76Mr. LARGENT. So the answer is no, you cannot?Mr. ZAVOS. Of course not, we haven’t even done a clone embryohuman clone embryo yet.Mr. LARGENT. So if, in fact, you cannot do it, are you saying thenthat you will not do any human cloning until you can accuratelydetermine abnormal embryos?Mr. ZAVOS. Mr. Congressman, I think I stated at the very endof my statement that this Consortium will not step on dead bodiesor deformed babies to get this accomplished and therefore I thinkthat that statement defines exactly the answer that you’re lookingforṀr. LARGENT. So let me ask you this question, if you went forwardbelieving that you had a method to screen abnormal embryoswhich Dr. Jaenisch says you cannot do——Mr. ZAVOS. Well, that’s his opinion.Mr. LARGENT. I understand that. MIT carries a little weight uphere.Mr. ZAVOS. Yes, I know.Mr. LARGENT. If, in fact, you went forward and created a childthat was abnormal, would that stop your efforts?Mr. ZAVOS. That’s obviously not for me to make that decision, butfor the Consortium. Bear in mind that I’m just a spokesman for alarger group of——Mr. LARGENT. I understand. Would you advocate that for yourConsortium?Mr. ZAVOS. I would.Mr. LARGENT. To say we need to stop?Mr. ZAVOS. Yes, I would advocate for that. And the statement atthe end of my presentation today just defines that. We don’t intendto step on dead bodies or deformed babies to get there. And thatpretty much really determines and defines that.Mr. LARGENT. In January, Dr. Zavos, you and Dr. Severino statedin your intent to lead a project to clone a human being withinthe next 2 years.Mr. ZAVOS. Eighteen to 24 months is to yield viable embryos forthe purpose of transferring in utero to establish a pregnancy.Mr. LARGENT. Where exactly will this project take place?Mr. ZAVOS. I cannot disclose that. I think I have already statedto the committee that this is obviously, it’s outside the continentalUSA, but I cannot tel you where that would be.Mr. LARGENT. Okay, and——Mr. ZAVOS. Can I just take one—about 10 seconds of your time,if I would. The people here are talking about the left and the rightand we’re not Republicans and Democrats, obviously. They could beon the right here, but on the left here, Dr. Boisselier and myselfwere not associated in any way, shape or form. Therefore, she representsa different group of people that she works with and I representa Consortium for human therapeutic cloning and I justwanted for the record to be established as such and be very clearand vivid.Mr. LARGENT. Dr. Zavos, let me ask you another question. Whenmy colleague, Cliff Stearns asked you would you ever do a combinationof a nonhuman egg with a human DNA or whatever, you saidabsolutely not, mad science.VerDate 11-MAY-2000 07:46 May 24, 2001 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00080 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 71495.TXT HCOM2 PsN: HCOM2
77Mr. ZAVOS. That’s correct.Mr. LARGENT. Why?Mr. ZAVOS. Because by scientific standards it doesn’t make sense.Mr. LARGENT. Okay, but you agree that to a lot of people whatyou’re proposing doesn’t make sense either, so in other words, therecould be more people that would be encouraged to do exactly whatyou said would be mad science because of the work you’re doing.In other words, we kind of get on that proverbial slippery slope sothat people would go there, maybe not you, but somebody would becauseyou’ve taken the ball down the field a little bit. Somebodyelse might say why not? Why can’t we do this?Mr. ZAVOS. Mr. Largent, I think that we need to talk about thisa bit because I think it is your responsibility of the government ofthe good old U.S.A. to take some precautionary measurements. Ijust finished coming back from Israel where I met with many,many figures including the President of Israel. Three weeks ago Iwas in Greece talking to the Greek government. I spoke to the Cypriotgovernment where I have instructed the Cypriot government toestablish guidelines and a committee to study for the employmentof this type of technology and put the adequate restrictions that arenecessary to employ this technology safely.Mr. LARGENT. Right, okay. Dr. Zavos, let me just finish by sayingI see my time is about to expire, is that you’ve been quoted as saying‘‘ethics is a wonderful word.’’Mr. ZAVOS. Yes.Mr. LARGENT. ‘‘But we need to look beyond ethical issues here.It’s not an ethical issue. It’s a medical issue. We have a duty here.’’And I would just say that it is the responsibility of Congress tolook at this medical issue, but that we don’t put the ethical issuesantecedent or behind the ethical issues that we’re facing and confrontinghere and we do have a responsibility to look at that andso anyway, I want to thank all of you for your testimony, it’s beenan enlightening panel and I yield back my time, Chairman.Mr. GREENWOOD. The time of the gentleman has expired and alltime for questioning this panel has expired, so we——Mr. RUSH. Mr. Chairman, can I indulge the committee and askjust one burning question that I absolutely have?Mr. GREENWOOD. The gentleman from Illinois asks unanimousconsent for 40 seconds, without objection.Mr. RUSH. Dr. Zavos, is the practice of human cloning, is that amedical practice, is that considered in the practice of medicine?Mr. ZAVOS. If it becomes safe and reproducible, I think that itwill become just like IVF was not in 1978, it was banned in theU.S.A. for 3 years until it became legal and it was employed properlyin the U.S.A. Therefore, the future will tell. And of course, peoplelike you have to make those kinds of decisions as we go along.Mr. RUSH. So if it’s not safe, considered safe, then it would notbe a medical practice?Mr. ZAVOS. Absolutely.Mr. GREENWOOD. The time of the gentleman has expired.Mr. RUSH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.Mr. GREENWOOD. The Chair wishes to thank our witnesses inthis panel. You have spent 3 1 ⁄2 hours with us and we appreciateVerDate 11-MAY-2000 07:46 May 24, 2001 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00081 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 71495.TXT HCOM2 PsN: HCOM2
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ISSUES RAISED BY HUMAN CLONING RESE
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C O N T E N T SPageTestimony of:Boi
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ISSUES RAISED BY HUMAN CLONINGRESEA
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3Would human cloning lessen the wor
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5Chairman TAUZIN. Thank you, Mr. Ch
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7and cell therapy and beta cell dev
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9safety and the moral condition of
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13seen in the common phrase, being
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16a want of capacity to live were a
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18eight to ten weeks gestation as a
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20Washington v. Glucksberg ignores
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22tion decision. The father of ‘
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24been treated as ‘‘sui generis
- Page 30 and 31: 26Perhaps the three most compelling
- Page 32 and 33: 28are their genes. We know that chi
- Page 34 and 35: 30ago, Nobel Prize-winning biologis
- Page 36 and 37: 32Mr. JOHN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman
- Page 38 and 39: 34Mr. GREENWOOD. The Chair thanks t
- Page 40 and 41: 36to turn undifferentiated human pl
- Page 42 and 43: 38these issues have not yet even be
- Page 44 and 45: 40really have a clue what those gen
- Page 46 and 47: 42mately 150 days of gestation and
- Page 48 and 49: 44Hill JR, Winger QA, Long CR, Loon
- Page 50 and 51: 46clones will not change a bit by t
- Page 52 and 53: 48technologies, we’re able today
- Page 54 and 55: 50from the testes of infertile men
- Page 56 and 57: 52not be taken away from people, be
- Page 58 and 59: 54a result of this declaration, I w
- Page 60 and 61: 56Too much pressure, too many expec
- Page 62 and 63: 58requires some level of scientific
- Page 64 and 65: 60an abnormal person. So I think it
- Page 66 and 67: 62to the world, back to this earthl
- Page 68 and 69: 64which is not true for cow which i
- Page 70 and 71: 66Ms. BOISSELIER. University of Hou
- Page 72 and 73: 68Ms. BOISSELIER. Soon.Ms. DEGETTE.
- Page 74 and 75: 70Mr. ZAVOS. No, no. We believe tha
- Page 76 and 77: 72cloning process. And without that
- Page 78 and 79: 74have to look at the structure of
- Page 82 and 83: 78that very much and you are excuse
- Page 84 and 85: 80that people have incorrectly stat
- Page 86 and 87: 82My name is Dr. Thomas Murray. I
- Page 88 and 89: 84human subjects against irresponsi
- Page 90 and 91: 86might be born as a result of this
- Page 92 and 93: 88ever, it is not unusual for the g
- Page 94 and 95: 90Mr. DEUTSCH. Because there really
- Page 96 and 97: 92Ms. ZOON. When we found out about
- Page 98 and 99: 94Mr. GREENWOOD. The time of the ge
- Page 100 and 101: 96Be that as it may I think there a
- Page 102 and 103: 98There has been progress in the cl
- Page 104 and 105: 100may find that it is a terrible e
- Page 106 and 107: 102entists tried to get this ban ov
- Page 108 and 109: 104lies in our hands. And we face a
- Page 110 and 111: 106clude Ireland, Israel, Italy, Fr
- Page 112 and 113: 108strict IVF and similar high-tech
- Page 114 and 115: 110while ‘‘clone then love’
- Page 116 and 117: 112What Cloning Is Not—The ‘‘
- Page 118 and 119: 114And the largest group of people
- Page 120 and 121: 116The last piece to the legal puzz
- Page 122 and 123: 118cloning law on both scientific f
- Page 124 and 125: 120mendous potential human safety r
- Page 126 and 127: 122age him to do this research and
- Page 128 and 129: 124I realize there have been calls
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126‘‘from which I have no assoc
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128TO HAVE CHILDREN,’’ I ask th
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130of ourselves as humans in our pr
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132Our Genetic Science Task Force c
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134But this was also true in occide
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136So we utilized good science to d
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138egg and so on. What you’re tal
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140Mr. DEUTSCH. I think that’s ac
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142and dad? We all did that when we
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144Food, Drug and Cosmetics Act or
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146Mister Chairman, the embryo may
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148The current low rate of cloning
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150TIME magazine’s pictorial, ‘
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152John A. Robertson, University of