Question 1 What did Marx mean with his formu - University of Utah

U of Utah Econ 5080 2007fa 51
assembly line worker, time is consistent. An assembly line worker may experience more
discomfort and make more moves than the teacher, but does this mean they are producing
more? No, indeed it is simply the type of work which they are doing.
According to Marx, “labor is what determines the value of a product.” The higher amount
of labor time put into a commodity the higher the value will be. So, if a certain commodity is
produced with more discomfort by one laborer that another but in the same amount of time,
it should not have twice as much value but the same value because it took the two the same
amount of time to produce it.
Hans: Marx does not argue that labor should be measured using time, but he argues that the labor which creates
value is measured by time. Please re-read my [65]. Capital is not a blueprint for a better society!
Your in-class answer did not make this error but it talked about wages. There is a difference between the value
produced by a worker and the wages received by a worker. See my [29], [45], [49].
Message [197] referenced by [288] and [341]. Next Message by Karly is [198].
[217] Melanie: graded B Marx uses labor-time to measure labor because labor-time is the
only thing all the different kinds of labor have in common. It would be difficult to measure
labor using something such as “drops of sweat of the laborer”. In fact, some types of labor
may not involve sweat at all. The only measurable similarity found in all types of labor is,
thus, labor-time.
Hans [2002fa:25] quoted Marx who wrote in Contribution, 271:2/o: “variations in the
duration of labor are the only possible difference that can occur if the quality of labor is
assumed to be given.”
Hans: Your first few words “Marx uses labor-time to measure labor” start you on the wrong foot. Marx does not
decide how to best measure labor, but he is trying to find out how in a commodity society the quantity of value is
determined. His theory says that the labor that makes up value is measured by labor-time. The question asked you
to explain why it is labor-time and not some other measurement of labor.
Message [217] referenced by [252] and [626]. Next Message by Melanie is [218].
[229] Kalmerico: Measuring Exploitation. Labor is measured by labor time because
it is the one thing that all workers have in common, which in turn allows markets to set
all products equal. Measuring labor by drops of sweat would not necessarily be the most
accurate strategy because the differing physical make-up of each worker could cause some
to sweat profusely and others not at all. The same type of idea could be applied in regards to
a laborer’s discomfort. However, time is an unfortunate way to measure one’s labor because
it forces workers to be speedy and all alike in their production, which completely ruins
any chance of creativity or innovation occurring. It seems unlikely that someone randomly
decided to measure labor by time, but more likely that it is a spontaneous act of the market
and is the cause of much exploitation.
Hans: In the light of your last sentence this measuring should not be called a “strategy.”
Next Message by Kalmerico is [230].
[236] Harmon: Drops of sweat! Labor is measured in labor-time because it gives the
commodity its third value – the labor-value, or how much of a certain commodity is produced
in a given amount of time. If the value was measured by drops of sweat or amount of
discomfort the exchange rate would change, making it more profitable for the laborer and
higher priced for the buyer. Laborers must take pride in the commodities they are producing
and turn out a good product, but it is more profitable for the owner of the company to employ
laborers who turn out large amounts of good products in short amounts of time. Thus, the
52 2007fa Econ 5080 U of Utah
value of commodities (in this case) is measured by the amount of time it takes the laborer to
turn out that commodity, not his/her amount of sweat or discomfort.
Hans: We are not talking about it how the laborer gets paid, but how the market determines the quantity of value
of a commodity.
Next Message by Harmon is [363].
[252] Desk: Time being a critical factor. Time is the critical factor when Marx wishes to
discuss labor and labor value. Labor cannot be measured by the drops of sweat of a person
nor his discomfort because of time. I wish to use several examples showing the importance
of time. Time is something that everyone can relate to, no matter the situation no one can
avoid how time is essential in one’s life. Marx states that the measure of the value of things is
the duration of the labor on the average requisite, performed with the average amount of skill
and diligence, and in the normal industrial conditions at any given time. In this example we
will use the construction of a house. The builder pays the laborer for his labor-power at its
value, that is to say, by giving him the amount of money which, representing six hours labor,
permits him to build the house at a specific need; but as he thus obtains the free disposal
of this productive force for which he has paid, he acquires everything it produces during
the entire day. He will never pay the worker on the drops of sweat or the discomfort of the
worker for that reason. The employer has different methods of increasing his profits. The
first consists in multiplying the number of his workmen. The second method is to lengthen
the working day. The longer the laborer works beyond the necessary time which represents
his wages, the greater the profit he would have.
Hans: Your first sentence “time is the critical factor when Marx wishes to discuss labor and labor value” or your
fourth sentence “time is something that everyone can relate to” start you on the wrong foot. It is not Marx’s decision
or the employer’s decision to measure labor by time. Please look at my comment to [217] and my [65]. Some of
what you write seems to indicate that you are aware of this, other things are in contradiction with it.
Next Message by Desk is [254].
Question 90 is 57 in 1997WI, 57 in 1997sp, 63 in 1999SP, 65 in 2001fa, 66 in 2002fa, 68
in 2003fa, 78 in 2004fa, 77 in 2005fa, 90 in 2007SP, 92 in 2008SP, 90 in 2008fa, 93 in
2009fa, 97 in 2010fa, and 117 in 2011fa:
Question 90 Is it a character flaw to be lazy in an exploitive system?
[56] AJoseph: graded A weight 50% The Workers’ Slow Down. It depends on the
circumstances. One where it would not be, Marx’s quote in 129:2 alludes to an ideological
basis for the classic Workers’ Slow Down, where pretend laziness can help workers get a
larger share of the profit for the work that they do.
One may also think of chattel slaves injuring themselves or breaking tools on purpose, or
conscripted soldiers shooting themselves in the foot on the way to a battle at this point.
Hans: You started on the right foot, but much more can be said here. Perhaps those who are truly lazy are also
protesting, but in a self-punitive way? Perhaps they are opposed to capitalism but then blame themselves for it
rather than the system, just like the many gay people who are homophobic at the same time?
AJoseph: Thank you, yes, I suppose I took the examples to the extreme. Shortly after posting this regretted not
having read Marx’s son in law’s “The Right to Be Lazy,” to be able to cite it for more perspective a moderate form
of laziness.
Next Message by AJoseph is [686].
[60] ZACH: Lazy in an exploitive system? To paraphrase Marx on page 129:2, it might
seem that the lazier the worker the more the commodity would cost because it would take