Et Alors? Magazine 19

et alors?
a flamboyant art magazine

© Fleur Pierets

editorial
Darlings,
‘The one thing
they all have
in common is
the ability to
make our hearts
beat a little
faster with the
promise of great
possibilities.’
The thing we like most about making and writing Et Alors?
Magazine is that it’s a project in motion. A venture that keeps
transforming and evolving in the same way that we do.
In our first issue we started off with tons of photoshoots,
interviews with close artist-friends and an eagerness to
discover all the drag queens in this world. Along the process
of writing and talking to people, however, we discovered that
our heart lies with telling stories. Inspiring readers by telling
the stories of inspirational people. Spreading the message
that it’s okay to be or feel different, that a lot of people have
been there and showing what good came out of that!
Meanwhile, we too kept evolving - don’t worry, we still have a
soft spot for drag queens - but with issue 19 in the making we
took yet another slightly different approach to what we want
to express by putting our thoughts online and bundling them
into a magazine. Not only do we want to share the artist talks
we had in the past few months, we also want to show you
some amazing places we came across along the way. Places
where artists went awol while creating their own unique
world they call paradise.
We kick off with Le Jardin d’Hélys, an experimental art place,
created ages ago by an artist duo now in their seventies. We
unexpectedly ran across the house and garden while passing
through the smallest of places in France. Alain and Monique
invited us in and gave us a grand tour of the house -one of
the highlights being an installation covered in dust, cobwebs
and it’s inhabitants. Monique passionately called it her ode to
Louise Bourgeois.
Furthermore we’ll show you which other artists we came
across and inspired us. Sometimes just one picture,
sometimes an entire series. Point is that we felt enthusiastic
to share it with you.
Alike the artist talks we had this summer. We spoke to Sarah
Bettens, charismatic front woman of the international rock
band K’s Choice, South-African artist Lebogang Mokgoko
and writer Annelies Verbeke. The one thing they all have in
common is the ability to make our hearts beat a little faster
with the promise of great possibilities.
Enjoy reading our 19th issue of Et Alors? Magazine as much
as we enjoyed assembling it. It comes from a good place.
Keep safe, stay gorgeous,
Fleur & Julian
003

et alors? magazine
september 2016
issue 19
Text & research
Fleur Pierets
Artwork & layout
Julian P. Boom
Contributors
Damien Frost
Frank Clauwers
Guda Koster
Keletso Nkabiti
Lee Sol
Lunga Ntila
table of contents
Editorial
Table of contents
Night Flowers
Lee Sol
Sarah Bettens
Guda Koster
The Tourists
Annelies Verbeke
Le Jardin d’Hélys
Lebogang Mokgoko
002
004
006
016
024
034
042
046
054
070
Et Alors? Magazine © 2016
www.etalorsmagazine.com
004

Et Alors? Magazine is an online
project in motion, co-created by
female artist duo and lovers Fleur
Pierets and Julian P. Boom, who’s
work questions the mainstream
understandings and the
construction of the (gay) identity.
Their conceptual self-portraits
and staged scenes challenge
the boundaries of gender and
contemporary femininity through
visual knowledge.
In Et Alors? Magazine, Fleur &
Julian publish their conversations
with musicians, visual artists,
writers and performers by whom
they are inspired, and share
artwork and locations that caught
their eye.
Subscribe to our quarterly
newsletter, submit your work or
just say hello at
info@etalorsmagazine.com
fleur & julian say thanks to
Tracy Atkins
Renate Breuer
Ingrid Van Den Bossche
cover
Photo Guda Koster
Location The Netherlands
Talents Conceptual artist
Website www.gudakoster.nl
© All material in this magazine is copyrighted as indicated.
005

night
flowers
interview fleur pierets
photos damien frost

As most of central London closes down late at night and
the crowds head home, there are a select few who only
come out after midnight. These ‘Night Flowers’, as they
refer to themselves, encompass a loose-knit community
of drag kings and queens, club kids, Goths, alternative
queer and transgender people, fetishists, and cabaret
and burlesque performers – all of whom bloom late
at night and burn brightly under the city’s neon lights.
Damien Frost’s arresting photographic portraits capture
those who dwell on the fringes of nightlife in modern
London, dressing in all manner of guises. The resulting
book is an extraordinary and powerful document of the
ultimate alternative street style.
How did you come across the Night Flowers?
It wasn’t intentional at all – I started a portraita-day
project where I set out to take a photo of
a stranger every day for a year. I wanted to take
photos of the more “interesting” characters I would
see out on the streets of London. In an attempt to
document what I like about this town – the large
cross-section of people in the city, but also the idea
that, to a certain extent, you can be who you choose
to be in a town like this. As the project progressed I
started to stay out later and later in search of ever more
interesting characters to photograph and this is how I
began photographing the Night Flowers.
Tell me about the zeitgeist. Is it a relatively new scene
of performers?
I’d say that at the moment it’s a fairly exciting time in
London – there are a number of very established people
performers, drag artists and club kids and still there
are always new people popping up and visiting from
abroad. There are a number of clubs, pubs and parties
that really foster and encourage this sort of creative
expression. It can be quite a diverse scene and also
a strong community. The people in my photographs
are a mix of established, new artists and performers,
but there’s definitely a focus on the younger end of
the spectrum. Mostly because I live in East London
and the scene here tends to be a bit younger and a bit
grittier (and trashier to some extent). For some of them
I might be capturing their first night out in drag and it
can be interesting mapping their journey from slightly
clunky and rough make up to incredibly refined and
extraordinary looks. There are others who have been on
the scene for years and are seasoned performers. But
I enjoy shooting both just as equally. My photographs
are very much a product of chance and who I happen to
see on that night. I do however gravitate towards taking
photos of the more extreme or avant-garde looks
(regardless of who they are) rather than taking photos
of personalities.
How’s London these days when it comes to Night
Flowers’?
It’s interesting using the term Night Flowers to describe
a community because as much as it’s defined by the
drag and club kid scene it’s also encompassed by the
Goth and burlesque, cabaret and fetish scenes, as well
as owing a debt to the dandies of years past. London
has a long lineage of this sort of creative expression.
Ever since the explosion of the club kid scene in the 80’s
it’s been a part of the tapestry of London’s nightlife to
one degree or another. Yet it could be argued that in
the last few years it’s undergone a bit of a renaissance,
perhaps buoyed by the popularity of television shows
like Drag Race or simply through social media channels
which have maybe encouraged people to push the
limits a bit further and play with more avant-garde
looks and fashions. More importantly the social media
channels have helped foster a community and make it
more visible and subsequently offer a support network
for people wishing to explore this side of themselves.
But like anything else it ebbs and flows and changes
location and feeling, as venues or club nights close and
new ones open and attract slightly different audiences.
Is the series a document of time?
I do see the series very much as a document of a time
and place. One thing that people often don’t realize
with the images is that they’re not set up- the photos
are taken on the streets and in clubs where the people
are already dressed like this. There’s no styling involved
and aside from standing them in front of a particular
background and getting them to stand a certain way
there’s no styling or pre-planning involved. I’d like to
think that in 20 years time you’ll be able to look back at
these images and get a feel for what was happening in
this particular form of creative expression in London at
this time.
What’s your personal fascination with them?
In a general sense it’s the creative expression. I like
the ephemeral nature of it - the fact that certain looks
may never be repeated or that people might only be
experimenting with this type of expression and might
only be doing it for a short period. And also the sense
of community. I’m attracted to the anti-establishment
008

‘The popularity of
television shows like
Drag Race and social
media channels,
encourage people to
push the limits a bit
further and play with
more avant-garde
looks and fashions.’

ethos that’s inherent in the scene. When I was younger
I used to hang out with a lot of Goths and punks and
I see a parallel between the scenes - a rejection of
societal norms and a general feeling that you can be
who you want to be. Or in the case of many people
in the photographs; undergo a process of constant
reinvention.
What inspired you to turn it into a series?
This came about quite naturally. During the process
of taking a portrait a day I started to realize that I was
documenting a loose-knit community. I’ve always been
interested in aspects of community and to a certain
extent the process of ethnography. I see this project
as an extension of this. I also felt slightly guilty for
demanding so much time from people, taking them
out onto the cold streets to take photos and I felt that
by turning it into a book it would also somehow justify
all the time and effort everyone was giving me. Also as
I started to pose most of the subjects of the portraits in
front of dark backgrounds (which are usually dark walls
on the street or sometimes a portable backdrop I’d take
to parties with me) the photos naturally started to feel
like they were part of a series.
You have a background in opera and theatre. Is this a
continuation of your work?
There are definite parallels between my day job and
my photographs but one of the main differences is
that in my day job - where I work as a graphic designer
and sometimes photographer / art director for theatre,
opera and ballet - the people I’m working with are
playing a character. With my photographs, sometimes
the people I photograph see themselves as playing a
character when they are out of make-up. When they’re
in their make-up and costume in the dark of the night,
that’s when they truly become themselves. It can be a
difficult thing to do sometimes. But for the most part
I try to avoid taking photos of people who are playing
“fancy dress”. Instead I’m looking for people who are
expressing some part of who they really are.
What’s next?
I’d really like to continue this series of photos in other
cities and in other countries and I’ve also started a
project portraying strangers and how I’m fascinated by
the inside of their homes.
www.soulstatic.net
www.merrellpublishers.com
015

lee sol

To be honest, the colour pink never fails to excite
me, yet it seems always a bit uncomfortable to
incorporate in art. Its use in Barbies clothes and
girl’s toys associates the color with femaleness
and intimacy and makes it one of the less neutral
colours, often - both in an uplifting and derogatory
way - discussed in gender issues. In Bad Feminist,
her collection of essays, American feminist writer
Roxane Gay even states that: “I used to say my
favourite colour was black to be cool, but it is
pink – all shades of pink. If I have an accessory it
is probably pink.” Which, according to her own
judgement, makes her a bad feminist. However,
things seem to change. Newspaper The Guardian
recently published an article taking on a new
approach on pink and and wrote that “In recent
years pink has become a dirty word associated
with gendered toys and stereotypical ‘girliness’.
But now writers and artists are fighting to redefine
the colour as subversive and grown up”. British
artists Liv Thurley and Aryana Hessami even curated
PINKD, a limited-edition art book that featured 30
artists exploring Pink art in today’s society. One of
the artists not afraid of using the color is Korean
graphic artist Lee Sol. Via his Instagram account
@venusmansion he brings a 3-d surreal mixture of
classical sculptures like Michelangelo’s David and
Venus de Milo into a candy coloured dream world.
The iconic statues stand in line for what can either
be an unemployment office or they are sidelined,
waiting for the garbage truck because they are too
many, and their duplications got out of hand. An all
pink display - consisting of vases, shoes, candles, a
Hermés handbag and Starck’s Juicy Salif - is waiting
for customers, or for someone to lick it and check if
it tastes just like it looks. Or maybe it’s just there for
no reason at all. When asked about the narrative, Sol
explained that he “prefers his audiences to have an
open interpretation and enjoy the works more freely
rather than to give away the purpose of meaning
behind the works of Venus Mansion.” His work is a
means to express himself and comes from emotions
that arise from seeing a certain object. The graphic
artist recently commissioned for Vogue Korea and
turned 6 brightly coloured berets into a work of art.
www.instagram.com/venusmansion
021

“When we
talk about the
culture we
consume it is
often a dance
around how
we wish to be
seen; what
we enjoy
reflects on
who we are.”

grayson perry

sarah
bettens
interview fleur pierets
photos frank clauwers

I’ve always been very much intrigued by Sarah
Bettens. When I saw K’s Choice perform in 1994
they had not yet recorded their monster hit “Not
an Addict”, which opened doors not only in Europe
but also lead to touring across the US with, amongst
others, Alanis Morissette and the Indigo Girls. Yet in
1994 I saw a girl run to her microphone, hold onto
it for the entire song and who looked at her feet for
the duration of the applause. A lot has changed since
then and that girl cannot be compared to the über-fit
and charismatic front woman she is today. We catch
up in the backstage area of a Dutch music festival to
talk about change, identity and challenges.
You once said you were lucky K’s Choice became
popular. What’s luck got to do with it?
I think there was a lot of coincidence involved. My
brother and I have been making music for as long as
I can remember but we never thought about it as a
future job. The idea itself was even too unrealistic to
dream about, so let’s just say we never considered it
a possibility.
Then someone asked me to sing something in a
studio and before we knew it we had a hit-single on
the radio and things started evolving. There wasn’t
any plan behind it. If I contemplate our position right
now, I can see the amount of work and effort that
we have put into it, yet I must say that we did indeed
get very lucky. We met the right people at the right
time. Of course you have to be present in order for
those people to find you, but we were very lucky to
kick off mid-’90’s, when record companies still had
a lot of money and room for development. We’re
talking about a completely different era here. They
allowed us time to grow, which is almost impossible
nowadays. We’re also lucky that we’re still - after 25
years - able to make music for a living. We still have
fun and we’re still doing things that challenge us,
both as musicians and performers. There’s nothing
worse for creativity than routine so once in a while
we have to shake things up a bit.
How do you shake things up?
Well, for example we changed our working method
when making The Phantom Cowboy - our last record.
Normally Gert and I write separately and then bring
things together to see what happens. This time we
started with a concept and actually knew how we
wanted the record to sound. Things like this, and
also things like introducing The Backpack Sessions
- an intimate tour with only our pianist - are our
means to keeping it fresh.
Do you need challenges?
I think so, I’m not a stressed out person but I like
change, both in my job and in my personal life.
At the moment we’re on the verge of moving to
California and there’s a lot to do, but that’s fun. We’re
going to start over. It’s like making a new record
and working with a new producer, even though the
previous one was great, you never know what it’s
going to bring. My sense of adventure is far greater
than being comforted by foreseeing the future.
A couple of years ago you started working as a fire
fighter? Why?
I needed it because music started to become
somewhat of a routine. I needed to do something
that was completely different, a job where I had
to show up and go back home after 24 hours. As a
musician you can start working at 2 in the afternoon
or you can work the whole night through. You work
on your music, your plans, your career, your writing,
you name it. It never stops. You can work all day and
there will still be that feeling that you can do more.
It’s never finished. So I looked for something that
was defined, which I found in being a fire fighter.
You cannot imagine how much I learned there and
it still brought me the eagerness to learn even more.
Because of that, being a musician made me happier
again.
Do you have any creative rituals when you start
composing?
We did in the beginning, but I’ve kind of abandoned
the idea of needing hours of time, the right mood
and even the perfect star constellation - in order to
write the perfect song. Now we just sit down with a
guitar and start. The Phantom Cowboy was written
in two weeks time. Gert and I sat down in a room
from 9 to 5 and just worked. We stopped waiting
for the right light interval or the most opportune
emotional state of mind.
Is art inevitably self-portraiture?
I think so. You keep talking about things that are
close to you. Its shape changes but the subject
doesn’t. As you get older your world changes, you
get married, have children, yet there are themes that
keep returning. Now we’re moving I found some old
interview from when I was 20 years old. How stupid
026

and serious I was! Nowadays I take my music, my
job, very seriously but not myself. Now we’re able to
write a song that’s ‘just fun’, it doesn’t always have
to be about the most deep down, thorough, detailed
emotion. At this point we’re able to lighten up.
You are outspoken about being gay. Do you feel
you have a moral responsibility?
I do like taking my moral responsibility. I like it that
young girls or boys can look at me and know that I’m
married to a woman and yet look very normal. When
I was young I only had Navratilova, and even she was
not very outspoken. The issue just wasn’t discussed.
It took me so long to discover who I was and I think
that if I was born now, I might’ve found that out by
the time I was 16. There are so many possibilities now,
people can talk about being gay, being transgender.
Things that weren’t discussable twenty years ago.
Of course there’s still a lot of work to be done, but
as a public person I hope to make the world just that
little bit more normal for gay people. Writing and
making music is a very nice way to communicate
with people and to discover that you have much
more in common than you would think. When you’re
a teenager that can be quite therapeutic.
Jeff Koons once said: ‘Being an artist is not a job,
it’s an identity’.
I think I rather identify myself as the wife of my
wife, the mother of my children and the daughter
of my parents, my friends, than as an artist. Don’t
get me wrong, music is a great platform and making
music is something that can’t be compared to
many things. When you leave the studio at night
and you’ve created something you didn’t know
existed that very morning, it’s incomparable. That
little bit of fear, that you’re never going to be able
to do it anymore, or the feeling that you’ve given
everything but aren’t sure if there’s anything left. I
have to admit that’s a unique and an on top of the
world feeling. But to say it’s an identity, that’s too
much. I identify much more as a human being than
as a musician.
You and your wife adopted 2 children a few years
ago. As a mother, what would you like to teach
them?
I want them to be able to be themselves. The world
won’t always appreciate or understand that, but at
least they have to try. I also want them to work hard.
‘I’m longing for
a world where
everybody can be
more relaxed into
doing what they
want to do.’
I enjoy my life very much because I work hard for
the things that I find important; to be happy, to do
things with my family. If you feel very good about
something, then it’s often something that took a
while for you to get there. For me, getting divorced
wasn’t an easy road to take, nor was adoption or
moving to the States. But they did make me happy
in the long run. I feel very strongly that I’m the happy
person I am today, because of all the decisions I
have made in my life. I’m very grateful about the
circumstances and being lucky at the same time,
but I also made it happen through the choices that I
made along the way. Next to getting sick or loosing
somebody, your fate lies very much in your own
hands. So how committed are you to work for it?
So in retrospect, you wouldn’t change anything?
I’ve gone through some painful stages yet I’m very
happy with who I am right now. Everything that’s
happened has made me into the person I am today.
Fortunately I’m quite forgetful so that might help
(laughs).
I can’t imagine anything more drastic than what
happened to me when I met my wife. Before that
I wasn’t really happy but I thought that was just
the way people were. When I found out who I was
I literally stepped from a world of darkness into the
light. All was black and white and I changed from
being - I’m not saying depressed because that’s
too strong of an emotion - but from heavy hearted
and melancholic to one of the most joyous people I
know. Almost in the blink of an eye.
031

A question I also ask myself: How could you not
have known?
I have absolutely no idea. Maybe it has to do with
the era in which I was born. I think that if I would be
16 years old at this very moment, I would probably
jump right in.
In retrospect I conformed a great deal. Especially
because I wanted to dress like a boy but I didn’t want
to embarrass the people around me. If it would only
have been about me, than there would’ve been no
boundaries. I always had to fight for my place in
high school, something you don’t quite understand
when you’re so young. That’s what I like so much
about the whole gender conversation. Who cares
about all that? You could say that it’s safe to fit in,
but is it really? How many people are there that get a
wake-up call when they’re 30. I’m longing for a world
where everybody can be more relaxed into doing
what they want to do. Everything feels so restricted.
What do you think is your purpose in life?
It depends on when you ask the question.
Sometimes you feel so small wondering what’s
your part in this larger entity. When you dare to
think about the concept of time, the universe, or
the fact that we are standing on something circular,
then it’s almost impossible to ponder the meaning
of your own life. Everything is so grand and you are
so small in comparison.
Yet when I do have to answer on the meaning of
‘my’ life, I think it’s trying to change and affect
the world around me by being happy and treating
people with respect. I’m a bit too cynical to be able
to positively say it’s going to change the world, but
it would be a good start. When I hear those terrible
stories about sick children or refugee children,
things that neither you or anybody else can fix, I
often reflect that being grateful about the things
you have and are able to do, is the very least you
can do. Trying to give as little thought as possible
to the small things that bother you.
So every morning when I wake up I keep my eyes
closed and think about the things I’m grateful for.
That’s the absolute minimum you can do when you
see all the damage that’s been done in the world.
If everybody would make the effort to change his
own little corner in a positive way, it would already
mean a lot.
www.kschoice.be
032

guda koster

036
‘Koster is inspired
by daily life, by the
way people are
expressing their
identity and social
position through
fashion.’

I remember having a wooden box, filled with leftover
clothes from my mother and her sister. The costume
box was one of my favourite toys and I could spend
hours making up stories and fairytales, stimulated
by only putting on a dress and hanging some shawls
in my rooms. The work of Dutch artist Guda Koster
reminds me of the stories I invented. They are
mysterious and challenging, and speak equally of
liberation and imprisonment. Koster is inspired by
daily life, by the way people are expressing their
identity and social position through fashion. She
builds the sets, makes the clothes and photographs
mainly herself, adding new layers to her personality
as a result. Her living sculptures and photographs
blur the line between what’s visible and what’s not,
between personal identity and object, which in many
ways is the most diverse you can get in the human
spectrum. Daily life, identity and transforming the
human body are the main themes in Koster’s work,
which has no set time or space and is therefor open
for all interpretation and imagination.
www.gudakoster.nl
041

© Fleur Pierets

Installation - The Tourists
Photo Nr. 6: Saint-Médard-d’Excideuil, France
043

“I believe
that beauty
is a basic
service.”

theaster gates

annelies
verbeke
interview & photos fleur pierets

The press called your latest book, Thirty Days,
socially relevant. Is it?
That’s a tough one because I don’t like to be put
into a box. For me, Thirty Days is just a continuation
of everything I’ve written before. I’m working on
an oeuvre, which I started in 2003, and hopefully
will be able to build up till the end of my days. So
for me it’s a clear evolution with its own variations
and perspectives, yet they all existed deep inside of
me. It did bother me a bit that the book got a very
defined market. “What type of book is it?”, “how
should we label it?”, are fundamental questions in
the literary world nowadays. They say Thirty Days
is about the refugee problem, yet that doesn’t quite
cover its content. For me it’s about being a good
person in a world that doesn’t promote goodness.
That’s the essential theme. I always write about
what comes my way and the topic of racism and
refugees came into view. That’s why I write about
them, not because I necessarily needed to write a
social critique.
You once said that as a writer you have to write
good books, not criticize.
I used to say that as a writer you don’t have to think in
terms of social obligation but my opinion on that has
changed a bit over the years. Nowadays it doesn’t
bother me anymore to use social media or my
column in the paper to promote what’s dear to me.
For example, foreign writers that nobody’s heard of.
We get so little input about European literature that
I’m always on a quest to bring suppressed genres and
languages to the surface. Did you know that 80% of
the books in our Dutch language area are translated
from English - a language that almost everybody
can read? And only 3% of the books in the American
market are translated from other languages? All
languages? Just to give you an idea of its dominance
in the field and that we are not always aware of how
much we are controlled in the choices that we make.
What makes you sit down and write every time?
I think I have to call it an urge. From a young age I
was very certain that I would become a writer.
The first literary prize I ever received was from
a Dutch foundation called ‘Roeping’ (Dutch for
Vocation. Ref.), a very Christian word yet I think it
kind of fits. I do believe that there is something like
a calling. I think that certain jobs like being a teacher
or a nurse can only be managed if you have that kind
of calling, which is the same for writers. Luckily I got
the confirmation that it was the right thing to do.
Did you need that confirmation in order to keep
going?
I think that I needed some kind of permission, yes.
And of course you have to be a megalomaniac in
order to be a writer because let’s be honest, who
needs another one?
How do you feel after you’ve finished a book?
After every book there’s the need for time until
something else comes bubbling up. I’m always
empty when I’ve finished another novel, which is
pretty freaky because you never know if it will come
back.
Currently you’re writing short stories again.
Yes. And I love it. Each of my short story collections
have only one theme, which makes me feel free and
happy, and able to look at that one theme from 15
different angles. Whereas in a novel I have to follow
the path that I have chosen, be more consequent in
a certain train of thought for about a year and a half
or two years. A novel asks for a larger consistency
whereas a short story is much more playful and
offers me another approach. Let’s say it makes me
happier.
You’ve been a published author for over 13 years
now. Do you still love what you are doing?
When you’re a writer, there’s a constant repetition
of events. You finish a book, it gets published, you
have to defend it, talk about it, and then you have to
start all over again. For the first time it started to feel
like a prison after I finished Thirty Days. Don’t get
me wrong, I’m very grateful and there is still nothing
more liberating than the feeling I have after a great
day of writing. There is nothing in the professional
field that can replace that. So obviously I’m not
going to quit. Yet all of a sudden I saw a glimpse
of the dark side. What kind of fate gives you the
highest freedom and equally keeps you in prison? I’ll
probably get over it, but you need a lot of energy to
keep up with the ever-repeating chain of events and I
kind of lacked that amount of verve. I was exhausted
when I finished that book, but unfortunately that’s
the precise moment when the whole circus is about
to begin. When I think of myself being in my 70’s or
80’s, I don’t know if I will still have the energy to go
048

049

‘The absurd is
omnipresent.
Just think about
war, or placing a
gnome figurine
in your garden,
just because your
neighbors are
doing it.’
through all that again. Sometimes I would like to find
something in which I can disappear. At least for a
few years. An obvious question now would be; ‘why
don’t you just write and not get published?’ But the
duality of it all is that a book is not finished before
it’s been read. I keep on traversing between a huge
gratitude and oppression. Maybe it’s just because I
recently became 40. However great my life is, there
are still moments when I think ‘is this it?’
Can you imagine doing something else?
I do have those romantic and foolish fantasies about
being a hairdresser or a masseuse. Sometimes I
would love to have a profession where I can touch
people - in a non-erotic manner. That fantasy keeps
coming back.
That sounds like an eagerness to please.
I don’t know, maybe I should call it ‘relating’ instead
of ‘pleasing’. People wouldn’t even have to thank
me for a job well done; it’s really about making them
happy.
What keeps your mind flexible?
I know it sounds contradictory, but I’ve set out a few
rules in order to keep a flexible mind. Every year I
want to read 52 novels. There has to be at least one
book from every continent - with the exception of
Antarctica and Arctica because there’s not much
writing going on there - and spread over three
centuries at least. It probably sounds more epic
than it actually is because it’s quite doable. It allows
me to read the writers that you do not stumble
upon easily.
Are there certain things that have determined
your growth?
Notwithstanding certain life events that mess you
up, I think that the older you get, the more life
experience you gain and the more you read, the
more you grow. I’m lucky to be able to pour the sad
things from my life into literature. Which is often
a salvation. Being able to transform your pain into
something creative is a huge victory. And that’s a
gift. Imagine being a bookkeeper, or a shop owner,
how do they handle that?
What do you like to write about most?
If I would have to point out a common theme running
through my little oeuvre, it’s ‘what is reality?’, which
most of the time is based upon assumptions. In the
beginning of my career a lot of reviews spoke about
my fascination for madness. Yet I’m not necessarily
interested in madness, but I am intrigued by what
someone with a psychoses experiences as reality.
Even better, you don’t have to go as far as having
a neurosis to see that every one of us has another
reality. It’s both interesting, funny and tragic how
hard people are trying to fit into that. The absurd
is omnipresent. Just think about war, or placing a
gnome figurine in your garden, just because your
neighbors are doing it. There are so many delusions
wherein people are finding themselves or basing
their identity on. It’s very innocent when it’s about
gnomes, but it can also escalate into resistance
towards refugees. If you agree that a certain
branche of our population doesn’t have any human
rights, just because your neighbor is thinking the
same thing. Absurdity dwells in the constant threat
of chaos. On the one hand you have the efforts to
keep it all on the right track and on the other there’s
pure escalation. That’s where absurdism comes
from. And it’s constantly around us.
051

Is that what you are doing as a writer? Creating a
new reality?
That’s exactly how it feels, but it’s more like filling
something in instead of creating.
Céline once said that the stories that we write are
the invisible castles above our heads which we have
to reconstruct on paper, stone by stone. I still find
that a great image. When I’m writing I can always
feel when it’s good and when it’s not. And not only
when it comes to style, rhythm or grammar, but also
if it’s right for the story. Which is weird, because this
possibly implies that the story is already there. That
there’s an ideal, which you merely mirror.
Is it self-portraiture?
I consider myself a parade of people where one
takes the lead until the next one takes over.
In my novels my narrators were the ones leading in
a certain period of time whereas in my short stories,
I’m looking at who else is in that parade.
What is literature about?
It’s about insight and all kinds of thoughts and
feelings. You have to confront the things that
happen to you. It’s an introspection without you
being behind the wheels. For me it’s also very
double; part of me is writing freely while the other
part is controlling the quality of what I write as a
reader. And I can tell you it’s not a reader who is
easy to please. But then it gets read and criticized
and that’s even worse because it’s always colored
by someone’s prejudice. I don’t care about someone
saying or writing that they don’t like the book for
reasons of taste, but I do care if someone offers
criticism coming from resentment, or if someone is
holding a grudge or just doesn’t like female writers.
That said, fortunately there are many literary
critiques in which I’m completely understood, which
offers a sense of ease.
Let’s talk about the female writers.
I have a lot to say about female writers. When I
made my first appearance as a 27-year-old writer I
had more of the aura of a rabbit in headlights than of
someone with an impressive personality. I can give
numerous examples of how I’ve been patronized
or intellectually underrated. In the beginning of my
career people actually asked me what it was like to
be a woman while my male colleagues were never
asked that question. But I’m not only talking about
‘I have those
romantic and
foolish fantasies
about being a
hairdresser or a
masseuse.’
men, because for me, feminism is not the opposite
of men being against women. Some women are also
biased and judgmental about women. And what I
definitely cannot stand is being treated that way by
people whom I find less intelligent than I am.
Anyhow, I do think people read very judgmentally.
People start off with tons of assumptions that they
then actually read in the book. I know it’s impossible,
but sometimes I wish that things like awards would
happen anonymously. A lot of women are still
not nominated so I wonder if this would make a
difference. A female critic once accused me that
I was afraid of being a woman. I found that pretty
surreal. You might read something neutral in my
work, yet that’s who I am. I don’t have to pretend,
do I? The same for men. When a book is from a
neutral position, I often find it more interesting - this
compared to some Hemingway-ish kind of writing
because how many times can one go fishing and
hunting? Let’s say there’s still a lot to do on the
gender front.
www.anneliesverbeke.com
052

053

le jardin
d’hélys

057

060

Le Jardin d’Hélys
Artspace by founders / transformers: Moniqa Ray-Bool, Alain Piot Di Massimo,
Claude Piot & LO-renzo
Saint-Médard-d’Excideuil, France
www.lejardindhelys-oeuvre.fr
067

“I’ve been
absolutely
terrified every
moment of my
life - and I’ve
never let it
keep me from
doing a single
thing I wanted
to do.”

georgia o’keeffe

lebogang
mokgoko
interview fleur pierets
photos keletso nkabiti & lunga ntila

virgin
xtravaganzah
interview fleur pierets
071

You are both a photographer and a designer. Do you
need to mix things up in order to be creative?
I think I represent a new wave of creators. We’ve been
exposed to the internet, grew up listening to Kanye West,
so obviously we’re going to adapt that whole theory of
multidiscipline as opposed to doing only one thing. On
paper I studied design and photography but I both feel like
and would like to be considered as an artist in his purest
form. If I’m inspired I want to share it, no matter in which
form it comes.
Does the place where you live influence your work?
Very much. I live in Pretoria, a city in Gauteng which is
in the province of Johannesburg, South Africa. For me
it’s home and I believe that you are where you are from.
That’s your reference. The way you greet someone, the
way you interact with people, that’s what you know,
where you grew up. So it does influence me in a huge way.
I like traveling and meeting new people but for me it’s very
important to return to a familiar setting. Where I come
from there’s a sense of humility, nobody’s really trying
to fit in. I understand that I am the way I am because I’ve
never felt that particular need to fit in. I come from a place
where no matter what you are doing, people are very
accepting. I don’t want to say that the place where you are
from determines everything, but it’s definitely important
in the way I perceive certain things.
Your first fashion collection is a success. How does that
make you feel?
The Blossom collection was more an idea than anything
else and now I’m having a Skype chat with someone
from Spain, how weird is that? Two or three months ago
I probably wouldn’t have had the answers I’m giving
you now. Since Blossom I can see how it’s possible that
something you might think of as being very small can
be very big to the next person. Now I understand how
important it is to do what you want to do, to make ideas
come to life. In school I felt like I wasn’t expressing enough
of what I had - it’s still school so you have to adapt to
certain aesthetics - but Blossom was a cry-out to what I
really had in me.
How about becoming an established fashion designer?
It’s definitely in the planning, but right now it’s more
important for me to connect with people on a street level
rather than create for something like Fashion Week. I have
my whole life to do things like that. For now I have too
much energy and I want to try things out without being
limited. I’m only slowly starting to create my own world
and the more I learn and do, the more my perspective
changes on how I see things and experience people.
Does your work need an explanation?
What’s important for me is for people to have their own
interpretations before I tell them what it is.
We rely too much on getting answers instead of searching
for them. Whatever I do, I really find it important for
someone to find meaning in it. So even if you don’t like
it, at least express why you don’t. My approach towards
everything in general is that I don’t like - for lack of a better
word - boxing things in. Great art shouldn’t be restricted,
it’s not a practical way of thinking.
Art creates dialogue, in one form or another. What kind
of dialogue would you like to start?
In terms of the art-world I’m still a baby, yet I think I’ll get
better as I grow in my craft.
I like to work on people’s senses, giving them the complete
experience. I don’t necessarily have to talk to you, but
as you consume what it is that I’ve made, I want you to
have that dialogue with yourself through all your different
senses and channels. You need to look at something and
see what it means, need to hear something to understand
the vibe, the tone or the feeling. Maybe it makes you
remember something as you touch it. So before having a
dialogue with a person about whatever it is that you want
to talk about, it’s very important to first have that dialogue
with yourself. To understand what it means to you.
Are you influenced by certain trends?
I think it’s important to look at trends in order to
understand what’s happening now, so your work can be
relevant and relatable to that specific time. That said, I
don’t let trends dictate to me since a lot of what I do is
mostly based on feeling. I like my work to be timeless so
that it can have a long lifespan as opposed to a short shelf
life.
Earlier you were talking about a new African ‘wave’. Can
you elaborate?
At the risk of sounding cheesy; what’s currently happening
in Africa is very, very beautiful. The topics amongst
the creators is not us referring to what we are seeing in
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074

075

Europe or the United States anymore. We are really trying
to tell our own story and we’re trying to show people that
you do not necessarily have to have an African print or an
African design in order to create African art. This ‘wave’ -
for lack of a better word - is also very proud being African.
Before we were just looking at what other people were
doing, trying to act and sound like them. Yet now we are
really owning our own culture, our own heritage and we
are bringing this into a new perspective. Design-wise we
are now more or less doing what people in the first world
countries are doing, but at the same time it has an African
aesthetic without needing the African imagery. And I love
that. This new wave is coming into that transitional period
of acceptance and I think it will probably get to a point
where it can only get bigger and better.
Do you have a spiritual practice?
I meditate. For me it’s very important to be spiritual. It’s
not about a higher being, but about being in touch with
yourself. Understanding who you are as a person and what
it is that you want and need. When I meditate I reflect and
I become thankful for who I am and the chances that are
being given to me. I don’t take that for granted.
‘Design-wise we are
now more or less
doing what people
in the first world
countries are doing,
but at the same time
it has an African
aesthetic without
needing the African
imagery.’
Who are you inspired by?
That’s a tricky question because even when I was young
and we had to choose a role model, I could never pinpoint
someone. A lot of people have certain qualities which I
would like to apply to myself, so if I really have to answer
your question, I’d have to say that I get more inspired by
ideas than by people. What is truly inspiring, is being an
African right now. That’s what drives and fuels me. Being
from a country stained by apartheid, where my parents
never had the opportunities that I have now, makes me
feel like I have to prove something. The fact that I’m not
only able to do what I do, but also get the chances to do it,
inspires me more than anything. I can’t express it enough.
What gets me out of bed in the morning is being young,
being African and the feeling that I have something to say.
www.instagram.com/mynameislebo
076

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