Ere going to hang me when I said that. So that's
vhat happened.
Q: All rwt. So your first job then, &en they wre formed, was auditor.
A: That's one of the jobs I got, as auditor. You how, I was in with
them and in on the ~etings and everything. But they had these guys that
=re pretty good orators and I didn't get up and give no speeches or
anything. You had to be somebody that could really talk and say what
you--whether it ws true or not--but you could really give a god talk.
Q: Yes. So you kind of handled their mney Is that it, you mtcW
the mney
A: I watched the mney. I can r d r boy, a lot of things. I watched
that, audited it. After R come to the met@ when we'd audit the books
and get up, the four of us--let's see, there was one, tm, three, four of
us on the auditing. Three of us, there ass three of us. I can ramher
three of us on the auditing. These other ~KO guys all said, "You get up
and give the report on auditor." Che night E were with the treasurer
and it was ten cents VE was short on. YOU know, we stayed up just about
all ni t trying to find that ten cents. You just couldn't go, everybody
said, %ell, give a dime out of your pocket" to get it all to rark. No
sir, E had to f3.d it.
Q: You found it finally
A: Finally found where it was at. Yes, those books h& to be straight,
I'll tell you.
Q: Well, tell re more about the beginning of the Progressives.
A: Well, that ws it. Then they start4 going and from them on, after
Joe Ozanic got asmy from them, they elected . . . that's *en Battuello
catne in. That w s the start of the downfall of the Progressives, when
Jack Battuello got in there. I'll never forget that.

Albert brris 41
Q: Ibw did that happen
A: k11, because he figured he ms going to be just like John L. Lewis,
ym how. I man, once he got in there, he wsn't going to relinquish
anythmg at all, he was just going to be in there. I think he got elected
a couple of tinrzs or three tinres. But he didn't make it after they found
out a t he was going to do, they got next to him and then they got him
aut of there.
Q: What do you think his goals wre What was he trying to do
A: hen to the end, even when I saw him just before he died, he usd to
wear one of them old caps, you how, just like the fur caps, just like
commulists. I used to kid him about it. (laughs) He ms just cammist
all the way ~ough. TZzat was his go-round.
Q: Yes. When you said before that he made a cammt one time about
stanring. . .
A: &, I asked him that question, I said, ''You b, I know you were
writing to organize, but how are you going to organize the people together"
and everything.
Q: That was here in krica
A: Yes. I(l%ht here. I asked him, 'Now you 0% to get the people
How are you going to organize it" He said, !here's only one way," he
said, "and that's starve them." He said, 'Then you can do what you want
with them. h e you get them starved," he said, "get their bellies
hungry, youcando things with thn.'' Youbow, that was his theory. I
said, 'Well now, you're crazy."
Q: Yes.
A: kt he was rat in that wiy because I guess you could . . .
Q: Yes. So he mt get than into the Progressives, and then . . .
A: No, he wsn' t so m h that way. &11, they always wrked on certain,
you how, unions and stuff, best that was their thing, get in on this
union and everything else. That's just like right now, your mafia gets
in on unions atxi eve* *re they get their mney you see. That ' s
the whole thing, you see, because that's where your dues are caning in.
Q: Yes.
A: If you didn' t get any dues, you km, you've got to organize something
sondmre. Ebt it wsn' t so rmch that he ws going to organize the
Progressive Miners for that reason, but he just mted so he could get
som mney, ard then you know, the (lmmmist Party.
Q: I see, What was your role as vice-president of your local

Albert Morris 42
A: Well, just like a vice-president. %times the president couldn' t
control them and I 'd get up there and say, "Give m that gavel." I 'd
take care of it.
Q: Who was the president
A: Lhen I was the vice-president, he just died, Keck. SJas it Keck I
don't r e d-mt it ws. He just died not too long ago. I can't
think of his name now. No, Saunders. Not Saunders , but Zanders ,
Z-A-N-D-E-R-S, Zanders. Nick Zandexs ms the president of the local.
That: local there, that was four rrdnes together. At one time, there was
1600 ~llen there, but eventually after the mines mt mchanical, they laid
off a lot of men. There msn' t quite that m y En.
Q: Yes. FJizs he just not £orce£ul enough
A: No, he msn't forceful esuxlgh, no. But after that, that was my last
office job, as vice-president, and I ~ sn't ever going to run for any
president, and I just got awy from it altogether. I could see vhat was
going on, and I didn' t want to have anything to do with it.
Q: Yes. Did you ever help to organize a strike
A: No, no, no, no. In fact, they vas going to slow dom at the mine one
tim and I saw a t they was doing and I saw that the company mld have
a big case. They said at the meeting, I ms at the meeting, and they
said, '"We're just going to go down d wrk so rmch and do so rmch wrk,
ad everything's going to be lik m wis pulling so m y cars of coal. "
They was going to have a certain limit on cars of coal. k11, I got to
thinking to myself, and I was the only one. I was riding trips in that
one certain part of the mine. When w Ere marking them down, I marked
less you b. And so vie @led five more cars, mre than anybody else.
And oh boy, thy cane out ard everything and said, "Oh, you're a scab"
ard eve- else giving E hell. ''Well, I made a misizik in there."
'No, YaU didn't make no mistake. You just mted to do that. " They were
just abaut to shoot me then. Then finally when they cam to the trial
and everything else, they said, 'Mell, it ws organized that you was just
going to pctll so my. Wll, look at here, this territory didn't pull
any." That's lmw they tmn the case on that, over where I was at and I
hew that. They wn the case on that one . . .
Q: bhat do you man, the case What trial
A: They had a trial that these guys w s organized to slow than dorm at
the mine and everything, and they rere going to fire everybody, you how.
Q: So the cmrpany was accusing these guys of slowing down
A: Yes, that they viere just doing so mch wrk. They said, ''Look here."
He said, "You're wrong. Look here. They pulled mre out of this one."
That was the one that . . .
Q: The one that you filled out.

Albert brris 43
I
A: Ihat ' s w ight. I had that in my mind that there ~nas going to be
soxething like that. They men't smart enou& to hw that.
Q: Yes.
A: That's actually in the books down there too, samhere along there,
if they still got them, I don't how. But they wn their case, the union
wn their case on that om where I was just on account of that,
Q: What year w s that
A: That was, I think a x d 1932 or sathing like that, 1932 or 1933.
Q: All ri&t. Were ycnz Progressive then
A: a, that a s later years. I said 1932 or 1933, but that was later
Years- I don't rmmber just what year that ms. Zhilt closer to
1940 I think, way up there.
Q: Okay.
A: I don't remmber, but that w s later years because I was already on
day shik then. Yes, that tas around 1940 now. I remember that, about
1940.
Q: Now, *at years did you serve as vice-president of your local
A: Oh, that ws in about 1940. About that time, about 1940 it seems
like.
Q: W t
year did you get out of the W . . . or, back into the UMW
A: Well, I never did go back into the 'LEIW because I w s Progressive when
I got the job as State Inspector, see, I was one of the Progressive
Miners.
Q: I see. Okay.
A: 'Ihat' s just like a guy said, he said, '%re you are. You came to
this county from koupin County, and you came over here ad you're a
Replblican and you come to a Demcratic county," and he said, "you're
Progressive ad ynu carae into the United Mine brkers." I had the job
there d they just couldn' t urderstad how I could hold the job. But I
stayed with it all the way thraugh, they never did fire m.
Q: Yes. kt's skip throq$ youx wrk record here for just a second now.
You started in 1928 in the mine
A: Yes, 1928.
M of Side h, Tape One

Albert Morris 44
Q: Okay, before the tape ran out, you ere telling are your work record.
In 1928 yau began in transporting, materials . . .
A: btewials , delivering materials.
Q: . . . on night shift. That WAS for eleven years, so then in 1939,
yau d d have begun . . .
A: Going on day shift.
Q: Day shift.
A: ktually I r d r the first thing, I was helping the track layer.
That ws the first thing. They Ere laying track, then I finally betthe
hezd track layer. At that the, they =re still laying track. When
I mt an day shift, they had conveyors and t\~ had to lay track ard later
on then I guess timber. Now, I did a little bit of everything. I even
ms wrking on the bottam, coupling cars, They used to couple cars, and
I was mrking on the bottom, a little bit of everything. I finally
wrkd myself into haulage. That's where you end up. That's &re ve
ended up, in haulage, then from haulage to foreman.
Q: Okay. So, what year did you finally became a state mining inspector
A: khat year
Q: Yes.
A: January, 1948.
Q: 1948. So fram 1939 m 1948, yau viere dokg all those thhgs te just
talkd about.
A: &erything in the coal mine, just about anything there ms to do.
Q: 1 it. Haw long =re you a for- &hat year did yau becarne a
forman
A: I think it was in 1946. Scmwhere around 1946, about 1946 or 1947.
I MEAS only a formen for tm years, tm years was all I w s a foremin.
Q: Okay. About 1946 to . . .
A: And then this job cam up, see.
Q: Okay. State Mining Inspector. You mrked on that until you retired
in &at year, ad what ws the date
A: %at ELs , . .
Q: You wrote that dom here.
A: It says January, 1975.

Albert Fbrris 45
Q: Yes, January the first, 1975, when you retired.
A: Correct, when I retired. So you can see how many years. That's 48
years and bur months in the coal mine.
Q: Yes. 'Ilzat's ri&t. That's a pretty good record. You had rrrentioned
fore that, you said you startd by the old Jacksonville scale.
A: Yes. I think the reason it m s called the Jacksonville scale, I
believe where they had the United Mine brkers, you know how they used to
meet them.
Q: Yes.
A: They get the scales in the regular meeting, and it was in Jacksonville,
Florida, I believe. That's why they called it the Jacksonville . . .
Q: Oh, really
A: Xhat's *ere the salaries and everything between the union and the
cqanies, you how.
Q: What was the old Jacksonville scale that you started out at Do you
r- yauY pay
A: Yes, $7.25 for helper and $7.50 was the scale for the regular guy.
Like if you ere the head timbem, you got $7.50 and if yau Ere a
helper, you got $7 .Z5. 'Ihe sane thing as track layer, the sxi~ thhg.
Q: Okay.
A: 'Ihen fblly in later years, the wages ~ ndown.
t I can remmber
working for four dollars d Wty-five cents dom in the mine as a
tzack layer helper. Four-fifty was the regular guy. It really vent my
down to that, dom in the mine. Just imagine wrking for $4.25 dom in
that mine!
Q: Boy.
A: It ms bad enough anywhere, but down in that mine for fbur dollars
and now they make close to $100.
Q: Yes. Just missed it didn't you (laughter)
A: I missed all of it, yes,
Q: bbat can you tell IIE about the underground newspaper - The Groundhog
A: Mmre did yau see that Where ms that paper, did yau see that
Q: No, I haven't seen it. I just wndered if you had read Groundho~.
A: - The &auM-lhog Was that a c d s t
paper, - The Groundhog

Albert tbwris 46
Q: I don't haw. I thought maybe you . . .
A: I don't r& what the n a of ~ it ws, ht I remember when I ms
mrking with this Battuello, he was reading those papers, yau how. They
=re taming £ram Spain at that time, there wu a revolution in Spain.
Then PE had scm~ guys £ram our local union now, this is frorn aur local
union of the Progressive Miners that ient wer there and fought with the
c d s t s . That's why I say I know those camrunists that, you how,
mt over there. I can r d r a py by the name of Frane kern Gillespie,
he was a Scotchnan. He mt aver there. I can't think of his name, but
his last nan~ ms Frane, and I how he ws there in Spain helping out the
c ~ s t s Just . like dawn here, the rebels ms fighting h Spain.
That's &en Franco, you know, finally took aver aver there. He was a
mtor ram and I was trip rider and you'd have a little time, and he'd be
there reading. That's when I told him about he could read som other
papers besides that paper.
Q: Yes. Do you think that might have been The Groundho@
A: It could've been now. I don't how what the name of it MS.
Q: Okay. Did those people that viere helping the c d s t s in Spain,
did they ever have meetings together do you think, there in Wd
A: Oh, yes, yes. They had ~etings. Didn't know here, I never did.
They had secret metings, they'd get together sameplace.
Q: Did they recruit people
A: Well, I guess they did. I don't raaber id10 they cdd recruit, you
~ Q what W I man. But: there ms quite a few of them. They'd give a good
sped, they're going to do so rrrzch for than and werything , ad they'd
get Wte a few of than. But it didn't turn out that way.
Q: Yes. IJDw did the c d t y react to having the cammists in that
area
A: k11, you haw, they was getting pretty thick there, bezt it never did
get the majority. I don't thhk they ever got aver a third, you know
Wt I man, if they got that rmch.
Q: Yes.
A: I mean that hie bunr=h r3ght there in Benld. I don't think there
ws a third of than that ms, so that didn't go very far.
Q: I see.
A: But it doesn't take very many. You how, you can b e just a few
that control a whole bunch. Just like they say right in Russia now, just
a very few percent that controls the whole thing. If people had their
way, it mld be different, But they don't have their way and that's the
same thmg there, it don't tale very many, You can organize a few guys
and they can start a riot. Just three or four can start a big riot.

Albert bmis 47
Q: Yes. Were they violent people You said that they had bonhed one of
the priest's houses, is that right
A: Well, they were in a way revolutionaries. They believed in violence,
sure.
Q: Was there m h violence in that area fian them
A: Well, not too mch. You know, they wtched their way and nobody hew
who did it. They kept it pretty ell secret. You accuse this and that
one, but they never did find out dm the ri&t one was. hey always
watched that pretty carefully.
Q: kre there a lot of bmbings
A: Ch, there *re qyite a few. They'd do something, some guy wuld talk
too m h against than and everything, and they'd quiet him dom by doing
sawthing. Something violent in different mys, I don't r d r if it
was all bombing or not, you how.
Q: W t about the mine wars, xihen the Progressive and W wrkers wre
going at it I knaw here in Christian b t y and Sangaton County, there
was a lot mre of it maybe than down there.
A: Well, I was up here £random there. That was the last tine that I
hd anythug to do with them. After I went on that trip to Wkeytown,
you how, ve =re going dom there and I ms telling you abut it. 01
that trip down there that first time, e c~me back then they came up
here. They =re going to organize this bunch. I'll never forget, I was
at HewitWill@ here. I can r d r going down that street in Hewittville.
Keith PkCann I'll never forget. He was in the guard, what you call the .
. .
Q: National Guard
A: . . . National Guard, and 1'11 never forget because I raet&r him so
will. I r&r him with that bayonnet just pushing m wer to the side
and you'd go this my. Gilbert Large' s place, there 'd be w d s up on
top there d then they hauled us away out in the country and let you go.
I got off of there and I hitchhiked home, and that was the end of my
going on anything anpre. That ~s the end of that. I said "That's
enought of that." (laughter)
Q: Yes,
A: But I was here on all of it. I remembp_r uhen they used to hrn over
there at Kimaid, wer there in the night t-. I stayed there one
n&t, a Ere just kids, w Ere yomg, and m were over there at the
old ball dimmi. I ramher even ve stole that hon~ plate because w
didn't have one &ere e wre playing ball at hazle, We took the hare
plate, it ws a rubber home plate, and ie took it. I remember they'd get
up and give speeches and talk and everything, and pretty soon the house
mdd be on fire. Oh, it ms a mss, I'll tell you. You know, it KEE
just fun. k Ere just young fellows in their early twenties in 1920,
s d r e around there.

Albert &rris 48
Q: Yes. bho Ere giving the speeches
A: These guys that Ere head of the Progressives. I ramher this Joe
0- that was starting the union, he was up there talking and smbody
else, d they'd give big speeches. There ws a whole lot of than that
wre good orators. They'd be up talking and getting everybody here
going. I can still see that.
Q: Tell me mre.
A: 'Ihat ' s about it. I tell you, I tent through dl of that and that was
it.
Q: Was that National a &id of yours, or just an accquaintance
A: No. It just happened that he was the one that pushed UE uver to the
side, and then later on when I came here, then of course he was with
Peabody, wrking here for Peabody, you know. He was the head electrician.
He and I got into a lot of things, and then he and Joe Craggs-invented
about ahead of th. So they had the material and the facility to do
things and I'd give them quite a bit of suggestions, that's what happened.
A: C&, yes. I'd give than a lot of information, same things they invented.
Especially on those metal stoppings That actually canle £ram when I gave
them suggestions on making, a mtal door. It started out with a mtal
door, you how, lxlt you didn't want anything dom in the mine that mmld
catch fire, fire hazards. So you tried to make it out of mtal . So VE
was trying it out over at Nwhr Seven be. I talked to kith kCan in
the mrnings, w'd eat breakfast together d talk about different things.
Then he'd go out there and he had a shop out there where he could fix up
different things and try them out. But that didn' t pan out, the doors,
because they'd hit them and they'd kid of berd. It wisn't a very god
idea on these mtal doors, kt at
care out of it is the metal stoppings,
directing air. They used to use board stoppings to direct the air in
certain places, &re they bad the opening, they'd fill it up with boards.
Then later on, they'd fill up these, they called them crosscuts, with
metal stoppings and that' s what c e from this one thing. 'Ihat's at
happened
Q: C&, I see. Yes. We'll talk about same of those things a little bit
later, about all yaur errperiences as State Mining Inspector. That'll be
interesting.
A: Well you see, that ws one of our jobs. If w could help out on
certain thQp, that ms in the laws, as a State Inspector, if there's
something that you can see that mld benefit the coal mining industry,
so that's just what had happened. But sorae guys you see mld take
advantage and make sum mney. kll, they had doors here and they had
sprimg latches where they'd open up ad spring back. 'Ihose springs m ld
break and then the door wuldn' t mrk right, it wuldn't be closed, so
your air wuld be short circuited. It d dn't flow the way it was

Albert brris 49
supposed to. They wre having tmuble with them, so down there in our
mine rn had sotre that wre just rnade with no springs. Seas lik they'd
junp wer from one side to another. I told Joe, "Came d m and I'll show
you samething." We mt dotan after they started having trouble over
here. I said if they'd just give nae a nickel for each one they had here,
I'd have made some m y .
Q: Yes. Could you have got a patent on that
A: I didn't have no patent on it. No, it was already there. I gave him
the idea, I shrrwEd him you know. But this is helping the industry out.
Q: Sure.
A: But he got the glory £ran it and everything else. Not only the
glory, he got a little . . .
Q: Joe Ozanic
A: No, Joe Craggs.
Q: Joe Craggs.
A: He ms the superintendent here in later years. At that t he he
wasn't though. He ws just a foream when I took him dom there to show
him. Iplt he remwlbers that.
Q: What can you tell me about the Wlsonville sit-dm strike in May of
19372
A: kk had a sit-down strike there, I rerraember that, but I didn't how
too nuch about it. The guys just stayed dom in the mine. Sat down
there and wuldn' t get out until I don' t know how they got them out. Fht
I didn't sit down in the mine, no. I had enough . . .
Q: You =re down there at that th
A: Oh, I had lived there, yes. I remanbew when they hd the sit-dom
strike.
Q: Did some of the mrkers *o wrked with you go uver and take part in
that
A: I don't renember &ether they did that or not. I don't think from
aur mine where E worked. Nurtiber T b and that was Number Four; Wilsorzville
is Nuther Four. I don't think w had a sit-down strike at our mine. It
w.s a sit-dm at Fm.
Q: I see.
A: I don't how whether any of than took part in it or not. mybe they
did, but I don't ramber.

Albert mrris 50
Q: Okay. Let me just throw a couple of mtws at you and see dmt you
remember about than: Jewry Allard.
A: That rime I don't how. You how, I've heard it, lxt I don't rder
anything about Jerry Allard .
Q: Okay. How about Ray Tombazzi
A: Yes, Ray Tombazzi, oh, yes, he's £ran here. I didn't how too rmch
about him, &at he did, just dmt I'd heard. You haw, I didn't how him
personally until after I got over here. I belonged to Elks and he did
too, ard m used to talk about all these things. He used to tell me a
bunch of stories I don't even remember. But hew him pretty ~ 11, he
ms a Progressive. Tombazzi, yes, I can r d r him.
Q: He's £ran wer here in Taylorville
A: Yes, he's from Taylorville. Tombazzi, I how him very ~11.
Q: W t
was his . . .
A: I don't know ht
he was in the Progressives, but he ms up ther -
sonwhere. He ws probably getting a little noney out of Ft shy,
because I don't think he'd do all the things he did for nothing, I don't
how. I don't how whether he ms an officer in any place or what.
Q: Okay. John L. Lewis.
A: k11, John L. Lewis was the head of the United Mine brkers, yes.
The first time I ever rnet him and talked to him was at that disaster at
the Orient Number M, and that' s when = started talking about back in
Iowa ad everything. bhen I started talking to him, he wanted to be with
me all the time, even down in that mine. Lk was talking on top, you
know. We shook hands with him and talM to him, then R got to talking
about it. He said, "Frm Iowa!", and then he wanted to how because
that's where he's frm. We started talking about I-, and so from there
on, hen w mt to make the investigation, and I walked together through
that nhe. I man vie Ere discussing everything that was going because
we Ere rnaking an investigation and I was on one of the investigating
cdttees, you how, state inspector. Sa I was with him all the tim,
and we really got acquainted. I hew his brother, Howard, because he was
superintendent: dom at one of those mines d m there, and I hew him. I
used to go to safety meetings and things like that, and I hew him, but I
never did met John L. Lewis until that one time. That's the only tiroe
and that was the last time. Ran there on, I never did met him anymore.
Q: Well describe him to m. %at ws he like
A: k11, you how, he m s a rough looking guy, just an ordinary man to
m, Yau lmaw what I mean. Just knowing dmt he did and everything, he
was a pretty shred man and a pretty tough man, too. Yes, he was a good
orator ym hw, and he learned all that ham, I think his wife was a
school teacher and she mre or less tau&t him how to do the talking.

Albert Elorris 51
He 'd get up and give speeches in the hause. 'Ihat' s a t I understand,
what I 've read about him, I don't how.
Q: So Iowawas something that was in comrronwithboth of you.
A: Oh, yes. As soon as I told him where I ms born and everything, then
he told E about the time, he said, ''I used to wlk right by there to go
to mrk." I didn't how that.
Q: bhm did he wwk there, do you w d r
A: Well, that had to be about 1911 or 1912.
Q: That's the time you =re born then.
A: Yes, 1911. That's right. (tape stopped)
Q: Now m mt to talk here for a minute about the kistmas disaster of
1951. That was in Orient Number 'Ilwo
A: Orient Number lh mne, yes.
Q: How many people =re killed in that
A: ke-mred and nineteen.
Q: A hundred and nineteen men.
A: That was involved in that disaster, yes.
Q: Okay. Now, how did the disaster begin, what set the dmle thing off
A: Well, aat set the whole thing off because I was in on the investigation
and I'll never forget because I ms askd the question after I made the
investigation and saw vhat had happened. There ms an entry that was
falling in, and in the mming the boss delegated tm guys to go and set
same timber to keep this from falling in any further. mile he ws
there, he checked for everything, he had the safety lamp and checkd for
gas and everything was clear. Zhese guys that =re mrking there, one
guy didn't smoke and the other guy smked. Now, this is the fact. So
they were coming in the first thing, the boss left there and wnt dom to
a different place because w found him across *re there was another
territory. A new territory was going to be startd and he ws wer there
looking it over. That's &re ve f d him, dead, at that tim, after
the disaster. But he left there and after he ws wer there looking that
territory over, in the mean time, they =re bringing in som empty cars
because they Ere loading. There was a territory just belaw there here
these guys =re [mrking] so this entry wuldn't cave in to this place
dere they ere mrking. So they brmght in same empties, and as they
=re coming in with the *ties, they =re cauing through a door there.
Same cars that went off the track and the door stayed open for awhile so
that short circuited the air. bhen you short circuit the air, the air
going araund in certain places keeps the gas back, but hen they short

Albert Morris 52
circuit the air, the gas fcan that old works started coming out to &ere
these m ere working, these guys dm =re setting these props. This
one guy you could see here he struck the maeh and that ws the end of
it. That gas ccm out there where he ws ad that's h t started the
fire, I man the explosion. The gas cane out there and he was going to
light this cigarette. He didn't get the cigarette lit because the cigarette
was there, and you could see &ere he had struck the mtch. I was right
there and scnxebody had tried to squash it, kt that wasn't right. But
that was it.
Q: Yes.
A: Xhis guy was going to light that cigarette. If he didn't light it,
it mld've probably got back to where they were wrking ad mld've set
it off anyway, becmse they had this air short circuited there. So it
could've got back there later on to where there was same Wnd of a spark.
mere was bound to be a spark -ere where they Ere wrking, you
how, with all that mchinery and everything. It dd've set it off
later on. But actually, that's what happened right there, when they set
it off. That's what set it off, not saying that it mldn't have itself
later, there'd have been an qlosion any how, ht it just took a little
mre time.
Q: Right. Job L. Lewis said later that it was an avoidable accident.
A: Sure it was avoidable.
Q: b w cdd it have been avoided, if you say it wuld've been set off
sooner or later
A: They hew it could've been avoided. There's just sweral things. It
could've been avoided, and I can tell you exactly. If sanebody had
stayed there with the safeq lamp and checked and watch& this guy because
they wren't allod to mke dow there in the mine anyhow, so when the
boss left, that was it, see. So in the first place, that was it.
Q: So the boss should've never left the area
A: He should've been right there because, you how, it's a dangerous
place. There should've been a boss there or s-body else that ms
checking br gas that was caning out there. He could've warned than
ahead of tirne d m there, "Shut the door because there's gas," ard got a
lot of things. But that could've been avoided by that being detected.
It msn't detected. bhen you're there by ywurself, you how, with gas
you don't -11 it or anything else. You can't see it. So it came out
there and he ms the one that lit it, with that cigarette. But in the
meantime, they had a short circuit and that' s actually dmt caused the
cax behg off the track and the air being short circuited. That's &at
caused it.
Q: Yes. kbw many men =re kill4 instantly Appro*tely.
A: Well, you see it msn't instantly, whoever was in that territory, I
don't r d r , just a few, say ten or fifteen or so, right quick. It

Albert Mrris 53
muldn't take long. Instantly, those tw guys that *re ri&t there wre
instantly killed.
Q: 'Ihose tw, yes.
A: Yes, because they =re just red, you h. TZle fire just left thern
wight there. Those tw w e killed instantly right there. Then it
carried on down, and as it mnt on dm, what killed the rest of than was
the carbon mnoxide. It killed all the west as it mt on down, you
know. The explosion carried quite a mys and it killed quite a few
others as it mt by, because it ms a terrific explosion. It was just
like a hurricane or =thing. It just took sanae of those rails, I don't
know, they viere about 80 pound rails, and just twisted those rails and
threw those big wtoors off to the side. It was a terrific explosion.
Q: ht mld cause the rails to do that It mldn't be wind, it d d
be what
A: I don't know d~t it is. It just twisted them. Wether they hit
somthimg you kcw, as it threw them against scrraethhg.
Q: Now, is the oxygen -loding when that happens
A: Oh, yes. Oxygen with rethane.
Q: So in other wrds, after the qlosion, the people in the Miate
vicinity, there 'd be no oxygen. They'd be breathing the carbon mnoxide .
A: hat's right, that's right. The carbon~mmxide just Elled them.
It depleted the oxygen, and carbon mnoxide is deadly in just very small
allxnmts.
Q: Ibw many of the mn died frm that then All those 119, besides the
tw that Ere killed instantly
A: That's right, &an lack of oxygen and carbon mnoxide, that's right.
This other guy that was on the end, &re I ws telling you all these
guys back there, those ten could've been saved easily if they'd just been
over in the other entry instead of the one where I shod you *re they
=re. If they =re on the other side, there ms fresh air aver there and
they would've never got killed. ht they just happen& to be on the
other side, and then all =re killed from carbon mndde coming out.
was filtering out because the air ws starthg to mix in with it. The
oxygen was starting to mix in and so it msn't too heavy. He didn't get
too rmch, but he got qdte a bit of carbon moxide. Eht he withstood it
because he was up there with the air. He was actually up there at that
certain place ard he didn't breathe too hard, see, so he lasted.
Q: All right. Tell me about this person that you found. Jdis rime m s .
. .
A: Ibug Sanders.
It

Albert brris 54
A: No, Douglas, Douglas Sanders. I think that was his m.
Q: All right. Tell me about how you came to find him.
A: Well, I came to find him because I mt up to explore myself while
they =re getting arrangments to &ere ME was go- tO look for these
last ten mesl. I could see that &re ms samebody wer there on accaunt
of the tracks. men when w cane back, they wanted to how what entry
each one of us mted to take. There Ere tw~ inspectors, state inspectors,
and tw federal inspectors, I said I wanted that: entry because the
fdwal m =re taking all the glory, so I said I'll just go out with
them. I was alwys ahead of them, I was alwys thmkhg, you how.
You've got to when you're dom there. You've got to think and you've got
to be alert, things can happen so easy.
Q: Yes. You saw same footprints going dom a certain entry
A: A certain entry. A certain entry d m in the mine.
Q: So you follod the footprints there ad then . . .
A: k11, w =re going to make this entry anyhow, and then I lasew you
cauld see where the footprints were leading to. So I went over there and
that's how rn fod all the rest of the m.
Q: Okay, He ms surviving because he ms in an air draft
A: %re ms a fall and he was laying up higher, he wasn't d m low.
Actually, if he ws dom low he ddn't have lasted. But he was up
there far enough. Say the place is about seven feet high and he was just
on W s pile that tas up thexe about, I'd say three feet or three and a
half ket, with his head up there laying on this fall. It was a regular
fall, it's like dirt and it falls dom there. He ms laying there like
that and that' s the reason he suwived . 'Ihat's the only thing I can
thhk of that is why he did, because the air w better there, right in
the middle than it was anywhere else. If he was up any higher he muld've
been depleted in oxygen because the methane dd've been up at the top
d below this, your carbon dioxide. See, your carbon dioxide is donn
lmr, That air flow through there, that current of air corning through
there mild be about in the middle. That's k e the best part of your
ventilation dd've been. Of course, that ms mixed with both carbon
fll~noxide and dioxide both.
Q: So do you think it was an accident: that he just found that proper
level
A: They carried him there. J3e ws a dispatcher, d these nm carrid
him over there and laid him there, those other nine that =re there, or
whoever, carried him in there and they laid him there because he was sort
of a cripple or samething. He probably couldn't walk and was kind of
crippled, so they probably carried him and laid him there.

Albert brris 55
Q: Did they k e to leave him behind then Did they get out of the
mine
A: k, they stayed right there.
Q: Oh.
'Ihey started barricading themselves.
A: Yes. They started barricading tut didn't do a very good job of
barricading because they just used braddish cloth. That s regular old
cloth that they plls on and some of than was wrapped in cloth and layin%
there and thats . . .
Q: All right. So did those nine survive
A: No. There msn't nine, there ms ten. k looked for the last ten
and nine of thein =re dead. S.Je didn't know if there m s anybody that was
alive, but the rescue team cam in and . . .
Q: %re they trained to lay him in that position or was it just an
accidmt that he . . .
A: Wll, no. There ms a fall there and they just laid him there. It
ws just an accident, that's right, that they laid him there.
Q: Then hat did they do. You say they covered up with, hat was it,
burlap
A: No, some of them. Sozlle of them yau could see were covered up with
brattice cloth.
Q: Yes. They laid down, was that a training procedure
A: No, no, that ws no training procedure. I don't haw sjny they did
it. k, that was no training procedure. The only training procedure
they had was to barricade themselves back there, and they tried but they
didn't do a very good job at it.
Q: I see.
A: In wen doing that, they might've delayed that bad air going to where
they laid him. They w e exerting th-elves, walking arod and werythirg,
and they =re breathing mre of ht foul air, and him just being there.
So you see, that's one reason he stayed. If they'd probably all laid
down like he did, there muld 've been same mre that wuld 've wived.
Eut I man they didn't haw &at to do or anything. It ms all kitd of
disorganized you how, because you're down there and you don't how dmt
you might do. You can say a lot of things ard have training and everything
else, but you don' t know when you get in that situation ht thhgs
you're going to do. Zhat's just what happened there. I ramher because
when they called us and the rescue teams, of course, I was one of the
inspectors, so I vent dom there and I slept for three days, three nights,
in their truck. They've got a mine rescue truck, and that's *ere I
slept, in that truck. I was dom there for 36 hours. I spent &isms
Eve down in that mine, I spent my Qlristmas Ekre d m there, in 1951, down
in that mine.

Albert Morris 56
Q: Were you looking for other . . .
A: Well, I was with the rescue team when they got to the first bunch.
In fact, I was in the mantrip and we Ere going up there to go to the
first b h , and rode in on the first biunch to go in looking for the
first men. k knew rsght here they wre, and then w started recovering
all of than as E Ere going along.
Q: So did they recover all the bodies
A: Yes. In fact, I stayed dom there just about: long emu& that everybody
that ms recwerad while I was there ~ nby t re. I know because they
Ere bringing them by and I vas ri&t there all the tine, just wtching
things. I was watching everything pretty carefully. There ms some
things going on that you had to watch. At one tine, there was close to
300 mn down there. %re ws an explosive mixture there in a lot of
places, they could've set it off and killed all those 300 men that ws
down there tJhile E ere doing the rescue work. So you had to watch
things pretty carefully. Then of course, after = got through and all
the bodies were gone then, they =re checking out and there rere still
ten mre missing. 'ken later on, that's when E d them. That was
three days later when wt3 kund these ma.
Q: I see. So the disaster took place on December 23
A: Yes, I guess that was the 23rd. I don't remmkr just exactly.
Q: Were there any cave-ins involved in that disaster, or just gas mstly
A: k11, it was just gas in the disaster. Eht later on, there =re a
few falls here and there and everything, it bled out the stoppings
overcast on it's way because it's violent.
Q: I see. All right, is there anything else you can tell m about that
A: No, that's about it. That just about takes care of that FJhole disaster.
That was it.
Q: ht other rescue attanpts have you been on, besides that one
A: Well, the first one, dm I was on the rescue team as just a wrker
in the mine, is that one at Eagerville NLrmber One Mine, that those tm
men when they broke thm@ to that old mine. I think it was the old
Clyde mine or whatever it is. I don' t r d r &at the nam was, I
think it ws the old Clyde mine. They brok into that, that water care
in there and they drowned, I guess. Not only that, because when they
care in there, they didn't emtly drom because foul air got thm. They
depletd the air and that killed than.
Q: Lhat year ~3 that
A: ht year was that I can't r d r
just exactly.

Albert Ibrris 57
Q: We can look it up pretty soon. In the 1950's thaugh
A: No, that ws earlier. That ms real early. I don't how, I think
that was in the 1930's wasn't it Or I think the l%O1s, in 1940 or
1939, samewhere araund there.
Q: Have I got it . . .
A: Yes, you've got it in there s&re.
Q: I'll check on that.
A: Yes. That was *en I saw Governor Green. So I guess that was around
in 1940 ' s , 1941 or sometjnere around in there, because Governor Green was
in at that the. He came d m to the mine ad ~ ndown t below and everything
too. Yes, he was there all the tine.
Q: So besides being on the rescue sqyad, after that, you =re mstly
mine inspector mtil your retirmt
A: No. I was on the rescue team for a long tirne there. k had a rescue
team . . .
End of Side One, Tape Tbm