Note of meeting - Employability in Scotland

SCOTTISH EMPLOYABILITY FORUMNOTE OF MEETING HELD 5 SEPTEMBER 2013COSLA Conference Centre, Verity House, 19 Haymarket Yards, EdinburghPresent:Cllr Harry McGuigan, COSLA Spokesperson for Community Well-beingJohn Swinney, Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Employment and Sustainable GrowthRt Hon Michael Moore MP (then) Secretary of State for ScotlandColin Borland, Federation of Small BusinessesElma Murray, SOLACEGrahame Smith, STUCHelena Craw, Working LinksJohn McClelland CBE, Scottish Funding Council / Skills Development ScotlandLaurie Russell, Social Enterprise ScotlandPaul De Pellette, IngeusPaul McKelvie OBE, UK Commission for Employment and SkillsProf. Mary Bownes, Highlands and Islands Enterprise*Professor Alan McGregor, Chair of the National Delivery GroupRichard Cornish, DWPSupporting officialsJames Fowlie, COSLAStephen McConnachie, DWPSheila Scobie, Scotland Office*Paula McLeay, COSLAPamela Smith, SLAEDJoanne Farrow, Scottish GovernmentShane Rankin, Scottish GovernmentRona Sweeney, Scottish Government*Denotes substituteApologies:Angela Constance, Minister for Youth EmploymentCllr Douglas Chapman, COSLA Spokesperson for Education, Children and Young PeopleRt Hon David Mundell MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for ScotlandCrawford Gillies, Scottish EnterpriseDr. Andrew Scott, Scottish GovernmentMichelle McCrindle, SCVOTony McElroy, TescoAGENDA ITEM 1: Introductions and welcome1. Cllr McGuigan welcomed attendees and confirmed apologies. Cllr McGuigan began byreaffirming the real commitment to partnership working around the table andencouraging members to be open and frank about raising issues. It is important thatthe SEF was a place to air both the difficult issues as well as to hear about goodpractice and achievements.AGENDA ITEM 2: Minutes2. The minutes of the last meeting were agreedSEF minutes 5 September 2013 - final draft on 13 Nov 2013

AGENDA ITEM 3: Scottish Employability Forum Workplan Update Cllr McGuigan invited Professor Alan McGregor to present an update on theSEF Work Plan. Professor McGregor outlined the process undertaken todevelop a work plan for the SEF and noted that the NDG subgroup had beenwidened to reflect SEF membership. He summarised the four work streams as:o Better linking of economic development and employability;o A review of the allocation of resources;o Measuring performance; ando The impact of welfare reforms on employability3. In order to progress work against these priorities it had been agreed to commissionsome research and evaluation to provide an evidence base for the next steps. ProfMcGregor noted that the NDG/SEF sub-group would be split to take forward differentaspects.4. Mr Moore thanked Professor McGregor and noted that it had taken time to build acommon ground between partners around the priorities and next steps. Heacknowledged that there would be a desire around the table to focus on action butaccepted that there was a need to have a common evidence base to inform the workwhich needed to happen. He hoped all stakeholders would be willing to facilitate andcontribute to the work as necessary.5. Mr Swinney expressed his support for the direction of travel but wanted to stress theneed for an onus to be on assessing the journey individuals have to make towardsemployment - making our concern person centred and not government centric. Twoquestions which should concern us being: Does every person who needed support receive it? Was that support effective and non-duplicative?6. Mr Swinney advised that he believed Scottish Government was taking this approach,and designing interventions that do not duplicate existing provision, but if this were notthe case, then he was keen to hear about it. The work might also identify gaps inprovision which would need to be filled. Mr Swinney expressed a willingness to receiveany and all feedback which needed to be heard in this regard.7. Ms Murray expressed an interest in seeing the research brief to understand how localgovernment can play into it fully and agreed with Mr Swinney about the person centredjourney approach. Ms Murray raised a question in relation to how we changed wherewe were and our model of provision, and noted that she had some engagement withSimeon Wood and Damian Yates.8. Professor McGregor agreed to share the finalised research specification.9. Mr Cornish welcomed the inclusion of a strand to include the 50+ age group. Onwelfare reform, he noted that there were SG/ UK Government pilots underway. It wouldbe helpful to play any learning from these into the research.10. Mr Smith welcomed the move towards an established evidence base howeveremphasised the need to improve employer engagement (which should be redefined asindustry engagement). The range of initiatives was confusing for employers and couldbe better joined up. There was a strong need to be clear what the ‘ask’ was and whatwas in it for industry alongside the wider principles of social responsibility.SEF minutes 5 September 2013 - final draft on 13 Nov 2013

11. Mr Swinney accepted the need to avoid multiple propositions to employers alongsidethe need to ensure that consumer requirements were met.12. Mr Moore emphasised the importance of the employer in this debate. He noted thatthere were not many private employers around the table and suggested the NDG/SEFsubgroup needed to be expanded.13. Professor McGregor acknowledged that we cannot design effective employabilityservices unless we understood demand and had good engagement with employers.14. Mr Russell pointed out that there were a range of contracts with different measurementregimes, making it difficult to compare one initiative with another, and questionedwhether our efforts were always well measured and transparent. He acknowledged thatthis approach was best achieved across the public sector.15. Professor Bownes noted that people needed to be in the right employment and not justany employment.16. Mr Borland noted that, while public agencies were good at engaging with those with whomthey already have a relationship, they are not so good at engaging with the majority ofemployers who are ‘on the outside’ of that loop. At present we tend to design aprogramme and then sell it to the employer which might be a simpler process but doesnot suit the employer. The conversation needed to be with businesses and be aimed atmeeting business needs.17. Mr McKelvie noted that in a client centric approach we needed to be cognisant of thefact that there were two clients and connecting those needs was where success lies.More time needed to be spent on diagnosis of the problem. Mr McKelvie also offered alink with the research work already done by the Commission (UKCES).18. Cllr McGuigan reemphasised the point that success lies where we could dovetailneeds. The paper was agreed.19. Mr Moore highlighted the UK Government’s new enterprise allowance scheme andnoted that SG and Cosla would have their own different initiatives. In the spirit of jointworking there was an ongoing need to better align our resources.20. Mr Cornish spoke about the need to build in awareness of disability into employabilitywork noting two particular issues from a UK Government perspective that might beuseful to discuss at a SEF meeting. The UK ‘disability confident’ campaign looking to share good practice and helpbusinesses look at why they should employ disabled people. UK Government Disabled Employment Strategy which it would be helpful togather Scottish views on.21. Cllr McGuigan noted that this was clearly a priority for many of us. Professor McGregorwas invited to comment on how this may be integrated into the work plan. ProfessorMcGregor noted that priority groups were covered under the allocation of resourceselement and under the effectiveness of performance. It was agreed that this would bethe best place to consider the issue.AGENDA ITEM 4: UnderemploymentSEF minutes 5 September 2013 - final draft on 13 Nov 2013

22. Cllr McGuigan invited Ms Sweeney to introduce the paper on Underemployment. MsSweeney began by acknowledging that the work priorities for SEF had already beenagreed. However the Scottish Parliament had, in their Committee report referred theissue to SEF for consideration. The Committee had defined underemployment as acontinuum of unemployment – this included skills underemployment and time-basedunderemployment. It was clear that the drivers of underemployment were economicand could present a high personal cost to the underemployed. Ms Sweeney noted thatthe wider environment for this debate included issues around the use of zero hourscontracts and changes to DWP conditionality on the horizon.23. Ms Sweeney asked SEF members to discuss whether this was an economic problemor whether SEF wanted to include it in the work plan. She suggested one potential wayof giving this focus was to progress it jointly with the LEDPF.24. Mr Swinney noted the heightened parliamentary interest in this area, but alsoacknowledged that SEF already had set priorities and there was a need to be veryfocused on what it was trying to achieve. Underemployment clearly had an economicdriver context as did the use of zero hours contracts. We should make it our businessto unravel some of these arrangements as the economy improves. Mr Sweeney alsonoted that underemployment had a gendered component with many women unable tofulfil employment potential because of wider factors such as caring responsibilities andother structural elements. SEFs focus should be around structural and not economicissues. With regards zero hours contract Mr Swinney noted that SG were consideringtheir role, looking at procurement legislation etc.25. Mr Moore acknowledged that this had been a helpful paper. Underemployment wasclearly an issue with big challenges for families and individuals. Mr Moore shared MrSwinney’s concerns. Underemployment was a function of the state of the economy andwe should be concerned with how this unwinds itself with economic recovery. HoweverMr Moore advised he was wary of adding to the SEF workload. Where it was relevantto the agreed priorities than it should be looked at. With regards zero hours contractsMr Moore acknowledged that these were a part of the workplace. He noted that VinceCable MP had a review ongoing about how they were being used with a view to takingaction thereafter.26. Professor McGregor noted that the issues raised could be categorised under threedifferent headings; skills underutilisation, zero hours and in-work conditionality. Thefirst was being dealt with by Paul McKelvie’s commission, and the second by the UKGovernment. He felt that in-work conditionality was already covered by the work planunder priority 4.27. Mr Smith noted that this issue was part of the wider economic challenges we facedhowever he was not convinced that it would be undone with economic recovery. It wasnoted that self employment was as relevant as zero hours contracts. Mr Smith felt inworkconditionality should very much be a SEF priority and that SEF should engagewith the LEDPF.28. Mr De Pellette felt this was a horizontal issue. He noted that pre recession underemploymentwas still an issue.29. Mr McKelvie noted that the joint skills committee covers this issue.30. Cllr McGuigan concluded that there was agreement not to pick up this issue specificallywithin the work plan but to cover aspects of it as relevant in the context of the prioritieswhich had already been agreed. He noted that this decision could be revisited ifSEF minutes 5 September 2013 - final draft on 13 Nov 2013

necessary at a future point. Mr Swinney would respond to the Committee in a jointletter agreed with Cllr McGuigan and Mr Moore.AGENDA ITEM 5: 2014-2020 European Structural and Investments Funds Programme31. Cllr McGuigan invited Mr Rankin from the Scottish Government to speak to the item.32. Mr Russell noted that the EU Audit and Compliance burden on partners wassignificant. He noted that the third sector was a genuine strategic partner.33. Mr Cornish stated that it would be useful for DWP to engage and input to the shadowboard. The issue of how £200m would be spent on youth unemployment in the West ofScotland was raised.34. It was agreed to keep abreast of the issue.AGENDA ITEM 6: AOB35. Mr Russell raised the issue of Scottish engagement with the DWP CommissioningStrategy consultation. Cllr McGuigan asked if we could come back to this.36. A meeting date in March would be circulated with an early copy of the minute.SEF minutes 5 September 2013 - final draft on 13 Nov 2013