Mr. Chairman, just before Mr - The Tribunal of Inquiry into Certain ...

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2811:39:001 proposition is put to me or a problem I set about solving it and I can do it.2 Q. 63 So you convey to Mr. Harris, do I --3 A. Yes exactly.4 Q. 64 That's what you would --11:39:145 A. They knew me for years, they understood me.6 Q. 65 That you were an odd job man.7 A. An odd job man. Yes. When I say on jobs they were very odd Mr. Lawlor.8 Q. 66 That's getting more obvious by the minute.9 A. Most peculiar, one day I'll explain them to you.11:39:3410 Q. 67 Very odd is right.11 A. One day I'll explain them to you perhaps.12 Q. 68 I don't think I would give you the time somehow.13 A. No you'd be too busy otherwise.1411:39:4515 CHAIRMAN: Mr. Gilmartin --16 Q. 69 Now if we just have line 13A there. Maybe that might be a better description.17 456, line 13. I don't know whether I have the right page or not. 456 sorry it18 is yes. Page 58, what am I saying? Is that page 58 yes. Sorry Mr. Kavanagh.19 Yeah. So instead of giving him, or giving that description, then you could add11:40:3420 on to it. "That is correct, I was only just should I say a general dog's21 body".22 A. Correct. I don't go with fancy titles or anything like that.23 Q. 70 Could we have --24 A. I don't have to justify myself to anybody on this earth.11:40:4925 Q. 71 I am not asking you, I am just quoting your own evidence, I am only asking you26 these questions, because if we can have page 2627?2728 Now you have been promoted here Mr. Gilmartin from being an odd job man and29 general dog's body to a property investor and developer. You see your heading11:41:2030 there, printed at your instructions?Premier Captioning & Realtime Limitedwww.pcr.ie Day 474
2911:41:211 A. Yeah well I could probably take on that mantle if needs be. I had already2 built and been involved in --3 Q. 72 50,000 square feet in Milton Keynes, isn't that right?4 A. Two office blocks in Milton Keynes, I built my own factories within three years11:41:425 of arriving in England and I built them and paid for them, Mr. Lawlor.6 Q. 73 But they all failed in 1978 and Margaret Thatcher got the blame for that, isn't7 that right?8 A. They didn't fail because of my fault. They failed because of.9 Q. 74 Margaret Tatcher.11:41:5710 A. The winter of discontent. Nothing to do with Margaret Tatcher it started long11 before that.12 Q. 75 You referred in your evidence, you gave credit or blame to Margaret Thatcher in13 your evidence I don't want to waste time, but that's what you said.14 A. Yes she destroyed the major industry, rightly or wrongly, the steel industry,11:42:1515 the motor industry, everything stopped, came to a stop and since I was a16 service to those industries we were very very badly hit.17 Q. 76 I don't dis--18 A. Apart from the winter of discontent and the militant tendencies and the strikes19 we couldn't work for the best part of two or three years.11:42:3520 Q. 77 I don't disagree that times were pretty difficult in trading terms and I am not21 going to waste the Tribunals time and I concur with you that things had failed22 for very good reason?23 A. If you want a little bit of, if you want a little bit of evidence on24 credentials Mr. Lawlor the last scheme I done --11:42:562526 CHAIRMAN: All right Mr. Gilmartin, Mr. Lawlor can you get back on track.27 Q. 78 I will just ask Mr.2829 CHAIRMAN: But Mr. Lawlor this seems to me ridiculous that you are here arguing11:43:0830 whether he calls himself an odd job man or a dog's body. He made it quitePremier Captioning & Realtime Limitedwww.pcr.ie Day 474
Page 1 and 2: 110:18:511 THE TRIBUNAL COMMENCED A
Page 3 and 4: 310:48:371 Certain Payments in that
Page 5 and 6: 510:53:001 is enquiring about payme
Page 7 and 8: 710:57:361 I quite accept that he i
Page 9 and 10: 911:01:151 planning aspects are of
Page 11 and 12: 1111:05:161 Mr. Gilmartin doesn't s
Page 13 and 14: 1311:09:031 Q. 4 So you agree that
Page 15 and 16: 1511:13:2812 MR. LAWLOR: I'm asking
Page 17 and 18: 1711:16:301 Tribunal. It still hasn
Page 19 and 20: 1911:20:131 other interested partie
Page 21 and 22: 2111:25:091 the Tribunal?2 A. I bel
Page 23 and 24: 2311:28:231 undermines his credibil
Page 25 and 26: 2511:32:091 kernel of my question a
Page 27: 2711:36:281 Q. 56 Well back to your
Page 31 and 32: 3111:44:591 documentary evidence Mr
Page 33 and 34: 3311:48:271 for that. So it was bas
Page 35 and 36: 3511:52:4512 Now if we go down to t
Page 37 and 38: 3711:57:0812 MR. LAWLOR: And you br
Page 39 and 40: 3912:00:4112 MR. LAWLOR: Chairman I
Page 41 and 42: 4112:03:391 a fact that at 4 four m
Page 43 and 44: 4312:22:141 in at 5.25. Now if it i
Page 45 and 46: 4512:24:5112 MR. LAWLOR: You can re
Page 47 and 48: 4712:28:151 selling it at that time
Page 49 and 50: 4912:32:511 A. As you say it's item
Page 51 and 52: 5112:37:1012 MR. O'DONNELL: Chairma
Page 53 and 54: 5312:41:371 an answer to a simple q
Page 55 and 56: 5512:45:411 profit of 6.1 million.2
Page 57 and 58: 5712:49:4612 Could I just have page
Page 59 and 60: 5912:54:371 acres, did you explain
Page 61 and 62: 6112:58:431 Q. 178 I know what's in
Page 63 and 64: 6313:02:091 CHAIRMAN: Well, he is n
Page 65 and 66: 6514:03:441 this question.23 So I w
Page 67 and 68: 6714:08:281 Q. 204 Can the Tribunal
Page 69 and 70: 6914:13:201 would appear to be earl
Page 71 and 72: 7114:17:191 and remark of the 27th
Page 73 and 74: 7314:20:331 Mr. Gilmartin occurred
Page 75 and 76: 7514:23:571 without huge resources
Page 77 and 78: 7714:28:251 Mr. Gilmartin was the 1
Page 79 and 80:
7914:33:011 A. That's correct. He d
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8114:37:401 you had two meetings wi
Page 83 and 84:
8314:42:111 At the time they were t
Page 85 and 86:
8514:46:131 is at 3869 the Taoiseac
Page 87 and 88:
8714:50:301 Q. 248 Now Mr. Gilmarti
Page 89 and 90:
8914:55:161 the Attorney General's
Page 91 and 92:
9114:59:301 meeting. There is one s
Page 93 and 94:
9315:04:001 years, but to sit down
Page 95 and 96:
9515:08:221 took place?2 A. Could h
Page 97 and 98:
9715:11:321 lead and there is a sug
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9915:15:071 taking place. Secondly
Page 101 and 102:
10115:18:571 recollection to presen
Page 103 and 104:
10315:21:481 minutes.23 THE TRIBUNA
Page 105 and 106:
10515:37:421 He says that he left t
Page 107 and 108:
10715:41:311 two opposites23 CHAIRM
Page 109 and 110:
10915:47:2512 First of all, do you
Page 111 and 112:
11115:51:531 I could go through 40
Page 113 and 114:
11315:56:271 could well have said d
Page 115 and 116:
11516:00:581 the trustees just to m
Page 117 and 118:
11716:03:3812 I have voluntarily ma
Page 119 and 120:
11916:08:221 closer to the event.2
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12116:10:421 Q. 317 Do you know why
Page 123 and 124:
12316:14:401 Q. 331 You haven't ans
Page 125 and 126:
12516:18:5112 Can I ask you in rela
Page 127 and 128:
12716:23:061 Q. 349 And you were aw
Page 129 and 130:
12916:26:581 together with a team o
Page 131 and 132:
13116:31:521 A. I didn't.2 Q. 371 A
Page 133 and 134:
13316:36:061 meeting took place or
Page 135 and 136:
13516:40:3612 "The Tribunal underst
Page 137 and 138:
13716:45:271 slightly dogmatic appr
Page 139 and 140:
13916:49:181 MR. O'NEILL: Please if
Page 141 and 142:
14116:52:431 then accusing him of n
Page 143 and 144:
14316:56:221 I remember Mr. Gilmart
Page 145 and 146:
14517:00:401 A. Yes.2 Q. 403 If the
Page 147 and 148:
14717:04:531 evidence, said he aske
Page 149 and 150:
14917:08:521 Q. 426 And Mr. Joe Bur
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15117:13:241 that appears in the ev
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15317:19:091 nothing to do anyway i
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15517:23:221 you needed was some fo
Page 157 and 158:
15717:46:3012 "The Taoiseach said t
Page 159 and 160:
15917:51:3112 "Early on one Monday
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16117:55:211 A. Thank you.2 Q. 459
Page 163 and 164:
16317:59:431 A. I don't recollect t
Page 165 and 166:
16518:04:201 Q. 484 You, and indeed
Page 167 and 168:
16718:08:381 A. Officially recorded
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16918:13:121 Q. 513 Would you expec
Page 171 and 172:
17118:17:361 A. I haven't explain i
Page 173 and 174:
17318:21:381 A. I put out a stateme
Page 175 and 176:
17518:25:5712 In the first paragrap
Page 177 and 178:
17718:30:001 chat meetings.2 Q. 556
Page 179 and 180:
17918:34:211 if I could get him som
Page 181 and 182:
18118:37:291 EXAMINATION OF AN TAOI
Page 183 and 184:
18318:41:291 concerned that it was
Page 185 and 186:
18518:46:151 A. I was aware.2 Q. 59
Page 187 and 188:
18718:51:061 Do you see that entry
Page 189 and 190:
18918:55:121 roof, they were every
Page 191 and 192:
19118:59:421 taking place on the fi
Page 193 and 194:
19319:02:521 RE EXAMINATION OF AN T
Page 195 and 196:
19519:07:421 A. Yes.2 Q. 622 This i
Page 197 and 198:
19719:12:351 direct line is concern
Page 199:
19919:16:501 A. I think it was chec
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Mr. Chairman, just before Mr - The Tribunal of Inquiry into Certain ...

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