Question 1 What did Marx mean with his formu - University of Utah

U of Utah Econ 5080 2005fa 55
Message [1871] referenced by [2007SP:456]. First Message by Bubba is [142].
[1917] ADHH: graded A– The value of a commodity does not increase when produced by
a slow laborer because value is calculated using the socially necessary labor time required
to produce that commodity. There is no difference between the value of the same commodity
made by a slower laborer or a more efficient one. The commodities will both end up
with the same value. According to Citrus [1996ut:177-4], the market values of all similar
commodities are the same.
Society as a whole decides to keep the value of the output below the time actually used.
Both the buyers and the sellers have accepted the exchanges that occur in their markets as
fair. Enforcement occurs when the buyer pays the same price for a desk that took 12 hours
to be assembled by a slow laborer as he does for a similar desk that took only 7 hours to be
assembled by a more efficient laborer.
Hans: Thank you for digging out the excellent Citrus reference.
How did you get the idea that society decides to keep the value of the output below the time actually used? Is it
because the workers don’t get paid a full equivalent of the value they produce? These too-low wages do not prevent
the capitalists from charging full price when they sell their products.
Citrus’s answer to “who decides” is: we all decide because we allow markets to run their course.
Final Grading Note by Hans: Very good contributions to the discussion.
Message [1917] referenced by [1922], [2007SP:76], [2007SP:456], and [2007SP:529]. First Message by ADHH is
[99].
[1922] Tink: graded B+ The value of a commodity does not increase if it is made by a slow
or inept laborer because the value of a commodity is determined by the socially necessary
labor time, as ADHH described in [1917]. The socially necessary time is an average, thus
the product of a slow or inept laborer does not increase in value, just as the product of a
very fast or efficient laborer does not decrease. As more and more laborers produce, the
discrepencies of their labor time and efficiency evens out, and the “socially necessary labor
time” is determined.
ADHH also described how it is society who decides the value of the output, which is
kept below the time actually used. When members of society engage in an exchange, they
are validating the values that have been assigned to the commodity and thus the labor input
behind it.
Enforcement is the result of society as well, as participants in the exchange will pay the
same amount for the same commodity, regardless of the production time of the individual
laborer who made it. This keeps the value of output at the mercy of the social average.
Hans: Good and thoughtful reformulation of ADHH.
First Message by Tink is [150].
[1933] Mullin: Think no further than the lesson that our parents have tried to teach us for
years: if you want to find who is accountable or responsible for a decision look no further
than the mirror. What I mean by this is that the value of the commodity exchanged in the
market is ultimately determined by society or more personally put, us. How does this pertain
to the question, I will try to explain.
Who is content with the professor that in the first day of class announces that he/she will
be grading on a curve? Generally it isn’t the above average student who consistently scores
high on each assignment and exam. Rather, it is the rest of the class who find themselves
56 2005fa Econ 5080 U of Utah
in the middle of the pack and in particular those that are usually straggling behind. It is for
this reason that society will not allow the value of a commodity to be lower as a result of a
slow or inept laborer. We, as a generality, prefer to be compared as an average rather than
individually and this is how the value of said commodity is also determined.
As a result the extreme discrepancies in the amount of time it takes to produce a commodity,
whether that be extremely slow or fast, becomes negligble as it doesn’t skew the
average great enough to affect the value. Due to this relation each commodity is assigned a
value which is figured upon the amount of input that is expected. This expectation is derived
from the socially necessary labor time.
Rather than enforcement I believe a more accurate term would be reinforcement that is
the responsibility of the participants of the market. When there is no reaction to an exchange
value of a commodity regardless of the production time, possibly because society is usually
unaware of these figures, there is no adjustment to the socially necessary labor time which
determines the value and the value is not affected. As a society we generally like to be
compared to the average, and it is acceptable to be only average, and as such the value of a
commodity is not increased due to a slow or inept worker whose production doesn’t affect
the average enough to make a difference.
Hans: Your answer is an excellent example of voluntarism: everything, even market outcomes, is explained by the
wills and intentions of individuals.
First Message by Mullin is [809].
[1935] Jimmie: graded B The value of a commodity is not determined by the actual labortime
of the producer. In fact, it is determined by the socially necessary labor time needed to
produce the commodity. This means that the value of the commodity is determined by the
amount of time it takes the average producer of the commodity to produce it. So, the value
is really kept at its level by society who buy at the average price from the average producer.
Deviations from this value are pushed either towards the median value or are forced out of
production.
Hans: If society pays a higher price than that corresponding to an average labor content, then more suppliers will
enter the market, until the price falls to the average.
Message [1935] referenced by [1948]. First Message by Jimmie is [131].
[1944] TriPod: According to Marx a labor-power that produces twice as fast as the average
also produces twice the value. Therefore the slow or inept worker can not produce more
value of a commodity. Every worker is not identical they all have different labor power and
are not equal. I think it is up to the economy in which the innovations are made to determine
the actual time needed for production. I would agree with Jimmie that people would be
forced out of production if they are slower or inept. Every person must meet a minimum
standard. Everyone needs to be an average.
Message [1944] referenced by [1948]. Next Message by TriPod is [1945].
[1948] COMMI: Marx gave an example of what happens to slow laborers on page 96 of
the annotations. Power looms were introduced to England and the given amount of labor
time was reduced by one half. The hand-loom weavers continued producing at the same
rate, but this only equaled half of the electric powered weavers and the value fell by one
half. Hans goes on to say that the “hand weavers simply cannot coexist”. As Tripod [1944]