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da me getyviT Tqven...<br />
mkiTxvels mkiTxvels yovel yovel nomerSi nomerSi vTavazobT<br />
vTavazobT<br />
intervius intervius qarTvel qarTvel winaswarmetyvelTan.<br />
winaswarmetyvelTan.<br />
igi igi isaubrebs isaubrebs mocemuli mocemuli momentisTvis<br />
momentisTvis<br />
yvelaze yvelaze metad metad aqtualur aqtualur Temebze, Temebze, Tumca<br />
Tumca<br />
qalbatoni qalbatoni lelas lelas pasuxebi pasuxebi yovelTvis<br />
yovelTvis<br />
efuZne fuZne fuZneba fuZne ba ramdenime ramdenime wlis wlis win win Caweril<br />
Caweril<br />
winaswarmetyvelebebs.<br />
winaswarmetyvelebebs.<br />
(interviu Cawerilia 2009 wlis 21 ivniss)<br />
_ qalbatono lela, mamisonis uReltexilze<br />
momxdarma incindentma mTeli<br />
saqarTvelo aaforiaqa. vrceldeba informacia,<br />
rom uReltexils axla srulad<br />
akontroleben rusuli diversiuli<br />
da osuri separatistuli jgufebi, rom<br />
saqarTvelos sazRvarma kidev ufro<br />
SigniT gadmoiwia. amboben imasac, rom<br />
amas xeli Tavad qarTuli xelisuflebis<br />
qmedebam (zogi versiiT, absoluturad<br />
Segnebulad Cadenilma) Seuwyo.<br />
_ ki, rusebi marTlac akontroleben<br />
iqaurobas, magram, vxedav, ara ise, rogorc<br />
amas opozicia amtkicebs.<br />
marTalia, rusebs saqarTvelo, TavianTi<br />
WkuiT, rkalSi hyavT momwyvdeuli da yvelanairad<br />
cdiloben, provokaciaze wamoikidon<br />
qarTvelebi, isev Cagvaban omis avantiuraSi,<br />
magram unda gavawbilo kremli:<br />
maT am gamoxdomebs saqarTvelo<br />
ar ayveba!<br />
Tumca amerika da evropa protests mainc<br />
gamoxataven rusebis mimarT, rac kremls<br />
aranairad ar awyobs.<br />
saerTod ki, am Temebze laparaks jobs,<br />
opoziciamac da xelisuflebamac meti imuSavon,<br />
sazRvargareTis qveynebis gasagonad<br />
da dasanaxad farTomasStabiani politikuri<br />
omi gaaCaRon, ganuwyvetliv awodon informacia<br />
msoflios yvelaferze, rasac rusebi<br />
saqarTveloSi sCadian da gaamaxvilebinon<br />
yuradReba yvela maT qmedebaze. zustad aseTi<br />
Temebi aRizianebs evropasa da amerikas.<br />
rac Seexeba qarTul teritoriebs,<br />
romelzec rusi ukanonod dgas,<br />
maT Soris raWaSic da danarCen<br />
saqarTveloSic, droebiTaa mtris<br />
kontrolqveS, droebiT! rusebi<br />
gaiqcevian saqarTvelodan, imitom,<br />
rom male sakuTari sazRvrebi<br />
gauxdebaT dasacavi.<br />
_ rusul mediaSi sul ufro xSirad<br />
Cndeba publikaciebi myvirala sa-<br />
TaurebiT, rom saakaSvili axali omisTvis<br />
emzadeba. imavdroulad cnobili xdeba,<br />
rom ruseTi 26 ivniss Crdilo kavkasiis<br />
olqis masStabiT samxedro swavlebas<br />
`kavkasia 2009~ iwyebs. eqspertebi<br />
_ qarTveli Tu ucxoeli, varaudoben,<br />
rom kremli amiT axali omis safuZvels<br />
qmnis.<br />
_ esec erT-erTi gamovlineba kremlis<br />
provokaciuli qmedebebisa. Tavad ruseTma kargad<br />
icis, rom omis wamowyeba misTvis dauSvebelia,<br />
radgan amas msoflio aRaraviTar SemTxvevaSi<br />
aRar apatiebs. amitom axdens samxedro<br />
Zalebis demonstrirebas iseTi patara qveynebis<br />
winaSe, rogoricaa saqarTvelo, aRizianebs<br />
maT, xelovnurad Zabavs situacias da<br />
cdilobs, moTminebis Zafi gagviwyviton _<br />
sapasuxo nabiji gadagvadgmevinon da omSi<br />
CagviTrion, Tanac ise, rom Tavad mama abramis<br />
batknebad warmoCindnen. gamoricxuli ar<br />
aris, Cven sazRvrebze erTi-ori bombic Camoagdon.<br />
ar CamougdiaT Tu ra? plius amas,<br />
ruseTs surs daafiqsiros, rom is aris isev<br />
mmarTveli kavkasiisa da ara evropa-amerika.<br />
magram, kidev vimeoreb: saqarTvelo provokaciaze<br />
arc erT SemTxvevaSi ar wamoegeba!<br />
ZaRlis Tavi iciT, sadaa damarxuli? roca<br />
Sav zRvaze amerikuli samxedro gemi Cadga,<br />
aman kremli imdenad SeaSfoTa, rom mTeli<br />
rusuli Zalebi momarTa kavkasiisa da SavizRvispireTisken.<br />
SeSfoTebis mizezi ki hqonda<br />
ruseTis mTavrobas. isini mixvdnen, ufro<br />
sworad, zustad icodnen, rom amerikis mTavrobis<br />
es nabiji xumroba saqme ar iyo.<br />
es gaxldaT gamoucxadebeli<br />
politikuri brZola, romlis arsic<br />
SemdegSi mdgomareobda: `Tuki Sen,<br />
ruseTo, anadgureb saqarTvelos<br />
bolomde, maSin mec gesvri!~<br />
_ axla mTeli saqarTvelo marTlac<br />
gulisfancqaliT elis haidi taliavinis<br />
komisiis daskvnas imis Taobaze, vin<br />
daiwyo omi 2008 wlis agvistoSi _<br />
saqarTvelom Tu ruseTma. rogor daskvnas<br />
dadebs komisia?<br />
_ saqarTvelos bolomde ar daadana-<br />
Sauleben omis dawyebaSi, imitom, rom sama-<br />
Cablo Cveni teritoriaa da iq ZiriTadad,<br />
qarTvelebi cxovrobdnen da cxovroben.<br />
_ arseboben adamianebi, romlebic erTgvari<br />
aRtkinebiT elodebian taliavinis<br />
komisiisgan iseT daskvnas, romelic mixeil<br />
saakaSvils daabralebs omis dawyebas.<br />
_ es aris samarcxvino da yovlad miuRebeli<br />
pozicia.<br />
saakaSvili, gvinda Tu ara, dRes<br />
saqarTvelos prezidentia da<br />
komisiis uaryofiTi daskvna<br />
niSnavs ara saakaSvilis, aramed<br />
Cveni samSoblos dadanaSaulebas!<br />
es kargad unda gaiazros yvelam. visac<br />
aseTi verdiqtis gamotana gaaxarebs, is qveynis<br />
moRalatea.<br />
axla saWiroa, rom sazogadoebis<br />
azri |Seikras erT muStad<br />
da es muSti moeqnios ruseTs,<br />
Torem is, rasac kremli<br />
saqarTvelos upirebs,<br />
dRevandel gaWirvebas<br />
dagaviwyebT da warsuls (anu<br />
dRevandelobas) mSvenier<br />
cxovrebad mogaCvenebT!<br />
muSti ki aucileblad moxvdeba ruseTs.<br />
amas mravali welia vwinaswarmetyveleb da<br />
amas veraviTari Zala ver Secvlis. anu saqarTvelos<br />
ruseTi ver mougebs, ruseTi saqarTvelos<br />
ver daamarcxebs da ver gaaqrobs!<br />
kremli pasuxs miiRebs yvela im borotebaze,<br />
rasac mravali welia axorcielebs<br />
saqarTvelos mimarT. ra, ggoniaT, msofliom<br />
ar icis, rogor, vin da ra Zalebma gamodevnes<br />
samasi aTasi qarTveli afxazeTidan da sama-<br />
Cablodan? an rogor aWridnen Tavebs Cem<br />
qarTvelebs es kaciWamiebi da rogor Tama-<br />
Sobdnen fexburTs? an rogor gadmodiodnen<br />
Wuberis uxeltexilze yelamde TovlSi fex-<br />
SiSveli adamianebi?<br />
yvelam gaixseneT warsuli,<br />
Tanac arcTu Soreuli warsuli<br />
da ise gaakeTeT daskvna imis<br />
Taobaze, realurad vin da rodis<br />
daiwyo omi!<br />
_ qalbatono lela, oriode kviris<br />
win gaJRerda orpalatiani parlamentis<br />
Seqmnis idea, rasac mixeil saakaSvili<br />
gamoexmaura da ganacxada, rom am ideas<br />
ganxilvis perspeqtiva aqvs. ideam azrTa<br />
sxvadasxvaoba gamoiwvia. zogs miaCnia,<br />
rom orpalatiani parlamenti mxolod<br />
im qveynebs aqvT, romelTa struqturac<br />
regionalizmzea agebuli, xolo saqarTvelos<br />
mxareebad dayofis gegma, sxva<br />
araferia, Tu ara mtris gegma.<br />
_ tyuilad nu inerviulebs am sakiTxze<br />
nuravin, imitom, rom axdeba is, rasac didi<br />
xania vwinaswarmetyveleb: saqarTveloSi<br />
mmarTvelobis forma iqneba zustad iseTi,<br />
rogoric israelSia. am cota xnis win ki, 8<br />
ivniss davamate: parlamenti bolos mainc<br />
erTpalatiani iqneba!<br />
_ qalbatono lela, cnobili gaxda,<br />
rom saqarTveloSi Camosaxlebis msurvel<br />
Turq-mesxTa gancxadebebis ganxilvis<br />
vada 1 ivliss iwureba. irkveva,<br />
rom istoriul samSobloSi dasaxlebis<br />
survili sakmaod bevr adamians aqvs,<br />
magram saqarTvelos mTavroba maT xels<br />
ar uwyobs, ar exmareba.<br />
_ visac rogor unda, ise miiRos, magram<br />
es swori midgomaa sakiTxisadmi.<br />
me jer kidev 1992 wlis 18 dekembers<br />
viwinaswarmetyvele, rom<br />
`Turqi-mesxebis sakiTxi mwvaved dadgeba,<br />
magram araferi gamouvaT. saqarTvelom Wkua<br />
iswavla. isini ganlagdebian CrdiloeT kavkasiaSi~.<br />
Semdegi Canaweri 1996 wlis 15 ivniss<br />
gavakeTe:<br />
`Turqi-mesxebi unda ganlagdnen CrdiloeT<br />
kavkasiaSi; saqarTveloSi erTi procentic<br />
ki ar iqneba~;<br />
mere 2005 wlis 5 aprils:<br />
`Turqi mesxebi saqarTveloSi fexs ver<br />
moikideben. ase vxedavdi 1992 wels da ase<br />
vxedav dResac. vxedav mxolod monaTlul<br />
qarTvel mesxebs. es erTaderTi gza iqneba<br />
maTTvis saqarTveloSi cxovrebisa: mxolod<br />
qristianad monaTluli mesxi!~<br />
bolos ki 2007 wlis 12 maiss viwinaswarmetyvele:<br />
`Turqi mesxebis Semosaxlebas qarTveli<br />
Turqebis Semosaxleba jobs, ormagi moqalaqis<br />
statusiT. es didi dasayrdeni Zala<br />
iqneba saqarTvelosTvis da ase ifiqrebs<br />
mTeli saqarTvelo~.<br />
_ qalbatono lela, Tqveni<br />
winaswarmetyvelebebi qarTul opoziciasTan<br />
dakavSirebiT, zedmiwevniT zustad<br />
asrulda: gaerTianeba daiSala. vrceldeba<br />
informacia, rom opoziciaSi axali gadajgufebebi<br />
moxdeba da isini moqmedebis<br />
axal gegmaze gadavlen. moutans ki Sedegs<br />
es nabijebi arsebul opoziciur speqtrs?<br />
_ es araviTar Sedegs ar moutans am<br />
opozicias. ramdenjerac gaerTiandnen, imdenjer<br />
daiyvnen da kvlavac daiSlebian. realur<br />
Sedegebs saqarTvelos mxolod is<br />
mecnierTa partia moutans, romelsac 1994<br />
wlidan vwinaswarmetyveleb.<br />
me Zalian kargad mesmis, rom<br />
zogierT opozicioners<br />
guliT unda, sikeTe<br />
moutanos Tavis xalxs da qveyanas,<br />
magram, ra vqna, rom<br />
verc gaerTianebul opozicias<br />
vxedav da verc maT Sedegian<br />
nabijebs?<br />
amas xom me ar vwyvet da ar<br />
vadgen?<br />
_ bolo dros, gansakuTrebiT, mas<br />
Semdeg, rac amerikis mTavrobis administraciam<br />
cnobili gancxadeba gaakeTa<br />
saqarTvelos opoziciisadmi, sul ufro<br />
xSirad mxvdeba xalxi, romlebic nanoben,<br />
saqarTvelos natoSi Sesvlas rom dau-<br />
Wires mxari referendumze.<br />
_ amis pasuxad pirdapir Casvi monakveTi<br />
2008 wlis 22 ianvris Canaweridan, romel-<br />
Sic es viTarebac aris nawinaswarmetyvelebi<br />
da isic, ra moyveba am yvelafers. ai isic:<br />
`bevri ram Seicvleba, iqneba didi siurprizebi!<br />
politika icvleba mTlianad. qarTveli<br />
xalxi xmamaRla iyvirebs uaryofas<br />
amerikelebTan, rom yvelaferSi isini arian<br />
damnaSaveni, rom es amerikelebis dadgmuli<br />
scenarebia! saqarTvelosgan aseTi zurg-<br />
Seqceva Zalian cud imijs uqmnis maT kavkasiaSi<br />
da ara mxolod kavkasiaSi. esec Zalian<br />
bevr rames cvlis. natoSi Sesvla aravis<br />
awyobs. amis gagonebac ki ar surs amerikis<br />
mTavrobas. isini xvdebian, ufro sworad,<br />
Zalian kargad ician, sad aris kulminacia,<br />
amitom asoTxmoci gradusiT Seabruneben<br />
mTavari redaqtori: irma gelaSvili<br />
gazeTi registrirebulia vake-saburTalos raionul sagadasaxado inspeqciaSi.<br />
gazeTSi da vebgverdze gamoyenebuli masalebis da fotoebis gadabeWdva-gamoqveyneba<br />
redaqciis Tanxmobis gareSe akrZalulia. saavtoro uflebebi daculia.<br />
www.lelakakulia.ge / el-fosta: lelakakulia@yahoo.com<br />
(gagrZeleba gv. 11)<br />
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