commonwealth of pennsyl,vania - The Pennsylvania General ...

2830 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE September 13,
Now, you have only got three situations here where you can get
it. One of them is if the complaint is dismissed. I do not think
you want to preserve records in that case and I would think you
would want to give the juvenile a break by allowing it to he ex-
punged, but even there, under the Helfrick amendment, it can-
not he done except on a petition presented to a judge with n*
tice to the district attorney that he can come in and oppose it.
Mr. DAVIES. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If I might speak on
the hill itself, it seems to me that the key again is a matter of
the frailty or the possibility of some failure in the system. Now
when Mr. Berson made the comment, if he is a good fellow, I
have no guarantees how diligent district attorneys are in pur-
suing their efforts with those records and. if I take the track
record of some district attorneys, even let us say in my portion
of the State, I would begin to question the dihaence and the
forthrightness and, let us say, even some of the outstanding
performance of those individuals. I then come to the question
of whether or not, again, this is not going to be fraught with
human failures and problems that again bring about the ques-
tion of what is going to be a diligent action, what is going to be
good, where the records are going to be updated and main-
tained, and not that I question the intent of the sponsors or the
directness of it; it is a question of what kind of guarantees do
we have to that end, and I would be willing to listen, even if it
took all day, to have that kind of guarantee. When you are
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talking about for those where it should he taken care of and
was ignored or was not and that the record clearly states that
the man was finally. of course, found innocent and what techni-
cality was involved, or in the pursuance by the attorney or the
district attorney in the keeping of those records for each and
every one of those 67 counties of the Commonwealth. Thank
you, Mr. Speaker.
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gentle-
man from Lehigh, Mr. Zeller.
Mr. ZELLER. Mr. Speaker, there are a few warning signs
that should be brought to the attention of the members, which I
concur with Mr. O'Donnell in regard to, to be very, I should say,
doubtful as to what this will do. For example, I will give you
some of the warning signs.
First of all, the sponsors did not include the reporters and
they have not included the public, and if you notice the votes on
the hoard, when the reporter issue came up, and take a look at
the sponsors, you will kind of get a little idea what is going on.
The juvenile end of it I do not have a problem with because I
have always been a strong supporter-as former mayor I have
been a strong supporter-of covering and trying to leave the
files of juveniles, or even the information, to the press out of
their hands. The simple reason is, as a rule, as far as juveniles
are concerned, the first offender is branded for life, and for the
habitual, it only boosts his ego when he sees his name in the
paper. So you do not really get anywhere by publicizing the
names of juveniles or even the crimes. I do not have a problem
in that area. My problem is one of public records. For example,
those bleeding hearts and the Civil Liberties Union, and a few
more of these people who cry for the public to pay for all these
crimes, adjudication-they are paying for the lawyers now,
they are paying for incarceration-so if the public is paying for
all this, why should they not have access to the records to know
who they are paying for and what they are paying for? So as far
as I am concerned. I think that is a bunch of gobbledygook.
Also, when I see the follow up by Mr. Berson, with all respect
to him, to give us a scare tactic, a financial scare tactic called
LEAA - Law Enforcement Assistance Agency. Now if anyone
knows anything about LEAA, which we have been associated
with since 1968, this is only seeding money. So do not give
them any ideas. Yon will be losing a lot of money. So if you give
that idea to LEAA, they will say, oh, we are going to lose
money. My goodness, federal money, they have to have that. It
is only seeding money to get a program started. There is noth-
ing ongoing about it. so therefore do not let them walk you into
these so-called real liberal traps.
So I say there are some real scare tactics here, especially
when your public, whom you represent, are paying for all the
lawyers, incarcerations, you arepayingfor everything, andstill
you do not have access to a record. I cannot believe it. As a mat-
ter of fact, I think it is about time we start turning this thing
around, and just watch the board and the votes and you will get
a little idea who is all for the so-called freezing everything. The
recent State Police instance is a fine example. So do not be
walked into something that you might think, oh, this sounds
good back home. I got to vote for this because my public will
like it. It will not take you long to explain it to them that the
oublic is losincout to the criminals and all the hleedine hearts.
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*
The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gentleman
from Berks, Mr. Davies.
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Mr. DAVIES. Mr. Speaker, I just have one other question on
the bill itself. I just got this note and I would like--
The SPEAKER pro tempore. It is the understanding of the
Chair. Mr. Davies. that vou have alreadv . s~oken . twice on the
bill.
Mr. DAVIES. No, it is a matter of interrogation, not speaking
on the bill. I would like to address it, if I might, not to the sponsor
but one of the cosponsors, Mr. Scirica. If he could give me
some guarantee, I might better address myself as to how I am
going to vote on the hill, and I just received this.
Mr. Speaker, is there some way or other that I can be given a
guarantee that someone is going to pursue the upkeeping of
these records in reference to juveniles other than the matter of
the district attorney, or there is going to be some sort of implementation
or system of implementation that these records
are going to be as, let us say, perfect as is humanly possible to
maintain? I am spealung now because of the volume of proceedings
that we have in the courts today and the matter of all
of these involved records, that there is some sort of system in
this that we are going to have-I am going to call it for want of
a better term-a fairly accurate record as to what we have in
this system.
Mr. SCIRICA. Mr. Speaker, in the bill there is a section that
provides that the privacy and security council shall provide for
the accuracy and completeness of all criminal history informa- W
tion. Now there is no specific reference to the juvenile records,
but I think the overall intent of the bill is that the juvenile records
are to be included in this. The mandate that we are giving
not only to the privacy and security council hut also to the en-