Volume 9 Issue 3 - November 2003

sion before the composer even 9ther, and they're both part of our you talk about magic,
touches it. Each tam-tam, each entertainment service. For every again you're at the problem
of entertainment. We
harp, has an idyllic view and aura ·vulnerable person, for anyone who
before the composer does any- is unprotected, serenity is m~ch should be rational, the rational
is helping us, but
thing. Making the sounds empty more touching than a harlequin or
of all the connotations that fill them a messiah. I love Don Quixote, we shouldn't forget the
is a very deep idea.
and I believe in the little girl with transcendental, which is
the matches. The story of this lit~ the ,crucial point of art.
STEENHUISEN: How will the tie girl, just trying to live, to find Without it, it doesn't deserve
the word art.
elements of social critique transfer her own way; who sees a vision
when you have your· music per- in the light of the matches and then
STEENHUISEN: It has
formed in North America? dies, is rriuch more provocative
been said that your music
LACHENMANN: We shouldn't than a story that starts out to make is "negative". Do you
talk too much about social critique. a better world. That you can leave agree?
If a piece is authentic, it's automat- to the pop artists. People can pay
ically a critique of our standardized them for that 1 and think it is wonculture,
without even the intention derful or whatever, but that in the ten see myself described
LACHENMANN: I of­
of being. Our culture is full of ·end, that is conimerciai music. as a composer who is
standardized elements. A compos- STEENHUISEN: You've written against, who is destructive,
refusing. But to .
er is not a missionary. A compos~ and lectured extensively on your
er is not a prophet. A composer mU.sic, while at the same time, adis
not John the Baptist, who made mit that your trust in language is you have to remove what
view things more clearly, With New Music Concerts' Robert Aitken, 1982
critiques to the people, saying
is preventing you from ·
"You are all sinners". This politi- receding.
cal aspect is an illusion. If I LACHENMANN: I can talk seeing. Therefore, each decision beauty is the word intensity.
thought music was a higher mes- with a student, and when they also has a negative component. search for this in music.
But rejection? I'm allergic to
sage, then I think I must give want to know something, then I'm
some sort of political message, of using intellectual means to 'defreedom,
ofliberty. My teacher scribe the music. But we know e-Verything.
Did Schoenberg reject tonality be­
STEENHUISEN: That's part of the idea that my music is rejection.
cause he made atonal music? No.
was Luigi Nono, a communist. exactly that the intellect is only one LACHENMANN: Yes. Tonality ·He was going with what h~ had
He always had the hope of touch- part of our mind, and one very was something that wasn't rejected, learned from tradition. The whole
ing people, and changing their limited part. I try to make a preconsciousness.
I think art does cise definition of that which can be to find riew antenna~ !n .ourselves, ing on from tradition by provoca-
but had to be overcome. We have direction of occidental music is go-
such things, bu.t the composer who de.fined by language, to keep the to listen more, an~ this is a wonder- tion. Provoking humankind to
wants to manipulate the spirit, or mind free for what cannot be exconscience
of another will always pressed by language.
my music has as much beauty as this is beautiful this is serene, and
ful adventure of discovery. For me, new experiences. This is human,
fail. It's not possible. In Toronto STEENHUISEN: The irrational? any conventioTI?1 music'. ma~be it requires the p~rticipation of the
once I listened to the Sunday
more. Beauty 1s a precious idea. listener in this adventure. Provowant
to liberate this term from the cation in this sense is not a nega-
morning TV evangelists. That is / LACHENMANN: Exactly. The
entertainment. An artist should irrational, the transcendental, all the standardized categories. - tive thing. Society's laziness crenot
be that.
things we can't define. It's impos- I'll give you ~ little example. I ates these polemical situations.
.If he's sensitive about his musi- sible. I speak about the means I · used to teach children, and I p(e- I've had such scandals because of
cal, structural, material purity, then use. ii) composition, why I use sented them the musi~ of Sto_ck- these thoughts, where people were
whatever he does shall have such them, I try to analyze the cultural hausen, etc . . They said _tha,t it_ . angry because, on the one hand
an effect of touching people. But situation in which we're living and wasn't beautiful, they d1~n t like it. they Jove pmsk, and this was a .
through the other side, which he are formed by. I try to make a I asked them what they liked, what music they couldn't follow, they
doesn't control. Each fugue or diagnosis of all those things, then I they thought was beautiful, and they were Jost, and on the other hand,
invention of Johann Sebastian try to explain structure, and the first hesitantly ·named some pcip mu- they preferred a comfortable way
Bach was not done to. make the construction, because composing is sic. The next wee_k, I wen~ there of thinking about music. Maybe
world better, but it did make the about describing time, with the and brought two p1_ctures with me. they need such comfort, because
world better, by switching in a help of sounds, or vice-versa. One w~ an attracu~e photograph of they are full of fear in everyday
certain way, because it was one of These are totally practical probthe
documents of totally concentrat- !ems, like an architect has, or an other was a drawing by AI?recht phes. Going to an opera or conthe
movie star Sophia Lor.en. The life, there are so many catastro-
, ed, totally free human spirit. Not , engineer, but we speak abou.t it not Diirer, who had drawn~ picture of cert hall, they don't want to be
more, not less.
tQ make a design or a construction his mother: very old, with a long .confused. But I think in that situano~e,
and bi_tter looking face. ·. She tion, you shouldn't have fear of
I made an opera which has a · for itself, because the elements
social critique story (H!ffiS Chris- we're working with are full of sigtiah
Andersen's The Little Match nifications. I try to link the atten- full of wrinkles. I showed the two glad to be confused. It's the most
had a har~ life, and her face was being confused. You should be
Girl). It's subject is the coldness tion to what is behind it. So if pictures and asked "Who is more active way to live. Confusion is
of society, and ignorance towa~d you want to explain the secret of beautiful?" They were totally con- to discover oneself in a new way.
the poor, or the outsider. But at Mozart's music - how can you? fused, and then came the "."onderful This is my dialectic of provocation
the same tjme,.it's the perfect fairy You can describe the formulas that ~w~r I'll never_ forget - _it w~ 1;?e and beauty, and music as a great
tale. Because at the same time it's he didn't even invent, because he highlight of my hfe. A girl said I and wonderful adventure. I like to
such a sad and serene story, it's was a child of his time. But you think the ugly one is more beauti- speak of music in positive terms.
much more touching than any pa- can analyze it whatever way you ful". This is the dialectical way. I was so happy when you asked
thetic message told directly. 30 want. ' Then you listeri, and you Loo~g at this ~icture, one feels the me if it's not music, what is it
years ago, in a programme note at realize that you didn't speak about precise observation o'. her son_. Not. then. This is a question we
Donaueschingen, I wrote that I what really happened as you were to make it more beautiful, not ideal- should cultivate. I wait for pieces
hate Messiahs. I hate harlequins. Jistening to it. It's the best way to ized, just showing it. . It was full of that bring me to this existential
One is a deformed variation of the not mystify the irrational. When intensity. To me, as important as question.
26 WWW. THEWHOLENOTE. COM N O VEMBER 1 - D ECEMBE R 7 2003