Interview of GENERAL JAMES L. JONES, USMC - The Stimson Center

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we can’t create jobs in Los Angeles, in Columbus, Ohio, on a massive scale, I think we see that around us. Why would we think we could do it in Egypt? JONES: I’m sorry, I couldn’t hear that. BLOOMFIELD: If we can’t create jobs in Ohio or Los Angeles, how can we do it in Egypt? Can we test whether the Marshall Plan is applicable to the Middle East before we decide that that’s the solution? JONES: Well, I think the question is one that cuts across the domestic policies that have resulted in a certain situation that we find ourselves in, that hopefully is correctable. That’s an internal problem that is very complex but obviously has to be resolved, and probably the next election is going to hinge on that particular question. On the other hand, the United States, I think, wants to continue—and Americans want the United States to continue—to be a nation of significant leadership and values and inspiration for the developing part of the world. What I’m suggesting is that, while we can’t do it alone and we can’t do everything, we can—as the world’s largest economy—shape and mold and bring into a new way of doing things, countries that previously, we never would have thought of, like Brazil, like India, like maybe even China. It seems to me that there has to be a convergence of the haves and the havenots if we’re to really triumph over the hopelessness that exists, and to try to move the world in a positive direction. We can’t do it alone, and we can’t be everywhere, but in those instances … and I cited Egypt as an example, but there are others, countries that are developing countries that need that kind of engagement … that the United States can play a dominant role. That’s not to say that we shouldn’t worry about jobs in Ohio. I think we should worry about jobs in Ohio, and I think you’re going to see that being probably the number one issue in this campaign. BLOOMFIELD: If I may, that rose well above the tactical level answer. [Laughter.] ATTENDEE (Gareth Porter): Thank you. General Jones, thank you for giving us the opportunity to interact with someone who’s been at the center of the policymaking process. I’d like to ask you— BLOOMFIELD: Could you identify yourself, please? ATTENDEE (Gareth Porter): Gareth Porter, Inter Press Service. BLOOMFIELD: Thank you.
ATTENDEE (Gareth Porter): You were quoted by Bob Woodward, who obviously you spent a lot of time talking to, over a period of months, saying that Afghanistan is a clash of civilizations, among other things, and that the worst possible thing for the United States would be to allow the militants to win in Afghanistan, because then militants all over the Middle East and beyond would believe that they could defeat the United States, with terrible consequences. Now, obviously this is the official position of the US military, it’s been articulated over the months. But I would like to ask you whether you agree that there is an alternative view of this question of the relationship between US military presence in Afghanistan and the impact that the outcome would have on Islamic populations across the Middle East (that alternative being that, in fact, what is far more important than how effective the US military is in a particular conflict, is whether the United States is occupying Islamic lands)? So I’d like to ask if you agree that there is that alternative view, was that thoroughly discussed in the policy‐making process in the Obama Administration before those critical decisions were made? JONES: The one thing that I think we did do well is—and we touched on this earlier in our conversation—the need to engage, as much as you can in different parts of the world, but on a regional aspect of things. When we started out in Afghanistan, it seems to me that we dealt with Afghanistan as Afghanistan, and Pakistan as Pakistan, and India as India. But we tried to basically take a strategic approach, and it’s turned out to be essentially correct, unfortunately, that you can’t really have a discussion about Afghanistan without talking about Pakistan. And frankly, of the two, the most worrisome one, to me, right now would be Pakistan. Afghanistan is, in my view, on the path of by 2014 of becoming whatever it can become between now and then. And it’s going to have to be, probably good enough, because not just the United States but the international community has basically said, in some way, that we can’t want for the Afghans that which they don’t want for themselves. We can’t want it worse than they do. So, between now and 2014, we’ve made some serious progress in the overall security environment in the country, particularly in the real troubled areas of the East and the South, we’ve tried to do our best with regard to catapulting economic programs, we’ve discovered potential vast resources in terms of copper and other minerals that exist in Afghanistan that could be very, very helpful for the development of the Afghan economy. And we have pressed the government of President Karzai on governance, the rule of law, corruption, ad nauseam. At the end of the day—and the end of the day is somewhere around 2014 where we will have a major pivot to a new relationship where the Afghans are going to have to step up and as President Karzai said at the London conference over a year
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Page 3 and 4: BLOOMFIELD: It has changed in size,
Page 5 and 6: I don’t think, given the pace and
Page 7 and 8: would you still like to see happen?
Page 9 and 10: I think Egypt is extremely importan
Page 11 and 12: We have to analyze our own situatio
Page 13 and 14: JONES: Well, there’s no doubt in
Page 15 and 16: eing in these rather long engagemen
Page 17: BLOOMFIELD: Leaders get bloodier an

Interview of GENERAL JAMES L. JONES, USMC - The Stimson Center

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