Question 1 What did Marx mean with his formu - University of Utah

U of Utah Econ 5080 2005fa 51
[1572] Hans: New Homework Assignments. This is one of the homework questions assigned
over the Thanksgiving weekend and the Monday after. Answers are accepted starting
right now until Tuesday morning, November 29, at 3 am. Here is the list of all the homework
questions assigned until Tuesday morning 3 am:
(81), (117), (129), (185), 375, 377, 590, 601
Those in parentheses are not in the Annotations, but you can see their text in [1571] and
my next two emails. All these are regular homework question, not extra credit assignments.
I am adding these assignments to those in the syllabus so that class participants who have
not yet submitted enough homework answers can catch up. As with all other assignments,
you can only get credit for one graded submission in this list of questions. I will announce
another assignment for the week December 5-8.
Next Message by Hans is [1573].
[1644] Sparrow: Labor-time is measured as a social quantity because the value is based
on the time that is socially necessary to produce the item. This is in spite of the fact that
society may not be certain on the amount of time spent laboring on this particular item.
The society will still know the amount of labor-time required to produce the commodity,
regardless of the actual labor-time spent by the producer.
For example, the socially necessary labor-time for a watch will be the same regardless if it
is made by hand or by using an assembly line with machinery. The individual who made the
watch by hand will not be rewarded for his extra efforts because society will only recognize
the socially necessary labor-time to produce the watch.
Final Grading Note by Hans: Your selection of questions to answer, throughout the Semester, was heavily
weighted towards chapter One issues.
Message [1644] referenced by [1681] and [1810]. Next Message by Sparrow is [1711].
[1681] McDugall: (graded C+) Labor-time is the amount of time, on average, it takes
for anyone in society to produce one item. It is measured as a social quantity because it
is the amount of time socially necessary to produce an item. Labor-time is independent of
the technology / methodology used to produce the item. Any extra effort into producing the
item will not be rewarded, the user does not see the amount of time the producer puts into
the object. Society only recognizes the amount necessary to produce an item, they will only
pay for the labor-time.
Hans: The socially necessary labor-time certainly depends on technology. I think you mean to say as in [1644]
that someone who uses an outdated production method will not be rewarded for this. Indeed I do not see anything
in your answer that was not said in [1644].
Next Message by McDugall is [1690].
[1707] Phatteus: Labor-time can be the measure of value or of a “social” quantity, because
it is based on the amount of time socially necessary to produce an item. When a
commodity is placed in the market and its value is determined, it is determined by society.
Most everyone in society, in one way or another has used human labor power to produce
something. Since this is the base for which values are determined, and due to everyone
having at one time or another used human labor power to produce something (it may not be
to produce a commodity but could be a “commodity” at home, for example), the “average”
necessary labor time can be judged by society. Thus it does not matter to society whether
the producer has spent more or less time producing.
52 2005fa Econ 5080 U of Utah
Hans: You see the problem: how does society know the labor-time hidden away in private factories? But your
answer is unconvincing.
Message [1707] referenced by [1810]. Next Message by Phatteus is [1734].
[1735] Picard: graded C+ As all the other posts have noted, labor-time can be a measure
of value in a social quantity. This is so because it is based on the socially necessary time
to produce a commodity. Wether a producer chooses to spend more time than is socially
necessary does not affect the socially necessary time. If a computer is socially accepted as
taking one hour to build and a man builds one in 6 hours it does not increase the value of
the computer he built because society will not pay more than what it knows to be acceptable
(one hour).
Hans: When you go shopping, some things definitely look like good deals and others don’t. But I doubt that the
consumers make this comparison based on labor-time. How many dollars is one hour anyway?
Next Message by Picard is [1837].
[1810] Hans: Actions speak louder than words. Sparrow answered half of the question
in [1644]: value is not determined by the individual’s labor time but by the socially necessary
labor-time. All other submissions just repeated this. But how does society know what the
average labor time is to produce a certain article? Phatteus in [1707] ventured the thought
that everybody in society has worked, therefore they know how much labor goes into the
things. Such an argument leaves me utterly unconvinced.
The answer lies not in what people know but what people do. Assume someone has
found a way to make widgets in half the labor-time needed by others, and this producer is
not telling anyone, this new production method is a big secret.
Does this mean that for all practical purposes this new production method does not exist
and the value of widgets is still the old level? No, because of the following. If this widget
innovator is profit seeking, then it is in his interest to exploit the market price of widgets
which is very favorable for him and produce more widgets than previously. This will drive
the price of the widgets down. Other producers will wonder: how can this firm sell widgets
at a price which is below my cost? Eventually they will figure out what is going on.
This is the mechanism at work which I described in [966] with the metaphor that society
is a big photo camera which constructs an image of the hidden labor contents in the exchange
relations between the commodities.
Message [1810] referenced by [2008fa:360]. Next Message by Hans is [1831].
Question 83 is 96 in 2007SP, 98 in 2008SP, 96 in 2008fa, and 103 in 2010fa:
Question 83 The value of the product is determined by the socially necessary labor-time.
What are the implications of this for a capitalist supervising his employees?
[98] Geo: graded A The implications for determining the value of the product by the socially
necessary labor-time for a capitalist supervisor is: that if the processes required to
assemble or obtain the good are particularly time-consuming then the value of the product
will be high. But costs are high as well. If the value of the product is high to society and
the capitalist supervisor is aware of this, then he can work to exploit his workers to either
be more efficient with their efforts such that he can gain a higher return, or he can require
them to work longer but simply pay them lower wages. This allows the capitalist superviser