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Friday, 17 February 2017 Senate Page 23<br />
CHAIR: only prohibits asking for opinions on matters of policy and does not preclude questions asking for<br />
explanations of policies or factual questions about how and when these things were adopted. In effect, the<br />
position of the Attorney-General about whether or not and how and when to intervene is, in this context, a policy<br />
of the government and we are asking technical questions about how and when that position was come to, so those<br />
questions stand.<br />
Senator IAN MACDONALD: Sorry, Chair, it is not a matter of government policy on when the Attorney-<br />
General decides to enter a court case or not. It has got nothing to do with government policy. The witnesses will<br />
give you the same answer as they have given 12 times already. All I am saying is that if this committee hearing is<br />
just going to keep asking the same questions and getting the same answers, we might as well all go and do<br />
something more productive.<br />
CHAIR: We are quite at liberty to do that, should we wish to. Senator Watt, we have got very limited time. I<br />
will just let you continue briefly. I have got some questions of my own.<br />
Senator WATT: We understand from a previous hearing of this committee that the ATO sought advice from<br />
either the department or the AGS on the question of intervening independently of the Commonwealth. That<br />
advice was sought between 22 and 24 February 2016. Do either of you remember receiving that request for<br />
advice? They have told us that it happened.<br />
Mr Faulkner: May I just say, once again, that I believe questions about precisely what is meant by advice and<br />
what is meant by the ATO when they said that, particularly what they had in mind, really are questions of fact that<br />
I believe can only safely be put to that person giving evidence as to precisely what they had in mind.<br />
Senator WATT: They have told us that this happened. I am asking whether either of you remember that<br />
request being made.<br />
Senator IAN MACDONALD: When was this? How long ago?<br />
Senator WATT: About a year.<br />
Senator IAN MACDONALD: You remember everything you said and did a year ago, Mr Faulker? I say that<br />
with all the irony I can manage. It would be improper if you cannot remember every single conversation—<br />
CHAIR: Senator Macdonald, you do not have the call. He certainly will not be able to give a clear answer if<br />
you keep putting more words between the question and his answer.<br />
Senator WATT: Why would the ATO have needed to request advice about intervening independently of the<br />
Commonwealth if the Commonwealth, via the Attorney-General, was not hesitating about intervening?<br />
Senator BACK: Oh, hang on. The Attorney-General is entitled to take advice from whatever range of sources<br />
he wants to.<br />
CHAIR: You are not the one answering.<br />
Senator IAN MACDONALD: It should go to the Attorney-General.<br />
Senator WATT: It is not about the Attorney-General.<br />
Senator BACK: I thought you were a lawyer.<br />
CHAIR: Let Mr Faulkner answer the question. Look, Mr Anderson has another commitment very shortly, but<br />
we cannot let him go if we keep having interruptions to our proceedings. Please put your question, Senator Watt.<br />
Senator WATT: The Attorney-General has told parliament that his first personal involvement, whatever that<br />
means, in this matter was on 3 March 2016. Mr Loughton, did you have any contact with the Attorney-General, or<br />
are you aware of any contact with the Attorney-General himself, about this matter prior to 3 March 2016?<br />
Mr Loughton: Again, it would be inappropriate for me to disclose any aspect of confidential communications<br />
between lawyers and clients.<br />
Senator WATT: I am not asking you what he said or what you said. It is entirely appropriate—<br />
Mr Loughton: Including—<br />
Senator WATT: With the greatest of respect, it is entirely appropriate for this committee to ask witnesses<br />
about contact that they had with ministers, when it occurred or who was there. I am not going to ask you what he<br />
said.<br />
CHAIR: Are you refusing to answer the question, Mr Loughton?<br />
Senator IAN MACDONALD: You have been told 15 times already, since I have been here, what the answer<br />
is. They will take it on notice—<br />
Senator WATT: I am not asking you the question.<br />
LEGAL AND CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS REFERENCES COMMITTEE