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4 gjkbnbrf gjkbnbrf nana kakabaZe; `amnistia kriminogenur fons ar gaauaresebs~ nona cabaZe interviu uflebaTadamcvel nana kakabaZesTan _ qalbatono nana, modiT, saubari amnistiis TemiT daviwyoT. Tqven aqtiurad xarT am procesSi CarTuli. ra mdgomareobaa dReisaTvis? viciT, rom prezidentma veto daado proeqts, parlamentma ki daamtkica sakiTxi. am etapze ra xdeba, rodis gaTavisufldebian patimrebi? _ 11 ricxvSi umTavrdeba saakaSvils vada da, Tu am droisaTvis is ar moawers xels, parlaments daubrundeba da parlamentis Tavmjdomare moawers xels. _ patimrebisTvis, romlebic amdeni xania elian ga- Tavisuflebas, es procesi mZime asatania. _ rasakvirvelia, maT- Tvis rTulia. es cudi procesia, patimrebi axali xelisuflebis pirobebSi ukanonod imyofebian cixeebSi. _ politpatimrebTan dakavSirebiT bevri ukmayofileba gamoiTqva, iTqva isic, rom bevri maTgani usamar- Tlod zis am siaSi. _ imas, rom arasakmarisi siaa, veTanxmebi. is, rom arasworad Casmulia, maSin konkretulad unda dasaxeldes, vin aris arasworad Casmuli, imitom rom, zogadi saubari niSnavs, dRes es piari aagora xelisuflebam da im adamianebma, romlebic SeiZleba uSualod xelisuflebas ar warmoadgenen, magram arapirdapir im xelisuflebis TamaSs TamaSoben. vin aris arasworad Casmuli, unda dasaxeldes. ai, am SemTxvevaSi SeiZleba iyos kamaTic, davac, magram manam, sanam ar dasaxeldeba, konkretulad romelia arasworad Casmuli, manamde es mxolod da mxolod Zveli xelisuflebis mier wamowyebuli piaris nawilia. _ kriminogenuri foni damZideba am amnistiiTo... Tqveni damokidebuleba rogoria amasTan dakavSirebiT? _ kriminogenuri foni amnistiis Sedegad naklebad SeiZleba damZimdes, imitom rom iq gaTvaliswinebulia muxlebi, gaTvaliswinebulia SeRava- Tebi. mZime danaSaulebze aris erTi meoTxedi, naklebad mZimeebze sasjelis ganaxevreba, msubuq sasjelebze _ sruli gaTavisufleba, anu es yvelaferi gaTvaliswinebulia. mZime muxlebs roca vgulisxmobT, Tqven iciT, rom SekrebiTobis kanoni mZime danaSaulebisTvis 25-30 wels iTvaliswinebda da, rodesac amnistia erTi meoTxediT exeba aseT muxlebs, iq oTxi da xuTi wlis Camokleba, bunebrivia, ar gulisxmobs gaTavisuflebas. maT kidev rCebaT 20 da 22 weli. aqedan gamomdinare, es sulac ar niSnavs gaTavisuflebas da aranair saSiSroebas ar warmoadgens. Tu piri aTi wlis ganmavlobaSi ar gamosworda, is arc oci wlis ganmavlobaSi gamoswordeba da arc 30 wlis ganmavlobaSi. odesRac yvela damnaSave xom gaTavisufldeba? Cven vsaubrobT imaze, ramdenad adekvaturi iyo es sasjelebi. bunebrivia, aseTi araadekvaturi sasjelebis Sem- TxvevaSi isedac unda yofiliyo xelisuflebis mxridan ra- Raca garkveuli alternativa, imitom rom sayovelTaod cnobilia, SekrebiTobis kanoni uzrunvelyofda mcired gadacdomazec ki Zalian did sasjels, rac ar iyo samarTliani. aseve Tqven iciT, rom patimrebma cixeebSi gadaitanes usaSinlesi pirobebi. es iyo wameba, Rirse- bisSemlaxavi mopyroba da xelisuflebas, bunebrivia, valdebulebac hqonda, rom es mdgomareoba gaeTvaliswinebina da, aqedan gamomdinare, ezruna amnistiaze. rac Seexeba kriminogenuri situaciis gauaresebas, es ufro SeiZleba veZioT im SewyalebebSi, romelsac prezidenti axorcielebs. miuxedavad imisa, rom me yvela patimris gaTavisuflebis momxre var da vfiqrob, rom cixe ar aris gamosworebis erTaderTi gza da xelisufleba da saxelmwifo sxva gzebs unda eZebdes imisaTvis, rom kriminogenuri foni Semcirdes, amis miuxedavad, bunebrivia, cixe Tuki arsebobs qveyanaSi, arsebobs imisaTvis, rom iq isxdnen damnaSaveebi. Tu gadavxedavT muxlebs, ara gvarebsa da saxelebs, aramed muxlebs, romeli muxlebiTac prezidentma bolo periodSi gaa- Tavisufla adamianebi, davinaxavT, rom swored umZimesi danaSaulis Camdeni adamianebi hyavs mas Sewyalebuli. CvensaviT maT oTxi-xuTi weli ki ar moaklo, aramed 20-25 weli aqvs gareT gatanebuli, anu maT 20- 25 weli aqvT napatiebi da gaSvebuli hyavs xalxi gareT. _ es mizanmimarTulad xdeba misi mxridan fonis dasam- Zimeblad? _ diax, es aris mizanmimarTuli politikis Sedegi, Tumca, me vici, rom Sinagan saqmeTa saministro mzad aris amisaTvis da isini fiqroben, rom am problemasac daZleven, ise, rogorc sxva uamravi problemaa dasaZlevi, romelic am xelisuflebam memkvidreobad dautova rogorc qarTvel sazogadoebas, ise axal xelisuflebas. _ qalbatono nana, rac Seexeba bolo periodis politikur procesebs, Tqvenc iciT, rom axali 2013 weli aqciebiT daiwyo. mixeil saakaSvils 5 ianvars gauvida saprezidento vada da sazogadoebis sakmaod didi jgufi misi gadadgomis moTxovniT gamodis. rogor fiqrobT, ramdenad Sedegiani iqneba es aqciebi? _ sxva qveynebSic arsebobs konstitucia, romelic Tavis TavSi gulisxmobs, rom SeiZleba prezidenti iyos opoziciuri frTis warmomadgeneli, Tumca aseTi modeli Cveni qveynisTvis, aseTi politikuri situaciisTvis araswori da gaumarTlebelia. ki batono, aseTi modelic yofiliyo asatani, rom es prezidenti ar iyos qveyanaSi destruqciuli Zalis warmomadgeneli. samwuxaro realobaa is, rom dRes saakaSvili aris swored is destruqciuli Zala, romelic qveynisTvis aris saSiSi, saxelmwifosTvis aris saSiSi. aqedan gamomdinare, ra Tqma unda, araTu vadis gaxangrZliveba, aramed is vadac ki iyo Zalian mZime, ra vadaSic Cven es prezidenti unda agvetana, rogorc qveynis pirveli piri. bunebrivia, rodesac mas sakonstitucio vada amoewura, is unda yofiliyo gadamdgari da arCevnebi unda iyos daniSnuli swored im vadis amowurvisTvis da ara im droisTvis, roca is konstituciaSi pirdapir iparavs da vadebs ixangrZlivebs aTi TviT da arCevnebs niSnavs oqtomberSi. es, ra Tqma unda, arasworia. konstitucia aris qveynis uzenaesi kanoni, magram Tqven iciT, rom parlamenti iyo is organo, sadac nebismieri sigi- Jis dakanoneba SeeZloT prezidentsa da mis umravlesobas. swored aseTi sigi- Jis, gaumarTleblobisa da usamarTlobis naTeli magaliTia is vada, romelic aris daTqmuli oqtombrisaTvis.bunebrivia, sazogadoebas gauCnda absoluturad logikuri da samarTliani protesti imasTan dakavSirebiT, rom xalxma, erTi mxriv, gaakeTa ar- Cevani imasTan dakavSirebiT, rom Seicvalos xelisufleba, Seicvalos swored saakaSvilis xelisufleba. marTalia, es moxda saparlamento arCevnebze, magram Cven yvelam kargad viciT, rom es cvlileba, xalxis es ajanyeba sakuTari xelisuflebis winaaRmdeg da es ajanyeba xalxma saarCevno yu- TebTan gamoxata, gulisxmobda imas, rom gadaerCina es xelisufleba saakaSvilis TamadobiT. xalxis survili iyo, rom saakaSvili da misi reJimi xelisuflebas Camoscileboda. am arCevnebis Semdeg ki davdeqiT faqtis winaSe, rom, marTalia, parlamentSi umravlesobiT movida `qarTuli ocneba~, magram xelisuflebaSi isev darCa saakaSvili da misi mmarTveli gundi, Tanac sakmaod seriozuli ZaliT darCnen. aman ki sazogadoebis bunebrivi aRSfoTeba gamoiwvia. _ ra Sedegis momtani iqneba es aqciebi? _ ra Sedegis momtani SeiZleba iyos es aqciebi. Tu es aqciebi iqneba sworad organizebuli da dagegmili da es iqneba gaTvlili marTlac qveynis interesebze da ara romelime politikuri Zalis warmoCenaze Tu piarze, ra Tqma unda, es unda iqneba Sedegis momtani, oRond, gavimeoreb, es unda iyos sworad organizebuli da gaTvlili unda iyos qveynis interesebze. es axsnili unda iqnes aseve dasavleTisTvis, Tu ratom aris mniSvnelovani, es sakonstitucio vada dasruldes, ise, rogorc es aris konstituciaSi. is, rom prezidents moparuli aqvs aTTviani vada, swored es aris nimuSi imdroindeli parlamentis monobisa da ara sakanonmdeblo xarvezisa. unda iTqvas, rom dRes Cven ar gvinda, im monuri parlamentis mier darRveuli samarTlianoba zeimobdes da prezidenti am usamarTlod dakanonebuli vadiT agrZelebdes qveynis marTvas. aseTi moTxovnebi Tu sworad iqneba miwodebuli da iqneba moTxovnili, ra Tqma unda, namdvilad iqneba Sedegiani. xalxis es moTxovna aris swori da samarTliani. Cven yvelam kargad viciT, rom prezidenti arCeuli iyo xuTi wliT da maSin ra aris es aTTviani vada, ra periodSic saakaSvils unda qveynis marTva. axsnas imave nacionalurma moZraobam, ras niSnavs es vada da ratom unda iyos is qveynis pirveli piri, Tuki mas konstituciiT gansazRvruli aqvs xuTwliani vada. dRes saxeze gvaqvs kvazi kanoni konstituciaSi, romelic aris moklebuli azrsa da samarTlianobas. dRes am kvazi kanoniT is usamar- Tlod ixangrZlivebs Tavis vadas da es aris sazogadoebis aRSfoTebis sagani. Zalian cudia, rom dasavleTi ar iTvaliswinebs qarTveli xalxis moTxovnas da is dRevandel xelisuflebas aiZulebs, rom es usamarTloba ar iqnes daZleuli da qveyana ar gadavides samarTlian reJimSi. es Zalian cudia da, rasakvirvelia, am Sem- TxvevaSi sazogadoebis poziciis dafiqsireba aris Zalian mniSvnelovani. samwuxarod, dRevandel realobaSi es ar iqneba gadamwyveti. _ maSin ra azri aqvs am aqciebs, Tuki araferi Seicvleba? _ aqciebi, erTi mxriv, Secvlis imas, rom sazogadoeba daanaxvebs dasavleTs, romelic ase aqtiurad ereva Cvens Sida politikaSi, daanaxvebs dasavleTs, rom Cven ar gvinda, ukanonod, usamarTlod gvyavdes qveynis prezidenti. aq garkveuli Zalis demonstrireba namdvilad aris saWiro, Tumca, visac amis danaxva unda, amas dResac xedavs da, visac ar unda, rom dainaxos, arc aqciebis Semdeg dainaxavs. mTavaria, rom dRes am Zalis demonstrireba sworad moxdes, rom es saTavisod aravin gamoiyenos. _ qalbatono nana, Tqven- Tvisac cnobilia, rom am aqciebis dawyebas saakaSvilma Tavisi xuTpunqtiani iniciativa Seageba. rogor gaigeT Tqven prezidentis iniciativa? _ jer TavisTavad Cacikvla am xuTianze amazrzens xdis mis am sulelur piars. xalxs ukve SesZulda xuTiani, xuTi ricxvi, xuTpunqtiani da mas unda, rom mTeli qveyana am xuTi ricxvis irgvliv trialebdes. rodesac konstruqciul Tanam- Sromlobasa da Tanaarsebobazea saubari, upirvelesad yovlisa, es masze iyo damokidebuli da mas unda gamoeCina iniciativa. Tundac misi Sewyalebis procesi rom naxoT, ras efuZneba, rom gaiSifros es yvelaferi, kargad davinaxavT, ramdenad konstruqciuli Tanam- Sromlobisken aris gadadgmuli es nabiji. man arCevnebamde ori aTasi piri Seiwyala. romeli adamianebic mas sWirdeboda winasaarCevnod, kriminaluri situaciebis marTvisaTvis da dResac, arCevnebis Semdeg, aseve ori aTasi piri hyavs Sewyalebuli da, kacma ar icis, es oTxi aTasi adamiani risTvis unda mas, rom gamoiyenos da is gvelaparakeba konstruqciul TanamSromlobaze?! mas dasavleTis dasanaxavadac sWirdeba msgavsi gancxadebebis keTeba, Tumca, visac realobis danaxva unda, is yvelafers mSvenivrad xedavs da visac ar unda amis danaxva, verc SemdegSi dainaxavs. dRes aseTi omi atexa zogierTma <strong>saerTaSoriso</strong> eqspertma da arasamTavrobo organizaciam politpatimrebis gaTavisuflebasTan dakavSirebiT da ar interesdebian im SewyalebebiT, romelsac prezidenti axorcielebs, Tu ra kategoriis damnaSaveebi gadian gareT. amaze aranairi kiTxva ar uCndebaT im arasamTavroboebs, romlebic aseTi didi lupiT uyureben politpatimrebis sakiTxs. @)!#7 & bfydfhb7 1$ guguli maRraZe: `nacionalebisgan revanSs ar veliT~ Sorena kowowaSvili rodidan igrZnobs mosaxleoba socialuri da saxalxo biujetis sikeTeebs da gariskavs Tu ara prezidenti saakaSvili mTavrobis daTxovnas? _ am sakiTxebis irgvliv gTavazobT intervius `qarTuli ocnebis~ wevrTan, deputat guguli maRraZesTan. _ qalbatono guguli, rogor SeafasebdiT politikuri TvalsazrisiT gasul wels da raze dayrdnobiT acxadebda saparlamento umciresoba, rom `qarTul ocnebas~ winasaarCevno dapirebebis Sesruleba gauWirdeba? _ upirvelesad unda aRvniSnoT, rom 2012 weli saqarTvelos istoriaSi marTlac gardatexis da karg wlad Seva, imitom rom qarTvelma xalxma biZina ivaniSvilis meTaurobiT moaxerxa is, rac Zalian Zneli iyo Cvennair qveyanaSi, qveyanaSi, romelsac, rbilad rom vTqvaT, marTavda avtokratiuli xelisufleba. saakaSvilisxelisufleba absoluturad yvelafers akontrolebda. maT Soris Zalian didi gamocdileba hqonda arCevnebis gayalbebaSi, xalxis daSinebaSi da a.S. gaxsovT winasaarCevno periodi, faqtobrivad, bewvis xidze davdiodiT, rom rogorme arCevnebamde mivsuliyaviT da xalxs sakuTari neba gamoevlina. xalxisa da dasavleTis mzaobam arCevnebSi qarTveli xalxis gamarjveba daamtkica. rodesac quCaSi naxevar milionze meti adamiani gamovida da manifestaciebSi miiRo monawileoba, aseT dros Zalian Znelia, xalxis gverdiT ar dadage. aman gaakeTa is, rom saqarTveloSi is dro, epoqa dadga, sadac adamianebs, rogorc minimum, aqvT TavianTi azris gamoxatvis saSualeba. ase rom, 2012 wels Zalian didi movlena moxda. am movlenas mere gamarTleba marTvaSi sWirdeba. miuxedavad imisa, rom sul raRac sami Tve gavida arCevnebis Semdgom, me vityodi, rom xelisuflebis mier wardgenil biujetSi ukve Cans, rom is dapirebebi carieli sityvebi ar aris. biujeti yovelTvis aris sarke da asaxva imisa, ras ambobs politikuri Zala. rodesac nacionaluri moZraoba ambobda, Cven xalxze vzrunavTo da a.S. da minimaluri Tanxebi iyo socialur xarjebze, jandacvaze, gauqmebuli iyo jandacvis uamravi programa, igive kibos programa, aseT dros aravis sjera carieli laparakisa. biujeti aris sarke da Cveni biujeti, romlis meoTxedic jandacvasa da socialur programebze modis, es imas niSnavs, rom dapireba sruldeba. am programebis mTliani dafinanseba 2 miliards Seadgns. es adasturebs imas, rom, `qarTuli ocnebis~ dapireba, rom axali xelisufleba orientirebuli iqneboda adamianze, mis keTildReobaze, socialur dacvaze da sxva, carieli sityvebi ar aris. amas ukve biujetis cifrebi adasturebs. es aris ukve erT-erTi mTavari nabiji im valdebulebebisa Tu dapirebebis Sesrulebisa, rac `qarTulma ocnebam~ itvirTa qarTveli xalxis winaSe. _ samarTlianobis aRdgenis egidiT mimdinare procesebic araswori interpretaciiT xdeba kritikis sagani? _ is, rom samarTlianoba aRdgeba, Cven vxedavT, rom wina xelisuflebis Zalian odiozuri figurebi mxolod maSin arian dapatimrebuli, rodesac maT mimarT konkretuli da sakmarisi samxilebi arsebobs. mesmis, xandaxan sazogadoeba nawyenic ki aris imis gamo, rom SedarebiT naklebi danaSaulisTvis ibareben prokuraturaSi ama Tu im pirs, roca yvelam icis, rom wina xelisuflebas uamravi danaSauli aqvs Cadenili. es imitom xdeba, rom samarTlianobam unda izeimos da mxolod maSin miecnen adamianebi pasuxisgebaSi, roca maT winaaRmdeg saTanado mtkicebulebebi arsebobs. Tqven xedavT, rom Zalian cota adamiani iqna winaswar orTvian patimrobaSi gamwesebuli, rac wina xelisuflebis dros, praqtikulad, warmoudgeneli iyo. _ socialuri proeqtebi rodidan amoqmeddeba? _ Tebervlidan gamocxadebulia dazRvevis programis dawyeba. ukve ianvridan gaormagdeba socialuri Semweobebi, moimata pensiebma. seqtembridan pensia, SeiZleba, zafxulidanac (vnaxoT, rogor iqneba Semosavlebi biujetSi) iqneba saarsebo minimu- ufuh'tkt,f vt-% udthlpt
@)!#7 & bfydfhb7 1$ Sorena kowowaSvili uflebadamcveli gela nikolaiSvili biZina ivaniSvilis mTavrobas sakadro politikas uwunebs da miaCnia, rom Tu `qarTulma ocnebam~ is tendencia gaagrZela, romelic sakadro politikis kuTxiT dRes gaaCnia, xelisuflebis imijs seriozuli Crdili miadgeba. advokats ainteresebs, rogor moxdeba samarTlianobis aRdgena im Cinovnikebis _ prokurorebis, mosamarTleebis fonze, romlebic saakaSvilis reJims emsaxurebodnen da usamarTlobis damkvidrebiT yofil xelisuflebas Tavs awonebdnen. ra xarvezebi aqvs mTavar prokuraturas muSaobis kuTxiT, ra Secdomebs uSvebs ivaniSvilis mTavroba da saerTod, ra mimarTulebiT unda gaamaxvilos yuradReba `qar- Tulma ocnebam~, rom xalxis molodinebi gamarTldes? _ am sakiTxebis irgvliv gTavazobT intervius advokat gela nikolaiSvilTan. _ batono gela, premieri biZina ivaniSvili miiCnevs, rom saparlamento umravlesobis mier momzadebuli cvlilebebiT dReisaTvis mixeil saakaSvili beWebzea dadebuli. ukve gamoikveTa, rom saakaSvilma da misma gundma revanSze xeli aiRo? _ pirvel rigSi, vityvi, rom saakaSvilma realuri Zalaufleba anu xalxis mxardaWera didi xania dakarga. rac Seexeba kanonmdeblobaSi da konstituciaSi Cadebul naRmebs, romlebsac prezidenti ebRau- Weboda, is amas TandaTan kargavs. misi bolo Sansi iyo is, ris saSualebasac konstitucia aZlevda, rom daeTxova mTavroba, ar waredgina dasamtkiceblad, daeniSna mxolod droebiT movaleobis Semsruleblad da parlamenti TavisTvis yofiliyo. anu ifunqcionirebdnen isev merabiSvilebi, ruruebi da isev saakaSvilis gundi iqneboda mTavrobaSi, oRond movaleobis Semsruleblis saxeliT, radgan maT parlamentis damtkiceba ar sWirdebodaT. ai, swored es berketi iqneba gamoclili prezidentisTvis, rodesac miRebuli iqneba kanoni, rom presidents SeeZleba ara movaleobis Semsruleblebis daniSvna, aramed mTavrobis daniSvna. Tu mTavrobas samjer ar daumtkiceben, maSin prezidentma parlamenti unda daiTxovos da daniSnos axali saparlamento arCevnebi, razec saakaSvili, ra Tqma unda, ar wava imitom, rom axali saparlamento arCevnebis SemTxve- vaSi is xmebs ver miiRebs da SeiZleba marTlac gauWirdes 5%-iani barieris gadalaxva. _ anu swori taqtikuri svla gaakeTa ivaniSvilis gundma am sakonstitucio cvlilebebiT? _ ki, ra Tqma unda, swori gaTvlaa, miT umetes, rodesac sakonstitucio umravlesoba moipoves. rogorc acxadeben, maT ukve 100 xma aqvT. me vfiqrob, saakaSvili im sqemasac ver ganaxorcielebda, ris sa- Sualebasac kanonmdebloba aZlevda erTi ubralo mizezis gamo: prezidents rom es gaekeTebina, praqtikulad gamodioda, rom mTeli mosaxleoba iqneboda CarTuli im saprotesto moZraobaSi. vinaidan im xelisuflebis mTavrobas xalxi ver iguebda, romlis winaaRmdegac man xma misca. es saakaSvilis mxridan iqneboda faqtobrivad gadatrialebis mcdeloba. SeiZleba sakanonmdeblo doneze es ,,gapravebuliyo, magram praqtikul saqmeSi es iqneboda xalxis winaaRmdeg wasvla da amitom vfiqrob, rom am Teoriuli Sansis ganxorcielebas is ver gabedavda. vimeoreb, amas marTla mohyveboda didi mRelvareba da farTomasStabiani saprotesto gamosvla. magram am sakonstitucio cvlilebebiT es Teoriuli Sansic espoba prezidents. Tu magaliTad saakaSvili gagiJdeboda da am nabijze, rom Zalaufleba ase ZaladobiT daebrunebina, es Sansi moespo warmodgenili sakonstitucio cvlilebebiT. _ 100-dRiani periodidan gamomdinare, bevri Tavs ikavebs xelisuflebis nabijebis kritikisgan, Tumca garkveuli kuTxiT ukmayofileba mainc ismis. Tqven ras gamokveTdiT xarvezebidan? _ pirvel rigSi, xarvezs davarqmevdi imas, rom is Zveli kadrebi, romlebic Zveleburad cxovrebas da muSaobas arian miCveulebi, maTi didi nawili kvlav rCebian Zalovan uwyebebSi. es iqneba Sss Tu prokuratura. amas vabraleb im faqts, rom igive amnistiaze msjelobis dros ss ministrma RaribaSvilma faqtobrivad igive pozicia daafiqsira, rac prezidentma. es mxolod da mxolod mis saqmeSi naklebad Caxedulobis brali mgonia. amis mizezia is, rom swored is adamianebi udganan gverdiT RaribaSvils, romlebmac ganaxorcieles ukanono dapatimrebebi da damnaSaveebad gamoacxades udanaSaulo adamianebi. me mxedvelobaSi maqvs, rodesac irakli RaribaSvilma ganacxada, rom is winaaRmdegia narkotikebis gamsaReblebis da jaSu- Sebis gamoSvebis. amnistiaSi xazgasmiT aris naTqvami, rom narkotikebis gamsaReblebis gamoSvebas ar apireben. maT mxolod erTi meoTxediT umcirdebaT sasjeli. rac SeexebaT jaSuSebs, swored es meniSna, rom igive xalxi, vinc kontrdazvervisdepartamentSi iyo da dResac rCeba, swored es xalxi umtkicebs mas, rom es xalxi arian jaSuSebi. minda giTxraT, rom jaSuSebis ga- Tavisuflebis winaaRmdegi mec var. mTavari problema is aris, rom es adamianebi jaSuSebi ar arian. rogorc simon kilaZe iyo jaSuSi da fotoreportiorebi iyvnen jaSu- Sebi, ise arian enveris saqmeze dapatimrebuli pirebi jaSuSebi. sruliad udanaSaulo adamianebs aqvT Sefardebuli jaSu- Sobis braldeba. Sinagan saqmeTa ministrze didi gavlena igrZnoba im adamianebis mxridan, romlebmac es pirovnebebi jaSu- Sebad monaTla, magram dRes ukan xom ar daixeven? iqneba es kontrdazverva, prokuratura Tu sxva, radgan igive xalxi rCeba Tanamdebobebze, rom amtkicon: diax, es xalxi iyvnen jaSuSebio. aseTi magali- Tebi bevria. _ Tqven sakadro politikis problema gamokveTeT. advokatebi Civian, rom sasamarTlo procesze gamosuli prokurorebi faqtobrivad igive politikas atareben, rac xdeboda wina xelisuflebis dros. es xom asustebs axal xelisuflebas, ratom ver Seelia xelisufleba Zvel kadrebs? _ ra Tqma unda, asustebs. sxva- Ta Soris, weRan vsaubrobdiT Zveli advokatebi, visac kargad axsovs gamsaxurdias periodi. gamsaxurdia daRupa swored iman, rom gamoacxada _ komunistebis period- Si momuSave prokurorebi Tu milicielebi axla arian erovnuli xelisuflebis prokurorebi da milicielebio, anu gakeTilSobildneno. zustad amas acxadebs `qar- Tuli ocnebac~. is adamianebi, vinc emsaxurebodnen Zvel reJims sastiki meTodebiT da xSirad Semoqmedni iyvnen am reJimis, dRes Turme gake- TilSobildnen. me amis ar mjera. me ar vambob, rom gamonaklisebi ar SeiZleba iyos, magram masobrivad ar SeiZleboda am adamianebis datoveba TavianT Tanamdebobebze, es swored ar mimaCnia. vfiqrob, es problema sakmaod mwvaved daudgeba adre Tu gvian am xelisuflebas, vinaidan maTi umravlesoba vinc dar- Ca, arian swored saakaSvilis reJimis Semoqmedebi. imitom, rom adeiSvilis prokuraturis da vano merabiSvilis policiis pirobebSi, rac ar unda Sinaganad patiosani yofiliyo adamiani, gauWirdeboda Sinagani wesierebis SenarCuneba, rom im sibinZureSi ar CaTreuliyo, rasac maT avalebdnen. vimeoreb, SeiZleba gamonaklisebi iyvnen, magram uceb rom yvela angelozi gaxda, me amis ar mjera. es am xelisuflebas, adre Tu gvian, win daxvdeba. _ saakaSvilis xelisuflebis kritikisas araerTi prokuroris da mosamarTlis danaSaulebriv gadawyvetilebebze saubrobdnen advokatebi, politikosebi. dRemde arc erTi msgavsi pirovnebis mimarT ar gamokveTila xelisuflebis pozicia, anu ar dasjilan usamarTlobis Camdeni mosamarTleni da prokurorebi. es ukve seriozuli problemaa? _ aris, ra Tqma unda. me, piradad, amas Zalian uxeS Secdomad vTvli. Tu Cven vacxadebT, rom wina xelisuflebisTvis adamiani iyo ara mizani, aramed miznis miRwevis saSualeba da es marTlac ase iyo, dRes am xelisuflebisTvis Tu adamiani aris mizani da mTavaria misi keTildReoba da samarTlianoba da Tu politikis samizned centrSi swored adamiani da misi keTildReoba idges, im reJims morgebuli adamianebisTvis, romlebsac Tavisuflad SeeZloT gvamebi SemoedoT maRaziis Tavze da araerTi danaSauli daebralebinaT udanaSaulo adamianebisTvis, aseTi adamianebi TavianTi moqmedebis qvakuTxedad adamianis uflebebis dacvas ver gaixdian. amitom me moqmedi Cinovnikebis 80-90%s ki ar davtovebdi, aramed 20%-s, isic qveda rgolSi da mkacri gadarCevis Semdeg. uamravi SemTxvevaa, rodesac adamianis bediT da adamianis sicocxliT manipulireb- gjkbnbrf gjkbnbrf gela nikolaiSvili: `kbilaSvili Zveli prokurorebisgan unda gaTavisufldes!~ lfcfo.bcb vt-$ udthlpt mis Sesabamisi. me vfiqrob, saqar- Tvelos mosaxleoba yvelafers kargad xedavs da es ar SeiZleba, ar dainaxo, radgan xelisufleba yvelafers akeTebs, rom socialurad orientirebuli biujeti iyos. xelisufleba Zalian realisturia da dapirebebic Sesabamisi aqvs, imitom rom TviTon batoni biZina aris Zalian realisturi adamiani da arasdros ambobs imas, rasac ar gaakeTebs. rodesac raRac aris xolme iseTi naTqvami, yovelTvis ambobs, ratom da risTvis iTqva. mimaCnia, rom saqarTvelos mosaxleoba Zalian sworad reagirebs imaze, rac qveyanaSi xdeba. _ rac Seexeba umravlesobisa da umciresobis urTierTobas, nor- malur CarCoebSia moqceuli e.w. kohabitaciis procesi da sakonstitucio cvlilebebi? _ umciresobis movaleobaa, rac SeiZleba meti kritika gamoTqvas, magram am umciresobas aqvs, ase vTqvaT, is didi nakli, rom isini verasdros gaxdebian sando opozicia, imitom rom Cven gvaxsovs opoziciebi, romelic xalxisgan ikvebebodnen. is opoziciebi iyo sando xalxisTvis. ara mgonia, nacionalur moZraobas hqondes sazogadoebaSi ndobis is 10-12%, romelic gamokvlevebiT fiqsirdeba. amitom xelisuflebaSi myofi `qar- Tuli ocneba~ konstituciiT prezidents imaze met uflebebs aZlevs, vidre mas aqvs. kerZod, mas SeuZlia, nebismier dros daiTxovos parlamenti da mTavroba. Tum- ca konstituciaSi Cndeba mniSvnelovani Canaweri _ xalxma unda gadawyvitos es. xalxma gadawyvita da airCia es parlamenti da parlamentma ndoba misca am mTavrobas. Tuki parlamentis daTxovna iqneba, axlandelma mTavrobam unda Caataros arCevnebi. magram arCevnebSi gamarjvebuli politikuri Zala airCevs axal mTavrobas. rogorc batonma biZinam Tqva, xalxs unda vkiTxoT, rogori arCevani unda. es ukve Zalian swor kalapotSi agdebs sakonstitucio process. iciT, rom konstitucia Zalian damaxinjebuli iyo. warmoidgineT, parlaments irCevs xalxi da am parlaments, konstituciis mixedviT, aranairi ufleba ar aqvs arc mTavrobaze da arc araferze. dRemde arsebuli konstituciis mixedviT, 5 dnen imisaTvis, rom reJimis- Tvis Tavi moewonebinaT da dakveTebi SeesrulebinaT. _ dabolos, araerT gaxmaurebul saqmeze elodeba sazogadoeba axali xelisuflebis verdiqts. igive vazagaSvilis da sxva saqmeebic faqtobrivad gamoZiebulia, Tqveni azriT, ratom agvianebs prokuratura saboloo daskvnis gamocxadebas? _ zustad es pretenzia maqvs mec. Tumca mesmis, rom amas ramdenime axsna SeiZleba hqondes. erTi is, rom eseni Zveli meTodebiT, wamebis gziT Cvenebis gamoZalvaze aRar muSaoben. maqsimalurad undaT mtkicebulebebi kanonis sruli dacviT moipovon. magram rodesac xedav adamiani, rom aSkarad igive Tundac baCo axalaias, megis qardavas winaaRmdeg, bevri sxva odiozuri figuris winaaRmdeg iseTi saSineli Cvenebebi, rac piradad me vici Cemi patimrebisgan da kolegebisgan, adamianebi gancxadebebs weren da eubnebian prokuraturas dagvkiTxeTo. zogs kiTxaven kidec zereled, dagvianebiT. ratom ar ideba es Cvenebebi da mtkicebulebebi maT saqmeebSi? vimeoreb, es aris saSineli Cvenebebi da is braldebebi, risTvisac saakaSvilis odiozuri figurebi daapatimres, iavnanasaviT gamoiyureba am CvenebebTan SedarebiT. realuri faqtebi arsebobs da ratom amas ar uyeneben braldebad da ratom ar Cqaroben, rom es mZime mxareebi gamokveTon maTi braldebis saqmeSi, es CemTvis sruliad gaugebaria. ar vici amis mizezi Zveli prokurorebi arian, romlebsac undaT Tavi gadairCinon, rom ar moyvnen am samarTlianobis aRdgenis wnexSi. vici, rom prokuraturaSi 24-saaTiani muSaoba aris, magram Tu kadrebi ar yofniT unda daamaton. xalxma am xelisuflebas swored samarTlianobis aRdgenisTvis misca xma, magram xalxma es Tu ar dainaxa, mxolod pensiis momateba sakmarisi ar aris. Tu am mTavar mimarTulebaSi xelisuflebam waiforTxila, xalxis mxardaWeras da ndobas dakargavs. _ anu mTavarma prokurorma kbilaSvilma ufro aqtiurad unda imoqmedos, rom ivaniSvilis imiji ar Selaxos? _ diax, kbilaSvilma da mTlianad am sistemam. naklebi ndoba unda gamoucxadon Zvel kadrebs, gacilebiT Tamamad daawinauron axali kadrebi, romlebic udavod arseboben. diax, maqsimalurad unda moxdes kadrebis gadaxaliseba da muSaobac ufro aqtiuri unda iyos. guguli maRraZe: `nacionalebisgan revanSs ar veliT~ romelic saakaSvilma Tavis Tavze moirgo, parlamenti aris araferi, nuli. albaT, imitomac gadaagdo prezidentma parlamenti quTaisSi. warmoidgineT, parlaments irCevs xalxi, magram prezidenti niSnavs mTavrobas _ visac unda imas da roca unda, maSin gamocvlis. parlamenti daeTanxmeba Tu ara prezidents, mas SeuZlia, is mTavroba hyavdes, romelic mas unda. es konstitucia ar iyo samarTliani. aba, ratom irCevs xalxi parlaments?! mTavrobas ndoba xalxis mier arCeulma parlamentma unda misces. Cven swored es xarvezi gamovasworeT. faqtobrivad, amiT vaCveneT, rom Cven gvinda, qveyanaSi normaluri da jansaRi procesebi iyos. am nabijiT sazogadoebaSi movspeT im Si- Sis safuZveli, rom ambobdnen, prezidenti daiTxovs parlaments da a.S. mas amis ufleba ukve aRar aqvs. _ ra Sansebi darCaT nacionalebs? _ erTaderTi Sansi aris is, rom Tu ufro konstruqciulni da Tavmdablebi iqnebian, SeinarCunon sakuTari Tavi, rogorc opozicia, parlamentSi. _ anu, qalbatono guguli, saakaSvilis gundis mxridan revanSis safrTxe ukve gamoiricxa? _ gamoiricxa, imitom rom maT ukve aRaranairi iaraRi aRar aqvT am revanSistuli miznebis gansaxorcieleblad. isini 10 000-ian amboxs ver moawyoben. maT amis Zalac aRar aqvT. erTaderTi, darCaT is, rom gamovidnen da xelisufleba akritikon. am wuTSi realuri Zala maT ukve aRar aqvT.
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