Mr. Chairman, just before Mr - The Tribunal of Inquiry into Certain ...

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1411:11:291 Q. 11 So do I take it from that answer that you are saying it did comply with the2 County Development Plan?3 A. That was a matter for the County Council and the --4 Q. 12 We are talking about the County Council Mr. Gilmartin?11:11:415 A. Yeah well, that was a matter for them. I was not there to make decisions on6 their behalf. I just proposed a scheme that I believe was a winner, not only7 that, for the area, for employment. And as far as I was concerned it was8 right, so I am not going to sit here now and tell you it was wrong. And9 neither, that was not your opinion at the time Mr. Lawlor, as you well know.11:12:1010 Q. 13 Would you agree that the County Council at both official and elected member11 level saw this as a total contradiction of the County Development Plan?12 A. I believe Mr. Lawlor, it was you that had a survey of the councillors done and13 you faxed it to me where there was about 55 of the councillors wanted my scheme14 to happen. And I believe it was you that initiated that Mr. Lawlor.11:12:3815 Q. 14 Well could you give the Tribunal details of that now because you are raising16 matters --17 A. I have given them whatever papers I have on it. It was you Mr. Lawlor, that18 came to me and faxed me the survey you had done of the councillors who, there19 was 78 councillors and of them 56 of them, according to you, were totally in11:13:0820 support of the Quarryvale scheme that I had presented.21 Q. 15 Could I ask Chairman is the Tribunal in possession of that information.2223 CHAIRMAN: Of the fax?2411:13:1925 MR. LAWLOR: Well I faxed a letter and I did a survey and I don't know what26 else I am supposed to do.2728 JUDGE KEYS: Well did you?2911:13:2630 CHAIRMAN: Are you saying you didn't?Premier Captioning & Realtime Limitedwww.pcr.ie Day 474
1511:13:2812 MR. LAWLOR: I'm asking --34 CHAIRMAN: Mr. Lawlor, are you saying, Mr. Gilmartin said in plain English11:13:335 that you faxed to him a document indicating that you had conducted a survey of6 councillors and that 56 out of 70 odd were supporting his scheme. You now say7 has the Tribunal this document? We'll find out in a minute. But we want you8 to tell us if you did or didn't fax or send a document of that nature to9 Mr. Gilmartin.11:13:561011 MR. LAWLOR: Are you cross-examining me now?1213 CHAIRMAN: I'm asking to you tell the Tribunal.1411:14:0015 MR. LAWLOR: I will deal with that in my evidence when I'm in the box --1617 CHAIRMAN: But it would help the Tribunal. Either you sent this document or18 you didn't. Or you can't remember.1911:14:1420 MR. LAWLOR: Mr. Chairman, if you want to ask me questions I will answer them.21 I am asking Mr. Gilmartin who has now made a suggestion, or an allegation or22 whatever category it's put under, that I took some action to brief him about23 documents and about faxes. I am asking him has, well I address the question to24 yourself, I will ask Mr. Gilmartin, have you any evidence to support that11:14:4025 contention Mr. Gilmartin. Have you discovered any evidence?2627 MR. GALLAGHER: Sir, that is not the issue. Mr. Gilmartin has made a28 statement that Mr. Lawlor gave a document. Now that is either true or false.29 Mr. Lawlor should put it to Mr. Gilmartin that it is true, that he did or it is11:14:5830 false that he did not. And he should do so without searching around to seePremier Captioning & Realtime Limitedwww.pcr.ie Day 474
Page 1 and 2: 110:18:511 THE TRIBUNAL COMMENCED A
Page 3 and 4: 310:48:371 Certain Payments in that
Page 5 and 6: 510:53:001 is enquiring about payme
Page 7 and 8: 710:57:361 I quite accept that he i
Page 9 and 10: 911:01:151 planning aspects are of
Page 11 and 12: 1111:05:161 Mr. Gilmartin doesn't s
Page 13: 1311:09:031 Q. 4 So you agree that
Page 17 and 18: 1711:16:301 Tribunal. It still hasn
Page 19 and 20: 1911:20:131 other interested partie
Page 21 and 22: 2111:25:091 the Tribunal?2 A. I bel
Page 23 and 24: 2311:28:231 undermines his credibil
Page 25 and 26: 2511:32:091 kernel of my question a
Page 27 and 28: 2711:36:281 Q. 56 Well back to your
Page 29 and 30: 2911:41:211 A. Yeah well I could pr
Page 31 and 32: 3111:44:591 documentary evidence Mr
Page 33 and 34: 3311:48:271 for that. So it was bas
Page 35 and 36: 3511:52:4512 Now if we go down to t
Page 37 and 38: 3711:57:0812 MR. LAWLOR: And you br
Page 39 and 40: 3912:00:4112 MR. LAWLOR: Chairman I
Page 41 and 42: 4112:03:391 a fact that at 4 four m
Page 43 and 44: 4312:22:141 in at 5.25. Now if it i
Page 45 and 46: 4512:24:5112 MR. LAWLOR: You can re
Page 47 and 48: 4712:28:151 selling it at that time
Page 49 and 50: 4912:32:511 A. As you say it's item
Page 51 and 52: 5112:37:1012 MR. O'DONNELL: Chairma
Page 53 and 54: 5312:41:371 an answer to a simple q
Page 55 and 56: 5512:45:411 profit of 6.1 million.2
Page 57 and 58: 5712:49:4612 Could I just have page
Page 59 and 60: 5912:54:371 acres, did you explain
Page 61 and 62: 6112:58:431 Q. 178 I know what's in
Page 63 and 64: 6313:02:091 CHAIRMAN: Well, he is n
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6514:03:441 this question.23 So I w
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6714:08:281 Q. 204 Can the Tribunal
Page 69 and 70:
6914:13:201 would appear to be earl
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7114:17:191 and remark of the 27th
Page 73 and 74:
7314:20:331 Mr. Gilmartin occurred
Page 75 and 76:
7514:23:571 without huge resources
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7714:28:251 Mr. Gilmartin was the 1
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7914:33:011 A. That's correct. He d
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8114:37:401 you had two meetings wi
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8314:42:111 At the time they were t
Page 85 and 86:
8514:46:131 is at 3869 the Taoiseac
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8714:50:301 Q. 248 Now Mr. Gilmarti
Page 89 and 90:
8914:55:161 the Attorney General's
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9114:59:301 meeting. There is one s
Page 93 and 94:
9315:04:001 years, but to sit down
Page 95 and 96:
9515:08:221 took place?2 A. Could h
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9715:11:321 lead and there is a sug
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9915:15:071 taking place. Secondly
Page 101 and 102:
10115:18:571 recollection to presen
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10315:21:481 minutes.23 THE TRIBUNA
Page 105 and 106:
10515:37:421 He says that he left t
Page 107 and 108:
10715:41:311 two opposites23 CHAIRM
Page 109 and 110:
10915:47:2512 First of all, do you
Page 111 and 112:
11115:51:531 I could go through 40
Page 113 and 114:
11315:56:271 could well have said d
Page 115 and 116:
11516:00:581 the trustees just to m
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11716:03:3812 I have voluntarily ma
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11916:08:221 closer to the event.2
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12116:10:421 Q. 317 Do you know why
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12316:14:401 Q. 331 You haven't ans
Page 125 and 126:
12516:18:5112 Can I ask you in rela
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12716:23:061 Q. 349 And you were aw
Page 129 and 130:
12916:26:581 together with a team o
Page 131 and 132:
13116:31:521 A. I didn't.2 Q. 371 A
Page 133 and 134:
13316:36:061 meeting took place or
Page 135 and 136:
13516:40:3612 "The Tribunal underst
Page 137 and 138:
13716:45:271 slightly dogmatic appr
Page 139 and 140:
13916:49:181 MR. O'NEILL: Please if
Page 141 and 142:
14116:52:431 then accusing him of n
Page 143 and 144:
14316:56:221 I remember Mr. Gilmart
Page 145 and 146:
14517:00:401 A. Yes.2 Q. 403 If the
Page 147 and 148:
14717:04:531 evidence, said he aske
Page 149 and 150:
14917:08:521 Q. 426 And Mr. Joe Bur
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15117:13:241 that appears in the ev
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15317:19:091 nothing to do anyway i
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15517:23:221 you needed was some fo
Page 157 and 158:
15717:46:3012 "The Taoiseach said t
Page 159 and 160:
15917:51:3112 "Early on one Monday
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16117:55:211 A. Thank you.2 Q. 459
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16317:59:431 A. I don't recollect t
Page 165 and 166:
16518:04:201 Q. 484 You, and indeed
Page 167 and 168:
16718:08:381 A. Officially recorded
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16918:13:121 Q. 513 Would you expec
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17118:17:361 A. I haven't explain i
Page 173 and 174:
17318:21:381 A. I put out a stateme
Page 175 and 176:
17518:25:5712 In the first paragrap
Page 177 and 178:
17718:30:001 chat meetings.2 Q. 556
Page 179 and 180:
17918:34:211 if I could get him som
Page 181 and 182:
18118:37:291 EXAMINATION OF AN TAOI
Page 183 and 184:
18318:41:291 concerned that it was
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18518:46:151 A. I was aware.2 Q. 59
Page 187 and 188:
18718:51:061 Do you see that entry
Page 189 and 190:
18918:55:121 roof, they were every
Page 191 and 192:
19118:59:421 taking place on the fi
Page 193 and 194:
19319:02:521 RE EXAMINATION OF AN T
Page 195 and 196:
19519:07:421 A. Yes.2 Q. 622 This i
Page 197 and 198:
19719:12:351 direct line is concern
Page 199:
19919:16:501 A. I think it was chec
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Mr. Chairman, just before Mr - The Tribunal of Inquiry into Certain ...

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