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Talbot commented: “Here’s the headline:Hostess sues penniless Bronx student.”Another participant exclaimed: “Well, it’sparody. I mean, really!”Cardone added: “Where we work influenceshow we deal with this. When I worked inprivate publishing, it was totally not appropriateever to use an image in the wrong way. Ineducation, it’s a little different. You don’t wantto give people the idea that it’s okay to traceand collage for money. But if I’m not makingmoney, then it’s probably okay as long as I citeor I use things appropriately. I don’t know.How does everybody else feel about this?”From the other side of the copyright divide,Barbara Levy described seeing images verysimilar to ones she had created, of a sunriseover Great South Bay in Long Island. “And Iwas shocked – I thought, did he just move thecamera a little bit to the left, a little to the right,did he crop my thing and move the yellowsomewhere else? There were six or seven imagesthat were almost identical to six or seven imagesof mine. My immediate response was, oh I’mparanoid. Two people can have the same ideaat the same time. But I didn’t like it.”Eric Gray responded: “If somebody was touse my image and credit me, I’d be like, ‘Thankyou. No problem.’ If they were to not creditme, then I’d start having a big problem becauseI would like to be recognized for it. But inphotography, it’s hard to find a truly uniqueimage. Your example, I’ve seen that imageabout a hundred times, I’m sorry to say. Thesun and the ocean, it is a universal thing.”What about documentary photography,which might include billboards or other objectsthat display trademarked logos as part of thescene? Gray thought that “if it’s in the publicforum, it’s fair to have a picture taken of it” – atleast, as long as it is not the main subject of thephoto. Cardone gave an example: “My studenttook a picture of the building on 42nd Streetwith all the clocks and different time zones, andan MTA bus going past it, blurry, and therewas an ad on the side of the bus that said, ‘Thefirst time.’ It was a really profound picture. Ithad the speed of the traffic, the ad with thatstatement, and then this building which is veryrecognizable. But if she wanted to exhibit that,I don’t know how easy that would be. It is not apicture of the ad. It’s a statement about time inthe city.”Sandra Camomile said: “I also teachstudents in a digital world, and I feel I have aresponsibility to give them information on howto protect themselves, and possibly companiesthat they are going to work for. So this is whatI tell them. If they’re going to take images fromthe Internet and use somebody else’s work, theyhave to manipulate the image enough that theartist will not be able to recognize that imageas their own. I have them show me the original,and I look at what they’ve done. And there haveto be significant changes before I would say,‘yeah I think you’d be okay.’ I don’t know thisfor certain, though.“I’ve heard percentages, like it needs to bechanged 75%. I’ve heard 80%, 90%, 95%. I’velooked for information. It seems to be a movingtarget. So I give them the advice that if the artistcan’t recognize the work, then you’re going to beokay. Otherwise, you could put your companyinto bankruptcy. You could put yourself intobankruptcy with legal fees. And I tell them thatright now copyright and fair use are uncertain.And you don’t want to become the test case.” 130Tony White has also been educatinghimself about copyright law, “but what I finddiscouraging is, the more you learn aboutcopyright and fair use, the more of a chillingeffect it has on your creative expression. Greatereducation about this topic, for artists, seems tohave a chilling effect.”The meeting ended with a word of cautionfrom Eve Sinaiko, publications director ofthe College Art Association: “I heard aroundthis table a fair amount of misinformation– not that anyone did this deliberately. But becareful about asking each other for advice onpoints of law.“From CAA’s point of view, we are aware thatfor both artists who create art and scholars whowrite about it and study it, there are enormoustensions and increasing difficulties in thisrealm. Misunderstandings of the law, fear ofthe law, excessively aggressive uses of the law,or reluctance to assert the law on both sides areBrennan Center for Justice 25