Romulus 2018

where our sense of how far back history goes is
different. It always used to be said that Britain
knew very little of the history of the Republic
of Ireland, and that the Republic of Ireland
knew rather too much. That produced some of
the differences. And yet in my career, during
the last 35 years, the relationship between
the Republic of Ireland and the UK has been
utterly transformed. So I tend to be optimistic
about the direction. Yet it’s really important as a
country like the UK never to brush history and
the colonial era under the carpet, because it does
still have a major impact upon the way relations
are seen. If you think about our relationship
with Kenya, you cannot separate that from the
historical experience.
You mentioned Nigeria and Ghana, and that
what happened is irrelevant to our current
relationship with these countries, but there are
also other countries that feel more resentment.
I would say that there’s much more complexity
in those relationships. For example, if one looks
at Zimbabwe, there’s still an awful lot of history
that affects that relationship. I think that clearly
Argentina is a country where we moved into
a significant new relationship, but you can’t
pretend that we haven’t had complex relations
quite recently. Ironically, if you go even further
back, Argentina is probably the country in Latin
America that Britain is closest to and most like,
in some ways, but that more modern experience
is there. For the last year and a half I have been
working on a lot of Caribbean countries, and
relations with Western Union countries are still
very much linked to the colonial experiences. I
would also say that for a lot of these countries,
particularly in the Caribbean, it was Britain’s
decision to join the European Union that caused
one of the biggest ruptures in our relationship,
rather than things that happened even further
back. History can be 1973-history.
It was said that one of the positive things of
Brexit was that there is going to be a stronger
connection with countries of the Common Wealth
and the Caribbean.
It was certainly one of the lines given by
the Brexiteers that this would open up new
opportunities, and it definitely does; but if
you look at Britain’s trade with the rest of the
European Union, it’s about 40-50% of our
trade, whilst Britain’s trade with the whole of
the Common Wealth is about 8-10%, so they
are very different kind of relationships.
There is a border conflict that stems directly
from the colonial past. Recently it has flared up
again. I’m talking about the tension between
Israel and Palestine. Do you think that Britain’s
involvement has been sufficient (historically and
present) in addressing the conflict?
There are many people who would say that
Britain’s involvement was too large in certain
areas! All I can say is that I think our position
at the moment, the British position -on the case
of the two-state solution, and that there should
be no resolution of the status of Jerusalem until
the broader issues are settled- that seems to be
absolutely the right kind of position, because it
reflects the broad consensus in the region across
the key parties. The former British foreign
secretary, Peter Carrington, once said to me
that there are a number of issues in the world
that aren’t going to be resolved this year or next
year; they feel utterly intractable, but a time will
come when the stars will align, and they’ll be
open to change. And you need to be ready and
prepared for that moment. It has always felt to
me like the Middle East peace process between
Israel-Palestine is one of those that none of us
can see a way through, this year or this decade.
But there will come a time, and we need to keep
on being ready for that time. I don’t know when
that time will come, but it will be absolutely
critical that we take hold of it when it comes.
What does being prepared mean?
Being prepared means investing in knowledge
so that you keep on being in touch with the key
players. We should stay close to the Palestinian
key players, and the Israeli authorities. And we
should remain influential in the US. Those are
the ways you remain active. Keep on having
seminars and policy-making discussions to
think of ways you could work it through.
Another one of those tense, long-term conflicts
is the one between India and Pakistan, which
at the moment feels like a relationship that is
always blocked, but there will come a moment
when the stars will align and you need to be
invested in both of those countries and their
opinion-formers to be able to move.
It’s interesting to think about this alignment of
stars in a conflict that has lasted not only since the
colonial past, but also since biblical times.
Well, I think there are definitely academics
who quite rightly say that you never solve an
international relations problem. You allow the
friction to exist in peace until it blows up again.
If you look at the experience of the last 300
years, there are very few problems that have
been solved forever. But life is not about solving
things forever, it is about creating the conditions
for peace so ordinary life can get on while you
deal decently and in a civilized manner with
disagreement.
The great part about a college environment like
ours is that there are people from Palestine, from
Mexico, from everywhere in the world, and
each person will bring their own interests and
concerns. You can listen to their concerns and
allow them to speak freely. Give them the space
to express their views, but also bring opposing
views together in this safe environment, which
is a college. People should be allowed to say
things that they probably couldn’t say on the TV
or the radio. I do think that there’s a problem at
the moment where there are lots of things we
are not allowed to say in public because you’re
criticized for saying them. And we need to get
better at creating a space for people to express
strong views. In some ways, the Brexit debate
did show that if people are not allowed to say
certain things, pressure builds up inside the
system, which will erupt in unexpected ways.
What is interesting is that the alt-right
movement was saying the same thing. It is true
that there is a call from many interest groups in
this society for more freedom of speech, complains
about democracy creating its own auto censor...
There is an interesting quote by the philosopher
Kierkegaard, who talks about the freedom of
thought, which is more important than the
freedom of speech. We need at least for our own
heads to be able to think freely, even if we can’t
always speak freely. A friend of mine in Pakistan
said they have freedom of speech, but what they
don’t have, is freedom from not being arrested
immediately after exercising their freedom of
speech.
To anchor the issue more in a context closer
to home: What is your stand on Brexit as the
President of Wolfson, and what would you say
to the people who are going to be affected by yet
another border?
This is quite difficult for me to answer, because
I’m coming from a background of working
35 years for the government. My practice has
always been not to say anything that disagrees
with the government. This is producing a real
challenge for our beliefs and democracy. There
is no doubt that British people voted for Brexit
and if one believes in democracy, then one has
the obligation to introduce Brexit. That is where
I end up coming from, but I believe profoundly
in democracy. The question is when to give
people a choice, but if you do give them one,
then you have to go with that. There are many
different versions of this, though. One would be
of a United Kingdom that is inward-looking and
small-minded, and there is one where Britain
comes through as a country with the same
character, outward-looking, international, and
embracing the world. For me the key task is to
make sure that Britain is this outward-looking,
international country that it traditionally has
been. This is the biggest task for all of us who
are British here in the UK. For me, this is one of
the great attractions of coming to Wolfson, as it
seems to be a very good place to make sure that
we stay highly open and international.
To stay on the topic of Brexit, it seems to be about
a conservative vote rather than the testimony
of an outwards-looking view of the world. It
was more like a step back from an international
Britain towards one that wants to be more
inward-looking.
I am not sure I agree; we don’t have the data.
There are loud voices that argue for the smallminded
Britain, but I know many people who
voted Brexit because they wanted more freedom
and disliked bureaucracy, and others who didn’t
8 9