K0145460 ¯ ,_ ~ -- .~,~-~~~ ~

IDENTIFICA TION 

D UREE 

QUALITE 

TRANSMISSION 

NOM 

DA TE DE TRANSMIS~ 70N 

NOM D U FICHIER 

DICTAPHONE 

¯ 0200 

¯ . 

K0145460 

¯ 60 Min ’~ ~ .--. 67.. ..... 

,_ ~ -- .~,~-~~~ .-- 

~ ~--- 

: Assez bonne °~ ~.0 ~_~ . ~ "~< ~ ~ ~ %3’] L3.,~G/Af- 

: RTLM 5 

: KASHINZWENIMANA Gaspara 

¯ Le 15/06/99 

¯ JUIN 0200 

¯ SUPER SLIM/Model B0-760/17 

, l~"~~;l~-~~ @:r#q ’,~. 3 ,:~o~ OE 

FACE A 

-ORATEUR: HABIM~ kNA Kantano 

...Abonye amamodokl abiri yikoreye amacumu mashyashya, akwikiye, ndakeka rero yuko 

muyaf..muteye InkotaJ~yi, mukazitera ayo macumu nabwo ntabwo byaa..byazigwa neza. Kuko 

birababaje kubonaagakotanyi, agakotanyi gusa karangwa n’izuru na bya bottes mu nda ntaho, 

karabaye umucana, k;’~za kagafatabagabo, abantu b’abagabo, magma angahe magan abiri 

kagashorera ngo n’uk¢ gafite igice cy’imbunda nta n’umu..gabo n’umwe uvuyemo ngo amutere 

icumu nibashaka bah’¢¢ane kuko na none nawe ntabwo aba agiye kumugirira neza, njyewe 

ndibazaa..ese abanyar~yanda koko turacyari intwari cyagwa se turi ibigwari nicyo gituma usanga 

n’Inkotanyi zitwita ba bwoba. Ndakeka yuko rwose mu by’ukuri, ubu n’igihe cyo kwerekana 

ubugabo, n’igihe cyo ~werekana ubutwari, naho ubundii..nibikomeza gutya ndakeka yuko abantu 

bazakeka yuko abany~xwanda rwose nta butwari tugira kubonakantu k’akabwa kangana urwara, 

kaza kagashorera abagabo mirongo itanu, mirongo inani, ntihagire usohokana umuhoro ngo ahite 

amutema, nta..gire usolokana 

icumu ngo amutere, ufite umwambi akawusiga mu nzu, ufite umuheto 

akabisiga mu nzu, ufite ubuhiri akabisiga mu nzu, bakamushorera imbokoboko, ndakeka yuko 

ubwongubwo rwose n:abwo 

ari ubugabo. 

Cassette n° 0200 transcrite par K.G

2 K0145461 

Niba Inkotanyi uzumvise, sohokana icumu ryawe, uzitere icumu, kuko nazo ntabwo ziba ziri 

bukworohere, nazo ziba zishaka kukwica. None se umuntu agiye kukwica ntumwiyahureho ubwo 

se urumva wapfa kigabo cyangwa wapfa kibwa? Mwiyahureho nu..shaka unamurye n’amenyo 

umukomeretse icyo gisebe azakirwara iminsi, ariko yigushorera buka, yigushorera butama. 

Ibyo bintu rwose birababaje birababaje baturage, ntabwo byemewe na gato. 

Hanyuma rero ubwo mu kanya ndaza kubasobanurira neza ibyo nabonye ku Gisenyi, uko ibintu 

byifashe, mbasobanurire ibyo nabonyejo i Gitarama aho nanyuze mu muhanda wa Kigali..nako 

Gisenyi-Ngororero, ee., Gisenyi-Ngororero, e., Gatumba, hanyuma noneho nkazaa nkagera za 

Nyabikenke, nkageraa i Kayenzi, hanyuma ngafata umuhanda munini ngaruka hano i Kigali. 

Ubu rero, ee., ndaza kubabwira n’ibintu byo ku rugamba nyine kuko nababwiye yuko Inkotanyi 

nkeya ubu ziri mu nzu kwa KARAMIRA, hariya i Nyamirambo ariko Ingabo z’u Rwanda zikaba 

zanyijeje yuko, saa..tatu gusa, saa tatu gusa, baba bamaze kuzica zose, izagerageje., kwegera 

umuhanda. Ubu rero n’i Gikondo naho nyine Inyenzi-nkotanyi naho zakamejeje ariko mu kanya 

naho turarebaa uko zimerewe uko nii..bishoka, nyarukirayo kureba. 

Hanyuma, turaza no kureba nyine ibi bintu bivugwa mu mahanga by’izo ngabo njyewe nsanga 

ibyizari uko Abafaransa baduha ibikoresho, ubundi tukirwanira na bariya bana b’abatutsi, 

tukirwanira na bariya bana b’abatutsi rwose, tukabumvisha yuko nta na rimwe baturasa, 

baduhungisha, bagira gute, badutera ubwoba, nta na rimwe bazadutegeka ku ngufu. 

lbyo rero naho kwizera yuko ikibazo cy’umututsi n’umuhutu kizakemurwa ari uko mwene ruzungu 

cyangwa se undi mwirabura wo mu gihugu ntazi nacyo cyamunzwe n’ibibazo by’amoko, hum, 

ari..ari uko ngo aje guhagarara hagati. Ibyo rero ntacyo bimaze kuko sinumva ukunm azahagarara 

hagati, 

abanyagitarama agahagarara hagati Gitarama, abanyabutare ntibatahe iwabo, abanyacyangugu 

bagahera hagati, hanyumagahagarara mu Gatsata, abanyagatsata bakajya bakareba iwabo gusa, 

hanyum agahagarara ku mupaka, ku Rusumo, abanyakibungo bakajya bareba intoki zabo, 


K0145462 

zi..n’ibitoki binekera ku gahinga, n’uwo muzungu ndumva ntacyo amaze umuntu yamurwanya. 

N..abazungu rero nibaturebere ibikoresho, kandi nkuko Ministre.. wa défensejo yambwiye turi 

ku Gisenyi, yambwiye yuko ibyo bikoresho, biza ariko rero abazungugasanga wamubwira uti 

nyabuna bipakire mu ndege, ugasanga nyine arica amari..amayira, ngo ese ONU yambona, ngo 

byagenda gute n’ibiki ugasanga arakurushya, ukarinda kunyura hirya no hino, ariko rero, nibaduhe 

ibyo bikoresho bize, hanyuma ubundi twibonanyire ni...twibonanire n’Inyenzi kuko niba ail 

amasasu, bayaduhe turwane n’Inyenzi, ibyaribyo byose agatsiko k’abantu bake ntabwo gashobora 

ku..rusha mbanda nyamwinshi imbaraga, kandi uwigize agatebo ayora ivu. Mureke tubonane n’izo 

ngegera. 

Ubwo rero mu kanya turnaze kumva bene SEBAHINZI ukunm bagomba kujya hamwe, turakomeza 

aya makuru. 

(Indirimbo, mu majwi iyobowe na Simoni BIK1NDI) 12’ 25" 

-ORATEUR: Gaspard GAHIGI 

...N’amarorerwa aherutse kubera mu Bunmdi, (inaudible)..NDADAYE, wari umaze gutorwa, iyo 

ntambara, mu Rwanda, n’ayo marorerwa mu Burundi, byabyukije ikibazo cy’abahutu n’ abatutsi 

cyasaga n’igihoshoye, (inaudible). Intambara yashojwe n’Inkotanyi yibukije bamwe intambara 

y’Inyenzi. Bati, impunzi, bati n’impunzi z’abatutsi zishaka gufata ubutegetsi zambuwe n’abahutu 

muri mirongo itanu n’icyenda. Amarorerwa nayo yabereye mu Burundi ntawe ugihakana ko 

ashingiye ku moko. Ayo marorerwa yatumye abanyarwanda bongera kwibaza kurushaho ikibazo 

cy’abahutu n’abatutsi. Batangira kubona ko amatora yonyine adahagije kugirango akemure burundu 

icyo kibazo. Ibyo byose bikibutsa umugani wa kinyarwanda ugiru..ugira uti "Umuntu asiga 


K0145463 

ikimwirukana, ntasiga ikimwirukamo". Ikibazo rero kire..kirasa n’aho cya..(inaudible) muri msange 

kandi kiriho, kiriho kiravugwa. 

Nkaba rem nammiyee aba bantu muri studio, natumiye Madamu MBONAMPEKA Marie-Claire, 

ntumira RWABUKWlSI Ravi, ntumira Karori NKURUNZIZA, ntumira BARAYAGWlZA Yohani 

Bosco, kugirango ducoce icyo kibazo, tugihere i muzi. 

Hari abanm rero bagira bati, ikibazo cy’abahutu n’abatutsi, ni iki.. ntakiriho; ni ikibazo cyazanywe 

n’abazungu. Gihimbwa cyangwa gikwizwa n’abategetsi bishakira umugati, bagamije kwikubira 

ubutegetsi n’umutungo w’igihugu. Bati ikibazo kiriho, ni ikibazo cy’abakire n’abakene. 

Abandi bati ikibazo cy’abahutu n’abatutsi kiriho bati ahubwo giteye inkeke. Batii ubututsi 

n’ubuhutu biri muri kamere y’abantu. Hari n’ikindi gice gitekereza nka NSENGIYAREMYE 

Disimasi, ugira uti mu Rwanda nta bwoko buriho..nta buhutu, nta muhutu, nta mututsi, nta mutwa, 

hari ubwoko bumwe rukumbi, ubwoko bw’abanyarwanda. 

Nkagirango rero, tujye impaka kuri icyo kibazo, noneho icyo kibazo niba kiriho, niba kitariho, 

dutange ibimenyetso bibigaragaza. Ku bwawe Karori NKURUNZIZA, ikibazo cy’abahutu n’abatutsi 

kiriho? Niba kiriho, kigaragazwa n’iki? 

-ORATEUR: Karori NKURUNZIZA 

Bwanaa, GAHIGI Gaspard...ikibazo umbajije ni ikibazo gikomeye koko kandii gihangayikishije 

abanyarwanda. Ikibazo cy’abahutu n’abatutsi kibaho. Kiriho koko. Amoko, ariho koko. Njye rero 

nkakubwira mbihamya rwose ko amoko ariho. Imbaga y’abanyarwanda kuva kera na kare igizwe 

n’ayo moko uko ari atatu: abatutsi, abahutu n’abatwa. Noneho muri ayo moko uko ari atatu, hakaba 

andi nayo bita amoko ariko ashingiye ku miryango 

kera; hakaba Abazigaba, hakaba Abungura, 

hari Abacyaba, hakaba Abasinga, hari Abanyiginya, hakaba Abega. 

Igitangaje ( nabyo wenda turaza kubigarukaho); n’uko buri tsinda..mu batutsi, cyangwa mw’ayo moko. 

Mu bahum, ugasangamo ayo moko. Muu..batwa, ugasangamo ayo moko. Naho ubundi 

amok..imbaga y’abanyarwanda igizwe n’amoko akuriye atatu : abahutu, abatutsi, ntagombye kujya 

Cassette n° 0200 transcrire par K.G

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K0145464 

kure cyane abariho ku ngoma ya RUDAHIGWA bazi ko intego ku ngoma ya RUDAHIGWA yari 

"Imbaga y’inyabutatu ijya mbere". Ibyo rero murumva ko atad abazungu babihimbye. Ntabwo ad 

abazungu bahimbye ibintu nk’ibyo. 

Imbaga y’inyabutatu ijya mbere kuko twari mu bihe by’amajyambere n’uko wenda abazungu 

batuzaniye, ibyitwaga "progrès" icyo gihe. Tutad twadevelopa. Kera rero mu Rwanda rwa mbere 

y’abazungu, ayo moko uko ad atatu yariho. Ndetse, abanditse,(abahanga), 

ku mateka y’icyo 

gihe, aribo nka nyakwigendera Musenyeri Alexis KAGAME, adbo ba Bwana Jacques MACKE, 

aribo ba Bwana VANSINA, ba padiri DELAKJE, ba padiri PAJEF banditse mu ntangiriro ce. bamwe 

batangiranye nab..n’abazungu bakigera ino, by’uko babonye u Rwanda rumeze, bakatubwira ko 

abahutu, abatutsi n’abatwa bariho ndetse bo babyitaga "Race". Mu gifaransa cy’icyo gihe "Race", 

nako mu., uko babivugaga icyo gihe, ayo moko bayitaga "Race". 

N’ukuvuga ko babonagayo moko ashingiye ku k’umuntu aremetse. Bakatubwira bati umututsi 

uzamusa..uzasanga afite metero imwe ha santimetero mirongo inani. Umuhutu, metero imwe na 

santimetero mirongo itandatu n’umunani. Umutwa, hasi yaho. Bapfa..kuvuga bati, ni " race". 

Noneho biza gukurikiraho rero ko no kuri race haziramo n’imico. Uko umuntu yitwara. Nibwo baje 

gusimbuza rya jambo "Race" buhorobuhoro baryita "Ethnie". Ariko ntibivuga ko umuhutu abaho, 

umututsi abaho, n’umutwa akabaho, kandi batagira ikiberekana kibatandukanya n’abandi. Ngira ngo 

ce. waba ufite ibindi waza kumbaza ubwo na..ngira na..na..nakubwiye kugirango, ngusubize 

mfatanyije n’abandicyakora njye ku bwanjye, ayo moko ariho uko ad atatu ibimenyetso 

biyagaragaza biriho. 


Ye, ku bwawe rero Karori, amoko adiho uko ad atatu, abahutu, abatwa n’abatutsi ndetse uti 

tubafitiye aha n’ibimenyetso bibigaragaza. Turaza kubigeraho. 

Muri mwebwe natumiye had utekereza ukundi? Had ubon ayo moko atariho? Niba ntawe rero, ee, 

niba ntawe, ubwoo..ngirango sinatumiye neza koko nzi ko had.. abemera ko ayo moko atariho. 

BARAYAGWIZA ku bwawe abahakana ko ayo moko atariho bashingira kuki? 


K0145465 

-ORATEUR: BARAYAGWIZA Yohani Bosco 

Harii..abavuga ko amoko atariho bavuga batii..ii..ni abazungu babihimbye, ee. abazungu bakavuga 

koo ari n’ababirigi kuko abadage..(inaudible). Bakavuga ko, abo bazungu, abo babirigi, bahimbye 

ayo moko, kugirangoo bagabanye, ya mbaga y’abanyarwanda ngo bashobore kuyitegeka. 

Arikoo bagera i ruhande, biherereye, bakaza kuvuga ko abahutu badashobora gutegeka ko abatutsi 

aribo bavukanye imbuto aribo bagomba gutegeka iki gihugu. 

Hari bamwe rero bagifite ibyo bitekerezo. Hari abandi bavuga ko ayo moko atabaho, bavuga 

ngoo..abahutu n’abatutsi, barashyingiranye ubuu..bakaba bay..ba bavanze ku buryo udashobora 

kubavangura. Abo nabo bakavuga ko yendaamoko yigeze kubaho ariko atakiriho. Ariko abo bose 

usanga bagamije ikintu kimwe: cyo kugirango ubwoko bwabo aribwo butegeka nyine. 

Muri abo bantu rero bafite ibyo bitekerezo ad abo bavugaga yuko abatutsi ba..babivuga i ruhande 

nyinee. ko abatutsi aribo bavukanye imbuto ari.. n’abo bavuga yuko amoko atakibaho kubera ko 

abahutu n’abatutsi bateranye ndetse n’abatwa bosee, bishakira ubutegetsi ad abatutsi b’icyo gih..ba 

kera bari iruhande rw’umwami, ari..abatutsi b’ubu e., bibumbiye cyane cyane muri FPR. N’ abandi 

bashyigikiye FPR. Nta kindi bagamije usibye gushaka kudutegeka. 

Njyewe rero ku girl cyanjye, mvuga ko amoko ariho koko ndetse nkongeraho yuko hari n’ ikibazo 

hagati y’abahutu n’abatutsi cyane cyane. Kuko ubwoko bwa gatatu dukunze kubwibagirwa niba ad 

ukubera yuko atari benshi cyane, nib a_ri ukubera ko bataa..vuga, ntawabimenya, ariko ubu.., nabo 

basigaye barahimbye imiryango yitwa "Abasangwabutaka", ngo koko nabo ikibazo cyabo 

kizumvikana. Ayo moko rero ariho. Urebye mu mateka y’u Rwanda ndetse na mbere y’abo bazungu 

hara..hakiri abadage, hari umudage wageze ubwa mbere mu Rwanda witwaa Adolphe VON 

GOTZEN. Uyu mugaboo bavuga ko yageze mu Rwanda mu w’igihumbi magana inani na mirongo 

icyenda na kane. Mu mateka ye, ee., abashaka kuyasomaa., muzarebe igitabo cy’umuu..cy’umudag 


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witwa BINSEIT, wahoze ari Ambassadeur hano mu Rwanda, yanditse igitabo cyiza ee. kerekeye 

amateka y’uwo mugabo, muzasangamo ahanditse ko yageze mu Rwanda muri icyo gihe agasanga 

hari amoko atatu. Abahutu, abatutsi n’abatwa. 

Agerekaho ndetse ko yasanze abatutsi barakandamije ayoo..moko yandi uko ari abiri. Ii..ki gihe ni 

mu kinyejanaa, cya cumi n’icyenda. Abo bazungu bamwe bavuga ko aribo bahimbye amoko bari 

bataraza. Kuko aba bazungu aribo babirigi bahageze mu w’igihumbi maganacyenda 

cumi na 

gatandatu nibwo batangiye gutegeka, bamaze gutsinda abadage. 

Ikindi cyerekana yuko amoko abaho nyinee., n’igihee..abo batutsi 

"developaga"..ba..ii..sh 

imber ee..ii..ii..cyo cyuka iyo "mythe" yo kuvuga ngoo abatutsi nibo bavukanye imbuto 

ibyoo..yenda na..njy..abari hanoo nta wari wakavutse ariko twabyize mu..mateka y’igihugu, ee., 

ariko byanarakomeje ku buryo bamwe. basanze bikihari, baza kubitubwira. 

Ingero rero zerekana yuko amokoo yariho ni nyinshi. Uribuka yuko mu myaka ya mirongo itanu, 

abahutu, bageze aho binubira gukandagizwa igitugu. Barahaguruka barandika kugeza n’aho muri 

mirongo itanu na karindwi banditsee., ya nyandiko ikomeye cyane abahutu bakigenderaho na n’ubu 

yitwa "Manifeste y’abahutu". Icyo nicyo kimenyetso kigaragara cyasohotse... 

[ FACE A irarangiye ] 

FACE B 

mu nyandiko, kivuga ko amoko ariho ko n’ibibazo bafitanye biriho. 


Ee, ndumva rero utera mu rya Karori, ee, iyo uvuze uti, amoko ariho ni atatu: abahutu, abatwa 

n’abatutsi; werekanye n’ibimenyetso ubwo rero ndagirango noneho mpe Ravi ijambo. 


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Nawe niko ubibonamoko ariho: hari abahutu, hari abatwa, hari abatutsi? 

-ORATEUR: RWABUKWISI Ravi 

Ee, urakoze GAHIGI ee. ku bwanjye, ee, nsanga yuko guhakana yuko mu Rwanda hari amoko atatu, 

ee., atari byo. Mu Rwanda hari amoko atatu y’abanyarwanda, abanyarwanda banyuranyijwe n’ayo 

moko: abahutu, abatwabatutsi. Kuko kubihakana 

none waba usa n’ushaka guhakana ahari yuko, 

ee, nta n’abega bariho, nta banyiginya, nta bagesera, e, nta bacyaba n’ubundi bwoko buri mu Rwanda 

nkuko tubizi. Gusa rero njyewe nibaza yuko..ee..abavuga 

ubwo bwoko butariho, bishyingikirij e 

rwa rugero BARAYAGWIZA yigeze gutanga rw’uko abanyarwanda bavanze kuva muu..aho e 

abantu batangiye gutinyukanira, kuva aho e ubusumbanee..bw’ubukungu ee..ngirango muribuka 

yuko bavugaga cyera bati: umututsi, e abatutsi bari bakize par rapport y’abahum mu gihe cya kera. 

Kugeza n’ubwo uwashakaga uwash..uwaramukaga akize azi ngo.. ageze ku ntera yo hejuru, agize 

ubutunzi buhagije, nawe yitwaga umututsi. Ari nabyoo ngo bise ngo kwihutura. 

Nkibaza rero yuko e uvuga yuko abanyarwanda kuba baravanze guhera icyo gihe batangiye, 

abahutu batangiye kuzamukira, batangiye kugira intera no kugira ubukungu mu gihugu bakaba 

baravanze baki..bagashyingiranwaa..n’abatutsi, 

icyo kintu cyabayeho cyane ku buryo iyo tugeze 

muri iyi myaka tugezemo usanga finalement wibaza umuhutuwo ariwe, wibaza umututsi uwo 

ariwe. 

Ujya kureba, ugasanga runakati nkawe GAHIGI, ukavuga uti data ni umututsi e plûtot n’umuhutu, 

ee.., na sogokuru na sogokuruza. Ariko wajya kurebabo bashakanye nabo hatï ya bose ugasanga 

ni abatutsikazi. Kugirango umuntu muri iki gihe azajye kuvugati njyewe ndi umuu..hutu pur sang, 

e njyewe ngirango birakomeye cyane; kirekahari hari abize analyse. Nkabari nayo, ari naho njye 

mpera mvuga yuko, e nshyigikira icyo gitekerezo cye navugaga ati amoko ntariho atari uguhakana 

batsemba yuko amoko y’u Rwandatari atatu, ariko ari kubera yuko cya kindi kitwaga ya classe 

yatandukanyaga umuhutu n’umututsi, ee. muri iki gihe yavuyeho. 


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Iyo mélange rero yabayeho kugeza ubungubu ikaba ituma abanyarwanda twese dusigaye turi 

bamwe dusigayee., yego abatwa bakunze gusa n’abasigara inyumaa bitumaa..badakunda 

gushyingiranywa n’ubwo bwoko bundi busigaye ariko nkibaza yuko ayo moko abiri, abahutu 

n’abatutsi, iyo mbona njyewe basubiranamo akenshi nsanga ikibazo cyo gusubiranamo ee. mu 

by’ukuri kitabavamo, bombi ubwabo; kuko baraziranye, ee. GAHIGI iyo aturanye n’undi muu..ee.. 

na mugenzi we yitwa ngo ni umututsi, ibyaribyo byose baba baIite ahantu bahuriye, habaa..m..ee., 

muri uko gushyingirana nkuko nabivuze, cyangwa se mu yindi mibanire y’abanyarwanda. 

Muri icyo gihe rero njyewe nkabona yuko ikibazo abanyarwanda dufite tugiterwa n’abategetsi, 

n’ubutegetsi uko bwagiye bukurikirana, kuvaa ku bwami kugeza ee. muri iki gihe. Ahari wenda ndi 

bubisubiremo ee. ndib..ndi bubigarukeho ariko njye kugeza ubu ndemeza yuko ayo moko 

yaa..uko ari atatu ariho muri uko kubaho ariko uvuga yuko atariho a. yitwaje icyo kintu cyo 

kuvuga yuko abanyarwanda bavanze ku buryo ntawe ukimenya ngo runaka n’umuhutu pur sang, ee., 

nkumva yuko nawe afite raison, kuko njyewe naritegereje nsanga yuko uw.uwareba neza; 

agakoreshaa ubuhangaa..bu..bwashobora kuboneka, kugirango adeterminer umuhutu nyawe; yasanga 

abahutu nyabo muri iki gihugu bishobotse wasanga bangana bafite umubare ungana n’uw’abatutsi. 

Kubera iki? Abandi basigaye hagati aho bose usanga baravanze usanga utamenya mu by’ukuri niba 

ufite amaraso ya gihutu kuva kuri so.k..kuruza..kud so.kuruza kugezaho uri ahangaha. Ibwoo., 

wenda ndi bubigarukeho, ariko ee. ibyo n’uko bimeze. 


Nagirangoo., Marie-Claire atubwire icyo abitekerezaho cyane cyane ahere ku gitekerezo cya Ravi, 

uvuga ko abantu, bavanze guheraa u Rwanda rwabaho kugeza ubu, ko rero abahakana ko ubwokoo., 

e. butariho bahereye aho baba...(inaudible) Marie-Claire wa..(inaudible) 


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-ORATEUR: RWABUKWISI Ravi (abace mw’ijambo) 

Hari ikind...ijambo mfataho umbabadre ntabwo navuze kuva u Rwanda rwabaho, nakubwiye kuva 

aho abahutu e. batangiriye nabo kuzamuka mu bukungu bagafataa ee. abatutsi mu birebana 

n’ubukungu. E niba wemera yuko...(acibwe mw’ijambo) 


E, ndabyemera ibyongibyo ndabyemera noneho Marie-Claire navuge ee., icyo abitekerezaho 

ahereye nyine igihe abahutu bazamutse bakajya gushyingirana n’abatutsi.. 

-ORATEUR: Madamu MBONAMPEKA Marie-Claire (abanze akorore) 

Amoko koko uko ari atatu abaho. Ikintu nongera ku byo bavuze, n’uko mbona njyewe umuhutu 

cyangwa umututsi ad kamere y’umuntu. Naho ibyo kuvuga ngo abantu barashyingiranywe, hari 

n’abat..n’abandi batashyingiranywe! Hari nk’umuhutu utarigeze agira igitekerezo cyo kuba yashaka 

umututsikazi! Ndetse akaba yaranabyanze. Ntabwo ad igitangaza; akumva ko mu muco we, mu 

buryo bwe bwo kubaho, wenda adashobora kuba yabana n’umututsikazi ngo amuzane, 

abari..mwana, abe ariwe umubyarira abana, agiree.., umuryango uvanze, kubera ko yumvaga, 

batashobokana mu mico, we no mu burenganzira bwe. Naho rero, abavanze nabo bafite inyungu 

zabo bavanze bombi bafite n’impamvu zabo bashobora noneho gutangira kuvuga, babona ko nta 

kibazo. Icyo njyewe mbona, n’uko impamvu yatuzinduye kuza kureba icyo kibazo..icyo kibazo, 

cy’amoko, ad ukubera ko ubungubu abantu barwanira ubutegetsi. 

Niyo mpamvu rero njyewe ndeba kuri urwo ruhande. Ubungubu turashaka demoeratie. Niba 

bavuze bati iki gihugu kirashaka abagitegeka kandi bavuye muri democratie. 


11 

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Umuntu akajya hariyakavugail njyewe ndi umuhutu afite n’ubundi bushobozi bwose bwo kuba 

yategeka igihugu, afite amashuri, afite ibitekerezo byiza, afitee..ibindi bintu byose, ariko wenda 

akagerekaho n’ubwo buhutu. Noneho akabyemera akazabona n’abahutu, bamukurikira. Si byo? 

Bakamuhamajwi bakamutora, bakavuga bati n’uyu, niwe ugomba kuzadutegeka. Kubera iki? 

Hagira umuntuturuka hariyakaza kumubwira ngo nshaka majorité politique sinshaka majorité 

éthnique. Kandi ttm muri démocratie. Aho rero niho mbona njyewe, njya numva ko abantu bavuga 

ngo ubwoko ntibubaho, njya mbyumva no kuri Radio y’Inkotanyi byose ibishimangira ivuga ngo 

hagomba majorité politique. Muri démocratie, ni ugushaka majorité ku buryo bwose. 

Niba uvuga uti u..nda..ndegeranya abahinzi-borozi, ukaba uzi ko bazaguha majorité gusa kugeza 

kuu.. ku. ku gutegeka igihugu, ugomba gushiabahinzi-borozi. Niba uvuga rero uti ndashaka 

abadozi, ukaba uzi ko abadozi ari benshi mu gihugu cyane, ko baa..ils constituent la majorité, c’est 

fini ugomba ku..gutegeka, ni..n’abo bantu la majorité est toujours une responsabilité! Oui Niba 

umuhutu avuze ati ndi umuhutu, ariko mfite n’ubushobozi bwinshii...noneho ubuhutu bwanjye 

nibwiyongereho, nta munt ugomba kumubuza kuvugaa..nayo tuyigira un atout! (inaudible). 


Ee.., ndumva icya mbere cyab..cyari., ikibazo cyanjye cya mbere ntabwo ucyumva ni ukwemeza 

cyangwa tugahakana ko amoko ariho. Ndumva rero uko nabatumiye mwese mwemera ko ayo moko 

ariho e. Ravi akongeraho ko abantu bavanze kuvaa abahutu bazamuka mu bukungu 

bagashyingirana Ariko, Karori NKURUNZIZA yigeze kuvuga ati amoko ariho ndetse hari 

n’ibiyaranga. Ubwo rero twemeje ko amoko ariho reka noneho; Karori atubwiye (kandi yigeze 

kubikomozaho), ati amoko ariho, ati ariho, aa..bahutu, hariho abatwa, hariho abatutsi ati kandi ubwoko 

bugira ikiburanga. Karori tubwire ibimenyetso biranga ubwoko ubu n’ubu. 


12 

-ORATEUR: Karori NKURUNZIZA 

K0145471 

Mbo. Nkukoo., nabivuze mu kanya ntangira ee. ayo moko adho koko, nakubwiye ko mu 

babyanditseho mbere ibyo bintu babyitaga" Race", n’ukuvuga ko barebaga uko umubiri uteye; 

ikimero. Ibyo rero koko byahozeho abazungu barabibonye barabyandika n’ibindi, n’ibindi. 

Mbo koko rero nkuko Ravi yigeze kubivuga had ukuntu ibintu byagiye bihinduka. Ubwo nibyo 

nshaka kugarukaho, aravugati umuhutu wabaga umukire weza ibitoke, ee., nawe bamwitaga 

umututsi. Icyo ndagirango ngitindeho kubera iyi mpamvu: 

Ubwo bukungu bw’umututsi buva kuki? Kuki yabaga umunt...w’umukungu., uu.. umututsi adwe 

ari umukungu? Umuhutu ntabe we. Gusa akagenda aba we wend ari uko babishatse. Byaterwaga 

n’iki? Ngirango rero hari ikibazo gikomeye cyane ikibazo "fondamental". Kuko ubwo buktmgu niho 

ririye...jambo umututsi dtunfl¢a. Kuko mu by’ukuri, ikibazo aho kiri ni ikibazo cy’ubutegetsi muri 

ayo moko. Ikibazo cy’amoko si amoko ahubwo ikibazo ni ikibazo cy’ubutegetsi. 

Ninde ugomba gutegeka? Ku buryo rem mu batutsi baje mu Rwanda ubwoko bw’abanyiginya baje 

bashaka gufata ubutegetsi. Si ubukungu ngo bagire bat..nfibari bazi no guhinga. Abo bantu rero baie 

bashaka ubutegetsi. Bagera ku butegetsi rero, noneho bukabaha bwa bukungu. Bamaze gufata ubwo 

butegetsi rero bavuga ko ad abatutsi bafata ururimi rw’ikinyarwanda kuko urwabo bararuretse. 

Bafata ibintu basanzeh., byose abantu b’abahutu, abami b’abahutu bakoreshaga: kuva ku rurimi 

kugera kw’idini. Iyo uje no ku nzego nyinshi z’ubutegetsi, umwami yari umuhutu. 

Mu kinyarwanda cya kera (inaudible). Umwami yari umuhutu ntabwo ad umututsi kuri kamere. 

Mbo, babumukuraho, ah..yitwa umuhinza w’abahingisha imyaka. Akaba umuhinza. Mbo. Ubwo 

hazamo ikindi kintu gikomeye cyane kitwa "Ubuhake". Ni ikintu "fondamental", mu rwanda rwa 

kera. Aha nyine (nabasaba mugasoma igitabo cya., nyakwigendera Musenyeri k..Alegisi KAGAME 

kitwa mu gifaransa ngoo.. "Les organisations socio-familiales de l’ancien Rwanda". Ni 

igitabo...(inaudible). 

Ee., noneho rero ati njyewe rero ubwo mfite ubutegetsi, ni ukuvuga ko nzagira n’ubukungu kuko 


KOT4547’2 

nzategeka aba..ntukishaho. Umututsi biva aho ku kinyarwanda cya kera kivuga "gutuka". 

Gutuka, bitaribyo gutukana bya gishumba ni ugutuka ahubwo byo gutanga umugisha. Umugisha... 

umututsi rero akaba ail umuntu watutswe n’Imana ikamuha gutunga no gutunganirwa. Ubu iryo 

«6 

jambo gutuka risigaye mu magambo make cyane, nk’iyo babwira umuntu ukomeye, ngo 

zitukwamo nkuru". Ni muri icyo cyerekezo iryo jambo ah..ni ahongaho rituruka. Kuko yari amaze 

gufata ubutegetsi noneho ahasigaye ubutegetsi bukamuha gutunga no gutunganirwa. Ntagire icyo 

abura. Noneho umuhutu we waa.. wari umwami, ad umutware w’indi miryango myinshi akaba 

asigaye ail umuhinza igihe adapfuye we ee. bakavugako ari umuntuhakana. Ufite imbaraga 

z’umubiri, izo mbaragakazikoresha kugirango abone ibitunga wa mututsi agubwe neza kandi 

abeho. Abeho nta mpungenge afite kuko afite umurinda. Umurinda rero ni wa mututsi. Ubuhake 

ni ubwo. Ibyo bintu rero byabayeho imyak amagana. Kugeza igihe abazungu baziye. Nibyo 

abazungu bakuyeho. Abazungu bagize...nako ni..nibyo abazungu basanze. Bahageze rero bareba 

uko ibintu bimeze, bagereranya n’ibindi bibafutamiye, bidahuye n’imitwe yabo uko ubwenge bwabo 

babona ibintu bimwe babikuraho nk’imitegekere yariho. 

Kera mu Rwanda rw’abanyiginya, hahoze abatware bitwa abatware b’ingabo..abatware b’ingabo, 

abatware bi..b’ubutaka, abatware bi..b’umukenke, b’ubwatsi. Abo babakuraho babasimbuza 

umutware umwe. Ubwo ndashaka kugera rero kuri cya kibazo cya Ravi aho yavugaga ko abahutu 

batinyutse, baratinyuka bakababakungu nabo, bakitwa abatutsi; ko n’abazungu babibafashijemo. 

Byari bimeze bite mu by’ukuri? 

Abazungu bashakaga ibintu biboroheye mu kazi kabo. Bahasanze ibintu byitwaga "uburetwa". 

Ubwo ubuhake d’abord, hanyuma n’ibi.n’uburetwa. 

Uburetwa bukaba imirimo y’agahato wagombaga gukora buri cyumweruyikorera umutware. Nta 

gihembo. Yo no..byongera aho rero baragira bat ibintu birakomeye. Abantu (inaudible), bazakomeza 

bakorere agahato koko birashoboka? Noneho barebye bati umva, umuhutu wabanye n’abatutsi kuva 

kera, kuko hari abahutu babanaga n’abanyiginya kera bakaza guhindura ubwoko bakiyita 

abanyîginya ibyo ni ibintu byabaye cyane cyane mu karere ka Butare. Ni ibintu bikunze kuboneka 


14 

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rwose. Bakareba umuhum nmaka bati ba umwega. Kubera ko imiryango 

kera, yabanye n’abamtsi 

baramuhatse noneho baga..bikaza kwibagirana agafata ubwoko bwabo. Icyo n’igipande cya mbere. 

Mbo. Icya kabiri ni icyo cy’abazungu rero. Abazungu barareba bati: "ibi bintu ntibishoboka". Ni 

mu myaka ya za makumyabiri. Ababirigi barareba bati ibi bintu ntabwo bishobora gukomeza gutya 

ahubwo ee., abahum...mbo...abatutsi bad aho barategeka koko, Musenyeri KLASSE yari yaranditse 

ko nta bandi bashobora gutegeka igihugu ko aribo Imana yatoreye gutegeka igihugu bonyine. Mbo. 

Iyo politiki rero abagi..ababirigi barayigumana noneho barareba bati ariko rero birakomeye. 

Hari abantu b’abakungu koko bafite inka zabo zitwa imbata zavuye kuu..ku nkwano cyangwa ku 

myaka yabo, cya..hari abafite izo bahatswemo izo bahatswemo, ariko abo bantu bose, kubera 

gukenera izo nka ntabwo bashobora gukora n’uburetwa. 

Ntibagerek...ntibayigerekeranya no gukora uburetwa. Ni naho bavuze bati kuva ubu umuntu wese 

ufite inka makumyabiri azabafite statut (inaudible). 

Icyo gihe abantu benshi barihutura bamera nk’abatutsi. Ye, (inaudible) biba ngombwa kurongora 

abakobwa babo biba ngombwa kubana nabo warangiza ukavuga n’igifaransa 

ukagan...ukavugana..korana n’abazungu, gutyo. Nibwo rero baje kwihutura, ...kugaruka bavuga bati 

njyew..twebwe turi abahutu ibyo aribyo byose! Ye[ Runaka ngo mu ndangamu..mu., 

mw’ ibuku 

ye ntihari handitsemo ko ad umututsi? Kubera iki? Kubera ko abazungu bararebye bati ntabwo 

abantu bakomeye., baruta ibyo by’abahutu bafite inka bashobora gukora uburetwa ngo 

bagerekeho, e., no..mu..korora inka zabo. Bati ibyiza ni uko twabaha statut y’abatutsi bakava ku 

buretwa. Ariko bazi neza ko ad abahutu, abo bo kugirango baboneke neza bemera ko ari abatutsi. 


Karori, Karori umbwiye ikiranga umututsi kuri we tuvuga ibyerekeye ubukungu. Ariko Madamu 

MBONAMPEKA yigeze kuvuga ati ubuhutu, ubututsi buri muri kamere y’umuntu. Ndetse nawe 

Karori wigeze kuvuga uti wigeze kuvuga uti utii..ii..bi bintu by’ubumtsi, bya..by’ubuhutu, uti 

abazungu barabyanditse, uti harimo n’ibintu, by’ikimero by’uko umuntu ateye. Madamu 


MBONAMPEKA, wowe wigeze kuvuga utii ubututsi n’ubuhutu buri muri kamere. 

K0145474 

Karori avuga ibyerekeye ikimero. E, koko, wamaze kutubwira Karori amaze kuvuga neza 

ikiitandukanya umuhutu n’umututsi ku buryo bw’ubukungu. Ku buryo bw’ikimero, hari 

igitandukanya umuhutu n’umututsi? Madamu MBONAMPEKA. 

-ORATEUR: Madamu MBONAMPEKA Marie-Claire 

Ngirango kera byari biriho koko, ee.., kukoo..umuntuu..e..byaranagaragaye 

no bindi bihugu 

bitarino ahangaha mu Rwanda gusa, uko umuntu yariye, uko umuntu yambaye, uko umuntuu.., 

yaryamye, biigira icyo bihindura, ku miterere ye, ee., y’umubiri. Niyo mpamvu rero nkuko niba 

ubukungu bwari bwihariwe koko n’abatutsi, ibyo baryaga bikaba byari bitandukanye n’iby’abahutu, 

ku.. kimero, ku mimerere ye y’umubiri w’umuntu, byashoboraga kugaragara. Ariko ubungubu, iyo 

urebye, ee..uko ibintu byifashe ubungubu, usanga byaa..bitari atariho bishingiye; ntabwo ari 

amazuru, atandukanya umuhutu n’umututsi kuko umwana wariye neza wanyoye amata,.. (inaudible). 

Kuko avec les (inaudible) uko ibinjtu bigenda bihinduka, ntabwo ariko ubungubu twashigiraho 

tuvuga ngoo..uriya ni umututsi (inaudible). 


Nagirangoo..mpe ijambo BARAYAGWlZA. Ku bwawe, ubuhutu n’ubututsi buri muri kamere? 

-ORATEUR: BARAYAGWlZA Yohani Bosco 

E, ibyo icyo kibazoo..ee..ubundi ndagisubizaa..nyuma, ndashaka kugaruka 

byo Ravi yavuze 

kuko e. ndumvaa..ariho yenda igisubizo nza kuguha ni icyongicyo. 

E., wigeze kutubaza uti ese muri mwe hari uwemera ko amoko atabaho? Twese twacecetse. Ariko 

Ravi yantangaje, yemeza ko amoko atabaho, kuko yavuze ko abantu bavanze ku buryo udashobora 

kumenya umuhutu n’umututsi, anaza mo guhamya ko n’aba bakihari b’udusigarizwa; abatutsi baba 


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bangana n’abahutu mu mubare. Ndashaka kugirango rero nerekane ko ibyo Ravi yavuze yenda mu 

byo atekereza, (inaudible); cyangwa n’ukwibeshya. 

Kuko, muri mirongo itanu n’umunani, umwami RUDAHIGWA wari uhari nawe yibajije icyo 

kibazo cya Ravi. Ati umuhutu ni nde? Umututsi ni..ni nde? Ye, ni mbere y’uko abahutu nabo 

batangira kugira ibintu! Ibihe ni uko abahutu nabo batangira gukira! Icyo kibazo yarakibajije. Ati: 

"ntimukomeze kuvuga ko abahutu n’abatutsi babaho, ba..badahuye, kuko mudafite ibimenyetso 

byerekana uko wab..wabavangura". (inaudible). Ndetse aza gushyigikirwa no..n’ibisonga bye 

bivuga ko rwose ba GITERA ba KAYIBANDA bihandagaza bavuga yuko bafite ikibazo; ko ari 

abahutu bafite ikibazo, ko babeshya ko nta bahutu babaho ko nta n’ikibazo cy’abahutu kibaho. Baza 

gushyigikirwa uwo mu...mwami RUDAHIGWA, ashyigikirwa n’umugabo ukomeye cyane e..wa.. 

wari Musenyeri icyo gihe, yitwaga BIGIRUMWAMI. Nawe aravugati ntimukabeshye. Ninde ufite 

ibimenyetso byerekana ko umuhutu abaho, ko umututsi abaho? Ibyo byose nkuko nabivuze mbere 

byavugwaga icyo gihe abahutu batarashobora kugira ibintu, batarashobora gutunga, batarashobora 

kugira za ngingo nziza, ee.., nkuko abatutsi bari bazifite babaho neza. Ubwo rero Ravi asubiye muri 

mirongo itanu n’umunani. Niho asubiye. Niho ikibazo agishubije. Ariko arongeraho ati abantu 

baravanze ku buryo udashobora kubavangura. 

Nibyo koko. Hari abavanze. Na Madamu MBONAMPEKA yabivuze. Hari abavanze. Ariko 

abavanze ni bake! Hari ababyanze nkuko yabivuze! Hari abatarabishatse! Iki..icya mbere bavuga 

kuri uko kuvanga, n’uko uko kuvanga kwabaye uruhande mmwe! Ahanini, 

abahutu barongoye 

abatutsikazi. Abatutsi barongoye abahutukazi ni mbarwa, wababarira ku ntoki. Icyo n’icya mbere. 

Icya kabiri; n’abo bahutu barongoye abatutsikazi, nabo ni bake! Ni mbarwa. 

Njyewe, nakubwira nk’iwacu; iriyaa..iwacu kuri Mutura, duturanye n’abatutsi b’abagogwe ariko 

nakubwira ko kugirango ubone umuhutu warongoye umugogwe wakwiriza umunsi. Kugirango 

ubone umututsi w’umugogwe warongoye umuhutu, ho wakwirirwa waa..mara imyaka utaramubona. 

Iwacu ndetse iyo urongoye umututsikazi, ntabwo mu muryango baa..bireba neza! Hari n’ahandi 

henshi bimeze gutyo. Iyo rero tugarutse no ku kibazo, avuga ngoo..ngoo barateranye baravanze, ku 

buryo abahutu baba bangana n’abatutsi. Ravi, ngirango azi uko abanyarwanda bangana muri iki 


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gihugu. Yemeye, (ndi kubivuga uko yabyemeye atabyemeye neza) yuko abahutu babaho cyangwa babagaho, 

n’abatutsi babagaho. 

Ubu ho abanyarwanda turi miliyoni umunani. Dukurikije imibare; atari iby’ubu no kuva kera, 

abahutu bari hafi mirongocyenda kw’ijana. Kw’ijana. Ubu ahubwo barenze mirongo..mirongo 

icyenda kw’ijana. Abamtsi bari icyenda kw’ijana. Tubaze twihuta ukavuga ko murii., izo miliyoni 

umunani makumyabiri kw’ijanad abantu bash..bashobora kurongora, ni ukuvuga ko wabona 

abatutsi ibihumbi ijana na mirongo itandatu. Kuko bangana n’ii..cumi kw’ijana (nabagize benshi!) 

bangana n’icumi kw’ij..kw’ijana, ni ukuvuga magma inani, ibihumbi magma inane, muri ibyo 

bihumbi magana inane wenda tuvuge yuko, makumyabiri kw’ij ana bashobora kurongora. (inaudible). 

Abahutu, miliyonii..indwi n’ibihumbi maganabiri makumyabiri kw’ijana ni miliyoni ibihumbi 

magma inani na mirong..na mirongo itanu; hafi; bashobora kurongora. Nkumva rero ko, tuvuge yuko 

abahutu, abatutsi, bose; tubagize n’abagore bose, bakarongorwa n’abahutu, hazarongorwa 

abatutsikazi ibihumbi ijana na mirongo itandatu! Abahutu, hafi .... miliyoni imwe n’ibihumbi magma 

atatu bazasigara batunze abahutu..abahutukazi. Ubwo se ba..bangana bate? Ntibishoboka! Urumva 

ko iyo ni imibare...uvugira, ntabwo bishoboka yuko abahutu baba bangana n’abatutsi ngo n’uko hari 

abahutu barongoye aba..aa..abahutukazi abayaa..abahutu barongoye abatutsikazi. 


None rero ndagingo ukomeze; ndigirango ukomeze, ee..umaze kwerekana iyo mibare, uvuga utii 

ibyo Ravi yavuze simbyemera ndamuha ijambo. Ku bwawe ubututsi buri muri kamere? N’ubuhutu 

buri muri kamere y’umuntu? 

-ORATEUR: BARAYAGWIZA Yohani Bosco 

Ubumtsii...ee..Bwana Karori yavuzee., ibyi...ibimenyetso bimwe, ariko cyane cyane byabagaho kera, 

kuko ubundi n’ abahutu, hari abahutu bakize bamerewe neza kandi bemera ko ad abahutu. 

Ubungubu e. ntawe ukivuga ngo ubwoko bwe ngo ndi umututsi. Reka dal Usibye ko araho..hari 

Cassette n° 0200 transcrire par K.G

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ibihutu bitemera ko ad abahutu; ba..ba..ii..bamwe bav..bavuga ko abahutu batabaho abatutsi 

bakabaho! Na.. no mu bahutu barimo. Arîko ibyo nti...e.icyo ntabwo kikirildmenyetso cy’ubututsi. 

Byahozeho kera. Ikimenyetso cyahozeho kera kandi kikiriho, ntabwo ad kamere gusa, ngirango ni 

n’uburere. Icyo bita culture ce.. mu kizungu. Uburere. Uzarebee..urnwana w’umuhutu, njye 

ndabyivugiraho ko ndi umwana w’umuhutu, data ni umuhutu, sogokuru ni umuhutu, sogokuruza 

ni umuhutu, na..n’abo kwa mama bose. Ibii..sekum byanjye kugeza ku gisekuru cya cyendahari. 

Ni abahutu, bandeze gihutu. La culture y’abahutu. Niyo narerewemo. 

Bandeze njyewe navutsee révolution yo muri mirongo itanu n’icyenda itarabaho, nasanze dat akora 

uburetwa nkuko Bwana Karori yabivuze. Nasanze Mama ajya kubagarira umututsikazi. Abatutsi 

bari..ba..ba..badutegekaga. Nasanze, sogokuru atanga amakoro. Ibyo byose narabibonye, 

bakambwira bati na..nababaza nti ese kuki mujya guhingira abandi, kuki mujya kubagarira abandi 

ibyacu bimeze nabi? Bati niko bimeze, tugomba gukorera abatutsi. Umututsi bakamureba bavuga 

yuko agomba kumenya yuko ariwe mutegetsi. Ko umwana w’umuhutu agomba kumenya yuko 

ategekwa. No mw’ishuri aho twajyaga mw’ishuri, ( ee..njye nigaga kuri birometeroo..icumi; ahantu 

hitwa i Busasamana) twagendaga dupfunyitse. Bakaduha igihe cyoo..cyo kurya mu ma saa sita. Nta 

muhutu wasangiraga n’umututsi. Byari bibujijwe. Abatutsi, baba...babigishaga yuko batagomba 

gusangira n’abahutu. Natwe bakatwigisha gutinyabatutsi. Ntabwo rero twe ari uko tutashakaga 

gusangira nabo kuko bo bazanaga n’uturyo turyoshye twe tuzana impungure! Bo 

bakaba...bakizaniraa..ntuza ibirayi birimo amamesa, (avuge aseka) tukifuza gusangira nabo 

ntitubishobore kuko byari bibishye. 

Uzi koo..uu..uzi 

nko muri Ministère y’ubwu..bubanyi n’amahanga nagenze amahanga, nagiye 

hirya no hino, uzi ko ee..iyo culture, abatutsi benshi bakiyifite; cyane cyane abad mu mahanga. 

Abasomyee...ibinyamateka byitwa Impuruza bazi ibyo mvuze ibyo aribyo. 

Ubwo rero, ee..mu byoo..Madamu MBONAMPEKA yavuze, mu byo Karori yavuze, nongeyeho 

icyongicyo cya culture, icyo cy’uburere, mu byerekana, ee..ubwoko umuntu avukamo. 


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19 


Ibyo wenda turaza kubigarukaho, ariko nagirango tutanigana ijambo Ravi mubaze niba ibyo 

ee..Bosco yavuze abyemera niba hari icyo yamubeshyeyeho cyangwa niba Ravi hari icyo 

yongeraho. Ravi, twaguha ijambo. 

-ORATEUR: RWABUKWlSI Ravi 

GAHIGI, urakoze, ee..kare n’uko mutampaye umwanya wo guseka numvaga rwose mwa..mwari 

kundeka ngaseka, kubera yuko..birashekeje. 

-ORATEUR: Gaspard GAHIGI (amuce mw’ijambo) 

Turi mu kiganiro n’ushaka ujye useka ntaa .... 

[ baraseka ] 

-ORATEUR: RWABOEWISI Ravi (akomeze ijambo) 

Ee..BARAYAGWIZA aragi., agize atii..byambabajee..kandi biranansetsa mu..ku ruhande rumwe, 

ati iwacu bandeze gihutu. Ku rundi ruhande arongera ati iwacu kuri Mutura nta muhuturongora 

umututsi. Byambabaje sincèrement kuko biratandukanye cyane bitandukanye n’imibereho y’iwacu, 

ari nacyo ntekereza kibazo mbeg afite kubera yuko kuba wararezwe ukarerwa gihutu, je crois 

que .... 

(inaudible) 

[ FACE B irarangiye ] 

-FIN-

K0145460 ¯ ,_ ~ -- .~,~-~~~ ~

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