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WITNESSES BROWNE, Mr Miles, Senior Lawyer, Victoria Legal Aid ................................................................................... 1 BUTT, Mr Matthew, Executive Officer, National Welfare Rights Network ...................................................... 1 CHARKER, Dr Jill, Deputy Secretary, Program Design, Department of Human Services ........................... 10 GUTHRIE, Ms Fiona, Chief Executive Officer, Financial Counselling Australia ............................................. 1 HALBERT, Ms Cath, Group Manager, Payments Policy Group, Department of Social Services ................ 10 HEHIR, Mr Grant, Auditor-General, Australian National Audit Office ......................................................... 10 JAFFIT, Mr Ivan Leonard (Len), Program Manager, Commonwealth Entitlements Program, Civil Justice Access and Equity, Victoria Legal Aid ........................................................................................ 1 KAIROUZ, Ms Edel, Executive Director, Performance Audit Services Group, Australian National Audit Office ........................................................................................................................................ 10 KELLY, Ms Michelle, Group Executive Director, Performance Audit Services, Australian National Audit Office ........................................................................................................................................ 10 NEWMARCH, Ms Eileen Anne, Financial Counsellor, Care Financial Counselling Service .......................... 1 PITT, Ms Janine, General Manager, Participation and Disability, Department of Human Services ............ 10 TOZE, Ms Cathy, Director, Disability Program, Department of Human Services ......................................... 10 WILSON, Ms Serena, Deputy Secretary, Department of Social Services ........................................................ 10
Wednesday, 30 November 2016 JOINT Page 1 BROWNE, Mr Miles, Senior Lawyer, Victoria Legal Aid BUTT, Mr Matthew, Executive Officer, National Welfare Rights Network GUTHRIE, Ms Fiona, Chief Executive Officer, Financial Counselling Australia JAFFIT, Mr Ivan Leonard (Len), Program Manager, Commonwealth Entitlements Program, Civil Justice Access and Equity, Victoria Legal Aid NEWMARCH, Ms Eileen Anne, Financial Counsellor, Care Financial Counselling Service Committee met at 08:35 CHAIR (Senator Smith): I declare open this public hearing of the Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Audit for its inquiry into Commonwealth risk management based on the Auditor-General's report Qualifying for the disability support pension. The committee resolved to conduct the inquiry on 13 October 2016. Welcome and thank you for giving evidence today. Although the committee does not require you to give evidence under oath, you should understand that this hearing is a formal proceeding of the Commonwealth parliament. Giving false or misleading evidence is a serious matter and may be regarded as contempt of parliament. I also remind all witnesses that in giving evidence to the committee they are protected by parliamentary privilege. It is unlawful for anyone to threaten or disadvantage a witness on account of evidence given to a committee and such action may be regarded as a contempt of parliament. This hearing is public and is being recorded by Hansard. It is also being broadcast live. Given the private and personal nature of the cases involved with the program, I would ask witnesses to please refrain from making comments that may lead to a person being identified to protect the privacy of individuals. I now invite brief opening statements from each organisation represented here today and the committee will then proceed to questions. Mr Jaffit: Thank you for reading our submission and providing the opportunity to appear today. In 2015-16, Victoria Legal Aid provided legal advice on Centrelink matters on more than 2,000occasions, frequently in relation to one of the two levels of external review. In addition, we represent eligible clients in their appeals against Centrelink decisions. The vast majority of work that VLA undertake in this space is in relation to disability support rejections or cancellations. At the outset, I would like to take this opportunity to highlight the following areas of concern. Firstly, in our view, better information being given to applicants and better decision making by Centrelink at an earlier stage would reduce unnecessary hardship to people experiencing disability and would reduce costs to the community. The high set-aside rates for decisions at all stages of appeals set out in the ANAO report demonstrate that, but for better information and an opportunity to provide relevant medical evidence, many people who should be receiving disability pension are missing out on the correct entitlements for significant periods of time. Better information at an earlier stage also assists applicants to decide to not pursue unnecessary and unmeritorious claims or appeals. For our clients, most appeals to the last stage of the AAT appeal process are settled prior to hearing and the settlements for our clients are generally favourable, largely due to the opportunity to provide relevant medical evidence. The impacts on our clients of delays in being granted disability pension or being placed back on Newstart following an incorrect cancellation are significant given the differences in rates. Those caught up in this process often find it very distressing. The delays increase risks of eviction and homelessness, and cause additional challenges for those unable to work and trying to meet expenses related to their disability such as medical treatment, transport costs, particularly travel in regional areas. We also have specific concerns about the operation of the program of support requirements. While we see the benefit of programs to assist people into the workforce who have permanent disabilities, there are some people that will not be able to be assisted by a program of support due to their permanent impairments. We understand that this is the reason for the exemptions that are allowed under the determination. However, there are some issues with this mechanism that mean that on many occasions these provisions act either as an unreasonable barrier or as something that only has the effect of significantly delaying a person who is unable to support themselves through work being able to access the disability pension. We see many clients where the medical evidence leads to a conclusion that their permanent conditions would mean that a program of support either would not enable them to improve their work capacity or would prohibit them from engaging in a program of support. However, as the relevant exemptions cannot apply unless a person is engaged in the program of support as at or prior to the date of claim these important, sensible and logical exemptions simply cannot be considered. PUBLIC ACCOUNTS AND AUDIT COMMITTEE
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