Robert Adams Thermal Magnetic Motor
Thermo Magnetic Motor
I have unpublished details for a thermo magnetic motor from New
Zealand. It is a later Robert Adams magnetic motor design that was
reported to produce infinite energy when calibrated properly and Dr
Adams was not allowed to manufacture the device on the open market.
Unlike most magnetic motors, this one is not a toy. This is unlike any
magnetic motor most of you have ever heard of and may be a design
which can be utilized by us for free electricity and hot water.
There are some missing details, but I think I have enough details that we
can replicate this machine, since we have some smart guys in the forum
who will probably be more than happy to help on this project.
Missing Information
Missing Information:
1) Wiring Schematics
2) Optimum timing of the motor.
3) Method used for timing the motor.
4) Photos of a working setup.
According to an engineer friend of mine in Australia we have enough
information to duplicate this motor. The most important details I think
we have.
USB Rotary Encoder
Phidgets USB Rotary Encoder RobotShop
This new technology can be used to calibrate and run our motor. It is a
fantastic system.
Teaser
Secret Alloy Discussed:
Supposedly there is a very secret aspect to the rotor that if not utilized
will prevent the proper function of the thermo aspect of the motor. As I
said earlier, the rotor has holes for the magnets on the side of the rotor
and not on the end of the rotor like his earlier versions. There are eight
equidistant holes drilled through the side of the rotor next to the outer
edge of the rotor. The magnets are placed in every other hole and the
remaining holes are plugged with an alloy plug. It is important that this
alloy is made of a particular substance. Anyway, the alloy to be used is
not bismouth and we will leave it a secret for another day.
Rotor Specs
Rotor Specs:
Rotor should be made from non conductive and non magnetic material.
(Aluminum displays strange magnetic properties that are not desirable.)
6 inch diameter rotor.
Rotor must be 1" in thickness.
Rotor must be water proof since there are likely to be water leaks from
time to time.
Drill 8 holes equidistant through the side of your rotor.
Holes are 7/8" holes.
PCD of 4.75"
Sweet Spot / Energy Output Optimum RPM
Sweet Spot:
These motors can be made to run at very high rates of speed and it was
originally thought that the higher speeds were beneficial. According to
my source, the higher speeds are not desirable and he recommended a
sweet spot for this motor of 1820 rpm for optimum energy output.
Golden Ratio
You've probably heard it said that the original Adams Motor was a
golden ratio motor. Well, the golden ratio does not apply to this motor.
Heat Protection
Quote:
Originally Posted by sucahyo
I would love to read any of Dr Robert Adams work .
Maybe a hint of what sacred geometric structure, how he can transfer
heat from transistor and coil, how his motor do not heat up while
generating many heat.
Hi Sucahyo,
The thermo motor was plagued by the heat problem like everyone
else, so he found a simple way to overcome it. According to my
source, they used the largest heat sinks they could find and stacked
them. They used as many of them as necessary to protect his
sensitive electronics such as but not limited to mosfets and such.
When people were shown a working unit, great care was taken to
conceal some important details. Wiring was always disconnected and
the alloy plugs removed.
More Voltage
Quote:
Originally Posted by sucahyo
From what I recall, he mention that while the generator produce heat, the
rotor is cool?
In term of efficiency, I also read somewhere that more input voltage give
more efficiency.
Hi Sucahyo,
Yes, to get high efficiency required fairly high input voltages. For
instance, for a 10 KW unit with a 6" rotor and (4) (7/8"X1")
neodyne magnets 360 volts DC was found to be very efficient
operating voltage while 720 volts DC was found to be better. These
particular voltages were appreciated since they could be chopped
into 240 volts sine wave without the need for a setup transformer in
the conversion to household AC.
Your Question:
From what I recall, he mention that while the generator produce
heat, the rotor is cool?
Response:
On the earlier non thermal motors the complete setups ran cool. On
the later thermo units, there was a lot of heat generated but many of
the prototype rotors were made from wood products so you may be
right about the rotor running cool. I don't have the answer to this
question.
The large stacked heat sinks protected the mosfets and other
sensitive electronics, and then there were other tricks too. Water was
pumped through each core which caused the generation of extremely
high heat temperatures and so each stator core coil assembly was
bathed in oil to prevent the coils from overheating. Each coil was
encased in a copper tube assembly full of oil to help prevent
overheating of the coils.
More info to be released shortly. I'm in the process of trying to
summarize some notes.
Tuning Fun
This motor is going to be especially fun to tune properly, since the two
drive stators are also the pickup coils. So, the equipment we choose to
run our setup such as but not limited to usb rotory encoder device will
have to be programmed to send electricity to the stators at a specific time
interval then be ready to receive high voltage from the coils at another
interval. As I said earlier there is a sweet spot of 1820 rpm @ 60 hz run
speed. I forgot to mention the 60 hz before. There are also some other
sweet spots which were kept a secret from us. We have no idea what they
were and/or what they were related to.
So, this motor is not without its complexities and it holds many secrets
which hopefully we will be able to tap into and understand later on
Wire Resistance
When winding coils, it's all about the resistance. On the older four coil
motors 36 ohms/coil was required for a total overall resistance of 144
ohms for all four coils. Well, now we are using two coils instead of four
and the total resistance required has not changed. Soooo?
Many replicators failed to follow this rule of thumb in the past and so
their motors did not produce positive results and they then blamed the
inventor and said he was a fraud.
Due To Lack of Interest
Due to Lack of Interest
There appears to be a serious lack of interest in this thread, so the rest of
the information will not be posted here. Thanks!!
Firing Stator
When firing the stators, it's very important to only fire a stator on one
side of the magnet at a time. What we have in this particular setup is a
rotor with stators on both sides of the magnet. We have two stators, one
on the north pole side and one on the south pole side of the rotor. The
stators are separated by one another by 180 degrees. This is a very
important aspect also. After experimenting with many different
prototypes and setups, the inventor discovered that two stator/pickup
coils were much more efficient than any other combination. He was also
able to achieve OU to a much higher level and figures from his later
machines were never published because they were so high.
Summary:
1) Fire stators on only one side of the magnet at a time!!
2) Number of stator/pickup coils is two. Stator and pickup coil are the
same coils!!
3) Have one stator on North pole side and the other on South pole side of
the rotor.
4) Make sure all north poles are on the same side of the rotor.
5) Make sure stators are located 180 degrees apart from one another on
opposite sides of rotor.
Thermo Motor Housing & Rotor
The thermo motor housing is very unique from several aspects. It can be
made out of wood products and this is true with the rotor also. Many of
the prototypes used wood products but if wood products are used care
must be taken to either choose water proof wood products or seal your
wood products so they are not affected adversely by water conditions.
Perspex and other plastics can also be used. It is important to use non
magnetic screws such as stainless steel and/or brass where possible for
best results. Also, the drive shaft and rotor mount bracket should also be
made of non magnetic materials such as but not limited to brass or
stainless. The structure of the motor housing is like an open ended box.
It's a complete box type structure with only one side open. The rationale
for this design was not imparted to me. Anyway, it's a plain easily made
structure that supposedly works very well. I don't have specific
dimensions of the box, so we'll have to come up with our own size for
that. When building your box, you'll have to keep in mind that your rotor
is 6", (6 inches), in diameter. The stator cores are approximately 3.5
inches in length and are mounted through the side of box. You have two
stators, one on each side of the rotor, so this will give you a frame of
reference for the size of your box. You also need to keep in mind that this
is a water motor and will need to be serviced from time to time with
respect to water connections and proactive leak policing, so you must
make the box a size that will allow you easy servicing of your internal
parts. I would suggest a box where the closed end opposite the open end
of the box can be removed fairly easily for servicing. Of course the other
ends of the box will have to be permanently fixed for obvious reasons.
Rotor needs to be made out of 1 inch thick material.
Material used for box must be at least 3/4 inch in thickness. One inch
would be better.
Remember this motor has the capability of running in excess of 5,000
pm, so the housing must be very firm and stable indeed.
Stator Core
The stator core is 3/4 inch in diameter and at least 3.5 inches in length. It
needs to be a one piece core made out of pure iron with as little carbon in
it as possible. No alloys should be in it. This is a water core system, so
there will need to be a 3/8 inch hole drilled through the center of the core
from one end to approximately 3/4 of an inch from the other end of the
core. A 9/16 inch hole then needs to be drilled through the side at the
closed end of the core to meet up with the 3/8 inch hole through the
center of the core. Both holes need to be tapped for water fittings. Prior
to drilling the holes, a taper needs to be added to the core on the end that
will mate up with the magnet. The end of the core that will correspond
with the magnet needs to be true, flat, and polished. The magnet contact
end of the core must be taper leaving the flat end approximately 1/2 the
diameter of the magnet. There is some sort of vortex aetheric force
allowed at the tip of the core by configuring it in this manner. This is a
very important aspect!!
Also, the outside tapped end of the core needs to be threaded for magnet
gap adjustment. If you are going to have the stator sticking through your
housing, you might want to consider adding the thickness of your box to
the overall length of your stator core. Otherwise, you may have a stator
core that is to short. You might also want to place your core in the box
and figure the optimum point for your side hole on your core before
drilling it. You can mark the optimum point for drilling and drill it later.
Otherwise you may have located the hole such that it may not line up
properly with where you wanted it to connect with your copper water
tubing.
Coil
The coils need to be wound with a 3/4 inch open center to accommodate
the stator core later. The approximate size of the coil is 2 inches X 2.25
inches. One of the coils needs to be wound clockwise while the other
needs to be wound counter clockwise since one is on the South pole of the
magnet and the other is on the North pole. Bear in mind that we don't
know if this is a repulsion situation or an attraction situation. This was
another secret kept from us. So, experimentation must be done with both
and utilize the method that produces the best results. It is thought by
someone that repulsion was his method of choice and that may well be
the case. The type of wire needed is .5 and that is probably a metric
designation since it is a designation from New Zealand. Also, when
winding your coils remember that it's not the number of winds but the
resistance that counts. So, check for resistance on your coil while winding
it.
Bobbins
The bobbins are very easy to make from pvc pipe and use 1/4" ABS
plastic sheet for your sideboards. I use the thinnest pvc pipe available
and then cut the ABS side boards out of my flat sheet with a adjustable
hole saw. I cut them about 1/4" wider than I want them to be and turn
them down to the right specifications later on a lathe. I then drill the
holes in the side board disks to the right size with a compound bit. The
pvc pipe fits snugly into the hole in the disk. I also use super glue to
permanently affix the sideboards to the pvc pipe.
Anyway I forgot to mention that the inside diameter of the pvc pipe is 3/4
inch, so it fits right over the outside of the stator core perfectly nice.
Balanced
The rotor needs to be perfectly balanced and also the drive shaft needs to
be perfectly true as well because the stator cores are going to be almost
right on the rotor. Therefore if the shaft is bent and/or the rotor is not
balanced perfectly the stator and rotor will hit each other. Also, this
motor has the potential of turning at some serious speeds in excess of
5,000 rpm, so if it's out of balance it would be very problematic to say the
least. So, pick your drive shaft wisely and make sure it's true; Drill your
rotor perfectly through dead center and make sure it's balanced
perfectly. You need to make sure that you drill your eight holes in exactly
the proper place also or the rotor will be off balance. There is absolutely
no room for any wobble on this rotor!! You need to make sure the depth
of your magnets and alloy inserts are proper too so that nothing is
sticking out to snag a stator. Also, you need to be very careful when
machining your alloy inserts to make sure each of them is true and the
same weight or you'll have an offbalance condition just from that. Some
guy reported his machine was turning at 10,000 rpm and that leaves no
margin for error.
Interconnected Stators
The stators are interconnected to one another via copper tubing. There is
a water reservoir and water is continuously circulated through each of
the two stators via a water pump and the attached copper tubing. Each
of the two stators have a water inlet hole at the back and a water outlet
hole 3/4 of an inch from the magnet contact point on the front side of the
stator.
Magnet Size
Very good results were achieved with 3/4" X 1" magnets. Some of the
later motors used 7/8" X 1".
When using 3/4" magnets, the stator should be 1/2 the diameter of the
magnet.
When using magnets exceeding 3/4" in diameter the stator should be
tapered to 3/4 of the diameter of the magnet.
Purpose of Water Use?
Water Serves 2 Purposes:
#1) Water takes the massive aetheric heat buildup away from the the
cores and
coils.
#2) Water takes on a massive electrical charge itself and acts as the
magnetic conductor between the north and south poles of the magnets.
My Gut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slovenia
Very good results were achieved with 3/4" X 1" magnets. Some of the
later motors used 7/8" X 1".
When using 3/4" magnets, the stator should be 1/2 the diameter of the
magnet.
When using magnets exceeding 3/4" in diameter the stator should be
tapered to 3/4 of the diameter of the magnet.
My gut tells me to go with 1/2 the magnet face diameter for the
tapered tip of the stator core. I feel this is very important.
Magnet Suggestion
For my money, I would suggest that the 3/4" X 1" neodyne magnets
should be more than adequate. Great results were achieved with this
particular size of magnet. The inventor was very happy with this
particular size of magnet.
Strange Phenomena
Some of the later motors exhibited some other strange characteristics.
They displayed the characteristic of becoming weightless. Yes, on several
occasions the motors became weightless and went airborne. On at least
one occasion it was reported that the motor went all the way to the
ceiling at which point it disconnected from its power source and fell to
the floor. I had never heard this reported before with reference to these
types of motors.
Easy Drive Shaft Configuration
I used a 1/2 inch threaded 304L stainless steel rod for my drive shaft. I
studied the option of mounting a hub onto the side of my rotor, but was
unable to find the right type available for my needs and didn't want to
have to machine one from scratch. So, I was looking for expedient
options and found one which is not ideal but will work well for a
prototype. The 1/2 inch threaded rod is what I finally arrived at for a
prototype motor. It is a much easier and cheaper method. You still need
two large stainless washers so that you can have a washer on each side of
the rotor. You then need four stainless steel nuts, so that you can force
the washers tightly in place to the side of the rotor. The second nut on
each side will enable you to lock the nuts in place. I would also use
Locktite to ensure your nuts don't loosen when the rotor is spinning at a
high rpm. I utilized a brass spacer sleeve on each end of the machine
where the threaded rod came in contact with the roller bearings. The
sleeve travels a lot more smoothly against the rollers than did the
threaded rod. For roller bearings I'd choose fairly large round ball
bearings and not needle bearings. The needle variety are terrible for this
application. Anyway, the bronze sleeve needs to be locked in place with a
nut on the inside of the motor housing on both ends. You want to use a
locking sleeve stop on the outside of the motor housing on both ends of
the threaded rod. Then tighten your inner two nuts against the bronze
sleeve forcing it against the outer locking sleeve. This works very well.
As far as the usb rotary encoder, I have no idea how to apply it to my
needs yet. I'm waiting for further feedback from my engineering friend.
I'll share more when I have it.
Secret Alloy
Material Fishing Sinkers Are Made Of. You want the pure stuff, (i.e.: no
alloys added to it)!!
You'll need four plugs made from this material and they need to be the
exact size of your magnets and perfectly balanced so as not to throw off
the balance of your rotor. They need to be the exact length of one another
and the exact width of one another.
Energy Storage
The inventor preferred high voltage industrial type capacitors. They
worked exceptionally well for him. These of course are very expensive
and potentially very dangerous.
Other folks using his setups are using battery banks to capture the
energy and store it. These work very well also and are somewhat
expensive too if you buy good ones. It's my understanding that only one
bank of batteries is necessary for this type motor.
There are many differing rules of thumb out there.
Anyway, when you are using a battery bank there is a proper protocol to
use to ensure the most efficient use of the storage system and it was never
made clear to me. This is a very important aspect to get right also. So,
maybe some of the experts will shed some more light in this area.
Also, with this particular system we are generating very hot water and if
we don't cool it before recirculating it through the system, we can easily
make steam which can also be utilized for running a steam generator or
something else. We can always use the hot water for taking a shower.
This is a very good unique system.
Self Runner
This machine was reported to be a self runner. It took the mains to get it
started of course, but once it was going it generated a lot more energy
than was needed to run it.
Armor Board
Armor board is used by some to build this particular motor. Armor
board is a very expensive particle board type board. It has some very
interesting characteristics, but the only characteristic we are interested
in is the fact that it is waterproof. Armor board is relatively hard to
machine but when machined properly makes a very good rotor. It also is
a great material to use for the frame of the motor. Marine plywood
would of course also be okay for use on the frame but not for the rotor.
Plywood is not a good option for the rotor since in many cases there are
voids within the plywood that make it almost impossible to balance
properly. So, armor board is a very good choice for the rotor. Particle
board will work nicely until you spring a leak with this water motor
system and that is very likely indeed. So, remember to use only
waterproof materials when fabricating your motor housing and rotor.
Also remember not to use any metals within the framework and/or rotor
other than brass or stainless steel. Don't use any aluminum since it does
exhibit some very strange magnetic phenomenon that are undesirable.
The undesirable phenomenon were not shared with me.
Metric Wire Sizes Given
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slovenia
I do know that Adams recommended .5 wire size for the 1050 KW motors
and .35 for anything less than that.
The wire sizes given were in mm, so .5mm for 10 KW 50 KW
motors and .35mm for anything less than 10 KW. One chap uses .
4mm and says he's not getting good results.
I imagine that the wire size is not the problem in this case. There is
little margin for error in the tuning of this device!! If tuned
improperly you just won't see good results.
Piggybacked Rotor Systems
It's my understanding that these separate rotor systems can be
piggybacked into multiple rotor systems for much more power output,
something like the Harold Aspden systems but not the same really. No
particular detail was given in this area. Anyway, if you look at Harold
Aspden's multirotor systems it might give you some ideas about how
these rotors could be assembled into a multiple high output
arrangement.
Recap on Core Material
Use pure iron if possible for your core material.
The lead plugs referred to are something entirely different. The lead
inserts go between the magnets in the rotor. There are (8) holes in the
rotor and every other hole is for a magnet. the remaining holes in the
rotor are for the lead plugs. The lead plugs are the exact same size as the
magnets and must be perfectly balanced or they will throw the balance of
the rotor off. The balance of the rotor is a critical factor because the air
gap between the magnets and the cores is only .040. There is no
allowance for rotor wobble here.
Recap on Coil Location
The north and south poles of all the magnets are utilized in this motor.
There is a core coil assembly on the north pole side of the rotor and (1)
core coil assembly on the south pole of the magnet. Both of the
electromagnet assemblies are separated by 180 degrees. This is also
critical.
The north poles of the magnets are all on the same side of the rotor. All
the south poles of the magnets are on the other side of the rotor.
There were some misunderstandings, so that is why I'm recapping!!
24 AWG Wire
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalightwithin
10kW50kW
24AWG
Thanks!!
Yes, 24 awg wire is the right wire to use for the 1050 KW machines
& 27 awg for machines less than that.
.5mm 10KW and higher machines
.35mm Less than 10KW machines
Conversion Site:
AWG to Metric Conversion Chart
Recap on Motor Housing & Rotor
Use only nonconductive material for housing and/or rotor.
Remember the water proof aspect!!
Drive shaft and hub need to be either brass or non magnetic stainless.
Don't use any aluminum either on the rotor or in the motor housing!!
Someone needed clarification.
Magnets
Remember we are using both sides of the magnets with this motor. This
particular aspect is what allows this motor to be extraordinary. The
water conduit between the north and south poles of the magnets is also of
great importance.
Remember that the stators have to be separated from one another by 180
degrees and also that they are on opposite sides of the rotor!! Also, you
only have (2) stators with this machine and those (2) stators also act as
the generator coils too.
Coil Winding Direction
This is also very important!! One of the coils is left wound while the
other is right wound. I was told which goes with north and which goes
with south pole magnets, but I am unable to find those particular notes.
Anyway, it is thought that Adams used repulsion in these particular
motors, so we want to repel the magnets with our stators and not attract
them. Anyway, I'll continue to look for those notes because it is
paramount that we wind the coils the proper direction or the exercise is
futile.
The north pole magnet side coil is wound one direction while the south
pole magnet side coil is wound the opposite direction.
I'll try to find the proper particulars and get back to you.
Coil Winding Direction (Clockwise & Counterclockwise)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slovenia
This is also very important!! One of the coils is left wound while the other
is right wound. I was told which goes with north and which goes with
south pole magnets, but I am unable to find those particular notes.
Anyway, it is thought that Adams used repulsion in these particular
motors, so we want to repel the magnets with our stators and not attract
them. Anyway, I'll continue to look for those notes because it is
paramount that we wind the coils the proper direction or the exercise is
futile.
The north pole magnet side coil is wound one direction while the south
pole magnet side coil is wound the opposite direction.
I'll try to find the proper particulars and get back to you.
I'm unable to find the notes referring to which coils are wound
which way, but I woke up the other night after much thought and
I'm pretty sure I was told to wind the coil on the stator facing the
north pole magnet clockwise and to wind the coil on the stator facing
the south pole magnet counter clockwise. This may or may not be
right, but I feel it is right.
Water Lines
Water lines inside motor housing that conduct water from the outlets of
both stators need to be located on the outside front of each stator for easy
maintenance. If you spring a water leak you don't want to yank the back
of your housing off. You want to be able to get in there fast and correct
your problem with minimum effort and minimum frustration.
Anyway, as stated earlier in the thread, the motor housing is a box with
the front end of the box open. This is a square box, so the bottom, top,
back, and sides of the box are the same exact dimensions. For now I'll let
you choose your own dimensions. You should have a pretty good idea
from the diagrams how it must be done.
The water lines come out the side of the stators approximately 3/4" from
the end of the stator core facing the magnet. You can make the back of
the stator core a long as you need. Allow for gap adjustment. Remember
that the coil is 2.25" X 2".
Water Pump Scenario:
You need to have a water reservoir and a pump to circulate water from
the reservoir to the cores and then back to the reservoir for recirculation.
You can pull off any hot water you want to use from the reservoir for
other needs if you like. If you are not going to utilize the hot water for
anything, you need to find a way to cool it down before recirculating it
back through the stators.
Drive Shaft Diameter
It's a good idea to make the drive shaft 3/4" diameter but if you choose to
make it less you probably shouldn't make it less than 1/2" diameter. The
length of the shaft is up to you. Depending on your timing mechanism,
you may want it longer or shorter than I might prescribe. So, I'll leave
that up to you.
Shaft Collars:
Use shaft collars on the outside of both bearings on the outside of the
motor housing, to keep the shaft from having any side movement. This
will prevent your stator cores and magnets from getting together at 3,000
rpm.
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