LARRY KORNFELD INTERVIEW with Steve Bottoms, 9.95 - Judson ...

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SJB: Michael Smith said somewhere that Cino's death was the end of a writer's era,and the Open Theatre's demise in 1973 marked the end of another era ...LK: And Judson, my leaving and ... Well, I think it's very natural. Michael's tryingvery much to make sense of it, historically, which is good. Michael's been awonderful support. The Village Voice was very important. Jerry Tallmer, the originalcritic in 1961, was a big help... and the critics after that, Michael Smith, RossWetzsteon, Michael Feingold, Erika Munk, they've all been helpful: the Voice wasvery strong. Now the Living Theatre's great helper was Brooks Atkinson. BrooksAtkinson gave a great review to [?]... and he would come, and he would review it,and say I didn't understand this one, but other things he said you must go see this, thisis important. He was not the greatest critic, but he was open-hearted man. They'd bein financial trouble and he'd call and say can I be of any help? And he'd write anarticle ...SJB: Was Off-Off essentially the four major venues? Cino, Judson, La Mama,Genesis.LK: Those were the four main places, but there were lots of little things, groups ofpeople who were around. But certainly they were the four places that wereconsistent.And the Open Theatre later. And of course now, the OOB 'movement'might seem very large, but they seem to be doing plays hoping to get to B'way ...SJB: What are your main recollections of the Big 4? You've mentioned the LivingTheatre as being like a jewel box, and you've described Judson. What about theothers?LK: They were simply stages ... The atmosphere at La Mama was always heady,depending on whether it was a storefront theatre, or finally her 4th Street theatre,there's was always a very particular, wonderful, Ellen Stewart quality about thoseplaces. Her little bell would ring ...LK: Yes. In a slightly different accent each time. I think as far as real atmosphere ...the LT had the most consciously created atmosphere, aesthetic, locality ... Judsoncertainly had ... Have you been inside? It's kind of wrecked now, a lot of the stainedglass windows are out being repaired ... The answer to your question of whatatmosphere I remember the most - the only answer to that - was audience excitementat all of the theatres ... Of course I was always at Judson; I didn't go much to otherplaces because I was always working. But there was an incredible excitement, withaudiences waiting outside for doors to open, waiting at the ticket line to get theirticket, the conversation along the hallway before the doors to the theatre opened, theexcitement waiting to get in, people trying to get on the waiting list, people fighting
over tickets ... the excitement in the theatre before the play began, the action, thereception, the arguments, it was very very ... It wasn't just artists working in isolationin the avant-garde to an audience that didn't understand. We had an audience, ittended to be the audience of the artists in the Village and the cognoscenti in theliterary world ... And then by the end of the 60s it became an in-thing, I think, as withthe Warhol period, that's when we began to be very publicised. But in the first fiveyears - well I'll talk about Judson - the first five years of Judson, if you'd gone alongyou would have spotted a whole slue of important people on opening night. I wasalways very excited by that, I was never nervous about audiences, I was excited bythem coming in, except for one person. When I knew that this person was coming tosee the show, I was a nervous wreck, I couldn't watch the show, and that was MerceCunningham. It mattered to me terribly what Merce thought, I respected him somuch ... He also is a great moral figure, the integrity and the power of his vision, he'svery important. ..LK: It didn't kill it, it was just different. The trendy people came and also the oldpeople came ... Now there was a real club feeling at the Cino. The stage was veryvery tiny, but you could still go there and see Bernadette Peters in Dames at Sea. Andthe stage was like, half of this room [medium size living room], and they were on thisstage and three girls, four girls would be tapping away.LK: No it wasn't more informal, it was just a different shape. You sat around, it wasclose, it was a much smaller audience, it was more intimate. It also had a differentquality, Joe Cino ... the work that was done there was very 'in-your-face'. And atJudson it wasn't so much in your face as to your face. It's a matter of space, a matterof size, volume of people in the theatre, volume of the space around you.LK: A small theatre. Theatre quality. I felt that Theatre Genesis was a theatre, in thatbuilding which was a church. There was not so much that sense of the church aroundyou.They were in a smaller space -- not actually the church sanctuary itself. Judsonnever had a smaller theatre.
Page 6 and 7: -- from song to song in one play: w
Page 8 and 9: The church's mission was very spiri
Page 10 and 11: LK: Yeah. I was always very fond of
Page 12 and 13: of the truck driver, who's the chor
Page 14 and 15: young playwrights, poets, who had a
Page 16 and 17: LK: The theatre was originally form
Page 20 and 21: LK: Remy Charlip's work. Almost any
Page 22 and 23: SJB: Yes. But was there a tension,
Page 24 and 25: happened with the best of Off-Off-B
Page 26 and 27: So they really retained the quality
Page 28 and 29: SJB: Irene was saying how you shoul

LARRY KORNFELD INTERVIEW with Steve Bottoms, 9.95 - Judson ...

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