RECRUITMENT

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GWSRR “The corporation needs to take the role of ensuring that all their employees are trained.” - Hardeep Girn. WWW.WSBA.COM.AU Continued from page 27 thing – they’re genuine, authentic... I get more concerned when I’ve had an interview and I feel ‘this’, see ‘that’ – and then I get on a Facebook and see a different story. That’s when I go: Whoa. What’s going on here? We’ve got to put lots of different pieces in the puzzle to tell this story better. Again, no right or wrong. All different. For me, consistency. Michael Walls: And, in your business, it’s a skill to read social media posts, to actually look at that and get an assessment. Is that a specialisation? Scott Henshaw: I think that’s the science of recruitment. That’s what we’d like to say that, over years and years, that gut feel, that intuition of when you meet somebody, shake somebody’s hand, look them in the eye. You know. Recruiters are generally speaking particular types of characters. Michael Walls: What character is that? Scott Henshaw: Oh, you know, they’re all the good things. But, you know, the science of recruitment will be a little bit of that gut feel. But again part of my job is … I get a gut feel when I meet every candidate, but that’s not good enough. I’ve got to go away, put that biased gut feel aside and either confirm or deny that my gut feel was right or wrong. And we do that through a really robust process. Michael Walls: That’s intuition and then you’ve got a quantitative. Scott Henshaw: Absolutely. Some of us are better at intuitive stuff than others. So, I think it’s just the breadth and robustness and depth, to ensure that that story is just consistent. And that’s about as much as you can do to de-risk a decision. Tom Graham: Can you list three things, people applying for jobs would answer to I’m not happy with the job. Can you find me another job? – is there three reasons you could say which really come to the fore, most of the time? Scott Henshaw: So, again, if you’re an active job seeker, the story’s pretty typical. I’ve been made redundant. I need a job. I want a job. Can you help me? More and more about what we do to find these people is about the networks in which we operate, social media profiles that we build and how we connect and manage relationships with people, the circles in which we frequent to do our best to be connected to those people who we can proactively engage to create opportunities. Alison Wood: Part of the challenge for us in our role – and obviously we want graduates – it’s a KPI for us, apart from anything else – but, that’s why we’re here – to have graduates who move into employment, is not with recruiters. It’s with industries that generally don’t use recruiters, or they’re for job roles which don’t. And you don’t get anything like that sophistication of what you’ve just described in terms of matching people to jobs. And we constantly have people – I’m thinking someone who was at a customer experience thing we ran not long ago, an incredibly talented woman that had come out of the IT industry, made redundant, with incredible skills. And she’d been, you know, running a team of 100. But she was really a very experienced manager. And she retrained. She wanted to do retraining in the travel industry and she couldn’t get a foot in the door with any travel companies. And you just have to look at her skills in IT and the fact that the whole travel industry is online. I mean you just could see the synergies there. But a lot of issues are around the areas that don’t use recruitment companies and they don’t have the expertise on seeing how those skills are transferable. Jim Taggart: Well, I’m just trying – if you read today’s paper, if you read reports or enquiries, they talk about skill development. And I somewhat get confused because I really don’t get my teeth around what they mean when they say “skill development”. Is it a given that they can do Microsoft, that they can do Excel, that they can do Pages or whatever. What are the three skills that you would say are critical, as a generalisation, for an employee to have? Hardeep Girn: As an employee, I would certainly say…there’s a phrase in the US – if you do take on anybody, you’ve got to have them drink the Koolade. And that phrase came out of a cult that existed in the States where everyone who was part of that cult, believed everything that was told to them – that there was going to be a spaceship coming from the other side of the moon. But, from joining a corporation, you have to understand that, for example as an auditor for KPMG, there’s certain brand values that you have to align with. And you have to share those same kind of values as an employee. And it starts off with the interview. Michael Walls: That’s implicit with the process though, Hardeep, isn’t it? Hardeep Girn: I think it’s not reinforced by the line manager or the HR manager. Certainly not in any interviews that I’ve been at. Scott Henshaw: No. And I don’t think it is either. But we’ll probably get onto the employee part. And we talked about the brief of what a client wants, I can tell you candidates have got their long list of “what I wants” as well. And they’re not jumping ship or they’re not going anywhere unless, to a large extent, those conversations are had. And they are ticking those boxes. It’s a risk for them, too. Jim Taggart: How important is remuneration – because Tom’s area of expertise is in that whole retirement and remuneration package. How important specifically is money in that equation? Scott Henshaw: Good question. I mean I’ve just done a little mental survey of a decade in recruitment. And what I reckon the three most commonly wanted things would be: Alison Wood. communication skills – which probably falls a little bit under that customer service/interpersonal. That’s always been No: 1. I don’t know if this is a skill. Ability to work with others – this team player thing which I think often is a euphemism for just: Can they fit this place and can they get along with everybody else. And third – intelligence. And I think this ties to the willingness and the capability to learn. When you unpack it, it’s the appetite to learn and the ability to grasp new concepts and conflict resolve and all those sorts of things. I think they’d be the three. Alison Wood: Randstad’s done quite a lot of research on that. We work with them as well. And they actually did a survey for us as an employer. But they also have done Australian-wide surveys and worldwide surveys. And it does vary from country to country. But in Australia, remuneration’s not No: 1. It’s certainly not No: 1 in TAFE NSW. It’s No: 3 or No: 4. So, there are other things that are more important than remuneration. Jim Taggart: That’s interesting. David, I want to shift to you in that because you deal with medium sized to large players in the market. And also, your organisation is a global organisation. Where does money specifically fit in your recruitment? David Pring: I think in terms of recruitment, if someone feels they’re undervalued, it will be very high on the list. If they feel they’re undervalued by their existing employer, it will be very high on the list. But generally, people are joining an organisation for a longer term view than what they’re going to be paid tomorrow. Hardeep Girn: Is that around professional and personal development opportunities as well? David Pring: For us, it’s around career opportunity – if people will move for a career opportunity, where they believe and understand the story. And quite often, you know, we’ll have senior people who move for not very much change in remuneration. In fact, we’ve had a couple who will come in for less on the basis that they have got to where they are, but they want to do something else. And they go: I’m prepared to come back to accelerate. So, you know, unless someone feels they’re highly undervalued where they are, there’s a lot of other things that are critical. Alison Wood: Certainly in the public sector – not the private sector – the No: 1 is often around making a difference or sense of community service – certainly for women more than men, that’s the case. And certainly for women in leadership who regularly take what is seen as a regression and move sideways or downwards, they’ll often do that because of the role and around a sense of why they come to work every day, which is often not about remuneration. It’s about making a difference and changing people’s lives through learning, as we say in TAFE. So, there will be a lot of motivations. But, I suspect in the private sector, remuneration is probably higher up on the list than it would be in some other areas. David Pring: But I think remuneration is two things. It’s extrinsic in terms of the reward you get for what you do. And it’s also intrinsic – where the reward is the role, and the difference and all of those things that you mentioned. And we often think of remuneration solely as being the pay cheque or the annual salary. But there’s a lot more that people get. And quite often, the ability to do a good job and be valued is very highly regarded. Jim Taggart: Nicole I’m going to go to you. And how do you feel in relation to those comments. Nicole Karagiannis: Agree with all of that. So, tying all of that back into your question around what are the three skills, that goes back to there’s that customer component – the service – customer service skills. Another skill is my ability to learn, and learning new things. That’s a skill that I need so as in open to learning. That’s an important skill. And then, dealing with ambiguity – going back to David’s earlier comments around dealing with change and ambiguity is also a skill that, you know, our employees need – going back to your comments around problem solving and dealing with change or being open – even championing change. Going back to the remuneration conversation, there is an article out there that was published by Human Synergistics, a consulting organisation. They do lots of work in the leadership space. That article is about the five fundamentals of human motivation. One of them is: I’m learning something new. So fundamentally, we all – most of us – that’s what the work is saying – are motivated by learning new things. Another one is: I’m valued. And a third one is: I’m supported. So, if I reflect on my own personal motivators, it is that learning new things and I’m adding value at the same time. Jim Taggart: Thank you for that. I read a really good line. I just want to say this in the context of what people have been saying. And it says: Learning has no end date. And it stays with me all the time, when learning or studying or doing something – no matter what it is – that learning has no end date. Alison Wood: Definitely. So, our average age is around 30 now. So, most people would identify TAFE as being a place where post school leavers go with, you know, apprentices. Only 10% of what we do is with traditional trades. 90% is in other areas. Nearly 25% of people who are enrolled with us now have Degrees. So, they’re career changers. So, you know, our market segments – when we segment the market – one of our largest markets is career changers and career progressers. Michael Walls. Continued on page 29 28 WESTERN SYDNEY BUSINESS ACCESS SEPTEMBER 2015
GWSRR “The work environment doesn’t have to be an office environment as well.” - Tom Graham. WWW.WSBA.COM.AU Continued from page 28 And just coming back to that learning, we’re learning the organisations that we work most closely with that are willing to invest in their workforce really are identified as high performing organisations, and they take that lifelong learning and they take that learning – the importance of growing and developing and changing and learning – back to us to a point where we can assist them. Jim Taggart: Ok we are doing a little exercise now, can each of you think or write down three critical skills that you consider important to you and then we’ll go around the room and share. Hardeep, we’ll start with you. Hardeep Girn: So, I’ll say the 3Cs, that are around the Mastering Business Introductions course that we’ve got with TAFE, Confidence, Capability and Conversation. I think those skills are significantly lacking in any area of business whether you’re talking to internal customers or you’re talking to external customers. I think customer service as a whole requires quite a bit more of an upgrade. I think that the conversations that most industries have is very much: Well, these are the products and services that I have. I’m an auditor. This is what I do. Jim Taggart: Great. David? David Pring: I think it’s change, openmindedness and communication. Jim Taggart: OK. Interesting.Tom? Tom Graham: Well I’m not sure you’d call it a skill. I’ve always said: attitude before aptitude. That’s been one of my expressions. How do you put that into an actual skill, you know? Interpersonal skills is another, which you touched on. And then analytical skills. It doesn’t matter what the job is. It can be auditing, accounting orHR. Just to be able to analyse an issue or problem and find a solution. Jim Taggart: Thanks Tom. Alison? Alison Wood: Very similar. So, technical skills relates back to capability. So that’s about actually having the technical skills to do the job. And the interpersonal skills relates back to the emotional intelligence, and it comes back to the customer experience too – because all of that really is around thinking about the customer at the centre of the journey. And then, the last one was critical thinking, problem solving or, you know, how to – innovation. Again, it’s your analytical skill. So, there’s quite a lot of similarity between what we’re saying. Jim Taggart: That’s interesting. Thanks Alison. Nicole? Nicole Karagiannis: I’ve changed mine in the last 10 seconds. They’re not very similar. So, to me, active listening. So, that bit around: seek first to understand before being understood. So, it’s all really under the banner of communication and conversation. The second one is taking feedback. And really, from an HR profession point of view, it’s often you know Jim Taggart. WESTERN SYDNEY BUSINESS ACCESS SEPTEMBER 2015 Hardeep Girn and Jim Taggart. people like me are the middle man going: You are not a good leader, or, you are not a good... You know. Having those really painful, difficult conversations. If we empowered our leaders and employees to have them themselves, how good would that be? And the third one is back to my bit around learning. So, having the appetite to learn – not walking in saying: I know it all already. So that appetite’s very important. Jim Taggart: Thanks Nicole. Scott? Scott Henshaw: Good question. I mean I’ve just done a little mental survey of a decade in recruitment. And what I reckon the three most commonly wanted things would be: communication skills – which probably falls a little bit under that customer service/interpersonal. That’s always been No: 1. I don’t know if this is a skill. Ability to work with others – this team player thing which I think often is a euphemism for just: Can they fit this place and can they get along with everybody else. And third – intelligence. People always ask me it. And I think this ties to the willingness and the capability to learn. When you unpack it, it’s the appetite to learn and the ability to grasp new concepts and conflict resolve and all those sorts of things. I think they’d be the three. Jim Taggart: For me….interpersonal skills. One that’s critical is adaptability. Is it really important with regards to people. And the third one is team players – being part of a team is really critical for me. You don’t have to like the person, but you have to have the respect to say: Look, you don’t like me; I don’t like you; but we’ve got this job to do – or task. Getting the job done is critical. That’s what’s brought us together. And I’ve got to handle that the best way I can. I can either get caught up in that melee or move back. If I move back and do the task, I’m at least going to get some reward. Anyway, I didn’t want to go on. But that’s my three. Michael Walls: Ok so I’ve got critical or analytical thinking, which is the capacity to frame a problem or an issue, second would be communication and people skills and the third would be adaptability and cultural awareness; so, you’re aware where you fit into a culture and can adapt and still be successful. Jim Taggart: Ok I really now want to look at the whole area of skills and what’s happening out here. And I want to ask this question – and it’s a statement. Employers should pay for training and development of their staff. Yes? Alison Wood: What a loaded statement? Nicole Karagiannis: It depends on the applicability. But if I say to my manager: I want to do my Diploma in Fitness – becoming a personal trainer, and I’m in the HR profession – it depends on whether you’re thinking about something not relevant to my profession or to my organisation. I should pay for that myself. Whereas, if it’s something that’s going to add value to the organisation, and I need to put that case forward, then they should either cofund it or pay for the whole thing. That’s sort of how I see it. Tom Graham: Can I come back a step? Somebody is applying for a job – probably right down your track Nicole. They say: OK, I’m going to go for this job now. I think this looks good. But what are my career opportunities? How am I going to develop? What’s my next step? How do I get there? There must be a corporate plan in place which includes training of the individual moving into higher positions - a management training programme. Imagine some of these managers have not been trained about their responsibilities like how to handle staff and things of that nature. I mean there has to be a corporate vision and the Company should be paying for it. Hardeep Girn: I agree with that as well. The corporation needs to ensure employees are trained to the correct level to do their job. If they’re not capable of doing their job, then they are not best representing the products or services that they’re looking to sell. So, I think it comes down again to Nicole’s point – value. They have to be adding value. If they want to take a course in personal fitness, you can argue whether that’s going to add value to the organisation if they’re a healthy individual and know about first aid and various other aspects. But I think it has to be that 80% of typically what an employee wishes to do has to be related back to what is the core services and products that are sold by that organisation and how it can be applied to grow value for that organisation. David Pring: I think there needs to be a change in the mindset of employers. We talked before the break around: do employers know what they want. And I’m not sure how employers at the moment can know what they want from employees because their businesses are being disrupted and changed so much. And there’s so much change – you know, automation etc – that’s happening. And if a business is looking for its niche, its differentiator, for its ability to become globally competitive, I think it must take on a bigger responsibility, or recognise that there is an ongoing need for additional training as the business itself morphs and evolves. The right people and then adaptability and change in skills have got to become more and more important, I think. Scott Henshaw: I think back to your point earlier, the employee expectation is certainly that “the organisation I join trains me and invests in me”. I think we talked earlier about the key variables that candidates look at in making their decision around, you know, what employer they go with – and we talked about money and all sorts of things. But I think you guys nailed it – that the surveys that we’ve conducted and a lot of the survey stuff I read in and around our industry – professional development and training are the No: 1 things consistently around “what my organisation give me”. So, whether there’s a right or wrong to it, at the moment the way the market stands is employees have the expectation that “my employer will train me – and if they don’t, I’m going to go to an organisation that does”. Alison Wood: A lot of employers don’t, though. I mean there’s real variability amongst industries and how much they’re willing to take on that role. My view is that employers have the role of workforce capability and development. And a lot of that is on-the-job training as we were talking during the break. Continued on page 30 29
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RECRUITMENT

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