Robert Adams Thermal Magnetic Motor - The Hydrogen Shop

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Robert Adams Thermal Magnetic Motor - The Hydrogen Shop

Robert Adams Thermal Magnetic Motor

Thermo Magnetic Motor

I have unpublished details for a thermo magnetic motor from New

Zealand. It is a later Robert Adams magnetic motor design that was

reported to produce infinite energy when calibrated properly and Dr

Adams was not allowed to manufacture the device on the open market.

Unlike most magnetic motors, this one is not a toy. This is unlike any

magnetic motor most of you have ever heard of and may be a design

which can be utilized by us for free electricity and hot water.

There are some missing details, but I think I have enough details that we

can replicate this machine, since we have some smart guys in the forum

who will probably be more than happy to help on this project.

Missing Information

Missing Information:

1) Wiring Schematics

2) Optimum timing of the motor.

3) Method used for timing the motor.

4) Photos of a working setup.

According to an engineer friend of mine in Australia we have enough


information to duplicate this motor. The most important details I think

we have.

USB Rotary Encoder

Phidgets USB Rotary Encoder ­ RobotShop

This new technology can be used to calibrate and run our motor. It is a

fantastic system.

Teaser

Secret Alloy Discussed:

Supposedly there is a very secret aspect to the rotor that if not utilized

will prevent the proper function of the thermo aspect of the motor. As I

said earlier, the rotor has holes for the magnets on the side of the rotor

and not on the end of the rotor like his earlier versions. There are eight

equidistant holes drilled through the side of the rotor next to the outer

edge of the rotor. The magnets are placed in every other hole and the

remaining holes are plugged with an alloy plug. It is important that this

alloy is made of a particular substance. Anyway, the alloy to be used is

not bismouth and we will leave it a secret for another day.

Rotor Specs


Rotor Specs:

Rotor should be made from non conductive and non magnetic material.

(Aluminum displays strange magnetic properties that are not desirable.)

6 inch diameter rotor.

Rotor must be 1" in thickness.

Rotor must be water proof since there are likely to be water leaks from

time to time.

Drill 8 holes equidistant through the side of your rotor.

Holes are 7/8" holes.

PCD of 4.75"

Sweet Spot / Energy Output Optimum RPM

Sweet Spot:

These motors can be made to run at very high rates of speed and it was

originally thought that the higher speeds were beneficial. According to

my source, the higher speeds are not desirable and he recommended a

sweet spot for this motor of 1820 rpm for optimum energy output.

Golden Ratio


You've probably heard it said that the original Adams Motor was a

golden ratio motor. Well, the golden ratio does not apply to this motor.

Heat Protection

Quote:

Originally Posted by sucahyo

I would love to read any of Dr Robert Adams work .

Maybe a hint of what sacred geometric structure, how he can transfer

heat from transistor and coil, how his motor do not heat up while

generating many heat.

Hi Sucahyo,

The thermo motor was plagued by the heat problem like everyone

else, so he found a simple way to overcome it. According to my

source, they used the largest heat sinks they could find and stacked

them. They used as many of them as necessary to protect his

sensitive electronics such as but not limited to mosfets and such.

When people were shown a working unit, great care was taken to

conceal some important details. Wiring was always disconnected and

the alloy plugs removed.

More Voltage


Quote:

Originally Posted by sucahyo

From what I recall, he mention that while the generator produce heat, the

rotor is cool?

In term of efficiency, I also read somewhere that more input voltage give

more efficiency.


Hi Sucahyo,

Yes, to get high efficiency required fairly high input voltages. For

instance, for a 10 KW unit with a 6" rotor and (4) (7/8"X1")

neodyne magnets 360 volts DC was found to be very efficient

operating voltage while 720 volts DC was found to be better. These

particular voltages were appreciated since they could be chopped

into 240 volts sine wave without the need for a setup transformer in

the conversion to household AC.

Your Question:

From what I recall, he mention that while the generator produce

heat, the rotor is cool?

Response:

On the earlier non thermal motors the complete setups ran cool. On

the later thermo units, there was a lot of heat generated but many of

the prototype rotors were made from wood products so you may be

right about the rotor running cool. I don't have the answer to this

question.

The large stacked heat sinks protected the mosfets and other

sensitive electronics, and then there were other tricks too. Water was

pumped through each core which caused the generation of extremely

high heat temperatures and so each stator core coil assembly was

bathed in oil to prevent the coils from overheating. Each coil was

encased in a copper tube assembly full of oil to help prevent

overheating of the coils.

More info to be released shortly. I'm in the process of trying to

summarize some notes.


Tuning Fun

This motor is going to be especially fun to tune properly, since the two

drive stators are also the pickup coils. So, the equipment we choose to

run our setup such as but not limited to usb rotory encoder device will

have to be programmed to send electricity to the stators at a specific time

interval then be ready to receive high voltage from the coils at another

interval. As I said earlier there is a sweet spot of 1820 rpm @ 60 hz run

speed. I forgot to mention the 60 hz before. There are also some other

sweet spots which were kept a secret from us. We have no idea what they

were and/or what they were related to.

So, this motor is not without its complexities and it holds many secrets

which hopefully we will be able to tap into and understand later on

Wire Resistance

When winding coils, it's all about the resistance. On the older four coil

motors 36 ohms/coil was required for a total overall resistance of 144

ohms for all four coils. Well, now we are using two coils instead of four

and the total resistance required has not changed. Soooo?

Many replicators failed to follow this rule of thumb in the past and so

their motors did not produce positive results and they then blamed the


inventor and said he was a fraud.

Due To Lack of Interest

Due to Lack of Interest

There appears to be a serious lack of interest in this thread, so the rest of

the information will not be posted here. Thanks!!

Firing Stator

When firing the stators, it's very important to only fire a stator on one

side of the magnet at a time. What we have in this particular setup is a

rotor with stators on both sides of the magnet. We have two stators, one

on the north pole side and one on the south pole side of the rotor. The

stators are separated by one another by 180 degrees. This is a very

important aspect also. After experimenting with many different

prototypes and setups, the inventor discovered that two stator/pickup

coils were much more efficient than any other combination. He was also

able to achieve OU to a much higher level and figures from his later

machines were never published because they were so high.

Summary:

1) Fire stators on only one side of the magnet at a time!!

2) Number of stator/pickup coils is two. Stator and pickup coil are the

same coils!!


3) Have one stator on North pole side and the other on South pole side of

the rotor.

4) Make sure all north poles are on the same side of the rotor.

5) Make sure stators are located 180 degrees apart from one another on

opposite sides of rotor.

Thermo Motor Housing & Rotor


The thermo motor housing is very unique from several aspects. It can be

made out of wood products and this is true with the rotor also. Many of

the prototypes used wood products but if wood products are used care

must be taken to either choose water proof wood products or seal your

wood products so they are not affected adversely by water conditions.

Perspex and other plastics can also be used. It is important to use non

magnetic screws such as stainless steel and/or brass where possible for

best results. Also, the drive shaft and rotor mount bracket should also be

made of non magnetic materials such as but not limited to brass or

stainless. The structure of the motor housing is like an open ended box.

It's a complete box type structure with only one side open. The rationale

for this design was not imparted to me. Anyway, it's a plain easily made

structure that supposedly works very well. I don't have specific

dimensions of the box, so we'll have to come up with our own size for

that. When building your box, you'll have to keep in mind that your rotor

is 6", (6 inches), in diameter. The stator cores are approximately 3.5

inches in length and are mounted through the side of box. You have two

stators, one on each side of the rotor, so this will give you a frame of

reference for the size of your box. You also need to keep in mind that this

is a water motor and will need to be serviced from time to time with

respect to water connections and proactive leak policing, so you must

make the box a size that will allow you easy servicing of your internal

parts. I would suggest a box where the closed end opposite the open end

of the box can be removed fairly easily for servicing. Of course the other

ends of the box will have to be permanently fixed for obvious reasons.

Rotor needs to be made out of 1 inch thick material.

Material used for box must be at least 3/4 inch in thickness. One inch

would be better.

Remember this motor has the capability of running in excess of 5,000


pm, so the housing must be very firm and stable indeed.

Stator Core

The stator core is 3/4 inch in diameter and at least 3.5 inches in length. It

needs to be a one piece core made out of pure iron with as little carbon in

it as possible. No alloys should be in it. This is a water core system, so

there will need to be a 3/8 inch hole drilled through the center of the core

from one end to approximately 3/4 of an inch from the other end of the

core. A 9/16 inch hole then needs to be drilled through the side at the

closed end of the core to meet up with the 3/8 inch hole through the

center of the core. Both holes need to be tapped for water fittings. Prior

to drilling the holes, a taper needs to be added to the core on the end that

will mate up with the magnet. The end of the core that will correspond

with the magnet needs to be true, flat, and polished. The magnet contact

end of the core must be taper leaving the flat end approximately 1/2 the

diameter of the magnet. There is some sort of vortex aetheric force

allowed at the tip of the core by configuring it in this manner. This is a

very important aspect!!

Also, the outside tapped end of the core needs to be threaded for magnet

gap adjustment. If you are going to have the stator sticking through your

housing, you might want to consider adding the thickness of your box to

the overall length of your stator core. Otherwise, you may have a stator

core that is to short. You might also want to place your core in the box

and figure the optimum point for your side hole on your core before

drilling it. You can mark the optimum point for drilling and drill it later.

Otherwise you may have located the hole such that it may not line up

properly with where you wanted it to connect with your copper water


tubing.

Coil

The coils need to be wound with a 3/4 inch open center to accommodate

the stator core later. The approximate size of the coil is 2 inches X 2.25

inches. One of the coils needs to be wound clockwise while the other

needs to be wound counter clockwise since one is on the South pole of the

magnet and the other is on the North pole. Bear in mind that we don't

know if this is a repulsion situation or an attraction situation. This was

another secret kept from us. So, experimentation must be done with both

and utilize the method that produces the best results. It is thought by

someone that repulsion was his method of choice and that may well be

the case. The type of wire needed is .5 and that is probably a metric

designation since it is a designation from New Zealand. Also, when

winding your coils remember that it's not the number of winds but the

resistance that counts. So, check for resistance on your coil while winding

it.

Bobbins

The bobbins are very easy to make from pvc pipe and use 1/4" ABS

plastic sheet for your sideboards. I use the thinnest pvc pipe available

and then cut the ABS side boards out of my flat sheet with a adjustable

hole saw. I cut them about 1/4" wider than I want them to be and turn

them down to the right specifications later on a lathe. I then drill the

holes in the side board disks to the right size with a compound bit. The

pvc pipe fits snugly into the hole in the disk. I also use super glue to

permanently affix the sideboards to the pvc pipe.


Anyway I forgot to mention that the inside diameter of the pvc pipe is 3/4

inch, so it fits right over the outside of the stator core perfectly nice.

Balanced

The rotor needs to be perfectly balanced and also the drive shaft needs to

be perfectly true as well because the stator cores are going to be almost

right on the rotor. Therefore if the shaft is bent and/or the rotor is not

balanced perfectly the stator and rotor will hit each other. Also, this

motor has the potential of turning at some serious speeds in excess of

5,000 rpm, so if it's out of balance it would be very problematic to say the

least. So, pick your drive shaft wisely and make sure it's true; Drill your

rotor perfectly through dead center and make sure it's balanced

perfectly. You need to make sure that you drill your eight holes in exactly

the proper place also or the rotor will be off balance. There is absolutely

no room for any wobble on this rotor!! You need to make sure the depth

of your magnets and alloy inserts are proper too so that nothing is

sticking out to snag a stator. Also, you need to be very careful when

machining your alloy inserts to make sure each of them is true and the

same weight or you'll have an off­balance condition just from that. Some

guy reported his machine was turning at 10,000 rpm and that leaves no

margin for error.

Interconnected Stators

The stators are interconnected to one another via copper tubing. There is

a water reservoir and water is continuously circulated through each of

the two stators via a water pump and the attached copper tubing. Each

of the two stators have a water inlet hole at the back and a water outlet


hole 3/4 of an inch from the magnet contact point on the front side of the

stator.

Magnet Size

Very good results were achieved with 3/4" X 1" magnets. Some of the

later motors used 7/8" X 1".

When using 3/4" magnets, the stator should be 1/2 the diameter of the

magnet.

When using magnets exceeding 3/4" in diameter the stator should be

tapered to 3/4 of the diameter of the magnet.

Purpose of Water Use?

Water Serves 2 Purposes:

#1) Water takes the massive aetheric heat buildup away from the the

cores and

coils.

#2) Water takes on a massive electrical charge itself and acts as the

magnetic conductor between the north and south poles of the magnets.

My Gut

Quote:


Originally Posted by Slovenia

Very good results were achieved with 3/4" X 1" magnets. Some of the

later motors used 7/8" X 1".

When using 3/4" magnets, the stator should be 1/2 the diameter of the

magnet.

When using magnets exceeding 3/4" in diameter the stator should be

tapered to 3/4 of the diameter of the magnet.

My gut tells me to go with 1/2 the magnet face diameter for the

tapered tip of the stator core. I feel this is very important.

Magnet Suggestion

For my money, I would suggest that the 3/4" X 1" neodyne magnets

should be more than adequate. Great results were achieved with this

particular size of magnet. The inventor was very happy with this

particular size of magnet.

Strange Phenomena

Some of the later motors exhibited some other strange characteristics.

They displayed the characteristic of becoming weightless. Yes, on several

occasions the motors became weightless and went airborne. On at least

one occasion it was reported that the motor went all the way to the

ceiling at which point it disconnected from its power source and fell to

the floor. I had never heard this reported before with reference to these

types of motors.


Easy Drive Shaft Configuration

I used a 1/2 inch threaded 304L stainless steel rod for my drive shaft. I

studied the option of mounting a hub onto the side of my rotor, but was

unable to find the right type available for my needs and didn't want to

have to machine one from scratch. So, I was looking for expedient

options and found one which is not ideal but will work well for a

prototype. The 1/2 inch threaded rod is what I finally arrived at for a

prototype motor. It is a much easier and cheaper method. You still need

two large stainless washers so that you can have a washer on each side of

the rotor. You then need four stainless steel nuts, so that you can force

the washers tightly in place to the side of the rotor. The second nut on

each side will enable you to lock the nuts in place. I would also use

Locktite to ensure your nuts don't loosen when the rotor is spinning at a

high rpm. I utilized a brass spacer sleeve on each end of the machine

where the threaded rod came in contact with the roller bearings. The

sleeve travels a lot more smoothly against the rollers than did the

threaded rod. For roller bearings I'd choose fairly large round ball

bearings and not needle bearings. The needle variety are terrible for this

application. Anyway, the bronze sleeve needs to be locked in place with a

nut on the inside of the motor housing on both ends. You want to use a

locking sleeve stop on the outside of the motor housing on both ends of

the threaded rod. Then tighten your inner two nuts against the bronze

sleeve forcing it against the outer locking sleeve. This works very well.

As far as the usb rotary encoder, I have no idea how to apply it to my

needs yet. I'm waiting for further feedback from my engineering friend.


I'll share more when I have it.

Secret Alloy

Material Fishing Sinkers Are Made Of. You want the pure stuff, (i.e.: no

alloys added to it)!!

You'll need four plugs made from this material and they need to be the

exact size of your magnets and perfectly balanced so as not to throw off

the balance of your rotor. They need to be the exact length of one another

and the exact width of one another.

Energy Storage

The inventor preferred high voltage industrial type capacitors. They

worked exceptionally well for him. These of course are very expensive

and potentially very dangerous.

Other folks using his setups are using battery banks to capture the

energy and store it. These work very well also and are somewhat

expensive too if you buy good ones. It's my understanding that only one

bank of batteries is necessary for this type motor.

There are many differing rules of thumb out there.

Anyway, when you are using a battery bank there is a proper protocol to

use to ensure the most efficient use of the storage system and it was never


made clear to me. This is a very important aspect to get right also. So,

maybe some of the experts will shed some more light in this area.

Also, with this particular system we are generating very hot water and if

we don't cool it before recirculating it through the system, we can easily

make steam which can also be utilized for running a steam generator or

something else. We can always use the hot water for taking a shower.

This is a very good unique system.

Self Runner

This machine was reported to be a self runner. It took the mains to get it

started of course, but once it was going it generated a lot more energy

than was needed to run it.

Armor Board

Armor board is used by some to build this particular motor. Armor

board is a very expensive particle board type board. It has some very

interesting characteristics, but the only characteristic we are interested

in is the fact that it is waterproof. Armor board is relatively hard to

machine but when machined properly makes a very good rotor. It also is

a great material to use for the frame of the motor. Marine plywood

would of course also be okay for use on the frame but not for the rotor.

Plywood is not a good option for the rotor since in many cases there are

voids within the plywood that make it almost impossible to balance

properly. So, armor board is a very good choice for the rotor. Particle

board will work nicely until you spring a leak with this water motor


system and that is very likely indeed. So, remember to use only

waterproof materials when fabricating your motor housing and rotor.

Also remember not to use any metals within the framework and/or rotor

other than brass or stainless steel. Don't use any aluminum since it does

exhibit some very strange magnetic phenomenon that are undesirable.

The undesirable phenomenon were not shared with me.

Metric Wire Sizes Given

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slovenia

I do know that Adams recommended .5 wire size for the 10­50 KW motors

and .35 for anything less than that.

The wire sizes given were in mm, so .5mm for 10 KW ­ 50 KW

motors and .35mm for anything less than 10 KW. One chap uses .

4mm and says he's not getting good results.

I imagine that the wire size is not the problem in this case. There is

little margin for error in the tuning of this device!! If tuned

improperly you just won't see good results.

Piggybacked Rotor Systems


It's my understanding that these separate rotor systems can be

piggybacked into multiple rotor systems for much more power output,

something like the Harold Aspden systems but not the same really. No

particular detail was given in this area. Anyway, if you look at Harold

Aspden's multi­rotor systems it might give you some ideas about how

these rotors could be assembled into a multiple high output

arrangement.

Recap on Core Material

Use pure iron if possible for your core material.

The lead plugs referred to are something entirely different. The lead

inserts go between the magnets in the rotor. There are (8) holes in the

rotor and every other hole is for a magnet. the remaining holes in the

rotor are for the lead plugs. The lead plugs are the exact same size as the

magnets and must be perfectly balanced or they will throw the balance of

the rotor off. The balance of the rotor is a critical factor because the air

gap between the magnets and the cores is only .040. There is no

allowance for rotor wobble here.

Recap on Coil Location

The north and south poles of all the magnets are utilized in this motor.

There is a core coil assembly on the north pole side of the rotor and (1)

core coil assembly on the south pole of the magnet. Both of the


electromagnet assemblies are separated by 180 degrees. This is also

critical.

The north poles of the magnets are all on the same side of the rotor. All

the south poles of the magnets are on the other side of the rotor.

There were some misunderstandings, so that is why I'm recapping!!

24 AWG Wire

Quote:

Originally Posted by eternalightwithin

10kW­50kW

24AWG

Thanks!!

Yes, 24 awg wire is the right wire to use for the 10­50 KW machines

& 27 awg for machines less than that.

.5mm 10KW and higher machines

.35mm Less than 10KW machines

Conversion Site:

AWG to Metric Conversion Chart


Recap on Motor Housing & Rotor

Use only non­conductive material for housing and/or rotor.

Remember the water proof aspect!!

Drive shaft and hub need to be either brass or non magnetic stainless.

Don't use any aluminum either on the rotor or in the motor housing!!

Someone needed clarification.

Magnets

Remember we are using both sides of the magnets with this motor. This

particular aspect is what allows this motor to be extraordinary. The

water conduit between the north and south poles of the magnets is also of

great importance.

Remember that the stators have to be separated from one another by 180

degrees and also that they are on opposite sides of the rotor!! Also, you

only have (2) stators with this machine and those (2) stators also act as

the generator coils too.


Coil Winding Direction

This is also very important!! One of the coils is left wound while the

other is right wound. I was told which goes with north and which goes

with south pole magnets, but I am unable to find those particular notes.

Anyway, it is thought that Adams used repulsion in these particular

motors, so we want to repel the magnets with our stators and not attract

them. Anyway, I'll continue to look for those notes because it is

paramount that we wind the coils the proper direction or the exercise is

futile.

The north pole magnet side coil is wound one direction while the south

pole magnet side coil is wound the opposite direction.

I'll try to find the proper particulars and get back to you.

Coil Winding Direction (Clockwise & Counterclockwise)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slovenia

This is also very important!! One of the coils is left wound while the other

is right wound. I was told which goes with north and which goes with

south pole magnets, but I am unable to find those particular notes.

Anyway, it is thought that Adams used repulsion in these particular

motors, so we want to repel the magnets with our stators and not attract

them. Anyway, I'll continue to look for those notes because it is

paramount that we wind the coils the proper direction or the exercise is

futile.


The north pole magnet side coil is wound one direction while the south

pole magnet side coil is wound the opposite direction.

I'll try to find the proper particulars and get back to you.

I'm unable to find the notes referring to which coils are wound

which way, but I woke up the other night after much thought and

I'm pretty sure I was told to wind the coil on the stator facing the

north pole magnet clockwise and to wind the coil on the stator facing

the south pole magnet counter clockwise. This may or may not be

right, but I feel it is right.

Water Lines

Water lines inside motor housing that conduct water from the outlets of

both stators need to be located on the outside front of each stator for easy

maintenance. If you spring a water leak you don't want to yank the back

of your housing off. You want to be able to get in there fast and correct

your problem with minimum effort and minimum frustration.

Anyway, as stated earlier in the thread, the motor housing is a box with

the front end of the box open. This is a square box, so the bottom, top,

back, and sides of the box are the same exact dimensions. For now I'll let

you choose your own dimensions. You should have a pretty good idea

from the diagrams how it must be done.

The water lines come out the side of the stators approximately 3/4" from

the end of the stator core facing the magnet. You can make the back of


the stator core a long as you need. Allow for gap adjustment. Remember

that the coil is 2.25" X 2".

Water Pump Scenario:

You need to have a water reservoir and a pump to circulate water from

the reservoir to the cores and then back to the reservoir for recirculation.

You can pull off any hot water you want to use from the reservoir for

other needs if you like. If you are not going to utilize the hot water for

anything, you need to find a way to cool it down before recirculating it

back through the stators.

Drive Shaft Diameter

It's a good idea to make the drive shaft 3/4" diameter but if you choose to

make it less you probably shouldn't make it less than 1/2" diameter. The

length of the shaft is up to you. Depending on your timing mechanism,

you may want it longer or shorter than I might prescribe. So, I'll leave

that up to you.

Shaft Collars:

Use shaft collars on the outside of both bearings on the outside of the

motor housing, to keep the shaft from having any side movement. This

will prevent your stator cores and magnets from getting together at 3,000

rpm.

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