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#22 (206), 9-15.V, 2012 w.<br />
saerTo gazeTi<br />
23<br />
interviu gldanis iveriis<br />
yovlawminda RvTismSoblis<br />
taZris winamZRvarTan mama basil<br />
mkalaviSvilTan<br />
_ mamao basil, sakmao dro<br />
gavida Tqveni gamomafxizlebeli<br />
sityvebi ar gvixilavs presis<br />
furclebze, ras gvetyodiT<br />
axals?<br />
_ saxeliTa mamisaTa da ZisaTa<br />
da sulisa wmindisaTa,<br />
CvenTan ars RmerTi.<br />
minda giTxraT, erTi wuTiT<br />
yuradReba ar momidunebia qveyanaSi<br />
mimdinare movlenebTan dakavSirebiT,<br />
Cemi fiqri da goneba<br />
gamudmebiT mas dastrialebs,<br />
mxolod amJamad dakavebuli viyavi<br />
eklesiis ezos keTilmowyobiT.<br />
_ im braldebasTan dakavSirebiT,<br />
ris gamoc Tqven wlebis<br />
ganmavlobaSi satusaRoSi imyofebodiT,<br />
dResac azrTa sxvadasxvaobaa,<br />
zogierTi religiebis<br />
Semwynareblobasac qadagebs.<br />
_ risTvis momisajes 6 weli.<br />
iqneb imisTvis, rom bokerias<br />
suraTebi davwviT parlamentis<br />
Senobis win, vebrZodiT antiqristes<br />
mociqulebs _ Tavisuflebis<br />
institutis mesveurebs.<br />
me xom maTi piradi patimari<br />
viyavi? asea dResac. vinc<br />
ar moswonT _ yvelas iWeren da<br />
cixeSi gzavnian.<br />
dRes religiis sakiTxSi<br />
mTel msoflioSi marTlac qaosia.<br />
yoveldRiurad iqmneba<br />
axal-axali religiuri dajgufebebi.<br />
Tugind aviRoT `ieRovelebis~<br />
mimdevrebi. rogor<br />
SeiZleba maT endos kaci. es<br />
seqta viRac TaRliTma vaWarma<br />
raselma Camoayaliba, romelmac<br />
gamosca Jurnali, sadac Tavis<br />
produqcias reklamas ukeTebda.<br />
bolos es pirovneba aferistobisTvis<br />
cixeSi Casves.<br />
dRes ki ieRovelebi rasels<br />
TavianT RmerTad Tvlian.<br />
ieRovelebi acxadeben, rom<br />
Turme saqarTveloSi qristianoba<br />
XX saukuneSi Semosula.<br />
pirveli ieRoveli saqarTveloSi<br />
1953 wels fiqsirdeba.<br />
zRvari aqvT magaT mkrexelobas?<br />
ver amixsnia, sapatriarqos<br />
warmomadgenlebi xmas ratom ar<br />
iReben. swored maTi valia atexon<br />
gangaSi.<br />
me, Cemi gasakeTebeli wlebis<br />
win gavakeTe. SevaCere ieRovelebisa<br />
da sxva seqtebis gamravleba<br />
da TareSi. amjerad ukve<br />
asakovani var da sakmaod<br />
avadmyofi. advili ar iyo CemTvis<br />
5 weli cixeSi yofna. iqedan<br />
TiTqmis dauZlurebuli gamovedi.<br />
miuxedavad amisa, presi-<br />
Ta Tu internetiT vebrZvi yovelgvar<br />
usamarTlobas.<br />
_ mamao, ar dagvaviwydes,<br />
rom sapatriarqos sasuliero<br />
pirni xSirad akeTeben gancxadebebs<br />
usamarTlobis winaaRmdeg.<br />
ixileT `saerTo gazeTi~<br />
internetSi<br />
www.saertogazeti.ge<br />
SemogvierTdiT FACEBOOK-ze<br />
es iyo gamafrTxilebeli miwisZvra, romelic<br />
migvaniSnebs, rom Tu isev gaagrZeleben RvTis<br />
sawinaaRmdego qmedebebs, Sedegic ar daayovnebs<br />
visac surs iveriis RmrTismSoblis xatis namdvili asli naxos,<br />
mobrZandiT Cvens eklesiaSi da naxeT misi namdvili saxe<br />
_ TiTqmis yvela sasuliero<br />
pirTa interviuebs vkiTxulob.<br />
samwuxarod, imaTgan Zalian<br />
mciredni arian, vinc xmas imaRlebs<br />
arsebul saSinelebaTa winaaRmdeg.<br />
amas winaT wavikiTxe<br />
mRvdel zaqaria ZinZibaZis interviu.<br />
is acxadebs: `licenzia<br />
maqvs, romlis mixedviTac, fizikaze<br />
dayrdnobiT, SesaZlebelia<br />
miwisZvris zusti prognozireba.<br />
licenzirebuli maqvs<br />
cunamis SeCerebis saSualebao~..<br />
Se kai dedmamiSvilo, Tu ise-<br />
Ti Zala gaqvs, rom cunamis SeCereba<br />
SegiZlia, SeaCere pirvel<br />
rigSi, marTlmadideblobis mtrebi<br />
da is usamarTlo movlenebi,<br />
romelic saqarTveloSi xdeba.<br />
_ mamao, yvelasTvis cnobilia,<br />
lagodexSi deda RmrTism-<br />
Sobeli tiris.<br />
_ maSin, roca qveyanas<br />
uWirs da gansacdelSia, xsna<br />
ar Cans, xatebi winaswar amcneben<br />
cremldeniT, an sisxlis<br />
deniT. deda RmrTisa rogor iqneba<br />
dawynarebuli, roca misi<br />
wilxvedri qveyana marTlac<br />
gansacdelSia? amitom, bunebrivia,<br />
kargs arafers migvaniSnebs<br />
yovelive es.<br />
_ Tqvens eklesias Tqven ratom<br />
uwodeT maincdamainc iveriis<br />
RmrTismSoblis saxeli?<br />
_ 2000 wels, saswaulebrivad,<br />
yovelgvari sabuTis gareSe<br />
movxvdi aTonis mTaze. sami<br />
dRis ganmavlobaSi vevedrebodi<br />
iveriis RmrTismSoblis xats<br />
saqarTvelos gadarCenas. Sevpirdi,<br />
roca davbrundebodi,<br />
mis saxelze avaSenebdi eklesias.<br />
roca daCoqili vloculobdi,<br />
vgrZnobdi, rom qristes meored<br />
mosvlis win es xati saqarTveloSi<br />
CamobrZandeboda da<br />
damkvidrdeboda im taZarSi,<br />
romlis aSenebasac me vapirebdi.<br />
amas Tavis droze adasturebda<br />
beri gabrieli. roca mas eki-<br />
Txebodnen, romel taZarSi damkvidrdeboda<br />
iveriis RmrTism-<br />
Soblis xati saqarTveloSi<br />
dabrunebisas, is yovelTvis pasuxobda:<br />
is eklesia jer aSenebuli<br />
ar aris da mas aaSenebs<br />
morwmuneTa patara jgufio. axla<br />
vxvdebi, maSin Cems taZarze<br />
iyo saubari, romelic marTlac<br />
mrevlis mciredi SemowirulobiT<br />
aSenda. es sapatriarqom<br />
mSvenivrad icis da swored amitom<br />
daiwyes paralelurad maxaTas<br />
mTaze iveriis RmrTism-<br />
Soblis saxelze taZris mSenebloba,<br />
romelsac, albaT, aramarTlmadidebelTa<br />
mier Sewiruli<br />
milionebi aaSenebs.<br />
minda xalxma gaigos,<br />
rom iveriis Rmr-<br />
TismSoblis xatis namdvili<br />
asli me CamovabrZane<br />
aTonis mTidan.<br />
is, romelic berZnebma<br />
gamougzavnes sapatriarqos<br />
1989 wels<br />
da saerTo araferi<br />
aqvs iveriis RmrTism-<br />
Soblis xatebTan. roca<br />
maxaTas mTaze sa-<br />
Zirkveli akurTxes, iq<br />
miabrZanes milanis<br />
RmrTismSoblis xatis<br />
asli.<br />
visac surs iveriis<br />
RmrTismSoblis xatis<br />
namdvili asli naxos,<br />
mobrZandiT Cvens eklesiaSi<br />
da naxeT misi<br />
namdvili saxe.<br />
_ mama basil, mosaxleobas<br />
ebadeba kiTxva eleqtropasportebTan<br />
dakavSirebiT, aseve CipebTan<br />
mimarTebaSi. Tu yovelive<br />
es antiqristes wina periodia,<br />
elias da enuqis mosvliT<br />
ra unda gvemcnoso?<br />
_ metad saintereso kiTxvaa.<br />
es sakiTxi sapatriarqos mosagvarebelia.<br />
magaliTad, saberZneTSi<br />
pasportebTan dakavSirebiT<br />
sapatriarqom oficialuri<br />
moTxovna gaakeTa xelisuflebasTan.<br />
Cvens SemTxvevaSi piriqiTaa,<br />
xelisufleba marTavs sapatriarqos.<br />
rac Seexeba eliasa da enuqis<br />
mosvlas. ioane naTlismcemeli<br />
mogvevlina, raTa gza ganemzadebina<br />
uflis mosvlisaTvis.<br />
eliasa da enuqis gamoCena<br />
ki imis momaswavebelia, rom<br />
uflis meored mobrZaneba moaxlebul<br />
ars da isinic gzas umzadeben<br />
ufals TumcaRa sanam<br />
mobrZandeba, mravalni movlen<br />
keTili angelozis saxiT da<br />
TviT uflis saxiT da isini<br />
saswaulebs moaxdenen. wminda<br />
werili gvamcnebs _ bolo Jams<br />
rCeulnic Secdebiano. amitom<br />
unda viyvneT fxizlad, raTa ar<br />
gavebaT maT sacecebSi.<br />
_ momravlda gasarTobi sanaxaobani,<br />
sadac sasuliero pirni<br />
wina rigebSi sxedan, es xom<br />
ar aris is `sacecebi~, romleb-<br />
Sic TviT RvTismsaxurnic ki<br />
ebmebian?<br />
_ sjulis kanoni gvaswavlis,<br />
rom, roca saero Teatraluri<br />
warmodgenebi daiwyeba,<br />
sasuliero pirni unda gaecalon<br />
iqaurobas. sapatriarqos<br />
warmomadgenelTa mimarTebaSi<br />
ki sul sxvagvarad aris saqme.<br />
amas winaT baTumSi dadgmul<br />
mkrexelur `qeTo da kotes~<br />
warmodgenaze wina rigSi isxdnen<br />
da aplodismentebiTac ajildoebdnen<br />
egzaltirebul, zRvars<br />
gadasul msaxiobebs.<br />
dRes eklesia swyalobs msaxiobebs.<br />
arian iseTebic, romlebic<br />
Zalian axlo, saeWvo urTierTobaSi<br />
imyofebian sasuliero<br />
pirebTan. es cota rTuli<br />
sakiTxia. aseve, aRsarebis saidumloc.<br />
aravin icis, vin ra<br />
moinania da rogor. modiT, gansasjelad<br />
es uzenaess mivandoT,<br />
romelic yvelas gulis<br />
nadebis ganmxilvelia.<br />
rusTavelis Teatridan batoni<br />
robert sturua gaagdes,<br />
raTa warmoedginaT sazogadoebisTvis<br />
is mkrexeluri dadgmebi,<br />
romelic miuRebelia marTlmadidebelTaTvis.<br />
SeiZleba<br />
adamians guli gauskdes, imdeni<br />
uzneoba moedineba cxovrebis<br />
yvela sferodan. yovelTvis vimeoreb<br />
da axlac vityvi, sapatriarqo<br />
yvelaferze dums, rac<br />
niSnavs, rom TanaugrZnobs maT.<br />
minda gamcnoT kidev erTi<br />
RmrTissawinaaRmdego qmedeba.<br />
faqtobrivi prezidenti mixeil<br />
saakaSvili xom yvelafers religiisa<br />
da marTlmadideblobis<br />
winaaRmdeg Cadis. 6 maiss wmida<br />
giorgis xsenebis dResaswaulze<br />
man baTumSi gaxsna viRac arabi<br />
Seixis saxelobis parki. swored<br />
amitom iyo RmerTma ar daayovna,<br />
meore dResve moxda gamafrTxilebeli<br />
miwisZvra, romelic<br />
migvaniSnebs, rom<br />
vinc RmrTis sawinaaRmdego<br />
nabijebs gadadgams,<br />
ar gvapatiebs da<br />
sasjelsac mogvagebs.<br />
_ dRes RvTismsaxurnic wyevlian<br />
urjuloebas. ramdenad<br />
marTebulia mRvdlis wyevla?<br />
es codva ar aris?<br />
_ Tqven gainteresebT ramdenad<br />
gamarTlebulia eklesiurad<br />
e.w. wyevla. adamians yvela<br />
codva mieteveba, garda suliwmidis<br />
gmobisa. vinaidan dRevandeli<br />
xelisufleba TavianTi<br />
qmedebiT suliwmidis mgmobelebi<br />
arian. zogierTi beri isea<br />
SeZrwunebuli umsgavso yofierebiT,<br />
warmosTqvamen wyevlis<br />
sityvebs.<br />
_ mamao, verafriT dagvamSvidebT?<br />
_ samwuxarod, jerjerobiT<br />
verafriT dagamSvidebT.<br />
saakaSvilis mosvla daiwyo<br />
Cveni eklesiis darbeviT. maSin<br />
qarTveli xalxi dumda da dRes<br />
am xelisuflebis mware maTraxi<br />
TiTqmis yvelas moxvda. amitom<br />
xalxi ukve aRaravis endoba,<br />
miuxedavad amisa, gpirdebiT<br />
_ es mZime, ekliani, jvarcmis<br />
gza qarTvel ers gasavleli<br />
aqvs, radgan swored amas mohyveba<br />
bolo Jams iveriis gabrwyineba.<br />
es aucileblad moxdeba.<br />
iranda kalandaZe
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