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interviu Cawerilia 23 ivliss.<br />
_ qalbatono lela, bolo drois<br />
erT-erTi yvelaze metad rezonansuli<br />
da mtkivneuli Tema qarTuli sazogadoebisTvis<br />
religiuri umciresobebisaTvis<br />
samarTlebrivi statusis miniWebis sakiTxi<br />
iyo. is, ramac esoden gaaRiziana<br />
Cveni qveynis mosaxleoba, evrosabWos<br />
saparlamento asambleisTvis misasalmebeli<br />
Tema gamodga. rogorc am organizaciis<br />
monitoringis komitetis Tanamomxseneblebma<br />
ganacxades, `es aris niSvnelovani<br />
winsvla... es saqarTvelos mier<br />
Tavisufali aRmsareblobis uflebisa da<br />
religiuri tolerantobis principebis<br />
pativiscemas adasturebs~.<br />
Cndeba kiTxva, xom ar iyo evropuli<br />
organizaciis mxridan raime saxis zewola<br />
saqarTvelos xelisuflebaze am kanonis<br />
misaRebad?<br />
_ aramxolod am kuTxiT, aramed sxva<br />
mraval SemTxvevaSic xorcieldeba evropuli<br />
organizaciebis mxridan saqarTveloze, ase<br />
vTqvaT, `kulturuli~ zewola. saqarTvelos<br />
xelisuflebac asrulebs xolme am davalebebs,<br />
magram ara bolomde da ara saboloo<br />
wertilis dasmamde. anu, raRac nabijebi ki<br />
idgmeba xolme, magram saboloo Sedegamde<br />
ar midis. axlac ase moxda. es kanoni ki<br />
miiRes, magram amas araferi ar mohyveba.<br />
arc miwebs gadascemen sxva konfesiebs da<br />
arc eklesiebs. verc marTlmadideblobas<br />
gautoldebian isini saqarTveloSi verasdros.<br />
marTlmadidebloba iqneba wamyvani da upirvelesi<br />
Cvens qveyanaSi, rac ar unda moxdes<br />
da ra RonisZiebebic ar unda gatardes.<br />
qarTul eklesias veravin da veraferi ver<br />
moereva sabolood.<br />
sxvaTa Soris, ase iyo istoriuladac.<br />
yovelTvis xdeboda ise, rom patara saqarTvelo<br />
iZulebuli xdeboda, sxva qveynis interesebi<br />
gaeTvaliswinebina da raRac, im momentisTvis<br />
misTvis erTgvarad saziano, nabijebic gadaedga,<br />
magram gamosavali rTuli mdgomareobidan<br />
Semdeg yovelTvis Cndeboda da axlac<br />
gamoCndeba. ise, rom icodeT, evropuli<br />
organizaciebis rekomendaciebis gauTvaliswinebloba,<br />
maTze uaris Tqma Cveni mxridan,<br />
ruseTis wisqvilze daasxams wyals, vinaidan<br />
saqarTvelo aseT SemTxvevaSi evropuli TanamegobrobisTvis<br />
uRirs wevrad moiazreba.<br />
axla aseTi situaciaa da asea saWiro, mere<br />
ki mainc yvelaferi Seicvleba qarTvelebisTvis<br />
sasikeTod.<br />
_ anu, Tu davsvamT kiTxvas, ra<br />
moxdeba manam, sanam es dRe dadgeba,<br />
rogor isargebleben sxvadasxva religiuri<br />
umciresobebi<br />
iqneba...<br />
am kanoniT, Tqveni pasuxi<br />
_ veranairad ver isargebleben. me vxedav<br />
mxolod maT daregistrirebas da mets arafers.<br />
vimeoreb: verc eklesiebs daisakuTreben da<br />
verc miwebs. erTs ki wamoyofen Tavs, viTom<br />
raRaceebs moindomeben, magram verafersac<br />
ver miaRweven.<br />
am kanonis miRebiT evrosabWo dakmayofilda,<br />
sakuTari dadebiTi pozicia daafiqsira da<br />
morCa, meti araferi ar moxdeba. gagrZeleba<br />
am ambavs _ saqarTvelosTvis saziano gagr-<br />
Zeleba, ar mohyveba. ase rom, damSviddiT.<br />
_ sxvaTa Soris, mixeil maWavarianma<br />
ganacxada, somxuri mxare mzadaa qarTul<br />
eklesias somxeTSi igive samarTlebrivi<br />
statusi mianiWos, rac somxur eklesias<br />
aqvs saqarTveloSio. ramdenad Seesabameba<br />
es sinamdviles?<br />
_ ki, magram somxeTisTvis es Zalian<br />
saSiSia. maT xom Cveni kuTvnili miwebi aqvT<br />
mitacebuli da SesaniSnavad ician, rom es<br />
teritoriebi Cvenia. amitom frTxiloben, ise<br />
ar moxdes, rom am miwebis istoriuli mepatronisTvis<br />
dabrunebam mouwioT. amitomac<br />
da me getyviT Tqven...<br />
mkiTxvels yovel nomerSi vTavazobT intervius<br />
qarTvel winaswarmetyvelTan. igi isaubrebs mocemuli<br />
momentisTvis yvelaze metad aqtualur Temebze, Tumca<br />
qalbatoni lelas pasuxebi yovelTvis efuZneba<br />
ramdenime wlis win Caweril winaswarmetyvelebebs.<br />
jerjerobiT am kanonis miRebas ver vxedav.<br />
Tumca momavalSi maTac mouwevT am nabijis<br />
gadadgma da iqac swored iseTi Sedegi<br />
eqneba mas, rogoric CvenTan. anu ar imuSavebs.<br />
_ magram miwebs xom mainc davibrunebT?<br />
_ aucileblad, magram ara am kanonis<br />
safuZvelze.<br />
_ qalbatono lela, somxeTSi patriarq<br />
garegin II-is sawinaaRmdego aqcia<br />
daiwyo. adgilobrivi sazogadoebis nawili<br />
mis gadayenebas iTxovs, vinaidan igi am<br />
maRali wodebis tarebis Rirsad ar<br />
miaCniaT. am moZraobis sababad garegin<br />
II-is Cvens patriarqTan, ilia II-esTan<br />
Sexvedris amsaxveli videokadrebi iqca,<br />
romelSic somexTa sulieri winamZRolis<br />
marTlac Seuferebeli qcevis momentebia<br />
asaxuli. riT dasruldeba es<br />
wamowyeba? SeinarCunebs garegin II sapatriarqo<br />
savarZels?<br />
_ garegin II-es wyals Seuyeneben, magram<br />
ara imis gamo, rom Cvens uwmindess elaparaka<br />
Seufereblad. simarTle Tu gindaT, somxebs<br />
amis gamo didad ar dawyvetiaT guli. es<br />
mxolod sababia. mizezi ki ufro Rrmaa da<br />
is somxur Sidasamzareulomde midis. swored<br />
amis gamo somexi xalxi aramxolod patriarqs,<br />
mTavrobasac Secvlis.<br />
_ iehovas mowmeTa seqtam kanonis<br />
miRebis meore dResve axali strategia<br />
aamoqmeda. axla kardakar mxolod zrdasruli<br />
adamianebi ki ar dadian saqadageblad,<br />
aramed mcirewlovani bavSvebic.<br />
davijero, es nabiji ramenairad<br />
imuSavebs?<br />
_ ici ra, Tu adamiani rwmenaSi myaria,<br />
WeSmaritad swams da sjera sakuTari uflisa,<br />
mas qadagebis didostatic ki ver acTunebs<br />
da ver aurevs gonebas. ai sust da yalb<br />
morwmunes ki cTunebaSi daxelovnebuli adamianis<br />
qadageba arc sWirdeba, patara bavSvic<br />
mSvenivrad gadaiyvans sakuTar poziciaze.<br />
mokled, axali da gansakuTrebuli am<br />
strategiaSi araferia.<br />
_ qalbatono lela, msoflios erTerTma<br />
yvelaze saxelganTqmulma enciklopediam,<br />
inglisurma `britanikam~ qarTuli<br />
damwerlobis warmoSoba mesrop maStocs<br />
miawera, ramac qarTul sazogadoebaSi<br />
ukiduresi aRSfoTeba da guliswyroma<br />
gamoiwvia. ra SeiZleba gakeTdes<br />
am, rbilad rom vTqvaT, lafsusis aRmosafxvrelad?<br />
_ ra da rac bevrjer vTqvi: unda<br />
vweroT, gamovceT wignebi saqarTveloze, mis<br />
mezobel qveynebze, aRvweroT realuri istoria,<br />
vTargmnoT sxvadasxva enaze, gadaviRoT<br />
filmebi da gavavrceloT mTel msoflioSi,<br />
raTa gavacnoT mTel qveyanas sakuTari Tavi,<br />
Cveni istoria da is saxelmwifoebic, romlebic<br />
gars gvakravs da romlebsac Tundac<br />
erTxel hqoniaT Sexeba saqarTvelosTan. simarTle<br />
unda icodes mTelma msofliom. yvelas<br />
unda gavagebinoT, vin vin aris realurad.<br />
Tuki somxebi akeTeben imas, rom cru<br />
informaciebs avrceleben, yalb istorias<br />
aCeCeben aseT popularul da prestiJul<br />
gamomcemlobebs, Cven ra gviSlis xels, rom<br />
simarTle vacnoboT maT? Cven ratom ar<br />
SegviZlia `britanikis~ msgavs saxelganTqmul<br />
gamocemebs davukavSirdeT da CvenTvis sasargeblo,<br />
anu marTali informacia gavaJReroT?<br />
mondomebaa saWiro, Torem SeuZlebeli aq<br />
araferia.<br />
_ Tqven adre werdiT, rom es asec<br />
iqneba.<br />
_ diax, asea saWiro da asec moxdeba.<br />
filmebsac gadaiReben, wignebic daiwereba.<br />
_ rusi samxedro eqspertebi<br />
saqarTvelosa da ruseTs Soris axal<br />
mosalodnel saomar moqmedebebze alaparakdnen.<br />
maTi varaudiT agvistoSi axali<br />
omi daiwyeba, vinaidan rusulma samxedro<br />
dajgufebebma am kuTxiT garkveuli mzadeba<br />
daiwyes. igive aSinebT rus jariskacTa<br />
dedebs, romlebic gangaSs texen<br />
maTi Svilebis cxinvalis regionSi farulad<br />
gadayvanis Taobaze. ismis kiTxva:<br />
ramdenad Seesabameba jariskacTa dedebis<br />
informacia realobas? marTlac mzaddeba<br />
Tu ara raime saxis samxedro<br />
operacia saqarTvelos winaaRmdeg?<br />
_ netav, risi TaviRa aqvT rusebs? maT<br />
jer 2008 wlis agvistos omi ver mounelebiaT<br />
da merwmuneT, axali samxedro operaciis<br />
dawyebas veranairad ver SeZleben. es sul<br />
tyuili, amao fafxuria da meti araferi.<br />
xanZari aqvT wakidebuli da is ver CauqriaT<br />
da...<br />
_ natos generalurma mdivanma rasmusenma<br />
ruseTs mouwoda, gaauqmos afxazeTisa<br />
da egreT wodebuli, samxreT<br />
oseTis damoukideblobis aRiarebis gadawyvetileba.<br />
Tqveni ramdenime wlis winandeli<br />
winaswarmetyveleba gamaxsenda...<br />
_ me nawinaswarmetyvelebi maqvs 2008<br />
wlis 28 agvistos, rom `ruseTis mier dadgmuli<br />
cirki male damTavrdeba isev ruseTis<br />
damarcxebiT, osebsa da afsuebs ki xelSi,<br />
vxedav, SerCebaT ukanono, faratina, cru<br />
qaRaldi maTi viTom damoukideblobisa. ai,<br />
es aris bedis ironia marTlac. rac ar<br />
gergebaT, ar SegergebaT! rac Seni ar aris,<br />
kosmosi ar SegarCens~. ase rom, ruseTs<br />
mouwevs amis gakeTeba.<br />
_ germanelebma evropuli sazogadoebis<br />
zewolis gamo ukan waiRes sakuTari<br />
gadawyvetileba, mieniWebinaT<br />
vladimer putinisTvis jildo germaniaruseTis<br />
urTierTobebis ganviTarebaSi<br />
Setanili wvlilisTvis, rac oqros kvadrigiT<br />
aRiniSneba. putins es, Tqma ar<br />
unda, karg xasiaTze ar daayenebda. gadadgams<br />
Tu ara igi raime saxis sapasuxo<br />
nabijebs da mohyveba Tu ara am ambavs<br />
gagrZeleba?<br />
_ araferi gagrZeleba ar mohyveba. putins<br />
mouwevs wyenis Caylapva.<br />
_ bolo dros msoflioSi cnobili<br />
mravali eqsperti, maT Soris, nobelis<br />
premiis laureatebic ki, dolaris gardauval<br />
kraxze saubroben.<br />
_ sul tyuili saubaria. dolari isev<br />
gaimyarebs poziciebs. gaixseneT 2008 wlis 9<br />
martis winaswarmetyveleba: `vxedav dolaris<br />
gamyarebas msoflioSi. dolari evros ar<br />
dauTmobs~...<br />
_ modiT, mkiTxvels aseve ramdenime<br />
wlis win warmoTqmuli winaswarmetyvelebac<br />
SevaxsenoT evros momavalTan dakav-<br />
SirebiT.<br />
_ ki, batono: 2008 wlis 1 martis xedva:<br />
`vxedav, momavalSi evro ar iqneba evropis<br />
qveynebis erTiani valuta. didi britaneTiviT<br />
yvela moindomebs sakuTari fuli hqondes.<br />
es droc dadgeba da winaswarmetyveleba<br />
asruldeba~.<br />
_ qalbatono lela, erT-erT mkiTxveli<br />
biometriuli pasportebisa da ID<br />
baraTebis usafrTxoebiT interesdeba.<br />
rogorc Cans, mosaxleobaSi Rrmad aqvs<br />
fesvi gadgmuli SiSs raRac mistiuri<br />
kodis Taobaze, romelic bneli Zalebis<br />
niSnis matarebeli gaxlavT. ra saSiSroebis<br />
matarebeli SeiZleba iyos axali<br />
pasportebi da piradi baraTebi?<br />
_ aranairi saSiSroeba, aranairi safrTxe<br />
axal pasportebsa da ID baraTebSi ar aris.<br />
es axali miRwevebis, maRali teqnologiebis<br />
saukunea, yvelaferi kompiuterul sistemaze<br />
gadadis, maT Soris, pasportebic da es arc<br />
gasakviria da arc saxifaTo. mec aviReb<br />
axal pasports da mSvenivrad vicxovreb, imitom,<br />
rom aranairi saidumlo, bneli Zalebis<br />
niSnis matarebeli kodi ar arsebobs. es<br />
zRaparia.<br />
mTavari redaqtori: irma gelaSvili<br />
gazeTi registrirebulia vake-saburTalos raionul sagadasaxado inspeqciaSi.<br />
gazeTSi da vebgverdze gamoyenebuli masalebis da fotoebis gadabeWdva-gamoqveyneba<br />
redaqciis Tanxmobis gareSe akrZalulia. saavtoro uflebebi daculia.<br />
www.lelakakulia.ge / el-fosta: lelakakulia@yahoo.com<br />
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