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#24 (208), 23-29.V, 2012 w.<br />
unda vizeimoT<br />
Tu ara 26 maisi?<br />
guria isea gaveranebul-ggapartaxebuli,<br />
rom gurulebi<br />
enamoswrebulad amboben, Cveni<br />
erTaderTi Semosavali (Semosasvleli)<br />
WiSkariao, magram es<br />
sulac ar niSnavs, rom Cveul<br />
tradicias RRalatoben da qqveynis<br />
politikuri warsuli da<br />
momavali aRRar ainteresebT.<br />
oriode dRRis win redaqqcia-<br />
Si erTi naRRdi patrioti guruli,<br />
zviad gamsaxurdias ideebis<br />
erTguli kaci Tamaz SaTiriSvili<br />
gvewvia da aseTi ram<br />
gviambo::<br />
_ im xanebSi, roca uzenaesi<br />
sabWo Camoyalibda da zviad gamsaxurdia<br />
prezidenti<br />
gaxda, TbilisSi xSirad<br />
Camovdiodi, davrekavdi<br />
kancelariaSi, momimzadebdnen<br />
saSvs da veswrebodi<br />
sxdomebs.<br />
erT dRes ganixiles<br />
sakiTxi arsebuli uqme<br />
dReebis gauqmebisa da<br />
tradiciulis aRdgenis<br />
Sesaxeb. me da sulganaTlebuli<br />
guram Sara-<br />
Ze gverdigverd vijeqiT<br />
darbazSi iarusebze.<br />
isic ar iyo deputati<br />
da rogorc me, isic<br />
stumris statusiT eswreboda<br />
uzenaesi sabWos<br />
sxdomebs.<br />
gamovida zviad gamsaxurdia,<br />
darbazi gaisusa.<br />
prezidentma saubari<br />
daiwyo uqme dReebis<br />
mniSvnelobaze, bolos<br />
aRniSna: saqarTveloSi<br />
Tavsmoxveuli,<br />
araerovnuli, aramarTlmadidebluridResaswaulebi<br />
bevria da Cvenc<br />
vzeimobT, aucilebelia maTi akrZalva<br />
da erovnuli, marTlmadidebluri<br />
dResaswaulebis dawesebao.<br />
daadgines, rom akrZaluliyo<br />
8 marti, 1-2 maisi, 9<br />
maisi, 7-8 noemberi da sazeimod<br />
da uqme dReebad darCeniliyo<br />
axali weli, romelsac daemata<br />
saxelmwifoebriobis, da damoukideblobis<br />
aRdgenis dRe _ 26<br />
maisi da saeklesio dResaswaulebi<br />
_ naTlisReba, aRdgoma,<br />
mcxeToba, mariamoba, giorgoba<br />
da Soba. uqme dRed gamocxadda<br />
aRdgomis meore dRec. maSin wamodga<br />
darbazSi mzeqala SaniZe<br />
da mimarTa zviad gamsaxurdias:<br />
batono zviad, Cven, qalebi varT<br />
imis Rirsi, rom weliwadSi er-<br />
Ti dResaswauli gvekuTvnodeso?<br />
zviadi daeTanxma. qalbatonma<br />
mzeqalam ganagrZo _ mimaCnia,<br />
rom qalTa dRed Tamaroba<br />
_ 14 maisi unda dawesdeso.<br />
Semdeg, ramdenadac<br />
maxsovs, roin metrevelma<br />
daasaxela 1 ivnisi _ saqarTveloSi<br />
wminda ninos<br />
SemobrZanebis dRe. zviad<br />
gamsaxurdia arc erT ar-<br />
Cevans ar SewinaaRmdegebia,<br />
magram bolos adga<br />
da Tqva: mec maqvs Cemi<br />
mosazreba _ saqarTvelo<br />
RvTismSoblis wilxvedri<br />
qveyanaa, omebSi RvTism-<br />
Sobeli gvifaravda da amitomac<br />
movaRwieT aqamde.<br />
mimaCnia, rom qalTa dResaswaulad<br />
dasaxeldes<br />
mariamoba. Tu Cemi winadadeba gaimarjvebs,<br />
es dRe iqneba yvela<br />
qalis dResaswauli, mariam erqmeva<br />
mas, nino Tu mayvalao.<br />
zviadis winadadebam gaimarjva.<br />
am gadawyvetilebas darbazi<br />
taSis grialiT Sexvda.<br />
_ pativcemulo Tamaz, 26 maisTan<br />
dakavSirebiT dRes azrTa<br />
sxvadasxvaobaa. zogierTi ambobs,<br />
26 maisi Zveli social-demokratebis<br />
dResaswauliao, zogi ambobs<br />
_ merab kostavas dabadebis<br />
dReo. magram, faqtia, rom am<br />
dRem SarSandeli 26 maisis Semdeg<br />
sxvanairi elferi SeiZina.<br />
_ SarSan 26 maiss didi<br />
tragedia datrialda, magram me<br />
axla mogiTxrobT, rogor dawesda<br />
26 maisi damoukideblobis<br />
dRed. 1991 wlis 31 marts<br />
saqarTvelos teritoriaze referendumi<br />
Catarda. dasmuli<br />
iyo kiTxva: gsurT Tu ara 1918<br />
wlis 26 maisis deklaraciis safuZvelze<br />
saqarTvelos damoukideblobis<br />
aRdgena? gamokiTxul-<br />
Ta absoluturma umravlesobam<br />
Tqva: `diax~. magram Semdeg noemberSi<br />
uzenaesma sabWom daadgina,<br />
rom damoukideblobis dRes vizeimebdiT<br />
9 aprils, 1989 wlis<br />
9 aprili tragediis pativsacemad.<br />
amasTan dakavSirebiT erTi<br />
ambavi maxsendeba. im dReebSi Coxatauris<br />
raionis sofel SuasurebSi<br />
viyavi dakrZalvaze. im<br />
weliwads 7 aprils iyo aRdgoma,<br />
samSabaTs ki Cemi biZaSvilis<br />
dakrZalva. dasaflavebis meore<br />
dRes cxenianma fostalionma momitana<br />
depeSa, sadac ewera _ gilocavT<br />
saqarTvelos damoukideblobas.<br />
Seni `boria~. `dobiroSi~<br />
(ubans hqvia) deni ar iyo<br />
da soflis centrSi gaviqeci, es<br />
ambavi marTali Tu aris, vinmes<br />
mainc ecodineba-meTqi. _kio, gamoacxades<br />
damoukideblobao, _<br />
damidastures mezoblebma. Tuki<br />
vinmes vicnobdi zviad gamsaxurdiadan<br />
dawyebuli akaki asaTiani,<br />
burWulaZe, yvela movikiTxe da<br />
mivuloce. Cemze bednieri aravin<br />
meguleboda maSin...<br />
_ 3 marti dedis dRed vin<br />
gamoacxada, Tamaz batono?<br />
_ es ambavi ase moxda: parlamentis<br />
erT-erT rigiT sxdomaze<br />
parlamentis vice-spikeri,<br />
SevardnaZes rom TvalebSi Sescicinebda,<br />
rusudan beriZe gamovida<br />
da mimarTa SevardnaZes: batono<br />
eduard, Cven, qalebs, mogvwonda<br />
8 martis dResaswauli,<br />
magram erTma kacma gagviuqma. ise<br />
Tqva, yvelam igrZno, zviad gamsaxurdias<br />
rom gulisxmobda,<br />
magram misi xseneba, rogorc<br />
`uxseneblis~ ise ar undoda.<br />
_ romeli dRe? _ hkiTxa SevardnaZem.<br />
_ ai, Tundac xvalindeli<br />
dReo, _ upasuxa rusudan beri-<br />
Zem. im dRes 2 marti iyo. aseTi<br />
dialogi gaimarTa maSin am or<br />
samarcxvino guruls<br />
Soris da yovelgvarisafuZvlis<br />
gareSe daaweses<br />
dedis dRed 3<br />
marti.<br />
samwuxarod, ratomRac,<br />
rac dro<br />
gadis, sul ufro<br />
xSirad acxadeben, 3<br />
marti dedis dRed<br />
zviad gamsaxurdiam<br />
gamoacxadao, magram<br />
ase ar aris. `axal<br />
TaobasTan~ interviuSi<br />
nodar naTa-<br />
Zem pirdapir Tqva<br />
aseTi ram_ `dedis<br />
dRis~ daweseba<br />
uzenaesi sabWos<br />
damsaxurebaa da vamayob<br />
amiTo.<br />
mokled, Cemo<br />
iranda, mTel saqarTvelos<br />
unda<br />
gavagebinoT, rom<br />
zviad gamsaxurdias<br />
3 marti dedis<br />
dRed ar gamoucxadebia. zemoT<br />
giTxariT, rom man qalTa dRed<br />
28 agvisto, RvTismSobloba<br />
aRiara da es gadawyvetileba absoluturad<br />
swori iyo. jer<br />
erTi, rogorc amboben, saqarTvelo<br />
mariam RvTismSoblis<br />
wilxvedria. TviTon zviad gamsaxurdiac<br />
ambobda: yovel diliT<br />
rom viRviZeb ilias leqsiT<br />
viwyeb locvas da amor striqons<br />
orjer vimeorebo:<br />
``mohmadle qqarTvels<br />
qqarTvelis ndoba da<br />
siyvaruli<br />
da aRRudgine mSvenieri<br />
ese mamuli~.<br />
ase, rom visac miaCnia, rom<br />
saqarTvelos kanonmdeblobiT<br />
kanonierad arCeuli prezidentis<br />
gadawyvetileba sworia, es<br />
dResaswaulebi unda vizeimoT.<br />
iranda kalandaZe<br />
vesaubrebiT eqspert-politologs,<br />
baton paata zaqareiSvils<br />
_ 27 maiss `qarTul ocnebas~<br />
masStaburi aqcia aqvs dagegmili.<br />
ras ityviT `qarTuli<br />
ocnebis~ am iniciativis Sesaxeb?<br />
_ Tu Cemi mosazreba gainteresebT,<br />
mogaxsenebT: vinaidan<br />
`qarTul ocnebaSi~ miRebulia<br />
amgvari gadawyvetileba, maSin<br />
unda Sedges kidec. me ar gaxlavarT<br />
politsabWoSi. Tu<br />
partiis politsabWom gadawyvita,<br />
rom saWiroa winasaarCevno<br />
kampaniisTvis, amas pativi<br />
unda vceT da unda<br />
Catardes kidec. roca<br />
partiaSi gansxvavebuli<br />
mosazrebebis miuxedavad<br />
umravlesoba aseT gadawyvetilebas<br />
Rebulobs, ese<br />
igi, es kargad mofiqrebuli,<br />
awon-dawonili da<br />
gaTvlili RonisZiebaa.<br />
_ anu migaCniaT, rom<br />
es sasargeblo iqneba winasaarCevno<br />
kampaniisTvis?<br />
_ mogexsenebaT, rom<br />
me kategoriulad winaaRmdegi<br />
var quCis aqciebiTa<br />
da revoluciebiT xelisuflebis<br />
cvlilebebis.<br />
Tu aqciis dros gaCndeba lozungi<br />
`miSa wadi!~ da amgvari<br />
raRacebi, CemTvis miuRebeli<br />
iqneba. Tu ganacxadia imisa,<br />
rom winasaarCevno kampanias emsaxureba<br />
da saboloo jamSi<br />
arCevnebiT icvleba xelisufleba,<br />
misaRebi forma iqneba.<br />
quCis aqcia unda iyos ara centraluri,<br />
aramed damatebiTi<br />
politikuri komponenti. didi<br />
imedi maqvs centralurad ar<br />
gadaiqceva.<br />
_ yvelasTvis moulodnelad<br />
gasul kviras erT mSvenier<br />
dRes mTeli simwvaviT wamoiWra<br />
daviT-garejis problema,<br />
xom ar SeiZleba moxdes isec,<br />
rom ucbad mogvaxsenon, rom<br />
iseTi da afxazeTi Cveni ar iyo<br />
da arc iqneba?<br />
_ samwuxarod es `erTi<br />
mSvenieri dRe~ saakaSvilma ukve<br />
araerTxel mosinja. man xom<br />
aRniSna afxazeTi saqarTvelos<br />
SemadgenlobaSi arasodes yofilao.<br />
es araviTar SemTxveva-<br />
Si araa SemTxveviTi wamocdena.<br />
bolo ori wlis manZilze saakaSvils<br />
parlamentis winaSe<br />
Tavis gamosvlebSi arcerTxel<br />
ar uxsenebia afxazeTi da sama-<br />
Cablo. ucbad ki acxadebs afxazeTi<br />
Cveni arasdros yofilao.<br />
am fonze TavisTavad garejis<br />
sakiTxi ar aris SemTxveviTi.<br />
aseve arc azizies meCeTis<br />
problema, saerTod aq meCeTzea<br />
saubari Tu raze, bundovania.<br />
mixeil saakaSvils sWirdeba<br />
gadaitanos yuradReba, axlo<br />
momavalSi Cikagos samitia. aseve<br />
sulac ar gaxlavT SemTxveviTi<br />
gasul kviras seqsualur<br />
umciresobaTa da homofobebis<br />
saerTo gazeTi<br />
aqciebi. unda avyveT Tu ara<br />
Cven am gancxadebas da aqciebs?<br />
roca raRac politikur nabijs<br />
vdgamT, unda davfiqrdeT xom<br />
ar vTamaSobT prezidentis TamaSis<br />
wesebiT? sityviT Tavisufleba<br />
konstituciiT aris<br />
garantirebuli. aravin zRudavs<br />
homoseqsualistebs, aseve<br />
homofobebsac. Tu raime an vinme<br />
ar mogvwons, gamodi, calke<br />
Caatare mitingi Tu aqcia.<br />
darbevebi da amgvari raRacebi<br />
isev mixeil saakaSvilis wisqvilze<br />
asxams wyals. mas surs<br />
aCvenos msoflios _ xom xedavT,<br />
me rogori demokrati<br />
`quCis aqcia unda iyos<br />
ara centraluri,<br />
aramed damatebiTi<br />
politikuri komponenti~<br />
prezidenti var, Cems moqalaqeebs<br />
nebismieri mosazrebiT SeuZlia<br />
gamovidnen, aqcia Caataron,<br />
sxvebi ki mebrZvian...<br />
_ anu SesaZlebelia es yvelaferi<br />
da daviT-garejis sakiTxic<br />
spekulirebis Tema gaxdes?<br />
_ daviT-gareji yovelTvis<br />
sadavo iyo da arc dRes ar<br />
wydeba es sakiTxi. yovel Sem-<br />
TxvevaSi, imedia, rom dRes ar<br />
wydeba. imedia, saakaSvils amaze<br />
xeli ar mouweria. es sakiTxi<br />
arCevnebis merec iqneba<br />
sadavo. Tu saakaSvili gaurigda<br />
azerbaijanul mxares da xeli<br />
moawera raRacas, es ukve<br />
saSinelebaa. uxeS magaliTs moviyvan:<br />
mkvlelis dasjiT mokluls<br />
ver gaacocxleb. SesaZloa<br />
garigeba gulisxmobs Semdegs.<br />
Sepirda raRac-raRacebs,<br />
misca ufleba gaamagron poziciebi,<br />
oRond sanacvlod azerbaijanulenovanma<br />
mosaxleobam<br />
me momces xmao. misgan yvelaferi<br />
mosalodnelia.<br />
CvenTvis, yvelasTvis umjobesia<br />
emociebi gverdze gadavdoT<br />
da saakaSvili SevcvaloT.<br />
sanam Cven mas ar SevcvliT, ver<br />
mivxvdebiT ras akeTebs. igi<br />
aris gaumWvirvale figura, politikurad<br />
korumpirebuli da<br />
ar viciT ras awers xels. oqtombris<br />
mere gaverkveviT yvelaferSi.<br />
rac ar unda mitingebi<br />
vataroT, araferi gamova.<br />
vimeoreb: amiTi SeiZleba mis<br />
wisqvilze vasxamdeT wyals.<br />
unda gaverkveT mis saqmes xom<br />
ar vakeTebT, ar gavumyaroT poziciebi.<br />
Tamuna qadagiZe<br />
21
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