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Page 36 Senate Monday, 27 February 2017 because I know you have just taken some advice: 'Conflict of interest declarations relating to recruitment will now be managed by the selection panel chair in consultation with the delegate.' That does not seem consistent with conflicts of interest having to be declared and managed externally to the panel. Ms Croke: I have done several recruitments in the last six months. I might need to clarify that because recruitment have chased me for those conflicts and we have provided them. I will check that. Senator BERNARDI: You have just taken advice—I know you have taken advice, Ms Croke—when I specifically asked about whether conflicts of interest were declared and managed externally to the panel; and yet DPS advice, the most recent one that I have, says, 'Conflicts of interest relating to recruitment will now be managed by the selection panel chair.' Ms Croke: Yes. Senator BERNARDI: That seems to contradict the earlier process. Ms Croke: I will check that because, as I have just said, I have done numerous recruitments in the last six months. In each case where I have been the panel chair and have got the conflicts of interest, recruitment, as a routine, have sent those out to the committees and have been following up on that. Senator BERNARDI: So they are managed by the selection panel chair— Ms Croke: But recruitment follow that up. Let me take that on notice. Senator BERNARDI: in consultation with the delegate. That is what it says: 'And managed by the selection panel chair', which is you— Ms Croke: Yes. Senator BERNARDI: Even though this committee in 2011-12 said they should be declared and managed externally to the panel. Ms Croke: And the process for sending them back to recruitment. If there are any issues, that is where recruitment and the delegates in that area and above can look at any conflicts and raise it with the panel chair. We have had panels change where we have known there is a conflict. Senator BERNARDI: Ms Croke, 'managed externally to the panel' means something different to me than 'managed by the selection panel chair'. Ms Croke: Okay. Senator BERNARDI: Does it mean the same thing to you? Ms Croke: They do say different things, but what I am saying to you also is that recruitment are still playing an active role. Can I come back to you on that? Senator BERNARDI: That is great, but they are conflicting, are they not? Ms Croke: They are different things. Senator BERNARDI: They are different things. So it is not the same. Ms Croke: I accept that, Senator. Senator BERNARDI: Are you going to accept the advice that you received as well, which was saying it was pretty much the same? You understand why we get suspicious about everything we are told? Ms Croke: I can understand that, as you have read them, they are saying different things but, in practice, recruitment is following up on those declarations and dealing with any conflicts of interest. As I said, in a number of cases the composition of panels has been changed where there is a potential conflict. CHAIR: Senator Bernardi, do you have many more questions on this? Senator BERNARDI: Yes, I have a couple. It could be easy. If the answer is yes or no— CHAIR: I hope that it is because we are way over time and there are many other senators with the call. Senator BERNARDI: It will not be long. You know the standing orders. Do I have to repeat them to everybody again? CHAIR: No, you do not. Senator BERNARDI: I am happy to. CHAIR: Unless you want to disrupt Indigenous— Senator WONG: We can ask George Brandis to appear on another occasion. CHAIR: This is not productive. Senator Bernardi, please be as quick as you can. FINANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
Monday, 27 February 2017 Senate Page 37 Senator BERNARDI: What about the requirement that each panel has to include an independent member outside of DPS? Ms Croke: That was the one that I said we relaxed a little. Senator BERNARDI: You have relaxed that a little? Ms Croke: Yes. Senator BERNARDI: Relaxed means removal of a requirement for an independent panel member to be outside of DPS. Ms Croke: Because we were generally going to our parliamentary department colleagues it was becoming quite an impost on them in terms of time. I think the department had got to a point where we said we can do what other departments do, and that is, you have somebody outside the area that is directly involved as the independent person on that panel. That does not mean from time to time we do not get completely external members on panels; we do. Senator BERNARDI: When was the decision? These were recommendations of a committee and they were for a particular reason. Who made the decision just to say, 'Well, let's ignore those now, or let's ditch them,' or relax them as you so delightfully put it? Ms Croke: When we go through the process to put out a new policy in the HR space, we go through a consultation process, so it is developed within my team. We try to take account of all the sorts of issues that have been apparent to them in that particular policy space. It then goes through the consultative forum and, if we have not had a consultative forum meeting coming up—because it meets each quarter—we quite often put them out of session for consultation and we put them up on our portal for all staff to have input and comment. Then we take account of all those comments and then they are put to the secretary for approval. So we go through a very extensive consultation process around each policy. Senator BERNARDI: And it would go through extensive reviews in DPS to come up with some recommendations from this committee. We seem to be doing it again and again. Finally, Chair, on another topic: who deals with DPS's policy of laptops? Mr McKenzie: That would be me as Acting Chief Information Officer. Senator BERNARDI: Thank you, Mr McKenzie. What types of laptops are DPS staff allowed to have? Mr McKenzie: I believe there is a standard model. I will be seeking from my team the actual model number and brand. It depends on what the department of finance panel is at the time. We procure those laptops from the department of finance whole-of-government panel. So whatever is about available on that panel at the time is what we procure from based on the best read of the requirements at the time. Senator BERNARDI: If the Apple MacBook Pro part of the panel? Mr McKenzie: There would be a panel for the Apple MacBook Pro. It is not currently available through the parliamentarians' catalogue, but we do have a project at the moment, called the end-user computing project, and we are looking hopefully to make Apple Mac laptops available to parliamentarians. Senator BERNARDI: I was not actually inquiring about parliamentarians, I am actually inquiring about DPS executives. Is it on the panel for DPS employees? Mr McKenzie: There would be panels which we would procure from but then we also have a device allocation policy which determines what devices we make available to people within the parliament depending on their department. Senator BERNARDI: Have any senior DPS executives asked for an Apple MacBook Pro or some similar Apple device which was not standard as part of the panel? Mr McKenzie: I believe the Parliamentary Librarian, as a statutory officeholder, does have an Apple MacBook. Dr Heriot: I have an Apple MacBook, Senator. I was issued it on my request when I was acting secretary and I have not returned it as I am still using it. Senator BERNARDI: Is that supported by 2020? It is surprising, Dr Herriot. I do not know who has the Apple MacBook Pro. I just know that one was requested and it is not normally available. Are you the only one who has made that request? Dr Heriot: I know that I have made a request. Senator BERNARDI: You made a request, okay, fine. Mr McKenzie, has anyone else made that request? FINANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION LEGISLATION COMMITTEE
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