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22<br />
„qronika+¨ esaubreba „naciona-<br />
luri moZraobis” politikuri<br />
sabWos Tavmjdomaris moadgiles,<br />
zaza bibilaSvils:<br />
_ Cemi azriT, Seqmnilia Cixuri<br />
situacia. igive Tqveni partiis mxardamWerebis<br />
SefasebiT, „naciona-<br />
luri moZraoba” ver aqtiurobs<br />
saTanadod, rogorc unda aqtiur-<br />
obdes. Tumca, marTali giTxraT,<br />
me piradad veRarc ki vxedav, vin<br />
ra unda gaakeTos, rom es situa-<br />
cia realurad Seicvalos. Seqmnil<br />
situaciaSi vgulisxmob im saSinel<br />
kriminogenur viTarebas, romel-<br />
ic dRes qveyanaSia: dRe ar gadis,<br />
vinmes yeli rom ar gamoWran, ar<br />
Cacxrilon, ar daWran. Tan ukve<br />
sam-sams Wrian erTbaSad. is brZe-<br />
ni kaci ki isev isteriulad daaTrevs<br />
xeebs, fasebi garbis, qveyana-<br />
Si trialebs ekonomikuri stagnacia,<br />
mZvinvarebs korufcia, ubedureba,<br />
saSveli arsaidan araa. piradad<br />
TqvenTvis Tu aris damakmayofilebeli<br />
Tqveni partiis aq-<br />
tiuroba da Tqveni azriT, sad<br />
aris gamosavali?<br />
_ qveyanaSi arsebuli realobis<br />
Sefasebas, ra Tqma unda, veTanxmebi.<br />
gacilebiT mwvavec viqnebodi _<br />
araerTxel miTqvams, rom es xelisufleba<br />
im problemebs, romelic<br />
Cveni qveynis winaSe dgas, ver gamoasworebs.<br />
ver gamoasworebs er-<br />
Ti martivi mizezis gamo, is Tavad<br />
aris am qveynis problema, is Tavad<br />
aris mizezi yvela im problemisa,<br />
romelic dRes Cven winaSe dgas.<br />
amixseniT, rogor unda gamoasworos<br />
korufcia korumpirebulma<br />
Cinovnikma? kalaZe korufcias xom<br />
ver mospobs? korufciaa misi politikuri<br />
arsi.<br />
_ mas SeuZlia, konkretuli<br />
korumpirebuli piri moiSoros<br />
korufciasTan brZolis egidiT,<br />
rogorc iSorebda SevardnaZe ax-<br />
algazrdobaSi.<br />
_ ra Tqma unda, mas SeuZlia,<br />
cixeSi Caasmevinos viRac, vinc ai-<br />
Ro, magaliTad, 3 aTasi dolaris<br />
qrTami, magram Tavad aiRebs mraval<br />
milions, an sammilionian saxelmwifo<br />
Sesyidvas tenderis gareSe<br />
Caatarebs, an „gazpromTan”<br />
dadebs moRalatur xelSekrulebas.<br />
_ Tumca aqve isic unda vTqvaT,<br />
rom arc enm-m, misma aqtiurma<br />
wevrebma Tu aqtiurma mxardamW-<br />
erebma ar unda gamoidon Tavi im<br />
3 aTasi dolaris amRebi meqrTa-<br />
mis dasacavad. ucnauri iyo mis<br />
janmrTelobaze zrunva, mis<br />
gasaTavisufleblad brZola...<br />
_ absoluturad geTanxmebi, im<br />
adamians (vinme abesaZezea saubari),<br />
namdvilad araferi etyoboda janmrTelobaSeryeulis.<br />
rogorc Cans,<br />
es iyo Tavidan bolomde dadgmuli<br />
speqtakli. Tavi moisawyla da<br />
moimkvdaruna. is aris Cveulebrivi<br />
meqrTame. sxva saqmea, rom milionebisa<br />
da miliardebis qurdebi aTasebis<br />
qurdebs erCian, magram aqlemis<br />
qurdi da nemsis qurdi orive<br />
qurdia. vimeoreb, es xelisufleba<br />
Tavad aris yvela im problemis mizezi<br />
da saTave, romelic Cveni qveynis<br />
winaSe dgas. rogor unda daamarcxos<br />
am xelisuflebam kriminali,<br />
rodesac Tavad dgas kriminalze?<br />
dRes xuTiaTaslariani giraos<br />
sanacvlod gamouSves ori naZirala,<br />
SoTa isakaZe da irakli rexviaSvili,<br />
„ocnebisa” da kalaZis<br />
aqtivistebi da, rogorc CvenTvis<br />
cnobilia, kalaZis colisZmis axlo<br />
megobrebi, romlebic ramdenime<br />
dRis win Tavs daesxnen uwesieres<br />
axalgazrdas, Cveni moZraobis<br />
aqtiur wevrs, kavkasiolog aleko<br />
kvaxaZes. Tavidan mas mosTxoves<br />
600-lariani onlain sesxis aReba<br />
da Tanxis maTTvis gadacema. rodesac<br />
uari miiRes, pirdapir Zala-<br />
rezo SatakiSvili<br />
597 94 42 50<br />
294 69 77; qronikaqronika@gmail.com<br />
dobaze gadavidnen. aleko kvaxaZes<br />
saxeze etyoboda sisxlis kvali,<br />
dasiebuli iyo, mas eqspertizac<br />
Cautarda. Tavdasxmisas daxeuli<br />
qurTuki policiaSi nivTmtkicebad<br />
datova, roca aRmoCnda, rom<br />
mas meore qurTukic ki ar aqvs! es<br />
naZiralebi, romlebic Cvens qveyanas<br />
aTobiT da asobiT milions<br />
hparaven, Tavisnair, oRond ufro<br />
wvrilman kriminalebs giraos sanacvlod<br />
uSveben gareT da Tan<br />
dagvcinian, _ kriminali unda SevamciroTo.<br />
rogor unda Seamciron<br />
kriminali, roca TviTon arian<br />
kriminalebi? msgavsi magaliTi SemiZlia<br />
aTobiT da asobiT mogiyvanoT...<br />
_ amis magaliTia basianSi mo-<br />
mxdari SemTxveva, roca sami piris<br />
damWreli giraoTi gamouSves da<br />
mxolod meore instanciaSi Seu-<br />
fardes patimroba, isic imitom,<br />
rom iZulebuli gaxdnen, radgan<br />
magrad dadga am basianis patro-<br />
ni, atyda skandali, isterika...<br />
_ sanam iusticiis saxlis win<br />
mkvlelebis, kriminaluri samyaros<br />
revanSis Zegli dgas, Cvens qveyana-<br />
Si kriminali ar Semcirdeba da situacia<br />
mxolod uaresobisken wava.<br />
da es Zegli idgeba manamde, vidre<br />
am qveyanas marTavs korumpirebuli<br />
Zala, kuriozuli saxeliT „qarTuli<br />
ocneba”. ra momentSic ivaniSvili<br />
aRar iqneba am qveynis mmar-<br />
Tveli, ra momentSic xalxi _ kanonmorCili,<br />
mSromeli adamianebi gaimarjveben,<br />
pirveli, rasac vizamT,<br />
iqneba am Zeglis simboluri demontaJi<br />
da misi dadgma „ocnebis” politikur<br />
saflavze. is, rom es Zegli<br />
dgas iusticiis saxlis win, aris<br />
Seuracxyofa TiToeuli kanonmorCili<br />
adamianisa da simbolo imisa,<br />
rom dRes am qveyanas korumpirebuli<br />
moRalateebi da kriminalebi<br />
marTaven. rac Seexeba Cveni<br />
partiis aqtiurobas, cxadia, zedmetia<br />
raime kmayofilebaze saubari.<br />
Cven kmayofilebi maSin ki ar<br />
viqnebiT, „endiais” an „airais” kvlevebSi<br />
5, 10 an, Tundac, 20%-iT<br />
meti rom gveqneba. Cven kmayofilebi<br />
viqnebiT mxolod maSin, rodesac<br />
Cvens moqalaqeebs daubrundebaT<br />
awmyosa da momavlis rwmena da<br />
imedi, rac gamoricxulia ivaniSvilis<br />
reJimis pirobebSi. kmayofilebi<br />
viqnebiT mxolod maSin, rodesac<br />
Cveni qveynis kanonmorCili,<br />
mSromeli moqalaqeebi Tavs igrZnoben<br />
daculad kriminalisgan,<br />
romelic „qarTulma ocnebam” auSva.<br />
kmayofilebi viqnebiT mxolod<br />
maSin, rodesac is totaluri korufcia,<br />
romelic qveyanaSi dabrunda,<br />
dasruldeba. Sesabamisad,<br />
bunebrivia, kmayofilebi ar varT.<br />
magram Semdeg ismis kiTxva, _ ra<br />
unda gavakeToT imisTvis, rom es<br />
realoba Seicvalos? ar minda,<br />
Tavis marTlebad, an Semgueblobad<br />
CamiTvaloT, ase namdvilad araa,<br />
magram unda gavacnobieroT, rom<br />
umZimes omSi vimyofebiT, meore mxares<br />
realurad dgas ruseTi. mTeli<br />
es kriminalebic, meqrTameebic,<br />
zogi Segnebulad da zogic Seugneblad<br />
(90% mainc Seugneblad)<br />
akeTeben rusul, anu antiqarTul<br />
da antisaxelmwifoebriv saqmes.<br />
Cveni qveynis winaaRmdeg muSaobs<br />
`rac ufro cudad<br />
aris rigiTi<br />
qarTveli, miT<br />
ufro kargad<br />
arian ivaniSvili<br />
da kalaZe~<br />
uzarmazari sainformacio-propagandistuli<br />
manqana. am propagandistuli<br />
manqanis 90% qarTulenovania,<br />
magram es aris rusuli propaganda.<br />
rodesac amas vambobdiT<br />
igive badri patarkaciSvilis<br />
dros, 2009 wels, an 2011 wels, bevri<br />
iSmuSneboda, Tvalebs zemoT<br />
karklavda, nu kargi, ra, yvelgan<br />
ruseTi gelandebaT, ra dagemar-<br />
TaT da ratom ar uSvebT, rom es<br />
SeiZleba ruseTis gareSec xdebodeso.<br />
ra Tqma unda, vuSvebT,<br />
magram gamocdilebam ra dagvanaxa?<br />
ruseTi ereva safrangeTis, germaniis<br />
arCevnebSi, kataloniis, breqsitis<br />
referendumebSi, amerikis<br />
arCevnebSi. Cven varT saqarTvelo,<br />
romelsac ruseTi realurad Tavis<br />
teritoriad miiCnevs da aq ar Caereoda<br />
arCevnebSi? aba, bedukaZe vin<br />
iyo, romelic mere rusebma „Jurnalisturi<br />
saqmianobisTvis” daajildoes?<br />
an is cxra Tvis bavSvi,<br />
barbare rafalianci, TavisiT Caxta<br />
qvevrSi da daixura sarqveli?<br />
es Zalaa dRes xelisuflebaSi, romelmac<br />
es yvelaferi gaakeTa, ai,<br />
amiT movidnen da amiT agrZeleben<br />
marTvas sinamdvileSi! sul ramdenime<br />
dRis win mokles generali qu-<br />
TaTelaZe. laparakoben, rom wilebi<br />
iyo realuri mizezi. manamde mokles<br />
lomar liguriani, Cveni partiis<br />
Tavmjdomare svaneTSi, maSinac<br />
ambobdnen, rom mizezi TiTqos<br />
sayofacxovrebo konfliqti iyo.<br />
magram ra mniSvneloba aqvs amas?<br />
faqtia, qveyanaSi viRacas SeuZlia,<br />
daiqiravos mkvleli, miagzavnos da<br />
moklas adamiani. rogorc mokles<br />
erosi kiwmariSvili, rogorc axla<br />
mokles generali quTaTelaZe,<br />
rogorc manamde mokles maisuraZe<br />
an xarZiani...<br />
_ problema isaa, rom gaadvile-<br />
bulia mkvleloba, Torem mizezi<br />
yovelTvis gamoiZebneba, bolo-<br />
bolo, manana kobaxiZiseul „iqneb,<br />
deda Seagina”-mde mivalT.<br />
_ diax, mizezs da motivs mniSvneloba<br />
ar aqvs, mkvleloba aris<br />
mkvleloba!<br />
_ metic, miT ufro saxifaToa,<br />
rodesac mkvlelobebi umniSvnelo<br />
mizeziT xdeba. erTia, rode-<br />
sac mkvlelobebi politikuri mo-<br />
tiviT xdeba, ase safrTxis qveS<br />
arian politikosebi da meorea,<br />
rodesac mkvlelobebi xdeba wil-<br />
ebze, sayofacxovrebo konfli-<br />
qtebis Sedegad. ase yvelas eqneba<br />
wilebze dava, sayofacxovrebo<br />
konfliqtebi da safrTxe pirTa<br />
gacilebiT farTo wres emuqreba,<br />
mTeli sazogadoeba safrTxis qve-<br />
Saa.<br />
_ diax, am mizezebs ise iSvelieben,<br />
gegoneba, amarTlebdes, an xsnides<br />
am danaSaulebs. ara, batonebo,<br />
piriqiTaa, lomar ligurianis<br />
mkvlelobis Semdeg misi ojaxis<br />
wevrebma pirdapir Tqves, rom es<br />
aris qveyanaSi gamefebuli dausjelobis<br />
sindromis Sedegi. igive<br />
xdeboda 90-ian wlebSi. 90-iani wlebis<br />
dabruneba aris am yvelafris<br />
bolo. ubralod, erTaderTi imitomaa<br />
naklebsavaraudo 90-iani<br />
wlebis qaosamde misvla, rom dRes<br />
aris marTuli qaosi da am marTuli<br />
qaosiT piradadaa dainteresebuli<br />
ivaniSvili. ivaniSvilis reJimi<br />
dgas politikuri Zalebis fragmentaciaze,<br />
vinaidan gacilebiT martivad<br />
da iafad axerxebs am fragmentebis<br />
Sesyidvas. reJimi dgas am<br />
marTul kriminalur qaosze, sadac,<br />
rogorc junglebSi, yvela<br />
yvelas winaaRmdegaa. am yvelafris<br />
TavSi TviTon dgas, ganmartoebuli,<br />
daculi, fuliT uzrunvelyofili.<br />
mTeli saxelmwifo manqana<br />
muSaobs misi da misi ojaxis usafrTxoebasa<br />
da mSvid Zilze da ara<br />
Cveni, Cveulebrivi moqalaqeebis<br />
usafrTxoebasa da mSvid Zilze.<br />
rac ufro cudad aris TiToeuli<br />
rigiTi moqalaqe, miT ufro ukeT<br />
aris ivaniSvili da miT ufro kargad<br />
arian mis garSemo arsebuli<br />
klanebis wevrebi.<br />
_ da ra unda gakeTdes am situ-<br />
aciidan Tavis dasaRwevad?<br />
_ dameTanxmeT, rom mZime da<br />
uTanasworo brZolaSi varT, enm-m<br />
Seqmna unikaluri precedenti saqarTvelos<br />
istoriaSi, araTu ubralod<br />
daTmo xelisufleba mSvidobianad,<br />
arCevnebis gziT, aramed<br />
xelisufleba organizebulad<br />
gadaabara am quCidan mosul, antisaxelmwifoebriv<br />
Zalas.<br />
_ dRemde xazs usvamT, rom es<br />
gadabareba iyo pozitiuri, Tum-<br />
ca ukve Cndeba mosazreba, rom es<br />
iyo swored Secdoma, rom am Zal-<br />
isTvis cocxali TaviT ar unda<br />
daeTmoT xelisufleba. Rirda ki<br />
demokratiisTvis amxela msxverplis<br />
gaReba da saxelmwifos am sa-<br />
frTxeSi Cagdeba?<br />
_ axla am Temaze saubari nagvianevicaa<br />
da spekulaciacaa, ar gvinda<br />
amaze saubari. ubralod, vityvi,<br />
rom enm-m ara mxolod mSvidobianad<br />
daTmo xelisufleba, aramed<br />
organizebulad gadaabara am<br />
antisaxelmwifoebriv Zalas da aswavla<br />
mas, ra ekeTebina. aswavla<br />
xalxs, romelsac saxelmwifoebriv<br />
SegnebasTan axlos ar hqonda Cavlili<br />
da mTeli politikuri kariera<br />
gatarebuli hqonda qarTul<br />
saxelmwifosTan brZolaSi. realurad,<br />
2012 wels moxda antisaxelmwifoebrivi<br />
Zalebis, kriminaluri<br />
da korumpirebuli klanebis revan-<br />
Si. da es revanSi grZeldeba dRemde.<br />
mimdinareobs „nacionaluri<br />
moZraobis” srulmasStabiani represiebi,<br />
devna, Cveni yvela lideri<br />
an cixeSia, an politikur devnilobaSia,<br />
aTi aTasze meti wevri aris<br />
prokuraturaSi dakiTxuli da<br />
dRemdea devnis safrTxis qveS.<br />
garda amisa, bolo arCevnebSi Cven,<br />
faqtobrivad, ufulod gavediT<br />
arCevnebze. anu is Sedegi, romelic<br />
davdeT da romelic, bunebrivia,<br />
sulac ar gvaZlevs kmayofilebis<br />
safuZvels, dadebulia swored<br />
am pirobebSi, rodesac partia arsebobs<br />
represiebsa da totaluri<br />
ufulobis pirobebSi. Cveni amocana<br />
am mocemulobis Secvlaa. Cveni<br />
amocana ar aris Tematuri oponireba,<br />
imaze dava, ama Tu im kanonis<br />
ama Tu im muxlsa Tu qvemuxl-<br />
Si konkretulad ra ideba. es, ra<br />
Tqma unda, calke aRebuli mniS-<br />
22 N1 (222) 23.01-29.01.2018 w.